Snitch w/ Hakeem Kae-Kazim

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done.

Done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast on kerk Blank.

I sound like a newscaster and I.

Could do it too, And I'm Liza Traeger and today we're going to be talking about Law and Order SVU, the crimes that they're based on, and a guest from the episode.

But first, weather is Okay, what's up. It's been a big week. I feel like you've.

Been out in the Basketbler.

I just don't remember anything of her at all at any times.

I don't know.

I know, whenever we get together, I'm always like, what have I been doing?

I know I've been doing things. What have I been doing?

I don't know what date it is, what day it is, I'm just no, but yeah, it's been it's been good.

Well, I guess, I don't know.

I don't want to start on this negative of a note, but my algorithm's feeding it to me and I keep skipping it. I refuse to watch it. I refuse. I know it's gonna make me mad.

So is it key?

Is it the Chief Sky? Yeah, it's the Chief Sky. I knew it that. We've already had a bunch of people message us about it.

But I wonder if it wasn't for Taylor dating a chief, would we even know about this? Or is the speech so egregious it would have spread? But he also mentions Taylor in it. He says my teammate's girlfriend or something like that.

Well, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

Like, if it wasn't the tailor connect, would we know about this man?

Probably not? Would we hear about the speech?

Or was the speech egregious enough to tell college actually they should be homemakers?

Yes, I think so. I think it would have gone semiviral. But the Tailor's definitely posish the ball.

I mean, the dis it's so discussed.

That's why the algorithm every other explore thing is like, don't you want to watch this? And I'm like, I do not want to watch this? Yeah, I refuse to watch it.

Yeah, it was definitely on my list of things to talk about with you today, but you beat me to the punch.

Yeah.

He seems like a absolute clown, like a moron, like talking about like murdering unborn babies like a like a just a full moron, Like I don't know.

He came to like just make some points that have nothing to do with inspiring graduates except to be biggots like I don't and to tell women don't use your degree, like I just don't know it. I don't get it. And the NFL, well, I saw a tweet that was like I love that Colin Kaepernick blackballed forever, kicked out of the league, like truly fucked over forever because of his beliefs. And yet this motherfucker could keep on kicking right right, Did the NFL not want to check his speech?

Believe it's called Benedictine or something like that.

Let me like because I went to an evalangelical Christian college surprise to those who might have forgotten. But there were girls there that were planning on like they would get married while they were in school. No plans to do anything but like make children, and yeah, and I think a lot of them fifteen twenty years later are really feeling the weight of their mistakes. Yeah, marrying a douche lord at twenty two, I don't know if that guarantees a great life.

Having kids right out of college. I mean, yes, go do that if you want, do that, if you want, Like, more power to you. Some people want to be young moms, and I get.

That, but there's no choice here.

This is what this person is saying at the commencement speech, which the best thing you can do is wash my clothes, cook my dinner, and raise my kids while I fulfill my dreams. That and so that's what I mean. Like all these religious girls, like you're indoctrinated, you're going to this school. You marry this guy who's been taught he's the center of the universe and only he, and he matters, Like there's no way if you grow at all or see the world, you could just stay sheltered and want it.

I mean, it's like it's.

Crazy all of a success was made possible because a girl I met in banned class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all homemaker.

Just get out of my fucking feed, dude. I but that's what's crazy too.

It's like so saying out loud, and with most men, they would not have any of the things they have if it wasn't for a woman doing unpaid labor for you. And yet they devalue want to take all right, so like they do not value you, yet they still admit they can't have a life without you, Like I do not understand it.

Yeah, oh a goes.

My wife would tell you that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and a mother.

This is just not it's just you are for a college, this is for a church.

This is a sermon, this is not this is not for college graduates.

Yeah, yeah, it's just it's kind of mind blowing. It feels like this is a college speech from like nineteen forty, Like it's just really wild.

But that's what we're doing. We're living in a aggressive society. We are seeing society regress, like we just are We're losing.

He says to them, I bet you guys are all some of you could go on to be successful in your careers, but I bet you're all the most excited about marriage and kids. And it's like, fuck off, Like it's just so gross to just reduce women.

To that that's all they are to guys like that graduate. Yes, it's like it's the wrong place. Yeah, but it is.

I mean, I don't know what bet Benedictine College is, but I'm going to go ahead and guess it's a very faith based college. And uh, like I'm sure they were like thrilled for him to say all this shit. It says it's a private liberal arts college. I guess liberal arts is used loosely.

Yeah. Oh, it says it's a Catholic. It's a Catholic liberal arts college.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, we got a Catholic Yeah. Sorry the first Uh it's in Kansas. Yeah, I don't know, it's it's bullshit.

But and it's like, you're a fucking kicker. I just hope the worst for him, I really do. Yeah, because at the end of the day. All of these women, if anything happens to you, they're not going to be there for you, right, They're not going to be there through your illness or through changes, or when you're depressed and don't want to clean. Like they are into you for a service that you are providing. They are entitled to Yeah, they are entitled to this. They're not like, wow,

Gonna say, if like the wife gets sick, the wife gets like depressed and can't keep up with her you know, household duties, Let's see how long these kind of dudes stick around. But wait, I wanted to bring up this wild thing that I saw.

Did you hear? Because I'm I don't need to start my day in a rage. Well I've just been.

I saw this thing about how two beauty queens have recently resigned.

I don't know if you've seen any of this. No, no, not at all, but okay, So.

Yeah, Taylor was in Paris, so that was a lot, and and vander Pump reunion and like summerhow it's like my explore page is Bravo and Taylor. I don't know these beauty queens, and I don't know say snuck in that speech, but well so.

This woman stepped down as Miss USA twenty twenty three, and then really quickly after this other girl stepped down as I'm sorry, Miss teen USA, and everybody's like, what's going on? But Miss USA released a statement, and pageant fans discovered that if you look at the first letter of every word in her statement, it spells out I am silenced, which I thought was very SVU, very like

Does the mom are speaking out the moment? Yeah, nightmare totally.

And it's like that, I guess it's them all within the Miss Universe organization. And like one the miss teens said, my personal value is no longer fully aligned with the direction of the organization. But then this girl, like that's pretty coincident, coincidental if that's not a hidden message like that way she is, you know, so.

Cloaked under silence. No, this is like legit. I can't. I mean, I want to read all of this right now.

I know they basically I mean, i'll uh, I'll put like the Today Show article in the show notes for today's episode if we still can, Casey and you guys can like read about this. But it is like a wild I just was like, wow, this is like a movie, like what's happening? A code in an Instagram caption? That's I mean, it's also it's also very tailor uh with.

I feel like she leaves codes. Who knew?

And now I guess I guess from far away, I guess we could have known there might be some issues with yes, the beaut an industry, if you were listening to this and you did not get tickets to my Netflix taping Saturday the twenty fifth, I'm doing a show at five pm, which I don't know if that makes you feel good or bad, but it's at it.

It is at five at Union Hall in Brooklyn, all right?

And then is there any chance of anybody coming to your tapings?

Are there gonna be door seats? Are there gonna be any released? Yeah, there's gonna be some release.

I believe, like we have to figure out the production, how it's going to look with the cameras and get into the space more one more time because we have to kill certain seats and once that's solidified, we'll be able to release more or not.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, got it, got it. So stay tuned. You still might have a chance. Yeah. Wait.

Also, one of our listeners, Aresley who I who We Love, we mentioned last week. She's getting back, she's getting mentions. She sent me this interview with gold Have you seen it before? It's this interview with Goldiehan talking about Death Becomes Her and she gives me She says they shot a different ending for Death Becomes Her and that it like didn't test well or something, and so they shot the one that we.

See, so like, was it okay? So like, if you've.

Seen Death Becomes Her, you know the end of it is at they're at Bruce Willis's funeral. They look crazy, like their faces have been all fucked up because they've had all this like work done and they've been spackling themselves together, but they can't die. And then at the end they're fighting and they fall down these stairs and they fall into like a million pieces, but they're still alive.

I want to see it.

I'm like, I'm it honestly drives me crazy that I know about this now, but I think that the comment is still the same. Yeah, like either way they're suffering.

Yes, yes that's true, But I just think the other one, I guess was like it's like a little bit more of like a subtle thing because it's like, oh, they still look great, they still look young.

Wow.

But then it's like, but what's that like when everybody you know, you're gonna watch everybody you know die forever, like and just be with this one other person who's like your nemesis.

Maybe Isabella Rossellini for sure.

That would have been haunting, and they could have they probably shot across. I mean, they have to release it. I know they need to release it. We need to start a campaign.

Like yeah, I said it to my friend Alan. I was like, have you seen this? He was like yes, Oh my god. And can I tell you that? I got Death Becomes Her earrings? What are they? Are they the potion bottle?

No, it's it's a photo of the two of them and it's shaped as them.

I bought it on my block. Love That Love That.

Jared got me a DVD of that at Dwayne Read Once. I'm obsessed.

They also had earrings that were the Wet bandits ooh, and some other I don't remember the other things. But they had some fun, some fun, some fun. Ways to well, I have huge news for everyone listening. Well, you know, I saw my business manager and we did the whole pie chart, breakdown, plans, little everything, and then he goes and we really have no problem with your spending.

You go, there's no cause for concern. It's fine.

Really, Yeah, they go, this one average is high, but that's the tailor tickets and he's like, I don't think that'll be happening again.

And mon yeah and that was that amazing. Congratulations.

Yeah, so I can keep getting my little drinks and doing my classes and uh, it's a thrill.

That's amazing, gongras.

Because I feel like people act and I act like I am just so irresponsible and it's so great to have a full blown professional with all of the.

Map keeping an eye. You're actually fine.

Way, I talked about the Starbucks thing on this last week, right, yes the audience.

Well I had it. Oh yes, the boba inspired drink.

Yeah, it's berry with raspb It tastes like a melted popsicle, okay to see Yeah no, non no, I melted popsicle with not too sweet. But I wouldn't get it again. But I was like, I didn't finish it, but then I got really high, and then I didn't realize what was happening. But then I was just sucking up the leftover boba one by one. But I was with someone who just watched me for probably ten minutes in silence,

But are they the kind you were telling me about the ones that pop?

It was and I liked them, and you know what, I'm thinking, like, what if I get a pineapple refresher and ask for the raspberry boat popping boba things they have with the pearls because it's the berry that doesn't really do it for me, So.

Just stick a little scoop of the pearls in.

I bet they could do that. Yeah, we'll see. I'm gonna try that next time.

But congrats. I hope it's a hit.

Me saying okay, let's I think we should. We can get started, but like, uh, do you have more dates coming up? I mean, oh, I do.

I'm gonna be in New Orleans June seventh and eighth, and then I'm gonna be in Kansas City June fourteen, fifteen, sixteen and then that's.

That amazing a while.

Yeah, so you can go to That's messed up live dot com that has the Liza's website link that takes you to all her ticket links. It also has our merch link Babies, you can get some of our merch that's up and you can also find our promo code link that is up there and that leads to all of our promo codes for our ads. In case you guys aren't shopping for birthdays, weddings, any occasions, we have lots of stuff that we have promo codes for.

We want you guys to save and.

And thank you for all the attention for our hit reel slash TikTok.

If you have If you guys have idea of scenes that you think would be funny yeah to do for our TikTok and our insta, we are down, so like, send us your suggestions of we obviously like to do some of the campier scenes, so send them send them our way.

I think, yeah, please, not a horrific yeah, I don't want to do?

Like, ah, should we do?

You're a nine year old girl? You're describing your attack like I don't want that? Should we do? Avatar you're so old? Should we do that? Or turn on the sun? Turn on this s turn on the sun?

All right, my god, this is exciting. We're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into it. Okay, we're starting the episode Enjoy, Enjoy. Okay, So we're gonna do the episode Snitch, which I honestly can't believe it took till season nine to have a snitch titled episode.

That's a quick, simple word. Yes, and I'm going to get into more about where it comes from.

Ooh, okay, I love that origin story of Snitch. Okay, so this came out in two thousand and seven. We open up on some eco friends of New York and they're going to clean up the East River and there's a dork trying to pick up another volunteer who catches on and is like, do you ask out all the volunteers?

He also asked her out to sushi.

Which in front of a body of water filled with garbage is kind of an lol.

Also, it's like, I love how this show is like, even if you volunteer and you have a kind heart, someone is still going to hit on you unwantedly, Like you are going to still feel the advances of Dorky Men because they've done multiple episodes where people are cleaning shit up and some guys like, anyway you want to hang out after this? Like it's like, can we not just be charitable and not have to do no?

Because I feel like that when people are like, oh, I don't know how to meet people or I don't know what to do, people are like, go play kickball or volunteer. We kind of encourage sure, but this guy feels like he's coming at it. There's another one too, There's another It was like in it was like in the Erica Christiansen episode where the guy you know, and like everybody's like, oh, he asks everybody out. It's like, we're not safe, but no, do volunteer, do play kickball?

I want sushi right now.

Okay, So as they approach with their six trying to pick up bags of trash out of the water, they see two feet she's tied up. Melinda's on the scene very quick and she's explaining what's what to Elliott and Olivia. So a black teen is found in a trash bag with her ankles bound together with a cable and she

It was he did not have to climb it.

But he is still breathing, and Benson's hopeful that he lives so they can get him to confess. And it's like, yeah, the man laying down passed out at the scene of the crime, did it?

Like that was my thought too, So you guys are so positive. It's this guy who did it and then took a nap on a piece of cardboard.

It's ridiculous.

You know, I love a Red Herringer too, But come on, we're not We're not fools. So we go into the credits. We meet the suspect back up at the hospital. He's cuffed to the bed with no memory of anything. He has a history of picking up hookers, that's what their words. And then they show him the photo of the teen and say, is this to you. He has no idea who she is, and Sailor's trying to be a good guy, like, I get it. She fell in the water on accident.

She sighs.

Benson and Stabler are at home base and Finn is now telling them this is not your guy, and Chesterlake is there. It's one of his episodes, Dune Done Okay.

He does know about title flows. The Tides.

Yes, yeah, is that why Tide is tied like the Detergent.

Probably, Like are they trying to like yeah, I think they're trying to evoke water imagery? Yeah for sure. Wow. Cool.

So I'm trying to think of any other brand like Tide does have such a choke hold on the industry. Name another brand, Well, there's all.

There's a person as we know, is the mister Marishka Hargate.

Is this person spokespan? There's gain? Wow, you know them all? But I will I'm a Tide girl and I have always been. No, we we.

Were a tied household. I don't even think we entertained another brand. That's why I'm like so confused. I do remember that the little Bear, the Snuggie Bear, but I think that's a fabric softener, which I think, yes, passe, Yeah, I don't think people use that anymore.

Yeah, I use bear. The bear had its own snuggie snuggle snuggle. Yeah, snuggle, just straight up snuggle.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, Bounce was just circles. I feel like Bounce a bear was cute, though you wanted to snuggle him.

Yeah.

I loved that bear, not as much as I love the toilet paper bears that just like, fully are okay having pieces of like toilet paper stuck on their butts on camera.

They're just sitting in the woods. They're like, this is our lives. Get into it.

Oh my god, this is okay. So this has to do with our podcast. So I don't know if you saw on social media, there's been a like a trend where women ask, well not women, the question is, if you're walking in the woods, would you rather run into

Yeah, yeah exactly, which makes me laugh.

They're like a claw and a jaw and they could all run and I'm like, yeah, yeah, no, we're not confused at what a bear can bring to the game, like we know we are alive.

We've also just seen twenty five seasons of Law and Order res for you.

So yeah, I got into it with one guy. I was like, no, no, I know what a bear does. I go, but a bear might eat me or kill me or leave me to bleed out slowly. A man can hold me in his basement in Ohio for two decades.

Yeay.

I do not want to be tortured Colleen's standstyle for even a fucking week in your basement.

I would rather get eaten by a bear.

And I don't get why this won't penetrate the men on the internet, Like I'm sure other you know, the men that are listening to this with their girlfriends, they're on our side.

But we talked about this when I was on hysteria recently and I'm oh, wow, okay, and I was like, yeah, bear for sure, because at least with Bear there's like mnemonics. There's like Bear, there's like brown, lay down, black, like staying back like you know, life right back, like there's all like at least I know, white is like good night, good night.

Yeah you're dead. If you see a polar bear, you're fucking dead.

But I've unfortunately done that poem maybe seven times on this podcast.

That was really proud that I learned it, so I probably only know it from you.

But I was like, at least with bears, there's a little bit of a key with men, we just don't know.

And then a bunch of the men in the comments are offended. They're like, I can't believe this is what we think of all the good guys out there. And okay, well, it's also not about it's a question and this is what the women picked. There's no argument, like you could pick bear. You guys can pick bear, Like that's the game. You pick one or the other, and that's your personal reasoning. This isn't like an academic study that's trying to be proven for everyone. And if you would rather fight a man,

Yes, yes, Ronda Rousey, I'm sure is picking man? Yes, yes, Like I'm sure.

If you're a dude who knows how to be in the work, maybe you'd pick a man. I'm just saying, experts in sex crimes, I would say bear.

Bear, bear maybear.

But if it was a river otter. That would be a longer discussion.

No, I can't. We can't get into the rivers.

Because the river otters also like an incest rape, so like the evil river otters, I can't. Oh my god, oh my god. River otters are the men of the animal kingdom. I think I just figured it out. They will steal your baby.

Okay, So okay, we're back to this. We're back to this.

The flow of the river brought her to this place, and with the tide she got stuck with all the bags in this canal whatever. So Stabler can't admit he's wrong though, and he's like, but are we sure she wasn't killed down there? And I really it's one of my biggest pet peeves when the detectives do not listen to the evidence and the other experts like it bothers the shit out of me. And Finn's like, okay, even if she did and was killed there, it wasn't Jesse.

We have security cam footage of him.

He's passed out sleeping outside of Adega till ten thirty in the morning.

She was found at ten am. So we visit Melinda and.

We find out that she was killed with something made of wood, and there's splinters in her scalp from rough hone oak.

I don't know, maybe I wrote it wrong.

So it's some kind of oak, So from either a Homer model or construction site is what Melinda thinks. And she was wrong about the scarring for earlier. It's not just of use. It's an improperly healed female circumcision.

This girl was mutilated.

Then we get a learning info from Melinda that one hundred and fifty million other women also have this in Africa, the Middle Eastern parts of Asia, done safely, and the best case scenario is a woman loses all sexual sensation, but many of these women die from infection. And Stabler, like us, probably doesn't even understand why a woman would agree to this. And he's the voice of the people here. Melinda says, tradition, which the Internet calls peer pressure from the past.

So fuck you.

That is a great name for tradition in a lot of cases, just the past peer pressuring you.

Yeah, is that nice? I don't know you talk with it, but I that's all it is. Yeah?

Why because because someone said so, Someone who died two hundred years ago said so.

Yeah, It's like we don't even remember two generations AGO's names. But we have to like cut off our clips like it's crazy. So and honestly you can write so us. I will not be culturally sensitive at all. When I talk about general mutilation, I think, are you going to get into it?

No you're not? Oh okay, not eat into a deep dive.

No, I don't think so. No, because I talked about a couple. No, no, no, I got into a specific case. No, no, no, I will not be touching on that. Also, other episodes of the show have touched on this as well, right, they love talking about this on this show.

Well, because I think it's just something that is hard to get behind.

Yeah, you know you don't want to eat pork.

I can understand you want to cut off your daughter's clip. I have a few questions, like I don't I don't.

Know, yeah, but I mean I guess people like would would say, well, what about circumcision, and it's like yeah, But for I feel like it's everyone's gonna come because like, I don't know, I watched a documentary the same way, right, Well, they might Okay, I did watch a Netflix had a male circumcision documentary.

I obviously watched it.

I mean, a lot of the men are like white dudes who don't have a struggle, so they they're like out there marching and being like someone took the tip of my dick off, you know, like they really want to feel like they've been wrong in this world.

I I think a lot.

Of people don't do it anymore, Like for a lot of ours and stuff, like, I think it's kind of old school. One of our friends used to say, like all her friends were casually Jewish until they had a boy, and then it's like, well, I'm Jewish. I have to I have to chop up dick. Like you don't keep koshert you don't do the holidays, you don't temple, You're

Like that, it does fuck the.

Nervous system and stuff, but you can still have sexual pleasure.

Like any argument that compares the two is false.

Equivalency to prove some sort of point because you can come.

You can come. It is not fuck up your life.

I don't think little boys are dying across the globe from this from infections. It's not happening to you strapped down at thirteen. But you you receive pleasure still at the end of the day. One is you will never get pleasure from sex, and that is what our society needs from you. Or listen, now, you don't have to clean under this extra thing of sk you disgusting animal.

You know, yeah, you know that.

But my thing that's wild is like most of the world has foreskin, yes, and it's just a Jewish thing. So I don't understand why America took like seventy percent of America's circumcise. So like, I don't understand why the Americans took it on so hard when no one else does anywhere in the world.

I don't know.

I mean I have read about how like in like the like eighteen hundreds or something like one of the Louis, one of the kings had famosis, which is basically when your foreskin will not retract, and that's very painful. So I wonder if like that was more common and so people were just like, oh, let's just do circumcisions to avoid femosis. But I don't know, you're it is like

I know are doing it. In fifty percent are in I know an adult man who did it a few years ago. Yeah, we yeah, you told me this person. Yeah.

But like the other thing is too is like when I it's I don't know whether it's East coast west coast, because on the West coast, it's like none of my friends are doing it. When I talked to my whole group of college girlfriends, I was like, did you because I was thinking about it for when I if I had a boy, I was like, did you guys do circumcisions?

Yeah, but you know the wasps, they like it, they like it, they like it.

Well, my brother spoke to a pediatric urologist who like recommended it, who recommended it for him because my my brother, yeah for it, not for his for his son, not for him.

Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

I was thinking about all your other brothers except for that one, and I could not it could I didn't understand what was happening. And then I was like, oh, yeah, there is one more in North Carolina. Yes, It's like, what the fuck? Why don't they want you to tell that? Listen, have we gotten on a couple of sides here?

We have?

We have?

And I just think it's also like bread from different places if we're trying to compare the two. Yeah, this is this comes out of like control. It's you know, it is bad. It's really her yeah agree, so yeah, but basically she's saying men won't even court women unless they feel no pressure. I mean the whole body. We talk about this all the time. This is like the core energy of why men are such predators so often

Yeah, so you're essentially just like a receptacle for men's pleasure and for having children.

Yeah, that's why it's fucking different than you know what I mean, it's it comes from grossness. Yeah, oh god, why are we doing all the stoning and circumcision episodes? Really back to that, we really are? They really come at us quick? Okay, so they won't they won't court women if they can feel pleasure. She also is like, I think this happened in the past six months, and it is possible that happened in the States because around two hundred thousand immigrant girls are at risk even though

You're one of our One of our first episodes about the twins was a circumcision going wrong.

Yeah.

So Stabler has a friend in immigration, so we go visit Agent Williams to get some information on if this girl could be one of the two hundred thousand immigrant girls who this happens to in the States, and it's flirty, flirty, Okay. Williams is into him, and then surprised. She goes, wow, hadn't heard from you in a while. Oh my god.

This is a lot. And then the girl Williams is.

So humiliated because they clearly were fucking during his break. So but we do get a match, and the match is nikkiel Colombay from Nigeria and she's fifteen and she's here in a ninety day family visa that expired six months ago. Her aunt is a sponsor, and her name is Mira Atume on East one twenty fourth Street and Frederick Douglas. So they go off and they're at a Nigerian craft storefront kind of vibe, and the girl at the front's like, hey, she's actually busy. You can come

So I think that's another thing that's yeah, right.

Even though a baby can't say no, but I feel like a teen screaming is the thing.

Okay.

So then the front desk girl is like, stop, don't go there, but doesn't actually try to stop them and like at all, like it's so funny.

She's just like, please stop, don't go in there, in there, like in every secretary on this show ever. And so then they enter the circumcision moment. There's a lot of candles.

The women are holding the girl down screaming, and the ants like I'm not done yet, and they're like, oh you are, lady, shut the fuck up, and so we're in cement room bars. She doesn't really deserve much better than that, and she doesn't see what the big deal is. She's like, well, you know what's up. Why can't we chop off parts of a young girl's body? Just millions of other girls do it, so why not? And Sailor goes, well, welcome to the twenty first century, bitch and mutilation is

Yes, yes, I wish that there wasn't the kissing of it part, or the licking of the I don't think there is.

I think that's just the perverts that you know, they would get along with this woman. Yeah, all of this is creepy. I just I don't know. I don't I really hate all of this. Basically, they go, no, we we hate you. So tell us about Nikki al and she says I don't know her, and they're like, well, you're listed as her aunt, so why are you lying? And then she hears that she is dead, and she is in shock. She moves so slowly she starts to cry.

Okay.

So we're at home at one hundred and sixty eighth Street and I'm trying to think of like other things like genital mutilation that I'm that doesn't make me as angry, but I can't think of anything like other cultural shit where I'm like, this sucks.

Yeah, it's probably the worst. I mean, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, I'm just trying to see if I'm a hypocrite anywhere, and like I'm just trying to figure it out, and I don't know.

Lisa is showing me a full length Taylor Swift balloon. Taylor, it's lacid, it has it's so floating since Saint Patrick's say it, well, it never floated. Oh, but this is a month and a half balloon that's still in wa hold put it back. I'm gonna take a screen shot. We just show everybody put this up. When this episode comes out Tailor Lisa and her tailor balloon. It's helping cleanse the palette from this female circumcision conversation.

All right, So we go to the house.

It's at one hundred and sixty eighth Street and if you remember, you know it's it seems like she was dropped one hundred and sixty ninth by the cable being cut off.

So we're in the area.

A short haired woman with gold hoops lets them in, and she seems stressed and anxious, but she does admit to knowing who Nicky is.

She's like, yes, I know, Niki is Niki? All right?

She's like, Nicki lives here, and then she starts screaming where is Nicki? So you know, she gets explained that Nicki is dead. And then we do hear a door slam in the back, so Benson starts jogging from the inside. Stabler runs outside to catch this man on the outside. He's climbing us, so Matt Wall, he's hopping, he's rolling. This is like a very intense physical movement scene. He's surrounded by Benson and Stabler in the car in a car park area. His hand is broken and fucked, so

It hurts.

Stop but Stabler just up takes it to the back anyways to handcuf it fully. So the guy's name is Chuck Way, but but Tommy Chuck Way. And he says he didn't do anything to her, and he says that is my wife, and Benson and Stabler are like fuck. This gets even deeper, and then Chuck Way goes, yes, this is my wife. They're at the Morgan now and he wants to touch her and Benson and Stabler won't

Yeah, well, it's kind.

Of like when people are like, yeah, but if you choose to be covered head to toe her, if you choose to stay at home, or you choose all these things, then it should be about choice. But we're denying the reality that they don't actually have a choice because if you don't live that lifesele, you're like kicked out of your family, or you can't be in the like you don't know any different. There's just so many things where we pretend it's choice.

But then also it's been a bit of a brainwashing since birth that this is what's going to happen when you become a woman, and don't you want to become a woman, and this and that, like she probably didn't know what it was until it was actually happening to her, you know.

Yeah, agree, it's it's like an illusion of choice to defend these things, and yeah, they don't actually have choice, so stop it. Okay, so you know, but he goes, you can't force Nikki to do anything, and then they go, well, someone forced her into the river, so they're really being funny about this, really a sad situation.

Sabler does a theory.

He goes, you brought a fourteen year old over here to marry her, and she realizes, fuck, I don't want to be with you, and she tried to escape and you killed her. And he's like, I have a non working arm in what world? Benson goes, well, your right arm looks pretty good. He's shocked. He's dumbfounded, and he goes, you know what, lawyer. They keep trying to talk to him, so Craigan breaks in and goes, you need to leave,

I was, I just was watching a little bit of it, but I wouldn't know every all. Oh, okay, but so Danielle is crazy.

We've learned over the past few years and it is what it is.

So she also just needs male attention.

And there was like a hot guy Gabby wanted to flirt and Danielle wanted to make it a competition and she like fucked him, right. But because of that and alcohol, Gabby is crying in the shower of like everyone's putting brotherure.

On me for this episode.

Okay, So then Paige is like, hey, you made your friend cry, like go talk to her, and Danielle's like, that's stupid. And then Danielle goes as an entrepreneur and CEO, I need to communicate effect, and then Paige in her confessional goes entrepreneur and CEO of what I ask of what?

And it's just like iconic, it really is.

You know what's great about this podcast is you can see my mind change throughout it all the time.

I'm always learning, you're always open.

Your ability to jump from female's circumcision to summerhouse is unparallel.

No one does it like you.

I meant like changing my opinions throughout the years, but also topic jumping for sure.

Yes, we're all learning, we're all growing. Opinions can change.

So they're basically like, well for sexual abuse and dangering the welfare of a child, take your pick, statutory rape, YadA, YadA. Finn and Lake are tossing the home and they find out that the marriage was real and there's consolate papers to prove. It's November twenty six, so I'm assuming around Thanksgiving and Finn is bonding with the short hair woman from earlier. She makes him take his shoes off and she needs to cover all the mirrors. So she's a

Amazing. I thought he is the wax guy.

This, yes, so because he's played lots of different characters, but this is wax guy coming back because they call him.

Waxman, which I think when we saw him in name in name, He's.

Like, oh, it's ridiculous.

It's ridiculous with the wax, Like, we knew he'd been all these different parts, but I don't think we knew that he had comes back as waks.

Me.

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

No, this was a thrill when I heard wax come out of one of their mouths. So basically, this guy has blonde, long hair. We got to get him on the pod. We gotta find another episode he's in because I love this guy. He loves freedom of speech. They want him to rat and snitch. He goes, are you kidding me? Like, look at my T shirt? This is crazy. You would even ask me? My sales would go down, so Lake and chuccul to do the classic Fine, well

I did not know this. That is wild.

I mean some of these credits are podcast voiceover.

But yeah, he's done seventeen episodes of The Deuce, there's thirty episodes of The Powers.

Yeah, Godfather of Harlem. He's been on Michael Chase Show. I mean he he also is sometimes credited as Cliff quote method Man, end quote Smith so but Mark.

But those are usually you're playing yourself. Those are himself. So I feel like that's a different category, like he might still be playing.

Yeah, it's like in The Duke.

He's in seventeen episodes in The Deuce as Rodney, as a character named Rodney. No, for sure, I'm just saying that, Like, you know how James Vanderbeek played James Vanderbeek in Don't Trust the Bee and Apartment twenty three.

That's still an acting role.

Sure.

Him on the Tonight Show is like him as himself. So I feel like, but this is my favorite. It says orange is the new black cardboard cutout credit only.

I love that. Yeah, and a bunch of these are like blue black videos.

But he's also been in like movies The Good Wife CSI, four episodes of CSI.

He was in Difficult People like This is Not. He was in The Wire. He was in thirteen episodes of the Wire as Melvin Cheese Wagstaff.

Well, and he's in Keanu, the movie I famously took my small niece and nephews too. That was a full stripper cocaine sword nightmare. I'm not so funny, It's so fucking funny.

Just listen.

I'm just like really excited, and I just was ignorant to the fact that Medman method Man is just killing it. Oh my god, Oz, he's been acting for such a long time.

Yeah, yeah, what's he up to right now? Well, I mean his IMDb's got pictures of him in like a suit. He's probably played all different guns.

Well, that's Power five upcoming, oh, PowerBook two Ghosts. Yeah, he's got five things in the upcoming section.

Dude, he's working.

Okay, we're back, But I just I'm so excited about method Man. We haven't even met him yet. I'm just saying that he is played by method Man. We don't even know that yet. Anyway, he's a Harlem drug dealer, He's a business guy. Stabler does call him a thug. And then we know that he beat up a sixteen year old boy named Damon Moore, who I guess looked

On the site, he was found dead.

Munch goes, wait, so this whole time, Chuck Way's on our side, He's been helping us, he was going to testify, and so like maybe King killed Nikki to shut him up. Craigan walks in and Chuckway's attorney is here. Her name is Sarah Flint and she's with West African Legal Services. She is blonde and angry and in the blinds woodroom talking sternly to Olivia and she wants them to stop harressing her client.

He is burying his wife today. Good point.

I know this woman from nine oh to one zero original just steph Yi. That's where she popped out for me. She used to do a lot of more acting and Tracy Mittendorf and I. She had a big arc on Nino.

Amazing for the Olds.

She's like, Oh, you know what, I just realized that my dad is not a boomer. My dad is from the Silent generation. Oh yeah, he's pre boomer.

Yeah, wild saying yeah, but he must be cusp right, like, because my parents are boomers and they're not that much younger than your parents.

Yeah he's eighty six.

Yeah, my dad's nine years younger than your dad, and my dad's squarely boomer. So I don't know, maybe he's maybe he's a silent boomer.

I don't know.

I don't know the Yeah, but the differences are within a few years.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Yes, yes, I myself, I'm on a cusp of generations.

I'm a millennial. I feel more connected to millennials.

I'm not. I don't feel gen X, but like you know, my birthday is like truly so close to the cutoff line. But I think most people say I'm millennial.

Yeah.

So she's like, okay, I mean, no, one's confused at what I am. Okay, sorry to move on. But so she's like, oh, but him running away is a red flag, and she explains, duh, he's scared of the police. He's a political prisoner from back home. And Stabler implies that he was lying, and she's like, I know that he was because I was working there with Human Rights Watch, you fuck head. He's not some liar who spun a tail.

There's also a thing where Stephen Weber defends Method Man and Ludacrous. So he's got more than one rapper on his you know.

N sca little Yeah, you know I got you got a murder mystery game and we've never played it. Yeah, I bet.

You donated it. No, I have it. I have it. I'm ready to play. I bet you gave it to someone on the block.

No, I have it absolutely in our game cabinet. Yes you know I have.

Well, I still have this fucking board game that I've not played. One time haunts me.

You tried to sell that at a sale.

Yeah, I've been trying to get rid of this forever, and now at this point she's really survived. It's a game. It's the elevens. Is the card game of morning tea. So I brought up to New York, made it to New York.

Baby, you better be playing that over t asap.

The whole point of the game is you are respectable nineteen twenty socialites striving to serve the finest morning tea. So pretty cool, pretty cool game, Pretty cool game. Oh whatever, So they're playing games too, you know Stephen Webber, who I kept writing Cooper for forever for some reasons. But Weber and mister method Man are very smug. He says, listen where I come from. Rats suck, And then he tells a story of a woman having the word snitch burdened into her face and I don't like to hear

He was shot by the cops.

Here's the death certificate, the gravestone number where my client was praying, and that's pretty fucking good.

Damn, he's worth every penny.

So Gloria Reuben walks in and it seems like Stephen Weber wants to fuck her real bad, like he is into her. And she's playing Adya Danielson homicide beeraut Chief and she's wearing a boot with a bare naked foot in it, and she is injured and I'm sure that she was actually in and they put this in like there's no reason for her barefoot booth to boot to be out. So he gets up and he basically goes Mike, client and I are leaving.

There are no charges.

She goes, maybe not for intimidation, but he did violate an order of protection. You can't get closer to chuckway than one hundred feet. He responds, nice booty, and she goes, yeah, watch it kick your ass, So like everyone wants to fuck her, and then it's done. Don trial method man seems unbothered. He's picking at his nails. Weber and Ruban are fighting at the bench to the judge, Bam bam, back and forth.

I want this, I want that. She's kicking his ass.

Baylis set at half a million dollars and Chuck Way is sitting in the audience area. Method man winks at him and sticks his tongue out really fun wise, and he's being handcuffed and dragged away. So then Chuck Way is pretty scared. He's standing at the courtroom steps outside and tons of people are wearing the snitching shirts standing there. Benson and Stabler run up the stairs to meet Chuck Way. They take him in for protected custody and he's like,

Secure him first.

The DA will hold him and make sure no more surprises, and if it's all worked out, move the whole family with him. Almani is eating with her kids and Benson is there and she's like, we're good, We're a good Christian family.

And the Bible loves.

Polygamy, and she's like, we're not different than millions of people all around the world. And Sarah thinks that Benson needs to be more open minded, and so Stablor pries and goes, so you weren't mad when he married Nicki and she's like, nope, we both welcomed her into our home, Almani says, because Sarah is a citizen and it helped her and Nikki get to the US. And so they go back and forth, and finally Sarah is like, it should be my choice, and you're a boomer, so get

Right, right, And then the property goes to the sheep when you die. I mean, you know it all works. I just don't think it's that crazy.

This whole conversation also reminds me of this meme that I keep seeing that's like, that's like every cult religious cult leader. I've received a message from the Lord, and the Lord is and then it like interrupts and goes and I am to have multiple and it's like multiple wives, Like I can't do it. But it's like every cult leader is like the same. The Lord keeps giving me the same message and it's I am to have many wives,

Oh God.

But then she starts putting down monogamous relationships and I'm like, okay, you're doing the same thing back at them that you don't like. She goes, well, men cheat on you anyways, so why not just have a ton of wives. And Benson and Stable and Gloria Rubin are having a meeting and she doesn't have enough money to get like a car to protect them, and Benson basically they only have one point two million.

Dollars to protect everyone.

For a whole that needs help, like it's a really low budget whatever, and so they want to protect him. Benson goes, you know, we need to put away King and she goes, yeah, it's important, and I'll give a pass on polygamy. That's what he's getting. And Benson goes, listen, I hate polygamy. But he's putting his family life, everything on the line, and it's already cost him his wife's life, Like,

What should I tell them, you know?

And Gloria goes, they should have witnessed a federal crime, bigger budgets.

Yeah, I love that.

Benson notices on her shelf there's an award for Project Protect and there's an alarm pendant hanging on it and they used to give it out and she's like, why don't you just give me two of these? Is that in the budget? And so I can protect the wives. Even though she's disgusted with their lifestyle, she does want to help them and that's what makes Olivia fantastic.

So it's a direct line to SVU. These little pendants.

So Stabler goes to see Chuck Way at the motel that they're put up at, and they start talking to the maid in the hallway and oh, door hallway, the patio cement hallway. So the family left an hour ago and she said it was a whole family and it was a mess, but they fucking left. And so he calls Benson, who answers the phone and goes, yeah, I know they just walked into the precinct.

They have.

They got a note slipped under the door and it's a threat to Obi the Sun and he's not going to risk his family in safety. So he yells and they keep pushing and Stabler is like, the only way he walks as if you let him. He says, shut up. People like King don't stop. They think they're above the law. Silber says, fine, I'll protect you. Let's go. I'll post up at your home. He's touched by this decision. He needs them safe and he needs his testimony. So, okay,

Stephen?

Webber goes, you're the pusher, You're coursing deals, plea deals, you're threatening criminal charges. Fuck you you're not better than me. Great fucking point. Methan Man goes in, high fives his lawyer and goes, let's go. We're gonna go drink some Christall and so they all leave to party and basically they're continuing his bail and the state has twenty four hours to find evidence of intimidation. So O'Halleran aka Doyle aka baby Doll, he says, So he takes the threatening notes,

Obviously it's confusing.

Many Almani was unconscious when patrol found her, and we don't know if she's even gonna make it.

Fuck fuck fuck.

All the doors and windows are intact and methan Man and his friends are across the street from the house, so they stomp over to him, strut strutstra and he's like, slow down, I'm one hundred and thirty feet away. There's no violation here, and Stanbleord goes, oh, I'll find one, and Stabler starts making fun of his friends, but they take, you know, King's side. Ben's and gets a phone call and King goes, they're all scared of you. Maybe that's

She came back an.

Hour later without Nikki and basically threatened, if you say anything, you'll be deported. After they took away Chuck Way, she finally stood up to Sarah and said she would not let him go down for her crimes. So she beat her. Oh sorry, just like so insane. So she says, Sarah is my family. I stayed silent as long as I could, but my kids and I need our husband or my husband, Okay, no incest. Here, Sarah's sitting with Chuck Way in prison full Bar's room and they bring in the printer smoking gun.

You know that.

He gets mad and asked, what did you do to our family? And she screams, you did when you let Nikki into her home. I accepted ALLMANI is your wife, because you know you had her before we met.

There was no need for Nikki.

He goes, I married her to save her life, and she goes, but he didn't have to fall in love with her, and she massages his face. He slaps her hand away and screams guard. She then pleads it was an accident. She fell down the stairs. He stands up and he keeps screaming for the guard. She is sobbing. He shoves her aside. They arrest her, as she cries as they cut her, they cuff her. They do not cut her. They cuff her, so she screams, King is a thug. He deserves to go to prison, not me or you. Wow.

So We're at the like the eighth trial.

It's December third, What a busy fucking week, and he's ready to be a witness. He tells on this fucker he's wearing traditional clothing from his culture. He straight up points out that king, you know, is the guy who beat the boy with the pipe, and method Man gets pissed and screams, he's a liar, Dennis. Cops are making him lie. Who's Dennis? Okay, I'm just making things up.

A king. My name is Dennis. Oh it is? Yeah, that's such a.

Nod, A hard name, Dennis, like so itis, Oh you're right?

Yeah, okay, I stand corrected.

I just think of my mom's one coworker and his son who was a junior.

Okay.

So, so the cops are making him lie and Weber tells him to shut up, and Chuckway stands up and screams, no, you murder that boy in front of a crowd of people and in front of God. Method Man throws the table over and screams, you're a dead man. Stabler jumps him. Judges streaming order, l ol, bitch like a gavel's gonna stop this commotion. He's being dragged out he's not being chill at all. He's screaming everything you love is dead. You're dead.

Everyone's dead.

Bye, bitch. Almani and Chuckway embrace. He feels okay, he is no longer afraid. They walk off after a hellish couple weeks. And that is dick wolf baby. I mean it's also okay.

Wait, so she pushes her down the stairs, and then she did and then she says she's gonna take her to the hospital. Let's say she kills her. Then she goes and steals the cable from another place. This lady, this lady lawyer goes and steals cable.

It was just like a block away.

Yeah, it was cut out, like she couldn't find a rope. She just like went and stole cable out.

Of her Uh.

It's confusing to me, but well maybe because she'd have to go buy rope and she didn't want to leave a credit card.

Yeah, that's true, you don't want to leave a trail. But I don't know why why even tie Like I don't know the tying. It just felt like that was all a little bit like red herring stuff. That wasn't you know. I'm always looking for holes but what a wild I mean, Chuck Way and ALMANI have to move to like fucking North Dakota. They just have to, Like this guy's going to come after them, I feel from jail. Yeah, they gotta get out of there. I don't know what

For that beautiful recap.

We're gonna get into some We're gonna get into some true crimes in a moment.

Okay, we're back so really quickly.

I want to touch on the website stinkin rat dot com, which is based on an actual website called who'sarat dot com, and it looks like it was designed very much in the early odds. It claims to be the largest online database for police informants and corrupt police slash agents and it says thank you for visiting www dot who'sarat dot com a very unique investigative research tool website service that

So it says please. It also says please.

Post informants that are involved in non violent crimes only who's informing? I guess people are informing on drug dealing, but like, are people informing on like he lets his dog shit on the street, or like, I don't know nonviolent crimes?

I don't. It's it's wild.

But Homeland Security warned law enforcement against visiting the site. They were like, don't go to this website. It has published lists of government IP addresses, names and photographs of law enforcement officers, and names of confidential informants, and it could result in the compromise of government IP.

Addresses if you visit it.

So there's like a whole thing that's like, if they're collecting IP addresses, they could it could show that a cop is looking at it, and then that could affect their testimony at trial or any of their cases that they have ongoing. So it's like the Homeland Security is like, babes, please don't go to this. Lifetime membership is forty nine to ninety nine. But when you go to the website, I cannot imagine it's being updated. So if you want to find an informant from twenty years ago, you can

So a funny thing is on this DVD.

NBA star Carmelo Anthony briefly appears on it, and he was obviously a lot of people were like, yo, Carmelo, are you in this Stop Snitching DVD?

And he was like, I thought it was a joke.

I just thought it was my neighborhood friends making a home movie and nobody should really take the message of this DVD seriously. Baltimore PD tried to combat this campaign with their own Keep Talking campaign, which gave also gave out DVDs and free T shirts in the same way, but this time it was to like make potential witnesses like feel safe and highlight that it's important to bring criminals to justice and stuff. But I don't know, I don't think it god as viral as Stop Snitch and did.

Yeah, because that's what's weird.

As you know, we're we like love Chuck Way, and he tried to save her, but he did fall in love with a fifteen year old. Yes, yes, And I get that it's chill in their and their culture, but like, uh yeah.

And we can talk about this in an intro if we want, But like this, the Jerry Seinfeldt who shot a Lonstein stuff is way in my feet again. I feel like everybody's bringing it up because Seinfeld's been bitching about like comedy being too woke or whatever, and now everyone's like, remember when you were thirty eight and you dated an eighteen year old thirty nine?

He was thirty nine and he dated anything.

You have a billion dollars? Why don't you just keep your mouth shut? Like we've talked about this before, but seventy year olds being like, ah, the young culture is not for It's like, yeah, you're old, dude, Yeah, keep performing for the old, like it's your idea that you're gonna connect with nineteen year old Stop doing colleges.

Yeah yeah, young people don't like you.

You're seventy Take your Netflix money and stop doing colleges.

It's fine, Like I just it's just so embarrassing when such old people are like youth today they're too offended.

You are a senior citizen.

Why do you think you're gonna connect with people that are twenty because your kids, because you have kids that age.

Well, when he was forty, he was connecting someone who was eighteen. I didn't even realize in this stuff I've been seeing like they dated for three years. I kind of thought it was like maybe just a flirtation or something, but like they dated for three years. She moved colleges to be closer to him. In laugh anyway, So Sean Mary's Joy, he's thirty, she's nineteen, and but Bing Bang Bong he's already married. He's married to a woman named Sheila.

To see the world.

She's not leaving the States, and if she's in the States, she's not using her cell phone. So plus, she tracked down the dude that Joy was supposedly running off with this ex boyfriend, and shock of shocks, he had no plans to meet up with her. He was not in touch with her. So now cousin knows something is up and Joy is not okay. So she goes and questions Sheila, and Sheila is surprised because she honestly thought Joy had pieced out. She that's like what she's been told, and

Meat, he said.

So he called his son, who was a federal ranger with the Bureau of Land Management, and on January ten, two thousand and four, a little less than four months after Joy's disappearance, Conde's son, the ranger moved these rocks aside and discovers human remains. It's a torso and a portion of a head. Now, a detective for the Maricopa County Sheriff brought these extremely decomposed remains to the emmy in Phoenix, who was able to determine that she was young,

End of quote.

So like they had no teeth, no fingerprints, and DNA is apparently very hard and expensive to extract from such a decomposed body. So full Janeiti and her colleague, a forensic artist. I've never heard of a forensic artist before, but this guy's name is Detective Bob Powers.

They worked to use.

Her remains to recreate her face, like they used clay to kind of like fill in the gaps, and they ended up with a sketch of her, but it didn't match anyone in Missing Persons.

So at one point they had a lead.

They thought, oh, it might be this person who popped in Missing Persons, but they and now the lead led to them being able to get the DNA sample from the remains, but it wasn't the right woman. But now they have the DNA sample, so then it makes it into the FBI database and boom, there's a match. So after eight months after her bones we found, and almost a year from when she disappeared, Joy Risker's body is finally idd It's the summer of two thousand and six.

But friends say he also like, you can also just split up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's lazy. Why don't you just dump her on the side of the road. You don't have to kill her?

I know. Fuck, it's so fucked.

And friends say that he also told Joy if she left he would keep the kids, so like, I can see why she's not leaving. If he's saying he's going to try to keep the kids, but yeah, he's a murderous psycho. But Sheila, who at the time of the trial has already divorced Sean, also testified. She talked about how six days before Joy's disappearance, he came home with a chisel, a handsaw, a pickaxe, a sledgehammer, duct tape, plastic sheeting, a shovel, a cooler, a butcher block, and

He tells her.

So he didn't get back till Monday, and he told Sheila he'd gone for a long drive to deal with the Joy breakup. So and of course this monster in court tries to claim that Joy attacked him and that he killed her in self defense, and he like plays up his religiousness at court, like his religiosity, like he's

It's also so funny that proving religious city or whatever is positive when all like murder is like so many wars, like I know, like religion is violent.

Yeah, yeah, you talking about you being into God actually just backs up the whole thing.

Yeah.

I just thought it was like wild that there weren't like more articles about this.

I mean there are.

Articles, they're just like there's a dateline, but there's not as much. I don't know. It wasn't like a case I heard about and it happened in the two thousands, so I you know, thought it would have trickled over to me at some point. But this poor fucking woman was you know, murdered by this asshole after she agreed to be his second wife.

But that's that. So what's a bummer.

Yeah, but we have a great guest and that's going to make you all feel better.

So don't go anywhere. And his movie idea wasn't bad if I'm being honest.

Our guest today is a Nigerian British actor who has starred in some huge movies. You've seen him in Hotel Rwanda and Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End. Plus he's a recurring character on Black Sales, which you can watch on Netflix now. But you know him today as the kind polygamist Chuck Way Bathamme. Please enjoy our chat with Hakim k kasm Hakim. We're so excited I have you on this podcast. I feel like Thank You for

Well, just do me a favor, just remind me of the Chokway episode, because it's been in minute since I've seen it, so yeah, you have to catch me.

Up on it.

So you are from Nigeria and you have come to the United States with a wife, and then you marry and you bring another woman over from Nigeria.

You marry her, and then you also marry your.

Lawyer who is an American citizen, and you guys have this sort of like blended family of polyamory or whatever. And then unfortunately in the end, your American wife kills one of your other wives and he's only fifteen because you fell in love with her and she's jealous.

But they think it's method Man for a long time.

That's right, Yes, I remember, Yeah, you're in a big episode with Method Mary.

Yeah, we should have just met the man.

Yeah remember. Yeah, he was lovely as well. And I didn't know. I knew Wu Tang Klang vaguely. I think I just come over from South Africa, so and I wasn't really listening to that music, so I didn't actually know that he was a musician until after the show.

He was oh, you.

Worked with this great musician method Man, So I was like, oh, well, but he was lovely so it's really really a nice man.

So yeah, it was great working with him.

That's great because his character was it was very scary.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well, I don't know if you remember, you did a lot of stunts. There was a lot of running, jumping, you're getting swemmed on a car. Do you remember the process of shooting, rehearsing stunt doubles or anything like that.

You know, I remember I was fitter then. I mean, yeah, I was fitter then, so I don't remember it being any problem. But yeah, I mean, I always enjoy it if I can do. I mean, I've just done another procedural up there in New York and a lot of running, but they put in a stunt double for because I wasn't running quick enough. So I realized that actually ages caught up on me. But I think back then it was great. It was a lot of fun.

Do you live in Cape Town or are you there for work?

I live between cap I'm here for work, but I live between Cape Town and Los Angeles, so you know, work takes me all over the place. But I have a you know, I stay. I've got a very good friend who I stay with in LA when i'm there, so I was just in LA and then uh and and then I live sort of most of the time in Cape Town. Now since the pandemic, it's been more more Cape Town than than LA.

Yeah, if you were to come back on SVU, what would you like to play?

Maybe somebody? I don't know, because I'm always playing sort of nasty. I don't know, you know, you know, I don't know. I shouldn't and I don't. Actually, I wouldn't mind whatever they threw at me. I think, I mean this, this the one on that, the one recently that I think it's just been there now. I was a sort of a dex An next general sort of you know, a bit of a nasty character, and I sometimes I get those that this one, maybe i'd be a really nice man.

Well, you're you're very nice in this SVU and this SVU you're like, yeah about your fav I don't know. NICKI is young. Nicky is young.

He did marry a fifteen but he but he married her to bring her away from.

Persecution and religious execution in her home country, so he was kind of bring her a favor.

But you remember, you remember she is.

But she is fifteen.

So yeah, the show really sets you up to whose side are we on?

You know, well, you played a real life, real bad guy in Hotel Rwanda and like war criminal general, Like, what's the process like to play a real person?

I know that was a while ago too, Yeah, yeah.

But that one I remember because it had a sort of quite a big impact on me because I just got to South Africa for the first time, and South Africa in ninety four roughly was celebrating the release of Nelson Mandela the first elections, so there was a sense of amazing euphoria here and an amazing possible abilities here, and it was a really sort of you know, it gives me goose punts when I think about it, because it was such an exciting, possible time, full of possibility.

Doing what he's doing.

Yeah, And are you a method like you do so many different accents and like so many different types of characters.

Do you stay in it the whole time? What is your process with that?

No, I mean it depends on how intense it is. It's you know, it's hard to you know, because there are always people around I mean, I'm not the one of that who just stays in it all the time, but I do cut myself off, you know, depending on how difficult I feel it is, I cut myself and it's hard because you know, you've got people talking to you, got your crew around you, and that sort of stuff says that balance of not appearing rude but staying in

So yes and no is an answer to that.

I suppose do you like being cast as like characters from I mean, you perform, You've done UK television and movies, South Africa, Nigeria, the US, I mean people we just talked to as If Monvi recently and like he has a Americanized sort of British accent because he grew up in Britain, and he like when they ask him to

Do you embrace that kind of work? Are you like?

Yeah, I love it. I mean I love it.

So I've done all all those characters who put them all over and yeah, I love it. You know, once the work is there, then I get into it and try, I mean and then try and you know, try and get the accent down down as quickly as possible and as thoroughly as possible. I mean, sometimes it's hard, you know that they asked you to do. Like I just did a film where I had to do a French West African accent. I'm not quite sure how successful it was. That the film is good, the film is great, it's

To really delve in deeply enough.

And that's when I get frust That's when I get sort of frustrated because you know, obviously, on the bigger movies, when you were start, I give you, you know, months and months and months to to to and a voice coach and at this coach and that coach. On the smaller movies and kind of movies, you know, you're thrown in and deepen on your own and you you and YouTube the the you know, and that's where it becomes frustrating.

Yeah have you ever done American accent? I would love to hear it.

Yeah, yeah, you're not. You're not gonna hear it. You're not gonna hear it.

But yeah, I done.

American many times.

Your accent is so amazing.

And then whenever somebody that has like a beautiful accent does American, I feel like they're always like hot, like HI like they do sort of like a valley, like a stupid And.

I like that mine, mine goes, mine goes south.

Actually, when I when I intend to go southern, yeah you.

Know I did, Uh what have I done? I did?

Roots Roots Roots the remake up Roots, and there I played southern Southern gentleman. I did a film called Daylight's End. If you want to check my American action out critique and it's a really it's a really nice film. It's called Daylights Daylight's End. So if you like zombie movies, it's a really good zombie movie and you can check it out. You can check it out and you can critique me. You can critique me from then tell me if it's any.

Good stalking or I m dB. I notice you do a lot of video game voiceover. Is that different than normal voiceover acting or what's that?

Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a It is very different and I love I love doing the voice service.

It's a lot of fun.

It can be quite intense and it's different, but it's depending on the type of voiceover you're doing. It can be quite heightened. So it's not like being on stage, and it's not like doing a TV or a film. It's it's somewhere in between all of those where you have to because it's just a voice, you have to heighten everything a bit and and then then give them something the characters a bit, A bit more heightened than being as naturalistic as you might do on a television

Do you play video games?

I don't.

Do you play the games you are in now?

Not at all, Not at all at all. I'm not a video game I remember doing the Halo. I did the Halo, one of the very first Halos, and people were going on and I never played it and I never you know, I had no idea about about it until I did the video game.

Well then I also saw you were in you did a video game of like a character that you played, I think, right, Like, didn't you do the video game voice of the same character that you played? And like I think the Pirates of the Caribbean.

Yeah, that's right, Yes I did.

Yeah, it'd be fun.

You get like we've already developed the characters and I'll just get in there and do some video game.

Yeah, exactly, double take. So it was a lot of fun.

Yeah, huge movie, how is it? It was a lot of green screen and all that stuff.

Yeah, I mean I did all my my From what I remember, most of my stuff was in the green screen and in the Disney stage. And that was when I first got to LA. So it was very, very very exciting for me in terms of just coming off the boat. I was living in South Africa, and I just got off the boat more or less from South Africa and into the Disney studio there on wherever that is in the LA and yeah, straight straight onto set,

Well, you're saying love you know, all of these lovely experiences. You don't have to name names, but can you tell us once since you have so much experience of like a nightmare situation or someone that was acting crazy on set?

You know, I'm going to think about it.

I don't nothing stands out to anybody acting crazy on set in front of me anyway. So, I mean there was one case where the actor and is a big actor, and I didn't again, you know, I was in South Africa and this big a list actor that left everybody waiting for you know, and I was on my throne, dressed up, ready to go, and the sun's beating down and there's hundreds and hundreds of extras, and you know, this actor decides to come an hour and a half

Yeah, I'm glad you exactly.

He didn't, but we had. We saw him in the restaurant. I don't remember him saying anything. I just remember him looking over looking at me, and it wasn't malice. It was just like, okay, sorry, good thing and there. And then I saw him in the restaurant with his family a couple of days later, and he came over and we had a good chance. So yeah, but that was just weird because I was surprised at the director not being a bit more upset. But then, hey, listen, it's a big star, you know, Yeah.

But I didn't.

Yeah, these people need to be called out.

Yeah, I mean, but I give it hasn't happened often. And you know, the bigger the star, the more generous

I get out to America and I'm there and I.

Think, oh, yeah, I've got this guy's number, and I give him a core thing, but thinking, you know, it's probably one of those yeah I take my numbers, like really call me thing. So I call him up and he says, oh, yo, hi, Yeah, listen, I can't come out right now, you know, you know, but because I've hurt my leg, But why don't you come over to the house. So I went over to his house and showed him. Now I'm really embarrassed, but I showed him my show Lord that I had at the time, which I'm sure.

You know what I mean.

But he sat there and he watched it, and you know, I dragged tea and met his wife and just you know, and it just again, and I'll always tell that story, just really down to earth and I mean, you know, he didn't know me apart from working on the film. He give me his number, invites me to his home to have tea and coffee and and and and just helped me sort of. You know, I had questions about what it's like being in America, what it's like being black in America as an actor, all of those sort

What an amazing introduction to America.

You get here, you go to Don Cheetle's house for tea, you're on the Disney sound stage doing Pirate. The next year, you're in New York doing orders, running through the streets, getting chased by Christopher Maloney. I mean, yeah, no one's had an intro to America like that.

And then I'm just going through your your IMDb going who was the bad celebrity.

Where did you guys shoot the show Black Sales? You were a regular on that show Black Sales? So where was that shot?

That was shot in Cape Town? Actually? Oh wow, that was shot in Cape Town.

So I was, you know, it was nice for me because I'd been living in America and then suddenly got this regular on this Cape Town which then that's what prompted the sort of move back actually sort of thing, and that's when I started to commute from Cape Town to South Africa.

But yeah, I was.

I was in from the LA to cel Abria, but I was in the LA and came to Cape Town. We shot it on set in the studio, most of it on the studio on a lot in the back lot of the studio that they just built with a massive, massive blue ski screen. But Deck Town ships real sort of build real ships that were they built to spec and put on the back lot.

So it was again, it was really interesting.

And did you work with Zach McGowan.

I did, and I just there was a retroceress.

I was just in l A and they did a Netflix have just brought uh from just brought the series. So they are launching this now launched on it's own now on You can watch all four episode four seasons on Netflix. Oh cool, so yes, and and Zach was there.

Zach was there. He's great, a former guest.

He's been on our podcast.

There he go.

I wanted you to know that he was on and he's on one of the most classic Law and Order s View episodes where he's very sexy floutest.

He's a professional floutist.

Was around the world playing flute and wow, you know has a bad night, he.

Has a really bad night. Was a really bad night.

Uh. Yeah, he's great back and you know, we had a great catch up. And you know, he says.

You got to come and stay, man, you got to come and stay see the family and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, he's almost like he's like, We're like, how do you stay so jacked? He's like, I drink beer with my kids. Like I just play with my kids and drink beer. And like he was eat he doesn't.

Meat, eat meat, just meet raw meat. That's how he stays so buzzed.

And brother jacked man in Hollywood exactly, exactly, very sweet. Well, I was reading that you and this is like an article from a few years ago, but that you went back to Nigeria to like train filmmakers there.

I did.

Yeah, I'm still involved in that.

Like bringing helping filmmakers, you know, move up in Nigeria.

And yeah, I mean it's not so I'm not so much doing the training because I've just been busy, luckily being busy just doing my working. But it really is about and then now, you know, every now and then somebody will ask me to to do a film in Nigeria and I'll have a look at them and I love a look at the script and then and see where they're coming from, and then you know, take it,

Everyone and I do.

I do that, And I love being in touch with the Nigerian industry, which I feel is growing and has so much, so much more potential. And the idea of beginning to tell our African stories from an African perspective in an African way, it's very very.

Exciting to me.

So I want to be part of that revolution evolution as well. So this is why I keep going back and done doing it and also creating my own stuff as well, which I'm beginning to do got TV series which I've just begun to what I've worked on during the strike. And you know, now we're fuming out and getting a little bit of interest in the film, which I'm very passionate about, and they're all ready to sort of now get people to have a look at and see if we can get any interest.

So that's exciting.

And they all are all sort of Afro centric, apro conscious, so that's where I'm That's where I want my work to sort of expand into.

Do you I'm looking at your upcoming Do you want to plug anything that's coming out?

Yeah, yes, I will plug something out because I've just directed my first movie, so my first feature film. I've never directed before, and I directed the first feature film and it's called It's the Blackness. It's the Blackness, yes, and hopefully it will come out towards.

The end of this year.

We're busy doing finishing off the edit now and it was all shot in London and it's again it's a Nigerian space and a Nigerian British student and a Jamaican Jamaican student who come out of university and try and get jobs in the in the UK, in the system, and they finally they come up against a glass ceiling. And so it's a story about sort of love and family. It's a comedy and also institutional and institutional racism and

Yeah, and your stars are cute.

These guys want to make it a grand guy, that's right.

Yeah, Yeah. I love the wardrobe, looking at the picks. The wardrobe already is yeah.

Yeah.

So that's that's my first foray into into being behind the camera instead of in front of it.

And where can where did you say it's going to be available?

Yeah, it will be available hopefully towards the end of this year. We're not sure where, but yeah, hopefully books towards the end of this year.

It will be available and eye out for it.

Thank you, yeah, thank you.

Oh my gosh, our first interview from Africa. We've talked to somebody who's been and now we got to keep knocking off continents.

This is great. Thank you.

We know you're jet lagged, and we really appreciate you taking the time to talk to.

Us and watch your episode. It'll be a nice warmer episode.

I will do yes, I will do.

Cool.

He really did give us tea no names, but tea is good no names.

Yeah, we you know you can cross reference with the IMDb's Yeah, we love our detective work. Damn this episode so wild. I just like, didn't.

I didn't.

I hadn't seen this one in a while, even though I've seen it so many times, and I was like, ohyah, I forgot that the lawyer lady does it that the lawyer wife does it crazy.

Yeah, you really do think it's method man for most of it.

Yeah, so you know, let's not judge a rapper by his cover even though he was a criminal.

He was a criminal. He killed c Yeah, you're dead. You're dead. Everyone you love is dead. I mean the acting's great.

He did save the fifteen year old, but then he did fall in love with her, like I'm sorry, it's I know, oh not to go back to Instagram and the hell that they feed me. But it was like a man on the street and they were like, if there weren't laws, how young would you want to like have relations with a person. And this guy said ten on camera, like what like what what? That's crazy. It's just we're we're going back. We're going back to the

Yeah, I mean I guess the post mortem on this is like, I don't I don't see how polygamy works.

I really don't.

Like if it's not gonna be the man doing something fucked up like what happened in the real crime, it's the women are killing each other like what happened in the episode.

Just don't get married or stick to one wife at a time.

I have multiple. Everyone gets to fuck each other. Like, I don't know. It has to be a full equal society for me to think that polygamy works.

Yeah, there's a twenty person pollocule that they just talked to in New York Magazine.

I think a couple of weeks ago.

I've been subscribing, I've been getting the paper ones have I read one full article.

No, I cannot happened to me when I got Vanity Fair and then they just stacked up and I would bring them to pools and then I would just talk the whole time, Like you know, it's like when am I reading a magazine?

Come on anyway, a wild episode. Let's wait.

I wanted to what's this pot? Will you say? What's in this pollocule?

Or whatever? I just literally saw the Instagram.

There's twenty people that are in a relationship with each other, and it's like the articles about like the inner workings of like how these twenty people all fuck each other and are in a pollocule?

But I don't I don't know. I don't know.

You gotta flip open your paper copy and see what happened.

I know, I don't know. Maybe they're on a drug or something.

I think it's possible, but it needs to be like full equality.

I mean, I've been hanging out with a thrupple a.

Lot, and one can't be fifteen. Yeah, I didn't know your friends with a threatle.

I'm friends with a throupple through other friends and I've been hanging out with them a lot, and they're really cool and they seem like they're having a very uh, equally balanced relationship and it's all good.

So I know someone that would date a couple, but they're never the main But then they all broke up and she just ended up dating the woman.

I think that they are all together, you know.

Okay, full it's full full throutble anyway, Well.

Yeah, because I think right now people are also like like old single people are living together now too. Yeah, do what you gotta do, you know, I know, I just I hate the idea that everyone was forced into this like specific way when you know it seems like it it's.

Different for people. Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's just so it's just weird to me.

Like monogamy any No, I mean in terms of like just forcing anything, because like what if these people that are like friends and older, they love the way they live, and then they start a religion and start forcing everyone to do it, and if you don't do it, you're shunned out of society and you can't come to this church. And if you're it's like, you know, that would be seen bonkers. You know, you're laughing at it. But then the but we do it the other like so many way.

From God cleaning and your children. I can't.

I am so happy for her that she's living this blessed life with the two of you.

Why do you got to get and try to fuck up it?

Like?

What?

Why do you think everyone wants that? Yeah? Like, I just don't.

Get the the thing inside of you that says this is the right way with genital mutilation. Yeah, if you want to cut your clid off, and as you're an adult, that's great. I don't get why other women, Like why you think everyone's got to do it? Yeah, I guess I'm just talking about peer pressure and the crusades.

I don't know. I don't even know what I'm trying to say. No, he pisses me off.

That people have like shame and gil and spiral and have to escape these constructs to just be who they are.

We just don't want people to be.

Yeah, just trying to homogenize any group and make them do what you do is fucked.

We hate that. We don't like that.

And to bring it up into a fun thing. I was at the Georgia o'keith Museum. I was very inspired and she you know, she was an individual through and through for all her all her years.

She died at ninety six.

Wow, you know she was wearing her hair up in a bun before anyone did. She was out there traveling alone, like doing art, finding her voice, pro lift thousands of pieces of work. Wasn't precious, loved every like just.

Fucking did it? You know that's cool?

She just and it was really and God, she didn't go to a college where a Kansas City chief's kicker was the commencement speaker, because maybe she wouldn't have done any of that, you know, So she.

Was I forgot where she was born. But then they moved to Virginia. She went to some like girls hoity toity school. She ended up going toll like a ton of colleges. But she went to the Art Institute of Chicago. Oh and so that's really exciting. And then she went to New York to study more. I think she must have come for money. She did a lot of schooling, and then she met her husband of many years, who was like a photographer and took photos of her, and he had a gallery and then a photos of her.

I love that you're like this huge ture Joe Keefe historian. Now, well, I didn't know it was just this one museum.

Well, I also love You're gonna love how this ties back to me and that when you first walk in the description of her on the wall, like you know, I've read everything that's in the museum is very particular about framing.

She framed most of her own.

Work, and even the ones that aren't are made to her like specifications or style, but very into framing. And she collected everything and has all these quotes that like, spaces should be filled with things that you love. And in this museum they had a box of shells that she collected, and she like collected things, and she just yeah, so I love like I did start crying at her box of shells.

I was worrying. That's so cute.

I also could believe, you know, when you're seeing things that this woman wore and did.

Oh, and like she loves stuff so much. She don't want to waste anything.

She found snake bones and she built them into a bench like a full coiled snake she into and clear she like built it into a like the seating thing in her home because she didn't want to waste anything.

Wow, well, that that resonates with me.

You know, I'm not I don't like to waste I like to use all parts of the buffalo if I can.

She kept the horns. She like she would analyze one thing like.

I don't know. I was just really inspired by her.

But also they had because it was Mother's Day, they had a lot of activities and so they had a thing where you can make postcards. Obviously, I sent one to my mom and I sent it to our friend who loves art. But they had like flower stickers and colored pencils and like, and so then there was a bunch of old women I was sitting with and they were talking, and one of the old women, she was there with her grandkids, I mean, I can go on

Just you know, it's cool because everyone just thinks, oh.

It's these flowers that look like vaginas, I think what people deduce her work to. And it's just I didn't get like that wasn't it at all.

Yeah.

I thought it was just all of these like flowers, everything was going to look like a vagina. And it's like she just she painted energy, the energy of things in magnified ways. I don't know, it was just it was really incredible and I'm glad I got to stay in Santa Fe for one more day.

That's awesome.

Wow, because it's like a very very convincing ad for the Santa Fe Georgia O'Keefe Museum because I want to go now.

Not enough art.

It's kind of like the free to callo they had at the Brooklyn Museum where it is amazing to see her casts her like her stuff, her wardrobe, her things, the photos, the papers, and some art. But there it's very that's not that big, you know what I mean, Like I wish I want to go where there's the she has thousands of pieces, and so now I'm curious to see where the like the big, big collections are.

But I know some at the Chicago Art Institute of hers, but I know.

But I have no memory of it because to me, I think I was like, she's a joke.

That's what I got from it, like, oh, she's overrated.

She's just a famous woman who paints flowers that look like vaginas. And then I asked our friend, I go, I'm debating about all these museums because I was looking into a few, and I go the Georgia o'keef. She goes, she is a hero, she is amazing, like she is all this stuff. So that's why I was like, oh, well, because our friend's a snob. So I was like, if she says that this woman is like, so I I

Or Dolly Parton was like just a set of tits or whatever. No, sorry, I beg to differ, and so I grew up.

I'm thirty six now thinking that, oh whatever, she's not that good. And then it's like you're just I'm like looking at these colors that she's creating, and I was brought.

I was like fully crying in this museum, like multiple time. It was like it's just yeah, it's wild.

Meanwhile, me and the snobby art friend were just getting drunk at.

A pool for Mother's Day. Oh my god, mother's dy. In the intro, I'm like the worst person.

Oh it's fine. I don't care. I can't believe I didn't bring up Mother's Day. I don't care. I don't care.

Well, what did you do? Tell me about I saw the artworker kids made? Okay, before we end on the what and you go into what was the ster pegtoo?

Please tell us about Mother's Day? Oh it was fun.

I like woke up and I had breakfast with my kids and they gave me some crafts that Jared made with them specifically the day before and they like a little paper bouquet of flowers with Oscar's handprints on them and stuff.

It was really cute. But then Rosie went Rogan did her own.

Thing, and then our friend uh and I went to like a hotel and just got like a day pass and like hung out and just had fun and swam and then we went and got sushi and it was fun.

It was just like you know.

Your normal hotel or did you We went to a different one. We went to one downtown. Okay, yeah, we didn't go to the normal one. We're both trying to save a little money these days.

The downtown one was it was but it was nice.

It was cool actually, and there was like barely anybody there, which was really nice. Like it was not like a lot of kids cannon bawling and stuff.

Like that like that good sushi. Yeah, no kids, oh no kids.

There were like two little girls there with their parents, but they were well behaved and our kids were not with us.

Yeah, yeah for sure. And then the met what do the men do? They got back together. They got together.

They took them on a picnic at this playground and then they went back to their house for like a little pizza dinner so cute.

Yeah, so you felt relaxed and celebrated.

Yes, And it was really it was relaxed. Like the next I like didn't think I drank that much. Then the next day woke up and I was like, I kind of feel like I've.

Been hit by a truck.

There's been a lot of debate again online. I have to remember the internet is not the real world. But it was like, suddenly all these people are like Mother's Days for mothers in the trenches.

It's not for your mother or mother in laws. It's for me. And I'm like, every dynamic is.

Different and every family and everyone's wants are different, Like shut the fuck up.

Going back to like like people try Mother's Day.

Yeah, it's like what if what hey, news flash, what if you don't hate your mother's Yeah, what if it's a joy to be with your mother's and your kids and everyone hangs.

Out like fuck off?

Yeah, And some people, I you know, I love the way you guys do it. You take the kids. I'm out like that. That was that was new to me. That's like our general Yeah.

Because some people are like I just want to do something spending time with my kids, and I'm like, sorry, I want the afternoon off.

I want to be I want to do my own thing.

I want to like, you know, do like I just have fun and not worry about them for an afternoon because I'm worry about them all the time.

You know, how is uh Tricians? Oh yeah, Mother's days. Mother's Day. Oh it was so much fun.

It was just us too and little patients and we went out for breakfast and yeah, it was just so it was just a very calm, special day hanging out with the baby.

So it was nice. It's cute.

Thank you.

Do you call her anything or is it full time patience.

We were thinking her nickname would be Pippy pippies, so cute, but when we met her, we're like, you're not You're not Pippy. I don't know, maybe that'll come out still, but we have. We even call her little pee.

Uh that's what our friends, our friend's daughters call their little lovies, their pippies, and like, that's what I think about when I hear like pippy.

It's like their little love that they love. All that's so cute. All right, lettle be patty. I hate to do this.

I hate to go right from a beautiful Mother's Day celebrated reation talk into what would Sister Peg do, our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization or a podcast episode or a movie, a documentary, something to give you more information about we talk today, and we wanted to point you to an article from UNSEF the United Nations Children's Fun about female genital mutilation and what they're doing to stop it. I'm sorry to make this jump from one topic to the other, but we thought

In our WWSPD highlight that.

Actually was the most shocking jump from topic to topic. I would say on this whole podcast, sorry, which is saying a lot, but that is the number one had to job race jo.

Oh my god.

But UNICEF was huge when I was in elementary school. We raised I always had like for we would trick or treat for UNISEF, Like I would have my candy bag and I'd have a little box penny box, right. Yeah. Yeah, UNICEF has been a big part of my, I think a lot of our lives for a long time.

Yeah, and you can donate at that link as well, like it's a it's a great organization.

Yeah, and next week we will be doing Deception from season four, episode two, and we're obsessed with all of you. Thanks for listening as always, and we're we are starting to get into TikTok so.

Yeah, message us your content requests. We love you guys, and we'll see you next week.

My That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod. And on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.

Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to.

Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.

Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media, the Time.

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