Shattered w/ Tamara Tunie

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, Yay?

Another episode of That's Messed Up? An SVU podcast. I am Liza Traeger and I am Kara Klank And every week we bring you a recap of an episode of Law and Order SVU. We bring you the true crime it's based on, and a celebrity guest and wow, today's is gonna knock your little socks off. You may have remembered us posting a photo of us really excited about a guest a couple of weeks ago on our Instagram. I know a lot of you have been like, where's

We got to figure out somebody good for two hundred for sure, or just something we do.

Yeah, we can do.

A retrospective favorite tech favorite.

Do we do influencer stuff where we just get big balloons that say two hundred?

Yeah those buy a pool thank you for two hundred? Yes, would love it.

Also, well, I love is for you guys to come see us on the road. We are doing a little spooky season tour this October. I know it's summer and you're not even maybe thinking about fall plans, but get it poping you guys. Uh, you want to have a fun fall and I hope that we're a part of it. We are going to be in Denver, Phoenix, San Diego, La,

Oh my god, the cookies with the nibs. Yeah, I should bring you some nibs.

My kids just went to a piata party where it was just filled with fucking nibs and they don't like them.

How many pinnadas were there? Oh?

Well, they went to one where we when the third pinata wheeled out, I go, we gotta go, we got we can't.

We can't do Lord of the Flies a third time.

Like, it's just like the way they all swarm the candy and some kids are just I mean, Oscar came home with about I go, Jared, why would you bring home this much candy? Like this bag is filled to the brim and mostly with candy that he doesn't even like.

No, your house is wild. It's like not a life I live like.

We'll get candy from you know, the road or whatever, and then mine will be done in a day, and then I would go to your house months later and it would just be still in a drawer.

And I just don't I don't live like it was psychotic. It is weird.

Because like I have a psychotic one, but you just have like buckets just around town and your home. I know, part of me is like that's theirs, even though what's theirs is mine, but I'm like, that's their candy. But also I do crave sweets, like almost every night, and I usually just eat a couple of Scandinavian swimmers and like move on. And sometimes I just totally forget there's a candy bucket up there with like a bunch of it.

Is weird.

I would say that I normally in my twenties and even probably most of my thirties, I would candy could not survive in my house.

So I don't know what happened. There's been a shift.

I had a Snickers bar this past week, and like that should go in a like if there's not a portal, what are those things?

A time capsule?

Yeah, like when the aliens come down, we need to show them Snickers immediately.

It was so fucking good.

I mean, we're just getting so high at my friend's hotel Terrace, but and I was like, I need a Snickers bar.

I really hit every like every dream I had.

But I think in a time cups would actually put peanut eminem's if I'm being honest.

Oh, I'm a peanut butter eminem's.

Sure, but that's not good enough for the capsule of Reese's peanut butter cup would represent the peanut butter candy community better in terms of aliens.

That's fact. That's the fact.

But I will also say something controversial. I really like the mini Reesis peanut butter cups. I like the chocolate to peanut butter ratio of those better than a full Reese's peanut butter cup. Also, no, I like how it's like thinner on the top of those, like bigger like the regular size ones.

It's like a little cool. I mean, I yeah, that's what I mean. Like just thinking about the candy is driving me nuts.

I mean I do love breaking the top shell, like breaking that little like lake of chocolate at the top.

Yeah, like of a regular I do love it.

I mean all Reeses candies, I mean the seasonal a you're kidding, A Christmas tree, a pumpkin. I'm an egg Like, I'll do all I do, all the seasonal Reeses.

But you know.

Not, Yeah, Rosie's talking about Halloween. But speaking of gigs that we.

Have on the road.

We're coming to San Diego. We love you in San Diego.

A big story out of San Diego that a lot of you have been sending us. And I know, listen, we're we're about to take our little August break where I take my kids to camp and you know, we we we fuck off for a couple of weeks.

Well, but all our episodes are We're banked, baby, We're yeah, you know, we're You're not taking a break.

Yes, you're not getting a break in our content, but we are deeply in the time machine. So yeah, at this point, it will be a little bit later. But people are sending us this article from People magazine of a girl who's fiance proposed to her with like a full day scavenger hunt that was SVU themed and he got a cameo from iced Tea for it. Oho, that's like, that's not that ain't cheap. I think that's like five hundred dollars is it? Oh my god, ic Tea, it's

Yeah, yeah, he pulled out all the stops.

It's an engagement you got you.

There's like a quote where it's like to be loved is to be known or to be understood or whatever.

And that's what this shows, you know what I mean.

It's like, yes, he's really sweet when people give you something that you're like, I just this is encompasses what you're But also, this girl's name is Mattie Anderson.

Maddie, are you listening to our podcast?

Are you coming to our show at the Mike Drop at San Diego in October?

Like you're obsessed with SVU?

I hope she's a listener or if you know her, let her know about us, because we'd love to talk to about her. Uh yeah, that would be a fun, guess sectually, a little fun little talk about random woman. Yeah, Like, oh, there's end, because you know this could go wrong. We have covered on this podcast a man who did have his girlfriend fully kidnapped and you know, thought she was gonna die. Yeah, so this is like I bet he

That's kind of like you're.

Being like you're a cop, so she you know, a good Cop, one of the SVU cops. So she was on a twelve It was a twelve hour excursion. All the clues were given out by my friends and family. Well, no, the first primate driver and an suv.

Well, the first clue letter to a coffee shop where all her best friends were there.

I love that. You have to know, you have to know.

That's like like that been dating for ten years.

Yeah, I mean you gotta.

Yeah.

I hope you've figured it out by now what she wants Jesus.

Also, again this is old, but I don't know if anyone saw the deadline article came out for the movie I'm in, So that was we saw a surprise deadline.

You know, I didn't even.

Know what was happening. And so it's all the fun actors that are in it. And then my name is in the article, which is thrilling. But I was talking to her friend because so I sent my mom obviously the deadline and then she called me and I was just like I can't talk right now. That's why I texted it, you know what I mean, like, I'll call you later by and then I'm complaining to a friend, being like god, parents are so annoying, Like I texted

And I was like, oh yeah, I forgot.

And she's trying to congratulate you and share in your excitement in a weird way.

I was like, oh god, my mom is so annoying. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, that's true. It's true, it's true. Oh my god, I did give her some news.

I don't know. I have the fever. I have a fever.

Thank god. We have like the pod and stand up and all these things. Like I don't know how actors do it, Like you just get off a set and then you sit down and have nothing to do, like yeah, it's like because it is so exciting, and then I want more, Yeah, I want ye on more sets. It's kind of like what Joan Rivers used to say about comedy, like the worst thing is like the is having an

Yeah, but it was really fun and cool and first time directors that actually live in my neighborhood, so I might might hang out.

And sorry, say what it's called again? Oh damned if you do. Damned if you do, we will all be flooding the theaters as a collective podcast.

And it's you know, it's an indie.

We'll see when and how things like work. But there's so many good actors in it.

That yeah, and I bet it'll have like a theatrical and then go to streaming and everyone can watch them streaming and yeah something, yeah, but you know how.

For Nope by Kate.

I went to the premiere I don't know if you remember, and they were like, you're not on the list, and I'd be like, please, I swear I'm in the movie, Like please let me in.

I have a line.

And they were like, but you can't go to the party, and I'm like, okay, just let me in. But this, like in the official offer it said you have a plus one and you can go to the premiere house like okay, thank you, Okay, wonderful, wonderful. I just really quickly New Jersey Housewives. I know a lot of you

It's funny because the Internet is pissed because Andy's like, don't worry the episode, well you'll you won't need a reunion, and it's.

Like, yeah, we do.

We still yeah, fuck, I could have used the reunion. But it's because there's no resolution.

Like the whole point of the show is conflict, resolute and then resolution, and I just don't see these ladies that were having a resolution.

But I didn't.

I can't do You can't do conflict resolution with Teresa Judaye. She's simply too stupid. She literally just sits there when she doesn't like something you're saying and just goes horror horror, horror horror, like over and over again, like she can't argue like a smart person, and so how could she resolve conflict at all?

You know?

But so basically, I love Marge. I love Margaret. I'm a march I'm like a Marge apologist. Stan, there's anyway.

She's a great housewife, She's in an amazing marriage. She apologizes when she does something wrong and she brings it.

I'm sorry. She pushed a man in the pool, so she sent.

A funeral arrangement to a party that somebody was having for everybody to talk about her. She sent a funeral arrangement and was like, sorry for your loss of dignity. I mean, it's she just does iconic housewife shit.

So basically this whole season is like you.

So Teresa married a lunatic named Louis, and Louis has a lot of like dirt because he's a bad person, and so anytime the dirt comes up, Teresa's like, it's you, Marge, I know it's you. You got subpoena, like we're gonna take you to court. You met with his ex wife, you did this, you did this, And Marge just said she is not throughout, you know, like she's held on

I don't even know how to describe it. Can you describe it? I'm doing really mad to describe it. Okay, so to describe it. Jackie always hated Teresa. Then suddenly this season when she becomes a friend of which is a demotion on the Housewives, she's best friends with Teresa. Okay, like, so their friend and now and now it comes out that she's the one who met with the ex and is probably the one that's been providing her with all this information pre their friendship. So Teresa's like, oh, I

Yeah, she still it's margin.

And then Melissa goes, oh, the sprinkle cookies we could still talk about.

But you're gonna forgive Jackie. You're gonna forgive this right now. And even Jenna Aden was like, she's still processing. She's processing, like she's she's gonna figure this out like later, like because I think it.

Was like two so basically she was gonna get dinner.

Marge goes, you're the one that met with the ex to Jackie, and Jackie goes, Margaret, what are you talking about? That's not true. She said that's not true like four times. And then there was a moment where she just turned in Teresa and she goes.

Well, no, Melissa goes, I don't know, Maybe you should tell the truth. Maybe there's the proof versus there's'sibly proof. Yeah, And then Dolores looked beautiful. I mean, I just want those bangs. Her curtain bangs are everything I dream of, Like I've never envied Laura. It's like gorgeous, Yeah, gorgeous, stunning. I don't know why she dates all these loser men that will not commit to her. I would like give my whole life up for Dolores. Oh my god. When Dolores swore at fucking when she.

Yelled at Marge, I was like, this is oh my My heart was in my chest. I was like, I've never been terrified and turned on like that before. But so then Jackie you could see her thinking about it. It's like, fuck do I tell that? She's like, there's gonna be proof, and then she goes, I did it. I met with her. I met with her.

I like I could not believe it, and then Jackie, it's like you're a fool, loyal to no one, like all of a sudden. And so then she's walking alone and then they go she needs a diaper because I'm scared. I'm sure she's scared shitless, but she's walking and then she sees the women are standing chatting, and then she starts walking backwards to avoid them, Like what a disgusting end, Like I don't even know how her husband's going to be with her, Like I like humiliating.

I mean, I didn't mind Jackie when she first first came on.

I was like, Okay, she's too desperate.

Yeah, but I didn't know that because at first she acted like she was a little bit she's like a former lawyer.

She writes.

She's like, you know, she acted like she was like a little bit smarter than all of them that she didn't really like she would she would kind of call Teresa out and be like, well, how can you say that when your husband's in jail? You know, Like I liked her little call outs at the beginning her early seasons, and then you could tell when she got that emotion that she was like, fuck, I need to be on this show. I want to be on this show, and being at odds with Teresa is not doing it for me.

So I'm just gonna be friends with her.

Started this friendship, but couldn't erase all the shit she did before they became friends, and it came out at the end.

I mean, she lied for so long and then and then Teresa goes and I subpoenaed you, and then Margie goes, You subpoenaed the wrong bitch. Like it was. It was a cool dinner. We're also forgetting. I mean, Danielle, like you, Danielle. It sucks when jen Aiden wins a fight because I think I'm a despicable human. But like Danielle, I'm sorry, you can't resort to physical violence or you lose.

Yeah, but also, you brought up the husbands. You brought up her husband, and then she brought up you, and then she came back at you. But think about the husband, and then it was like, don't talk about my husband's Like no, you brought.

Up the husbands. You got you open the door to that, and then you got violin.

I like don't even know if we've made sense at all to anybody, But it was a good episode and a kind of icon and then they did montages and black and white, like if.

You like and you like, and you like Big Anne, who I've referenced before for Murder, then you might want to just watch this episode as a standalone. It's kind of like very Mafia Wives, Like they all show up and wearing a shack in black, like it's a funeral. It's like their final supper to all hash out their issues, and nobody hashes out anything. So I wonder if it's going to be a full recast or they'll keep like Danielle and Dolores and Marge and build around them, like who are they gonna?

I just wonder.

But like I was watching Watch What Happens that came on after it, and Danny Pellegrino was like, we need Teresa. I've just known her for so long and asked Dolores who would you bring back if you could bring back to and she was like she was like Fessler, I love Teresa, of course I've known forever.

So those were the two she picked, And I was like, I.

Think Teresa, I like Feslar, but Fessler leaving was nuts bad, so dumb I thought she'd Leaven come back or something.

No.

She was like I'm over this, but it's like, no, this is the show, this is your job. Yeah, yeah, you what do you think you're on like a like, I don't know, I'm like a TLC show.

Those aren't even like, you know, wholesome anymore.

But yeah, like it's it's just the end of an era of like the the messiest of all the housewives. They're always the ones that get like screaming matches. The most physical violence against each other probably are the Jerseys, right, would you say?

Yeah? Because Teresa like phys like shoved Andy as well, you know name Yeah, and the.

Ponytail, the guy getting thrown in the pool. I mean there's been a lot of there's been a lot of hands.

Oh, I mean the men fighting and that like therapy thing when it was Joe Joe. Yeah, you're right, the most physical violence is Jersey. Yeah, I think so if you're into that kind of thing. But I don't know, I don't know if they're gonna reak, I don't know. Oh, and this is coming tomorrow if you are in New York. I'm doing a show at Union Hall called Show and Tell at seven thirty, So if you'd like to come to that.

That's some fun people. Wednesday eight twenty one. Yeah, yeah, get those tickets. Although by the time this comes out they might be sold out, but hope go check it. Maybe they'll be stand by. Yeah, maybe we'll see what happens. It's like your Union halls always sell out.

I love that place. I just well, you know, I love New York. Let's not yeah, let's not get me on this. Let's not get me going. Let's not get me going. All right, we'll start the app. We'll start the app. Yeah, let's get going. This up episode is wild.

Okay.

Today we are doing the episode Shattered from season eleven, episode twenty four. This baby came out in May of twenty ten, which is the season finale of season eleven, Stabler's penultimate season. So we open this episode on great moments in child acting.

It's two eight year olds. They're chatting as they get off the bus.

The girl's like that necklace is so neat, and he's like, it's an amulet from the Mossuo people. And my mom brought it for me from Tibet and she's like, so cool, Text me if you figure out those fractions. So Nicholas and Becca are their names, and they part ways. Suddenly, Nicholas is crossing the street, a cab screeches to a halt, just inches from hitting him. Then the cabby gets out

And there's a lot of these starts, like there's one where that's like the girls and the puppy, Yeah, and just a lot of kids are getting snatched in front of crossing guards.

Yeah, right out right, and it's classic intro.

I would say, yeah, it is such a wild thing to do in New York City where you could literally speed down one block and then just be stopped in traffic. Like it's hard to actually be in hot pursuit in New York City, you know.

So now anytime I see an ambulance, I go, oh god, I know, like I would hate to really have an.

Emergency in this city.

It is tight, that's right, and it's clogged, and you hear the siren and you just there's nowhere to go. I mean, I uh so back at the precinct at the time, A BacT one Sharon Stone arrives and this is actually the final episode of her four episode arc as eighty A. Joe Marlowe, I really love Sharon Stone.

But she's also been in a ton of music videos lately.

I was like, oh, what she's been up to lately, And she has been in a lot of music videos, so check that out. She obviously rocketed to prominence by showing her vagina for three seconds and that rocked the nation in the movie Basic Instinct. But then she was also in Casino. She was in a lot of very like, sort of smutty type Basic Instinct movies that came out right as I was like basically hitting puberty, like liver

Well you're not.

I mean, I love the writing, I love everything about it. And they're like, where's the boy and he's like, what are you guys talking about? He takes off his wig. He's like, I'm Gary. It's like, well we figured, I mean, how many employees are at Gary's Gouferama. They find They're like, where's your van and he's like, it's right over there, but it hasn't run in six months, so basically, this

Planning on making.

You know. The fire department is just extinguishing the van, which has been on like lit on fire. So they're like, this purp is a pro. He faked the van on purpose to throw the cops off. A firefighter brings them a burnt up backpack and in it is a book from white Thorne Academy. So that's getting us a little bit more close to identifying the kid. So at the school, the principal ida is the boy as Nicholas. All's a

Point in a song s.

So Joe Marlowe Sharon Stone tells this cop, great job, and he goes, thanks, I have a deaf grandma who will be happy to know that. Why would you be good at lip reading because your grandmother is deaf? Why would that be a skill you have?

Maybe they would practice together, like that was their hangout, I guess.

But it's like I went to college with a girl who was deaf and she was amazing at lip reading, and it was never like you had to know how to lip reed to talk to her or anything. She like would just be like, could you turn your face to me in class when you're talking to me.

We'd be like, no prob.

You know.

Like maybe they would sit at the park and she would teach him, Oh, this is how you do it, like how you read lips.

Yeah, I seed to be a spy. Yeah, so whatever.

I guess this cop who he comes back in episode. His name is Nelson and he is like, you know, the hero for knowing the lip reading. I also do love that girl on TikTok who does all the lip readings of like what people are saying at fashion week and like at award shows when celebrities are talking to each other. She's taken over the world. Yeah, I mean, no celebrity is safe, Like, yeah, you cannot. You have to like literally put your hands up. You have to make a guard.

She's gonna find me you are talking.

She is there. But I wonder how she's monetizing it. I just hope she's making money.

But I would love to know how to lip bread, to be honest, But I don't. I don't know that this guy got tutoring from his grandma.

We'll see.

In Walks Nicholas's dad Paul Olson. So the guy playing Paul Olsen. This is this broke my brain. He's named d W. Moffett, and I've heard that name before. He works a lot. He was like on Chicago Med for a while. He was a regular on the show Switched at Birth for like who knew that had one hundred and four episodes.

At least he was on Friday Night Lights.

And then I google him and one of the first results I see is this movie from nineteen ninety called Lisa that is one of my childhood obsessions. It was one of these like cheap shitty movies that they just put on HBO that I would just catch all the time. And it starred Stacy Keenan from My Two Dads and step by Step. She actually has a podcast that Stephen Morris produces is Now where she and the girl who

I love that. That's nuts, but insane.

Men should leave lyda Yeasher is not insane insane.

If she was out there like following tribes up that were run by men, it would be important work, you know. But because she's doing this, it's insane. She's like traveled all as a fuckedor yeah, he says, she traveled all the time, India, Peru. She was always leaving us. Two years ago, she discovered a tribe in China and wanted Nicholas there right before school started, and he said no, and she went crazy. He goes, she's very smart and

She's I hurt huckabees right, I don't know she's in that.

I don't know.

But she was nominated for an Oscar in twenty seventeen for the movie l which is a French movie and so very it's very rare for like the foreign films to have Best Actor and Actress nominees. I feel like, I mean, it happens like Roberto Benini, I think was nominated, you know, but like you.

Know, this was her nomination she got.

And the plot of the movie, which I read on Wikipedia, is very sv and crazy, like psychologically like wild. So check out the movie El if you into more of that weird stuff.

My heart Huckabees.

One of my favorite movies because that I think it famously is the movie where Lily Tomlin's jo of her screaming at David o'russell, who I'm sure deserved it, yes to an extreme, And that's why I feel like Jennifer Lawrence. He got her so young and then she would do whatever, like you can't fucking don't treat.

Lily, you cannot come for.

Yeah, She's just like I have to do it again and again.

We've got it anyway.

Benson and Stabler want to talk to her inside, so she turns off her African drum music that she's listening to, and they want to talk about why she saw Nicholas in violation of a court order, Like he has soul custody, so she's not allowed to go see him at school. Like that is crazy, Like there's if he does a play, she's not allowed to go watch the play.

Like that to me is like is there a restraining order?

I don't get that, Like why would there be a straight restaining order unless she has physically done something to hurt him anyway?

You know whatever? The show plays fast and loose.

Sometimes she denies seeing him and they're like, babe, we have the footage, like drop the act, and she's like, well, I don't. She seems to not even know Nicholas is even missing, and Stabler's like, let's talk downtown and starts man handling her and she's like speaking French, going what are you doing?

Are you crazy?

And then they take her off and she's like, what's happened to Nicholas? Like they're not even telling her, they're just hauling her off. So when people say they don't like cops, it's like this kind of thing. It's like, tell me why you're pulling me over. Stop being a dick, you know. At the priest although I will say I just got pulled over last week and he didn't give me a ticket. I think because I had my kids with me. So I appreciate that one cop because I cannot you another.

Ticket right now.

She said, I was going like fifty down this hill. It's like a hill where everybody's speeding, and he's like you were going fifty and the speed limit is like thirty five and I was like, sorry, I didn't realize, and he was like like I'm just trying to get home with my kids, and he was like, all right, I'm not going to write you a ticket today.

I was like, thank God. But he was waiting at the bottom of that hill to grab.

I think at first because of the last interaction they had, which I think I talked about on this podcast, where a cop was really awful to Jared and was like banging on the hood of our car. So I think they were scared of and they they afterwards they were like, that was a nice police officer, and I was like, yeah, he was.

He was pretty nice.

Because I'm trying to teach them that they can go to the police, but that they are bad and good police officers. So it's it's tricky. It's tricky territory. So now it's the top of act two. At the precinct, they keep asking where's Nicholas. Where's Nicholas? She doesn't know, but also she's like, I have rights, I'm his mother. But then the dad appears like, no, you're not a mother, raises their child, makes him breakfast, takes care of him when he's sick, tucks him into bed. He accuses her

They separate.

This is all happening like in the precinct open area where they always manage to make two people that hate each other run into each other by accident. So that's also like your kid is missing, so yeah, let's together hill on the fighting and like, let's yeah join forces for like a minute.

We can fight later.

So they separate them and Craigan sends Finn to toss Sophie's place. Sophie is now an interrogation with Stabler and the dad is in with Benson and they're kind of cutting back and forth, you know how they do this on the show. So Sophie, Stabler's like like getting really closer for going where's Nicholas. It's like your sexiness is not going to get her to give up this info. He doesn't know, she doesn't know, and she's like, I don't know, go why don't you go out there and

The dad's at the school, so you know.

And she's like, I study tribal cultures and they exist in remote areas, so I'm a jet set or baby. Deal with it, like, this is where I have to go for my work. Cutting back and forth to Benson talking to the dad, and he's like that kids need routine, they need consistency.

But that's not Sophie. She hates convention.

She thinks he'd be better off with a yak herders than at Whitethorne Academy. And he goes in my book, that's child abuse, and it's like, your book is dumb, that's not child abuse. Like, look, it's probably we should let the kid make it. At eight, I think you can decide whether you want to go be with some yach hurders or be at a.

Prep school in New York City.

The dad, Paul, says that Sophie has never been physically violent with Nicholas, but did get increasingly violent with him towards the end of their relationship, especially when he put his foot down about China. He goes, I put my foot down and she almost chopped it off with an axe. Back to Sophie, She's like, the axe is from the Caramajong people of Uganda.

She says.

Paul was very annagasttre mean girls. Yeah, but Katie, you love ladye Smith's Blackbombasa. So God, your ability to remember these moments, it's crazy and it's so wild because when I'm out in the world and someone's talking about something, I was like, oh, yeah, that's a care that's a Clank family classic.

I was talking to my two friends yesterday and I go, oh, Lisa loves that. And they were like, who's Lisa, And I go oh, she's my podcast ghost.

And they were like, right, right, right, like, but.

I was just saying it like I was talking about you know, one of my kids or something or Jared like, but you know, I know you're like some dislikes, probably better than anyone else besides those three people.

Well, especially when I flew off the handle at the diet coke situation.

I'm sure you snapped. I know I have a note now.

I keep a note in my ass so that I don't fuck up again. So yeah, she's like Paul was trying to destroy all my artifacts and I was trying to save the acts.

I was.

It's not a weapon. It's like a symbol of fertility or something. But Sophie and Paul are both calling each other habitual liars to the cops. Paul is like, please, you have to find Nicholas. I know she has him behind.

Like, honestly, both.

Of you are annoying. Yeah, it's like I don't like either of you. Usually when people are fighting, I like one of them. This, I'm like, I don't want any of you to have custody on it, you know.

Well, yeah, I'll be honest.

The first time I watched this episode, like when it came on fourteen years ago. Her accent was like grading on me. I was like, I don't like the accent for some reason. It's like I know other friend, I know French people. I just her accent specifically, like the way she was talking was bothering me. But when I rewatched it this time, I was like, oh, I'm on her side, like very hard now because you know it's now yeah, and also how the episode fucking turns out.

But let's get to it.

Behind the glass, Joe Marlowe is watching and Finn brings her evidence from Sophie's place and is like, it was a gold mine. So now she walks into the interrogation room and Sophie is like, oh, finally a woman is here. Now she'll understand that I would never hurt my son. Joe throws down a frunch passport for Nicholas and she's like, yeah,

Two months?

That could be kind of like a fun experience. She's like, Nicholas would love it there. Children are allowed to have a childhood and now which I will agree that in New York, growing up in New York City, those kids grow up fast. Just from my two my three cousins that are from there. New York City kids do grow up fast, Sony kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Down about in the train, it's.

Different, yeah, open, and you're getting your own little sandwiches.

I mean, this is twenty ten. They're texting at the beginning. Becka goes, text me when you get those fractions. They're eight, They have their own phones and they're texting, you know, like, I don't know, I'm trying to hold off till twelve or something out here, but we'll see.

Hold out as long as you can.

Because you know, the tech people don't give their kids phones, right, you probably shouldn't neither.

Yeah.

Yeah, and mine aren't addicted to iPads yet, and I think that that's good too. Like we don't really do a lot of iPad shit, So because we don't really, Jared just has one for reading anyway.

I don't know. I think it would help my life. They just I just don't need that kind of pressure.

Yeah, I don't like the idea of the iPad.

Yeah, Like I when I see to let airports, I go, wow, that's cool. But I don't. I can't.

I don't want the responsibility of keeping the iPad and also pad.

And I plug in the iPad. The headphones are enough and phones are fine for me.

Like I can watch an episode if I download some stuff on Hulu before I get onto a flight, like I can watch it on my phone and I feel fine with that.

So you know my memory capacity on every device I have every Yeah thing, I'm just I don't think I can download anything.

We got to get you at ten. We got to get you your own tech guy. We have to.

So Stabler and Marlowe now are ganging up on her demanding to know where's the kid, and Marlow's like, you can can can your ass off, doctor Gerard, but you got some explaining to do.

And it's like, wow, you hate French people, like.

These people are like there's just these little French disses like cam Can that's from like from like the.

Twenties or something. I don't even know.

But Marlow's like, why don't you explain why you borrowed fifty thousand dollars from your parents two weeks ago? And she's like, well, that's not illegal, and they're like, well after that, you started calling a prepaid cell phone and a week later you took out twenty five thousand dollars, and so Sophie's like realizing the jig is fucking up now,

So at first she won't give up his name.

She's like, the man is very dangerous, and then Stabler slams on the table and she sees Nicholas's passport photo and she gives up the name.

His name is Jason cul Ross.

So now cuts to Benson with the info this guy's a Green Beret special ops for the Army, worked for Blackwater after that, spent four years in Afghanistan handling kidnap and ransom cases, so this guy could easily handle a domestic you know, snatch. Turns out this guy owns a warehouse in Red Hook. Uh oh, that's probably never good news.

Uh good burger.

Cragan wants to alert ESU, but Stabler's like, we can handle this if the kid's there. It might be scary to have all those guns. And Cragan's like, well, this guy's a Green Beret. The Army trained him. And Stabler's like, and the Marines trained me. And it's like armed forces pissing contest. Cool cool cool. At the warehouse they're moving in and it's just Benson and Sabler and there's photos of Nicholas on the table. There's a kid play area

I do like douchebag.

I do like yeah, like you know, there's some things that's like you just they don't say on primetime and I'm I say, douchelrd, douchelrd.

I'm much more current, much more current, is that? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been on the cutting edge of that. I've I've always been douche Lord. I'm taking credit for douche Lord. I really am. Love it if you heard anyone else use it. So Stabler announces himself as NYPD. The guy apologizes, he goes, oh, sorry, I didn't know you were a cop, and Stabler goes so she and just punches this guy's lights right for out truly police brutality, Like the guy put his gun down, he apologized, and you just punched him. In the fucking face because he

He's cuffed in a chair, and he explains, like, my job is to recover kids from non custodial parents. Once I found out that Sophie didn't have custody, I told her I couldn't help her. But she he goes, she is obsessed with her son, and live wants to know, Oh, do you give her back to twenty five K? And he goes, that's not refundable. I did a lot of legwork on this case, as you can see from all the photos and surveillance he's been doing of this eight

Is that bad? No, that's same with me.

Yeah, I just why I didn't know they were on every flight, that there was a guy like I had no idea.

So the last moment of their conversation with this guy Cole Ross, he goes, oh, by the way, when I pulled out of the job, sophiasked if I knew anyone that could help her, and I said I don't know any criminals. And then Stabler gets a call on his little flippy flip and he goes, well, she found one on her own, her credit card was just used to check into a motel a Long Island and a man checked in with a little boy.

So they're on the wrong path.

They got to get over to this motel and Long Island red hooked a Long Island. Now that there's traffic at the motel, they've got the place surrounded. There's like a local Long Island cop helping them, telling them, like, we cleared out a maid, we cleared out the people that were in the rooms. And when they bust into the motel room, it's empty, live peeps the adjoining door.

Put a boy in my car.

So then on security cameras at the top of bag three, they see that this guy was just wearing a maid's uniform with like a bandana around his head, so they didn't even clock that it was like not a woman, and the cops waved him off thinking he was a maid, and footage from the parking lot then shows him putting Nicholas into the maid's car, a ninety six Buick the kid looks terrified.

It's really awful.

Meanwhile, the local police dude is getting radio updates from his guys. They're like, we found the car. We're in pursuit. Oh he's here. They are like, wow, he's really flying, like they can tell how fastest guy's driving. And then over the radio they hear, oh, no, he's going too fast. And then there's a crash sound and everybody's face is

Sophie collapses, she's wailing.

The dad throws a chair, but all you hear is like the sad music over everything. Joe Marlow looks shook, like it's just a sad day. In the squad room, everybody looks very upset now because I guess also they're kind of like it was on us to recover this kid, and now he's dead, you know, So now Craigan and the gang are regrouping. The kidnapper's name is Keith Bradman. He's thirty five from Toledo. He's got a long rap

Keeps repeating it.

So now at the other side of the glass, Huong is obviously there to explain that Sophie has become psychotic. Catastrophic stressors, he explains, can splinter and already fragile psyche, triggering a break with reality, and Marlow's like, well, maybe the guilt pushed her over the edge. Hung's like, it could be, but brief reactive psychosis can cause delusions, hallucinations, and even catatonia, and he says it could last days or even months, and Marlow's like.

Well, what are we supposed to do?

Sit on our hands while she gets her brains banged out in the booby hatch? What is that line? I mean that one on the cancn line. Marlow gets some wild ass lines in this episode, like her brain's banged out in the booby hatch. We need Sophie to confess.

Also, I feel like her and Christine Lottie's character, they've crossed paths, they've been together.

They either like love each other and hang out or they like hate each other. Yeah, they like either get drinks and talk shit or they're like that bitch. I'm supposed to be the mean one around here, but you know, obviously before Sonia got sober. Also, I don't agree with the term booby hatch to describe a mental institution.

I'm quoting the show. I want everyone to know.

So they're saying t Juan, well, we need Sophie to confess, and he's like, well maybe this is all still theoretical to her, like make it real for her, Like she's just here with all these cops telling her what happened, but she hasn't, like you know. So Liv goes to get Sophie and Sophie says what in French? And Liz says, Liv says, we're leaving, Sophie says in French, what are

They let her.

She puts it on, She's saying sh tem, she's kissing him. Marlow and Benson dig in on the questions like tell us what happened, how did you meet Keith Bradman, And Sophie is like, I don't know who that is, and she's just like weeping over her son. Then in walks Paul, like, I get it when they're letting paths cross in the precinct somewhat, But now we're at the fucking morgue.

Is they're not a log?

Can we not keep these people away from each other? The dad who is escorted by Nelson, the cop with the deaf grandma, comes in and he's furious, like, get her away from my son, and he wants the cops like to take her out or whatever, and they start just screaming at each other in the morgue. These two like it's a wild fight. They're physically pushing at one another. The cops separate them, but in the scuffle, Sophie grabs Nelson's gun, so now she's holding a gun on Marlowe

At theously, No, Melinda's around, Yeah, seen her continue. But I can imagine the stress of watching this live. This must have been a huge water cooler moment. Oh my god, like exactly, our girl has been shot.

Yeah, like we've seen Also, season finales is a big time where they kill people off, you know, so like this is the season finale. Like I think when I was watching it, we probably all thought, fuck, they're not getting.

Rid of Tamertuni, right.

So liv runs to her, Yeah, begs Sophie, let them call an ambulance. But Sophie is like crazed and she refuses, and Liv is just sitting there like like Marisha Harget does such great panicked trying to stop the bleeding, but like look of panic.

On her face, you know, like she's very good at that.

So at the precinct, Stabler is getting Bradman's phone records. Craigan arrives and he's like, dude, shots fired at the morgue. Stabler takes off like a shot, no pun intended. Back at the morgue, This motherfucker is still taunting Sophie.

He goes, what have you done?

She goes, it was a mistake, but this is not and she she wants to shoot her ex.

And I don't really blame her.

Marlow approaches Sophie before you know, and is like to ask for the gun, and she's like, what's the plan?

Are you gonna shoot me? Then you're gonna shoot Benson.

Sophie's like, well, if I have to, And Warner is grimacing in pain, but tells Benson she's doing great, keep up the pressure. She's directing Joe where to get the gaw Melinda is just like directing her own life saving operation right now.

It's like really amazing.

Outside the morgue, stable arrives, Nelson is like sorry, she got my piece, and Esu is at the GWB for a jumper, So hostage negotiator is thirty minutes away.

Stabler decides to jump into that role.

He announces himself to Sophie and sends Nelson get me the blueprints to the building. Now, Stabler's like an architect, he can just like read blueprints. I feel like there's a lot of blueprint moments in this show. Sophie says, no talking or I'll shoot all of them, so she does not want to talk to the Stabler. Suddenly, Melinda

She needs a chest tube.

So Marlow is like, please, dude, this woman is dying, and Sophie's like, no, no, this is a trick.

I mean again, she's probably.

Still in a bit of a psychosis, a psychotic break that she's having. Melinda tells Marlow what materials to get, but live is like, I don't know if I can do this is like, then get ready to watch me die. It's really really intense. She gives live instructions on how to put in a chest tube. We're watching her cut live with a scalpel with no anesthesia or anything like they put on data Die.

Watch that movie with Sandra Bullock and Melissa McCarthy, The Heat.

The Heat.

The Heat's one of my favorite movies. I love it.

I love when Sandra Bullet cuts someone open.

It's like a huge disaster. She has no idea what she's doing. That movie is so fucking good that much.

Yeah, that's another sexism thing like that should have been the number one talked about hit thing ever, like I saw about the Spy who Dumped Me? Like these are such funny movies. I saw Heat in the theater.

I loved it immediate, like I've seen it on TV a million times, Like, I love that movie so much.

I think it's so good. They are a great pairing.

I don't know why there's not been like a Heat too, because they could. They are so good anyway. Caitlyn Olsen's in that one. Yeah, it's so good. So yeah, she's instructing live how to do this test test tube.

It's so wild.

She and it's the tube and Melinda can breathe again almost immediately, and she says, good girl, and there's a lot of relief. But they're like, Sophie, girl, what's the endgame here? Like what do you want? She's like, I want my son back with me and Paul again, this fucking clown is like, you want him back? Don't you get it? He's dead because of you. She shoots up at the ceiling. He tells her she's out of her mind, and Sophie's like, don't you dare talk to me like

That's one of the like movie tropes that's like so far from reality.

The shaft's moving.

I just saw something about how like they're tiny, like the way we Prussia media.

Yeah, like it's for a man his ass. You think air shaft can carry Stabler's ass? No, No, it's for air. Is so funny, that's true, like you know what it usually goes in there? Air, But that is always in movies and shit, people escaping through air shafts.

But it is fun and I like them crawling. No, I mean, I'm sure it's so hard to film. Now that I think about it, it makes me so claustrophobic to watch those things. Oh my god, I get so so claustrophobic.

But Benson is now calling the Morgue on the phone, but Sophie won't pick up. She's like, I need quiet. Nicholas is sleeping, he needs his rest. Maybe they should call Huong. Honestly, it feels like this woman is seriously going through something and he could be a great person to have there at the time, you know. Marlow answers the phone and is like, Olivia, Sophie wants you to stop calling, Nicholas needs to rest, and hangs up and lives like fuck. She's still kind of off her rocker here,

Boy, she says.

Marlow asks Sophie to tell her about Nicholas and he she well, so Marlowe is like, all right, I'll try another tack. Now that she understands what's going on, She's like, why don't you tell me about him? And she goes, he was the most beautiful baby everyone said.

So.

He like boy things, cars, trucks, trains, We used to ride the metro. He asked questions. He had the mind of a scientist. He should have traveled the world with me. He should have lived, but you took him away. And she points the gun at Paul, and Sophie says, I have nothing without Nicholas. My life is over, and Marlow tries to tell her that she'll find a way through it. It feels bad now, but things will change. She's like, how do you know have you lost a child? And

Now yeah, I.

Literally wrote a masterclass in gaslighting. Like I'm not a fan of this guy, but holy shit, what an absolute piece of garbage bottom shit, Like not only have you are you responsible for this entire thing, but even as she sits there waving a gun with a woman dying, you're still antagonizing her, trying to get her in her psychosis to it a psychosis which you induced essentially through the police and through killing her son. With your actions, you're trying to convince her to now go to jail

Essentially, yes, but in the guise of I want to be with my son, but you don't give a fuck about your son, Yeah, just.

Care about punishing her. Yeah. Oh it's so gross.

So now Stabler opens the vent on the air shaft like full mission impossible, lowers himself into a refrigerated room that's filled with like dead naked bodies, you know, for at Melinda's house, and Marlowe is still trying to counsel Sophie or at least hold her off from murdering anyone else. Stabler busts into the room and before Sophie can shoot, he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm on your side. I know you're innocent of the kidnapping, hiring Brandman the

So fucking bonkers, Like the moment is bonkers.

She's just holding a dead eight year old, going, your son needs you, and it's like I thought we were done with this game.

Like she knows he's dead.

Sophie drops the gun, Sabler grabs it and shuttles Paul out of the room.

Marlow hands Nicholas to her.

She cradles him and speaks to him in French to Tim and then starts singing like kind of a wordless lullaby to him. Stabler and Benson look shook as fuck, like they are like, oh my god, what we've put this woman through, what this woman has gone through in the last twelve hours, Like, well, it's not even been that long. She's in the same outfit that she was in when they brought her in.

Yeah, and now everyone thinks that you did it and you're crazy because then a part of me is like, I like to defend women. But then when she was going, you know, hand Morgue, I was like, she is crazy. Yeah, yeah, something to really worry about. And then fucking find out that twist and she was gonna steal him. But again, I feel like that's all part of the fact.

I'm glad that he's somehow he was willing to kill his son.

He somehow finagled her losing custody, and that would make me feel insane as well, like all I've done is travel for my work and now you're you know, like, I don't know, it's it's really fucked up anyway. That's dick wolf baby, that's that's that episode shattered a wild one. I know nothing about any of the real cases, and you have a lot of info to tell us, So let's get going.

Okay, So listen, do I have a bad habit? I do.

I there's three crimes, and one of them I fully did all the research and then I went, huh, this has nothing to do with the episode. So I had one of those, and every time this happens to me, I'm like, girl, you gotta be better.

But then I just get interested.

And then I was like, oh, let's see if this case is in any other episode, we could could just use it.

But it wasn't, and we have to hear about it.

But there's two cases that pertain and one maybe you can figure out, Okay, maybe you can see the connection. Okay, but it's the cat. But we, you know, we like to learn about this stuff, so it's fine. So this is the case of a sluty and I hope I'm saying it right. I just don't want to say slutty. That would be kind of wild. So I'm going to assume it's sluty and sluty case. So Anthony Zappa is twenty nine years old at the time of this case.

She was gone.

There's a lot of conflicting reports, but from five to seven days he took her from Nebraska all the way to Montana, hundreds of miles away. Very very scary, you know, going to another location's cross state lines. And she was a really smart girl. She left the trail of evidence for authorities to follow. During her time being captive, she left clothing, bloody tissues, and trash cansa in rural Montana cabins and just like she was just leaving shit everywhere

Shets, yeah, like.

No, this guy, It was like this is where I'll go to jail. Please don't murder me right now, iahree. And that's I like, you know, I like him reasonable. So he could have asked for like one thing. Okay, So sergeant is also quoted in ABC News that she was very relieved at being freed, which I think is you know, expected, she was relieved being saved. I don't know why that's you know, arising quote.

She was pissed, like, you know, I'm sure.

She was related.

I didn't have to be with a kidnapper anymore.

I'll tell you that that was all big weight off my shoulders.

April twelfth, two thousand and one, ABC News reported at one twenty eight am that the kidnapper, who eluded police for two months, surrendered peacefully. She was reunited with her family and friends, and she got off a private jet.

I mean, this is a cool scene.

Like obviously she's been through a lot, but like she gets off a private jet and an FBI baseball cap and a bruise under her right eye, which sucks, but it is a really badass image.

Now was this guy, Like, was this guy kidnapping her kind of just to hold her, just to hold off the cops, right because he was wan for so many other crimes, right or.

It was his last big crime. I mean, he did go, he did do bad things to her. Oh he did okay, okay, sorry, sorry, So I think just I think just a career criminal, looney tune evil. So I mean they all shriet, they were happy to see her. And so then during the trial, Sludy gave a tearful testimony where she described being sexually assaulted by him while detained. Of course, his lawyer did the classic BU can't oh you had sex with him

And then to have a lower use it as like, oh, you wanted to stay, why didn't you?

Yeah?

Is like so like even to think that is so brave.

He's also bringing her to like these states like Montana, Nebraska, like I'm sure remote areas where it's like, what is she gonna run for twenty miles until she finds someone to help her, like a cabin in Yellowstone, Like what where are you escaping to?

Good fucking you know, stick me.

But because also what I don't like about this attorney is like with you know, if you're making big money, okay, but it's like you're a you're a public servant for the evil. So it's like you're not even you don't even have a nice car, Like you're just doing.

That Like your job should just be to like find out if this guy had like a like a mental disease or defect, and like try to not get him the death penalty. I always say, my uncle's a death a public defender, and he's like, I'm just trying to get people to not have the death penalty, that's all.

Yeah, And even from his opening arguments, he claimed that Anne consented to leave with this man and she could have escaped. He claimed too, that her voice on the nine one one call was too calm and collected, and that it's not the voice of someone that's been subjected to abuse, because he knows how people should be acting. He also didn't get why she didn't use any of the weapons that he had, and she was like, because I thought I could get hurt, Like, what are you

He yelled at the judge.

He called him Captain Kangaroo, and he screamed that Nebraska's prejudiced. This man is white, you know, but Jewish. The judge was Jewish.

I don't know. He also yelled, I hope you all rot.

So the federal judge, Warren Herbaum, said that Anthony can watch the trial on a TV through a video link and will have complete access to his lawyers.

But don't worry.

He was brought back in court just in time for her to take the stand. He blamed pills on his behavior in court, though she I mean continued to describe being hog tied, stuffed in a trunk. He threatened to torture and kill hersh and she feared for her life. He beat her and sexually assaulted her. And outside of the testimony, there was a lot of evidence. His DNA was on her clothing that she wore when she was taken.

Cannot. It really fucks me up.

He did receive a life sentence, and he had to pay only forty thousand dollars in restitution.

I don't know. I think they could have upped that.

Anne's mother was quoted in court that she felt like justice was served and that it was a tremendous relief. And that's according to a local ABC seven affiliate in Omaha. He was not charged with the assault, but he got life in prison or whatever. His attorney, one of the attorney, James Martin Davis, said this is interesting. Okay, So he

Good for her. Sorry, was this the one you think wasn't connected?

Of course? Why was this on the wiki? I feel like I had to write it and say we have to take it out of the wiki, like and it's my fault, Like usually I do remember, and I checked, and I'm like, make sure it's the right one before you dive in but in this I was like, huh, well, that's interesting.

It feels more like it should have been for the episode where the little girl puts her headphones inside the seats so that they can find her. It's like the girl like was such a good like leaving a breadcrumbs for the authorities.

But now and I search to see if it like fit any of the other episodes. But like, I'm also wondering who's falsely putting these things in the wiki?

And but it is like a kidnapping. There is an interesting case. Yeah, there is a kidnapping. There was a negotiation. I guess whatever, let's get to the other ones.

Okay, So this is the case of Alice Krimins.

Okay.

So on July fourteenth, nineteen sixty five, Eddie Junior five and Alice Marie Crimmins, and they called her Missy, aged four, they disappeared from their q Garden Hills home in Queen's and they were found murdered.

So the dad Edmund I know.

Is a thirty five was a thirty five year old airplane mechanic, and it said that he called police at eleven am to report the disappearance of the children after receiving frantic calls from his estranged wife, Alice Crimmins. And this is according to the NYC Department of Records and

Is a giant gap.

After the children were found, the couple did reconcile. They reconciled with their sadness, but then separated again August nineteen sixty nine and then divorced a week later. She was very attractive, She was a party girl. She had like a main boyfriend named Anthony Grace, and she loved to drink and dance, and these things obviously like had a negative impact on the public.

Perception of her. You know, it is what it is.

She was a queen's cocktail waitress, and you know they called her the swinger of the century and a murderess, and.

You know it was.

It was sallacious, and she became the number one suspect in their death. Anthony Grace testified that they were actually having an affair at the time, so when the kids were kidnapped and murdered, so it could not have been her, and we do love an affair alibi. So September nineteen sixty seven, with very little evidence, there was an indictment filed against her by the Queen's County District Attorney's office

Bad Boys.

In nineteen seventy one, she was convicted of the murder of her son and then the manslaughter of her daughter. Because we'll get into it, but it's double jeopardy. They couldn't do it again after those charges were dismissed because it is obviously a lesser charge. And then the prosecution wanted to establish that missus Crimmins killed her daughter in a fit of anger, and then with the aid of gangsters, had her son killed because he had witnessed the strangulation

Here right, And also how could they not prove that the Sun's death was caused by a murder?

Like like what were the forensics?

I wonder, you know, like if he wasn't in his bed, there's no natural causes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the trials and appeals ended up spanning ten years and it and I already yeah, it's the double jeopardy rules. And during this span she would make bail, so she was out during these times. And she had a very active dating life while she was living with her mother at the Bronx, and she just like went out on dates all the time. And she was also known to have like outbursts in court. She's screaming, I didn't kill my children. She leaped from her chair at one point

She didn't have these items.

And also there were possible traces of sexual abuse found in the autopsy. And so when Edmund was on the stand, the prosecution asked him, did you murder your children? And he replied no, and neither did my wife. And so he said that on the stand. And that's according to the New York Times. And obviously this woman was hot because she's out here, you know, killing kids. These men want a dater. She's like out and about. People were ready to watch. There were lines around. At seven am

And it's like, you know what, because she's fucking I don't know.

And then another woman said, no, I'm also a mother of six, and I think it's fucked up that she's being judged on her sex life and morals. She's being crucified by the public opinion. And during her time in prison, she was this is wild. She was part of a work release program where she left the facility every day at ten am and had to return by eight pm, and she could even leave on the weekends, and she was staying at Parkside Residential Facility at ten Mount Morris

Yeah, that's so, I've never heard of that.

So she ended up serving five of the five to twenty she was sentenced to for the murderer of the daughter, you know, finally the manslaughter charge. She was in a minimum security prison, like I said, and on her way out she was smiling and exchanging goodbyes with the correction workers.

The Queen's DA John J. Santucci.

I can't even think of a more Queen's das man than DA Santucci. And he begged the parole board to reject her request for parole and to remove her from the work release program, but everyone said get out of here, and so she got out of prison, and she ended up marrying her boyfriend Anthony, who visited her regularly. Well, she was in prison and he was rich as fuck, Like on the weekends during her release, she was on a yacht all summer long. She was on a yacht

Oh my gosh, that's nuts. Oh poor babies.

Yeah, yeah, I really wonder. Okay, So the next case is a sunni you know, what is it?

What is it?

State University, New York, Albany hostage situation committed by Ralph Tortorichi Tortorichi, Torturici.

It's toder Ichi torter Rici.

I'm like sounding it out like a top child, but I just want Tortolini now, and this is killing me.

Okay.

So thirty five students at the State University showed up December fifteenth, nineteen ninety four, to class on the last day of history of Ancient Greece. They ended up being held hostage for two and a half hours by a psychology student with a rifle who was ranting about micro chips in his brain. And what's wild is this is nineteen ninety four, so I'm sure this was really shocking and huge, but this is truly like such a daily occurrence now that I wonder. I don't know, it's just

Oh my god.

So he like grabbed the rifle, he disliked it from the gunman's grip, and it like shot in his abdomen, crutch, thigh this, and so that's when the standoff ended. So this nineteen year old sophomore from Long Island lunged at this gunman and then so he's wounded, and then other people from the class jumped in and began to wrestle the gunman to the ground. His injuries were really bad, you know, it did result in his inability to father children.

And it just makes me.

Feel like, think about the Valdi situation and like pumping fucking hand sanitizer into their hand as like kids are being shot.

It's like, so it's just so fucked up.

And that's why I'm annoyed that it was made to feel like we had to feel so bad for, you know, forty five getting shot When I'm like, I don't know, none of you care about schools of children getting shot, Like there's no empathy there, But suddenly I have to be like, oh no, and it's yeah, I fucking hate it, so yeah, I just can't.

I don't know.

It's like the cops aren't preventing the crime, and then they're also not helping the crime. And then they're coming in. After all, these students risk their lives. So Albany police arrested Ralph J. Trderici at twenty six years old and charged him with attempted murder. While he was escorted out in cuffs, he yelled stap government experimentation.

And that's according to The New York Times.

The cops said that he was angry, lots of irrational thoughts throughout the nearly two hours of negotiation. Very little is known about this dude, and he did have enough credits to graduate, and there's absolutely no record of conflicts involving him in the university, So I know it's not about that. I really do think this man suffers from schizophrenia.

But yeah, so that's the kid. That's a kidnapping, and.

You know the shooting of Melinda, Yeah, that's a hostage.

That's a hostage.

So these are the three cases that I researched until five am.

So hope you enjoyed that.

And now we have an interview the Guests of a Lifetime that we are so pumped for. So don't go anywhere. Changed my life, honestly, our guest today, what do I even say? An absolute SVW legend. She's also known for her role as Attorney Jessica Griffin on As the World Turns, as a power lesbian on Sex and the City, and recently starred as Whitney Houston's mother in the Whitney Houston biopic Whitney Houston, I want to dance with somebody, which I'm obsessed with. But you guys know her best as

Hello, mine ly we meet.

Oh my god, it is a dream. We have been dying to get you.

We've been harassing our friend Diane Neil to try to back channel to you. We've been trying all of our avenues and finally the day has come. Melinda Warner is here on the podcast. We are so excited. I don't even know where to begin. It's hard, hundred episodes.

Where to begin?

Where do we start?

Do you know how many times you have said semen on the show? Is there an official counter?

Not enough? Not enough? Back season twenty six, Let's better back?

And we love to talk about how like the earlier seasons, like seasons like well we call them like the Neil Bear years, like seasons two through twelve that's had like so much humor, which of course Richard Belzer was a professional comedian and iced Tea is very funny, but like you have so many funny lines like you. We do this podcast like on the road sometimes for live shows, and we usually do the more campier episodes, and there's always like a few more Linda clips that we show.

Are you saying, oh my god, like booty dust.

Like just like you get to say all I remember that, you know, like I say it all the time whenever anybody has a little glitter on them, I'm like booty dust, like you know.

Well, and not only funny, you can also tell that your characters passionate in it and does not take shit and plays by the rules. Well not always, but you have because you have your detectives back.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I had a great part.

You speak for the dead. As you said, I speak for the.

Dead, I know, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Well, and we've noticed with like not taking shit from others. We also we really love your dynamic with Rollins and how she doesn't believe you in episodes and you kind of have to like, I know, if I could.

Say girlfriend, I would I would be like, girlfriend, do you know who you're talking to?

You know?

It's funny like because they never they until her.

She's a little bit your nemesis at the beginning, like she's like, yeah, you guys have this tension.

Because she kind of like she kind of took Stabler's place in that because Stabler would sometimes question or challenge or doubt not have to set him straight, you know, so she kind of came in with uh, with that energy, you know, the new person and and bringing that new person energy into the into the scene.

Yeah. So yeah, there's a couple of times I would have to set her straight, and.

Maybe we are stretching here.

But did you ever feel like there was some kind of romantic tension between you and Finn Melinda and Finn.

Absolute, okay, absolutely, just double checking that we're not making it up.

It was written into the script, and you know, they toyed with us with the idea that something might happen, but then it didn't.

Okay, no, but it leaped off the screen because in our heads were like she had a husband, who were like they are into each other?

Yeah, that part.

I had a husband, and so when I when we had that scene, I remember saying, but wait, I'm married, and they're like, no, you're not, You're not anymore.

And I was like, okay, Yeah, Like you mentioned, Melinda gets to mention.

A daughter once and a husband once and that she had a dog named Pete once.

And I feel like that's all Yet, No, a sister that was a buyer for Sacks.

That's right, that's what I forgot about my sister.

We don't we don't forget.

I was that guy, like Kara mentioned our live shows, one of our trivia questions was where does your sister work? And where does she work? Sacks Fifth Avenue?

Who's the fire for Sacks? I only wore scrubs, So I had no idea that.

But your character and Olivia and Merka's character always know the high end stuff, like you guys are always like, ah, well these these are from.

You know, this designer, like exactly exactly. They leave it to the ladies.

The ladies, No, we can't afford it on a city salary, but we can fantasize and we can, you know, look at magazines exactly.

So you just came back last season of OC, yes, right, which I watch, but I am behind, so I have not seen your episode yet where you cook at What is Melinda doing when she comes back into that episode?

Well, it's it's so interesting because I had completely forgotten that there was an episode of SVU.

Maybe it was a crossover episode. I'm not sure.

They all kind of start blending as you and OC in particular, I think.

Finn and.

Benson had come into the morgue to talk, you know, for me to give them some information on whatever happened to the poor victim, and so as as they were leaving, I called Olivia back and I said, you know, I reached out to to Stabler with my indolences with what happened, and you know, he never responded, you know, and she said something like, yeah, well he's you know, he's going through some things like of course. So cut to earlier

A gun shot before the mosque blew up.

So he wants me to he he comes in to ask me to look closely at these photos and to determine if this person was shot before they blew up whatever.

And so we do that whole thing, and then he's having.

You know, kathy blowing up flashbacks as I'm giving him the information. And then as he's about to leave, he doesn't about face and he comes back and he embraces me, which is totally out of character for Sabler, as we know, right, he embraces me, and so so I'm.

Like, what the fuck is going on? You know?

But I'm like, okay, it was this for you know, and he's like, you know, I got your message and thank you and blah blah blah. So it was I think the purpose was just to have that human connection, you know, for Stabler and you know, maybe plan to see that you know, Melinda might be around every now and again.

You know it'd be great, but time will tell.

Let's let's bring her back please. Who wouldn't want that? Like it's they need you back in there.

Yeah, you know what I need.

I really miss And a lot of fans tell me that that they really missed the science.

They really missed, you.

Know, the the intelligence of the science and those puzzle pieces that put it together. And they say, you know, they learned so much and it was so interesting and et cetera, et cetera.

But you know, as you said, leadership change.

And Neil was Neil was a doctor and so he was very much an advocate for that medical science stuff, you know, which was which was really great, I mean, and it really added, you know, another level to the show.

I think, yes, we know what Pika is because of SVU, Like I know what a million different. Yeah, we just covered the episode retro where you go up against Martin Maull who recently passed away, and he's an AIDS Denier and you have all this like great information. You know, it's like just in case you happen to be an AIDS Denier and you're catching an episode of SVU Melinda Warner's laying it out pretty pretty simply for you to.

Follow exactly in late terms.

Yes, yes, which you know, I think today, of all days, we need more science so that people can stop like denying science.

You know, I agree.

So, and it was you with the science and Huong with the psychiatry. I liked both of those aspects this episode. Do you remember this episode that we're talking about today, Shattered where you get shot? Oh god, Isabel my favorite yes Bench actress of all time, one of the most famous Yeah, I actress.

Thrilled and honored. I was so thrilled and honored. And when she when she arrived on set, you know when I arrived, because they had already been shooting the episode. So when I arrived on set, you know, I made a beeline for her dressing room because I had to tell her what a fan I was of her work, and you know, and she was.

She was.

She was blown away because pretty much very you know, hardly anybody who knew she knew who she was on that set, right, And so when I was telling her, you know, I love this movie and I love this movie, and I mean, she was just blown away. So I was very excited that I was going to be shot by Isabella whupear.

Oh my gosh, I love that. That's so great.

And that was a very touching episode too, very tragic episode.

You know.

The young boy who played the sun. I remember we were we rehearsed the scene and you know, and they're shouting and you know, she's waving the gun and her shouting, and he's under the sheet, and so we cut the rehearsal and we're talking and I glanced over at the sheet, just because I'm very conscious of my victims. And usually I'm like, you know, let's let's take the sheet down so they can breathe, you know, or if we're outside, I'm like, can we get something warm under this poor

February, you know.

But I glanced over and the and the sheep was shaking like this right, and so I I, you know, I was, and people were talking, and so I went over and I pulled the sheet down and he was crying and I was, and I you know, and so I said to the to the ad, I was like.

Can we get his mom in here? You know, can we get his mom in here right now?

You know?

And so his mom came in sold, you know, and I told him this is pretend. You know, nobody's upset, nobody's getting hurt, you know. But it was just like and it was always when her children were involved. Wherever children were on the set, you know, I was just so you know, aware of them and very protective of them.

I mean we all were, you know, but yeah, but particularly if I had to deal with them, you know, it was you know, it was always kind of emotional, you know.

Yeah, I can't imagine yeah, and as like a small child actor to be like okay, just stay there, like you have to be dead, like don't don't move, Like I can imagine that being also very nerve wrecking, like what if I move, am I gonna get in trouble?

Or you know?

Yeah, you know, and and I'm sure like his mom probably read in the scene, but you don't know what it is until you're in it, yeah, you know, and that energy that's in the room, you know.

He just yeah, but he was okay after that. He was really good after that.

Well, Nicholas, I was gonna say, it's also such good actors that I can imagine feeling that energy.

And yeah as a kid, yeahs an adult, yeah.

Like Kauza Balu pair is there like having her mental breakdown and waving a gun around. You could believe that's real, like as an adult, let alone a child.

Yeah, yes, absolutely. And and as you mentioned, it is difficult to play dead, you know. Yeah, you've had so many actors because everybody's like those real dead bodies. I'm like, well, no, they're not real dead bodies, they're real people, you know. And so you know, for actors to like hold your breath and don't let your eyes blink, you know, and and when you're you know, when you're trying to be still is when your eyes you get very self conscious in your eyes.

You know, want to twitch, they want to do rems, sleep whatever, you know.

And so so it's it's, you know, it's not easy being a dead body, yeah, you know, and particularly they're always like starting the shot on the dead person, right and we're talking about them, So they have to hold their breath and keep their eyes still and dah dah da da da until you know, and and sometimes you know, we'd give them a word, you know on this word the camera's not on you anymore.

You can breathe blah blah blah.

You know. Yeah, well, you like speaking of these dead bodies. Like there's some scenes like especially in like I think earlier seasons and stuff where Melinda's like, they'll go into the Morgan you're just like giving notes into a recorder, but you're like taking livers out of bodies and stuff, like you're actually.

Handling thinking about that taking the liver and put it on the scale moment. Yeah, because when we first did it and rehearsed it, they had gotten a liver from the butcher shop.

It was the side.

It was a cow's liver, and it was massive, and the victim on the table was this you know, five foot two, one hundred and ten pound woman, you know. And I was like and the first time I picked it up, and I swear it was like this big, and I was like, you know, and I said, I said, there is no way this came out of this person.

Can we like?

That is so funny?

Yes?

Did you ever get squeamish about any of that stuff, like having to do any of the actual like Melinda warnering like.

Gross dead people stuff. No, I never really got squeamish for two reasons. One because you know, I was a science.

Kid and I loved biology.

And you know, most of the things that I learned about anatomy I learned in ninth grade.

And I remembered when I got this part.

So I always tell young people, you know, who want to be actors or go into this business, I'm like, you know, study do well in school, you know, pay attention, learn everything you can possibly learn, because you never know when you're gonna use it, when you're gonna.

Need it as an actor, you know.

Yeah, and so you know, some great advice, but it's absolutely true.

And so you know, as far as the skeletal I mean, I knew all the bones of the body, you know, I knew where all the organs were in the person's body. You know, I knew all that stuff coming in. So I always say that, you know, and oh yeah, I grew up in a funeral home, and so the mortgage is part of my life.

Oh my gosh.

So it was was your family like was your family like of course when you got this part, like you know.

They were quite proud. I mean, it's you know, it's very different.

A medical Examiner's office yeah, it's preceds the funeral home, you know. But you know, in my day, you know, I I have you know, done the hair of a deceased woman or I've done a light makeup of a deceased person, and you know, and we lived above the funeral home, and so there was always you know, a.

Deceased person in the in in downstairs. So it was just normal for us.

You know.

Wow, very six feet Yeah, so that's that. Wow.

When you got this script though for Shattered, and you saw that you were going to get shot, where you like, are they killing off Melinda? For like a second, were you worried that they were?

I was, But then I got to the last page and she said, I am not dead.

I am not dead.

Vultures back up right.

Like even she's funny, even when she's getting wheeled away with an almost like a could be deadly wound, you know, in her chest. But also you're like that whole scene, I mean, we just watched it to be ready for today, but like that whole scene when you're like directing your own chest, your own intimation is like so insane, Like listen to you with the intubation. I watch a show I watch Law and Orders for you a lot. And how was working with Sharon Stone in that scene as well?

Yeah?

Oh that was great. She was great. She was great. She was very interesting.

You know, it was very interesting because at one point, you know, I mean it was a very interesting, you know, dynamic between you know, the two female leads, you know, and so you know, I could feel the energy in the room, you know. And and so at one point, you know, when we were rehearsing the scene, when we got to the point where she has to cut me, and I'm telling her to get this and da da da da, and Sharon Stone was like, well, I think this,

Be you know. I was like, wait a minute.

Yeah.

But she was terrific. She was great. She was great.

Well, like, we just covered the episode where Olivia finds out a guy that she had slept with five years ago was HIV positive and you give her the test on the down low, like for her privacy and so you're there. You've got their backs too, but when it's not going to be a goal, you know.

And Melinda comes to a Libya's apartment after she has adopted the child to.

Give her the information of who the father of that child is. You know who was Johnny D.

Revealed Johnny D reveal the criminal, the sociopath.

Criminal is the daddy a baby daddy? You know?

Do you you know you remember so you said they're all a blurb, but you really seem to remember a lot of very specific episodes.

Actually, do you have.

I watched the damn show.

I know, I know people like I always.

Watch the marathons.

I'm like, so, lie, oh that's you must be like, oh that was a fun day, like when you're watching them aera exactly.

And also it's like it's back you know.

It serves multipurposes, you know, because it's like, if I want to have the television on but not really have to pay attention to it because I'm doing something else, I'll have that on. But also I travel a lot, and I'm in different countries a lot, and so you can always find Law and Order on television in every country on the planet. So it's also very comforting when I'm away, you know.

Yes, we call it a hotel show as well.

Like if you're in a hotel and you're not watching you, you're not watching you know, USA or sv wherever.

It is exactly what you're doing exactly.

It's really nice to know that you kind of have the same relationship with SVUW that so much, so many of us have. It is our comfort show, and I really do, I really do.

I also just to pile more compliments on you. I was obsessed with I Want to Dance with Somebody. You were amazing in that. I thought that movie. It's on Delta now and everybody needs to go see it.

It's great.

Thank you.

I loved it because a lot of biopics I think miss it, and I really thought this was a great one.

Thank you very much. That really means a lot to all of us who worked on that.

You you were so great. I didn't know a lot about her relationship with Sissy. I didn't really know, and I was like, she's not a bad guy, but she's not a total good guy, you know, like complicated you know, complicated relationships.

Yeah, complicated relationship yah, yeah yeah.

And then also yeah, you're welcome. And also I loved diet Land and I was sad to see it.

Oh that's my last, that's it, no more.

I loved diet Land.

It was so good, and.

I loved your part in that one. And you know, of course I'm like, oh my god, Melinda Warner's in this.

I'm sorry. I know you're a.

Separate person, but I thought it was really wonderful. And yeah, it was annoying because it was like, it felt like it was canceled because it was a woman's show a little bit.

Listen, I'm going to tell you I truly believe because you know, that first season was you know, it was successful. You know, people was catching on and talking about it. People were talking about it, and they actually opened the writer's room and so we were greenlit for season two and they opened the writer's room and the writers had written, you know, the second season, and you know, it was a week or two before we were going to start shooting, and they pulled the plug.

And I really, I really believe.

We started shooting the first season when the ship hit the fan with Harvey Weinstein.

I'm pretty sure, uh huh.

And you know, but I truly think that show terrified the men who were in the.

Decision making position to keep the show going. You know, I really do.

I think because of the culture.

Yeah, that I.

Really do, because there was no other reason that that show did not move forward.

Everybody was talking about it.

I was dying to know what happened to everybody. They had a powerhouse cast. Yeah, like it was. It was crazy.

Anyway, thank you, I mean thank you because those are important shows. And I've had the privilege of really participating in things that are you know, in the zeitgeist, if you will, or really part of the conversation or really anticipating the conversation that's.

About to happen, you know.

And so I've been I've been really fortunate that way that that these things have you know, have come my way, have been presented to me, and I could participate them that really, you know, spark conversation and challenge people's thinking.

You know, it's really great.

And SVU has done that a lot of times, where they've had episodes that come out before a big thing breaks or like a thing even happens, you.

Know, yes, yes, And the premise of course of Law and Order is like ripped from the headlines right, that was how the original even came to be. So they were taking they were taking the headlines and writing these stories, you know, And we do that a lot on our show our and I still say our show because even though I'm not there, it's my show, and you know, but also as just and we take it and put a little twist on it, you know, writers put a little different twist on it.

Whatever.

But also there are stories that have indeed kind of preceded events that have happened and almost been like a premonition.

Yeah, it was to come, you know.

So they had an episode about Epstein way before that really broke yes, way before. Yes, So it's really that's just my example. Yeah, during the pandemic.

Was it pandemic or was it after you reunited with Diane Neil again for that rules that Circle of Deception?

Yes, that was that was during pandemic. I would say it was after lockdown.

You know.

We were the first production, the first TV or film production to come back to work, and we shot it up in Vancouver, and so we were very much kind of the experiment as far as in the guinea pigs, as far as protocols for COVID, you know, wearing masks, and and who could be in particular zones, you know, and and you know, but yes, but and we had a good time and and and you know, my mother loves.

Lifetime Movie Network. But you know, it's not my.

Cup of tea. But I will say that that.

Movie was good. It was really good.

Yeah, we watched it, and then we did a Live with Diane on the night that it premiered. We went on Instagram Live with her and like talked about it and we wouldn't.

Believe she went on it.

We were just gonna talk about it and then we couldn't even believe it.

She's like, I'll get on the live.

Memorable moment. Well, Circle of Deception was one of the first back. But was so is SVU. Like you were in the Quarantine episodes and you guys started in New York.

I feel pretty hard.

Yeah, yeah, it did come back because I went to Vancouver to shoot that, and then I came back and in that September did an episode of SVU. Yeah, and then like either the end of September beginning of October was when I went to New Zealand to film Cowboy Bebop.

Oh yeah, yeah, and let it's.

Crazy they were allowing people in because they were so locked down.

We were so locked they were so locked down, and they were very strict, and there was no COVID because they were very strict right when they when you arrived, you know, you didn't know where you were going to quarantine. Yeah, you didn't know where you were going to quarantine. And so I flew all the way across the world not knowing where I was going to be, you know, and I couldn't tell my family, I couldn't tell my agents,

Where you would go for your quarantine.

And so I ride there after eighteen hours on a plane and it's five o'clock in the morning, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm here in Auckland, and they're like, no, you have to get on another plane because you're quarantining on the South Island in christ Church.

And I burst into tears.

Oh no, because I was like, yeah, yeah, another plane, but yeah, so I had to go down there. So I quarantined and it was at the end and you know, they were serious, like the soldiers met your plane you know, they weren't armed, but they were in uniform, and they met your plane and they escorted you the baggage clane get your bags and they helped you with your bags.

It was very nice and some of them were quite good looking. And then they escorted you to where you're going to quarantine.

And so we were in you know, I was in this room, this hotel room, you know, at the airport in christ Church, looking at you know, the bus parking lot for two weeks.

And there was an occasion.

There was occasion for you to go outside and get some fresh air, but you had to do it in particular groups.

And you got a.

Wristban with color that told you what time you could go. And there was somebody there checking your wristband. And then they had put a chain link fence around the hotel like terrace patio, and so there was a fence and then there was three feet and then there was another chain link fence because a lot of people who were quarantining were kiwis, you know, and so their families would come and visit, you know, And then there were people like you know, jogging around the circumference of it. There

This is yard up in.

Here, up in here, this is the yard, you know, and the US could never, would, never, never get people to do it. Then you do your quarantine, you know, and you go and you're back into the world. You know. There was there was no COVID, so everything was open. There was live entertainment, there was restaurants, there was it was. Everything was open. It was normal, you know. So it was pretty amazing. And I was like, see, that's what female leadership can do.

Yep, we hear that. We hear that. Well, you have to get going, but do we have any do we have last minute?

I guess, I guess if if you can, how are the SBU Christmas parties?

And then we need to know?

Oh they were always fun, always fun. The Christmas parties were always great. And also the the rap parties were always great because the rap parties we would get to watch the blooper reel.

You know, and so that was all. That was always fun. That was always fun.

And I was always happy when I made a blooper reel because I didn't do a lot of bloopers because.

You know, I just don't roll like that. You know.

I come in, I'm prepared, I'm ready to do myself, you know. But then we get to the blooper reel and I'm like, darn it, I should have messed up so I could get for real, you know.

But it was fun. So anytime I made the blooper reel, I was.

Like, yeah, that's the best.

Are you still close with people from the show, like who I'm very close with Christopher, with Christopher Chris and his family, Yeah, I just was.

I just spent the weekending with them, like for the July weekend. Yeah. Wow, we're very We're very very good friends.

We're family, and I love them and I love that Low and Order gave me that, you know. Yeah, but this.

Time we love Melinda Warner so much and it's just been such a pleasure, and you're so incredible and this was such so.

I feel like we could talk to you for another hour, but we all have to go.

Great to meet you both. Thank you so much.

I mean, can you even believe it?

I we need her back like we need her for a second part. It was so hard to get her just for one and now I'm going to just be barking down her door for another one.

I mean like that, I could have talked to her forever. She's so smart and cool.

Yeah, it's just there's you know, the funeral home of it all, the like, yeah, loving science, the like well, dashing towards other actors.

That's right, say I mean Maloney.

Yes, It's just she's is so cool and hard working and yeah that was life changing, I would say.

And she like sings and does theater. I mean, she's so multi talented. But I keep thinking about that now when I watch sview episodes, I keep going I miss the science, Like I really miss her in bd Wong, Like the science was such a good part of the show, and it's kind of gone now in the newer seasons.

Yeah, it's tough because we love all SVU, but it is.

It's just it's just different.

Yeah, they just don't They're they're never finding out like, oh there's this really specific thing where you can have sex with people while you're sleeping, you know, like these lower like peak Pika or like stuff we don't like we didn't know about.

I honestly wouldn't even know because I haven't watched the new season.

I watched maybe two or three episodes.

And stop of twenty five. Yeah, like I haven't been. I'm sure it'll be a day where I sit and watch it all. You know, I have a TV now, But yeah, I just I guess it's like they're they're probably trying to keep up, like quote unquote, with the times, and it does feel more like a sort of a netflixy procedural where it's like darker, like their offices are more modern, Like it's more I guess maybe what I imagine Criminal Minds.

To be a little bit more maybe, but I don't know.

Well criminal minds they're always on a private jet, are they, Yeah, because they're the FBI, so like they got they got a fly or something like that.

But they're flying around to the case and just like.

You know, I would just love there to be instead of the world's most powerful soccer player, most powerful lifeguard, most powerful real estate agent in New York. Like let's get the old crimes where it gonna be happening to anybody, and like the answer is in the science sometimes because I do miss that.

And I liked when she said that I miss the science.

Yeah, and for like the Inside Scoop, we interview Michael Beach from Low Down and then Tomorrow Tuni in the same day, and it was just like back to back heaven, just like passionate, hardworking people with like so much to learn from and it was a life changing week. I would say I couldn't step talking about it, like, yeah, I was so happy and she, I mean in the beginning, I don't.

I don't think we knew how to handle ourselves. I feel like we were too just like and then you did this and we loved it and she was like, uh huh, it was like hard for us to even like realize what was happening.

But and the memory, I mean the memory she.

You know, she's kind of like me, no big deal, but really detailed memories of every episode.

I feel like she's ever done.

And that was right, and she's been in hundreds, I mean, she's been in so many freaking episodes. Yeah, she was I mean a delight, what a delight.

And I love that she confirmed that Finn definitely wants to fuck.

Yeah.

Yes, I'm like, like that was on the page or was that you guys just having fun?

Well, you also.

Met these like two very dedicated actors, like just as you were working on a movie too, And I feel like that like was helping you and like you know, inspire you, and you helped me because I.

Liked I forgot who said what, but it was like everything around you.

I think tomorrow like can be.

You never know when what you learn will come to like to be to be what is the word useful? Like you never know what knowledge, what skill, what moment, what person you can like reach and like use in this one moment in time. And I also with Michael Beach the way he talks about like preparation, preparation, preparation.

Getting ready for that walk.

And talk and like just being so ready, and I just I loved it and their passion. And you know, it also brings up like how separate black and white Hollywood is, because when I brought up Michael beat to one of my black friends, he was like, holy shit, waiting to sale, like that's a hero, and so like that's kind of wild. I wish we I wish there was less racism. So yeah, black famous people like Viola

And I don't. I didn't really know him past this episode.

So yeah, it's just like to make sure you're watching different things, like watching things that aren't quote unquote made for you. Open your eyes, see different things. And I am a hypocrite. I don't want to read a subtitle to save my like, I don't want him.

As I'm saying this, I'm lying.

But whatever, this is a huge episode for us, a huge get we've been trying to get tomorrow up for I would say the beginning of day one. Yes, Day one, she you know, she works hard, she's out and about. We're so glad we trapped her, and I think, I hope I see her again.

Yes, oh my god, to run into her in person and be like, it's me from Zoom, I would love it. We got to get to our what would Sister Peg do? That's our weekly segment where we direct you towards an article, a blog post, I like to say.

A.

Documentary, an organization, something to give you more info about what we talked about today. And obviously one of the characters in this episode today was suffering from not only being gas lit, but serious grief, and so we'd like to point you to the organization Our House Grief Support Center. This is a group that provides community and support to grieving children, teens, and adults who have lost something significant

Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize you did a show for them. That's incredible. It was great And next week we'll be doing Ridicule Season three episode ten.

Wow going all the way back baby, See you next week.

See us live, buy some merch, go on Instagram.

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And do what you can for our democracy. So either postcards or like whatever. Yes, register, get people registered. All right, guys, Thank you so much for listening. See you next week. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

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As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so.

Much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.

Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at exactly right media dot dun