Shadow

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable. We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories.

Done done.

Hello, welcome, So that's messed up an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger and we talk SVU crimes. Sometimes we have guests. Not today, spoiler, but listen. We're back from July fourth, and I mean I was in bed pasted.

Out by ten thirty.

Oh my god. I was at Coney Island for twelve hours. Oh yeah, that'll that'll take it right out of you. That's how it's crazy. It is what hours, like nine to nine. Yeah, So we got to the beach at nine am and then Paul's daughter this like bar restaurant we like on the boardwalk, that's kind of an institution. We went there at right at eleven as it opened, and we were there and then it was then we were drunk.

So yeah, we played games. I don't know if you saw. I wanted well lane.

There was only one man with a big gaggle of women, and he won all the toys for us. I saw Elaine was the hero of the day. I did see that. Well, he came back to the table. He just went to the bathroom and came back with a little Pikachu. So then we were like okay. And then he just kept winning us toys, and we all had demands and all of us wanted different toys in different games, and he was just doing it so good. I love that. Yeah.

Also, he like looks like a Kendall. He totally looks like your guy that you're like, hey, cute strong man, go win me a toy, and he's like be right back, you know, like that is like Lane's look.

So yeah, he was just knocking down milk bottles, those milk jugs in one toppling them down, and these are scams. He popped balloons with a dart thing.

Like.

These weren't even just simple. Because then we all played the water gun games, so I don't count that as a win because we were all playing against like, we were all trying to win Julia this one thing, like for the demand. But we rode the rides. I went into that ball, got jumped, you know, thrown in the air. But we were also just like drinking all night, smoking weed, so I got home and ate taco. I mean that walk home from the train to my apartment. I looked like,

It says blue dress on a.

Boat And I made it and I really like it, and a girl in line went loved the tailor, and like, I was like, yeah, you guys are all like, well, it's very popular.

It's like liking the Seinfeld.

It's like everywhere you go you can meet a Seinfeld fan, a Tailor Swift fan, Like liking popular culture is fun because you can connect with people.

Yeah, it's Taylor Swift is the monoculture.

Yeah, it's monoculture, and I'm okay.

It's a bear. There's barely a monoculture anymore. And if there is, it's Taylor Swift.

Sorry I keep babbling. But it was also Lane's birthday this past week, and yeah, I sent him a text, and so I made him bracelets as well, like of his girlfriend's name is Cat's named Florida the bills. But I made some Seinfeld ones and I'll share them with you. Love it. One said the big Salad and it was obviously green and fun. One said the moops, the moops that's from Trivial Pursuit from the Bubble Boy episode. The answer was the moors boost the moops.

A little upscare, a little scare.

And then one that just said serenity now with like serene colors and like a smiley face. But it was it was really excite. I mean, I love it. I'm a little fat. All of a sudden, my brain broke open and I went, I can make people bracelets.

Let's say anything, anything, it doesn't even have to be Yeah, truly, I've only been making tailor bracelets for months, and all of a sudden, I went, well, I like other things too.

Hold on, people have birthdays. I can really spin it around. Well, somebody, one of our listeners, gave me a ww OBD bracelet for one of our things, and I posted on my table, I'm holding it. I have bracelet. I have beads everywhere.

But Rosie put it on as a headband and was wearing it over of July weekend.

So I did post that on our Instagram and.

The kids looks cute. The kids looks quintessential Fourth of July. Yeah, they were being cute. They loved it.

It was kind of Oscar's first year of him being able to like be away, stay up and like watch the fireworks and stuff. So they had a great time. We went to our friend's house and they have like older kids that are like seven and nine and their boys and like fireworks are illegal in La, which is lol because people are truly lighting them off, like out of like baby carriages. I mean, they're like going off crazy everywhere. But they were like, we went to all

They were in heaven. They loved it so much.

Also, I have to tell you I was sleeping in the other day because it was Jared's morning to wake up with the kids, and he showed them Beetlejuice without even though I had said I think it's too scary.

Turns out I stand corrected. Rosie was not scared at all.

She was pissed that it took so long for me Juice to show up on the screen, and she was annoyed he was not wearing a black and white striped suit the entire time.

She was like, what he's not wearing? Me out? I really, I already texted you this, but I feel like Rosie's going to Beetlejuice for Halloween. Love it.

I would love it. It's pants, it's perfect.

He's so good.

I can totally get her Beetlejuice. But here's what's crazy. First of all, we're in the car today talking and she mentioned something about Beetlejuice and Oscar goes remember when the sandworm is chasing Barbara, and I started laughing so hard.

I don't even remember yes, I'm like Gena Davis.

Like he he doesn't know who Geena Davis is.

He knows who Barbara Maitland is from Beetlejuice. Well, you guys can be them when they turn scary. That's kind of a classic out high in costume with the eyes and the big mouth and stuff.

And Rosie was like, whatever, the sandworms weren't scary. They were just like the snake in Jack Skellington. And I was like, actually, they're the same guy who made both movies. Like, she's she's seeing the threads between Tim Burton movies.

She isn't an IMDb household and it's coming out. Yes for sure. Wow, She's yeah, she's gonna be She's gonna be winning cinematrix by the time she's like six.

Family that we've been, we've been like total. We've been taking them to so many freaking movies because it's so hot. So we've taken them already to see Inside Out, to Garfield and we just saw Despicable Me four on this weekend, so we are and not in this weekend, but next weekend, Jared's taking them to Lelo and Stitch at the New Beverly I mean, we're we're all over the place here with movies, and they are they're gonna be cinophiles. Yeah, starting with Leelo and Stitch and Beetle Juice.

Yeah, I'm so happy they like Beetle Juice. But I knew it because they like Halloween.

Yeah, they loved Jumanji. That was another Lisa wreck. They watched Jumanji and Rosie was like, they were asking me so many questions about it afterwards, like when the boy turns into a monkey, why is he talking because he wasn't talking before. I'm like, I don't know, he just starts talking.

But they were, Yeah, they we had a fun little fourth I mean a stampede. It's a fun movie. David Ellen Greer. I mean Robin Williams. I mean we talk about him all the time on the pod.

Yeah, true, A true treasure.

Oh my god, you know how I'm addicted to trying to be a regular at my coffee shop. I did see one of the workers at Coney Island, but everyone was like, leave him alone, and so I didn't say anything. But he noticed me too. The little shop was talking like they were like, he said, you were there. I'm like, I knew it. And I got another free coffee. Yeah, we both we both clocked each other. I mean I go, yeah, I live, you know right here, and they were like, yeah, we see you here all the time.

Okay, so here's okay. So on fourth of July, I actually did escape my family for a couple of hours and I went to my our friend Nicole's house for a pool party that was no kids, and I was like happy to leave them at home.

And she also doesn't just have like a regular house. It is like a gorgeously unique tiled skull. Yeah, we're all like I've never I've only seen on the internet, but.

Yeah, it's her house is beautiful. But it was also nobody was really allowed in the house for the party. She had like the door shut and was like no inside, Like she had people in the poolhouse like to change and use the bathroom and stuff, but like no, I think she wanted to keep everybody outside. Yeah yeah, but but like when I go over, she's very into showing off all of like because she's done a lot of cool renovations to it, so I know she likes to show it off, but I don't think she wanted to

Like what did you do?

And she basically she you know, she tries to be kind of like a stern but cool mom. She's like, my daughter has friends whose parents are like never around, and so they call me when they need help. So I'm trying to like stay that person that they'll call. And I'm like interesting, like, but she's also like, my daughter will tell me stuff and I'll be like that's unsafe, that's unsafe, and she'll be like, if I'm going to tell you stuff, you can't say that, like you can't

Boozball?

Do you know what I'm talking about. They're like busbos, buzzballs, buzzballs.

I never heard of them. They're always like at the checkout of a Binnie's liquor depot or something.

So I had never heard of these, And these are the hot things with the kids now because like, first of all.

The flavors are wild.

I mean, like she.

Told me her daughter was drinking some kind of like you know, lemonade, cotton candy bullshit that's like made for like kids, but it's also like plastic, easy to like put in your backpack.

I didn't realize they were.

Also there's a market for those because of places like the Hollywood Bowl and places where you can't bring in glass but you want to like bring your booze.

Yeah.

So then I saw they have these huge buzz balls now they're like the size of your head. I don't know if those are called like mega buzzballs or what the fuck?

What are the biggies? They're called biggies, But what do you do with them if they're the size of your you just chug it product. I think you bring them to a party.

I don't know, like, but she was saying like she would pick up her like one of her friend's kids friends bags and be like this is pretty heavy, and then like I'll put it up and there'd be like a biggie buzz ball in there, like the huge and like I just am like really strapping in for teen

Like what let's try it for?

I mean, I just think sometimes these pre mixed cocktails, especially like this ball type situation too sweet, Like I don't want you gotta be care. I think you should try it before you invest and bring it to a concert.

I also went to a party that was a book party, so there was like sponsored alcohol and I don't know the name it and I want to talk shit on it, but like it was like a cosmo in a can and it was truly disgusting. Like I was like, did anybody taste test this? Like this is horrible, and I like it wasn't even too sweet. It was just a bad taste, like I like sweet shit, you know, but it was well, but I think some people are getting it right.

I like the way highnuons taste.

I like, uh, but that's that's like there's a little seltzer to it, right.

But high nuns are alcohol like, like white claws are malt liquor, I think, but high nuns actually have like tequila or vodka in them.

Well, one we did. I did shoot my first day with Michelle again Survival of the Thickest. Yeah, season two. Maybe it was fun. It was like really fun. I just like I like feeling when I'm a working actress in New York. I love it. I love it, like one of our guests. But then I should have ca I knew I should have canceled. But I actually had a great time. But I had a bar show where my spot, like two shows in a row er, is eight thirty and eleven in this bar, and I'm like,

Yeah, I was gonna say not exactly the right amp up fuel for getting on stage to be funny.

No, people were like, are you working on your set.

I'm like, no, I would say I'm a horrific murder a horrific murder article.

But I literally brought my laptop to Rosie's gymnastics yesterday and was finishing some of my research and I was like, if we're all on Risers there, so I was like, the person behind me can easily see that. I have my split screen up and I'm watching an episode of SVU and researching a murderer like at the same time, and like I have the captions on for SVU and it's like, oh, so it's SMM stuff. Oh a Little Dog and Pony show, like you know what I mean. Like, it's just like they're not good.

They're not good to be in a kid's gymnastics place.

So I was there online, but I had a great chicken wrap I do like a tiki bar, and you know what it is, Like some of our listeners were there. Someone was wearing a Benson shirt, so shout out Tia. I was like, you're obviously a listener. I can't believe you're seeing me like this. But by the time I went up, there was maybe eight people people were off the street. I mean it was like a bar show where not everyone knows there's a bar show. Oh so, you know, it's just been a while and it was

Just it for comedy.

Oh well, my god, I'm so fucking annoyed. So there was someone that I hate going up and my friend had just gotten off stage and she killed killed. So she got off the stage, we chat, she has another spot. She runs around the corner. So this motherfucker, while she's not in the room, starts making fun of her but not in a fun way, and they're not friends, and this person sucks. So all of a sudden, he goes, yeah, give it up for that lesbian. She's not gay, But also,

I go, of course, she fucking killed.

Then I wake up the next morning to a screenshot of a message he sent her going, hey, I just got yelled at on your behalf.

I did not yell. I was in the showroom.

If I had yelled, I would have interrupted the show, he goes, and then he writes, in front of a large group of people, I go, I couldn't have done it more respectfully. You got off stage. I didn't even talk shit about it. I went right to your face and said what you said was fucked up.

He's also calling a girl who's not a lesbian a lesbian, like he obviously has no grasp of reality.

Like now he's like an alt right maniac, you know, like no one likes him, Like most of the servers were coming up to me to be like, I hate him, but now I've written tons of new material just at the hope of me going after him again because if he just he doesn't know who the fuck he's fucking with, honestly, but also how dare you lie? And it was just like this is what men do. This is also like they record all our sets. So I wrote show or the tape. Yeah, roll the tape like the Unions, roll

Yeah, it has to be funny. It has to be funny, funny is funny? Yeah, what you just said, she's past her? Like she's true, I don't know.

And it's like you obviously don't value women also, so like fuck you, but I can't wait to follow you again. Bro oh god, ill gross. But then what happens with these people because this used to happen with this other comic that it was always there. Now he's successful, even though you know things are so unfair for her white men.

Were like clapping like amen.

And so it's like if it was your friend, you'd be like, oh, actually no, no, no, I actually hate you. And it's like, no, you want that you did it on purpose. And I was in the fucking room. I usually leave when you go up because I hate you so much. Oh my god, wait for you to tell me who this is off? Mic. But Anyways, I was just so mad that I saw that message. I got yelled at. It's like, honey, please, you are not yelled at. You want to, You'll know what you're gonna yelled at.

This is okay, this is worse, and this is like eight months old. Yeah, we're pivoting to a gossip corner now. But we realized we never talked about this on the podcast. A few of you have messaged us. I actually heard about this on who Weekly the other podcasts that I that I listened to, because I had I had seen the message that went up where he posted to his Instagram saying like like, respect our privacy while we go

You know?

We love this so together for decade two days, right, decades?

Yeah, like singing together, this and that. So I don't think anything of it. But I did go to her page and see that she had not posted anything, and I was like, interesting.

Then I didn't think anything of it.

Then I listened to this WHO Weekly episode where they talked about how what happened was he apparently went over to Australia to do Groundhog Day the musical, and he was there for like a long time, fell in love with his co star, then had her or fe come all the way out to Australia were allegedly and this is all alleged. I really like both of them and don't want to, you know, get them mad at me or whatever. But I'm just saying what I heard on this thing that he like kind of they had this

I'm so can you not be so cliche?

I know, it's like crazy, I don't know, and the whole parade, because then if you were like, listen, I fucked up, don't come visit. I am cheating on you. That's one thing to pretend all is good and then it switches. That's a psychopath. Sorry.

And also why did they not put Orfe on Real Housewives of New York, Like this would have been a great storyline, you know, or it would be great on the Real house She was telling us that she was like, you know, interviewing for it or whatever. But Share is her godmother. I'm sure that she will. They're hanging onward and upward, they're hanging out. I'm sure like or Fe will be you know, bopping around Broadway more and I I mean, I wish her the best. Wait, one other

But she had this.

Story about how one time on the set of SVU, her and Judith Light had a conversation about being child free by choice, and Judith Light was like.

Let me tell you something about people that don't have kids.

We're fine, like and they had this like there's this great quote in it where she's like, Judith Light is the one that told me that I would have like a great fulfilling life without kids. And I was like, hell, yes, I love imagining that conbo of like Judge Donnelly and Cabot just chatting about how they're gonna be fucking boss bitches.

And not have kids.

I have kids.

Look, I love my choice to have kids. Kids are wonderful. Just not doesn't have to be everybody's choice. And I think these two women are examples of two women having an amazing life without kids.

And yeah, it's you know, the thought of Judith Light and the thought of them just hanging outch.

Hanging out chatting.

I thought, like I always am assuming the words I thought you were gonna be like. And then Dan Flora came up to them and be like, yeah, you gotta have a baby. JK, he's child free as well.

Like Dan Flora walks up and goes, I'm really into lectation Born No, no, we gotta stop this, we gotta stop rock.

I don't even think SVU has tackled lactation. No, the only show I.

Know that he was like, he was graphic.

He goes, I just wanted to squirt it in my mouth and we were all just like jaws on the floor.

American Horror Story is the only show I know that is fucked with that. And that's because they fuck with anything, all right. Casey's seriously about to wave a thirty flag at us. We've got to start, but okay, we're starting. Don't say anything. Check that's messed up live dot com.

I'm coming to Toronto.

Yeah, and we've got some great merch up there, some tanks for summer, some teas for summer. Get up there, grab some do you have children detective stuff and also all of our promo codes are up there as well. If you want to support our the things we do promos for so that they keep promoting us, that would be wonderful.

But let's get started. This episode is iconic.

All right, Lucky ducks. We are doing Shadow season eleven, episode twelve, so that's pretty thrilling. And we were just talking that this is camp. This is the most one of the like you would think the one with the monkey out of the basketball is crazy. Honestly, that seems more realistic than what is the The silly.

Way this one rolls out is hilarious to me, Like there are so I mean, I can't wait for us to get into it.

It's the funniest episode.

But what I love is that I think I've maybe only seen it twice, so I was forgetting a lot of details like I remember Navin Andrews coming in, I remember like the basic plot, but I was like, oh my god, what Like I just remember, like I love when I see an old one like that I haven't seen and it kind of feels new to me again.

But also like she is a good actress and it is like, what are you doing like this? Yeah, people for the Camp Red Carpet should have worn a TV with this episode playing and they would have gotten on my best dress list for sure.

Wait now, I really want to know now that you say that, I really want to know where this fell in Sarah Paulson's career, Like it's twenty ten. She wasn't doing twelve years a slave and then going right to SVU right, Like there's there's no way, right, Okay, let's see twenty So.

The Vulture game it's every day now weekends too. Ooh, I guess something yesterday that had zero percent? Zero percent was how many other people guessed it? That's amazing? How is that? Like they're like, you're the only one, You're the only person. I think I was because it's in pyramid and you do get lower percents than that first drove pyramids. But I guess the movie Andre, did you watch that in the nineties, The Girl with a Little Seal with the Seal? Yeah, So I don't know why

You just have like these classics from like Cable and stuff that we but able.

I saw in the movie Theater my brother I got Swizzlers. It was a huge moment in my life.

Well, she, Sarah Paulsen, was like mostly a TV girly at this point. I would say like she was in desk stylish is yes, true, but she was in like twelve Years of Slave Carol, like Oceans eight, you know, like she started becoming like more of like a lot of Oh my god, she was in the Goldfinch. I read that book and never saw the movie. Anyway, My point is I could see why she did like this episode she did a graze the same year, you know what I mean? Like, or she plays why does this

Also, since I did just say lucky duck, I do just want to give a shout out that I did see a family of geese and I'd never seen baby geese before, so it was like five of five babies and two parents, and it was really cute. They're gray and fuzzy, and I understand why they're so protective of they're young, because the.

Classic American family. I love it.

I don normative vibes.

And this starts out normal too.

A butler kind of man walks into a home with an eggshell yellow wall. I would say color just very I liked it. I really liked it. And so then there's fresh flowers. We could tell this is an affluent situation. The guy yells out for mister and missus Gillette, and then he goes its, Hey, it's Mike. You know, do you want me to load the luggage? So maybe it's

Okay, Okay, spatter is for a liquid that is scattered in small drops, while the ladder is used for a liquid that is sprayed in large amounts or in a random, careless manner.

Okay, those both sounds similar, Like there's big splashes and little so there's splatter and splatter of book okay, yes, while ceiling, bedding or outfit. I mean, it's a dead couple and we're at an active crime scene, so an unknown tech, Ben and Benson and Stabler are there, and it's an initial vibe is murder suicide and and the did you not think it was wild?

That the guy pulled back the If that was you, if you walked into a bedroom and you saw a comforter over something lumpy and blood truly coating the walls, I don't think I would touch the comforter.

I don't think I want to open it. It might be one of those situations where you lose control, you know, like where you just have to look or something. And I guess because if somebody was alive there would you would see movement of breathing, or you would hear whimpering or something. It's like, just I don't know. I was I thought it was kind of wild. The chauffeur was like, hello, like, but yeahbe it could have been one of them the other maybe that one of them could have been like ugh, yeah,

Bed by his hand.

Benson was like, jam, why would he turn his wife into chopped liver? Which now I'm craving honestly, Okay, sorry about that cough. Well, honestly I had that cought a FedEx and I the guy went, oh, summer cold. I go, honestly, it's a cough that won't leave. I I smoke too much weed. I go, I'm just gonna have a coff with the rest of my life. He goes, oh nice, I'm gonna comp your envelope since you like weed. Oh nice? Can you believe it? What a day?

It's like Lisa I like, it's like Lisa Trager's neighborhood.

Like you're just coming around getting a boba, getting free envelopes, talking about weed with the post office.

It's a fun that's a better cartoon.

But anyways, okay, So Elliott goes, h oh. So Benson's like, why would you turn this wife into Choppliver And Elliott goes, ah, well, you haven't been married a get a life Elliott, yeah, so, and and your wife is a saint. Yeah.

It's like you want to kill Kathy. She's not staying home enough raising your five children.

And it seems like she's hot for you. It seems like they do have romantic scenes. She's taking care of all your kids, she doesn't care when you come home, like what do you want? It is just kind of like cheesy, old like people making fun of marriage kind of thing. You know, Well, for sure, I just think he's kind of in a great situation. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah.

It's just like it's kind of wild to me.

So we're back, We're in the work hallway and Craigan's like, why did you duck out of the Geleste early? Warner said you were gone by the time she got there. Okay, playing hooky, but they said they needed to take the daughter home. She was a mess, and so they didn't really get anything out of her though. So Craigan says that Warner threw away the murder suicide theory. They look shocked as hell, even though they were on the scene

I just I don't like when they go against type.

There's just like little moments where suddenly Benson goes, I don't know, she feels like she's lying to me, where I'm like, Ben's he would not do that. Like, I just don't feel like they would do this kind of bad detective work. JK. They always jump to conclusions. Okay, so the gunshot wound to Daddy Warbucks. Craigan says that So was inconsistent with self infliction because no gun residue on the hand, So double homicide. And they better do

But like, are they committing that much crime any this way?

Like why on speed or just rich people give to cops because they are succession vibes murdering people? What is up? I don't know. That's a great quest.

I mean, you definitely do it so that in case anything ever happens, you've got them in your pocket.

I would say that the true crime that.

I'm going to talk about is gonna maybe illuminate a little bit of that.

Wow, I'm really excited about that. So and a lot of political pals.

Okay.

So then Benson goes, okay, but this isn't a DV case anymore, So give it to homicide piece bitch, and he goes, nope, they are special victims. And Stabler's like what because they're rich and connected, And he goes, yeah, so go do it. So I like that even the higher ups know that these are an elite form of detectives. You know, So craign sends the duel back to the house to check it out with fresh eyes.

Okay, so the glass whatever.

So basically we see that one pane of the glass was cut out of the home and it's easy to put your arm in, reach around and open the thing. And Stabler's being kind of shitty, like, oh and you missed this. He's like, yeah, we were in the bedroom. You guys are the ones who jumped to conclusions. So then the detectives are also like, well, how did it

That is good police works.

So then it's like, well, this is a hack job and a blowjob, so I mean a hack and blow is what I wrote, But then I felt weird saying that too. But there's okay, so there's guns and hacks and so so it's serious violent, So this can't be some straight I mean, it could be a stranger, but it seems like there's some passion behind the murder. So they go talk to the daughter, Sarah Paulson, and she

I want that life. Are you kidding me?

Yeah? Just to go to an island for four months, that's cool, amazing. Yeah, I guess that's what snowbirds is. It's not a new concept, but for some reason, I was like it hit me in this moment. And Santa bell is beautiful. It's really close to where I was going to the beach as a kid because my grandparents lived in Sarasota and the beaches are gorge white sand. So then the question as well, well, who knew they hadn't left yet, and she says me the staff and

A place that doesn't have security camera like all like either's so I feel like there's so much security, like when it's a painting that expensive. But I also have to point out that the guy playing this Galerino is Nathan Lee Graham, who plays Todd in Zoolander, which is, to me and my family a very iconic role. And he's also in Theater Camp, a movie that you and

A lot of stuff, but he's really like kills me.

Zoolander is pretty amazing. I did watch an embarrassing clip. I think this was from last summer, but it's Ben Stiller like talking at a tennis game and the tennis player legit turns around and goes, are you good at tennis? And Ben Stiller is like getting scolded in front of the whole fucking stadium by this tennis player who's like, then stop fucking Like he doesn't swear. He goes, then stop talking that I don't tell you how to act, do I. And it's just like Christine Taylor pretending she

It's like it honestly so cringe.

I don't know they were still together, but I make a break and then they got back together. Oh good. I like that.

Yeah, but Zulander was his first gig, and he's Todd. He's like Mugatu's like guy, and we would always be like, why is there phone in my latte?

Todd? Like my family life?

We like always talk about Todd like he's like one of the funniest characters in that because there's like also weirdly sexual tension between him and Mugatu.

It's like so funny. Anyway, Wait, what a great first roll. I know, damn Zoolander. That is a classic, and I hope it's treated as such in the future. It Like I love it so much. It's goofy. Yeah, Ben stillards just started taking himself so seriously, like he used to be just so funny and silly.

And yeah, I mean there's a freak gasoline fight accident in the movie.

It's like everything is in Zulander is So.

I mean that movie just hit me at a time where I was like, oh, this is like the funniest movie I've.

Ever seen it. Like they used to make more wild parody type movies like that, and they just like don't anymore, you know, no, and now it's all about him being Walter Schmidt taking a world adventure a lesson, you know, it's so annoying. Yeah, or what was the Greta Gerwig movie he was in Greenberg? Yeah that I hate it. Yeah, it's Noah Bumback's dumbass. Yeah, I have this old gross man. Get a hot, beautiful woman with personality, and you get to be a piece of shit with you know, negative Nancy.

So we're still in the gallery.

And thank you for the taught update I was just I knew that you were gonna mention him, so I didn't even look him up, like I just knew. But yes, as Kara mentioned, this place has no cameras because of privacy. Okay, you have a roth Co and you don't have a camera. Cool, So it all seems fishy. They go to the jewelry store and it cuts to the employee. They're going, yeah, we have fucking cameras.

Smaller the better. Yeah, he goes, we have him everywhere.

My brother runs security in the back and they ask about Angela and he smiles softly goes, oh, Annie, of course. Oh such a classy lady, very old school, and she loves to buy and wear ice and pay for it and cash and bought a watch on Wednesday. And they ask if they saw someone follow her, and he goes, actually, yes,

So and they find him.

It's Naveen Andrews from Lost, and I think he's pretty famous for dating Barbara Hershey for a really long time and it and both him and Sarah have said no to the podcast. So if you were hoping for a big surprise this episode that we did try, we did try. We did try. Yeah try. But also what's funny is they both are in relationships with like pretty or he's no longer with Barbara hers there in.

May December relationship they have been or are currently.

Yeah, well that's more more of an illegal way to say it. They're legal these I would say extreme age gap. I thought May December he was a student and she was. I thought it was based on Mary Lever Laturno.

Oh, well the movie made December, but the term May December is her. I didn't know that, and I've always thought of it as just a relationship with an age difference, but maybe it is.

I didn't know that. It was a saying yeah, look that up, look it up.

Yeah, Well aarp says that a May December romance is an age for an amoroist relationship between two people with a considerable it's a considerable age difference, which is I think that's part of why they called it May December, because it's like a May December romance is a normal thing. What this woman did was illegal, Like it's not legal.

But yes, So they're showing Annie the pictures and she confirms. She goes, yes, yes, I know him, and they're like yeah, he entered right after you left, thirty seconds after you would leave, Like this is it. And she's like, ah, so you followed me to my parents' house and killed them, and Benson goes, yeah, but why would he target your family. She's like, I don't know. Maybe it's because my photo's in the paper a lot and men want my money. And then so Annie asks, well, how will you find him?

So you know, now they have to go to the floorist.

So Annie opens the window a little she's sitting in her car already, and goes, Olivia, I have some calls I'd like you to make and Benson's like, damn, these outfits are so good that she forgot where cops. So Benson's annoyed that they haven't seen him all day and

It's it's an empty church and he's just like hanging out in the wings, like he's so obvious.

It's it's one of the.

First moments where I was like, oh, this episode's insane.

But yes, yeah, he's pulling back the curtain like he is a cartoon wolf chasing like a little fox, you know what I mean, and like.

It was so obvious.

Oh, So Benson tries to act with this, you know, Annie, and she's like, oh, you look pale. Come with me, and she's like I'm fine, Olivia, don't be a fussy little bitch, like and then Stabler says, police freeze we got Ayaza on a vie and he stops and turns around. Annie els that's him, Benson and Yell's gun and they rush off, So Stabler goes to arrest him in a Vinga is really calm, hands up in the air, collected, and he's like, just check my pocket, you'll find somebody

Okay, Mike drop so okay.

But also special frauds is so funny, Like wait, what like special victims Unit? It's like they're special victims because like they're women and children.

What are special frauds? Like, fraud is fraud.

I think most fraud that anyone's going after is high level, fucking Gillette level fraud.

So what are the special frauds?

Just like sweet gentle little blondes are the special frauds?

Like I'm such a silly title that they call it that, yeah and all theok yeah, well this his badge is silly. So Navin says he's been tailing her for two weeks and he's like, yeah, we know you got made by a woman who lunches, and he responds, yeah, who's been leading you and your partner in a wild goose chase? And Craigan off the phone, is like, hey, special Frauds doesn't know about this, and he goes, yeah, I'm off the books. He goes fur who and it's chief of detectives.

Squash the case.

It had to be hush hush, but they're going after her for embezzlement. Anne has very expensive taste. Her trust fund ran out, so she used her seat on the Prestwick Foundation board to supplement her income and still three point five million dollars, which doesn't seem like a lot for a rich person, even though that's a lot of money. Yeah, you know what, I mean, that's not gonna last for too long, not if you have that kind of taste, not if you're selling rothkos. I don't not like, I

Craigan is like, damn, well, that's a motive.

And Benson comes in like a fool, like why aren't Why aren't you in cuffs? And they're like, oh yeah, sorry, we should have filled you in and she's like, oh, he's one of us. Okay, got it.

So she's like, wow, we have a modern day Lizzie Borden.

Cool. So they all go to Special Frauds together and then they go through a list of her failures and I love this. So she tried to be in Equestrian Girly, she failed. She opened an art gallery, it closed because she forgot to pay taxes for five years. Then it's a photo of her with a tall man in a Fedora style hat with shoulder lenks, slight curled like hair,

So then Benson's like, why would the board let her in?

Then? And He's like, well, her dad donated ten million dollars, and Stabler's like, okay, I got my daughter a job at Target.

It costs me nothing.

And it's like, I just can't imagine Kathleen wearing a red little polo, Like that's what's funny to me, Like, I just love that one of the daughters is working at Target, but I just would hate to wear khakis. I just I, oh god, khaki's in a red polo in my Target.

I feel like they're wearing whatever they want on the bottom and they're just wearing the red up top.

That's great, Yeah, that is great, because a khaki is a hard look for a lot of people. Yeah, maybe if I could wear a khaki skirt, but then how are you bending down to fill up the shelves. You can't do that. So he's trying to like, you know, shame target or marine or whatever, or he's just talking. I don't know why I'm attacking Stabler so much, but basically the dude is like, yeah, and I bet your daughter's more qualified to be on the board than this bitch.

I've talked about it before, like having too much money causes failure to launch for a lot of people. She could have found something she was good at, but it might not have been something that was impressive enough for her parents or for her society life.

You know, I don't know. Getting sued so many times must look bad, but I learned from Hacks that's just what rich people do.

Like rich people just sue each other for fun. Yeah I also suing your interior designer. What did I really want to know what she did to these six homes? But yeah, that's for another episode.

Burned it down? Okay, So yeah, so Benson goes, oh, poor little rich girl can't cut it in the real world. But then she's smart enough to steal three point five million dollars. Like Benson doesn't like this double thing, and he goes, no, no, no, no, don't underestimate her. She is smart, she just doesn't like to play by the rules. So then they walk into a room with a lot of marker and papers on the wall, and he says that the record keeping at the foundation is awful.

No computerized files.

They just write checks to deserving organizations, and none of those organizations are actually real lol. So what she would do is start bank accounts with fake documents and then take the cash out after the checks cleared. And this was all found out when mister Prestwick of the Prestwick Foundation decided to visit one of the organizations and it was actually just.

A pet shop.

But it's so humiliating, and they wanted to keep this quiet so, you know, to not scare off future donors.

And so they you know, through, rubbed it under the table.

What is it? Through it under the table, swept it under the rug, wept it under the rug. That's how little I clean, Okay, And I'm anti rug. You know, I am glad I had a rug in that studio apartment, but I'm not kidding.

I just don't think rugs are for me. I'm not a rug.

I don't have I have one.

I have like a rug in my kids room, and I don't have a rug in my bedroom. I don't like rugs that much. You deemed you were really pushing that rug on me.

I thought, because and you were pushing a rug on me in this apartment.

You know, why are you trying to pretend you're not a rug pusher?

Is crazy?

No, no, no, I think it's good in New York apartments or in your apartment because of people downstairs. I don't want people to be on your shit about you. Because of the lady you had in West Hollywood. You had wall to wall carpeting, and she was on your shit for being too loud.

So I thought, like a rug in New York to absorb sound.

But I'm alert. I have allergies, so when I see rugs, I just think of sneezing and dust mites. And so there's no bake IDs because the counsel are all opened by unmemorable white men. So she doesn't even go in there. There's no camera footage of her, so she sends in like some white old guy and then no one knows

Yes, And we've never talked about this guy or looked him up, but we hate him and he's been in so many episodes we've talked about like he's just like he does look like a little old turtleman kind of. I called him a toad later on, Oh okay, he looks like a bullfrog, like a giant bullfrog and so,

And he wants, you know, all the files back and it's done and you're stop. So then the oldies walk away and Ramsey turns to Benson and Sibbur goes, fuck, that's six months of hard work going down the to toilet, and Mensa goes, well, nobody's shut down our case. Just come work with us, and he's like yeah, but if Mildew gets a sniff of your squad, you know, he'll visit. And they're like, no, no, no, no, we'll just question her as a victim.

Hello, And they have a twinkle in their eye. They're excited.

They like when they get to play a little game, and so they go, you know, she had a stalker and we did catch you, so let's go. So kut Sinavine looking menacing as hell in the glass tank and she's outside the glass, staring at him like, oh my god, thank you for arresting him. And they're like, yes, you know, of course, and we think he killed your parents, but we need to ask you some questions to help, and

And she goes, yes, yes, yes, of course I get that.

And you are charging him for murder, right, and Benson goes yeah, but we need evidence, so you know, him just being at place as your doesn't that's not enough. She's upset there's no evidence, but Benson assures her it might take time, but they will convict the parents killer.

But I like looked him up and was like, I don't really know what else I know him from, but yes, yeah.

And he's concerned with Anne's safety and wants her to be okay, and he has not spoken to her yet, but obviously is so worried about her after what happened with bertin Elaine and Annie told him that a robber murdered her parents, and of course he believes her when they're because they're like, oh, you just believed her, And it's like, yeah, why would I not believe her?

But what is going on? Why are you here?

Levin says, listen, she's about to call you and ask you to lie for her, and he says, no fucking way, she would never do that. He calls her a gentle soul and honest. Sabler is like, she has been robbing the foundation blind and you've been helping her. The phone rings and it's Anne, and he says, Nate, it's over. You're going to jail unless you answer that phone and do exactly what we say, And so he puts it on speaker and he slowly answers, and after eight rings,

He doesn't want to lie, but she's like do it.

And then she's like, kisses, see you tomorrow at the funeral. And he asks, well, now what, and they say, you talk, we listen. So he's in cement room bars and he says he thought it was just like a tax dodge situation with the foundation, and like they found out.

He says, I didn't know about the stealing. Navina is like, bro, you.

Don't even have to convince me, Like, don't worry about it. All you have to do is convince a grand jury, the DA and the judge. So why'd you do it? Nate? And he says I loved her and I thought she loved me. And Stabler behind the glass is like, but in a fatherly, like uncle way, you think they're fucking.

I think she's making it seem like they're an item. Like I think that she uses that to get guys to do things for her. You know, I don't think in an uncle way. I think in a romantic Wow. Okay, that's the impression I got. That's the impression I got.

Yeah. Interesting, interesting, they're happy they have them for emvestlement. But you know, also that case was shut down six hours ago, so no one fucking cares and nobody has anything on Angelotte for murder, and Stabler starts acting up big baby style, and Craigan's just like, shut up and do your job. But they really want to go arrest her now before this investigation gets shut down as well,

They only arrest people while they're giving a huge presentation to their company or they're accepting an award, you know, like of course they're doing it on the funeral steps.

It's like perfect.

And then they get her stalker to go arrest her, like she's so they're playing mind games with this bitch, but they're also playing with the audience, and I'm loving it.

I mean, I'm here for this episode. It's so crazy. I just think it's too much. It's different than like, you know, a gala or a charity event. And then like, but I guess she killed them, so if she killed them, she doesn't give a fuck. You know, yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay, I'm back on their side. Thank you for help for leading me. So she calls Olivia a bitch and says you've set me up and she has not lawyered up yet. But Benson's like, well, so many

But uh oh.

Old Mildew is screaming in the lobby desk area and Craigan sneaks Bence and through the side door. He's like, oh, go, go go, and he goes to confront the toad, and then the Toad does have a point. He's like, you arrested Annie at her parents funeral and he calls Benson and Stabler kid cops and Craigan goes, nope, they were obeying my orders standing up for his girl.

Love that.

Mildew Is like, I told you to stop, and Craigan goes, sure, but I didn't think that trump a double homicide and he's like, yeah, but you didn't even arrest her for murder, did you? Did you? And so this is a pretty good battle where they even you know, we're supposed to hate him, but they both have really good points. And Huang gets involved and says she is very dangerous and

Now he's on it so hard. I go say hi to my mom on face daime. He goes, Hi, poop poop butt diarrhea, Like it's so insane, it's all they think about.

Huge milestone. Though yesterday I sent Oscar to school in the same shorts and underwear that he came home in couldn't believe he didn't piss himself. Couldn't believe it. Wait, this is huge, yeah, huge. I went, are you wearing the same shorts? I say you school with? And he goes yeah, and I went like this, and he just gave me the biggest hug and he was like so proud of himself.

It was, you know, tails of body training. It's the fucking nightmare.

Okay, all right, So in your mind to these people own in your mind, to these people own a razor fortune, because like, that's what I keep thinking of when they keep talking about the Gillette.

I kept thinking about the stadium. That's right, but I forgot and men's razors. You're right, you're right, you're right. The mock three, baby, yes, the mock. I loved the close ups of the hair and the blade cutting it like what I did. Like that. Whoever has so many blades? The art and design for those Gillette rais her hair cutting videos.

You have a fan for life.

Sold it. The dream Team enter cement room bars and she goes, wow, three against one, you all hardly play fair and she goes, you two, no, get out of here. I want just him so Navin stays and Benson and Slabor leave and they're giving her the power that she wants. And Navin is in a men in black style suit and she reaches out her hand to shake hands and says, Angelette Ashok Ramsey. He responds and she goes, oh, my god, is your mother Sna Ramsey? And he says yes and

A wild fucking coincidence that this guy is from like high society enough that he recognized his mom would be Ramsey's a very common last name.

Like it's just wild to be like, oh, is that your mother?

Like, but I think they're painting him as somebody because he is really high, like he dresses really well, Like they point out that he dresses really well, and like, you know, he's got kind of a posh accent as well, and like I think it's just hilarious to be like the criminal being like.

Oh, I used to chill with your mom in London. Like this episode just was cracking me up. And Sailor and Benson are confused behind the glass and they're like, who the fuck is this guy? Yeah, they're like, wait, are you somebody? Yeah?

And then Pollie is like, you haven't spoken in six years? Why not?

Oh? I for some reason, that's what I decided to call Sarah Pulson there, and I apologize.

I don't know why I know that.

I don't know Sarah Poulson slash Annie slash Pollie is like, you haven't spoken in six years? Why not? And he says, yeah, you know over these calls are expensive, and she goes, you can afford it, babe, and he goes, why are you so interested in me? And she's like, well, because we're two of a kind to the prodigal children, and he goes, we are nothing alike. She goes, yeah, you came across the pond to escape your family, slumming it

Like she I mean it's not, but like it's a wild shit to say when you're trying to still play innocent. Yes, but her ego is too big, baby, he goes, and you were tired of waiting?

She goes, sure, but just tired. And there are a ton of witnesses that will tell you, Yeah, I was annoyed and complained, but whatever. And Ramsey says, I don't covet what my parents have. And she says, you're still living in that adolescent place, you reject their world and trying to prove you're your own man. But sooner or later they will lure you back in. Your mother is quite seductive. He gets up pissed and says you know nothing, and he starts to walk out. She yells, I know

Let's go talk to him. I have a plan.

Okay, So they go to the Preswick Foundation and he gets aggressive right away with Benson and Benson's alone and he's like what And she's doing a really sexy act out and he's in pretty quickly and she goes, hey, Nigel, can I call you that? And she's like, I know that men have needs, but when a wife can't meet those needs, men have to look elsewhere. And he's he she is like the snake from Robin Hood, Like she got him, She got him in a swirl like.

That, like just took a rabbit vibes immediately.

Yet because to me, I'm like, why would Benson start bringing up that, like men need to be adventurous when their wives don't want to be Like you know what I mean, It makes no sense, especially when this man, to me gives get very heavy gay vibes. But that's fine, Like yeah, that's neither here nor there. Yeah, like him and Tim Gunn would be at events together. Even Tim is cooler and better. I don't know why I said that, but like upper Crust gay, I saw that.

Well, actually I googled this actor who is gay and he said, you.

Know, I didn't come out.

He said something like I didn't come out for a long time, but like it wasn't really necessary because in America for a long time, like anyone British was gay like that was just like any man that like talked with that accent. They were like, he's gay, you know, like that was just American bullshit stereotyping.

But this man, this actor is actually gay.

Oh great, I'm glad you did the research. Yeah.

I couldn't figure out where I knew him from, and I know him from some stuff.

He's in stuff, but now I'm forgetting what it is.

Yeah, his name's Edward Hibbert, this guy who plays Prestwick, and he was he was in something where I go, oh, I bet Lisa saw him in that. Let me let me just really quickly look ye where I was like, oh, I bet Lisa knows him from this? Oh well, interestingly I read about him that after. You know, Rowan Atkinson is the voice of Zazu in the Lion King. In anything that followed the original Lion King, like Lion Kid two, Lion King one and a half, he's.

The voice of Zazu.

This man, oh, he plays Maurice in First Wives Club. That's why I thought you might.

Know him, Oh my god.

Yeah, and that's Jazu.

That's I mean, Mateo has jokes about how gay Zazu is.

Yeah, but this guy like has been i mean seventy three credits.

He's been working since the seventies.

Like yeah, so anyway, so yeah, so that it is wild.

He just buckles, but we would all buckle to Benson, so I get it. But he's just like nodding his head up and down.

And she says, but sometimes those needs are misunderstood, judged, and then he then she stands right up to him, stares him right in the eyes and says, get on your knees, worm a and his jaws on the floor, And he gets on his knees and she puts her high heeled boots up on an automnan and he starts licking her boots. And then Navi, Yeah, for the people that don't watch us, for you at all and just listen to this podcast, like how shocked are you that this is happening?

Like you have to go and watch this episode, just this part, like we cannot describe it enough.

I feel it is so insane. Yeah, and then Navin runs in with a camera takes photos of the dude licking Benson's boots.

This is the Rhyan like a TMZ bomb, Like it's so crazy. He just runs in and goes like it's like a cartoon. It is, but it's also like they're

She does say that.

He does say like I'll get you new pradas or something, and I'm like, okay, are these Benson's Prada boots. Does the department pay for Prada boots like a weird Prada We.

Find out later they are her boots. Yeah, because another item of clothing of hers kits. But this is the thing I think Benson. I mean, she works non stop. The ot must be overwhelming. Yeah, she earns in overtime, but she doesn't go out. She doesn't go to concerts, she doesn't take vacations, she does it do anything. She has a one bed, like I don't know. I think I get that she's like, I'm just I'm gonna buy Prada.

Yeah, and she I think she probably bribes like pieces she has like nice a few like nice pieces, you know.

And yeah, because it's also at work, she has to look like shit most of the time, so I think, like when she's not working, she likes to slip on some luxury items. Yes, she looks like she's in Ann Taylor at most of the time at work, like a little purple sweater with a T shirt peeking out, you know, like she's not really spending a lot. I think on the.

Work clothes, a bootleg black jean, you know.

But it is something consistent and when we do talk to Marishco Hargatea. I think we have to remember this question because I want to be like, you know.

She's always been a fashion queen.

She knows how much all these expensive items, like how was that implemented with the character? Right? Curious and because we know you're interested in fashion, you know, so did you bring that to Olivia? Where it's like, listen, this bitch looks too rich. We can't pretend she's poor.

She's always like going through racks of dead people going laperla, like, you know, like she knows all the brand.

You know what. We're not even entertaining that we should, Like we always see her dates get fucked up, but like maybe she does get luxury goods from people that do want to fuck her. Me, you don't think the commissioners trying to fuck Benson. You don't think. You don't think people at the Galla are sending her Benson has a sugar daddy. I don't think one. I think I think people are courting her and she's like I'm a busy bee and they're like, here's a Prada boo. I

I don't know, I really don't know. That's a great question. That'll be a cute thing to write into, like a movie or something.

You know, Yes, he goes if I turn on her and like all the embezzlement and all of this, it's going to ruin the foundation. We will we will lose all respect. And Benson is like, well, you might lose your wife once she learns about your dirty little fetish. And then Benson is so smart and she's like, you think you're pretty clever there, huh. Naming your secret society after the Marquis de Sade, Donetti and Alfonse Francois, which is the name of the Marquis de Sade, Yeah, but

Yeah, the Marquis de Sade is like where all the sadism comes from?

Like uh, like I didn't. I don't know if it's like, yeah, he had.

He was like a French aristocrat, writer, political activists and nobleman and he has he wrote novels and then he was imprisoned for sex crimes, blasphemy and pornography. Like I think he was like a horny man from old French seventeen hundred's time, early eighteens.

Navian goes, listen, save Anne or your skin, but you can't do both. Then Benson spills Morabans on how she busted two people from his little club before, and they have a lot of videos and evidence in lock up. Again for an SVU detective, this is insane jumping the shark fully. Benson goes, yeah, I remember a video where there was a Nazi role and then the old man screams enough, so I guess he's going to this club, going to be dasm rooms, dressing up like a Nazi

Something in the true crime parts and I'll tell you about what.

Okay, I just have to hurry up so or is it about Prince Harry? Okay, so so he'll do it and she says I thought so, and they walk out. Benson and Levine are doing a brisk walk outside chatting and they're getting gritty in case talk, and then he says something that impresses Olivia and she's like, wait, did you go to law school? And he says, London's School of Economics. So then he goes math puts order to chaos, and Benson knowingly smiles like police work, and then they

So they find this hottie.

They flank her on the busy streets of New York and she's like, listen, you came at the right time. I've been so busy post nine to eleven doing terrorism, but I have time for some parent money murders now.

And I don't know why I.

Did that accent. That's not what she sounded like. So they're like, please, help us finish this case. And she's listening, but once she hears it's Annie Gillette, she's like, no, her parents have given millions to politicians, and Benson screams her dead parents who she killed. I think she looks like Minnie Driver with no freckles an American. I don't know if you feel that way.

Yes, I can see what you're saying. And I looked this woman up and bosh, Dexter. She was in like eleven episodes of Dexter.

Whoa who'd she playing? Yeah? She played Sylvia Prado.

Oh is she the one where the fire?

Is? That?

Where the fire was?

I feel like she.

Must have been a love interest or something because she was Her name was Sylvia Prado, so she couldn't have been somebody that was like quickly killed or what.

Oh yeah, you know she was in the Jimmy Schmidt episodes. Yeah, she was his wife. Yeah right, yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, Okay, she's beautiful though she was. You're right. She had the look of somebody that I knew, And it is like a Mini Driver. She does look like Mini Driver. Wow. Cool, now that I look at more photos, it's just like the jawline, I guess but I can't believe she's dexter.

Hell yeah, cool, yeah. The actress's name is Valerie Crue. So there she is, uh, the freckless minie driver.

Okay, so but she basically her thing is like, you cannot prove the murder, leave me the fuck alone, and Navin goes, we will please help us murders always on a state level, Like aren't you excited you'd be you know, it's a huge career move doing a federal murder case. She says, give me the files, I'll go to Rikers and like, let's let's get things going. So Navine gives her eyes like he looks her up and down when he walks away. He's smitten with her. So then Stabler

I'm gonna get you out as soon as I can.

Please don't worry, and then she goes, oh, Detective, you don't know what I'm capable of, and he's like, no, I saw your mother's body. And she says, if you think I would do that to someone I love, what do you think I could to someone you love? Stabler pulls her out the door. Stabler walks into Craigan's office, asking if Live and Ash her back yet, and they are twenty minutes out, but he asks for them to take her to Rikers and he's going to take.

A little lost time right now.

And Cragan is confused and he's like, wait, what's up, dude, and Stabler responds it might be nothing, but she threatened my family and I don't like that. So Craigan's like, that is not nothing, Stabler, and I know you, and go take your family. And so he's going to take her to Kathy's sister's house in Jersey. And you know, Hank did say she was very dangerous, so let's act

So nice opa plan.

Lot of wood. He's bringing some mugs over to Benson and an informant at Riker's ratted her out. That's how they got the info. And now that sexy woman from earlier the department US Department, Federal Woman's Victoria, right, sexy woman. She walks out of the back of the apartment and oh my god, she's like thanks for the files and that duke.

She says good night and runs off and ashes.

And they have her shirt like a little bit untucked, like it's really it's very good.

I love that they are fucking. And Ash's like, hey, I don't say it, don't say it. And Benson's like, I mean you could have kissed her good night? Like fuck. He goes, well, you know I didn't make her take the fire escape. So they have a little cute bantern. I bet they say friends like I think they have a vibe, like I feel like Benson and Navienn had some drinks after. Maybe they fucked too, Like I just I see there are people like them being friends. Yeah.

A bad job, okay.

So Ramsey is so offended that it was only fifty grand each hit on them. So he's like, she's a psycho and you've only seen all her masks, but she will murder and do everything in her power to get away. And Benson's like, okay, I don't know if greedy equals psychopath, but you.

Know again, I don't know why she went in.

She's a good cop. She reads people like I don't like when they do this to our peeps. So he's like, listen, some psychopaths and never commit a crime. You know, they've adapted their amorality to fit into society. And Benson goes, yeah, like your friend's on Wall Street. And he goes, yes, who better to fire people and not care about people's pensions like psychopaths. And she goes sure, but they didn't break the law, and Benson goes, rape and embezzlement isn't

I have a job to do. Stabla goes, what Ramsey.

Put you up to this?

And it's like, do you not know our girl?

No, it was her idea, and Saba goes, well wait a minute, go fuck yourself leaving me out. I want to help too. So they bring him up and they're like, what so you're just gonna go out with SERGQ just cowboy it up. Then she goes, you have a problem with Ash. She goes no, but you're my partner and anyone should have your back, it's me. She says, Okay, I've got come on, let's go. So they all like

There's like blood pops like, I mean, like there's blood on their shirts, like it looks this is action movie level, saying this live.

I can't, I can't. Then someone on buckles Anne puts her in the back of the white van. The masked men in her drive off as she stares at their dead bodies.

They go to a motel.

She walks in and goes, oh, well, this isn't the Walldorf, but hey, the masked man takes off his mask and it's Finn. Oh my god. So then he says, if you want to go somewhere else, there's the door. She's like, how about a ride to Westchester County Airport there's a jet waiting, and he says sure, as long as I get the rest of my money. She's like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna wire it to you. Don't you trust me? And he sits on the bed and he's like, lady, I just iced two cops for you. I don't trust

He goes, no, no, no, no, don't use that phone. You don't know who's listening.

Use my cell phone, So Benson and Ash they meet up with Stabler in a van's steakout style. Benson is like, okay, first my boots, now my shirt. So then Sarah Paulson now calls the bank and she's talking in France and she's I'm in France in French.

She's loving it. She's having so much fun.

She says, it's all done, and she goes, my father always said to seal business deals with champagne. So let's start popping bottles. Do you think this dump has room service? And Stabler I can't wait to get involved, and goes, well, they do now, And so Anne is changing and telling Finn like, damn, when my cellmate said that she knew a hit man, I had no idea you'd be so attractive. And so then he says I'm the total package, and she goes, I wish I knew you sooner, and he goes,

Do our live shows. I feel it is so silly and wild and it's crazy that.

This like decorated actress is like the star of it.

I mean, Naveen Andrews two is very talented and like it's just, oh my god, so nuts. Anyway, let's get into the true crime, shall we can't wait? Okay, So

So I think that's what they're borrowing from with this so wrong if everyone's consent, like it's so wrong.

Yeah, everybody's like, I don't know where the Nazi part of it came in, but like because there's video footage of it, so is there Nazi stuff or not Nazi stuff?

You know, but that's where that's what that came from.

It's really wild too, because England has such stronger slander laws than we do here. Like I know people that will go and they will like sue corporate, they'll sue like media in the UK because they consider we don't consider We're like, something has to be really serious to be slanderous here in the UK. It's much like more broad like what can be considered slandering people. I'm sure we have British listeners that will let me know, but

Today, which, like I.

I know, casually, I feel like I've probably like maybe did a paper.

In high school or something. I don't know. I'm excited to know more details and information because she's such an eye, you know, for feminism. But yeah, and like there was movies made about her. I just feel like she's like a really famous woman killer. But I want to know everything.

It's a hugely famous case and for a lot of reasons. But I'm the same as you. I knew vaguely what happened. I really didn't know before I researched it, so I was actually happy to do it. So Benson refers to Angela as Lizzie Borden. One of the most famous crimes in American history took place during the Gilded Age, and the violence of the crime attracted national attention, but also because the victims had money and social clout, much like

So the rhyme is not.

Even accurate, but that's like a rhyme that people know about. So Lizzie Andrew Borden famously killed both her father Andrew Jackson Borden and her stepmother Abby Durfy Gray with a hatchet in Fall River, Massachusetts in eighteen ninety two. So a lot of times it's like axe imagery and stuff, and even like at the end of this episode, Finn goes with an axe that's cold, but it's actually a hatchet, and they say that at the beginning of the episode that those two parents are killed with a hatchet.

A hatchet is lighter and smaller than an axe.

You have to be like really fucking close up to somebody and like really like whacking at them to kill somebody with a hatchet like that, you know, So a lot of them were a difference between those.

Right, Like a lot of people called her an ex murder, but it was really a hatchet. So her father was quite successful, had come from being a poor upbringing and he had become quite successful and was worth around three hundred thousand dollars at the time of his death, which is like ten million today, so pretty successful. Lizzie's mother had died and then three years later he married Abby, and Lizzie thought that she was kind of a gold digger and only married her father for the money. So

So, yeah, it's weird. I don't know.

I was reading about that and was like, I don't really know what's up. I'm sure he gave it to them as a gift, and then was probably they were probably like, we don't know how to take care of this.

You take it, give us money for it.

It was essentially sometimes I think the gifting of property is really just like instead of the crassness of just handing cash to someone.

So anyway, it's ugs us forth. Eighteen ninety two.

In the house were Lizzie and a maid named Bridget Sullivan, and that they would they called Bridget Maggie by the way, I don't know why. And the girl's maternal uncle, John Morse, had actually stayed the night the night before, but he had left that morning to go into town and buy oxen and visit a niece. It's like a very eighteen ninety two morning. I'm just gonna go buy some ox and have brunch with my niece. And then her father,

Someone's coming and killed him.

And Andrew was found on a couch with ten to eleven wounds from a hatchet, and his face was apparently unrecognizable.

So it's an extremely violent crime. It's not like, oh, a self defense.

Whack where you hit an artery and somebody bled out, like somebody wanted to fuck these people up. One of his eyes had been cleanly split in two, it said, suggesting that he had maybe been asleep on the couch when he was attacked. And these attacks, by the way, between the mother, the stepmother, and the father were like within this space of ninety minutes. And then a neighboring

Like how a xenophobic family, yes, exactly. So.

Something else also happened in the aftermath of the murders, which was that thousands of townspeople were curious and visited the home and were totally tampering with evidence and tainting the integrity of the crime.

But it's like eighteen ninety two.

It don't a police tape, you know, so no one's like so, you know, the crime scene was very fucked, so no one suspected Lizzie had done this. She was a Sunday school teacher at her wealthy Central Congregational Church. She was described by everybody as like a typical Victorian lady,

It is kind of weird.

But also we've talked about this before, like there's no perfect way to be traumatized, you know, like some people freeze, So her reaction was weird. And then police found two hatchets and two axes in the basement, and the police also found that Lizzie had tried to procure a deadly prussic acid from a pharmacy the day before, but she claimed, oh no, that was just to clean my fur coats. I use that acid to clean my fur coats. They

Have affected her behavior.

Like that could have been what caused her to remember things differently, be confused, possibly not be emotional and reactionary. She's in like a morphine stupor, you know, like but also there are expectations of women at this time that she act in a certain way. So then apparently she started refusing to answer questions, she contradicted herself, her story started to vary again.

This all could have been from the morphine, and.

Yes, the family doctor testified that it could have contributed to her foggy memory. On August eleventh, one week after the murders, Lizzie was arrested and jailed. And this high society lady was in a cell for almost ten months. And the case, yeah, the case, so no, no, that was just her jail time until the trial. She just didn't get bail, so she was jailed till trial.

Ahy, that's shocking. Yeah, so she's jailed till trial. So this case, I think what I was reading a lot of my reading.

The reason that it sort of has hit such a nerve and been like a big part of our cultural consciousness is because of a couple of things, and one of them is that sensational journalists had like just begun, you know, like that had just started, and like a murder happening among like the well healed was super like supercharging that fire, you know, like this was just like kind of the first Nancy Grace type trial and like some doctor Jean Kim, who was a clinical assistant professor

So I thought that was interesting.

It's like one of these first crimes among the rich, you know, that hasn't been shunned. And then there is also this like nationalistic like you know, nativism that's happening of like you know, white people that are think they're whatever Mayflower people, and then the immigrants that are coming in. So like there was a local Irish paper that was posting all this shipping like, oh, Lizzie's guilty as hell, And then the local town paper that had been around forever was like, oh no, not lady.

Lizzie, She's innocent. She's innocent.

So that's all contributing to like the atmosphere. So there was grand jury on November seventh, and then eventually she was indicted on December second. So women's groups were furious and protested because she would not be charged by a jury of her peers because women at that time were not allowed to sit on juries. So suffragettes and all these women's groups were like really protesting on behalf of Lizzie, like this is bullshit, like you know, witch hunt vibes.

So, I mean, it's eighteen ninety two.

A lot of people are.

Gonna have axes in their basement, right or hatchets. It doesn't really prove anything. Also, interestingly, no bloody clothing was found at the scene, and Lizzie turned the dress she was wearing over to the plea and it only had a tiny spot of blood on it, which is pretty impossible considering the murder weapon was a hatchet. She'd have to be extremely close to the victims and there would

So it's just a weird coincidence that I wanted to mention.

So at trial, Lizzie's lawyers are giving her the elwoods, you know, they're telling her how to handle it. They're like she played damsel in distress. She wore black, she wore a tightly corseted black flowing dress. She had flowers in one hand a fan in the other, Like she was definitely you know, she was showing up for the people that were on her side and trying to.

Play like little o me.

She had the best legal team that her murdered father's money could buy. One of Boston's best defense attorneys was on her team, as well as a former Massachusetts governor who had appointed one of the three judges who was presiding over the case. So wild conflict of interestship. But

She walked.

No one else has ever been charged with the murders. There are a lot of theories of the crime that have circulated in the years.

One is that.

Lizzie was physically and sexually abused by her father.

Wait, but what do we know?

Why?

Oh fuck, but do we know why? The jury was like, you're a good girl.

I think they just like couldn't prove it, Like they really couldn't prove she did it. Like there was no blood on the app They obviously didn't prove that it was the murder weapon, so no murder weapon.

It would have been hard for her to dispose.

Of a murder weapon as well, you know, But also there wasn't there could have been blood on the axes that were in the basement. They didn't have like luminol and like all that shit. Then I don't think maybe they did, but it's possible she cleaned the hatchet really quick and threw it in the basement and then was like, Maggie, come quick.

You know.

Who knows, But it seems like this could have been a case of a random murder. I'm like, the more I was researching it, I was like, maybe she didn't do it. Maybe it was truly like the sexism of like she wasn't reacting in the way that the cops liked, and she was giving weird answers which could be attributed to the morphine.

And so well, because I feel there was a movie with Christina Ricci or something, yeah, and it Oh you're gonna talk about it? Yeah, okay, because I felt like the way they marketed it, it was supposed to be like the actual truth and like this, like she was framed. So yeah, I wonder.

I mean, I think it's sort of like Lizzie Borden. I think kind of folds into like which I have.

To see what she looks like because I am only imagining Sarah Paulson right now. Oh no, different, Wait, she's scary, She's scary.

She did it?

Oh my god.

Well, listen, she was acquitted. No one else was ever charged with the murders, and that's it. Like there are tons of theories, like one is that she was physically and sexually abused by her dad, which led her to murder her. There's not a lot of evidence that that happened, but also that kind of thing wasn't openly discussed at the time, nor is it openly discussed, you know now. Another was that she was angry at her father, who a few days before the murder had killed her pet

And there have been.

Plays about Lizzie bordon ballets, musicals, rock operas, books, movies, so much media about this story. In nineteen seventy five, the star of Bewitched, Elizabeth Montgomery, starred as Lizzie in a made for TV movie called The Legend of Lizzie Borden, and Elizabeth Montgomery was actually sixth cousins with Lizzie Borden, so I guess that made it more legit. Christina Ricci, as you mentioned, played her in a Lifetime movie which

Wait, maybe she was playing Lizzie Bord.

And I'm sorry I didn't break this down, but these two people that met at the dramatization got married. And the house where the murders truk place is now like a spooky B and B and you can go to like Lizzibordon dot com and there's full.

Exactly what I'm doing right now. That's so yeah, there's like you can book a room.

I put it, I'll put it in a show notes, guys, you can book a room, you can book a tour.

It's like a whole thing.

So, I don't know, Like the more I read about it, I was like, it is like pretty wild that in such a quick amount of time, first of all, that she would be ballsy enough to like do it, knowing that her uncle, who was a house guest, could have come home at any minute, her her maid could have seen her.

Did anyone even find out? Like who else could have? Like were there enemies. Was it a ram that like no one knows that's the thing, Like nobody else stood to gain anything from it.

But it's so funny.

There's like so much availability to stay in a room except for the third and fourth fucked booked baby in August.

Wait, this is nuts.

Select what kind of room? Oh my god, you could pick their names. Oh my god, you can, Oh my god, the whole house. I need to get married so I can have my bachelort party at the Lizzie Boarden House.

Yeah, it says join us to stay, play and for a hauntingly fun time, and you can do tours.

And I don't know.

Fall River is like a place.

The whole house is harder to book, that's for sure. Okay, there's some in November. Let's see.

Fall River is a place that the bus I used to take from Boston to Newport RhoD Island used to stop. So I don't really know that much about it. But that's that on Lizzie Borden and I didn't really know a ton And it's creepy. It's creepy here, Like I don't want to stay. I don't want to say, I don't want to say. I take an ax, let's do something else for your batch, please case.

He is nodding, no as well. No, I, now that I see these rooms, I really have no interest. I'm more of a luxury traveler. But that's that one way.

So you can say, like in the room where they were murdered.

I guess so, because well, the yeah, the mother was murdered upstairs, and then that he was murdered on a couch.

It looked like almost in a common area.

I don't know, it's sort of yeah, but yeah, ok, yeah, it's creepy, but it's affordable though.

It's like two hundred to three fifty for each of the rooms. Yeah, and for a for a night of no sleep because you'll probably be hearing ghosts.

But let's get well, let's get into the post mortem. We don't have a guest today, so we can just start talking about our feelings.

Now that's great, boom, all.

Right, no guests today, so let's just jump right into the post mortem of I don't know our postmortem. Like the idea of it when we first started this podcast was like what are the lessons we learned?

What are the big takeaways?

And then there's like episodes like this where you're like, yeah, I guess, don't be like a psycho, greedy, trust fun bitch who murders your parents. Like I don't really know how like this much of this episode applies to life, but.

It's interesting that like, and that lot people are bad at things. Yeah that you know, we're so hard on nepos, but it's like there are a lot of nepo failures. And yes, I think.

Actually nepotism contributes greatly to failure to launch and for like you know, delusions of grandeur and then you can't like reach.

Up to them, you know.

But I also think that it is interesting in the episode how she's so she's like, oh, I love my daddy, and my daddy was.

Like wrapped around my little finger, but my mom was a fucking bitch that she was like just had to kill my dad too. Collateral damage.

I think she's doing in prison or did she get off? I mean, I'm sure she got a great lawyer, I know somebody.

But you know how like you can't profit from your crimes, Like if you kill somebody for money ostensibly, like and you inherit all this money from somebody that you murder, can you use that money in your own defense. I'm interested, although she could get a pro bono good lawyer because this kind of case would be all over the news.

I also, this reminds me of are you thinking about the same thing I am, Gypsy Rose being pregnant.

Yeah, yes, yes, that's exactly what I was saying. I know, there's no way you're thinking what I'm thinking.

That's exactly what I was just gonna.

Say to it.

Yeah, did you see?

So we're a little bit behind, obviously because we're in the time machine, but not this aka Lindsay Hubbard pregnant, Gypsy Rose pregnant two major pregnancies.

For us, I would say yeah, But to Rinda in the rumors about Traders, like, I don't know, I believe the rumors of Lindsay being pregnant before she announced and confirmed, so I never't.

As a surprise to me.

Yeah, because she's pissed at Dirnda because she was gonna be on the Traders and kept her pregnancy secret and Derinda told on her, told producers H wow.

Yeah.

And then one of the things I saw that advertised the New Traders cast wrote her down as door Linda, which I love and I might just be calling her that from now on, Door Linda anyway.

Wow, But Gypsy Rose is guy, so I guess they used to date before this other ex husband and then they've kicklled once she got out. You know, all the male killers get to have groupies. Like I'm I'm fine with her doing this. I hope, you know, she's happy having a kid. I hope she makes money. But the video I saw in all the comments I saw about her talking about it is she's crying in quotes, but

I just like really need there to be somebody very carefully monitoring this whole situation.

She's in some sort of parole situation, you know, Like I'm sure she has a parole officer.

Yeah.

No, I just kind of mean, like and I feel like she has a therapy unless she's a psychopath, but like she was really good on the view, Like the way she talks about stuff is very measured, and I don't think she's a psychopath. I just do think I just think she has been like severely traumatized, and I just like would stunted.

I just want to be sure that everything is at least.

This guy's hotter, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I'm at least happy she's getting this hot dude, this baby. I'm sorry.

Yeah, I hope everything goes good for Gypsy poor thing. Oh my god, but I can't believe we were both just thinking that that's so funny.

Well someone just I saw a story or is like hold on, So Gypsy Rose got a dude to murder her mom for her, then she had a husband in jail. Now she has a new husband, like a like what and I'm getting ghosted or something like that, you know, like just someone on top. Oh yeah yeah yeah, like yeah, she's really bringing them in. Yeah, she sure is.

But like you said, people, you know, there's the guy groupies for the they're the girl groupies for Richard Ramirez, and there's the guy groupies for Gypsy Ros.

Yeah. Oh and you know what else, going back to what I was talking about up top about him being like, uh, you're thirty six and single. You guys are clapping for that? Like that's so delusional. All that like Jared Freed straight up as a special called thirty seven and single, Like it is just so crazy. Yeah, like the different dynamics and how they don't see that. It's like, oh, yeah, you don't see us as people and that's why, like I don't know, I will never yeah, PEO will never

Care about men being single at fifty or sixty, Like they don't care.

That doesn't matter. They also don't actually care about it. They just don't like that there's a lack of control all of a sudden. They like, well, the idea that there's a woman running around without having to that doesn't need you.

Yeah, that doesn't need man, men man any man. I mean, I you just told me who it is, and that guy's pretty repulsive. So I texted someone else and he was like, that is a psychopath. Why are you getting involved? Like he's like, I'm like, I wasn't getting involved. Thought it'd be a normal convo. Not really but you know, but I agree, But I think that what you said is comic to comic. You shouldn't really like talk shit about a comic after they've left the room. Yeah, and

Oh, he had left the room.

He left.

I think he ran away as soon as he got off the stage. Well that's I think you were therapizing the audience. Let's be honest. I think they needed you to land the plane on that one.

Oh my god.

And then I would say the first show, I go, who's under thirty? Almost everyone? I go, who's under twenty five? Eighty percent of the room. I go, oh my god. I go, oh my god. I don't have to respect any of you. And then I said, how many of you are in finance? Every hand they were all one work at Newmark, one was Bank of America, one was Ernst and Young and yeah, like they all were like finance boys and two girls. Jeez, finance bros. Night out.

Yeah at the comedy at the comedy night.

This is a fun episode. You're not going to get one on the SV Detective, so don't even try it. That's what we fucking learned. Yeah, yeah, she doesn't know how much money you get fan undercover. I mean she wanted a fuck fin I'm honestly pissed. We didn't get to see that from it. I know.

We also learned that, like there was a course in the Police Academy in acting, and that the NYPD has like a full special effects budget where they can like forge deaths, fake deaths and full gunshot kidnappings. Like this episode is camp baby, and I love it so much. We can move on to what would Sister Peg do? Our weekly segment where we direct you guys towards you know, organizations, articles, books, something that gives you more information on what we talk today.

Go follow us, and next week we'll be doing the episode fat from season seven, episode twenty. We're just doing back to back silliness, but that one has more assault. But we will see you next week. Thanks for listening, you know, check us out or announcements coming soon to a town near you. Tell a friend about our pod.

We love you guys by and I like seeing you in the streets.

So hey, that's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see our

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