Serendipity w/ Diane Neal

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories done Dune.

Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

I'm Lisa Traeger.

And I'm Kara Klank and you hopefully know by now the drill. We just recap an episode of Law and Order SVU. We're going to take you through the journey of the true crime it was based on, and then we're going to interview an actor from the show. So, Lisa, what's up, what's new? I'm having a fun week.

I mean, before we talk about anything, we got to talk about the Atlanta Housewives. It is one of the greatest episodes of television in recorded history.

It's truly, truly wild.

We are on a group text with a couple other friends and someone told us wrote us, you know, an East Coast person wrote us that they had seen at first.

And was like, I mean, it's just it's like.

Yeah, it's like there's a few if you if you watch Housewives, there's a few cannon episodes that are just classic forever. There's the Berkshire Scary Island. Scary Island I.

Have everybody goes multiple peckers in my.

Life, you know, yeah, there are really really you know, just even if you don't watch. Like my husband the other day said to me, he goes, can I watch Scary Island with you? I just want to know what you're talking about? Like, so I think I might just show him Scary Island. So these are episodes that I think you can just dip into and realize how amazing they are, even if you don't really follow the shows or all the drama of them. And this episode is

I've been describing it to people that are like, wait, why do I have to watch it? I go sex swings, a stripper in chanel in a cage and there's a shark. These bitches catch a shark, okay, like are you kidding me?

And there might be a threesome.

But they put this is These are women in their forties and fifties. Their bodies are hot as hell, They're wearing lingerie s and m gear. They put the bachelorette in a sex swing and put a vibrator on her on television like.

It is if you are not if you if you're Like, what does sex positivity look like? It's this episode of this television show because the other franchises of the show are honestly so prudish, Like in one episode they go to Amsterdam and they split a piece of space cake even though weed is legal there. It's like, you know, they're just so prude. Everyone's worried about what they're doing on TV. The Atlanta Women do not have not been done giving a fuck.

Like it is so good.

They have this like orgy bachelorette party that is really fun and hilarious. Everyone's having a good time and they try too of the cameras so that you can't see what happens after production kind of shuts down, but we get some glimpses and it's wild and.

The background of my phone has changed from Captain Craigan holding Kimba to Carly Jean's drawing of Bolo because the stripper Bolow's the stripper.

The very talented artist who did our artwork for That's Messed Up did a like prompt where she was like, tell me to draw something, and people.

Just told her to draw Bolo the stripper. I told her, Oh, it was you. Of course.

I had no idea you were the suggestor.

Of course it was me.

And then she wrote to me going, I don't really know what this is, but people are messaging me non stop, like because everyone else was like a troll doll, a giraffe and roller skates and I was like, yeah, Bolo please, I need Bolo and the outfits they go. My favorite is Marlow going fishing boat. I think that's my favorite line because they all think they're going on a yacht and then they go and poor She's like, are we

Yeah, they're definitely like they're just very like open about their bodies and sex positive.

And delly wings on camera they will lick a wing bone like they're oh, yeah, they don't care, they're just oh.

Other franchises I have watched two women I have watched two women on Beverly Hills order a plate of pasta to share, and then I have watched the waiter pick up the full plate of pasta and clear it untouched. Okay, the women on Atlanta have a trough of dead pig that they're just going to town on like they're amazing.

Candy came back from the bow and she goes, I'm hungry, and then the other women are like, oh, we got to feed her.

This will be a disaster.

Yeah, you don't want to get angry with the Atlanta women at all, or.

I just think Bravo as a whole gets disrespected. I don't know if it's like the patriarch or what. But watch What Happens Live and Andy Cohen is the best late night show of all and it's never in the conversation. I don't want to keep talking about Jimmy Kimmel and Colbert. I don't care.

I want Andy Cohen. It's fresh, it's.

Exciting, people are open, they're drinking, there's games like they It just is never in the conversation of late night shows.

No, it's so true.

I hate I think late night is like a dead art form, But I really do think that Watch What Happens Live is so fun and.

He gets huge people. I think Oprah's done it. I mean, have sh Streak done it every Yeah, he gets huge, huge people.

So it's not like it's just Bravo liberties, but just these episodes of television are funnier than any comedian I've ever seen.

Like the things that come out of all these women's mouths. They're falling in bushes, They're fucking a pirate. I mean, Ramona has shit her pants on television twice, twice twice.

Like you never get to see women in that.

It's like have fun and get drunk, and I just it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

Yeah, and you see women of a different age group also as like you know, sexual beings.

And who have like desires and wants and stuff. That's what I love about Bravo.

So hey, guys, this is our non non paid sponsorship of Bravo if you'd like to dip into the Bravo verse.

I went to go buy Bolo merch already sold out the next day.

Albolo's making a nice bag.

From this, it sounded like you just said a bola though Ebola Bolo, which you know at BOLO in the law enforcement world, is stands for be on the lookout.

Wow.

So when they put out a BOLO for like, we're looking for a female five foot seven, brown hair, like, that's there is that way saying like, be on the lookout for his giant dick that's the size of his arm. Be on the lookout for his twelve inch serpentine penis.

Oh my god.

I mean obviously they can't show it, but you see it underpants and it is Oh.

People send me videos of the of the dick, like close up. Yeah, there's a Twitter thread I was sent of him at doing strip shows other places with his.

Oh we and you saw the real thing?

Yes, fuck listen. I love the Internet.

I love texting, I love group chats, I love memes, love a gift.

No one could ever accuse you of not loving the Internet, Lisa. Anyway, let's jump right from Dick Watch twenty twenty one.

To wait, wait, they were on the cover of People. Oh my gosh, Maloney, Benson, Baby Maloney.

Why switching switched?

Stabler and Benson.

Maloney and Hargatea were on the cover of People magazine, clearly doing press for organized crime, which is amazing, but I like loved it. The cover is so sweet, and somebody wrote us a message and really encompassed my feeling on this. It was just really nice to see like a man and a woman on a cover of a magazine that are just friends, like and just celebrating like

Yeah, and like she is a godmother to one of his children.

She didn't even know that, yeah, And he was.

There when like she met her husband, obviously Peter, and like she was like I loved his marriage so much and seeing them showed me what I can have. And it just seems like they inspire themselves outside of the show and works so well together. And in the videos she made fun of his bald head, which you know.

Yeah, they like rib each other and they really they really like make fun of each other and are really like just you can tell they're just like genuine friends. And yeah, she says that she has four pillar men in her life, her father, her husband, Dick Wolf, and Christopher Maloney.

That's like huge, yeah, And it seemed like she was about to tear her up or maybe I was reading too into it, but when she was talking about she goes. I mean, usually when people leave a show, the audience gets used to it, but it is such a testament to what they created that we're ten years out from uh Maloney leaving and people are still obsessed with those first twelve seasons. Yeah, and love them so much and it is like, yeah, you guys really created something that we can't get enough of.

Right.

So anyway, that came out last Friday, so it's on your news stands now.

So go get it.

And then I don't know if it was in our personal chats or on the That's messed up accounts, but someone wrote to us like Kardashian is probably furious she's not on.

This week's cover.

Yes, look, somebody wrote, Kim is so furious she didn't get the cover of her divorce. Yes, and you know what, Sorry, all right, let's get into today's episode.

Okay, this is Serendipity Season five? I have episode five, which seems kind of magical, you know, fifty five.

Maybe it's not, but I like it.

So we start out and it's the center of disease control and Ghostbuster style outfits and they're doing stuff in a sewer. And then a woman who I think I could play a very just an annoying Jewish New Yorker, I would say, holding a paper bag of groceries. Who uses paper bags without handles? I just I don't even know.

But this is a classic SVU thing where it's just like a nosy New Yorker being like, what are you doing?

What is that? What's happening? Like they alway kind is it?

Answer X so many questions and they're like, go on with your day.

We're going to figure this out.

And then she peeks over we see a little babyhand and she goes, I hope that's a baby. I changed the accent. She said, I hope that's a bit. I can't do it whatever. She hopes it's a baby doll. It's clearly long order sview it is not a doll, and that is a baby in a trash bag in a sewer, and done, done, it's SVU baby.

That was really tough to watch. It was tough to see that little baby hand.

It was a cute hand. It was definitely upsetting.

It was a really cute hand.

So then we get to the credits, and what is interesting to me is Diane Neal is in the cast photo in the end, and so I'm wondering if the people watching this live were like, who's that woman?

Yeah, you know, because this is her first.

Episode, huge deal, we meet Casey Novak, but she was in that photo, and I just wonder if the hardcore audiences interesting.

I mean, I don't know if you've watched enough of it, Like that photo kind of just rolls over you because like you've seen so many.

No, that's when you're getting snacks, that's like when you're running around. But I was like, whoa, I had that photo for next week.

What are you guys up to?

So we learned that if the water was any higher, the baby would have washed into the East River. So it's like all of these things are helping us find this child. There's a baby blanket, bilical cord is still attached, and there's no obvious trauma. So this is obviously confusing like the baby at a blanket, it wasn't her, Like, what the fuck's going on? And then I love one SVU is acab on their own because we have another street officer and he goes, hey, there's an endocrinologist, and he's not.

He's an entomologist.

So I really loved that he couldn't keep it straight, which I love, and I have an endocrinologist.

I'm not bragging, but I do have a thyride problem.

So they talk to the bug guy and this is very, very gross, but it happens a lot on forensic files. Through the development of like larvae and bugs or whatever, you can tell how long the body has been there, and so this is very very a fresh baby. So they know that the mother lives close by, and they immediately find her building because they're the best. And can

Like so nice and like just a sweet like maintenance man or landlord, just yeah, I'm.

Making jokes running up the stairs and like I'm watching rom like I will piss in your face, and here I'm like, can I sign a lease?

It's funny too when they're like any boyfriends, It's like, would your landlord know if you had a boyfriend? Like, my landlord would never knew a thing about me. I barely ever saw my landlord face to face, you know what I mean?

In New York landlords are a touchy subject to me since I was almost poisoned with carbon monoxide multiple times. But so yeah, I think, not only have my landlords not known about me, they tried to murder me seriously and you're sleep in my sleep and then yell at me for calling the fire department.

New York, New York.

So they go into the apartment and it's really fucked up. They see a woman on her bed, there's a lot out of blood and what the fuck happened here? So someone ripped out the baby. She died, and then they dumped the baby in the sewer. And this is my favorite month, trying to be a human. And so he's talking to one of the neighbors and it's an elderly woman with a lot of birds, and you know, she's like, the birds loved the woman.

So that was like her litmus test for who's a good person. She must have been a good person because my birds loved her.

Yes, but she didn't hear anything because of her hearing aids and anyone that owns a bird, I'm sorry if you're listening, I don't care if you come for us. You're a psychopath pet birds are well, that's not true. I've switched because of t'chala from Potomac. I'm like, I could get into a bird.

So Lisa was Sin's calling you all psychopaths.

Bird.

Sorrybird, you can have birds.

You can now have a bird if it's a beautiful gray parrot that repeats what you say.

And then you know, they talk to another neighbor who's working from home very twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, and he didn't hear thing, and they're like, she was giving birth. What do you mean you didn't hear anything? And he's like, she was kind of quiet, Like no one is quiet during birth, is the point that they make. And I see as a long ass ponytail here and it's just nice to reminisce about the old ponytail days.

So Melinda Warner are beautiful MD. She said that it's Emmy, Liza. I just may say MD all the time, and it is Emmy. I just want you to know, Okay.

So Melinda, she said that someone helped deliver the baby and cleaned up the after birth. And so they're at the scene trying to solve it. Was there a stroke, there's no evidence of foul play. Maybe they found her too late, like they don't.

Know what's up.

And then Elliott finds great evidence some prenatal vitamins, so they know that she went to a doctor. So off to the doctor they go. She wasn't due it for another three weeks, but trauma could lead you into labor.

The doctor said.

She was like detached and not really into the pregnancy at all, didn't care about any of the results, but had all of these tests, like so many high class tests done and she came from a free clinic to this fancy, fancy doctor situation.

We find out her name is Brianna.

Moore, but the credit card is charged with a Ron Wolcott and he works at the Flavor Institute, which sounds great. I love food science and restaurant You know, we're not supposed to know what it is, but I knew a food scientist once, and it's impressive to me.

Who makes all those flavors of Lays.

So they go to Ron Wilcott's house and they see a woman with another paper grocery bag, which I how, I just this was never a memory in my life.

You well, I guess not. But I think if you're picking up stuff at a bodega, I mean you usually get a plastic bag. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, they all have handles now. It is very retro. Maybe it's just of the time.

Yeah, And she has you know, fresh flowers in there, and I thought it looked like Twizzlers, but who knows.

So the woman's like, oh, we know Brianna.

Well, because they try to play it off like someone's steal your card. They went to this doctor and so then we find out this woman knows Brianna and Brianna is actually carrying her baby. So we find out Brianna is carrying this baby for the Woolcotts and paid for their expenses. They paid for her to have a better apartment, They paid for everything so she didn't have to work because she had a really tough, demanding, physical job, and the adoption was set through mutual friends and we're off.

I don't know.

So then we go meet the friend Marcy Cochran, who works at the Flavor Institute with Ron Wilcott, but volunteers at a hotline. So Brianna called the Metro hotline and started talking to Marcie, and we find out she didn't want to commit suicide but was very sad, and she met the baby daddy in a park.

It was her dream guy.

They fucked and then he gave her a fake number and so she was never able to reach him, and so she became pregnant from this one night stand. And Marcy and her became super close and they talked at their house and Elliot's like, was that fucking normal? And she goes, no, but we connected, and then what we find out is she either convinced her, pressured her, led her to agree to give the baby to the Wolcotts. I think Marcy is crossing the line of ethics here,

He suffocated her by sitting on her chest.

Yeah, because there.

Was like a button imprint from her dress on her chest, so it's really upsetting. She was also injected with a sedative that sedates you, but you can feel everything, but you can't do anything about it. So again, this person is fucking evil, Like you're already doing evil shit?

Can you like whatever the sedative is called?

Verse said, And then you know they're like, but how did she give birth to the baby if she's sedated? And of course Melinda has an answer, and it's basically a synthetic form of a hormone that was put into her anus via a suppository to make her give birth. Jesus, it's sick. And it's like, this is a sicko. And we watch a lot of sview and this is a fucking demented sicko. He's deranged, like she felt everything, couldn't move, forced her into labor, suffocated her, and ripped her baby out?

To flaor institute just sounds like so funny.

I mean it sounds like what's his name, Guy Fieri's like school of cooking or something.

Yeah, who's been very good at trying to help restaurants and save restaurants during this time. I know people hate him because of his blonde tips.

I think he is slowly like coming out to the other side of being like a joke.

I think people like him now.

And I want to say I give a little credit to Shane Torres for the guy fear he flip around. He had a very amazing joke about it, and he did it on television, and I give him credit. So, you know, they're fighting with Ron. The Wolcotts deny it. They search their place and everything, and they're like, it's not us, it's not us, and so as of view are I'm beginning to think this is not the person. While they're searching, Casey Novak appears out of thin air.

Which I like.

Benson is immediately really antagonistic towards her.

It's funny, yeah, right away, And you know, and I just love Casey's hair here. It looks like she just got out of bed and it's insane, no products, just like a ragamuffin a hair situation.

It's so funny to me.

But you know, the Ada walks in and Stabler knows her from the cop lawyer softball team game.

I don't know they played softball, which we.

Are obsessed with.

Diane Neil in another episode has a baseball style like three quarter T shirt that says sex crimes on It.

The greatest merch ever and we need it immediately because yeah, so they know each other from softball, and Stabler's like, get out of here. This isn't what you're supposed to do. You're a lawyer, and she's like, I like to be hands on. I want to get in the dirt with everything, and they're like, get the fuck away from us. Then

So they find a stack of books.

So Casey Novak's like, how do we know she wanted to keep the baby, and Benson sees what to expect when you're expecting types of books, and she goes, yeah, but when did she get them? And it's like from the live and there's stamp dates. Yeah, but then she does help out a little. There's a book called skin Diseases for the elderly, So why would a young woman have that?

Can I just ask really quickly that if anybody's listening, can you and you have like a law background or I know we have some like law students and stuff who listened to us, Just like, let me know how often eightas are like searching crime scenes on their own. I just feel like that's not a thing. But in this show, like Careesi's doing unassisted pull ups, people are like eightas are just showing up on the scene all the time, and I feel like they're more courtroom focused.

So please let me know if that's a normal thing. Yeah.

The tag team relay race continues, and we're at the library, and every library and in a New York City library knows Brianna and everything she's ever done in the.

Library, Like it is really incredible.

She's there all the time, and what we find out is She saw a magazine with a photo of a man and went and said, how do I get information on him?

Went to a different.

Librarian who showed her the name and the books he wrote, and then immediately she asked, give me a book or information on paternity tests. So we now find out there's this dermatologist who is the baby daddy? Who is this one night stand and she obviously let him know. So then we're at a super fancy office and this doctor is denying it all. He has his own line of skincare with pretty displays, but not like a normal suspect. He agrees to a paternity test very quickly and says, actually,

So we're in the interrogation room.

He's denying it the whole time, and then Casey Novak's interrupting the case like she's getting too involved Stabler in her r fighting. It's just a really hectic interrogation scene where he's denying everything. Casey Novaks wants to be by the book constantly, and then we get the sexiest man of all, Trevor Langen.

He comes in Marishka Hargate's real life husband, Peter Herman.

Yeah, and so he's there to protect a pedophile like always, and you know he did do good work but in the future, but whatever. So mister Benson's looking fine as hell and he comes and starts defending mister Skip, so you know, what they know about pedophiles is it's never just one. There's got to be a pattern, and we have to find more victims because pedophiles don't stop at one, especially if they're not caught, Like something is up here.

I feel like they've been extended more in a lot of states. But maybe I'm I might, I might not know that, Like I think that a lot of people feel the same.

Way you do.

I just it's really does not help victims. It's it's very annoying to me. So they meet this girl and she has really sweet, curly hair, and she's got an attitude because obviously she's dealt with a lot of trauma. And we find out that this is like a honey kind of rapist. Where he carries herround packets of honey that he puts on his dick and makes children lick it off, and then that leads to sexual assault and they find a case two months prior with this honey signature, and Casey's.

Like, we're bringing the kid in. We're bringing the kid.

In for a lineup, and everyone at the SVU is like, yo, this is gonna we can't bring a child this young in.

It's gonna fuck her up.

And if she does something right, like no, and she's fighting with them, and it's like, Casey, you came from white collar crimes, Like why are you not listening to these special victim detectives that are telling you this is a bad idea.

The child comes in.

She's so cute, so cute, honestly, I mean, we have an incredible guest and I can't believe we have her. But my second choice was this kid, like even before pastor skip, this kid lives rent free. In my mind, I like her so much, so sweet, and she's Alicia, and she's so scared, and she does a bad job quote unquote like doesn't name the suspect.

And so she's like, I'm sorry.

And then you know, Benson goes to yell at Casey Novak for being a dumb bitch, and Casey Novak is crying and understands what she did was not good. So Benson and Novak talk about dating, and we find out everyone in the Special Victims unit has a clusterfuck of bad marriages and divorces and dating experiences, which is not news to us.

And Casey's like, why do you do it? She's like, because someone's got to, because they're heroes.

So Casey goes to Newland's wife to convince her, like, why aren't you helping us? We know that you're lying, and reveals that there's DNA evidence, and then you see that she has shook because he never mentioned the DNA. She's a doctor, she knows DNA doesn't lie.

Lisa, do you watch Handmaid's Tale?

I don't know. It's too scary. Oh okay.

I get like a very Yvonne Strahowsky, who plays the main bad guy's like wife. I get a bit vibe from that from her. Well I know her from Dexter. Yes, it's her from Dexter. Like I get that vibe from the wife, like the tight braid and like just like the way she's pouring a drink while she talks to Casey. I was just getting very Handmaid's Tale vibes. But go on, well, no, someone that's not drinking right now.

Trust me, in my notes it did say whiskey and I wanted some, so I didn't mention the drink. I'm glad you did, so you know, good move on, Casey. I don't think it's part of the rules. So Trevor and Casey they're fighting with a judge about legal stuff, and it's the judge with the red curls, Judge Lois Preston, which I think we should could say.

Can I think she's.

Yes, she's a full, no nonsense bitch judge and I love her.

Yeah.

So now we are in the courtroom and Pastor Skip's not showing up to court, so that's a big deal. And then the funniest thing that's ever happened on SVU we have So they set up Trevor to meet Pastor Skip in a diner, and then Munch and Finn are sitting and we learn that Much is a bad investor in dive bars and restaurants, which, thanks for that tidbit. He's like trying to get Finn to invest in this diner,

They're like, yeah, good riddance. Oh I thought that it was the pedophile. Oh really, I for some reason I thought that, Hannah, have you watched this episode? I don't think they mention it, but I think that's like assumed. I don't think it's assumed it's his wife.

Yeah, I think it's the pedophile because she's like, you can't He's like whatever, you did to like implicate me or like implicate yourself, like you're not getting away.

I think they thought like if he died, it would just end the.

Case and the person could continue, and the person could continue.

So he's murdered, shot in the back of the head, and basically there's another crime scene, you know, terrible.

Another girl was snatched. There's a honey packet.

Beady Wong found it and he was just saying, this is like a last Tarrah and the kid could be dead.

So they really have to get to work.

And so we're at the Emmy's office and we have a pastor skip on the slab and Melinda's giving the rundown of what's going on. He has this giant scar on his upper arm and they find a tube of blood inside of his arm, and everyone is super confused. Melinda is like, yeah, he could have given himself a local and did it himself.

And everyone's like, but why would anyone do this? And then we have bead Wong.

He's not in the FBI for no reason, and he goes oh to beat a paternity test. So basically, this dermatologist to get out of a double homicide, took some blood from the dermatology office implanted it in a tube into his arm, and that blood happened to be a pedophile rapist.

I mean, can you make this stuff up?

I don't know, all right, So the conversation is, why wouldn't he just come forward? And it's like, would you rather be a pedophile rapist or a double homicide person? And like, I don't know. It's it seems like a hard decision to make. But rich like older people like that, like white dudes, like I think he thought he was

No, I have a warrant for you.

And wait, hold on, are those plugs and worms in ba? And I'm actually a fisher lady. So all of a sudden, she's a fishing expert, and she notices the rods are rusted, and so she knows that he fishes in saltwater. There's a photo of the boat and the boat has some perverted honey slip.

What's an honeydew.

It's called honeydew like the melon, but it's more disgusting.

Yeah, So they run to this boat place, and you know, they see a guy and they think that it's him, and then they tell Casey Novak like she's a bad, bad child.

They're like, you stay right here and don't you come any too close.

So they start chasing the pedophile he's running and then he stabler gets him in the water and then as Stabler and his perfect anger problems, he keeps dunking him in the water way too long and just really trying to drown this guy, and we're into it. And then Casey Novak listens to her instincts reaches into the cooler and she ends up saving the victim and there's a girl in the cooler, and so she is now holding this child.

It's like the end of a.

War movie and she is the hero that saves the kid and hopefully the end it's a slam dunk case for her first case. And then she goes to from da Arthur Branch who's played by Fred Thompson, and she's.

Like, I can't do this job. This isn't for me.

It's too much, and he goes, You're perfect for the job because you care, and you know, he's a real senator Fred Thompson, who then became.

This character and is so good at it. I didn't know that.

Yeah he ran for president.

Wow, that's amazing.

Yeah, he was a Republican who represented Tennessee for a while.

Wow, that's amazing.

He just became like right after he was done, he became this like sort of long running character on the show.

And he knew that Casey Novak was gonna thrive in this position. So we're gonna take a break and we'll be back to hear about the wild.

Real life events. Okay, we are back. I hope you enjoyed those advertisements.

So a couple of things we wanted to just bring up up top from the first half of the show. Lisa was talking about Statute of Limitations. So it turns out that the Statute of Limitations was originally founded to ensure that people were not getting convicted with old and degraded evidence. But I think that that was made like pre DNA and the preservation of DNA and stuff like that.

Hope other states will follow suit.

But let's get into this crime. This is really fucking wild. I definitely have seen forensic files in my life. I know Lisa is a big fan. I just have it in a while, watch the forensics files, and I watched one on this case, and it was a treat and a dream, like it's really just so funny. And I've been in well, I don't know Funny is the word. The reenactments are funny to me. The reenactments are funny, like that's it. Sorry, And it's so dramatic, very dramatic.

I've been in a YouTube hole and I was watching Juliet Lewis interviews and she is very into forensic files. And then all the YouTube comments were like, well, where is the scientology guy's wife?

Why don't you forensic files? That one? Every comment was like.

Why are you miss cabbage? Let's get one on that.

That's so funny.

Okay.

So this crime that I'm about to talk to you guys about happened in a small Canadian farm town called Kiplings in Saskatchewan. It's a place where the farmumb animals outnumbered the residents. Everybody knows who everybody is. They're known for like maybe five to six sexual assaults a year, break ins, like just a very like low key crime situation in this part of Canada. And Halloween nineteen ninety two, this woman named Candy was working at a gas station.

Her a shot.

She goes numb almost right away, has no control over her muscles. She says she tried to scream, but it just came out like a croaking sound like, So it's terrifying. It's almost like it's almost like in a situation like this, I don't know what you think, Lisa, Like, I would rather just be fully knocked out than have this like paralyzing.

You know what's going on, but you're paralyzed.

Well, I think that's a part of the episode where it's like these people are extra sick, you know, like they want the person to suffer and remember it.

Yeah, because it's probably, as a doctor, very easy to grab, like a full anesthetic that knocks someone out right.

Like.

So anyway, she's not sure what happens next, but she believes that she was raped because she was semi awake, and she's like, you know, she kind of describes it as like you know when you're at the dentist and you kind of feel them wriggling around the tooth, like you know, they're moving your tooth around even though you're not feeling the pain. So it's like that's what she kind of equates her feeling when she woke up, so

She is so smart. She fucking does everything right.

In this case, she wakes up, she places her underwear in an air tight bag. The nurses had convinced her to stay overnight, and she didn't mention the event to them, which people later think is suspicious. And I'm like, why would she trust nurses if she wakes up and the doctor has just raped her? Like, why would she trust? I wouldn't trust anyone around me. I'd be like, what, they're in.

Cahoots, especially since the nurse is the one that said, oh, you should go see the doctor, right.

So you like, I don't think it's weird she didn't mention it to these nurses, Like like what I mean? I just I think that's a completely normal reaction.

Well, it's also, like you mentioned, like she did everything right, and that's like the whole argument sometimes with I don't even know with who, but like, a rape victim can never do everything right because someone will always find some weird thing where it's like, but you were wearing a bathing suit and it's like so what, like they look People that don't want to believe rape victims will find any reason to devalue or like not listen to a story.

And I don't mean to imply that any rape victim is doing anything wrong now by not doing the things that this woman's doing. All I'm saying is she clearly knew about like DNA, and like this is only nineteen ninety two. She knows a lot about DNA. She knows like about chain of evidence and everything like that. Like she does, she takes a lot of steps that actually help her case. Is what I'm meaning to say, Well, no, I know I didn't think you said that. I I was just clarifying.

But even if she like went to the nurse, they would be like, but what about that? Or like if she waited till the next day to text a friend, or she didn't do like there. It's like the fucking defense attorneys on SVU. They will find any random ass thing to inflate to be a reason why you're lying.

Right, Well, and here's what happened.

So the next day she confronts doctor Schneberger and goes, what the hell was that drug you gave me last night?

And he goes, why did it give you bad dreams?

So's she knew immediately that he was trying to cover his tracks, like with when he said that like that he was trying to make it seem like she had hallucinated this. So like they have interviews with her parents were like they're just very Canadian.

They're like, I was really hoping it wasn't true.

A like every they have like a lot of a's, and it's just like I always think that that's exaggerated because I have a lot of Canadian friends who don't say A. But these people are very Canadian in this some thing, and they're very sweet people.

But anyway, the.

Parents could tell from her face they believed her immediately. They could tell something was up, which I just like love supportive parents.

So Candy knew she couldn't.

Go back to get like a test at that hospital on her like body, So she drives to Regina rhymes with vagina. I don't know why they don't call themselves Regina And that's a two hour drive away. So she drives herself two hours away to go to a rape clinic for testing. They find semen on her jeans, in her underwear and in a vaginal swab, so very like smart that she drove there probably without showering or anything.

She was pretty positive.

But you know, and they find the exact same drug they use in the episode verse said in her system, which is this pre anesthetic agent that's supposed to like, you know, loosen you up and make you sort of numb before I think you get fully put under, and so you're still semi conscious.

So many people in the town believe that Candy was lying.

It's this small town, it's this typical thing of he is this respected doctor and a respected member of the community. Candy's like a twenty three year old girl, apparently prone to emotional outbursts. She's an unwed mother and has a reputation as a party girl. I mean, okay, whatever.

I just saw a Instagram quote that said, how come this like single mothers are the ones vilified when they're the parent that stayed. Hmmm yeah, patriarchy, Like why are we not mad that these people that are leaving their kids?

So yeah, so they thought all these people thought that Candy was in it for a relationship with the doctor, like they wanted to have her, like she was what blackmailing him into a relationship, or that she was in it for money, and like people, like I said, people were suspicious, she didn't say anything to the nurses.

I think that's complete bullshit.

And then, much like in this episode with Pastor Skip, doctor Schneberger willingly agrees to give blood for the DNA tests and it doesn't match, and Candy's like, that's impossible, but she would not let this issue died. She insisted that someone had tampered with the DNA test that was ninety two.

He agreed to a second test in ninety three, which was monitored by the police.

Once again, the DNA did not match the DNA on the rape kit, and the doctor had said that versaid can cause erotic hallucinations. And then there's a senior prosecutor in the forensic files who goes, yeah, but it can't produce semen, So like, how did this semen get inside of her? That's like not her boyfriends, and like she you know, she doesn't know whose it is, so the town is not being kind to can't and that's making me very mad. But she hires a private investigator who

I know that.

Chapstick does have a black container, but I don't know if there are other black containers. They'll put lubricants on the market, lip lubricants. Chapstick is the brand, Okay, so it's the classic brand of chopstick. Which this is like the bird thing. Don't buy classic? What are you doing? Get a strawberry? I get the red I get the cherry, of course.

Yeah, so Candy has the chopstick at her own expense. She pays for the cells on the lip bomb the chopstick to get tested and they match. So now in her mind she just knows that she's right about what happened, which is probably a great victory for her. But of course they can't use this evidence in it's inadmissible because the investigator broke into the car. So now we have to figure out, like why the DNA from the lips is different from the DNA in the blood. Candy filed

This was videotaped by police.

And performed in their lab, and i've the video is in this forensic files. The tech wants to take blood from his finger, but he says he has a disease that would cause his hands to bruise. Like boo fucking who take the prick out of your finger, like, I really don't care if you get a bruised hand. And it's a voluntary test, so they can't force him to do anything he doesn't want to do, so she takes it from his left arm instead. The needle goes in and nothing comes out, and the tech actually said it

So she's really pissed off.

She says, quote, they have to follow the rules of the Canadian justice system. I like to call it the Canadian criminal system because that's what it is.

The criminals have all the rights. So she's pissed.

Because now we're going on like five years that this case has not like had no break, and she's positive it's this guy. So in ninety seven, five years after the rape, the police do get a break, a tragic break, a horrible break. Schneberger's step daughter, his wife's child, claims that the doctor has been assaulting her in the same manner for years, that he's been coming into her room

I was a bulldog on the stand. I kicked his lawyer's ass.

He's supposed to be the best lawyer in Saskatchewan, while I showed him whose boss. Like she was just really really cute and funny, and she was right all along, and she was so determined. And he was found guilty of sexual assaultings her drugging, unobstructing justice, and all all these supporters of a Candy and Lisa were in the when he got taken away after they were all clapping and yelling by John, which reminds me of that other case where they were like bye like her friends in

Where is he from?

He's from Africa, He's actually front He's Rhodesian, which I believe is Zimbabwe now.

And he was deported eventually back to South.

Africa where he lives with his mother. In two thousand and three, he was denied parol again, but then later in two thousand and three he was released, having served four out of the six years so for raping this woman while she was barely conscious and raping his teenage daughter, a stepdaughter for years. He got four years in prison, which is disgusting.

But well, you also know how like if you're a professional boxer or something and you punch someone, you are sent like the crime is heavier because you have body is a weapon. Like that should be the case with doctors. Like if you have a job where you're trusted and you're supposed to help the community, like you should get in trouble for breaking that code.

I don't know, no, I totally agree.

And he was of course stripped of his medical license in Canada and was deported back to South Africa in two thousand and four and tried to register as the doctor there but then suddenly withdrew his application. And now and then all I have found is articles from two thousand and four that say he lives with his mom. You cannot find any recent information about him in like the past like sixteen years.

And then I don't know if you're going to get to this, but I remember this episode of Forensic Files and they were interviewing the people from the town that even with all this evidence and conviction, were still on the doctor's side.

Yes, yes, Afterwards they said that like Candy's like some people in town still believe I set this whole thing up, and like, I don't really care. I'm like, Candy, you're too good for Kipling, Saskatchewan. Get the hell out of there. Yeah, come visit us.

No, Candy is a fucking badass, and the fact that she kept pushing and went so far out of her way to catch this guy is really amazing.

Yeah, because I think it took seven years.

It took seven years from the crime to the guilty verdict, and I think people a lot of people would have given up, and rightfully so, not to judge anyone that does give up, because a lot of times you just think this system's not going to work for me. But luckily it did work out, and he unfortunately is fucking free, but he can't practice medicine anymore, so hopefully he doesn't have access to victims.

But that's that story. Wild case.

And I wonder if this case has inspired other lunatics to do this too blood thing or people have gotten away with it. It's just a real like there needs to be some kind of rule where you have to take your clothes fully off to give blood. I don't know, but this is insane.

Well, it's so crazy to me too that this guy like did three tess He almost beat three tests. I mean he did beat three tests. Technically the last one was degraded. And it's weird that he wouldn't know enough to just like replace the blood for the third test, Like he was using the same batch blood.

It was the same tube every time.

Yeah, the same tube three times, which is why I think within a year it worked. But then the next test was a couple of years later, and like at this point that blood's like a few years old, and it.

Was like the tech in the day they had they show the.

Tech like talking in the forensic files like to I guess, doing video notes, and she's like, I don't know. The blood looked kind of like I don't know how to say this, like not fresh like so, and that's a person that draws blood all the time, so I guess they know.

But then the blood wouldn't match unless he had it from the same person.

Right, That's what I'm saying.

But if it's the same I guess I thought, like, oh, if it's the same patient, so you have like kind of a little stockpile of their blood that you're keeping in a fridge somewhere, if you're such a if you're a doctor and you came up with this crazy plan, keep a little stockpile of the blood.

And I would like to know if the nurse said her up and this was a partnered situation, like why would you, why would.

You even suggest it?

And I mean, there's just no way to know that he's she's the only victim, Like Candace and the actual Lisa, the wife said, you know, he always wanted to give our kids injections whenever they had like headaches or anything like that. She was always like, what about like aspirin and he'd be like, this is faster. So he was like very injection happy. And I think that's like just really freaky to me that this guy just wanted to like sedate people all the time.

And it just shows you, no matter how much evidence, there are people that are.

Just like, he didn't do it.

I don't know what to tell you, Like, yes, she went into his home, took an old condom, somehow got it way deep up inside of her.

It's just crazy. Kara, thank you for telling us all about that case. It is truly messed up. Did you guys like that.

We'll be right back with an interview for the Ages.

Lisa. I don't even know how to introduce this next guest.

She literally when we've done a poll on our instagram of who is everybody's favorite Adas, she is one of the tops that people choose. She spent several seasons on this show, blowing us away as an assistant district attorney. You can also catch her in the upcoming Lifetime movie Circle of Deception. We are beyond thrilled to share our conversation with Casey Novak aka Diane Neil. So let me

And kind of like everyone that's ever been on an episode of sp right, like everyone, yeah, I see was in the weird movie.

But people always dm us because they don't. They're like, I just saw Novak as a different character, or They'll be like I just saw Rollins as a rape victim, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, Like do you guys know, Like I think they're always surprised when like a regular has been on before.

You know, that's totally true. I thought. The weirdest though, was on the Mothership.

I don't know if you guys are into the Mothership, but when like Jeremy Sisto was like a cop and then just came back at the end of the next season as a different human being and a lawyer.

And I was like, what, Yeah, that's like that takes me out of it a little bit.

No, So that episode that I was the rapist and the murderer, it was crazy because I had it was like my first big gig.

Yeah, Like I was looking at your IMDb and I was like, oh, this seems like it was kind of one of her first things.

Oh that was that was like it. And I had no idea what I was doing.

I didn't know like what marks were on the ground. I didn't know like basics.

You would never know. You seemed like a pro.

Yeah you have this one look when you're sitting what is it the table with the lawyer and yeah, you make this evil sexual face that is so good.

Oh my god.

And the crazy part is I was like twenty two. I had no idea what I was doing. And the worst is and this is totally true, and so I hope nobody's saved this one before, but it's the first scene that I shot in that first episode was on Fifth Avenue in like fifty seventh street.

I don't know why. It was like an exterior with Munch and Finn. And the problem with.

Like Ice in Belzer is like they're so recognizable and for so long and from everything that happened in their entire careers before SPU.

So every time.

They'd yell action and I'd walk out this building door.

You know, home like a murderer. And I don't know how murders walk with that. It's my impression. And somebody you're like you eyes sort of like hard Bowzer cut.

That's crazy because I always think about that.

I'm like, I know they can block off streets to stop people, but how can they stop people from yelling?

And like you know, oh my god, no they can't.

At the amount of adr that you do in the show, which is like you know, waist overloving, some people are how like it's where like the sound got messed up when you're filming and so you have to go and lip sync with yourself on like a big screen and it's super weird. But well, there's so much adr in it. Because yeah, everyone on the streets, they're just you'll.

Like, yo, yeah, yeah, every much just screenings constantly.

That's so funny because I recognized where you were. I was like, oh, they're kind of near Rockefellers set. They're like a little bit near Rockefeller Center, and I know where they are, and I noticed in that scene specifically how many people there were.

I just feel like, I felt like the street was super super busy.

Oh it was like the middle of the day in Midtown, Like it was nuts.

But like so like fifty takes, it was like my first scene, and like you know how you just get progressively more nervous by the time. Like I walked out the door the one we actually got, I was like a monster, like twitching hands were claws.

Like everything everything was bad.

I was like where the director pulled me aside and he's like and he's still a friend of mine. He's this awesome dude named Gus Mackris, and he's just like, hey, Diane, can you just maybe act like a human, just say the words like a human, just you know, look and walk and act like a human. I'll do my best, like speak like a human too.

I'm like, okay, you know, it's like, I'll do what I can.

It was so stressful.

So then how did it come about you coming back like seasons later to be Casey.

Did they offer it to you?

Did you have to audition? Like what was that process?

It was crazy? So it was like a year and a half.

Later, and it was like, you guys know pilot season, pilot and I'm older than you guys are, but when pilot season back in the day, so he used to book the dramas first, and then the comedies of the book first, and then like I had a show in first, second, and third position right where I get to star and which was so much fun.

But anyway, none of them go to series.

But the main one was on NBC and Stephanie was leaving SPU and so they're like, we want to bring her into audition for this, and so it was really crazy. My friend Cody Depablo plagues e n CIS. So Cody remembers this. I don't remember this, but apparently it was three of us in the waiting room. It was me, Cody de Pablo and someone else for like the final audition and go in and I remember doing it, and then I remember leaving and I remember thinking it was the worst audition I'd ever.

Had, like ever.

Wow.

I was like, wow, just shit.

You might allowed to yeah, okay, all right, but like I was like, wow, I shit the bed like I shit the bed, like I shpit the bed.

I rolled around in the shit in my bed.

Then I wore it as a cape and went outside and showed everyone my shitty sheets like just bad.

I was like, well that's that. And I didn't hear anything for weeks.

Wow, yeah it was.

It was weird.

So I just figured, obviously, that's not happening. Like I didn't think twice about it after walking out of the room, to be honest, because it was.

Like, you like, train yourself when I was auditioning all the time in New York, I just trained.

Myself to forget about it the second I walked out.

Of the room.

Right immediately, I was like, and then if I get a call, it'll be a nice surprise.

Right, I assume you get nothing if it happens, and it's like, hey, so.

Anyway, I get this call out of the blue. They're like, do you want the job?

And so you know, they're like, look, they're only going to pay this much, which was you know, TV minimum wage.

But it's like, but it's already on the air, right.

So it's better than the pilots that you're doing that you make a fortune but never go anywhere.

Right.

So I'm like, and I really don't like LA, Like I like, I detested on a cellular level.

I don't know if it's just the sunshine. I mean, you see how pale I am. I'm like, it's horrifying.

So I h I was like, yeah, I get to stay here and be on a really good show with really good people.

And then it.

Was nuts because like you go and then you start to and work with starting in like a week, and I was like, oh yeah, all right, and.

Then they have you do all the promo photos. But the best is they have you do the promo photos and then they pull you out. So then they would just have like marish getting you know, just in case you didn't work out.

They're like, you know, like just let's just cover our basis. We don't want to do another photo shoot, Like all right, yeah, you just.

Come on out of there.

So it was like a really kind of the greatest thing in the universe about being on SBU and starting So I was like twenty four, maybe twenty five.

Yeah, it was only yeah, if it was only a couple of years later season five, Yeah, yeah.

It was just it was just one of those things that I'm really happy that it happened.

But all the.

Things I knew about episodic television were things I learned from like Extra and Access Hollywood, and zero percent of that was true.

Had you watched any of the first four seasons of SBU, No, I was like way more of.

Like a South Park kind of family guy. I like stupid things, you know, I like things that make me laugh.

No, I mean we like stupid things too, just because we love them.

It's true, it's true, But it's like it was cracks because sometimes, like if you meet like a super fan, you'd be like, oh, man, whish do you like more the rape or the murder?

Which one?

Because it's like, Wow, it's really kind of a creepy show. You used to get me a nightmare? Totally would give me nightmares.

No, there are parts of the show leads and I talk about all the time that haunt us like to this day, like very very traumatic parts of it. But it is like it's such a cult like show people are obsessed with it and we are part of those people.

I totally get I get it. By the way, the one that still gives me nightmares is Ritual. The episode Ritual.

Is that what the guy from Lost with the boy?

I don't know if it's I never watched Lost either. Sorry.

He was like an art gallery, like African art dealer.

Yes, oh yes, yes, yes, and they made it look like Santorrio or some kind of thing. But they were murdering these sex slave children that they and he was.

Bringing them over and then eventually, yes, I just watched that one the other day.

Isn't that crazy? I just watched it for fun the other day.

Dude, Dude, I read the script and I was like, ooo, it gave me full on nightmares.

Like the wife, Like when the wife realizes that her husband is doing this, that is like that is a really crazy.

Oh my god, it's so the whole thing is insane, and which I nuts.

It's like people are so fucked dumb, like this shit really happened.

That's what our podcast is about.

I mean, it's about the real people.

Like we you know, we do an episode and then we talk about the true crime that it's based off of.

Well, I mean like, okay, so this is I don't know which episode this one's for, You'll have to tell me, but like the crazy part about this when we read we had to read through of ritual. I turned to Neil Bhaer, who was the executive producer, and I was like, I.

Was like, Neil, this is insane.

He's like, yeah, it's the third biggest money maker on Earth, human trafficking in the black market.

It's drugs, it's guns, and then it's humans.

And I was just like, hol you know, like my twenty four year old mind or whatever at the time twenty five like blown out of my head because it was just it was it was horrifying, horrifying to think.

About the episode that this interview will be with. Is your first episode Serendipity, Serendipity Honey the Honey Rapist.

Do you want to hear something crazy about that episode?

Yes? Please?

Okay, So my hair in.

Real life this is the this Wow it looks really I'm just like like just a face this we'll be doing like if anyone can home see I look like I'm wearing like a black turtle neck and I'm in all darkness and just my face as light.

It's kind of creepy, it's gross.

But my hair is naturally strawberry blonde, and you know kind of that that medium jew frash, you know where it has to be straightened or it has to be curled, but you can't kind of really leave it. It's not like a cool you can't get curls or anything out of it. It's just but it's really long and it's really blonde. So like when I went back, like in twenty twelve, that's my hair.

Yeah, we were wondering about that. We were like, what your hair was so dark at the beginning.

They chopped it off and then dyed it that purply red.

It's really wild.

And so like when the first episode aired, like my friends and stuff were calling and no one was saying anything about like acting ability or anything like that.

All they would talk about is like, what the fuck happened to your hair?

Dude?

What they do to your hair and you look like your fifth I'm like whatever, man.

It was funny because there was also just like pieces that are curled and like other.

Pieces that are straight. It's just funny.

It look like a water buffalo.

But when you come back later, your hair is great when it's your natural color. I guess that's like goes to show, like when you stick with like what's natural like that you look your hair looks great in those seasons.

Yeah, well it's weird because they would change it every season too. And there was one season I called the Honeybun year where it was just up in these very elaborate like it was misdeus.

Yeah, it was really weird.

And they did one year one season where it was what I call potato chip blonde because it looks like a baked laze.

Oh yeah, they made you really really blonde and like it was a little bit crispy.

Oh man, did my head hurt because they it was it was rough because you know, we have red in your hair. Trying to get that out to make it potato chippy so hard.

So were these all their decisions or were you like, hey, can I go blonde?

Or they were very Oh you know I.

Wasn't even allowed to wear chapstick unless I was given permission.

Wow.

Yeah, I know, like I did other people pick, but that's what you get paid for.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of our favorite wardrobe moments is your softball outfit.

Yeah. Sex Crimes. I love that.

We're obsessed with the sex crime Softball team.

Okay, you know what, we need.

To have some of these made because I had the real one from the show forever because guess what, Apparently that is exactly what was on the Brooklyn SVU NYPD shirts.

It said sex crimes.

So that was Amanda Green co producer and writer Amanda Green because she was a real employee of the real SVU in Brooklyn where she started working for the show.

That was their softball tea. So I was like, that's incredible.

So was there a lot of writers that were former law enforcement tons.

So like you guys, don't you guys probably don't even know this.

Do you want to hear like a super secret's not even super but nobody knows.

Yeah, and she is still one of my.

Closest friends and we worked together on all kinds of stuff. Hopefully we'll have a true crime movie coming out soon. But do you know the writer Christine torres No, So she wrote the one I Came Back?

She was a stage Yeah, look her up.

She's a staff writer the last few seasons, like before Warren Light took over a showrunner. She's the real Novak Oh, she's who my character is based on. So she's a real like prosecutor. She was an eighty a in Brooklyn DA's office.

Wow.

Yeah.

I Mean what we hear the most from like actors when we interview them is like, how the show is such a like well oiled machine, but like you were also on sort of towards the beginning when it was probably still kind of finding that footing, you.

Know, oh yeah, but they were also completely annoyed with me. I mean, like they could not have been because the next.

Youngest person so you think I'm just like twenty four to twenty five, Like the next youngest person was Murushka, So it.

Was wild so and I'm like, oh my god, like if I have this much energy, it was forty four, Like imagine a twenty four. I'm like, hey, guys, how's everybody doing? Wow, we're in the zeitgeist.

This is so cool.

Were you doing shoot this weekend?

And no one else gives a damn because they'm go got kid, Like, no one wants to deal with this asshole.

I'm just like, I love it. I love standing in for myself.

I love being on set all the time, you know, just like a complete moron.

But okay, perfect example. Do you guys know what hot American size?

Of course, I've seen it at times a thousand times, a thousand times, right, So when I first get there, I'm like, oh, that's what I know Maloney from.

I don't know him from OZ. I don't know him from.

Anything like making love to a refrigerator.

Refrigerator.

So I brought an open I would open it every morning, like i'd wake up.

I'd open a can of.

Mixed vegetables part way and I would take it to set with me and I would put it somewhere like.

On his desk or like like six months, six months, go back and finally, and I swear to God, like you know, when he gets mad in those veins in the neck, like that big strung and.

He's like.

Right like just like whoa, like he's going to destroy everyone in his bath, I'm dying of laughter.

And I'm like, oh my god, Chris, I do he's letting wha.

I'm like, uh, dude, so simple wet, hot American summer. And he's like what I'm like, dude, I'm twenty.

Five, and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I completely calm down as completely normal. It was like six months of bit before.

That's an amazing bit to come in.

Oh my god.

Well, you know the.

Best part is is that every time he does something with like the Wet Hot American Summer cast, like Chris will text.

Me a picture of him with the can of Mike Festival.

So it's taken like twenty years, but he finally came around.

He goes, no, I feel like I think that people that find that movie retroactively are like, he does comedy, and it's like he's so good at comedy.

He's so funny. I used to make him do all the time, the one from Harold and Komber.

Where he's like he plays freak show but he's like what lay Krista manally, you know, just all the time.

I'm like, oh my god.

Yeah, it sounds like everybody's really like kind of a jokester on the set a lot.

Everyone's a jokester.

Yeah.

I really wanted to ask you this because we're like intense fans and love the show so much, but like, are people nuts to you on the streets?

Okay, I'll give you like so like New York, you know how it is, you guys, both loved the people.

To ignore the celebs in New York more, I feel you.

Just get this all the time, which is kind of the greatest. Like if you're just waiting for like a light to change or something, people are like, hey, man, love you, and you're like thanks man, you know, like it's just I'm like, who in the world gets to have people tell them that, like I love.

You, like all day.

Like that just what blows me aware that all the people that recognize me with my mask on, I find that truly bizarre.

That's crazy.

Lisa one time recognized her favorite porn star with a mask on and sunglasses on.

Is it is it Rocks Freddy?

No, it's it's Nicky Hearts. She's like a butchery tattooed girl. Oh hello, Yeah.

I just was very impressed with Lisa's ability that is.

And by the way, that's not usually the part you're probably looking at, so like who knows, Like that's hard. But then there are other things like okay, you guys, I was home in Colorado and I was with a friend and we were like in the middle of like nowhere, you know, just like those tiny little towns, and like at the general store that just has you know, it sells everything in the universe. And I kid, you know, I don't know what we ate or where we ate it.

From anything, and I saw this little store.

I'm like, I got like pepto because I'm probably gonna die, And this is like Wall spu is on. It was so crazy, Like I was seriously like then I had to use the restroom, and I did not leave it in a better condition, which is not my life rule. Like it was it was rough, right, But then I finally go up to the front and I get my They didn't have pep so you get like tongues and the girl looks up and she screams and she's.

Like, hey, say now.

Opened the back door and just ran. She just started running. I have no idea where she went. I finally just left a couple of bucks on the counter.

I was like, I got something, go now. But like we were in.

That part of Colorado where like I could have watched her run away for like three days, you know, like she was just.

Going and going and going and going, Oh.

My god, that's amazing.

And it's weird because like I assume you guys didn't grow up with like celebrity parents or anything like that, right.

Like totally.

So for the first year, I thought I had like spinach in my teeth, like the entire year because I'm like Mari is looking at yeah, just constantly.

I had no idea this is a really weird thing.

That's awesome.

Wow.

Well, can we ask you a couple of like little SVU questions.

You can ask me any question you want.

Okay, Let's say you needed a detective asap.

Which one would you like to show up in your doorstep?

Stabler?

Okay, okay, good, good, good answer.

I mean like I'd be so Convinsing showed up too.

But like if like I feel like Stabler has the bulk yes to take care of any kind of problem the physic out of every detective, like you know, no offense to Danny Pino anybody. But like Stabler was like something was going down, he could just like flex a titty, yeah, like knock people.

Over so in shape? So true.

Who would you have like of all these like characters, this could be side characters, judges, whatever, like was there, ever, anybody that you kind of wanted Novac to get romantically involved with.

I thought there was like a little bit of a spark between Chester.

Yeah, he flirted with you.

Yeah, he was definitely like flirty.

I think if they'd hung around for more than a minute, they like they would have hooked up.

That Chester episode.

I mean, that's the reason you lost the Novak stopped being able to be a lawyer for three years.

I know, heartbreaking.

So what do you think Novak did in those three years?

Probably a lot of drugs? No, no, no, I Novak like, that's it.

Chris and I always real Novak and I always joke about this because we have the exact same like overdeveloped sense of justice and kind of single mindedness for all this stuff, and we're always like dumbfounded by horrible.

Things even though we know better. At this point. It's quite amusing. But Novak probably would have gone into private practice.

Yeah, that's probably what she would have done, and then waited until she got to go back again.

And if I had to guess, I'd be like, she's probably a judge.

No, yeah, yeah, is there like a judge that you would see on the call? She or a defense attorney, and you would be like, Oh, we're gonna We're about to have a fun day today.

Okay, he like it's again, not knocking anyone else, just the ones that come to mind.

First, Judge Petrovsky.

We are Judge Petrovski stands over here.

All the way she is. She is like one of my personal life here, she's she's a Chekhov professor at NYU and yeah, no, she's truly one of the most amazing people. And we've stayed friends all these years. And then every time I would see Viola Davis, I was like, it's go time. Yes, it's go time.

No.

I would get so jazz because it was like the most fun thing in the world. Like, Viola is incredible and we have the same size feet. And she won her first Tony wearing a pair of shoes.

That I gave her. Wow, Wow, that's pretty fancy. That was one of my favorites to see on the call sheet.

It's tough because you know, I love Andy Potts, I love you right, Like, there's so many cool people that I'm.

Just like, I love Peter Regert, you know, like I love like all.

So let's say you did commit a crime and you needed a defense attorney.

Who are you hiring?

That's really hard because a lot of them are really slimy.

I know the show makes defense attorneys look like the bad guys, which is funny.

Yeah, so so grody, I might have to go with He was only in one episode, but also one of my favorite guest stars Carrie Elways.

Oh yeah, who like defended his kid, yes, Emily van Camp right, Oh yeah.

I think so, Yes, he was.

He was the only person that I ever got stars struck around that I couldn't spare.

Were you like a big princess bride fan or I was?

I think that's like you know when I was coming of age, you know when you first get tingly and like I was like.

Oh yeah, I'm remembering it because he was a mob attorney.

Yes, yeah, he had a very interesting accent in that episode, like because I think he was doing like a New York accent.

Yeah, it was super weird. It was super weird.

But he's British or something, right.

He's totally British and like delightfully so oh I couldn't get a word out. It's like they used to call me the one take wonder because I could do like even seven pages of legal dialogue and like a take.

I'm like, let's go, people, let's rock.

This out, because it's like it's all an adventure to me, right, I'm like, this is fun, like, let's let's do it.

But he was the I couldn't say.

I was like.

A little and then finally he turned to me, He's like, would you like me to say it? I'm like, are you gonna say it? Oh my god? Are you gonna say it? He's like, as you, Oh my god? And I'm like, okay, I'm fine.

Now that's amazing.

Now I can eviscerate you.

All right.

I do have another set question, A little silly, but what were your go to craft service?

As snacks are your favorite?

Okay, my favorite?

Ice and I were obsessed with these things called uncrustables.

Hold on, ladies, hold on.

I was in love with these things until I finally got my hands on an actual box.

Please read that they're.

Un unstable at room temperature. It's like, happy funball, don't taunt it. But what does it mean that a sandwich is unstable at room temperature?

I swear to God if either one of you have.

A box, so these go find the box because I wonder if it still says like unstable.

At room Town.

They're the kind of thing I only get.

Like.

I just was on a set to weeks ago and I got on crustables from this from the Cross Services Drug because I was like.

This is where I eat them.

They I think it felt cold.

I think it felt cold.

I really think it was probably.

Straight out of the freezer.

Yeah, because I they're my airport snack and they're usually by the water bottles. They're like, so they are You're yeah, they're usually cold. But I didn't ever put it together.

No, well, because you don't expect any food product to be unsatable temperature.

But that's that's kind of my favorite.

Would you like to talk about your upcoming movie a little bit?

So I got to call Out of the Blue from Do you remember Ashley Williams?

She was on an episode.

Yes, so Ashley, this is Ashley Williams's first directing job.

Is this Lifetime movie?

And did you guys meet on us for you?

No?

Randomly we were doing a tandem at the time, so Marishka and I were on one episode and shoot and Ashley was with Chris Maloney.

She was the Purple Maloney's episode.

So we never never the Twain met, but we knew because we're the same age. You know, we're in the same kind of group of people, so we'd always like known about each other. And so she asked me if I wanted this job playing this evil woman, which is really fun to be like the psycho path for a Yeah, because you're usually the justice person, right.

Yeah, And she was totally cool. I was like, Ashley, I put on a little way.

She's like, I love it. Whatever you are she is, and that's perfect. And it's based on this real woman, Peggy Sue Thomas, and it's an and rule book and it's called Circle of Deception.

And we had tons of fun and we filmed it over the summer.

We actually had a shut down because of COVID and then you know, Canada kind of got their shit together a lot earlier, so I had two weeks in quarantine before we could start filming again.

But here's the kicker. Do you guys want to know who else from SPU is in it?

Yes?

Please tomorrow, Touney, it's Warner Baby.

Actually, for my birthday this last year, Kara and our group of girlfriends got me a cameo.

Oh my god, you can thank me for that because I made her. I signed her up on cameo.

Oh my god, wow full circle.

I don't know what to say, Lisa, that was amazing.

She We honestly were like when we go to New York next, I think we're having lunch.

With her, and like we like feel like she's a new friend.

I want to party with Diane a hundred person.

She seems like she gets down, so I don't want to forget to mention that the movie that she's in, Circle of Deception, starring Diane Neil, premieeres March sixth at eight pm Eastern and Pacific on Lifetime. And we were so excited after talking to her and we watched the trailer for this movie, which we will post on our Instagram, that we decided that we would like to do a very special That's Messed Up presents a Circle of Deception

Yeah, we'll have fun snacks with us.

Oh yeah, you'll see we'll eat string cheese in front of you or something you cannot wait.

To watch me. It's string cheese. It is a site to behold and tomorrow tuney, isn't it as well? Yes, so that's two SVU legends, one movie.

So check it out. Lisa, let's get into the post mortem. This was an exciting episode, a ridiculous true crime.

What are your thoughts?

I'm sorry, but nothing has made me happier than knowing iced tea like some crustables, non shelf stable food. Yeah, that will stay in my heart for the ages because I love them too.

And yeah, I like it. That's it. That's it. Nothing else, No other takeaways. Jak.

Yeah, I guess dermatologists are evil and we have to watch our backs.

Trust no one.

Oh, I learned something good from actually a friend who wrote me, who wrote me a message on Facebook, who said, as a librarian, what those librarians are doing in this episode is not okay. We take it really seriously patron's privacy and we would never have just been like giving away all the books this woman reads, or like what her deal is, or how she's pregnant by this man.

So, but does she know the gossip?

Because I was shocked that the librarians knew so much and like all of her comings and goings. I would like to know if does your friend gossip with the peeps?

Does she know?

Oh, I'll have to ask. I mean, I'm sure there's varying degrees of.

I have other friends.

I actually have two or three friends that have like degrees in the library sciences, so I.

Will definitely check with them.

But I think you get a whole cast of characters at a library, and I miss the library.

Yeah, the smell is great, I fucking miss it. Damn.

Anyway, I think we can learn a lot from Candy, the woman that this was based on, not that anybody does anything wrong.

But this woman like did not give up.

She pressed the legal system to prosecute the guy who did it and arrest him, and she was victorious in the end. And I just think she's such a bad ass.

And it's not like we needed to learn this because it seems like it's just knowledge at this point. But how fucked the system is and now no one believes victims and I don't know, it shouldn't be so hard to prosecute a fucking rapist, right, And.

Also, I don't know, make the guys roll up their whole full sleeve, tell guys that when they come in for their blood draw they have to wear tank tops. Now because of this guy, Now we have to have everybody in Canada has to have tank tops on to get their blood drawn, so that you can't have a freaking tube of old ass blood hit it in your arm.

Yeah, I guess.

I also learned you could put tubes of blood in your arm, so that's a lesson as well.

Yeah, I could do that.

We also learned.

We also, well I wouldn't say we learned, but it was reiterated that Christopher Maloney has a fucking dump truck of an ass, and.

It does not quit.

When he goes to dunk that child molester's face into the water, over and over, You're getting a look at.

Two nice little juicy peaches right there. It's wild. I wonder how many squats he's doing.

Oh my god, it's just funny when my brother has a butt kind of my brother that reminds me of.

Christopher Maloney in a gross way.

Like, and it's just funny when men have butts, like my husband has no butt, but like some men have like real fucking badonka donks and it's funny.

Yeah, baseball players usually, yeah, yeah, I have those sasses.

I also like.

Learning that Diane Neil had some thoughts about her hairdows Like that was great to know that she also was like I looked fucking insane and they just did whatever they wanted to me. Oh I also, I mean we learned so much from her that, like the writing staff are people that were perfects in the field.

That was really cool to know. I liked that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And we learned that sex Crimes was the name of the actual softball team.

Never forget. That's like too good.

Would love some action shots if anyone played on those teams would love action shots of people sliding into first in their sex crimes baseball shirt or softball shirt.

I liked learning that your takeaway from Stabler dunking a guy was about his ass and not what cops can get away with dunking data.

Look.

Also that's police brutality.

But yeah, also, this is what I learned, not from this episode, but from something I mentioned last week about like that some countries do decriminalization in a way where it's like, selling sex is not illegal, but buying sex is illegal.

Am I saying this right?

Yes, you're saying right, So selling sex is legal, but buying sex is illegal.

It's called the Nordic model. We have found out.

Yeah, and I guess it has not been working well, so it's like good on paper, but it's been used in Canada and Vancouver and stuff, and people wrote to us saying that it is actually awful, like most things are for us.

Yeah.

No, and obviously we always push for full do criminalization. I think we were mentioning that as like, oh, that sounds like better than what we have, but it obviously has problems as well, so not an answer overall for sure.

So I'm glad when people send us information about different things. We can't know everything. Yeah, I don't think you should get mad at people for not knowing everything, but that might be a controversial statement.

Okay, now it is time for what would Sister Peg do, our weekly segment where we give you, guys a organization or some resources to help you get a little bit more context and information about the topics that we talked about in today's episode. Obviously, we dealt with a pretty heinous sexual assault today and so we actually wanted to use today to highlight Mrshca Hargatea's foundation, the Joyful Heart Foundation. Their mission is to a world free of sexual assault,

And next week we will be covering the episode Stranger season ten, episode eleven, a very requested episode and you can watch all episodes like always on Hulu and Peacock. And we cannot wait to see you next week. And you know text us no not text us, please please don't dox Us tweeted us Instagram email you know all that jazz we like hearing from y Thank you bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.

And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson.

And to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar Karen Kogariff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly Right Media. Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot com slash ads.

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