Secrets

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on these are our stories done done? Who do you who? Welcome to that's messed up in sv podcast. I am Lisa and I'm not Ava. And why did you pause for so long? Is it because I said.

Who do you who?

I think we're on a lag Like I think we're lagging because of Hotel Internet.

So we're on the highatt Internet. We are in Cleveland. The wide release is on Halloween. Spooky boo.

Oh my gosh, Happy Halloween. You little you, little dick will babies. I hope everybody had a I hope everybody's wearing a Rollins or Olivia Benson inspired costume or I don't know, maybe you're the Q tip guy from that episode.

I would love some deep cut Halloween costumes.

Let us know, guys, Yeah, tag us in your Halloween costumes if you're doing any SVU stuff. People have come to our live show dressed as people from the show, and it's usually a really big treat. Yes, we get really excited. What I'm not excited about. We get a lot of Amanda Rollins because I go, there's a lag.

I think everyone.

I think we put out a really high quality product and maybe this will be weird for them, but we're women on the go. I don't know we're in a titanic looking hotel. But last time we were on the other side of the hotel and it was such a far walk on the car.

And I'm so glad we're above the lobby. I feel blessed.

Yes, I remember, we're right down the street from the Presidential Suite, and I'd love to know we're down the hall.

I'd love to know what it looks like. I'm hoping to get a peek.

Yeah, I noticed the Presidential Suite sign as well, and oh, I want to know.

I want to know.

But obviously I need to take a moment because we are coming to you live from adjacent hotel rooms, so you do know.

We are on the road.

We're next week we will be kicking off our Salt Lake City and the Midwest tour leg. So on November fourth, we're gonna be at Salt Lake City. On the fifth, we're going to be in Chicago. Guys, We're playing Park West in Chicago. Lisa now Chicago better than I do, but it's a iconic venue.

Please come see us there.

Then we're doing Madison, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Saint Louis all in a row in that week of November, so please come see us. And then Sacramento we're coming to you in mid December, and New York we added a second show, Babies. Our six o'clock show was basically sold out, and then our nine o'clock show has been added, so let's close the night with another full house. Come see us in New York and then Yeah, Philly on the seventeenth, and we haven't announced it on the pod yet, but it's

I saw the January sixth of it all because I'm doing stand up that night too, and I, uh, the Big Fly art says January sixth. Then it does have name recognition. I wonder if it'll prevail like nine to eleven or go with the wind. But yeah, January sixth is fresh in all of our minds. So but I am. I am doing stand up in Salt Lake City, San Diego, Los Angeles, November second. I think that's it. There might be another city. I'm doing the best I can.

Oh, Also, Lisa's doing stand up on January sixth. We're January seventh, so come see us at the Wet Comedy Festival in Seattle. Sorry for all the dates. We are having some travel things today. I just flew in this morning to Cleveland on a red eye, which you know those are always fun. I did have my own row a blessing from above, so I really stretched out and let my entire side go numb for a nice flight.

There's a conference in town. No rooms till till noon.

It's seven thirty in the morning and I've gotten about two hours of sleep on a red eye.

I'm like, no rooms till noon? Okay?

Not then a little love seat, anywhere to sit. There are just four upright chairs in a circle, and I'm sitting next to a man watching videos with his sound on. Again, I do not condone this, and I just I just fall asleep sitting up. Eventually everybody that's sitting in the chairs is gone. It's a quiet time. It's just Kara and the people that work in the lobby. And I'm sitting up, sleeping up right. A woman comes up to me that works at the hotel and taps me on

I've got a.

Carry on bag with a laptop on my lap, Like what do you think I'm doing? I'm too old to be a runaway, so I don't understand what you think is going on.

She's a little runaway. Yeah, hopefully that's a key enough we can keep it in. I like your singing.

And so she goes, oh, are you are you ready for first available room? And I go, yes, I'm sitting upright sleeping like.

A crazy person. Give me a fucking janitor's closet. I don't even care.

So then she comes back and at nine am she has a room for me, and I'm like, great, so it wasn't noon, it was nine and I could go to sleep. But yeah, I just I couldn't imagine what She woke me up so gently, like let me take care of this indigent woman in a that's messed up purple sweatshirt, Like I'm wearing merch from my podcast, Like I don't look like I'm here to make a new home in your lobby.

Oh my god, I saw your purple sweatshirt and on your Instagram, and I got jealous.

I'm like, where is mine?

It's probably hanging somewhere, but I'm like, where the fuck is my purple sweatshirt?

It's so fucking cute. Listen, we have cute merch.

I had a really pleasant lift ride.

This guy.

He really loves zoos and aquariums and listen, so do I. So we really bonded and we talked, you know, animals and.

The zoos they stay in. It was just like fun.

He used to work at an aquarium gift shop and he said the number one toy that would sell out is unicorns. And it's like, what the fuck You're at an aquarium, what are you buying unicorns for? And he goes they were sold out. We couldn't keep the unicorns in stock. And he goes and all the parents would fight with their kids and be like, why are you getting a unicorn? We're at the aquarium, like look at all these fish, and the kids were like fuck that.

Yes see.

Which was it our friend or was it you that didn't know they were real until it?

Kind of me?

It was famously I did not know that narwals were real and are both of our friend child and my child wore the same narwal and the onesie And at one point I was like, well, they're not real, and my.

Husband was like, yes they are. I thought they were, Like, I thought they were magical creatures. I had never heard of a norm Wall. Yeah.

I mean, if it wasn't for the Shed Aquarium in Chicago, I don't know if I would know that information.

But I don't know.

I also, I also feel like, because we record so far in advance and we have to like do a lot of flip flopping, like all the Taylor Swift stuff I want to talk about, it's already outdated, you know what I mean. But they went to the Waverly in for dyea and that is a restaurant that is dear to my heart.

So I like that.

I feel connected. And they went to Nobu, which I'm into. Get a blackmasa odd delicious.

Yeah, here's another celebrity couple I've never really gotten your take on. And maybe you're gonna give me a big I don't care, But uh, where are you on? Kylie and Tshell? Kylie Jenner and Timothy Challamey?

Okay, I hope it's not real, but maybe they have a lot in common. Like it's just I guess they're both fashion young and hot.

I don't know. Is he a.

Stepdaddy, Like I just I know, I can't imagine what is going on. And maybe because he was in Little Women, I think he's smarter than he is. Like to me, he's like this thespian and she's like a vapid idiot. But you know, she is a businesswoman, so that's rude. And I do love the way she parents. All the videos of her and her child are so cute.

He's really patient. Baby Stormy is really cute.

It's just really cute. I don't know if we've seen him or I haven't, but I mean, I don't know. It just seems weird, but good for them.

Honestly.

I saw something on my Instagram recently that was like Timothy Shallaby wants his relationship to be private, and I was like, okay, well, you guys could literally buy an island to go hang out on. But you're out, like you're out in the public. People are seeing you. But it's a wild relationship. I just didn't think any of the Kardashians would be banging Oscar nominees.

I didn't. What are you talking about? World surprises you? What do you mean?

I just feel they've conquered the NBA, they conquered music and what's next?

Yeah, you're writings? Acting was next? Acting was next? So I just didn't see it. I just didn't see it.

No, what I want to know is, let's say these are pr relationships, you know, like, are they still fucking and it's fun and they have a vibe and they're in on it? Are they sitting in silence? Are they even eating dinner when they're seen at someone's house? Like, what are they doing in there? Or do they just feed the the tabloids the stories of who slept where and they're not even going to each other's homes? Like

I'll get some intel.

Yeah, like how real does it seem? And I don't care either way, but I do care. I'm also so behind on Bravo.

It's sick. It's sick. Listen, well let's start.

I'm doing I'm so behind. I'm seeing memes memes of the finale. You guys are writing, going. I can't wait to hear your guys take on the finale. Haven't watched it yet. It's so sad. I mean, by the time this episode comes out, I'll obviously have watched it. I can't make it to Halloween.

But no, but they're probably gonna hear about it on Christmas, like Christmas happened, and you're like, Wow, you're talking about the finale of Rony Equal.

Wow, Cleveland looks beautiful out the window. Wow.

I can't wait to close the shutters and sleep block out the light of Cleveland. Yeah, I eat my little snacks that my mom packs me.

Oh, not to be a.

Downer, but this is our first episode. Yes, the amazing Joanna Merlin passed away.

She played Judge Petrowsky.

I tried to find the email where she passed on our podcast, but I can't find it. But obviously I do remember that she said sounds fun, but not at this time or something like that. So I like the idea that she even knew our podcast existed and thought it's quote unquote sounded fun. So I it's crazy because you watch episodes where she's only in one scene, two scenes.

She's such a scene stealer. She's so good. We all will remember how she would call Cabot Alexandra. That's exactly what I was thinking in my head right now.

Oh my god, cue yeah and I just yeah, so we just we posted it on our Instagram obviously, but we hadn't had a chance to talk about it.

We love her.

She is the most beloved, like she really is, and she is such a staple and we will think about her positivity.

Yeah, there's other judges we've you know, we've got more doc We've got Lois, Lewis Louise, We've got so many judges that we like.

Uh, there's Zosha Mammet's mother.

There's is that the gym teacher one I don't know, she's got the short hair and like very Connecticut sort of way of talking.

There's also like the gray haired guy, and.

Then all the judges, the guy who tends his roses but oh yeah, all the pedophile judges. But also Cory Horowitz but that's not his name, Horowitz, But is he a judge? He becomes a judge, That's what I like.

Oh there's Georgie from Girls, I mean, I mean from Sisters, excuse me, not Girls Sisters. There's so many good judges, but Petrowski is a cut above and we hope she her family is doing well and she's resting in peace.

I don't really God, Casey found the email.

Oh my god, do you want to read it since you've read it since?

Okay, So this is from Joanna Merlin. This is an email she sent to our booker. My apologies. I thought I had responded, but obviously was mistaken. I appreciate your invitation and the show sounds like fun, but I must decline too many reasons to explain, but I cannot participate. Happy Valentine's Day, Best Joanna Merlin. Oh my gosh, Casey, I'm so glad you found that.

I can't believe that he that she wrote Happy Valentine's Day.

That is so sweet, and I'm sure the reasons.

We're just like, She's like, I'm at the end of my life and I really don't need to be doing a weird podcast.

But you know, also, this podcast is extra weird right now because me and you are in identical hotel rooms, and it's like the matrix shifted, Like this can be one of the things where people are like, this is.

How we know we're in a you know, simulation. Wait, Casey, take a screenshot. This is really funny.

We're both just sitting in our hotel rooms, same exact artwork behind us. Yeah, we're just in a it's just for technical reason, it doesn't make sense for us to be in the same room. So we're in adjacent hotel rooms. We can hear each other through the wall, and we're doing our intros on our beds.

I'm also doing the craziest thing, which is unraveling a crinkly candy, which is such a funny.

If that were me, you would be like, what are you doing? All right, let's get this.

Yeah, we're gonna get this show on the road. Guys, We've got a good episode for you. Don't go anywhere, Okay. We are going back to two thousand and one Babies Secrets, season two, episode twelve, And I believe we were prompted.

To do this episode, Liza, because you caught it on TV or something. Right.

Well, I caught like the last you know, ten fifteen minutes of it and I was like, what is this. I've never seen this in my whole fucking life. And then all the listeners wrote were like, it's secrets, It's secrets, And then watching it, I do remember some of the red herrings and the suspects and things are coming together in a way that I know that I had seen it, but yeah, that's what prompted it. And it came Offembuorary

Oh yeah, Groundhog Day two thousand and one.

I also remember watching this episode a bunch of times, but could not remember the ending until I saw it. Like when I was doing this episode, like, I was like, who ends up doing it? Isn't it a couple of her students, Like because there is an episode where Teach where a teacher is killed by her students, And so I was having fun, you know, kind of rediscovering a new ending as well. So here we go. We open on a super entering an apartment to fix the shitter.

I forgot probably stabler. It's like you do work at SVU yees, Sir.

I antety president would help you forget about the toddler you just found dead last week. But he refuses to go to any therapy, so he'll never get any medication. She doesn't have any therapy appointments in her date book, just tutoring appointments, and the last one was Ethan Chance at six o'clock the night before. So Craigan sends Benson is Stable to the high school to find out what's up.

And I bet Stable knows exactly.

Where they were going and knows a shortcut to get there, because he is an encyclopedia of New York City schools at Douglas MacArthur High School. Betson and Stable are walking and talking with the principal, who's like, oh my god, Marnie was so special.

She was a teacher I'd like to clone.

She transformed kids who were so behind into kids that were getting into college. And she tutored her most challenging students for free, and she had seniors write plays about their lives. Like she seems very dangerous minds Michelle Pfeiffer situation, like she's really killing it and connecting with the kids. She never really shared much about her life outside, the principal says, and she's like, we were friends at school, but outside, like we never were grabbing a drink or anything.

I feel like that the principal just.

Like knows what the mom does and where she works to Like, I wonder if they ask my kids principle, if they'd be like, oh, she's a podcaster sex crimes. You can probably find her in her garage right now, Like if you ask the principal, I would love that. I don't think the principal knows who I am. So now they go and talk to Ethan's mom and it is friend of the pod Sayita Erica Akelona aka Natalie.

We did interview her. She is in so many episodes.

Yes, she pops up so much in SVU it is incredible.

Yeah.

She It was just in an episode that we covered at one of our live shows called and just look like and or just look like one. And so we've been getting a lot of extra nardally in our lives lately. So she thought Ethan went to school early, and she's worried. She's like, miss Owens is not going to tolerate him missing school. But then they break the news like, oh, miss Owens has been murdered, and she goes, oh, dear God, no,

When she woke up this morning, he was gone. Doesn't sound great.

She tells them that when he used to cut school, he'd hang out with these losers on Suffolk and Revington. So now we cut to Munch and Finn in the freezing New York City air interviewing an old lady neighbor of Marnie's. She's like, we were neighbors for six years. She came to visit me at rehab when I fell last year. She's such a nice girl, not like that other one down the hall, and calls her a corva,

Uh hey, how loud is it? Said?

K u r v e h is what it said in uh absssed. Yeah, so we can start being like curva please. She noticed that one of Marnie's students went into her apartment around supper time. He looked like a hood and this woman is obviously like Karen like, she seems like she's racist with a side of slut shaming. And she says he was a black kid with a brown jacket. She heard some loud voices while she was eating her dinner, but she couldn't hear much.

She's old.

Her son had to get her special headphones so she could hear my Rosie, and I'm assuming she's talking about the Rosi o' donald talk show, which I did name Rosie after Rosi o' donnell, so that means a lot to me.

I didn't, but can you imagine if I did so.

Regarding boyfriends, the only one she ever saw was Byron, a doctor, and she hasn't seen him in a while. Regarding family, her parents are dead. Her brother Jordan is all she has left and she hasn't seen him for years. Wow, this woman knows a lot about Marnie's life For a neighbor. Cut to the body identification. Jordan, the brother is there and he's like I told my dumb dead sister she had to have a doorman, like I love. Like in hindsight, that's like how he's grieving is to blame her for

Ethan Hawk?

So that Stabler goes, don't play us, He's such a dork. He holds up the picture and they're like, oh, little e he's too good for us. Now they start busting their balls about skipping school, like why aren't you guys in school? And then the kids are like, I got the flu and it's the other ones like it's contagious.

So these kids are funny.

Get into an improv class, yeah, engage them.

Yes, build on their comedic timing, their sense of humor.

I bet Martnie would have done that.

Sadly, she has gone, we're gonna ask you one more time about Ethan, and if we don't like the answer, we play show and tell. And it's like okay, Benson and Stabler with the stop and frisk. I don't love that, Like, I don't want to have to defend you guys. And they're annoyed because talking to the cops doesn't make them look good like on the street if people see them, So when they start to move in for the arrest, they're like, okay, okay, okay. Last night he was complaining

Yeah, and messer sounds sinister in a way little nests in your home.

Or yeah, I guess because empty nester has to do with kids. I just feel like it doesn't involve it's not the same thing. It's just wanting to stay home. At Ethan's apartment, the mom is really desperate to help. She's like, I've called around everywhere to find him. I can't find him. They ask, can we check his room? She's like sure. When they search it, Benson is like, wow, the room is really clean. And then they find a crumpled up piece of paper and it looks like she

Like famously that most teachers were sluts in high school. They were the party animals. If you see a nurse or a teacher that was a slut. Yeah, so yeah, they're gonna be fucking. It's kind of the number one porn fantasy is teacher student. Not that we support that, right, that's not think teachers are out there fucking is.

Yeah.

So at the precinct they're updating Kragan and he's like, get Marnie's PC down to computer crimes and like we'll see what else is on the hard drive. Maybe Ethan feels guilty and we'll show up at the funeral tomorrow, they say so. At Saint James Church, we're at the day of the funeral. Stabler's in the car while Finn is outside undercover. They're looking out for Ethan. Finn looks

And this guy, his photo is like the main that's the Hulu photo. I feel, oh, okay, this man's face so many times, that's when it all clicks. When I saw his face is when it all clicks for me, Like, okay, I've seen this or just the thumbnail over and over again, who knows.

Yeah, yeah, I saw a thumbnail of like a season two episode the other day that was Amorro and Rollins.

I was like, this is a mistake, Huloo.

But we've caught their mistakes before, much like how they misnumber all of the episodes. Okay, so they slap down the naked picture of Marty in front of him, and then Ben goes, when did you two start knocking boots?

And Ethan's like, what the fuck what?

And he feels bad because the last time he saw her he said he called her a whore. And then he's but he's not like talking or giving them informa, and so Finn pulls him aside and goes, here's the deal, dude, you were the last to see her. You've got this picture of her. You ram this all looks really bad for you. Give us something or you're fucked, and he goes, I didn't like have that picture. Little Camp gave me the picture and they're like, who's little Camp? And it's

To get out.

He denies doing anything wrong, and he says he was just trying to help her. He went back the next morning before school to like apologize, and he saw cops all over her place, and he asked somebody in the crowd what happened, and they said, oh, a woman was murdered on the third floor, a teacher. And he's really sad because he's like, miss Owens never judged me. She said I could be something, and I called her a whore and that's the last words I said to her.

And he even acts like a student called you a whore? It'd be like, okay, what that's Yeah, I'm shocked.

Yeah, Benson asks if he's if she's ever touched it. It's like, Benson, I don't know, I don't know. It seems like a weird question. After all of like we've already established that. He's like, wait, what nothing happened and he goes, she never laid a hand on me. So coming out of that interview, Finn believes Ethan and they're like, Okay, what's the story with Marcus Cole Stabler looks at the file and goes, well, well, well if it isn't flu boy. So it's one of the guys from the corner who

I didn't make it. I'm just a consumer.

And he didn't like her because she wasn't going to graduate him and Stabler leans in and like whispers the close talker that he is, and he goes, news flash, you gotta show up to class to graduate.

Like he's so crazy, how he tries his intimidation tactics and he's like, yeah, but I wouldn't kill a bitch over fucking like not graduating, Like that's not my thing.

He says, I'll take a blood test, I'll take any test you want. So on the other side of the glass, Kraigan's like, well that was too easy. It's probably not this guy. Munch says that Marnie didn't have any prose. We're back to the prozac. I don't know where Munch is like, Marnie didn't have any prozac in her system according to the talk screen.

What's going on?

They're like, what about the brother, Let's check him out, pay ow a respectful visit. Meanwhile, at Computer Crimes, we've got our old Paladirdro Lovejoy as the actress and she was recently the doctor who on Boorn Psychopath. The kid fooled her into letting her out of the psych hospital. She's like, he's reformed. I don't know what to tell you, not psycho anymore. Turns out he was. She says, the history on the computer looks like a bad porno flick, and she's like, okay, so she ran the ad on

A different guy. He says.

Their mom died of cancer when he was a baby, and the dad was either at work or drunk, and he never touched Marnie but apparently would often tell her how nice her tits were. So creepy dad, And he goes, I was just a kid, What was I supposed to do? So now we're at a shrink's office. I think it's it's Marnie shrink, and he's explaining the concept of covert incest. I've never heard of this before, so I was happy to learn about this term.

Always happy to learn about a new kind of incest.

Yes, okay, so when I looked it up, it's actually emotional incest or covert incests.

So there's two names for it.

And it happens when a caregiver or parent relies on child for emotional needs that an adult relationship would usually provide. That's interesting to call it that, Like, I feel like I've seen that before, Like people that treat their kids like like a partner in.

Every way, watch a thing together in vain, Like I feel like we just watched something together about this where it's like, if like your husband sucks, you put all of that into your son and it's like you're dating your son.

It's I have to say, it's kind of a creepy vibe I get on like boy mom TikTok, where it's like like it'll be a video of a woman being like that feeling you get when you know that someday your son's gonna marry another girl and leave you, and it's like, yikes, I've like never had that thought, like you know what I mean, or like that feel when you know that no girl's ever going to be enough for your son, and it's like, what are you talking about? Like I don't know, I get a weird But I'm

I get a lot of joy out of mother in law BuzzFeed lists and reddish mother in law'sby acting crazy. They will show up in a wedding dress at your wedding. They will just have shoulder pads. Yeah, they might even wear a funeral outfit. These mother in laws that want to fuck their sons, they're out there being wild, Yeah, but still more harmle it.

I think the covert I don't know whatever.

Well, basically this shrink get more into it. Yeah, the shrink gets more into it and it's more creepy. He's like, it's like when your dad watches you take a bath, probably into a later age, like tells dirty jokes, mentions his sex life to you. And then once you hit puberty, he says, he starts admiring your body, buys you lingerie, takes you as a date to a business dinner.

Like creepy shit like that. So very very.

Donald and Ivanka, I'll be honest, like very Donald and Ivanka covert incests.

Let's get that going.

So when a person who you know lives with this kind of covert incest for years grows up, it's like the only way she can relate to men is through sex, because that's like how their daughter has the father has conditioned them. So the prozac is for the depression and which is very comment in any kind of addiction. And Munch is like, well that doesn't really sound like Teacher of the Year. And the guy's like, you don't get it.

I feel like before Republican was a full slur that it is today.

And I don't know if I believe it, Like do you think he's kidding or do you think he is?

This is so tough because obviously, like there's no fucking way you know he voted for Like I see Finn voting for Clinton, Mee and Gore. I just don't see fit. But I also you know, he's a contrarian. He likes, he likes to be what I'm trying to find an example.

I do find it hard to imagine Finn clicking it for George W.

Bush.

But it's hard, I because but I see him being like, my money's mine, I don't want to pay time, you gotta do it. But he works in this industry, so he like knows the importance of social services and like community. So I'm just hoping it's a joke, but I could see it, you know, I could see him liking canvas owens.

Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately.

Yeah, he's definitely listening to her podcasts.

So anyway, they find.

Out that there's one hundred because remember he in that one episode where he was like, why are we helping immigrants when we have people here that need help?

Like fuck that? Like I could see him wanting to build a wall.

Yeah, yeah, and he's a little bit like munch, why did you pose nude? Like, you know, or like he's a little bit like, yeah, you get what you deserve for posing naked. And it's like I never thought Finn was so he loves to go to strip clubs, you know, and think nudity. But you know what, everybody grows. This is his first season. Everybody learns and grows. Maybe they were trying to go somewhere with Finn that he also wore suits at this time, cuts to you know, leather

I guess they were.

Saying, so a place She's called a lot is called Pleasure Partners, and they own a swingers club in Soho and I hope it's not in competition with the swing set from the episode Bombshell. Do they have a nightly buffet who knows? Munch is like, oh, are you an expert? And Craigan goes cold as ice and goes, I got that from the computer files, like he does. Craigan's like,

Tells Olivia, don't be nervous. We were all beginners.

Once Stable goes we're still beginners and flashes his badge. It's all of his jokes are falling for me this episode.

He is again only season two.

We haven't fully Neil Behar's just getting his footing and getting getting stabler better lines.

So they ask.

About Marnie and they're like, oh, Marnie, she is not welcome here anymore, but they did not know that she was murdered. They break the news to them and they're like, well, she didn't follow the rules. She had a threesome with two married guys and she started an affair with one of them. And it turns out that one of the sex club's rules. This is so funny to me, Like this place that's like no rules, free love. But the one of the rules is that you have to preserve

That that'sha fucked up rule, The save rules for safety.

What is this like Christian rule?

Like yeah, that's so marriage sacred and you stay together for the kids no matter what.

Like that. It's the craziest sex club rule of all. How about a rule of no means no, like what the.

F Yeah, So they expelled yeah, no phones, no pictures, confidentiality. Well, we don't know, we haven't seen their full constitution, but one of the laws is you got to stay with your partner. So they expelled Marnie and her guy when his wife is the one that told them about the affair. Who is the guy that she was having the affair

In Again, we're not killing it with these.

But now they've got Byron in interrogation and he says, she came on to me and I was into it until she dumped me. And as they're feeding him the version of the story they think happen like, you went over to her house, you wanted it, she wouldn't give it to you. Then this this guy's lawyer breezes in to shut shit down, and they're like, can your client

Wife out of it.

They go, if you stop lying, and he's like, okay, great, fine, I'll stop lying.

Leave my wife out of it.

They met in a chat room, not at a place where a volunteer program for inner city kids, which is a wild stretch of a lie, and they hooked up at flings. She came on to him, it started an affair and they all went well until it got out of control. He goes, we were having sex every day, sometimes two to three times a day, at clubs, at hotels, in my office until we burned out and broke up. It was like we just used each other up and threw each other away. Martie called him that night at

Again. Why are you calling yourself, Marnie. You can always argue that it's not you.

So he says, they had sex till eight thirty and when he left she was alive, and he goes, you don't understand. It's like being possessed. It's like an uncontrollable, overwhelming urge, and I have to satisfy it with sex, and then everything's fine until the next wave hits. He tells them that she usually took guys to the Majestic on Seventh Avenue, and if she needed a quick fix, she'd go to the club, and they're like, well, she was banned from flings, and she goes, no, there's another place.

I went with her there once.

It was like walking into hell and actually named because it is called Dante's Inferno.

He didn't know she liked it so rough. Now we cut to the most wild.

Police raid of a dark ass warehouse with red lighting and the silhouettes of naked bodies. Everyone's rushing to put clothes on. There's it feels like there's seventy five people in a room. I guess all fucking each other. I don't really know. They tell them that the TV crews are outside and we're looking for people who know Marnie, and then goes, though, I suspect you trade you. People trade fluids more than names. Anyone who recognizes her raised

She looked hot.

I emailed her like. He immediately is like, I think I saw a picture.

Of that girl in the paper. And then he's like, all right, we fucked. He says.

She invited him to meet her at the Majestic. They hooked up, and then the next night she goes meet me at Dante's. He thought it was a restaurant and asked what was on the menu, and she ordered for both of us sex with me and four other guys. He says, the place is an amusement park and she was my favorite ride. And then Benson goes or one of the sorry, one of them goes a rough ride and he goes, yeah, she liked it that way, and so did I.

On Sunday night.

He says he was at his in laws trying to reconnect with his wife and two kids because they're separated

So then these two.

Start bickering and Daddy Craigan comes in to break it up and says, last time I checked, this was Special Victims Unit and not the sex police, which is hilarious because that's what everyone else calls them. They're always like, oh here comes the sex police, you know, or the panty Police live pipes in that Philip Montrose was arrested for criminal trespassing in Connecticut a couple months ago, and that the Stamford police, where I have lived before, booked this guy for stalking again.

I guess they were told.

That Philip Montrose left Dante's because she wasn't there the death, but he did go to her memorial service. Stabler holds up a picture and they're like, was it to pay his respects or stalk her to the grave. So now the cops are talking to Montrose again and he's like, so what I went to the service?

Had We had a great time together.

I'm going to miss her, And he says the Connecticut thing was a misunderstanding, and Stabler points out most stalkers only stop when they've found another target, and he's like, she wasn't only my favorite ride. She fucked every guy in that place. I'm sure a lot of people loved like hooking up with her. And they go, well, we checked on your alibi and your wife hasn't seen you or your child support in three weeks. Why would you

This is a wild stretch in the plot.

At the high school, they're showing a picture to a security guard at the school and he goes, yeah, I've booted that guy from here twice. The other day he claimed he needed to use the restroom. Who pops into a high school to use the restroom? Like the guy goes, yeah, go to the restaurant across the street, weirdo. And then he came back thirty minutes later and he saw him trying to try the gym door. So they're all discussing it and they're like, Marnie might still be alive if

Cabot's like, Lol, your guy looks like a freak. It proves something, It proves something.

Yeah, And Cabot's like, this is actually just gonna make my case stronger. And the lawyer like, Marti makes Casanova look cellibate this and they're like, this doesn't look good for him. The scrap book other victims of stalking, witnesses that put him at her apartment the morning after her death. You know, so we cut the cord. It's a grand jury hearing and Ethan is testifying about his run in

Been raped and murdered.

A teacher, and I think actually says raped and strangled, because that's like an extra the cause of death is like an extra detail. Cabot points out that Philip Montrose revealed the detail of the crime that only the police or the killer himself would know. And then a man walks in while Cabot is talking to the grand jury and whispers into her ear, and then.

She excuses herself.

Outside Montrose is with his lawyer, who says Montross wants to make a statement to the grand jury. And this guy who's playing his lawyer is Jeff McCarthy, who's playing attorney Math defends attorney Matthews and he looks familiar, but I looked him up and it's nothing I've seen.

We take it to Petrovski.

Petrovski's chambers are like the red table talk of the SVU universe, like, bring it to the red table. So we go to Petrovsky's chambers and Cabot's like, notice was not giving an in a timely manner that he wants to testify. He declined testifying yesterday, and the lawyer's like, well, he changed his mind, and he argues that his client has the right to speak before the jury has voted.

What about your fix?

And then they kind of focused in on him and he looks guilty as hell and silent. Cabot goes to talk to Craigan and she says that don't just put Marney's sex life on trial, and Craigan goes, yeah, law isn't always about justice, and she goes, who let you in on our dirty little secret? And Craigan goes all the Marnies who came before. So Cabot's like, I think he's gonna beat this fuck and Craigan's like, I don't know, girl, I think you're killing it. And i'd tell you're ass

She goes, I'll take that, say lair.

Benson look bummed, and they walk away, and then Cabot walks away and then that's dick wolf baby.

What enough of the ending? I don't love the ending.

I know I want to see the guy like get hauled off to jail, truly, yeah.

I do, but god, it's like, let's deserve to live too. Yeah, I don't understand. It's like, cause you fuck you can't live like you're dead. It makes I just I don't get it.

Call me new fashioned, but yeah, well this country is built on puritanical you know, spirits, so that's that's part of it. But like she also wasn't I mean, like, yes, let's deserve to live, but she also had an addiction, you know, like she had a problem.

So it's like I do like that.

This show in season two in two thousand and one is like trying to bring up sex addiction as like, you know, a thing that people shouldn't be shamed for.

It's pretty progressive for them. I've never seen that on another show.

Well, Lisa, I don't know anything about the crimes that this is based on, So excited for your portion of the program.

We'll be right back. Okay.

So, sadly this is based on two dead teachers, both teaching in the Bronx.

So that's pretty wild.

Yeah, it's really close to the episode, I would say, and the crimes are really close to each other, even if they span you know, decades of time. So the first case is based on a woman named Roseanne Quinn, and she was a twenty eight year old teacher, and she taught at a school for deaf children, and the principal of the school, Francis Wilkins, he said that Roseanne was very warm, outgoing person, and the children loved her and she always made everything so interesting for them and so alive.

She grew up in Jersey.

Both her parents worked at Bell laboratories, you know, kind of normal life, and she was very dedicated to her work and would often bring breakfast to her students because she was like a lot of them have to travel so far to be here, they wake up too early, they don't get breakfast, and so she was just like really caring, would bring kids breakfast.

And a lot of the articles are from.

The seventies because this is when it happened, and it is such old timey language. Like the Times said she had no regular boyfriend, but she was the type of girl who would have a guy and if he brought her home, Like that's such a language from a different time. Yeah, it's basically like if a guy walked her home, she's bringing him in the fuck.

But in this weird way there is.

There was a huge article that came out after this because there was a string of crimes, and like New York was dangerous for single women, and it was like there was a lot of discussions of should single women live alone in the city, what neighborhood should they live in?

You're asking for it. There was just a lot of.

Commotion over her being single and like going to bars. Another old timey thing that was written in the paper said this, this set in motion an intense police effort involving more than thirty detectives to find a clue to the killer somewhere amid the numerous yet fragmented activity of an attractive single woman living in the interracial world of the West Side.

It's it's reading.

Seventies, Like I don't know, it's just not how we speaker write or like articles.

Don't sound like that anymore.

So just but this is interesting, Like they kind of touch on this in mad Men when Peggy and I don't think you watch mad Men, but Peggy moves in like to the Upper West Side by herself in like the late sixties, early seventies, and it's like, what Peggy like, you know.

So sadly she was found on New Year's Day, January nineteen seventy three in her upper west side apartment and the body was found after the school, Saint Joseph's School for the Deaf in the Bronx, became alarmed because she didn't come back to work after Christmas recess, so she missed two days of like January classes, and so it took a bit of time because like the murder happened,

And it's like, either way, who gives a shit.

It's her apartment, and who cares if it's small or big or how small it is. But it was on seventy second Street, and so she was at two hundred and fifty third West seventy second Street, and that was right around the corner from a brownstone where in nineteen seventy one, Patrese Leary, a twenty two year old private school teacher, was found bludgeoned to death in her apartment, Oh my god. Yeah, and also in Roseanne's apartment building. Six months earlier of Quinn's murder, a drug dealer who

Yeah, this is like a beautiful neighborhood today, Like this would be like really coveted place to live.

But I'm sure Columbia College was still there, right, Like Columbia is an old school.

Now, but Columbia is up at like one hundred and twenty fifth. Yeah, So but like this is I've seen movies about this area in the seventies.

It was not good.

So there was a delay in the crime being reported because the local precinct failed to notify the Central Police Commissions of the murder. So the first article that came out was January fifth. So the details of the crime were that she was a knife to death and then stabbed fourteen times, and on January fifth it was reported that she was sexually assaulted and raped, But on January sixth, The Times then reported that the chief medical Examiner, John F. Fury,

What right, that's fucking crazy. But do you think it's one of those things where the person like couldn't look at what they'd done, so they like covered it up or something.

I don't know. I don't know.

It's SVU pop psychology. And there were as bruises on her face. The apartment was described as but blood spattered by the DA Frank S. Hogan at a news conference, and at first the police thought it stemmed from an argument, but they really had no leads, so they talked to about twenty five of Quinn's friends and then close to one hundred people in the area. Ten detectives went out into the neighborhood and just talk to everybody. She lived near a notorious drug park called Needle Park.

Yes, and I know where this is because one of the movies that I'm talking about was called panic in Needle Park and Jared made me watch it. It's some old seventies movie and it's literally it's barely even a park now. It's like a subway station, right and if you ever get off the two three train at seventy second Street, that's Needle Park right there. Now it's like flowers and like I've eaten Lavne cookies sitting there. It's like a lovely little place. But like that's a needle park.

Yeah, and I mean, yes, seventy second train stop.

I think it's like the Trader Joe's is there, exactly fair exactly exactly. There's a north Face store. Like it's so nice, like nice meaning not needle Park.

Yeah.

One of the original suspects was a man who just the year before pled guilty to assaulting Quinn and spent several months in jail for that crime. But then the police received a tip and the man who contacted them was a friend of the suspect, John Wayne Wilson. John Wayne not a great name for killers, okay. So, and this person who called said that Wilson and Quinn were at a singles bar called w M. Tweeds and that was right across the street from her apartment, and she

Like, she was with these two guys, and so he.

Recognized himself in one of the sketches, and so he contacted the cops.

He is smart well, and not just the cops.

He first contacted a lawyer and then the lawyer contacted the cops. So he is very smart and he listens to what we say. And so, yeah, it was her usual bar. She would come in for a glass of wine and she talked to two men around eleven PM. And that's when the witness went home and he left and the other two stayed together.

And so then they left together and they went to Quinn's apartment.

And what is so wild is while the cops were sitting with the material witness talking about him in his apartment, the killer fucking called him. So they got his location in information because he ended up calling exactly when the cops were there. And so they caught John Wayne Wilson, who was an Indiana drifter. They arrested him in Indianapolis less than a week later, and that was reported on

He did not resist.

He also had five arrests in southern Florida since nineteen seventy nine for disorderly conduct, loitering, and illegal entry in larceny. He was also arrested on larceny charges in Kansas City, Missouri. He was serving a one year sentence in Miami for illegal entry in larceny when he escaped from prison on July sixth, and then he really stayed out.

For a while. Obviously.

The lawyer for Wilson set up an insanity defense for the case. He was held for five months under murder charges and then he hung himself in his jail cell at twenty three years old, and the jail said he wasn't on suicide watch because that floor was overcrowded.

So well, I want to say one thing, which is that, wow, they cops got him so quickly, like one week is like really or I mean, you know, ten days from the time she was killed, but like then she wasn't found or whatever. But then also motive just crazy, Like what I mean, It's like she took him home, they were just going to hook up, and then he just was like, I'm gonna stab you to death.

No one knows, I mean, no one knows, like the you know, the cops did mention that it seemed like it stepped out of an argument, but that's probably just because of like the physical violence of it and the fourteen stabbings.

That's not like a chill stick.

Right right, brus is on the face like did he did she say something that it made him wild? Was he on drugs? Was he drinking? Like I have no idea when.

They tried to go insanity defense, so I guess it's possible there just wasn't a motive at all.

Yeah, but he's a career criminal and escaped from prison and why was no one looking for him?

He was he is? That was that's a long escape.

Yeah, that's the seventh he was escaped for seven months and.

Maybe because it's a cross state.

Yeah, it is really sad, and that there's no information and that Yeah, it it's grucive. It's scary, and we say this a lot on this podcast. But it's like one wrong person. Yeah, and you're and that's it, like you know, it is her regular bar hanging out with dude.

It's like so fucking scary and sad.

So this the next case is about Jonathan Levin, and he's another Bronx teacher, like I said, who was murdered in you know, his Upper West Side apartment. Jesus right, And he was the son of the chairman of Time Warner, Gerald M.

Levin and Kara.

Jonathan Levin actually went to Trinity College.

What yes, a fellow Bantam.

Yeah, so in nineteen eighty eight he graduated with an English and psychology degree.

I wonder if I ever had any of the same teachers, Like, I wonder if he got a teacher really young that then was like old when I had them.

Yeah, that'd be that'd be crazy. Wow, because I was an English major too. Wow. Yeah.

So he did English and psych and then Jonathan chose to be an English teacher.

At William Howard Taft High School.

So the kids liked him and he was praised with having an unusual ability to raise their self esteem. Corey Arthur was a student in Levin's class in his English class at the Taft High School during nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four school year, and he really took him under his wing. So one time in nineteen ninety three he actually wrote his teacher a thank you note, calling him his true and only friend in the world.

Thank you.

So May thirtieth, nineteen ninety seven, Corey Arthur went to Jonathan's apartment to rob him. And this is the student that wrote these letters that Jonathan took such interest in and was really putting a lot of time and effort into this person. And his wife said that he lived for these students, and he responded to Arthur's phone call that night. Because of his selfless nature, he cared about his students. So he got a voicemail from Corey Arthur

It's important.

So Arthur and his accomplice mister Hart attacked Levin and tied him up with duct tape, then tortured him with a knife, including three cuts across his throat, and then shot him in the back of the fucking head by his student. And they wanted his bank code and withdrew eight hundred dollars at five point fifteen pm.

And so he died at age thirty one years old.

And this guy's fucking rich, like he comes from Time Warner chairman money. If you wanted money, he would have given you money. Like, yeah, you had to murder him. You could have threatened him and legit. They think that Levin was alive in between, so they think that there was like stabbing, the tying up, the torturing. Then they went to use the bank card. Then they came back and shot him in the head and then stabbed him

This is the defense. They're like, absolutely, he would not do it.

They argue that the cuts on Arthur had occurred when he tried to stop the accomplice from stabbing him, and that this accomplice did everything. Prosecutors, however, said that Arthur and Levin had grown apart by May thirtieth, nineteen ninety seven, that the former student took advantage of him to gain entrance into his apartment, and the prosecution pushed that he was actually the leader of the two. His fingerprints were found on the roll of duct tape and his DNA

The jury acquitted him for first.

Degree murder, but they did get second degree.

I don't know why.

I know his family was really upset why it wasn't first degree murder, but yeah, obvious they couldn't prove it. The difference is like, so murder one is automatic like life, and then murder two is twenty five to life, so it's still a hefty sentence. The jury deliberated for eleven hours over two days, but they rejected the testimony of

So basically, the.

Jury ruled that prosecutors proved that Arthur and the twenty six year old code defendant, I'm not sure to say his first name, it's mo ou n t o u n so mount muntoon montun mountain t Heart, I'm gonna call him Hart, that was the code defendant. So basically, the jury ruled that the prosecutors proved that Arthur an Heart committed a crime that resulted in Levin's death, but

I'm gonna assume they were blunts and the.

So that happened the night like the cops arrested him. He was so fucked up that they made him sign something that he was not lucid enough to that this is the jury. And there was no evidence for Heart like there was for Arthur. There was no hair, no fingerprints, no DNA trace like, there was nothing that linked Heart.

To the case, to the scene.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so the Heart update that I have about him is from the New York Daily News, not the Times. So like, I don't know, I don't know. Do we respect the Daily News? I think I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know.

So basically, he's adamant about his innocence, but even after that not guilty verdict, he's stuck to a life of crime.

So he had been.

Arrested numerous numerous times and charges like criminals sale of a controlled substance, narcotics possession, possession of a defaced machine gun in nineteen ninety nine, and then he also drove on a suspended license in twenty thirteen and twenty fifteen. Then he was part of a giant year long investigation Joint Investigation very SVU the NYPD in the Brooklyn DA's office basically revealed he was selling guns in Brooklyn.

His phone was.

Taped after they got a tip about him, and two undercovers spend months posing as clients who wanted to buy guns. Wow yeah, And so they bought forty four weapons from him, and he was ordered to be held without bail on dozens of these charges. According to Inmate Lookup, he is still in custody for the criminal sale from firearms, which is a first class B felony and he got fifteen years and his earliest release date's going to be September fifth,

Zation was established.

After the murder and it created a new media center and athletic field at Taftai School and then a nearby block was even renamed Jonathan Levin Way. The school, however, closed in two thousand and eight and then transformed into a bunch of small specialized schools to meet modern career needs, and that media school did eventually close in twenty sixteen.

So that wow, yeah.

Like so similar, so sad, so like I don't know if any murder, I don't know.

It's like mindless, like pointless. I don't know. It's sad. Yeah, fucked. Oh my god.

Teachers have it hard enough without getting murdered by their students or drifters from Indiana. All right, yeah really, bubber, well, thank you for doing all that research. Let's head into our post mortem since we don't have a guest today. Well, that was a wild episode. Uh post mortem? What are our thoughts? I guess yeah. I mean it is weird how sex addiction has not found its way into the public like empathy the way that other addictions have.

No because people think about it.

Because I do think that celebrity men who cheat use it as a lie. I do, yes, so sue me. Yeah, I'm victim blaming, but I don't believe it. But because of that, we think of them and we don't think of real sex edition, which is like I did eat a candy.

I ate the candy with the crinkles.

I'm so sorry it's stuck to my teeth.

I thought it'd be smooth. It's stuck to my teeth.

But so we think about that, but we don't think about the person who's just like jerking off fifteen times a day till everything's wraw. You know. Yeah, we're like going out and searching for gangbangs and bass so.

But we don't, we don't really think about that.

Yeah, that's it's not a kink shame if you want a gang bang in a basement. But if you like, if it's affecting your life and you like absolutely have to have the gang bang in the basement or the nagging voice in your head won't leave you alone, that might be a different a different thing.

But I think everybody knows that I am not against a gang bang basement. But people should read the book Choke. That's where I learned a lot. It's I don't I think I always say his name wrong, but I don't care. Chuck Polanik, who wrote Fight Club. His book Choke, Oh is about this guy who's a sex addict and he goes to meetings and I feel like I learned.

I took it as truth.

And then the movie is with Sam Rockwell and it's it's not like fight club work change of stuff. It is like seen by scene pretty much the book.

Oh wow wait the movie is also called Choke.

Yeah yeah, and that was my foray and to sex it. It's all television shows. And then Joan Cusack dates a guy, the floutest, the fucking floutest dude that we had on our podcast. Anton Krasnikov, Oh yeah.

Yeah, why Gowan, Zach McGowan. Yes, so he has He plays a character that is a.

Sex addict too, and it gets awakened by Joan Cusack and he's just like the reason I said the gangbang is like he had like a big thing, a loube and he put down a tarp and he's like everyone's we gotta do it and she's like, I don't wanna. It was like.

He just became crazed in a way.

And so those are my fictional God.

We gotta get Joan Cusack on the fucking podcast once again. A plea to anyone that knows her personally, please let us know. Let's move on to our what would mister peg do for the week. That's our segment where we direct you to an organization, a blog post, an article, a book, something to give you more information about what we talked about today. I thought we could, you know, in an effort to you know, highlight sex addiction, point

And guess what, I have a movie reference to discuss porn addiction. The movie Don John with Joseph Gordon Levitt. Oh, it was really good. It's Julianne Moore, Scarlett Johansson, Tony Danza, Brie Larsen. I'm forgetting hotels. Joseph Gordon Levitt is like so hot in that movie and he's it's dating Scarlet. No Hanson, who's so hot. But she's disgusted that he watches porn. Oh, she doesn't want to watch porn. She has other problems too.

Wait.

Your Tony Danza reference just met like reminded me that I've only watched like the first three episodes of End just like that, so I also have that to catch up on the worst, the worst TV show.

I have to finish watching.

It's just disgusting because it's so good, Like Sex and the City is just so good. I mean, everyone knows. Listen and guess what. We'll talk about it again next week, always and forever. Watch the episode Tortured, Season four, episode sixteen. If you know what's good for you, and if you want to like you know, you know, rate star all that stuff on the internet, you can, but we don't, you know, no pressure, so much pressure?

Okay, yeah, send us.

You could send us an email to it that's messed up podcast at Gmail.

Are you checking the email?

Yeah?

Oh my god.

The other day, I just checked the email and I responded to a ton of them. Wow, because you know what, I was in New York. I was in New York, and I responded to people. If you're if you know, you know you're one of the people that I just responded to you after nine months because I just hadn't gotten to.

Check the email.

And but there were other people that had written recently, so they got more prompt responses. And I just was on the subway in New York just banging out responses.

I got to be away from my kids. That's the thing. Well, all right, guys, you next week. Thank you so much for listening.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

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