Scourge w/ Liza Lapira

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Mess Up, an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

We talk SVU, we talk crimes, we have guests, and we're thrilled to be here week after week with you. How are you, Kara, I heard you have something to report on from the neighborhood neighborhood watch.

Well, I'm good, I'm good. Let me.

I'll just tell everybody. So my family, my entire family, is recovering from COVID. We by the time this episode comes out, we will be free and clear what we back in the world.

And and I don't know if you know how dressed I was. Kara and I were supposed to meet at noon, and you probably know if you're a constant listener, if you're new. Kara sends a Google cattle Nder invite before we're even off the phone, talking about us meeting, so you know time's going by. There's no answer, no answer. I grab my keys, and I'm running out the door. I'm imagining your whole family's stabbed to death on the floor. And then I got a report that you were sleeping, but.

Yeah, sorry, I had fallen asleep and I had forgotten that start.

No, But then Lauren was like, I think she has COVID, and I was like, no, that makes more sense. But to me, I'm like, she's murdered.

Yeah, so my whole family's been recovering from very mild cases of COVID thankfully. Like everybody's okay, no big deal. But I was recently walking with the kids in the neighborhood just to get some fresh air. I was staying away from people. Both my daughter and I were masked or my son can't be masked, but he's also like in a car seat, like blocked from everyone. So like I didn't think I was being a menace to society, but I was in my neighborhood, like on side streets,

An athlete.

Then suddenly my daughter's like, oh, my finger, like she banged it on the air, you know, and was like my finger, my finger, And so I'm talking to her, and this guy must have heard my voice because he comes running back and he goes Kara and I'm like searching his face, like do I know you?

And he's like, I'm listening.

To your podcast right now, tap class, and I was like yeah, but in my mind I was it was very flattering that this guy was like, I'm a fan, big fan of the podcast. I wanted to talk to him, but I was also like I have.

COVID, like don't come near me.

But I didn't want to like be like stop, I'm flammable, you know, So I just was very awkward, and in case he's listening, I just wanted to say it was nice to meet you and you were really nice, and I'm sorry if I seemed weird.

It was just I didn't want.

You to be like, oh is this rosy and like come into our bubble of germs.

I know.

I was like, carry you better have been nice. But also I was like, how did he reckonize?

I was in sunglasses and a full y kN ninety five and I was like, how does this mean recodite? But I guess you know my voice talking to Rosie telling her to cut the shit.

I recently saw some a friend at a party and I took off my sunglasses to say hello, and he was like, you think I wouldn't have recognized you with the sunglasses, But I don't know.

I didn't think you would. But you have your taste.

You're still eating, you're steaking case ideas, I'm still making.

Case Adia's baby. Yeah, Like we're fine.

It's just like it's honestly, it's very difficult with the two kids, but it's less difficult than I thought it would be. Like we're I'm on day like nine of being in the house with them right now, and it's we're okay. Like it's not ideal, but it's like I am letting my daughter watch an incredible amount of television, but.

Because it's because you're a bad mother.

Yeah, right, So I don't know what else to do, you know, Like what I mean truly, like we play, we go on a little walk, we try to go in the backyard, but it's like it's a full fucking day to fill with children.

So I'm sure some people.

Listening know my pain, because I'm sure some of you have had COVID with children.

But yeah, I feel like that's part of the gig.

If you're a kid and you're sick, you get to watch TV and yeah, like any popsicles or drink gatorade or whatever.

But she feels fine, so she's kind of like, what's going on? Like why can't I go to school? Why can't I see my friends? And why are you just letting me watch TV all day? So hopefully it's not going to be too bad of a transition when she has to go back to school, which will be today. Actually today will be her first day back in school the day this episode comes.

Out, because we're in a time machine that was se Oh, and your brother is visiting.

Yes, my brother is visiting and he's staying at a hotel and we're going to be seeing him because we're at the tail end of it, so I'll be seeing him a little bit, and I'm excited.

Yeah, he's a real jet setter. He comes out here a lot.

And I would like to mention I loved I didn't watch the Super Bowl. I went out to dinner. I'm kind of a cool girl like that, but I loved the halftime show more than I ever could envision.

Like I got chills.

I literally was like wow, watching these men and people I'm Mary J. But like watching Dre and Snoop together friends for decades in.

La, Like it was such an LA show.

That was what was really cool about it, Like the Rams came out to Nipsey Hustle, Like there was just like very la everything about it.

And I loved the halftime show.

Famously, I met fifty cent when I was a page at NBC and I took him. I was escorting him, and all of our name tags said like your first name and the first letter of your last name, so like mine said Kara kay, yours would have said, li's a tea. He I'm in the elevator with fifty cent and he's like, karakay. You know that's a palindrome. And I'm like, wow, fifty I never thought of that. And then he started like he was like making a whole thing about it. He was like Kara kay and like

I like the memes of him hanging upside down. I like waiting until the men finish. I uh, the set, you know. I Also, it's usually pop stars, so it's like bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, fire Fire, get a Lion. Yeah, And it was nice that it was kind of like chill. It was just about the hits and friendship.

And I loved how it was staged.

Yeah.

Yes. And I loved that eminem you know, did it and took a name.

Yeah No, that was awesome.

I was that's very like all that music is like my college tie, like my high school and college tie. So it's like very part like I was like loving, loving it. It was one of the best I've seen in.

A long time. I liked Shakira and j Loo.

But besides that, it's like the Beyonce one from years ago when the power went out. I guess, like I don't know, like they've been really disappointing to me in the past few years, so this.

Was like a really good one.

I think overall people are the sentiment seems to be overall very positive.

Yeah, unless you're like a child or a racist.

You had a good time, I know. And I kept thinking, I'm not gonna look at Twitter. I can't handle if it gets racist on Twitter.

But and I've been listening to playlists because that genre and time of music. I'm just I'm excited. I'm excited for what my car rides are going to be sounding like for the next Yeah too.

Well that plus Yellowjackets, that's like a good time period.

Yeah, So I've been listening to I got five on it. I did see the Jordan Peele trailer. It does look exciting.

Yeah, Jared and I watched it this morning and he was like, that looks fucking awesome, like he's so excited.

Well, because we saw us together, I believe. And then when I saw get Out, I was with a giant group too.

I was with Alison Levey and she was very scared.

Oh my god.

Yeah, she does not do horror movies.

No.

I get Out was an experience because I saw it in LA when his when Jordan Peele's name came up, people clapped. And then when Lil Rel at the end comes out, that was an experience in a movie theater. I'll never forget just people losing their minds with joy. Yeah, I don't know, it's yeah, cinematic, baby, I mean I have to see Jackass. Am.

I gonna wait for you. Am I going alone? I'll go with you. I'm like, I'm literally at day ten, like tomorrow, I'll.

Go with you. Yeah, I want to see Jackass. But another super Bowl thing. I don't know the details or the names, but a man who won the Super Bowl his hospital was in the wife. His hospital was in the wife, his wife I was drunk, okay, his wife was in the hospital giving birth.

Oh my god. Really, So this.

Guy won the super Bowl and then it's him running in the tunnels to like leave to go to the birth.

That's that's like so crazy. It's like my husband went out.

Yeah, Like my husband went out of town the weekend before I was supposed to give birth. And my doctor was like, it's fine, I bet your baby's not going to come early.

And it did it. You know, like those kind of things.

You think like won't happen, and like that's that timing is truly wild.

Like that's ooh that poor lady.

Yeah, but that's like such a fun night. Yeah, but if you're her.

You're like, Oh, my body's being ripped apart, and I could be at the super Bowl celebrating with my husband.

He does not even hear.

Would you rather super Bowl? Would you rather sit really really close or be in a box?

Ooh, I think box because I don't care about the game. Yeah, Like I want you know, I want the good food and like I want yeah, like I I also want to be able to like talk and not have anyone get mad at me. Oh yeah, right, Like I mean, I think football is so slow You've got to be able to talk during it. It's not like it's It's not like it's tennis. I would never talk at a tennis match, you know what I mean, like where it's like quiet, but like football takes forever.

I don't know.

Yeah. Also, what do you think about the Olympics with Shikari and then the Russian.

Do you mean the difference like how the Russian's allowed to play yeah skate?

Yeah, fucked up? But like also is that like who said Shakari.

Wasn't allowed to the Olympics for the Olympic committee, Yeah, they banned her. They were like, myye, bitch, and then this girl was allowed and apparently she medals. What sucks is that if she medals, apparently there's not even allowed to be a medal ceremony, So like, if you medal, you're even taking away that ceremony from two other athletes that work their whole lives for this.

Yeah for what?

Like what what kind of hole does Russia have on the Olympics?

And she's fifteen, she'll be at another Olympics. She'll probably be another two, Like.

I know for sure. I just I like a Winter Olympics, like I never thought it makes me actually want to maybe no, no, actually skate, I was gonna say snowboard. But I love that we've seen little ginger boy his whole life.

Yeah, yeah, and he's dating me up Dobrev.

Now isn't that cute? It is cute. I mean, yeah, I don't know.

Her to care about her, but they seem really in love, That's all I'm saying. And I and I judge that by my close relationship with them via Instagram.

Wait, I am sorry I will be name dropping in this introduction as well. But one time I was in an elevator and I turned to a guy and I went, hey, you look like that Olympian and he goes, I am and I went congrats, dude, and it was Apollo on No speed Skater, So that was thrilling for me.

I was like when I went up to that guy Michael Battalucho or whatever, and was like, you look like that guy from the practice, and he's like, I am that guy.

I am.

Oh.

And we didn't even mention Mary J. Blige because we were so into the California of it all. But I told him I was like, I couldn't stop staring at her thighs, and he goes, yeah, the world was looking at her thighs, like You're not alone.

The mine of her outfit was to draw your eyes to the thighs.

Yeah, draw your eyes to the thighs.

That's a rule of Cultureless culture says, we need to make our own rules of culture. What do we do? What do we say? The prize are in the eyes? What did you say? Your eyes are drawn to the thighs. Your eyes are drawn to the thighs. I like that. I like that so much. I said something todayana FaceTime

That's so true. Choose fandom, choose fandom.

I was like, if I wasn't obsessed with her, I would be jealous, So yeah, might as well give her all my money.

I don't know, ye, yeah, no other way, no other way.

We have huge news.

All right, guys. It's the moment that many of you have been waiting.

For if you live on only one part of the country. But we are very excited to announce.

Lisa always tries to do a drum roll, but it's always snapping you. Oh, whenever you try to do a drum roll at snapping. Guys, We're going on tour.

We're so going. Yeah, we're so excited.

If you go to That's messed Up Live dot com, that will take you to a page with all the ticket links. We're going to be doing shows in Los Angeles, Tempe, Arizona.

Seattle, Portland, San.

Diego, and Denver and Irvine, Southern California. So we're gonna be a little bit all over the West, the Pacific Northwest. We're excited and this is just you know, our first tour hopefully and hopefully we'll be east soon and so come and buy tickets and come see us, and we're gonna have an awesome show for you guys live.

Yeah, we're excited.

If you're we don't know what we're doing yet, but we'll figure it out by then. No, it's really thrilling. And if you have I mean, don't be annoying about it, but if you have some suggestions or hardcore requests of what you'd like to see from us, as long as it's not taking off our clothes, send us a message, send us a message, because I'm yeah, but I'm thrilled.

We got to get some outfits going.

Even if you have people that don't listen to the pod, maybe try to bring them, Like, we really want to sell tickets so that we can come to more cities. Basically, so support us and come see us live. And we want to meet you guys, cause Lisa's gotten to meet a lot of you out on.

Her stand up stuff.

I'm not touring us touring stand up as hardcore as she is, so I'm excited to meet a lot of you guys.

Yeah, we're we're to go and I do the meet and greets after we will talk to you guys.

So we have nothing to you know, we'll be there.

We'll take some.

Shots we have to do in Tempe, and we're gonna be.

But yeah, you'll see all the artwork and all the stuff, and it's like, it's fucking cool. We're doing it. We're a hip podcast that's out on the road. Baby. Yeah.

So there's more details on our socials and that's messed up live dot com.

All right, should we start today's episode? It's a good one. Yeah, all right.

Hello, Okay, we've already said hello, my bad. Okay, all right, so we're gonna get started. I don't know.

Scourge, scorgeg scourge, What does that mean? Scourge?

I think technically means to burn, like it's like to burn something.

But okay, that makes sense, that makes sense.

But something that's a scourge is like something that's like a blight, like a horrible thing, you know.

I don't know. Well, you shouldn't have used the word blight. That definitely put us two steps back. I was I was on track though, I was season two, so that's exciting.

Episode twenty one.

It is the season finale, so you know it's gonna be jam packed.

Also, I read this little tedbit online that this is the final episode before nine to eleven because like this this aired in May, so this is the last episode where you see the twin Towers in the credits.

Just a little sidbit.

That is a very good TIDDAYESX in the City had to change a lot of things, definitely.

Wait, did I ever tell you that?

Like literally a week before nine to eleven, home depot had this sticky wallpaper and my friends and I put up a full skyline in our college living room of New York City, and then a week later was nine to eleven, So.

You take it down?

We didn't take it down the whole year.

We were like our twin towers are still standing, and people would come into our room and be like whoa.

Like everybody was like, this is a lot.

Did anyone draw a plane? And like pretend? No. No, we didn't do anything to fresh. It was too fresh. I have done something disrespectful before. When our friends, the Joyces, were leaving Chicago, we did a big going away party and I don't remember what, but there was a nine to eleven themed poster. But I ca're there were people fall. It wasn't good We'll ask, We'll ask. It was not in good taste, and it was in marker. I think they threw that one out. I don't think they kept

She's like, oh, let's play is fucking shitty.

I'm done.

I'm done with these plays.

And he goes, it was nominated for a Tony and she goes, yeah, that's why I didn't win. Now I know why, and love that. You could tell they've maybe been married for a while. So he goes, what about your shitty cooking shows and she says, well, they don't cost seventy five dollars a ticket, So that's why I was like, Oh, they're not rich, but maybe a Columbia professor, you know, like in the upper middle class. Yeah, we don't even. We've never seen these people. Again, I don't

So what is the fire? What's going on?

Stabler's in a baseball hat, Benson's talking to the trench coat duo, and they got to work with a sketch artist. So then Benson and Stabler are working and saying the fire was a sex worker who got burned.

So did she pick up the wrong john? What's going on?

And then we get a fire department chief that is so old he should have retired maybe forty five years ago. Like, I don't even know if he can handle the coat. It looks so heavy on him. There's no way this man is still working. But he's the chief. So he says, the bad guy put garbage on her and set that on fire, so that sucks. He said, if the fire house wasn't right around the corner, that she would have like fully burnt to death, but because they were so close,

They make that joke all the time. They're always like, first he got toasted, then he got roasted. Like they're always making little jokes when.

It's the fire, when it's the guy, you know, when it's a sex worker covered in garbage.

No, in another episode, there was a guy running around member covered burning and they were like, first he got to and his alcohol level was high, and they were like toasted and then roasted like the love. They love a butcher, they love a barbecue pun. Yeah, yeah, you're right, right.

You're right. So now we're back from the credits. The credits happen after a butcher and barbecue, just a nice killer bit before we get into it. So we're back. We're talking to the street vendor that the man bounced into. He was preaching some religious gibberish and no more information. The sex worker, though, is a regular. Her name is Cassie and she is known well in the community. Munch and Fins show up, and you know, they all gossip

So he hit him with a Lady liberty. Is that not a metaphor for New York City?

I don't know what else, because he reached into his coat, so he got scared.

So that's where the limping's coming from. Getting beaten by this statue, and the detectives take the statue and the you know, the magazine for evidence, and the guy's like, that's thirty dollars and it's like, bro, write it off. You know what I mean, Write it off, Write it off, honey. So we're back in the squad room. We're Stabler Benson Kragan. We find more information about Cassie. She's twenty three. And then the purp was white with a dark coat and

Oh yeah, I like the little sweet ones.

You're a peanut girl. I love the smell. But I've never jumped and did it.

Would probably say I did it five times in eleven years, Like I wouldn't do it all the time, but I would do it once in a while and be like, you know what, I got three bucks burning a hole in my pocket, I'll buy like ten peanuts.

I'm trying to think I actually didn't do the street vendors as much as I pictured in my fantasy.

Yeah.

I mean I became a vegetarian four years into living in New York, so I really didn't do hot dogs very much.

Well, I'm a Chicago girl. The hot dogs in New York are trash.

Come for me.

I don't give a shit. It's not pure beef. They're skinny. They suck, got it. I want a fat beef dog.

Okay, mm hm, put that on a shirt. I want a fat beef dog.

Merch. No, I would get schwarma meat meat. Yeah, I see myself getting meats. I would get an egg and cheese or a coffee on the way to something. Sometimes, m most so many bodega but I've never the peanuts one time. One time, I will all right, where are we? I always get distracted with New York goodness and snacks always a distraction for me. So Benson and Stabler go check up on the autopsy, and Munch and Finn are

Is in two thousand and one. That's a lot of coffee and donuts.

Yeah. I brought my parents donuts quickly today and my dad was disappointed. I didn't bring a whole dozen. And it's like, you did just have heart surgery, relaxed. Yeah, I brought you four donuts. That's enough. Okay, that's enough. My mom goes he wanted a box. I go, well, you got a bag. You got a bag. So, uh, you know, they give the scoop. They give the scoop on the guy that they saw Cassie go away with

Now, who's going to take care of her little girl?

So, which is just sad, and they like, never we never see the little girl. We never find the answer to that. They just like throw in an extra bit of sadness. They're like, oh, she had a kid.

Moving on.

Well, yeah, because as a society, I feel like we treat a lot of people that work on the street as like, so dispensable, disposable, not mattering, but you should matter just for being a person.

But it's nice to speak like No.

Now people will miss her and she had value in this planet. And yeah, why am I fighting with someone that didn't even say anything to me? Okay, we're now at Melinda's house aka the Morgue. So forty two stab wounds? Are you fucking kidding me? Are you kidding me? Slits? One blood type double a edge serrated on each side, knife six inches long. This happened in a frenzy, a real feever dream, not planned or methodical in any way. And what we leave Melinda's and we're back at the precinct.

Have you ever noticed this coat area in the precinct before?

No?

I don't think I have.

Yeah, if not a coat hook, because but like a pole of hooks like you would have at a school play we got out for the parents or something. But no, I never noticed. I never have noticed them grabbing coats before, so that was just a nice little treat for those who did notice. And he did great object work, you know, playing with the hangars. So they're taking They're gonna go figure out this DNA stuff. Talk to the guy. The journey shows up. I don't think this is the guy? Okay?

Am I going to talk about him less?

No?

So a man in a hard hack goes, oh, hey, Norm, you know the cops are here. Norm not happy. It's hot. Norm's hot them. He starts, and they teased that Finn was in a car, so we obviously know that Finn will now trap him. They will arrest him. He screams, I didn't do it, and why are you running? This is classic classic take a drink, But he is confused.

About the murder charge.

He goes, whatever, I picks up a horse, so what And it's like it's against your parole, big boy, Like, you can't be doing that shit. But he's denying doing any of the slicing and dicing. He said he paid her and left no murder, and then uh oh, another victim was murdered last night, so they have to go back to the streets.

The roommate came home and found her.

The cop that they meet on the scene of the crime, he said he spent fourteen years on the job and this is the first body that made him puke. The perp did a real number on her. So there's a lot of blood. It doesn't look I don't like the way it looks dead. Twelve hours he slits the throat so they can't scream again. You know, we learned that that's a signature. I guess Benson's like, what do you

Her name is Teresa Folsom.

She's twenty four and she's a publicist in the publishing world for books, and he's bringing coffee to the roommate and she is crying hard. I feel like this is the first time in the history of SVU that a person looks accurately upset at what's happening. She's not you know, putting stickers on a caon, she's not rearranging shelves, she's not organizing receipts.

Like yeah, especially young people.

I feel like when it's young people, like roommates in their twenties, it's usually like, who's gonna pay the other half of my rent? I can't afford this place alone, or like like really insensitive shit.

I didn't even know her check her stuff.

She was kind of Yeah, this girl's really sad and actually having a human reaction.

No, this scene really took me by storm.

I like focused on it because I was like, I think this might be the first time a witness cries or looks upset or holds her head or like likes her friend who's dead and disappeared. So yeah, she's not like, actually I have class to get to like I Yes. So I'm really impressed with the acting and the choices made here. Standout performance, crying, and she's she's like apologizing for crying, and she's fighting with her hair and face

And they're like, girl, no offense.

We're just figuring stuff out, like we were on the side of the sex workers.

But they are only are they only asking if she's a sex worker because of how she's dressed, because she was dressed to go clubbing, right. I think it's because the first one was because the first one was a sex worker too, okay. Yeah, and maybe the outfit tipped it off, but I think it was just like a Jack the ripper pattern, m okay.

So they're like trying to put pieces together.

She said no, Actually, Teresa had a boyfriend in Boston and she was not promiscuous. It would not pick up a guy, and she is squeaky clean. They confirm not even a traffic ticket, but maybe she doesn't have a license. But whatever, Okay, Bence, that's always like such a.

What if there was Like whoa she has like forty traffic tickets?

She deserved to get murdered. This girl is a good point. Does we know how to feed the meter?

Oof?

Such a good point. Benson, though, still thinks it's plausible for this guy in custody to have done two murders that they have and I don't buy it, Like I just don't see it. But two murders and enough time to catch the Staten Island ferry on the way home, and Munch comes in with the science to be like no, no, no, no. Blood found at the recent murder scene does not match this guy we have in custody. So Stabler's still like let's book him on a parole violation and let's get back to work.

Or it's like let the guy go. He just had sex, Like let's let him go, like.

He paid for it, he was safe.

Yeah, Lee, you're right, I agree with you.

But like Finn is like, maybe he's done this before in other places? Is this a foreshadow or a throwaway away line? We'll see, But they're gonna see if there's an mo somewhere else that's happening. Bead WoT comes in and starts giving a role up, like I feel like we're in a play or a book report. You know, every the audience, there's all the whole squad is paying it to. So George's George Kwang's analysis is this guy comes out at night, he attacks prostitutes or women who

Who.

So that was a nice rundown from George and Cabot comes in with papers and Okay, now I don't know why I hate her so much, but she comes in with the newspaper because I do love her and I love her short haircut here and I'm obsessed. But they are annoying. The DA's annoy me in this show, and maybe because they always.

Run in and they're just like, well, the media has the story, now what are you guys even fucking doing? And it's like they're literally it's body after body. They just found the second body, like you know, they're.

Working on it.

And if this was any other police department or show, I would go fuck the police.

But you know, our squad's working.

Hard, like our our babies do, not like lazy it up stablers and has seen his children in weeks.

Okay, like they're fucking working.

But you know, the newspapers are calling him the night ripper and the community is scared. So now they're still trying to find the cab from up top that like he bumped into and there was like a fight situation.

Maybe he wasn't a cab. They're looking for this cab.

I wasn't sure where this cab fit in, but there's a cab and there's evidence and this lead's gonna go. They found it. They found it. So the cab driver they look at the the paper and this is like the eighteen hundreds that there's not even a computer in sight, like everyone's logging everything in with paper, and his reported wages don't match the mileage that he wrote in on so they have to go talk to him.

They visit the driver.

It's the apartment of siko Obeg and I said that correctly, and they're talking to him on May second, So shout out to my friend Alex Crawley and my niece.

May second is their birthday.

So they ask for information and he's lying and saying he doesn't know, he doesn't know, but he's got to admit it. And basically he lets his cousin drive to make extra money to send back home.

And he picked up the killer.

But they were breaking the rules so they couldn't like say or do anything about it. But his cousin saw the bloody clothes and face and that the man ducked when the cops strove by, so he is in his right not right frame of mind. But if you're hiding from the cops, you know what you're doing is wrong, So I.

Think that's a clue.

And the cousin says, he was like very scared of this man Daniel, like he was scared, medium high, wild eyes, bushy beard. So same description that we've been getting. So he went downtown and he paid with a bloody twenty and didn't wait for change, and they're like give us the money. He goes, I already spent it. Who's accepting bloody twenty dollar bills? I am not sure? Would you take a bloody twenty? No, I wouldn't, but I guess maybe he washed it off. You can like wash dollar bills.

Like what are we gonna find?

But they do the luminol thing with the blue light and there is blood, but fuck Jack strikes again, so that's a bummer. So they have to run and they end up at this like pinball machine place game stooled. It's a fun bar, fun bar. A man is bleeding on a stretcher, so calm. I just like don't understand. Usually they're like being wheeled away and they could barely talk. This guy's bleeding from his gut fully and just upright having like very long conversations with everyone.

Details.

Yeah, he is not phased by being stabbed in the fucking stomach, So he's chatting it up. He's uh so what he says is he's washing his hands in the bathroom and this is gonna get bad. So a kid is at the urinal and this crazy guy comes in running screaming about machines controlling people, slits.

The boy's throat.

Oh my god, so just like that, like he just came in and slit this boy with no thought, Like that's scary. So this guy is a fucking hero. Tried to grab the knife, attacked this guy. This guy stabbed him in the stomach. The dad came in and ran straight towards the kid like didn't see what was happening because he was so focused on his child being slit

So daddy's son next slits.

Craigan says, Huang is on the way and he can do better profiling on the scene, and there's so much blood.

It is not good. Yeah, it's a really and then.

This is really sad and this kind of sticks with me always. But like the mom of the murdered son and husband is like Kolmato's like truly like is in a trance, very high levels of acting, like tears are wells in the eyes but not dropping. It's just like a pretty incredible but she is sad, not in the fright right frame of mind. She's she keeps talking about, well, I got a taken, we got a pack, We're going back to Oregon. It's like, you're not going to Oregon, honey,

Yeah, she's in like a fugue state or something. She just seems like she's like yeah, we got to finish the stuff that we like. It's really it is really good acting. I'm very sad for her.

Yeah, they want her to snap into it, but she collapses. She collapses into Stabler, cries and Stabler goes, hey, go with this cup, so he gets rid of her.

He's not in the mood for that, right, He's like, you'll get you a sandwich or whatever you need. Yeah, like, I hope it's a good one.

Kathy calls, of course, and Stabler says, I just like to hear her, you know your voice. So that was sweet. Munches is with Melinda blah blah blah. Transfer evidence. We get a sixty forty cottonwool blend found in all the places, so he's been wearing the same thing when he's killed all four victims. So clues. You know, Melinda's rich with clues. Craigan runs to a bunch of the detectives and says, wait, wait, wait, wait,

It's like, I don't think the NYU students are a part of the mob.

You know, I love Washington Square Park.

No, me too.

But you're also going to see more than one person ranting about religion loudly in Washington Square Park. You gotta check the you gotta check the one the sketch, you know, like you can't just.

Yeah, no, you can actually pick one of your favorite pigeon people. There's multipless, multiple pigeon people hang in a lot of a lot of drums, a lot of plastic bucket drums, a lot of fountains, a lot of people filming Man on the streets. It's a really a lot of dominoes, chess, skateboards.

Ugh, it's I was a planted man on the street in Washington Square Park once, of course, like for like a gum thing like commercial with this other comedian and I had to pretend like I was just a person he was walking up too.

Yeah, I mean Washington Square Park because it's like pretty but in the middle of stuff, but there's not trains nearby, so it is like serene.

But I do like it there. It feels very it's just very iconic New York.

Yeah. You know, I was listening to Alana Glazer on a podcast and that's where she.

Met her husband.

Oh really yeah, Like he was walking by and in her head she was like, who is that hottie? And then she didn't really go talk to him for whatever reason, but they made eye contact and then he walked back around and they talked set up a day and you know, ano they're married with a child.

So with a little baby.

She's so cute. So shout out to meeting love in the park. So we're back from Washington Square Park reminiscing, and we're back to the murder do you guys, remember, So they're gonna arrest all the people for assaults.

So that's good. But much understands.

He goes, people are scared, and when people are scared, they do strange things. So now we're back at the priestcingcs. Everyone's tired. It's nighttime. It's four am, Stabler says, and he's letting people go to sleep, but not at home but in the cribs. So you know, Finn goes, you don't have to ask me twice a man after my own heart. So he's gonna get a couple hours because that's my schedule right now. I'm like sleeping. Well, I slept from like four to seven and then from ten

Wow, yeah, I didn't know.

I mean, I've been following her European adventures very closely. I guess she didn't post about that. That's terrifying.

No, we just talked about it, and I don't even know how it came up. But I think people just talk to me about murder and rape now and yeah, any sort of assaults that go on or creeps that they find. But then they also think we're an encyclopedia. They're like, you know about this case, and it's like not unless no, get away from it. I know stuff. Benson, though, of course, doesn't want to sleep. She's a martyr to the cause, she's too pissed to sleep, so she she

I don't really like to have people read things out loud to me. I'm like, can you just show it to me, like show me the paper or email it to me? Like, I don't want to be read to Oh I thought that, No, you would be reading it out loud. I don't like to be read out loud too, So I'm sorry if I've done that to you.

No, oh, because I don't care, but because I'm just remembering her mot like you like to I bet you'd be like, oh, he was found here. Okay.

Well well no, A quick little detail is fine. Reading a sentence or two is fine. When someone's like, okay, here's two paragraphs on it, I.

Don't like that.

I'm like, can you just send it over? I really don't want to be like, it's not storytime for me right now. No, and I have to look while you're at least reading it or something.

Yeah. But then so he cracks his knuckles and he realizes that he spends more time with her than his own family. But then he says no offense and it's like, what's the offense. Yeah, it's just a fact, like I I spend a lot of time with you.

No offense Like that makes.

No Yeah, and no offense implies I hate that I spend a lot of time with you.

Yeah.

So Benson says, yeah, we both need a vacation. And then she finds a tip that's good. The owner of a deli guy like a deli person. He a bodega boy. He says that he got a check with bloody fingerprints on it. So they go to the deli. It's in the safe. Hell fucking yes. The name on the check is Paula Varney. They go to the apartment, cute apartment, lots of plants, books, frames, magnets, my kind of my kind of vibe. There's a fox cookie jar and a basket that caught my eye.

Like, this woman's crafty. She's good.

You notice so many things that never even enter into my eyeballs.

Job.

It's her job, you know.

I know, But I just I don't look as hard when I'm not recapping. I will say that, you know, but you also just are a real detail oriented for.

Decor that in a way that I'm not.

I'm also a cookie jar enthusiast. I do own two jars, and in Chicago on Lincoln Ab there used to be a cookie jar store that I would frequent I've gifted cookie jar I do.

Like, Okay, I didn't know that.

It's a fun wedding gift, like if you don't want to do a registry and you want to be cooler and more fun, like they they make cookie I have a Bart Simpson one and a Dalmatian from one hundred and one Dalmatians, so it's like you can get I got my sister the Flintstones for one of their wedding anniversaries and it's like the two couples.

It's Wilma and fred To holding each other.

And yeah, that's cute. Yeah, no, that is a cute wedding gift idea.

I just I like that as a gift. But thank you. I do notice while things. I did notice what woman the you know, what color the woman was wearing. I'm not going to say anything, not a word.

So wait, can I just point out too that this woman, Janet Varney, is played by Karen Allen, who is like one of my favorite actresses from like the eighties and nineties, like I love, love, love her. She plays Bill Murie's like love interest in Scrooged. Like she's in so many things.

I love her. So she's in Scrooged and Scourged, Scourge and Scrooged.

Yeah.

Wait, I did not recognize her at all, so I'm glad.

Oh yeah, she's in a movie. She's in a movie about the Challenger explosion. I think, like she's in a lot of stuff. Like if you look up her IMDb, she's great.

See that's your strength.

If you see a weir earth thing and you go, I looked that name up and it's actually a politician that lived there. So I noticed the decor and you notice the things that it's like, wait, what is that medical condition?

And then yeah, references I guess I'm more.

Yeah, yeah, you'll go look it up. My favorite is you did send me a photo of your son and underneath you wrote peka question mark because he was eating a car. Yeah, so I really liked that. She says she gave the check to her husband, So I think this is gonna be the the big clue. And she does seem worried it's something happened to him. She says he doesn't live here, and but she has two daughters eating breakfast.

They're really cute.

She does the classics, scurry them off so they get changed so they won't be late for school, and.

She's about to get real.

She saw him day before yesterday, and she helps support him. But he started having problems about three years ago. He began losing it. He lost his job. She had to go back to teaching, and they didn't get divorced so he could stay on her insurance. They show her the sketch and it's him and it's urgent, so.

She tells him where he is.

The priest gave him a small room in the church to live in, and he's a janitor at the church. So he's going to be at the church and she asks has he done something? As he hurts someone. She seems really nervous and they have to go. The judge signed the war like so that while Benson and Sailor are walking up the stairs, they say that they have a signed warrant and Munch and Finn are on their way to search the room with that warrant. They catch

I didn't know the where Gyem's at churches, didn't know.

And his beard is trimmed, his hands are wrapped up from the knife wounds, I bet, and the all the cutting up he's been doing. When he hears that it's the police, he goes into a religious prayers and shakes. He's scared, cries. He goes, I served God, these people are unclean. I help the child. Oh no, he has a knife. He takes the knife out, so the detectives take their gun out, and it's a really Western style tense moving around seam trying to keep them calm, but

And I love her casualness.

We got to get.

Petrofsky in the pod. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no putting this off.

We gotta get petron hashtag Petrofsky on the pod.

We're doing it.

And she goes, you know, and I ask the questions here not you, and he goes, you can't judge me if you're not God. And he goes wild. He knocks his lawyer to the ground. And this is a guy from manifest and he's in future episodes as like the FBI child molestation expert, so he.

Is a working actor. I do like him.

And he has bandages throughout this whole episode that make me burst into laughter, which is so great because it's such a you know, intense episode, and I love just having this guy with oversized bandages for the rest of the rest of the show. Just an adult with a bandage on a face is humiliating, Like I would never I don't want that. I'd rather have an open wound on my face than a big ass bandage.

Maybe not who am I? What am I saying? Yeah?

Maybe if it was a Gucci band aid. Okay, So he goes wild. So he knocks down like the lawyer. All these bailiffs, all these guys are holding him back, and he just keeps screaming, you can't judge me, you can't judge me, screaming. They're holding Cabot helps the other lawyer. Benson's holding back the wife. She's crying. He's sick, he's sick. He can't help it. I mean, this is this so much so he is obviously being carried away in a

The guy who plays the the guy who plays the the killer.

Yeah, Daniel.

Yeah, he actually played like a big character on The Waltons. He's like a lifelong child actor.

Yeah.

This guy's name is Richard Thomas. Oh, I know him because he's a big part on The Americans.

Do you remember him from The Americans? Oh my god. Finally he's the head of the FBI.

Yeah, well he's the head of Yeah, he's the head of terrorism, yeah, the CIA.

Yeah. So now, after all this SKA couple, we're on the court steps and the wife runs after cabin. She's like, can I talk to you? She like, please don't kill him, Please don't kill him, Please don't kill him, and Cabot and like, you know, youally, these the lawyers annoy me a little bit. No, she goes, he's murdered for people, so that's what's going to happen. And the wife brings up a good point, you know, Karen and I are

And there's just an argument, spontaneous, no impulse control, and she goes, I don't buy that.

He it was a sex worker.

He took her to the alley, he got rid of evidence, and he plans shit, so like, you can't say he didn't know what he was doing. When he's ducking from police, like it's not gonna happen. George Twang is here and he says the you know, he's with the killer, and the killer's in a hospital gown laying his head hurts, there's chats. There's no memory. He has no memory of what happened in court. He didn't even know he was in court. He goes, I was in court like such,

Why are you chilling?

Like she kicked him out, but like in that moment, I would make more precautions than just like releasing him to the world. Yeah, if he's willing to kill your children, he'll probably be willing to do other things. Right, So Benson goes, please trust me, and thank god it does. So basically, the medical history stops three years ago when the issues started. But like, I don't get why the

I wonder if there was like not a way to commit him or something. I don't know.

I don't know, but like you could be held responsible because I'm thinking of street Wise, where may Whitman's lie led to the murder, And it's like her not reporting led to all these murders and it's not her fault. I hate blaming women, but I'm disappointed. Like if you saw him about to stab your daughters, I don't know, yah, labs are back. Like if you woke up and Jared was just in the doorway with a knife next to

You would just text their pleasa texting you.

You won't believe what just happened. But anyways, let's go get breakfast for this. So labs are back. Drum roll, that's a clap hold on advanced syphilis. Who saw that coming? Well I did. I've seen this a few times, but oh my god, this episode.

I've always in my mind thought, oh my god, syphilis so easily curable, but if you ignore it, you will turn into a fucking religious zealot serial killer. I've alway, this episode has stuck with me so hard that untreated syphilis like truly rots your brain out.

Well, yeah, because I like that there's more modern diseases to worry about, and we're like, just because of this, we're like terrified of syphilis on the street.

Yeah, where a gone, I'm syphilis.

Isn't it sad that one one shot of penicillin. I mean, it's like crazy.

Yeah. I don't know much about syphilis except that Ibsen play ghosts, but that's just a brag. So brain is Swiss cheese in quotes. It ate through the moral center of his brain. It's long gone, and we gotta tell his wife. But the damage is done forever and he will never recover. So it's already a death sentence. There's no reason to put this man to death. So Benton So So Benton's son. If I start calling Benson Benton, I'm gonna I'm gonna slit my fucking throat from ear

And when Benson wants to take down a corporate entity, she doesn't.

She doesn't in a few days, honestly, and a few yeahs though, So it's a jam papped few days. It's only May eighth, and we're at the office of Malcolm Hunt, a CEO of Atlantic Life Insurance Company. It's a giant office and he what is this? And he's smarmy as fuck. He doesn't look like classic CEO to me, but the more he talks, he does. But he's an interesting casting choice and really interesting.

I liked him, I really like.

He goes, I don't take all orders from you, and he won't even put down his pen. He thinks it's like this, like when you're a CEO of an evil conglomerate like this, I'm sure you do think that you're impenetrable. Is that? Yeah?

Untouchable?

Yeah, untouchable. So Benson goes reckless endangerment. He goes for what and she goes failing to notify the Health Department for communicable disease which caused someone to murder.

So that's what happens. He goes, how dare you?

And then he stands up and thinks he's still in charge, and they're like, he's like arresting me, says who and I love when they already have a warrant. Ready, they go the judge, here's a warrant, bitch on who's authority? I mean, I love the way he's speaking to them on who's authority. Ugh, he's like little Joffrey, all grown up. But they cut his ass and we're off, and they

So I don't know.

It's the law, and you didn't follow the law, so you should have reported it. He says that they reject thousands a year, and they're a business and they answer to stockholders. We can't contact every we turned down. That would mean we'd have to hire more staff, which means premiums would go up and fewer people can afford life insurance. And Cabot says a dollar fifty shot of penicillin could

And you can tell on mister Hunt's face he knows when he's been had because he's such a big gun, and he knows what he gets people.

He like you could see in the eyes. Suddenly it all changes, like, oh shit, now I'm not the captain anymore. And so what do you want, missus Cabot? What do you want? Miss Cabot, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? She answers very simply, I want your company to report all of communicable diseases. And when family of the murder victims suit, you will settle.

New giant beige bandage once.

And he is not competent, so, you know, remanded to custody of mental health and he'll be in a secure place forever because his brain will never get better. And he's taken away, and then they show the mom of the murdered son and father and she still has those wet eyes and wispy bangs and stablers of course, affected by that. They do believe in justice. They stare at each other. She walks away without saying a word, and the detectives leave and they're so tired. And it's a

And an episode that I've seen truly at least a dozen times.

Always sticks with me.

Well, can't wait to see what's up? Yeah, is it?

You know?

Because in my you know, they mentioned Jack the Ripper, but I know about it in theory. But maybe there's other things, So that's not it.

All right, We're gonna go to our little commercials and then we'll be back and I'll tell you what we're doing. All right, welcome back, Let's get into this crime. So, yes, they did reference Jack the Ripper a few times, who was a serial killer in the late eighteen hundreds in like a very you know, Rundown area of London, and he would typically attack sex workers and he did like sort of disembowel people. I don't think this is like

I thought the.

Religious motivation of this killer is what is what jibs with Herbert mullerin more so, he seemed like a closer link to me. So basically, Herbert Mullen brutally slaughtered thirteen people, including children and a Catholic priest in northern California in the early seventies.

You'd think, being such a man of God, he wouldn't stop at thirteen, the devil's number.

I know, interesting, I never even you know, you've got the number. You've got the eye for the numbers, numbers and cookie jars. I'm ready, yeah, but okay, So let's start at the beginning of Mullen's life. He had a pretty regular upbringing. Like he brought up. He was brought up Catholic and was voted most likely to succeed in high school. You don't hear that a lot. You don't hear that a lot. Like everybody liked him in high school.

He was well liked.

And so what happened was in his later teens and early twenties he began to suffer from schizophrenia and his mental issues were exacerbated by drug use like marijuana and LSD. And he did have legalized acid tattooed on his stomach, so you know, And he was in and out of mental institutions from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy two. So when he was like in his like late teens, early twenties, so when he turned twenty five on April eighteenth,

He's also not in his right mind, like he doesn't know this right, so he's making.

This all up right, So he's like he's like yeah, He's.

Like, we're gonna eat.

You're like, well, the Vietnam War did take a few days, so I don't really know this theory.

Chick to give people the dates.

I just wanted to give people the context because I did look it up. I was like, well, when did the war end? So he thought that he needed to be sacrificing people to stave off these earthquakes and that there was an earthquake on the horizon, and he needed to offer people as a blood sacrifice to nature. He also later claimed that his father had encouraged him to kill through telepathy, so his father never physically.

Told him, He just my and told him so.

Mullin said, if I didn't kill, it would bring shame to the family by showing cowardice.

It was kill or get out. That was what was going through his mind. Not a bad point if I'm being honest, JK.

So okay, I'm just gonna take you quickly through like his first victims. So his first victim is fifty five year old Lawrence Whitey White who was he killed in October of nineteen seventy two. Mullin put up the hood of his car and acted like he needed help, and then when Whitey went to go help him with his car in exchange for a ride, he just smashed him

Kill me so that others will be saved. End quote.

So you know he's not thinking rationally. Then his second victim is about a week and a half later. So all of this guy's killings took place in like a few months, which was pretty quick. Like you know, some serial killers span you know, years. His were all pretty quick and condensed. It wasn't a forty eight hour murder spree leg in the show, but still pretty condensed I think for reality. So a female hitchhiker is the next victim. Her name is Mary Margaret Gilfoyle, she's twenty four, and

And I'm like imagining her face, like just driving chatting and then looking down and just being stabbed, Like, yeah, I just can't imagine that moment.

It's horrible.

Yeah, but I mean so much, so much violence was happening towards women in this area of like Santa Cruz, like northern California at this time. So and then so I think it's about a week later when he goes to a church to he says, quote, to give me strength to never attempt to kill again. But he hears a priest in a confessional and ends up assaulting and stabbing the priest to death in the confessional booth. And this is so horrible. Obviously, I don't want any priest

It's just like very tragic.

A witness did see Mullin running away from the scene, but his description of like, oh, a slight man with brown hair, like it just didn't really help, which reminded me of this episode. It was like, he's very nondescript, this man. It's like, yeah, beard, wild eyes, like that's half of New York, you know, like you couldn't It was hard to track this guy down.

But I don't have to credit.

The actor from The Waltons because his crazy eyes looked amazing.

Yeah, the wild eyes crazy eyes.

He did a really good job. We should do who did it better? Uzo Dubo gonna giving Uzo a Dubo run for her money.

So obviously, at the time, people thought that this was the work of a Satanic cult, because in the United States we love to blame everything on fucking Satan. But Mullin was raised a Catholic, as I mentioned before, and he kind of went back and forth between hating religion, having his own sort of religious philosophies, and then also getting into screaming fights with God, like he was communicating with God. So his relationship with God was you know, very complicated.

But it reminds me. To me, that's the link with the SPUs.

Relationship status with God. It's complicated. It's complicated, Oh my God.

So after killing these first three victims, he kind of attempts to get out of dodge, like he tries to join the Coast Guard, then he tries to join the Marines. He didn't pass the psychological exam for the Coastguard, but then he somehow did for the Marines, and the Marines were gonna they were ready to sign him, but he wouldn't sign this document that contained his arrest record, and

Be when people start to experiment more with drugs.

So it's like, you know, it's it's sort of a coincidence, and I don't think it's I don't think weed turned him into a killer. But so he goes to find Jim Gennara and he ends up at the house of Kathy Francis, who lives there with her two sons, age nine and age four, and she tells Mullin, oh, Jim lives somewhere else, tells him where he lives, and then he thanks her and he leaves. So then he goes to Jim's house. He shoots Jim. Jim doesn't die immediately.

We want to be a.

Blood sacrifice, but other obviously, later the prosecution argued that she was a witness and he was terrified of going to jail, so he was covering his crimes. So it's a little bit like what happened in the episode, Oh you burn this woman, you try to hide evidence, Like sure, you might be mentally incapable or incapacitated, but like you are covering up the like your tracks, you know. So that implies like a knowledge of right and wrong, I guess.

What connects it eventually? Like DNA or what I can tell you? I can tell you.

So then a week or so later, Mullen discovered an illegal camp site when he was wandering around in the woods, okay, and it was fourteen boys like in their like eighteen or nineteen. All these guys their names were Brian Scott Card, David Oliker, Robert Specter, and Mark oh god dry Belvis I think is his name. And they invited him into this like makeshift sort of like plastic tarp tent thing that they had made, and he didn't want to come in. He was very like anti flower Power, anti hippies stuff

I don't know.

And then so the cops were wondering, oh, is this the guy who's been killing all these female hitchhikers, which was really Ed Kemper, And they, like I said, they kept telling women to stop hitchhiking, and the when ladies were all like, m we're good. And so there was no evidence that tied Mullin to any of the hitchhiker bodies except for Gilfoyle, that hitchhiker, and he she wasn't

He's so wild because of Ed Kemper. I only think of the actor who played him in mind Hunter, but he's now in all these other shows, like he is in The Girl, He's like in Shrill playing eighties love interests, and I'm like, I hope you don't kill her. Like but to me, like when you're talking Ed Kemper, I only see his face.

It's truly who I see, and he does really well. I watched a long video of Ed Kemper for this, not that long. I just it's the longest I had watched Ed Kemper, Like, I watched a twenty minute video of him talking, and he's he is like extremely articulate and just like Set has a lot of good insight. It's really nuts anyway. So eventually Mullen was charged with ten counts of murder. He was not yet charged for the first three victims, White Whitey Father, Tome and Gilfoyle.

So Mullen said, I won't accept that.

You gave me a choice and I chose, And then his lawyer tries to intervene, and Mullen says, I refuse counsel and insisted on representing himself. And his lawyer is James Jackson, who ends up being ed Kemper's lawyer later, and he has also defended other famous criminals. So so Mullen keeps trying to plead guilty and the judge is getting annoyed, and the judge essentially doubted his competence to stand trial. So all the experts that examine Mullen determined

Like he was trying to be like, no, no, here's why what I did was right.

And then it really worked in another way, because it helped the judge decide that. And I learned about this thing that was kind of interesting while I was researching this, that all the writing he was doing, it's called hypergraphia, and it's something like it's an intense desire to write or draw, and it's something that you see in a lot of people suffering from schizophrenia that it's just like writing, writing, writing, getting your thoughts out, like chronicling details and stuff like that.

I hope they're friends.

Listen, it's wild. Watch a show. I would watch a show just of this. They put them in cells right next to each other, and from a lot of places I read, they were like oil and water. Like Kemper was six ' nine, Mullen was this little guy.

I read.

Kemper bothered him all the time, called him little Herbie, like all this stuff. But then when you look when you watch Ed Kemper talk about it, which I did. I watched a fifteen minute segment basically where he talks about how he dealt with herb with Herber Mullen. It doesn't seem like Kemper didn't like him. It seemed like Kemper wanted to help him figure out a way to be in jail and stop driving everybody crazy. So this

But yeah, but I'm sitting at the.

Edge of my seat, like I know I talked about this, but I'm sitting on the edge of my seat being like what happened.

It's like an SVU episode that you know you've seen, but you're like, wait, this is what happened. Yeah, So Mullen had this habit of singing and bother all the other inmates when they're trying to watch TV, and like, these guys don't get that much enjoyment and they get to watch like Saturday Night Special on Saturday Nights or whatever, and they're trying to watch that and he's singing, and he's screaming about how TV wrots your brain and all this other kind of shit, and the guys like all

Like, I don't think he really wanted to sing.

He just wanted to like disrupt, and if people are listening, it doesn't really work.

So he figured out a way.

To really help Herbie Mullen I think exist in prison without getting like, you know, maybe killed. And Kemper would talk to Mullen about the way that they murdered people and like Mullen would be like, yeah, I just shot them and they went down, and and Kemper would be like, no, you didn't.

They writhed around a little bit.

They did this sometimes you gotta shoot him again because they don't die right away. And the guy was like, Mullen was like, how did you know all that? I never told you that? And he's like, because I'm a killer too, like like I know you know, like and so he was like Mullen was shocked that he knew exactly how he felt and like how killing people like went down and her and he goes Herbie, I know

Up with people like that.

So he's kind of calling Mullin out saying, I don't think you're that ill. I don't think you think God was talking to you. Blah blah blah. But every single expert that interviewed Mount Mullen said he was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. So I do believe that he was possibly thought he was talking to God, or at least that his dad and mom were telling him to do these horrible crimes. As we know from Liza's episode on Kemper, he had serious mom issues, Mullen had more dad issues.

And Mullen thought his dad was a.

Serial killer, and he kept demanding that the cops take his dad's fingerprints and compare them against all these murders in California and the Pacific Northwest. So he just kept asking for that to happen, and obviously no one ever did that. And I don't think there was any proof at all that his father was a criminal in any way the prosecution told the jury, quote, there's no question he's mentally ill, seriously mentally ill, but that doesn't mean he's legally insane.

End quote.

Basically, they thought he hit his crimes. He even ground down the serial numbers on the gun. So even though he has these mental issues, he still knew right from wrong when he was committing these crimes. And I guess that's the legal definition of legally insane versus not.

They covered this well with Cabot in the episode. I think too, of even if you're dealing with your paranoid schizophrenia, you're still acting in the reality of trying not to get caught. Right.

So it turns out that in this case it did not happen like the episode. They basically sided with Cabot, and the jury finds mullensane and guilty. On August nineteenth, nineteen seventy three, they thought that the deaths of Jim, Jennia and Kathy Francis were premeditated, thereby making those first degree murder, and the rest were all considered impulse murders and they were second degree murder.

I don't know actually if he was ever charged for the first three murders.

Maybe it just was no point since he had done all these other ones but and was going to jail forever. But so the jury found him guilty. But I thought

I think in the seventies too, they just like released all these people into the neighborhoods with no resources or money or skill, and it's like, you can't do that.

Yeah, And what people were what I was reading a lot of was like he did not kill people because he had schizophrenia. He Usually people with mental illness are actually more likely to be killed than to kill. I think that's a common misconception. But like any antisocial personality disorder, paranoid schizophrenia is usually diagnosed before violence occurs and then.

You can handle it.

Like usually they can be observed in a mental facility and you know, medication can work. But the problem is a lot of times they you know, can if they're

Do you think if this person was medicated and monitored he wouldn't be violent. I just don't see that.

I think so.

I think that if the voices call, if the medication can calm the voices, and that's what's telling you to do what you're doing, that I think so. But he is now seventy four and he was denied parole last year, and at his parole hearings, he continues to blame his sister and his parents for making him commit these murders, so you can't let him out all these years.

Yeah, yeah, so you have to have remorse.

I think that's what parole is looking for, and that's how people can fake their way out. But it's like they need you to learn a lesson or what's the point of jail. You can't like continue to say you don't give a shit? Yeah yeah, yeah, absolutely, this is horrible. We cover a lot of bad crimes, but this one is pretty heinous. Yeah, disgusting. Yeah, really awful. And the intestines will live with me for a while.

Yeah, I'm sorry I had to do. I did have to tell everybody about that, but.

You had to, you had to tell us.

Yeah, yeah, but I did think that I put it in the show notes, this interview with Ed Kemper where he talks about her mull and a lot, and it was just interesting because Ed Kemper, Uh, It's like he was a horrible, horrible, horrible criminal, but he is like so articulate and he's in there talking about how herb was never gonna make it if I didn't help him, like and he kind of did help him, And it's like, why am I thinking that this murderer is like a

To this degree.

Like murder is bad, but I think, you know, sorry to bring up yellow jackets again, but it's this idea of like we're all layered, Like we're not all good, we're not all bad. It's choices, mistakes, moments in life and like not excusing any murder. But it is possible in the realm of humanity that Ed Kemper has other qualities and characteristics that are not evil and murderer. We just as a society can't look past murder. Yeah, unless you know you're a killing it your abuser.

But ah, yeah, well that's that everybody.

I'm sure there'll be another opportunity for me to talk about the Yorkshire Ripper for you, but ay, and.

It's fucked up because yeah, I like Ed Kemper too, but I'm also thinking about him in terms of this actor. But yeah, it's fun.

It's all fucked He did a good job of getting Ed Kemper's voice in the because when I watched this long interview, I was like, yeah, that is kind of how we talked in mind Hunter.

So the actors are incredible.

Anyway, we have a we have a we have another amazing interview. So don't move your little booties. I've been talking to Rosi about her booty too much. Okay, today's guest was such a delight.

To talk to.

We can't believe how many of our favorite shows. She's been on Sex and the City, Dexter. Right now, she's starring on the Equalizer with Queen Latifah and you can catch you in a new comedy movie that's streaming called The Fabulous Filipino Brothers. You know her as a recurring CSU tech, but in today's episode, she was the very affected Rebecca Chang. Guys, enjoy our conversation with Lisa Lapira. So you're in New York right now.

I'm in New York right now.

Yeah.

I was just gonna ask, is that where you're on the Equalizer right now? Is that where that shoots?

Yes?

Amazing, Well, we have we have a lot of questions. Yeah, yeah, So what is Queen Latifa, like we're dying to.

Know everything you would imagine, like the good version of your imagination, and then like time stent.

Oh wow, great. So she's like a Marishka Hargate of the Equalizer.

Yes, one hundred percent she is. She's a Marishka of the Equalizer, a hip hop icon the Marias.

Yeah.

I mean looking at your IMBB, you are just booked and blessed on so many iconic shows, Sex and the City, dexter Sopranos. When did you realize like, oh damn, I'm a working actress and I'm making it. Oh wow.

That there was a real crystallized moment where I was like, can I quit my day job because I would be working.

I was a series regular on the show.

And it was still like Nope, I'm going to work the cash regisir at this thing until they kicked me out. I'm going to sell I was. I was working at a baby clothes store. I'm going to sell the onesies until they fire me.

And then I used to do that too.

Really where yeah, in Connecticut where I grew up.

Wasn't it a trip?

I mean, did you have kids at the time?

No, I did it, cause yeah, it was all of us.

We were all a bunch of twenty year olds talking about like, oh, this child's a three T, like we didn't know from a three T.

But I'd be like, the good thing about this is that they can really grow into it. She's an overseason. Meanwhile, nothing like they literally run out of every They grow out of everything in ten minutes one hundred percent.

And I don't know where you worked, but like the shirts that I sold were like forty dollars for like a six month old, and I was like, you know, there's going to be vomit on this and they're going to grow out of it in two days.

No serious, same experience.

So I was.

I was on a show at the time and I was recurring. It was a show called hof. It was Showtime's first first foray into scripted and it was a

I guess I can, and I did it slowly.

I cut back my hours and then and then finally when I was like, oh, I can do this and I quit. That was when I was like, well, I guess by default, then I'm all working after because this is how I'm paying for toilet paper and such.

Yeah, amazing as a New Yorker. How was it when you, you know, got into the Law and Order Dick Wolf universe.

Oh?

Man, I feel like this is going to warrant several conversations because you guys, you guys, I did the pilot.

We did not put that together.

Wow.

I was like in and out.

I mean, this was when I was like, this is like when I was still not sure I could do this. Wanted to know. I always want to do this, but this was like this. I think it was my first job. Oh, it was my first job. So it was like very very The whole career was new to me. I didn't know anything, and there was this new show, a spin off of Law and Order, but it was just going to do sex crimes. And I was like, okay, and they cast me and I was like the waitress passing information.

Pilot. It was a pilot energy like is this going to go? Is this not going to go?

They were working stuff out, both very nice and when I, you know, came back several years later, literally I think it was seven years later. I got to tell them and I was recurring as like the tech. I got to tell them, Hey, I don't know that you would remember it, but I was there the first day because I think it was the first day. I have to check back, but I think it might have been the first day of the first thing, which I don't know makes me royalty. I don't Maybe you think I don't wow.

That for special too, because you got to see them on this first day jitters like you're talking about, and then come back in what like season seventeen when it's this giant like I'm sure the attitudes and vibes were different.

Uh, this is gonna be right and lang with your uh with the brand. Murska is lovely throughout the throughout of her being lovely and kind.

Was always there.

It was just more of a machine, like, yeah, it was a more of a well run machine. And and her taking the taking the rants, I mean, uh, Elliott, I'm just gonna always call.

It Stabler was still there.

It was kind of both of them, but but she very much was was the Uh yeah, just there's a there was a leadership, a natural leadership. They're much like Queen Latifa has. There's a natural leadership and a natural kindness that goes along with that.

And I just.

Think those are the people that are supposed to lead as opposed to to you know, tyrannical nuthouse if those are your only dues.

So you were like you were on season one as this waitress and then how then you come on for season two for this episode that we're talking about today, scourge and did you did they make you audition again or were they're just like, we like her, let's bring her back for this.

No, I auditioned.

You auditioned, okay, And then did you have to like cry and be like, my roommate is dead and do.

That whole thing?

I can't remember.

I mean, I'm sure I did at the audition in order to get it.

Well, you did a great job. Like we were talking about you, how.

Like so many people, so many young people on the show, their roommate is dead and they're like that sucks.

Do you think she's gonna like can you take her curse? Like you, like in the history.

Of this show, that reacted appropriately to the news. Given you weren't unpacking, you weren't moving bottles, you weren't rushing. You really were sad your roommate died. I watched it you. I watched that scene like eight times. I'm like, we've never seen this again.

Oh, I love it. Thanks. I remember the director because I came in with that right. Uh you know you read this scene. You come in and I came with the level of it. And I do remember the director Alex saying, you know more, I want I want more. I took more of the hysteria. And I remember at the time because again I think this is still like I felt like a little bit of a baby in it.

This was like a year after the I did the waitress thing, so this was I know, this was my third job I did. I did the SVU, then I did a law and Order proper and then this was my third job ever. And I remember being.

Like, Okay, I'll do it because you're the boss, but I don't agree. And then of course on the van ride home, I thought she came home and her friend was chopped up into little like of course, Lisa, of course you're HYSTERI Alex.

It's not too much.

And then when I saw it, I was like, yeah, that is that is the appropriate response to coming home and your your friend is in pieces, like literal pieces.

You're not doing laundry.

Well, we're big sex in the city heads. Would you give us some scoop? Yes from the set?

Okay, this is gonna go long.

Let's go along, guys.

I have some sorry, of course, because we're also obsessed with dexter, So honestly, we can just listen to you for hour, like we're so excited with what you're going to give us.

Stop the recording, and then we'll have so much tea. I just feel like, oh gosh, Dexter, you're taking me back. So Sex and the City was, of course lovely, and it was the It helped that it was like the episode. I don't know if you guys remember, well, if you're Sex and the City heads, you will the whole like,

And then we had to keep going.

So I was like, yeah, you got to take out the wires, you got to take out the food, you got to make. It's a whole process. It's like a three day process. And then she comes in and she's like, yeah, I'm sorry, he's just not that into you. And then she walks away and I call her a bitch. So it was that's the way to be on sex in the City.

Such an iconic New York moment, like eating lunch on the steps, like I just I like that.

Yes, yeah, with all the other you know, people in suits eating their salads.

Yeah, it was great, it was great.

Yeah.

What do you get recognized from the most uh?

For being other actors? No, that was a joke, for being the one Asian American or some they know. No, you know what ncis to the point where like I went, I visited a friend in Paris a long time ago, and the woman checking me in, let's just see me.

But you've you've played like so many cops, detectives, agents.

What is it about you you think that?

Like, you know, I would look at you and think like, yeah, this lady went to the police academy and is going to kick my ass, Like, but you know you carry that in these shows.

Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe it's the Queen's shining through, like you know, she's pack and she's down a pocket knife somewhere in her manicure set. Or I don't know, I do think it goes in phases, like the the whatever decision makers, industry, whatever you want to call it. They the powers that be kind of decide what you are in that moment. And I went through, uh, especially when I first landed. I went through like the new beeface, Like I I was the cop, the lawyer or the whatever. But I

It was very raunchy.

We were again we got to improv about how hot Brian Gosslin was, which was so difficult guys and pack sick, and then I was so then I was like everybody's best friend for a while. So I think, I think it's like what you're seeing doing and then if a just if someone who's in the power to make a decision likes it, then they tend to bring you in for that again. But I remember, like I didn't know from pr again. No one in my family did this. This was just something that I like to do, and

That's cool. I love that someone wrote that about you.

So you know, like you said, you're doing TV movies, comedy, drama, procedurals. I'm assuming you love it all. Do you prefer one over the other? Like do you are little parts of each? Do you prefer it's school? You do it all?

Thank you.

I think now that I'm getting older, it has to do with the environment more than the genre. I think if the people are cool and the writing school I'll basically want to do it because yeah, I really like where I am now, and I can imagine a scenario where I'm doing some thing I don't know. I don't even know what I want, but I'll just throw it

And you don't have to name names, but have you been on sets that are hell on Earth?

I think yeah.

I think everyone has worked with and I have friends in the real world. I have finance friends, I have fashion friends, And I think it's a I truly think it's a when it's important, I e. When maybe there's a lot of money or prestige attached to it, people can get cray because they're like, everything just becomes at a level ten and you're truer personnel. I think it

It's going to exacerbate what's already there.

Yeah, I love the sirens. It's very New York. I like the sounds of New York.

I do.

I think it fits the show.

But yeah, I loved Don't Trust the Being Apartment twenty three too. I just love it was so fun going through everything you've done, being like, oh, I've watched so much of this.

Yeah, and Unbelievable was like an amazing show that is I think very like adjacent to the SVU your universe, like in subject matter, you know.

One hundred percent and that's the true crime of it.

Yeah, And I loved that and like everybody in it was just so excellent. What was working with like Tony Kollette and Merret Weaver, was that like a good experience.

Like Tony Collette is amazing as an actor, and she wasn't one of those that would jump in and out. I mean, she wasn't one of those that would stay in the accent, which I think is easier. She would just shoot and then talk to her kid and her normal and her normal accent is so strong, it's not not even a mix of that and American. And so the technicality of that alone was impressive. And then add

Are there lessons from you know, you mentioned Tony being able to go in and out of accents? Are there any lessons over your career you've seen or taken from set that you think about often?

Well, Look, work ethic is big, right, I was, but I was trained to have really bad work at Like my my teacher.

Was a borderline.

I wasn't abusive per se, but it was very like if you're not giving one hundred percent, then go home, Like why are you, Like, don't put my name on your resume like that if you're going to put out that what you just did with your half ass homework, like take me off.

As a teacher was very tough.

She trained like Jim Gandolfini, she trained Kristin Davis, she trained a lot of really good actors. And so I came out with that and then and I think, honestly, I think that's the only reason why I worked because I mean it was no one was hiring this when I was coming out, and and I certainly don't lead with sexuality, like as an actress to no one was I wasn't selling it and no one was buying it. So the only thing I had was that work ethic.

What do you?

What do you?

What good are you? What are you doing?

The other thing though, I got to work with jud Law and I said, this is the thing I want to know from you. This is the advice. And he's like, what I said, how do you stay away from crafty? And it was dead serious. I was dead too, because like the first season of Huff, my clothes weren't fitting and I was like, and I was so young and dumb. I was like, oh la, because you won't walk and it's like, you don't think it's the eight grilled cheeses. Every day I lunch wash out with the pizza.

I'm like, no, what did he say?

He legit I'll share with him.

He legit gave me a good answer. He said, I go and he did this. People can't see what I'm doing in my hands. But he was like, I just I go into the future of like how I'll feel after I just go there. I go there, and then I feel it, and then I realized that I don't want to feel that way.

And then that's how I say.

Wah, he time travels mentally. That's interesting, man.

He emotionally time travels gets upset and then time travels back.

Oh my gosh, no, because I do what Jude Law does. But then I punish myself, like I know I'm going to feel sick, and then I go, you know what, I'm gonna do it anyways, but I'm gonna try self aware, try.

To This is so self aware. I kind of respect it. You go there, you go, Oh, I'm gonna feel terrible, but you know what I'm gonna.

You're gonna go where you can do it.

Yeah.

Not at least you're not like ignorant.

Because I'll talk about my own problems with whatever on the podcast and then listeners will give advice and I have to tell them like I will never actually do anything to better myself, so stop it. Like I'm just here to complain, and that's how I feel with food. Sometimes I'm like, I know this is not going to make me feel good, but I'm doing it.

Back and it helps to call it out.

Yeah, oh right, you.

Are you gonna?

I bet we're the same one.

No you?

Then you go? You go?

Okay, So your character is just see as forensic tech. There's no name to her, which annoys us. Did you give her a name?

Yes, I'll shoot, but it was like fifteen years ago. I can't remember, but I did give her a name. I did give her a name. I always do.

I did an episode of Blue Bloods like on a fly, and it was the same thing, and I was like, you need to you need to give it a name. I think at that point my agent asked for it, which is such a weird thing to ask, but I don't want to. Gosh, what is Jenny? I can't remember that. It's okay, that's okay.

So because you did like the first two seasons and then you came back for like seasons eight and nine to play this like recurring tech who was fun.

To work with, Like, give us the scoop ice munch like.

I mean, I didn't get them.

I only got ice and lunch for the for this episode that we're talking about. Yeah, I was always with Marish good Elliott.

Did you notice his butt?

I did not notice his butt?

Was what about? Well, you know his butt has taken the Internet by storm.

I don't know this, No, I know, I thought in America's butt.

I thought it was Chris the other No.

So the new show came out with the Organized Crime and he's really into working out and he's sixteen. He looks incredible, And then all the gifts and memes started coming out from the show with his ass, and then he did a men's health spread and interview magazine where he's like really tight clothing and splits, pulling cars, eating pizza like and everyone just had like a summer of wanting all about Malana's ass.

There would also be photos of him, like on set on STU that people were finding old photos of him like doing like lunges with like butt cheeks like clenched, and it's just funny, like.

Yeah, he has like he's pulling someone out of the water or like dunking a criminal, but his legs are spread like a stripper and his butts. Just people were like, what the fuck? So there was just like a big thing last year of the ass.

But yeah, we weren't trying to just put you on the spot and be like are you a pervert?

Were you noticing his ass?

Like this is actually has a cultural relevance in the zone.

I missed it. I missed it. It had not made it stribute back then.

Then you seem like you're busy working and not reading blogs about Chris Maloney's ass all the time.

So congratulations.

I feel like, I don't know, I could do some work on it.

You were really close to the butt though, that's a shame several times.

I mean, but I'm thinking, yeah, well.

And you have a movie, yeah, about the fabulous Filipino brothers.

Well, I watched the trailer. It looks amazing.

Oh good good.

It just came out.

What's today? The night?

It came out yesterday? It came out the eighth. It's available on all streaming. It's very independent, bootstrapped, like creating opportunities where there is none. It's the Bosco brothers who were They just have been doing it since before they were doing it, since they were ten years old. And it's the four brothers and a sister, and so they just wrote this movie about their family, about their town

You're like a love interest, right, I like the love interest.

So again an opportunity that you know, because unless I produce it, I'm not usually given that, you know. And it's the same with them. These are four leading men. They've been doing it for thirty years, but they were never given leads. So they created and the movie's cool because there's four brothers and the idea was like, Holly, we've been working, we've been supporting ourselves, but we've never been leads. So we're going to give each one of

The price of talking about it.

Yeah, so I hope I hope people say it.

It's not like it's on all the streaming Amazon and the Apple and all that.

I also love that you mentioned and because my big fat Greek wedding, Like I wasn't Greed, I'm not Greek, but we're Russian and we relate it, and so it's like the specific to the macro. So it's about these Filipino brothers. But of course if you're an immigrant or you're going to relate too percent.

Oh, I had the same experience you did.

I was.

I sat at that movie theater with my best friends Columbia and my other best friend's Dominican, and we all three of us left that movie theater like that was about me, except instead of a goat, like we do, pigs on it, but something's on a thicket, Like something's going to be on a sticket and you're gonna eat the skin and it's going to be delicious, and there's going to be, you know, crazy.

People giving you advice.

So I don't know.

I hope you guys. I hope you guys see it. I hope everybody.

Sees it and just like supports them because it's really cute.

Yeah, we would have loved to out.

It might be a weird statement, but we did have the King of the Philippines on lou Diamond Phillips on this podcast.

Something happen that I didn't know the democracy to Okay, the actual King of the Philippines came on podcast.

Yeah, I need to get on CNN.

We like changed governmental structures, yeah, blue Diamond Phillips.

Yeah, it just felt very Yeah, we just our Filipino friend was like, he's like, he's the one that coined him the King of the Philippines. We did not do that, but it was thrilling to talk to him. But if you wanted to talk anything about you know, you mentioned how early on people were not really casting like Asian actresses and there wasn't a lot of people and now twenty years later, it does seem different if you wanted to touch on that, if we.

Wanted to just end, like whatever kind of you feel.

Yeah, No, I always loved talking about stuff.

Because we talked to Beatie Wong and something we talked about, oh yeah, because he was on this podcast list culturalisas that we both like, and how he was talking about how he was on Madame Butterfly or some thing decades ago where it was an all Asian group. But he it made him great, full and happy, but then he was also pissed that it had to be this specific big Asian thing.

To have a big group of Asians.

Like, so it was this double edged sword where he was happy to be with everyone but annoyed he can't just always experience that he mentioned like being on set and being able to talk about these like specific mushrooms with Bow and Yang, and he had never been on a set and been able to like talk about these mushrooms. I forgot what they were called, but like it's like these little moments made him feel very special.

Yeah, wow, that makes me feel like, I mean, I'm gonna go a little bit bigger. There's a lot of women, a lot it's parody. There's like fifty percent women now in the equalizer in leadership roles, and that's very much by design. And I feel a difference when I communicate an idea. And it's one of those things where I didn't realize that it had. There had been extra barriers to trying to communicate my point until I had a female director and a female writer and a female producer

I think, you know, I came up, but I never wanted to.

Be, nor should anyone be like the Filipino American or Asian American voice. And that's it, and that's very much what they we're trying to do to Margaret show. That's very much what they do when there's like, oh, there's one and the only way other than saying it with your voice, the only way is to show them. And part of the reason why I love the what the Bosco family did with the Filipino fabulous Filipino brothers. It's

Mean, the.

Fuck up the ladies man, the dark one.

There's it's like, you can't there's not one way to be a Filipino leading man, you know, there's not one way to be a Filipino leading lady's. We have many flavors and we would never in a million years be like there's one way to be a blonde American actor or actress like this is it's like Reese Witherspoon or you know, it's Helen Mirren and that's it and you know what I mean, Or it's Amy Schumann. That's all you get. And I think that's what we do to

We're putting out narratives.

People are going to see narratives, which is the important thing because we can talk about doing things out of the goodness of our hearts all we want, but nothing really moves the decision makers, I guess, or the people handling the purse strings like the dollar dollar bill, like once Crazy Occasions or Black Panther or Fast and Furious, even which if you look at that cast is.

All the diverse.

Yeah, once you see like eight billion, then that's the thing. Not like kindness or human sense or integrity. It's like, oh, fifty trillion dollars, we should.

People will go through this.

But I really do think it makes things funnier, like legit, yeah, the kindness of our hearts. But I think when there's more diverse you guys are writers. When there's more diverse points of view in the room, just more funnier shit happens.

I always say, the people that are so against it, like you guys are missing out. You know, they're missing out on so many amazing talented people and cool performances and shows because of their ignorance. Where it's like you don't understand how much fun and smart and talented things you don't get to experience because you're scared of seeing something outside of yourself.

Yeah, and the audience is missing out on that too. There's room for everybody. And I think part of the reticence is that like this idea that oh, that diversity is going to push me out, when in fact, it's like, no, we can all build something even funnier to get like we're all just going to get richer.

Yeah, you could be the silly white best friend in an Asian show. You know that would be great.

Yeah, let's you and me do a pilot where it's like all the best friends, like there's no.

A and we're always on the phone.

Like a typical scene would be like, ah, Marcy has a problem with man again.

I got to get over there and help her see that he's the one.

And you're like, I totally have to help my friend move, you know what I mean. It was just us talking about our friends.

Talking about your best friends that we never see.

Yeah, we don't have any lives. Oh that's so good. All right, that was fun. Yeah, she's fun. I'm glad we both discovered that we worked in upscale children's clothing as young people, because.

I actually know other comedians that have done that. Oh really, Yeah, I think it's maybe a thing because the stores are dead and the folding is tiny.

Yeah, we love well, I didn't even do comedy when I worked, like I was so young, but like you know, I loved and then once you work in retail where you have to fold close. Every time you go into another store, you fold close, and people think you work there. Like every time I would go into other stores, I would like look at a sweater and then refold in. People would be excuse me, do.

You work here?

And I'd be like, let me alone, you know, because I don't want to talk to people. Now.

I never worked in reach.

I should have just pretended I did. You didn't.

Never. I was food service, reception and child's care.

Mostly. I never did retail. I don't think I could.

Yeah, it was my high school job, and then a little bit and then in college, and then a little bit after college, and then that was it.

But it likes it like you have to be very pleasant and very neat, and I don't want that. Oh yeah, you do.

You have to be really nice. I remember, like I used to.

You know, I love Cheetos, and I like the hard crunchy kind of Cheetos, and I would get them on my brakes, but I obviously couldn't get like cheeto dust all over my fucking hands and then go fold like beautiful white lay at clothing, so like I would fucking eat Cheetos with a fork on my break like a weirdo so much. Yeah, I was seventeen. I was like, I'm obviously eating cheetos. What else did we learn?

Yeah?

What did we learned? Philis?

I mean everything. I didn't know any of my.

God, I didn't know the post mortem of this.

This is actually the most post mortem that any of our episodes have been. I didn't know about syphilis penicillin. Life Insurance has to tell you stuff.

Yeah, you have to report STDs to the health department.

Yeah, yeah, that it's not that you can only pass syphilis in the beginning and then just live with it as it's slowly eats your brain.

Like I didn't know anything.

Yeah, wait, what are the like physical symptoms of syphilis?

Swiss cheese brain is what they say.

No, that's if you have it for like, you know, decades, like he did. But if you just get it from like a hookup. I just want to look it up. Really, don't we have a vaccine for syphilis or it's not a vaccine. You just take an antibiotic. You just take penicillin and it goes away. I guess there's like a rash, fever, swollen litterness. Yeah, but it said that secondary syphilis can

Yeah.

And also we learned that his wife is chill, Like he just held a knife in his the kids room and she was like, listen, you can't stay here, but you gotta go.

But you but no big deal, no big gie. Yeah, that's definitely a weird move for sure.

No, this one is fucked up. And uh great acting. I like that he was in the Waltons. Yeah. Yeah.

Karen Allen. Oh, I forgot to mention Karen because everyone's gonna write to me. I'm sure about it. But Karen Allen was a huge part in the Indiana Jones movies. She's the love interest in like two Indiana Jones movies and she's in the more recent ones.

Oh wow, Okay, Indiana Jones stands are listening huge ven diagram. I we should make more new ven diagrams. Yeah diagram. Oh you know what I saw on the internet. I sent it to you in a couple of my other virgos in my life, but it was a group of it seemed like teens. But they got together and present power points to other that I have to do with them, and it looked like a really good time. Maybe if you still have it or we'll find it and post it. But I was like, I would do a PowerPoint person.

No, it looked so funny, like just they were just doing funny specific power points to their friend group, like probably like guys, guys, Sheila's dated that are lame or something. I don't even I'm making that up, but like, you know, it looked so like I could imagine us doing that and having a blast, because you know, we love to make a PowerPoint.

Yeah, speaking of we're going on tour.

There will be games, there will be power points for sure. Yeah, one hundred. We really can't not do it. It's where my skills thrive. If you're like, where does Lisa come alive? It's a power point? Well not really, I do the Google power point, So it's a little tough, but I make do.

I make do you do do a good job though you are good, good at power Google slides whatever it is.

I'm a Google slide mask. Have you still been whirdling?

Yes, it's been getting harder. Have you noticed? I know, but I don't mind it. I have of Lisa nodding. I want everyone to know. But the New York Times is denying it.

And it's like, I'm.

Sorry, Nick, Yeah, that was that broke my brain.

I got it, but like I got it at move five and was like I'm about to die, like this war doesn't exist, like I with my I was up at four in the morning with one of the kids and like he had put them back to bed and for some reason decided to do the wordle.

What a mistake, because.

Then my brain I did in a word that didn't have the C in the other letters, just to find out is it a wired Oh what is it? Yeah?

Yeah, sometimes you do like a sacrifice move just to stir it up. But somebody messaged justin said, are you guys playing wordle on hard mode? I didn't even think that was a thing. I thought the whole thing about wordle was it was like it's just one way.

Yeah it is. And people thought Aroma was hard, but it didn't. That one didn't stup me. But cynic I was like, oh the New York.

Times, have you done Today's? Have you done Today's?

Yeah, I did it.

It was waste last night.

I might figure it out like Today's wasn't like crazy, but it just didn't seem as easy as some of the ones were when I first started, Like I was getting twos and threes at the beginning.

I'm like a five all the time now.

Yeah, I mean, but I don't mind getting it at four or five. That never was it for me. Right, as long as I get it, I'm happy to me.

That just is like indicative of the difficulty I think a little bit.

Yeah, no, I'm looking at it. I did get it, and I was wasted. It's just your I've been training for this for a year.

Yeah, you're a text twister, like this is your this is where you shine.

And not long Like if there was one extra letter, I could be lost, But a five letter word, I can handle it.

That's why wordle is perfect.

I mean, I'm literally today was like my thirty eighth game, thirty ninth game. I can't believe I've been playing this like for over a month. I thought it would like fizzle out, but well no.

Someone tweeted like, are we going to finish this or no? And I was like, I'll play till I die. Yeah, one one a day, Like it's you know, you can't get that addicted. Also, I did get attacked on Twitter last week. You know, I guess it was a controversial tweet. I didn't think anything of it. The person who I was subtweeting and making fun of knew it was about them and did not care and like laughed about it.

Just got here? And I thought that was funny. Yeah, like that was crazy.

If you're interested, go to Lisa's Twitter and see the I thought it was pretty innocuous.

And I am a friend of yours with children.

But I was just wondering, and some mothers were very helpful. I was just wondering the psyche of posting excessively because I wrote constantly posting I love seeing children, but I like the constant I just was curious at what is in the brain, and a lot of moms and people that we know wrote I just can't help it.

I can't stop like.

Yeah, they're like, my brain is broken. This is interesting to me. I know it might not be interesting to anyone else, but this is like what I like and great. I don't even post. I don't post anything five times a day, so it's like, you know for me, like it couldn't be my kids.

Because then someone sent me a screenshot of someone that was really mad talking shit about me, which also, don't send people. You never have to tell me if someone said something mean about me, I do not need to know, don't. I don't get that, like you know he said this, Okay, well thanks for ruining my day.

When you sent me the screenshots, I go, who is this conversation with? They sent you the screenshots? Like what is going on?

It's like people just want to see Lisa get riled up because sometimes it's fun, like, but come on.

No, I was There was no way I was gonna get into an argument with this person because it's like, it's not about you. I'm also not saying anything towards you. But I did mute his wife because she was so annoying. Yeah, well she Yeah, she posted so much that I had to mute her.

So it's like so stupid. Twitter's dumb.

But yeah, I just was curious and I love the moms that are just like, yeah, I never thought I would do this, but I.

Just I can't stop.

Yeah, you know that's that is actually what I was looking for. And it gives you, I give it gave me clarity that I didn't see before.

Yeah.

No, and I do want to pat my own self on the back. I saw texts talking shit about me. I have said nothing to this man. I don't give a shit cause I taught you.

I thought you told me that you got on with him and were No, oh I misunderstood something you wrote me.

Sorry, No, truly don't care.

He's also someone Last time I saw him in New York, I ran into him and he said like, oh I heard you know, I heard this person say this and this, and I went and you should believe every word of it.

I said, I have nothing to say to you. I don't know. Yes, yeah, this is like an enemy's crossover.

Well no, it's more of a therapy thing, Like you know, you sit in therapy year after year thinking nothing is happening, and then one day you're like, whoa, Okay, yeah, I guess I'm not responding, but I'm talking about it to thousands of people on this podcast. Oh they're actually growth or no, this is all so boy, you can cut all of this. I'm a nightmare today.

I feel crazy. I'm like, am I allowed to start?

What?

What's sister?

Yeah? Can you so I can go grab that Gatorade zero I've been looking at.

Yes, yes, okay.

I think this is a great transition from the lack of myntal health on Twitter to today's what would Sister peg do?

Our weekly segment where we.

Talk about an organization, we give you guys a link, a book, something that can sort of flesh out what we talked about, and this week we highlighted a crime where the perpetrator was a person suffering with schizophrenia. So we thought we would direct you this week to the National Institute of Mental Health NIMH, but specifically their schizophrenia research project, which is called Raise RAI se Recovery after

Surfaces is in young people.

So they have everything from behavioral health treatment services locator to videos about early detection and how it can save lives. So go to www dot NIMH do nih dot gov, or we have a longer link in our show notes that will take you right there, or as always in our what would Sister peg do?

Highlight on our Instagram stories. Thank you.

Mental health is very important. Next week we will be doing the episode Bedtime. There's some mental health issues in that one. I'll tell you that much. Season eleven, episode eighteen, watch along with us Peacock. I mean now, I want OnlyFans like this is bullshit that you get to hear me say peacock for free.

Oh my god, we're releasing a ring tone.

Also, stop telling us you like how these episodes longer and you love listening to us, to us talk, this is what you get. This You get an unhinged Liza talking NonStop like get away from me, Bedtime.

Thank you, We're obsessed with you.

Yes, We love you guys. Hopefully we'll see you on tour and we'll see you next week.

Bye.

That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production.

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