Savior w/ Henry Zebrowski

Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger.

We talk SVU, we talk crimes, we have celeb guests, and we chat up top catch up.

What's up, bitch? What is a bitch?

Not much?

You're in Montreal. I'm meeting you there soon. Hi, Way, pack a suit? Pack a suit. Oh God, I was gonna ask you. Okay, there's a pool. Okay, I'm gonna pack.

It's an indoor outdoor pool, but it might as well, you know, just in case I've already been to the pool one.

Oh okay, Okay, I'm gonna pack a suit. But it is weird.

Like when I was young here, it was like party, party, party, and now I have like I'm like booked up, Like I have a schedule.

I'm like being shuffled around. I have things to do.

I'm on so many shows, and I'm just like it's cool to see growth in different things. And be trusted. But it is like I'm used to just getting fucked up all the time. Now I have to, like, you know, be somewhere at one thirty. It's kind of silly, like I'm working out of your office at a Montreal hotel. Yeah, and I'm acting. I am embarrassing myself to the new faces. I'm definitely like, oh, and you should go here, and these elevators are easier, Like I'm being embarrassing.

I'm excited.

No.

One of the kids in Rosie's class, her mom is like from Toronto and it's like Montreal my favorite city.

She was like, I'll give you a list.

And I was like, I'm there for like not even forty eight hours, Like, I don't.

Know if I need a list. I didn't know you were that quick.

Oh yeah, baby, I'm like I get there tomorrow. I get their Thursday afternoon, and I leave Saturday afternoon.

I did not know that. Yeah, I can't believe it. I thought we would have a Saturday night.

I know.

Unfortunately it'll just be a Friday night. It'll just be a Friday nighttel Yes, yeah, no, no, I've just been texting with her about her show and I'm excited that we're gonna go.

Yeah, proximity to Trixie Mattel will bring this festival to and eleven, like any sort of contact with Tricksy. Yesterday I fell asleep to a montage of best of Pitstop Tricksy hosting, and wow, it was like an hour ten compilation.

I gotta watch that. That sounds like something i'd be. That sounds like a segue to get me into Pitstop.

Yeah, fun, fun, drag Queen's fun everything. Wait, did you hear the goss about drag Race?

No, what's the goss?

So the goss is apparently on this new season of All Stars with All Winners, they're not showing any negative critiques, but apparently the judges did give them negative critiques.

This show just decided to.

Cut them out, and I guess on like the third episode, Michelle said something negative to Raja, and Raja goes, who are you to judge me? Your only qualification for being up there is you're the host's best friend, damn. And I'm kind of like, I'm of two minds. Raja's a queen, she can say whatever the fuck she wants. I completely

Well, how did Michelle even respond to that? And is this inside scoop? Where is the scoop?

Can?

This has been written on blogs? So I don't really feel like I'm spoiling anything. Like somebody sent me the link to it yesterday. It was like on out dot com or something.

I have to Trinity. Trinity spilled it.

Trinity spilled the goss in an interview or like a podcast or some kind of live appearance.

Well yeah, because the pit's like someone's one piece was saggy, and they did not talk about it. And that's when I realized, like, okay, so we're getting no negative so there were they just cut it all out.

I think they decided that like the vibe was you know, positive, positive, positive, but also wildly All Stars Untucked is unavailable right now.

You cannot find it anywhere.

Oh when you got parted on Amazon and I am watching I'm watching it on my Amazon when you go to Paramount, okay, but streaming it if you go to Paramount or Amazon Paramount like any of that.

It's only seasons two, three, and four of Untucked.

I I'm watching it. Do you think I bought I probably bought it then. Yeah, I'm watching the Untucked this season.

No.

No, but so is my friend and she's like, it's not there anymore. I was seeing it on Paramount plus the app that I have, and it's not there anymore.

I don't know what's going on.

Whoa because I watched the Handa one.

I mean, I you could be positive and also say you're the outfits saggy.

Yeah yeah, but I guess they get.

It all about the details.

I'm team Raja on this. It is like I'm glad she put Michelle in her place.

Yeah.

I also get annoyed, like on on YouTube after any video pit stop or anything from Wow, it's Michelle Visage going hey, do you want to watch any gay shit go on?

Here?

And it's like you're not gay, Like, I don't understand why you're saying this.

It's weird, that's geai shit.

Yeah. If you want more gay shit, click here.

I mean, it is kind of weird because it's like rup Paul doesn't really give you carte blanche to like say whatever you want.

What do you mean?

Proximity to RuPaul doesn't mean you're a gay man.

Like you know, like no, I think sometimes she does annoy me and and I like that. Raja was like, are you kidding me? I'm better than everybody.

The only thing that Raja fucked up this season was her John Waters mustache or like the the Olivia Newton John mustage. I mean, this is getting way too inside. But other than that, Raja has slayed the competition.

Yeah.

I think Raj has been amazing and I love her in testimonials. She's great and I think she could take real notes.

I bet Michelle was being a bitch. Yeah maybe, but I don't know. I mean, I have inside scoop coming, so hopefully we'll learn even.

Yeah, and I can tell you something off Mike that Michelle did my season. I don't want to say it on here because I don't even know what I'm a know. I remember this, You've told me the okay, Oh I know, bitch too, we all know.

Oh okay, oh oh.

So I went to go see the Dixie Chicks and I'm sorry. I went to go see the Chicks formerly known as the Dixie Chicks a concert this week.

It was awesome. It was so good. They sound so fucking.

Awesome, and I would just like love them, but like, I don't know, I just this is just like my only gripe with the concert and with other concerts I've been going to. I want musicians to speak out about social issues. I want them to like say things, but every concert I go to there's just an artistic montage using all the names of dead black people, using all the names of dead kids that have been shot in school shootings, and the artists don't actually say anything. They

And for of all people, I was like.

The Chicks, like I want to hear Natalie Maine say something about this, like she fucking speaks up for herself, Like why is she not just saying, like, hey, the gun problem in this country is psychotic, like go here to donate, go here, like sign a position on the screen.

They could do one of those little codes and people can take photos and donate immediately.

Anything, and it's like, this is your platform and doing these like you know, Baz Lureman style music video montages like that are designed to make people cry and make people be like, oh my god, what are we going? Like what's going on in this country? But let's be honest. You're at the Greek in Los Angeles. You've got most of these people on your side already. Let's do a call to action. Let's get something like you know what I mean, Let's do something people can like concretely do,

I actually want musicians to talk the least amount as possible. They humiliate themselves constantly. Anytime they talk in between songs, it's like excruciating cringe.

I am uncomfortable. Stop talking starts things.

Yes, yes, okay, that part, yes, But in terms of like, if you're going to bring up social issues, don't you think they should just like say their opinion instead of having this like generic music video that goes on and like using the names and like kind of exploiting the names of all these victims instead and then not saying.

Go to every town, go to abortion funds dot org.

Like you, you're talking about all these issues, but you're not giving anyone anything concrete to do.

I don't know. It's just kind of annoying me.

But besides that ten out of ten amazing concert, The Chicks rule and it was great.

Yeah I saw that Shicks years ago, but it was too drunk and don't remember anything except for crying. So and I'll always have my merch but that's yeah.

No, they had They played like a nice mix of like old stuff, and I know I really love them because when they play new stuff I haven't heard, I still like listening to it. And sometimes when I go to bands, I'm like, eh, this is from the new album or whatever.

But like, I really loved everything they did.

And they did like a moment where they could place one of six songs and they had one of their little daughters come out and roll a big dice and like play the song that it was and it was cute.

Well, so Casey Musgraves did that, but then she what someone picked. She went, I don't want to do that, and then sing something else anyways. Well I don't know if that's part of the game or not, but she was like, fuck that, I'm singing Dolly, and yeah, listen to the person.

Everybody seemed to want this one song, and then they picked this other song, which is still a good one, but she.

Goes, I don't know this one.

Marty said this was going to.

Be a barn burner, and then it kind of was fine, and so later she did an extra song because she goes.

I feel bad about the barn burner.

Like, so it was funny and can you see if they like each other?

Still or not. It seems like they do.

But you know what's crazy is that the other women are not miked. I don't think they don't talk. So Natalie's the only one that talks like she's the full star of the show. Like Marty and Emily do not talk really like a little bit. We sang Happy Birthday to one of their daughters and she took a video of it. Like, but they don't really talk. I thought there'd be a little bit more banter between them, so

Like well, the documentary and like them making the album with Rick Ruben and stuff, it felt like they really love each other and have a connection. But then I've heard from other friends, like their opinion is, of course the sisters are fucking pisted it Natalie, but they are still rich and successful, so it is tough.

But like you know, I do know some people believe.

That the sisters are still fucking pissed it Natalie. Interesting.

Interesting, I was wondering the exact same thing as I was sitting there. I was like, do you think they were like shut your mouth because I haven't seen the doc or any of that stuff. But wait, you said you had something else to tell me. Oh so okay. So I thought that you would think this was interesting because I was listening to this podcast. I like Malcolm Gladwell's visionist history podcasts. I like it, and he was

Do baby, it was interesting shit on Will and Grace, now using the standards of what we like expect from television, but I think it's like a dumb take. I'm sorry, like to not understand what that show did. Like, even if you feel like it's cheesy or fucked up or digs into stereotypes. Now, like you said, the fact that it got made. Was I bet they jumped through a lot of fucking.

Hoops, a lot of fucking hoops.

And prior to that, there had never been a show centered on a gay man, like never, like, so it.

Was just like, you know whatever.

So as I'm listening to it, they're talking to Max Muchnik and David Cohen, who are the ones who who created it, and you know, Malcolm Gladwell's giving their backstory and he's talking about how David Cohen's father was. I'm sorry his name is escaping me, but he was this famous late night television writer MERV Griffin show.

All the weird name. I think it's like buzz or something. Oh yeah, it might be Buzz. Yeah, thanks silly.

And he so he's this like he has upwards of twenty over twenty Emmys, and so I was like, okay, So he comes from a like Hollywood family, and I think so does Max Muchnik Well.

Okay, like you know, and then they go and his sister also.

Creates television, Jeni Cohen, and I was like, no way, Like I had no idea that Jeni Cohen was the sister of the creator of Will and Grace and was from like Hollywood Woralty, like grew up in the business, and it was just interesting to me because I really always thought that Jenji Cohen, like and by the way, in case you're like, who the fuck is talking about? Creator of Weeds, creator of Orange is the new Black, creator of all this like cool, I think, female centric, groundbreaking television.

She's very talented, she's very smart.

But I just couldn't believe that this is a person I thought just came out of nowhere. And it just made me realize that like everything is fucking nepotism, Like everyone is related to someone well.

Because they hide it. Yeah, Like that is what is the most annoying. Just be real about it, Like I don't like the what is she supposed to do? She gets a job and she goes by the way, it's nepotism. No, I don't, I don't know. And they are great shows.

But I just bought. Yeah, they're so secretive about it. They're so secretive.

They're so scared people are gonna think they don't deserve it, and that attitude makes this speel you don't deserve it.

Yeah, it's just like there's all these people that I'm like, I've just been finding that out. I can't even think of like a good example right now where I.

Don't have any epicism.

I'm a true immigrant, Like I don't know, I'll always be like, well, my parents paid for college and that's yeah, I didn't have any debt, or like my parents helped me get the first apartment in New York. They put down my broker feet or whatever, like there are things that help you that I don't understand why you can't.

Just be like, well, I didn't have to pay five.

Hundred dollars in student loan debt every month, and that gave me freedom to run around New York, you know what I mean, Like, just I can be grateful for these little little things I'm not saying I'm a hero. I just don't understand why rich people can't be like, well, I didn't have to pay rent.

Yeah, I kind of started on I started on second you know, like I started on second base, Like.

It doesn't make your product worse, Like I just I don't get it.

If you're a rich nepotism kid, write us in, let us know.

That's why Kate Hudson, it's like, yes, my mom is Goldie Hawn, I'm hot now I'm going to be an almost famous Get the fuck away from.

Me that I like that.

Tell to embrace that. Yeah, Lelly Collins being.

Like I just auditioned and I got the show. No, you're a Philon's daughter. You're not a good actress. Get the fuck out of this business.

And that's on period. Okay, let's start the episode. We have an awesome fucking episode today and an amazing guest that you guys are in for a real treat.

Okay, so we're doing Savior. That's season eleven, episode fourteen, and you know this is the Misha Barton episode. And I have to be honest, he acting ruins everything. She is a terrible actress. She does have a couple teary moments, but she's not a gifted actress. She did not go to Juilliard and that is and I'm sure you can guess she's not our guest, so I'm like truly dragging her. So it starts out a scantily clad woman in a

And he's a pimp and he.

Wants her as a client, and she not a client.

I don't know an employee.

She responds, she has a man and she's all right, and she walks off, and it's revealed she's wearing a really shiny, cute like purple mini scarp and she adds to a car and starts chatting with a man who has a hard dick and ready to play, and she's into it and he motions her into the car and it's really creepy.

We can't see his face. He's not talking. We're scared.

She enters the car and then I also noticed she had like gold hurt.

Hoops earrings, and I did love that.

And then it cuts straight to her dead body and she has bloody cuts and bruises. Benson's crouched over the body and says a homeless man tripped on her.

It's like such a wild detail. Stabler walks in and his badge.

Is on his chain, and I love when their badges are like necklaces. And there's an imprint of a gun barrel on her head, and you know, rape strangulation. Her name on the idea is Abby Manion twenty two and.

She lives in Soho.

So if she lives there, what's she doing quote unquote hooking in a scuzzy place like this? Stabler ponders, and a lot of other things don't add up. She has a perfect like French manicure, she has amazing teeth. Something's off. They only trust you if you're a hooker, if you

Benson comes running in to reveal that Melinda found fluids and Abby, Hell, yes, we got some evidence and we hope it's in the system.

Stabler calls him a freak. Craigan calls him a religious freak. We're all on the same page. Yeah, I like the word freak. Yeah. So we get another quote from this arch angel bring to mankind from God the gift of compassion and stable of course Bible trivia king he fills in that this arch angel is the angel that stopped Abraham from killing his son Isaac. Do you know about this? You know about this is early in the Old Testament?

Yes, yeah, I think Abraham's suffering from schizophrenia.

Yeah, and he uh burning.

Bush tells him to Yeah, was it to kill his baby?

Or is this where circumcision came from?

Is this like chop off your baby, dick tip or was this killing your baby? I do not know, but I just I do remember the baby killing.

Yeah.

Didn't God kill one of his own sons too, Jesus? Well the main one?

No, No, yeah, you're right. No, I was thinking of something different. I was thinking of something different. Well, I guess there's a new theory that it wasn't really Jesus and like someone switched spots with Jesus or something.

I forgot who was telling me this. Might have been at a bar. I don't know, somebody switched spots with Jesus.

I've been trying to get out there, guys. I've been leaving the house. I've been making plans. I've been hearing god'spiracy theories. I've been going to the dive bars. I've been saying hello to strangers.

I love it. I've been getting sunburnt at the beach.

Kragan's like, how is murdering sex workers showing mercy and Benson says maybe since they're sinners, he's saving them. So they're trying to understand this madman, and Stabler is still on the wavelength of like, she's not a hooker?

Who is she? Who is she?

We gotta find out. I feel like this changes nothing whether she's a sex.

Worker or not.

But Stabler is very committed to finding this out. They're at her apartment on Crosby Street and they're talking to a landlord and he looked familiar, and he is he's been in four other episodes, all his different people, so we stand. He says, there's a mix up. I already

Help, you would show up to help you with an eviction. Come on, man, I don't know how evictions work. I don't think the cops help you.

No.

I think that's their favorite thing to do. Don't you remember when they were evicting a bunch of people in La they.

Like loved it.

Yeah you're right, Yeah they're right.

They won't they cannot wait to kick the shit up people out of their house and then steal.

So, yeah, you're right. I stand corrected. I sit corrected at my microphone.

So Benson asked the landlord, like, who else didn't like her? And the all knowing landlord says, oh my god, so many people. She is a scammer. Maybe she played the wrong guy on the internet. She sells knockoffs and fake shit. And then Benson, are you know, classy, classy shopper. She starts gripping it, smelling it. She goes even stitching these are these are knockoffs? These are like two thousand dollars each.

I love that thought.

One events and side superpowers is that she like knows what's expensive shit and brands.

Yes, like just the side things. She always knows.

I mean, I'm sure what she's do you think she's making one hundred grand a year no or less? I think so she's a single woman. Yeah, she's gonna diet. Yeah, she's gonna have a pension, a nice retirement. She doesn't take time off, she's not traveling, she's working overtime.

I've just never seen her with like a well, they probably can't do it on the show. They're not having her like have brand name and labels. But yeah, she seems like she chops up in her republic.

No, but Neil Bear gave us the brand of that dress.

Oh yeah, and I forgot it was like a Hugo Boss dress or something. She said, Oh you said, but he told us it was expensive. God, I can't wait to talk to Marishka. I can't though, I can't.

I have a fantasy of how I wanted to go and we're not there yet, and needs to be at her house.

Okay on Long Island in the Hampton.

Yeah, so.

The landlord is even more mad now he goes.

You know what, she had all that expensive stuff and still didn't par rent.

She was a fucking bitch and it's like she's dead, she's leave her alone, surplease. Stabler asks where did she get these deals, and he says her roommate Lyn Drexel. And they find her and she's working at a counter at a store and they drop like the box of goods on her desk and are like, what's up with these? And she's like yeah, I mean they sell them here.

I know her from Unreal.

Yes, Yes, she was like the Christian, a Christian who's a lesbian who ends up being a lesbian.

Yes.

And I watched a movie on a plane recently called Mass and she's in it.

Oh, okay, do you ever see that on the Delta?

No.

It's like two sets of parents meet at a church and you don't know what's happening, but basically one of them is a school shooter and the other one's kid got killed in this Wow, and so there's like a conflict resolution lady that comes and then this Brita Wool plays like the church helper and they sit in a room and just try to heal.

Wow.

Martha Plimpton's in it, the one who lost her pinky on an early episode of SVO so Star Sudden.

And is it Anno doud? I think she might be.

She didn't lose her pinky, she was carrying around her dead sister's pinky.

But yes, that's a funny Halloween costume, being a little pinky and is it block bag.

And having to explain that to everyone?

Yeah, I think we should do an Maybe we'll do an SVU costume idea.

We might be in New York. I hope, Okay, all right, we're back. We're back. We're back. So what did I row?

I wrote?

I think she'll blow up. I'm like, who's blowing up? I think she's gonna have a long, great career, is what I'm saying. She starts giving them info but feeling stressed, and Stabler lens It leans in and is like, why are you sweating? She's like, wouldn't you be if you just found out your best friend died? He goes, no, I'd be crying, not sweating.

Then he notices her idea on the desk and there's coke on it, and so she's.

Like, all right, I love cocaine. Just Stabler like taste it. He like left her id or something, and he's like, coke. I just hate cocaine so much, and I wish I loved it.

I know it doesn't do it. We've talked about this. It doesn't do anything for me.

I just no. I just get a drip and I'm upset.

Yeah, Like I just was hanging out with someone that's like, oh, I'm my best self at coke.

Well she's sober now, but she was like she was like a bump in the morning and I was the best. Wow. Interesting, Yeah, so whatever, she loves cocaine.

So she starts talking because duh. So they walk outside to chat. She goes when the market was good, you know, they were partying every day. When the market went down, the coke habit kept getting bigger. So Abby had an idea to take a couple bags here and there and sell them online and then they were Then they started selling themselves and their bodies and for coke. And she says, well, once we found out the governor was spending thousands paying for sex, she was like, I can do that.

And her friend said peace out bye.

So basically like the one that act.

Said I can sell my body and Brita Wool was like, no, not me, no, yes, oh exactly.

That's what I thought.

Yeah, okay, and then she says, ah, She's like, I'm not an addict and Stabler this is quick.

He goes, you just love the smell of cocaine.

Yeah, I mean that's an old thing, isn't it. Like I don't I don't like coke. I just like the smell of it for something like that. I don't know, but I loved it. That was like a fun, little dirty dad joke.

Benson gets a phone call and it's Melinda and they got to hit off the DNA. Do you know a Michael Gallagher And she says, yes, maybe she was seeing a guy named Mike who liked it when she licked his gun.

So Bam Swat teams knocking down the door.

There's two kids just playing on a puzzle and they start screaming for their mom. And then there's a woman. At first, I couldn't tell if it was like a wife or a mother of the house. Are higher like I didn't understand, but it is the wife of who they're looking for and the mother of those children.

But she gave me nanny vibes? Did she?

I thought it was a nanny because she's having like an apriton like I thought she was ananny.

Yeah, but she also does like an amazing like acting moment where it's like funny when they ask her where he is and she just like points.

Like I loved she nailed the point.

And they run to get him and he's playing golf games with a big screen in his little playroom, she says, and he's like whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on?

He puts his arms up.

Staylor brings him into the interrogation room and says, you love young hookers, don't you. So he's on the record because at twenty two he diddled.

They used the word diddled. I don't use that word.

I don't use it, but on his record, he was twenty two and he diddled a fourteen year old, Like who came up with that word? I feel like pedophiles came up with the word did it's gross? He said, She like, that's what that's what we should bleep. Is that one that's a kid?

He said that she looked older and he prayed for forgiveness classic and he's like, but I was just a kid, and it's like you were twenty two.

I just I fucking hate everybody.

Then they showed the photos of the women and he says he doesn't know them, and it's impossible his sperm is inside them. And it's like DNA does not lie. When will people learn cops do lie? So I guess it's smart for him not to admit it. Sailor starts playing games with him and pushing him, and he's like, deny, deny, deny, and he asks where's your gun and he says, I don't have a gun. And then it cuts to the woman of the house and she goes, he got a gun three weeks ago.

Uh.

But he would not commit.

Murder, she says, and that he found God and turned his life around. When she met him, he was wild, but she brought him to her church, and you know, he channeled all that energy into building a business. And Benson's like, yeah, but temptation is like pretty strong, and it came up.

And so she's like convincing this.

Woman to speak, and then secretly presses a button under the desk to record her talking. Yeah, but that's ever happened before. Don't they just record all?

Yeah? I thought they just recorded all of it.

She's secretly taping this woman Watergate style, and she starts to confess that he wants to do things in the bedroom that she does not want to do, and he gave her clothes and said that like he wanted her to be a little whore and you know, and then she goes, he gave me underpants with a hole in them,

Just well, and she says later their mouth is not a receptacle for the seed.

Yeah, we know she's anti choice.

Yeah, so they then they play this recording to the husband and she's anti blow job. She wants the seed right in her puss, and so he says, so my wife's approved. It's not a crime to want a little variety of my sex life. And Stabler's like, DNA doesn't lie. That's the gospel truth. And he knows he's gotten.

And finally he gets up and walks to the window to start spilling the beans.

And he tried to be a good man.

Oh my god, I just saw a meme today and it was like a man with all these beans on the floor and it said don't trust him.

So yeah, but you loved it. So, I mean, we have not even met me. Sha Barton, I know is going on. Oh he tried to be a good man and husband, but he has a need.

So he went online and that's where he met Abby and he loved it. There was no limit threesomes toys and they're like, eah, and she wanted to get murdered in an alley and he's like, He's like, I dropped her off there alive, and they're like, really, she asked to be dropped off at a random alley and he's like, yes, that's our thing, and and then they're like and you push, you know, your gun into her head and it left a bruce and he's like, she was into it.

Leave us alone.

And he keeps saying that it was part of their game, and that enrages Stabler and he's dragging the man through the squadron while handcuffed, to go look at the board with all the gruesome picks, and it's like you did this, and he looks worried and says, no, you gotta believe me.

And he says he just wanted to have some fun.

And he starts fully crying, and then Craigan interrupts him and goes another prayer card has just been dropped twenty minutes ago, but this victim is not dead. Done done. The man is crying so hard now. And now we cut to a scene I like, I mean, I think men should cry, But then I am laughing at this man.

So standing next to a board of like violent crime scene photos, just.

Like like sobbing into his hands.

We cut to the scene of the new crime. A uniformed cop is like filling mariushka in. I haven't commented on her hair. Yet it is glorious, It's perfect. I think it's one of my favorite chiclong bob with a swoop bang.

Yes, this is one episode after PC, I think, so it's the PC era.

Do I give off a gay vibe?

So the cop says, we're checking her out and it cuts to me Sha Barton in a leopard print fake for a coat. I have one of those and a red boled lip going on, and she goes, I was just snapping like I'm good, and Benson's like, yeah, he choked you out, and the other cop shows Benson a prayer card that was found in her purse. You hear a voice over loud over everything yelling don't tell them nothing, Sunshine,

Like, a dude, picks me up.

And when I woke up, there were cops everywhere, and the pimps starts screaming while being held back by cops, like, cops don't give a damn about you, Sunshine, so shut your mouth. So Benson turns around sexy as hell and it's like, you need to shut your mouth before I put my fist through it. And the pimp is turned on and he's like, wow, I like that, and he

In minutes.

We're now back at the precinct and Stabler and Benson ask Ice how many sex workers are named Sunshine? And I guess the NYPD has an exact number, and Finn says there's fourteen sunshines in the sex Workers' Union, Like what are we talking about here?

So they pin her asap.

It's Gladys Dalton and she's got a record going way back. Her first arrest was aged ten. Why are we arresting ten year olds?

I know? And it's like a cute little young picture of actual Misha Barton at ten, Like you're.

Arresting at ten year olds?

I know?

What the fuck? Yeah?

So it's theft age fourteen and seventeen for prostitution and she was taken at six from her mother and was in foster care for the rest of her youth. The address she gave on her last arrest was her aunt Seana Grant and then Murray Hill and they're like poor, but murray Hill's expensive, so I don't get it. But whatever, maybe it's like artists housing and they got a lead.

They go to give her a visit.

She's like what she do this time and is convinced they're there to arrest her, and they're like, no, we just want to talk to her and help her, and she goes, ah whatever. She's down the hall and Misha Barton, of course does not want to talk, and Benson's like, I just want to make sure you're okay, and she again says she's fine, and she shares a room with her two nieces, and Benson's like, shouldn't your pimp be

Support sticks? What are they called?

Yes, she has a crutch, yeah, but the crutches are under the armpits. What are the ones that grasp again, No, it grasps onto your arm.

Oh do you know what I mean?

I think they're braces. I don't know, but the leg brace.

Yeah, so if you know what they're called, I'm calling them holding arm holding crutches support sticks.

So that's what we're talking about here.

It's like the guy from something about Mary who's like faking being and.

Shallow.

How listen, these arms sticks are making their way through.

Cinema and television and we don't know what they're called. Forearm crutches. Casey, thank you for arm crutch or arm crutch? Oh we did it?

Yeah, okay, I'm shocked that no one knew though, neither of them. No, no, I was like a break a cane.

Yeah, it's like we were playing s categories or something. You were like, I got it.

Okay, So now that we know what those sticks are called, and I will continue to call them sticks. So Stabler, you know, she says, pimp. Oh no, no, no, no, she works at a night club. So the aunt is either like purposely lying or is like delusional thinking that Gladys works at a nightclub and Stabler is blowing her cover.

So we don't know what's happening. But the ant's not a good person.

And the Ant's like, listen, she had a tough life, and so I let her live with me at eighteen, and Stabler's like, yeah, to help pay for shit? You're not a good person, and she says, yeah, she helps me out, So what I have ms okay. And so then Stabler hits her hard and says, so you let her flat? We oh, not physically hits her, just with words. Fuck Staylor backhands her real hard. Oh my goodness.

No. He like drags her through the mud and says, so you let her flat back for your meal ticket? And she says, don't you judge me, and that her sister, Gladys's mother is dead and she promised to take care of her and she's doing her best, and they cut back to Mischa Barton, who says that she takes care of herself and Benson's like, yeah, and everyone else it seems like, you know, you take care of your.

Cousin, your aunt, your pimp.

And Benson is like, I want to help and it's true this time, and she says, oh, yeah, well I dropped out of the eighth grade, so what my god? So I do what I gotta do. And it's like, okay, we got it. You dropped out of the eighth grade. Such heavy handed writing, I can't, so I do what I gotta do. It's like she was speaking normally just a moment ago, and all of a sudden she turned into like a weird little ragamuffin, and Benson is just pleading like please, like I just want to help you,

And then he made her fuck her friends and then she started crying and then everyone's crying. He beat her and now this is her life as a hoe and she's his hoe. And he said, if you're gonna fuck, might as well get paid for it.

And that's so.

Then Benson shifts to ask like, what did this last guy look like?

And she doesn't know.

They all look the same after a while, and she asked, did he say anything to you? And he did and it was like super creepy and religious, and he goes, are you ready to meet your father?

And she says she will never forget that voice.

And she says that another one of her sex worker friends named Spud, and I kept thinking I misheard it, but it is Spud.

Okay, it is fun because I think I saw it with the captions on and what a name?

What street winded? Multiple times?

I went on IMZB and her name is Spud and I don't get it. I think it's like because she's really little, Like, don't you call Spud like a little guy?

Like a spud?

It's a potato, I know, but I don't know. I think it may be because she's like maybe the youngest in the group or something.

And it reminds me of like Pumpkin from Flavor flav It's just like kind of Pumpkin's coming cute. Spud is a wild choice. Put is wild, but her name is Spud. You are hearing that. So basically, this girl Spud met him and heard that little thing and like the father quote, and was like, get the I'm getting out of here.

So she ran away. What freaked around? She got away?

So they go to talk to Spud at Pat's Diner and we're here, and so they're like, some shine needs to keep her mouth shut, right Spud?

And Spud looks fourteen, so young.

And then this older lady's with her, coaching her on what to say, and she says, I kind of like talking to people, so it's fine, and she starts talking, but then the pimp, Marmalade, walks in and they stop talking immediately, and Benson and Stabler walk up to Marmalade and go, that girl is twelve, and he says, I don't know her, and if you ask, she'll say that too, And Benson says, one of them will talk, and then your sweet jelly is going to be all over prison And is that jizz or blood?

I think his name is Marmalade? I know, but so are people going to punch him in his blood? Is the jelly or is he gonna like that's a great question. Is this like an ejaculate joke? But if he's getting assaulted, I don't know if you'd be coming. I don't know what it is.

You're right, I don't know.

I didn't even think about that, Lisa, And that's why you're a good podcast partner, because you're by goes places mind.

Doesn't you didn't think what the swide elly is.

I just thought, oh, she's making a Marmalade joke, and I moved on like whatever. Maybe he'll just be like your ass is grass, Like, yeah, you're gonna be squolished. But I think I would need a dog named Marmalade. Okay, they'll be like, oh, do you love jam? I'll be like, no, it's actually a pimp. From a sad episode of Best.

For You Season eleven.

Do you remember.

Spud walks over to Stabler and says, if you ever need a girl for a party, call me.

I love cops and I thought she said cops. Yeah, but I get I bet the cop and so.

But then she slides over a napkin to him and Spud is on top of it. There's a drawing of the creepy preacher man and it says him just in case they thought it was a random drawing that and that. He drives a red Buick and Finn brings up a bunch of papers and Benson brings in more papers.

They have lots of papers.

They're like, we're gonna look at these papers for months, but don't worry. Stabler's on the phone and we're gonna get something good. And it was Spud, and Spud said that the red Buick is circling around, so they enter the red Buick in the middle of an intense struggle. They take his ass out and arrest him, and he starts talking shit about the Bible.

Not you know, Bible shit. He loves the Bible. He's not talking shit about the Bible.

And the sex worker is screaming and is very happy to be saved, and she says she told him to whip it out and he took out a Bible and she's like that fucking freak. And so, yeah, he started talking about the meeting of the Father, so she cut his ass and he goes, see, she attacked me, and it's like, we don't care what piece of work. And this guy's Lee Turguson and Margaret Show could not stop talking about him when we interviewed her.

She loves him.

They are friends, and also he's been on OZ duh of course, one of the main characters of OZ. And I wonder if, like Maloney and him had a good time and I imagine them going, I love playing with him their.

Lovers on the show, right, oh yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, they'd be fucking yeah.

So I wonder if they were just like so excited to be Thespians again tether. So they're in interrogation and Stabler is telling him, yeah, she cuts you because you caged her in your car, and he's like, I only did that so she sat long enough to hear the message. And Stabler's like, yeah, you guys always have a message, don't you.

And he says, well, it's not my message.

It's God's and he thinks there's a better life for girls like that in heaven and Stabler calls him God's little messenger boy, and it's like, that's fun. He says, God put him on earth to fight Satan's grip on these girls' souls, and he says, sometimes.

Dying is better than living. Very gen z.

Stabler says, did you just admit you killed these girls? And he says, no, I've never harmed a soul. But whoever did this to the sent these girls to heaven out of love and it's not murder. He grabs Stabler and puts his hand on his shoulder and does a prayer for God and like they it's weird. They put their foreheads together and they started doing Catholic quotes back to each other and it's will they kiss.

Feels like an Easter egg for the os It's yeah, and you know they talk about forgiveness and he wants the confession.

But the guy says, I have nothing to confess, Detective, but I'm willing to forgive and that's why I won't press charges against that little angel who cut me. And he says, well, that little angel won't be so forgiving, and we go straight to the lineup with Misha and Marishka getting you know her in the zone, and then Buchanan comes in, so we know he's about to fucking fuck some shit up, and he's like, nobody will believe

Oh, no, done done.

We're in the hospital with doctor Manning ak Emir Aarison, who's big on Blacklist, but he's in nine episodes of s You.

He's played two different doctors.

And he tells the detectives that she'll be okay, and so will the fetus. The fetus is twenty four weeks and healthy, and Stabler is hoping that this is what she needs to turn her life around, and Benson needs to talk to her, and the doctor is like, absolutely not.

She needs to rest, and they're like, we need to talk to her.

And he goes tomorrow and he puts his foot down and I love that, you know.

Ye how he could tell that the fetus is healthy. You need to do like a full anatomy scan to.

Figure that out.

It's a long invasive appointment. You can't just do an ultrasound um to be fully sure that it's okay. I'm just wondering because down the road we know that it has a lot of problems, so like, what happy you know?

So anyway, yeah, I'm just wondering.

Yeah.

So, without like a formal id from her though, they got to let this guy go. And Stabler's like, ah, Cabot will figure it out. So we got cut straight to arraignment and we have Judge Linda Maskin in the house today with a gorgeous up to and Cabot and Buchanan go at it and skags that's Lee. Turgison is like, I'm a servant of God, and nobody cares, and the judge holds him in remand without bail.

She does not care.

And back to Benson and Sailer at the hospital and they're telling Gladys.

The good news and that he'll be off the streets.

She says thanks, and she says she feels awesome and that everyone at the hospital is so nice, and she's going to make an appointment for her pregnancy and she's taking vitamins and she's super excited. And Benson's like, but you understand, you have to make big changes in your life if you want to keep this baby. And she's like, yeah, duh, and I want to keep the baby. And Stabler's like, well, if you change your mind, we'll help you put the baby for adoption. And she's like, I want to keep it.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, I think this happens a lot.

Like people that have had tough lives, they say sometimes they think like having a baby, it's like making your own family, Like, oh, I haven't had love, so I'm going to create something that unconditionally loves me. And but don't think through all the other hardships of having a child.

Yeah, she says, I'm going to be a good and I love that. Stabler's like, your life's gonna change, and it's like, your life has not changed. Do you even take care of your children? Like you work sixteen hour days? Like what are you talking about.

Kathy Stabler's life change?

Yeah, she says, I'm going to be a good mom, I promise, and that she already loves the baby, and uh oh.

The ants in the doorway, and she's pissed.

She's like, what baby, and she's accusing her of lying, and she's screaming at her for hiding it and lying, and she's like, you don't even know who the father is, and Benson says, I think Gladice needs your support, and she turns around evil and goes, you need to stay out of our family business.

Who's gonna feed this baby or pay for stuff? Will you? I didn't think so, And.

Get your doot and get your do goody asses out of here?

Did she say do goody asses?

Yeah?

An you think I wrote that? You thought you thought that was an original Liza statement? Do goody asses? Did she say do gooder?

I don't know who knows.

They slowly turn around and leave, and they're back at the priestinct having some coffee and they're like, damn, what are the odds this baby will have a normal life? And he says define normal and he thinks the baby's only chance at a good life is if she puts it up for adoption. But it's like, this is a mess. But at least we got his ass locked up. Then Cabot walks in right on time to say not so fast.

Well, maybe not abandoned, Gladys.

I don't know, bitch, figure it out.

So then the aunt in her stepmother evil fashion says she makes her own decisions and the moment she decided to get into that pimps car, and Benson screams, she was twelve years old. Have you ever heard of breaking a bitch? And she's pleading with this woman and is like, come on, she has a chance with you. The pimp took away everything she has been dependent on him, like let's do this. Let's help Gladys, Let's let's do it. And she says, I love her, but I was at

Yeah, Henry's old Pala Mine from New York and he has a podcast that does true crime and stuff called Last Podcast on the Left. They talk about I think they talk about true crime, but also like alien stuff. Also like it goes a little bit wider than true crime. But they're really funny, those guys. Yeah, super funny. I think we have some crossover. I think some of you guys like Last Pod.

And they have a giant bong that voice and they're like, we ordered pizza, not a woman. And the detectives go to search more of the apartment and she's there and barely conscious and a leopard print nighty or like a bra and they're like, what the fuck and a stoner guys say that like they thought she left after they banged her. And then there are liquids everywhere. Fuck her water broke. We need a bus. And then she starts seizing.

She I will say, that's the best thing that SJ. Barton did in the scene, was her eyes really did roll back? Yeah, yeah, yeah, good job. And I do hope those stoners go to jail. Yeah for solicitation. Yeah, we wasn't legal at the time. Like, I just hope they get put away because they truly like obviously fucked, like they did something bad to her for her to water have broke or can your water just break? I

Like I don't know. It's like it's confusing.

We have another doctor from earlier, and so it's not that guy. We get doctor Franz. Who is Elizabeth Marvel aka Linda Calhoun. Yep, Rita Calhoun. Rita why did Linda I don't know. So it's Rita Calhoun. So that's really exciting. And I always saw her as like being in the show for so long as Rita Calhoun, I forgot that she Yeah, up until eleven was like playing a weird doctor and.

In an episode like with Buchanan, I kind of think of them as like the same class of like evil defense attorneys. Yeah, she must come back, like the following we should look but when she comes back as Rita.

Yeah, I hope we can get her for this podcast. I'm really obsessed with her. What if we got her just for this one? When she plays a doctor for one second, she explains Misha has a grand Oh god, Okay, So she explains that Misha is a Grandmule seizure brought on by pre clampsia with brain edema, and Stabler like, you and I are like English, please, And basically blood pressure was super high and so they had to do a sea section and the baby's four months early and barely weighs a pound.

Yeah, and the baby has lots.

Of issues and there's gonna be like so much surgery and months in the Nike you and the chance to live is seventeen to forty percent. Stabler says it's worth it, and the doctor goes, I disagree, and Stabler goes, it's murder and she says, no, this baby will be blind, cerebral palsy, severe mental retortation. You think that's good, like Stabler anti choice Catholic adoption vibes, and it's like, why don't you adopt the baby?

Then?

Why don't you do that?

But he says, you don't know, maybe a baby can live a normal life. And she says, it's slim chances, bro, and I'm a doctor. So then they ask if Gladys knows, and the doctor says, like I told her, but sometimes it takes a while to sink in what's happening. Now, me shows with the baby who's in the plastic baby emergency holder thing.

Do you know what that one's? Thanator? Okay? I thought in Cuba.

Yeah, I loved having baby chicks in first grade. We had like an incubator with eggs, and then we had all.

These chicks in the claust. That's so cute.

God, miss Ardell love you okay. And then two of the baby chicks got to go on The Bachelor. Yeah.

And then sometimes during class they would like escape their little cage and there would be like little chicks walking around.

It's so cute.

Misha's I loved first grade. Guess how many jellabeans are in a jar? That was fun. Yeah, it only goes chat like like read a book.

I don't know. It was the first grade was nice. Okay.

So Misha's with the baby who's in a plastic baby and an incubator, and she calls the baby a miracle, but hasn't named her yet. She wants to pick the right name and then take her home, and Benson's like that might not be for a long time, and she goes, I'm not worried, She'll be fine, and Benson's like, what if she's not?

What then?

And Benson starts to plead with Misha, like she can't suck or swallow on her own, And I think those are wild actions to pick from all the actions to talk to us like a sex worker, be like, your baby won't suck or swallow?

And it's like, could you have thought of something different? Like I there's other things you could have said? She asks if she thinks the baby is suffering. Benson answers, I don't know. Misha's like, she can't die. She can't. I told them to do whatever it takes to save her. But it's also like, okay, medical bills. And then Benson walks in and says to Stabler and anyone else who's around that she's gonna do everything she can to save

Turguson and read scripture to girls and then bully them into doing what you want, like stay out of it, Stabler. And so Benson and Stabler have a back and forth and Stabler says, well, you're not a parent, so you don't get it. And then Benson's like, because I'm not a mother, I don't care about this baby. And he says that's not what he meant, and it's like, it is what you meant. Yeah, it's absolutely what you meant, and he loves to do that shit.

Well, yeah, and the whole thing is like.

Being a parent makes you care about other babies lists because you care about yours the most, Like that's the whole point.

It's like, no, that's what parenthood is.

That's why I think that's why people are so into keeping a nuclear family, because you are, like, I care about my family, and that's why they let like, if we cared about all the.

Kids, kids wouldn't be at the border, kids wouldn't be places.

But people care about I have found I've always loved kids, and I found since I had kids, I'm more affected by like stories about mistreatment of kids or kids or anything.

I care more about other kids.

Yeah, but it's like the thing of like our friends, like buying a house in a different neighborhood to not.

Do the school set.

Yeah yeah, because you don't care about another kids. You want your kid to have the best bet.

Yeah yeah, I hear you.

And so well, it's also kind of like at Rosie's birthday party, who stay who brought the best gifts? The people without kids, who stayed late to help put the chairs away and help you clean.

Up, the people without kids.

When you have kids, you focus on your kids. And so to like tell Olivia she wouldn't care about this baby, especially all the work that she does at the police.

Station, it's like, go fuck yourself. Oh yeah.

But then she brings Eli into the discussion, which if this was the Real Housewives, there would be a full physical altercation.

Not talk about the kids, and.

They don't understand analogies in the Real Housewives universe. So it's like, to bring Eli into the discussion, I was like, oh my god, oh my god. But he says I wouldn't uh. He basically says I wouldn't play god. And she says, then don't play doctor either, and Cabot walks in to break the tension, and she says, let me guess the baby.

I mean, I just wonder what.

Elliott would actually do because it has any had moments of compassion where he does like let the kids.

Yeah, like what about that guy like kidnapped his own baby because the baby was like gonna like was in pain and having a horrible death, but the guy wanted to take him off. I think the father wanted to keep him on and the mother wanted to take him off of life support. And I think it's stay Blene

A horrible life.

So I know someone like would stable keep like a Taystocks baby in pain.

Like what happens when like you do go to the hospital and you're a sex worker with no money and they're like this is going to require millions of dollars of surgery? Does the hospital do it knowing they can't pay for it?

I don't.

I don't know because I've heard stories of like people getting turned away from hospitals because they don't have insurance and then like dying on the street.

Yeah, so it's like I don't know what the ethical I don't.

Know what happens because I mean I had to put a credit card down for my birds, you know, like if my insurance didn't pay for it, they probably would have charged my card or something.

Your births, my birds. Yes, it sounded like birds, but I knew you were talking about your births, but it was when I brought my birds to the hospital.

But also going back to the parent thing, like even when I would babysit, like if anyone was kind of mean to the kid I baby said at the park, it's like watch like I'm not nice to you.

Yeah, I'll be like, get the fuck away from this.

It's crazy act like it's but it's part of the whole, like hubris of people that do have like tons of kids and are Catholic and are like what am I trying to say? That? Like Stabler is just like we know because we're it's like our special magical gift. It's like no other people can care about children, like yeah, and people that have children are horrible to their children.

If you watch SVU, Yeah, if you're a parent.

You'd understand how all these parents are doing a pretty bad job. I watch it every week. Yeah, that's definitely another thing of like parents. It just makes you a better person.

It's like, what about I'm trying to think of why are all the SVW episodes?

I'm like falling for a blank. I don't even the rock Star mom.

Was mad the rock Star mom? When are we getting Hayden Panter.

I don't know if you know this, but last week I watched Scream two, three, and four.

I didn't know that great. Did you see five? Of course I saw it on a plane. Yeah, I think I told you I watched that.

And then the guy next to me is watching Silence of the Lambs and I'm like, oh, look, we love horror. We're And then he watched Jango Unchained and I'm like, you're unhinged, like Silence of the Lambs and Wild back to back.

So you know, everyone knows on this podcast that I love Silence of the Lambs, but to watch it on a plane feels wild.

I like being well. One time I was making.

Skin suits out of women. One time I was watching over Idaho The Gift. Oh yeah, I've seen that.

That's scary, And Matteo was sitting in front of me, but I got so scared that I screamed so loud, and then I just saw his head slowly pop up with the most evil glare, like what is wrong with you?

And it's like the gift.

Cabot walks in to break the tension, and she says, let me guess the baby, so Cabot knows that they're arguing. I mean they but Stabler likes to do this to live and it does piss me off, and I feel defensive of Olivia when he's just like, you fucking spinster, I don't give a shit at what you say or you don't understand. I just hate when he talks down to her, yeah, or like talks about her dad, like, I just don't like when he comes for her.

And empathy is her one of her biggest traits.

It's insane, like she fucking helped your wife in a car accident give birth to your son as she was dying.

I just, ugh, what a fuck?

And Benson is like, yeah, I mean me and Elliott obviously don't see eye to eye. I'm also really defensive about this because this has happened to me. Yeah, people say crazy shit to me.

You won't understand, and like I wouldn't.

I could never say that to a person.

But and its apost like of course, like I also know things are I don't know it just it does bother me. She says, well, let's just focus on putting the red buet guy away, and Cabots like, we need her to testify, and Benson's like, her baby's like a pound, she's not going to leave the hospital, and Cabot says, I don't care. We cannot let him get back on the streets. So if she doesn't come, arrest her for prostitution, and Benson doesn't want to, and Cabots like, I don't care,

So Benson arrests her.

This sucks her curls look incredible, Like where did Misha Barton find time at the hospital to do an immaculate curl accession turn.

Also, the baby that they use for this must be a prop.

You cannot get a baby that tiny.

I was very.

Uncomfortable every time they showed the little baby on the vergin of desk.

Yeah, they were like doing baby CPR on her. I'm like, we don't need I think it's a prop, fake baby. Yeah, I don't think they stole a baby for them from the nick to nick you get your SAG cards early, Like, I don't think so.

Do you have a baby that was born two to three months early?

The casting breakdown, Sorry, she's on.

The stand retelling the attack, and she points to Bill skagg Skaggy Lee Turgison and oh no, it's Buchanans time. So this is not going to be good. And he's obviously an asshole. He's spinning it that she's turning on him now to make a deal and not because it's really him who did it. And he's like, you dumb bitch, why did you drop out of the eighth grade? And it's like yelling that someone at twelve did something wrong.

It's very vicious.

That's what makes him such a good defense attorney.

And she says none of that matters, like the man who tried to kill me, Like that's the truth and I'm not going to let him get away with that, and her eyes are tearing up.

She's doing good.

I believe they put a little stick of menthol shit under her eyes.

I don't think she can cry and no shade.

He calls her a criminal, and she looks sad, and then Cabot comes back up and asks how long did your pimp control you? And she says since she was twelve years old, so ten years? So how many nights a week did he force you to work?

Five? How many men a night? Six?

So then she does all the math and she says, since the age you were twelve, you've been raped thirteen thousand times.

We can sit with that number.

And then she says yes, and Rabbit says, I hope I cleared things up for you, counselor, as she turns to Buchanan and says that's a victim and points to Skags and goes and that's a criminal.

Love this Cabot's so hot. Drop.

So he gets up and goes, excuse me, I'm a criminal, and the judge yells at him to sit down, and he starts talking about Satan penetrating her and then goes, you whore. God demands your repentance, and he pushes the table and runs to the witness box and the bayliff knocks him off his feet and onto the ground, and the judge is hitting her gavel like that's gonna do anything. Like this man is having an emotional, wild psychological break and like jumping up and down and you think the.

Gavel's gonna stop.

Yeah, maybe gavel on his Sorry, yeah, I'll go back. She says the IDA will be used and he needs to be taken away, and he's screaming and screaming. He's being dragged out by three men as he screams. Barton looks very stressed in the hallway now and Benson walks out and says, Cabot's dropping the prostitution charges.

You're a good girl. Ouh, you're a good girl. She didn't sit it, Oh my god, And she.

Is sad about everything you can and said about her and Benson says, that's all behind you, and she says this will never be behind me, and I yeah. So she's crying. What am I supposed to tell my baby when she grows up? And they're like, your baby is not going to grow up? Like how many more times do we have to tell that your baby is done.

And will not understand what prostitution even is?

Like I obviously.

This is sad, but it's like I don't know, so it's awkward.

Benson is good and she says all that matters is that you love your little girl and you will make the right decision for her now and she will understand. Amisia says yeah and cries and says right Decisionugh, then hugs her and smiles, and she cries and walks off, and then Benson looks worried as she watches her leave, you know, the courthouse. And Craigan knocks on Benson's apartment and he has papers in his hand. A lawyer left

Dick Wolf, Baby, what do you think she does? Um calls Elliott. I don't know, to shame her.

I think she lets the baby pass.

You do, yeah, because we'd hear about this baby, like there'd be something about it, don't you think?

Yeah?

But I think she wants to do what Gladys wants.

Maybe yeah, But it's like, does power of attorney mean financial? It's like, again, I don't know who pays for millions of dollars of surgery.

No, I have no idea.

But there's not been that many cliffhangers on SVU that aren't two carters, So that's it. The only one I can think of is the Shannon Sassiman one at the College professor rape.

But like this were like more like even identity where it's like which one did it? You know?

Yeah, very rare to have a cliffhanger.

So and star studded while I was watching it, I saw but I'm like, it can't be Lee Turgison but it wait what like it was a wild episode and we learned a lot of words.

Yes, okay, we will be right back with some crazy true crime. Okay, Lisa, do you know anything about the Yorkshire Ripper? No?

But is that because what's I know? Jack the Rip?

Jack the Ripper?

I actually don't have.

Old timey Yorkshire Ripper is the seventies and early eighties. Okay, So this episode is based on Peter William Sutcliffe, who was an English serial killer who the media nicknamed the Yorkshire Ripper and he was His name is Peter William Sutcliffe. But eventually, after he went to jail spoiler alert, he gets caught, he started using his mother's maiden name and

Had started watching The Ripper.

There's a four part series on Netflix called The Ripper, which is one of my sources here, and I started watching it, and for some reason it was like boring me. And then when I watched it this time, I was like really wrapped by it. So I don't really know why. I was just the wrong time. Anyway, there is a four part series all about this man.

He was born.

This man, Peter Sutcliffe was born to a working class Catholic family.

He was a loner. He dropped out of school at fifteen.

He had a bunch of shitty jobs, like he was a grave digger, and then I guess that led to a job part time at a morgue, and he apparently bragged his friends about robbing bodies at the morgue. So like, and he started to develop like sort of a sixth sense of humor, they said, once he started grave digging and working at the morgue. So eventually he became a truck driver, and then that was the job he had the entire time that he was killing.

But it's that's kind of irrelevant. It doesn't really have anything to.

Do with it.

He was known to patronize sex workers, and apparently there's a sort of unsubstantiated claim. I think that one time a sex worker stole from him with her pimp, and that that is sort of what started his hatred for sex workers. But his first recorded attack was in nineteen sixty nine and he was so he was about twenty three, and he was out looking for the woman who robbed him, and he met a different woman who is unnamed. She didn't want to be named and I think never press charges.

They who did he get interrupted by.

Like like cars going by, Like he didn't know what he was doing at first. He would just like attack women on open roads at night, and then like a car would come by and he'd run away, you know, so like he wasn't planning things. He wasn't like a sophisticated killer at the beginning. So those women lived, but they had massive trauma from the attacks, both like mental and like brain like literal brain damage from the I got.

A friend a comics told me that he dared someone at school once to snort like lead from a lead pencil, and that he never came back to school again.

What oh Jesus, that's aggressive.

And everyone hated him because he made the kid do.

It careful with your dar's, dudes, that's wild, okay. So and Olive Smelt told the police that this man had a Yorkshire accent. The police ignored that, okay. In Tracy's case, he had her with a hammer a bunch of times and then was scared off by headlights.

Why would they ignore that?

They just they they didn't connect these attacks at the beginning to the Yorkshire ripper. Yet so there were all these attacks, there were like these attacks or whatever, they were.

All the same with cut mid sections, and they didn't know it was the same person.

The police incompetence in this case is going to astound you. You need to, like you need to just prepare yourself because it gets so much worse. And there's there's like there's like echoes of it in the SVU episode. Not the police incompetence, but the way that the police look at sex workers. I mean you could even when when stablers like trying to figure out that the first victim Abbey, It's like, I don't think she's a sex Wert's like

So Sutcliffe hit her twice with a.

Hammer, stabbed her many times, and a medical examiner in the Netflix dock the ripper said it was done by someone a considerably disturbed person, so well he didn't need.

To be a medical exactly exactly. I thought i'd throw that a professional quote in.

But so Leeds at the time is considered like a decaying suburb, so I guess they're just like a lot of industry had left the city and so they have a red light district. And it seems that Sutcliffe at that point refocused his attention on sex workers and started work like killing in areas and attacking in areas with

But again it seems dumb.

So the press called Wilma a quote unquote good time girl. And one of the reasons that he was able to avoid capture for so long was because the press, like they say it in these interviews, they're like, they do not give a fuck about sex workers. Like one reporter goes, yeah, you read about Wilma mccannon, You're just like another minor story, like a sex worker being murdered, like and so at at first, it wasn't super acknowledged. There wasn't a big

Picked her up and driven her to a bad part of town.

So I think he started to realize, I can't just kill women I see walking down the street. I've got to get a woman in my car and take her to a place where I can kill her to not be detected or whatever. So his next attack was a twenty year old named I think it's it's Marcella, but in England, I think they say Marcella. So anyway, Marcella Claxton is attacked three months later in May, and she

So it's just hammers should be outlawed.

I know.

It's like I have three in my house right now.

So the Ripper takes the rest of the year off and then in February of nineteen seventy seventies back at it. On February fifth, he attacks Irene Richardson, who works in Chapeltown, which is the red light district of Leeds where that's where Wilma had been the night of her death. And later people questioned whether Irene was actually a sex worker at all, or whether the police just put that on her to fit their theory.

Like there's one guy in the Duck documentary who says, yeah.

Up until ten days before her death, she was a really respectable person and then she just slided down into decline and lost her status, is what they kept saying. And I was like, so ten days before she dies, she just becomes a sex work. Like it feels like the police were just trying to make this a killer of sex workers. I think also in a way to not like alert the public, like don't worry if you're not a sex worker. This isn't like a big deal and it's it's super fucked.

But Irene's death is what.

Connected got them all to connect it. It's like that's when they were like, okay, this is a serial like this is a guy who's out here doing this. She was bludgeoned again, and then she was mutilated post mortem thank god, you know, silver lining, and the contents of her purse were like neatly laid out, and they say the bodies are displayed. I don't really know what that means because they don't get specific about it, but I think that's a common part of his emo. So the

They're all knocked out, murdered, and there's no evidence of rape. He does not.

Assault them, so this is purely about just like rage towards women and wanting to kill. So a couple of months later, in April, he kills a woman named Patricia Tina Atkinson. Tina's in quotes. I guess that's her nickname. And she's a sex worker. And he kills her in her apartment in Bradford. And that's the first time and maybe the only time he kills someone in their home. Most of the time, this guy works outside and it's like a departure for him, and it's more dangerous for

He left this.

Woman's body she's sixteen. She's sixteen. He leaves her on a playground after the murder, but he didn't murder her there. He took her there and left her there. So I don't know if that's like a signal, but she's not a sex worker. And this woke people up and like that any woman could be a victim of this psychopath, Like he's not just going after sex workers. And the way that the police cared about this victim more than the other victims is like striking, Like they call her

And it's also like maybe he's targeting sex workers because he knows you won't investigate.

Yeah, fucking yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

So the next month July nineties, I'm sorry, July of seventy seven, he attacks Maureen Long, also in Bradford, but he was interrupted this time and he took off and left Maureen for dead, and when they found her she'd been stabbed forward to five times and was suffering from hypothermia, and she was hospitalized for nine weeks, and she was considered the first survivor because they hadn't yet linked these first three women to the attacks by him, but she

Survivor for them.

A witness also misidentified the make of his car, which led to a huge wild goose chase of three hundred cops checking thousands of cars and not coming up with shit. On October first that same year, he murdered Jean Jordan, a sex worker from Manchester that's ninety minutes from Yorkshire, so the police found it weird that he kind of

That the police were very frustrated.

On December fourteenth, he attacked someone named Marilyn Moore and she was another sex worker from Leeds.

She survived. She gave the police a description.

Then the tire tracks that her attack matched her description looked like Sutcliffe, So she gave an accurate description. Like in the end, she gave a great description and so had other survivors. And she provided a good description of his car which had been seen in red light districts.

So they's like they have a look of this guy.

I have to say, when you look at him he's bearded, kind of not a nondescript like.

I'm sure a lot of guys look like him.

So. Then in January of nineteen seventy eight is when they stopped the five dollar billing investigation. And that same month he killed a twenty one year old named Yvonne Pearson, who was another sex worker in Bradford. Bludgenger with the ball pen hammer, jumped on her chest before stuffing horsehair in her mouth from a discarded sofa that was near where he killed her, and then he hid her body under the sofa, just like wild's pointless things to do.

This is not I know.

It's crazy.

There's so many murders, so many, and like sometimes he's doing it a week apart, and sometimes he's waiting three months. It's like, you don't know what or maybe we're not connecting some of the cases. I'll get into that a little bit later.

Anything about this guy, he's like a madman.

Yeah, So killed Helen Rika eighteen three months later, he killed Vera Millward. She was a forty year old sex worker who was actually quite sick. She was frail and sickly. She only had one lung, she had chromic chronic stomach pains. And she went to go meet a regular client of hers who never showed up, and that's when Sutcliffe picked

He just hates women like he wants to murder.

So it was speculated that because they were monitoring the Red light district so heavy in these cities that now he was moving out of them and that's why he killed this woman because she was just like walking home and like he didn't want to get caught in the red light district. So they had forensics to work off of in this case of Josephine Whitaker. But the police

Like we had victim was telling you it was the Yorkshire accent, and it's like on random man calls and you throw it all over out.

Exactly September first of nineteen seventy nine, the Ripper murders twenty year old Barbara Leach, who is a Bradford University student, and this was his sixteenth attack. But this is another woman who's not a sex worker. So the public is again shocked and they are much more giving a shit a lot more so there was like an extensive publicity campaign that involved the wearside accent, which we know was a false lead. And even in nineteen seventy nine, Sutcliffe

In November of nineteen eighty.

In between these two murders, he attacked three other women who survived a Padya Bandara in Leeds.

Maureen Lee known as Mo she's.

In the documentary talking about her experience, and sixteen year old Teresa Sykes were all attacked, but all three of these women survived. On November twenty fifth, Trevor Birdsall, who is a they say an associate of Suckcliffe. They're not calling him a friend. I don't really know how he's related to Suckcliffe, but he's the guy who had driven the car when he first assaulted the woman with the rock in the sock. He was like an unsuspecting getaway driver.

This guy's hiding his weapons.

I wonder how they to look in there.

I don't know, great question. Maybe they just found the knife. They were like it was probably this guy. But the police got a search warrant for his home brought his wife in for questioning. This is maybe the weirdest thing I've ever read about a serial killer. When he was stripped down at the jail, he was wearing a V neck long sleeve top upside down, so he's wearing it with his legs in the sleeves and his dick just dangling out through the fucking neck hole. The weirdest thing

You might have to drop listeners. Can you draw a picture? Because I'm having a hard time even it's funny.

Robert Dean actually does a joke about this, about like putting a T shirt on upside down and like having his stick hanging out.

Oh nice, it's like putting it up, you know what I mean?

Yeah, like putting your legs into the armholes and what a free I mean, Well, what's going on? So after two days of intensive questioning, Sutcliffe just suddenly confessed that he's the ripper. Like over the next day, he calmly describes all of his attacks in detail.

He knows everything.

He knows how he did it, where he left them, what their names are like, he knows everything, every detail. And he claimed that God had told him to murder the women. And he says, quote, the women I killed were filth bastard prostitutes who were littering the streets. I was just cleaning up the place A bit, but it's like, you killed plenty of people that were not sex workers. He did deny that he killed Joan Harrison, who the hoax guy had taken credit for, and DNA actually linked

Oh, go to jail. Bang.

So the judge said Sutcliffe was beyond redemption and never wanted him to get out of prison, and he recommends it a minimum term of thirty years be served before parole could even be considered, and in twenty ten the High Court issued him with a whole life tariff, which

So who knows if that's I.

Mean, I think you would kill again if he was released, absolutely so, yeah, absolutely so.

The police got majorly dragged for this case.

It was one of the biggest investigations in British history and it was before DNA and computers. It was one hundred and fifty cops, eleven thousand interviews, like so many people were involved in this case, and the cops were honestly just fucking things up left and right. So one of the big things was it was such a huge case. No computers, everything was manual everything, all the evidence, all

The spot? Like what made him finally be like I.

Wonder if he told him something or he saw something weird at his house or something like the hammer, Like, I don't know who knows, who knows. But during one of his interviews, officers showed him a picture of the ripper's bootprint near the body, and the officer failed to notice that he was wearing the exact boots in question at the time of the interview. Is not so, s you even he was surprised it took so long to catch him, he says, quote, it was just a miracle

I do want to say, my friend Alex in the UK's she has a Jeordy accent.

Oh she does.

They're really fun.

Yeah, she's a Jeordie and so I know they have Jordi Shore. So I've known her now since like twenty twelve, let's say, and there are times where we'll be talking and she's like, you don't know what I'm saying? Do you like it is a wild accent. I've gotten to know this person. They'll send me voice so we can listen to one on the card and it's like it's whack, Yeah, so really whacky.

I love that. I hope she comes to LA soon.

So basically, remember how I told you that Marcella Claxton had a great description of him. They just didn't think she was one of his victims because she wasn't a sex worker. So there's a full description of the criminal that you could have been using putting on posters and shit, but you just didn't connect it because it didn't fit your narrative that you're pushing about.

The sex workers.

So the end of Sutcliffe's life is that he went to prison in May of eighty one. He was he was attacked pretty brutally, like two or three times in prison by other inmates, and then he was eventually an eighty four sent to Broadmoor Hospital, which is a well known mental hospital in the UK, and that was under the Mental Health Act of nineteen eighty three, so I guess they finally acknowledged that he had mental health issues.

And then he was attacked at least.

Three times there by other inmates, and he died from COVID. Honestly, I mean it might have been from something else, but he went to the hospital with COVID. He had a ton of underlying health problems and he did die in November of twenty twenty.

So that is that.

On the Yorkshire Ripper, not exactly dropping prey prayer cards, but he was saying God was telling him to do it, you know, a feeding moment. Yeah, yeah, I just can't believe I didn't.

I just oh, Jack three. I thought it was like interchange. I also thought this was old timycause Jack the Rippers. Yeah, yeah, I didn't realize this was the seventies.

Oh.

The UK in England loves to talk about rippers. They have so many rippers. There's like all different rippers. I think it's because Jack the Ripper and they all just like call them. I think anyone that does like slashing with a knife as a ripper. But yeah, it's a it's I really recommend this. I have other sources that I used to about, Like I watched this Netflix thing all four episodes, and it's really really four hours well

Oh yeah, you'll be excited.

Don't go anywhere, okay, guys. Today's guest has dabbled in a little bit of everything. He is a comedian, an actor, a podcaster, a sketch comedy legend in New York. You may remember him as Sea Otter from Wolf of Wall Street. Or you've seen him on Adult Swims, Your Pretty Faces Going to Hell, or HBO's Crashing. He's also one of the hosts of the podcast The Last Podcast on the Left and one of the owners of The Last Podcast podcast Network, but you know him as Little Stone or Mark.

I'm sorry they want you. No, No, this is great. It's good to be here.

Honestly, it's kind of funny. This is one of those experiences. I don't know if I've ever really, like quote unquote officially have spoken about it. I don't know who cares. Who cares when you're like it was like, well, yeah, I know now people can yeah, you guys care. But it was definitely it was like my second acting gig.

I know. It's like you you are booked and blast. You have a lot of credits on IMDb. You gotta scroll all the way down and you see Henry Well, you know, I remember they.

Read they read conned a lot of the web videos back in the day to be IMDb credits, which really does help pump the numbers. And that's just thankful to the web comics boom. Do you remember when when sketch comedy used to be lucrative?

Oh yeah, I'm in tons of random sketches that are listed on IMDb, like for college humor and stuff.

Oh yeah, good, go go off. That's a short. That's a short.

Yeah, definitely, sure, definitely TV pilot, Sure, yeah, take it. But yeah, it's it's cool because this was one of those.

I remember at the time period when I was this was like very it was like, you know, all the New York actors, everyone was going in for SVU. I had interviewed twice to play a pedophile and I had just didn't I didn't get over the hump.

I don't know what it was. Maybeth it.

Yeah, there's something about you. You're a little bit too happy, go lucky. I think I.

Was much bigger at the time, and maybe I just was like just straight up Gabriella Glesi's trademark too fluffy to be a pedophile at the time, like I was too cuddly, but I I remember. It's one of those days where I remember the I remember the audition, I remember getting it. It was just like a quick little thing. It happened really fast. I got it the next day. But what do you guys have questions?

What are like? What do you how what is the format of this show? Well, this is actually perfect.

So you got the sides, you went to Chelsea Piers and the next day they're like, you got you got it, congrats did you jump up and down?

Well at the time too, I don't know if if everyone was aware, but this was maybe one of the big one of the first big tragedies our generation got after nine to eleven was that we got the recession right. So at the time period, I had lost my job. You know, I lost my job and I was struggling deep. And this is back when you could really ride on employment for a long time, and I was I needed this job.

So that was the thing.

I was very thankful, but mostly it was just like, I won't have.

To go home. I don't want to go home.

Because I wasn't I was going to die there if I moved back to Florida.

How have the residuals been speaking?

Still still coming. It's one of the best. It's that I actually just got. It's that in Blue Bloods because I did a full guest spot on Blue Bloods. Still pays. I still get like it's a sack of weed every three months.

It's like sixty bars.

Yeah, I mean for me, that's not that's free money. Well technically it's like me eating alone on Postmates.

Yes.

No, I have the same thing where I took a shot. I was nine months pregnant and I did this thing on Laughing where I was like, supposed to take a shot. I took a shot and it was like the joke is that I'm pregnant, I said one line. And I get seventy five dollars every three months, and I'm like, well, there's a dinner.

You know. I love it. It means something. But you know, they don't do it like that anymore.

They don't pay out those residuals anymore because now anything you do they just bake it in. They're like, don't you remember when we paid you generously upfront? And it's like, actually I don't though, but no, at the time it's nice to have the reminder that it's there. And it is strange because that's strange. It just got such a hardcore fan base that this shit comes up again and again and again, and people play the episode a lot.

Anything.

I had a lot to do with that was Misha Barton, not at peak but after after Pete, right, so she was getting a lot of eyes.

I was working with her.

You know, we don't see you guys in the same room, but I'm sure you guys may be across paths.

Any Misha Barton's skill, she.

Did not regard me.

Okay, she was there and I was there, and she was just like because it's also the nature of the part, right, I'll even break down. I just think it's so funny because this was also in a previous true crime world where they viewed weed as this as like the devils the devil and it's just.

Like guys have bongs. Oh oh no, but like.

The concept of the bit, maybe i'll I'll just break it down.

So the bit is is that.

Misha Barton is a struggling young woman who's pregnant that becomes a sex worker, and this is all about kind of her her journey right, and somewhere in this world they believe the two young college men that what they'd like to do is they rip bongs and then they talk to each other and say, hey, what do you want to do this afternoon? Why don't we tag team a sex worker together? Like that is the single. Just the idea of using the phone, like cause, like you, hady,

Oh my god, that's so fucking true.

Yes, that's so true.

It's like I didn't even think it would more likely be bros that were doing that kind of thing than like stoner dumbasses.

It's just with yeah, cocaine, cocaine, Yeah yeah, but guys, cocaine hurts the penis too sure, It's just it's one of those where, like most of you just sit in silence. But it was really funny. But I think the nature of it. So then it was the idea that we tag teamed. We both had sex with Misha Barton, who was a pregnant sex worker, and then she almost had a miscaracter.

And then not only that, but you thought she left, but you didn't just still packed up, passed.

Out in your bed with her water broken.

Here's a pregnant woman in your apartment. Okay, it's not It's just.

Not gonna happen like this, but you know, in the end, it has one of my favorite lines from Christopher Maloney that I do love it.

We're being like, He's like, Sue, what do you guys? So what do you guys up to today? And it's like just studying and just yeah, for your degree in stupidity. Yes, yes, nailed us.

But as Henry the actor, do you think these are just bumble stoners or bad bad boys?

I think that it was a different world.

I think that they were in my truly I just think and the way we truly played it is that they were very, very stupid and it was just a weird lark that these two men went on, because it's the idea is that we were just sort of like a stepping stone, kind of Red Herring style, like we were just obstacles to Misha Barton's journey.

Yeah, and so we I think of you.

And the guy I was in it with was super Jazz because he was about to quit his he was selling He sold cars for a living and then he booked that job and he's like, I'm thinking about getting in a modeling and then I don't think he ever worked ever again.

And I checked his IMG. I checked his IMDb.

He has like two credits ever, and I was like, oh no, don't quit the car job.

It's because you made just sell the cars. Just sell the cars. Already.

Things are doing very well for you, and the idea that you're thinking about going into modeling means they're also probably fairly getting sex, or you think you think that's the thing. Also with the idea of transitioning to modeling is a very funny.

Idea, well speaking.

So you know, you're obviously with your podcast, like you guys research fucked up shit, horrible stuff, weird stuff. We on this podcast talk about like being haunted. Are there things that you've researched that haunt you and have ruined your brain?

You know there are things that I mean, you'd say there are there specific things, not as much anymore. Like when we do the alien episodes, I do tend to have nightmares. I'll have abduction dreams and they really freak me out.

You canna ask.

Jared about that because also Jared recently, if you could tell him, he gave me a bunch of UFO documentaries and we were hanging out in Vancouver one time, and I've been going through them and they're actually really great.

So I'm gonna rip them and send them to him as well. He'll love it all right, all of it. But yeah, get away.

But then you know, like then I say, like, oh, it doesn't really affect me. But then you know, I have cameras all over my house.

I wake up in the night.

I literally this is an habitual behavior I have where I wake up in the middle of the night and I check all the doors and locks in my home.

I look out the windows, I look I do a lot of that.

I live a high paranoia lifestyle, and that's really maybe I feel like that these two my life and that behavior are probably connected to each other. Yeah, but I don't know it we just cause then you know, I'm really bad insomnia, Like I can go up to three weeks at a time no sleep, like literally maybe forty five minutes of sleep at night. And then I talk to my therapist, which is really hilarious, like trying to get to the bottom of it.

And the first question they always ask is like what media do you consume?

And it's just like nothing, literally nothing but absolute mayhem, I know.

And then sometimes you're just like why do I feel a little bit down, Like what's up with me today? And it's like, oh, I've just been researching child rape all day, That's all.

That's it.

And then like you know, because Natalie, my wife, Natalie has a show about missing women on the Last podcast network someplace underneath, and it's like the safe so on one end of the house, it's all just.

Been like when they found her, the only thing left was her heel bone.

And then like to inside here where it's just like me deep into like mk ultra or something in this house, and then you wonder why Wendy had our dog has stomach issues it's just te can.

Wendy is processing all of this information.

Yes, in one go, and she's just like or not.

But is there ever like has there ever been like a true crime that you covered that like really blew your mind? Like I we just covered the one that abducted in plaining sight is based.

On and we were just like, what the fuck?

Like ru ruined the sanctuary of my marriage?

He got got dude, he had sex with the whole family. Man, that's crazy. Oh he's crazy. That's that's my reaction too, Like you crazy man? The last time I really had one.

It's kind of funny because the last podcast, I think it's about details that come up that are very specific and strange that like stick with me. Where like we did this long story, we did a coverage of the Yorkshire ripper Peter Sutcliffe.

Oh we just did it. Oh wait, we did it for this.

Oh you did great.

Fire right now, I am the number must be shooting must be incredible. It's crazy. But he one detail that they lived laid out. Because the thing about what we we criticized crime media media cause they do two things. They both make it highly like sinister and make them sound like villains right, like, they do this thing they make them sound like Boogeyman's that you can never see coming because they want to make the audience afraid and feel that they're steaks. Right.

But then on the other.

Hand, they leave out many, many details of the crime for what they believed to be the quote unquote safety of their audience.

I think or they think that people can't handle it.

But the problem is is that without going into true detail, like you really just don't know what happened. You just know the media representation of the thing, but you don't know actually the events that took place. And one thing about the Yorkshire Ripper that was a never and none of the true crime coverage was that he used to do this thing where he used to wear a sweater ass pants so that he can We talked about it access to his penis.

We talked about this.

He would wear a sweater as pants also so that when he kneeled down next to his victims, his knees would be on like the elbow pads.

And support him.

Yes, yes, it's a very bad you know, but these are the things that stick with me.

It's the little like qualities.

Well, yeah, when you said heel bone like that made me laugh, like a heel bone.

Yes, it's well, it's it's it's the specifics, it's like.

And then with last podcast and left that's why we go super exhaustive because we believe that the humor is in all of the human stuff. It's all in that. It's because in the end, they're not monsters. They're just they are fucked up people and so and they come from some place and so that's how it's kind of like, you know, as true crime grules, it's.

More like how did they why are they like that?

But I'm normal, even though we all kind of start in the same fucked up place in America.

But I wanted to say, sometimes all of this knowledge does help, because I thought someone was uncaught like shady, and I didn't like it, and I asked someone to stay with me, and then they pulled out a knife on him and I was like, like, I got out of there, you know.

So sometimes you're right.

I think following your gut is the most in sinctual thing on the face of the planet, because.

Oh, you're all you are. If you're wrong, all you are is awkward, and then you just move on. You just move on to the next time.

And what I also what's nice about almost getting to forty is truly understanding that nobody gives a single fuck what you're doing over there. They just don't even they're not even thinking about you. They're just thinking about themselves. They're just everybody's wrapped up into their own bullshit. So in the end, I also learned the more I'm awkward and strange to people, then you get labeled eccentric, and.

Then you get a lot of a lot of you know, social grace. People give you a lot of room.

Yeah.

Oh that Henry, That Henry, he's just got problem tune.

Yeah.

Wait, I wanted to ask you. I wanted to ask you because when I.

First texted you about doing this podcast, you wrote, yes, I can't wait to tell you about working with Christopher Mellon's And I didn't know if that was a typo or that's what you call.

Him, mister Melons again I have.

We didn't have a lot of conversations, but at the time he was working on this one man show what it was called. He was doing this show on Broadway or off Broadway where it was a one man show and he played was playing like an Iraq war veteran.

I might be wrong, but I be he was something like that.

But he was playing a military He was playing a military guy, and so the whole time he was just talking about a soldier's life, what these guys went through an Iraq all this kind of shit. But doing the audience can't see it, but I'll show you. It's this deep lunge move where he was, he was.

Standing in front of me.

They exactly, they know exactly what you're doing because there's a lot of photographic evidence of that.

Yes, he's lunging everybody.

Doing the lunch right, and because honestly, he is set up on his behind all right, his butt is like sculpted and you can see through and you know it's sculpted because you could see through khakis and if.

You have them through like cop khakis.

Yeah, if you could see butt through khakis, you are you got your krack a lack him.

That's the old.

Term from what I've heard, and he is, uh, but he is like that. But that was that was all the time. So but the thing was, again, there was such a system that it needed to be an eight hour day, like that's what they do. So this was back in the day when they used to have the they.

Used to have a job. Maybe they still do. Did they still have the giant compounds in Jersey? I think so.

I think they still tape some stuff out there. That's apparently where all like the jail and interrogation stuff happens.

That's where the core room is. And so we went all the way out there.

They had built the set on the compounds and that's where we I had went out there.

But man, it's fucking nuts.

It's just like they they are cycling through because they'll shoot an episode in three days.

Like at the time too.

When they were real well oiled machines, so you did not have a lot of time. You had I had two takes. It had to be done, and you just did it. All of the New York shows were like that back in the day where they were very It was very frightening. And I don't I didn't understand what

In that set.

Yeah, and did Maloney aka Mellons tried to like get that power from her or he allowed like.

He was doing his own name, Mariska's in charge. He went off and he was literally just stretching. Yeah, he was just stretching, and then he was like, let's go, let's get it. Gun, come on, let's do it. And then he would you know, Like it's also the thing as a young actor too, when you're around all these very experienced people and then.

Like they just told me what to do and where to stand.

They were like the directors was like trying to say stuff, but Maloney literally was like you're gonna stand right here, We're gonna do this.

We're flipping around like they just do.

They just told me what was gonna happen, and I was just like whatever you need.

No, this is so funny because like you you're saying, it was really fast and it was like your second thing you ever did, but you remember it.

Really well, like you were meant a lot of stuff from it.

It meant a lot to me, like it really like it was because it was a big deal and I really for especially the time because like I was told at the time, I was like this, now you're a New York actor, like you know, now, now you're in the system. Now you're gonna do all of these And I did do a bunch of procedurals then in a row. It does work like that, and uh, it got me.

Well, since you were that excited, are you, like, were you excited about crafty the.

Snack that was back in the day when I used to have to literally take food home. I used to go and take food off the craft table and put it into a bag and leave with it, like when I did my first After that I had done my first pilot and I was so so so broke, my manager had to pay my sag fees like he did it for me, which was actually incredibly sweet.

But also I booked Ken. Yes, yeah, then yeah.

He paid for my sag fee because but again a check was coming. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's easy to do when he could just take it out of the thing, right. But yeah, I was on set like and they're all like, we're gonna go out to this fancy bar in Midtown, and I was just like lie and be like I got a show tonight, and I would just like fill my bag with stuff from Crafty and take it home. So it's like whatever wasn't tied down. But that was also then what happened was like I was also when

It was fun.

I I've actually thought about doing that before, just to see if I could, not like because I'm like.

Oh, I really need to snack.

I'm always like I wonder if I can act like I'm part of this enough that I'm like, oh, hey, I'm just grabbing something for yeah, stage two, I'll be you.

Know, like little All you need is to connect hit earphones like it is, and then it's still looking everywhere. It's ugh, ugh, they need this now you know, talent's waiting now like you act like you're in a huge hurry.

Do you cause it's life or death? Cara, it's death?

I know. Do you get texted like every time this episode comes on? Because I feel like this is like on all the time. I remember when you were first on it because this came out when I was like just first dating Jared and you guys were friends and I was like this guy, you know, Henry's on it on my favorite show, Like that's so funny. Like, but

Every once in a while, it'll be like a listener that for last podcasts in a laughter, somebody who just like they'll just randomly like be like is this you? And then I have to be like, yes, I did use to have beautiful hair, very thick hair, but yeah, I mean, honestly, now with that thing is that mostly it's just played so often every once in a while, like my mom if I haven't texted my mom back yet in like O for a period of time or whatever, like I just like, you know, slips my mind. She'll like,

Could see you on the television. It's been like Jesus Christ, God, parents.

Are so fucking desperate, it's ridiculous.

They're so that's like, I'm do you watch yourself? I hate me? Okay, So no, I try not to as much as humanly possible. I try to avoid me.

So I have kind of a fun game moment. It's not about SVU, but I saw you and I love the two thousand. Yeah that was yeah, And I'm wondering if there was an I love the twenty twenties and our life is kind of weird now, But is there anything you think you would include or want to include, or something I really love about the twenty tens to the twenty twenties to present that you would be like, oh, this will be talking to about Oh.

Gosh, this is a lot people aside from your role on SBU that would go on the time capsule of the odds.

If you want to be, I'll choose a completely neutral thing, which I do think is one of the only good things that did come out of this time period was the rise of the seamless app. And it's like, I love that answer. I want to say thank you, thank you to Seamless. And I know it's a terrible company. Everyone's mad at any com right, So yes, everybody's mad, but still thank you for the years.

Food delivery, Yeah.

Food delivery as a concept via not phone was such a good transition for this country. It should have saved us. It should have I should have done something, but it didn't.

It did.

That's a really good answer because because.

Truthfully, as I think that that, I probably would have drove. I would either done Uber or delivery app. Definitely when I was coming up, I definitely would have done it instead of we had office jobs, Kara, I had an office job.

Someone had to fucking hire me.

And then I think about that all the time, because no, I hire people.

I do, right, I hire people for the network. And now I know I used to be.

So proud to go ahead and be like and guess what, I'm also a comedian, and now I know you never hire a comedian ever to do any job that's not be.

A waiter, right, they can't handle it.

They're not there, they're not emotionally there, you know, or receptionist or that's a great one. That's a great one because again you can get because the one thing I was iced about the office job back in the day because we did sketch comedy thousands of dollars of copies. Oh yeah, thousands of dollars, like all of the office supplies.

We had highlighters, we had buyers posts, yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

I remember when we first did the Fringe in New York and it was like I was printing out full like long sheet posters just like then people show it up just being like why there's.

No color ink in this anymore?

And be like I don't know, I don't no, oh, and I'm married to such a office supply fevery pussy like he won't do it, and like when he was looking at Cordon, I'd be like, we need paper, can you just grab some at Cordon And he'd be like, I'm not going to do that, and I'd be like, what this job bring us some supplies?

This is your family, this is your family. You chose James over my family. This is your family?

All right?

What if this was World War three?

Oh my, Henry, I'm being serious.

We've had so many people right to us and be like, you've got to have Henry on, and it's like you're great in this episode. But it's not like you're They don't write and say get me Sha Martin. They write and say get Henry Zebrowski for this episode.

We have a lot of crossover.

Is she easy to talk to? Like, do you think you could get could you get me? She wort? And you should? You should? I don't think we should. We didn't try.

We went for you, We went for you, We didn't try for her.

Also, I'm talking.

This has also been very unique and fun and you have a lot to say. It's like a Greg I've I've been entertained and that's exciting.

All I do is talk all day long.

Well, Also, we kind of talked about how she's not that good in the episode, so it would have been weird to have her on.

We would have had to cut that out. She's she's not an episode.

She's acting for two.

First of all, all right, because she is fake pregnant and she just was Oh god, just oh, she must not have been happy.

I don't know.

Well, I think she thought she was gonna be a bigger star.

Maybe this was like she thought it was beneath her because she was a teen icon, like I have no idea. But she bombed. Yeah, she couldn't fall, like she wasn't great at it. And then it seems like by your body lang, which she was a coun she.

She just was in.

She was indifferent.

Yeah, she was probably like let's get this over with.

Yeah, believe me, I understand because but there was also a part of me it was been like this is a big deal for me, like I wanted to be like, I'm very excited about our work together today because I didn't know who she was.

I know, but we've talked to Oscar winners who are excited to be on it. So it's also like being cynical. I'm just against cynicism. I think you should enjoy everything, and so to me, it's like that's disappointing, but it shows in her performance that she didn't care.

So I remember I was in the first season of Girls and I remember like man Adam Driver was like, it's like we need to rehearse and so it's like I went ahead to go with him and hang out with you, Like he really gave a ship and he was just there.

It was really weird.

Now he's like a superstar obviously, but it's the thing at the time period, you don't know.

That's one of my favorite shows. Who Were You? In Season one?

I was the fat dude that did the improvise play with Adam Driver that was adding adding.

To it. Oh my god, cool, very dumb. It was fun.

I love to do it. But it shows the difference where like Nisha Barton wouldn't want to be involved and then all you have a look at this other show where it was like they were all working very very hard.

Yeah, well, and it show. I mean, it kind of shows with what she's up to now. Not to talk too much shit, but you know we are.

This is the most shit we've ever talked outside of like a murderer rapist.

Yeah, you know, we're really dragging.

I'm also not including myself because she was neutral to me and I barely understand who she is as a person.

Yeah no, and I'm not found on her other stuff.

Any tidbits. I know you weren't in with Iced Tea did you see him walk around? Was a Coco sighting.

No, we were very much so separated. He wasn't there. And they I think they really do.

It's like they have Chris and and they have like those days and then they have his days and then they separate all the schedules because you really are just banging them out.

Uh. Then they just do it. They block shoot it just boom boom boom. So I didn't see him.

Yeah, but again, you know, I will say Chris Maloney and Mariska they took their times to like say hello. I know it sounds like that's ridiculous, but in terms of doing day playing, like they spoke to us as if we had blood in us, which was very nice, you know what I mean, Like we weren't house plants, so that was very very nice.

Yeah, we hear that a lot like that.

They make it make it nice for the people that are coming and even though like some people are just there for a day or two.

Obviously loved the show, like it's like one of those things that they were very investing.

So obviously besides your hit podcast, Last Podcast on the Left, your podcast network, the Last podcast Network, what do you have anything coming up that you want people to our listeners to check out or anything like that if you have some crossover. But this might be a new audience that's just meeting Henry Szabowski. So what should they check out? They're gonna fall in love. Get ready for compliment.

I need them. I need them every day. Go your pretty face to going to hell. My show for adult swims now on HBO Max. More people have seen it since get on HBO Max, since before it was on the channel that.

Was so funny with an old improv friend of mine.

Craig Wowen is your co star and I love I can highly recommend you're pretty much ill.

I deeply missed my show and then I uh, Last Comic Book on the Left.

I'm currently selling an anthology comic book that me and Marcus edited, uh and we are.

It's awesome.

It's called Last Book on the Left and it's out there through Z two Comics dot com. We're about to sell our second We sold out our our first runs. We're about to do a second volume.

So we love it so well. Yeah, check it out if you're into comic books.

Amazing, Henry, thank you so much for talking to us. You're one with us a blastner.

Thank you for having me.

I'm obsessed with him and I want him to be a guest every week. Like I understand why his podcast is so popular and why he was so highly requested.

Yeah, he's just so good at talking. I've never met it.

Yeah.

I think that was the most quiet I've ever been in an interview. I was just amazed. He was just like yeah, I felt so happy.

Yeah.

And I love when we talk to someone that has kind of like a smaller part but has so much info and like so much much to say, you know, like hell, because it meant obviously meant.

A lot to him.

Yeah, and I love that, you know, speaking from someone that just got kicked by a horse in the movie Nope.

Which a lot of people are noticing you. We're getting messages, I know.

Joke.

Quazala sent me a text with the gift of Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the TV like he knows someone you know that gift.

Yeah, so I really was. But then he goes, was there more to it? And they cut you out? I go, Nope, that was it, Thank you so much.

Nope, Nope, please see the name of the movie.

Nope. I also couldn't believe that Henry brought up the Yorkshire Ripper without right now connecting.

I don't think he knew it was like the crime for today, so so so wild.

What I want to I want to hang out.

I want to know aliens, and it's nice to know someone else is having a lot of residual effects from reading scary stories all the time. Yes, for sure, for sure, not that I want other people to suffer, but yeah, No, he's awesome.

I love him and his whole group of friends. They're just all fun, awesome, like positive people.

And we learned what we always learn.

Police are trash, men are trash, and sex workers are not considered people.

Yeah yeah, I mean I really would encourage people to see to watch what I watched on Netflix, the Yorkshire Ripper, like the Ripper series that I watched, just like even if you started episode like three where the women start to really talk about how they were, like no one was listening to us, like we were figuring out like

Also, were you nervous when Henry was going to give a clue that you didn't have it or something like when he said it was the dickal I was happy. I was like, what the fuck is he gonna say? What is he gonna say, poke a hole through our work?

I know. I was like, oh God, I hope I have what he has, but yeah, the fucking But I didn't know if it was so his dick could be accessible, because I don't think he ever sexually assaulted anyone as far as I know, So I thought it was literally for the knee pads on the elbows. But I'm sure I'll hear from some listeners when they.

Yeah, I guess this is a long time ago, because I was like, get some volleyball knee pads, like you like, get some roller blade hard kneepads.

Like in the seventies, he like invents me pads for rollerblades. Yeah, safety wasn't huge in the seventies. You could stick as Oh my god, there's a comic who drove here and I got into their car.

Three rows of seats. I love it.

It felt so good the moment I walked in, I go, now, this is living, this is living. I mean to fit that many people in a sexy, sexy jeep. I loved it. And they had like a special sound system. No one in our lives really is like that into sound. I think, well, you know our sound people. It was like, do you know this Macintosh speakers sound system? It was like they bought it for the sounds.

Whatever.

I just I haven't been in three rows of seats in a while and it felt nice.

Yeah.

I feel like, eventually, when my kids are older, I'm gonna have to invest in a third row because like that, you bring their friends around.

Yeah, I'm about to.

Say, you know, you're gonna take her to like rugby practice with all her friends. I love that You've already pigeonholed Rosie as a full rugby playing lesbian.

She could be anywhere she.

Wants on the spectrum, but there's no way she's not gonna want to run and bump into people and shut them to the ground.

Absolutely. I played rugby for a semester and then I was like, this is too rough. I just wanted to drink but that is so fucking funny. I'm gonna be taking rug Rosie to rugbyice in.

My third row.

My favorite was for swim team.

Like in the summer, we would swim at like, you know, six in the morning at the outdoor pools.

But once well, now you.

Know me, I am a little bit, but I would immediately get in the car and stop to start talking, and people would have to be like, shut up, shut up, it's six, We're done. Like the moms would be like, shut your fucking it's quiet.

Time now, Lisa jash Rosie. That's fucking Rosie in the car.

I'm like, okay, I'm gonna turn on some music and we're not gonna talk for a little bit.

And then she just talks over the music. It's like crazy, No, it's not crazy, it's you. She's three you, it's it's three yeah, lucky, yeah nice.

Try to get out of that. No.

I tell people all the time I go, my daughter's driving me insane, and she is me and I am reaping what I sew.

Everything is coming back to me.

It's karma.

She is me.

Wow.

My sister always used to judge my parents and how they like parented me. And then she got a daughter that's similar to me, and it has to be a little more lenient than she thought.

Yeah, well I got some I was like drilling your sister for parenting tips when I met her in Chicago, I was like, how do you get into that your kids love you so much?

Like, well, it's also all casual and with experience and it. You know, it wasn't like she immediately started like that, but then I like her things. She goes, if it's not gonna matter tomorrow or in a week, I'm not going to care about it. Yeah, and that's that she's like, and she goes, I want them to remember the way I make them feel. And she's an example of like someone she saw a parent like their kid came and was like, oh, why are you wearing that again? Instead

What did you do?

You know?

Yeah, so it's like it's just hippy dippy shit. I guess no, it no, but okay.

But without getting into a full episode of the Parent Footprint podcast, which I've already been a guest shot. Like it's it's what I try to talk about on there a little bit. It's like I feel like sometimes I get too bogged down in like the detail, like don't let her get away with too much stuff, or she's going to turn into like a brat, you know, and it's like, yeah, is it gonna matter tomorrow?

Is it gonna matter next week?

Like just I'm trying to like embrace fun mom a little bit more and be like, let's just not like totally like you know, let her run run the place, but like a little bit less that doesn't match with that you can't wear that, you know, like just now.

This one therapist I talked to for was like, you just have to love the shit out of your kid for who they are because the world is you know, so you have less to yeah reprogram when you're an adult. Yeah, I think we talked about this, listen, pat of thing's hard and no matter what you do, your kids will hate you, So deal with it.

Can't wait.

She's gonna hate me in a third row though, she's gonna hate me from the third row. All right, let's get into what would Sister Peg do our weekly segment where we give you guys a organization, a book, a link, a doc, something that you can go to to get more information or possibly donate. Concerning what we talked about today, I was sort of inspired by like how like what

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