Rhodium Nights w/ Brooke Smith

Okay, guys, and a little announcement about our tour. We have some good news and some bad news. The good news is we will be at Austin, Texas on nine to twenty seven. We're really excited to do a live show for you guys at Capcity Comedy Club there, So if you live in and around Austin, please come see us. That's messed uplive dot com for tickets. Other good news is that one of us has had a very fun professional opportunity pop up and it's awesome and we're going

Have your tickets.

Well, you'll definitely get refunded if you can't make it to the new show date, but or your ticket will be honored at the next show dates. So we will get you those new show dates as soon as possible.

We're so sorry.

We were so excited to see you guys in Dallas and Houston, but you know, scheduling stuff happens, and we are super excited to reschedule.

Them and come to you guys eventually, so we will let you.

Know of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories done done. Hello, It's that's messed up an SVU podcast.

I'm Lie as a.

Tragger and I'm Kara Klank and you guys, hopefully by now know what we do. We are just gonna talk about an SVU episode, break down the true crime it was based on, and chat with an amazing guest from the show, and then at the beginning we just sort of chat and catch up because Lisa has abandoned me is currently living across the country just to get away from for me, honestly, and it hurts.

We are in the time machine.

But today, while you're listening to this is Kara's birthday.

And also I will be.

Seeing you in New York at that weekend, so we're all over, we're traveling, we're making it. There's a big surprise actually happening this weekend, so stay tuned for that bitches, you know what I'm talking about.

Don't tell them what big surprise this weekend? What are you talking about? Wait, I'm gonna type it in the chat. This is insane that you're not what's the big surprise? You know?

My mind is made out of what are you talking You're gonna feel so stupid when you read it that weekend. Sorry, I thought you met like this weekend. We're in the time machine. I'm very confused.

Okay, listen, but I am coming home.

I will be home tomorrow and uh yeah, I'll come get my car.

Maybe let's go get breakfast burritos. Okay, yeah, when.

You come get your car, yeahs burritos and one other thing. Oh, while we're talking about just like jet setting, I'll just get it out of the way. I gotta keep plugging. Our tour, guys, we are going on tour. We're so excited to see all of you guys. Thank you for telling us when you buy tickets. It makes me feel good when every time someone says I just bought a ticket for X show, it really does lift my spirits. We're going to be in Austin on September twenty seventh.

One show.

So I did bring a skeleton hand, and then I've forgotten it every show, So stay tuned if I bring up Oh my God, it's going.

To be spooky season when we're on the road, you got to bring that skeleton handback out.

Girl.

I cannot wait for spooky season. Yeah, I cannot wait like it. I'm gonna get a Halloween tattoo for sure this year. Okay, great, that's a great idea. Let Rosie help you pick it out.

She'll be obsessed. Yes, guess what she wants to be for Halloween? A bat? Oh good? Simple? Easy?

Ye?

And today, time machine, Today is your birthday as they're listening today while we record, is the first day of you know, preschool again for oh.

Yes, Rosie went back to school.

It's not a big thing because she went to the summer program in the summer, so she wasn't like she doesn't know anything. But she is meeting a new teacher, so she's excited.

But you know, well, no, in the little pictures, they look so much older.

It's she's so funny, like because I go, okay, do a smile. She hates smiling for pictures, but she will do it for me. And then I go okay, now do a goofy one and that's where she really gets. She really shines, you know. But there were bats on it, so she's really into her batmoment. Yeah, Jared drew those bats on there for her. Here's the thing she's obsessed with the show PJ Masks, there's a character named Catboy. She is obsessed with Catboy. He wears a blue outfit obsessed,

So we've sort of talked about it, and she keeps saying, I want.

To be bat Boy for Halloween, and I keep being like, there is no Batboy costume. I guess I could get her a cat Boy costume, and like, so what about That's not what she's into. She likes Catboy with wings and then bat Boy, and she made it up.

Yeah, buy a normal and put some wings on it. Yeah, maybe I'll buy a cat Boy and put wings on it. We'll see.

We've been looking at Amazon together and some other resources for Halloween costumes, but we will see what she does, cause.

Yeah, I don't know. I would liked to turn a look.

I mean I did run in to a celebrity, I would say, and their girlfriend said that they do a giant Halloween party every year and we did follow each other and they were like, we'll invite you, but it was drunk and like in May, so who knows, but I will be following up.

But I really hope I get to go to this cool person's party. I really hope so too, And I can't wait for you to tell me who that is.

But we also did get invited to a wedding together, which I thought was cute, and we do have to say we can't go, but that was fun to have. Aliza Kara Well, because you know, I've been, there's been. You know, I'm on the internet a lot. I'm on the internet and there is just there's like a lot of chats now of like plus ones and who do you like bring someone in not? And it's like, yeah, why is a boyfriend of one year more valuable if then you bring your best friend of ten years?

You know what I mean.

It's like, if you can afford it, I think people should be able to bring whoever the fuck they want to the wedding.

Yeah.

I let my friend bring a date to my wedding who was her friend who I was friends who I knew too, And was like, yeah, bringer.

Because you're a girls girl. Yeah. But here's the thing.

I also am not really down with somebody bringing someone that they're like just hooking up with if I'm paying like a lot of money for it.

I on Sex and the City that was like so weird.

When Miranda was like, yeah, I'll bring this speed dating guy will earn it to this wedding, I'm like, itause your best friend's wedding.

You want to entertain a strange man. I would so much rather go alone. I'm going to a wedding alone in three weeks in Boston. Wait, but can we can say whose wedding we got invited to together?

We got invited to a really fun couple.

Chelsea Davonta's Chelsea Davantes is a great writer who has an amazing podcast that les and I have been on called Celebrity book Club. She is marrying Yaser Lester, an amazingly funny comic and writer and actor, and their wedding is just going to be like I'm actually almost relieved that I don't have to find an outfit for it, because I just think the outfits are going to be so over the top. And oh yeah, so the theme

Like they're over the top.

Like Chelsea makes her own shoes and like adds like little things to him and shit like that, Like they are over the top. And I've been following her, like on her stories, I've been following her wedding dress selection journey, and it's I just can't wait to see what the final product is. And I just was honored that we were invited and it was hilarious to get anything that said Karen Clinken Lea's a trigger on the front of the envelope, like we were invited as a couple.

Yeah, and I loved it, loved it.

Unfortunately, we're going to be on tour with you guys, and so we won't be able to go to the wedding because we I think we'll be in Alabama. Yeah, we give up everything for you guys. Yeah, Huntsville, Alabama.

Come see us. Do people listen to us there? Please come see us. Oh wait, wait, we're gonna tell me about some Twitter thing. Oh.

I was just gonna say because we were going to talk about Housewives really quickly because the Salt Lake City trailer just dropped and it's got all this like juicy gen Shaw stuff in it. And I was recently on Amy Phillips Queen Amy Phillips. She's one of the one of the best Housewives imitators, Housewives experts.

She's got a show on radio, Andy Lison.

I go on it, and I was just on and she told me about this account called the Bravo Docket.

It's also in a podcast, and they are.

Two lawyers that analyze all the legal shit on Housewives.

Wow.

And I thought you would appreciate that because because you're like, the Housewives has become true crime, you know, we talk about that all the time.

Yeah, I mean also, okay, obviously Jenshaw will be going to Jill for fifteen years. But the additional thing of that Salt Lake City trailer was Heather Gay has a fully black eye.

Someone punched her in the face, So or do you think it's back else? Do you get that?

Because she took off her glasses like look, I could just see the show teasing.

It and it being like, I fucking a huge Okay, then what shut her eye fully closed a baseball bat.

What like running into a like a plank of wood where you're getting your new a new beauty lab made or something like.

I don't know.

I just have a feeling. It's not from a person. I have a feeling. It's just a feeling. I'd like to hope. I'd like to hope. It's like, I know, it's not ever real. When someone's like I ran into a door, it's like, you know, that looks like it's from a punch. But yeah, it's an intriguing trailer. It looks really good.

Wait, so Southern Charm.

I have been watching and it is uncomfortable and bad and there's such bad people.

But yet I think I thought why I had to stop. I had to stop. That stops I was.

I was late to join and then I stopped. But I did dabble for a few seasons. So it's like you're just where I was a couple like a year or two ago. And then I think when it got too plantation y, and I was like I gotta go, like I can't. It's just sad to watch Catherine. She's really a mess, Like yeah, but overall it.

Just in jet like I calling someone racist, is not that Like if you say, like that's racist, it's like you can't throw that.

And it's like, but you are racist. What are you talking about?

Your family owned slaves and you will not admit it, like your family owned people, and you won't even do enough to like actually learn what is happening and what the truth of everything is, and you're offended you might be called a racist. It's like, even if you're not a racist, you are. We're part of the system. And I just hate how they don't listen or want to learn anything when it's like your family did this, because I know a lot of people should be like we

Like I know, I haven't I haven't watched it in a minute, so I don't even know who's still on. But like it's like Thomas Ravenel, like those people like Whitney, I don't know, they seem like bad.

I don't know it's bad. I shouldn't watch it. But now that page isn't it's it is really tough.

You know.

I was at our friend Allison's house. Mm hmm, she's such an adult. I mean a totalini pesto pasta salad, a roast chicken salad with pormage, not fresh, not like like I couldn't believe it made an olive oil.

Cake with fresh whipped cream.

It's like a delicious whole foods like foody gall It's great.

I literally have you know what I brought Reese's peanut butter cups and little one are the chips uts chips. That's why I brought.

I think Alison loves uts chips, and I will confirm she loves us chips.

That's actually a perfect thing to bring.

But cocktail weenies. I brought frozen kosher cocktail weenies. This bitch is whipping up salads. I keep interrupting. I'm sorry.

It was just I love that.

That's very funny too, that you brought the wienies, like, not with the bread around the outside, just the naked weenies.

No no, no, no, no, no, the whole thing. They had the okay, they had their outfits. I thought it brought like a bag of the wienies. No, no, they okay, No.

All I was gonna say is I literally texted Alison yesterday and I go, I need your help. I need to know how to make a good salad at home. Like I don't understand. I buy all the stuff and I'm like, this is all the stuff I like in a salad at Sweet Green, and then it doesn't taste good. And I know Sweet Green like salts their salads and whatever, that's a different thing. It's just why can I not make it even haste the way a side salad at a restaurant tastes like it's not.

Did she help you? What's this? She gave me some good tips? She gave me some good tips.

Well, she said, a good well, she said, it starts with the kind of greens that you like.

So like, I gotta, I gotta.

I think I gotta not get my greens at Trader Joe's. I love Trader Joe's, but I think I gotta get my greens someone.

An expensive, nice crunchy lea.

Yes, And then she said for her, she thinks it's all about the dressing, so she grates. She grates garlic into her dressing, which is usually I think just a little bit of like oil and and uh maybe even vinegar, but maybe not.

I gotta make cretons. She made sesame croutons.

I've made a creuton before for one of these meal kits.

But like, yeah, it's like wild, like she is really got, she's got going on with the oh, come on over, and then just there's a beautiful like spread, like a beautiful Instagram level sharcuterie platter.

You know, that's her vibe.

So she after we went to her last show, she showed me a cool restaurant called Commerce In and I went again this past week with a few friends and I wanted to get a gift certificate for some friends.

I asked, they don't do gift certificates. So then our other.

Friend went, oh, can you maybe just call and like buy a bottle for someone?

And they go, we don't have a phone. Oh a lot of restaurants don't have phones anymore. That's sexy. No phone, No get certificates.

Okay, I tried to get I tried to change something with a restaurant, and like their website was like just email us, like we don't have a phone, Like they're just not here to talk to you anymore.

Now they're just here to whip up, you know, delicious salads.

I gotta try that place. Maybe we'll go there after our meetup in New York. Anyway, guys, we're going to start the episode That's Messed Up. That's messed Up. Live dot Com has all people keep going no Philly, and I'm like, Philly's on there, or like they'll be like, are you coming to Boston?

It's on there. Check out all of our dates.

They're all up at That's messed Up live dot Com And uh yeah.

And I met a lot of our great listeners while I was here in New York bopping around. They came out to the show. So thanks. I enjoyed meeting all of you. Thanks for complimenting me.

Yeah, all right, guys, let's dive into Oh it's a killer episode, so good. All right, all right, it's time to do Roodium Nights, Season thirteen, episode twenty three.

I don't know why this is called roodium Nights.

I looked it up and I found some Reddit conversation of a bunch of people that were also confused and were some people were trying to do math about like the chemical compound of rodium is the number of letters that are in this title, and I was like, I think you guys are overthinking it. But rodium's like an element that's very shiny and dark or something, So maybe that's alluding to the underworld of high class sex rings.

She's just like staring and she's like barely in this. I know. It's weird.

Like I don't know who's picking the thumbnails over at Hulu, but maybe they thought that well.

Man's annoying.

Like this is the beginning of a series of three episodes spanning two seasons. Hulu combines things fucks the numbers, it's.

Like so obnoxious.

Yeah, it's like we don't need to see it the way that it aired on NBC at the time. They're all separate episodes.

Just put them. It's so weird.

But we open on a wild party and you can tell because they immediately show two women kissing.

Woo woo. This party's wild.

We're seeing some shots through the POV of a video camera, so someone's clearly like making a documentary about this party. And then I don't understand really why at all these wild parties there's always somebody like fully videotaping it, like outside of cell phone video, Like I don't understand, Like if you're.

Well, the criminals like it.

You know, this wouldn't be the first rape situation that caught on tape.

Yeah, yeah, that there's it always. I mean it also like allows the cops later to have a full breakdown of everything that happened where they can zoom in and say that person went there, that person went there.

So I get why we do it as a TV device, But.

It's always like is that guy gonna get to enjoy the party or is he just like videography like videographers.

It's strange anyway.

So pretty much every woman at this entire party is in lingerie. Everybody's dancing, they're grinding. I see a man being led on a leash. There's cigars, there's coke on mirrors. This is a time. And now we are out on the balcony and there are these finance douche bros talking about like the market and the economy and like bailing out Greece in Italy and nobody cares, and one of the girls that is with them looks super fucked up. She's like slumped over trying to get champagne. She's like

Party is still raging, and the douche guy.

Goes, oh, you're with the third My dad speaks really highly of your captain.

So immediately we don't know who this douche guy.

Is, but we know that he is super connected with the cops somehow. And they're like, I just like, in what universe is the dad talking about like which captains are killer to his son, I don't get it. Like over dinner, they're like, you know who rocks the captain of the third Yeah, I see, you get it. So yes, it's it's nuts. But we get an immediate idea who this guy is. And they say there's been a new noise complaint and my little dougie howser guy explains, I'm

I mean, this party has passed apps.

I thought maybe they'd have like a coat closet, you know what I mean.

But nah, it's just the bed, you know.

So, but how you are there empty coat closets, Like my parent's coat closet.

Is filled, I know.

But like this guy is this massive apartment he lives in by himself, Like I assume there would be like I don't know, some kind of area for coats or whatever the reason.

It's so nineties to me.

I mean, I'm sure people are layering coats on beds now, but like it's such a.

Nineties thing to me.

Where the side parties, there's a sex in the city, like, yeah, so many like storylines based on coat piles.

Yeah, And whenever I had there have been multiple people found in coat piles. I feel like in this show as well, this is not the only one. Whenever I had a party in New York, my bed was just a coat pile. I just I lived in a one bedroom like, I thought this rich man would have, you know, more coat access.

But anyway, here we are.

They're they're they're canoodling on this bed full of coats and Chanel purses and then or maybe they're not Chanell purses. I don't know, maybe they're knockoffs. But then the girl feels like she's on top of something. She pulls a coat back and dunt on it's the poor wasted girl from earlier, eyes wide open, what looks like vomit on her chin, and she is dead. So yikes. They start freaking out. Dougie goes right into spin mode. He is just like, uh, okay, wait, let.

Me figure this out. I got this, I got this.

And it turns out that his name is Clayton Hannigan and he is a cable news host and my money is on Fox News. But they do not specify. In the next scene, Olivia, we find this all out. In the next scene when Olivia and Tomorrow arriving, they're getting the scoop from the uniformed officers. It's the same two

So what's going on?

And liv wants to know why SVU is there and the cops like, my captain's not a risk taker.

We don't know what that means, but we do find out. So then in a.

Moment of pure comedy, we find out that all these people were in such a rush to get the hell out of there when they found a dead body that they overloaded the penthouse elevator and they have all been stuck in there for over an hour. And I wish that we got some footage from inside the elevator. Would love to say it is a fear.

It doesn't like overtake my whole life, But well, no one wants to get stuck in an elevator.

I guess we're all kind of scared of that a little bit. Yes, well I did I did? Did I ever tell you about when.

My aunt Did you work at an elevator company?

No? But my aunt and uncle had this like really gorgeous like loft in Soho for a few years where they moved and because they live they've always lived on the Upper West Side, but they decided they wanted to live in a different neighborhood for a few years, so they moved to this big loft and soho I was house sitting it one year in the summer, and I had a big party, all these comedians and they had an You needed an elevator to get up to it.

Oh my god, we were sweating. It was a nightmare.

Like everyone was trying to figure out how we could climb out of the elevator, like, but and this is like a four story build, a four story building, Like it's not that many floors, you know.

But I would also be scared to climb out because what if in that moment it started right, it starts moving. It's like I'm sure you've seen that in a horror movie. But it's like, I think that happens in like speed. Yeah, I love speed.

It's nodding. Speed holds up, dude, It's scary, it's good. Speed is wild.

So anyway, these people are living out their speed fantasy stuck in an elevator and up on the roof they are loading this dead girl onto a gurney and live comments about how young she looks. And she must be able to tell because she works in this line of work, because I cannot tell how old girls are ever.

I'm like, you could.

Be the varsity field hockey captain, or you could be like an executive with a four oh one K. Like I truly cannot gauge age anymore. Like, especially when I'm taking my kid to school. There's a high school right there, I'm like, you're in high school? Like some of them just looks so old. But lives Chris Deliah, I know, I'm like, well, Dan, look no, I'm just joke.

I please.

I think you can definitely tell when someone's young. I just can't differentiate college, high school, college, and like young just out of college.

Anyway, they talked to Clayton.

He's all wet and he's telling them that a caterwaiter found the body and that this girl must have just been skinny dipping and like you know, died and he jumped in, pulled her out and tried to do mount to mouth. So he's painting himself a nice little hero portrait and he doesn't know her. She must have been

Done.

Done, and now we finally get to the credits. A very packed cold open. We've got a dead body, We've got a lot of high powered players, and I love this arc. This three episode arc was like so fun to me when it was first on.

I love it. Yeah, it really is great.

You know, they don't do it very often, and so it was a treat to have, like the cliffhanger and sorry to bust, sorry to blow it, but there is a cliffhanger at the end of the episode. But yeah, I love when they take this thing and the guest stars have like a stretch.

Yeah, it is very cool.

Yeah, and there's a lot of good guest stars in this. I will review them as we go through them, but there's like a lot of people. Okay.

So top of act.

One, the detectives are interviewing Will the bachelor, the little like daddy boy who has a powerful daddy. So he's like, yeah, my dad told me to fully cooperate, Like what a tragedy I'm super broken up about this girl who died, and.

He doesn't know who she is.

And he's like and he's like, and I don't know if anyone was hired to come to the party, and if anyone was, it's not a crime, like he's you know, he's like, escorts aren't a crime. They're just dates, you know, and lives like, yeah, but all you little sardines and that elevator looked like you were fleeing the scenes, So what's up? Like why the rush if nothing illegal was

And he says, you look.

Look when the body was discovered, I was in the living room giving a toast.

Wait, I am sorry to go off topic again. You're doing such a great job, but something did come to me, and it doesn't need to be in an intro.

I think it's worth it. Do you know that?

Uh a friend of a friend. I hate this, I don't hate it. Whatever, I got scoop that someone in my extended circle of friends did suck his own dick.

What do I know this person?

I don't know if you know them or not, but the name sounded familiar and that's why I started laughing about it in my own head. But yeah, he like walked his legs up on the wall and like did it. But he said, this is the funniest part. I mean, this is sick. But he said it's more like sucking your own dick than getting a blowjob.

Right, yeah, like it like it feels better to get a hand job than to jerk yourself off.

Right.

I don't know if that's even true all the time with the hand jobs, that's like a controversial take care.

Oh no, I no, I mean I feel like, don't people always like doesn't? Oh I thought I didn't know that was controversial. Oh God, better when someone else did it.

No, I think they.

I think they don't want hand jobs because they're better at hand jobs because they're jerking it all the time.

Oh gotcha, gotcha? Yeah? Wait, what made you think of this?

The name sounds Clayton, It like reminded me of the name, and then I had just heard the stories. So then I just started like like being discusted and laughing and if I have to have this horrific image in my head, now you do too, you know what I mean?

And all of our listeners amazing.

So Amaro's talking to Clayton and he's like, yeah, we're college buds. I'm the best man, and he said when the body was discovered by the cater raider, I was in the living room giving a toast, so like it definitely wasn't me that or like if you're suspecting anything, And then Finn's like, where'd you get all the girls from? And he plays dumb and he's like oh, these are all people's guests and dates, like, I can't stop people from bringing dates.

To my parties.

And then Rollin's at the same time is interviewing one of the finance bros who we saw the dead girl earlier kind of like falling all over and spilling her champagne on. And he sees a picture of her and so respectfully says he mostly remembers the top of her head, so he's a douche.

But then he goes, listen, she was super fucked up.

She could barely talk, and he says, I didn't give her anything like, but she did seem like she was on something. And he then he like sees Rollin's cuffs in her pocket. He goes, you ever use your handcuffs in bed? And she just comes right back and goes, you ever get laid without paying for it? And I like that, I'll give that. I like Rollin's telling Finance Wall Street finance bros where they can fuck it stick it.

And now the.

Squad is all together outside on this rooftop beautiful root near this beautiful rooftop pool, chatting about how like, look, no one's really talking. Everyone's kind of throwing up roadblocks, and Amorrow's like, we should compasit gate all the cell

So congrats girl.

Now we're at Melinda's house, as Lisa calls it, and she's got the autopsy, and she says, what's up. This girl did not die drowning. She had no water in her lungs. She odeed on scopolamine. Hello, old friend. If you guys remember I did a sort of a thorough breakdown on scopolamine in the episode Smut where we talked

Like there's all kinds of ways you can use it. Yeah, I don't.

I can't imagine there's any good reasons that people are using scopolamine.

Well, then here's the thing. So then Rollins goes, isn't that for seasickness? And then I look up scopolamine again and nothing in my original research said.

Anything about this.

But I guess it's used a lot for motion sickness, but probably in very small doses. Probably not like you know, like, I'm sure it's I'm sure someone medical or chemistry savvy is going to write us and tell us the difference. But like, you can use it, I guess for any kind of motion sickness. And Melinda says it can also be used to treat a few other medical conditions, but this girl did not have any of those medical conditions, So what's up. I didn't know scopolamine had any valid

It's like a lot of semen to have in your stomach.

So then Melinda says that nothing about this really makes it a definitive homicide, so this could have all been like consensual sexual activity. So Melinda goes, it's a cuppy and I was. I originally glossed over it, and then of course, you know, I googled it. So cuppy stands for Circumstances undetermined pending police investigation. So essentially we who knows, Like, we don't really know for sure, but more evidence could back up or support, like, you know, what's happened to her,

Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking, I didn't realize the tension went this far back, Like we now covered a few episodes where they are not friends.

Yeah yeah, yeah, like this is this is season thirteen, so this is like first season of Orleans. Maybe Melinda's pissed that Maloney's gone. I don't know, it's weird, but Finn steps in to be like Melinda, my girl, anyway you can help us id this victim. And Melinda's like, for you, ice anything, and she's like, this girl had breast implants.

We're tracking the serial number.

So we finally get a little bit of good news and I mean semi good news from Melinda. So now we're back at the precinct and Finn is talking to one of the cops who was at the party that night, like the two guys that answered the noise complaint, and he says they responded to the noise complain at two twenty, gave a stern warning lol. Second call was at three fifty was a woman with a Spanish accent. And then they got a third call from Clayton when they were

This was a party for the police commissioner's son.

And when they talked to Craigan, Amaro's like, these guys both sound very rehearsed, like they know, you know, they've probably talked to their IAB reps.

They know what to say.

Rollins gets a hit on the breast implants and it turns out this girl, our victim's name is Maggie Murphy and she's from Winnipeg, up in Canada.

I've been there.

Yeah, yeah, I had a therapist from Winnipeg and she told me it kind of sucked.

Yeah, yeah, just cold. I think I went to the movies.

I like that you could get mini Cadbury eggs at the movie theater. Oh, I went to a bookstore. I mean I was doing shows. I actually met up with long lost family. That's fun. Yeah, it was fun. And there in the audience there was an arm wrestling competition and they were wasted. It was like all these people from an arm wrestling match came and they were just drunk out of their goards. And then this was also the place where a man he kept swirling his eyes so loudly.

And I went can you just stop?

And he stood up and went, you need to shut the fuck up in the A yes, and I said I have the microphone and it was his birthday and I had to wait for all of them to get kicked out and they were like so mad, but you can't swirl.

I stop swirling your fucking ice, dude. They bring up Winnipeg in the show a lot. Remember in the episode about with Stevie Lynn Jones, what was it the episode producer's back end, There was a movie called Winnipeg Nights.

They like Winnipeg on SVU.

I wonder if someone's from there, because it is like, wait, you know who else is from Winnipeg. That episode was Steve Howie, the like catfishing in between with the NBA player. Yeah, she was on she lived two hours away from Winnipeg. But Winnipeg was mentioned again. Yeah, yeah, you're right on APEG killing it Winnipeg getting it's mentioned, okay.

So Live is immediately upset that someone gave us sixteen year old fake tits, and Craigan's like, let's focus, like, we're not going after Canadian plastic.

Surgeons right now.

So we find out that Maggie ran away from foster care six months ago and had her checks forwarded to an address in Astoria.

I didn't know that they would do that.

No roommates at her apartment, No one seems to know her around there. I don't really even know how a sixteen year old girl finds an apartment in New York.

It's like not easy.

So Finn's like, what about this girl with the accent who called the police? So then they're like, okay, let's look at the footage that they have from the everybody fleeing the scene, and it's literally just like a parade of these strippers and sex workers just leaving, all holding their purses in front of their faces because they know exactly where the security cameras are, and like this isn't their first rodeo, and they know how to hide their faces,

So anyway, funck, dude, I just met someone who has worked looking on an SVU walking Long order walking tour in Manhattan, like the sexost City ones and stuff.

Yeah, she was at a show I was doing. Shout out great idea, Catherine. I think that's her name. Watch, I got it right, you should sponsor us on our podcast. We'll talk about it. Wait, but I'm looking at this actor, oh Christmas vacation.

I was like, he seems like such an eighties dude.

Yeah, like I know his vacation is he he's one of the co workers with Clark or something.

Yeah, he's like in so many things that we've watched. Oh, he's also Simpson's no way and a lot of voiceover. I noticed a lot of voiceover, like cool animation voiceover. So so they.

Walk in at the perfect time holding a USB drive full of footage of the party and it shows Will's activity the entire party, showing that he never was with this victim, and so, uh, they start watching the footage live looks like very unimpressed. She he doesn't remember seeing Maggie with anyone. Will says, she seems sloppy and out of it, and I think I think I saw her making out with a tall, tan brunette woman. And so they're like, okay, we'll go through this footage. What is

So now they're like, we got to talk to Clayton again.

He just headed back to the bedroom where this poor little girl went to like you know, pass out and die, and he must know more than he's saying. And Clayton is it turns out it's supposed to be leave that day to cover the crisis in North Korea. I didn't really know that we went over there. I didn't really think we were allowed to go into North Korea, but I didn't think they were sending wolf Blitzer over there these days.

But we'll see. Cragan sends them to go get them.

He's like, I'll hold the plane with port authorities. So then Live hangs back to talk to Cragan and she's like, we can have the case now that Will is cleared, Like it's not that high profile now that like, you know, the police commissioner's son has been you know, exonerated and found that he couldn't be involved. And Craigan's like ONEPP wants the DA's office to handle this and lives like, great,

These girls are connected to politicians.

Das brass like, it just goes a lot deeper than just like you know, and he says, we've got to play our cards close.

To the vest.

So that's the end of act one at too. Clayton is now an interrogation with his lawyer. Her name is Kendra Gill and she is in New Jersey, Ada, turned defense attorney.

I guess she wanted to make more cash. Baby.

She is an episode Hot House with Sarah Hiland and she's the one who gives her a break so that she doesn't go to jail forever. She's like, they're like, please go easy on or she's young, and then she does and her name is that actress's name is Gretchen eGolf and she says Clayton will spill all the tea, don't even worry about it, and he says, listen, they're like, who helped you get the girl into the pool and she's like, he says, there were some diplomats from Middle

I also didn't know she was sixteen.

And they're like, well, at least five of your friends had sex with an underage girl at this party, and who was with you when you found her? And he was like, that was my He tells them that his blonde is a friend. She's not an escort, she's a friend, and her name is Chris and he doesn't know her last name, and Live goes, oh, so a close friend. I love that. Like the Olivia shade is so funny

Who knows?

And when she says some water would be great, I really hear an Australian accent. So I go to IMDb look her up. Her name is Pipa Black and she is indeed from Downanda, and she is on the Australian soap Neighbors and she's been on it for like seventeen years. So I used to watch Neighbors when I went to Ireland when I was like eleven, I watched Neighbors all the time.

Anyway, this girl to me. So there's an Irish comic at the cellar now and.

He introduced himself yesterday. I was like, yeah, we've met. He goes, well, I don't know. You seem drunk last time I met you. I was like, excuse me, we've met and he goes, well, no, I know, but I met you. And then the same day, about an hour later, you came up and introduced yourself again to me and I go, okay, touche.

I was so pissed, but and you were like, I got got.

Anyway, this girl has like a very Naomi Watts, Nicole Kidman had a baby, but kind of generic vibe to me.

Margo, Robbie. They all do neighbors and they all come to America. I was Tony Colat on.

Neighbors, you know, I like on neighbors. They all love it. But anyway, she's like, I haven't seen you around.

We get a lot of cops on the job, so she's just being very upfront that she's like a sex worker. And she teases Nick for being mister clean and he's like, actually, I'm married, and it's like yeah for about two more minutes. Buddy and Carissa immediately like reads in Nick's eyes that he's been hurt by his wife and he's keeping it bottled up and he needs to release that, like maybe fucking her would possibly even things right up, and it's wild.

He is a Liza fave.

I know him as Freddy from House of Cards, but he was also one of the animal smugglers in the iconic s View episode Wildlife, which we just covered in Montreal. And he is also from the Wire and Oz and I didn't know he died in twenty eighteen.

That's sad.

Yeah, he was a legend and rest in peace. His character is named Barry Querns. And he's telling them that Carissa didn't know Maggie and barely saw her that night, and she says she knew every girl at the party there except for Maggie.

She's an escort.

She gets paid to do parties, do dinners and the lawyer's like, there's nothing illegal about that. As Tomorrow and her give each other like fuck me eyes again, So who's your booker? And Big Shock Barry Quorn's is like you can talk to him, no problem, I represent him as well. So now we are at the apartment of Bart Ganzel. I would say one of my favorite side

And stackers, George Castanza in like clubber gear. Yeah, like black t shirts with gold writing.

Such bushy and like an emotional soul but a criminal bad at it but also good.

It's it is very twisted and funny. Yeah.

So he's like in the couch in jeans and sneakers and like a button down shirt that's like very open, like a lot of chest hair, and all these women who work for him are like around him in underwear and like he's flirting. They're all flirting with him, and you know, it's like he's We're getting the idea he's the king. There's like a party underway by the way

He was on for many many years Ray Donovan.

And what's wild is he played a defense attorney in old seasons of Original Recipe, like one season from the nineties and some from the early two thousands, and then that character crossed over to SVU in season nineteen and did like three episodes of season nineteen as this lawyer,

We're desperate to get who keeps eluding us.

He hangs up the phone, he kisses a girl goodbye, tells Ganzel we got to bounce. We got to get out of here, And just as they're trying to scurry out, this SVU squad arrives, Cassidy and Tomorrow immediately start beefing, like Cassidy's like, where's the warrant? And then he Tomorrow's like slawyer role and then Cassidy throws a punch at him, just fully cold cock Tomorrow in the face, and then they haul him and Ganzell both off, so really escalated quickly.

So this is a scene of these two.

Guys really yeah, really, you know, trying to have a pissing contest. So in walks Benson and she's like, Cassidy, you ass and then Cassidy grabs her hand with both of his hands, you know, like a cupped shaking of hands, and immediately flirts with her, like, looks up and down and goes you look good. Like it's immediately there are vibes and he's like, look, I've been Undercovered with Ganzel for three years. I wasn't going to jeopardize that by like,

Carrisa's the queen Bee. And then he's like, oh, by the way, tomorrow.

I heard you two hit it off, so word travels fast that you know, these two have a connect, and Liv gets these two to chill out. She's like, listen, Cassidy, we need the names of the girls. And he's like, go get that from Ganzel. And for me, you got to put me in wrikers for the night. Get we got to make this look good. And Amarro's like, one more thing, you and a Ganzel. We're kind of on your way out when we arrived, So did someone tip you guys off that we were coming? And Cassidy's like,

Know, Maggie had been making out with earlier.

And then yeah, Ganzel also adds that she's hot, and Finn's like, well, we got to talk to her, and Ganzelle's like, you don't have her, and like then Ganzell just goes, oh, man, that just sucks, like he knows that probably means this girl is dead, but he's like, oh, bomber Man, like it's just funny.

He has funny reactions to things.

Next scene, we're getting the scoop on Anya, like we're at the precinct.

She's got a dozen aliases.

She's from Columbia, she's twenty three, she's been in the country on a student visa.

But oh guess what.

She went back to Cartagena on Sunday and the doorman said she left in a hurry because he remembers everyone. And they found the purse she was carrying in the party footage, and in it is a bottle of scopolamine and it's made out to Anya Brown. So a lot of things are coming together here. So they're like, Okay, what's the deal? Anya bring Maggie to the party and then drugs her. There's like so many easier ways to kill someone. And they're like it was to cause a scandal.

It's like, well, is that like Jimbo's or like Jumbo's clown Room or whatever in La Yeah, but just or where Erica used to work in Jersey.

Yeah, yeah, it's a good place where Erica Girardi used to work maybe, But even that had more of like a strip club vibe like the and Jumbo's has more of like a cabaret vibe, Like I don't know, this place looked like truly a dive bar where you would drink PBRs and then there's just a couple of girls shaking their butts.

Actually across the street from the New Little Field, there's like a metally type bar that sometimes will dance on them. Oh okay, I get it, but yeah, I feel like I like that kind of vibe, more more casual.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, I would say it doesn't seem like the girls are the center of the action there. They're kind of just like it's like the way Go go boys are at Gabe what bars, kind of like they're not You're not there to watch them, but they're just like they're dancing and you love it, you know.

Yeah.

So they go see him there and he's at they're asking about Anya. He's being super cagey. He's saying a lot of throaty platitudes.

Like hookers, never trust him, you know what's going on with you, Cassidy?

And then Carissa arrives, kisses Cassidy on the mouth and then tells him the boss misses you, Like, I don't know what's going on with any of these people, what the relationships are. He tells Nick, why don't you and Carrissa go catch up?

And he says it in a really funny way. Like, I like the way he says it. He goes, why don't you two go catch up?

Like and now now that Nick's out of the way, he's like, I'll give Live the info, like this is my girl, okay. So he's like, listen, Anya, it was one of Delia's Wilson's top girls and then Ganzel stole her away.

Live doesn't know who Delia is.

Delia is runs a high profile, discreete matchmaking service. She's got politicians like really important people bfds. He says, big fucking deal. Two ex governors have her on their speed dial. Like she's got the high class clientele, and she was number one in town until Ganzel moved in, but now he's got the hottest girls and she's got the highest profile clients. And so they are like fighting feuding so over on the other side of the bar, Carisa's back

Detective?

Like it's very her dialogue is all very cliche. I feel like in this episode Mary Soap opera, very neighbors, Yes, very neighbors, and you know they have their that's their cute little moment. So then Cassidy back to Cassidy and Live. He tells her that two months ago, Delia sent a couple goons over to the loft to threaten Ganzel, tell

It's like she's not.

She's no make a yeah, very honest, very farm like a woman who owns an organic farm upstate New York.

And she's like, well, it's like when we met Gusts and Breaking Bad, you know, the chicken guy, and we're like, whoa, yeah, you don't know where a giant and the crime pin.

Is true and it's more interesting to sort of make it exactly what you're saying, like unexpected.

So well they.

Might they have to be if they're the best of the best, only like like we also assume.

She's better than Genzel. Yeah, but it's all.

He's competing with her, but she's not competing with him.

Yeah.

Yeah, but you also put a target on your back when you're like riding around in an escalade with like all the fancy shit and like eating at fancy restaurants. Like I think, if you lay low, you can just enjoy your accent, your your assets that you've hidden in offshore bank accounts. So anyway, she is sitting there feeding this cute little goat and the detectives ask her about Anya and Maggie and she's like, no, not ringing any bell.

She plays it so casual. She seems like actually.

Very confused about the line of questioning, like what's what's up, what's this about? And then they're like, tell us about your relationship with bart Ganzell and she's like, there is no relationship. I've heard of him, Like she's really downplaying it, like he's kind of inconsequential in my life. I don't care. And she's like, look, I'm a mother of three. Between taking care of them and my husband and the farm,

You have time to run an escort agency.

She's like it's a matchmaking service, and it's a hobby, a mere side hustle.

It's not a big part of my life.

And she's playing dumb saying she's never met Ganzell, she doesn't even know anything about the poaching of girls or any of this, and she's so straight faced. She's just like, sorry, I've got nothing for you, Like ganze E seems like a criminal, but I'm sorry you came all this way for nothing. Like she's truly stonewalling them in a great, great performance, And in the next scene lives updating Craigan and she's.

Like, I don't buy the Sunnybrook Farm act.

She thinks Maggie was a full declaration of war from Delia to bart And and Craigin's like this woman like teaches Sunday school, she drives her kids to soccer games, like if she's a notorious like Madam, then it's it's honestly quite a front. And Weiss turns out investigated her for five years. Lives like, I'm trying to get the file, and Craigan's like, yeah, they didn't find anything. Why do you think, like you're not gonna find anything in the files?

The next scene, we're.

At the Fifth Avenue office of the former Governor Harrison Fletcher, and the former governor was apparently they're late working on his memoir with his assistant and had a heart attack, So why do we call SVU? The guy there goes, I mean, I'm no expert, but the guy's pants are unzipped and they're on backwards. So then they pan to the victim and it's this old man sitting upright on like a fancy leather couch, eyes wide open, like not even slumped, just as if he were alive but dead.

And yeah, answer on backwards. So that's fucked.

And I guess now Delia only has one former governor to be on their speed dial.

So that's the end of act three.

And at the top of act four, the assistant is telling Rollins and Finn, we were editing chapter seven of his book and he just keeled over. She's not very good with the details of this woman. She seems very flustered. They ask about the backward pants and she immediately admits everything.

That the governor was actually getting a.

Massage when he died, and that his aid called her over and that's when they met, and they dressed him because he was Nudi judy on the couch and they did not want his wife and kids to find out that he died getting a happy ending, as Finn says, and then she points them to the rolodex and is like, the messuse's contact is in there.

And then Finn really shades.

The assistant after she leaves and goes, oh, man, that makes me feel better, knowing that the assistant's face isn't the last one he saw before he died.

It's like, Finn, don't be mean to this one. I miss that. I miss that. He says, like, oh, I hate to think that was the last phase he saw before he died.

I was like, shit, it's like just this like little frumpy, little assistant woman. Anyway, Melinda, with the scoop as always, tells us that this guy did not really die. He did die of a heart attack, but it was not because of low blood blood pressure. He had heart meds in a system alcohol as well as two hundred milligrams of Viagara, which is four times the dosage, plus eight milligrams of She's back scopolamine. So it was murder. But

But was it murder? So why would Delia kill a client?

This must be Ganzell striking back at Telia. So they bring them a sus into interrogation.

So funny.

It's like they're getting back at each other, but everyone else is getting murdered. Like it's not even like their properties damaged, kill one of the it's like they're just killing the governor, like what the fuck?

And like sixteen year old girls who ran away from foster care, Like I think, I don't know. These are bad people truly, but they bring this messuse into interrogation. She says she didn't kill him. She sees him every week, twice a week. She knows that he is on heart medication, he's not allowed to take Viagara all that stuff. Rollins is like, we could support you back to Japan, and she's like, no, listen. When I got there, he was dead. He was lying on the couch, not moving or breathing,

You know, that's the best you can ask for, I think.

And now they're questioning Iris, and this is the woman who was walking the detectives back to meet Delia at the farm. This is the blonde woman and her name is This actress's name is Amy Hargraves, and she actually played Carrie Matheson's sister on Homeland, and she was the main dude's mom in Thirteen Reasons Why I knew I reck a nicer from a bunch of stuff.

But she's she's worked on a bunch of.

Things, and those are just two that I remember, and she confirms the Messusa story. She's like, listen, I told her to leave, and then I called the Governor's aid right away, and Iris said she didn't know anything about the drugs that killed the governor and lives like, you've got two daughters, right like, if you don't like start helping us out, you're going to be they're going to

A legend.

He's played this character Marvin Exley in seven s VU episodes, so we've seen him before. I think he was in producers back end.

Yeah, he was in producers back end. And he tells me you gotta be rich to work with Marvin Xley.

Yeah, exactly.

He tells Iris to shut the fuck up, and Live says, you should help yourself, and he's like, I think she's going to be quiet, right Iris, And Iris is like, nah, fuck this, I'm not going down for this.

I'll talk to the detectives by myself, which I think that's a big mistake, mistake, you know. But she thinks that they're.

Gonna die, like your daughters will be killed or you will be killed, Like why are you fucking with them?

And also they like have nothing on you. You weren't the.

Scene, like they don't really have.

Anything on you. Iris, Like it's kind of I know, Livia is telling.

You you're going to s Yeah, I don't know. So the next thing we see are a ton of cops rolling up on Sunnybrook Farm. Marvin Xley's already there, He's beaten them there. They arrest her. She says, I make fresh goat cheese and help people find love. There's no crime here, and Axley says one of Ganzel's whores must have killed the governor, and Live says, great, do you

She's avoided arrest for ten years. How do you think she did that?

She's got the goods on all your bosses, your future bosses, everyone at the top. And he's like, oh, Like he's like, live you think you and your pal Hayden are going to stop her? You're in over your head and he's like, my expert advice is walk away, little people, okay, And from Ron Rifkin you kind of believe it, like he's really I'm scared. Amorrow is like back off, dude, and Nextuley goes, you think your marriage is rocky, Now wait till the missus hears about your little relationship with the

He just walks away.

Craigan's like, uh, yeah, Wemorrow, is there anything you want to tell me? And Tomorrow's like, nope, we're good. And then outside the precinct at night, Amorrow's walking to his car, it seems when he gets approached by Carrissa, she looks scared. He's like, let's go inside, but she looks so nervous. She's like, if I tell you what I know about the Governor's death, can you protect me. She thinks she's the next casualty in this war between Delia and Ganzell.

We will get back there.

I remember this, like this finale shook my life, Like I remember this being like what off?

Fuck? Like I couldn't what. Yeah?

Great, Yeah, television, you used to have to make you like want more at the end of the summer to come back.

Yeah, it's like and they made you.

Wait, it's a full Godfather reference, like leaving a horse head in someone's bed, like leaving a dead sex worker who's like the star of the investigation, who also is engaged to one of these king pimps. Right, Like it's wild. But anyway, that's all for Carissa. We'll be back with We'll be back with them crime.

All right.

So this is you know, there's obviously layers and layers of crimes. Are just gonna focus on one. It's the Greg Calli rape allegation. Now, Kara, do.

You remember this happening while you were here in New York? Yes?

Yes, because Greg Kelly it used to be on like I think, like Fox's Morning show locally in New York with Rosanna Scatto, and she's very like personable and lovable. He's like a full idiot, like he would constantly be on the Soup. The Soup would always show clips of Greg Kelly because he would just always say stupid shit or like stuff that was seemed like pervy or I don't know, like he just this did not like surprise me when I heard it. I think what surprised me

Yeah.

So Greg Kelly, like Kara said, is a local TV anchor.

And who is he though? He is the son of.

The police commissioner at the time, So that's Raymond W.

Kelly. So we have a.

Police commissioner's son who's a reporter. I think you can see the direct link to the episode.

Unless he's like Clayton, he's like Clayton and will Brady combined into one care like they separated them as characters for this.

But yeah, yeah, he is still working.

But on his own show on Newsmax Network that's whatever.

That's right wing, that's oh.

Yeah, so says he's a radio host and podcast or whatever. But I went on his Twitter and he's a very big a Hunter Biden laptop guy. Yeah that says big thing and what I always am, Like, Okay, let's say this Hunter Biden sucks. He has no power, he's not in the government. Yeah, like who cares, you know what I mean, Like, he's not working. I just don't understand who he has to be good for. Like I don't understand why his laptop is important. He doesn't work. He's

I know it.

They all think that he's involved with like all this government corruption and stuff. It's like it's wild. It's like, don't I don't want to get a look at Eric Trump's laptop.

I wouldn't want to know what the fuck is on there.

Well, yeah, so once you see yeah Hunter Biden stuff, you know he's wild. He reposts and loves Ben Shapiro. He's had Eric Trump as a guest on his show. He called the rate of mar A Lago a legal atrocity. So this is this guy, Okay, yeah, so unfavorable to us immediately at the time of the case though, he was an anchor on Good Day New York on Channel five and a former New York one political reporter, and he has other credits and like the military and stuff.

Yeah, because I didn't watch Good Day New York.

I just knew everything about them from the soup, like.

All the time.

So he was accused of raping a young woman in Lower Manhattan in October twenty eleven. There was obviously a conflict of interest from the police department to investigate the sexual assault accusation since it was the commissioner's son, so the case was handed over to the office of the District Attorney, Cyrus R.

Vance Junior.

He of course denied the accusation, but the woman was in her late Can you imagine someone being like I did do it. I did do it. Yeah, So where do we go from here? I have never never seen that. Yeah. So the woman was in her late twenties early thirties. She was twenty nine and a paralegal, but the media kept describing her as an aspiring model actress. But like she kind of dabbled and she was a paralegal. Like,

A lot of shady stuff happens.

It's such a spin because paralegal makes it seem like this woman knows the difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex, and aspiring model actress makes people think this is a woman who will do anything to get famous, you know.

Yeah, that's that's yeah.

So she walked into the thirteenth Precinct station house with her sister on Tuesday after eight pm in.

January twenty twelve.

The attack did happen in October, this is January.

It took her a while to disclose.

She said that she met Kellyana the street and the two went to the South Street Seaport for drinks on October eighth, and then went to her office and to her downtown law firm, and that's where she told police the rape occurred. So this is from the New York Times, and it's tied in with the police like all of that. It's really a hard time reading the spin or like you know, seeing the article for what it is because

Him, why don't you go write a letter?

Wow, So basically he was running on the secret, like he was like outside and he saw the commissioner doing some sort of speech. Event I get in more details about it, but like approached while he was on his run.

He was like, I gotta take my shot.

If I don't take my shot, I'm going to regret it forever and was like your son, And the commissioner was like.

Why don't you write a letter? And that was that. So they both confirmed that that interaction.

Did happen, but the charges were eventually dropped and never went forward. But sixteen days after she reported it, her picture was on the front page of The New York Post with the headline shady lady.

This is why the New York Post is like the most disgusting publication.

So February twenty twelve, the DA Sex Crimes Unit chief sent a letter to Kelly's lawyer declaring her office's investigation found no criminal charges were appropriate, and right after that, the Post dropped its identity protection so early in the case, no outlets named her, following a long accepted media standard in protecting the identities of sex crime victims unless they publicly come forward.

So it was secret, secret, secret, and.

Then it's like immediately charges dropped and her faces everywhere and like smearing her and what a liar she is.

So that's pretty fucked.

But it wasn't even just the post like immediately it happened. So two years later, this woman, finally, Maria de Toro, the accuser, went public for the first time to BuzzFeed News.

So that is in twenty fourteen.

So from twenty twelve to then, she didn't really say anything, but this is when she decided to talk, and she says the you know how the tabloids eventually moved on, but she didn't know how to move on, like you know, she was just like this salacious tale, but like she had to deal with this like trauma for a long time.

That's crazy, So I don't.

Really know how, but if it's like I guess, if this law is really should be.

But yeah, everything is sealed, you cannot see anything.

Yet some of the information was leaked into the press in the early twenty twelve. So she said that they met on Third Avenue when she was walking her dog and she recognized him and they chatted and he asked for her phone number and she did give it, so she told her sister, and her sister had posted that he asked for her phone number on Facebook. So then they texted, and then the next Friday, he called her at her office and asked what her favorite sexual position was.

So they met up and headed towards the seaport.

So she claims that they both knew that they were both dating other people, and that she had told him that like nothing is going to happen between them, and they chatted about that as they walked and talked to get drinks at Jeremy's alehouse. The convo over drinks got more explicit sexual and filled with admissions of fetishes and sexual experiences.

She says.

After taking a few SIPs of her third drink, she said she felt like suddenly, like super strongly impaired, and they left the bar and her memor became just clips and visions and a blur, and she said it was fucked like she only had two drinks, like she wouldn't be this messed up, and like she couldn't.

Even damn finish her third drink. She threw feet her two Jesus.

That she was just like really fucked up, and he started kissing her, and she remembered like seeing his bare shoulders, blurred face, and just not being able to move her body or have control over it. And then he sat up on a chair and asked her if she was on the pill, and like she remembers waking up alone, rolling over and vomiting and this is all at her job, and then her bra was unhooked but on, and she just kept puking and puking and trying to clean up

Yeah.

So then Kelly called her and they discussed how drunk they were, and when she said she didn't remember anything, he filled her in about really graphic details and said that he was trying to put his dick in her throat and she wasn't having any of it, And when she asked if you put anything in her drink, he said he was uncomfortable with her questions and did not like where the conversation was going. But she didn't understand how only after two drinks she was unable to remember

That happened on.

Thursday, October thirteenth, so like five days after and so the boyfriend was out for a run, like I said, came across Ray Kelly giving a speech at a police memorial on the Hudson River, and he's like, if I don't do this now, I won't ever forget myself. And so he confirmed the letter's suggestion, but instead both he and Rhea started texting Kelly, and Kelly stopped responding fully.

So she ended up.

She did get an abortion, but she kept trying to include Kelly and was like, I'm at the clinic, blah blah.

So yeah, and then they did an SVU episode on it called Scorched Earth that we will definitely cover at some point.

Yeah, but this is a case you remember living in New York as well.

Yeah, So they're acting like because he was convinced that Dominique straus Khan was guilty, there's no way he could have essentially done the same thing.

Yeah, because he was like pissed that the DA dropped it and that they weren't doing hard enough and so that is all of their evidence to be like, yeah, he got mad at this rapist.

Why would he rape? So yeah, it's like, yeah, their thing.

Then, as I said above, On February seventh, no criminal charges would be pursued, was announced by Martha Bashford, chief

Yeah, so that seems like they're connected.

But she said there wasn't any signs of inability to say no, how.

Do you know that? How would she know that?

So the evidence for that is that she signed the receipt at the bar, and there's a video of her walking on her own two feet.

But hello scopolaman.

But because she was able to sign the receipt and the newscaster guy was quoted being like our tab was so cheap, Like she's out of her mind, Like he was just like that was in like a throwaway drink and meant nothing like it was just like so cheap.

What do you mean you got wasted?

But I'm really thinking there is like hardcore scoopolamine vibes here. So basically they're saying if she walked from the bar to the office building and paid the bill, like that's what this prosecutor is using to measure impairment or not.

And so she couldn't prove that. She couldn't say no, And.

It's like, what would she What does she get out of this? What does she get out of if she made it up? If she let's say, she got drunk, had sex with Greg, Kelly, felt bad, she cheated, her boyfriend, wakes up the next day and then goes to the like decides two months later to tell the police to blow up her life, Like it just does not make sense why you would do it?

Yeah, because her boyfriend already was like gonna keep staying with her, you know what I mean? Like I and from far I know they they have stayed together. And the also like since there were text messages after and like between them, and those were also and like the night of it, so those were kind of used to drop the case as well, since they had communication after the assaults. But Firestine said, it's still fucked up, like with the papers and the.

Press and stuff.

So she at least is like, yeah, what happened with the press is really messed up.

But chargers were dropped.

She was all over like that she's like a lying, shady person. And and he but he didn't go back. I mean he's not at a respectable news place anymore, but he is working and nothing really happened to him.

Like that party scene was gross to.

Watch, yeah for sure, Yeah, and they that, Yeah, I just don't understand when you consider what her motive would be, like what would be anyone's motive to tell this story about how they vomited all over the place they.

I think the their spin is that she's just trying to like for her boyfriend not to be mad at her.

This is a famous person, like you know, this is there's gonna be press about this.

This is a famous person.

She might like she knows he's related to the police commissioner too, So it's like she took a huge risk to go to the cop.

But even like while reading a lot of the stuff, I was like, she's lying, Like it is like the spin is real, you know what I mean, and it is really fucked. That's why, Like while reading the Times articles and stuff, I'm like, I don't love the way they're spinning shit.

If she if she went to him Greg Kelly and said I'm gonna go to the cops if you don't give me ten thousand dollars, Okay, then I see that.

But she's not asking for money.

She's asking you know, like she It's just crazy, like to me to think that all these people that think that women are like making up rape charges just to like fucking spike men or like make sure yet to destroy men, because that's what art, you know, like fucking nuts. Anyway, thank you for the breakdown, because you know what, I didn't know a lot of that. I didn't know about the pregnancy. I think I just knew generally, and I know who Greg Kelly is. I remember this case happened like.

That's the thing.

I remember it, the allegation and the dismissal happening really quick like that. It was like not a big, like a blip in that guy's like life. But this episode is also based on an amazing escort rivalry, and we will of course cover that when we do our next.

Episode about this three episode arc. And don't go anywhere because we have an amazing guest. You're gonna be obsessed. Okay, guys, guys.

When we started this podcast, there were certain people Lisa really wanted to get. Ari Grainer, other people that she said she wanted to get. I have always wanted to get today's guest. She is an actor who has starred in some iconic television shows, Gray's Anatomy, Ray Donovan Bates Motel, a fan of two shows.

I'm big fans of Big. You can't even get this out. I don't think I've ever seen this. You can't even see it's like I'm stumbling all over the place.

Most importantly, she played Catherine Martin in a seminal Clank family film called.

The Silence of the Lambs.

But you know her in a three episode SBU arc as Upper east Side Madam Delia Wilson. Guys, please to enjoy our amazing chat with Brooke Smith.

Hi, Brook, thank you so much for talking to us.

Yeah, I mean, I hope it's not like a five minute, you know episode.

Well, we've been dreaming of talking to you since we started this podcast.

It's really it's thrilling that you're here. Delia so evil, but she's just misunderstood.

I mean, she's such an interesting character because she like lives on a farm and like baby goats.

But then it is like, what's up.

I'm an Upper east Side madam, but I only wear like Wellington boots and vests.

Like it's a confusing She's not what you normally think of.

Yeah, I mean, that's that sounds a little Martha, doesn't it.

It's like if Martha Stewart had a side business supplying sex workers to the britch and powerful.

And I remember, I mean, you guys probably know better than me, but I feel like you know, it was loosely based on something real.

You know that there was a woman.

Yeah, yes, yes, well we're going to so.

Yeah, and it didn't really end well for her, did it.

I No, I don't think so.

I think she's in prison. Yeah.

Did you know, did you do any research on the real version or did you just go in?

Yeah?

Not so much.

I knew about her, and I knew enough about her, and then it was just I think the whole point was just that she has some, you know, pretty well placed clients, you know, like pretty high up in the government type people.

Yeah.

So, but she was Russian, I think. So it's not like I ever decided to make her Russian or because.

It was you know, yeah, well that would have been a choice.

Yeah, yes, So, I mean my immediate first question, how was bottle feeding that baby goat?

I mean, how was that experience? I can't forget.

Starting there because it's literally like we're gonna have to stretch this into the entire interview because it's kind of all I remember.

That thing had just been born that day.

No.

Yes, And these are the perks of being an actor, Like who gets to hold a baby goat and feed it?

I can't believe they're ready to work so fast.

Well, I don't know that they asked the goat, you know.

Yeah, no, It's so funny because it's like you see a baby born in a movie and you're like, that's a three month old baby. But like the baby goats, what do we know that could have been? You didn't have to be a day old.

Yeah, no, that's really true.

Actually, yeah, I don't think they do like hours freshly born humans.

Yeah, that's not a lot.

Well, the goat probably as a baby goat has like certain union hours. It's allowed to work on sex and you know, like have to get it to its tutor and everything.

So I wonder where the goat is now?

Was the goat well behaved like you enjoyed, very great time.

Adorable, so cute. I get to hold it. It was like a little my No, it was very very nice.

Where did you guys film the farm scenes?

I'm going to say Long Island?

Oh that makes sense.

That's what I'm going to say. I feel like it was Long Island. I almost said New Jersey.

Ps.

Where are you guys are?

We're in LA But I'm in New York right now. I'm in Sunset Park at the moment. Oh why, I just love it here. I miss it and I just we do stand up comedy and so coming to New York you just get to do a lot of it, party dinners, friends.

I like it.

Yeah, I guess I do miss New York. I think I'm starting to realize.

That are you in La Yeah?

Here for like, you know, fourteen thirteen years something like that. But I have a daughter who's now at Pratt So I've been going to oh cool, you know, New York, mostly in Brooklyn. I feel so weird about Manhattan, you guys, I don't know.

No, I don't really Brooklyn's the coolest spot to be.

Yeah, I don't really relate in any way to the city that literally made me who I am.

Did you grow up in New York?

I did?

And actually, oh, look at this perfect publicity moment.

I was a punk rocker.

And I in the mid eighties lived in a squat on the Lower East Side and took all these photographs. And I have a book coming out in the fall in November.

Wow. Cool.

So it's about you know, it's there's not a lot of words, it's mostly photographs. Oh god, I'm touching the phone. Hold on, I'm not supposed to do that, Okay anyway, So, yeah, that's so. I'm from New York, but I don't recognize it.

I I don't.

And even when I stay at my friend's house in Brooklyn and she has a view of like all of Manhattan, I'm like, is that Cleveland?

I have no idea. Like those tall, skinny buildings near Central Park? What are those?

Oh? I don't even know.

I lived in New York for eleven years, but I left six years ago to La So I don't really know the sky.

I mean especially I don't know.

I don't know New York as well, especially because of pandemic.

I didn't go for like two over two years.

You know.

But you're you're were you born and raised Upper West Side?

Well, I mean I was born in Manhattan.

I was raised near Nyak Huh A lot of shooting of sbu up therapy.

Yeah. Yeah.

I have performed in the Mall comedy club before.

Oh yeah, the Nanuet or the Nanuet Mall.

Is it called the Levity where Levity Live is right?

I don't know the name of them all, but I visited Sleepy Hollow. I saw like the I went to the cemetery.

I had some fun but nice nice.

But New York at NAY is gritty and scary like it used to be, So maybe it'll feel familiar.

Yeah, they post pandemic. It's gone well.

At first, like an older comic was telling me, I was like, he's just an old man. And then I stayed out till five and it's like, oh, this is different.

Yeah.

I mean it was weird because I was there last week and I took my daughter nineteen to Tompkins Square, which used to be literally I knew the payphone number by heart, and you know, sat on a bench there smoking pot with my daughter. It's just so bizarre, you know, Like, and I actually did notice that some kind of old timey things like people shooting up in the middle of the day in the park. You know that didn't feel like you know, it was like that a couple of years back.

But yeah, no, but the smell of weed is fun when you're walking by, and it's so cool you get to smoke with your daughter.

Yeah, I know, right, I'd rather people walk walk smoking weed than on the goddamn cell phone. I I have a rule, I do not move out of the way, Like, if I'm walking and you're on your cell and you're walking, you got to pull over otherwise I'm gonna you just saying yeah.

And I'm assuming they just offered this part to you.

Oh they did, yeah.

Offer only baby.

Well, and you had done like a lot of law and order, like you've been in criminal intent, you've been in regular law and order and SV You've done the whole trifecta.

I have.

And I have to say, I think it took so long for SBU because every time. I think there were a couple of times before when they asked me and I was like, do I get raped? Does my kid get raped? I'm just not really in the mood for that. So this one was like, yeah, I'll do this one.

Yeah, almost when you're like, I'm just getting people killed from crossing me, but nothing, you know, you don't really get your hands dirty per se.

But yeah, it's terrifying character.

So you're curious which ones you turned down, though, like I want to know what the like, that's a wild question to remember, but I'm so curiously Yeah.

So cool.

I know, I know one involved a kid being taken, and I thought, oh no, I can't do that?

Yeah too close?

Yeah, just too too.

Yeah, QUSVU REALLYSVU.

But even though you didn't, we weren't like a criminal criminal you did get I mean you were a criminal. You didn't get your hands dirty, but you got a nice courtroom scene.

I was. Do you remember filming the courtroom scene?

Oh god, will you guys tell me some stuff? What did I do?

I don't know. Well, your lawyer? Your lawyer was Ron Rifkin.

Oh yeah, I love Ron?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Was that good? Was that fun? That's crazy?

It's like crazy that I totally forgot that until you said that. Is this what happens to people when they come on They're like, holy shit, he was.

He was in a lot of people. A lot of people are like, wait.

You tell me what happened next, were like, what happened.

When you shot?

When you had that blood all over you? And she's like wait, I did well you get that a lot?

Wow.

And then we're kind of like, I said so in depth that we'll talk to someone.

They're like, that was twenty two years ago.

Like sometimes I do feel our questions are inappropriate.

I mean, let's face it, I could have rewatched it, couldn't I have?

I could have like crept I did google it. I saw it ten years ago.

Ten years ago, the ten year anniversary of that of that full three episode arc that goes across seasons.

Oh yeah, yeah from thirteen to fourteen.

Yeah yeah, there you got it. But do you have any memories of like working with Marishko, working with Braun, like working like being on the set or anything like anything our listeners might like, nice hotel, a little bit of tea.

I remember, Oh god, I wish I had tea. I remember Mary, she could being very very nice. She had a baby too. She had a baby, like right there in a crib, baby like right there, her youngest one. Yeah, I'm thinking right ten years ago.

Yeah. How many does she have?

She has three?

But I think her oldest son is like a teen, like a seventeen or eighteen.

Oh yeah, oh good luck. I guess that's why she's still working. They're still doing this show. Yes, Oh yeah, baby, Okay, what season is it?

Twenty? It's about to be twenty four? Holy shit. Wow.

Yeah, they're never going to stop. I think they'll just stop when she stops. I truly don't think they're going to stop it until she stops.

Oh my god.

Yeah yeah, wait, so let me think, Well, when you asked that question, I all of a sudden thought of Law and Order, which isn't the same. But I just remember being in a courtroom in Law and Order, So you think, why wouldn't I remember this one? It was more recent, but I remember asking questions and Sam Waterston being like, don't ask questions.

Don't it's Pandora's box.

If you ask questions, it's all going to fall apart, you know, Because I was like, wait a minute.

Why was I here? If this happened then, you know that kind of thing. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no god, the scripts are in. We only have till Friday, Like, let's just shoot this thing.

At that point it was probably Sam Waterson's like fifteenth season.

He was like, nope, we don't do questions.

Yeah, yeah, no, just just play the scene, Brooke. Yeah, that's so. I don't know.

I don't remember much else. It's really just the goat. Everybody was very nice, and yeah, I do remember that kind of burbery clothing thing that yeare Richie kind of yeah, and.

Like when they when they lead you down the courthouse steps, which I don't know if you remember this, when you finally do get busted, they lead you down to the courthouse steps.

I think you're wearing Wellington's. I mean, you're like rubber boots to court.

It's because they picked me up there, don't they. Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, well obviously we we want to know how often do people bring up the lotion to you in the streets.

You know, still they still do it, but less, I'd say less. It used to be weirder, you know, when people be like, you know, oh my god, my boyfriend does that same thing when he texts his penis in and you're just like.

Oh my god.

I don't know if I need to know that or that should be your boyfriend or I just like, yeah.

So I do get that sometimes, Yeah, it seemly that.

Or Grey's anatomy, because I guess those are the two biggest things.

You know, I was gonna ask you, do you get more? Do you get more silence of the Lambs? People are more Gray's Anatomy people.

I think it's like fifty to fifteen.

Yeah, yeah, Because like when Lisa was saying how she sees people, and she's like svusvusbu. I've seen you in a ton of stuff that you've done, but I always am like, oh my god.

Yes it's brook Smith from Silence of the Lambs. Yeah, just like that movie. The listeners know. I bring up that movie all the time, like.

It's just like it was like a seminal movie for me, Like it was very disturbing. I think I watched it when I was like twelve or thirteen, maybe too early, and I like really love it, and my family like quotes it and makes jokes about it all the time. I don't know, we're sick, but you're so good in that, And that was one of your first big roles, right.

Yeah, it was kind of my big first thing.

Yeah, it was your big because you're also associated not only with Logan but the song like the American Girl. I feel like, you know, there's certain movies where that's all like all I think about when I hear that song.

Yeah, it's it's funny because I'll be like in a mall and I'll hear that song and I'll fee I'll kind of look around secretly I.

Can't believe saying this, and I'll be like, is everybody gonna mob me? Now? Like, no, no one sees you.

No one is making that connection, Brooke, No, no, but.

It's just like it is such a song.

I connect to one person and that person is you.

Even though crazy, I wish I had met Tom Petty.

You guys, and I know I know, so can I just like take it back? So you grew up in New York, the New York area, and I was reading about you that your mother was this like well known publicist and had like a lot of big clients. So was that something that kind of sparked your interest in getting into the acting world. Did you already have that or like what how did you get started in this crazy biz?

Yeah?

I mean I would say that was it, and that Freud or whoever would probably say that my mom was always off with actors, So hello, I became an actor, you know.

But she was East Coast, so that's a little different. Yeah, and she was different in every way.

Like this morning, I was I'm just going to diss the New York Times once but this and I sound just like my dad who worked at the New York Times. But I saw the cover today and there was some piece like halfway down about some publicist and I remember my mom used to say, like, if you're a publicist and you're publicizing yourself, like.

You know, what is that?

I don't know, but anyway, so yes, grew up around it and I don't know what.

To say except I always knew that's what I was going to do. I just always knew.

And I guess I would say nepotism was a piece of it, probably because Jonathan Demi was a publicist prior to being a direct so he knew my mom somehow, and I think when he was starting to look for someone to play that role, somebody said, oh you should, you know, talk to Lois's daughter, and that's kind of how I met it, and boom, yeah, so there you go.

Well I read it the I think it was Vulture did like the anniversary of Silence of the Lambs or like an oral history, and you were a part of it and talking, and I did.

Really love that.

You're like the only person ever in the history of entertainment that's ever been like, oh yeah, my mom was in the bus and that's.

How I got connected. And then I got a thing like no one ever wants to say that.

I guess people feel like it means they're not good or something. Or whatever.

But if you had been terrible, A, we would have seen it, and B you would have stopped working.

I think, you know, hopefully.

There's a lot of bad actors out there working guys.

I know, right, Oh wait, but did you you saw this whole thing O like a year ago maybe with the anniversary of Sound Slams, where everybody said that you and the guy who played Buffalo Bill were dating.

Yes, And it was a picture from my camera of us sitting on the edge of the pit right with their arms around each other, Ted Levine, who was married, And I was like, you know, no, we were I never dated.

Yeah, every and then you wrote on Instagram and were like this isn't true but cute pick or something exactly.

Yeah, and people still didn't believe me, and yeah, all right, that was getting so viral for like three days.

It was like, can you believe these two co stars dated?

I know, very weird, very weird.

I mean, I will say, and I've said this before that Jody used to refer to me as Patty Hurst because she.

Didn't really get. I mean she did get because she had done the accused.

But that thing of when you kind of overcompensate with an actor who's like on screen torturing you and going to kill you, so you kind of bend over the other way when you're off screen. Yeah, we became really tight and hung out all the time when we weren't working.

So well, that's cool. How deep was the hole?

It was deep, you guys, it was And it was in a factory in Pittsburgh weirdly whoa, and so.

They like, I don't know, they made it and I could.

Get in it from down below or from the side or from above, but it was pretty deep.

I got a sign.

Oh my gosh.

Well, so Kara's always Silence of the Lambs with you and wildly. In my theater class in high school, we watched Uncle Manya on forty second Street and that's that was my introduction to you.

So wait, what theater class? What theater class?

Oh?

Like at my high school, I went to Niles North in the Chicago suburbs, and mister Ortman loved him. He retired this past year. But we had a we had an amazing theater department. We had like a full costume and scene workshop, and I mean we had like we did equis in high school, kabuki plays like it was really cool and I forgot, well we're probably just studying Chekhov or something, but we watched and.

It was nice. Shout out to mister or Yeah.

Yeah, that was one of my faves. I think, I think probably my fave.

I don't know.

And then of course I've seen you in Bosh. I'm a huge Bosh head and Big Sky was one of my big pandemic watches. Loved your whole arc in Big Sky. I was really nervous and scared for you. But I kind of like that your character ends up well and I don't want to spoil it for any of the Big Sky.

Yet it's out there. Yeah, yeah, no.

I was happy with how that turned out as well.

And yeah, and Bosh, I don't know, they brought me on. This happens to me where they bring me on to be like Grumpy and the foil and like and I'm like, why do why don't I like that person? And they're like, we don't know, we just need somebody to not like that person. So yeah, I don't know. I just kind of disappeared on Bosh, didn't Yeah.

Yeah, you were like against the chief, right, like you didn't like you were making her life a living hell kind of.

I think I probably yeah, because then I remember Amy Akino and Io that's her. Yeah, we were like saying, wouldn't it be nice if we could like come together and be women who like support each other and not like.

Attack each other like they always do. And then I was gone.

So they're like, actually, no getting rid of her.

No, you know, we don't want that. She has too many ideas.

Do you watch your projects?

I do?

I feel like there was on recently that I didn't, but uh no, you know what there's I mostly do.

I mostly do. There's been a couple that I haven't.

There was one I did that I'm sure is terrible, but I had so much fun that I don't want to, you know, have that memory?

Do you know it's terrible as you work? Honestly?

Oh that's a good question. Well, h no, I'll get in trouble. I can't say much. But uh, they you know, I just did something recently that I really have no idea what the hell we did, no clue, and so we'll see what they, you know, turn it into I really don't know. So I guess it's true that we never really know. But I will say I knew on Silence of the Lamps that it was going to be huge. Yeah you did, Yeah, that one, I know, yeah, and the other ones I guess.

I can know.

And you ended up being like on Grays, which I'm not a Gray's person, but I was wondering, like, Dick Wolfe Universe, shondaaland those are kind of two huge, you know, TV powerhouses.

How do you think they compare?

Oh my god, you mean specifically Dick Wolf and Shonda Rhimes.

Well, no, just like this, the feelings of the sets, like the you know, be it because you've been on you were really recurring on Grays. Obviously you did like dozens of episodes on Grays, but you've been on like three different Law and Order sets and various roles, and you probably got a sense for what it's like. I was just wondering if like it's like, no, it's shondaland like it's this way, and you know, I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know what.

To say about that. They do feel like different lands. And I remember I had a friend who was on Grays when I got there, who said, Okay, at the table, read sit next to Shonda.

If you have a major script note.

Take it right to her right after the table read if not, go to the writer that's name is on the script, because you don't want to make that you know, you don't want to get into Shonda unless it's really really structurally something.

And I was like, oh my god, Okay.

And lately I've been hearing this thing where you can't, like, if you have a question and you want to ask a writer a question that doesn't always get answered. In fact, lately it really doesn't get answered at all. I've been finding like, you know, I was on a show, and you know, I wasn't a series regular, but I had this massive scene to do and I really had a lot of questions and I just couldn't get any writer

What that is. I don't know if they I don't know what that is. It's weird.

And then I've worked recently on ones where they don't talk to us at all.

That's so wild. That is so crazy.

Have you guys not experienced this or I don't know.

If we're working as much as you are working as much as you.

I mean, I mean, and I don't want to be negative, but I do feel like there is this kind of corporate, kind of streamer model thing maybe happening where people are all in their own lanes and they're like not collaborating as much, and maybe someone comes up with a great idea but they don't have a lot of experience or something.

I don't know, I really don't know.

I also wonder if it's like remnants of COVID too, where like I was hearing like during COVID, like writers weren't allowed to come to the set, so then they wouldn't be there, like because like only actors can be near each other or because of like all these regulations and stuff.

Oh yeah, but they have email.

Yeah, or call you back on the phone.

Sure, yeah, you know the emails. I think.

I guess that most of our friends too, are like comedy writers, and I wonder if we're just like more desperate. But I feel like everyone I know that does comedy writing, there's like punch up on set, and people like all my friends that have done that seem to be very involved.

So I wonder, Yeah, you would think genre difference.

Well, I have a nut you're in One of my other favorite movies. In Her Shoes is like, oh, I watch it all the time. And Mark Firestein is gonna be a guest next week on the pod because he's in an SBO.

He plays like, what is this plastic surgeon? Rape guy?

And him and his girlfriend drug women and rape them. And then you find out that he actually started dating her when she was a child and made her get all this plastic surgery as they dated.

Oh, even worse, that's even worse.

Yeah, there's like a body in a wall and they're drugging a lot of young women.

There's a body in a wall.

Yeah, alright, alright, but he'll be on.

But I love that movie so much. It's like, oh, goody, one of my watches.

Did you enjoy it? What did you get? You film it in Philly? Or No?

I did film it in Philly. I did enjoy it.

It was hard originally because truth beat old. I gave one of the best auditions of my life for the part Tony Collette played.

In fact, I made.

The director cry in the room, and I was pretty certain I was going to get it, and I did not, So for a long time. My husband said it was his phrase. He would always say, you're you're not thin enough.

To be the fat girl in Hollywood.

Sorry, yeah, but uh yeah, I did have fun doing it. And I remember I had a baby then, so she like learned to walk, you know. That's how I remember these projects now, I guess, yeah, hundred, I'm a hundred yeah.

Wow was it weird being on set? How did you deal with your feelings on set and being this, you know, the friend.

I'm glad you're asking this because and I hope Tony hears this one day, because god damn it, I'm mortified.

We were shooting a.

Scene like where we're in a bed and we're I'm the best friend and she likes a guy and he doesn't like her.

So what are we doing. We're like, you know, moaning and eating candy like women do.

And actually I also took a tooth out in that scene with I think a juji fruit, if I want to know the whole thing.

But not once, not twice, three times I called Tony's character my character's name.

Like I didn't do it on purpose, obviously, but whatever my character's name was, if it was Betty, I was like so Betty, I don't think you And on the third time she was like, no, you're fucking Betty and I'm fucking and I.

Was like, my god, I'm so sorry, you.

Know, And I just thought, because I love Tony, I have no problem with Tony. I just I did want to play that part because you know, fat girls. I mean, Jesus, It's like, I know what that is. Okay, that's all I'm saying.

Yeah, the audition, Yeah, it's so funny. The auditions are always just like that. I get her, always like she loves eat lunch, she's a bitch at work, everyone hates her, and that's like all the descriptions of every one.

And then I I helped my Red. She's like, that's always a description that I help.

Our friend Sidney Washington is like a really beautiful, stereotypically beautiful woman, and I helped her read lines and the description was like Fox NBA players so hot, and I was like, it's so fun how we have such different different breakdowns, different breakdowns.

Oh my god.

I love the way that every woman is always described as being like unbelievably beautiful first, you know, yeah.

But she doesn't know it.

She never knows it.

She knows because if she knew it, because then she if she knew it one a nightmare exactly.

Or like a lot of my descriptions like disheveled, annoying, you know, but I'm happy to do it.

I don't know.

Yeah, she's available people.

Yeah, that's just so cool. I've known we haven't talked to someone.

I've never really heard an experience of like being on set with this like huge part that you really wanted.

That's like really wild.

Yeah, it was a lot.

I remember being like, oh great, I'm sloppy seconds they're going to give me scale and I got to be the friend.

I'll do it, you know, I'll be right there. Yeah.

Do you have anything coming up you'd love to share with our listeners to find?

Yeah, besides, what's the name of the book yet?

Wait? What book? I'm like, what book? Sunday Matinee.

Sunday Matinee. I love that.

Okay, Sunday Matinee by brook Smith coming out this fall. Everyone will check that out and then any other any like acting projects happening in the game A.

There is something in the can It's I don't think it's going to have that title though, that's the thing. It's an FX limited series with one of my favorite actors, Brian Tyree Henry.

Oh he's so good. I love him.

Oh my god, I love him too.

I will watch him in anything. I love it literally the same. I love him.

He's so I mean beyond. And Kate Marra and this guy Jake McDormand.

She's an SVU.

Oh I'll bet she is it happen to her something bad?

Or no, she was a bad girl.

Yes, she was a gymnast that killed her friend because she wanted to be the best.

Oh yes, oh, okay, yeah, I love that.

What season is that?

I'm all early like four or five. It's called Pixies. The episode is called Pixies.

Oh wait is the FX is it like a mystery Vibe.

It's kind of jumps all around in time, past, present, future, FBI AI. There's a lot of AI stuff happening. I'm an FBI instructor.

Oh, and it's all about my class right now. It's called Class of O nine.

And it's the Class of O nine and what happens to each one of them when they get out of Quantico and and one of them becomes the head of the FBI and maybe chooses safety rather than privacy. I guess it's all happening in real life right now in our country and others. Yeah, so that's that's what that is. I have no idea.

I haven't even gone and done ad R yet, so I don't know what it's all.

Right. Well, that's actually on the IMDb as class of O nine, so we'll have everybody check that out when it comes out.

This was really thank you so much. I truly was like, are we.

Gonna get Delia? Like, I was so excited to have you. Yeah, totally aka Catherine, aka all of the different awesome roles you've played.

Were so excited to talk to you. Thank you so much.

Thank you guys.

How do you feel Kara? Oh my god.

I just love her. I just want to hang out with her. And I don't think that she wants to. I don't think she feels the same. But I would like to think you pop up from doobesy. Yeah, so pot with me in the East village with her daughter.

I'll do it.

I was like when she said that, I was like, you're probably such a fun mom, Like I would love to be like the kind of mom that she is.

I bet no.

I actually walked through Thompson Square Park and thought of her on my latest New York visit. I was like, wow, this is where Brooks smoke pot so but I had just speed walk. I was running late to something. And you know, I've said this, I keep saying. I think I might have mentioned an intro. But I love that she brings up nepotism in a casual, real way, and I am honored.

And it's just like, thank you.

It doesn't make you less talented, it doesn't make you less worthy. It's just admitting that you had an in and it helped you. Yeah, what's the problem.

Yeah you got I tell everybody about my little legs up whenever I've gotten any But you know, I can't wait to see the next stuff that she does.

And I bet that that album, I bet that that.

Book of photography she does about the punk scene is like cool as hell. I bet that would be an awesome gift for like a coffee table book for.

Your cool, edgy arty friend.

And she gave us tea, I mean the Tony Collett tea. I mean that's like, she is great.

Love that. You know, It's funny.

We talked about auditions and stuff with her. So I did have a callback today and I took a sip of white Claw like on the call because it's like Ferner. But then they go love the white Claw, and I go, well, you know, I'm a little nervous, and then they go, we thought it was part of the character, and I went it was.

It was for sure, amazing. I love, but the character is whacky.

I only go out really for you wear your emotions right on your fucking sleeve, Liza.

I know I can't.

I mean honestly, like, we love doing this in the post mortem. But I did send Kara a screenshot of a disturbing text I just got and I cannot wait to discuss it with you.

It's like nuts, It's.

Like, okay, yeah, Brooks Smith was great, move it along.

What's the charity? I'm kidding, It's amazing and we It's.

Hard, honestly, on a macro serious level.

It's so hard to.

Envision change happening on a big stage because all of the power players are part of this trafficking sex, trafficking underage girl Ray. It's like, how do we crush a system when the judges and cops and district attorneys and all of them.

Everybody at the top has secrets. Everybody at the top has to protect their own ass. There's always like money. I mean, we just keep running into that, like in episodes that we're doing for this podcast of like, yeah, they were found guilty, but then they just appealed and appealed and appealed because they had endless money and then they were out.

You know, like it's just, uh, it's it's wild.

But that Ron Rifkin part at the end really like it encapsulates that. It's like, you guys don't know how fucking deep this goes. Like the shit goes really deep. I was just reading an article on that Hillary Clinton aide who got murdered in DC, and like there was a fucking pro Trump cop that was trying to meddle with the investigation.

Like there's just so much.

We look at other countries, like we look at like third world countries, We're like, look at all that corruption.

We have just as fucking much.

You know, we're just on another level with our corruption and worldwide.

I mean I remember like sometimes when you travel you meet people and they're just like, oh, well, I used to live in this country.

But then your country bombed it and now it doesn't exist.

Yeah, like oh yeah, my bad, Like it's just like international terrorism.

I hope they don't shut down this podcast. But we know the truth.

Oh, I would say another post mortem take away from this episode is like definitely the don't judge.

A book by its cover.

You would never run into someone who looks like Delia Wilson in her you know, little padded vests and Wellington's and think that she was leaving dead sex workers in beds of Captain Creagan and all this stuff.

So you know, just you never know what people are best.

Criminals are the most underground, because why do if you're flashy, you're not that deep, like yeah, right, or you're dumb like Teresa Judy che right right?

Like who?

Like okay, the BTK was like a pastor and like a family man. You know, there's like all kinds of of same with that Baker Butcher of Alaska, Like I mean with men, I always believe there can be a second side. What I like on this one is that it's a woman who's got this like devious sect. Like obviously I wouldn't like to see it in real life,

So fucked it.

It's just so fucked that people with power can just like humiliate a victim and like run their name through the mud until they don't want to press charges anymore, until they just like back down, and like it's it's so fucked up, it really is.

I just had a conversation with a comment We were talking about like warm up comedians for sitcoms, and it's like the people who entertain the people that are at the live tapings, the laughs that you hear, and they really have to entertain everyone for six seven hours.

It's really wild. Sometimes on their chin it's like nuts.

Not for a sitcom, he has, Oh my god, it's done it for sick.

It's it's called up down because like you have to get up. You have to sit down, like you have to just keep getting up. When they need a break, you just get up and like are like dance, monkey dance. You know, it's crazy.

I guess one of the hot shot ones a long time ago did a thing with an audience member where he like, did it you know that joke where it's like, oh, just kiss me on the cheek and then you move and you get kissed on the lips. Oh yeah, And so this woman ended up suing the network and getting all this money because this guy was talented and they wanted to protect whatever. And then we were talking about it and one comic goes, oh, come on, you're gonna.

Sue the network.

I go, you cannot kiss someone without their without say, but.

You have to say.

I'm like, I don't understand how this is even a conversation. I'm like, you shouldn't talk about this out loud. You think it's okay to trick someone into kissing you on the lips and you think, I'm like, he still has his job. So I don't know why you're so concerned that a corporation lost money. Of course they did, but it's like even these little things where it's like what

Yes, you can kiss someone on the lips at work, Yeah, that seems like something. Honestly, that seems like something Greg Kelly would do.

Oh my god.

And the audience at the show, there was like two lawyers that worked together and they pretended they weren't fucking, and it's like we I wouldn't leave them alone, and obviously they were fucking. But she kept like, weaseling out of my accusations, and I go, are you guys lawyers?

And she goes, how'd you know? I go, the way you're weaseling this stuff? Of course your lawyer is very apparent.

She's like, how do you know you're of course, we love all our listeners that are lawyers. But you guys are very good at weaseling out of conversation.

I'm done doing tangents. Let's move this saloon. Yeah, so sorry.

Let's get to this week's What would Sister Peg Do? You guys know what would Sister Peg Do? It is our weekly segment where we point you to a organization, a resource, an article, a book, something they can give you more info about what we touched on in today's episode.

Of some sort.

But this article does a good job of laying out the events of the crime in an objective manner and getting Maria de Toro's side of the story, which I think we all should hear. So you can find that article on BuzzFeed. We also linked to it in our show notes. We also put it on our Instagram stories the day that the show is released, and all of our what would Sister peg dos are saved into a highlight on our Instagram called WWSPD.

Thank you so much. Yeah, it was a good read. Thank you for highlighting.

And next week we'll be doing Plastic Season twenty, episode eleven. Get ready, bucks, it's wild, it's sexy. Maybe get some lube. There will be girls kissing bye guys. See you next week. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email. That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's mess step pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.

At glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien and.

To our mixer John Bradley.

And our guest booker, Patrick Cottner, and.

To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Star, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Dun Dun,