Resilience w/ Rachael Bella

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

I'm one of your hosts, Kara Klink, and I'm Liza Traeger. My voice sounds perfect. We talked SVU True Crime. We have celeb guests. We really have a ball over here, and I'm on the West coast. We're on the same coast again, so.

Yes, we're back, back back again. You've been sunny bright lights.

I feel like Winnifred Sanderson, you know from Hocus Focus.

I'm just like it makes me sick, That's what I know.

But I woke up with my laptop like on the bed, like I really, I don't know what happened.

Well, you've been doing not show.

Finding parking on trash day in this neighborhood took everything out of me.

And then finally.

This this house next to where I'm staying. They're kind of psycho Once if you walk by or anywhere near the house, it goes warning you are being recorded. Its full lights and it's full recording and I'm always flicking it up like you're psychotic and so nuts. Yeah, so they there's two spot parking spots in front of their house, like in theory, that's enough space, and then it's red the rest of the way.

Because La loves to paint a curb.

Bread can we make the decisions of when we can stop at the curb?

It's so fucked up, it's so fucked up this city.

But they put their trash can on the one good parking spot when half the curb is red. So I finally got out of the car and moved all their parking bins to the red. But I am on camera, so we'll see it happens.

But I'm just.

Call call cops. I know, I'm just gonna say you're a bad person on garbage. Like, yeah, there's there's already less parking. Girl, it's three in the morning. I gotta get in.

Yeah yeah, I put mine like out so somebody can park behind them. I mean it's always me parking behind them, but you know, anyway.

But yeah, this is a carriveting content here in for the riveting content of Bin movil Well.

Speaking of cops.

Jared had like a fucking like traumatic run in with the cops. Like he was trying to take my kids last weekend because I had the afternoon off to go to a party where I line danced, and he was taking our kids to this children's museum, but there was

I thought you were gonna get.

Arrested like these like over literally trying to go to a parking spot. He wasn't like driving up on a curb. He wasn't endangering anyone I just like fucking infuriates me how these like cops get on power trips like this and scream at people. And it's like, now you probably have like informed my daughter's reaction to cops like for the rest of her life, you know what I mean.

Yeah, they act like it's some sort of messaging that turns us against them, but it's like, oh no, I think as kids, we teach kids to go to cops, and you fucking didn't.

Yeah you didn't, Yeah exactly. It's like she fucking loves Paw Patrol, she loves Chase. She thinks cops are good. But we've tried to tell her there are some good cops and there are some bad cops. And I think Jared was just like that was not a good cop, like he was, And I was like, you know, you

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean La has been a blur, and I brought the New York to LA.

I am so busy.

I'm running around like a man woman, and I am ragged.

But we'll see.

But I signed up for more Soul Cycle than I brought workout clothes, so I do have to stop at Tjmax as well.

Oh add that to the docket. You should have brought laundry to my house the other day when you came.

I definitely should have, but you know, here like all day. But I would have to get fragrance free detergent.

That's what I have. Oh yeah, yeah, that was a big mistake.

I've been using that shit since I had kids. I don't know, I just like thought I grew up in a blue tide family. Now I'm a clear tide girl.

Okay, yea yeah yeah, but they should make a tide pod candy.

It does look good, like to confuse kids even more.

No for us, for us, That's what I'm want for us. Okay. So the Netflix is a joke. Festival is raging through LA ten days.

It seems never ending. It's never ending.

But I did a random show last night, best fish Taco or something. Oh yeah, that's outside packed as fuck, and he mentioned the festival and not one person knew about it. But so it's like we're so in it and it does seem so huge though, but a whole audience and people were like, we don't know what you're talking about.

Well, yeah, cause like that show Best Fish Taco is a great show.

It's very hipster. It's east Side.

It's like, these aren't the people that are spending two hundred dollars to go see like Brett Goldstein at the Forum or whatever at like the Palladia, you know what I mean. Like, it's kind of it's a different groups, I guess. But I love Best Fish Taco. I've had great, great sets there. It's such a fun.

Joe, it was a really fun show. I had a great time.

Wait you just said something that made oh you know the Assistance versus Agents Instagram?

No wait, you don't follow this.

That's like crazy because I used to be an assistant to an executive and I think I have a very.

Dude Assistance versus Agents. Everyone has to follow it or this is a mario. I think maybe huge.

I love this.

Yeah, wait, they might not be the one who posted this. There's a photo of Steve Corral and Ryan Gosling on the set of Crazy Stupid Love and over Ryan Gosling, it says people that go to Coachella, and then over Steve Corell, it says people who go to Netflix. As a joke Fitt and he has like a bad pollo. It was the wrong It's not on this instagram. I confused it. But this instagram is so good. You're gonna have so much.

I love this. I'm already perusing and loving it.

Yeah, absolutely so. I did do an hour show. We did see some people are my number one fan. I would say. Arsley did leave her husband at the Hollywood Bowl show Skip Seinfeld to come to my show, which I was like, girl, you don't have to do this. I'm quite accessible, like you'll see me another time. I'm out and about and for a really good price. But at that show there was a woman there who we ended up finding out does beverage creation for Starbucks.

And I said, well, what beverage did you create?

And she said, next Tuesday, that's my drink and it's trying out and we just check Google and her drink did drop. It is the Summer Berry Starbucks refresher. This is not a advertisement. I don't know this woman. I was just so impressed by she made this. This was her, she was on the plane.

She's in beverage innovation, and this is her drink. And it's a twitt what People magazine calls a twist on boba.

And it's got raspberry pearls in it.

It's like a blue drink that has like raspberry flavored, like you know, pearls at the bottom.

Yeah.

I think finally they're like Boba's hit a really like it's really now. I guess I would say they have really come into Yeah. Yeah, I don't like any I don't like those things. There's a oh I love boba so much.

I can't suck up a little ball of something it makes me. I can't.

Well, my sister likes the popping ones. That's not for me. I like the regular boba, but I fucking love it.

I fuck I love a melon honeydew.

A honeydew flavored boba is something I like.

But nice. This reminds me. So.

There's a Simpsons episode, the Twisted World of March I think it's called. But she is in this like women's group with all the other women in the Simpsons to be entrepreneurs, but she's like too chicken with money, so they kick her out and then they get a truck called Fleeta Pita, but it's not full awful. It's crunchy patties. It's not peta. It's like flatbread and they kind of white it all out and it's really funny. And then she goes into business with making pretzels and ye, you know,

Pearl What do you mean? Like it? It pops?

Yeah, they like pop. It's different. They're like a different consistency. The boba is tapioca. It's like thick, yeah, kind of hardy, a hardy ball, and the popping boba is like there's just a juice in it and it just releases. Yeah fast light. It's light and releasing. Maybe I would like

Boba and yeah, okay, okay.

So you can mix it with the drink, so it's like you have, you know, a watermelon.

Wait.

Also, another person I met at your at your Netflix is a Joke show was a listener named Christy and she had come all the way from Australia to go to Lovers and Friends, which was a festival I was dying to go see in Vegas, but the tickets were too expensive and my friend just kept being.

Like, I don't think that this is good.

Like she kept being like, there's no way all these artists are going to show up. It was a one day festival with literally everybody from like two thousands R and B that you would want to see, like a show one night, which was crazy, and te pain was on a different stage than the main stage.

Whatever.

I looked at the schedule, I was jealous, but in my head, I'm like, I thought it was like a scam. I was like, how did they get everyone in one day? I'm like, this seems too good.

To be it.

It seemed crazy, and it seemed like my friend kept saying, she was like, I don't think they're all going to show up. This like can't be true. And then literally they canceled the festival they like the day of or the day before because of the wind, because of.

The high winds. So then I went, I was right. I bet those artists aren't even in town. This was something. And then there was footage. I don't know if it's real or not, but I guess someone from their balcony in Vegas saw Usher was watching Usher rehearse, and then someone whispered something in his ear and he dropped to his knees and sadness, and so that's but that seems like you saw that from your balcony. This must be a lie. You saw Usher get the toll the news.

You watched him at the exact moment. That's so funny.

So but that made me be like, Okay, Lisa, you're becoming too conspiratorial, like relax. But it just seemed too good to be true, and I feel really bad for people.

But thank god it's canceled. In Vegas.

It's not like Bonnerou where you're in the middle of Tennessee and that's what I was to arre In fucking Vegas, I saw people going to Magic Mike instead, I saw people going to drag shows. Yeah, following me on Instagram you can go yeah yeah, And.

She got to see you And it was nice to meet all the listeners that I saw when I went to Lisa's show.

You guys are the best, the best. I ate all the Australian snacks. That's been my my little snack when I've been getting home, and honestly, for La, I've really been pushing it till two three in the morning, which is pretty cool.

Which is really cool because in LA's a sleepy little fuck.

La likes to go to bed, go to bed.

People are out and and I do have to tell everyone I was at the Tom Brady Roast. It was just as a viewer, one of the best nights of my life. Like I had so much fun. The jokes were so many and fun. There was pyrotechnics, and now that I know about football, I got certain like I got it. I knew what was happening, but I always forget if it's Roger or Robert Kraft.

It's like this fucked up thing while I will, I think it's Robert.

Yeah, okay, Robert Kraft. I have to remember, so we did cover his crime. But I did shake his hand, so I do have to tell the listeners. I did shake his hand at the after party. He was really loose with that hand. I wasn't even trying to shake it, but he came at me with the hand and I shook it. And you know, he is responsible for women being deported and house arrested.

Well, thank you for coming clean, Thank you for coming clean. I feel like a hand being thrust at you.

You shook it.

It's not like you talk to him and like hung out with him all night, you know, No, and a.

Limp limp haanshake. And I think he's elderly at this point. He was born in forty one. My dad has a better handshake than that, I'll tell you that much. But anyways, so it was weird and I just kept telling people like I covered his crime. I know about all about it, and it's actually a bigger story than you think. But you know, it's like it.

Is a bigger case what you were saying about Robert Kraft, like he did do a not good thing. And then it's like of all the jokes, that was one of the jokes that Tom Brady was like, don't write like was not one of the jokes, like of any jokes about him. Tom Brady was like stop, like and why it's it's public record for sure.

I think maybe I'm trying to think about Tom Brady and maybe he like maybe it's like, oh, that's my grandpa and he got a handy, you gotta leave him alone.

And it's not about the handy.

It's about, you know, to me that he hired one of the like you know, like bad guy lawyer. He hired one of those he had like this insane legal team. He like fought it to the end even though it wasn't even a real charge, like move on with it, and those women really suffered. And it's to the cops and all these investigators in the name of saving human trafficking victims, but it wasn't. And they fucked up these women's lives and deported that and shit.

And so.

It's like the principle of all of it. I don't think getting a handy in a massage parlor is bad, now, that's what I mean. It's like bigger than this one guy, but it's like he fought it so hard for so for nothing and like got to just take a private jet to a game and live on And Tom Brady's like, don't fucking talk about that. Ye yeah, and you know who knows what these women are up to now after these criminal records their jobs were taken away like yeah.

But also so what we found out is, you know, it was like.

Are they human traffickers or are they just poor? And that's what poor people have to do, and that that like us as a collective were more unwilling to accept that this was by in quotes choice or were they scared of the upper up bosses like in the episode? Right, yeah, right, If you want to listen to this, this is an older episode we've done.

The guests was Margaret Cho.

So yeah, this is the counselor. It's Chinatown episode that we covered a long time ago.

Besides you know, shaking this old dirty man's hand. I did meet Julian Edelman, who's you know, a new sports podcast. And wait, casey, you don't know this. Oh my god, I gotta show you my photo. I've been showing everyone. I cannot stop and listen. I've met some stars. He I don't know. It's just like I feel like a young girl again and this is my Nick Carter.

It's like so thrilling. But I did meet Julian Edelman.

Athletes are different than our our famous art type people because athletes are trained.

They posed with kids out, they pose with us.

Like I saw Julian Edelman walking into the arena. I was at the VIP entrance. No big deal. I did do the carpet. The photos could look better and I should have gotten my makeup professionally done, but I tried to be like too cool.

I was like, this is an event, but I'm not gonna go all out.

And I was like, should have gone all out, absolutely biggest event of the year. But he walked by and people just hop out, like can I take a selfie?

No questions asked.

They just athletes fucking pose you can take photos of them.

Yeah, it's different.

Please tell everybody my message that you were distributing on the red carpet when people interviewed you about my thoughts about Tom Brady.

Yes, so any questions that I got asked, I was just like, listen. Eighty for Brady is based on four real women and he refuses to meet them, and I think that's bad and he must meet them.

Yes, justice for the eighty for Brady women. But Nikki, oh, so I didn't realize this.

I was talking to my friend who had, you know, worse seats than me, so she saw more of the arena and she told me that it was interesting. As the men announced, they all got standing ovations and stuff, but Nikki did not.

Nikki like, they just sat for Nicki.

But the only standing ovation after a performance was fucking Nicki Glazer and the whole arena stood up.

It was electric.

My sister texted me that she could hear me screaming in the They watched.

It, but like you, oh my god, I gotta watch it.

The camera was really behind us, and you know, I pee so often, and it was kind of a nightmare having to like figure out how and when to pe. But it was just I love roasts. I miss it. I miss watching them. I love me and quick jokes. I love people laughing on a dais And it really felt cool being there. And even and I hate some of the people performing, two of the people I really dislike and don't respect the most were up there. Didn't affect my good time, Like that is how much fun was?

Yeah, that's so great, that's so great. Yeah, I mean everybody's like it's it's a hit. Everybody's truly talking about it. But wait, we are getting the twenty minute flag from Casey, so let's get the episode started. But really quickly, I wanted to just say, oh, please.

Buy ticket, reserve seats. Come to my Netflix special taping. It's June foesth eight and ten o'clock in New York at the Comedy Cellar at the Village Underground. Yeah do that please? So come, Yeah, go to that. That's gonna be so you're gonna be a part of history. You're gonna be on Netflix. Baby if you go watch that, well, I mean they probably won't show you, but you know you'll your laughs will be immortalized forever on a streaming platform. Oh but you know what, listen, I had my high eyes,

And yeah, some comics have a specific audience and they just want their person.

I don't know. That's crazy though.

I mean, they wouldn't even clap when I walked out. They saw me and stop clapping, and I'm like, listen, I know the guy before me is famous and rich, but no one respects him. And so that's why I was feeling good too. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna follow this guy. This is gonna be great. I'm gonna do some immigrant material. We're gonna vibe. And then they

I wanted to do my return to the Palladium. Oh my god, that was.

A twenty eighteen. The stage manager is so good at her job. I go, I saw Lizzo here she goes that was twenty eighteen, and I.

Go, she sure was? I guess it was. No, it wasn't she's wrong day.

I saw Lozzo in twenty nineteen because I had had Rosie, and remember I was like, I was like, can I take Mollie?

But I was breastfeeding, so I didn't. Well, I guess, you know, fuck her drag. Couldn't call her out.

Sorry, I just know because I wanted to take Molly at Lizzo and I was like, fuck, I'm breastfeeding, and I was googling, like can you take whatever?

You know?

I figured out I decided not to take the risk, but last little announcements.

Go to That's messed Up live dot com and you'll see our merch little button where you can get guys. The T shirt and the mug are sold out. The toe bag is still available of the do you have children Detective, we are going to get more T shirts. There's other stuff up there that's like on sale, and you know some of our tour merch if you didn't get a chance to grab it when you saw us

On, go there. And now I believe we can just start this big bad boy.

Right dude, Yeah, but now I'm on Robert Kraft's Wikipedia and he's a self made man.

Okay, let's start the episode.

I what kind of shocks most billionaires aren't? Most billionaires are, but he sold newspapers.

I don't know. I'm wow. I just that's really rare. I don't really think that one.

I think, if true, it's usually it's usually even when they say they're self made, it's like their grant, their dad gave them a million dollars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, which could have happened here, you know what I mean. But it's got scholarship to college. Oh okay, so okay, it is what it is. Listen. The merch is good, life is good. I hope everyone's doing great. This episode one of our favorites. So really have a good time, guys, because we should did here.

We go, all right, we're doing Resilient, one of the most I will say, fucked up episodes.

I thought you were gonna say most requested because I feel like I've been waiting to do this one.

Young Ti Ti me.

This pops up in my head as Lisa really loves this one, wants to do this one.

Yeah.

So season four, episode ten, this Baby's coming out two thousand and two, and we start on a subway platform, which I love. Whenever they can get on the subway, I love that.

Even though one of my most.

Haunting episodes takes place on a subway. So one guy is telling another guy on the subday platform about his nephew and his wife trying to use an intercom baby monitor to talk to the kids, which I do use to talk to my own children, and you know, I terrorize them. And the guy being told the story is sort of like he feels uninterested in it, but also he clocks a teen girl looking very bummed and maybe is in like a Catholic school uniform. And the train

I really don't know where it was going.

Okay, So we cut to Benson Stabler walking with Finn, who's giving them all the info that this girl tried to quote donate her body to the Downtown Express. She's not wearing underwear, her shirt is torn, she's got bruises on her thighs, no id, she's not talking, so they find her on a stretcher and she won't respond to Olivia's questions, and then Stabler's like, I got a daughter your age, and I would really want to know what happened to her so I could be there for her.

I googled this and you.

Can't really find a reference to this past like nineteen ninety nine. So I don't know if Chromatica is still popping off in London, but if it is, let us know. So now they're focusing on the video of Jackie coming down the stairs. They spot a guy behind her who seems to be following a bit too close, and then as soon as the girl gets saved from jumping in front of the train, this guy takes off, so sketchy behavior all around. They blow up the logo on his

He goes right away, dah, and it's printed like it was the quickest of the blow ups I've ever seene.

Yeah, and it says Mercury Bike Messenger Services. And the kid is ideaed as Carl Sirett. He got fired last month for spending too much time with his girlfriend. Plus

And if you're not into Bosh.

You might remember that this guy, this actor Titus Welliver, actually comes back as evil bearded lawyer Rob Miller in the episodes Blackout, Assumptions and Endgame in season twenty, so he does come back into the SBU universe. He thanks Benson and Stabler for finding Jackie.

They were worried.

He says, Jackie doesn't have a boyfriend, and Stabler's like, okay, well, we got to get DNA from all the male family members and it's just procedure, and they even want it from her twelve year old brother Gary, and he's like, whatever you need, so he's cooperating. Jackie says she was walking home from school when a guy grabbed her. She had taken a shortcut through a parking lot. She heard a car pull up behind her, and a guy pushed her in. She didn't even get a look at him.

They drove for a bit.

He pulled her out. They walked down some steps. She heard a door open. Then he tied her to the bed, took off her clothes, and then he quote unquote did it. She says she escaped after he was done, and after he had left, and they show her a photo array and she immediately points out the guy that was following her at the subway station, but she doesn't know if he's the one who did it. She was blindfolded, so they ask if she remembers anything else about this man,

She's like, he made me feel it.

So now we've got the bike delivery dude in the dark bars interrogation room and he does not give a fuck.

This guy.

And the actor's name is Billy Lush and he is still working. He's on he's been on Black Donnelly's Low wintersn and Bosh. So why did you run when this girl almost jumped in front of a train?

He said. He's like, you guys had it under control.

Like he's just got like douche voice, you know, And he says, I never saw a jockie before, and then munch reads allowed from his prior file like, oh never saw this girl, never met the bitch. They're like, sounds like a pattern, bro, and he's like, well, you better learned to read because the charges were dropped, and it's like, do you think that this man with transitions lenses does not read? Munch reads and Carl also declines to give a DNA sample. He's like, no, so that none of

Pulled out of the river two years ago.

No head, no fingers, but Mark's consistent with Jackie's.

So they're like, cal.

Warner, see if she can dig up the body. Okay, guys, Finn and Munch pass them and go. Carl has to go to the bathroom. They've got Carl with him. In the bathroom, we see Munch kind of peeking down at Carl's junk and while he's peeing, and Carl goes jealous and munches. I believe the technical term is a prince Albert, which I did google really quickly and read it is one of the most common male genital piercings. And he says,

Next to him. He's not under arrest.

If I went in to just talk to the cops and it was like, hey, I have to pee and they were like, cool, we have to come with you and watch you do it, that would be weird, but something that stuck out to me anyway. In the next scene, we see our old pal, Gina Bernardo aka Ileana Douglas, who we just talked about recently because she was the attorney for Jeremy Brice in Juvenile And also I'd like to point out that a friend of ours went on a date with Jeremy Bryce right after we covered this episode.

Uncuff him and let him go.

And Finn's like, he's under arrest, and Munch says, subway cameras show the victim trying to take her own life to get away from this guy, and Gina's like, that's hardly proof of rape. Munch brings up that Jackie mentioned the piercing, and Gina says, so he's the only man in New York City with us, Pierce Schlong, and you know we can put that in the coffee table book.

Of spu lines.

And she's like, you guys just happened to see his privates when you took him to the bathroom after you poured soda down his throat for five hours.

Then she takes all.

The soda cans and it's like, you think you're gonna get a free DNA sample and she's like, I want to talk to the ADA. So if you're a fucking douchebag nineteen year old, you want this woman to be your lawyer. You know she has got your back. So now Gina is on a very brisk walk and talk with Craigan in cabot. They feel like they are jogging, and Daddy Craigs says that it is procedure to escort suspects to the restroom, but I just feel like maybe not pissing right next to them.

I don't know.

She wants to know if inspecting their genitals is also procedure, and she's like, you guys bamboozled this boy into thinking he was in custody when you knew you didn't even have probable cause to keep him in custody, which means everything you obtained, including a glance at his junk, is inadmissible. Craigan tries, uh, why Watters, didn't you just give us the DNA and Gina's like fuck no. Seu in chambers cabin is nervous because she's like, Gina's got a point.

Now?

We cut too, and we talk about this a lot lately, but these early episodes they really just show you whatever.

I just don't know why it's Chelsea do.

They don't really explain it, and I tried to google it and I didn't really find anything.

So if anyone knows.

Melinda says, this one pissed her off because the perp went to such lengths to make sure that this that the victim couldn't be ideed. She compares the marktings and she says, yeah, these are similar, but not the same. Chelsea does are from rope burns, whereas jackies look like they were done from like furniture straps, like straps that you would use to like, you know, in a moving you'd see in a moving truck or whatever.

Very specific.

Melinda doesn't know if Chelsea was sexually assaulted because she'd been in the water for two weeks, so that would have washed away any evidence. She was in her late twenties fingers and head were cut off with some kind of cleaver, but she was strangled first. She also has news on the Jackie front. She's like, it turns out there were two rapists because she got two DNA samples and one of them has traces of mava statin in it, which is a medication for high cholesterol.

And it's probably in my future because I have high cholesterol.

So maybe Carl had an older partner, they think, because like, you didn't match the dad, the semen didn't match the dad.

So they go back to talk to Jackie.

At the Landrix's house, we meet Jackie's mom, Angie, who was played by Cynthia Edinger, and you might also remember her as the mom who in the episode we did called Shaken shook her baby because she wanted to just have a nice date with a mediocre man and her daughter would stop crying. So she's the mom from that.

You know, I kept them home today.

She's talking to the cops when Jackie shows up in the doorway, they obviously want to talk to Jackie alone, so in that Jackie's room lives, like, hey, so it looks like there were two men. Did you hear two voices? And Jackie's kind of like, no, I didn't like whatever.

Has Jackie been bad? Can I have your pen?

Like she's, you know, a little precocious Stabler reads the name on two pill bobbles.

I really love a chatty, precocious kid who's gonna give them evidence. Yes, Like they're gonna hug Stabler's leg and give them something and be like my sister said this, Yeah, I just love these little ghost kids that help the investigation.

Truly, so many ghost kids on this series and get scared of the authorities.

Nothing just ready ready, to help and psychologically traumatized. Yeah, so little Sally is like, oh, so while Stabler's, you know, chatting away with Sally, he happens to pick up two pill bottles that are just sitting willy nilly, and Stabler asks Sally who's James Randall and she goes, he lives with us, and Stabler's like, is he old like me?

And Sally goes worse and then takes off. And I love a burn too. These kids do know how to give, like a very honest burn. So when Stabler goes back into Jackie's room, he asks about James Randall and she's like, yeah, he's lived down the hall for a couple of months, but he's never bothered me. And Jackie's like getting annoyed. She's like, why are you asking me all these questions? And then she storms off. So Stabler tosses the pill bottle to Benson and goes, guess who takes Miva Staton

I don't know? Anyway.

Top of AAC two, we've got this Randal guy in interrogation and he goes, just because I have high cholesterol doesn't mean I raped anybody. And it's like, I don't think anybody's suggesting.

That, sir.

I think we should put that on a T shirt.

As a person with a genetically high cholesterol, I would wear it.

No.

Finn and Munch are questioning him, and he says, he does say Jackie's kind of hot, but schoolgirls aren't my thing. All right, bro, you could have just said nothing. Say less is what we're saying here, like you don't need to comment on that the hotness of a fifteen year old child. Munch wants to know why a hot shot at exec is slumming at living with a family in a house that is also a daycare, and honestly, same question. And he's like, I had some bad breaks, So what

Olivia announces to.

The group that Jackie has cervical dysplasia, and then she goes, so, our girl with no boyfriends has had a lot of them, And I just want to say, I googled cervical displasia and it's caused by HPV, which is sexually transmitted. But you can just have sex a couple times with the same person and get it. So it's like Olivia jumped right to classic slutshaming, which is.

Very Also what's crazy is you know there's no test for men to see if they have HPV, and it's because it doesn't really affect them and they could just give it to women and causes them cancer, but they won't create a test for the guys.

I know, I don't know why we can't test for it.

Well, it's because there's probably they just don't care enough. Because it's also like, why isn't male birth control a thing because there's just too many side effects and men don't.

Do Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I got a joke about it. It's wild, but I had I think I had cervical displaysia and I had one boyfriend like at the time, you know, like I've had that, So it's like, that's not it just was a weird thing to be like, turns out she's a slut. But I get it's a TV show.

We need to move on.

Well, especially for Benson. We could have had someone else say it right exactly.

But what we're getting out of this is Jackie's been lying about her sexual history. She was not a virgin before this attack, and she you know, you know, there's something else going on here. Stabler's like, I bet she didn't want her dad to find out. And it turns out also the judge denied the order for Carl's DNA based on police misconduct.

Which, like, we can't say what we will about this show.

It is copaganda in a lot of ways, but they do point out stuff like this, like they don't get what they want because they mishandled the situation, you know what I mean, Like, and this is season four, like so they're not completely like the cops can do no wrong, Like Finn and Munch fucked this up, and now they don't have this guy's DNA because they apparently coerced him into self incrimination by bringing him into the bathroom cab.

It's like, this is your guy's fault.

And Craigan tells Finn and Munch to try to connect Carl the Penis piercer and Randall the broke executive, and then he sends Benson is able to figure out whose Jackie's boyfriends are, you know, the several several boyfriends at the school. They're talking to miss Bowen, and she is a teacher that you want, right She does not want to give up her student's personal business to the cops. But Olivia's like, hey, come on, girl, we're on the same side here, and she says, well, Jackie is really bright.

I mean, it is hard at high school.

So I knew freshmen that dated juniors and seniors, you know, like or sophomores that dated seniors after they graduated and stuff too, like, so like she's like, it was consensual. I stopped when I when uh, and it stopped when I found out. So she's like, I didn't want to take it to the cops over this, but she suggested they talked to the parents, but Jackie begged her not

It's a television show anyway.

They're like, Jackie, you gotta tell us everything, and she's like, I am.

You just won't believe me.

Can I go now? And she like asked her dad if she can leave. So now they're just talking to Bosh and he's like, so, Carl's in the clear. What about Randal and lives like, well, we questioned him, but without Jackie's ID, we really can't hold him. Also, he did offer up his DNA, so you know, it's like they're not doing anything with him. And Stabler's like, I got a big question. Why would you rent a room to a forty year old man right next to your

Here.

She's like, I got you a president and it hams him this bracelet and she goes, don't tell. So this is a little bit a little little creepy. What's this bracelet all about? So now, Huang and Sabler are walking and talking. He wants to know what's up with Sally. She's unusually friendly. She asks strangers for presents, she gives them presents. She's just a little bit too affectionate. And Huang is like, yeah, sometimes that's a sign of abuse.

He's like, that's sick. Who do you guys think I am?

Then he admits I had sex with Angie Landrix, but I never touched the girl huge dundune that we did not see coming. He says, why would I mess with jail bait when I can get it from her?

Mom's a great question.

Cragan is on the other side of the glass with Stabler. If we already have his DNA in the girl and he puts himself in the apartment, why would he be holding out and telling this wild story?

You know.

Stabler thinks maybe he's doing both of them and he doesn't want to cop to the statutory and then knock knock, Benson comes in. The other DNA sample result came back and it's not Carl Surrett. It is James Randall, the ad executive border, So what.

Is going on?

Stabler goes like the jackass who gave up his DNA, Like, what's going on? Why would this guy give his DNA if he did this? Now we've got said jackass back in interrogation and he still swears he did nothing to Jackie. They show him a picture of Charles Eno and he goes, yeah, I know that guy from the club I go to, and they want to know if this is some kind of joint project between him and Charles, but he's like

Fucking mom is fucking this guy too? What is happening?

And lives like that's ballsy to do it under the husband's nose, and Randall goes, well, he paid me to do it.

Done done.

What's going on here? Apparently mister Landrix likes to watch. So now the gang at the top of AC three is gathered around the bulletin board and they are all confused. Huang swoops in and says, I think the dad is a sexually obsessive narcissist, and Craigan goes, you're telling me this guy gets his kicks from prostituting his wife and daughters and it is straight out of the Milaney special where he's like, you tell me, this guy gets off a little girls with pigtails, so I love that moment.

So that way, when.

Somebody like Stabler comes into the house, it's like, oh, let's do that with this man too, And he explains like yeah, the kids don't say anything because he's their dad and they love him. Huang says it's called child's sexual abuse accommodation syndrome, and I did look this up, and the accommodation syndrome has five stages. One is secrecy, the nexus helplessness, The next is entrapman and accommodation. The

And then she goes to Jackie, what have you done?

And Jackie softly says, I'm sorry and like it's it's so fucked. And then two little boys get brought out and there's no record of their parents in the home. So what does the mom say? Nothing I can repeat, the social worker says. So Stabler taps his a little pal, Sally our ghost child, to identify the boys, and she's like, that's Philip and that's Antoine. And he's like, who's their mom? And Sally goes, mom is and Stabler's like, no, who's their real mom? And she said, my mom is stupid.

Who are their dads? They asked? She goes, I don't know.

Stabler's like, how does the big family man feel about all this? And she says he wanted me to have these kids. Sally was his last biological child. He can't have anymore, so he just pulls men off the streets and lets them play in seminators. Stabler asks. She says, Tom wanted more kids and I wanted to keep him happy. And Benson's like, how long are you going to keep this up? And She's like, I can't give him any

And she goes, it's wild.

He screams in she goes, that's disgusting, and Stabler goes, you're disgusting. You are It's a top ten Maloney moment, and she's like, I want to talk to Tom.

We would never hurt our children, you know.

She's basically just like breaking down. She cannot really operate outside the existence of her husband. Benson and Stabler are on their way to talk to Jackie when Craigan fills them in that Jackie's been moved to a treatment center after some kind of you know, mental breakdowns. So in walks Bosh aka Tom Landrix, demanding to know where.

His kids are.

He calls Stabler bastard and is like, I trusted you, and Stabler go was then your kids trusted you and they have this like harmless little.

Slap fight before they get pulled apart by other people.

So now we're at the treatment center and Huang and Benson are watching Jackie play with dolls in one of these like kid playrooms through an observation window, and Huang goes, it's regression in service of the ego. When the president gets too frightening, people try to escape to a safer time. So he says, children are very fragile and resilient, which is, you know the episode's name, So you can drink unless you're in the car right now or at work, or

She says, her dad.

Told her that her mom couldn't have a baby and that made him sad. He asked her to help him, and he wanted her to have a baby. She didn't want to, but she said, but he said she was old enough and that she had to do it for the family. He took her to the bedroom, took off her clothes, told her to lie down on the bed. Then I saw he had a syringe.

She said.

I tried to get away, but he caught me, tied me down. Then I saw my mom. I begged her to stop him, but she wouldn't. He put I mean a second episode in a row where a mom is just like letting the dad like do something that you know she's not but she could be helping to stop. He pushes the syringe into her and says, good girl, and then Stabler gives Jackie a hug, and we've got the whole story now.

So top of act.

Four, we've got friend of the Pod Jill Marie Lawrence aka Cleo Conrad in a prison cell with her client Tom Landrix, and she said, look, he's ready to plead guilty. To promoting prostitution, and Cabot's like, lady a misdemeanor. He tied down his own daughter and tried to inseminate her. And then it turns out that Angie denies that happen, forensics prove that Tom's not the one that raped her, and the apartment search turned up nothing. This is all a figment of a disturbed child's imagination.

Cleo says.

Cabot's like, the forensics will actually confirm Jackie's story, and then Cleo goes low and says, no one will buy Jackie's crazy story now that she's been transferred to a psych facility, and Cabot's like, oh, bitch, you want to go low. Once the jury hears he pays strangers to fuck his wife, I think they'll get on board with.

The other stuff.

So it's a really great little tit for tat there. And then Cleo goes, if you put Jackie on the stand, I'll be forced to bring up her muscuity, her false rape accusations, and her lies. And she tells Alex take the deal, and then Tom Landrix goes, I love my daughter. I would never heard her, and Cabbot goes shut up. I'll see you in court. So we cut to court where Cabot is questioning Jackie about the bruises on her body the night she was attacked and ended up in

She makes eye.

Contact with her dad and then Cabot tries to get in between them, but it kind of feels like it's too late. She's already fallen under her dad's spell. She's like, Jackie, who did this? And she's like, I don't know, and she pretty much freezes up at all of Cabot's questions. Cabot rolls out the record of her grand jury testimony where Jackie told the whole story about her dad, and Cabot starts reading her quotes, but Jackie says, I said what you wanted me to say. So she's fully renagging

On the story me too, because so stressful and perjury.

Yeah, because our ada's really can't be prepared for something like that, Like they've already gone over testimony with someone and then they fully won eighty on them.

So she's like, I saw nothing. I was blindfolded.

I told you I was scared, and that policeman talking about Stabler told me to say my dad did bad things to me. But my dad wouldn't do that. I just know he wouldn't. And so who did them? She says, I don't know. And Cleo gets to cross examine and she's like, one question, did your mom and dad ever hurt you?

Jackie says never. Ugh, it's tough. It's tough.

The layers of trauma here are tough to peel back. So back at the precinct, there's a lot of info flying around. Oh I heard Tom Landrix is getting his family back. Plus Jackie's pregnant. She wants to keep the baby. Craigan's like, what happened in the morning after pill isn't that standard. By the time they got to the hospital, the parents were already there, so they must have talked her out of taking it.

Of course, because this is their big plan. I guess. I don't get.

Which they never get to is after this happened, they just let her, kind of traumatized, walk out of the house to the subway.

I don't know, I don't know.

So they're joking about how these little kids Philip and Antoine are about to be uncles when they're only two and four, and that kind of gives Finn a little like light bulb moment where he's like, huh, if Angie got her hysterectomy two years ago, why doe he waits so long to turn Jackie into the baby farm? And it's like, I don't know, maybe because he thought fifteen was better than thirteen, but whatever, and they're like, maybe he's tried this before. Maybe he tried this with Chelsea Doe.

He says.

He enjoys violating the rights of other people, which is the mark of an anti social personality, but he also has schizotypal features which provoke him to act out his fantasies. He points out that the restraints show that he keeps their arms and legs free so that the victim will fight, which makes his dominance more satisfying. So Huang's like, Yeah, I think this guy could kill and I think he could.

Grow to enjoy it.

Yikes, this is getting more twisted by the second. So at the precinct, Olivia has pretty easily discovered that two and a half years ago, a twenty eight year old named Karen Stenslin gave the landrix to address at the DMV, and there's been no movement on her Social Security number since Chelsea Doe's body was found. Only living relative this one has is a grandma living in Teaneck, New Jersey. So now we're talking to a classic guess for you.

Karen in a long time. She moved to Europe.

I know phones are expensive, but I wish she'd call. And she talks about this postcard that she got is the last time she heard from her, and the postcards sitting right there. Sabler notices that it's postmark Manhattan, so it hardly came from Europe. And the Grandma's like, no, I found out. She's like, I found out about the Europe thing from the nice man that Karen nannied for. And Sabler picks up a photo of Karen and goes, is this Karen? And what's this bracelet that she's wearing?

End.

If the cops show up, I guess let them talk to them. They're like, Sally, what remember that bracelet. She's like, yeah, I want it back, and they're like, well, who gave it to you? And she says, nobody. I took it from Jackie's drawer. So then Jackie walks up and she's very down to talk to the cops, who she did not trust at the trial, and she tells them, no, it's not mine, it's Karen's. But she went away, and then she says, I found the bracelet in Karen's room

Dig through two feet of solid concrete.

But after they get started, they just let detectives dig through it themselves.

Stablers on his hands and knees with his big.

Ass in the air, just removing chunks of debris from this place. It's like, I feel like there's a team that has to do this, more like in an archaeological dig style. But whatever, we had to get Sablers butt and hands into the situation.

Yeah, it's very stucky vibes, honestly, just getting in there, no rhyme or reason.

Right, So Sabler finds a skull wrapped in a flannel shirt very nineties, and Olivia finds the missing fingers, like just loosely strewn about as well, So now we feel like we've kind of closed this. In interrogation with Tom and Cleo again, they give him the four one one about finding Karen's head and fingers and he's like, no way, Karen's in London, and he says I would never hurt Karen and then accuses Stabler of setting him up and

Yeah, that's I guess that would be a lot for you to do.

Olivia is like, we know it's Karen. We checked her mitochondrial DNA against her grandmother, So bitch, you thought you could just chop off her head and chop off her fucking hands. They figure out other ways to identify people. Stabler's like, I've had it.

With this guy. Next time I see you're gonna have a needle in arm.

Keep denying it, and he walks out, and Olivia's like, Okay, what happened Tom? Because you know, maybe Tom will talk to like a woman more because he's this narcissistic, crazy person, and maybe Stabler threat threatens him. So he's like, she tried to destroy us. She said she'd have a baby, and then she backed out, said she'd tell have our kids taken away. And his lawyer's like, shut the fuck up, but he just can't. He's like, I had to protect my family. If there are no children, the family dies.

It's like the John Stamos episode, Yeah, productive abuse, but worse, yes, way.

Worse, because that's a guy that's just like, as spread my kids around Manhattan. This guy's like, make my children have them, Like, oh, he is not good, and he says, they're like, what about Jackie. She tried to run away. Were you gonna kill her too? He says, I'd never hurt Jackie. Well you kind of did, bro, She's got a baby inside of her that you put there, And he looks like a little bit happy to hear that. He says, Jackie loves me, she knows I her, She'll

And I'm done with that shit.

So she walks off and that's dick wolf baby twist turns.

It's like such a classic.

Kind of it's just weird that like, at the same moment as that happened, she passed the deli where her ex boyfriend with a penis piercing happened to be hanging out and he followed her down there. That's just like the only part of it that's a little bit like TV. But I guess we had to have like a Red Herring. We had to have a person that was like we thought was the bad guy.

Right absolutely, and yeah, get ready for the crimes. I'm excited. I hate to say it.

Okay, So there is a case that Kara is very excited to hear, and they're known as Britain's worst serial killers, and we will get to that, but I do want to cover the semen of it all. And that is a different case, and that's the case of Shenna Grimm. And so John Goff is an Ohio man and he forced his stepdaughter Shenna to be inseminated with his sperm when she was sixteen because the mother could.

No longer conceive.

So yeah, straight up, like you know, we we know Neil Bear read this and.

Some local paper and he got his hands on it, like get me my laptop.

Yeah, So Goff and his wife in December nineteen ninety eight asked Grim to be injected with his seamen and so Narda. The mom she met Golf when Shana was four years old. And you know he has all the like trappings of no good for us, for us, you know, ex marine volunteer, auxiliary cop. He had seven guns and a street evangelis evangelist evangelist evangelist, street evangelist.

So those are not the four you want to hear. Those are great preachers. Street preachers are like always killers.

I feel like I wish I said preacher instead of trying to say evangelist. But the auxiliary cop of it all is probably my biggest in the seven gon whatever. So she did agree to do this, but it's because he threatened her with a gun. He put a gun to her fucking head and said he would hurt her mother if she did not comply.

So that's not agreeing.

Yeah, yeah, it was a rape to fulfill his desire to procreate. According to Grim, the mom started charting her fertility cycle when she was ovulating, John would ejaculate into a cup then put it into one of Narda's syringes. Because she had MS, so she would inject medication into herself. And so then Shenna became pregnant at sixteen years old. She gave birth to a boy in nineteen ninety nine, and eventually she did place them into foster care in two thousand and one. She said she could not care

But was the point of it not for the parents? Did the guy who did this not want to have the baby or he just wanted to like spread his seed more?

Well, she had a fiance. I'll get into that. I'll get into that. Your brain is going to the right place for an amateur detective. We are, you're doing good. So and then at first nobody believed her. They all thought it was too creepy and sadistic to fathom. And it's like, have you been living under a rock for all of humanity? Like, okay, even her boyfriend. So then he became a fiance. I don't know what happened to her post like this case, And I honestly didn't dig

Oh my god, it's nuts.

And then this you're gonna love this this is such a twist. This is like an SVU thing. I can't even believe it. So in the nineties, Goff and the wife Narda campaigned for tougher state rape laws. They were activists. So their activism was sparked because a man got acquitted for molesting Grim and at the time, the law required intercourse for a rape charge. And because of that law that they changed, he was tried under a tougher state rape law.

Oh my god.

So basically, in July nineteen ninety three, the family attended a neighborhood party and then two weeks later she told her mom. During the party, a neighbor, a thirty five year old named John Eggert, raped her and threatened to kill her family if she told anybody. The case was very straightforward, but until Grim hit the stand and she could not definitively say or no if he used his penis or fingers, and up until the nineties, if it wasn't a dick, it wasn't rape.

Oh my god, Like that's why she was a kid, she was little. Oh my god.

It's just crazy, Like when people are not clear about the importance of feminism and like all of this like into the nineties in the state of Ohio, if you used an object or another thing, or force someone to do oral or anything not rape.

It had to be a dick in penetration. Oh my god.

Like if you put a finger in a child against her, what are you talking about? Ah, how is that not rape? He got fucking acquitted. Oh my god, but GoF legit. The dad was like, what's the difference what he raped her with? Rape is rape? So a bill was drafted in nineteen ninety six, and after spending two years waiting through the Ohio legal systemading one hundred and twenty two letters to legislators, it finally became law, and so June

Agreed to carry the child. So that's the defense. They're like, she agreed to have the baby, so how is it a cray?

And so then Goff and her own mother, Narda, testified that this was the daughter's idea.

But during the trial he had a boyfriend me while she had a boyfriend.

Yeah, she really wanted to carry her stepdad's baby, right, yeah, yeah, got it?

Oh my god.

And then during the trial, you know, this motherfucker was quoting Bible verses. He said he forgives everyone, including the judge, police, prosecutors, and his stepdaughter. But then finally April two thousand and six, they got to do a retrial and the jury convicted his ass of rape, sexual battery, and child and dangering.

I mean, I bet he's gonna get released soon.

Yeah.

Narada Goff was convicted March two thousand and two of helping her husband impregnate her daughter. She was sentenced to three years, but she was released from prison in two thousand and three after only serving eight months. I think three years is too little. The fact that it was only eight months is like sickening to me. Grim At twenty had been diagnosed with PTS depression and she did

You can just say damages, compensatory.

Compensaitory damages, and then seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars in punitive damages. The jury also ordered Akron City Hospital to pay two hundred and twenty four thousand dollars in damages since when they asked her who put who to put down? As the dad on the birth certificate. She did say her stepfather's name. They didn't do anything about it. Hospital records also show, Oh, it gets worse. Hospital records also showed that he made inappropriate comments during the delivery.

And she's like that, it's pretty fucked up.

Her lawyer, William Whittaker, who spoke on behalf of his clients, said that she feels vindicated and very happy with that jury's decision. I just hope her fiance and her are good, or she found something else in life, like I just wish the best for chef.

She's happy. What a fucking nightmare, I mean like.

I know everybody has, like you know, traumas and stuff like that, but it's like when people like get married and let like a man treat their child in a bad way kind of like no, what what, like it doesn't even you need a boyfriend that bad. I don't get it. I don't get it. I know we just are but he was probably.

Abusing her too, and like, you know, there's a lot of yeah.

We're also like liberal free women, and like a lot of times if you grow up in a really indoctrinated situation, like having a man is the number on the thing, and the man, if you're religious, is the head of the household. And when he says, goes like and to be able to procreate is your duty as a woman. And you know, so like there's just so much trauma and bullshit instilled in women that like, yeah, of course I can see them ending up serving and massage.

I know I shouldn't blame I shouldn't blame the mom and no, it's a.

Natural instinct to be like you should protect your fucking child.

I feel I agree with you. I agree with you. I that's why.

But you know, weren't we talking about it for like the Nardilique. Not not really, I'm forgetting her name. One of the child cases in New York where the mom got way more than the dad.

Oh.

Yes, because we're.

Meaner to moms, because we do have an expectation of mothers that you care about your kid. We don't have expectations for dads. We know they're bad. They should be at work, they should be absent. I never changed a diaper, you know what I mean. Like, but I understand the instinct to be like, how dare you not protect your child too?

Yeah?

But also a girl don't. Also, girl, don't go to jail for a man. It was only eight months, but you still went to jail for a fucking man.

But so I understand the instinct to be mad at the moms. But then I understand the fucked up way. So many women are brought up totally to honor men.

So it's totally difficult case.

I guess somewhere. So this is the case of Fred and Rosemary West.

The Wests.

They are sick, like I said, they're known as Britain's worst serial killers. This couple would prey on vulnerable young girls and women to play out sexual fantasies. Over a period of twenty years, they would rape, torture and murder in their house of Horror in Glouceschester, England.

I think that's Gloucester, Glocester. It's just Gloucester, Gloucester, England.

And there was abduction, satomasochistic torture, binding, and then after the murders, these women were dismembered and their bodies buried, very sexually sadistic, very fucked up.

And of course both of.

Them have very classic like killer vibes with roots going back to their childhood. So both of them were subjected to incest, both were abused, and so when they met it was the worst possible combination of all time. And yeah, and then when the authorities finally arrived and did all the work, they found the bodies of nine girls in the hall under the home, and then three other bodies were found later elsewhere where.

I was just gonna say, do you watch Black Mirror?

I am, I'm not a religious watcher. I've seen maybe thirty percent of it, if not less. Obviously I watched the Miley one, okay, and the Jared Goldstein.

Yeah, because in the Jared Goldstein season, there is one where this couple goes to this house to.

Make a documentary. If you've seen it, you've seen it.

And I just really quickly googled it and it seems like there might be a connection between that episode and Fred and Rosemary West. So it immediately made me think of it. Just go on, No, that's yeah.

So Anne McFall is to be believed as the first victim, and she was the fucking nanny to the kids from his first marriage. And this is really difficult. I hated this BBC article, but it did focus on the victims, which I feel oftentimes we focus so much on the killers and we forget like all these victims.

So I wanted to go through it.

But a lot of the information came from the biographer from Fred West. A lot of people wrote books about, you know, both of these killers, and the way they talk about the victims really irks me. And so it's from Fred West's account to this biographer who's also this man, but like, you know, according to him, she flirted with him.

All the time.

Oh right, right, you know, So, like this article really bothered me throughout. And yeah, they said that the nanny was very naive, she was eighteen. She did end up having a sexual relationship with Fred. When the wife would leave town, he then fathered her child, and then when she was pregnant, she disappeared.

In May of nineteen sixty seven.

Her body was found in a field near West's home village of Much Markel. I don't know, get over at England but in her a ford Shire. That's not real. Go back to Lord of the Rings. Okay, then the second victim, this is to be believed, you know, with all the things. So Catherine Cassello was born in Scotland

This is not a great organization.

I shouldn't be using them, but you know, they like they are, like, yeah, she was known to have a strong personality. She was tough and manipulative. And it's like he also killed twelve women. So like, I don't know if her being manipulative is relevant to murder.

Like one of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims was like really annoying, like he would never pay for drinks, you know what I mean, Like.

Like for what? For what?

These were women that were tortured and murdered and you have to say that, like you know they were Actually she was manipul so we get why she would be murdered.

Like itis me.

Yeah, that's a misogyny. That's so fucking in there, damn right, fucking crazy. You have to talk shit about this woman even after she's been.

Murdered by a serial killer, like her worst qualities. Like I'm sure she had some good qualities too, you could have mentioned. But she left him in nineteen sixty nine because there was violence and sexual abuse, and then her friends and family lost contact with her in nineteen seventy one.

Oh my god.

So this isn't a situation where I hope I can go off of this. This is not a situation where uh oh he met her young like and.

For her she seems like she was murderous.

Yeah, so yep, she was eight years old when she disappeared in nineteen seventy one. And yeah, basically Rosemary murdered her while Fred was in prison for the theft of a car and vehicle tax stuff. So if she was forced to do anything, he would have been there or even a work this he was in prison, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she took the opportunity to kill his child, but when he was released, he'd inn't mind. He buried the body of his daughter beneath the kitchen window in their

And they had lodgers in there.

So I think that's how that connects to like that guy living yeah in an episode, like they did have.

Lodgers in that house.

The next victim was Carol Ann Cooper, and she was from Bedfordshire and later lived in Worcester. I think the sauce right is that it No, that's Worcestershires.

Yeah, ok, pronounced I don't know in Massachusetts that's pronounced Worlster.

But I don't know about in England. I'm sorry, I know it to our British listeners.

I know our poor English people were butchering everything. You can send me hateful DMS if you'd like, But so then so Carol Anne Cooper. At the time she disappeared in nineteen seventy three, she was staying at the Pines children It's home. She was given permission to spend the weekend with her grandmother, and she disappeared after boarding a bus back to the children's home following a night out. On November tenth, her body was found buried underneath the

Like, I mean, there's also this like Ken and Barbie killer thing where or like the Sebastian Martin short episode where it's like it's a man and a wife.

What could possibly happen to me?

Oh yeah, so I'm telling you everyone at once, but like and when on how they were found and whatnot. But they got away with these crimes for twenty plus years. They did not So this was all in the seventies and there was no justice till the nineties. But her remains were found at twenty five Cromwell, beneath the floor of the cellar. The next victim is Terse Seagenthaler, and she was a Swiss born student. She was twenty one

She never reached her destination.

And my thing was like, how were they at all these locations and all these places and ready to attack all the time, like the planning and all of it, and their methods are I don't know.

It's like it's all over the place.

So her her remains, like I said, were found many years later, also under the floorboards in the cellar at twenty five Cromwell. Shirley Hubbard was fifteen and attended high school. At the time of her disappearance November fourteenth, nineteen seventy four. She left work to go home and was never seen again. No trace of her was found she as well under the cellar.

Oh my God.

Janita Mott born in nineteen fifty seven and then in April nineteen seventy five she was eighteen years old and she left her Nuwant address and is believed to have traveled to Gloucester, but she vanished the day before a friend's wedding. It was not reported to police, but the family did contact the Missing Persons Bureau and the media, and her remains were also found at twenty five Cromwell.

In May of nineteen seventy eight, her.

Body and the body of the unborn child were found buried in the garden at the West's home.

So so far he's killed two pregnant women. So unlike the guy from the episode, he does not want these kids now they're just popping out from the result of being a psychopathy.

And yeah, it's evil.

Alison Chambers was born in West Germany, later moved to Swansea and then you know she was quote unquote rebellious as well, very mouthy and stubborn. It's like, why would you write that in like a victim article. It's sickening, it's crazy, but she went to go live in a children's home in Gloucester and was a known visitor to twenty five Cromwell. And she disappeared in August nineteen seventy nine, shortly before her seventeenth birthday, and her remains were found

Oh my god.

So once they were taken in, Fred's story kept changing. Rose denied any knowledge about it, but then they found two femurs in the yard and Fred Slart slowly started confessing to the killings and was taken back to the house and pointed all the.

Spots where all the bodies were.

These bodies were found dismembered, stuffed into vertical holes in the ground and with trophy. Body parts such as kneecaps and finger bones were removed and have never been found.

Oh my god.

The property was demolished after the search. The search continued to the old property. And obviously this was a massive story. Many people have written books about both of the monsters and this case really did put a cloud over a Gloucester, which was a small town.

Doonet cared about. And now this is the legacy.

And he was charged with twelve counts of murder, but sadly he did kill himself at fifty three before he could stand trial, and he took a ton of secrets to the grave with him that have haunted the country for decades.

So we have no information.

He was found in his Remann cell on January first, nineteen ninety five, was convicted of ten counts of murder in November nineteen ninety five. She had no outward reaction when the guilty verdict was delivered.

She did try to appeal. Lol, it did not work.

She will remain in prison until she dies at HM Prison, new Hall Flocked in West Yorkshire. She still claims she is innocent and has not revealed anything about the case over the years. Experts do believe there are more victims because like, they just don't believe they were they would have been able to take as long of a break as they did, but they will never get any information unless maybe.

Like they must have picked another hiding place for the eighties, Like I'm sure they killed throughout the eighties and they just found another hiding spot.

Yeah right, Like, oh my god, yeah yeah.

That episode of Black Mirror, by the way, is called Locke Henry and it is terrifying, so check it out.

But this reminded me of it. Fuck, what is happening?

Yeah, crazy, crazy people just want to bury things in their own houses when there is so much forest out there. Anyway, we've got a great guest. Thank you for doing all that research and telling us about all those horrific crimes.

We are thrilled you're here. This is a very fucked up episode.

Yeah, so it's just a little yeah. Yeah. How old were you when you shot it?

Eighteen?

Were you playing fifteen?

Yeah, and you knew it was fucked You were reading it being like, oh my god, oh.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean it wasn't my first like fucked up, you know role that I was reading for.

So yeah, I was like, no big.

Deal, You've done a lot of the dark the dark Yeah gee yeah exactly.

Yeah.

So yeah, Like where were you in your like career when this SVU thing came along? Do you remember auditioning for it?

Like?

What? Yes?

So I had I think I had already. Yeah, I had done like the Ring. I was a child actress, so I had been working since I was like nine, and I grew up in New York but had lived in LA since I was like twelve and so or no even younger than that. But uh, they, I guess had trouble casting this episode. I don't know exactly why, but Dick Wolf ended up going to LA and searching for actresses for this role, and he met me one time and was like, you're at and blew me out to your interesting So.

It wasn't you had Dick Wolf himself. That's cool.

Yes, yeah, I don't think we've ever talked to anybody that said they got the role directly from Dick Wolf.

Yeah.

I was. I was impressed.

I was like, because I had grown up watching lawn Orders, so I was like, oh my god, I'm freak out.

But yeah, he was really nice. Well you were, but you were booked and busy as a kid. I mean you were, you were out there booking, you.

Were Yeah, yeah, comparatively Yeah.

Yeah.

I took a little break, but then yeah, around seventeen eighteen I started working again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And once you get to say, I mean, what we're wondering is what do you remember.

What subway stop that was?

Like?

How was it filming on the subway where people like heading to work? Did they rent the platform? What are the deeds?

Yeah, it was kind of crazy. They rented that whole area out, like the entrance to that side of the subway, and every body in. There were extras and like going through the platform.

Everything, they were all extras.

I think Dick Like we had a woman director, but I think Dick Wolf came in and directed that part.

I don't know why. He was like.

Randomly at the set a lot and I think it was in Chelsea. I don't know where it was supposed to be, but we were in Chelsea. Yeah, and they closed down the whole thing and it was just it was a I can't remember, like the four I think, and it was just the express to go through. And they even asked me, they were like, do you want to have like a stunt double do the like jumping towards the train. I was like, no, do and they put me in like a cord thing and I was like.

No, fear. I don't know now, I'm like, oh my God, would.

Never do that.

But so like a real train comes by and everything and then they just yank you with a cord around your midsection almost exactly.

Yeah. I thought it was awesome. I'm stressed, I.

Know, right, And you didn't have you were eighteen already. Because we always with child actors, we asked like, how were your parents behaving on set?

You know what I mean, right, No, I actually had so this is really embarrassing. I was very like co dependent, as you know, when I was younger, so I always had a boyfriend with me.

And at the time I was dating this guy who was about nineteen years older than me WOA, and he did not like me jumping in front of the train. He did like he was on set, like staring at me.

Apparently I was oblivious eighteen, you know, like, but everyone was like, I don't like him. Like Marishka literally told me. She told me a side and she's like, I don't like the way he's looking at you. I don't like him. Get away from him. I was like, okay, did you listen to I mean eventually, not right away, a little quicker, but yeah, she was right.

Yeah.

How was it with Marishka and Maloney?

Oh?

They were great. I mean Marishka was definitely more like chatty. I remember at one point she was talking about her haircut. I don't know how much before that she had gotten her haircut, but pretty recently, and she was talking about how she almost got fired and she had been crying, I guess, but she.

Was like, but it was okay in the end, and oh yes, heason four. She left it out.

She did like do the pixie and that. Yeah, it was really sure.

Moment, you know, yeah, yeah, yes, exactly.

Well I like that she got involved. When did you break up with this person?

Probably two months later?

Yeah, yeah, if you don't have them, if you don't have the Olivia Benson steal of approval, I don't think you can like keep nating somebody.

Yeah right, yeah.

She knew, she knew she was smarter than me.

Yeah, especially on that set. You know, they're on top of they're on top.

Of all that, I know, right, Yeah, so she was super like sweet and I didn't have a ton of scenes with her.

Most of my scenes were with Chris I guess.

Well yeah, you guys got I mean you like cried in his arms.

Right, But like also that scene where you're originally acting kind of like baby ish, like a child, and then you suddenly like very vamp and like, well yeah, but I mean it's a great scene for showing how like fucked up this girl mentally has sucked her up, you know, Like but when you're like coming on to Christopher Maloney, how was that scene as like it when you're supposed to be fifteen, so it's like creepy.

Yeah. No, I thought it was totally creepy.

I mean I think my boyfriend at the time was like his age too, so I didn't want him to think that there.

Was like any weird.

I was just like I thought of him because I had seen him on shows growing up, and so I thought of him as like a fatherly type figure or something like that. And I just it was it was really awkward and really hard for me. Like I remember we had to do that scene a ton of times because I did not want to be.

Sexy towards him. Like it's just felt so awkward and weird.

But well, I like I did see that the director was a woman, and I feel like I like that Joyce.

Yeah, she was really good.

Yeah.

I liked her a lot because we do hear that it's like a go, go go, So I'm glad that you were able to do you know, yes, take your time with those scenes and stuff.

That scene I actually got some time. Everything else was like go as fast as possible. Yeah, They're all like even though this was like early on in the show, everyone on the.

Set was just like you know, experts at it. Yeah, it was great.

Yeah.

Do any other episodes stick out to you since you're a watcher of SV we like to call like our haunting.

Episodes or episodes. Yeah you get excited.

By Honestly, there's one right around mine, either right after maybe mine. I can't remember the name of it, but it's this younger girl around like eighteen or nineteen. She's blonde, and she has like a younger sister that she oh damaged.

Yes, she gives the damage. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. You're trying to scare me. I'm already dead. Yeah, we love that one. Oh my god. I was like, oh damn, that is like, well other level. Yeah, that one.

Always stuck with me.

I am so I'm so pumped that that's the one you mentioned. I'm like, I'm really happy.

That's a great up.

I mean, there are so many that stick out, but I always remember that when I was like, oh wow, like that.

We talked to Ari for our podcast for that one, and she was cool.

That was so cool.

So what have you been up to or did you like what made you kind of, you know, pivot.

Away from like acting and stuff.

Yeah, I quit because I had my son and then my ex husband I had to leave. Uh, he was having some issues, and so I needed to get like a job where I knew I had a paycheck.

I could have rent, you know. Unfortunately it's so unreliable.

It just is.

Yeah, yeah, no, it can. It can definitely.

And if you're in like living paycheck to paycheck, which I was close to it, I was like, I can't do this.

So I went back to school. I became a paralegal. And I was a paralegal for a long time.

Oh my god, So do you when you watch you or different shows like that, or even listen to my favorite murderer, you you know about.

I do, well, I know some of it because I worked at a law firm that did like divorce and custody and stuff. So I like there were some crazy stuff that we had to deal with. And I do know like a lot about like restraining orders and stuff like that. So I definitely when I see shows about things, I'm like, oh, they're not they're not saying that rider, they didn't use the ride. They would never get a restraining order for that, Like yeah, it kind of Yeah.

Because we were recently talking about is how like in some states you can't get a divorce when you're pregnant. What.

Yeah, it's just part of it's part of the new kind of conservative vibe that's happened, an attack on women that's happening in our country, but I think it was Missouri and a few other places.

Yeah, if you're pregnant, you can't get a divorce.

Oh that is insane.

Yeah, totally.

That sounds like it's like a law from like one two hundred years.

I mean, well those are those are coming back into fashion Arizona.

They brought one back from what eighteen sixty four, like eighteen eighty or something.

Yeah, insane, so scary. Do people still like text you when your SVU comes on? Like you're on the assay network right now.

It's funny because that's probably what people message me the most about on like Facebook or tags.

They'll be like, I just thought your nee or out of you afull They're.

Still getting those checks.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not that much anymore, but yeah, sure, yeah they come.

I'm glad.

Yeah, I want to know how rich Marishka is so bad?

Oh she has gotta be.

I mean, it's playing lot several hundred channels at the same time at all times.

Like it's I mean, she's got to be just stat forever.

H No, I think she easily could stop working, never work another day in her life.

Yeah, what do you like?

Do you have any other like memories of the set, like any other little funny stories or iced tea munch Anybody.

I see was very like down to business, nice but not like he didn't really plan, like, you know, talk to me a whole lot. Yeah, I think only like one or two scenes around each other.

And he was like, hey, what's up?

How you doing?

And the yeah, I mean Chris was Oh. The one thing Marishka kept talking about, which was funny.

She kept saying that she started doing what is it called colonics.

And she was like she was pushing me.

She was like, so good for you. It is awesome. You've got to do it. You feel so much better after. I'm like, okay, I didn't know what it was at the time. You know, there was you know, internet was not what it is today, and I was like, I don't know what Okay, I don't any right, I was not up to Yeah, I didn't know what she was talking about. But at the time I was like, okay, yeah, I'll look into it. And Chris kept laughing and he's like, no, I'm not doing that.

And then I looked it.

Up later and I was like, oh, that's what she was about.

I couldn't know at the time.

I will say, Marishka's on trend because those were like kind of having a moment in the two thousands. Like a girl I went to high school with did an article for Playboy about doing a date to get a klonic, like going with a guy to get a klonic together and then afterwards going to have like a really decadent meal and stuff like. So that was like a hot thing people were doing at that time.

That is so funny.

That is hilarious. Yeah, so I always remember that. I thought that was really fun. She was like promoting it to me and Chris.

I feel like she likes you, Colonix. She got really deep about your your boyfriend. I mean she yea, she was giving me advice. She was sweet. No, I really liked her. I always remembered her.

Yeah, time aunt her hair. Yeah, she was really sweet.

And I'm not that outgoing, like I'm kind of shy first, so I would like, I was so glad that she was so nice to me.

What also works with the character the shyness, right, it does help.

Yeah, you had a.

Big secret and you know, and you knew that your dad was scary. Yeah, yeah, tough. I did. Also, we stalk on IMDb. Obviously we do our work.

But it says you were born in South Dakota, and I'm so glad you didn't stay in South Dakota. You famously meet the Dakota's on this podcast.

Me too.

You're against the I am too.

The places I've never been and I know.

But nobody goes There's what I mean, there's never a concert.

If you look on.

Any band, comedian, anyone's tour, no one's going to the Dakota.

They don't stop it.

They don't, no, no, no, I have you know, my dad still lives there, who I don't really talk to. And then I have a bunch of half sisters and cousins and like you know, nieces, and they all live there. I've not gone back since I was like eleven. My sisters come out here to visit.

Of course.

Well yeah, what are we going to do in the Dakotas after we see Mount Rushmore?

What are we gonna do? Right? And Sturgist, I guess if you're a biker.

Well, my dad loves Sturgis. Yeah there's that, oh he is, yes, yeah six Sturgiss.

Yeah, so wait, talk to us about being in the ring.

I saw that movie in the theater. It was I didn't find I saw it made me go yeah, oh, I remember screaming.

And then of course there was one girl with us that kept be like I wasn't even scared, and it's like, Okay, you're a dumb bitch and I hate you, like we.

Those are the best girls.

Wasn't even scared. I didn't care.

I was.

I was.

I was like, why did you make me come to this? I'm gonna have a panic attack, Like I'm god, but I'm a.

Real scaredy cat.

Did everyone think you were so cool like in school or in their life, like to be in such a big hit movie kind.

Of you know, I wasn't in school anymore. I had tested out, I had graduated already, I was going to like college per time. So you know, it was just basically my close friends who like, you know, they already like me, and.

So I couldn't really take their you know, their compliments.

Seriously, we have you shown your kids a little princess.

You know, I showed my twins because one is a girl, and the boys don't want to watch a little princess.

That's like not on their thing. They're not that's not cool. So my daughter liked it.

I still liked it too, but they didn't recognize me in the movie, which so funny because it looks too sad. I mean, it's me, but they were like, oh, yeah, that girl kind of looks like you. I didn't tell them because I wanted them to be like, oh, look, it's mom.

But they didn't. I was like, it is man. They were like, no, it's not.

Yeah, and so I don't think they understand that, like most moms are not in like movies randomly or TV shows, but you know, they'll figure it out.

Yeah.

That's kind of one of the main things that like actors, uh talk about on late night where so, yeah, my kid doesn't think I'm cool. They don't like how superhero I am. They're disrespect to me constantly, and.

That's good, right, Yeah, but then it's like then it's like actors will do an animated show so their kids think it's cool, but then kids don't really like put it together, like I'll say, oh, that's you know, that person's.

Voice on a thing. They're like, what, like they don't really.

Get that, you know, No, it's not connection.

When you just simply can't win with these children.

Well, because my niece and nephews are tines and like they just really they really disrespect me in a way.

I can't imagine.

You're just not the cool ants.

They're not responding to texts I try to connect, they're just I mean, sometimes they will, but it's quick.

I think she is the cool ant. They just are playing it cool. They are trying to play it cool. Oh yeah, I think you're cool.

Yeah, I don't think that.

I know.

My little nephew's always just like, yeah, I want stability in a house.

Thanks, Like they're just not like my lifestyle.

Oh my gosh, he wants to be on you know, Wall Street. He's kind of a bro. My youngest one, Oh that's hilarious. How old is sixteen? So mine are like my sister's kids are sixteen, eighteen, and twenty one. Oh yeah yeah, and they just are out and about. I was like, do you want to come visit New York? They're like, no, thanks, are serious.

That's the funny, so insane, Like I would be like, I'm I'll be there tomorrow.

Seriously with my aunt. Yeah, seriously, I'd be all over that.

That's hilarious, you know what. And I wonder if it's the same for parents. Probably, Like I, you know, I've known them their whole lives, and the two memories they always remember is when I kind of like I called Jimmy Johnson and said the bread is stale and you better send more bread. Like that's the story. They're like, that's our ant, or like one time I had road rage, And those are the two things they bring up times.

Remember, No, I know.

Yeah, that when you fuck up is when they're like, hey remember that.

Memory.

I'm like our trips to the mall nothing, I'm like all these fun meals, adventures, mini golf.

You just remember when I yelled at Jimmy John's Yeah that's the Yeah, Yeah, I think that's that's the same for parents as well, that's for sure.

Yeah.

I'm like, even you remember when I took you to Disneyland. He's like, no, but I remember that time like my Grandma's throwing.

Dishes, Like what what you remember?

It's just you know, that's what the that's what they like.

You know, what are we gonna do? Thank you so much for so far. This is great.

Thanks for having me.

The second people find out about Marishka and the Colonix, you're gonna be in top.

A top guests. Thank you so much for taking the time.

If you've listened, like usually, people are like, she's a queen, she's a goddess, she's an angel, and it's nice to know she was getting colonnas as well.

Yeah, she's a human angel, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she worked on ourselves.

That was fun.

Oh boy, oh boy, Well yeah no, it wasn't fun. I apologize. It's like, I don't know. The episodes are such a journey where the episode like our episodes because the episode is like I don't know, it's just why I tune into s VU just fucked up twists and turns. The real crime is really upsetting. I don't like any of it. And then she was a she was amazing adult.

Yeah.

I love when we get I love these journame palette cleansing guests. After these fucked, very truly fucked up crimes were like, let's talk to a nice person. It is the worst crimes yes, yes, And I don't know what's our post mortem takeaway from resilience. We need to disabuse men of the notion that they need to continue their bloodline.

They absolutely do not, like these.

Disgusting crazy men do not need to keep procreating and like, no, and.

I forgot who brought this up to me, but it was like or maybe it was event on this pod. But we don't too generate, like your great grandparents. I don't know my great grandparents' names. I know nothing about them, like after two generations it is done, like this idea that you will continue on and people like it's delusional.

You don't know your great grandparents.

Who the fuck's gonna care about you unless you really invented you know, penicillin.

But I don't even know that guy's name.

Unless you invented penicillin. Oh my god, we don't know that guy. Who is it?

We don't know these people like get over yourselves, Like it's fine. You can just go with the wind Pocahonta style.

Absolutely, yes, you can paint with all the colors of the wind, focus on Polkanta style.

Oh my god, this hunger just hit me in a way.

But in both of these episode and true crime. I'm always just like and I think that the women to a certain extent are victims because you know, there's a lot of ways which in which I'm not trap them.

But no, not m not Rosemary West right, No, Rosemary fucking killed his kid. She killed her stepdaughter, which she was annoying he was out of town.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanted to believe. Angie Landrix was like, I was just doing what my husband told me to do. But she's fucked to like, come on, come on, lady, Yeah, no, she is fucked.

They're all fucked. She is a killer. And it's like people get together that want to be Ferby's. I'm sure the people that want to do this are furries, not.

Find each other.

Yeah, people want to be Ferbies Furries, yes, Furries or star Trek like people will find each other. So it's like, but how do you Yeah, it's just these people are sick, and I wanted him to suffer more.

All these guys also get off.

They all but also like you're keeping the what it was it the kneecaps like there was weird.

Oh god, yeah, it's like fingers. Yeah, well, and then the.

Bosh also just does a great job acting where it's like the arrogance of these guys even when you're so caught, it's beyond caught. We have the woman's head or whatever, or like bought a torso it's like he still thinks he's gonna somehow weasel his way out of a consequence.

Yeah, he is so good.

I mean because like a Bosh, he's like a good guy, you know, and then in this he's so evil. And then later he comes back where he's like the evil lawyer and there's like the he sexually assaults that other lawyer and it's like, you know, we.

Don't back and get Bosh. We got to get Bosh.

If you've got the tightest wall of her connect please let us know people have been if you know anyone that's been on us for you messages, because people have been messaging us and we've been We've we've booked a couple of guests from people knowing people.

So we appreciate it. We appreciate you guys keeping a look out again.

Friends of Ludaicress, friends of Joan Cusack. We need you to rise up. Is that a Barbara streisand song or no.

People who people who love People.

Yeah, it's called People by by a Barbari Streisand yes, okay, great, great, yeah yeah, I heard her like book is the greatest thing ever. I would love to maybe listen to it.

I'm done pretending.

I just tell people I don't read now, and some people are not impressed.

They don't like that. But I'm done. I'm done.

I am done pretending I do not read except when there's research involved.

Yes, and then you're reading Baby, and then you're getting There, Kansas, then you're getting Wichita Eagle read there.

Yes, there is an author and someone I follow online that I wanted to support, but I was like, I'm not buying another book, So I just bought it for my niece for her birthday.

Oh nice. Let me know how it is.

I buy a lot of my friends books, and I can't say I read all of them, but I keep them and I buy them and I put them out for display.

Yes, this isn't a friend, this is someone I follow on the internet.

Oh okay, but you know, I'm just saying I don't read everybody's books that I like. Someone Will I'm friends with will be like, well, you know that part in my book and I'm like, yes, I do, tell me, remind me because I can't read everybody's book.

As I said, I think I've read three books since I hade kids.

All right, should we scooch on over to our what would Sister Peg do for this week? This is our weekly segment where we give you guys, point you to an organization, a book, a blog post, a blog post like it's two thousand and one, no like a article, a podcast, episodes, something to give you more info about what we talked about this week. And obviously I felt for the children in this episode who were part of this extremely fucked up family, and so I wanted to

Wow.

Thank you so much for that, and sorry, I feel like I was really monotony.

Yeah I was. That was a flop. That was a flop.

And next week's episode we'll be doing Snitch from season nine, episode ten. Get with it. We're obsessed with all of you. Tell a friend we like doing this.

Yes, your dreams message us that they found the podcast last week.

We've been around guys. Tell people about us.

Well, yeah, and stay tuned because we did just film a lot of TikTok content.

So coming at you fast, yes, or on medium speed.

Yeah, we're gonna be on TikTok and we're making stuff, So get ready.

It's going to be coming at you on medium speed, medium speed. All right, see you guys next week. Bye.

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