Rapist Anonymous w/ Thomas Sadoski

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories Une Dune.

Hello, Hello, Hello, that's messed up an SVU podcast.

My name is Lisa Traeger and my name, as always is Kara Klank Lisa.

What's up?

Well, we have to tell them it's an SVU podcast. We talk about an episode, the crime a guest.

You guys don't know that by now it's an episode.

Come on, maybe someone's just a big fan of only this episode.

Yeah, in case you are starting here on this episode in the thirties, we are an SVU podcast. We dissect an episode from the show, then we talk about the true crime it was based on, and we interview a guest associated with the episode in the episode. Usually and we got a hunk this time. Yeah, baby, huge news for us. We did finally go see Zola after Ye, that's what I was going to get into. I'm so excited to talk about Zola that I forgot to introduce what our podcast is.

Yeah, Sola was incredible filmmaking and anyone cool that I run into has already seen it.

We saw it.

Opening night right well with La It's like weird where things are before them, But it was fun, you know, Mom's day out. And the best news is there is an Sview cameo in Sola, Officer cal Doon aka Ariel Statuel, and he had a nice little sex scene, a little part, and it was thrilling to see him. I wish we got to see him more, but you know, yeah, we were busy seeing amazing outfits and sad scenes and just amazing filmmaking. I would say, yeah, I was like, I

Never you've never seen a movie twice, not never, but like I can name it. In the theater.

Yeah, in the theater, I saw Sense and Sensibility twice.

Never seen that one so sad, and I honestly can't think of another one.

I can't think of another time I've paid to go see a movie like two times in the theater.

Yeah, I was acting shocked. But I don't know if I've done that, you know, but I've gone. I used to rent the same movie constantly from Blockbuster.

Oh you know what other movie I've seen twice? That movie Playing by Heart. I was telling you about that. You were like, what the hell is this movie? Hopefully this is another Chipmunk effect. And everybody writes me and tells me how much they love this fucking movie. But it's one of those ensemble movies where everybody has their own storyline and then you kind of find out how

So anyway, love that movie. And I saw twice in the theater.

I when you said the Playing of the Heart or whatever, I thought, Crimes of the Heart.

Do you know about that one? No, what's that?

It's a movie that I think was successful, but it is a play. And in high school theater I did a scene from it. I could tell my theater teacher was impressed. Like I think, like Shirley McLean's in it or something.

Oh wow, Okay, when I look at the poster of this movie. It's it's Diane Keaton, Jessica Lang and Sissy Spacek.

I mean icons only this is like, I gotta watch this. And you know I have worked with Jessica Lang before, no big deals me. I excuse me. I know in Horace and Pete, I was at the bar and I have lines.

With Jessica Lang like she tells me to shut the fuck up or something, or like you dumb bitch, like she says something.

Mean to me. No, what was she like in real life?

She was really in character and like focused, and so I wasn't like paling around with her on set, sure, but very kind and perfect like amazing, not a rude thing to say about her, but we didn't like vibe. But I did see her napping on a little couch in some hallway and it was a really amazing experience, Like, oh, the best in the world are working for sag minimum

It's always like the people not that good.

I don't know, like Steve BUSHEMI was on that set Alan Alda, Edie Falco. It was an incredible experience. The great snow to act. Yeah, I wish Louie wasn't a dumb bitch so I could brag about it more.

But it was an amazing career moment in my life.

I think we all wish Louis wasn't a dumb bitch. I mean, I nailed it, and not to I do have another brag. Okay, I did a comedy show last night at Diynosta. Yes, tell Us, tell Us. I was going to ask you how it went.

Yeah, I was.

I mean, I am still high off of it, honestly, like I can't. I was the last person to leave, and then I stood with audience members in the parking garage refusing to leave, like I just wanted to save her every moment. But Benito Skinner and Mary Beth Burone had this show, and Maggie Rogers was on one of the shows, and she sounded like when she started to she was so cool backstage and so nice and fun.

She has such a beautiful voice. Really, and we were all upset. So what was funny?

Meg Stalter was on the show and I DMed her earlier in the day going can't wait to see you and Maggie Rogers, and she thought I was kidding, and she goes, that's a funny joke.

Why would she say that?

And then she said when she walked into the green room, she fully gasped and realized I was not kidding.

She didn't know Maggie was on the show.

No, no one really knew, and she thought I was just joshing with her, like pulling a prank. She was like Lisa Sile assumed she saw the promo. There wasn't a promo, nothing was announced.

Oh really Yeah. And then Langston Kerman couldn't believe it.

I told him he was like I listened to her album all the time, Like we were all we all couldn't believe it, Like she sounded me, I mean it was I can't wait for her new album.

Amazing, Oh my god.

Well, Lisa stars star studded yeah, it was star studded.

And then there were people on that show.

We were at the same July fourth party and I didn't even know because I got so anxious that I had to leave.

I think everybody can relate to that.

Yeah, I'm like, we're both really social, chatty people. I didn't expect to get tired out socializing. And I'm sure are some substances I took added to that, but I had to leave.

Sure, And also just like we're a little out of practice. I mean we are easing into like the full social calendar.

You know.

Yeah, I would give yourself a break.

I gave myself. I just I expected to be like I'm gonna rage all night, you know, fun on her lawn.

And then at eleven, I was like, can I get a ride home? Please? I can't. I can't, I can't. I can't be here anymore.

I cannot, like ask how someone knows the hosts of the party. Again, I like, I don't have it in me. I had a cute Fourth of July where Rosie went to a party with all older boys and just totally threw herself into their posse, and it was gave me hope for her future.

I miss her every time I hear about her.

Ire.

Well, we're going to get you two together. But I did see little Oscar yesterday. Oh you did.

He's getting he's looking like a real Yeah, he's looking like he's getting cuter and a little easier by the day. So hopefully a month from now he's going to be gorgeous and easy.

We do have to.

Wrap up, but I wanted to talk about how Mrushka Hargita keeps fucking breaking her body.

What's going on? Like, no idea. We just brained another ankle and was like, this is my summer.

Look.

I'm like, didn't you just recover from like a knee thing. Yeah, I don't know, drink Alcia. I have no idea. I don't know what we need to get Mushka on that bonivo tip. I don't know what's going on, Lisa.

Yeah, what did I burp out?

No?

I absolutely need to call you out that.

You were like, I don't know if I've ever seen a movie twice in the theaters, and like ten episodes ago, you were like, how have you never seen a movie twice in the theaters, Kara, I've done it with.

This movie, this movie, this movie and you like listed them really no, no.

Like I've watched Like if I like a movie, I'll watch it dozens of times and it's always on.

I do that Kara sense and Sensibility fact. Because the pod No recollection, that's all.

Well yeah, yeah, year one, we're already repeating stories.

I don't know what to do. I did want to add.

I went to wildly, a six am soul cycle. I'm not a morning person, but it was a Rihanna ride and I had to do it and it was perfect. And if anyone out there ever sees on any schedule Rihanna music, workout go, it's the perfect music.

Yeah.

It's like powerful, inspirational, fast memories like set, it's just they do We.

Found love of course.

It's like my favorite. That's like my favorite. I love that song. I mean that's like post pandemic.

Like dream is like me being in a pack dance floor and that song comes on and yeah, everyone jumps up and down and Henson like that's what I want. I also want to I we got to do it Megan's wedding. But my dream was you know that song where it was like shut up and dance with me.

Oh my god, my at my wedding. That was the hugest song.

Well, I always said, I go, I want to dance to this at a wedding. I'm like, this is the perfect dance wedding song. And then it played at our friend's wedding and I was like, my dreams are coming true.

I was in the middle of a conversation with someone at that wedding and that song came on and I went, I'm sorry, I can't and I just like ran away because I had to go to the dance floor.

Now, BA Bride is cool. Probably you could be like peace. I didn't even want to.

Invite you, you dumb bitch, and I still have to say, you look incredible.

Let's get started. Sorry, let's go soul cycle. We can never keep it short.

I don't know why you try, Hannah.

All right, So today we're doing Rapists Anonymous and it's season fifteen. It is episode nine. Hulu says, episode eight. Shut your mouths. We don't care.

We don't know.

It's like Hulu has a vendetta against us in this podcast. But the episode starts out so exciting. I love seeing the detectives on their off hours and they're at a Crew dinner at Marishka's and Cassidy is there, short curly hair, Benson Amorro, Melinda Warner iced tea, and Kragan's with a date named Eileen.

So pretty exciting. Is this even a holiday? I think they're just having dinner, which is they're just it's they're doing a rare glimpse into And coincidentally, they just did like a wrap photo lo now of Marishka having all the cast like over to her house and like the big, big, high up people and it was like a long, twenty person dinner and it looked nice.

She's always with Allie Wentworth and Ali went Worth, his best friends with like the Seinfeld and anyone?

Who is she? Why is she friends with everyone I want to be friends with?

She was an actress. I don't think she acts much anymore. But she's married to George Stefanopolis. I think, yeah, the answer is nothing, Kara. Yeah, it's just another loose person who no one cares about, you know, like, how are they friends with all of high society?

I just don't get.

Itanopolis is a pretty big personality. But and then Melinda's being wild and she's just like she's a lesbian he's Frans and a murder weapon was found in his anal canal, and then I teased talking about necrophilia, and Benson's like, let's relax, guys, Let's just have a nice dinner and not talk about work. And then it is silence, and that's kind of like me and care if someone says, let's not talk shit about someone, we have nothing to say.

We just like have a positive time where we like don't talk shit.

We're just like super nice. We're like absolutely and then nothing.

Yeah, I'm sure there's no one that's listening to this, like, wait, where's Rollins? But they tell us anyways, So we see Rollins and they jump to an AA style type meeting in a dark basement. There's desserts and a woman named Lena is talking. She's blonde with short hair, and then there's a man next to Rollins with a douche lord hat and Lena's talking how she's been sober for almost a year and the douche lord hat is Nate, Lena's first sponsor.

In La and Rollins and Nate smile at each other.

So you know, if you get vibes, you see what's up. So back to dinner, Cassidy lets us know that Olivia is now going to be sergeant and that she got forty eighth out of eight thousand on her test, which is impressive. And then Benson's like, yay, Cassidy is going to be a detective again. But at IAB and everyone's like, oh Grace, yeah, but tomorrow's a gentleman. He's like, that's great, congrats, this is awesome. We cut back to the AA crew and Nate owns a bar, so that's weird.

Natea's douche lord guy.

Yes, yes, yeah, Nate is a sponsor, owns the bar, and he's with two hot blondes, Lena and Rollins, and they order wings for the table, and then we see a bald man with a beard like, you know, someone recently did a joke where they called this hairstyle a flesh covered Yamaica, which I thought was funny. I wish I remembered the comedian's name, but it was not an original thought. So they're all sitting there talking and Lena is touching the bald man's upper thigh very sexually. We

They're in four play action again. Another scene you don't see very often on an SVU. You don't really see the detectives. You sometimes see them kiss and then wake up in a man's shirt, but you don't like see.

A lot of the like rolling like thunder under the covers action.

You know, yeah, I was very into it and me he's a hot guy. For those who don't know, he's in real life married to Amanda Seafried Cifrid.

Figure it out. But you know what I'm talking about. Yes, he's a Broadway baby too.

But then so someone's buzzing at the door, interrupting the sex, and he's like, don't get the door. But it's like, okay, I understand not answering a phone call, but a door in the middle of the night. You have to answer, right, Can I ignore that?

But you know he wants to fuck So Rollins puts on a sweater, but she's already wearing a long sleeve flannel shirt, so she's barely undressed.

I don't know why she had to put on a sweater to answer the door. But it's Lena.

She's crying and she's saying that Jean took her home, had a few drinks and then raped her. So she falls into Rollin's arms to cry, and that's the credits. Baby, so a real entertangled mess. We got back from the credits and.

Lena tells Rollins that he was buzzing at her door and he had been drinking. She could smell she could smell the booze on his breath, and they were kissing, but it heated it up super fast. He made her crawl on all fours to the bed, which reminds me of the episode of Girls with Sherry Appleby, who is also an sv alum. And we also learn he has a fiance and she's a prude and they call her missionary Melissa, so and so he's cheating on her. He's a super kinky person.

And a rapist, and so yeah, he threw her on the bed and grabbed her hair and was being super rough and hurting her.

And Ronin's like, did you say no and stop? And she says yes, but he kept going. And then she's like, wait, but is that rape? I don't know because I let him back in, and Ronin's like, wait what. And so we find out that he walked her home. Earlier, they had a quickie in the doorway that was consensual, but the second time when he came back, he forced her, and Rollins is like, yeah.

That is rape.

And then a doctor at the hospital tells Rollins that she's holding up and that they did a rape exam and she's has a sedative right now. And then the doctor says you can take your sister home, and Rollins is like, wait, sister, And the doctor was like, oh, sorry, maybe I misheard something.

I'm not really sure.

So that's a little suspicious that the sister thing came out, because obviously we know she has a shady sister.

So was it a mistake? Is this on purpose? What's happening? SVU? Let's go baby.

So then we're back at the precinct and Rollins breaks anonymity from her whole group and tells the whole squad how she knows Lena from AA and Benson is drinking a green juice, which I love, and she has turquoise earrings, which I love even more.

It's very Santa Fe Benson. Yeah, I just I've never seen her in a green juice.

It's always coffee, coffee, coffee, maybe a diet coke once in a while, but I've never.

Seen a green juice. She's trying to survive, to make captain, you know. And then the funniest thing is I love when they all like I love the specicifity of jobs sometimes, like I'm reminded of the Flavor Institute.

And here.

Gane is an in house lawyer at a baby's supply.

Chain, Like, is that someone's cousin's job? Like how do they come up with this stuff? I mean, these writers are incredible. So they go to his job and he's like, listen, I'm stressed, what do you want from me? But he shows text messages and Lena is all into it, Like when he says I want you to crawl and I'm gonna fuck you, She's like, oh, that's humiliating. I fucking love it, so uh oh, these texts like that makes this case really hard.

Rollins asks like, hey.

Why did you say you were my sister at the hospital, And she's like, I said you were like a sister to me at and want to break AA anonymity like you did at the precincts earlier.

So yeah, that's.

Really she's quick, you know, like I didn't want to say we know each other from the meetings. Barbara's watching this through, like watching them chat at you know, through the window, and he's like, this is a rough case.

You know.

Jean's a Jewish lawyer, he's a good boy. She's an addict and a sales clerk. So classic Barbara bullshit that you all fully forget because you want to have sex with him so bad.

But he is a problem.

So Amorro goes to see Gene to put some pressure on him and see if they can talk to his fiance, and Jean's like, listen, leave my fiance alone. She's working at a refugee camp in Haiti. You don't have to bother her. So I love them.

Missionary Melissa is a real missionary too, you know, and all and always oh my God, missionary Melissa. That's wait, I did not even put that together. That's too good.

I don't know either, so right now, so it's I'm on the fly.

Do you think if you're a missionary you have to be more sexually adventurous so that people don't just label you with these kind of nicknames. No, if you're a missionary, like, I'm a dictionary but I love it doing it reverse cowgirl just FYI, Like you have to be super clear on your dating profiles.

This is like so tough.

For me because missionaries are bad people, Like they pretend they're good people, but they're bad. Like if you go to do volunteer work and actually work, but if you're there to convert people and make people Christians, like you're a bad person. Yeah.

Yeah, that's like Book of Mormon shit too. Yeah, exactly.

Because I went to an evangelical Christian college if anyone has forgotten, and I was in a conflict resolution class and we put together like some sort of conference for peace.

I don't know, but we had people from.

The community talk and there was someone that was like, they helped people get off the street, but their number one goal was converting them to Christianity like that was.

Success to them.

Like they like if they got someone off the street and functioning in a home and a job and like off of drugs, like that wouldn't be successful to them, Like converting them is their number one goal, right, And so to me, that's when it clicked in my brain.

I'm like, oh, you guys are bad people.

You know.

They're the type of people that are anal sexing for Jesus.

Like, Okay, this is very interesting and comes into play in the real crime.

Keep going, thank you, keep.

Going, Thanks for I love where this is where you're taking it well.

I also wanted to say I went into Christian college very open minded, and I left being like, you're the worst.

Stop bragging about your hour a jew for Jesus when you first got there.

Though, No, I was ready to just be like okay, whatever, like this is like not her name or Leola like I don't care about in school and gets to believe what they want.

And then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, I hate you guys.

Why do I have to write three papers about gay marriage? This is such a non issue for me, Like people were truly like in Christian ethics, we talked about how sad it was then more like Christians couldn't save more Jews in the Holocaust, and it's like, you guys aren't the victim.

Like it was really not center.

It was a fucked up place to be, but I'm really grateful for that experience. And I did like a couple of people, and I met my best friend there, but she also knew it was bullshit. Okay, YadA, YadA, YadA. And I'm a really famous alumni. They don't give me any respect. Why am I not in the pamphlets?

Huh? I wonder?

Okay, Okay, So they have to figure out if this is part of a pattern or like what's actually going on or is this like so they find out that the Jean and Lena have fucked in a Brooks Brother's dressing room, which is funny that, like they're talking down about her being a sales clerk, but Brooks Brothers is pretty fancy, you know, like you do.

Okay, Wow, I didn't realize it was a Brooks brother I missed that detail. That's an extensive store. I've never shot theresive store. I used to try to like go there to find like Father's Day presence.

I guess, yeah, I got my dad nuts this year, nice sauce.

Did you do nuts dot Com?

No?

Unfortunately, I had to do Amazon because I've forgotten till Saturday. And even though they're an evil corporation, they will get your dad nuts in twenty four hours. And then Jane says that he told Melissa everything on Skype, so this is pre zoom and that she forgave him and she and but it's like, girl, you could do better. Why are you like missionary Melissa? But maybe she just loves him and knows he's an attic. I don't know, but it's like he is fully cheating on you constantly do

And I have sex.

I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs, like those are my things, Like I don't know what you want from me, I can't have nothing, and she says, just stay away from him and if he that, you contact me immediately. Rollins and Nate like move over to flirt by the bar and Lena is alone and they're talking about her while looking at her like She's probably like, okay, I could tell you guys are talking about me.

The bar's basically empty.

Yeah, he has three shirts on, a sweater, a flannel and a Renaissance white shirt underneath and a Gorean's Brother hat.

It's just so many layers. Yeah, and layers really threw you, Lisa.

I was like, we watched this episode together and you were just like, why so many layers?

I don't.

Yeah, it's just tough for me because I would feel claustrophobic in those so many layers, and then cuts to them shirtless in beds, so they did so obviously.

Rowins had a problem with the layers too. She's like, take it all off. He just got in bed and that was took. That was five minutes of four play.

So the phone buzzes and wakes Rollin's up. Crime scene. Rollins meets iced Tea, and Jean took a header off the roof in quotes off of Lina's building. So Jean is dead at the bottom of Lena's building and he fell off the roof. He is dead Ice and Rollins agreed, this is no good, not good. Lena is like, wait, this makes no sense. He fell off my roof. I

So Iced Tea is like, what's up with Nate? Who is this? And Rollins is like, you're not my daddy, leave me alone.

I'm a big girl, iced tea and doesn't want to talk to him.

So cool. Well, he points out.

That, like, you're you're not supposed to Well, first of all, you're definitely not supposed to date your sponsor. And I think you're not even supposed to have a sponsor of the sex that you're attracted to.

Maybe, but I think it's just for her because she's slutty.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's like specific Rolins rules. Yeah, but it is cute. Icy is like trying to look out for her. I think it's kind of cute.

No.

I love their relationship. I love an iced tea, Rollins yeah vibe. So they are meeting up at the medical Examiner's office and Melinda says that he died immediately from impact, and she says there's small amounts of liquor and drugs, but he wasn't drunk and he wasn't alone, And they're.

Like, how do you know?

So his pants are unzipped, there's saliva on his penis and fresh ejaculate in the urethra. She says, most men pee after sex and that clears out all the leftover jiz. But so that he recently came and there was leftovers, but he didn't get time to pee. And then Melinda has an iconic line where she says he came and then he went.

Which I posted in our Stories and I will I will say, I will find this story and I will put it in our mention at all Highlight. But I posted that they just made that same joke again in the current season where they go, they go, he went, but he never came, Like they made the same exact Melinda joke about coming and then dying.

So after that.

Iconic moment that I'm glad they did a fucking callback to. They're an interrogation with Lena Benson and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow's knee is up on the chair and he's just looking sexy as hell. So Lena now says she let him in. I mean, it's like she is a mess. So Lena says she let him in to talk on the doorway, and then they're like, well, how did.

You get on the roof?

And she's like, I didn't want to in the apartment and we've had sex on the roof before and he likes it on the ledge.

She's like very into.

That, and she thought if she went along with it, he would leave her alone. She went to suck his dick and take care of it, but then he got violent and pulled her hair and grabbed her, and she got scared and pushed him off the roof after she screamed, like, don't hurt me. I mean, I don't believe it sucks, but I don't believe it word she's saying.

So Amar's like, why did you lie? And She's like, why would I lie? No one believed me because I'm a liar. I mean, I don't I honestly, It's like, Lena, leave me alone. And then Barba does have a great line where he goes her not telling us that she filated him with Frizzle Rocks in her mouth, like tattoo that on my forehead.

I love that.

Yeah, he says that, but like, had that come up earlier or that's like a later detail that they find out.

No, no one has mentioned it, No one mentions it again.

But like Melinda never said I found jaculate in the urethra as well as crystallized candy fragments from Frizzle Rock, Like we never heard that, right.

No, But I love that and I love pop rocks, which I'm assuming is for yeah.

So that's that's also like an urban legende type of thing I've heard of, of, like yeah, get like give a guy a BJ with pop rocks.

In your mouth.

But if you've done that, let us know a how you didn't choke and be if it went off, if it went well, let us know dm us.

Rollins of course, is trying to defend her. So they're not going to find Melissa the fiance and see what her story is and if anything matches, and they can get.

More clues from her.

But first Nate and Rollins and the dog, you know, Franny or Frankie or whatever.

I'm sure someone will like me it's Franny. I think it's Franny.

Yeah, And they're walking with a really pretty view of New York and talking over the case, which also seems insane, like what are why are you? There's not a detective that's made more worse than decisions than fucking Rollins. And so then Rollind's like, are you sponsoring Lena? Like youre sponsoring me? And he's like, hey, don't be mad, and

They're like, who told you he was murdered? And she says, Jeane did. And I feel like this is like a twenties movie. I was just like, I love it.

And so basically he left her a voicemail and they listened to the message and he Jeane says, Melissa, it's me. I'm afraid what Lena might do. I'm going to try to talk some sense into her. If anything happens to me, called the police.

I love you. And that was at ten pm.

She threatened him and Melissa and stalked him, and when he tried to end it, she accused him of rape, and when that didn't work, she fucking killed him.

And uh so the super shows up too.

I mean, it's just a fucking rat race at the precinct today. Everyone's coming in to red on Lina, so everyone hates her. So the building super gives the scoop that Lena asked him how to disable the roof door alarm like a few nights ago because she wanted to go smoke up there, but he knew it wasn't for smoking because he's caught Jean and her fucking up there before multiple times, and after Jean's death, when he went up there, the batteries were out of the alarm, so.

That's a clue.

Now, Benson and Tomorrow go to arrest Lena, and Lena's like, what why are you doing this? And Amanda's there what the fuck?

So Amanda's inner apartment and Amanda is like, what the fuck? And Benson is like disappointed, and Amanda like scoffs at her, like what the fuck are you doing?

Rollins? So I just don't get how she's a detective.

So Barbara and Rolins are talking and Lena's like, listen, Rowins wanted to call as a friend, like, she didn't make any admissions to me, And Rollins is like, I didn't even know her that well. And Barbara's like, what the fuck do you mean you didn't know her that well?

Studied episode, and she's a hero. I love her so much.

And Lena has glasses on, high collars, dress shirt like full librarian chic baby, and Nia is going after Benson hard, and this is what one of my favorite judges, Elena Barth played by Jenna Stern in nineteen episodes of the show, and she's also been on the Mothership and Criminal Intent a bunch, so dick Wolf obviously very much loves her.

So cord is happening.

But now we're back at the precinct, and Olivia does throw some shade to Rollins, like damn, you got your friend a real good lawyer.

That's that okay. Wow.

Rollins is like, hey, guys, I see this clearly I and I see it.

Why don't you guys trust me?

And It's like, oh, because you've constantly lied before and put all of us in risk constantly.

Okay.

So Benson and Rollins are like at the precinct, going into it, and Benson's like, you need to like shut up and.

Just focus on your life, girl.

So then we cut back to the meeting and Nate is talking at a meeting and he's been sober for ten years, YadA, YadA, yadda, and what do we have here?

Fucking Tomorrow.

Amorrow is undercover in a Ranger sweatshirt, looking sexy as hell again with a classic New York coffee cup, and he sees Nate as like macking on girls, Andmorrow tries to bond with him and is like, hey, what's up, Like I need some help, and Nate blows him off fully and goes off with like one of the girls that he's flirting with, and so Amarro knows what's.

Up, but and Tomorrow, and like this is more foreshadowing. I think of how Amorrow has the hots for Rollins, right, Like, obviously he's doing this to get information about the case, but I think he's also doing this to Like there's two reasons he's trying to help Rollin see that the guy she's hooking up with is like a lothario.

So they're in bed.

So Rollin's and Nate are back in bed and Ron's like, hey, do you remember how it came up that I worked in SVU?

And he was like, I don't know. Maybe I could have mentioned it, Like he doesn't, I don't, okay, so implying that he probably is the one that told Lena, right.

Like that's like the implication.

Yeah, and so, and through their combo we find out the defense is calling a man to take the stand, Lena is going to take the stand to and then while they're talking about this court case, he's kissing her on her and lying to her face, and we hate him. We also hate Melissa, who's now taking this stand because you know she's boring at sex boo.

We hate her.

So she's on the stand and saying that he was doing anything you could to get away from her. That Lena was sending videos to Melissa of them fucking and all these messages saying that like he would like he's mine, He's gonna leave you.

And once like she.

Realized Jeane didn't want her, she screamed rape and when no one believed her, she killed him. So you know, that's a great testimony. But now it's Nia's turn to go for Melissa. And Melissa, I mean, she gets swept, what is it, wiped the floor with She's basically like he said he would marry you, but you've never set a date. There was no venue booked, and he kept

Like shut up?

And then Amorrow makes the number one mistake of all time and tells her to calm down.

Bad move.

She's not gonna calm down, and so Amaro's like, listen, I went with the other guys and they all said he sucks and he's shady in a thirteen stepper, which means like he's always fucking new girls. And Rollin's like, you're just jealous and you're addicted to your own a misery and I see he's like whoa, whoa, whoa relaxed, and she's like, none of you are my dad's.

Like you wish they were your dad's Your real dad sucks. These guys are good.

Guys generally, yeah, And the men are just sitting there being like Wow, that sucks, and it's like Rollins is just so wrong. We see it, everyone sees it, and she's just like a fucking dummy, so like it's you know, usually I would try to be on a woman's side,

And she know she's putting out what is.

It, like the violence she's making the little people play, the little violence, whatever that is, and so, but Barbara is ready to like fuck with her. So Barbara is like, Lena, are you really upset that the rape charges didn't stick?

Or are you mad that he didn't leave his fiance? Rude? And she's like, how dare you? Because I was raped?

And he's like, yeah, but you invited him in and you sucked his dick on the roof, so what's happening? And Barbara's like, like, so you're telling me he came and then immediately became violent, Like that makes no sense, Like you you know, you're usually chill after you come. And she's like, stop yelling at me. It's like my dad, and so a lot of dad stuff in this episode. You know, he asks why did you lie to the

It is really uncomfortable.

Well, for a detective, she's not picking up on a lot of fucking like signals and signs and evidence like you she get a little bit more.

She's acting like a real cop, which is nice.

Yeah, Amorro is like, yo, I don't think you want to do that, and she's like, I don't think I asked for your opinion, bitch. So Rollin's is fuming, and Benson goes to like just chill her out and is like, girl, like, relax and maybe you should go talk to someone.

Maybe you should go to.

Therapy, and Rollin says something that she thinks is a burn, but it really isn't. She goes, oh, I don't have to pay for someone to listen to my problems. And it's like okay, yeah, you just go to meetings where you're being fully used and taken advantage of and you're a fucking idiot. So Nate's on the stand and Nia is playing softball with him, and then Barba is about to just like go down, and I forgot.

To say that. Amorro does smell.

Rollins like, you probably don't want to go watch Nate's testimony, and she's like fuck you, you know, like we.

Know something's about to happen.

So Barbara is like, oh, you're a therapist, and it's like, no, you're not, which I loved that little sass. But Nate admits he's had sex with Lena, and Lena turns around and gives Amanda like puppy dog eyes like I'm so sorry. Barba asks when is the last time you fucked her? And it was one week ago. So while he's fucking Rollins, he's fucking Lena and it's all coming out on the stand and he admits that Rollins didn't know about Lena,

She will never grow or change or be a better person.

He meets her at the elevator and is like, I know you're upset, Like let's just talk.

Let's go to a meeting. Quotes quotes coats forgive and forget.

You know, I still believe you, Amanda, to progress, not perfection.

Don't give up on the program.

She doesn't say anything back to him, and Barbara comes and says sorry to her and he had to do it. She's not angry with him, which is correct. She only has herself to be angry at.

Okay, so you know she is guilty. Lena is guilty.

The jury finds are guilty of murder, and she's remanded for sensing. Bye, bitch, go to jail. Glasses invests are not going to help you.

Here.

Rollin's and Ice and Craigan are chatting and she's like, I don't feel better yet, even when she was guilty, and Ice invites her for a beer, but she's like, no, I'm just going to go to a meeting.

Does she go to a meeting? No, she goes to the casino.

She's keeps hitting the blackjack thing and she's looking cigarettes so cool.

Damn Well wow that because like this Lena woman was like very pre like this all goes to the premeditation was how she slept with Nay and like like got into the got to know Rollins and got close to Rollins.

Also she could kind of pull off this crime.

Yeah, you know, like that's really sort of very diabolical. Well wait until you hear about the real crime. This is based on We will be right back, Okay. So this crime is typically unfortunately called the Jody Arias case, even though it is the case of the murder of Travis Alexander. But this you probably have heard about this case because it was truly one of the biggest cases in the last decade, and it was fully covered on CNN. HLN had a full nighttime show dedicated to it.

I remember watching it on TV on like you know where I was.

I was at the comedy condo of Zany's Downtown and watching it on TV because it was like a TV with ten channels, and I was like, I guess they have hl and I'm going to watch a shit down about this weird Mormon murder or whatever. And then later when I was living when I was in La on a trip, I remember finding a Huffington Post article that was just a one hundred and fifty slide slide show of this case.

And I stayed up till three.

In the morning just like going through crime scene photos and like finding out every detail about this case. So needless to say, I've been, I've been. I've been studying this case before. I'm not going to say I remember everything that I learned in twenty thirteen, but I have re researched it for the purposes of the pod.

So let me start from the beginning.

Travis Alexander was just a young guy, a salesman, a motivational speaker for a company called pre Paid Legal Services, living in Mesa, Arizona. Everybody loves this guy. He's got family, he's got friends. He had a kind of a rough childhood growing up, like he had abusive, drug addicted parents, but he, you know, overcame everything and had like a great professional life and lots of friends, and everybody spoke of him.

Like he was just the greatest, nicest guy.

But of course he's like he's about to hit thirty, and he's Mormon and he's not married, so he is sort of like people are kind of like, when are you going to settle down?

Blah blah blah.

So in September of two thousand and six, Travis meets a hot, young bottle blonde named Jody Arius at a Prepaid Legal conference in Las Vegas. Okay, these two immediately hit it off. They have chemistry. They start talking on the phone like multiple is.

The prepaid part important? Yeah, it's called that's the name of the place.

It's called the the place called PPL pre Paid Legal, And I think that's like their services are, like it's probably similar to like who set up my business account? You go like on the internet and like get all these legal services like in a bubble. I thought they like prepaid for their tickets to the conference.

And it's like, is this a clue.

Oh no, that's the name of the business.

Yeah, the name of the business is Prepaid Legal. So they start talking on the phone all the time, high school style. She lives in Palm Desert, California, shout out to Palm Springs area, and he lives in Mace, Arizona. So they're long distance and to give you an idea of how quickly things are moving, they meet in September of two thousand and six, and in November of two thousand and six, Jody is baptized by Travis in a

If I'm not Mormon.

So she starts like the process of I don't really know what the Mormon conversion process is. All I read was that she was baptized in this Mormon ceremony.

Yeah, I bet it's like all you have to do is want to be a Mormon and dunk in a lake like they're desperate for new followers.

Yeah.

And we actually just watched my big fact Greek wedding yesterday starring me of Ardalas, and her husband gets baptized in.

The Greek Orthodox Church to marry her.

So I just watched a weird baptism of a grown man yesterday, but this was a woman, and he did it for her. And then they begin dating in February of two thousand and seven. I don't know if they had like a busy Christmas season. I don't know why they couldn't start dating right after the dunk, but I guess you know. So, premarital sex in the Mormon Church is a huge no no.

But they these two are banging like it is their job.

They're having tons and tons of sex. His friends all think Jody is very weird. She's very sexual. She like straddles him like this, one I watched this twenty twenty about it, where this one woman's like me and my husband are just with them in a hot tub, the four of us, and she's straddling him forward facing and like kissing his neck while the other two of us are in the hot tub. Like she's very awkward, but a lot of that was part of her asserting her

I like it.

So that's like exactly kind of like wow texts that we're seeing from Jean and uh Lena in episode Okay, after they break up, she does a totally normal thing and moves from California.

To Arizona to be near him.

She moves to Mesa, Arizona, like the town he lives in, and so his friends are all like, this girl is psycho.

He's been dating another girl.

And twice while he's at this girl's house, he comes out and his tires are slashed, So like, obviously they think that's Jody. That's not just like a thing that keeps happening at this girl's house.

So they never got married. Oh no, no, no, So he's just this.

I guess I assumed he was a virgin till thirty waiting for marriage, but he was a slutty Mormon.

Who's slutty Mormon? Okay.

And we find out a little bit later that they do do a lot of anal sex because like you know how Mormons will think that that's not real sex or whatever, like anal and oral, but then they all have regular like penetrative vaginal sex. And so yes, he's breaking Mormon rules left and right because he's like so horny for her. You can like tell when you see these text messages and hear these recorded conversations like that they are just like little fuck machines for each other.

The Murder Hotel one? Hotel Cecil?

Yeah, the Hotel's Cecil Hotel one, Like everything in that whole like documentary series, was like her blog and like it's always cryptic shit that doesn't mean anything, like he writes on his Oh, she writes on her blog, I cannot ignore that there is an ever present yearning and desire that pulses within me. It throbs for gratification and fulfillment.

They have sex.

They have a lot of sex, and they take all these sexually explicit photos which you can see in the Huffington Post slide show that I mentioned earlier, if you're interested. There are black bars over the naughty bits, but the photos are there.

And then nobody hears from Travis.

After June fourth, for a few days, okay, Jodi drives to go visit this Mormon meatthead guy that she started to date in Utah that she also met at another prepaid legal conference.

This girls like a conference.

Rat, and he says that they make out passionately. That her and this guy they don't have sex, but he says it doesn't seem like she's got anything on her mind.

Nothing seems off with her at all.

On June ninth, five days later, friends have not heard from Travis.

They go to his apartment.

What I think is weird is in the twenty twenty thing they say he has roommates, and I'm like, was nobody home like?

Because he is found.

When they go into his apartment, they find that his apartment is covered in blood. He is dead in the shower, decomposing and starting to mummify, like when they go into the room, they can smell immediately.

So I don't understand why.

These roommates didn't like sense anything. Maybe they were out of town.

I think he lived in a house and he had his own wing of the house type situation. Oh okay, well he had housemates, that's right, and they were like on a different side. So maybe they just missed each other coming in and.

Out or something.

Yeah, that's creepy if I knew I was sleeping for four days and nights with like my dead roommate in my house.

Oh my god. Anyway, nightmare fuel.

So his wounds are so extensive, it's like very very disturbing. So you know, I don't know, fast forward thirty seconds if you don't want to hear about this, But he's been stabbed twenty seven times. His throat is slit, like very deeply, like it's cut his voice box, his arteries, like it's a very deep like ear to ear slit, and he's been shot in the head with a twenty five caliber gun.

So the scene is.

Really really horrific, like splatter everywhere, it's like a dexter situation. They find a bloody print, like I read a fingerprint, but I also read palm print, but it's like a bloody print, and they find a hair. Basically a week after the body is found, Jody voluntarily goes to the Mesa Pola department and it's like, I really want to help. I heard that my friend Travis died. And this is just like textbook narcissism, Like she just needs to insert

Or maybe that was an excuse I used. I don't remember. But the memory card they obviously recover.

They have their own Taru person and they recover these photos that are all these sexual photos of Travis and Jody, and then these kind of aready type photos of Travis in the shower, like him with his arms up or like leaning against the tile with the water running on him. You can see all these photos in the slide show. And then there's literally a photo of his body on the floor of the bathroom, bloody and like have being

And then the DNA results come.

Back, and all the forensic results come back, and the hair belongs to Jody, and the bloody print had Jody's DNA and Trump and Travis's DNA.

And in theory, she could have just went to hang out with another boyfriend and never called them or talked to them, and they would never have her DNA or find her.

Yeah, well, I think once they found the pictures, they would have they would have brought her in, you know, on the camera.

Yeah, but if she took the camera, I'm saying if there was like oh yeah, if she took the camera, if she if she just took the camera and hung out and never talked to them, they would probably have not found her for a while or not found her yeah.

Or yeah, because they would have had to have like a reason to get her DNA, Like I don't know. Yeah, it's it's wild, like how she almost wanted to get caught, but she has this weird personality that you find out about more later that it's like did she just want to be like infamous and be famous in a way, Like it's she's very very strange person. So they have her in for interrogation and she's denying having anything to do with the murder. She's just like, I want to

Witness just leave. That's what her story is.

And the investigator is straight up like, okay, bitch, that's the craziest shit.

I've ever heard.

This is like, not true, and then he tells her that they're going to book her, and she goes, I know this is going to sound like really weird or shallow, but is there any way I can clean myself up a little bit before you take my mugshot and like my book like book me? And he's like, no, you're going in a you are like, we're not giving you a hair and makeup sessh before you get your fucking

Special I watched about this case.

She starts acting crazy like and this reminds me of Amanda an Ox a little bit. You know how Amanda Knox case, Like she was her roommate had just been murdered, and she was like making out with her boyfriend and doing cartwheels and shit on the side. Like it is weird behavior, But with Jody Arius, it's even stranger because she's like in police custody and they've just told her we're going to book you.

She like puts her whole body back over her chair.

And does this weird like yoga backbend over her chair that is like weirdly sexual. And then she starts singing, Oh Holy Night. She's just like singing, which I have to admit as a Jew. That is my favorite Christmas song. I do love a Holy Night, And now she's kind of fucking ruined it for me because I'm going to think about her every time I hear it.

And then she does a headstaine. She does a full headstand. Jingle bells, Oh I love I like.

Jingle bells, but oh Holy Night is my is my favorite. I just think it's a beautiful song.

She sounds like a mad TV character. No, she's happens so.

Strange, Like she's so strange, and it's very bizarre and performative, like she must know people are watching.

She might, you know, Like it's just so weird.

She does a full head stand up against the wall and it's very weird. So if you want to google Jody Area's headstand, you can watch the whole video. Is it a good headstand? Yeah, I mean she's very fit. You know, you can tell that she works out. She's very thin, and like, you know, she just goes right up in this graceful headstand and you're just like damn girl, but also you crazy. So while she awaits trial, she does all these interviews. Okay, so in her first interviews,

Okay.

A year in two thousand and nine, she starts giving interviews about the ninja story. Okay, well, no, I mean people are maybe believing this.

I don't know.

It really makes no fucking sense. December of twenty ten, which is crazy. She's now in jail like a year and a half, just like a waiting trial and obviously not getting bail because of the heinous nature of the crime.

So I saw that's also there's also a video of that. She's okay. I wouldn't give her a record contract, but she's a fine singer. I love this case.

I'm so sad about the murder and whatever transpired, but I'm very into the antics.

It's so crazy. It's antic central, and I don't.

Understand why SVU and throw us a singing competition in this episode. Let's get Lena in jail, but it's like X Factor because they have to change it a little bit. So it's just like inmates turning around in their chairs being like I pick you.

And so she's giving all these interviews. She's like winning American Idol contest in jail. She's just getting all this press and like, obviously Travis's family is like devastated.

They loved him. You can tell how much they loved.

Him in all these interviews, Like and then they see this pretty young woman getting all this media coverage and it must have just been very devastating for them to have to see her all the time.

And I mean it gets worse.

Let me get to what is her third and final version of her story, which is that she claims that she was the victim of domestic violence and that she was that she killed Travis in self defense. And one more thing, she claims that Travis was a pedophile. She claims that he wrote her letters where he confessed to his attraction to young boys and girls.

The letters were like never found or I think a judge tried to.

Have them admitted, and they were not admitted because I don't think they were real.

And they found nothing on.

His computers, like nothing in his house that showed that he might have had these kind of proclivities or you know that he was into that kind of thing. She claims that the day of the murder, she walked in he was masturbating to a picture of a young boy. They never found the picture. Is that something you grabbed on your way out of the house, Like the photo was never there. So basically, her third and final version of the story is that she did kill him in self defense.

I'll get into it a little bit more later.

And then she tries to completely attack his character and for his family, like they talk about it in this documentary twenty twenty, thing like where that was so hard for them. Not only have you lost this family member, but now his killer is painting this insane picture of him that's not true, and that is like disrespectful and horrible. So her trial begins on January second of twenty thirteen, and she's a totally different looking person. This is again

That's not real. Yeah, that's what we forget.

We always talk about how good like murderers are such good actors, but some are just bad liars and actors too, you know, like, yeah, this is a great example of someone who just really failed her improv one on one class, just can't get it together.

Yeah.

But she, I think believed like they were talking about when she was making up the ninja story, I mean she made that up on the spot because that she made that up right after she said I wasn't there and I didn't do anything. When they confronted her, she was like, Okay, here's what happened with the ninjas. It's like, so she either had that pre prepared or she made

Apparently, like I it's.

Maybe happened before, but it's not a common thing, especially in a case that's getting so much media coverage. And I think she thought I got to get my face out there, I got to be heard. He once people see how like cute and like shy and demure I am, they'll never think that I could have done such a heinous crime, and so her defense that what she testifies about on the stand is that Travis freaked out when she dropped camera and that she had to defend herself.

No.

I mean, I do think there are cases like this where men can show a different side, you know, of themselves. But like they brought in other women he dated, They brought in next girlfriends. They were like, never, never, ever, did he ever do anything remotely violent or show a temper towards me. Obviously there's only the two people in a relationship know what goes on in that relationship. But you're not getting it's not we're not getting a picture

Wish she broke out into song that way. I know that would have really since this is my favorite case of her.

She was like, there's one song that can express how I feel, and then she like sings Lady Marmaline.

Okay.

Arizona is one of the states where jurors are allowed to ask questions after the prosecution and the defense have rested. They asked a hundred questions, and that really showed how skeptical they were about her testimony. So there was a

People really wanted her to get the death penalty.

The first trial for her death penalty sentencing was like a mistrial because, like I think, the jury just could not decide, and then eventually she was given life in prison, so she was able to avoid the death penalty. She did testify it her death penalty hearing, saying I've designed a T shirt and it's like this white T shirt that just says survivor and purple on it, and it's

She was very strange. She would have actually done good out here in the world.

Oh, she was doing merch. Girl, she has she was doing merch. Her brothers opened an eBay account where she sells art she makes in prison.

There's all kinds of shit this girl is doing.

So does she have like lover fans like male killers do, like our people.

I'm sure, I'm.

Sure I didn't read anything about that, but like, I am sure that she does.

How do you think our friend Joyce Arts Management will react when I start buying Jody arias?

Do you think they can get d I would love to find out from her how serial killer art is like, or killer art is like valued, and how it appreciates over time.

I do have to know Jody did have a boyfriend for a while. I remember that in NGEL. Yeah, I would visit it a lot.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure like she's I mean, she's like a cute girl, Like I'm sure people were like, you're so she also and this might.

Be rude because like, obviously it's sad this man is dead. But I do wonder if the victim was a woman not a guy, if they would have used her sexual.

Kinks against her to be like she deserved it. No, I know, And I wonder. I think that what everybody was saying was like this case was so it was so popular because it was like dripping with sex.

That's like what the people were saying, like there was just so much sex.

There's so many text messages where they're like she's like we're just horny toads, Like I want to fuck you so bad, like my pussy's wet, Like she sends all these crazy texts. There's recorded message, Like there's recorded phone conversations though that are recorded because she recorded them to use them against him later, Like she would record these sexual conversations with him, like I think in a way to say, like if you ever leave me, I'll send these to.

The Mormon church.

So she had some issues, and I yeah, I don't think that anyone's like sexual kinks should be used against them, But I think because of the Mormon community that she was in and the fact that she was doing all this other possessive, crazy shit, it all kind of paints a picture of a person who's not fully with it. I did want to mention that they tried to appeal this case, saying, you know, because of the media, she didn't get a fair trial, and also because Juan Martinez,

But she's still in jail.

And I even after the disbarment of this prosecutor, the judges who decide whether she's going to get an appeal said, even though he had egregious behavior, you were convicted like completely.

Correctly, and you're not going anywhere. Baby. I wonder if she's popular in prison.

I am obsessed with her, Like I do understand the commotion the world had, yeah, and I want to know, like.

Is she like, damn, that wasn't worth it.

I'm in jail, or she like still thinks she's innocent, or is she just crushing it? In jail and she's so crazy that it doesn't matter, and she's living in a fantasyland like I just want to know everything.

Yeah, she's very chaotic and art good or gen z. But I think that is what drop people to it, like what you're just like full and you get the feeling that she believes everything that she's saying because like in her mind maybe it's true, but she It just to me is like the whole They dated for four months, you know, and I know that they kept up the

Was it about him or would she have killed someone else the next boyfriend?

Yeah, yeah, who knows?

Wow, But I think it's it's interesting how SBU did sort of like this. They took this case, but this case is very like Arizona Mormons, like they so they took whatever they could and like put it in a New York setting, you know, in the SV episode. But it is just like I always want to believe women, and I do think that it is a small, small, small percentage of people like this that are or like the Lena character, that are fully inventing a scenario and having up you.

Know, psychology.

Yeah, And I always say, like, you know, people lie about being robbed or insurance scams or so many different crimes, and it never takes away the legitimacy of other people who have been robbed. And I don't understand how only in rape and sexual assault cases are a few like this tiny population that lies is not just seen as like, oh,

And so it is very annoying that like.

Why the small percentage of women suddenly represent all the women that are attacked.

I mean, I know why patriarchy, but no, that is such a good point.

I never thought about that, Like this is the only kind of case where like the bad actions of a few affect the many. Yeah, as like that doesn't happen, and like, yeah, like wrongful accusations of robbery or like larceny or fucking tax evasion or whatever. I think it because it's always it's always couched as this crazy bitch is trying to take this man's life down, is trying to ruin this man's life, and it's like in this case, yes, but that is a very small percentage.

I think.

The topic of religion also is interesting.

Of Travis. Alexander was a very devout man.

He wore like a ring I think for like being a verge, and then he fell in love I think, or had this passionate thing for Jodie, and.

So he was torn.

But he broke it up because he was like, I know I'm doing something wrong, but he was so yeahing towards her, like it makes I don't know, I just feel like the idea of religion as a thing.

No, it's so true.

Really, the whole the religion thing does add like another layer to it because it's like in any other world, if he wasn't religious, he could have just like been having sex with this woman or wouldn't have been the shame and they could just be horny for each other.

But I mean I.

Think also, yeah, I think it was like another It was probably another thing where that made Jody feel inadequate or like an outsider and probably fueled like the rage more, you know, like I got baptized for you, you son of a bitch?

Like who knows? You know, like what, who knows what went through her mind?

I hope I would love for her to do some kind of like jailhouse confessional and say, like here's what I was thinking, or like, you know, you're not getting out of jail anytime in your life, so you might as well give us some insight into what the hell was going through your mind, Like did you drive there specifically to do that? Did it like just hit you at some point or did he say did he say that's the last time.

We're ever doing this or something?

After you guys had all this horny sex and then you were like, you know, like I don't know, Well, we won't know until she tells us.

Or were their ninjas, you know? Or were their ninjas? Lisa.

This is like when that guy in that episode said I saw ghosts of the KKK in the hallway and you were like, we can't say he didn't. So the ninjas could also be The ninjas could also be real.

Well, we have a hot ass guest. Can't wait?

Yeah, excited, stick around. We'll be right back with our guest, our next guest. We're so excited to bring you this chat. He is a stage actor who originated the role of Greg in Neil Abute's Reasons to Be Pretty, where he was nominated for a Tony and you know him from TV from HBO's The Newsroom and Life in Pieces, but on SVU you know him as Nate Davis. Check out our chat with the very talented Thomas Sadowski.

We did watch all of your episodes, so if you want to talk about.

Yeah, you're a three pete defender on SVO.

Murder Douche and then you come back to redeem yourself.

A little bit, right. I actually managed to show up and get a little bit of a yeah, yeah, I did the the Sbu gambit. I think I did the trifecta of all the Law and Order shows, if I remembered quickly, I did the original recipe, Extra Crispy and the Colonel's Blend. Yeah.

Well, a lot of actors we talked to say that it's like a rite of passage to get on the Law and Order shows. As a New York actor, did you feel that way when you got booked?

Oh? Yeah, for sure. I mean, not only is it a right of passage, but particularly like when I first started coming up in the business in the late nineties and early two thousands, there wasn't a whole lot of stuff that was shooting in New York. And like definitely post nine to eleven, like there wasn't really anything that was shooting in like the industry bailed on New York.

Wait, what are the weird Wait?

Okay, So every time I've ever gone into meet with Dick Wolf. He's been wearing pink socks.

Wow, goop.

I don't know if that's like a daily thing or if it's just one of those weird coincidences in my life, but I always associate I always associated mister Wolf of pink socks.

Well, I was gonna say, not only are all your friends are on SVU, but your wife Amanda has been on SVU.

Have you seen her episode?

I have seen her episode. We were actually talking about it when I told her I was doing this podcast that was well SVU and she was like, she was like, I did this for you, and I'm like, I know you did this for you, Like Michael O'Keefe played your father.

No, and we found Michael O'Keeffe as one of our first guests on the podcast, and both of.

You guys, oh, that's very nice. I should hope you had Michael on the Patent podcast because he literally there was a rule that was put in place called the foul. Did he tell you about this?

Yes?

He told us, Okay, good, Yeah, Yeah. He should have been like among the first guests you ever had because he is mister lawn order. I think he's the only person who has appeared on those shows as much as like Maloney or Marishka or you know or Sam or any of the old school heavies. But yeah, yeah, I love Michael. He's a great dude, he's a he's a good friend family.

Yeah.

So so basically you did do you did do original recipe and then you did this Criminal Intent all before you did this view. So by the time you did this view where they just like calling you in being like we want you to do this part.

Yeah, okay, Yeah, So Warren called me, Warren like called me for SEU and said, like, you know, do you want to come in and play this part opposite Kelly? And I was like, yeah, totally absolutely, and he was like, I don't know, you know, it might come back and might not. I'm not sure what the deal is going to be with it whatever, And I was like okay, So I agreed to come in and do it, and we had a blast shooting the first episode and they sort of mentioned like, yeah, I think we'll probably do

That we have like three questions about the hat.

I'm sure you do. I had many as well. I was like, I was like, Warren, why do I have to wear this douche hat? And he was like, because you're a douche And I was like no, but can I take it off in some of these scenes? And he was like, no, you're a douche, so you wear the douche hat. And I was like, bro, like, I'm really unhappy with the douche hat. And it was like, I kind of don't care, Like I think it it has to be on all the time. And we had a lot of fun of knocking it back and forth.

That is so funny.

We literally have like in our list of questions, like so, uh, you play a douchebag a bunch of times?

How do you like to? Because the hat really does the layer. There were so many layers.

Yes, so many layers. I threatened to throw that hat into the East River. There was a scene I think we were shooting outside.

You were like walking her dog right by.

The room, walking her dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and we we shot that like you know, like oh dark hundred, so it was wick and cold, and I remember threatening Warren like, if you think for a second that you're going to have me back a second episode and make me wear this hat, I'm going to go throw it in the river right now. And he was like, do you think we only bought one?

When you did come back that same season in the Gridiron Soldier episode, I.

Don't think you have the hat anymore?

Right?

Did you win the battle?

I eventually won the battle. Well, I think what ended up happening is because there's a little bit of redemption coming my way in that episode is that he felt like if we kept the hat that I couldn't be redeemed.

Exactly impossible to guess redevable.

It is unforgivable. Absolutely, it is a blight upon humanity and all who wear it are cursed. But that's really how I differentiate my douchey characters that I played throughout my career is just different hats and invests.

Yeah, because I was just wondering, because you know, when when we were finding out we were interviewing you, I was like, oh, I remember him. I think I first saw you in The Slap That was like the first thing I saw you in.

And your character is a little bit of a in the Slap, right.

Yeah, for sure, he's not the most pleasant guy at the beginning, right. Yeah.

So I was like, I was just wondering. I was like, yeah, we got we got the slap guy. We got this character. Like do you feel like you often get cast in these juicy roles or like you're you're good at it? And like where do you get your inspiration from? Do you know a lot of douches in your real life? Yeah, if there's any names you can name, yeah, names, you know.

It started to become like I started to get worried at a certain point where I was like, I was like, oh my god, is this how the world perceives me?

Like, oh, like the nice guy on stage.

Yeah, yeah, I Oh. So it was when I first started doing film, it was like, Oh, what a welcome change, Like I get to play these this, these shitty guys that I love making fun of because I grew up around a lot of them. And then all of a sudden it became like, oh, I keep on getting cast uh in film as this, and most people know me outside of New York from filmwork. Obviously not a lot of people have seen off Broadway theater outside of New York City, and so in an even Broadway, you know,

Did you do theater in high school?

Oh yeah, for sure. I actually got kicked out of my high school theater program.

What did you do?

Because our theater teacher wanted to do like these really intensely Christian plays And I was like that's bullshit, Like we're in a public high school. We can't do it. Like that doesn't seem right to me at all. And so like that started me off on the wrong track with her pretty early on, and then I just, yeah, I had a real hard time I had I didn't respect her at all, and I had a really hard time keep my mouth shut about it, you know. I mean, like I said, I was like this weird little punk

And that's awesome.

It was really beautiful.

It's just such a.

Nice like lesson in story to hear that you got kicked out of this thing but then found a community that you loved so much more and I got really lucky.

Yeah. I mean I think that people you like finds like right, like, if you make yourself available to it, I think, and you persevere, you will eventually like you'll find your your equilibrium and you'll find your tribe so to speak.

Yeah, can I ask an ask you question again?

Did you did you ever like watch the show?

Oh? Yeah, I love Maloney, I love Marisca, Like they're fantastic, like truly truly amazing actors and so like, yeah, I definitely watched the show. Like I said, you know, when you go out of town, you like flip on and it's like makes you feel like you're home.

You can't ever not find it. It's always on the road.

And your first episode you were on, you were on a Marishka Maloney season.

Yeah, although I think you may have been more.

Of an Iced Tea heavy episode when you were in that episode anchor where you're like a racist. Yeah, how do you prep to be a child murderer? Yeah, when you remember when you murdered all those kids.

Oh my god, that was a nice heavy episode.

And you called him a racial slur.

I did, which was one of the I gotta tell you, dude, like in terms of days in your career, when you're like you don't really know if you want to wake up in the morning and go to work, Like that day, I was definitely I can't believe I have to go in and say this to Iced Tea to his face. Like I loved Iced Tea growing, you know what I mean,

You know what I mean.

You did get like a razzle dazzle moment on the stand with Barbara.

Barbara, I keep.

Going over with the da and I was just wondering how that court scene was and like getting drilled like that.

It's fun. I love I love Raoul. We're old like theater rat buddies. So like when I knew that we were going to get to go, you know, have like a good time back and forth. And Danny Pino too. You know, there was a in rapist Anonymous, there was I got to do a scene with Danny, Yeah, who came into the meeting at the end, you know what I mean and like sort of suss me out or whatever.

You got to be in that box. Yeah, that's so cool.

Well, and like so many of them around to you know what I mean. Like I've known Warren as a playwright for forever, and I mean one of the great My first my first Law and Order of the franchise was with was in the original recipe, and it looked like I was gonna shoot Sam Waterston in that episode. There was there was a scene where like we're on the courthouse steps and I pull out a gun and

So our listeners really our horny for Raoul and Danny and so do you have any like stories or tidbits from set or from life that you think they would really love to hear?

Oh my god, Raoul did a play on Broadway with Jeremy Piven, and Jeremy left the show.

Was that speed the plow?

Yeah, I just sort of left them hanging, you know what I mean, like in the middle of the run because he got murcury repeats, Yeah.

He got mercury poisoning from too much sushi.

I'm eating too much sushi, right, And so we were doing a show on Broadway at the same time, me and Stephen Pasquale and Hyperparabo, and we're in Ireland. We're doing a show on Broadway at the same time. And after our shows we were having people like guest artists come in and like lead these q and as. And then and Raoul came in one night to do our guest Q and A and we bought him like four hundred dollars for this sushi tod to sit and eat at the as we were doing our Q and A. It was pretty fun.

That is really funny.

Now the show just closes because no one is in and everyone has had sushi poisoning.

Exactly and weirdly, like none of us got mercury poisoning. We were all total with them. But yeah, I mean, you know, like I said, like I I've had the great experience of knowing these people as friends for a long long time and his colleagues, and like Raoul is one of those people that you know, he makes you like. Raoul and I were actually nominated against each other for

And a good bunch.

It was ridiculous.

Yeah, it was a grownd to be amongst for sure.

It was ridiculous. Yeah, we got to spend a lot of quality time together with those guys. Except for Jeffrey, he was like really aloof and didn't hang out with anybody, But like Jimmy Candelfini and jeff and Rowell and I like, we got to know each other pretty well hanging out and doing all these functions and events and stuff. Roll is one of those guys that, like, he's one of those actors that I will He's one of those guys that makes me leave out of my chair at the

Yeah, we get sent a lot of clips of him from our listeners.

They love him.

They send us clips of him, like from a company I think, and like all kinds of that's like, you know, raises the hairs on your arms kind of performances.

Now, he's he's pretty he's pretty ridiculous, as your listeners know. He's you know, for the people on this side of it, it's sort of like, okay, all right, come on, ask like save something for the rest of us, Like you know, you can't like you can't be that good looking, have that cool of a name, and be that talented in so many factss of your life all at the same time. It's kind of bullshit, like, could you at least be like Engelbert Home have just like a shitty name or

Have any Wow, he was awesome.

He's so cool.

I love him well.

I love that he knew the hat was terrible, you know, like immediately, we didn't even have to bring it up.

Yeah, and we did not leave us thing because we don't have the dates or like know exactly what's up. But he is in an upcoming production of a play that's breaking kind of genre boundaries of what a plate eve and is with Judith Light SV Royalty. So look out for something with Judith Light in the near future, which I would be excited about.

I missed the theater. Baby. Yeah, oh my gosh, if it comes to oh, if it's in a light, let's know it. Let's we hear about it. Yeah, we'll follow him on social.

And before we get into our post mortem, I know that I referenced the X Factor and I meant to say the voice please don't send me a bunch of pictures of Adam Levine turning around in a chair to let me know that I.

Was talking about the wrong show. I got it, I know.

Oh, there was a funny meme about you know, Gwen Stefani and Blake Shelton. Yeah, I got married, and it was like, Gwen Stefani is the perfect example of an OC girl. She was a punk ska girl goddess and then ended up marrying the most conservative, boring white man she could find named Blake. And I thought that was a pretty funny tweet. I have to send it to our friend Blair, our OC girl. Yeah she is an OC lady.

That's so funny. But yeah, Gwen was like everything and now she's Oh my god.

I was obsessed with her, so no doubt in high school was like my soundtrack.

I mean, you know you're.

A badass when you can make braces be a trend, you know, Like I was begging for braces. I also begged for eyeglasses, and I wanted crutches, and I was so happy to get crutch it like it's sick. I bet there's some sort of study about this or other kids have to have really, tell me.

I used fake crutches for three days.

I got crutches, I didn't need them, and I wore them to school for three days.

Yeah. I think it's just the attention. When someone has crutches, You're like, look at.

Me, Like I know, I was jealous of people with their pink casts.

Oh yeah, I never I've never knocked on wood, but one wood. Well, let's talk. Let's do post mortem. What did we learn from this episode?

I mean, like, if someone's wearing a douche hat, guess what they're a douche.

Yeah, you don't have to get to know them. You can judge a book by its cover. You can judge a douche by its hat. Yeah, I guess.

I mean, like we've said before, like we've said in the episode, I feel like we always believe women, but that doesn't mean that there's not an occasional Jody.

Arius out there.

And the thing is to think about this woman, not Jody. I'm not I don't I don't want to defend real crime, but in the episode, we also don't know what like this chick's been through, you know what I mean, Like who knows if she was abused as a young person, and this is what happens.

Yeah, don't get blow jobs on a ledge.

I yeah, even if someone is your what like, you feel committed and fully trusting and they haven't threatened you and tried to.

Destroy your life.

Just no, BJ's no fucking no nothing by alledge.

Let's do that.

No ledge fucks, no ledge fucks for sure, that's a little bit too.

Edgy for me.

I would not.

I also learned that there's leftover jiz in your dick after you come.

That was me.

Yeah, better pee and clear that shit out. That's probably how guys get UTI's or something.

I don't know. I used to have a joke about com dripping out and you running to the bathroom, but I don't remember it fully.

I had a joke about hobbling to the bathroom after you have sex when you're the woman.

Yeah, no, that's what I mean. I obviously didn't have a dick hobbling a bit. Maybe would, Maybe I would. I know it was a personal experience joke. I was so excited.

I you know, sometimes when crowds are like too hip and cool, I was like, are they going to be into this?

But they love my nine to eleven joke? And I'm like, oh, this is good.

You know, this is for you listeners that you need to see Lisa Tregger Live to get that nine to eleven content. Backstage, everyone's like, the audience seems really likable.

You're gonna love it.

I go, yeah, no, I'm not likable. I'm like, I'm not worried about them being likable, worried about me. Ah, what else about this episode?

Wrong?

Yes, means like get a like. I guess what we've learned that we've known is that Rollins is a good detective and in her job and a horrible detective in her life, like she cannot she does not have a good picker for men.

Do you think Kelly Giddish knows how hated Amanda Rollins is because the messages we get like I posted the game this last week, but Kelly get her.

Then there's Kelly Giddish fan accounts, so I'm sure she's like, you know, for every person that's like fuck you, there's somebody that like screams at us when we don't know the name of her dog.

So yeah, you know, yeah, I guess that's fame.

Baby.

I don't want to say, like, don't trust your sponsor, but don't trust a guy that is only kind to women he wants to fuck.

Yeah, and note to women, I wouldn't trust a guy that's only surrounding himself with women in an AA setting. You know, he wouldn't help Danny Pino like he doesn't want to help men, He just wants to help women.

But I bet he doesn't want to help women that he doesn't want to fuck.

To write, I'm sure of like a non conventionally attractive woman went in and was like, can you help me, he'd be like, I'll load it up, babe, find another sponsor.

Also, don't scream you're not my daddy at work to your coworkers.

I think that's good advice. Yeah, that's really embarrassing. That's a great. That's just a great. That's all over. That's like cops not any yeah, any job. Yeah.

If I see and all your other detective friends are like, this guy seems shady, maybe take a second moment, you know, take a moment to be like, Okay, all my esteemed colleagues don't like this guy.

Let's see what's that.

Yeah, And like, there's a reason why they tell you not to date people in AA because when it doesn't work out, you end up ripping butts at a blackjack table, Like you just need to work on your sobriety before you.

I don't know, date, I don't know. I don't know.

Well, you're only doing this because of the movie twenty eight Days, right, No, I've never even seen that, Are you kidding?

We've talked about this, I think before too. It is an awesome movie.

It's Sandra Bullock, she goes to rehabs star studies.

Yeah, yeah, I know what it's about.

But yeah, but that's where I learned you shouldn't date for a year, and Sex and the City, that episode where she dates the guy too early and he kind of goes off the rails.

Yeah, so I've only learned that rule from television.

I also had a family member who dated somebody who was fresh out of rehab, and we were like, this might not be a good idea. And then I learned from other people like, oh yeah, they say an aa, don't date for a year. So I learned that that that way. I learned that the hard way, yeah as well. So just reiterating that as a post mortem finding for all of you and anything else.

I don't know.

No, I guess we learned that three whole wonder uh passes all standards in practice, because you know, there were lawyers discussing it.

They sent the script in. All the lawyers were sitting.

Debating about it, and then they all were like, three hole wonder stays. That's a lot.

Yeah, which is? And I guess I guess.

Also, if life gives you a murderous personality and you're a murderer, you can still be a star in jail. You know, you can still win American Idol prison edition and sell your work on eBay. And we'll be checking back with Lisa in a couple of weeks after she's acquired her Jody Area sart.

No, no, oh, yeah, did.

We learn anything from the real crime? Destroy evidence? Your fucking idiot. It's what are you doing.

Stop with the trophies, stop with the camera, stop it destroying.

It's ever really deleted? Yes? Oh these people?

I mean, have we talked about this, like if there should be escape rooms but for committing crimes and see if you get away with it.

We have talked about that. I still want to do it. That's your shark tank idea.

Think.

Yeah, we've also learned that unfortunately, if a crime involves like a hot young woman, the crime is going to be named after the hot young woman.

It's not going to be named after the victim.

Unfortunately, Travis Alexander's name is not as popular as Jodi Arius, and I think that's just because he was murdered by somebody who was considered hot.

But it must be really hard for victims' families to see their killers get fame and notoriety and attention and magazine covers, and I can't really imagine that heartache, right, And because she was also like particularly disrespectful by trying to paint him as a pedophile, like in death, Like you know, that's really horrible. So she not only took him off the earth but also tried to like drag his.

Name through the MUDs.

I'm sure his family feels a very specific way about her. But in general, don't kill people. But yeah, yeah, that's the lesson we learned. Don't kill people.

Don't kill people.

Yeah.

Eight months into the pod, finally we're like.

You know what we're not going to We're like, you know how you could avoid all this evidence?

Shit, don't kill anyone, all right.

Thank you for listening, and Kara where are we going to try to help the community. What do we have for our Sister Peg segment?

Yeah, so okay, So for this week's what would Sister Peg Do? Which is our weekly segment where we give you resources or organizations that can help you learn more about what we talked about in today's episode, we decided to highlight this week Women for Sobriety. It's womenfo Sobriety dot org. It's a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping women discover a happy new life and recovery from substance use disorders.

Thank you for that, Kara.

And next week's episode we will be doing Rooftop season three, episode four. They are on Hulu. Hopefully they didn't fuck up the numbers this week. And Peacock your library all that jazz and we can't wait to see you next week.

Bye bye.

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