Pure w/ Karen Kilgariff

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies these episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, a SVU podcast.

I'm Kara and I am Lisa, and it is.

Our one year anniversary. We're so excited we are.

And in this podcast if you just decided to join us today because we're on everyone's Spotify top five lists, we talk about an episode of SVU and then the true crime it's based on, and then we interview a guest from the episode. Today is an extra special twist on the classic and we're just so grateful for all of you, and it's truly like mind boggling.

I don't know. Yes, I meant to post on Thanksgiving.

I know it's been Thanksgivings now like a week gone by or so, but like I meant to post being like, we're so thankful for all of you.

So I'll just say it here.

We are really thankful, like you guys all sharing your the number of minutes that you guys have been watching dedicating to this, Like I mean somebody said to the screenshot that said twenty one thousand minutes of listening to us, and I was like, I don't think my mom has listened to me that much in my life, but you know, it's just really awesome.

Well yeah, and usually whenever I guess on other podcasts, it's like this bitch is so annoying, her voice sucks, and so it is. It's a nice it's a nice flip flop of like, these people are just listening to our soothing voices.

So that's pretty exciting and I'm just not used to it. You know.

San Francisco is very, very fun, and I was talking about how people were just so fucking excited to see me, and our friend Lauren was like, it's like you're complaining about being too skinny, and I'm like, no, I'm not complaining.

This is just a whole new world, do you know what I mean?

Like, usually I just for people who got free tickets, and now people were truly heckling me, yelling Rosie.

I was trying to do a joke and people just started going Rosie like from all.

Over the room at the punchline, and I was like, yeah, we love Rosie, but you did ruin my joke and I look at Yeah, but we love Rosie Moore. No, And I didn't take a shot with one girl. She really wanted to take a shot. I'm so sorry I did not take a shot with you. I had to go smoke weed.

But I appreciate you and I do have the sign that you made so thank you so much. I mean, that's the best kind of sign to be made about you. Please do a shot.

Oh my god. And we have presents. People brought you presents. I still haven't given it to you, but we'll shout we'll shout out the candles. Yeah, we have a lot to talk about. Yeah, we have so much going on weeks because obviously Thanksgiving.

You know, sometimes you guys think we record the night before.

You're like, make sure you add this, and it's like, yeah, like the day before, You'll be like, I hope you talk about this.

It's like we recorded this a while ago. Secret.

So we have to go backwards. So we have to go to your uncle's memorial. You were in New York for forty eight hours. Yeah, so I went to New York for forty eight hours. I went out to dinner with my friends. They kept being like.

Child free Kara, like they kept like cheersing because like it is really fun to be in New York without your family, Like it's super I love New York so much. And I went back for a sad occasion. My uncle passed away in March. We were finally able to do a memorial for him. And he's sort of like well

Was cool that he was.

It was cool that he came to pay his respects to my uncle even though he's in the middle of a very tragic moment in his life. But also when I first this is only gonna matter to like the five percent of this podcast audience that watches Organized Crime, one of the first people I see when I walk in is the fucking Albi's wife, the woman that Maloney is banging in OC when he's undercover.

Her.

The actress is Lolita Davidovich, and she's been in tons of stuff. She's married to Ron Shelton, who is a director who's made like White Men Can't Jump Tin Cup, like all these iconic sports movies.

And he made a movie with my uncle and that's why he was there.

And he spoke, and then I went up to his wife, like obviously after I chugged two glasses of wine right after we got to the reception, and I was like, I gotta to talk to you. I watch I watch OC. You're so great. I was like, I have a lot of order podcast. I need you to come and be on it. You need to be on SVU. And she was like, how would I do that because I don't know spoilers, but like her character just got arrested. So I was like, oh, girl, they'd bring you back. She's

Out with Malone.

Yeah that, and and she goes, I mean I was just staring at his pecks the whole time. I mean he's huge, and I was like, girl, I mean, that's exactly what I would be doing. But yeah, she was super sweet and was like giving me some tea, but I was, you know, I had had a lot of red wine, and so I think she was just mostly saying about the pecks and then she was just telling me how cool he.

Is star studded.

And then this can't be confirmed, but oh that's what we need to talk about.

House of Gucci. Okay.

Oh yeah, Kara, our friend Lauren and I we did see House of Gucci. And I am ninety nine percent sure that Billie Eilish was at the movie theater with her family. She lives in our neighborhood. She would have gone to this old timey theater and she was wearing a hood and a mask. But those eyes are recognizable him anywhere, and you know, We obviously did not approach her in anyway.

She's a teen, but I was I ran into the bathroom.

It was either Billie Eilish or somebody in serious Billie Eilish cosactly.

And then also some people were wanting to know, did I smoke weed with my nephew. Unfortunately he was a little busy and preoccupied. But I did smoke weed with his roommate, so I did. I was hanging out with his college roommate because my nephew only wanted to hang out with his girlfriend, who is a listener of the podcast Hello Too.

That's what I wanted to ask. That was my follow up question.

Has he made it to Thanksgiving break with his high school girlfriend?

High school? Well, girlfriend from high school? Oh?

Yes, yeah she was at Thanksgiving? Okay, okay, okay, Yeah, that's good. That looks good. That looks good. I'm just saying sometimes they don't make it to the holidays. That's all I'm saying. No, I love you, girl, I hope that you guys you and Benji forever. I'm just saying they're obsessed.

Truly.

I don't think he hung out with anyone else in his family except for her, and so since I am kind of alone, and then this college roommate was alone. I did have to smoke weed with his college roommate multiple times.

Who at least you didn't hook up with him. One time I looked up with one of my brother's friend. I hooked up with one of my brother's friends. My brother's nine years younger than me. I hooked up with one of his friends on a college break when I was out of college. They were in college, and I was like, this is too young. I shouldn't have done that. No, that wasn't even on my mind. It was just to make out. Just everybody knows. But still no that that was not happening in the streets.

Probably twenty and I was twenty nine. I'm not judging you, but it was.

It just wasn't a related I think, just like someone in college, because when I was in my late twenties, I did hook up with someone that was twenty two. But the mom asked me to hook up with him, and I was like, Okay, your thing's weirder, dude.

Of course, yeah, I think I've talked about in the pod.

I was after a show and the mom's like, why aren't you giving my son attention. He's hot and I'm like, yeah, he's fucking hot, and then she hugged us, and then I hugged Yeah.

Good adult. Oh.

Also in San Francisco, I met someone who did bring me a joint, thank you so much. And their cousin is the Angel of Death, the nurse who is killing people in the New England with the shots at the VFW hospital.

Oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah.

Her mom was a listener of the pod and was like hey to her daughter, like you should listen.

They're talking about our murderous cousin.

So but who writes some letters and cards to them constantly for holidays and stuff. So they get mail from prison from the Angel of dah. Wow. I'm sorry, I'm not remembering her name. We covered too many crimes. I'm sorry.

I'm like that was that like eight months ago? I don't remember. It was the episode Vulnerable.

Yes. Also today on Twitter, an actress wrote to us and said, I was the dead girl Gloria in Scavenger, the one who was found underneath all the flowers. Whoa she goes number one. I was seventeen, playing a thirty year old single mom.

I was like, wow, that's wild.

She was like, I was also in like a thong and case underneath all these flowers. And she said that that Mariska Hargata, when she like kind of pulled the flowers away, was like, don't worry, I won't let your girls out or something like that.

Well, marisch Kah, keep.

Going keep And then the last thing I asked her was I was like, did they really write on your foot like that?

And she like with the riddle or was that like a foot double?

And she was like, yeah, they did it like twice, like once in Sharpie and Munch came out and was like making all these jokes about it. I was like, it sounds like you lived the absolute best dead body dream of anybody on his view.

I wonder if it tickled. I don't know how it would be laughing out. I bet the writing, no, Marishka. Some people were sending us videos that, like some fans were trying to talk to her, and she was like, I gotta call my husband, I'll be right out.

And I just like loved that so much. And then in.

Washington Square Park she like went up to be well, She's like, hey, can you guys just like turn down the music because it doesn't really work with our scene, but I'll hang out with you and then everyone's like, we love her, so she is like out and about. And then one of my great friends, Jake Wilson, he's like one of the top sex in the city fans. I would say that, I know, And they were shooting

So wait, I'm sorry, how old would Brady be now? Like fifteen? I think he's going to college.

Wow.

I think that was the vibe of the scene from a distance, from an instant story. I don't know, like I'm just making wild accusations, but that is that is what I think. And obviously today was such an exciting day to wait. I mean, you'll, you know, everyone's sending us the Spotify. But it would be weird if we did not touch upon fucking abortion Alice see Bolt, and I think there was something else. There's just a lot of horrific things, so it would be weird not to touch on it.

But it is our party episode, so I don't know what to do.

So yeah, I would direct people to shout your abortion Jane's d process is specifically Texas, but they have other information and it's just like, you know, it's like abortions are still gonna happen. People just keep actively. Conservatives think that like they're gonna stop abortions from happening. They're so good, No, they don't care happen safely.

They actually don't care about abortion. Politicians do not care. They are doing this for their psychotic fan bases and they know it's not gonna stop abortion well, and they.

Don't care even the people, even the people, okay, the fan base that ye like if they they think that all these babies are gonna like sprout wings and be angels living among us, and it's just like that's not what's happening.

People are still gonna get abortions.

They're just gonna be doing it with pills they get off the internet that might not be approved, and like, you know, it's just not gonna be safe, and so you're really just creating like a healthcare crisis for women.

And a lot of those the comments I was seeing online that I agree with was just like how flippant they're talking about how like just give it up for adoption.

Just do it.

And it's like, pregnancy sucks and it is a hard thing. Labor is an intense thing. Stop forcing women to I mean for slabor, Are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah, no, pregnancy, force labor. It's all.

You shouldn't want anything to be born to somebody that doesn't want it. You shouldn't want that. So that's women should have this option, and we will. We will continue to have this option. It's just going to be terrible when people have to travel to you know, better states or I.

Mean, there's an SVU episode I forgot what it's called where the girl like kept punching herself and doing all this stuff because she went to the fake abortion clinic that was tricking her.

I actually just watched that.

One this week, but maybe well we'll leave lovely Bones for next week.

Yeah, it's enough.

But I also went to aw Thanksgiving wrestling match in Chicago to watch my friend Cult Cabana, and it was incredible. I don't know, it's just like, I mean, he's been wrestling for over twenty years and probably since he was a kid, you know too, Like he's just loved it his whole life and This was the biggest match of his career, and to be able to be there was really special.

I love how you compare it to drag because I've never really been into wrestling, but I'm so into drag and I feel like, now that I know how similar they are, I really need to go, like see Russell. Oh yeah, I think I would like get the pageantry.

Yes, next time we're here.

Yeah, because I brought my friend Veronica is a big Drag Race fan, and she kept being like, oh my god, so much acting. Oh, there's pyrotechnics. There's a guy in full velvet and glitter. They're naked, they're oiled, they're sexy.

I mean some of these guys are very fucking hot, and you know, they're doing bat clips and they're good guys, bad guys, and they're like pretending to get her and they're not.

They are hurt, it's just in a different hurt way. But and you hear the slaps. I mean, it was just incredible. Ten thousand people in Chicago and it was just like, yeah, very exciting. I don't know, I wish I had more deets.

We had a big couple of weeks, you and me, we.

Did we did. It was funny yesterday. I was like, I'm so tired, and you were like, yeah, I believe.

I believe. Yeah. I was like, that's not weird.

You have been into two cities in five minutes each, like you know, like it's really like you live a hectic life.

Jet said yeah.

Oh, and I read the line where it's the Lord, the whatever, it's the Catholic Cross thing with the house.

Father's son and the Holy Ghost.

Oh, that was improvised by Lady Gaga in the House of Gucci. That was improvised, girl. You know, I don't know what line you're talking about. I fell asleep for so much of that movie.

But it's in the car. Yeah, the what is it? The God? Lord? What is the Why don't I know what? This is?

God's Son in the and the House of Gucci. She improvised it.

Oh, she says, Father's son in the House of Gucci.

You've never seen this, no, I girl, I went to Okay, everyone should know that we went to this movie together. I got too high and I fell asleep for large chunks of it, so I do not know what happens. I was trying to read recaps of it yesterday and I was like, I didn't even know that. I didn't even I don't remember Jared Leto being in the movie.

Well he was also in prosthetics, and I don't know if you heard, but he was like my friend was selling yesterday that he did an interview where he was like, my blood was olive oil, my heart was Marinera, and like went on this tirade about how he became Italian but only using like Italian snacks, Like I don't know it was. I really don't like him, and I have a fantasy I really want to meet him and pretend I don't know who he is because I think he would get really upset.

I think that's so funny.

Wasn't Jared Letto like on a silent retreat when COVID happened and he like came out and was like, what the fuck is going on?

That track? So hard for me.

But I will say also with House of Gucci, the accents took me out of it, but I.

Am gonna watch it again. Yeah, it's camp, it's drag. You know it's camp. Baby give us the Thanksgiving Tree.

Well, all the reviews are saying that even if you don't like it, Gaga is worth it, like she's great in it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean not everything has to be the best thing you've ever seen. That's another thing where it's like this sucks, this is amazing. Some things are just a great time, you know what I mean. Like, it doesn't have to be a fucking five star Oscar movie.

I don't care well, speaking of a great time, the rest of this episode is gonna fucking knock out.

Oh, it's a great episode.

I've got a great episode and a great guest, So don't go anywhere, all right.

So we're at season six, episode eighteen, a horrific classic. I would say one of the best twists.

I think I've maybe seen this one the most of any episode.

I've just seen it so many times.

Not me, I actually haven't seen it enough where Throughout the episode, I kept being like, like, even in my notes, I'm like, this happened.

Never mind, it's changed.

Like I kept being surprised by this episode. There's like so much fun.

There's a part where Martin Short uses a weird word and I knew.

Before he said it.

I was like, he's about to say this weird word, like I don't want to say in case you're making a Yeah, maybe, I hope you know where it is. I wonder I'm trying to like, do I remember if there was a weird word. I know exactly where it is.

I'll bring it up.

But yeah, this is kind of like Nardi Lee where it's like, this is the Martin short episode.

Do we need to call it pure? I don't know, right, Marty's here.

So it starts off with a blonde, long haired girl and she's wearing a lavender silk dress. Obviously reminds me of our Jessica mcclint talk Fever dream that we've created. Yeah, it's really in. Yeah, it was incredible how many people were connected by this woman. And I wish we got to tell her before she died. But anyways, Yeah, so you know, lavender silk. She's obviously going to a dance, and she has tears in her eyes and then we hear, oh, Chloe,

This is not good. Yeah, that's weird.

And also like your boyfriend's are gonna break up with you because you're not ready for a dance. She's very stressed out, but I guess that's like teenings or whatever.

Yeah, so her mother's having the dress, the date's gonna be there any second, and it is her first dance. And I do have pictures from my turnabout dance in high school where you could tell I was hysterically crying, like I, oh, are you confused about turnabouts? Like when the girls ask.

The boys, oh a Sadie Hawkins, Yeah, but we call it turnabout and so but I just went with a group of girls, but none of the outfits were working, and I was having mental breakdowns and I was just like, and all the photos are my friends looking normal? And then I have full red eyes and like, I understand this girl.

I was crying, Okay, yeah, yeah, I totally get.

I get the stress of like everything looks terrible, but she just seems.

So worried about her boyfriend. I was like, he doesn't matter that much, but yeah.

And then we went to Hula Hans I remember and the post that was too spicy, but I didn't want to send it back.

I had a rough turn about, a rough turn about.

And she also has lavender eye shadow, which is very Season six energy. What is that two thousand and seven? Like, uh, it's very that. So the phone rings and the girls like get it, get it, it's my date, and the mom's.

Like, chill out, bitch, like play it cool.

The machine will pick up, you know, play the game, and uh oh, the machine does pick up, but it's like a deep, deep, dark voice, and the voice on the machine goes, your daughter is such a hot piece of ass, best sex I ever had.

She's a screamer. Did you know? That made me crazy? So that's not good. That's not good.

And the mom is like, if you're a this is your friends, I'm gonna kill them. This isn't funny. And she's like maybe it's one of Kaylee's dumb friends. Go fuck yourself. And then it Dawn's on the mom like where is your sister? I haven't seen her in a while. So the mom calls Kaylee and it is not good. Basically it's Kaylee.

She's taped like, she has masking tape on her mouth, A gloved hand is holding her silver flip phone up, and so the mom can hear the daughter being tied up and taped and like you know, making noises and the phone and so obviously there's trouble.

And then the voice that we heard earlier goes, Kaylee can't come to the phone. She's tied up right now. I don't like when these killers are trying to do puns and little riddles.

I don't like that. So then that's the credits.

We enter the credits while Kaylee is thrashing and crying, so not good. So then we come back from the credits. We're at the precinct. It's a very casual dress day. Okay, it's probably the weekend or a friday, Like, I don't think they were planning on working, because I've never seen Craigan not in a suit coat ever, and he's just wearing like a dressed shirt with like the top buttons on button and Stabler's wearing a T shirt and a flannel.

We have to control the information.

And Trevor's like, there is no information, so that'll be easy, your fucking dead beats, and the mom's like, listen, she's been missing sixteen hours.

You haven't done anything.

I have to tell the public, and I'm on the Mom and Trevor's side here, like you guys have no information. I'm I'm going to the public like I'm on their side. I'm not on team Benson here.

How are Yeah?

I wonder why they're not tracking the cell phone. I mean, there's a lot of things that feels like they could be doing. I'd also like to mention that this is one of my favorite Olivia haircuts.

I love this. Are you kidding?

Yeah?

I really like it. You don't like it?

No, I actually avoided talking about it for so long Or is that the next Yeah, I avoided talking about it for so long. It's because at the end I go listen. I'm sorry to say I hate this haircut. She looks like Sean Cassidy, like a teen heart throb from the sixties.

It's crames her facing.

Maybe it's just because she's so pretty that in the season it's also had rassy highlights.

It's just like, I don't know if I knew this, David Calm Lisa, Yeah.

The first time, because I even like the pixie cut more than like. This is truly my least favorite Benson hairdoo. I think I think it's cute. I guess we'll have to put a pole up. Oh yeah, okay, let's do a pole. Let's do a pole. So the mom is talking about how Kayleie is such a good person and works hard here at the office to say for tuition, she wants to go to NYU and become a lawyer. I don't know what this has to do with anything. Does this make me like her more? She has a daye.

It's also like whenever they set it up too, like she's never even had a drink. It's like, bitch, your daughter's like nineteen, she's had a drink.

Like, I don't know.

It's like whenever the mom is talking about how good the kid is, and I'm not saying this kid did anything bad, but like we're going to find out something she did that's not like textbook good. You know.

Well, it also just like so if she drank, she it's not as sad.

It just doesn't make sense.

It's like the sentiment behind it also is confusing to me.

So there's a.

Bunch of press and they're asking questions, and you know, the press conference is underway, and Olivia is interrupted by the office manager who's a woman with pearl earrings, a dark red lip, and a side part low ponytail, and she's like, I need to talk to you, so they scurry off together.

If this actress was listening to this podcast, she'd be like, Wow, I never thought anyone would give me so much attention. I'm in this I'm in this episode for two seconds. And Lisa is like perfectly describing her.

I loved her.

I don't know, maybe it's because of all my reception in years. I just have some respect. And I realized the office manager is also from Sex and the City. Obviously I can't stop and she do you remember this episode? It was like when Carrie is obviously broke and then Charlotte goes to return her diamond ring and then the woman there is like she uses a bad word that would not be allowed on television.

Did she say we'll bleep it?

Oh?

She goes, Oh, I after I got a divorce, I turned my ring and to a bag it because my husband was a.

Get was the written written by a gay man? A thousand percuit yay. So if she looked familiar to you, she was the one at the jewelry store in the episode where we find out Carrie is so broke.

But they cut back to the press conference and you know, Trevor's like, listen, we'll give you ten grand if you have any information that brings this Kaylee, and the mom does the classic like we'll give you anything, anything, But it's like, what does he want? What does he want? You're se inkit like it's you got nothing. Your daughter has to work for tuition. You have nothing to offer

We're all working. Over time, there's going to be a.

Lot of leads, especially from the fruit Loop Brigade.

Okay, I like that is that merch?

I mean, is that what we call the listeners the fruit loop Brigade?

Do you guys want to be our fruit loops?

Even though it is an outdated reference to mental health, we just like it in general.

Let us know, we'll put up another pole.

Honestly, I just love the cereals so much that it didn't occur to me that it was like a slur.

I think that's what is so great about you.

You would. I was like, delicious, Take five fruit Loop Brigade, Yeah, take repate.

No, this one has this is a great episode.

So we're back with the office manager and with Live and she's like, listen. So we had to fire one of the bike message and it's like, we don't need this gossip, but I love the backstory. So basically they've had to fire a bike messenger because he was making stops at strip clubs. So they gave everyone cell phones with GPS, and Olivia is like, and you didn't.

Care to tell us before, you know? Now a warning? What the fuck?

And so she's like, no, no, the phone has been turned off, so we couldn't, you know, there was nothing we could do. But it just turned back on. So that's fucking exciting. So just a few minutes ago it turned on. Where is she? She's on Eighth Avenue and she is moving. So Ice is now in the car with Munch and they're like following the directions and then the GPS shows that it comes the phone comes to a dead stop and they're looking, Fuck, it's a garbage truck.

Sad.

So they do find the phone, but no Kayley. And we're back to another walk and talk with Craigan and Stabler at the precinct and they're thinking that phone was turned back on like in the truck on accident and missus Seller's actually got a call and that's really sad too to think about. And so she just heard like the garbage truck for twenty minutes moving around and yeah, so that's weird.

Yeah, she was probably not thrilled.

No, And also like if she was in there, then the girl has been compressed.

I mean I always think about that now when I see garbage trucks, Like when I see a garbage truck like doing its compression, I'm like, oh my god, I think about like I like, this show has made me think about that, like if there's a body in there.

It's not alive anymore.

Like I've thought of that before because of this fucking episode.

Yeah, garbage compression.

There's a lot of garbage truck stuff in U S for you though, Yeah, a lot of Yeah, truck. I mean, if you're gonna get rid of a body, put it in the garbage.

Yeah, that's uh rule one oh one. Okay.

So then while they're in the precinct and they're talking and they're trying to discuss that's what's happening.

Suddenly you're like, wait, is this a dream? Is this real?

Is that Martin Short floating into the scene. You're like, I don't know if I'm alive or dead? Did I go to heaven? But Martin Short walks into the precincts and I it's pretty exciting.

When you think of when you think of Martin Short, what's like the thing you.

Think of first?

I think of like Jiminy Glick, even though I didn't even watch it that much. I think of Clifford because I would always see it at the library and Blockbuster, like that cover of Clifford.

But what I personally love.

Him from is a movie no one has seen where him and Nick Nolty have to kidnap his daughter, Martin Short's daughter from an orphanage and they go out on the run and they might be robbing banks, and like, Martin Short's wearing a wig and it flies out of the car and he has to wear way. Do you know what it's called a lopside? Hannah's clicking, Hannah's clicking.

Three Fugitives, Yes, I've seen this movie.

So Three Fugitives was huge in my house and we watched it all the time and loved it. So that's the movie. I think I've watched the most. And did he host Oscars? I don't know what I've seen, Three Amigos. I mean I am, yeah, I'm cultured. What about you? No for me, I go right to Clifford. I love Jimmy Glick.

I also love Frank obviously, father of the Bride. Yes, I just like have loved him so much like my whole life. I just think he's so so funny, and I just a treasure arm movement. Yeah, like I just think of a lot of arm movies and I just watched Only Murders in the Building and he's like still so good, Like he's so good.

You're just like charmed by him, Like he's just great.

Yeah, we might have to tell the listeners now we did not get Martin Schultz. Yeah if that's yeah, we tried, we tried, We tried hard, but Marty's busy just in case you're listening being like they got him, No we didn't.

We got someone else. Amazing, great, perfect, But you.

Aren't gonna love who we got. You are obsessed with who we got. Many of you have pat choose of who we got. But yeah, you're gonna be into who's the guest.

But so he said he has seen the girl from the press conference. So Craigan and Stable are eyes, you know, open wide. They're excited, and so he starts giving details of a man holding her and everyone is like, okay, what's happening. And then he goes and then they're like, so, where'd you see him? Where'd you see him? And he says I had a vision, and of course they're pissed.

Yeah, and you know.

Stabler like closes his little notebook and Martin Shrek goes listen, Okay, I know what you're thinking, and Maloney out missing a Beat's like right, because you're a psychic. Yeah, And now I'm wondering how many psychics come and harassed cops all the time, and maybe they're doing the Lord's work of just like a cabbing for us, just.

Annoying, annoying them.

So then Martin Shore, I just I like that it's not funny, but because it's him, maybe it's funny or do they write it extra fire like. I don't know, but this episode does have so many gems and Martin Short goes, oh, you think I'm mentally ill? And Craigane goes, wow, he's good.

I like that.

So it is just like a really funny episode. So he's like, listen, I've helped other police stations find people.

You know.

I'm Sebastian Ballantine.

I love this part.

So then Maloney goes, whoa the Sebastian Ballentine And he goes, wait, you've heard of me? And Maloney goes, no, it's one of my favorites. It's so cruel, but it's so funny. It is, but also the name is annoying. Spelling it throughout this whole recap was hard for me saying it over and over in my head planning on how this episode's gonna go. Sebastian Vallentine is a mouthful. Who do you think of when you think of Sebastian.

The crab from Little Mermaid? Yeah, am my cousin. I have a cousin named Sebastian.

Yeah, I think crab, and then I think cruel intentions. Those are my two Sebastian and I guess Sebastian Bach but yeah, and of course Sebastian Roche one of our sexiest and most capable guests.

Yes, one of the early friends of the pod.

Yeah, I mean he's cooking, he's building, he's on a ship, you know. Yeah, yeah, I bet he's fucking his wife.

Good.

Okay, So those are the Sebastians in our lives. And then it's Valentine. Not Valentine. It's just like it's just too.

Much for me. I hate it so much. Okay.

So Craigan is like, please escort this man out of here, thank you so much, and Sebastian's like, well, at least take my card. And another bit, Craigan goes, what is it? Three ninety five a minute? They're giving it to him? But did Martin help write that? Like how did they know who wrote this episode?

That?

They are just so many bits, It's like it's truly incredible. Up top, So we got to go to Taru and our girl, our good friend friend of the Joel de la Fuente Morton Grove resident not anymore but from Native He's doing some computer phone tracking stuff, and so at seven twenty five in the morning, there's a photo of Kaylee on the phone that they like were able to get out, and it's her like taped up and strapped up, so at least we know that she was alive that morning, so that's good.

And then there's some older photos of her with a.

Guy and it's like it looks like they're in a library and it's just like a guy her age and they're hanging out. And then the next one he's trying to like make a move and she's grossed out.

But it could be just a joke.

They like get they read so much into this photo, like if that was just like teens hanging out, I'd be like okay, but they were like he did it, you know. They fell to a lot of conclusions from this picture. So finally Benson and Stabler they're talking with Chloe, who is the little sister of Kaylee, and they're talking about the man and it's her old boyfriend from high school and she hated him so much. And they hear

They do not like that.

So he, you know, he goes to his old school rough and tumble ways with like the psychic and he's like, oh, fuck yourself, and he's like, don't fuck with someone so vulnerable. It's so rude, And I just I do love when Maloney is passionate. I know I'm a flip flopper on him, but he does care. He does care.

And he's like, I keep seeing.

A serial port and a computer cord. Does that mean anything to you? And Stabler's like maybe he met her over the internet. He's like hey, and then he says, actually no, we went through her tech and there isn't anything, so stop fucking doing this, Like not making any sense, and then he says, listen, there's also I see her underflowing water, but she's not wet.

I know it doesn't make sense, but I see it. I see it. So we're annoyed. Do you believe him?

Do you not?

Stabler's pissed. What does this mean? Flowing water but she's dry? What are the cable cords? What is what is hiding in the Internet that they're not able to find? Will we find Kaylee alive? So the psychic now is trying to like anger manage, judge him and stuff, and he's like, go home and don't come back here. And Martin Short's like, I understand your skepticism. I understand, but I'm just trying

Into the night.

Stablers yeah, yeah, yeah, He's like, yeah, your wife and kids are worried about you or something, right.

Yeah, and scurris. Scurris is my word of the episode. I think. Yeah.

So we know Stabler's pissed, he doesn't like one his family is brought up and so he's he's off into the night. So you know when they do the orthodox juice separation, So he was with Valentine, Benson's with the mom, and the Mom's like, listen, he hasn't even taken a cent from me.

This is not a grifter. He wants no money.

And Benson's like, listen, I get where you're coming from, and you're desperate, but there are people that are unscrupulous and they're not trustworthy, and these psychics like flock to high profile cases for attention and then it gives them notoriety and then they can turn it into a business. So this is like, you know, they're working for exposure here. That's the classic classic and I never even thought about.

It that way. So I do like that Benson is bringing a new perspective to me. And it's like, listen, you need to be careful. It is about the money at the end of the day. And she's like yeah, but he says he has a fishion.

So the mom is saying reasons why she believes him, and Benson's telling her why it's bullshit, and the mom is mad that they ran him off and it is her only hope to like connect with her daughter, and I mean, I know that they don't trust him, but it is the mom's decision to work with any fruit loop she wants. Okay, so did you like that I used it in a sentence? My fruit loops gotta not be offensive, right, it's just too fun. I'm bringing it back,

I doubt it.

This dance is kind of weird. My sister's being kidnapped. Is kidnapped right now.

So Chloe quickly goes because she wouldn't put out, and everyone's a little shocked, and the mom and Benson lean in and it's like, what how do you know that? And Chloe's like, I read her diary, but she tore it up after she found out I read it, so we don't have any more diary stuff. But thank god Chloe read it, and basically Jake wanted a fuck. Kaylee was not ready, so Jake dumped her ass, which is good that she didn't like stay with him because he was just using her for sex.

So good decision making, Kaylee.

And then the mom reveals that Sebastian did ask her if the letter JA meant anything. Oho, so I wonder, you know what the spirits let him know about the letter j. So now we're back at the office with Ice and Stabler and they're figuring this Jake shit out and Jake's in college in Boston and they're trying to confirm, like was he there, did he come home this weekend?

What's going on? So then the psychic comes back.

Martin Short is back, and Stabler's like, what the fuck?

I told you to stay out of it.

And he's like, I know, but I'm meant to be, Like something is telling me I have to be here, and Martin Short then has a wild request to touch some evidence to do a reading, and of course Benson says no, and I see a stunt coming, so I'm like, what is the stunt?

What is happening? And like what's But.

Then Stabler kind of surprises me and it's like, you know what, give him a room. Stabler's like, keep him in there, and let's leave him. Like, let's leave him in there. So he leaves the mother alone and all of us alone. Just dump him in a room. But the precinct is really wild right now and it's bustling because they're getting like hundreds of calls and tips.

In the room is full.

Of people with with scoop, and so it's just a little commotion. And who do we see in all the commotion are good friend's sister Peg.

Hello.

And it's never good news when she's at the precinct, I'll tell you that much. If she's made if she's made a trip, it's not good. And she's with a blonde woman, and the blonde woman has some scoop. So sister Peg is like, listen, I was doing my condom run and warning all the work and girls that there is a man snatching women off the street. And the blonde he's like, I think I saw this guy. And

He's like, oh, are you this or are you that?

Or he also asked the girl, oh, you're a prostitute, Like he's so fascinated by them. It's like, yeah, yeah, it's just it's a little tell, but I don't know of what. But it is like great subtle acting and directing if I've ever seen it. So Ice walks in and has some info and Jake nailing a girl and coming home from Boston and crashing at his friend Michael's house.

So off to Michael's house we go. It's aloft. That's cool.

So basically, Mike.

Is out of town, but a shirtless Jake opens the door and there's a girl in a men's shirt, which I think is a sexy look that is never overplayed in movies, like you can always put a girl in a dress shirt and I'll like it. So the girl is spraying shit into the air, so I'm assuming they were smoking somepot. Bad teens, Bad teens, And Jake's like, why are you here asking about Kaylee?

What?

And they're like, she was abducted and raped, and he says she was asking for it, so bring him in what you like, even if why are you?

Oh god, he probably thought the cops would high five him and be like I know, right.

So he says how she was always wanting her first time to be special and she made him wait a year and no prize, and then they're like, well, we showed, and then they show him the photo of him like from earlier where he was like trying to get some and she was pushing him away and Stabler's like, yeah, and you never stopped trying and you're a fucking abuser. What are you doing And he goes no, no, no, no, no,

What is it?

It's a stupid Yeah, it's like a way of spelling connoisseur. That's not connoisseur. It's like, there's no game. It's it's someone trying to be clever and it's not really working.

Okay, So they go to this connoisseur freaks apartment and his name is Harlan Beaumont, and it's like, obviously, I love the writer of this episode for all the jokes and funniness, and then with these names, I'm like, you're an enemy of the people.

But I actually did know a Harlan. I knew a Harlan.

He was like a pretty Jewish boy in my high school and he was the star of the musical and he got sick right before the debut and he had to sit like sing sick.

Once upon an Island. He didn't have an understudy. He wanted to do it, honey, he wanted to do it.

So he's sang poorly and it was like dedicated to his craft. Yeah, and he was one of those who knew he was cute, and you don't want to know that in high school you become a bad well I mean maybe Harlan's succeeding.

Who knows, who knows where he was at, Lisa, do you want? He said? It was once upon an island where you can find once upon a mattress and once on this island if you want to read, if you want to.

Know you usually it was is funny which one once on this It was once on this island?

Oh no, yeah, which, by the way, my summer camp did that too. And I don't really think all white organizations should be doing not play. No, my high school did it too fully a white cast.

I mean we also did The King and I I mean we Yeah, it was a different time it was, but we did have so many Pacific Islanders on my high school.

But not in the theater department.

I wonder, because you can't also like then go into the school and be like we need all Asians to audit them for this play. That seems fucked up to Oh no, you know what Clara was in at Clara Wong. What's up girl, She's a very successful actress. She's working, she's modeling. She was in she was in Billions, she played like a dominatrix. She's working Clara Okay, Scochy something else.

Success.

Yeah. So anyways, back to Harlan. We're back to the connoisseur, this little freak and me and this freak have a lot in common. Unfortunately, he is a collector of things that are.

Worthless, and so am I so many lava lamps, like so many lava lamps.

And like clocks shaped his apples and pineapples and a cactus lamp at some racist statues.

I don't have those. A lot of globes, old phones.

So but then while they're there and they're bullying this dork, they do get a call that they found Kayley's body and her body is found in Hell's kitchen. So Stabler runs to the scene and he's in a denim jacket with lamb fur on the inside, and it is one of my least favorite, least favorite looks, just items of c thing like if I see someone with the lambskind and it's for I don't like it.

Nope.

So she is dead and there's a weird blanket on top of her strangulation marks. She's only been dead a couple of hours. And then above her is pipes with running water and she is dry. So Sebastian the psychic was correct, fuck because that is like a wild riddle. And so to have the flowing water on top of her while she's dry, it's like, I.

Think this is one of the cugest moments in SVU history.

I would say, yeah, it's very classic because you're like, oh my god, he's a real fucking psychic. Is SVU showcasing a real psychic in a blot line?

Like what's going on? So then the Dunim boy runs to the precinct. Dunim boy is Stabler, So he runs in and he goes, give me the freak. Where's the freak? I need to find the freak And they can't find him. But he was there all night for eight hours in the interview room. But they can't find him. Right now, everything's going off the rails, like is it his fault? Did he know? Did Stabler let the girl die? Like should she have listened to the psychic? Is the psychic

You talking shit about them.

But Stabler goes up to the stairs like a little Romeo and is like, oh wait, so you were here all night and you never left the building. And he's like, well, you told me to wait for you. But then he knows he's the killer. But how did he do it? Is Stabler wrong? What is Holp going on? And he's just like, you knew about the computer, you knew about the flowing water.

How did you know? How did you know? You know?

Like, and Valentine goes, it's a gift and then Stabler starts to like rough him around and he goes or a curse again. It's like vaudeville. It's so fucking good.

Yeah, So then they play the cassette tape voicemail for him and it does sound like Martin Short, Like I do have to say, like obviously there's games or recording devices being played, but it does sound like Martin Short. And Stabler's like, we have a tech crew and they're scrubbing and filtering it and we'll figure it out and Sebastian's like, yeah, put a rush on it, give me a lie detector. I don't care, bro, I am here to help. So Maloney's like, okay, psychic boy, what am

Being like, how did he do it? How did he know four kids through pregnancies? What the fuck?

And I'd like to say that she is wearing purple Okay. So anyways, Huang is like, this is just a manipulation in games. Psychics like have been doing these games for thousands of years. They know reactions and different ways the way you move, like it's just all games. And so then they devise a plan that's that Benson's gonna go in there and give all the wrong clues and raise them eyebrows at the wrong time and try to fuck

Yeah, this isn't her best work.

No, because I'm also thinking about her being like the sex worker in the Animal the Wildlife episode where she's like hello, Daddy, Like that wasn't good either, Like Benson is not good.

I mean she as good as persephony, but yeah, she.

I don't think she's that good of an actress. Olivia Benson, Yeah, Marishka Yes. So Ice comes in and they've found nothing on the Prince in the system and Wong starts talking about a cd ROM and I just love that.

So basically there's like a.

Cd ROM that the FBI uses to like figure lying shit out.

I don't care. So maybe he has anyone can use it.

There's like basically there is and I think I've read about this before. There are ways that psychics can like observe like tiny minuscule like facial ticks that you do that give away things that you're gonna say, and that's how a lot of psychics actually get work is by using that. And he's like, it's also available on Ceede

Okay, so we're cutting to the connoisseur collector guy and he is in the precinct.

Upset.

He goes, I want to written apology, and it's like, get in line, bro, they're like choking men to death on the streets that white.

He's like, so mad. I was just bidding on a virginity.

Yeah, you're not totally innocent, you fucking creep.

Yeah, but if someone's doing it on per I don't know.

I yeah, just wanting its weird, Okay, Yeah, okay, I like that.

I was about to defend virginity bidding about. My whole senior thesis in college was about how the concept of virginity is false and I'm like that makes sense.

Okay.

Anyways, so he runs away, but her the little uh collector guy. And as he's running away, we have a blonde woman with a baby runs in and she's asking much for some help and she's looking for her husband. Her husband said he would be here, but they waiting and the husband's not back yet, and they're like, okay, who's your husband and she goes it's Sebastian. So basically this is Sebastian's wife and baby. Are you kidding me?

Like we haven't.

I haven't convinced Stabler, we haven't solved the crime. I can stay, And Craigan's like, your wife and baby are waiting for you.

Face crack. This is the first little face crack we see.

Sadness, confusion. He is not happy that they are here. He's pretty pissed. He does not like his wife. So the wife comes in and calls him Pooky and pooky to me, it's like, is that even a real name?

Like, I don't know. I Pooky's funny to me. Jared does call me pook. That's his nickname for me.

I was about to say, is that a real nickname? Or is that something that sitcoms came up with? And you're approving, Well.

He used to call me that, I think as a joke and then he cut it to pook and that's like what it is now?

Wow?

Wow, the more you know. Anyways, the mom she's she's like, we missed you. We're worried. He's like, I told you where i'd be. She's like, but we love you. But she has alibis for him. YadA YadA. There's a back and forth some marriage issues. So he's like, I promised Kaylee's mom that I would find the killer and I need to deliver. And Craigan says, we got people on it, please leave, and Martin Schwort's like, I just I feel like he's gonna do it again. And the wife's like, okay,

He knows that she is at Saint Anne's and Stabler's like, but he was with us all night.

So it is a true mystery right now.

And the connection between Kaylee and Sister Peg is they're virgins. They're virgins on paper because I think you could become a nun and like not be a virgin yea later in life. But the assumption is, fuck, this guy loves virgins. The nun and the teens selling her virginity are both virgins.

Uh oh uh uh oh.

So cut to Ice in the squad knocking down the doors and scaring old lady neighbors, like looking for Sebastian at the apartment, and you know, Benson and Novak are arguing about warrants. Obvious the tale is oldest time about this warrant thing, and Benson keeps going, but it's sister Peg, like we have to help her, and Novak's like, no, judge's gotta do this.

Yeah, break and the rules.

So then Novak's also like, hello, he was also in the precinct all night, and Benson goes, yeah, he must.

Have been working with a partner.

Like what don't you understand I'm a detective, I know what's up. So Benson gets a call that ballentine'es have just been seen at a car wash hosing out the back of their van. So finally we get to bring these fuckers into interrogation.

What call is that?

By the way, were they being tailed or did somebody just say, hey, I saw a weird couple hosing out their van.

I don't really.

I bet they had someone fine them. I bet they had a detail espec Yeah, because if they're already ransacking the apartment, they might have found them. And like what the license plate? And you know, Stabler goes, You've gone after someone I know personally, big mistake, huge, and he goes, of course, logical how could I have gone after her? I've been here the whole night, and it's like, we know who your partner is, and they're gonna make a deal, and he goes, I'm a one man show.

And Benson is with the wife.

You know, it's the gender breakdown, interrogation rules, and she's saying, listen, the baby puked and Sebastian hates the smell. And she's just going on and on about how their best friends and business partners and they love each other. And Craigan's like, okay, well she's dumb and he's smart. That's his diagnosis in all of this. They're like, he thinks he's a genius and she's the dumbest person I've ever met my life. So no, okay, this is one of my favorites. Again,

So we're back in the apartment. We're searching the computers.

We're pulling up records and basically he uses not Google but link it, which is an advanced Google that you pay for and it shows public records, and we see that in his search history he was looking up Elliott Stabler and Olivia Benson. So any ideas that we had that like maybe he is a psychic, he's not.

He was just like he.

Might not even be using that facial thing. He just knew a bunch of shit about them, Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the pro but the program LinkedIn is not registered under Sebastian's using LinkedIn.

It's called Lincoln was something like that. I think it's supposed to be like Lexus Nexus or something.

But yeah, so then we find out it's actually registered under a guy named Henry Palivar from Canada. So Henry, they find out served in time in Montreal for abduction and sexual assault of a minor, but there was no murder. He let the fourteen year old girl go and the girl remembered his plates and that's how he got caught. So maybe that's why this Henry person might be murdering. Basically, done Dune Done. Henry and Valentine are the same person. Yeah,

But I don't know.

So basically, you guys get it. Martin short is Henry and Sebastian. So the wife and him took on new identities and Benson's like, I'm gonna get her ass. So she kind of negs her and is just like, okay, so he only got out of prison eight years ago, you've been married for ten years.

What's up, you fucking weirdo?

And she's like, listen, he's the most smartest, sweetest, most charming man I've ever met. And they met through a Penn Power program with inmates, because she says, can you imagine anyone more in need of a friend. They're completely cut off and lonely, and it's like, I don't know. New mothers are lonely too, write them letters like yeah, I just.

Want to know what happened in this woman's childhood. I'll tell you that much.

So so she thinks like she could change him. Benson's like, you really think you can change him? She goes, yes, she goes, but you did it and he's like a bad person and he actually made you bad instead of you making him good. And she goes, that's a mean thing to say. So she's like, you know he's abducting and raping virgins and you're helping him. So what the fuck? We found map quest directions in your car? Oh shout out to map Quests. I love this episode of television.

They also did find blood in the van and they're gonna test it, and Carlena it's like, babe, it's over, Okay, it's fucking over, and she's like, I want to talk to Henry and Benson's like, why why would you do this? And she goes, well, I was scared he would leave me if I didn't, so I thought if I proved him how much you know, I loved him. I would do all this that he would stop. And Benson's like, but what the fuck, Like how many girls are there?

So who are these girls?

And she says usually hitchhikers in Canada and Benson's like, well, Kaylee was killed while Sebastian was in here, so you you did that, and she nods, yes, she had to do it. I couldn't let him go back to jail. It was my fault. And then behind the spy mirrors we have Stabler and Henry Akamorton short aka Sebastian Valentine aka Psychic Boy, and they don't do that often, so

Like this whole thing.

He's like, I'm just here to help, and like you see the soul leave his eyes, you see him become like a fully evil person in just one quick look of a face like that is a skilled performer. How you can just change everything about your character in one look like I just chilling. So basically he martin short.

Say, shut the fuck.

Up, I mean it's close, and then they went and had some consomme after Okay, So he's like, I could tell she was used goods like that, that wasn't a face of a virgin.

And Stabler's like, so, what's with the virgin thing? And it basically it's uh, you know, Stabler makes fun of him, was like, what you like, you can't deal with competition, like you know, you can't have someone that's fucked someone before. He goes, no, I'm pretty adequate in bed. I just like the expression on a girl's face for the first time, and Stabler's like, no, that's not sex.

That's rape.

You're saying rape face, not first time vibe face. And he's just really into shock and confusion, panic, fear, soft pain.

So this is a true Sickoh he loves faces.

Yeah, and this is the part I'm talking about, Like there's a part where he goes and just a soup song of pain. I always I knew he was about to say that before he said it, because I always just remember that line from this. He's so creepy and he's like, and just a soup song of pain? And is that a little Montreal nod? Like is that French to be? Like, maybe song is French, but maybe it is a nod to his Montreal roots.

Mateo Lane has a funny joke he goes Montreal, people think they're, you know, French, and it's like you're you're in Cleveland and you speak French.

I always think it's funny. So he loves all these faces.

And then Stabler asked the big question where it's like why'd you even walk into the precinct, Like you could have gotten away with all of this, Like why'd you do it? And basically he's just like really into faces. He likes to see what he's set in motion and likes to see all the cops facial expressions that gets him off. So he just loves seeing reactions. I bet if you go onto his porn search history, he's looking for close ups. Okay, So anyways, he's.

Like, yeah, you guys are all a bee hive and I just poked you with a stick.

But also I like to help, so creepy.

Back to benson twisted love affair, how did you even find Sister Peg? Like, what is happening? You better start talking, bitch. So anyways, we do find sister Peg. She's in a shipping container that's chained and locked up. She's inside gash on the side of her head, but there is a pulse. She's tied and taped. But I'm so glad here to help her. But Sister Peg such a selfless woman, and she's like, the baby.

You have to help the baby. The baby.

There's a baby in the van and they're like, no, that's his baby, and Sister PEG's like no, no, no, no, no, no.

The baby is not good.

That Sister Peg overheard like this wife, this blonde woman, kept yelling at the baby that it's the baby's fault that the dad.

Needs to keep funing and raping virgins. So it must have been a bad baby, and she picked a bad baby. So now it's like, wait, another fucking twist. There's only three minutes left of this episode. What the fuck is going on? So now we find out that they picked a baby. This is not her baby. So in the office, they figure it out that someone cut the fetus out of an eight and a half month pregnant woman and they can't find anyone that ever saw this blonde woman pregnant.

Yeah.

And then since he knew that she wasn't a virgin, he couldn't touch her, so he would never fuck her. So then they find out that they've been married for ten years and they've never had sex, and this it's a confused face and stabler like I've never seen he is so passed by this information. She's like, you haven't fucked your husband in a decade. So they hang on cuff this bitch. They're taking her to jail and she's

He screams you stupid dizzy cow.

And she's like, I love you, and he's like, are you happy now? And the thing is, I'm on Martin's short side here. I would be pissed if she talked, you know what I mean, Like, I would be pissed.

And I want a prequel. I want to know what happened to these people as children.

Well, you're about to get one, so i'd be careful what you wish for.

Oh god, I forgot about the format of our podcast. Okay, So then he calls her a dirty whore and she's like, come on, bro, don't say that.

And she starts.

Crying and she's like, but you promised, you promise, and he goes, I lied love that. Stabler and Sebastian a final life moment, and Martin Short goes into the voice that we heard in the first like voicemail recording and goes best sex I ever had, and oh god, he's so good, and Stabler says, we're not going to extradite you to Canada. We're going to keep you right here, motherfucker. And he likes that. He goes, oh, I really had

No, And when you go back and watch it again and you hear that recording at the beginning, you're like, it's very clearly Martin Short like it is, like, but if you don't know that.

It is kind of enough different, you know.

And if any of you listening are friends with Martin Short, tell him what the fuck?

Yeah, Martin, what are you so busy doing? Martin?

You can't get on a zoom? All right, Kara, I guess let me know what's up.

Buckle your seat belt, baby, Okay, So let's dive into the true crime. Obviously this episode. If you are a fan of true crimeer you've just listened to our podcast does bear resemblance to the canon Barbie Killers, Carla Hamolka and Paul Bernardo, the couple luring girls in the guy

And what's wild is that they snuck in this heinous, giant crime in the last few minutes minutes.

Like it is so wild.

So the person who committed this crime was named Lisa Marie Montgomery. She was thirty six at the time. So Bobby Joe and her husband zeb were childhood sweethearts and they ran a dog breeding business in Missouri, and Bobby Joe and Lisa actually met in person at a dog show in Abilene in two thousand and four earlier that year, and then they ended up talking online in a chat room about rat terriers called ratter Chatter. So very passionate

But according to an.

Affidavit, she had her murderer's quote blonde hair clenched in her hands, so she struggled, she fought, Paramedics tried to

And Lisa was tried and.

Found guilty in two thousand and seven, so you would kind of think, oh, this ends there. I obviously want to say that I feel horrible for the family of Bobby Joe. This is a horrific crime that was perpetrated against her. Should never have happened. She should be alive raising her child right now. But that said, just as we did with Aileen Warnos, we have to take a look at the cycle of violence that perpetuates crimes like these. So I just want to talk a little bit about

No one helped this girl ever.

Well, it's also I think about the people where it's like people become cops to help people.

It's like not this sheriff.

Yeah, he had an opportunity to fully help someone in his own family. Like so, so if it's not to help people, what motivates police officers and sheriffs, you know, And it's like, have.

An honest look in that you're a cousin. Just say come live with us.

It doesn't even have to be like if you're too scared to press charges about what it'll do to the family, you live in a small town, whatever the fuck, just say, come live with us. Take the kid out of the just dropped her back off at this hell hole where she was being like abused habitually for years. Lisa herself

And also how the world works.

So when the mother this is wild too, like more and more just like disappointment from systems that are supposed to help children and do not. When her mother eventually split from this second husband who was the one molesting Lisa, she and Lisa both testified it in the divorce proceedings about the sexual assaults, and the judge in the case like scolded the mom for not reporting the child abuse,

Because I bet people, well I can't, I can't say, I don't know, but I bet people were maybe nicer to her when she was pregnant.

Sure, that's a possibility too, But I mean, she had four kids in five years at the age from eighteen to twenty two.

Like, that's a rough fucking go of it.

There's a couple of theories as to why she did what she did to Bobby Joe. Some people think she took the baby because she had had a miscarriage that she hid from her family. I don't know how this makes any sense, because if her tubes were tied, I don't think it's very possible to get pregnant.

But another theory.

That is widely discussed is that her ex husband had planned to revealed she was lying about the pregnancies in order to get custody of the existing children she had with him, and she's like, I need a baby, like I need to prove that I really am pregnant or this guy's going to take my kids. So at a pre trial hearing, a neuropsychologist testify that head injuries, which Lisa had sustained years earlier, could have damaged the part

It was from taboo, taboo, taboo.

So two doctors, one named William Logan, which is my father in law's name, testified as experts that Montgomery did have pseudocisis in addition to depression borderline personality disorder MPTSD. Another doctor named doctor villaianor Rama Chandron, testified that Montgomery's stories about her actions were inconsistent because she was so delusional, like she was basically unable to really explain her acts or like why she had done anything, or she just

They were like, this is bullshit.

She They were like, she went and got she researched how to do a sea section, she bought a pregnancy and at home pregnancy kit, like blah blah blah. But then a lot of people argued, like, to be going through a psychosis or like an event like this, you can still be planning.

You can still plan things.

Like just because she premeditated something doesn't mean she was in her right mind. So on October twenty second, two thousand and seven, the jurors found Montgomery guilty, rejecting the defense claims about her delusions, and on the twenty six, four days later, the jury recommended the death sentence.

That's where it's fucked.

I mean, were they able to bring up her past abuse my next sentence in the pseudocyesist defense, Montgomery's past trauma and separate diagnosis of mental illness were never fully revealed until after her conviction. So it's like, how like didn't we talk about this with Aileen Mornos, Like none of this was introduced a trial.

Her horrible way that she was brought up because.

The crime is horrific, Like if you're a person on the jury, I understand where they're coming from.

She should be found guilty and be in jail. But the death sense, I just were, well not dense penalty.

Girls, Yeah, exactly, and like you know, I'll explain more later. But a lot of people argued that Duchard did not give her a competent legal defense because he did not introduce any of her past trauma or any of the stuff.

And he rejected all that and was like I did. Great.

Experts who examined her after her conviction concluded that by the time of her crime, she had long been living with psychosis, bipolar disorder, and PTSD. She was said to have often disassociated from reality and had permanent brain damage from numerous beatings at the hands of her parents and spouses.

Horrible.

Yeah, I mean she was beaten her whole life. Can you imagine just being strapped and having electricians come piss on you.

I mean it's like the most fucked up thing. It's so horrific.

And so basically there's a case called Atkins versus Virginia that ruled that executing individuals with intellectual disabilities is a violation of the eighth Amendment of the Constitution regarding cruel and Unusual punishment. So a lot of people expected that Monk would be ineligible for the death sentence here. But she exhausted like every appeal, and you know, there was like a day she was she was supposed to get executed, and then her attorneys actually got COVID nineteen. She was

They were really really.

Trying to get Trump or a governor or someone to overturn it because this was federal So what if I think had to be Trump to this wasn't her state executing her.

They executed so many people in that last month. Yeah, it's like so fucked up.

It's just weird to think about all of these little pieces where it's if it was a different administration, she would be alive, right, one little thing, if one ja she gave her a protective order, a got rid of the step dad, or one teacher fucking followed up on signs of abuse.

I mean, just so many people facing it's really.

Really heartbreaking too, because there's a lot of photos of her as like a child, and she's just such a sweet little girl who just was failed at every turn by everyone in her life and everyone in her community. So essentially her lawyer, you know, she had multiple multiple appeals and then eventually she had a stay of execution that was vacated by the Supreme Court with a six to three vote and the execution was ordered to be carried out. Her half sister came to her defense and

But I think she just why did she get to leave and the other one didn't.

I don't really know.

I don't really know. I think it might have been like who, I don't know, somehow someone reported that she was being abused, Like yeah, exactly, like another fail. You think one girl's being abused in this house and the other one isn't, Like, how is she not also being removed from the home. So the sister Diane said, quote, I would say, President Trump, I want you to look at the life that Lisa had led. I want to

Not excusing the crime.

I think this person should have been found guilty and just been in jail and.

Been in jail or a mental facility or something, you know. So she was killed by lethal injection in Tara Hate, Indiana on January twelfth, and I'm sorry on January thirteenth because it was one thirty in the morning and when they asked her if she had any last words, she just said no. And she was the first female federal prisoner executed in sixty seven years.

So that's another thing.

It's like in the Diane Weste episode that we talked about Chameleon, it's like you're gonna make a rape victim the person that stands up. That is the example for women being having equal rights to men and being executed like this is not a mastermind woman who you know, executed a horrific crime in her right mind, you know.

So.

Uh.

She was the first female federal in sixty seven years to be executed by the US federal government and the fourth overall. Only three women have been executed by the US federal government in the last like over one hundred years. Mary Sarat by hanging in eighteen sixty five, Ethel Rosenberg for treason by electric chair in nineteen fifty three, and then a woman named Bonnie Hetty by gas chamber also in nineteen fifty three.

I don't like that.

It's this weird bingo of everyone being killed a different way too.

That's like, yeah, pretty sid, that's weird. Yeah.

And it was just talking about how like Lisa Montgomery, Corey Johnson, and somebody named Dustin Higgs. They were all three people executed under Donald Trump in his lame duck period, like after he had been you know, like six days after this motherfucker tried to overthrow the government, he kills this woman like it shouldn't have even been allowed I'm sorry, Like it's so it's it's really horrific to me. And that's the end of the story. So if you want

We talk about this a lot in terms of like our country or humanity in general, is so focused on like the punishment or after or like the symptoms, but never the cause of like what is happening with you know, like that like you always talk about death penalty does not deter crime. Yeah, these things don't deter crimes, so like what will? And we are unable to do that for the people in our worlds? Like yeah, because even

Shoot people to death like it is.

It's like, we're not excusing any murderers and I hate them all, but we gotta find a way to help abuse children.

Yeah, that might decrease the amount of killing.

Maybe maybe feed kids, take them out of homes that are bad.

I don't know.

It's so funned up, but thank you for taking us through ye this case, and you know it's our one year and we have a spectacular guest.

Can't wait. I can't wait.

You guys are gonna love it. Okay, guys, Our guest today is someone who's work I think a lot of you are extremely familiar with. She is a podcast Maven, the co host of Do You Need to Ride? And a little podcast you might have heard of called My Favorite Murder. She's also the co founder of the Exactly Right Network, which is our network.

And you might not know this about her, she is an SVU super fan.

So we were so excited to bring our patron saint and fellow SVU fan to our podcast for an interview Karen Kilgarriff first of all.

Or shall we say happy first anniversary? Oh? Well, thank you so much.

Can you believe it's been a year? I cannot believe that.

I cannot believe it's been a year.

And the episodes keep on coming. That's the thing that I like to say. Sometimes I will be watching an SVU for quote unquote work on the laptop and in the hotel, have SVU on USA for pleasure, and it is it has gone by fast.

I don't know.

I can't believe it. I can't either, And I can't believe the celebs we've gotten to talk. I think that was the most surprising, Like why cleft just singing to us?

Oh geez, what the fuck's so true? Well, I remember listening to the pilot you guys made. I remember where I was in the car and literally four minutes went by and I was like.

We have to get this pocket.

We have to do this podcast like it was just you guys were doing it so well, and whichever one you did for your first for the pilot episode, it was that thing where it wasn't like I just watched it, but the second you guys started, I was like, the reason this is gonna work is because everyone has this kind of almost like you know, collective consciousness knowledge of this TV show where even if you don't remember beat by beat the exact episode you guys talking about, it's like, oh, yeah,

Thank you. Yeah, it's great.

Well, we have a lot of people that listen that say they don't even watch the show, and I'm like, okay, yeah, They're like, will you tell us everything that happens, and then we like hearing about the crimes.

So yeah. Yeah.

So, just before we get specifically into pure tell us where your SVU journey began.

Well, like many comics who do really horrible shows on the road and then go back to a terrible hotel room alone, I began to emotionally become very dependent on the entire law and Order catalog because it was always on because you'd have basic cable, so they would like TNT or whatever the station was that it was on in the nineties two thousands, it was always on, so no matter what time you came back from your gig, you could at least you would either see Sam Waterston

Episode and you will always enjoy that episode.

Do you still watch it now that you're at nicer hotels?

Yeah, if it's on, the only thing is that for SVU, I really do think I saw every episode once, if not twice, because I got into that specifically for a little while because I had a light obsession with Elliott Stabler, so I really enjoyed just visiting a man like that in my entertainment. So then I went back to the original Law and Order because there I didn't wasn't as familiar with every episode, so I wouldn't be like, oh, that's Jim Gavian loading that truck. That means we're about

And as SVU and the hierarchy of all the dick Wolf's near number one or is that a battle for you.

It's definitely number one in terms of like it feels like I went to high school with SVU, whereas the classic one is more of like the college I couldn't get into. And then Criminal Intent was like the JC that I was embarrassed to be at. But I would go there anyway, right because I didn't mind criminal Intent is just that I didn't understand what the crimes were, why we were talking about them a lot of the time.

I don't think I ever understood the intent of criminal intent, Like don't I don't really get it's more like going inside the mind yeah, of a killer.

But then you know, like there's the first episode that jumps out to me was like it was about how someone's young son who was in like his late twenties or thirties had Alzheimer's. So it was like it was always the situation where I'm like, is this really like a thing? Is this something? Is this worth our time? Or is this the weirdest thing you could possibly think of?

But it was just like, of course I know Tutuolo. Of course he's saying this thing. At this time. It's all very like Mom's cooking kind of feeling yes, a warm blanket?

Yeah, which is an episode Grandma, the meatball episode, isn't it called mom's cooking or something now, because we which one the one with a Magda from Sex and the City and she's making she's a meatball factory owner killer Oh.

My gosh, for SVU or for reg Yeah, no, oh, I forgot what that one is called.

We got to look it up. Oh my god. But I think there's like a mom's cooking vibe in there. I guess.

The other general we can ask like, if you needed a lawyer, who are you hiring?

Casey Novak? Right, okay, yeah, friend of the pod Diane Neil. Dian Neil. I feel like.

She is really hardcore, like doesn't take any shit, but then you know, has a heart of gold.

Yeah.

And also I just have really loved all the hair colors she's had over the years.

So many. We just we just watched an episode recently where we were like, what's happening. They put her out in the natural light and they let they just let the sun do its thing, and yeah, there were a lot of collars happening.

But what I love about dian Neil is she knows her hair look terrible and she'll talk about it.

Is that true? Didn't you tell? Yeah?

She goes ah and then they put they gave me those curls.

I look like a Raga muffet. Yeah, she knows that her hair journey was.

Rough, and that's really curl.

I feel like there's not a lot of actresses that would just dive right into that with you.

Yeez, she'll dive into whatever. I mean.

She told a diarrhea story on our podcast, so shit, So let's talk about this episode. I mean pure, one of our favorites, one of your favorites, A classic, a perfect meeting of the minds on this classic episode.

I mean, have you met Martin Short in real life? I have? Tell me about it.

Very briefly and very like, not in a meaningful way. But he used to have a talk show in the early two thousands that a bunch of people that we're friends with rode on and it was set up like a late night talk show, but I think it was like afternoon and so at the end of the show he had people doing sets. So I did comedy twice on that show, and he was really complimentary and really like warm in a genuine way when I was done,

Woa yeah. And the other thing was they kept trying.

It was it was like two thousand and two or something, pretty early two thousands, and they really wanted to flat iron my hair, and my hair was it was a little more fucked up than it is right now, like I just got up, but it was pretty big and kind of like my hair is neither wavy nor it's wavy not curly, so it gets big and it just kind of looks I don't know. Anyway, it was not the look of the time. And this hair person wanted nothing more, if not to flat iron it, then to

As they were anouncing my name. This woman was standing by like please, can I can I just do that? And I was like no, no, get away. I wouldn't let her brush my hair.

And then during the first set, lighting rig broke and made this loud bang during my set, and I didn't stop and I didn't react.

I just kept doing my set.

And they all really loved that that. I didn't like get all freaked out or whatever. I was just like, well, they can edit that out. In my mind, I'm like, they'll let it out later. And so anyway, I had to do my set twice on that one.

Is there video of this? Is this online somewhere? I guess so depths of YouTube. We might have to find it.

What did you think seeing him as a rapist and a virgin enthusiast.

I do not like evil, Martin Short. The world doesn't need it. Like by the end, it was really believable and it was upsetting and I didn't like it.

Yeah, well, I talk about this one moment where he is, well, it's hold on, do you hear the siren?

Yes?

I can.

I think it's thematically good and accurate.

Don't you that is true? Leave it in?

No, Martin Short, there's like one moment where he's watching the spy window and you know, his wife is blabbing, and in just one look, it really was like he just dropped his face and everything changed. And I am so impressed by that one moment and what a talented person an actor he is because one look and we knew, oh so good, Yes, yeah, and there is so much humor in this episode. The back and forths are so funny. One liner perfect and that's it, no.

Question, And it's like Martin Short, like can't he can't not be funny. There's even like a couple of parts where he's just really funny even though he's still being a creep and you're like, yeah, you just like it kind of oozes out of him.

I feel like he can't be well, he's a ridiculous faced person.

So in the beginning, it's like his ridiculous face is kind of giving this like I'm weird. I'm a weird psychic and very innocent or whatever. Uh. But I remember the first time I saw this it was I think, and I mean, so this was season six, right, Yeah, So I don't know if in the beginning of this show they had so many celebrities doing guest star pieces, because I remember once I started seeing the celebrities, I'd

Yeah, were you as annoyed as I was that his name was Sebastian Valentine.

I that sounds like a like a show dog's name or something.

It's like some dick one more time around the ring, Sebastian Valentine.

A lady in a black pants suit is running him around the room.

When you were saying it takes you out of it, I famously get taken out of it whenever they reuse actors. So even if it's like a not famous person, if it's like the guy who plays whatever in House of Cards, I know he's in season one and then you're bringing him back in season four as a totally different person, and I'm like, well he died, so what how did that happen?

You know? That doesn't bother me, That doesn't bother.

Somebody bothers me. I like people wearing any thoughts. I like people making money.

No, of course.

And once I talk to the actors and they're like, yeah, it's like an annuity. It really like helps you, I'm like, of course, for you, I want the opportunity, but get me as a viewer.

Well, what it is is I like that it's happening in the real world. It definitely is taking me out of my entertainment that I'm trying to obviously lose.

Myself in entirely.

But the thing I start thinking of is how many actors there are in New York City, and how hard it is to get an actual TV job, and how this guy must be good because he's now been brought back, Like what did you do? I just start thinking about that actor's like life career, Why are.

You such a great performer?

Because also, hasn't Jim Yeff been on multiple episodes of all of the Law and Orders.

He's yeah, he's only been on the one SVU where he's the child molester with the bad teeth. Yeah, but I think he's been on others, but just not s for you. Yes, I think he's been on the other franchise.

And I think in the other franchises he's truly like he definitely one time was loading up a truck where I was just like.

Uh oh, and then but he was in SVU. He's probably loading up a van. No, they get him in a van. He's got Oh it's.

Different, he's he's a red Herring kra he is loading up the van.

It ends up not being him. It's the guy. It's another guy who's the main guy.

Right.

He seems really guilty.

Yeah, because he's kind of dumb and seems like a bad person.

And then it's yeah.

So this episode, uh so nuts and twisting, but also the real the true crime we know. So we said that this episode is based partially on the canon Barbie Killers, which I know you've covered, yes, and then partially on this woman who did remove a baby from a pregnant woman's body.

Do you know about that case? The body Joe stin it.

I know about the case, and it was a woman who told her own story on I Survived, and it is one of my favorite episodes if I Survived, and then I told it on our podcast because it's the most crazy story, which is this woman was like eight nine months pregnant and a woman was like, I got we have the same name, and I got your baby shower gift.

I'll bring it over to your house. So she does it.

Everything's fine, and then a week later she's the same lady calls and goes, oh, now I have another one of your gifts, but I can't I have to do something.

I can't bring it over.

And so this woman, having already met a also this woman was as pregnant as she was, so she's like, oh, I'll just come pick it up on my way home from work. Therein the story begins of her getting trapped in this apartment and this lady trying to cut her baby out, and she had to fight her off and she ended up up having to kill her to get out.

That really pregnant was she No, she was not really pregnant.

The entire thing was set up and there was all this She this girl knew she was unsafe when she went in. She looked into one of the rooms because the woman kept trying to get her to come to different rooms in the house, and she was like, this is so weird or whatever. And there was one room where she looked in and she had people magazine covers with people's faces scratched out in frames on the bureau and she was famed framed and she is just like,

There's like a bad vibe happening here.

And then the lady came at her with a kitchen knife and they basically grappled with a kitchen knife and they she had to grab the knife with her hand to get it away.

Like it's the craziest story.

And this girl then the the police looked into her because they treated her like a murderer, and they had to go all the way through the story to actually find out that this girl was the victim, not the perpetrator.

She was completely like like, well, and she had defensive wounds obviously, yeah, yes, exactly. This wasn't like two ladies fighting or whatever. And also, well, you're eight or nine month that's not when you do a murder. I think you wait a few months and then you do your murders.

You'll have to speak to it, but you would know, but I mean, yeah, I would imagine.

Well, we covered a different crime for this, and I not that I'm excited to hear about a new crime, but I this sounds not exciting.

I don't know, you know what I mean. Great, well, a better ending than the one we covered.

Yeah, dead rendering and it's first person as opposed to this kind of horrible thing.

That happened, you know, yeah, yeah, what.

About Okay, Well, let's ask you the question that everybody asks us, which is like, do you see an Elliott Olivia endgame or do you think that they're but like she deserves better.

What's your vibe on that. I love the idea.

That they are, you know, because they've never gotten together or like it's all very like close. But nosigar great, Yeah, because I think it's like it's the old Salmon Diane thing where it's like you think that's what you want until it happens. Then you're over there in relationship land boo, no one wants it. It's all about unrequited love. All

There, I need someone that goes to therapy and choose is her not like my wife died and now I guess I'll go for the woman who's had a crush on me. I want someone that's like, damn, im, I'm in love with Olivia and I'm gonna chase her and I'm gonna get her and I'm gonna.

Help raise her kid with her. You know, Yeah, true, that's what I want.

But if we're talking Christopher Maloney, yes, we'd all like to smash.

Yeah, all wanting to bumb in Stable. Come on, Oh my god.

One of our listeners just sent us a photo of him at the Yale Harvard game this weekend, just looking like full New England fall day gorgeousness, Like he just never missed.

I missed that. I gotta find it.

Oh it's so good they took it without him noticing, or else I would have shared it.

He when I worked on Ellen way back in the two thousands, he was a guest and I was flipping out. But I was trying not to tell anybody because like the you know, I was friends with all the people, and I was like, I didn't want it to become like a weird thing where some and the other like, hey, come and meet him. I'm like, no, I don't want to.

I just can't.

Can't we all understand that this is like it's from a distance, that's what makes it good. Yeah, him as a person, he's an actor, Like he's not Elliott Stabler,

I feel like, no, he can turn anything into like I meant to do that.

I'm hot, Like he doesn't care.

It's just so fun ya, Karen, I've read an interview of this kind.

You know, you know, if you have any more thoughts you want to throw in about the episode, like notes you took, but you don't have to, Like, you know.

I did love when he grabbed his wife through the jail bus. It's just like, holy shit, the turn became so full in that moment. And I did love that he was secretly a Canadian.

I know.

They were like, we can't even hide it. It's Martin Jordy's so Canadian.

Yes, and they were doing it was like they're the Kennon Barbie Killers. No, no, it's also a baby cut out of it. Like they they tacked on so many things right in the last seemingly five minutes.

It was crazy.

Yeah, because I don't Hopefully there hasn't been a story of a girl who offered her virginity online and then got kidnapped.

You know, hopefully that hasn't happened, but.

Oh, that's the one thing I was gonna That's what I was going to say. My favorite part of this whole episode was when they were looking at they were trying to find all the people who may have bitted on her. Virginity is bidded the right thing. And I don't know how I spotted this because there was just a long list of like user names, and the first one I saw was Let's Eat Pie.

Oh my god.

I literally had to rewind it and go look back, and I was like, it really does say that, yeah, because.

You're supposed to only be looking at Connie Sewer, but Karen really got her eyes wandering and finding.

Some other because the first thing I think of every anytime I see something like that is some writer had to go sit down and write out that list so that then the like graphics people could go and make that website. And they were you know, Connie Sore whatever, and they were like it's stone or ninety five or whatever.

But it was like, let's eat capital L, capital E, capital P. It made me laugh so hard.

Let's eat Pie. Wait what other moments caught your eye. These are all so funny.

Well, I do love it episode with Sister Peg because that actress has.

Been on TV for You might know her name offhand. I think I wrote it here somewhere.

Oh yes, her name is Charlene Woodard. H yes, yes, but she's been on TV for so long. I do love the way doctor wang Uh bead Wong is always he is always piled on with all the expositions, so he literally experienced. He's there, he's explaining what micro expressions are,

And sometimes he has to talk for so long that they just have him kind of they just overlay his narration over other things happening in the show because they can't just show like a two minute shot of Bea d Wong.

Just talking just being like the reason he gets the name the letter J is because his name John and Mary are the most comment.

And to me, he is whatever he says is fact to me, like that's bibliography proof.

Like Box said it, It's true.

We do love Sister Peg and we have our fingers crossed to get her.

Obviously we have a so what would Sister Peg do segment? Every week? Yeah, in the wild Thing.

Do you know the comedian Joe quisala Is that he makes a lot of videos and stuff.

Yeah, I've been on his podcast and I've watched a lot of his stuff.

So his girlfriend shot Sister Peg, Like that's the actress, like he texted me out of the blue when we started the pod, and so his girlfriend is the actress that like Stabler kills and she shoots Sister Peg.

Holy shite.

Yes. And I just met her at a bar like a month ago at a birthday party and was like, oh my.

God, when you shot Sister Peg.

And she's so shy and she did not want to talk about it. And then I saw Johnny Pemmerton, who had just been the rapist, and I go, hello, you rapist, And I'm like, this podcast is taking.

Over my life. I gotta calm down. All the actors show up on that.

So at some point, no, I could tell she gets worried when I enter her room because she knows I'm about to like be line towards It just made me think once, long, long ago, I had an audition in Seam Valley for Law and Order Regular and it was just for a protester outside a courthouse. I cannot remember the line, which is weird because I usually once I memorize lines, I can't forget them, and if the audition went particularly badly, I will rethink about the lines over the years.

I'm a total lunatic.

The fact that I ever tried acting is ridiculous because it drives me absolutely insane. But I remember going, like, what's the show, and like it was like early enough on that I didn't know what my part was or what or how it worked. But like two years later I would have fucking nailed that audition because I'd seen so many episodes at that point that I would have been.

Just like, wait, no, what I think?

Just know that, like you have to just like give it all and be in that one moment and then that's all you're doing, like interrupting the press conference or whatever.

I couldn't.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's also out of the realm of possibility that SVU will do an episode that involves like characters like you, like a character like you and Georgia, like a podcaster.

Well this episode that there was one guy podcaster.

Yes, Well, so they did this episode recently that people think is based on Jensen and Holes actually because it's like a it's like a former cop and a podcaster sort of journalist teaming up. Oh and all those people were like, didn't you guys think this was like Jensen Holes.

I told Jensen about it.

He hadn't seen episode or it didn't seem to care much, but but I was like, I could see there being an episode where like cause you know, where like there's two characters like you and Georgia that are like true crime hosts and there's either something real that happens or maybe this is my Law and Order s few specscript that I'm giving upway the plot too. Right now, Cut this out, Hannah, cut this out.

Although I would say I would say don't do it, because I think that it's like when they do stuff like that where it's not just like the crimes that people know about, but then like it's this kind of cultural reference.

I think that also takes me out of it when I well, like.

They just did a TikTok murder thing like they are a rape thing. Excuse me, and like it was everybody was like lol SVU tackling TikTok. So, yeah, you're right in a way, they always they do it. I mean I know that there. It's kind of like how they stay current or whatever.

But I'm always just like, anytime I see it, I'm just like, all right, I'm fine with just like fight you find a body behind some garbage cans in New York City because truly, as a farm girl from northern California, I'm just about those brownstones. What's going on in those brownstones? How about you get a search warrant and bust open the door of that brownstone?

Like please, that's all I want. I'm writing that down. What's going on in that brownstone? That is.

Woo.

So I hope you enjoyed that little gift from us to you, your queen Karen.

And we love talking to Karen. We love Karen. We shouldn't wait.

I wish we asked her what it feels like to have the name Karen.

But you know, I know, during all this time, Yeah.

I wonder because I bet there's zero babies called Karen, Now you don't do it. Have you seen there's like a Twitter thing where someone was caught like writing to customer support and the response then at the end wrote Karen, and this woman's like, I really don't appreciate you talking to me like that, and the woman goes, oh, I'm sorry, no, my name is Karen.

It was just me signing off. I don't know if you've seen that.

So that episode is obviously a classic.

I'll post mortem. What did we learn?

I mean, don't get in a car with a husband and a wife just because they've got a baby with them, because you do not know where that baby came from.

Yeah, just don't get into a car.

Yeah.

Ever, I used to I used to hitchhike. I actually really not hitchhike. I sit in Rome. I would get into people's cars in Rome, Italy like I would, cause there's like I don't know, there's not no crime there, but there's not as much body to body crime there, and so like people would just pick us up and take us.

To the bars we were going to. They were just nice and like I would never trying to you. I would, which.

Sometimes I know, but I would always be with somebody else. But one time I was by myself and I got into a car with a guy that had a car seat in the back of his car, just because I thought, oh, he's got a kid. And he did just take me home and it was no big deal. But that's a horrible, horrible beginning to many many murders stories, because then he knows where you live. I was living in a convent. I mean, he could have come in. There would have been twenty girls. He could have gone after. I guess,

But listen, I guess what we could learn is that psychics are fake. But I don't believe that, and I do believe in psychics, and I will be going to mediums and psychics for the rest of my life.

In Taro.

Interesting, Interesting, I'm not a believer. But you know what, I've never actually sat with somebody that like changed my mind.

I would love to say, did you not have a nice tarot? Experience? In Balm Springs? Is different to me? Why?

Because Taro to me is like, here's generally like the vibes going on in your life. It's not like your brother is talking to you from the beyond, like you know what I mean, it's like a little bit.

Not or like you know.

I have a medium that I've been wanting to go to for a while, and maybe if I'll give myself a Christmas gift and I will go and report back if because I've never met my grandparents ever. They were all dead before I was born, and I feel like if I would love if they can hop on over from Russia.

Maybe they have some stuff to say. I don't know.

That's another thing. How do psychics talk to people that don't speak English.

I don't know. I have no idea. How does that work? Maybe should? I don't know. We'll see.

Okay, I'm booking an appointment immediately. I'm booking an appointment asap. I really want to. Well, maybe my grandparents won't show up.

I mean. The reason I found out about.

This medium is because Busy Phillips was unless Culturistas, a podcast we share many top five Spotify lists with with so that we're in good company there and her friend who was a writer on her show, Shantira had a reading and Busy's grandma was in Shantira's reading, and so Shantira called Busy and was like, hey, your grandma showed up and then called Busy a name that only her grandma called her and no one else would know about.

That's incredible.

So then Busy went to this woman and then I messaged Shantira. I got the information. And now maybe now I have to do it now that we're like fully talking about it on the pod.

Well, I have.

If one of my relatives comes to you during your session, please do drop me a text.

Well, and I was telling you about this other TikTok I saw now that I'm on TikTok, I hired a TikTok guy.

Come, you know, follow me.

But I was telling you yesterday when we were hanging out that like this nurse was talking about how they can't explain it, but it happens all the time so much that they put it in family and patient like information packets when someone is like dying in the hospital or really sick, and when people are like about to die,

Yeah, wild.

So there's got to be you know. So that's why I believe in that. I believe there's a lot of people lying, like Sebastian Valentine, but I do believe people must have some sort of gifts.

Well, yeah, there's a lot of quacks.

And actually we were on a podcast called What's Your Sign Podcast and they recently posted a thing where there was an article or something about how all these people have been scamming people on Instagram pretending that they're mediums and psychics and stuff like that, and they're like trying to get the word out like any any legitimate readers, not going to ask you for money over DM, like

No, I don't think it's hard.

I bet there's a lot of loonies like me who are willing ready.

And opening their wallet's why thrilled? Why don't I just give you access to my venmo? So way anything else from this episode, I mean basically.

Where we're anti death penalty.

I mean, we've said at one thousand, Martin is so talented, Martin Short's very talented.

Maloney and Cragan we're very funny. I mean, I don't know, I'm sick of learning stuff. Can I say that I'm done? Yeah, I'm done learning.

That's fine, you don't have to take Well, we're canceling this section of the podcast at least it doesn't want to do it anymore. But we also wanted to let you guys know there's gonna be a little shake up over here at team that's messed up, and our intrepid producer, Hannah is moving upward and onward at the exactly right company and will unable to be continue producing our podcast, but we'll be still working with us, you know, tangentially

But we'll still keep the group chat. We'll keep the group chat. Yeah, the group chat will still probably be in effect.

Tanna, do you want any final words? Do you want to tell everyone your new title?

No, I'm still booking your guests, so I'll be in the group chat with you.

So if you're still wondering how did they get so and so, that's still going to be Hannah, but Analise will be the one that's tippity tapping and finding out answers to questions that we should have researched ourselves.

Well, I was noticing already.

The difference is because we were recording Heinous Crime this week and Annalise was having a hard time.

Oh yeah, the facial expressions from Analise are much more.

Analise covering eyes their head was like going back deep size.

There was a lot of It was really funny.

Usually Hannah's just typing and looking into a distance. No, but it was just funny to see how affected on release was and how we weren't not It was a sad moment of it was a very sad thing we got here.

Yeah, of course, of course we're really happy to welcome a producer that has emotions. We're excited, but a huge thank you to Hannah and a huge welcome to on Aalise in their new role, and we're really excited. Let's plug forward to what would Sister Peg do this week?

And next week's episode is going to be Pathological Season nineteen episode ten.

It's a good one.

It's a goodie peacock, you know the drill DVR. And again, thanks for being with us for one whole year.

Yes, thank you, guys. We love you so much. Keep up the dms and emails and everything. We love hearing from you.

Guys. Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Clank and at Glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our incredible producer Hannah Kyle Kraton.

And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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