Privilege w/ Michael Learned

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done.

Hello, Hello, this is Lisa, and this is that's messed up and I did it in the wrong order.

No big deal.

Hi, I'm Kara. You guys know what we do on this pod. I hope we talk SVU. We talk about a true crime that the episode is based on, and we interview a fabulous guest. But first we catch up and I'm in La Lisa's in New York. We've been in the same city for a couple of weeks. I'd love to hear the latest.

What's on the latest is the fires in Canada have come to breathe their orange smoke on to New York and the air is grim, the quality is bad, and we're all just waiting for the vander Pump reunion for tonight.

Yeah, that's the only man gonna clear the air.

On the menu, we're gonna have goat cheeseballs, pump teenies, not about the pasta salad, and lobster corn dogs. Since we can't support shorts and Sandy's this is amazing, and I.

Came up with a game.

So you know, a few seasons ago, Shina was just like, Rob hung up my TV in seven minutes, and I timed him.

So we're gonna play pin the TV on the wall. Yes, this is so good. Then I have an eight am.

Flight to meet you for our show tomorrow in San Francisco. Oh my god, I'm so like jealous that you're three hours ahead. So you're actually gonna watch the reunion like you're gonna watch it like while I'm giving my kids dinner.

I mean, it's gonna be on so early for you. I know.

The only thing I'm scared of is people better shut their fucking mouths until the commercial breaks, I know, and then tomorrow I'll watch it uncensored because you know, this will just be live television.

Yes, yes, the peacock versions.

I haven't been watching those, but I've been seeing like some of the clips with the swears, and they are satisfying.

It's so much better. I hate puritanical culture. Swears should be on television.

Oh yeah, it's noways apologize to me for swearing in front of my kids, and I go, I swear in front of my kids, Like I just am really trying to like take the power away from swear words with like my kids.

I agree with you.

I was at my friends kids party ones and like Katie Perry's a song came on where like bitch was or something, and one of the other parents tried to get on a high horse, and my friend was just like, they don't even know, they don't know if you don't make a big dear about it, yeah, like you're the one being nuts and you can leave.

Actually, like you don't have to be here if that one word bothers you.

I just feel like we swear as people, and then if you don't swear as a person, you don't have to. But like some of us swear naturally. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, It's just like I don't know, They're just words. It was such a big deal in my house to say shut up or to say like I mean, we would never say like fucker shit, but to say, like even call my brother a prick, I'd get in so much trouble, like just any bad words, And I was like, who, Like I mean, I'm gonn obviously try to teach my

It's like virginity. It doesn't exist. The limit does not exist.

The limit does not exist.

I am so obviously we're in the time machine, so we're a little bit late on some things. And obviously, by the time you listen to this episode scanned of all will be we'll all know what the big surprise is. And obviously, but you're getting us in real time right now, in our real time, we don't know what's going to happen tonight. And we got to talk about the season finale of Yellowjackets. First of all, what is with this

That's such a weird number.

I feel like shows usually have eight or ten, or like six or ten and nine. You do something near your hair, Oh yeah, I got it done by your girl.

It looks great, Thank you, thank you? Oh my god, do you love it? Yes? I love it.

It took a me, yeah, sorry, it took me a few minutes, but it just hit me where I was like, wait a minute, yeah.

She did like a great job. She she also like she was so she was really cool. She's obsessed with you. I was like, I had to like tell her like I don't know, she just like didn't realize what a big stand up you are.

And I was like, oh, yeah, she doesn't.

Brag about herself, so I usually do it, like when we like we met dtox and she's like, how do I know you? And I was like, bitch, she's huge on in stand up and she's on TikTok and Instagram.

Well, I saw her friend Matteo Laine yesterday and I told him about drag Con and I was like, I spent fifty dollars to meet dtalks and he goes, I mean I could text her like what are you doing?

And then I fibbed a little because I said yeah.

She said I look famili and I went, yeah, this is humiliating for us. We waited in line for you, bitch. No, your hair looks incredible. Was the pug there? There's usually a pug named Darla. I didn't see a pug, but that sounds really cute. But it was a shatter. It was a long process.

But she's also like such a boss, Like she's in the middle of just like talking about kids stuff and then she goes, don't do that, like and like, but I wanted to say to her assistance. I wanted to be like, I feel like she's really gonna teach you guys to be great hairstylists. Like she's really like she doesn't like just she doesn't mince words. She's just kind of like, no, see how you can't do that, like,

She changed my life because now with my new allergies, I can't even do hair products and I still get complimented on my hair and like, I love my new I've never done a center part. Like she really is a visionary and an artists, not just like a job to her.

Like she's roight and.

The salon is like beautiful and everybody's like really nice and friendly.

There was a crazy woman in there.

I wish I was like, you got to tell lies about this, because there was this woman next to me that was with a different stylist, and I didn't really hear it.

I was zoned out.

I heard the woman later giving the stylist like fake compliments, and all I saw my stylists.

And everybody looking at each other giving eyes.

So when the woman walked out, our girl was like, what the fuck was that? Don't let anybody talk to you like that, Like if she talked to me, like I was almost going to say something to her, like I was about to like step to her, like.

What do you find fake compliments? Like understanding?

Well, so what happened first was this woman yelled at her stylist and was like, no, this isn't like the right color, this isn't the right thing. But it was like it was an extension that she asked them to use, and they're like, yeah, this is just not a good extension, like that you brought us or that you want in your hair, like we can do X y Z, but like this is not the right thing, and she was She stood up and like ripped her robe off and was like acting all huffy. Then I think they got

Like.

As soon as she walked out, everybody was just like she was like, the girl's like, I'm supposed to wash her hair next week again, and they were all like, cancel on her. You can't have somebody like that in the salon treating you like that. Like it was wild. But you know, I was there for five hours. I was bound to catch some five hours girl. It was crazy. I can tell you more about it off Mike. It's like two, it's too much. But it was five full hours. But wait, should we get.

You even plan for it to be five hours.

I planned for it to be three with a possible like overlap. And then Jared was already picking up the kids and taking them to the playground, and I just was very late to meet him, but the kids were so happy when I got there. They were like eating pizza and like having a blast. So I had nothing, no reason to stress, but I was It's a long fucking time to sit somewhere.

I just was dying at the end.

But worth it. I do love that. I do love it. I love the color I did. It's like I styled it myself this time. But she did a great job anyway, So yellowjackets fucking. When I saw what happened, I was like, oh my god, this is the finale. And that's when I checked the episode count and was like, oh my god, there's only nine. But you know there is going to be some kind of bonus episode coming out. Well that's what I hear, but like, yeah, I don't buy it.

Where is it?

Well, the people said, like the people that created it. I read something where they said that they want to like give everybody time to like process and then it's going to probably happen in a few months or something.

But okay, you know what it's like if you want to do what they did. Fine, it was done poorly. It was bad. It was really bad. It was it was like a phony, fake scene it wasn't believable.

It was stupid. They got rid of a character.

That I think is kind of a lifeblood of the show.

Yeah, was that the word you're looking for?

Like, well, no, because I love Melanie Lynsky's character so much too, but I love I love Christina.

Whatever.

If you don't want to know what happened, fucking fast forward, I'm not.

Yeah, you gotta read a forward because we're going to talk about this and it's gonna have major yellowjacket season two spoilers, So fast forward, we're going to talk about it.

Like Juliette Lewis and Christina Ricci had such a chemistry, such a dynamic together to keep them separate all season and then finally we get them together and it's like finally and last is like in the Call Dead that like, and it was like the scene was hokey. That's the word.

Like, it didn't ridiculous sense, it was ridiculous. And I actually read the Vulture recap in anticipation of this conversation because I know you read them too, and I was like, they pointed out a lot of stuff. They were like first the daughter shows up as a person interrupting and then the other girl. It just like it was all like too capery and wild, and it was also like, are you guys really gonna hunt Melanie Lynsky, Are you not? Like it was so all over the place of the

And that it also takes away from the compellingness of the young actress because like, I loved the dynamic, the shift between young and old. So it's like to know that she's gone and so watch the young is strange. I liked having our core there.

Yes, but I have to say, I don't know that they wrote her off the show. I have a feeling she wanted out. I just have a feeling.

Okay, that's smarter than what I thought, because I thought like she might be difficult, because remember that one interview, maybe like she was just causing trouble, and even on Less Cultury Stafe, Melanie Lynsky said, like, no one's like Juliette, you know in a way where I'm reading between the lines. I can't be certain that's what she meant. But I was like maybe they're getting rid of her because she's psycho, but you're right. Maybe she was like, I don't want

Wait, she she's not scientologist, does she? Of course she is? Oh I forgot that. Oh that's not great.

But yeah, Like in my opinion, what people are saying too is that she didn't like the direction that her character was going, and like I feel like maybe she just said, great, I had a great ride on the show, Like I'm done, you know, to you know what I.

Would have done, Have the young girl in the cult fucking kill her, have it be a weird accident, have them hunt. Yes, Like there's just so Melanie Lynsky choke her out to fucking death. Like I just think it's just so hokey. It's like Christina re.

All like yeah, like tripping and oh like in your back like this is Benny Hill. Yeah, just was so ridiculous.

But also like them all agreeing that they're gonna like what's it called, like humor Lottie and her delusions, but then all get bloodlust. Like I just it's fucked up. What I did love was Coach Ben. I think burning down the cabin and trying to kill them all because they're psychopaths. But like that's cool because now I'm ready for the third season.

I'm like, what as usually do?

What you do?

Like, yeah, But the thing I've said about this show to you, like maybe off mic, but also on another podcast that we did, is like I find there to be a huge disconnect between the now and the bat and the and the past. The past I'm locked fucking in, Like I am into all those actresses, I'm into the performances, I'm into the plot, the Coach Ben, Where's fucking Crystal?

Like all of the stuff. There's good stuff going on there.

The present is like it's like to me, I don't watch How to Get Away with Murder or like, but it seems like one of these like soapy ABC shows like Gray's or something where it's like, what's what is happening right now? Like I don't understand a lot of the choices that they're making and the cop dying. How are they going to cover up the CoP's death? I didn't understand Walter Tattersaw, how that whole thing planned out and I was like, what, what's even going on? Like it was very confusing if.

I just had such high hopes, I was such a diehard. Thank god I didn't get a tattoo because I am upset.

Well, there is a sophomore slump with a lot of shows. Hopefully season three. They hear some of the feedback and like, cause I was deep in the comments too, and people were like, maybe I'm done with this show now, like people, you know, like they just.

People were not satisfied with this season.

No, And the thing is like they didn't have to wrap up the Adams stuff, like they didn't have to rush. It felt rushed and crazy and haphazard. Honestly, if you needed to kill off her, like I'd rather fall off a cliff or get into a weird car accident. Like yeah, I just really hated it, and I hated You're right, like everyone with guns right away, the cops and Elijah Wood and everyone's there in the hospital. It was bananas. I really am upset, But you're right. The young storyline

I'm the last one because I felt like I had to watch that OC crossover where like the last one I watched was the one where like all these women are being attacked and they don't and it seems like people are maybe hiring someone to do it. Yeah, but they just end the SVU episode because the answer is in the OC episode pretty much.

Oh wow.

And so that's why I was confused, and so I didn't want to and so I had to. Yeah, so I had to catch up on OC and I'm almost there. I'm almost caught up, So I have like two more OC's and then the last SVIE to watch. So I haven't seen that Rollins is back and pregnant with Sonny Caristie Junior, but I know that she is and the real actress, Kelly Giddish, she came on our podcast she was probably with child and just didn't tell us her best friends how dare but exciting news for her.

Congrats Kelly and Amanda.

And yeah, I don't know how this whole season of sview like kind of was weird to me.

Oh my god, I you know the article sorry to jump ship. We do also have to start this pod. But the New Yorker article you sent me on the cancelation club, okay, really got me going. So there's a club of thought criminals, cancel witers, and they meet up and they all act like victims. They all act like the world is unfair, and then they are the craziest group of people I've ever read about. Like one of the authors in quotes wrote, I've done enough psychedel to forgive Hitler.

Yeah, yeah, I don't see like that girl.

Yeah you should. No one likes you and you're not canceled. That's a bad opinion, and they'll fuck yourself. And that girl and that girl is a is a comedian. I just texted Casey. I just texted you the link, so we can put the link to it in our show notes if you want to see this article. But it's just so funny how nonchalantly she describes all the people that are at this party. So this is like a These are like happenings that this woman who's a psychologist

It's like, Okay, give me that guy's thoughts. I need them.

And then it'll be like this girl who wrote an article about how affirmative action is bad at Harvard. It's like, you like, or how it like let's in unqualified people of color, Like it's all these like horrible people. And then it's like this other writer who's been accused of sexual assault by many people, like but I don't believe it.

Yeah, it's yeah.

And there was like a guy who's like, I can't get a talent representative because I'm a white man, and it's like, why does everyone else that you're working with that's a white man have a representative. The persons in that article I actually used to know in New York and that person you're talking about, and he was a really sweet, nice person and I feel like he Taylors all the time had a mental break.

Well, it just happens.

This happens to little white men, This happens to I can only speak in our industry, but like, this happens two men that do not get as successful as they want and they become right wing lunatics and it's everyone else's fault but them, And this is classic.

It happens constantly.

And I always say, like, if I wanted to sell out theaters, I think I can go.

Right wing and I would be the biggest star easily. Easily.

It is you will know.

I literally have you seen the clip going around of somebody that we both know, who's a comedian back in New York on news Max making a racist joke and then you go to her thread and it's all this like conspiracy shit where she thinks that she thinks that the Left is like targeting her, and it's like, girl, there's video of you saying bad shit, Like there's no underground cabal of like people.

Trying to take you down.

You're taking yourself down, yourself, Like it's just I just.

Don't get the canceled things. It's like, ye know, some things people don't like. Yeah, if you say you can forgive Hitler and you don't understand why people don't like that or want to be around you.

Don't.

I don't get the confusion. It's not a you're right, it's not conspiracy.

We don't like you.

Yeah, I don't want to hang out with someone who's down, who thinks they're superior, because I've done enough mushroom where they can forgive a warlord at a genocidalmaniac. You had to take so many drugs to convince yourself that you're okay after you got canceled for writing something that was racist.

Like, that's it, that's it, that's what happened girl.

Yeah, but it's a funny article. We all will post it on.

Our head we'll link to it in our Yeah, we'll link to it in our show notes too.

I just sent it to Casey. But we should get started.

I mean, there's drag race to talk about, but we just have to get going. Gotta just want to remind everybody before we start that we will be in Denver this coming Sunday. You guys come see us on the twenty fifth in Denver at Comedy Works. It's one of the best clubs. We sold out last year and had the best time. We all went out and got a drink with a bunch of you last year. Who knows,

Uh well to come.

So a listener Acutie Acutie of ours posts of a little video are a story on their Instagram and it's in Russian and they go, I don't know what this says, but I like it or whatever, and so I translated it for him and it said we need me and

That is so well, Now you guys are going to have a serious conversation.

At the Bourbon Room about this and it's gonna be so funny. But yeah, come see us. The Bourbon Room show is going to be so fun and that's messed up. Live dot Com is where you can get ticket links to all that stuff, as well as merch our own website, so you can check out where Lisa's doing stand up. She'll be in Denver doing stand up as well. The day after our show, Lisa, two days after.

I don't know anymore.

Around Monday night works. Life is hard, Jake, It's quite easy, but I just can't even handle that.

Let's start this podcast. Jesus, let Christ get going.

We got a good one for you today. All right, guys, today we are doing I consider this a classic.

I don't know why.

This one's always stuck in my head. I've always remembered it.

That's what I was gonna say before you said it. I was going, we're doing a classic.

Yeah, Like, I don't really know why per se, because it's not like there's like a major star in it or anything.

But I think maybe for me it's maybe it's the rich we love a wretch, and I think.

It might be one of the first big episodes where it's like the uber wealthy er hiding the crimes for their I'm sure there's one of those in seasons one, two or three, but this feels like one of the first big ones. And there's just little pieces of it that always stick out to me. It's called privilege. It's season four, episode seventeen, this baby came.

You know what else I learned? Privilege is not easy to spell. There's a little secret eye in the middle of there.

Privilege. Yeah.

Yeah, It's an annoying word that you have to overenunciate yes, and it bothers me. And they use it in multiple contexts in this episode. I always try to squeeze a D in there, like a dge like yes. Always, it's just like word.

I do that as well. That's my big thing.

I remember that little I, but the D I'm always like, it's like sledge I got it, But it's not so. This little baby came out in two thousand and three February exciting. We open on a scene just straight out

You have my blessing.

And then as she's so funny because I was watching this at my parents' house while I was doing research, just you know, another a fourth or fifth three watch why not? But they're like do you really need to be watching this? And I was like I'm a teen, but I was like, yeah, it's for work.

And then the first thing is her being like, if you want to fuck him, fuck him like this.

Ole world lady.

She's poking at a dead animal in her wisteria tree while giving her you know, sixty nine year old friend like a relationship advice, and she's like, yeah, I mean, if it's just for the sex, it's you have my blessing, And like she's waiting for this dead animal to fall out of the tree while she's like, you're pushing seventy how many more rides on the merrygo round or left?

She gives us a really nice scream.

Queen scream, and we see not much of this woman except that she is wearing a maid's uniform. Cut to the debrief by Benson, the woman who found the body is named Katerina Blundell Ben. Benson goes, the victim dropped it on her unexpectedly. It's like, okay, comedy, Benson, the victim is in her twenties, was wearing a maid's uniform. No Id Sabler is like, oh, does the woman who found her recognize her from the neighborhood, and Benson goes, I doubt it because the victim has no face.

Ugh ouch gross.

And then Warner pops in and she's like, from the lividity, it seems like she's been dead a while. She says it looks like a suicide, but she's also got bruising on her breasts, thighs, and buttocks.

That's vu was called.

And then Benson goes, maybe a rapent toss And I'm like, is that a term? Is that like a term that they use all the time, a rape and toss? Or is she just like coming up with that. I don't know if it's a term or not, but I know it's going to be merch for sure. We should make ring toss game corn hornhole or cornhole bean bags. Yeah, let's say that, Okay, But then Warner goes, these injuries are long standing, Like, this is not what happened right before she died.

This looks like ongoing, you know, abuse or something.

So they see the building that she must have fallen from is a huge high rise called Trellick or tower, and Stabler calls it Millionaire Heaven, and they assume she's a maid who like they immediately create a story for this maid. Should They're like, she's a maid, she doesn't speech, must speak much English, she's alone in a foreign country. She was raped, but she couldn't call the cops. So

So they go up there and he's like, how do you know it is us?

And it's because every building in this every apartment in this building, their windows don't even open big enough for a kid to fit out of, So the only place somebody could have jumped from would have been the very tippity top the penthouse. Baby, So he says, the apartment's been empty all weekend. The family was in Connecticut until Missus Lamberley came home Sunday night, and he said there

Can I help you?

I'm sorry to keep you waiting, like very Connecticut lockjaw and all that, and she tells them that all of the help had the weekend off. So they go out onto the penthouse balcony. They see that it looks right down onto where the body was found, and they're like, we're gonna need to look at security camera tapes and have CSU come out here and check the scene. And they're like, don't touch the railing, old lady, and she's like, oh, so, you know, we're about to get investigating because this seems

Out in Connecticut.

They see on security tapes a woman in a maid's uniform entering with her own key at four four five on Saturday, and Kragan's like, any reports of missing servants, which I just thought was a funny line, and they're like, no, everyone is accounted for, So who is this woman? So now Melinda is in absence of a face. Melinda is running dental prints and everything on this person because facial

So there we go.

It's like any fantasy, I guess of like the FedEx guy or a nurse coming to your house or any of that. In the next scene, Douglas Lamberley has entered the chat and he is played by John Bolger. He has a sort of an older, balding Bradley Cooper vibe to me, especially if you go to his IMDb and

I believe it's season six.

The episode we covered called Identity about the two twins where one is a girl and one is a boy, but not really. He plays their father, so if you recognize him, it could be from that. He looks at a picture of the security footage of the woman entering the apartment and he goes, oh, I think that's Anna Rivera.

She worked for them for a month.

They learned that she lied about her legal status and they had to let her go. She was very upset about losing the job, but they did give her three months severance, which is they say, pretty generous.

I feel like it's pretty generous.

And Stabler's like, bro, she was wearing stilettos and price the underwear. I don't think she came up here to polish the credenza like a little Stabler sass. And he also explained that her body showed signs of repeated violent sex. There's a lot of back and forth with this guy, like what what are you saying? You know what I'm saying. You don't think I had anything to do with this, do you? And then the subject turns to his son, how well did your son know Anna?

And he's getting really mad.

Now he's like he was in Connecticut, we all were, and he's getting really pissed. But the mother's like, calm down. Yelling is unseemly, you know. She gets them to be quiet, and then they're like, do you guys have an address on Anna? And she's like. The grandmother's like, we'll get it to you, no problem. She's being very cooperative. Suddenly a CSU guy interrupts. It goes detectives. There's something you should see, and I think this would make good merch detectives.

To do with her stuff?

And Stabler takes a brush out of toothbrush for Warner to confirm the positive ID. So now we're back at Melinda's house and she goes, guess what, these items that you grabbed are absolutely unhelpful because they're both brand new. She also shows them very fine cuts on the victim's finger and they're like, that seems like weird for a maid like and she they swabbed and she didn't find any household cleaners, but did find a specific kind of

Night of the murder.

So Munch obviously, who always gets the grunt work of like, go through nine million directories and find this person. He goes, Guys, there's tons of film schools in New York. He's really complaining, He's like, and also, a kid not showing up to film school class on a Monday morning is not exactly setting off any alarm bells. So Olivia's like, okay, well, there is a student named Carmen Trancoso who was supposed to screen her film at the new school and never

Dun dun dun.

So we're connecting the dots here back at the precinct, Benson's adding Carmen's pick to the wall of info, you know, the little Homeland wall that they always have going on, and says the Emmy confirms that DNA proves it's Carmen Trencoso, Drew Lamberley's ex who is the victim that they have found. So Anna Rivera has vanished and there's no record of her on any flights. And suddenly in walks Drew Lamerley,

She's dead.

Music swells and we fade to come for some reason there Deton.

This is Eric Vondtton.

He's a child actor who was in a ton of stuff and actually voiced the psycho neighbor kid named Sid in all the toy story.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, I just found that out when I was looking about, uh looking him up. He doesn't act anymore. Oh really, yeah, it looks like he stopped. He came out of retirement, they said to do one toy story thing in twenty ten, and that's it.

I wonder what he's up to.

I know, well, oh actually his Wikipedia said he's like a banker now, he'd like or business like investment banking type of stuff, which he kind of has to look for, you know. Yeah, I remember him the most from Princess Diaries.

Yeah, that's and we know that's a blind spot for old Kara. Well it's also he was a lot.

He was always on the covers of like Tiger Beat J fourteen, like he was part of that.

Crew of ten heart throbs with highlights. So well, he's a little hard. He's married with kids now and he's doing like regular business for work. But I'm sure people recognize him all the time, and I'm sure his episode comes on all the time.

But there's something about.

The way he says Carmen Trencoso, Like I always remember the way he says that, and when I think of this episode Privilege, I go, I'm always like, is that the Carmen Trenkoso episode? Like because of his like a rich kid pronunciation of her name. But anyway, so top of back too, Drew's given them all the info. He's like, Carmen and I dated a month. It was really intense. It was so intense I had to end it. He

Is like, look at this, you little prick. Look what you did to her.

And then he admits that him and Carmen had a lot of rough sex, but he's like, Carmen loved it. It was never enough for her. She always wanted more. She wanted me to choke her until she blacked out. I couldn't do it. It was too much for me. That's why I broke up with her. So I don't know this kid's a good actor because like, at points of it, you're like, is he telling the truth?

Who knows?

Yeah, But you know, it's like it's such a acting for me because it's like I don't buy it.

I don't buy it. If you had no, I don't buy it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we cut to Daddy Cragan gathering answers. He says there was They find out there was, in fact a ten minute phone call I'm the Penthouse to Connecticut at five point thirty two on Saturday. The bruising could be consensual what Stablers take, And Stabler's like, this kid's got an answer for everything. So then he's like, all right, well we don't have a lot right now.

I don't know.

I always saw I grew up saying Richard scary. This woman's name is pronounced is spelled like his. But I love the idea of a defense attorney named Laura Scary, Like, what a funny last name for that line of work. She is in six episodes of SVU, this character Laura Scary and this is the first one. And her name. The actress's name is Maryette Hartley. She has one hundred and thirty six credits. She's been acting since the sixties.

We just came from Carmen's attorney.

Laura makes a nasty dig, being like, oh, has mister Deliah been hit by any ambulances lately, implying you know that he's an ambulance chaser lawyer and not as highbrow as she is. She implies that Carmen was unbalanced and trying to extort the Lamberleys, and when it didn't work out,

He was pretty popular. He played sports.

He could have played in college, but he never graduated high school. Like he was good enough. He was good enough at hockey that he could have gone on to play in college, but he was like, never graduate high school, so what's up? Then he did three years of college in Paris, where I guess they don't give a shit if you finished high school, not in the States at least, And then Craigan says, well, we don't have time to chase shadows. Go check out why I love how Craig

In my.

Captions it said aided. I don't really know what an aided card is, but they're kept in a different place than the sixty one's. So when they were, you know, getting rid of all their evidence with whoever they had on the inside of the police department, the lamber Les did not get this aided card. It has the list the victim's name listed as well as an address, and the victim's name is Jenny White, twenty.

Four years old.

So now they're at this brownstone and a woman opens the door and her name is Camilla Hartnell and she looks like a rich Uppery's side lady too, and they're like, hi, we're looking for Jenny White, and she's like, I don't recognize that name.

I've lived here twenty years. I don't know Jenny White. And then a man.

Starts to leave the brownstone and she goes, oh, hi, Frank, see you tonight around six, and she kisses this guy on the cheek. He wordlessly leaves, and then the cops turn to leave and she shuts the door. Benson thinks this is a dead end. She's like, all right, here's what we gotta do. And then Stabler goes, hold on a second. He clocks a lady with a guy about to enter this brownstone. Then, but then the girl goes, you want to get a cup of coffee?

And the guy she's with goes, I guess sure.

So as soon as they see the car, as soon as she sees the cops is when she starts this little coffee charade and nothing gets by eagle eyed Stabler, he's like, this place is a brothel. So he heads back up to a couple steps. They knock on the door. She comes back and she's like, you're still here, and they're like yeah, and we're ready for the truth. Now, bitch, tell us where Jenny White is or we're gonna have Vice tear this place apart. And this woman like doesn't

Are rich people committed to bonkers? Names?

Like am I missing something? You just get wealth and then you name someone Angus. I don't get it.

I mean, I have a friend whose kid is named Angus, but she's Scottish. I think it's like part of their heritage. But like, yeah, Rochester, just anything ending in Chester, Winchester, Rochester like, you know, all we talk about the girls' names and they are cute, but like, what's what's Tinsley's sister Dinsdale. Oh, Tinsley's sister Darby Darby. I mean, and those are southern, those are southern, well, the Northern Wealth.

It's like, it's like, I don't know what's saying.

I rewatched the movie Misery, and Bunny McDougall was in the movie, and I remember that I saw your story. I love Also, none of you have ever seen the movie Misery.

It really holds up.

It's increasible, it's amazing, it's terrifying.

It is well because I recently had an audition that I did not nail. I did not get it, but it was supposed to be a Misery type character.

And watching her nail it, I was like, oh, this is beyond my so good that it's wild.

But alay back to anyway, Jenny Way is now married.

To Angus Rochester and Jenny White is such a trash name, like that is you know that's a bad teen Jenny White.

Yeah, Jenny, why could be anything to me?

It could be popular girl, trash, It's very blank slate. But she the woman goes she probably doesn't want to talk about the past that much now that she's you know, living her pretty woman fantasy, like I you know whatever. So now they go stop Jenny White in the street and they're like Jennifer White and she's like, I'm sorry, my name's Rochester now, and uh yeah, she's full a pretty woman like walking down the street with a friend

Done.

She was pushed, So Benson and Stabler do some body to body role play that I'm sure made a lot of you very horny when you watched it, where it's like and then I push and then you put, and like they're doing a little bit of role play in front of Reuben, and then they decide that Carmen did not die by suicide, it was murder because they figured it all out there.

They've done the physics, they've done.

The cosplay da Dad, So now they've got to sell Daddy Kraigan. And he's like, you guys have no evidence of who might have done this, but they know it's Drew. They're like, this is not the first rich kid who thinks he can treat women how he wants, and there could be other victims who were bought off.

We don't know. Swears he can prove it s Drew.

But Craigan is like, okay, first start with how he ran a red light in Connecticut at the time of the murder.

And Stabler's like, well, there's a hat covering half his face.

And Craigan is like, well, hey, Munch, is there some work you could be doing, even though Munch.

Is obviously doing work.

He's like looking at black and white footage, not just like watching television. And he's like, well, I was looking at earlier footage, because we were just looking at the footage of Carmen going into the penthouse. But there's all this earlier footage, and earlier I can see. Look at the clock. There's a place on the tape where the clock jumps forward ten seconds and it looks like a piece of the tape was edited out. So the doorman from the Lamberley building said that a guy from security

Oh did I already talk about Bieber on this podcast in general, I don't even know.

I saw a clip.

So like kid Laroi is on stage singing and then like Bieber's off to the side on the railing of the stairs to get onto the stage, but he's blacked out drunk, so he's super drunk, but he's singing voice of an angel. I am a stand forever, I am a bieberhead. Like he sounded so good, hitting every note, bent over, blackout drunk on a railing, and like the kid Laroi is like kind of laughing at him. But like even when he's singing, I forgot the words like sounds incredible.

Wow, I'm a believer. Thank you, Yeah, I'm a believer. I mean I love this show. Uh, the song what is it?

Love?

Yourself.

Oh yeah, there's a bunch I like. I like, sorry, I do too. I just kind of was like whatever, I like him.

But watching this, like just someone's cell phone video of him singing like an angel.

Well, you know he was found like he can play a bunch of different instruments, like I do think he was found by school because he is like a musical kind of like wonder Kid.

You know, no, he is.

Well, there's like a video circulating on Instagram where it's a like a Diane Sawyer type but I've never heard of her. And she's like, so people say, you're just a marketing thing, and you're just a YouTube marketing a product of marketing.

What do you think? And he's just like thirteen.

The comments are like, why are you beefing with a thirteen year old boy?

But he goes, I don't know.

I mean, it's really cool that I live in this tiny town in Ontario and was able to get discovered and am now like a huge star. It gives hope to other kids that live everywhere. And then she names some other She goes, well, what about this person. He's from your town and he's a newscaster, and he goes, yeah, he's Canadian.

No one in Germany knows who he is. Don't you think, how are you letting a thirteen year old fucking school you so hard? Lady?

And then she didn't answer it, and he goes do you think that? And like he like, yeah, he schools her, he schools her. But it's like, why are you against this child? But it's how they treated Britney Spears and all young performers for yea. Yeah, just mad for no reason at these talented young kids.

Yeah.

No, I don't think anyone can really deny that Justin Bieber has musical talent. But if you want to not like him because of his attitude or swagger or whatever, that's you know, do you But musically he's very talented.

Yeah.

So if you want to see this video of him drunk, I watched him maybe three four times in a row.

Ooh okay, I loved it. I'll check it out so away. Wait.

Wait, that's where that's where we are, that's the that's the that's the live hair check for the day.

It is a swoop.

Okay for a second, I was like, how did we get here? Yeah? Hair aaking.

I put it in as a fully out of nowhere. Note so now back to the case. Stabler is like, Drew must have had help with this case because, like with this cover up, because there's no way that he would have been able to leave no trace of himself on this balcony, but make sure that Carmen's prints are still there. So then Finn appears out of nowhere with a mic drop and goes, yeah, here's how he did it. Guess which cop interviewed Jenny White five years ago dot

Grandma's getting worked up.

No, he was with us out here, tell them Drew, and he asks if there they can do this somewhere else. His grandma is not well, so then Stabler brings up Jenny White, and Grandma's like got the look of recognition on her face and she goes, I knew this would come out eventually.

I told you, I told your father. He wouldn't listen.

She said she thought Drew should take his punishment for hurting Jenny, and she admits that he did assault her and she wanted to protect him, so she did send him to Paris, but she insisted he get help, and she sent him to six months in a psych hospital. He was a child then, he's a grown up now. So I love how this is all the Jenny White thing is happening all just I believe out of the statute of limitations for this time because it's five years later.

So she tells them.

Give him a test. Go ahead, give Drew a lie. Detect your tests, like blah blah, blah, blah blah. And they're like, so if you think that Drew didn't kill Carmen, who did? And Drew goes Tom Payson. He was obsessed with Carmen and he wasn't in Connecticut with the rest of the family Saturday night. So they're just throwing their guy, paysin under the bus. Here cut to Huang giving drew the polygraph, and he's asking him some pretest questions about

And so he does it. He does it, He does it.

The guy lies and then he shows him look, the machine clearly registers the lie. So I don't know why we always go through this charade with the light. The light detectors when they're not admissible and people can learn how to beat them, but here we are.

It takes some for fun. We should organize something. I would love to take one. I would love to see it. If I could control my breath and beat it. I bet I can. Oh, I actually have taken I don't know why I pretended I did it. You haven't. You've taken one. I forgot. It just came to me.

The Lucas brothers did like a fun little show at Montreal one year just for laughs, where they attached their friends to lie detectors and ask funny questions. So I did do that, but I'm not really They were just like have.

You been to jail?

And I was like yeah, Like like.

Have you ever done that?

I'm like, sure have Yeah, you had no intent him to on a comedy show. We got to try to get on there and like beat it. But what they have to ask us about a crime we really committed. So first we have to commit a crime and then we got to do it.

Yeah, or maybe secrets like I wonder, but I would love to do maybe some you know, like the Vanity fair Lie detector tests.

Yeah, interesting, we should, we should. Let's look into it. We'll get our staff on it. Getting that would be us. So now the test, the light detector's test really starts after the little pre questions, and he admits to raping Jenny White but denies raping or killing Carmen. So we cut to the Huang debrief after the test. He says, look at the look at the print out, drew past the polygraph.

But Huang thinks he's lying.

He's like, I think he used countermeasures to manipulate his body's response. He ramped up his body's response to the control questions so he could cost through the other ones. He beat the machine, and that's why he wanted to take the test so bad, because he knew that he could beat it.

So I wonder who that's well, that's what they teach at private school. That's sad. They teach you polygraph beating.

At college prep, all boys, rich kids schools. They got to teach them about the lighte detectors.

Yes, they teach them all of the different ways that you can avoid getting arrested or having any consequences for your actions. I love that a little lighte detector class Thin and Munch roll in to say that Paysin denies murdering Carmen, but will not die and Drew, even though his whole family is just drop kicking this guy under the bus so hard. So just when they think they've got nothing, they get another magical call from CSU.

This is like the.

Fourth time this episode where it's like, we got nothing. Bring on the phone rings and they get some more information talking to some nerdy tech now who is different from Reuben who found some nice high end swede in the heel of Carmen's shoe. So this swede was not made in the us. It was probably made in one of the Baltic states. And if the purp has the jacket, this nerd says he can match it. So now they

Full heel hole in it.

They arrest Drew on the spot and as they bring him out of the as they wheel him out, Grammy looks horrified. So now we're at the top of act four. The Lamberley lawyer named Lorna Scary blows into Alex Cabot's office offering to make a deal. She goes, man two five years in a psych institution, and Cabot's like, lol, he brutally murdered someone. How about murder two twenty five years in regular prison. Scary's like, Scary, Scary, I can't,

He never mentioned anything about this.

So now at the trial, Grandma Lamb Lamb is on the stand explaining that Drew's childhood was hard because excellence was expected and when he failed, he was punished by his father. His mother, Grace, tried to protect him, but she was terrified of Douglas. She turned to alcohol and that's why she's at a clinic in Bermuda. Finally we understand, like where the mother went. Drew hasn't seen her since, so she fled her child and life and is just

Anything he told Huang is out.

So Cabot regroups and goes, well, did Douglas teach Drew how to rape?

Too?

And Grandma Lamberley says he taught Drew how to abuse women. Drew's mom will testify to that, and Cabot's like, well, she's in Bermuda, so any other examples, and she says he taught Drew to think that women could be bought. Alex says, well, so does the advertising industry, like he must he learned how to do with all of this on his own, and she says no, Douglas started taking drud to visit sex workers when he was thirteen and told him that you buy a woman and you can

It's like, yeah, I'm sure he's very rich.

I'm sure he like somehow vetted her and decided it was worth the risk of marrying a former sex worker when you're a wealthy Manhattan person. So now they're very happy, like Richard, you're and Julia roberts. But Olivia says to Angus, maybe you don't know the whole story, and she goes and he Angus goes, I'm her husband.

Try me.

So now they're both at the precinct and Jenny is spilling all the promenade details.

She says Drew needed it. He bought her address, he picked up in his car. For a while, it just felt like a regular prom date.

He pulled her into a room at the prom started to have sex with her, which she went along with because she was a sex worker at the time. But suddenly he slapped her and says, I'm not paying you to enjoy it, bitch. He ripped her dress, hit her again and again, she said, and raped her and a couple of the other girls at the brothels said he would also hit them back, but he was easier to handle. Then he was only thirteen or fourteen. Oof, So at the prom he was like sixteen or seventeen, And this

We can never sing on this podcast?

But we forgot that we don't have to sing copywritten music.

We can sing on We can make up songs.

Yes, yeah, we can become composers. Correct, yeah, that's true. We can make up little songs. I will think of one for next time. So back at trial, Drew is on the stand. It's it's it's baby boy, tiger beats time to get on the stand. He told Carmen it was over. She got upset, ran to the balcony, screamed at him, hit her, He snapped, he saw red. He pushed her against the railing and he says he just pushed her and pushed her until she fell. He says he did not mean to kill her, and Cabot says,

And he's like, uh, I told you my dad did it.

And Cabot's like, I actually have Affi davits from the school and the teacher who brought you to the er after you broke it that said that all confirmed that you broke it while playing hockey, and they remember because they were worried that your parents would sue the school. So maybe the flip side of the privileges that people remember things about you because there were your parents are going to ruin their lives. He's like, no, no, no, it was my dad. By the way, where the fuck

She stands up, she's.

Yelling that's enough, that's enough, and then she does this little old lady moan where she's like oh, and she falls down. Drew goes totally postal. He tries to attack Cabot. He goes, look, well you did, you, bitch. You're gonna pay for this. I promise you over and over again, saying you're gonna pay for this.

You're gonna pay for this.

So now the whole jury, the whole courtroom has seen this kid unprovoked go completely fucking crazy and sort of negate the defense that you know he had that he has to be provoked with violence. So in the final scene, Douglas is back, I guess from whatever little trip he was on, not defending himself, againt Ben's being a brutalizer. He leads Benson in to see his mother. She's in a wheelchair, and Benson's like, are you ready for jail, mama?

We'll be right back after these messages.

All right, I hope you thoroughly enjoyed our commercials.

So this is based on two crimes.

So the first one is more of like rich rich, rich family vibes, and the second one is cops and spinning women into stupid, dumb whores that deserved it, you know, so in doing a bad job. So those are the two journeys we will be going on. One you guys, you will know the person. The second one it's in Japan, so I don't think you'll know anything.

And let's go.

So the first case we're going to cover is the William Kennedy Smith rape allegations. And since it's the Kennedy family, I think I have to continue saying allegations and alleged because they seem litigious.

Okay, So, but it was fun in some.

Of the articles to see Carol Raswell, she's like on the board of this guy's foundation. So interesting, it was nice. The housewives are everywhere people, so yes, it's this Kennedy family. And so this William Kennedy Smith dude, he is the nephew of President John F. Kennedy and Senators Robert F. Kennedy and Ted Kennedy. And he's the child of former Ambassador to Ireland Jean Kennedy Smith, who is the second

Was he held accountable?

Hell?

No, Okay, he was acquitted.

So Kennedy Smith was a thirty year old medical student at Georgetown University, and he was accused of sexually assaulting a twenty nine year old Florida woman in the early hours of March thirtieth, nineteen ninety one, at the Kennedy family's Palm Beach compound. The story is that he went out the night of March twenty ninth out in Palm Beach with his uncle, Senator Ted Kennedy and cousin Patrick Kennedy on Easter weekend. So they ended up at a night's spot called au bar ubar au.

Well you would say o bar, but it's because it's French, it's au yeah, o bar.

Yeah okay, And that's where he met his accuser. So the woman said that he identified himself as William Smith and said, oh, this is my uncle Ted and they're partying. And then it wasn't until later that she realized, oh fuck, that's Senator Ted Kennedy. So he brought her back to the compound and they.

By the way, like only rich people have compounds, Like you can be like kind of broke and have like your front house and maybe like your back farm and then maybe like your side area where like your cousin lives and no one's ever like, oh yeah the compound over on the Jennings farm, Like it's only rich people have fucking compounds. Well, yeah, how can a poor person have one? Well, because it really all a compound is is just like a bunch of buildings that your family owns.

But I think other people have that kind of setup. We just don't call it that.

Yeah, like my big fat Greek wedding like they all have on a block or something, the.

Greek compound or like you could argue that the guy for making a murderer. He lived near his parents. They all live near a trash yard. Like that's a compound. You're right, but you would never say the making of a murderer compound. Oh so yeah, like burning tires. So they went on a walk on the beach, during which time he allegedly tackled and raped her. She said she began to leave and started to walk away and was attacked. She tried to run to the pool area and that's

Of course, he said, lawyer lawyered up. He did not make any statements, any chats with the cops. After the report was made public, the lawyer for the accuser charge that Smith had hired private investigators to intimidate a material witness. Smith and his attorneys of course denied this. They also had nine months to come up with a story and answer for everything. So like the court case didn't happen n till December, and this happened in March. And so

You know.

So the rape trial.

Begins December second, nineteen ninety one. December second is Britney Spears's birthday and World Aid's Day, and I'll remember that forever.

So the judge of this case was Judge Mary E.

Lupoh, and she barred prosecutors from presenting testimony from three other women who claimed Smith had assaulted them. So yeah, that sucks. So three other people had accused him. They

They were not nervous.

It's no secret that prosecutors that work from the district attorney like, they're not as good as the defense team that a Kennedy could hire, and so that was a big issue in this too. So the prosecutor was Moira lash and she was a star.

In her office and this is very SVU.

We always say this isn't real, but she had nearly one hundred percent track record for convictions and in nineteen eighty seven she was named Prosecutor of the Year.

So damn yeah yeah right yeah.

Smith had Roy Black and he was known in Miami legal circles as the Professor and you know, he just defends murderers and drug traffickers. So a real linel went Granger. This is That's who I'm imagining and all of this. For example, one time he defended like this is how good of a lawyer he is. One time he defended a woman who was charged of drowning her three year old son, and he succeeded in keeping the jury, like keeping the jury from the fact that her other children

So Black also had.

A team of three other lawyers, so he had like a team of four lawyers. Smith was also like Black took a really low rate. So you only charged two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this, and it's just to get publicity. And I guess that's like really cheap for like a Kennedy family.

But don't worry. They still spent tons of money.

Smith was able to hire five private investigators who worked for months digging up info on the victim, her friends that she called that night after the incident, like full on investigat.

Like I don't understand how this.

Is even legal or real or like, yeah, aren't you supposed to be like a quick swift trial, Like it's so fucked. Also lash like you know, she's a woman, so that adds probably to it.

But very unliked.

She was a very unliked, not friendly nobody was rooting for her. She was getting daily bad reviews in the newspaper and on television about her somber style, never playing it up to the jury and never deviating from her pre written questions. And they called, you know, as I said, she's a woman. They called her shrill often and casey Novak vibes.

She also went after the judge.

She tried to get her to recuse herself because she was prejudiced in favor of the defense. The motion was denied and it was catastrophic, like it was a big error.

But she still believes that.

There was prejudice and this judge shouldn't have done it because also her co counsul Ellen Roberts, Ellen Roberts husband and the judge's husband and gave litigation against one another over money.

Oh my god, Yeah, you have to recuse yourself. You're like personally involved. Yeah, it's crazy.

But the victim later said that she does not feel any hatred towards Lash and she didn't let her down at all. She admired her and was so proud of the work she did, and they formed a real bond and she was like everyone kept calling her like ice queen. But the night the verdict came out, she came over. We cried and hugged, and I know she did her best. She said, I strongly believe that Judge Lupo couldn't stand her.

So she's taken selfies with the Kennedy so she's a different kind of person.

I remember this.

I remember the blue the blue bubble over the face.

You do. I remember her talking with the blue bubble.

Whoa yeah, because this trial was when I was like twelve, probably did.

When was the trial in ninety two, ninety one, oh ninety one, I was eleven, but I remember it being on.

Damn yeah. Okay, So the trial lasted ten days quick. The two sides though called forty five witnesses, and when the woman took the stand, she this is how she described things on the stand. She said that she felt perfectly safe because it was the Kennedy home. There was a senator there, so she assumed there would be really good security. And then she started weeping on the stand when she was describing the attack, and Vanity Fair reported

She she, she, That's what it did.

But like the whole time, the victim was speaking from a place of violence, and he just talked about it like it was sex. December eleventh, the jury deliberated for seventy seven minutes.

That's it.

And it's a six member jury and that's a Florida thing. But yeah, like I guess for felony cases Florida.

It's six Oh okay, yeah.

Honestly, like, this was so fast that the Kennedy's left court and just got to their compound as they were asked back to court. So it was so quick, and he was acquitted on all charges, which included second degree sexual battery and misdemeanor battery. Fun fact, one of the lead defense attorneys, Roy Black, who I keep talking about,

What, first of all, did anybody ever consider, like what this woman's motivation would be for doing this? Because this isn't a civil trial, Like she's not trying to get money out of the Kennedy's right now.

This is a criminal trial.

She knows that she's gonna have to put herself through all this bullshit, that they have so much money, they're gonna dig up her whole fucking past. They're gonna go after her friends everything, Like if she unbuttoned his pants and had sex with it, Like, what is it She's so remorseful that she had drunk sex with someone that she's willing to go through in nine months of pre trial trauma.

I mean, it's just so, what's her motivation to make this up? Oh?

It's I mean, it's ridiculous, the spin, the patriarchy. I don't know, I sound like a broken record. It's a nightmare. After the verdict was read and after the judge gave a heads up before it was read that she said that there should be no public expression, like she would not tolerate any of it. But he smiled, jumped up and hugged everyone and could not stop grinning. And it's

Why if they're weeping. They obviously believed her a little bit.

I know a lot of the stuff I've read about this was like it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt, And with these cases, I guess it's just like hard to have it.

It's just see and he said, she said, without like a videotape of it happening.

Yeah, well, you're gonna love our next crime.

So and right after he gave the statement, he ran out, like right after the verdict. He ran out, gave a statement, flashing camera lights, media waiting outside, hundreds of people chanting his name, Willie, Willie, applauding him. So one of the attorneys who brought forth the charges told reporters, So, his name is David Roth, he told reporters. According to the Washington Post, and we believe this. The jury has spoken. However,

Roy Black afterwards went out a press tour.

He's a fucking ass, he told he talked to USA today and what he said about Smith was in quotes. The jury got a look at him, they saw he was articulate, well spoken, the antithesis of a rapist, Like what are you talking about?

Like every rapist looks like the boogeyman, Like this is insane.

It's it's insane, But it's the nineties, and you know, we just covered a thing where like a lesbian's kid was taken from her, you know, like this isn't bullshit.

It's just wild that the nineties we were alive in the nineties, Like, it's just so weird that the nineties were so bad, like and they're they're very recent.

Yeah, and so he kept talking about the woman, and he was referring to her as troubled, disturbed, mentally unstable, and it's like you already won.

What are you doing?

Like I don't get it, And yeah, the rich just stay rich. And guess what the defense applied for the state of Florida to assume some of Smith's legal fees, like he can't afford it.

Yeah, So I hope all those people that were outside yelling Willy Willy willy are excited that their tax payer monies are going towards this alleged rapist.

So the woman.

Quoted to the Post said, despite the enormous price I have endured, I do not for one moment regret the course of action I have pursued.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just like she didn't stand to gain really anything from this. And I'm I mean, I'm glad that she probably made it a little bit easier for the next person to take a case like this to trial. But if she wasn't reliable, if she was crazy and unstable and all these things that this guy's saying about her, the prosecution would not have opted to prosecute. They would have been like, your case is not reliable, like Barbara and Cabot and them are plenty of times like I

You know, No, that is a very good point. She did later reveal herself. So her name is Patricia Bowman. She's residing in Jupiter, Florida, twenty miles north of Palm Beats, and she came from like money, not obviously Kennedy money in any way.

But it's not like she.

Like you said, was in it to get like a cash scrab or anything like that. Her stepdad, Misster O'Neil's quoted to The Times, this is not about money, this is about justice. Her mom was an executive, Her stepdad had a fortune of ten point three million dollars. Her family lived on an exclusive golf course, and the fought like the father of her child. She's a single mom owned some lumber family, like he was from a lumber family.

That's literally me every single night of my twenties and half of my thirties. Like what being out til three am? You're out til three am all the time?

Yeah, but I never thought of it like she just said it so concisely, where it's like, what was she doing?

And why is it ever? Like what is he doing?

We?

Yeah, why he's probably looking for people to rape? Why is that never turned around? Like I'd never seen it so clearly to me at least, So Vanity Fair went to speak to Patricia Bowman in Jupiter, Florida, three days after the verdict. She was asked why she decided to go public after being so private for you know, the whole time. She said she only agreed to two interviews, Vanity Fair and Diane swear Class Act.

She responded that she had.

To because mister Black was saying she was nuts and using her name on TV, so like she had to come forward and be like, I'm not a lunatic.

Hello, and she's a little bit of a Benson.

And she said, in quote to Vanity Fair, besides, I felt the need to get out there and urge victims to prosecute because it's part of the healing process. The reporter said that during Bowman's time on the stand, a woman reporter sitting next to them whispered in their ear. If I were ever raped, I'd never report it. So it's like the opposite. Like we were talking about how like this might encourage people to come forward, but this actually does the opposite when you like you have so

Mm.

Yeah.

She was asked how she felt when the verdict was read, and she said this in quotes. I was having so many flashbacks when he had me in that little room and I told him that he raped me, and he looked at me the calmest, smuggest most arrogant man, and he said, no one will believe you. And the jury came in and said not guilty. And I was right back in that room with the man telling me no one would believe me.

It's like she didn't invent that story. Like, I don't know, that's just like people.

I don't know. Because also.

If I got to go back to the Kennedy compound, I would try to like have a good time, Like I would try to get an invite back, you.

Know what I mean?

Ye you, I don't know why you would be like And it just does make sense, Yeah, that she would that she would completely fabricate this whole thing.

Yeah, this makes sense to me.

He's a doctor, he's living a rich ass life like nothing ever happened to him, but rape accusations come pretty regularly in his life. So CBS News reported that he was being sued in a civil court by a former personal assistant who alleged that he raped her in nineteen ninety nine. He said these claims were outrageous, untrue, and without merit, and it's like, I mean, they're not that outrageous. He blames that his family and personal history is the

It's fucked.

It's so fucked because if you do happen to get to court with one of these guys then and then they get off, like then they just use the high profile case as something to hide behind. Oh well, she's coming after me now because that last woman accused me and now she thinks she's going to get famous from it and she's gonna get money from it and blah blah blah. So it's like letting these guys off like

Trial and your family killed Marilyn Monroe. Like, I don't trust any of you. Go fuck all of you. You deserve all of them except Carol Livesville right. Well, and but she married in that's so different.

Yeah, but they also who's the guy.

That didn't they like, drunk driving accident kill a person.

Isn't that one of the Kennedys.

Too, Yeah, one of them, the Ted Kennedy, the senator that was with his son that night got into a car accident and left a woman in the car, and I think he I think she died. Let me, oh my god, let me look up Ted Kennedy's. Yeah, sorry, she drowned. The woman drowned. Ted Kennedy, he is, he drove his car off a bridge and like went to go save himself and let this woman drown in the car. It's called it was that chap equittic, So it's always called chap equittic.

Yeah, fuck the Kennedy's.

All right, let's go no offense if any of our listeners are Kennedy's, but I doubt it.

So this next.

Case is the shiory E new case, and this is a case about her twenty year old twenty one year old. Okay, I do have to preface you will be more mad listening to this than you've ever been mad. And this is saying a lot considering everything that we've uncovered through our research. My god, Okay, it is so appalling that it seems fake, that it cannot be real.

It is truly insane.

So twenty year old twenty one year old college student was stabbed to death and fucking broad daylight outside near Tokyo. So basically what happened was she caught the wrong guy's attention one day and nobody would help her and she lost her life. The stabbing happened a little before one pm on the afternoon of October twenty sixth, nineteen ninety nine. She was stabbed in the chest while entering a train

They accepted eighteen.

Million yen or one hundred and seventy five thousand US to kill Shiori. They watched her for a few months, figuring out her schedule to and from school, the common areas she visited. And so when Shiori was at the train station, she was grabbing her bike and was about to head to university when she was approached, stabbed in her side and then fatally stabbed in her heart. And like I said, you know, people came to help, called for help, but she died on the way to the hospital.

This dude's name.

Was Kazu Kazuhitu Komatsu, and she met him at a game center, which is like an arcade her and her friends were trying to put coins into a photo booth machine, but it wasn't working, and twenty six year old Komatsu came over and asked if he could help her and started to flirt. They went to karaoke. They exchanged numbers. Truly like a situation that could happen to anyone. You just like, meet someone cute and you vibe, so they messaged. They went on some dates, but then things got weird.

They felt this was.

Her fault by hurting the man's feelings and by cutting off their relationship and exploiting him by accepting his gifts. So on June twenty first, she took all the gifts and money she received from him and mailed it back to him in hopes that that would stop him. July thirteenth, him his brother and their friends made posters of her face, calling her a gold digger, slut prostitute with all of her personal information, and posted it on telephone polls around

Oh my god, I'm getting very very sweaty with anger.

A few weeks after this, the police went to their house, but it was to convince her to drop the complaint and not help in any way. But the family refused, so the cops then falsified the report and changed the complaint about an official complaint into just the report of an incident, therefore not requiring any official outcome.

So this led to her brutal murder.

So this crime took place four months after Enu had complained to police that she was stalked by her boyfriend after she broke up, the cops ignored her police for help, and then she was fucking murdered. After she was dead, the cops went on a smear campaign and portrayed her as a gold digging slut and implied that the attack was her fault. Legit, the cops covered up the details and blamed the victim, and then the media ran with

Can't they just listen and do their job?

So pop singer Mayu Tumita was stabbed more than twenty times by a male fan in May twenty sixteen. He had posted more than three hundred public messages to her like threatening her life, and the cops declined to act because it was social media and not that serious. She did survive the stabbing, thank god. Yeah, so hopefully more laws will continue to happen since cops are failures, and it still appears that only about ten percent of complaints filed actually results in official police action.

Oh God, that one is tough.

It is tough, and obviously, like I'm not in Japan and do not know much about the Japanese. I mean, I was in a kabuki play, but I don't know much about the Japanese culture. Like the sources I was using, and I hope they're all credible and good and I did justice to this story.

We do have some listening in Japan because people wrote us back after another ca that we the one about the young girl that was assaulted by the the American officers over in Japan. A bunch of people wrote into us on Instagram. So if you live in Japan, let us know if this case is still talked about.

Or like you were around when this was happening, and so.

You know, with research, you just kind of see what what articles you get first. So when I first saw it, it was like these these cops got in trouble and went to jail.

So I was like, oh, fuck, yeah, Japan knows what's up.

And then it was like oh uh. And then I was reading comments because I am a sicko to a lot of the articles, and they, like so many comments are still victim blaming. They're like he was part he was part of the yakuza. That's on you, you dumb bitch, Like you should have known not to date, Like it's like this and like the comments were doing the thing that had caused her death. And I guess cops are the same everywhere, like they don't want yeah.

But like in the USA, this happen.

Shit happens all the time, and the cops were like, how could we have known? And they don't go to jail. So at least Japan sent these guys to jail.

Yeah, But and then I don't, like, I don't know if they're better at stuff or not, because it still seems like they don't want their percentages going down.

I don't know, but it's yeah.

So it's just like I thought to conclude that one because there are no other episodes based on it, and it's I think it's like an important case to talk about but also just like the smearing and like the cops kind of not doing anything about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

All right, Well, we're gonna be right back with a great interview, guys, to cleanse your palate from all this darkness. Don't go anywhere, guys. Our guest today is a TV legend. She's probably best known for her role as the matriarch Olivia Walton in the Waltons Award winning role play, and you can currently see her portray Jeffrey Dahmer's grandmother Katherine Dahmer on Netflix's Dahmer and you know her today as

Yeah, we love this episode. We always love when there's super rich people on us.

You're pearls for being hethens.

Yes, yes, we love a super rich lady turned villain, and they do that on this show a lot. And you're like a classic episode of this, like you're.

To play actually, but it was a pretty sordid episode.

Yes, yeah, I was gonna ask you, like, I mean, you've played all different kinds of parts, is it is it extra fun to play a villain? I mean, I think from the Waltons you were sort of like a wholesome character, right, You weren't a villainous at all.

No.

I used to fight with some Earl Hamda, the creator of the show, and say, give her, make her make a mistake once in a while. Everybody's going to hate her if she's just so wonderful every minute. So he'd say, like what, and I'd say, well, have her scold the wrong child, have her make a mistake, whatever, but give her something, so he would he'd work at it.

Yeah, So it was a collaborative set.

Yes, it was wonderful. Yeah, we were a little arrogant. I think sometimes we would say, oh, my character would never say that.

You know, well, you won a bunch of Emmys for that. Do you look back on those nights fondly?

Oh? Yeah, it's very exciting, and especially the first one because I had no idea I was going to win, so I was just enjoying the whole. It was very new for my kids and me, and they sent a limo and my gosh, my son and my son with my date. So we here we are in the limo. We drove around the neighborhood, just waving at all the kids, and then, you know, then we went and we were just having a good time. And when they mentioned my name, I can still remember my son's eyes were like plates

Wow. How old was your son at the time.

I think he was maybe fifteen you he was around fourteen or fifteen.

Did any of your kids like follow in your footsteps into the acting world or the niceness?

My youngest son did a couple of Omen one and two ooh, and he's just never wanted to be an actor, but he's in advertising, so we sort of in the business, but not as an actor.

So with this episode, this might be too specific of a question since this was twenty years ago, but do you remember we're shooting this episode in the penthouse with the beautiful views?

No?

No, well it looked Do you remember any of your outfits?

You really had a lot of gorgeous, like rich Upper east Side lady outfits.

No, I my husband, but bless him, my wonderful husband. Read a synopsis of it just to help me refresh myself as to what the show was about. I mean, I sort of generally know what about Yeah, you know, so long ago, twenty years ago. So it wasn't my fondest role. But sometimes it is a little fun to play somebody, to try to find in a character that you don't really respect or like, but to try to find where their thinking is or what motivates them as

Yeah, we've heard that from a lot of We've interviewed a lot of people that are that usually play sort of comedians or nice guys, nice gals, but then they come on this show and they've got this sort of like evil streak, and that's interesting. A lot of them have expressed the same thought that, you know, finding like your commonality with this person you don't like is is interesting.

Yeah.

Well, one actor we talked to he didn't because he was so in the character he didn't realize how bad he really was.

And then when he watched it. He was like, oh really, yeah.

Yeah, No, you had huge moments. You had a big fainting scene in the courtroom. You're also dragged out arrested in handcuffs in a wheelchair by the detectives.

You had like really fun moments.

So I don't remember any I remember being arrested and kind of resisting. That's about how I can remember, to tell you the truth.

I mean, you've had such an incredible career where you know, on so many shows, I can imagine sometimes it blurs together.

I have been there, very lucky.

Having been in this business for like, you know, fifty years or so, do you find are there things? I mean, obviously things have changed. Are there changes that you think are for the better? Are there things you wish hadn't changed?

I've always found, you know, Hollywood has a reputation, but I've never been in that kind of Hollywood groove. I had my kids, so it was a job. I'd go do my job and come home to do my job as a mom. So I've never been part of the quote scene here. But it's been very good to me and I'm very grateful for it. So I'm glad. I'm not part of the scene. Frankly, that scene, if you know what I mean. Yeah, it's been very good to me. I'm so lucky. I came down here in a little

Yeah, wow, I love that.

It was a Volkswagen bug you and then you were just in this. You were just in Dahmer on Netflix, which was like one of Netflix's biggest hits of the year.

Yes, I was, and that was kind of fun too. He's a lovely guy, Evan Peters, lovely person and a very good actor. And our scenes were just Granny loves her grandson and his No, how could you not know your grandson is chopping up buddies in your basement? I find that a little mark swallow. But apparently she was in real denial, I guess no.

And did you enjoy working with Ryan Murphy?

I didn't see much of him, but I do think he's a genius.

And Kara is actually from Connecticut. Did you grow up on a farm in Connecticut?

I did. It was a small farm. It was twenty one acres, and I melt three goats every morning and every night. And I cleaned the rabbit hutches and fed the rabbits and fed the chickens. I didn't clean out the chicken hutches, but I did the rabbit hutches. And I fed the pigs, and we had two pigs. We had two horses. I didn't do the horses. They scared me, but I did do the goats. And I had a little kid of my own. Her sister had somehow strangled in the hay rack, and so she was I was convinced.

Somehow getting to.

The bar and turning the light on, feeling the animals, the warmth of the animals and the smell which was pungent because we had a buck in with the doze and they give off a really strong odor. But I didn't mind. I liked it.

Where was the farm in Kennticut?

In Connecticut was West Norwalk, Oh, which is sort of near near Westport and Garrett.

Uh.

Yeah, I grew up in u Canaan.

Oh you did in u Canaan. I used to go to ballet school in ukana Oh. Really, it's really pretty. We're lucky, aren't we?

Yeah? And I'm also the oldest of six children, are you really? Yeah?

A mix of boys and girls.

Yes, yes, two girls, four boys. Oh okay, yeah, but I know you're You're the eldest of six girls, right, all girls?

Yes, and now I have a half brother named Tarquin. Oh, my father married again, and so I have a half brother named tark. I may have a brother.

Yeah.

Do you still have animals in your life?

Not at the moment. I have a cat and our dog just passed away two ago. Yeah, I still miss her. I miss her terribly, and I'm working on my husband to try to get another dog. I'm going to die and then he'll have to take care of her.

Or just have someone gift you a dog. So then like tell someone to just bring it and then there's nothing.

All over the plates dropping there. So I'm sure something's going to turn up on the doorspet sooner or later.

And are you still looking to do more work? Like, are you ready for more TV? After Dahmer?

I love working?

Yeah?

So yeah, working keeps me alive.

Yeah.

Is there a character that you haven't played that you'd like to still play?

I can't think of one. A serial killer? Maybe? Oh no, I haven't. No. I just whatever comes along. I try to find my truth in it and bring that whatever the character is. Yeah.

So you like being on a set?

I do. It's for the most part, I've never had any unpleasant experience, And for the most part, it's like you just meet another family, and it's very intense a bond, very intense bonding for the time that you're shooting or the time that you're working together. And some friends remain friends and some you don't ever see again. But it's a very intense experience.

When you walk onto a set.

Are there ever where you're like, Oh, today's going to be a mess.

Yes, of course they're going to be a mess. It's more like I'm a mess. I had one day it's the only time it's ever happened to me in my life, where I just went blank and they had to send me home. It was mortifying. They were very nice about it, and it never happened again. But for some reason that particular day, I think I hadn't worked in a while, and I was so happy to be on a set that my brain just went off into the ether. I

Oh gosh, I can't believe they sent you home. I'm against that.

Well, they didn't do it in a nasty way. I was just gone. They did the right thing actually, and from that time and there was no problem. But they had to reschedule. I mean, it's a real scramble for them if an actor falls down or something happen or goes up or whatever. But I not get my brain working, and luckily from then on I was fine. But it was horrible. It was just horrible.

I can't imagine.

Yeah, what are outside of the Waltons or where you were, you know, or the nurse where you worked a long time. Are there any sets or shows that you've guessed it on that you really had a great time, or that you were surprised how much fun you had, or any just favorite kind of moments.

I had fun on Scrubs. Oh, she was a great character, and they were very nice, you know, again, very professional. You don't become bosom buddies or anything, but they were very professional, very welcoming, and I had fun playing that character. It usually has to do with the character i'm playing, and she was a wonderful character.

Who did you play on scrabs. What was the character I played?

I can't remember her name, but I played a woman who was dying of cancer. But the writing was so fabulous that she had so much personality and joy of living that she was just a fun character to play.

Amazing fun show. I gotta bitch that I want to watch it.

And then our other classic question we like to ask is what are your go to craft service snacks.

When you're on set?

Anything sweet, I guess, but I didn't really like.

To eat while I was working, so yeah, I mean, it always touched me that the craft service go out of their way to try to make the actors happy, and so so.

As well the props who were in charge of the food for the Weltons. When we were all sitting around the table, that was grows. That was truly gross. If you ever watched the show, you'll see that I never ever ate. I fiddled with food on my plate, or I lifted a fork almost to my mouth, but I never ate because everything would get spooned out on the plates, all of our plates, and then we would get spooned back into the serving bowl.

Oh gosh, spooned out on.

The plates again, and you know, by the sixtieth take. There was no way I was going to put that into my mouth. Oh. I never ate on the Waltons in eight years. I never actually put food in my mouth. Ralph, on the other hand, would eat with relish and chip up and swallow and enjoy. Is hmmm not me. No.

Do you still do events for autographs and stuff?

I do?

Yeah, wow, I think this is the last one. Though. It wears me out because you're trying very hard to be present in every moment that you make a connection with somebody. So I try to be buried there, you know, if you will look into somebody's eyes and really appreciate them. And I remember people. I remember their faces sometimes when I when I do it a second time a few years later, I don't remember their names necessarily, but I

That's awesome. Great. Yeah, thank you so much, Michael for taking the time to talk to us, and we hope we keep seeing you on our screens too.

From your mouth, God's he its.

Michael Learning loved her.

Oh my gosh, I just love I love some of the I love it. I love it all legend. Yeah, do you remember this? No, I'm not gonna that's it. She's an eye fund, she has the moment, she has everything.

And she does love an animal.

That was I actually stopped watching Dahmer at the beginning, but maybe I should dip back into uh see her role. I'd like to see her be the be the grandma.

So I've recently I've been getting a lot of shark orca stuff just because I've been you know, the boy got eaten by.

A shark on the cruise. Oh no, I know about the orcas attacking the boats.

Well that's fun, but I guess orcas don't eat people, which is kind of exciting.

Yeah, and I know the funny thing about them being called killer whales because like they don't kill people.

Well this is great because I thought we got to be more scared of them than anyone. And now I'm like, put me in coach, Yeah, let.

Me pat can I want to swim with? When can I go free? Willie? Let's do it.

I want to ride an orca so bad, you know. So there was like, you know, kids graduated high school. They're all eighteen. They go on a trip and they're like at a midnight cruise, like a booze little cruise, and on tape, the boys dare the other one of the boys to jump into the shark infested waters at night.

So and that's when I heard sharks from more Wild.

So anyways, the boy jumps in and then he's scared. They throw in a bowie, but he's swimming away from the bowie and everyone's like the booye. And then there's a shadowy figure to the left and it looks like a shark, and they searched for him for days and the shark, I think the shot.

I thought sharks didn't like attack unless they smelled blood, Like I thought there had to be blood in the water.

No, I mean that is that's like sexy to them, Like when they smell blood, they love it, but they don't need.

Blood to eat. Oh god, but now I'm getting horrible.

Yeah, but we were on this road trip, so we watched the shark thing and that we talked about that for a really long time and just like sharks crocodiles. But I guess Anderson Cooper, my friend, was telling me did a segment where he swam with the crocodiles underwater because they don't attack underwater. But I didn't know Anderson Cooper was such a badass swimming. I didn't know Anderson Cooper was doing nature shit. Yeah wild, so whatever. So I'm getting all of the shark stuff now I can't

Oh my god, in a million years, I would be like not even near the edge. If I knew that I was in sharker or croc infested waters.

No, but I'm so jealous.

There's all these like like seals and little dolphins and or because it's just swim by boats, and it's like, maybe I need to marry a marine biologist.

I need to get out on the walk, go to Hawaii. When we went to Hawaii, there were a million dolphins next to our boat. You could just okay, yeah, that's I could do that too. Yeah. Well, you know, being privilege rich people luck, I was.

Gonna my segue was gonna be speaking of shark infested waters.

Let's get back to the Upper East.

Side of Manhattan, where people let their fucking kids get away with anything. I mean, we're going to do another case about this, I'm sure. But like when I was growing up, there was this kid named Alex Kelly in the town next to mine who committed all, like committed a rape and then his parents like let him escape

Money power, police all evil. Yeah yeah, I mean.

Not either, or I came up with a good either or Okay, do I ready to ask you this why I'm living in a haze.

I'm so sorry.

But would you rather marry a police officer or a marine?

Oh? God, Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

That's like a real that's a tough one. That's a tough one. That's a tough one. I mean, my brother's in the army and now it's like it doesn't really involve his life very much. So I guess marine because that's not like life long like a cop, that's your job, that's forever until you retire. Marine, it's like could be just but I know that there's some guy on Summerhouse Martha's Vineyard that's a bad marine. Right.

Oh, he's just a dork.

Oh I thought he's a guy that was like, isn't there a guy that's like controlling his wife really badly?

It's a marine Summerhouse Martha's Vineyard. Yes, yes, my bad. I was thinking of the original. And he's a chiller marine. He just has no gamer, he's just boring. No, the summer House, Martha's Vineyard Marine. That's what made me flip out with Silas he is disgusting, controlling, an asshole. I hate him, but his wife basically it's like a COVID relationship and now they're out of COVID and he wants to control her. But like she used to be a party girl and like she's a fucking oh she used

Yeah, And she.

Goes to the girl who's like the hottest that everyone wants to fuck, who like is incredible, and she's just like, I just feel bad that you don't have somebody, And it's like no one wants to be with your guy. Because at one point to the hot cool girl Jordan, he goes, I don't want you hanging out with my wife because you're a bad influence and you're a bad girl, and you kept her out till three in.

The morning, and I need to keep my wife safe.

And she goes, your wife isn't an autonomous person should go home whenever, And why would you think that me, as a single person, doesn't care about my own safety. And you're controlling and I didn't realize your wife has a curfew and he goes, she doesn't have a curfew. I just need her home by two, and it's like, so you do have a curfew for your fucking life.

This is all about an hour.

This is all about one hour of being over come on no and so herey fuck really loudly, and so now it's an issue because everyone's like, you need to stop fucking so loud, like the whole house hears you. And so they're trying to fuck Quiet, and he goes, I don't want to fuck you Quiet.

I don't like that.

And I can't have anyone else here, my woman moaned, So we're just not going to be fucking now. And it's like, okay, you can't fuck Quiet because it's like he needs to hear the most.

He's just like a controlling psychopath.

Yeah, well that kind of ties into the controlling psychopath who killed poor Schnori Eno in Japan. And today's so like, I don't know, this leads into what would sister Peg do. This is our weekly segment where we type point you guys to like a resource or a website, a book, a podcast episode something to give you more info about

And I think there's a lot of I don't know.

I feel like there's a lot of signs of stalking that people don't necessarily understand, like unwanted gifts, letters, text damages like damaging your property, stuff that like you're like, oh, I don't know, he just got mad or whatever. Like there's a lot of specifics to stalking that I feel like are good to know. So I wanted to point everybody to the Victim Connect resource center, and they have an article that is all about stock and it details all the signs what you can do if you're a victim,

Yeah, like, I just listen.

You want another fucked up episode, join us next week October Surprise, Season fifteen, episode six. We're obsessed with all of you. Thanks for listening. Give us a a nice little review. If you got the time killing some time in the back of a new.

Why not come see us live and we'll talk to you guys very soon.

Bye bye.

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Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media Take the dime