Pretend w/ Michael Welch

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done.

Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up n SVU podcast. My name, as always is Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

Hello.

Every week we talk about an episode of SVU, the true crime it's based on, and then we talked to a guest from the episode jam Packed Baby Yeah.

And we got a long one this week. This was a long one. We go on some tangents. You guys aren't surprised, so I don't know. It didn't seem long when I listened to it.

On this scam likely there has been an uptick in fucking scam calls.

Em I'm gonna have to start a new email account.

It's non stop and they're sending things where it's like there was a charge on your car click here to confront.

I'm like, this is something that would get me. Thank God. I tricky tricky fishing.

Before I respond to anything, I send the screenshots to my sister because I just been like, is this real or fake. Has my social Security number been compromised?

I just can't tell guess what they're never emailing you about that. They're never emailing you to tell you that your social security has been compromised.

Well, we got to talk about the number one thing, your birthday yesterday.

Oh yeah, before we hopped on with Hannah and on Aalise, I was telling them about how I overdid it a little bit and I had to lie down.

Yeah, you definitely had to lie down, but it was also you were so close, like we were leaving in ten fifteen minutes and you just collapse.

I was like, I just need to lie down for fifteen minutes before we get into a car to go home. But it was amazing. My friends were the best people. They got a car service to pick me up and take up, pick us up, take us to this hotel. We stay it by the pool. We had drinks, we had food. It was amazing. I had the best day. It was so awesome. And then people sent me flowers, people sent me cupcakes. You guys all wrote such lovely

I ordered Joe last night in bed, Yeah, but I didn't get Joy. I didn't get the thousand layer pancake like I normally do. Since we had multiple pizzas at the pool, I was like, I'll stay healthy and get shrimp Wanton's JK.

I actually couldn't finish my pancake, and I was like, why can't I finish this? And then I was like, oh, I ate so much at the pool.

Oh.

I love pool food. I love a club stand. I love pool. Yeah, refreshments. What is it not recession stand? What is that called? Yeah?

Concessions?

I love concessions at the pool or like country club food.

Not that.

Why are they called concessions. I don't know. A concession is when you concede something I don't know. Maybe you're like, I guess I'm eating it's the Yeah, i'd see the dogs and you knew the bartender. The bartender went above and beyond. He was really he was good. The bartender was so cool and he knew we had a friend in common, so he gave us some stuff for free and was really cool.

He gave us some I didn't realize how hammered I was, but I did take I think four shots alone, because a lot of you would.

Drink with me. I don't even know you were taking shots. I cash. That's how That's how out of it I was. But I remember all of our conversations. I just remember at the end being like, I gotta lie down my stomachs. My problem is I was telling them this too. I love mules. I love Moscow mules, I love any kind of like mule, and they just taste like nothing, and

So you know Charlie's Taco's by my house, the food truck, the red one. Yes, yes, so they have a caso taco always on their truck. Right, it's basically a casadilla but in a hard shell. I want that, right, But there's me in the picture and she goes, you want this, met I go, yeah, I'll take that meat.

I'll try it.

And then I google it later and it was donkey.

And I'm not like shading anyone for eating donkeys.

I just do not want to eat a donkey. And I wait a minute, I ate in eat your taco? Hold on, yeah, how was what was it? It was like a word in Spanish and then you googled it and it was like barrio or something.

I was like, yeah, i'll take it. I'll try it. I trust you guys.

And it was good.

But I was like, next time, I'll get it a steak. I don't know, but not that a cow is less worthy of love. You ate, asked me.

I did it.

And I have a friend who's very connected with donkeys, like it's kind of her like power guide.

I don't know, she like when she does.

There's a lot of donkeys in her life and so I could by her and I just am like, I don't want to eat her hero animal.

I mean we talked to Mary Stuart Masterson. She has too many ature donkeys. I can't believe you ate one of them. That's really fund up.

It is, it was fucked up. They should just make sure it says donkey.

No.

They can spare their language if they want, but I will not be getting it again. But I liked the idea of a Chris you know, a case Sadia taco Wage.

Did that story remind you of my story because it was mule? Yeah, okay, just making sure I know how you got there, but you got it right away.

Mule.

It's a donkey horse. I mean, I want to meet a Shetland pony before I die. That's definitely on my goals list. They're in Scotland, you know. Michelle Buteau just met Teddy the Shetland one of the most famous I would know, Michelle Collins.

It was Michelle Collins.

Teddy's always in the UK.

Yeah, I've seen that pony on on the internet.

I miss it in my hometown.

You could like, I think it was like five dollars and you can ride up a little pony three times round in a circle.

You had a little baby Sebastian or whatever it was called little Sebastian.

Wait, have I told my Reddat story on this?

I don't think. Have I told you the red A story?

No?

I do not know Redda personally.

I'm just a fan from Parks and rec And I was doing Benson Ball this comedy festival in DC, and the people who are running the fest they were like, oh my god, we're going to surprise her and we got a miniature horse.

We're going to bring on stage. And I go, I don't think she's going to.

Like that, and they go, no, no, We're going to surprise her with this horse. She's going to love it. I go, I don't think she's going to love it. I would, I would run it by her. I get a sense she's not going to like a whole live animal being brought onto the stage in the middle of her act. But you know, have at it, guys. So I'm watching the show. They bring out this horse. She's not having it. So she's like, Okay, I'm cool. But then they couldn't get rid of the horse because the horse was scared

So and you were right, of course, I was right, Oh my god, that is that's terrible.

But it was a really fun festival. And they brought us on a pirate ship with an open bar. It was like a fun time. They just you know, that was a faux pas.

I think a pirate ship in DC.

Wow.

Yeah, And we took like a picture, you know, giving the you know, the thing a hand job, you know what I mean.

When I was working on Bar Rescue, one of their biggest episodes that I had to write jokes for when I did the pop up episodes was this bar in the DC area, like in right outside of DC, I think in either Maryland or Virginia. This bar there was a pirate bar. And the guy from Bar Rescue is like, you got to rebrand this. Nobody wants to go to a fucking pirate bar. And the woman just wouldn't do

Well, I was just talking to someone who said, fuck John Taffer and Bar Rescue. Hopefully that doesn't fuck with your money.

Oh no, I'm never going to work there again. Tell me what happened?

And I said, what's that? It was Shane Suarez.

I was at a comedy festival in Denver this week and I met some people.

Thank you for coming out to the gigs.

But so he was saying that a lot of the places actually like he doesn't have a high success rate, and he actually fucks up bars and takes away their personality and like unique factors and makes it kind of generic and not interesting. And there was a he loved in Seattle and they fucked it over and then they like changed it back because they lost all this money. So like he, I guess, isn't actually that good at

Yeah, I was gonna say, because sometimes it's like sometimes what he does help people do though, is like he had a couple that I saw that were like alcoholics and they needed to stop drinking at their own bar to have success. And he like helped them figure that out, so in that sense, but it doesn't always have to be like a full Sometimes you just get to what's wrong with the person that's making the bar unsuccessful and not the decor.

You know.

Well, yeah, and also also treat your employees well when that's number one.

Yeah, but it's also stage.

I've only seen one episode, but it was like they caught an employee or maybe this was undercover, but I don't know what it was, but like someone came in and was trying to like sell concert tickets and a guy from the like the store gave him a bunch of meat and they caught him like trying to buy concerts. It gets with meat, and I'm like, this has to be staged. This can't be real that someone's like I don't know doing.

Definitely, almost everything we watch on television is staged.

But anyway, I make television and I still get tricked. I show up to set and I'm like, wait, what, Okay, we gotta start.

We gotta start just because it's a long episode today and we don't want you guys to I don't know they like us, but you and I know you guys always sometimes you guys say we like the long ones.

I don't get why everyone got mad at Sally Field for going that. You guys like me, you really like me. It's like she won two oscars.

What's wrong with that.

I don't think that they got mad at her. I think it was like a meme moment, even though memes didn't exist yet. I think it was just like she was quoted and like no.

I think it was like a humiliating moment that she had to live. Really, that's the vibe I get.

Humiliating for me as I met her son one time and thought he was somebody different and I said, hi, Dave, we've met before, and he was like, I'm not Dave. Anyway, let's move on.

Let's get the show started, all right, And so today we will be talking about Pretend Season eight, episode twenty one. And I'm sure a lot of you listening are like, I requested that and you did and he listened to you. It was your idea, so amazing news. It starts with a man with a mustache and a flashlight checking out what's up and it looks like a construction, messy home building area, and the guy is like, where are you? Where are you he's looking for some what is he

He finds it in a toolbox.

So he was there in the day and he makes a call to his wife to tell Cheryl he left his phone at the salvage site, and she thinks he's lying, and he's like, I was just watching the game, and he goes, how can I avoid your calls if I didn't have my phone? And so they're just you know, marriage jokes. This is like, so it's relatable to the people that were watching.

Caryl sounds like a real ball buster.

Yeah, Cheryl's a ballbuster, or he's you know, ignores or maybe he's yeah, yeah, so yeah here, I think Cheryl's a bitch. But who knows what this guy's been up to in his life. That makes Cheryl so suspicious, you know what I mean. But he is telling the truth. But he notices something's weird. There's a light on in the basement, but no one should have been there, and he tore out all the light fixtures earlier in the day. But he makes a giant mistake to go look and

I don't know.

Oh no, no, I didn't know if that was like the proper like name. I was like thinking, like it's like a freaky sexual Luca Libra, Luca Libra kind of thing. But yeah, like I don't but I don't know what you call that, Like, yeah, an executioner mask maybe is what I think too.

But yeah, but like you, if you're wrestling, you don't want to wear leather on your face, right right, it's more stretchy, It's more that's more of a spandexy, stretchy thing. Yeah, you're like exercising, you don't want to wear a leather face thing. But I just think of when I think of a simp, I think of pulp fiction. That's yeah. So the gamp. So it's gimp, not simp. Simp was I thought I thought saying gimp.

I thought it was simp because, like you know, people are always like, you guys, simp so hard for maloney or something like people say, it's like what, I don't know. It is like a submissive word, so maybe it's not even that far off.

But a simp means a man who is submissive towards like a dominant woman, hoping the woman will like win them over.

Okay, so simp is a similar term, you could. I was like, oh wow, Lisa's like introducing me to this new term. But I do think of the gimp from for sure. I think of pulp fiction. Yeah, in the Simpsons twenty two short stories about Springfield, one of the stories is a play on that scene, which is wild for a cartoon, you know, yes, rape. I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast, but I did see a pulp fiction when I was in eighth grade,

I mean, you know, the shootings or whatever, but yeah, that dungeon scene is pretty I don't want to say vulgar, but yeah, torture rape.

You don't want that for eighth grade. Oh okay, wait, I'm googling this right now, and I'm thinking that this has bad connotations. We should not be using the word gim but we just we only know it from pulp fiction. But now we know it's actually has some bad, bad background. But we won't be using it going forward. But that is the kind of mass if you've seen pulp fiction. Yeah, we should come up with a new name. I think

Okay, the man screams, but we don't know what's what because we cut to Elliott, so you know, we did shit chat.

I'm sorry.

Where we were was the our bus dashed, man's on the ground. But then they cut to Elliott playing games with kids.

In his home.

It's like a little poker party. But daddy gets a call and he's got to go. But the kids understand, you.

Know, the kids are also throwing out a lot of like poker terms that. I was like, what the fuck are you guys talking about. They're like, you had me up the river over the bridge, you gotta go down double on a forty two. I was like, what are you I don't know what's going on.

Oh the river is the last card that gets flipped over.

And all of this. Yeah, you knew that. I forgot. You're from like a card shark family.

Well, no, poker is not really Russian, but my brother in law, you know he recent you played.

I wasn't thinking it was a Russian thing. No, I'm a follower.

That's what I've learned in the past year because of editing in RuPaul's drag Race. I have no original thoughts. I just do what anyone else does, you know what I mean. I didn't like Olivia Rodriguo the choices did. Guess what I'm doing it. I'm a Chamberlain wore hoops. I bought hoops like. I truly have no original thoughts. But poker was huge when I was in high school. It was like the Negranu the like I remember what

Like, you know, because I'm a trends follower. I bet that's fun when you go to Vegas. Yeah, but I lose. Yeah, I like the men I've only played.

I've only played poker like Hold Him in a casino in like tal and the Dominican Republic. But the guys at the table, I truly was I was the luckiest woman in the world. Every guy at the table was a different ethnicity, and they all made fun of each other the whole time, and they all were good friends. So I felt like I was in a cartoon, Like I couldn't believe it. It was one of every kind of person all roasting each other, and they liked my

Took my money.

So that's the thing with Hold Him, Like when you are playing with people that know how to play it is they're gonna take your money.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's because when I played blackjack, the guys at the table always kind of helped me a little bit.

There.

I was like I would stay or I would hit.

Well, because your success has nothing to do with their success, right exactly.

It's a different kind of game, totally. Yeah.

Okay, So then we cut from poker to like a really bloody Converse shoe on a mattress attached to a man.

The blood is coming from the.

Crotch area of the victim, and the victim is also in a leather face mask and there's blood on his chest. And then we see like a baseball back covered in barbed wire. It's a scene credits.

Baby.

Then we're back to the scene of the crime and it's Benson and Stabler with Melinda and they're investigating, obviously, and we find out that the femoral artery was severed and that's like in your thigh area, and if that gets cut, you bleed out within five.

Minutes, Like you die immediately.

And so the cause of death, Melinda says, is hemorrhag hemorrhagic shock, hemorrhage whatever, a hemorrhage in some shock because you're bleeding too much.

Wait. Can I just bring something up, Lisa that I think you would appreciate. Do you remember the scene in Dexter? I think it was the opening scene of one of the of the season that had John Lithgow in it, and he's got a woman in the bathtub and he just cuts her femoral artery in the bathtub. Yeah, my friend Pat like met that actress and would like right before she did that and was like, yeah, I'm gonna

It is one of the greatest seasons of television. I would say that John Lithgow Dexter season.

I told you he got on the subway during with me during that season and I couldn't make eye contact with him. I was so scared. I was like, the Trinity Killer just got on the subway and I'm gonna die.

It was an incredible episode of television. And I've read in some fan things whatever the new thing of Dexter is the showrunner from seasons one through four, season five through eight they had someone else, and so we're getting the original fucking showrunner for this new season.

So that's cool. I just watched the like longer trailer that came out recording, and I'm excited.

Well, it's also interesting when we talk about our lives. I was talking to someone recently. I was like, oh, yeah, so then the show runner and they're like, what is that? And I'm like, why don't you know what that is?

Like?

But it is.

I guess it is industry terms. Yeah.

And then outside of you know, femoral arteries and dexter and blood and sadness, Marishka does have beautiful banks.

Okay, so oh I love it. Yeah, I love this look.

Yeah, bangs and like a little updo it looks really nice? And then Melinda gives us more scoop. And the victim was hit with a bunch of light tubes and it's such thin glass that breaks into fragments and so he had like cuts and pieces all over.

His body from it.

And you know, there's a lot of ideas it could be a consensual BDSM gone wrong, but Benson is like, yeah, but the hands aren't tied and that's kind of so we're like, Benson, are you what are you doing in your private life that you know the intricate rules of bdsimplay that it means like, oh, the hands aren't tied.

This isn't it.

But then they take the mask off and the boy looks fifteen years old, no idea, so young, so dead?

So like what the fuck? Stabler asks who brought him to torture him? Like we got to find out.

So they're talking to the mustache man who found the body, and he's explaining himself and they're suspicious of him, and he's like, I have a contract with the fucking city. I take shit out of buildings that are about to be demolished. I took some cool windows and so the security bars off, the windows are gone, and that's where the leather boys entered, Like go away, I don't know

Yeah, that is really fast, like pre I mean, I what year was this. I doubt this lady's on Twitter, is all I'm saying. I don't think she found out about it that quickly. Like yeah, it's like I heard there was some satanic undertones, and it's like they just the blood is not even dry.

Yeah, And she's like, with rape satan, what's up? And I says, don't believe anything you hear, but she goes, I know who did it, Darren Tolsen. He lives at the end of the block. And I've seen flyers with his face on it and they're up every morning and ripped by the afternoon. And he is a sex offender and that's that. And so this is a neighborhood where they're harassing a sex offender and you know this guy did target young boys.

So let's see what's up.

So they're talking to the landlord who said that this guy, Darren is a model tenant, and Ice makes a joke like okay, well he modeled for a mugshot I love. And the landlord is a criminal justice reform queen. He's like, I don't know what you want, but if without a warrant, I'm not letting you in where, like, and where do you want felons to live the streets? Like I'm fighting for what's right. And it's true, it's like everything is

Yeah, and he's like, I don't and I don't rent to families with kids, he said. So it's like he's not putting anyone in danger immediately in the building.

Yeah.

I didn't even connect that. Yeah, so this like landlord.

He looks like a scuzzy skateboard type guy, but in reality he's like this criminal justice maven.

I love, he's a criminal justice reform queen.

I've been seeing that a lot. I feel like you said it and now I can't stop singing. And our friend kept going go off, queen, and now I can't stop.

No, And I sent you. I told you that Rosie. When she was posing for a photo, she goes, I look great, and you were like, we love a confident queen. Ye I hate again. I'm a follower, no original.

I just like any accent, any slogan, any words goes into my brain.

You have so many original thoughts, but this is not the place for me to convince you of that. So let's go.

Well, no, But like when I'm on the road with people, I end up talking like that. It's just brains are so wild. Brain's an outer space in the ocean. We know nothing about them. There's spray paint on the door that says pervert, and the landlord goes, well, maybe you should arrest that flyer bitch forandalism.

How about that the pervert.

Is not home and the landlord says he will not open the door without a warrant. So they say, fine, we'll come back at four am and wake you all up. And he does not want to wake up early. I could tell by his flannel he likes to sleep in. He goes and he everything goes out the window, all of his secret like all of his fuck. The police attitude is like, actually, he works at this bakery on Mott Street.

Go visit him at night.

So there's a man kneading dough and Benson's like, wow, strong hands.

You love to work with your hands.

And then Maloney makes.

This giant leap and goes, oh, is that how you pound flesh with those hands, and it's like, back off, guys. I hate when they put me in a position to like defend a sex offender. It's like so annoying, Like I would like to hate people that, you know, attack children, but now you're making me like sad for this guy who's just trying to need bread to live in a shitty apartment.

He acts the defensive the guy.

But he's chill, and Maloney's like, usually when people are innocent, they don't act calm. You're too calm. And usually when they're innocent, they stop what they're doing. But he can't because he's kneading dough for eight minutes, because if you don't for eight minutes, the bread won't rise. And that is awesome. Whoever, Yeah, we need to see who wrote this episode? Like fucking beautiful, it's so beautiful. So they

You, and so she is Sonya Prickland.

Ten years ago, he gets out of prison and then her son disappears the next day, and so everyone is like, it's you, it's you, it's you.

It's you, it's you.

And now she bothers him everywhere that he goes and won't leave him alone. But it's like her kid's dead, what do you want her to do? Play par cheesy like she's she's this is her new hobby. So I thought it was going to be the woman from the hat from earlier, but it's not.

It's a different woman. Did you think the same thing or you knew it was going to be Yeah, I wasn't. No, I wasn't sure. I thought maybe, yeah, it was her.

So the lady when they go talk to him, and she looks like a theater queen, but she.

I was just gonna say, she really looks like a sad mom, like like she has the SVU sad mom, where's my baby? Look to her.

So the lady is like, he took my son and they're like, it's not proven, and she goes, I don't care.

It's him.

He snatched him the first time he saw him when he was on a bike. He should be in jail and he's not. So I watch him since the boy found as a teen. The mom is like, well, Joey would have been sixteen this year. So they go down to see if, like, maybe that's her son and he's been missing for all these years, and she starts crying and going, that's Joey, that's Joey. I can't believe he was alive all this time. That bastard had him, and she cries into Stabler's chest, which jealous. So the victim

You know, do work.

They're busy boys, and a team boy comes in with fluffy bangs and a puffy coat and he says he needs to talk to someone about Riley Cusky murder. And they're like, what what are you talking about? And he says that boy you found last night. They're like, no, he's been idd as another boy, and the guy's like, well, no, that's Riley Cusky and Ice goes, how do you even know? And the boy lifts up and in his hand as a tape recorder and he says, I taped him getting killed.

Done done? That is that is a done done?

Yeah?

Munch takes a deep ass breath and Craigan's holding a remote about to show Benson and Stabler the video and us, you know, as the viewer, the murder tape. So it's Riley's shirtless in the video, going, hey, get ready to watch this video. And so they're wrestling and the guys are in leather hitting each other and then the artery gets caught and Riley's.

Like, whoa, I need to lay down, turn off the camera.

And so it was a stage five with real weapons, so it's scary. So it's like extreme wrestling fighting whatever, and this is an accident. So Scott is the name of the boy that came in with the tape. And so Benson, Craigan and the Stabler listened to him talking with Munch and ice.

Who's Jake? Oh, so Jake and him were fighting with.

This guy's no, this is what I want to know. Then who's Jake? The mom said, this is my son Jake? So where's Jake? Did they ever go back to this? No? Or do we just assume that this woman made a false ID because she's hysterical? I also thought his name was Joey. Yeah, you're right.

Jake is the third person because he says that Jake and Riley were fighting and Scott was filming it.

Oh you're right. Okay, well that's my question still stands.

Here's Joey. Where's Joey? Why did like when I learned how to write shit? Not that I'm a professional like these SVU people, but you don't need two j names. Okay, where are you Jake and Joey ing us like that jam Joey us.

I just I.

Learned that note early on and learning how to write scripts. So you want to keep all the names Mary's separate. Let's just say dugger situation a Kardashian but it's part of it. So basically Scott is the boy and the coat, and he says that Jake and Riley were fighting, Scott just filmed it, and that Jake didn't want to say anything and threatened to kill him if he told. But it's just an accident, like I had to tell, Riley

It's you. We know it's you. We've been detectives for over a decade.

Yeah, he says, no, no, no, no, no, no no, and Elliott goes, DNA will tell us who the other guy is, so I'll stop, And then Scott starts tearing up and he's like, Riley was my best friend. And then I saw then tells Maloney, we're just taking testimony and he's sixteen, so we can't talk to him like this, which shocking for us, for you to follow the rules and respect the people.

And so and so. Basically, Jake was a fictional made up person. Jake was not existent. Jake's but Joey, where the fuck is Joey?

Go on, poor Joey.

Elliott says, you need to call your parents, and then we'll talk about what happened to your friend, and then it just cuts straight to trial.

Part seventeen.

We have our friend Barry Bostwick aka all Over Gates as the defense attorney. You guys probably know him as the white hair, classic rich looking man.

Ye, so that's him.

And Novak's chatting to the jury like, oh, he looks like a good boy. Now look at Scott cleaned up. But you'll see this tape and you'll see what an evil bitch this guy really is. And then the defense is playing a game of like, this is consensual sports. It can't be murder if you like kill someone in the ring, like I'm a boxing ring, so like, if it's an accident, there's no intent, there's no crime.

So both have really good points.

Now we have Scott's psychiatrist on the stand, and he is a man that's been an SV four episodes different people. His name's Tim Burt Feldman, but I knew I knew him. I knew I knew him, and I do. He's from Devilware's praduc He was the head of Elias Clark of like the Conde Nast, So he was the guy trying to like get Miranda Priestly out and like find someone that was cheaper, and so that if he looked familiar to you, he was the CEO.

Yes, totally and so.

On the stand, the psychiatrist says that Scott's been feeling depressed and he's been seeing him for about a year and the reason he's into this game is because he likes to get pain. So he's a massachist, not a sadist. He does not get off on giving pain but actually getting it. But so he's just trying to feel something, anything at all. But Novak's not buying it. And he goes, well, if he's so sad, why doesn't he just cut himself? And it's like, how is this real life right now?

She's doing her job now. So you know, court is over.

Novak's walking in the lobby of the court and a pigtailed young woman in denim and a little backpack runs in and she's looking for Novak. She goes, I asked a court officer, I'm looking for you. They told me I can find you. The girl introduces herself as Cassandra Sullivan, Riley's girlfriend, and I love her voice.

I like wish I've always remembered her voice a little late, like she's always at like totally.

She says that Scott is her best friend, and she's like, is he going to jail?

Like he's going to jail, isn't he?

So basically, this girl is Riley's girlfriend, but since Riley and Scott are best friends, you know, Scott is also her best friend, and so this is a really tough time for her. Novak said that the jury is back with the verdict and she can come see if you know her friend's going to jail or not. So Cassandra says some information that stops Novak in her tracks, and basically it's that Scott keeps texting her that he's sorry and he wishes it was him and not Riley. So

Was it confusing?

Yes? I have nothing to share, no information, and like it.

Was so hard.

That's why law school is so long, and lawyers get the big bucks. Because I could I could not because there's also involuntary manslaughter and so it's like all of these things are just too intricate for my ass.

Yeah.

So Scott sees Cassandra in the courtroom and he's like wait please, and she glares at him and runs off, and Novak's suspicious. So Novak goes to Cassandra's home and she is a foster parent. So she's been in foster care. Is that a clue maybe yes, no, or just a fact. So then Novak goes into the room and she explains as a foster kid, she goes to a lot of different schools and Riley was nice to her right away, and they like, you know, clicked immediately. Then she asks

But I love sending gifts. When you find a really perfect gift response, it's a it's a great feeling.

Well, the great greatest gift of all, of course, is iced tea dancing with a bowl of cereal.

Yes, she did just send to somebody who had COVID. I missed the COVID. I'm bad. I actually you know, as a kid.

It was always like God, I'm such a loser. And now I do feel cool and I have a lot of friends, and I'm like, this is too much. I don't need this, so many texts, so many messages.

I don't. I didn't even are checking in on you a lot. I imagine that your phone blows up a lot.

It does, and I'm blessed because my whole life I was like, why can't people like me? And now that I do have a nice group, a nice community, I'm like, I can't get I can't face I can't I'll be I can't facetimey right now.

Like I just can't. And I'm sorry.

I didn't read any of your text messages. I just responded with a gift and you told me you had COVID, So my.

Dad Okay, wait, so how does Cassandra know that it's not an accident?

So great segue. Damn, that was pretty impressive. Care getting me back on track. So she said that in science they learned about the femeral artery in class and that she was with Scott and they learned like how quickly someone can bleed to death if it's cut. And that was one week before the incident. The next scene is one of my favorite tropes ever, ever ever. Chinese food takeout.

At the presets. I mean, that would be my make a Wish wish.

I'm like, can I go to the set and eat Chinese food with this the cast the cast of Oh my God, well, like there's things on the screen and like we do like a fake crime like that would be knock on wood. Hopefully I'll never get a make a wish? Okay?

Do they give make wishes to people in their thirties.

They've got it's not Yeah, I think it's just for kids. There's got to be an adult version of that.

It is called dream Foundation. Okay, sorry, I hope you get your Dream Foundation wish now. I hope not, Kara. I want to say, hell, I think not. That's what I mean. I mean, that's what I sorry.

I hope that maybe anyone listening will invite me to the set to eat Chinese food on it. Okay, yes, please, she's just oh my God, crab rangoon ah. But I just don't get like how you would eat Chinese food for lunch in the middle of the day and then chase down a criminal like I'm heavy, so it makes you.

Take a nap. It makes no sense.

I don't know how they're eating Chinese food mid day. That is not a lunch food for me. Chinese food for me is it's Sunday night. Yeah, the oscars are on. Yeah, let's binge e, That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'm not sensibly eating Chinese food for lunch. No, even if you have a lunch special, I'd rather have sushi.

Thank you.

Novak says, we got fucked up and says everything she's learned, and these are some of my favorite moments when they give someone a deal, like the case is you know, double jeopardy, baby, So it's there, so there's opportunity, there's intent and double jeopardy.

Like fuck, this is such a good episode.

The max sentence of what happened in court is only four years and as little as probation, so Stabler's like, well, let's just try to get him four year max. But Cassandra has to speak at the sentencing hearing, but she refuses because she feels guilt, like it's her.

Fault that Riley is dead.

Maloney says, listen, then we need a confession, and guess what, I'll be the man to beat it out of him.

That's a joke, Okay. So they're at the.

High school in the books and like, Scott and his two friends are walking and talking poker and Maloney poker.

A role again, a theme.

A theme, And then Maloney tells other boys like, oh, you got to watch out being friends with Scott.

You don't know how you know his friendships don't really end that well.

And he says, what's your problem, man? And they're like, we know you're banging a best friend's girl. So guy code. And he says, whatever, my one best friend is dead, the other won't speak to me.

I don't care what happens to me. Take me to jail. I don't fucking care.

I love him. He is very gen Z.

This is this is a gen Z kid, Like, yeah, slit my wrist into pieces, I don't care. So they didn't get a confession out of him like they thought, but it would be insane if they got like an after high school confession out of this guy. So now they're pressuring Cassandra to testify. She's in her bedroom in a pink, preppy collared shirt on her bed, lavender pillows.

It's like a very teen room.

There's a puffy hat like on the bed posts and posters. And her phone made me rem like nostalgic for the nineties.

It was like a chord.

It was just I want to hold that phone and makes fucking I.

Want it a clear one where you can see all the gears inside. I love that one. I had it.

I got it at amazing Savings and a meantal lot to me. So she's saying that she led him on and so it's her fault, but I just loved Riley so so much, and they're like, well, why did you cheat on him? And Riley dumped her, and so she was because she was too needy and was so sad that she cried to Scott. So she was like crying to Scott, begging him to talk to Riley, but instead

So she's like pretty self.

Aware in a way of like knowing her feelings and why she was so into that. So her lips are so glost during this, which is like I remind you, like is this a Landcom juicy tube?

Like what did they use? For sure? Juicy tubes?

And of course pigtails still because she's a baby, so like her and Riley got back together the next day, so she really regrets it, and Benson says, if you want to make amends, like you should speak at the hearing. She tears up, she thinks and agrees, and now it's time for the trial to begin again, so Ryan not

Oh love it. And I'm an old fan of Patricia Calember because she was in a show called Sisters that I watched kind of religiously when I was a kid. That was Cela Ward, Swoozy Kurtz, Patricia Calimber, and one other actress I can't remember, and it was these four sisters or five sisters that all had boy names. I think she was Georgie, Teddy Alex.

Well.

Yeah, they had one hundred and twenty seven episodes and I had never heard of it, and I knew you probably watched it.

Yes, Oh, I was so into sisters. It was like a nighttime soapy show about these sisters and I just like loved it.

Well, and you know who Swoosie is. Swoozie kurt Susie Kurtz. She played the judge who sold teens to a teen jail for money. Yes, we're going to cover that one co didn't belong in jail, So that episode's called Crush and Swussie is a fun name. Yeah, And I just it makes the world seem so big because like I just I'm so into television and the fact that I have never even heard of a show that had one hundred and twenty seven episodes.

You know what's weird, Lisa. It was on like Friday nights, which usually Friday night is like a TV graveyard, well teach Friday night, well right, but a drama, like a drama that was on at like ten I think it was on nine or ten on a Friday night. Like that's like goodbye, We're about to cancel you. But that show just kind of lived on Fridays for a really long time, and I loved it. I would watch it

What is Cela war known for?

She was sh had another show right, She was in The Fugitive. She plays the wife of Harrison Ford who gets murdered in The Fugitive.

That's one of my movies, favorite movies. And she's so beautiful. Cela Award, like I remember her sisters. She dated George Clooney and sisters and sisters. George Clooney was in it. Oh my god, they're together. Yeah.

No, The Fugitive is in my top ten. I can't believe I didn't put that together. I love that movie so much, and I love Mulani's joke about it. Is he just going into my brain and telling jokes about everything I've ever loved.

I don't understand.

I think so so thank you for that sister's update, hm.

But she but she's she has been on a lot of episodes of Best View, and I always am like Georgie. Yeah, she was in one of my She's been in ten episodes.

She was in Trade, which is with the Coffee Beans and they and the Real Life.

Pedal, the Life from Seventh Heaven.

Yes, so it's when Anne Warner from Legally Blonde is the sun.

Oh? Yes, right? Am I wrong?

That's just off the tip of my brain right now. I don't search it.

I remember Warner. Maybe he is the son I don't remember.

I think it is.

So Riley's parents talk. They're clearly very upset their son got killed. It would be weird if they weren't upset. But Novak is chatting with Benson and stable A during the sad statement, and it's like, can you just not talk during these mourning parents talking. But the foster mother said that Cassandra left, so they have a problem. They need to find Cassandra. While they're looking for Cassandra, Scott

Yeah.

Yeah, he loved being in an abandoned like bleeding out slowly on a dirty mattress with the fuck getting hit by light tubes like scott a.

Barb wire whifflebat like. I don't think this is dying room what he loved so fucked it's like I love watching SVU. I don't want to die watching SVU. And so that you guys can say she died doing what she loved. You don't know.

But he is sad and he said he'll think about this forever. He gets five years probation and has to continue therapy. And then while Novak and the detectives are like walking in the court steps, they get a call from who they think is Cassandra and they're like, oh great, now she wants to call, but it's actually the foster mother and they have to meet Cassandra in the hospital.

She got hit by a car. Dun dun, dun da dah.

So Finn and Munch are looking at the CCTV guy footage of the car accident and it was a black BMW, so they're looking out for that, and who does the car belong to?

They zoom in.

And it's a driver and the driver is one of Scott's friends that Maloney saw outside the high school. So Finn's stabler don't even have to try that hard to get the city at to crack. This is like te ball for them. It's like so easy. And the dad

I knew a girl in high school who had it, and it seemed awful and she was just like sad to be around.

She had a like bleck up burgers and drink them, and she was just wasting away in front of us, not being able to talk. And and then even when the jaw's not why you can't really move it.

I remember New Year's like it was tough for her. So I'm but she's great now, Yeah, she's great.

Her jaw is doing good.

So they do tell this boy.

They're like, listen, you're up for attempted murder, so you should talk. But like you're in trouble. Whether your dad thinks this is a big deal or not. But it's also like, dad, get your kid a lawyer. Why are you even talking to the cops, Like these parents, you'll know better. So they tell him he's up for an attempted murder charge, so you better talk, and he was like, listen, I wasn't even trying to kill her.

I was just trying to rough her up a little bit.

It's like, stop talking to the cops.

This dad sucks. He's like whatever, she's not even dead. Tell him what you did? Like what the fuck? And he said it's because he needed the money. This is where the gambling dots come in and he got five hundred dollars to do it.

Who hired you, obviously it's Scott.

So they arrest Scott and he had this done because he didn't want her speaking at the hearings. So he is a bad person and he's been playing us all along this whole time, like, you know, just hit someone, Like what does she know?

What are you scared?

Of you're obviously lying, hiding shit, Yeah, what are these secrets? So Benson visits Cassandra in the hospital and she can barely speak, and of course, like you know, some makeup bruising, and you know, they tell her like he can get twenty five years for attempted murder and like you could have just only had probation or four years max, Like you're an idiot for trying to fucking run her over with a car. Before Benson can leave, a doctor grabs

Do we actually feel our wisdom teeth like come in? I did. I had a lot of pain really when they came in, when they like broke through.

Yeah, but I waited forever. I got them done later in life. I was living in New York, so I was in my late twenties, so I don't know. I guess that's exactly.

I just remember them. I don't remember them. I just remember them being like in my mouth, like I don't remember having like a teething process.

Well, to get in detail, I actually found a really funny gift of a tooth doing this that I used for a while. But my wisdom tooth, instead of growing up, was growing.

Into my other teeth.

Oh wow, so like sideways, and that's maybe where my pain came from. And then I started an internet war on Twitter while it was high on drugs. But anyways, that's so funny. I felt like a queen. I loved having my wisdom teeth out. People brought me weed tincture snacks, everyone k paid attention to, and I really enjoyed it.

So that's such a twist.

But it's also like, aren't there exceptions to the wisdom teeth rule? Like I can't imagine this being like a hard and fast rule, but whatever. Benson rushes to the foster care files and needs them to see what's up and how did this happen?

They have no.

Records before she was found.

She was just sleeping at a train station and they brought her in and it's like they don't Usually runaways don't grab a Social Security card or birth certificate, so that's it's not uncommon to not have information about a runaway. But it said that she did live in a group home in Pennsylvania. So Munch calls them and they have no record of a Cassandra Sullivan, but the center remembers a girl with the same kind of sob story, so

And then Benson kill her line. She goes, you gotta give it to her. She looks good for her age.

The address in Detroit is a foster home she was placed in from her abusive home, so she was in rough shape when she arrived. She is someone that had a rough life but then aged out eighteen and was like pissed because she loved foster care, so she just wanted to like recreate that happiness. Novak says, she could

Like raping kids.

So they got to pull her out of school and stop the foster care money from coming in.

So what's going to happen to her?

Benson's really concerned for her because you know, she is sixteen in her heart. So Novak says, listen, she's pushing thirty and she needs to figure it the fuck out. Back at the precinct, Stabler has a redstawt in his mouth, making some precinct coffee and says, oh, did you get a chill up your spine?

A defense attorney just walked in, so white Hair.

Gates gets in and he goes, hey, I need to file a report of rape for Scott. He was attacked in high school by an old ass woman pretending to be sixteen, and that's statutory rape. And I want to arrest it and prosecute it. And they're like, well, he tried to murder her, and he goes, well, maybe that's why he did it. He was suffering from the rape trauma from rape trauma syndrome. And Stabler's pissed that this defense tactic and using like real stuff to finangle something that's not real.

But it is real. What's happening? But why haven't you arrested her?

And you know if like this was reversed engenders, there would be some arrests, and you've known for weeks. Why weren't we notified? So white Hair says, you don't have just like you. This discretion is fucked up and the reasons you're not arresting her are fucked up, and you need to book her right now. So Novak goes to the Bowery Safe Haven on Second Street to meet with our Pigtail queen and she's at the shelter and without.

It, she would have been on the street.

So thanks to Novak for helping her get the shelter, and she's trying to tell her to take the plea, but Cassandra's like, I didn't rape anybody. She keeps saying she's only sixteen. And she's like, drop it, Denise, or I'll take you to trial and Scott will testify against you. And she's like, I won't admit it, no, And Novak's like, you can go to jail for up.

To three years, and she just won't do it.

She goes, I'm going to go to court and I'm going to clear my name and I'm going to defend myself. Who Scott is now on the stand talking about how she said she was sixteen but is twenty and it made him feel sick to his stomach and creeped out. Fair Now Cassandra's in crutches, pigtails, a little schoolgirl outfit and she's sixteen in quote like about to question a suspect on the stand. It's like, it's just a real bonkers out of reality.

He's seen.

I just love this child in court right now.

So they have a back and forth and she's not doing a great job as a lawyer. She's just making statements and arguing and everything's kind of wild and heating up, and Scott is really mean and talks about how Riley dumped her skanky ass and that she's a sicko and that he says he tricked both, that she tricked both of them, and she's like, I didn't ask you out

I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, you freak.

And all these people have to hold him back and Novak's like, oh, this was your plan all along, like pretending you're sixteen and to do this, and she goes.

No, I am sixteen.

So we're in like the DA's office and Novak opens the door and lets in missus Hayes and she says, hi, Denise, you don't remember me, and she goes, no, YadA YadA. Basically, this woman is Jeanie, the first foster parent from Detroit, and she brings pictures and talks about a swing and Cassandra spent hours a day on the swing and that's so that's a cry for help. A swing for hours, you're a teen, get off the swing, like I just I don't know why you would swing for hours.

But then she aged out.

And she's like, I wish I could afford you, but we just couldn't afford to keep you. And she goes, yeah, they just dumped me onto the street and I had nowhere to go. She just finally had someone to take care of her, and she wanted to recreate that. So the detectives come in and Novak goes, oh, I think she'll take the plea now, but they look like they have some news. So Stabler says, I don't know if the other das will be as lenient, and she goes,

And then yeah, she's an out of her mind predator.

And that's dick wolf baby, and that's that twist turns, so many twists and turns.

Wait until you hear the real story, girl, can't wait. Thank you for doing the research.

I known nothing.

We'll be right back, all right. So this is the story of Treva Thronberry. A lot of people have heard this story.

Well, there wasn't a famous last name of a cartoon on Nicola the Thornberry's that's Thornberry.

This is Throneberry.

Okay, thank you.

I originally thought her name was Triva Thornberry, but it's Throneberry. And she was born on May eighteenth, in nineteen sixty nine in Wichita Falls, Texas, to Carl and Patsy Thronberry. Her family later moved to Electra, Texas, which is where Triva grew up. In Electra, everyone knew her by sight. She seemed normal to everyone. She waitressed at a place

Like he yeah, But I'm just saying, what's the point of bouncing anyone on a knee? And I wonder if that's like an act creepy thing that we.

Just accept in society. Yeah, I don't know, Santa's lap. Are we still doing this in twenty twenty one? Who knows?

So.

In nineteen eighty five, Triva accuses her father, Karl, of raping her. Now there's absolutely no evidence of this, and all three sisters come forward and sign affidavits saying we don't think ours our father did this. They all maintain that their father never touched them. And Carl was like, what about the church that Triva is involved in, there's probably somebody there that molested her. Because they're trying to

After two months in Cordelaine.

She vanished. Next she shows up in Plano, a suburb of North Dallas, and there she tells police that her name is Kara with a ka. A good choice. Her name is Kara, Williams said. She tells police that she's sixteen years old, that she'd been born and raised in a Satanic cult, and she'd been taught to honor Satan, and that she would die in a lake of fire.

And what was the social I don't get the parents. So the social order got the parents on the phone.

Yeah, got her actual parents on the phone and they were like, Treva, are you okay? And she was like, I'm not Triva. Sorry, I don't know who you are, Like she was just denying that she knew them. So all in all, she used about eighteen teenage aliases. And here's a fun tidbit. She joined the tennis team at every school that she that she lived in and went to. And she was shit at tennis. She was terrible, like they said, she was always awful and like always lost

And I know obviously this case started in a very serious manner, but this is the time of my life. This is so funny. I feel like I'm in sweet. Like all the name, like all two Court, like all the names are very funny. All her aliases are silly. But it's just like all of this could have been avoided if they didn't like lock her, like if they

Yeah, completely, So honestly, what everything she does is kind of funny because she doesn't I will I won't say she has her crimes are completely victimless because I'll get into it. But she is mostly not hurting anyone, and she's been so hurt, so it's kind of easy to be like, oh, this is silly. She's wearing these matching outfits and while they while the song Shania Twains, You're still the one played, Kenny kissed Brianna on the dance floor at the Stadie Hawkins dance and told him that

Yeah, but he thought she was sixteen, so he would trape another team and he was fine to do it. So yeah, maybe on a technicality, fine, but like still a.

Shady character, exactly exactly. So basically what was going on with Brianna towards the end of high school was she really needed a Social Security number so she could get a job, a license, a credit card. I mean, you really can't do anything with your life without a social and a lot of people in Washington State were trying to help her. They were trying to track down her identity, get her a social but it was obviously very hard to track down her identity because she was like lying

You know me, so thinks she'd get better grades after doing so much high school over it.

That's what a lot of people say. A lot of people said. A lot of people said. That just goes to show you how much algebra sucks. That this girl took algebra like multiple times and still did not get good grades in it. Like so, but it's like, you know, who knows what her trauma has effect on her education. Her father was a sixth grade graduate who couldn't even read to write, so, like, you know, she wasn't from

I'm wondering if this is a sibyl situation where it's like disassociating and putting the things behind and having all these different personalities, but instead it's like full reality, Like I understand, I can see that, Like.

Yeah, some people said she might have Yeah, some people said she might have had multiple personalities. Others said disassociated fugue states, both things that you've mentioned. Like, so people were really trying to figure out what was wrong with her, and there were a couple of things, but she was

Goodness for SVU for bringing this story to the table, but the fact that that this is not a motion picture. That's what I said, and emburssing for everyone in Hollywood.

I've looked it up, and I'm like, how has this not been a movie? Like, I bet you I don't know. You know, movie projects fall through the cracks all the time. But because I'll tell you, one of my sources is an amazing article from Texas Monthly and that'll be in

Yeah, watch Long's long denim skirts will be in next year. Yeah, well, you know, I'm wearing my long khaki skirt with a slit.

I've been worrying.

I know I've been seeing you wearing that. It shows and it looks great. Yeah.

I start my show and I go, I'm doing a little sexy menonit vibe and then everyone laughs and you know.

Great, all right, I love it.

But that is a Halloween costume you would buy sexy Mennonite.

Yeah, sexy Mennonite baby crop top khaki skirt. I just love crop tops. It's I don't I love them? Yeah, no, yeah, I can tell a huge staple in your wardrobe. They really are. I want you to crop top our sex crime shirt because I don't think you'll wear that regularly. I think you should.

No, I love a baseball tea.

Oh long, you want crop chop it?

I have my swim team high school.

Baseball tea in my closet right now, from eighteen what is it?

Third eighteen? I don't know maths from a while ago, yeah, fifteen years ago.

Maybe that was the best part about losing weight at my parents' house, was I am wearing my Victoria's Secret pink shirts.

I'm wearing my swim team shirts. You're taking a walk down memory lane startorially.

Yeah, and then not yet, but once I get my guests Denham skirt out, my personality will never.

Be the same. Can't wait. Okay. So she's coming into court every day in the long skirts. She's smiling at the judge, whose name is Judge Robert Harris, and she's got this little girl voice, and she'll just be like hi every morning. And I think that's probably why they had this girl specifically also have this very high voice in the show. It was very like a little girl voice.

Yeah, Like John c Riley would play the judge like this needs yes, this wee do, this needs to happen.

Lily Ryan Hart can play Treva. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure some actress that's in her thirties would want to be like, yes, put me in a movie where I'm playing sixteen. Let me prove it to you.

Yeah, Sir Povitski, I mean I don't know. We got I'm calling our manager immediately.

I ester Kovitsky would be a good casting for that. Actually, she does have a little girl look listen, I have a gift. Yeah, I'll cast a movie now. That is so insulting to casting people.

Casting.

You know, one time I was in a meeting at like CBS or something, and I said casting agent, and they were like, we don't go by that, like they got pissed.

Oh cool, toy, it's casting director.

Okay, but I'm not trying to tell you what I'm just telling.

You that I got yelled at by like eight people in a meeting, and I'm like I just got off the boat and came here, like not really.

But okay. So Treva had a court appointed attorney sitting next to her all the time to answer any questions she had, but she actually seemed pretty comfortable like defending herself. She would just like literally go objection relevance and like she would just call it out and like smile at the judge. This bitch lived. Our dreams are dreams, and the prosecutor wanted to murder her. Like the prosecutor they said,

Her brain was just not She ivusually the smartest and dumbest person alive at the same time. She's a hero and enemy of the state at the same like she's living all our dreams but lived a nightmare. This is the most complex character who wants an oscar. Let's go, let's get this going.

And apparently right after she said that, she was like it makes no sense. She like turned and like beamed at the jury, and then the officer who was on the stand just like shrugged because I think he was like, I don't know what you're even talking about. So, just like in the episode Kinny, the prosecutor brings in Sharon Gentry, Treva's foster mom from fifteen years ago, to testify that she had known Treva in nineteen eighty five. When she

I mean, what a lucky jury, what a lucky everyone that got to be there to experience this. This is a once in a lifetime moment Like this has not happen. You do not get someone pretending to me a bunch of people representing themselves thinking they're sixteen.

Like, I mean, I hope I'm not being.

Too like disrespectful about all the trauma. But this is just the most sensational story I think we've covered, and we cover really wild ones and the imposter, but like this is cinematic and layered in the like the most unique.

Way, and there's so much information.

The fact that I didn't know about any of this to me, I thought, oh, okay, maybe found a couple articles. This is some little you know, but maybe it's based on like to have this much like I, oh my god, Neil Barry, get on the line.

I've got. So the jury found her guilty very quickly. The judge sentenced her to three years in prison. And the problem the judge even admitted this. He said, the problem with prison in Washington State is that there are

You just can't.

And the last thing I found about Triva was that in twenty sixteen, she was working as a hotel maid as Brianna Kenzie, and she did accuse a man of raping her and he was like, she actually tried to steal my meth and punched me in the face. So like neither of them was ever charged, but she was fired from her job at that hotel. And I don't know what she's been up to for the past five years. But I'm sure our listeners will tell me. And that's that the thrilling, gripping.

I but I also like, did I wonder if she like stopped at Brianna because then she got caught and all this stuff happened, or would she have gotten a new identity again, like she's now uck is Brianna? I guess, But like did she like that? Like wasnall?

I think because Brianna was where she really dug in, Like she had a full like three years of high school there. She had a boyfriend there, like they were helping her get a birth certificate. I feel like that was the closest she thought to that was. I think she was sort of settling in too, Brianna Stewart being her future life. So I think that's why she was

Well, thank you for having me. Guys. This is this is going to be super fun.

I can't wait a nice walk down memory lane.

Yeah.

Well, we're thrilled to have you.

We obviously looked you up on the internet and you aren't booked and blessed so many IMDb credits one hundred and five you're working, so congratulations and talk about being a child actor and your life as a child star if.

That's okay of course.

Yeah. I sort of consider my career more like a like a cal Rippking type thing. Just you stick around long enough, eventually you're going to accumulate some numbers.

Not but I'm I'm always just kind of there is.

That a sports reference. I mean, I get it, but it's sporty, sporty sorr.

I know you're crad.

No, I would like to say when I played softball at cal Ripken Glove, so I was there, Okay, Yeah.

So I started acting when I was ten professionally, and you know, of course my parents forced me into it. Was there was a lot of parallels between my life and Jackson five. No, it was actually it was just something that I always kind of wanted to try, you know, as a little kid. I mean any sort of old you know, home video footage was always just me performing. That's all I ever did, just reciting whatever the latest thing I saw on TV was, whether it was a

We didn't know anybody. We didn't know what we were doing.

We were sort of lived in a suburb outside of La so honestly, like my mom just we went in the phone book, found a photographer. We made up headshot and they were not very good. It wasn't even like a person who did headshot. It was just like a photographer in the yellow pant. And then my mom just carried him around with her in her purse and we were just like, hey, whatever, we're playing with house money here.

Like, let's just see what happened.

Two weeks later, she's at the dermatologist office with my older sister, get to do a conversation with this woman who ends up revealing like, oh, yeah, I'm a I'm a talent manager for kids. I'm here with one of my clients. She's having acne issues. It was melacunis not the name drop, but just just because that's.

A fun little tibo.

Wait was it really?

It was? She was there with Milo Mila was apparently having some acne.

Oh my god, I love that.

And then my mom goes, oh, here, my son wants to be an actor, gives this random woman just my my terrible headshots and she was reluctant of course, at first, my mom is very pushy. She ends up looking at the pictures and meeting with me. I gave a terrible audition. Again, we didn't know anything, and for whatever reason, I don't know why, this woman saw something in me, she took me on as a client. She ended up being like one of the top managers for kids at the time.

Wow.

And she just like she just fought for me and she got me indoors. This is back in the day when not everything was submitted digitally. You actually had to like call the casting office convince them to see your client.

This never would have worked now. I don't know. I don't know how.

Anyone breaks into entertainment now because everything is digital, so there's not that like human element of knocking down the doors and making it.

You know, you have to see this person. I don't care about their you know what I mean.

So then basically, like the first job I got, it was as a younger version of Niles on the show Fraser.

I saw that that was your first credit. It really warmed my heart.

And all that was is like I just I love doing impressions as a kid. That was like the thing that I liked to do. And I guess I, you know, did an impression of Niles better than any other ten year old actor at the time.

So I got that job.

And then once that was on the resume, like that was when Fraser was in its stretch of you know, winning Emmys every year and number one comedy on you Must see TV, NBC, all that shit. So at that point that opened up other opportunities and then from there you just kind of build it a brick at a time and you keep going. So that's yeah, it's a crazy little story. No, no, two stories are alike with this stuff.

Your mom is a hero to push you mothers everywhere and bless her. That's so awesome. So how did the SVU audition come about? Did you watch it you were young? I don't know if that was your vibe. Were you watching it NonStop? Did you send in a tape? Were you in New York? Like, do you remember any of that?

Oh? I loved SVU at the time. I was a huge fan real I was so excited. Absolutely, I don't I mean, I don't know how this.

Was season eight, So do you do you know what year this was what we don't have to do podcast map?

Yeah, I think it was like seven probably.

Okay, so I was young, whatever it was. Basically, I didn't audition for it. So here's here's what happened. And I ended up getting a lot of parts that I didn't audition for, which sounds a lot better than it is. Here's what the reality is. I again, cal Ricken was around a while. I auditioned all the time, developed relationships with all these casting directors. Booked very little from auditions, and that's whether I just wasn't good at auditions or the theory.

That I came up with later is like I'm not like, I'm not a specific type. I don't I'm not the obvious.

Choice for anything in particular, but you can kind of plug me in anywhere.

Does that make sense?

Yeah?

So what what happened a lot is that casting directors, when they were in a pinch would call me. And this is something that people don't understand, Like, you know, these shows are such a machine. You know sometimes they literally you know, you're working, You're filming an episode in eight days. You know, it's like working sixteen hours a day sometimes they literally go, oh fuck, we never cast

However that worked out, yeah, and then and that's that's basically it.

And then they they flew me out and honestly, my first time meeting everyone was for the first rehearsal of the first scene that we.

Did, which is when I, you know.

Come into the precinct and go, excuse me, I filmed my friend getting killed my open scene. And that's like, I mean, that was like it was in the middle of it was like Mike cue when I came in. And then that's when I sort of we stopped the rehearsal for a second so I could shake everyone's hand and say hi, and then just continued the rehearsal because they moved so fast in TV it's crazy.

Was your hair already like that sort of like shaggy skater boy thing or did they do that for you?

No, that was that was natural. That was that was the real deal.

And maybe that was part of it too. Maybe they called my manager and was like, hey is he is he doing the shag?

Look? Did he cut it? What's you know? We need shaggy?

And being a fan of SVU, how did you feel when you found out you were going to flip out and core and confess on the stand, Like, what the fuck?

That's like the that's like the coolest part you could get.

I think, Oh, that's the dream, right, I mean, yeah, it's it's.

So funny because, like you know, as an actor, obviously you're a fan of these things. That's why that's that's why you're an actor, because you want to be a part of these things that you love, and every now and then you get to do it. And yeah, it was such a great experience. I have, I mean a couple of funny like the things.

That I do remember.

I remember at one point Belser, it was during the sequence, so it's like they have to shoot kind of b roll footage of Hey, look they're being interviewed while you know, Benson and Stable talk about Look, he's been like they talk about the case or whatever. But then you just sort of see on camera on being interviewed. So Belzer

God, that's so funny. No one has told us that. No one has told us yet, Like when you're doing like sort of fakey talk, what are you talking about? And that's really great.

Well, if you're talking to Richard Belzer about Kennedy.

How was working with Barry Bostwick as your lawyer?

He was really cool.

He was a good guy. Wrote.

The thing that I remember about him is we were sort of talking about the formula of shows like this, and he had mentioned that at one point in the series he was developing this kind of like flirtatious sort of side story, subtle thing with one of the other lawyers, which sometimes can just happen naturally, like as.

An actor, if you're an actor.

You're performing with somebody else, like you sort of find things and that aren't necessarily on the page. And he was like, yeah, when that went to air, they took a hatchet to all that shit, Like they have no they have their formula, they have no time for.

Personal development of any of these characters. It's just all about the story.

That's kind of the tidbit that I remember from him. And then I remember the prosecutor and I'm oh, I'm gonna Diana.

It's a named Diana, dian Neel Dianell, thank you, who is awesome. By the way, couldn't have been nicer.

She gave me some really good advice when I was doing the weird sort of you know insecure, I mean, I need enough actor thing where she basically said, listen, in TV, it's never as good as you think it is, and it's never as bad as you think of it, and especially on a show like this, which is like like the actor's job on SVU is basically to just be like stepherds of this story, Like, it's not about us,

But it's not.

It's you know, this is why I don't think to do a quick little side tangent. But I don't think criminal intent ever really works because Dnafria, as much as I love him as an actor, he made it about him, and it's like, dude, it's it's law and order. Bro, this ain't about you, right, Like, get out of the way. You don't have to be interesting. It's it's the stories are interesting enough anyway.

Wow, love that insight. Thank you so much for that. I'm curious the Misty character. Was that her real voice? Did she put on a voice? What was up with that?

Oh?

No, that was that's the real deal. What mystery? Yeah? I knew her.

She This industry is so incestuous, it's so funny. She was the daughter of a guy named Jim Hayman, who was the showrunner on a show called Joan of Arcadia.

That what you were on?

Yes, I was on for two years but you know Amber Tamblin, Joe Montagna, Jason Ritter, Mary Steambridge is like an incredible people. Yeah, so she had a little arc on that show, so I knew her from that, and oh no, that that's she was. She was perfectly cast in this role because that is that that's the that's the face, that's the voice.

And I think she was.

Like thirty five at the time when we shot that, so it was like, yeah, this.

You couldn't hire anyone else better than Misty.

For this amazing.

So SVU fans were kind of lunatics, but I would assume the Twilight fandom is another level of yeadom.

Do you get recognized a lot? Do are their teen girls chasing you down the streets? What is? Uh?

What are the Twilight fans like?

Well, what's funny about that now is that a lot of those fans gotten older and are having kids of their own and are like passing the fandom down to their kids.

So wow, it's.

Like, you know, it's like the Matthew McConaughey thing of like I keep getting older, Twilight fans stay in the same age. I mean, it's still you know, and I'll still have encounters with you know, twelve thirteen, fourteen year old girls that that are like just as passionate about this thing is they were a decade ago.

Yeah, so that's a really that's a pretty.

Awesome thing to be a part of it. I mean, listen, you know, it ain't like it was. I mean, there was a period there for a good five years that was absolutely insane. I don't think it affected my sort of day to day life. But when I got to be a part of like you know, all right, we're gonna fly you guys to Paris and you're going to do this thing in front of you know whatever it is six eight thousand, I mean.

Like it's pretty intense. I mean it was.

That was definitely my biggest connection to I don't know, something that was that prevalent in the in the in the pop culture zeitgeist at the.

Time, you know what I mean.

Like I've never I've never quite had another experience like that one, and I'm ultimately very grateful for it. It was really I have nothing bad to say about that experience.

Yeah, I mean I did social media for MTV for like that time period for a little while.

Oh yeah, and like we.

Would do interviews with towilet people, and I just had to with the fans, like forgot what they were called. It wasn't Twyhard's. It was like something else, but like there was like the Twilighters, the twilighters hashtag twilighters. They were just like rabbit Like I can only imagine me as like dealing with them from behind a computer and you dealing with them in real life. I just must have been like a different a different experience, but a legendary franchise to be a part of.

Yeah, it was.

It was. I mean it was like I think three out of our four movies were top ten on Netflix this week, so I mean it's still it's still going.

Yeah.

The other thing, by the way, if you want to hear the lamest brag in the history of brags, we do, I invented the term twyhard. I know it didn't quite take off like Twilighters.

I didn't mean to diss your hashtags.

Oh no, please, I feel free.

No.

And it wasn't even.

Like something I intended to do.

I was I was doing like a blog at the time or something, and it was literally just a throwaway. It was just like I said, you know, hardcore Twilight fans, or as I call them, twy hard's, and then it just sort of took off. And then of course it became as everything does a competition, like well you a twy lighter or twy hard And then and I will say too, if I'm not mistaken, there's the other side of it, which is and I believe it was on an MTV website, so I'm not blaming you for.

This, but I didn't do it.

But it was also my first experience of like the meat grinder, of being sort of dissected on the internet right where I you know what it was.

It was like it was a photo of me and then and that guy Boogoo and then.

One other person I don't remember at Wango Tango or some something like that, and and I it was either on I think it. I honestly think it was an MTV website, but then the comments below it.

I just I went down the rabbit hole and.

It was just people picking me apart, like piece by piece, just like everything. You can imagine his oh, his his hair sucks, his teeth are too small, his nose is this, And I was and I couldn't.

And I couldn't stop.

I mean, after it was my first time experiencing this, I was like, well, let's see how far this thing goes. And after a while it became it was like every comment was just saying how shitty.

I eat am and look and all the things.

And then so, dude, I'm telling you, man like, I got a very very very very very very modest.

Taste of what that was like.

And boy, that that once a certain level of fame and and't for the faint to heart. I'll tell you that because you know, if you're sensitive at all, which I mean as someone who is a creative person, I don't know how you could do that without being sensitive. You know, it's u You just got to learn to compartmentalize that stuff. I guess I never did because I didn't experience enough of it, so when it did happen, I would just go down the rabbit hole, just more bid curiosity more than anything else.

Yeah. No, I never read comments. Yeah, stay out of the comments section. Who says that, RuPaul? Somebody says, stay out of the comments section?

Well, what other people think about you is none of your business, is what that just says? We noticed you were a sports fan on the internet. What athlete would you love to see guest star on SVU?

Ooh, what athlete would I love to see guest star with you?

Because famously athletes are not the best actors. But I'm sure, I'm sure there's somebody you have in mind that is could at least find a body.

I don't know, Well, if there have been athletes, we've had Chris Bosh, Rick Fox.

Has been on. I don't even know that.

Oh yeah, Mike Tyson, Oh Tyson, Yeah, Mike Tyson was good.

You know what I think would just be fun visual is one of these basketball.

Players, somebody like like Anthony Davis or.

Joel Embi, just to see them sitting in one of those little chairs behind the desk.

I've seen these guys up close.

Anthony Davis looks like he's standing on top of another really tall man. Like it doesn't it doesn't look natural, like people are not supposed to look like that.

It looks uncomfortable quite frankly.

Yeah, Joel EMBII is the biggest thing I've ever seen in my life, human or otherwise. So yeah, somebody like that, just purely for the size, and then and then the deep voice.

Too, because and the eyebrows. Anthony Davis's eyebrows deserve to be honest.

You absolutely, you would for sure be able to work that into the story somehow.

Kara's impressed that. I'm so impressed. I'm like, I don't even know who this is. I'm just imagining a very tall basketball player sitting behind an interrogation desk and that's it doing it for me. But you guys, are you actually know who he is?

Wow?

I'm sure I.

Should have some some questions about his eyebrow be like a whole scene is just trying to.

Figure out how the eyebrows.

Got like that. Oh my gosh. He was so nice. So it's nice to meet somebody who has been working since they were a child and isn't messed up. And he's not messed up. He's cool or he's hiding it. Well, you know, we don't know what's going on in there or in that interview. He made us to think he was a totally normal dad. And we do want to mention that he has a Western movie coming out soon with the with the Legend Bruce Dern playing his father. So the title has not been released yet, but keep

Yeah, trying to get arrested with light tubes.

I was gonna say. I learned that I really want to dress.

Up like an old granny and visit a funeral. That's what I learned. Oh, and then you got to write a treatment for a movie makes the money. That's what I learned. Yeah, I like funeral games. I guess that's something I'm into just learning.

Yeah, I mean, I think we learned that just when we think we know the depths of people's trauma, it can go a level deeper. So it's just you never know where people are coming from. I guess. But uh, yeah, And we definitely learned that high school algebra is fucking impossible to pass, even if you've taken it ten times.

Also, girl, all you had to do was not show up to court and like bother Diane Neal, you know what I mean. Everyone could have just lived there, happy, you know, not the dead in.

The TV show.

Yeah, yeah, No, in the real life, lock up every uncle. I guess yeah, I've learned, lock up the uncles. They're doing a shady shit. When have you ever heard of an uncle doing a good job.

Never. My brother Colin and my brother David are their great uncles. My brother Kevin has not been around my kids very much, but my brother those two brothers have been great uncles. It would be funny if I was fully serious. No, I know. My sister's marrying a guy named Tom and my dad my mom calls him tea dog because she's a dork, and Rosie calls him Uncle

Like she loves talking about Uncle tea Dog, So there's good Uncle. I thought this was going to go into an Uncle Tom discussion.

Oh, but I said that to him. I was like, it's kind of fun that we're calling you Uncle tea dog because Uncle Tom is awkward, right, And he was like, why and I was like, well, cauz, you know, like the Uncle Tom's cabin. And he was like yeah, but and I was like, I mean, we can definitely call you Uncle Tom, I guess, but you can't.

You cannot be screaming, you know, a great America screaming Uncle Tom get over here.

You can't see that Uncle Tommy. Tea dog for life is what? Yeah, it's gonna have to be tea dog.

What else do you learn?

I guess it's easy to just lie to people if you believe it enough, join a school, get foster carried. I mean, I don't know, the world's your oyster. It seems like a fun time being a liar.

You can get anything you want. Yeah, it's so well because it's like, if she had not hired those two separate lawyers, she really would have gotten a Social Security and she would just be She would have gotten away with it the perfect.

It makes me terrified because I'm out there trying to meet somebody, and what if I meet one of these lunatics that are just you.

Know, fake social security.

Well, because there's you know, I'm on BuzzFeed a lot because I'm not really a reader, and I go through the lists, and there was something about like many people will confess to murder on their deathbed to medical professionals. Really yeah, I think they're like dying and they're just like BT dubs, I killed some people.

Wow.

Yeah, I guess secrets do come out on your deathbed.

Well.

I mean there's that famous Brian Dunny the episode of SVU, but it took a full, full forty five minute episode for him to confide I know me, I'm aloney.

I had to like squeeze the oxygen right or is that to someone else? He had to play little games with the tubes totally. But are we just are we just having problems making connections because your birthday was recently? I might yeah, I don't know, because it's just like, oh I forgot. I don't know if they want to know. Listen, I did whippets and I love it. So we learned that yesterday. So that's also something we learned from this week's So maybe I will have permanent brain damage, but

She was like, I don't know, but I did them for hours.

Only my first time and I don't think I'm going to do it again until New Year's. But I think I'm going to do a whippet new Year's is what I'm thinking.

Nice.

This is not a condoning or anything like that. But it was fucking awesome, guys. But I am struggling to make connections. And I did listen to this episode not even an hour ago, the whole the whole thing.

I listened. I mean I played some backgammon of course while I listened.

Well, I think, yeah, are we trying to convince our audience, our audience that we're recording this all in one shot? Maybe we cut this.

I don't know, No, I'm just trying to explain to them, like clearly we learned more things from like backyard, I learned about the femoral artery. How about that? Oh yeah, that's a pretty big one. Yeah, that's a big lesson to learn. If I ever need to kill someone, I know what's up. Get at that fucking upper thigh.

Baby.

Yeah, I bet if you could stick, Like if someone texts you if you stick.

Your key in their femeral artery, I'll yeah. But you really gotta fucking have a sharp key, and you gotta know where that artery is.

It's kind of like when people think they can like fight a shark, and it's like you can barely punch a person, you know, like in the water, you're.

Gonna punch a shark in the face.

Yeah.

I just think in emergencies they'll figure it out. I couldn't handle it. So when I was in Denver, a woman that has seen better days did throw a glass bottle at my feet and try to fight me. And I just stood there frozen, like someone had to defend my honor and get in front of me and help me, because I just like she, I would have stood there she beat me for hours.

I don't know what I would have done.

Ah. Yeah, I asked Lisa, how is Denver last weekend? Pretty good?

Pretty good?

I hear nothing else. Two hours later, she goes, oh, yeah, this woman did come at me throw a bottle at my feet. Someone had to come to my rescue. I'm like, this is what I asked for two hours ago. It was very funny detail to leave out of your weekend. Yeah.

I was just like, listen, I ate cold spaghetti, and I talked to great comedians and floated in a pool.

But yeah, I did forget that I was fully attacked.

In the street. All right, Well, that woman had seen better day. She probably could have used a sister Peg in her life. And that seamlessly segues us into our next segment, What would Sister Peg Do? Our weekly segment where we give you an organization, a book, an article, goal, some kind of resource where you can donate or simply learn more about a subject that we tackled in today's episode. This week, we are choosing to highlight an organization called

Thank you so much for that, Kara, and next week join us and watch Downloaded Child. That's what we'll be covering season fifteen, episode nineteen, so we'll get a Littlemorrow action which.

Will be nice for me.

Hulu, Peacock, the Internet, your VPNs, figure it out, guys, and good love.

Thank you for listening, Thanks so much, see you next week. Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod.

And follow us personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.

And to our sound engineer and personal hero, Analie Snilson, and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot com slash ads Done.

Done