Presumed Guilty w/ Denis O'Hare

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories. Dune done.

Hi everyone, and welcome to That's Messed Up and Us Few podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

Every week we talk about an episode of SVU the true Crimate's based on, and then we have a very cool guest from the episode that we like. We haven't hated any guests, to be honest, Yeah, I dare you to come on this podcast and let us hate you. Yeah, or did you think we hated someone? Let us know? Why is this starting so negative? This is our holiday episode, Christmas.

New Year Winters, jingle bells, everyone. I hope everybody's excited for I don't know, at least some time off work. I don't know if you're not like religious, which many of us are not, or you don't celebrate Christmas, but I hope you know it's just like the end of the year wind down New Year's I just always find it to be like a fun time. I'm of course traveling cross country with my two children, so it will be a nightmare.

But you know, but I hear.

People seem festive as fuck, because obviously last year was a little different. So yeah, it does seem to be like I'm invited to a few holiday parties. That's not really what happens to me. I don't know, maybe it's an LA thing, but I have holiday parties people, but there's not a lot of decorations. My mom asked if the neighborhood is decorated, and it's not.

Well, it's going a little bit fast.

I'm noticing it only because Rosie is obsessed with the holiday decorations, because she was very upset when Spooky season ended and like all the spooky decorations went down. So now I'm kind of redirecting her to be obsessed with, like, you know, all the reindeer and snowmen that are out, and I'm noticing more and more houses every night are kind of popping up with some stuff like I'll tell you off, Mike butt between you and me, the walk between you and me. There's a couple of houses that

But you know what I was really reminiscing about like holiday parties in elementary school.

Like that was so exciting? Was that a big moment for you? Wait? But do you just mean it's school? Yeah?

Yeah, so fun and like candy canes and like little though hershey kisses that come in the red and the green wrapping.

The tastes the same, but there's something different. No, but I like that. Did you ever do the white kisses?

Oh? Su?

And the peppermint ones? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.

So our mutual cleaning person she you know, I've always heard she brings gifts.

She did bring me a gift.

They are white marshmallow minty things.

God, she knew how to get right to your heart. I know.

And I'll eat them. But without chocolate, mintce not a dessert. I just realized that, Like cause I love chocolate and mint so much, but without a little hint of chocolate, it is.

It's like a tooth based marshmallow.

Hmm.

Interesting. I'm trying to think of anything I've had mint on. I do like mint tea, but yeah, that doesn't count as a dessert to me. No, that's like when I have a cold.

Oh but you know what we should do, Let's make fucking s'mores with them. With a chocolate and then they become a minty chocolate a thing.

That's a great idea. I only had a few of them. We should totally do that.

Okay, great, I'm sure Rosie will want one for Christmas. I'm a Jew, but I love decorations, I love festivities, and I love an American Christmas.

And that's what I'm doing.

I'm going with some American friends to their cabin and which I think they'll be snow so I'm excited.

Oh that's gonna be great.

I was just about to ask you what you were doing, but I forgot. I know what you're doing that and then that be really cozy. And that town that they live in is amazing. The mayor's a dog, I know. So I'm gonna have a good time if a dog's running things. But you know what I gotta tell you, I think it's several dogs are the mayor.

No, it's Mayor Max and he has a few friends.

Oh, somebody told me that there were several dogs that are the mayor of that town. I thought recently like they switched them out, and somebody was like, that's oh, deputy mayors, thank you. Annalise Onally's coming through with the deputy mayor. I forgot that dogs are allowed to deputize their front Literally, what are we talking about. Oh my god, When I have a dog, it's gonna be awesome. Oh my god, I'm going to carry it everywhere. What's your dream?

But I know a person that's like a like a dog specialist. I don't know, but he said, tiny, tiny dogs that are cute are actually very easy to adopt because people buy them as an accessory and give them away pretty often, so it's actually not as hard to find like these sexy breeds that you might think you need to shop for. But I would want a Pomeranian, a weenie dog, a little Chihuahua like a little guy.

And then one day I love Chihuahua. Yeah, I would do it.

I'm never gonna have a dog in my life, but if I did, I would have a Chihuahua.

But what I will tell you about wiener dogs.

And I don't know if this is just anecdotal from a couple friends that have had them, they have horrible breath. Not that any dog is like you want to make out with them, but I've heard that wiener dogs have bad breath.

That's interesting. I've been friends with a few. The Dalton's wiener dog loves carrots, like that's his treat at the night, they drop like a half a carrot.

Well, you remember my brother. You've met my brother And I'm like, wait, when did you guys meet? And it's like, oh yeah, the night that the Dalton's wiener dog escaped and we were all on the streets of Hollywood searching for a dog that is, by the way, deaf, so you had to just spot the dog. The dog was not gonna hear your voice calling his name. Yeah, that was oh, thank god we found that dog. I thought that the Daltons were going to die.

Well, yeah, I know they rest, But I want a Corgi in my life, in your heart of hearts, you want a Corgi.

Wow, you're so royal.

Yeah, I just like a little fuzzy idiot Like I just and like a.

Smiling little dope.

And that's but a Corgi doesn't fulfill my fantasy of being able to bring it everywhere. So that'll be a later in lifetime, right right. Yeah, Like, look, I have a home. I'm a little it's a little different. I might have some other people to help take care of.

But sure, yeah, because you can't like throw a corky in your person like go off, who knows. I bet you money we are gonna get some dms of people with like their corky in a reusable bag.

But like, corkis are the animals that I lose my shit over on the streets more often.

Oh, Jared loves corkies.

Yeah, Like when I see a corky, I'm like, oh, like I get really.

Uh yeah, I think it's so funny. Their center of gravity is so low. Well that's like a Weeni dog too.

And I like when they mix Corgies with other p and then a Bernie Mountain dog is awesome. But I refuse to pick up a big shit like that's not happening. Tiny tiny Pomeranian Shihuahua.

No, I think.

I think New Finland's are very cute too, but it's like they drooled their hairs everywhere, like I can't.

I would even do as I said, a mini like mini greyhound, I would do that. I would wishbone, a Jack Wrussell Terrier wishbone.

I would get one of those, like a little guy. I want a little guy.

Those those greyhounds are beautiful, those little they're so sleek and like beautiful.

I don't know, I just love those little creatures.

There's a cool photo of Kylie Jenner with a bunch of them, and it's a dream.

It's a it's a goal lifestyle goal.

I just heard something where like they posed for her and Travis Scott, right, they posed for all these like photos together, but apparently in real life they're like not a couple.

They're just like co parenting, but they're not together. I believe that.

But like, if you're going to be in a fake relationship and just get sperm for someone, like, isn't there better people you could have gotten it from? Like did they get along and date eventually? Like what was it with?

Maybe? I mean she.

Probably just wants her kids to have be from maybe the same people I know.

But so they were together, Yes, yes.

I think they were together and like maybe, oh no, people like Astra World.

Never mind, he is very to me.

I'm just like, I don't know, he doesn't do it was really bad well that's what the album was. I remember people really liked him. Yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen. But I also don't know.

But he had an album called Astro World.

Yeah, and like, baby, what the fuck is their baby's name? Stormy Stormy at an Astro World a Stormy World themed.

First birthday party? Like it is? Uh, it's like a word he uses all the time. Oh so that's why. Then that's what the festival is named after. I didn't understand that. Yeah, okay, I didn't know that.

No, it's fucked up and these people are just bad people like him denying it, Alec Baldwin saying it's not his fault anymore, and he didn't pull the track.

It's like, what is up?

Like, you guys did terrible things feel but it's the Erica Jane of it all. It's like, if you're not taking accountability over what you've done, I don't fuck you.

I don't know.

Yeah, this holiday season, take accountability for the crimes that you've committed. That's our message from that's messed up.

I do have a gingerbread dress and it's like, which party am I gonna wear it?

Too? Oh?

Yes, Well we're doing something this week that you were considering wearing it too, right, Yeah, maybe.

We're the there will be a store party and that, or do I save it for Christmas? But I do need to wear because I don't know if it's too early, like weeks that we're taping this ahead of time, you know, because of the holidays.

You guys get it right, But.

By now you probably already saw the gingerbread dress on Instagram and you know that I wore it.

Yeah.

Well, I listened to a podcast called Rona and Beverly Forever that I was obsessed with, and they used to always say, we're in the time machine. We're in the time machine, like they would always talk about like when they were taping versus, like their interviews would be like off of the time, like of when you think something happened, they're like, we're in the time machine. Just so sometimes you guys have to understand that we're in the time.

Yeah, because you know, Kara went away for Christmas. We'll see what happens.

Yeah, But I mean, I just can't believe your siblings won't even do a secret Santa Colin, if you're listening, what the fuck? Actually, No, I'll say Colin was kind of pro It was my brothers, David and Kevin and my sister Caitlin that were like, no, I don't get it. I think Kevin has two kids and he's like, I got enough going on. And David's like, just paid off all of his students. My brother is debt free, just paid off all his student loans. I'm so happy for him.

Such a sick world that that I know.

I know he's like in his mid early mid thirties and he's like, isn't that it sad that we all celebrated it on a text thread together? But anyway, what is your What's this something that you're looking forward to doing at Christmas? Is there like a Christmas song you like? Is there a Christmas treat you? Like?

What's your Christmas thing?

I just I love any holiday where the point of the holiday is to lay around, eat, drink and do nothing. So I want hot chocolate with peppermint schnops, Like, that's definitely something that I need to do.

I know that my.

Friend is going to be making some sort of Italian seafood soup on Christmas Eve, but I'm looking forward to being in the mountains snow lounging, hot chocolate. You know I love a gift stockings. Maybe well, I don't know if we'll watch The Family Stone, but that's the movie I like the most.

Yeah, oh you like that movie? Yeah, great, that's the best one.

But and I'm gonna be on Brian Moylan's podcast Twelve Days of Christmas. I'll be talking about stepmom a little different. And what are you excited about this holiday season?

Uh?

You know, I'm excited that my kids are gonna meet their little cousins, like they've met once, but like I've never met my one of my nephews, I've never met him yet.

He's eighteen months old. I've never met him nineteen months old.

And I'm excited for like the like the kid excitement about Christmas is so cute. Like, you know, for a long time, for me, it was like I went home, my mom got me some stuff.

I was like, great, where's the receipt? I need to return it?

And then you know, I would just get really drunk with my family. And now I'm just gonna like, you know, put my kids to bed, get really drunk with my family and then watch them be happy about President. So I think it'll be it's just a reverse order of operations, but it'll be fun. And I'm going to see some friends at home, and I'm hoping to go into the city one night and see our friend Allison, whose birthday it is.

She's got one of those.

She's a Jew with a very close to Christmas birthday, so I'd like to go see her for her birthday. And my little my brother's gonna have a little holiday party. So yeah, we like to drink, we like to tie one on and then I go in id talks over in West Virginia with Jared's family because they don't drink really well.

Yeah, because I love Great Lakes Christmas aale, but I already had some this year so in Chicago, so that that's set up.

But yeah, I just I'm also buying.

Lindsay Adams makes cookie butters and I ordered some cookie butter from her.

Oh I saw those on her Instagram, delicious looking.

Oh my lord, I'll do that. I'm excited.

I'm just I like, I did not grow up with Christmas, so to me like any version of an American thing. If I could wear a flannel, some slippers, go in the I just say okay, yeah, and my friends have amazing dogs that really we bond, So I'm excited.

What will your.

Parents like be doing on Christmas? It's like any other day for them. They'll just like live their lives.

Yeah.

I mean, if I was home, we would have gone to the movies, but like, I don't think they'll do anything out of the ordinary.

And my sister's going to Mexico.

But what's coming out at Christmas? That's good because I love to go to the movies on Christmas. I saw Django on Christmas. I've seen a lot of Christmas. I saw the favorite at Christmas, I think, or maybe Thanksgiving, one of the two. I would love to see something on Christmas. Anything coming out, I.

Have no idea. If it's not House of Gucci, I have no idea. But also I feel kind of like a loser because I didn't think it was that bad. And everyone I've talked to or any podcasts I listened to, They're like, it's an abomination. God is humiliating herself. Don't even see it's not even good bad And I'm.

Like, I don't know. I gave it a six. I don't care. I had a good time.

Well, I wonder if it's like you know, sometimes it's tone that misses it, you know, like if you're saying, oh, it's camp, it's supposed to be like kind of over the top, and other people are watching it like it's an Oscar contender, You're gonna have different opinions.

Well, what Michelle Collins said that I will give to her is that how do you make Italy not look beautiful? Like, this is a movie about a legendary fashion house in one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Why didn't we see fashion or Italy and that way?

Did they not shoot it in Italy because of COVID or something. I wonder if it's like shot in other places or something.

I have no idea. That's that's above my head, above my pay grade.

Your pay grade as a Hollywood location scout.

Yeah, don't know.

I like I said, like everyone knows, I fell fully asleep for most of House of Gucci.

So I'm planning to hopefully watch it again.

Oh my god, you know what everyone's probably thinking what we're recording. The Sex and the City reboot has premiered already. Oh my god, you guys are probably like, what are these bitches doing.

They're not even mentioning, second, when does it come out tomorrow? Okay, so we'll talk about it next week on New Year. We're in the time machine. We're in the time machine. But you guys are probably listening a week after week being.

Like these bitches aren't even gonna mention Gary Bradshaw. But uh, mister big Chris notth just did an interview defending Sarah Jessica about what against Kim Cotrell.

Oh wait, what did Kim Catrell say? I don't even know the new.

Nothing new, there's nothing new, but he was just like he just recently was like nothing she said was true. And Sarah Jessica is the best, and I'm very protective of her, and like.

The thing is too.

I love Kim Katrell and I want her to thrive and I want her to do great. I did see her scatting with her husband on a sixty minute special like many of us did, so you wonder you know, is everything okay? But she is like Sarah Jessica Parker's like up there with like Mrsca Hargacy level of like the way people have that we have worked with her. Everyone loves her so it's kind of hard to come out against somebody like that's pretty much universally revered.

Yeah, a true dream of a woman. Okay, let's get started.

Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas and happy Holidays and happy Uh.

Well, we'll talk to you guys.

Before the new year about we we want everyone to have a joyous holiday season, whether or not you celebrate.

Let's get going.

We've got a good I don't know, I've we've.

Got a hot Christmas episode for you.

All right, deck the halls with lots of sex crimes. Okay, so we are doing today one of what I can I think the only Christmas the episode I could find any we could find, right, Like, I mean, this is called Presumed Guilty, Season fourteen, episode ten. It aired January second of twenty thirteen, so it's a little bit after the holidays, but it's very Christmas y. That's so against TV rules. I always do it before. That's tid to do a January Christmas eve.

Yeah.

So we open this episode on an absolutely disgusting concept, which is a Christmas party in a morgue.

I'm I'm not into it.

There's literally food spread out where Warner is usually pulling a liver out and putting on a scale and like now we're like and we've seen burned ass fingers get rehydrated, and now it's like, would you like some perjudo? Like, no, thank you, I'm our svping no to this party, Like you guys need to rent out the back of an olive garden or something.

Don't you think what is happening?

Well, I don't know if the Emmys it's their part, Like there's a few holiday parties. Maybe it's not the official SVU. This is the Morgus party, and maybe their budgets tighter.

I don't know.

I have an I'd rather you all be crammed into fucking Warner's apartment and watch this go down.

I didn't even notice.

U uh literally, I've watched this episode like three times for.

This, and I.

Didn't even notice that that was weird. The whole gang is in the fucking Morgue. Rollins is leaning up against those literal sliding thingies, the doors where the bodies come out. She's nodding up against one, and there's a fucking there's a fucking skeleton with a Santa hat on, like they're trying to be cute about it, and they are.

I are trying to repute about it. I'm embarrassed I didn't notice.

Well, especially somebody who notices Halloween. You always notice the date on the cards, and you're like two days before Halloween where the decoration so basically Rollins is leaning up against a fucking literal dead body being chatted up by a dork. And the first thing I think is I know this guy, And it turns out I do know

The Tina fe movie. And this guy named.

Daniel Raymont was in that show on that show, so I do sort of know him. And you can also all drink because I revealed another job that I've had that you probably.

Didn't know about.

So he is the driver for the Emmy's office and he drives the hers, I guess, and he's really trying to connect with Amanda, who has like got classic get me the fuck out of her face? And oh, and I point out the skeleton here, and I'm like, this is what Rosie would call a scholeton. She's very obsessed with all the spooky stuff from Halloween and calls skeletons schooletons.

And I think we all know who it is. Is it Tucker? No, I think we're supposed to all think it's Cassidy. Got it?

Yeah, So now we're at a house with a ton of kids opening presence, and.

Was Cassidy affording his Bahamas vacation?

Oh? Fuck?

Have I know? I don't know overtime, I don't know.

This is like after I believe this is right after the whole Captain Craigan thing with Bart Ganzel and all that stuff where he was undercover with Bart Ganzel and all that. So in the next scene, we're at a house and there's a ton of kids opening presence and a woman is sitting next to a priest being like, thanks for doing this, father, And the priest is played by Dennis O'Hare, who is a classic character actor and

But like it's also twenty thirteen.

I guess Spotlight didn't come out until twenty fifteen, but it seems like we've been knowing about the Catholic Church being terrible for a long time.

But you're gonna say something Lisa, Oh.

I my breath was like, or you're like, I guess it's been going on for a while, and it's like, yeah, yeah.

It's like a hack.

The fact that like it is hack to make jokes about priests raping kids like that is how often and it happens, and how dated it it Like it is a hacky premise. Yeah, that's how many priests are raping children constantly.

That it is just like, come, you don't have better material?

Yeah, like it already had its full upward trajectory into the public consciousness, hit its tipping point and then went over to the point where now it's like, come on, man, that's an old joke, even though yeah, probably still happening every day anyway. So now Father Shay is in his car. A little girl comes running up and she's like, father, I forgot you give you your Christmas card. She hops

This is not the best actress we've seen.

Remember when they were doing the episode about the American idol type show with Billy porter and she was like, how do I be a singer? And he goes practice and she goes, you're silly, daddy. She's just not a good actress. Fuck this kid, Zarah. But we hope here I am dbah. Go take a trip to fucking Disney World and get out of my face. So she gives her dat a Christmas list and it is extensive, like I don't think she understands how much money her dad makes.

It's like, how about just the dog.

So back at the car, this little girl is like giving Father Shay the full rundown of the Christmas card, like this is this, this is that. Her name is Sophia, and he gives her a big hug and is like, you're very special, Sophia, thank you for my card whatever.

And just as he's giving her this.

Big hug, someone shows up to the a passenger side window and starts crowbarring it, like smashing it in. He tells Sophia to run. A guy pulls Father Shay out of the car and starts beating the shit out of him. Back at Amorrow's we you know, we're flip flopping back to Amorrow's place. He's on the phone with Maria, his ex. We find out that Zara is headed to DC on Christmas Eve to be with her mom, So you know,

Wow?

You just to join the squad. Yeah, I'm mad at these neighbors. So they're all saying that the opposite happened, that this guy is the one that beat up the priest, and that two guys stopped the guy from beating up the priest and then ran off. And so the guy in the beanie is like, it wasn't me, I swear, And my brother in law is on the job. Okay, So back at the creepy Morgue party, Finn's ex wife, Teresa Lisa Gay Hamilton, Right, that's her.

Yeah, she shows up looking for you. If you remember her from Sex and the City. She's Miranda's neighbor with the baby who won't stop crying, who gives her the vibrating chair.

Yes, Kendall is the baby or the woman.

I'm Ken and Amika. It's like Amika and Kendall but too Yeah. So Finn's wife shows up looking for Finn. So we're starting to figure out that the guy they arrested.

Is Sam Randall.

He's Teresa's brother, Finn's ex wife, so he's Finn's ex brother in law. She rushes up to Finn, who, I don't know if you clocked this is maybe flirting with Warner Like they're leaning up against the morgue like wall together. She has her hand on his fucking shoulder. She's giggling and when the when she sees the ex wife, she's kind of like, oh, like her face changes. I'm saying, watch it again, like it's very I think something's up.

And do you know what now that you mentioned this, why wouldn't why wouldn't they have fucked?

Yeah, like it's it's very flirty Christmas, you know, and also those Christmas vibes of like it's cold, it's the end of the year. Why the fuck not. Well, we'll all be on a long break and probably forget about it. There'll be no awkwardness when we come back to work.

No, now, I'm we need some fan fiction, ye shout out to the to the listeners. We would love some fan fiction of Melinda and Ice getting it all and maybe their couple name could be too to Tuny no to to to Warner. So Teresa, Finn's ex wife, tells him what's up, and he's kind of like, yeah, he's a deadbie. He's in and out of jail, and she's like, he didn't do it, Finn. He's been obsessed with spending Christmas with his son for the first time in six years.

He's back in trouble.

Like and then basically Teresa gets a phone call from Ken and has to roll because we all know Ken Finn's son is like, you know, the one that keeps everybody in the family together. So Finn's like, Famili's complicated,

They're in another jurisdiction.

At the precinct, Sam is handcuffed to like a railing and he's like, what I'm guilty of is being black, and it's like he's right, like literally this crowd of people were like it was the black guy that did it, and like the cop just believe the crowd of people. So he explains that he was trying to save the priests. These guys were calling him short eyes and chomo, which chomo I've heard before on this show as a slang

Sye your eyes are on short little kids. Yeah, like your eyes go down to see small people.

Yeah. Yeah.

Finn's like, you just made up that child molester part because you know I'm in SVU, and he's like, no, it's a truth. And then he tells them also about this little girl who he saw running away from the scene, and he's like, listen, I don't need a car and I don't want to go back to jail. Why would I do this? And that's making a lot of sense,

No, I get where Ice is coming from here, but it's like I always hate when the detectives are not open minded and have made their decision and are just like beating against a dead bush. I don't know, like it's It's one of my most uh when I'm most irritated, is when the detectives abandon their like pursuit of the evidence and developing their point of view and just go in guns blazing with what they think happened.

Well, so anyway, Sam is like, I really got to get home for Christmas, Like you got to help me out. So then they go talk to the copp arrested him and he's like, this is pretty open and shut. The witnesses said it was him, and Rowlins is like, witnesses can be wrong. And then she's like, where are these two guys they took off. They're supposed to be good Samaritans and they split. That's kind of weird. And then like the priest is unconscious and the cop knows nothing

So then they open the car, they find the card signed.

From Sophia, and then they also live clocks a security cam, so let's go check that footage. They look at the footage and the attack itself is not on camera, but you it does fit the timeline, like you see Sam seeing something and running towards it, and like that obviously looks like someone going to help someone.

And now finally someone goes, let's look into the priest. What's his deal? You know, like we're hearing priests and Trad Molister.

It's not our first rodeo here at SVU, Like, let's figure out what his background is. They discover he's worked at an orphanage in Guatemala. He's been to Boston, Chicago, Saten Island Inwood.

We all know a.

Priest that moves around a lot is not a great sign in a car late at night with a little girl. Like Olivia's pointing this all out and it's like, thank you, Olivia. Someone's finally kind of getting a getting a beat on what's going on with this fucking priest. The hospital calls to say that the priest is awake and tomorrow is like,

So anyway, I also, I.

Mean, I guess it's Christmas, but like for me, I'm always I want to go tropical, Like I can't imagine doing an as spin or a Swiss weeekend like yeah, or wherever gesshad is like I would never leave a cold place and go to another.

Cold place, right right, Well, do you ski?

Absolutely not same. I've never put skis on in my life. So I'll sit in a hot tub and watch people ski.

Yeah.

Oh I'm into the app prey ski very deeply. Like I would love some hot chocolate, some red wine and some hot tubbing.

And I like to ice skate. I don't know if that's ever an option. I love ice skating. I didn't know that about you. Let's get a rink and let's go. Let's go ice skating.

Let's go fucking ice skating. There's got to be free skates or rentals whatever. We have to go ice skating, Yes, for sure.

Maybe one of the last times ice skated was in Vegas because the Cosmopolitan has a rink at Christmas time, we have to go ice skating. No children, though, No, no, no no. I don't want to teach Rosiat to ice skate yet. It's it's not even fun. That's just like me holding a dead body around that ice rink for like two hours being terrified.

Yeah.

So basically, uh, they're like, Okay, Barba's out of town, so let's go sweet talk. Whichever ada is like covering for him over the holidays. So we cut to a walk and talk with this guy and hell yeah, it's fucking Todd from Zoolander.

I love this actor.

He is also from The Comeback and he is so so funny, but he's very serious in this one, and he is not buying what Rollins and Live are selling. But I do love his attitude even though he's like wrong. I like his like he's sort of just like uh uh, you know, even though he's wrong. So he's like, I'm not gonna ro r a guy who's on parole and lives like this is a family matter, and he's like, okay, Peace, you should not have even fucking mentioned that I'm not

I'm back in town visiting.

He lives in Guatemala presently, I guess, and he just comes back to town every Christmas to visit his sister for the holidays, and he likes to pop in on his old parishioner. So that's why he was at this little holiday party giving all these kiddos presents at the

He's like, I don't know if this is legit.

I can't show this to a judge, like you could have coerced him into this confession, which I guess that is playing by the book.

I wish that it was like a little bit more. I feel bad for Sam, but.

And they can't speak to the arresting officer in the case because he already left for vacation in the Dominican Republic. Poor Sam's son, Dante is in the courtroom and he's like, it's very heartbreaking. The EIGHTYA requests remand since he's a repeat offender on parole and he allegedly attacked a clergyman, I don't know why it matters, uh, but you know, obviously judges are probably gonna feel some kind of way more about clergymen than they do about regular people.

Yeah, it's another profession where you wear a row, you have complete power and control and you can't be fired, and you can commit as many crimes as you want and be a hypocrite. Yeah, judges and priests are very similar. Yeah, you're right. Oh my gosh, so true.

So basically, the judge grants remand and now Sam is going to be in jail over the holidays, and Dante is so really cute, and.

You get a soul, get a soul who like, what the fuck these people are just cold blooded?

I guess to be a fucking prop secure you have to be I don't know.

Yeah, So Dante is like, please, Finn, help my daddy get out of jail for Christmas. So now we kind of are like, you know, working against a clock to try to get Sam out of jail for the holidays, and it's he's a cute kid. So Finn is basically like telling Teresa, his ex wife, what's up. He's like, look, you're on parole. You don't jump into a fight. You call line one one.

And it's really sad that there are so.

Many reasons like this where that people have to not help other human beings, like your parole status, your immigration status. Like there's so many reasons why people just walk by or they just videotape something. You know that our reasons kind of be on their control in some situations. So then Finn and Rollins go off to talk to little Sophia and then Live in Tomorrow go talk to the current priest of the parish, whose name is Menendez, and they're kind of asking him, like, what's the story with

So they talked to Sofia.

She's super cute and she's and the mom's like, yeah, honey, isn't father say so amazing?

And you know this is a This is.

Like a little bit of you can't tell whether the little kid's like taking cues from her mom or not.

They kind of make this muddy on.

Purpose, and she says, the bad guys who beat up father Shay. Spoke Spanish and we're wearing hoodies, and she said the good guy was a black guy who tried to save father Shay. So another witness coming forward to corroborate Sam's story. At the medical Examiner's office, Melinda is

Okay, I was. I was.

I cannot believe that I've never clocked this in my life before. But anyway, so Rollins, this might be like.

My purple thing and we're gonna forever now, I like read into every interaction.

Yeah, now there's.

Gonna be like scenes will be like is that a picture of Warner in Finn's wallet? So anyway, Rollin's and Finn go to track down this guy, Benitez, who is a Salvation Army Santa. And for some reason, there are four Salvation Army Santas, one on every corner, and they don't know which one it is, so they just say his name. They're like Benitez, and he bolts and Rollin's fucking tackles him, and it's just a funny visual and

Well, when we get back from this.

Alleged commercial, Father Shay is arguing with the Monsignor Menendez and he's going, no, not this time, And when Live and Tomorrow show up, they kind of zip their lips and then they find a one way ticket to Guatemala that I don't know is sitting on the bed or he's like handing it to him and lives like, what's going on. We'd kind of prefer if you didn't go anywhere, since you're a huge part of this active investigation, and he's basically like.

Can you come an id these suspects that we have?

And then they do a little bit of digging and they find out that this one way ticket was purchased by, surprise, surprise, the archdiocese.

They go to talk to Enrique.

They get Enrique's full story on tape and he's basically explaining that his sister Angelica was twelve when the abuse started. He was six teen and his mom thought they would all be safe at Catholic school. But then something went on with Angelica. She started drinking, smoking pot. His mom said she was a sinner. And then he said, Angelica gets crazy at the holiday.

She came to Thanksgiving Stone, so I went off on her.

She broke down and said he's never been there for her before, especially the Christmas when she was thirteen and she got pregnant and he made her have an abortion. And he says he never knew any of this stuff. And all that time with Father Shay, he thought that she was that she was being counseled by him, and he said it happened because she was evil and that she seduced him. So Father Shay said he was trying

Wild wild stuff in that Bible of yours.

So liv says, if your sister can corroborate, a jury would understand why you did what you did.

And he says, no, no, no.

Angelica is in rehab, she's a mess, asks Shay yourself, he'll confess to what he did.

I'm sure.

Meanwhile, Finn and Rollins try to get Sam out and this pissy eightya guy will not budge, and he's like, you got to get Father Shay to id the actual guys who did it, which seems insane because they have both confessed, so it seems weird that you would also need an identification. And the two witnesses are also saying that he was a good Samaritan, so I would think he would be covered by a New York Good Samaritan law, Like remember the Seinfeld finale when they violated this good

Going no, no, no, no, no, no no, but he's also saying God forgive me.

And then they go to another commercial break, like on a very confusing vibe, like what's going on? Like he's saying no, he's saying this didn't happen, but also saying God forgive me.

So what is up?

This is a packed fourth act, by the way, this last act of the episode for how SPU usually goes down, there's no, uh, not a lot of trial stuff in this episode. So anyway, Finn and Rollin's go pay a visit to Angelica. They tell her she could help Enrique if she testifies that she was abused and i'd the abuser, and then they bring a bunch of priests in for a lineup, which I do not understand why that's necessary, Like she knows the name of the priest who assaulted her,

So we're like, what is going on here?

And he says, she confessed to him and so that's a confession and that's protected, and Tomorrow is like, you're not allowed to use confession to cover up a crime, so he knows.

He's kind of getting cornered.

Rollins and Live are still talking to Angelica and she's like, this priest made me get an abortion, but it wasn't father Shay. Father Shay found me bleeding after my abortion and helped me and I she confessed everything to him, and she's really apprehensive about telling them.

Like who what the name is of the person?

Okay, Father Shay knows who molested Angelica, but tells Tomorrow that he can't tell him because of his vows.

Wait, BT dubs have you seen Shake Huleh is the Grinch who stole Christmas?

Very sexual Grinch. How much makeup is that?

Because she has another number in that show, like for one number, getting into full Grinch makeup and then dancing so sexy.

I like what.

I think she wore a Grinch thing on drag Race at one point.

I don't remember that. Maybe it was the Christmas special.

Maybe I think I've seen her in a Grinch thing on television, but I don't.

I'm not sure by but it is so good, the dance is so good. So you know, Quen.

Sexy monsters all the time. It's really funny.

Yeah.

She also recently in her stories, I couldn't believe it, started singing a jingle. Oh I told you this, a jingle from Chicago, a fur store. Feel the warmth of luxury that you deserve Andreanifer's. I mean, I couldn't believe it, Like my mind exploded when I saw her singing that. Anyways, get back to these molesting priests confessions secrets Enrique, Angelica, Sophia.

So many holiday you gotta talk about priests so God. Basically, Father Shay says he knows who molested Angelica, but tells Tomorrow that he won't tell him who it is because of his vows, and he's like, I promise this bad priest swore he wouldn't.

Do it anymore.

And Tomorrow's kind of like, come on, dog, like, first of all, that's not true. Second of all, I can't take your word for that shit, Like I'm doing my job here. And Tomorrow's like putting on the pressure and he's like, you're covering up for a pedophile, and he's like, who.

Could mean this much to you?

Like why would this mean so much to you to not like turn this person in? And basically it hits Tomorrow and he goes, oh, I'm sorry, father. So essentially Tomorrow figures it out that they're looking at the wrong sin and that father Shay Twist is Sophia's dad.

The reason he's covering this.

All up is because he doesn't want it to get out that he committed an indiscretion as a priest, fathered a child. That hurts Margarita, that hurts Sophia, that hurts him, like, it's just like he wants it to keep it all in.

No, I'm sorry, I don't. It's not about all these people. It's about him. He wants to keep being a priest, right.

But what happened was Menendez the monsignor. He knew about this because Margarita confessed to him that they were in love. So Shae went to Menendez and Menendez said, can you hear my confession? And he told Father Shay what he did to Angelica, And then he said, once he confessed to me, I was bound by my vows.

Again.

I still don't think you're allowed to cover up crimes in a confession, but maybe I'm wrong. Like I think, like there's doctor client privilege, but if there's a crime, you have to report it.

I don't I think.

But and Olivia's like, you endangered other girls. But he's like he promised he would never do it again and lives like were you born yesterday? Pedophiles are great at lying. He goes no. Margarita keeps an eye on him, and I come back every year for ten years to hear his confession. And I really don't think he's hurt anyone else since Angelica.

It's like, okay, dude, and.

She's like, you are legally obligated to report a crime, and you have to testify against Menendez and he kind of understands that that's what's up, and Amarro's like, your transgression is going to come out, so maybe you want to give your little baby girl, Sophia a heads up. So now Enrique is talking to Angelica, explaining to him that it wasn't Father Shay, and he assumed because Father Shay got sent away that that's what happens when there's a pedophile priest. And I just feel very bad for

Can you let him out? And they're like that's not how it.

Works, girl, Like it's just very sad, like they're just two people that are very broken by the greedy actions of pedophile men. So Finn is on the phone with Teresa being like, I know it's Christmas Eve. I'm working on this NonStop. She hangs up on him. It's like okay, But then Finn gets an idea. He shows up to

And he's like, all.

Right, but he's your responsibility and Finn's like yeah, yeah, yah, I got him.

So then Sam is free. It's a Christmas miracle.

But Live is about to shit can her Behavian vacation to go after Menendez and Amorro's like no, no, no, just go, I've got this and Lives like, no, no, no, I handle these things. And Amarro's like, girl, get on that plane and get a mye tie.

I'll handle this.

And he's like this is my Christmas gift to you, and she goes, I want jewelry next year. Cute they hug and then we see Finn bringing home Sam for little Dante and it's so sweet. I actually teared up at this, like I just thought it was so cute.

It's also Chris, you're gonna let this woman eat alone in her house of course?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so all like Christmas music starts to swell, and this is like, there is this like a show called The Killing that Jared and I used to watch.

At the end of The Killing, they would always.

Do like a little thing where music would play and they would show you what every.

Character was doing.

And Jared would always saying, it's the part of The Killing where they check in on everybody, And so I thought this was like the part of SVU where they check in on everybody. So we're seeing everybody. The Christmas music is swelling, We're like getting everybody's little end of

We cut to Live on the plane.

She's talking a Nick on the phone and she's like, okay, great, great, you got him, Okay, awesome, hangs up, and then we see her hold a man's hand, but we do not see his body. Some sneaky dick wolf shit, but it's definitely Cassidy. And then the next scene, Amorrow is at the church and he's heading up the stairs to arrest this guy when we hear bang bang bang gunshots. This is like a very twisty ending. To me, I thought that the music meant okay, everything's gonna like just end.

Yeah, it's just sad.

It's very white lotus where it's like great, So the victims of everything just end up going to jail forever.

Yeah, Yeah, she's gonna go to jail for a bit. Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure the jury will consider that this is a priest who molested her enforce her to have an abortion, are we.

I mean, how many cases have we covered up women being executed.

Their past?

Like right, you're right, and people fucking love priests no matter what.

Well, I can't wait for you to tell us more about that, or when we get back from our break, I'll let you know. This was the easiest, most succinct, simple crime to research.

JK all right, welcome back. We're going to talk about Catholic sex crimes. Is that a new Dick Wolf show?

Maybe?

Yeah.

So you know, like what's really hard about this is it's global. You know, it's like Australia, Ireland, South America. Anywhere where there's a church, there's abuse happening. So it was kind of daunting in a way, and it's just it's really unfathomable and it's probably like the biggest metaphor to our lives as humans is just this institution doesn't have to pay taxes, openly molest children and no one cares.

No one fucking cares.

It is so weird generations and it's ongoing. It has not really like stopped in any way. So and from like when we record this to when you guys listen, there's probably gonna be a new article that comes out with like new abuse.

It's really like there's never really a break.

So well, we're gonna start with like just some recent Catholic sex crimes, and then we'll go down to the overall history of when there's moments of prominence and people pretend to care, and then we'll go into more specific things that have like cases that are very similar to the episode, but not exactly because there's not like a specific crime, but it's fucking Christmas. This is the Christmas episode and we're winging it and so that's what's happening.

Do you think it's so because.

It's sau Yeah, but I love Jean.

Marc Suave is like a great fucking name.

So this guy, he's the president of the Independent Commission of Sexual Abuse in the Church CIASEE, and he authored this French report and that's he said that the abuse is systemic and not limited to a few black sheep that's strayed at all. So in France, between nineteen fifty and twenty twenty, around three thousand out of one hundred and fifteen thousand priests were found to be abusers.

And that's in one country. Yeah, that's not a massive country either.

And this this guy, Francois de Vois, who is that I should go to France.

I think they'd get a kick out of me. He's the head of.

The abuse victims group La Parole libret I mean stop it, I can't libery.

Noadly Berat is probably right.

He told the clergy men to their face in this like giant hearing really slowly. They made a point to write that he was like very deliberate in his the way he said it. There was a betrayal, a betrayal of trust, betrayal of morality, betrayal of children, betrayal of innocence of your own people, betrayal of the gossip, betrayal of the original message. It's a betrayal of everything. Will you just do a pickup?

Will you just do a pickup of a betrayal of the gospel, not the gossip.

No, I didn't, No, I didn't. You do not want to betray gossip. Gossip is your friend.

It is the gospel, guys, but gossip is my gospel.

So that was like really cool.

So this recent report says that the Catholic Church is the place where the prevalence of sexual violence is at its highest outside of family and friend circle. So of all all the places anyone can commit sexual violence, the Catholic Church is number one.

That is wild.

And one of the archbists shops was like, oh my god, it's more than we ever could have imagined, and it's like, really, we've been saying, it's like so shocking that people ever

June twenty twenty one. I know we're like bouncing around.

Cardinal Reinhard Marx, who was a leader in Germany's Roman Catholic Church and a member of Pope Francis's advisory council, resigned in a personal gesture to take responsibility of sexual abuses by priests. But he didn't commit any crimes, but he wanted to share the response instability and make a statement, and the Pope was like, you can't do that, and didn't let him do it. But I also don't know, it's like, why are you making this about you?

You didn't commit these crimes.

Why don't you just work instead of these symbolic actions of like resigning.

Why at the same time.

He's an innocent person that probably can't affect huge change, and so he's like, I'll give up my whole fucking life to the church, that I'd given my life to the church, and I'll give up my name just to call some attention to this shit.

And the Catholic Church is like, no.

Yeah, So June twenty twenty one, I mean, these are just recent cases. Like that's what I was trying to do. I was just like gonna talk about like what's happened in the past year, and it's everywhere.

It's really kind of wild.

So June twenty twenty one, the Catholic Church in Poland discloses hundreds of sexual abuse accusations. According to The New York Times, you can tell I have a subscription. Church authorities said they received three hundred and sixty eight reports of sexual abuse from July twenty eighteen through the end of twenty twenty. That is a year and a half, three hundred and sixty eight reports, and like half of

So young people are leaving the church.

But Poland is very conservative, devout Catholics. There's been some resignations in Poland, some forced early retirements. Archbishop and his name is Pollock. I don't know what to tell you this. It's it's Archbishop pole, it's Polak. I'm not saying a slur. It is what it's. It's that's his name. There's nothing he can do about it.

So Archbishop Pollock said that the church deserved the public's trust and that its system for responding to harm against miners is working. So they're deranged. They're deranged, like it's yeah.

So yeah.

So other recent scoop from the New York Times is like Fall of twenty twenty one is about a Brooklyn bishop and who the Vatican cleared of charges from the nineteen seventies when he was a young priest in Jersey City. Truly cleared it. I don't understand what's happening. There are two civil live lawsuits left from that, but the Church will not discipline them at all. The bishop denies any in all wrongdoing and said in his fifty year ministry he has never abused anybody.

I don't know.

The Bishop Demarcio allegations started to pop up just one month after Pope Francis chose him to investigate the handling

You really cared about actually like ridding your institution of these people. You would hire a third party to come do the investigation, Like if you don't want it to be the government or whatever because of biases or whatever, you think that you can hire like third party.

You know, Oh we'll get there. You don't think that.

You don't think the cops in the judicial system have covered up and helped the church get away with crimes.

Girl, what podcasts are we doing? Yeah?

So?

And then with these civil lawsuits that I just mentioned, and like what's happening, especially in New York and on the East Coast.

There's been like a.

Wave of people coming forward and that stemmed from a twenty eighteen giant report from the Pennsylvania Grand Jury that documented a decade's long history of clergy sex abuse there. That grand jury report in Pennsylvania is out of control.

So, yeah, are they sla I don't.

I ambulance chasing seems slimy, but in this case.

I don't.

Here take all the fucking Catholic churches money. They don't pay taxes.

Yeah. So, and the New York dioceses then released the list of all clergymen that had credible accusations of abuse.

So they released this.

List, and then different organizations and like legal firms create to interactive databases of all those names, so if you're someone that was abused, you can go into this database, find your priest, and then go to your lawyer. The fact that there's a whole database, it's like it's so telling. I mean, I don't think I'm like revealed, Like maybe these cases are new to people, but I don't think I'm revealing anything new.

Can I ask a question?

Might be stupid, but I hope I know the answer, Like why are you moving priests? Like if you find out that a priest been like molesting people, why not just like fire the priest and be like, hey, the priest decided to move to fucking Guatemala and just fire them and like nobody, you know, you don't report it.

Whatever.

Are you in such a shortage for priests that you're just gonna allow them to go to a different parish and keep molesting.

Well, I think that's like what the French guy was saying, where it's like it's deliberate cover ups and they have a disdain for victims, like they don't care.

It's callous and mean.

I think these like I think your question is like, why don't they act in faith since they're people of God and they're not. They're flawed individuals. They are not the body of crime. They are people. We know tons of people. People are bad, you know, and so I think it's bad people protecting their friends and the institution and they don't want things to get out so they can continue to grift.

These are grifters. These are criminal grifters. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know why you wouldn't just fire someone because then it's attention, and then that person gets charged and then they go to jail, and the people don't trust the church, and their whole thing is secrecy. They're trying to keep it as secret as possible. But you're right, they're endangering one.

Yeah, because to me, it's like it's a secret. And so if you fire them and then just tell them to fucking take off in the middle of the night, that can be that's more secretive to me than keeping them in your community. But in another country where they're going to do it again, and then it's going to be like, now there's a fucking trail. Now you've shown that this person commits this crime over and over again, so it seems stupid.

But I don't know. Yeah, maybe they're stupid, But you're right.

I didn't understand the concept of that they blame victims and that they think victims are full of shit or whatever.

Well, yeah, it's just like intimidating and making people shut up.

Yeah, and they can't.

So for basically like August fourteenth, twenty This is actually very confusing and I tried really hard to understand it. So like this New York Child Victims Act started, so from August fourteenth, twenty nineteen, and then the cutoff is August thirteenth, twenty twenty one, you can bring lawsuits from all past crimes no matter what the statue of limitations is. So maybe that cutoff ended, but you had to bring a case by that time. I have actual period, yea, yeah, yeah.

So I think that's good.

And then criminal charges have moved up from the age up to age twenty eight, and the cutoff used to be twenty three as well. I still think that's well whatever, But so yeah, if you are a victim of childhood of ause, you could bring that up to criminal court up until twenty eight if the abuse suffered was under the age of eleven, though there is no deadline now so the government can criminally charge a sexual abuser at any time.

But also so weird how you're like, eleven is the cutoff? Like if it's over eleven, maybe they were asking for it, But if it's under eleven, no, no, no, you know, we got a prosecute.

Like it's just or you know what I mean, like just to choose.

I thought about that for sure, and then I was like, what age would I pick?

Would it be fifteen?

But that's weird and that's inviting something different. But I do think that, like we react different when it's someone that's eight or someone that's fourteen, and should we or should we not?

Or is that natural? Like it is really wild?

Sure, I mean I think it should just be the age of consent though. I mean, I don't know if there's even a way to consent with a clergyman who kind of has like a certain power over you. But like if you're eighteen and I guess you want to have sex with a priest, I guess.

Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, the guilty people are making the rules. I don't know if you saw, like last month there was the video of like Italian Parliament and all these guys in Italian government clapping and cheering because they weren't able to pass protections against harassment in the workplace for like gender disabilities and like all this stuff. Like men were like celebrating that you can continue abusing people. I think the people that are in

I don't know. Yeah.

So yeah, when that legal window opened, its floods of lawsuits happened, and it bankrupted some organizations, which is great. So four out of eight dioceses in New York State became bankrupt, and the Boy Scouts of America also bankrupt from lawsuits because of abuse. The Brooklyn and New York diocese in just one month alone had fifteen hundred claims and just as many civil suits. But they're not bankrupt yet, so I don't know. But so now, so that's like

But nobody cared obviously.

So that came out because we thought, you know, you mentioned earlier about like the Boston Globe article that like inspired the movie Spotlight, and it's like everyone's like that was a revelation, and it's like, nope, there was a revelation in nineteen eighty five, too big article.

I didn't read it, okay, it was it was I couldn't.

In the nineteen nineties, the issue began to grow, with stories popping up in Argentina, Australia, and then in nineteen ninety five the Archbishop of Vienna and Austria stepped down amid some allegations, and that like really rocked the church. And then in Ireland there were revelations of historical abuse. And then by the early two thousand's sexual abuse in the Catholic Church was a major global story.

And I'm sure I remember it.

I mean, like I said, like, it's always been in the background of stuff. And then in two thousand and two the Boston Globe put out this huge investigation and they exposed how pedophile priests were moved around by church leaders instead of being held accountable. And there was a church commissioned report in two thousand and four that said more than four thousand Roman Catholic priests had faced sexual abuse allegations over the last fifty years, involving more than

So yeah, these.

Reports keep coming out and then it's like and then what people still go to church? I don't get it because that's like kind of the vibe that I was seeing where it's like church people are always like, ah, the liberals are like corrupting the youth, and like they're all leaving the church.

And it's like, no, they're leaving the church because you're all.

Hypocrites and they see the hypocrisy and that's why people are leaving.

No one leave, Like, and I have friends who are sending their kids to Catholic school and I'm always kind of like why, and it's like it's usually because in whatever neighborhood they're in, it's a better school, but it's not as expensive as a private school. You know.

It's like that's and you know what does better school mean?

Yeah?

I mean each science? What are they reading? You know, like what is better school?

Yeah?

I don't know.

In twenty eleven, Pope Benedict told bishops that they had to report any suspected cases to local police because previously all cases were supposed to be referred to Rome, so that in twenty eleven they were like, you know what, maybe we should report to authorities.

Yeah, twenty eleven. Yeah.

In August twenty eighteen, Pope Francis wrote to all Roman Catholics condemning clerical sex abuse bold and demanded to end cover ups.

Hey guys, can you stop doing what you're doing? Please? Please?

February twenty nineteen, Francis also announced that sexual abuse, grooming miners for sex, possessing child's pornography, and covering up abuse is a criminal offense under Vatican law. So that was twenty nineteen. That was an announcement. It's just like what I I just don't get it. I don't get support. I don't get it. I don't understand it. I never whying. But like, why was grooming miners for sex chill before twenty nineteen? Like how is this such a big announcement

Take Look, we made it a crime, and it's like okay, that's yeah, it's semantics.

It's like not you know. Yeah.

Because it is considered the biggest overhaul of the Roman Catholic Church's criminal code in decades, Pope Francis also broadened the definition of sexual abuse to include adults, not only children can be victimized.

So that's good. I don't know.

I'm glad the church realized you can rape an adult. So it's like they're telling on themselves. It is the weirdest thing. I don't care if I'm offending you. I doubt too many devout Catholics listen. But it truly is something I will never understand, never ever ever. And and you know what, I keep being like, what the fuck?

What the fuck?

But what is does make it so difficult to make these changes, specifically speaking like about German attempts to reform the church, has been a ton of resistance from conservative bishops and priests who are opposed to altered church doctrines. So like that's the thing that people within the organizations are old school and they keep fighting for old school shit, and like they don't want to change church doctrines.

And Hans Zolner, one of.

The leading church authorities on sexual abuse, said that including adults is too broad. And the problem is if everyone in quotes, if everyone can claim to be abused in any situation, how do you prove that it's very foggy some things that aren't as clear as you think or may wish for them to be end quote. And that's one of the leading church authorities on sexual abuse.

So this guy is the leader of.

Sexual abuse in the church and is like, listen, he's acting like a fucking he's acting like a comic, he's acting like a loot, Like come on, guys, Like are we going too far? Like if we include adults, how do we trust anybody? And that whole thing is weird to me? Like why not go too much the other

What it's also just like the statistics of women filing false rape accusations are minuscular, they're small, like it's yes, it happens, it does not happen a lot. I don't think there are many people going wrong, going my priest raped me when it didn't happen, Like maybe it happens, but it does not happen a lot.

That is not a statistic.

You need to plan for no, no, and this whole thing. It's like it's too broad. What about crimes? You could just claim abuse And it's like, well, maybe abuse is just happening all the time and you need a broaden your definition of it too. So anyways, why is sex abuse and the Catholic Church still a story again and again and again, never ending. So there's like a few reasons why the Catholic Church is more difficult than all

Yeah, I don't know, Biden's Catholic.

Yeah, so yeah, it's a hierarchical organization that keeps extensive records, so abuse leaves a paper trail. So that's always why stories are leaking as well. And back to your question up top, I think they're fucking idiots or not or diabolical.

I don't know. And many people.

Also believe that priests are an exalted position, that they are the representative for Jesus himself, so like they just can't wrap their minds around that, like this clear connection to God. God's representative is a criminal, So it's faith at the end of the day, it's faith. Like one woman abused by a priest said she believed priests were in quote about as close to Heaven as you're going to get, yeah, because.

They're human beings.

But it's also like you can if you're that if you're that like into the cult, then it's like you could literally say that six year old was had the devil in them and they were tempting that priest, you know what I mean, Like, if you're that yeah, devout, who knows who you're blaming.

And of course forced celibacy added to the mix of all of these things is not great because it leads to covert sexual relationships and double lives, and just like lots of secrets, they also have institutional tolerance for sexual misconduct and the protection of perpetrators. And they're straight up yeah, this is my own words. They're committed to protecting the grift. Ye, they're in too deep. They don't pay taxes. They've convinced their flock that they have to give ten percent of

If this is in France, I think it would be pronounced Alexandre Alexanda.

So a teenager Alexander V in northern France. He killed a priest too, abused him by ramming a crucifix down the cleric's throat.

Holy shit, they found this guy dead with a fucking crucifix. That's some faking SVU shit right there. Yeah, oh my god.

So it gets twisted though, not that that's not twisted. But Roger Matti soli Is was ninety one at the time and he had been accused of molesting at least four people during his decades long career. Alexandre worked as a housekeeper at the priest's home and he was around and the priest was accused of molesting not only Alexandre but Alexandri's father. So this guy molested it. It's all accused allegations, Like all of the paperwork, all the articles

He shouldn't have been.

Getting paid, and Alexandre was declared criminally irresponsible for his actions by the Investigative Chamber of the Amien's Court of Appeal in twenty twenty one.

And he's been sent to a medical.

Specialized establishment which is probably just like a psychiatric hospital. But it was a French article translated and maybe they call it medical specialized establishments.

So I don't know. I like the sview vibe of it all.

Okay, So then this next one, there's a fair and murder, no molestation. But in November twenty twenty a man was charged why France, in Lieon, France for attempted murder after admitting he shot a Greek Orthodox priest because of jealousy because his wife was having an affair with the priest.

So this is Leon. This is a city in France where my brother used to live. Actually I've been there, no way, yeah, and uh oh no, I'm sorry, I've been to Leon, but my brother lived in Dijon.

But anyway, I hit Leon. I've been there also, and wait, Dejon were the mustard? Yes, Oh my god, I had so much good mustard when I was there. It was amazing.

But what I was gonna say is, is this not the plot of like a lot of like soaps in the seventies and shit, Like, wasn't there something called.

Like, I don't know, the Thornbirds.

Or something like people were wanting to fuck priests a lot in like the seventies and eighties.

Well, not evenbout shit. Flea Bag, I mean, flea Bag was all about.

She brought that back.

Yeah, she brought it back. What's her next project? Can you please release something?

I know you've had all a pandemic. Let's go. Phoebe waller Bridge yet to work, so yeah.

The priest Nicholas kaka Vella Cavus is a married Greek national and has been holding services at the Leon Orthodox Church for a decade. October thirty first, he was locking the doors of the church when two blasts from a sawn off shotgun in the abdomen and the victim led police to the motive and attacker.

When he was identified. Yeah, they he survived. He survived.

He woke up from a coma and identified the attacker. Because there were like some there were some like terror attacks, anti religion attacks, so they were scared that this was like part of these bigger attacks.

But it was just like jealousy.

All right, we're going to talk about some babies fathered by priests. Some are consensual and then some are of course rape and so and I you know that is that is the truth.

This is Australia.

There was an Australian study done that found that four times as many women and two times as many adult men are sexually abused by clergy than children. And that was in February twenty seventeen. I think it's just like more horrific. I don't know, I don't know. We talk about child abuse all the time in terms of the Catholic Church, but people that are in seminary and nuns like people are, and people that just go to confession are getting assaulted as well. Yeah, somebody think about lots

And through that he was.

Finally able to like because he got up the ranks of like help.

I don't know.

Basically, he was able to go to the Vatican and the Vaticans showed him an art a document and it's a secret document. He wasn't able to take a photo or write anything that like, he was only able to look at it. It's the secret document the Vatican showed him. This doesn't even seem real, but it was an internal document about how to deal with priests who father children.

So proof that there's lots of kids out there if.

They had a little Sophia's running around out there.

Yeah.

So he was shown these guidelines in twenty seventeen by Archbishop Ivan Yorkovic the Vaticans. This guy is the Vatican's envoy to the United Nations in Geneva. So that's when that happened, and the Vatican has confirmed this document and that the archbishop did show him, and the document states that these kids are called children children of the Ordained. It says that the protection of the child is the fundamental principle and that it requests the priest to leave

His fucking child.

You can only ask for a priest to leave. You can't impose a dismissal. So even if a priest is like fathering people, you can't force him to leave. But they do say that natural law comes before, like you're right to be a priest, But there's zero written into the law about that. But they do say that you should go take care of your child. But like I said, I've been saying, it's a culture of secrecy, aversion to scandal, and it keeps you know, that's why it keeps this

Shees, so just full hush money, just full hush money payment yees.

Yeah, So that's what's fucked.

It's like, not only are they having to constantly pay out like all these lawsuits from all these molesting, they are also paying out all this child support and hush money for all just like the quote like legal fucking that's even happening. But so it's basically an institution that doesn't pay taxes, that makes its followers give them money and then they spend their money. It seems billions and billions of dollars just hiding their crimes.

It's fucking weird, dude.

Engelhart says, the priests can keep keep going and the women has some explaining to do, but that's its tail as sold as time. The priest told her to get an abortion or give the child up for adoption, and he would send money and stuff because he didn't want to leave the priesthood, so he's like, those are your options. But when she finally came forward, the bishop told her that she was a sinner that was bringing shame to her family and it was a lot of psychological trauma

And so like, he has a lot of his own guilt and trauma with that. Did the dad lose his priesthood? I think he left? Yeah? Oh, okay, I think this one did some leave some.

I mean I read somewhere like a guy was like happy to leave and raise his child and He's like, oh yeah, I love being a biological father way more than I was like a father at the church. And he was like pretty jazzed to leave his life and like married to this person.

So I don't know.

So this other guy, Richard Sipe, who I don't know who he is, but this is from the Washington Post, so we have to assume it's a respected researcher. But he found out that in nineteen ninety, forty percent of priests were practicing celibacy.

So that's not high numbers.

And but how are you researching that? How are they all confessing to you in the in the survey that they're fucking It's like it's a.

Confusing it is.

And I hope, I hope you got good numbers, but I don't think that many priests are like I'm getting my dick wet all the time.

Don't tell anyone, you know. But it's the opposite.

They said only forty percent were said they were celibate, Right.

That's what I'm saying. So sixty percent wrote down I'm not celibate. I don't know. I don't know.

I was just like, you know what, I have to find as many good things that like tie with this Christmas episode.

I mean because but.

Then I was like researching for a true crime of it.

But it's like if there was.

I we it would have been based on it, like we would have known.

So so after hours.

Of figuring it out, I go, if there was an exact case, we would be studying it.

What am I doing? So that was like hard.

But priests nowadays do appear slightly more likely to come forward than in the past because they're more aware of like the risks of social media exposure and lawsuits and stuff like that. So not because the Lord is watching in morality, but they understand that they are. It's easier to get caught and talk and like a firestorm start out. Flavia Alaya is a woman who had a twenty three year relationship with the Roman Catholic priest, and she wrote

I can't shed it like a dress. Still.

I have always said that love is never a scandal. If there is something that makes love impossible, then it must be re examined.

Huh.

Interesting, and that's only in terms of obviously consensual adult love affairs, not nam style.

Yeah.

Wow, I mean that was some stuff I didn't know, so that thank you for doing all that research. I know this was more of a concept crime, but you found the worth it for the story about the crucifix.

Down the throat.

My god, I know, I wish there was more info about him, but I was like, it was really hard because I could have done all of it. I just that's so metal. Maybe we just write a short film. I just really want a crucifix in the throat.

Yeah.

And that's the thing with these people in Angelica in the episode, And you know, like when you're let down by everyone and you're out of options, what the fuck do you do with all this trauma? Okay, well, we do have a great guest, like always, yes, we have an amazing guess, Marry Christmas.

And happy Hanukkah. Guys. I am so excited about today's guest.

He is a prolific, legendary character actor whose work spans many genres. You've seen him in everything from American horror story to The Good Wife, True Blood, The Proposal, but of course today you know him as father Chris Shay. Guys, we are so excited to talk to Dennis O'Hare. So you guys can't see this, but he is showing us a picture of himself covered in blood. He started off on the zoom telling us I have blood on my hands, Like, wow, you're really bringing it.

Oh what is this for? Yeah? What are you shooting in London?

The nevers for HBO? Oh right, yeah yeah we did. We shot and we already showed six episodes and this is the back six. This only think it is two years because of COVID to like put this puppy to like, you know, season one is crazy, crazy and long orders on like season ninety four.

Yeah, yes, exactly, that's how you do it.

Wait, so we were obviously doing some gentle stocking of your Instagram and I was like, this man lives in Europe? Or are you just based there for this project or do you always live in Europe?

No, I live in Europe. We moved in twenty eighteen to Paris, my husband and my son and I moved to Paris. Yes, what a shame, I know. I know.

Well, we'll obviously get into s V Murder your career everything. But since this is Christmas or Christmas episode, I was wondering what you would like for Christmas this year and what your cutie son wants? What are his big asks and any traditions cute things about Christmas.

You know my son he's ten years old, so you know what you would like is grand theft auto. He's not getting the okay, no, no, no, no no. The fact he plays Fortnite is a huge failure already. But what he'll get from me is who get things he really wants, like books he doesn't want. That's what I buy him.

I was going to say, your poor husbands. Well that's a tough that's a tough one.

Hats you always buy me a hat. I'll always take a hat.

Yes, are you guys going to be in Paris or London for Christmas? Because I'm sure both cities are quite magical for Christmas?

New York?

Oh New York? Yeah, yeah, Oh that makes us happy.

Well that's exciting. We hope you have an amazing Christmas in New York. Let's now that we're talking about New York, let's just talk about law and order. I mean, you are you're a Law and Order Legend because you are season one and season sixteen.

I didn't know it was in season one. I didn't know that with Michael Mark and Moriarty.

Oh it actually wasn't Michael Moriarty was it was SVU. It was season one of SVU and you played a guy named Jimmy walp Right.

Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is really really sad, haunting.

I know we're crazy that, I'll tell you honestly. So that that part. I remember auditioning for it, sitting in the little room and there are like five of us putting a friend of mine named Tom RaSE Ferrell, and we were both like, dude, you're going to get this because none of us wanted it because it was creepy, because come on, it was really he rapes an old lady. It was really hard, and I was I was like, I don't want this part, and so Tom, this is

Yeah, that's so interesting.

It's a very subtle sort of like something's off with this guy kind of thing.

And that's interesting.

But that's what makes the ending so horrifying, is that you probably that character didn't belong in that place, but he did commit this crime he didn't understand and now yeah he's there and there's nothing else and I guess justice has been served. You know, it's it was a rough one.

Well, that's the great thing about you know, the all the Law and Order franchises. Is that I feel like, you know, sort of like The Good Wife. They're they're never square, they don't hit dead on, you don't get satisfied. Yeah, the guy. Yet the guy got caught. But why don't we feel good about that? Why is this still doesn't feel like it's you know, it's the happy ending. There's so much ambiguity, which is why I think people watch

Well, especially with your season sixteen one because obviously everyone is assuming that you are a pedophile priest, and so many twists and turns and.

The I wore a Santa Claus.

Head yes at the beginning, it's actually it's actually season.

Fourteen this episode.

So basically, if the map is correct, you're due to be back on SVU in like another few seasons. So I think season twenty eight is when we need you back on.

I've played two priests, I could play a third priest. I've played one schizophrenic, I played a militia guy. I've played let's you know, if I've played I've played a sch schisph the lawyer. Ea, I've played various lawyers.

Yeah, yeah, so you're just like in the Law and Order universe, the Dick Wolf universe, and so they did they just bring you in for stuff. They're like, Dennis, get in here, we got we got something for you.

You know, the universes are a little separate, you know what I mean. Like SCU is a little separate from mothership Law and Order. You know, a different team of people. You know, Warren Light is SCU and he's got a different thing going on. And no, but I do remember my very first Law and Order ever. It was with I think it was Paul Cervino and Michael Moriarty and then I did on with Jerry Orbach and Ben Bratt, Right. I mean I've been to all of the all of the various characters over there.

All over New York City playing different people. So you've been a priest before on Law and Order? Do you love those robes or what? Is that a comfy day on set for you?

You know, I was meant to be a priest, and so you know, finally, I mean till I was till I was seventeen, I was going to be a really I was only I was very very serious about it. I was the child who drove everyone else crazy in my family. I'm the fourth of five kids, and I gave all my money to UNICEF. I gave all my allowance away to the church. I kneeled and prayed. I made may altars, I made everyone say the rose. I had a real serious advent wreath for Christmas. I didn't

Really, well, when did the switch? When did you? When did you change tracks?

You know, it was funny because I was seventeen. I was going to Brother Rise High School in Michigan, which is Christian Brothers of Ireland, and at that point I was thinking I was already thinking maybe not a priest, maybe your brother, because priests you know, have a heavier commitment and brothers had a shorter ordination track. And one of the brothers came to me privately and said, I understand you want to be a brother and I said, yes.

An uncle of mine who just passed way, who was an actor and a comedian, almost became a priest. Yet he wrote a New York Times bestseller about almost.

Becoming a priest.

What was it called?

So crazy? It was called Father Joe Nice.

Wait, so what do you think do you have a like, why do you think that is all these almost actor priests?

You know, because the especially in the Catholic Mass, it's a show. It's absolutely a show. You make an entrance, you got a dressing room, You get dressed in a dressing room. You kidd, it's beforehand. You have fun. You're like, who's out there in the night. I don't know. It's a full house, you know. And I get Father Franks to smoke a cigar. Back there, he's puffing away, and then he would like put it out and you go.

This makes complete sense now that you're now that you're mapping it out for us.

Wow. And then you get to like, say a sermon, you get to improv, you get to do a stand up routine. In the middle of it. It's totally off the cuff. You know. Some priests go for last Father John brought up props, he'd bring out he'd reached his rope, and you bring out a bottle of clorox. You go, now, this is your soul, this is your soul on God, and you bring out a cobust clorox you know what I mean, And we'd all laugh, you know. So, so

I mean we're both Jews, so this is like I didn't know about the pageantry of mass like this.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, but that's interesting. Wow.

And then this one guy said this isn't for you, and you were like, yeah, all right, that's cool.

I'll go I'll become a superstar.

I You know, what a lot of things happened between eighteen and nineteen, you know, I mean, look at anybody's life. A lot what a lot of people wanted to be, is that what they ended up being. So at eighteen, I was accepted into the opera program at University of Michigan and at the same time except into Northwestern and acting, and it did not matter to me which way I went.

Oh my plan forgot to be straight.

Oh my god.

I just wanted to add that I'm from Skochie, so yeah, I always love North. Then you did theater in Chicago, right, you did, like the Steppenwolf.

And a bunch never this step everybody, but I think Goodman remains body Politech, uh, Wisdom Bridge. I got the Goodman, never stepped the most. They were sort of a closed shop.

They were like, did you drink at old Town Alehouse.

Everywhere? But I didn't I drink. I drank everywhere up and down Lincoln Avenue down, you know, I was a waiter, I thank god, everywhere, Yeah, everywhere, crazy crazy, crazy crazy.

I don't know if you remember specifically Becau, because you are so prolific and you've done so many things, but like, do you remember with Sbu, like being on season one and then being on season fourteen, like flashing forward thirteen or fourteen years later, like was there like a different vibe on the set both episodes that you did, or like had you seen how things had kind of fallen

I remember a lot of things from all the different things. I mean, you know, I do get mixed up between what I did in Law and Order. Yeah, but you know again, I just had these you know, these flashes and these images of where we were because you know, you'd be shooting in bizarre places in the Bronx. I don't know why. You're always in the Bronx for some reason. I don't know why either that or at Chelsea Peers, and it's always four in the morning. Your call is

Well, your character does get like the crap beat out of him at the beginnings.

Maybe you being.

Tired sort of added to that whole vibe of like your face being kind of yes, you know.

It didn't have to do no no acting required, kind

And you got to work with Resident Hattie Danny Pino officer Amara.

Yes and very sweet, really wanted some scoops.

So he's nice, nice guy.

In fact, I remember shooting with him this one thing and we were in some sort of weird set where you were in a jail set here and right next door was the lawyer set that was a kitchen set, and it was just so you know, weird, walking through these different worlds and to go to the jail set where I was interrogated. But he was lovely. He's truly lovely.

Well, you work with so many amazing talented people, and you've worked for so long, do you ever get starstruck?

God? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You know, whenever you walk into a room and you see somebody you recognize, you're always kind of like, oh my god, there's that person, you know. I mean I certainly had that the very first time I worked at Jerry Orbach, because Jerry Orbach, you know, mister Lumierre. I mean, you know, it's just like it's extraordinary, and you know, and he was a song and dance man in previously and then that, and he was truly one of one of the I don't know, just nicest people.

Can you tell us a little bit about being in the Ryan Murphy universe. I mean, it's like that's another universe that you're a part of. You're a part of many many universes, but there's like there's so much Ryan Murphy SVU crossover, Like Chloe Savigny has been on its, Sarah Paulson.

Lily Rob, a lot of people you. You know, like so many people.

Have been on this SVU and are on American Horse Story, So it's fun as a viewer of both.

How's that franchise?

The Ryan Murphy world is crazy? It's it's crazy good mostly. I mean, it's a it's a it's a mad ride in that just the logistics of it are always mad because you don't quite know what you're doing ever, and you don't get a whole lot of clues, and you just kind of have to show up and work. It's super creative, it's super challenging in a really good way. You're given great characters, You're given great opportunity. Ryan gives people a platform, he gives people an amazing opportunities to succeed.

Oh we Are I love I love that show, which I.

Love, but it's like it's all the Good Wife people. It's like, uh oh, there's there. Michaelamorous at all.

Both both SVU alums, Carrie Preston, Michael Emerson, all SBU people.

Yeah, And I always find the overlap. My kind of where my brain is is the SVU, Sex and the City Oz. Those are my three New York like Constant, those are where everyone exists or Seinfeld like that's where everyone exists in my brain.

It's really really interesting. And you know, there are some poor actors who never got on Law and Order, and they really do. It's a thing. It's a thing. You can't talk about it with them. You can't bring it up, you know, it's a thing. They just sort of like eat themselves up and kind of go. I never got on Law and Order. I never I never got a loan order.

You know, Well, you got to work with a kid, you know, your daughter on this show.

Does that change the vibe on a set when you have to work with the child, and how is it working with her?

I've always liked kids and always been fairly you know, comfortable with kids. It's not a thing that throws me off at all. And I tend to be an actor who I will go off script at the drop of a hat. If you let me, I will, I will go over there. And so I love that kid energy that they don't really play by the rules and they don't obey things, and it's like like dogs, you know, dogs are the best actress in the world. They look, but they want to look. They do what they want

Yeah, which I bet kids love too because it's you always just want to be treated like an adult, and that maybe that's one of the reasons why kids want to be in that world so much. Do you like, like I said, your IMDb is like just so extensive, Like do you have like favorite roles that you've played or like, as I know you have played so many different things with Ryan Murphy and like and Big Little Lies, so many different things, Like do you have a favorite or or a top three?

I mean, you know, I do I have parts that I that I really loved playing. I have to say sticking in the Law and Order franchise that I played a schizophrenic in a law and order years ago who was his own lawyer, And there was a really challenging episode to shoot, and I remember being very I don't know, it was hard to do. However, two things about it. One was and out played my sister. Yes, the great,

Yeah, what do you get recognized? Sorry, the most like on the streets when you're approached, you.

Know it's funny. It's funny. Charles Abernathy Judged The Good Wife, Russell Edgington, the vampire King in Mississippi, and usually Taylor from American Horror Story you know, or sometimes Larry from season one of Horror Story. It's it's usually those those two guys. I mean, I can tell a lot about a person. I can usually tell from fifty paces what they're going to know me from.

If I saw you on the street before this as VU, I think it would for me have been true Blood.

True Blood. Russell. Yeah, it's really funny. I mean I could, I could almost almost pick it out. And of course there are those people who completely baffle me and surprise me and they're like, oh my god, you were so good as Ed Grell and Poe. I'm like, what, no one watch that you watch that? You know what I mean? It's good for you. I'm so happy you watch That's so funny.

Do you want to direct? Is that something that you want to do or not? I don't know, No, no, maybe the first cool.

I'm a writer, though, and so I you know, I've written a movie of mine, the Party Glass, and was in it, and I've pitched a pilot and nobody wanted. They all were like, oh, I got an amazing pitch and nobody bought it. And so I'm now turning into a novel and I've written eight hundred pages and now I'm on my third rewrite. I'm hoping to get it down about four fifty. It's a dystopian novel. I write plays.

We don't want to keep you all day or anything, but are there any thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Are there projects that you shout out, like, besides the Nevers, which I know is is currently on or is you know the Nevers?

We we We showed the first six on HBO and then the next six for finishing up, and I think it'll be out next April May June. Not not up to me, above my pay grade, but wonderful actors Laura.

Donnelly, Uh, Olivia Williams and Skelly Amy Manson, Ben Ben Chaplin, Jim Norton, Tom Riley, James Norton, sorry Tom Riley.

Just really a great group of actors, paper directors, and yeah, and a really cool set, you know. I mean Joss Whedon was our first showrunner, and then Josh left and Philip A. Gossa came in. Uh, and it's a really it's really a cool female team. I must say, I'm loving watching this industry finally wake up. And I've been lucky in my care to be in directed by some great female directors. We have a great female DP. I love female camera ops. I love the fact that a

What a dream guest.

I love him like he's just fully up in London at eleven PM, just chatting away with us with stage blood on yes, with stage blood on his hands and in his beard, like I mean.

And we stopped recording, but I think you'd all like to know that to top off his night, he was gonna go watch drag Race and we can't believe it, right, he goes.

All right, I'm gonna go watch drag Race. We were like, oh, you tell us, yeah, But check out Dennis O'Hare in the second half of the first season of The Never's on HBO.

It sounds like a cool show. And I love so talented.

Talking to someone who doesn't want to be a director, because that is something that I personally would never I never want to do. But it seems like every actor professional is like I can't wait to do that. So I thought I was like lazy or something. And then I don't know, it's just not that's not in your heart, like how you say to me.

I'm like, Lisa, what you should do is you should just make a spreadsheet put all your passwords in it.

And you're like, Kara, that's in your heart. That's not for me, Like and I get that, you know.

So it was just cool to talk to someone that is so accomplished, doing so much and he's like, I'm happy to yes, thank you so much.

I don't need Yeah, And he is working and he has a beautiful husband and child, a beautiful family.

He's a wonderful person and theater and he's right.

I don't know, I just for what a Christmas miracle, I guess I would say someone, Yeah, Well, if.

We want to jump into our post mortem, I'll say. One thing I learned is that many actors were about to become priests.

I didn't know.

Yeah, and that's like a pretty that's well, you know what's funny. It's like how a lot of comics were lawyers, like a ton of comment like guy Branham Giraldo like all these people, I guess we're in law school or like the Lucas brothers, like we're.

In law school or became lawyers and then.

But that kind of makes sense to me because it's like argumentative, analytical, you know, like becoming a like wanting to be a priest. I just don't know that because I, like I said, I'm not Catholic, so I don't really think of I think of Catholic mass as boring as fuck, not like a show you put on.

But you know, well a show is way to look at it, because to me, like religion's always like rules you have to do, Like it doesn't seem as free. But for him, he was like you get to chat a little, get the crowd going, you know, like there's a project show, smoke a cigar. Like I guess, yeah, I never I never it that way. I mean what we learn every week. I would have to say is believe victims. Yeah, believe victims.

They have nothing to benefit from lying.

But I will say, just if you are trying to vigilante some shit for your sister, just let's just double check.

Let's just confirm that you got the right person. You know, and we learn, as we learn all the.

Time on the show, that eyewitness accounts are not accurate, like everybody had Sam Pegg does the guy who was beating up this priest and that was it was not true.

So you know, Also we learned that Warner wants to fuck Finn. Hopefully maybe I.

Think we did, but I was a question for one of them when we get them on for sure, and maybe things have changed.

But you know, I've been on a tear this month. I have been watching all SVU twenty four to seven in the Home and.

In the Home RRA.

Melinda talked about a husband in one of the episodes. Oh and so she had been married. We don't know if there was a divorce, he could have died. I mean, who fucking knows. But she does mention a husband in previous episodes. But it doesn't mean they could have an open thing. They've been together a long time. We don't know, who knows.

I mean, there's just like a whole vibe with the way she's talking to Olivia about how she's gonna get some over the holiday and she's not going to fin Maybe it's also just some good old fashioned flirting, like maybe it's like I'm married, you know, you got a girlfriend or something, but let's just have some fun at this Morgue Christmas party.

I also learned that I have a goal, and my goal is I want to work so much hopefully that I don't remember that I just yeah, I'm like, wait, what.

Year was this? That would be impossible for you, though, Like you just have such a good memory. You'd be like, no, remember on day four of shooting when we ate this at that, Like, you just like have such a good memory for everything. And I think that there's no way that you'll work so much that you'll forget stuff. You're just gonna always just be that girl.

I actually brought up a show that I worked on someone with and we're still all young, but I was like, oh, remember we did that game show and they had no recollection. They're like, can you tell me about this gig? And they did multiple episodes with no recollection at all. That seems cool. Maybe one day I would love to just mix it up and be like, wait, was that on SVU or Original?

I know to do so much Dick Wolls that you're like, was I on Chicago Med or was that criminal Intent?

And then of course I told him the one theater he doesn't work in Chicago. I was like, oh, of course Stepan, Well, of course the one he probably liked.

And then you said what about this bar? And he's like everywhere but that.

He was like, why can't we connect? No, Northwestern to me is like I don't know a lot.

I like it.

I like the idea of it because I bet.

Those people could have gotten into more traditional IVY League quote unquote fancier places.

The Northwestern is fancy.

There's just something about choosing the Midwest being a while cat that I just respect.

And when I was growing up, like my town was very obsessed with IVS and like that whole college thing, but Northwestern was like right there, like you might as well have been going too. It was so so impressive to get into.

Oh it's tough.

I didn't even apply. Really, yeah, no, I wouldn't have gotten into Northwestern.

I mean I always think about if I didn't drop out of Iowa State and like finished with my degree in ames Iowa, what my life would be like and like worked at the call center, Like I just life goes so many ways, But I do wonder if I would have ever figured out my heart or given up on my dreams?

Who knows, I don't know. Who knows.

Why can't we just have a sliding doors technology? Like, why can't they figure that out for us?

We want to.

I want to see what my life would have been like if I graduated from Iowa.

Well, I'm glad that you chose this path and you were able to tell me about a man getting a crucifix ram down his throat.

Thank you. That's all I care about.

Yeah, anyone is artistic that listens, and you want to give us a recreational drawing that we can hang out.

I want it.

I want it. You want fan art of a death bikers a fix throat?

Yeah, maybe I can be a little angel saint flying watching. I don't know how talented you are out there, but you know, send it, send it over, send it over pds to get.

Some whack ass fan art. I can't wait.

That's actually what I Yeah, we want fan art, bitches, get us fan art. We want fan art, and we would love to touch on this. You know you had to wait a week, you know, time machine stuff. But a dugger, A dugger is in jail, finally sentenced Josh Duggar found guilty of possessing and downloading child pornography.

Do you know how much you got? I don't know.

I don't know what his sentence is yet, but he's been found guilty, and he's been found guilty in federal court of you know, his possession of child's sex.

Okay, eighteen minutes ago, Jim, Bob and Michelle break their silent.

Oh, they actually didn't do the worst thing.

Hearts and prayers to anyone who has been harmed through sexual child abuse material.

It's interesting that they know the correct wording. They have some kind of pr someone from TLC is helping them.

The fact that they use child abuse images. I am like, yeah, kind of impressed with the Duggers for a moment because he was trying to claim.

One of our listeners wrote us in and had like kind of a personal connection to a witness in this case and said he was trying to claim that like other people had access to his computer and that those were the people with the images, and it was like, Okay, dog, that's not really Oh no.

His wife, Josh's wife Anna, just welcomed their seventh child in the f.

You know what's wild. Her name is Madison. Your husband got busted on Ashley Madison. Why would you name your kid Madison? Oh my god, I thought you were saying her name. I go no, it says Anna, No, no, no, the baby, the baby's name. And I can't take credit for that. That was a listener that Drew that brought that to our attention and was like, don't you think it's crazy?

And I was like, yes, that is crazy.

As parents, we will never stop praying for Joshua and loving him as we do all our children. In each of life's circumstances, we place trust in God, strength, refuge, prayers. Okay, I mean I don't know, but I'm glad he's found guilty. I like when people are found guilty of crimes they've committed, you know. And in our Kyle Rittenhouse world we live in, we never fucking know what's gonna happen. Our judicial system is a joke so much that nice to just hear someone getting caught.

And now we talked about him in we talked about the Duggers in our episode Patrimonial Burden, but then we also talked about child sex abuse images in Downloaded childs. So some people were saying they hope that he has to give some restitution to the victims.

Of his you know, the people that are in the images. Wow, we have such smart listeners. Yeah, all right, well let's ease into our what would sister peg do?

Girl?

What do you got for us?

Every week we give you a you know, an organization, a book, an article, something that will give you some more information on the topic that we touched on in today's episode.

And I wanted this week to highlight Honestly.

I first heard about this this organization through a joke that my husband does on his album. But it is an actual, very important organization. It's called the Survivor's Network of Those Abused by Priests and it's SNAP and so the website is www dot snapnetwork dot org and it's the oldest, largest and most active support group for women and men wounded by religious and institutional authorities. That's priests, ministers, bishops, deacons, nuns, coaches,

So again, Yeah.

If you want to learn more, check out www dot dot Snapnetwork dot org and that will be up on our Instagram stories in our WWSPD highlight.

Yes, thanks Kara. And then for next week, we're doing Hell's Kitchen. That's a season twenty episode eight, great episode.

Watch on Hulu peacock. You can rent stuff from your library.

Go to a friend's last episode, last episode of twenty twenty one.

Baby, We'll be Hell's Kitchen. Yeah, amazing. Thank you so much for listening.

Bye bye.

That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.

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