Possessed

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SFU podcast.

I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger.

We talk SVU, true crime, and run other stuff. Honestly, we have a lot to discuss us. We constantly have so much to discuss. And we're in the time machine.

Baby.

Oh yeah, we're in the time machine. By the time this comes out, Lisa will have recorded a show stopping hour. I can't wait to hear about it. And coming up is Father Day? Are you doing anything? Are you going to see your dad or Oh?

And Mike, Actually no, I'm probably leaving right before I'm going.

When is it.

I'm going for my mom's birthday, which is June ninth, and then I'm leaving for that weekend, so I'll probably be gone.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's the following weekend. It's the sixteenth. It's my mom's birthday. Actually, is Father's Day this year?

Wow? How do you feel? I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I mean, I don't really do anything for my dad on Father's Day, honestly, but I do something for Jared.

I mean, I'll probably just get him.

I just get him a membership to the movie store that it's a video store slash movie theater called Vidiots. That's an eagle rock that he loves, and I think Casey likes it too, and he.

Gets is it a yearly membership?

Yeah, a year long membership, and he gets like all these perks, like no late fees, and he can get like free popcorn and shit at some of the movies.

And I don't know, it's like all these perks that he likes.

So I'll get him that and then I don't know what else, maybe like a new piece of clothing or something.

I don't know. I'll probably just send them donuts like they I don't know.

Yeah, I think my dad really like. My dad likes sweet and so I'll probably send donuts. Because when I sent him nuts, he said never to do that again. So I never send me nuts. What was the problem? I he was just he said he doesn't want any more nuts, So okay, I said a hi, wow, Wait, did I not read you this text from my sister about my I doesn't read this too.

I don't think so.

This has nothing to do with the nuts, but it does have to do with my father. So my sister's renting out her house and she gets this text from the renters. There's a shirtless older man wandering around in our backyard? Is it a family member of yours? Just making sure? And then my sister responds, Oh, my god, probably I'll call my dad.

And it was my father in the yard. That is so funny. What was he doing? He was picking the tomatoes. He wanted the tomatoes.

Couldn't put a shirt on, Dad, I'm renting, you gotta put a shirt on.

Well he does, he just does not wear shirts. And then I got a nut. Then my mom did something fucking silly. Both my parents are just being such themselves this week, wildly so. And my sister is a photographer, like, she likes taking wild photos, and she would always put the kids in kind of wild situations. They jump off bridges, they would get close to a ledges like. She liked to do optical illusion style photos with the children, which do scare my mother.

Oh, I understand that.

So then my mom goes, good morning, Sasha and family, Please be very careful when you will go to the mountains.

I saw the photo of you.

Know, Benji and Natalie, and and in Russian, she goes, they're standing too close to the edge. That is very dangerous. Have a safety and nice day, Love you all very much. And then my sister responds, going, Mom, that was a parking lot.

The photo is near the parking lot.

Oh my god, I'm looking at the parking lot and there is truly it is flat ground and there is no drop off anywhere.

Oh my god. So funny.

So that's what both of you have to look forward to in your elderly eight years, because I just don't think you ever start worrying and your kids get closer and closer to legends I get.

I mean, it's truly by the parking lot, but so wild. That is really wild.

Wait, speaking of parenting, I don't even think I fully talked to you about how I went and did career day at Rosie's school.

No, that was you have to talk about it.

I went and I did career day, and I didn't know what it was even going to be.

I thought it was going to be tons of parents there were four of us.

There was a nurse, an EMT, and then me and this commercial actress and she was like, well, we got two people that save lives and then us two clowns. Like we were like this is gonna be And of course they like loved the nurse because she brought.

Yeah, but that's important because I feel like kids know about all those other jobs and I feel like creative jobs aren't talked about yet. They're possible, yes, but it's an elementary school, so they're so young to even know what is like. You know, half of them are like, I'm gonna be a fireman, like you know what I mean.

Like they're not really like that's what I mean.

They know what nurses are totally is gonna like click for someone else's brain totally.

But what I'm saying is I was explaining my creative job and I think I was making it sound pretty cool and a lot of them were just looking at me like wait, what, like they don't get it?

You know what I mean?

Like I was like, you know, they asked me to describe my typical day, and I don't really have a typical day. Every day is kind of different, So you got to kind of manage your own time and you can be your own boss. And they were just kind of like, you tell us a joke, Like I had to go to all different groups, So I did the littlest kids first, which is Rosie's group. So that was fine because like, I know a lot of those kids, and I just like Rosie came up and did a

I was like, it's just an interviewer or whatever.

But I couldn't really think of anybody that we've had on the podcast that they would think was cool, like as a current modern day fifth grader, you know, without being like, oh the voice in this animated movie, you know what I mean? Like because we have this show's older, so like it's more it's more older people. But like I did tell them, I was like, oh, I worked on this other show where I got to meet Nicki Minaj And they went fucking nuts for that that I

Do you know what that means? That's when you like.

Warm up the crowds talking about you. But other I know other people that have opened form also, but like but it was really a laugh. Like I was, I do not really get nervous performing very much, and I was very nervous in front of some of these classes.

I was like, these kids are gonna rip me apart.

Of course, that's what's wild it's like you're an adult, but like children, teens, college kids, that's the worst. I mean, I just did a show for like young twenty year olds and I was like, I don't know, I'm wearing an ankle sock and.

Yeah, like, oh my god, I've just read the ankle sock thing.

I'm like, no, now, do you think the anklesock thing includes like not socks because I mostly wear those like socks that you can't see at all.

Yeah, that's that's oka that is.

I thought they were talking about ankle socks where like the little bit of ankle comes out over the sneaker, which is that' storky you're looking?

Well, no, not to them. They like a sock. They want they like to show the whull sock. Yeah, they want to pull a full sock up. Damn, damn, damn, damn. I was pop. Everything is just the cycle. So it's like a reminder to just do whatever the fuck you want. I know, I know, but that's my thing. Older people we did not care what older like. I just don't remember all this discussion and we've talked about this, like why as a thirty five year old do you care

Now, if you're alive.

The part, the middle part, the vodka sodas we've talked about right now.

But I do like having a middle part now, So I guess I do have the younger generation I think for that.

Wait, so that's the younger kids. How did the older kids?

They also the cops came and they brought their motorcycles and they brought horses, so the kids were obviously like gagged over the horses, and then we had to go after that. They also brought bomb sniffing dogs, so we had to go after that like the little animal show. I was like, cool, now I'm going to talk about like how you have to have a website or no.

I didn't even say that.

I just showed them my website because there's like kind of a funny picture of me on it, and I was like, so do you think this sells me as a comedian? And this one girl goes, I think you should have a mustache, and I was like, honestly, that's a great idea.

I was stressed, but it was good. It was funny.

They were just like asking me, like can I tell you a joke? And so like after the oldest kids, it was who do you know that's famous? And the middle aged kids like the second third, second third, we're that second third, fourth, I guess we're asking me, can I tell you a joke? And then they were all getting up and telling me like, you know, knock knock jokes and stuff like that, and it was very cute.

And what are the summer camp plans? Are they doing regular? Are they like doing themed ones? What did you get into? What did you get into?

Well, I'm so glad you asked. I'm so glad you asked. I don't probably everywhere there's a lot of moms that listen to this podcast. I'm sure it's this is the same everywhere. But this is my first summer with Rosie in public school, so I've had to like organize her whole summer. Oscar just goes to a summer program at his school. They just keep going and it's like no big deal. And that's what Rosie did. So now you have to like jigsaw Tetris this whole week together, and

She's pumped. Then she's gonna do You should.

Let her know I met a chinchilla today, actually today, yeah, yeah, Oh my god.

It's only three o'clock. I can't where you are. I can't believe you've already met at chinchilla. Well I can't believe.

As I've been to the stylist's studio, I would say five times, and only today I was told that there was a chinchilla named Jimmy Chow. And so obviously I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And so I went and got to meet her today.

Never has a lead been more buried than not exposing Lisa to a chinchilla at her stylists named Jimmy Choo. Like that is these people need to be punished. H But I Then she's going to an art camp for a week, and then she's going to a little camp that's like through a rec center where they take you on field trips and one of them is to a water park and she's literally losing her mind.

She's been talking about it no stop.

Then she's doing a three week acting camp where they're gonna there's gonna be a play and a show and everything.

And I think she'll be one of the youngest kids. So we'll see. We'll see if she.

Likes it, and then wild Summer so Zoo are field trip acting, and then back to field trip for two more weeks, and then we go out of town for two weeks.

She's gonna have the summer of her life. I know, she keeps. She goes, why don't I have to go to school every day?

And I go, first of all, you love, this is just the most expensive summer of your life, like you.

Know what some of them were.

Actually, she if I could, I would just do this rec center camp every week because those are affordable.

The other ones are expensive.

But you know, it's what I paid for her to go to a private, fucking preschool. So I'm just I'm happy I got the year off of paying for that for two kids. But yeah, she's she's pumped. I think she's gonna be doing fun stuff. We'll see. And Oscar, we'll see. He doesn't like his school very much. I don't know if he'll like it when the summer program starts, because it's like less structured.

Maybe he'll be into that. Isn't the whole thing when Mom's a story, no structure.

No, it's like what I think of it is, it's kind of like organized, unstructured. Like so I got to go and I had never been able to go and sit in the classroom and watch them do something. I did this like two weeks ago because Rosie was there for COVID, so like you were never allowed to go do it.

Now they're letting people do it. So I went in. You're supposed to sit in a chair.

You're really not supposed to like communicate with your kid, which of course confuses them. And all the kids are trying to talk to me and ask me in things

You know.

Okay, okay, Yeah it was cute though. I was glad I got to see it. I was, you know, it's like a little fly on the wall. But yeah, that's that's all I have from kid watch. What else is going on drag Race? Did you have any thoughts I'm watching I've watched now the first three.

Well, we're in the time machine, so we're talking about tails and titties and snatch love games.

So yeah, that's where we're at.

I think Got Mixed Dog is my number one favorite of all time.

Like I loved her. I loved it. I did not know where that was going to go. I was like, you're being lassy, and then it was so good.

It's just you're creative, you can make you can make a lot of things work.

And the outfit was incredible, Like she was like really catapulted herself as like no, no, no, I'm the I'm the front runner. Actually yeah, and it was clear to see this episode it's.

Got Mixed to lose. I think she's so good.

Yeah, if only Plastic could be a little funny.

Yeah, only, and Plustique is.

Gorge I mean she's otherworldly. I would say, yeah, she's so pretty.

Well because I didn't really know the true depths of Plastic until the drive in Drag Race show of Pandemic, and I was blown away because I just thought she was a look queen, which is also cool, but the performance was pop star level.

I was so impressed.

I was like, oh, I have no idea, and that's why I think when the drag queens are like, your opinions actually don't matter because this is a show and all of them are good at drag yes, like, so that was eye.

Opening to me. And but same with Violet.

She's a quote unquote look queen, but she's doing incredible shows, the Stilace style performance, and she's about to fulfill her dream in Paris. She's performing at the maybe not Mulan Route, but she's performing. She's a residency in Paris and it's her goal.

Wow.

Yeah.

She talks about it on the pit stop, which for some reason, you're trying to prove something by not watching, but I am watching.

I'm gonna watch it. Violet's also very funny and like cutting. You know, like the thing is is like you you know, they all have their strengths, and you're trying to find the person that's the best at all of the things, or that you know at least can do some of the things. It's like, yes, Georgius is a great dancer. You're never going to convince me that Georgious is ever going to be good at an acting challenge or a imitation challenge or anything like that. You know, Like, and

Okay, Yeah, I guess I'm plugging Violet States June twenty fourth through the twenty eighth.

That's where she'll be.

All right and go see our good friend Violet CHOCHKEI I wish, I wish.

I mean, I don't know if I could actually handle it. I don't dress good enough to be around Violet.

But you know, I mean, I.

Know, I gotta watch I gotta watch the goddamn pit Stop. I just don't watch anything on YouTube is my thing. I'm like fully telling you, as I'm an old person that doesn't watch YouTube. I have so much shit on my TV and my streaming and everything, and I'm just like not popping on YouTube.

Oh, I'm watching Hacks from season one because I kind of wanna watch it. This holy to be able to watch the finale with everything all at once in the I think I'm on is so good, so impressed with everything they do.

I love Hacks, I really love it. I love Hacks so much. I think I'm on.

I'm only not caught up on this week, this week's two episodes or yeah.

They continue to surprise me, challenge me, make me laugh, make me tear up, be impressed with the overall production everywhere, Like I just fucking love it.

Yeah, it's It's also like there are shows like thirty Rock or whatever that I consider to be one of the best sitcoms of or Veep where there's like all hard jokes, just constant joke joke, joke, joke joke. This show also has a lot of hard jokes, but then also has all this heart you know what I mean exactly? Yeah, Yeah, it's a it's a real gem. If you're not watching Hacks, what the hell is wrong with you?

And even like season three is so good, and then going back to season one and just remembering how I felt when I first started watching it, Like it really is, I think one of my favorite contemporary shows, if not number one.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I'm also catching up on all the old Saturday Night Lives from the rest of this season right now, like because I had like seven of them on my DVR and was like, I need to watch these, so like, I just watched the Josh Brolin Ariana last night, and the and the Well.

I mean not to brag, but the woman doing my set design for my special did ariana grande set design for SNL what.

I don't know if you liked it, they it was mind blowing.

I literally said, Wow, her sets are like nothing I've seen on SNL before.

Yeah.

Oh, her name is Amanda, and I cannot wait to see I can't believe I have not even gotten a sneak peek text of a sketch or anything. I've gotten nothing.

Well, I'm also, you know, I'm trying to be as chill as possible. So unless it's like a decision that I need to make, I'm telling people to leave me alone.

Yeah, and letting the professionals do their job. Yeah, you go get it together.

I'm you know, you're also, yeah, I'm trying to keep it chill and act like whatever, and so you guys go run around, but no, I just got was it with her?

We talked.

I got one photo of like a piece, and I was like, uh, you know, but this always happens when you work with really cool professionals that are good at what they do. Whatever you have in your head is it's gonna be ten times what you can imagine because you're not even a pro at what you're doing, Like you can't. Hopefully when you hire people that are really good that they blow you away because yeah, yeah, they have the skills that you can't imagine.

Do you know? I worked with.

This guy on this fucking Nickelodeon show that I worked on where I was the I was like a writer's assistant and an assistant to the producer. And he has like done the set design for Taylor for all these like amazing videos Beyoncey, Like he is so fucking good and I just can't believe he worked on this little Nickelodeon show.

I'm a little confused why we haven't ever asked many favors of this person.

I haven't just now hearing about this, I haven't talked to him in a while, but yeah, he's like, he's like, yeah, he worked on the Aras tour. I guess I'm looking at his Instagram. I'll send you his instagram. Ethan toabman. He's very he's very talented, and I'm honestly on par with one of you. Brought me a full fat coke. I am in a rage at the moment, but we're not like he's not like a guy where I can be like, hey, can you give me tickets?

You know, like, we're not.

I hate asking for favorite because I actually had someone atline Age be like, well, what do you mean to we could have helped you, and I go, I'm not fucking like you gotta. Yeah, he did the fucking new Alien stuff. Oh my god.

And he was on this little Nickelodeon show with me and we're, yeah, we're he's really I talented.

Oh my god, oh god, this is incredible. Yeah, because the new stuff for the TTPD is incredible. And he posted when he did anti Hero. Wait he did her for SNL I think too. Yeah, thirty Rockfeller, Yeah, I love I love it.

And he did the Anti Hero video and stuff, which I thought was like visually cool and I liked. I thought, I think he's really but I honestly think he worked on like formation, like the Beyonce Like he really has been like doing so much cool shit and he's, yeah, just a killer creative.

So I can't believe that he did this new set. This is everybody.

He'll give Ethan Todman a follow. He's very, very talented. I'm gonna sells again.

Lemonage. He was part of Lemonade. Well, I think they.

I think the lemon they Rolling Stone did like the top one hundred albums of all time, and uh, Lemonade is in top ten, which is or I'm making something fully up, but I mean.

It should be in my opinion, I thought, let me get stop the best and is everything? Yeah, Like I love that album, and I guess the only country album to make the list is Casey Musgraves Look at that, which is what I tell people where I'm like, she transcended in a way where this is one of the greatest albums of all time.

It is what it is. Golden Hour is so good. I was listening to it yesterday.

All right, Casey's already given us the twenty minute, so we should probably grasp it up.

Us.

Really, living on opposite coasts has increased the time of I know.

Sorry, guys, you're gonna have to get long intros now because we don't live down the street from each other anymore. But before we get into this great episode, let's let me just remind you guys that if you go to That's mess up live dot com, you can get the new restock of do you Have Children Detective t shirts two different styles, there's the toe bag, there's other great shit to buy, and then it also has a link to our promo codes for all the stuff that we advertise.

But I LIFs down the door that the old woman isn't like with the guy. She's just like, all right, proof enough here, you take the keys and have fun. Yeah, like I.

Would, I would help, but I would still try to be involved.

I think, Yeah, like my fingers on the nine one one buttons on my phone. So Patrick breaks down the door and then he sees like Lorissa's hands are bound, her ankles are tied to the chair, and there are a ton of white and blue pills all over the carpet in front of her. He's trying to wake her up. He's like, Lauris, wake up, wake up. And then suddenly a huge in tidy whities hits the boyfriend Patrick with a camera tripod. He's also wearing a terrifying clear face

Sorry, he has no shot. Yeah, the boy man Barry, he's the big guy.

The man is very large, and then they zoom in on Larissa's underwear and they're like little girl style briefs, Like these are not adult underwear. They're little girl style briefs that have brandy like embroidered on them with flowers.

It's very creepy.

We cut to a hospital walk and talk where Benson and Stabler are getting the scoop from a doctor. Patrick has a scalp laceration, but he's coherent. As for the girl, her name is Larissa Welsh. She is unconscious, not beaten, but she's overdosed on rhypnom so she wasn't part of the fight.

She just had a roofy overdose.

He also found vaginal scarring, but no signs of sexual assault or seamen, Like I guess immediate sexual assault. And she has bandages all over her arms and they're like, oh, sexual torture because she came in with a dozen fresh razor cuts and they're like, oh, is it sexual torture? And they're like, no, her attacker shaved her from the neck down, so her attacker just doesn't know how to work a razor without cutting, and so horrific.

What's going on? Credits dun dum okay.

So, now Benson and Stabler are talking to Patrick, who's, you know, trying to combat what Lisa just said.

And he's like, I could have taken him.

I have three older brothers, like or whatever, but he obviously couldn't. And he and Larissa have been dating for six months, he said, but they've known each other for two years. That's how long it took her to open herself up to a relationship. She was a foster kid. She doesn't like to talk about things that happened to her. And he's never seen that attacker before and he's like, I would have remembered a fat, sweaty creep.

So he's not a fan of this guy.

Benson asks him about the Brandy underwear, and he does not know who Brandy is, but he does remember Larissa telling him that she hates that name. So in the precinct, now Munch gives us an only in New York moment. He goes, only in New York can you have no witnesses to a masked man running down the street in his tidy whities Curlassic Sure coffee table book of these only in New York? Munch quotes, they said, Okay, so they've hit a dead end on all the DNA from

She goes, he was gross and.

Fat, she says, and made her do her hair like the girl in the picture, a girl named Brandy. And then she pointed to her shoulder and says even here and explains that Brandy had a birthmark, so he drew one on her and then he heard her.

She says, cut to.

The other victim, the Connecticut victim, I'm assuming Paula, She says to Stabler, the guy hurt me very badly, but I can't say anything else. And this little girl's name is Paula and she is played by none other than Sabrina Carpenter's So sick and Taylor's era's opener catch that at all? Are but you even told me that? And I didn't catch it.

But I didn't remember who she was.

I was like, she's in this episode, but I forgot who she was and my face, Yeah, she's cute and she's amazing.

I'm like obsessed with her.

I do want to know if their relationship is real or not, because it is a great attend It's like.

It's a good attention thing. He's not that attractive to me, but like maybe he's really cool.

Yeah, I mean, who knows my thing is? I mean she's very young. But it's strange because I don't want children. So if I were to date someone with a kid, that's not for I don't want that. But then if they were down to date. Even if they a kid, I'd be grossed out that they're a bad parent, you know what I mean? Like he has a kid with his ex and he left her. It was one of those like Oh I'm famous now, so I'm gonna piece

Where is your kid? Are you a bad father? Well with the mom, I'm assuming right, sure, but where is your kid? Bro?

Like where you're just running around at the met Like where are you? And so to me it's like, well she is twenty five, Like who gives a shit? You're you know, you're like whatever, let's party, you're hot, you're obsessed with me.

But in my head, I'm like, where's your kid? Bro? Say what Jermal?

And why all these guys, all these guys that get famous they split up and then it's like your your career blew up?

The SpongeBob dude, where where's your kid?

Bro?

Yeah? Like these girls date these dudes and it's fine.

I'm sure they're getting all this attention because they're famous pop stars that are so hot and cool, but like, is she like oh yeah, fuck your wife and that kid ill?

Or is she like why or are they hang out with the kid?

Or is he like, I'm actually gone four days a week, I can only see you these three days, Like I just some curious.

Yeah, it's like none of my business.

Sick was like dating one of the Rena girls, or when like he is dating Sophia Richie. Are they ever like Wow, where are your three kids? Like are they like with Courtney? Like you know, I don't know?

Yeah, I I that is something that's in the back of my mind with these guys that leave their partners and baby children to date up or whatnot, and in her.

In many cases date very down wi.

Yeah, because in her song she goes, I'm glad your ex didn't do it for you.

Too bad you X did do? I like that song a lot. I love that song. It's the song of the summer. Everyone loves it.

It's finally it was it attacked me this week, Like I was actually kind of fine not being obsessed, but now I'm fully obsessed.

But I just am curious, are you.

I would be unattra I would be less attracted to someone who's a bad parent, But overall, I don't want a child anywhere near me in my.

Life, so.

So that's not an issue for me, but it's just something I think about.

Yeah, interesting, interesting, Well let me know what you guys think. Yeah, weigh in the little Paula.

She's like, like the first girl's obviously scared, but Paula is like very terrified, and well reminds.

Me of the interrogations of like the honey.

Stick episode you remember.

I just sad when these little girls have to recall what happened to them. It is one of the tougher parts of SBU is like watching little kids have to explain what happened to them.

I don't like.

Yeah, well, and luckily most of them are going to become huge pop stars and nothing hopefully happened to them for real. So she's like, I can't tell you anything else, and Stabler's like, well, you know, you could really help me to stop this guy from hurting other girls, and you can talk to me. And then she goes, are you testing me? And he's like, what are you talking about?

And I was like, oh no, that kind.

Of looks like the symbol at Dollywood because it is butterflies.

But we can move on. That's not real.

So the rapist might be part of a ring, but either way, he's fixated on Larissa. But he needed viagra because she's an adult woo and not a child, So what is comed So don't do it?

How about that? How about you don't know it?

Then if your body's telling you no, the answer is no, why are you're.

Taking viagra to fucking assault people? You sick?

Yeah?

Yeah? Ugh?

This guy really is so so sick. So what is Coventry? According to Munch, they're the boogeyman. They use the name to scare their victims, a lot of pedophiles. So then they watch this very disturbing video where a guy calls a little girl Brandy, and he has his voice disguised, and he demands that she take off her clothes or Coventry will kill her in her entire family. And Elliott pauses the video on this girl and notices that she

Because I doubt he thinks he's done anything wrong. That's my thing. He's like, oh yeah, you know this is normal.

Yeah yeah, this guy, what did I keep everything around and look at all the time. I mean, he is I fucking hate him, but he's popular act.

But he also like he also wears a mask.

It's like you kind of know in some way that you're not doing the right, that you're like I don't know. But this guy also seems like he has like some kind of low IQ or something like that.

I'm going through his IMDb because he is so familiar to me.

I mean he's buzz.

He's buzz, but I wouldn't know him from that, Like his adult face looks so familiar.

But I'm looking through it and I'm like, I don't he works a lot?

Like, wait, he was in Louis No, he's like in a few He's Oh he was in girls but party guest.

There's no way I would remember. Yeah, how do I know him? Just? Maybe it is just from home alone?

Yeah, buzz from home alone and the next home, the second home alone. The actor's name is Devin Rotree or Ratrey, and he is working, I mean he is still working, does work.

He's booked and blast baby.

So all this shits up, and uh, there's like, yeah, freeze frame of Larissa from like the moment before Patrick at like interrupted and what he's like about to attack her. Sabler finds a pillowcase on the couch, spills it out. It's filled with VHS tapes and photos. They hear a beeping and they see that he's left his email account open and that he's just sending himself photos and they open one and it's Larissa in her hospital bed.

Fuck. This guy is at the hospital like horrific.

So they call Live and now we see Live dashing into Larissa's room, but she's gone, and a nurse shows up and goes, what are you doing? And Orderly took her for testing twenty minutes ago, and the nurse IDs eld m baylog from a photo as the Orderly, So now Live has them lock this fucking hospital down Elliot's back. Now they're checking every floor looking for Larissa. Elliott finds

And kill him. I want to kill him. Stabler flies at this Jude like the Stabler goes.

Like forward like a bullet, slams this guy into a roll of locker, a row of lockers, and then just proceeds to beat the shit out of him. Finn has to pull him off and lives just like the son of a bitch attacked her again and then the dude is sitting there smiling like an idiot, so you can't tell whether he's like pure evil or just like not all the marbles are upstairs, So top of BC two, Larissa is finally awake, and she is not happy.

She's like, how.

Could this happen after everything I've been through? Like what the fuck? And she's about to walk out. She's like, this hospital, let me get raped, like a second time, and Benson begs her to stay and is like, please let the doctors keep an eye on it.

I love this your notes.

I love the Larissa is finally awake and she is not happy.

Because it's been a.

Full act and we haven't seen Taren Manning say one word yet, like and now she's up dressed.

And pissed, and she's like, lives, like, let's stay here.

Let the doctors keep an eye on her, on you, And she's like, oh, because they're doing such a great job, like they just fucking let my attacker walk me out of here, and she wants to know what the hell Benson even wants out of all of this, and she's like, I just want to tell you that we caught him and he's never gonna hurt you again. So she calms down for a second and asks Olivia, like, did he take pictures?

Right before I passed out?

He told me he was going to take pictures, and I was wondering if he took pictures, and she goes, no, he took a video, and Larissa goes not again. So Live starts putting the pieces together and goes, so, this happened when you were a child, you were brandy, and she says, yeah, and I always will be, like I can feel when I'm on the street, when I'm in

Larissa, so our good friend, Meghan Fahey, just our friend of the pod.

So don't worry, we are still humble, wet. We did not get Taren Manning. So if that was something you were hoping for listening that that.

Was not happening.

It's not happening, but you know, we'll always have Meghan fay Hey in our hearts.

Of course. Of course.

So she says that the guy who attacked her is not the guy who attacked her as a child. She's like, this last guy followed me home, broke in. I screamed, he shoved pills down my throat, and as she was passing out, she remembers him saying, this is the happiest day of my life.

So fucked up. So cut to him saying these words too.

He's going, this is the happiest day of He's finishing the sentence and me realizing that it is buzz from home alone, like I hadn't noticed until just this moment. And he tells the detectives he's been looking for Brandy for years. He starts telling Stabler that after he shaved her, if he squinted his eyes, she looked like she was little. Again, like, it's so casey. He's making a disgusted face. Yeah, yeah, he does not like, yeah, he's grinning because he's like reliving it.

And then they show him pictures of Kelly and Paula.

The ten year olds and he goes aw and they're like, these are the two girls you raped and he goes, it wasn't rape.

They played Brandy for me.

So this is when you start to realize this guy has no concept like he is a a pedophile, but he's on like another plane of understanding how the law or society works, like he doesn't get it. And then he admits to selling to sending Paula the letter about Coventry.

He says, what I did with them was natural.

His love for Brandy is pure and honest, as real as the love you feel for your wife. And it's like you do not talk to Stabler about his wife and equate his love for his wife with the love of a.

Pedophile on a child.

And he is trying so hard not to bash this man's face in like that is what Christopher Maloney is so good at, like just showing so much rage and kind of like trying to stay calm, and Stabler tells him, you're insane, and he goes, no, no, just jealous, and he goes, I was jealous of the old man, and he goes, I never meant to murder him. Another reason, Like this guy is just off his Rocker. He's just like confessing to murder, saying rape isn't rape, Like what's happening with him?

Eldon says that the old man is named Underwood.

And he met him online and he knew Brandy as a child, this guy Underwood, and he just wanted him to give up Brandy's real name. So at Orville Underwood's home on Grove Street, Benson, which is in the West Village, Benson and Stabler find signs of a struggle and blood, and then they find a man alive but bloody, wearing

All this, she went to the hospital.

Then he went back to the hospital, kidnapped her, assaulted her again. In all this time, this old man's just been sitting here bleeding and not dead.

I thought, Okay, so I think it's one of those like one hundred and twenty seven hours, but instead of a limb rockets, you know.

An old man bleeding with a head wound.

Yes, okay, So he goes it's always this way ever since they accused me of raping that girl.

So he's trying to play like little old man.

And his bed has a pillow on it that's missing a pillowcase, and the other pillowcases matched the one that Stabler dumped out at Elden's place. So Underwood said he only gave Eldon Larissa's real name because he threatened to kill him. So liv realizes that this old pervert Underwood is the one who turned Larissa into Brandy. And Underwood is played by an actor named David Patrick Kelly who

So booked. David Patrick Kelly's also the one in The Warriors who is like Warriors come out to play a favorite? Saw that movie? Oh? I never seen that?

But can we keep that in because I like you doing the imitation. Sure, okay, Casey stop coming for me. I'm the imitator on this podcast, but I've never seen that movie. So we cut to Larissa telling Live about her abduction. She when she was a child, she was like, I was playing hide and go seek with my friends. I hid behind a car. This guy grabbed me, drugged like, pushed me in his car, drugged me. And then she said Underwood drugged her every day, made her do these

You just don't need If.

You're not going to report one of them missing when they go missing, just don't. She was ten years old. It wasn't like she ran off with a boyfriend to start a new life. You know, she's a little child. So we're cutting back and forth between lives convo with Larissa. So Larissa says, eventually Daniel saved her. He was a kid who was in captivity with her, was a little bit older and was forced to make movies with her.

The cops came.

It was Underwood, and they arrested him, and he was charged with kidnapping Larissa in nineteen ninety five, plus rape and creating and distributing child sex abuse images. But Larissa said that he was the one that committed all these crimes against her, but she never saw his face, and the lack of physical evidence led the jury to acquit him. And it's like, you guys didn't find any videos, you

Get on it?

And he goes, well, I was at Eldon's house. We were having drinks. This is literally this guy telling the story is like me telling the ra that busted me for having an ashtray full of cigarettes in college that I pick up the cigarette butts outside and bring them in and put them in the ash tray.

Like just the most bizarre, like wild story.

But you almost can't argue with it because I was saying it with such conviction because I lived in a non smoking dorm where I smoked a lot.

So it's like, why says to think of you as a smoker? I know, isn't it?

But like my friends from college will like always imitate me smoking in college.

I guess I can see it. Yeah, I guess I can't see it, but I also can't see you. Like leaving a party to go smoke.

I know, but I you know, I would mostly leave when other people were going. I'd be like, do we all go want to go smoke? Like it was like a fun social thing. So many people smoked. Yeah, but every don't do it everyone, Easy way to quit smoking.

I'm always plugging that book. It's the best. It's a great book. I actually had. I felt really bad.

Someone was talking to me and I ended up saying something about cigarettes, and they're like, why did you say that. I'm like, well, I could tell you smoked, and he's like, you can smell the cigarettes on me, and I was like, I can. I'm sorry I forgot that was good, but I do feel yeah, you just can.

And it hurts my throat so much. I can't.

I am not even tempted, even on full drugs and booze. Like I obviously I had my high school Newport phase. I obviously had my Marlboro light like clubbing things. I had my I do comedy camel light parliament, but I was never that.

I just parliaments for mine.

I just it's like sick to me. It's like I try to get addicted and put it not a.

Breath and if I'm if I'm wasted, I'll be like, let me have a dress and I'll take one drag and be like why why did I think this was going to be good?

Again? Like I hate it, Like but I loved it a lot of time.

I know it's hard to imagine, but I mean, you know, my throat hurts now too, and I just keep it, yeah, plugging along.

We all just keep moving.

So this guy is truly weaving the most bizarre story. He says he's hanging out with this guy who attacked him. Is there any proof that you guys knew each other. Prior to the attack, he says, they were having a drink and then Elden got a phone call and Underwood got hit with a sudden urge to jerk off, and Stabler goes, so, you're just sitting there in another guy's house and suddenly you decide that it's time to peel the banana, which is not a phrase for jerking off.

And it's like, what the fuck is this story?

Sabler and Finn are obviously not buying this bullshit.

Not to mention, there's kind of like an age thing.

The photo is like an old photo of Brandy from when she was ten, and I bet you that guy Elden was like also ten like when that picture was taken, So where did he get that picture? You know? Like it's just if you were to present that to a jury, I feel like they would understand that it was this s guy's fucking picture and that this is a full lie.

Sable and Finn.

Also so many things that you're kind of like asking and hinting at.

Do you have to do with the crime? Oh?

Okay, okay, now, Like there are just certain things that you're saying where I'm like, yeah, okay, good because I don't even know these crimes, and I'm I'm you know, so Stable and Finn are not buying this guy's bullshit, and he goes, prove me wrong. You got twenty four hours from the moment of my rest to arraign me. And it's like, oh yeah, we forgot the pervert as a lawyer now, and Finn goes from kitty diddler to hump hustler.

That's not much of an improvement.

And I don't like either of those words, but I do like Finn trying to sock it to this guy. Underwood's like, well, you two can keep talking about my jizz, or you can go find that probable cause to hold me, because you've got twenty two hours and thirty eight minutes before I walk a freeman. And this guy is nasty, like there's something worse than these criminals that kind of like know the law a little bit and use it

So I don't know what she's doing now.

She's married to another actor and seems on Instagram they've got a happy life, but no more acting for her. So she tells them to cut the old pervert loose and that they don't have enough to hold him on. And he's a lawyer and he knows how to spin this, and Finn and Stabler just cannot believe that the Jiz photo is not enough, and she's like, she's like. Possession is defined as dominion and control. She says a fingerprint would prove it was in his hand. Finding it in

But you know, they do a lot of meetings by the elevators or entering and exiting the confession rooms.

This is a nice spin, you know.

A little spin, Yeah, with the cab yep, yep, yep, and she feels sick, like she's traumatized, so visually like her trying I.

Can't help the media finger what the fuck?

Yeah, So Benson and stabl are like run up to him to get her away from, like shoe him away, and she vomits all over.

Stabler and that's the end of act two. Top of act three.

She's like, sorry for barfing on you, and he's like, I needed to get my suit cleaned anyway, And she says she hadn't seen underwear. It would since the trial sixteen years ago, so you know, just getting out of a cab and seeing this man who did to you and you haven't seen him in a decade and a half.

They ask, but if you could help us.

Track down Daniel, if we find him, he'd be a new accuser because they can't charge him again for Larissa without new evidence. I'm always confused by double jeopardy because sometimes you can do a new thing if it's new evidence.

But I don't know. I guess that he'd be a new accuser.

So Larissa is like, dude, do you realize I've spent my entire life trying to forget about this and now you want me to relive it.

And they're like, not relive.

Just remember It's like, okay, semantics, h something about Daniel, like anything, like where he came from in his life, like where he was, like before his abduction, like anything.

She goes All I can remember is his smile the day that I got away. And so now.

Huang is telling live about how everyone deals with in different ways, and she's built cognitive walls between her present and her painful past and lives like, okay, how do we break through those walls? Huang is like, well, hypnosis could work, but it gets pulled apart on the stand and she's like, well, we really only needed to find Daniel.

It doesn't need to go on the stand.

But then Huang has this realization where he's like, so these movies were made in the nineties, but they didn't hit the internet until two thousand and five, So at the trial in ninety six, the videos weren't even available yet he hadn't put them online, meaning it's possible that she's never seen these movies that she was forced to make.

So disgusting. Anyway, Huang's like.

It's possible that she's never seen these movies that she was forced to make, and that maybe showing them could trigger some memories and lips like if it doesn't destroy her, and Huang's like, it's as bad I like to take it.

Obviously, yes, Olivia will.

Stop at nothing for justice, so it is worth it to her and she is going to take the risk. And the next scene is Larissa watching the movies. She says she's willing to do it if it will get Underwood. So she points out Daniel in the video, and she doesn't remember this day specifically. She remembers a dress that she's wearing and that she hated it and stuff, and that he made her wear it. But she says that Underwood drugged her for that video the same way he

One made out of rope.

She goes, I was wearing that the day it escaped, and I buried it in a jar in the backyard of my Foster home. And she said I buried it, and I made a wish that Daniel would find me someday.

So cut to a.

Bunch of texts and Finn digging up a backyard while Munch complains about the cold, and they find something. Boom, it's a jar with the bracelet in it. So now at the lab, Adrian Sung is back and he's telling us how he found some partial DNA from the degraded bracelet and he's matched it to a kid named Daniel Brooks, missing since nineteen ninety five when he.

Was twelve years old.

Lucky that they had DNA on Daniel Brooks, because I wouldn't say ninety five. We were collecting DNA from every missing kid, which they probably got off like a toothbrush or a hair brush anyway. So they're like, well, if he didn't escape Underwood, Underwood probably killed him. But turns out he is alive, That DNA has popped for prostitution and shoplifting in the two thousands, and they say, now he owns an abandoned factory in Lower Manhattan. Curious, cut

So we see Daniel. We don't always.

We don't always get this point of view in the show where like now we see Daniel watching the detectives on security cameras and he's like, let's go, and he grabs a little boy and heads upstairs and leaves this

Michael Jackson style.

Yes, he's like holding him blanket style from Michael Jackson exactly and threatening to push him off if Stabler doesn't back off.

Michael.

The little boy is very scared. He's like oh, And then Stabler says, Daniel, I'm sorry. Nobody was there to save you, but now you have a choice. He's like, I've never had a choice. And Stabler's like, that boy's innocent, just like you were. You can take care of him, you can save him. And so Stabler finally gets through to him. Daniel puts the kid down. So now we're in interrogation and Daniel is sitting in very low light across from Olivia Benson and her beautiful hair, and he's like,

So done done. End of Act three.

Now, Benson and Stabler are watching through the fish bowl glass and lives like, look, he adapted to survive after his abduction, and Stabler's like, I don't know. He made his own cho after he got away, and Huang's like, well, he's essentially been brainwashed. His whole worldview was altered after Underwood took him, and we've seen this before. Wang says his evolution from victim to victimizer could be his way of taking control of his fucked up life.

And we see the little girl from the.

Warehouse, Heather and Michael being walked into the precinct with some you know, loose adults, and Live says they're going to need a lot of help, and Huang's like, yeah, with a lot of therapy, they have a chance. And so they're worried that without Daniel they can't get Underwood, but Finn arrives with some good news. During a search of Underwood's house, they found a panel in a wall leading to a whole bunch of stuff that they think

Ooh after the trial, I always hate when the books go to trial. You know, it's never going to be a good case. Yes, when you're going for the books, you got no evidence.

Yeah, it's really fucked so yeah, because what was the other one where there was like a brochure of like how we covered this one?

But It's like there's a brochure of exactly how.

To get this, and they keep emailing it to the guy, even though he keeps unsubscribing, unsubscribing.

Oh, I remember that one.

But also in the the titty cut Off and he becomes famous with uh Katie Perry's best friend. Yes, Shannon Woodward that one, I feel like his comic books. But which one kept sending the pedophile stuff, I don't know.

I can't remember. We covered it.

We covered it because he's like working at an ad agency and we were like, how did he get this? Like you know, But after the trial, they say Underwood put these videos online, but since he couldn't risk making any more movies, he started writing quote unquote kitty porn novels.

That's what they're calling it. Another one of.

These books, Live says, is how to for pedophiles, basically just like writing instruction manuals. And Finn says, this is the one moment where I disagree with the First Amendment. This stuff should be banned, and Stabler says it's perverts hiding behind free speech and calling it literature. Without pictures, there's nothing they can get this guy on. So Olivia reads from the How to Get a Brandy book, and it's basically instructions that Elden followed exactly to attack Larissa.

He's like, is his name written in the book?

And also the girl name is Brandy and this girl's name is Larissa, so your theory falls apart. It's like, what a psycho. It's like, you know, you renamed her, like you're disgusting. Hardwick thinks a jury will make the connection. Underwood argues that conspiracy has to involve two people agreeing to commit a crime unless she's a mind reader.

She's talking out of her ass.

That's what he says in court, and the judge doesn't like that, and Hardwick goes, whatever, I can hate handle anything this toad throws at me. And then the judge tells them both to shut up. He's like, I want fifteen minutes to examine the facts, and Larissa is in the courtroom when they come back from the recess. The judge unfortunately says that even though this kind of case makes him want to retire and he finds this writing to be disgusting, he has to dismiss the case because

It was worse off where they came from.

Even like when we talked to like Laura Gomez's character is like gathering all these girls and is like, whatever, they're throwaways.

No one cares about them.

In my movies, he says, they get to feel my love and the love of our family, and she says, you had a family and Underwood stole you from them, and he did it to me too, and she's like, please, we need your help. We have to put them away. And he's like, what will punishing him even change? And Daniel says we're broken. Nothing can fix us. And Larissa's like, I don't believe that. And he's like, it's been fifteen years.

But also that he would say a girl named Brandy, It's like, we all know who Brandy is. Yeah, you're using so many extra words for this emergency that you're in.

Yes, so they skit Snicket. He does. He has like classic, like mean, old like man energy.

I feel like more pervert than me. And even is Lemony Snicket a pervert? No, physically Lemony Snicket.

Maybe Lemony Snicket is a pervert.

I don't know who knows way in in the commons. So they rush to Underwood's house and the bedroom is locked with Underwood in it, and you can hear him saying, but I loved you, Brandy, I never meant to hurt you, and she's like shut the fuck up, like and we hear pop pop, two gunshots. They bust into the room and he has a bullet through his chest and one through his forehead, and hell, yes, this fucker is dead, like deader than a door nail, and I love it.

The maybe at the end is like kind.

Of sad like because it's like, yeah, it's maybe over in this moment, but his videos are up. People have disseminated these books and these how to manuals like this, like fight against Pedophiles is kind of like never over.

It feels like no and it never will be no.

Also, she probably needs more therapy too, Yeah, so fucked. And also we never saw the boyfriend again? Did he ditch her in this trying time?

I know where Patrick?

He seemed to really care about her, Like why wasn't he at court? Like why wasn't he help?

I know he wasn't at court. Maybe he's maybe he's in the house.

They don't want to pay that guy day rate. He only had a scalp laceration and I don't think he was still in the hospital. And the time it takes for her to get to court.

I don't know. But but that's that and a wild episode. It is.

It is wild because the name of the episode. They are sort of like clever even with the one named episodes, because like it's called Possessed, which you think of as like the Exorcist or some shit, but like it's about like these guys like possess this girl, like they think they own her because they've fallen in love with her on these videos and like she can't break free from all these people thinking that she's theirs. And that's like the Megan Baky episode two.

Well, and then also reminds me of Avatar now that we're talking about it, the pigtail girl there, it's like she just wanted her forever. And my thing is, even if this wasn't pedophiles normal like of aged people, this is Bonker's behavior. You can't do that, Like, you can't just become obsessed with you know what I mean. It's

I hate them so much.

I am glad Buzz died in jail, and I'm glad this guy got shot in the head. I mean, at the end of the day, they're both dead, but there's pedophiles alive everywhere, closer than you think.

But right these.

Two we got to see at least be dead, and that was satisfying. I liked seeing Lemony Snicket get the old pop through the forehead.

And I must felt so good for her.

Maybe that's the therapy she needed, just fucking popping in the mass.

Yeah, oh I'm so hungry.

I'm so excited just to see what I'm gonna eat, Like who knows, but.

It was your oyster. But first the crimes. First the crime.

So we've covered the Coventry before with Colleen stant and another crime, and it's you know, we do it all the time or do we always say we'll talk about it later and then we never talk about it.

I don't know the Coventry in Colleen stand they were called the company, right, isn't that what he called them?

The company?

And then I forgot what they were called in the abducted in plain Sight where the guy was having sex with the mom and dad just so he could get to the girl. But he kept telling her that there was like this alien this thing was like alien involved.

Yeah, but yeah, these guys are they should get into fiction writing instead of molestation. How about that? Like they really have some imaginations. Okay, So well I didn't cover it. Okay, so this is I'm not covering these pedophile lies. So this is Alex Cabarga case. But also Tara Burke. That might be a name that is familiar to you. That was like a big kidnapping, and we'll get into it.

Okay, so listen.

He is a piece of shit, but you know his name is. I'll call him tree Frog.

We'll see.

But I like I like frogs. They are my friend's biggest fear. Yes, I try to respect her. I didn't last time I was at the zoo, I didn't go into the frog area or in. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna stick with her.

That's really nice.

Thank you so much for you to hear her and hold her, hold space for her phobia.

What do you think it's even called fear of frogs?

Oh?

I bet it's something great. Hold on. It's got a little name, fear of frogs. Rana daphobia, Rana da phobia, Rana daphobia, okay, cool, all right.

So he was a third three year old transient tree Frog, and he shared the group's goals of throwing off old taboos.

He believed in complete freedom for children.

Oh look at that, and quickly befriended the five year old Alex and his two older brothers, and they all started hanging out a lot, and the parents, the Camargo parents, didn't love tree Frog, but allowed him full access to their children and adopted the open mindedness that this new lifestyle called for. So then two years later, Alex's parents divorced and she took custody of the boys and moved to a trailer near the warehouse. And then Treefrog lived in an old school bus on the same property and

Oh my god.

And later the mom is quoted saying she was just tired of being a parent.

So that's that.

So then he was living in a van with Lewis Treefrog Johnson after getting custody, and obviously a lot of physical and sexual abuse became Alex's regular life, and he was denied food if he did not partake in sex. So and then for money, Johnson would sell the videos of him raping Alex. And then and he had like, it's not radical. I don't like the way I was reading about it. I guess it's like we have to stop their their philosophy in the cult.

It's like fucking predators whatever.

But it's at his radical dogma of free love between adults and children, a pedophile. And so he then decided that he wants to kidnap a young girl and he would raise her according to his radical tenants, and then he would like have his own child that he could raise under his beliefs. So for nearly ten years, Alex was Johnson's sex slave in this van. He was denied access to outside information or social connections.

He did not go to.

School and was repeatedly told that that their way of life was morally superior, and he was taught to fear the outside world and distrust everyone except for tree Frog, so that even if he was presented with opportunity to escape, Cabargo was too afraid to attempt that. He didn't have a sense of self before being indoctrinated, so he had no point of reference to the outside world from which to understand what was happening to him. And that's because he was five, right, Yeah, So this is from an

His life, like this is life for him. Yeah.

Yeah, So when he turned seventeen, Johnson decided, like I'm kidnapping a girl and Alex Yeah, seventeen, he helped tree Frog kidnap a young girl.

So Tara Burke.

She was kidnapped February sixth, nineteen eighty two, a few months shy of her third birthday.

Oh, I know, and that's so much younger than I thought it was going to be. Should I have done a warning? It's bad? Oh, it's okay.

So she was taken from her well, because he wants someone with no understanding of the world right now. So she was taken from her parents' car in a shopping center in Concord, California. And her parents drove into Concord from Pittsburgh, California to exchange a part at an auto supply store. It was a quick errand so I left her in the car with her nine year old brother and dashed inside. I mean, I don't want to be judgmental, but it's like, couldn't one parent have gone in?

I know, two of you need to do the auto part. Yeah, it's weird, or you would take one of the kids.

I don't know.

It's just like their math is weird to me. But that's rude. I feel rude, But that is what I thought, moments, but also like, how do you plan this or do you just sit in a shopping center waiting for this moment and you dash? But like basically, moments later, a young man knocked on the window said, oh, your mom wants you Jeremy. The older brother opened the door, and the kidnapper snatched Tara, flung her over his shoulder, and raced to a nearby apartment complex, where he jumped into

Do they drive around?

Like I just don't get how the universe collapsed in this wild way or are they just always ready? But how was the car in the apartment complex?

You know what I mean? Yeah?

Did they stalk this family? Like I just have so many questions about just the snatching, right, No, that's good, those are good questions. And she's so little, so it's like it's not like she could test. I mean the brother, I guess okay. Anyways, So then thirty four year old Dick Gordy was a sergeant in the Concord Police Juvenile Bureau and he would take the lead on the case, and he carried a photo of her with him during

The van element is just like so fucked.

So then another boy was kidnapped, unfortunately, but because of him, he ended up escaping and he led police to the van.

So it's really fucked up.

And he also had bad parents, like he willingly was able to go like a lot of they have bad parents and criminals know who to take. Okay, So this boy was Vietnamese. His name was Mac Lynn. He was an eleven year old boy and obviously a hero. So what happened was tree Frog offered him two hundred dollars to babysit the little girl, and like that's how he was lured. And then he became a victim too again you know, sexually abused be in with a rubber hose

But that guy, what's his name, you know, oh John Walsh.

Yeah, so Mack climbed from the van's roof ventilator and asked him man he knew. Well, I found conflicting reports. Someone said a man that he knew, and then someone said he ran to two women that he knew. So I'm not sure who he ran to, but like he ran to people that he trusted knew because, like I said, his parents were kind of bad too. And he was eventually awarded eleven thousand dollars and he would have gotten

Caring in any capacity.

And I hope he has lived a good life with his foster family. It was hard to find his whereabouts, which I think is good. So then when the cops busted in, Cabargo was in bed with Tara, both naked from the waist down, and when they searched the van, they found two home movies and hundreds of pictures of Tara participating in you know things she was to do.

And brainwashed beyond belief.

Jesus, it's really fucked and the possessed comes out more here. But it is like she's so fucking young, like to have like this little kid knowing all this fucked up shit, Like, yeah, it's And so when she got home, she started therapy right away, and it was funded by the Victims of Violent Crime program, but the maximount was ten grand and it ran out really quick, and their family was poor, and she regressed and it was a lot of issues.

And then new legislation passed.

And they were given new money, more money, and she resumed counseling.

But yeah, fucked.

Eventually she enrolled in school under her mother's maiden names, so her classmates and like their parents would know who she was. But from fifth grade on she went back to using her own name, and she did not want to hide. And the men were taken into custody right away. So Louis Johnson thirty three and Alex Cabarga eighteen. Cabargo's defense was that his actions were committed under Johnson's influence.

This whole time. Okay, So Tara.

Took the stand and had an emotionally charged testimony, and the judge, Robert Doce, issued his sentence right after the two days of testimony in a hushed courtroom.

So put the little girl on the stand. Yeah.

Wow, I didn't even think about that while I was writing and reading that. I just feel like most of the time in this show, at least they'll be like, well, we can't put the little girl in the stand. She's too young, you know, like they don't really put super little kids on the stand.

Damn ugh. Anyway.

July fourth, nineteen eighty four, it's reported that the nineteen year old Caberga was convicted of kidnapping and sexual abuse. He got life despite a California Youth Authority evaluation that said he is capable of rehabilitation. Robert dose did sentence Cabarga to two hundred and eight years for ninety three counts involving abduction, and sex crimes. The judge believed he would be a danger to other children in the California Youth Authority because he had been diagnosed to pedophile, so

Appellate Justice Jerome A.

Smith wrote, according to the La Times, a sentence of life imprisonment for Cabarga, who the evidence overwhelmingly discloses was Johnson's third victim, is constitutionally excessive.

So the court held.

Up the charges but changed the sentence, and he was paroled in nineteen ninety five. And he lives in the Bay Area and you can find his address on the sexual Registry.

And I even know how somebody like him could be reintroduced into society when he's been abused since like no schooling, like five years old. This is what he thinks, Like reality is like, I don't know, how do you like deprogram someone who's that deeply brainwashed? He wasn't I guess he was only in prison for ten years. Fuck, maybe he got mental health services in prison. Oh my god, I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah.

Burke at age nine, says she wanted him jailed forever and she still fears him. But it's just tough because it makes me mad that he's out.

He did commit but he is a victim, Like I don't know. Yeah.

So I found more academic journals. So this one is from the University of Alabama's School of Law. So it's entitled Are We Responsible for Who We Are? The Challenge for Criminal Law Theory and the Defenses of course of indoctrination and in quotes Rotten social background, and like, did Alex stand a chance to fight against this depraved life with lack of anchor problem? Like I mentioned earlier, he didn't have an internal normative conflict over what he was doing.

Yeah, like, how does he know the difference between right and wrong? He was ever taught him.

That from five, Like we are cult that's why not everyone should be parents. Okay, it's the classic abused people will abuse people. But he didn't know what was wrong because he hated it and he knew what it was like. But he did not have enough worldly influences and built up understanding of right and wrong, especially you know with

But I don't know.

I'm not gonna say she's selling houses and doing Okay, oh boy, god, that is fucking brutal.

It's about That's why when you said that the initial guy like didn't he seemed kind of like he didn't even understand what was happening, you know what I mean.

Like, that's why I thought of all of this.

Yeah, and it leads back to these parents giving up their kid to this guy that was molesting them and like.

That there's no.

Yeah, that there's kind of no checks and balances for that kind of thing. If you're just like a parent that gives your kid away no one and they don't go to school, there's really like no way to track anything happening to them in any way.

You know, I've talked about this other one before, but if this is a case that interested in anyway, the girl in the picture on Netflix is like that, like really bad, it'll make you really.

Upset if you want to all ready to get devastated.

I'm no guessed, so.

No guests, so nothing to nothing to clear the air here except for me and Lisa try to talk it over.

Yeah post more time.

Ugh, cults are bad, pedophiles are bad, the laws are bad.

Everyone's bad. Don't leave your kids in a car.

I mean this was the eighties though, and you know in the sixties seventies eighty is way more well I don't know if way moore, but yeah, you would leave your kids in the car. I doubt people were even leaving a little hole for in the hot weather. Like, yeah, we're seatbelts even around who knows.

Yeah, really I was not wearing a seatbelt all the time in the eighties.

I'm still so anti seat I've gotten messages I wear my seatbelt relax, but it.

Really I like crazy, I like have to have one or I feel weird in a car.

But but I my dad's fault.

He told me in the backseat you don't have to, and obviously that's bad advice.

So all right, give us a second. We're gonna hop into our post mortem. So that was a wild one. I Terren Manning is very good in it. Uh, and so is a baby Sabrina Carpenter with her tiny little her tiny little cameo.

It must be really hard to be good at playing these highly emotional damaged characters, because I'm sure it gets exhausting. Yeah, I bet, I guy, it's exhausting playing like victims of rape over and over again.

Yes, you know, Yeah, it's a lot because her character, her character in Orange is the new Black, Like it's like one. It's a masterclass and a character growing on you, you know, because like at the beginning, she's very villainous, like you hate you want to hate her like, and then she just has so many twists and turns and

You know.

I think they would just sit down with the writers and be like, everybody, just write a couple things down from your nightmares, and then we're going to turn it into a character.

Uh No, I would say that this is the worst, one of the worst things I've ever researched, and it's bothered.

Me ever since.

Yeah, and it'll probably continue to never leave my brain for the rest of my life and probably the people listening, like, I don't know, it is just bad.

Yes, I have literally thought of your research multiple times since we recorded this episode, Like I it's I mean, that's like and dig what happened to these kids and that like this this boy was taken so young and basically just like turned into a monster. Like it's it's oh my god crazy. We don't have to relive it, but we don't.

But now and even though white vans are obviously always connected to molesters and creeps. Now there's a nether level. I peek in, I get a new fear of white vans.

Yeah, if there's a tiny little window or any sliver, I'm peeking in. I'm like, anyone in there, bang twice if you need help, Like I, vans are who they're tough.

Well, I don't know if I told you know, because I'm addicted to my phone. So I was just like on my phone, just like sucked into whatever I was doing. And then I looked to the left of me and I was truly standing in front of a white van that was open, fully wide with tools, and I'm like, oh, I could be pushed in it, Like why am I standing here?

Like I oh god?

You know what's like crazy too?

Is that?

Like since we've recorded this episode, we've recorded another episode about somebody getting grabbed into a white van Like so oh yes, literally it's that common. But anyway, I don't know what the post mortem takeaway lesson is here.

It's just you don't have kids.

If you don't want to have kids, do not have children, do not sign parental rights, like, do not have kids if you are not fully equipped to have children. I mean, that's the number one lesson here.

Unfortunately, some states are forcing you to do that. So I guess if you're being forced to have a child and you don't want it, please try to get to another state and not have the child.

All right, That was insensitive depending on where you live, so that.

But yes, so in general, don't have kids to put a band aid on your relationship. Don't have kids because your mom told you to. Don't have kids because you think someone will take care of you when you're older.

Don't do that.

But let's get into our what would Sister Peg do for the week. This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization, an article, a doc, something to give you more info about what we talked about today. And I wanted to point you guys this week to an organization called Helping Survivors. Their group's mission is to quote help, heal, educate, and empower people who have been

That will, as usual.

Be saved in our WWSPD highlight which is on our Instagram page which is Thats Messed Up Pod.

Come follow us, guys. We're posting fun shit over there. We're posting games, we're posting videos, we're posting homework. You know we're fun.

And next week we'll be covering the episode's Spring Awakening from season fifteen, episode twenty four.

We'll see you then, everyone, enjoy your lives. Bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

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And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media that the time