Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
These are our stories.
Done done, Hi, Hi, Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up nsview podcasts.
I'm Kara, Hi Kara, and I am Lisa, And every week we.
Talk about an episode of svuw the true crime it's based on. And then we talked to an incredible guest from the episode and post Thanksgiving bliss of an episode, how do you feel feeling good?
Feeling you know, I'm pumped for I'm pumped for December.
I like I'm going home for the holidays. I'm excited.
Yeah, traveling with two kids would get me really pumped too.
Yeah, well you know what you know, speaking of pumped, I'm not pumping anymore. So that will make me traveling so much easier. I didn't know that you're cutting off the kids.
You're done.
I'm on the My boobs are clothses for business. Baby, Yeah, we're done. I made it to six months with this kid and I'm done.
What was the last moment. What was the moment you said I'm gonna.
It's enough.
I honestly, like, I pumped for like twenty minutes and like only I only got like three ounces, And I was like, what am I doing?
That's not even like a one meal for this kid. I was like, I'm done. I'm just And I had to go to.
New York, UH for a little forty eight hour trip, and I was like, I'm not bringing all my pump shit just for a forty eight hour trip, and I was like, I'm just done.
So it's fine.
I mean, he's already eating some solids and he's on he's been on formula for a while.
It's not, it's not.
I just want everyone who's listening who's a mom to not feel that pressure of like, you gotta get to a year. Everybody says you got to get to a year. You absolutely don't have to get to a year. You actually don't have to fucking breastfeed at all if you don't want too. It only works if it works for both of you. That's what my mom says, and that's what I believe anyway. And she's a doctor, yeah, a
doctor and a mother of six kids. So I wanted to tell you, speaking of my family members, My brother, who's also a doctor, was visiting me and he was like, well, I've been listening to the podcast. I see Lisa's very into whippits these days.
Only have done it once, I just can't wait to do it again, and I want to pick a celebratory moment, so I don't make it a regular thing, because I do.
I think you have the exact right You have the exact right idea about.
It, because I was basically like, what did Colin say?
Well?
I was like, Colin, what's the deal with it? Like what happens?
And he goes, well, you can't have some problems if you do them like habitually, like all the time, all the time, like anything. Nothing is good in abundance, you know, like you can't do everything in moderation. So then he texted me a couple of days later and was like, I just saw a patient who was a young guy with spinal dysfunction due to nitrous oxide abuse aka whippets. So he goes, it does happen abuse? This is somebody doing it abusively? Yeah, yeah, I have no reason. My
brain is important to me. I have no reason to get addicted to whippets. But that's why I'm waiting, Like that's why I keep talking about it, where it's like, am I just gonna do whippets on Christmas?
Am I gonna do am on New Year's? Am I gonna wait till Martin Luther King Day?
Like?
When am I gonna do it?
Because I don't want it to become a regular thing at all?
Right, No, and I don't. I'm not worried about you.
I don't think I'm gonna need to have a whippet intervention with you at any point.
No.
No, there's more problems that I There's more things that I love more like weed and cheese.
Okay, wait though, can we also move on to a totally different topic, of course?
Please?
Recently I texted you that I was at a very small, twenty person party with the drummer from Real Red Hot Chili Peppers. Oh my god, yeah, all I thought, like the second I saw him, I just saw your tattoo in my mind, No, and he looks like Will Ferrell Famous recognized him? I go, who is the guy that's famous that looks like Will Ferrell?
And in my mind, I go, it's the guy from Dad Jai Peppers. Oh my god, So did you chat with him about drumming or what and no, no, he was like playing ping pong with his kid.
I wasn't gonna be like hi, and it seemed like nobody knew who he was, so I was like cool. But I also remembered that my friend from high school is his niece, so I could have had an easy end if I wanted to talk to him.
Wow, but yeah, he's really cool. Drummers are usually really cool. And I remember one of the documentaries they were like working on an album and all the rest of the band lived in a house and he would ride his motorcycle home every night.
He's like, I'm not staying here. Yeah, he seemed really cool. He was like dressed like a really cool dad. And I was like, wait, that's not Will Ferrell. That's the famous guy that looks like Will Ferrell.
And I figured it out. Yes, I love that. Oh.
I was talking to there's a comedian Jennif Friedman, and her husband is a musician, and I couldn't believe it. We were talking and he's in Taco bell commercials. I was like, I can't be more impressed. Nothing will impress me more. His music is Yeah, he's in a band, and they Taco Bell has licensed his music time and time again. He's like in Taco Bell commercials. He also had like dinner with Paul Simon. I was like, I don't care. I don't care about this because I was like,
have you ever met your heroes? I was like, who are your heroes? Have you met them? I was bothering him, for sure. I was asking lots of questions.
I think Paul Simon lives in my hometown. But you're not impressed.
The Taco Bell got me excited. I'm a new convert.
I mean, I've been going to Taco Bell more than I'd like to admit lately, because I get I just didn't know ever that they had vegetarian stuff. So I get the black bean crunch t raup supreme. That thing is good.
Oh yeah, and you can do potatoes too, if you can stuff it with potatoes if you don't want the beans, yeah, or at potatoes. I mean, I really love a Cheesygordiita crunch. I wonder with potato. I bet that's delicious.
Ooh okay, let's go try that.
Try a cheesy Gordida. I'm not I'm trying not to do cheese. I can't keep I like ruined myself in New York. I had too much fun. It was like bagelegg and cheeses, Philly cheese steaks, and then in between shows I had to go home and fart for hours and like change outfits.
I was like, I can't do it. I can't.
I guess it's age, because I also thought I had all these cancerous moles and I went to the dermatologists and they were like, these are not moles at all. It's this thing and it just happens with age. And I was like, fuck, yeah, I can't eat dairy and I'm getting weird non cancerous brown spots.
I don't know what to I don't know age sucks.
I did read that thirty four is when you like one of the ages where you age the most within the year or something.
What.
Yeah, I don't know.
The year I got married and I think I look like a little spring daisy at my wedding.
You do you had a note? Yeah, you looked great at your wedding. And I loved your dress.
I know you had to pick it up because it was falling off your boobs, but I liked it.
Thank you.
I liked the local, but yeah, Taco Bell is amazing. I was like, I have a Taco Bell bikini. I'm like, nothing will impress me more. I'm like, went on to the Grammys. I don't give a shit.
Was he saying? Was she saying it? Kind of like I don't know, it's sort of like not that cool, but like his music. No, he was.
He was there, Oh and then you were like what Yeah, I like lost it and then everything else he said, like any famous person or cool show or anything.
It's like Taco Bell was ringing. You're like me, Taco Bell, tell me everything.
Yeah.
No, I've been ordering frozen vegan burritos that I keep in the freezer, and that's what I've been doing for my fix because I'm just gonna try not to eat cheese, even though my name is glitter Cheese. I mean, it is a part of my spirit. I mean it is a brand. Yeah, it's tough.
Also so upsetting.
I've been enjoying ink Masters the past few weeks, and I got messages that one of the hosts is a fucking creep black face all this stuff, and fuck, why why are they all bad? Why is everyone bad?
Yeah?
But he was married to Cat Vondee, who also had weird Nazi shit. So I shouldn't have Yeah, yeah, yeah, I should have known.
Red flags abound.
All right, well we have an awesome episode, so should we just get started?
Well?
Yeah, I also okay the episode for him a few weeks ago of SVU, the new one. Did you watch the one where they like he was mummifying people?
Yeah? Do we not talk about this?
We never talked about it because I'm always a little bit behind, But like, that was one of the worst things I've ever seen. It was truly crazy, like and the guy seemed too dumb to get away with those crimes.
Yeah.
I thought that it was really cool how horrific it was. And he had like a kill room, like it was very dexter like all of that, like the full like plastic wrapped kill room, and and then I was just kind of like, oh, it's this jimoke, Like I kind of just wanted it to be like a different ending. But it was very, very freaky, and people were writing us being like is this based on anything? And I got to look it up.
And see, because it's fucking terrifying.
Women being mummified is not real. Please don't be real.
If you think nobody's been mummified, girl, you crazy people been mummified for sure.
Also, thank you for the wreck for my doctors. It's so cool going to American doctors. I don't know if we've talked about this before, but I was raised going to Russian doctors and they're a mess, Like nothing's on time.
You're in the waiting room for hours, you don't know what's up.
Like at my appointment time, I was brought in the back like I couldn't believe it.
Wow, I could not believe it.
It's a nice office, right, but yeah, it was an incredible office. It's just like it felt clean, and they give you a mask. They didn't trust your own mask.
Yeah, all the Cedars places, Yeah, what's up with that?
But why?
Because I think they're like, if we just give everybody one, then we don't have to have arguments with the people that come in with like the fucking gator masks song because those are not like compliant, or people that come in with like a loose ask mask that's falling down. You don't even have to deal with anything. You're just like, here's a new mask. Everyone puts a new mask on, you know. Yeah, it was very respectful.
I liked it. Yeah.
Yeah, I go to your derma ptologists. Now the dentist I go to. Ah, I'm going to all your professions. He's a love I love that dentist.
Good for you.
You don't have to go to an endocrinologist. I had to find my own. Hey, I'm sure someday I will. All right, guys, let's kick off today's episode. We got a good one for you. Okay, So today we are doing the episode Poison, season five, episode twenty four, which makes me think, was this is season finale?
No?
No, it was the second to last Okay, wow, twenty five up season amazing SVU. So I would say this is one of my top favorite episodes.
I probably say that a lot.
But this is a shining, suspenseful, cool moment where the little guys win.
This is one I always remember because it makes me so furious, like I want to kill Tom Scarett in most of this episodes, so I always remember it.
Yeah, yeah, and it's wild.
We're working on this and recently, you know, there was a case of that judge sending all those kids to you know, there's just bad judges out there.
No one stop making people feel important. Power changes your brain.
There's like science and it makes you fucked up, and you know it's not good. That's why teen Stars act like a maniacs. They're just like, power too soon fucks your brain. So we start out it's the episode starts on a child at the hospital. So this isn't good, and we hear like voices off the camera and it's like, oh, what if she survives, blah blah blah. You know, there's chats, there's chats happening. There's a blonde woman in purple holding
a baby and is very very distraught. Olivia with some exposition, says, were you with your niece when she got sick? And the woman goes no, Her brother called Alexis wasn't breathing, so we know that's the baby and he was going nuts and asked to me at the hospital. So we find out this child that's in the hospital, it's Alexis. She was adopted from Romania last year at age three.
And then this woman's brother and wife had twin babies and they were born right after the adoption, and I think there's one more child in the family.
But oh, I was just gonna say this is kind of like a phenomenon that happens all the time when people adopt and then they have a baby. Yes, and this that happened to my one of my best friends. I learned that from Sex in the City was Charlotte.
Oh right, right, right, So I'm glad to confirm that that is correct.
That does happen.
Yeah, Like my friend and her brother are only ten months apart because they adopted her brother and then they got pregnant like right away.
Damn.
Yeah.
Our bodies are wild.
That's why you have to tell yourself nice things and not stress yourself out, because her body's listened to what we tell that.
Okay.
So I was really impressed with this scene because it was like so much exposition and information but in such a natural way. So I just was really impressed because usually it's a little too obvious, but I thought.
They nailed it.
The aunt is right on it and is like they called you because they think she was poisoned. Right, And so we get the title of the episode before the credits even. I mean, of course, this is a top ten episode and Benson has like a Florence Henderson reimagined care if she was hosting what not to wear. That's what I got. I don't know if that makes sense at all. If you think she looks like something else, let us know. So without skipping a beat, she's like,
the sister in law did it. The mom fucking did it. So that's what the ample leaves, and so we have a suspect and an accusation before the credits. Again jam packed this episode.
I just don't understand, like how the aunt ended up bringing in all the children, Like I know, I get, we need her for the exposition. Why does she have all the children at the hospital. So the brother called her and was like, meet me at the hospital. So she came to meet all the kids because there's so many fucking kids everywhere, so I think she came with everybody, but she probably wanted to be there because she knows her sister in law sucks.
Yeah you know what I mean.
Because there is a doctor Michael Baden HBO autopsy episode where someone was writing it and being like I know, oh his wife killed my brother.
Like I know it.
The death certificate said accident. So Michael Baden found evidence and like they were able to put the sister away. So sometimes in your gut, you just kind of know what's going on. Yeah, and you know, siblings merry weird people all the time.
So not my sister.
She'd a great Elan's taking me to the airport tonight, okay and bringing me an edible.
So this is good news. You have a good brother in law for sure. I have good in law brothers and sister in laws too.
Yeah, it's like what if he sucked and was poisoning my nephew, Like fuck, not good. But the aunt's like, listen, this bitch is so cruel to Alexis, never a kind word, never a kiss, her hug. She dotes on the twins and Katie, but she sees this girl as a burden. And Katie is seven and loves Alexis, so hopefully she'll have some scoop for us. So we meet little Katie. Oh wow, she's wearing purple. Interesting. So she's really cute.
She's very cute, blonde, pigtails, and she's about to get kid interrogated by stabler.
Lucky girl.
So she was watching SpongeBob and Alexis was in the corner in the kitchen because she goes there when she's bad, and she has to like count to ten over and over and over again because she rode on the wall with Kram.
So that's where we are.
And then we find out from the girl that she drank the soapy water. The mom gave her a pail to wash the wall, and the mom put the sponge in her mouth, and like Alexis was coughing, and she just kept putting soapy water into her child's mouth. And then Alexis threw up and she wanted to sit down, but the mom wouldn't let her and made her stand, and then the girl fell and couldn't get up, so
this is not good news. The mom and dad they run over and Katie runs into her mom's arms and she has a side part the mom with a low ponytail and a brown sway jacket, some gold hoops, and the guy looks like generic business. If you look up clip art business guy, that's what this guy is. Benson says, we're gonna go down to the station, and the mom's like, we got to get the kids home. And Stabler sexy, sexy, more mad than anyone. If you're not nice to your children,
you get better watch out because Stabler's coming. And he says, if I have anything to do with it. You will never see those kids again. And so she's under the fucking arrests for attempted murder.
Yeah, it's true, Like Maloney's not like a fan of rapists, but if you fucking heard a kid Maloney wants to like he burns through you with his eyes, his beautiful blue eye.
God, just like such a I will always like God.
Our listeners are so horny, and now I'm like, I guess, like mother, like daughter, I'm feeling very horny. So whatever, We get an arrest and the credits begin, so let's get this episode party started. We're back and she's like, listen, I love my daughter and Wendy's hated me.
Don't believe that nonsense.
She's like lucky to say this, and they're like, actually, no, Katie said that. Is Katie a dumbitch too? Or what's up with that? And it's like, no, your daughter ratted you out. We get a defense attorney showing up. Barry Bostwick aka Oliver Gates. Yes, we see him sometimes, but we never really take the time to celebrate him because we hate him, you know, But this motherfucker's been working. He was in Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah, very Bostwick is,
that's impressive. Spin City. He was in one hundred and forty five episodes.
That's cool.
Oh And then in his IMDb, like in the credits it said young guy Christian, but I thought it's a young gay Christian and I was like, okay, but it's not. It's not the show that we wanted. But if you have Barry Boss, you're rich. Okay, you're you can afford his services. The mom gets defensive, of course, and is like, I'm a good mother. I would never do anything like this.
And then we pan to the husband who's being interrogated by Munch and Finn, and he's defending his wife, but it means nothing because he works all day so he doesn't actually see what's going on. But he's like, not, like, if my wife wanted to poison her, why would we then rush her to the hospital. And they're like, we're more worried about your wife, not you, Like we're talking about the wife, and that your sister Wendy says your wife is bad news, and he goes, Wendy's jealous of my wife.
That's like a fact.
And then he slips of the tongue and he goes and my wife loved Alexis And munch Is like, you mean loves loves right, she's not dead or did you want her dead? What's going on here? And so Stabler and Benson joined Novak Huang, and Huang says they pumped out two cups of detergent out of a Lexus's stomach.
Yeah, that's like not a tide pod. That's like a full like two cups. That's a lot of fucking detergent. I understand parenting his heart.
So let's say you something happens, you crack and you put the soap in the kid's mouth. That's a second. That's two seconds, maybe ten seconds. That's not ten cups or two cups? Two cups? Two cups? Yeah, I like how exaggerated. Immediately you made it worse. So they get into like a little minor moment of like is this kid even reliable? You know, I've been doing this longer than you. A kid in court is hard, Like what's
gonna happen? And Huang's like, you know what, I'll talk to the kid and I'll see if she knows the difference between a lie and a truth. And I always love the little games they play with the children. So Kwang's like, what color is this? And she says purple. So they're coloring and talking about lies, truths, promises. She has two braids, and you know, she knows all these things they're doing some church talks.
God, what's happening?
Like, So Huang's on this, and I think the kid knows the difference between a lie and a truth. So that we meet the judge that's gonna be in this case. So it's Boss Wick Novak, and it's Judge Oliver Test aka Tom Scarett, a person working for decades, decades.
You know, he's Shelby's father and Steel Magnolias if you're a fan, and.
I've always loved him.
I've never seen Steel Magnolia's but Candy Lawrence used to have a joke where she'd put, like, start drinking beer a liquid and then shake her mouth and go.
Drink your juice, Shelby, drink your juice.
All the liquids would go everywhere, and I loved the joke.
I don't even know what the joke was, but she was spit liquids and I loved it. Drinking juice shit, juice is batter. Oh, I love that movie so much, you gotta watch it. It's like filled with icons like blush and yeah blush and bashed my colors a blush, I'm bashful. Yeah, how much do I know from just a candy joke? Which is amazing.
So the lawyers are debating with Judge Scarett, and they're like debating if the kid is credible. Okay, Judge Taft, I'm gonna go back from Taft to scare It.
Both are really fun names to say.
President Taft's the one that was too big for the bathtub and broke the tub.
Is that him?
Maybe Hannah's Yeah, if I know one president fact, it's the guy who has broke a bathtub.
Okay.
So Judge Taft goes, listen, my court, my rules, get the little kid in here, and I'm gonna figure out what's up. Okay, I'm gonna decide if she's competent or not from my fucking courtroom because it's my courtroom and not yours. But also it's like it's not yours either, or you're borrowing it from the city, my thing, my tax dollars, Like that court is more my court than your fucking court. And he also lets Casey knows she better be dressed appropriate tomorrow and what that means is
in a skirt by nine am. And that fucking sucks. That's annoying. Someone told me to wear a skirt. I mean, I like wearing skirts. I don't know why I'm acting like this.
But I don't. I don't want to be told to do it. No, it's like no.
And so you know, we're getting a picture started out.
It's his courtroom. You wear a dress.
You know.
He's a piece of shit.
So he starts questioning the little girl and he's not giving her a chance, like he wants her to be thrown off the case. It is really fucked up. He's asking super confusing questions. It's like he's trying to trip her up and it really sucks. And I don't know why he's so against her. I think he's just a piece of shit. And like I said, power dilutes the brain. I've said this time and time again, but like there's studies and power makes your brain rotten. So he's talking
about right hands, left hands, bibles. She's about to cry. She runs away from him as fast as she can, and Novak's like, I'm sorry to be fair. I was confused by those questions, and he goes, I wouldn't go around telling people that, and I do love that interaction. So now there's a meeting and there's going back and forth about the kid's testimony and if the cops course them, and it's just like very.
Annoying because we know what's going on.
And so we are now on a hearing with Stabler on the stand in front of Judge Scarett, and Novak's like, did you force the kid to say anything about the mom and the soap and the throat and anything? And he goes, no, she brought it up on her own. I expressed no opinions. And that's true. We all saw it. We saw it. Okay, they're also taping the little kid interactions. They're not just letting a cop and a child interact
in that room. There's video footage. No one fucking forced anything out of anybody.
But also she talked to Huang too, So that's like two people.
I don't know why they never bring that up that she talked to Huang also, who's like a certified psychiatrist.
Broughte the fucking FBI.
Yeah, and it's like, you're a product of the government. Scaret so like, if you want respect, why wouldn't you're to other people working within the like the government.
I don't know, it's just I mean we'll find out, obviously.
So back and forth conversation, it's all going fine, and then the defense is like, didn't you tell her that she would never see her kids again if you had anything to do with it? And Novak's like, okay, this again, Stabler, are you fucking kidding me? And Stabler's like, that's out of context, but it wasn't. So basically, there's just like a lot of situations. But Stabler didn't hate the mom First he got the story from the kid and then formed his opinion. So you know, there's a stunt happening.
So Stabler goes, listen, I know how to conduct an interview. I don't need this judgment. And I had a moment recently with like a younger but more successful monetarily, like this kid's selling out. But it's like, you've done you know, you haven't done comedy a long time, and there's a difference between selling tickets and having a craft that you've honed for over a decade.
But I was talking about how.
Someone was annoying me and being rude, And this young comedian says, I mean, don't you think they could have just been joking? And the way I looked at him, I go, I think I could tell the difference between a joke and not, don't you think? And and he uh, I think I think he realized what he did.
And oh god, if you all could see Lisa's face right now, you would not want to be on the receiving end of that comment.
Oh my god.
I was like, bro, I could tell if someone's being a kidding. Yeah, but it was a it was a fun moment. Obviously, tensions are high in the courtroom. Stabler has been disrespected, his words are being switched around. This woman is poisoning her child. The judge is telling Casey to wear a skirt. What the fuck's about to happen? So as Stabler walks out of the courtroom, he gets what's up and under his breath he goes, this is a joke, and the judge goes, what the fuck did
you say? And Stabler Louder goes, it's a fucking joke, and scare It's like, nobody cares what you think. And Stabler's like fuck you. Obviously not all these fucks. All these fucks are Liza's. Yeah, and Stabler goes, you think I bullied a seven year old girl? Like that's what you And then you know they're fighting and uh and it's like that's what you did, Judge, Like you did what you're accusing maloney of. That's why you're so suspicious.
You fucking bullied this child. Stabler wouldn't do that. So Sailor gets put in contempt and Elliott is off to a cell and he smiles like, oh my god, and Novak looks very, very angry, but she bails his ass out of the cell, and they have a back and forth about ego like I meant, you know, sometimes sometimes you feel threatened and outbursts and loyalty and YadA YadA.
And then we have Marlo Thomas.
Hello, I've been to some misfoundation events with her. I'm sure she does not remember. Okay, so what is her job in this episode? So she's actually the one that bailed Elliott out and was able to drop the contempt charge. She has judged Mary Clark and she's been in four episodes of SVU. She tells Elliott stop acting like a and tells Novak play the game with this judge and do your job. Novak says he's an arrogant prick and hates young attorneys, and Marla's like, okay, we'll pick your battles,
all right. Winning a trial is more important than wearing a skirt. And they have a nice relationship because Novak clerked for her and that's so that's how they all know each other. So we jumped to court. Do you have any mentors? Mentors?
Well? Really, okay, well all right do you?
I guess David Tel But yeah, I don't know if I don't know if he wants to be my mentor, but I forced myself upon him.
But yeah, I don't know.
I think I have hero people I look up to, but I don't know if anyone's take it like a mentor. But I just watched the Seinfeld Mentor and unfortunately one of our friends I saw online her mentor recently died, and I was like, do I need to get a mentor?
But yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I just never I mean, yeah, definitely have people I look up to and I ask for advice, but I can't think of any of them right now.
I don't know, yeh, but you know, Judge Mary Clark is a good mentor to have. But is our queen, what's our queen's name, Judith Light?
Do you think she's jealous? Do you think Judith's Light like I'm your fucking mentor. She seems more like Stephanie Marsh's mentor. She's like a cabint mentor. Okay, and then Novak Scott Marlowe, this is god, I.
Love this show.
Okay, So we jumped to court. It's April nineteenth, which is my sister's birthday, so that's exciting. And the Oklahoma bombing if you're you know, into that a big day for many people, go on, well, now it sucked because Oklahoma bombing is on my sister's birthday. And then Princess Dana died on my birthday and I was like, why are we so cursed?
Oh my god.
Yeah, So now we have some court games again. Basically, the defense is like, we want to waive a jury trial and just have the judge decide, and Novak's like, no, because there's an advantage with your perceived favor, and of course he gets offended. He goes, no, there's more risk to the defendant to wave the jury usually you know what I mean, Like it's one guy's opinion. So if Mama Murder is down for the risk, I'm down and
everyone's down, so no jury selection, go fuck yourself. And so Novak's upset obviously, and scare and her make eye contact and they are their enemies. So she says, the people request that he recuse himself from the trial on the grounds of there's a clear bias in this case. And the next scene is a masterclass in acting Diane Neil and Scarett, just like Murder the scene. Judges are trained to examine their biases, and I've decided that I can judge this case. And he is satisfied that he
is partial. So your request is denied and we'll see you in the morning for trial. So he gets to decide if he's biased or not in this case, which doesn't make sense. But Judge Mary Clark and Novak meet outside in a very New York fun moment that makes me, of course wistful, and Marlowe like, you asked an egomaniac to recuse himself. What's wrong with you? She says that him saying that we are reaching with the attempted murder charge as fuck.
She's like, what the hell is that? So that's true.
There is a bias. If you're like are you sure about that charge? You already have an opinion that it's too strict. So marlow says, maybe it's a tactic. Maybe not, but she goes, listen, this is a judge of been a. You know what's up. He's just trying to plead this case out, lower the charge, make his life easier. He's just thinking about himself, like relax. It has nothing to do with like the specificity of the case. It's just like that, you know, he's trying to get a day off,
trying to get a summer friday. So Novak wants to take this further and Marlowe is like, okay, you want to publicly humiliate him.
Have fun.
So Novak meets Stabler in a sunlit, busy hallway and is like, fuck this noise, let's plead her out, and he goes, no, no, no, no, look what I found. She tried to give Alexis back. So six months after adopting Alexis, she tried to give her back. And she's like, let's see him try to throw this out, you know, like, this is definitely a challenge, and it shows that this woman did not want to be a mother of this child.
And it's only now been twenty four hours. What a busy, busy day do these people in that nap Are they sleeping five hours a day?
Are they eating?
Like?
Are they taking care of themselves?
It is only fos, but it is four twenty, So if you are a partaker in drugs, you know, hit a bowl and that's exciting. Hit the vapepen, suck on that bong. It's four twenty. In court, all right, mom is on trial and she's saying how she's like overwhelmed with all these kids and she's embarrassed. She tried to give her back, but she thought she could have a better life with someone else. She says, I'm sorry I
couldn't keep my eye on her. I do love her, and I'm sorry she was acting kind of weird after the detergent, but she had a stomach bug, so I thought the puke was just part of that. And then it's like, but didn't your daughter turn blue? Like this girl passed out and turned blue, And the mom still waited for the husband to go to the hospital, and for me, if knock on wood I was with any loose child who turned blue and passed out, I wouldn't
wait for anybody. I would start doing chess compressions and calling nine one one, like I don't understand what's going on. I mean, I'm first aid certified. Maybe not everyone should do chess compressions, but it's just weird. So Novak stands up ready for war. She's on a mission, and this is the sexiest we've seen Novak. Okay, She's like, wait, so you said Alexis was fine all day, while a doctor from the hospital said that she was in excruciating.
Pain for hours.
And Novak brings up another good point and is like, if you knew that she had ingested cleaning solution, why not take her to the hospital right away? Clearly, I think it's a good point. I made it earlier, and it's like better safe than sorry.
What are you doing?
And Novak's like, were you just scared they were gonna be able to tell that you were abusing your daughter? And then there's a sustained objection and no vectin not like that, and Scaret says, listen, this is obviously an accident.
And this is sad.
But come on, guys, relax, no big deal, even though there'll be permanent damage to your daughter. He says, I know you love your daughter. I believe you didn't force her to drink poison. This is a tragedy and not guilty on all charges. And Stabler is like what And the mom and dad kiss on the lips for a really long time.
It is a weird, like French kiss for you just got acquitted for murdering attempted murder on our daughter.
Oh god, it's like, we want more fucking in the show, but not like this, not like this.
So it's weird because it's like it's kind of feels this like the only reason Scaret that, I'm sorry, Judge Taft likes this couple is just because they're like a nice, white young couple that seem proper right, Like he doesn't have any other reason to be like biased towards them. It's like, you know that if this family was like poor, or this was a single mom with like a sexual history, or like this was a black family like she, he would totally not be ruling this way.
Well we'll see, Kara, won't we Oh, I guess we won't.
Uh novakan stable and then it's also like, I wonder if he was going extra hard just to fuck with Novak too, Like he's annoyed with Novak at this point.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So Novak and Stabler meet up outside and Novak reveals she wants him off the bench and she's going after him, and she goes, if this is justice, I don't want this career love her. So Marlow is like in a very high fancy building and an incredibly body hugging skirts suit, and she you know, she needs a favor. Novak's been going through all of his decisions in the past ten years and they suck, and Marlow's like, this is a
waste of time. And then Novak go's, no, look, there was another child poison case and that kind of piques Marlow's interest and she's like, okay, fine, let me see it.
So basically this the case involves Silvo. So this person Silvo, takes the daughter to the hospital and then gets arrested for poisoning with anti freeze and waives a jury trial, but taff disallows an expert witnessed that would say that the daughter is a genetic disorder disease, not poison, and then the lawyers requested a recusal and that didn't work, and now Silvo is doing twenty five two life very similar cases. So it's like, come on, help me, help
me get this commissioner judge investigation guy. And Marlow's like, if you bring me proof and he did something wrong, I'll be your ride or die. Okay, I will go. I will do this with you if you give me the evidence that I need. So now Casey's doing a walk and talk with the lawyer from the case of this poisoning that happened, and she was looking and he's like,
I quit criminal law because of him. He wrongfully convicted my client and I hated that motherfucker, and he like ruined my life and I couldn't get a job anywhere. And he's like, I found this expert that believed that the anti freeze thing was wrong and it was a disease, but he needed to have a test done, and since he was a court appointed attorney, the judge in the case, who happened to be taffed, got to approve funding, and
he denied it and said it was junk science. So Noveach goes, oh, well, now he's a crusader for mothers. And he goes, oh, let me guess carry, you were right rich June Cleaver type with a husband in the picture, and so he has a class bias, and like, what a good mother is?
I missed this whole part. I missed the whole part. I didn't mean to, like, yeah, I just missed him saying this. I must have like gotten a glass of water. I just missed that part. I saw this talk with the lawyer, but I missed the June Cleaver part and all that.
Oh yeah, so you were right. Well, no, so you were on it.
So he goes, yeah, there was a class bias, the good mother thing. You know, we find out this former mother was like poor as fuck, uneducated. No Dad and Scaret thought she was a slut and didn't hide it. And it also aligns with his ideas of like wanting a woman to wear skirts to court. We talked about this, like the Virgin Madonna, like you want a woman to be how you think a woman is, and if you do not fit my interpretation of what a good woman is, you suck and you belong in jail. So that's that.
And he tried to recuse Scaret badmouth to him all over town, so he hasn't been able to work. And Novak's great, we have the same enemy, file the paperwork for me and let's get this guy down.
And this man's like, lol, no way, thanks, thank you, not interested.
So then he brings up a really good point and he goes, instead of fucking around with Taft, why don't you try to get Rosalin Silvo out of jail? Go get that bitch, like, help her. So I do like where this guy's coming from. Where it's like, instead of playing these games, your ego games, because Novak's having an ego about this too, And instead of like going and getting this judge off the bench, why don't we get Rosalin Silvo, who's been wrongfully convicted out of jail.
So we start to focus on that.
So back at the precinct, Benson's telling the crew about the Rosalin Silvo case. Basically, in nineteen ninety three, she showed up in the er with her one year old daughter, Christine. The baby was vomiting and couldn't breathe, and found there were found high levels of this chemical that's in anti freeze, and the baby died and she was arrested. She was also pregnant during this and she had to have her baby in jail and the baby is still in foster care.
Also a twist, there was no anti freeze ever found in her home, so at the emmy confirmed what the hospital said, and Craigan is like, no one looked into this genetic disease, Like what is going on? And Novak says that there was some cousin in the family who allegedly had died of this disease, but Taft would not let the evidence in, so they couldn't find the dad, and they couldn't do the tests, and they couldn't do all this. So it's like, let's go, let's go, let's go.
Lots of work to do, team, so they have to work. So now we're Hudson University, our favorite rape college and.
Rape college, our number.
One place to get assaulted in New York's what I have time out? Did that the pap ten universities to get groped at?
Okay? So okay.
So now it's the twenty first of April when they go to Hudson, So it's only been three days. So all of this has happened in three days really fast. So this doctor at Hudson says, maybe this baby could have had MMA. It's when you're body lacks an enzyme something with protein. And I watched this scene three times and I have no clue what they were saying.
So I'm going to talk about it later anymore perfect.
So the lab found ethylene glycomb and basically it's something that's used in anti freezing photography. But MMA is this disease and it produces this enzyme, so old tests might think it's anti freeze. But there's technology now that can tell the difference between the disease and a poisoning. And so we go to the prison to meet the mom behind the bars, and it's Becky from Roseanne the og one Alicia Gorenson, an icon, a queen, and a legend.
Do you have a thought original Becky? I was just excited to see her.
I was like, original Becky, Yeah, yeah.
And she wildly in Sex and the City, played like a surrogate who is gonna give Charlotte and Harry a baby? But then changed her mind and they were like, well why did you go along with this meeting and the like?
We had just never been.
To New York and so she plays like a poor mother very well, I guess because in Sex and the City and SVU playing poor mothers, that's pretty fun. And I think, did she have a child in Roseanne two?
I think so, yeah.
I don't remember whether it's her or new Becky gets a kid, but Becky has a kid, I feel like.
But then old Becky came back. It was like really wild, you know, like, isn't old Becky on the Conners right now? Yeah?
I knew Becky was on Scrubs, so she made her multimilli so she doesn't have to be working. I mean, I'm sure everyone likes Sorek. It's their passion, but they're all all the Becky's are doing good. And Darley no big deal. I did get to audition in front of the actress who played to Darleyan recently during the Pandemic on Zoom.
But Sarah Gilbert Sarah Gilbert an additional icon, I mean, the only female member of the Pussy Posse. Yeah, you love that, huge, huge, you bring that.
Up a lot. I love bringing that up. So whatever, Becky's here, we get it.
And she's in jail and she's like, I've just been waiting for somebody to figure this out. But she's like it's like she found some really good books and religion or something in jail.
She's like chill as fuck.
But they say, okay, slow down, and so they have some discussions. She mentions, you know, her ten year old daughter who's out, and you know she misses, she misses her kids. She like wants to be a mother. She is actually a good mother. And this is why biases, and even if it's unchecked, biases fuck up lives so much. So anyways, the kid used to visit her daughter, Diana, but she's like, this isn't no place for a kid.
I didn't want her to visit me that often. So that's like a caring mother who doesn't want like a kid to show up to jail. So Rosalind said, like, Christine must have died from the disease because she's dead and I don't know, like maybe I wasn't paying attention. And so she's not defensive. She's like open to the idea that she might have killed her kid, but she
knows she didn't point and her kid. So she's like everyone was really nice to me until the test came back and then it was all about anti freeze and poisoning, and I was like, wait what, I didn't do this to my baby, and they're like they arrested me and they were taking my mugshots as my daughter died.
And it was a whirlwind.
So Stabler asked permission to exhume the body to find proof to get her out of jail, and she cries and thinks about her sweet baby, but she's like, yeah, go test the baby.
So we got lucky.
Melinda Warner is on the case and she found the goods and the baby for sure had mma and there's lots of science and what's great is I was a little distracted, like Melinda did keep talking about more science and all the proof, but there was just like a little baby covered in a restaurant napkin cloth and it was just weird thinking. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't a real baby, but I just didn't like the little
the little dead baby. Okay, yeah, great prop work, I would say, a great Halloween decoration.
I did not love it.
So yeah, so the baby, uh, the exhumed by there's some crystals in her head and it's consistent with anti freeze poisoning, but it's not. And the hospital treated the baby with an ethanol drip, which is the right thing to do for anti freeze poisoning, but it is the wrong thing to do with someone with MMA and so and made the crystals appear in the brain and that's why all this happens. So Novak is waiting outside for
Marlow to come out. So Marlow's like, oh great, Casey Novak again, and Casey's like, no, it's the judge's fault. Rosalin is innocent and we need to get Judge Scarett off the fucking bench. And Marlowe calls him a what because it's.
Scare It just like Judge Scarett.
Marlowe calls him a son of a bitch and an embarrassment to the bench, and then she agrees to defend Rosalin in court. So Marlow's like, I gotta file emotion and Casey takes out the thickest stack of papers I've ever seen and says, I already did it for you, And it's like, okay, are you on addro It's a full QD report, Like it's so thick, and this is only not what is a four days So we're four days deep and she has a whole one hundred and forty page document.
Ready, I thought the same thing.
They need to do a cocaine episode so we find out how everyone is getting their work done.
Oh god, I'm like, the squad has the same dealer. They all use the same guy.
Yeah, well, no, I don't think. I don't think they would partake in drugs. I don't.
Maybe ice sometimes while he's like, I bet Icy snedabol while he like plays video games, but I don't see. Yeah, Craigan's sober. I don't know. Yeah, all right, what do you guys think? Let us know what drugs do you think?
Let us know how much coke you guys think Stabler and Benson are doing on the regular. Let us know who he thinks doing the most amount of drugs. Marlow's outfit in court is incredible.
It's black with white small stripes going down the shoulders and a gold necklace with like pearls.
Spaced out in it.
It's a she's rich, she's rich. So Scaret walks into the courtroom just like like he's coming to watch. He's not on the bench or anything for this case. It's actually honorable Louis. I never know how to say her name.
Loy S Louise Lois Lois Lowe's press.
It's like Raleigh Rally.
It's like, fucking yeah, bet Air Oh, and so Honorable Judge Lewis Preston. She's the curly haired, redheaded woman and she's like Lois Lois Lois, Honorable Judge Lois Preston. She has red, curly hair, and she goes, great news, let's free this woman. And she hugs the daughter and everything's good. I mean this, this courtroom happened fast.
Baby.
Basically, Becky's free. She gets to hug her daughter and she gets to live her fucking life. Thank god for s V and Diane Neil. So Scaret comes to be a bitch to the women, and the women are stern and calm because they know they have all the goods and they're right, and you know, it's like Byero. So there's a sexy stare down that occurs, and then there's a cell phone ring, and that to me is never a good anytime my cell phone rings, I'm like, oh god,
they just never let anyone celebrate for too long. So Novaka arrives to a crime scene and it's Alexis and she's dead and Karen, the mother was the only person home, so she basically took her child home from the hospital and killed her at home, so awful. Stabler is with her and is.
Like, what did you do? Did you, miss us? You didn't have to kill her. You had the perfect out.
You could have put her in a nursing home forever and never have to think about her again.
Why would you decline that to take her home and murder her?
Cycle paths. So Stabler is like, I'm just trying to understand. What the fuck? What the fuck? And the defense attorney is like, I'm sorry, the kid had issues in brain damage, Like the kid died on her own. You can't charge her for the same crime twice. And Benson walks in and goes, no, no, no, no, no no, it's two separate acts.
And so she has the groundbreaking evidence that we need and it's basically that Alexis was suffocated, so poisoning had nothing to do with her death, so that there is no double jeopardy at play, and we can charge this bitch for murder. And I love when a defense attorney knows that they're fucked, Like, I do really enjoy that when they make a face of like, oh, okay, so we need to make a deal quick.
So that's what's happening.
So the murder mom, Karen is like crying but she's saying nothing, and Stabler's like, what, you have nothing to say? And she musters out that she didn't want to bring her home but her husband insisted and she wouldn't stop crying and I just wanted her to be quiet. So Stabler's like, yeah, so you killed her, and then she drops a bomb and goes, it's not my fault. The judge said I should do it. It was his idea.
I didn't want to do it. So Judge Taft said Alexis was too sick and that she has other kids to think about, and we'd all be better off if Alexis just died. And he said this right before court before she testified, so obviously he's breaking tons of court rules. He told this woman to murder her child. But on top of all this, he's been a judge for decades.
So and this is what I think about with race and gender and all everything clntant where it's like, you know, it is everywhere, because it's all these people that have real jobs that have real affects some people, and there's just like bad people as judges, teachers, cops, you know, working at the couch store.
You know, everywhere furniture.
I don't know if there's just a couch store, but general convertibles. I know there's mattress stores all right. So Craigan is like, wait, did I hear what I think I heard? That nutcase thinks the judge told her to do it, And Benson's like, maybe it's a way to get off. But Stabler's like, why are you take talking alone with a defendant anyways?
Like what's going on? And we need to get to the bottom of it.
So X party. I love the term ex partey. I love that term.
Could we use it in regular life or is it only legal?
I think it's only legal, Like we I mean, you know, I like, I guess you could be like maybe next time we want to talk about Rosie, we'll just be like, let's go talk.
We have an ex Partei conversation over here. I don't need for hearing the.
We'll go in a breakout room without Hannah and be like ex Parte.
On zoom.
So Novacs like we got to get the bastard and right on time.
An SBU magic.
You know, Oliver comes out, Oliver taft mister Scarrett and he goes listen.
I had no knowledge of this.
If I knew that she had any intention of killing anybody, as an officer of the court, I would obviously say something. I was just trying to comfort this crying, hysterical woman, and I just told her, like, hey, maybe you should see a shrink. And that's like ding ding ding ding ding ning ning novacs like, excuse me.
You told her to get psychiatric help, book her and go get taffed on criminal facilitation too.
He told her to get help, which means he knew the poisoning was no accident and she could try it again with one of the other kids. And so wow, acquitting her gave her the means to do it. So him letting her go home gave her the opportunity to kill a child. And he knew she was unwell and that is why he offered. And he suggested that she should go to a shrink. So now another favorite SVU trope. They're at a fancy party and they're gonna arrest the judge at a black type party in.
His own home, in his home.
So Stabler grabs an appetizer and it's a Philo dough looking stuffed thing that looks delicious.
I love you know, I love God.
Is that gonna be a round post COVID or we gonna be able to snack on trays or what? I know?
They're better be cannapas after COVID. I need them.
So, you know, he's at the party and he's like, listen, get out of my house. And Stabler goes, honey, Alexis is dead and you knew Karen was a danger and you let her go. And the judge says, this is absurd, and Stabler says, you know, we can't arrest you in your own home, so why don't you just go outside and not make a scene. And he does know the loss, so he leaves and Stabler goes, you're gonna look real pretty for your mugshots, sweetie, because he's in a suit.
Wait, why can't they arrest him in his own home? You know that's a rule that you have to step out, yeah, or if you have like a paid yeah, you have to be outside to be arrested. That's what I remember in the episode Damaged. You know they trick him out, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just yeah, I think I thought they had a warrant.
Well, or unless they invite you in, but no one invited Stabler in. But you're right, why wouldn't they have a warrant they he did do it wrongdoing.
I think they just just the threat of making the scene they knew would be enough to get him to come with them.
So now we're in court and it's Taft versus Novak pay per view fight. So the judge on the bench is like kind of a he's on top side, and he goes, you're making a mockery of the court, and I'm throwing this out, and Taft looks really satisfied. So charges are dismissed and the judge scolds Casey and puts her in her place. So she lost this battle, but not the overall journey.
What is the thing? The war? The war? Yeah, so we're gonna keep going.
So charge is dismissed and the judge is like pissed Casey for like, you know, going against the courts rules. But Marlo Thomas comes in with some good news and says, hey, girl, at least now we have a great witness for Karen's murder trial.
So we'll get justice at the trial.
So going head to head with the judge didn't work, but now they can use him as a witness and hopefully manipulate the situation to uncover all the truths at Karen's murder trial. Of her trild that she's strangled to death JK suffocated with a pillow.
Same difference.
Okay, So we cut to Novak and she's questioning Taft, who's on the stand for Karen's murder trial, and Taft is going down. He admits to having this combo. He says, sorry, I let my empathy rule over my intellect. We were on an elevator, she was crying and upset at her daughter's condition, and I ruled she was innocent because you didn't provide the right amount of evidence to my liking lady, and your skirt wasn't cue JK. He did not say that. And so Stabler's in the crowd and he's watching this
all go down. He's eating popcorn. He's in it, and it's like, hold up, did you ever think that maybe Karen was responsible for the crime and the daughter's condition? And he's like that's irrelevant. She's like, no, it's not. We have to know your frame of mind when talking to this crying woman. And the judge on the bench allows this question, which makes Taft upset, and Casey's like, you felt sorry for her before the trial was done, so you had opinions about her before all the evidence
was out. Just admit it, dude, you've gotten got like you're done. Yeah, And finally he's like, it was a mistake. It's so good. Is that what you want me to say? That was a mistake And it's like, yes, that's what we've been wanting. We've honestly, we didn't have to go to court if you just admitted you were wrong, and he goes, what one mistake? I've been on the bench for three decades and she goes, one mistake?
Are you kidding me? What about your girl? Rosalind?
And Casey is hammering him hard and Taft to standing up and trying to object or stop it, but it's like, you have no standing here. You're in a little box in your witness answer the questions. He's losing it and it's like, why talk to her? Why talk to a woman who murdered her baby? And he says, I didn't know, and she goes didn't know what and he yells, I thought they were good people, and the gavel hits and
they stare each other down and it's incredible. Give this man an Emmy and he makes a face that is like the whole world is crashing down around him and he knows it, and he knows he deserves it. And they find the defendant guilty. Go to jail, you child, murderer. And Scaret stands up really slowly from the audience section, so so slowly, and he's hounded by press and the press is chasing him down, and we find out he's been demoted down to civil court, not fire just but
demoted down to civil court. And Stabler and Novak stand very smug as Scaret walks briskly through the paparazzi.
Oo.
You love to see it.
You just love to see an old white man get his fucking ask.
It's so satisfying.
Yeah, it's like cosplay, porn erotica.
It's like perfect television.
Because you think it's over when that other judge is like, this is a mockery. You're free to go scare it like you know, you'd think it's over and it ain't over.
And now I'm scared, Like, is the true crime baby killing?
Is a judge killing?
Is it?
All of it is?
You know? Like yeah, ah, well, as soon as we sell you a couple things, you're gonna find out. Okay, this case is foot Well, first of all, I want to say, I'm surprised you didn't touch on it, Lisa, but Novak's hair is wild in this episode. It's like red with blonde highlights. Like it's so there's like patchy blonde highlights in the red. It's really crazy. So I don't know if you noticed, but I didn't.
I was too distracted by her fierceness.
But it was in one scene outside maybe it was the natural light which was talking to the lawyer from the Rosalind case. I was like, what's going on with this hair here, girl? But they were obviously in between transition her over to full blonde, which comes later. But this case that this episode is based on is truly wild and it's a lot of similarities. So let me
just get right into it. Basically, this is about Patricia Patti Stallings, who in nineteen eighty six was working at a seven to eleven in Saint Louis, Missouri, when she met David Stallings, a plate engraver. They got married in nineteen eighty eight, and in nineteen eighty nine they had a son named Ryan. Now Ryan, he wasn't very well. He couldn't hold down formula, and what I read was that he soon began vomiting once a week.
And I'm like, once a week.
My child was vomiting once a day, if not twice, and I was not taking him to a doctor. I was just told that that was normal. So anyway, I was getting turbo barfed on every day. So I don't know what this once a week shit is, but basically they said, we kind of got used to it. He looked very normal. So then on July seventh, when Ryan was three months old. This is July seventh of nineteen eighty nine. Ryan is three months old. Patty finds him
in his crib, staring at the ceiling, heavy breathing. His lips are shut tight, it says, so he's something's up.
He's struggling.
So she brings him panicked to Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital, where he's put on a respirator for three days. Patty and David are like waiting and the doctors are trying to figure out what's going on, and then a lot of like what happened in Rosalind's case, because really this
case is based on what happened to Roslin. After the three days, the detectives start questioning them like, well, what's up with you guys, and asking them a bunch of pointed questions, and that's when they realize that they're suspects in this crime. Because doctors had found ethylene glycol, which is an active ingredient in antifreeze, the same thing they
found in Rosalin's baby Christine. They had found that in Ryan's blood, and the police were sure that the Stallings had poisoned Ryan with antifreeze, so they questioned them super aggressively.
They even tried to turn them against each other, like they told David that Patty had failed her lie detector test, which was not true, to make him try to doubt his wife, like what like he said, He even for a second was like, wait a minute, she did, and then he was like, never mind, this is she did not hurt our child.
But also everyone should know lie detector tests.
Are not reliable by now, But I don't know, maybe in the eighties people thought they were more real anyway. After twelve days in the hospital, the Missouri Division of Family Services took custody of Ryan and placed him in a foster home. So now David and Patty can only see their son Ryan for one hour a week while supervised by a social worker, and they're not allowed to
bring him anything to eat, nothing edible. So this goes on for all of July and August, and then during a visit on August thirty first, my Birthdatty was oh, happy birthday, Lisa, August thirty first of eighty nine, So
you were just a tiny bibit. And they briefly leave Ryan alone with Patty, and she does give him a bottle of formula that was prepared by the foster mother, and with others present, she fed him the bottle like I guess, it's written both places that she was briefly left alone, but then all people were there when she
gave him the bottle. Four days later, Ryan was again hospitalized in critical condition at Cardinal Glennon and they thought that she poisoned him during this tiny supervised visit, and so she was arrested and jailed on a charge of assault, leaving David alone to keep the vigil at Ryan's bedside. On September seventh, a week later, after being baptized and given his last rites, Ryan died in his father's arms while his mother was in jail, and Patty was then charged with first degree murder.
Crazy the timing with his bottle is fucked.
Yeah, yeah, So while she was waiting for her trial for three months, she found out that she was pregnant again, much like Rosalind Silvo. She was pregnant when she went into jail, so now she finds out she's, you know,
three or four months pregnant. Her son, DJ was born in February of nineteen ninety, a month premature, and was immediately put into a foster home, and within two weeks it was discovered that DJ had been rushed to the hospital with you guessed it, vomiting, heavy breathing, etc. And he was diagnosed with methyl malonic acidemia MMA, which is a rare genetic disorder in which the body does not
break down proteins properly. The Stallings thought Ryan must have had the same disease, and so did their attorney, Eric Rathbone. But during her three day trial, which happened in nineteen ninety one, after they already know that DJ has this mma. The similarity between Ryan and DJ's illnesses were never introduced into court because Rathbone failed to secure an expert medical witness what I don't know why. Later it was ruled that she received inadequate counsel, So I guess that was
a later thing that happened. At the time, it was like that was never introduced. The prosecutor was this guy named George McElroy. He had police and social workers all testified that Patty didn't show emotion when she found out Ryan was dead, which is a thing they always use against women. You know how, I went to college with this girl whose husband disappeared on their honeymoon and cruise he was killed. I did this as my hometown murder
on my favorite murder like episode, like fifteen or something. Literally, this girl got dragged through the mud because she wasn't running around rigging her hands and crying to the sky, like I think. People deal with trauma in different ways, and you don't have to like be having in a full breakdown mode to be innocent of a crime, and like that, women get that a lot, not being not being the perfect victim not acting the correct way.
And we learned this with the Colleens standcase, where it's like, if you're too hysterical.
With the police, they might not believe you.
But then if you're too composed, you're not emotional enough and they don't believe you.
So it's like there's no winning. Yeah, So it's like God.
So anyway, poor Patty gets testified against by police and social workers that she wasn't, you know, sad enough when she found out her son had died, probably because she.
Was like, what the fuck is happening? I didn't do anything.
Investigators produced one bottle of anti freeze from the stallin home as evidence, whereas I feel like every home in America has a bottle of into fries in it, so that that doesn't seem like evidence to me. But McElroy said nothing could explain the ethylene gly call found in Ryan. It took the jury only ten hours to find Patty guilty of first jgree murder and she was sentenced to life without parole.
So then.
The chairman of biochemistry at Saint Louis University, his name is William sly cool name, sees this case on unsolved motherfucking mysteries. That is how he finds out about this, and he sees it and goes, this kid had MMA. Probably he suspected Ryan might have had MMA, just like his brother, and he contacts James Shoemaker, who is the
director of the same university's metabolic screening lab. After testing frozen samples of Ryan's blood serum, Shoemaker found evidence that Ryan did have MMA, and original lab reports finding lethal concentrations of ethylene gly call in Ryan's blood were incorrect and based on faulty data. So they told their findings to McElroy, who asked them to find an expert in MMA.
So they go and they find doctor Piero Ronaldo, an assistant professor of genetics at Yale, who studied this case for six weeks and his own tests discovered that Ryan died of MMA and that the scientific findings used to convict Patty were grossly inaccurate. Ronaldo said, technically speaking, I've never seen such lousy work. It was a classic case of misdiagnosis. So after doctor Rinaldo gave McElroy a determination, McElroy in a move which is actually wild, I feel
like evil prosecutors are all over the place. He actually asked the county Circuit judge to dismiss the murder charge. So after serving fourteen months in prison, Patty is released, which in the show it's ten years, so thankfully in
real life it was only fourteen months. But Patty was released in July of nineteen ninety one pending a new trial, and two months later in September, they completely dropped the case against her and apologize, they said, quote McElroy said, we can't undo the suffering the Stallings have endured during this ordeal, and I apologize. I hope their lives will be happier and fuller in the future.
Fucked up.
Stallings said that she lost a lot of weight due to the stress of being imprisoned, but that her Buddhist faith helped her to keep strong during that time. She sued the hospital and laboratories that were involved in Ryan's care and reached an out of court settlement which I read with several million dollars and extremely graceful. Much like you were pointing out about Becky in the episode, like she was very chill. She wasn't like super pissed or anything.
This woman said, I have never really been angry, I am more damaged. So the Stallings were reunited with DJ, and given his MMA, colds and flus could be really life threatening to DJ. So they had to really carefully like live with DJ. And they said, we're moving cautiously forward. We don't want to make plans. Life is too short,
and Patty later said, I thought this was interesting. Patty later said that she thought her case might have been influenced by the case of Paula Simms, who was a woman convicted in the same time period, like in these exact same years of killing her infant daughters in Illinois.
And this woman.
Paula had killed like I believe her first baby was like eighteen months and then the other one was only six weeks and she killed them both separately. She later said she had like postpartum psychosis and that the husband didn't want these babies and that's why she killed them, and so it was like really fucked up. But she's in jail for life anyway. Their live, the lives of the Stallings do not go well. Unsurprisingly, trauma, as we've
talked about many times, informs every moment of people's lives. Sadly, DJ, the brother died in twenty thirteen, at the age of twenty three. I literally scoured everywhere and I could not find out where how he died. But he did die at age twenty t Patty and David got divorced, and then David died. After remarrying and having more children with subsequent wives, he died in twenty nineteen after a long illness.
I could not find a single thing about what Patricia is up to these days, like there is nothing recent about how she is. But I was on the Unsolved Mysteries website and there was a full article about this, and then in the comments below there was like a
lot of conversation happening in the comments. Someone on the forum claiming to be Mara Stallings, who is one of David's daughters from a previous a subsequent marriage, was responding to comments on this again that this is unverified, but she was speaking as if she was the daughter of David Stallings, And someone responded semon asked like, oh, like, is it true DJ died and she said yes, he was my brother and I was eight years old and my dad died last year. None of us have heard
from her in probably over twenty years, meaning Patty. So I think what happened was she left DJ with her ex husband and she just fully disappeared. So like, no one knows what's up with Patricia Stallings. I did like a pretty thorough search. I found obituaries for women that are not her named Patty Stallings, and it's just like I think maybe she was just too traumatized by what happened and like couldn't be but DJ grew up with
his father and step siblings until he passed. Wow, And I have no idea what's up with Patricia or Patty Stallings, but I hope she's doing Okay, Yeah, and that's the story.
Okay, thank you, Well you're welcome. It sucks, and what's this disease?
And god, well, it's like you said, like nowadays there's technology that this doesn't happen anymore.
Now the testing is more decisive, you know.
Yeah, so I hope this won't happen again to some poor mom who's just like as a kid with a rare disorder.
Anyway, thank you for doing that. I can't wait for our guests. Guys are gonna be excited.
I know it's too much.
I am so very personally obsessed with today's guests, because I have just seen him in so many things. I've been obsessed with him when he was in a show called Picket Fences. Also, he's Shelby's father, and Steele Magnolius one of my favorite movies of all time. He's been in more than forty movies and over two hundred television shows. You guys, he is just so prolific and such a wise man, and we were so lucky to talk to him. Please check out our conversation with Judge Oliver Taft aka
Tom Scarett. So you live in the Pacific Northwest or Seattle area or we wanted to ask you what made you did You used to live in la and just decided that wasn't for you, Or New York and decided that you wanted to be sort of a New York.
I could have handled.
I went to use cla and wanted to be a writer and wound up acting only because I want to know what it felt like to act. That's because you've got to feel the stuff out. You can't explain it. You can't learn it any other way other than sticking your foot into a pile of mud to know what it is and some aspects of Los Angeles were not made me comfortable. So I had to get up here
because everywhere I look is just a creative input. And they live in that kind of a place where you have trees and water and eagles flying around and be able to look at someone's dock and they've got an otter has climbed up there, and you know, all this variety of stuff that feeds the imagination in a way that creatives need to have a frame of reference. And there's a larger frame of reference here than there is in Seattle and Los Angeles.
Well, we'll start with the SBU episode, one of our top favorites. You play one of the biggest villains I would say in SBU history.
Really yeah, he boils our blow.
I mean he told you know, Casey to wear a skirt that really bothered us. But did you draw from any real life inspiration? How did you come up with this guy?
You know, your whole life informs you, and I don't think you free determined when you're being hired to play an actor, play a character that you really know how you're going to do it, And I don't analyze this stuff. And the minute you start thinking about how you're going to do it. You're in trouble. You have to wear a suit that just sort of fits from all the
other scum. And if it's playing a bad guy, that you have personalities that you really found annoying, that you did not want to be around is sort of what you find in some way in the language that you're reading, the dialogue that you're given, and you don't paint an image. You just do what you do, which seems to be a reflection and some other character that you spent some time with and you did not want to be with them.
So we'll say, yes, there's a specific person in mind.
Oh yeah, no short answers from this guy.
Yeah.
We talked to some actors and they were saying that you have to be empathetic to your character to be able to play him or her and be able to truly understand them. Or can you hate your character and still play them, or do you really have to understand them?
I know about all that stuff.
All I know is that you just the minute you have to analyze that, the minutes you start thinking you got a problem.
So how I got there? I don't know. Okay, the mirror.
Of bad behavior that I've seen in other people, and politicians in particular. You just know, this is just extraordinary for this person to say that I'm behaving that way, and I know what they really are like and what the ill use of important positions such as a judge or politician is usually for men, if I may say this for the ladies, we're driven by ego, and you guys know about community, and this is with that character.
I know the.
Ego of men, and I have grown out of that a long time ago and find that it's more interesting to listen to what other people have to say about anything. You know, I'm in fact, that's right, I see right now, and I'd rather hear you guys talk.
I was wondering if you've always been so chill and always been able to enjoy the process and your career, or is that come with experience.
I think that comes.
With experience, and you probably know that. I'm a lucky man. I mentored with guys were not famous, and they were all filmmakers. Robert Allman, hal Ashby, Ridley Scott herb Ross. I did two films with him, once Steve Magnoia's and The Ballet Turning Point, which was a great ballet movie.
Both of them.
Had you know, acknowledgements with Academy Awards and all that. You know, these are good filmmakers and these are just guys. I got to know who i'd listened to and are talking to an ad or an actor or whatever you learn from listening and see the patterns that the actors may fail at or exceed.
No, and the scenes with you and Diane Neal, who plays Casey Novak were so good. You guys had such awesome icy interactions. Was that Do you remember working with her that day or any memories we.
Honestly, I have done so much.
Yes, I remember the people, but it I don't necessarily remember the interplay. The interplay is like you know, warning of fire, and you got the fire going, the fire prints outation you know at an end. So it's a fire in what you're doing. And the creative process does not linger in a conscious way. It may be something you've drawn subconsciously when you need it as an artist, whatever the media may be. Because I paint under other
things creatively. So I can't keep all that in my head of specific memories of other than laughing a lot when I mean mash the movie a long time ago, and I've never had fun in my life in a whole production of a film, But I remember playing this icy carry to this not somebody I particularly want to be friends with, who would not want to be friends with me either, this judge.
It's just oh my god.
Yeah, you had to be pretty harsh with a little girl too.
You had I don't know if you remember your interplay, but you had a little with the little girl you were.
Because I'm I always kind of have to qualify. I don't want to scare them. Uh, it's just saying, honey, how you doing? And I'm I'm gonna be Can I pretend to be a mean guy?
Do you?
And they just look at me like what am I talking about? But if I go boo? Is that scary you? No, that's it's all afraid pretend and they kind of get it as much as they possibly can.
And you've done so many roles and played so many different kinds of characters. But if you were to come back to SVU, let's just imagine they're bringing you back, what kind of part would you love to play?
Oh? When it doesn't offend me?
All right?
And it's just amazing to see someone be able to do something that they love and do it so well for as long as you have and your newest in East of the Mountains getting a lot of positive attention.
Was that an enjoyable experience? We can't wait to watch it.
Yeah, if you haven't seen, it's a very engaging film. It's very simple way forward.
We can't wait.
So what what's your Do you have anything of acting wise that's like coming up for you? Like now East of the Mountains is out, or is there something you're working on coming up?
Or well I did something recently over there with a friend who runs a company called North by the Northwest. It's over in Spokane, and and Sony came in and asked him with this company to do a series sixth series thing on their streaming channel. So a lot of what we're talking about is a new industry, which is streaming. Our inexpensive film. So all these big wastes that have been going out over a period of years and ninety two budget films and so on and so forth, are they're not going to exist.
And hears to come.
They have to bring everything down quite a bit, so budgets, everything has to come back to reality.
So this guy and I have put it together.
Different communities in Idaho too, Boise a little places are doing low budget stuff to put on streaming channels. So we're building a company to do that, to do interesting stuff that's cool. Yeah, guys like David Goodison a road snow falling on cedars and East of the Mountains is a friend.
We did this thing because.
Six years ago it was we were already having coffee or whatever it was, and he said, Jesus, if I ever do East.
Of the Months, I like you to play this guy. And I said, I'd be wonderful.
But we have to do it up here, and we have to utilize it as impossible as an example of what we can do here in this community.
Actually, our producer Hannah, who you met at the beginning, that that's her uncle who wrote East of the Mountains.
Yeah, David's my uncle.
My mom is Mary Gudersen, and David is I grew up on Bambridge Island with them.
Oh, yeah, wonderful. I hope you get over there and see them. I haven't seen them since Covid.
Well I saw. I watched East of the Mountains this week. It was phenomenal. You were unbelievable. And if you go to page eighty two of the book I Am on It, it says Hannah Crichton, I made him put me in a book. So we're both in East of the Mountains. Just so you know, it was great. You were unbelievable, truly.
Good for us, Yeah, good for us.
Well, that's a nice, nice experience and just getting your head down and who you are in that film, being who you are, being that who that is.
That was cool. Wow. I want to be with it, you know what.
We've had back to back guests that are like in their eighties and crushing it at life and working and it's really it's beautiful and impressive to see, you know. Yeah, when you follow your passion, it keeps you young, keeps you thriving, keeps.
You wanting wistom of age. You don't need to be where you don't want to be. You gotta go.
Where you feel like the creedive juices are flowing. It's good.
Yeah. What's the post mortem on this episode? What did we learn that judges or assholes too?
That judges should not be lifetime appointments, They should not be appointed by the president. We should be voting them all in what the fuck is going on? These people are not immune to shit, and we need to do a deep dive into the country's judges. And I don't know how to it's I don't but like it needs to be a full blown audit. I know, for last time when I was voting, I like went through all the judges and there was horrific, insane stuff going on with them, and it's like, yeah, it's hard.
You have to be so.
Vigilant and on top of it, it's like a full time job to change the world, and that's how they keep us so fucking busy, like and so self focused that we're not doing this stuff. But it is just scary, and to think about all the kids and people that are in jail unfairly, it's scary. I guess my takeaway is like, it's fucking scary if you're not a rich white.
Person in this country.
Yeah, judges have too much power and uh also apparently a lot of them have affinities for white moms that will still kill their kids. Although I will say in the real case, it was nice to see that there was like a prosecutor that did the right thing and was like we got to dismiss this.
We fucked up, you know.
Yeah, but if that guy didn't watch Unsolved Mysteries, she would.
Still be riting in jail.
And thank god that Unsolved Mysteries. Thank god the media kind of has a little bit of power sometimes where it can get the word out to people. And that her story was discovered by these experts, you know.
Yeah, it's and then also like conclude, think, god, you know, think I'm thankful for science and that there's research in and so now hopefully people are not being falsely convicted for poisoning their children when they're not being poisoned. Yeah, and maybe we can cure this weird pro teen disease. I don't know, So that's pretty sad. Also I'm learning that maybe DA's are fully hopped up on coke and speed and writing reports at all times.
Like I don't know.
I just I mean, we do a lot of research, so I am typing a lot, but like having to, I just can't imagine the amount of documents.
I guess I learned how many documents lawyers work with. Yeah, it's more than I thought. It's not great.
A lot of emotions, A lot.
Of emotions, A lot of thick paperwork files that look like the QD report.
And also I didn't know that you can wave a jury. I didn't know either. Kyle Rittenhouse should have done that. You can just be like I put it in the judge's hands. I didn't know you could do that.
I wonder, like why people would choose to do that.
I think that you might do that maybe in a case that was really publicized where you feel like everybody's biased against you, and like maybe the judge will like really consider the facts of the case.
Well, this is another thing with the judges.
It's like you assume these judges are always lean conservative, Like who wants to be a judge?
Not a cool person? Right?
I don't know, Like do cool ass bros that have some like beers on a boat on the weekend, Like, do they want to be judges?
You're literally describing Judge Kavanaugh like talking about having beers with his homies and his.
Fucking Supreme Court coming. Oh my god. Lol.
Yeah, but he's a he's a rapist to me before he's a judge.
Yeah, that's true. That's his headline.
And I think we learned as usual, do not fuck with Casey novak, she will, yes fucking come for you, even if you're a judge.
Yeah, damn, I don't know.
It's just like bleak, dude, I'm not And it's winter, you know, It's like it's winter blues. It's winter blues. It's the Yeah, I don't know. Why don't we split up the holidays. It's kind of annoying. They're all squished together.
Yeah, squished together, and then like January February March is like a just a long slog of nothing to look forward to, like Saint Patrick's Day.
I love Valentine's Day, though, I mean, okay, I do.
I like conversation hearts, Yeah, I like the candy, I like the color scheme.
I love hearts. I mean I have so many hearts tattooed on me.
It's like a true it is a thing I enjoy aesthetically. I've only Yeah, whatever, let's get going. What are we doing next week?
Let's get going. This week's what would Sister peg Do?
Is our weekly segment where we direct you, guys towards organizations, articles, books, some kind of resource that will help you better understand what we touched on today. In light of the case of Patty Patricia Stallings that we talked about today. We would like to highlight this week the Innocence Project, which
is www dot Innocenceproject dot org. They try to bring reform to the system that is responsible for unjust imprisonment, and we all know that that's very important, especially now with hundreds of thousands of people probably in jail for wrong reasons. On their website there are ways to get involved, like donating, starting fundraisers, signing petitions, inviting xoneries to speak. What an inspiring idea to come to your next like
zoom Christmas party or something. Have somebody that's been exonerated come speak. And you can find your local organization and sign up for volunteer opportunities. So check out Innocenceproject dot org.
All right, and a quick reminder, it is Britney Spears's birthday on December twod this Thursday, so if you guys want to celebrate her birthday and then next week we have a fun celebration. It's our one year anniversary episode. No, that was not a sound effect button, that was my mouth. We're doing a big one, guys. I think you're going to be excited. We're watching Pure season six, Episode eighteen. Get into it, Peacock, Lulu, your local library, and we
will see you next week for our one year anniversary. Yay, Thank you, Bye bye.
That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
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