Perverted w/ Emma Myles

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, yay.

Welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast. My name is Lisa Traeger.

Hello, and I'm Kara Klink and welcome. This is our podcast where we talk about Law and Order SVU episodes the crimes they're based on, and then we talk to an actor from the show. And it is our two year anniversary today from today, Yeah, it's like our hundred and like I don't know, it's like one episode one oh six or something. But we started two years ago, December of twenty twenty, in the middle of the pandemic.

You guys are the best.

Yeah, from the day ones to the people who just recently found us, to the people that dabble, to the people who listen every day on their commits, all of you. We're so lucky and we're having a good time doing this.

Yeah.

Also, one more quick piece of business, we would like to shout out our mixer. We have a mixer, someone who makes our episode sound appealing to your ears and has as is sort of an unsung hero of our show. His name is John Bradley, and we would like to thank you John for everything you do to make our podcast sound cool and normal and palatable. And this episode is wide releasing on just December thirteenth, which means tonight we are in Texas, we are in Houston, and tomorrow

Come check out our our tour dates.

We also are doing Northeast Philly, Boston, Hartford in January, so get New York two and New York New York is so sorry, yeah, but yeah the rest of those cities still have some tickets left. We added an extra show in Boston. So if you tried for Boston early on and didn't get a ticket, we added another show.

And that's that for that business.

And we do we want to do our other big announcement before we get into our chit chat.

Or do we wait, let's wait, we'll do an announcement. Well, first chit chat. We have a lot to talk about, yeah, and then we'll tease one more bit of announcement towards yeah in a few minutes. In a few minutes, no big deal. I just yeah, one listen. I love you for you. I can't get enough. But I watched it all in three days. I stayed up till seven in the morning. Oh my god, that's me in my damages days.

Oh yeah.

And the thing is it is emotional. It's it's definitely because people said it was dark and everyone kept saying it, and I was like, I used to watch OZ when I was twelve, Like, let me, I'll tell you.

Yeah, we do an SVU podcast. We can handle a little darkness.

And the people were dead on it is really brutal, but in a way that's not gratuitous or just because like and I listened to all the interviews, you know, HBO does really good behind the scenes little things and Zendaia Zendeia, I forget she says it too, but she was just saying, it's like so much about empathy and really understanding what people are going through.

And I think they like nail it.

And now that I've been on a set consistently more than I've ever had in my life, watching this show, I'm like so impressed. I like, can't these young actors. If you think Olivia Benson's wet eyes are impressive, these fucking teams, I swear to God, like they are so good. Zenda deserves every award ever. And you remember like this year the but so that everyone was obsessed with where it's like her running and it like really got a

Like?

It was so good and I just don't get people's standards or what they're like, what sucks, what's good? It's so annoying to me. It really I really enjoyed it. I really, yeah.

I'm so glad I watched. I went to go see something I really enjoyed. I went to go see the Glass Onion, the Knives Out, and the New Knives Out.

Moh my god, lucky.

I guess it was.

Right up top our our new best friend, Dallas Roberts.

He is a very small part, but he's married to Catherine Han and I feel like he didn't mention that to when we asked him, what.

Are you up to coming up?

He was never like, I'm gonna be in this star studded cinematic event of fucking Christmas twenty twenty two.

Maybe he didn't. He wasn't allowed to talk about it yet, but it was the movie good, so good.

I famously fell asleep during Knives Out one because I was had a new baby and they had wine at the theater and warmed seats, and that was like a combination for me being unable to stay awake.

But I did see it later on a plane and was like, oh, this is fun.

I liked it, but I don't know seeing it on the big screen that you can only really see it on the big screen for like a couple of weeks. It's gonna go right to Netflix. It's like they just did movie theaters for a week. But it's I loved it. We were My husband thought it was better than the first one. I really thought it was great. I didn't know anything about it going in. I didn't even really even know who was in it, so it was so fun.

Small part, but he was, but he was very fun.

Way you have to bring up the big part of Euphoria or girl Martha Kelly. Oh yes, she is as chilling as they said. I mean, I was most looking forward to seeing her, and I got like, that's the thing. Like all of the stuff I was hearing and all the press and stuff like, seeing it, I was like everyone was dead.

On she is chilling, evil, casual.

It's like it's really teaches a lot of lessons. It's just like incredible, it really was. There is a lot of sex, so like get ready for there's so much dick, a lot of dick. Well they showed dick, so many dicks, like I would say a minimum of forty.

Dicks, like teen dicks. Well yeah, but they're not old.

I know the actors are not teens, but they're supposed to be teen dicks.

Daddy dicks. Photos of dicks, like, yeah, a lot.

Of dicks, wow wow, a lot of great makeup, a lot of fashion. I already followed all of them. I'm just like stalking their lives, like yeah, good.

Enough, And it's funny.

There's like moments and departures like you vibes where they are funny. And she's just like an incredible actress, Like no wonder she's won these Emmys, like she really is.

Zenda Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah no.

But Martha Kelly's wearing like crocs but is like a vicious motherfucker.

I don't I know.

That's why I love her so much, like as a person but also like on baskets, I loved her and I like, I can't believe she's taking this evil turn and I need to watch I want to watch.

It, like for that pretty much.

But you know how I was really annoyed when people are like, if you're a parent, don't watch it, like other people can't get sad. But I understand now why people say that. Yeah, that's why I'm kind of like.

But then I also heard I don't know if you're gonna like disagree with this, but what I heard was like, this is what thirty five year olds think that high school is like now, and it's not really what high school's like now. Like I was reading something about Euphoria where it was like, this is what like the writer creator of the show thinks high school is like.

But it's like not.

And so when you're watching it as a parent, like, don't get too war that like your kid's.

Gonna be doing Heroin or whatever. But people are.

It also depends where you grow up in what group there, And I'm sure there's a lot of people at Yuphoria High School who are not doing all this. But no, the writer and creator of the show and who directed a lot of it to he was an addict. He was a teen addict, and so Ruzandaia's character is him.

Like you're annoying or something or this.

And his goal wasn't even to be like this is high school orgies. It was more like to actually like feel for these teens and the way they're growing up right now. And yeah, but the scenes that are the most sad that I think for a parent is like you see Ru. You see Ru's mom just like not be able to help her who is so addicted to drugs.

Oh my god. You know who else is good? I worked with her Alana Uhbacher.

She was the best friend and legally blonde, the brunette, she's like in everything.

Oh yeah, yeah.

I worked with her on a pilot that never aired. But she's incredible and she plays such a good mom, like not a good mom is a good parent, but like she's an incredible I just was impressed, like hands down. I also think I thought it was gonna be too teen like and it wasn't It just was like so impressive. Also, I'm looking at it right now. Shout out to the woman in Madison who brought me my IVY bag.

Thank you so much. Oh yes, that was amazing. Have you ever amazing? Up and down that?

I mean truly, Like we get a lot of fun stuff. People do needle point, people draw pictures, people bring us joints.

It's great, they bring presence for Rosie. But the IVY bag off the charts, off the charts, and what's funny?

So like I'm house, I was cat sitting for friends while they were out of town for Thanksgiving. Well and I got to stay in New York, but I get COVID tested for the shoot, you know, and so like the the only things on the couch when this COVID tester came into the apartment was the IVY bag in my laptop.

So just like a clean apartment.

I had not even unpacked yet, and it was just and I could see him looking at the IVY bag, and I'm like, I wonder what he thinks.

And I thought, there's no reway and hall Lisa is going to take this from city to city where she's about to keep being living out of a suitcase, and she definitely is.

She figured out away.

I wrapped it in three clear garbage bags from the hotel that we were at, and then I put it in a clear, my clear fanny pack.

Smart, smart, Thank you so much? Is that all I had?

Am I really living that boring of a life that it was just like euphoria and an IV bag?

And then I'm done?

Yeah? We had Thanksgiving and I took my couch to a farm.

Thanksgiving was fun.

I just watched five kids tear my house apart, and then I took my kids to a farm so they could like pet animals. My my son is like truly addicted to this baby Instagram animals thing that I that I show them Sometimes when he's like freaking out, I'll just be like, want to look at baby animals And we just look at baby And now he's grabbing my phone on the type of going animals animals, and I'm like.

Oscar, stop, like you're addicted. You can't. I can't have you.

Like addicted to screens this quick. And so I've been trying to wean him off of it. But I took him to a real farm, and I didn't realize it's like this cool farm sanctuary.

I didn't realize it's like kind of.

Related like Joaquin Phoenix like saved a cow from a factory that lives there. We saw the cow, They're like, this is the Joaquin Phoenix cow. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And then they like told us and it was this cool it's a sanctuary.

Because of avian flu.

The birds we went we saw them all from Afar the chickens and the turkeys.

Martha Kelly's character in Euphoria has a bunch of parakeets that squawk or well, no, that's not what they're called. What are the parrots? Parrots not parents? Yeah, is that the same thing?

Well, I always think of a parakeet as like a smaller parrot, but I think they're kind of similar. But I could be that could be a thing I made up in my mind because of the way the words sound similar. But yeah, oh, we were talking also about we were talking about like a bad article recently when we were recording another episode.

And did you see do you happen to see this?

Like LA Magazine, which I usually respect and think LA Magazine is like a great publication and like I always want them to like post about how my comedy.

Show is good.

They released this article over like right before Thanksgiving about this woman. This famously happened in like Hidden Hills. This woman lives next door to like Laurie McLaughlin from Aunt Becky from Full House, the one who did like you know, Operation Varsity Blues or whatever.

So all these rich people.

No, no, Laurie McLaughlin, Laurie Laughlin got it, Laurie metcalf is from Roseanne. No Laurie Laughlin, I said MacLaughlin, but it's Laughlin. She's her husband is like Massimo, the guy that's in all the like targets or whatever.

Yeah, Like they're most famous for the scandal.

The scandal, but that's how they have their money is from the Massa. So she lives in This woman was living in this like hidden Hills, saying she was driving her Mercedes, she was drunk, she was going eighty miles an hour in a forty five and she hit two little boys and killed them. Okay, this fucking woman. And LA magazine does a full fucking profile on her with photographs of her looking down about how her life was destroyed in an instant and how her dream life has

And we're doing an LA magazine.

Article about how like that literally there's a part about how her and another car we're like racing each other and the author called it a frisky game of cat and mouse. It's like, please, don't use the word frisky in an article right before you talk about how two little boys died. So that was just like really making me crazy. And I wasn't sure if you saw it. I just go was surprised LA mag because that's how was Lri Laughlin involved.

They are neighbors.

God, So that just like gives you a little background on like the privilege and the kind of neighborhood it is in LA It's like a hidden hills or whatever.

Well, yeah, and of course she is only thinking about herself, not two dead children that she Yeah, is she in jail, that's the thing.

She's awaiting her trial, like her trial's about to start. And I was like, how did you fucking you must have had to pay all the money in the world to get a notable publication to do this puff piece about you and how you're good or how you're like just like friends with an editor.

You're like a.

Regular person who but like everybody was like tweeting at the magazine, tweeting at the author, like, how could you guys do? Like if I was a journalist, I'd be like, you guys gotta put la magstaff. I'm not gonna like you gotta you gotta like make this generic, like I can't have my name on this like crazy crazy Anyway.

Well, Laura Laughlin just reminds me of fucking Candae Cameron.

Oh yeah, and she can go kick rocks.

Yeah, and then they it's just like what bothers me too is now people call her out and she's like, I love people of all different It's like, you don't just say you're a fucking homophobe, you dumb back, and that's why you didn't want to hang out with Jojo Seawatt.

Listen, I fucking hate religious people.

Oh and I wanted to also remind you guys, with the holiday season coming.

Up, we do have new merch. We got uh, We've.

Got our tank top and our zip up that we've had for a while, but we added this super cute purple sweatshirt obviously to talk about our conspiracy theory of there being so much purple on us.

For you, it's so cute. The lettering is.

Beautiful, and then we have a cute is that is that merch? Is this merch beanie, which I think is so funny because we say that all the time, and we're adding a couple of things too that should be in there any day now. So check in, go to exactly Rightmedia dot com slash shop and you should be able to find that that's messed up stuff, or if you follow us on Instagram, it's the It's at the top of.

Our link in our bio.

So check that out, go buy some stuff for the holiday season, and yeah, gift the other TMU lovers in your life some TMU merch.

And now stay where you are. Our episode is beginning.

Okay, we're doing the episode Perverted, Season eleven, episode nine.

Any initial thoughts, Karra, This is a wild one. This is a twisty one. You know. Is that a song Dona Donna was a wild one? Is that a song?

Uh? Yeah, it's a csong were the Wild Ones? Yeah, it's called wild Ones. Yeah, perfection.

We open up on a statue and it's like there are birds and it looks like Ariel the cartoon Little Mermaid's Dad aka Got of the Sea, but like right, but not really but there's also a hell element to it. So we hear a man's voice and he like as a voice over, and he's obsessed with the statue, and the woman with him is like, I really don't give

I don't say that.

The dad then starts reading about the statue. It's a peace fountain, good over evil, violence and harmony, light and darkness, life and death. And the girl's like, what's that and the mom's like, that's the devil and she's like, no, that and points to a dead body, and we do see a dead body. There's tattoos, bald leather vest, biker vibes from a distance, and now we're at work, okay, and we got Melinda Benson's stable or iced tea full house we're at we're at the scene of the crime.

I says, I thought squirrels preferred nuts.

I love it.

Oh, I mean, we're hitting so many laughlines already. We're a minute in.

Sabler fakes laughs and then he says, well, our guy is huge, so there must have been more than one attacker, And Melinda's like, I don't know, because there's two holes in the shirt, which means he's tasered and he was he has the logo of his motorcycle club on his person, so they know he belongs or belonged to the Death Knights, which is an outlaw gang outside of the East Village, says iced tea drug running, prostitution, contract killing, you know, classic.

I can't tell, and it sounds good.

It's a poetic name, and so that's the name on the ID and Stabl's like, who did you piss off? And Finn Is like, well, have you ever lived questioned this guy in a rape case or domestic And Stabler's like I don't think so why and fing goes, well, then what's he doing with Olivia's card?

Done?

Done, boom, So it's credits. We arrive at Benson's apartment. She's walking up to the door, she opens it and Stabler's right there, and then Marishka's walking back into the apartment. We noticed she's sick, and then Stabler goes, you look terrible.

Sure, Stabler like just what everyone needs to hear when they have the flu.

Yeah.

She grabs the file out of his hands and is like this guy he then says, yep, this biker with this myth.

He said, this is so funny.

He then says, yep, the biker with the missing kickstand am, and I feel like this is rivaling the episode Sick the Michael Jackson one in terms of like how funny, how many funny lines?

There are so many.

He asked if she has been to the doctor, and it's like Benson won't even get protective detail when people are actively trying to murder her. She did not go to the doctor, sir. And so she's not gone to the doctor. And she does not recognize Clyde. She suggests maybe he found her card on one of their victims and assumed maybe she talked and he messed her up, and then instead of going back to the cops, she got revenge. That's a wild first guess.

Four things had to happen for this to happen, Like.

Yeah, what, she's really created a narrative.

Stabler's like, I'll figure it out.

You rest up, and then Stabler touches her and goes fuck you. But she's like, oh, I only have progress, Like I'm at I was at one O two, I'm at one O one right now. But Stave Butlero cares about her, so he starts filling up a tea kettle to make her some tea. And the apartments is different than the apartment in my head. And now I'm like,

Only remember having a door one.

She has a doorman in more recent seasons, like in teen seasons, but I don't know if she did back in this day.

Yeah, I want to if any of our moles on the inside want to talk to set design or we just have to have someone on I just or if you're a super fan.

And you know you just know.

Yeah, I'm really curious the apartments of Olivia Ben's.

Because like, was it the one we just did with the serial Killer and Shannon Woodward where they're like all units to Benson's apartment and like everyone just knows where it is, Like they don't like say what the address is. Like everyone's like, oh shit, yeah, we've all partied to Benson's apartment.

We know where that.

I mean, she just needed protective detail. Seventeen times they got that address. So then while he's making tea, she's like, wait, so this happened outside of Saint John's, Like.

Did Clyde worship there? Like what's going on?

You know?

Like why is it outside the church?

And he opens her fridge and is like, ugh, you have no food and it's like, bitch, this is New York and she doesn't have a family of five, like, and she's like, have you never heard of a thing called delivery? And it's like, yeah, get away from us. On her coffee table there's a candle in fresh lavender flowers. I love that Benson is into self care. He then finds brochures on her counter and is like, oh wait, were you planning on an island vacation? And she snatches

Can she just watch the view in peace?

Like she has to go sleep and drink tea and have groceries. Benson then warns him and is like, bite, gangs don't play nice. Watch out, and he says that Finn's already at the clubhouse.

So we jumped to the clubhouse. Lol.

Munch is there and we just hear his voice say what's wrong with you people? And then a man who looks like Colin Quinn with a Lord four quad wig and Denham cut off shirt and a leather vest, and he only cares about pool. He's like, you're blocking must shot and Munch is like, dude, if someone caught off my friend's dick, I would try to find out who did it, loyal friend. And you know what that Yeah,

We're not talking to the cops.

Munchie and Finn says, cool, We'll just make sure to have eyes on you.

Twenty four to seven.

Then oh my god, Munch is like, did you know there's a grammar mistake on your logo?

An extraneous apostrophe.

So Munch is the Kara today, that's me, that is you, And that upsets the biker with the bangs and he goes, listen, Skeletor, get your bony ass out of here before someone mistakes you for a pool stick, Like.

Where are these lines today? We never get anything like this anymore. It's so funny. Listen, Skeletor, Like, I'm.

No, I honestly, I you know, I'll watch forever. There's amazing episodes. I love a lot of the characters, but there's something missing.

And I think it's Neil Bear, yeah, and Munch a little bit, but.

Yeah, no, I think it's the I think it's the dynamic of Munch and say, like the dynamic of all the actors, of course, but the granddaddy of it all that I think.

Was really digging that humor was Neil. I don't I don't know. Yeah.

So anyways, Finn comes in to smooth it over and he's like, guys, guys, we're just here to make a notification and we're not leaving without Clyde's address. They do not cooperate. The detectives leave with no scoop. He says, they'll never talk to us as a group. We got to get one like away from the herd. And then at this moment a biker room rooms up and Munch

And Munch goes, don't insult Bessie, and so.

I guess he calls his car Bessie and he goes fork over the goods and this guy looks like he straightens his hair and then much looks at the id then calls him Timothy, and he's like, the name is t Bone, and it's.

Like it's so funny.

You're like George Costanza, you know, like this is ridiculous. Finn then notices and goes, hey, wrong, id you need a class M to have a motorcycle?

So come with us Bone.

As Finn and Munch bring this guy in handcuffed, Craigan meets them in a hallway and says, fifteen of you against one defenseless girl. He says, sounds good, sign me up. Then Munch says, these knuckle draggers have a website, so now we see it's on a monitor. And the Dead Knights they have a website and they put up a video and it's a girl passed out getting banged by a biker in front of a group of cheering bikers.

And he's not.

Scared of the cops because he didn't do anything wrong, and Starlow was just laying back and enjoying it, he says, and Finn is like, nope, she's passed out so she can't give consents. So you're actually gonna have all your little biker meetings in lock up because that's where people go for rape. And he's like simmer down steroid boy to Stabler and explains it was all in good fun, and then Craigan's famous line, Cara, you want to take it away?

It's all fun and games until someone loses a penis.

So the video we're looking at is from when Clyde came back from prison. Starla was his welcome home present and he was late, and so they got bored, and then they're like, so he didn't mind sloppy fifteenth and he's like, nah, he was in jail for five years with no stink. I like hate that, And actually he likes her a lot and made her his old lady, big step up from a mama. So a mama is

Like kind of they were like the eels from Little Mermaid. He yet fletsam and jetsam.

Yeah.

Yeah, she's also Emma has also been in three other SBUs So. She was played Carlene Jenkins in American Dream and Sanctuary like a double episode, and her first episode was Haunted and she played Lizzie Jones and I watched it and she plays another addict, So I think she has a type cast.

I'm a girl.

Yeah, I go a high audition for girls who love lunch and she goes out for drug addicts, girls who love meth, girls.

Who love meth.

Sailor's like, I just want to talk and she tries to run but falls and that's that and so she is not okay, and she's like, my old man was killed yesterday and now I'm getting busted. He says, listen to me, if you had anything to do with his murder, I'd understand, and she's like, are you high? Why would I kill Clyde and walks off, and he says he watched the gang rape, but she says it was not rape. And her job for the crew now is that she

So they walk into her apartment.

She says she doesn't know what they do with the documents, but she just does what she's told. She takes off her blazer and calls it a monkey suit, and she has a tattoo that says property of the Death Knights. She says it means I belong and he says it means they own you. And she's like, hey, it got me out of Sturgis, South Dakota, and to earn a

Down with again funny yeah.

So then he's like, okay, but what was Clyde doing with her card? And she says he didn't get it from her and then asks where his hog is and he says, well, not at a clubhouse or the crime scene or outside, and she's like ugh. So then she says, when he was done slapping her around last night, he rode off on the hog. So that was the last time she laid eyes on either one of him or the bike, and then she cries and says, I loved that bike, Like it's so funny.

Also, I don't think we gave enough time to Stabler trying to kick that door open and not being able to it was so funny. He was like, either these doors are getting tougher or I'm getting older, And it's like.

I like that. Once we get to see him kick it and nothing.

Fucking happens except he goes, how so funny.

Well, it was like a steel door, It wasn't would Yeah, these are like bikers. I think they fucking know how to like keep it like you know.

And it also looked like an industrial like building, a factory turned into lofts.

Yeah, type of situation.

So to Stabler walking into the squad room and Cragan's informing him that they found Clyde's bike.

So there.

Someone witnessed a hit and run. It was at one hundred and thirteenth in Amsterdam. He said, a crazy brunette hit him and ran and was driving a black Bustang and he got part of the license plate and the guy on the call had to go and they go through people with partial plates and one of the partial plates is Olivia Benson.

So she has a car. I'm concised he has a black lust.

He's confused, like everyone's confused by this. So now Craigan and Benson are in her parking garage walking and we're looking at a picture of Starla while they walk and talk, and Benson's like, no, I've never seen her before. And Benson is sad that she's going to jail because she is a rape victim. And Cragan's like, you don't understand how much personal access, like how much personal info she had access to.

In the clerk's office.

But Benson's still pissed, like these abused women are put up to do these tasks and then take the fall for these men.

It sucks.

It's our old school slogan, don't go to jail for a man. We haven't said that a while. Do not go to jail for a man. Oh, this might be the first time Casey has heard that. That was a big deal when we first started. I think we would say that a lot. But yeah, we're all shocks.

She has a car.

It's a sixty five to eighty nine convertible, and Craigan is like huh, and she's like, listen, I had a midlife crisis moment, so I bought it. And then we see, uh oh, the front of the car is fucked up and it did hit something. And she's like, oh my god. But she hasn't driven the car in a month. But he says, well, someone did, and he immediately turns on her. It's quite crazy, really, like he knows her so well,

I don't know.

He just yeah, he turned on really fucking quick. He really does. And she's dumbfounded.

So csus to come down and he has to notify iab. She says I didn't do this, and he says, I believe you. He says, just go home, get over the flu, take a couple days, but she's obviously stressed.

She's sick and she's back to work. Baby.

She refuses to stay home and stay we's like okay, hi, and she's like and he breaks in the case and Munch is like, we can't talk to you about the case. Uh, Craigan's orders and she looks him up and down and is like, someone is framing me, So fill me in on the details that don't involve me. Stabler informs Benson that they found a knife in the trash bin on the scene of the crime. No Prince, but two different

Like?

Is there another saying that means the same thing?

Like?

Is that the only option we have?

No?

I'm sure there are other ones, but now they're of course not coming to my mind right now.

Yeah, I wonder let us know if you guys know of any other sayings. So anyways, he says, it's not about the case, babe, it's you look contagious and we don't really want you here.

So that's a good one.

And I can't tell if those are tears of stress or sick or during the flu. Your eyes look wet. But she is not doing well and she's back to work. Can we trace the nine one one call? Or what?

We trace the nine one one call?

And it's a person Khalil Asad And she wants to go with and Stabler won't let her, and she gives him a really hurt look and goes, yeah, I know I'm the prime suspect. So anyway, so she runs off and they're like, where are you going? And she yells to clear my name. And now we cut to a

You could have saved a trip.

But Benson's like, so, did you find anything to identify the killer? She goes, well, the mouth was taped at some point. The wound has undulating borders, not serrated which is consistent with the knife they found. And also they cut his femoral artery, so he suffered but bled out quickly. Melinda, after giving some horrific details, is like, so are you okay? And she's like, I actually came by to ask you a favor, and Melinda answers, I don't have a miracle

But like, don't they have cops DNA? I don't know.

I don't know because for the bar exam, I mean they take lawyers DNA, So like, why wouldn't they take I.

Think they take your fingerprints. Do they take your DNA? I don't know. I wonder.

I was confused why they wouldn't already have the DNA. But anyways, so you know, she gives the DNA, she gives her a concerned look, and we end that scene on Melinda's face. The next scene, we're at Columbia University poopen Hall, Puppin' peppine whatever.

We're at a hall.

It's November tenth, and I wonder if the detectives found time to vote during this week of investigating.

You're always looking at the dates. I can't stop now.

It's it's yeah, I'm looking at decor, I'm looking at art, I'm looking at dates. But it is science class. It's about like a space and sun. Some man is lecturing, and Fin and Munch creep into the classroom, and once class is dismissed and the students are starting to put their shit together, the detectives are like, which one of you is Khalil Lesade And.

We see him.

I guess he's been really hard to track down, but it's also only been like a day, so I don't know what's going on. He blamed not answering their calls on his heavy class load, and then they're like, hey, bro, why did you have that accent in the nine to one one call? So he has an accent, and he said he didn't make the call. A stranger pulled up in a car and said he saw the crime, but his battery was dead and asked to use his cell phone.

What did he look like?

White dude five ten to six feet with brown hair and nicely dressed, and it's like, fuck, that's tough, and obviously that is not like a very descriptive thing.

I'll help them like an average man.

But he might have been driving a silver Mercedes, but we didn't notice the plate, so it doesn't really make sense. So he saw the crime, he sped off, then stopped for a call and had enough time to see Liv's tax and Craigan's like, okay, we got to start thinking the alternative is true, and Finn is like, live didn't do this, And any news on the car, he asks,

It's taken away.

Crazy, Yeah, Like, if you're out of town in a crimes committ you're just out of luck.

It's so stupid.

So that of course sucks because we can't prove that she didn't take the car out that night, and Finn says someone is setting her up. Now we cut to Olivia in the same gray hoodie going through files and Craigan marches out of his office and is like, didn't I order you to bed rest? And she's like, I gotta find a connection to Clyde and someone that also

Shoosh.

While he's chatting the biker from the beginning of this episode, you know Colin Quinn but not and then I eventually find out there are two men. So I thought this Lord four quad is the whole time, but this guy is actually a different biker. But I got confused. I've been confused a lot throughout this whole episode. So while he's chatting, the biker comes and he starts pouring a forty on the hood of Stabler's cop car, and he goes, Babe, Babe.

I gotta guy.

So Stabler says, drop the bottle, and he says, I'll put it up your ass and stop messing with my brothers. And then and then he like tries to punch he misses, and Stabler then bends him over the hood of the car and is like, what are you a moron? He goes, I'm undercover, watch your back, and a bunch of leather Daddy's approached. So then Stabler flashes his badge and they're like, they know you're a cop, You're in a Crown vic you were They know they know he's been there. Yeah,

So he uncuffs him and throws.

The guy back at the guys because he has to go to his kid's school play and it's like, you don't have to tell them you have kids, Like, you don't have to fill the biker gang in on your schedule, and he's like, I don't want you know, this is your only free past, guys. I don't want to do paperwork. And then the guys are like bite me, and the boys are like, good one, dude, they're so lame. So now stablers with a stressed out cop who's like, you

That's it. Her name like never came up.

So he asked for surveillance photos, and our dudes like not till next week, like we gotta wait for this gun like sale to drop, and Stabler's like, well, if we find out your fucking cop wasn't involved, in Starla's gangbang. He's done and he says, nah, he's only a prospect into the gang. Those perks are for full members only. And I wonder if they do an initiation in light candles and like say things to each other.

There's like a whole thing. It's like it's all in Sons of Anarchy. Yeah, oh really? Oh yeah, yeah, I forgot. You're a son's creep? So is that what you guys call yourself?

Yep, sounds creeps.

Sailor then explains what's really going on with Olivia and the bogus charges and he's like, please help me, and he says, I'll show you one gives him a file. Inside is a photo of a man putting a device on Clyde's motorcycle last week. He thought it was a bomb, but it was just the GPS tracking device.

Why didn't they do anything?

Benson is sleeping on a couch with an open file lying right next to her, and a man creeps up over her and he says Detective Benson. And I'm like, oh my god, who can it be. I'm so scared And it's Tucker. Iab let's go baby. So she's like a little early no, and he's like, stop playing, you know why I am here, And before she really gets into it, he stops her and says, before you say anything, you need to know Clyde's killer has been identified and it's you.

She is shocked.

He mirandizes her and walks her down the balcony steps into the preestinct's main level and Craigan's like, you bitch, no professional courtesy. You could have given us a heads up instead of this dog and pony show. Also, I hear all the time about these dog and pony shows. I would love to go to a dog and pony show. That seems like my dream?

Is it? Where is it? I don't see any ponies at the Kettle Club.

I'm just saying, next year for my birthday, if you can find me a dog and pony show, I would love that. Love that tell the group Finn screams. So then Finn screams out don't talk to the rat police and that he's going to call the DA for a lawyer, and Tucker spins around and asks if she understands her rights.

She of course says yeah, duh.

Munch starts trying to butt in, but he has no patience and drags her off to Central Booking. She says, just wait, I've been locked up twice under cover. This isn't right. I didn't do this. Just talk to me, and he says you want to chat, and Munch says, don't you fucking do it? Wait for your lawyer, And then Tucker's like, I don't think the detective's union's going to cut it in this case, and I would try to get a good criminal defense lawyer. She yells, is

Questions until the end.

He asks if she's single, and she says, yes, she is single, there's no boyfriend, but what's up? Are you interrogating me for murder or signing me up for a dating service, and he just finds it odd that nobody stopped by to look in on her, and it's like, what a dick, leave this single woman alone?

So you have no one in your life, no one of importance. Okay, great, it's like.

Yes, sorry Stabler did, Yeah, sorry, my dad's a rapist and my mom is dead. My bad. And then he gets mad at her when she finds her brother. You know, he's just he can't.

Oh god, I cannot honestly, the way he treats her, it's really shocking that they ever fucked or dated and that we liked their relationship.

He's such a dick.

I don't remember how they got over or like when the relationship turns Yeah.

I don't know when he turns good either, but I do think he's hot.

He's very hot.

He asks her what her relationship to Clyde is, and she, of course says the truth and has no history with that dead man. He read his sheet and he's a rough character and not the type of guy you'd want to run into in a dark alley, Like, who is a man that you'd like to run into in a dark alley, nobody maybe Erkele.

You know, I'd be like my upset.

Honestly, if you ran into like Jared in a dark alley, you'd be like, what's up?

Are you looking for comic books? Like, well, that's because we know him.

If he was just walking, I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Stabler runs in and is like what the fuck is going on? And Craigan fills him in behind the interrogation glass. Craigan is like, you shouldn't be here, but Stabler produces the photo with the motorcycle, and the guy is like, this is who we should be looking for. We just need to see if live recognizes him. Tucker

I'll talk to you later, bitch. And then the.

Pretty eyed boys go back and forth for a bit, looking deep into each other's sexy eyes. And then he threatened Stabler like one day I'll have something on you to bitch. But then he's like, but I will relay anything you'd like me to relay to Olivia, Nah, I'll figure it out. So then Tucker goes back to talk to Benson. So he says, so where was I?

Where was I?

Like you know, like when you go back to a conversation.

He goes, so where was I? So where was I?

Honestly this should be a commercial for punctuation so kids learn.

So he says where was I?

She says, you were trying to put me in an alley where I wasn't And he walks over slowly to her, but doesn't sit down then looking down on her, so judgmental asks why she saw a psychiatrist last year?

Excuse me? Yeah, He's like, there is a rumor. Uh what'd you say?

Oh?

I just said dirtball. I don't like that, like the implication. Yeah.

He's like there's a rumor it's for post traumatic stress. And she's like, wow, munch was right. Big brother really is watching and he's like, well, you weren't shot on duties, so why are you doing that? And she's being vague and says, I was getting help for an issue I was having, thank you, and it wasn't even a company shrink, how the fuck did you find out about it? And he goes, Stabler told me, and she goes, you're lying and surprisingly you suck at it?

Who told you?

He leans in and says, you deal with an awful lot of rapists on this job. Did one of them overpower you and attack you? And maybe you had a flashback and then you lost it?

Did you lose it?

Clyde attacked you and you went back to a place of helplessness? And then he berates her like an evil defense attorney on this show would, and she yells and she's had enough. Stop playing games and tell me what you have on me? DNA positive match to the blood on the knife.

Fuck.

She can't even believe it.

She says, I told Warner to run the DNA, Like why would I do that if I knew it was me? And he says he thinks it's because she wanted to be caught. She's flabbergasted, and then she says, look, no cuts on me. She lifts her sleeves, shows her cleavage and like, where did the blood come from? And he goes, maybe you had a nosebleed? Okay, all right, come on, yeah, Like I can't believe she fucked this man, future, I really.

Can't, And then.

Goes, well, we'll find your wounds while we strip search you at intake, and the moment is finally hitting her as she says I made a mistake and he says, then you need to make it right, and she goes, no, I mean talking to you. I want a lawyer, duh, listen to your friends. But maybe she wanted to fuck him even here, and that's why she was like, I'll

I'm rerunning it.

I did not make a dis mistake or taint any evidence. I don't know how, but this is Olivia's DNA on that knife. She turns around and leaves as her curls bounce. And now we're in prison and we have Tregor Trevor Langen and Kara always likes to mention that he's the personal laundry guy. But who's buying personal? Is it a cheaper option? Like why would you buy? Or is it for better clothes? Is it more expensive? I think it's cheaper, I.

Think than tied. I don't know. I don't know what's a great question. Are they new on the market? Maybe?

Are they like a classic brand? Like I just wonder who's her great question? I don't know what the personal vibe is? Yeah, because we know it because of Trevor. But you know, so she insults him and is like, gross, don't talk to me, I wouldn't want to leave one of your scale clients waiting.

And he's like, you're the scale client. It's you.

What's a scale client? I don't know, Oh, probably gross or something.

Yeah.

She says, I can't afford you, and he says that his retainer has already been paid by some concerned friends. So she does have people in her life.

Iab.

She says, it won't be your usual smoke and mirror's case. This will be the truth. And he's like, I'm just here to say hi and go to arrayment and explain what's up.

She goes, I know what arrangment is.

So we're an arrayment and she's charged murder too, and the judge asks, how do you plead? She says not guilty, and then we hear the voice yell out guilty and it's a bunch of bikers hanging out and the judge is not happy and says, anyone do s somethingate that again and it's contempt and then he goes capeche and I haven't heard that in a while, so I love that. Okay, So now we talk bail remander ro r, what will we do? The judge sets bail at two hundred and

Who? For what?

Like, tell us what's up? How'd you get the blood? And he's like, I just followed her for a client, that's all. And they're like who who? Who?

Tell us? And he's groaning.

So Stabler hits him and he said, bikers took his file. But the name is Brady Harrison and Stabler recognizes that name. They put him away six or seven years ago for a string of date rapes, the rypnahal how do you say real hypnol? It's the ra hypnol rapist. Craigan remembers him too, So he got out in April. Okay, so now we're finally getting somewhere, and his stay in prison

Nobody answers.

They take their guns out and they see Bowman who's a young detective with a side part and a low bun, and she found a body of a dog in the back.

Throat was slip. No sign of Brady though, Jesus.

So they go to the Death Knights clubhouse raid time and Phil the ls kiss the ground t Bone and they asked for Brady Hare and the og okay, So this is when I realized that the undercover guy and the guy who loves pool are not the same people. And then t Bones another guy was straight hair, so he says they don't have a member by that name. They go, sure, but you have his address from a beat down in Jersey. He asks for a lawyer asap. So then he turns to the undercover guy and goes,

Stabler size, where could he be?

So we cut to Livy on the phone being pissed about a protective detail always but there's a cop car below, and Saylor says, until we find this guy, we got to watch your ass. His financials just came in and Munch is like, guess who guys Mercedes to get a dent taken out? So Frick and Frack are like, yeah, we have the proof and stay like you know, jury's

What restaurant manager would allow this?

I know, like you could just come and steal people's forks after they a and like where are the bus boys? It would have been gone anywhere I heard the bus boys would have been on it. So Stabler is still being a dick to Melinda, and Melinda gets spicy right back to him and is like, bitch, I've been working hard on this blood case. And so what she did was she found an anomaly normal DNA. About eighty percent of the markers are methylated and live sample on the

So the service that this like.

Lab coat guy is like, oh, yeah, for sure, Like I'll take some blood and sequence the genome to find out what genetic time bounds. People are caring and Finn's like, no, I want to set someone up for murder. And he says no, I only do legal shit and never without proper references. And Finn is like, respect, I appreciate you taking precautions. But Brady isn't answering his phone and won't call me back, and I need someone set up for

And she's like, why didn't you report it?

And he's like, come on, they're in on it and you were in on it too, and she yells no, and he says, you couldn't stand that I had no remorse for what I did to those women, And she's like, who told you that? And he screams, you did. Don't you remember? A pretty boy like you is going to be real popular in prison. Maybe when you're raped, you'll understand what you put those women through. She, of course, is like, I'm sorry. I should have never said that, even if it was just to scare you, I should

Stabler runs in right after that.

She's okay and says, I think I'm finally getting over this damn flu. And he says, good, you got to meet the guy who helps him set you up. So she breathes in relief, and then Benson and Stabler walk in together and to invest into interrogation. So the Labkokai is in there and they ask him, like, how many other people did you set up for this? And he's like, oh, there's no law against what I did. And they're like, honey, you helped frame someone for murder. That's a bad thing.

It's a brand new market. And Benson is like, do you get this?

And Stabler taps in to say, everybody is going to say their DNA is cooked up in some lab. But also, Melinda did eventually find the difference, so like, you know, we can't we can't expect everyone to be as good as Melinda her job, but like there are anomalies, So I guess this is really fucked up and is gonna like fuck up investigations. But also like why were the other med texts that good? But I guess Melinda had to do it for a while. I'm not sure so, And I'm like, I can't wait to read about the

I'm so scared.

It's so easy, he says, And any bio undergrad can do it. It's a whole new world. That's fun, a whole new world, he laughs, and they're really disturbed by him, and then he then says, guess your free ride is over.

It's like the free ride of like the only medically like perfectly accurate thing.

We have to like get bad people or like get you.

Thought it was like a free ride, like sucks for you, cops. Now you're gonna like it's a free ride. I don't know whatever. So we're done. This is done. I'm done. I need to hear about this real case. Because I'm serified.

Okay, everybody, enjoy our commercials and we'll be right back.

Okay, we are back.

So this episode draws inspo from a few real life groups, people situations, so I'll get into all of them. The first one is obviously the biker gang angle. Okay, I wanted to just talk a little bit about the big four criminal biker gangs. And I know a lot of this is from Sons of Anarchy because I watched Sons of Anarchy, so I knew some of this to begin with, but it was interesting to look into, like actually how

So they've all got their little parts of the market, I guess.

And my question, are these like white like are these mostly white gangs?

Like?

There are the Bandidos Latino? I don't know.

I would assume that the Bandidos have a Latino thing, but they're actually I'll get into it. They're all over the world, so it's not just like white people. But I would say primarily, yeah.

I guess I just assume bikers are like in the KKK, like I don't know why, but I feel like there's an overlap.

Mabe, well, there is, there is white but then like Danny Pino is in the is in the the like oh my god, offshoot, what am I trying to say? Spin off of Sons of Anarchy that's called the Mayans. It's about like a Mexican bike gang. So definitely there are bikangs that are not just white guys. But I would say when you think of Hell's Angels, you think of like white guys with big beards, and that's like what a lot of them are. But so The Mayans is not a show about ancient Mayan sooll.

Good. Now, well, if Danny Pino ever did this fucking podcast, we would know more.

I would know more about the fucking Mayans.

So all four of these gangs are at war with one another and they have murdered one another, so they are you know, it's not like all kumbaya, Let's live and let live.

Like they all want to hate.

They all hate each other because they're probably all going in on each other's business, like you're trying to, at least in Sons of anarchy. It's like these guys are trying to push in on our guns. These guys are trying to push in on our meth, like we can't have that, you know.

So the American.

Motorcycle Association said that motorcycle clubs that engage in crime and violence like this represent one percent of motorcycle clubs, and then the outlaw gangs love that and started calling themselves one percenters. And they claim that they've like always had the phrase one percent or that that's been their thing. So like you'll see motorcycle guys with like patches that say like one percent, and it's not about their economic standing. It's about the fact that they're part of the one

And in Sons of Anarchy.

There is a huge storyline where they're trying to get them on RICO charges.

And this is just a.

General overview of what motorcycle clubs are. If you want more information, there is a lot of I have links in my bio, in our in our not my bio, links in our show notes, and also tons of Anarchy

Are there any bad guys that are nice to women?

Like?

Are there just criminals and drug dealers that respect women anywhere, Like please, we got to watch.

Queen of the South where there woman is the drug dealer. Maybe that's the key.

Maybe it's just like, yeah, these bikers don't seem that bad. I love I love drugs. I you know, like where leather do charity work? Do you have to rape the women?

You know?

It's like yeah, they're just they're running like they run a lot of Like yeah, definitely in Sons of Anarchy there were like women hanging around that were just there for anyone to.

Have sex with, Like for sure.

I definitely I love that hot guy in it, and I love Married with Children.

Katie sigh, Katie sigal, Oh my god.

We want to watch it. I just can't watch that much violence against women.

J She has one of the most like truly has shaken me to my core sexual assaults committed on her in that show. Horrible, horrible, horrible. So any incredible actress. But yeah, she's an amazing actress. But yeah, it's a lot. But she also commits a lot of violence on that show as well.

So I'm impressed.

Besides the son, I'm really impressed that all three people, like the main people from Married with children, like had a career, took a break, and then killed it again.

Yeah, like that happened to again.

I don't know what's up with Bud, but funny, I don't need like all of them are just like have been successful for so long and I love to see that.

Sorry, let's go, let's go.

No.

I and I got to see Marcy the neighbor from next door at the Bros.

Premiere and I was gagged. I was like, you did you say? Yes?

I said hi to her and the coach from Glee. They're both in the movie and I love them. And I was like, you guys were great in the movie. And Marcy goes she's great in it, and I was like.

You're so great at it too. But I wanted to be like Marcy.

But I didn't want to get into my like full married with children like I was obsessed. Anyway, That's the end of my section on the motorcycle gangs. Just a little bit of background the next subject, the fake DNA thing is real. Okay, So a scientist named Dan Frumken wrote an article published in Forensic Science International in two thousand and nine alleging that it is possible to fake DNA.

He founded a company.

He's not the same as the guy in this episode, because what he did was he founded a company called Nucleix, which is in an Israel, which was created to test to identify fake samples. Okay, So he basically was like, this is.

Something people can do.

I figured out a way that we can figure out that they're not doing that. It's, you know, to disprove the fake DNA. So Israeli scientists, according to his paper, were able to fabricate blood and saliva samples containing DNA different from the donor. And they did this in exactly the way that they talk about on the show. They like spin out the white blood cells, like amplify the DNA, put it back in, and then it I.

Just imagine the white blood cells being like we.

My.

And they also showed that if they had access to a DNA profile in a database, they could construct a sample of DNA to match that profile without obtaining any tissue from that person. So Frumpkin told The New York Times, you can just engineer a crime scene.

Quote.

He said, any biology undergraduate could perform this wild and he said it could also be possible to get a sample of someone's DNA from a soda can or a cigarette turn it into a saliva sample which could then be submitted to ancestry dot com or anything like that, and celebrities would have to fear something called quote unquote genetic paparazzi, which is something that Gail H. Javitt of the Genetics and Public Policy Center at Johns Hopkins said,

And I get, well, how do we know?

I'm like I said, Melinda is above and beyond like most medical examiners like no, Tino Shaye, But like what if they.

Say, well, we have we have.

We have some listeners who are forensic girls and I mean guys too, but like get in touch with us, tell us, like are they now just testing to see if all the DNA is methylated?

Now?

Or eighty percent, like the way that Melinda did. Like, I don't know how they're really disproving it, but they are. It is not It does not seem like a thing that's happening all the time, you know. But the third case that this is supposedly drawn off of, this seems like a bit, a bit of a bigger stretch, But I wanted to talk about it anyway, because it's an

Later, so that's what happened.

In seventy nine, he became the director of the strology department, and he worked with the WVU State Police till nineteen eighty nine, So a decade turns out he got the job in the zerology apartment department completely by falsifying his credentials, which conveniently no one checked. It was like the seventies. He said he minored in chemistry. He actually had only taken a few chem classes and had either failed them

How did the FBI get involved in this? Yes, I don't know. I don't know.

Maybe like they got notified someone was crushing it. Maybe they wanted to hire him for the FBI because he was so good at it, and then they realized he was fake.

Maybe also, like some of these cases did get tossed up to the FBI, because like I'm gonna talk about a specific case in a second, so it's possible maybe that was the case. That got them like turned onto him and his false bullshit. But then in another incident, two coworkers claim to have seen him record blood records from a blank test plate, and like, none of these complaints were taken seriously because it was known that the

But why would you just take Zaane's side.

It's so I don't know, but you know, you hear about this all the time, fake it till you make it.

Like guys just charming their way through jobs like this.

Maybe he had a good personality, I don't know, but the prosecutors loved him because he was like getting cases done because he was fucking falsifying everything. So it's like whatever they needed, he made it happen, you know, like

Not going forward, but like.

In looking back at the cases he got fired in Texas, as soon as they heard about the West Virginia ship. But of course they're going to check out what he's been doing there, and in their investigation into his misconduct, he may have resulted in one hundred and eighty were wrongful convictions in Bexter County. So the Texas investigation found a lot of instances of him filing reports on tests that had never been done, reporting negative results as positive,

What the fuck? I know, crazy?

And so many people complained and THEBI told you there was issues.

Ted Bundy's girlfriend called the police three times instead, I think it's my boyfriend, you know, like the cops just like I mean, different bureaucracies just don't listen.

I don't know this is well. I just someone posted.

A video on Instagram of like how men's confidence when they enter the workforce is super high and then decreases over time, and women starts out really low and goes higher and that at age forty, men and women's confidences intersect, and the woman's saying this was just like and I don't know where the men get the confidence since they've never done the job, but they just still feel good, and like what at a fucking example of just like yeah, and like you know that this guy just liked being

You know he probably just was like, yes, like being I like testifying, I like closing cases. I love that the prosecutors think that I'm their guy for like closing tough cases when it's like you're just and in his mind, he's probably like these guys did it. I'm just helping push it along, you know. Well, it's like.

That drug scandal documentary where one was like an addict fucking up and stealing pills, but the other one she liked being in with the cops.

She liked being in with the prosecution.

Like she was like, Oh, we're a team, and that's why she falsified shit.

She wanted to be with it.

It's like weird power trips people go on and they don't care about like just wrecking people's lives because I guess they assume that they're criminals about.

Fuck anyone that hired him, Fuck anyone.

And like, our friend works at not a big thing, but I'm I'm thinking about the guy that works with her that's ruining everyone's life for years now and doesn't do anything, gets away with it. No one will fire him because the male bosses are also like, he's fine until it reaches critical. Yeah, like the worst thing ever. And thank god those steaks aren't as high as this, but it's like it's fucking nuts. Oh this is nuts. Wow, thank you for telling us all those things.

No worries.

I am really excited for our guests though, So let's shake off the fake DNA and get ready to talk to her.

Okay, our actor guest.

Today is not only an actor, but a cook and a Hooter's enthusiast. You know her best from her role as Leeann Taylor on Orange is the New Black Baby, but she's also been in a bunch of episodes of SVU, including today's where you Knew her as the Biker Mama Starla. Guys, please enjoy our chat with Emma Miles.

Hi.

I believe that happy.

Yeah, it was so nice to me, you guys, Oh my god.

We love talking to an SVU like multiple timer, you know.

Three I did so exciting well.

And also on your like Orange wiki, it says that you met Dasha Polanco before you guys started shooting Orange in an audition for Lawn Order SVU.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was in the It was in the waiting room and we weren't auditioning for the same part. But she went in before me, and then I went in a little bit later, and then we didn't see each other, and I'd never you.

Know, I didn't I'd never met her before.

So I was just like to do and I was on the subway platform and I was like going home on the D train because they lived in Bay Ridge at the time, so it's like transferring to an R at Sunset Park and she lived in Sunset Park two. So she got on the D train and she was like, Hey, were you just in that SPU audition And I.

Was like yeah, And so we like sat next to each other and we talked the entire way to Brooklyn, and we like exchanged numbers, and we were both just like having a really hard time with the business and everything was just like.

Really tough for both of us, and we were just like, uh.

And I was like planning on moving back to California after being in New York for twelve years at this point. This was twenty twelve, and and she was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna go like back to nursing, Like I don't really know what I'm doing.

I'm I feel really crazy right now. And I was like, oh my god, me too.

Same.

So we exchanged numbers and then like my life got like absolutely insane, like I went through a fire. It was just placed for my house. I was like definitely moving back to California. It was like there was it was the most extreme Saturn return ever. And so I kind of like forgot about it and then like I booked Orange and the first day I was on set, I was at Crafty and I walked over and she turned around and we were like, oh my god, and uh, you know, the rest is history.

It was love.

Did either of you get the part on SVU that you were auditioning for? No, you know what all those problems led to Orange? You know, it's like it was meant to be your first episode that you did.

Was this one or Haunted? Which one was first?

Haunted?

Haunted was first?

Yeah, and then so then what did they bring you back as Starla just like they remembered you? Or like did you have to audition again or what happened? No?

I had to audition again, guys. I mean for Haunted. That was actually the first job I ever had. Like that job got my sad guard. So so yeah, that was like and that was like my first real audition, like out of acting school. It was like I was trying to to impress the agency I was at at the time, and they like didn't they didn't want to sign me, but they wanted to freelance with me. And I was like, oh yeah, you're like gu and it was I was like having such a weird situation because

Gross and awful.

And then I booked the job, and then the agency signed me, and I was like whoa.

And I got my sad card and I was like whoa, But no.

I had the Carmacks burn.

Yeah, the Menthol does.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's like it's like putting peppermint all over your eye. It's just it's awful. It's trash. It's great for your lips, which trash for rivals. But but yeah, I mean the way that the way that that casting office works is if they like you, they they'll bring you in as much as they they think.

You're right for whatever parts they have available.

But but if you book something, there's like a rule where you can't you can't.

Come back for like another couple of years.

Yeah.

So there was like a four year period between when I did my first episode of SVU and then when I booked Starla.

But I was really stoked when I booked Starlak because I was like, I get to work with Christmas money.

Yeah yea ellas.

And I'm a huge, wet hot American summer fan me too, So it was just like it was really a special time.

Did he meet your expectations when you met him?

Like, do you have any memories from that?

Yes?

I mean there was a he I worked with him my second day of filming, But there was like a period of time in between my first day and my second day because on my first day I got injured and I had to go.

To the hospital.

Wait what happened? What?

So?

Okay?

So you know how there's that scene in the very like the teaser the beginning, where there's like me on the table and like people are like spraying champagne.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we had been we shot that first. That was my first day and it was it was a night shoot, but we started a little bit earlier and we'd like blacked out all the windows whatever. So we had kind of run through it a bunch of times, and we were getting ready to shoot, so they were like setting up the lights and they wanted to do a test with the with like the props and the water, but

They gave him kind of the idea of like what was going to happen, and we went through.

Our lines, which my lines were like ah.

Like in a created.

And he was really nice, and we wanted to he wanted to practice the sleeperhole, or not the sleeperhole, but putting me over his shoulder. So he throws me over his shoulder and everything's cool and we walk out of frame. Now they neglected to tell him or myself that that

But we start shooting. Everyone's like spraying me with stuff.

And there's like a hose with water that's coming down and it's you know, I'm wet.

And I'm wearing this.

I had like brown hair color in because they wanted me to have brown hair, and they cast me and they were like, they never asked me to dye my hair.

So I showed up on set and I was like blonde and they were like, oh shit.

So they had to go to like, I don't know, some somewhere you get like hair stuff, and it was like.

They just give you a wig.

I don't know, you know, good question, very good question. But they put this.

Like moose stuff in my hair that made my hair a dark brown color. So the second it gets wet, it's like dripping all over me and just like everything's in my eyes, can't see anything. Everything's just like Okay, I'm putting all of my trust in this guy, and it's gonna be easy. Like it's gonna be an easy night. It's not a really long scene. I'm just gonna get a little wet.

It'll be fine.

Like it's cool. So the guy comes over.

To the table, the pool table, which I'm on, and we do we do the hold. He throws me over and he starts to walk out of frame and he trips on the hooks and as he is like, he's he's trying to not drop me. He's like trying to keep his balance but also not drop me. So okay, like let me see if I can kind of okay. So here's here's like the table, here's me, here's the guy. He's like, oh no, and I'm like on his back, just being like.

I feel like my equilibrium is kind of hot. So he's like try to keep his balance, trying to keep his balance. Here's a brick wall.

As he's trying to keep his balance, he actually throws me into the brick wall like back because I'm I'm over his shoulders, which would not have been that bad, but there was a like a light socket protruding off of the wall, and that's what my back hit. Oh no, and I heard something crap and they yelled cut and everyone, and.

I was like on the ground and everyone was like, girl, I call it ambulance call.

And shit, yeah, I'm I mean I was a competitive gymnast as a kid, so.

I'm like, I'm tough. I could do this.

Yeah, but I was I was hurting. I was hurting, and they were not interested in trying it again because they didn't want to do that.

Everyone was like, sign this, sign this.

I was with my agent at the time, my manager, and and they basically had to send me to the hospital. I didn't go that night, but they made me go the next day. I was like, I'm fine. I'm not fine.

I couldn't like lift anything.

It was just like did you have like how long did it hurt? How was it filming the rest of it?

It hurt for like a good week. It hurt for a good week.

So like, is the scene that we saw, like that one take before you got your back like fucked up.

Or in the teaserts.

So that's it.

Yeah, that's it. That was it cut.

We're not going back to it.

And then and they felt really bad. So when I came back, they gave me Bead Wong's dressing.

Room, which like they're like please don't sue us, Please don't sue us.

Yeah, I mean I got I got that sense.

I got that sense, and I guess something had happened like weeks prior that was like kind of a big deal in terms of that kind of stuff, which I didn't realize after the fact, so I could tell like everyone was had their senses heightened about that kind of situation.

But but yeah, because then your next scene with Maloney, you're kind of running and falling too.

Yeah, I know, I know. So I had to do that with an injury, and.

Then you have to like wrestle that jacket off and it feels like you're like, oh, this monkey suit, but like maybe it's because you're really like get this off from me.

I sanjur It was, no, he was.

He was funny when we when we got because I didn't meet him until we actually got to set, and he was like, I heard you got your ass kicked last week, and I was like yeah, yeah, and of course, you know, like I was nervous, but like you know, we started talking about what hot American summer and I was just like, you should come out with your with a line of cologne called food to Maloney. And it could be like served in like a soup can, which he thought it was really funny.

I was just trying to make him laugh.

I love it. That's so funny.

So like so like in Haunted you're this metho addict, and in This you're like a biker girlfriend. In in or in Orange, you're also like this methy kind of racist, and then in American Dream and Sanctuary you're kind of like a.

Well, how do you get typecast?

Is like this because you look like a really normal person thing, but you keep playing racists.

I think studios and uh, people who run shows have an idea of what audience members think of as what a racist looks like or what a meth addict looks like as far as the meth and and like you know, stereotypes, but like some of it's not wrong as far as the myth goes. Like the second you paint my teeth like it's it's I'm on there, you put the brown stuff on my teeth, and I'm just like.

You know, it's just it's.

Not it's not that difficult to see me as like take all the makeup off my face and put brown stuff on my teeth and I will look like a methatic.

That is, I think that's just genetic.

Funny.

On that show too, you got you and your friend Angie, I feel were a little bit of a comedic racist method duo.

But yeah, we didn't realize how racist we were going to be until like later on, and they made it's like really racist, and we were like, there's not we can't really come back from this, but like you know, there's no way we can kind of redeem ourselves. All we can do is just like amp up the comedy and make them like funny.

Right, you killed it? Oh my god, Yeah, thank you.

Because I remember you guys being like frickin' frack a little bit, even though, like you know, the undercurrent of crime.

But yeah, and then the third time I got to be on SVU, I got to work with.

Murushka, so amazing, my fingerguns, I'm Kelly.

And Pok and Scannfino.

So did you any stories with the three of them? Are just excitement since you're a fan of the show.

I mean, Marishka and I became really friendly after that, and she like invited me to a handful of things, and she introduced me to Harry Connick, Junior, which was like one of the coolest thing ever. I'm such a hardcore Harry Conic Junior fan and like I love Hope Floats, So I'm just I'm that bitch.

I love that movie and I love him.

And and she was like, She's like, this is my friend, Emma, She's dope.

And I was like, I was like, oh my god, mah just called me dope in front of Harry Conic Junior.

Whoa wow.

I'm like, and this is you know, I'm like, I'm such a fan. I'm like almost forty years old, just like.

An idiot.

Yeah, I'm a married woman, and I'm just like melting into a punnel.

I know.

I feel if we ever get to have Maurushika on this podcast, like my first question is how do you deal with everyone being obsessed and in love in an awe of you at all times?

Like, yeah, how do you function?

Because everyone we talked to Gusha's about her in this way where it's like she's truly an angel from you know, how did that drop down?

I did? I called her a unicorn. I called her a unicorn.

In like a post and she texted me and she was like, I don't really understand the unicorn thing, but like I love it. And then she texted me back like a few days later, she was like I get it.

I get it. I understand how I understand.

And I was like, it's like you're this majestic creature that no one knows where you came from or like how long you're gonna be here, but we just worship you in your mag.

And she's such like calm down, but no, she's like she's It's.

Like there's like people that obviously people love Jennifer Aniston, people love you know, whoever. They love a lot of people, but like the way people talk about her, it's like another level. They're like she's so professional but also warm and like helps you get where you need to go in the scene, and then off camera invite like sends

Yeah, I know, I mean I think for for for like what like who she is as like a status symbol. It's like shocking that she's as approachable as she is. But she she's just like a really lovely, wonderful, caring person, and she cares about the work that she does. It's very meaningful to her. Cares about every single person. Behind the scenes. She's always like if someone has something going on, like she's always making sure that everyone is taking care

Is the Mama Bear.

Yeah, it's just.

I'm grateful every second I got to spend in her presence.

That's so cool.

What what are you up to these days? I was looking at your Instagram. You have this like kitchen series, like the Triggered Kitchen Series. I don't know if you want to tell us a little bit about that or like other projects you have going on.

Yeah, I mean that's I'm I'm in the process of writing a book.

That's kind of based in my trigger my kitchen series.

My whole backstory is that, like I've dealt with disordered eating for my whole wife and and I had been in recovery when I was like a teenager and I thought it was gone. I was like, Okay, cool, cool cool, And then like life kind of happens, and during like right before the pandemic, it kind of started to like eke back in for X, Y and Z reasons. And then when the pandemic happened, it was just like an insane relapse and I almost didn't make it out of it.

But but yeah, I just started.

I just started like shooting them, and I have two phones, so I would do a setup where I would have like one be a close up and one be like an.

Overhead, and I just like taught myself how to.

Edit damn and and then you know the captions, the like stupid punny captions like calling Shallots Timothy shallat May and calling Garlic Bob Garley. Like that's that's the stuff that people tend to really, they're like, yeah, so it's just it's fun, it's fun, and it's it's it's helpful to people. I started, Yeah, I started with the idea of like today, I was triggered by hard pants, but

That's so great, And I'm sure you're actually helping a lot of people who have similar situations, you know.

Yeah, I hope so well.

I loved your bride spread. I'm really into weddings. I did find it. I did read all of it. I did look at every picture. I loved the Hooters. I loved the concept. I liked the like floral with the city. That's kind of my dream because I love flowers and green. But like New York City skyline to me, is the most beautiful thing.

It is it is.

I don't know, I really don't know how we got so lucky first with Hooters.

Wait, I'm like, I'm going, I mean, like the long story short, like so, I'm I used to go to a lot of Liberty games, New York Liberty when they used to play at MSG the w NBA, and I would go with a handful of my friends.

One of them Seleene c Robinson, being a writer and producer, passed on I'm on SVU.

That's how I met her. I met her through Marishka, so she's she's.

A really really good friend of mine and her now wife is also a really good friend of mine.

And we would all go.

To Hooters afterwards after the games because it was like, you know, right down the street, and Leo was, actually, she'll be pissed if I don't mention this. Leo was the person who introduced me to Hooters, but we also started to go without her.

When she wouldn't come to WNBA games.

So we started this thing called Dream Chicken Team, which was like five of us, and we would be like.

Are we doing Dream Chicken Team after the game?

Like cool whoo.

And then when I when I was setting everything up for the wedding, I as someone had mentioned, they were like, oh my god, you know it would be funny, like you should totally have Hooters, and I was like, I totally should have Hooters, and so I tweeted them.

I was like, I was like.

Hey, you think Hooters would do partial catering for my wedding? And within I swear to God, like a minute and a half. They were in my inbox. They were like, let's do it, and I was like, I was like.

Oh my god, it's amazing.

When did you get married? How long ago was this?

It was August third, twenty nineteen. Okay, so before the pandemic.

Praise Jesus.

These pictures are gorgeous. You look so pretty.

These are really cool And now I'm getting I just scrolled to the Hooters girls.

I got them. This looks great and I.

Love this group photo where it's all just women with the Hooters girls. Oh wait, there's one man in it, and I see one man in the back, but like everybody else's women.

This is awesome.

Yeah, I mean like a lot.

There were a lot of cast members that were there, and it was so just having It was so funny too, because they were just like, this is the.

Best wedding we've ever been to, and we were like party. So they stayed and they partied with us for like the rest of the night.

So cool.

Wait, as a fan of SVU, I do have to know, are there any episodes we like to say that like sticking your head is haunting or just like favorite episodes when you hit up USA in a hotel room.

You're like, oh, I'm glad it's the one.

I mean, there's there's probably like too many to count, but Leah and I have a running joke with the episode with one of Elizabeth Mitchell's episodes, but anytime Elizabeth Mitchell is anywhere near Svo, I'm just like, yeah, bring it by, please, Yeah, but not not the baby and the cooler one, the one where she's like been molested by.

Your mother, Oh, the totem Yes, and.

Jeremy Irons is the therapist and Lea. Yeah, always like taunt each other.

Because we're always just like and then she took the wooden spoon, so anytime we see like a wooden spoon, we like take your picture and like send it to each other and just go like oh.

And then obviously like Luscious Grapes is just.

Oh, yeah, our first episode we ever did on our podcast, Bully.

Why wouldn't it be? It's best.

I love that you have these inside jokes and little moments that makes me so happy about us for you.

Yeah, I feel like like SEU fandom is its own language.

Yeah, the fans are deep and well we're desensitized too, because I'll be watching like sex and the City or something with a friend and be like, oh, he was in this episode where he did this and that happened and then this and they're like that's fucking dark, like wire. Yeah, they're like shocked at how chill we discussed such gruesome.

Yeah, we are to say.

I mean, like I know, I can't I can't decide whether it's a good or a bad thing, but it is a thing.

Yeah, it's it gives us comfort. It gives us comfort.

Yeah, I think it's well.

I also think it's a way for particularly women to like kind of have control over that kind of dialogue as opposed to it being like thrown at them in a way, yeah, victimizes them. It's like we get to be like no, we love s FO and like we know all about this ship.

Yeah, totally.

I think it gives women control in a world where they feel there's no control.

Yeah, And that's why Marishia is such like a pinnacle of society because we all we all just see her like making making shit good.

And the fantasy of a cop that actually cares. I mean like she goes after purpose. When people are like I don't want to press charges, She's like I still do. You're like, the cops would never do this. But okay, Emma, this was so fun. Thank you so much for taking the time.

To talk to us, Big, You're so cool.

Obsessed with em I feel like the Oranges and New Black Girls are like Pokemon for us, Like I want to catch it.

I know, we gotta catch them all. I love them, They're all like I love when USA does. Orange is the New Black SVU is the New Black Marathon or whatever they fucking do. But so many of these talented ladies have been on both shows and it's so fun and yeah, this was great. It was great chatting with her and loved hearing about her Hooter's wedding. And check

Reading a recipe follow along. But what about this episode.

Perverted a truly wild like this episode. I think it's truly so funny that there have been multiple episodes where men that Olivia Benson has put in jail have launched like like serial killer esque plots to get her back or frame her or like send her a message. Like she really gets on these guys, fucking under their skin.

And it's really funny to me that the show keeps doing this. But yeah, we.

Definitely confused the two episodes. It's like the guy from Weeds and then this one, and they're both. Yeah, just like revenge tales of people getting you know, hurt.

If we just did it at a live show. What is it fucking called?

I can't remember, but this I mean, but I liked the biker vibe.

I like that the comedy in this episode was great. I feel like she really had a spark, was stabler, and it was nice to hear that.

Yeah, they did have that spark.

I think what we're learning is science is bad, don't go to school, don't twist DNA.

Science is great until it goes too far like now.

But I will say, like I said, I think I said this at the end of my thing, but like I relooked up that company.

Again recently, and like they're not doing that anymore.

So maybe there just like wasn't enough of a market for people trying to you know, frame people, so they stopped doing it, or maybe they couldn't get they were in Israel and the United States, but I'm sure the US would be like, you can't do this.

Stop.

Yeah, it's like black market stuff, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe my imagine a black market like kit that's like how to frame uh well, it's like in Breaking Bad where that giant like German company, the guy was actually like a big metha dealer, you know.

Yeah, do you remember that part? No, such a good show.

I love that as good as Euphoria, but pretty good. Now, I'm it's totally different, totally different. Also, we rape isn't funny in prison, and stop threatening men and people with rape in prison.

It's like not fodder for fear. It's And I.

Realized that the show stopped doing that as well, because they used to do that like every episode, like they're gonna love you in County lock up or whatever, you know, like they would always make little comments about that, and I feel like they've stopped that, which is thank god. But yeah, we've we've we've pointed out before other organization organizations that are working to stop end prison rape.

So but this week, should we just go into what would Sister Peg do?

Yes, I did want to say another thing, I learned that biker gangs are mostly just leather drag, and I'm not gonna see it. It's so embarrassing. I don't understand. Like drags actually not embarrassing, but like tough armor, it's just like so goofy. I just wish these gangs would realize how funny they are.

Maybe they should get feeder the this.

I hate to once again bring up sons of anarchy, but when you look at sons of anarchy, it's like it's the same reason guys join fraternities, it's the same reason guys join gangs. Like it's the same vibe. It's like we're protecting our community. We are a band of loyal to each other people. We also like deal meth and like you know, kind of true women as objects.

Like it's nuts.

I would love it if we had somebody that listens to our podcast, it's like I'm actually in an outlagging and that's there about.

But I don't think we're gonna have that happen.

But I wanted to move on to to what would Sister Peg Do? And listen, guys, it's hard for me to always find an organization that fits in perfectly with what we talked about today. As I said, we had an organization a few weeks ago that I could call out again, which is called Just Attention dot org about

On their website, it says definitely doing this. Yeah, you can.

Go on and it'll literally just say what one kid specifically wants. You can give a more general gift, or you can just fulfill what one kid specifically wants.

I'm doing it. I'm doing it this here.

I love this so because it's like I was trying to look up sort of like you know, sponsor of family programs and stuff like that, but a lot of that is local to your area. I would definitely say go out and try to find those. But this is like a company, an organization that works nationwide, So any of you guys can go to their website and do it as easy or complicated as you want. You could fulfill a bunch of wishes up to what you could afford. You could just give general money to them. And so yeah,

I will definitely be doing one simple wish one hundred percent. And next week please join us for another unhinged wild episode of SVU Zebras Season ten, episode twenty two. We're obsessed with all of you. See you soon, Thie. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot.

Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.

At glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien.

And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to.

Our executive producers Georgia

Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly Right Media, Dun Dun