Perfect w/ Kimberly J. Brown

Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done done.

Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up NSVU podcast. I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. Hello, thanks for joining us. We're going to talk SVU. We're going to talk crime, and then we're going to have an incredible guest that I think you guys.

Will flip out over.

And now we have some announcements, some chats, some updates, some gossip.

We can't wait. You know, we're on tour. Do you know this?

I ran into someone in my neighborhood. They had no idea we were performing in Los Angeles.

Hello, that's crazy, you guys.

If you're not following us on Instagram, it is really where we put a lot of fun content about the pod and we try to add extra little fun bits and bobs there for you too.

But we're pod. Yeah, and if you're on Twitter, I'm sorry, we don't care. Yeah, we don't put as much on Twitter. No, we don't put us on Twitter.

But there's not as many of you following us on Twitter either, so like but follow us on Instagram. We do try to Lisa plays really fun games in the stories, little polls. We're always trying to make it fun on there. But it's also where we're talking a lot about our tour. Thank you so much to those of you that have already bought tickets. We have sold out a couple of our shows in Seattle, but we are, you know, possibly have something else in the works there, so stay tuned.

You can go too.

That's messed up live dot com for all of our tour dates and ticket links and yeah, we obviously want to come all over the country and these shows show.

Yeah, you want to come all over the country? Is that it? You sick buck? Come get this count You're never going to get that.

You have to experience this magic in person, So come to our shows and these tour dates. Doing well is important to getting us to your city. So if you have friends that live in these other cities like Tempe, San Diego, Irvine, you know, Denver, please tell your friends and please come see us, because we're dying to meet all you guys and talk murder.

And speaking of meeting people, I did meet someone at the Kennedy Center. I was there performing for a nice, you know, little festival moment.

I don't know what it was, but it.

Was for Women's Month, and I met someone that was working at the Kennedy Center and they let me know that the Margaret Chose story of Richard Belzer's dogs being run all over without any leashes at the Kennedy Center is true and it is folklore there, and that the dogs are like running into the elevators alone and like doing whatever they wanted. And so we got confirmation gossip on Belzer's dogs at the Kennedy Center.

So I love that had to share. I love that.

We also posted on our Instagram another reason for our Instagram follow We also posted recently, an eagle eyed listener sent us a video of Munch answering the phone with a delicate tattoo of the word love scripted on his wrist.

That's what it said, right, love.

It said love. But I didn't think it was that delicate. It was pretty thick, pretty.

So thick, but like in script.

I guess that delicateness I meant is like script, like in like a very feminine like cursive like. Yeah. Listener points it out that the tattoo looks like Louise's keychain from Sex and the City too. You know she has that like love keychain. It's just I thought it was a shock for Munch, and people were sending us a lot of skeleton emojis. They were very Everyone was overwhelmed that Munch has a I mean, he also seems like such a like observant jew.

Do you know what I mean? You like to be have a tattoo? It's interesting.

Oh, by the way, do you remember when me, you and another friend went to a pool at a Kimpton hotel and got wasted in the daytime. You had like just had rosie and there was a DJ and she was incredible. Yes, So she's going to be at South by Anna in New York when I'm in both places. Oh, I messaged her and then uh, yeah, I'm really really excited.

She was such a good DJ and she was so great. Maybe we were just blacked out, but I I know I was on.

Ring a Tom Collins kick that I think I had like six Tom Collins And then I remember I paid the bill before I left, because I left you guys there and you texted me and you were like like the next day you're like, did you pay the bill or did we just run out on the check.

Don't worry.

Well, that was like a fun moment for us because we ordered or we reserved a cabana or whatever, but then also a side lounger and we weren't using it, but anyone that wanted to use it, we would not let them because we had.

Paid for it. So I just put like a beach cover up on it and was like, we're using it, we're using it. One of us might want to lie down in a minute. Yeah, it was such assholes.

But the opposite of assholes is sweet, beautiful people, which is most of you guys who have been amazing and sent us so many donations to the RASM organization that we shouted out on our Instagram to help people in the Ukraine.

We are like overwhelmed by how much.

You guys, we raised so much money to send over there, and I'm sure more people donated. We just only got receipts from people who spent fifty or more. But if you gave even four dollars a dollar, like that's still a great donation, and like any I think any bit helps.

So you guys are the Yeah, no, we have such good listeners, and yeah, it is very good. And it's like it's just fucked m because now thinking about like let's say, God, will you know whatever after like these people are the airports are fucking demolished, schools, hospitals, like infrastructure to the extreme, it's like a really.

Terrifying thing to see.

Yeah, no, absolutely, And I mean I've been reading stuff that makes me hopeful that like Putin's in a corner and he feels and he's like he's failing and all this stuff, and I'm.

Like, yeah, but a narcissist in a corner that's scary. Yeah, it's not good.

That's what I was gonna say, Like, you wonder what he's gonna do to double down.

So I'm gonna switch it up so we're not saying.

Well, then I watched a video of a young girl and a bunker with all the people in the building and their pack like sardines, and then she's saying let it go from Frozen in Ukrainian and I think was it you that were like, why would you watch that?

Yeah?

I don't know. I was like, there's no rack I can watch that. I can't. It was really sweet, but yeah, it was. Wait.

Can I ask a stupid question? Is there is the Ukrainian language different than Russian?

Yeah?

Okay, I didn't know that. Yeah, how different is it? Do you understand any of it when you hear Ukrainian.

With context clues?

I could understand it, but I need I usually need all the captions and stuff, but some of the spelling like I can decipher.

But yeah, it is a different language. Gotta just to switch gears.

My friend Eleanor Kerrigan is so funny at the comedy store she opens for Dice and she's just an old school funny girl from Philly and I love her so much.

But you know, I don't know if anyone knows this.

I've been crying about it, but I lost my leather jacket and no, I think this is the first announcement it's made to the pod. Yes, Lisa lost her leather jacket at LAX. I did receive a text right after it happened and was like, we're going to be dealing with the fallout from this.

For a while.

So I'm standing with Eleanor, my friend Sydney, and then Emily who works at the comedy store, and we're and I'm talking about this leather jacket and Emily goes, well, what brand is it? And I said River Island and she goes, I mean it's fine, you could get a better one. And I got laughed at so hard by Sydney and Eleanor because they saw how distraught I was. I was like in tears about this leather jacket and this woman is like, yeah, I think it's okay.

It was like fuck off.

So that Eldenor is actually like Andrew dice Clay is cleaning out his home, and so she goes, well, I have some dice jackets in my car.

Do you want to try him on?

So then I went into her trunk and I started trying on Andrew dice Clay's leather.

Jackets last night. Did you get to do one?

No?

They were you know, they were big and heavy, and really like he's a big guy. But then she also had Muhammad Ali's boxing gloves in the car, so then I started, I took. I had a little photo.

Shoot with boxing gloves just for my dad and they were in a case. But it was just like a funny trunk wow, silly thing.

But I got to wear his leather jackets. I thought that was funny.

But to get shaded said he was like, no, she called me in tears about this jacket and someone was just like, yeah.

That's not a good brand at all.

Yeah, okay, I know that brand, but I don't really know any good Like I have. My leather jacket is the only nice thing I own. And I like did research on where to get it. What brand is your leather jacket?

It's All Saints.

Oh yeah that's the best. Yeah, All Saints is good. But that's like a thousand dollars No, no, no, it was it was half that oh okay, And it was like it was like a purchase when I moved to LA because like the weather's so weird here, and I was like, this is gonna be a jacket.

I wear all the time, and I do.

Yeah, mine was like under three hundred dollars and everyone's like, just buy another one, but it's just more to it. Like like someone was like, why didn't you just get one right away?

In d C.

I'm like, a leather jacket is not like a quick yeah purchase.

It's like and I wear it every day?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think DC's got the leather goods you're looking for. No offense, DC, I just think you should look at like I really went around and like tried on a bunch of different ones, like cause I thought that was like like a big purchase.

You know it is, and it's something where every day did you get the did you text tricks see it?

No?

Not yet, but I will. Oh. So have you been watching Drag Race?

Yeah? Are you caught up? I just caught up last night, so I was an right boiler.

Yeah, the double save again, the two double saves. It's like, we're never going to get to the end of the season. Well, listen to this.

I'm talking to someone yesterday and caught justin Martindale. He yesterday goes, you know what it was ruin her head, went, I need eight girls for Snatch Game.

Yeah, but then do Snatch Game before that episode?

Then but that is like I wonder if she knew it was going to be a double save. No matter what, I think that cornbread leaving fucked up the whole schedule. So then they had that double save, and then they had they had they probably had like guests picked to come for Snatch game, and so they had to do eight.

But you're right, it's exactly like it has to be eight. Jasmin absolutely would have gone home third lip sync like she would have gone home.

I think, wow, Yeah, But they were both great, and I loved that they played with each other and usually don't to hear a motown hit, so that was like really exciting to hear.

Great. They were great.

I just feel like if it wasn't for the reason exactly that your friend is saying, like, then yeah, but I didn't even think about that.

That's what's embarrassing.

It's like we have worked in television, we do know television, and then I completely, I completely believe it. I'm like, oh my god, a double say you know, like I don't know why, because if they.

Moved the snap game, if they moved the night game up a week, it might have affected the guests and like a whole bunch of other shits, so I think they were just like whatever, we're doing it this way and other.

On the pit stop too, they were like, we do not think that was a double say, like, no one watching it thought it was that spectacular.

Yeah, but it was really good. I don't know, No, it was good. It was good. I just I get a little bit like h or when they bring people back sometimes I'm like, oh my god, we're going to be here forever.

I wonder if Katya is going to talk about what's happening with the war, Like I wonder what her I do too. I haven't heard Russian and left. Well, her favorite Russians performer Alla Polkachova has escaped Russia.

I read and is that the same singer who was positive for COVID that she talked about on her She had a singer she follows in Russia who they posted it. They posted their positive COVID test and Katya thought it was a pregnancy test, but then she had to translate the caption and was like, oh no, sorry, it's a COVID test.

She was like, oh, thirty nine, that's wonderful, you're pregnant.

Oh no, Alla Pokachhova is like in her sixties, like I used to see her as a child.

She truly is like this legend. But she's married to Galkin, who's a young, like thirty year old. Like she's married to a very young man who's obsessed with wow okay, and they love each other. But I read that they've escaped. Yeah, like the Jimmy Fallon of Russia spoke out his show got canceled immediately, like anyone that speaks out about it.

Their electricity has been cut.

No, and now China's backing it up too. China's getting rid of all of the of the pro Ukraine stuff that's there. So it's like, I don't know. The two of them together is what makes me nervous. China and Russia like linking up to fuck the world over is nerve wrecked.

But I feel like China does own us like we have. We're delusional to think that we're like America number one, Like oh, and let's fucking we probably have to do something positive for gay kid kids because the fucking Senate passed in Florida that don't say gay. Bill and Ali Krieger and Ashlyn Harris US women's soccer team players I saw their posts Baby Sloan and then it's like, wait, so their child's not gonna be able to say they have two moms in school?

Is illegal for her to be like, oh my two moms are coming. Like what I think, Just to be clear, I think that the kids can say whatever they want. The teachers are not allowed to talk to them about it. And it's K through three, So I'm hoping at least I think that that's fucking deplorable and horrible, but I'm hoping that at least that doesn't affect kids that are like in their early teen twins that might be seeking out a teacher for like help, coming out or something

I'm not trying to make light of that.

I'm just saying I when I read that, I was like, Okay, well, if I'm going to try to find any silver lining, it's that it doesn't affect older kids who are more likely. But you know, it's like dealing with sexual identity starts at a young age. We should be able to start talking to kids. I already tell Rosie at two, because she's very into the binarya who's a girl, who's a boy?

Well yeah, and then you become a forty year old idiot who can't remember to say they you know what I mean, yeah, like you got to teach him young, yes, but it's it's sad. I feel so sad, and I can't believe it passed. Because usually with bills that are that like deplorable, like you said, and like that shitty, I'm like, well, it won't pass. It's okay, they're just it's just in the news. It won't pass. The ACLU will get involved, and then it's like, wow, it passed, okay, fuck.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Because you whenever you like, especially drag race stuff, when they do the when they talk to their younger selves at the end, it's always like photos of them wearing heels as little kids. You know, it's them dressing up gender many super young. So it's just fucked up. Fuck Florida. Fuck Republicans?

Okay, how do we bring this up? How do we bring this up for the end? How do we dismount on a positive note? How do we dismount on a positive note? What have I seen in the world that has made me happy? I had funians yesterday.

I went to tap class again yesterday and I am bad? Are you bad? Are you bad? At tap? Listen?

I just like the first two classes, I was like, I'm okay, I'm doing okay, and then this third class, I'm like, I she just goes and then it's blah blah bah blah blah blah bah, And I go, I, what, like, you got to do that ten more times? But she doesn't do it ten more times? And I don't want to ask because now your class how hard it is? And drag race to learn corea. All I'm saying is I'm committed to get better, but I don't think you're gonna see me shuffling off to Buffalo anything.

Oh, speaking of dancing, this is something I wanted to talk about that I fully forgot.

So my friend JB.

Her daughter is at school dance age, and I saw a photo and it was her and all of her friends and little dresses all in sneakers.

I loved it.

I just love that girls go to dances now and sneakers and aren't like wearing heels and uncomfortable taking their heels off, and what am I gonna do?

Like what a nightmare we live through?

And I'm just yeah, dresses with sneakers Casey Musgraves style, Like think.

No party shoes were a nightmare growing up. We called them party shoes horrible. And I know I'm never gonna get rosy in any so I'm already planning, like the sneakers she's gonna wear as a flower girl like she Yeah, she's comfort all the way that girl you've seen her.

And I ran into Patty Harris, I mean, oh whatever, cool people want Independent Spirit Awards and it's like and we're there and it's just like fun. My friend Joyel's on the nominated for a Critics Choice Award. The award show is like, as we're recording like the next two days, so we'll know she's ill nominated for.

Her comedy special. Oh amazing and so so Firestone.

Yeah, but I was like busy when she sent me the photo of the dress she was wearing. And I just I forgot to respond, I'm living my life. And then she goes, so you hate the dress, huh, And I was like, no, no, no, I was just busy.

I was busy. I don't hate the dress like I love it. Yeah.

Check out Joyel Nicole Johnson's special on Peacock and Joe Firestone special on Peacock.

And now let's fucking and now you're bad the saying peacock twice? You per Oh, yeah, let's get going. You guys are gonna love today's episode.

Let's go okay, fantastic.

We're doing season four, episode twenty four.

It's called perfect, which I like. It is a classic.

And it starts with lights and sirens, cop cars zooming to a hip fast like you know fast and the furious style stop. It like spins around and uniform cops like run to the shop owner and the shop owner.

Goes, he robbed me, he robbed me.

So cops chase whatever into an alley's trying to find who robbed them.

They hear shots. Who what are the shots?

The shots are in the alley, All the cops are running, they're meeting up and they have apprehended like a gutter punk like skater guy. There's a beanie, you know. Was he hungry or drug addict, I'm not sure, but he made money for a new board, a new board. And then oh no, one of the cops says, check this out. And there's a shot young girl who is dead, laying by the trash can. And then we see Benson coming

And Benson loses it.

She does a sexy spinback turn and this is a perfect moment address her hairdoo. So it's kind of a mix between a twenties flapper, a homeschool bowl cut, and a boy band guy, but in a fresh cut, like a thick, chunky bang, very short. I would say twenties flapper is the closest.

Have we covered this hairdoo often? We've done another episode in season four, I think, But I don't know.

Or am I always surprised to talk about the hair no matter what, Like I'm for some reason, I was like, I don't think I've seen this one before, but I have for sure I have.

And wait, and speaking of looks, Tucker looks so much younger, but for so much some reason to me less handsome, Like I think he looks better older.

Yeah, he's a white hair man. That's what he's meant to be.

Yeah.

So Benson, you know, flips around and she goes all the times you people jammed us up, and now you want us to play nice. You got a set of balls asking us for anything.

Love that.

Stabler says, if we find out it's a cop, like the cop shot this girl, you want us to keep it quiet. And Tucker goes, no, no, no, do your job. However it turns out, it turns out we're not here to like no secrets. If you don't want to do it for me, that's fine, but you obviously want to do it for her. So you know our detectives are in. Now we meet CSU Captain Judith I was let's say

I don't know, leave me alone. It's like laser trajectory evidence.

So we find out the purp is the one who fired the shot that killed the sweet girl or a bit so, Like, I'm.

Sorry, if you're like running away from the cops in a robbery, what's going through your mind that you're like, I'm gonna fire some shots.

I'm gonna kill some cops. Like even if you can, you can go to.

Jail for robbery for not that long. Like I just don't get turning around and being like bang bang bank, like it's a shootout.

Well, I just don't know if people that are robbing stores have great decision making skills.

Yeah, yeah, you're asking a lot out of people who might not. It's like I get running, try to outrun them, but don't.

I would not try to kill one.

But yeah, cop killers don't bode well in the criminal justice system. The fact they didn't shoot him on the spot is actually the most fiction thing that as well, he's ever done because he was white. Even if you shoot a cop, I don't know, they really don't love that.

They don't love that. They'll do a whole parade.

They'll do a whole That's part of our rule of culture, if we were to start roles of culture, the cops famously don't love it when you shoot them.

So now we're back at the lab Morgue area, Melinda Warner's playground. She's in a straight hair ponytail. Only problem is the girl was already dead. So there's a fork in all of that.

I saw.

Let me just say I saw when I was looking up when I was looking up various things about this episode, Like you know how on IMDb people will sometimes point out indiscrepancies. People were, like somebody wrote on IMDb, like if the girl was already dead, why was she bleeding from the bullet hole. She would have stopped bleeding if she was dead, Like she wouldn't have had So that was an inconsistency that she had, like blood running down the bullet hole.

Yeah, so there wouldn't be any blood at all.

I guess if you shoot somebody that's already dead, there's no blood. I mean, there's no blood that like spills out because you don't have any more blood pressure.

Interesting. Interesting, So Melinda fills us in.

Outside of that, she says, the girl was filthy, she hadn't bathed in weeks, cheap clothes. But the necklace she had this like very expensive necklace, an Infinity symbol on a chain, which of.

Course Benson knows. Benson like always knows what's expensive and what's not. You could not tell me what was an expensive neck I mean maybe I could be like this looked a little bit claars, but like I cannot tell what's nice what's not, you know, But Benson Nos.

Yeah, she didn't know. And then but this is actually gross. So the things on her arms were not burns, they were cockerroach bites. Okay, so we got an Honie's scoop midway through Incoming Incoming, Oh, breaking news. I was like, what the fuck is the word? So the body won't really bleed. It might ooze though, and blood clots and thickens after death, so yeah, it would be like a thick ooze, not a gushing blood.

Thank you for that. Yeah, we learned a lot on this show. Always fun to talk about oo's. Ooz is an underused word, maybe because we don't run into ooze.

I like it.

Ooz reminds me of puss and that's one of my least favorite words.

I know, because when I had some ear moments you didn't like when I mentioned the pus, I.

Was worried for you. I just didn't really want to hear the p word it really for some reason. And I think because I had infected ears for so long, my mom would always be like, oh, it's pussing, and like, no, I'm triggered.

No, it hurts me too. I Ooze is more fun to me. It's slimy. It's ghostbusters. It's like something that crazy.

Or when they say somebody is oozing charm, you know, like oh she oozes star power.

Yeah, but that's not good because if you radiate, that's positive.

If you ooze that meat like, that's that that's slimy. Yeah, that's a slimy personality. Charm is dangerous. Charm is can go either way. Charm is not a blanket normal. How do we know because of our line of work?

Yeah, because of serial killers that are charming well and comedians. Oh yeah, Also that true, we're terrible people, but can charm your little pants off.

I wonder if there's a comedian that we know who has murdered. I wonder, hmm, interesting that like hit someone with their car and never told anyone that person's dead. Like, we've got to know a killer. Do you think I've never even considered that. Oh this is a new thought. I mean, this is you know, once when you talk for a year straight, NonStop, constantly, this is what happens. This is where you get to do we know a murderers? Yeah, thoughts, we'll put out some uh, some poles. Okay, back to

That's it.

So yeah, so she was drug or sick or restrained or something we don't really know.

So we're back at the precinct.

We have Kragan wearing suspenders saying this girl was held captive or what? Like, how can we explain this non movement? Oh feeling cockroaches bite?

I didn't even know cockroaches bite you. I didn't even know that either.

I did not, because usually you like, turn a light, that's the thing you turn a light on in cockroaches scatter, you know, so like they're kind of scared of people. But if you're sitting there restrained or like, you know, incapacitated, they're gonna have a buffet.

It's horrible. I can't believe you just use the word buffet. I know, I'm sorry. I can't even really say the word.

You know. My sister calls seawords, she calls them butterflies. She cannot talk about them. They're like her biggest fear.

Like she would.

Literally say, oh my god, on third Avenue, I saw a butterfly today, and like and it would be like rootin her fucking day.

What does she say for butterfly? Barely talks about them.

Well, if she ever wants, you know, I have a giant butterfly in my forearm for what reason?

No reason, no reason, Well, no, she like butterflies.

The fact that like, my biggest tattoo is a butterfly is just like, what is happening?

I don't even know.

I think that actually makes a lot of sense in like a funny metal way, because you act like your tattoos kind of don't have any story, but like, butterflies are a popular tattoo.

I don't know, there's something that makes sense about it to me.

Well, yeah, they're a popular tattoo, but you did it in a different like I don't know.

No, the nineties are back. I was regressing. I was. It was like I I was.

I remember the day I was in the apartment and I was like, I have to set up the printer or I'll get a tattoo.

And then I did that.

I arrived, I was like, give me a butterfly, Like whatever, can we get back to these cockroach bites?

But this is sickening and I hate this so much.

So then we also figure out that she was dead somewhere else then brought over to this area and the blanket. Obviously we're not new to SVU shows that somebody cared for her, which leans towards a female person, like I'm thinking about the hair brush piano lesson episode, and women usually like take care of their victims or something Jesus, And there's ribbons in the hair. Someone did love her. Munch and Finn run in like giggling schoolgirls. They're excited,

They're so sad too. They're so sad.

So they show the parents all the bags of evidence and they're reacting, but they've never seen that necklace. They don't know where this necklace has come from. So they have to rush over to a different scientist with the necklace and he goes, yeah, honestly, I don't know if she's a runaway or a street kid, how she had this necklace on her. Because this is worth a grand

What jewelry specialists, I guess, I mean yeah, but they're saying she would have sold it right, like because it's worth so much.

So she's probably not a street kid.

Yeah, or would have been like beat up at a shelter and it would have been taken. Yeah.

Curly Sue, Yeah, yeah, one of the main reasons people don't go to shelters. Yeah, okay, because of Curly Sue. Because of Curly Sue the movie. Yes, famously, when we go live on tour, let's just put on Curly Sue and see what happens.

We don't do the podcast.

I Love Where Today is going like we're at twenty three minutes and.

We're fight Oh my god, this is a nightmare. Okay.

So he they trace it to a little shop in the village. The man is obviously gay because it's a jewelry store. This is like Florist's. We're not going to go to any of these places and not see a gay man there, so it's Rass Saint Clair played by Brian Ready. He's a very books you know actor, but he's a Seinfeld person, so I obviously have to have him.

He is the high talker.

He's Noreene's husband Dan, and Elaine thinks she's talking to Nourine on the phone and it's like, ooh, you were flirting with Jerry.

And then I love this episode.

It's like a female he has a man with a female voice. Basically, that's so funny.

Ross Saint Clair.

This man's sexuality has nothing to do with the plot, but his name is Ross Saint Clair.

They're telling you everything you need to know. I think, yes.

And he owns a jewelry store. Come on, come on, so it's eight hundred dollars.

It something happened or she was wearing my infinity whoa And he goes, yeah, I make these custom for Garrett Lang. He's a regular. His assistant came in with a drawing and usually I make only my own stuff, but this guy, he orders like one hundred of them at a time.

That's eighty grand. So love that.

And he handed out the business card fast and I love that.

He's not like oh, Warrence, my patience, my this Yeah, yeah, I don't have.

A fuck my confidentiality in my jewelry store.

I just love the He's like, yeah, go fucking talk to him. I have I have jewels to make. I'm all Saint Clair and I'm busy. So they visit this wild clinic spiral staircase Marla called Marl Marble Marla Marble column vibes, and there's a giant ring hanging in the middle with an infinity symbol. This is It looks like a Vegas style ring. Someone should be contortion tricks in it. Anymoment. Pink is about to go do a show up there.

Oh my god, I love it.

So he uh he says he gives him to all his patients, and it's like, what the fuck. Then he starts talking about stamina. And this guy kind of looks like a poor Man's Ashton Kutcher.

Absolutely that is the best. I kept thinking. He looks so familiar.

Poor Man's Ashton Kutcher is perfect, So I will be going back from calling him doctor Garrett Lang Ashton.

So either of those names throughout this episode will work. And he is a serious regular from Queerra's Folk and that was his big thing.

His name's Gail Harold.

He's been on Desperate Housewives, and I do not trust him. But you know, it's this thing of like why are you handing out expensive things? If you watch Inventing Anna with Anna Delvi, she was like tipping with hundreds, very obviously, and the hotel worker's boyfriend goes, why does she have to do that? Rich people don't need to show off, like she's trying to prove something. And that's how I feel like right away, I'm like, why are you giving

You do? You know he's he's talking about like giving you like treatments that can just like enhance your performance, like in your life, like make you feel It's fountain of youth bullshit, like it's like young, make you feel younger, make you feel faster, better at sex, like you know everything like that that he's a quack for sure. Death becomes her? Yes, I wrote, Yes, now a morning go on.

So he's denying he knows this girl Samantha and says he does not treat children. But he goes, you know, my patients, say a lot of people ask about these necklaces, like this is sad, but I obviously can't give you a list of my patients.

Obviously not.

So now we're zooming back to reality from the clinic or at the sixteenth Precinct, and Munch is giving us a rundown on doctor Ashton. He says, he's so I hate saying this, Sam kum laud summa cum laude. What does that mean? Second place? You were kind of smart, but not the smartest.

It's it's the highest gpa, Like it's the highest, like a few people graduate at the top of the class. That summa cumlad You can be kum laude, magna cum laude, summa cum laude. And I'm sure someone's gonna tell me I'm pronouncing this wrong, but I think I'm I'm close to as Latin is not a spoken language anymore.

Yeah, and you guys are nerds, so what do we care? So he went to Stanford, that's a brand name. Then he went to Yale for his MZ and PhD residency with a focus on OBG y N and infertility and reproductive endocrinologist. Get the fuck away from Craigan makes a good point. With all these credentials, he's just working at some feel good clinic, Like that doesn't really make sense. Why wouldn't he be doing something greater with his knowledge.

I don't know, I kind of I like what Finn says anything.

I loved the post for his birthday and everyone had all their favorite lines.

That was really special.

You guys really came through, really a nice way to celebrate our man. So him and Munch argue about like what they think is going on, and my Ice is like maybe a pedophile, maybe like karas that fountain of youth. Also, necklace can't tie him to like you know, the necklace can't really tie him to this body. And the autopsy is backlogged, so what are we gonna do? Craigan sends them to the Morgue to get to like wait there until the data gets ready.

So what's gonna happen.

There's so much confusion, So Benson and Stable meet up with Melinda again. Trace is a facial tissue and dried saliva being tested for DNA. There's a blood clot to the left lung due to severe dehydration and liquids deprived for five to ten days, so the blood turned to sludge. We talked about it with the ooze, so she was locked away. But what's fucked up is when you get your period, one to two eggs get released, but Samantha had twelve eggs released at the exact same time, and

Who is that?

Oh my god, that's Jessica Morse. She went missing. They recognize her from the posters. There were so many posters of this missing girl. And it's New York City. Of course, Benson and Stabler know about all the missing girls in town, so they rush the build. An old lady Batty comes up, and this is Barbara Barry. She has one hundred and

That people really like. That one.

That wasn't a big one to me, But there is a Hercules Disney stand club on a. Lisa's nodding, so I'm in it.

I'm in it. Born in Chicago in nineteen thirty one, Are you kidding me?

That's that's exciting. And she has tiny, tiny lips, you know, she like Miranda Priestley pursing her lips and Devil Wears Prada is how this woman's mouth is at all times.

And that is her I And she's the thumbnail for this episode, and you always just kind of like when you see this episode on her, you're like, ah, right, it's this.

Yes, She's everything to me.

Like if one day I am about to win a million dollars and they show me her face, I'll know exactly who it is.

She has a white hair pixie cut.

They bust inside the school and she's like, excuse me, but they saw a missing girl. They have every right to run into that Brownstone So we find out this woman is a licensed teacher and these are her students.

So there's girls and desks.

There's a few girls there, and she says she finds the girls on the streets. Her name is Paula Haggerty, and she gives them a safe place to live, food and education. Benson is not having any of it, arrests her, dumb ass and says, well, now they're going back home to their parents.

How about that? And when she handcuffs her, guess what.

Paula Haggerty has an infinity symbol tattoo on the inside of her arms, so we know that she's connected. An old lady doesn't just get an infinity tattoo. It's not like that was trendy in the seventies. We know exactly when that became popular. Hello, Tiffany's brand jewelry. I think that's what brought or maybe that's just to me, but that's what made the infinity symbol known to me, was Tiffany's.

Oh really, yeah, you knew about it before. Oh I didn't know math Tiffany Infinity. Yeah. I knew about it for Math and like I've seen people's tattoos of it.

Actually, no I didn't know about it till those necklaces. Like if you want it to be different, you wanted Tiffany's, but a little different.

They're bad girl's Tiffany. God, I just want to go into Tiffany's and treat it like Claire's. Like, wouldn't that be so fun? Yeah, you don't even Yeah, I don't.

I'm not as I'm not as your jewelry focus. You know me on, I'm not that jewelry focus.

But I you.

Know you love delicate jewels, you love delicate necklaces, you got you like jewelry.

Yeah, I just don't want to put set up high expectations and then our listeners meet us and go your jewelry games actually just average, you know. I just don't. I just don't want that to happen. She says, yes, I love my tattoo. It's for infinite potential. Stabler runs to get the missing girl. Jessica says, long blonde hair. She says, I'm not who you think I am. He says, your family wants you back. She says, my name is Marjorie, it's not Jessica, and this is my family.

Hello, we say brainwash, and this actress is Kimberly J. Brown.

You might know her as Halloween Town Girl aka A Quinn's aka the Missing Girl. Hello, this is huge Halloween Town hit like a crux this year. I saw it everywhere, So this is very cool to see her in this and blonde. We are here and stable in her are trying to have a moment, and now we're cutting to Lady Haggarty and she's an interrogation and she has a lawyer.

The lawyer is sexy. Oh and this woman, the lawyer is played by Laura Herring.

And she is really famous for this David Lynch movie called Mulholland Drive, and that's I think, like her claim to fame. She's from Mexico. I was like trying to place her accent, but it's very subtle. She's but that movie is very boring and I couldn't get through it.

It was Yeah, I don't know, did you.

Get to the make did you get to the sex scene with Naomi Once?

I don't think so, Like, I don't know why.

I don't know if me and David Lynch vibe because that's twin peaks too, right, Yeah, didn't care boring, fell asleep.

I just don't care. What else has he done.

He's done blue Velvet twin peaks wild at heart like he's a lot of Laura durn stuff.

I haven't seen it. Yeah, and this is what I'm learning. She's like David, she's his muse. I do love Laura.

Have you seen the I'm sorry? Have you seen the the meme of uh me? Of Julia Fox going I was I was Brian Softi's muse and uncut Jobs. Yeah, of course it's my favorite uncut jobs.

Okay, so we're all the time continues, so.

We're an interrogation. Benson goes, fuck you. She goes, I just tried to help them. Their parents mistreated them, and Craigan goes, how would you even fucking note that? And I guess she studied psychology, which is not a real major like dumb bitch's major in psychology all the time.

It's not real.

And as a sociology major, I feel like I could say that unless you have a PhD, it doesn't matter. Or maybe people do learn and retain information from college.

Maybe I'm the fool.

So Craigan says, she must know that the like that teens aren't always right about their parents. Being the worst, like you, you know from Street Wise, like some parents are kind of fine. And the lawyer like I said, hot, hot hot, And we find out that Lang started the foundation of knowledge, So okay, we're connecting it. He probably like he denied knowing the dead girl, but he is part of this foundation. Everyone's wearing this necklace like fuck you,

Thank you for adding that. Yes, listen, yes, I only have what I have.

I've only seen this episode at least fifteen to two twenty dollars. So and the lawyer, of course, my favorite line are what are we doing here? Are you charging? And they go kidnapping, like you are being charged? Like you're not gonna walk out of here. There's kidnapping. So Stabler and law and you know are Halloween Town girl Jessica.

Why can't you see that?

I know everyone thinks I was kidnapped, but I ran away because my parents didn't understand me. And Haggarty saved my life and took me off the streets and feeds and teaches us. So you know she loves this woman, and that Paula taught all the girls that they need to respect themselves. And Stabler pulls out the big guns and takes out a photo of dead Samantha and goes, is this one of the girls?

And she says, Noah.

She fiddles with her necklace and starts playing it with it, which is an obvious line moment.

If you start playing with the necklace, you're lying.

Rule of culture. Can we just rip off another podcast full segment? Do we have to pay them ten cents every time we say it is legal? Gonna get involved? So we cut to Craigan looking through the blinds like a boy little neighbor, talking to George Kuang and Cabot and Benson.

They're all talking like what are we gonna do?

So one girl's from Denver, one from Chicago, one from Omaha and one from Detroit. They're all high profile cases because they all came from wealthy or upper class families.

So very street wise. Again, not to mention it, you know our past episodes over and over again.

But we did street Wise. What are you gonna do about it?

So b D, with a pertinent question, asks how do the girls react to being found? And they go, oh, pissed. They denied their real names, they deny that they were kidnapped, and they just all want to go back to missus. Haggerty and Cabot asks if this is Stockholm syndrome, but B D. Wong says no, this is like full devotion brainwashing. It's kind of different. But they can't hold anybody, so at the end of the day, they really can't connect Lang or Haggarty and the most they could do is

So and the emmy said that that is how she died.

So they really need to get all the evidence together and really prove this case. So Craigan goes, oh my god, So if they're holding more girls other places, like we only found a few of the necklaces, like, we have to find what's happening. So they go back to raid the original foundation Brownstone. They find nothing like Homeland style nothing. Everything is taken out, nothing is left behind. So that shows innocence to me. I think this is you've obviously

But who told them that? I'm confused.

None of the girls were allowed near a phone, like so it had to be Haggardy or the lawyer. But with the lawyer risk losing her license by obstruction of justice, like, how did this happen? So Jessica reunites with her parents. She's not that happy about it, and everyone at the priestcinct is staring and she's just like, okay, I don't really like my parents, and Craigan goes, wow, cults, they're wild. So we cut to a fancy lawyer office and there's a lot of wood fake Ashton's there in an eight

We have no idea.

They're like it had to be one of you, guys, So what's going on here? And the lawyer says, very calmly, are you accusing me of a crime? And Benson's like, well you all you have the same lawyer. This is weird.

You're all weird. Stop denying.

Stop being meaning leaks at a reunion on Bravo, like, you know you're acting different, acknowledge it. Something shady is happening, like like something's afoot, guys. Ashton says, yes, I did call Joan as soon as you took you know, Paula away. We love her and he's like, you're wrong, and Benson says, no, you're wrong, and you did in vitro on. Samantha like, what are we wrong about that? And he says, maybe

Clearly a psychopath. I don't trust him. Sorry, we have to close you down. Also like, why don't you care about helping boys?

Yeah, you know, first time of my life I care about the boys.

But I will help the boys.

And of course we have another bingo line with the lawyer and she says, if you're not charging us with a crime, you gotta leave again, but this time it works, so they all have to leave, and George is like, you know what, that guy is a narcissistic bastard and he loves being in charge, and like even the lawyer defers to him before speaking, So of course teens would

It's a teenage girl's dream. You're perfect the way you are.

I thought it was interesting they talked about love bombing because I have just been hearing about that now recently. Yeah, in like dating and stuff, and I had never really heard that phrase before. Yeah, this episode is from like two thousand and three or four, so it's like.

I don't know, it's always ahead of their time, but love bombing is very in right now, So soopath is in, toxic is in a lot of That's what's on Instagram at the moment.

It would just.

Yeah, like with mid with West Elm, there was a guy named like west Elm Caleb, this guy who this girl her TikTok blew up because she like outed this guy for being like a serial dater and a jerk who would like go on dates with girls like love bomb them, be like I'm obsessed with you, like everything about you is perfect, and then like never call them again. And he got blown up. And I think he was a furniture designer for West Elm, so he got called west Elm Caleb. I saw that, but I refuse to

I can't not know. That is amazing. Yeah, it's cool.

That we're becoming more and more attuned to dangerous people out in the world that can ruin our lives.

But also we can't overuse it. Yeah, or we can and we do. Who cares?

But yeah, if someone becomes obsessed with you, you're not that cool, like they're they're using you.

Sorry, is that what we're telling people? I just think it's like, you know, trust your gut.

If you feel like someone's love bombing you and it's not authentic and it's not like they haven't known you long enough to love bomb you, then something's up that's red flag.

You know.

Yeah, so Stabler goes, there's no way these girls found them on accident, Like, there's no fucking way. And Georgia grees like these girls were targets. How did they find them? But instead of going to a new location, we're like back to the sad grieving parents. So that sucks. Their eyes are wet as hell, but they do have good information. They're like, wait, you said she was murdered. Now you're saying she's homeless. Now this now that like what are you doing?

Or like turning the knife and twisting it harder, Like she was starved to death and left in an alley.

Why did you have to tell them that? There's no reason they need to know she was starving and being tortured. What the fuck? SVU.

But we do need to know her routine to see if something clicks, and something does click. She started getting bad grades, fell into a bad crowd, so they put her in a remedial tutoring center. That helped kids realize their full potential.

Ding ding ding ding ding.

So that is the center for knowledge builders, and they're rushing fast to get some information on this place where maybe the girls are being taken from.

But the quote is exactly the same. This is this has to be it.

So they go to a place they show the photo of Samantha and this woman in a white tank in a blazer's like, no, no, no, never seen her before. And the woman asked like, why are you guys here, and they're like, well, the girl actually attended this center, so this is pretty awkward that you have no idea who she is. And then Stabler brings up like, also a girl that went missing in Philly also went to

Okay, I've been to that.

Was the first time I've tried it.

It was good. So she's like, listen, full potential quote. Is that a crime?

And Benson goes, well, yeah, if doctor Lange paid for it, then yes, this is fucked up. And she goes, oh my god, Garrett Lang, our hearts, our eyes, We love him, love him. He's a generous, forward thinking man. Whatever.

So she's like, he's an investor.

They could pause for a little bit, but we got to go to home base.

We gotta have like you know what I mean.

Yeah, but this woman has a lawyer and basically all the girls that went to the center, he pays for the center. Then Haggarty teaches them. So Koonderski is the woman at the center, recruits them, he teaches them, and Quinton the lawyer, protects and he has all these women doing his dirty work. So now what can.

I also just say that every single person in this episode like doesn't give a single tell when they look at these photos of these girls, they're all like no, Like they all are like no, never seen them, like perfect deflection, Like none of them are even like no, you know what I mean, Like everyone's just like never seen them.

Nope, yes, So like I'm just four people, yeah, Like I feel desperate to be involved in an investigation to help, and these people are just like not like I would take a double glance.

I'd be like, yeah, did I see her somewhere? You know, Like, yeah, you're right. It's so fucking quick.

So then Munch finds out that Kandinsky's credit card statements put her in the city of each of the other girl's disappearance three days before they go missing. But still there's no smoking gun. They need a smoking gun. All the girls have gone home already though, so maybe we can get it from Jessica. So they go harass Jessica at the townhouse. Jessica and Stablers sit outside and behind

That Hanks there.

So Stabler's doing creepy, creepy like familiar we're friends like tricking to get information, but she really misses Paula Haggerty and she's like, do you really think she did something wrong? And he goes, yeah, I do, and she says she thinks that Paula is the most wonderful woman alive ever, and she thinks Garrett's the best ever. And he's just trying to get some sort of information, and finally we get some crazy that Garrett Lang is going to save

It's like he took cells and put them in my eggs, like it just the sciences, like even a fourteen year old should be like okay, but like where's the sperm?

Like it's so.

Well, yeah, they just believe that it's clones. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Yale and Stanford are brand names, like maybe you just trust people.

True.

So we cut to from finding out about in vitro to breaking down the doors of a clinic boom boom bam, and Benson calls it a little shop of horrors, and then they like go midway through him doing an experiment on a girl who's like legs are in the stirrups, and Benson and Stabler hold little masks to their face, which is cute, and he's like, if my person gets an infection, and they're like, why would there be an infection? I have a little mask holding like you're wearing dirty, dirty cop.

Clothes, like but there's no open wounds. So it's like, stop what you're doing. Put the teen girl away. You're like, teen girls aren't guinea pigs, you psycho. They're in interrogation and they are trying to get to the bottom of what's going on. But He's like, honestly, I'm just trying to like help the future of humanity, and you've harmed

He then brings up Catholicism and Stabler obviously does not like that one bit, and he does a classic psychopath move, which is comparing yourself to g or greater things, so he thinks he's like Galileo Darwin vibes.

And this reminded me.

Sorry to talk about New Jersey Housewives again, but I'm on a big rewatch. But so, Caroline Manzo's son starts hanging out with Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley's daughter Alexa.

Do you know this?

But Caroline Manzo talks, She goes, yeah, I mean both of our children come from very you know, privileged homes, and it's like, did you just compare yourself to Billy Joel?

And Christie Brinkley.

I love how this reminds you of that this guy comparing himself to Galileo reminds you of Caroline Manzo comparing yourself to Billy Joel.

I mean that is the vibe of this podcast in a nutshell.

But it was just like you think that you're like, by owning a catering hole in Jersey and being on the Housewives, you're equal to.

One of the greatest musicians of all time.

Who's just monthly selling out Madison Square Garden for years and like a supermodel of the world. And you're like, you know, both of our kids know what it's like to be in the limelight.

Yes, makes sense, makes sense, perfect match.

But yeah, you're not fucking Galileo, you dumb Ashton bitch.

So then the lawyer then is like, what's the charge?

Like shut up, and Bensi is sexy as fuck, and stone cold stares her down and goes fraud and aggravated sexual abuse, and I love it's like, stop pretending nothing is going on, Like there are real charges, you fuckers. And he's confident that the charges won't stand in court. And Cabot and Craigan have been spying through the glass, and Cabot says he's right, let him loose. She's so, I just hate this, Like I love this show so much.

Half of her job is going I need more cut him loose. That's literally fifty percent of her.

Yeah, Like from now on, I think all the lawyers scenes, I'm just gonna go the classic leave me alone. No, I will always just keep talking and never shut up.

But it is like, this is a weird part because like, if you don't mind me just summarizing this next bit, she goes, little, teens don't need consent to get pregnant, and it's true.

It's like we don't want.

To get caught up in like the legalities of oh well, if you need consent to get pregnant, then you need consent to get an abortion and all this stuff, Like we need to leave reproductive rights very fluid, and that's what this guy is praying on the fact that reproductive rights with teens is like very open.

It's like legal thing.

Yeah, absolutely, And it's like, yeah, if teens are allowed to get pregnant, we can't really dictate how they get pregnant.

Yeah, so thank you for summarizing it.

I just thought that was interesting because it was like I could see at this point why cabits like can'tently do much.

Absolutely about Kragan's Like, ahh, this is like Mangola, this is Nazi shit, Like I'm not for it.

So there are, you know, oun opposite ends of more of whatever. They're having a discussion.

Alex Kabot goes, how many more times do I have to tell you this? We can only get him if you connect him to Samantha Tassler's death, like she's probably at wits end, like what you guys understand, like connect connect it. So they run, they run some Melinda, and Melinda goes, listen, I'm ruling the homicide. The DNA in the cheek belongs to Paula Haggarty. Oh no, Melinda is in a tight bun, which I think rarely happens too.

There's a lot of tears.

So then she finally spills the beans, the beans that we've been waiting for. Samantha told Jessica that she knew doctor Lang was a fake and she was going to report him to the police. And so Jessica went and told Paula Haggerty on her and then no one saw Samantha again. So she will be living with his guilt forever and it is her fault and maybe she should get some jail fucking time too, because if it was

You're someone that believed in.

Cloning, and she goes, since you did believe in all this cloning, and you thought this was real, and you were mad at Samantha, and you did believe that Samantha deserved to be punished, so like you thought this would happen. And she goes, yeah, I didn't think she was gonna be killed. Like there's a difference between a little punishment and full on, disgusting, cockroach bite death. So they keep grilling her. She's crying, She's giving a performance of a lifetime.

I think that would be really good. But Dolly, but they talk like Dolly Parton a little bit. Okay, I see where you're going. I see where you're going.

All of a sudden, you said Dolly Parton, And I just got an urge for grilled cheese. That took over my life like I was fucking pregnant, Like I just bled so I know I'm not, but I want grilled cheese right now.

But like birds, a little like bubbly cheese. Why does Dolly bring you that thought?

I don't know. Life is weird, our brains are okay.

I thought maybe you saw a picture of Dolly eating a grilled cheese one time or something.

No, it's truly psychotic. I'm unhinged. I'm losing it. This episode is driving me to the end. I like, cannot and I cannot.

You only have another page? I can't. You can do it. There's still eight more sets. Like that's the thing.

You think we're in court and it's done, and it's not like we're still gonna go back to visiting people in jail. I'm just like, I just I'm like, I know, there's more twists. There's more twists, so you know this guy's basically the Wizard of Oz. Like you, why are you promising cloned babies to grieving parents if there are no cloned babies and you're using your own sperm and you're taking their money, Like, how do you not see what you're doing as a crime.

I'm like fucking livid right now.

And he said the girl's consented and It's like, yeah, they consented, but it's a clone baby is not your sperm babies, and cab It did Okay, not her best work. I'm gonna say this was not her greatest you know cross examination that I've ever seen. The defense redirects and asks have you ever even stepped foot into that school? No, So now they're starting to turn everything on Paula and how Paula does everything, and that Lang is never even there.

I'm trying to help.

We're trying to help you because they're they're you know, you're gonna martyr yourself for him. And she says he gave me something that I lost and eye will never turn my back on him, and Cabot knows the scoop and goes, your daughter named Carrie, so she's a missing person from nineteen seventy five.

She ran away and.

Paula never saw her daughter again, and that's why she wanted to work with teenage girls and give them a home, and she wanted to help these teens and also like bring to life dead children like she wanted to do it all. And she goes, and those parents should have treated their daughters better, like fuck them, and Cabba goes, yeah, because you were a bad mom, right, and she starts

Not good, not good.

And right now she's wearing a pretty pink turtleneck and I like it. She's turning looks on the stand, really making a big statement for turtlenecks. And then she says, listen, I reasoned with Samantha. I put her in the basement, which is like how we and doctrine, and was ordered by doctor Ashton Lang and to knock her water or food to reprogram her. And you know, the sixth night she went in and Haggarty kind of cracked because so Samantha could wasn't moving, and so she'd wanted to give

And the acting's insane.

This is like such a professional actress and composed crying in character, so masterful, and the doctor looks pissed.

Like how dare you betray me? Look?

And then they both carried her to the car to leave, and he told her, like go put her somewhere so it looks like she was homeless, and she did do it. She made her as comfortable as possible. But she is part of it. And I hope she serves some jail time.

I hope she doesn't go free, like maybe a reduced sentence, but like I am not on her side.

And then the doctor stands up and says, why are you doing this? Why are you betraying me? And Petrovsky of course not happy with it. Judge Petrovsky does not like it, and she goes an out of order and then the psychoasis goes the line of the century.

This whole trial is out of order.

And then Benson and Stablers stand watching as everything happens, and Benson has the largest collared shirt I've ever seen in my life, Like, you can go hang gliding with these collars, jump off the fucking green canyon. They like giant collars. And you know, he's being pulled away while talking about the future of science and cloning and future and that's that, and we're done, and I'm fucking done.

Here are sponsors. Okay, thank you, Lee's.

I never got to thank you for all the hard work you did recapping before we went to break. That was an intense long episode with a lot of twists, and you did a great job, sir, baying us through all of that nonsense with cloning. Now, this is gonna be sort of a potpourri of cases because this episode's listed all over the internet as having several different inspirations of crimes and people and situations. So I'm gonna just

So she tried to get a psychiatric exam, and somehow the scientologists found out she was being held and went and grabbed her and took her out.

Yeah, And when they took her out, she was like, yeah, yeah, I don't want that. I don't want any psychiatry, like I think. Once she was confronted with members of the church, she was like, I don't want this and left of her own accord. So she was at this hotel under and this is in Clearwater, Florida, which is like a huge Scientology.

It's like their their main base, and LA is the main base.

No. LA is like big for the associate for the celebrity center, and like a big recruiting center and where they do all of their like propaganda, like they have movie studios here. But Clearwater, Florida has always been like where the main shit is.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, because this castle, this Lavender Castle, is huge. Oh, I mean it's the place to be.

They have like our land barons the Church of Scientology, like they have so much property, and in Los Angeles they have like expensive ass property. Like I mean, we could do a whole nother fucking episode on Scientology, but maybe for a future Patreon that doesn't exist. So according to uh the Scientologist, she was under twenty four to seven.

To like mind their own fucking business.

Obviously, so when they saw that she was doing really badly. This scientilicology doctor named Minkoff was called and he insisted that he see McPherson, even though he was forty five minutes away from Clearwater. So they start taking her to Minkoff's hospital, and Janis Johnson, who was a medical officer at the Fort Harrison Hotel who was assigned to McPherson, she said that the whole ride, Lisa is gasping and having labored breathing, and they passed four fucking hospitals on

I don't buy it.

I have a giant bruise on my knee right now, so this is stressing me out.

Listen, are you moving? Are you sitting up right now?

If you have a bruise and you stay sedentary, I think that can become a clot or or an embolism that moves up into your body and hurts you.

Sorry to make it, no, it's okay.

The problem was this woman was like Samantha. She was either tied down or so weak that she couldn't move.

It also makes me feel better that not actually than not at all. But the fact that it had the cocker thing happened and they took it from this case is better to me than the people are so unhinged that the writing came up with it, like to come up with seditary cockroach bites fictionally is more fucked up than taking it from real life, even though I wish it never happened or has been utter you.

Know, urse I know, but I hear what you're saying.

So then then essentially there was a second coroner's report that went along with all this. Like I like to think doctor Michael Batten is like unimpeachable, but I just think scientology has so much power and so much money, Like how could this woman's like condition not be How could it just be this embolism and not related to the fact that she wasn't drinking or eating. I guess it's possible she refused all that stuff herself.

But she also wasn't she was just trying to go to the psychiatrist. She wasn't trying to go against the church or was that such a big.

You're really not allowed to do that. But she was having a mental health episode, so I'm sure she just wanted like some kind of help, and the Church of Scientology is like, we know how to get we know how to do this, and they think that they were giving her like introspection rundowns and probably trying to make her, you know, just like talk it out, but like there comes to a point where talk therapy is obviously not enough.

How we are.

The Rillyan human cloning organization is called Clone AID and in two thousand and two, ry Alliens I'm saying I'm probably saying it wrong. Ryellians Rallians is gonna come after us. Yeah, I know, I say something.

I was reading it all I was reading on the internet.

They had between fifty thousand and one hundred thousand followers worldwide.

We're not huge, but we could have a Rillian listener. We'll see.

And this is honestly, I have the biggest smile on my face. This is the funniest thing we've ever covered. Like, I do love this UFO cult a lot. I hope they I mean, maybe they do bad things. I mean, I don't know, but I love the idea of them.

Well.

He In two thousand and two, the Rye Alliens claimed that they had cloned the first human baby named eve.

Uh.

That caused it international media stir. Obviously it was not real. Ryle believes that humanity is slowly transitioning into a society where humans will not need to work or have jobs.

Because of that, Yeah, yeah, I thought maybe you would like that.

Actually, he wrote a book in two thousand and one called Yes to Human Cloning. He thought that we could do like human genetic engineering to avoid and like get rid of genetically inherited diseases, which I'm sure people are researching constantly, but there aren't like aliens in the sky that are going to help you with doing that, and so.

No matter how hard we wish there were.

Yeah, And apparently in general, Rileyanism is widely mocked and thought to be pretty looney tunes, like on the internet and across the board like where people are even like religious scholars were like okay, like I mean it's a UFO religion, like so a little.

Yeah, but how is scientology any more grounded in anything real than us?

You know, scientology has a lot of the same. I mean when I make fun of Scientology to my husband, he goes, yeah, but how is that different from Judaism or Christianity or a lot of religions. And I'm like, well, my problem with scientology is how they take all of your money and they excommunicate you from your family, Like how you just have to like ditch your family if they like you can be Catholic and be married to a Jew, you know what I mean, Like, no religion

It's controversial. A lot of people don't do it.

I did not do it for rosy because I was told I didn't really need to because it can cause a miscarriage or a problem with the baby. So not everybody does amniocentesis, and I totally get that, but it's a way to test for specific diseases. What this guy would do is he would inject patients with hCG, which is human choreyonic gonadoptrepin gonad otrepin Okay, before and after.

He would do it before.

They conceived, and then this is basically the hormone that is common in pregnancy. This is what a pregnancy test is testing for, and it's also used in fertility treatments as well. So the pregnancies would progress normally and then they would take pregnancy tests and be positive, and the patient's bodies would begin to feel changes, and then he'd perform an ultrasound and he'd be like, oh, here's the

It did not exist.

And some of Jacobson's patients who had been conceived through donor insemination agreed to have their you know, genes tested and their babies tested, and at least seven instances they found where Jacobsen was the father of the children, including one patient who was supposed to have been inseminated with her husband sperm. She wasn't there to get donor sperm, she was there to get her husband's sperm.

So fucked up.

So more DNA tests linked him to at least fifteen children, and it has been suspected that he fathered as many as seventy five children with his own sperm.

So I don't understand how So some of the parents were lied to with grainy images and hormone therapy and it was like, haha, we took your money, and then some of the people fully were given his sperm and habit.

I think maybe that's how it progressed, Like maybe he started out the first and then he started being like, wow, these people really like when you when he gives his side of it, he thinks he did nothing wrong. He was like, they wanted babies, they were having trouble. I gave them babies. When you ask him about what happened with these fake pregnancy things, He's like, no, I thought they were pregnant. It's like, you know how the science works, like you can see on a on a ultrasound if

But of course he got five years. That's the end of that.

This guy got five years, and I think that's pretty nuts. And he of course moved to Utah after that, and he lost his medical license, so he's obviously not practicing medicine any longer and is probably on a do not practice list in every state.

I wonder what he's doing in Utah.

I heard he was doing agricultural research or something like that. There was something that I read about that, but it was not related to.

But I wonder if someone like that becomes like the John Stamos character and becomes a reproductive abuser in their personal life when they can't do it professionally.

He had eight I think he had eight children with his actual wife.

Yeah.

I bet he's still doing some illegal, nefarious shit.

Yeah.

The final case that I was going to talk about today, So a lot of what I found on the internet said that this episode was linked to the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. And I do get the timing of that, because she was found in two thousand and three. That's when this episode came out. Like that's undeniable.

It seems to.

Me that the only similarity was just them finding Jessica and being like, wait, we know her, She's that missing girl. That kind of seems like the only similarity because it's really they're really not that linked otherwise. But I'm going to just tell you about Elizabeth Smart anyway, just because it's interesting and there are no other s few episodes based on Elizabeth Smart.

So I'm going to talk about this real quick with you now.

Jam packed episode for find Out for our little stories, but I'm trying to keep them short so it's not like too crazy, and the honestly, the Elizabeth Smart case, I think was so publicized because she was this like beautiful, blonde haired, blue eyed girl that went missing, but it wasn't like there's just not as much information. It's pretty

Yeah.

So yeah, he went into her room, he took her at knife point. The sister did wake up, but pretended to be a s and then the sister tried to actually come out and tell the parents, but when she opened the door, she saw the kidnapper and her sister in the hallway. So she went back into her bed for like two hours terrified, and then finally went out

Help work on their roof.

So an act of kindness from Elizabeth Smart's mother turned into this nightmare where her daughter was kidnapped by this man. During her captivity, she was forced to take on a new name, and she chose Esther from the Old Testament, my grandmother's name, and also we know Book of esther very religious name. She would accompany Mitchell and Barzi in public on various occasions, and she would be head to

How did they know about the cousin?

He knew he must have known this family because he was there for a few months working on their roof, So he probably saw Elizabeth one time, then saw the other another girl who was like around the same age. And he's looking for brides. He's looking for young brides, you know, but not so I don't know, sir, it's weird. Yeah, well the sister was only like nine, maybe, like you know what I mean, maybe that was too young for him,

So now they're trying to find him.

Meanwhile, Mitchell has maybe trying to move the family the quote the family to another city like New York or Boston. But Elizabeth smart like very smartly revealed like, oh, she goes, I think God wants us to go back to Salt Lake City because at this point he kept her for a long time basically twenty miles from her family's house, which is so nuts, like so close in the woods.

Go home, you know.

But Elizabeth Smart wasn't positive that this whole ordeal was over. You know, she's so traumatized, like she doesn't know, so she's like probably telling them her fake name and all this stuff, and so I think her name was Augustine was another name that they gave her when they were in public, so I think she was reverting to that and then eventually taken to the police station, joyfully reunited with her family, and it's a happy ending, I mean

Master tells me.

But she got early released and was released in twenty eighteen and then with Mitchell getting his prison sentence and conviction, it was difficult because there was a lot of back and forth about his fitness to stand trial, whether he was going to be ruled confident or you know, we've

And you know what's crazy is right after she.

Was found, not right after, but you know, within a couple of years, she did her first interview with Katie Couric. I cannot find it anywhere. There's a transcript of it, but there's no video, Like I can't find the video. I don't know if NBC took it down or what, but like I could not find the video of the interview, and apparently it was a kind of a softball interview,

And you know, she shut down Nancy Grace in that interview, I would say three to four times, and Nancy was relentless and would not stop, Like, I don't understand how you're this disrespectful of a young woman that like escaped such terror because it was her just being like I've told you to stop.

Like she finally had to be like, what are you doing?

Yeah, I don't want to talk about what happened because they were like you were just walking on the oh. I remember Nancy Grace going so were you scared, and her going yeah, what are you doing?

Yeah?

Well, she is now like a very accomplished advocate for missing people and victims of sexualists.

She's an author.

I watched I did watch an interview with her and Anderson Cooper, but it's from twenty thirteen, so it's like ten years after the fact. She's older, she's more composed, she can talk about what happened to her. And it was when she decided to write her book, and she was obviously saying, like people disclosed to me constantly, Like people come up to me and just say, my dad tried to sell me so that he could pay mortgage

Dancer as Miss moth Wow.

She went on The mask Dancer and I read this interview with her where she was like, they were like, this isn't really something you've ever done before, and she was kind of like, you know, when I got offered this, I thought I couldn't believe it. And then my grandma had just passed away, and I sort of thought about her life and she had done a lot of serious things,

Yeah.

Why not let someone dance on TV in an outfit? Yeah?

And get her face out to more people that can learn about her work and her story.

You know what I mean, Like, it's so fucked. This is fucked. Thank you, Kara.

So that's the combination of my mixed bag of crimes today.

Yeah, we got a lot of scoop. Thank you so much.

Hang on for our interview, guys, it's gonna be a good one. All right, everybody, Today's guest. If you were a kid in the nineties, there's a really good chance that you know and are obsessed with today's guest. She's a Disney Channel Original movie icon known for her roles in the first three Halloween, Town Movie and Quince And she also has appeared in tons of staple soaps like

Brown. Yeah, so it's an iconic one.

The woman who plays like the teacher the main Why am I forgetting her name?

It's just Sarry Barbara.

Yeah, because you know with SVU, when you're someone like us that watches constantly, you're like, wait, I know this episode, what Wait, which one is it? And then you see her, and you're like, oh, yes, this is insemination cult. So how does it feel to be in a cult episode? Were you a fan beforehand? How is audition like the beginnings of the episode?

I honestly, I don't think I had seen a full episode before I did the show, But after I did the show, I have seen probably you know, a hundred at least now, Like it completely sucked me in and I was very generously offered the role, which doesn't have you know, is a very cool thing when it does

Did you do research on cults, brainwashing, kidnapping Elizabeth Smart? Did you prep in any sort of way to play someone that it's been brainwashed.

I was familiar with the Elizabeth Smart story and kind of looked it up again, but I didn't want to get too heavy into her story because I knew they were also doing their own thing with it, and other than that, I did not. I can't say I looked up brainwashing. No, but it was.

While we were planning questions. I looked at Kara and was like, did you research cults? And she started answering it, and I was like, not you, We're going to ask, but I guess no one's researching car.

I started to be like, well, yeah, I mean I've done a lot of research off cult.

Yeah, short, short, yeah.

So you looking at you, our listeners can't see you, but you have dark hair. You are a blonde in this episode? Or is that a wig?

Were you? Did you used to be a blonde? Did they make you dye your hair? What's the story?

I went through a blonde Actually, I don't want I was going to say a blonde phase, but it wasn't. I think it was after I did a movie called Bringing Down the House where I played Steve Martin and Jean Smart's daughter, and so I had lightened my hair for that movie, and so I kind of kept it up for I think a couple of years after doing that movie, so this was still when I was keeping

Yeah, the change of personality and hair color.

Well hair to go into the makeup hair wardrobe world.

You had great outerwear.

I don't know if this is too specific of a question for something that happened twelve years ago, but.

Possibly let's try so.

You just had such good peak coats and there was like a Swede tan collar jacket. Do you remember working with wardrobe or that, you know, the Infinity necklace is pretty iconic.

I did love that necklace. I remember than being very specific obviously about the necklace, but about her wearing things that didn't either didn't quite fit or you know, were a little bit not along the lines of you know, what teens in that age range were wearing that day, and they did want to kind of set her apart

Off of them.

Speaking of Maloney, you have a lot of intense moments with him in this episode, did you guys connect or I mean, what's was it hard to focus because he's so hot or like what?

He was fantastic? I mean everybody in the whole cast was, but it it was fun to kind of play off of that. He has such an intense energy when he's playing Stabler, and I think it was fun to I definitely used that in the role. But I just loved how he was so intense but then also just brought that warmth thin to really, you know, kind of make anybody.

That's nice to hear.

We've mostly heard that about him, But everybody usually gushes about Mariushka any any guy, and I.

Will add to the gushing. She was so kind and just I didn't. She is sort of the epitome I think of the kind of character like I admire her in that role so much, Like that is the kind of role in character that I think would be so fun to play for years and years, Like it doesn't surprise me that the show is so successful and she just continues to kick ass in it, because she's just she's just a kick ass person. But we did we had somebody in common in the sense when I first

Did you sense their love connection on set?

They were definitely. They're definitely very bonded and worked together very well, and there's a I really could tell there was such a collaborative just a collaborative sense among all of them, and in the way that they worked with the producer and the director on set, but also you know, the producers that weren't there, and there was always like calls made to them and kind of discussing certain dialogue

You also got a courtroom scene. I didn't know how was that a blast?

Because they were like, well, we're on the you know, this is the this is the law and order set, you know, so there was a lot of care throughout all of the shooting and everything to not mess up anything that was you know, pre set in the way that that cast and crew and everything that had everything set up. But as an actor, I have always I love courtroom shows. I love like and I've always wanted to play a lawyer, which I haven't yet, I've gotten

Yeah.

What kind of lawyer?

Defense, prosecution, good guys, slimy bad?

I think I think defense. I think I think it's one of my other favorite roles in shows. Ever is the good Wife, and I watching Juliana Margully is like, that was just such an amazing role. But I think it's fun to kind of show the human side of that kind of job and who you're representing and all that kind of stuff, to kind of show, you know, the behind the scenes aspect of what I imagine that life to be. I have no idea.

Yeah, seems terrible in real life seems it seems.

Very stressful, very stressful, and I there's no absolutely no way. I have way too much anxiety to the lawyer. But it's you know, it's so fun to watch.

Yeah, I mean on TV they wrap up the case in fifteen minutes. Yeah, So, how was working with Barbara Barry?

We brought her before. She's like, so she's worked since the fifties.

I mean, you guys seem like you had a in that scene at the end, like you seem very connected.

And we were. She was so sweet. We had met I think at the Independent Spirit Awards a few years prior. I think she was We were both there, I think the year that I had won and she was nominated or something. I can't remember, but we we talked about that and she just was such a warm, sweet lady.

Yes, I love that.

I love the nostalgia and everything is coming back and Halloween Town has made so many people happy for decades. How does it feel to be in a hit cult classic holiday sensation?

Yeah, moving from one cult to another, Yeah, yeah, yes.

Perfect segue there. It's incredible. It still blows my mind that the movies are still talked about and people watch them, and I mean I get approached almost daily on the street of people just being fans of the movies and sharing stories of what it meant to them growing up and how they show it to their kids now. And I have young nephews and my friends young kids that watch it now, and it's just amazing. It's had a whole other life. And I couldn't couldn't be more honored.

Yeah, just the Disney movies I was I was telling Kara, I was more of I liked the Quins.

That's the one that I was watching a lot.

I love, I love. I've never been able, I think, to do a movie since then where you get to break the fourth wall like that and like talk to the camera and narrate the whole movie. That was just it's rare and that was just such a fun aspect of that. And I and I loved all the babies. And actually my brother Dylan, my real brother Dylan is was one of the babies, like towards the end of the movie, he's.

I love that.

Yeah, he's in his early twenties now, so there's a little there's a little time perspective. But yeah, he's in the movie, and so it's a fun little little person.

I was reading they had to use like twenty babies for that movie.

It's yeah, they had like baby can't work that long. Yes, they can only work for like fifteen twenty minutes at a time, and so yeah, you would kind of we would rehearse with dolls up until the final moment, and then they would bring in one group of babies and then if one got upset, they would have to it's.

A whole stop it out.

Baby wrangling is a real thing in the industry. It's yeah, it's it's it's funny.

I did not know that there were so many babies and they could work for so little.

I guess that's good. We can't like overwork these babies.

But no, I mean I think I think it's because they're so young too, Like the industry as a whole, like when I was a teenager growing up, like the the state rules and everything of working, like you can only work a certain numbn of hours as kids too, until you're until you're eighteen, and so it's it's as

So what are you up to these days?

I saw that you have a one and a half million followers on TikTok?

What are you doing on there?

I do? It's it's crazy.

What are you? What's your content?

Fun? You know, I'm trying to keep up with the cool kids. I do just a lot of yes, comedy stuff, whatever kind of hits me is the things going on in my life that I you know, wonder if other people go through too. But it's a lot of fun. I started it like a year or so ago and thought, Okay, let's see what this is about, like you know, and it's just was astounding how it kind of took off and now it's a great place to kind of, you know, make something and it enables me to be creative and

Do you have anybody that follows you but that when they follow you you were like, oh, hell yeah.

Oh.

I was just asking another friend of mine this the other day because she got big on Instagram doing these videos and stuff, and she's like, oh yeah, little John, Oh yeah.

Well, I have to say I saw I think it was a little mass followed no mentioned Halloween Town this past year, tweeted about it and oh okay that I mean that kind of blew my brother's mind for sure. My brother, who's twenty two, was just like, what I think. Titus Burgess followed.

Me, Oh I love it.

I love him too. Yeah, kimm Schmidt is just he just was phenomenal on that and I could listen to him saying the whole time I said hi to Keky Palmer recently on Instagram and she wrote me just the sweetest comment and followed me and it was just like, oh, like we hadn't seen each other in the longest time. She's s girl, she is okay, there we go.

She was little, she was like a child. She was like a really little kid. It's cute. I mean scary there there's you know, yeah sv but she was very cute.

Cool within the SVU. Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely.

What did you guys work on together?

We actually have never worked together, I guess from you know, we were both on Disney. And then I stopped by a music video shoot that she was doing with Mary J. Blige and Ludacris. I can't remember the name of the song. It was like run Away Love. I think one of those just random things that my I stopped by to see my publicist at the time, and then she was I didn't know she was in the video and so she came out, was like hey, and so it just we've just kind of said high over the years and yes.

Wait, did you meet Ludacris? You really? You swept right on that another SVU alum.

I did not meet him then, but I do have a ludacrous story. I was back in New York actually working. I came back on The Guiding Light after I left, right before it went off the air, and he was in the same studio doing some show I don't know. But I got in the elevator to go to lunch and I ended up standing right in front of him in the elevator and we had the same publicist at the time, and so it was one of those things where I was like, Oh my god, do I do it?

I was like, no regrets. I did say, Hilda, you do you do? Yeah?

Yeah.

And another thing I noticed that I got really excited about. I'm a huge Bugs life girl. I actually have one of the character's toys right there. But were you all the little girls like in the school?

Yes, there was like a group of us that came in and voiced a lot of the Blueberry ants like that. That were all the various friends that Dot had And it was the coolest experience because they hadn't finished animating, fully animating the movie yet, and anderstand and John Laster with there like the all the sessions, which I was impressed with because you never know, you know who creatively and you know the big wigs within the company if

They're so cute.

Do you have a drawing of the answers? Did they give you toys? Do you have a memory of the ant or just in your heart?

No, in my heart for sure, it will always stay in my heart. Yeah, they were sweet. They gave us they signed us posters at the end of the at the end of the sessions. But no, I that would have been that would have been pretty cool.

Too, you know huge. Yeah, they're really cute. They are.

I love that movie too.

Do you have anything that you're working on right now that you want to like? Plug?

You're so sweet? Well, I mean, I'm I'm obviously on all the socials if people want to follow me, and uh, I have an Etsy shop called Craftily Creative that has a bunch of some like uh graphic t's and some other fun stuff that are that's Halloween Town inspired. It's kind of my love letter to the fans. And I think later this year, I'm i guest started in an episode of an animated Disney show that's coming out soon too.

I was just I was gonna ask you that too.

Do you get that like every time your episode air or someone's like just saw you.

Yes, yeah, I get DM like tweeted all of that and then somebody sometimes they put up clips which I think I reposted in my instant story but it's uh yeah, and it was it was me and Christopher Vloney like, and it's just I hadn't seen it in a while. So it genuinely tickles me to to get to go back and kind of, you know, relive, relive some of those moments.

Oh man, she was fun. She was fun, and I love that she had opinions on her outerwear. You know what I mean?

When I get to mesh on these little details with her amazing guests and uh yeah, that was like really fun. I think a lot of our listeners and friends, I know Matteo Lane will be excited and he will hit me up.

Yeah.

I for this week's post mortem, I don't know what we can say. Uh, your parents are bad, but they're not as bad as a cult that's going to try to impregnate you and leave you to get bitten by roaches.

So maybe try to work it out.

Also, come on miss Haggarty, Why did you let Samantha die like that? I know, you know, because it's like we love her at the end, but it's like, no, you let this man control you. But like maybe she was controlled. He manipulated her while she was in grief over her daughter, you know.

Yeah, maybe he was like, I'll kick you out on the street and you won't be able to help any of these girls, and she was like, okay, one to save many who knows, you know, who knows what's going through an old lady's uh mind and a cult.

But yeah, you can't clone people like I don't don't trust, don't run, I don't know, I can't any.

These Ashton puts your lookalikes that think they can change the world.

And Mila, you saw them their video.

They're matching up to three million dollars of donations to Ukraine.

Oh because she is from that region, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome, super big. I can't say the same for this fucking doctor loser.

No, he's not a real person.

But in terms of the Elizabeth Smart story, I feel like, yeah, like let's all just keep our eyes open and see in case you see it, Sketchy people in public. I mean, there's nothing you can do to prevent what happened to Elizabeth Smart.

I guess besides, like be aware of.

Sketchy people in your life, sketchy roofers working on your house.

I don't know.

I mean, don't let anyone work or live or enter your home at any time.

That's the only way to protect your children.

That's only that's Oh, and this is something we didn't talk about, but this is more worldly not for the episode, but have you seen the posts about like Kim Kardashian and Kanye and how like she's so rich and powerful and it's still hard for her to get away from like an abusive person and it's still being stalked. And yet we're so blase when we tell people like why didn't you leave, Why don't you just leave?

Why don't you live?

And it's like one of the richest people in the world couldn't leave with the most security and the most protection, And that you're asking just like random teachers to like be able to ski easily.

No, it's that's such a good point. Yeah, it's like hard for everybody, And yeah, Kim Kardashian has helped get people off death throw and she can't get Kanye out of her fucking life, like it's.

Nuts, and that now there's all these like you know, like he was controlling and he changed the way she dressed, and they're putting all these clips together from the show and how controlling he is and even all of his girlfriends he dresses all of them.

That's not for me.

It's not for me too. I also do know that the Kanye doc isn't made by him. He's not making money. These people that he fucked over had the footage and they made all the money off of selling the footage for the doc.

Oh the genius thing. Yeah wow, Well.

Not either here nor there. But this was a jam packs amazing episode.

You know the thing, if you steal something and you're running away from the cops, don't turn around and shoot them.

You're just gonna make it worse.

Just a note to all the skateboarders out there that are trying to steal shit and shoot cops. Also, I just hope that every missing person's picture I ever see, I can like photograph memory into my brain and then one day be like, I know her, I saw her, I know, I know. I wish I could be like these people. I used to think, like, oh my god, I'm going to memorize amber alerts and like you forget them the second you see them, you know what.

I mean, Like, oh, I can't.

But anyway, I do think that we learn a lot about from people like Elizabeth Smart who don't completely like collapse and even though that is completely your right if you go through something like this, but who use their experience and their trauma to sort of like educate others

If you're interested and next week's episode, we'll be control season five, episode nine and we can't wait to see you.

Such a good episode, See you guys next week.

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