Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Done done.
Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. We're back. My name is Lisa Traeger.
And I'm Kara Klank And every week we recap an episode of Law and Order SVU. We talk about the true crime that it's based on, and here and there we talk to a fun guest and before that we sort of chit chat.
And catch up. Hi, I'm curious. I'm curious. I need to know everything.
I did the Disney thing, Guys, I did it. I survived, dizzy me. We had a great time.
It was great. Uh, it's not as.
Like overwhelming as I guess I thought it was gonna be. I was like really kind of nervous about it, and like, you know, I had like a note in my phone organizing people's recommendations and stuff, and and honestly, with kids like that are really little, they kind of want to go on sort of like the more basic rides. Anyway, So we got that little Genie pass and that got us onto a lot of rides without having to wait in line.
So what are the little rides like? So you couldn't go on like the big ones? Oh, so what are the little rides done?
My Toy Story Dumbo, Like there's a toy story ride that's buzz light Year. We went on Dumbo, where Rosie had a full fucking meltdown. We went on because like the numbers were a little weird, like with our group. You know, it was my it was our friend and her daughter who is my daughter's good friend, and then
my daughter's other little bestie. Like some of the rides are perfectly fine set up for three people across, but like Dumbo, my daughter was like, I'm squaw Like she was too small, me and her and her friend in there, and I was like pressing my body up against the side as fast as hard as I could. But like it was also just the time of day where they had had lunch. They were peaks, they were acting peak crazy and then the crash was like on the Dumba ride, like she just had to have her spiral.
You know, wait, did you have a dull whip? What did you eat? What'd you get? I didn't have to get a veggie. I should have.
You have.
We went to lunch at this place that had kind of like a weird menu, and so I just sort of ate the fries off of Rosie's plate because you know, famously Rosie doesn't like French fries, so I ate her fries. This place like literally had one vegetarian dish. Our friend got it. It was kind of weird. I had a couple bites. It was good, but I wasn't like that hungry.
I didn't really We got colorful popcorn, which was the kids loved, but then was disgusting when we realized that we all had rainbow shit in our teeth, like we all had like, you know, a popcorn.
Like gets in your teeth.
Like I was like my Rosie was like, you have blue and green in your teeth, and I was like, I'm gonna throw up. But it was cute, like they like her friend kept going I want to go on the Star Wars ride, and I kept looking at the app and being like, it's a seventy minute wait, and like kids don't understand time, and we would wait in line for twenty minutes like for Dumbo, and they'd be like.
This is boring.
And I was like, you keep begging to go on a ride that's this time's four, So you guys don't understand time, so you know, you just keep saying maybe, maybe, maybe, and then you have to like avoid the things that they can't go on. But they had a great time. We did It's a Small World twice. They loved that. Oh cute, it was sweet. It was cute.
Everybody in a parade, who did they meet?
They?
Who they mean?
Oh the parade? Well they met Tigger. They met Tigger and they met Chip. You Chippendale not the cup sorry, not the cup of Chip Anddale. Sorry, share that Chippindale for you. That.
Yeah, I love Chip and Dale.
And Chip was like doing a weird thing where he would talk to he wants the kids to walk with him, like he was like he wouldn't stop, and he was just like, come on, like doing you know, they can't talk, so they're just like doing the motion. So the kids were just like walking with Chip for a few minutes.
It was really weird.
We were like, can we stop for a picture? And Chip was just like partying and like, wouldn't do it. It was weird, but Tiger stop stop. They did a picture with Tigger. They saw lots of people and then the parade is like really out of this world, Like I started tearing up.
I cried at the braid. What yeah, I cried at the parade.
Like I cried at the parade because I was like, she's like loving it so much, like she just couldn't believe. It's just like all the characters come out, you know, like they see there was a cocoa float, there was a frozen float, a Mowana float like the ma Wana floats. Really obviously where the tears started coming, Like that movie was like very much a big part of our pandemic, and like you know, like we love Mowana and I just started I also was tearing up thinking about how
much Oscar will love it when I bring him. So now I'm like, I gotta bring Oscar here. He loves these characters like more than Rosie. He loves Elsa, he loves Mauana like.
This is you know, but he's not is he old enough to have been pissed? He didn't go?
No, right, no, he's not old of the pissed, but he keep every time we talk about it, he'ps going and can I go? And I'm like, yes, next time you're coming. But I did you bring him something he doesn't like? Shit, I'm telling you, every time I bring him something, he doesn't care about it, Like he I was gonna get him a stuffy and I was like, every stuff I've brought him from one of our shows, he doesn't like it.
He does or he doesn't not like it. That's what he inherited from you.
I know.
I know he likes Oscar and you connect.
I know, and wrote that's where Rosie and you connect is that she just wants more and more, you know, cute stuff, and he like he will if I give him something that like maybe a listener gave me, or that I bought him while we were on a tour stop or something, he'll be like yay in a hug, hug it for three seconds, and then he drops it and doesn't care about it.
Ever.
Again, he does not have an attachment to stuff, which is you know, obvious from the way he throws things across the room all the time. But yeah, the parade made me tear up. And then I looked at my friend and I was like, I'm like tearing up. She goes, oh, I'm fully crying. I like didn't want you to see. Like we were both like the parade at the end is like, for some reason, really emotional.
The kids are just so excited and it's like magic, Like, well, I have a few questions. One last time our friends took their daughters, they left before lunch. Yeah, so what happened this time? Like this time she wanted she liked it. She she was a mess. Yes she yeah, she did great.
I mean we took them on thunder Mountain, you know, which is like it's kind of like a roller coaster but it doesn't go upside down, but it goes pretty fast.
Like I liked it.
It's like an old train ride or whatever, but it goes pretty fast. And I had the two girls, Rosie and her friend on my sides and they were like at first, Rosie goes, whow, I feel like.
I'm gonna throw up, like but in like a fun way.
And then she both of them just started going uh like they were not comfortable. Our friend's daughter, who's younger than them, hands up in the air, was like raging, like she loved it. Yeah, she's a little daredevil.
She loved it.
And so yeah, we were there from like We were there from like ninth I mean we left the house at seven fifteen, seven thirty, and like you know, getting there took an hour, and then parking took so long we got somehow spit back out instead of getting into the parking structure, so we had to.
Go back in.
But like I would say, in the park nine thirty to like six, we did a full, full time with the kids, and we couldn't stay for the fireworks because that would be like kind of crazy. But we so, I know, you want to know what Rosie picked.
She took pictures. I also I have a pre question. She knows that there's just a man in the costumes. So did she still surrender to the magic or was she like is that an out of work actor? No, she did.
She did, Like she didn't even ask me this time, like she did about Chuck E Cheese that one time. But she didn't even ask me. She was like, oh my gosh, tigger, oh my god. Like she you know, she wanted to who did we pass. We passed somebody and they were like, they were like, we want a picture. But the character was on their way to like a lunch break. We couldn't get them to stop, but she took pictures of all the different shits she wanted to buy.
I really thought she was going to go with a stitch, big sleeping stuffy, like one of these big stuffies that's like weighted and kind of smashing.
She ended up going with do you know the shoulder buddies? Now, I'll kind google it.
I cones, Okay, there are these shoulder buddies at Disney where you put a magnet on your shoulder under your clothes and then the buddy sits on your shoulder.
We saw a guy walking around.
With chip on his shoulder and Rosie was like, how is that staying on? And I go go ask the guy? And so she went up to this guy in line and goes, how is that staying on you? And he was like, oh, it's a magnet and showed her. And then she wanted a magnet a buddy. So she got Zero, the dog from Nightmare Before Christmas as a shoulder buddy.
Okay, let me look, I'm still so confused even with the Google images older buddies. Zero Okay, cute.
So it's like an iago, you know, yes, exactly, It like sits there like your little your little devil devil angel on your shoulder and she loved that, and as of all going yeah, and aren't you happy you didn't have to carry a giant stitch stuffy yes, yes, And we made her buy it last like we went to the shop on the way out and we're like, what do you want? Here's all the stuff you like, took pictures of it's all in the shop. Like our friend's daughter got like a frozen house with all these.
Little frozen figurines, you know, very round. So you know, I got really into these lounge Fly backpacks. I've been searching.
I've been looking EveryWare.
Yes, yes, yes, everywhere.
I kept seeing them and going, oh my god, this is so it's just like crazy because we had just been on the website looking at them together, and I kept going up, there's a lounge Fly there, like like every ten people had one, Like I've had no idea had such a hold.
And there's someone that works at the cellar and I know that her and her sister are Disney people and they take their kids all the time, so I was like, you know about lounge Fly. She goes, there's a wall in our house of lounge flies like every she just said she she is the person I was hoping to meet to truly get more and more information. But there was a woman in the front row of one of my shows in Tacoma and she had not a lounge fly but a red big Disney bag, and so I went, girl,
you're gonna love lounge fly. She goes, what is it I got. It's like a little backpack, but it's in the in the shape of stitch, and she goes, I love Stitch. I go, yeah, bitch, I knew, I knew. I got the vibe.
I can tell it was like hitch at an airport lounge. I can tell you that's one of my gifts. Wait, I told you I lost my passport, right, No. So I got back from my trip to Saint John, which I talked about on this podcast, and was like.
Where is my fucking passport? Like I know, I brought it home.
I always just like leave it like on my desk until I can put it away in my passport area where I keep all my family's passports. Can't find it for days, I dig up everything, I can't find it. So I decide to get a new passport because I'm like, I don't know, I like to have what you had and your family have me paranoid enough about what's going to happen in this country. I need to be able to escape whenever I want. And everyone has updated passports.
I was like, I got to get one. I went and I paid all the fucking money and did the paperwork to get a new one, and it's it's I mean, I won't have it for another six weeks. Today I find it hidden in a drawer in the guest room. The kids put it there. My kids have hidden it. They're not home from school yet. Oh, and this is
another thing that is related to Disney. So we're on our way to Disney and Jared goes, I think you took my keys, and I go, I didn't take your keys, and he's like, they're not anywhere.
I cannot find them anywhere.
And I'm like, that's crazy, Like I thought I saw them right on the hook as we were leaving. He's like, Nope, can't find them. And like him and Oscar are home, like I have my keys. They can't do anything with any of the cars. So I ask Rosie. I go, Rosie, did you move Dad's keys? And she goes no, like and it's a completely believable no, and then Jared sends me a picture hours later, halfway through the day that they're hit underneath the changing table in their room, and
I go, guys, what's this all about? Isabelle goes me and Rosie hid those there. I didn't say anything because you didn't ask me.
I was like, what.
So Rosie lye? Rosie lied, and Isabelle withheld information. Anyway, these children are hiding shit and they're sneaky. We did get the flag from the original flag bearer. Casey O'Brien is back in the building. Everybody and see do you want to say Hi.
Hi, thank you so great to be back. I missed you. Guys.
It's great. You want to just hold your cute daughter. We did see her on the zoom. She is perfect.
Did she liveso expectations?
Oh my gosh, she's really cute. It's wild, but you.
Know that I do. But I'm obsessed.
You probably get attention out and about, but outside your family. I feel if you take her out, people are reacting.
People like me more.
She's like a top ten baby.
People like me as a person more.
Yeah.
When I have the baby with.
Me, Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is gonna be huge for you.
Yeah, and how's your dog handling it?
You know what, Dolly almost died, So I don't know how she's she's I don't know how much longer we're gonna have Dolly around sad. Yeah, she's just not doing one hundred, I would say.
But I thought maybe how she's you know, bonding with the child.
But I'm not entirely sure she knows there's a baby in this house too.
No, no, I was thinking because I just showed my kid's lady in the tramp the other day and I was explaining to my kids. I was like, you know, sometimes dogs don't really like it when a baby comes in. You got to give them a baby blanket so that they're used to the smell when they get home and stuff.
We found Dolly sitting next to the crib occasionally, so I think, you know, maybe she's kind of senses that there's a new energy, there's a bond. Yeah, so we'll see. She could be one of those old dogs that lives forever too. I don't know.
So, yeah, have you been watching the new season of vander Pump just to you know, pump it up from that.
I'm just I'm really uh, I'm really behind. I saw the first couple episodes. I can't be questioned about that right now.
It's no questioning. I was just trying to pivot. I was just trying to pivot.
We needed to pivot from the sad state of Dolly affairs.
I'll say something. I made my first few friendship bracelets. Ooh, partansipation of the tailor. Well, I have a lot of beads and I've never made bracelets, so I'm assuming there's a learning curve, and there is the first one I made hideous, but at least it was fine, but it was hideous. Color schemes correct, Yeah, I wanted to do the lover color scheme, but it was just too loose and not patterned. It looked like shit, but you know
someone will wear it. And then the next I went too high cont because this is I've had a dream one in my head for a long time, but the word is too long. There's just too much going on and I'm not experienced enough. It took me seven tries. I had to keep destringing. I got it done, and then the next one is maybe for a six month old, so I'm hoping I find a baby because it's tiiny. And then I started one that says August and it looks like a parado. But now it's already too long.
I might have to just make it a necklace. I mean, this is I'm going to eventually do YouTube get some knowledge, you know. I just went in loose. I got good advice from someone to dab glue on the dot, like where you tie it. Oh, and they gave me a special glue because I was like gorilla glue and They're like, no, there's this other glue.
So I'm gonna like so to ndhesse the like tie. I did not know that there was so much to this. It's a whole kit. And I have clasps that I don't know how to use. So there's like a lot that I don't know and it's just the sizing event.
Actually, I have some bracelets to give you from Spokane. Oh yeah, one set well one yeah dun du whatever. One says Swifty loves us for you, and I don't know if you want it or not if I'll have both of them. Oh oh wait, did I talk about April Fools on this podcast?
Yeah?
Or know? I don't think so Okay, so soul Cycle did a real fun little April Fools where on Instagram they posted no more Tailor Swift rides. Our last ones are this week and I've been on the road, so like I wasn't even gonna be able to go to the last ones. I'm like, I can't believe they're doing this. Why would they do this? Like I got in the comments and then I realized it was April Fools. It was a joke. And then when I went to comment again, my commenting abilities were limited, and that was.
That what was your first comment? Like just swears? Like no, I was like, what the And then I was like, oh, it's a joke.
But then there was discourse in the comments and some people really I think there's too many of the classes and like people don't like it, but there are the themes and normal classes, and I was just saying, I'm like, I go out of my way for the classes that I want to go to, like some aren't as convenient, but like that's what you do. And people are like, why should I have to go to different places? And it's like, because that's life, bitch, what are you talking about.
They're trying to make money, we're we're going, so they're not going to stop.
Having one of their most successful nights. When people stop going, I'm sure they'll cut back.
They're like, and it's also the most optimal times, and it's like, yeah, then go to a d like, I don't know who you think you are that they should do everything around you. I sometimes walk out of my way, like I look at like six different ones. I chase the class that I want. Today I went to two thousands hits. Yeah. Acon, it was awesome, really fun Acon.
Egg Acon Yeah, oh god, Yeah. And then I went to get I went to get a bagel and this couple was dancing to Usher was.
Playing, and I was like, I love it here. Also I said, people sent it. I tried to get the s VU MTA card. Maybe I still have a shot. I'm I'm devastated the town. I did see that.
I did see that, and I saw that the Empire State Building was lit up for joy Our Sexual Assault Awareness Month but also the twenty fifth season of SVU, Like it.
Was like both well because I thought it would be purple for Sexual Assault Awareness Month, but it was the colors of the Joyful Heart Foundation teal or something right, Yeah, like Greens, the Blues something yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, something Murushka organized green Apple, blue raspberry y.
Well, bab malicious in my life. Listen, we do have to start wildly named episode.
Oh also, I started Succession, Yes, and I started. I mean I am in the middle of season three and it's been a week I was on Vocalist, I'd tonsilitis. Oh wait, when I.
Talked to you last year on like episode three, and you weren't sure you were going to get into it, but clearly I love it.
We are, Yeah, and I know they're terrible people, but I have learned some lessons and I like it. Yeah.
I mean, that's like sort of what they say about Seinfeld, right too, Like that you're supposed to like kind of hate the people. But I should get into it. Everyone says it's like so excellent.
I really should.
But the acting is so good. There's such funny lines. I understand why they want all the awards, but I can't wait to watch it again and catch everything without being confused over finance terms and takeovers and all that. Like it.
Yeah, yeah, The actual succession of it all seems like a little bit annoying.
It's it's just wild and there's one line where they're trying to like fuck with the family and she goes, don't you know about my family? We don't get embarrassed, And I'm like, they don't, like this is wild to watch, Like they do not get they will fuck each other. And it's just an insight to the wealthy and how much control they have over this kind of because I do watch the show as fact, and it's just some more understanding to these people, like a helicopter ride is
very casual for them. And I was like, I like seeing this and is it based on the Murdochs or the Stones or what? Yeah, I mean obviously for legal reasons, it's a mix of families, but it's pretty heavy on the Murdoch murdoc Yeah. Ye, all right, we got a second twenty minute flag in honor of Casey's return and paternity.
We wanted to keep talking just to get the second one time to start. Welcome back Casey and now presenting today's episode.
Sorry we're taking time away from you and your child, but here we are. All right.
So today's episode has kind of.
A wild name. If you ask me, it is penetration. Like I think this is the most shocking title that we've had on SVU history, right. Yeah, it's a lot for what happens in the episode a sex show for an episode to be called penetration is fucked. Yeah. Yeah. So Season twelve, episode eight, we're in the twenty tens. Baby, there's a gun. Benson is on a couch sleeping and the gun isn't she closer and closer? Benson grabs the gun and we see it's just Calvin and he's up
to no good. If you are suddenly new to this, you've never seen sview. You don't know who Calvin is, or who we are or what is happening. Detective Olivia Benson takes in wayward children when their parents are criminals.
Yes, this is the first dry run they gave at letting Olivia Benson be happy, and then they snatched it away.
They did not let it happen. No, But basically, this is Maria Bellow's son and she runs away after she realizes that she is the product of her mom's rape and she is too stressed to raise her child and she leaves and I think she kills someone. Whatever.
Can I also just say I'm finding something out right now? The actor that Calvin is Charlie Tahan and I just looked him up and he's a huge character on Ozark.
He's literally Wyat Langmore.
He's the brother of Mark Mitchaka's character who we just interviewed on our podcast a few weeks ago. And he's still acting and he's booked. He's got a lot of shit going on. He was in Gotham Castle Rock Wayward Pines, which was a psycho show I watched. I didn't even recognize that Calvin was in all of these things.
Amazing. I love to hear it. And so basically, she's like, hey, babe, let's not point guns at people. And he tells her to relax, which is bold, and he says that he thought it was gonna be funny. She's breathing so heavy and then she quickly just switches up and starts squirting him with the water gun. And it's a water gun.
Haha.
She's a fun mom. She's a fun mom. But it is after midnight and he has to go to bed, but there's a knock on the door, which is fucked, and she like looks in the peep hole and then she opens it and it's friend of the pod Marsha gay Harden oscar Win her you know, star of film and screen Dana Dana lewis FBI agent and she walks right in and asks for a bourbon, and yes, Benson has some bourbon. It's in the corner cabinet, and so Dana reaches for it. Benson's like, damn, hey, longtime, no
see are you still undercover? She goes funny, you should ask, but then she sees Calvin and she's like, and then Calvin's like, is this your girlfriend? And Benson says, go to bed. This is an FBI agent and she's gonna rest your ass. And then they all laugh and he finally walks off to bed.
But how about Calvin just clocking Benson's sort of lesbian vibe a little bit.
He's just like, this is your girlfriend?
And then Marcia gay Harden's like, when did you get a kid? And she goes, well, when his mother abandoned him and I'm trying to track down his father.
Why are you here? That's the more pressing question, babe. But Marcia Gay does need a favor. She hands Benson a brown paper bag and asks her to test a rape kit for her. Benson asks, like, who's this for? What's going on? And after Dana takes a sip of whiskey, she responds me credits don't don dunt Donald. Benson and Stable are on a roof and Kraigan's like, what's with the Cloak and Dagger which is also a store in
my neighborhood. Benson wanted to make sure everything's secret because hello FBI, and it's like a favor for a friend. She's been undercover for a year. She doesn't want the fence to know because if they know she got raped, they'll take her out of the field and she doesn't. She's like so close to the bus and Stabler's like, well they should take her out, Like we don't know who attacked her, Like what if the target already knows
that she's compromised? Whatever, Benson says, Listen, she only needs a few more days to close the case. We need to trust her, that's all she's asking for. But she doesn't know what the case is and Dana won't let them in on it. So what do we do now? Like we can't get a hold of her, and I guess we just have to wait for her to show up or a hit to come in like it's pretty complicated,
but they have to do it for their friend. So now they're all meeting in a chapel and Dana's speaking in riddles while walking in like a labyrinth painted on the floor. So Stabler says he's sorry what happened to her? And she says me too, and then is actually pissed at Benson that she brought him in at all, and Benson's like, bro, that's my partner, Like I have to
tell him, and she goes, no, you didn't anyway. So they keep trying to get clues and digging, and Dana reiterates she cannot answer any of the questions, but they have to assume it's an anti terror case because they're near ground zero at the moment. She's like, I'm on three active cases and I have to figure out which one of those My cover has been blown.
And I never asked you to investigate. All I ask for is lab results. But it's SVU, you know, these people like come on. So they keep trying to convince her to help solve the case. She keeps denying it, and Benson goes, well, what if it has nothing to do with your cases? And it's a random person, and they're going to attack more people, and then because of you,
you're not going to stop other people. And Dana, who has not stop moving on the labyrinth for one fucking second, plays the guilt card of a fragile vy, like, is that how you're gonna speak to me? And Stabler goes, really fragile. Every time I'm with you, I actually end up in the hospital while you're out there chasing down people. So, for those who don't remember, he gets shot, she saves
his life. Then there's during the Penelope what's her name Persephone or Sephone during the Persephone years, there was an explosion when they were undercovered together, so he is always injured around here. And then the guilt of Stabler being shot and exploded does finally break her, and she goes, fine, we can't arrive together, but I'll give you the address and you can meet me there. Benson and Stabler arrive at home that's like a crash pad for her job, and they're like, holy shit, this is.
Nice, and it is. It's colorful floral. Benson picks up a frame photo and goes, damn, they spent a lot of money on this one. Even the kids look like her, and then Dana pops out and says, they are my kids and this is my apartment. Okay, rich, rich and bad taste. So they ask like, where were the kids
when you were attacked. They're in DC with their daddy and they're all gonna go to Europe after this, and like they're gonna go to Europe and she's gonna clear this mess up, and Stabler goes, damn, that's like a really understanding X and she's like, yes, but we're not divorced for married twenty years. Everything is good. Alec is my rock and that's that I know. It's like shocking for him to think that a man has like children and is taking care of them. So that's why he's
confused and thought they like weren't married. But she's teaching him about the future. Stabler walks towards her and goes, well, maybe you should go to Europe and meet your family, and she's like, I don't know. Don't you want me to answer all your little questions or do you want me to go to Europe? And she begins to give a play by play of the attack. She had just gotten home from rolling around in the dirt all day and then he yoked her as soon as she walked
into the door. He was six two two twenty and wearing a mask. She elbowed him in the ribs, but he had her in a sleeperhold. She was out in four seconds, and when she came to, she was laying on the bed and he was on top of her, raping her. And she's like, fuck, I'm trained, I should be able to get out of this kind of situation, and Benson reminds her she can't prepare for every situation, and she could not move. He injected her with a paralytic agent and she couldn't even scream, but she could
feel everything and it lasted thirty fucking minutes. He left very quickly after he finished, and then after the drugs ran off, she did her own rape kit and got to Benson's house by midnight. And now she has to go back to work and they're trying to stop her and like how she can't go, and she's like, I have to go. You know, these Qurans are not going
to burn themselves. So she's playing another racist, which is incredible, and it's so funny because both Stable and Benson act like this too, you know, what I mean, like, they never want help, they never want protective detail. They want to go solve the case no matter what, even if it involves them. So I don't know why they're trying to convince her, and they're acting so shocked and appalled
by her behavior that makes no sense to me. So then, being the hypocrites they are, they finally corner her and say they will wrap her out to her boss if she does not let them help her. She said, fine, there's gonna be a crowd blend in there, and if you blow my cover, I will send you home crying. And her Bob is like, super super cute. I really like her hair. Hair. It's a bunch of people protesting no mosque here, no mosque here, bullhorns American flags and
signs about ground zero. So they think that building a mosque by ground zero is a disgrace and it's a spit in their faces, and Stabler says they got a point, and Benson goes, hello, freedom of religion. And then Dana turns around in a flannel like flannel and a vest in a baseball cap and she screams, el Qaeda is laughing at us, and you want to let them build their command center right here, and a bullhorn man walks down to meet them, and everyone turns to look, and
Benson says, it's a community center, basketball court, pool. Dania Yell's that mosque will be a monument to terrorism. Benson hates them. Dana starts to sneak off behind the bullhorn man, and then the bullhorn man calls Benson jiha Jane obsessed obsessed. Stabler's like she's a misguided man and they start walking off pissed that she ditched them. And she's being put in a minivan right now by camouflage men. And now we're in the squadroom, screens everywhere. Two photos up on
the screen. David Worthy, he needs botox, sorry between the eyes, and then there's a photo of a license plate and it just says blue van, like it's a purp. It's like the mugshot of the van. It's really funny. And he's from Akron, this guy. And basically they like let all the authorities and everyone know, like stay troopers, like don't apprehend, just notify because she is undercover. We don't know who this guy from Akron is, Like, we have no idea who's in the van. What's happening? We just
know she was pulled into it. So then Fan and Munch want to know about the case and Cragan's like, it's a secret, babes, I can't tell you about the case. And Munch gets up screaming what am I? Chop liver? How come live?
And Elle get to work Anti tear and Craigan's like, who told you that?
And It's like, well, it's Munch. She does know everything. And basically the reason he knows is because David Worthy is on six different watch sites. He's a high ranking member of SCB, which is Sovereign Citizens Brigade.
Not to be confused with UCB the Upright Citizens Brigade.
Comedy theater. Yeah, they think it's anti Muslim, But Munch is, I wonder if I mean the rape situation at UCB perractically, like bankrupting them and stuff would be an interesting SVU. Yeah, So all of them think that this SCB and all of this and this, like they're anti Muslim. But Munch is like, no, it's anti American. They don't have driver's
licenses this group, Their kids don't have birth certificates. They hate taxes, traffic laws, everything and one of their members actually took out an IRS agent, so they really don't want to pay taxes, but they're driving on roads like that's the thing with these people, they're just so stupid.
So Kragan's like call Stabler and warn his ass what they're dealing with, and then bam, it cuts to like Ohio blue plated van burnt to a crisp like the whole van is burnt, and they're like, damn, we shouldn't have let her go back in the field. We really
fucked up. And there's tons of state troopers and cops on the scene and Benson goes, we told you to notify, don't follow, and the uniform cop goes my call and it's like, okay, idiot, now everyone's burnt, Like well you talk about like you your call is dumb and you should not have a job, Like I don't understand where the standards for police are not higher than other jobs, like as a nurse, if you make a mistake, you will not be a nurse anymore. Yeah, you know what
I mean. If you are a doctor and there's malpractice and there's a suit, like a hospital will not have your back unless your doctor death. Yeah, there's just like all of these things, and I don't understand how you could be like, my cop, you fucked up, yeah, and you didn't listen to the chain of command, like fuck idiot. But only one body was found, but burnt to a crisp and I wish they didn't like fully zoom in
on him. But they show the the cop like the photo of the guy pre burnt, and they're like, was this him, and she goes, yes, that is. She's like, I saw the explosion in my rear view mirror. And Benson's like, what the fuck are you talking about. You said you were following them, so how are you behind them?
You lying bitch, And she's like, listen, I was hanging back about one hundred yards and then they lost me and they must have pulled like into somewhere, and then I lost them, and then like, while I was driving another mile, I saw the kaboom. Stabler says, okay, you keep saying they how many people were in the van? She said she counted six one female, five males, but there's no sign of them when she came back. So
now we're at the FBI headquarters. They're having a conversation with a very unhelpful man who's acting like he knows nothing. Stabler calls the guy in a van a Crispy Critter again, Crispy Critter and jeeha Jane. This is a top tier US. They show up before and after photo of him burnt and non burnt, and they want to find her and they're scared. Her cover is blown. And the driver had a bullet hole in his head before he got burnt,
So like, what's going on? And in Stabler's words, he goes, there's a hole in his head before he became BBQ.
That's funny. He probably said barbecue. I don't knowhy I said BBQ.
I know why. It's because of a Simpsons thing. But anyway, so the man's face has not changed. The FBI guy, the burntman, his face has definitely changed. The FBI man, his face has not changed. He is just stern as fuck. He does not care. And Benson's like, we can't reach her and she's not at her home. Have you heard from her? He responds like not in the last twelve months. Music plays detectives look confused. She's that deep undercover. The man leans in. Dana left the bureau about a year ago.
They're stunned as fuck. They walk out. Who the hell is she working for? Benson calls her a pain in the ass, but also like, good for her. Any of the alphabets could have taken her. The dot nsay ATFDOD thousands of agencies work encounter terrorism, and Benson goes, yeah, and that's not even counting the private sector, Like, who knows what she's doing? And how we're gonna find her? Now? What everyone's stonewalling us on every detail? You know, she spent the day playing with us. What the fuck do
we do? And they're like, well, the real target must have been and at the rally and their conspiracy theory nuts, so maybe like we should call in an expert. Done done, obviously it's mont right, Yeah, I forgot my own notes.
But also they have the address of her apartment, like they're like, where are we gonna find her?
It's like, do you know where she lives? So we're at the learning arena on thirty fifth Street and Munch and Finn are walking into a seminar hosted by Tom Marshall of the SCB on how to avoid foreclosure and what the government doesn't want you to know. Finn is like, hey, we're here to investigate. Let's not drink the kool aid, bro, and Munch's like, oh shut up, I'm scared of that.
But a man is talking at the podium. There's a draped American flag and he's talking about you know whatever, I don't care, and basically the guys interrupt his speech one of my favorite tropes, and he puts his hands up like, bro, relax, I'll give you the forms you need for freedom, like after this lecture, and nothing like a form for freedom. And then he's like there's enough
for everyone. So he just thinks they're like really excited participates of this seminar, but like there's dozens of chairs empty. There's only maybe thirteen losers here. They just walked in. What makes you think they're a fan of yours? It's pretty silly. But they see through him, and they're trying to warn the guys in the audience. Not a woman there, thank you very much. Basically they're like, don't listen to this guy. You know, he's a charlatan. And the Charlatan's
like they're just government lackeys. But they arrest him for fraud and take them away. He says, I don't recognize your authority or your laws. And it's like, okay, but you are a handcuffser, so it really doesn't matter. And then they bring him to the cement room bars and show him a picture of David Worthy and he's like, oh yeah, ohio chapter, I read his blog. I never
met him. And they show the burnt photo and the dude stares at it hard, and Saber's like, dude, the SCB boys are killing each other off right now and I don't care how or what, but they have a federal agent and we need to find her. And the charlatan says he doesn't know anything about that, and Sadler goes, well, the Feds know that you do, and they do a
stare off. Stabler then threatens him, unless you want to die in a FEMA death camp, you better start talking to me, and the guy turns a little and Stabler Warrens don't look at the mirror. So Stabler's like really like gripping onto the metal bars and acting casual in his you know, physicality, and like, oh, I'm just here to help you. And so finally the guy does break.
He goes, listen, I do know David. He started to sound crazy on his blog and said that the time for nonviolence is over and SCB is about not being violent. So he found a group that was violent, and they're called Patriots against Tyranny.
But I thought that the SCB took out an IRS agent. That's pretty violent.
Yeah, So this is the PATS Patriots against Tyranny, and they're a militia group based right here in New York. And I do love that all these secret groups have websites, Like you are trying to commit full on crimes, but thank god there's a url to visit. So they're all at the screens again trying to figure everything out. A phone rings, fin answers. Basically, a contact got beat on the PATS and their compound is in Staten Island. So
they're approaching the compound in Staten Island. There's tons of cops on the scene already, ambulance is rolling, there's bodies everywhere. Someone says it's Waco meets Ruby Ridge and then they see the dude with no emotions from the FBI office on the case and they're pissed. They're like, you looked us in our fucking eyes and lined and he's like, you never gave me the code. If Dana wanted me to share information with you, you'd know it already. And
now you're just interfering with government investigations. And Benson points and notices one of the bodies as a man who shoved her in the car, so like, where the fuck is Dana? And he says, well, after you came in saying the sky was falling, we had to try to get her out of there, but their surveillance blew our cover. So that's that. And she was embedded when the raid
went down, and she's in the house, thank god. And then they rush into the house but there's dead bodies everywhere and there's body bags lined up, and they're like fuck, what did we do? And you know there's no survivors. They're so sad, but then we do hear Dana's voice, thank god, and then she sees them, goes who let these jokers in here? And they're like, hell, yes, you're okay, and she's like, yeah, no, thanks to you. And then
she's carrying a heavy box. So I do love that she's like FBI but still acting like a normal civilian being interrogated by SVU, like will not stop doing an errand yes. She asks what part of me ditching you at the rally did you not get? I met up with a contact I've been working with for six months. Everything was under control. Saber goes, everything under control. The van got blown up. She turns around with a mean mug.
That wasn't scheduled. It wouldn't have happened if you didn't stick the state trooper on us, and Benson goes, she wasn't supposed to follow you, and Dana goes, well, she did, and you know now, the PATS plan was to kill a cop, and you guys served up a state trooper on a silver platter, and then when all of you would attend the funeral, they would just blow everybody else up.
And she's juggling a grenade as she's talking, and then she throws it at Stabler, who's so nervous, and she goes, relax Nancy the pins in it, And Benson asks how Dana stopped them, and she's like, by reminding them that all of the Pats were supposed to be there when Spark was ignited, and they were a few members short, so like they had to go get all the other members and everything would have been timed perfect if the raid went down how it's supposed to go down, because
all the big boys were supposed to come out from out west tomorrow. I'm confused.
So there was a huge explosion that took out most of the Pats, like in the raid in the house just now, Yeah, are all the dead bodies the Pats? Yeah, because they had to raid earlier to save her, because Benson and Stabler scared the FBI, so they.
Like, we have to move now. Got it. But it would have been better if they did the raid as they were supposed to.
And then they would have gotten all the West Coast people. But they're not there yet. So now there's like a whole faction of this group that's still up and running. Okay, got it. I was like confused watching it. And now they're even more angry. Yeah, they're gonna be on more edge.
They're gonna be less trusting, and they're gonna want to like event deaths yeah and FBI. Yeah. And then Benson keeps asking questions why did they kill Worthy. She's like, well, when they pulled off into the trees, he accidentally hit his brights and they thought he was signaling to the state troopers.
So they're a paranoid bunch. So where did they go? Question Mark?
There was a car in place, and it brought them straight to the clubhouse, and she says, sorry, I wasn't able to check in with mommy and daddy. Dana stares at them, pissed as hell. She's like, I had to kill three people today that I meant to take in alive.
Ooh.
Dramatic music plays as they all stare at each other. Dana breaks all eye contact and goes, where are my lab reports? And Sailor goes, well, you've been so busy. So she's angry, and she goes, please redirect all of my evidence to the FBI lab. They'll be handling it from here, you know. And we're done. Elevator doors open back at the squadroom as Benson and Stabler exit, and she says, we're not handing them over the case. We're doing it and he's like, let it go live, and
they go back and forth. She's like, this is our jurisdiction, and he's like, Dana won't cooperate with us. Let's like let them deal with her. Benson's like, give her a couple of days, then we'll go back to her, and we heard Uncha's voice. We need to bring Dana back asap. Finn and Mounts are standing in front of those screens
and Stabler scoffs at them and says, that's never gonna happen. Well, the scoop is they just caught a case where the victim was choked out and injected with a paralyzing agent and raped. So sound familiar. So a new victim not good. Her name is Jennifer Briggs, twenty seven years old. She was attacked in her sohole apartment early in the morning. She's not FBI, she's an accountant, and Benson goes, fuck. Wait.
Also, the victim in last week's episode was Layla Briggs, whoa and in the financial world.
Damn just notice sorry, keep going. So basically she's just an accountant and Benson's like, well, let's go talk to her. But sadly she was killed, so he's escalating. Benson is sad. So now they're back at the FBI offices with the stern man who is really really hot and I looked up his name. His name is Dion Graham and they're like, oh my god, thanks for helping us, Like it keeps going to voicemail. He says, yeah, the last thing I owe you to is a fucking favor. But tell Craigan
we're square. So this is a Craigan favor and I love it. I love when our little boss Daddy comes in with his connects. So Dana is there typing and they give her a shit for that, and she's like, well, usually my handler type stuff up, but since I've been benched, then Dion says, yep, you guys created a mountain of
paperwork for her, so make it quick. She has a ton of typing to do, so they break the news to her about Jennifer Briggs and how she is dead, and she reacts how I was thinking the whole time I'm with her, instead of getting knee deep in my business, you could have worked on the lab reports that I gave you and she could be alive still, and Stabler throws it back at her and says, how about if you had cooperated from the beginning, And then the two women stare at him like, come on, you know you
fucked up here, So he hands over the lab report and Dana wrestles through the papers. Fuck no DNA, So what's going on? So only way to break it is to work the pattern, and we can't do that without you. So she grabs her coat and they're off. Dana doesn't know her like this woman, so they have to branstorm. She lived in Soho. She worked in the diamond district.
That piques, you know, the interest, because Interpol was working with them.
You know, there was a diamond heist job diamond I Kiss. You know, diamonds are really the underbelly. Yeah, and she was an accountant and maybe she got caught up in the diamond jar and Stabler's like, okay, well he broke every one of her fingers, one at a time, so maybe you know she was doing something with diamonds and that was a message. And this is really upsetting to Dana. She goes, he was more brutal with her than me,
so maybe there's a closer connection. And then she remembers that after he was done, he looked at her and said, you're lucky you didn't do anything to piss me off. So we got to find this guy. We go to the jeweler company she was an accountant for, and the guy, I mean, we're also doing a diamond episode.
Two weeks in a row, briggs and diamonds. Yeah, this is wild.
So anyway, so they go to the jewelry company she was an accountant for, and the guy there is like she was a model human being, the best person she'd wasn't seeing anyone. She had a broken heart from about a year ago, and she spent most of her free time volunteering soup kitchens, community gardens, and ding ding ding ding ding. She used to write to prisoners and he warned her not to, but she liked this program and she didn't disclose her home address, and it was a
program that only reached out to Jewish inmates. So back at the sixteenth Precinct, with a list from Project Mitzvah, eight different prisoners she had been writing to that were Jewish, Dana grabs the list like, I must have a connection with one of these guys, Like I must have put one of them away. She's looking. Five are still in jail and three of them are out. So one is five to four, so he's out of the mix immediately. The other one's on a ventilator in seventy years old.
So the next guy is the only one it could be, and he is six two two forty four and released last week and is a Level three sex offender. And also, I'd like to say one of the hottest people I've ever seen in my life. He is so attractive. He is the sexiest killer rapist that we've ever had. Disa great kara, what are your thoughts. He's a handsome man. Yes, he's fucking hot. I mean better than Richard Ramier. Well, he's also an actor, not a real killer. Of course
he's going to be a looker. And we find out his mo is he did choke out his victims, so we do have to get him immediately. But he's not in the PATS. He's not an SCB. So like, who is this guy? And much is like, listen, I can say it. He doesn't look like a Jew, and so done done. We go to the Division of Criminal Justice Services and a guy with a file and a suit is like, yeah, of course he's not a Jew. He's
actually in the Aryan Brotherhood. And you know, they cataloged all his jail tattoos and he is a fucking neo Nazi and they're like, okay, well how did he end up on a list of Jewish inmates? And this guy doesn't know and says to go check with the parole officer,
but he never visited the parole officer. So they're checking in with some dude in an office in a suit, and he's the last person that this jew non jew has met with, and it was fifteen days before his release, and so the cops are really pissed and they're like, you're supposed to verify his placement, and he is sassy and he responds, I did. His aunt said she'd take him in, but then she changed her mind. And this happens all the time. Can you imagine how hard it
is to place a fucking sex offender. So then Munch is like, yeah, that's why you need to do your job, Like it is hard to place the sex offender, but you better Like Kim Kardashian, no one wants to fucking work and sets the little guy in the suit off. So he stands up for you behind the desk points and is like, I did my fucking job. He gave me an address, but a felon was living in the building. I could not approve the address and I did deny it.
But done done. We obviously have to check out the address. So Benson and Stabler are exiting the building and they're like, well that was a bust. And then wildly Marsha gay Harden is on a motorcycle waiting for them, and they're like, girl, what are you doing here? And they're annoyed. They want her to leave them alone so they can do their job and not fuck up. But she's like, well, i'm here so you don't fuck up the case. But they're like, no,
you're going to fuck up the case. You're the only witness, so you can't help investigate, and like she should know that she's a fucking FBI agent. But they're arrogant, you know. It's like it's the arrogance of at all. They're all like this. They all want to solve it. They all want to be there. Yeah, maybe she doesn't want to go to course, probably wants to shoot his ass. Anyways,
But he turns the corner he's walking. Stabler notices him first, and he says get out of here now to her, but she doesn't, and then they beg her like please let us handle it. They start walking towards him. He notices them immediately duh. As they walk, Stabler says, please don't run. My knees are killing me. The guy definitely does start to run. Then Dana fucking like on a motorcycle,
chases straight at him. They enter a construction site vibe Stabler's like, God, this bitch is gonna get us killed, like I fucking know it. They enter a room where she's pointing a gun at him, and he has a nail gun, and I don't know if that's do the nails fly? Like how does a nail gun work?
I mean, I think it would calm out, but I don't think it would hurt you.
From a It's just so funny to have a nail gun. It's like, just shoot him, dude, you're already on desk duty. What's the worst that's gonna happen. But so he's cornered and he's like, arrest her. She's wild. She's like, you're scum and it's a fair fight. Let's go, babe, all guns up. He slowly puts down the nail gun and says uncle, and they keep yelling at her like stand down, let us handle it, but she can't and calls them a filthy coward. While approaching closer, a gun up tears
in her eye. She says, make peace with your maker any last words, and they're like, no, she shoots uh ah ricochet. So the bullet actually hits Eliot Stabler and he is injured for the third time. Dealing with Marsha gay Harten three episodes, three injuries for Stabler, and she's like, what happened? You're an FBI agent, you know it's like the beam ricochet. Come on, girl, but like you should be better at shooting. You should know if the ricochet happened. Like,
I just I don't like what they're doing here. So also, we expect people to act normal and abnormal circumstance, and we know that's a lesson we learned a long time ago.
We also find out, sadly in an episode that we've already covered, that Dana Lewis has a bit of a screw loose, you know, like we do find out that she's capable of things that we didn't expect. Wow, So at this point we've covered three out of her four episodes, So that's really cool. Yeah, did we not ask Marcia gay Harden about riding the motorcycle?
I feel like we didn't, and I would really love to know.
Are we sure we didn't? Because it was also like our fourth interview. Ever, like, I bet we don't know. I'm not positive, but I'm gonna go back and listen. I also, I wonder if I asked like that guy was hot.
I know we talked a lot about in that, you know, later in that we talked about a lot of stuff like crying on the stand and.
Stuff like that, because she's such a good actress and makes good choices.
So anyways, we're in the hospital. Stabler's shirtless and he looks good, but he just got hitting the shoulder, so it's not too bad. And she walks and with flowers and a stuff barren blue, and she's like, I'm so sorry for shooting you. She's like, I fest up to everything. They took my gun away. I'm suspended without pay, Like, do not worry. He's like, you should be. You are out of line. You shot at an unarmed man. She goes, yeah, yeah, that was uncalled for for sure, you know, after he
raped and tortured me, touche. And then Stabler goes, yeah, I heard you also try to crash the interrogation, and she did, you know They've been at him for twelve hours. It's really frustrating because he's only confessed to raping and murdering the other victim. There was DNA left behind on her, and so that does make Dana's face fall. She's like, what the fuck, Like, why is he denying like mine?
But not this other victim who's dead, Like you would deny the dead victim, right, not the live victim that can testify. Yeah, So we're at Cemtent bar rooms and he's denied, deny, deny, and Benson's like, bro, you're already doing twenty five to life for Jennifer, Like why not confess. He's like, that's not my type. But it's not true. All of his victims are very different. We look at past victims, young, old white Asian mother, doctor student, like
everyone's kind of different. But he's looking at you know, the photo the pictures of his victims on the desk, and he goes, this is bs, like I shouldn't even had to serve time for any of this because they were begging me for it. And he's like, yeah, I work the door and they were all over me. She goes, they were trying to get past the rope, you idiot, Like no one was actually flirting with you. He goes, well, they gave me their address, and Benson looks at him,
disgusted you were carding them. Benson goes, listen, both of them rejected you when you asked them out, just like Jennifer. She stopped writing him when he asked to send nudes, and she didn't want to send nudes. So it's like rejection really gets him going, so like she wouldn't send nudes. The girls at the door didn't want to fuck him, and so he goes and attacks, and then he's like she was looking for a husband, like why write to
me and not send nudes? And Benson lean's closer and goes, I don't know, why did you sign up for a Jewish pen pal service if you're a neo Nazi? And he says he hung out with them for protection and that he always had a thing for jew girls and their freaks in bed and Craigan in the Strawberry Blondie, we don't care about her. So she's complaining about stuff and Craigan is like, shut up, shut up, I don't care. But it is three hours to raiment, so she needs
something and then she runs off in a hurry. Now Benson gets tagged out for munch and Finn and they're going at him and he's again denying, denying, denying, And now we have even more evidence though, and it's the same paralyzing agent used with Dana as the same with Jennifer. And he's like, what, I can't possibly be the only creep with that, and munch agoes, listen, you seem dumb. You are way too dumb to come up with this idea on your own. Who fucking helped you do this
on the inside? And he responds by going lawyer and he's smiling and he's so fucking hot. So then Strawberry Blonde Benson and Dana are having a meeting and basically this hot rapist wouldn't plead out and we have to go to trial, which means that it makes Dana very very mad because she's on the FBI. She can't let people know this happened to her because on the stand she's gonna have to say everything she should have been
able to handle her. And she's like, you have him for the murder, like, leave me out of this, and Strawberry Blanc goes, listen, it's an obligation. I have to prosecute this case. So she threatens to subpoena danum. Benson says it's the only way to ever find peace, and Dana just walks out. The next scene, walks straight into a cell block in prison, as Olivia chases her like no, no, it's a bad idea, and Dana goes to confront him and does not care about compromising the case in any capacity.
Dana says, we need to talk, and he says, why so you can shoot me again, and she responds that if she wanted him dead, he would already be dead, but she wants an explanation why her. He walks over and says, dream on, lady, I don't know you. She knows it was him, and she wants answers, and she knows his voice and smell. He says dream on and yells for a guard to get this crazy broad out of there, and she just keeps going, why me, why me? What was in it for you? Why me? Tell me?
Why you rape me. Benson pulls her away and towards the exit, and he leans on the bars and whispers, bye bye, sweet Dreams. I know I will. So we're in Core and she is on the stand and Hashihurowitz Baby is the defense attorney and he is doing a good job, but like, also, Dana did shoot this man so and she didn't do a voice lineup, like she didn't see him. It's not looking great. She broke a lot of rules. She knows it, and I don't know if Strawberry Blonde is going to be able to work
like out of this. I don't trust her. And then Hashi accuses Dana of doing all of this for attention and how there isn't really any evidence at all that she was raped except her word, and she gives him a chilling and evil stare, like you fuck or you're lucky, I'm in a witness box, and he says, your word isn't even worth much anyways, and a loud, powerful objection that gets withdrawn immediately, and he goes and sits down
all proud and scum like. And then she asks to redirect, so the judge allows it, and she asks Dana, like, on the evening of the rape, when you enter the apartment, what the first sound you remember hearing? She said, an oof for elbowing him in the ribs and he was
choking her during it. Did he ever say anything? And she says, oh, yeah, he was a talker, she says, when on the bed, he was chattering on like a bunch of sex stuff, and they pressed her to talk, and she doesn't want to, and so she takes a deep breath, licks her lips, looks off and then down and then straightforward, and then finally answers. She's like, he was unbuttoning my blouse. He commented on her bra you know,
he called her a dirty little slut. When he ripped the panties off, he told her like he knew she couldn't move, but he did hope that she was awake for it. He slapped her, he bit her, you know, she heard him on zip his pants. There's just like a lot of like slow, painful details going through and as she's speaking very slow and pained, it takes a while to get things out the camera pants to the rapist. And they need to not cast such hot men as criminals.
It's like way too much. And by the way, his name is Jeremy Davidson, and his IMDb photo he is in a turtleneck and looks friendly. So he's a working actor and I think he should be more busy. But anyways, he's enjoying watching her have a hard time on the stand and hearing everything that he did to her, and she continues, he pulled my jaw open, I couldn't breathe. He said that she had a velvet throat. He put
his fingers inside of her. And as she's talking, like a stream goes down her face in tears, and she looks down, closes her eyes, says that when I felt his body and belly on me, and like again, tears are now streaming down her face. She's clearly an Oscar winner. So then she says that he said to her, you sure are a star. And then the shot goes on to Benson and she's pained hearing her friend's testimony, but then an aha moment occurs and she looks up with
a determined look on her face. Back to Danas, she says, I just wanted to die. She sniffles. The judge is even so upset and moved by this testimony. She shifts in her seat and discomfort before calling a ten minute recess. Dana runs off the stand, giving the rapist a dirty look, and then Benson grabs her and says, he called you star, and then she realizes what this means too, So now we're back in the squad room and if you know, you know, and if you don't, Star was her undercover
alias name. And in the first episode she was in Raw where she pretended to be this neo Nazi leader's girlfriend. And I love this twist. It shocks me every time. One of the best SVW moments of all time. Like
I am obsessed with this episode, this moment everything. So we're back at the squadroom and we have photos up of the big Nazi Brian Ackerman, and basically, you know, Star not only was like undercover Nazi tricking him, she did shoot his son dead in court, but he deserved to get killed, you know, he brought a gun into the courtroom. He was shooting people. There was another killer, like the judge got murdered, people got shot on the stand.
Someone screamed Race Trader and then the little guy was gonna kill Stabler and so Star aka Dana aka Marsha gay Harden Pepoud and killed the teenage son. So I hope I have described that well, yes, I mean Raw is like a top three episode, like it is my favorite, yeah yeah yeah.
And Munch gets shot in the ass. Yeah, and he gets like a fig or date milkshake. It's just and that the crime I mean, sadly is in Skoche, my hometown. It's that episode of SVU is very meaningful. But for us it's very meaningful because like being able to have Marcia gay Harden on our podcast really like yeah, meant a lot to us.
And it's just it's all amazing. But yeah, So Brian Ackerman, the main NAZI, only knows her as Star. He doesn't know her fucking real name or anything about the FBI, and Dana is like, damn, I should have put it together myself. Fuck but she hasn't used that alias in over four years, but it is the only name he would know where as and he's doing life in Attica where she put his fucking ass. So we go to Attica and there's a big, old nice fan in the cement room bars, which is wild in Attica, the core
to the blades, like the heaviness of a fan. What are we talking about? Which reminds me I do want to go off topic for a second. So you know, after like my new Travis Kelsey thing and New Heights podcast, a lot of my Explore page just sports now and I'm really into Edelman this like sexy former football player from the Patriots, right, yes, but like such a funny thing came into my feed. You know the MMA Irish
guy McGregor, So he's kind of wild. He gets arrested, like you know, I think he's kind of like a whatever, Ireland's version of White trashes who's made it, and he's very good or maybe bad. I don't know about MMA and any capacity. But he was going to fight this other guy. So I think it was Edelman's podcast, and this guy Dana White, he's the head UFC guy, he's
the commissioner. So there I this clip where basically one of Connor McGregor's friends was in Vegas and one of the guys that Connor was supposed to fight slapped him. So the friend called Connor and Ireland told him what happened. This motherfucker grabbed all his fucking thug friends. They got on a private jet. He got a private jet from Ireland, flew to Vegas and they just attacked the bus where
all of them were inside. And you see him picking up a dolly, like a metal fucking giant dolly with wheels, going break the windows and it's like forty irishmen getting off of a jet. I'm exaggerating, like twenty like twenty irishmen just running from a jet, running down into the garage of like the MGM where the tour buses with these fighters. And this guy picks up a dolly with one hand like it's like it's a cup of coffee, throws it at the bus. They're breaking the windows trying
to fight. And then you know the UFC they always like meet to like get weight in front of everyone, and he's like, you fucking saw me in the bus. Why didn't you come out, motherfucker? And they're fighting, but then he lost the fight to him, like the real fight in the ring. But Edelman was just saying how tough it is for like a commissioner, Like he had to put his commissioner back, like on he had to do work. Connor got arrested, Yeah, doing all this to
the bus. But like what a great friend. Can you imagine? You text me going someone was mean to me. I get a jet, I get thirteen of my thug friends and we fly and I start trying to beat the shit out of your enemy.
I don't really want you to do that for me, but thank you I don't have the strength to do it.
But then also it's like the number one pay per view of all time, Like all of this obviously built so much.
Yeah, it feels like I'm sure it's all real, but it's also great free pr you know, I.
Mean, he fully got arrested, but I think he's nuts. Like I think it's like you're poor and then you make it and then you kind of act wild, you know what I mean.
Also, getting pummeled your brain is like not doing great.
Oh yeah, it's so gross. During the press conference, both their ears are just disgusting.
I can't watch UFC. It's like two, no, I don't either, you're violent.
No, But I'm also it's like cut together because it's on YouTube shorts, so it's like him and his suit on a probably a different time walking to a jet, but it's him in like a well fitted, tight suit, like fucking walk into the jet. I just loved all these Irish guys, you know. I found it on Saint Patrick's like around Saint Patti's stace. I was like in the mix of it all. But also, do you know the Jake Paul guy, you know Logan Paul Jake, Yeah, yeah,
so he's become like this fighter. He's fighting Mike Tyson this summer. Wow, and Mike Tyson better win. But he is sixty. Yeah, I mean, if he needs money, it's fine. But like I mean, Mike Tyson has so many issues in so many cars. It's not like he's a hero of mine in any capacity. But I just think it would be really embarrassing for him to lose two a guy who's only been boxing and fighting for four years.
But also you're sixty, Broah, I don't know how that's gonna go down.
I went on a deep Paul dive too, because Jake Paul is he's dating a speed skater, like Nordic's speed skater, a six time world champion. So I obviously looked at every post she's ever made, like she's like a sexy blonde speed skating bombshell. But I'm not a fan of these brothers. I don't know, I don't care, but I just I think it's because my dad was a boxer and as a kid I watched it with like Mike
Tyson was a big figure in her home. I would say, yeah, and just culturally, you know, the pigeons, the face even out you know he's a SVU alam as well, and.
But he's a rapist, yeah, and a's domestic violence person.
But I don't know. It's just like he'd better be making a ton of money because I just don't know why you would like risk your boxing legacy. Yeah, you know, on losing to an amateur who works hard. But I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm interested at that end of the day, I'm interested, and that's what they're trying to do. The only thing that spun me into
that sidetrack was because of the big as fan. I just didn't like that the fan was in the cement room bars that is, you know, they can't even have forks, you know what I mean. You can't even have a Bobby pin in there, so like, why would a giant fan with a cord be in there? But whatever, Brian Ackerman, he's sitting in his prison outfits. Smug as fuck. Longtime no see, Dana says, with her arms crossed as Benson and Stabler stand behind her like a girl singing like
group position. She asks, how's prison treating you? And he says it's given him a whole new population to educate, and that his Nazi community is stronger than ever facts honestly, twenty twenty four, Brian Ackerman, you have succeeded. And then Stabler goes, really, we have a black president now, and Brian's like, yep, heard he was a Muslim, and Dana still arms crossed, walks closer and asks how much he paid that dude to track her down and rape her,
and he goes, ah, it was a bargain. Then asks if she enjoyed herself, and Benson's like, oh, you're confessing. He's like, yeah, I'm already doing life. Like what else is there? And he's still acting like smug smarmye, and he goes, I mean this hardly makes this even for you killing my son Kyle. But it's a start, I guess, And then Stabler jumps in to answer the question earlier what else can they do to him? He's serving life, So he goes, no more band of losers to talk to,
no more privileges, enjoy your lifetime spent in solitary. And I know we're morally against solitary, but it doesn't that what we have to do to this guy. Yeah, I mean he shouldn't be around other people, yeah, or he should just be around non white people like they have to put like they should put him only with non whites.
Yeah, and he has to just shut his fucking little mouth. Yeah, but I don't think they can split the jail like that. But he smiles andans closer onto the table to Dana and smugly says, Hey, do you know what's gonna get me through? Star replaying everything Coleman did to you. She responds, names Dana, and I'm gonna get past this. I'm gonna go home to my loving husband, and I'm gonna watch my kids grow up. Unlike you, I'm going to have
a life. They stare at each other, his hands clasped on the table, and he realizes, Oh, I guess my life is gonna get worse.
She walks off, head held high. And that is Dick Wolf Baby. Ooh, a wild one.
We got an FBI agent on a motorcycle avenging her own rape.
I mean it's a lot, okay.
So obviously we check a lot of sources to figure out where episodes came from, but sometimes we check the SVU fandom wiki that has a comprehensive list of a lot of rip from the headlines episodes, and this one says partially rip from the nineteen ninety one crime thriller Point Break.
What what what?
I have no idea what this has to do with Point Break at all, so I did not go ahead and list that.
There's a couple of things.
The first thing that this is based off of is the Park fifty one project, which was very controversial, and like the protest that Dana brings the detectives to, is based on the actual controversy surrounding a building in Lower Manhattan that was originally called Cordoba House but now is known as Park fifty one, and it was intended to be a thirteen story Islamic community center and mosque that
was close by to ground zero. It was going to have an auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, and a memorial to the victims of the September eleventh attacks. It was modeled after the JCC on the Upper West Side, which was very close to where I lived and I
used to pass it all the time. It was also designed to hold a prayer space for one to two thousand people, but its proposed location was two blocks from ground zero the World Trade Center. So around the time of this episode, twenty ten, this controversy is really raging around the country. It was kicked off by conservative bloggers, of course, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. I think the
Charlotteville guy was Richard Spencer. So Spencers are all over the racism world, I guess, and they are the founders of a group called Stop Islamisation of America. They're the one that started calling it the ground zero Mosque, despite the fact that it was not at ground zero, nor was it meant to primarily be a mosque, like it was going to have a prayer area.
But it was not a mosque.
It was a community center, exactly what Benson is saying in the episode. But it was you know, it was six hundred feet from ground zero, it's not the exact
same spot. And this became a huge issue because it was the twenty ten mid terms, and you know, people were protesting the building saying it would be quote a victory marker for Islamic extremists, which is sort of what Dana is saying in the episode, like we're just going to put the headquarters up here in this and KTA thinks they won, and it's like, that's not what this is. And what's funny is that the majority of Americans opposed it being built, but the majority of Manhattanites were fine
with it being built. Because when you pull America, it's like, you don't even live in Manhattan. You don't understand what kind of city like New York is.
Well, I'm always talking about that. They're always like, Ala New York. And it's like, then let us rot. Yeah, if you hate us and us dumb liberals in our cities, I don't get why you won't just let us fucking fail that like get away from us.
That why is this such a why do you care what we're doing? I know, I know, growing our food and stay out of our lives.
Like probably most of these people wouldn't even come to.
New York if it wasn't to protest this thing being built, which they thought was like an affront.
To their patriotic way of life.
So a lot of families of the victims of nine to eleven spoke up about it, and they, like a lot of them, were like, it doesn't even really have to do with a political stance. They just thought it was insensitive to build it six hundred feet from where their loved ones peraged, because they were like, you know, a lot of them the nine to eleven attackers said that they did this in the name of Islam, and then you're going to put up an Islamic building, So
they thought it was disrespectful. But eventually it was approved to be built. In late September of twenty eleven, a temporary Islamic center opened up at the Park fifty one location. In twenty fourteen, the plan pivoted to make it a three story museum and per space plus luxury condos. Twenty fifteen, it's going to be a seventy story luxury condo building. Twenty sixteen, it's set to be a forty three story condo building with an adjacent Islamic Cultural museum and the condos, which.
Were called forty five Park Places.
Started construction in twenty seventeen and apparently were almost done in twenty nineteen. I think they're done, and then the construction of the Islamic Cultural Space had not begun as of twenty twenty four and when you go to the Park fifty one website, there is info about prayers, but they seem to be taking place at a different location
in Lower Manhattan. And then as of December, the New York Post was reporting that the Park fifty one building was facing foreclosure because of like a debt that hadn't been paid or something. So it was a dark time I think where everybody was acting like Islam is equivalent to the terrorists who did nine to eleven, which it
is not. So that's what that was based on. And then the rest of this case was based on the case of Matthew Hale involving Judge Joan Lefgo which if you've been listening to us since the beginning, Lisa did cover this, amongst other crimes in.
The episode our third episode ever, when we covered raw.
So I'm just going to do a brief refresher because it's connected to this episode and it was so long ago, and maybe some of you have joined us and didn't start from the beginning. So Matthew Hale was a white supremacist leader in Illinois who ran a hate group called the World Church of the Creator WCTC, and Judge Joan Lefkow presided over a trademark infringement case against his group
in two thousand. The year two thousand, so another a religious group had like trademark that name, and Matthew Hale's group had never opposed the te trademarking, therefore they kind of really didn't have any rights to it. She ultimately ruled against him and ordered him to stop using any
Church of the Creator name. He tried to fight it, and in the aftermath of the ruling, Judge Lefgow was docks to her address and pictures of her family were posted on Stormfront, which is a neo Nazi website that I did visit today to just see if it was still up, and I hope that never gets brought up in like my search history for anything. But it is still up and is like about you know, white supremacy. And Anthony Evola, who was Hale's security chief turned FBI informant,
recorded him talking about killing the judge. So I think the connectioneer is like somebody doing something to somebody, but it ends up being a sex crime in this case not just a murder. But on January eighth, two thousand and three, Hale is arrested on charges of plotting to murder Judge Lefgow and it went to trial in April of two thousand and four, during which the FBI informant also Evola, got death threats as well. So you know, the Nazis were very upset that Hale was being tried
for his crimes. So before he was convicted, Hale, who at the time was thirty three, spent two hours defending himself to US District Judge James Moody. He was babbling on about Thomas Jefferson, calling the FBI the Gestapo, and he even quoted the Star Spangled Banner, and he would apparently, according to the La Times, he would quote mock prosecutors
and glower at FBI officials nearby. Even though this guy is surrounded by US marshals, he's got the nerve to be like shooting dirty looks around the courtroom, and he's saying stuff like I shouldn't be serving time for this, like you guys are liars, Like this is not I didn't do anything. The judge doesn't buy it, and on April seventh, two thousand and five, he was sentenced to forty years for his plot.
To kill the judge.
Meanwhile, just five weeks earlier from the sentencing, judge Lefgal's husband and mother were murdered in the judge's home on the North side of Chicago. The judge judge came home to find her husband, Michael Francis Lefcou, aged sixty four, and her mother, Donna Grace Glenn Humphrey, eighty nine, in the basement, both shot multiple times. There was evidence of a break in. There were twenty two caliber bullet casings
found at the scene. They also got a fingerprint, a bloody footprint, a soda can, and a cigarette butt in the sink. So this guy was Richard ramirezing about basically just like leaving so much evidence, and Hale was initially a suspect. They thought he might have orchestrated this from prison, and that is where SVU went with that episode that Hale is organizing this like revenge campaign on a judge, which obviously they moved because they could get Marshall Gay
Harden to an FBI agent in this episode. But on March ninth, about ten or twelve days after the murder of these family members of this judge, in West Allis, Wisconsin, local police stopped a van for a routine traffic stop and as the police officer approached the van, the driver named bart Allen Ross, age fifty seven, shot and took his own life, and later a sumer side note was found confessing to the murders of Lefsko's husband and mother. So Hale was cleared of that, but he's still currently
in jail. He's not supposed to get out until like twenty thirty six, and he'll be like sixty three, but hopefully he.
Doesn't get out.
But this guy Ross, bart Alan Ross had also sent a handwritten letter to a local Chicago TV station describing breaking into the Left Go home and his plan to kill the judge. His DNA was matched to the cigarette butt that was found in the sink, and his deal is basically Lefko had dismissed a case that he had been suing for medical malpractice. This man Ross had been a financially stable worker with a home, and then he
contracted a rare mouth cancer. He had to go get multiple surgeries and treatments which did get rid of the cancer, but he was left disfigured and in constant pain and financially in debt, and he was living in his van. So he killed the judge because she threw out his malpractice case, and it's a really sad story of desperation in our broken medical system, but it is not an excuse to murder people. So that's what ended up happening
with that. It was not orchestrated by Hale, but there is obviously a connection that we've covered before that Matthew Hale seems like a Brian Ackerman copy, so that's where they based him. And yeah, that's just a little refresher on that, and if you are interested, go back and listen to season three, Lisa goes more in depth into him and his organization and other murders that happened as
a result of these organizations. But also you can listen to our interview with Marcia gay Harden, which was pretty fun.
Yeah, you know, because of American history X, you feel like maybe a Nazi can learn a lesson in prison, But I think it's just the Nazis congregate and they become bigger Nazis.
And radicalized people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
But also I feel bad that this guy's case got dismissed with the medical stuff and then a mom and a husband being just demolished in a day. Really a sad clusterfuck of not good things.
Yes, And you know, maybe this man would have been able to find the judges home if Hale and his Nazis hadn't doxed her. You know, like he may not have been able to actually locate her, but her shit was all over the internet. You know, this judge, this poor judge. I think she's still working, but she she testified for Congress about like the protection that judges need sometimes, because I mean, this isn't the first case we've talked
about a judge getting having attempt on their life. So people definitely see judges as the scapegoats for their pain and suffering when they get sent to jail.
But then again, we also.
Talked about those awful judges a few weeks ago with Crush who sent kids to jail for no fucking reason. So, uh, you know, nobody's perfect, but you know who's perfect.
Our guest.
We love talking to him, and stay tuned because it's coming right up. Okay, today's guest has an insanely impressive acting resume. He's in two of the movies that were recently nominated for Oscars, American Fiction and Killers of the Flower Moon, which is just one of the five Martin Scorsese films he's been in. He's also been in five episodes of SVU, and two of them as the terrifying Brian Ackerman.
Please enjoy our chat with J. C. Mackenzie. Oh my god, Hello, Hello, my gosh. We are so excited to talk to you today.
Oh my god.
I don't understand. I know we're going to talk about penetration, but your episode raw is top five favorites, if not top three for us. Really one of the first we covered on the podcast, when Marsha gay harden on, you are so evil and good as the head Nazi.
It's weird as the head Nazi that looked like I couldn't control a boy scout troop, very very frighteningly young. Yes, my wife was saying you could do it now you look like a Nazi, but.
You'd barely grown into your Nazi look.
Yeah, yeah, I haven't been told before it.
Thank you, Brian Ackerman. So good. I mean, when you walk into the precinct and you're just like Hillary Clinton line do they even hire white? I mean, still relevant today? Amazing.
You know, it's funny. I think we did that about seventeen times. And my coverage was of course the last and so Marcia Gay, who couldn't be more nicer, so nice, wee kind, energetic, supportive, empathetic, you know, she said, you know, during my coverage, you've lost a bit of it. So we had to go back and to capture, you know, the spontaneity of what we had initially. But yeah, that
took forever. I always get so nervous too. I'm usually on klonipin just to settle me down, you know, so I look a little bit like I'm on narcotics most of the time while I act.
That's so funny, which is true.
I'm slightly stoned.
Perfect perfect, No, that's so funny what you were saying about, well, you're Nazi looking too young or whatever. Because I don't know if you know this, but on your IMDb it says that your trademark is quote often plays characters who are smarmy, corrupt, or unsympathetic.
I love personally.
We should put that on a T shirt for you.
Yeah, I love that. I think it's much more interesting to play these characters, and you know, the trick to playing them is to be as normal sounding as possible.
I've had a lot of friends of mine because I'm attracted to the insane, who are really you know, they tell you things like they're hearing voices out of you know, light boxes and things like that, and they sound so together and normal you believe it, so you know they abhorrn't crazy shit I'm saying in the episode was you know, it's difficult to say that shit, you know, especially now it's completely changed. That was like what twelve years ago that episode?
Yeah, no, it was seasons fourteen years ago.
Fourteen years ago.
So I mean, your little son he says the N word to I see. It's kind of shocking.
Oh yeah, you know, it'd be interesting, is that. Has that ever happened in recently?
No, that might be the only N word in SVU history on NBC maybe even yeah.
Yeah, yeah, there's other like little racist slurs, but not that one.
Yeah yeah, not that pointed obvious.
Yeah, well that was a big scene when you walk into the precinct, but also the courtroom obviously shootout that probably took a long time as well.
Yeah it did you know that that was a if I can recall, it was a heavily choreographed thing because cameras had to shift from one person to the other, which is always for me kind of a nightmare because if it's an ordered sequence and you fuck up, it's not good, you know. Yeah, but all of those guys are Chris and she's nuts.
Man.
She is so kind. It's so weird because she's been on the show for literally a quarter of a century Marishka.
Yeah.
Yeah, you'd think she gets sick of, you know, dealing with the guest stars and storylines and lines themselves, memorize the lines themselves. But she is a trooper and they love her over there, and it makes sense.
You know.
Yeah.
No, We've talked to like one hundred and sixty plus actors and every single one of them just has the nicest things to say about her, like not a one, not a one complaint.
Yeah yeah, it's kind of unusual. Most of them aren't like that.
Yeah, so we've heard, well, you probably have all the gossip.
You've been on every show ever. You know, all the looney tunes out there, I.
Know all the louned, I know all the people you don't want to be dealing with. I'm not going to say him here because I want to continue to work.
Yeah.
Yeah, No, that's funny because also in your IMDb. There's like a big article that you did where you're talking about how you've had directors scream at you and you'll pull them aside and say, you know, don't talk to me like that, and like how that's just not the way to get good work out of actors and stuff.
That takes a lot from me. I was born and raised in Canada, where a confrontation was it handled best passive, aggressively or you know, stoically, if you will. But some of these guys are so fucking rude. Can I swear?
Yeah?
Please? We never stop.
They're so rude, you know, at my age, it's just just so demeaning to be yelled at and there's no need for it. It doesn't create good work, causes tension on the scene. You know, you can tell when a director is really really tight and you know, over officious, and you know, the best directors, I think just let actors go. They've hired, they've done their jobs. The majority of their job is done when they hire the actor, and they can shift and you know, subtly move the
actor one way or another emotionally if they choose. But you know, I got a lot of friends they're like, I don't give a shit agging yell at me, they pay me, I don't care. I'll do what they want, which is true. I mean I've been fired, which it really didn't bother me actually, because I knew they were being so ridiculous early in my career. If that had happened, though, I'd implode and you know, quit the.
Business, devastating.
Well, And you would know about directors because you've worked with like, you've worked with Scorsese multiple times, You've worked with Aaron Sorkin, you really have, and then you've done tons of television, so I'm sure you've worked with like everybody at this point.
Yeah, yeah, the good ones are all they're all the same, they're all like you know, it's different with TV and film. I'm sure I'm stayed in the obvious. But because TV's so quick, you got to get like twelve to fifteen pages a day, sometimes more. You got to move on. They can't spend time. You can't improvise a lot at all sometimes, which for me is I like a free and easy sort of set, if you will. And all the major directors aren't going to sound pertentious, but all
the major directors that I've worked with. Are they all do the same thing. If it doesn't come out of your mouth naturally, say something else. It's not Shakespeare. We're just trying to get the point as long as you're honest. Just be honest, so you know, listen, I don't know what I'm saying.
No, it makes total sense. And I agree, Like, if you want to get the best workout of someone, making them stressed or word perfect or all of that is not going to lead to, like you said, a natural good performance, like if you're on edge thinking you're going to get yelled at. Yeah, I do want to know about the firings if it's not too U was it like on set?
Oh? Yeah, it was horrible, man. I was just like, I play a lot of lawyers and doctors and people that are actually smart and I'm not. So somebody says, you know, it's ironic because you're dim, But I play all these like, you know, super smart, really aggressive lawyers. I guess that comes from me talking quickly or I used to talk quickly, but you know, sometimes like I had. The last firing was about four or five years years ago, and I was doing a very large guest star on
a show I got the offer, which is great. I love getting offers more than anything. I don't like auditioning, so that was great. So I was up in Toronto and I just didn't have the dialogue and it was rather flowery, sort of poetic dialogue, and I did it in front of a group of seventy five to maybe one hundred and fifty extras and they were all looking at me like, I can fucking do this better. I mean, this guy's this guy's bad. So well that was happening.
I'd see a group of producers in a corner going looking at me and going it's not gonna work. And so the executive producer came up to me at launch and said, we're going to have to let you go, and I went.
What why, I'll get it. Just give me a moment, you know, I'll fuck up a couple of times. But then he started off, I'll do it one more time, and I'm going to start clicking my fingers, and I said, what's that going to do?
First of all, you're gonna hear that. No, we're gonna do a rehearsal and I'm gonna click my fingers and that's how fast you're gonna go and I went, that's it. I'm fucking done. I'm gonna be fired, there's no question. I called my manager at lunch. I said, I'm gonna be fired. She said, you are not going to be fired. They never fire anyone me whatever.
Oh my god, do you still get paid because the contract signed?
Yeah?
I totally got paid.
Hell yeah, great, Jesus, that's wild.
Couldn't be tell telling stories because you have an enormous fan base.
Okay, well we'll put out We'll try to put all the clues together.
Yeah, they're gonna be checking through IMDb. They're sleeps. Yeah. I was just gonna say, you were talking about playing lawyers.
So you do this iconic Nazi character in this episode Raw, which, like we said, is one of our tops. Then five seasons later, they're like, hey, do you want to pop back in and just do this like jailhouse scene as the same guy, And you're like, yeah, I'm free. I'd love to Nazi again. Look that look on your face and you're like so intense.
Marcia gay Harden's lip gloss was so shiny and perfect, and she's like being vicious and you are left thinking alone there, I don't know. It's such a good end of the episode.
Yeah, oh, that's very kind of you to say, I don't know what I'm doing half the time.
You could see your character really being like quite the boss in jail, you know, in prison, like organizing and commanding respect.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, weirdly where he can gain respect, you know, with the isolated groups that tend to happen in prison. I guess he right, Yeah, certainly has control of the neo Nazi section. But man, those are fun characters to play because, as they say, they're much more, you know, in terms of dimension. Then it's really hard playing a nice guy. I know that's weird, but you know, there's not the play how do you play nice? I mean,
Canadians all saved. They're nice, but they're not nice. They're as mean as we all are down here. That's why I moved to New York, where everyone just said, you know, you know, when people like or hate you, it's like, you know, and they'll tell you to fuck off right away.
Yeah, that's true.
There's none of that, Like, I don't you know, in Canada, everyone's kind. I guess I'm really blanging on Canada.
I got a lot of Canadian listeners. I'm sure some of them are going to agree and disagree.
Where in Canada are you from?
I was born in Peterborough, Ontario, but raised in Ottawa, Ontario, which is the capital stay you know, so it's nice, it's well laid out, but again, nobody establishes roots in Ottawa because the government switches every four to five years, so it's like a rootless kind of place. Pretty but rootless.
Oh my gosh.
I couldn't wait to get out of there, so I moved to Toronto and quickly got on national tour of a Broadway play called Biloxi Blues. Travel with that for a year and a half. Ended up in New York a long time ago and stayed there, and I did. I think one of the first things I did was Lawn Order. I think I was playing some doctor, you know.
Yeah, Law and Order regular on your IMDBs, like one of your first major TV things, it seems.
Yeah, wow, that was wild. That was Gary or back Chris and yeah, what's what's the other guy's name was? Chris? Yeah, that was the first episode. I was a corner. I think it was a corner.
Oh okay.
Then I did a Spalding Gray like episode where Spalding Gray jumps off a boat or something. I played one of the lawyers. Again, I think I played too many the lawyers.
Yeah, doctors, lawyers, judges. Well, now you're you're back.
You've been back in very recent episodes of SVU playing this defense attorney, right, yeah.
Yeah, I play yeah, a guy who who handles high end white collar criminals.
Yeah.
We have a lot of money.
Yeah, yeah, how expensive do you think your lawyer is?
Oh, he's at least a thousand.
An hour yeah, and a retainer. I don't know.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You represent this Bill O'Reilly type jackass in one, and then you represent this other like real dislike pedophile who.
Seduced an entire family.
Yes, you're like in the bill O'Reilly episode, which we have yet to cover, but we will. This other episode that we have covered that's based on the kidnapped in plain sight case of the guy who seduced two parents to get to their daughter. Basically, then you did King of the Moon where you defended Bradley Whitford and finally he was a guy who didn't do it, But there was like that attempt the risk cutting.
That was a wild.
Scene yeah, that's fake glass.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, you know.
Rishka directed that episode. She was great, and she's a great actress and she knows how to talk to actors.
Yeah.
It was daunting meeting Bradley because I've been such a fan of his for years, so to watch him up close, he was so relaxed. My god, Well he's been on TV forever, you know. Yeah, it's one episod after another of everything. That was cool. Yeah, that was I think last year about this time.
Yeah, last season.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's a very recent episode, so it stands to reason you could be back, right, they could have you back as this defense attorney.
Or some other you know, aberrant human being.
You know.
Yeah, never say never.
You know. The great thing about the show was they don't give a shit. It's like, as a neo Nazi, I want him as a lawyer next week. Everyone buys it.
We're the only people that like when you show up behind a bench in corner, like.
That's a Nazi, he's in jail.
That guys ain't neo Nazy. I like those characters because you get stopped in the street, Hey liked you, Hey, Hey, good.
Jay, Especially in New York. I'm sure people are stopping you from that one.
New Yorkers are pretty cool actually, as they are in LA. They don't like to like which it's nobody recognizes me anyway, but you know, oh no.
We talked to people that have been bad guys on SVU and people will yell at them on the train and stuff. You shouldn't have done that to that woman. Yeah, ever, or like Kelly Giddish, she's a gambling addict in the show, and she was in a casino and someone ran up to and was like, should you be in here?
You know, it's funny. I never watched the show, so I don't even know what everyone's doing. That served me well because I don't get so nervous watching these big, huge television stars act, you know, because I rarely see them.
So you just kind of since you don't watch it, you just show up and kind of like pretend it's the theater.
Basically, Well, no, I understand what the story is obviously, right, right.
But like you don't get as Yeah, I guess I don't know. As he would only be watching TV all the.
Time, every show, that's right, that's right, it'd be too much a lot of stuff on TV. What are you guys nuts about these days? Oh, this is about law and order.
But oh television wise, well, we're Bravo girls, so the Real Housewives, Summer House that's always in the background of our lives.
Vander Pum.
Yeah.
I also just finished The Bear last night finally. Oh yeah, I love The Bear. I'm late, a little late.
Talk about a lovely set to be on. Oh my god. And the guy is incredible and he's hot, and he's young, and he's short, and he's.
Yeah short, and he's ripped and he's he's an SVU alum.
So that's all we need to know. Yes, who is it? At this point?
You know?
Have you? No?
I have auditioned. I actually auditioned recently for an anti immigrant protester number one, but I did not get it. I did not get let's you are?
That would be so crazy? You you are an immigrant? Like you know, like an anti immigrant protester.
I'm an actress.
Where are you from?
I'm from the former Soviet Union so present day Ukraine.
Yeah.
Yeah. I came as a child, like with all the restaurant born, not raised. No, no, no, I came as a child in nineteen ninety like all the Russian Jews, you know, the influx in the late eighties nineties, so that was part of us.
Wow, you have no accent.
Now that does my sister, who is a teenager. That always shocks me because I was so little. But well, I saw your credit. You did do an episode of Baywatch, and that is how I learned how to speak English. Was watching Baywatch.
That's where I learned how to speak English.
Yeah, that must have been cool to book.
I gotta tell you that Baywatch story. I'm a creep, right, I'm almost plank and I'm like beating my wife or girlfriend and David Hasselhoff steps and he goes, no, no, and then the girl, one of the attractive girls, says, I'm going to handle it. And they approached me and I had the guy. The costume designer was like, we're going to have you in a speedo and I went, no, no, no, don't put me in. You don't want to know what's going on down there. I don't want to show everybody
what's going on down there. You said you got to wear a speedo. I said, I'm not wearing a speedo. So we went up to the executive producer and he goes he's not wearing a speed I said, I just I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. So we sort of did retrofitted some very long towel to go over my private parts. Well, I well, I got beaten by David Hasselhoff's underling.
Whoa, you have a great memory.
The great thing about the everyone watches, particularly Marshka's show. I think it's by far the best. I haven't seen the New Iteration. You know that Chris stars in.
Oh yeah, Organized Crime.
Yeah, but they've got Cameron. I play Cameron's boyfriend in an arc on The Practice, and she's a lovely actress.
Oh. The Practice meant a lot to both of us as young people.
Cameron's in the New Law and Order reboot, Yeah, reboot, and then yeah, Christopher Maloney's in the Organized Crime. Yeah, it's there's a lot. There's a lot of Dick Wolf happening. I think it's you could be back on any of those at any moment.
Yeah, I just did an FBI.
Oh yeah that's him too, Yeah, that's Dick.
Well, he pretty much I think owns like two full nights on NBC, like because there's all the Chicago Meds and there's all the lot of orders and then there's FBI billions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Does he watch this, maybe I can say something, Oh.
We'd love to get him. I don't know. Oh okay, Like we've gotten some pr packages from them, so we know that they like they do know.
We access, They're aware.
Aware, and we have one mole on the inside.
Yeah.
We haven't even tried to really get like the Marishka or Ice or Chris yet. We've had some of the like Diane Neil and Stephanie marsh and a lot of the people that have BD Wong people.
Who have left the show. But we're waiting.
I didn't leave it to go like that with a steady paycheck and you know, all that all that attention, you can parlay that into movie roles, you know.
I mean, well, what we've heard is like with Christopher Maloney leaving after season twelve, was it was like contract negotiations just broke down.
Did he eventually?
Eventually in season twenty four he came back to then do the spinoff of OC. But their characters have reunited and there's still a lot of crossovers and there's a lot of fans that are you know, they're a big will they won't they? For a lot of people, we don't really care about that, but a lot of other the fans do care about that.
We think she deserves better. Yeah, a man who will choose her first, you.
Know, Oh god, yeah I choose?
Can I ask this?
Like you've were talking before about like, you know, movies and TV are obviously different, and you've been like a series regular, you've been a recurring guest star, you've just done one offs, You've also done a ton of movies.
Like what's your favorite thing?
Like when you get booked for something or you like, yes, I want to go to New Mexico and work on a movie for three months, or I'd rather just be in and out in New York for a week and then go home, Like what's your what's your vibe?
Movies? Definitely on location are my favorite. I love acting throughout the middle of the night. I think it's fucking weird and crazy and narcotic. And you enter this so listen to state where nothing you know, I'm riddled with nerves. I get none of that when I'm on set. You know, on location movies allow or the some of the thankfully directors I work with they just allow for there's so
much in the way of, you know, collaboration. It's like they're interested in what you have to say, how you are, what's going on, where you've come from, you know, and again they kind of leave you alone, you know. But yeah, television is different. You know, you got a lot of people wanting to be television directors, and so they followed the director around and they're often giving notes. So you're getting notes from a lot of people on there. All
they're not always necessarily on the same page. So listen, it's all right. It's a great profession. There's nothing wrong with it. But you know, I'm telling you all the slightly frustrating things that happen.
Right.
Television has paid my bills. Everyone thinks I'm rich because I've done a number of films, but because of the payment structure and films for character actors has changed radically. You know, you used to character actors used to make four or five hundred thousand dollars easy because they'd have a quote that the new production would have to meet the quote. The quote would go up and it was just like a regular TV. They still do that with TV Screen Actors Guild and after. But for films, no
way you get for me anyways, it's scale ten. Take her to leave it, and they're nine guys behind me. They're going to take it. I take everything. I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit if it's bad. I do it all because you know you want to you want to continue its physics, just keep moving.
Yeah, forward momentum. Do you audition anymore or absolutely not? Offer only?
I mean that's changed, thank god. So I audition less and less now for movies. All auditioned because some people don't know me. But but yeah, I get a lot of offers from my from my real and that's so fantastic.
It now is Scorsese just calling you or what?
Yeah, well he's in the next round.
Yeah.
We allow him to sleep till noon and then we get up and cuddle. Oh right.
It was so crazy, Like right as I was watching Killers of the Flower Moon, like right as we got the email that we had booked you for the podcast, and then your scene came on and I went, we just booked that guy for the podcast. It was like really wild. It was like within minutes.
His sets, I mean I'll go on and on about his sets. By far the best actors director out there. Just do anything you want as long as you come in with shit, you have some ideas. He's open to it. He shifts the camera as a result during rehearsals because of it. It's not all like, this is what I want you to do. And even if he does say this is what I want you to do, it works out. He knows what he's doing, you know, Yeah, standing the obvious.
But no, I mean, we've never worked with Scorsese, so it's nice to hear.
You.
Were also just in American Fiction, another Oscar nominated movie, and I loved your part in it.
We liked that one one.
It won say what a great guy. I thought a speech cool too.
It's about making make ten twenty million dollar movies instead of one two hundred million dollar movie.
Yeah, which they're saying is not risky, but it's really risky.
It's a lot of money, and not all of us want to go see superheroes exploding each other, you know, every single weekend in the movies.
I can't stand those.
Things, I know, but you'd be good. You'd be a good evil guy.
On one of those oh yeah, well, thank god, I don't think that's going to happen. But you know, they want really people with jaws and you know.
Uh wait, I have a question back to backs ask for you. But you get a mugshot? Was that fun to have a little mugshot photoshoot?
They always do that. I'm always I'm always on tickets or like, you know, see me in a background. I'm neo Nazi. And the prep time for that is like real fast though, like I'll get offered the gig and then within sometimes within twenty four hours, are on set doing the gig. You know, yeah, and thank god here in New York. Well, I'm in LA right now, but I spend both times between LA and New York. There's a lot of shit happening in New York right now,
which is great. A lot of procedural shit that's happening in New York and stuff for guest stars. I don't know how many guest stars you've interviewed. I'm sure you've interviewed a lot. It's kind of tough. It's not like war or anything. I'm not being tortured, but you know, it's kind of tough to get in there. Do your bit get out, especially after they've been doing it for twenty five years. It all comes down from the top, and she is classy as hell, great actress, funny as fuck,
really hysterically funny and inappropriate. Great lead, great lead to him. I'm just a guest star, and you know I've done four or five of these things.
I don't think it's over for you. I think we're going to have. You said, there's plenty of creeps that need defending.
Well, I was gonna also ask you the last courtroom scene you were with raoul A Sparza, did you guys have fun?
Great guy, so you never know, you know, some people I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have so much fun with him, and then it turns out to be a nightmare. And conversely, you get these people that are like that guy seems like a dick. He gets on set and he's, you know, so kind and warm, and he's playing a character.
So yeah, my mom like, if you're evil, she won't like, she can't fuck with you anymore. If you play like an evil character, she can't see past it.
My mother's like she had judges my work on what I'm wearing. Yeah, I liked you and that because I was a lawyer playing a guy with a guy. I didn't like you in that at all.
Because I had a Nazi armband on.
Because I'm doing this now, don't isolate that and go we found an the guy on he's playing neo Nazi es.
He was type caazz.
My wife is now in the background going, well, wait.
We wanted to talk about your wife too.
We can't believe what you're in a power couple, like your wife is this big screenwriter who wrote all these movies that we love.
The Secretary is one of my favorite movies. Yeah, I used to rent it all the time. I love it so much. I watch it at least once a year. You do, I do it sick, but I love it.
The young girls love it. Yeah, you know when they find out Aaron's written Secretary, it's a it's a big deal. That's a great movie for her to start with. Secretary. It's like I thought, it was so well done too, and the performances are amazing. James Spader, you know, I just did a Blacklist with James Spader. At the second to last episode. He's one guy that I thought, oh, he's gonna fucking hate me. This guy. But I get on set. He is so kind, so nice, he's so smart,
and he's so good. I don't even know if he's doing dialogue in the scene or if he's talking to me. That's how good he is. Wow, he was just he had literally a three page monologue nailed at every time, and I had to have, you know, like I have bits of paper with all my dialogue everywhere, as long as it's not a master shot and they can't see it, you know. But not him. He's another pro.
Wait, so you and your white you were on the show Vinyl.
You were like you were on the show Vinyl for ten episodes and she wrote on that have you guys worked together a lot before?
Did you meet like through the business?
We've been together like twenty three years, and she was writing secretary back when we met, and she goes, I think you should come in and be one of these guys, the businessman who likes to get beat up on massacres. And I went, no, I'm good. I'm not judgmental about anything. I'll play anything. But I didn't want to play stuff because she had given it to me. Now I do it because I'm not an idiot. Back then, it was, you know, mister, you know, I'm like, I don't want
to get into this nepotism shit. You know, I make it sound like I'm I'm an angel. I'm not. But but I said, I'm not going to do it. And then that was it. All the offers went, you know, from from her and her various productions went. So I learned my lesson. Yeah, now it's ridiculous. It's like, you can do it. I can do it. If they want you. It's not a big part. Go ahead, do it. Yeah, she's done really well. She's wrote Girl in a Train.
Yeah, I saw that.
I saw it in the theater because I read that book and I loved it and I loved the movie. And then you guys have a son. Is he in the Is he interested in either writing or acting?
Or what?
Was he going to be? An EPO?
He's a model for IMG. His name is Liam McKenzie. Look him up. He's I don't know, worry he didn't get looks from me. He got he's a very handsome young man.
Oh wow, yeah he's hot. He's got a hot look. Oh oh he's doing runway.
Yeah yeah, he did a bunch of runway. We went to Milan with him and a couple of summers ago, and we are in Paris with him.
He has like a Timothy Challomey look in some of these outfits.
Does he does have a tity schallome load. I don't think he's into acting though. I think he's a I think he'll be more like his mom. I think you're right, he's really smart. He's going to Wesleyan right now.
Oh wow, okay, I went to Trinity, like right down the road from Wesleyan.
Oh cool girl.
What did you make theater and English creative writing? You're an actor yeah, and a writer, but we both do stand up work for comics.
Yeah, okay.
Who do you like in the stand up world?
I can't wait to see Ali Wong's new hour. David Tell's my favorite. He has a new one coming out, so I'm really pumped about that.
I love Maria Bamford. She's like one of my favorites.
Oh fucking crazy good.
She's my one of my absolute favorites.
When I was a Vinyl Ray Ramano was my partner with Bobby Connavali and we got closed.
Oh did you go to the cellar all the time with the comedy Seller. Did you ever come to the Comedy Seller all the time. Yeah, because Ray Ramano brought Bobby Knavalli and stuff, and Raise known as being very kind. He's beloved there and everywhere probably, but.
So fucking nice man, such a great guy. We finish his set, he goes, let's go, and I said, where are we going? He goes, I'm going to go around the corner? And I went, what's going on around the corner? He goes, another comedy set I can get in. We just did that all night. I was like fascinated by it. I see the exact same act, And that's how good
these guys are. Raise a very good actor, underrated actor, and he has this ability to make shit up like it's happening right at that moment, like all great comedians. I guess. But what a lesson. And all these guys, and you guys know this. They're at the back, they're you know, a great set. You know, they're cool, they're you know, they all know one another, and they're all kind of weirdly famous. You know. I'm shocked at how funny they were.
Yeah, that's Lisa's life you're describing. She's like at the Comedy Seller she's bopping around doing like five sets a night.
Yeah, because I moved to LA for a few years and I just got back to New York like a month and a half ago, not even and it's just been so fun. I went to Joe's Pub last night to watch a show and it was like, this is a Monday night and everyone was so talented, And.
I mean, I prefer New York to LA. Yeah, for many of the reasons you mentioned.
Do you have something coming out soon that you would like to tell our listeners about.
Well, I'm in as you mentioned, I'm in American Fiction. By the way, I didn't even know it was that. I a friend of mine saw it a tiff. It got Best Audience Award and I said what is that and he said, American Fiction. You're in it? Ah. I said, oh my god. I did that in Boston like a year and a half ago. I completely forgot.
It's really a great movie. It's fun.
Yeah, your part is so funny when you're like offering him that role on the committee.
That guy's got a big career. He's a great director, he's really a good writer, he's a journalist, he's smart. He's really cool. Oh cool, he's like, they're very very you know, the young ones are not you know, the new ones are not that cool. But he's got a big career. And Jeffrey Wright.
Is great, so talented.
Yeah, I'm scared of him, but he's great. Oh and you know killers are the flower Moon, which is very long, but it's also great. I'm just so appreciative. He's given me six gigs, including a TV series, and yeah, you know, I I tell these young actors the most important thing to do is you if you have a if you have a good time at the director, always write them. They never get letters, nobody, especially the big ones. People don't think they need them and they don't want them
and they don't read them. But it's been the most effective thing. I mean, you've got to be honest. She can't bullshit. You've got to be specific what you liked and didn't and why. But I always do that with him because he's you know, he's touched. He's touched, and I'm sad. I hope he does a lot more films. He's eighty one though, so.
Yeah, Well, if you could be the president in your eighties, you can make a few more movies. You can make a movie.
Yeah, I wouldn't hire a Walmart super.
I like you. I interapt with my dad, who's eighty six, and I'm like, you shouldn't be out of the house, Like, I.
Don't know, Dad, you staying out?
This is amazing. This has been so much fun. I feel like we should let you go.
Uh So my mother said, I'm going to let you go now. They want to get rid of you. I want to stop talking to you.
Oh we don't. We have to record more other stuff.
You guys are great.
We had so much fun. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much. You're the best. Thank you so much for talking to us.
I was scared shitless talking to you, but you're totally cool.
We were very scared and nervous too. All right, well, this is a dream. Hell your wife were big fans. We're big fans of you. And thank you so much for coming on the pod.
I'm a big fan of youse. Okay, guys, nice speaking with you. You're the best.
All right, JC, thank you so much. Nice to meet you. Bye. I mean, was that a get or was that again? I mean?
And what a power couple him and his wife writing secretary and all these you know, I.
Love meeting a power couple.
So we meet a lot of people that are like married to other actors or other people that are very successful.
It's some nice to see people can do it. But I also liked that he was just like, oh yeah, women at your age come up to us about Secretary, like they like flock to Secretary. And I felt that way. When I saw someone one of the actors from Legally Blonde, I was like, you know, you're in one of my favorite movies. He goes, were you at a really important age in that time period? I go, yes, freshman year
of thank you. But yeah, he was so cool and fun and I love talking to him so much, and I love being able to meet Brian Ackerman.
Yeah, and never thought, never thought we'd have Brian Ackerman, the Nazi on our podcast, and we did. I knew, I knew, well it was lad that guy and who knew that that that guy was hot. I would say, that's the hottest purp they've ever had.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Oh. Also, the GM at the Seller stopped me last night and let me know that she's she's never seen us to be not one episode on your whole her whole life. She just started. She's watching three four rapes a day, is what she said. And she's on season five right now. Wow. Yeah, she's plugging along. But our knowledge is so encyclopedic at this point that it is fun. Like it's so fresh for
her because she's watching it. So we're really meshing in terms of being able to communicate, where I'm like, oh, and you saw that one that one hauntson you met this person, yet I'm like doing yeah, grainer lines to her.
I I sort of wish I could trade places with somebody who's never watched it. It sounds like such a fun journey to start on.
But I guess I could do that. I could watch Criminal Minds or something. She said she like the grittiness of it and she's never seen OZ. So I said, well, after this, you should watch OZ if you want grit, if you want grip. Yeah, but I don't know. I you watched it in order, so you had that experience. I've always been a random watcher. Well, I watching watch.
I watched it not necessarily in order the first few seasons because I was like in college, I wasn't really watching like appointment television and we didn't have TiVo.
You know, like yet cold on your friend who's like she mentored the Yukon player, right, yeah, were they in that was? Was she playing in that game? Oh? Yeah, friend was all the games?
Wow?
And I I forgot remember how I was bragging about how I got Fox News off my cable package and I couldn't wait to fucking like my parents to come over and turn on Fox News and it's not availed Bell on my cable. I also got rid of ESPN, and the only time I wanted to watch anything was that Iowa Yukon game and I like, I go on and it's like, you don't have this channel, and I'm.
Like, ah fuck. I thought I never thought i'd need sports, but I did.
But yeah, like so my friend has been at all those games and like she plays a lot. It's cool. Her name's really everybody if you follow basketball. I am personal friends with Ice Brady from the Yukon women's basketball team, and I've known her since she was twelve.
No, it's really cool. What's that I've been crying a lot at all of that footage on my Explore page. A lot of tears for sure. Yeah, it's been.
Really cool to see the rise of women's sports. Uh yeah, which is a perfect conversation to have during this post mortem because I don't really want to talk about like, I don't think we can really learn any lessons from this episode. Besides, if you're a cop, don't motorcycle chase your perpetrator down. It's probably gonna get everything thrown out. But besides that, I think there's not that much real world application.
Also, if you're listening from prison, it can always get worse. I know he had a life sentence, but now you're in solitary malitary. Yeah, you can't, you know, work on your Nazi website from prison, like you gotta behave don't do that. Oh there's also hopefully this doesn't give you too much away when you get into succession. But one guy, you know, obviously they're committing crimes, they're evil people, But one guy, he's just he knows he's gonna go to
jail for a white car, Like he just knows. So look at all these episodes I'm in right now, are him just like prepping and researching about jail and how to make wine because he's gonna miss wine and the toilet and he's just like toilet dreading it, but they're so rich, it's like tough. So he's training for prison by going to diners and eating diner food and having temperature room temperature water and stuff.
And it's been fun to it's been funny to watch. That's really funny. That's such a funny idea.
Wow, because he knows he's researching the prisons. And then his wife's like, shut the fuck up, but he is.
Gonna go to prison. I don't know, it's Oh, you know who's in it. The guy from Zola, the bumbling boyfriend from the movie Zola.
That's cousin Greg.
Oh, I know him. Yes, I know who cousin Greg is. And also someone told.
Me that he is fucking all over New York City that during six he is he's a New York boy, and I guess he's out here fucking. I bet, I bet he's that cousin Greg.
That was another thing, like one of the first or second episodes, when he barfed through the mascot mask, I was like, oh my god, like I could not handle that. I think I watched three or four episodes. No, I didn't see it. I didn't see Tigger barf through his mask at all.
But yeah. I like the guy who plays Tom Yeah. Yeah.
And he was in this like British sort of mini series that I watched about people that tried to.
Cheat on who wants to be a millionaire? Okay, cool, it's good. Is he British? Is he speaking British? Yeah, he's fucking British.
Yeah.
And the girl, the girl shives, she's Australia.
I mean these she is. Yeah. I didn't know where she really came from. I wonder IMDb. It was like it was like not a lot. This was her big moment. This was right right, this was her big thing. I bet she just nailed the audition. And that Culkin, I mean he's killing it. Did you see the mcaulay Culkin went viral when he did his star No No so him and his wife Brenda song she's famous. But they went to Nobu Los Cabos or something like that. There's
like a Mexico Nobou hotel. But you can buy the shirt at the merch shot like in the gift shop. You can buy the shirt that all the staff wear. So he just pretended to work there all week, and so it's all the photos of him like carrying luggage and serving his wife like working the place, and I'm like, this is nice. I like it.
We're seeing Kevin McAllister who was old Tricks, you know, Yeah, I love that. Oh.
I also wanted to say something. I was talking to a guy and it's so fun because like guys like never know they're being assaulted or abused. They'll talk about stuff where you're like, you were raped by your babysitter. And I had one of those discussions where someone's like, yeah, my girlfriend like punched me, but I don't know. I'm like, once is enough, you leave? He goes, But is it the same for guys? I go, yes, you don't have
to be hit. And it's like, because I had an experience where a guy goes, yeah, this grown man when I was a teen eight marshmallow peeps off my chest.
I go, yeah, that's a crime. Yeah, I go, oh, that's that's not allowed. But like it's so interesting that their brain. And I was telling him. I go and I was at the TA. I was talking to him. I go, yeah, men don't realize it.
You'll talk to him guy and he'll say, oh, yeah, I lost my virginity at eleven to my twenty five year old and he's like, that happened to me. My first kiss was eight to an eighteen year old. I go, that's assault, and he goes it felt fine. I go, no, no, no, that's a cry like no. But it's so it's like I it is I don't know the right adjective, but talking to men about things that they're not realizing as bad as a thing. I don't know. You can go
into the Sister Peg. All right, let's get into Sister Peg. This is our weekly segment. This is what would Sister Peg do?
Our weekly segment where we you know, direct you guys towards an organization, a book, a blog post, a documentary, something to give you more information about what we talked about today. And this week we wanted to highlight the Southern Poverty Law Center. They specialize in civil rights and public interest litigation and they monitor and classify extremist hate groups throughout the United States and expose their activities to the public, the media, and policymakers. So you know, relevant
to this episode. They monitor the KKK, neo Nazi movement, neo Confederates, government, anti government militias, anti Semitic groups, anti LGBTQ groups, and others, and they also work with educators across the country to promote tolerance educational programs and you can learn I think they do great work. You can learn a lot about them and their initiatives and they have tons of resources and ways to donate at www dot splcenter dot org. So that's Southern Poverty Law Splcenter
dot org. And that will be you know, posted in our stories the day this episode comes out, and we save those forever in our WWSPD highlights.
Thank you so much for that. And next week we will be doing twenty five acts and that's from season fourteen, episode three. See you soon, everybody you know, give us some stars or whatever. See you soon bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
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As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and our our associate producer, Christina.
Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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