Patrimonial Burden w/ Geneva Carr

Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done.

Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up n SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. Hello.

Every week we talk about an episode of SVU, the true crime it's based on, and then we have a guest from the episode that we should chat with. And now Kara and I are going to catch up because we've been in separate parts of the country for weeks weeks.

This is our longest break. Now that's not.

Yeah, well when you were yeah, yeah, that's not true.

We really have just recorded, but.

It feels like a long it feels like a long hours breakn't really been anywhere so in a long time.

So this has been great. Yeah, and hello, what oh, I was just going to say.

We are going to be at moon Tower. Yeah, in Austin, Texas. We're so excited. Moontower Comedy Festival in Austin, Texas, which you've done it before, right, I've been to it before. It's such an amazing festival. So if you are in Texas or the Austin, Texas area specifically, come see us. We're going to do a live show. We're going to be doing stand up also as ourselves and I We're excited.

Very excited. Yeah, Austin is great. I can't wait to eat. Well, mostly it is sick. Austin has so much to offer. But in my head, all I know is I know there's a Jimmy John's there. Oh my god, because I always see stay near the Jimmy John. So it's like, it's so sick of all the barbecue. There's great Japanese restaurants there. There's so much, and I'm the Case so I can't wait. I love Case. So I'm so glad Chipotle finally got on the QSO game. That was like a very weird move. How long it took them?

Same with us.

You know all places cheese fries brings people together. What are people waiting for?

Yeah? Add more cheese everyone. If you're a well known.

Well I was in Raleigh. It took me eighty years to remember how to say it rally. Yes, we did get a couple of notes.

Yeah, I just I could. I could even there.

It really took me weeks after I left even figured it out, or a week. But there were so many cute people at the show. Because of COVID and all that, I couldn't get to talk to anybody, but there were like two cutis to the left of me, and hello. I did tell them that they that he won most Cute audience Member, So.

Hey, what's up?

You know we're talking to I also found out my nephew's girlfriend listens, so, oh, what's up, girl. I hope you're enjoying college. I know on a former episode, I said you guys should break up and get over this long distance stuff.

But I take it back. You know, I think you guys really are going to go the distance. That was the first thing I thought of it.

I was like, oh, the girlfriend that you said probably okay, No, I think it's great.

Yeah, own your mistakes. They could make it. But I didn't even know. I just meant it in the terms of like my own like being young and all of that.

Yeah, obviously wasn't a judgment on herself. But he said yesterday, he's like, she loves you.

I go, I don't know her. I'd never met her, you know. Of course I stalk the Instagram. But he was like, she listens to the podcast and.

I went, uh, oh this might be a problem.

Yeah, it's great. I'm glad.

She also, what do you think about this? So you know, my nephew is eighteen, he's going to college. He says, I've muted all of them from my stories. He says, now that he's in college, I should.

Unmute him from my stories. Yeah you think you agree? Yeah? Okay, why not? Okay, yeah he knows I smoke weed. Yeah wait, because that's what I'm saying.

You're not like on there shooting up Heroin and like you're you know, you're just kind of like living your life. I think you're It's a great example of a cool aunt and you should.

Just do it. Okay, I'll do it. I'll do it.

Yeah, I'll do whatever you say. And for those paying attention, I would like to say, my air conditioner is still broken.

That is over a month of that. So they hate me, and I'm coming to you.

I'm coming to you live from a closet, so you know we are getting it done for you.

They hate me because I call them too much, because they don't call me back enough, and so I called yesterday and they wouldn't answer, and then I called from the hotel phone and they answered, and I went, oh, that's interesting, Wendy. I just called you twice, so it's weird that you're picking up now, isn't it.

I told Wendy, I hope you listen to the podcast.

I've been honest with you. I go, do you am I too annoying? Am I calling too much? Then maybe send me more update. I'm like, what you are doing is immoral. Even though I'm out of town, I'm still pretending I'm in there, like I don't know, yeah, but still fighting.

Is anyone else in the building having a problem where it's like your specific unit is fucked?

I think it's just my specific unity.

Yeah, that's so frustrated AdFest. Even though you are in a closet right now. Your closet, your brother's closet is bigger than my whole apartment.

I would say it's quite large. It's a very like, Yeah, have you guys been in the pool every day? Yeah?

My brother has a nice ass pool. And this is like our new airbnb. We're just like coming here and it's like an airbnb where people will hold my children for me, so I love it, which is.

Very Oh my god, oh yeah, I was so mad. On my flight there was like ten to fifteen families with kids. I'm like, this is too many kids. I know you tweeted about it.

It was so funny that, but when you tweeted me that an eight year old, I'm sorry, your eight year old does not eat extra help getting seated on the plane unless there's look, don't come for me if there's some kind of special needs issue. But what you made it seem to me was that it was a regular, fully neurotypical eight year old that just needed to, like, was just getting on early. I don't think that's what they mean when they say people with young children.

No, but they can't ask like you can, even if they say if you need time, like I can go up there. If I had, like, if my ethics leaned that way, I could totally do.

Yeah.

You could be like I have restless leg I need to get on first, yeah, or something like that.

But my mom always told me don't lie about health. Oh not good. You don't want to lie about health. You can lie about an invented person's health, but yeah, don't show anything on your bod. You know you don't want any of that goofiness inside of yourself. You know, I'm very into the evil eye. And our friend I kept telling her, I'm like, you need you need the eye. I could tell people are going to be jealous of you. And she got a stut. She got a little eye

Ooh, you're confused. No, I want to know who it is. We have two friends, let's be honest. Okay, right, well gee I thought there were more, but I guess now at least it's now telling me I have two friends.

I'm saying who I could be tough. No, we have a lot of friends. We have a lot of friends.

I got picked up in a red convertible vintage BMW this weekend.

By mean, I mean, come on, I deserved it. You deserve that kind of My friend had that in high school and she would pick me up once in a while, Like it wasn't her car all the time, it was her dad's car. That once in a while he would let her drive and she would pick me up, and I'd be like I'm.

In a movie like this is amazing.

Yeah, I've only been in two convertibles, but even as an adult, you know it hasn't A convertible is cool.

No matter what, it's always exciting.

I used to borrow my friends like Toyota Solara a convertible and still thought I was the bomb dot com. And that's like I think, literally the stupid car that Michael Scott gets in the office to like show off to everybody know what it is.

So I was watching The Office on the plane. It's a nice plane view.

So many people watch Fox News that I couldn't believe it. Everywhere I looked there was a Fox News on the screen.

Really.

I know they're number one obviously in ratings, but I was really shocked, like people that had books with that, like people, young people, this hip guy next to me with a cool Tasmanian Devil shirt on, like I don't know, everyone had Fox News on.

I don't know what the then diagram of Tasmanian Devil fans and Republicans are, but I guess it's more of a circle than we thought. Oh wow, yeah that is surprising. That is surprising.

I'm like, well, I guess because where were you going from? Where to wear? I don't even know anymore.

Oh, I lay the Salt Lake to Chicago. Okay, well maybe the Salt Lake connection the leg.

Yeah, that's actually I believe the exact flight that I took my baby on to go to our friend's bachelorette party. I took a two leg flight to take a five month bulcho about party. In case you're wondering who I am as a person, No, Delta is very close to losing me as a customer. I mean, I lost my status. So now I'm anybody's game. I could literally move to anybody.

I could. I could become a Mint person. I'm enemies with Uber too.

I scheduled a car over a day in advance, running twenty minutes late.

Excuse me, why would I order you early?

Yeah, these are stupid problems. I really apologize with what's happening. I feel like we're just we're at the playground and we're two moms that kind of know each other. That's what we're talking about. Really was Okay, listen what I notice it ended? That's Oh my god. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it, loved it. Anyone that says it's it's not for them or disappointing.

Or not good. I'm like, maybe you're dumb. It was perfect.

I know.

My my sister's fiance said, he's like, I just don't like the show, and I'm like, but.

I need I love you. Don't do that. Don't say that to me.

And if he doesn't like it, as long as you understand the value you and how good it actually is, you know.

No, but I don't think he does. He goes, I don't get why you guys like the show? Well, is he a problem? Would he be one of the white lotus to hotel people?

Would he be? He is Steve's on? I mean Steve's on.

I thought we were supposed to kind of like him. And then when he did that second to last episode when he had that little monologue about how hard it is to be a white person and how we can't really do reparations or whatever, I was like, and, yeah, you're supposed to hate every single person in the show except for like Natasha Rothweld.

Yeah.

But then someone I was reading interviews and obviously all the articles, and someone's like, yeah, but why would you want to go into business with that lunatic. You know, I know that also seems like a tough situation of sorts.

I don't know. She's so good, Jennifer Coolidge. I love her so much. Oh.

I also wanted to say fuck you to anyone that message just going, oh, just add another face to your face unlocking on your phone.

It'll work. That's a lot.

I tried to do it with a mask on and my sunglasses, and my phone kept saying face substruction, the face is obstructed, and refuse to take a photo.

So fuck you Apple, fuck you everyone.

What a dumb invention. I can't wear sunglasses and open my phone.

But I feel like it worked for me the other day after you told me that when I was wearing my sunglasses.

Okay, well the mask, I get the mask.

It's not gonna work, that's fine, that's fine, But what about sungle I just think this is a dumb invention.

Yeah no, And a lot of people actually wrote a message of saying fucking right on, Lisa, there are with you on fuck it face ID. You can also just turn it off and go back to your old ways.

But what's the old way? A code entering in your password, that's not the old way. My old way was a thumb. I touched the thumb. Oh I never.

Used the thumb. Oh I did use the thumb. You're right, Damn, I don't want to type in a long ass code.

I used to have a phone that you could lied and not yeah, and that was like kind of good. But I was just everyone got my hopes up. But maybe I'll try. I'll keep forgot about the fucking fingerprint. You're right, that was the old way. I felt really old. Mym I had so many problems. I was like taking photos of my nephew, like I just didn't know how technology worked. And then the children fixed it in ten seconds and it wasn't actually a problem, you know, truly graduated.

I've been making shakes in my hotel room.

Damn yes, Blenjet sponsor US. We're here out here doing it for free.

Sponsor US.

But it's like, yeah, our one friend posted about it, and now I know like ten people who have bought it, and now we're on this Blenjet journey together.

All right.

Well, a chocolate peanut butter shake with a banana, what's better?

That's amazing for the girl on the go. Yeah, this is all right.

I feel this has been the most uneventful intro of all time, and I need to apologize to all the listeners.

You know what, Lisa, We're not going to be able to come to these people every week and be like, here's the magical shit that's been going on. Sometimes we have just a solo ass week where I've just been soaking in a pool and I'm sitting in a closet and you had to take some flights with too many kids.

That's what happened this week.

I know.

Oh God, but I have my I have a jeep to use this one, and you know what, next week I'm doing like family Skokie week one week, and then next week's Chicago Friends Week, and then you guys will have some stories.

Yeah.

I can't wait for the hot goss coming out of the Chicago street.

Yeah, I'm gonna go.

To the Soho house pool. Ooh, I'm go go to the beach. I'm gonna get a Jimmy Johnson witch. I have great plans for next week. Wow, I can't wait.

All right, Well, let's get started, because this is a good app. We got a lot of info, an amazing guest, and I'm excited.

I love the guest this week so much. Wait, JK, I have nothing.

But I didn't even wait long enough for the joke to even to fucking go through.

Oh you know what's embarrassing. I'm looking at my sleep mask from the plane. It's the only one I could buy, and it says dreaming of first class on it.

Like, how embarrassing? Oh that's embarrassing. I'm sleeping in the main cabin and it says dreaming first class on my thing on my sleep mask. They gave that to you. No, I had time to like stop at CBS.

Before the flight, I'm like sleep mass, sleep mask and this is the only one they had classiest classes a classes bullshit sleep match.

Okay, now for real, on the second try, we're starting.

All right, season seventeen Patrimonial Burden, and I'm not telling you the episode number. Hulu plays some games here again and I refuse, I refuse to be thrown him to these false numbers. So seventeen patrom O'Neil Burnen and it

Normal, but really quick, can I ask you?

Because when I was growing up, not even necessarily in a religious way, but there were daddy daughter dances. And I have a feeling you're gonna tell me that no, you and your dad did not ever go to a daddy daughter dance.

We know, but I'm gonna bet whatever possessions I have that those people are religious nuts. You're not a secular person in this country going to daddy daughter dances.

Well, in my well equally disturbing in my town. Not equally, but also disturbing in my town. It was called Indian Incesses. Was like some kind of and definitely culturally appropriate of like I don't even it was definitely not about India the country. It was about Native Americans and they had a daddy daughter dance and I wasn't.

Part of that group. And it may have been religious and I don't remember.

You're probably right, it definitely was, but like I just remember being like, why would that be fun?

And they'd all be like, yeah, this weekend's the daddy daughter.

Dance, and I'd be like, wait why, and I'm sure we have like listeners that are gonna come for us and be like, no.

I did it with my dad and it was actually really sweet.

But like I just there's I cannot decreepify a daddy daughter dance in my mind, Like there's just no way.

I don't understand why.

Those are done and they're so and maybe if it's like a disco theme, yeah, okay, go ahead in the eighties, but are you all wearing white nightgowns and getting rings?

Okay, then it's not okay, right right?

But someone I was just watching someone else about daddy daughter dances. If they don't get their love from their dad, they're gonna get somewhere out or is it this this I don't even remember, but I feel like I had another weird daddy situation happening on Instagram or something.

I was trying to work on a.

Joke about this a couple of years ago, just with like daddy daughter dances I.

Did an Indian princess. It was not crazy.

You did yes, my dad, Well, I was trying to be respectful.

It was lovely.

You did weekend trips with dad and some daughters, and you went to summer camps.

I loved it.

Well, she's back in once there's summer camp. Kara's on board.

Okay. It's like horse nighting and camping and.

Be sure, okay, sure, and that's fine, like quality time with your dad, not for me, but okay, but the dance part.

Maybe your dad.

Can just be doing stuff day to day and you wouldn't have to do excursions.

So yeah, that's something also, but also you good father every day.

You wouldn't have to go, you know, grind with your daughter on the weekend to show how close you are.

Okay, that's what I'm saying.

Like a camping trip, whatever, a hike, that's fun, I guess for you.

But like a dance, I don't understand.

A dance is so like a date scenario, like even I did like ballroom cotillion type thing, and it's like the boy comes up and asks the girl to dance, like it's all it's all very dainty. So I just don't get the dance part of it, Like did you do that with your dad, Hannah?

I think it was more we put on skits and things.

It was through the YMCA, Like this is kiotic and now it's called Why Guides. Just it's no longer called Indian Prince.

I wonder why.

Yeah, yeah, you know what I did with my dad.

We went to the aquarium. That's what we did. I took I took Rosie to the aquarium yesterday. We would go play racquetball. That's what my dad and I did. We would go rollerblading, you know what I mean.

You never felt the need for him to touch you on your hips and sway gently to lady in red.

I know. We just.

Would sneak into the pool he worked at, Like, come on, yeah, you can find shenanigans to do with your da.

That's not slow dancing. Let's move on. Sorry, Okay, I mean there.

I bet there's gonna be a lot of asides because this just keeps getting freakier and freakier as it all goes down. So then you see a logo on the bottom of the screen of this dance and it's you could tell it's like a TV logo, like how it would say NBC News but instead it says Bakers doesn't. So it's a TV show and Baker's doesn't. I think it's like a funny game, you know, like, oh, look, there's thirteen of us. And then I'm assuming we all know exactly what this one is based on. You know,

Kara?

Never?

Okay, I did, And the only thing I remember I remember a few things. But they ate very bad. They didn't eat well. It's not like there's a ton of us and we're on the farm. They would go to ald and buy tons of frozen food and they just would have tater talk castle roles constantly, and it was like an assembly line of all these kids, and each one was in charge of something and they would just eat gray, mushy tater talk cast roles.

Oh god, yes, it was fucked. It was fucked.

It was pretty disgusting and yeah, just made by tiny little child hands. So back from the duggars were onto the Baker's dozen.

Oh god.

And so the.

Girl, the main girl, she has half down, half up hair really long, which is religious hair. You can that's religious hair from a mile away. There's purple and lavender everywhere. And the parents are doing like a cutaway confessional type thing where they're talking about how this is normal and good and there's no holier relationship than between dad and daughter, even though they truly came out of my body.

But okay, so nothing holier.

You know, it did come out of my vagina, but holy this.

Baby did grow inside of me. But okay.

So the parents' names we learn are Frank and Pam. Great, I don't care, no, I care.

This is good.

The Virtue Ball is in New York City and they can't wait to go, so they're traveling to New York for this.

This is like also such a stretch for the show.

Yeah, these balls would just take place in your shitty like small rural town or whatever in Arkansas, like you would not be like we have, like these kind of people think New York is like a den of iniquity. The fact that in this episode they go to New York, like multiple times is very like, how can we make SVU cover this?

Yeah, there's one moment we will get to where it's like this is why they go there, and it's pretty funny and we'll get to it.

So they're in New York. Lene is thirteen.

She's wearing classic religious outfit, long sleeves, long skirt, and she's holding a stuffed pig.

So she's a kid.

She shouldn't even be thinking about who she's gonna be fucking like.

That's my thing.

It's like you're ap preaching all this chastity and all these things, but that's not even on your kid's mind, Like you are implanting it, I know.

But I think they're like, let's get that going now.

You know.

They're like, get it going before they even think of it, so that when the dick presents itself, they know just swat it away.

It's just fresh in my mind because I'm on Instagram all day. But there's a lot of things where people are like homosexuality, like leave it out of the kids, And it's like, honestly, is it just like sexuality. It seems like to these hetero religious people is thrown on their children from such a young age. Like you guys are actually the creeps, Like why are you doing this? You know, and they think they're like morally superior or something,

On kids who would have just been chilling.

Yeah, you know when people are like, look it's your girlfriend and boyfriend. Look how cute, and it's like you're that's the thing, Like dancing shit could be a secular, like non sexual fun thing, but it's not because they force it, you know, like you should be able to dance with an uncle without being creeped out, but that is not the case. So we see them getting off the bus in New York. There's tons of luggage, so much luggage, and the girls are all talking about how

It's twisted.

Oh did you ever see the I don't really watch Say Yes to the Dress, but I hate the one where the dad has to approve the dress.

Yeah, that doesn't bother me as much.

They're like min desong as my daddy likes it, he's paying for it.

I'm like yes.

Because those episodes also include annoying mothers, weird sisters that are jealous, a gay best friend who thinks he knows everything. Like there's so much judgment on that show. It's not so glaring. Yeah, where it's like, Okay, this bitch has a dad, that girl has a you know, an ugly sister, so let's have it.

It's not so.

Much just like dads and if your dad and it's whoever's paying, usually that's who I guess who.

Yeah, there's just something gross about the girls coming.

Out being like, what do you think, daddy, and like, I don't know. The dad's like too much boob, Like I don't like.

This is also telling that we have a weird relationships with our fathers. Some people listening to this are like, I would totally no, it's weird. Don't take a bad wedding dress shopping.

It's so fucked up. I would go alone.

I wouldn't want anyone's fucking opinions unless you know my mom had a dying wish. Oh, okay, So the kid gets a tiara, which I like. So then we meet more of the kids. Summer is fifteen. There's Rick, there's Timber and they're married to each other and they've only kissed each other. And then there's Graham who's seventeen. And this is actually a YouTube category.

I don't know if you know.

About this, but people that save their first kisses to marriage, you can watch them kiss It's like a category. So you watch people who have never kissed in their lives kissing in front of everyone in the church for the first time, and they're terrible kissers. It looks horrific. They look like fish like being pounded against each other like it's really sickening. And so, because then it's adults. When kids don't know what they're doing. It's like you're in junior high.

Or learning to kiss, right, these are grown people marrying each other, kissing for the first time in front of their families.

So, oh my god, this is horrific. It's a risic. I can't the douche chills.

Okay, wait, I was gonna ask a question, and now, oh, Timber, what.

Do you think of the name?

I feel like that's right out of the Sarah Palin name handbook. I feel like she should have had a Timber.

I know, but I love the song Timber by Kesha.

Oh.

I know you do because you cleared a dance floor with it one yeah.

Yeah, So I like Timber kim and it reminds me of a bo Jack Horseman character named Kimber, So I kind of like it.

I'm on your list for baby names, got it? Timber?

So the dad is spinning his daughter and she's not feeling good, and she's like stop stop, and he doesn't listen to her.

I wonder why.

I wonder why this man doesn't listen to his daughter who's asking him to please stop, you know what I mean. Yeah, just pretty telling, and then she passes out. She wobbles, passes out, amazing acting for a young child, like truly just passes the fuck out. So Chris Elliot suddenly on camera and he runs in and for those who don't know, he's in a scary movie too, and he has a little and he mixes the mashed.

Potatoes with it.

So but most recently, Shit's Creek. He's the mayor of the town and.

That's very popular show. Oh yeah, all my references are twenty five to thirty years so sorry.

But he is not dressed in Purity Ball outfits, so you're like, who is this guy. He's dressed in secular clothing and he obviously knows this family.

He's like, call the cops, give her air.

He's actually trying to help out and we will learn more about him later. So, Benson, Finn, and Caries you are doing some walking and talking, chatting about what's happened. Carisi tells Benson it was the fourth kid out of ten, and Benson is horrified when she finds out about the Virtue Ball. Obviously we're all on the same page, like we wouldn't be disagreeing with her queen.

So she's also like what and Casey.

Explains it to her and says it's when girls promised to be virgins for their daddy. And Finn is like, well, you know, so much for that promise because ladies three months pregnant dune dune dum sous. Because you know they're not into abortions.

Yeah, yeah, if someone has long sleeves and long.

Skirt, they don't love abortion.

So then Benson looks back at the family and they're in a circle praying in front of the vending machines.

Credits. That's a pretty jam packed opening scene.

Yes, yes, And we come back and we have Benson and Finn talking to the parents and the parents are like, we didn't call the cops, and she's like, yeah, the doctor did obviously. And then, off topic of this child that's pregnant, Benson's highlights are poppin' long hair later season, and I'm wondering if she'll ever go short again.

I feel like she likes long hair and she's never.

I don't think she will now because, like, not to be insulting in any way, but her face has gotten like a little bit white. She doesn't have quite the angular like face that she had in her younger days, and I don't I don't think that that's gonna work.

I know, but they usually say when you become older, to cut your hair, but she defies all odds.

Yeah, is able to rock long hair. So who are these rules? Keep your hair how you want. It's fucked up.

So Benson's like, okay, yeah, that's a thirteen year old pregnant person. So yeah, we're obviously involved, and the dad goes, this is a family matter, and it just is confusing to me because suddenly you know, it's purity Ball, Purity Ball, purity ball, virginity, virginity, and then your kid's pregnant and you're like, it's actually fine. So it's just like, I don't understand the tone of being so into virginity and

Who did it? You fucking hypocrites?

Like how do you travel to go to a purity ball and then try to sweep a pregnant kid under the rug.

It's like it just doesn't make sense.

And there's tons of these moments in this show that are like you are not doing you know, it's like the mental gymnastics people do to believe in the shit they believe in. Yeah, so the parents won't let Benson or anyone talk to the kid, and it's like, you can't, she's upset, and they're like no, we have to and they're like no, and the parents say, well, we want to talk to Lane first. She doesn't even know she's pregnant yet, and Finn is like, yeah, but she knows.

How she got pregnant. Hello.

Mom says, we don't need your help and she's our daughter and we'll take care of her. And Benson explains how she got pregnant is a crime, and the mom says, if she was hurt, she would tell us, but it's like she didn't.

She's pregnant. What the fuck? Three months have gone by. She has not told you what happens.

So then they try to get scooped from the doctor and the doctor is like, I couldn't get a second with her.

The parents were there the whole time and I couldn't talk to her. And then the.

Parents and detectives keep talking. They're like listen, we're good and we keep a good eye on our kids.

Back off, and it's like, no, your kid is pregnant. You did a bad job.

Like yeah, it's a Twilight sub No one makes sense, but they believe it anyways. So Benson asks like, hey, is she alone with any boys? And they say no, of course not, she's homeschooled. Then runs in the pastor perfect timing SVU style, and he is disgusting obviously, and he's like, listen, we're going to handle this with the local authorities. And but you don't think he's a little bit handsome? No, I thought the pastor was a little cute.

No, that hairdoo to me? Is you have seen you? Yeah?

Not great the fashion, the hair is not great. But like facially I was like, oh, this is like a handsome man.

That's a pastor. No, he's gonna have like a Jeffrey Koeberg career. This is a creep.

You will be paying creeps from now on. I will never see him. Now I understand my mother. My mother always hates the people that play villains, and I think she's crazy.

And now I am her. The transition is complete.

Yeah, So he says they're going to handle with local authorities. Which is actually the first time I caught this little foreshadow nugget and I've seen this episode like seven times, but this is a foreshadow. So this pastor is also the family's lawyer. Perfect. So we're back at the precinct.

Like, listen, leave them alone. They just love God, they're just nice.

And Dodds is like, whatever the parents said, no, who cares, and Benson reminds him like, you know, she's thirteen, so it doesn't really matter, and Dodds goes, yeah, but I've tried to penetrate religious Jews and they're very secretive and they're not talking, and that's true too. Yeah, but instead of stopping, we love Benson and why it's because she goes That's why we push harder. You don't say, oh,

Yeah, this isn't Benson's first time tangoing with a religious sect. I mean she's infiltrated the Jews before, and she's not afraid to do it to the Christian.

Yeah. I mean.

Also, like we've learned and this was a listener or suggestion, and it's true, they have to have characters have the opposite point of view to get these lessons across to the public. But Dodds is so annoying. She is so annoying this whole episode, Like she's your fucking boss. Okay, just do what she says. But he shouldn't be a cop if your thing is like, oh, they're secretive, Okay, I guess we have to let kids suffer. Like go on your fucking business trajectory. So Benson's like, listen, this

That's the thing about Rollins.

When we finally get Kelly Giddish on the show, we have to be like, your character knows everything about media and pop culture.

Like she's always like that's the monster, Like she always like knows.

Who the athletic people are, she knows she watches American Diva. I mean, like she knows all pop culture stuff. Maybe we should give her another chance.

So Intent, which was what we're talking about, was on TV yesterday. Truly watched it and then a friend facetimeed me and she goes, So you're just never sick of SVU.

I go, no, it's a sickness. I don't know what to tell you.

It's also episodes we fully covered in depth, and I'm just like sitting pushing plans back, watching Blue Glacier episodes, watching on multiple screens, and it's like I put off SVU work sometimes to just watch other SVU episodes and it's like, just watch the one you have to watch, but I'm like, nah, like it is pretty crazy.

I love finding one. I love finding one where I'm like, I don't remember the ending of this one. I remember sort of what's happening, but what happens It's like Christmas.

Well, I was watching the Amy Smart one and I was jumping up and down.

I couldn't sit.

I got off my bed and started pacing and shaking like I hadn't seen it eight times, like I.

Couldn't believe it.

But I was like, what, I don't remember what happened, Like it was just like a shoot off. It's just great television. So anyway, I mean, this is gonna be so long. This alone is going to be eight hours long.

I can't stop.

Okay, so much opinions out of this son, so Phil Finnan dot Oh my god, if I call him Phil Finn and Dodds. What if, remind, what if I get a shark iced tea tattoo? Because I've wanted a shark tattoo and and an SVU? What if I get a little shark that looks like iced tea? Wow, Well, according to your face, that's a bad idea.

Well, I just I don't understand what that would look like in my mind, I'm trying to put it together.

Well, I don't know, we have iced tea spatial features?

Yeah, but then a Finn, Yeah, okay, I'll talk to Carly.

Your tattoos always turn out great, so who knows.

Oh wow, that's nice of you all. Not always red hot chili pepper on my ankle for life. Okay, well that's a taste level thing, but you know, all right, So Fin and Dodds go check things out, and the elevator doors closed, and Dodds tries to talk shit about Olivia, and it's like to Finn, yeah, they've known each other for two decades. This is Chauvin's behavior.

Though.

This is the thing, like this guy thinks that this other guy is just gonna think this woman is crazy. But it's like gnaw bitch. Finn's on Olivia's side. And this has happened to me where someone tried to talk shit about our friend Megan to me and I was like, are you out of your mind?

Bitch?

And then she acted like a victim because I was not nice to her, But I'm like, you are insane to talk shit about a clear like most of my Instagram photos are with her. Why would you talk shit about Meghan to anyone else but not to me?

Like you will have a problem.

Wait and side note, our friend Meghan had a girl talk shit about her to her. Yeah, this girl was so drunk that she went do you know this girl Meghan? And like she was talking to Meghan? That is one of my favorite stories.

Of all times.

And Meghan added in She's like, oh yeah, tell me. She was like, bitch sucks.

If anyone can talk shit about themselves, it's Megan. Yeah. But I've also been this person.

I talked shit about someone I didn't like and this guy kept being like, no, that's my friend, like when you're not, and I wouldn't stop, and finally I was like, oh, you're a good friend, my bad You are right, you are right, should not have done that this other bitch. No, she just well we're fine now. I yelled at her in an elevator at a festival. But we're friends. Yeah, we wave to each other anyways. He's like, listen, is she always this proactive? And I just goes, is there

Dods, You're not hot, so some people think he is.

No one thinks okay, so people think yeah, the people that are like, why is much not on your sexy games?

And it's like you can like someone off killed her. There's someone for everyone. Yeah, I guess.

Dods is not hot though, and I'm mad that you're trying to argue with me about that.

I'm look, look, look, look, he's not for me. But people a lot of people were like Dods. Like people like Dods.

Yeah, they to kill him for us to be like sympathetic to him.

He had to fully die for us to be like, all right, I feel bad.

Oh you know who I think is hot? Not baby Dods. But Stone. I kind of think Stone is hot in like a Wall Street kind.

Of like just Stone is classic good looks of course. Yeah, oh I think George Clute is hot. I'm a weird help we know Stone is hot. He could play Superman.

Yeah, I don't know.

I feel like Dods is kind of in the same like category as those guys.

Okay, okay, Dods is a physical Baby Dodds.

Yeah, baby Peter Gallagher is hotter than Baby Dods. You know, Peter Gallagher is like fucked hot. Hollywood women like he Yeah, I mean he.

Was remember while you were sleeping? He was a hot guy. I love that movie.

Yeah, yeah, that's a Chicago movie for Sandraw Bullocks Chicago. Anyways, We're in this goddamn elevator and Isa's response is perfect, give him a medal. He goes, She's been doing this a long time. If she thinks something is fucked, it is, so.

Who are yeah? Who are YEA?

So the hospital discharged them, obviously, Ice is like what the fuck? Nurses like, oh oops, it's said.

To call you.

We didn't my bad, but SBUs very acab are they also anti nurse? Like, I just wonder what this is because it's really mean.

It's fucked up.

So we follow the detectives to the bus outside the church and they're trying to peace out, and the parents are doing a video segment like all smiles to the camera, and Chris Elliott is the cameraman, so that's who helped earlier when the daughter passed out.

He is the cameraman we learn.

So Finn and Dodds are like, hey, what's up, and they're like no, no, no, no, no no. Finn says, well, you guys were in New York in July. It couldn't happened here, so we're gonna like figure out who this was. And a crowd starts forming, and since they want their like baggage to be secret, they agree to go to the precinct and chat, so there's not like a crowd listening. And Chris's running a day okay, He's watching other kids, he's feeding the vending machine snacks, he's getting the kid's pizza.

What's going on? What happened? They flew to New York to cover graffiti? I did not pick up on that. I did not.

Pick up on that the most pointless of charity work you can do.

It's like.

Your fly, why don't you feed some people? Why don't you hand out tampons to some shelters? Like what the fuck is going on? To fly through multiple state lines or driving this god forsaken bus to cover up graffiti?

Like is there? Why? Who cares? Who needs this so nuts? Who needs so nuts? To cover up graffiti? And think you're doing a good job?

Like this is like the cold sure that I don't understand why religious people don't just stop.

I'm like I'm lumping him in with people.

It's like you hated rock and roll, you lost, you didn't want SegReg you know, you didn't want schools to what is it?

Integrate? Integrate?

And you were wrong? Like you're wrong about everything? When do you just go, you know what? Let the graffiti stay? Yeah, don't look at it truly on a like on.

The bottom of a list of problems with New York City that could use some help, you know what I mean?

Like the bottom is the graffiti ran.

Some trees, pick up some dog shit, just give sanitation kits to the homeless, like there are water bottles on a hot day.

Truly, so many ways to help people, that is the kitchens. I mean yeah, the options are endless, like scraping off somebody's tag, I mean please. I wonder if they got the idea from Sister Act or something in the montage, but well maybe they were like, nothing would have ever happened to that sweet little boy Logan who was up on that roof.

Maybe they were referring to identity.

He never would have been a guy's penis going down and actually was Lucas, not Logan, but yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, we know, we know. So anyways, he's like, did you notice anything creepy? We need your help, and he goes, no, it's just us, you know, and the crew, and that's that.

So then.

They're gonna talk to Lane without the parents, and the dads really livid that they're going to do that, and they go, yeah, but that's policy.

So that's what it is.

And the mom is with Rollins and Ra and the mom asks Rollin's like, hey, is your husband okay with you working with so many men, and it's just like perfect line of questioning, and Rollins goes, it's not a problem, and then she guesses how many months along Rollins is and notices no wedding ring and just assumes it's because her hand is swelling. And it's just like, I love

So Benson is with the girl and she's like, girl, tell me who it is, who it is, and she says, no, this guy wouldn't hurt me.

He loves me. And she's like, you said you wouldn't say it. Why don't you write it down so then it's not breaking your promise.

Or as Derinda would say, say it, forget it, write it down, regret it. Ever, when Derenda say that about text messages, no, but who sent a Tyler Perry quote?

That was part of it?

Okay, but then Derenda sent it to Perry quote. So it's like, I don't know who's right here, Drinda. Anyway, Sorry, that's our Housewives segment for today.

So Chris Elliot's and the other crew guys are putting the gear on the truck and he says, don't worry. They'll ship her off to some camp in the woods and we'll be up and running in no time. Think again, Finn and Creasy ask him for a DNA sample. They say, open your mouth. They have a warrant to look through everything, and that you rape Laney. And it's like what And even the mom has like Pete our cameraman, no way did Pete do this.

He's like he's watched the kids grow up. We trusted him. There's no way.

The parents refuse an amnio obviously to like try to connect the DNA, you know, And she goes, we don't believe in things like that.

What don't you believe in? What is this?

Even this isn't in the Bible. An amnio is not a thing that has any morality built into it. What are you fucking talking about? They think it would endanger the life of the baby. Okay, but your baby is pregnant.

I know. I mean, I know you okay, So anyways, I'm not taking it personally.

So the mom is like, well, why don't you just get him to confess? So isn't that your job? So Benson reminds her, like, hey, girl, like you have other daughters, So mate, let's make sure we get to the bottom of this. Chrisy and Finner with Chris Elliot in interrogation, and I noticed Chris Elliot, Chris Maloney, Elliott Stabler, that's a fun little name. But he has a gray Camo laptop and there's footage of the teen girls changing in the bathroom and he denies the rape. He's like, yes,

He didn't do it. Laney is lying.

She's obviously protecting someone closer to the family, and I love this twist.

Yeah, it's a great twist.

But it's also like, are you like, do these idiot religious people are don't like, do you guys know that about DNA testing?

Like they're gonna check and see if this man is the dad, you know, like we've just talked to you about an amnio. You can't like this fake story is like not gonna go anywhere.

You know.

Al also entitlement their small town and we'll learn more about their dumbass town. But I this is one of my top twenty moments of spew. I would say, like, I love this vasectomy drop.

Yeah.

They ask why she would say it was you, and he goes, you know what, I've been thinking about this in my head the whole time, and he's like, listen, she's a good girl and she does what she's told.

And this family protects their own.

And he has tons of footage in the cloud and he's gonna reveal some fucking secrets. And Dodd says, maybe he just looks like a creep and isn't a creep shade. He doesn't even look creepy, like Dods, you look more fucked up. Careesy shows the tapes and it's the brother Graham who's a problem. He's like touching the piano teacher's boobs, and the town judge knew this and sent him away to camp. Write you for Jesus, freak scorebad. The camp is in Allenville, and so now they have to go.

Oh my god.

These the mental gymnastics can't stop fucking saying that. So the judge is playing golf with the pastor's dad and the son is the family lawyer. Like, you know, there's just a lot of ancestual shit happening in this town and it's very insular, and they're just showing how like these powerful dudes play golf together and are in charge of everything. And Christi and Finn are driving and it's very get out vibes. And if you've not seen get Out,

So Benson would never call the girl of a bitch. Okay. So they're doing a normal parent thing, like we did a great job raising her.

She wouldn't lie. She wouldn't lie. And it's like the parents, you actually suck, that's why we all have problems.

Okay.

So Benson brings Graham into the conversation and they say, whatever, he's a boy, it's show, it's curiosity.

We dealt with it.

And he's actually now an Ecuador for a mission trip, so you can't talk to him. And Dad's like, oh, you guys work fast, motherfuckers. And Benson gets in the pastor's face and is like the judge or your dad called, you told you. And now Graham's out of town, like we see what's going on, and he turns like lawyer card immediately.

And kicks them out of the church.

Benson can't leave and tries to appeal to the mom's inner spirit of wanting to keep her kids safe, and she says, these issues don't just go away, and your daughter needs help back of the precinct. It's group project time. They're all together. Rollin's with the info. Says she's been watching the show and they usually show the whole pregnancy in the show, but not with the latest kid.

With Tate, who's two years old.

Everyone's spaced out, but not Tate, who was born eleven months apart. And usually she announces all the pregnancies pretty early, but they didn't with Tate. It wasn't until seven months, and there's like really no photos, and like there's just a bunch of photos of her not pregnant within the time and nothing makes sense. So then they're like, holy shit, maybe Graham and pregnant another sister, and that's fucking Tate.

Okay.

So we're dealing with DNA tech Susan Chung, so finally we get some science involved. The baby is not an incest baby, so who did this? And rollin Suddenly something goes wrong ouch ouch and needs to go to the hospital. Kriese's there with her, telling her she needs rest, and doctors agree she needs to be on bed rest. She's questioning all her life decisions, which I agree with, but she is having this baby, and you know, Cariese tolds

It's the fucking pastor.

He gets them away from the family, Like he gets the kids away from the family alone and then molests them, so you.

Know, and it's a good old pastor.

The pastor's like, listen, we're gonna go white graffiti off. Can I grab a kid? And they go, yeah, take the kid, pastor, and so diabolical, This fucker is evil and Kara likes him, so.

No, I just think he has a cute face.

Finn and Dobbs come in to get him, and he's wearing like the biggest silver cross I've ever seen. He starts babbling about jealousy and fear about the Christians and they he calls New York Camorra and how he's there to save the souls and they ask for a DNA sample and they have a warrant. He shocked, but they got to do the DNA test, so ha ha ha ha, And it's a match. It's a paternal match. Tape to the pastor, he is the rapist. They go on a chase to find him and they are getting married at

The detectives run in.

This is a thirteen year old girl, yes, and a grown ass man who is a lawyer slash pastor.

Yeah, where does he find the time? Okay?

So the detectives run in to stop this child bride wedding thing and it's so fucked and the parents are just standing there watching as their little kid gets married off. And the cop that gave them the papers like helps lead them in so you know, we love him. She and she just turned fourteen and the dad is the judge and it's legal and they're just gonna get married. And the dad says the pastor is just helping us out and willing to provide for her and the baby and he'd be a great son in law.

And Benson looks.

So angry, like so angry, and looks at the mom and goes, you gave consent and like they think.

They're protecting their daughter.

So the mom is like, this is good, and we'll give a bit, you know, give the baby a name and be like the father figure. And then it's like, well this is fitting because he is the father and the mom's face drops.

She is shook.

So Benson gives her the scoop and is like, listen, the pastor's the dad and to Summer's baby, and mom says Summer didn't have a.

Baby, and it's like, come on, we know, yeah, jig is up. Yeah.

And then the pastor is also a lawyer, so then he's like, what we're done talking to you, And then he adds that Tate's DNA is admissible in court because you didn't get permission to test it, and then Careesy has an amazing burn and goes, it's really bad that you're making a legal argument right now. Ough perfect. I hope I get to use that in person one day.

That was my next note.

Yeah, like, why are you making a legal argument if you didn't do it? Usually you go, I didn't do it.

I didn't do it. I would never.

I would never, you know. But DNA doesn't lie, and Benson looks so hot. Then we find out Graham never said he did it to the parents. The pastor said that Graham confessed to him. So we was also willing to sell this boy down to a different country to get away with this. Runs to Lane and says, tell me the truth. It's okay. She says, he loves me and it's God's plan for us. And he's still saying that, you know, we're gonna get married, and she starts screaming.

This is a kid.

What are you guys not wanting to investigate? And now all of a sudden, like the spell has been broken. It's midnight Cinderella's style, and she's like, this is a child.

What are you doing?

And she screams and summer and it seems like she cares about summer more than this kid.

But whatever.

He then says, Frank, control your wife, and she says no, and he says, you don't say no to your husband, and so she then says she will testify about Tate and everything. The pastor still tries to talk his way out of this, like you don't want to let your fans down, do you. So the mom apologizes to Lane and is like I should have protected you, and she says, I'm sorry. He told me this is what people in love do. And the mom says, they will tell the truth.

Court or something.

It's like, you, why are you still having attitude, and he says none of this will hold up in court and says, I love you to Lane one more time.

And it's still cocky.

And the Breakers are now on the news speaking out about all the abuse and the pastor and everything, and the squad is watching this confession news conference on New York One. Shout out to our friend Allison Libey, she loves New York One.

Shout out to Pat Kiernan.

Yeah, and pastor is pleading to multiple counts of statutory rape. Finn asks DoD if he still thinks this was a waste of time, and he goes, no, but I thought we'd be taking, you know, down rapists off the street, not from churches, and Benson goes, nah, rapists hunt where they are trusted, not in the streets.

And then that's it. Dodds learns a lesson Boom.

And that is the major lesson of rape crimes that I think is so misunderstood too, is like it's.

Not just like yeah, shadowy figures in alleys, you.

Know, yeah, and it's used as a way to like discredit victims. Stories are like but what about the and it's like, no, it's confusing. You don't want to turn on your friends. You're manipulated and it's just not really understood. Yeah, all right, let's go baby, true crime, duggar it go.

Okay, let's get into the true situation.

Crime. Yeah, it's a crime. There's crime. Yeah, this is your crime.

I want to say first, I realized as you were talking about it, Lisa, that the whole mom having the secret baby, that's definitely I think based on Sarah Palin. That's it's definitely based on people think that her youngest baby, Trig,

You know.

So interesting, But that's not obviously what this episode is based on. We are clearly talking about the Douggers, the Dugger family. This was interesting for me to research because, like I said, I knew like visually what they looked like, sitting in a fucking mass of children, but I'd never actually looked into anything about them. They came to prominence with their TLC reality show Seventeen Kids in Counting, which later became eighteen Kids Accounting and then nineteen Kids in

Sorry. And they're nineteen.

Kids who all have names that begin with the letter J. And I do remember reading something about them in like a magazine like People or something, where I read one was named j I N G E R. And I was like, Jinger, but it's ginger. I couldn't understand why someone wu was named their kid Jinger.

But yeah, I don't. Should I name all their names?

Oh? Yeah, Okay, We've got Joshua, Jana, John, David, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, joy Anna, Jedediah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Joanna, Jennifer, Jordan, Grace, and Josie. And I think those are all the names that begin with Jay.

I wish you read it like Cleatus from the Simpsons when he was naming his kids.

But it's okay, Oh, I don't know that. I know you do it. How does he do it? Later?

But I have all the name I have a screenshot of all the name. He goes, Oh, Melias, I'm bad at that.

Don't put me on this. I shouldn't have said anything. Keep going, keep going.

Or like when Bubba Gump when he's doing when he's doing all the kinds of shrimps.

Yes, Jana John David. Okay, But what I love.

Is like these people think they're like so devout and morally superior, and it's like you have the same naming like theory as the Kardashians.

You ain't s you know, Like.

It's so nuts. My aunt did this. I only have three cousins, but they all have m names and I'm just like, why why I don't understand that at all. But okay, So the Duggers are devout Baptists. They preached the values of purity, modesty, and faith in God. The parents got married at seventeen and nineteen, respectively. The wife was seventeen, the husband was nineteen, and they actually did use birth control pills earlier in their marriage, so they

And it led to a miscarriage, which can happen.

And so then that was when they decided to allow God to determine the number of children they would have or you can pull out, but whatever. So that's when they started having just like a shit ton of children. And I think she was having a kid like every couple of years, their kid or every eighteen months.

I believe she was having kids.

And their kids had very limited exposure to media and mainstream forms of entertainment, and the kids would do something called group dating when they came of age, like they would go on groups where they got to know people in group settings. And the show started in two thousand and eight. It ran for ten seasons and it was one of TLC's highest rated shows. It was truly a

That's another thing that upsets me. It's all about like chastity for the girls. Girls, girls, and it's like all the boys are running around committing crimes. Yeah, maybe, why don't you put some parenting onto these fucking boys. Yeah, exactly, Hiding that your son is molesting people. It's like they're the lowest of the low and they will burn in hell. Yeah, JK, we're Jews, we don't believe in that.

But so I actually looked at the police report. There are like screenshots of the police report which I will put into our show notes our sources. But the police report was filed in two thousand and six, and it was about events that happened in two thousand and two slash two thousand and three, and that was when Josh

Yes? No, I won't.

All right, I'll do it a Southern accent. Before you air the Dougger family from Arkansas with redacted, you need to know the truth. They are not what they seem to be. Redacted has molested redacted while redacted we're sleeping and the parents have been hid in this secret for a long time. Jimbob lies to his church and his friends to make him look good. At this moment, he is in trouble with the church for lying about redacted and things that concern the way the church members redacted.

Wow, I had no person who wrote the letter.

The person who wrote the email, but like, I had no idea there was like an Oprah connection in this whole thing.

It's kind of wild.

So the report says that the Dugger parents were then brought in They confirmed the allegations to the police. They were like, yes, we knew about this. We discipline Josh for these acts. Jim Bob said that he consulted the elders of his church and they agreed that Josh would go to a treatment program. A treatment program Jimbob completely forgot the name of. He's like, oh, I forgot what

Yeah, but what if your kid's actually the most evil and he's teaching the others. You know, It's like it's always like, my kid wouldn't lie, my kid wouldn't do that.

I can't send my kid.

Your kid is the criminal, yes, for sure, blinded by love.

Some of these parents, not me.

Rosie's going to jail, Okay, So they put Josh into this Christian program in Little Rock for three months from March to July of two thousand and three, which consisted of hard physical labor and counseling. And I think nothing stops a sinful boner like hard physical work and counseling. And I'm being sarcastic that obviously probably did nothing. The Douggers said that they felt that no further assaults took place after Josh's treatment, But how could we ever fucking

Even know about.

Another part of the report says that a family member who the Douggers would not identify.

Wrote a letter.

They wrote a letter down about what had happened at the time in two thousand and three, put it in a book, and then the book was completely forgotten about, and then the book was lent out to someone in the Dougger's church and eventually found. And the person who found that letter is the one who called the hotline wow, and maybe the one that wrote the email to Oprah who knows.

They won't reveal who this person is.

So Jim Bob said that Josh confessed to a state trooper what he did after he returned to rehab, but no report was ever filed. And wouldn't you know that state trooper is currently serving fifty six years in Arkansas prey on child pornography charges.

That state trooper later said, if I thought he had.

Done it more than once, I would have reported him, like he thought the kid was just confessing a singular incident. Anyway, there is a lot more in this report if you want to read it in like I said in our show, sources, but a lot of it is redacted as you get into it, so when you're reading it, it's kind of just like three words and then a black square, and then three words and a black square. So you kind of have to infer all of this. But we know

I know.

In some states the statute limitations is five years, but four years seems like not a lot of time. First, I think five is a crazy amount, so I can't imagine four.

But I don't know. They just don't press charges against Josh.

And then a fun fact is like in May two thousand and two, kind of around when these actual crimes were happening, Jim Bob, the father of this family, lost a primary bid for a Republican Senate seat, in which he ran on a platform that quote, rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes end quote. So while this man's own son is molesting his daughters incestually, he's out there going incest is the worst crime, like, and it's like you don't

Another way, that's so interesting you said that, because that's the whole thing. Like people are like, oh, this good religious family, and it's like no, no, no, they wanted fame, yeah, running for and then this like they just wanted attention. So it's like fake humble, it's fake righteous. It's like so fake in every way yeah, for sure.

So now that was all going down in two thousand and six.

In two thousand and seven, the internet is like buzzing about the Douggers, Like people are talking about them on message boards and shit, and I'm reminding you they don't even have a show at this point yet people are just talking about this fucked up family in Arkansas on

And this is very much housewives. It's like, if you're committing crimes, why are you going on TV and spending cash on camera? And that's this It's like, your son is a known molester, why are you then going on television? You fucking see. I mean, I'm glad they did. I'm glad you know they got caught, but right.

Confusing but seven like for seven years they were just on TV being like, no one's going to know our secret, and then their plans were foiled by in Touch weekly the Duggers. So this is how they're spinning it, going on Fox News and shit, they're spinning it as the bigger story that Josh's police records were released under a Freedom of Information Act requests, and they threatened to sue to quote unquote protect juvenile records because mistakes juvenile make when they're young should be sealed.

That's what Jim Bob said.

So they're like, we're persecuted because our baby's secret got revealed. In July of twenty fifteen, TLC pulls the plug on the Duggers, so finally the show gets canceled.

Josh's wife now, now, Josh.

Has since obviously married to a woman named Anna, and she said that she knew about Josh's crimes two years before she married him and believed that the counseling he received had quote unquote changed his life. Okay, two months later, in October of that same year, things keep going badly for Josh Dougger, who admits to being unfaithful to his wife Anna after a Gauka report comes out claiming that he was a member of the Ashley Madison website, which we all know, which they say in this in this

It's not like that's its sole purpose, no.

But the tagline is come here to cheat, you can cheat secretly. Got it, Oh, is your wife pregnant, you can go fuck a slut here Like that's yeah, that's when the subscribe.

That's like usually when men cheat on their wives.

Yeah.

I knew a girl in high schoo I knew a girl from high school who writes like these big experiential journalistic pieces, you know, like I got an enema on a date. Here's how it went, and like they're all for like Playboy and different magazines and shit. And she did a one about joining Ashley Madison to become a sugar baby. So I owe, in my mind, I always kind of think it's about sugar babies and sugar daddies,

End of end quote.

And he released that via douggerfamily dot Com. Now, like, yes, I'm I'm glad you're admitting what a hypocrite you are. As so many religious people are super super hypocrites. But like you're basically saying that a pornography addiction led you to this unfaithfulness. And it's like, no, you just you cheated on your wife, like you're blame You're still blaming something else. To me, he's blaming the internet pornography on why he cheated on his wife, you know what I mean.

We've never gone to jail or anything.

No, I mean, he was a kid when it happened too, it was he was fourteen when it happened. I bet if the cops had actually dug in in Arkansas, they would have found that he was continuing.

To molest or like you know, do stuff like that later.

But I mean the fact that the judge ordered for the like documents to be destroyed. I didn't realize that part was true in the episode. And again we talk about this NonStop, but it's like, stop telling people to go to the cops, or why don't you go to the cops, or if this happened, you should have done this or that, And it's like the cops and judge the lead are destroying complaints and documents. It's like, the fuck, it's so fucked yuh up.

Yeah yeah, So now we don't hear anything about the duggers and not nothing we obviously for some reason, People Magazine keeps posting when these people get married or when they have a kid, and like the two of the younger daughters get like a spin off show about them having kids. Like it's like gross, how obsessed people are with this family.

But I wonder if.

People are watching it like us that are like, oh I want to see these freaks, or how many like or is it religious people being like these are our heroes?

I know, I wonder what the percentage is.

I bet you could tell a lot by looking at like a demographic map of like who's watching it, like, because I'm sure the people that are like in their area are like this is an example of perfect like pious, righteous living, and then the people that are watching it in New York City are clearly like, you know, watching.

It to see look at how these weirdos live.

But now fast forward to twenty twenty one, this current year of our Lord, and this past April April twenty fourth, Josh Douger and his wife Anna announced they are pregnant with their seventh child. They all have m names, by the way, VARV, which US Magazine published. And I think that you guys need to just like stop keeping up with Josh Dugger, Like why are you posting like a a birth announcement for a child, like a former child molester, well not a former I don't know what you would say,

He could get up to twenty years in federal prison. I hope he gets the max.

Yeah, And don't worry, his dumb wife is still standing by her man.

And I want you to know.

That I am reading articles on Fox News for you guys here, so you're welcome, Like I'm actually doing the things you don't want to be doing. Uh. And I read an article where his wife was like they were saying his that like divorce is like not even an option for her. She's a good Christian girl and she would not even consider that. Josh is currently living with third party custodians at a home away from his aunt

Yeah, he's pulling a Hank Abraham everything he can. Yeah, he's just grasping at straws. And I always I mean, obviously this is not true, but it's like if the FBI or US Marshals are involved, you're pretty much guilty.

Yeah, Cause it's just like for me, internet stuff is like a little bit different than like, you know, crimes on the street or whatever. It's like, I wasn't there. I have an alibi. It's like, no, it's your computer. It's like your IP address. Like stuff is a little bit more. You know, you paid for this with your credit card, et cetera, et cetera.

And it's like what we hate them all for.

And it's still just like and the wife won't divorce them because she is a good person, and it's like it's all, it's all still put on this woman who has to like stick by this child molester. And I'm going off of no evidence at all. There's no way this motherfucker did not molest.

The childild, right, because I bet you that a lot of people are like he was fourteen fifteen, he was in a religious environment where he was he was not allowed to have any sexual outlet, so of course he molested his sisters, Like I could see people arguing that.

But now that he's.

Gone through puberty and he's married to like a woman, he's you know, probably getting the sex life that he needs from his wife. And I'm sure he hasn't committed any crimes. And it's like no, now now he has a child pornography like charge.

Yeah, and it's like twenty twenty one, what was I looking forward to my birthday?

Halloween? And now this fucking trial add it to the list.

All right, Well we have like if you guys are like, wow, what a bummer of a crime, we have such a great guests coming up, So you're gonna have your palette cleansed. Okay, I'm so excited for you guys to hear our chat with our next guest. She is a Tony nominated actress her performance in the Playhand to God on Broadway.

But you can see her now on.

The show Bull, which is every Thursday night on CBS at ten pm. She has been on all of the Law and Orders multiple times and has been on SVU three times. But we are talking with her today about her role as Pam Baker. Guys, we're talking to the one and only Geneva Carr. Wait, so you just got back from France. Tell us what's going on in France?

Less than forty eight hours ago. I went to graduate school there and the lady that I taught English too, who I didn't do a great job, I'll admit it. We're still like this and I go see them all the time. And I went to spend time with her and her family and we did a Pilates retreat that was utterly life affirming after this very painful year.

Yeah, whereabouts in France?

I was in Paris, and then I went to Normandy to see friends and the plates restreat. Retreat was in La Drome, which is in the southeast part of France but not up to the water, so it's where they grow lavender.

Oh wow, my god.

I was in lavender fields.

So pilates all day.

How much pilates versus you know, chatting and hanging.

It's plates in the morning, pilates in the afternoon, a lot of chatting. And the French like to eat dinner around eleven o'clock at night.

So yeah, who.

We were at the pool, but it was ten ladies and just like everywhere in life, everybody had gone through something traumatic and come out the other side. And I it just makes me so grateful to be able to spend time and learn from people after this gear of sadness and loss and loneliness. There was ice cream, but there was a lot.

Of this episode jam packed with drama. Did it look and seem feel creepy or did it feel like a set? One was just like a child and the men and everyone's wearing white dresses and then the kid wedding at the end.

Was that like off putting the look at or.

How What was so interesting is that Ryan Devlin, who played the bad guy. I hope I've spoiled it for everyone who'll watch it in the future, but.

They've just listened to us recap the entire episode.

Oh goodness, looks Ryan looks like he was on the cover of Tiger Beat Andy. He's like a preteen girls fantasy of a man because he's so innocent and sweet and kind. So it was creepy to know that was the bad guy. And those kids, My god, how many kids did I have? You know, Bakers doesn't.

Yeah, it was.

They were all so sweet. They were all so sweet, and I run into them all the time. And Victoria, her dad wrote a movie and they asked me to do it and I couldn't because of my schedule. But I'm in touch with all those kids. I talked to Victoria, touch to Rachel, who is my oldest daughter, who was the one babysitting the little kid, because apparently this mom just passed her kids off to the one that got bigger. Yeah, but Victoria is a tiny little thing. Oh wow, it's pretty creepy.

I can't believe you kept in touch with the kids.

I loved those kids.

They were so amazing.

We were wondering, was it like twenty five sets of parents on the on the set, like, because they all have to have their parents with them.

The minute you turn eighteen, they don't have to be there, so anybody taller than me was okay, just the little tiny kids.

Yeah, yeah, Well we were also wondering, like, how was it because you obviously have like a great fashion sense French, et cetera, but like you had to wear these, like, you know, turtleneck dresses. What was what was the wardrobe situation like for you?

The wardrobe situation was a little painful because I felt amish. I don't know how to say that in a nice way. Just baggy, unattractive clothes. Turtlenecks just make they make me look awful. So I felt really homely. But I felt very maternal because Victoria, who played the girl that you know had the mishap, shall we say it, was this tiny, little feminine angel, So it was easy to think about someone other than myself. On a daily basis, I'm completely self involved, but on that day it was nice.

Did you get along with your co star who played your husband?

Well, I can out him because he's already out in the open, but I've had a crush on him for about fifteen years. And his husband came to the set.

That is that would not be accepted in their religion. That would be right, okay.

Well not unexpected, but you know, and where did you. When did you develop the crush on him? Was he in something that you saw him in?

I saw him at an audition and I just was smitten. And he tells really funny story when he quit doing commercial acting because he had to show up to a commercial audition and pretend to be a bear and stand on a table and undress and like Patti's chest. He just said that was his last commercial audition, and I was there, and I think he was so charming telling that story. So it's ever it's been like fifteen years. Was it don Kay's casting? I'll never forget it? And

Have you ever met someone at an audition that you've hooked up with or stayed friends with?

I never hooked up, but I have stayed friends with. I would say seventy five percent of the people I audition with. There's a funny thing that happens in New York where when you audition with people I used to call us the usual suspects. They're looking for a middle aged blonde, I know everybody. And then there's something also great in New York when they want a middle aged harmless looking lady. You all see each other, and so

Well, better part of it is also you, because it seems like you still keep in touch with the kids you worked with and all these people, so it probably is your friendly spirit as well.

We'll see if you and I stay in touch.

Yeah.

Well, speaking of auditions, since you were in the Dick Wolf universe and done so many of the crime shows, did was this an offer only or how did this come about?

It was my first offer. I have some exciting news. Warren Light is the show runner of SBU and he writes and he wrote it for me.

Wow.

But yeah, your first episode was with Amanda Plumber, you played her sister, and then your second episode was Mahershela, and then your third was this one.

Yeah, that Amanda Plumber episode's one of my favorites.

Amanda Plumber was not acting. She was so amazing that even when we weren't filming, she decided to stay in character and she was that fragile all through the week long shoot. She was astounding to watch.

Wow.

Yeah, Wow, that's how she does it. She can't get out of character. She had to stay focused to play that lady.

Yeah. And I think she won an Emmy for that.

Oh she deserved it. Yeah, I think she did.

Yeah. Well.

Being in the SVU universe for so many years, have you noticed any changes on set or with the vir or any sort of like big different changes from your first to last episode.

Yes, because my first episodes, Maloney was number one, Marishka was number two, and then he left to do something else. We all know he has a great show, and they did that stuff together because they have such great chemistry. But the number one really dictates the vibe, and Maloney is very serious. He's there to work. I mean, he's

And how do you get to that place when you have to cry on, like you said, a drop of a hat and do multiple takes? Do you think how do you get to the crying spot?

That is a.

Great question, And I actually have to say that it's the writing that really matters. If the writing leads you there, then you lean into the writing because you can't cry about nothing. So that episode was so intense to fight. That's the moment I find out that my thirteen year old daughter was giving birth to the pastor's baby, and the writing led me there and looking at that little girl, I mean they cast a teeny I think she was seventeen at the time, but she looked eleven. So that

And were you aware of the duggers when you went to film this episode.

Oh heaven, STEVETSI, I sure was. I actually watched some dugger to get a load of it, and I brought my hair extensions in because Mamma Douggar has really thick hair those having all those children to take away that for her, and they didn't give me a ponytail because it was too dugger. She's big on the ponytail. But yes, I wanted to recreate some of that. I think I was definitely inspired by Mama Dougar.

Yeah, they're like sweetness and the naivete is that the word for sure? Like the innocence of it is there anywhere else you drew inspiration from the character besides the Duggars.

Yeah, I was wondering if you knew ever had any religious fanatics in your life where you could get inspiration.

I was raised Catholic, but it's the same thing. There's a there's a naivete and also a willingness to go along with who's in charge. And I used my dad was a deacon, my mother was a secretary for a priest, and I thought a lot about how the Catholic Church teaches subservience. And so I don't know if you remember, in the first scene we're we're questioned by Mauritia, I looked to my husband every time I answered because I wanted to get his approval. That was something that I

Yeah, So you've done like so many law and orders. You've done Blue Blood's Elementary Bull is a legal show in a way, Like, is this just kind of your genre, this like the legal stuff, or just kind of where you're I don't know.

Well, I think there's so much of this kind of TV in New York that that's what I've done. But I came from theater and I did kind of crazy comedy, you know.

Yeah, Well we saw you, We saw you been on like Onion stuff and Chappelle's Show. So I was wondering your feelings on comedy. Is that like, I mean, obviously you probably have feelings that they're both fun to do in different ways.

But well, I.

Think it's funny that you say that. We have new showrunners on Bowl and we had interviews with the new showrunners and the writers, and they said, what are your goals this year? What would you like us to accomplish for you? And I said, I want to speak French. I'd like to date a man of color, and I'd like to be funny. And one of our writers used to be the head writer on Mysteries of Laura. Oh okay, and that was a really funny show. And he kindly timed in for me and said that I was funny.

I love it.

If you were to come back to SVU for your fourth time, what would be your dream role?

Yeah, that is a great question.

Because you've been a victim's sister, You've been a victim, and now you've been like sort of this mom main character.

But what haven't you done?

I think I would like to be a stepmother who has a romantic relationship with her step son and I would like them to try to prove to me that it's wrong, and I'd go to prison and I just can't understand. You know, love is love. It's hideous, but it would be so fun to play. To be such a wicked, awful person, but to think that you're really just loving someone.

That is a great answer.

We get like a young Timothy Chalomet type in there to play your steps on.

Oh god, I'm ready, Where do my said?

What a superstar she was dressed. I love so good.

She has such a good attitude, and I just I want to eat chocolate with her in her closet.

You're both in closets and I want her to take me to France. Yes, we're both closet cases.

Drinking champagne in her closet while eating like a box of chocolates where we each eat half and like have Like that's what I imagine doing with Geneva.

Yeah, she should start a podcast called dark Chocolate and Dry Champagne. And that's what she does. People come to her closet, she wears awesome outfits. They speak a little French and then they gap.

And I'll be like, can I call you Jenny, And She'll be like no, no, no, no, That's what I want with our girl, Geneva. And I can't wait to see her love scenes. Don't you watch bull or no Bosh bull Bosh. She like it all well, I don't.

Yeah, I actually don't watch bull but I might start watching it because I love her so much, So it's possibility. It's a possibility. But let's get into our post mortem. What did we learn from today's episode, Lisa? Besides that religion is creepy in a lot of times.

Yeah, I guess we don't have to keep harping that, like your daughter's virginity shouldn't be the core. I don't know, guiding principle and characteristic of your child shouldn't be just what's between their legs.

Right, or you should actually have like real conversations with your kids about sex so that they kind of can identify when they're trying to be taken advantage of by a pastor, because clearly.

She didn't really know what was going on.

Don't trust any pastor that's also a lawyer. I would say that if they need a dual citizenship like that, that's no, no.

No duels. They're causing problems.

Yeah, I think we learned that religious ladies, you guys need a new Hairdo you need to just come up with something different? It can't just be what I call some here up, some here down with a poof and a long and a long crimp.

Yeah, just don't have a ton of kids? Is that bad?

More than ten? You can't.

I mean, China has the bad rule of more than one's a problem and it leads to bad things and murdered girl babies.

But I think ten. Can we have a limit of ten? I mean, I think the limit should be lower. And I'm coming from a family of I'm one of six, my mom's one of fourteen, so I think the limit should be even lower. But listen, I think that what's crazy is like, let God decide how many kids we're going to have, like God. Also, if you believe that God also made birth control possible. God made the person who discovered birth control allowed that to happen, So birth

It's weird. Too many kids, Yeah, especially if one's a molester. You know, Yeah, I don't know what that even means.

And like, it doesn't make you a good person to stand by your husband that continually breaks the law, breaks your trust, you know, has to keep writing confessional statements about their hypocrisy on Facebook.

If once they've written a couple, it's okay for you to leave.

It's so clear that men in power created religion. It just seems a little too convenient. It's like you have to do everything domestic and do what I want and fuck when I want and I'm always right, and it's like that's the really okay, Well that seems that seems like a kid making up rules and monopoly to win, right, But that also is a gun to your head, Like that is like what is this? Like you have to question life a little bit, just a little bit, I don't know, to be like I hope my daddy likes

Kids were pulling a prank on me. Lazy you got pranked.

I did, but I was in a full on panic. I called downstairs. I sent an engineer up. The security came, they caught the kids and they're like, we can call the police. I'm like, we definitely don't have to call the police. We won't be pressing charges. What's the charge? What's the charge?

I don't know.

I was like diservance of disturbance of the comedian, like what are you?

What are you like?

I don't even know, scaring scaring women that are easily spooked, I don't know. But I was like looking at the peep hole stressed, you.

Know which I mean. It's true.

It's like ninety percent of that hotel people are probably watching s view because it is hotel viewing. So you're walking around just like scaring a very easily scared population.

Yeah, or it's like someone cheating on their wife and so it's like you're you know, they're gonna be nervous.

They right, everybody's a little on edge in a hotel.

Well, I've never stayed in a hotel in my hometown. Oh ever, like obviously in Chicago, but never in Skokie.

Yeah, and you've done airbnb's there, but never a hotel.

Yeah.

It is pretty wild to like be by the mall, you know, I feel poul just walking to my nephew's coming to soul cycle with me, my little one, the littler one.

Oh, I cannot wait.

I think it'll be fun or you'll think I'm crazy. I'm embarrassed, so cute. I'm embarrassed to like go like, I don't know, we'll see what.

Happens to really like pull out all the stops and like get to the top of that hill.

Yeah, or what if I start crying? Like what if they play Kesha in the right moment and I tear up? Tell them it's sweat. Wait, I did learn so we also this is obvious us, but don't let your pastor marry or child. That's just to throw that in just if anyone didn't realize, right, yeah.

He's wrong with you? What's in your eye? Nothing?

I was trying to figure out why that pastor was like single to begin with, Like why does not that pastor have a wife because he's a pedophile?

Right okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, figure it out. So this week, so we did it.

This week's what would Mister Peg Do our weekly segment where we give you guys some more information about what we talked about in today's episode or a resource or something that can help shine a little bit more of a light. And this week our organization is called Recovering from Religion. It is Recovering from Religion dot org.

Uh.

It is an organization that helps people who have questioned, doubted, or changed their beliefs. They connect people with resources, community, and help through peer support and professional support. They do have a peer support hotline which is one eight for I doubt it, I do ou it? And they have you know, a secular therapy project with gets you connected to a therapist who offers non religious, science based treatment and I just thought it was a cool organization, so

Thanks for sharing, Kara, and next week we will be doing a learning curve. That's season thirteen, episode twenty one, so watch along with us before or after on Hulu peacock or a v VIP VPN.

Yeah, get a VPN VPN. Thank you so much. Bye. That's messed up as an Exactly Right Production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod.

And follow us personally at Kara Clink and at Glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kramm.

And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot com slash ads.

Done Done