Pathological w/ Erin Wilhelmi

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories done done.

Hello, Hello, Hello, this is Liza Traeger. And this that's messed up. I did it in the wrong order. But hello, and that's Kara. Wait, this is how we're going to open it. Hey, Okay, we don't have to be perfect. We don't have to be perfect.

I think it's funny.

I think it was funny. You laughed, I like a real laugh. Yes, you guys know what this is. It's a Law and Order resview podcast. We talk about an episode on the show. We talk about the true crime it's based on. We interview a fabulous guest that was involved in the episode, and we chat and catch up.

Yeah. Hello. Last week was our one year anniversary.

Thank you guys so much for all of your beautiful comments and words about wishing us a happy anniversary. And a lot of you are our day one listeners. But even if you're not, we love you all.

And to be honest, I don't think I've ever bought expensive champagne before.

Oh yeah, Lisa bought some champagne. Last night we went live to celebrate the one year.

But I also brought McDonald's and Kara's husband Jared did say that it's something he really respects about me, that I that I like your McDonald's game is said, lack of shame of McDonald He's like your support of McDonald's, like I'm the ironic support of McDonald's is one of my favorite parts about you. So, yeah, like our child owns many Happy Meals toys because Lisa gives them. Yeah, you can buy Happy Meal toys just you don't need to have the whole meal.

But obviously it's also like.

If you want something delicious and greasy but you don't want to eat too much, a Happy Meal is the perfect kind of vibe. But you could just buy the toys. So if you know someone you know loves the thing, they're cheap and easy.

It's fun.

I gotta say, like, if I was gonna go back to meat, McDonald's cheeseburgers might be my first thing that might actually cause my intestines to explode, like just after fourteen years to shock them with that.

But I loved McDonald's cheeseburger so much.

Really no, because I was telling you I was craving like my high school cafetes hei at cheeseburger, Like that's what I badly want.

What McDonald's was fulfilling.

It's like the most consistently not real or something like I just want that, like cheese melt and all, like the fake cheese melts I don't know, or like cheeseburgers at the pool, you know, like the pool concession.

I didn't eat that much food in my high school cafeteria, but the bagels were some of the best bagels I've ever had in my life. Same like fluffy, delicious hot bagels that they would make in the high school cafeteria. I would, you know, we would just rip pieces of it off and like dip it into a little thing

I'm with you, and I wonder if it was like a company that was outsourcing all these high schools, like the fact that you in Connecticut. Me and skochye years apart, both remember our high school bagels very yes.

Yeah.

And also some New Canaan listeners. So a lot of people have tried to figure out where my hometown is. I'm not being secret of It's New Canaan, Connecticut. And if you went to New Canaan High School, please let me know because you're probably younger than me if they're still rocking those delicious bagels, because some of you have

He's got to do lunches, you know what I mean. Yeah, Hallway the base for lunches.

I just want to also give a shout out to my high school. They had great cookies. I would get like the eminem cookies and they were so gooey. I mean, should we can you just go to the high school cafeteria, Like, can I come do a visit and be like, hey, I used to come here.

I just want to like scoop my.

God, like I'm gonna be I'm gonna be near my hometown for Christmas break, Like could I just go in and be like one bagel?

Please? We're verified on Twitter.

Maybe we could call the principal and be like, listen, we would love while.

I'm here, why are you not doing an outstanding alumni profile on me?

Like, let's do it. Come on, I know.

All I work hard for is for my dad to compliment me, and my high school theater teacher to acknowledge me.

And what's your high school theater teachers name? Should we shout that to see if somebody can get get in touch with them.

Timothy Ortman one of the best.

I mean he went to or of the Year while I was there, but we like that his program won the Kennedy Center Honors for best Like he brought a production.

Of Hamlet to the fringe with a lot of my.

Peers, like he really there was gay kissing in plays. We did a kabuki Iago's plot. We did ekwis a boy in underwear on a horse. I mean, we really went there.

I cannot believe that. Yeah, and we did you know, stage craft.

We had a costume shop, like I really I felt very lucky to have mister Ortman in my life.

But can he just please send me an email? Like my school did like into the Woods, but I don't think I ever even I wasn't in it.

We did like six or seven shows a year. Yeah that's wild, it's nuts. Yeah wow, because our sports weren't good, but our theater department was winning the awards.

See, our sports were good, so I don't think any theater wasn't as hot. But we did have a turf lacrosse field, very important term turf lacross.

We had a oh that was college. Do we have glass blowing though? That was college? Okay, in high school jesus. But I did take sports marketing in high school, which seems not.

It's like a very advanced class. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know why I was in it, but happy to be there, happy to be in sports market Why did I major in sports in music management for one semester?

I'm tone deaf? Oh my, yeah, but still, what you were you going to manage a musical artist? Were you gonna be like, Yeah, I went to Columbia College, Carnibe.

I gotta sign with me, Lisa Treeger, I've got all the connects. You're gonna go platinum, baby, That's what I thought it was gonna do for one semester.

I like, how I'm doing an invitation of you in high school or in college with a cigar in your mouth as a music executive.

Wait, so we also are two bad Jews that barely acknowledged Hankah, but happy belated Hankah to all of our chosen listeners. Lisa uh forced me to get a menora, which was the best thing she could have done. I felt stupid that I didn't have one, and I was like, my kids are too young. Maybe next year, when she understands a little bit more, I'll explain, you know, the plight of the maccabees.

But like, we just.

Lit the menora a couple nights and I gave her a present and she loved it, and she keeps being like my Hanica President and she went to school and she's like, there are nine candles in the menora. Like she's very enthralled with the holidays. So I'm happy we did it.

Wait, you said that Rosie got into the car and said I'm disappointed or what did she say?

Yesterday in the car we were leaving one of her friend's houses and she said, can I go back to her house? I was like, no, it's six thirty at night, we need to go home. And she goes, that's so disappointing.

She's gonna be a nightmare.

I mean like she's just already like so emotional and like has so many words to say what she wants.

Yeah, but it's good she has words.

It's better than apying child with emotions that they can't check.

No, she's very, very communicative.

Oh and did I tell you on this podcast yet that she had a good parent teacher conference too?

Not on the pod, just personally let the listeners know because we were worried.

I was really happy because listen, I don't know how many parents there are. But I did get a pre parent teacher conference call, which I don't think you want to get. Like, I got like a one that was like, just don't want anyone to be surprised at parent teacher conferences. Wanted to give you some feedback about Rosie. And I was like okay, and you know, they were just telling

She's two and a half.

So then at the parent teacher conference, Raves raves, it was great. It was like they got it out the month earlier and then they they were raving about her at the at the regular.

Oh my god, well I havena but we watched but Elementary last week. A friend Janelle James is in it and it so today Janelle posted like a bad review and it was someone on Twitter going, how dare you make Principles look bad to Prince. You're saying that principal steal money. This is discussed, ABC needs to do better, and it's like it's just one principal, she's just playing any like he took it personally. He's like, shame on you for treating Principles this poorly.

I mean, nobody wants to watch a documentary about the day to day of an elementary school.

Sir, I'm sorry.

It's it's a comedy show about an elementary school, and I think the idea of an elementary school principal being like vapid and super self absorbed is very funny.

Like she's a very funny character.

Yeah, it's it's because I watched the movie The Assistant on a plane and it is a slow stained paint.

I don't know the saying, but.

Wait with Julia Garner from Ozark. Yeah, we've talked about on the pod before you. I know you want to watch it. It's on Delta flights.

Maybe.

I started watching it on my Delta flight and then the sound cut out and then the whole movie paused, and I was like, what, Delta has been fucking me with the multimedia over and over again every flight.

No, And I feel bad.

We got our friend hooked on Delta and now her parents have to take two flights in from Chicago because she's too far in with the points. And I'm like, well, yeah, she went from zero to hero.

I mean she had like no status and now she's like quadruple platinum or whatever they call No.

One of my good aspects of my personality is I am pretty like happy and chill for people. But I was living when she told me she got diamond. I go, are you fucking kidding me? Surpassed me in less than a year. I've been trying to get these miles forever. But anyways, I had a great honkkah. There were two dogs at the party, one named Potato, one named Mabel.

Can you ask for anything more? Oh my god, Mabel. Mabel was the dog of our friend naomiic Peagan.

Podcast hosts actor, writer extraordin comedian extraordinary on that dog is really freaking cute.

And Hato is a fourteen and a half year old Chihuahua and so he's on CBD. He's you know, elderly, but it is well. Also, listeners, I want to thank the wife of Josh's friend. I mentioned Taco Bell and I am getting sent Taco Bell money. So all of you listeners are incredible.

I think it's like, if you have any connection to Taco Bell and you talk to Lisa Trigger about Taco Bell for two minutes, there's a passion there that you can't ignore. And so who else are you giving Taco Bell money too, to be honest.

But and that the gossip where one woman heard it and was like, wait, I know this person, and like you know that's we all have to remember.

Just one little act of kindness will help us.

Because I'll take carea to Taco Bell because we got to try the refried breath.

Oh yes, we talked about this ad nauseum on our live last night. But I do have a lot of you have sent me amazing suggestions for my vegetarian like a cheesy Gordida crunch with refri beans, all different kinds of things you can.

Do that are meatless, and I appreciate it. Yeah, we'll do a stoned feast when you're back. But I wanted to say I am at my friend's house. I was the last person on everyone left. I had nowhere to be, so I stayed for a while. But they seemed to be okay with it. But I was given ice cream. But it was just one little circle scoop and it's like I learned about portion control at thirty four years old, Like I would never just do one scoop of ice cream and a little cute little glass cup with a

You know what I like for that?

Actually, if you're ever at Trader Joe's, those little hold the cones, Yeah, those are the best. It's like, that's all the ice cream you need. You think you want more, but just that little cone.

I've never just done one little bit of ice cream and I'm like, oh, but this is delicious, Like I don't.

I've never done like less than half a pint, you know, like I'm doing two big scoops.

Yeah, it was like a cool huh on a miracle.

That one tiny scoop lasted eight hours?

And I watched Organized Crime while I ate it. And but I've been I've been on a tear. I've probably went through like nine seasons in the past week. I just I've been fully SVU twenty four to seven. I fall asleep to it, I wake up it's a few episodes ahead, and I'm just on it. So I've been watching Young Maloney NonStop, and then it was jarring to see an old Maloney. Yeah, but how did he get so beefy so much later in life? Like why wasn't he this beefy the whole time?

I think that, like maybe the whole time that he since he left SVU, he's just been beefing.

I don't really know. He was not as large as he is now.

Like, first of all, the pilot was on this morning on USA, and I was watching the pilot season one episode one Young Boy, just a young young boyson is like barfing from a case in this episode, she's like on the side and then literally Stabler says to her, there's no crying in baseball.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, has he cried? Anyways?

Also, I posted about this, but Hannah Dickinson is a comedian, great person in New York, and she did Ryan Sickler's podcast The Honeydew, and the point of the podcast it's like the honeydew is the worst part of a fruit bowl. So people come on and kind of talk about the worst parts of their life. And she talks about being assaulted by a fake uber driver and being kidnapped woke up in his home and it's like a really fucked up story.

Uh, but the like still makes jokes.

I don't know, It's just I think if you are ready and wanting to listen to that.

That is something maybe I could recommend.

Yeah, we'll repost it today in our stories so you can find it.

Yeah, you obviously have to be in a mood for it, and people are being nice, but she did post that the YouTube comments, people are already like, this isn't real, fake story that you're lying, and it's like, I don't get that. I don't get how you do that from home, Like why would she lie? What are you talking about?

No?

I mean, people are so fucking annoying.

Like, also, you know that tweet I did about Rosie saying life is down the drain or whatever, it kind of went viral. A bunch of people wrote, this didn't happen, are you kid? I didn't invent this fucking story about my toddler saying something crazy.

Like people love to say fake stories.

I know, but that's the thing online people like say their kids say things and they don't know Rosie is highly verbal, because I think parents do lie.

And then there's hack jokes.

Have you not seen the fake ones where it's like and then my child said, and it's clearly something that kid would make. It's like kind of an online joke, right, Oh, okay, I.

Thought it was just people always think that they know when the story is fake and is real on the internet. Sorry to compare me, it's obviously not the same situation. Her situation is the patriarchy, being like this didn't happen.

Speaking of let's start, let's start, you know, could we could babble all day?

We gotta start speaking of Okay, let's start. Wow, Lisa, that's the most restrained. Oh, I also have a fun life.

Hat.

Okay, if you need a clean and there's a pile of clothes and you don't want to clean right now, you could put it in the suitcase.

Because I had Kara.

And our friend Lovely gave me the woman that cleans their home to help me keep my you know, small apartment clean because it ruins my life and I'm phil I'm a clutterbug. But I just had a pile of clothes and I just didn't want to do it, and I was like, oh yeah, I could put them in a suitcase. I don't have to clean shit. And it felt really good. So if that helps anybody, or.

Just fold your damn clothes.

But it was late, like I'll do it now, But I just I just was like I can't like yesterday. I came home last night and I had to put sheets on my bed. That's not fine.

Oh god, I hate that. We talked about that. I was dreading that for you, and everyone is sad for you.

Like as I was leaving the comedy store, I was like, I gotta put sheets on the bed.

And the reaction of people is everyone's like God's speed. Yeah, I one new.

All right, let's start, let's start. We were going on forever. We've got a good one for you guys today.

Pathological all right, Season nineteen, episode ten. So it's newer, so not as many watches for me, so it is kind of exciting to watch the newer ones sometimes, Sames, you know, I haven't watched this eight hundred times, but I will, you know, talk to me in a year. This is a really good one, and when it was a sign, I didn't even remember it. So it's nice to have a surprise. And we open with Olivia sleeping, so we know something bad is.

Around the corner. We do not let her relax.

She's having nightmares about brook Shield's grandma, you know, Sheila. So this is right after Sheila tried to steal Noah from Benson and they fight and there's god, I mean fuck, So she's having flashbacks and a lot of nightmares from the abuse from this, like brookshield grandma.

It's so funny because her and brook Shields are like good friends in real life and I see them on Instagram together all the time, and it's like, weird, Shila Benson real life friendship.

Well, it's also weird that she was like, that's shady, Marishka. I'm sorry, this is the first bed thing we'll say about Marishka. But she's like, hey, best friend, come play my grandma a grandma shade, Oh yeah, a grandma. And this is also a perfect episode to piss off Karras and she hates Noah and thinks everything's his fault.

Honestly, he's still okay, he's a little bit cute here still, but it's also he's like Malrea's grandma.

Sheila, and it's like she tried to fucking kill your mom and kidnap you.

Yeah, but she's not telling him. So Noah wants like to sleep in her bed and Benson's like, can I just get a break, And then she's like fine, fine, one more night, but you gotta put your foot down.

You don't want to be sleeping.

And you know there's a comedian I won't name his name in New York that he slept with his parents until he was twelve years old. He refused to not sleep with them. And then guess what, he has a younger sister, twelve years younger than him.

Oh my god. So they just like never fucked.

I think this for twelve years and then finally fucked and had another child's.

Maybe my god, I can't find out who this is off.

Yeah, and so they go, Oh and Noah has a really cool robot painting in his room. So I really like that Olivia is sprucing up the bedroom.

It's cute. You always recognize the decora. I like, never see that stuff. Listen, I'm a yeah.

I like you've got an eye for designs. No, mostly for spending money on framed pieces of work. So we're gone from Olivia's apartment and now we cut to a school and it seems like a progressive learning style place because it's just one giant table and students sitting around it in a circle. So it's not a traditional looking classroom. So Stabler might not know about the details of this college. It is not Catholic. It's not a college either, it's a school.

Okay.

So we see this blonde girl, Maryelle, and then this is when I was like, oh, I know this episode.

So I was like, wait, what is this? What is this? See her face? I know exactly where we are.

So mary Al's blonde, she has a headband, she's wearing horizontal stripes. And then the boy next to her has a thing for her. Clearly he's hot for Maryelle and he's also wearing horizontal stripes. So I see wardrobe department, all right. So they break out a smaller work groups and the crush boy and blonde girl they're working together and they have like a fun little vibe, and we find out that she's on a new medication and that makes her sleepy, but she thinks she'll be fine, but

Gap, so what are we gonna do? Nineteen fifteen?

And this actually happened when I was working at fat Camp because we had a group of older women, like up to twenty five, and then there's all these boys and everyone's fucking and it was like we had to make sure the older and younger people weren't fucking.

WHOA, So that's gap, criminal age gap? That's real? Okay?

Is that merch or is that weird? Okay? So, you know, should we find out they're fine. They were found in the supply closet, and no one really knows what's going on, but this school has mandatory reporting. So they talked to the hip, young, cool teacher, Vanessa Banks, and she's like, I don't know how they slipped away. They were both very upset, and the parents are on the way, but they don't really want legal stuff for the school and

Yeah, because this is a special education classroom, yes.

Yes, yeah, okay, I thought maybe it was like a school designed for like a whole special needs school.

Oh, it could be. It could be a full special needs school. I don't know, or class for sure. The classroom that we've seen is y. Yeah.

So Rolin goes to talk to our girl, Maryelle, and she's like, oh, no, am I in trouble. And then this mom runs in crazed lunatic. Okay, this mom's like, oh no, you called the police.

What happened? What happened?

And so she tells her mom in front of Rollin's that Cody raped her.

Credits.

The mom looks to me in a weird way, like Heather from New Real Housewives of New York.

Oh interesting, Yes they're familiar. Yeah, she did look familiar. I amdbeat her. She's been working. She has over one hundred credits, but nothing that hit my heart that I would mention. But she's working, she's making her dreams come true,

I like it. I just showed it to Rosie recently. I love it so much. Did she like it? Yeah? She did. We watched it twice.

That makes me so happy. I do want to be there for some first time viewings with her. Maybe I can do a bug's life. Maybe that'll be me.

Oh yeah.

The dad is like, listen, these are kids are being kids, like they don't know what sex is. And then Cody's like, the hell I don't. He goes, that's what he's like. You put your penis inside the girl and it means you're in love. And so everyone's like okay. Andchriasy does look hot. He has a nice expensive looking like camel colored peak like trench.

He does look sexual in this. I like it.

He's like listen, I don't know what to say, and he tries to leave for a break and his brain is kind of broken. He's just kind of confused how to handle this because this is like so many layers of what is happening. It's like a grown man whose favorite movie is Little Mermaid thinking she's a murder. There's just like a lot of stuff ring. So the dad is like, this isn't a crime. What the fuck? Like what you know, oh, did her mother make a complaint?

This girl's fifteen. It's up to us.

And so the dad's a little shocked and bewildered and he's kind of worried.

For his kid, obviously.

So we're back to the girls room and she's telling a man that he helps her out of her chair and she can walk, but it is hard for her. And the mom is in the back playing with her hands and she's just so stressed out. And mary All continues and says, she took her sweater off and I was distracted. Amanda's hair looks perfect, and so basically he took her pants off. And then Amanda's like, you said rape? Did you do something you didn't want to And she's

Did you have a crush on the nail?

Girl?

Like, what's going on? So she said she heard an aid talking about it once and that's how she learned about it. And she's like, I liked it and we were like real grown ups. So it is consensual, but it can't even be consensual because she is fifteen. The mom is telling Amanda, listen, I got to get her home. She has anxiety issues and and it's like she looks chill as fuck, Like she doesn't look stressed at all. You seem stressed and you're projecting unto your child. So

Go shut up.

So we cut to our boys, Careese and Finn gossiping about the case. On the other side of the mirror is Cody and Daddy Cody. So they discussed calling Olivia, but they decide to leave Olivia alone.

She you know, let Olivia chill.

So we get that Olivia is on leave after the Brookshields incident and that it was really like traumatizing for her. So the plan becomes take his statement, let's see rape kit results, and then Barba can let us know if there's a crime or not.

Great plan. Great plan, guys.

So now we go to Mercy Hospital on December twenty first, So we are a few days away from Christmas, and I saw no decorations.

That's always something that cannoccupy you. Now, you guys have got to be decorating for the holidays.

Lisa is going.

To notice December twenty first is too close. Yeah, that's extremely clear. They would have been on winter break. They wouldn't have even been in school, to be honest. So the pediatrician comes who the mom wants, and talks to the mom, and Amanda is looking at them like really suspicious, like a hawk and soaking up all this strange behavior, and the mom is flipping out, and then they decide to give her a sedative, but she looks chill like,

I'm sad, you know.

And Amanda's like, what's the problem, and the mom again mentions muscular dystrophe at age four, then wheelchair and then epilepsy and blood cancer twice terrible. She then gives the line about God not giving you more than.

You can handle. Blah blah. Clearly did not love that.

Line cuts to Benson and Noah, and then they're playing cards again.

Kara, how do you feel about this? I want Noah to lose, And.

Of course she's interrupted by a vibrating phone and it is Amanda, and Noah was like, I said, no work, mommy, and it's like, bitch, she's saving lives.

Okay, you can play goldfish in a second.

So Amanda's calling, but Amanda's actually right outside of Benson's apartment door wanting to chat, and it's like, how'd you get in the building. I know there's a door, guy, what buzzer? Why are you calling? If you could just knock on the door, And this doesn't make sense.

When she said I'll meet you right now, I truly thought when she opened the door, it was gonna be lucy and she was gonna be like peace Noah never finishing this game, Like I really thought it was gonna be lucy and she was about to bounce.

And I'm like loving Benson's update, like she just looks so perfect. I'm like really feeling a lot of positive vibes for this episode. So and I'm really curious to hear about the real case because I feel like it's a famous one, but I don't know much about it. So Amanda gets Melinda Warner to do a talk screen, so we find out that she asked Melinda on the sly like can you just check what's going on here? So now Ice and Rollins are with Melinda Warner and

But something is going on.

So Chriesine and Amanda go to visit the mom, who is showing them a video of her daughter like being able to go to Disneyland. It looks like a Make a Wish type style situation. They let her know that they are not going to press any charges on Cody, and mom says, you know, that's probably for the best. But then Maryelle wheels into the room like, hey, can I go to school? I want to go to school, And the mom's like, you're not going to school. You're

Go to your room.

So the mom explains to Rollin's like, oh, she's just having a reaction to the ketemine and it's like, yeah, a horse tranquilizer.

She's fifteen. What do you a ketamine drip?

I mean, how would it be xanacs or something. It's so weird, but yeah, go on, Oh we're sure we're going to get a million nurses being like ketamine's normal, but like it just sounds really extreme.

Rollin's is like, we have more to talk about, Like, you know Maryelle's medic I hate that name, Maryelle.

It doesn't roll off the tongue.

Rollins comes back from Melinda Warner to talk to the mom and she goes, hey, like, why are you giving all these medications like they don't mix, They're actually causing more problems, Like can you explain to me why you're mixing and matching? And she goes, well, yeah, I do my own research online. I try to find hippie dippy and alternative medicines. You know, I'm trying to do anything that I can to help. You know, her dad left

She goes.

When a parent comes in and tells you their child's medical history, you just believe them. But they're probing the doctor for more information. It's like, come on, you know, you know.

She can't tell you.

It's hippa bitch, so you know she's not spilling the hip a secret. I'm hearing that in Britney Spears's voice, like.

It's hip a bitch. I did that on purpose.

The doctor thanks them for bringing this to her attention, and she's gonna make some calls and figure some stuff out. So I think the doctor's good because they're a part of me. Was like, what if the doctor's in cahoots with the mom and they're both kind of psychopaths.

So I'm glad that, Like the Doc's like, I'm gonna look into all this.

So they know they can't get info from the mom, so they decide like, maybe we can find the father and Chriesy's like, should we ask for permission? And Rollins goes, no, you fucking dork. Do you want to try to fuck me? Why don't you act cool? So they go to meet the dad and he's like, I'm not a bad father, okay, and then it's like, but you did ditch your sick kid, but he's like, I send money every month and it's

Is leukemia? Blood cancer?

Oh?

Yeah, it's white blood cells. Wow, okay, I learned that from the Charlie Brown. Did you ever watch this in school?

What?

Every year we had to watch a Charlie Brown where his girlfriend gets leukemia? No, and then she loses her hair and then at the end he pushes her on her swing and she takes her hat off and her hair's grown back. No, yeah, we watched this Charlie Brown cancer thing. Every year Devonshire, what's up, dolphins?

Okay?

And they're like, did you save any old records? Like, hey, you know as the dad, and he has some. So that's really good. So we're gonna find some of the older doctors and start putting this medical history together.

So we're grateful that they found this father.

So Ice, who's in charge of SVU, while Benson's away, is like, hey, so what is this diagnosi? It's like, what's going on? And this is an episode where this is Amanda's case, Like Amanda is very passionate about this, and so she says Munchausen's by proxy, and Finn, it's like the mulaney joke in my head where he's like, Munchausen's by proxy? What's that? It's season nineteen. It's season nineteen, Finn. This isn't even the first episode where there's been Munchhausen's by proxy, right, you.

Know there's actually been Munchausens and Munchauses by proxy on this show.

Well, because Munchhausen's one of my favorite when the guy pushes her in the wheelchair and yeah, the pool Rebecca de Mornay, baby, I love that episode so much.

I don't think it's based on a crime. I want to do it so bad, but I don't think it's based on anything.

Yeah, maybe we'll do it. I want force it. Maybe we'll force it to be based on something. Yeah.

Amanda explains what Munchausen's by proxy is and if some of you are like iced tea slash Fin and they you don't know what it is. It's basically when a parent makes up issues in their kids for attention. And Amanda is positive she is looking at this and so then we get all the scoop from all the records and there's been like dozens of doctors through six different states, fifty medications and surgeries and so many diagnoses, so this

What's up?

She goes, if you have a sick kid, you keep on pushing. You don't tell you, don't let one doctor tell you it's okay, Like you have to find and it is a good point, you know, would be d Wong, host of that show Something is killing Me, and it is about something being wrong with people and no doctors being able to see it. So I understand that mentality of like fuck this doctor, but twenty tests.

You know, because I used to do this.

I would go to my gynecologist over and I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before, and I kept saying I have problems, and she slowly was trying to be like, your problems are in your head and you need to leave me alone. She's like, I can't. You can't come you can't come back here. So Benson is a little bit like okay, Like I think she realizes I have to go like this is I need to speed this up, like this is not going to get it and I just really have to confront her. So

Yeah, so scary.

So now it's like shit, shit, shit, you know this miner is having a seizure. What's gonna happen? Who started a seizure? Like, we can't deny that there's a problem. Yeah, So then Benson is taking a little nap at the hospital. Where at the hospital you can you know, they call a bus.

Okay, So.

Benson's like napping in the hospital waiting room having nightmares about Grandma Sheila again, and Melinda get her some ketamine. So then Melinda wakes her up and asks what's up and lets Olivia know that baby girl mary Ala is recovering and basically she had so many supplements inside of her and that that's what caused the seizure and she does not have MD or a seizure disorder wild So then it's like, did the mom purposely research what would give her seizures or was she just giving her all

I could have.

I could have fucked with her feeding tubes and made her overdose. And the doctor, the therapist is like, well, did you ever think about that, because that's like you're telling on yourself.

Yeah, Like, as someone.

Who would not do that, I would never that would not I wouldn't be like, I could fuck with her feeding tube if I wanted to be, Like, wait, what what.

Are you saying?

So she reveals that her stepfather would hurt her, and the therapist does seem famous to me?

Like I know her.

Yeah, her name is Carolyn McCormick. She was in sixty six episodes of Law and Order Original recipe. She's been in six episodes of this one and a sprinkling in seasons one and two. Then she did one in season fourteen, and now she's in two episodes this season of season nineteen. Wow, not a criminal intent to trial by jury, like she's all over the franchise, but Law and Order, you guys all know.

Her from Law and Order Original recipe, damn. And she's always doctor e Levett or no, yeah, she's always doctor Elizabeth Alive.

And so Barbara and Careesy are like chatting, said Barbara, Well, okay, so they're chatting and they're listening to what's happening with the therapist, and they're like, fuck, she could get off on a psych defense and Barbara is like, who cares, Like I don't care about that. We just have to make sure she never gets custody of her daughter. Again like jail or no jail. Our goal is to get

We cut to them.

Letting Mary all know what's been happening, and she obviously is not happy with the news. She's like, I haven't been sick this whole time, and they're like, no, you're actually fine and you're gonna be healthy and you're gonna walk and you're gonna do everything.

It might take a little bit, but you'll be good.

And I know it's hard to believe your mom made you sick and gave you meds to make you sick, but that's what happened. And she asks why, and it's like, yeah, that's a great question. We don't know what to tell you. No, Rollin says there's something wrong with her brain and she didn't know how to take care of you. And Mary Alle's like, but she loves me, and we're like we know, we know she's just fucked in her head. Okay, but that would be horrific. I can't imagine finding that out.

But I was like, yeah, I never trusted that elephant. What did he do?

And I just I liked it. So they're chatting like do we do jail or mental health facility? Like what's gonna happen? And then they talk about Sheila Porter again for a little bit and Noah Benson cries, it's too tears up, tears up, not cries, and then her phone rings, not good news, and it's Finn and Don.

This is awful. I hate this scene.

So Don just showed up at Mercy Hospital and is trying to rip an IV outside out of Maryelle's arm and she's crying and the dad is like, fuck you bitch, and she yells I love you and she's screaming, and the Maryelle goes, you love making me sick, and you took my life away from me and you almost killed me.

And she's like, they're lying, they're lying. I'm the only one who knows how to take care of you.

Roll of a lifetime, you know, screaming and crying, being taken away by tons of people.

It's so good.

And mary Elle's like, I just want to be normal, sweet girl, but you never will, Okay. So Rollin's is like super moved by the case, and Don made bail and she's out again and she has and she got out because there's like supporters on her gofund me that are bailing her out. And I don't know if there are other munch houses by proxy people, or there are people that have just been, you know, following Maryelle's sickness.

I think that's probably what it is.

Yeah, but why would you you would want to keep the mom in not help her get out? Rollin said what she did is unforgivable, but she is sick and it's weird to punish her. And Creasey's like, why don't you just go home and be with your daughter? Okay, so that's nice. Oh and then he gives her a little speech and I don't love it, but he's like, Okay, you're a cop and you're a single mom. Just admit

What if? That was the end? Okay?

And she said it felt so good and energetic, and I feel alive and I saw colors in my whole life and I thought I was stupid, but my own mother did this to me.

And Barbara's like, wait, what the fuck happened?

And she's kind of like now becoming a sassy teenager, Like they're like, you know, the meds are disappearing, and she's feeling she's just like a bitchy teen and I love to see it. And she was just like, oh, what happened after my mom came to the hospital and tried to kill me?

And that is what happened.

I mean, what would you do if your mom broke a protective order and started pulling tubes out of your arms?

I mean, I fucking twisted.

And basically, it's like she was she was scared because it's like the mom could always come back, she was always in danger. She's always gonna feel scared, like she's never gonna leave me alone, and so she grabbed a hammer and beat the shit out of her mom, Like she doesn't understand that her mom is also sick, but she doesn't have to. I mean, she's a teen who's been abused for her whole life.

So yeah, it's like.

We're asking a lot out of her, and maybe they should have had more protective services for her.

Or something.

So Maryelle says, like, you know, she had to go talk to her and confront her and be like, you need to leave me alone and live my life. But obviously the mom's not going to take it great and kept trying to hug her and she's like, I don't want to hug you. And then the mom went to go get pills to like chill her out, and she's like, I don't need pills. I need you to leave me alone. And the mom's like, you're my daughter forever, you will

So now we're at court.

Melinda's on the stand and she said the cause of death is blunt force trauma from the back of the head, which is not good for self defense. And then our girl from intimidation game, Mousam Macar in the building.

Yeah, so she's.

The defense attorney and it was really awesome to see her. But yeah, so she so she hit her mom three times, and the way they know that I was from blood splatter, Hello Dexter. And so every time the hammer was hit, the blood pushback would go on the wall. And there's three of those. And Melinda has straight hair here if you were wondering. So then the defense our girl, Mousam,

But she, you know, is doing a really good job.

And it's one of my favorite judges and a sexy, sexy updo love her with like light red hair. Barbara Caresi and Rollins do a walk and talk that looks fun as hell through the hallways. I would love to be able to shoot a walk and talk scene in that marble court hallway.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

And they're going over the details in the case, and you know, Barbara is a good guy and he's like, fuck, like what am I doing? Like I'm trying to put this teenager away? Like I don't what's going on. And so then they get more evidence and we find out that she watched The Little Mermaids seven times in three days, and that's Cody's favorite movie.

So mary Elle is.

Now on the stand and talking about how she just wanted to be normal and her life sucked, and now she's getting healthier and stronger and has hope, and she's wearing a black sexy lace top that Alex's cabot would have definitely called her a slut and put a.

Coat on her.

She said she intended to just tell her to leave me alone and stay away from me, but she just realized that would never happen.

And the jury of course.

Feels sorry for her and like does want to put her in jail obviously, right, but she just felt that she had nothing to do and she had to be free, and so she swung the hammer. Now you know, Barbara has a plan with this fucking little Mermaid stuff, and I'm like, leave her alone, but he brings up what you do in the two hours? She said, they want,

I don't care. I want to be on a jury. I don't think you would have been chosen. But yeah, wow, that was so rude of you in this case. I think it would have been very hard for you to hide your disdain.

I don't think we could ever actually be on a jury again, because we research all this shit so much. Yeah,

So what are you gonna do? And he just doesn't fucking know.

So now January eighth, we're headed back to court and Barba's in an elevator talking really loudly on the phone about how she could get life in prison, and the woman in the elevator's like, wait, she could get life, and then it's like, uh oh, so basically there were jurors in the elevator and did he do this on purpose?

And he did? I think he did.

His face looks really shocked, when he realizes that they're in the elevator with him.

I didn't get the vibe that he did it on purpose. I did.

I think he did it on purpose. We'll put a pole up. We'll put a pole up. Okay, So he goes, fuck you guys are the jurors?

What are we going to do?

So then the jurors and the judge they all go talk to each other and she's like, I don't how did this happen? So now we're like in the courtroom having a little thing with Judge Barba and these jurors. There's three jurors that hurt him, and the three jurors are talking that she can get life, and so the judge has to declare a mistrial. She was left with no choice, and then Barba is like, hey, can we actually move this to family court? And she says, if this was your plan and I find out about this,

Like Chambers and Chambers.

So Benson and Barbara talk and she's like, listen, I have absolute faith in your humanity and I really like that saying or how she said it, I don't know. So family Court gave Mariyella three year sentence that was suspended to probation and community service and mental health evaluations. So justice was served, Benson says, and I do believe that, And he says, I hope so, but I believe justice was served. I do not think she deserves to go

And Rollins is.

Like, get it, get your whole life, girl, And then she goes, do you think it's wrong that I missed my mother? And Rollin says, no, I don't take care of yourself. So then Careesi asks to go to for coffee with Rollins and she's like, I'm gonna go hang out with my baby. So she's like feeding Jesse, playing fun basketball games with the spoon, and her child has really long hair. For how tiny the child is, Like, how did this two.

Year old have hair down her back? Sometimes you see kids like that though it's kind of wild. I mean, look at like our friend's daughter for instance, she has very long hair. But also this Jesse is played by twins. I've seen them on Instagram.

Oh cute, and so Rollins has a lot of feelings. So she calls her mom her mom is being a bitch, but she gets past that moment in the beginning of the call. Great facial acting by Amanda. That's the end of the episode. And I'd like to just say, call your mom and be happy you're not abused by her. And if you are, I'm sorry.

All right, You're in for a real treat with this crime. I'm surprised you don't know a lot about it. Stay tuned, Okay, let's get into this case. So this is the case of the murder of Dede Blanchard and the crimes she perpetrated against her daughter, Gypsy Rose Blanchard four years and I can't I won't say who, but I will say that when I worked at drag Race. One of the queens wanted to do Gypsy Rose for Snatch Game, and the show wouldn't let him do it, and I was really.

That would have been incredible. It would have been incredible.

Okay, So this is a very very famous case. It has been made into a Hulu series called The Act. It was a HBO documentary called Mommy Dead and Dearest. I saw the HBO documentary on an airplane, like when it first came out in twenty seventeen. Like, this has just been very very like reported on very widely. So I rewatched the doc and I did some other research for this. But let me take you through what happened.

They were barely a couple.

In the documentary, he's talking about how you know, when you get a girl pregnant in the South, you're taught to marry them. They had really nothing in common, and you know, their marriage did not last very long. They were separated and shortly after their separation, on July twenty seventh,

Is based on.

And she was a stripper who also had a controlling stage mother who lied about her daughter's age to make her seem younger and forced her to perform even when she didn't want to. So kind of crazy that they named her that when you get into the rest of

She was in a.

Wheelchair, for fourteen years, from around like age ten to age twenty four, and according to medical records, a lot like what you told us about the episode, Dede brought Gypsy to local hospitals over one hundred times between.

Two thousand and five and twenty fourteen.

Now, Dede to get into her background a little bit, not just to touch on it briefly. It's not the same situation as Dawn in the episode. She from what we know about her, which there could be stuff we don't know, of course, but from what we know about her, she was not abused, and that she was kind of considered by the rest of her family to be a map manipulator.

Like she always was manipulative.

I'll get into it a little bit as well, Like there was a there was a belief in her family that she poisoned her stepmom with her stepmom's food with round up weed killer, which developed into a chronic illness, and as soon as the period ended that she was

Way that the character in the show was.

And so Dede had worked briefly as a nurse's aide and had a talent for remembering like medical jargon. So she would just kind of walk her like she would just sort of breeze her way through these interactions with doctors and would just put up a wall of information and be like, wells this and this and this and this and this, and since everybody just everybody just took that information for fact. You know, they're like she knew so much you could throw anything at her. She had

I've been there, you know Kenny my friend are friend, Kenny my friend I don't know Kenny is from there.

I've been a spring come friends with Kenny. Yeah, I've been to Springfield, Missouri, like five times.

Well, basically the community of Springfield like welcomes with open arms. Everyone knows the story of this single mom with a severely disabled daughter forced to flee Katrina's devastation, and it's getting all this media attention, and the community is like pitching in to help them all the time. So there's gofundmes, there's all this stuff. They often stay in Ronald McDonald's

Well, I also wonder if the kid love Miranda Lambert or the mom or they all did, Like that's such an.

Interesting fixation, it is.

And Miranda Lambert's been in an episode of SVU, so that's true.

That's true.

One of the only I feel like celebrities to like not play themselves in a episode of SVU.

She plays like an actress trying audition, so odd.

Brent Blanchard the dad, he's very featured in the documentary, and he is making monthly child support payments of twelve hundred dollars and he's sending Gypsy gifts. But Dede tells other people that he's this abusive drug addict and an alcoholic who never came to term with his daughter's health issues, much like what happens in the episode where like none of that's true, and she tells people he never sends them any money, and he's like, I'm sending quite a bit.

By a bridge. This is beyond so fucked right. How do you even know?

How do you even know to make someone drool for their salavary glands to come out.

It's like, I'm sure she researched this shit on the internet, Like what are things we can do? You know?

I don't know. I don't know.

And being a nurse's age, she had some general medical knowledge. But like it's it's so upsetting. But Gypsy also had tubes in her ears to control her purported ear infections. I mean, my little brother had tubes in his ears too. But I think the point is she probably didn't have ear infections and had to get tubes put in.

Also, who knew you need to live and to keep your teeth? I didn't. Yeah, I think it was that.

Yeah, that comboed with this anti seizure medication like kind of rotted her teeth out.

I don't know.

So this doctor, Bernardo Flasterstein, who was featured in the documentary, was a pediatric neurologist in Springfield who was suspicious of the muscular dystrophe diagnosis. He ordered all these MRIs and blood tests, found no abnormalities, and he basically said, Toddie, I don't really see why she doesn't walk, and like he's like, I can see her stand and support her own weight, like she should be able to walk, And then he put in his notes in a bold underlined letters.

I'll tell you why.

But you know, Munchausen syndrome is when a person fakes their own shit, and then Munchausen by proxy is when they fake it onto someone who they are a caregiver for. Obviously usually a child, but I think it can also be old, older people. So Munchausen, if you watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, was a huge thing where people thought Yolanda had Munchausen and was making up a lot

They had never met in person.

Somehow Gypsy and go to John meet in person for the first time and go have sex in a bathroom because I guess d D's not around, And then the two of them continue their internet relationship and eventually begin hatching a plan to kill Dedie. So at this point, Gypsy knows there's fake illnesses or just the other abuse and being held captive that has got Yes, I.

Think she's starting to get older.

She's kind of like I want to have some freedom, and like every time I try to go like meet up with a guy, my mom smashes.

My computer and handcuffs me to a bed, you know what I mean.

Like, I think things are getting out like more punitive because she's getting older and probably harder to control. So and talking to guys online, she tells them their situation and they're probably like that's not okay, like we got to get you out of this or whatever. So in June of twenty fifteen, go to John returns to Springfield. He waits until Dedie goes to sleep, and he's in the Blanchard house and Gypsy allowed him in and allegedly gave him duct tape, gloves and a knife with the

Well, she obviously inherited some of her mom's manipulation tactics very much.

So I think you kind of get that idea while watching the documentary and reading about this, because so what happens is like what I read in one place was that after they kill her, they have sex in Gypsy's room and then take four thousand dollars in cash that Dide had been keeping in the house. What Gypsy says in the documentary is that Goda John had wanted to rape her mother, and she had made it a deal with him, like you can reape me and just don't rape my mom.

And so I can't tell if the sex was consensual.

She says in the documentary that it's not, but I think other people can't tell if she's lying because I'll get into more of what she talks about when she is finally brought in.

But like they flee to a.

Motel outside of Springfield, where they stayed for a few days planning their next move. They're seen on a lot of security cameras. There's home video footage of them like giggling in hotel rooms, like excited that they're gonna get you know what I mean, Like that they're gonna that they're on the road and traveling and this and that. So there's not really from what you can glean from the tapes.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of remorse from either party.

So Gypsy said that at one point she believed that they had gotten away with it. They mailed the murder weapon back to go to John's home in Wisconsin to avoid being caught with it in person, and then they took a bus to uh to Wisconsin to where go to John lived with his family. Several witnesses saw them like on their way to the Greayhound station and saw that Gypsy was wearing a blond wig and was walking without a wheelchair or any kind of cane or walker or anything.

Wow.

So what happened was at this point, no one has discovered Dede's body yet, and so people are getting suspicious because there's a few weird Facebook status updates on a Facebook account that d Dye and Gypsy share. One of the posts said that bitch is dead, and then the next one said, or a comment under that post said, I fucking slashed that fat peg and raped her sweet

A little confusing.

He initially waived his right to trial by jury, but then changed his mind, so finally, in November of twenty eighteen, he has a trial. Prosecutors contended that he had deliberated about committing this crime for over a year, so this was not like a last minute crime of passion. This was like a planned, planned, fully premeditated thing, and his lawyers pointed to his autism and said that Gypsy had formulated the crime and that the love struck boy had just done what she asked.

And he in the dock.

He's being interrogated and they're like, would you have ever done this if Gypsy hadn't like asked you And he's like, no, never, Like I never would have killed this woman if Gypsy didn't tell me too.

I just did it because I love her.

So I don't know how much manipulation, but like one thing that somebody said in the documentary was like, to live with DD your whole life. There's no way that her manipulative tactics didn't sink into you somehow, you know, Like that's how Dedie became, how she was. Her mother was a master manipulator, you know. So it's sort of like you do feel horrible for Gypsy, but you're like, I tend to believe that she had a little bit more awhaerewithal about the planning. Then she lets on the prosecutor,

Everything the information is is well and so.

She said that while she had suggested to go to John that he killed Dede to end the abuse, she had also considered getting pregnant by him in the hope that once she was carrying his child, Dedee would have to like accept him as her boyfriend and you know, husband or whatever. So, along with the knife that she eventually gave to go to John, she stole baby clothes from Walmart during a shopping trip so that she could have both plans ready, like the pregnancy plan or the

So that is pretty fucked up. I wonder if she can sue.

But they also must have known that they couldn't use life rights without them being signed away, Like Hulu's not stupid, So I don't really get what what happened. They are, apparently as a family, pissed at this woman who wrote the article, Gypsy's stepmother, Christy, stated that Dean had promised them the whole time, we're gonna split.

This fifty to fifty.

Whatever we make, we're cutting you guys in. You can put it aside for Gypsy when she gets out of jail, and like they weren't even expecting that, and then like that's what she offered, but then never made good on it. And then to wrap up this story, in twenty nineteen, it was announced that Gypsy is engaged to a guy that she's been penpallling with. Her fiance first wrote to her after watching the HBO documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest,

But I wonder what her life's gonna be like, Well, people are very obsessed.

People are very obsessed with this case.

And I think that, I mean, she'll probably write a book, she'll probably be on the talk show circuit, you know, Like, I'm sure she's going to get some attention if she wants it, and some way to make income. I don't know, but it is fucked up that she isn't getting any money from the act.

Yeah, maybe it's a prison thing and she will later or something.

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, you're not allowed to profit from your crimes, I guess, which is the thing that happened with the Ted Bundy trial.

But it's not her crime.

She didn't comit the murder, so I don't know she did come conspiracy maybe, I don't know, but she's if you're interested, Mommy dead and Darras is on HBO Max or HBO Go or now or whatever you have.

And it's really.

I was really wrapped by it when I first saw it on an airplane because Gypsy is in it. I think it's like twenty seventeen footage of her, So she's, you know, in her twenties, and she's kind of really lucid, just talking about everything that happened and everything your mom do her, and she's like kind of laughing a little bit about stuff, and it's a little it's wild, and yeah, you do wonder what's gonna happen, what her life's gonna look like outside.

But yeah, and I also was thinking that with the jail thing, where it's like, yeah, jail's better than having someone pump pills medicines hospitals. IV's in, you hit, you tie up, and maybe it's the nice in between. She might need to then be like.

Yeah, I mean you have some autonomy in jail. She's probably learning, yeah, like how to yeah, live, feed yourself.

Make your own bed, you know. Yeah.

I just wish it was a more straightforward self defense murder.

So no one had to be in jail.

But if your own parents are flushing your ashes down the toilet, it's bad.

Yeah.

They don't have a lot of kind words to say about her, her dad and her stepmom, and her mom doesn't have any.

Words to say because she may bee. So who knows? And how did the town of Springfield, Missouri.

I want to text our friend and get some scoop on and how everyone kind of handled.

I mean, I'm.

Sure, like the rest of the country, they were pretty horrified, but probably even more so because they sort of propped these people up for years, and you know, their hearts were in the right places. They thought she was a sick girl, you know, like they probably felt extra doomed.

But not mad at her, hopefully, just mad at dede. Uh No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody thought that she.

She also never went to school, because that's another thing we talk about, like the everlasting effects of abuse like this, Like she never got to go to school, so who knows, yeah, how much she knows.

Like there was something in my research.

I don't remember where I got it, but like something was like yeah, she was like I couldn't just like stand up out of my wheelchair and be like help, this is all a hoax, Like my mom is doing this because she had already established everyone that she had diminished mental capacity, that she was like, for lack of a better word, slow, that's the word Gypsy used. She's like, everybody thought I was slow, and DiDia told Gypsy, pops, think you're mentally incompetence, so don't even try to do

So I wonder if she's still pen pals with the guy spending life in prison that's the person. But he killed her, I mean he killed her. He went and stabbed her in the backs. Yeah, and oh my god.

The documentary Just Heads Up for People has very very graphic photographs of the stabbing.

It's like very very.

But also with Gypsy, it's like, do you really want to be engaged? Don't you want to play the field?

I don't know. A girl, the Little Mermaid doesn't really play the field.

She literally meets the first fucking guy that she the first man she sees, like a human man she sees. She's like, that's the guy I'm gonna fuck. I'm gonna give up my voice and get and my whole family and get that guy.

Good. All right, Well, we have an incredible guest, Kara, amazing, amazing job, and.

Let's get this party started. Let's do it.

Okay, guys, our guest today is a talented actress of the stage and screen. You've seen her in the Perks of Being a Wallflower the nick. Currently, she is performing in Aaron Sorkin's adaptation of To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, but you guys knew her this week as maryel McLaughlin. Guys, check out our chat with Aaron Willhelmy.

An incredible performance, such a good episode.

We are thrilled to be talking to you.

You know, it was exactly four years ago this week that we shot it.

Wow, oh wow, fall in New York. That was beautiful are you in New York right now? I am yes, so because are you currently on Broadway doing to Kill a Mockingbird?

I am so exciting?

Wow, fun, nice to be back.

You know, did you start the run before the pandemic and pick it back up or is this a new production?

Actually? Yeah, I started it when it opened in twenty eighteen, did it for a year, and then I had left, and then Ed Harris took over with a group, and then the pandemic hit and so now a handful of the original cast have come back and we're all doing it at least for a couple of months. So it's been really fun to be back there.

That's so great.

But let's get into your SVU. How did this part like come about?

Like did you audition? Like did you did you know the show before.

You were on it?

Tell us everything.

I had auditioned for the show several times and hadn't ever booked anything on it, and so this part came in and I think the the email said the audition description said like wear no makeup and look as sick as possible, and I was like, I might.

Be able to get this.

I can just walk in there like a miss. And then any Oh, yeah, it was like and look really young. I think they wanted some realized it was just nice to not have to prepare it all. I didn't have to put anything on my face and then walk in and.

Wow.

And so I finally got to be a part of the show, which I was so excited about. And of course this particular character too. It was fun to play.

Yeah, you got the two big New York acting stamps of approval. You have SVU and Broadway, so that's all that matters.

Someone said, you're not like an official New Yorker until you've been on SCU. So I was like, I gotta get that show.

And then while you were on set, what did hair and makeup do to make you look as sick as you did?

Look? Oh my gosh, it was a lot of bagging bags under my eyes. I looked terrible. I think they would take the color out of my lips.

Yeah, your lips are like totally like it's not even just a nude lip, it's like a full there's no color.

Right, It was pretty gross in a great job.

Yeah, we are always complimenting here and makeup and wardrobe on that show.

We love it.

How was that seizure scene that you did that was like really intense.

You had so many intense scenes.

I mean, you have a flip out of the stand, you have your mom trying to rip an IV out of your arm, and you are seizing in the precinct.

It's like what a role.

Yes, yeah, that the seizure scene. I think the camera was like on a crane and it was like kind of zooming in towards me. So I was so worried that I was gonna like seize and hit it. You know. It was fun though. I just had a blast. I think Mursco was so kind to me. That was the first day I met her was during the seizure scene, and she was very complimentary and everything. And then maybe ten minutes after meeting me, she came over and was like, I thought you were, like, you know, a kid, Like

Yeah.

Imagine she was like, I was only being nice to you because you were I thought you were a kid, right, I thought.

You were a teenager, so all those things I said take got away. Yeah.

Did you practice like seizing in the hotel or at your house like or did you.

Just come to set fresh seizure?

I watched some videos of seizures, but I don't think I really practiced. I think I just sort of let it happen. But I do remember watching videos, and then I think JOHNO, the director specifically, either he either sent a video or he told me about the way he wanted it to look.

Yeah.

Well, speaking of like doing research before your role, did you know the story of d D and Gypsy Rose like Blanchard before you saw that?

Knew this episode? Or do you know the story now?

Or like I didn't know the story? I don't think. But then they told us to watch Mommy, Dad and Dearest.

Did so you watch that doc before you shot?

Yes, actually watched it before I even auditioned. They sent a link to watch it before the audition.

So wow, so there's no way we were wrong about this one. Okay they sent the link.

Yeah, they said the link. It's based on her.

Did you draw your character from the documentary?

I mean yes and no, because they you know the what I love is that they don't well first of all, that you know, the boyfriend doesn't do the killing, which is what happens in real life. So and then also I love that they gave her a different sentence Gypsy Rose is I believe still behind bars. Yeah, and my character just got I think community service.

And yeah, three years of probation. Yeah.

So it's sort of neat that they commented on that as well, like, yeah, maybe that's an unfair sentence considering which she actually did.

We're on her side, I know, I am too.

I feel so bad for her. And then I was watching like I think a doctor Phil interview with her in it afterwards, just yeah, my heart breaks for her.

Yeah, but you know, like she'll be out in a few years and she'll still be relatively young, so hopefully, you know, it's not like a full like hopefully she'll have a chance.

To live like a normal person for a little while.

You had.

This was one of those episodes where like it's really Rollins heavy, Like Rollins takes a real interest in you. How did you like working with Kelly Giddish?

I love her and I actually went to the same undergraduate program as she did. Oh cool, So I was really excited to get to finally meet her because I've heard about her, Like when I was at school, I knew about her. She was had moved on to such success and so we could you know, bond over the

That was my follow up question actually was did you meet the dogs?

I knew Lisa was gonna ask that the good dogs? Yeah, and then are another cast member.

Our listeners love Barba and you got to sort of have a little sparring thing. We have a very horny listenership for Barbara. And I think you sing also, and he sings, did you guys do any you know? We had another guest that told us they were sort of doing a little La Miz singing off camera like when the in between takes.

I wish I would have loved to have some time singing with him, but you know, he was amazing, especially during that scene where he's questioning her and and I think I started to talk. I start to talk about little little mermaid and Ariel and and I'm I'm not a mermaid, And at one point I was like, I am I am Ariel or something. He goes and your mother's a big fat octopus. I completely broke and like and of course so did everybody in the room. It

Well, and I mentioned this scene before, but obviously the ripping of the IV was pretty wild. Did you guys practice that a lot or was it just a free for all to your arm or.

What was that?

I think the biggest thing that we practiced was we weren't sure how to say the last couple of lines. We didn't know how to deliver those. It's the lines are All I ever wanted was to be normal, and now I never will. And I think maybe we did a couple of takes where she yells it at her mother as her mom's being pulled away, and then I think the tick they used was actually more internal, which

And then your next project we saw is Gilded Age on HBO.

But you want to like fill us in on that. We're excited.

Sure, it's Jillian Fellows. It's cool. If you know Downton Abbey, it's sort of down to nabby vibe, but forty years earlier and in New York City, so it's like eighteen eighty two old money versus new money during the Gilded Age. I'm in the downstairs of the house, Okay, I'm among the servants of the household. And it was so much fun to shoot.

Where did you guys shoot that?

Newport? Rhode Island? Oh beautiful, but Newport has those big mansions.

Yes, the breakers.

Oh Swift comes to mind when I think of, Yeah, Rhode Island.

I've been very drunk a lot in Newport. But that's really really fun. I can't wait. I mean, I'm a huge down to Abbey fan, so I'm really I'm really excited. And yeah, and you were were you one of the I saw that you were in a Doll's House part too. I think I saw it like the year after you were in it. I saw LORI metcalf and It was like one of my favorite things I ever saw. I loved it so much, And that's so cool that you were in it.

That was one of my favorite experiences in the theater to this day. Like it was. That was an incredible show to be a part of.

It was such a cool show.

And then with this To Kill a mocking Bird, did you get to work with Aaron Sorkin like directly at all?

Or Yeah?

He was actually there. I mean we've workshopped the play for almost a year before we opened the previews, so he was there during all the workshops and he would come in with rewrites, we could ask questions. He really the particular testimony that I have. He worked on that scene so much and it changed dramatically from like the first time I read it to what we ended up doing on stage, and it was so fun to be a part of that and to watch his process. He is just a genius as you know.

Wow, yeah talks, Yeah, the King of walking talks. How does it feel being back on stage these last few weeks like post pandemic? Is it like the same as ever? Is it like a different vibe? How does it feel?

It? Strangely feels like we never left it, but in a good way. I mean, the audiences have been so warm and giving. I feel like they're ready to laugh, they're ready to cry. They're right there with you. Probably because we haven't we haven't seen anything in almost two years. A lot of people are like, this is my first show back, this is my first Yeah, okay, and so there's definitely a special energy happening. But I was worried that looking out to the audience and seeing masks people

I guess I didn't realize because we're comedians, and a lot of clubs because there's food and drinking, will you will let people take their masks off. But like for theater, they're probably making everybody wear masks, right they are.

Yeah. I think they do sell some drinks, so you can take it down to take a sip, but your they put it right back up and they're pretty strict about it. And I think if you don't, they get you out. So it's very right now.

No, the theater ushers are very strict. They're really on top of their shit.

They're like, we're not losing our jobs again.

Yeah.

I know.

They're like, we've been waiting to reprimand people for eighteen months.

We are back at training. But I feel like I interrupted you. What were you going to say?

Oh, I was just gonna tell you that the woman who does my wig every night and to Kill Mockingbird is huge fan of yours and told me all about how she listens to your podcast all the time, and she's Luke's really excited that I'm going to be a part of it.

Oh my gosh, what's her name? Yeah, shout her out.

Christine Hutchinson.

Christine Hutchinson, thank you for listening. We love a good wig. That's amazing.

We do love a good wig. We do.

Any last minute like little tidbits from SVU that you remember, or like any little stories that you wanted to tell before we let you go, Well.

I can just say that every time I go home now my mom makes a joke about hiding the hammers.

I love that.

I mean hear any tools.

Wow, that was great. Thank you, Aaron, We love you.

Yeah, go see her I mean, she's gonna be, I think, a next hot thing, and I'm excited for the Gilded Age.

I'm gonna watch that. You know.

I'm a downt n Abbey girl, like I loved down to Nabby So I think my and when I showed my husband, he was like, I'm in like, we're doing Gilded Age.

Wow, you're gonna you're gonna veer off your CBS thing.

Oh what you mean, evil? It's on a break.

It's on a break well because I remember taking maybe was it advertising in college. I don't know, but you learn that like the different markets and CBS markets towards rich people over forty, and you are now the perfect CBS person.

No.

CBS, though, is like old people in the middle of the country.

That's why they have like Mom and Big Bang and all that. No, like the Good Wife, all of those those are hot. Those are people that have money.

Those are people I spend money, good liquor evil. These are for people who have Oh okay, it's oh.

I didn't realize I was trying to buy you Bosh merchandise for Christmas. You don't have to do that. There's not good stuff. That's why I'm telling you and revealing it. I was on I was searching for Bosh.

For Oh my God.

To do though, is like the house Bosh lives in in the show Bosh is so fucking amazing. It overlooks the entire city of la because the premise is that he sold his life rights to a movie company or something, and that's how he can afford as a cop this fucking ridiculous glass house up on a on a cliff. I would love to go to see it one day, but we'll see it if that's possible.

Anyway, maybe we can rent it or something.

Well.

Speaking of owning, I don't know if people know this, but like the WWE owns John Cena's name, they own him. Yeah, so like they own your character and your likeness and everything. So if you don't change it or he used his real name or whatnot, so they own it. Like they make money off of him, and he's fine with it. He's like, I wouldn't have anything without them, so I don't care.

But like Daniel does, he have to ask them every time he's in a movie or something.

I think he's at a point where they're just happy making money for him, Like they're fine with anything he does.

But yeah, but like cause there's a guy.

Daniel Bryant was his name in the WWE, and now in the new League he's Brian Danielson. Oh and that's actually his real name. But like, because you can't like if they own you, they own you.

Yeah.

Interesting, right, Okay, Well let's own our post mortem and get into our are a little bit of you know.

What did I learn reviewing? They're sick? The world is sick. People are sick. Everybody's sick.

I guess it's just like, yeah, like just because someone's a mom doesn't mean they're trustworthy. You know, I will steal your wallet if you leave it on the table, you know, like I am a bad Perton.

I'm just kidding.

But well, because what do we learn? What do we every time you see a sick kid? Investigate the mother? No, I don't know, it's like what do you do?

But I would hope that doctors would be like a little bit after hearing about some of these more like high profile Munchausen's cases, that doctors that would have a little bit more of like a just a hunch or like an instinct that this lady's not a reliable narrator, This lady's not telling us the truth. You know, she's leaving out some large chunks, you know. Yeah, it's just disappointing. Don't rip an ivy out of your daughter's arm. That's not that'll be frowned upon.

Try to live a life so your parents don't flush your ashes down the toilet.

That's another.

Yeah, I think Also trying to recognize the manipulative patterns of your parents and to see if you're if you've learned those is important. You know. That's a good one, you know, And I really, I mean, I really hope. I'm excited to see what Gypsy Rose does with her life in the next two or three years when she's out.

What if she does like club dates and nightclubs pay her to go to their nightclubs. She becomes like the like Snookie, like Polly d because I.

Would want to see her.

Yeah, maybe we'll throw a party and we'll pay for her to you know, sit on a throne or something.

Yeah, Gypsy comes and we just get to like watch her live her best life.

I mean, I do feel bad for the guy, but he was probably a fool too. I also don't think she should be engaged. I said this in the episode, obviously like play the field, live your life, make some money, do a speaking tour, come clubbing with us.

Yeah, well, we'll see what happens. You know, engagements are easily made and broken.

We'll see if she goes through with that.

I do think there's a lot more people with Munchausen's than we think too, not just by proxy, but people who are like.

I'm sick, I'm sick, I'm sick, I'm sick, I'm sick.

And it's like okay, but like you know, sometimes I think it can be mental.

But there's also a difference obviously with like hypochondriac and Munchausens right, because I think it's not just thinking you're sick and complaining.

I think it's making yourself sick.

Because hypochondriacs are also talking like, oh, this might be happy, this is happening, This is happening, but they're not harming themselves.

They're just annoying. I'm a hyper.

Contract might necessarily not care about the attention that they're getting either. Where that's that's front and center for someone with munchaus since, I think is that they want the attention, so they're like oh, now I have this diagnosis. Now I have this diagnosis. It's always something new and things are popping up.

And because Julia, our friend, she called me out once and she was like, okay, well you are a hypochondriac when you're stressed out.

And I was like, damn, shots fired. Yeah, and I don't think you have munchausenes. No, I don't have money. I don't want anything wrong with me.

But I am finally making doctor's appointments with the help of Kara. Now that I'm in Cedar SINAI you knew that would get me to go to the doctor. I'm making appointments left and right. It feels so fancy of all the sweet all the celeb babies born at Cedars.

What an honor to be a part of it.

I know.

I mean when I was in my tiny rooms giving birth to my kids, I was I was like, Beyonce definitely had something better than this, but it was I could feel her spirit nearby.

You know, I wish you watched Selling Sunset.

I know. Well, that's what we've learned this week, is I wish I watched Selling Sunset.

A huge lesson.

Okay, let's get into our segment. What would Sister Peg Do? This is where every week we direct you guys towards a resource, an organization where you can donate or just find out more information about something we've touched on in today's episode. And I just wanted to point you guys towards the HBO documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest. I think it's kind of the the act is dramatized, but this doc is like the definitive sort of story of Gypsy Rose and Dedie Blanchard, and I think it's I think

Yeah, amazing, thank you for that. I haven't even seen it. I should watch it. I should definitely watch that dog.

I think it's honestly still on Delta possibly check out.

Actually, I don't know if I need to do it on the flight. That's where I watched it.

If Clueless is available, I'm watching Clueless. I don't know if Mommy Dead and Dearest is gonna push its way through.

That's where I watched it.

But next week make sure you watch along or don't. We don't care, but it's presumed guilty. Season fourteen, Episode ten, Peacock, Hulu, Library, VPN stick, so many ways to watch as if you go to a friend's house yesterday, I made you know Kara dv are something because I don't have TV for me because I wanted to watch it.

So don't always ask for help.

And we'll see you guys next week for a very special holiday episode.

Bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

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