Paternity w/ Isabel Gillies

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Dune done.

Hey, it's that's messed up? An SVU podcast.

I'm Liza Trigger and I as always am Kara Klank and you guys hopefully should know the drill. We talk about an episode of Law and Order, sview a true crime that is based on and interview an awesome celebrity guest from the episode. And today is our one hundred episode.

Wow, I forgot. That was a truly surprise. I'm like so excited.

I can't believe, Like surprise, Lisa.

I just can't believe we've done a hundred fucking episodes.

Isn't that crazy?

I can't believe we've talked to one hundred people I know and a hundred crimes.

And one hundred crimes even more because sometimes we do two crimes, Oh my god, and yeah, and it feels like yesterday, like I still talk to people, and I'm like it's kind of new, like it's kind of a new podcast, but it's like we've been going on for like, it's like almost two years in a couple of Like we started in October recording, but the first episodes didn't come out until December.

Wait, you know what, And the first crime we did is Leona Hemsley. And I didn't post these photos. I forgot because I had my Central Park photos that I loved so much laying on the ground.

But I there's Hemsley buildings in New York.

Oh yeah, yeah.

I was like, you're doing a lot of poses next to all the Hemsley's everywhere.

Where you like, send out the dog. I was just reminiscing about her. Trouble Dog's name was Trouble. Yeah, yeah, just that's very cool.

Yeah.

And I recorded in so many different places, which is wild and situations and different.

It's really yeah, And like I thought, I I thought, honestly, like in the back of my mind, I was like, I wonder if I'll get bored just like asking people about their s F experience.

But like I haven't at all.

Like everyone we've talked to, I feel like has been interesting and has had something different to say. And I like love everyone that we've talked to on this pod. I mean, I guess there's probably one or two that weren't my shape, and.

I'm here the name names.

We're not gonna name names, but like, obviously you guys have favorites and not favorites too. Listen, there's some dishes. No, No one was like, I don't think so, but no, it's been very exciting and I like meeting everyone. It's just cool to be in people's days, you know, it's wild. It's like people listen as they do their laundry or do the dishes, or commuting or working out or like doing their makeup, and so it's like very cool to be in people's lives, routines, in their ears.

Yeah, it feels cool and not to be annoying. But this is my job to tell you guys. But I'd like to be in your life even more when we come to your city on tour.

Hello.

This episode is wide releasing on November first, which means you've still got two weeks or so to get tickets for our Midwestern run of our tour. We're going to be in Rosemont, Illinois, which is right outside of Chicago, on eleven thirteen, Chicago at Zany's on eleven fourteen, Indianapolis on the fifteenth, Columbus on the sixteenth, Cleveland on the seventeenth, Detroit on the eighteenth, and Madison on the twentieth. Guys, come see us, and I think on the nineteenth are

So come see us do stand.

Up to.

Yeah, And of course in December, we're gonna be in Florida, Tampa on the first, Miami on the third, and Orlando on the thirtieth of November. Sorry, I forgot about that Orlando date because it's kind of hanging off the edge of November there.

But yeah, we're going to stay an umer day and like go to Universal Studios. Probably not, oh man, I would love to, or like i'd even go to like Bush Gardens.

I fucking love amusement parks.

Yeah, let's go to a chiller one. I don't need to go to a popular one. The less people the better for me. What is Bush Gardens. I've never heard of it.

I forget. It's a big Florida No, it's a I might have animals, but it's a big Florida amusement park. So we'll look into where I've been to it, but I think it was in Saint Petersburg. I can't remember. I will find out and we can maybe go because I love amusement parks. But yeah, we love you guys so much. We really love meeting people on our tours. We meet and greet like everybody afterwards, and we.

Have exclusive merch for a tour only.

Yeah, I love sellar. Yeah, we sell cool merch that's only for SA on the tours. So yeah, even if you're coming by yourself, people are always like, I don't have anyone to go with me. Everybody makes a friend when they come to the show. So many people come alone, they always meet other people that listen. At the very least, you have our podcast in common. You can just sit and have a drink and watch our podcast together. So anyway,

Like it's it was.

I was like, you guys are bringing me back to that episode and I didn't like it.

No, it was intense, the machete being with the family. I can't imagine. It's was a lot. It was a lot.

I just like, I agree with what you were telling me the other day, Like it's just feels like there's a seriousness and like a heaviness And not that not that the show's subject matter does not deserve seriousness and heaviness.

It is the most serious and heavy subject matter, But.

I think what the reason one of the reasons we love the first like twelve or so seasons so much is because like Munch brought some levity, ic t brought some levity, Like there was a little bit of humor in it, and like.

Craigan had little clips like yeah, it's funny.

It seems like Benson's just like fighting the world constantly and these bad bosses and these horrific heavy things like you said, and it's like there just used to be a little comedy banter and a little spirit and funny lines and silly headlines and shit like that, and like, yeah, and I'm missing the humor. It's just like because like silly websites, like you know, just things that were like when you see us on tour.

Actually, this isn't totally unrelated.

Like we do a lot of we do mostly episodes from the first twelve seasons. Those we only do because they're the most fun to kind of like they're they're the only ones that have like a little bit of camp to them that we can make fun of on like when we do the live show, you know, and some people have been asking, they're like, are you guys going to cover these on the podcast? And just to let you know, our live shows are always not based on crimes. They're the ones that are not based on crimes.

When we were talking, I said, I was like, I credit Neil Bear, this might that might be a Neil Bear signature, Hutch, because maybe that's the Warren light vibe is here. I don't know what it is, but I do credit Neil Bear a little bit to the little nod the Hollywood.

I don't know, like, but Marishka is also like an EP on the show, so like you think that she has like some say of that.

And everyone she's so funny.

Exactly like ninety five out of one hundred guests or like she's so funny. So I'm just like, yeah, what happened to the I guess we talked to Mrshca One day we'll get to ask.

Oh, we can't tell her the show you see funny.

I'm gonna go, what.

Happened to a funny vibe?

Girl? When did things get so serious? I'm gonna go, like that's the thing they were able, Oh my god, you said joker.

So I was talking to someone and we were talking tattoos, and then I was saying how I would love hand tattoos.

I think it's like so cool, but I would never do it.

And someone was like, oh, yeah, my friend has the Joker face on his hand, like on the what's.

This part called yeah, yeah upper.

D yeah, and it's like the jokers smile, and I go, that's disgusting. He'll never get a date ever in his life and he goes, WHOA, he is single. I go, yeah, that's like the international sign of like no one will fuck you.

Yeah, he said his friend in cell calling card.

Yeah, he said.

His friend is fifty and single and has never really been in a relationship and can't figure it out. And I was like, yeah, and I'm sure this joker hand tattoo is not helping.

Do an experiment and wear a glove on a date.

Well, no, it obviously infiltrates the personality, like you're just gonna get the joker on your hand, you know. But I wonder if people when they see me around how chili prepper tattoo, if they kind of assume something about me that is real or not?

Like I wonder totally.

And you know what's funny is like my brother Colin, who you've met, who is like not He's like a funny gay man, like not an inceel at all. Like was obsessed with the heath Ledger joker. Like the heath Ledger Joker. He had like a poster of it in his room. Like he was so in that way different and he's like it's changed, right, heath.

Ledger was something special and like I didn't even watch it, but I feel like it's the Joaquin Joker.

Everyone's talk.

You're talking, it's like a stand up comic who's depressed. It's like, you know, yeah, this is depressed women, Like I don't understand, you know, it's not getting fucked Kathy the comic and she just eats cheetahs. Like it's just it's crazy what these men. These men cannot handle it.

Yeah, do you think emotional is only crying? They do, like they do.

They don't think punching a hole in a wall is being emotional.

Yeah, And this guy was like truly yelly.

Like twelve other people were hanging out in silence as this dude was like flipping out about something and he was just like I'm just explaining, like I'm just passionate. You would know if I'm mad. And it's like, no, I see you all the time. You are really mad all the time. Like you you are very emotional.

Oh my god, wait, can we please explain the video that you sent me this tweet yesterday? But then today I see retweeted it, so I think it's like kind of going viral like this guy. There was this like funny moment on like the People's Court where this guy is talking to the judge and being like, I, you know, you can't be happy with women or something like that, and the judge says, like, I don't know, he's happy. He's been married twenty years and points to this like

But fuck that was I was like, where's this going?

I tweet the one that I sent you the caption whoever reposted it wrote that escalated quickly.

Yeah, so I thought.

The bailiff was going to like jump and you know, hit the guy. I thought it was going to be in the court room, like I ever thought it was going to escalate to like and you know, I see who's chill as fuck on the internet. Was like this is wild crazy, like His caption is like, oh my god, I love as damn you know what.

You know what I think would be I'm gonna say this before we leave, just like the way I just said joker and you like had a story for it. I think it would be funny to do a podcast with you where I just come in with like five six random words prepared every week and we see where you go with them. I really think it would be so funny to just come in and be like Corvette and then you just like.

Are like, oh no, I actually have a story about that. But the joker wasn't even like how did you get there?

The word is equal to oh, yes, that was an easy one. Yeah that was.

Sometimes it's like, but I've.

Been in a Corvette and can I just say the leg room is nice, really nice? Like I was like, oh, I get it, you know, like it felt nice.

I don't like being that close to the street like with these like low to the ground like sports cars.

I like being high up.

You know, my god, you know who I want to shout out, don our fucking mechanic. I mean his name's not Don, it's Don's auto shop. His dad bought it. He works there and the best customer service I ever ever got in anywhere. He knows, he knows everyone's don's I walk in, he goes Lisa right away, and then so the next person came in, knew her name, knows everything, like so nice, always a good banter, like I love dropping my car off, I hate doing errands.

They actually couldn't do something for me one time and sent me to another.

Guy who gave me like a really good price.

And because I was like, oh he sent me, you know, so it's like very neighborhoody shit.

But the reason I thought of him because he has three cars, two he doesn't drive and one he does, so he has a sport like a racing car, his baby, and then his Audi that he uses.

Okay, okay, I got it.

Yeah, Well we should also I thought you were going somewhere different with that. Thank you, But we should also thank our producer, Casey. Casey, it's our one hundredth episode. Thank you for thanking our great producer and everybody at exactly right, thanks for a hundred episodes.

Should we shout out On a Lease they've been a part of On a Lease are amazing.

I mean, Hannah at the beginning we've had an We've had an amazing list of great are We've got a great booker named Patrick. Guys, everybody at exactly right is awesome some and we are psyched to be here and passing our one hundredth milestone, and we hope to be here for our five hundredth episode because as view just has to keep going or we won't be able to wait.

But we should say some sort of memories from our one hundred I guess this is a big deal. We're like talking about bailiffs murdering their wives, like we should. We should talk about something with us.

I also like our merch. It's cute.

Yeah, and we have new merch coming who knows when they already dropped.

Hopefully by the time you hear this, I hope you've seen that we have new merch.

Yeah, hopefully. We don't know the waiting, you know.

Trying to get it in for the holiday season.

We're part of, oh yeah, it'll be in for holidays, but this comes out like November first. I don't be ready by then, but it'll be down for holidays for sure. And yeah, that's messed up. Live dot Com is our tour, guys, Come see us, come help us celebrate one hundred amazing episodes.

And I don't know what.

I don't know.

Do you have like a favorite interview, Like no, but I think about Helen Shaver a lot.

You know, the director. I really liked her.

I feel like I whenever I brag about guests, like when I'm out in a bout with like just socializing, I always say, lou Diamond Phillips, that's where.

Ye start you do. He is your baseline brag. I'm always like, we got Y Cleft because he was so huge for like my college music life.

But and then I go to the cast, you know, I say, we've got Beady Wonk. But I depending on who I'm talking to you, it's like the actor's name or the characters. But if it's an I'm like, we got Craigan, Yeah, we got Novack, we got Yeah. I think Bert Trevor was the most like I was like, Wow, You're just the hottest person ever, so hot. I feel like Andy Powers I was very smitten for that was like an exciting one.

Yeah you loved Andy Powers, That's true. I really love Jacqueline Smith gorgeous, a woman who has never done a podcast, just sitting looking beautiful in her in her California.

I got a few first podcasters on yeah, and I like that.

Karen Karen Lee we just had it was her first podcast. Delaney Williams had never done a podcast, so we're breaking them in.

Yeah, and hopefully they'll keep on coming. I mean Marcia gay Harden. I remember when she was booked. That was that was a moment for us.

It was hard to continue from there. We just like came out of the gate almost with an Oscar winner.

Yeah, and even right away, I feel like we we were good.

We were challenge.

Well yeah, congratulations too.

Honestly, me and you like us like we I love us.

Our dynamic, our virgo dynamic.

It works, Yeah, the opposite sides of some kind of wild virgo spectrum.

Oh, I like Jeffrey Kobert. That's how.

That's how you say we love.

Yeah. Like I feel like I was transfixed with it. I was like, yeah, meditate, okay, I'll rub a horse.

And then Missy Pile, I was like best friends with Missy Pyle. I keep I'm like I'm going to DM her and be like you want to get dinner. I tried.

I did try to dm did you say I tried to do a group chat. I don't think she responded, yeah, she never.

I don't think she's on there very much. I don't think we tried to just tell her, hey, everybody loves your interview, and she was just like not.

But I don't know if she's on very much. But yeah, I mean Mark first. I mean that's newer, so it's like freshman head. But like we said, it's one hundred episodes. It's like tough to even put them all together. It's like, what's going on?

Yeah, but let's let's dive into the episode because I will say I love our guest today. We had an amazing today, huge hundred of guests. I think for us we loved talking to this person. You guys are gonna love it. But let's get started with today's episode because it's a fucking class seek and thanks for listening.

Yes, we love you guys.

Hi.

Today we're doing Paternity season nine, episode nine, Brooklyn nine nine.

We open on.

All watching this, didn't remember anything. I was on the ED Jimmy see like, I think it's and I started crying. I think this is like a William Lewis for me. I think I avoided on purpose. Oh really, yeah, I was like fully crying when the accident happened.

Oh yeah, I was tearing up.

The accident is dramatic, and I think that, like I always remember there being the accident, and I think that the accident almost overshadows the rest of the plot of the episode. That's why I was like, yeah, well, I you know, anyway, we'll get into it.

But yeah, yeah, I didn't know anything. I saw the mom I'm like, who is this woman? Like I just really it's like I was watching it for.

The first time, which is sometimes can be fun, but maybe not in this case. We open on a little blonde bowl cut like bobbing and weaving down a Manhattan sidewalk. It's a little kid and there's a grown man chasing him, telling him to stop, and it's like, I don't know, it's just not the that's really not the way to do it. If you're just like a man running after a kid, you gotta be like Bobby stop, Like he was just like stop, Like he seemed like a villain.

Yeah?

I think he was a guy. I honestly think he was a guy that just saw a kid covered in blood and was like, hey, kid, stop, let me help you, okay, and like yeah, and then it looked very sketchy unfortunately, because.

Al yeah, like he even looks trustworthy.

I think they want you to think, like, what is going on here? Yeah, but totally the gel helps with that. So the paramedics, yeah, check him out, and Benson and Stabler are there and they're like, yeah, like give us the clothes, we're gonna run it for DNA. And they asked the boy's name and he says Tommy. And we have a listener named Christine. I think it's it's Christine s. I don't want to say her last name in case

Was it planned?

I doubt it?

Was oh, maybe it.

Wasn't planned, but oh yeah, they're of course not going to do any kind of selective but I just couldn't. I'd be like, nope, not out, Like I don't know if I was like done. I mean, she's having her fifth baby at the time that I basically had my second baby in her life, so it's like, I'm not. I definitely waited longer than seventeen to have kids, but it's just wild the age gap. I like didn't realize Eli was so much younger than the rest of the kids.

Showsay, Human Target reminded me of something off topic. But do you read about that woman with Alzheimer's No, So the son donated his mother's body to science to Alzheimer's research, and then the government sold it to like NASA and they strapped her body into like a spaceship and exploded her body. What Yeah, like the government sold her for like six thousand dollars or bought her and then exploded her in some kind of ship or how did people

Yeah, I just.

Saw woman and Alzheimer's like take it. But then the comments were so mean towards the guy. They're like, yeah, this piece of shit son didn't want to spend money on a funeral and just gave his mother to research. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that that's maybe a thing I forgot, Like they're preying on the poor in a different way.

Yeah, but also she had Alzheimer's. He's donating her body to science. He's doing a.

Service, like instead of what like paying thousands of dollars for her to rot in the ground as worm food like ew. Well, that point was just like the internet's wild with opinions like I would have never even thought about that. Oh, let me write Alzheimer's woman explosion, Like hold on, let me see it elderly blown up by US Army explosive.

I just don't even get how the story got out. Someone must have leaked it, because like, the government wouldn't be so stupid to be like, hello, we're like writing to let you know that we've blown your mother up. Thank you for donating her body.

Yeah, explosives testing, and she looks just like an She was then supposedly strapped in a chair on some sort of apparatus and a detent detonation took place underneath her to basically kind of get an idea what the human body goes through when a vehicle is hit by an ied.

Oh my god, So it wasn't space, they just exploded her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was the Archemy, not NASA. Yeah yeah, that which makes more sense to be hones.

Sure, but horrific.

Like I'd honestly, I'd rather my grandmother be shot into space and blown up than just like blown up by the army, honestly. Oh yeah.

And so the family is now suing Biological Resource Center, the company that sold her body to the US Army.

It good get that money. That's fucked up.

Biological Research Center has since closed this doors after the FBI raided its facility in twenty fourteen.

Oh so this is a while ago. Damn, that's fucking crazy. It is crazy.

I can't believe you didn't see that, but I'm glad I let you know.

Sure didn't. But yes, thank you for telling me. Yeah, be careful where you die. I also once again lessons in where Lisa's mind goes. I don't know what that has to do with human target, but I love that that jogged you and that we got to that story. So anyway, Yeah, this guy, Mark Valley, he's chiseled, jaw generic hotman, comes in and he's like, my name's Jake Keegan. I'm Tommy's dad. They're like, why didn't you report hi missing? He's like, because I thought he was at home, Like

They all go to the apartment. There's like blood on the walls. Jake is yelling Leah, Leah, Leah, his wife's name.

They find a blonde woman lying face down in the bed, blood everywhere. She's very dead, and then Jake gets closer and realizes, oh, that's not my wife. It's Jody, our nanny. But she was supposed to be off today, so dune done. What's going on? Melinda tells them now as she zips up the body bag, that Jody was raped and then beaten to death around eleven am this morning. There's fresh semen on the comforter, so they do have DNA. They need to get Jake's DNA to exclude him, and Stabler's like,

Just handing money on that would work.

I'm just saying, there is a dead babysitter in the bed, So your brain is like, it is probably going to the worst case scenario. True, that's true. That's true.

Once you've seen a dead babysitter, you're like, it's the guy who did it, and he took my wife.

God, yeah, that does make sense.

But when he goes away, they're like, listen, there is a second charge on the card for a motel room in Morristown, New Jersey. So now they're like that they were discreet about they were discreet. That's nice. They were they were doing they were doing a solid for Jake Keegan. So now they're at the motel and some dorky guys

So she's been working.

Bro.

I didn't know that you like Damages this. Oh my, you've ever mentioned it? Oh no, haven't I mentioned it before? When I used to watch Damages, Lisa, I was like an addict, Like I would be up at three in the morning, and I'd be like, what does it matter if I go to bed at three? Verses four, Like I'm just gonna watch one more episode. Like I was crazy how obsessed with that show I was and what it was.

It's Glenn Close, right.

Yeah, it's Glenn Close and Rose Burne. It's like Rose Byrne's first breakout thing. And what are they lawyers? Lawyers, the high fucking high fucking power lawyers. Like she's Glenn Close is very like Devilwar's productesque, like Top of but without the funniness, Like it's there's like murder and intrigue and backstabbing and like manipulation it's like it's really good.

I believe it. Great actresses.

Also.

I don't know if you know this, but Tone Bell was in Mark Feuerstein's show JKL for nine or whatever.

No, he was the neighbor. Oh man, he gets out there and work. He's working.

Yeah, he's working, always working, always booked.

He had such a fun show with Joe DeRosa about hip hop at the Meltown that I went time once and it was so fun. It was called can I Kick It Anyway? Okay, So Anastasia slash Leah, the mom is just like get me out of here, like I need to go see my son Tommy. And they're like, uh, hello, one quick thing. You're dead nanny and she barely cares. She's like, listen, she was a nice kid, a Mormon from Utah. I don't know anything. And Stabler immediately is

But it's like you are truly unfazed that this woman was brittally murdered in yeah, yeah, yeah, and it could have been her.

I guess, like, you know, we don't know what happened, right, so or like your son, I mean, I guess she wants to get to her son because he possibly witnessed a full murder, Like it's really you know, traumatic, so poor Tommy, Oh my god. Okay, So she says she won't talk to Detective Dick, and she tells live how they found Jody. They advertised in a paper in Utah because Mormons make the best nannies. They don't drink, they

With another I can't believe these Mormons are going to New York City.

Oh that's in my notes, that is in my fucking notes. I'm like, these girls are in New York, Like, it doesn't. So she tells them that Jody is the only other one with the key to the house, and she would never have opened the door of a complete stranger, so it must have been someone she knew. And she goes, I only know two of her friends. They're Becca and Kimberly,

You know.

So anyway, the nannies are clearly hiding something, and stablers like spill it and they do. They're like, listen, Jody was acting weird the last few months, dressing kind of slutty. Stop coming to the playground and they're like, well, where was she going? And they're like, just online, like she missed her boyfriend and she was looking for someone to talk to. They said they stopped by the house last week and they saw Jody kissing some guy who was leaving.

Like we have DNA? Are we going to find out that it's yours?

And then we cut right to interrogation and the guy is there going, yeah, we had sex and then I left and he's like, I would never hurt her. We were passionately in love. And then liv walks in with like a handful of receipts. She's like, I'll say, thirty

But I looked him up and I don't same anything, but this.

Same he looked so familiar to me, And I looked him up and was like, yeah, I don't know this guy, but he looks very familiar and he's.

Working and it said that he was in Scarface, so like sure, but yeah, I have no idea.

Right, I've never seen Scarface, so really no, you know, I have a lot of blind spot movies like Scarface, Godfather, like classic movies I haven't seen.

I haven't seen Godfather, but that's because it takes itself seriously. Scarface is like fun, right MIAMII guns I know, like.

Say hello to my little friend and Tony Montel like the whole like snorting the mountains of coke. Like I know all the stuff from Scarface. I just haven't seen it. But liv starts playing this guy Raphael like with her flirty kind of like, you know, I totally understand what you're saying, but these young girls are so dumb, like she should have seen how her love was real. She was so lucky to have you, like flirty, flirty Benson.

All she saw was my age.

So this guy's really insecure and a psycho. So Elliott is watching all this through the one way glass. Melinda shows up with some news, but it's not about Jody's murder per se. She ran the Tommy's blood and his dad's blood to exclude them from like the murder scene blood, and it turns out done done. Jake is not Tommy's dad. They have no matching alleles, which I remember from bio means you ain't related. So now Benson and Stabler are having one of their classic debates about morality and ethics.

I don't know.

I just feel like classically men are always like is it mine? Like it has to always be they have to spread their seed and like have it be their DNA, and they're like lineage or whatever. You know, it's a weird thing. I feel like men do anyway, He asks Stabler, what if you found out one of your kids wasn't yours? And Stabler is speechless because I don't even think Jake

Has been fucking this dude for a while, a while, three year.

I mean the kid's three, you know, so at least three or four years she's been having this long term affair. And so Matt has shown up to see Tommy. Leea's like, he's got to be the father. He's the only other man I've been with. And Jake's like, who knows this bitch cheated on me? She probably cheated on you. And Matt's like, don't talk to her that way. We're in

I was really sad. Try to cover the costs. No, he's a sketchball.

He did not try to cover the car at him. But the girl, no, No, the roommate was a guy, a gay guy. So he brought home a guy and was like, well, my purse went missing, and he was just like I don't know, and I'm like, but it was in your room and like you had this hook up and like now it's not here, and so that's definitely what happened to it. I was like, I didn't throw my purse out the window in a drunken rage,

He lunges at Matt again.

They pulled him apart, just as Tommy comes out and is like, daddy, like what's going on? And Jake's like, go back to bed, and the actor boyfriend, Matt, tries to be like, did you have a bad dream? And it's like it's he is seriously trying to connect with the kid, but it's like funny because it's like this guy does not know you. He's not going to tell you about his bad dream. And Leah's screaming for them

But like, well, they're really switching it up from that episode.

I thought it's DNA.

This other biological dad has no rights, but the biological dad of the guy who had the adoption switcheroo like was not had all the rights. Like it's confusing, which we know that Matt can sue for custody, which you know eventually he's going to.

So anyway, apparently even if a woman tricks a guy into getting her pregnant like hole in the diaphragm, whatever, he's still responsible. So Casey says, you know, both these guys punched each other, it's a draw, let's cut them both loose, and Stabler like looks out the window with Jake for a moment, and we understand that Stabler feels bad for Jake. So now at home in bed at

It's a quick moment, but also with Jake, it's like, yeah, you shouldn't have worked so much.

You know she's gonna get fucked somewhere, Like.

Yeah, but do you think he needed to work to keep up with her expensive tastes? Do you think she would have been okay wearing less fancy shit if he'd been around more. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who knows.

It's a good She looked trashy. She looked like a sandy ag.

Yeah, yeah, telling me that she likes Prada and Pooci. I'm not liking the outfits. Money can't buy you class.

But also she looks like trash like there's no way that she knew what Poochi was before Jake.

But their house looks nice too, So he's got to pay that mortgage. I don't know. I don't know. I agree,

And I think we can all assume what happens, and it's like, what did you do?

Bro?

Yeah?

Yeah, now you're not going to be with your kid at all, and actually the person you didn't want to raise him will do well now have him, Yeah, and probably not bring him to jail to visit your dumb ass.

Yeah.

So she is dead on a pool, pool of blood around her head, face down on the floor.

Where's Jake? Of course there is a reason that we are.

We were hearing all that seemingly pointless info about the lake House because that's clearly where Jake has gone. I think it's like off on Long Island and Live is gonna call the local sheriff out there to watch the house, and Stabler's gonna head there, But what about Kathy's appointment? Lives like, as usual, I'll cover shit with your wife, and Stabler doesn't even say thank you, he just heads out. So we get to the lake House and there's a

Hole and broke his leg.

And I'm like, did you guys get an ambulance on set just for that plotline?

Like that's wild.

They like hired an ambulance to be like just kidding, that's not Jake. It's like not really enough of a red herring. Do you think they own an ambulance or they're always rend Even if they did, they had to get it from like fucking New Jersey where they keep all their shit to lung.

I mean, who knows, maybe they shot this in New Jersey.

You're right, I don't know.

It's supposed to be Long Island. It just seems like a wild extra thing.

And now they've actually the guy tell the sheriff says, no, we've got Jake around back. He had a gun, but my guy's disarmed him. And so Stabler goes to talk to Jake and they have this like you know, man to man talk where Jake's like, you know you were right about Tommy.

I was up all night watching him sleep. He's my son.

It was my job to kill his mom and leave him parentless. Like I don't really understand this man at all. But he says, Leah told me that she was going to divorce me, and that Matt filed for custody. I was going to lose Tommy. And then she laughed at him and he snapped. So this is the second woman in this episode to get murdered for laughing at a man. So a theme, okay, And he knew Tommy would hate him forever. So so Stabler's like, so did you come

Why do you have to drive out to a lake house to do it?

But you know, he realized that he had fucked up right after he murdered his wife.

So Stabler's phone rings.

It's Olivia and she's driving Kathy to the appointment, and he and Kathy say they're like little I love yous, and then he finally says thank you to Olivia. Now, for two seconds, we're in this quiet car and then out of nowhere, a car runs the intersection and smashes into the car carrying Kathy and Olivia. So scary car

It just didn't used to be so POV. It didn't used to be.

So I'm feeling what it's like to be smashed out of nowhere in a car crash, and it's like they're just they've made them too scary for me now. But a top of act four, Live comes to she sees what's going on. Kathy is unconscious in the car. Live grabs her walkie and calls in a bus and the fire department and tells them that Kathy's legs are pinned and we can see like her legs cannot move. Then Live like smashes her own window and climbs out of the car. The fire trucks are there within a minute,

He reminds me of the old shady guy from the office. Oh Creed, Yeah, he reminded me of a Creed vibe. He had a Creed vibe for sure, Creed thoughts Dot Blogspot. Okay, So they disarmed the bag and then they pop all the tires.

I didn't know that that was like something they did. I guess they don't want the car to like roll anywhere, but they pop all the tires and now they have to get Kathy out, but they can't use the jaws of life to do it until they stabilize her neck and head in case she has a spinal injury. And like, when I became a lifeguard, we learned all about these spinal injuries. Like you really got to keep everybody's head.

Yeah, like, yeah, thank you for you know, the scene and Olivia stressing out.

Find it mean, but like I don't buy it. Yeah, I was for sure TV Magic. We needed it to be Olivia out. Nobody would care about a paramedic helping Kathy. It needs to be Olivia for the emotional stakes of it all. And so.

She climbs back in.

She gets into the backseat of the car, so she's behind Kathy like stabilizing her neck and face and everything and uh, and they're like we're gonna have to cut the roof off of the whole car, and it's like holy shit. So Olivia is putting a neck brace around Kathy. Just as Kathy comes to and she's like got blood on her head and she's like, what's going on? She has great acts. Yeah, she's so confused. Yeah, it's like so real, Like this shit looks so real to me.

Kathy wakes up pretty immediately.

I'm glad to know that's how fluids work, if it is, and great work, Benson. So Kathy's back with us and getting fluids, and they tell Kathy we're going to take the roof off the car. They cover her face with a coat. At this point, I'm like traumatized because like, I gave birth like in a hospital bed with an epidural and it was still fucking hard and traumatic. And so to be covered in blood, getting a roof sowt off a car, your husband's not there, like it just

I did like watching Benson squeeze the ivy bag. Yeah, I wish I could squeeze an ivy bag.

I think if you fill up a ziplock with water, it's the same sensation.

No oh, it's a thicker plastic and you know it.

It's it.

Ivy bags are thicker yeah.

Yes, this one looked like it was some kind of portable IVY bag.

It looked like thinner to me. It didn't look like the ones that are in the hospital. Yeah, but whatever, you're a doctor, If you could, somebody please send ly'sa an IVY bag, we'd really love to get her. Even used, I won't like use it. Yeah, we don't need the iv we just need the bag, Like really, yeah, just send that bag over.

When I was young, I was obsessed with that, like like, you know, before they take your blood in the test tube, there's like stuff already in there.

It's yeah, gunk.

Yeah, I made I made some phlebotomus give them to me. I used to be like obsessed with collecting them. So I'd be like, what is that? Can I have one?

And I would take them.

Oh wow, A fascination At an early age.

I like that.

But I don't know what they're for.

I'm sure tons of people were explaining it to me, but I think the stuff that's in there is probably just some kind of like preservative or something that's like keeps the blood from coagulating or something. I don't know, maybe blood can't coagulate out of the body. I have no idea anyway. I am not a.

Love of those pens that looked like syringes.

Yes, with the blood, like the fake blood in it. Yeah, those are fine.

I don't Yeah, what's up with me? But I'm liking all this medical supply stuff.

You're a phleblotomy girl, what can we say? So they are like, yeah, I just am like not giving birth is so hard. It's like you don't need a head wound and a fireman like lurking around. It's just very seems very traumatic. And a Live just keeps being like are you okay?

Are you okay?

Kathy?

Are you okay? And it's like she's definitely not okay, and Live tells the she keeps having contractions is essentially what's going on. And Live tells one of the fire guys she's like, the contractions are three minutes apart, like, and she tells the paramedics like we got to give her something to slow down the labor, and the paramedics like I just don't carry that shit with me, like I don't have it.

And so just then I have.

Called nine one one and dealt with paramedics and I cannot imagine them having the skills to do this in the way that these TV paramedics did. It. Really the dumbest people I've ever met. I mean, obviously there's amazing paramedics, but when our friend, when I saved her from choking the Heimlich before I realized that it had dislodged, I didn't.

I thought I didn't know what to do.

So I was dragging her outside while calling nine one one because I was like, maybe someone at the bar across the street, yeah, do Behin'm like better, but I did dislodge the fry, and so the nine one one operator was like, well, we still have to send the paramedic. Once you call, we have to send it. And I was like, but we're fine, and she's like, we have to. So these paramedics show up and they keep telling our friend. They're like, was it boyfriend trouble? Are you sure it

Like boy trouble, what the fuck? Psychotic?

And then finally like we did the play Bible and she's like, well, I was on the phone with my boyfriend and he goes see Jack, Oh.

My god, I'm going to kill someone.

Yeah, they were just like disheveled, did not seem that cool.

Also like they were parking for forever.

And maybe it's because they knew we didn't really need them anymore, but like they were slow, they weren't helpful, they were sexist, they were like WEIRDO.

Yeah, well that does seem like you got bad paramedics. They feel like paramedics are really hard working, underpaid people in general.

Definitely underpaid, especially if you're this guy. But I was like with these guys, I was like, I can't imagine them giving birth to Kathy's baby and helping her.

Yeah they would, I don't.

I just can't imagine this guy is like a superstar.

Yeah yeah, I wish.

I remember what else, But I remember them being like so fucking up.

That's really gross and annoying. It's like, just deal with the metal. You don't really need to know the background of what was happening before or with the fry, like just a fry, just deal with it.

Well, yeah, can you also not flirt with a woman who almost just died and like life flashed before her eyes? Like give her a second. But when I was a kid, I went to the hospital all the time, and I remember the paramedics being fine, probably annoyed because I shouldn't have been going.

But these guys were shlubs, not good, not good.

When I was watching this guy, I was like, oh this is is this a fantasy?

Yeah, well this guy is a good is good at his job. But he's like, I do not have the drugs that you're talking about, Like I don't carry that with me in the ambulance.

So sorry.

And so just then Daddy Craigan arrives with Elliott on the phone and he's like I'm here, babe, are you all right? And she's like yeah, Olivia's taking really good care of me. And it's like so fucked up. I would be like, I don't have time to talk, just get here, like I don't know. They say I love you to each other, and now the roof has been cut off already and they're using the jaws of life now to free her legs, and it's just like it is a very like it's a very realistically shot scene.

I feel like like I've never seen the Jaws of Life really work like that. It was like This is so scary how cars are just like these metal like balls that were in that can just collapse in on us and we have to get out. But Craigan is stand doing nothing as their jaws of lifing her out of there. Everybody keeps telling Kathy, hang in there, hang in there.

It's so fucked. One guy calls her, honey, I you know. I was like, we don't need that. And then finally her legs are free, and they've got to put her now, they've got to Finally her legs are free, and it's like the nightmare just continues. Now we've got to put her on a spineboard. Okay, they've got They keep telling her to stay still, and this is like my full nightmare. It's your nightmare is to be giving birth and people keep telling you stay still, don't move, like nightmare. So

Like I guess they because I think you're supposed to wait until you've been fully checked to make sure you don't have a spinal injury.

But but this is.

A wild what can you do? It's a wild scenario.

So she's off the spinal board, she's leaning up against Olivia, and she's pushing because she's dilated, and the baby is crowning.

So now she's pushing.

Oh my god, we get three big pushes and the baby is out. It's a boy. So now she had to be wrong on top of all of this trauma. And she's holding the baby and it's like a happy moment for a second. But then she starts to like slowly lie back and she's passing out and the machine starts to beep like she's her bread blood pressure is crashing, she's coating. This is bad.

So then Olivia so shocked, like the look of shock on Olivia's face.

Hat they just hand her the baby. We never even see an umbilical cord get cut. But like she's now holding the baby and we're all thinking, oh my god, Kathy's gonna die live has the baby wrapped in one of those silver marathon blankets. Like it's wild, like they haven't even the baby's not even washed off yet, so we don't know what's going on. We're thinking, oh my god, is Kathy gonna die? Now? At the hospital, Elliot runs in.

It's like okay, but I.

Guess with Stabler's philosophy, whether that was one of Kathy's like we were on a break babies or not, he would have still been the father. I don't know. It's like who knows, because that's the way he was talking to Jake the whole episode. So outside the hospital room, a live is like staring into space, looking exhausted and traumatized.

Live looks like eyes are closed, like it looks weirdly, weirdly, it's.

Like sexual this hug.

And so I think I remember when this episode was on, when I watched it live, I remember thinking, oh, fuck, are they actually gonna let it happen? Are they gonna kill Kathy and let Sabler and Olivia be together? And I think a lot of viewers were like, fuck, man, like that could have been it, and it wasn't. So the long intense hug ends and they look at each other and Live breaks attention and it's like, so, did.

You guys pick a name?

And he's like, Kathy wants to name the baby after me, and uh, it's like, not the man who was there for the birth, but the other guy who was barely around the baby should have been named Oliver if you ask me, and uh, liv goes just what the world needs. Another Elliott STABLERL. And then that's Dick Wolf Baby, and that's paternity A very.

Good I'm jealous that you watched it live and have memories. I was just thinking this must have been so wild to watch life.

I just remember that was one of the only besides their divorce they got back together. So you were like, when they got divorced, you kind of thought, oh, maybe this is something. But then he got together with Beck and then when they got when they when this accident happened, I thought, oh, maybe this is it, Like maybe they're gonna maybe they're gonna kill her, and then they didn't.

No, And I love that the people on Twitter are like, why does Dick Wolf hate us? Just give us what we want? And it's like, why would they let you guys decide? Yeah, you're nuts, You're nuts, all right, I'm gonna do some crimes after these messages. So today's episode is based on obviously a super sad case mostly around the babysitter, I would say, and it's about a girl named Christina Long, and this is a crime in Connecticut.

Oh, Dan Barry, what year we'll get to it?

Okay, did I not write? I know dan Berry two thousand and two and two?

Yeah?

Did this?

Did this hit your brain? Well?

You know if it was the fall of two thousand. I was living in Connecticut, so it's wild. But the dan Berry Fair Mall I always was obsessed with because it has a fair has a carousel in it, and I was always like, can we go to the dan Berry Mall mom? And like it's it's kind of far from where I live, but kind of wild that this isn't jogging any Well, tell me the whole story maybe it will.

So, yeah, this is Connecticut.

So Christina Long was the sixth grader at Saint Peter Roman Catholic School in dan Berry, Connecticut, and she had good grades, led the cheerleading squad, and was an altar girl. But like any classic SVU story, she had a different life online. She came to live in Danberry with her aunt, Shelley Rilling because her parents had substance abuse problems.

So her parents were.

Just like not very good so she came to stay with her aunt, and her aunt says that she had no idea about Christina's online life, but her screen name was long.

Too hot for You Wow.

And then she had a slogan that said I will do anything at least once, and she was having sex to people she met in chat.

Rooms in sixth grade. Oh she was thirteen.

Yeah, So her aunt Shelley basically dropped Christina off at the Dan Barry Fair Mall and then called the police when she never returned. She ended up sadly being strangled by a married restaurant worker she met on the internet. So his name is Saul Dose Race and he was twenty five years old, and they kept saying undocumented, undocumented, and it's like, I don't think that matters, you know what I mean. It seems like if he was illegal immigrant or not, or how he came here or if

And it was not so.

This mall incident was not the first time they met. They have met several times before the murder. They found emails indicating the two had agreed to meet this Friday night on May seventeenth, two thousand and two. Dos Race claims that he accidentally strangled Christina while they were having sex in his car in a mall parking lot.

Accidentally.

I don't buy it, And there's more evidence later where I'm just like, yeah, there's no fucking way.

It's sad.

I just don't buy that stuff, like accidental sex stuffs.

Yeah, buy it.

That means you're not like a pretty intune partner in any way, right right, someone's turning.

Blue, like, what are you talking about?

Yeah? But he then dumped her body twenty five miles away. He confessed to the killing and led the officers to the body. And that's reported to CBS News by US attorney John Danaher the third.

Her what nothing? I just like when you said the third.

Her body was found in a remote ravine in Greenwich damn Greenwich's.

Yeah, the town next to mine. Yeah, it's really sad.

And so during the trial, though, he tried to create an alibi after Christina's death by writing an email asking her, so, how was that date with the guy last night? And then The New York Times said that the email was actually expressing regret that he had not been able to meet her. But either way, he was sending emails after he dumped the body, trying to like make it seem like he was not the one she was meeting.

Fuck.

In April of two thousand and three, he did finally plead guilty to federal charges of crossing state lines to have sex with a child, which should be rape.

Yeah, okay government.

He was also convicted of state charges of manslaughter and sexual assault. He entered a plea under something called the Alfred doctrine, in which she did not admit guilt but conceded that the state had enough evidence to convict him.

Oh so he took an Alford plea. Yeah so you know about this? Oh yeah, they talk about these on SVU and stuff like. It's basically like you can also do this with like a speeding ticket or like other tickets you could plead NOLO. It stands for NOLO contender. It means like, I don't contest this, but I don't

So anyway, and then his mom during the trial was sobbing the whole time, and it's like, excuse me, Yeah, there's no room for that in my eyes, Like you're sitting next to this aunt who lost her niece and you're crying because your son is getting appropriate punishment. Like what the fuck are you talking about? Go cry in your own home. This is not the place, right. It bothers me. Shelley told the La Times, if I had my way, he'd be in jail for life. The poor

Twenty five? So why are you fucking a thirteen year old? Like, God, it wasn't the first one.

He's also there was evidence that he raped a fifteen year old as well, that he met online. So and he was married and stuff, but was cheating on his wife with children.

Yeah.

So he was charged in both the state and federal courts for his crimes and was sentenced to thirty years in prison. The aunt came with another quote and said to the News Times, the longer he's in jail, the safer other children will be just kind of a badass, it seems like. But while he was in federal custody, The New York Times reported that he was trying to

How about that? Oh God, take a break from dating.

This is truly out of control, and it pisses me off because I kept trying to find more and more information about Christina, and all I could find was articles about him and these cases and his lost stuff and like this article about him trying to date from prison, Like it's like I wanted to know about Christina.

Yeah, but it's also like why do the prisons not have those sites blocked? I don't think if you need to use Google to like write a report for school in jail or whatever, fine, you don't need to be on faceunion dot com or whatever.

No, and the people there said that everything's actually written and then sent to that whatever it is. I think it's bullshit. It's kind of like the Impostor episode that we did, the Stranger episode where it's like he was still making phone calls from prison and it's like, no, you can't let him.

Damn it is this happening.

Stop giving them these privileges, and it just.

It all bothers me and a lot of the articles it was all about just like like Christina, what a slug? Oh, this girl was having sex from people on it. I'm sure in Connecticut.

I'm sure in Connecticut that was also like like even more hyper.

There were all these chriss just like she dressed really provocative and her makeup was heavy and all this stuff, and it's like, we talked about this a lot, like what were her parents, like, what was her life?

Why is she so sexual? And why don't we think about that?

And like, yeah, So researching was kind of disappointing in how much information I found about him and then the lack of information about her outside of what a slug you know, no, wa, it's it's just fucking tragic.

I don't. Yeah.

Yeah, his wife obviously divorced him too, And I know it's an attorney's job to protect their client and represent them, but his attorneys' comments were so fucked up. So his attorney, Peter Tillham, told The New York Times that he was just maintaining contact with the outside world, and to suggest that this is in some way dangerous to the public, or that he's trying to meet girls is just silly. It's silly given his pass Like, oh my god, why

So this attorney, fuck this guy.

Yeah, is he penpaling with any dudes?

Is he penpaling with any like forty year old dudes, because that's contact. Sure, those guys have cool stories, can tell you about football or whatever. Such a good point.

But this is where my detective little thing was going off is and it says in his dislikes on this pen Po website, it said he doesn't like dishonesty, lies, and disrespect and disrespect. To me, like saying that is a red flag because it makes me feel that choking was more deliberate, like she could have maybe laughed or was not into it or said like I want to go back to them, like who knows. But for that, for disrespect to be one of your big pet peeves

That's one of your main dislikes is being disrespected. That's crazy. I don't like cilantro, you know what I mean.

Yeah, So to me, it's like it just reminds me of every bad person, Like because disrespect to me means that you're doing anything that's not what I'm saying. Yeah, and this accent. I mean, he's in jail for thirty years, so like good. But I don't think it was an accident.

I don't think I.

Just with that one quote, that's just my that's just my opinion. This case caught the attention of Congress, though, and was the reason the House of Representatives voted three hundred and ninety six to eleven to broaden the power of investigators to seek wiretaps for suspected sexual predators. And I don't actually know if that's good or bad, but I'm telling yeah, because I don't know if it's like Patriot Acts stuff where it's like, Okay, well now you're taking this case to now like fuck.

With all of our celebrities.

Yeah, Or is this good to make sure these fucking sexual predators are not?

We need Munch.

We need Munch to come and tell us what's what's what on this? We need Munch.

And then for some reason, the Westchester magazine wrote about this case and quoted the former manager of Dunkin Donuts who said that she used to order her bagels with strawberry cream cheese. So I guess I was wanting more information about her. And I love strawberry.

I mean, yeah, it's like when you're thirteen, it's like you do cheerleading and you hang out with your friends and you get bagels with strawberry cream cheese. I don't know if there's it's.

Just wild for a paper, this magazine to like go talk to the Dunkin Donuts manager.

Like, yeah, it's just so sad because this is like this guy knew who to go after. Like he's going after a girl who's vulnerable, who's like young and has had like probably most likely some trauma in her life. Right, she's not living with her biological parents and they were substance abusers. Like it's just really tragic the whole thing.

It is really tragic, and it's dangerous to meet people online. And I mean this episode's from season nine and now it's like so much of meeting people is from the internet.

You know, it's like kind of crazy to think about. Yeah, and it's like where would you go now to like meet people online, like not Tinder, like if you were like thirteen or something like that, Like, because are there still chat rooms like AOL and like, I feel like most people are on message boards like Reddit and shit, but I don't know. I'm sure there are chat rooms

And you know, I've discussed this before, the frustration of like the Christian right pretending they care about sex workers but just like fucking with porn hub, yeah, and taking away people's stream of money. But Facebook has more human trafficking instances than porn hub ever, will like, yeah, millions more.

So I know you're right. I bet people are just messaging on Facebook and shit too. I just don't think of that as something that like teens use anymore because it seems so old. But I bet there's something Instagram, I'm sure, and Instagram too, like, and I know they changed Craigslist, but like, yeah, Craigslist I think was the place. I don't know.

I it's just really scary.

Yeah, but I'm literally asking because I'm like, what websites am I supposed to keep my children off of?

Like eventually, you know, like I'm gonna.

Have to figure that all out because I have a really distinct memory from eighth grade where this girl was dating a twenty two year old really and we were like looking at photos.

Yeah, it was fucked.

I mean that's why it's like these men are predators.

And yeah, I.

Don't really know what to do, but I do remember this friend I had was dating at twenty two year old in eighth grade.

Yeah, so crazy. Yeah, I remember like a camper that I had who and who actually now is one of my friends because she's only like four years younger than me. But I remember when I was like sixteen, I went to go to the Little Girls camp and she had a picture of like her boyfriend and she was twelve and he was like sixteen or seventeen, and I was like, this is making me feel uncomfortable. But she looked really old, like this girl has looked like she was an adult since she was like ten or eleven.

And I was like, no, I'm.

Not saying he's oh, I'm not saying he's no I know, I'm just saying, these are the kind of girls. I think sometimes these guys you were also young, right, Because I was saying, because when I see kids now, you can tell they're a kid. Yeah, Like to you at sixteen, you probably thought you looked more mature too, and then you looked at this kid and you're like, whoa, you look mature. But like if you're twenty five, you know those you know that that's a thirteen or a twelve year old girl.

When I even see college and even now when I go out to bars are like out and about and I'm looking I mean, I mean, I'm staying in Williamsburg right now, and it's like, these people are young. These are the children. I'm sure they're twenty two, twenty three, but even that to me looks so young.

Yeah, but these guys, it's like, I don't even what it's. It's what they're attracted to. But it's also the fact that they can like tell them what to do, like a twenty year old might tell them, like her thoughts and opinions, but they think a thirteen year old, fourteen year old, fifteen year old, that's a girl that thinks I'm older and cool and I can control everything that they do. You know, on top of the fact that

Our guest today is Svu Royalty.

Besides being an actor, she's also an acclaimed author with a New York Times bestselling memoir Excuse Me called Happens every Day, And you know her as the woman behind the man who keeps Svu afloat and is constantly abandoned by her negligent husband.

Guys, we got Stabler. We got Kathy Stabler.

Please enjoy our chat with the very talented and lovely is the Belle Gillies.

Oh my gosh, so happy, so great to.

Meet you at great to meet one of my This is my first booking on this podcast that came through my camp connections, and I'm really excited. I'm really excited about it. I was it's so funny I was at camp this summer. I took my kids to the family camp and I was sitting with Jeremy Cutler and he was like, how's your podcast doing? And he goes, you know, one of the moms of the campers is on that show.

And I go who?

And he told me you, and I go, I go, yeah, I think we're trying to get.

In touch with her.

And then like I was just like, can you maybe see if she's interested?

And I love it.

Well, We're honored to have you here because the big running joke comment of our podcast is that Elliott Stabler is a terrible father and it's never home. You're just constantly like he's never at their birthdays, he can't pick up stuff. And then sometimes he'll pretend he'll be like, got to pick up stuff for the twins' birthday.

He'll never pick it up.

And you, without your character, without Kathy, there would be no Elliott Stabler and we just need to talk about.

That, and those five kids would be in foster care.

I think, yeah, we just literally did a live show where it's like one of these things where it was there was the episode Wildlife where Elliott is like trying to take down an animal smuggling ring, and you keep being like you come home and help with your baby, and you open the door and you think it's Elliott, but it's Olivia, and there's like this look of disappointment on your face. And we took a screenshot of it

It's Murshkar, Yeah, his emotional affair.

Friends. I remember that.

I remember that episode because there was I think we had like tigers on set. Yes, I think they're hyenas, yeah, And I remember wanting to go and see them. But you know, I was always in the house. I was never around all the cool stuff every once in a while.

So how did you like Kathy's Stabler Journey? Like start? Did you just like you just went in an auditioned and were like, I don't even know what this is.

Was it like you were on season one?

I was on season one, episode one, So it wasn't like I didn't know what it was because I had already been on Law and Order, okay, and I was on the mother Ship in a kind of big episode called Bad Girl and with Sam Waterston and I got killed. I was executed and I killed the cop. It was like this huge And that's the thing about Law and Order which was so fun, is that you could do these huge range stuff, you know, so because there was all sorts of you know, like murderers and all kinds

That was it and then that was that, and like you had no idea it was going to go on for like a million seasons.

No no. And I remember meeting Marushka and in the trailer and like meeting Chris and being like, oh, I you know, and then meeting and being like I then went to the I think it was like a kindergarten room. And I also before I had kids, so I was like, oh, play, I'm like pretending to be a mom.

Well, if we're gonna talk about this episode, I you know, we've both seen a sview tons of times. We've seen this episode a bunch. We both teared up watching the car crash. It was like such an incredible performance and I just couldn't believe. We both separately went on to record and we were both were like, this made us

Your head is real policeman, Like, oh my god.

It was just like I just it felt so real that I was like, I feel so bad for her, even though like I know you were not giving birth in it.

It was just how was it to shoot that?

Like?

It was?

So the producers came to me and they said something were because I never knew was happening. And usually I was a very minor I means, as important of a role as Kathy is, because she is you know, you can't as and Dick Wolf, I believe designed the part this way so that you know he was going to be a sex crimes detective and to sort of buttress that and to make it legit you had to have a family.

So it was an.

Important role, but not a very big Ultimately, not a very big role. I I, you know, come in and like be like you're not here, Like I'm over here. The kid's going to you know. And so they came to me and they were like, we're writing a big episode for you, and we're not quite sure what it is, but it's going to be something that's kind of a big and something that's like health related. So either I think it was going to be like she got sick or she's something was going to happen to Kathy.

I was like, oh.

And then I got the script and it was really the first time that I had worked very heavily with Marishka, and we were friends, but not like the best friends or anything. We were just like fred Lee on the set. And the script was great and it was so so the first day it's like an eight day shoot. Every episode is an eighth day shoot pretty much. And then the first day they they were like, all right, we're going to crash these cars the car that I'm in. The only way to get it to look like that

And I don't know if we knew that, I'd ever heard that.

Yeah, And so one thing that was incredible was that. And you're acting the whole time, and and when you're acting, you know modestly like well, when it's when it's when it's happening, when you like really truly believe you're in the car craft, which which I did. Like you something

Yeah, yeah, they could sit in one for a minute, but you know, the not seeing the fire trucks come in, they shut down the whole neighborhood.

And then it's there must have been ten vehicles of some sort with their you know, so it felt.

Really real and they just had to set that up like every day for four days. While that's wild.

Oh it's huge what they do, it's huge.

And then so you said, like you and Marishka, did you guys become better friends after that episode?

That was it?

That was like we were in there and you know, she's saving my life and saving my baby, and I'm and I'm very much giving her what she needs to feel like it was. I mean, we were really just locked into each other and we were kind of like, oh, Hi, who are you joining them to my wedding? I was getting married in real life right after that, and I was like, I think you have to come to my wedding. She's like, yes, I believe I have to. So now we're really really good friends.

I loved us before you had kids. Yeah, so what.

Gave you the No?

It was after I had kids, So you knew I love this episode because it was like eight years in or ten years Yeah, maybe, so I had had kids, so I got before I got the part. I got engaged, I got married, I had two kids all on the show. I got divorced, I got engaged, and I got married all one.

Wow, Kathy Sable A busy Wait, it was ten, So you had already had kids when you did this, so you were already like you already knew the process of like how oh my god, and you're just like in an ambulance passing out giving birth. Oh my god.

Yeah, that's part the pushing part. I felt like I was pretty authentic. And then passing out. I was like, I don't know, I never even got close to passing out when I was really having kids, So that was just like a.

Yeah, no, Well, I was just gonna say you had this marriage with Christopher Maloney for years, like obviously you guys see you seem to have a good rapport on screen. Tell us like, we've talked to a lot you know,

Yeah, we had We always had a good time together. We always I mean, you know, I think when you do a show every day for fifteen hours a day, there's just things you need to do to preserve your sanity and and and everyone's different, right, So Marushka I think gets a lot of energy from being super connected to everyone on the set and you know, just very giving of herself. I'm sure there's things she does to also, you know, keep you know, get from her abundance, not

It was just.

A mutual respect maybe and and also very professional, like we'd arrive in the set and be like, how you know, let's go do our thing. What was hard for me as an actor is that I didn't work every day. So every it's like it's like if everyone's running across country, you know what I mean, and they're just in a pace and going, and then I'd have to like run

And I was like, I'm.

Katie Stabler, like know who I am, But you know, they didn't because I wasn't on set a lot. So then it was like this big role and then not a lot of you know, practice in a way. And the first first season, I was on two shows. Oh I was on an NBC show too, on the Street. It was a Darren Starr show where I played a stripper, so and she was like stripper with a heart of gold, and I'm playing the other like cop mom on another.

So it was just like, you know, wow, what a busy year for you.

I was busy then. And then I had a b.

And moved to Ohio, So oh, really, you moved to Ohio and then you would just like come back to do Kathy.

And then so I moved My ex husband is a poetry professor, and we moved to Ohio so he could do his job, and they'd fly me in and they were about to kind of write me off the show. I think, man, I don't know that. But we were getting a divorce. I don't know if you remember, like yeah, Chris and I were getting a divorced and then we were literally did anybody know it? But I was My husband was leaving me. So I came back to New

It was like Kathy's Stabler got her groove back for sure.

Yeah, because I got divorced in real life.

Well so then how did you feel then when they wrote you back in? You get like kind of a juicy thing whatever. And then in season twelve you would just like find out after that that Maloney's just not coming back, and so the whole Stabler family is just like goodbye.

What was that?

I find out on the internet.

Oh my gosh.

They didn't even.

Call me, like they have the wrong number for you.

They're calling some wrong person and being like, hi, you have the role of Kathy's Stabler.

Hi yah.

The whole Stabler family is leaving. But it's like a voicemail of a woman named Susan. Okay, so that was it.

I was like, oh, I guess I'm not having a job anymore. So that was a barn But you know then I I can't even remember when that was, but I had think I don't remember when that was, but I had become a writer, like I so I've written four books and I just like I just shifted kind of into a different career. Yeah, not that I wouldn't, you know, if I had a friend or like, well now I'm dead on Law and Order, but well you know, but if they ever were like ghosts come back, you know,

I remember a commercials for Christina Ricci was in it.

She might have been in it, yeah, And I went in for it and it was like a twenty five year old who was the producer, and they were talking about me, like no shade on them. But I just did not have a very good experience with that audition where I felt like I was being man's plain too and they were like talking about me when I was I was like, excuse me, I'm like a mother of two and have been on television or in the movies for like eighteen years or something like that, so don't

Do today, but haha.

I was like, if I'm quit, I just don't want to act anymore. I don't want to go into that kind of dynamic where I'm just this sort of like they see me as I don't know, something less important than I feel like I am. So I was like, I'm out.

And did you always write?

No? Okay, no, no, no, I was dyslexic. I was like, totally didn't think I was a writer at all. And then this experience happened to me, and I was writing to my friend's emails about it and they were like, this is you have to write and I was like, I can't write. And then a friend Mine's like, you really should write this book. And so I went to

Yeah, was this was this the book happens every day?

Okay?

We were going to ask you about that that's on our list. So that's like a memoir. And then are the other ones memoirs or are they.

Fiction or the second one's a memoir, the third one's fiction, and the fourth one is like kind of like a manifesto sort of. It's called Cozy about the truth of who you are and knowing that and then locating that in the world so that you can feel good anywhere.

Yeah all that.

But so that was the fourth book.

Did you What was it like when you guys all reunited like last year to make that big episode.

That episode, it was wild. There was a one we were waiting for lighting or something and I was in the thing in the bed and it was very emotional. Actually, I like was totally. I was always crying on that job, but I was crying. I was. We were sitting there like waiting for lighting, and the was were like wow, wow, wow, wow, Like we're here. You know, we hadn't been this, yeah you Chris and Marishka had barely been on set together

It was yeah, yeah, pretty much exactly because it was yeah, he left around twenty twelve and then twenty.

Was like twenty twenty one.

Yeah, yeah, so it was.

It was very moving and we just shot it in one go and that was yeah, but it was it was. It was great, It really was.

So you mentioned this earlier with like, you know, the will they won't they have the Libya and like the viewers, but internally was did did you guys know that like that was never gonna happen or was that always a possibility within the writer.

That's such a good, such a good question. I never thought about that, Yeah, because usually I guess there was this thing that I kind of knew that it was annoyed because some of the script was like this is annoying, like you're always with Olivia, but then like in paternity, Olivia drove me to my appointment or whatever.

But in this episode, I feel like they were teasing the viewers almost that they were going to kill you, like that you were going to die in childbirth. Like I think that because like Olivia is there saving you. You pass out like twice, then they have you at the hospital where Elliot comes running in. We don't even know that you're there and alive. He could just be there, like you know, it could just be the baby.

And so then he.

Has this like really emotional hug with Olivia afterwards. And I feel like when I was watching that in two thousand and whatever seven and I want to let you know right now, we are not a pro Olivia and Elliott podcast at all.

We do not think they belong together.

I remember thinking, Oh, they're they're going to try to make us think that Kathy's dying now, so that Elliott and Olivia finally have a chance to be together. But then of course they didn't do it, because they're never going.

To do them.

We could probably talk to you for a lot longer, but this remain I want that. Yeah, cozy, Yeah, do you have anything you want us to like plug to our listeners just like your books?

Yeah, my books. I'm writing a new book. I'm writing a novel.

Nice.

So do you write every day? Is that how it works?

I've been a little bad about it. This My youngest kid, Our youngest kid just went to college.

So you're alone, your empty nest.

Yeah, a little adjustment time for ig, but no, I try and write from eight thirty to eleven thirty every day.

Okay, well we'll let you go. I'm sure you would rather be writing.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, that was fun.

I don't even know how Casey's going to cut that down, because like, that was a full hour of fun. Walter Wall Chat, Yeah, it really.

I loved her journey. I loved the writing. I loved her honesty and openness. I loved your guys a little Camp moment, you know.

I like him so I love for our one hundredth episode that we got a guest through camp. It's like so serendipitous and yeah, she gave us like a lot of cool info. And I just like that episode. I've seen it five times, but it really hit me different this time, like I I mean, yeah, it was a.

Jaws of life pregnant giving birth.

I get it's just because I haven't seen it since I gave birth twice, so it's fucking nuts.

But well, you know what, another guest from our one hundred episodes just came to mind that I was really excited for. I'd like to give a shout out. Oh Catherine, Catherine Moriarty, Kathy, what was Kathy Moriarty. Kathy Moriarty, that was it was a special get for me as a soap dish psychotic.

She was a special get for me. I was so happy to have for her life.

It was.

But I'm a cheerleader.

Yes, love, we're both Yeah, we really both combined to be very We can't forget her with our best STU but truly we.

Didn't mention it.

We still have to eat the pizza. Pizza, No, I mean we've talked to everyone that's like amazing and cool and we get jazzed every time, or we get like super surprised and taken different places with people. Yeah, but you know, I'm a stoner. I'm giving you what it comes at the top of my head. I mean I'm not even Yeah, like Isabelle gilly Is, that was fucking fun. Yeah, I want to read her. I want to be cozy. I like these little minute things.

I like that. And just like she's gone through a lot of stuff in her life and it's just like zigging and zagging, like move to Ohio, like got it as divorced, like decided to like pivot from acting to writing, Like I don't know a lot of a lot of cool stuff.

I think that she has a lot that we can and I.

Love that her goal is like, yeah, I write for me at thirty to eleven thirty, and that's like, what a nice goal. Three hours? Get it yeah, in get it in. Oh my god, So you know my sexy acting job I.

Have right now. Yeah.

One of the wardrobe guys is the best smelling man I've ever smelled in my life, like fresh, Like it's like I'm in a waterfall, in a jumpt like I it's the freshest law sent I've ever had. And he says he layers the sense and it lasts and it's not overpowering. And every time I'm near the scent, I'm like happy to have it back in my life, and

Well, people really love us talking about sense because when we talked about Bessie Johnson, a lot of people wrote in and were like, yes, more about the fragrances you like. And I will say that my brother, Colin, the joker loving the heath led your joker loving brother of mine. Colin, he wears tom Ford for men and it smells I don't know if it's just on him or what.

It's smell so fucking good.

Like he's my brother, but I'm just like, every time he's around me, I'm like, God, that smells good. I would never have Jared wear it because, like, I don't really like too much Colone, but I love my brother's Colone.

I'm not scared to say it.

I love that my dad grew He was a maniac. He like would go to the dollar store by aftershave and fucking dump half.

A bottle on it. Yeah, and then we'd have to go to.

A Russian restaurant to get wasted at brunch and it was like he would just smell up the car.

Motherfucker perfect one hundredth episode. We are not getting at all to the point of anything right now. At the end of that episode, I'm excited.

What do we want?

What is this?

Yeah, I paternity, don't fucking kill the mother of your children?

Is that a lesson? Is that something you guys needed advice on stop the post mortem of this episode. I feel like we got to talk about how it's wild to act like someone's only related to you if it's like through blood. There's so many different ways to have families, Like you did not have to kill all these I don't know, like fucking men in their sperm dicks. It's like the men in there together too obsessed with proliferating their sperm all around the world.

Anyway.

Also be careful with like online dating. I mean, honestly, it's fucked up somebody I actually just read. You know, we talk about it all the time. Men are a friend, Women are afraid that men will kill them. Women are afraid that men will laugh at them. I believe it's Margaret Atwood who wrote The Handmaid's Tale that that's attributed to.

You might have said it back you might have said it backwards, but I think we all know.

Women are afraid that men will kill them, and men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Yeah, would they say different? Okay, so two women in this episode get killed because they laugh at a man, and like, I just feel like, I don't know, Well, maybe my post mortem advice is like don't be alone with a strange man and laugh at him. But yet they're the.

Ones that are always like, have a sense of humor. I was joking, women are funny, and then they're the way you are, correct, Margaret, that would yeah, but they're always the ones that are first to get pissed and get diffensive. I was watching below Deck in a hotel, great binge watch, and some guy is pissed because girls like drunkenly were like called him a bitch, but like what up, bitch? Yeah, and he lost it and he's the bosin, so it's like you have to professional.

He wouldn't even look at this woman for like days.

He went straight to the captain and was like, I don't want to be called a bitch. I went to the Marines and was like, oh, okay, chill out, and even like then then the girl later in her confessional was like, yeah, if you get this upset being called a bitch, like you need to look inward and know why you're that upset and not like yell at everyone like we didn't do anything. Yeah, there was the guy that did that where I was like, oh my god, girl, you won't believe it.

And he's like I'm not a girl, don't say that.

And it's like okay, but you wouldn't be mad if like someone said, dude or guy, just like chill. Why is that so crazy to you? It's like the way I speak, you know what I mean?

Like toxic masculinity for the loss, Yeah I hate it. Yeah, like these leads a murder.

If you want toxic masculinity, that's not that horrific. I would watch below Deck, but well, watching them these men get fired is gets me off. They had to fire a chef for being bad, and it was like get rid of this piece of shit.

It felt good to watch. It must be kind of freeing to be on a reality show because you can kind of say anything you want to men because there's cameras there, Like it's like every you know, you're a bit protected. You can like say, but dudes are like it's kind of what you say. It's like, dudes aren't scared.

There was one below Deck where it was a bunch of dudes and one of the dudes grabbed one of the stews and like picked her up and she's like put me down, and they didn't like it, and he's like, what are you gonna do call like the boat police. And it's like there's cameras all around you, and you're not scared at all. This woman is telling you and you're like, I'm not even like they are not worried,

God, okay, yeah, I didn't want to go there.

I want, I want. Yeah, should we do it.

Let's pick our favorite most haunting crime of the one hundred we've done to celebrate our podcast. I really was upset when that woman was yeah.

Yeah, who's your favorite victim? No, I'm kidding, We're obviously kidding, we're joking.

I forgot that via text. No one can tell stuff. I wrote no way to someone and they were like, I'm so sorry. I just wanted to let you know, not a problem, please disregard, and I was like, oh yeah, no there.

I was like this was a lighthearted, like no way, jose.

Yeah, this wasn't like no, but keep people on their toes.

Yeah, you gotta keep people toes with the tone.

Well that's all right, memories. No, we should go, we should go.

We should probably.

Wrap it up, but let's do. This week's what would Sister Peg Do? Wake Cara, Which one of my recording locations have you liked the most?

I'm thinking the Jewish Condo.

Well, the Jewish Condo was fun, but I do like this one because I like looking at.

Your art behind you, like the little core Gee.

I like you know, your Lisa, your Miranda, you know you have good, good stuff. So I do like that. Okay, well let's get into this week's what would Sister Peg Do? Our weekly segment where we point you to a resource, you know, a website, an article, a book, something to flesh out a little bit more about what we talked about on today's episode, And for our one hundredth what would Sister Peg Do, I just want to point you guys to a helpful resource at RAIN. And we've called

Yeah.

So yeah. So like if there's stuff there that even like you hadn't thought of, I feel like there's probably a couple tips in there that everybody can check out, and like just tips on how to meet someone in person that you've met online, Like what's the safest way to do that, and it's not necessarily always just like a coffee shop. Like, there's some other tips, So check out the link. It's in our show notes and as always, will be on our Instagram stories and in our highlight

A lot to us, it really does. You guys are amazing people.

When we're on tour, all the stuff always says that you guys are the best, and we know that. I see you out and about, I see you out in the bars in the streets, and you're nice. I was gonna say about the day for some I clicked into a live yesterday and it was two dating coach matchmakers arguing over bikini picks or not in your dating profiles.

Wow. Yeah.

And one was like totally fine, me like yeah, we just don't agree, and the other one kept wanting to argue and the other woman kept being like, yeah, that's fine and we just disagree. Like the other woman just could not deal with that, but it was whatever. Next week we have another episode as always one oh one Okay, sounds like an intro class in college.

Next week, tune in SVU one on one Babies.

Yes, Bullseye Season twelve, Episode two A Wild Twist and Talk Wild one True. We're obsessed with all of you. Keep watching u s, you keep supporting good people and us.

Yeah, guys, come see us on tour. That's Messed Up Live dot com.

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Talk to you later Byey.

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Thank you so much to our producer KC.

O'Brien and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media. Dun Dunn