Monster's Legacy

Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done, Yay, that's messed up.

An SVU podcast.

I am Lisa and I'm Kara, and you guys, I mean hopefully it's episode two twenty.

You get it. It's a shita.

We talk about an episode of SVU, we talk about the true crime that it was based on, and then sometimes we interview somebody and first we just chitchat, catch up, rant about the state of the world.

You guys know what we do. Well, I'm at you know, I'm post soul cycle.

And today it was an EDM class, so I was I thought I was gonna hate it. I think I'm into EDM. Yeah, like it was really fun and she did such a good job, Rachel. But then after class it was her and a few other you know, class participants, and I go, I didn't know, I like, DVM, this this was so fun and she goes, yeah, it's just like nostalgic, you know, reminds me of high school. I'm like, sure, You're sure bitch. She's like, it's twenty fourteen. You know, it's just so nostalgic.

Oh my god, yeah yeah, sure, absolutely, yeah, that's so funny.

I know.

And they were like, yeah, reminds me of school dances. I was like truly mid twenties. It was just like I was like getting married. Wow, so funny. And the comics. Now, I was at the cellar and they're all like twenty six, twenty seven, and that was me, you know at some point. But they're all surprised I'm thirty seven. But I think it's the like I live an immature lifestyle. Maybe they were all really shocked.

Well yeah, I get that.

I mean they're like whoa, And I'm like, well, yeah, I've I've achieved a lot.

It would be crazy if I was your age.

Right, yes, But I think also when you're twenty like five or six, you think thirty seven is super old, and it's not.

It's young, you know, like I think that's young.

So yeah, I mean I was Okay, So my brother was in town. My brother, Colin show only member of my family that listens to the pod.

I brought him up on a different podcast just yesterday. I actually talk about Colin a lot because of the seven days on, seven days off schedule.

Does I'm both ordering the duck I feel also makes its way it.

Yeah, but I just think that's like such a good lifestyle.

Oh yeah.

But then, well it was funny because it was Ian Laura's podcast and I was like talking about doctors. I'm like, it is a hard job. I'm like, it's really intensive, Like I would never want my child to have to work that hard. And he's like, but it's honorable. Well, while we talk about the schedule, he goes. But even then it's like seven days you have to you're getting back, you know, recovering. I go, well, no, he's gay. He's traveling. And yeah, well you didn't mention that. They're like, you

And he was in Vegas and then he was at a conference in la and then he came to stay with us for a few days, and so wildly I had tickets to go see Anitra at this place in Wiho, and sadly it got postpone because of the fires, and then it got rescheduled to when he was in town.

So I just got him my ticket, perfect, perfect.

So we go and he was like it was just funny, because he was like, it is funny that you're as old as you are, and like you have two kids, and like you are at a drag show with me at like midnight right now, you.

Know, like I do.

I you're as old as you feel, you know, like you're I feel like I feel much younger than I am, and I try to stay young, but like you know, I also was extremely tired after going out with him two nights in a row, Like, I was very tired.

Wait, how is what else did you guys do?

Well?

So we went to see Anitra and it was awesome. It's just like one of those things where like the watching the show. I love watching the show at watch parties, like I love going to bars to watch it.

It's so fun.

The whole crowd reacts like did you watch last week's episode?

Yeah, I'm watching every week. Yeah, I'm into I'm into it.

They're talented, yeah yeah, and they're down to fight a little you know, like they're giving. They're giving, and you can sort of see like who people like, like.

People at this bar and this was like a big bar.

There's like a big club kind of in Weho and you could tell they were like huge. Arietti stands like even before she won sorry spoiler alert, everybody like before she like won the challenge, like people were like obsessed and yeah.

I was talking to some people that weren't that indoor.

I'm like that final outfit was incredible, the coral glasses, nails, the little suit like I was in.

I loved that outfit, a lion fit. She looked amazing as the lionfish. Like I was showing my kids last night because we read a ocean book, and I go, do you guys want to see the challenge from drag Race? It was amazing And I was showing them the runway. I go, look how much that looks like a Spanish answer. Rosie was like yeah, like I'm indoctrinating them.

It's crazy.

But then so then Anitra and this other queen who's like local, and I feel bad.

I forgot, Oh my god, look at what I'm holding. Okay, do you see this oh god, lipstick. Yes, but is it or is it a lie?

I love that.

So it looks like the lipstick that on All Stars they used to eliminate each other, but it's red and then when you take off the cap, it's a lighter.

I love that. That's fun.

It was a gift from a couple of gays in San Francisco that I love.

I was like, that's a gift from somebody who knows you. That's very good. That's a very good gift.

And this queen that I don't know, and they just kind of comment during commercial breaks, which is cute and funny. And then afterwards, so you're like, Okay, can I see the show now, and like they're like, are you guys.

Ready for anitra? Wait ten more minutes.

And then it would be other queens and then they'd be like, anitra will be out here in five more minutes. And it was like just we were just waiting and waiting and waiting for anitra. But Anuitra famously canceled. So I was just happy that she showed. She put on a great show. She did like a she did like a dualipa medley kind of which, by the way, Analise is covering us today for Casey, and Analise is a

And then what'd you get?

We got this delicious like bread that had like chili on it, but it was like it was like an Indian version of garlic bread.

It was so good.

And then we got this pasta that was super spicy and like an Indian spicy sauce.

And then we got a pizza that had like green chili on It was spicy.

This stuff was but not like crazy, like I can handle a medium level of spice and it was like pretty good.

And then the next night we.

Went to uh oh and by the way, as I was walking out of an etress, somebody said, oh my god, I love your podcast and I was like, thank you so much, so hello to you.

I'm sorry I didn't get to say hi. It was loud.

And then the next night I went to Chris Fairbanks had a birthday party. Another I was gonna play the Getty to you because I thought you would think that was funny. They basically had like they had a step and repeat like backdrop for a photo booth, and then they had like the Getty Images label like hanging down so that it like looks like we're all in Getty Images, which is really funny.

Obviously you can tell. But it was really funny.

And I met Chris's sister who loves our podcast, loves you loves our pod, and she was so sweet. And then the next actually that's actually the best.

It happens to you at the cellar too, like comics was like, oh my god, my sister, my childhood friend or someone. Yeah, listens to the pod, so thanks so much. We love that comedians know who really runs this town, Jay, Yeah, but thanks for listening.

No, it was funny because I saw Logan Gunzulman, who's a comic that you're also, and she was like, oh, I got a text Liza, because you know, she was like she she loves SVU and Law and Order as well.

But that was really fun that party.

And then the next day I ran into another listener at a trampoline park where I took my kids.

Was this the same trampoline park from the fire like evacuation.

Or franchise because that was down in the San Diego area.

This is the one that's in the LA area. But yes, same franchise, So you guys are now a trampoline park family.

I'm gonna say that I did buy the membership because one visit is the same as one month membership. So I'm gonna cancel it, but I'm gonna take them a bunch of times this month. Okay, great, great, great, great, you know I love a deal.

Wait did you watch the Super Bowl? Did you go to a friend's house? Uh?

Yes, we went to our friend's house to watch.

The Super Bowl and then our sports friends or someone else.

Where'd you go?

It was?

I went to my friend Valentina's house.

She's my friend through Rosie's school, and like she lives a couple of blocks for me, and she had a nice party and uh, like tons of food and some guy that owns a beer company brought all this beer and then we and then I but I wasn't really paying attention to the game that much because Philly was

How about you? What it was your Super Bowl?

Well, I I don't listen to rap, but I was in.

I mean, I loved it from the moment.

And usually I also don't like men performance so hotly famously, so I'm glad that Sizza was there, but like, I loved it. And then I was watching with fun people, the same people again, so Sidney, Marie, Amina Matteo. So it was Sydney's birthday party. So we actually did a painting party, like a sip and paint.

Oh.

I loved it. We painted Snoopy on turntables. Wow. And it was on the Lower East Side and I loved it. I want to do more painting parties. I felt so accomplished. It was cute, Like, yeah, I loved it. It was such a creative, fun birthday like I've never done one of those, so it was really a good time.

But then we went to the Cellar.

They closed down the Cellar for it was a super Bowl every year, and they have like plates shaped like footballs and tablecloths that look like the field.

So I like that. But I just but Sydney right away yelled.

Look at those Flair jeans, and then that was all of Instagram. Was just like Drake, you had a tiny man and flares really come for you.

Yeah, this is human.

Oh my god, those Celene jeans, those Celene jeans. I was like, if I if I had laid my eyes on those in college, I would have been I would have been love at first sight, like, oh my god.

But I I you know, Samuel L.

Jackson's in my top five favorite like actors of all time and so I just was so into seeing him.

I like the lamp post.

I mean I guessed when I saw Serena, I gas, yeah, Like I.

Just was so into it all.

And afterwards though, one of my friends was like, damn, like Usher was more fun last year.

I go, honey, that was a party. We're fighting fascism.

Yeah, she goes suns over, Yeah, she goes Damn, you're right. I'm like, he did that in the in front of the fucking president.

Yeah. It has never gone to a super Bowl before. I didn't know that. Ok.

It was so dark because like I was really into the pre star Spangl Banner performances and then like the star Spangle banner I'm into, and then when they cut to him and then like military and Gray, I'm like, this is so fucking dark. But like, yeah, you know, I keep like ranting and raving that no one's cool anymore, no one's punk rock. People are now like what is it called compulsory like compliance?

Yeah, oh yeah, Like people are changing.

They're something like that, Like they're already taking like fitting into the things before it's even mandated.

Like Disney is changing language.

Everyone's doing this stuff, and it's like whoa are we not fighting this? Yeah, and so it's just kind of like a dark, fucked up time and to have someone be that badass, does it tease being sued? Said his name while smiling at the camera. But yeah, So obviously all of like the imagery and everything that probably you know, a lot went over my head.

But I obviously had to watch a lot of the tiktoks that broke down, lot of the Easter eggs and stuff that I did not know.

But it was a.

Very black super Bowl, and and like with Grant, it just it was exciting, and I hope it's not the last. Like a part of me is like, are they just letting us have a hurrah before we're done? Like I'm so scared. But I loved how black the super Bowl felt like it was. And maybe it's because I watched with a bunch of black people, but like it just fell No. They kept they kept saying, they kept, they kept saying, I can't believe how black they're letting Kendrick be.

It was exciting.

And then my soul cycle teacher played the Super Bowl Kendrick with Samuel Jackson in class, and so I was zooming. I was motivated, and then she went straight into the Challengers soundtrack, wh.

Like I couldn't I've been uh well.

On Saturday, I went to two soul cycles back to back. Oh yes, you told me you were gonna do that. I not only survived, I thrived. The music was amazing, Like I went by so fast, honestly, like I was like, oh, I should do two a day's every weekend.

Were you You weren't hurting extra like the next day or anything. No, Honestly, her Tuesday class that was one hurt more because maybe because I went hard, I don't know.

But it was also two tailor songs of every album. So I was like in I was, I was just floating high. So yeah, I'm like so, But I also like Jalen Hurts is so hot. Saquon Barley's children. There was a lot of babies on the field, and obviously I love I love Taylor Travis. The three peat would have been nice. I have not contacted my friend Caleb yet, but I know I was.

I was wondering if you were watching with him. No, I bandwagon so fast.

I started cheering for the Eagles at the first intercession, like I dropped the Chiefs immediately. No, once I found out Jalen Hurts had an all female management team, like, uh, manager, agent, account all.

Obviously, I'm sure.

And then Travis of course said, I'm happy the President's coming, so yeah, I want you to lose.

It's like it did feel like mass that's yeah.

They were like in one of the interviews, like how do you feel he goes, it's an honor to have like a president come to the game. Whatever, And then when they asked Jalen Hurts, he goes, I don't know, he can be there. I don't care. So yeah, it's like it is, it is what it is. But Jalen Hurts is only twenty six. That is a grown ass man, Like, wow,

Oh wow, that's so fund.

Jean and I guess that position he plays as notoriously black. So then everyone's like the de I white, like running back did it or not running back?

Whatever?

The defense Twitter's me, I mean, not Twitter, but like Instagram. The meme people are so funny. It's really incredible how funny one is and how I feel, Like, Yeah, I cried. I cried. You know.

They had the.

Voice Sekwan Barley like Barkley, They like played a voicemail that his daughter left him before the game about like you are gonna win at and then it's like him and the kids on the field. Yeah, and then the next video of him is just like shotgunning a beer shirtless, and I'm like.

God, wait, I saw some video of a guy too that was on the field with his dad when he was little, and then he's wearing his dad's number.

He won. Oh, let's not cry. We're not gonna cry. I saw that this morning and was like, well, that's so sweet.

I also cried during the Women in Sports commercial, like it was Caitlin Clark and the gymnast. I mean a lot of athletes I don't know, Shakhari Richard, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

Cried at that commercial In front of the people.

And then well there was one person from Philly, and so I was assuming he was an Eagles fan, but he actually met five grand against them and lost.

And I go, that's what you do. That's what you do when you fucking go against your don't go against your hometown, bro, that's bad. Yeah.

And then I don't know if this is real, but I saw one reel where it was like a girl after her waitressing shift being like, I just bet my mortgage on blue gatorade and it was yellow gatorade, So like.

I think people were betting like the gatorade. It's like betting's gotten crazy. Oh by the way, coach of the Eagles is hot. Oh yeah, oh my god.

When they poured water on that guy, I'm like, I haven't seen a coach that isn't like a like fucking old man dating a twenty three year old in a long time.

Yeah.

And then one of the girls from Taylor Watch podcast, she's from Philadelphia and she was down in Nola and I keep watching her celebration video. She's just in the middle of Bourbon Street with a whistle and I guess that's part of their culture. And she's just whistling, and all these guys are dancing around or going blow that whistle or whatever, give him that whistle, and she's just blowing the whistle, partying and like, I'm just I'm nervous for the parade. I hope everyone's safe. I hope the

Are those little lights?

Yeah, the lights, the three raffic lights, traffic lights, those whole poles people were holding that were God. There were people in horses Philadelphia, riding horses in the middle of the parade. I mean, I really do love it. And I'm going to Philly to perform I think in June. So oh yeah, there's still gonna be buzzing. There will still be buzzing in June. And I'm I'm a bit I flip flopped, so yeah, I'm a five, I'm Eagles Now, I'm Jalen Hurts.

Baby, Listen.

There's certain things we stand for on this podcast, and then there's other times where you know, look, my favorite housewife used to be Lisa Vanderpump. Like we've all flipped back and forth on different things. I was listening to, like, I don't really listen to Bitch Sessha anymore because they

Who's your bottom? I quote her the most, Yeah, I quote her the most. I want to be at Bluestone. I forget it, right, I regret it. Yeah, And it wasn't even thinking about that one when I even think about the quotes, but I say, not, well, bitch all the time. Yeah, I made a nice clip, you fool, Like I just love her on the bug shot.

She likes the party. I don't know, Like she liked the cheese store.

I remember she went to the cheese store and how the time, Like Dirinda's my girl, like Milinda is.

My I was sad that we got rid of her first of the traders.

She came in too hot. I guess for that game she wasn't.

It's sexis and this happens on reality shows throughout.

Oh I thought she started shit with Iver, but it's my first season watch is.

But I'm just saying, like surve up everyone like women, gay people and not white people get voted out first immediately. Always it's always like, well, I don't know if I trust them, and it's like I think it's an unchecked bias, like it really Jeremy was like it just happens. They're just more frivolous. But also like the game players are stupid. The traders are stupid, Like get rid of the game players, not the wives.

They don't know what's going on.

Yeah yeah, wait, but who would be your bottom least favor housewife.

It's just tough because I think some are despicable people but are good housewife?

Do you pick the most boring housewife?

Like I know, I truly don't like Lisa Barlowe, but she is good television.

You know, And like I was thinking, Vicki and Ramona but it's like we need them. So like I hated Carlton the Witch. I guess, oh yeah, Carlton the Witch.

Oh my gosh, remember like Peggy, I just think it's so funny when the people that have been on it for one season it just are so forgettable.

I did also, I mean, this isn't a sports podcast, but have you been paying attention to the Luca of it all? You know, the Luca Dallas.

No, I don't know anything. What are you talking about?

So? Oh, okay, this is this will be fun hopefully all the sports girl is right us. Let us know if I'm describing this good or not. So this is all new to me. But now I'm like a number one Luca fan. I followed him like for life. Now okay, so Luca is the Dallas Mavericks, like kind of hero. He's apparently like the third best player in the league, like very good, twenty five, very young.

But he's a party boy.

I guess he's a little chubby, but like there's a video of the owner like someone taking a beer from him. But he's I guess he's like a party guy. Okay, but Dallas loves him. He brought the team to the finals, he's like a core member. Mid season, all of a sudden, they trade him to the Lakers, like a week or two ago, out of nowhere, and then people are outside of Dallas going bring him back.

He's not fat like.

People are people because because and then who they got for him is like this guy ad who's always injured in like seven years older than him and just not as good a first round draft pick, and then maybe like another person, and so everyone's like what the fuck is going on? So then there is the conspiracies, but one is like the fifth richest woman in the world is like a dumb bitch. Obviously billionaires are bad people, and she wants to move the team to Vegas, but

Yeah.

I saw that video. I didn't know what I was looking at, and Luca.

Smiles, and then I just watched clips today and it's like Luca did a giant long pass to Lebron and Lebron made like this bucket like easy layup. But it was cool, and you could see Luca's smile because he is twenty five and he gets to like passed away

So yeah, you guys got Luca. So it's really exciting.

This is great education. Now I know what's going on in sports in my own city. I'm really truly not.

I was not.

You know, I probably like a few days away from figuring that all out, like you know, that would have passed me in a wave like you always get things a few days before me.

But I actually had something to say.

No, we have to get started, but I.

Okay, I got something to say.

So you know, I love magazine YouTube content that's nothing new. And I was watching a criminologist talk about serial killers. So he was like watching. He was like watching movies and TV shows and then saying what's real and not real and whatever. And so his name is David Wilson. He's a criminologist. And he goes, he goes, stop trying to get inside these guys' heads. Fuck these guys. He's like,

I mean, I don't know.

I'm like not that it's the same. He's not a serial killer. But it's like, we can stop calling Kanye a genius now too, can we stop? Like I don't know, I'm just like like yeah, but it's like calling all these like just mediocre shittheads that got away with killing in the seventies before there was fucking DNA and like CCTV, and we're like, oh, a genius, let's get inside and figure out what's making them tick.

Like yeah, no, he said they're all losers. Yeah, yeah, good, I love that. Yeah. So if you guys, I don't I think it was GQ.

I'm not really sure, but his name, like I said, criminologist David Wilson. He was he was sexy, Like I really enjoyed watching him, all right, cool, I enjoyed it, but then I yeah, and then I watched people talk about their movie roles.

I'm a dork. All right, let's start, all.

Right, let's startry. I got so sports, but it was exciting the Luca like, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And this episode comes out on the eighteenth, and that means that this coming Sunday. If you live in Washington, DC or it's area, shit must be terrible for you right now. So come treat yourself to see us do That's Messed Up Live at the DC Improv And you can get tickets at that That's Messed uplive dot com.

At that same link.

You can also scroll down to Lisa's website and see all of her road dates that she's got out and about on the road.

Yeah, I'll be in Vegas, Nashville, Minneapolis, Seattle, Austin, Providence, New Orleans, Philly, and also DC.

And also DC this weekend before we're doing a Yeah, before we do our live show, she'll be doing stand ups, So get over there and.

Check that out. And then yeah, thanks guys.

Uh, let's get started, all right, guys, we're doing Monsters Legacy, not to be confused with Monsters Ball JK.

I don't think anyone I can not confuse it.

But season fourteen, episode thirteen, and yeah it's it's good.

Okay, yeah, done done.

We're at gymnastics practice, never a good place, set us to you. Yeah, there's a pommel horse. There's some want to touching. Yeah, there's a problem. The boys going wild on this pommel and he gets a cramp though, and it's really painful. So the coach starts stretching him. But there's a camera on them while they're being stretched, so not good. And then guess who sees something? Oh is that careesy? Yeah before he was caresy. He's a janitor.

This one is going out to all of you that message us on the Instagram going, oh my god, did you guys know.

That there's an episode where Creese is just like a like a suspect. We do and this is it we do. It's so sweet and right now.

People send me a lot of Luigi's stuff and I thank you, but there's just so few, so few that like I got it all I do.

There's not enough. It's just it's truly like wild. Yeah, I know the case.

Isn't actively happening, and I don't want the media to put out false narratives and rather silence than anything.

But yeah, it's all.

When the trial starts, I think things will get crazy, right, I hope.

Okay, So the coach is like, loosen up and the So now the janitor enters, Janitor Careesi and he enters the gym. He's looking the coach. He's like, can you go do that later? And he's like all right, and he walks away, but he's looking. You know, he's not breaking icon contact with the stretching. And then also he has a brunette bob, So if you're imagining Careese as he is now, imagine him with a brunette bob. And so now you know the boys stretched out. He goes

We can.

And anyways, so now Olivia arrives and she's in a sexy red dress and Amaro goes, wow, whoa, he's circling around her and it is flirty because what were your things that you thought they were gonna fuck and then they weren't there?

Yeah? Well I always thought like a vibe very like obviously basic thoughts were like, oh, Stabler's gone, the new man and Olivia are now going to have romantic tension, you.

Know, So I guess I thought that her and uh and I see it yeah, and tomorrow and.

Like yeah, stuff like this, he's like, I fucking her, Like he's like, whoa, Like it's crazy. So but it's a really sexy dress. Yeah, but she's with somebody.

Well okay, so then he so then he goes but it's too early for Valentine's Day like dinner, and she goes, oh, well, this new guy I'm seeing, we're not quite ready for like Valentine's Day. So we decided to do a more casual pre dinner. That's all fine, but that's not a casual pre dinner dress. You can wear that dress to a wedding that was a formal like wedding guest dress. But I don't know who she's dating, but it's probably not someone that important where it's like I'm assuming it's like I.

Think, but oh, it's they need a more casual thing.

It's just like you can't say it's a casual pre dinner and be dressed like you are going to an event like a fucking Oscars Woman's Nominee brunch.

Yeah, this is a Glamour Woman of the Year Brounch outfit. This is not This is not like, oh, we're just gonna like casually go out on like the twelfth or something, you know.

Yeah, so, but then it's so then you know, he's like, sorry to end your shit early. But while they're like just chatting about Valentine's Day, the man is still there on a stretcher, groaning like there's a bleeding man, and they're just like, damn girl, you look hot, and he's like like he's whimpering enrolled in.

Front of them.

Yeah, he's on his side with like a bloody sheet covering his butt.

It's really gross.

And so it's Alexey Bellia Cove and he's whimpering and he's barely holding on and basically ice pick ice, and he bled a lot.

And we're in the credits. We're in the credits.

So we're back from the credits. He's awake after surgery. He's talking somewhererow in Benson. He goes, I noticed the guy had Workloves boots and Olive overalls. They're like, well, is it revenge? And he gets mad and he's like, what are you talking about? I love my wife. I have good relationships with my ex wives. He has three of them. Amaro goes, okay, like what about relationships with someone you shouldn't have? Like maybe that's why you got stabbed in the ass and those no.

I learned that lesson.

Four years ago, a student's father accused me of being involved with his wife, and Amorro goes, were you he doesn't matter? He goes, yeah, but he tried to ruin my life and Corey tried to convince people I molested his kid. So then he's like, yeah, the old student's name is you know, Eddie. And when I went to go like talk to him, like the dad was throwing furniture and like shit was nuts. So now we're at the home of Eddie and the dad is like, oh

This is Us?

Yeah, I just don't care. Oh okay, well he I think he did stand up in Chicago. I was wondering if you knew him, because Jared knows him from Chicago. No, but I thought maybe you would know me. Yeah, no, clue I recognized him. He was also in that like documentary about SBU guest stars. Oh I remember there was like that TV special. He talked a lot in it, and I didn't care about him though, neither.

I'm sorry to this man, like I'm happy for his success, but uh yeah, I mean he's doing.

A good job. So whatever.

So amorrows talks inside, well, Finn stays outside with the dad Omar and this the son has like a such cutl sweater. He goes, I don't want to talk about the coach and they're like, oh, but were you stretching He goes, oh, not in that way, like, you know, not with me at least maybe another kid. Finn is with the dad and he goes, well, you know, Alexi's not gay, and the dad's like, well, we don't know that.

Because now they're married.

Yeah, but Finn is there too, and this guy's been clean from crimes for five years, so like, what's going on and they go, you know you could have killed him and he goes, oh who and they're like, okay, we know you see this guy every day, so like you know, we know it.

We're gonna find your prince.

He goes, no, you're not, and they're like why because you wear gloves like his blood's everywhere, Your blood's everywhere. So Johnny's getting shake nervous and they're like, why are you doing this? You know everyone's vouched for. Your boss said you're amazing. Your parole officer like what happened? And did something happen? Like what happened? And he goes what

He goes, that benefits me.

I tape everything because since I was accused, and so you know, for days they watch all of this footage and Finn goes ninety hours of tape and his only crime is boring me to death, like, I'm so sorry. A kid wasn't raped in gymnastics practice, Finn. So then Benson talks to like dozens of people. Nobody likes the guy, but nobody said he's a pedophile, so they gotta say

They pull them apart. What is going on? He screams, it's not my fault. It's not my fault.

I said, I want to be put in with that, And Rollins and Finn are on the scene so fast and guess you know what's set careesy janitor do dub check off. He the guy he's attacking is a pedophile. He touched boy scouts. So another pedophile has been attacked. Ding Ding Ding Okay, pedophile. So we're at a raiment. He's remanded back to Rikers. He's like, you know, he tells his mom sorry, who is an oxygen tank in court?

He hated the camp.

Johnny was homesick, but and when he got home from camp, he was just never the same. Benson says, we've seen it before, like you suffer the abuse and then you can't there's a trigger. And Omar I was like, okay, so, like I guess being shackled to another pedophile is obviously a trigger. And Craigan Daddy not having it. He's like, well the defense Kim, bring that up. I'll make sure

Let your detectives cook, like you know, they're good at their jobs, Like, shut the fuck up.

So they go to this camp and it's Ed Asner.

Yeah, who I only know by face and name and nothing else.

Yeah, tap dance for a comedian? And what is he? Why are we supposed to know Ed Asner?

He's like, and I feel it's like, okay, Casey, come teach us.

Yeah, Casey, I thought you lead in to tell us. Do you know at apples Well, he was.

On he's on Mary The Mary Tyler Moore Show, which is set in Minneapolis, so he's beloved here. Okay, So Mary Tyler Moore Show, I feel like is what he's most famous.

Okay, got it all right? So Mary Tyler Moore Show. Cool, cool, cool, And he's wearing a bad news he's hat, there's a log cabin. This man's guilty, but he's playing old confused man and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that boy. He was a Mets fan. He wore the same T shirt every day and then he'd like babbles. But he goes, oh, your cops, what did he do? And they're like, yeah, he assaulted too many and he's going away for a very long time.

So then ad Asner is.

Like, oh yeah, great student, good kid, and the detect we're like, well he was until you know he came to camp. But the guy goes, it's too cold, let's go inside. He gets them hot chocolate because it's good for the soul, and then Benson finally brings up the abuse question and he's like, hey, I gotta stop you. I know these days everyone's gonna be asking questions, but

How did he know? Yeah, she doesn't.

Give off and it's not like he could have researched her before in this like a Sebastian Valentine moment, Like what the fuck?

She shocked?

She goes excuse me. He says, it's all right, honey, you've done good. I mean you could have gone the other way too. So now it's tomorrow and Benson pleading Craigan like, oh my god, he's a straight up sociopath, Like, let us fucking get his ass. She's like, he spent the whole time reading us, like, oh ha ha, chocolate, it was all a fucking act. And I'm like, trust your detectives. And he goes, well, over fifty years and not one complaint. I mean he's never been like charged

He's trying to escape them.

Rollins is there, and then Rollins has a whole corkboard and it's bunches of mug shots and she goes, maybe not complaints, but a wake of damage. Dozens of kids in prison now for assault and rape and murder.

I mean, we talk about this all the time. It's just like.

It's like abuse, the ripple effect, Like our society is fucked because of abusers and believing kids like so cyclical and huge, and just to think about like all the people that are holding on to like these dark secrets and acting out and can't and then like no support and then are treated like they're the problem. It's like, so fuck, your kid comes back from camp and he's not the same.

Yeah, yeah, like what the fuck? Yeah? It is a fucking vicious cycle, so scary.

You know, like dozens of these kids straight from that camp are in prison for assault, rape and murder, Like what the fuck? And you know a lot of and he and Craigan's like, well a lot of sexual trauma ends up in silence and shame and they're like, whatever this guy did. This is ground zero for a second generation epidemic of like crime and fucked up stuff and so much chamage. And finally he goes, this won't be easy, but like let's try to get some complaints. So Rollin says,

So like maybe that could prove a pattern.

And it doesn't matter that they're like incarcerated and if it is, like prisoners don't really want to admit they were abused because hella, oh prison, right, But one of these guys he doesn't have to worry about chatting because he's on death row. Thank god. You know, there's got to be a perk somewhere. So since he's on death row and he's in Ohio and he sentenced to die in ten days, maybe he can be the start of this case. And who is it? But you know, canted

That's why he collects pigeons. Is that the whole thing?

Like this is an odd choice, I would say for a show like this, but I am sure they weren't ignorant to this, so like, what do you think that is?

Like what, I'm always very shocked.

I was always like, wait, SVU like got a convicted rapist to guest star on the show.

It's like, you know, they.

Had the guy from they had the guy the dad from seventh heven. I don't think they knew yet, you know, like they've had some people on that have later been convicted of stuff, but like, yeah, he he he just he admitted to being molested as a child. Yeah, I mean that service time. Maybe that's what they're trying to do with the casting.

Yeah, so obviously you know, has a past of crime and abuse and was convicted of right, but also molested as a child. So I understand the complications. I mean, this is the complications of all of it. You know, it's like really hard because you know, I'm thinking about the firefighter inmates and stuff like that and getting a second chances living more like rehabilitation, giving access like understanding the traumas and all of that. But then also, yeah,

Yeah, let's start a document that'll be question once so we don't forget.

Yeah, I want to ask Warren Light about this kind of decision. So they bring up Martin the ed Asner to him and he's like, I'd rather not speak about it. Benson and Finn are like working him, and Tyson's like.

Well, why why right now? Like why not?

Then?

Like why suddenly you're into it.

She's like, well, we're just finding out about it and what he did to those boys, and we want to punish him and Mike. Tyson's like, I don't want to think about any of this. I don't want to think about any of them. And Benson goes them and Finn goes, I mean at trial, the guy you killed said that it was a stranger. Is there more to it? And he looks up and he goes, it doesn't matter. I killed him. I can't take it back. I'm trying to

You know what we do? We call Andre Brower, That's what we do. Baby.

We got Bayard Ellis amazing defense attorney and we need his help deep voiced legend, baby rest in peace. And he is like, you need help with a death row case? Or am I doing Svu's job And Benson goes, damn, dude, A little bit of both fuck.

And he's like, he's like, so you're asking me a favor. You're not angry with me anymore?

And she takes the sip of her drink and goes, I was never angry, and he's like, you had a right to be. I blew up your relationship with David Hadden Hayden Hayden.

And is that Henry Connick junior? H yeah, Harry Connick Junior. Why are these names so hard for me?

So she goes, I was angry, but I knew that you were doing right by your client. And she goes, please look at Reggie's case. The DA said it was a robbery gone bad, but nothing was taken and the man who was killed had two prior solicitations for young black men. And he goes and it never came out at trial and she goes, no, Reggie mentioned like, none of it, and he's like, biting it for the bait, you know what I mean he's biting, he's nailing, and so he wants in and the timeline's tight. If we

What world is that normal? Who wasn't even the person who did committed the crime? By the way, that guy was an accessory.

Okay, So now Mike Tyson is doing a little more talking, you know, because it's not too late, and the governor can grant clemency and Bayard Ellis is compelling and now like maybe Benson didn't work, by like Ellis is definitely

And that I mean that happened within the year.

We are living in a time where there was evidence to come out to help a man and they decided no, not worth it, not worth it to wait. Yeah, He's like, you got any vacation time accused? So then Ellis this is the best. So then Ellis asked, Benson, you know they're in Ohio. He's like, you got any vacation time accumulated to work on this with me? And she goes, I have about fifty to sixty weeks worth. She could take a year of vacation and still be getting paid, like.

Yeah, because whenever they tell her to take a couple of days, she's like, no, I got to finish the case.

She never fucking takes the vacation.

We know she's gone on the Bahamas once and I love them in winterwear and it's really coold.

You can see their breath, you know. So yeah, we got to go talk to the public public defenders. So they're talking to this public defender. He looks at the file. He goes, oh, yeah, Jerry, decide in forty minutes.

What do you want?

And Ellis is like, okay, well you're you know, you could have gone and asked for clemency, Like what's going on? He's like, fuck that Rhodes was the only witness for the defense. He lied on the stand. He said he wasn't there, but the victim's blood was on his shoes and he said he did it. And Ellis goes, yeah, but the old attorney only met with him like for one day before his trial, and he goes, yeah. That

I mean, it is okay.

So then this dude they're talking to looks uh, looks up and goes, listen, people are entitled to counsel, not the quality of the council. And Ellis goes, damn like mean mugs him, and Benson's like, listen, we found an abusive abuse background.

He's like, yeah, that's most of the cases.

The governor doesn't pardon murderers because they had a bad childhood. And Ellis has lost his patience and he's like, it took me two seconds to find out that the murder dude had like solicitation charges against young men, and I need to prove that the defense attorney did not bring that shit to the jury but should have. And the dude stands up and goes, all right, it's just it's it's bad.

What do you fucking want?

Like, you know what I do is triage, Like I have people on death row for crimes they didn't even commit, Like this guy, a dan murder someone. What do you want from me? He goes, And if you think you could do a better job have at it, and Elis goes, yeah, that's what I fucking wanted. So they get all the infos. So Benson's back at like tyson seal and they need him to talk, like they need him to talk, give

She she is the master of victims.

So then he finally starts talking immediately like she actually doesn't have to do much, like just her presence in this moment finally got him to talk his uncle. I think him leaving the room too, like him not having to confess it in front of like another man is kind of like a little bit what gave her some of the yeah trust but also her yeah yeah, And so this is all really sad. So basically, his uncle put his mouth on him and he said, now you're a big boy, and this is what big boys do

These predators have such a radar.

And then three years at camp and by the end Schultz was passing him around to all the other men, and Reggie drops out of school, hitchhikes and ends up in Ohio. Dan First starts paying him for sex for over a year, and then one night after dan Forth was done with him, three other men walked into the garage worked him over all night, and then the next day Reggie comes back and kills him, kills dan Forth.

Mike Tyson.

Actually, Reggie was like, you know, I told the lawyer that the jury should hear this, and that his lawyer says him, it's best to just say you weren't even there at all. The lawyer is dead, though, but we need to get this information to the parole board, and we need confirmation of two tracks to like get this going. We need like the dan Forth information and what happened

He says, oh yeah, his mom was a crack addict.

Twelve year old kid with a long rap sheet, but sweet kid, and you know, no one helped him, but me like, and then a young boy arrives. A young boy arrives. He's like, oh my god, this is so scary. He looks scared, he has a watering can. I'm so sad. And then Asner's like, I thought you were working on the dupe check dub Chack. Why can't I say his name dub Check? And it's like, well, they both came

Talk to.

It's like, fuck, that's why it's all so complicated. Yeah, I remembering it to do death penalty debates in high school.

Me too. I wrote a paper about it, like fifth grade or something. Fifth grade.

Yeah, capital punishment, fifth grade.

So they go talk to this assistant prosecutor from that case. It was her first murder trial, and then the like it was her first time as lead counsel and she had, you know, like someone higher than her press, like the DA was her lead. What's it called, like a supervising Yeah. Yeah, And she said it was a good case. It was a good case to cut my teeth on a man's fucking life. The courthouse in Ohio is gorgeous though, marble, gold, filigree, green.

I love it.

She goes it was an open and shutcase. What do you want And Benson's like, well, no, it's not. And she keeps trying to walk away and like you know, throwing stuff, and she's getting really defensive, and she's like, yeah, I was given the solicitation information and it's public record, and I gave it to the defense and they didn't use it. That's not my fault, and Benson seems suspicious since she's like, well, there are people, and Benson seems suspicious.

She's smarter than me. And the mom's like, calm down, that's the mom.

I'm like, yeah, it's like a real woman, so we can't be mean about her. But I'm like, you thin lipped bitch, because she's a good actor. She's a good actor. I hate her. So then you know, she goes off and Benson's like, wow, she seems defensive and he goes listen, she told us everything we actually needed to know. That the lawyer was given the record and didn't use it. That speaks to negligence, you know, Is that enough and it's like enough for a pearl board hearing, let's go.

The mom was using.

She felt sorry for Reggie, but she couldn't fight her and the mom's boyfriend, and she told the defense attorney about it, but his lawyer told her to shut the fuck up, and the jury did not need to know that Reggie.

Was a homo.

It's going good, and yeah, I don't know.

It's so hard.

It's gonna be even harder to do this podcast with the new administrat because in my head him like everything that's disappearing and all the like things they want to hide and suppress, Like it's gonna just affect every you know, if you're not allowed to be publicly gay and then not like cases like this, like this lawyer, what a piece of shit.

You'd rather.

His client be sentenced to death then know that it was molested, And like just because you're molested, that doesn't mean you're gay, Like, yeah, you know, it's just gonna make everything so complicated.

Yeah, whatever, So the.

Pearl Board hearing is going good, but you know, the fifteen minutes left of this episode, so come on, use your user brains. So the woman in the cream suit speaks and and so then Ellis also, besides the sister's testimony, brings seven signed affidavits from og jurors saying if they knew about his past, they wouldn't have sentenced him to death. The man speaks and takes off his glasses, which is never good if someone takes off his glasses. He has something bad to say and goes. So now he admits

So now we wait.

So they go talk to him and his you know cell and the Borough board voted five to four against Reggie, and he's like, what the fuck?

How?

And so Benson and Ellis are now at a counter there's a lot of muffins, and Benson's like, what the fuck they read the defense was unconstitutionally deficient, So what is going on?

This doesn't make sense? What am I missing?

And Ellis was like, well, four of those five votes are ex cops and CEOs, and Benson's like, yeah, they were like rolling their eyes while their you know, while the sister talks. And then the fifth one, she asked all the right questions. She's this woman in the cream suit, she's being positive, she's the head of social services.

What's going on?

And Alice goes, well, guess what, she should have fucking recused herself for bias and not even been on this because he got an off the record call that morning that said that that Cream's suited bitch is married to Jim Harrison, who is the lead prosecutor who supervised the thin lipped lawyer, and that she cut her case on Reggie's trial.

Yes, this is a big dune. Done. Was that clear? Yes?

Okay, so she shouldn't even be on this because she's married to a man that was involved in the original case. Yeah, Like that's that these people are evil, putting someone to death for ea for your husband's record, Like because it's gonna because it's gonna like take away something from your husband's like like you know, stats as how many convictions he's gotten.

Oh but guess what ellis there's one last shot. Okay, so well, and then Benzic goes who was rigged and he's like, well, it's been rigged against Reggie from the start. You know, he had like a crackhead mom like, yeah, it's been rigged against him.

So now they're at the judge's office.

Who's like, wow, these are huge accusations like that the prosecutors or defense like hit evidence.

Oh my god.

And he's like yeah, they fucking suck. And she goes, well, he's had twenty years to work on this. Why is it like five days before? This seems like a hail Mary? And it's like, ya, it is, it is. It's yeah, the life they're begging. She won't grant a stay of execution though, She says, you can have the files and you have till noon to figure something out. And he goes, it's only five o'clock. It's not even twenty four hours. She goes, take it or leave it. He goes, yeah, thanks,

Taken because I think, yeah, because he's saying I don't want my pearshaken. And then I think he's saying because I know been happening, like it happened when he was a kid.

Oh he never said it before it happened here, right, yeah, okay, yeah, so then you know he doesn't like having his photos taken. He just does not like it, the photos or what set him off. So that means and there had They're like, oh other photos and videos exist, so like who else did that? So now they're talking to Janitor Carisi zop Check and it was you know what that last name reminds me of the other two.

Isn't that their last name? Do Beck? Yeah? Is bec in that? Yeah? I'm like, why am I so fucking right now?

But Janitor crisis like it was humiliating Coach Schultz videotape me and him in the basement and if he said he and then said if I told anyone, he would show everyone the photos. So it's like, yeah, that's why there hasn't been a complaint fifty years. Craig in Yeah, he doesn't want anyone to know, like he wants help, Like he just doesn't want anyone to know about these photos. But it's rush time. We got to save this man's life.

Years ago?

Wow, I didn't even catch that. Yeah, we need to find this shit.

So it's a full on search at this house and the little boy in the watering can comes out and Tomorrow's trying to like talk to him to try to get information, and then it cuts back to court and the prosecutor bitches on the stand and I can't wait for Ellis to get her asked. So then she was like, the the murderer was brutal as fuck, and I was trying to get justice for the murdered person, and I worked hard every single day and the fact and the

Okay. Back to trial.

Alice is like, Okay, you said that they were strangers, but they had a prior relationship. So did you know about everything about the case or do you suck at your job? And she's like, yeah, there's evidence theying to each other. And she's not shaken. She has an answer for everything. And then we're back at the house. So then the g I love his car. It sucks. So jeep Grand Cherokee pulls up and the pedophile camp guy and he's screaming.

He's like, get out of here, blah blah blah, you need a warrant. And then he.

Starts screaming like the house doesn't include the shed.

You can't be in my shed. This is illegal. He starts talking about things being an admissible in court or not.

And for for you just to be a camp director and know all this legal shit, like clearly you're a criminal. You've known yeah, And so Rollins goes, shut up. It SAIDs property, not house. And he looks at Pablo and is like, I gave you everything. I told you to do one thing. How fuck dare you? And then he grabs the little boy's neck and pulls him down and says, you sold me out, your little bastard. So Omaro grabs his ass and he keeps using more legal terms. I'm

And even when.

This became a death penalty case, she held onto these photos that she had. She knew she had them, she did not bring them up. And now you're perjuring on the fucking stand. So she didn't share them with anyone but her supervisor. And it's like Ellis got her. The sister looks satisfied. Benson touches the sister's knee, like we got her. The judges disgusted, grants a stay of execution. You know, death warrant will expire. Benson and Ellis share a beautiful. Look Benson and the sister hug.

We won.

We won, Reggie, the state will look at the case. We got you a new trial. You're gonna be moved to a different prison. He hugs both of them. At Asner, though, is in shackles. He's not in an orange jumpsuit, he's in a brown one. And he's like being walked into prison. And guess who's in the bars, in behind the bars looking at him walking into prison the janitor.

So now the janitor behind bars.

Is seeing the person that like molested him in the prison. And that's a crazy end because in my head, I'm like, do you think he's like fuck, yeah, the guy's arrested, or like, oh, I'm gonna stab him.

Like what do you think is going? Like what is this end?

Do you think obviously that's sick wolf baby? But like, yeah, I'm curious.

Well, I'll tell you the real cases and we'll see what's up, because I think Carreese janitor has like nothing to lose.

He's not gonna see daylight again. He's like he, well, he murdered.

Well, actually he's actually just has two assault cases. Nobody died of the guys he attacked so he could get out.

So I don't know.

I hope he doesn't murder the guy and get life, but we'll see. That's I'm sure he'll make his lifetime in prison very difficult.

At least. There are a lot of.

Cases that this draws from, So I'm gonna dive right in the first. Okay, the dub check part of this episode is based I think on John Gagan. John Joseph Jack Gagan was a Catholic priest in the Archdiocese of Boston. Maybe you've heard of them from a little movie called Spotlight,

He was.

Gagan was defrocked in nineteen ninety eight by Pope John Paul the Second. He was found guilty in February two thousand and two of indecent assault and battery for grabbing a ten year old boy's butt in a swimming pool at the Wall Fam Boys and Girls Club in nineteen ninety one and was sentenced to nine to ten years in prison. And I'm like, he got nine to ten years in prison for grabbing a butt. I think it's like there were other cases. He was prosecuted in two

So not a good guy.

But Druce had been sexually abused in boarding school as a child. He heard that Gagan had taught another inmate how to sexually abuse children, So for a month, Druce plotted to murder Gagan. He wanted revenge on all sex child sex abusers. On August twenty third, two thousand and three, Druce followed sixty eight year old Gagan into his cell after lunch and jammed the door so that the corrections

For protective custody? Like a lot, Like.

What's going on with like the dumb check stuff, and it was alleged that the CEOs had been warned also that by another inmate that Drews planned to attack Gagan. Also, in addition, usually two officers are stationed in that unit, but at the time there was only one and he had left to take another inmate to the infirmary. Supposedly, staffing cuts were to blame for making the prison like

And for me is it's like I wonder because obviously you're in prison for life, so frame of mind is different.

But it's like you can be in solidary because like I'm thinking.

About escape Dan Mora, but it's like obviously you want to try to escape, of course, but like now he's gonna sell alone twenty four hour surveillance at all times. Yeah, it's like you did have it good. So it's like you have nothing to lose, but you do, Yeah, you do. You do within prison either ben pop or you're alone in a cell for twenty three hours a day.

It's like, I but.

Mind frame is obviously different between me sitting on the outside like thinking about.

This right, and he's he's possibly not a mentally well individual. He's mailing a shit to people, you know, like I don't know, so, like, you know, he's maybe not considering it. He's like, if I kill this guy, I'm gonna be the most cool guy in the prison. Yeah, but you might be by yourself befriending a cockroach, you know, Like we don't know.

So.

He is found guilty of first degree murder for Gagan's murder in two thousand and six and was again sentenced to life like a second life sentence without possibility of parole. The following year, the Boston Harold gets a handwritten letter signed Joseph Lee Drews that said the truth about officer involvement in John Gagan's death, along with an address for

And that's kind of the end of that story. Quote.

Many victims are disappointed end quote, said Mitchell Gara Badian, who was a lawyer representing more than two hundred of Gagan's victims and other clergy. They quote, they wish father John Gagan had time to be in prison to reflect end quote. So some of the like I was reading that, some of the victims were like, well, he can't hurt anybody anymore. But also we wanted him to reflect on his crimes. So we didn't want it because this was less than a year that he was in jail when he was murdered.

It was very quick.

So now the Martin Schultz case seems to be based on a guy named Claudius Vermilier. I don't really know how to say this last name, but I'm going to say it like that. He is another defrocked priest, but this time an Episcopalian defract priest. He operated what was called the Boys Farm at Rourke's Cove in Alto, Tennessee, a farming community in the Appalachian Foothills, between nineteen seventy one and nineteen seventy six. He was known by the

Blah blah blah.

One boy did testify that it was understood that posing for these photos was necessary if you wanted to stay on the farm. But the prosecutor had two thousand photos thirteen letters that he wrote to a Delaware quote unquote customer offering slide sets for twenty five dollars and touting the skills of two fifteen year old boys at the farm. He was forced to admit that he had sent these nude photos and sex filled letters to some homosexual sponsors.

Is what the words are. But he denied knowledge or.

Responsibility for most of the photographs and said that he had shot a few of them for an artist, but also that he was using them for sublimination counseling with his homosexual clients, like in an effort to keep their desires in the closet. Like I looked up some elimination counseling, and it was like turning something bad into good, Like I think it was like, hey, if you just have these pictures, you don't have to go out and like find any underage boys to assault, you know, So that's

Are you fucking kidding me?

No?

So I killed them obviously.

But I did find I found Vermilier's obituary, and in the obituary it said he's predeceased by his son William. I don't know if he's been declared dead. Maybe it's a girl with the dragon tattoo type of thing where the woman got away, where like he went away and started a new life just to get away from his dad. Like, I have no idea, or he killed him. I don't know how old the kid was. Was hard to find information.

I no, I want to know, Like how comes Sometimes we can find an inmate. Sometimes we can't. Sometimes we can find how long they've been there. Sometimes we can't.

Like what is that?

I feel like it's state by state, don't you Like some states it's like it's not public knowledge. In some states it is like part of public record.

I don't know.

But it's also a sex crime, Like where is he on the registry? Like we should know if he's said or not. I don't see if.

Crimes against nature a sex crime. That's what I don't know. Like maybe that's something that happened more in the eighties, like where they changed the legislat like they changed the actual wording of the law. And was there a registry in the seventies, you know, Like I don't know, it's crazy, But in nineteen seventy eight he does get defrocked, you know, from the priesthood of the Episcopalian church.

In eighty four, Wow, I'm shocked they didn't make a sin glass.

Window in his honor. I know, I don't know, in who loves the church?

Yeah.

In eighty four, he sought.

A retrial, saying that his conviction and sentences were void due to a denial of his constitutional rights to effective legal counsel. It was denied by the Supreme Court in December of nineteen eighty seven. But then it says he died in twenty eighteen in kill Devil Hills, which is like such an ironic name for a fucking pedophle to dial in a place called kill Devil kill Devil Hills, North Carolina at eighty nine. And I found his obituary, which of course mentions nothing about his crimes, and it

I don't know.

It looks like he maybe got out of jail, or but maybe he served less time.

It was impossible to find.

I'm sorry if anyone knows, if you live in that area, someone who murdered him, well, I was waiting for him to get out. There's like a photo and everything in his obituary. It's crazy. So this scandalosious to quote wicked, Okay, the last crime so this case is crazy. This is like, this is where the whole, This is where the hole is scared.

I'm scared.

The relationship between the woman and the guy who was the lead counsel on the case.

This is where this comes from. Okay, okay.

So in nineteen ninety, Charles Dean Hood was was sentenced to death in the nineteen eighty nine killings of Tracy Lynn Wallace, aged twenty six, and Ronald Williamson, forty six, in their home in Plano, Texas, which is a suburb

So because they.

Were both married, they denied the fair the affair even to Hood's death penalty lawyers, but after it finally came to light, they said, the judge, finally, the judge is the woman, by the way, and the not that it has to be a heterosexual couple, but it is. The judge is a woman, and the DA or the ADA is a man, and after it finally came to light, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals rejected Hood's challenge in

We didn't know about it.

So like that's when the judge and the prosecutor were forced to admit it under oath was eight. So the issue is is that could a criminal trial where the prosecutor and the judge are secretly in love ever be

But whatever, what do you mean credit?

Like, you know, sometimes if they change your stuff, they'll give you credit for time served. Yeah, he gets no credit for time served, but I don't know why I'm even reading that in an article because he has life anyway, but I don't know no.

Credit for that.

So basically, I think this guy did do it, even though he said for years that he didn't do it. And so instead of like waiting for a new sentencing trial, he was like, I'll just change my plea and get life, because that's really all I wanted was to not get the death penalty.

So ada.

John Schomberger said, prosecutors quote felt vindicated in the sense that he acknowledged what we knew he did is murder those.

People end quote.

So the people being all kind of connected in terms of like, you know, we talk about this a whole the time with the judges and the priests.

It's like we give this like.

God like status right and power to these people, and it's like they are regular people.

Yeah, you don't know, shitty regular people.

Like when are we gonna stop giving so much power to just regular people?

Yeah? No, one's better than us. Yeah, I wonder.

And it's also like, if you're having a secret affair and you're the judge, you're like, well, I can't recuse myself because they're gonna ask me why you know, but you have to you should have recused yourself. I guess you have to figure out something else. Say you play squash with that lawyer. It's not fair, you know, say something, but it's the death penalty.

But like, how are you a judge on the bench when that's your judgment. You should not have a job anymore. I know, you chose to have an affair over a man's life. You should not be on the bench.

Yeah, crazy, but they really I thought this episode, I can't.

Even be a fucking idiot. I just wish I was so dumb. I wish I was so dumb. I don't think I'm a genius or anything, but like, god do I wish it was dumb and a sociopath. I think my life would be a lot easier, so easy. Yeah, I want to live like a fucking like who cares only me?

Yeah?

Yeah, Oh they're gonna sence the man to death. Well, as long as my affair gets kept secret. Yeah what are you talking about?

I know?

And if you just managed like a costcode'd be like all right, but you're on the bench. You've been deciding people's faith. But these people all believe in the death penalty. They're like, this guy killed someone, so let's kill him.

You know, like that's like, yes, their eye for an eye bullshit, you know whatever. But let's get into our post mortem because I have a lots to say about this episode. I mean this episode is tough because I mean what we've already discussed, it's like crazy to have an episode featuring someone who's been convicted of a sexual abuse. Uh, but I do, I do. It's a crazy episode and well it.

Is, and they just always do a good job of like people are flawed, which leads to the system being flawed and we have to be bitch, yeah, because shady shit is going down. Yeah, and and like.

Judges, these attorney I mean it's it's and the trauma, I mean thinking of that, that's what the never.

Ending cycle of the trauma.

Yeah, like not be like having this childhood trauma that like literally just of course you have so much like rage and it leads to more hurt people, hurt people.

Right.

Oh anyway, but Art.

Andrey Brower, I mean it's like a great episode in terms of like guest cast and twists and turns and like courtroom scenes, ed Asner, I mean, it's like a great episode of television.

Yeah, I know Valentine's Day has passed as of this episode coming out, but there have been there has been a lot of Luigi Valentine's Day content coming out.

I don't know if you've seen it. Many people have been sending have been returned. Oh no, no, but someone sent me a Reddit.

I did a lot of things wrong. I would say I did almost everything you can do wrong. Wait, wait, go on, I want to hear this. The envelopes have to be white. Mine were like fun, I had fun. Okay, that's to be just white lined paper. No cards, you need your full name with the address are are like yeah, no colored end, no stickers. I use stickers to like and he's like the back like being a yssive.

So those are the main things that I broke. Uh, those rules.

So do you think you'll write him with like your full name and your address and everything?

Yeah, because I use the address.

I don't know what I'm trying to hide, but like, I just obviously it's going to be strict, and then they photo copy, and then the inmates get photo copies of the letters.

Got it.

So it's just gonna take me long, you know, I have I'm gonna write again.

He has some court dates.

Coming up, but it'll be a lot later because all my shit was like red envelopes with glitter stickers, and that's so funny.

They were like, sorry, babe, you can't send you Different Island times take.

Cards to this guy. Yeah, so you stick I do have a huge brag.

I'm in the New York Magazine's Matrix, I mean the cultural Matrix.

Yeah, I have it.

I'm a low brow brilliant. Oh my god, low brow book.

Talk about the next name of your fucking album, the name of your next low bout.

Wait, Oh my god, you're in the intelligence sir. That is crazy. Yeah.

So it's called the Like Approval Matrix, And basically it's the last page of New York Magazine, what I subscribe to.

So I'm gonna post it. But I got to go into.

My mailbox and like take out my favorite magazine and I'm in it. So it's split up into like grid, so it's highbrow and low brow are vertical, and then like the across is despicable to brilliant. So I'm in low brow Brilliant with Chapel Roone, Lady Gaga and Porky the pig.

I see you.

Oh my god, I see you. Okay, I'm gonna posted on the Instagram. Oh yeah, it's excited. It's exciting, and you got to do a grub street. I saw it and I liked it, but I haven't gotten to read it yet.

In there with Porky and Daffy. Yeah, I'm under chapel.

Yeah, abortion meds like cool shit, I'm gonna get it framed. Why I'm annoyed because the highbrow despicable is like Elon Trump, like every you know, I'm annoyed.

But an rfk's in there.

Why is James calling on New York hospitals to keep treating trans youth lowbrow and brilliant? Maybe it's lowbrow to take away women's rights, I guess yeah, but it seems like it's like we're talking about her doing something good. But well, also, why is Beyonce indespicable highbrow? For Beyonce is ready to tour her way to another half billion books.

And it's like, but that's good. Yeah. I tried to get the tickets.

No, no, I'm gonna try again Friday because I didn't have a pre sale code, So I'll try again Friday.

But yeah, I don't know. We'll see, we'll see. Yeah, if I can get a ticket on Friday. Oh my god, how exciting.

I read that every time I get a New York magazine in my hands.

That's like my favorite part of it.

I love that, I know if and it's it was like a surprise, you know, like I didn't know that this was going to happen. So I'm yeah, I was really excited, especially next the porky. Yeah, because I'm a Looney Tunes girl, you know what I mean. Yes, and they're saying it's refresh it.

I love it. This is great. Wow, how exciting. Oh my god.

Okay, okay, but yeah, crimes are bad, trauma is bad.

Yeah, you know the usual postmortem takeaways.

Oh here, I'm going to show you the Snoopy from the beginning episode now that I have my phone out, but.

There's mine. Oh from the tables.

Yeah, the eyes are a little fucked. I think he's just a little stone. I think he's having Yeah, he's having a town.

Yeah. Yeah, Snoopy's partying. I love that.

But of course we were with fucking mateo. His buttons look like fucking three D. Yeah, of course he does like a full home mados. Oh my god, so fun.

But then some people like added ear rings and lashes and stuff.

Yes, oh my god, I love it was fun. Snoopy, Light to the game.

But if you've not done a painting party, you know that's so funny.

Because I've been lately feeling like I wanted to like do some kind of like artistic craft or something in my free time, of which I don't have a ton, but I was like, I want to like get into some kind of craft.

What could I do?

I've almost thought I was like, should I buy a piece of furniture and try to like rehab a piece of furniture? Maybe I should just start simple with a sip and sea, a sip and paint or what.

Yeah, it was fun. I like, I really enjoyed it. I I can't I feel like I was judgmental, like I thought it was lame or something, But I really loved it.

No, that's wonderful. I mean, like in Snoopy, come on, you can't go wrong. All right, let's move into our what would Sister Peg do? This is our weekly segment where we direct you all to a you know, to an article, a book, an organization, something that'll give you more info about what we talked about today and this week for WWSPD, we wanted to point you to the No More Global Directory. This is a comprehensive international directory of domestic and sexual violence resources in almost every un

Go give it a follow.

Thank you so much for that, and next week we will be doing I don't know why I'm out of breath. I've been sitting this whole time like I feel like, what just happened to me?

Was I holding my breath? Suddenly winded?

But we'll be doing a single life from season one episode two.

Wow, we're going back backon episode never.

Yeah, I'm shocked we did it. Yeah, it's really interesting. I'm so excited.

Yeah.

So we'll see you guys next week and uh yeah bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

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Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.

To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start Karen Kilgareff Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly right media dut dun