Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
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Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an sv podcast.
I am Lisa and.
I'm Kara, and we talk SVU episodes. We jump all over the map and then we talk about the crimes they're based on. Sometimes we have a guest, sometimes we don't. And up top we like to catch up chat. We are your bicoastal hostals and we need to stay in touch with each other and recap what's going on in our lives. Up Top I courtesy of one of our glorious listeners.
Shout out to our listeners. She knows who she is.
Got to go back to the Magic Castle here in Los Angeles. I went a few days ago and it's really fun. I really fucking love up close magic. It's the best.
Have you been there before? Okay?
So yes, that was probably my fifth time going, maybe fifth or six.
Oh my god, Cara, I didn't know you were such a magic head.
I'm a magic head.
But also people love to go and I'm always like, well, I'll go with you. And you know, I wrote for this show on Netflix called Magic for Humans, so I know a bunch of magicians from that. Plus I know a guy you know as well who's like a magician comedian who used to come and perform at the Magic
Castle and like just for everybody. So the Magic Castle is a huge castle in the center of fucking Hollywood, Like it's so wild, it looks like a castle, and it's a society of magicians also people like jugglers and mentalists and like other kind of like magic adjacent people can be in it, and you have to be a member. And then in order to attend, you have to either be staying at the Magic Castle Hotel, which is attached to it, or you have to be in by a member.
So whenever you want to go, you can't just be like beeboop and like order tickets. You got to like find someone who knows. So I have been lucky that I've known a bunch of magic people. Plus we had this listener that reached out that wanted to send me and Lisa. Hopefully she can give us other invites when Lisa's back in town, and I'll take you we'll all go because our other friend wants to go as well, our mutual friend. So I've literally just had different opportunities
to go. But the cool thing is if you get invited, you have to go. You have to have dinner. The dinner is a bit pricey, you have to pay a cover. If your friend is performing there, you can just get on their list and you can just go have a drink, watch the shows, and then leave. That's what I kind of like, because I the whole doing the whole meal,
and everything just gets really pricey. That's all like I really like when I know someone that's performing there and I can be like, just put me on your list and then you can just pop in and that's the best. There's a dress code. You have to dress nicely. You cannot wear any kind of denim. You cannot wear a leather jacket. Like there's it's a very strict dress code. If women have to wear dress or gowns, and if you're going to wear pants, you have to have a matching blazer with it, apparently as.
Long as it's not leather. I don't understand the no leather jacket of at all.
I know because they don't want moto. They said, like, no moto jacket and I was like, this leather jacket. I actually wore it to the Magic Castle once like a few years ago, and I had to take it off and I was told take it off, and I was like, this is like the most expensive thing.
In my wardrobe.
That's like so wild that I have to And they gave me like a blazer to wear.
I am so shocked. So women can't even wear pants. They can, they just have to wear a blazer with it. And men have to wear like suits and ties and you can wear like a bolo.
Oh there's zippers. Their issue is zippers.
Yes, there issue is no no zippers for the jackets. So you're not allowed to have a zipper, So leather or not, as long as there's a zipper, you're not allowed. Men were wearing tuxedos when we went, you know, like some people wear tuxes or my husband's always warn a suit when we've gone.
Wow, no rompers.
So yeah, yeah, you can wear a jumpsuit like I've worn a jumpsuit, but it has to have a jacket with it.
Like a blazer with it. Yeah.
I was about to say, because it says defined as garments, combining a shirt with attached shorts. Oh, jumpsuit is paying Yeah, rompers is more like the short. Yeah, so jumpsuit is okay, no logos, leave your fendy purse at home. Yes, it's kind of a wild like situation, but we went and you can go. So there are small magic shows that
happen in small rooms. There's big main stage magic shows, but then there's also up close magic where it's just like you sitting at a table with three other people and a magician and they just do fucking magic card tricks in front of you and they're so amazing. Like that's my favorite part. Like I love the up close magic, just sitting like three feet from a magician. Like he did this fucking trick, this guy where he like got everybody to think of a number and then he added
the day's date or something. He added everybody at the table's number and it ended up spelling out the date and time that it was at that exact moment. Like I'm sure that's some kind of fucking math trick, but like it blew everybody's mind, Like I did one once where he had me write my name on a card and he somehow got it into a box in the middle of the table without like ever putting his hands under the table or near the box or anything. And it was my handwriting, and it was a card that
I wrote my name on. I was actually carrying that card at my wallet until very recently. I like that you've moved on from the dress code. I'm still on the dress coat because you can. Yeah, no crop tops and no sea through fabrics, so no sheer.
Yeah.
I had to make sure when I bring people, I like have to send to something and be like, please read this. And actually the last time I went before this time, you know what I wore was the exact outfit I wore to our New York show, like an Alice and Olivia, nice sparkly top that's like very New Year's Eve, sparkly disco ball vibes with like nice slacks, like pants and heels. And they were like, give us one second, we just need to check on your outfit. And I had thrown a dress in my car just
in case, Like I had just thrown a dress. It was like just in case they give me shit because I didn't wear the blazer, and they let me get through. I think because my shirt was like very sparkly and like more fancy, you know. I just the blazer of it bothers me. I know, no, and it's very old school. And also there's not a lot of women magicians, which
is kind of a bummer. Like they have pictures all over the place of like the numbers and old times, all these magicians, and I've never seen a woman perform there, though I know some do, I just haven't. And even on the walls, it's just like not that many female magicians. I wish that we could break the mystical glass ceiling of the magic world and more women would be into magic.
Yeah, but I was actually just thinking about this this week, not even about magic, but about how like once a woman hosts late night or has this like the blazer, like the the going masculine to look nice is confusing to me. I know that's some people's comfort, like I just I like to wear dresses, but it is a wild that, like, I guess I'm hosting a show, give me a blazer and a pant, And I don't get why it's like so far from the feminine when like, yeah, a girl does comedy.
It's weird. It's just like I looking through all these special.
And like everyone just leans into this masculine wear and it's not for me.
I wonder if it's because like for me that would feel to me if I was hosting a late night show, I feel like I might lean towards that also, just because dresses might be like people are looking at your legs, people are seeing how it fits around your tits. People are like kind of examining your body in a lot of ways when you're on TV, and there's something about just like the pants and the jacket that feels like, oh okay, she's wearing a red suit. Moving on. You know,
it's like it doesn't call as much attention. Kara, that's so funny.
You think a suit is gonna stop people from talking shit about women's body.
It's gonna stop it.
I think it's But I think it would reduce a little bit, you know.
I think it would like reduce a little bit.
Then, like if you're I don't know, that's something I could I could say for myself.
Yeah, Chelsea Handler's the only one, like, you know, she wore pants, but it was still fun Like I'm thinking about what you wore to watch what happens live, and it's like, that's such a fun out fit.
But I don't see that often.
I feel people lean into this masculine way of dressing when we're in these male dominated things instead of fully going to the feminine. Because I'm thinking of Taylor, Tomlinson, Amber Ruffin. Yeah, yeah, they're wearing mostly suit stuff, you know. That's what I was kind of talking about. Like Mary Beth Burne's out putting out a special and it's like vintage little Versati dress.
But like and I was like, oh, that's so fun.
But it's so rare to see people go full out feminine when they're performing stand like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, and so is the Magic Castle. They want a fucking blazer? Yeah, I mean I want to see magic. But honestly, this is a turn off for me. How was the food?
What did you order? Like a lasagna? What did you get? No, the food is good.
I actually wildly got I mean it's basically a steakhouse menu. It's like very meat heavy, but they do have like a full vegetarian section. I got a bolognaise with impossible meat, and after I ordered it, I was like, this is a mistake, Like what am I doing? And I actually loved it, and I let everybody take a bite and they like loved it too, like it was really good.
Yeah, you love impossible meat. I know, why would you not trust the process?
I just think I don't really eat impossible meat wriggled up like that, like I eat it as a burger, do you know what I mean? Like I don't eat it like in a sauce or crumbled a lot. And so I was worried, but I had nothing to worry about.
It was delicious. I loved it.
But there's also like a truffle sort of hotcho at pepe kind of thing that I think a bunch of people got that I almost got because I've had it before, really good. And then a friend got a fish that they didn't love. But I think people like the red meat there when I've gone before, people like their steaks.
So yeah, that's that if you were worried about impossible me.
I can't believe someone ordered a.
Fish at the Magic Castle.
Yes, yes, that was the last minute move on her part, and I think it was a mistake. But yeah, I mean, it is kind of fun to go to something where you have to like dress up, like we don't. I don't know, I don't ever have to like look at a dress code for much of anything. And it's funny in LA because even in LA in New York, I remember going to some restaurants and being like, oh, everyone here is very dressed up, and like this is you know,
in LA. I think like even the fanciest restaurant has like a tech bro wearing cargo shorts and a hoodie. Because it's like I've been to even some really nice places where it's like most people are dressed up, but it's not a big deal if you're not, So it is weird.
Talking about the tech bro. I saw TikTok.
I wish I remember the person's name, but it was it was a picture of Zuckerberg and.
Some other you know, maybe a Bill Gates kind of guy. But it was like, Bro, like the jig is up. We know you're rich, we know you're rich.
Wearing a shitty, ugly T shirt does not take away that you're worth a one hundred and fifty billion dollars And can we have some fun? Can you actually like make us look like And so then she went back in time and just how old timey rich people dressed and beautiful homes and ancient Italy or whatever, and it's like, we would appreciate the billionaires doing that a little bit of effort.
Why are you.
Living on these modern gross gray You look like fucking shit. It's like, not only are you richer than all of us, you're spitting it in our face by looking terrible. Put on a fucking gold put on like be Mariah Carey, you lose them, or.
Even if you want to go quiet luxury, that still looks good.
Yeah, they're just like crumbled up, And it's like, we still know that you're evil in trying to own all of Hawaii and take TikTok away from us. You don't have to pay creators, but you're not cricking us, you.
Know what I mean?
I mean the fact that Mark Zuckerberg's head is not on a steak aka Ned what's his name? Ned Stark style is what's wrong with society. You hate Mark Zuckerberg. I think he should be tried for war crimes. I think we should pull him out of his house and murder him in front of his children. And that is what I believe. So you can leave that in I know the editors are probably scared. That is what I believe. Watch I'm gonna be dead. I'm gonna be like the Boeing guy, just kill in my car. They're gonna be
like she was upset. Yes, you're gonna be the Boeing whistleblower. Watch out, Lisa, watch your back. Are they even gonna try to do something? I mean, honey, you can't have doors and wheels off your plane, but you can you can just murder the key witness.
It's crazy.
It was so it's like everything. I always say this, but it's so house of cards. I'm always like, oh my god, I can't believe it.
Well, we always look to Russia. It's like, wow, it's crazy, and it's like, what's happening here? And loudly that's an epscene and.
Of this No.
Jared is reading a book about Stalin and he says the same thing. He's reading a book about Stalin and he's like, you know, it used to just be like you can't say anything bad about the common and then they take you out to a field and shoot you, and like this kind of shit's happening.
It feels like sometimes here too.
Yeah, publicly, I mean this Boeing thing is so public that is zero fear to do that. Just like in the middle of a trial, that's an SVU episode.
I know.
I bet next.
Year or even in jail, I bet I bet this season or next season, there will be a Boeing episode because mid trial. With the nation obsessed with true crime like we are, I don't know how they think they're gonna get away with it, but they are.
Yeah.
Oh, you know, we were talking about la school whatever in our personal life. Schools are hard, and I didn't realize In New York. We have friends here. Their kids just didn't get into preschool. There's just not enough slots. So that's that. Yeah, but thank god the National Guard is on the train tracks. Yeah god, you know, yeah, the National Guards there, right, And then there's children that just yeah, no school for you.
Yeah here too.
You cannot get into your homeschool, and they'll just be like, well, we'll send you to another school. But it could be along like a way away, like it's not your neighborhood school.
Like it's crazy, it's crazy. I didn't realize how.
For granted I took my childhood, I go to that school because it's close to my parents, and I get a great education. Hell yes, yeah, just to think that, like our friends are moving out of the city because they can't afford child's care and that he didn't get into preschool so they're truly moving.
Yeah, what, it's insanity. What well, I was just gonna say.
Part of it is because a lot of people are choosing private schools and they don't support the public schools, you know, especially in wealthy cities like you know, and not just trickles.
Down these fucking Christian fanatics, Like it's wild to watch them win. It's really wild. It's all connected. The I'm sorry, like the turn back to homeschooling and staying on all of that.
That is not an accident.
That it's coinciding that in Missouri now you can't get divorced if you're pregnant. Oh my god, that article that you would Did you send that to me or just post it on your Instagram? I just reposted it. But I remember when it was all getting passed. That made me shiver. That was crazy, you know what I mean? Like, this isn't like, oh, I just want to homeschool my kid. All those videos about homeschooling kids always in the last ten seconds, it's I can't have them with all the queers in public.
You know. It always there's always a twist.
It's never like, hey, my kid's a little weird, they're not that social, they had a hard time in school, and it just works better for our family to be here. It never ends there. And then it's like and we have to make sure that we pray every day. There's always a twist at the end. And it's just really scary. They've been trying to close public schools forever and it's succeeded.
Well.
I was really talking about people that are just like paying thirty five thousand dollars a year for their kids to go to like upper crust like kindergarten or whatever. But I did not think about the homeschooling part of it either.
But yeah, you're right, there's a comic here.
A good friend, I would say, and we were hanging out and his son just got into the best of the best school in Manhattan and it's going to be sixty eight thousand dollars a year starting with kindergarten.
What yes, yep, that's insanity. That's just like a level of money that I can't I can't even.
Well, and then they all pretend that all kids have equal footing and if you just work hard, you can make it while your kids at a sixty eight thousand dollars a year kindergarten. Yeah, it's truly. Why does this always happen? We can't evolve into dystopia?
Why do we always keep talking about how terrible the world is?
But someone was like, oh, are you going to see the new show or movie called Civil War?
I go absolutely not. Oh the Kirsten Duncet. Yeah.
I didn't even know what it is, but I know I'm not gonna watch it. It's basically a civil war here in America. It's like it's too close to home. It feels like something that could really happen.
I think that's sickly why they probably made it, why people will go see it. But listen, let's let's turn away from all this darkness and turn to our favorite show of light and Rainbow's Law and Order SVU.
Yeah, such a relaxing good time. Yeah.
Also, we did not make it to the tent at Rockefeller Center to celebrate the twenty fifth year of SVU. But I would like to say that they were selling you know bracelets, and they all went to the Joyful Heart Foundation, Murshka's charity. And I hope so many people want bracelets. But I did feel smug, I did feel cool. Our listeners did it first.
Yes, you guys have been making friendship bracelets for months and months. I literally just found my what would Olivia? My WWOBD bracelet that somebody made for me in my kid's room.
No worry, girl, I'm still saving Mother's juice for you.
I got it. I want it. I can't wait.
It was in Liza's car. And by the way, that's a Toronto listener. I think that gave us Mother's juice and I want it so badly. And it's has literally moved from It has come from Toronto back to La moved with Lee's across the country and I will be collecting it when I see her there at the end of this month.
Oh my god, I cannot wait. Wait am I seen you end of March or end of April.
And of April. But this episode comes out April two. Baby Rosie's being my god, Oh my god, time is a fly.
Time is crazy.
It just really sucks that you're gonna come here right before I'm gonna like fly back to La with.
You right now.
Okay, guys, we're gonna get started. Great episode coming at you.
Oh right.
We will be doing the episode today called Missing Pieces, Season thirteen, episode five, And there's gonna be some missing pieces in this episode as well, because we start in the middle of like a character that's introduced at a different time whatever. But you know, it's a fresh Tomorrow season October twenty eleven and done.
Done. We're at a Halloween party.
Baby, there's a face paint section balloon animals, and I want to bring up I think balloon designs and blue animals are coming back because I did book a hotel room recently at like a chic you know, like a fun little boutique hotel, and one of the extras that you can choose for your room is balloon floral bouquets. Why it's an extra forty five dollars what yeah for a bouquet of balloon flowers? Because I sent it to my friend, I was like, should I spring extra for this?
Ha ha?
Well, because then I'm sorry to the listeners that are annoyed, but I think this has to do. It's a Toronto room because I went, and I was like, you know what, I should go check out hotels right now for Taylor Swift.
Like I know it's November, but like, why am I waiting? And then I went and oh.
I would say, seventy five percent of hotels are fully sold out.
Oh my god.
But there was like Hilton that's a ten minute walk to the stadium. And then I looked and I was like, of course there's no rooms available.
What was I thinking?
But I found a hotel that I was familiar with because I brunched there once. But all of these hotels like good, I would put my avails and then they would say, well how about next weekend? And then the only ones that are available at certain hotels are like a minimum fifteen, eighteen, nineteen.
Hundred dollars a night.
Wow.
I know that's how she's stimulating the economy and all these places.
I know the capitalism of it all is really tough, but I got a room at least, and I think, I don't know. I think this Taylor Swift concert's actually gonna help me save money overall, because I have to not spend money because also, gotcha, two of our friends are having fortieth birthday parties that are travel based in September.
Yes, so that.
Is three huge fall trips for me where I am just like, oh, maybe next time I want to buy a little troll, I won't, I'll chill out. Yeah, maybe next time I see a little nick knack or I don't know, a tank top I don't need. I'll think about this hotel. But anyways, but yeah, the hotel I book, so.
You can order a balloon bouquet.
Wild.
I did not do that for extra money, is wild? I just don't don't. I don't know who that's for.
I guess if like you really want to surprise your girlfriend who's a clown enthusiast.
Even like kids, like I don't know, even if you had kids, it's like forty five dollars for balloon animal Like no.
Well that's what I mean.
I think it's like coming back, Like because my friend in high school, her mom did all these balloon centerpieces and center she did bar and bot mitz was mostly one time we did Disney on ice. I got to help, but cool balloon stuff, like, I don't know, I think it might be coming back. Okay, why else would I hip hotel in Toronto be offering a balloon bouquet.
That's like so out there for me.
Yeah, it's definitely something another hotel's not offering.
Say that.
Yeah, it's true. So Calvin's in this episode. For those who don't know, there's an episode with Maria Bello and this is Maria Bello's son, and basically Benson shows up and is like, I need to talk to your mother and she's like why, what's going on and basically reveals that her mother was a rape victim and she is the product of that rape and then she realizes why her mother hated her, and then she kills the rapist.
She's on the lamb, and she leaves her son with Benson, and so that's the that's the tale.
And he thinks he's a little too old for this.
Party, and then Grandma Grandpa there and they're just like, ah, don't be rude, and Benson's like, nah, he's right, what do you want to do?
Calvin?
And then we cut to Tomorrow and his daughter Zara, and she has the most enviable costume of all time, Jasmine the Princess. Amorrow has vampire teeth and they're taking photos on a very decorated Porsche and Tomorrow does not like the jasmine costume. He's like, she's too young. Why is her midge showing? And his mom's like whatever, she likes it. And she pets Zara's head and it's like shut up, and he's like, why can't she just be a ghost. And then it goes straight too, I don't
want you eating all this junk. I mean, why does he ruin everything everything? And then his mom is like, yeah, but you ate so much candy when you were a kid and you always threw up, and he goes, yeah, that's my point, mo, And that is a funny moment.
That is a funny moment. I do like that.
Where it's like, yeah, I don't want my kid to puke. I remember feeling like shit. So then Rollin's and Finn they aren't playing trick or treat games.
They're at work and they're looking for pedophiles.
So you know, they knock on the door, they trick or treat and they make sure that the sex offenders are.
Not tricking and treating with the children.
I wonder if this is real, Like do you think that the cops go out on Halloween and like double check that like sex offenders are not answering.
Hold, I'm gonna google it. I don't even know what to google. Do cops do knock and knocks?
Do cops check on pedophiles on Halloween?
While US Marshall's partner with officers and detectives throughout the year, the Halloween holiday presents a unique opportunity for law enforcement agencies to work as a team to identify and locate non compliance sex offenders.
Oh when Halloween means a personal visit from the police. An article in The Atlantic registered sex offenders are subject to special rules on Halloween night, it says, yeah.
And Atlanta has an article law enforcement keeps an eye close. There's all these local news articles. Here's one in Jersey. So yeah, I think it happens. Yeah, wow, Yeah, there's a CNN on Halloween. Some states take extra safety measures to keep sex offenders away from kids. Oh my god, this county is Butts County. How dare you so it is real? It is real?
Yeah? Oh? Whoa.
In Missouri, some sex offenders are required to post a sign stating no candy or treats at this residence. Okay, that's good. I thought the sign said sex offender. Like I'm glad. It just says, I don't do candy. Yeah, you do not want to come in here.
Virginia keeps them by holds mandatory educational sessions and drug and alcohol screenings on Halloween.
Oh but several sex offenders sued the city of Jacksonville, Florida, because they said it's unconstitutional. But yeah, wild wow, I mean not wild, but it makes sense. I mean, the kids are coming directly to your house.
In California, it's called Operation Boo, where they have officers go.
Check up on them. Wow.
Wow, Although what the link to Operation Boo is dead, so maybe this is a ten year old article, so maybe it's maybe not anymore. But wild wow, Okay, interesting.
So they knock knock, and heels I'm not supposed to open the door, which is suspicious, like if it was a kid, you could just be silent. So yeah, it's like a crazy answer, but he opens the door. Rollins calls him a good boy, he knows the rules, he knows the drill, and then fingas, see you next to your baby, And so we cut to our SVU girlfriend who has been in three episodes and in the show Insecure.
Her name is Lisa Joyce.
She's been in the episode Avatar, and she was in an episode if I knew then what I know now obviously a Warren Light era episode title. Yes, So she's running into a bodega and being chatty with the guy. She wants diapers, but then she goes, well, my baby skin is sensitive.
Do you have any organic? You're at a bodega, babe? What?
And I get now, like, shit's so gentrified that there are like fancy or bodega's little stores with organic, but I saw this bodega. This is for emergencies only when you got to run and like, your you know what, I mean, what are we doing here?
She's like, well, can you just.
Check in the back, And it's like you don't think this guy knows the inventory?
Like this is his life, dude. Like the back is where.
They have all the expensive diapers that they're not putting out, Like that's so crazy.
And the bodega does pass the vibe check.
There is a pumpkin decoration, and you know, it always makes me mad when they don't, like on SVU acknowledge holidays, So I'm really glad that they are. Yeah, and now it cuts back to Finn and Rollins and you know, another knock knock, but this pedophile like opens the door dressed like a full clown with a bowl of candy, just like you fool.
They call him Bozo and they haul Assassin.
And so while our girl is checking out with diapers, we're back to her.
She's looking towards the door.
Then she screams and runs out, and now it cuts to Tomorrow a Zara trick or treating, and she says thank you in a super cute voice to a woman who gives her candy, and then Tomorrow asked what she got, she says candy corn, which both Kara and I do really like candy corn. Yes, but I wouldn't say it's our number one favorite, and Amarro goes, oh, that's my favorite. This dude just wants us not to like, like he is so hot, and it's like, can you just stop having the worst thing of everything?
But whatever, he gets a paying sodaes Benson.
They all have to go to work, so she ditches Calvin, he ditches Zara, and it's time to get to work. So Lisa Joyce is crying to uniform cops that someone stole her car and stole her baby, and someone has her son.
And it hits the credits. We're back and it's all hands on deck.
Cragan's in a trench coat and Benson and Tomorrow are trailing behind. Tons of cops are working, and Craigan's like, fuck, a baby missing on Halloween?
Any good news?
No?
You work at SVU, Like, but yeah, so it was a three month old. He was in the car. We have no footage, no evidence, no nothing. Craigan also doesn't like that they would even leave the baby in the car. He goes, who are these people anyway? So it's Tina and Tim their Taurus. They drove down from Buffalo to see the Halloween parade, which I famously thought I was booked to co host for the news, but I was just there for a news interview to say, look at
my costume, and that was humiliating. I told a lot of people to tune in. Okay, So where was the dad? The dad was looking at the rental apartment that they like booked for this trip that they had, and the mom though, she's not going to the precinct without the dad, like she's just she's not doing it. Craigan says, well, she has no choice. Take her in but she's smoking a cigarette. She hasn't talked to Tim in an hour,
she's not calling her back, so she's flipping out. So then the bodega dude is like, she's a good mother. She wanted organic diapers. That's all it takes. It's like, you didn't even see the baby. Yeah, But he says that she was looking out the door and like, you know, looked like she was in a hurry, but he did not see the car. So they are forcing her to the station, and right in that moment, Tim runs in.
She explains everything to him. He flips out. He's about to fucking attack her in front of all these cops. Amaro pulls them away. Benson takes the girl and she's like, I'm the only one who can calm him down. And Benson's like, I think tomorrow can do a good job, and she's like, no, he doesn't like cops. And it's like, ohkay, hey, no one else does either get in line to him.
So she's getting stressed with all the questions and Benson goes, listen, you might think details don't matter, but they matter, and it could help us find your son, Ali. We need your help. Let's go. So the dad tells tomorrow that he was getting screwed out of two hundred dollars because he showed up late to the rental and there were already six gay guys staying there. I don't know why it matters, you know, if they're gay or not, but I think it's a nice character touch, you know what
I mean. We know a little more about this guy. He doesn't have a lot of gay friends. He asked if they rented the room for tonight. He's like, well, we were a day late. I was tired, so we slept in the car and we got in today. But then he just goes, where's my son. Benson asks like, why did Tim leave you here?
To the girl.
You know they're Orthodox Jew rules, they're split up by gender. Yeah, She's like, he said he would be right back, and the baby was sleeping, and she pleads like please, he's lactose and tolerant. He needs soy formula, and she starts crying. So the news is up in the squadroom and the amberler is happening. There's a tip line and we know it's a nineteen ninety Honda accord. So Craigan's like, yes, this is what the city needs a fucking tourist horror story.
And there's no leads, stone cold, no witnesses, no video, no hits from.
The toll booths. And then the mom is like, can I smoke in here?
This is like no, I think smoking sections are illegal at this point. You cannot smoke in the cop office. So Tim is in the cement barroom with Amorrow and he leaves them in there to walk out, and you know, fuck him up a little bit. The girl he is in the woodblind's room and Craigan's office has a little window view to both the rooms, which I don't always notice. But he doesn't like that it's been hours and still
no sign of the car or the baby. He's like, let's pull everything on these people and I'm gonna go.
Chat with Buffalo.
They also can tell she's scared of him, so we do hate Tim. So Craigan is basically like, listen, we need to find who the last person to be seen, like who saw this baby? Go go find out who fucking saw this baby last. So now we're bringing in witnesses. The room is full. Tomorrow is mad though, because he's on the phone and she ate too much Candy and she's not going to bed, so he's pissed. He's like, fine, have one more piece, but then you gotta go to bed.
And then they do their I love yous and it's cute, and then he goes, that's my daughter. Everything's a negotiation, and then Benson goes, yeah, I wonder where she gets that from.
Anyways, four hours, no clues.
But also, Benson, you met him four episodes ago, Like what are you talking about? Suddenly you know that he's a negotiator. You barely know the guy. And they all don't like Tim. We don't like Tim. His egos up and you know, Tim sees himself is protecting his woman Ali, but they don't really like him. So they go to
play mind games with them and figure stuff out. Craigan has gossip from Buffalo and basically there was a domestic incident call six months ago made by her sister, but Ali backed him up so no charges were filed, but there is a report. So he's gonna send Rollins and Finn up to Buffalo to get more information, which, sure this.
Is not it would have been a zoom.
Okay, Benson and Tomorrow get to play my games of their dreams because these people aren't that smart. So we're also now at the Studded Monkey, which is a bar on Avenue C and this guy, he's the Craigslist renter, so he's the apartment that this Buffalo couple was gonna rent from. And he's like, oh yeah, Tim was pissy and annoyed, and Finn's like, well, he has a right to be. You gave away the apartment. He goes, no, they were a day late, so I rented it out
to someone else. He only met the guy and doesn't know about any baby. He only saw the man and he wants to go party and he doesn't give a shit. And then Finn gets a text at the bar and they're going and the guy's shirt was open this whole time. It was amazing. It's like, we have to show that he's gay. Unbutton his shirt. Yeah yeah, but anyway, so Finn gets a text to let him know that he's going to Buffalo, so we knew that before they even knew they were going.
He's not happy. He does not want to go to Buffalo.
He does not like to work extra actually iced tea today posted like fuck, I have my first day off. I don't know what to do and that, like, you know, if you're a real grinder and hustler, if that's your situation, and it's like, just take a breath, ice, just play some video games. It's okay, jump in your pool. You don't have to be earning cheerio money at every moment. You don't have to be on tour with body count.
Yeah, you don't have to be working at raising canes, like in your free time, just fucking chill.
Allie is pleading in the woodroom, like my husband is good. He doesn't hit me, he loves me. And Amar was like, just tell us the truth so we could find Nate. So she sits down and admits that he is a jealous guy and he didn't think that the baby was his. And that's what happened at the like domestic disturbance called her sister made you know, she had a drink with an X.
He got mad at her.
The sister overreacted and he only just shook her a little bit. And she's like I know how to handle him. I know how to read his moods. And it's like okay, well this is a bummer way to live. And Amaro's like, okay, can Nate control him, like, what about Nate? And she says Tim would never and he tries to be all tough, but in the delivery room he was bawling and Tim
is like, I never heard. That was a misunderstanding and there were no charges, and Benson is like, okay, but we just want your side, and he goes her bitch sister hates me.
I wonder why.
And I see the way they look at me, the mom and sister, you know, because their dad left.
They hate all men. And he's like, but I love Ali and she knows it.
And Benson's trying to go him into like admitting to something, because she sees right through him and he doesn't even know what's coming. You know. She's a genius. And he gets up mad and says, I want to talk to Ali. What are you putting in her head? And she tells him to sit tight.
Okay.
So now there's all this whole wait commotion. They might have found the car under an abandoned bridge, so they're off to the bridge. Siren's wo and Benson runs out of the car with a flashlight. She starts investigating the car. Windows are broken. Baby is not in there. They pop the trunk. The baby is not in there. Either good or bad news, I'm not sure. So now they have to start checking the woods, the embankment, divers in the river. Like,
Benson's like, this baby can be out here anywhere. So they stand together like kind of taking in the moment of what like a giant search is ahead of them. And so now we're at sixteen hours after the kidnapping, and we're all back in the office and it's a busy squadron. I'm like, Benson and Tomorrow aren't going to be doing the digging, you know what I mean, that's a different team. That's a different team. Craigan, Benson and Tomorrow. Basically no evidence of foul play in the car. There's
no blood, no prints, nothing except for Tim's. So that means the car thief, wour gloves, or there are lies and we need to figure it out. So we have to keep them talking. Okay, So then they enter the room and Ali's like did you find him? Did you find him? And they're like, well, we found the car, and she's like, wait, but that's good news. Wait, but you didn't find Nay. Oh fuck, that's bad news. And he's like, but Nate was in there right in the
car seat. She goes, yeah, I told you that, and he goes, wow, that's a long journey for such a little guy, Buffalo to New York. She's like, yeah, but cars put him to sleep, so it was perfect. Marrow asks when they decided to do the trip, and she says, last week because Tim really wanted to see the hall Lean Parade. And he's like, well, what about you? Did you want to come? And she goes, yeah, of course. But she was bummed because she had to take time off of work. But she does work from home and
she does debt collection. You know what, I just learned that not paying debt collectors doesn't actually fuck with your credit because they own the debt. It's not yours anymore. Oh really is that true or false?
I don't know?
Okay, message just if you know, I guess I can ask my new business manager. Because I want to get all my ducks and everything in a row. And I paid off a lot of stuff, you know, because I don't check my mail, so sometimes I missed shit and I paid a big lump sum.
And then someone just told me that and I go, what fuck?
Yeah, But like, doesn't your credit like your credit is affected before it goes to collection, like if you're not paying, well.
It's medical no, because like I sometimes will not pay medical stuff. And I got the people were calling me, and I just paid it, just like because I thought I had to. But I guess what my friend was saying is that the people take ownership of it, like they pay for the debt, so they own it and they just try to trick you by bothering you. But at the end of the day, it's not even yours anymore.
I don't know.
It's better that I paid it, but I am pissed because I have a hotel to pay for in ten months.
Man. Also, can I just say no one's driving from Buffalo to New York to see the Halloween parade. Thank you for saying that. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Yes, the Thanksgiving Parade iconic. You people come from all over the Halloween Parade. It's just kind of like a clusterfuck in the West Village. Yeah, like I avoided at all costs. Yeah, it's just like a drunk fun night.
It's not like, ye, the best costumes in the world night in New York.
It's not that.
Yeah, or like floats that like by huge companies, Like I'd say Gay Pride is a better parade than even Halloween.
I don't think Tim's going to the gay parade. We know how Tim feels about gays.
Yeah, that's not happening.
Yeah, that should have been their biggest tip off that this is lies. Is that, like we drove six hours for the Halloween parade. But we do find out that Tim has a job, which you know, I thought it was a twist, but he does construction. So that's exciting. But now we're talking to the sister. Okay, so Rollin's and finner with the sister. Her name is Moira, and I kind of like that, but she goes, oh my god, I never know what's gonna you know, set him off.
My sister never knows. She's jumping out of her skin half the time. Just anticipating is every move and emotion sad way to live.
I bet that's what their dad was like, you know.
But yeah, from like TikTok therapists, I've learned, like if you're like a people pleaser, like you had to like anticipate someone's emotions at all times as a kid, it's like not healthy.
Or something so, yeah, that makes sense.
Maybe Nate's lucky no jaciugh whatever. But they actually don't even live together, so that's something we learned from the sister. He lives with his mother and she stays with the sister, but he's over there a lot. She's like, and he eats my food like he pays for it. And she says that he never hit the baby, like when Moira was around. She's like, I never saw him hit the baby.
But she has to call the cops because he was pounding forties and he twisted her sister's arm so bad that it was purple for a week, and so they asked to go look at Nate's bedroom. She's like, yeah, for sure, But in my head, I'm also like, shouldn't the sister be a little more upset and scared like her nephew is missing. Yeah, Like I don't get She's
just being so matter of fact right now. And she says the last time she saw Nate was Sunday before they left, and they got a late start because their car sucked and had issues and they had to fix the car. So they left around four pm and she saw them put Nate into the car and he had his toy keys and he was holding onto his dinosaur and then that's when it finally hits her, and like she starts acting like a person who you know whose
nephew is missing. But she's optimistic because she heard that in carjackings the babies are usually fine, and she might have the same source as me, saying you don't have to pay your debt if it goes to the So then it's a slow pan back to the cement room and Tim is yelling for them to find his son, and Benson's like, yeah, no, we're doing everything we can.
But he doesn't understand why he can't leave the room, and she's like, because we need your help, like you need to help us, you need to think about stuff.
And she's like, I know this sucks.
I know you're angry, and he goes, you know why because I wasn't there.
I wasn't there to protect my boy.
And he grabs the bar windows and says, I screwed it up, and Benson goes, it's okay, and he goes, no, it's not. And you don't think so, and Ali doesn't either, and Omarrow's like, you think Ali's gonna blame you, and he says she will find a way, and Benson does not like that. And that's what's crazy about him. It's like, obviously this man hates women, it's like very clear. But for him to be like, she's gonna blame me, She's
gonna find a way, she's twisted. And it's like her whole existence like that we've even seen a peak of, is only catering to this man and his emotions in any one of his needs. She didn't want to call off work. She's going a fucking buff She is the only one who can calm him down. And it's like yet in his brain, even though she does everything, she is still a bitch that's gonna like turn on him. Why wouldn't she have turned on him immediately, you know what I mean.
It's just like it's so wild, and Benson doesn't like that. He said that.
So then someone enters the precinct and he is holding a car seat and it's mister Hernandez and he bought it from a pedlar and brought it home and his wife recognized it from the news. That is an eagle eye wife, and she should be brought into the academy and brought into the brought into the squad because to notice the exact same car seat from the news as your husband wildly brought home from a pedlar amazing, But
can we even confirm its nates? And the photos and CSU will have to work and the Unis are on it. We're gonna canvas, YadA YadA, We're gonna find the pedlar. So we find the pedler, what are the chances? And we go to chat with him and he has a permit and he's like, I'm not doing anything illegal.
I have a permit. And they'll whole blanket with his wares.
It's all baby items, every single baby item, and they're like, we need suppliers. He goes, that's confidential, and they go, that's not gonna work, bro, And so they take this man in. He has white, long hair, a skull T shirt, Vietnam Vet vibes, and he's yelling about being arrested, and the Unis approach all the baby items and they're ready to bag them and do them. And so now we're back at the cement room and he's like, man, if I saw a baby, I would have ran because I
hate babies. So it wasn't like if I saw a kidnap baby or a baby in distress. He's like, if I just saw a baby, I'd be out. That's not for me.
I'm out of there.
But he's not admitting to stealing the car. And Tomorrow was like, listen, we found your print, so what are you doing? And he goes, but you're allowed to lie to me, right And Tomorrow looks like he's been caught and I love it. So then finally he admits, like, yes, I did break the window. I took the stuff, but there was no baby in there, and the car was locked, Like, no one would leave a car like that unlocked with all this stuff. I didn't just hop in and drive
away from it. I broke the window. I took the stuff. He goes, it was Halloween night, and then he's like, listen, I'm just gonna ask for a lawyer. So Craigan's in the spy room is like, damn, this dude lawyered up, and so they thought he was a kook, but no, no, no, And Diane Neil's here, so that's exciting. Hey girl, we love you. And she's like, so what the fuck now?
So Benson knows something happened between Buffalo and New York City, but she doesn't think either of them are hardcore criminals, so like they would have had a better story if they were. And dian Neil's like, well, I don't give a shit, like I have two confessions. And it's like yeah, but that's not gonna work, like so much reasonable doubt, like it's not gonna happen. So Dan goes, fine, then keep them talking. There's not enough if not that, and
then Tomorro finds something. He goes, hold up, I found something, and basically, uh oh, they found a cooler in the car, and in the cooler is fecal matter with traces of soy formula. So they put the baby in the cooler.
Done done, which does remind me of the Taysacs episode where of course the baby is found in the cooler.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So obviously they had a little commercial break. We're back from the cliffhanger. We open up in the woodblind and she's sleeping on the couch and Amorro closes the door so it wakes her up.
She asks what time it is.
He says eight pm, and he's like, so, what are you dreaming about? And also asked if she's all right, So she goes, yeah, I was, you know, I'm all right, and then they start talking about dreams and it's like, move it along, honey, we don't like it in real life, and we definitely don't like it on television.
Stop.
So then she says, you didn't find Nate. You would have told me that first. So this sucks. So she goes, he's dead as any and Tomorrow responds like, that's what you think, han. She goes, well, you would have found him by now, and he sits down and says, okay, let's go back to Sunday, the day you left. But she's really hesitant to start talking, and he's trying, you know, he's easing her in. He's being really charming. He's like, what if someone followed you? Like, what if something's happening
knew you were leaving. We need to think of every small detail. So in the other room, they're showing Tim pictures of the items and he admits, like, that's mine, that's mine, And then they show the cooler. The string instruments begin to play and they're getting louder and he's like, how do you know that's mine? And Ben's and of
course is like, motherfucker, your fingerprints are on it. And the lab found something else inside too, and she gives the poop toy evidence and she wants an explanation and he's like, I don't know, and he starts brainstorming. It's not going well. His ideas aren't good. He's like, maybe she just changed his diaper and she's like, no, mother would put a dirty diaper in a cooler. Bro like, what are you talking about? And Benson basically breaks it
down and goes, you have two choices. To him, there's a good outcome we find out it was an accident and the baby fell and hit his head, or the bad outcome would be you lost your temper and you shook Nate and he says no. She says, then tell me what happened, and he screams, do not attack me, and she looks at him like scum, and then he starts to cry and then he does say I'm sorry, and she says that doesn't matter to me.
How did Nate end up in the cooler?
He walks away and he like grabs onto the bars and Benson walks out to the crew like fuck, he's shut down now, Like he's out of it. He's not gonna help us, and Tomorrow is still and then it's like, well where's tomorrow? And Tomorrow is still talking about Buffalo, So they are really taking their time. Nate woke her up at five am, and Amar was like, wow, you're a.
Really good mother.
So that's like really nice of him, and she gives him a bottle. She says it was really quiet, she had some coffee. He says, you got to take better care of yourself, like why aren't you eating you? You know you worry about everyone else. You gotta worry about yourself. And he gives her a little snack bar and he's so charming. I forgot everything bad he's ever done. And so then they leave around four pm. Like I truly was so horned up, Like he really is so hot,
it's wild him giving her a snack bar. I was like, okay, come over here, like I just really love him in this moment.
It's hot.
Why won't you do our podcast? So then they leave around four pm Sunday. What if like we did, like our brains did break and then we started stalking all the people we wanted on our podcasts who wouldn't say no.
And then we became the criminals, and then two other.
People took over the podcast and like the whole podcast about the crimes of us.
This is how our docuseries starts, Yeah, yeah.
We're doing this, and then slowly we're yeah, we're doing the kidnapping. So then we find out, you know, they left her around four pm on Sunday, kind of like what the sister said. But they didn't get to New York City till Monday afternoon, So what's going on? She pushes her hair behind her ear, that's a tell, and says, Tim was tired.
We slept in a rest stop.
He goes stop at alley and he's so hot because now he spins and now he's like, like he's really mad, and so he gets up and he's like, so far you've been telling the truth, but sleeping in the car is a lie, and he yells.
So he's just yelling.
He's being aggressive, and finally Ali looks up at him and goes, okay, we have to sleep at a motel, and she says the Binghamton Motor Lodge. And Tim didn't want her sister to know that they were, like, you know, in the motel. Craigan threw the grass is like, damn, first lie and then calls Finn. So then Finn and Rollins can go to the motor lodge. So they're talking to the bartender of the hotel and he's like, yep,
they checked in really late. They went straight to the bar and they had wild turkey and COR's light and he says no babies are allowed in the bar, like when Finn is asking about the baby. And then finally Finn goes, bro, we don't care about the liquor license, just tell the truth. We're looking for a missing baby. I don't care if the baby was in here. So they show the Nate photo and he goes, yeah, I
remember the baby. The baby was in a car seat under the table the whole time, and the bartender hated it and made him feel really sad. And then also that they kept fighting and fighting the whole time about Halloween costumes because she bought a pumpkin and he said, no kid of mine would wear that, and he threw it in the trash.
So that's what they were fighting about.
And as a parent, can you maybe walk me through this anti pumpkin cost I really care that I might not understand because I would love a little like I don't get I don't get it.
I don't get it.
It wasn't like it was like a typically femme costume, like a princess or something. It wasn't like she was like he's gonna be elsa, you know what I mean, Like it's it's wild to have a free I think that's probably to show that this guy's like unhinged, right.
Yeah, because the pumpkin is just one of the classic costumes. Yeah, and babies are always in pumpkins and looking cute. I remember the ones I really loved as a kid when the Party City catalogs would come, was like the baby's dressed as a pea pod.
Oh, and I love like a little shy srawberry, Like a little baby dressed is a strawberry or a watermelon.
No, the best Halloween costume of all time was when your daughter Rosie was Rosie the Riveter as a young baby.
Like that was fucking cute. Yeah, she was seven months old, so cute.
And we're back.
So they fight about those pumpkin and they left with the baby around four a m. So then Tomorrow gets more serious with Ali and he really lets her have it, and I truly have never been attracted to any anymore. And then JK, the new Miley Cyrus video is one of the best things that's ever been made.
Agree or disab doctor, Yeah, I've only seen clips, but I love it. I love that hair.
You have to see it all. You have to see it all. You have to see the whole video. It's done really well. I obviously looked up the DP of it the director, like I was looking up the production company.
I mean, I just thought it was cool.
And I guess this was a song that she made with Pharrell for the Bankers album, and like, isn't releasing it, Like didn't release it for ten more years. I didn't read the full article of like why or what not? But it makes more sense now exciting. I also wonder if she re recorded or it's like the original stuff, but her voice has changed, So a lot of curiosity. But he's like, bitch, you said you went straight to bed and you lied, And she says they had to
bring him in. Nobody was there to watch him. Tim is talking shit about Ali in the other room, and you know, she lies a lot. She tells people what they want to hear. It's not on purpose. And then so Benson's like, okay, well you tell me about the motel. Then you know you were drinking, so whatever happened like wasn't your fault, it was the alcohol. And Benson says, I don't think you left the house intending to hurt your son or whatever happened, Like I know it wasn't intentional.
He starts to cry. He's like, I didn't do it, but neither did Ali. But Benson's like, you guys were arguing at the bar, like didn't Ali get upset? Maybe, and then it cuts back to Ali. Tim's explaining, well, he was in a bad mood, so she thought that having some drinks would be fun and they could really
feel like they're on vacation. And Amar's like, okay, get on with it, like what happened, and he's pleading with her like help him, like please help me, and she's like, I want to go back and make it not happen. She says, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. She puts her head in her hands, and then it cuts to Tim's room and he's like, you know, Ali is smarter than me, she talks faster than me, and he just needs her
to shut up. And then Benson is buttering him up right, you know, like, oh, you work so hard and she doesn't give you any peace, and he goes, that's stupid costume. He goes, would you let your son go out looking like a pumpkin? It's just so not a big deal. I like, can't. I really have never been so detached outside of like not understanding you know, like murder and all that.
Like I can't.
Yeah, like I've just never I never thought about something like this, but whatever. So Nate was in the car seat and the car got stolen, like Allie said. And then Benson goes, well, you said Ali was a liar, so it doesn't matter if she's that. And then Amaro comes out with some sad news for Novak and Kragan, and basically Ali agreed that she's gonna draw map of where they buried the baby. So then they go to
a beach in the Bronx. And I don't know why everyone's like doing it at the like woods, why the beach like water sand like, I don't know.
I never get the beach.
I don't get it, or maybe they thought it would be wash. I don't get buried at the beach.
Tides.
There's not as many animals that would like get rid of the body for you, Like, I don't know, it just doesn't really make sense to me.
Well, also, what if one kid wants to build one hole? Yeah? Yeah, they're good about to get a bad surprise.
Yeah, So yeah, everyone is sad. You know, they find the blanket, they find the toy. So finally it's time for a Melinda Warner moment. I miss her. So basically she says, the baby's so cared for, very healthy, well nourished, well developed, no signs of abuse. He was loved, But how did he die? Hello, Melinda get to work. She doesn't know yet, but she's like, there is no physical signs of trauma. Absolutely no. I'm gonna have to see what the talk screen shows so I can figure out
how he died. But they're all working on it. So Benson and Tomorrow are having a tough time with this one. He's like, whatever happened, like they did it together and she's covering for him, and Benson goes, they're not going anywhere, so why don't you go home and hug your daughter, But obviously he's not gonna do that. It's SVU. They have a work ethic like no other. So Amaro and Rollins are in there with Ali and they are done
with this bitch. They're like, you tell us what happened, and Tim's like, I did not kill my son and Ali would never do it either, and they're like, but your son is dead, so tell us what happened. He's crying. He doesn't know. He wants to talk to her. They try to get Alli to pin it on Tim. She won't like someone better fucking talk. He asks for a lawyer and Finn tries to talk him out of it, and Benson lets him do it, which is like, not good for the case.
You can't do that. Everything's gonna be thrown out.
He said that he asked Ali to marry him when she was pregnant, and she's like, no, I don't want to do it that way. I don't want you to feel obligated, and he's like, I didn't feel that way at all. Benson's like, yeah, you love her, that's why you're gonna do the right thing.
What happened?
So Tim starts explaining that Nate wouldn't stop crying and he just wanted Nate to stop crying, and then like Tim is now crying, and he said that he picked up his son and shook him and Ali was screaming, but he just kept shaking the baby and then he stops crying and that's that. And to me, I'm like, why do you keep defending this man that just shook your fucking baby, Like what are you doing? And so then she's crying and she says, I did it.
It was a me.
Nate was crying, and you know, she's like, I just thought a bath would make him quiet down. She said she put him in the tub, she dozed off, and then when she woke up, Nate was underwater.
But both of these.
Would have had physical evidence, and Melinda said there wasn't any, So I really don't understand what's happening.
So we're out in the meeting.
With the crew and it's like what the fuck and like Benson goes, well, they're too dumb, so they're not playing us, Like she just knows.
That for a fact. She's like, they're too dumb to come up with this.
I don't know what's going on, Like are they protecting each other like one of these real Like I don't know, and no vacs, Like I don't care, I have two confessions. Great, so she goes the jury can decide, but Cragan's like, okay, yeah, but there's no cause of death. So that's not gonna help. We need to get the cause of death. So then we go to Melinda again and she's like, they're fucking lying.
There's no evidence, like, absolutely none. They are going to examine the motel room and home and like so because there's no evidence on the body, Like, Melinda's like, we need to check this space, right, like, you know, smoking or something like in the motel or at their house. If someone was smoking, the baby would have been in higher risk of SIDS. And so that's what her gut is saying that it was just SIDS Sudden infant death syndrome. Right now, as a parent, is that something that was
drilled into you in birthing class? Did hospitals tell like what do parents know about SIDS? And was it a feary you had constantly or not?
No, A lot of people I know do have it, Like a lot of part of anxiety is wrapped up in just the idea that there is this fucking unknown syndrome that could just like kill a child. So that's definitely really scary. There's been a lot of talk about putting babies on their backs, like you really have to put them on their backs, and that that's like cut.
Down the number of SIDS deaths Uh, But I don't.
I think as far as I know, like SIDS is still completely like unexplained and it can just like happen.
Yeah.
Yeah, I will say there are these like new technologies, Like there's this little sock called like the owlet or something, or some kind of little sock that you put on a kid that like it can feel like it's pulse and oxygen levels and stuff so that it will alert you. If it's supposed to be like an anti SIDS thing, Well, that seems like a bad idea because don't kids kick off their socks?
Isn't that like what they're known for. That was a whole plot point and monsters anc.
Yes, they do when they're older, but I think when they're like tiny ones, this little sock thing, it's not real sock. It's like it's it goes on their foot, but it has like belcrow Okay, okay, like it there's.
A way it stays on there.
But like just really quickly googling it It says that smoking during pregnancy, drugs and alcohol during pregnancy, being younger than twenty, not breastfeeding, and that sleeping the baby on their stomach, those are risk factors allegedly.
Oh that probably, like yeah, the soy formula. I'm sure that's why they stuff that in there. They're they're s and they showed her smoking a cigarette. Yeah, and she is young. She is young because at one point the detectives do go like she's a baby herself.
Yeah, Oh my god, oh my god, this is all too much. Oh my god.
Did you see you know how France abortion is now constitutional?
Right?
I saw one meme that was like, uh, when that bitch you hate serves so good?
Oh I really liked that.
But anyways, but Melinda doesn't get No one understands, like why would they confess to kill their son if it sits and there's no evidence of anything that they just said like no water in the lungs, no damage, no shaking, no nothing.
And so then I guess they really do love each other.
And even though he's an abusive nightmare, like he was willing to just go to jail, so there is like a really toxic I'm not promoting this relationship.
But they do and some level really care about each other.
Yeah you know, but yeah, their baby died of natural clauses, and Omar I was like, no, I mean, they have to tell us what really happened because until then we will never know. Like there's got to we still need to know what happened. It's driving him crazy. And he's new to the precinct. He does have a daughter, so he is just now learning about us view what happens here, and so to him, yeah, like he needs to fucking know. It's it's affecting him. And Tim says he doesn't know
what happened. He passed out. When he woke up. Ali was holding Nate on the bed and then she says Nate was fussy and wouldn't settle, and she was scared he would make Tim mad and wake him up, Like this is why it just hurts everyone, and so she decided to put him on his back, but in their bed, and they were all sleeping together and she's like, I
did everything you're supposed to do. There was no covers, there was no pillows, there was nothing, and when she woke up, Nate wasn't breathing and Tim says she was rocking him and singing to him, you are my sunshine, and so he asked her what was wrong, but she didn't answer him.
She just kept on singing. And she said that she was.
Trying to get him to wake back up, and they didn't want to.
Call for help because who would believe that. Mally says, so not what? Okay?
It was her idea to do all of this, to put Nate in the cooler, to drive to a New York city to bury him. And it's really hard for her to get all this out, you know, I'm really speed reading it, but it takes her a minute. And she says, Tim left the car under the bridge. She told the cops the baby was taken. She felt like New York City, bad things happen all the time, so it wouldn't matter. And then Almarro goes, it wasn't like
you did nothing wrong. It was sids and she goes, what and he explains, sometimes babies they just die, and she says, you know, like the three of them in the bed together, it wasn't perfect, but it was so good and she was so happy. And she's like, why why us? And she asks with her hand over her mouth, and Tomorrow is getting really sad, and she says, when you woke me up, before, I was dreaming Nate was dead.
So when she woke up, she thought it was just a nightmare and that he was just like asleep and everything was fine, and then she remembered and she asked to talk to Tim, and finally they let them meet.
Tim walks into her room.
They hug and they cry, and so then Benson, Tomorrow, Finn, Rollin's Craigan, they're all watching, you know, with a spy window, and Craigan goes, now what, and Benson goes let them go, and the rest of them there's a little chatter, you know, like what they put the city through, and then Tomorrow goes, don't worry, they're going to be paying for this forever, and she says, just send them home. And it's like, is Craigan not in charge?
The fact that.
Benson is making these decisions while he's sitting right there. But it ends on a close up of Benson and Tomorrow, and it's like quite sexy after like a really sad sad. It's sad, yeah, And if we didn't poor people badly, maybe they could have called the cops right away, you know.
But yeah, but then it is scarier. Baby is dead. Of course you think it's your fault. I mean, I don't know. This is like a fucked episode.
I'm glad no crimes are committed, but I guess playing with the corpses, you can't like take a dead person and do whatever they want with them. But they do deserve to just leave, go back to Buffalo, and because I don't think they're breaking up now though, but maybe he'll work on his anger issues.
Oh god, I don't know, because he or he'll get worse, or he'll hold it to her forever and go. I was willing to go to jail for you. I lied to the cops for you.
Yeah. It's not good.
It's like they make us seem like, oh wow, they do love each other, it's true love. They're embracing, they're crying together, and it's like she is on edge and she like the reason she put him in the bed even was because and SIDS could have happened in the crib, what you know, but yeah, it was so he wouldn't wake up, so so Tim wouldn't wake up, so Tim wouldn't be in a bad mood. So it's like, you know, his energy does affect everything.
You know, No, and that is like a form of abuse. I think.
Yeah, be like so on edge all the time that everyone around you has to alter their behavior, you know.
Well, yeah, that's how I kept my family on line. How do you think I got my way? Fear baby? You scream a few times and everyone wants to keep you at bay.
Yes, Oh my god, so funny. Okay, So this episode is based pretty closely on the story of Joseph Bales and Helen LeMay. Joseph age thirty three Helen age thirty one at the time of this were from a small village in Quebec. Neighbors said they were weird, like they were Seventh day Adventists. I don't really know what that religion is. They were strict vegetarians. The guy did odd jobs.
They avoided visitors, like a neighbor. There's like a neighbor in all these interviews, being like I went to visit them and they like wouldn't let me come inside. They just made me talk to them on the porch, like they didn't allow toys, and they planned to homeschool their children. So Joseph was apparently an unemployed handyman. And Helene they are a French Canadian. So I'm saying her name the
way I think you say it. Ellen, I guess was said to have had several university degrees in psychology but taught correspondence classes to earn money.
But they did not have money. They were struggling financially, so in.
April of nineteen ninety four, they visited New York City with their four year old daughter, Priscil and their ten week old daughter, Mugay, and they checked into a hotel on thirty first Street. Later, they called police and said that Mugay had disappeared from a bench in Central Park while her father had dozed off.
All this name is really making me laugh. I don't know if I could continue with a straight face.
Mugay Magay. I looked it up. How to pronounce it. It's moogay.
Yeah, No, I'm sure it's mugay. But it is funny. Yeah, every time you say it. Yeah, I'm not taking the crime and the story seriously enough because I am giggling.
I'm sorry.
So they said that the dad dozed off and the baby disappeared, but they didn't call the cops for eighteen hours, and they kind of tried to blame not speaking English on why they didn't call the cops. But when they finally got the cops on the line, it was a full man hunt, Like they searched the lake with scuba divers, they had huge numbers of police searching for her by air, on foot, dogs, like the whole thing. But the police were suspicious. They were like, why'd you wait eighteen hours?
Like it's kind of like with this episode. It was like there was a lot of what happened, and then we got there and the room wasn't ready or whatever. So after they were questioned for a while at my old precinct on the Upper West Side, the twentieth precinct on West eighty second, the couple's story unraveled very quickly. So in reality, much like in the episode, Mugay had
never traveled with them from Quebec. They had found her dead in her crib, and another fact came to light as well in the questioning was that they had been accused of abusing a foster child they'd taken in the year before, who was described in the stories I read as you know, severely disabled, but the child had presented bruising and seemed melnourished or something, and so that child
had been removed from the home. So when they found Mugay, you know, unresponsive in the crib, they panicked that they'd be charged because now they have this sort of blight on their record of this foster child. So they decided to drive four hundred miles to New York City and set up this ruse because they thought that maybe this entire thing would just fold into the chaos and crime of New York City. And it's nineteen ninety four, so New York is being cleaned up, I'd say at that time.
It's not like it's the eighties, and this is so sad. They had a doll with them the entire time that they had wrapped up to convince the four year old. They sister was with them, so that the four year old wouldn't be like, where's Mugay. So the couple primarily spoke French and like I said, tried to use the language barrier to sort of obfuscate and uphold this hopes at the beginning. But then at one point I read one of the cops asked, does anyone want ice cream?
And little Priscill goes, yes, I want ice cream in English. So they spoke well enough and the girl fucking blew their cover.
That's so funny because like it's such a classic thing now with the Internet, I know other people have done that. But like, my dad would make me lie about my age to get free shit, and I would always be like, I'm actually five, Like yeah, and he'd be like, I'm your dad. Let me lie. Who cares what the stranger is doing? Like have my bat That's so funny. Yeah, He's like, who gives a fuck about this person? If I'm lying, just like trust me, back me up. And
I was like, okay, yeah, so that was fun. But I do remember like fucking up.
You know what else?
Say, hey, did your parents do this when you'd be waiting in the grocery storeline and then they would run to grab something and then you didn't just have to be there in the panic that ensued. That's another experience that I attributed it to, just like my dad being like foreign and annoying, and then you know, with the Internet and knowing people, you realize that's a common anxiety.
Yeah, no, I remember that that is scary.
But literally this was just a conversation in the mom group that I'm in because somebody was like, how easy is it to get your just turned four year old in and get them to like bly and say that they're three so that they can get into Disney for free, And all these people were like, I don't know, watch out because if they ask the kid, the kid will say.
They're real age.
But then people were saying, it's actually a Disney rule that they're not allowed to ask the kid. So people were like, put the baby in the stroller, cover his body with a like cover lower half of a blanket so they can't tell how tall they are, and then just cruise on through and you can kind of like sneak your kids in when they're close to free age.
I do like that Disney has a policy don't ask the kid, because it's like, it makes me feel Disney execs have a little bit of a heart where it's like, if someone's trying to sneak in a kid, let them do it.
Yeah, a little humanity.
Well, because you know, the rule too that I've learned from the internet is the characters they can never let go of a hug. First, Oh, the kid has to let go first, that's so cute.
It is cute.
And then I always I watched the ones where like the kids really need the hug and like stand for a.
While and buy, oh, oh my gosh, it's.
Gonna be me very soon. I want to be there. But I just watched one this morning. It was a little kid dressed like a penguin and it was a Mary Poppins and Dick Van.
Dyke Is that his name, It's.
Dick Van Dyke, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was like, I can't believe this little kid watched Mary Poppins. But okay, you know whatever your parents show you. But I didn't even know Mary Poppins was like out Poppin' at Disneyland, you know what I mean.
Like I just didn't know me neither.
But I watched that one, and I've just watched and like, yeah, they're not supposed to let go. So besides the money gouging and all the you know, all of the bad stuff, you know, the Nazi things whatever, there is a magic for children underneath.
There is the magic of the hug.
There is a care and at chill, like that's like a way to be like, don't ask the kids if they're trying to lie and let them lie.
Like well, also like Oscar talks very well and I ask him how old are you?
And he goes good, like he messes with me.
He won't say how old he is, and then when people ask him, he'll go two and then I'll go three, like he'll just change it. So it's like, you know, you can't trust these scal though at three almost four, you should know. But anyway, eventually this couple admitted to everything, but they also admitted that Moogay had died over a
week earlier. Like Initially the story was we found her dead and then we drove the next day to New York, but then they found out that she died almost ten days earlier, and so much like in the episode, they used a map drawn by Joseph and Helen, and the authorities found ten week old Mugay bales LeMay near Eastman, twenty miles north of the Vermont border, in a snowdrift
by the side of the highway. Horrible and she had been in the woods for a week, but her body had been preserved by the cold, and the autopsy performed in Montreal seemed to uphold their story that there was no kind of neglect or injury to the child, and New York planned on dropping the charge of filing a false report. The couple could have been charged with illegally disposing a body, which is punishable by up to five years in prison in Canada, or face other charges after
the autopsy. But as far as what I was reading, the autopsy showed that the child had been well taken care of. And they also did during all of this, lose custody of Priscill, who was sent back to Canada and was with social services while they were awaiting autopsy and charges and everything. But then this is so wild, Like I cannot find a single article about this after April of nineteen ninety four, Like after this happened.
And the judge sealed it or something or what, you can't even do a lock up.
Well, because it's Canada too, right. I was googling the parents separately. I googled Priscill, I googled the baby's name alone. I was googling. I went to google dot Ca to see if maybe Canada had different search results, Like I could.
Not find a thing.
I'm assuming they didn't get charged, and so the whole thing kind of just disappeared and like they're not going to cover it if there's no charge in Canada, and then in the US they're like, well, we gave them back to Canada, so what are we going to do? So I have no idea. I'm assuming they probably got purcealed back as well, but.
I really don't know.
I don't know anything after a bunch of articles that I have in my sources about like hoax, a couple, baby is found, you know whatever, but then nothing damn so kind of nuts. So if you know anything else about this case, because I know we have a lot of Canadians, but I.
Really did try so hard.
I was googling what are popular search engines in Canada and it was like Google is the most popular.
Like I was like, maybe there's some other. I was trying to put it in French.
I was like putting things in French to see Yahoo. I don't know, but I'm assuming that they just sent them back and said, you know, autopsy proofs that your story is correct, and they didn't want to hurt these people more by charging them with illegal like body but it's you know, it's a similar story in the sense that if they wish they could have just gone to the authorities and not been scared that they were going
to get charged. But I don't really know what It was hard to even find what they were accused of with.
The foster child.
It just said a foster child had been removed from their care, but they didn't get any legal There was no legal charges or anything brought up. But I think it probably made them gunshy about the system.
So that's that.
A short little crime, but it seems pretty closely based even though it happened. Oh my gosh, how many years before this episode came out, like seventeen.
Yeah, that's that.
And we don't have a guest for today's episode, so let's just dive right into that post mortem. Baby, Okay, no guests, so let's just dive straight into the post mortem.
Good episode.
Listen, you're not going to be smarter than Olivia Benson, Like, I don't know what you're doing. I know Amarro's new to the task force, but you're not getting past them. But that's what's funny. We're always like cops are stupid, but then it's also like you might not be able to get away with the crime either.
Yeah, but we also are also like don't talk to cops. Cops are like, cops aren't good. And then these people kind of tried to like create their own alternative instead of just calling the cops and saying, hey, our kid didn't wake up, like and because they thought that they in both situations, in the real situation and the episode situation, they were worried they wouldn't be believed.
Oh my god.
Last week I was talking about how Philly has all these fucked up crimes. There was the Philly first like female serial killer killed eight of her kids were dead. The funny question he was like, when do you think you'd become suspicious? I'm like, third kid dead, I'd be like, this is not something's going on, you know what I mean. I don't understand how eight kids were full and she
never served time for it or anything. I mean unless it was back like hundreds of years ago when it was like tuberculosis was like killing every kid.
That's wild.
Anyway, this episode, I mean, it's a real twist attorney one because you don't.
Know, oh what they did.
And then like, but the guy also seems bad, like no, honey, nineteen ninety eight, Oh my god, what Oh no, that's when she finally confessed my serious deaths of her babies in the nineteen fifties and sixties.
Still that's too recent.
Yeah, and the mom oh my god, the fucking article is cradle to grave. Okay, oh my god, I'm telling you Philly. Yeah, No, we can't. We can't mix with this Philly shit right now. No, but we'll probably cover it next week.
I don't know.
I just thought this episode, like, I felt that I felt sad for Lisa Joyce's character because she had this like off the Rail's sort of unhinged boyfriend who only she can calm down, and then they have this baby, and like obviously a huge tragedy comes to her and she feels like it feels like we're just watching somebody in the throes of PTSD. Like the entire episode, because she, like I think, loved her kid and was you know,
is just literally like sleepwalking. It felt like like she was in a dream where she thought it was happening and then she woke up and realized it was really, you know, so it was you know, good performance.
Wish she would have come on the BA. This is just something funny.
I have a friend from my past that's like very very beautiful. I don't know how it came up, but I was like talking to my friend, I'm like, you need to see her husband. He is like not hot at all, Like it's just wild. And then when I went to her page, husband wiped. There is not one photo of the husband. I'm like, oh, they are clearly
getting divorced. And it's like, that's how it happens. And then our friend Jared Freed posted this story and it was so funny to me, and it was like the social media phases of when you get dumped and it
is wiping, but then it's like social media break. You don't see them for weeks, and then all of a sudden they come back and it's like a little quote about getting back up and knowing yourself, and then it's you know, Jim selfies suddenly, and then it's a trip and it's like and then he posted this and I took a screenshot of it and he goes, why I go cause it made me laugh, and then he wrote he was saying, then the final stage is when they post a cover of the Taylor's Swift album where she
has a French braid. I just like loved it so much, but I was like, I just like the use of French braid and the cover which is ever more.
Yeah, wow, I got it. I got it.
I just thought it was so funny. But it is like social media. I don't know if people are trying to be cheeky or not, but that's how I always find out. Like even this guy, one of his exes, I messaged him, I'm like, hey, is everything going okay? He goes, we actually broke up, like you know, we needed to talk about it. Well, it's like, yeah, I knew it. She was posting fucking jim selfies. I knew exactly. You guys broke up. You don't have to say anything to me.
Sometimes if I'm like, I haven't seen them post with each other in a while, and you just like go and look and like it's all the stuff's gone. Because you were about to say how so and so, but you're like, no, I'm not going to because it's it's they're gone.
They're they vanished.
Oh yeah, they're taking lovely because we have another friend and I got a text going check out the Instagram they broke up and it's me ediately as she just ran the half marathon, she took a trip to Iceland.
It's like, honey is nursing a breakup? You know what I mean?
Yeah, that's why I don't know. I was gonna say, that's why you gotta be careful what you post. But please don't. I want to see it all.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, feel free start doing some blatant like just scorched earth removals of your exes so we can know.
All right, what would sister Peg? Do you know?
What?
This is our WWSPD Weekly Second, No more WWOBD, it's what would Sister Peg?
Do you know?
We want to give you, guys more info about the topics that we covered because we can't cover everything and sometimes there's organizations that allow you to donate or learn more information. So that's what we're here to spread the
word about. And we would like to give you more information about SIDS, which is known as sudden infant death syndrome, which is what it seems both of the children, both in the episode and in the real life crime of this Today's podcastp suffered from and you can learn more about it on the CDC's website at www dot CDC dot gub Forwards slash SIDS. Basically, SIDS is the sudden and unexpected death of a baby less than one year
old and in which the cause was not obvious before investigation. Tragically, about thirty four hundred babies in the US dies suddenly unexpectedly every year, so there is not a ton known about the exact cause. But you can learn a lot more about it at that website that I've provided safe sleep resources and grief resources for people who have been impacted.
So CDC dot gov forward slash SIDS that will be posted in our stories the day this episode drops and forevermore on WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page.
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