Misleader

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories done done.

Yay, that's messed up?

An sv podcast. I'm Liza Traeger.

And I'm Kara Clank And every week on this podcast we unpack an episode of SVU, a true crime. It's based on sometimes an interview, lots of chatting up top and what is today?

Today?

Is everything's a blurby. It's a wild day of the week, isn't it. Like I like, someone's building my new website. Hopefully it's up ready, but I remember him being like, it'll be done right before Thanksgiving.

It in my head, I go, jeese, that's forever.

Now it's time and he wants approvals and I was like it came so fast because I remember him telling me and I was like, wow, it takes that long.

Also another web thing, I'd.

Like to say, I've been doing a lot of Christmas shopping and I've I gave advice to a bunch of comics, like a bunch of guys who didn't know about it.

But Etsy is the best.

Yes, Like people are sleeping on Etsy and I don't think they get it. I'm like, truly, any TV show, food, idea, move season, you can find a thing about the thing.

So and even if you can't find it, I feel like you can find someone who would make it for you, you know, like if you're like, could you do this? But make it this like, I bet they will, you know. Yeah, it's it's just great.

It's vintagey things, like old timey stuff.

It's new little craft.

You're right, it's custom because I got one of our friends a pack of ten matchboxes and each of them have photos from the Real Housewives of New York on it and I and I bought the ten random pack and I wrote to her and I go, hey, girl, I needed to be all real Houses of New York.

But I hate Leah. Please don't use that photo. And she wrote back being like, oh, I hate Leah too, And I wrote the Pirate one. I would say, wait one, sorry, what'd you write the wife the Pirate?

It was like the women with the pirates at like Turks and Caicos wherever they are, don't be all uncool, so like, yeah, even if they have something particular is just a girl. The only thing I would say is the shipping time is long because it's you know, single crafters.

Yes, it's not. I got enterprises. My wedding invitations were at sea. Really I saved that.

Yeah, h I found this great galon at SEU did my wedding invitations, and I loved charm and she even like she made a mistake. She did my programs and she made a mistake and she just like redid them and sent them to me like really quickly.

It was great. She was great. Damn. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Mm hmm.

You can do yeah, because like to go to these some of these wedding like places that do that professionally, it's it's way overpriced for something that most people are gonna throw into the garbage. Well, yeah, George Stanza killed his whole like fiance because of it. Yes, the whole fiance died. But yeah, no, Etsy's so good. I was just thinking about how grateful I am that I don't have to go to that same party that I had to go to last year, where I had to stress out so much about the gifts.

And you know what Jared was.

Pointing out he goes, remember how two guys at that party gave vibrators and it was like they just gave like vibrators out like as their gift. It's like for the women at the party, it was just it was weird and like that's a store bought thing. The whole thing about that that dah, you have to remind people about this party. This party was like you can't buy anything that you could get at a Walmart or Amazon or a big box store.

And then that was what half the gifts were.

Half the gifts were totally stuffed that you could do at the and I was really annoyed because I tried really hard to find stuff that wasn't and it was like it was it was stressful. But I don't have to do it this year. But I'm excited for the holidays. It's today is December ninth. This is coming out. We're in the thick of it, the thick of the holidays. I'm I've been weirdly getting in the spirit so early, like I well.

We have to because we're recorded.

I mean I just did a friend's podcast Christmas episode a week ago and it'll come out.

But we were wearing Christmas gear yeah.

But like literally the second that Halloween was over, I was like, should we get our tree? Like I don't know why, I was so all I want for I think it's you. Immediately, I think it's like the fascist I'm looking at comfort concentration camp.

So I think, like, yes, as soon as Halloween was overy, people were like, get the lights up, get the lights up. Yeah, discraption's going, where's the raindeer.

I'm thinking about doing outdoor lights on my house for the first time ever, like not in my house, but probably just on the fence. I can't figure out how to attach a light to a house, but like to the fence, you know, like wrap it. I think that could be cute. And then one of.

My favorite traditions when we were a kid, when I was a kid, was driving through the neighborhood that loved to decorate. Yeah that's what the Jews did, Like you all drive slow in this one neighborhood and the lights

Creating no light. I would say light peeping is still a thing. There's like supposedly neighborhoods in LA where you can go do that. But I haven't done it with my kids, but I wanted to, like every year. I don't think I could ever get that crazy. You know what, did I ever talk about this? So like we were raised Jewish, but my mom was like, I still want to do Christmas. We culturally did Christmas every year, so did my dad, being ra by just like a single

Know what I'm talking about?

Like there's just one fake candle in every window of the house. So when you will look at the house, every window has one candle on the window sill, and it's just I thought it was so beautiful, and I would ask my mom and be like, can we just do that?

Like every year. She'd be like, that's.

Extremely like Christian feeling for a Jewish household. And I was like, okay, but like, I don't know why. That was always my obsession was doing that. I thought it was classy and gorgeous. Why don't you do it? I I had candles in the windows.

Now get the candles in be the Christian household you've always wanted.

It's such an East Coast thing. I feel like it's like with multiple stories, you know what I mean? Like everybody in La has just like a one story house. I don't know that anyone knows, like what's either or white lights or rainbow.

I'm a white light. What about you're saying that? Like me too? Your color? Oh you're white? Okay? Yeah?

Even though white colors, I like a uniformed cheek.

Yes, I like that's my thing. That's my thing is I like colors, but not with lights.

With lights.

My kids are like, can we get can we get colored lights? I'm like, no, we're getting white lights. If we're getting them, I'm trying to figure out where to get my white lights. Because walgreensious. I'm just nervous they're going to be outdoors. The lights I have now, I swear to God, I think I bought it Dwayne read fifteen years ago in New York, like, if not more, maybe twenty years ago. They've never broken. I use them

Get elements? Are you thinking about in the Los Angeles area? I don't know. Well, knock on one.

There's obviously disasters, but I don't think a mud slide's.

Gonna come through.

No. No, But like rain, you know, yeah, I guess google outdoor, like the water from my sprinkler, I don't know.

Oh yeah, how's your garden? Well, the well, the garden is going. It's still it's still there. No, no, no.

And the woman who made my garden, Rochelle, she listens to the podcast. So she left me this gorgeous garden. Some of the vegetables I didn't like, pick in time and then when we got them in the house, they were not edible. But a lot of the stuff is still growing wonderfully. I did have to just recently do a little sweep of some of the stuff I had

But I thought I could revive them, but it didn't work. But we just had like six days of rain in La.

So the garden is popping right now, the back part of it, it's popping. She's really I'm gonna sunder some picks. So we still text all the time. We're friends, but yeah, I'm starting to How do you feel about this Amazon catalog? I know you saw it at my house one year, But now my kids get this fucking Amazon catalog where Amazon basically tells all the kids what they want for Christmas and they just go through and they circle almost every single thing in the.

Catt Yeah, but it's not like Amazon invented the catalog. I liked catalogs when I was young, right, but they have everything in one spot. Kind of sure, But isn't that better? Like, don't you like that?

That's true?

We you know, on this podcast we support big business just so you guys know we like giant conglomerates.

We're a big box podcast, that's for sure. Yeah.

Do you think Todd from Salt Lake City is getting some Starbucks cups for Christmas?

Oh? I bet he is.

If he's traveling bugs when there's trouble in Paradise. I think he's traveling picking up more mugs. I have a Starbucks San Francisco. Should I send it to Todd?

I mean every time I see these mugs, and I mean, I'm honestly pissed that bron Win showed us that man and now he's in my face. Now I have to imagine this gout motherfucker making out and farting on a flight like it's sickening.

What is with the farting?

He's just gross. I don't know when you invent pomp pilot you think? I mean, I think most people are farting on flights. I'll be honest, maybe not mid makeout, but him taking the cherry was too much for me.

Can you even imagine what Brounwin does at Christmas, all the costumes. I'm sure she's like dressed up as Rootolph, like ever get Away. It's like so fucked. The Housewives are like such a study.

I bet like years from now it's gonna be the core of education, like teaching people about psychology and life. Because to me, it's like you meet her mother, her mother's awful to her, and you repeat it, and then you get a man who's condescending and thinks you're all these loser things. And then you're with a man who you go, I love eating the cherry and eats the cherry. It's like so gross.

Yeah.

Yeah, they repeated the cycles of whatever Apple keep themselves. Yes, wait, so I know it's this at this point was weeks ago, a month ago actually, but bravocn happened in Vegas, Okay, And I know you guys know we talk about Bravo a lot, and we've talked a lot of you know, Listen. Some of the things about Housewives that I like is that I can hate somebody one season and then the next.

Season I can like them. I do like that.

I think it's fun that we have, like we don't just like always label people and hate them forever.

We can kind of switch on people.

But sometimes I think people take it too far and they get kicked off the show, and then two years later they're just welcomed back with open arms when they've done like no accountability for themselves and change nothing about themselves, Like the Vicki thing, Like there was this huge moment at Bravo con where Vicki got asked to be back on.

Also so embarrassing because she's just so thirsty and pathetic.

Yes, that's what it seems like.

It's like you've been fired, they don't want you there, you've been a friend of and then he's gonna surprise you with this gig and you're not even gonna be like, well, let me think about it.

I'll talk to my lawyer.

You're like crying, you were and then posting a photo of you are like cuddling an orange in your bed, like have some self respect.

But I talked about it. I guess podcast respect if you want to be a housewife.

I talked about this on another podcast and I was like, it's just annoying. How like I don't know, it's almost like you can do anything. I'm half expecting them to give Kenya back her peach in two years, even though she fully showed underage like sex work photos of a cast member of a fellow cast member. So like, I'm kind of like, does anybody ever really get punished to the point that they apologize or actually repent for anything?

Like no, because then they would to get back on the show. If people were actually sorry, they would not be on the Housewives.

I would say.

The only person that's not gonna be ever asked back is Jenshaw, and that's because she served actual jail time. Like I don't think. I think Teresa did too, Yeah, but she didn't defraud. She did defraud people. I was gonna say, didn't defraud the elderly.

I don't know.

I don't think there's morals we have to stop. Like if men in sports can rape and beat their wives, I think women on Bravo could, I guess be racist.

I don't know.

I don't I know, I don't know the rules, Like I don't racist, and like telling people not to take the COVID vaccine and all, like in a public on a public platform.

I mean, like anyone that is a trumper should be honestly and guantanam obey, you know, like I don't want anyone that voted for Trump anywhere near me or on a screen or anything.

So obey. Yeah, I don't.

I don't know, Like to me, I'm disgusted by I don't want to look at anyone thriving that's a Trumper.

Thank God.

On the OC, they're all such fucking losers that it's cool to sew as.

I don't want anybody's life on that. No.

I mean, Heather Debro but she's liberal and cares about people. And then Tamra Wildly is a Democrat, even though she I think some terrible children.

I don't think I think she I do.

I think she's I do, but Jo more like a Biden dry and none of it matters.

Get these Epstein five. I mean, I wonder from.

When we record this, if we're getting these files out, or what's going to happen.

As of this recording. The Congress has voted all of them to one to release the files, and then the Senate very quickly did a unanimous vote. This does not happen in American politics. If you're listening from abroad, this never happens. So I still think that they're going to figure out a way that it's part of an ongoing investigation.

I'm not going to see it.

I just don't trust any of these Republicans to like, would they really agree to it because of their constituents, Like they know that he's in it and that he doesn't want it out. I'm very curious what the plan is because I so somewhere being like they're doctoring it, so they're going to take everyone that they want out of it.

But I don't, oh you they're redacting.

Like that's what someone was saying, Like why else are they so gung ho? These people? But now they don't have a choice. It's like I don't know, I don't know what's happening.

I can I be redacted or It's like to me, the emails are incriminating enough, the emails are enough, but it won't be enough. None of it will be enough unless those files have a videotape of Donald Trump being like, this is a thirteen year old girl, and now I'm going to have sex with her, and then he does it on the tape. I don't think these people care.

But it's also okay, So I'm looking at this BBC thing and it's like, e'p seein I had a plea deal where he molested a fourteen year old girl in Florida. So it's like just knowing that and being convicted of soliciting press should oh the one where he got to go home on the weekend. Yeah, like eleven years later, charged with running a network. Like all of these things. It's like the fact that a president even has photos with these people, like the company you keep.

I just don't.

I will never understand these I just think I'm different, We're different.

I don't. I don't need more. The women told me the.

Girl like right, no, most people that are normal were they were out at grabbing them by the pussy. They were out at the Miss America comments, you know, like we're the miss teen comments or whatever, like we were out.

We've all been out for a long time.

Wait, so I wonder, you know, if I say, like Mother's Day is the lowest arrest day, or like crime day, I wonder what Chris where Christmas falls, or if Christmas is a big robbing day, or like what's going I bet there's.

Like the like the Wet bandits and stuff. Yeah.

I do love that my kids love Home Alone. They'll always watch it with me. That movie gets me in the spirit. What are you gonna watch any Christmas movies?

You know it?

But I actually just had a conversation with other people. I go, I go Home Alone is the quintessential Christmas movie. The goal I like Christmas vacation. I go, sure, we can all like whatever we want. But I'm just saying overall, Home Alone is number one in terms of like family.

It is just great for all ages. I think, Yeah, no matter of what you like more or less, it is. And there's something about I love Christmas vacation, but it stresses me out. And then because of how everything just keeps going wrong, it feels stressful. Whereas Home Alone he keeps like winning. So I'm sort of not as stressed. But what other what are other?

Well?

The one that I didn't grow up with but that I'm like so happy I celebrate Christmas was like some Americans is I love mupp at Christmas?

Like, let's watch it?

So few and I think I like it even more because there's an Internet post where they just were like the director's notes of like, hey, Michael Kaine, it's just like a muppet move and he goes, I'm going to play this the most serious that I can't. So it's like Michael Kaine like being like so serious and then it's muppets around him, and yeah.

I want to watch I've seen it.

I've seen it. I just haven't watched it in a while. But I like the family Stone and I know you love that one. That is a good one. And it's just that I cry though I don't know if I can watch that this year. I watch it every year. I love love actually and I stand by it. I know there's think pieces about how much love actually sucks.

I love it.

It's not a think piece. It's my own eyes, brain and heart. I don't like it, and I try every year. I try every year.

That's fine.

There are also think pieces and as well as your opinion.

But I really like it.

But I think it's like I saw it right when it came out, like so it's just solidified for me. I saw it in the theater when I was living in Italy and was like, I love this.

Anything happened in Italy, you know that's cemented in your heart.

Yes, but also but also there are some of the storylines that I'm like, I could have done without, you know, But some of them I think are fun and I really like them. I like Laura Lenny No Love. Actually, I don't know why I don't like it. It just doesn't do it for me. But I love British people. I love everything like that. I love all the British shit. I like Godding Hill, I like four Weddings and a Funeral. I like Hugh Grant. I'm here to say I don't

I know, watching clips of him and Emma Thompson on What's That The Couch Show, Alan carr uh No, Graham Norton, Gram Norton, and I would they just said so much.

Gram Norton is the best fucking chat show and why can we not replicate that at all? I feel like Cordon tried to by having all the guests stay on the couch, But he's not the same level of funny as like.

Oh they hired a fake gay, they need a real gay.

Graham Norton, Yeah, why is there not just I mean, it's sort of what Andy does. But I wouldn't say that he has the same vibe as Gham Norton either, Like he gets the biggest people in the world get up there, they tell funny stories.

It's not it.

Doesn't feel as you know what it is like produced as like the Tonight's Show and the other It feels like you're watching a bunch of famous people at a cocktail party talk to each other.

Also, if you like Hugh Grant has a sense of humor about being an asshole and he's aware, which I like because he told them with Thompson, he goes, God, you must have hated me on that set. I did this this, and I got arrested halfway through. They have a felf aware king and he's like and she was like, you were the worst.

He's like, I'm the worst. I don't know. I like there's something about him.

There's yeah, there's something about What I love about love actually is that this extremely handsome, like this is extremely a charming man. Is the president of England essentially the prime minister and his single like it's like so like just available to date.

And then he just liked saying I was wondering if Zorn like would have gotten married if he wasn't running for mayor, or if they sped it along, or if it was a natural part of life. But I do think I thought, I think about that because they just got married in January, I believe, twenty five. Oh, so I wonder if it was like we got I mean, I'm sure they were partnered and they seemed very in love, but I but they seem non traditional, like cute outfit, you know, to the court house. Yeah, I wonder if

Get a wife at least cool.

Yeah, she seems really cool and someone you know, how the new thing is like having a boyfriend is an embarrassing and all this stuff. And someone was writing how they like that you can't even tell she's really with him on her Instagram like.

It's all like these are things that inspired me. Like she's just.

Kind of I love a cool girl and it didn't become her full.

She's not like a first lady per se, where it's like her whole fucking life.

No, but I it's Bridget.

The thing is, I feel like not in hil Hambridge Jones are Christmas to me. And I don't know because Christmas just happens, because.

Christmas happens in the course of the movie.

Yeah, I'm okay, because I hate when people say diehards a Christmas movie, Like I really that bothers me.

Yeah, so I don't want to be controversial in that way. They just feel like that to me, And I wonder if yeah, yeah, yeah, what it is with the Brits We'll be watching. I'm sure tons of Christmas shit. My kids like The Grinch, the Animated, the Illumination. They don't like the Jim Carrey very much to scare it too. It's weird, but I'm excited to do some like Christmas y crap with them too, Like I don't know why I have such a You're right, it's probably how the

Really like not going anywhere.

Well you so you also mentioned that like you want your kids to be able to wake up and go to the tree and open the cats and you can go to Bob Baker. Wait, you know, and I love La Rachel Sennett's wearing a Bob Baker like she's.

Wearing out merch hat.

Yeah.

Yeah, from the Puppet Place, oldest oldest marionette theater in the country. Babies around the corner from where I live. We're going, We're going to the Christmas one.

Wait, Cara, I finished, And just like that, I finally watched the last three episode.

Do you know if five episodes away from finishing, like, I'm so.

Close, Czy, I'm so close.

I ran out of things to watch and I go, all right, I'll finally finish it. And I did, and it's done, and it's done. I don't know what made me think of it? Did you say Christmas. Is there a good Christmas episode of Sex and the City.

Well, I really liked the New Year's scene in the movie where like, oh the old lang Syne where she runs.

She runs to Miranda. I always cry when I watch that. Yeah, I don't know. If it's Christmas, I would say I always watch Simpson's Christmas episodes every year.

And the Real Housewives.

Okay, what are your classic Christmas Housewives episodes? Like when Bethany does it up with those weird nutcrackers.

That is, I would say the Berk shares anything in Bluestone manor Christmas Time, and I would say Jersey did Christmas?

Well, you know, okay, the.

Cookie and the sprinkle cookies, the sprinkle cookies, how dare you?

Yeah? Yeah, so I guess right now.

Sorry if I'm not being more, those are the ones that pop into my head.

But yeah, yeah, yeah. I. By the way, I have to get Rosie at fucking bike for Christmas? Did I take our to both my kids bikes got stolen off our porch.

No.

I've been living in my house for six years. I've never had a thing stolen. I leave my front gate swung right open. It's like it's not I don't feel like we have anything valuable or like, you know whatever. And we just noticed one day I came out, I was like, where are their bikes? I checked them back gone gone, and one of them had training wheels on it because Rosie's still not off the training wheels. And I was just like, what the fuck? By the where

And he wants a Barbie. He wants a fucking Barbie dream house.

But he already still plays with the Gabby house that you got him, and I'm like, I just I can't have that many house.

We can't have that many houses.

Well, once you start buying him houses, I'm happy to buy him miniatures from Etsy, because that's what I've went up to I'm buying a lot of miniatures lately for for what just to have like just keep things. So, like I said, so for this year for Christmas, it's a little bigger group than we usually do, so we did a theme just to like make it easier. So it's something soft, something edible, something New York. So you know, you could do wonder what I am obviously doing, three guys,

Oh you know what I mean. It's like use your imagination and you could just bring something edible for the whole gang to eat. Right, everyone can do whatever they need. I am getting everyone three separate things with each theme. Of course, got it, of course obviously.

Yeah.

So for Lane, I got him miniatures for a dollhouse, but of foods from Seinfeld.

Ooh marble rye. No, that's hard, that's not like.

I got him a Bosco chocolate sauce, a junior mince box, a black and white cookie like plate, and then I'm personally ordering from Europe. We'll see if this shoes has to make the mold fresh. But it's gonna be a miniature tweety pez hopefully. I don't even know that reference. Oh it's what makes the piat like they laugh at George's girlfriend, who's the piano recital, and Jerry takes a tweety pezz out and Elaine laughs and it focks her up. Oh so that's like the miniatures. And then I buying

Beans, so it's fucking good. But for Alison, I got her one.

That's a Housewives reference in case anyone doesn't, Oh yeah, go on.

I don't know.

I think I feel like I've mentioned this already. But on The Simpsons there's a joke with Homer and it's nuts and gum and he goes, I'm a man eighteen to forty five thirty five. Everyone listens to me, and he's like, it's a jar of nuts and gum, and it's Allison's favorite joke. So I found a tumbler on Etsy, and it looks like the canister from Nuts and Gum.

Oh amazing, but it's yeah, like no, honestly, this is an unsponsored at sea commercial because really they do have everything you want, like anything you need.

Yeah. And if you.

Didn't know, yeah, and for New York, for one of them, I've you know those red lantern flies or moths you're supposed to kill. Yes, they make clear magnets with like the dead the the moths in it.

Oh my good, I killed a bunch of those when I was on these guys. Wait.

Yeah, last year I got you a moodang on Etsy. It doesn't moodang feel like it was six years ago now, No, I mean she I'm still following. I'm still following, so following. What's what's what's move up to?

Wait? Hold on, bird, I'm trying.

Oh okay, sorry, I have like not a spreadsheet, but a notes of all the gifts and the foods and the things.

Okay, it's just.

Hard because there's like one candy Julia loves from Canada and it's only sold in Canada, so it costs whatever. So I'm like, do I do that for the food or I can do it for the soft and get an edible like thing. Yeah, so I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I bought myself a miniature lunchable.

I thought that would be cute. Love that, yeah, but I mean I just love it. You can get like a plate of mozzarella sticks as an ornament.

I just like anything you want, anything you're into.

At Sea has revolutionized gift giving.

I would say, such creativity, but I'm excited.

But the ravel rye was an amazing first Yes, yes, yeah, I mean that's what I always think of if I think of food on Seinfeld. But the junior mints juju Bee's too, right.

Wasn't Yeah, I couldn't find those, so I have to get those specially made, and I'd rather try to get this tweety pez.

Yeah. Oh my god, she's in and it's gonna pop open. No, it'll be in.

She makes the the container of it, so it's like the backing of the box, the pez and then the clear thing on top of it a packag.

It's package. I thought it was just the holder.

Yeah, but the miniature world is I mean, it's in right now. It's not like I'm a oh yeah, out of the truck.

Is fully of a comic friend of mine is, you know, fully into the miniatures, so of it all makes them displays them.

Oh and if you live in Montreal, I will be their December seventeenth. And if you want to get people gifts, I'm on the road on February twenty. First, I'm doing Grammercy Theater in New York, but I'm going to Kansas City. I'm going to I'm going to a lot of places, Vancouver, Seattle. Like tickets to my show can be a Christmas gift, Yeah, the gift canter. I'm also on cameo. I just I just did a seven minute cameo.

I'm really like, you truly get like eight you get a lot of thirty dollars.

You get a lot.

I'm not gonna put the shirt, but i will give you seven minutes. My friend, who you know sent me called me with her friend who listen to the podcast Hello Friend, and they sent me the cameo that they had gotten for her or her friends had gotten for her from Luanne. And she's like hungover. She sounds like she just smoked seventy thousand cigarettes. She drops the website for her cabaret at the end of the cameo and

Yeah, cool, because I remember she showed someone how much money she made on that and they were like, oh.

Yeah, she's out there and she's doing it in the car.

She's doing on the way to places. It's not like it's but listen.

I if you're looking for also other gifts, please go to the Exactly Right shop and buy our merch. We have a new T shirt up there the based on Judge Lois Preston and Liza's mispronunciation of her name.

I'm obsessed Lewis Lois, Louise Louis. It's great. I like to come.

I'm Tommy March is good for Christmas in the new year, but Tommy March well will be.

There in the new year. We're gonna work on some Tommy merch.

Hopefully get the dumb bitch socks back up to We're gonna get some shit going.

But yeah, get uh.

And there's a Christmas ornament in there, and this episode comes out on the ninth, and you have three more days to order so that it will be there before the Christmas holiday if that's what you celebrate, So a reminder, you can also do that by going to That's Messed Up live dot com and going to our shop button.

But let's get started.

We're going to a we're doing a great episode today in old school.

Okay, we're heading back to season one, episode seventeen March two thousand.

I did not remember this episode.

I know I've seen it. It's all because a couple of characters were like the mast. I was watching it truly like I've never seen this before, but I know I have, but it was so back in the recesses. It was.

And it's also kind of obvious, like who's doing pretty quickly? But there's something about the way they speak in season one, and it's kind of like the Russian love poem where I don't know what's happening. I don't know why you're speaking like this, and this is so confusing and hard to understand. Why are you using these words? Like it's really a different show, totally agree. Thing goes in my

You saying that?

Like's not, that's not what you would say here, Like it's so it almost makes me feel like there was weird editing or something.

Yeah, but I'm just glad you.

Felt the same way, because sometimes I'm like, am I just a fool? And then added to this, So a maid comes into the hotel room, cute pink uniforms. She's shouting housekeeping, housekeeping, so she's speaking Spanish.

The captions and the noise were from the.

Episode Taboo that I had just been watching for fun before, so for some reason it frosted, but I didn't realize it. So I'm just hearing shit about afterbirth and a dog barking, but I'm watching her speak Spanish, so I don't know what she's saying.

So I'm writing about after birth when the.

Captions got fucked up like it Taboo captions and noise crazy.

So I'm like, what the fuck is happening?

But then I figured it out quickly because I was like, there's no dog, who is angel?

Where is the afterbirth? Oh? Yes?

Because the beginning of Taboo is like a dog just like finding a baby and like, yeah, yeah, well the afterbirth's in its mouth.

Yeah, so I figured it out quick. But Ava Maria, you know, she goes, oh, it's a mess. Holy shit. She's picking up a bunch of stuff. She slides the door. She sees a woman in like a black bronze panty. So she turns back and is like, oh, sorry, sorry, excuse me, miss. And then when there's no noise, she turns around in blonde dead woman on top of the covers, eyes open. The maid screams and runs out. See it

But it was quite upsetting. Oh that's really upsetting. Yeah, and I didn't notice during my nap. I only noticed at night. Oh okay, I'll continue, sorry to upset the room. Yeah, so this place, you know, the room's been tossed.

There's nothing in the safe or and there's no valuables. So Benson's digging in a purse no money, and she's like, this is strange. I always carry a pairy pair of ear rings in my bag.

No you don't. He's talking about and stablers.

He goes, yeah, like you carry a purse, and then she goes, well, that's because you carry it for me.

I don't know whatever they approached it. There's marks on the neck.

The larynx is crushed twelve to eighteen hours ago. Their guests saying, so between four and ten pm was the murder. The arms are crossed, so that's you know, personalization, Stabler says. Benson goes, we're great, a burglar, rapist with a conscience, so credits. Jeffries and Munsch are walking down the staircase that's in the middle of the precinct and I really miss it. I missed the staircase to nowhere from nowhere like they had a lofted office.

Love it.

Yeah, one time we were up there with the old lady, I feel like, and then never again.

No, were we not up there for raw for like the racists. I feel oh, maybe.

I just remember when they lent the old lady, like the NYPD sweatsuit.

Or whatever, and she was up there.

So Munch's suspender lavender pink dress shirt. Jeffries is giving, like mid speech, she's you know, it's a power trip, aggression control, male domination. Remember, he goes, yeah, but a rape's a ripe is a rape. I'm just saying you can't rule out the sexual aspects. I don't know whose accent that was. So Benson and Stabler approach. Benson calls them frickin' fracks. Stabler says Alphonse and Gaston, okay, and then Munch says slappy and happy.

I can't so they're bantering. Thank god, Hey, who are Alphonse and Gaston? Oh it's a comic strip. No, I thought it was from Beauty and the Beast. No, it's a comic strip about a pair of French a Frenchman with a pension for politeness. I thought Gaston was Beauting the Beast too, But there's no Alphons.

I don't think. What's that little short man's name?

Then Lafou Lafou, Yeah, damn my bud. Okay, so banter, banter, But it is also so weird that they're just like French comic strip, like do we think Stable reads that it's just confusing.

It's very confused. I mean I thought it was beating the beast.

So so Craigan interrupts, and well, because it also like there they don't work together, one is clearly beneath, so like, I guess that also confused me, but I went with it. Craigan interrupts, he wants to get back to work, so Stabler starts reading his notes. No signs of first entry death probably by strangulation early last night reads like rob Ray palmicide. If she did fight back, not for long.

Jeffrey goes, well, maybe it's regret, you know.

So then a man I've never seen before in my life he walks by and says, you can't rule out anger, and then he walk he leaves.

Oh it's Kenny Briscoe. It's brisco It's like they give That's what I thought was so funny too. I go look at them throwing Jerry Orbox on a line he just goes, can't rule out anger and walks away.

Whoall because I didn't know? Because later they call him Brisco. But even when I went on IMDb, I'm like, oh, I need to find out who this is. This is like twenty years ago. I'm like, I can't. I can't look at these faces. Nothing makes sense. I'm out of here. So but later they do, they do address him, but he's he's given intern he's a young young man, so they really have nothing, like how do we narrow anything down, especially with all the prints in DNA, but they are

Wait, say it again.

Able to leap a tall democrat and a single bound.

It's like a joke about Superman able to leap a tall building in a single bound.

I guess. And then it's.

Like, again, weird language. So this guy's the president of Midvale College. He goes, it was a nothing college and now he made it a think tank for neo conservatives, and Benson goes, isn't that an oxymoron? And he says, I love you, Olivia. Munch keeps talking shit. He hates these motherfuckers. Benson reports that the husband's been told and is flying up, and the in laws were pretty flipped. Stabler says, is it just like language was different in two thousand?

Like was I too young? Like what the fuck are we talking about? I don't know.

I feel like they're still getting the tone of the show or something. And so like the writing is all a little bit all over the place. I really, Yeah, it's pre neal bear Yeah, no offense.

Okay, So so we have to go back to talk to them, and right there I wrote, I'm confused how they talk. Jeffreys and Munch go to the morgue. It's a red haired woman with bangs, like my mother. She confirms its manual strangulation for cause of death. Between six thirty and nine last night, rape kit positive for semen, sheets turned up positive for bodily fluids as well. Good samples much flirts with redhair and she's not into it.

Well I read in the wiki of this episode that she's kind of reacting to I guess he asked her out in the previous episode.

Oh okay, yeah, which I don't know if we've covered yet. By the go girl.

Cool, Benson and Stabler are with the in laws at this fancy hotel and they need to know about Sylvia's day. So they were at an awards dinner for the Christian Educator's Coalition, but she wanted to go home and skip the mixer. They assumed that she was just like tired from walking around all day. He says she was super independent, loved art and was like dying to go to the met and the mother in law goes, yeah, but she

Pipes back up.

And she she and Brad had been burning the midnight oil on annual reports. So Brad Weber is this finance guy. They have an office here. He's staying here too, working in the New York office. And Stabler asks if there's been any grievances with her, and he says she was a fine young woman. Everyone loved her. She and his son had so much to look forward to. And Stabler's like, we just start looking for, like any possible motive, and this dude's psycho. He turns he goes a drug addict

It's the shit. They always say that New York has no God and that's why everybody there is just like sucking and fucking and drinking and committing sins and murdering people.

At least they're doing on the open, you know what I mean. I don't know.

It seems like they're raping children on an island, so I can't.

It's just like again, my phone feeds me what I want. But the amount of right.

Wing people that get arrested for child abuse images and child and rape is quite crazy. A lot of cameras obviously it's a hotel, but not in the hallways because privacy and you know, people do need to cheat on their spouses somewhere and it would be too expensive to have that many cameras.

But they go, well, then how do you protect people?

He goes, We're pretty diligent about trying to kick crazies out, and we have electronic locks so we know when like the door is opened by staff or guests. And so he has Hadley's log and this guy's old school, white haired man, but he already printed that information all the room service, everything for that room. And he also has tapes from check in around the hotel. It's just like a box of tapes. The only issue is there's a

Do you have any kids? No? Okay, my god, do you hear the honking? It's like insane. I heard it really lightly. So they asked do you have any kids?

No?

And then Munch asks him if him and his wife are having problems, and he hates that question. He goes, my wife was not having an affair and he goes, well, that's not really what we met. Jeffrey pops in and is like any financial problems and he goes, no, what the fuck? Why are you putting our private life under a microscope. This isn't about my wife. This is about one of your New York psychos out roaming the streets.

Okay, so Benson was walk in and shake his hand. He leaves to go.

It's I mean, I guess grief is different, but it seems crazy to just start making this like an act of political you know what I mean, Like you're yelling about PC stuff.

Your wife's dead, what are you talking?

Yeah, well, I mean I think that's all par for the course with these kind of people.

Benson and Stabler walk in and shake his hand, and he leaves to go see his parents. He then apologizes for being an asshole like me at a hotel desk in any morning, in anywhere in the world. So Benson fills the team and Brad Weber no Goo doorman saw him leave at six and got hotel messages. After nine, all staff prints were cleared, like there is a burglar hitting big hotels. So I guess that's a lead. But

It's Brisco.

And they give him a box of tapes with no time stamps and go go do this. So Stinbler at that point hangs up a phone and the name of the latest victim of these robberies is Lana Hoffman and she's staying at the Sussex on the East Side. She is blonde, and she's an actress named Kelly dead Mom, which maybe it's pronounced different but definitely spelled like dead mom. I looked her up because I just knew she had been in other s views, and she she's in five episodes.

So a queen.

Yeah, she's so familiar to me, so yeah, I know, yeah.

She says it.

I feel like I remember her from Annihilated, Like was she not the wife of.

That actor that?

She is the wife I think, And he's the niptock yees wife, Yes.

Of the Niptok guy. Yep, yep, yep.

She says it took her a second to realize that the safe had even been oating disc voices. She's the mom of the kid who's like accusing Billy Porter is a dissonant voice.

Isn't that the one? It is? Yeah, it sure is, She says.

It took her a second to realize that the safety had even been gone in her jewelry is gone, but she's annoyed because the other detectives dismissed it as an idiosyncrasy and they're like, well what and the burglar masturbated in her underwear and the evidence is in lock up and the other cops said, whatever, that's random.

Who gives a shit?

So they ask if anything random happened that day, or like, did anyone follow you? Follow you in the lobby, and she goes, yes, there was a guy reading the paper in the lounge and he did creep her out. They rode the elevator together once and he wore a red baseball cap the whole time, so that's why she noticed him. And then she goes, yeah, because I remember thinking, oh, some men never grow up. And that's kind of cultural shift too, because like, hats don't really mean the same thing like.

That you're like a child. Yeah, yeah, people just wear hats now.

So we go to the burglary task Force, so s few detectives are being normal, and this guy's like taking offense to their presence. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, you want to take all the burglaries. How about Manhattan takes all of them? You think every burglar is a rapist and Benson's like, we just care about the with the masturbating in the underwear, and they like hul his ass with all this information. He's like, oh, yeah, how could you have helped me? How are you gonna help me?

And they go, this is exactly what we were talking about last episode, I know.

And they go to schools. Well he wasn't so but they schooled like it's amazing. So he goes, how could you have helped me? And so Benson and Stabler are kind of like double team and they go, well, he wasn't in it for the money, so like, you shouldn't waste your time looking for the goods on the streets. It's not random. He stalks and follows these people for days. He likes blondes. He gets a rush from being in plane view of the hotel and now a woman's dead

Britain, which is very season one because now that's a little bit too tricky.

Yeah yeah, I.

Mean he's working on it and looking for the baseball cap.

Wait, what do you mean it's tricky?

Like they wouldn't say that now because like that would be too close.

To like abortion, like she's much because the John Ritter too. It is still homicide. If you like stab a pregnant woman and kill the feet at like Scott and Lacy Peterson, that is double homicide.

I think it's considered a forced abortion sometimes like an illegal Maybe it's like an age of the abortions.

Peterson case I felt like was a homicide.

Because I feel like that's why in the ridder one they had to say that the bait had to trick him into saying the baby took a breath. Oh yeah, that's why, and he was like, no, the baby didn't cry.

Or because I don't even like the equation. I guess you have to prove it's alive or not. I get, I guess, but it's like so annoying that, like you have to focus on semantics so much when it is so different. Yeah, of course, like I don't get that whatever. So, uh, the Brisco's working on it, and he's looking for the baseball cap stable right now, is making maps of all the like robbery hits of the hotels, and I mean

Because I just now when I was looking up the woman that you were talking about Deadmond, when you saw that this burglar is Norbert Leo. Buttz, I don't know that is you do? He is the original, he knows the casein knows too. We've tried to get it. We've tried to get him on the podcast. He's the original Fierro in Wicked. And by the way, I said on a former episode that he's the original Bok, I meant

Now you see the one.

Where the fertility clinic gets I've only seen one. He's in a brand new season twenty seven episode and he's in bloodline. He's in a lot of stuff, and that just isn't what he looks like. I mean, I know twenty five years have passed, but like twenty six years, but like he looks I didn't even clock him as member Leo Butts.

Yeah, he spells Butts different than you guys think there is a Z. Okay, it's a Z yeah. Yeah, but I just like the rushing in arrest. So while they're walking him out the robbery teams, they're going, that's our collar and they go, well, no, you didn't get him, so and he's been a fucking bitch and then Benson says, our captain's been talking to the mayor, and Sailor says yeah, and the mayor didn't really like hearing about your unwillingness to cooperate.

He tries to put his hands on Stabler.

Stabler's like, wait a minute, flips the fuck out, don't fucking touch me. I don't like to be touched. And they let go of each other, and Stabler sits in the front.

Seat and Munch puts red hat into the back seat, and then the Butts guy goes, if that's the guy questioning me, I definitely want a lawyer and I don't think these burglaries and murders are connected.

But that's just me.

So he goes, he has like a device in his hand that gets him into everything, and he made it. He's like, oh, it's not even hard. I'm a computer programmer. And his lawyer goes, stop talking, and he said whatever. So I was fired for my electronic block company because I was too bothered by the illusion that they were perpetuating. And Munch goes, yeah, yeah, I'm your guy. I'm like, I love a conspiracy. He goes, yeah, there's tons of key cards on the maid's car, like one combination opens

He's like, your job is to get me a good deal. Shout what the fuck up? I want to brack about my crimes.

He says, all that stuff he took is just sitting in his apartment. It's nicely cataloged. It could all be returned. It's not about the stuff. He was just trying to prove a point and the lawyer finally says, can you just please shut up for one second? At that moment, there's a knock on the window and Munch says, maybe you too need some alone time. So the four detectives are out in the spy window and the Butts guy's like face on mirror, like trying to see something.

I just think it's so crazy that this guy is like Adam Conover. Basically, he's like trying to be like, actually, hotel security is a myth, like you know, you could do anything you want. You can get these keyguards or easy to get and all the safes can.

Be open and blah b It's like I don't know.

And he's doing this all just as a crusade, like it's pretty wild.

So much, and Jeffreys are like, ooh, let's go be bad cop, like let's have some fucking fun and they kind of fistpound each other. And so now the Hadleys are in the squad room too, and they're like, should we tell him about the pregnancy, and Jeffrey's a month like absolutely not. It's like a card we can hold on too for later. So much, and Jeffries enter back.

So you love underwear, you freak and he goes, no, but yeah kind of yeah, and then they bring up Sunday and he's shocked, Oh my god, no rape, no murder.

I don't know.

I'm not wired that way. He gets so angry. He's like, I want to clear it up right now. I didn't rape anyone. They go, where were you goes so ho East, I stole a diamond studded collar off a terrier. It's the only dog friendly hotel in the city, and that's that's definitely changed.

You can bring dog and how yeah, how times have changed.

Cute dogg But I love how this guy is a computer programmer who also wants to prove a point about hotel security, but also likes to masturbate in women's underwear.

And that's just who I am. Baby. He's like, just get used to it. Yeah, he's really confident.

The husband wants to see the guy, but Benson a munchure, like we made a mistake, and they, you know, they brought him down a little prematurely what they like to do. He's like, I don't believe this templer goes Yeah, you know, shit takes time. But riling up the press wasn't really cool. Huh, and the dad's there. He goes, listen, we're under a lot of pressure. We apologize, and he also realizes, like, I know, your job is really hard, and the husband goes,

Yeah.

So they asked if she ever with anybody, he goes, yeah. Every time he came in the room, the bathroom door was closed, so maybe because someone could have been in there. He also does apologize for his rude comment earlier. He's like, you know, sometimes guests just be from a room number. After a while, at eleven pm, she called down to have the mini bar restocked, but they could not do that,

Dramatic music and he's room bars. So they start grilling him.

He's obviously lying, you know, but he has to loosen up after he realized, like, they know what's up.

So he goes, listen, we did have an investment meeting. You know, I'm happily married. There is no affair. She did hit on me, though, and it felt like harassment. But she could ruin my life. And Sailor is not buying any of this, and like, you know, now you're actually giving us motive, so we think it's you even more. The affair got too much. You got scared you'd lose the client. It's such a big client, and so you killed her. He's like, that is not true. There was

But that's it, he says.

I know, I love how this guy's like, I'm a good guy, like I didn't do any and it's just like little bit like little lies keep like.

Sailor's not buying it. He goes, no, I swear I went back to my room. I love my life. Please, I don't want to ruin my life. And so the benson asks where he was Sunday night, and he keeps denying. They keep pushing, and so they go talk to the dad, the dad in lam and he likes Brad. He likes the way he handles the money. And there's a Bible quote said, and then Staylor goes, please leave scripture out of this and tell us if there's any pertinent information

Polluted. She goes, oh, did you guys just get polluted last night? I'm like, wow, a new one, A new one?

YEA polluted? Guy's got polluted?

Or what do I say, hammered after a blocked out?

What do I say?

Wasted party? I partied, fucked up? Yeah, I got fucked went after it. So yeah, so they're they're throwing him under the bus.

And now behind the man, the husband is there and he has his arms crossed like a little child, and the dad continues that he's known to make passes at women and in the past they laughed it off, and then Benson goes, well, nobody's laughing now.

So they ask about.

Personal connection, but he's like, no, they only work together and I can't imagine him hurting him. The dad jumps in, we only needed a report from him once a month, but Sylvia did work close with him all the time, and you know, they handled the management of endowment. And the son goes, wait, what are you what are you talking about? And the dad goes, come on Ben late nights two to three times a week.

Grow up.

He pats him. He says, you know, they have never fought. But then it's like, damn, I hoped it would be a stranger. I can't believe she's fucking Brad. So they're back at cement room bars going you lie to us. We hear you love to drink and grope, and he goes no, and then he goes, listen, so what I drink? My job is stressful, but like, you don't know what it takes to keep that college afloat. We have an extra meetings because there's a huge balloon payment due next quarter.

I don't know what knows.

It seems to me like they haven't paid anything for a long time and now a massive bill is coming due.

Like that's what it sounds like to me. But I'm no finance person, No I think you are.

So it's biting him in the ass, and Sylvia is trying to fix it, and that's why he's out there like still stumping around. So the lawyer hops in and goes, listen, this dude has never been in trouble before. He told the truth when I wasn't around. Okay, And they say, you know, he's still a prime suspect unless he gives us some other good information or a blood test. And he's like, yea, get I'll do the blood test. Why didn't you ask for the blood test yesterday?

You know what I mean?

Just like holding him in this room, he's down for the blood He did nothing, So now we're looking into the college Hadley fired anybody that disagreed with him, and his doctorate is from Lutheran Ministry College in Jackson, Mississippi.

So he's a preacher boy.

And I don't know why they had to have that info, Like, I'm happy to know what college you.

Went to, But am I missing something?

This is connected to some of the stuff in the in the rhyme, yeah, in the.

Truth ol Okay, I love that.

And so the Hadleys are holding a memorial service and that's in one hour. So the team splits up, so some go to the memorial and some go to talk to the college professors that have been asked.

Okay, but can we just talk about the fact that they're having a memorial for this woman in a city that they're not from.

They don't live in New York. They're like on a trip and they're like.

We're having a memorial here in New York for her, and like they're like they have not stopped talking about what a cesspool of sin New York is and that this could only happen here. And then they're like, you know what, let's rent out of space. We're gonna do a church. We're gonna have the remembrances here, like what's happening?

And then they're at the park, which I love, and why you know they're by like I feel like it's Washington Square, this it's NYU. So this dude tells Jeffreys a munch that yes he was stalin, Like so, I don't know what that means. Strict, yeah, paranoid, basically a fascist dictator, like getting any bad rid of you that doesn't like agree with you. Yeah, so whatever. This guy, he's a philosophy professor, he started teaching in nineteen eighty nine,

So now we get a little bomb drop.

Okay, rumor was that Sylvia spent more time working with the Hadley senior than living with Hadley Junior. Okay, gross, this guy's not hot, like not even I'm not even talking physically, like insulting a man's looks like this actor is so good, Like this guy's not fuckable or hot in anyway? Am I wrong this stash is. No, he's weird. Yeah, I don't, and I don't think the Sun is. You know, they're both a little weird, you know, heroes. I don't know why this chick is fucking these guys.

I don't know.

Okay, So he's not surprised though, because Junior, you know, NEPO got him the job. But Sylvia has had strong, badass, like she did everything. So now we're at the memorial and Hadley Senior is to talking and the mom is sitting and she's looking up at him. She really doesn't like him very much, and the son seems like he hates him as well, and he's thanking people for their guidance. The mom is giving, like Milania disinterest. I would say.

Let's get all their blood.

So Craigan vampire, you know, and bring mom back up to see how strong the glue really is. So she walks in and Benson does a one on one with her, and you know, she asks with Sylvia happy, The mom goes, yeah, she loved that. She really knew how to work a fundraiser, and I bet she would have really gotten along with Lindsay from the episode.

Oh yes, yeah, from what because she had a gift for corporate giving.

Yes, a gift for corporate giving. You're so right.

And yeah and this woman not just yeah, she really worked a fundraiser. So hopefully they're in heaven making some events.

You know, they're they're working a Colon now fundraiser in heaven together right now.

So okay, so now the son he loved to teach and you know, was the sun happy And she goes, yeah, they were a good team, but you know, he wished that she worked less and spent more time with him, and Benson goes, okay, Well that's not the same thing as being happy. She goes, listen, happiness is highly overrated. Detective marriage is a working partnership, and it's about the Lord. And Benson goes, okay, so was it? Was it consecrated by the Lord? Was she faithful? And the mom goes yes,

This guy is done.

Okay, so my notice this guy is not hot and I'm not talking looks like weirdo.

So my point reiterated.

Okay, Benson walks into the squadroom with a bounce, because I feel whenever, whenever there's an affair, I feel like, even the incest one, I'm like that guy's given something. Yeah and taboo, what's he has a funky Yooh what's his name?

Yeah? You know what I mean, like they're bringing up they usually have something going on.

Okay, So Benson walks into the squadroom. She has a little bounce, she's got bouts. What I wrote this word swaggert? Did you mean just swagger, like a little swagger to her step?

No?

But was it written I feel like.

Swaggered because I don't think I would have said Benson had swagger, like that's not the way I speed, but a swagger. I don't think it's a word. I mean, braggert is a word I don't know, But okay, whatever, So Jimmy swagger, Jimmy Swaggert is an American televangelist.

Is it something about that?

Oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, But then why didn't I finish it?

We're gonna get to the bottom of this mystery. Okay.

Once he's exposed, the money is gonna stop. So the balloon payment put gasoline on the fire, so they got to move quickly. So but once all this is exposed, the money is going to stop, and then the balloon payment, you know, that's gonna put gasoline on the fire.

They have to move quickly.

But we need to make sure the mom stays in the precinct and doesn't give a heads up to the men about all of this in the affair, and they're gonna, you know, go ruin their day. So bring them all in, separate them, and they can't talk to each other. The dad's cocky, and he isn't talking till he his lawyer's there. And Benson and Stabler are cocky too though, and they say, wait away, babe, your DNA is going to corroborate your wife's story.

He goes, what story.

Sybil goes, oh, no, we probably shouldn't say anything until your lawyer gets here. Window tap much says the brisco has something. So basically, the videos aren't time coded, but he was using visual cues from the events at the hotel to put a timeline together. So evening Friday Girl Scout meeting, because you know, that's that's when the Girl Scouts meet Friday night.

They get Friday at a hotel on a Friday night.

They have a couple of martinis at the bar, they talk cookie sales, and then sometimes they get a room, they do some coke. Who knows what the girl Scouts get up to. It's so, oh my god, I would on Oh my god, I want to samoa cookie so bad right now? Oh man, Okay, So anyways, and then Sunday morning there was a Cardiolist just convention, and so Sunday afternoon wedding guests were arriving. So Sunday morning Cardioalis conventions were checking out. Sunday afternoon wedding guests were arriving

Fuck up, like stop talking, can get to it. And so now look at this. So he says, this guy was on the elevator Sunday between four and six. Stabler makes eyes at Benson and next to him is a guy with a bottle of the Little Maker's Mark, which means this is Sunday afternoon, and Brisco is sure it's the sun. He's there. He's not in Baltimore, remember that

Bitch was there.

There's a atm witchdrawal at Times Square Chase, Manhattan, Sunday night at ten fifty three pm. We get him entering the lobby. There's photos in the elevator. Munch walks across the team and says, good liars don't necessarily make good killers. Okay, cool, walk and talk alone. I liked it, and basically we know he did it because it's like you fucking lied and you were in the hotel at the time of the murder and not in Baltimore. But also, why didn't he get out of the country, Like why are you

Right random that.

There's just like a different eightya, Like, he's in a bunch of s views or No. Two two in season one, and then back in fifteen for a different character. Okay, oh nocturn, the one where the piano played with the piano teacher.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

So I like this guy, and but we also have to figure out is this sex or rape before the death, so we get the DNA results. This guy says, wow, okay, old testament. I want both of them. So Craigan says, we need them to turn on each other and put two cats in the same bag. Let them work it out. So we're in cement room bars double duty, Daddy's son and Craigan's having some fun, some interrogation on.

There's a lawyer there as well.

Both dad and lawyer keep talking to Craigan and is like, hey, son, do you ever talk for yourself? And he says, I don't know. And he says it's a tale of two cities. But I don't think that's the right. Isn't it that about the French Revolution? Like two cities? I don't know what it's about. I did in high school. I did, I did read it, but where I lied and said

You're a liar? What's going on?

He goes, no, My dad said it's a tragedy. And I came back. We know he's lying. So Craign opens the door and summons Jeffrey's and she has the lab results. Your wife's throttled neck and a piece of skin from under your fingernail.

When did they swab under his fingernails? I don't know.

This gave me a little bit of pause when I was watching. You know, I'm always looking for holes.

I know, but I wonder if they did it right away, don't You're right, You're right, I don't get it. A piece of skin from under your fingernails was still there, and the throttle neck whatever, it's a perfect match. Before you can speak, the lawyer goes, not another word, and then Jeffrey says, well, these are DNA results from the

Ben the third.

He says, that's just the grief talking, and she screams, no, it's me talking. A lifetime of grief and two years watching my husband soon to be ex fornicating with my son's wife.

He stands up slowly.

Sharon fathering his own grandchild, she says, and then she walks off, and Craigan and him are left in crument room bars and he sits back down.

And that's stickwolf baby, damn. This is surprisingly close to what happened. I mean, a big twist. That's different. But let's get yeah this real life style. Let me take you to Hillsdale College, a small conservative Christian college in Hillsdale, Michigan, which is about eighty five miles from Detroit. So, starting in nineteen seventy one, George Charles Roche the third became the eleventh president of Hillsdale. He really located to Michigan to take the job with his wife, June, and their

In nineteen eighty four, Ronald Reagan made.

Me, merch what a gift for corporate giving's really getting me today? Yeah. In nineteen eighty four, Reagan makes Roche the chairman of the National Council on Educational Research, So he's in there with Reagan. The college has this reputation as a haven of conservative family values, and the Weekly Standard called Broche a hero to the movement, and I actually looked it up, and this college is like in

And they don't take any federal money.

They're all based on their endowment and donations and tuition and they don't take federal money so that they don't have to do Title nine or any of the stuff that you know, any of that DEI.

Bullshit, right.

So this guy is bringing his dale, Hillsdale, to the top of the market, and working closely alongside him is his daughter in law, Lisa Roche, and her name is spelled Lissa but is pronounced Lisa, and the wife of his son, George c. Roche, the fourth who goes by Ivy, which is Ivy, like four, the Roman numeral four. Like everyone calls him Ivy because he's.

The fourth one. Okay, that's cool.

So yeah, So Lisa is instrumental in helping the elder Roche put Hillsdale on the map.

They work closely together.

She knows all the ins and outs and key players of the conservative world. She did research for his books, his speeches, etc. She apparently like came to Hillsdale and immediately was like, oh my god, the president of the school is so amazing and then kind of put her hooks into the sun.

Because of that.

So according to Vanity Fair, which did a big article about this, which is going to be a source throughout, George Roche was very stalin, like he demanded loyalty, and he fired people that disagreed with him and crossed him. And no one was more fiercely loyal to him than his daughter in law Lisa. While her husband Ivy could not really find a place to fit in at Hillsdale and he was often like relegated to his father's shadow,

Lisa is thrilled. She runs to.

Tell Ivy at his racketball practice.

She's like, Babe, we're back in. She's so excited.

He's probably like, I don't really care about living with my dad. So then a day goes by, very early in the morning on Sunday, October seventeenth of nineteen ninety nine, Ivy gets a call that his dad is having an insolent reaction, which apparently this kind of thing happens to him like a few times a year, like, and so he calls nine to one one.

He goes to the hospital with him.

When he gets home, he's filling Lisa in on what happened and mentions, oh, by the way, Dad's new wife was there and everything seemed good. So he goes by the way, it looks like dad and new wife have reconciled.

Lisa flips out.

She apparently says oh shit, oh no, and runs off to the hospital, where apparently the new wife quickly kicked her out of the hospital room. So then she comes home and sends Ivy out on an errand while he's gone, she takes a revolver out of her husband's gun collection. She walks to this picturesque gazebo that's nearby, and she shoots herself, whoa. Ivy returns minutes later to find her lying there dead in a pool of blood, wearing Hillsdale College shorts and ll Beean sneakers.

He calls nine to one one.

He later spoke to authorities at length, and everyone is very surprised by how cold he is, Like he never cried. He's like he called his racketball partner and said, Lisa shot herself.

She has died.

Like He's just very and listen, we can't nobody reacts. Everybody wants everybody to react a certain way to death and to tragedy and stuff. So I can't blame the guy. I mean, she was probably until at least she was probably mentally torturing him for years, being super mean to him. But here's the thing, Lisa didn't just take her life because she got kicked out of the presidential mansion hours

I saw the look in his eyes. He was caught end quote.

So after Lisa's death, Ivy waited for some kind of consolation or apology from his dad, which duh, never came. These kind of men don't apologize. And he actually just jetted off to Hawaii on a belated honeymoon with Dean, his new wife, right after.

Lisa's funeral, because you got to smooth that over with her.

By the way, my daughter in La, I've been fucking for nineteen years and she did just take her own life because I married you. Ivy told one of the higher ups at the college about his dead wife's allegation, and knowing what a pr disaster that would be for a Christian conservative college, they quickly suspended Roche, and ten days later he resigned on November tenth, nineteen ninety nine,

What are you literally talking about?

Like you're like the poster boy for bad values and corruption right now. And so, after twenty eight years of helping Hillsdale have their big glow up, this sixty four year old Roche was out, and he dropped out of public sight and as of January two thousand, nobody even knew where he was. Like a year later, no one knew where George Roche was. Meanwhile, the scandal becomes national news. Okay, no one is surprised to hear about this affair. They say,

End quote.

So one of Lisa's friends recalls her telling that story on two separate occasions, and the friend says, Ivy was there both times she said it. He didn't crack a smile, He just sat there and took it. She said, it was so awkward. It was like one of those she said, quote, one of those moments where you look at your shoes.

Like, so the students are torn.

Some of them are like, you know, men are fallible, and some of them are like, no, he's a hypocrite who betrayed the values that he and the college purported to stand for. So, you know, but a lot of students and their families, I mean, the higher ups are just only worried about donations. They're only worried that this is going to fuck with their donations. And then students and their families are worried that this scandal is going

God and Jesus and this and that, and it's like yeah.

They did the casting. Well, I mean it's it's weird. It's weird.

Well, the guy like that plays roche like younger was like more handsome, Like you could kind of see why people were like in old photos of him, he looks like a sort of handsome Republican looking dude, you know, when he's younger. In the one picture that comes up when you first google him, he kind of looks like Steve Carell from the Office. But I agree the guy from the episode was not really moving anything from moving the needle for me, but uh yeah, they're.

Just you're right, it's so that Levitt woman, Yeah, just like wanting in to this institution that like is based on your subjugation.

Totally, and it's like she yeah and she was probably like but people said she did a lot of his ghost writing. She wrote speeches for him, like she was super important to his operation, and whether or not he was had feelings for her, he kept this affair up, you know. Yeah, but in the show it's two years. In reality, they said it's nineteen years. Like since she was.

She's a psycho, like moving people in and out of this mansion on Whims.

It's like so weird. Vindictive, creep creepy creep.

Yeah, and they and like the National Review and a bunch of like places talk to like a lot of professors that like they talk to in the episode, people that acted that he acts just because they disagreed with him, and stuff like when that it's crazy, this is a season one episode. And that guy's like, yeah, the Origin of species is when I had to bounce when they

Never learns, no one ever, yeah turns. But no guests on this one.

So let's just dive right into that postpartum baby. I liked doing this episode Misleader season one. I mean, I like going back to the oldies where I sort of I know I've seen it like three times four times, but like I forget a little.

I'm saying it's already it's already out of my head.

I'll watch it right now and not know what happens that I remember that man's mustache.

That's uh, that's for sure. Just the guy that they cast.

I don't mean to judge people's looks, but it's like, this is not the man to throw your whole life away for.

But that's no.

Crime too, fun, Like, we're not even talking physical appearance. Like if this dude, you know, made cool, I don't know resin puppet.

Like, I don't even know. We wouldn't like that either.

That's what you're leaving your family, but you're throwing it all away for the Resin puppet guy.

It's not this guy.

But if this guy was a fun chef or like fought for civil rights, it'd be one thing. But he's also like this conservative Christian kind of hypocrite stealing money, like you know, he also has all these bad qualities that make him gross, because if he just had a little flare, we might all want to fuck him.

Yeah yeah, no, and it's all men are foul a. You know, it's men or it's they're human.

Yeah, but then they.

Watched this like upsetting wife just like sitting there like always always bored in the corner is knowing this dude is the worst.

Yeah yeah, so.

Stop impregnating your son's lovers, Like, do we have ways to get that not to happen. That's like the biggest advice I have for as few families, like stop fucking your kids' spouses.

Jesus, you're lucky.

What didn't you You're lucky one of you didn't end up falling off of a fucking a hug that turns into a dive off of a building like in trade.

But listen, this case was crazy.

I mean, like, this happened all while I was like about to go to college what like, and uh definitely wasn't looking at Hillsdale as a possible college, but I

Yeah, like are you even a virgin?

I just I get if you're abused, like wanting power to go towards power, but it's like we really need to break the cycle. Yeah, yeah, this whole like that's why old school, like these men are lame.

Get them out of our lives, and the women because they.

Become more evil because they're trying to suck up to a man who'll never respect them. Like that's the thing. It's like the Serene. I don't watch Handmaid's Tails, so tell me if I'm fully off. But it's like you're trying to earn the respect and love of this person who doesn't see you as humans. So then you're like being awful to your people for a person.

Who'll never they don't care. Yeah, they'll never choose you. They're never gonna pick you.

I don't know. It's all very upseting. I mean, i've known. Are they any more anti religious podcasts than us? I don't know. I don't have a number one anti religion Merry Christmas everyone. Well, No, it's like.

It's like, I respect anybody that wants to have religion in their life in a way that it doesn't affect it doesn't get forced on other people. If religion gives you hope and makes you help other people, wonderful. I just don't want it to be forced on other people. And I don't want it in our government. And I'm so sick of people calling this a Christian nation when it's.

Not, and making women feel inferior in themselves. Like to call yourself a rib is crazy, Yes, Like to think that you're not a full human with wants and needs and passions that you have to like succumb to the needs of someone else.

I don't get that. I don't get that. I don't know why.

Yeah, But the thing that I have, I said this on this pod before, like all these crowd wise like maybe they have a kink and they just don't get it, Like I think they might be just subs and sex and I'm like, if you're getting off on it, I'm into it.

But if you're just like iron and if it's just what you want, it's like that's the thing.

They they're like, what's so bad about promoting the family and being a mom? It's like nothing, nothing, I have nothing, no problem with it. I have a problem with you like going on and being like this is where we all belong.

Well, I actually have an.

All problem because if you're having and then you're making them cook and set the table and do all these things and raising them in this way and giving your boys freedom, that's.

A problem for me.

Like, well, right, you could choose to be a mother, yeah, and stay at home and do all that, but I don't trust you cannot. I don't think it's fair to force that on a girl, or like, oh, we need an daughter so she could take care of these other kids.

Yeah, I mean like plenty of us grew up with stay at home moms. Not me, but like other people grew up with stay at home moms and then they went on to become doctors and lawyers.

So it's not like just because you choose.

That doesn't mean it's what you force on your kids, and it doesn't mean you know it shouldn't be. That's where I also have a problem, you know, like you can just be like, for me, I've never been into the rat race. I've never been into going into an office and working and.

That's not for me.

My whole life is about having my kids and cooking and that's what I want to do.

But you better be.

Raising your kids to know that they have the option to go do be astronauts if they fucking want, you know.

Now, And that's that's the thing. It's like wanting to do.

That's incredible, But if it's indoctrinating, and like, how much freedom do you have? And if you leave this lifestyle, will your parents still like you or not? Like is it full rejection if you don't want to do that?

You know?

But also we have to be checking our bias. I mean, I'm not a parent, but you have to check your own biases constantly to make sure you're like, are you making sure that the boys set the table too? Are you making sure that like the boys are being respectful of their bodies and selves in junior high? That there are virginities tied to their worth, you know, like, but you're but also you have a kid, you think you know best. Of course you want to raise your kids

Yeah, when yeah, you have to check yourself a lot you want.

Of course, as a parent, I understand the thing of like, no, like what I like, do what I'm.

Doing, you don't like me?

It's great, So I understand that instinct. But it's like kids are individuals. Yeah, and I don't know. That's the whole thing is, like, I don't think I'm I don't know. I'm not trying to tell anybody to do anything. And that's like what is annoying to me about that side of the aisle is that not only do they want to do something, but they want everyone else to do it too. And I feel like that just makes me hate it, you know.

Yeah, why am I not like that?

I don't want any of these things, and I would never take it away from others. Yeah, unless you don't let your daughter have an abortion and she wants it and I'll help her.

Yeah, I will get if you give her my personal number, I'm taking her, all right?

Should we move into you?

Like?

I don't know if people could keep listening to our podcast. I feel like I beat a dead horse of the same six opinions every day.

I think everybody's frustrated and hopefully and most of them write us and tell us like it helps me get through the day that you guys feel the same way. I look, Look, if we're still doing this podcast in ten years, hopefully there'll be a better outlook. We'll all be like, isn't it great that everything's working perfectly and we're practically a socialist society? But we'll see. I don't have high hopes for that. Okay, let's get into our

Yeah, people deserve treats, you know, with the conversation with Snap earlier in the year, you know, a few months ago or last month where it's like eat beef and rice, it's like, yeah, I don't know, do you want a kid to have a cake or fun? And that's why I think toys for tots it's like obviously essentials. But I felt that way with the fire when I saw someone donate all these squash mollows, like, yeah, you know there's more I want kids have, whimsy because I just did.

Child, yeah yeah.

But brand name barbies are like twelve dollars, Like you can get really cool brand names and action figures of popular characters for not a lot of money. Yeah, if that's not a lot for you, no no pressure. But I'm just saying, like you can really make a kid's streams come true. Whatever, Yeah, start a little drive at your work. Let's get some joy in this holiday. I

I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna make the pancakes have fun. Like I'm like, look, I had to google.

What's the best cooking oil because I have no idea. Yeah, but because you wanted to be multipurpose. I don't want to give someone olive oil with you know what I mean. But I've got I got people vegetable, but I definitely have to google it, Like.

I didn't get oil.

Is that the same?

Yeah?

It said that was the most like like multipurpose the verse.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Pop Season twelve, Episode eleven. I can't wait for this one. Yeah, next week, come watch us. I'm uh, I love our podcasts, so thank you, we love it too.

Next next week come for Pop and uh and we'll see you guys. Then we've got some also some specials coming up in the in in a few weeks.

Just to tease.

I don't think anyone listens this long. They do, they do. Remember when we had a code word? Oh yeah, we said, right, David Lynch in the comments, let's.

Do another code word. Let's do Epstein files. Yes files.

If if you listen to this late in the episode, please comment epstein files on the Instagram post for this episode. Go to our Instagram and just write Epstein files and comments. Thank you so much for your service. We'll see you next week.

Bye.

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