Maternal Instincts w/ Zach McGowen

Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, Hi everybody, and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

I'm one of your hosts, Kara Klink, and I'm.

Li'sa Tragger and we talk SVU, we talk crimes, We have celeb guests.

Today's a good one and.

Today is a great one. Yeah, and now we chit chat.

And I know I've talked about Lady Gaga so much and I truly apologize, But did you watch the video of the drag queen at the concert.

It's the best thing I've ever seen.

Wait, and everybody's following her and she's like, I'm a drag queen and they all think she's Lady Gaga.

Oh my god. That was so funny.

But I found one where they zoom in on the security guard and he was I think he was supposed to be watching.

No.

I saw a whole like Saint hoax, like the meme account did, like a full slideshow of like like the reaction of the security guard, like realizing that he's been following a drag queen instead of Lady Gagah.

So good, but I wonder if it's planned, because it was. It was incredible. It was like such good makeup and stuff. But it's really making me laugh. You know what else made me laugh? This is going back a few weeks or whatnot. But I loved everyone's responses for your birthday on the Instagram.

They really are so thoughtful.

They know they remember and like so many specific different things.

That was really nice.

And I hate to say, like I'm like technically pretty savvy, but like I don't think I even know how to do those kind of posts, Like I know how to do the ask a question thing, but like when you post the responses with like a fun picture and like gifts, I'm like, Lisa, I don't even know how to get there. Like that is fun. You did a lot of work for my birthday. Yeah, it was fun. It was fine, that will be it was. It was a great pleasure to do.

But it also made me laugh because I forgot that you led Andrea Bacelli.

To address his grip his wife wife was pulling him around like a dog. It was just like funny what they liked and remembered.

It was sweet. I enjoyed that. Wait.

So speaking of were like deep in the time machine this week because of travels and travails.

But I wanted to mention odd Non.

Sied getting his court thing, getting really from prison his trial. His verdict was, Oh my god, I'm like completely have no brain right now. My brain is like, swell, you're so overwhelmed with the emotion. I'm overwhelmed. His conviction was vacated.

I was.

I was like his trial was it was evacuated. I like, his conviction was vacated. This guy has been in prison for twenty three years for he has not left prison since he was seventeen years old, since the day he went in for being arrested, like arrested. They never gave him bail, which was a huge part of the which was a huge issue with the podcast that they talk about. Because I listened to Cereal twice through I was really obsessed.

Like everyone was.

I was like justice for Steve and Abray, and people were like, Kara, he did it, you know, Like so I don't know that. I do think the cops have to do the right job, and I don't think there were just a lot of unanswered weird questions in this, and I don't think that he was beyond a reasonable doubt. The person who killed this girl, like there were a lot of sketchy things.

I don't that missed me.

I didn't miss me because everyone was listening to it, but I was not hooked or paid attention to him.

Did you live in Chicago when it was on because it's from like Chicago radio or something, or were you already in New York? I have no idea, or was this I don't know when to see fifteen?

I think I had just moved to New York. I think in twenty fourteen. Gotcha, So I was in New York.

Yeah, okay, So anyway, a bunch of people have been messaging us because they have they have noted that I am obsessed with this case and thank you for reaching out. I was mouth on the floor, Like my sister immediately texted me, like I could not believe when it happened. And they have a month to retry him to enter in like new charges. But I just don't think they're gonna do it, Like I don't think that they can. I don't think they can really do it. He also

Not good for him. But anyway, what else is going on? I'm so fucked up.

Yeah, I don't know. Nothing's going on? Well, the football season. You want to talk to the NFL. Oh my god. So I was doing okay. So there's a guy at the comedy store and he does love pulling pranks, but I think he.

Pulls one that's so fucked up.

I was watching my friend and she was just like having a cigarette outside and he runs.

Up to her and goes, God, do you come on?

Come on?

And she goes what, and like she starts running panicked, and then he goes just kidding. And so he makes people think that they fully are like being called on stage.

And he has done this.

To me, Like I'll park in the parking lot and be like chill and then they'll be like come on your net and I and then you run and then it's like totally not it, And I'm like, you cannot do that.

A shitty fucking prink. I'm sorry. That is not a prank. That's making someone's blood pressure rise for no fucking reason.

Well, well, what I loved about the person who he did it to.

She did not put out her cigarette, though she ran with her cigarette, so she did get to at least come back and like finish her cigarette, but she was already so stressed that she went back inside to like wait for her spot. But like, and she's not a paid regular, so it's probably like even more stressful because you're.

Like, oh, to be here, I don't want to fuck every Yes, you don't want to fuck up. The pressure's on, and so.

I was just like, fuck, and so I have to remember that he does this, so.

Yeah, so you can just be like, are you being serious? Like, I mean, it would take the wind out of his sales if you just were like didn't believe him right away, right yeah, But in that moment, you're just yeah, hopefully I'll be on guard. I love drinks, but it's I don't know, that doesn't feel like a prank to me. It's just making someone feel like crazy.

I don't know. That feels like a gaslight. I don't know, like you did something wrong. Hurry, hurry.

You're like, like, I don't know, getting someone stressed, Like I do love a little I do love a little prank, but I like, I like prank phone calls and stuff sometimes when you're like, I don't know.

He also believes that RBG is the reason Roe v. Wade was overturned, and it's fully her fault. I have other friends that believe that. It's just like you can, I mean, you can believe that, like she should have retired this and that, but like to blame that one woman and not all the people that have tried to overturn it.

Yeah, it's like so crazy.

First of all, it's like blaming the goalie in a hockey game or something like, yeah, I guess the goal the did get past the goalie, but it first got past three other lines of defense before it got to.

The goalie, you know what I mean, Like, it's it's not her fault, but.

Like, I just don't know why you think it'd be more her fault than like Mitch McConnell's.

It's just like, I don't know.

It seems like people that are into Facebook, like it seems like something that they've read on Facebook, and it's like, well, it's not an opinion that they had on their own.

It's not something they came to on their own.

They saw something on Facebook that said that, and then they think they're like counterculture and super smart.

But I think it's like idiotic.

Two of my most liberal friends who did not know each other. I introduced them at a party and I walked away for like ten minutes, and when I came back, they were yelling at each other because he believes that Ruth Bader Ginsburg should have retired so that they could

A small apartment party.

Well yeah, it's like also like who could have known that everyone was going to vote for a man who can't read or spell the president? Yeah, and the rush like it's just like it is wild. Yeah, we couldn't have predicted the game show host presidency for sure.

And Obama tried to put another judge on. I mean it would have.

Yeah, it's just like it's fine to lump her in and like power is corrupt no matter what, Like power sucks. But like to take this person who has worked so hard for women's rights for decades and justice in this world and just fully put it on her shoulders, it's like crazy. And then this guy in the commo is like she should be rolling around in her grave. It's like you're a psychopath. And also those people like I'm

Yeah, that's the prank. It's like you're gonna do a prank.

You're gonna have this insane point of view and you're just gonna antagonize people because you don't know how to truly connect.

Yeah. I was like, you two are on the same side.

You're both my most like liberal pro Hillary like pro like you know, Democrat side. So like it's so weird that you're fighting about this.

What was the genders of them?

He the guy you brought it up was a guy, and then the pro RBG is a woman.

Yeah, yeah, men are not actually liberal ever. Well he's a.

Gay guy and super liberal, but you know him, Like, no.

It's always men.

Men are always liberal until a woman says no to that, you know what I mean. It's like men are all liberal until it's like their friend is a rapist. It's like men cannot fully escape their manhood ever.

So can I.

So yesterday I was in CBS buying deodorant and this crazy guy was in there and he was just ranting and he was going saying shit about Ukraine or whatever, and He's like, I'm allowed to say what I want. I can say what I want. And I'm just trying to get around him. And he goes like, ma'am, you don't even care. Nobody even cares. Ma'am, you don't care, And I go, I actually don't, and I like get around him because I'm like, I'm on the phone and

You see any difference?

Do you see any difference between you and the other person that he screamed at?

He was like, oh.

I was like, Yeah, he can handle a guy telling him I don't want to talk to you right now. He can't handle a woman being like not right now, sir, you know what I mean? Like, and he was just screaming at her.

Yeah, and they know they can get away with it.

I had an issue ones at a Buffalo exchange in.

Places I really thought you were gonna say Buffalo wild wings and this is fine, but I wanted it to be that.

So I went into, like bring a bunch of stuff, and there was a huge line. It was like probably spring cleaning times, and so it was like probably like twenty women in a line, and you're supposed to stand with your stuff. We all want to be browsing. Okay, you have to stand with their stuff. And this guy his stuff was there, but like he wasn't there. And so when he came back, I go, no, we're all

Got away with it.

And it's like, if this was twenty men, you wouldn't have pulled that shit. Yeah, you would not have cut twenty women in line sitting with her stuff and broken the rules like this. And then all the staff too, were like he comes here, lah blah blah blah, and it's like.

Fuck you.

You did it because you can get away with it. They do it because they can get away with it, and it was just frustrated. I was like, if this was twenty minute buffalo exchange, there's no fucking way you would be yelling and like not moving and not respecting what we're saying, Like we all want to browse. You think we all like sitting here waiting out like an hour to exchange your clothing, Like that's not that's.

Not the case here. Yeah.

Well, because my sister had friends from back in the day and every party he would bring up and it was finally like you all, you know, we all disagree with you. You know this, Yeah, we're asking you to stop bringing stop it, and so now they're not really friends and he's not invited to any events anymore because it's like they just can't they get off on pissing you off. It's like so weird, Like I have tons of opinions all the time. I'm not going to a

And even if you are, you're not going to a dinner where you know, everyone has like the opposite opinion of being like, guess what, bitches and just like throwing gas on the fire, you know. Anyway, another fuck the patriarchy intro from Lisa and Kara. Let's move on because we got to get the episode started. Of course, we need to tell you once again, I'm a broken record

Hold on to your butts.

All right, all right, Today's episode Maternal Instincts, Season seventeen, Episode six.

Fuck you, Hulu, it is not episode five, it is six.

Should we start a change dot org petition to get Hulu to renumber the episodes.

We must have enough connections at Hulu to like be like this needs to change.

I'm gonna set up a meeting. Yeah, yeah, you're ruining our lives.

Okay.

Anyway, We open on a bunch of hot babes playing violin and skin tight dresses. They're on stage at a concert and they are fusing.

Yeah, I forgot what episode this was. In the moment you said viol I am like I love this from sido.

These girls are like moving their hips to the sounds of the drums. They are sexual violinists and they will not apologize for it. So now out of fucking nowhere comes up a jazz flute soloist, a jazz floutist, and it's giving me like such big Michael Flatley, like Lord of the Dance vibes, just like the lighting and like everybody looks like they could be irish. Then this jazz guy comes out. He's definitely giving a more Russian vibe.

In Shameless, I would love to share I've probably shared this with you before, but him and Joan Cusack have a sexual relationship and Zach plays the sex addict and at one point he's bringing tarps out and lubes and like twenty five people are coming over for a giant gangbang, and like Joan Cusack like pegs him and stuff like it's a why.

I don't think I've ever realized Joan Cusack barely kissed anyone except for like Uncle Fester.

Like I know she pegs this. She doesn't usually get like really sexual roles.

And I noticed because Joan Cusack is my only celebrity comparison.

I'm sure I've mentioned that on the podcast. Yes, but I don't think you guys.

People just are like John Cusack. I mean like I took an acting class once where everyone had to look at everybody and tell everybody who your celebrity like is, like who you look like? Oh, she's a cross between so and so and so and so, and like they were fully stumped on me, Like I go, people have said Joan Cusack and they were like, I guess, like no one had anything for me. Like one person was like maybe Sam Bee. I was like, maybe you're that.

Also, the only person I've gotten is Torri Amos. Oh yeah, but my parents for some reason, they love Dancing with the Stars and for a while they thought I looked like Cheryl Burke and I'm like, I don't look like Cheryl Burke like at all, but they like cheered for her because they're like.

It's you, and like it's it's not that she's like Asian.

I mean, I love that for your parents. But also you do look like Tori Amos. I never put that together and I'm like a huge Tory fan. This is yahing my mind now, I like can't not see it. But that's the only thing I get. That's the only wow in the wild totally and like today specifically, I don't know what it is.

Maybe it's my new pieces in the front.

Yeah, okay, well wow, Okay, we're back to zaching so early.

Okay.

I love that Joe Joe Cusack is getting some from this man. He looks like he has a hot bod and then he is just like fully jamming. The girls look pumped, like this concert is running on all cylinders. Everyone's fucking freaking Okay. They is in the audience. That's what I want to know, That's what I I really want to know. Who's paying tickets for this? Like violin flute rock like like not but like jazzy rock concert. It's so confusing, but the crowd is there. They are

But anyway, that's who.

That's what my hat says. Yeah, no, remember my cherry bucket hat. Yeah it doesn't it say Donna bell Maybe I think it.

I can't. I don't remember what's on your chee bucket.

Heead.

I'm sorry, but listen.

They are they are, you know, bringing down the house, and the crowd loves it. And and now we cut to a much more somber event and it is Rollin's baby shower. We are in what looks like a bad, like weird looking ballroom or something.

And like I'll get into it a second.

Well, because you're in New York, there's not one nice restaurant you could rent a room in.

You have to be in a ballroom with nothing.

I mean, I don't care, truly, I'd rather see the inside of Rawlins's apartment decorated than this weird ballroom. Like it's so weird, and she doesn't have friends, Like who's there? I know, I don't know who any of these fucking people are, but it's a pretty packed shower. And her mother is played by Virginia Madsen, who's a very well known actress of.

Note.

I mean, I'm not going to go through her credits, but she's fair. And you know who her brother is, right, Virginia Madson's brother.

It's Michael Madson.

Michael Madson. I never brother together. They're siblings.

Wow.

Wow, never put that together because I'm kind of obsessed with him too, just from the quintin.

Was he in the Justin Bieber video? I don't know, Yeah,

And I'm like that is.

A recipe for burps and bloat if you ask me, and Rollins goes because that works, and it's like we're getting a SVU is very good at introducing a character and telling you pretty fucking quickly, like what their deal is, and that is what's happening here, Like this mom is a mess and you can kind of tell where a lot of Amanda's bullshit probably came from. So again, parties

You know that place I don't know.

Oh my god, when I lived in New York, if you watched like TV, like cable TV, which I'm sure like you barely did, Like because you're younger, you got these like they've parodied them on SNL. It's like basically like this old immigrant couple that I don't know where they're from, but they're so cute and they're like the Grand Prospect Hall in Brooklyn.

We make your dreams come through.

And it's just like dark weddings with like laser lights and like women wearing huge ball gowns.

It's like a very specific kind of wedding that would be.

But they've shot thirty Rock at the Grand Prospect Hall and apparently it's haunted and people saw all this ghosty shit when they were there. But anyway, that's the vibe I'm getting from the side room of the Amanda Rollins baby shower. It has like roosed curtains, a lot of brass, like it's just not nice. Benson is holding baby Noah and is like, oh, it's so great that you came to help Rowlins with the birth of the baby, like talking to Mama Rollins, and she's all like, well, I wouldn't.

Like, I hope we get her this season.

I hope we see her before Rollin's departure, Like, I hope I would love to see her set up on bipolar meds making amends.

I would love that.

I agree with you, But I don't know if the show is like trying to give a man like big closure around all the people that are in her orbit.

Well, hopefully they do. I hope so too.

Yeah, I wonder if she'll make it the whole season or if she's only filming, Like is she gonna leave like by episode two or like.

What's going on? You know? I wonder but we'll see.

It just makes me hate Dick Wolf, and I've never had these kind of feelings towards him, but like it makes me be like, what what are you doing?

I would say the combination of that coming out and the John Oliver piece has I've started to have a lot of feelings about Dick Wolf that I never had before in the past like three weeks, you know. So anyway, we know this is a sketchy situation, like why is Kim in a wig?

Why is she meeting a flute player? Like what the fuck is going on?

And he goes call me Anton, and I'm like, okay, Anton Smith, Like that's a great name. And he offers her a drink and she's like, don't you have a mini bar in your room? So she's like, let's get to it. I don't have time for this bar drink, Like, let's get to your room. And he's like, New York, everyone's in such a rush. And then we cut to Kim rifling through the guy's wallet, taking cash, like, putting her earrings back on, tiptoeing through the room. Then she

Yeah, I was gonna say, if you're one of our listeners that doesn't watch Sview at all, I would at least put this opener on. There's like no crime, there's no dead bodies, there's no blood, there's.

No screaming mother.

Like.

It's truly a flute concert and it is worth it. And it's a flute concert mixed with Roland's family dynamics, which is pretty much this entire episode. So we're in the precinct at the top of act one and Careese is like, hey, Rowin's your mom seems great, and Rolin's is like okay.

And that is such a pet peeve of mine.

Oh really, Like when you don't like someone deep in your life and then someone meets someone, they're like, oh my god, they're great, and it's like, yeah, everyone could be great for a lunch, Like stop getting involved in people's family dynamics.

Ye like, but because that is like what narcissists do. They like you're themselves to people like my dad. Everybody that meets him loves him. You know, they're like, your dad's so fun, and I'm like, okay, you know, like it's like a whole it's like their trick. So anyway, he asks Rowlins, oh do you like that wipe warmer I got you? My sister swears by it, and Rollins goes, oh, that was you in a way that implies she did not like the gift. And I am fully team Rolins

They suck.

They just I got rid of it immediately when I got it, I never used it.

It dries out. The wipes.

They are on every woman's registry and if you are pregnant or having a baby, they are not necessary. Babies do not give a shit if their wipes are hot or cold, so they stop the baby wipe talk when they notice that she Deputy Chief Dodds walks in with another dude who we quickly find out is baby Dodds. And this is Dodds's oldest son, played by Andy Carl, who is a Broadway baby. He played like the ups guy in Legally Blonde Musical and he's been in like a ton of Broadway stuff.

So nepotism strikes again. We talk about.

Nepotism on this podcast all the time, and this motherfucker is getting a job totally.

Based on his dad's connections.

So in Live's office, she's welcoming Baby Dodds and his dad's like bragging about all his achievements, how he signed up for Special Forces right out of college after nine to eleven, and baby Dad's is like, okay, Dad, settle down. He's like, I'm new to SVU and I have a lot to learn. So he's at least trying not to be like a punk ass, Like he's not showing up being like yeah, bow down like Ama Dods. You know,

So in the room.

This woman has a busted lip and she looks rough like she really looks like she has been attacked, like a great job to the makeup department, and the acting like she looks very shaken up. She says she heard banging and yelling outside her hotel room. When she opened the door, this guy just charged in, grabbing her. She screamed at him to stop, and he covered her mouth

So it's like.

Yeah, so he was all talk yeah, well, oh, anything you need, I'm here to learn, and.

It's like, no, you're not what Well, like I think he's realizing very quickly how different it is from like regular copping or whatever.

He wherever he's from. I forgot like where he came from. And so.

She tells liv how this man raped her and then she passed out, and then she says, I knew my attacker. It was Anton Krasna. Cough he's touring with Belladonne. It was the floutest so done done.

What's going on?

Next scene, Finn and Creesy are knocking on Anton's hotel room door and he opens the door shirtless, like wow, and he goes, wow, that was fast because he just called nine one one and they're like, why did you call one one? And he's like, oh, because my fifty thousand dollars flut is missing. And they're like, okay, flu boy, come down to the station and we'll file a report. So he thinks he's just going downtown to like deal

Like this is what wild connection.

But when I went to summer camp, Yo Yoma's kids were campers. He's like the most famous cellist in the world, and he left his cello one time in the back of a cab, which is worth like I mean probably half a million dollars at least, and like he got it back, but like, shit's crazy.

Anyway.

In one of the meeting rooms at the precinct, Cariese walks in and tells Anton, Oh, yeah, we put an apb out on the flute.

Which is so funny to me. We got an APB.

We're looking for a flute, like too funny, Like apbs are usually supposed to be on people or cars, I guess. And they're acting like they care about the flute, but they really want him to fess about his whereabouts vis a vis the assault, and Anton was like, I was at a show with Belladonna.

We had thunderous ovation.

And then they he goes they love my flute here, which I thought was so funny. He's like, oh yeah, Americans, they love my flute. And he tells them about meeting Savannah and he confesses that he's a happily married man, but she did come up for one drink and he's like, with the jet lag, I must have fallen asleep. When I woke up, she and the flute were gone. So it's like he never even thinks for a second this woman stole the flute.

Like he's just seems like an idiot.

And then they bring up Alessandra and he's like, oh no, did someone steal her violin? Like and he seems pretty like he seems concerned about her violin and like not like he's hiding something and Finn's like, no, she was assaulted, and Anton's very shocked, and then they tell him. She says he's the one that assaulted her, and he's like, that's impossible. She's on another floor, and he also says

I really like it.

This comedian is doing a bit where she goes, I want to start calling it raper. I'd like it to sound more like murderer or trader and less like florist and artist. Like it's a great comment, great point anyway, Lots of celebrities are rapers, is what I mean to say. Rollins is defending him like he is pretty famous. I mean, he's been honored by the King of Sweden. What are you talking about, Rollins?

And then she.

Goes, yeah, like he's just got a great reputation, he's beloved. It's not like there's whisperings about him, like he's not like a Louis c.

K type.

And then liv Is like, Rollins, remember your first case here with the Italian diplomat, and she's obviously referring to Scorched Earth, where you know an Italian diplomat rapes a hotel made based on Dominique strauss Khan and then Rollin says, yeah, but his affect just like doesn't match the profile. Baby Dodds walks in with security footage of Anton naked pounding

I can't get it open. And he's like he.

Doesn't really buy that, because remember how we're all supposed to think that Rollins is really great at tech. He's like, you can't already that, No, Remember, like in other Child, like Downloaded Child and other episodes we've done, they've been like it's been Rollin's being like tiptap tip tap, it's behind a fire and we're like why is Taru not here? Why are we leaving this up to Rollins? They act like Rollins has like sort of a skill set involving.

Tech, and I didn't know that.

I thought her skills were just watching a lot of TV shows and knowing about sports and being flirty and being a major flirt and a gambler.

But yeah, she knows tech.

So anyway, I think that's what gets Finn immediately a little suspicious. Like Rowlins is supposed to be good at tech. Rollins is like, it doesn't really matter. Anton's good for the assault, and Finn's like, yeah, but that girl probably drugged him. She goes she played his flute and then stole his flute, and it's like good one.

Finn. Rollins is like, yeah, but.

He's not a vic and it's it is kind of shady, Like Rollins ten minutes ago was like, I don't know, the guy's got a good reputation, like it seems like he might be a victim. And now the second she sees this is her sister, She's immediately.

Like this is cut and dry. This guy fucking did it.

Let's put him in jail forever, you know, Like it's kind of wild of Rollins, you know.

I just I don't get it.

It's like, you know, your sister is a just like stop yeah yeah, Like I mean it's crazy. How like later in this episode, the mom's like, you don't stand up for your family, and I'm like, she really fucking does for how what of a hot mess Kim is?

She's doing a lot bad right away for Kim, you know.

And so Finn is like, are you sure there's nothing on the video and she's like, no, there's nothing, and Finn's like something is up. Rollins is actually sketchy, and she goes walk me to the breakroom like their partners, they know each other. She's not going to get away with us for a like long, so she's like, I'm just gonna tell Finn. In the breakroom, she shows Finn the footage and like the like confesses about like the Kim of it all, and Rollins had no idea Kim

They always do this. They love to bluff.

They love to bluff people, and maybe it's shoddy police work, but it works a lot for them. Rollin's calls her mom frantically, and her mom is doing the same shit Kim does, like gas lighting and always being like super calm, like calm down, Darlin, and playing dumb like APB John, what do these words even mean?

Like she's being so annoying and.

Also sounds rich. But I never got the vibe that they were wealthy.

I know, But I think there's also a thing where like maybe like she's like a southern woman up in the city kind of trying to pretend to be something that she's not like she seems like she tries to buy like knockoffs at like TJ Max. You know what I mean to like look rich, sure than she is, but she does sound rich. Yeah, she's got the very Blanche Devereaux kind of voice going on, and Rollin says, here's what it means, Mama, she meets me now or

Girl.

Like the delusion with Kim is like so out of control, and the mom's like, still, I think you better talk to her. Back at the precinct, they're showing Anton photos of himself pushing his way into Alessandra's room and he's

I don't feel like because they were so focused on his it's like the attack he perpetrated, they really didn't focus on the attack on him, on him, and they should have taken him for swabs of everything immediately.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I do feel I don't. I feel like they took him down to the station the next day and it would he showed up shirtless and then like that's he's been there the whole time. So but now they're taking him to the hospital. But you're right,

So you can work with us or not work with us. It's totally up to you now.

Baby Dodds and Live are going through, uh, the info that they found out, which is that he found Savannah through Craigslist, he paid cash, and he used a fake name, and then Baby Dodds is like, well, I called the number and I booked an afternoon date with Savannah and he's like really smug about it, like I'm already going undercover, and Live is like, yeah, I don't really care about this sex worker.

I want to close out the rape case.

And Dods is like yeah, but if we don't track her down, he can claim we ignored that as a lead and like, honestly, that's what just happened in Cereal. But anyway, and with odd, Noan sayed getting his child overturned, and liv says she prefers to be kept in the loop and then walks off and he's like, okay, listen, he follows her. He's like, my dad said, I was supposed to take the pressure off of you, but if

It's just your first day at work and you're.

Kind of going off a little bit half cocked, and she's trying to get you to chill out. So she's like, but she's very diplomatic. She's like, why don't we just keep each other abreast.

You know?

And then Amanda and Kim meanwhile meet at an outdoor cafe. It very much feels like Bryant Park to me, but I can't tell you sure it is right.

It is Bryan Park. I have killed time in that yes, yeah. And there's like a fancy restaurant in there. And one time I took our friend Michael for his birthday lunch because he worked in that area.

Nice, so I took him there and then we used to do kream bar. Yeah. I love that part of New York. You.

I used to go in the summer and sit outside and like there'd be pop up like drink kiosks and stuff. And also I went ice skating there one time, at the same place where Jill Zarin did her ice skating thing sub zero or something like that was so fun.

Like, well because she believes it.

Yet she believes that everything's always taken her, like everybody's always kind of like cleaned up her messes for her. So she's like life is just rainbows and fucking you know, pop tarts or whatever. And she asks Rollins immediately, Wow, Amanda, are you having twins, which is like exactly what a pregnant woman wants to hear all the time, and tells Rollins that she did not drug Anton, and then he gave her the flu as a gift, of course, a

Pregnant, so pregnant, yeah, like I have so rare for her baby shower.

Yeah, yeah, it's so wild.

So now they're at a sleazy motel where Dodds is supposed to be meeting up with Savannah, but Kim's pimp is there and he and Dodds is like, and there's another girl that he brought, this redhead, and Dodds is like, I don't want her to no offense. My ex is

Like wait, that's our next we should do which characters are which housewives?

It's so fun.

Yeah, Kim, I would say, Kim Rollins is like a Marlowe trauma, deeply traumatized and lashes out.

And then she goes.

The mom's like that's not nice, and Kim's like, well she shot my boyfriend.

And Ro's like you set.

Me up and Kim's like, well you pulled the trigger and now I'm on the run. And then Rollins's like you robbed me, Like I don't know why I have to keep pointing out that you are a full criminal, and the mom's like, girls, girls, I'm gonna go get us some cocktails. And Rollin's is like, how dumb are you?

But also Amanda fucking arrests her like you're breaking every rule, you're being shady. You're just the shadiest Kim at the moment. Honestly, Yeah, yeah, just's annoying.

But like, but.

If she runs away and she's pregnant, is she gonna chase her down or shoot her?

No? But there shouldn't she should.

Have brought fit like, yeah, she's giving chances. Yeah, Like it's kind of like, what do you expect from these people you've known them, You're so like, I don't I want to feel bad. I obviously am frustrated, but it's just like Kim, I mean, you're Randa, You're also making the worst decision.

The move would have been to have like brought Finn and Creesy and been like just hang out over it, like hang out somewhere hidden, and if she tries to make a run for it, grab her. I'm gonna try to get her to turn herself in, but grab her if she if she runs, you're right, You're right. So now we're an interrogation. They've got slice. He has no idea where Savannah is. And Finn comes to tell liv that the DNA is back and Anton did rape Alessandra.

Like so what like the fuck happened?

So Finn's like to live okay, can we just shut the shit down about the sex worker? And she's like nah, like I gotta let baby Dodds have this, like he's working on it. I got to like let him have his little bone. Finn makes like some shady comment about baby Dodds and she goes, look, I asked you to take the sargeants examine.

You said no, So now we have baby Dodds deal with it.

So sliced lawyers up and Dodd threatens him a bunch and then they leave and Live tells Dodds that they're dropping the whole Savannah thing. They got the DNA, they tried to find her. We're in the clear, like we did we like we did our best efforts. And he's like, well, what about the image from the pawn shop, and Finn says Tyroue's backed up and Rollins went back to check

Oh?

I thought he meant like the pimp, like these are bad people, Like, uh, you know, like I think he's talking about Savannah too. He's like, these are all bad people. And it's like you kind of knew what you were getting into, like you know, like finding someone on Craigslist too. You know, it's not like you went with It's not like you found one of Delia or Ganzelle's higher end girls.

You're being charged with Alessandra's rape.

And he looks devastated and he's like, let me talk to Alessandra.

And they're like, yeah, that's absolutely not gonna happen.

So now liv is talking to Rollins and confronting her about all her sketchy behavior and she's obviously confessed about Kim. So Rollins is explaining, like I thought it was the best course of actually would be like setting up a meat walking her in without a struggle.

But then Finn goes, oh, but then.

She never showed up right, and Rollins says like, it's okay, buddy, you can stop lying for me now, like I'll take it from here. She's like, she did show up, but she was being a little baby bitch. She wouldn't listen

And Rolinds is like you.

Got to call off Baby Dodds and Lives like I can't, and liv says all the communication with Rollin's family from now on has got to be recorded, and you better figure out a way to get Kim's ass in here, and Rollins is like, I tried, she will not listen to me.

We all know how crazy she is.

Then Dodds walks in at that exact moment, Baby Dodds, and he's like guess what just got an ID with facial recognition from the pawn shop still and he obviously has id'ed Kim Rollins and he live asks him to close the door, and she tells him listen, I just found out myself. But Rollins and Finn are going to solve this, like, don't worry. But it took him two seconds to run it through facial idea, it feels like. And so all this stonewalling is very obvious that she's

It's really strange, like.

Go to Philadelphia, like I don't know upstairs caresium. Finn finds Slice on the floor of Amanda's apartment, bleeding from his nuts and they arrest him and.

He's like, are you kidding me?

You know, we got a lot of guys getting their dicks injured on this show. So now at the top of ack four. We're at the precincts. Kim's being let in in cuffs and she's like, can you please take these cuffs off me now? Like she thinks she's getting special treatment for being Kim's sister, and Finn just goes no, and her delusion, I feel like, is truly limitless. Like she acts like they're just hassling her and won't let

What did you do to her?

And Rollins is like, no, this dumb bitch decided to slice up Slice and Kim goes he had it come in very cell blocked Tango from Chicago. Baby Dodds lets them know that Slice is gonna pull through.

Thank god.

He lost a lot of blood, but he's gonna make it, and Live tells Finn to drive a man and her mom home and that she's going to talk to Kim, and Amanda is like, well, then I'm staying here if you're talking to Kim, and Lives like, actually, bitch, no you're not. I'm calling the shots now, Kim, keep your mouth shut till a lawyer gets here, which they that's a courtesy. They don't usually do that to people, like they usually try to get to them to talk before

You guys should not have telled him about the flute.

And it's like this is why she's so enraging, Like it truly is like always someone else's fault. It's not your fault you stole the flute. It's their fault. They told you're pimp about the flute. So she had to leave town and she's like, I gave my money to my mom who took it to Amanda's apartment, so I just went back to get it and Lives like okay, well, how did Slice find you, and the lawyer goes, why don't you ask him? He's been stalking her, and Kim's like, yeah,

Has two hundred shows. Why would he give you the flue? He's busy exactly.

So someone has my zoom recorder. I'm stolen.

Someone like fucked you so good. You're like, take my zoom recorder. Oh my god, you need to have this. That was the best night of my life. So the lawyer clarifies that her meeting between with Anton was totally legal.

They met online, they went on.

A date, and I guess because it was cash, they can't really prove that any money changed hands, so lives like, okay, so after one date, this guy sweated you so hard he gave you his fifty thousand dollars flute and she's like, yeah, he said it was insured. He wanted to help me get my life together, maybe help me go back to school, and then if there's any money left over, maybe give it to Amanda and the baby. And like it's so manipulative.

He offered me some, but I don't do drugs.

They make people do crazy things, and it's like, you did drugs like three episodes ago, Dog, And then the lawyer interrupts and says, let's stop here, and Kim is like grinning at this guy like a dork and is like, I will refer defer to mister d'sapio. And so Kim's like, oh, and how Antona assaulted that poor woman. If he hadn't done that, none of us would be in this situation. And it's like crazy, like how this girl plays gymnastics with her own mind.

So now we are in court at arraiment.

Krasnikov pleads not guilty while all the Belladonna women are in the courtroom, and his lawyer argues that he was under the influence of an anesthetic narcotic given to him without his consent by a known criminal. The Ada is like, well, that was an escort he hired who denies giving him anything, and there were no drugs found in his system, which is a huge, huge point of content, like in the episode,

Yeah, Like I don't know.

I just obviously this show, all the men are constantly guilty, but like I don't think the duds are rapist.

I know, but like he did it. It's just it's twists. It's like it is.

A but it's also crazy, like if you were drugged, okay, why would you go down to another floor and to the room of someone you knew if you were fully drugged, why didn't when you just bang on a bunch of rooms on your own door and it was banging.

I think he was banging on all the rooms and then she recognized him and opened it or no, he was.

Banging on her door and then she let the door. Yeah, and well no, he was maybe banging on other doors, but he went to a different floor.

Like it's kind of nuts.

He went to a different floor and went to a room if someone you knew, And I think that's what the cops at the beginning are, like, you knew where her room was, and he's like, oh, well we checked in together. Like that's like, you know, yeah it is. I agree with you. I don't think he did it, but they make this episode very nebulous, and you're kind of like, what did happen? Like because if you're just on a crazy drug binge that turns you violent, which,

No, you're right, all the drugs could incapacitate, not.

Like costage here, so like then it's like not only that, but you don't just hit your first victim.

You go down and you find someone that you know.

So maybe it's like something that was deep down beside inside him that he wanted to attack this woman.

I don't know.

They didn't even show at the beginning, like a look between him and her, you know what I mean, like that maybe he has a crush on her or something like that. Well, and I feel usually we're pretty discerning audience members that like when someone is lying up top, we kind of see it.

Yeah, we know what's up.

Like he did really play it as though he really had no idea what.

Was going on.

So but also he must have been kind of on something, because it's like, if you really wanted to just like rape this woman, it would have made a lot more sense to just walk down to her room and be like, hey, want to have a drink and then attack her rather than run through the hallways of a hotel.

Navy.

Maybe she wanted to talk him the most famous floutists in the world, Maybe she would have wanted.

But I know this, Oh, if.

He hadn't come in at her like that, yes, like yeah, if he had maybe gone, if he had maybe like actually tried it, like to hit on her, maybe yeah. So anyway, the Ada was like, no, he was on a sex and drinking binge turn violent.

Krasnikov speaks up and goes, this is a nightmare.

I don't remember any of this, and then Adya is like, we want remand your honor, like this dude is an international superstar floutist with the means to flee, and his lawyer is like, but he needs his passport to travel, and it's like, not a great argument, sir, That's exactly why they're taking it away from him. So he's not

Going to buy this drugging story?

Like they said there were no drugs found in his system, and she says he definitely knew what he was doing, so it's weird, like she doesn't even say, he seemed like a zombie, he seemed like an animal.

There was no getting through to him.

She says, like he seems like he knew exactly what he came there to do or whatever.

But again, yeah, she's the victim.

So our focus moves to Amanda, who is now chasing down mister DeSapio, trying to get him to understand how supremely fucked up her sister is.

And she's like, you don't.

Get it, Like Kim doesn't hear anything she doesn't want to hear. And Amanda says, you told her if she doesn't take this plea, she's looking at a long stretch right, and he's like, don't worry, I spoke to the eightya, We're all.

On the same page. Now we're back in court for Kim's arrangment.

Rollins is trying to get scooped from Creesy, like, do you think Dodds is run in his mouth about my

Real sisters, real sisters, very similar this time. You see their sisterly traits come out exactly, both flirt machines.

Yes.

D'sapio reluctantly says not guilty on all charges, which totally renegs the plea deal, and the ADA is like, okay, cool, we will proceed on all charges then, and they remand her to Rikers and she acts like she just won an award. Like Kim is like huge grid on her face and I think we don't know she's bipolar, yet I don't write I don't think we know she's by

I always feel like he says the wrong thing at the wrong time.

He's changed a lot, but at these early seasons, it's like, yeah, that's what she wants to hear right now that her sister's going to be in the headlines, Thank you so much, Cursy. So Amanda stops her mom and is like, you got to talk to Kim, mom.

She's making a mistake.

And now we see like exactly the delusional tree that Kim's apple came from, like she is Mama Rolins is like blaming it all on Amanda. If you hadn't arrested Kim, she'd be safe and out of town and a fucking fugitive of the law, and Amanda's like, uh, her pimp could have killed her, and her mom's like, oh, she handled that man.

Just fun. Kim can take care of herself. This was about you choosing work over.

Family, and it's like she literally chose her family over work for a lot of this episode.

And then Mama Rollins says, sorry, Darling.

I can't stay to help with the baby anymore, and it seems like You've got it all covered, and she's like, I'll be back for Kim's trial and then maybe by then you'll have learned the value of family. And like

Like, you guys have a lot going on.

So they wheel her out eventually Rollins and she's like it was just a blood pressure spike from stress.

I'm fine, and they're gonna drive her home now.

Live is in the office with eyebrows Dods adult dods and suggesting that Amanda maybe takes some time off before the baby, and then she He's like, yeah, I'll try to get her to do that, and then he's like, how's baby dods doing and lives like he's really stepping up, and she he goes, let me know about any issues. It's like, I don't really think that she needs to report to you. There's like a whole process with that, and then baby Dodds comes in and is like, oh,

What happens at.

SVU stays at SVU, and he gives her his word and they shake hands, and we get a feeling that we're not going to hate him the way we have hated Dodds, because Dodds has been such an asshole to Olivia for so many seasons.

No, but after watching this episode, I continued watching a few more and Patrimonial Burden is right after this, and we did that and it's like the ones set up based on the Duggers. But he is like shitting on

Oh yeah, he's not going to change in one episode, but I think we're not gonna fucking in like furiously hate it, Like there were episodes where I hated eyebrows so much. Like he's just being so awful to live, like just to as the show loves to do, just

I need to get to work, like it's.

Like, I don't have time to really be at Rikers and I'm also about to, like but pregnant, and Kim tells her, I just wanted you to know that everything's going to be all right, and she starts gushing about Lorenzo Dsapia, her lawyer, and how he wants to go to trial. He wanted to go to trial, but she called him off, and Roland's is like, wait, what are you even talking about? And she's like, Lorenzo said a lot of stuff when he met with the DA, like how you didn't tell live when you id'd me or

I thought, but is this what they're talking about? I don't know. Anyway, She's like, you're gambling addiction.

All that would have come up during the trial, and I didn't want to put you through the stress of testifying. So weird part of this like manipulative game she plays is that she sets up all this chaos and then acts like she's saving the day. And she's like, Lorenzo's gonna come up with another plea, like an umbrella plea, and I'm going to testify against Anton again, acting like

And I do think it's kind of.

Weird that the show never, like they don't always show you the court like verdict coming in, like the jury saying guilty, but they will have like a lot a throwaway line where it's like, by the way Anton's lawyer got him talked down to three months in jail, he'd been playing concerts by the end of the year, you know what I mean, or like something just to sum up what happened to Anton, Like in the SVU universe, we have no idea what the fuck happened to Anton?

No, but this is a really fun episode, lots of dynamics. I do want to know what happened to Anton, but I will tell you what happened in the real case.

I can't wait. I know nothing about it, all right.

So this guy that this story is based on, it's with an f is it's Stefan or Steven.

I think it's Stefan.

He's German, Yeah, but I only think of Bill Hayter, you know, Well.

I actually have a friend whose kid has named this and it's Stefan, So I don't know if it's like Stefan Stefan, but yeah, it does remind me of New York's hottest club DJ Snows and Lucci.

And his last name is Ursberger with a Z in there, so that's exciting. So this guy, he's a German national, he's a violinist. No flutes here, and at the time of the incident he was playing with his colleagues in the Lipzig String Quartet world renown, world renowned. Yeah, I guess people see this type of music, you know, there's all different types of people, and people are seeing this quartet and they're popular.

So me, it's just like when we're talking about the episode though, it's just like there's people that go see classical music and then there's people that go see like, you know, rocky more upbeat music. I just didn't know that there was like an overlap where like jazz flute violin would be super popular, but there is.

So he came to town with the quartet March twentieth, twenty fifteen for a brief tour and the concert was at the Library of Congress, which I think is cool.

Right, So when they came to town, where did he go DC?

Well, no, okay, So he came to the States with the quartet on March twentieth, twenty fifteen for a brief tour. It included the concert at the Library of Congress, which he did, and then the next one was going to be the Harvard Club, but he missed it because he wasn't police custody.

Ooh.

So he was accused of barging naked into the room of a sixty four year old woman at a midtown hotel in New York. He was staying in there while he was on tour, and it was March twenty seventh, twenty fifteen, was the day of the attack.

In New York City.

He was trying to strangle her and was charged with attempted murder, burglary, strangulation, and assault, and a civil suit from the woman. The woman's name is Pamela Robinson and she was a tourist from Asheville, North Carolina.

I've been there. Oh, gosh, me too. It's cute. It's fun. I like it there.

No, Ashville's great, it's like the artsy cute. It's not that there's not other great parts of North Carolina. But everyone says like Ashville's like the artsy kind of like hyah area.

I had good biscuits, I had a good hike, like it was. I stayed in a shady motel, I'll tell you that much, but a lot of.

Breweries and retired people. I was into it.

So she left with injuries, including bruising and burst blood vessels in her neck. So he really pressed down. I would say his defense was that he was drugged by a sex worker that he brought to his room earlier in the night of the attack.

Who done done was a man.

DNA style though this is all old. It was like someone that was trans but yeah, but I don't know if it was like a drag queen vibes or full trans vibe, like I don't know what it was. Yeah, yeah, so not you know, man DNA style.

I'm not like miss Jim.

Yeah, it was biologically male DNA. But if this person was presenting as a woman. We don't know if this person was presenting as a woman or.

Not, or a performer, like, we really don't know. Hotel video surveillance shows Oursburger going into his room accompanied by a woman who later turned out to be biologically Jerry Neptune aka Natalie Pros. So, okay, you know, this is very close to the episode.

I would say, okay, right, yeah, okay, you.

Just keep saying okay, no, no, no, no, no, Like, yeah, it's so close. I'm kind of thinking that maybe this was a transsext worker if they were presenting as a woman to the surveillance video, you know, like and but I don't.

Know if it's like for work or an all the time suggestionion. Yeah, yeah, like that's kind of like that does happen.

I only know what I know.

So the the tape showed that this person Neptune aka Natalie, left the room of Oursburger alone with the violinist's iPad under their arm. The tape also shows Oursburger stumble out of his room and was naked and mindlessly knocking on guest doors. He said that he remembered nothing at all from that night. He says that he was drugged at a bar and was disoriented for five hours, and that

Oh my god, can we make merch that says high criminal energy.

Yeah, so that's why I stumbled a little because I was like, wait, what is it? Yeah, I wonder what that means, just like probably going to Barney's and buying like yeah, I.

See charges that are out of the norm and like crazy, and you're like, loop, that's high criminal energy.

We should Yeah, next time we're out and about, we should be like, oh, that guy's giving.

Me the high criminal energy. But we got a scadadle out of here. So so this person just took an iPad and meanwhile, the violin is probably worth a lot.

More to take the violin unless you're in the no.

I don't know if you know that instruments are a lot but so much craftsmanship.

You should know that a lot goes into making it and maybe harder to sell.

You can sell an iPad like anywhere, and like no one's gonna bother to like by a violin.

You might have to go to like a special place to sell it. I don't know.

Yeah, But the NYPD said that they could not find his name on any complaints regarding stolen credit cards, so he was saying that he was robbed, but he didn't file any complaints but also if he was drugged and was woken up naked, then like where would he have had time to file the complaint. So I don't really know if that's even important. So basically, Pamela's lawsuit says that she answered the door of her room at the Hudson Hotel near Columbus Circle, and I have stayed there in twenty twelve.

Ahway is a nice It is gorgeous.

I mean it was. I got Comedy Central's like Comics to watch. It was my first time getting flown out and put out for something like that. And the rooms are tiny, It's New York. But yeah, very sexy, very comfortable. I was so happy to be there. But what was amazing is like the lobby's all plants. There's just like plant walls everywhere before plant walls were a thing, so it was.

It was a gorgeous hotel.

I remember having like great drinks, like I remember feeling very very special to be there.

Maybe we should go, but Hudson Hotel, it is nice, it's really interesting.

Okay, we're just never like none of my social engagements unless it's Broadway or ever like Uptown, you know what I mean.

I know I've spent a lot of time around Columbus Circle because I lived on the Upper West and I don't remember that hotel, but like I probably just I know, yeah, like I was staying in hotels.

You know, you should google the lobby unless they've remodeled. It was like fucking gorgeous. But I was also younger, like I might have higher standards. Now I might be not like, what is this trash?

But plants are? I'm not twenty twelve.

So around eight am, Pamela said that she answered the door and was confronted by mister Arsberger, who was completely naked, pushed his way into her room, seized her by the throat, and d quotes violently shook her and threw her around, bashing her head into the walls and shelves of the hotel room closet. She was saved by hotel employees who entered her room and pulled him off of her. They had heard her screams while they were looking for a loose naked man, so they saw like he was not.

Yeah, and the security footage shows that.

So I don't know if they just saw the security footage and were looking for him or people were calling, but they were running around looking for this naked man, heard her scream, managed to get him off of her, and then the violinists fled to his room and was arrested by police.

Shortly after.

After his arrest, his passport was seized and he was released on a one hundred thousand dollar or bail. But he was stuck in the US and for the case, he would stay at friends houses, but he yeah, he missed his wife, so he was kept here for fifteen

So I don't know, yeah, but a lot of.

You know, it's a little frustrating because in all of the statements from the quartet and all these musicians, like no one even mentioned Pamela. And it's like, even if you don't think the Stefan guy did anything like you can. It's very Erica Jane. Yeah, it's very Erica Jane, where it's like if you feel like you're gonna be, if you have empathy for these people, then then you're admitting

It's very boohoo.

I had to sell my violin for legal fees, and it's like, okay, but you did attack, physically attack a woman who has now scarred for life and might have like psychological and emotional trauma forever. So it's like I was very much annoyed by the whole music community that was just like, well, we have his back, he's been you know, he's the victim, and it's like, no, there was a victim, Like fuck off. So that's just very Erica Jane. And you can support him while also acknowledging

I mean, there's no signs.

I'm literally just really quickly googling like drugs that make you violent, and like obviously there are, but it's like cocaine, meth amphetamine, bath salts, synthetic marijuana, Like it's just not really the kind of thing that someone who's trying to rob you or fuck with you is going to sprinkle into your drink. Like you're not gonna be like here's a little cocaine, you know what I mean, and like.

Yeah, can you wake up from ketamine wild?

Or no?

I don't know. I guess I don't know.

I mean, I know people that go into a K hole therapeutically, so I don't really think about it, like as something that makes you. It's not on this list of this random website I'm on.

I don't know.

But also nothing was found, so the you know, the prosecutions, like he didn't have the necessary wherewithal to like commit this crime, but like there is no evidence. But whatever, he did get his passport back. He was able to go home after fifteen months. Newsday New York said the victim was satisfied with the plea and sentence. And but that's as prosecutors told the judge. Yeah, and I did not find any information about the civil sup but hopefully she got I hope she got the money.

Yeah.

And then The New York Post reported that Neptune also took a plea deal for robbing Oursburger.

And all of this for an iPad, Like you drugged someone and stole their iPad, but.

We don't know, there's no sign. That's what I like, because they also found him the next morning. They probably if he was saying he was drugged, they probably tested him. Like, but if she was okay with this plea and that, like she did really feel that he was crazed, and it wasn't a personal attack, like it was out of character, There wasn't direct motive. What if someone what if a big man opened the door, like and he got his ass kicked, you know, like it was she shouldn't have

I don't even like I guess it's like in his hallucination, he might have thought, this is a person who robbed me, This is a person who is fucking with me.

But like you're not worried.

I wos like you're definitely on something, right, I know the drugs aren't found.

I want to make I want to know what made her open the door, Like was it the most like did she just open like did she order room service?

Yeah, but like it was between the way that room service is going knock knock and the way a psycho naked man trying to assault you is probably knocking on your door. Right, don't those sound different? She's from North Carolina. I mean, who knows. It's just like it's fucked up. I would never blame this person.

It could happen to anybody, but I am just like teens were playing pranks and I called downstairs, going, I don't like this knocking.

I'm like, maybe it's because I'm so.

High, and like, yeah, because I could have maybe just opened her door to see what the noise was and he barged in. You know, like, who knows. I'm certainly not blaming her. It's just like, yeah, it's a weird case. I don't know. And is this guy a violent maniac?

I don't know.

The only thing that turns me off is that they're the must like the people that had his back didn't acknowledge that like someone.

Was Yeah, and it's probably traumatized. I mean, like that's horrible.

Oh my god.

Well, thank you for telling me about that. I truly knew nothing. And that is a very clear ripped from the headline's case, very clear.

Very ripped.

Anyway, we have and our guest is ripped. Yeah, I didn't you beat me to that.

But stay right there.

We'll be right back with our awesome guests.

Okay, guys.

Today's guest is an actor who has had some truly diverse roles. He was a regular on the show Black Sales, He's been an Agents of Shield, and he even got to play Joan Cusack's very kinky lover on Shameless. But you know him today as the flute playing possible criminal Anton Krasnikoff. Please enjoy our hang session with the very cool Zach McGowan.

With all of U sv you, I don't know if how familiar.

You know, they find a dead body, something always aggressive happens, but you playing the flute is the most wild start to any.

SVU see's history. It has been so requested.

Everyone's like, you gotta do the flute episode and get Zach McGowan.

We were like, yeah, we're working on it, and here you are.

It was like the strangest thing in the world doing that flute thing. Like I had been just playing like all these like kind of badass characters and stuff, and then I like showed up and like started my flute lessons and.

It was just a blast.

Like I kept thinking, what is it. It's like Anchorman or something. Is it Anchorman with the fluke?

Yeah, with the jazz flute? Yes, totally. So so wait, that's one of the things I was going to ask you, like.

Did you know how to play the flute? Did you they make you take lessons just so you could have basic handling skills.

Like what the deal?

So it was kind of funny. So no, I don't know how to play.

The flute, and I still don't know how to play the flute. But what they did do was uh, I mean basically, I guess the real incident was involved of a violinist like that was that was the actual you know, uh, you know, musical instrument that was you know, this guy

Know, you played it, but you played Yeah.

But then they had.

I mean, I think they also made it nice, you know, but yeah, it was it was like it was actually funny. We shot it at this nightclub. I forget what the nightclub is, but I had like it was like Marquee

So yeah, I was giving very big lord of the dance vibes, kind of like you know, like an instrumental rock concert almost.

In a way like that.

People were so psyched to see you guys, and then you're this like sexy internationally result floutest.

I think it's like, am I in like a I think I'm in like a tuxedo with tails or something.

Yeah, you're in like a pretty fancy outfit, and so are the women and it's really like, I don't know, it's just it's it's a wild opening for us for you, and it makes the episode very memorable.

And that will say that.

Props to all the women in that who are because they're actually awesome violinists like those really they're they're like you know, concert you know, whatever the term is. They're like real violinists to perform as well as actor actors as well. So they were like I was just trying to, you know, keep up with them.

Yeah, yeah, does it look I was like, does it look absurd? Or is this all right?

Like you know, And of course.

Was the Russian accent before after you were cast for this?

It was a requested I believe the the real person was like somewhere, you know, in Eastern Europe was the They were basically like, can you do an Eastern Europe or Russian accent? And I'd actually never done it in another project on TV or in film yet I've since done it quite a few times in Yeah, but it was the first time and they had to kind of like they had never heard it because I got the product on offer, so like I was just like showing

Well my yeah, I'm not. I'm not. I'm from New York.

Well, because we were stalking you on install, you know, doing some research and there were a lot of comments in Russian and with the accent.

I was like, I wonder, what's up.

Well, I think from other projects I've done and maybe even s FORU, I do have like a good Russian contingent of fans that I see active on you know, on the Internet and whatnot. So respect to all my Russian fans, and also have a lot of Russian friends and my like my brother speaks Russian fluently and stuff.

Yeah, because looking at your IMDb you've got like a couple of Anton's andres like maybe it's the long hair.

You're just like, you.

Know, whatever they hire me for. I enjoy acting.

So yeah, sometimes I got to play another Russian.

Character on Agents of Shield for a long time.

Oh yeah, his name was Anton, and actually they cut my hair off to play that Russian.

He had short hair, so I come off back.

You know, and you prefer long hair, like you and then they make you cut it or you grew it out for no.

I mean I I initially grew it out when I was just doing voiceover work and stuff and it didn't really matter. And I had a kid, and then I got cast with like a long hair roll and then people know me as having long hair. Except most of my life, my friends know me as the dude with the shaved head.

So it's you know, it's it's like, it's just hair.

I don't know.

Yeah, no, it's it's great hair. Yeah's say it's a signature. It's a signature of yours. Now, the long hair, I'm.

Going to shave it off for the you know, so that people stop using plastics.

I just saw that Momoa did that, so I'm going to do it too. Oh no, I just choke it. I'm not going to do that.

The new challenge.

My kids. My kids have too much fun braiding it right now.

I have three daughters, so they just like I should have come in full braids.

I could have.

Yeah.

See, I have a son who will not stop pulling my hair, so I consider shaving it all the time.

There you go, I have.

A son too. He likes to pull my hair too. They braid more. Some knots in there too.

Did you always plan on having tons of kids? Uh?

Yeah, I always knew I wanted kids.

I come from three, a family of three, and uh, you know, if my kids had my parents had stopped it one or two, I wouldn't be around.

So I and I think that, like it's like it's good to give.

It's kind of like it's easier to have two dogs than one dog because if if you have one dog, then you're the other.

Dog, you know, like the place of dog.

So it's that like I think, I think I really benefit from that. Like my kids just like all play together, and I can just watch with a cold beer.

Don't don't don't pull it, don't pull his hair. You know.

Wow, that's really nice because I have two and it's like breaking me. So I'm kind of like, wow, how do you do four? But then people tell me that one to two is a huge difference, But then three four, it's like, are we have the same agent? Me and Lisa and she goes The third's like a house cat, like.

You don't even know, like once you live in the madness. You live in the madness, so yeah, yeah, then you know it's just.

One what's one more? Two more?

Yeah?

Yeah, I'm from six kids, so I know the madness too.

Here you go, but you're serious, that's serious.

Six is it's it's mentally ill a little bit. But I saw TBT. You've been with your wife for so long?

Yeah, since like I mean the millennium, you know, like since that happened, you know.

Like half book.

Actually we realized we were just now over half our life with each other, just you know, like where yeah, yeah, because we were We got together when we were when I was twenty and she was nineteen.

So oh my gosh, I'm.

Forty two and she's about to turn forty two.

So we we realized we were like, wait a second, we've been together longer than yeah, then.

We haven't been together. Yeah, wow, incredible, long time, long time. What's the secret?

I have?

No I offer, no, you know, I'm not an expert. I just somehow, like you know, fell into this and it's worked, and you know, I don't know.

That's yeah.

I try my best. I also make dinner lot. That's a big one.

I think.

Oh I love that. Yeah, I love.

That's help special dish? What's your go to great dish?

I mean I eat a lot of just meat and vegetables, so just like different different preparations of different meats and fishes and different vegetables. I also have a vegetable garden, so that also maybe maybe she keeps me around for.

That one too.

Yeah a farmer really.

Yeah.

Actually we moved out into we live like on six acres now, like outside of a city, and it's it's really nice, like.

We are you outside of New York City or outside of Los.

Angeles, outside of LA kind of between between LA and San Diego and the mountains.

Oh nice, nice, really nice.

Yeah, we we loved it.

We're here like a year and a half now and we're like, oh, this is how maybe you're supposed to live.

Like I grew up.

I grew up very tight, you know, two better apartment in New York and that was awesome too, but like I don't know, like my kids are out here like catching frogs and it's pretty cool.

Yeah, totally different.

They're like I just picked an apple and I'm like, great, eat the apple.

Wow. So so you were born and raised in New York City. I think I saw you went to Fields, did Yes?

Yes? Cool?

And and so was it cool to get on Law and Order because it's such a New Yorker show, Like it's such a New York you know, institution.

So it's so funny because right, it's like the joke is every actor's like auditioned a hundred times for Law and Order, and especially like a New York actor like myself. I'm from New York, but like when I was acting in New York, I was like so low on the totem pole there that like I wasn't getting any any

Was awesome and he couldn't be like more as you hope he would be, you know what I mean.

Yes, he's just so awesome and he's also like my new favorite person to follow on Twitter. He's just like his his like truth, yes, exactly, exactly, exactly.

Yeah, Coach Ice is on there dropping knowledge bombs like every day.

Any particular story or like fact that he dropped on set that you remember, any fun we heard.

He talks a lot about signing your own checks. He told some people that, Yeah.

He's he's very entrepreneurial and and very like, you know, hustle hustle, and I love that. He was also like, I was lucky he was a big Black Sales fan and that was the show I had just finished, right, so like I could kind of do no wrong, you know, because he you know, it's like when you when you come on a show, like you're either like you know, just some guy who just you know, they either you know, just like oh this is ay, or.

If you're lucky, they might know you from something.

And I've had the lucky experience of guesting a lot on shows where someone likes something I've done in the past, and it's just like you're like immediately in the club, you don't have to like, as long as you know your lines, you're gonna be fine.

You know. Yeah, it's one of those you know, but he was super cool.

Yeah, he dropped a lot of I mean one of one of it, like just his his approach to acting is pretty cool too, Like he's like, I'm not acting and he's just like making it. You know, He's like making it work at the moment, which actually I really like.

And they're both like that, which is cool. I like that.

Oh wow, Well do you know Joan is an s Vulm.

I'm sure she's like, you know, what has Joan done?

You know.

It's like, well, I'm a big shameless person, so I'm glad that you brought up Joan before I did. But I loved your guys' relationship on that show.

So wacky, so dirty, Yes, and so many.

Alums Jeremy Allen White, Ethan Cameron Man, like Steve Howie.

They've all done SVU. So I don't know if you've ever chatted with them about it or.

It's come up or you've seen them and just I loved the twisted Joan Cusack storyline.

It was so good.

Yeah, I mean that was that was so cool obviously, I mean I came on as a guest star and then that just grew into what it was.

And you know, that's always.

You know, it's like your hope every time you are in a guest star, except when you're in SVU and you're like, oh, I go to the jail at the end of this one. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, And I'm you know, I actually don't really like this guy all that much. I should go to jail probably, even though like he played the flute nicely.

But yeah, I think most people and s or happy to kind of like say goodbye after a couple of weeks to their character.

Yeah.

Absolutely, although I mean, you know, listen, if you know, if they're out there listening, you cut this hair. Yeah.

I am from New York. There's a lot of cops in my family.

It's all I'm saying, you know, Oh, they bring people back all the time, and they won't even care about cutting your hair. They'll just bring you back looking exactly the same and call you something different.

They do that all the time.

That's what I've heard.

I've heard that what would be what would be a dream role if you came back to sv what would you like to be? Would you just to be like a psycho killer or like a no?

Honestly, like I I've always wanted to be a detective.

I'm always playing one. I've never gotten to play one on TV.

That would be something that I really love to try to to do in my life. I've gotten to do it in movies like where I've played kind of like investigative type roles which are really fun and you know, be fun to do on a TV show one day. Although I do play a good criminal of a week two so.

I do that well.

And Lindsey you're a co star, the one in the bob Wigs. She's been a guest on the pod. Do you guys have we did?

I had? You know, I had a blast. I mean it was it was.

You're shooting SVU in New York And also I mean it's crazy, it's like they shoot in the Chelsea Piers studio there where, Like I used to play ice hockey in the Inky Ye and like the Skyrink, but I

You know. It's like I have families still in New York and went not but a lot of them live in Long Island.

And like when I I feel like I when I go to New York the most is when I'm like working on a New York TV show and then I'm like back living in the city and you know, yeah getting a bacon, egg and cheese on the corner, and you know.

Have the kids come back? Have you brought them to New York? Yeah?

Yeah, they they've They've seen it all.

They they love New York pizza and uh, you know, and Grace for Paia hot Dogs which is still there.

Grace for hot Dogs are still there.

Yeah.

I'm from like Chicago Land area and hot dogs are just better.

There we got, here we go.

I agree.

I agree that a vann and beef hot dogs, all this stuff can't be beaten. But there is the simplicity of this, like the dirty water dog in New York, just a quick, quick, little snack.

So now this segues into a question I have for you, because you know you're very physically fit, you have four kids.

What's going on? What's the what's the regimen here?

You're not eating dirty hot dogs every day, dirty water hot dogs every day.

Believe it or not.

I do eat a lot of uh stuff that you wouldn't kind of think. I I just always kind of maintained a certain like you know, fitness line with which I kind of just operate and I do a lot of like inner minute fasting is something that I've been doing now. I've been doing that now for like twenty

I kind of like, I I think things.

Are a lot simpler, and that like we are just like overthink the entire world like and that we're just like our worst enemies, and so I just try to keep it simple. I'm like, all right, well, if I don't eat until after five o'clock today and I'm pretty physically active that day, and you know, I also work out, definitely, I'm going to be in a good play and then I'll just eat whatever I want because I'll be hungry, and then just drink a lot of water and also lots of light beer.

Also, I do.

Keeping it light. I'm a light beer fan. I'm a bud light girl.

But are you like michelob Ultra, do you go as low as you can go with those.

Cows or what?

I just know not at all.

I just like I like watery light beer, like I like, you know, like cors light, bud light, yes, Millery life to me.

Is like what beer tastes like. I'm like, that is beer light, Watery beer is beer and people are like, no, I like IPA. I'm like, that's to me a different beverage so heavy, it's too heavy, It's got a million different I feel like I'm eating leaves and for like like moss, like, I just want something that tastes like beer.

I literally have a refrigerator just full of different kinds of light beer, and I have like a whole selection. I have like Mexican light beer, right, and you like, I have like American light beer, and I've got, you know, one of the best light beers by the ways, the Japanese light beers.

Oh yeah, those are those on a whole nother level.

So good with sushi too, Like just a nice light beer with sushi.

Oh yeah. I mean to me, I think like I don't think you know.

I mean, I know alcohol is bad for you, and if you drink too much of it, it's.

Tough to you. But I've never found it to be a problem. And I don't know.

I'm forty two. I stay in pretty good shape. I run a lot, I do pull ups a lot. I do you know, I'm always just I just know, like I show up on at work all the time and they're like, hey, Sue, you're not wearing any clothing for this, and I'm like, okay, you know. I mean that's just kind of part of the giga being an actor. I mean even on s for You, they were like, you're going to answer the door shirtless, like you just woke up and they're at the door, and I was like.

All right.

One of my favorite stories.

So our friend Langston had a scene in the show Insecure where his like he's his butt's out and he's pretty naked and he worked out hard and then someone came up to him and goes, man, thank you for representing a regular body on TV.

He's like, it worked out so hard. Oh my gosh.

I do love that scene where you come to the door and you're like, did you guys find my flute?

And like you have why they're there?

I know, I just played that like because what I did because they we didn't. You know.

When I'd ask, I'd be like, so did he do this or he didn't do this, and they'd.

Be like oh, and I'd be like, well, I was just like I'm just gonna play it like if he did, he has no recollection of it, right, you know, like he's got maybe some sort of drug issue and he blacks out and he takes who knows what, percocetes or something and he's blacked out and he ran down the hallway who knows.

So I played it like that. So he was just like, you don't my flute.

You know, I totally forgot about all that footage of you running in the hallway naked.

They must have made you shoot that separate. Yeah.

I was just running around a hallway of a hotel in Manhattan.

Like they didn't even have it close.

There was like random people walking down the hallway.

Really, Oh my god.

That's like one of those moments where you're like, this is my career, this is how I'm supporting my family.

You know.

I have a lot of those moments, you know, just you know, you're just like you're standing somewhere or like I do a lot of like physical I just did a couple of Westerns, and like recently I was just like I was on this horse and it was like lost its footing on like this very rocky slope and it was just like sliding down this slope like uncontrollably. And I was like, this is my life, this is what I do. I guess horse.

Wait, any other things you remember that you think our listeners would love tidbits from your time working on this show.

I regret to say, I can't remember the director's name. What was his name?

Michael Pressman, Yes.

Michael Pressman. So he was really awesome.

He's like a just a veteran director. You know, you look at this, you know, he just did everything. One of the things I always like to do when I work with like veterans in the industry. I just asked them, like, you know, what was your biggest mistake? You know, as was I was just when I'm working with people, like you know, you work with a big actor.

You just go like, what was your biggest mistake?

And such a good question.

Yeah, and just just to see, like, you know, where they really felt like they could have taken a different trajectory or done something even better or whatever. And Michael was like, man, back in the eighties, I got this script from my Buddy dan Ackroyd about these crazy guys running around Manhattan believed in ghosts and they were shooting electric laser beams or something at them, and I was like.

What the fuck is this?

And I passed on directing it. It was Ghostbusters, and I was like, you know what I mean, and like, those stories are like the things that make me like.

Do everything as an actor, like because I can't.

Like almost every every one of those I've heard from directors, actress producers is from something they thought they were too good to do, like they were like you know, and then it was this it turned in and and so I just like when people are like, why did you do this silly thing, I'm like, well, one, I have children and I take care of.

Them this way.

But two was how am I supposed to know if it was going to be awesome or not? Like yeah, I just it's like words on a page when it gets to me, like.

You know, yeah, you never know what's going to like fully pop off, because yeah, Ghostbusters could have sounded insane and like too crazy back then, but wow, he actually Michael Pressman is going to do our podcast.

You should I've just.

Taken his best story then I'm just Nike.

Sorry. We'll ask him about it.

We'll ask Hi about it when we we're just trying to figure out the right episode to.

Have him on for.

But uh wait, can I ask you saying so.

I know that this.

I know Wikipedia is full of lies a lot of the time, but Wikipedia does say that you are cousins with Rose McGowan.

Is that true or false?

I mean I have never met Rose, and in my family, we would love to meet Rose. I'm a big fan of a lot of stuff she's done, and you know, she's always out there, so I would I'd happily meet her. But I know I'm not her cousin.

I've never even met her.

Funny, Wikipedia is full of garbage, but also full of a lot of facts.

It's hard, it's so funny.

Like a lot of times I find myself I mean, you guys didn't play but like you know, I'll just be at like someone's house and they're just like they'll just be reading like facts about me online and I'm like news to me.

Yeah, And because I don't know.

Like I guess some people like spend a lot of time trying to make sure everything is perfect out there. I'm just like, I don't know, there's like pictures of me naked, so am I gonna do?

That's it?

We will guess worse than that.

Like, oh my god. I was like, Rose is in a wild.

Yeah, she's in an iconic SPU episode. So that's why the only reason I was really concerned. I normally wouldn't be like, do you have any famous relative.

She's like dating her brother and their grifters and they were at a sex club together, tricking like regular men into giving their life savings to Rose McGowan.

It's like, pretty good.

I really want to watch this episode now, this is like, yeah, this is the best one.

I'm gonna like become a Wikipedia editor so that I can go take that off of your Wikipedia.

I think I think.

They've closed that out now, like you have you have to have already been a Wikipedia I was trying. I was like, maybe I should be able to say something about my own page, and they were like, what do you I Basically the response was.

Like, what do you know about Zach McGowan. I was like, clearly nothing.

Yeah, never well, if you know this could be a source, this is a source. Now you on this podcast, So somebody if you're listening to this podcast and you're Wikipedia editor, you got to get over and say is not related to Rose McGowan and then list us as a footnote?

Yeah? Is that? Is that how it works? Now?

Like this is a primary source now right, because this is me saying it.

Yeah, there you go.

Do you have anything like coming up that you want our listeners besides correcting your Wikipedia other things our listeners should be checking out about you?

Well, yeah, I'm always doing you know, I'm always doing new indie movies and TV projects. I got a couple indie movie one out right now called Murder Yellowstone City.

That's oh yeah, it's always fun.

I always check to pug plug those because they don't get advertising.

Indies don't really get advertising unless you plug them. Because that's just like how it works.

And is that streaming like where people watatch streaming?

You can get that on Amazon or Apple or pretty much anywhere.

I got another one coming out.

Uh in a little while, but that's they haven't released that, so I can't tell.

Yeah, yeah, I guess.

And then another one actually, another one coming out in October, and then one.

In January awesome, and then some TV stuff you know, that's out there, but it's now like nowadays, it's like all in the ether and you know, like I don't even know because you can't.

It's like one of my problems.

With TV right now is like I I feel like I have to have like seventy five different subscriptions, and I was like, whatever happened to this?

I want the cable box?

Can they make the cable I'll go back, It'll go full circle again.

They're gonna because now they're all buying each other. I feel like we have a couple more years to wear back.

And then we'll just have a box and they'll have all.

The time and you can buy again.

Yeah, you can buy premium whatever. I want this one. I want HBO, I want the Yeah.

Everybody keeps telling me all this stuff that's so good to watch on Apple Plus and that's like the only one I don't pay for, and I'm like, I refuse to just pay for every single one. So I'm like, we're you out on all these good shows.

Yeah, it's like you have two kids, like I have four kids.

Like you look at it and you're like, am I really going to spend like four hundred dollars on subscriptions to all these things this year, like this this month, or am I going to like buy my kid a new bike this month?

Instead?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Is there anything that you've done that your kids have been able to watch?

There?

There are a few. I did a show called thee hundred on the CW that is PG. Thirteen, and I played like a King and they got to watch that, and or at least my two older ones got to watch that. And then I did a Scorpion King movie I did and that's PG. Thirteen and and they got to watch that as well. So according to them, I always play kings. But meanwhile, that's not you know what

And when when is it? When is it okay?

When is it okay to let one's daughter watch Shameless?

Like? Yeah, when is it okay to see her dad do a six flute solo?

But then maybe assault someone? We don't know? But were they into it? They like loved I'm sure.

Oh well the hundred Day, my oldest really loved it.

And what's funny is they already knew like most of the cast who like come over and play with.

Them, and they were like, oh my god.

You know that was experience for them, and they obviously loved it. They loved the Scorpion King movie. Wait, you know, I mean it's just like it's fantasy.

So they loved that.

And you know, I'm sure they'll get to watch at

You know, they can go to.

An antique shop and find a DVD player and see their grand great grandfather's work.

Yeah, they're like, this hologram doesn't work. I don't I don't know. These glasses don't take me to the metaverse.

Amazing, Zach, This was so fun, Lisa Day of any other last minute questions, No, this was so fun. Thanks was great, Thank you so much. I had fun bud light friends. He's cool. He's cool. Yeah, I like his dad style, light beer, let the kids hang out, braid your hair. He's fun and I love that he's like, listen, they always just tell me to take my shirt off at work, so gotta keep it tight.

Yeah.

Yeah, he does have like no sign of dad bod, no sight of dad bod for that guy at all.

He's living a dream life.

I really, it's really cool to meet people that you like from shows.

I know, I know, And he was just like a fund and he seems like he's really just like so grateful for like all the acting opportunities he's had, and like just a cool guy.

Yeah.

I hope I run into him. I'd love to cheer some nice light beers with him. And yes, watch him do pull ups. Okay, what's our post mortem? From maternal instincts?

Like we we we feel for Rollin's like when you have like a crazy mom or a crazy sibling like that can be really I mean, my mom and sister are not crazy. My dad's a little crazy, but like, just this poor fucking woman is just like a pregnant SVU detective.

She's got enough going on.

Can we just not start getting into trouble when she's in her third trimester?

Please? Like let her.

I wish that Kim could just yeah, like I said, go turn tricks in Philadelphia, go to DC. There's plenty of other places you can be a sex worker.

No, they get off on ruining her life and attention. But it's honestly like Rollin shouldn't have her back the moment she saw the footage. She should have they should have gone and arrested her sister. Like it's kind of like, you know what's gonna happen. This has been happening for decades. This isn't the first time she's set you up before, Like what.

Are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really don't understand that. Yeah, the chances and the chances. But I bet you people that are listening that are like I have a toxic sister or like a toxic mom, Like I have given them chance after a chance after chance, and it's like, I think you eventually have to get to a point where you're like the chances are done.

But let's say this wasn't television, she would not have a job anymore. Robin's right, like, you're okay, so you're pregnant and now you're you're don't have a job.

Are you proud? Like I it's it eventually, you know.

It's like the thing about your boat, Like you can't help someone if your boat is like you have to make sure your boat is floating before you bring more people into your boat. Yeah, but you can't just be thinking before you help somebody else get their mask on on the plane.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah, so anyway, but an amazing episode.

And if you're staying in hotel and.

You get a knock, that is not like just your friend coming over, Like, let's use our peopoles. Everybody, they're there for a reason, Like everybody check your not victim blaming, just saying everybody make sure it's not a drunk, drugged violinist banging down your I mean violinist or or floutist banging down your door. And also also I learned I

No, and even the real case, it's like nothing was found in your system, so like what is it?

But like for him too, it's like what could somebody give you that knocks you out and that when you wake up you're in a amnesic rage way.

You told me ambient and alcohol does that? I did remember, because you gave me an ambien to go to Australia. Yeah, and you were really strict with me. You're like, you take it right when you want to go to bed and don't fight you not and don't and do not fight it? Yeah, or crazy shit happens. And usually when people lose it on planes, it's ambient and alcohol.

No, yes, I agree, But he passed out first. That's what's so weird. It's like whatever she gave you made you pass out then made you rise up hours late.

That's not ambient and go.

Nuts, No, go crazy and go nuts because you are fighting it and your mind's like doing crazy things so you never do.

The sleep and you just go crazy.

Damn.

Yeah, because so it really strict with me.

You were like, dude, Yeah, like I put my sleep mask on as I took it, because I'm not really a pill popper, you know, and I'm not either, and I am literally just taken ambient on a couple of like you know, ten plus hour flights, and I just tell people, I'm like, don't take it and watch a movie. Don't take it, and like, you know, try to read a book. It's like, take it to close your eyes

Shit you hear about. Yeah, hopefully there's some pharmacists listening. Lee's brothers pharmacist. Maybe I'll ask him.

We should that king of that King of the red carpet, we should ask him.

I cannot wait to see him again and talk about that carpet. I think he knew like that press tour had been such a mess.

Yeah, darlings, don't do your darlings, what does it. Don't worry darling, don't worry darling.

And it was like, I just love that he came in with like none of that drama in his body or being and just like enjoyed the moment and had fun and like it's probably so funny in the.

Q and A, and just everybody knows what we're talking about, Asifal, who we both know through stand up is in that movie a very funny actor person, a great actor. He went on the Red carpet just in all stuff he got from Goodwill, which I fucking I stand.

I think that's so.

Fun and cool and like, who are you wearing? I don't know, I found it a Goodwill who cares? Like, you know, I think that's you know, Nikki Glazer does that. She does good Will shopping for her performance stresses. Oh really yeah cool, she.

Just goes to a town and gets a dress or like gets some dresses for sheep.

I think Whitney Cummings does that too. Oh wow.

Yeah, I feel because if you're on stage every night and people are taking photos and you don't want to be like fully stylist and looks constantly like it seems like Goodwill is a great option.

Yeah, if you need like seventy dresses in a year.

Yeah, and then you can kind of just like bring it back to Goodwill after if you want, or like donate it to someone.

I don't know.

You don't have to like keep it. But anyway, this was a great bucket. And you know not oh this. You know Nikki Glazer a stand up comment. She just had vocal surgery and she's like been on vocal rest, but she keeps like going out and going to concerts and I'm like, how do you.

How do you not talk? Yell?

No?

I literally think that I should have gotten my tonsils out years ago, and I've talked to a doctor about getting them out, and They're like, you'd have to be quiet for like two weeks. You'd have to not talk. And I'm like, I don't. I can't do it, So I guess I'll just have them in forever.

Yeah.

Someone, well, I think it was Lizzie Cooper. Someone told me I should go to a silent retreat. And I see you as Lizzie. I heard it on your botch, on your thought of it, same man, same. Oh my god. That is my punishment. If I commit a crime. You can either put me in jail or you can send me on a long silent retreat and I will have learned my lesson and that crime will not be committed again.

Oh god, this was fun.

Yeah, great episode. Let's get into what would Sister Peg do, our weekly segment where we give you guys a book, organization, article, something to give you more information about we talked about this week. Obviously, there's no organizations that deal with you know, floutists, assaulting people, or anything like that, but we wanted to point out an article featured in Psychology Today called five Strategies to Cope with Toxic family Members.

I know there's a lot of talk.

Today about toxic people in your life, but I think sometimes cope likeing or cutting out a person in your family who's toxic is a lot more difficult than just like a friend or a lover. So this article is written by Abigail Brunner, MD, and not only helps identify those toxic traits, but it also has a lot of great tips for creating boundaries, not engaging, and limiting your contact with that toxic family member. So you can check

Thank you for that. I love Psychology today.

It's one of my favorite magazines to buy out and about when I need to be because yeah, Cosmo doesn't work for me anymore. Next week we'll be doing Svengali Exciting Season nine, episode six. It's a real funky one, so stay tuned. Watch it Hulu, Peacock, VPNs. I don't know DBR to do, NBC. Does anyone watch it live? Hit us up?

If well no, these are old never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now. Hi, guys, don't forget to buy tickets for our tours.

See you next week.

By bye.

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And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Star, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media

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