Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
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Another episode of That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
I'm thrilled to be here.
It's Lisa and I'm Kara, your other hosts, and you know what we do on this podcast. It's sview episodes true crime. Usually a guest, but we're still supporting our SAG after strike and not having guests on the podcast, but hopefully in twenty twenty four we're back at you with some guests. In the meantime, absolutely all we get started.
Because yeah, it's yeah, I want to talk to the people. I miss it, I miss stuck it, I miss it. But I am enjoying this. So Thanksgiving is coming and on sunset there's a bowl a billboard for a horror Thanksgiving movie. Yes, another intro in a row. We are mentioning Halloween and horror not on purpose. Even this is see what isn't?
What is it?
So the billboard is like a giant turkey and then in it is a giant bloody knife and the handle is like sticking out.
So that's exciting.
And I'm on the IMDb of it right now, and it says after a Black Friday riot ends in tragedy, a mysterious Thanksgiving inspired killer terrorizes Plymouth, Massachusetts, the birthplace of the infamous holiday.
What's the movie called Thanksgiving? I was just called Thanksgiving?
Yes? And what other I mean?
There's that movie with what the fuck is her name? Mary to Cruise Dawson's Creek, Katie Holmes, Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes is in like Pieces of April. That's a Thanksgiving meal, But like what other Thanksgiving movies are there? But the main character, okay, is Rick Hoffman from Suits, the guy that everyone loves, So that's exciting to see him in a starring vehicle. But Gina Gershawn, Patrick Dempsey. So I'm honest, Yeah, I'm looking, And I got Tim Dylan's in it.
Tim Dillon's in it? Yes, Oh my my god? Why so wild? Wait?
The ultimate Thanksgiving movie is Adam's Family Values where they do a Thanksgiving play remember.
No, I oh, you're right, yes I do.
Remember.
I have a little summer camp that they go to that's and yeah, I'm.
Gonna with you, that's not a Thanksgiving movie. There's a Thanksgiving scene scene.
Okay, that is different when I you're right though, because when I look it up, like it's literally like a Charlie Brown Thanksgiving. I mean, there's really just not the Giving movies, which is wild because it is like there's a movie called Friendsgiving from twenty twenty on tub that has Wanda Sykes and it looks like Malan Ackerman, Kat Dennings, Jane Seymour, Aysha Tyler, Christine Taylor.
Here you check that out.
I'm excited to see. Oh there will be no leftovers. That's the little tagline.
Here will be no leftovers.
Because you're dead, bitch. They're not even paying us for this. But I'm excited. Oh yeah, So I'm looking at a photo of Patrick Dempsey like shooting off a gun at a Black Friday sale. Yeah, at rightmar at right, Maar, listen, I'm gonna watch it. I'm seeing it. I honestly a genre creating movie. Like I don't know why Thanksgiving doesn't have more movies. I guess Christmas is more universal and Thanksgiving is just for one country and it's based on
you know, lies and slaughter. Yeah, you're running a fun sweater. Oh thanks, stripey. Yeah, whereas I've never seen that before.
Oh you haven't.
I think I've warned around you. I got it off my mom group. You know where I do most of my shopping.
I ordered so much stuff on Asos, and I always hate this when I return more than I keep. Oh yeah, I mean it's fun getting money back. Like that's exciting because then it feels like you're winning something.
But it is a refund hits. Yeah, yeah, is that a real sock? No, I made it up.
I like it when the refund hits. I just keep looking at this Thanksgiving trailer over and over. They got me. Dude's billboards get me. That's how I went to go see Incubus. I saw a billboard.
You know what I never understand because they do this in LA all the time.
They put up billboards and it says sold out.
Oh is that to get you to go to like resale sites like I remember the first time I ever saw that. It was on sunset. There was an out like dou A Lipa. I was doing two nights somewhere. This was right when Dua Lipa was like hitting in twenty like seventeen, and it was like dua lipa, two shows sold out.
I was like, what's the point of this billboard? Take it down? Put up another artist?
Well, it's still pr and buzz and I because I wonder if like the people who own the Foura own the billboard you know where.
Yeah, you're right, it is pr and buzz. Though it looks good to be sold out, you know.
Yeah, the only thing I thought of was like that new casino that's advertising so much in La Ya Mohama or whatever.
Yeah, Jamava.
Jared is always joking, what are you taking me to Yamava?
So for me, when it's like when their shows are sold out, it's like, oh, well, who else is playing at Yaha Mava?
You know what I mean?
Like, oh, I haven't been to the formant? Who else is at the Fora? Or maybe like that too. But the billboards do work on me. Now I have just two examples, but I'm sucked in.
Yeah, I basically want to go to Yamava and start gambling.
At these I don't want to even know. I'm actually embarrassed. I've lost too much money. A few months ago in Vegas I really did. I did you still have one hundred dollars trip to Paris that you forgot to cash? So never forget that. Put that in the plus column. No, I'm I went too hard. I went too hard, I would say.
But I love gambling. Say love whatever sheike? Say love? What are you gonna do?
You know?
Money? Gampa? We are well should we?
I mean, there's been some Bravo gossip going around, but I know that we're in the time machine. This is going to be so old by the time we get to it.
But do we.
Think that this is the end for Ramona Singer? Do we think Ramona is gone now?
I mean, listen, I don't think she should have even been on.
Legacy like she I thought that was crazy. She is the reason the reboot happened. She is, But is it a testament to the like how she is a star because I don't know. But I guess a lot of them need to be put on pause. I don't know. I just she should have been done. She's a bad person. We've celebrated her enough, We've had fun times.
It's done. She will never grow, she will never learn.
But they're giving the lifetime achievement a word to an anti vaxer named Vicky Gumbelson. So I don't know what their deal is with who they take off and who they don't.
They don't want to take anyone off. It's only public. They knew about this, they knew this happened. Bravo does not care. Bravo only does you know if they're pushed against the wall. They straight up had an assault on below Deck down Under this year and didn't have a reunion because they didn't want to talk about it. Bravo did not mention it once, like they don't want to. They don't want to, they're not interested.
So nuts.
But yeah, I've been like a long time sort of like Ramona hater. I just like don't find her that funny or good. I know she stirs up good drama or whatever on their show, but she sucks so bad to me, and she just seems like a moron. And I know a lot of them, I don't know some of the other ones are more on. The morons really bother me Teresa Ramona, Like, I think they're dumb and I don't like to watch them.
But if you don't know what we're talking about.
Basically, Ramona used a racial slur in a text to a producer saying that I never said the racial slour and then wrote the racial slur. But she has already said it like anti Semitic stuff. She's already said racist stuff on the show. And so this was I guess the nail on the coffin for her.
But she's just a bad person because everyone can like like she just there's never accountability with her, there's never understanding. She's always I mean, what she did in the Berkshire is even lying about having visions of her past abuse to get on a private jet to party with Molly Simms and the Hamptons like she knows no low. She pulled up to Heather's house that trip and went is this the house or the garage?
Like she's a that's not even the.
Hurtful show, Like that's just it's you know, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything.
As Mama Trigger has taught us all.
I don't know, it's they're also really arbitrary with their decisions with Bravo.
It's always what they.
Can get away if they don't have to kick someone off. They don't want to, you know what I mean, Wait, did you watch the Newest celt Lake aka four weeks ago. You guys know Monica's mom is a problem.
Yeah.
I saw a couple of memes and I was like, uh oh, it's sitting on my DVR. Though, I'm gonna watch it, like as soon as we're done. Right now, it's bad.
Text me right after, like the it is the mom is bad. Anyone that took the mom's side at that Easter thing, you you better be walking the back now.
She is bad? Should I da Monica about it? She follows me.
We follow each other, yes, yes, why and hey, I'm sorry your mom sucks? Yo.
I don't know. I gotta I gotta watch it. I could.
I didn't like her from the last episode where she was like trying to get screen time and like apologizing for her daughter and stuff.
I hated that, but like, well, well it's classic narcissist stuff.
If I've learned anything from TikTok, where it's like you want we know someone like this, but where you want like strangers to like you over the people in your life, like you're very like oh I'm so oh, I am like polite to everyone, but the real people that know you know, the real you because you don't care, like they care so much about the perception.
That strangers have of them.
And that was like such a clear thing watching Monica do that, or Monica's mom I apologize.
Yeah, Monica's mom.
Oh, I okay, I just clicked on a tab on my computer that I realize I have up as a to read thing, which is the big quote unquote Bravo reckoning any of this I did.
And it was so boring I stopped. I go, I don't care. I don't care. I want them to. Like Danny Pellogrino was just on Watch What Happens Live and he kept saying it like Andy would ask him for opinions and he'd be like, I mean, it's horrible, but I love it on my TV and I'm grateful to have it, you know what I mean.
Like it is, it's fucked entertainment.
All I'm watching is sex crimes and women fighting, like that is my full existence.
But this article starts out with a housewife waking up in her own pee from peeing the bed.
Who are they talking about?
It's in New York because they said the same thing happened to them in Courtahana the year before. Yeah, but there's still this is a Mexico trip.
Yeah, but they.
Won't reveal because they want to keep working. The line was like, I still want to keep my dream nightmare of a job.
Dream nightmare.
And Leah, Leah McSweeney is suing Bravo. I just read yesterday.
I hate her.
She's in my top top least favorite housewife. She's a liar, Like there is no way the producers ever forced her to stay, and she even admitted that the producer said you can leave, but his tone made it seem like she couldn't. And it's like, no, you could have basically what she claimed on the trip. The girl's trip to Thailand was during a Hampton's trip on her season of
Real Houses of New York. Her grandmother was ill and dying and that the producers made her film and wouldn't let her go home, and then her grandma died, and it's like, there's no fucking way.
We've watched death on this show.
We know these women, and like we know the show inside and out, there's no fucking way. The producers might try to stir up trouble, but they can't, like they're gonna let you go home, They'll let you take care of your family. They shut things down, like even Southern charge like they are respectful of their personal lives.
And maybe I'm full like she admitted to lying. It's like I don't know.
She's also she's getting disability, like she's trying to get disability, like that's what it is, because she had, like you know, in Thailand, she was sick, and Bravo was straight up said, we make every accommodation for our housewife, and she is the most accommodating one that we have to deal with. Wow, it's just fucks for me to side with a giant company that I know, I'm sure does shady shit and gets people wasted and keeps them hung or whatever. But like,
I just can't. I really am not a Liah McSweeney fan at all. She was bad for the franchise. We don't want you on TV. We don't want you on the shows. It's not Bravo, it's not a lawsuit. We don't like you. That's why you're not on the show.
The fans don't like it from the beginning because I don't understand how she has a fucking brand called married to the Mob when she has nothing to do with the mafia. She's not Italian like I just think the whole her whole brand is built on nothing, a bullshit and it's its leisure.
She's just a fraud. I am not interesting and not fun. And she had one little catchphrase and people loved it. Do you remember what it was? It was like I elevate this or something. People love it.
Yeah, I elevate this shit. Yeah.
People like really clung to it in a way where I was like, what clip, That's what I love?
A clip forever? Baby, make it nice whip.
Okay, all right, Well, I gotta go because I have to read this fucking twelve million word article. Like I'm literally scrolling the whole time. I'm talking right now, just scrolling fast and it's still going. This is the longest article of all time. But one quick Remianity fair, baby, it's vanity fair. Nothing can be less than twelve thousand words, all right, One quick reminder. Go to Thats Messed Up live dot com to see where we are performing for
the remainder of the year. We've got Sacramento on December thirteenth, New York. On December sixteenth, there's a six o'clock show and there's a nine o'clock show. The nine o'clock show was just added, so grab tickets to that.
Come to both shows. We're doing different.
Episodes, and then Philly on the seventeenth, and then we'll be in Seattle on the seventh of January for the Wet.
City Comedy Festival. So yeah, that's messed up.
Live dot com has all the ticket links for those and that's it.
I want to get started. I would love that. Let's do it.
Okay, Today we are doing Manhattan Vigil season fourteen, episode five.
The episode came out in twenty twelve.
The timecode of this episode it says nineteen eighty nine and Waiting by Nora Jones is playing. So we have a music montage intro. We've gotten a few of those in the SVU history. A poster is being hung up of a missing boy Hector Rodriguez and a uniform cop aka Alex Kropowski aka Ray from Girls, and the mom is Tina from The Bear Holy shit, and she has a tear in her eye and she's frantically hanging posters
of her missing son. Now it's two thousand and there are stuffed animals, flowers, candles in front of a giant mural for Hector and his mom is still there suffering. Two thousand and six, the mural is still up and we see a young couple with a stroller walk by. Two thousand and nine, the mural is still up and we see a boy on a scooter with his young parents walking behind him. The couple does not like each other, and you can tell even from a music montage.
Quick walk.
Now it's twenty twelve, the year the episode came out, and we see this couple again. The dad is in a baseball cap with a glove and he's rushing to pick up his son and chatting on the phone constantly, just like and I'm running late. The mural of Hector is still there. So then the woman from the couple that doesn't like each other that's connected to the Yankee boy, she opens the door and starts screaming at him immediately. You see your son one day a week, and you
can't be on time, which is a great point. I'm sorry if it's once a week, like you said it. And I love this actress. She's actually one of my favorite s few episodes from season two called Parasite. The boy is happy to see his dad and thinks he's gonna catch, you know, a ball. They're very excited, and so many people keep calling the dad and I wonder what his job is that it's NonStop calls on a Sunday,
like to the gate, like, I'm just very curious. They rush out and the dad is still scrolling his phone while walking holding his son's hand, and the sun is such a little cutie. And this is what I realize. It's all the gear, says New York. It's not Yankees, it's not Mets. It all says New York, and all the people on the train as well.
It is not a specific team.
And I just love that even Dick Wolf couldn't clear the Yankees, Like yeah, oh fuck.
Do you recognize the guy playing the dad? No? I looked him up.
I mean he's he's working, but he didn't mean anything to me.
No, He's like he's a theatery guy.
Like I saw him in Shakespeare in the Park the one time I went to Shakespeare in the Park. He was in it with Jesse Tyler Ferguson from Modern Family. But I forgot what they were in. It was what did we see?
It was like, do you get tickets for that or is it like people line up or what is it you have.
To wake up so early to get like a ticket for it? Like we were in line at six am in Central Park.
It was crazy.
But I was like, I think it was a couple of years before I moved, and I was like, I gotta do this while I still like, can.
You know, so what do you do? Like at six am? You run to the park.
You go to the park and you go to like the area where they do the Shakespeare and there's like a line that people bring like lawn chairs and shit, and everybody's just sitting there waiting to like get and then you get a ticket or or a number. You get something, and then you come back and get you get in.
So every day they release the tickets for the.
Night of I think that's how it was when I went, wowah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool. But yeah he did like what oh my god, And I'm trying to like look up. He's done a lot of Shakespeare, this guy. And I saw like not Twelfth Night, but one of those ones where it's like a big farce with like dressing and people are like nobody knows who the other person is that's what I saw him in Hamish link later.
Yeah, yes, well you know now that you say the name. I did see his name and I was like, are you a nepo?
But he's not. He's not. Okay, so their walk he's he's married to Lily Robb, who's that. I didn't know that.
She's you know her if you saw she's in all the American horror stories or she was. She kind of has like a Stevie She was like the Stevie nicks Witch vibe in the coven one. Yeah, I think she's been in an SVU. Also, all right, we did go down on IMDb like fever Dream.
We got to know how to do Shakespeare in the Park very you know, with every detail. And we are back. Okay, we are back. The New York sports ball team is about to play. Yeah, but if you are one of the listeners who don't like asides, good luck, okorry about that.
Whatever.
So the little cute they're walking with all these fans and he turns to his son and goes, you want to treat even though the mom did say please limit his junk food. He's been getting a lot of stomach aches. But you know he decides to go get a little treat.
So now they're on the one hundred and tenth Street B train stop and there's a pickpocket type person doing a little trick on the dad and so he drops the money, spins him around, and as the dad bends down to pick up the cash, the man grabs the sun wyat and pushes him onto the train and the doors close.
Holy shit, the dad nightmare.
Yeah.
I literally have been babysitting kids where I've taken them on the subway and I'm like, what would happen if the door's closed, Like, you know, it's so scary.
Have you seen there's a video on the internet that's circulated where like a mom something was happening and she accidentally left the stroller on the train, but then the camera's on the next train stop. It's kind of like a drunk guy, but he took the stroller out and was just like hanging out with the kid till the mom came. And then the mom came and like hugged him and it was and it was all caught on the security cameras.
So I want to see that video to cleanse my palate from watching this scene.
Yeah, I help you. I mean I once helped like a passed out guy on the train. It's everything is dangerous. Don't trust anybody, but also be a helpful citizen. Okay, Yeah, So the dad's obviously flipping out.
He's screaming, there's nothing he can do.
He starts running, trying to push at the door, and then he opens the door that says sound for emergencies, which we know is a blatant lie, like everyone uses those doors all the time. Nothing will ring at all, but the alarm is blaring. He runs up the stairs. He's on the phone with nine one one. He's screaming, help, help, my son has been taken. Benson and Tomorrow are meeting Kragan on the scene and there are a lot of like white shirts going on.
What's going on?
Benson asked, Cragan's like seven year old Wyatt Morris snatched from father the transit like everyone, all the trains are stopped. Everyone's en route to the game, and it's like, well
who is this kid? And the father is David Morris of the Morris brother's real estate family, and Benson goes, holy shit, they on the whole West side and he ransom demands not yet Benson looks around and it's like, whoa, this neighborhood has changed, and then she stops and stares and it's a flashback to young Benson and she's looking up at Hector's mom and holding in the flyer in her hand, and Craigan calls her out of her little trance.
She says, it's the same neighborhood.
A missing boy in nineteen eighty nine, Hector Ramirez, a Dominica kid, and Craigan goes, oh, yeah, yeah, the custody case.
The dad took him back to the dr.
Benson turns around and goes, we don't know that the mother never saw her son again, and she gets a little emotional, and Amaro says, well, this kid's missing now, but what if they're connected? But they are blowing her off and we are on the credits and it just hit me how long we talked about actors. Okay, we're back on the streets and rollins and Finn joined the team. The trains are stopped and there's no sign of the boy.
Finn goes, oh, if people don't make this game, there's gonna be a riot, and Craigan goes, I don't give a shit. There's a kid on the train. Okay, well they're hoping. I mean, best case scenario, the kid's still on the train. They search every car, talk to every passenger. Omorro says, the dad wants to go uptown and help the search, and Craigan's like, absolutely not. And then he looks at Tomorrow and Benson and goes and whatever's happening.
But between the two of you get over it. Do you remember how to say?
They were like, hold on, let me let me find it.
Hold on one second, because I kept trying to search and I couldn't figure it out.
And this is really close to after.
You know, the huge the Dhalia case, you know with the Cragan being framed and then the second workers.
So but I didn't know what was happening.
I mean the episode right before this is called acceptable Loss. And it sounds like Benson kind of like gets creative with an investigation. I do remember there being a time where Benson and Amorrow like fought and were like mad at each other. And I think it was during all the Carrisa stuff. Yeah, the curry, Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's like she thought he thought she wasn't like backing him, and she's like, Tomorrow, you like met with this girl, like no one saw you. Now
she's saying you tried to hook up with her. You know, I think he's pissed at her for like not backing him.
But before anything else, we hear a guttural scream, David, David, where's Wyatt? The mom is running up at the dad. The detectives split them up. She's screaming, what did you do? What happened? The dad is so defensive with Amorrow. It could have easily happened to her, too good one. It didn't, And I could tell you're a rich kid because you can't take fucking responsibility for anything, always blaming someone else. Tomorrow is like, describe the dude, white black age. He says,
white forties, cap glasses. I'm bad with faces. Benson is with the mom and she's like, he sees his son on Sundays. He was supposed to be there at nine, he was two hours late. Benson is like, so he only sees his son once a week? Does that make him upset? And she goes, oh, he's always upset. Everything to him is a negotiation. Benson's like, Okay, your ex is very wealthy. Have you noticed anyone suspicious, anyone trying
to talk to you or why? She goes, no, Oh my god, what if this is If this is a ransom, we'll pay, We'll pay. And then it hits the mom what is actually happening? She starts gasping. She collapses. She clings onto Olivia and cries into her shoulders. My note says soldiers.
But I did say shoulders.
Munch is in a suit that for sure looks like he's going to a bot mitzvah. It is wild. Like I know, women have a lot of unfair things. You know, you gotta shave your legs, you can't have a unibra whatever. But wearing a suit seems like it sucks. I would hate it. In the summer, you have to wear a tie, a shirt and a jacket a layer. I just like seeks to me or disgusting. Okay, so you know we're doing flyers, flyers, flyers. TARU can't track the kid's phone.
Rollins comes in. Every witness saw a different type of someone's like, oh, black man, white woman. So we can't trust anyone. But it is all hands on deck. There's no video from the station and then there's a comment like, well, oh yeah, we don't give people up their nice things and that it's like, oh no, the neighborhood's actually really changed.
It's it's not.
A war zone anymore, and it was when Hexter was missing, and Rollins actually looks shocked that they would even live up there.
But also, Morningside is such a nice neighborhood.
But I obviously moved to New York during this time, not before. But it's by Columbia and stuff. It is really yeah, beautiful. But also they explain that they live there because his family owns the building and he doesn't actually live there. His ex wife is living there and they own half the block. They're in court every three months with custody stuff. So we get a wild Benson theory that maybe David got tired of paying for two sets of legal fees and kidnaps his own son.
Amaro says, you know she does.
You know, the mom's trying to make him look bad, and Benson goes, oh yeah, she talks shit on him the moment, like she got there, you know, why are you two hours late? But also two hours is a lot, And then they say at eleven and then rollins, it clicks, goes eleven.
The train didn't leave until twelve fifteen.
Craigan asks tomorrow if the dad says they stopped anymore, Amorro says no, even though he asked him about it. So now daddy boy is here at the precinct and he didn't say anything because he didn't think it mattered that they went to a pastry shop. And he's like, oh, you didn't want your wife to know he was having sweets. And he's like, listen, I just wanted my son to have a special day. The divorce has been really hard on him. And Benson goes, can anyone confirm it? He goes, yes,
the hostess. I've been seeing her. Ah, your son is missing and you're worried if your ex wife finds out you're fucking a hostess. It's like truly despicable behavior, like the narcissism popping through. You can't even like stop to care about your son over your own needs. It's really really sickening to me. She also used to babysit for Wyatt, so he's been fucking the babysitter. So we get the full picture of what's going on here and now we're
headed to my dear lady Anne Bakery. There's a hop blonde who's denying seeing him, and Rollins is like, honey, we know you're involved, and David's like, stop this. She asked the Floory knows, and Finn Is like, that's on you or we don't care. Now, can we be serious? There's a missing boy and also they're divorced. You can fuck anyone, like, it's fine. They were eating muffins and had skim milk and they're like any guy with baseball hats. She goes, yeah, all of them, dud. It's the playoffs.
Finn Is like, okay, but are there were there any losers? A singleton, a lone man? Was there not a psycho? And she's like, actually, I do remember a singleton And so he ordered a tea and a glass, got up when they did and left two dollars. So we have some footage from a nearby boutique. It's not really enough for even their fake technology, so.
That's pretty wild. Can't enhance it even.
But it's a maroon hat and sunglasses and it kind of looks like Sandoval if you ask me. But we're in the thinking room and Kragan's doing what he does best, questions and assignments anything from traffic cams are ATMs, still checking. Munch is like, fuck this three hours, no ransom, this is a predator.
Are you getting deja vu?
He asks live and Finn goes, not this again, and Benson's annoyed. It's like, it's the same neighborhood. Hector's on a bus. Why it's on a subway. Craigan's like, it's two different worlds, different families, and Munch is like, exactly, we had about one tenth of the resources for Hector. Amara leans in and goes, wait a bus. Benson goes yeah, and then a witness saw him with his hair blonde. Craigan gets serious. Yeah, so the dad can seek him
out of the country. Case closed, and his bald head looks extra smooth in this episode, it is really wild, like really like squishy and smooth. So Benson and Tomorrow go talk to divorced parents. The dad doesn't recognize the dude. The mom is pissed. She took him to the bakery he had breakfast. Why would you do that? You know? And they go okay, so someone knows your routine. Who was following you what's going on. She says, no, she hasn't noticed, and the only time she's not with him
is during school and Sundays. And the dad's like, yeah, I didn't see anything, and the mom starts to y out, of course, you didn't see anything. You're a fucking clueless Everyone hates you here, everyone on the block with all this construction and condos. He's like, no, they don't Amaro prize. And he's like, what do you mean. She goes When he goes to those community board meetings, the whole room wants to kill him. He's like, oh, come on, it's
morning side Heights. These people need to get out of the sixties. Omar I was like, David, look again, have you ever seen this guy at one of those meetings? He goes, No, I don't see anyone at those meetings. I tuned them out. So Benson asks, you tune out a room full of people who accuse you of pricing them out of their own homes. He says, if he lets them control the agenda, nothing gets built, okay, and it would still be a slum if it wasn't for me and my rich daddy. Amorrow gets a call, he
turns and asks for live. The mom is panicked, what what, and we cut to a bodega or owner pissed because he's losing business. Munch and Rollins are like, dude, a couple said they saw the boy here, So did you see him?
He's like, yeah, yeah, lots of kids come here. I can't place him.
And he's still like so sorry about the like Matt about the business, and Finn walks in and is like, well you better think harder because we just found the boy's self on outside in your dumpster. So now Munch is a little angrier, want to try again, And then he goes, oh, yeah, I remember him.
And this is the thing is, it's so hard to just help people find a kid.
Well, so I you know, I thought about it a little bit. So one, it's like, one, just help, they'll open your store faster. Yeah, But two, you know, he seems like an immigrant and a lot of cultures don't really trust the cops, right, get that, and they don't want to get involved, and they don't want to get killed by a mob or something like you know, you
don't know what's going on. So in that sense, I understand, but it is a kid like yeah, no, so he starts spilling though he has all this right on the tip of his tongue. The man had classes and a cap and black hair. They show him the pick. He goes, I can't tell, but I remember the son because he acted up. So he got bought a candy and some hair dye blonde Cragan cough cough. Now he's really gonna be mad because they're like, call in, backup, we need you at the station.
So he's pissed.
So he needs to call in you know, someone that's gonna work the desk, the snacks and he's gonna go talk to a sketch artist. Rollin's and Munch are like, uh oh, copy cap blonde haired eye was never released to the press. Finn Is like, don't make me say
I told you so. And now we're back at the office and Munch is looking through a box labeled Hector Rodriguez flashed back to season one Monch and he's really like feeling this case, and Craigan's like, you're still here, and he snacks back to reality and is like, I never left, and again, all hands on deck.
This is a huge case. This is a rich white boy.
And this is not in line with the ethics of our podcast, but a whole. Benson's rack looks insane in this white shirt, Craigan is still not ready to start chasing ghosts quite yet and is like, dude, come on, the blonde eye isn't enough for you, Like, get out the Ouiji board and let's get the ghosts going. Security footage of old tunnels underneath Columbia University got a hit. There's a sighting of them and the boy is blonde and the man is dragging him. So the Columbia tunnels
are the last sighting. No leads from the tip line or other burrows or the FBI what is going on?
And Munch is like, we're going back in time. Bitch, I don't care.
And he starts pushpinning into a corkboard and then it goes back to season one. Benson pushpinning into the corkboard and I said, how did they do this? And I found out I saw you did. Yeah, okay, So I looked it up and it's an IMDb trivia, so we hope it's credible.
You know, we find mistakes in there all the time.
The director, who did we say where You're like, oh my god, your granddaughter's amazing, and she was like, I'm not reallyd to that woman. It was Amanda Plumber.
No, it was when we were talking to Michael Learned. We were like, we heard that your goddaughters, Amanda Plummer. She's like, why does everybody keep saying that? It's not true? So that was funny.
So the director of the episode, Jean Dee Susan's it seems French. I'm not saying it Signawzac gets away cigon Zac. But I feel like there's gotta be a missing continent. Constant, there's a missing continent. It stuck in his last name. Where have all the polar Bears gone? Okay, we talked about polar bears, didn't we? Or was I with another friend? Like me, if it's brown, laid down, if it's black, fight back, if it's white, you're like, you're.
Dead on site?
Really yeah, because I think you can like try to get away from the other bears. But if a polar bear knows you're there, like they will hunt and stalk.
You till you are dead.
Oh no, And if you already see one, that means they've known you've been there forever for a while. And I didn't know that because they are the prettiest.
But I always think of the ones at the at the Central Park Zoo that look depressed. They're always just like lying there because they can't tear any people apart and people are just super surrounding them.
Yeah, but I didn't know that. But yeah, I like Bear TikTok has entered the chat okay talk and what about cocaine? Bear definitely run oh.
Yeah, or work through or give it some coke? Okay. So Jean D.
Sag and Zach I'll just say it as Midwest as possible. He didn't want to use makeup and clothing and instead used an experimental technique. But I wonder if it's still experimental or if they use it or whatever. But it merges the episode scenes with footage from the show's first season to make it seem like it's a flashback that never occurred. But isn't that just special effects and mixing the scenes.
Well, I was noticing like one because I saw something in the wiki, in like the fandom wiki about how about like where some of these scenes came from, and like the one of liv like pushing a thing up onto a board. She does do that in another episode, So it's like he uses the footage of that, but you never actually see live and her face with that flyer. You just see her tack something up and then the camera goes to the flyer. So I feel like they're maybe using little tricks.
Like that, definite tricks.
But you know, it was experimental when this came out, and I wonder if this is like not experimental at all, or it's already outdated, or like what it even is. We're just so advanced technologically. But the scene you're talking about, it's from the episode Bad Blood, and that's the one where it's like these brother the brother is a building manager and you know he's raping his brother. And then Munch is from episode twenty one of season one called
Nocturn Nocturn Ah. Yeah, so that's the ones they use, and it is cool. I mean it is cool. I really enjoyed the little trick that he did. And this episode was the three hundredth episode ooh that we're watching. Okay, so the technology is cool. They go back and forth. Well because not you know, when I was in Nope and got kicked by a horse, you know, I didn't
actually get kicked by a horse. But he immediately was able to show me how the two scenes melded together, like they filmed the horse and then they filmed me, and then before I left, Jordan Peele was like, look at this, and on a little monitor he showed me the footage of the horse kicking me like that quickly they were able to put it together. So I'm wondering, if it's the same technology, if there's any filmmakers, let us know.
Okay.
So then Craigan still won't admit he could be wrong, and Benson's like, come on, dog, like what the fuck? And they start talking over Craigan, and they decide to like push with Hector and they don't give a fuck about him. Also, Craigan makes Tomorrow go with Benson, not Munch, even though she wanted to go with Munch, and but he makes Munch go through paperwork, so now maybe they'll
get to the bottom of the rift. Basically, they're walking down the streets of New York and he's like, listen, Obviously, Captain wants us to partner up again and be like the way it was, and they agree to be down and work together, and then they walk past the mirror. So then Benson says how she never thought that the father took Hector, but she was a newbie back then and she kind of let herself get stampeded. And Hector's mom never moved because she thinks that Hector might come home.
So they go up to her apartment and she makes them read out loud to Bio that he wrote for school. I'm assuming, but she wanted to remind Benson who Hector was and that he was a really good boy.
He liked t ball, he had asthma, and he loved chess.
Amaro starts talking about the custody dispute and basically he wanted to raise him in a Pentecostal church and her family was Catholic.
I mean, my husband was raised in the Pentecostal church, and I would have taken my son, my children to another country.
And if he told me I had to do that. But isn't this Did you guys not talk about it before? That's what I was thinking, the exact same thing.
I was like, you guys just didn't ever mention how you'd want to raise kids. But I guess people get pregnant too without really having those combos.
Yeah, but the church argument broke them up, but he didn't take Hector. Amaro's like, you're in touch with him? She goes, well, his family and he doesn't have my son. Somebody else does. Her voice raises and she gets mad and she's like, this is about the missing rich boy that's been all over the news. He was the same age as Hector. Amaro's like, do you recognize this man? Shows the bad blurry photo and she's like, did he take Hector? And when they say I don't know, she goes,
fuck you JK. But she's passed and she's just like, did you just come here to torture me? People write to her, she says, Psychics call out to her with info, People reach out He's out there somewhere.
She said that.
She throws out all the letters and everything. People reach out to her, except one letter that she sent to Benson, and Ben like, wait what, I didn't get a letter from you? What are you talking about? She goes, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. The guy told me to actually write it to a cold case. And they're like, who told you that? And she goes, well, a cop, she says wrote to her. He didn't sign his name, but he said to keep pressuring his bosses about Hector or it would happen again,
And she got it on his thirteenth birthday. So but cold case gave up, just like you did, she said. She walks to the window to look out it. We cut to another office. We go with the boys tomorrow, munch out for business. A woman's like, oh s view, I would love to move over to your unit live bodies for a change. And they compare how their different
jobs haunt them. She walks into a room of boxes and opens one and takes out a little evidence bag and it is the letter, and the letter says, stay on them, Dolores, NYPD should go to bed every night with the cries of your missing child in their ears, lest more flames burn the innocent. The Prince traced back to an auxiliary cop who said he was off his meds, and an auxiliary caught me and someone that's a volunteer police reserve and assistant Civil Guards, part time reserves and
munch out loud, goes Steve Lomitin. He was on Hector's search team. He's a bedbug. That's not good.
Pretty harsh, harsh, harsh for a.
New Yorker to call someone a bed bug, like, you're the worst thing imaginable.
Way.
Have you seen the TikTok where it's like people are pretending to be the French bedbugs?
They're just that little berets.
Yeah, yeah, I always I feel like I once you did the impression. I thought of the musen X guy and like, how funny that this little booger became so kind of beloved.
Yeah, and the Nason X bee Antonio Banderas.
I don't know about the bee. Oh remember the bee. You'd be like I returned my flower a changed bee.
Oh I did not know that. But now I'm thinking bad. Now I'm thinking about the Geico Cavemen, and we have to put a stop to my brain.
Could he? Do you remember they got a TV show?
Insane, truly insane, Like I could not believe that the Guico cave Men got a TV show, and yet Flow does not get a TV show.
I'd rather watch a TV show with Flow and her weird family. Yeah.
I hope Flows Flows live in the dream Flows people are like, but she can't be in other things.
I go.
I'd take fifteen million to never act again. I really would. I really would.
People dresses her for Halloween she's famous forever.
But then Tomorrow asks about the bedbug. Omarro's like, wait, so could he have done it? Much goes, oh, no, he's a real Boo Radley doesn't have him in it, doesn't have him have it in him.
But where is he now? So they head to Morningside Park.
Benson and Rollins approach him, and there's a bustling scene, so many cops people and this auxiliary cop aka Ray Pashanski. That's his character name from Girls, which is hard because it's Alex Kerpowski and it's just too many Eastern European names to keep. And so he found a cap that looked like Wyatt's and Rollin's is like, wow, nice catch, and she does a little light flirt. Because he is Boo Radley's, she doesn't really have to lay it on thick,
you know. She laid it on more thick to like the little children's sociopaths we've met, I feel like than this guy. So he loves the flirting. So they decide to go to the precinct. He's been an auxiliary for fifteen years in Morningside, even though he lives in Brooklyn and as a security guard at the mall who Craigan is bleak, This is bleak. Craigan is like, oh, come on, he's just likes the neighborhood and like it's not a big deal. And I don't understand why Craigan is so
off this episode, Like did he relapse? I don't get it, or is he still shaken from you know, the Dahlia situation or Delia.
Yeah, yeah, he's he's Yeah, he was literally in jail, so maybe he's still not got his groove back. But it is wild for someone to go from Brooklyn to Morningside Heights to be like a volunteer cop. It's an hour and a half probably each way. Yeah, and he has a full time job.
Yeah.
So Munch is like, are you kidding me? Craigan, he sent the letter and now he found the hat tonight.
Are you kidding me? This is fucking shady And we don't even know if it's Wyat's And they're checking the hair strands to check what's up, and then Rollin interrupts with a clip from the news when Hector disappeared and Steve Lomititon is on the news and he first discovered the missing boy's lunchbox and he was very emotional about it, and Munch goes, yeah, what are the odds He found Hector's lunchbox and then Wyatt's hat, and Benson's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
that's a huge secret, like if he did do it, like he's really been able to stay under the radar for a long time. And Munch met him back then and was and the ray Pashansky was like pissed that Munch wasn't treating him like a brother officer, and so Craigan goes, go do it again. So Munch is pumped and this dude's about to be munched. So he walks in with the dude and the dude's a nervous nelly, like.
What are you doing here?
He's like, oh, I was just about to ask you the same thing, and he goes, you treated me like a scale, not a cop. You're doing it again, and he's pacing scared away from Munch and he's like, I said it would happen again, and it did, and Munch is like, yep, and you were right there. He says, I don't need to take this, and he wants to leave, but right at that moment, right at that moment, I've
invented a lot of words. Okay, he says, I don't need to take this, and he wants to leave, and right at that moment, Craigan busts in and scolds Munch and he's confused, and Craigan, to ray from girls, is like, oh my god, Officer Lomaton, I'm so sorry. Sergeant Munch is not running this. These women are, and we appreciate you. So I love this little trick that's been played. And the men leave and he's mad. He's like, oh, what the fuck. He's a sergeant and I can't even be
a regular cop. And they're like, listen, thank you so much for finding the hat, and we should have listened to you thirteen years ago. And then he looks at Benson and goes, you were there. I remember, And then Rollins begins to flirt and goes, well I wasn't, and he's these cases are connected.
You don't get it, do you, But it's all in my archives.
So they all follow him to his mom's house, who's like, I thought you were out helping find the boy, and he's like, yeah, mom, they're here to see my work. And then he's like a kid excited to show you their room when you go to their house for the first time, and they run up to the attic and it's an obsessive as you can imagine.
And then plus five.
So a lot of newspapers, red and black tape y are in American flags clippings, and Finn is perfect and says, what the hell is this a museum for lost boys? So this auxiliary cop Ray Poshanski says to Finn, you don't get it, but she does, and like you know, nods a little bit to sexy blondie and he is convinced that him and Rollins really get each other, and she goes along with it. Yeah, Steve, I think I
get it. And she makes a little ponytail look good and so what now, Right, Rollins enters the kitchen and there's a ton of uniform cops are clearing the cupboards, but she needs a moment and kicks them all out. So she starts asking Steve questions and she's just like you, keep saying other boys. So what are these other boys? And he said that he found seven disappearances in thirteen years in three counties. Four of the boys were taken
by a man wearing a disguise. She cheers him on while Finn is on the phone upstairs talking about him to Craigan. So now we jump and we're with Hector's mom and she goes, oh my god, yeah, I know this auxiliary cop. No real cops would come up to the beat here, and so you know, they would hang out. He would talk, He would talk to Hector. So then it's revealed to her he sent you that letter. She denies it. She goes, why would he send me the letter? We never lost touch. He lights a candle at the
memorial every year. He never gave up. Benson is like, I wish you told me about him and his involvement. She goes, why because he didn't give up and you did, and Benson looks guilty.
Of course.
Now they show the photos to the divorce parents and she goes, oh my god, it's that pretend cop. And Namaro asks if she knows him, and she does. From the playground, he talked to all the kids and they all start screaming at each other and fighting, and tomorrow needs to pull the parents apart.
She blames him, and it's his fault.
Marl's like, I know where you are, but you guys need to get the fuck past it. So the dad walks to her and they hug and he says I'm sorry. She hugs and cries. Tomorrow should be a couple's therapist. They ask for even though he had one of the worst marriage, the worst marriage of all time. They ask
for him to please bring him back to us. So now the fake cop is upstairs doing his diorama report, but it's all over the ceiling and walls, and Rollins is listening to him go on and on, and she asks, so, what's the theory on the connection? And he says someone is taking boys and then setting fires to get rid of the bodies. And if we don't find why, another building might burn down.
She turns it on.
She's like, wait, look, I can't wait to report this all back to my squad. They're gonna want to know where you were today, though, he says, I'll tell you and you can verify it, but you can't tell anybody.
Rollins agrees.
Finn, Tomorrow and Craigan are talking about it, and they him on video at the pharmacy window when Wyatt was snatched. Why would he not tell us that? And it's because he was getting antipsychotic anxiety and depression meds, and so he thinks that's going to fuck us the chances of getting into the NYPD. But also they haven't accepted you in fifteen years. Yeah, like you're not going to be
a cop, dude. But also on the pharmacy cameras, we see that he came back an hour later to buy a child sized baseball cap that he found on the street, and she remembers because he paid in cash. So this is a full nightmare. He's a wanna be hero on meds, Craigan says, and Rollins defends him and goes, sure, he might be crazy, but it doesn't mean he's wrong. And Munch is like, yeah, there's a connection between the kids and the fires. He's onto something and Amorro doesn't see it.
And Benson also notices one of the fires happened three days before Hector disappeared, because she remembers walking past like the burnt lot. Rollins is clacking on the computer, and four days later a building next to the fire claimed there was water damage from that fire, and they put they got a rush permit for concrete work in their basement. Music plays, Craigan is gonna call the DA get an emergency order to dig up the slab, and lou drills
are shaking down there through the concrete. They dig the pieces of the cement and they found something. They wave over Benson march in Tomorrow. They look down and then at each other, and now it's buzz buzz. Amorro and Benson are at the door of Hector's mother's house and they're gonna do what Tomorrow says is the worst part about being a cop, and Benson agrees. Dolores opens the door.
They enter her apartment and we may have found She says, stop, please, I just want one more second to believe that he's coming back. Amaro walks to her and speaks in Spanish and shows her the photo of his backpack.
It's his where did you?
And she stops you for asking the full question, and she cries, oh my baby. She falls into Amorrow's arms and then goes to her altar to cry.
And it's really really sad.
And she's an incredible actress and I'm just so happy for her being in the Bear and I hope she wins a fucking Emmy this year. Did she get nominated? I wonder whatever, she just deserves everything. Back to the office, and her name is l i Za. I think it's e Liza that wait, do you know who she's married to, Angel from Dexter. No. Yes, and he's been on SVU as well. Hold on, let's uh, let's put this all together. And hell, yo, dex we found a body in La Pisina. Yeah,
my Angel, what a character. Okay, So do you think it's Lisa Eliza e Liza Cologne Zias Zayas? Oh, Yeahaias because he's what's his name, David Zayas. They've been together since nineteen ninety eight. What a cute fucking couple. Oh and so the episode that her husband was in was Protection in SVU season three, episode twelve.
If you guys want to.
Put it all together, I'm so glad I remembered that they were married because I feel like that's such a cute couple. Alert we had a lot of cute couples, a lot of cow after couples. So now we're back at the office for another tragic day at SVU. Benson's getting off the phone with Warner, who looked at the dental records and dyed hair, and they finally found Hector fractured hyoid bone in the next so he was strangled and he leads on the slab. So and this gets
a little confusing. I had to watch this a few times. Yeah, this episode is confusing. Yeah, So if any of you are real estate people, let us know. So in ninety nine, that building was owned by Davidson LLC, which was an overseas company and the only building they owned, and then they sold it off five years later and dissolved the LLC. They sell it to Morningside LLC, who go on to
acquire three additional parcels on the block. And all of these businesses were Sroro hotels, tenements, and they were emptied out and converted into these modern condos and then Munch puts it together.
These are all fronts.
The buyer didn't want the sellers to know that the block is in play, so Morningside was behind the front all along.
Who are they?
Well, the condo managing agents are Sam and Frank Morris, David's father and uncle. Hector was buried in a building that was owned by Wyatt's grandfather. Lomaiton was right, there are no coincidences. So does that mean that the Davidson LLC and Morningside LLC are the same companies.
Yeah, that they basically set up Davidson as like a shell company and just let the building probably sit there for a few years so that while they acquired other places and then made like a big play for like the neighborhood, rather than have neighbors go oh, these big developers are moving in.
You know, I think sneaky, sneaky, you know.
Yeah, So they go to the divorce parents to tell him the news. The mom is shocked, the boy from the mural and now it's like, you know, her worst nightmare and fears are beginning to realize again. And the guy is like, Okay, they found Hector in a building owned by my father. He's like it must be a coincidence. Benson slowly explains he was buried beneath a concrete floor that was poured four days after he was abducted. The dad's like, yeah, okay, I feel sorry for this boy.
I mean, I've never an SVU history wanted they're a child to be dead more.
Than his you know what I mean. I'm like, don't find him, don't find.
He's like really wild. It's like that scene where he loses him. He's so good and you're like you feel the panic. But then the rest of the episode he's like, I don't really remember people.
I don't really know faces.
I'm not visual, I don't I tune people out, Like you're like, who are what is your deal?
Like just a dick? But yeah.
So Benson finally is like, we need to know who poured the concrete, you fucking moron. He's like, in ninety nine, I have no idea and my father's dead, and they're like, well, you better fucking track it down. So they go to some underground type place with boxes and files. Nothing's on the computer, it's all loose, and we need info on the super of the building. So he's digging and finally he sees that the managing agent was someone named el Hoda.
He then realizes he actually recently had a meeting with Lewis Hoda about four months ago. So the meeting was basically Hoda telling this rich kid that his father owed him money and then he needed to give him money, and what his dad hired him.
For was to be a rough character.
So Rent strikes illegal tenants, drug dealers, you know, a tough guy and They're like, okay, so how do we get in touch with him? And he said, well, he complained about a basement apartment he had in one of my father's old buildings. So they knock at the fuck in and arrest the guy in a raid in the middle of the night, and they slam him into the wall and they're like, where's the boy, where's the boy? Why?
At seven? Where is he? And He's like, never heard of him?
And Finn shows him a picture and says he works for his grandfather. What did you do with the boy? Finn screams in his face. Hoda screams back, and it's Tom Sizemore, who has over two hundred credits on IMDb, and I have not seen not one.
He just died in March of this year. What I don't Yeah, I don't even think I heard about that.
I did not know he passed. He has a prolific, prolific career. It's just like a lot of it's it's war and cop It's not really my movies. I'm not watching Saving Private Ryan. Yeah, but I been watching Boorn on the you know, on the of July, so I never see I've never seen his work.
I don't think I've ever really seen anything either. I just remember, like in this episode, him being really scary, but also I remember him dating Heidie Flies, like he came to my consciousness when the Heidi Flies thing all came to came out.
Not always be.
Offensive of the dead, but he looks like someone that would have dated Heidi Flies.
Yeah yeah.
And then I mean he was accused of sexual abuse and substance abuse, like he had allegations against him.
Great, great, great, Well I was actually protesting all of his work, so I got on purpose. But the name Tom Sizemore is so famous. I feel like that name give does something to me. Yeah. Yeah, So he's screaming back at Finn, he goes, you got nothing, but then Roland's Rolands.
I am losing it.
In this apphod Rollins did find something vicodin an oxy for an amy rosenthal.
So everyone's like, good enough for me.
He's like, sure, arrest me on a couple of bootleg scripts, okay, and they get his ass out of there.
So is this our guy?
Another work session and Benson is still wearing a white long sleeve shirt.
So is this just one long day? Has no one slept?
Has this been multiple days, like I can't still be daytime, so I'm not really sure what's going on, or maybe it's so now Amorrow got some scoop And in the nineties he was investigated four times by Marshall's investigating Arsens on our SROs and soros. I'll explain our single room occupancy hotels and they provide affordable housing.
So that's really cool.
So basically there's all these Arsen things with him and all these ten of and SROs and other buildings that the Morrises wanted gone. Suddenly there was Arson involved. Also, he's in the and C I see database. He was questioned twice in near playgrounds in Brooklyn and Yonkers in one and six, and two boys disappeared in Brooklyn and in Yonkers in one and o six, so things are starting to paint a little picture. And Lomitton's timeline there was a fire a week after both the boy's disappearance.
So then Craigan is still being so annoying. He's like, yeah, but we can't get ahead of ourselves. We don't really know who owned the buildings, and it's like Benson, finally he's like, go fuck yourself. We can make a case later, we need to get him. We need to find the boy. We need to find the boy, Craigan. So Craigan sends Benson and Tomorrow because he thinks that Hoda might still be mad at Finn and rollins for, you know, waking
him up in such an abrupt manner. He's sitting in the room in a tank top and Benson Marvel's at his scars and says, I know where they came from. You did these right, and shows photos of some fires. You worked for David Morris's father, and you're good, maybe even the best.
Nobody thought it was you.
He's like, excuse me, detectives put, this happened a long time ago, and nobody died, so there's really nothing to talk about. Benson pushes and was like, well, David Morris made a fortune off your work. What did you get out of it? That's the way it works, he says. Pioneers get the arrows and settlers get the land. Tomorrow gets specific tell us about the three seventy six Manhattan Avenue. He thinks, I don't know, maybe a grease fire the
Chinese restaurant next door. Benson goes, no, it actually started in a comic book store on the ground floor of the building.
Tenants were on a rent strike.
He says, oh, yeah, yeah, and starts laughing and mumbling and being a little weird. And then they show Hector's photo and he denies knowing him at all, and Ben's goes, are you sure you were the managing agent just down the block?
He goes, was I? And he does seem drugged.
I wonder if he was really on drugs or just an incredible actor. So yep, And you signed for a concrete delivery at the building a week after the fire. He goes, oh yeah, you know, from the water from the hoses. They flooded the basement and they had to do a new slab. But that doesn't make sense because that building was one hundred yards away from the fire, so you're gonna need another story that would not be possible for the water to reach that far. He says, okay, whatever,
a pipe burst, like, who gives a shit. He then admits to being there when the concrete was poured, so okay. Then explain how Hector ended up buried there, and he goes, forty residents, half of them on parole, they all did time. They all talked together, like, I don't know what you want from me, and they're like, but sure, but you're the only one that was been questioned for hanging around playgrounds. But also you were there when the concrete was poured, so yeah.
That doesn't make sense.
So they keep pushing and piling on the evidence, and he says, you got this all wrong. This is a twilight zone, and they're like, come on, dude, just tell us what happened. She's like, you did the fires and you double dipped. He punches the table with all his might, tries to leave and Amaro pushes him in to the wall and Benson slowly walks him and says, you're not going anywhere this time, Lewis, because we have witnesses putting you at all those crime scenes. And nobody likes Sachomo,
especially not in state prison. And he says, I didn't touch those kids. He starts to crumble at the thought of being Chicken Hawk in prison and that is a pedophile. So there's some pacing going on around and Omar's like, Okay, you're good for the fires, but these little boys, you never touched them, Is that what you're saying? He goes, yes, exactly. I'm a professional and I'm just doing my job. And he goes, well, sure, and if you don't want the DA to put the child stuff on you, you need
to help us. He crumbles to the ground and is sitting on the ground distraught, and Tomorrow pushes him like, Morris, family sucks. Right. You took a lot of risks and made that family a lot of money. And when his son needed to do right by you, he acted like he didn't even know you. And he says, what I did for that family, they should have given me the penthouse. The old man he had balls, David. He has no idea none. He doesn't know what it takes to empty
a building. You don't do it with lawsuits and BS payouts. You do it with fire. This guy's old school and he lifts his fists in the air and he goes and Sister, just like you said, I have the scars to prove it. I'm in the Hall of fame. And so then Omaro goes and you took Wyatt, so Morris ojus. So we can put that out there and say there was a ransom demand. But with Hector, that boy had asthma. That boy just stopped breathing when he was with you, right,
and the dude snaps. So bensons, we could put all of this out there, about the morrises and all this bullshit, but you've got to give us something, Lewis, so he ponders, then crouch down to him and they both are like face level to him, and they're like, tell us where Wyatt is right now?
Siren blaars.
The cops are running, clipping open locks to a series of fences. They enter a dark, giant building, flashlights out and screaming for Wyatt.
What is this place?
Huge white bricks inside, It's like an abandoned something. And then we hear mommy and Ben and runs towards the voice and behind a wooden door, is Wyat Are you okay? She lifts him, hugs him, she carries him out. His parents run to him. They all hug and walk off together, and Benson calls him a brave boy, but says, after all this, he's gonna need both of his parents. And Norah Jones starts playing again, and the three of them hug.
But for poor Hector, just more candles, flowers and vigils and tears and that stickwolf baby.
It's a confusing episode because it's.
Like because they've gotten a real estate law like yeah, but also, why did he take Hector? Is he a child molester? I know we're going to get into this because this is this episode wildly concludes in three seasons with the trial of Lewis Hoda, so I'm sure we're gonna learn more. But like, if you're just watching this episode and I don't know that they knew they were going to do another episode three years down the road, why did he take Hector? Why did he kill Hector?
He was strangled, so it wasn't like he didn't stop breathing from asthma. Did he take him because he went to molest him and then kill him? Like is that what it was and poured the concrete over him? Oh?
Okay, okay, because it but it seemed like it's weird.
Because it's like, you took this boy for molestation, but you took this other boy for revenge. It's just a little bit creat like confusing. You know, Oh, maybe he's not a pedophile.
Interesting, but we don't know if Wyatt's been molested, would have been molested?
Yeah, we don't know.
I think they're I think they were just in this they might even still charge him for stuff.
We'll see what the evidence is.
I think for this, it was just like they needed to say whatever to fucking find Wyatt, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. It is a good episode, and it just shows you how rich people suck and losing a child is really hard.
Yes, horrible, the worst thing.
And hopefully this will be a wake up call for Richie rich to start memorizing some faces and keeping a better eye on his kid.
Do you think the parents are going to get back together?
They kiss at the end. I saw that, Like they kiss, So I don't know. It's like if you guys fight and hate each other, I don't really know that this would like fully repair everything, Like hopefully it would make you guys co parent better. But I don't know, like if you got you're getting divorced, I don't know.
Maybe maybe maybe they'll fuck once or twice and then realize yeah, yeah.
The trauma bonding.
Yeah, all right, don't go anywhere, listen to our advertisements, and we will be right back with some crime.
And we're back.
So obviously, when I watch this episode, my mind immediately goes to Aton Pats, who is a little boy who went missing in New York City in oh gosh, the eighties I believe or seventy nine, sorry, and he disappeared. And it's like a case that spans a long time, but this one matches up, I think more with the next episode, which we're gonna do called Depravity Standard, and so we're going to cover that then. I just don't want everybody writing and going, this is about Aton Pats.
It's like I know it is, but it's going to be for next time. This one I'm going to cover the Bobby Greenlea's case. Have you ever heard of this, Liza, No, I have not. No, I had never heard of this.
There's a lot of green, Green River, you know, there's a lot of green Yeah, green River killer Bobby Greenlea's.
This case reminds me of like the first episode the first season of the Perry Mason reboot, like all kinds of things I've seen on television. I'm sure it's been like dramatized, but this all takes place in nineteen fifty three. Robert Cosgrove Greenlea's Junior aka Bobby at the time is the six year old son of Robert Cosgrove Greenlee Senior, a millionaire car dealer in Kansas City, Missouri.
This guy brought.
General Motors cars like to the Great Planes so and he owned dealerships from like Texas to the Dakotas.
Like.
He was just like a very wealthy man.
And he was I think actually in his sixties when they had Bobby, and he had an older adopted son and so. On September twenty eighth of nineteen fifty three, little Bobby was attending the French Institute of Notre Dame de Sion when a woman came to the school claiming to be Bobby's aunt. A nun that answered the door was named Sister Moron, and was told by this woman that Bobby's mother had had a heart attack and was
in the hospital. She was extremely upset, and Sister Moron just went and got Bobby and brought her him right to this woman, and Bobby went with the woman no problem. Nothing in his behavior suggested that he didn't know this woman or that she wasn't his aunt. And the woman took Bobby away in a taxi. And then later that morning, another nun, sister Marthana, called the Green Laces to check in on the mom and see like, oh, what's the status of her? Is she oka? And who picks up
the phone? But the mom healthy and not a heart attack in sight. So the whole story was a ruse. And Bobby had been abducted straight out of his school, which which is such a ballsy, fucking thing to do, because like what if he had made a fuss and said, that's not my aunt, I don't want to go with you, or like they to just be that confident to go to a school and just walk out with a kid is so nuts. So Bobby's mother called his father, who called the Kansas City Police and then they handed the
case over to the FBI. And actually a lot of the information I got for this crime I got on the FBI website.
There's like a lot of information on it there.
So a cab driver for a cab company named Willard Pearson Creech told the authorities that he had picked up this woman dropped her at the school and she said wait for me, and that she got into the cab with Bobby six minutes after arriving. So it took her six minutes for her to be like, give me this kid, let's go. And a few hours later the greenleass got
a ransom note. The first letter was mailed special delivery and postmarked six pm on September twenty eighth, the day he went missing, and it demanded six hundred thousand dollars in twenties and tens to be placed in a Douffel bag. They promised to return Bobby safe and sound within twenty four hours as long as they got the payment, and
there was no funny business, you know, no tricks. The second ransom letter was postmarked nine thirty pm on September twenty ninth, the next day, and inside that envelope was along with the letter was a Jerusalem medal that Bobby wore. So this letter also demanded the six hundred thousand and said that Bobby was doing fine but that he was homesick.
So now the Greenleases received over half a dozen ransom notes and fifteen telephone calls, and it's like, fuck, these are thirsty kidnappers, like they were really reaching out a lot. But the Leases are multimillionaires, so they do pay the ransom.
Like the final call was received on October fifth, So this is like a week of them just getting these calls and ransom notes from the green from the kidnappers and the Green leases, I guess are working out with the FBI how to get the money, how to deliver the money. I don't know what's happening. I don't know why it took like a week. But the kidnappers then in their last phone call, they say, we've got the
six hundred thousand. Bobby is fine, and he's alive and will be He will be returned to you in twenty four hours. Sadly, unbeknownst to the family, the kidnappers, who are named Carl Hall and Bonnie Hetty, it's a man and a woman, a couple. They're not married, but their boyfriend, girlfriend or whatever. They had killed Bobby almost immediately after his abduction. They shot him in their car with a thirty eight caliber revolver, and all of the talk about
bringing him back was not true. They were never going to deliver him. They actually they think that the ransom notes came even after he was dead, Like it wasn't like, oh, he you know, he's seen our faces.
We have to kill it. Like they killed him right away. So they also.
Buried his body near Bonnie Hetty's home in Saint Joseph, Missouri, the body had been wrapped in a large plastic bag and had lime poured over it, which is to like disintegrate the body, I think. And so on October seven, a couple of days after he was founded, about ten days after he was taken, the family dentist identified his body with confirming gentle records. So kind of like what they had to do with Hector sadly now, Carl Hall,
the man in the situation. He had gone to military school with Paul Robert Greenlea's who is Bobby's adopted older brother.
And this guy, Carl.
Hall, had been planning for years to get his hands on this family's money. He was like, I'm going to do something to these people at some point, and I'm going to get their fucking money, which kind of sounds like this Lewis guy, like he wants this family's fucking money. And although he feels like he worked for it, this guy just spotted a rich family.
I mean, I don't believe in killing children, obviously, that doesn't need to be.
Say to do a lot of illegal shit.
He deserved a fucking payout and not a basement apartment.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, Like they fucked him over and they're rich people, like obviously they have no morals, and that family in particular, Like, yeah, with the neighborhood and the shadiness in the LLCs, Like, they're obviously not going to just pay people. But I think Hoda deserved a couple million dollars sorry.
Yeah, aside from being a child killer, but like just the.
For the work alone.
Yeah, and if no one died in the buildings of US fires, that's that's incredible. That's the work. Yeah, this is disgusting. I really did not see it coming that this little boy was murdered immediately. I've really I thought this was honestly going to be like quick done, and I thought you were just going to be like and then he was returned. I this is like horrible.
Sadly, I'm sorry that's not the case, but there's more like weirdness to this. Like so basically, once Carl and Bonnie got the ransom money, they hit the road for Saint Louis, which is about three hundred and eighty miles away from Kansas City. After they got there, I guess they went out to party that they had killed a kid and gotte all this money, and Bonnie got really drunk, Carl brought her to an apartment he'd rented in Saint Louis,
and Bonnie passed out. Carl immediately left, leaving her with only two thousand dollars of the six hundred thousand, and then he took a sex worker back to a motel.
Apparently.
Then the next day, on October six, he bought two big garbage cans and a shovel, and his plan was to bury the money, but he couldn't find a good place to do it, and he had already also I think, transferred the money to two big suitcases. This is like a little bit relevant later from the duffel bag that it was originally delivered him. So apparently he ditches these cans and he goes back to his motel. Then he gets suspicious about somebody hanging out his hotel, so he
changes to like hotel apartment in Saint Louis. And then the same day, the Saint Louis Police Department gets a call from a driver at the Ace cab company in Saint Louis, and I also read that this. I've read that this cab driver called the Saint Louis Police Department, but I've also read that he tipped off his boss, who was a mobster named Joe Costello, and that Joe Costello called Lieutenant Louis Shoulders, who is a crooked Saint Louis cop or it could be Lewis Shoulders, Louis Lewis,
I don't know. Uh, you know, we have problems with that name on this podcast. So this guy's a crooked cop. Shoulders and his driver, this patrolman named Elmer Dolan, then arrest Hall on October sixth, and the ransom money disappears.
Nobody knows where it goes.
Hall originally tells the cops that his name is John James Byrne at first, but like you know, the jig is up pretty quickly. He later directs cops to the apartment where his girlfriend is passed out, and they arrest her, his girlfriend and co conspirator. Hall was interrogated by the FBI and law enforcement many times, and every time he insisted, I had all the ransom money with me at the time I was arrested, Like I had all of it.
It was all there in these two suitcases. So he admitted finally to FBI agents the planning of the kidnapping. The abduction of the victim, burying the body, picking up the ransom money. But he at first he denied that he killed Bobby, and he tried to pin it on someone named Tom Marsh. He said he delivered Bobby to this person named Tom Marsh. He later admitted that Tom Marsh was made up person and that he and Bonnie had done the entire crime on their own for the money.
So Bonnie Hetty also admitted to helping Hall in preparing the ransom notes, and of going to the school and actually being the one to take Bobby.
So they pretty much admitted all what's crazy is that On SVU.
This episode aired season fourteen. The trial happened season seventeen. Three years go by. You're about to hear about the fastest criminal proceedings I've ever heard of in my life. I don't know if things have just gotten slower over time. In the fifties, they were just plugging along. But these people get arrested on like October seventh, October thirtieth.
They're in front of a judge.
Okay, they're in front of judge Albert sew Times, Yeah, yeah, in federal court in Kansas City. They plead guilty on November nineteenth, two and a half weeks later, the jury hears the evidence, they recommend the death penalty after only an hour and eight minutes of deliberation. Fifteen minutes after the verdict was announced, the judge sentenced them to be executed on December eighteenth. Judge Reeves said, quote, I think
the verdict fits the evidence. It is the most cold blooded, brutal murder I have ever tried.
End quote. So, Carl Austin Hall.
And Bonnie Emily Hetty were executed together in Missouri's gas chamber at the State Penitentiary in Jefferson City on December eighteenth, like not even like three months from when they committed the crime. From committing the crime to execution less than three months. Hall was pronounced dead at twelve twelve and
Bonnie Hetty was pronounced dead twenty seconds later. Interestingly, I thought Hetty is one of only four women who have ever been executed by federal authorities as of twenty twenty one. The first one was a Lincoln assassination conspirator conspirator named Mary Serat in eighteen sixty five.
The second one was Ethel Rosenberg. We all know the Rosenberg.
Soviet spies in nineteen fifty three, just months before Hetty.
Then there was Bonnie Hetty. And the fourth woman is Lisa Montgomery, the woman who killed and cut the baby out of Bobby Joe Stinnett on the case that we covered, and she actually was only executed back in Janie of twenty twenty one, and we personally on this podcast, like rallied for her pardon because she had gone through so much abuse in her life that there was a lot of evidence that she had brain damage and I didn't think it was even though she committed a horrific crime,
there's a lot of evidence that she was horribly abused her entire life and had kind of a warped sense of right and wrong. And I think lifelong incarceration would have been fined for her. But she's the fourth woman and she was just killed two years ago. So from fifty three to twenty twenty one, the federal government did not execute any women.
Well them being together, like so they're just in one gas chamber together, that's I mean.
It says that I think they got gas together. I think maybe people they wanted to make like an example. I have no idea, but yeah, gas together, and over half of the six hundred thousand dollars was never found. An FBI investigation went into finding the two suitcases which had all the ransom money, and they were apparently not
just never brought to the precinct. The money just disappeared and according to the arresting officers, Lewis Shoulders, Lieutenant Lewis Shoulders and Patrolman Elmer Dolan, they never made it to the precinct. Both officers were subsequently federally indicted for perjury.
They were both convicted.
Shoulders got three years in prison, Dolan got two years in prison, and after they were released from prison, they both returned to the Saint Louis area and Shoulders died a few years later and never fessed up to it, and Dolan got a pardon from Lyndon B.
Johnson in nineteen sixty five. I don't know. I don't know where did this fucking money go.
I always wonder that sometimes, like the cops sew it when we.
Watch these shows.
Yeah, of course they took it, but like it must be it's different in this situation where it's like where it's like this is money for a baby that was killed or for a little kid that died. But like when they go into like SVU and they all bust a drug ring and it's just like packs and packs of money, aren't they ever?
Like this is just drug money.
If I could just take a couple thousand, you know, like I would be like, you know, not that drug money doesn't have casualties. Of course it does, but you know, not ransom for a child. So anyway, that's the sad
story of Bobby Greenley's. But I feel like I the whole thing of the first season of Perry Mason, the new one that they did with Matthew Reese, was about the abduction of a baby and the like the father's family is kind of rich and like, I just feel like we've seen this kind of thing before in TV shows and stuff, and maybe it's all based on this, but I didn't.
I had never heard of this case before. No, I haven't.
And it's like they I can't believe they killed him immediately. I mean, I am against the death penalty, but I'm happy they got Yeah, they're.
Bad, Oh my god.
Ugh, sad because it really feels like they probably could have just left him in a field and taking the money, you know.
So well. Yeah, And it's also like, why did Hector die and not Wyat?
Yeah, yeah, well join us for a post mortem.
All right, post mortem time, baby, what did we learn? Stay very close to your children when they're getting on the subway.
That makes me so scared. The idea that is like.
My ultimate nightmare when I was a nanny too, Like just the idea of getting separated from a kid we're there on the train or there on the platform and you're on the train, Like that is my like nightmare.
Yeah, it is really scary.
But also I've seen these kinds of I mean, this guy was different because his goal was kidnapping, but I've seen an action like money mind trick people. Like my friend was a bartender and this guy walked in and I truly like we all just watched her, and she gave him money she didn't want to, and like immediately we knew we were tricked, and we tried to find him, and I followed him and then he ducked away like he was truly a master sneak and mind control.
And this happened to a friend also in the neighborhood.
It's like this neighborhood guy, she was bartending, and he walked in and she ended up giving him all this money from the register.
Like because he mind tricked them.
It's a mind trick where he gives money, or like someone gives you cash and goes, oh, no, I gave you this, and then you're kind of like, oh, I didn't realize, or like they ask for change and like he whirl wins you in a way. And I watched it happen once and then I had another friend where it happened to in the same neighborhood where it's like you just they like hypnotize you in this wild way, because why else would he pick up that money.
Like I want to be like be vigilant. Fuck money.
Everyone's trying to trick you, like if someone drops you, like don't do it, but they're good at tricking you to thinking you should pick up that cash, like you know, you never think it's gonna be you, and then you're in the call. It's kind of like our friend who nailed glued, you know, her her fangs, vampire fanks to her teeth. She her big thing is like you make fun of the gorilla glue girl, and then you're the gorilla glue girl.
And it's you no.
And it reminds me too of a person I knew who a psychic took them to an ATM and was like, you have to take out all your money so I can like bless it or whatever and give it to me, and just the psychic fully robbed her.
Wow.
Luckily she didn't have that much money, but I think it was a few hundred dollars.
The psychic rabbed her.
Yeah, sometimes I don't know if that was a mind trick so much as somebody being very gullible and believing everything a psychic tells them to do. But what else this episode, I mean, this episode's stressful. Missing children is obviously very a stressful thing for me to think about. But I'm glad they found a little wyat, but not I'm sad about what happened to Hector.
Yeah, it's like how do you keep living?
Yeah, the mom is just so sad, and that the cops fucked up so long ago, like that Kragan, even this guy that we see as like a good cop or whatnot. It was so gung ho of like yeah, whatever, dad took custody and we're done, and it's.
Like, yeah, the fuck.
Yeah, it was weird that they were so willing to just be like, oh, this is what happened, like you know, and the real case is so wild. But I guess it's like in the fifties people were just like walking into schools and saying, I'm your aunt, come with me.
I don't know.
It's so because now it's so many signatures. Oh yeah you have.
There's like a list of only certain people, and there's apps.
I mean, it's like, really, you know, I.
Just heard that a Chucky cheese they put a little bracelet on the kids that they can't leave or go with anybody else that has to match the parents.
I'm like, that's genius.
They did at the hospital when I had child, they put a little lowjack on them so that you can't do any baby swapping.
Damn yeah, child.
Casino anyway, Uh yeah, take care of your kids, be nice and don't be I have your rich kid.
Yeah, if you're a fucking.
Multimillionaire, pay the people that do your dirty work so they don't.
Fucking kidnap your kid. Jesus.
She rich people are so cheap at times, like fuck, get it together. Yeah, I mean, the boy didn't deserve it. They should have kidnapped the dad and I wouldn't have even bad at.
It, And his ex wife wouldn't have given a shit either. She would have been like, great, he's late all the time anyway.
Yeah, I mean to only see your kid once every two weeks and still be an hour and a half late, You're a piece of shit.
And then bring him to like meet your girlfriend where she works, like just like dedicate the time.
Damn.
You know.
This guy's a dick, But I'm wonderful When I saw him in Twelfth Night at the Shakespeare in the Park.
Dude, Andrew Reynolds and Josh Gadwaran watch What Happens Live and like, Andrew Rynolds, what a Broadway career. I don't think I realized what a star he is. Oh yeah, I knew put a Mormon, but he was like in the Hairspray and too that, like he's in.
So were you the one telling me that he's like always off book, like from rehearsal one and he's like somebody was telling me he's like so professional and like so good and just knows like how to do everything from the day like from day one. I forgot who it was telling me, But like somebody was like, Oh, he's just like so good at what he does. Like, wow, I love him. I love him and like I loved him in Girls, I loved him in Black Monday. I like him when he does like just straight up acting
stuff too, not just musicals. But I saw him in No, I didn't see him in Book of Mormon.
I don't think. I don't think I saw the original cat Now.
I saw the Chicago touring. I kind of want to see it again though, but only with him.
But I saw, you know, I saw a Book of Mormon for like sixty dollars because I think I saw it at the end of previews, so it's possible I saw it with them.
No, I hope. I hope to meet him. I love a professional cutie. He seems sweet and amazing and I'm a big fan. I'm a huge fan of him. Yeah, he's the best. He needs studyosvo.
Oh yeah, then we can have him on the pod him as like a killer like that you don't suspect.
Oh that would be fun.
Okay, let's get into or what would Sister Peg do for the week. This is our weekly segment where we point you to an organization, a blog, a book, a movie, something to give you more info about what we talked about today, and we thought we would point you guys this week to the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
It's a group that works to protect children around the world from going missing by providing resources for governments, law enforcement, NGOs, and families on prevention as well as the appropriate actions to take in the event that a child does go missing. And I thought this was interesting because, you know, in the episode, they think he's in the Dominican Republic. It's like, why wouldn't there be a an ability to look for him there? You know, I think organizations like this help
sort of probably bridge a lot of those gaps. And it's a I seemec dot org. That's uh ikmic dot org, I seemec dot org and that will be posted in our stories the day this episode comes out and Saved Forever in our WWSPD highlight And next.
Week we'll be doing Depravity Standard season seventeen, episode nine, and it's actually part two of Manhattan Vigils, So get a lot of that if you wanted more time, size and more He's coming and how wild We went on and Andrew Rynolds kind of tangent when Ray Pashanski is in this one, or Alexabowski another Girl's Guy.
Thank you guys so much for listening. We love you.
Message us, email us, come see us live, and we'll see you next week.
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