Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories.
Done Done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up nsview Podcast.
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Trigger and we talk SVU True Crime. We have celebrity guests and up top we cat chat, we chit chat, we have a good time. So on our shared Google doc, it says anonymous Hyena.
Oh, yeah, who the fuck is anonymous Hyaena? Mine's has anonymous Dumbo Octopus? What the fuck?
Keithy? Who is that? Who's in our agenda? That's just like, that's like me like, but.
It says Casey my view, Casey an anonymous Dumbo Octopus. I think one of you is octopus and one of you is Hyena. Oh, Lisa, you're the anonymous Dumbo Octopus. Wow, you've changed. You've changed a lot, Lisa. That's so weird.
Yeah, because it doesn't want to tell me you. I get it.
But Casey's the owner, so we're allowed to see him, but they don't. They don't want to portray your privacy as an anonymous Dumbo octopus hyena.
That's cute? Is that new merch?
Speaking of, I do think I'm going to take Rosie to Lion King in New York.
Great, this is thrilling. What happens?
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I was telling her about it today. I was like, everybody dresses up in a costume and there's dancing and singing. She goes, can I wear a costume? I was like, no, but maybe I'll buy you a souvenir so we'll say. Way, did you have to give her a speech on like you can't talk and all that? Or well, I said, you can sit on my lap and I'll get to the talking part a little bit closer because I don't want that to turn her off
from going. And when we've gone to movies together, she's quiet. She'll say like a couple things to me, but like she'll be pretty quiet.
And she's a Bob Baker Marionette regular. Yes, that's true. That's true too.
So she's she's had her fair share of live performances.
Wow, so she's doing Lion King. I'll be in New York too. We'll see what happens. You'll kind of bop into lion king with us. No, but I would definitely do. I'm trying to think what like I would want to do with Rosie just run around Central Park, I know. I think that's like gonna happen.
One day, we were talking about maybe and maybe going to a gallery because we're going with our art friend. So that sounds all like stuff you would be down for one hundred percent. Wait, I have a new thing in my life. So I thought Cashi Cereal sucks, you know, uh huh. But I bought Cashy Maple Waffle Crisp Delicious.
Love it. It's delicious. It tastes like the cinnamon French toast that used to do you remember the that look like it tastes just like that Kashi is bringing it. I thought Kashi is a loser like caf Well.
I think when Kashi started, they were just like Fiber. It was just like Fiber food. And now I think Kashi's like, let's get into the flavor game, you know, and they're like, let's we got to diversify. Not enough hippies are buying our no offense if you eat like regular Kashi. But I feel like it's not exactly the most delicious thing.
It's like pellets. It actually looks like gerbil poops.
Like I remember, I know used to have a stand up joke about Kashi and I totally forgot about it.
But but I'm looking at the box. Sorry, this is like riveting information. I know for all of our podcasts, this is what we talk about. I'm just looking at the box. But yesterday I did watch on Hulu the New I D Special on Jared from Subway, and we covered him on an episode. We had a great writer on that episode and we got through the horrors of it. But what's horrible about this one is they play the vote, they play the recording ass so it's like weird to hear.
It's one thing to hear, oh yeah, this woman went undercover and recorded him, and it's another to hear the recordings, like, oh my god.
And it fucked up her whole family, like her kids, like it fucked up her whole life going undercover, because she couldn't share with her children why she was so busy, but like she was committed to bringing him down. But when she brought the tapes to the FBI, they're like, you actually committed a crime because you have to tell someone, and they're like, so we can arrest you. So now you have to be an informant. And so she had to do drops in the middle of the night and
do all of this stuff like all the time. And she's like, I have all this evidence for you, just get him, and they're like it's not enough yet, and so like who, you know, the FBI really needs a lot good. But then her daughter went into her room and read through the journals, and that fucked her up and the daughter because all she told her kids was I'm chasing a bad man. I'm helping find a bad man. So then the kids were constantly anxious that someone's gonna
get them. Any stranger was a bad man. And so like the daughter just became anxious, depressed at all these issues, like doesn't really talk to the mom really. And then the son moved to Taiwan and hasn't been to the States in five years, and the and he goes, you know, what my mom did was selfless because she lost everything in the process, so like she brought down this guy and did you know, I don't know if it was
months or years. I can't really put it together of how much she recorded him, but she pretended to be a pedophile into him and like they were gonna pedophile together. So like she so so that's like where she got him to because he had a crush on her. She was like a local reporter. She was a babe. And so then once she they were talking all the time, they were both interested in each other, Well she was not for real, and then she just got to open up and it was sick. Hearing him say those things
was really fucking sick. Got it, and then we knew, you know, he had that partner that race, like the fundraiser. We talk about his two step daughters who he put cameras in their room and then they found out that the mom there was all this footage, the mom did this all like their own mother was oh my god, the leader helping him do it. It wasn't like she was a backseat abused like she was like a pedophile too. It was funny.
You know who you have to walk watch out for. Drag queens. That's who it is. It's drag queens. I'm sure all of them were drag queens. Jared from Subway, et cetera.
Well, that's what's wild. The whole doctor was like, ah, we were shocked. We were shocked, he was respected, And it's like, how many more times do you have to be shocked when it's a pastor quote unquote good guy, Like, how many more good guys have to do it? It's so weird and annoying.
It's also kind of wild that like this didn't bring Subway down, Like Subways just still kicking it the biggest franchise business in the world.
I think, like, just well, I'm sure they dipped for a bit, but like they you know, when was the dollar foot longs? Was that pre your post Jared? I don't I don't know.
Five dollars foot long I believe was like the King of the g That was like the peak with Jared.
That was what I was saying, wasn't it five dollars foot long? I don't know.
Subway historians, please write to us and tell us.
But his was not because he wasn't eating footlongs. Oh, he was eating six inches I think so for like diet purposes. He was eating a turkey sub for lunch and a veggie delight for dinner. Oh.
I mean when I was in college, I was so broken. We would get a foot long we would do half for lunch half for dinner, and that was like my food for the day for some times of college.
Yeah. I mean the thing is I was craving it. As I was watching it. I was like, is it weird if I get subway now? Oh no, oh no, I'm just telling you. I understand how they survived. It's like, yeah, I don't know want it, but a few times a year I'm like, you know what, I just really need a tuna sandwich. I know it's not real tuna.
Yeah, Oh, bubb and Grandma's there, tuna sandwich is great.
Okay, if I hear about Bubb and Grandma's one more time, just.
Saying I know you wanted to go there, and that's one of the thing I had, and I enjoyed it.
No, I want to go there. I tried going once and they were done. They were sold out of bread or something. I don't know, like at something happened where I waited in line forever and then they were like, no sandwiches, and I was like, okay, you see there's a line, so I will try again. But it looks cool in there. I would like to try a hip sick yeah spot. Yeah.
The tables. It's like pretty marble table like it's nice. Anyway, what else is going on? I haven't talked to you in a couple of days. Have you been well? You saw Cocaine Bear. I did see Cocaine Bear, and you love it. My review is that I really enjoyed it.
I had a good time. It is like gross, like there's a lot of like gross like sort of blood splatter violence, but it's all kind of also can't be in jokey, so I just closed my eyes a bunch of times and Jared would just tell me when it was okay to look and but the but the rest of it was like funny and I had a good time. The actors are all really funny, like everybody's camping it up, maybe except for like Carrie Russell, who's kind of playing
like action like the main star. But you know, so star said it, Oh my gosh, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Margot Martindale, Carrie Russell, Matthew Reese. So all three carry Russell, Matthew Reves, and Margot Martindale. That's an Americans reunion, all three of them. I thought they're not really all three in a scene together, but they're all from the Americans.
Who else is freaking in it? Well? The bear, the bear presented at the Oscars. Yeah, oh, do we talk about the Oscars. I thought the fashion was awesome? Oh yeah, who did you like? Everyone? I thought everyone looked so good and unique and different and like, I just really liked everyone's looks. Yeah, I don't know what it was like, I excuse scroll down, and like, I mean, usually I don't care about men's fashion, and that's that stays for this year included. But except for Lenny Kravitz in his
velvet jump soup. But people look red.
The red like blazer that the guy from Everything Everywhere was wearing. I like when guys do something different to like stand out from like the black tuxes. You know.
I liked what he was wearing. Yeah. I just thought everyone kind of brought it in a cool way. Yeah, And it was kind of a cool.
Like it was like it was definitely like the year of like people that just like like coming back around to get their oscars, you know what I mean, Like Jamie Lee Curtis had never gotten one.
Well people are I think everyone wanted Angela this year. It was it was definitely an upset. Yes, I love Jamie Lee Curtis. She's been in the business forever. But I think that was definitely one of the upsets.
Angela bassad did the thing. How could we not have given her the thing for doing the thing?
Yeah, she dressed her whole family in purple because she was gonna win, like they were color coordinated. Yeah, it's but I haven't seen that movie yet, so I haven't neither. No, everything everywhere I haven't seen yet.
Oh you haven't seen that? Oh yeah, I haven't seen Wakanda forever. But I but like the speech that Kei Hui Kwan gave was like making me cry. He was so excited and he's just like a person that thought Hollywood had totally just spit him out, and same, I mean, so did Brendan Fraser for that matter.
And then they just get like brought back into the fold.
It's like, I kind of like that directors, like you were saying Tarantino the other day, and like, clearly the Daniels like to bring people back in that are talented into the fold of Hollywood well.
And it was cute. So then I saw that Brendan Fraser and the dude from everywhere everything. They were an Encino man together. Oh really Yeah, so that was like extra fucking cute. But yeah, his credits legit go from like nineteen eighty two, then one thing in two or seven and then this then everything ever there.
Yeah, and his wife and he was like, you told me to never give up and I didn't.
And I was like just so sweet. I was like tearing. I know, it's so hard because I don't think anyone should give up on their dreams, and like, you know, every life is long and like keep at it. But then it's also like we just know people that should quit comedy. Yeah, just don't have it. So it's like so hard when it's like, you know, just go go support your family. Yeah, I don't know what.
So like you you could also say to yourself, maybe I just had my moment.
It's not like your dreams never came true. They did.
You were in all these big movies in the nineties, but like a sustaining career, and like, I hope he keeps working. He was awesome in that movie Brendan Fraser. I wonder if that was I thought Colin Farrell was gonna win. I haven't seen that either, but I don't know the whale is the whale is very controversial.
Brendan Fraser came out about being sexually like assaulted at the Golden Globes and that's why he was blacklisted. He was like, right, like a Marissa till Me Ashley Judd type moment. Oh yeah, yeah.
But I just I just meant like, the whale is controversial, So I didn't know like if people were gonna be like up in arms, you know, like have you been have you been seeing stuff about people hating the whale?
Yeah? I think people just don't like fat suits. Yeah, people don't like it, but the Oscars love it. Yeah, the makeup one for the fat suit.
I was like, I was like, whatever, I'm sure the effects are cool. I haven't seen the whale, but in Wakanda they're like giving people tusks like they're like you know what I mean, Like I couldn't believe that, like that one best makeup over over that I don't know. I was like that seemed weird, but you're right, the Oscars do love fat suits.
Yeah. They Well, I'm glad that Elvis lost. Fuck that kid. He needs a fucking kicking the junk and to sit down and work a little harder. He I'm what someone wrote like he had a little ego death and that is good for him.
Yeah, well because and what I was hearing was that he was all over Hollywood for weeks, like at every party, at every lunch, really shaking the hands and kissing the babies, trying to get that Oscar.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. What are you twenty four? Sit down that you're not Jennifer Lawrence. You're not likable. People think he's hot, but like, I just don't find him charming interesting in any way.
I've heard of him, seen him work, Yeah, I never. I haven't seen any of his stuff, so I don't.
I don't know. Because someone was telling me, They're like, he's incredible, it's the beginning of one. You have to see it. And I go, well, if he's incredible, I'll catch his next film. I really don't like buy bio not biopsies. What are they call biopics? I'm not into them. I don't really care.
Well, that's what my husband started watching Elvis, and he said it just really had like the same formula of every biopic, which is like, you know, young talent and then the manager steals everything and then drugs. It's like it's a lot. It's like the same fucking thing. So he stopped watching it because he said.
It was boring. I'm trying to think of one that I like, like if there's if I've even seen one, like I really I like the movie, like anything about Queen Elizabeth. I guess the first Oh, yeah, like Kate Blanchette and Elizabeth I liked in the nineties. But I don't know if that's a biopick. I don't know if those are biopicks.
Yeah, I'm trying to think of a biopic that I like.
What's a good biopic? I don't know.
The last one I saw was probably the Freddie Mercury one, the Bohemian rhaps City, But I can't think of another one before that, and.
Then we have to get started. But also a big drama after the Oscars though, was law Roach, celeb stylist, image maker Judge on legendary but he him and Zendaya, and I always forget if it's Zenda or Zendaya. It's I think it's Zendeya. I think you had it right, Okay, it's it's honestly like it's like I know it and then I don't. It's like Kamala come outa It really just puts me in a into a panic where even if I know it, like I won't say it, like
it really stresses me out. But he's been working with Zendeia forever, like he's you know, and she's one of the best stressed people. Yes, and he was the one that did the Seline Dion moment when she came back into fashion and half the Way and everything. But he made an announcement that he retired and he's over it and he does not give a shit about Hall. He's been disrespected one too many times and he's done. So he posted a big thing on Instagram that said retired.
So I went on like not a deep dive, but a little dive on videos and he just basically like, I'm from the hood, Like I'm a hustler. I don't need you guys, I don't care about Hollywood. I don't fucking I'm not playing these games. I can make money
anywhere and I'm not doing this. And then it was he had a falling out with Tiffany Hattish and I bet this happens to him a lot, as like a black professional where like he's too difficult or PR tells their clients, No, he's too much, he's annoying, don't do that. And like he was really hurt that she listened to
her team instead of like having his back. But he's just like an incredibly talented visionary and I hope this is just a moment in time and he continues to work because he he did the Hunter Schaeffer, that white little feather that covered her titties. Oh yeah, that was his look. He dressed Megan the Sallient, Like he's incredible.
And what I learned about him in Zendeya is that what he would do was he would dress her in outfits that other celebrities already wore, so then she would end up in who Wore It betters and then she would always win. And so that's how she became kind of this fashion icon because he was just like using stuff that people used because he knew he could do it better. And then, I mean, what he's done is incredible.
But even like the designers he wanted to use, it's just always been a struggle for like, yeah, being black in Hollywood is a struggle, yeah anywhere, And so he retired, and I wonder if this is real or not. But all the celebs in his comments like please know you know, they're like sad. But then I watched this clip of him being like, I'm done being disrespected. I don't care about any of you. I don't need to be in this business. Like I don't Oh, I don't have any favors.
I don't owe anyone anything. He's like, I don't care if you do PR. I don't care who you, where you work, what brand you work at. I don't care about any of you.
But I wonder what he'll do going forward. I hope he does something crazy.
It is so what I heard, because you know, I've been looking for stylists and stuff for some future shit. He's ten thousand A look, Jesus, yeah, because I was quoted by someone and it was thirty nine hundred. Usually it's supposed to be I talked to a PR person like thought. But that's another thing, like when you work with a certain PR person, you give a lower rate so then you can be on the carpet. And he refuses to do that because he's good, and he goes, no, I'm ten grand or bust.
Wow, Wow, wow. Wow.
Yeah. Are you looking at all his looks right now? Yeah? Yeah? And how do you feel like he's good? No, he's great.
I mean Zendia always looks impeccable. I love that thing Hunter Shaper was wearing, Like for sure, this is a very talented person and legendary.
I mean, is legendary over I don't know, I have I never want to keep judging. Well, I watched Tricksy and Katya watch Pose, and it makes me really want to watch Pose, which I saying to watch for a long time.
I loved Pose. I thought it was great. I really loved it.
Oh he did, ari Ariana Grande looks like you know, he did something cool. So the Met Gala usually designers like big fashion houses buy a table and then invite celebrities to wear their dresses to the table. So what he did He encouraged this f one driver, like this race car driver who is his client, to buy a table and have it be all different black designers and young up and coming people and it's like no one's
ever done that before. And last year I guess he had an unprecedented like nine looks at the Met Gala. But the met galas coming up soon. But yeah, he's he's retired. I don't know. Damn.
Oh, Casey's got a new flag. Casey's got a new flag for when we go way way too long. I just want to say one quick thing before we get going with the episode, because we've got a banger of an up.
For you guys.
But we are trying to get our date for Moontower. We are going to be there between the nineteenth and the twenty second in Austin at the Moontower Comedy Festival. And as soon as we know our exact date, it will be on our Instagram. That's messed up or messed up pod? Is that our Instagram? Yeah, so don't worry, we'll get it. We're trying to get it.
And then if you're listening today, I'm I'm in Philly starting the thing. Yes, the thirtieth to the first. I'm in Philly, So come on out. Not in April, fool's joke. Go see Liza this that weekend. Her stand up is so fucking funny. Okay, let's get going. Okay, We today are doing the episode Manhattan Transfer, Season seventeen, Episode seventeen from The You're Of twenty sixteen gosh, what a time, right before we thought Donald Trump would never be president.
Manhattan Transfer is also like a jazz quartet that my dad used to always make me listen to in the car, Like they would sing songs like.
You know Downtown or like you must take the a Tree. Like That's that's what I think of when I hear Manhattan Transfer. Anyway, So Manhattan Transfer is part of two episodes seasons seventeen, Episodes seventeen and eighteen. We're doing Manhattan Transfer today. Next week will be on Holiest Alliance. So you're getting you get in both parts of this major arc. And this is a This is a I would say this is a banger of a double ap. There's a
lot going on a lot. We open on a scene we've seen so many times before and ask for you a sex party. Lots of old men smoking cigars with hot, barely legal looking babes and forever twenty one dresses sitting on their laps like alcohols flowing. Everybody's you know, looks like they're having a good time, except a lot of the girls look bored and possibly upset. We see a woman bartender who we recognize immediately as Abigail Savage from Orange Is the New Black. She's like the who's her crew?
She's in Red's crew in Orange is the New Black? Right, Yeah, she's part of the kitchen crew. She got the short little pixie cut and she was Actually she's actually been in two other episodes of SVU besides these two, and she's the masturbai in the episode Sugar, the Eric McCormick episode we did where she's like the online person named the Masturbaiter and they go to her work and Stabler goes, I need the masturbater to come to the front anyway. That's her, and she's got a long wig on and
she's poorn drinks. And these old business dudes are like sitting around talking about rents. Like one guy's like, yeah, I wanted a two bedroom in Bushwick and I couldn't find one for less than thirty five hundred dollars a month. And it's like the other guy goes pathetic, which is my mom's favorite adjective. By the way, she calls everything pathetic, like everything is pathetic. She's like it's so pathetic, I can't even get upstairs. Or she's like it's so pathetic,
what's happening in Syria. Like she just like pathetic is her catch all adjective. And it's just weird to me that these men that I guess are supposed to be able to like pay to get into these exclusive sex parties are like bitching about a two bedroom in Bushwick that's thirty five hundred dollars a month.
Doesn't that seem weird? It does, But maybe they're complaining about how the prices have changed it like, yeah, I get used to be cheaper or something. Who knows? And who are they buying these apartments for?
Yeah, but they're talking about rent, so they're not even buying them, they're renting them.
So it's like, are you rich or not? I don't know what's going on.
So the young sexy girls look very bored by these conversations, and we pan around and who is hanging out at this party listening in on the convos? But our dear dominic Sonny CARESI and we cut obviously, and he's wearing glasses. He's wearing like you know, we know he doesn't usually wear glasses, so it's weird he's wearing glasses. And we cut to the van where Rollin's Benson and Baby Dods are watching the whole scene through Carees's Google glasses. He basically has like spyglasses on.
And remember what a flop.
Google Glass was just one of the biggest slops, one of the biggest tech of all time. I remember I went to a bar once that said like no vaping and no Google.
Glass, and I was like, this is amazing. I love this sign. Well yeah, but I feel like Quibi is my favorite tech disaster. Quibi and Siso are such specific close to us flops. You know, Siso at least like had a couple months like Quibi, truly within a day was like, this is a flop. We're calling it quits. Well, and the cockiness. I don't think CISA was as cocky as.
Quibi, but SISA was stupid because they charged immediately like Hulu didn't charge at the beginning.
These people need to give away.
The ship for free and then make it impossible to not pay because you want it so badly, you know what I mean. You can't make people pay off the bat anyway with content like that. But anyway, this is why I'm you know, a media analyst on the side. So Rollins is like God these guys are boring.
Also, for those who want to know, Casey is wearing a jack O lantern sweatshirt and it is February.
Yeah, Casey, what brought you to that? I noticed that earlier.
I honor Halloween year round. I don't know what to say.
Yeah, Rosie's been making me play Halloween music for her in the car, so you two can have a little tricker treat party together.
So Rollin's is like watching.
The footage, She's like, dude, these these dudes are boring as fuck. Is this what guys talk about when their wives are gone and lives like focus more on the actual crime.
She's like, these girls do not look eighteen.
Then they spot Judge Wheeler a judge, They spot a Bronx eightya. They spot two assemblymen and a councilman. Like, this party is supposedly I got all these higher up people, but.
I guess not higher up.
Like maybe my comment before about the rent stuff was misplaced, because it's not like these are finance bros, like we've seen those sex parties before. These are like public servant guys, so they make money, but they're not like drowning in money. So I guess they got a tip about this party from a nurse who said that the girls were scared but wouldn't name any names.
So Dods is like, let's get in there.
He's like it's to bust in and lives like we need to wait for more illegal shit to happen. So far, we're just seeing a lot of girls sitting on laps. Suddenly, the girl that is sitting on the judge's lap starts like coughing, and she wants to go to the bathroom, but this creepy judge like won't let her go, and so Caresee jumps in and is like, git neied water, honey, and then the creepy judge is like, you'll get your turn.
Not great language.
And then the masturbader woman interjects and she's trying to like calm things down. And then another creepy guy gets in Creasey's face and calls him Jersey. It's like he has a very clear, uh, New York accent. But then he shoves Coresey. A fight ensues and a lot of the guy guys like join in and it's all because Cariese's offering a girl a glass of water just over the line.
He should not have done that. So then one of the guys, how dare you?
I like it when they can barely produce saliva. So a guy that's there pulls a gun and then it's like, uh oh gun. The squad moves in. Everyone like live Rawin's Dodds are all in there. They're like, drop it. But there's two guys now with guns on them. It's a black guy and a guy with a mustache, and they're they're like, we're on the job with vice. And they're like color of the day and they're like yellow, and like there's not that many colors.
Right, There's gotta be a better way to do this.
I feel like you could possibly guess the color of the day, right, Like there's not that many colors. I don't know unless they're like puce, Like are they doing random colors or is it usually just like red, green, blue, brown?
Orange? Yeah, I remember there was certain comedy places that would have different drink ticket colors every day. But I knew an alcoholic comedian, great guy, great guy, great father, but he he would keep different color tickets in his backpack at all times. I know.
Yeah, No, I don't know who you're talking about, but I know people that have done this. Yeah, like I think I have today's color for drink tickets, yeah.
And he just like always had tickets ready. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I feel like they were such currency in New York.
During stand up that I was like, I think if I had an extra one, I keep it in my wallet and be like, I don't know in case I end up back at that bar.
So sad because I need a vodka soda so badly. I had one of the worst fockasodas in my life yesterday. I was just like it was just disgusting. Maybe i've it was probably well or something, but I was just like, this tastes like college, and I don't why is this happening. Yeah, it's probably was bad vodka. Yeah, but it's like even with like I I it was just so bad.
Remember when somebody asked you, what do you would you like grey Goose or smearing off? It's like, what is that question? Nobody wants smearing off over Greg Goose. Okay, so Color of the Day. That's my two cents on that. So everybody's got their guns on everybody and they're telling Benson like we're vice. You just blew a two year undercover investigation, and we get to Benson looking a little
bit panicked, and then it's the credits. So now Barbara shows up at the precinct and he goes, Lieutenant, what fresh hell awaits?
And it's like do you hate us? V? You?
I just love that you want? He is so funny, Like, you know, we did lose like when Munch left, we lost a lot of the humor. Barba had some of the humor. And then he's gone, too we need more. We need like a Ada. Coreese's too serious. We need an Ada with a couple zingers like Barba. So anyway, Benson fills him in, shows them all the high up creeps that they busted. Barba's not surprised about Judge Wheeler at all. Clearly there have been rumblings and the girls aren't talking.
No one knows shit.
These two vice detectives are named Russo and Jefferson, and they say they were working their own case, but they're not telling anybody who through the party. The only person at this party who wasn't an underage sex worker or a public servant was Nina Kelly, a nun much like sister peg So. Now We're in interrogation with Nina Kelly and she's got her wig off and she's talking to CARESI and Benson and they're like, so, why was a nun at a sex party? And she's like, I'd really
prefer to talk to a woman. I'm not comfortable with him. And it's like, girl, same, like I would almost always rather talk to Benson than any man.
So he leaves and she.
Goes, I'm not comfortable with mail cops and it's like again, diddo, and Benson says, yeah, as a madam, I bet the cops really bum you out, and sister Nina is like, I'm not a madam. I've spent months trying to infiltrate the ring to save these girls. So this is a lot like the Lily Taylor character in the super Bowl episode of Undercover Mother, where they do a big Super Bowl they sting and they think she's a madam at first, but she's really just been working this ring forever, trying to get in.
Benson tries to get.
Info from her, and she's like, I can't be found to be cooperating or I won't be able to save any more girls. So now everyone's so tight lipped about this party what's going on, And now Dodds is in another room with these two guys from Vice and they're keeping their lips zipped and this is above their pay grade. They said, their cover story in the operation is that they're dirty cops. That's why they were allowed to have
guns and badges like on them at the time. But there's no record of these guys being undercover, and their captain told them not to file anything because all these Johns are so high powered they'd have access to that information.
So the captain.
Finally shows up and he is actually in another episode. He's in the episode Beef that we have not done on the podcast, but we do it on live shows. And he plays the guy who writes Expose as about like dangerous toys and meats and and like he's like tries to be a Michael Moore type of like expose guy, and in this episode he has like really bad, puffy, long white sideburns.
Well, my favorite part in Beef, you know, we've done that episode live a few times when I thought some guy was a dean of a school and he didn't look like a dean, and you were like, his name is just Dean.
I do love that so long white sidebirds man that we know from Beef. He rolls in, he shades Baby Dodds with a quickness. He's like, I thought your dad said you were moving up, like immediate shade to Dodds. And then he goes to chat with Benson and she's like, sorry for the confusion, but like, lot, why don't we work together on this? And he's like, ooh, wish I could help, but this is a long game for us.
Guys are too high up.
And then he reveals his true feelings that where SVU sees victims, they see horrors. Basically, he goes, these girls are not exactly Madonna's and it's just like, I remember.
What, why do you have to be a Madonna? Wow? Exactly.
I mean he thinks these are first of all, if they're under eighteen, they're not able to consent really in sex work. So it just reminds me of what we talked to doctor heather Berg about, who is a woman who writes about sex work and who we just found out as cousins with our producer Casey, but we talked to her for the episode Counselor It's Chinatown just to get some perspective on the sex the life of sex workers,
and get some facts about sex trafficking. And what she told us was that the majority of girls that get funneled into sex work and sex trafficking are done so by a member of their family or someone they know personally. So acting like these girls are just like these like young teen horrors is like so wild and so like so thirty years ago.
I don't know. This man has a very old old worldview. I also refuse to acknowledge that like teens are kids or like that it's wrong because they want to fuck teens, So like whatever narrative they are going to have in their head to like excuse it and not see themselves as the pedophiles they are.
Yeah, well we see live obviously get a look of like ugh, like fuck you, because it's it's wild that this episode comes out in twenty sixteen, Like you would hear stuff like that all the time when we would do older episodes, but like, oh, she's no virgin or she's no angel or whatever. But it's like you'd think people's like viewpoints change, but they don't, of course, and so yeah nobody does. But I mean, mind you I'm constantly evolving.
I'm just thinking about the way we treat women that come forward about stuff to this day. The Amber Herd trial was like a very oh telling way of how we view women.
Yeah, I don't want to hear another fucking message about amberhood her Do not send me one.
So oh you see.
Live, get me too, don't send me yeah to the personals or the business. So you see Live get pissed and he's like, whatever, we're already inside you guys can't get involved or this whole operation will be blown. And he's like, bye, bye, I'm getting my guys and I'm head and out. And she's like, well, why don't you let me run it by Barbara? And he big times her and he goes, oh, why don't you call the deputy inspector and see what he has to say. So she's like she basically is like, well, let me see
what the ADA has to say. And he's like, I've actually got people way above the ADA, so fuck you. So SVU is getting fully shut out of this whole investigation.
So now the gangs all which got to them just makes them want to investigate more.
I know. It's like, don't you guys watch the show, don't you know what They're like that only is going to light a fire underneath them even harder. So the gang's all discussing how they're getting niced out, and of course Nepo baby Dods is like, want me to ask daddy, and this time Lives like, yeah, it's worth a try, any anything we can do, And Benson and Careesi are walking and talking about options, and Sister Nina is like, you're just gonna let those bastards walk. So because they
have badges, they can assault sixteen year old girls. And she's talking about the vice undercover. She's not even talking about like Judge Wheeler and all these other guys. And she says they've assaulted tons of girls, tons of times. They're not cops, they're rapists. So done done, We got to look into this further, right.
I love Sister Nina, Yeah, she's great Heart of Gold.
At Saint Bernardine's, which is a halfway house for women, another nun, an older nun there named Sister Ida, corroborates Sister Nina. She's like, Nina doesn't lie, she's legit. If she said it, it's true, And Benson asks them not about a girl named Kara Gatierrez, same name as Mine, Makara with a seat. She brought Kara to them six months ago. She was very traumatized but healing from you know, she extricated her from this ring and she's like, but
she will not talk to anyone without Sister Nina. So Benson goes to probably get Sister Nina and she the nun really quickly goes, but good to see you again. How Noah, You're like, you adopted him, right, And so I guess this is a shelter that Ellie Porter used to be at. And the nun says, we still say the rosary for Ellie every year. So yeah, it's got a little you know, we constantly have to bring up Benson's tumultuous adoption at every corner in these seasons, so we brought Kara to them.
It really is like these episodes are jam packed enough. We don't need guys. There's so much going on.
They're like sprinkling a little bit of Noah. Maybe Noah broke another finger, Let's go come on, Okay. So now Rollins and Benson are back at the Halfway house with Sister Nina and they're talking to Kara, she's very scared, and she points out Russo out from the iPad and she's like, he's one of the cops who's at all the parties and one of the ones that made us do stuff. And then she also I d's Jefferson. So now she's ideed both cops out of nowhere, out of
a lineup. And Benson's like, I hate to do this, but I really need the details, and Kara's like, okay, well, these guys forced us to go down on them. They we had to pretend we liked them. And then one time they super drunk and they brought me into a room and they took turns like assaulting me. So then eventually sister Nina earned her trust and got her out of that life. And they asked, well, who took you to the parties? And Nina's like, no way, she is
not talking about that. It's too dangerous. Where is this going? So that's the act, that's the commercial break and the end of act one, But like what's going on? Like who's so high up that we can't find out? You won't tell us, like who these people are? So now top of Act two, Benson brings this info to Tucker at IAB and baby Dodds doesn't think that these guys are even undercover. They think that they're just like using
the shield to be part of a sex ring. But Benson says, well, their captain confirmed the op and Dodds thinks he's in on it too, and Tucker's like, well, this is going to be hard to prove. But I've also dealt with these two cops before Twist, he says, about a year ago, but nothing stuck because people accuse vice cops of shit all the time, it seems, I guess. So if IAB questions them about a high level investigation, they're going to have to give up the information to
save their shields. And then Benson and Tucker exchange what I would call a sexual look. And this is episode seventeen, and we just got confirmation that these two are hooking up in episode fifteen Collateral Damages, where our buddy Hann Gabraham goes bye bye for child sex abuse images. So they are together, but they're trying to keep it kosher and business like in the squad, but you can tell there's something going on there.
So now in IAB.
Interrogation, which looks by the way like the lovely conference room of a modern hotel. Like it's like the lighting is beautiful. There's like gorgeous, like high gloss furniture. It's beautiful. They've got mustache man Russo and his lawyer. It's maybe his lawyer, maybe his iab rep are those are those lawyers or they iab reps just iab reps. That's a great question. I don't know the answer to that. But he's got a woman there with him who's like defending him.
And then it's Tucker and his partner, and so he's like, tell me where we want to hear your side. And he's like, well, whose allegations are these the allegations of hookers?
And he's like try high school girls. And Russo says, well, not only that, like how are you working at vice? You're you're you're claiming you're there to help and be a cop, and yet you're calling them hookers and they're worthless and they're like don't matter and their opinions don't matter. Then why are you working to help? Like why are you there? Then?
I think they're there because of a higher level drug issue. They don't really care about the trafficking that's not really why they're in there. They're in there for like drugs and like, uh, extortion.
I don't know.
I think vice is mostly concentrated on on drug stuff, right, No.
Vice is all vices. It's like, oh, yeah, so it's it's sex crime, it's prostitution. Yes, so you're right. So they see them as criminals because they meet them as prostitutes. Yes, yeah. Because to me, I'm like, if you're claiming that you're there to help and you're a good cop, why are you like dismissing these women and victims, you know, yeah.
Because that's that's a full worldview difference. They don't see them as victims even though they're underage, because they see them dressed up hooking up with guys for money, and they think that's like a choice and something that they're consenting to it that they have the ability to consent to the guy. Russo says these girls are low hanging fruit. The roots of the tree can't be discussed, and he admits that he's like, let these girls get trafficked, and he's like.
It's part of the job.
And Tucker's like, I disagree, and they're like, how about the rapes? Of sixteen year old girls, and then we switched to the interview. It's like all the same people, including the IAB rep, but it's Jefferson. It's the same room, just different cop in the chair. And he's like, I do not understand this, Lisa. I watched it six times and I can't understand what he says. So tell me if you can help me figure this out. He goes, we're cops. We don't engage in the sexual activity, so
they make us as cops. That's why they're coming after us. Say it again, we're cops. We don't engage in the sexual activity, so they make us as cops. That's why they're coming after us. What are you talking about? Like, your whole thing is that you're a dirty cop. Everyone knows your cops, so you would be expected to engage in the sexual activities, so nobody had to make as a cop because that's your job, that's your cover, that you're a cop. I don't really get it. If anyone
can help me clarify. I watched it six times and I did not understand the fucking what the guy was saying. And he's like, it's they're pimps, putting them up to it, and they're trying to create reasonable doubts since SPU busted them, and he won't name any names, and he says, if one pp won't give.
Up the target, maybe that should tell you something.
And I think that kind of gets to Tucker because he's like, yeah, that's true, Like if this is that high up, like what's going on? So back at the precinct, they're playing whiteboard, you know, their little whiteboard Tetris game that they like to play with the whole gang. And Tucker's there and he's like, Tucker's like, they called my bluff. They'd rather risk a morals charge than name names. And
none of these girls are cooperating either. Two of them, Natalia and Margaret went to Saint Fabiola's and so did Karagodierras. And this perks up Tucker's little ears because he's like, I might know someone who works there. His cousin, Eugene is a psychologist and a priest, and the last he heard he worked at the school CARESI is founded that Tucker doesn't know every detail of his cousin's employment history. He's like, he's a cousin, you don't even know if
he works at the school. It's like, I have cousins. I don't even know what state they live in, Like you know what I mean, Like.
The Italians are all about family.
The Italians, I mean, they're family. We just have a huge family. I have dozens of cousins, Like I just can't remember, Tucker.
If they're Irish Catholics, then yeah, the cousins. Yeah.
So it's just weird to be like, oh, you didn't get like he didn't post it in the family Facebook chat or whatever that he was moving to another school. It's just so funny Kreese, He's like, he's your cousin.
You don't even know. I forgot what comic did this joke. But I just as someone be like, do white people have cousins? I feel like white people don't have cousins.
Well, it is funny to me when some people their cousins are like their siblings. You know, people are just so close to their cousins and other people just aren't. I think it's like totally different family dynamics. But I'm trying to think I have my cousins in New York City. Are the cousins that I'm the closest to, Like you met my cousins about you've met my cousin Sabastian.
A bunch like those are my cousins. I'm the closest too, and then the.
Rest of them just live far away or when I used to be close to when I was a kid, but now she's a full trumper and she blocked me on Facebook. So there's that, So that there's that careesy. That's sometimes why people don't know when their cousins change schools.
So so then baby Dodds goes as strange Irish relatives, how rare because Tucker talks about how, like him becoming a priest, they kind of lost things they had in common, like that they sort of separated over that, and so Tucker fucking yeah, well no, I think like I think maybe you know, later is sort of accused that Tucker like lost the Lord or you know, he doesn't have like the same religious fervor that maybe his family does.
So Tucker's like, I'm gonna go check with him, and him and Benson have another little flirty moment, so they're laying it on. So now at Saint Fabiola's we see Tucker's cousin Eugene is our old buddy, one of the original friends of the Pod, Michael O'Keefe.
Yeah, that's wild. He was one of our like first guests.
Yeah, like full pandemic. You were in an airbnb when we talked to him. We were sitting next to each other with like the Splitter. It was so different. If you remember one of our first episode's Counterfeit, he played like a bad cop who was kind of like a Red Herring bad cop. He'd end up being like the bad cop, but then crime was a bad cop, right, And he was Amanda Seifried's dad in the episode Outcry as well. So he's been He's also been in a ton.
Of regular law and order.
I think I don't know about criminal intent, but he's been in the mother Ship a lot. So he was the one that told us that they established something called the O'Keefe rule where people had to wait like six months to a year or something before coming back on the show because he was coming back so often at the beginning. So you cousin Eugene immediately makes a joke about Tucker being in a church.
He's like, am I gonna get struck by lightning?
Like he's making all these gags about you know, because I guess Tucker has, like I said, left the lord behind.
And he's like, what happened? Is some everybody okay?
And Tucker's like, Aunt Caroline's fine, even though she smokes three packs a day, and then they shake hand like they don't hug.
This is police business. He's like, do you know why I'm here?
And Eugene is like, of course, I see in Italia and Margaret. I check in with them every day. I even took one of their confessions. And Tucker's like, well, can you give me any info that they told you? And he's like, between the seal of the confessional and the hippolaws, my lips are sealed, like I can't talk. He's like, well, what about any other troubled girls? Have you heard about Kara Goodieraz And he's like, oh, yeah, she dropped out six months ago drugs. You know, she's
an addict living in foster care. These gangs know who to prey on, so they're really trying to like push the conversation towards gangs a lot. So Tucker's like, which gangs? And the cop the dirty cops have been trying to push everything on BX nine and everyone's like, this seems a little high up for a street gang. Like BX nine's not having parties where judges are invited.
Do you know what I mean? Like, that's not really the vibe.
B X nine is like killing someone and like leaving their body in a tree. So before he can even answer about which gangs, the monsignor shows up. This guy's name is Moni Monsignor.
I don't know. I keep from the thing with all these Catholics, they're more drag than drag, you know what I mean, with other little funny names and hats. It's just like it's so wild to.
Me that, yeah, well the hierarchy of it too, I mean, it's like monarchy and like figuring out who's higher than who, but the but cops are like that, who's higher than a lieutenant or a captain or a like you know this and that, like these hierarchies that exist in these institutions where you can't Did you.
See Spicy Meatball's latest drag number that has catapulted her to I think big fame. She went, who's that little twerp? And it keeps lying about stuff in the government? Who was George Santos George Santos. She went up as the guy what's his name again, George Santos. Yes, so she came out as George Santos and then threw out the number, turned into the drag queen version of him and had like, you know, a wig waiting and the reveals are a
red glitter dress. But it's just like, drag is such art and so cool, and fuck Tennessee and fuck Instagram for shadow banning her, and it was just such a cool number.
That is, no Meatballs so good. I just finally got to meet my Meatball last summer and Nicole's house and was like, I know Meatball's prom date. I'm friends with Meatball's prom date. So I was like, I know the girl you went to prom with and he's like, oh, I got no where.
So and so before you know, she comes out in George Santos drag like news things are on a big screen. Whatever she is shadow band, but if you can find her, well we'll share this me.
Share it and we'll share it when this when this episode comes out, Kasey, can you send me a note? So, yes, this mon signor shows up in his Hi mon signor drag and he's like he's like, I'm sorry, like we really just can't talk about the students. And they're like, okay, well what about Sister Nina, And mont Signior says, well, I only know one sister Nina, and it's like there's only one Sister Nina in all of New York City. And they're like, and she's on medical ly for psychiat reasons.
And I'm upset to hear that she's been dealing with children because they can't sanction her being around kids. So what's going on there?
So now we're back in.
Barbara's office and Barbara's like, so you've got these dirty cops and the key witness is a nun with mental health issues and Benson's like, yeah, but that could just be like a case they pinned on her to discredit her. And so the cop. Barbara's like, all right, the cops are out, the John's are out, all of the girls are out except Kara, but she's too scared to testify.
Would she maybe come and talk to Barbara?
So now we're at the halfway house where they saw Kara originally, and Sister Ida's like, she's been in her room all day.
She didn't even come out for dinner.
They go to her room and they find Kara lying in bed, oh deed, with a needle in her arm, and Rollin's actually says, no need to call of us. She's gone so very sad. And that is the end.
Of AC two.
Top of AAC three lives, like, where did she get the heroin? We've got our friend of the pod Karen sen Lee playing the Emmy Susan Chung, and she goes the mechanism of death is respiratory arrest due to pulmonary demon caused by acute drug intoxication, and they tell her care has been cleaned for six months, and Emmy goes well, sometimes addicts go back to their old dosage, and Rollins is like, but is it possible someone gave her a
hot shot? And we have heard about hot shots a lot in the show, but I decided to look up the definition and it is a dose of heroin or a similar drug contaminated with a toxix substance that is intended to kill the user.
So the doc.
Says, well, I can't prove it, but if this concentration we're going around, I'd be seeing a lot more id ods. It's kind of like the way that ventanyl is huge right now, Like you know there's ventanyl and all kinds of cocaine and molly and stuff like that, and doctors at emergency rooms kind of see what the trends are. So she's ruling it undetermined, pending the SVU in investigation, but she said, if it makes any difference, it was a very humane death. She would have been fast asleep
by the time her lungs filled with water. Where does the water come from? I don't know, just like water in your body.
I don't know.
I was confusing to me, but I'm sure someone will send me a graphic to description.
So they tell.
Sister Nina what happened, and she's obviously devastated. She knows Kara was killed and she never should have brought her to the s FU detectives and Benson is like, tell us who did this? And Nina's like, wait a second, who even knew Kara was at the shelter. It had to be someone in your squad, like I only brought you guys here, and She's like I'm going to be next, and Benson's like, we got to get you out of here.
I know a place where you can go now we're talking to Sister Ida, the nun at the halfway house, and she's like, Kara was super upset. A priest went to her room to receive her confession. It was Father Akinola. He's a lovely man from West Africa who fills in sometimes. He's not the regular priest. So now we're at Saint Horatio's talking to Father Akinola. He's so sad and he's heartbroken about Kara Kara, and.
He why did I mispronounce my own name?
And she says Kara was struggling with the arrest of her former classmates. He says he didn't see anything. You didn't see anybody go into her room, and that Kara was an addict and they always find a way to get drugs. And then writers they're leaving and he's like, I could talk to the other girls and see what they know, Like he's trying to be helpful. So back to the whiteboard with the gang. Who else knew we
were talking to Kara? Besides us? The only people that knew we were talking to Kara were Sister Nina, Sister Ida, Barba, and Iab and maybe the vice cops Russo and Jefferson and He's like, I never put Kara's name in the system, and I didn't even tell my partner about this. And then Benson realizes, but you did check with your cousin Eugene about her.
Done done, if I do say so myself.
So Tucker rushes to the church with Benson to confront his cousin Eugene, who's like chatting with a bunch of young Catholic schoolgirls, which I do think is like the show being like something's up, and he's immediately accusing him, and Eugene's playing dumb and he's like, she died because of the drugs, and Tucker is laying it on him and he's like, this is you you got her killed? And Eugene's like, I'm denying part of being anything. They were like, so are.
You part of the ring? Or do they put you up to it? And he goes neither.
I was Kara's guidance counsel. The accent O'Keefe is doing is a lot.
It's a lot. I was just about to say, like, is it really good or is this terrible?
I can't tell because at times I think it sounds Boston, but maybe he moved from Boston.
Who knows.
I meant the feeling Tucker's family is from New York. I feel like you feel like they're Queen's Irish or something.
You know, Yeah, but the cousins could be everywhere. But like it was just it was just so much. But I'm wondering what the director or the other actors are they like, you're killing it, O'Keefe, Yeah, what you're doing? Or was everyone talking about him behind his back, being like, what's what this accent? I don't know.
It seemed really heavy and at times I thought, is this Boston? Like I couldn't so the accent work is truly wild, and Benson has to calm both of the men down.
She's like getting in between them.
She's pulling Tucker off of his cousin, and Eugene says he never let anything slip about Kara.
She was in with the gangs. There's no conspiracy.
He thinks Tucker's been in IAB too long because he thinks everyone's corrupt. And Eugene accuses Tucker of turning his back on God, and Tucker goes, they've got something on you, and then Live pulls Tucker away and he runs out of her Clutches goes back and grabs Eugene and goes, I know it was you, and it's very Godfather like that's a classic god Yeah.
But I'm with Tucker. It's like the cousin is using it against him. But no, this is Tucker's job. Yeah, he is iab because he is good at Yeah, and also to be like, it's the gangs, it's the gangs. I know it's the gang. How how do you know it's the gangs? Yeah, give us the proof.
Tell us the names of the people, like who whatever the girls told you about the gangs?
Like what? And you have a fake accent, so you're shady. Yeah.
So finally Lives screams enough and breaks them up, and Tucker goes, I'm coming for you, and God's not gonna help your ass.
So now we're outside the church.
Tucker is still fuming and says Eugene is a politician. He calculates every word he says, but lives like, but you think he's running a sex trafficking ring. He goes, maybe or he's protecting it, and he's like, I want warrants to dig into his financials, everything, computers, texts, like whatever. Lives like you got to chill and let svus like pursue this. This is not your case, and he's like, we got to get Nina to a safe place and
lives like she already is. So now we're back at Benson's place and she's obviously given Lucy the afternoon off and let sister Nina be her nanny because Sister Nina's in the apartment with Noah when Live and Tucker arrive and Nina immediately looks sketched out by Tucker and I do appreciate how she is fully paranoid about every man that walks on into her life with reason, and they ask her, is there someone at Saint Fabiola's we should
be looking at? And Live begs her, like, please tell us, and she goes, well, you know a lot of times at that place, the guidance counselors know what's going on, and Tucker goes, so we should look at Father Eugene, and Nina's like, how do you know about Father Eugene? And uh oh. She finds out that Tucker's cousin is Father Eugene, and she is not happy. She slowly starts moving towards Noah. She picks him up and she goes, Noah, let's say bye to mister Tucker. He's gotta go right now,
Bye bye. And it's like she's just lightly holding Noah hostage, like it's really kind of freaky, but you don't think she's gonna was cute? Yeah, And he's like, yeah, that
no was really cute. And it's like, I don't want to put any blame on Olivia, but maybe bringing a nun with possible mental health issues to watch your child alone wasn't the move, Like maybe maybe have a tandem thing where Lucy's there at the same time, especially after the Calvin of it all, Like you've already gone through this nonsense, like you need boundaries.
But like, yes, I don't know. She she's about the victims in protection. Yeah, and didn't she hear that about Danny Beck and the fire with elt Fanning. Yeah, Oh my god, that's so true. I'm sure. I'm sure Maloney filled her in when she came back and was like, you won't believe what this dumb bitchy.
Okay, So Tucker goes, Nope, you're right, I'm gonna go. He backs out, He leaves, Live is breathing heavily and She's like, put Noah down. Tucker's gone, this isn't what you think. And then she puts Noah down and Live takes him into another room to go play with an iPad. When she comes back, Nina is freaking out, like trying to grab all of her shit. She's like, I don't she doesn't trust Live father Eugene's cousin is in charge
of the investigation, Like, are you fucking kidding me? And I could see with everything she's seen, with all these higher up people being involved, that would absolutely like spook the shit out of her. And she explains like no, Tucker and his cousin hate each other, it's not a big deal. But Nina's like not hearing any of it. She's like, what are you gonna have me committed again?
More shock treatments? I am not crazy. So now we're getting a whole nother level of the trauma that sister Nina's been through too, that the church seems to have committed her and put her through like involuntary psychiatric treatments that she didn't need. And she thinks Live is either in on this whole thing or she's an idiot and Lives like please don't leave, Please don't go.
And then she's like, you brought me here to kill me.
And then she's like, look, just tell them my promise never to talk about the trafficking ring again and runs out. It's like, if live brought you there to kill you, you'd be dead. She wouldn't be letting you run out of the building.
You know what I mean.
It's when we're letting you walk out of the room, but says something. This episode weirdly has a fifth act. In Barba's office. The mon signor is in there and he's talking to Barbara and they're wrapping up a conbo and then as they're leaving, he goes, I have faith the DA's office will do the right thing. I want to spare these girls any more exploitation. So then Dods and Benson are waiting to get into the office.
They are there to chat with.
Barba, and the mon Signior thanks them for saving the girls and comments how Kara was such a pretty young girl, and it's like, that's not the vibe at s for you, sor like you could talk about how she was a promising student and a wonderful person, but we don't need to talk about how hot she was. When he leaves, Benson is like, what the fuck was he doing here? And Barba's like, still trying to figure that out, but he's not really offering anything. Now, where are the arrest
warrants for Father Eugene and Father Akinola. Barbara's like, listen, babies, A lot of judges don't want to touch this, and and I'm wondering myself if we're making the right moves here.
And then Benson tells Barba about our sweet Yeah. If it's this like high up and it's all this stuff, that's the reason to dig not escape. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's also like it's twenty sixteen when this episode comes out, like it's not weird to dig into the Catholic church, Like it's not weird at all. So Benson tells Barba about Sister Nina's paranoid freak out and he's like, can you blame her vice? And possibly priests are trafficking girls. Then there's the care a leak and Barbara asks Baby Dodds, why don't you step out of the room for a second, and he asks live, what do you know about Tucker? And she goes we go way back he's intense, he's
no nonsense, good at his job. And Barba's like, but he did try to ruin both of your partner's lives, right.
She's like, She's like, ah, we're past that. It's pretty funny.
And then Barba says, well, the mon signor made some serious allegations and she's like, oh, against father Eugene. And he goes no against Tucker and Lives like, what now and he said, Monseignor mel Reagan and Eugene went to Tucker a year ago with info that Vice was running girls from their school. They named Russo and Jefferson, and they said Tucker buried it. And Live is like, there's no way. He wanted to kill Eugene the other day.
And he's like, maybe he just wanted you to think that, and it's like, I don't think Tucker went to drama school. And Live is like there's no way, and Barba's like, I thought you guys all hated this guy. I'm so confused, and Live is defending him and she's like, his job is to be relentless. And then Barbara, basically a detective as well as a lawyer, sniffs it out and goes are you involved with him, and Live goes the lot the violins swell and Live goes, don't ask me that.
And there's not that many questions that Live darts and dodges in this series, and this is one where she's like, don't don't even get into that with me. She's always in secret relationships though, like right, because she didn't tell people about Cassidy. Really, she didn't tell people about Tucker. She didn't tell people Abo, Oh, Harry Connick Junior, there's a.
Guy fucking outside of the office.
Yeah, well, she's busy where she gonna meet people. She had a trainer that one time. I was hopeful, but oh they weren't fucking.
They were just worthing I know.
But wouldn't it be fun just for Live to get fucked by a guy with a great body and like, yeah, there's no combo. They just like watch fucking reality TV and bang. So then Barba's like, I just confided in you that an IAB captain might be involved in a sex trafficking ring and you don't mention that you two are fucking, and she goes, you're wrong about him. Bring him in ask him yourself, and Barba says, you and I are done talking and Live looks busted, which is
a rare look. You just never see her looking like, fuck, I fucked up in this way.
And she walks out.
She meets Tucker at a dive bar and it looks very cozy to me, and he goes nobody saw you.
And she goes here like it's the worst bar in the world, and I'm like, I drink there. It looks fun and like in Sex in the City when Carrie and Bigger having the affair and she's like, well, no one knows that set fifty seventh and said, well they only know us here, and it's like there, it just blocks away like some you could have run doctor appointment, a meeting, a cousin's in Like it was so funny the way. But I wasn't living in New York at the time, but it is so funny how it was,
like Brooklyn, I'd rather die uptown, no thanks. Even the house sides are like, I don't go below fourteenth And it's like it is just such a tiny city that it is.
You run in all the time. Yes, you need to leave the Burroughs. I think if you want to have a true affair, you need to be. That's why they bust people in Jersey fucking and sometimes in the show. So anyway, lives like, I'm a lieutenant. I'd drink Scotch out of a crystal highball, bitch, I shouldn't be in a place like this, and she goes, so group one is investigating you for sex trafficking, corruption and murder and he goes, yep, Cousin Eugene set me up good, and
he says, you know how this goes. Don't stick your neck out for me, or it'll look like you're covering for me. They can't prove shit. I didn't do shit. I'll be fine, and lives like, yeah, well, I'm probably gonna still do stuff like and he's like, you want to go after the church, City Hall and Albany for an iab guy that most people hate. Stay out of it, And then lives phone buzzes and she's like, well, looks like I can't really stay out of it. One Pp
wants to see her immediately back at the squad. Yeah, back at the squad, Baby Dodds definitely calls Barbara Barbara. He says something about Barbara and I definitely heard it every round It three times and it sounds like Barbara. And he's telling Rollins and Creasy how Barbara wouldn't say shit in front of him. And then Rollin's like, did you call Daddy yet? And he's like, yeah, but he
hasn't gotten back to me. It's like, I love how everybody now it's just like, yeah, call your dad, and Rollins brings up the Catholic Church and then looks at Careese and apologizes to mister Catholic himself, who's like, Crisy goes, ninety nine percent of the parice are good guys. It's like, where'd you get that figure? I really don't think it's that's the figure. I think the figure is definitely way off.
And he's like, but the church brought this on themselves, so we Coreesy does not think that the churches is infallible in any way.
It's like the not all men of yeaigi, it is all the priests.
Yeah, but also the one percent is such a small number, like it's definitely bigger than that. And then Cariese says Barbara too. I swear to God I heard Cariese say Barbara. But he's a little bit more mealy mouth. He's more like Barbara, so like, I couldn't really hear if he said it, but I think everybody go back and check. I think they both say it's the last two minutes of the episode, Dodds and Carisy both say Barbara anyway.
Benson walks in asks Cariese and Rollins get me some evidence boxes, and then Dodds and she goes, Dods, can I talk to you for a minute. He goes in her office and he's like, what's up? And she's like, you'd know better than me. He's clueless, and she's like, you're actually telling me you don't know what's going on, and he really doesn't, and I believe him. He looks
like a totally like adult. And she's like, I'm out effective immediately, and Rollin's and Carisy come in with the boxes and she's like, Dodds is acting commander of SVU starting now. And she tells all of them you're dismissed as she starts packing shit into boxes and we see her take her Lieutenant Olivia and at benson name plate, and the EP goes dick wolf out on that, and we don't know what's going to happen.
I mean, this is such a cliffhanger. To those who don't watch the show, you're really it's like you're watching a narrative soap opera like this is the nineteen thirties, and check back with your radio next week, like that's a good episode. And that's I mean yeah, back.
In the day, kids, you couldn't binge, so you had to wait and wait a.
Whole week and see what happened.
Because these episodes did air after each other, like a week after each other. So it's like, but there's not even like a to be continued on it. You just end the episode being like, is Olivia Benson fired? Like and you never really do know. Sometimes people leave these shows, but I think it would be you know, spoiler alert, She's still around.
But we're going to find out what happens with the rest of this.
But before that, Lisa, please take me down the True crime Street my pleasure.
We'll see you soon. Listen. I'm gonna be talking about undercover nuns. There are nuns and they go undercover and they help sex trafficking and you know, human trafficking victims all across the world. A lot of the articles were in twenty fifteen, and I wonder if they hired PR Like, I don't know what happened in twenty fifteen, but every single article had the exact same facts over and over across I'm saying complex was involved. Like everyone had an
article stating the exact same facts in twenty fifteen. So I think they did a real big PR push or somewhere where I just broke and everybody was like how interesting,
who knows? Yeah. And then also a lot of sources I found were like Christian news, and I refuse to use those because, you know, especially after we talked to that professor, and like Christian's views on human trafficking oftentimes are also anti sex work porn, and it's like convoluted, and it's not just about helping people, it's also about like prude culture and like anti woman and sex. So
you know, it's so this was a little confusing. It was just like this PR push a lot of Christian news and I would be reading something and then I would read one thing and be like, wait, what source is this? Okay, it's a Christian thing. It would always like say one sentence too far, But you know, we did our best here. So this is straight up a low key network of about eleven hundred religious sisters aka nuns, and they go undercovers sex workers to help rescue trafficking
victims for brothels. The group is called Talitha kom Talitha. Come use your imagination. But if you're a Bible thumper, you know what this is. And it's from the Bible. Jesus says this, and he and it means little girl, I say to you, rise up, And he said an aramaic to a twelve year old girl who died, and then Jesus took the girl and then they got up and walked around. So if you want to know more about this, it's Mark's fifth chapter, a Gospel of Mark's
fifth Chapter. So did it sound like I was speaking truly French? Like I don't know anything I just said? Was it obvious I was reading word for word? So that's what the organization is called. And they see its name as an expression of the transformative power of compassion and mercy for those who have been wounded by the
many forms of exploitation. Their mission is to share and maximize resources that religious life has on behalf of prevention, protection and assistance, awareness raising, and the denouncement of trafficking in persons, and that's in quotes from their mission statement on their website in our show notes. And so these infiltrating supernuns go into the brothels and a lot oftentimes they'll buy children being sold into slavery, and a lot
of the figures were really hard. So like in twenty fifteen, a lot of the stuff said we're in eighty countries and expanding to one hundred and forty countries demand because of the demand of efforts to combat human trafficking. And then I found as of twenty twenty one, it's in ninety two countries, but someplaces say seventy seven countries, so I don't even know. I don't even know if I can name ninety two countries, but it's around the world,
and the nuns are out there. And there's also like stories of nuns infiltrating and helping traffic victims and sex workers dating back to the seventy sixties. Like I found lots of things, so this is like an organized network and they're working together, and the popes even endorse this group. But like it seems like nuns have been really going hard protecting women. For the nuns are nunning doll.
The nuns are nunning, and may I ask how many priests are getting out there infiltrating fucking sex rings.
Are any priests doing any of that work? Just wondering. No, it seems like there's a seems like there's a.
Fundamental difference between a nun and a priest in this situation.
Well, the priests are like power, power, power, listen to me talk, and the nuns are like, we want to help. Yeah. There's a line in Marcela Shell where he's like he I forgot what he's comparing, but he goes, oh, it's about gardening, like how the grandma, Grandma Connie works with the bugs, and Marcella Shell goes, you know, it's like Sister Act where you know they do graffiti for transformation or something like. Marcel has like a really funny line
about substract too love that. Wait, did you know that?
On my semester abroad in Rome, I lived in a convent.
No, you're like a little Katie Perry. No. And we had these really cool nuns that helped us.
And I would go back like years later and be like, hi, I studied abroad here, and they'd be like, how are you we remember, like and they would wear new Balance sneakers like underneath their little outfits, and they looked so cute and they were always like so cool and nice. They just helped like run the convent where my study abroad program was.
Yeah, but you know, I also hear about nuns hitting kids with rulers. I'm not saying all nuns are great. These nuns are good, you know if you were bind. Yeah, the base of this organization is in Rome, and their networks are active in five continents, and they're coordinating anti trafficking efforts of fifty intercongregational networks organized at the nationalsh local level, and then ten networks that include the joint coordination of several countries at the regional level. So that's
what I mean. Like I found all these other homes and places and stories, and so I think this is like the top organization that connects all of these nuns together. But I don't know. It is really cool and it is a huge problem. Obviously. Human trafficking is the third third biggest illegal market and profits criminals up to one hundred and fifty billion dollars a year, So that's a lot.
The international labor organization estimates that roughly twenty five million people are enforced labor across the globe, and nearly five million of those facing forced sexual explos Also included is forced begging. I learned that about that. And what was that fun movie with Dev Patel that brought slum Dog lockdown a millionaire? Oh that's scene with the little boy in his eyes, Like it really has stuck with me all these years, but like, yeah, do you remember this or no?
I love that movie, but I don't remember that part. Maybe I've blocked it out.
They like make kids blind on purpose because then when they beg they make more money because they look more sympathetic. Oh yeah, well you know when I was.
You know, there's also stories about like when when they hold babies, When a lot of beggars hold babies, they're giving kids either heroin or something to drug them so they don't cry. So people are just holding babies that are not crying so people will give them more money.
It's horrible. I think i'd give more money to a crying baby.
I think they just want you to see a beautiful sleeping baby and give money.
Oh yeah, but that slum Dog Millionaires scene really hurts horrible, so forced begging, forced marriage, and then domestic servitude. And it's a different, dificult issue, of course, because it's so caught up with poverty, and you know, the rich thrive off poverty. So I don't know if they'll ever be an end. But and that was said by Mayor Maira kooler A None from Bolivia, and that's what she said about sexual exploitation. Seventy percent of trafficking victims are women.
Ninety percent of them are used for sexual exploitation. Twenty five to thirty percent are like young girls and boys is the next group. The majority of these victims live in Asia in the Pacific region, at about like three point five million, compared to in America where it's around two hundred thousand for the stats. And and you know, and we talk about this now, like we talked about this in the episode about Robert Kraft and that was
the Margaret Show episode. But it's like America right now is all gung ho about like human trafficking and upping it, but it's about money to police forces, and like really it criminalizes the sex workers, not the men that like use that. It's just like because I know people are being snatched and stuff, but it is being overblown in our culture in America right now.
Well like that, Liz Well, I was just gonna say, this episode kind of proves it. They're targeting girls that are in foster homes, that are have drug problems, and they're they're funneling them into human trafficking scenarios, whereas a lot of the media tries to make it seem like your teenage daughter could be walking down the street and shoved into a van and sold into slavery like taken, and that's just not necessarily the way it is. They're
targeting specifically poor groups. They're targeting specifically and and a lot of times it's people are being like we talked to doctor Heatherberg, they're being uh sent into a trafficking rings by people they know to make money. And I mean, I don't know for what it's worth from what I the some of the research I heard. Again, I always point people to this episode about uh trafficking from You're wrong about the podcast that I always talk about. But
a lot of the trafficking is labor trafficking. I mean, sexual trafficking is a lot more headline grabbing but a lot of it is, like I was just reading about like fucking kids that cross the border and are working in like serial factories for no money now because they there's nothing else they can do in our country.
You know what I mean.
Like there's just a lot of forced labor that is also under the trafficking umbrella.
Yeah, And studies according to NBC News suggest that over sixty percent of those who are trafficked for sex wire runaway children. And they're often lured into that life within seventy two hours of leaving home, and that's when they're like vulnerable, they're fresh on the Oh god, this is so sad. There's one story I found of a fifteen year old runaway from Michigan in the nineteen seventies. That's
what I mean. Like this organization, you know, didn't become official till own nine, but these nuns have been out there. So this story just s grabbed me. So in the nineteen seventies, this woman named Leslie King met an older man after she ran away who promised to take care of her, who ended up being a pimp and told her if you try to run or tell the police, I'll kill your mother. Son sister and brother, and I'll cut up your body parts and spread them across the
state of Michigan if you're fifteen. She believes that person, you know what I mean. Yeah, she got to work in Grand Rapids, Michigan, until a woman named Sister Francett started showing up with her Catholic sisters to talk and pray. But Leslie would never talk. But one day she ended up going to rehab emptying her purse and the sister's card fell out. So after she left rehab, she went to live at a place called Rosehaven, which was run
by the nuns who worked with the Sister Francet. And so you know, this has been a tradition, it seems like. But like I said, this group, Talitha kumb formerly was established in two thousand and nine, and it promotes collaboration, like I said, among the networks organized at national, regional and continental levels, even if each network remains unique and operates within its own country or region of this International
Union of Superiors General UISG. And so the nuns often dress up as sex workers head into the streets to integrate themselves into the brothels. The group is made up of roughly sixty thousand religious sisters. They work.
I would love to see this shopping trip, by the way, I would love to see just like a bunch of nuns like at Forever twenty one, like trying on outfits to try to fit into brothels.
Yeah, I love it. They work on their own, even though they have the support of Pope Francis, who has said that I don't care about the Pope, but I guess it's like cool that the Pope's into it, who says that problems are the best resolved by going out into the streets while he sits in a fancy hat at the Vatican. But yes, my.
Husband has a joke that's like, yeah, the Pope is like the most progressive god. This pope is like the most progressive guy who lives in a castle and thinks that wizards are real, you know, Like, I guess he's progressive for someone that believes in magic.
So they're super They're a super low key group. They don't trust local police obviously, they do not trust government obviously, no corporations, and they don't trust the male clergy. They yeah, alone love it. Nobody knows they're there, and even when they did know, like the pimps did know. They left the nuns alone because they knew that there's nothing that they could say or do that would have the nuns run away. Like the nuns had the spirit of the Lord,
they're not leaving. So they also try to save children who are being sold into slavery by their parents and set up homes in many countries to house these children. There's homes in Africa, Philippines, Brazil, India, so on, all over the world. And you can't generalize about trafficking and slavery because no two countries are the same. It's like
very specific per place to go. And not only do they work in the streets, they also do push for systemic change, lobbying and stronger loss to help combat human trafficking. They also work to restore back dignity to these trafficked people by offering therapeutic, medical, emotional, and financial support. There is a Day of Prayer and Awareness every year. It's February eighth, So next year, if you want to pray
and be aware, that's the day. They also run prevention programs in schools and offer education and training to young people to keep them out of hands of traffickers. So these nuns are busy, they're out there and where think for their work. I love hearing about this.
I love hearing about where like the sort of sister Nina idea came from, because yeah, I've never thought of nuns like dressing up and going in to infiltrate these kind of rings and stuff.
It's kind of a loud story. And of course we'll see you next week for a part two of this episode.
So yes, nore crime, Yes, has even more salacious crimes since.
To speak of more guests, great guests, we have a great guest today, Pumped.
Pumped, Our guest today is a classic double threat, an actor and a sound effects editor and sound designer. She's best known for her recurring role as Gina Murphy on Orange Is the New Black, and she's been featured on shows like What We Do in the Shadows and Chicago Med. But she's also worked professionally in post productions on features
and TV for almost twenty years. She most recently worked as a sound effect editor on A twenty four's X and as the supervising sound editor on the upcoming Apple Plus show Monster Factory. But you know her today as the wily and dedicated sister Nina Kelly. Guys, please enjoy our chat with the very talented Abigail Savage.
We're so excited that you're here. Yeah for you royalty.
Yeah, I hear you. Guys are collecting us like Pokemon.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm trying to catch them all, all the orange babies.
We can't wait. Oh.
I just thought it was funny because our producer Casey goes, oh, you seem like you have a great setup, and your face was kind of like yeah, because you are a sound engineer and a sound designer on the side, so I feel like, not on the side, but like divided.
I guess I wanted to ask you that first.
Like when we first with the first episode we covered that you were in was actually Sugar, the one where you play the like masturbator.
Yeah.
I remember being like, oh, her IMDb has one hundred and six sound credits.
I wonder if she pivoted to acting.
But then when I did some more research about you, it sounded like it was just like a thing you did at the same time as acting.
So I just wanted to hear a little bit more about it.
You want the.
Lowdown on that? Yeah, I always wanted to be an actor, you know, straight through college. And I got out of college and I thought to myself, well, this is not leading lady material. Let's be honest. Regardless of my talent, I'm just not going to get casts like all that often. So I thought to myself, do I want to be like waiting tables as I struggle to be an actor my whole life, or do I want to be in
the industry in the meantime. And crazily enough, I'm in a house right after college with like five other roommates in Williamsburg and one of my roommates is complaining that she has too many internships, poor her and one of the internships is doing post production sound for film, and I was like, dude, I'll take your internship for you. So I just sort of like showed up. I just sort of got an internship without trying, and I literally work at that facility to this day, like twenty years later.
Oh my gosh.
That's how I wanted some kind of career in film while I pursued acting, and I like it just like fell into my lap.
So that's amazing. Were you always like gifted with sound? I? I, you know, I dabbled with the music thing.
I tell myself how to play guitars so I could sing sad lesbian folk songs to myself.
Yes, my genre, made me know my genre.
And in college, all the theater majors for our final production, we all had to do an aspect of the show aside from acting, and I was handed the sound and I learned it was like right around the time when sound was going super digital on computers, and I learned that you could like edit song in all these different ways that they weren't intended to be, and that you could see sound waves on a screen and cut and paste,
and it was like it just blew my mind. So I was already kind of interested in it by the time I left college. So there you go.
Definitely better than waiting tables.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Yeah yeah, what are your pet peeves in sound? In terms of on set and then while you're watching something noticing things that bother you.
Noisy props drive me crazy on set, Like a famous example was on Orange in the kitchen scenes, we all had these gloves on these like super plastic thin, like garbage bag like thickness plastic gloves and it's like the whole scene, all I could hear as an actor is that s and I was like, oh my god, the sound people must be going crazy with that, because like that's an impossible thing. Nobody wants that sound in the
final you know, product of their shows or whatever. So yeah, often on set, I'll sort of notice the noisy props and you know, go through a whole internal monologue about it in my head about like what should we do, how should we work around it, et cetera, et cetera.
So well, let's get into how much noise that crucifix made before you shoved it into your bag. Sister Nina, this character we love, Like, you know, there was this character up until season twelve named Sister Peg who was like another nun played by Charlane Woodward, and she like, she really resonates with people, and I felt like you when you came.
I was like, oh, there's like a new Sister Peg.
There's a new nun like who puts everything aside to help people and does it, you know.
And then unfortunately, Sodi, you didn't make it. You didn't make it.
No, but what an episode tell us, like tell us the SVU situation, because you had done two svus already, you were one of the tunnel people in the episod Control, which is.
Another that we've done, yep, and then.
Then you were in this big two parter in season seventeen. So at this point did they just bring you in for this one?
I mean I auditioned, but okay, they really I mean it seemed like they were very excited about me. You know, they sought me out. I don't know if my agent manager sent sent the stuff. I think they sought me out for it. And I was kind of surprised, and I was kind of worried about getting it too, because it seemed like there was so much, you know, was that it was going to the dark side, like it was going to be a difficult role to play, and I was like, oh, this is going to take a
lot of energy. Yea, but yeah. So yeah, so third times the Charm, Yeah, And it was a blast because you know that the set is this beautifully well oiled machine, and it's just like, uh so they just know what they're doing in this way that is not necessarily the case in all shows and on film and stuff like that. So it's always like a really wonderful experience to shoot with them.
And did you feel that way, like because you're a person that did like season five and then season like I don't even know what sugar was like eight or something, and then seventeen, Like did you feel changes in the set like from the different times that you went.
It was already so smoothly run by season five, Like I was only there for a half day, but if you think about it, I mean there was already the regular law and order, so they just inherited all that knowledge on how to do things quickly and well, and so it was just like it's actually quite intimidating at first because you're dropping and everybody knows each other, everybody knows what they're doing, and you're just this new person
on set. But it was funny because Mariska, who I had scenes with in both of the previous episodes and like conversations with, but she still had no I had no idea who I was, come come this third round and then I think, I think maybe she'd recognize me now if she saw me based on this the sister Kelly Mina Kelly episode. Yeah, yeah, but it was funny.
Was it hard not to be like Marishka we know each other.
Yeah, but then you think, oh my god, like the number of actors that she has had to interact with. It like twenty four seasons at this point.
Yeah, it's hundreds. It's hundreds of people.
And she's dealing with like five at least five new actors every episode. I mean, like, forget it. I yeah, I had. I totally understood why she didn't realize and met me before.
Well, I'm sure that's how people felt coming into Orange as well, because you guys, it seemed like had deep connections with each other.
And yeah, I mean that's the thing Orange was. I was there. I think my first day of shooting was the second day of shooting overall, so we were all and and of course nothing had come out on Netflix yet except for a House of Cards, but that was like slightly different situation. But like we were, it was all just like a bunch of people being kind of excited and curious about like what this thing was we
were creating, you know. And then of course once we got going and realized that it was a hit and everything, I think we were pretty we were pretty inclusive to to the to nubes, you know. Yeah, there, there weren't that many. You know, there were there were only a couple of new actors a season. Really, when you come.
Right down to us, true, we're both like huge Orange fans. I know, we we want to I think we have orange stuff that we want to talk about in a sect, but I just want to ask more a few more SVU things.
Oh please?
So yeah, So getting into this role, were you just like, I mean, this is a wild character because she's this like she has this like pure her religious heart. She wants to help people, but then everyone's gaslighting her like she's crazy. She knows that she's part of this big conspiracy, but kind of no one believes her.
So like, how did you? I don't know, prep like, how did you get into it?
You know, I think it's mostly just something that fits in my personality, the sort of anxiety paranoia thing. It's just like, uh, I think she has this line like I'm not crazy at some point I literally said that on an episode of Chicago Med last year, like I'm just cast as these like really neurotic, terrified human beings.
So like, but they're they're crazy, They're not really ey, No.
We just we just have this vein of tight anxiety that runs to us that people don't understand. Yes, it's it's it's my Jewish neurosis just bubbling up, but so like so so that those parts I think were just instant connection for me. And then I just had to pretend to be Catholic instead of Jewish, and.
Yeah, go oh, there's a lot of guilt, I thnk on both sides.
So it's how was it working with the baby baby Noah, Oh yeah.
The baby who was actually kind of big. I think it was like, because I'm a teeny weeny human being, I am five feet tall and I will always be five feet tall no matter how much I shrink as I age, I would be five feet tall and like barely, I'm not even one hundred pounds. I'm tiny, right, And had I had a newborn or one year old at that point, I can't remember how old she was, but still a very liftable child for me. And then I get on set and they want me to pick this
kid up. And the kid's like, I mean, the kid's three or something, like a normally small kid. But for me, I was like, I've never lifted a child this big before. This is like I don't even know how to do it, and I kept sort of lifting him up by the crotch because that's what you do with babies. But it was it was super awkward. But I just kept thinking,
don't drop the child. Just don't trap the child. Throughout all the scenes where I'm holding him, it's like my all I'm thinking about, like I'm barely getting my lines out, just don't trap the child. Yeah.
But the other scene I think about is you know the car chase and the murder obviously the woods. Can you tell us about shooting that scene?
Well, the car chase is a funny one, okay, crazy. I being a New Yorker, I do have my driver's license, and I did drive while I was in college because it was outside of New York. But then, you know, the day I graduated, I came back to New York and didn't drive again. And like five years later I was like, oh I was I went to LA. My friend was going to lend me her stick shift. I was like, no problem, I drove a stick shift in college.
All this is good. I'm on like some LA highway, like jerking and like completely like it was not like riding a bicycle. I was like, this feels very unsafe. I don't think I'm gonna do this anymore. And I pulled off to the side of the road and she had to like come rescue me. Point being that was sort of the last time I had driven before this episode, and like, so I get on set and I'm like, so, there's driving. I do have my driver's license. I'm not sure if I should have my driver's license.
Uh.
And they were very cool about it, and they got the not the props person, the stunt person. They got the stunt person to sit in the car with me and get me like back up to snuff so that I could conceivably drive a car with a bunch of people in it down right a windy road.
And it was a car.
It was a minivan. Yeah, And so I have a feeling everybody in that car with me was a little nervous while I was doing all that.
That to the performance, I feel like, because when you're being tailed, you're very nervous, you're very stressed.
Ie.
It was like a little bit of that and a little bit a little bit of acting and a little bit of real.
Right, And if there's a jerky camera that's probably the tension of the cameraman knowing that the person behind the wheel hasn't been behind the wheel in ten years. But we all survived.
Yeah yeah.
Oh and then the death right that was fun. I haven't, I haven't. I wanted my eyes to be open. I requested that my eyes be open because I thought that's sort of probably more likely how people die, right like when they're when they die violently.
Their eyes still open.
So for me that was just a little like in like how still can I be? You know?
It was.
It was cool just looking up at the sky being a corpse for a little while. And then it was my lasting on set for that episode. I was I was such a like not a much less important character for that episode because I'm like how that it was this completely uneventful moment Like I was used to, oh, all right, that's a wrap on, Abbey. Yeah, everybody stopping and clapping and then you say thanks, thanks and go away.
But this was just like okay, moving on, and I was like, oh, okay, I guess three weeks of work that's over now, Okay.
It was.
It was funny after the like center of attention from Manhattan transfer to be like you know this like okay, she's wrapped. Get her out of here for the next episode. Yeah, it was fun.
Wow was speaking of the masturbader. She had some like fun highlights. Did you come in with those highlights or did they give you those hs?
They totally gave them to me. Yeah, it was really funny they did. They gave me tons of my makeup too, and all I was like, you know, I don't really wear a lot of makeup, so it was really funny to see them be like, now, this girl's gonna be all like gothy, kind of punky, kind of way uh, way better than the horrific wig I had to wear at the beginning of Manhattan Transfer. I'll tell you that much.
Oh yes, that long like uh yes, sexy galwig.
If if yeh. But it was like it had never been brushed. It was all matted. It was more like a bunch of dead cats on my head than anything else. And even even the hair department was like, girl, we cannot do anything with this. It's just gonna sit there and then it's gonna be off and that's it. I think it was like a prop from the props department, not like something from the hair and nada. So it was just like, oh, okay.
Well, I wonder if it was on purpose, Like maybe the nun didn't know about good wigs.
Right, But hadn't she been undercover for like, yes, a really long time. You think you think that like she would have some cool like Bob, like you know what Uma Thurman has in pulp fiction or something.
Like that, Natalie Portman style, like yeah, undercover Bob.
Yeah, instead of it's like, I do have another hair and makeup question, But this is for your Tunnel character Dot from Control. What was the soot like eyeshadow?
Okay, but you know what's what's super funny about that one? Again? This is the insider.
Uh.
I had just whitened my teeth like three weeks previous or something like before the before the character was even you know, before the audition. So I get to set and they put all this crap all over me, but they never like did anything to my teeth. So like if you watch that seat again, like everytime I opened my mouth, I have these like perfectly bright white, like knon teeth sticking out of this like dirty grubby face.
Maybe Dot was dedicated to dental hygiene and nothing else.
Yeah, there we go. I guess she wasn't a meth head.
Yeah, she was figuring out a way to brush down in the tunnels. Right Where did you shoot the tunnels too, because those looked scary and dark? Was it just in the way.
It was an abandoned subway track a legit. I think it was an L train abandoned L train subway track somewhere.
Yeah, it was cool.
That's like one of my favorite parts of shooting is when you're on location in really weird places like so that was super cool. And then you know, a lot of the shooting of Orange took place in an abandoned children's mental institution. Yeah, so there were ghost ghosts. I mean I think so, but I mean in a more tangible way too, because like when we first got on set, like they hadn't completely cleared the place out, like when
it stopped. So you would go into this room and there were like still stickers on the walls, and there was like a sleeping bag in the corner and like and then there was this Yeah, we were held for like a scene that was going to be in the yards, and like we were in some shock and it was where like all the files were like the case files for the kids or something. It was just boxes and
boxes of these kids case files just gathering dust. And I was just like I could have easily Like it's I could have wandered off and just explored the whole the whole location.
So I see you worked on this sound for something called Monster Factory.
Yes, Monster Factory, that's right. It was just fascinating. It's it's this guy who trains people to become pro wrestlers. Hell yeah, so he gives them like he gives them, yes, all the moves and all the physical stuff, like how to do all of the you know, physical stuff, but also like how to create a character, how to have a personal narrative that drives, you know, people to want
to root for you or against you. Like he's it's it's like in his head is some giant encyclopedia of like the history of pro wrestling and like how to create the magic. And I don't watch pro wrestling. I never have, but like you root for all of these kids, like they're just like one wonderful person after another trying to like pursue their dreams of being a pro wrestler. It's just it's a really freaking good show.
But you got to get Apple plus to a guy.
It's a real guy in New Jersey.
Oh, it's a reality show.
It's yeah, yeah, it's a DOCUI docuseries. That sounds much more serious. Sorry, we don't mean reality show like the stuff we watch. We mean that, yeah, more serious.
Is there a difference in doing sound for like a nonscripted and scripted or like, did you do animated too or not? What's how? What's how are they all different? Well?
Uh, documentary is the most straightforward because you just want to sort of fill in the film, fill in the world a little bit and get everything covered. But you know, there's a lot of talking heads and like after you put in a room tone, like what else is there. I don't do dialogue editing, which is like the sound that's been recorded on set, somebody goes in and they
clean it up and make it sound really good. I do adding all the extra stuff, so I always use yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, wow yeah, And so I do foley and effects and backgrounds basically. So the documentary is very straightforward, pretty easy. When well, I don't, I edit the folly and now a lot of the fully that I do I generate off of my keyboard. Like we have this library, Like I make all of my footsteps by doing this on my keyboard, and it generates sounds of somebody actually walking.
But then it's like in sync to the person on screen and it's like boom, it's done. See this is why I think so is so cool. Like I do crazy stuff with my keyboard, Like I can transform my voice into like a howling dog if I need a howling dog or whatever. Anyway, I won't get into it because not everyone is that interested.
I follow fully artists on Instagram. Oh yeah, well yeah, I watched them, like do make this? I like that.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
I mean we used to record fully we had a fully pit and everything, but then we've accumulated all these sounds over the years, so I can just get them
from my sound library. And then the question was like, well, how do I get it to like fall in sync into picture in a timely manner if it's like just in a sound library, and so, like we trigger the sounds and it's the same thing that people do, you know in the back in the back room during a play, right, you trigger all these sound effects as they go in
real time. So now that's how I do like seventy percent of my fully for everything, and anyway, feature films are a little more creative and full right and extensive, and then animated film you have to sort of do everything, So animated is definitely the hardest, is the final answer to animations.
The hardest. Feature film is the most creative, and the doc is just quite straightforward.
So besides Monster Factory, besides Monster Factory coming out, do you have any other like projects in the works, anything else you want to our listeners should look out for.
I just started working, you know, mostly I do the sound editing, and then every now and then I'm lucky and I do the acting. So the last acting gig I did with Chicago meta year ago. So if they want to see me be hysterical and insist that I'm not crazy in another show, Yeah, that's right, Another dick Wolf.
When you're in the dick Wolf universe, that's always great. They'll bring you back to all the different shows. I'm sure that Order regular is back. I mean there's plenty of places.
Yeah, I've never done a regular Law and Orders bring it on, man.
Yeah.
And then sound wise, I just started work on a Disney series that I probably am not allowed to like be too specific about uh, but I can. I guess I can say. It's about a kid's choir. It's another docu series, and it's like just like, oh my god, I love these kids, and it's it's very again like this just group of people you're totally rooting for. Oh so that's a lovely thing too. Yeah, look out for eventually.
Well, guys, thank you for you.
Oh my gosh, she's great. I love somebody that has two full careers. It's amazing good work.
Yeah, and it's just cool to be to hear someone that the room tone is for them. Yeah, yeah, I do.
I don't even understand what that is like really, I mean, I know, like, okay, we're being quiet for room tone, but I don't really get what they do with it.
Well, she was explained like when they're like when you need it to just be quiet, but you're filming like you're entering the room before dialogue or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we gotta do room town. Yeah, and the smashing. I don't know. I love folly artists so much, but I was you know, I told you about Quentin Tarantino had this editor who passed away. Sally and so I saw that during editing, like there was a whole montage of all the actors from all those movies, like during work
being like Hey, Sally, what's up Sally? And I just hung out with someone that edits movies and like they works for Happy Madison, and they said like people would do that for them, like they would be like hi, because they know who who was editing the movies. And so she said that she keeps them like people saying hi to them, And so now I want to it's
like a little real of it. That's cute. Yeah, So now I like it's cool, like I want to think about who's editing and make a little cute moments because I.
Do remember people are sitting alone in a dark avid for like hours and days and months and you're like Hi, it's me.
Just want to say hi. Because I do remember Michelle at one point being like I like this, take like into her mic or like I pick this, ye, but I like the idea of cute little messages. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So cute. And and Abigail, forever, we will be calling all of our oranges the new black people Pokemon. We will catch them all. And I'm obsessed with that, I'm running with it, I'm picking it out it and I'm running.
Yes, totally. So what have we learned from this episode? I would say that, uh, people at the highest levels of power, judges, politicians are all doing fucked up shit. Basically, they're all at parties where a nun is bartending in a bad wig.
I don't know, it's so small. The nuns are good, like they do good. They're on the boots on the ground, and the nuns are boots on the ground, and then all these fucking losers. I mean, I always say this, I think people that are so into getting power and money or pedophiles or abusers or rapists.
Yeah, because it's not like nuns have like a hierarchy in the same way.
Like I mean, I.
Probably don't know because I don't like I know that there's like a mother superior or whatever from sound of Music is my literal reference point. But like I know that there's probably a head nun or whatever. But it's not like they're trying to move their way up from like a bishop to cardinal to fucking pope or whatever. You know, Like there's not like a power struggle. Nuns are truly just like we want to help people, unless
if you know something different, please let me know. If it turns out nuns have like turned the other cheek about molestation and stuff or have been part of it, please let us know.
But as far as.
I know, like, it feels like it's definite nuns like hit you with the roller. Yes, but that was like that was the way my mom went to Catholic school and it was on the desk. Okay, well, let's this is obviously an amazing more we've learned more.
Well, this is an amazing two parter.
I feel like there's more at the end of the next episode, you know.
And we talked up top a lot about law roach for a wildly so maybe we just move it along. We learned nothing. No, it's a two part episode. Obviously, come back next week because we will.
We're going to get the second half and we have an awesome guest next week too, and then let's get out.
Of this week sadder crime like this is superhero nuns and then next week is not great dead nuns, dead nuts, so sad. But for this week's what would Sister Peg Do?
Which is our weekly segment where we point you guys to organization, blog, podcast, something, Instagram account, something that helps flesh out a little bit more about what we talked about today. We wanted to just point you to the organization that LeadSA talked directly about in the episode, Talitha kOhm, like she mentioned, Talitha Kum is an umbrella network of sister led networks striving to end human trafficking. And they are active on five continents and coordinate the anti traffic
efforts of fifty intercongregational networks. And for more information you can go to Talitha Koom dot info and that's t A l I t h a kum dot info. And I love that they have a little website. I wonder which none is like the the nerdy tech nun anyway, that's.
That they're like Pokemon too. Okay, next week's episode, like we've been hinting at, is Unholiest Alliance, which is season seventeen, episode eighteen. Just the next one. And I'm sure some of you just watch watch Growth because it's hard not to. It is wild sometimes when we do research and then I'll be like I'm just watching this one little part and then I'm like I'm watching it at all, Baby, next week. We'll see you then. Thank you much for listening,
give us a rate review or whatever. Love you guys. Bye. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien.
And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.
Thank you to.
Our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Dun Dun