Mama w/ Kathleen McNenny

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories done Dune Yay.

Another episode of That's Messed Up an SVIE podcast. My name is Lisa and my name is Kara, And on this podcast we talk about an episode of Long Order SVU, talk about the true crime its based on, and we interview a fabulous guest.

And today will be no different. But really quickly, before we dive into our catch up that we do top of show, which some of you love and some of you absolutely hate, we want to just remind.

You that we're going to be on tour this fall.

Beer Beer Beer We're going to be doing our Spooky Season tour. It's mostly you know, West, We're in a West coast cities. We're gonna be in Denver on the sixteenth, Phoenix the seventeenth, San Diego the twentieth, Los Angeles the twenty first, San Francisco the twenty second, and Portland the twenty third. So come see us, guys. We love, absolutely love doing our live shows for you. We're in the process of ordering some very fun tour specific merchant.

Yeah, that we set up. I'm excited.

Yeah and we And I'm on solo tour too, guys.

I'm on. I'm getting the road.

I'm actually just today at it a date, so September twenty seventh and twenty eighth, I'll be at Raley Akaka Baby at the Amber check her out and Carrie.

But I'm doing show Intel shows.

I'm going everywhere Toronto, I think like states I've never been to.

But great. Yeah, So go to that s messed Up live dot com you'll see.

Oh, and I'm gonna do a show in Tell in La Oh in October. I'm just waiting. I think it's like right before we go on tour. I'm doing a show in Tell at the Belly Room. So if you want to watch a grown comedians doing show and tell, I would come to that show.

Oh maybe I can get booked.

So go to thats messed Up live dot com that has all of our tour dates listed, and then below you'll see where it says Lisa's website that takes you to all of Lisa's tour dates as well, so you can see where she's up and at him, and yeah, we do recaps of fun episodes.

They know that reminds me of the Simpsons, What up and Up and Adam. That's like a huge thing in Radioactive Man episode because the line like, well, they're like filming a movie and the line is up and at them, But this Arnold Schwarzenegger type of guy can't say that, so he keeps it up and at them, and we're like, and then they keep going at them and they can't and he just can't. Well, I us say it's one of the most overrated episodes of the series, but I take it back, not that I mean I'm here to

We have had people do this before, which we absolutely love, and we do do like a meet and greet after and I will say that you get more excitement from us if you are dressed up like Rollin's with her outerwear or you're dressed up like that.

But this happened in Raleigh because we told people to wear costumes and only two girls did and they're like, yeah, we thought more people would have done that.

I thought this was all yeah, But I think it's so funny to dress like as like really deep cut people, like dresses like Cynthia Nixon with the pigtails, or like don't just be Benson stable or rawlis.

Whatever you can. You totally can.

But I mean you get extra points if you dress oh my god, like come as Carol Burnett and Matthew Lillard together like a one of you's like got a We need to be front facing.

We need to let people know that they need to do Yes, I want we will in costumes for Halloween shows and we will have prizes ready for you, like yeah, fuck, yes, yeah, we're doing this, and it might be a batch of bracelets from Lisa Trigger.

That might be the prize. We're not sure. But anyway, enough enough selling you on the tour.

I do want to talk about Okay, So my birthday was this past weekend and I booked just a back room for a restaurant, very sex in the city two thousand and four. We walked in and it was like we catapulted back to the early two thousands. Then I did implement a Carry Bradshaw costume contest, and then I quickly canceled it. No one wanted to do it. They were so annoyed. Oh did I already talk about this?

Well, you told me about that you were hoping to do Carrie Bradshaw, but then I had heard you were canceling it, so I wasn't.

No one was happy. The one person that it was easy for Marie. She just did it. But like, and then I also started like buying these weird intricate carry Bradshaw and then I was like, I just want to look cute.

What am I doing? So I do already have a Halloween costume.

I have like a carry bradshaw a Halloween because I ordered all this stuff. I'm wearing a Elizaviet the name plate right now, like I did want to do it, and then I.

Love that you have that. That's really cool.

You know it's gold plated, so hopefully, Like I don't know how gold plated works, Like, well, my next turn green or not?

Like I don't know. I usually buy goal.

I don't know. I actually have no fucking clue. Jewelry is the last thing on my list of things I'm good at.

Oh. But then after dinner, I was like, in my head, I was like bor hop, bar hop, but instead we watched Sex in the City in my apartment till two in the morning. Oh, I mean only the stragglers, but like we never left my apartment again.

It was amazing. It was truly my dream. It was everything I ever wanted.

It was just like everyone's smoking weed in my apartment, watching Sex in the City making jokes, and I was like, wow, look.

At me living.

Because I I haven't been able to host people in years, I would say, like years and years and years. So I was just like so happy to show off all my art. That's been in storage forever and it just felt really it felt really really nice.

That's great. I love it.

I can't wait to be a guest at Chateau trigger Oh.

And I got surprised Friday by a few friends and I did see Ariana Maddix in Chicago on Broadway.

Thank god, you're telling me now that it's a surprise, because when I saw the pictures, I go, how is it possible. I talked to Lisa for hours a week and she did not mention that she was going to see Arianna.

I did. I was surprised. I'm like, this is crazy that she just forgot to mention this.

I didn't know until like six pm, maybe five pms.

Fun because Julia went.

To the tickets booth after work, so like they didn't know if they were going to get it or not. So I guess our friend Lauren was told to entertain me, which is like, well, it's quite easy, I would say, And then so I dollar sellar asked her about the bracelets, like I'm not no, I have come to terms that I only talk about the same five things over and over again, and then that's it, like sorry, there's nothing

And we like headed up town. And I was blown away by her.

She exceeded all of my expectations, like I'm not saying like I was like, oh yeah, give her another part, Like I don't think she would have booked Broadway without what, you know, the fame or whatever. But she exceeded my expectations ten times. Like I don't know if my expectations were too low, but like I was blown away by Arianna, Like I think she did an amazing job.

So she can sing. Yeah, she like sang with everyone.

But and I talked to someone that like loves theater today too, But the rest of the cast dead behind the eyes. I would say, you know some of these people, because I was talking to some of them. It's like some of these people, this is just their desk job, like they've been on this show for fifteen years, and honey, you can tell. But guess who was Mama Morton or Fha it was or Fay yeah, yeah, I know that is exciting. Yeah no, And I mean the they're incredible,

Well a movie.

I I'm a flip because I saw The Broadway with bb Newarth and Anne Ryan King, like it's a.

Set back then, like because.

Someone told me that it switched twenty five years ago and something different, but like there was no set. It's the Symphony orchestra, like not the symphony, like the Chicago Orchestra's up there, and you know it's jazz baby, so like there's people there, but there's no set.

There's not a desk, there's there was a set. There was like a jail there was like, yeah, there was a set. Nothing there's it's very paired down. They had to pare it down so they could afford all the stunt casting that they do.

For that show.

And I love the music, like it's so good and people are talented, but a lot some of them need to like pep up a little. And Arianna was amazing. I teared up outside while we were waiting for her. And there's just like a poster where she's holding it, this says Roxy Rocks, and I started tearing up.

I'm like, I'm just so proud of her, like I can't even believe it.

And she came out to do curtain call and not curtain call, it's called you know, stage door.

Yeah, and we got a nice view of her.

She is really really really tiny, short, short, little yeah beauty, but she looked great in her sweats.

I don't know, it.

Was it felt special and I was really proud of her, and I thought she nailed it.

That's great.

I mean, I just I saw like two legends do that when I was like six, who was I knew? And Anne Ryan King, who was like they're like I I mean I think they maybe originated those I could be totally talking out of my ass, but they like are legend and so like, and this wasn't.

Honestly, I saw this in nineteen ninety six.

Babies, Like, I saw this so long ago that it was like there was definitely still razzle dazzle on the show. But yeah, it's been going for a long time. And uh yeah, I'm sure the cast is like da da da oh yes, so yes, yes, they both like just that's how I felt like some of it was just a little tired, but the people I was with disagreed with me and thought I was being a bitch.

So I don't know.

But she really did amazing Like I thought I would be like ugh, but it wasn't. It was like she really did a good job and it's great. But the movie is just one of the best movie musicals ever made.

It is. It is quite good. I do really like the movie a lot.

I remember it when it came up when I was in high scho It came out when I was in high school, and I think, yeah, I could not stop watching it, and we were a big Catherine Zada Owns household because we loved Zoro.

We like Mask of Zorro as a family. Yeah. Oh interesting, Yeah, I love that. That's it.

I learn something new about the triggers every day. We love Catherine's Zada Jones. In this house, beans never expire and Catherine Zada.

Jones is Queen. Well, I'm seeing them tomorrow. I'm seeing them.

Oh yeah, yeah, I'm going a day early to play some games. But then my friends are coming over and my mom's cooking for them, so I'm really excited.

You're going, and you're going tomorrow in anticipation of are you also performing or is it just the birthday weekend?

No, it's just the fortieth birthday weekend.

Then I got invited to a Bears game and then I fly to LA and then we made up in Well, I'll probably see you in LA. But then Palm Springs is ours. Yeah, it's like all I can think about. It's I can't wait to fucking pack right now, which has never come out of my mouth. But I think it's because I'm not on the road NonStop, like I've never been on the road like this long ever besides COVID of course.

And so yeah, I'm like kind of I'm ex I to fly and pack, pack and fly. Get to that lounge. Baby, you got to reconnect, I know.

I I'm really excited for Palm Springs. You guys are gonna have a lot to hear afterwards. It'll be good because I just want to float in a pool. I just love pools, and I hate in cities. Everything closes early, like Labor Day weekend, that's it, Like that's when the lifeguards pack it up, man, And I'm like, wait, it's eighty degree, Like let me swim, but I missed the beach on Monday because I made bracelets all night, so you know, priorities.

Baby.

Then I slept so four or five pm, so of course that fucks me up, and then I have diet cox too late, and then I didn't sleep again the next night. Well, because I think I told you earlier, but for those who don't know, since our friend is turning forty, I did make him forty friendship bracelets and that took some time.

Well, yeah, because you're using an extremely toxic glue that I really worry about you using in your small apartment, and it takes seventy two hours to dry, and I no doubt you're sitting there breathing it for most of that's seventy two hours, and I'm nervous.

Yeah, I'm gonna get a different glue.

But it's yeah, the colors, I don't know, it's just like it. I love words and I love colors, and that's.

Yeah, that's it.

And you love references and jokes and knowing things about people, and I think that's right.

That's very mother added little layer. Oh, and then I got gifted a gold bracelet that says.

Manya oh that's so lovely. Who gave you that? Julia and Lane? Did? I already scuff it up? Probably?

That's really sweet because you gave me a bracelet that says Rosie and Oscar on it.

So yours is silver? Sorry, yeah, mine's gold. That's okay.

I couldn't afford it. Yeah, it's yeah. Actually that's what I brought you here today to talk about.

Speaking of Rosie, I am taking her to see Beetle Juice Beetle Juice this weekend. I hope that I'm not going to get a lot of judgment until mom's telling me she's too young, but she's begging, she's begging to go. I did arrange for Oscar to go on like basically a date with his old babysitter who's obsessed with him.

And he goes Beetlejuice.

So obviously he's made his feelings known about Beetlejuice, and now he just loves talking about things that are beautiful and things everything that's beautiful.

So, hey, did I mention good Rich on this podcast yet or no? Well by a long time ago when you were shooting it.

Oh yeah, So I am an a Michael Keaton movie and it comes out October eighteenth.

And they didn't cut me out. They didn't cut me out.

I saw a little SNIPPE saw a little snip all right, exciting.

Yeah, I'm on the IMDb baby, so.

Well, beetle Juice, Beetle Juice, I think will be good because it's like Michael Keaton's been kind of laying low for a minute. Now he'll have beetlejuice, beetle juice, and then it'll roll right into the press for good Rich. What's good for the beetle is good for the Liza.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm making up, bicking up platitude.

I just I've been holding onto this photo of me and Michael Keaton for far too long, like I need to put in photos.

We've got to get that out. I gotta get this out.

But it was really cool to spend time with Beetlejuice, and I'm glad I have a really.

State an absolute icon. I mean me and Michael Keaton is a huge part of my life, you know. I'm like, Michael Keaton is my Batman, He's my Beetlejuice.

Like, do you want multiplicity, Well, multiplicity is actually a good one for cine matrix. I'm always putting multiplicity down. I've never seen that one Batman. Oh really, yeah.

Michael, Michael Keaton's is worth it. Michael Keaton's Batman is worth it. It's Jack Nicholson and as a joker. Is Michael Key in the original Batman?

Not original?

I mean original in like the ones that sort of came back in our lifetime. I mean Ray Adam West was Batman back in right the day I'm looking at you. But yes, of modern times, he's the original of the movie Batman. Nicole Kidman is I'm sorry no. Kim Basinger is the love interest. We were a big Kim Basinger household too. We love the real McCoy.

We love I.

Would love Kim Basinger to have like a sort of later in life, like the way Michelle Pfeiffer kind of went away for a bit and then came back, like, let's get Kim Basinger back out there.

Michelle Pfeiffer as her husband's loaded too, so they can yes, like I don't know as Kim. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, why am I nervous about these millionaires? I know, I hope they're doing okay, But you know, Michelle Pfeiffer is part of a power couple. Yes, but you see television. Today's Cinematrix is directors. I'm pissed.

Oh I bombed it, Like immediately I kind of tried to do it and was like, no, I don't.

Did you do good? Casey, did you do good? Top crushed?

I don't even know who Ivan Wrightman is. Honestly well up in the air right, Oh yeah, that's a son.

That's Jason. Oh his son. Oh that's his son. Yeah, of course, Okay. I was like, I didn't make it up. I didn't come out of nowhere.

I'm all right, should we get started with today's episode? Do we have more than we were gonna hold? Mynything? So there was like an annoying drunk woman. It was her birthday. I'm in the front row the cellar, and she was with her mom, so clearly her. You know, not that it's bad to hang out with your mom,

And then she left. That's so funny. I God, that's so funny. Wait.

Also, I just want to say I tried to bring this up with you at another point of something else we were recording. But there are multiple Scott Peterson documentaries out right now and people are giving a lot of opinions.

I saw one of them. I watched part of the Netflix one.

I'm like, one episode left to go, but it made it solidified his guilt for me so hard. And then a comic that we both know came up to me at a show. She was doing my show, and she was like, she was like, Oh, have you been watching the Scott Peterson stuff. I've been dying to talk about it. And I was like, oh, yes. She goes, well, I think he's innocent, and I go, so does Leeza. I don't think he's innocent.

Yeah, you don't anymore, You don't anymore. But I never thought he was innocent.

I don't think the core of if you can't prove how, when and with what right, it's like how when?

Where? Where? Where? When? How?

This comic has done a lot of dives on it, and like has really And she's like, there is like a lot that makes it that it looks like he didn't do it, And I was like.

Okay, So don't understand if someone is as stupid as him to tell the authorities where he was fishing and then that's where he gave the body, that's where he dropped the body. Why would you drop the body in the place where you are and you told people you will be there, but yet there's no other evidence, or maybe these documentaries have new evidence.

I don't know.

I just think if you're dumb enough to do that, you're dumb enough to leave a thumb print somewhere. I just don't. I don't think he's innocent. I think the police did a really bad job. I think the prosecution did good. I mean, he got guilty, but like, you can't sentence someone to death if you can't even tell me how he merged.

Yeah, one of the.

Things she said was that, like someone in his business, do I know them?

Yeah, you do.

One of these people, one of the people in the case on his side, basically heard the cops saying, oh, the husband did this, like at the very beginning of the investigation. So there is a lot of There is a lot of evidence that possibly the police, like you know, like they do a lot of the times, had a narrative and just like found evidence to fit the narrative.

The amber, shit's fucked up.

He did not care she was dead, like he didn't want to be with her, like he was escaping to Mexico.

Like I get it. Yeah, somebody goes.

If you talk about somebody three weeks before they're dead, saying that they're dead and then they die, you probably.

Have That's what I mean. Like, I think you did it, but it's like you need to prove it in court. That's why we have courts, Like that's the whole point. That's what I don't understand. Like, I just don't know how we're okay with it if we can't prove how he did it or with what or where?

Why? Like what?

Yeah, but I think he did it. So he's in jail and that's fine with me. Exactly. I do think he did it.

I think like that was early on in our podcast, and like I will watch these other docs as well.

No, but I was telling you because this girl had like this this that she had like a list, like, I mean, I think there are I don't think it's like absolutely crazy to think he's like because I think there's a lot of there's a lot of proof.

Do you know this murder Wade Wilson. He has like crazy face tattoos.

He is a murderer. But oh no, I've never seen this man and he's I guess.

I saw somewhere online that he gets three thousand letters a week from women that want to fuck or marry him.

Oh my god, And I get it. He is not.

I mean you can tell without he is cute, without the fucking full face tattoos of stitches that are like around his mouth, like that's he's.

No Richard Ramirez.

I'll tell you that. No, Okay, we got to start. This is getting crazy.

Let's get going. We've got a great episode for you guys today. Watch I start writing letters to Wade Wilson.

Okay, we are doing an episode called Mama, which I don't know creeps me out.

Like I I'm with you. I fucking hate the word mama as a mom. I hate it's so pervasive, like every mama, Hi, Mama's how you doing?

Mama? Like I really only like it.

I really only it only doesn't bother me when my kids call me that, And that's really kind of it.

I really don't like it.

Yeah, I was about to say I called my mom mama, but like not a random woman I just met, you know. Yeah, but it also reminds you of something creepy, like was there a horror movie where someone just keeps saying mama or something? Or am I just thinking of baby Mama? Or am I thinking of Ma the movie? Or am I thinking of Helen Keller? Like I don't know.

No, I think there's a horror movie called Mama from twenty thirteen.

Okay, So yes, okay, I knew I was scared for a reason. I was like, this gives me the he be Oh my god, that woman looks insane. Oh, Jessica chastaing, Yeah, shocking. Yeah, And it's presented by Ghia model Toro.

But I don't know what that means.

I guess it's like he just stamps, sure, yeah, he did a favor for friend.

That's what that means. His friend went, listen, will you present my movie? Just present? Yeah? And then yeah he did it. Okay.

Season nineteen, episode twenty two, we have a twenty eighteen vibe. Okay, so we have Benson. She's in glasses, they're pushed down to the middle of her nose. She's on the phone, and you know, we hear her go no, I wasn't aware. But she's not surprised, and then she goes, he certainly deserves it, long overdue. She thanks someone for telling her, and we still don't know what it is. She shakes her head in disbelief, but she just said she's not surprised, confused,

I'm like, like.

Maybe iced tea, But like Finn is trying not to work at all times, he hesitates, he hesitates.

I'll say that he does get the job done, but he hesitates. He's like, oh, I gotta go do that all right before he jogs. He definitely does a big yeah. The only time he didn't hesitate was in the bodega with like the gun situation. I feel like that was a one.

Time hero move, but usually yeah, trying to stay in the office. Sure, but she says, you know, I trust you so much, and I'm like, well, that's real, you know what I mean, Like, I do trust him. But she goes, and now you're a sergeant, so he's sergeant Tutuola. And he goes, Okay, I didn't want to make it a big thing. And you know that obviously reminds you of one stabler said, I heard I heard yours no big thang. So he didn't want to make a big deal about the promotion. And she is happy for him,

I kind of do.

I kind of think that they're doing it to like sort of like like just bring like some personal connection to like having to put your loved ones into like homes and like places where they're.

Being taken care of. I kind of think that's why they do it.

But you're right, like some follow up would be good, like maybe Stone being like yeah, I get it, you know, like, but I don't think that ever happens.

And it's just like, you know, how much work it took to shoot this one. I know they're like okay, but we're at a different location. We're not in baby. We're at Ascano Gardens and it is an old folks home and it's in the sky, okay, an amazing view. And a crooner type of man is singing to the elderly. He's in a suit. They're loving it, especially Fanula. How do you say her name?

Fanlula?

Fanula? I was right, Okay, so Fanula Flanagan and no, Google, I don't mean Fibula, you dumb bitch.

So I had a babysitter named Fanula, That's how I know.

And she's a legend, no stranger to SBU. She was in the season five episode called Escape. She's from Dublin. She's been working since the fucking sixties.

Okay.

She gets offered a Marzapan cookie by a worker and who's being very nice, chill, but this freaks her out. She's taken away screaming. She starts breathing heavily, wildly, but then she stops and again and the singer and she's clapping. She's back in. She knows the words to the song. He kneels down next to her. She's giggling and she wants to fuck this dude. And she's now walking post show singing, and the same cookie woman gives her meds. So I guess the nurse does cookies and meds, and

And she's like, whoa are you? Surely I don't know what day is it.

And then she talks about Marzapan cookies again, and then she gets serious and says I was raped, and then she downs her pills and she looks, you know, I wouldn't say deranged, but there's a daze. Yeah a day, something's going on. And we get to the credits. Now, how do you feel about Marzapan cookies? I think they're weird, right, I don't think I've ever had one. They're weird, It's true, I mean, I'm sure. Or is it like the pink cream that I do love in a box of chocolates?

I know, I'm like, what's a Marzapan cookie taste? It look like fruits. It also doesn't look like a casual cookie.

Oh yeah, it's like olmend y. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think that's for me.

No, I don't either.

Something on the internet says what is Marzapan called an America? And it says Olmond candy dough. I'm like, no, I think we're just calling out Marzapan.

Sorry, Google.

So classic beginning of an SVU post credits a walk and talk, and this time it's with Rollins and creasy and a man from the home. He talks about you know, Fanula. And her name is Madeline Thomas. She's eighty two and she has mid stage Alzheimer's. Now, the way I spilled Alzheimer's on Google, you'd think I have Alzheimer's.

Do you want to talk about it? There's an X in it. I'll just tell people.

There's an X. There's an X in Alzheimer.

Google just didn't have a suggestion, and I was like, whatever, I know what it is. I bring out Moving on. So she likes to blend fiction, not likes, but she's doing it. She blends fiction and reality, like she watched a show with a ghost and then she was convinced that she had a ghost, but he would rather be safe than sorry and not assume that the rape isn't real. So we have a good guy so that he did

And she's here again.

And what are they chatting about before the detectives walk in, Yes, you Guessedd, it is Marzapan cookies. If you want to do a drinking game, I would drink every time we talk about these cookies.

So when they.

Tell her her that a nurse said that she was raped, she's shocked. She's like, wait what, And the daughters, you know, is encouraging her to talk about what's going on, and she goes, oh, Frankie, he came to my party. So we find out those crooners a Frank Sinatra impersonator. She sings a little bit and then the daughter's like, tell them what you told me that he came into your room and pushed your shoulders down. She gets triggered, and Mattie's like, oh god, it was horrible, horrible he held

So his medical.

Opinion is that it's all in her head, and Chrisy goes okay, but we're still going to investigate. Rollin's and the daughter, Christina are in the waiting room of the hospital and Christine is spiraling, oh god, I should have caught the sooner. I shouldn't have put her in a facility. It is the best facility, and Rollins is like, do not worry. You are a good daughter. Don't question it. We find out, well, she uses the word shoved her mom in. But then you find out it's eighteen thousand

No, no, it's don't get closer to two hundred.

Right math? Right, well you're doing math, Yeah, two hundred and sixteen thousand dollars a year. She called it a garbage heap. So do they come from big wealth?

Like? What the fuck is going on here? Did she marry?

Well? They look like because usually when you see a rich person on SVU, there's tail, you know, there's a pearl's, there's a rich way to speak, like, there's just something and I love her bag, yeah, and here I don't see it. But also, this isn't a lot of money for her garbage. It's a garbageep. But Ronin's like, well, you don't even know how to handle someone with dementia. She's crying. I could have hired someone, And you're right.

Yes, yes, for half A nurse.

Can live in your home and be a full time caretaker for that money.

So you're right.

You are a bad, dumb bitch and you should have let or your mom know. I it's nice to be social with other people your age, I'm sure. But she has a good daughter, I don't know whatever. So she's just just crying.

She's just upset.

Her mom got to tell, you know, like it's normal. So Rollin's again. Rollin's also is like, bitch, stop making this about you. Benson walks in trench coat in the air. She looks majestic and the doctor. You know, because we love Suu. Obviously a lot of people listen to this podcast. We all love Marishka. We've seen the stories, but like seeing Marishka at the Olympics was such a cool like you just see how much she means to everyone.

Yeah, like those girls are young and they're like, oh my god, you know, yeah, talking about the Olympians, the girls, the chast six girls that got to see her and were like gagged, but everyone being.

Like she's there to get the rapist. Volleyball player. Yes, every yeah, another rapist.

Out and about, but like and I mean Taylor loves her, Like we know everyone loves her, but I just love seeing it in action, just her getting her flowers. The doctor comes out and she's like, she's confused, She's not raped. Christine of course exclaims, thank god. Christine runs to her mom. The doc is talking to our girls, and she has no physical evidence to suggest that she was raped. No shoulder or thigh bruises, no semen trauma like vaginal trauma.

And then he's like, I also don't.

I don't get why a hottie like us in a joint like this, And she's like trying to get you to answer a question. So he says he saw, he sang some songs, he had a tuna on Rye and then when she's like and he goes, that is sick. These are my people. If I did anything like that, I couldn't pay my rent. And I do love the logical defense for right, like where it's like why would I do this?

I have a great job, and it's like why anyone rapes? Yeah?

Really yeah, they give up a lot, they go, they're free to Like I like that. It's like I wouldn't. I wouldn't fuck with my job, and it's like most people do. I am very confused. So Cariesie interrupts and cuts him loose, so no tape or physical evidence.

Finn walks in.

They give him some jokes about leaving and how secretive he's being, and it's really hard to do these episodes and take any of these side plots seriously because we know Finn doesn't go anywhere like you know what.

I mean, And I'm sorry.

Even if you are someone that doesn't watch and are listening, you clearly know Finn is still on the show. So we have to pretend he's leaving departments for his big Sergeant's moment and he doesn't want to party, but everyone wants a party, and Rollins goes, Babe, you're getting promoted, not arrested. So Christine runs in. She needs to speak to Rollins at once and did you did you? Did you get any Goldiehn from death becomes her when I just said that in terms of tone at once, yeah,

Are you a fucking idiot?

I know, Wait, you're not talking about Maxwell? Are you so fucking crazy? So so, anyways, we find out it's Professor Leonard Maxwell. He came every day after his classes and he would read a book with a cappuccino and a cookie for hours. And yep, you guessed it. It's a Marzapan cookie.

Oh my god, you're you're all wasted by now if you are playing the Marzapan drinking game, because it's insane how much they talk about it.

They're talking about Marzapan cookie is like everyone orders it and they're so common that they're going to be all over the place, Like I truly, I just it's unbelievable to me.

If you're a Marzapan person, please hit us up.

Because I am shocked, Like, is anyone going to Trader Joe's and buying Marzapan cookies? Are you going to a bakery on a Saturday going Yes, they have Marzapan Like, I need to know what is happening here.

I also do think it sounds kind of like not to be ageis just like an older person cookie, like maybe a cookie that was a big deal, like for another generation. They're definitely not out and about my family functions.

I know, but I so are a butterscotch But I see butterscotch around Yah.

Yeah, a Werther's. I fucking love a Werthers.

By the way, Oh my god, remember our friend was obsessed with those butter scotch Boudinos at that restaurant or was it you?

Are you the friend?

Well, no, it is our friend, but I brought them to her house for her birthday this year. But also it is one of the only desserts Jared and I like to share because we're not dessert fronds.

Jared and I are dessert enemies.

We like completely different desserts, except Boudinos is where our ven diagram matches up.

Oh but to the sun.

We're back at the bakery but one day he just stopped coming in, so uh oh was at the rape day. So we find him reading a magazine on a bench on the water. It's a romantic chili sunny day in New York City and they ask him about Madeline Thomas. And this man is named hel Lindon, who is most recently in Hack.

So that's exciting.

He's out there, he's working and he came out on the scene in one hundred and seventy one episodes of Barney Miller, so that's like his big claim to fame. He's stunned to even hear the name. He's stammering, he hasn't heard that name in years. Did something happen to her? They reveal the rape, his jaws on the floor. He's so upset. So we're at the cement room bars. He said he was teaching engineering at Hudson Dundune. He's in

Well, I mean that was fifty years ago.

And he's like, so it was February thirteenth, Well, because it was before Valentine's Day, Okay, like kind of the year is. But you know, but I always think about like Bowen and Matt when I listen to their podcast, they just know, like the year's songs came out, the years something happened.

They like correlate things. I don't.

It's like, oh, I was in this grade, or I at this time, or I was younger, Like I'm not really into years like this.

So maybe you know he's an engineering guy. He's a numbers guy.

So Mattie was working late getting ready for Cupid's Day, as she calls it.

He had an evening seminar, so they were there late.

They had a cappuccino together and Rollins goes, and you've raped her. He smiles and goes, no, we made love in the kitchen. But Mattie felt so guilty and said they should never see each other again. And he's a real respectful king, and he never saw her again. Rollins asks to get him a water coffee and he just wants to sittle a minute. He takes off his glasses, hands in his head and like kind of just sits.

Well I think I missed an element.

But the guy goes, ah, you know, my grandson he's has to get it together to date you, Like, he's a mess. So it's like, clearly not this man in a tie. That's like, here's to defend his grandfather. So the other one's a loser, okay. So they bring in Maddie and that's the one he wanted to say. They bring Maddie in with Christine. She's out of it, she's loopy, she doesn't understand anything, but she does then see Max a little bit, but she goes, they're so old, and

Very much, and yeah, I don't get it.

But Maddie looks and focuses with sadness in her eyes, and she's just sad. Christine's distressed and the lawyer has to go nothing ready, so we're about to have one of her favorites a crossover in the precinct. So they meet in the middle and he yells out for Maddie and introduces himself as Leonard, but she doesn't know or remember him, and it's like, someone tell him she has Alice Hollimer's. He's heartbroken, so Rollin's and Finn have some

So she talks.

She was in her chair, she likes to look outside, and it's like, oh my god, like you're living like a cat, you know. He picked her up and put her on the bed and said he wanted to massage her feet, and she did feel grateful for that. But then he said that he loved her and he wanted her to love him back, and she became a little petrified and she's like, I can't love you the way you want me to.

He did get mad.

He told her to be quiet and she would like it and love him, and then he fucking rubbed coconut oil on the back of her legs undressed her and got on top and like raped her. She's crying and he kept repeating I love you, and he wanted her to say it back, but she did not want to say it, and Rollin says, she's so sorry it happened. She's safe now and she's just crying, and like you know, she goes, it'll never be okay. She married Ben at eighteen.

And yeah, it's just sad, it's fucking sad.

But she at least truly surviving is like the only objective, not like getting DNA. I mean, hey, if you could do that, bonus points, but it's not. You know, we do love when somebody gets a good scratch or a piece of hair, but that's not the objective.

Surviving is no. And but what is good about all this? She knows who this is. His name is Dan. He's new there, so it's Daniel Hammerson three three one Jane Street in the village.

He was only there for two weeks.

He's a tempt So they're going to take Patrice to the hospital for an exam, and on the way out, though of the like convalescent home, rollins goes no one has even visited her and it just discussed them and it's just like a really sad thing to think about. But also, you did clock that Jane Street is a really nice street for a nurse's aid.

I mean, I was like, oh, he lives on Jane Street. Interesting, let's go see where. Let's go check it out. It's like a really nice street. That is a really nice street.

I just feel really bad for Patrece, like she's such a good actress.

It really was heartbreaking, so heartbreaking. It's so tip difficult, like the whole thing.

It stresses me out, like taking care of our parents as they get older and like.

You know, there's just no good options. It feels like not to get on my child free soapbox.

But you know, it's like when people are like, who's going to take care of you when you're old, It's like.

Half the time it's not your kids.

Yeah, like you may it's people suck, Like I don't know, it's that can't be your plan.

I know we all want these great kids.

But then I also my friend posted this, but you know with jd Vance and all this stuff about like parents, parents' parents, and she looks up like numbers and the number one group of people that abuses children is drum roll parents. Seventy six percent of crimes committed against children are their parents.

But they'd like to like they'd like to people would like like Jdvance would like to focus on the boogeymen that are out there, you know, hurting kids and stuff, and not the fact that where it actually comes from.

So when they visit this Jane Street apartment, this is probably one of my favorite scenes of SPU history.

I am obsessed.

So there's a we're at a sass the older woman's house looking for Dan and she's like, oh, you want to see my husband, and she leads them to an urn and she goes, he's dead. You can ask him anything you want, Like I just fow. But he was in a facility in Hell's kitchen. So now Rollins is filling Olivia in on what's up, and so we figure out this guy just moves from place to place. He's worked at all the places that have been mentioned. He's been a nurse, an orderly, a chef, and a rapist.

Well, so it is as Sconso Gardens, but it does sound like Disconso Gardens, which is a place in la that I take my children to all the time, they just drop the d it's as sconceo.

Maybe, yeah, have you gone this summer? Do you mostly go in the fall winter? I let the membership lapse, but we're planning.

I'm planning with our friends to go to Carved, the pumpkin carving thing that they do.

Well, you'll probably go to Christmas too, Yeah, yeah, but I love my membership laps because it's just hot as hell and we just go swimming instead.

So yeah, we're at we're at the gardens.

We're talking to the chef and he's wearing a big giant chef hat, like so big. He looks like the Little Mermaid chef, like comical, like he could be in the Ratitude kitchen. But Dan didn't cook. He delivered the food, so obviously a nightmare. And he delivered a snack before big time, a bedtime big time.

He's a snack before bedtime. He delivered not a.

Big talker, but whistling, humming old show tunes, old timey stuff.

He goes, you know, not Hamilton's.

He then name drops and says he loved Trudy Morris's songs, and he said that he knew her so we would always talk about this woman Trudy Morris and how he's a big fan. So we go to this house of this woman old starlet and the actresses. An Archer another legend nominated for an Oscar Golden Globe and BAFTA for being Michael Douglas's wife in Fatal Attraction.

So I've never seen that, did you. I've never seen Fatal Attraction? But some bad news about An Archer? What scientologist? Oh, okay, that's for our show. That's like the thing you can be.

I don't know.

Nothing, nothing, nothing too svwish, but scient a long time long time scientologists.

So she's a scientologist. So you knew about her before, right? I knew who Ann Archer was and I was like, what is There's something about her? And then I just watching this episode, I gave her a quick Google and remember that. Yeah, she's like long time person in the scientology world. Sam and her recent credits. She was just in the dropout with Amanda Seifree and she played Sam Waterson's wife in it.

So that's pretty cool. Oh did I tell you? I watched Cereal Mom for the first time. Ah, I loved it. I think I did tell you? Did I not tell you.

It feels like you didn't tell me Pussy Willow's Dottie. I'm obsessed. I gotta watch it again because I really really liked it. But Sam Waterson being in a movie was like really shocking to me too.

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

And uh friend of the pod Matthew Lillard, Matthew Lillard who just hung out with him at gen Con this past weekend. Oh my god, here's the sun. Yeah that was a cool day. I mean, we have the best, the best podcast ever, Like it's so fun. Okay, So but this woman, oh classic, she's holding a really fluffy white dog and she's like, I don't have time. I'm busy, and it's like, there's no way you're busy, bitch, There's no way. And she was just because she goes, I was just about to have a glass of pino.

So not that not that busy.

Yeah, you've interrupted me in the middle of my pino. It's really not a good time. That's merch. You've interrupted me in the middle of my pino. Let me know if you guys want me to make friendship bracelest for the community. So they asked this rich lady about you know, oh do you know this guy. He says he's your friend and she laughs and she's like, Aha, that's not my friend, that's my son, Henry.

Oh.

And they show her a photo of the man and she like hates the photo. She goes, unfortunate, you caught his bad side. And she has a lot of photos of her self framed everywhere, like no one else just frame pictures of her. But the place is sick, dude, like chandelier, gold everywhere, a piano, it's giant. And she's talking about her career and doing Shakespeare in the park and they're like, okay, we actually are busy, so we

Have a drink?

The door opens and like everyone said, he is whistling and he just came back from a dry cleaning run and lets her know the green dress won't be ready today, and she scoffs, like I need it today and she says, ugh, he's just like his father, and he says, well, you don't have any plans for today unless there's something you're not keep telling me. So they're creepy, but he is super nice to company and they arrest him. They're like, okay, you're arrested. He yelps, and the mom yells, oh my god,

She goes, yeah, you're invisible.

He goes, excuse me, and they're like, well, you had fake names, and she goes, you know, you used one of your dead patients' names. And he's like, oh, that's because of my mother's career, and Ronin's like, she's retten. He goes, you clearly don't understand the effect celebrity has on regular people.

And he used his real name.

It's NonStop questions about my mom and they're like, uh, don't you use your dad's name. He goes, there's something called Google. You should try it. Careesy sass is m right back and goes, yeah, people are googling you, and Caresee goes, oh no, or maybe it's because you like to rape old ladies and he says that's a lie, and Robin slowly walks towards him and says, hmm, strange. Most people when they hear that would say that's sick

He calls his mom a good mother.

They're very close and then he goes, Simpocado, what is that, Potico?

Yeah, tell us about that.

Simpotico is like, we're good, We're we vibe, we're simpatico. Like I think it's like I mean, in Spanish or other languages.

Oh I thought it was Italian too. So he says we have similar attention spans. So we want to know about Patrice Connolly, you know, And he says she was nice, but you know, she had problems with her feet, so I massage them.

Rollins goes, yeah, you did more than that, and he giggles.

And he's creepy as fuck, so creepy, and his name is Todd Alan Crane and he looks really creepy in his regular photos too, So sorry to that man, you are a freak.

And he's like.

Like this man like all his head shots are insane, like creepy, creepy. But he's like, nah, man, maybe she's living out some weirdo sexual fantasy.

And he's like, old women are attracted to me. It's just my it's but it's just not my thing.

Then they drop a bomb on him and they're like, well, you know, we're gonna get the rape kit from back from the lab and he goes, oh, okay, I'll wait for my lawyer then. So they leave and Finn's at the bar. God, it seems like he's drinking a screwdriver, which is disgusting. Benson walks in her hair, you know, swaying in the wind. She calls him sarge, and he's like,

Got to be away.

She goes, we shove them away and give them coloring books. The least we can do is keep predators out of their beds. That's like a good line. And he agrees to the case and just hopes that the judge loves his mother. So we're in chambers and it's Judge Lisa Peck and we go back and forth. Is she a credible or not credible witness? You know. Maddie Stone goes, just because she's ill doesn't mean she shouldn't have rights that everyone else has. The judge starts chatting with her.

So that really fucking sucks. We have to get this guy. He's a predator.

And so we meet the daughter in Benson in the marble hallway and the daughter goes, fuck, that's it, and Christina and her mother walk away. Benson and Stone are like, God, what are we gonna do? And then Stone sneaky, sneaky, He's like, you know, his mom's name didn't really get a crowd or any pressed here. It's kind of weird. No one's clamoring for scoop. It seems like something the newspapers would like. And so Benson dads and bam, it's in the paper Broadways bad seed, and they were right,

He was like, your skin is so soft after a bath. So yeah, it's giving peak, it's giving a revisit of peak.

It's giving like except the mom's not doing anything, but like, it's giving the disgusting Margot Kidder and Chadlow relationship.

It's also giving me a little bit of mother's juice, you know, but chugging his opera mom's butt, Like that's you know, it's weird. Yeah, so that's our first episode. If you haven't listened, give it a listen.

Whatever.

The guy's sweating, the mom goes you, and he's sweating, I loved you, mother.

Why couldn't you love me back just a little? So he's crying.

He gets cuffed and she just snuggles with her dog, and so Benson's talking to Christine and she goes he's going to jail for a really long time. And then Mattie gives her a necklace and says, I love you, and Benson doesn't want to take it, but Mattie's like,

I need this.

I need my DD five because that's how HR works. HR is like, you don't like a job, You're back two days wow, because she goes, do I even want to know how you pulled this off? And he goes no, So I bet he like pull the bribe a secret or whatever. Yeah, so she wants paperwork. They smile, and this episode actually ends on like Finn's beautifully you know, smiling face and he's really happy to be a cop. Yeah, because he the whole time on the show. What season

I'm going. I'm going. I'm going. He never goes.

No, he don't go nowhere. All right, let's get into the crimes. I'm sad, I don't want to, but we're gonna do it.

The first thing that this was apparently based on was the crimes that happened at the Eagle Crest Nursing Home, which is in Carmichael, California. This is a nursing home, it's a larger facility. They had been long subject to scrutiny by the government for quality of care issues. They were on the federal government's Consumer Bewareless so doesn't sound

The woman thought she was engaging in.

Intimacy with her husband, who had passed, and the man, who did not suffer from any cognitive issues, said she took off her clothes and called him darling, and so he was excited.

He thought he had consent. He was like, let's go, you know.

So it's a kind of a murky area because this man thought he was receiving consent, but obviously your condition, but you just you oh, it was a resident, yeah, another resident, another resident in this case. So I think this is a little bit maybe where the max part or not really because that was when they were younger.

Really reported on this at all?

She said, consent is a very tricky thing when you're talking about dementia, and when someone loses that ability to give consent. It's always it isn't always clear. It's very gray. So California does not have a law that determines if

That all makes sense, but this man, I don't know. He thought he was getting consent.

She goes on to explain that this kind of assault is rampant in elder care facilities, especially because people with dementia can have lowered inhibitions and they can behave in sexually explicit ways, and these places don't really train their staff enough to deal with this issue and it's mostly

They didn't seem like they were doing a great job.

But this is a real case that I want to get into because this was not even listed anywhere as what this is based on, but it must be. This Eagle Crest thing happened in twenty seventeen, and this article in CNN came out in twenty seventeen. And this is all the year before this episode was aired, and so right before this episode was you know, being written in stuff.

We know a comic with that name, so that's why we That's why I didn Yeah.

Lasts Luis Gomez a Guatemalan. Guatemalan man who had moved to Waynesville, North Carolina. It's like in the Smoky Mountains in the late nineties. He really spoke no English, so he learned English. The got certified to be a nursing assistant and started working with the elderly in two thousand. Allegedly, he was known to go the extra mile for patients, get to know them, get to know their families. According to the article, he was quote especially charming with female residents.

I don't think you need to go that far.

In February of twenty sixteen, several residents at the Brian Center Health and Rehabilitation Center in Waynesville reported that Gomez had assaulted them, always when their roommates were out. One victim said she was terrified to ever wring the call button when Gomez was on shift.

She was like, I would not ring my bell no matter what I needed.

Victims, as well as another nurse, reported some of these assaults to the head of nursing, Gail Robertson, who always said I'll take care of it. I'll take care of it. And then this one whistleblower nurse was like, didn't You're not taking care of it. She noticed after she reported one of the rapes that she didn't call the authorities. She didn't call a doctor to do a kit, nothing,

He's a sick buck.

So when Waynesville PD starts investigating, another officer remembered, Oh, yeah, I remember six months back. I transported this other woman from Brian to a psychiatric facility in at the end of twenty sixteen, and she was so excited to get out of Brian because she said an employee there had been raping her. Good job, good job following up, buddy, good job. Like he just was like, oh yeah, I remember that she said that, and I'm a police officer,

He set it up that way.

It's also extremely difficult to substantiate claims in these homes, like and the state only flag substantiated claims, and that's nationwide. So it's like, I don't even know how it works in law enforcement, but doesn't it. I feel like sometimes it's like, oh, they were under investigation for that but cleared. Oh they were under investigation for that, but cleared that at least if you showed that on someone's thing, he

With a K and a P.

So George Kupingba was an aid in Minnesota who worked for eight years at an elder care facility despite numerous investigations there but nothing ever went through until finally a nurse walked in on him raping a patient, and then he was finally got eight years in jail. A guy named Joel Maldonado was working in Port Orange, Florida, was accused of assaulting three residents, including a one hundred year

No.

I remember we had a rich kid in my grade and I was talking to an adult.

I don't even remember what, but the adult was like, oh, you know his dad made money in nursing homes. That's like they're known to be evil, you know, because even though the good ones are just so expensive and gouge out, and still they don't want all this try. I mean, there's just been so many episodes on SVU T who about these homes. But like, I know, it's not an

It's hard to find staff that want.

To want you know what I mean, And like, yes, what if you want someone who's like helping you do the like you do you want to keep your patients safe. Yeah, yeah, it's so especially because one of these accusations, these centers get either shut down or they voluntarily shut down. It's like, it's not good for your business to have this happen. But I guess they think most of the time, it

Thank god.

She's like the opposite of the guy in the SVU episode who's like offers all the footage and everything. She's like, I'll take care of it, and then does nothing and her boss left. So and then Gomez was arrested in March of twenty sixteen, a month after the investigation began, which is pretty speedy, I would say. A grand jury indicted him on two council of forcible rape and sexual activity by a custodian. CNN went to tat him in jail a charge. Yeah, it's probably a harsher charge than

But I don't know. It might be a harsher I don't know.

But CNN went to talk to Gomez while he was in jail awaiting trial, and he said he had a really difficult job and that he'd done nothing wrong. He said, I've done nothing wrong. I regret nothing, but was also maintaining his innocence the whole time. After a week long trial, he was found guilty of raping two Bryan Center residence and convicted on six counts that included forceale rape with a physically helpless victim.

I guess that's also a charge. I don't know. He was sentenced to at least twenty three years in prison. Yeah, so fucked up dude though too.

There's like stuff in the articles about him, like, you know, being violent with his wife too, and he just seemed like he was always cheating, Like he just seemed like a ill person.

But reminds me of Jimmy several you know rating Yeah, kids in the hospitals just so, or even the movie Kill Bill.

It's like it's tough, the coma pace.

It's I am glad that there's like reporting on it and that SPU does episodes about it and stuff too, because I do like hope that it gives some parents and administrators and stuff like that, like a pause where they're like, Okay, maybe they are telling the truth about this. Maybe this isn't just like just because they were rambling on about confusing you with somebody that is dead a minute ago, doesn't mean, they're not telling the truth about something like this.

So I just yeah, And that's why I liked in the episode where the dude goes I'd rather be safe than sorry, because it's like this bitch wasn't She's like, ah, I will do. I mean, I can't name what, but someone just told me about getting rapes on set of something, and then God and the network told them not to, like, the network set them down.

I was like, you better not say anything, Jesus, that's fucking terrible.

Yeah, because I was talking about a show I liked and then someone told me, oh my god, oh my god. So yeah, a lot of the times when it's like, oh, why didn't you speak up, it's like people do. People try to speak up and they're shut down by people that are like, well it's too much paperwork.

I don't know, does it really matter?

Like yeah, yeah, it's like all right, see, well we have a great guest, so thank god that's sad.

Let's cleanse the pallet with a lovely chat with our guests. Don't go anywhere. Today's guest is a Dick Wolf Universe icon. She's been on several iterations of Law and Order, including three episodes of SVU and Chicago Justice. She's been featured in other huge shows like Blacklist, Elementary, and House of Cards.

Plus she's a teacher at Juilliard.

You guys, come on, but you know her today as sad daughter Christine Ritchie, and you probably also know her as Eyebrows, as Lisa likes to call her from the episode Bombshell. But please enjoy our conversation with the very talented Kathleen mcneney. Okay, this is amazing that we're talking

Is that the one where I stab him in the penis? Yes? Yes, yes, you guys are swingers. You guys are cool, you're in the lifestyle.

These stories they come up with are fantastic, aren't they? And then they I ran pulled from the headlines. You're like, OK, yes, yes, I mean this one is like so.

Sad and like Harry, but like beautiful acting from you and from Finula your mother, Like how was working with her? She's like a legendary legend.

Well, I'll tell you.

What was interesting is that during lunch you want to sit at the table with Finula and how Helenda's also yeah, and the two of them, you're just kind of like because they tell these amazing stories because their careers are so epic, and so they have hilarious stories, and they knew each other.

I can't remember what, but their lives kind of kind.

Of overlapped in places, so they would share stories about, you know, various people that they knew, right, just kind of like it was like incredible to be a fly on the wall when you have these two incredible legendary actors around.

It's extraordinary. Yeah, so so awesome.

And I know you've done two Law and Order original recipes as I like to call them, Uh, you've done two criminal intents and then you've done three s views. Do you have a I mean, I'm I'm sure you're considering present company. Do you have a favorite set that.

You like to be on. Well, I also did a Chicago Justice and all of them are Wolf productions.

Yeah, yeah, so when you are it's funny because they do, ever so slightly feel like you are in the same world in all of them. So it's not like you necessarily they're run really well, they're tight ships, they're really I know everyone says well oiled machines, but they are They're very right, so everyone knows what they're doing. The SBU, in particular, what I love about it this last This Mama one that I was on. You know, now you've

Might be, and they are not. That's what we hear. That's what they are not.

I just don't understand how like great it is that they came in it still feels fresh and alive, and they're excited to see you and play with you and laugh with you and yeah, take a selfie with you.

I'm like, who wants to do that?

But they do.

They're great.

They could be still on in season about to be season twenty six if they weren't having fun, right like, I think they've yeah, probably part of it.

Yeah, yeah, And I think you know Mura kind she kind of like because she you know that last one, she's the big cheese, she's number one, so you you know, you know her the way her dressing room and her kids and her family and and her activism.

I mean she gave us all shirts for her organization and and I just like she just kind of she's just kind of. Yes, there's an ease to it.

You don't feel like she's floating somewhere in another dimension that you're not allowed to step into, right, which is again just refreshing, because you would think you would get tired, really tired of it, because I've been on sets where that does happen, and that's just not the case.

It's lovely really, or the number one is just like a grump or something or not a not as what we hear a sweet person that she is.

But what are you going to say?

I was going to say, without naming names, Can you tell us kind of like an opposite experience that you have that sticks out in your mind?

Oh yeah, do not ask me to name nates, but I would tell you. I will tell you that I was once on a set where I got embarrassed to be an actor because the regulars were so poorly behaved.

Oh my god.

They were back talking to the director, they were not being generous with coverage, they were leaving and leading people hanging. And I remember sitting there going, oh, this is what gives actors bad names. And it was really embarrassing. Frankly, Yeah, so I mean that can happen. Yeah, Yeah, we've just really really poor behaved and sad.

I find it sad.

Yeah, because it's a privilege what we get to do, a real privilege. And then you've got those amazing crews that are just working twice as hard as you are, coming in.

Earlier, leaving later.

You know there for every shot, they don't get to go back to their drailer and take a rest and whatnot. I mean, it's just totally different. And then it's I find it disrespectful for them as well.

You know, yeah, I always think about the guy having to hold the boom. I don't know how that seems amazing. Arms. You're right, we're gonna ask, oh my god, I.

Can't hold my phone in bed for more than five minutes without my hand falling asleep. You know, I think boom operators off the table for me. Well, so you were also in an episode. Okay, so you've been on three like pretty iconic a s few episodes. You've been on the episode Conscience in season six where you like Kyle McLaughlin's wife and the unfortunately the mother who's had her child killed by a psychopathic other.

Child, and it seems like your husband kind of pills you up.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's uh, I had it seems to me, kin they're going to blend together.

But I've done more than one where something happens to my kid.

Yeah, Like there's a period of time where like, you know, my children are like you know, and I remember playing at the same time, I went through this little period where I also on stage.

I'm like, okay, enough with the dead kids. Yeah, I can't do this anymore, you know. And I also had a child time, so it was like all like yeah, like I don't mean more dead kids.

Yeah, yeah, but you did an episode season six, and you did Season twelve was Bombshell, and then season nineteen is Mama. So technically, if you're going by the numbers, you really do to come back now, you really do for season twenty six. Like, if you're going to be coming back every six or seven.

Season, who would you want to come back as without a dead child? A child of a dead mom.

You've been swinging my wife, who's who stabs her husband in the private parts?

And you've been daughter of a victim? So now what's number four? Oh I don't know the judge? Well, good, But then they'll bring you back, they'll bring you back, that's right. I want to be a recurring judge. Everyone wants to be a recurring judge. Yeah, but I could see you playing like a secret bad guy or.

Something like a like a laced up mom. But then you have like a secret crazy side or something playing the bad guy yeah, the bad guy is fun to play, but it is. It is funny because all of us like, what is the clock? What is the period of time? How long can you wait?

And I think there is some sort of rule. I don't know what you say.

So one of our first guests was the guests, Oh my god, now I'm blanking on his last name O'Keefe, Michael O'Keefe, Michael O'Keeffe. And he was like, they used to put me on like every season at the beginning, and then they made a rule that was like it's got to be X amount of years or whatever. But I think it's like five years, and you've got pretty much five or six between each of these appearances, so I think it's time for another one.

Coming up from your lips to God's ear, I would be lovely well also.

Not a dead kid, but I was obsessed with you and the daughter in Bombshell. You guys did look related, and you made the same facial expressions and your I always comment your eyebrows were like very similar.

It was fun. Do you have any memories with that girl? Yes? Now remember you know what I remember. Okay, please do not mix on me for this, but you know what.

The first thing that pops into my head is the pair of incredible jeans that they put me in.

Oh, I had never been in the para genes.

That cost that much money. And I went, iuldn't even pa because I've never spent that kind of money for a pair of jeans.

And then they.

Was it free fly, free fly maybe okay. I just remember going, I have to write this down. And then I looked it up how much they were.

I was like, I will never be able to That was the golden age though, around when Bombshell came out, I would say that was the golden age of designer jeans. Like that was when it was like seven for all mankind, citizens of humanity, like I was.

That's what it was.

It was like on eBay bidding for designer jeans because I couldn't afford them new I mean like we were in a time.

That was a time they time and done them And now I'm remembering now it all comes flooding back.

For some reason, them putting me in those jeans. I was like, I never looked as good into para jeans. How can the parent jeans do this?

I was shore. I was shocked, I'm like, well, maybe, yes I did, and they told me no. But I went home and I looked it up.

Beause I thought, I'm gonna just buy myself a pair of these jeans, and then I looked at how much they.

Were, and I was like, oh, gosh, those are expansive. But yes, that girl was lovely. She was lovely. So I know you went to Juilliard. I did. And do you teach at Juilliard now? And I do teach at Juilliard? Oh my god. Cool?

Oh ever, well, I actually when I graduated from school, about three or four years after I graduate, now this is in the olden times, there was no class that had anything to do with the business. And I like, you know, I came to New York City from Montana, and I'm like, oh, when we talk about I do my four years at Juilliard, and then I'm really easton to an industry.

That I don't have any idea what I'm doing. I have no idea what's going on.

And I thought, you know, I think there's a better way to make that transition. And there were no was a time when there were no career classes at all, and so I went back and I said all right, I said, I think it should be taught by a woman, someone who's not famous, someone who is, right, who's just kind of a you know, a middle class when there could be middle class actors, just a middle class actor.

And how do you do that?

If you get famous, you'll figure that out because people will be around you to figure out being famous. But how to just kind of, you know, how do you find affordable housing, how do you do your taxes, how do you like, how do you look at a picture and decide what's a good picture and what's a bad picture.

How do you.

Navigate, you know, looking for an agent, and just kind of, you know, how do you not blow up your own career by doing something fucking stupid? Excuse my French.

Right, So there were those kinds of and I did that for quite a while, and I would just kind of come in and I did this for decades, decades, and I do, like, I don't know, seven eight ten classes over the course of a year for the fourth years.

And then I had.

Always I was I teach physical acting, and I use the tool of the mask. So I'm also a mask teacher.

And so.

As a crazy human that I am, I've always taught something my whole life. But when I graduated from school, what I should have been doing with my money was paying for my college loans and whatnot. Instead I went out and bought masks.

Why does that? Who does? Who does that? Stupid thing?

And I started just kind of teaching workshops and doing things around that, and it's something I really enjoy. I love being in process with people. That's what I think teaching is, and I think it's extremely creative. And I love now that i'm older, to be connected with a younger generation who kick my ass.

Go here's what you don't know? And I go, okay, well, here's what you don't know.

Together that you right, we get to collide together and it's they stretch me and help me grow, and it's just so fantastic and they're beautiful human beings. And yeah, I feel really really blessed. So I've been out of it at school almost since I left, almost since I left.

Yeah, wait, so do you teach all ages or is it mostly high school and Juilliard or do you ever you know, get.

The little jilliards eighteen to like thirty because it's your BFA and MFA is together.

So do you ever do even younger or no, that's not of interest.

I basically if anyone asks me, I'll do any age, Okay, I teach it asper, I teach at the Looci Body House. I teach lots of different places, and I love the variety. I believe that the world is healed through theater. Through through that, I think, I don't you don't have to go on to be an actor to benefit from from sharing energetic spaces with other people and developing your empathy and god, God knows what would happen to the world if we all right putting myself in other shoes.

Yeah, this episode of Mama, I would say, like I felt that from your character. I felt the empathy and your character because you know, your character is very relatable in this episode, Like I'm of the age where a lot of my friend's parents are getting older and a lot of them are getting diagnosed with sort of dementia Alzheimer's.

And they don't talk about their past. They have so many secrets.

Yeah, and like just this, like you know, it's it's just you know, your character is very like relatable in this episode, and you can feel like I just could feel like the pain coming off of you of like i'm my mom is I'm like losing my mom, but also something bad has happened to her and I don't know how, like I don't know how we're supposed to get it out of this like puzzle. You know, so did you have any like memories of making that episode?

Like uh so, like so many.

But it's also interesting just the topic itself, because I had also just done a play on the same topic, and I'd done a ton a ton of research around it, and I had we had were fortunate enough to have because I think you can read it. It's not New York Times magazine. It's they're following a woman who has got Alzheimer's who's still cognizant and is aware that she is like every day losing things, and her and her husband came together to talk to us and about strategies that they were using.

For her.

Like the phone has become this like amazing thing for people with Alzheimer's because it can remind you of things, it can have a trackers on it, you know, if someone picks it up, they can, you know, help you. I mean, it was just interesting to listen to her knowing that she she knows she's losing her mind, right, horrible horrible disease.

It's so horrible. Yeah, so horrible.

I also liked that the episode touched on like one of the other women that was attacked by the same man, like no one's ever visited her.

Yeah, and that was that stuck with me.

Well, I also think, I mean, I found that I found that that was interesting too, that the kind of whole nursing home thing is also an interesting you know, where do we put these people and how are they cared for? And you know, it is also just I mean, I think it's you know, because we have so many people aging are you know, this large population, it's I think I think a lot of people can relate to to what is going on in that episode and do you believe the person or not believe them?

And how do you know?

We we we started we're talking back about the episode, but you know, we talked about like a bad set situation, and we've talked about really bad acting teachers who like tell people to get their face done and you know, nose jobs and stuff or you're not going to make it. So I was just wondering, you seem obviously passionate and positive, but any kind of horror stories from your experience.

My god, when I was very first got out of school, I remember I I tested really early on, and it came back, we need to see we're worried.

That she doesn't have good cheekbones. Oh my god.

I was like, I'm not sure I could do about that. And you needed boobs and I didn't have boobs. It was like, you know, put the chicken cutlets in.

I mean, you know, just all this weird stuff. I remember early on. Oh you'll love this, this is a great story. Actually.

So I'm auditioning and I'm doing whatever, and I keep being sent home from my auditions to change my clothes and come back, and my agent is like, what the is going on? I don't understand what's going on here. They think you're really talented, really good. But like, so she comes over to my house. She goes, all right,

She goes, no, no, these girls do not get the job. She goes, you are not allowed to go shopping.

She sent someone with me to go shopping, and I'm like, oh, this skirt feels so short, like you know, I.

Mean completely like because I was to like city fire your wardrobe a little bit.

You were just kind of it up a little bit because I was really.

You know, I don't think i'd accepted I was a pretty girl. Yeah, I played character parts.

That's what I like to play. And it was like, oh no, that's not you have to go down this path. I met my lovely husband. I don't know you.

I'm married to the fantastic boy Gains who just is going to be inducted into the Theater Hall of Fame.

I'm November.

He's like, I was going to bring it up later, but I was waiting for you to bring him up because I wasn't positive your IMDb was updated, and you know, I don't want to bring up I don't want to bring up a broken marriage.

No, I was my amazing husband. Yes.

Yes, Because we always ask people that are married, because we've talked to a lot of people on our podcasts that are married to other actors.

Whe were like, you know, how does it do you?

Like it?

Does it? Does it?

Because my husband and I are both comedians, and we say it solved and creates a lot of problems, you know, so like do you guys audition together or do you help not audition together, like help each other with auditions?

Like, well, well, first of all, so following up on this story, I was getting ready when we were very first going out.

I was getting ready to head out the door to audition and he goes, where are you going. I'm going. I'm going to the audition. Now. He goes, come here, and he literally redressed me. He goes, take that off to whatever.

I get to the audition, I slip my hand into the into the suit jacket that he's put me and I pull it out and I have a little note there that says, you look fucking hot.

Oh, have an amazing husband. That's amazing. He's amazing.

He's an amazing guy. So anyway, so do we We've worked together a lot. We've been very fortunate to do a lot of plays together, which I love because he's so much better actor than I am, so he makes me better now.

He really is a really man. I am know that you don't get induction into the Theater Hall of Fame because you suck. He has four Tony Awards, He's been nominated five times. He's just he's really an extraordinary actor.

I was on his IMDb, but IMDb doesn't cover theater, so like I didn't know what the theater stuff he's done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, he's a theater guy.

That's his, that's his. He's an amazing theater artist. That's where he's made his life.

Okay, awesome.

Yeah, But that being said, I've also I've been fortunate enough to make a lot of commercials. That's like what's when I was early on, I mean just shitloads of commercials and everyone so.

Like they would go, oh, we want real couples, and I'd be like, no, please, please, don't please, please, he sucks. You can't do commercials.

To save it.

Why he's able give me one of my commercial husbands. Listen, we have taken up so much of your time.

I don't want to keep you for much longer, but I guess I just wanted to ask if there's any more little s vu set tidbits, a funny run in with iced tea, something cute about Marishka, anything you want to give us last night?

So other than Mrska has an incredible She enjoys a sense of humor. She loves it, she catches it, she's aware of it when it happens, she laughs out loud, and she calls you're funny.

She enjoys that.

Yeah, And is there anything you have coming up that you would love to tell our listeners about?

I have two little independent things. One of those in a whole bunch of festivals right now. That one short that's for and even made it into the Oscar nominated called Loser. It's really really good. Colleen the Guinness directed it. It's really lovely, really lovely, little little sound that really like. And then something called Silver Speakers that I did with my husband and Jim Notton, And it's so silly about trying to pick up people in a cemetery after your spouse has died.

It's very sutant. Anyway, Yeah, that's great sunset, Thank you ladies. Very lovely, lovely to Peach you.

Boll Oh my gosh, she was so lovely. Well, it's like you, I like talking to like a real like working actor. She's like out there doing the work, teaching the youth.

Yeah, it's cool now knowing, like with Michael Beach teaching sometimes because I think the what is it the narrative of like those who can't do teach or if you're a professor, why would I listen to you?

You're a failure or whatever? And then you yeah, like.

We get to talk to all these people that do teach at these schools and it's like, oh, you guys are getting like a great education from great people that are so good at their job.

Yeah, and who do work and who are success who do work.

We just I think if you're not an acting it's kind of like Alexis Billino, sorry in the Real HOUSEUS of Orange County when she's talking about to Heather Debro and she's like, Angelina Julie, that's an actress.

I don't know who you are.

And it's like, yeah, there's only a couple Angelina people acting, you know, yeah, there's a lot of.

Tears below Angelina.

Yeah, there's there's this idea of like what success is or isn't, and people put their idea of success onto you and it's just like, oh, you don't even get it.

And that's how I feel.

This is like, you know, this bitch isna Angeline is about to play a famous opera singer, and I wonder if she ever had a Mommy's juice moment or she had to, you know, have her son help her drink anyway, just uh, just a random.

Sam working.

Because I do podcasts, because I'm researching Murder all night long. I was so upset research. I just like sometimes it is just so sad. I mean usually it's so sad.

This is sad.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's it's not good, but a great episode with a lot of legendary actors.

I mean, Fanula Fanula flan again, and you know, we had a.

We had a lot of great actors and uh Sbu has tapped on this a bunch of times. This isn't our first time doing an episode about poor little old ladies being taken advantage of and I.

But also if one of the reasons you're having kids is so someone will take care of you later, like cross that off the list. Even though Kathleen played a really good daughter, it's just like that's you can't rely on that at all.

Oh yeah, Rosie and Oscar are not taking care of me for a second, Are you joking?

They're going to be out of here? Maybe Oscar? Maybe Oscar he loves my ass, but we'll say, but.

Yeah, I don't know, they're gonna be grown ups, Like what are they gonna be?

Like, it's so crazy.

I know.

Sometimes I just like look at Oscar's little face and I'm like, one day you're gonna have like little whiskers coming out of like your face, like little facial hairs.

Yeah.

Boy, puberty is really uncomfortable to be around. Rough.

Yeah, it's just really more like an anamorphosit Like it is just uncomfortable.

I don't like it.

I just saw one of my friend's kids, like after not seeing him like the whole pandemic, and he was like a kid the last time I saw him.

Now he's like a dude, and it's like so strange. But but I haven't heard of a kid's voice crack in a while. I would probably like that stick around.

They're coming A lot of these kids are gonna have voice cracks very soon. But yeah, the lessons from this episode, well, what's interesting is like that in this episode at least and in a lot of cases, it's like these are nicer homes like this. These aren't just like state run facilities where like, you know, things fall through the cracks like this is look at the view of this nursing home for Yeah, but I would mean to say.

That the the rapist he had money, Like having money helps you get in anywhere, even if you just want to like do not.

That important work. It's like when the take helps, it's.

Like I don't understand why it wasn't suspicious, Like these nippos are everywhere, Like.

We should have known what his mom made and been like why are you doing this job?

Like clearly you're a rapist, right, Like because if you just cared about the elderly.

Yeah you have you should be able to look up what your parents do, you would have a different kind of job. With that money.

You'd be like, oh, I'm gonna help or I'm gonna be a psychologist or something, but like you want to do the lowest paying jobs in these care facilities and you come from millions.

Uh huh, honey, you're a rapist. Yeah, something that's a red flag bitch. But also like what's the the other the other takeaway lesson is like pay attention. You don't be a dick to your son. You're turning him into a like that woman, just like an Archer's character, just like turned her son Like she was such a self involved bitch. I mean, like was it that she had too many boyfriends and just never paid attention to him?

His mother and yikes, yikes.

But also like believe people like, yeah, maybe she has Alzheimer's, but everyone men are raping constantly, so I would believe Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that hard to believe. That's what's people always act like it's hard to believe it, but it's I don't know how. And like let's check references.

People talk to people's last place of business, like, come on, Scott, like the guy in real life was moving from place to place.

I just want to talk to the writer of this episode with his mars of pan cookies. No one likes them, That's what I learned. The writer loves Markapan. Yeah their grandmother did, I'm sure. But anyway, A I don't want to say great episode, just a very hard hitting episode. It's a great episode in terms of SVW lore because we have an old starlit mother that's psychotic, we have a weird little man who's like come mother, and then we have Alzheimer's.

We have old people, we have familiar relationship, and we have.

Old like old legends of cinema and stage and screen coming back onto our TVs.

And love at the end of the episode. You know, that's cute. Those two have a cute little senior romance. That's fine.

The father son that we're in the bakery now like and a bakery I feel is classic sview, Like there is a lot of classics in the season nineteen episode.

Yeah, I'm happy to have yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Okay, let's move on to what would sister peg jew for. This is our weekly where we direct you to an article, a book, movie, a documentary, something to give you more info and what we're talking about this week, we wanted to direct you, guys to Elder Voice Advocates. This is a coalition of people and their loved ones advocating for those who have experienced abuse, neglect, and exploitation while receiving services from long term boarding and home care providers.

And that's that amazing. Thank you so much, and of course we will be back next week.

We never stop, baby Monogamy from season three, episode eleven, Classic Classic.

You guys are in much fucking treat top one for me.

I love this episode. Yeah, it's especially heinous. So thanks for listening.

Do all the things you know. Yeah, by hi to us in the streets.

Follow us on Instagram, come see us live, et cetera, et cetera. We love you guys, Thanks for listening.

Bye bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kraklank and at glitter Cheese.

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Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly Right Media Dun dun