Lost Traveler w/ Scott William Winters

Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done.

Hi, everybody, Welcome to That's Messed Up and SVU Podcast.

I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger and you get the drill.

This is our podcast where we talk about an episode of SVU, the true crime it's based on, and then we interview an actor from the show.

Lisa, what's going on, how are you? I'm pretty good.

I feel like my hair is the longest that's been in a while. I'm almost covering my tits with it, which has been my goal for probably a decade.

Wow. Yeah, very splash. Yeah.

I want to take a sexual photo shoot one day with my hair covering my boobs.

Nice.

Thank you everybody for listening and rating and reviewing us and everything. And we got a lot of great feedback about porn Star's Requiem. We also got an amazing tip from somebody that we know on the inside at the SVU production. Okay, so the guy who's doing the voice coaching Evy through this audition quote unquote is actually the

Than the casting director in real life.

I wonder if this is the casting director that I bombed in front of. I wonder if he remembers my terrible audition or not. Jonathan Jonathan Wright in people are sending us a lot of info about organized crime as well. People are like, we need to run through like what we know so far? We don't we know what you know?

Really like, we don't have any insight in FO on what's going on with organized crime.

They just added Dylan McDermott to the cast.

They've got obviously Christopher Maloney Rishka is probably going to pop in.

Well and the like.

It seems like SVU fans or Law and Order fans are like detectives in their own rights. So they're through their detective work. They're kind of spoiling the what might happen or not. They're like they were shooting here. That means this. We saw the trailers, the trailer didn't have this person, so this person must be dead.

It's like, you guys are wild.

You should be like fortune tellers helping the police departments because they're just on top of it. But I don't want to know these things, but I think they're right. I also want to say people have written to us about Marishka hosting SSNAL. It is a dream of hers, and I think we all need to band together and make this happen. Also with the internet news there, I had a big event happened this week.

Oh my god, we can't not talk about this. Oh my god.

If you follow us on Instagram or Twitter, you kind of know what happened.

And I was quote retweeted by iced Tea and I awoke. And what was fun is I had texts and tweets from other people going, can't wait for you to wake up, can't wait till you're awake. Everyone knows I like to sleep in, and so I was like, what's going on? And then I went on Twitter immediately and iced Tea responded, what's in the bowl?

Bart? That's a Simpsons thing?

Sorry, but you know, my favorite gift that I used so much is iced tea dancing with a bowl?

And I knew he was Cereal. I wanted to know his favorite cereal.

He did within the thread admit frosted flakes are his favorite.

Oh he did. I didn't even know.

He responded, Oh my gosh, that Scarese's in the thread responding it's it's a who's who.

Yeah Carriese's like, I know what's in the bowl. And I'm like, is this a weed joke? What is going on here? I want to smoke weed with all of you. But lots of people were writing, and then international people were shitting on Cereal and like America, Cereal suck. It's just sugar, and he's like, damn, even Cereal has haters and so like it was just I mean, I probably spent fifteen hours on my phone.

I couldn't stop.

And then a lot of people on my Instagram, I wrote like this is a big day, and they're like, this is a big day for us, for all of.

Us, for all of us. It was very, very thrilling.

The Internet gives us so many gifts, Yeah, and it just brings us.

Like closer and closer to meet them. I feel or I'm just delusional. I mean, it's like when you have a crush and you're like, oh, they liked this thing, or they watch the story and it's like it truly means nothing, but it inflates you. And your phone is listening, so they know who you're talking about, and then they'll just show you. I mean, I just have a problem with phone addiction.

We also the internet can also bring you some more glorious tidings in that we have just launched our official That's Messed Up merch, which you can get now on the Internet.

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Also for our next merch drops, if you guys have any suggestions of any quotes or sayings that you enjoy from us, maybe let us know so we can think about that. Also learn our fucking voices. What's wrong with all of you? I don't know what to do. We're gonna try to go on Insta live or put out videos like we want to know who's who?

And I can't believe it's so hard. I don't know. I guess we're just two juwye gals.

Maybe I think we have to see each other's names more. Lisa, Oh, okay, that's a great idea.

Kara, done and done. Ye's it? You got it? You should get it now and then we're not going to ruin anything.

No spoilers ahead in any way, but we both have seen promising young women.

Oh yeah, excellent movie. Go out and watch it, I mean stay in and watch it. Is what I mean, order it on like Apple or Amazon or wherever it is.

It is so good.

It covers the same themes I would say as SVU, but it's so sad.

I went into it knowing nothing about it. I mean nothing, So I think you should go into it knowing nothing. It's really really good and fun. Oh.

I watched the trailer like seven times over and over. I could not wait for this movie to come out. And not only is it's so smart, but visually it's stunning. The acting, the casting, the line, I mean, every single thing I thought was beyond and I don't want to like hype it up and then you're like, what a lying bitch. But I was blown away by this movie to the point where it stopped and I started it over again immediately and watched it twice, which.

I've only done twice in my life.

Once for sound of music and the other for sense and sensibility in the theaters.

Wait, those are not good, really. I've watched them both back to back because I love them so much. You know, we're different people, eaving, But when you're a kid.

It's different. As a kid, you just watch things over and over. It's like your brain can't take new information or something. But I watched Big Business so much that the tape, the VHS tape ripped, and then I was harper wore it out, and then for the holiday season, I have a video of me getting the Big Business tape and jumping up and down with joy, and it's just like how times have changed that one VHS tape I was jumping. I couldn't contain my emotions.

No, Big Business is a classic in both of our lives, for sure, Kara.

Did you know my great uncle wrote the sound of music? No, I did it.

But I'm not surprised. You have a connection to everything we've ever talked about.

Every guest we have, every guest.

Hannah's like, oh, by the way, my grandfather, Oh my cousin, you knew my best friend.

So let's get started. We've got a great episode for you guys, and we can't wait to get going.

All right, all right, So this episode I already forgot what it's called Lost Traveler. I remember it was a trick. It was a trick called Lost Traveler.

In season thirteen, episode nine.

Yeah, and we have a lot of amazing guest stars in this one. It is a we have a bad This is a nice classic, but in the future, you know, we don't have Stabler, all right, So we open up on this mom and little kid, and she does say that Jews and Gentiles don't care about their children, so we know there's some problems happening, and say that what.

They are they're romany.

They're Romany, and then the whole episode everyone does keep calling them gypsies, and everyone hates gypsies.

We're not going to continue using that word, but we need you to know.

There is a full on ethnic and race war happening in Brooklyn.

They're definitely considered very other because they're Romany, and like, it's funny that she's lumping Jews in with the Gentiles.

Yeah, because they don't. No one likes the Jews eye that were like our own thing.

So maybe the Jews because they need someone to hate, they hate throw them.

I don't know.

Well, we'll get into it with the real crime. I think, yeah, for sure. But I never was raised to not like gypsies.

No a yeah, but when we grew up that's what they were called, and we I never I didn't know.

And it's weird about how we're not supposed to say it is I on TLC that.

They have a show they watched my on call My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, like they still play.

It, And I really don't like the traditional gender roles in that community. There's a lot of because they make the girls be sluts at dances, but then they can't fuck. But then they're supposed to have children. It's like a really twist day. But their dresses are really big. And then they had a spin off of the dressmaker, the dressmaker from the weddings whatever, So we're gonna have some problems here.

So the mom we learned that the boy who is I think.

Too young but fourth grade and he's gonna go to school for the first time all alone, which I grew up in the suburbs, doesn't seem like a big deal. He has to take the G train from Jin to the J which I've maybe taken the J train twice for six years I lived, and then go to the Lower East Side to school and come on back. But they practiced for a whole week. The mom is nervous, but they have a plan. He has a cell phone

Hey you knows everyone.

Yeah, he's like a cool dork. And then we're at school and people are mean to him and the Roman. Yeah, but doesn't your mom tell fortunes? Yeah, which if I had a friend with a four, Like, if I knew someone's mom was a fortune seller, I'd be like amazing, let me come, we get in there.

Yeah.

My family is very secretive, so we don't discuss things openly.

But I learned recently that my.

Grandmother in Russia was a fortune teller type woman and people she never accepted money, but people would bring food because it was the Soviet Union, and she never said no, and she was like very mystical. And I do feel connected to her because I never met her. Yeah, so I like, no, that's cool.

So whatever. We have two teen bitches.

We have a couple guys and one of the teen bitches is Lily Reinhart.

Yeah, the most famous tea.

Yeah she's yeah, she's probably in her twenties, but she's like a famous teen like in the teen genre of television.

So, you know, we see him get bullied. School is over, we see him walk dunt dunt done. There's yellow caution tape on the train on what is it train entrance? Yeah, yeah, where he wanted to go in. So now he's confused. He does get his cell phone out.

Then we just see we see him and then we see cars pass and then he's not there anymore. Yeah, and it's so scary. But also in the background you see the bar of the Triple Crown where I used to actually do improv in the basement. So I don't know what is more tragic in the scene, the child going missing or me having to relive that. But yeah, so that actually where they shot that is in Midtown near Penn Station, but it was supposed to be Lower Norman High.

Yeah.

They play games like this all the time, Sex and the City game.

Yeah.

Yeah, then we have a bad boycott all right. You know he's just like, what are these gypsies? You know, like he doesn't care.

He's like, fuck this kid, fuck this hood.

Like it's like, why are you an officer of the law. I just don't understand what's happening. Actually I do exactly. But what's amazing about this guy is I used to watch the show OZ, that was an HBO prison show, and I did watch it as a child, and my parents should have been they should have been. I actually have a funny story. I worked with a guy who

Oh my gosh.

So everyone is showing up on time now. Me and my friend Matteo l A and he's a comedian. We're in Cleveland, Ohio or Cincinnati, whatever, somewhere in Ohio doing morning press for our tour, and on morning news in Ohio. I decide to say that story, oh, because I.

Think it's a funny tidbit.

The like the hosts of the morning show, they turn red, their jaws dropped, like everyone on set is so mad because I just said rape on morning television as a funny story. And so the whole production is silent and they don't know what to do and they have to get out of it, and then Mateo can't handle it.

So Mateo just is laughing, laughing. I'm like, I thought this was funny, and they're like, it's a morning news, you know.

Yeah, But anyway, OZ is one of my favorite shows. And I see the guy who's playing the cop. This is where you do better than me, Kara. You write the actors names down. I just have nothing. But he is the blonde guy. And he played Dean Winters, who's obviously an SVU favorite. Yeah, he's Mayhem. If you don't know, he was Tina Fey's boyfriend in thirty Rock.

I'm a big I'm a huge Dean Winters.

Yeah, so I go, oh, this actor was Dean Winter's brother in there are like Irish the O'Malley's or O'Reilly's or something in OZ and you look it up.

They're brothers in real life. Ye, Scott William Winters. Yeah yeah.

All these years I've been watching Austin's Junior High and I didn't know they were related.

So he's this guy named Doom that they call.

His name is Robert Doom, Dumas and he's I guess been in a few episodes.

Yeah, he goes these people, the kid isn't missing, This is a cop, This is just a.

Cor There's also, by the way, a mob outside, like the kid's been missing for a few hours, is already pressed. There's a mob, And I'm like, I know that they do consider themselves like a more of a disenfranchised group the romani But like that is that's white kid missing reaction.

I think, like I.

Think people are always like why aren't they showing up when black and brown kids go missing? You know, and they are in this episode, like there's a full press court like.

Yeah, but I think the press is like who cares? Like no, But that's like the vibe we get, yeah.

You know, yeah, that they're not taking as as and we have Amorrow and Benson at the moment.

If you're wondering who our detectives are, you know, they explain to the cops like we practiced.

All week, we saved our money. We took him to this far school.

The teacher saw him, you know, and they're talking about how this kid has caught in between two worlds. That's like what the teacher slash principal is like a door key guy. So there's no witnesses, no leads, and so they start checking in with the sexual registry in the neighborhood to see if any pedophiles were involved.

But they also mention that there's this man in the neighborhood named the Rombaro who they have they've stopped paying tides to.

Yeah, and that's the king of the Romani and basically he you know, well, this is another insulting thing. They're like, you know where these people live, and they named a bunch of countries. They are like one of the Stands or Estonia or Lithuania or whatever. So the Rombani in New York is like the Umborrow Roar. The Rombarro is like the connector of the Romani community in America to their community in Europe. And you have to pay tithes like this is fucking robin hood.

Well, it's also kind of like what the mafia would do.

The mob would like make you pay like a monthly advance to like make sure your store doesn't get robbed or make sure you're you know, oh I didn't know that. Yeah, that's like what the whole movie The Kitchen, which is a terrible movie is about, well, what a great cast.

I was so sad it's a bad movie.

We got Tiffany Haddish, Elizabeth Moss and miss Elissa McCarthy and I just yeah, I.

Went in and out. But yeah, like that's that's like a mob thing.

So it's like they stopped paying their tied so they could send Nico to this school in Manhattan. And the mom is like furious at the dad being like.

Yeah, everyone is scared of this guy, but you decide not to fucking payor tithe right.

And guess who plays the Rombarro say.

His name Hector Salamanca baby from Breaking Bad. He's the old man with the little bell in the desert. So that was thrilling.

I love him.

Yeah, he makes me scared even to see it, Like I mean he's like he's got a really like a presence of him.

I mean, you're dead on with that, because even like with a little bell in a wheelchair, he.

Was scared, like he's going to do something bad. He's still scared me, even when he was like paralyzed.

Yeah.

Yeah, he is an amazing actress. So he's like I wrote the bell guy from Breaking Bad. So that's what I'll be calling him.

So he nominated, and he nominated for that role. Really, wow, I wish you won.

So anyways, he says that the family doesn't associate with us anymore. They don't get our If they don't want our protection, they don't get our fucking protection. So you know, we're but he says that he would never hurt a child, and a part of me believes him. I don't know if that's stupid. So the gray Is are outcast, so that sucks for them. This family, they're outcasts in america secular culture, and then they're also outcasts in the Romani community.

He is alive and deleting them. Yeah, and then we get the surprise of a lifetime.

Gilbert Godfrey couldn't believe it, and his voice less annoying than normal.

Right, he really worked on down a little bit. Yeah, he's not an Iago level.

And he's not bringing us full of Yago. But yeah, he's an IT guy.

He's on two episodes total of SVU as this character who's like an IT guy.

Yeah, and there's a lot of information. We got an IP addressing.

Now we do this, and then we do this.

And he goes through like a full plan and he's doing so much exposition, and I'm like, okay, Gilbert.

Yeah, just get us to where we need to be. Basically where we need to be as a Chinese restaurant, I guess the something with the IP address of the cell phone is ordering Chinese food. So they go to this Chinese restaurant and the worker at the Chinese restaurant is an Svu, a lum of a different episode where she plays the parent of a killer because yes, who like cuts off legs, So well, I think we'll probably handle that one one day. But so we have a you know, an SVU legend legend.

We don't know her name or I forgot her name, but we'll be talking about early legend.

So they go to this she said that she did hear a kid crying in the background when they order the food. Yeah, no, They also complain the food was too spicy. The kid was crying the food's too spicy.

Svews like ears perk up because they're like, this guy has a kid, like you know.

So they don't go and they grab this guy, British accent guy. We find out he's a journalist and that he's trying to help. He's deleting these messages to help. I don't he's hacked in yeah, the messages. Yeah, the lawyer of the journalist is the guy from Sex and the City that worked at Vogue that made a pass that carried for all our dual listeners.

That's the actor is the lawyer of the journalists.

And basically, yeah, the journalist is hacking shit, and he thought deleting the messages would leave room for people to help.

Reach the book to get information.

Yeah, Cabot wants the guy's notes, and you know, journalists like their freedom. So the journalist doesn't want to give the notes, and Cabots like, give me the notes. And so some tall Manda is there, Cabot, the lawyer. They're all fighting. The boy is missing, let's help them. So we see that the deleted messages were all from the parents. The parents do not know where the boy is, so they don't know if it's an inside job. They asked the FEDS to hear what's an next he hacked into other things?

What is happening?

So basically what we figure out I don't know with what evidence. It's kind of all a blur to me with all the tech talk. But they show up at this like witchy woman's house and basically they're saying that her son, Marco Mark Mark, that he's done something. So we discover that she has a son who has special needs that she has locked in a basement.

He's also a large guy, He's a little bit bigger, so I think they're worried that, you know, he could have maybe hurt someone not knowing what he was doing.

Also, like, no matter what your kid is, like, when do we learn that you just lock a kid in a basement. Yeah, it's not in any parenting books I've read.

But the night before we learned that he was shuffled into a handicapped van in the middle of the night and taken away.

So they go to some encampment where.

A lot of romany people, many people live and they see him.

He starts running. They get him. They in to Gate so Rollin's and tomorrow talk to him. The mom told him don't talk to cops. She's gonna be pissed that he's talking to cops. They're like, Nico, mom is sad, you need to help us. He goes, I saw Nico on Monday. And he doesn't go anywhere without his mom. He can't have people over. So like, what's going on? The bell boy man he shows up the rombarro and he's also a lawyer.

He goes, shut your fucking mouth and stop. Okay.

So then the cops talk to these two popular girls from earlier and they're letting us know, like we're scared of Mark. Mark's a freak. Mark's dangerous. We see him smoking on his roof all the time. Like they also say that they saw Mark with the rabbit foot, so they saw Nico's rabbit foot with Marco. So then they get a warrant to go into Marco's room.

Mark room, and honestly, they do keep him in the basement, but he's in a room with like a TV and like a bit.

It's like a nice room even though he's locked down there. I mean, it's not good.

I'm just saying, I don't boo Radley's side think he's into a wall. He's like in his room with computer and like playing games, and he's.

Like, this is my room, Get out of here.

And then they find so they find a garbage doughnut bag from near Nico's school in his garbage, and they also end up finding the rabbit's foot underneath the mattress princess and the peace style just like right in the middle of the bed, which you know, I don't know, And they also find an MTA card, so they're going to obviously investigate where the MTA card was swiped cut to.

He has dozens of cigarette burns.

He was tortured, and they do think it's a novice torture, like not someone that's like experienced and torturing.

Because burns, Yeah, there's surface level. The birds aren't going deep.

So it's someone that's like scared to burn but excited to burn. So the wound shows like he peede he was so scared, and then he was strangled to death with a scarf. So you know, the parents are going to blame themselves forever. And that's what I kept thinking of, Like they're gonna be like, we shouldn't have let him go to school alone.

What were we thinking? And so the mom is saying, no, it's not my son, it's not my son.

When she has to identify the body, it's really a sad body identification because she's just like, that's not his face.

But because he's not alive, yeah, god, oh my god.

So the parents are mad that they haven't charged Marco, and they're also mad that people.

Keep shut up. They also are mad.

That keep people keep saying the name Nico because in their culture, they believe that his spirit cannot rest if we keep call saying his name. So it's like shut those So they're so mad at the cops, so they're like, stop saying his name, his spirit will not rest. So then they leave Nico's house and the two popular girls show up again with flowers, and at this point I'm suspicious.

This is where I get suspicious.

They come with flowers, they're planting a tree and getting a collection together.

So they start talking about Mark.

But the what we learn is Mark's DNA is not on the cigarette, but and there's no camera evidence, so what's going on? Marrow and Rollins are fighting and they can't agree on what's happening. And then Nadia Gray just tried to set Mark Rajet on fire.

Nadia is Nico's mother.

She tries to set Mark on fire because she thinks he's the guy that killed her son.

But this is the cost. Then Dean Winter's brother Doom says, God looks after kids and idiots. Lucky for him, he's both. It's like, not, okay.

The thing is, I love that as you puts these characters in because these are our experiences with officers. You know, they are mean and whatever. I'm not getting into it. So I mean, we are getting into it NonStop. So what we learn is the mom tried to burn him to get it back, like I for an eye type style. So they're like, wait, how did the mom know that her that there was burning that wasn't released anywhere? That was like, who fucking told her that it wasn't in

They can tick an Emma.

Yeah, and Emma's one of my favorite names in Courtney is an obvious mean girl name.

We were on a bachelorette party where the number one evil girl was a Courtney kicked out of the wedding subsequently, Yeah, which is thrilling.

My first bachelorette party and a bitch gets kicked out of a wedding party.

God's on my side.

So anyways, Amorro's like, these teen girls have been tipping us off. They've been following us, They're everywhere that we are. It is these fucking girls. And then they find evidence of the girls on camera seeing Nico by the train station and they said that they didn't see him. So now they know that there are lying. And then they asked the bellman to help.

They asked from Barrow to help, and he's like, we don't trust the cops, and the cops are like, trust us.

So now the Romani and the.

Cops are going to work together to get these little girls. So now they talk to Mark and so Mark now gives up the info. Yeah, Romborro convinces Mark, like the cops will help you. So what he says is Courtney is so pretty, she had a nice dog.

Emma's nice.

They made him stop watching football so he knew it was Monday night. So that's like pretty nice skills. Courtney is an amazing liar. So we find out she gave him a hand job. Yeah, and he talks about it weird. He goes, she touched me and if he goes.

Stuff came out it felt funny but nice. I'm like, yeah, that's the gist of a hand job.

Like I don't think it should feel funny.

Stuff comes out feels nice, but yeah.

Tomorrow's like, how do you remember that? And he's like, I got my first hand job? What do you mean a woman made me come? I'll remember that forever. It was football, And then you know, Emma starts to so, this is my favorite s view thing where they get one person to sit out in the squad room and then they get the other person in to bring.

A mess them by the other person, so they play them off each other to make it make them paranoid.

Why the fuck is here? Yeah, so Emma obviously starts crying. She says it was Courtney and Courtney's Lily Reinhart. She goes, you know, we were just playing around with him, and then she wouldn't stop. She lit a cigarette. Emma said no, she tried to stop, but it didn't and he was crying and he was calling to his mom, and we're learning that this is a common thing, and it's so sad.

It's also like common that one person goes completely off while the other person just stands there and is like, I don't know how to stop you.

I don't know what to do.

I feel like we've seen a few episodes like that and read about a few real cases like that.

I just can't imagine standing there, even as a teen, and watching my friend burn a little boy.

I really can't and then choke him to death. I was a follower, you know. I wanted uggs, want I had a choker necklace. It's not like I'm some.

Leader of independence, right, you know. I wanted the same things as everyone. I was a Backstreet Boys fan. But I really don't think i'd watch my friend burne a child.

Who knows.

I just I think my parents raised me a little better than watching someone murder someone whatever. So then because he was calling for his mom, Corney grabbed his scarf and I was yelling no, and then Courtney said whatever, He's just another gipsy.

No one will miss him. So she's racist as well as being a slice. So this is a fucking hate crime.

Yeah.

So then they come out they're like, Emma told us everything.

You're a dumb bitch and Courtney goes, stupid, little bitch, it was just a joke. We were just fooling around with him, and he started crying and made it look like he wasn't he was gonna tell, so I shut him up. So she shocked Mark snitch. She goes, oh that's weird. Why did he switch? I gave him so much fun like.

She the only funnies ever had. Yeah, so she's evil.

We could tell, you know, ice in her veins, sociopath forever, there is no helping And then the dad goes, we should get a lawyer, and she goes, it's a little late for that, dad. So she also has a sense of humor. Nothing better than a teen killer with a with a joke. Yeah, she's funny as hell. You know, Courtney is cold. Benson asks why and she says why why not?

Evil teen stare that we watch us View four yeah, that's the end of the episode. Ye, so she's definitely like a sociopath who would have killed again, I'm sure, Oh yeah. I mean if you could kill a fourth grade boy with for no reason, when you'd kill everyone, I mean she's fourteen, it's wild.

So that's yeah, but crazy episode. And I know nothing about the crime, so I can't wait.

The crime this is based on is horrible, but I'm going to walk you through it when we get back.

Hi, guys, we missed you.

Let's get into the true crime that Lost Travelers based on. So this episode was clearly influenced by the murder of Liby Kletzky in Brooklyn, which happened four months before this episode aired, so you know, they had the writers just like in the room.

So it was in over the summer, so it was like a quick turnaround, not just like oh wow, what a coincidence.

No, okay, yeah, it's like definitely related. This happened in this crime happened in July. The episode aired in November, so it's like four months difference. And I'm going to get into that case in a second, but I first just wanted to touch briefly on another case that this episode borrowed from so the part about the journalist checking Nico's phone and deleting the messages and erasing them is ripped from the case of Millie Dowler, who was a

And was it the same He had the same goal why he was doing it.

Yeah, he was doing it to get information for the story because it was a hugely sensational story like they were. But this wasn't discovered for years later, like her body was found in O two and it wasn't until twenty eleven that this actually came out, but they did it way earlier and later it was discovered actually that her phone automatically deletes messages that have been listened to within seventy two.

Hours, so they weren't actually deleting them.

But it's still massively like fucked up that they would be hacking into a missing girl's cell phone and listening to messages. It seems like it's also a complete like hindrance of a police investigation as well.

I also just realized why I know Scotland yard and it's from one hundred and one Dalmatians, So that's pretty embarrassing.

I'm like, Carrie, yeah, I know that the police in London.

You're like, I know, how else were they gonna find those dogs?

So this actually was part of a major scandal. So News of the World is owned by Australian slimeball Rupert Murdoch, who also owns a little propaganda network you may have heard of called Fox News, and they were like known for hacking. They would hack royal celebrities, politicians like all the time.

That's what sucks. So soopaths win.

Our society is built for evil, soulless people to win.

It's like so fucked up. Yeah in every career. Yeah, well some people did fall from this, but you're route not enough. So when it was discovered that they had actually hacked this missing and ultimately murdered schoolgirl's phone, and they had also hacked victims of the two thousand and five London bombing, I think people were like, Okay, they've officially gone too far. So everybody, advertisers boycotted, people were freaking out, and the whole paper was shut down.

News of the World was shut down.

Yeah, and there were a bunch of like high profile resignation and I think somebody actually was convicted of something like the editor in chief. It's actually a wild story if you feel like poking around the internet. I'm not going to get too much more into it because it doesn't have to do with this s forview, but that's where they borrowed that little section from really kind of insane. But this episode is obviously more heavily based on the murder of an eight year old Hasidic Jewish boy in

And it's you know, they just changed the community a little bit. But the Jews are also like an other exactly exactly.

They switched it up, which I think is what's funny about her saying the Jews don't care about their children. And it's like this is based on the crime happening in the Jewish community at the beginning of the episode. So the crime took place in Brooklyn, specific in Borough Park, which is a huge Jewish population. Some say it's the biggest Jewish population outside of Israel. And Libi was walking home from a day camp that was at his school.

Because no one really goes into the neighborhood. And when I lived in Williamsburg and we would buy or like walk around where it became super religious. Like the kids didn't go pet cute dogs like they didn't. They don't really interact with other people with other people even on the train or anything. So it does create a sense of safety.

I just want to give you a prayer. Always come out. It's with the lulav and the men.

They always are like a Jewish and I always go no, even it's just like I'm busy.

They give away little books and stuff, but they they are an insular community, so I can understand the illusion of safety.

Yeah, and also it was a super short walk.

I actually Google mapped it, like It's was six small blocks and one avenue. He basically just had to make his way over one avenue and then walk down six bucks to meet his mom. Unfortunately, he never took that turn. He just kept walking and he walked like five avenues out of the way. So he was supposed to go on to thirteenth Avenue.

He ends up.

You know this happened to me when I was a kid.

Really yeah, I for some reason, I forgot my basketball and so I went back to school. I lived close to the elementary school, and I got my basketballt of my like cubby or whatever. But then I walked the other direction, like I just didn't understand. I know I had to walk just straight, but I walked straight the other way and I passed like a giant busy street, and I was like.

What has happened before?

And then when I the fucking crossing guard finally saw me crossing guard patch, she like screamed at me. But it is interesting, Yeah, like kid brains are dumb.

We just no.

So to me, all I thought was straight line, but I didn't assess where.

Because he overshot it by like five avenues. That's like a pretty long and I think he was. There's a lot of video surveillance of him looking like disoriented, like he definitely didn't know where he was. So Libee's mother Esther first called the Borough Park Chamrim, which are kind of like police, but they're more like community patrols in

So he ammediately enough people to do both.

Well, right, But this guy specifically went to the school, got the camera footage, then walked on forty fourth Street like the whole end, got camera footage from every business that he could find.

So he's actually amazing.

Yeah, so like honestly, he helped sort of streamline how quickly.

So they did not contact the police yet, like the NYPD at this point.

I think that the search at the beginning is a combination of NYPD and the Shamre. So they have been contact that he's missing, but I'll tell you when they kind of bring the police in.

More So, everyone assumed.

That Libey had been taken by like an outsider, And it turned out when he missed thirteenth Avenue, he just walked all the way to eighteenth Avenue, and that's where he met Levi Aaron, who was another member of the Hasidic community. This man's thirty five years old, a supply store clerk who lived less than two miles from the Klutzkis, and he had promised to give the boy a ride to a Jewish bookstore where he knew how to get

So he didn't recognize the religious man. He just said, Oh, that's one of mine, that's one of my p just said, that's one of my people.

That's who like.

That's why his parents have taught him. And I think that's what people like. Ask another Jew. So there's video of them chatting, and then there's video of Libby waiting for him for seven minutes while he goes into a dentist's office and then they get into his Honda Accord or his handa.

I don't actually know if it was a Cord. I'm editorializing.

They got into his like old ass car, and then he drives him to a wedding in Monsey, New York, which is like a little hamlet, like an hour and ten minutes up the Palisades Parkway. That's like a Jewish community. Don't know why nobody at the wedding sees Liby, so he probably left him in the car. But there is a video surveillance of him at a gas station, and the guy at the gas station said he didn't seem like he was struggling, he didn't seem upset. He just

Why did he take him to months before taking him home.

It's all completely unexplained because so right now everyone is running around looking for this boy, and he ris well. So he goes home to Brooklyn the next day, he ties Liby up and leaves him in his apartment all day while he goes to his shift at work. And when he's at his shift, that when he goes to work, is when he notices the hysteria about everybody looking for him, like posters everywhere of his face.

Listen.

I understand that he didn't realize the hooplah until maybe the next morning, but.

Tying a kid in your room is not.

He took him to a wedding, no one cares, He brought him home and tied I just seem like horrified.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's terrible, like and he like thousands of thousands people are looking for this little boy. And so what's crazy too, is in this article I was reading Yakoff, German. This guy I was telling you about

I just don't care how you go from well just casually to I need a kill. It's like you wouldn't go to jail for that much. I'm sure the Jews would actually be like just.

Happy to literally I wrote, what's crazy is that he had no apparent motive for taking this kid, Like zero motive.

Yeah, it's not like he is a creepy. Maybe he does have crimes in the past that we just don't know about. Well, I'll get into it. Seems you're right, it seems like a nervous thing. But it's like if he just released the boy.

No exactly exactly.

So when the police got to his house, Livey's feet are in the freezer and then the rest of his body was in a suitcase that he had dumped a few blocks away, so he obviously got a psych evaluation at Bellevue which called Aaron's mood neutral, like his personality was practically blank, which I think is kind of creepy.

He always said that he was never the same after this accident.

So he said he was embarrassed about hearing voices in his head, but that the voices didn't command him to do anything. So they didn't diagnose him with like straight up schizophrenia or anything. But he was diagnosed with an

Do they say what songs?

Yeah, he liked a lot of pop disco rock like stuff that was like popular.

I think, so this just makes no sense. Oh yeah, Journey. I read that he liked Journey. I read in one article.

It seems like I got the vibe of like, you know Courtney's answer of why and she goes why not?

Like HD you do this?

He literally said about like why did you pick up Liby to begin with? And he was like I thought I knew him, But people said that he had no ability to distinguish. He could tell you somebody he knew, but he couldn't tell you whether they were a friend of his or not.

Like he just didn't.

This clearly is a person with mental issues like that are maybe not as cut and dry explainable as like schizophrenia or voices, or like psychotic violent tendencies but if he has this adjustment disorder, like a stressful situation was at hand, which as you have taken a boy who everyone is looking for and he just freaked out and was like got got it rid of it.

Because in theory, okay, the tying up is weird. But if he came home and untied him and was like, I found the boy. I found him last night. I kept him. I didn't know what was up, right, he would have gone.

Away with it.

Yeah, it's the fear of getting it's really upsetting.

Like also the fear of getting caught followed by like a plan that was completely incompetent to get rid of the body, do you know what I mean, Like just blood everywhere, like like just it's crazy plan.

Yeah, And it's like not that one murder's worse than another. It's like they're all pretty upsetting, and especially to the family is in person, but it is so much harder to listen to like no, I don't know it just happened.

Yeah, it is crazy.

It's just easier to digest when it's like this is a psychopathic killer or someone che did someone was angry, they have control, they're abusive.

Okay, I got it.

This is so much harder to digest because it just I just think it's.

So sad that he went to the one person on the street he thought he could trust, Like he could have gone up to a woman wearing like jeans and a T shirt, but he's like, she's not part of my world, and he went up to the guy that's part of his world, and he was the.

One that so like. So he obviously has a team of lawyers.

One of his lawyers quits because he's like, this crime is too heinous, like I can't. His other two lawyers were very green, like one of them had only had one homicide case and the other had only had six, and the judge had to scold them for openly talking about the trial on Facebook and for talking to the press too much. So like he had a bad late legal team. But then they brought in another lawyer, this guy Howard Greenberg, who was doing it pro bono and

But yeah, but I like in places like months here or whatever, if it's a small community, yeah, you're ben a fuck a cousin.

Like I think that's just what happens. Well, he got in trouble for that, but you're not going to So they were going for an instant defense.

But I just don't think it's specific to that community. I just think if you're in a small ass area, you're more likely to fuck a cousin. I think that's where the you know, Southern people. Yeah, that stereotypes come from. It's just like, if you're in a town of three hundred and you're not going to travel or go anywhere, you might fuck a family member.

That's it.

I don't know.

Yeah, true, you're not wrong.

So they were going to go for an insanity defense, but Aaron ended up pleading guilty for a sentence of forty years to life, which the Kletzky family was fine with because they wanted to avoid a trial. They did sue him for one hundred million dollars in civil court, and Levi Aarin will not be eligible for parole till twenty fifty one, and I don't think he'll probably ever see freedom. That was just such a highly publicized case.

The medical examiner always finds a cause of death, like, well, it's also this thing.

It's like he's what you said, tied, gag taped, you know, like there's obviously foul play. He didn't he didn't tape himself and tie himself up, so to not have any investigation, Like you can't just say there's no cause.

Yeah, it's clearly an outside cause, right some states under the tongue, well, some say it's possible he was tortured, and like I guess some have compared it to the case of Auto Warmbeiner whatever his name is, when he went to North Korea and they kept him, remember the guy, and then he died.

They were sending him back to the US and he died.

They were never able to determine his cause of death because he had been tortured for so long that it was just like various parts of his brain were just like decomposed, like so I don't know, they were like if this guy was tortured, he could have had a heart attack, but like a heart attack you can tell in a medical exam. Well, also, nobody's covering this because.

That's the problem with the medical examiner. And this is I learned this from doctor Michael Badden and some of his investigations because people to him to be like fuck, so what happens is like I remember one case where a sister of a victim was like, his wife did this, but because of the death certificate said natural causes, the police cannot investigate. And so doctor Michael Baden had to come in like prove that there was foul play so then the investigation could be open and prove that it

Yeah, that's what's crazy.

So it's like because they couldn't determine this cause of death, there just was no investigation, Like did they think this guy bound himself up and put himself in a clause?

So I guess they can't prove he didn't, so are their theories.

Do people think it's like the Hasidic community just getting rid of this person. Some people said that they thought it might have been, you know, yeah, retribution for what his brother did.

But also people suggest.

That he could have mental illness, like there were other people in the family with mental illness. I don't know if you're mentally ill that you bind yourself your legs with duct tape and throw yourself in a closet until you die.

I don't really understand, like or if that it happened, it would have been starvation or whatever suffocation.

Yeah, so it just seems like a giant cover up. I mean, I just I think people are like, we're just not gonna because.

This isn't the police of the this is like the natural medical examiner.

Jurisdiction.

Yeah, because it also might be like a New York thing where it's like I remember this case, fuck this guy, you know, like I could.

Have I mean, I don't know it it does.

It's scary like if you had a sibling who killed people, would you be like, I guess people have to kill me now, Like I get I have to die. Also, I would change my last name and get the fucking did That's the thing. They all live in the same house where it happened, and obviously people like avoided that house, and it was like they said, people were like, you know, it was like a haunted house in the neighborhood.

I'm sure the kids would ding dong ditch or whatever.

It's really crazy, Like I could only find like one source on it.

It's just wild. But anyway, it's just.

Scary because to think of that a medical examiner or someone that is sole purpose is to help the dead can so easily just go nah.

Well, they were saying, this happens sometimes the medical examiner can't determine and I was like.

But in this case, that seems strange.

I understand if a body has been mummified or a body has been burned beyond recognition where you can't like you can't find ligature strangulation marks or whatever. I kind of understand that stuff. But this seems like it would have been a pre purpose. Yeah, it's crazy.

It reminds me of did you watch that note like the drug scandal police Investigator one? It was a story both happened in Massachusetts, but these two drug examiners for the state were just like fully falsifying.

Oh this is on Netflix, Yeah, fully falsify information.

One was a drug addict and stealing the drugs.

One was just trying to get promotions and was just like trying to get in with the prosecution and the cops and be like, I'll get like they purposely requested her and be like, you know what we need and she'd be like got.

It wasn't testing shit.

And so it's amazing that case got blown up and we were able to see.

But it is scary to.

Think how many corrupt investigators, people with personal vendettas whatever, and how they have the power to just say case shut.

Yeah, it is pretty fuck to think about that.

Yeah, And just like the New York posts, like the New York Times, all these outlets were covering the murder of Lebi Klitsky, and you just would have assumed that they would also be as interested in his murderer's brother possibly being murdered.

And this also does not bode well for Jewish stereotypes of Jews controlling everything, because yeah, if the Jews wanted him dead and now all all the papers and everyone's like we're not talking about it.

It's like, uh oh, this doesn't look good for stereotypes.

The Illuminati covered up this murder. Yeah, all right, guys, we've got another one of our Trademark interviews, So let's get ready for our guest. We're so excited we got a chance to talk to this actor.

He is so great. I mean, he is prolific.

He has starred in Goodwill Hunting in a role that is unforgettable.

He was in the groundbreaking.

HBO series Oz and is currently a recurring character on Narcos on Netflix. So guys, you're gonna love him. Please stay tuned for our interview with Scott William Winters and The Lost Traveler. He's kind of like a sure, how do you describe him? He really did not care for the community, No, the romani community.

When I think of Doom. Yeah, he's a total knucklehead with how he sees life. But you can still fall in love with knuckleheads. It's mine.

Yeah. Well he made I mean, he was funny.

That's the thing that's hard is like you kind of want to hate him, but then you are laughing at some of the things that he is.

Bringing to the table.

How often do you get asked what it's like working with your brother, because we're going to ask say it, but how often did people ask?

Frequently? But way more so when OZ, I think was on the air.

Right right.

Yeah, we kind of put it together like we were watching Lost Traveler and we didn't even really realize immediately that you guys were brothers. We just saw you were like, oh this do we should have this doom guy on our podcast? We were like, they're brothers, Like we didn't really realize.

Yeah. I love working with the Dean And I mean we've always been close. Friends were super different, but we've always been like really close, you know a lot. A lot of times I think people who are different, even though the default thought is probably that people who are like become friends, but I kind of think, you know, kind of a jigsaw type thing. So we've been close. And Dean was on OZ first, but he really wanted me on the show, and so Tom Fontana just brought

What did you do before then? What did you think you guys were? What were you going to do?

Dean was modeling and I rescued him from that. When I started studying acting, I was working for New York, New England Telephone. It was called nine X.

It's kind of like, yeah, yeah, I remember.

So I wore a suit. I was like a suit for a little while. And so I was working it was like a sales kind of systems marketing kind of job. And I was just dreadfully, dreadfully bored in my cubicle, like freaking out. So I could probably do sales, you know, if I wasn't doing acting, I could probably because I'm very super relation and all and I love people. But the creativity bug really got me. Yeah, So I did

So this is I mean, we have to focus on this sview.

But for us, such an intense character, such intense scenes, what's it like on set when they cut? Were you in character all the time? Would you laugh and be silly after? How does that work with such intense subject matter.

Yeah, so many people ask that question.

Yeah, well because especially for your character, because there's like a voice and a different there's just so much physicality difference too that Yeah, it's impressive, and it's just so dark.

I mean, it's just so that shows wild.

Yeah, it just as it aside, it's sad that we never i mean, awards are like really at the end of the day, it's just tinfoil doesn't mean much. But because we only did eight episodes a year, we were never up for the Yemmis.

Oh.

And we had so many good actors on that show, I mean, some.

Of the best crazy and the biz.

And it was Jack Simmons, Jack Simmons and you know, and obviously Chris Maloney and Harold Piano and we all felt super grateful to be shooting a show in Manhattan with Tom Fontana, who just had such a good reputation and it's such a top down kind of phenomenon, you know,

And then, so how was it working on SVU? Did you always have a great time there? Was it similar vibes.

Or like different vibes, good vibes, but just different. That might be because of the number of people in the cast. I don't know. OZ was like this very populist kind of a show. The cast was huge, and there was this kind of just level playing field, whether you were a guest star or a series reg And I think just because of the nature the form of SVU, it was first of all, you know, twenty seasons running or whatever,

We Know Them. If you want us to tell you, yeah.

Then they should really bring my character back. So you want to tell you yes, your entire fan base just have yeah, you.

Know hashtag bring back Doom, Bring back Doom. Yeah you gotta.

I want you and Rollin's to have a romantic moment. Do you feel like that would ever happen for you?

Guys thought that they might write that in, but she she's a little superior to Doom.

You know.

I just I thought that they might want it to go that way, but they didn't.

So yeah, because one of the episodes you're in, you're like, I'm gonna go say hi, and then she turns around and she's like eight months pregnant.

Oh yeah, what do you get recognized the most from?

Probably Good Will Hunting.

I was gonna say you, those those scenes that you're in are like the seeds the Seeds for Will Hunting that my friends and I like Quol all the time, like my boys wicked smart, Like I just can't believe you're that You're that guy.

Now.

I wanted to ask you that you had a pretty luxurious ponytail in that movie.

Was that a wig? Was that your real hair?

Oh? No, that was my real hair.

Oh my gosh.

I could show you a picture of my hair right now from the day on OZ when I got executed, because it was down to my waist. Wow, it was literally down to my waist. Yeah, I like, I like long hair, but I think you can get a haircut now. But yeah, that was.

My real Your character in that scene from Will Hunting is like those iconic scenes I know, and.

I'm so flattered that I got to be in that because they used that scene in like acting classes. Oh yeah, I've seen it at like sporting events. I'm like, no way, you know. Yeah. And then that's just that line, how do you like them apples that Matt says to me. I mean that's just was like huge. I mean that's like a reading card kind of a line.

Yeah, You've been in so many things. What do you do when you are not acting?

I do prison ministry at like a real prison, oh wow, like every week for a few years now. And I have such a heart for prisoners. I'm like an artist spokesperson for Prison Fellowship. So I'll just go and speak at different prisons. But then here in La I go to a prison now since COVID, like it's been held up, but I've done it for a year ago Wednesday mornings, and man, I just love these guys so much. Like

Was thrilling.

Oh my gosh, you guys can't see him, but he looks exactly like his brother. He's just Blondean Winters, which I don't see in his work.

Like I never actually saw.

They looked like in the episode. I did not think that's that's stem.

So we started doing research.

I had no idea they were truly related, which is shocking because we are such a big fan.

Yeah, we had no idea. But the more I could not, I couldn't stop. I also A'm just I'm very pleased. I'm just like so happy with someone that their passion is to help people and they do it and so.

Humble about it.

The fact that we talked about Prisoner's crime cops the whole time.

And not until the end. Yeah, did he kind of like sort of a hero. I spend a lot of time talking to Prisoner.

It's like amazing, I'll do one soup kitchen, I'll talk about it for three weeks, Like I don't understand he's been doing this for over a decade and I didn't mention this, but I wanted to.

Higher people that have gone to prison.

Yeah, you know the place where I buy wee or when I lived in West Hollywood that dispensary was known for hiring felt like ex cons and people would complain that the weed was too expensive there, and I'd go, I think it's worth it, because you know, it is so hard to get jobs and start your life over, and especially with shows like Orange Has Been Black, you learn how hard it is teep paroled and all the fees you you have to pit am and it's just your setup to fail and also just to be judged on.

Know, Well, that's a huge well, yeah, seeing somebody beyond the split decision they made in the worst moment of their life. Like you said, you know, I think that that's great. That's definitely what we learned in this episode. What else did we learn because.

You know, I didn't never went to jail for a long time or prison, but I did get arrested a bunch and it would suck if people only saw me as the twenty year old who was like drunk and going to jail forever, you know, or kept bringing it back.

And I'm lucky that my job is just talking.

What else did we learn about the episode post mortem style?

Yeah, let's do this post mortem.

Yeah, just because someone else is an Orthodox Jew and you're an Orthodox Jew does not mean they're good.

Is that weird? Yeah?

I mean imagine if I just went up to like other white women, yeah, for help, and I don't know, I guess it's like everybody in every city can decide when to let their kids walk alone. But it's like so sad in both of these, in the real story and the episode that this is like what happened from kids walking along.

Yeah.

Also, if Team Girls show up with flowers all the time, they're guilty. Yeah, if they if they're giving you clues, yes, if one of them is very gorgeous.

And then today is one of the biggest stars in the world and has like millions and millions of Instagram followers, she's up to something, you know. Yeah, Lily Reinhart, you're a murdering bitch. Well.

I also, and you know, when we talk about people's biases and racism and all that and how it affects everyone's daily lives where it's like, you know, this officer didn't care for this culture of people, and so that person's police work is going to be worse. They're not going to care as much. And it affects people's lives,

It's truly destroying people's lives.

It's destroying people's lives when police officers have biases towards specific cultures and don't want to help people, and how hard we all have to work, no matter what our job is, to work on those biases. So we're not pieces of shit. I mean, I don't know how to say. So, we're not negatively impacting people's lives on serious and serious ways.

And they were wrong.

I mean, in the end, it was like the most clean cut, white bread girls that were the criminals you know in the episodes.

So it's like, do your police work.

And yeah, I'm not a detective, but I think that's one of the things where you can't go in deciding you know what the truth is, because then your research and investigation is gonna try to lead you one way, or you're going to ignore certain facts or evidence because you're not being open. So if any police are listening, I have some tips from a not I feel like Mike Pence with Kamala being like, I'm gonna tell you about prosecution when she's like.

Don't fucking tell me how to do my job.

I just think it's important for all of this to like realize maybe if we were raised.

To hate an ethnic group, maybe to stop doing that.

Yeah, for sure, don't live off the green line, don't take the j Like, if your kid's going to go to a school, make sure it's not off the jay train.

Make sure they don't have to transfer.

I mean kids, city kids are crazy to me, like they are they're so cool.

I babysat some boy who would go to ballet on his own. He was just like living the dream and I can't. I can't imagine walking home in the suburbs was like, you know, too much for me. These city kids just zip zapping around.

I don't get it. They're mature, but it's dangerous. I don't know. I'm not a Are you gonna let Rosie go to school on her own? I don't know.

I mean her elementary school is walking distance from our house, but I still I don't know.

It's not we don't live so city. I don't know, we don't live so urban. But anyone can scoop anyone up in a van. I don't know.

I really have to. I can't blame anyone who's let their kid walk.

I can't. I just have to. You have to do what you think is right and what your kid's ready for. But I don't know.

Also, who could have guessed the team girls were gonna grab you know what I mean? That's like the last you know, you are scared of all these other things. But I don't think on their parents' mind, we're like, we're scared of the two junior.

Okay.

And in the real life story, it's like this poor kid did go up to somebody that was his parents taught him to go up to someone that's like part of your community, and it just was Also, it's better to be caught and go to jail for a little bit than to kill someone that might have seen you and might tell on you.

And then you go to jail, and then and then you go to jail forever.

Yeah, you don't need to murder a kid because you like took them to a wedding upstate.

Like you'll go to jail for a couple of years for kidnapping. Like you get a good lawyer.

Yeah, maybe the parents won't even press charges because they're happy to see their Yeah, do not kill someone just because they saw you do a crime.

That fear is not real. You're gonna get get in trouble. Yeah, get in trouble for a minor crime. If you were dumb enough to get seen, you're gonna get caught.

It's just horrific. I think about this all the time. I'm like, what if I'm in the wrong place and eye witness a crime, They're gonna kill you. Lisa, I don't want that.

I don't either. We have a friend. She might be a liar though I don't know.

She's she's nutty, but she told me that she knew someone who's like a cool girl, but who was in the Russian mob.

And she did get shot in the face eventually.

Wow wow I know this person or just yeah, oh wow, can't wait for you to tell me off Mike.

Who that is? Oh.

Also, if your kid OF's special needs or different differently abled, learns different, don't lock them in the basement.

Don't boo Radley your children.

Yeah you know, don't do it or hugo for you know the Simpsons reference if that helps anybody, But yeah, don't change your kids up in a in a room to think that will never make anyone's life better or easier.

And make sure they know.

What jizzing is so one girl doesn't make them jizz and then they're ready to go to jail forever.

I don't know how that is.

Like, make sure if you have an adult kid that might be avert, get their dick sucks so they're not just like, we'll do anything for this teen murdering seductress. These are real lessons in case you happen to start into this episode of Law and.

Order that he knows what jizzing is because he goes it felt funny. I liked it, No clue what it is. Don't lock your kid in a basement and don't tell on how they did for some.

Anatomy and some basic sexual functions. Yeah and yeah, and don't give them a Chris Kirkpatrick haircut.

Okay, I think I'm on that note.

We're going to wrap it up and now, as always, we're going to do our what would Sister Peg Do segment where we give you guys resources or charities or organizations that we wanted to highlight that have to do with what the episode covered. So today, obviously we covered an episode that was based around the Romany community. I think there's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of or maybe no information.

Maybe you didn't.

Even know really that the Romani community existed, So we wanted you to head to our show notes for this very informative Daily Beast article that just sort of gives you a little bit of the history of the Romany and what their struggles are like.

We also really wanted to highlight Scott's program that he volunteers with called Prison Fellowship, and that's Prisonfellowship dot org and they work with transforming the lives of prisoners, caring for children and families of incarcerated people, and also advocating for justice that restores and they do a lot of great work and so if you want to volunteer or donate, that's Prisonfellowship dot org.

And next week we will be covering the episode Slaves from season one, episode twenty two, going back to the beginning, folks, So make sure to tune in via Hulu or peacock or wherever you watch your SVU episodes.

And if you enjoyed the pod, you know, throw us some stars baby like it's Mario, and you know, subscribe to us and give us attention. And if you didn't like the podcast, shut your fucking mouth and we will see you next week. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer and fellow sv super fan, Hannah Kyle Craton.

Thank you to our heroes Steven Ray Morris and Annalie Snelson are Engineers.

To Henry Kaperski Musical Extraordinaiy for our theme song.

To our artistic Queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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