Loss w/ Stephanie March

Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done.

Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

I am Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

We talk SVU, we talk crimes, and then we have amazing guests and we're so excited that you are joining us. Today we have a jam packed superstar episode. I would say so thrilling that you're joining us. Also, I didn't tell you I saw Leland, creator of RuPaul Songs.

Yeah, he was at the Soho House show. So oh that's fun. He's such a nice guy. It was thrilling. And Barbie Ferrara from Euphoria was there, Oh, excuse me right, rubbing elbows.

It was really thrilling. She was Yeah. I felt like a cool kid. And great Cosmos. I think Cosmo's my new drink. I had a great one at Elpenguino in New York. It needs to be a classy place. You don't want like, you don't want a bad Cosmo, but I like it to.

Be light pink like light. It should not be red.

It should not have so much cranberry juice in it, Like it's just that's a tarash baby.

Should be tart.

Yeah, pink and amazing and in thick, fucking beautiful glassware. And that's what this. I'm not a member of the Soho House. I was just performing. I am not that cool. She was the hired help. Yeah, there were just celebs happened to have been there. But the glass I love the Soho House glassware. It feels so special.

I went there one time and tried to take a picture of the view and I got in trouble.

I did it.

No one had told me that you're not allowed to take photos there, so I was like not taking a picture of a celebrity. I was truly like, oh, what a nice view, and they were like, no photos, and I was like, okay, thank you.

Now.

I feel uncomfortable the entire time.

But I saw a movie in their little screening room and it was cool.

It was cool.

They have like a deal for young members, like I think people that are like under thirty, and I went with people that were young, like young and this was years ago, but yeah, I think they're trying to like, you know, give a deal to young hottie so that they can fill the place up with people like that.

But creatives you have.

To be yeah, yea, yeah, no, I went with an actor and yeah, but I don't even know who Barbi Feriri is because I don't watch it. But I'm sorry, I don't watch Euphoria, so I don't know her character. But I just know who she is from Instagram and I'm like intimidated by her.

She is so so cool.

I actually did talk to her because I said, you know, not to be a creep, but I've been a fan of yours for years because years ago for Halloween, she dressed up as Isabella Rassollini from Death Becomes Her Oh amazing, and she had like the pin top and then partner was like, well that's a deep cut, and I'm like, I'm not a creep. I just love Halloween. Yeah and that movie.

Did you know her from something before Euphoria at all?

For being a model? Oh got it. I was like, she was a fashion girl model for a long time. Yeah, so I just have been following her career. But amazing. I'm taking my kids to drag Con this weekend. I know this is in the time machine, this will have passed by, but I just wanted to let Lisa know that, Yeah, bringing both of my children. I was able to score free tickets because you know, I still have one or two connects over at the old Wow.

And so I'm really excited. Did you have to get tickets for the kids?

They're free, but you do have to get tickets for them. And I just like was like, listen, don't make me pay. I'm gonna be in there for an hour and a half with two kids that could explode at any moment, Like, don't make me pay. Like, so, I got free tickets, and I'm excited. I'm gonna go see the queens, see the dolls, introduce them to my little nuggets, and we'll see who's there.

I'm really excited for the kids, and I've been telling to dress them up. I don't think to tell them.

I told Rosie, I said, we're gonna go to this like special thing and we're gonna see drag Queens. And she goes from Drag Race because she knows about the show Drag Race, because she's seen me watch it before. I don't think she knows what drag queens really are. But I do think she's just gonna be wowed by like the spectacle of it all. And I think she's gonna love if she sees any.

Guys butts, she'll be like booties, She's gonna love it.

Yeah, I don't know how kids don't.

That's why the people that are like, why are drag queens reading to kids? And it's like because they're full of glitter and color, like what are you talking about?

Yeah?

Or they're like no, or they're like no, can't get pride because it's a family event. And I'm like, Rosie doesn't know. You could like hand Rosie a double sided dildo and she'd be like, I'm gonna get you smell like you know, she's not.

It's not. That doesn't bother me, Like it's not. I don't know.

It's wild what people think is hurting their children. I think they'll all realize when their kids are addicted to oxy because they shame them for their entire lives. Okay, Wow, Dark Dark coming out coming out?

Strong? Hold on? You know what else? We were right?

We called out the Dirty Shirley before New York Magazine Day, So how cool is that?

And I know people say this, and.

Then I actually said this to someone in person and they're like, yeah, yeah, but I was Espressomartini before the craze, and I was Dirty Shirley before the craze, and I just know what's up, so sorry.

It is really funny though, how things come back around. Like I had to make espressomartinis all the time in two thousand and one when I worked as a bar as a waitress in Boston, and then they did totally like come back, or like Negronis came back like two summers ago.

Or I'm not a gin girl, no, I mean listen.

Somebody also wrote to us and was like dirty Shirley's all that sugar. I'm not suggesting anyone pound seven dirty Shirley's in a night like one or two. You really can't drink those all night or you will feel that show.

But I had a like I was hungover on Monday and I had to host that a show, and I just had a Shirley Temple to get the night started, just to like pump me up, taste delicious, like no one's saying it has to be your full even rocktail always.

And I wish I could drink espresso Martini's with you guys, because how fun to like be getting drunk but also getting like a little caffeine buzz.

And that I just don't like the taste.

But that's specific, like cosmos, Like you don't want it to be light and creamy. You want it to be super dark with foam on top, like I hate when it's if.

I so now I ask, Now, I go, is it light or dark? Before I order?

Well, we were at Portland having dinner before our show, and.

They made a weird thing.

They did bring you basically a nice coffee and a martini club.

But I had like some spices. I mean, I don't know. I was excited to get tipsy, I guess.

So that was all right.

Yeah, but oh, this is like not that new of a story about you know, we have talked about the guy who was being charged with murder because of a fitbit. His wife's fitbit provided evidence and he lied to authorities and they were able to prove it with the fitbit.

He has been convicted.

So he has been convicted of murder in Connecticut and the case was built on the evidence provided by the fitbit exercise.

I think I knew that that was in Connecticut when we first talked about it, vern in Connecticut.

Vernon, Connecticut. Wow, I'm not even positive where that is. That's that's wild. There's like so many random murders happening in Connecticut of wives lately. Also because in twenty nineteen, this woman with five children disappeared from my town and her husband definitely killed her because he tried to take his own life like a few weeks later and failed, I think.

And yeah, it's like the Jennifer Doulo's case.

There was like a huge article about it in Oh Gosh, Vanity Fair, I think, And uh oh no, he did die. He did die eventually, his suicide attempt didn't work for like a while, and then he was in the hospital and then he did die.

So he died too.

So now these kids have no kids because this man and it was like a crazy narcissist who had to kill his wife ex wife.

And yeah, they're from my town.

But luckily her family's very loaded and so her parents are going to take care of these children. And you know, small silver lining.

I think the Connecticut of it all just off basic stereotypes.

Is repressed living a lie.

Yeah about appearances, people that are like gay in the city, straight in the suburbs, totally like that kind of vibe and so I and why and not talking about feelings and I think that leads to murder. Yeah, just like dickhead finance people. Yeah, totally. It's You're right.

That is all the ingredients that are in Connecticut. It's like the secret family capital of the Northeast.

For sure. Secret family Capital is hysterical. Yeah.

I was just talking to someone not so much about lying, but like about lying, just like people that are so no shame will tree into hiring them even though they don't even have the skills, like the arrogant life.

Like.

I was just talking with our friend Sydney where sometimes she's like, I wish I was psycho like some of these people.

Yeah, sometimes you like look at the faked till you make it peap.

I wish I could just run in there and be like, oh yeah, I could do that and not be able to do it and be fine with that.

Yeah.

I actually would never want to be like that, but we were just talking about people.

I would think that that would give you an absolute ulcer to just know that you're like, well, everybody gets a little bit of imposter syndrome here and there, but like you truly are not qualified for the job that you're doing, and aren't you just so worried every day that someone's gonna bust you?

But I guess not. I guess part of it is like you have blinders to that shame.

But they also teach you that lie on your resume, fluff it up, lie in the interview, who gives a shit? And then you get the job and it's like, what the fuck are you doing here? You're actually affecting people's lives, So like, what are you doing? Yeah, you fucking grifter? I don't know, well, yeah.

I mean definitely there's a spectrum between like fluff up your res because I've definitely fluffed my resume a little bit, and you know, full fake like lying or saying you know, like fucking doctor Death, like somehow this man is able

Yeah.

And you just see people work and maneuver at these parties and the way they speak, and suddenly you're like, oh, you're like a calculated lunatic. Yeah, look at you work. This room, as our friends call it, shark eyes.

Yes, a bunch of shark eyed fucking freaks. All right, guys. In two days, on June ninth, we are going to be in San Francisco at Cobbs Comedy Club.

Help us sell this fucker out.

It's going to be so fun. We love San Francisco. We're really excited to meet you, guys. We have special tour merch. We're pumped. Please come. And then later in the month of June, on the nineteenth, we're going to be at the Minneapolis Comedy Festival.

Look, that's a four o'clock show.

Can easily brunch with your dad and then bounce to go to our four o'clock show and then be back with your dad whatever. I don't know what your dad obligations are. I know it's Father's Day, but just come see us. And then on the twentieth and the twenty first, we're going to be at Zany's Downtown in Chicago. One show per night, different shows. By the way, if you want to see us cover different episodes, do different games, everything like that, buy tickets to both nights.

I'm not going to stop you. And yeah, that's it, And.

Now get ready, this episode's about to blow your mind.

Wow, no pun intended. All right? Are doing Loss?

Season five, Episode four fifty four is my lucky number?

No big deal.

And I would say this is a truly iconic episode of television, change dest view forever. I don't know. I love this episode and I feel honored to be talking about it. So it opens up and it's a woman with blonde hair and leopard pants with a neong green shirt and blazer and she has a white mini poodle on with anna leash with a pink bow in the hair. So iconic start. The woman is like the younger version of the older woman in Something about Mary.

Yeah Magda okay?

So is that?

So she has that kind of vibe of like she.

Seems so familiar to me, and I looked her up and she's only been in like a couple of episodes of Law and Order at NSVU, and I'm like, I swear this woman's in movies.

And no, well it's like a type.

It's like what leach blonde hair, super tan, just like Cookie, you know, like with her dog.

Yeah.

And I also did do a rewatch recently on a plane of something about Mary and one of the detectives is named Detective Stabler. And but it's hard to research like why or maybe someone loved SVU or was this before or after.

Because or like because.

I was like, maybe there is an old timey detective Stabler in like a black and white movie we don't know about. But if you look up Stabler on Google, it's about Elliott Stabler.

I just did.

And I literally have never met a person with the last named Stabler in my life.

Yeah, so I was like, I'm not digging through all Elliot Stabler stuff to find if there's an elderly thing. But I didn't know if maybe Stabler is some Latin word that.

Means detective, Like who fucking knows.

I just thought the coincidence of having two detective Stablers is kind of wild. So she's doing baby talk with the dog and then pulls a bad girl move she leaves the dog shit.

But also who can blame her? No one wants to touch dog shit.

It's honestly like the worst grossest thing ever, but also a bitch move. Like dog shit on a cement is gross and it's worse than I'm grass. Like dog shit in the streets of Brooklyn is it's so unsightly. The thing is, I have dog sat and I didn't want to pick up the shit, and I've tried to pretend to be like, oh, I don't, and then someone caught me, like I it is a disgusting choice.

It's probably one of the main reasons I don't want a dog, like I just do not want to.

Pick up the shit. I know.

I have kids, but like at three years old, they're doing their own shit, you know, not at three you're still wiping the butt.

No, Rosie does. Rosie pretty much does it herself. She's wiping her own ass. Yeah, that's pretty wild.

If she needs help, I'm like, I might do like a quick like you know, backup wipe, but it's not I'm not touching shit, you know.

No, I would baby sat people way older than Rosie that just like fully bend over and I have to wipe their butts, And it's.

Like, maybe's that's for a five year old? Who goes, can you come in and pull it out? And I was like, I texted as mom, she goes, you don't have to do that. I go, yeah, I mean I wasn't going to, but I just he to just see like is this normal practice?

That's disgusting?

Yeah, it's gross, but anyway, I know I don't like the feeling of like putting your hand in the bag and touching like warm poop on a dog.

No, and our friends the choices.

I've dogs sat their dog Chevy, who has the most giant shits I've ever.

Seen, Like Chevy's a turbo shitter.

It is like so giant, I don't know, but a little dog maybe a little Pomeranian. Anyways, this dog's name is Tootsi, so that's cute and TUTSI loves garbage and she starts digging in the trash and her owner's like, ew, you're better than that, but then goes, oh my god, a fur coat. Okay, Tootsy, and she's about to steal this fur coat out of the trash, but little does she know she's in the opening of an episode of svo So sorry, lady, there is a dead woman underneath

It seems hard to take care of.

But I hugged someone yesterday that was in a tan swayed jacket and it felt nice. Yeah, it's like a nice material for all those swede heads out there. So the victim hasn't even been dead for twelve hours. There's no stabber gun shot wounds. There's trauma just to the left side of the face and torso, which means that she was beaten to death, which is fucked up, Like how hard. Do you have to beat someone to kill them? Like that is the yeah, very sopranos.

So there are.

Fluids and she was moved post mortem, so this is not the place of the murder. Stabler with his Sonny is like halfway down his nose like very they had. Like the shape of this unglasses isn't like full American flag twitter guy, but not not that like not a great shape of glasses.

It's also like David Caruso in CSI, like he was always whipping his glasses off.

And shit, yeah, it has not a good thing. And he like you, he goes dump job, but why here? And it's like, just stop using that word. I don't know, it's so disrespectful. So while Benson and Stabler pass theories back and forth, Melinda is digging something out of the victim's mouth. And what we find out is the killer cut the tongue out of the mouth, so that's obviously a message, and but the tongue is nowhere to be found. So Melinda goes, I would check that dog, and then it cuts into credit.

He totally ate that tongue.

We cut back from the credits to a landlord who has all the scoop Olivia is pretty and nice, but he didn't really know her. She lived there two years, paid on time, and that's it. He thought she was illegal. But then he believes that the whole country was founded on illegals, so who is he to judge? And you can't argue with that. But then he's like, so on it. He's just like Puerto Rican Mexican. I can't tell the difference, and I just I like, I like this guy's honesty.

His opinions are out.

He loves illegals, but he doesn't know exactly where they're from. We get a glimpse of Ice in his full puffy ponytail era. So him and Munch get from the apartment like she wasn't home very much. The apartment's very empty. And then the landlord's like, oh god, I got a leaky pipe to fix. And that is the biggest piece of fiction I've ever seen on SVU. A landlord running to fix the pipe. That's when when when is he leaving to rush to actually do a job and not

Like what was it? Did he have the bullet from the JFK shooting? Like what is Munch collecting?

But Munch does find something in the drawer and it's a plane ticket from Miami the day she died, So that's, you know something. Ice also pulls up Benson and is like, damn, look at all this designer stuff. This is where she spent her money. And then he calls it ho gear, which I love. And you know, Ice or Finn loves a strip club, so we know that he's well versed in ho gear. I think he says ho gear with love. Oh yeah, I'm not in himselt at all. Yeah, with love yes. Oh no, He goes, wow, look at this

Because things are fishy.

Sabler says there's no action on that social until two thousand and one. The license she has is from two thousand and one. She has no relatives. It's like she appeared out of thin air and they have already checked all the witness protection stuff.

There's nothing there.

So Munch goes, listen, I know I'm the resident kook, but what if it's a spook? Love the rhyming and that means spy for those who don't know, And Craigan suggests hitting up the CIA to see what's up. But first we got to stop at the morgue and Melinda says that the talk screen came back positive of cocaine, but there was a necklace caught in her hair and it's of what we're gonna find out later. It's not this, but it looks like a mother Mary Baby Jesus smoke. Okay,

So maybe she was a.

Dealer, but they don't understand how she could be a dealer because it didn't look like she had wealth or drugs, so you know, they don't know. So the detectives go outside and Staler shows us why he makes the big bucks. He notices a Chevy Caprice with two white males that has been following them, so the detectives start running towards the car as it speeds off.

So Benson's like, what the hell is this?

And they're yelling and they're both kind of breathing heavy and Stabler is another smart idea. He's like, oh, fuck, this is a hooker with a soul that sounds like someone's sister Peg would want to say, And so he is right on the money.

They head, you know, towards sister.

Peg, and she says she's never seen the girl, but agrees to ask all her girls if they recognize her. And she's unloading boxes and boxes of dental dams, and she goes, they're flying off the shelves, and I just like, are johns paying to go down on women? Like I just like, I just don't understand. I don't I don't under I don't believe this. I don't believe that all of these johns are just obsessed with dental damn work, Like I don't know. I know that is very observant

Olivia the victim. Why they name her Olivia? Yeah? Do they not know?

We have a recap podcast, like what is going on here? So, but she did come to the church for about two years, but was very secretive and he begged her to come to confession, but she said after her work was done, but didn't say what kind of work, but he got the feeling that she was rich. She donated all of her furniture once and it was picked up in a giant shipping container. So then they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, do you know where the storage tell us all about

They open it up and there's a ton of stuff.

So they start rifling through all the stuff and they find nineteen ninety nine taxes and photos, but they're all filed under a different last name and social Stabler in a box label two thousand and one, finds a.

Badge she was a cop.

Dunt dun and boom and walks some suit boys and Stabler calls them rats, and they're the guys who've been.

Tailing them, and they are DEA. One is really hot and one is less hot. They agree to a sit down. The DEA guys walk into Craigan's office and He's like, what the fuck, why are you tailing my detectives?

And they're like and.

They are being reasonable, like we just needed to make sure you weren't the bad guys, like we just had to make sure everything was good, and they were. The DEA was actually notified when Olivia's Prince went into the system. But they didn't realize that she was dead, and the hot man does look down and sad at the news of the death of their coworker. We don't know yet, nobody knows why she was killed, but the tongue was cut out, so obviously there's more to it. Craigan is like, boys,

What we can do is we can investigate the murder of a.

Hooker dating a drug dealer, and nobody needs to hear about any undercover job or dea like deal deal. Yes, we all want that, and they're like and not a word to your ADA, and it's like okay, okay, Like I just don't get why these dorks don't realize that they're all on the same side, Like I don't Benson and Stabler and Craigan aren't trying to protect.

These bad guys, you know.

But then the DEA says they're not going to help with anything, and they're just like good luck out there, and it's like okay, thanks, Like don't what what what is this?

It's just it's so weird how all these different agencies are always like fighting against each other, and it's like, why can't you all work together?

I don't, you know, because they all want the credit. So Craigan rounds up the main crew, Ice, Benson, Stabler, and Munch. Anything happens in that room stays in the room. They're going in their own separate room, and they know they have to keep the super secret for the safety.

Of everyone, so they start working.

But Ice is superne nervous because he knows all about the Columbian drug dealers from his days in our so.

He's like, are we sure? Are we sure? Guys?

But we get a run down on Olivia and she went to Hudson. You an alum, so pretty thrilling. She's used to being sexually assaulted.

I'm sure how you get in.

They sent Ice to talk to an old pal from narcotics. They meet at a cemetery and the guy has flowers in hand and is like okay, deep throat vibes, and Ice is like, any better ideas and the guy goes, yeah, stay away from me, stay away from his case, like drop it.

But he does give some information.

He says the name of the main like the major players, Caesar Villaes, and he supplies ten percent of cocaine that comes into the US, and he has a lot of cousins that help him do things in New York and he's actually in Colombia, but the US is trying to extradite his ass right now for killing a judge and an informant. So he's a big time criminal. And I wonder if this was like a random cemetery that they went and put flowers on a random plot, or maybe they do have a mutual friend that has died and

I doesn't care. Wait, do you watch the Miami Housewives? I don't.

I mean I watched a little bit when it was first on, so I kind of know who, like Maris saul Is or whatever, but I don't really watch.

So I don't either.

But while I was staying with our friend Julia New York, it was on and we just been watched some episodes and there is so one of the wives is married to Martina Narrativalova. I can't even say her last name, and she's I feel like she's one of mine from the block but cannot even say her last name. But so her wife used to be married to a giant, huge Russian mob type guy who had their child murdered.

He like in.

Plantina, Navratilova's wife was married to a Russian guy who had their kid murdered.

Yeah, he like brought a special opsin nanny who shook the baby to death. Why he didn't want to have a baby or like to disconnect and she had married someone else or it was revenge, Like I have no idea, but she has like a murdered child from her husband who is in the mob, so in.

Front of even get out alive Jesus.

Yeah, and she talks about there's like a lot the Miami Housewives are very open and cool about a lot of their lives.

People say it's great, I should watch it. I just I haven't gotten into like the peacock of it all.

So yeah, it's just like scary.

Mobsters are scary, is what we've learned in all of this. Or you've probably know that, but maybe you didn't know that the mob goes into the housewives and that's pretty interesting.

I mean I did from Jersey a little bit because I remember like actually talking about all this, like her tongue getting cut off, Like I forgot that, Like I haven't watched a lot of mob movies, and I forgot that like when the mob kills people, like a lot of times, there's like a message like so the tongue is like you talk to keep your mouth shut or whatever. But like I remember, I was at a bar in New York once and I met this guy who like

Well, and I don't want to reveal to my about people's lives that are on our own, but we know a comedian whose father was found murdered in the Brownstone parking lot. So yes, yes, there's a lot of I guess, yeah, a lot of mob in the house and crimes.

It's just interesting to me when you say that that this woman was able to a get away from this mobster and then also get married to a very high profile person and be on.

A TV show.

Yeah, yeah, you're you know, and not feel like she kind of has like a target on her back. That's like, you know, maybe maybe she made a deal with him or something whatever.

Who fucking knows, Maybe she's got something on him.

So we're back in. So now we're at interrogation. I did not listen to the warnings at all. He went and got the informant. The informant is Felix and if you watch the wire, this is Bubbles from the wire and he's in a fake Adida's red jumpsuit.

There's not three stripes, there is two.

He is.

Wait, what was Karen Huger's fake Fendy? Do you remember that?

I don't remember that one because that was before I joined Photomac.

So they're playing, you know, who has more leverage? What's going on? There's a dance and game, there's a generic soda can, and finally they show a photo of the victim, Olivia, and he calls her a cream puff because that's what Rafael calls her, and so what does that mean? And Munch is like, who is Rafael, Like, we don't know your friend group, and it's Zapata. So it's Rafael Zapata and he is a lieutenant for this for Caesar Valaise.

I don't know.

It's like I'm blaming the victim. I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. You can't, you can't do that.

Also, yeah, it's probably coke dick, like he should just stop using his own supply.

I know.

But if you're if someone is second command in the mob, like oh yeah, you can't. You cannot talk about his impotence like you cannot reeah.

Rule of culture number for.

Fifty second last culture is so style, do not talk about a drug lord's impotent dick in front of his friends, Like you will be murdered.

At all, I would say, even in private.

Yeah.

Yeah, so we get picks, we get a group meeting. So Zappod has been arrested twice but never indicted because someone always came forward and confessed to the crimes, and Munch says, yeah, it's probably someone with family back in Columbia. So it's like do what you're told or your family gets it. And so that really sucks for people. God just don't get involved with the mob. Being poor sucks. Life is terrible. How do we go on with our world?

So now we have to tie him to the murder.

They were both on the same flight from Miami to New York, so that might be a clue. And they also went to a cafe, so let's go to the cafe and see if anyone has remembered them, because they spent four thousand dollars that day and a lot of it was at that cafe. So they head on over and they speak to front of house manager, kind of guy, suit and tie, about Zapata and he just looks straight forward, no emotion, and goes, I'm sorry, I don't know that person.

And he walks away.

And I respect this motherfucker, like, get the fuck away from me. I know what I'm dealing with, and you are not put me in jail. So they're gonna leave him alone, which is rare. Usually they bully witnesses that don't want to help, but they leave him be, which is wild, and then they're like deciding. They're like, well, we can't tell if he was paid off or scared, and it's like he looked very scared to me. Your detective senses are off, Like this man is terrified for

Thank you, I mean, and we find out about this boat.

Benson refers to it as a love boat, and it is parked in Battery Park. Are there yachts in Battery Park? I didn't really go down that far downtown very often.

I guess I didn't really go.

I've been down there to like a playground, I guess when I babysat, but like not really to the watery part.

I guess probably. I don't know.

Yeah, like I've taken the Staten Island Ferry and that's pretty low downtown. But like, I don't know if I've ever seen like yachts, so.

Other boats like tied up.

Yeah, like I only have at the seventy ninth Street boat basin, So I don't really know where people keep their boat.

We're like on the other side the west side, there's boats. But whatever I mean, if if you have a boat, let us know, we'll meet you there. Okay, we'll grab dian Neil and we will show up.

We will be on your boat.

That's actually a good way to get on a boat. Be like, we will bring dian Neil if you let us on your boat. So if you're in the New York Jersey tri state area and you have a boat, this is a deal that can be made.

Yes, hit us.

Diane doesn't know about it yet, but we are using her as leverage.

Now back to this Ada.

It's Cabot and she already starts making jokes about how tiny's the pot is dick is because of the size of the boat. So this guy's dick can't get a break. Now, remember they can't tell Cabot what's up. They promised the Dea that they would not tell the Ada. So they're just focusing on the murder. And they say that the glass comes from a yacht. But Alex is pushing like, how do you know? They say an informant. She goes, but how do I know it's reliable? They go, it's reliable,

Okay.

Anyways, so now bam, they are busting a party on the boat.

Good music, lots of drinks.

There's flutes, like I'm not flutes, the instrument like flut flutes.

Yeah, it's like flutes.

Now that Lizzo's brought flutes to the main front.

It's tough.

A lot of tube tops, summer skirts, and our duo is in bulletproof vests, looking very sexual. Everyone's hands are up and Stabler yells for Zapata, who walks down in a light colored suit, windy step style, calm as hell, and he goes, I am Rafael's Zapata and Ben's I honestly didn't even have to rewatch this episode to write this line by line, like that is how much I fucking love it?

Yeah?

Yeah, So Benson serves him a warrant. He says, I have nothing to hide. Stabler says, are you sure about that? And Zapota responds, law enforcement always look through my shit and they never find anything. And then one of my favorite lines in the series, Stabler says, well, this time you don't know what we're looking for.

That's good. I think that's good.

Benson is pulling sheets off a bed and it's like, you smell bleach. It's bleach. And it's also like, you're rich enough to have a whole fucking yacht. Aren't you rich enough to get a new mattress? Like yeah, why would you clean a mattress? Like you're a fucking millionaire, maybe even billionaire, and if I'm thinking about your assets, it's like it's a blood soaked mattress, Like why would you clean it? Throw it in the throw it in

I like this, Oh you like that? Yeah?

Or maybe once one of us gets a new mattress, we should just like for fun, ripper mattresses apart with knives, like I does. I want to know what that feels like and if it's as easy as Benson makes it look. And so there is blood inside of the mattress. So they go to arrest his ass for murder and he is shook. He said, you are making a very big mistake. And Benson is like, you don't even know how many mistakes you've made.

Oh God.

So it's time for court, and of course he has the slimiest of attorneys, Cindy Lapper's real life husband, David Thorton aka Lionel Granger. And I'll never forget when I posted a photo of Linel and I was.

Like, married to Cindy Lauper, Oh my god.

And someone goes, that is not his name, and I'd be like, yeah, no, we know. I just have an SVU podcast. And then she deleted all her comments and I was like, but I I do love someone being such a favorite favorite.

What is it like fervant?

Such a fervent David Thornton fan to get so mad at me that I called him Lionel Granger but didn't know his character name, but like, how dare you? And I was like, you're wrong, bitch, Okay, I'm right.

And it's like if you know his career so well, you know he's Lionel Granger.

I know it was funny, but I love when people are aggressive. Then quickly delete. Yeah, but Petrovsky is the judge like, are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me? The Stellar group in court?

This is if this was a draft pick of what I needed in court, this would be all number ones here. These are all number one draft picks in terms of courtroom scenes and acting skills. So of course Cabot wants remand and Lionel is being dramatic and it's like, I'll give you his passport. He's a family man and respected business guy, and it's like, lol, we can't let him out. He has personal airstrips, like he owns private planes and airstrips all over the world.

There's no way we're letting him out. And you know how, like with.

Josh Pays and Nikki Stain and like like with Pip A. Cox, we found their life story, Like, we got to learn about their backstory. I need an episode with Lionel Granger, Like I want to know more about his life. I need him back on the show and I need a backstory.

Well yeah, because you got to assume if he is a lawyer, for like.

The car tells like, that's he doesn't need to be defending anyone else.

He's getting paid a lot.

We don't need to ever see him defending another rapist, do you know what I mean?

Like, and there's a target on his back.

For sure, if he fucks up at all, Like that's crazy to take on those people as clients.

Yeah, if you're listening or casting, sweetheart, I just I think we need some Granger backstory.

He goes home and the lawyer's married to Cindy Lauper. Anyway.

Granger is like, stop hating on the rich just because he's rich. He's bad, he has a clean record, and Petrovsky goes, Okay, shut up, I'm so. Petrofsky sets bail at five million dollars and wants his passport gavel bang bang, and Cabot stops Granger and is like, so's the PoTA still has you on retainer. I see that explains a three thousand dollars suit. How'd you get the blood out? And he says, my wife bought me this suit. Okay, who is your wife?

Again? We'd like the backstory.

Who is your wife? He says, Hey, everyone deserves a defense, and Alex responds, I would believe your idealism if you weren't enjoying yourself so much. And he says, I'm just naturally a happy person. I mean, I love him, I love him so much. But he pays a dominatrix for sure. He then hands her blue papers and is trying to get the search weren't thrown out, and she goes, excuse me, and then he goes and I will enjoy this.

Oh god, this is the best episode.

And now they're in chambers with Petrowski and Granger is arguing that he wants to vet the informant and how do we know if it's a credible person, and he's like, just produce the informant and prove what you know that he's legit and easy psy and Cabot's like, listen, there's a Goggins case and it's the if it's like, for the safety of the informant or to keep the information flowing, we have to keep it a secret. And Line was like, yeah,

Reliable informant or not.

Alex tries to convince Bennettson and Stabler now at the precinct, like we need this guy, and they'll go, no, bitch, you're not getting him. No one is going to chambers like people can get killed, and Cabot's like, who the fuck is this? But they get through, and now they're at the DEA offices and Cabot is meeting the hottie and he's like, did anyone follow you? And she's like I don't know, and he's stressed out. He's looking at the blinds. He's like, I'm not doing shit for you.

Yeah. God.

So then he goes, you really don't get this, Like you don't know anything, do you? And she and so now she runs to talk to her mentor, Fred Thompson, and he's like, so the detectives put you in this pickle, huh, And she defends her detectives and he goes, listen, I don't care, I don't need that. We just got to find a way out of this, and she's like it'll be being bad quick style, don't worry, and it's like you can't again, like everyone is pressed, even Fred Thompson.

Yeah, he is scary. And now we're at.

A walk and talk with Alex and the detectives. See this is the thing on alease, Like you went and watched forty one Witnesses, doesn't this make you want to watch this one? Like I'm like, this is yes, yes, this is like so fucking good. And now we're at a walk and talk with Alex and the detectives and they are discussing all the options and she's like, yes, I know, it's all bad options, and we have to pick one of the bad options.

I don't know what to tell you.

And it's a cool overhead shot and it follows them up as they walk up the stairs in the middle of the priestinct.

So it's very great directions.

So of course I looked it up and it's a man named Constantine Macris. He has done twenty six episodes of SVU, ten episodes of Orange Is the New Black, and a whopping sixty three lawn order. OG's amongst other things. So he's had a very great career in television. Great job, Constantine.

I think one of our actors that we interviewed mentioned him as well.

Yeah, he is talented because all the scenes are very hard to direct. I feel like what they did with the boat and the fighting around the table, like he this is a skilled guy. So Alex Cabot's cell phone rings fuck X PARTA meeting is going down in chambers.

Oh, you know how we love an ex party meeting. I know.

I was just thinking in my head maybe the tattoo I get is ex partey, but no one's gonna know what that means.

I can't just get X Parte on my arm, but we should do.

Anyone who has ideas for me that are not basic, do not send me. Why don't you get a heart? That says Benson. No, that's not what I'm gay. But X Party, I think is like people in the legal profession might be like, why is why do you want that? What's going on? It's kind of like with my who's the my chip girl?

Oh? Oh the uts girl? The uts Yeah.

Whenever people are like, oh you're from Maryland, I go no, They're like, why do you have her, and it's like, I like uts, I don't love I like the girl I picked. I picked her off a wall. I go, oh my god, I do love her. Oh you just like the girl. But do you like the chips?

The chips are good?

I mean I will, I will get them because she's on it, and I love like the barbecue. She has an orange bow like I like that. They color code her outfit to the bag of chip. But people want more meaning behind it. They're like, oh, Maryland, No, not at all. I was just lived near a tattoo shop and she was cute and in New York. What's awesome is you saw the trucks all the time, so I would see her like.

Yeah, yeah, but that was like my go to bag of chips at my boudeiga.

I fucking love uts so much. They're so salty and delicious, and that's good to know.

Maybe I'll get you a big cheese puff thing for a birthday.

Oh, a big bin.

So But yeah, so I can't just get random eagle, Like what do I get? And I love Petrovsky like that seems specked up too. Maybe I do just get a Petrofsky.

She'll definitely do the pod then if we send her a picture.

Yeah, so she is or fishing expedition, Like do I get a fish and hook?

That says fishing expedition, Like I don't.

Think I get like iced tea with a shark body or something like that.

What was that idea? I don't know.

So she's but Alex is scared about this ex party meeting and she knows like this isn't good.

This is some this isn't good.

So in the meeting there's the DA and the d o J, and it's a lot of you know, whites and ties. And so the Department of Justice guy has been in four total SVU episodes in all different characters. And I think he's the guy that is Miranda Priestley's husband or no, he's the head of Vogue Publishing in Devilwar's product.

Yeah, so this guy is Yep, the husband's in a differentness for you. Okay.

So so the DOJ guy he hands Alex a document stating that Petrofsky is barred from subpoenaing a federal agent because it would fuck with an ongoing investigation and nothing can be done.

The search is out.

Nobody is happy and Petrofsky's going to take it out on mister Riley from the DOJ and says, and I never want to see this many lawyers in my chambers again. So next time, leave the dog and ponies show at home, he says, he understands. Everyone leaves, and now it's a states rights issue. And Alex and the detectives are bitching in the hallways and the hotty Dea arrives with bad, bad news.

There's a threat.

They're like, who gives a shit, and no, the threats against you, Cabot, and we need to protect Cabot at all costs. And so they're now in an office listening to a rape recorder. Do you think Google docs just changed it? Because I rather like she probably meant yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that stays in. That stays in for sure, and they're yeah.

So they're listening to a tape recorder and it's inmates and they're chatting and this only happened like six hours ago, and they confirm Cabot's address. They know where she lives, they know when she gets home, they know when she jogs, they know her mother's address.

And she's like, how do they know this? And it's like, we've.

Been warning you her danger girl, like everyone's been warning you all fucking night. And again he's like, have you noticed people following you or taping your shit? And Benson's like, well, obviously protective detail now armed guards, there's federal marshals on her at all times. Security is high, home, office, everywhere. But Cabot's pulling up Benson being being like, no, I want to go home, now, shut up. So the dea Hotty goes out and says, don't worry. We'll find the

I think because you've watched the episode and we find out later that he is.

No, I they he only says he has kids at the end, Oh that's true, right, No, because I thought the same thing, and exactly this is what happened to me in Pittsburgh. I kept going, so, you guys have kids,

Suggests to sleepover.

Then boom, dea guy's car fully explodes fire. He's dead. Fuck right when we started to like him. Finally they realize, wow, this is serious. Yeah, finally, So there's a commercial break. Obviously a man just got car exploded, and we're back from the break in a bustling crime scene and they zoom in on Alex, cut up, stressed out face and she's wrapped in a blanket, and you know there's trauma

Are you kidding me? He had two kids? Did you know that? So that's really sad. Benson says, knock it off, and he does not knock it off. He goes, you were careless, you wouldn't listen. Well, do you get it now?

And Stabler says enough and Stabler that then turns to Alex and says, we're taking you off this case.

And the DEA guy is like, you have no case.

It blew up with Donovan and walks away and he's obviously grieving like he's pissed. So I excuse all of his behavior, and I think Alex Cabbitt deserves being yelled at. Sorry, But like, also, if you're Dea and you're working against these guys, don't you have to have like a bomb sniffing dog check out your car every fucking time you get in it or something like that.

This is their main thing. They love to blow up fucking cars.

Like I would never be able to get in my car and turn the key if I was this guy.

These guys.

Yeah, Oh, and we know Alex's cabot though, so like we know she's not gonna step down.

She fucking went to the congo, you know what I.

Mean, Like like we're gonna get this guy's ass. So we're back at the precincte and it's all hands on deck figuring out how, you know, what are we going to do next? Alex says, how do they know Donovan was connected? And it's like, well, you were at his office, so what are you talking about. Munch says they have money and power, that's all you really need to do anything. And of course Alex says, she's not backing down and has protection and it's chill, and Benson's like, Alex, you

And I noticed this. She had pearl study ear rings. Cute.

Intimidation is always there, whether it's me or the next person in the office. And they agree with her, and they go, Okay, let's get to work and let's drag everyone from the boat in because someone knows something. And Craigan asks to speak to her privately, and in the office he's like, I know you wouldn't let this die. So he gives her his old gun and got her a permit, like rushed for the gun. So then Craigan gets a call and he tells Cabot, the boss is

Is this true?

We'll find out from Kara, But to imagine, like a job you did thirty years ago and you still need protection every single day. And how much money and witness protection goes into like this drug trade that the American government benefits from.

I'm betting. I don't God, I hate everything.

Legalize drugs, Legalize all drugs, all of them.

Like what are we talking about?

So yeah, so, like the rest of their lives is truly on edge forever because they stood up to the cartel who only cares about keeping their business afloat. And she says, that's why we got to fight them, and he's like, girl, we've been fighting them since before you were born.

And we're dropping the case.

The Feds have a better case against him than we would ever have, so give it to them. There's too many people who have already died. And she's sad about this, but they understand. So they're back at trial and the case is dropped. So Granger and Zapata seem very very proud, and Zapada slowly walks out of the courtroom as the US Marshals come in to arrest him and he is being charged with the murder of a federal agent. He gives dirty looks to Alex while he's slowly being walked

How to kill every rat? Ever?

Like why would you give why would you give up the main boss? This seems shocking to me, but I guess he does think he has so many assets that he could be able to get away.

But like I, this this is where the show. I don't, uh, you're dead if you do that, Like you're dead? You do you would give up somebody underneath you?

Or something like why wouldn't you just stay in prison and get idos?

I don't understand at all.

So anyways, but if this all goes down the way they hope, they can arrest Valais and begin extradition processes. And so Alex asks what does Zapata get for his troubles reduce sentence in a new identity?

Finn guesses.

Munch and Finn leave and then Craigan, on her threesome, is left with a pretty full picture of beer.

So they're at a bar.

We had a good run Stabler says, and like we had to get screwed sometime. It happens, and Benson adds Valez can do more damage to Zapota now than the justice system ever could. So even Benson's like, don't worry, Valz is gonna kill this motherfucker. And you know, Alex is getting all existential and she's just like it never seems like enough.

She's sick of what happens with.

The victims, and even when we win, we don't and they all leave the bar and she's like, I'll walk and it's like you cannot walk?

Does the trauma leave this fast?

And then oh no, a black suv comes and shoots cabin bang bang. She's knocked the fuck out out cold. Stabler tries to run after the suv. It does not work. Benson's like, okay, it's okay, Alex, You'll be okay. And blood is rushing out of Alex's cabot. It is not looking good. Nobody called a bus though, so that's not by the book. Now it's October first, and we're at the squad room and they're all so sad.

Munch is not talking strange.

Everyone's on the verge of tears, finn Head is in his hands, Stabler is staring off and then it pans down to what he's looking at and it's the New York Ledger and it says no leads on slain Ada, and it's a giant pick of cabot. Cragan walks out of his office and is just talking straight business about other cases and bitching about other Adas sucking at their jobs. Craigan says the potter was found dead in a cell, but also, yeah, dumb. So there goes Vellez's extradition and

A real pain in the ass this one.

And out of the black suv is cabin she's alive in a ponytail.

Oh, it's so good.

She says, I'm sorry about all of this, and Benson starts crying, Oh my god, she's such a good actress.

And she mutters, your funeral is tomorrow.

And the DEA guy says yes, and you're both expected to be there. And she is going to win and to witness protection until Veales is extradited or dealt with in some other way, and they don't know for how long, and they're just like on the move. She has a sling on her arm, and so it was a real blood and it was a real shooting that she had survived, because I think all along I did think this was a fake shooting, and like, how did they plan this

Damn, and she goes to fucking Wisconsin. Well, thank you, Lisa. That was a recap of a classic, and we will be right back with the true crime of it all.

All right, Cara, I'm so excited. I actually don't know anything about Like I know they're bad, but this I've seen the movie blow Babously. I gave my first blow job during that movie, so on the nose, so on the and then his sister walked in on us. But I stay away from this genre of filmmaking. A scarface maybe I've seen, but like, I stay away from this genre.

So I'm really thank you for doing the research. I really didn't want to. So yeah, no, that's fine. Yeah, I definitely am the same.

Like this episode is, of course, if you haven't figured it out, is based on Pablo Escobar and the Colombian cartels, and I've, like I said, I've obviously heard of Escobar. Who hasn't, but I don't watch narcos, Like I don't know the whole story. So I was happy to actually kind of dig into this and learn a little bit more about him because.

I didn't even know if he was still alive or not.

But he was a Colombian drug kingpin known as the King of Cocaine, who was the founder and leader of the Median Cartel. So Median is a city in Colombia and also the subject of a movie that Vinnie Chase tries to make and then eventually stars in an Entourage that bombs. So if you've heard that before and you're like a person that watched Entourage, that's that. So Escobar was raised in Mediine, one of seven kids, and started

And he eventually became.

Like a bodyguard and a thief, like he'd kidnap people for ransom, and then eventually he got into the drug trade and he did become I think still today the wealthiest criminal of all time, Like he amassed thirty billion dollars and in his time, which is equivalent to sixty four billion dollars today, So pretty lucrative work for him. So he's described as a drug lord and a narco terrorist, And when I looked up narco terrorist, it does have

It was beautiful.

So in May of nineteen seventy six, Escobar and several of his men were arrested and found in possession of eighteen kilos of white paste that's about thirty nine pounds, and that's a coca paste that was usually purchased in Bolivia, Peru or Ecuador and then smuggled into the US. Escobar attempted to bribe the judges who were building a case, but it didn't work, and then after months of legal back and forth, Escobar just got the two arresting officers

So in the United States, these hippos are considered people.

And what I was reading in the article is like, yeah, but Columbia doesn't have to listen to us, Like so it's like a gesture that, oh, these animals are people. Like in our country. We think they're people, Please don't kill them, and Colombia's like, yeah, but it's our country, so we're.

Gonna do whatever we want.

So I believe that they began that they began to start sterilizing the hippos. Hopefully no hippos were killed, but anyway, they're called the cocaine hippos. I think people think it's like hippos ripping lines of cocaine and flying around town.

No.

I definitely thought it was a bunch of hippos that were on coke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, They're just called the cocain hippos because I think that's how they were paid for and like they're Escobar's hippos.

So anyway, hopefully.

They are just you know, barren and living in Colombia having happy lives. But Hacienda Napolis is where Escobar sort of stunted on his fortune.

It's where he showed off all his wealth.

He had huge classic car collection and bikes, a go kart, racetrack, et cetera. But his pride and joy was this replica of a Piper Pa eighteen supercub airplane, which was the small plane that transported his very first shipment of cocaine to the US. So he has a replica of Baby's first airplane up there, Baby's.

First sentimental guy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So today Wildly.

Hacienda Napolis is a family friendly theme park with water attractions and a wildlife sanctuary, a butterfly farm, museums, so go check it out. And many people definitely were brutally murdered there. So sounds fun. But back to his crimes. It is alleged that Escobar back to the nineteen eighty five storming of the Colombian Supreme Court by left wing gorillas from the nineteenth of April Movement also known as

It's just not even that good of a drug like that.

I know.

It's shocking to me, Like all other drugs are so fun. I don't know, but like coke just sucks to me. I've never had fun on coke. I agree, coming I will, so I think us. I think it affects people differently because I have friends that are like, I'm having the best time when they're on coke, and it just does not do it for me. I'm like, okay, now at seven am and I'm awake and I'm listening to somebody randomly go on and on about like Quentin Tarantino.

This is not fun for me, you know.

Like and it's just this drip and it doesn't taste. It's just yeah, I've never understood.

And it's like, so how many tons.

Fifteen tons a day? Like the numbers are wild. But his brother Roberto was his accountant and later wrote a book chronicling his time in the cartel, and there's some fun info in the book, like they also spent one thousand dollars a week on rubber bands just to wrap the stacks of cash, Like.

Can you imagine like that much money on rubber bands.

And then they also had to write off a percentage of the cash, like in their books, because the cash would be get eaten by rats, Like rats would eat some of the money and they'd be like, well, okay, ten percent just gone to rat food. So anyway, as Escobar's fortune and fame grew, you know, he really wanted to be seen as a leader, and so he set himself he tried to set himself up as like a Robin Hood figure where he was like I'm rags to riches, I'm here to help the poor and a lot of

I mean, the cartels in their fight with the amongst each.

Other too, because there's another cartel called the Cali Cartel, and the cartels are always struggling for who's going to be the top dog. It resulted in a lot of violence and Colombia quickly becoming the world's murder capital. In ninety one, they had more than twenty five thousand violent deaths in the country, and in ninety two it was over twenty seven thousand. So the increased murder rate was also fueled by Escobar just giving money to his hitmen

Yeah, because also, like I do like that he was helping the poor and building all these things. But what goes through my head is like, then does he lorded over people to do weird favors or it's like, well, you took this money and now you have to do this for me, right, murder your whole family? Like I still don't trust him fully, all right, but maybe he is a hero and I just don't know about it. Well.

But it's also like remember the episode we just did, oh well, we just did this on one of our live shows in wet where there's like colon now is like buying all these gymnasiums, And it's like, yeah, because you don't want people to pay attention to the fact that you're selling soda. That's like turning kids obese, you know, It's like it's pr I don't know if he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart, you know, maybe he's doing it, so he has like a lot

So he's a very very scary person.

And to pull right from the episode where they say that line, these guys, would you know, bomb a jetliner just to get rid of one person, One of Escobar's main hit men did exactly that. One of his top assassins blew up a commercial airliner because he thought two informants were on board. It was twenty nine year old Don Dani Munos Mosquera, and he was one of the

I don't know.

So after his death, the cocaine market was taken over by a rival cartel called the Cali Cartel until the nineties mid nineties, when its leaders were either killed or captured by the Colombian government. And a lot of people do remember the Robinhood thing about Escobar, especially poor people. He was deeply mourned by people, and over twenty five thousand people went to his funeral.

That's pretty huge.

So a lot of these people think that he was a saint and they prayed to him for receiving divine help. Meanwhile, his wife and his two kids fled Columbia after no one would grant them asylum, and after they went to Mozambique, then Brazil, they finally settled in Argentina. And then this like reminded me of like a reality show that I'd love to see. His widow became a successful real estate entrepreneur until one of her business associates discovered who she was, and so she booked.

It out of there with all of her money.

But then eventually she was imprisoned for eighteen months while her finances were investigated in Argentina, but they couldn't link to anything illegal, so she was let go and she continues to live in Buenos Aires with her son and daughter. Her son and daughter have also both denounced their father's activities, and you know, like the son changed his name the wife.

Wives, like all of them.

It was like, look at Maria, Look how she never talks back, Look at how she stands by him, blah blah blah. So just an interesting you know, look at how women are treated in these situations, cause I think sometimes we see in these TV shows, you know, the women can say, oh, your dick doesn't work, or the women can like get away with saying more shit.

But it seems like her way to stay alive was to just.

Never ever talk back and to be a dutiful wife. And so I did read that she stayed in Buenos Aires with her son and daughter, and that in June of twenty eighteen, a federal judge and Argentina accused her and her son, Sebastian marro Ken of money laundering with Colombian drug traffickers, which would be wild if they were like openly denouncing Pablo's shit, but then they were back in bed. But I mean, maybe that's also how they needed to survive, because they don't have a skill set

His influence lives on.

I think we all remember a few years ago when El Chapo was the rage.

He was a Mexican cocaine kingpin and he.

Was obsessed with Escobar, like that was his you know, Michael Jordans. So you know, people with sort of shark no souls can really get behind everything Pablo Escobar was doing. But the brutality and the violence, it's like, it's like, it's weird that Cabot none of that would have registered for her because clearly, like the Valez character is supposed to be askebar, you know, and it's like, I don't know, you should be scared a little bit more scared because

Thank you for that. Loved that rundown, loved being informed. And now we have an iconic guest. You guys are gonna lose it.

Oh my gosh.

I've been dreaming of the day that I get to do this introduction of a guest, and here it is. You guys, you know this actor very intimately. You have seen her recently on Ava DuVernay's superhero drama Naomi on the CW, or maybe you've seen her playing Ivanka Trump on a president show documentary, The Fall of Donald Trump. But you definitely know her in your heart as one of the best adas of all time. Alex Cabot, guys, don't I don't know what else to say. We're about to talk to Stephanie March.

You've been on our wish list before we even started. Iconic character, iconic role, and one of the best episodes ever. But I guess we'll just start with how what's the origin story of nailing this part and getting cast on SVO?

You know, I don't I don't know you ever think we nail the part. That's a good question. The other day, my friend who her name is Becca Perkins. She's my business partner, and she happens to be I met her on the set. She's a head makeup artist at FEW

Wow.

Then you and I see just joining in season two? Were you guys buddies as like the newbies? And it was so early in the show's history. Did you guys know it was going to be this iconic and that we'd all be obsessed for years to come?

I did not.

You know, at the time, television was very different, of course, And the standard contract that you signed was seven years. And I told my agent, I said, I cannot find you. Remember, I'm fresh out of the theater. I'm fresh out of college. You know, I'm going to first I'm going to be Lady with Best and I'm going to do this show. Then I'm going to do something out and start a theater company, and then I'm going to start on this movie. And I have all these plans. And I said, I

Wow, that's great info.

Oh, he's so he should have a class. He should have a seminar for every senior in college called real fucking life, Like that's what it should be called.

Well, he does on Twitter a little bit.

You know, he has this ice cold facts.

I remember him saying in the makeup row I was, I was in there and he just was one of the times I had come back, and he said, man, I don't know what's happened to you, but if you're fifty and you haven't gotten over it, now it's your problem. I'm like, Okay, I guess that's it. I guess fifty is the age which you can't complain about your childhood anymore. It's on you.

But I remembered it, agreed, be smart.

Wow, And you mentioned makeup and head of makeup, and we are constantly like obsessed with the wardrobe and the makeup what was your relationship like with the crew, the writer's, makeup, hair, any kind of like behind the scenes people, because I'm sure you work so closely with a lot of them.

I loved the crew and I loved the cast. I will say we were constantly secretly with hair and makeup at OZ with production, because you're always trying to be just slightly more glamorous or slightly more fun. And you know, I watched the episode Lost last night. I haven't seen it, you guys. I cannot watch myself on TV. I haven't seen it in probably, I don't know, fifteen years. So

Yeah, we were wondering about the bangs.

I was like, I wonder if the bangs was a Stephanie call or a hair and makeup call.

Oh that was that was a Stephanie call. I can't put that on hair and makeup. That was one hundred percent me. And I looked at it and I just think, you know, it's not that bangs are bad, because it can be great. But those were past.

That's very fast.

And when I met Dan, my husband, he said, yeah, I saw some pictures of you and I are you going to get banks again? Why you asked? You said you look great? Now. I's like, is that your way of saying you hate them? But yes, that's my way of saying I hate them.

Hey, that kind of honesty is worth its.

Way presented correctly.

Yes, Well, I'm so glad you watched that episode because it's incredible the scenes with you, Lionel Granger and Petrovsky. The three of you in chambers and talking is like a masterclass in acting, and with you and Granger and Zapata, like, those scenes.

Are so good.

Do you remember shooting those and being like, oh, we're amazing. I don't know, and and we love and Petrovsky so much exactly.

First of all, David and Joanna are two of the best actors. And I say that because you never see them acting, you always think they are that person. And she's Judge Petrovsky, no question, I needs Lionel Granger, like, no questions. Also, they're two of the most pleasant people to work with. They're just very delightful, smart, interesting, intelligent people.

With, right, Yeah, and do you remember being scared? I mean Zapota jumping over that table. I was, I mean, you just I was like, such a scary scene.

It's the nicest guy, the nicest actors the world. That man moves fast, and so it's great. You don't have to do very many takes, right, you know, if you get it, if you get it right on the first time, it's hard to be surprised over and over. So rather fortunately, I think I think we got it.

Yeah. I was wondering if maybe there was like prov involved, because you truly look so terrified when he comes at you in that scene that I was like, I wonder if he kind of jumped the line and just went at her or something, because I don't know, you just really look genuinely terrified.

I don't see the acting there.

I would say we choreographed it only because you sort of have to with moving furniture because you don't want to hit you know, we can't. You want to hit the crew, you want to hit an actor. You don't you know, you don't want to run the take by bumping into a light. But it was also really late at night, if I recall, and we were all tired, and I just you know, those hours were really long, and I think he just surprised the hell out of me. Yeah, we just got lucky. Also, I'm just a genius.

Yes, yeah, well outside of David, And you got to work with so many defense attorneys, judges. Was there anyone on the call sheet you'd see and you'd be like, Oh, today is going to be extra fun, or I can't wait to show down with them in court?

We're yeah, any faves.

So the late Ned Eisenberg, who I adore, I Ned so talented and such a nice man. I almost I can't. I just can't bear the thought of the fact that he is no longer with us, and he was such a joy to work with. You know, there's a long day because they would shoot the courtroom, they would shoot the court room stuff altogether because for location reasons, so you would do nothing for a couple of days, and then you'd spend you know, forty eight out of seventy

Yeah, like Ned Eisenberg, Like you know, he I know him mostly from the show, and he, you know, is kind of a jerk character, but there's still something so endearing about him. You know, you really like you like him, right, even though yeah, he's so great.

Yeah, he was the clever guy. He's really smart, he's really funny. And he and b D ended up. Of course b D. Unfortunately b D and I did not. We weren't in the courtroom a lot together. B D and I are good friends, and having a day with him was really great. And he was in a play with Ned a few years ago, and I went to see it and I was like, oh, it's all my favorite things all at once. It's just not while and work, but there it is.

Yeah, we did have b D on the podcast and he did mention that you guys are good friends, so we were hoping that he would, you know, give you a little nudge to do our podcast.

You know.

Unfortunately, were you able to see b D because b D has actually not aged at all. We had dinner two weeks ago with b D and Dan and his husband Micro and Becca, actually the afore mentioned Rebecca Perkins, and it was I mean, Becca and I could not stop staring at BDV, like, what is he doing, Chris? It looks shame, it's crazy.

We told him that too.

We were like, there's just no way that you're sixty, and he was like, I mean, this is it. I just could not believe it. He looks like fully better Benjamin Buttoning. But he also mentioned that you were the He mentioned to us that you were like a big restaurant person and that you're the person to talk to for like rexs of the new hot places in New York.

I mean, I used to be I'm used to be My game used to be sharper, especially in a pre COVID world. But one of my best friends does hospitality pr and so I get to go to all of the great places with her. Just fun.

Oh that's really nice. That's really fun.

And you can still buy an actor with a free drink.

I'll be in New York next week. Is there a hot news spot I should check out?

Actually, there are two, and I'm proud to say that I had an eight. I am a tiny, a tiny bit of an investor. I have a small piece of the action. And both of them, and both of them are quite popular right now. One is a very chic Indian restaurant called Sona, which is on twentieth Street, and it's just kind of just written up in Vogue and we got a great review in the New York Times. And the food is really good and the scene is really great, and it's just or just and the cocktails

I wrote them down. I can't wait. But if I may say, so love it.

Well.

We were talking about we were talking.

About your relationships with other cast members, and it seems like you always have sort of a sweet mentor mentee relationship with Fred Thompson as well, the former senator s last district attorney.

You know, somebody I really did really make me. Weap me last night watching that scene with him. I loved working for us. Yeah, he was such a gentleman and and just so just so professional. You know, we, for whatever reason, we always ended up shooting late at night. You know, I would wait most of the day and then I would be called at three o'clock in the afternoon, and then I'd work n till two o'clock in the morning. And for whatever reason, Fred and I always ended up

Josh, he was gonna oh wow, So there's that well out outside of the main he worked with so many people that were on the cast and recurring. Were there any days where you saw the guest star or who you were going to grill on the stand and you were like, holy shit, this is I can't believe this is happening.

Well, okay, so there wasn't a so for a hot second. Diane Weese with Fred Thompson had Fred Thompson's role as the da and I worked with Dian Weas in a couple of scenes, and she is probably one of my favorite actresses of all time, like of all time, And I almost couldn't work with her because I was so nervous to be working with legend and she really didn't care that much about the show. She could have been nicer, but she was she really didn't want to be there,

Oh my god, I love it. That's awesome.

Wea.

I was going to ask you when you were rewatching.

The episode last night, because Okay, you're talking about some beautiful women, but what about when you have to go ahead to head with some of these hot guys. Because last night, I was real when we were rewatching it, I was sensing a lot of chemistry between you and the dea guy who got blown before he.

Got blown kaboom.

Yeah.

I felt like maybe a date was going to happen with you. No, but then it turned out he was married with kids. But you know, I really felt like there was a chemistry with you too.

Well. You know, it's so funny. You know, Peter Herman was brought on. They were toying with the idea of making him permanently Cabot's boyfriend. How hilarious is that?

Oh my god?

Yeah, I Peter Herman appere on the show in the context of being a possible love interest for Cabots, and then they decided that they just didn't really want to do that with the show, and what was working regular Law and Order was the fact that the characters didn't really have personal lives and they just didn't want to go down that road. And then you know Peter ends up marying Mushka.

Yeah, you were there for that whole romance blossoming huh.

Yes, no, I watched it. I mean I met him first.

And then was it obvious like when they started flirting, where was everyone like, oh, we know what's going to go down.

Well, Marcia is just so funny and she's so charming, So there's rarely a person around her who isn't delighted by her company a ton of fun and Peter is so they're very complimentary characters. He's incredibly thoughtful, he's incredibly kind, he's incredibly decent. He also speaks three languages. He went to Yale, he was teaching for America's first volunteer. He

Wait, do you know that there's a lot of fan thick of Cabot and Benson ending up together and you guys being each other as romantic love affairs?

Not, okay, do I know that? But the last time I was on the show, Rurushka and I just to mess with everybody when we were saying goodbye in a scene shot on a city corner downtown by city Hall at night, we kissed on camera just to mess with

So that exists somewhere. So that is somewhere on the editing room floor.

So that they tore that up, but nothing with them. We could not stop laughing.

That's so funny, because yeah, there's all you know, there's been this decades of Benson Stabler, which we're not really a part of. We're not really on that team. And then there's a lot of people that are like forget them. Then it's got to be Benson in Cabot and I don't know, you guys would make a pretty hot couple. And now that this kiss is out there, who knows.

It's out there somewhere? It's so fabulous. Come on, where each other's half birthdays? I think that matters somehow astologically. I also think what was really important about the show is none of us were anybody's girlfriend, and you know that's quite my earlier. It was a story about people in their jobs, not guys with jobs and the girls

Well, and you also like aren't scared of any of the dudes, like you were yelling at Stabler to do that his fucking.

Job a lot, like you talk to Craigan.

I mean, it's also like two really badass characters all the way through.

Such what.

I watched it last night, So since the episode, of course, I've watched every episode of Narcos and Narcos Mexico. So I look at Cabot yesterday and I'm thinking, what are you doing? Those guys are going to kill you. I mean, now I understand back off, I know, I know now.

That we've seen so much cartel, Like you know, there's been a lot of cartel content, Like since that episode came out, you're like, oh my god, leave it alone.

Yeah, but thinking she can go on that guy's yacht, I mean, what the hell?

Yeah, the Dea guys were right, They're like they'll take down a whole plane of people, like please stop, and yeah, like absolutely not.

Yeah, it's so positive they're going to exercise him.

But even I mean that passion.

Then later when you leave with the episode, witness to like go to the congo that character like, she's just passionate about her work and justice, and that's what makes her so good at her job.

Well, what I liked is that when she started, and this is what I really tried, you know, you always trying to come up with things to keep it interesting or rich or give that person a full in her life. You know, wherever they're whenever they appear on camera, in theory, they've just come from somewhere, right, they exist somewhere in my imagination. So at first, when Alex started, I decided that she was a person who was very, very committed to doing her job by the letter of the law.

Yeah, yeah, no, it definitely did.

It definitely comes across that ambition she had at the beginning and then transferring it to sort of the greater good. But when you left, because this episode lost is when you leave for a minute, were you leaving to go do other projects? Were you like, did you feel like you had to step away so.

You could come back?

And did you always know you were going to come back at all, like cause you come in and out of the series like two or three times.

Well, it was two things. I didn't like an idiot. By that, I mean I had had so much success early that what I thought was going to happen was I was just going to go from job to jobs, and at that point I had done, you know, one hundred and something episodes. And the success of the show is that it is rooted in a certain rhythm and a certain familiarity and a certain pattern that's very true to life and as an actor, after a certain point in time, you think I've got to be somebody other

So did you just get a call one day and they're like, please come back?

Or were you like, yeah, okay, big They said you want to do half a season and I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to do half a season. No, am I going to get to do some fun stuff? Can I wear pants this time?

Yeah?

And you know, and they said yes. And it's so. I mean the greatest thing about this job is that I live in New York and New York it's a character on the show, right, So I get to show up in my city, work with these amazing people, really explore all of these different corners of Manhattan and brons Brooklyn that I never would have and have a great time and act my face off sometime. It's such a great job.

So when you came back for season nineteen, is it like oh old, like visiting your old high school? Or is everyone the same? Is it people and you're like, hey, don't you remember me? What is the vibe when you come back your most recent episode?

Well, first of all, like I'm older now, this is a while ago, so everybody is totally tattooed. That's the first thing I always thought is, oh my god, the camera crew is like twenty three and they're totally patted up and they're such badasses. Was it like that? Always? There are far more women behind the camera than there used to be, which is outstanding. The set is just filthy. They have got to deep clean that thing. I don't

Yeah, yeah, that's fun. I love it.

Did you like, I know you were in ninety seven episodes, so this might seem like a very you know, broad

You know, I think what happened. I remember thinking on days that I worked, I couldn't read the paper because it was too much bad news. It was just too like too much. And I don't think it's an accident that most of us. I mean, it's certainly works, because certainly may certainly be have become involved in organizations that address the issues that we talk about on the show.

Yeah, And I was reading a little bit about you, and I know you've had involvement with Planned Parenthood and the organization Safe Horizon. Are you still involved with those organizations or is there an organization that you currently work with that you very.

Much so, I don't. I'm not on the board of Safe Horizon anymore. But just for another reason, I just I just became so busy. But the Safe Horizon phone number was actually the number that they flashed at the end of every episode of the first season of SCU because it was one of the few organizations in the United States to address actually violent crimes. And I'm still

In twenty twenty, yeah, exactly.

Well, I proudly donate to Planned Parenthood every month in Mike Pence's name. I think my donation is still holding over so awesome.

No, it's really incredible that SVU has been so ahead of its time on so many important issues that are now still being talked about, and like there're just episodes from season four that are still issues today. I think about one of my most haunting was the episode with Kate Menig and she was trans and they sent her to the boyd present and then Benson calls you and is like meet me at the hospital, and like that scene lives in me all the.

Time, and it's just like so fucked that it's.

It's absolutely still an issue. It could be headline news right now. It's you know, I will tell you something that's sort of scary. When I started the number of sex crimes. First of all, who knows how many are actually brought to trial or people press charges. But the number of times somebody's convicted is the conviction rate is four percent for percent, So that's it's better now. I would not say it's amazing, but it's significantly better. But if that tells you how, it's just it's not a

Yeah, we definitely have learned so much from I mean, like I had to did We covered the episode Witness where you have your your amazing relationship with.

Narda Lee.

The actress Saiita eric Akalona, who we also talked to on our podcast, one of the most powerful on the stand performances fantastic.

She is so good.

Okay, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely, No, I wasn't. I wasn't trying to interrupt.

I just yeah, I was just saying, you know, like the atrocities in the Congo, what I have known about that if I didn't watch SPU, I can't say for sure. You know, like there's there's so much that they I think that they're constantly reinventing and finding new ways to bring issues to the forefront.

And not as serious of an issue.

But I love whenever you or any of the DA's like go into a giant board meeting and take down a huge company And it was like the kid who was licking lead off the cars, And so I'll forever know what Pika is because of.

Oh yeah, exactly. You know, it's so funny. I one of my goals. It's not really really, it's you set small goals for yourself in the middle of the scene. And there's always water on the tables in the courtroom because he does not they picture water. And I was like, one of these times, I'm going to drink water. I'm going to drink water and camera. These pictures that I've been looking at for four years are not just going

This more silly.

But we did talk to Neil bar and we talked about Rory Culkin that episode Man and his Wig. Was it hard not to laugh at the wig? Were you uh distracted by the wig?

I could not afford to be distracted by anything because mine. You know, you've got to learn legal easee right, you have to. You need to present this material like like you're not memorizing it, like you just know what you're talking about, you know, you know what I mean, Like artists don't have to come up with the right words and the technique of the paint that they're just it's

Yeah, we've talked to him twice and we are obsessed with him. Uh and yeah, like Lena Ollen. He brings in all these like beautiful actresses from like not like older years, but you know like that maybe I haven't seen you know that they kind of get like a second life.

Neil Behar is a lover of the lady actress.

Yes, for sure. He's told us a lot about that.

Well, speaking of lady love, I am obsessed with Kathy Griffin when she comes on the episode PC and is immediately obsessed with you, like because you're so beautiful. She just like is jaw on the floor? Like did you like working with comedians? And like how was working with her?

I was so intimidated by her because you know, she's so bright and she's so sharp, but she's so funny, and I was nervous, you know, some dope. She could not have been nicer, could not have been nicer. It's funny, you know, awesome. The people who play irredeemable assholes are actually I think the most pleasant people in real life to work with. She's incredible. I don't know that's the episode recently. Oh, John Glazer's episode aired recently. John is

Yeah. Well that we have not asked anyone.

We've talked to a few cast members and I can't believe we haven't. But any insight you can tell us on the Christmas party is what are the SVW holiday parties?

Like? Oh, fascinating, really you hearing about the wrap party and the Christmas.

First either, I mean Christmas.

We're into the holiday party vibe, but the wrap parties too.

Sure tell us anything? Yeah, you know.

What ended up happening with all of this stuff is that you would just be so tired at the end of the season. You're like, please, my Christmas present to me is my day off? Like it's like, if you really want to give me a Christmas present, give me a jacket that doesn't have the logo of the show on us as if I can either wear it without being recognized, or we gets it to somebody who will enjoy it. Mostly, I'm always trying to get non logo apparel.

Yeah, you know what I mean.

I don't want to wear a big SPU sweatshirt.

So I will wear them for you. Oh, I do have an extensive SVU merch.

That's what I think. They're meaningful gifts. Yeah, don't. I don't want the merch. I think that's like wearing a target.

I can't believe we didn't ask you.

What has been some of your craziest fan interactions When you're recognized on the street.

You know, mostly people are really really nice. I think this show strikes a chord and people that's quite personal and they're just so enthusiastic. But I will tell you, you know, it used to be, oh my gosh, I love your show. I watch it all the time. It's so much fun and that, and you know, in the last five years it's oh my gosh, my mom loves your show. It's her favorite show. And I think that's cool. Uh, do you watch it? But people aren't really sweet. People

Well.

Speaking of fans of the show, how did you feel about Mickey Rourke when he discovered SVU about twenty years later and had a passionate declaration of love on Instagram for the show.

I so, I've been kind of keeping myself off social media, especially since in the last year, because which made me a little like not so. But a friend of mine alerted me to what was going on, and I mean I pretty much called everybody I knew and I was like, oh, I'm on friends of thinking work. That's basically what I said. I haven't met him, which I will, will I hang out?

Yeah, and you know, we.

Instagram from each other. Hand today.

I died.

It was probably one of the greatest compliments I've ever seen in my life.

So funny, it was so sincere and like, hey, have you guys seen the show SVU that's been running for twenty two seasons at that point, like it made.

My day and not I'm a huge fan. I prefaced this saying I'm a huge fan. But he was like, Marvel what SVU is out there? But wow, that is that is high praise.

Oh my god, you tell us about Naomi. We saw amazing leather fun outfits. And we've talked to your co star Mausam Macar on the show.

Oh of course you talked to Malam.

Yeah, yeah, she told us a little bit about the show.

But what is your role?

Oh, I'm an intergalactic badass all La. And I say this because this is exactly how the character was described to me when I was parditioning. She is an intergalactic badass a lah Ripley, And I thought, do I want to be an intergoactic badass? The superpowers were able to Baroney. The answer is a very quick yes, I do. So that has been really fun.

And would you come back to sview?

Yeah?

That was my next question. Yeah, we want more.

You're now like helping people escape terrible situations.

And are we going to see more of Alex's cabot.

Here's what I say about squ SVU is the boyfriend you can never quit running into. Squ is pretty much always a yes. So never say.

Never before we no.

I mean we're gonna let you go because we've already taken up a lot of your time, but like just before you like any last minute super funny, like your go to funny story that you like to tell SVU fans or anyone that you meet, like of memories.

Or something funny that happened on the set.

I wish I could help you out here, and I would love to privately, but then the culture in which we live in right now, no freaking ways want to share that with you. Only Gatlow's humor we'll get you through those days. And I shan't be recorded saying it.

How excited we're all of you for that interview? How about that about she was.

Spilling some tea, we were getting some info.

And we got, you know, a kissing situation, and yeah, she's so cool.

Though I would like, I'm like, it's like her, Laura Bananti.

It's like you're not allowed to be like smart, funny, hot and cool too, Like I need you to be like a jerk er, not interesting, you know.

But allow.

I see some people are allowed to all these gifts.

How sad would it be if Stephanie March sucked? That would be devastating to all of us? Of course that would have been what would we have done? Will be like, okay, roll the tape.

No, she was amazing, And I don't know if there's a ton of takeaway from this episode for our practical lives because neither of us are involved in you know, transnational drug trade. But I would say, yeah, if the Columbian cartels are coming at you, maybe back back off. I don't know personally from what I've seen, I wouldn't.

Be Oh no, I would be the I would be the front of house guy at the restaurant.

Yeah, I would go.

I don't know that, man. Yeah, no, idea, absolutely not. Piece of them put me in jail, bitch. I don't give a fuck, are you kidding? Like, yeah, I don't. But that's why we're not working in the justice system.

Because I also probably would not drop my life to go to the Congo and fight for women's rights. I mean, I'm no Alex Cabot, that's for sure.

Yeah, but I don't get all of them always. I don't need protective I don't want that.

I don't.

It's why just take it. I know, live is always like I'm fine. It's like there's a serial killer who's actually like using your name in the clues, like and I can do it.

I can handle it.

It's like crazy, but yeah, an amazing episode, Like and I was, you know, happy to learn about Pablo Escobar because, like I said, I never watched an Arco's I didn't really know.

I just knew the sort of general scariness.

But well, yeah, and the flight thing is true, like they will kill, they don't are, they don't care.

These are just like business people.

Yeah, and I really wonder how things would operate if drugs were legalized, you know, and these people just were running legitimate businesses.

You know, they know how to do it, they know how to move the product.

Yeah, do they want to pay tax? I can't even I'll get into all of that. But it is one of my favorite episodes. I feel the acting is so like top notch in this episode with Dave Thorton and Petrovsky, and just like Zapota, the anger, the boats, like I just like, I think this is one of my top twenty episodes. I really enjoy it.

Yeah, no, it is a It is definitely a good one. It has everything.

It has like bureaued conflict and chases and lies and secrets and cliffhangers and.

Like twists for days.

I mean, like the twist at the end is I remember watching it for the first time and being like jaw on the floor.

But I liked it. We had a great time.

So let's segue right into what would Sister Peg do, our weekly segment where we give you guys an organization, an article, a book, a documentary, something to help flush out more of what we talked about in today's episode. And we'd like to highlight this week the organization the

And I think we can all agree.

Yeah, the war on drugs has been was lost a long time ago, and WOLA advocates for reducing the harms caused by the drug trade and drug policies themselves. So a great organization. You can learn more or donate at wolawola dot org. That's WOLA dot org.

Thank you for that, And next week we keep on rolling on old school ep stolen Season three, Episode three, pretty fun one. So I'm very excited that you listen to us. Honestly, so grateful and I'm so happy I get to watch so muches for you.

Thanks for messaging us, Keep messaging us, to our insta, to our email.

We love you guys, See you next week.

That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.

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And to our mixer, John Bradley, and.

To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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