Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.
Done, Hello, that's messed up?
An SVU podcast. I am Liza Trigger and I am Kara Klank. This podcast is where we dissect an episode of SVU the true crime it was based on, and then we have a fabulous guest and today is no different. But before that, we chat and we have a shit ton going on, and we have been having a lot going on, and we're really excited.
Just I mean, we're living our sex in the city, packed schedule lives. People would look in and be like, no one lives like that, and it's like, yes, we are eating oysters. Can you even believe it? Pasta in the streets of New York. But we are going to the Backstreet Boys tonight. So that's very thrilling. It's kind of like a TikTok countdown until then. Yeah, I refused to unpack. I am in my house. One suitcase is still in the car. I just I can't. I can't.
Lisa's coming off of a three city multinational.
Tour, but tour makes it seem like I was working, and I was mostly gallivanting.
We country fifty to fifty gallivanting working, you know. We talked about her trip to Finland and she is back from that. And then we met up in New York and we went to go see our friends show Oh God, an Hour about abortion at the Cherry Lane Theater, starring written by Alison Liby, our dear friend, and it was amazing. We had a blast.
It's such a smart, funny, great show. And then you know, we get to sip champagne in the green room like a true fantasy.
And then we went out on the town.
And then we did go to San Diego right after, and so we did tell the live audience there in San Diego some of these stories.
But that's just what happens when you see us. Yeah, if you see us five, you get the tea first.
Don't be like these, you know, if you're the two hundred something people in San Diego, don't be like, oh, this story again.
I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, we gotta let everybody know. So we went to Allison's show, which by the way, has been extended at the Cherry Lane. So if you're listening to this now, I think you can still go see it.
But I do want to say Kara missed this. But my friends and I were waiting outside to go in, and there is.
Like sharing a wall with the Cherry Lane.
Theater is a giant home and a preteen in ballet clothes comes out of it, and I'm like, I can't believe you're living here, like yeah.
Like on Cherry Lane in New York City.
Well, it's like and the mom was just like there, and I wanted to be like, can you just give us a rundown?
Like I don't you? Just like what the deal?
Yeah? Who has the money?
Is it?
Family? Did somebody come up with a patent for an amazing idea? What's going on? How do you guys live here? Yeah? It is like the most beautiful, picturesque little street. We were rolling like twenty people deep. We just knew so many people that were going to see the show or friends that wanted to come with us. So we had a bit.
Me and Kara flew in, You flew in.
Yeah, I was. I was able to luckily leave my children and with my husband and find a ticket last minute and I was able to fly in, and I was so happy that I did, because I just do.
You want to tell everyone about the dramatic story of daycare and communicable diseases.
Oh my god, listen, we're living in a COVID world. But my child currently has hand foot in mouth, don't It's like the most disgusting name for a disease. It's literally just a rash and there's nothing you can do about it, but it's like very contagious. So she can't go to school. So she's home right now, and so is her brother because he can't go even though he doesn't have it yet. And it's just like, I'm sure moms are like, oh yeah, this shit because it like
ravages through daycares. It's like, but then Oscar's daycare, there's multiple kids, Yeah, we kids, COVID.
Yeah, everything is wild.
And what I've learned through this experience his parenthood just seems like everyone just trying to not be with their children as most as time as possible, and COVID really puts a fork in their place.
Well.
The other thing is too, is like Lisa is always like Caro, what do you have going on? And I'm always like not anything compared to what you have going on. And I finally was like going out to Joshua Tree overnight trip to see this musician Nico Case, who I love that I've been wanting to see at this iconic venue called Pappy and Harriet's that's out in the desert. I was so excited, and then I can't go now because my kid has fucking handfoot in mouth whose alternate
name is COXSACKI. I think that's the alternate name for hand foot in mouth. Like someone was like, oh, that's the worst name, and I go, really, the other name is Cooksaki. So it's just like a horrible but we're living through it. Honestly, Rosie's in the best mood. I can't believe she has a fucking like disease right now. She's in a great can only kids have it, like adults can get it. But it's like a sore throat and it's like not as light, like it's just not as likely.
Yeah, yeah, I'm having a spiral. If I should have watched the kids so you could have gone to Joshua.
Tree, No, no, you would have had to watch two children all day, Lisa. You would have seriously jumped out of a window. That's why I was like, like, my I had a babysitter ready to pick them up from school, do dinner, stay over, take them to school. But with school out of the picture, I was like, we can't do it. But that's very sweet of you to eat, But you went that across your mind. We did get to go to dinner last night. We did get a babysitter.
We went to dinner last night. We stayed out for like two and a half hours, and then we were like, should we go to a bar? And then we were like, let's just go home and watch drag Race. And then I of course fell asleep, but I'm really excited to watch the end.
But well, it says one year? Was it two years ago? You had a big dinner party?
Oh yeah, so for our five year. Our five year was June of the pandemic, and I was potted with Lisa and a couple of other couples and we had a little dinner party in our backyard and it was I thought it was pretty nice. It was lovely, but.
Yeah, it was great.
Yeah, a gourmet multi course meal for your wedding anniversary where none of.
Us were at well, yeah, but it was also like it was also like we were dying to do anything that felt like an event because we'd already been two and a half months sequestered in our homes. But drag Race my jaws on the floor every single day.
I'm like, oh my.
God, no they I'm on the Hysteria podcast as well. I'm like a rotating person on that podcast, and they do a thing called Sanity Corner and my like just something you're doing to keep yourself like calm. And I was like, honestly, this sounds so basic. But Drag Race all stars the winter season, it's just like there's no real shade, and that's like okay with me because they're all just so excellent and no one's going home and it's just like relaxing me. How good everyone relaxing? Yeah,
it is relaxing. Everybody's so good.
Like no one is a full mentally ill monster. You know, no one's just like, wow, you look like shit. Yeah, there's none of that because no one looks like shit. That's actually I like when people say they look like shit. I take all those backs.
Well, but I'm also not sitting there going you're obviously not gonna make it past episode three? Can we get you out of here? You know what I mean? There's no filler. It's all just quality, like drag excellence. Like everyone I thought of lunatic.
I thought of like a Gia Gun being like you seem nervous, Yeah, are you nervous?
Such a lunatic? Like I love Geagun but fully off the rails. Wait, so let's go back to New York really quickly and tell everybody what happened. So we So I walk in a little bit like after Lisa, and she's like, Arden's here, our good friend Arden Marine an amazing comedian, loner fore years. She's the best.
Actually, I would say a very well known. If you saw her face, you would know her.
Yeah, oh yeah, I think comedian because that's how I know her. But she's an actress. She was on mad TV's on It. She was on a show called Insatiable. I'm not sure if it's still on, but like it's.
Not, but I watched two seasons. People were mad. I liked it. So then her friend, a coaster from that show's there and I run to care are going? Arden brought someone from svo and Kara could care less, But I go.
Oh cool, because she doesn't give me any other information. She just goes Arden brought somebody who's been on SVU, and I go neat, like I met a fucking lady who was on SVU last week and she was boring as hell, like she had a small little part. I had no idea who it was. And then I go
to see Liza at her seat. I look to Arden next to her, and then I look next to Arden and I'm like my eyes had to like adjust, like I was like, oh my god, it's fucking doctor Gregory Yates, like humongous part multiple episode arc, one of the biggest villains of all time on SVU. She just yeah, killed so many people and married him in a beach and he's just like sitting there and I'm like, ah, I go, will you be on our podcast? I think that's like the first thing I said to him. I just like screamed,
while you be on our podcast? And he was like, yeah, sure, you guys are nuts, like it was really fun.
Well we were also from Happy Hour because then I looked at him and I go, we've had a.
Few, yeah, and we were what was that we were flying high from Happy Hour? A tune a notcho. We had a lot going on.
But also there's no need to fry a deviled egg. We want a devil egg for the cooling nature of it. We don't need it fried and warm and like gushing out of rye like I'll you.
Know what, if I want that, I'll take a holopen, you'll popper. I don't need that in a double de egg. They were trying to halapen you'll popper fi a double degg at this place we went, but no, we found this great one of those like West.
Well find it. Our friend told us.
Our friend found it, but our friend founded. But one of these those ones where you go downstairs in the West Village. So if you're like in a like a cool basement bar on a warm June day. No one was in there basically just our friends and we just had a wonderful happy hour. Bounced over to the abortion show, met doctor Gregoryates. Afterwards we all got like a bunch of us, got to go and have champagne in the VIP room with Alison. Then we go to this after
a restaurant and we're all hanging out. It was so fun.
Well, I had a debacle there.
I had a social debacle because I walk and there's a table filled with people, you know, and there's free seats behind.
So I get the host. I'm like, can you set up a table for ten?
We have a bunch of more people coming, and he's like, no, absolutely not, and I was like whatever, and then he finally does it. He sets up the table. You all arrive and you're like, we're not sitting at this table. We're going to the bar.
And then the rest of the night, this man is glaring at me and then glaring.
At this empty table.
I made him set up, and it was just it was humiliating, and it.
Was really me. I mean it was like other people.
It was my best friend who stabbed me in the back. She was like, I'm not fucking sitting there, and then she went to the bar.
I can't deal with splitting a check with twenty people, and I was like, fair enough, and so I would just went to order at the bar. And then suddenly I was just sitting at the bar for a while.
But but I had an amazing pasta. I would go back there for sure.
But then it was called Leroy House, right, I don't know, well, I want to give them a shout out if you said it's the most amazing pasta, I'm trying.
It was a very good positive. You didn't need any of the pasta. No, I got the artichoke. I got something else.
And then they cleared the artichokes before we were done, and I like made a face and the guy's like, I'll take it off your bill, and I was like, oh, thank you. I just made a face, but thank you. No, I got a couple things and it was all really good.
It was good.
So, you know, Kara described the pregame place and being like it was empty, no one was there, and.
That was our goal for the after after.
But like it was pride in the village on a Friday night, and so we were walking from bar to bar, going two packed and then leaving or everyone's twenty four and it was like we went to seven bars. But as someone that was just in New York for a quick weekend, it was like, I'll walk around the West Village all day long. Yeah, I love this, But it was like why is there not an empty bar?
Yeah? We just kept being like why isn't that a bar with like three old gay men in it? Like why why are we like having to find so many young people, but we're out.
Yeah.
It was a lot. Yeah, it was amazing.
It was cool. It was cool, just not for our purposes.
And then I had a friend's wedding the next so I didn't want to get too wild on a Friday either.
I had a big and I had a seven am flight and I flew into La to throw my son's one year birthday party because I am actually a maniac. Uh, there's a we loan event. There's a photo of me. I'll put it on the Instagram for the podcast. It's like literally me holding both my kids and you can just see in my eyes I've been drinking for two nights, Like you can just see, like she I can't be doing this right now, Like both my kids are on my lap and everybody's trying to take a cute picture
of me, and my eyes are like help me, you know. So, But I was It was worth it. The birthday party went great, and the trip to New York was amazing. And then San Diego. Thank you. Everybody who came out at San Diego waited to meet us and everything. We had the best time.
It was such a fun show.
Yeah, you have my Comedy. Lisa's gonna be there in August. If you live in the San Diego area, Lisa's gonna be at Mike Drop Comedy. That club is fucking on it. They're a new club, so they like I don't know if they're trying to prove themselves or what, but they're doing it like they've got everything covered.
They made us some table.
Oh yeah, the menu is amazing, but also the table is made out of candy.
So the tables in the groom in the green room, you don't get to sit at it. Sorryroom. Yeah, and like it just like they they've got They made us some menu that was like Elite squad, a lo ta like all this, like all stuff that was like about exactly right about our names on the podcast. In his view, it was so cute. So anyway, great place go see
Lisa in August. Anyway, crazy fun weekend and now tonight we're going to the Backstreet Boys and we'd like, I mean, we should probably shout out our friend and Backstreet hostess who listens to the pod, Sophia. It's her birthday and she invited us and we're so excited.
Yeah.
She is Hannah's bestie from Canada from on shore, not that Hannah's from there.
Listen.
Oh and I came home and our friend Alex.
Sent us key chains that say especially Hanas and executive producer Dick.
Oh.
Yeah, they're so cute. Oh, I have a photo of the menu.
So yeah, there's a drink called Probable Cause, which is funny. It's a fishbowl, Benson fly re examine wrap, Done Done sliders.
It was fucking We should make like our own menu. That's like ex partey platter, like the stuff we talk about on the podcast.
Wait, but I okay, I was looking for this. So obviously we love social events, so of course we're gonna fly to go to weddings, to go to events, events, events. But then I didn't see this horoscope meme that really you laughed at my face, didn't you?
Why I wasn't there.
It is like such a read so it's like fake vulture articles and it says in quotes, I hate this city, says a virgo who never leaves their house. And I was like, mother, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Bethany, Wow.
I feel attacked. I feel very attacked, very attacked.
And not me.
I'm talking about Lisa. I'm a virgo who loves to leave my house. I'm the opposite. I'm the September side over Ago. I don't know if it's the hoggest side that likes to chill, but.
I'm also out.
I do want to shout out my friend Emmy's wedding. I met a listener Meg, her husband Kevin. They have a wine shop in a town I can't remember. I'm sorry, Meg, but so I met Meg and Kevin, very good chats, and then Emmy and Nick at Elpenguino. I do need a shout out, and I think every wedding should adopt this. Just have a giant bucket of caviar and a giant bucket of potato chips and crackers, and that's why that's
the wedding. Okay, Yeah, dipping caviar till two in the morning because there's too much caviar and no one could finish it. Like what does this Great Gatsby like fantasy? I couldn't believe it. Just dipping into caviar. I want it all over and shout out to Rainbow Cookies.
So that's it. That's it?
Ever, Yeah, no, my love, Speaking of wine, we did meet two listeners in San Diego. They both had podcast. One girl has a podcast called the Chatty Fox that's about wine, I guess. But then her friend goes. Her friend goes, oh, yeah, on my podcast, I talk about you guys all the time. When we go what's your podcast, she goes, it's called that Fuck Me Up. It's about shows that fucked me up. And it's like, you are so funny. So if you're interested in another podcast, I
guess about TV shows that fucked this girl up. There they are. It just really made me laugh and they like it.
Okay.
Also, I love seeing all the like aunts and niece's mom daughters out.
At the shows. That makes me feel happy.
And one woman said she lets her children listen to the intro, so I do love that.
Oh yes, she goes, she loves it when you guys say idiot or stupid. And I'm like, what about if we say dumb bitch, which we say all the time. She was like whatever. I was like, yeah, I mean I swear in front of Rosie. I'm trying to decrease the importance of swear words.
Yeah and oh, I.
Yelled at a group of people at the Fire Island screen.
It went to but I stop talking. They wouldn't. So wait. So there's a scene in Fire Island that I love where Bowen Yang sings a Britney Spears song and I didn't no bone I could sing like he sounds great. And so when the song's going on, Lisa leans forward and looks at me because there's a couple of people in between us, but we're wearing masks, so I can't see what she's saying. I just see her eyes getting wild, and so I go, I know, I didn't know Bowen
could sing either. And then she turns to the guys in front of us and goes, can you seriously just be quiet for one minute? And I was like, oh, she was mad about the guys. I was excited about Bowen. Never mind miscommunication. This is the problem with masks everyone. I'm a Republican now, I'm.
An anti masker. I've said it once. I've said it before. My good friend Julia was like, you wore a mask on your flight, right. I go, no, absolutely not. I'm done. I'm done. If you're not forcing, I'm not gonna fight anyone. I'm not gonna yell at an employee, even if I'm on the train and people around me are wearing masks. I'll wear a mask for their comfort, but no, no, no, if I have an opportunity not and if I am told too now, I like roll my eyes and I'm like, really, I definitely I'm done.
No, where are your masks?
Okay?
And I also, I had a show last night I got canceled because of COVID, and I'm like, grow up, it's like this.
Yeah, well it's a very COVID conscious show that got canceled. They're very strict about it.
So I could say that these men were talking right from the jump, and I knew what they were gonna do.
So I quietly went, you're gonna stop talking.
Right. They ignored me. Maybe they didn't hear me. Maybe I should have spoken louder. And then I realized, like, okay, I'm at this gay fest. There are a bunch of gay men. I've never even been to Fire Island. Like, you know, let them celebrate if they want to chat a little in this event. I'm gonna just I'm gonna try to focus on this movie. And it is fine. I'm gonna have a good time. But they wouldn't stop. They wouldn't stop.
They were acting like they were MSc three k ing the movie like they were just talking, you know what I mean, Like they were just doing mystery science theater commentary like the whole time.
The whole time. And it's like, this movie comes out in Hulu in three hours. Yeah, you could have watched it at home and talk the whole time, like what so true?
We were at a ten pm screening hours before it comes out.
It wasn't even the premier screening that was earlier. It was just like I and then I broke, and then I just couldn't handle it anymore. And then they stopped talking and it was such so much more enjoyable. I was like, I should have yelled at them hours ago.
But listen, at this point, this movie's been out for three weeks. But if you haven't seen Fire Island yet, it is so fucking good. You guys should see it. If you watched our very first live show, Joel Kim Booster, the writer and star of this movie, was a guest on our live show. He's a pal of ours. The movie has such an amazing cast. It's beautifully shot, It's so heartfelt but also hilarious, so many good jokes, like I can't say enough about it. I really really enjoyed it. Why all the flags?
I mean, yeah, it is it is such.
We said that all weekend. I just have to say, I was like, why all the flags? Well, anyone trade me a cress white strip for a prep Like I just thought it was like there were so many jokes, Like I was so impressed with Joel's acting, but the writing really blew me away too, Like I was really good to.
Like housewives nods to clueless. Obviously if you read that like and prejudiced, you'll see more under a Country gust to.
Marissa Chome and my cousin Vinnie. I mean it was it's a great It's just a great movie. So you've got Hulu, probably because you're watching this for you, So get on there and watch Fire Island. And I don't know should we start. It feels like we've been here talking.
We've been here a long time, but we've had a jam packed lots of jam packed adventures.
So of course we're going to talk.
About of course, of course and job. And now I'm like, did we forget anything? Oh the bad date? Should we just keep them waiting forever?
Ah? Next week we talked about the bad day or post mortem.
Maybe in the post mortam we'll see.
Oh yeah, make you guys listen to the end of the episode. You got to listen to the whole thing if you want to hear about Lisa's bad date. But now we're yeah, now let's get starting. We're starting. We're starting. Oh keydo here we go a legacy Season two episode four Wow, airing November tenth in the year two thousand. Can you believe?
I can't because it's such a vivid episode for me, Like my memory of this episode is crystal clear sharp, and I can't believe that it's season two.
It's so true. I've seen this one a bunch of times, and it doesn't Yeah, it feels like a more like I would guess season six or seven if you asked me, Like, it doesn't feel like it's so far away, but it is one of those original babies. And we open on a douchey high school kid who's on a landline at seven am talking about football with his friend, like I can't relate to you. The mom comes out and is like,
hurry up, kids, you'll be late for school. And there's like a little boy sitting at the table like just like drinking OJ with like you know, soggy trick serial next to him, and the mom asks, has anyone seen Emily and the douche sons like, I don't know, and it's not his responsibility to wake her up, Like you can tell he's not easy to live with. And then she tells the little boy who I thought was six but you later find out he's like four, to hurry
up because they're leaving in ten minutes. And yeah, I feel like the soggy Tricks and the OJ together gave me like a bad taste in my mouth immediately. But the mom goes into Emily's room. They live in a beautiful apartment multi level, and the mom goes into Emily's room and she's in bed, unresponsive, and when she goes to pick her up, she's like limp, and she notices a huge contusion on the back of her neck, and she like yells for the douche sun justin to come
up and help her. And now we're at the hospital and a doctor's giving Benson and stable or the walk and Talk breakdown. She's a seven year old girl with a subdural hematoma, and there's evidence that indicates the pressure's been building for hours. And I will say personal experience, My mom fell in a restaurant in San Francisco because she wears dumb shoes. Like she never wears shoes with any support. She's completely style overfunction and she sounds so
shocking to me. Oh yeah, she'll buy like if she finds cute little flats with no support for her arches, she'll buy them in seven colors. So she fell in these shoes, hit like fell. We didn't even realize she didn't really she hit her head. She just fell with like such a velocity that like a couple of weeks later she had a subdural hematoma and like thank god they found it because those can like be really bad and she had to get like she had to get it like drained or I don't know what they do,
but it was like she was in the hospital. It was like really scary, and it was fully she had not hit her head. She had just fallen with like a the way that your brain can like smack to the back of your skull.
I guess if you're in a bad fall. But does she wear like comfortable doctor shoes.
No, that's the thing. And like we went to Europe one time and I was like, can you please wear sneakers and she was like, m she loves like ballet flats and loafers and stuff like that, but like the not with any support, so wild, that's crazy. I had my sister and I one year for Christmas got her like nice loafers from like a fancier place that like had like you know, arch support, and she was like thanks, but like I don't know if she ever wore them,
Like she's crazy. But that's the story about a subdirl anyway. Subdirl hematomas are scary because they just can like build them pressure underneath your skull forever until something bad happens. Anyway, Emily did not fall in a restaurant. The doctor says it is blunt trauma and she has fractured ribs, pelvic bruising and vaginal trauma indicates sexual assault. Oh terrible. And
then we see mom hysterical on a couch nearby. She's got douche son Justin and the little cutie Michael is next to her, and the father is out of town on business, and Benson's like, so have a nice weekend, and Stabler's like, I don't remember having a weekend, and these are just the hard hitting jokes that I think we can expect to get at the end of a
cold open in season two. So we are at the top of act one, the mom, whose name is Jamie, is crying to Benson and Stabler, and we find out that Emily had just gotten back from a visit with her dad, so she is from a previous relationship. Justin is her step son, so her husband's son, and then Michael is her child with her current husband, so they're like a very blended family. And then Justin is you know,
giving insane attitude like can we go now? I have a quiz and trig And it's like really annoying to watch him because well because even.
If it's not your stepsister and it's just a random little girl, like would she at least be like, I hope she's okay.
Yeah, It's like he has no feeling, he has like no empathy, Like it's weird. And he is the kind of kid that Stabler loves to fuck with. So like you can see Stabler's like little eyebrows like perk up, like I'm going to fucking punch this kid at some point. And then Emily's dad, Denny Correa, shows up and he is played by Yancey Arius who has an extensive IMDb, and you know, the wife, Jamie and Denny immediately start fighting and he wants to see the little girl, and
the mom's like, get out of here. And Jamie tells Benson and Stabler that Denny's always had a problem with his anger, but since she got married to her current husband, it's escalated. So now we're with Stabler and he's talking to Denny and he's like, she watched The Lion King all afternoon and then I cooked her a quick dinner and her mom picked her up, and he throws an accusation out at Jamie's husband, whose name is Randall McKenna,
and he's like, he touches Emily. I saw the bruises, and he asked Emily what happened, and she started to cry, and so Denny reported it, but Jamie told the caseworker that it was Denny, and Jamie like wants what she wants no matter who it hurts, is what he says, and so like she was able to twist his report onto him. So at the precinct, Stabler tells us that Emily's abuse is long term, but that the head injury is from a window of ten to twenty four hours
before she was admitted to the hospital. The rape kit turned up a hair and a nylon bristle embedded in abrasions on her butt.
So click who wrote that that's insane? I know, a hair bristle in a butt like that is so such a wild detail.
Even fres view.
It is such a wild detail. But when I hear it, I'm like, oh, so somebody got spanked with a hair brush, Like that's what I immediately think, Like I wouldn't think that that was like a sexual thing, But they talk about this later in the episode. So anyway, Finn and Munch are both in a shirt and side us code was much more you know, strict back in the early seasons. I would say, we have not yet seen you know,
Finn's leather blazer that he wears all the time. So in this window of time, she was with her mom's family and her dad's family. So it's really hard to narrow down like who could have done it because she was, you know, bleeding internally, and so we don't know like when this happened, Denny. We find out as a Cuban immigrant who did time for assault in nineteen ninety three, and now he works as a cook at the Greenbrier School,
which is the school where Emily goes. And the stepdad, Randall McKenna's a Wall Street guy like mister money Bags. And we find out that Michael, the little guy who's like four, is disabled nonverbal, and that Justin is fifteen. So that's like the stats on the family, and Randall the rich man is still on in DC on business. So then munch says, which brings us back to Desi, which is referencing Desi Arnez. I guess because he's also Cuban. This joke would not fly today. But this is a
very much joke heavy up episode. I'm calling his little joke munchables. I don't know. We can brainstorm some other ideas, so no munchables. That is our new fucking merch. Are you kidding me? Munchables. It would have a little.
Sunglasses, a little like a little mic a spy kit.
I don't know. I guess I'm not a coffee like something, yeah something. Jfk oh Wait doesn't he like fig milkshakes. He likes fig shakes. Anyway, so munchable, bungeable. So after this little bunch of ble, we get Finn being like, okay, so how did this society chick and this like cook end up together? You know, like, and it's the tail.
As I was thinking, we're all thinking, yeah, maybe it's racism, maybe it's you know, whatever we're thinking, but we all thought.
It right, And the answer is the tale as old as time. Rehab. She was there kicking an amphetamine habit, and he was teaching a dance class. And that's funny to me, Like I love a zoomba class, and I hope that I bet you he had a very popular class because he's like cute.
When I worked at Fat Camp, we had a dancer from France and we learned dance moves to Estelle's American Boy.
Oh yeah, he.
Was the hit of the camp.
I would say, he didn't speak English and he would just break dance and we loved it.
I love that.
Well, that's what this.
Reminded me of. Okay, so he is the French counselor at Fat Camp, essentially at rehab, and he got her pregnant and the mother made the rehab fire. Denny and the mother is Lois Huntington, the chair of the Avery Huntington Foundation. She is the widow of the late ambassador. Okay, so now we're really getting an idea of how like high up level Jamie is like her dad was an ambassador. But also you're not supposed to like fuck the patients
at the rehab where you teach dance, you know. But he's not a doctor or therapist.
It's not like he's signed a thing like it's did but it's not illegal.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
No one's underage, so it could be like unethical or so, but not really. You know, it's like it's the arts and crafts teaching.
And you're not in power, right and no one's under the influence because you're at rehab, you know, getting clean. So anyway, Kragan's like everybody get working or the rich people are gonna be up my ass, which is usually that's like a very Kragan thing, is like, oh shit, this involves rich people. Let's get going. They're gonna come
after me. So now we're at an apartment with a great view but very old style and furnishings, and Lois Huntington has like the helmet hair and she's telling the detectives that Denny took advantage of Jamie when she was vulnerable, and a butler is serving them tea. I like how they mix it up, Like a lot of times there's maids. You know, we've talked about old school made outfits versus plain clothes maids outfits, and this is a full on butler.
This is a man serving them tea, and Olivia it just like takes a cup of tea while she's being served and while she's questioning the witness, and it's very funny. So there's a frame picture of Bill Clinton on the side table next to Stabler, and I just thought that was wild. And also a listener did send us a screenshot of a photo on Benson's desk of Benson and Obama together, which is obviously Marishka and Obama together, but
it's added Benson meet Obama. I'd love to know. And the backlog anyway, Lois explains that she tried to get Jamie to aboard the pregnancy and they're like, okay, well when did this addiction start? And she's like, oh please, their prescription diet pills. Like she's downplaying the fuck out of the addiction, like it's not a big deal. She said. Jamie had a discipline problem, and she was an only
child and her father indulged her. She was daddy's little girl, and when he died, she became badly behaved, and so she shipped her off to boarding school at eleven. And that's pretty early to go to boarding school. I guess there are like boarding middle schools, but that's young. Usually start in high school at like fourteen. But then the mother says, well, at least the pregnancy straightened Jamie out,
she said. After Jamie filed for custody, Denny broke three bones in Randall's face and threatened to kill him, and Randall offered Denny a deal. He goes, if you will give up custody of Emily to us, I will not file charges against you for, you know, breaking my nose in three places or whatever. And the deal expires on Friday, so we are in the middle of the deal time period, and Denny has until then to sign the papers. Lois hopes that Denny refuses and gets the jail time he
deserves and calls him a vile creature. But I bet if he was a white fry cook she'd be like, fine, let's get you a job in the mailroom at the foundation. You know, she'd help him out more. But she's probably a very racist woman. So now we are at ACS and we're talking to a social worker and she is very familiar, this woman, and I looked her up. Her name is Michelle Hurst, and this is her second of five SVU episodes she's done, so that's where I know
her from. She was also in season one of Orange is a New Black, but I don't remember her character because that seems like a million years ago to me. But she's done original recipe, lawn order, she's done criminal intent. She's a dick wolf baby. So they gave joint custody to Denny when Emily was a little baby because Jamie was still struggling with her addiction and the baby was sick. And then Lois, it turns out, not only supported this arrangement but used her connections to make it like go
through faster. So about a year ago, Jamie started challenging the custody arrangement and they investigated these claims of abuse,
but they couldn't find anything. And Finn's like, uh, broken bones, and She's like dude, kids are clumsy as hell, like get out of here, like their kids have broken bones all the time, like riding a bike, like I don't know what to tell you, And Munch really tries to sass this woman likes that how you sleep at night, and she goes, oh me, I haven't had a good night's sleep in ten years, Like, don't even try to
come for me, Like my life is terrible. I work at ACS and it is really tough because ACS does fuck up, and they are also underpaid and overworked. So like, we've talked about this in previous episodes, and I'm sure we will again today. So at the Greenbrier School, the principal is filling in Munch and Finn about how Denny works three shifts in the kitchen, but he never misses
going to storytime in Emily's classroom. He sounds like a very hard working dad, but this principle clearly is like on his side, and they're like weak.
I knew it, Michelle Hurst, she's in Sex in the City as well.
I just looked at it. Yeah, I fucking knew it. So what's her episode?
I'm pretty sure it's the one where Samantha takes an AIDS test. Yes, she's the nurse that takes her in to be like what kind of condoms and like can you not?
Can you just wear a condom?
You know?
Yeah, that was yes. I think I saw really quickly that she was in Sex and the City and I was like, oh, nurse. Maybe that was like just a tiny part, but that is a very like I remember that episode very very well. Actually it's just not her part, I guess. All right, So they're asking the principle about the report she filed, because I guess she filed the report with ACS, and she says, yeah, I have to report all injuries, but she said Emily broke her leg
learning to ride a bike. And the principal is like, really going to bat for Denny. She's known him for six years and all that time she's never even heard him like raise his voice at Emily, and so she's like, Okay, well who else hangs with Emily? And then here we go with the fucking unhinged plot point. Oh yeah, this loose man named Henry Aboden. He's the Minister of Protocol for the Brunei Mission. He's a friend of the school and he's taken a special interest in Emily, and that's
not a red flag at all. He takes her to dance class, reads, he reads to her. They just love each other. It's a platonic love between a seven year old girl and an adult man. I really just cannot So she's basically skywriting the word pedophile over them. And then this clueless principle directs them to this little girl named Jennifer, and she's like, that's Emily's best friend. Like they're frickin' frack, like, go talk to her. So now munch is talking to Jennifer. And this girl, Jennifer was
actually kind of a successful child actress. She was in Cider House Rules and The Patriot and the show twenty four but she does not act anymore. But I just noticed shed like an impressive like run as a child. Anyway, she thinks the name munch is funny, and she is correct, and she says and he goes, well, what about this. If I ever have kids, I'm gonna have to call the Munchkins another Munchable. And he's absolutely killing it with a seven year old. She loves him. She's immediately warm
to this old end up comedian wearing dark glasses. I get uncomfortable when the detectives like talk down to children and do their little child act. It makes me feel weird. Yeah, I think because honestly, I will say, I think that's because there's a movement now that's more modern to talk to kids like respectfully and like in a way like not like an adult, but like not that they're like baby talk, you know, And I think that's more modern. And so in this show, like they do capture a
lot of like and what about your friend? Anything about you know, like that I like it. It's like, yeah, it's it's cringey. So he brings up Emily and he's like and she's like, yeah, Henry takes her to shows, buys her toys like I want She's like, I want a Henry, you know. And then he says Emily's dad was mad because her mommy was trying to take Emily away and he was taking her on a trip to Cuba. So this girl's got like all the tea and she is spilling it in this like classroom. So then this
poor girl is like, Okay, we're best friends. Now do you want to see my barbie with hair that grows? And Munch is like nah, I got what I needed. I'll see you later, like he just fully. I'm like, Munch, take two seconds and look at her little Barbie doll. But then Munch can't get up out of the little kid's chair, and it's very funny. So we're getting a lot of Munch physical and verbal comedy in this episode.
At the precinct, to the two duos Munch and Finn and Benson and Stabl are like filling each other in and they noticed Munch is kind of win sing and he like, I think he's like still in pain because he couldn't because he had to sit in a little kid chair, and he goes, now, I'm a pain in my own ass, Munch of all. So Finn found the two one way tickets to Cuba via Quebec in Emily and Denny's names. So turns out the little girl had
the goods. And so now Munch and Stable are talking to Denny and he's like, I just wanted to get Emily away from her abuser, and they're like, so you beat the shit out of him, and he's like, I just want to talk to him to see if I could shame in him into leaving my daughter alone. Then he pushed me. It happened so fast. They bring up his past arrest. They're like, you beat up a store clerk and he was like he was trying to shoot me, and they were like, you were robbing his store, and
he goes, I was hungry. I just affected from Cuba. Your government says welcome to America, goodbye and good luck, and it's like, yes, that is absolutely what they do, for sure. That's also what they do with babies, like we do a lot of bullshit, and uh so that's us.
Yeah, that's It's been embarrassing for sure, being from America across the pond.
Really, it's like.
Everyone's like ew or like I met a cab driver and he go I was like, where are you from? He goes, well, Serbia and then your country bombed us and I went, sorry.
About that fair enough.
And then one of the other people I met was like, you know, America's crazy. I go, yes, I'm not, like yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it.
No.
I remember I remember back in when I want to on my semester abroad and stuff, I would like meet. I would hear people with what I thought were English American accents, and I would go, oh, are you guys from the States, And they'd be like, we're from Canada. Like they would get like offended, and I'd be like that was the first time, when I was twenty years old, when I went abroad to Italy, that I realized people didn't like America. I was like, I just like, you know,
what did I know? Like up until that point, like I hadn't really left the country much. But America's Regina George. They're like obsessed with us.
They know all our leadership, they know all our news, they talk about us, they watch our movies, they love our music, but then they hate our guts because we're lunatics.
We're bullying. Yeah, it's like who has been physically who has been physically harmed by Regina George and the entire world is raising their hand.
Yeah, but they can't get enough. They're just like ooh, Michael Jordan, you know, and then we're like okay.
And then now we're bombing you.
Yeah.
So it's weird.
Yeah, So you are starting to like feel for Denny because you're like, yeah, that sucks. You have a record because you like tried to steal a bag of chips because you were starving. You know, like, and they're like, but if you're such a victim, why does everyone else get hurt? And Munch accuses him of breaking Emily's leg and he's like, I would never hurt my daughter, and they're like right, like Randall the store clerk, Jamie, why
don't you just tell us the truth? And Daddy Kragan like busts into grab them and he's like, bad news. Lab results clear, Denny. The blood doesn't match the hair from the rape kit, and I guess that's that. So
Denny's in the clear. So at a meeting, Craigan is standing next to doctor Emil Skoda Akajk Simmons baby, and he is mostly an original recipe guy, but he has been in six episodes of Best for You, and he was kind of the He was the Huang before Huang, the pre Huang Hwang, And so Cragan says they have to reassess the profile now that Denny has been eliminated, and doctor Scota explains that whoever did this must have a finely tuned social radar to be able to navigate
the two families and social groups in Emily's life, like, you know, there's the dad's side and the mom's side, so this is about displaced rage. He says sexual inadequacies or abuse the in the perpetrator's own childhood and his insecurities drive his abusive behavior, but they could also drive him to excel in other areas, so he could be the head of a fortune five hundred company. So that
obviously is like alarm bells. Randall the rich daddy, the stepdaddy, and as we've discussed in former episodes, always beware of a stepdaddy. And then it turns out his plane didn't leave for DC until Monday morning, so it's possible he was home the night that she was, you know, hurt. And so now they're looking back at Harry Aboden as well. And I looked up Brunei because this guy is the Minister for Protocol for the mission to Brunei. I don't
know what any of that means. And Brunei is this like tiny nation of four hundred thousand people that's on the island of Borneo in Southeast Asia. So Borneo is part of Malaysia, I believe, and then Brunei is like its own little tiny country in it on this island. So I just thought that was interesting. It's very small. Benson and Stabler finally go visit the rich stepdaddy Randall McKenna, and in a classic lawn order fashion, he does not have times for the cops. He has to be a
thirty Rock in forty minutes. Okay, they've been married for three years and Lois was a client and introduced so Jamie's mom. Lois was his client and was like, oh, you should meet my daughter with a daughter. And they do have a four year old son, so clearly the pregnancy fast tracked the marriage if they've only been married for three years, like stablish like we did the math. And also, I want to shame you because I'm weirdly
Catholic about this kind of stuff. And they bring up Denny's accusations and he denies it all like he's like, I have not touched her, and they're like, okay, cool, give us DNA and he's like, you've already insulted me. I'm not going to let you invade my privacy too. So he lawyers up and leaves for his meeting at thirty Rock, and then Munch and Finn are at the Brunei Place. I don't know what this is like it's like, I don't know if you're like an ambassador or diplomat.
I don't really get what it is. And Munch is back with the Zingers. He like points to one of the statues and he goes, I've got one of those hanging from a rope in my shower, but it does a spring fresh scent. Okay much? And then Abidin shows up and Finn introduces himself, and this man tells us that Tutuola means the gentle one in Yorubin, and I love that for Finn, and Finn is also very very impressed that this man like knows your Ruben and knows
what his last name means. So John munches, so Munch goes, I'm John Munch. It's Romanian for the handsome one, zing Like, we're just it's non stop with him today, and he talks about how he took Emily to a matinee of the Lion King. So I was confused because the dad said she watched the Lion King in the afternoon, but I guess she was at a matinee with her random benefactor.
And then he brought her home to her father's house and lois her grandmother was with them at the theater and his driver drove them, so he's got witnesses like he really didn't have opportunity to like molest or hurt this girl. And then they're like, oh, does Danny know that grandma comes on these field trips, And they're like, we thought it would be better to like keep that from him since he's like not in a great relationship
with the family. So even though this grandma was like aboard aboard, now she's like, you know, at the Lion King Matinee is with her granddaughter, so I guess she does have like some kind of blood pumping in that black heart of hers and so not that it's bad to ask your daughter to get an abortion, and she just seems like mean anyway. Uh So we go to visit douchebag Justin at school and he is like such a future fucking date rapist. I can't even handle it.
Like he's like, I don't know anything, I was asleep, and Justin's like, yeah, they argue all the time. That's why my Dunn ever comes home anymore, Like he's he's got some anger, but he also seems like just an asshole. So now at the precinct. Abiden has agreed to a DNA test, so that kind of makes him look pretty good. He's like, yeah, take it, take my spit, let's do it. And Randall is fighting it and that makes him look guilty.
So Cabot is meeting with Petrofsky in the morning about the court order for Stepdaddy's DNA and Emily is still in a coma, and Stabler makes a comment that Emily's probably safer in the hospital than she is at home, and then the camera like stays on Munch for an extra beat, so like you we're kind of seeing like he's pondering, like we're we're seeing how this case is like affecting him. So at the hospital, Munch is visiting
Emily and it's very sad. She's hooked up to machines that she's got the all the way around bandages, and Munch that we when it's on a grown man who just got his dick cut off, it's funny, but when it's on a little kid, it's a little bit more sad. And then Munch brings her a stuffed lion and puts it next to her bed, which is like cute. That's like a symbol of courage and stuff, and it's very cute.
I do love when you know that there's going to be a personal connection with the detective. You know what I mean, We're going to get a tail at the end of this. Why much caretting up this kid the most exactly?
They're setting this up like like this time it's personal
for Munch. So now we're in Petrovski's chambers with Cabot and Randall McKenna's lawyer, and the lawyer's arguing they have not proved that there was exclusive opportunity and it's like, dude, he lives with the victim, there is exclusive opportunity all night as they sleep in the same apartment together, and Cabot fucking kills it, and Petrovsky's like, yeah, bring that Wall Street sack of shit in here for the swab, Like I'm going with Cabot on the.
See sv tattoo is going to be a heart with Petrovsky in the banner.
I would love for you to not have to explain that to people, just like she's this dope ass judge. Her name's Joanna Merlin. We love her. You think that would be so funny?
I obviously love our detectives, but I feel weird having like a like you know, we're a cab at heart.
Yeah, it's kind of done. It's like and it's basic, Like I think to take a staple character who is amazing but not a cast member, that's a move.
I like it.
Yeah, this is the first time.
Every time you say Petrovsky, we do get joy like, we do get excited.
Yeah, she's such a great actor. I think she teaches too. Oh can you imagine. So now they're all chatting about the case and Stabler gets a call that Randall McKenna is in critical condition at Mercy General. Twist what has happened? And he has a slilly cerebral hemorrhage from blunt force trauma. Basically, he got his ass beat. So Munch is at Denny's apartment building being let upstairs by this very loud woman.
I don't want to be like, speak out of school, But does she seem like she's Russian or Russian adjacent? The woman she's like, oh, yes, he loves a daughter, like she's just like seems like an old Russian lady who would like that's the landlord. And at one point she doesn't hear what Munch says, and he asks her a question more loudly, and she goes, you'll don't have to shout, And they're just like pouring the comedy into
this episode because otherwise it's a dark ass episode. So anyway, Finn and Munch go through Emily's room at Denny's house. She has a really sweet little room in his house, and he picks up a copy of Oh the Places You'll Go, And then they get a call from Benson that Denny got caught trying to sneak in the hospital to see Emily, and so Finn goes, hope he said his goodbyes, and we panned to Finn. He's like holding this T shirt that is covered in blood, and it's like, dog,
that's a fucking Haynes T shirt. Like throw it out the window. You're most likely to get caught. Like why are you keeping a blood soap shirt in your apartment? Anyway, crime one oh one? You know. So Benson and Stabler are now interrogating Denny and he's like, I didn't mean to hurt him. Friday is the deadline. I could not hand my daughter over to a man who's molesting her. Jamie told him that he broke the deal and that
Randal was going to press the charges anyway. So he went to go and try to talk to Randall man to man, and he got stopped in the lobby by security. So he waited for Randall by his car, and then when he finally came out at almost midnight, he said, when he first saw Denny, he started screaming at him and said, I'm gonna charge you with harassment, and then he begged Randall, please don't do this, and Randall laughed.
And we all know how men go fucking see red when someone laughs at them, So he said he laughed at him and said, Jamie's mother knows people at the State Department, like you're deported, you're out of here. And Denny just loses it, and like, what.
An evil piece of shit to laugh, Like this man just wants to be with his child, Like do you really you're gonna laugh at him?
Fucking yeah, smack his ass. I would smack his ass. It's horrible. So yeah, he loses it. He's on top of Randall, he's pummeling him with punches, and then he kind of realized this guy's not moving anymore. So he called nine one one. It's like, he's not cold blooded. I think he really did like sea red and just go nuts. And then he called and he also thinks he's punching a man who's been like systematically abusing his daughter for years, So he calls nine one one.
He goes home.
He keeps his bloody Hanes T shirt, but he changed close and then he just said he wanted to see Emily one more time before he turned himself in. And I don't know I believe him. And Benson said, you did a real number on him, and Denny replies, no, worse than what he did to my baby. So kind of got you there, Benson. And then Cragan is telling the gang that Denny should have let the system work for him. It's like lol, like come on, and Munch is like, yeah, he doesn't really have a great track
record with the system. I can understand why he sort of went vigilante. And then Benson tells them that the hair sample in the rape kit came from a hair brush, So there's I guess there was a hair and there was a bristle, and the bristles from a hair brush, and so the hair sample was also in the hair brush and it comes from a member of Randall's blood line. It's not from Randall, but it's from someone in his blood line, so uh oh, that points to douchebag Justin.
So at the McKenna home, Jamie is whining how she's a victim and her whole family has suffered enough, and Munch is in Emily's room. Now now we're in Emily's other room at her mom's house, and he opens up this little jewelry box that's like playing music, and he
finds this old hospital bracelet in there. And then as he's leaving, this is like a haunting moment, he sees the four year old little Michael, who's nonverbal, in the hallway, and the kid's just looking at him with this like really like sad look like the kid just looks really sad, and you never know why that could be, but you're just like, oh, something is fucked up here, and this kid can't even talk about it because he doesn't talk.
And so Stabler is now searching Justin's room and he finds a hairbrush, just as Justin walks in and goes, what the help, bro, that's mine, and Stabler's face is like if you fucking think it's beneath me to bitch lap a fifteen year old, you are so wrong. Like, I just love how Stabler looks like he really wants to kill this kid the whole time. And so now they've got Justin in interrogation and he lays it all out and this is actually a very funny line from
this juchhey kid. He goes, none of this would be happening if that bitch hadn't sucked my dad into her crappy life. I just thought that was like a really funny like, yeah, yeah, this woman sucked my dad to her crappy life. But you know, he just doesn't like a step mom, it seems. And he says, all Emily does is cry and it's annoying, and everything was fine until she showed up, and now it all sucks and
I just want them to go away. He just wants to go back to, like we don't know where his mom is, but he just wants to go back to like being with his dad. And so Jamie is telling Benson how she has come home before and found Emily crying with Justin just standing over her, and she knew he was like a resentful little fuck, but she never thought he was like full on abusing her. So this is all news to Jamie. She's very doe. I like,
I could not have imagined this. And then when asked about the arguing between her and her husband, she said, if we argued about anything, it was just about Justin's attitude towards Emily. So she's all the stuff that was never brought up before. She's now fully fueling the cops theory that Justin had something to do with this. So Jamie tells Olivia that after she put Emily to bed that night, she took Michael to the drug store to refill his asthma medication and the line was so long
and it took them an hour to get home. Her husband was at the office, and so that would be a pretty long window where Emily was with Justin alone, and Jamie's like, I looked in on her before I went to bed. She looked so peaceful. It's like, yes, she was already in a coma, like, so she did look peaceful. And now she's blaming herself, like, how could I have been so blind? Like YadA YadA. She's you know, definitely dramatic, this woman, and so behind the one way glass.
Stabler is letting Craigan and Munch know that they got a hit on the hair and it is Justin's DNA and maybe that's why Dad resisted giving up his sample to protect his son. And so they decide to throw Justin in a cell for a little while and see if they can like scared straight him into a confession. And so they lead him through the precinct right past his stepmom and she's like literally going for the SVU Teacher's pat Award. She's like, anything else I can do.
I could write out my statement, like she doesn't want to leave, it seems, and Olivia's like, we're all good, Like you know, we've got you on tape where we don't need you to write it out, Like you can get out of here with your small son. So she leaves with Michael and Munch is like wow, she almost seems like disappointed. And Olivia is in like a just
a fashion moment. Olivia is in like a wine colored I could say purple, but it is a little bit darker, high necked sleepless number that like really shows off her arms. It's like very two thousand, I feel like, and she's defending Jamie. She's like, listen, her husband may never walk, her daughter's in a coma, her steps on's facing jail time, and her ex is being deported. She's not disappointed, She's numb.
And Finn's like, okay, Munch, like, what's your theory? You seem like you want to say something, so what like give it up? And Munch is like okay, Well, first off, where are the hospital records that show all of this ongoing abuse? And then he shows them the hospital bracelet he found in the jewelry box and it has the
name Erica Smith on it, so what's going on? So they go to that clinic that matches the hospital bracelet, the Hudson Free Clinic, and a nurse finds the record that Erica Smith came in for vaginal bleeding and was prescribed in antibacterial ointment and sent home. I'm like what. They're like, didn't you suspect abuse? She's like, yeah, we filed a report, but like no one filed followed up, you know, probably because it's a fake name. And then
they're like, well do they leave an address? And the nurses like yeah, the address is right there, and Finn's like okay, well, this is in the middle of the East River, and I'm like, so are many of the SVU locations, Like some of the locations are like one thousand East forty fourth Street. You're like, that is in Connecticut. So anyway, Finn goes, you thinking what I'm thinking, and Munch goes, we've been had, which I like their old school like detective shtick that they have going on there,
and so they bust out of there. Finn and Munch are back at the precinct revealing what they found out, which is that Erica Smith is Emily. They found matches at four different clinics and hospitals, different aliases, always paid in cash, et cetera. So Munch breaks it down and is like, we've been focusing on a mail attacker because of the quote unquote like sexual abuse. But what if it was Jamie and the injuries aren't even sexual like?
And so Craigan goes, well, that's one way to ensure custody, like is to abuse the kid and then pin it on your ex. And Olivia's like, and if the daughter dies in the process, And then in slides E Meal Scota JK. Simmons wearing an aggressive Navy turtleneck and blazer, and he's like, that would be a bonus, Like if this woman doesn't give a shit about her kids, and her daughter is a means to an end, and that
end is attention. And he explains that people who have suffered abuse in childhood tend to repeat this pattern and that in this case it's kind of an extreme one because the rage is so apparent, but in the end, she's just wrapping herself in the warm cloak of victimhood, he says. And Stabler's like, well, then why hide it with all these aliases in shady hospital visits, Like you know, that's kind of why these people will do, like the long term poisoning with the leukemia and stuff like that,
to get all the attention out in the open. And he's like, well, it was to control the outcome. Like now she can kind of help pin it on whoever she needs to so that she doesn't get in trouble for anything. And so now we're back talking to punk ass Justin and he's like whatever, like he will not talk or help and Stabler's like, you little shit, we
are actually trying to help you. So if you could like just fucking stop being a dick for a second, you're gonna you won't end up throwing touchdowns in the prison tag football league. So he's like, look, I have no idea how long Jamie was gone. The minute she left, I went for a run in the park because I was bored as hell, and I'm sure people saw me, but I didn't take names. Like this kid is like fucking the worst. And he said he was gone an hour.
He describes his root where he ran, and then like when he got home, his stepmother chewed him out for leaving his sister alone, and he's like, who cares she was asleep, and it's like, I don't know. I just feel like, you know, you don't leave a seven year old at home in a New York apartment. But Munch is like, okay, so Jamie could have hurt Emily before Justin got home. But Daddy Craigan is like, this is just more finger pointing, like we need proof, baby, And
so Finn's like, what about the druggist? And I had not really heard that before, but that is a sexier name for a pharmacist. And so they go check in with this nosy door man, and we do love a nosy doorman around here. So he is a wonderful SVU staple character. And this guy is like a full svew
TikTok parody. He never stops unloading bags, like while he's talking to the cops, Like we barely see a shot of this actor's face because he's just constantly like removing bags from a car while delivering a full monologue about this family. And he's like, yeah, Jamie left with little Michael. Then Justin left one on a run. I told him don't go to the park, but he doesn't remember Jamie coming back, but it could have been while he was taking a powder. And I just I can't with a
man talking about taking a powder. But here we are. Munch shows up with interesting info from the pharmacist. He said that the receipt actually shows that she came after closing. She called up and bitched and moaned about like coming in to get this refill. So he stayed open for her and she was in and out in five minutes, so there was none of this hour long wait bullshit
that she told them. So back at the precinct, everyone's in a big meeting and Cabot is like, guys, this is not enough like, even if we could prove she took Emily to all those hospital visits, you can't bootstrap aggravated a child abuse to her conduct without a more definitive causal link. Munch is like, well, Scota said, this is about a need for attention, and I gave her my pager number, and guess who's been paging me. And it looks like she's jones in for a sympathy fix.
And they're like, well, what are you thinking, and Munch is like, feed the junkie. So now Munch brings in Jamie. He's got her an interrogation. Everyone's watching on the other side of the glass. It's like the entertainment for the evening. And he's like, we're going to get Justin out here and get him home to you. I mean, if that's cool with you, if you're going to take him back, and she's like, I don't know. He scares me. He might hurt Emily again just to get back at me.
And he says it must be tough to be an outcast in your own home, and Jamie's like, you don't know the half of it, and he goes, actually I do, and he plops a folder down in front of her, and it's her file from when she was a kid, and boy, she is delighted to see it, Like she acts like somebody wrote a biography about her and she's just getting a chance to look at it for the first time. And she has very two thousand's eyebrows. This woman too, like they are thin and barely their eyebrows.
And so he says to her, Yeah, she goes, I thought it was sealed. I thought my record was sealed, and he goes, I got it from a friend in children's services who remembered you and said that all her superiors were nervous about investigating an ambassador for sexually abusing his eleven year old daughter. So twist like we're finding out that Jamie has not had a wonderful childhood. Munch is like really handling her, like he's really like that must have been so hard for you. And then he's like,
and how did your mother take it on? And she was like, well, she was just jealous because daddy couldn't stand to touch her. And it's like, yes, because he was a pedophile and your mother was far too old for him. So that's what happened, Yeah, and that's why she got sent to boarding school. She said she begged not to go. But what mother wants mother gets, and that to me like echoes a little bit what Denny said about Jamie at the beginning, Like what Jamie wants,
Jamie gets, no matter who it hurts. He said something to that effect. So it's just interesting how this generational trauma happens. And so then Munch tells Jamie that he's like, well, here's the thing. Emily came out of her coma and she told us everything, and so you could see her face be like, oh fuck. So then Munch is like, okay, let's talk hairbrush, and she's like it's Justin's and he's like, but with Emily's testimony, and she's like, Emily is a liar.
Like suddenly we're, you know, defaming our seven year old coma daughter. And she starts telling much how Denny has poisoned Emily against her, and Munch is like, it's okay, just tell me your side, and Jamie's like, okay. We were driving home and Emily wouldn't stop crying, so she pulled over to talk to her, and that's when Emily
told her about the Cuba trip. And so she pulled her out of the car and Emily hit her head on the curb and Munch is like, come on, girl, and then she admits, Okay, I shoved her, but not hard. I just wanted her to stop whining. So he's like, okay, well did it work, and she goes it was the first time she was quiet all day. She was really sleepy, so I put her to bed when we got home, but then when I came back from the drug store,
she was crying again. I told her she had to be a good girl so her new daddy would love her too, but she wouldn't stop, and she was doing it to spite me, which is like, I mean, trust me. I have dealt with four meltdowns from my three year old in the past forty eight hours that were epic, going on forty five minutes, like unconsolable meltdowns like it's not about you, Like it's just not about you. It's never about you. They're not doing anything to spite you. They are.
Yeah, kids having aren't there yet, and if they are, then there should be a movie about them being the devil. Like I don't think a three year old has those parts of their brain right out.
Yeah, right, no, for sure. So then she said, I use the hairbrush to discipline her, and my mom used a hairbrush on me. But Emily just kept screaming. And it's like this because you're spanking her with a fucking hair brush. And perhaps it's also because she had a massive like blood clot forming under her skull and that was a little bit painful. So she said, Emily was screaming louder and louder. What was she supposed to do?
And then Munch said the only thing you could do, and then her face changes, like her face like drops into like evil face, and she's like and it's like, okay, Munch, this is what you wanted and here it is, and she just goes. I threw her against the wall. So she said, Emily finally stopped crying and she tucked her into bed, kissed her on the cheek and told her she loved her. And she's like, I just wanted her to stop crying. Is that too much to ask? And
Munch is like, okay, I'm done charming this lady. And he's like fully disgusted. He's got his confession, and he walks out of the interrogation room and Craigan's like, good work, John, and Munch just keeps walking like this one you can tell like really hit him hard.
Well yeah, but also it's like what are they going to do? High five and be like good game.
Good game, Yeah, like we did it. Yeah, but like he did kind of that was all Munch like he got it out of her because I think he knew how to deal with her. And so Benson finds Munch on the roof and we find out that, as I suspected, at least I'm sure most people suspected, Munch bluffed about Emily, she's not out of her coma. And Munch is like, like Elivia is like, I don't know what we would have done if she had asked to see her, and Munch was like, yeah, she doesn't give a shit about
her kids. Like I knew she wasn't going to ask because she doesn't care. And Benson like, how did you know? Like how did you piece this all together? And he's like, well, when we searched the house and that four year o little boy, like that moment I talked about, She's like when he was just looking at me, it reminded me of this little girl who I lived across the street from on the Lower east Side when I was growing up, she had that same look in her eyes, sad and lost.
And she used to stand on her porch every afternoon. I've never seen a porch on the Lower east Side, but that's neither. And then maybe a stupid a soup, yeah, stoop, and so like when he came home from school, she would be standing there every day, like with a black eye, a bloody lip, and she never said anything. She just looked at Munch and he was like a teen and was like two, wrapped up in his own bullshit, he says,
and he didn't pay attention. And then one day she wasn't there, and I found out that her mother threw her through a plate glass window. And he said, I went to the funeral and I saw her dad, and that was the first time I saw a grown man cry. And they sent the mother to a sanitarium, and the mother told Munch's mother she didn't get what all the fuss was about. She was the one who had to
get a new window. So definitely a psychopath mom. And months later he'd come home and like look up at the porch and he would swear he could see the little girl standing there with that same look, and he's like really sniffling, like Munch is like getting very emotional, and it's like kind of a different look on him. And oh, I said, final scene, But this isn't the
final scene. The final scene is actually the next one where Munch goes to Emily's hospital room and she's still sitting there so tiny, with her head all bandaged up and on you know, oxygen and machines, and he sits there and starts to read to her from Oh the Places You'll Go, and then right in the middle of the doctor Seuss, we fade to black and that's Dick wolf O, a tough one. Yeah, you hope that she'll come out. You'll hope that like her brain swelling will
go down and she'll come out of it. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, is good at that? Yeah, Yeah, we'll see, we'll see.
We're hoping for the best.
Family.
Thank you for that, and we'll be back with some horrific real life true crime. Okay, So this case is about a girl named Elisa Scaredo. This happened in New York in the nineties and it's very horrific. So it was like a day before Thanksgiving nine twenty four am, and there was a call from a man saying that
a little six year old girl had stopped breathing. And then when the police, firefighters, and paramedics arrived at the Rutgers housing projects in Lower Manhattan, they found Alisa in her bed with deep red blotches all over her body and it wasn't very clear what they were, well, cigarette burns, like everyone's like, what is it?
But her entire body was covered.
On the right side of her body near the kidney was an enormous bruise, and she had other bruises on her face and around her temples, and obviously things just keep getting worse. There were wounds around her genitals and the bone of her right hand pinky was poking fully through her skin. My god, a police lieutenant with twenty two years of work experience at the time said it was the worst case of child abuse he had ever seen, and he said that to Newsweek.
So going back in.
Time, Alisa's parents met in a shelter for the homeless in nineteen eighty seven. Gus Iscardo was a Cuban immigrant. This is actually like very close to the episode. In a lot of ways. So he was a Cuban immigrant and he cleaned and served food at the homeless shelter and a Wheelda Lopez was a Puerto Rican raised in Brooklyn who landed at the shelter with her two kids
after breaking up with her boyfriend. The two started hooking up, but Gus broke it off because Lopez was fully addicted to crack and he was not for that crack lifestyle. But Alisa was born and she was fully addicted to drugs when she was born, and social workers took her away and gave custody to Gus, and Gus on all accounts, was like new for him. This was a surprise in his life. But on all accounts, a doting, caring father, like did a great job, always asking for advice, like
wanting to be a good dad. He got her into a Montessori day school. Hello, and he brushed her hair, and so everyone keeps talking like, oh, he brushed her hair, and I guess for a father, that's like huge, huge accomplishment brushing her child there. But people said he was good, and so this is very connected to the episode.
While she was at the school at the.
YWCA, the Montessori school in Brooklyn. Prince Michael of Greece wanted to like do community service work and he was looking at different organizations to get involved in. And when he went to the Montessori school, Elisa like jumped into his arms and refused to leave him and like hugged him, and so they kind of had a connection. And he was obviously like taken by this girl who like hugged
him and didn't want to leave him. He knew like little about her life, but he did want to like pay for her tuition, and he just wanted to get involved beyond money as well, and he just, yeah, he wanted to help her and take care of the tuition and stuff. And there was no like weirdness or hanky panky.
And stuff like that.
So Prince Michael of Greece had a connection with her in the school and so like while she was at school, Gus was trying to raise her and he tried to keep Lopez away, but she entered a drug rehab clinic and got married at the end of November in nineteen ninety one, and in that time she won the right to have Alisa every other weekend. But Gus and then Alisa's teachers said that she would come back from those
visits covered in bruises and very upset. She would throw up, she would refuse to walk into a bathroom, and it was like obvious what was going on.
It was only the weekends that she was with her mother.
So Alisa even told a city social worker about these attacks, but the visits were still allowed to happen on the word of her mother saying that she did not hit her daughter. So then poor Gus checked into a hospital in May nineteen ninety four and he was diagnosed with cancer and soon after died. Yeah, this is like a fucking Cinderella nightmare. Hans Christiananzersen like story. Yeah, And so they sent Alisa to her mother, which is very, very
fucked up. She at this point had five children, with no job and no partner because her husband went to prison for stabbing her seventeen times with a pocket knife.
Oh my god.
And everyone tried to counter this decision, like Gus's cousin, Elsa Connie Zadis, went to court seeking custody. The head of Elisa's school wrote to the family court judge Phoebe Greenbaum in support of the cousin to get custody and to attest to all the abuse. But the court and this dumb bitch just gave custody to the birth mother. And even Prince Michael got involved and was like, if you give her to the cousin, like, I will financially support.
Like everyone was begging to take this daughter away from the mother and this fucking judge didn't. The judge in the case said that the child welfare people advised her to give custody to the mother, but Child Welfare CWA remained silent on the matter and cited confidentiality laws and refused to confirm or deny. But the judge said the child welfare advised her to give custody to the mother.
So pretty horrific.
Now, a little background, So, like, these confidentiality laws are very controversial and complicated. They are there to help protect people who report child abuse. They're also there to protect those accused unfairly and privacy of the victims. But mostly these laws seem to be to protect the government agencies
over everything. The New York Times had a quote that said, too often the confidentiality shield is used by the bureaucracy to sort of cover itself, and that was said by the former City hr commissioner from the nineteen eighties, William J.
Grinker.
He believes that once a child dies, the need for confidentiality is no longer paramount, and if you know what went wrong, then you can prevent other deaths. But we'll get more into the laws and what happened after Elisa's death. But Alisa's decline began immediately after she went into her mother's custody. The mom pulled her out of Montessori school and enrolled her at the local public school PS one
twenty six. That school called state and city child welfare offices after being concerned with her because she was like walking unevenly and she refused to play with people or to talk to other students, and then a bunch of bruises were showing up.
So this school also.
Called child welfare and the city and state level to communicate their concern. This was the fifth time someone reported that Alisa had been abused. The state refused to investigate because there wasn't enough evidence. So then Lopez actually withdrew Alisa fully from school and she virtually disappeared. She never enrolled her in another school, rarely let her out of her room. She wasn't allowed to watch TV or eat with her half siblings, who all showed no signs of abuse.
So very very close to Nix, Maury Brown like.
I don't know what, Like I really want to do an in depth sort of psychological reading something if anyone can reach out to us and tell us, like what is this that someone picks like one child and the rest are fine.
I wonder if it was like she just hated like the how the dad like gave her such a good life, you know, it's like or you know what I mean, like, oh, you're in Montessori school, Like you're out of there now, you know. Like I don't know. Maybe it was just like because she had had like a nice life with her dad and she was resented her or something.
I don't know.
Yeah, oh this.
Is hard, but it's also happened, you know in another case we covered, So it must happen, Like there must be a real not a reason, but some sort of something psychological explanation. Yeah, like outside it so she would have to go to the bathroom in her bed and or in a pot in her room, and it overflowed so much that it leaked into the apartment below.
If you can imagine that.
Neighbors confessed that they had frequently heard screams coming from the apartment, and a few neighbors said they called child welfare authorities but nothing happened, So now more people are calling. So finally, on November twenty second, this bitch the mom was taken into custody and Alisa Esquerdo died on November twenty second, nineteen ninety five, of.
A brain hemorrhage.
The mom was like screaming in the street that she didn't do it, but basically she finally admitted that on November twentieth, she hit Alisa so hard that she flew headfirst into a concrete wall, and then after she didn't walk or talk after.
That, and then the mom.
Waited two full days before asking a neighbor to call for help. Police say she's shown little emotion since you know, like making these statements, she truly has shown no emotion. She thought that Alisa was possessed by the devil and that her evil caused her death, so she told friends that she would put snakes down her throat to exercise the demons, and she would hold her upside down using her as a mop like it is so fucked up, and then this is like very connected to the episode.
Two of her step siblings told the grand jury that the genital abrasions were caused by a hairbrush, which Lopez used to torture her. Her five siblings were placed in foster homes. Some ended up being adopted into a family, others placed in home after home, and the oldest went to live with his biological father, who was not involved in Alisa's life or death at all. And a Wheelda was charged with second degree murder and she pled guilty
on June twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six. She pled guilty to get the deal of serving fifteen years and then to become eligible for parole after that, but the following month went nevermind, bitch, you're sentenced to life. So she was sentenced to a life imprisonment. She was most recently denied parole in January twenty twenty two, and her next parole hearing is to be held in September of twenty twenty two.
Hopefully no one ever lets her.
Be released, but if it comes to it, maybe we'll write some letters to the board closer to them.
I'm also like a little bit surprised that she didn't do like in insanity defense, right, Like you thought that your daughter was possessed by the devil and you put snakes down her throat, Like that seems like you're not mentally well.
Yeah, I have no idea.
I mean, I've read somewhere, but like I couldn't really because I read that they wanted to really do a deal because they didn't want to put the other siblings through testimony and through a trial. But then some of the siblings were quoted at the grand jury, so I'm not really sure what it was.
That's why I didn't leave it in. But like that's why the deal.
Kind of happened. They wanted to seah the other kids. So also after she plaed guilty in all of that trial. In nineteen ninety six, Governor George E. Pataki he signed legislation that loosens the laws requiring secrecy in child abuse investigations, and this was a direct response from the death of Alisa is Querto. One part would require authorities to disclose information when a person is charged with child abuse and
when an abused child dies. Thus seeks to make investigators more accountable for their mistakes and then the new law also called for eliminating a statute that requires the destruction of records when an allegation of abuse is investigated but not substantiated.
So basically there's two.
Types of categories for abuse cases. One is proven and the other is unfounded. And if it's unfounded, they were able to destroy the records, but that prevented future caseworkers from knowing about previous allegations involving a child.
So that's fucked up.
So now even if something is like unfounded or not substantiated, it stays in the records. And now the records must be preserved for up to ten years after the child's nineteenth birthday, with access to those records available only to child welfare workers to help establish a pattern of abuse. My god, And you know you would think when things like this happen, you would feel guilty and want to
make changes within the system. But a bunch of the child welfare experts and civil liberties people were so mad and said that it violated privacy of people who are falsely accused.
I say, shut your fucking mouth.
Some child welfare caseworkers staged a whole protest at city Hall and in the article from The New York Times.
In nineteen ninety six.
Some of the signs said case workers don't murder children, politicians do.
And it's like, I don't know, bitch.
It seems like over you know the cut, like people, schools, diploma, the Prince, people were complaining to you and you did nothing. So like, obviously politicians and money and shit are involved, but it's like, so are you.
I just like can't see in what world a judge thinks that when there's a cousin willing to take like because I know that they try to place you with family when there's a cousin willing to take her, and you're like, no, I'm gonna put her with five other children and a woman who doesn't work and has had a history of drug abuse. It's just so I don't know, Yeah.
We we should find out if that judge is still working or what the fuck happens to her, what dumbass shit she's still doing to this day, because horrific and I hope this haunts her every waking moment of her life. And some of the people that were at this protest said, we're being framed as incompetent child killers and it's like, but children are dead, so who cares what people think about you, Like, it doesn't matter if your feelings are
hurt and you have a bad reputation. Children are dying and you're supposed to be taking care of them and you're not. And obviously I agree, like they should be treated better paid more like given.
This should be a well paying job, but it is not.
And so you know, fast forward in twenty twelve, the Office of Children and Family Services. They this whole time have been quietly working to limit access to case reports, and in two thousand and seven even tried to get the law changed. And it's like, why wouldn't you do the work, like instead of working so hard to like hide all these records for your incompetence, Why don't you
work this hard in protecting children. It doesn't make sense to me, but they did it in two thousand and eight, make a new policy that if there are living siblings or other children in the home, even if there is a fatality report, that is not in the best interest to release because for the siblings. But the fatality reports do not release names of deceased children or their caseworkers
or anybody by name. They just have a list of every complaint of abuse or neglect involving the child, so the child welfare agency's response to complaints, and an assessment of where the response was adequate, so no one's names would even ever be released to anybody, You know what I mean.
I don't understand why they're.
Working so hard for like quote unquote these like fake privacy things like The New York Times had an article one year later, like after her death, about how traumatized New York was and creating an overpowering desire to find meaning in a senseless tragedy and to find ways to save all the Lisas of the future. But they don't, you know, they fucking don't, And we we think like the Internet and Twitter and twenty four news, like news coverage has made us this quick to forget news and
move on. But it seems like it's always kind of been a part of humanity where something happens, we're distraught,
and then we forget about it. Because we covered the Nicks Marie Brown death that happened in a very eerily similar way in two thousand and six, and then the outrage subsides, and in nineteen eighty seven, a girl Lisa Steinberg died at the hands of her adoptive's father, Joel Steinberg, and the city devoted a lot of resources and commitment to training and changing the program, but eventual budget cuts are always made, and it seems like every ten years
New York has just like horrific, horrific deaths that are like fully attached but have been incompetence of these agencies and caseworker jobs have a turnover rate of forty nine percent a year.
Yeah. So no, like half the people working don't even have experience. Yeah, so this is like just like it's a fucked system. No, it's a fucked system, and it's depressing, and I mean, honestly, to bring it back to like what's going on right now, like we're going to just see more of this when you don't allow people to have reproductive rights, you know what I mean, Like the there's not systems to protect the children that we have
alive in this country, you know what I mean. And now it's like, oh, let's just force people with no resources to have more and then we'll see what happens when these agencies that are already strapped and overworked are like truly pushed to breaking point, you know. Yeah, so it's uh, but this is horrible. This is like these cases are really so fucking hard to hear about. And oh and it's like I wish her dad hadn't died. Oh my god.
Yeah, and it's just like the prolonged abuse of it all, like that so many people tried to help her, and like you can't deny the system failed her, like obviously it's the mother's faults.
She is in prison, yes, but like right, there's checks and balances for a reason, and none of them worked this time. Yeah.
Yeah, So well we have, you know, a cool guess.
Yeah. As always, we're gonna cleanse your palate with a fun convo. So stay right where you are, guys. Our guest today is a very talented actor who you've probably caught in men a TV show. He's been in everything from the New Magnum p I. He's had a spot on Law and Order Organized crime, and he was in a personal favorite of mine, Bosh. Maybe you've heard of it, but you know him from today's episode as Denny Correa. Guys, enjoy our chat with the very talented Yancey Arius.
Before we get into sview your career how cute coaching Little League?
Do you love it?
I love it, absolutely love it.
It's you know, it's weird because this year started off kind of slow. I mean, I've been auditioning through Zoom quite a bit.
I'm up for a couple of things.
Hopefully they work out, but you know, right now, I'm very focused on seeing the growth of my son in team sports and baseball particularly, and all of his teammates. They're all just wonderful kids, the great families, and I'm having a great time sharing through all of my life experience, also playing baseball since I was a kid.
That's great. So, but you live in LA now, but you were born and raised in New.
York, right, raised in New York.
It was It's so funny because this morning I had a conversation with a with a NYPD captain who's actually retiring. He's a friend of mine and a mutual friends with another military friend of mine.
I play a lot of cops.
I play a lot of military, so especially in these last ten years, and it's just been like, you know, I've befriended some very wonderful people who actually, you know, do great work and really care about the community, and so I vibe with them, you know, to help me, you know, you know, be as authentic as I possibly can for any role that they asked me to play. And so he coincidentally is from the Lower East Side,
like where I was born from. You know, just one conversation catching up, you know, with someone like that, you know how it brings you back to the city and everything that it was and what it is now. It's
incredibly different from the seventies and eighties. So it's just, yeah, I mean so much nostalgia, you know, come, you know, waves of that just keeps coming over me when I think about New York and how much I miss it and how different it is now, and you know, and being in Los Angeles now twenty years, I guess I'm kind of like an Angelino by default now, you know.
But New York is always in my heart.
Yeah, no, we feel the same. We both live in LA but are and former New Yorkers and we miss it a lot.
Do you always do so much research with your characters and like talking to like different law enforcement. Kara is a big bosh head, so you know you are the mayor y yes, sure, yeah, what's your research?
Always always a characters always always, I mean, ever since, ever since I was fourteen. One of my first coaches, Jack Romano, he was God bless his soul. He was the head of the acting department at a place called Stage.
Door Manor.
People like Natalie Portmant went there and Josh Charles and I went there with Josh, and he was amazing, and he taught us right at the get go the huge responsibility that we have as actors to play the roles as authentic and as informed as possible. And you know, he's talking to teenagers, you know, and teenagers have such a short attention span. But I knew since twelve that this was what I was going to do for the
rest of my life. I grew up growing up in New York having so much diversity, having been disposed to so many different experiences in life. You know, there was there was always a sense of service. And I had a lot of women in my family. My grandmother helped a lot of people on the Lower East Side get their paperwork, you know, to be citizens, and she was like the matriarch of the neighborhood and everybody came to her.
So I met so many wonderful people, and I saw so much service coming out of her apartment, you know that I was like, well, what can I do of service for people?
You know?
And it turned out that she threw me on stage with the blessings of my mom to sing at this
you know menudo contest. It was a lip syncing composition, but I was the only one who sang during the break and whereas people were getting up, they realized I was singing, and they all sat down before they went to the concession stand, and they followed along and they started, you know, getting into the song, and I, uh, I felt that connection for the very first time where I was, you know, giving people something to listen to and just
to enjoy for a minute. From there, I you know, my family realized I had something and they nurtured it and they helped me meet the right people like Jack Romono, James Green, and I went to Carnegie Mellon and continue my college education and there Miss Saigon continue my education. There met Alan Savage and at Miss Saigon on Broadway and he was my coach for the rest of my life. And just these people. To answer your question, yes, lots of research. I just gave you the whole on how
I got there. But yes, no, and there's a there's a big thing I like to share with any of my fellow actors or anything that I do, is basically, you know, we have a huge responsibility for for any soul that we take on because people, we're mirrors for everyone.
So you know, if if we're blessed to do a story that is based on truth or is truth or if you can find the truth in any story, you got to know that there are people out there that that actually relate with that story that you're going to be seen in.
Well, you mentioned Miss Saigon, and we obviously did a little research. You did that show for five years. At a certain point.
Is it like, like, how do you keep it going for five years?
I remember sitting my very first I had to before starting rehearsals. I had to watch the show and I sat and watched the show and I couldn't stop crying. There wasn't a minute that I wasn't crying throughout the
whole two hours, just in appreciation, you know. So I started first the first year as an understudy, and I and I followed and with the intent they had hired me with the intention to possibly take over for the role that I did was Tweet because at that point they weren't sure if the actor who was playing Tweet was going to continue with the with the show, and so I understudied a couple of times. They loved what I did, and of course I poured my heart into
that role. They saw it, they got it. And then when he was ready to leave by the second year, then I took over the role for the next three years. And so, you know, and in the interim, which brings us to why we're even having this, you know, fun conversation. I got to do a lot of great New York shows like Law and Order, Special Victims Unit, Law and Order, then the ny p D Blue and New York Undercover
at the time, and One Life to Live. I mean, I was recurring on all of these shows, and so I really didn't have have a chance to to ever you know, feel like you know, something was over. You know, I never got bored for any reason whatsoever. I was living a young guy's life, you know, in this in
this experience in theater and television film. So yeah, so I had a great time basically getting up at six in the morning, get to set at seven, you know, shoot till four o'clocks five o'clock at about an hour or two hour butt break and then get my butt to the theater and rock and roll with their you know, there.
Was like, yeah, that's a young man.
Yeah, no, I got two kids and I can't even imagine that right now. Times they are my new show right now.
Yeah, greatest production of my life.
Yeah, because I saw like on your IMDb in like ninety eight you did Law and Order Original and then you did Sopranos in ninety nine, and it's like in SVU in two thousand and I was like, this feels like that might have been the time period where you were like, Okay, I'm blowing up. Like was that like when you were like things are happening for me or what?
Well?
It was a very interesting thing because I left in two thousand and six from from Miss Saigon. But then I came back in two thousand and nine when Leaslanga came back in a couple of other originals and they and they wanted me to come back and join them, and I said, yeah, let's go. And so when I came back, I had a great time. THEO was awesome. You know, she's the original Miss Saigon on Broadway, and I got the offer for The Wild Party. I workshopped while I was doing Miss Saigon.
I worked.
I workshopped The Wild Party with Maddy Patinkin Earth a Kid, God bless her soul, Tony Collette and what pivot. The pivotal moment was right before opening night when two of my songs got cut and I was just like, you know, that probably wouldn't happen if if I had, you know, just a little bit more you know, star power in this situation, you know, And so I had just have
to go to La. And around that time, I said, I say Yla because about five of my friends who are New Yorkers they happened to be in LA in pilot season that particular year, and they all got on the movie.
Traffic and oh yeah.
And then I asked my agents, how how did I not even get to read for this? This is right up my alley, you know, And my agent was like, oh, and they were Paradigm at the time, and they're like, oh, I'm sorry. A lot of these people were in LA, and they really casted in LA because it took place in La and San Diego.
Sister Et cetera, et cetera.
So I was like, oh, man, I guess I gotta be in LA.
Yeah. When you got when you got cast in Law and Order and then you got cast in SVU. I mean like we hear from a lot in New yorker, well, we hear from New York actors, but then especially if you're born and raised, was it like extra special to be like I'm in the Dick World universe now, like.
The universe absolutely, And I just recently got a chance to go again on.
I saw because I'm watching OC I saw you just in that Christmas episod so to o C Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, So that was really cool that I came back to play like a Jersey cup because it was yeah, you know, in those three row I think I was was I a lawyer the first time?
I don't remember what was the first think.
Regular americand Lord Yeah, but the second one, I was a I was a dad trying to.
Yeah, this is the one that we're covering today.
Yeah, Denny Correa, Yeah, yeah, that was an interesting episode, and uh, you know it was that it was basically one of the marks of my career where like I'm always that guy that you did you know, like what they call it the red herring, like that that you think that they're you know, that they're the guy, but they're not.
You know.
So it's like because you know, for whatever reason, when in my work, they can see my edge, so they're like, oh, he's edgy, so we could easily be a suspect, but then he's not.
And then yeah, yeah, you.
Know, not only just edge, but with heart. I mean, this character is not black and white like good or bad. You know, it's like a very layered performance.
Yeah, thank you for that, and that's that's my goal every time. It's like always showed that, you know, the diversity of the human being, you know, all the complexities of a person, you know. And yeah, so in that particular episode, I was very very honored to be in that because they gave me so much to do, and they allowed me to play and then allowed me to give them what I felt was appropriate for that character
and for their show. And I remember using that particular one or two of those scenes for many years after that in my reel until I guess probably even two thousand and five maybe I started changing up my reel and putting other things. But you know, to update, but that was that particular episode got me a lot of work.
Actually, oh, very good.
I don't know if you know this, but on Hulu you were the thumbnail of the episode.
Yes, you know, it's so funny, complete complete transparency. This morning I clicked on and I wanted to see the episode just to see if I could. I didn't get a chance because obviously I take care of my child and I'm not gonna let her watch, you know, as for you, So she was watching Pepa Pig by the way, Yeah, Teddy, why.
This than that?
You know, like Pap was brutal to her dad. Pap was brutal to her dad. We got to watch it with the kids watching Pepa.
Totally, totally totally. So when I clicked on, I saw the thumbnail was my face. I was like, oh, that's cool.
Yeah, you know, do you have any like specific memories. I mean, that show was like I know, it was like twenty years ago or more, but like that was, you know, just the beginning of the second season. I don't know if they had like fully hit their groove yet, but I think people knew that it was starting to become like popular, Like what was the vibe when you were on set, and any special memories of anybody that you can.
For that, for that, I mean, you know, being even then in the Law and Order franchise, you know, that was like for all of us New York actors was like the apex, you know what I mean, Like we're there, We're in it, We're in the city shooting. You know, we got cameras rolling, you know, in our territory, in our neighborhood.
You know that. That.
Yeah, that's huge for a lot of New York, especially young New York actors. You know, that was our goal, Like our goal was to be on Broadway. Our goal was to be on Law and Order, you know what I mean, Like that's you know, so having it at that point, having done it twice was just you know, icing on the cake and beauty. So and to no surprise, everyone was really cool. The vibe was awesome. You know, New York was shooting for New York, you know what
I mean. So people really knew what they were doing. And in terms of a well oiled machine, it was running the right way, the way it should be, especially under someone like Dick Wolf and but yeah, it was it was totally respectful and cool and and all the people were right on. And I remember Ice team was cool. He was just hanging out in his dressing dressing room as I passed by, and I was like, I was honored to meet him, as I listened to his music too, and I was just like yeah.
I walked right back.
And then when I after I did my thing, he was just like yeah, man, you know, like he was like, you know, giving me his state of approval by going yeah, man, you know.
You know.
So it was it was nice to to, you know, to get all those guys you know, behind you and whatnot.
And I'm very supportive, very supportive, and uh.
I have a technique that a lot of people use in my business where we use music to get us to certain places. So every character I play has a different kind of music that goes on, whether it be jazz or rock or rap or you know whatever, you know, Latin music, whatever music is specific to that character that they would have probably listened to in the kitchen when they were three years old to seven years old. That music is what I play for every character. So I
find that music for every character. So I use that to help me prep before five minutes before they say Okay, we're ready for your you know your shots. Let's go, and I'm there, I'm already, you know. So so music is a huge part of my life as well.
Do you remember what music this character listened to?
Danny at the time, I can't remember exactly.
Yeah, I was trying to think. I'm like, what's the vibe music for like a guy whose ex wife is crazy and he's trying to take away, yeah, but who also teaches dance, right, is trying to take away his daughter who's currently in a coma. What's the music? What's the well?
At that time?
Okay, so at that time, I was I was heavily into Mark Anthony. I love his music and I have a few times. I have mutual friends who are best friends with him. So that was the music that was playing, you know, for me. And there's a really great song about betrayal, and that was a song I was playing
and it always got that song always got me. It was just like it's just like just dig it in and just like you know, so as soon as I heard like even the first you know, first bars, it was like, all right, let's go, you know, so yeah, and then just play you know, play out the situation and take on take on the people that I had to take on and convince them of what's going on and what the truth is for this guy, you know.
So it was, it was, it was.
It was definitely exhilarating, and you know, being in New York and shooting in New York again, you know, with a great crew, New York crew. I mean that every time I do it is that alone gets just hits me with all the nostalgia and a pang in my chest of just overwhelming gratitude and just like, let's go, let's make this happen, like you know, and and let's
do the best that we can with it. And uh, that just happened to me back in November when I got to shoot and you know with the episode the Christmas episode of OC, you know, and order and having to work with those guys, and it was such a great comeback because it was like many years after I had left New York, living in New York and and I remember like my first day I'm coming on set and the night before I just managed because I only
had like five days to prefer this. This was an offer, and I was told in like three or four days I got a fly to New York and they said, oh shoot. So I get there the day before I have to film. So I'm researching online before I go on about what's the closest police precinct where the incident took place? And I called the precinct. I said, can I have an appointment with one of the captains or even the sergeant, just to like sit with him and just to feel them out? You know, I shoot this
day on Friday, I get in on Wednesday. Can I meet with you on Thursday? And they were like, sure it apartment. It turns out where I was staying was only fifteen minutes away from the precinct. So I got
a chance to sit down with those guys. They were so giving and so wonderful, and I was able to then just like drop in take all that information they gave me from New Jersey, understanding the logistics and the difference between both cities and their laws, because they literally I found out that there's a lot of laws that are different right over the GW between New York and and Fort Lee forty Thank you Fortley, the police Department
Fort Lee. These guys come in from New York, do their crime and hustle back into New York so that they don't get charged for the same crimes in the scene on the same level. So a lot of the craziness was going on even while we were shooting. So like coming on set having that information was like thrilling, and it was it was like a nice welcome back, you know, back to New York and you know, having that vibe on set on a Lauren Order set mind you you know.
Yeah, And did you reconnect with Maloney? Did you remember you? Because like you have a big scene with him in this in this episode from two thousand where he's like pressing you for a confession, and then now twenty years later, you're like reconnecting. And I was worried for your character because you're trying to arrest his son and we all know how Elliot Stabler feels about his children. Like I was like, he's going to get punched, Like I was worried about you.
Yeah, No, he was very focused and he did you know, there was probably one wink of a like blink up an eye where he looked at me and was like why do I know this guy?
But yeah, we didn't get into that.
We didn't get into that and that, you know, and it's been such a long time that you know, obviously with everybody they've worked with, there's no way that they're going to remember Denny Carrea.
Well, I know.
It's so funny because it's like, even if you gave the premise, even if you're like, remember my ex wife was Psycho and she was beating up our kid, and it's like, yeah, I don't remember that. That's happened a bunch of times on the show, of.
Course, of course, of course. And then you know, Marishka, she was so sweet. We had a scene they actually cut out such a cool scene. I wish they kept it. But we had this great connection. We had a great vibe that day, and I was internally geeking out because I love her work. I love her on the show, and you know, and I didn't, you know, I didn't want to impose that in any way, shape or form. I just wanted to do it through my work and
give her my best. And she felt that, and she was really nice and supportive, and you know, that was a great experience.
That's awesome. That's great to hear.
Well, so you've worked on so many TV shows. I've been on so many sets, what is the sign of like a great set? And then have you ever experienced when you arrive and you're like, oh, this is going to be a mess, or like uh ah, this like what are the differences between like a solid set or when you it might not be so solid?
Well, yeah, it's interesting because as a producer, and I've produced myself, one of the great things are the great caveats of producing, is that you understand the amount of pressure they're all going through to get a project done, whether it be fine tuned, well oiled running machine, or you know, some somewhat chaotic, So you understand what it takes, you know, for them to have finally the grace of
being able to put up their production. So I sympathize man, and I I've learned early on how to be flexible with everyone and appreciate. So for me, my only concern is I have to be ready, So I do my prep work.
On the day that I show up.
That's a celebration of my preparation, and no matter what happens, whatever delays, whatever this, whatever that, or everything's running great, We're going to have a good time that day because
it's a celebration that's my attitude about it. And that was taught to me early on through sports because I do martial arts and I do you know, I played baseball before and you know, and I don't remember where who told me that, but that was pivotal and key, you know, for my life moving forward to really just enjoy the process and to really just you know, appreciate and celebrate, especially after you know, doing all your research right, you know, because you know, because there are times early
on many young actors fall through this kind of a pitfall where they over focus on their research and they forget to live, They forget to breathe, simple things like that, just breathe, breathing through your nose and dropping in and you know, letting the the work do what it's going
to do. So when you show up with the right attitude to you know, to work, to just celebrate and you're dropped in and you're trusting all your your your you know, your your research and all your preparation, you're trusting that, then no matter what happens, it's a blessing and you're just doing your thing, you know, and you're doing your best.
Yeah, that's awesome, That is very beautiful.
I like your perspecting yea life in sports, and I agree. I played sports my whole life, and I feel like you learn a lot of lessons. Any final tidbits you'd love to share with our listeners from SVW or and then any upcoming projects that we should all watch out for you, or any tidbits from BOSH for me if you want.
Bosh was great. I mean, yeah, Titus Well of amazing.
Titus has been on SVU twice.
Oh that's right, Yeah, and so has Jamie Hector. He was on, but he was a very little part, probably at the beginning of his career. Like I clock all the Bashi people on the show.
Yeah, No, he's totally amazing and New Yorker as well. And yeah, Jamie, I ended up becoming great friends with him and we I put him in a movie called Canal Street that I produced and he did amazing in that. Here's a tidbit about any set, you know, especially if you're thinking about writing and producing and directing in any way as an actor. You never know where your next
job is coming from. So everyone's paying attention to just go in there and celebrate and have a great time, have a great attitude and rock and roll, and somehow, some way someone took note of that, and you know, years later you might need a job. You're in between jobs, Somedden,
you get a phone call. Because of who you are and what you know, the person you are and your great soul and how hard working you are, someone's going to call you up and be like, Yo, remember that day we worked on that set and I asked for your phone number.
I got this great part for you, your perfect foreman. You know what I mean.
It's important that you are nice to everyone on set and as far as s for you. Like I said before, I mean that is a complete honor. Uh, the Law and Order franchise, everything they involved. I have friends stealing it, rocking it, doing shows for them, and I'm always I'm always, you know, without imposing, I'm just like, yo, what's up?
You know? You know, don't forget me. You know what I'm saying, you know, because I you know, play on Chicago PD or something.
You know, like I could be a fireman, you know, so let's go. Wow, he is so cool. I mean, what a nice guy. He's been doing it for so long, like the Broadway to television to movies, trajectory has been Uh.
I love a coaching little league moment. Yeah, that always gets me like excited for life. Yeah, I had a good time and playing little league.
I guess, yeah, I played softball. I love that ship.
Yeah, except the coach's daughter was always the pitcher, and it's like, I'm sorry, she's not even that good. Like, so she was good, I'd be like, okay, yeah, for sure, but it's because I remember when I played basketball, Brittany was just better than us and her dad was the coach.
But it's like, of course she's not.
Yeah, but Christina, you weren't even that good. So I don't know why were you pitching the whole time? All right? Post mortem, post mortem on legacy? What did we learn that fucking inherited drama is real?
And you can't judge a book by its cover. Just because someone's wearing a little suit and has a soccer mom haircut, they could be raping their daughter with a hair brush.
Oh I don't know.
I think she was spanking her.
But yeah, uh yeah, yeah, that's so true. I didn't really think about how this episode was a lot about like, you know, classism and stuff and how you think this fry Cook, who's an immigrant from another country.
Is everyone looks at him as the bad guy. Also he's the man, but really it's the Yeah, it's the buttoned up mom with the two thousands eyebrows and the you know three wealth. Yeah, so just don't don't judge a book. But also, I mean, it's like I want to be like, see, if you see something, say something. Let's keep an eye on all of our children and not be afraid to say stuff. But it's like people said things a million times with Alisa, and unfortunately, you know,
it wasn't enough. And it just feels like the system is so fucked. But you know what else, I guess try not to hook up with your zoom but instructor and rehab it's probably gonna go down a road. It's not great.
But yeah, but it's like you're sober, Yeah, you need something. I guess you're gonna fuck the zoom bag. I guess sure, you're like not doing pills.
Yeah, And people meet in rehab and stuff too, even though it's against the rules. I know people meet there and end up together. I know people who have But yeah, this is like this is a classic episode. I'm glad we did it, but really tough. The crime was Oh my god, I just can't believe every ten years there's like a Landmark horror showcase in New York and like nothing changes. And I'm sure there are in many other states the same situation.
But yeah, stop having kids, Stop forcing people having kids, like unless you really want.
To, Yeah, unless you have the emotional ability to take care of them, I suppose.
Yeah.
And yeah, if you're gonna think your daughter is filled with a demon, don't have a child.
Or like, why didn't you just let all the other people that wanted or take her, like if call up that cousin and go, hey, I think this one has demons? Can you take her? Like it's like I don't understand,
like it's it's an illness. I mean, but that does actually lead us right into this week's what would Sister peg Do, which is our weekly segment where we give you guys an article, an organization, a book, some kind of resource to help you learn a little bit more about the topics that we touched on in today's episode, or possibly donate and help you know these organizations. So today we wanted to highlight prevent Ydaus America their website
is Prevent Child Abuse dot org. They are the US's oldest and largest organization committed to preventing child abuse and neglect before it happens. They rely on a nationwide network of state chapters and nearly six hundred Healthy Families America home visiting sites, which provides parents and caregivers a wide variety of services and resources all around the country. So they cover a lot of things child, physical and sexual abuse, neglect, even peer abuse and bullying. So their work runs the
whole gamut. And if you'd like to get more involved or learn about them or donate, you can check out their work like I said, at Prevent child Abuse dot org. And if you're ever interested in finding our you're driving. You can't write this down right now. All of our what would sister pegs are in a story highlight on our Instagram called WWSPD and you can check out today's as well as all of our past ones.
Also, speaking of Instagram, I loved what you posted with iced tea as like the iced tea cardboard at Cane's Chicken.
Yes, I don't like that.
I want to see it.
A couple listeners have sent it to us. I don't know what part of the country that is. But like and he's wearing the T shirt. It's not like some people will send us like you know, at a at like a place, the iced tea like tin that that serves ic tya will have a picture of icy on it. Okay, cute, this is like a full spawn. This is iced tea is doing the spawn for like can and people say that chicken is good too.
Yeah, if we're ever on the road in the South, yeah, we will hopefully get an iced tea cardboard cutout chicken.
All right.
Next week, back to business, we'll be doing episodes Starved that season seven, episode eight, h Hulu peacock. I say Hulu every week and I was just about to mispronounce it, Hulu peacock VPNs the internet libraries get to it.
And guys, you can keep emailing us and sending us dms. We love to hear from you, and we are so thankful that you listen. We'll see you next week.
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Dun dun,