Justice w/ Daniel Sunjata

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done.

Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up and Us for You podcast. As always, I'm Kara Klank.

Oh hey, Kara, it's me Lisa, your co host. Oh hi Lisa. We talk U S for You, crimes interviews. It's a jam packed podcast episode. And I know we have a great podcast because the listeners keep telling us, so we got to believe them.

At some point. We can't just be like, oh are we cool.

We are our audience, they're educated, they're rich, they're amazing.

Tip well at live shows. Yeah, we love it.

We love to see it.

Well, yesterday I did a podcast called Whed and Grub with a girl named Mary Jane, perfect name, listens to the pod, loves SVU, and you know, she brought great snacks.

We're talking to our lawyers. She's like, I have a lot of friends that listen. I think she listens well.

So they made me gluten free brownies because she listens to the pod for this like weed and Snacks podcast. Then I went to visit our friend Sam, who is fully gluten free, like seven months pregnant, if not more, did not bring her a brownie.

You should have just told her there was weed in them. Noah.

It hit me a midway and I was like, oh my god, and she's like, I don't know if I'll.

Ever forgive you.

She's like herself, she was like fuck you because she was like because her husband bought Girl Scout cookies, but she can't have gluten for real. So I was just poisoning my body and she was just pregnant. Knowing I had gluten free brownie is just hours earlier.

Bad friend.

I sent her these gluten free cookies one time that she was obsessed with, and her husband texted me being like, what the fuck did you send us? These are so good? So like, if people are looking for a Los Angeles option of gluten free brownies or cookies, this place is called Deluscious.

That's a bad na.

People are obsessed. It's a bad name. But till somebody tell me about it, and I get their emails all the time, and like it has been only a hit with people I've sent it to.

Yeah, but these these brownies were made of beans. The bass is black bears.

Right right.

I've had black bean chocolate cake. I've had like a black bean like a chocolate cake vegan time.

And I'm glad they didn't they told me after I took bites, because if they told me before, I wouldn't have had even a bite. I don't quote unquote like black beans, but I surely do for all of you listening today. I did lock myself out of the door or my home and Kara had to bring the key,

Did you did? I got the notification you were emailing about a meeting. I was looking at my phone.

I was on another podcast, and I responded to like a quick email.

Yeah.

But to me, I was like, how is she I've called? I'm like, you're responding to scheduling emails. I'm like in a sweatshirt, floppy titting outside. All of these elderly men are looking at me, and I know what they're saying, My tits are huge. If it's not a tight tank top, they are flopping. And I just didn't anticipate so much action on the outside world.

Yeah.

Oh, speaking of big tits, I did just buy the sportspraw that Hannah recommended the email one that fucking that's a nonsurgical boob job. Like I am like flat when I wear this thing, Like yeah, not flat, but like I can run, I can do anything. Like your boobs are in there been running?

Have you been running? I don't run.

I did.

This segues perfectly into how I and our friend Lauren last night.

Took a tap class.

I took our tad Okay, yeah, it was so funny. Like first of all, I get there and I'm waiting outside because there's still like a ballet class.

Going on inside for like adult women.

And I'm like. This woman comes up and she goes, oh, are you here for the tap class? And I go, yeah, are you?

And she goes yeah. I go have you been before?

And she goes, see, I've been a few times, and I go I have no tap experience and she goes really and I go no, and she goes none, and I go you're making I was like, you're making me feel really self goteous, Like I go, yeah. I emailed and they said that it's like beginner like thinking I'm going to get into this class and it's going to be fucking Gregory Hines and Savion Glover or something, and I'm like, I get it. And my friend Lauren shows up and I go. This woman made me feel really

Oh you are so jealous, weren't you when she got that compliment?

Oh no, I loved it. I was like because she was like, she's like, I'm good at the shuffle, but I don't move my arms. That's the thing that's different about tap versus Irish dances that her arms are.

Pasted to her side.

But it was really fun. We got in there. It was us that woman and a teenage girl whose mom was watching her the whole time. It was so fun and I we.

Could both keep up.

It was like, even though we don't have experience. The woman went slow, like it was you know, it was really fun.

But was that woman talking shit even that good? No, that's what I mean. I forgot who said this to me, but it's something that's lived with me for I think just a few years. But if you're wearing the best soccer cleats on the on the field, you better be the best player. Yeah, Ashley Dalton said this to me.

That's what it is.

If you have the best fucking most expensive cleats, you better be amazing at soccer. Yeah, this bitch talking shit. I doubt she was even good.

It was just weird because she just said it like two or three times, like wait, none, And I was like, yeah, I mean I have other dance experience, but I don't have tap experience.

Yeah. Have you been to a wedding with Kara Klank? She knows how to dance.

Thank you?

Wait? Should should I come with that other mom and watch you guys?

That would be so funny.

I would love to come watch it's funny. The problem is is that, well, first of all, you can just watch. It's literally on a busy street in our neighborhood and there's a window to the street, so like anyone can go by and just see what we're doing, which is embarrassing, but I kind of forgot about.

I want to go a day when it's raining and then I'll just stand out there with an umbrella watching you guys.

In my raincoat.

How cinematic. But the only problem is, like the floor is obviously used for other dance classes like ballet and other kinds, so it's not as tippity tappity as I want it to be.

I want it to be like a wood floor, you know what I mean. It's not wood. No, And you can't hear your ticky you know what? What is it? Because I thought ballet was wood. I'm confused.

Yeah, It's like it just has like a protective like some kind of plasticy thick I can't describe bit.

But you can kind of hear your tap.

It's just not the same as like on wood, you know. And you could tell the teacher was disappointed about that too.

Have you been practicing at the house.

Well, it was only last night, so I haven't been practicing my combo.

Sorry. Maybe if we all get.

Together, Lauren, get some wine in me and Lauren, and then we'll do our little combination for you that we learned.

My mom's text it's Elan's birthday. Yeah, I fucking know, bitch. No, that was nice of her. Happy birthday to my brother in law, the only good man I know. And it's Sydney Washington's birthday. Okay, I mean, now you know when we taped it, you don't even know it.

I don't think I know anyone who loves their brother in law like you like your love your brother in law.

You really love your brother in law. I do.

But I also met him when he was fifteen and I was five.

Yeah, you were like, yeah, you've known him your whole life.

So he's forty five now, so I've known him since he was a teenager.

So it's a little bit.

You know, I'm not twenty five and meeting some man that she met, right, you know, a bar and.

Regally I've imagined little Lisa a five and you've seen the pure being, like, I need to ask you some questions before you date my sister. And you give him like the run around. You're like, what time you can have a home.

Well, I don't know if you if I've already said this on the pod. No, he would come over. He would give me donuts and then put on the quote unquote Snowy channel, which was just static on the TV. But I was like, oh my god, the Snowy Channel. And I would sit eating donuts while god knows what was happening in our bedroom slash dining room watching.

This watching static. I cannot. I don't think you've mentioned that, because that is not something I remember. Oh my god. No, he was good. But he was a good guy. He he he had a red jeep.

He took me to see Andre at the movie theater with just me and him and his brother, like he would legit, like hang out with me.

Yeah, he's like your like your brother Like, yeah, he.

Would like he he takes my dad to doctor's appointments.

He just kind of is like this. He's always been kind of a good guy.

I mean, maybe there's someone trapped in the basement, but I've spent a lot of time in there.

I don't think so.

And I love my brother in law too. It's just you speak so highly of Elan.

It's very nice. It's very nice.

Well, because I also know how annoying my parents are, and none of us are as nice to my parents as him. He really goes above and beyond for these annoying, annoying immigrants. But oh, I just thought of something I have to tell you after this.

You gotta FaceTime me. Sorry, guys, you can't. You can't know all the shit.

Yeah, I have something I want to ask you about too.

Oh perfect, So wait, I do have some notes. I do have some things that I wanted to talk about.

Analisa has already told us to wrap it up, and Lisa's like, okay, let me get into our agenda quick.

It's honestly quick. First, I've been watching Girl in the Window alone on the.

I want to watch it. It's funny. I like it. I do like it.

I think I realized that genre now because sometimes I get auditions for things that are like funny, but everything is serious and I don't understand it. Yeah, and watching this like I finally understand the tone of acting fully in a thing that's like not.

I don't know. I thought it was great.

Is it kind of the tone of that like Kristin Wig Will Ferrell Lifetime movie that was like a parody of a Lifetime movie, but it was.

On I think it was on Lifetime. No, are you thinking about the Amy Polar Romantic One or no?

No, no, no, No, this was like a christ was like a parody, wasn't it Will Ferrell and Kristin Wig.

Yeah, I don't know, but I enjoyed it.

So if you guys are into like a crime moment, that's silly but serious.

And Kristen Bell is just an incredible actress. Oh and I just a deadly adoption. I've never even heard of that.

Oh, it was like a funny thing. And it's Will Ferrell, right, am I crazy? Okay? Yeah, it's Will Fail Kristen Wig and like so the vibe of it was very serious, over serious, like a lifetime movie. But then it was supposed to be comedy. So I'm looking forward to that. I really want to see this. I didn't know it was a show. I thought it was a movie. So I went with Jared to watch it the other day and we didn't realize it was a movie a show. And he needed to watch a movie because he gives

It didn't do well, and that's what's tough about award show season, where it's like I get that, like the normal public might not get like great performances or details of movie making, but for something that no one watched or cared about to then be winning awards, and it's that's why we're not interested. Yeah, that's the disconnect, Like how is this winning anything?

Yeah, it's just like I love West Side Story, I love the music, I love like the story. I love it, but I liked the old movie and this doesn't really add anything to it. I think that main actor is like a snooze angel el Gort, And I just was like, whatever I did, it was beautiful. If people are gonna come for me, I will admit it's like gorgeous Spielberg

Was not holding my attention anyway.

What else did you have?

Anything else? Oh?

Tricksy and Katia did queens who liked to watch with squid games? Because I didn't want to watch squid games. I don't love dystopia, but watching them talk about squid games.

I loved it.

And then I read everything about it and all the plot points and it seems really good. Oh I watched all the squid game It's awesome. Yeah, with the what I read.

Okay, so watching it through the eyes of these two drag queens, it was amazing.

Yeah.

So you know, we h there was a news story about nurses selling fake vaccine cards and they made over one point five million dollars.

Yeah.

So the thing that I want to focus on, just really quickly is that one of the people, she was a nurse practitioner. It's not like some poor nurse like this woman is a rich person. She is also married to an NYPD officer. So one of the criminals is married to an officer and he is getting in trouble because he was part of it. So he's being investigated

Okay, are we like, is this a Banana's podcast crossover? Like we need to send a story to Bananas? Like this is that is quite literally Banana Like that is crazy?

Yeah?

And then there was a post secret this week of one of the secrets was along the lines of my husband is in jail for murder and I will never leave him. Oh wow, So that obviously made me think of all of you. Also, I knew some of you would not like the Scott Peterson take, and then some of you just innocuously commented your points of view, and I attacked you viciously.

And I apologize now, I was just responding.

I just don't like being condescended at or that I didn't know that it was biased, or that I didn't use other sources, or that I'm not open to be proven wrong or.

So like like to just to clarify, I mean, we're a comedy podcast, like we want to give you the information about the crimes. But if you're expecting the same, you know, like thorough journalism of a twenty twenty, there's twenty twenty you know, like that's not what you're hopefully, that's not what you're here for, you know, like we are. We really try to be thorough and do the best we can, but we're also putting it into a what we attempt to be a thirty minute slot.

And it's like, you know, most people were into it and they get us and they like us. But the people that were disappointed it was this thing of like I did do over twenty hours of research actually, and if you have information on Lacy, please send it my way, like I would love it. I could not find it, you know, I didn't go to the line, so like I would love this information. We always are trying our best. There's no reason to be condescending of like did you

I think that's wild to.

Ignore every news, every newspaper, and every magazine at the store. Like it's kind of like Jared Letto being at a silent retreat and then coming out and be like, wait, what's COVID? You know, it's like, Okay, this is a little silly, but yeah, no, you guys are allowed to say whatever you want. And I try not to get involved, but you know, sometimes.

It actually just texts me her opinions. Okay, let's get started. We have a hot episode for you today, a very hot interview, and I'm excited to get hi.

To everyone I met in Kansas.

Thank you for all your presence, your weed, your nice compliments, and you're being such great audience members, sweet sweet angels.

Okay, let's get started. Okay, we are doing Justice season three, episode nineteen. An early Guy, one.

Of my favorites, and I feel like I didn't know the name of it. I couldn't find it for forever, and then it came to me on a binge and I was like, oh, thank goodness, oh my god, I want to do this episode.

It's another one of those ones where like it doesn't stick out for me, but I know I've seen it and you love it, so I'm just happy to do it. And it's such a good one, so I'm happy we chose it. We open on a scene honestly tailor made for me. Two movers moving a couch and talking about MLMs and Ponzi schemes. I love this so much. One guy is clearly like telling the other guy like, yeah,

Did you look it up or did you know this Enron guy? I was like, who's Kenneth Lay?

And they it sounded familiar and I looked it up and it was I looked it up. Obviously I'm not familiar with ins and OU's of Enron, but I did. I did track down the contact.

Well, Henron is very Connecticut, so maybe you knew in deep.

And deep in my mind, in my soul, it was there. So like this reference goes over the other mover's head. Of course he's like, no, my cousin's name is Johnny or whatever, like it's very funny. And then as they're taking the couch down the stairs, they noticed the body of like a teen girl in a Catholic school like plaid skirt outfit, just fully bleeding out at the bottom of the stairs.

So not a great fight. Now we're at the hospital.

Live storms in with her super short pixie cut, I think the one that she almost got fired or she thought she was gonna get fired for. And all they know is that this girl is like a teen there's no info on who she is. She like has no idea on her and apparently all she said at the

Like, bitch, we've done given you enough. Get away from me.

And then like back at the nurse's desk, Live is scrambling to get all the clothes and swab sent to the lab with a uniform cop and Stabler shows up and is like, sorry, babe, she didn't make it. She died on the table. And Olivia immediately is like, oh no, like I got in the way, I made her die, and Stabler's like, Nana, she had like a clot, massive internal bleeding. There was nothing you could do. You're not

When they tell the wrong person? I love? They Oh my god, she's a lot.

I just yeah, I love. Just go back to missing your grandma. You can just go back to the Shiva or whatever.

No, no, because this bitch is obviously doing something. Yeah, the teen is up to no good? How did ever get these pills?

The teen is up to no good.

So basically wrapping up this little storyline with the Porter family, the daughter who answered the door stole her mom's pills and sold them to some dude in the skateboard park who she said, will buy anything from anyone's like medicine cabinet. So nobody in the house like actually knows who this dead girl is. But that's how we get to the pills.

Well, and he's probably so young in this was that wild for you that you were like, hey, I know you because this was way before Bosh.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. He looks really young, and I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm glad you were like working it for so long and then Bosh worked out for you, you know, like you've been at this since two thousand and two.

He doesn't know who the girl is.

He just said she came by at ten am to buy happy pills, and ice starts going. Finn starts going through his pockets and he's like a full Dwayne read like he just has all these like pills and poppers and all things in his in his pockets. And he says he doesn't really remember much about her. She was cute, and he remembers her going to the motel across the street, like this seedy place, and that she was wearing a black, shiny floppy hat. Love this detail now.

This show, it's not shocking that I like it. It's a bingo of all of my favorite things. Yeah, look up, who bought this?

You know?

I love that that's not my pills. I don't know, I just like I love every moment in this.

This episode is so like it takes them. It takes them ten minutes just to get to the identity of the victim.

This episode and another great scene. I mean just filled with great scenes. Yeah, it's just a lot of a lot of detective works. And I love when the detectives like think it's their fault, when they're like, oh, it's my fault, and then they have to be like, it's not your fault, and it's like it could have been your fault.

Like I love that.

Yeah, live, you were really in the way, I guess also like it's not about you, Like, yeah, this says a definite drinking bingo episode if I've ever seen one, Yes, indeed, well yes for you specifically, there's a hot line in this episode.

Oh I don't even know what you're you're talking about that you'll know when we get to it.

The motel is.

Like super disgusting. The guy at the front desk is like, yeah, maybe I saw this girl with some dude he signed the book, and like they look it up and he signed the book as Bend Dover, which is like Simpson's level funny, and then paid cash. So stay. They head upstairs and stablers like please tell me the room hasn't been cleaned and he's like, no, since nineteen seventy two, which is so disgusting. And in the room they find the sparkly hat and it says in the hat made

It's really funny. If you missed it, check it out.

She does a little wink to the salesgirl like sorry for my dumb ass boy, like guy friend here and so yeah, I just like when liv gets to be sophisticated and stunt on Stabler because he only knows about like Catholic schools and the Rockaways. So she looks up the hat and she the sales girl and she's like, actually, we haven't sold any.

Of these yet.

So they're like, okay, maybe this is a shoplifting situation. In the back room, there's like a sassy mail manager who thanks them for catching a shoplifter and they have like a full polaroid book of shoplifters, which I was like, that must be humiliating, like you get caught, and then they're like, we're taking your picture so we can recognize you next time you come in.

Well, it's very Empire Records.

Yeaesh is an important movie to me, but very important.

Every day should be Rex Manning day. I used to shoplift a lot, how about you.

I would say I definitely shoplifted, but it wasn't my number one hobby.

Well I'm not saying it wasn't for me.

I wasn't varsity shoplifted.

Well no, I had some friends in high school that like they would go to Nordstrom and the BP section try on tons of stuff, layer it on and walk out like.

They were really yeah.

And then one time I was with them and she took underwear from limited to and the sales girl like ran out and was like give it back, which is against all rules. You're not supposed to, Like, I think stores aren't allowed to tell you that you're shoplifting, because if you're wrong, it's fucked up. Like most stores are not allowed to approach someone even if you see someone's shoplifting. So I can't believe she ran out, but she must have been having a bad day. But you know, I

I used to steal clothes from the gap, but like stuff that wasn't clicked on with the clicker, but it was. I would only steal from large corporations where I would never steal from like a small shop where someone was like it was their livelihood, you know, And I would just bring in a shopping bag.

And I worked in retails.

I would like fold clothes and stuff and then I would just like fold it and like drop it into my shopping bag and no one like noticed. I was, wow, I was pretty slick at it. But I never knock on wood. I never got caught, and I don't recommend it. It's bad. I just was like I work all the time. I worked, and was like, I still can't afford new clothes, like I'm I'm taking zone.

So yeah, there must be some sort of something science psychology of why teen girls love to see I'm sure boys do it too, but it's not just necessity. We both grew up in like well off suburbs or whatever. So yeah, I am curious.

What is it? Just the thrill?

You just want the lipsmack like I wonder what it is, because it is, you know.

It was like I wanted the clothes, and like my mom my parents like wouldn't I mean, I was like I did grow up in like an affluent town, but I was one of six kids. My mom wasn't like, let's go on a shopping spree every day, you know, and like all the girls in my town were so rich and had cool clothes. And I was like, I want a new sweater from the gap, and my mom won't buy it for me. So I got to figure

I was like pretty much Gap.

But they find a picture of this girl, but she has no name on her picture.

Huge jad for Gap, Gap should actually throw out some coins.

Yeah, we said it like ten times.

Yeah. And I'm also like, Gap, easy to steal from, Okay, So he's like, of course, very SVU style. This guy goes mm hm, I remember this, like like I remember exactly what happened. I've got a book of shoplifters, but this one I remember specifically. He's like, I would have pressed charges, but like in his file there's nothing, Like they never sent the form that the cops are supposed to send when they take in a shoplifter. So like they're like, officer Slater picked her up and we never

I mean and it's supposed to show like, oh, look at this guy sleeping on the job, but it's like, I'd rather police be sleeping than shoe, you know what I mean, you take a nap.

They are like giving people tickets.

Yeah, so he shows him the polaroid and he goes, this girl pulled a Winona a Destination two weeks ago, and it's like lol, but also like, will Winona writer ever live that down? I mean, people still like think of her just as a shoplifter and it's really not that huge of a crime.

You know, no, didn't.

She just kind of like she has had an off day or two.

I don't know, but it happens. It happens.

But yeah, it is also two thousand and two, so it's probably more fresh. I forget what year she got busted, but it is more fresh. So but I like that he fin's pulling out the pop culture refs and he said he said she wouldn't give up her name, and so they gave her a desk appearance ticket. I don't really know what this the desk appearance thing means, but I think you kind of get the idea from context.

You know, do you see Working.

Girl curls, redhair curls. No, it's actually fucked up. I haven't seen Working Girl or nine to five, and I think I should do, like, yeah, like a Lil Moating movie. Yeah, I want to, but you know, when there's pressure, like you haven't seen something in a while and you want to see nine to five, but it has to be the right moment because it's on Delta flights right now. Yeah, it would be easy to watch it, but that's not

Pressure on it for me. Okay, well I'll watch it eventually.

Happy to watch Working Girl with you too, because that's actually closer to my heart than nine to five. But

And the woman is.

Like, Patricia's dead, Okay, suddenly you know her? Like who is she in?

Well?

And I love the Benson response.

She's just like that's what we spent this whole miserable day trying to find out.

And I just like love the line reading yeah, because the lady goes, you don't know who she is, do you? And Benson's like, please do anything, just tell me. And it turns out that she is the daughter of a judge named Judge Thornberg Judge Walter Thornburg. So back at the precinct, Stabler goes, why does it have to be

And she's like, so it's true.

And then she's like this is huge. The DA is gonna want to know where we are on this every step of the way. And then Craigan's like, I'm gonna go tell the family. So now we're at this super nice apartment brownstone situation, and Craigan shows up and sees Judge Thornberg's wife Brooke with her two little boys and she looks so happy to see Captain Craigan.

She's like, done, how are you? What's going on?

And this is actress Valerie Mahefi. I think is how you say her name. And she has been in a ton of shit. I don't know if you've seen her and stuff, Lisa, if you recognize her from anything, but she does have eighty seven credits on her shoe. Yeah, and she's just in a show I watch called Big Sky. If you watch Dead to Me, she plays Christina Applegate's mother in law who like harasses her all the time.

And she was in a Seinfeld No. I think she's the pretentious date of George.

Oh yeah, Patrece Patrice.

Yeah, and she's the pretentious one and she has like chopsticks in her hair, and she was supposed to help like Jerry with taxes, but then George is like you fucking suck and then yeah, whatever.

She's great.

She's like I mean, she's a redhead, so she kind of sticks out to you and like she was in Desperate Housewives, Like I think she plays Kyle McLaughlin's first wife or something.

What's amazing is she looks equal parts good and bad, like she could be a dark, twisted bitch and not likable, but she also just looks like a likable.

A sweet suburb woman. Yes, so completely cool. Yes, that's very cool that she's very versatile like that, and in fact, she plays a very fucked up character in Big Sky so h a show that I randomly watch and for me, just Seinfelt.

We talk about so much of the New York Show.

But Seinfeld is like, everyone got their start, I mean everyone incredible, Like you have to be Marish the best. Yeah.

Yeah, So she's kind of like, what's going on? Don to Captain Craigan and then we cut to the next scene. She's crying, so like, the judge is there and he's like, why don't you go lay down? But then he starts to give them some info and the wife is like, Craigan starts to give them more info, and the wife is just getting more and more upset, so she she leaves. They're like, does Brook have to be there here for this?

Is such a modern day that's a Saint there's a Saint Monica, Like this seems like such an eighties name.

I don't know. Brooketts had gotten a phone call that morning that Patricia had ditched school right after roll call, and they're like, Truan sees how she's been torturing us for years before that, it was a piercing before that, it was a tattoo, okay whatever. Like these people seem a little bit square and like they can't handle like a regular teenager.

It doesn't really sound like she's doing anything that crazy yet.

So now we're at the lab with the very hot hot CSU tech Bert Trevor played by Daniel Sunjada who is explaining that her tattoos aren't gang related and that they found glass in her scalp that matched the broken beer bottle, and then he explains what happened like he's always very like, Okay, here's how it went down, Like he's very kind of like passionate about how he talks about the.

Friend the other csu Tex should actually be quite jealous because he has the most.

Stand out evidence for some reason.

Maybe it's because of his sexy eyes, but I'm just paying attention more. But he's usually like putting a dead person's finger on a thumb, like he's always got the wild twist of how to get the.

Evidence, and he seems like he might be somebody who uses more innovative tactics, like, for example, what happens next. First he explains that like through blood splatter, it looks like what happened when she was hit on the head with the beer bottle at the top of the stairs, then staggered backwards cartwheeled down the steps, like hitting her head at the bottom where she was unconscious for fifteen minutes, because you can tell there's like a pool of blood.

But I don't get why you can't just dust all the loose pieces, like you know what I mean to get a print. It's quicker to rebuild a bottle and dust for prints like it is.

I don't trust it. It's wild.

But maybe because like you need a full print like a partial, maybe won't couldn't be the perfect like the right idea. I don't know, I have no idea. But now they're at the Catholic School Saint Monica's.

Skylar, Like I just was like, what, I didn't know there were Monicas in BC, But I guess his mother Teresa saint. I guess, ever, are saints just being born all the time? I guess school.

You know, I don't know about saints. I mean, I went to Hebrew school.

I have no idea. But at the Catholic school, they are on a walk and talk with a nun who's like, Patricia was really, really smart, but she was hostile towards authority figures, not necessarily other kids, but authority figures. She would talk back, arrive late. And then we also noticed she was cutting and lives like, Hi, that's a cry for help. It's not like an annoying thing she's doing. So she kind of gives the nun a little bit of a what's up, bitch, keep your eyes open? And

And I'm like keeping her that's a fun the middle name they just added in there.

It feels like a nickname or yeah, I don't know, because like later people are calling him bird and Birdie and shit. And then when Cabot's going through her very very old looking computer, she's like, look at this and shows Kragan Thornberg is the judge on all five of these cases, like why is this girl seeking out men that have her father?

Her stepfather has convicted.

So then they go.

To talk to the Thornburghs again.

They show up at their brownstone and he's been taken to the hospital because someone took a shot at him. So he's been shot, but he's alive and he's at the hospital. So now Live is at the hospital talking to Brook, the wife, and she explains like it's like she's doing a lot of talking and it's not really any information. She's basically like, I heard him get shot outside. I went outside and there he was shot. And he had been in court to clear his calendar so they

So I'm sure he's pissed that he has to like live with his brother in law.

Now yeah, yeah, he's like, now I have this dirt bag around my house and like wasting time at my autobody place. And he's like, not only did he never come back to work, but he has my van. So now everybody's looking for a nineteen ninety seven forty one point fifty that this guy's very proud of himself because he.

Like put flames on it and like men are so funny.

So at the precinct they're all trying to figure out, like where this guy could be they check all his old They're like, go check out all of his old haunts or whatever. And the first place they go to is called Eager Beavers and it's a strip club, and I just think the name is kind of funny. So it's like a strip club on the Bowery or something, which I don't I don't know about two thousand and two, but there are no strip clubs on the Bowery right now.

Fourteen, which I believe he.

Played an Atlanta cop that was like trying to hook up with Rollins.

Yeah, that's how we keep seeing him.

So he's literally been on like seven or eight episodes of SVU, maybe nine.

Legend.

Yeah, the actor's name is Mike Watford. Myk, very creative spelling, missus.

I see your notes. I'm smiling. I see what's next.

So uh yeah, So they find this guy wasted, and as they're arresting him, we get a classic line that Liza literally has on a sweatshirt where Ice Tea says you have the right to remain silent and if you puke in my car, I'm gonna kill your ass.

It's kind of iconic.

So it is from this episode, and many of you have seen Liza on Instagram stories wearing truly a piece of art. So in interrogation with the Bird, they tell him like, we found your DNA, and Patricia like, you're like, you're going away for this. This is kind of open and shut, and he looks shocked when they tell him that she's dead. He's like no, no, no, He's like, look, he admits, I took a shot at the old man, but I didn't hurt the girl. I didn't even know

He's like too closely to the case. He's too close to the case. He's way too close.

And he's like, uh, we're listening to this drunk drunk ex con Why And it's like, well, the letters like don't specify anything about the judge or murder, but they do mention a favor over and over. But she says she has to tell him in person about the favor, and yeah, daddy's cramar really paper evidence. Yeah, and she told him. She actually also told him to destroy every letter, which he never did because I mean, he's a dirt bag, but at least she thought of it to say, please

She wasn't gonna let Trish fuck it up.

And as soon as they shipped Tricia away, they got married, they adopted Brian, and they had Josh immediately after that instant new family and lives like well with Tricia tucked away at boarding school, and the sister's like, well, whoa, whoa Tricia never went to boarding school and she's like,

Yeah, because usually if you have family in the courts or connection to help get you out of stuff, yeah, they don't send you to kitty prison.

So definitely like what the fuck?

Yeah, And they go to they show you this place. You go there and it's like the farthest thing from a boarding school you could get. It's like looks very you know, sparse and like, and Finn is like, what's up, Like why would a rich girl be here?

This is for inner city throwaways.

And it's like, okay, that's a little harsh ie.

I think they can hear you.

And then the lady who's walking around with is like it is a little unusual. And he's like, okay, well, what was Trisha like? And she's like, in three years, she never once opened up in therapy, but we suspected sexual abuse. And he's like why, and she starts listing this whole long list of symptoms like hypervigilance, exaggerated startle, response insomnia, never talking about the baby, nausea, poor appetsite, and Ice is like, hold up, hold up, hold up, baby,

Yeah, I just rape my stepdaughter. I'm not a murderer. Yeah, dah crazy, I'm dying and relax.

And it's like this is this brings up a little bit of like the Woody Allen of it all, But like I kind of there's is there any possibility that this guy only molested his stepdaughter one time, like a couple times or whatever, Like he's got to have other victims, Like if this is what you're into, this is what you're into, like this judge obviously, I don't know. I just feel like, if you looked into it, she's not the only victim.

And it just.

Seems really hard to date when you're a woman with children, because anyone could just be using you to.

Molest your kids. Oh yeah, I just listened to it.

This is actually happening about that where this woman thought her new husband was like cheating on her and she kept trying to figure stuff out and she couldn't find anything, and she like she was like, I know there's something there, and then found videos that he set up a hidden camera to tape her daughter showering, like he actually ended up going to jail.

But it is this thing of like it's already hard enough and now yeah it's weird.

Obviously there's good stepdads, but I right now I'm not trusting any of them, right right, Ugh, So so the Rosie Perez episode, you know, it's just like these stepdads are predators. Totally don't come for me. I hope you have great stepdads. I'm just saying yes, of course. It's like I never really thought about that as like a constant opt like thing that could happen until this podcast.

I mean, it is kind of like a TV trope.

The sketchy step dad is kind of like yeah, very n SVU but also other places.

But and it's just sad when these people pick a strange, loose man they've known for a few years over their children, Like that is about right, right.

I mean, like an episode we did in when we did name.

A couple episodes back, like that woman was molested by her dad's boyfriend and then he would turned out to be a killer. So anyway, now we're at the lab with Bert Trevor and the bottle puzzle, and he has finished it and he's it's like kind of a comedic moment because he's like and just the last piece and they're like, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. And he's like, now I just have to wait for it to completely dry, and they're like, dust

It's like a four has lived in my memories for decades now, like this is this has been one of the pivotal moments of this show for me.

Is this bottle? Yeah?

And so now the going from one on scene to another, I really this last scene is great. Like it's like one of the reasons I love SVU. This is just such a good final scene. So like at the Judge's house, they confront Brooke and they're like, so you know what your husband did and immediately she's like, Tricia seduced him.

Well because then I guess what happens to the kids now? Or is it just baby Brian or was there another one, because.

Well the other one is their biological baby.

But like daddy's going to jail for being a molester and mom's going to jail for murderer.

So I guess maybe they go to Aaron. Maybe they'll go to Aunt Aaron. She seemed nice.

Yeah, hopefully, Well, thank you so much.

Yeah, I'm very interested and intrigued. Knowing nothing of the crime this is derived from, so great, take me on a ride, Lisa.

So this crime was really excited, you know, I really wanted to do this episode so badly, and we like didn't know if it was based on something, and then we found that it is based on something, and wildly. I was just on my friend Steve Fury's podcast called World on Drugs, and I was a guest on his podcast when we.

Talked about this crime.

So if you want to check out more of the conspiracy theories and like the background of all of this, you can check out World on Drugs.

It was a three part episode he had.

We think we have long ones, but he had to kind of into three episodes and whatever. So it would be weird if I didn't give a shout out that I just kind of learned a lot about this case from Stephen.

Now, I don't know.

If he has to do credible sources, but we do so a lot of a lot of the like wild conspiracy of it all is The New York Times is not writing about that, so I'll touch on it, but we're going to stick to the case. So about this case, the Assistant United States like district attorney or whatever at the time, he was the chief prosecutor in this case, and his closing arguments, Ray John said, this is a story of fear, a story of greed, and a story of murder.

So that's exciting. And a lot of people who were involved.

With this they kept saying like, this is a giant attack on our justice system, but no one believes in our justice system, so I don't whatever. It was just a bunch of government dorks being like this this we need to put us stop to this, and it's like, okay, we don't trust you. So basically Tuesday May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine, US district Judge John H. Wood Junior

Prosecutors and judges.

But this was the first time that a US federal judge was assassinated and he was sixty three at the time of death, so obviously this case is just focused on the shooting of the judge in the episode. It was a single shot with a rifle while he was heading out to work and he was struck in the back as he stood at the door of his car. His last words to his wife before he got shot was it's almost eight thirty. I've got to get to court. So he loved his job and then was dead. He

Making these decisions.

So whatever, I don't know, but these are also, you know, want to be judge dorks?

Can we trust them?

He was nominated by President Richard Nixon in October nineteen seventy. Before that, he went to Saint Mary's University and the University of Texas.

Law School and wildly dun dundun.

The person who is the hit man who took the job to kill him is Woody Harrelson's biological father. So white man can't jump. What are harder games? I mean, Woody Harrelson, Larry Flynt, Yeah, so yeah, Woody Harrelson. He didn't really grow up with his dad, and we'll find out about their relationship earlier.

But he is the hit man who took this job.

So Harrelson was hired by Jameel is a Jamel whatever, but they call him Jimmy Chagra. And if you know about drugs, he was at the time like the biggest coke and marijuana dealer ever. Like, he was just like a very well known international drug dealer. And he paid Harrelson two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to assassinate Wood, who was going to preside over the drug lord's trial. So he was trying to get rid of the judge so he didn't have to go to trial.

I mean, he still would have had to go to trial, but maybe he's like it's like, you don't you don't get out when your judge gets killed, Like, but maybe he didn't want somebody with such a high sentencing.

That's what it is. That has to be it. Like he's just known for doing that now.

So Harrelson got two hundred and fifty grand for this and he's done more for less. Okay, he was sentenced to fifteen years for killing a man for only two thousand dollars, So yeah, he served five of those fifteen for good behavior. And then he was also acquitted of another murder of an executive at a carpet company, and that I think was only for like fifteen hundred dollars.

Like he just he was just kind of a chill ass. He was doing it for the love of the game man. He just loved to murder.

So Sam de Gellia Junior was the victim that he got charged for.

He was like a father of four. So it is very sad.

And the first trial ended in it with a deadlocked jury. But in that same case and trial they found his partner accomplice, guy Peter Scamma Rod whatever this guy named Pete got. He was sentenced to seven years probation for the murder. So it is weird that one person found guilty in the other was like a deadlock jury and it led to a mistrial.

But whatever.

And then Alan Berg was the victim of the crime he got acquitted from. He was tried on May twenty eighth, nineteen sixty eight for the murder and September twenty second, nineteen seventy was acquitted by a jury in Texas, And I don't really know how.

Another fun moment with him is he had.

A six hour cocaine induced standoff with authorities near Van Horn, Texas in nineteen eighty that led to his arrest on drug and weapons charges. The police were called to the scene for this standoff after there was a gaunt he was like firing guns at imaginary FBI agents while high as hell. So that's how they like apprehended him eventually for some of the some of his fun doings. And now you understand more about Woody Harrelson. So but you know,

This sounds like a full This sounds like a full movie this man's life. Yeah, it doesn't he sound like a movie character like that Woody Harrelson would play, Like, yes.

Absolutely.

It's widely believed though that Harrelson was involved in the world of organized crime, and even claimed to have been connected to the nineteen sixty two assassination of President John F.

Kennedy.

What now, Some reports say that he was one of the tramps photographed on the Grassy Knoll, like three people were kind of arrested.

There's photos of them, and there were hats and.

They were never fully processed and they were set off, and so the like conspiracy and everything was that he worked for the government and that's how he was able to get off, get out of these crimes and not be charged.

For stuff and interested.

But I don't know why the government would work with someone so sloppy.

Yeah, and who goes into like cocaine binges and sees them.

Yeah.

And so I also don't know if the JFK rumors are real or he started them, because a lot of accounts say that he would just like tell people.

That he did it.

Sure, but Woody Harrelson had an interview with Barbara Walters and it was quoted saying he believed his father was a CIA uperative. Okay, but again, I mean maybe the CIA gets people of all different types and then if that's the case, I'm available.

But I don't know why they would work with him.

And you know, Jimmy, like I mentioned, who hired him, was a kingpin of marijuana smuggling in the seventies and was notorious for his lavish lifestyle and gambling habits.

Hello gambling, So yeah, no, I love it.

So Jimmy and mister Harrelson they met in Vegas gambling, and that's how all of this kind of started. And for years federal prosecutors in the Southwest had been at war with Chagra and the and his l Paso family of Lebanese immigrants, so he was everyone was staring at him like everyone wanted him. On February twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine, he was indicted on five counts of trafficking

Do you think I should kill Judge Wood?

And so that's where the planning started, and Joseph said, yes, I think you should, and okay, and the trial was set for May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine. Sound like a familiar day, Yeah, that is the day of the shooting. Oh wow, So he was on his way to that court case.

Joseph.

This lawyer ended up receiving a ten year sentence in exchange for testimony against Harrelson, who legit said that he told him that he killed the judge with one clean shot in the back.

So Harrelson like confessed to Joseph. Wow.

And this whole case, like after Wood got shot. It was like the FBI spent tens of thousands of man hours more than eleven million dollars in search for Woods killer, and the investigation lasted nearly three years. At first, the investigation was going slowly with the US Attorney in San Antonio, so then it was shifted to the Justice Department in Washington, and it was considered the biggest FBI probe since President Kennedy's murder. Like all fifty four branches were working on this.

James O.

Ingraham, Deputy Assistant Director in the FBI's Criminal Division was put in charge of investigating the killing of wood and US marshalls were assigned to protect all federal judges in the area.

The case was kept.

Away from reporters and they maintained tight wraps on information of the case and keeping it tight tight, And from the beginning, the federal officials never wavered from the belief that Chagra was at the heart of the murder, and they all thought it was him. And that's another reason it kind of took so long. That the stakes were so high. They didn't want to blow the case. They needed all the evidence they can get, and they knew

But they taped everything.

Aw they also taped conversations with Jimmy and another prison inmate who agreed to cooperate. So the government recorded more than one thousand conversations, most of them by telephone, but there was just like lots of stuff. And because Jimmy was in jail for drug charges beforehand, so they had like conversations from the time that he was in jail

Huh, so his brother was murdered and then, okay, I.

Don't even know if that's connected, but if there's a murder in the family, I'm gonna mention it.

I don't know what to tell you.

This whole time that the case was starting, the youngest brother, Joe, who was a lawyer, was trying to get Wood off the case. He said that would was biased and prejudiced. But like old Judge Taft from SVU, he got to overrule their motion and did not grant a change of like of judge, but did grant a change of venue.

So he overruled that.

So what's wild is the murder took place fourteen blocks from the scene of a November twenty second ambush where two gunmen fired fifteen rounds of bullets into the car of an assistant US attorney James Kerr as he left home for work when he was only but he was only injured slightly, which is good. And he also specialized in narcotics prosecutions and presided over very important cases before would.

Jesus being a judge is like scary at this time period, but.

We didn't really think about it.

And it reminds me of the Zapata case with you know, Alex Cabot and having to escape and that they're they're down to kill witnesses, judges, lawyers, They do not care, and so a lot of stuff was happening. So after the shooting happened to Kurr, all the judges in the area got guarded by federal marshals and they had protection. But the judge asked for it to stop shortly before Christmas, which might have been a bad mistake because within six months he was killed.

But I don't know how much.

How long they could have protective detail over every judge in San Antonio. I mean, yeah, they're spending so much money, it's wild. You could just also make drugs legal and then everything would be fine and there wouldn't be all this bullshit.

Yeah, it's almost like the war on drugs doesn't work.

Kerr was kept undercover for a while until he returned in a very dramatic fashion to federal court in January to prosecute a narcotic smuggling suspect who was defended by Joe Chagra with Judge Would presiding.

I mean, this is like a soap opera television show that this guy is representing all these drug kingpins, including his brother who's one of the biggest drug kingpins.

And that's what actually solidified the government's theory that Harrelson was connected by them and hired because they're like, why else would Joe Chagra be defending him?

You know, he's just a hillbilly lunatic.

So in turn of like keeping in the family, actually they told on themselves. Yes, and you know with all this, I don't oh god, yeah so much. But it also like brings to lighte That's something I don't think about where it's like all the judges and lawyers see each other all the time. They're all friends. They're all not like they're chatting like it is this little community. They're not strangers, and they all know who each other are

I don't like if you hate some lawyer, can you be impartial?

Like? I don't know.

We give too much power to people.

So February nineteen eighty one, federal agents armed with search warrants went to Joe Shauger's home and the homes of all the other family members to gather evidence. They found tapes of conversations and a rough map that showed Harrelson where he had left the murder weapon, and of course collected drugs too, so there was.

Like a drawn map.

The map, though, didn't help lead to the weapon and evidence was questionable, so they had to continue their person of additional evidence and spent months trying to pit the people in the case against each other, hoping that someone would testify. Then there was a break where a rifle stock was discovered near where the map located the murder weapon, and it was traced back to Joe Anne Harrelson. Joanne Harrelson was this guy's second wife. She was tried and convicted of purchasing.

The weapon under a false name.

And this is a little bit tied to the episode, and I wonder if they did that on purpose, But.

She used a fake name. It was Fay King, which is faking.

Oh yeah, like bend Over.

Okay, yeah, so I don't know, you know, Neil Behar might have to let us know if that was on purpose or not. But if they were taking from this case, that kind of makes sense, but faking. So it was purchased with this fake name twelve days before the slaying.

Wow.

And I would never say slaying because Tomys slay is just drag race, but they kept saying it in this and I kind of like.

It, like to switch it up before he death dropped.

Yeah, the FBI did get someone to flip, and that was Teresa's Star, Jasper Harrelson's stepdaughter, who in the past had been jailed last like the year prior on contempt charges for refusing to testify to the grand jury. But she surely ended up testifying and not being indicted in the case, so trust no.

One.

Shagar's wife delivered the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Harrelson's stepdaughter, Teresa's Star, at a Las Vegas hotel and took delivery of the blood money to carry out the hit on Judge Wood. So you can't do that, Yeah, I guess that's o crime. You can't be moving around blood money now. In March nineteen eighty one, a Dallas newspaper reported that the judge had actually been trailed for several months before the shooting.

The Dallas Morning.

News of the surveillance began after a secret meeting in San Antonio in December nineteen seventy eight. Like they found proof that Charles had rented a case for a week near the bea near the beach home of the judge in Rockport, Texas, while the judge was also vacationing.

Ooh, that's so sketchy.

And this was all scooped by an unidentified man who says he was at the meeting and was offered big bucks to do it and a cocaine connect and everything, but to provide and dispose of them after the murder, and he had no interest in doing that. Jimmy Schagar, though, who hires the hit man, was acquitted of murder and conspiracy of murder in Jacksonville, Florida, but was convicted on

Of cancer in Arizona. So Jimmy Chagra is dead.

Elizabeth Chagra, who is the wife of Jimmy and was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy to obstruct justice. She was was accused of lying in her testimony about the purchase of the hunting rifle that was used, and she lied in saying she knew nothing about a trip made by her daughter and the trip to pick up the cash. She was sentenced to thirty years, which I think is fucked up.

The wife got thirty years.

Yes, conspiracy to commit murder and construct justice. Yeah, I guess if you help out, because well someone told me, like if you're the getaway car, you're still charged for murder, right, Like, if you're a part of a murder or something taking place, you are charged with everybody else.

He barely served thirty years he served it looks like he served twenty five years.

Yeah, and you know, we learned from the Aileen Warno's case. They don't really give women deals because the jails aren't over done. Yeah, I'm kind of sad for her. So she got thirty years and she died in prison in nineteen ninety seven of ovarian cancer, and her family fought really hard and try to get her out, like for

So I don't understand these sentences at all.

Joe Chagra, who was the attorney, He pled guilty to conspiracy charges and served more than six years of a ten year sentence, and he died in a car accident in nineteen ninety six.

Yeah, family is like kind of haunted or yeah.

Or you're a drug dealing kingpin. Yeah, it could be karma. Well yeah, curse.

Well, I don't know if curse. Yeah, ovary and cancer, car accidents, these all seemed like things that perhaps were brought on by karma.

Yeah, who knows.

Yeah cool, because you said I'm lucky, and I go they had something to do with their luck.

I'm not.

Harrelson was defended by court appointed attorney Thomas G. Sharp, who defended him on the two previous murder for higher charges and one ended an acquittal and.

One you know with that sentence. So whatever. Anyways, this trial was eleven weeks.

Charles Harrelson was convicted in nineteen eighty two to two consecutive life terms plus five years, which is really funny. So he was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, murder of a federal judge, and conspiracy to obstruct justice, which was that extra five years. And that came after eighteen hours of deliberation. And then I read that during when they like the jury was saying that not, you know, we found we find this defendant guilty.

People were losing their minds.

Like I understand the Lacy Peterson case, people are going to get upset about some stuff. But here the accounts say that a bunch of the jury were in tears. One woman shook visibly and broke into sobs. Another juror collapsed in her chair after the verdict was read and needed to be helped from the courtroom.

I'm so confused. This is like a career criminal. Why, yeah, I don't get it. I really don't get it.

If any had him, he was supposed to murder my ex husband next week.

They're so sad.

Accounts from the courtroom also say that Harrelson was at ease and leaning back in his chair and even giving the jury little smiles.

It's like, I can see Woody Harrelson doing that, Like, you know, will Woody Harrelson has that sly smile.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

He was wearing a three piece denim suit, which I love.

Okay.

In his testimony, though he said that he was set up by another guy, he said that the gun was given to this other guy, not by his wife. He also said that someone borrowed his car and he was not using his car that day, and it's like, bro, it's you. But then he also like I think he loves attention. He gives me a lot of tiger king vibes.

This is Daddy Craigan.

Energy. Yes, Daddy Craigan was.

Kind of doing like you carried this dead man's body at his funeral and now you're.

Presiding over the case.

Yeah, but he was the chief judge in the district, so he was allowed to do that to himself. So Harrelson goes to prison. He gets two life sentences, the extra five years. Now, I cannot get enough of this guy.

A real Who's who?

Who's who? Are they all put to death?

Now?

Yeah?

I actually don't know. The unibomber is dead, right, he's alive.

I wonder if he's still writing.

Okay, do you still write?

I liked the talk about it. We'll write him a pen pal letter. Yeah, girl in this episode and be like.

Do you still right?

Do you journal?

So?

In nineteen ninety seven, Woody Harrelson bankrolled his father's unsuccessful appeal and attended the federal proceedings in Texas and Colorado. But to appeal after an escape attent is very LOL to me. You appeal to be like, no, I'm a good guy, but like trying to escape prison, then appealing is like the wrong order of stuff.

I wonder if, like he thought, oh, if my now my son is kind of famous, maybe I'll get off because of like you know, you never know what goes through people's heads, Like.

You know, my son's bankrolling. He'll be showing up in court.

Maybe this will draw more attention and they'll let me out or something who.

Knows, Yeah, he so.

Woody Harrelson in an interview, says that he tried for years to get him, to get him free and get him a new trial, and they're like, do you think he deserved a new trial, and Harrelson says, I don't know if he deserved a new trial, but just being a son trying to help his dad, and then he spent a couple million dollars, I don't know whatever. So he didn't think that his dad was innocent, but in his head he's like, I'm just gonna help my dad

A parent, like he can't really he doesn't.

Get it, but says that when he was eleven or twelve, I heard his name mentioned on a car radio. I was in a car waiting for a lady who was picking me up from school, helping my mom, and anyway, I was listening to the radio and it was talking about Charles Harrelson. Thinking there can't be another Charles V. Harrelson. I mean, that's my dad. And it was a wild realization. So he was just like in a carpool with some other woman and hearing about his dad being a killer on the radio.

Pretty wild.

Anybody said, the lady was really really nice to him and realized what had happened.

Was like a nice lady, So that's cute.

Charles died in prison March fifteenth, two thousand and seven, at age sixty eight, and the federal building on Caesar Chavez Boulevard is named after judge would So there's a building named after the judge, and that is his legacy.

Sucks that he was killed.

Everyone's dead in prison, or yeah, it seems like everyone here is dead. So if you want to know more and deep dive into the John F. Kennedy of it all and all this government conspiracy stuff. You can check out Steve Fery's podcast or you know, some wild sources on the internet that are not up to our standards. But yeah, this was interesting. I like the Woody Harrelson connection of it all. And maybe he will make a

And so then.

The dad got a new judge and that judge squashed the appeal and maybe the other one wouldn't have. But yeah, so that was just like a little moment that I liked hearing about, but I couldn't find information about it.

But at the end of the day.

These are just like trash criminals who were willing to murder for one thousand dollars, damn and set up their wives Like why not? I mean, obviously people are people, and this is not my own personal opinion, but if I was a drug kingpin, I would not be setting up my wife. I wouldn't have my wife do the blood money. I would hire, Like, I don't understand.

Why they Yeah, this is.

Not hard or I was gonna say, like, you know, I'm sure there was some sex workers running around, Like I just don't know why you wouldn't.

I guess feel like you can't.

You can only trust family to bring you back two hundred and fifty thousand dollars cash and not run away to Mexico or something. That's the only thing I'm playing devil's advocate for a drug king Finry.

No.

I would like to know the reasoning because to me, it's like, well, now your wife had to spend thirty years in prison and die slowly.

I mean, and this is like.

She sounds like Orange is the new Black character, Like this is the kind of shit Red was in jail for in that show. She was just like, you know, shit that her criminal.

Husband got her involved in.

Well, thank you for all that in depth research. Lease, I knew nothing about this and it was very interesting.

Yeah, I wonder if we would know. Well, I guess it.

Was like the first federal judge that was ever assassinated. But I wonder if we would care or know about this case at all if it wasn't for Whatdy Harrelson's connection.

Yeah.

Interesting true, and that the guy tried to take credit for JFK.

I think I love that all.

On that love that.

What if you could take credit for one crime? What would you take credit for? I'd be the Zodiac.

Wait.

I was listening to Christina Ricci on Whitney Cummings podcast, and I guess she played Lizzie Borden in a movie or TV show or something, and her research showed that Lizzie Borden is not guilty and that she was set up And there's all this evidence that Lizzie Borden was did not do it.

And so we do want to do that episode?

What episode is?

Is it the Sarah Paulson motherfucker Sarah do our show?

Yeah?

I would love to see. I would love to be able to learn.

Check it out. Yeah, all right, well, we have a hot, hot guest coming up, so don't go anywhere, guys, this week's guest. I'm sorry I was a blushing heavily over Zoom because we've had some very hot guests, but this is one of our hottest guests of all time.

And I'm sorry to interrupt, but I was so mad.

My hair looks crazy and I kept trying to fix it throughout the interview. Not like I was about to go marry this guy or anything, but I was just like, cauld, I just please look good in front of him, and I couldn't. I remember my curls. It'll live.

It's like I was fidgeting. I could. I was not chill. I was not chill.

Well, especially for Liza, because this man is from a very iconic episode of Sex in the City. He is in a one of my top ten favorite movies of all time, The Double Wars Prada. You can catch him recently in The Stars crime drama PowerBook to Colan Ghost, but you know him well as CSU technician Bert Trevor. Guys are chat with the one and only Daniel Sunjada. We can't believe we're talking to Bert Trevor.

I know now you know what's crazy. I didn't think my character had a name when I first got the job.

But the first episode you were bomb Squad guy random And then how did the jump go to play bird? Did you have to audition again? Did they just say we need this guy back?

So this is how that happened.

I got confused last night when I was watching the episode. The way that happened was I was sitting in my apartment in Flatbush, Brooklyn. I'm eating like chicken wings and rice white rice once a day, trying not to take a second job so I could be available for auditions. I get a call from my agents that I believe it's Julie Tucker. I believe it was Julie Tucker at the time he was doing casting, and they're like, got

I remember what he did.

But the episode that I watched last night, Jete, was it season three, episode nineteen or whatever?

That was?

Yeah, Yeah, that was a totally different that's Bert.

Yeah, that's Bert go Bert.

Yeah, well, that scene is iconic.

That bottle has stayed in my mind for decades and it's just like one of the best scenes ever. Did you break the like, do you remember that bottle scene? And are the facts that you say all true? Because you say a lot of you come in, you like blow up the case and then you kind of leave and yeah, it is all the science real and tell us about the bottle moment.

I don't know if the science is real, it's certainly it certainly seems to be based in reality. So I mean, I know that there are laboratory, you know, forensic laboratory technicians who do that kind of job. They kind of helped deconstruct the crime scene for the detectives and help them, you know, on their journey to solving the crime.

Splatter pattern.

When he was talking about the splatter pattern and the way the blood droplets went down the stairs and it seemed like she tumbled over and all that, I think that they can really tell that kind of stuff from evidence left at a crime scene, physical evidence.

The mother sure was sloppy though, like, yeah, she's like you know, I mean I believed her too. I believed her up until the end.

But yeah, shooting that scene was actually really nerve wracking. That's why last night I was like, I think this is the day that I know this was my first episode. I couldn't even remember season seaton that I started in season one, So yeah, that day, for some reason, I

I had to act.

The direction from the director was that he's like, he's like a mad scientist in his lab and he's like super exit.

This kind of stuff turns him on.

He's really excited to, you know, to share with him what is what his conclusions are.

So I'm trying to play that, you know. And then it was it's a very small room.

So when you're shooting in a small space and there's like two or three people in that space, hitting your mark is very important. Otherwise the camera. Otherwise it's a problem for camera. And I just could not hit my mark that day. I just kept I was so consumed with remembering what I had to say.

And the thing with the bottle.

I had to hold the bottle in an awkward angle so that it looks natural on cameras. Sometimes you have to instead of looking at your phone like this, they need you to like do this, you know, so that for some reason, so that it looks you know.

So it was a similar situation with the bottle.

I had to hold it and break it in such a way that took forever. And anyway, I remember between takes, I was basically having a panic attack because I felt like I'm going to get fired.

This isn't happening fast enough.

And Chris Maloney from across the room, he was just like Dan and I looked.

Over at him. He was just like this, calm down.

And I was like, I just needed somebody to just give me the space to just, you know, take my time. And it was a very it was a very generous moment. To this day, when I bump into Chris, I remind him of that. He was like, I remember, man, you were freaking out.

You're freaking out. So anyway, that's the story of that scene.

Wow.

Yeah, it must be harder to memorize the lines when it's all the science chats, yeah than regular.

It definitely is, because you have to say it. You have to speak this technical jargon as if it's second nature to you, actually, as if you're such an expert in your field that you have to dumb it down a little bit for the people that you are explaining it to. Meanwhile, you're just an actor. Pretending, you know, there's a reason why I did not go to medical school. There's a reason why I did not study you know, criminal whatever psychology.

So yeah, that could be a little tricky.

Well, I was just gonna say, even though you haven't had all this training, it seems like you get a lot of roles as authority, fireman, cop, FBI, And I guess, what do you think it is about you that I don't know?

I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't feel very authoritative in my own life. And yeah, I guess that's true because there was rescue Me, and I don't know. I guess it's like a lot of your The way you get cast has to do with how you are perceived by the casting directors. When they get a script, they break it down. Now they're looking to what actors are they going to call in for these roles? And I just pictured them looking up and blo, blue little thought bubbles of like fifteen different people.

Pop up and then they go you you, And I.

Guess, yeah, I'm one of the faces that pops up when they need a cop or something like that.

Yeah, and we noticed there was SVU Rescue Me overlap do you remember, like working with your Rescue Me costars on SVU and we're bumping into each other.

It was James mccaffree.

Oh right, James, my guy. No, I don't remember that. I don't remember that, but I do remember both productions being very generous in trying to work it out so that I could do both things at the same time. Sometimes, you know, if you're contractually obligated to one job and you have an opportunity to do a second job, the first job will just say no, just because they can and they want you to be totally available to them.

To help a young actor get their career going.

Yeah, and it sounds like a lot of the New York shows are also very cool when it comes to people doing stage stuff. They'll try to like help people get out on time to like get to do you know Broadway or off Broadway stuff.

Doo.

It's true, which is probably different than LA.

Definitely different than LA. Not that there's no theater out here, but that's one hundred percent true.

When did you move out here? It seems like you were in New York for a really long time.

I just got here, my girlfriend and I just got here, I'd say two weeks ago, and yeah, I'm finishing another job and then after that we intend to stay here for a while. But I have lived here before. We were in Larchmont Hancock Park last time.

The best Noah's Bagels, No's bagel. You might not be eating bagels, but.

I'm all about it.

Well, this is a little off topic, but.

You know, we were researching you and usually when you type in an actor's name or an actress, like, the first option is always like wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, husband.

How have you been able to escape that there is nothing?

Yeah, there's no.

Dirt on you.

We're trying to get some uh, there's.

Some there's some random blah blah and some you know, blogs in the deep web.

Whatever.

You know, it's people will say. People will say whatever they want to say about you. I just at the beginning of my career, anytime I had an interview, I made sure that it was understood that I'm happy to talk about the work. I'm happy to talk about my education, I'm happy to talk about all kinds of things, but I'd.

Really rather leave my personal life out of it.

And even then sometimes they'll try to like, so, who's the lucky lady, and you know what I mean, But.

I just find it, you know.

I think the less people know, once you open that door, then it's wide open forever. And people just feel entitled too,

Really, I don't really care. It actually tickles me.

Yeah yeah, And I stay out of trouble in case you right, I noticed I stay out of trouble.

Yes, yeah, you do.

Well. That's good though.

So, having been on like sixteen episodes of this show, you obviously worked with all the different detectives. We're getting the Maloney scoop from you, et cetera. Was there anybody that you were like super excited when you got when you were like, oh, I got a scene with this person today. I'm so excited to work with Ice or I'm so excited to work with so and so, Like I know, you just.

Said it, Yeah right, you just said it. I mean Iced Tea. I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.

And we were in some scenes together, but my fondest memories of him are just the stories that he would tell when we were in the hair and makeup room at the same time, and stuff about street life and you know, pimping and you know, the pimp game.

And the rap game and stuff. And I would just sit there and just listen to him, and I was like, Wow, Iced Tea, this is crazy. I can't believe it is he Is he still on the show?

Yes, Oh my god.

I don't think he's got any plans to go anywhere either.

He loves it.

Let me tell you, when you were on a show like that and it's now it's three four seasons, you've basically heard from Dick.

As long as you want to be here, you're here.

The checks that these people are bringing home, I wouldn't I probably wouldn't leave that job either.

I mean, on top of the fact that not only is it running, so you're getting like a guarantee episode you know, episode order every season, but then the syndication, Yeah, on ten channels at the same time.

And I'm sure you're getting some checks. I hope you're still getting some fun.

Not really, not really not I think that not really at all.

Actually I did for a while, but the merger between SAG and AFTRA, they didn't really negotiate the best deal.

For the actors.

And there was a day when you would make almost, if not more money in your residual income than you made on your contract, even if you were just a day player.

Now it's a new day. Now you have to be a series regular in order to do that.

What I wanted to say, though, is that it's never really been to be on what I would consider to be a procedural show as a series regular. I could see myself doing it for a short period of time, but I don't think no matter how much money I was making, I wouldn't feel artistically and creatively gratified doing it for almost two decades Like this is my opinion, my perception, but often the most interesting characters on the show are the guest stars or the person that might

That's not the right one.

Well, we've heard different people say this, say similar things to us too, that people that were regulars on the show for a long time were like, you know, after X amount of seasons, it started to feel like my character wasn't really growing anymore. But right, you know, Ice is still find in the fun I guess, and he's got you know, he's also on a show where they let him bring Coco with him wherever he goes. She's with him all the time. Yeah, they're throwing lavish parties for baby Chanel.

I mean, I think they're having it. I think they're living a good life.

Well, so you mentioned that the guests have like cool lines and all that, and it reminded me you're in one of You're in a lot of iconic, iconic episodes. But do you remember you're in an episode where the guy goes, I had sex with my sister and then he pukes.

I do remember that. I don't remember what. Yes, yes, I do remember that.

Families and people are obsessed with it. Everybody wants us to cover it. But it's not based on a real crime, I don't think.

But okay, you're in one of Neil Bear's favorite episodes. I don't know if you guys ever connected on the set and what was the it was course Coerce. Of course I was with the Kashistis. It was like a guy with schizophrenia trying to kidnap us a boy.

Okay, No, I don't recall that.

I mean we're like, remember so many of the Yeah, some of these you probably only were in for like a scene or two, and we're like, do you remember?

That?

Was kind of like I was so grateful that that I was on for like was it seventeen nineteen episodes? But it was the kind of thing where they made it easy, like they it would be like once every three episodes or four episodes, I'd come in and do like two drive by scenes like what Trevor. It wasn't like it every week or and every day kind of thing.

So it was easy to fit that into into the other stuff I was doing.

We have bad habits.

Sometimes we'll ask a question and someone's like, that was in two thousand and two, and I don't I don't know what you want from me.

So I definitely no that it.

Was No, but you you know a lot of details from that episode Justice, and that was you know, eighteen years ago at least.

So that's that's because I watched it last night. But I haven't seen it. I see, Yeah, I watched it because I knew that's what we're going to talk about today. But I haven't seen any of my work on Law and Order in a very long time.

So really general, do you watch yourself?

What?

How do you pick and choose what you watch? I mean, you are un Rescue Me for so long?

Do you watch every week er specific ones or when you just started where you like, how to watch.

With my family and let's get food? How does that work?

It was when with the Rescue Me.

It was me, Michael Lombardi and Steve Pasqual that were the young guys that had got cast on the show. And when I tell you, we were excited, like we literally we met in Times Square when they put the billboard up, and we were like, WHOA.

My god, We're on a billboard in Times Square. You know.

We didn't then stand there and wait for people to recognize us and ask us for autographs. But yeah, we used to have viewing parties and we would get together at each other's cribs, and we did that for about the first one or two seasons, and then you kind of, you.

Know, I would say, it's your job.

You're still passionate about what you're doing, but the excitement kind of wore off for us and we became just more focused on the work in general. Unless it's something like that, it's a situation that I'm just super super excited about, or I'm wondering if how it felt to me when I gave the performance, if it came across

You know what I mean.

Yeah, when you were on SVU, did you ever did you ever befriend any of the other CSU texts like Melinda Warren, Melinda Warner, Mark Doyle Like, No, we.

Never got close.

I mean our paths would cross occasionally, but no, I didn't make any like I.

Would say, long term friendships.

And the last person that I've seen was was Chris was Maloney because he cast me in this show that he did called Happy.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.

So you know, he and he just called me out of the blue. Again.

I really needed a job at the time, and it was a straight offer, and I was so grateful. I did not watch that particular. I did not I did not.

Watch Happy, But that's because of my vanity. I was.

I was a little rotund in that role for myself, so I was. It's an image conscious industry, you know, we're all so neurotic about that.

But yeah, I guess if he wasn't happy with the way I looked, he probably would have been like.

Oh, because he was this fitness yeah, oh my god, Oh my god.

The guy is to this day he is jacked.

Yeah.

No, his butt, his butt had a real summer. I feel like he was having a real hot butt.

Summer, but summer, lots of squats.

I want to talk about Sex and the City and Devils Proudie a huge, huge, like, I mean, there's Miranda up there.

How was it? I mean, there was the height of that show.

You were a young actor, like you were getting SVU and stuff, Blake, how was it booking it wearing a cute little navy outfit and did people lose their minds?

I got recognized more for that single episode of TV, and I'm talking this was for years.

I was it was more than rescuing me more than this, more than that.

When people did stop me on the street, they would be like, you were on Sex and the City and.

I was like, yeah, that was meaning. It was great.

You know, the producers, in particular Sarah Jessica Parker, who as the star and an executive producer on the show, doesn't have to be nice to anybody, but she was so generous, so kind, just made the acting so easy,

I believe, Wow, I didn't even know that.

I'm almost positive it's the Fleet Week whatever.

I think the Fleet Week episode.

Which was such a lie because I moved to New York excited for Fleet Week because of that episode.

And then they're just they're like teenagers and bell bottoms.

You know. It was like, it's such a disappointment because it's like you're expecting someone like you and then it's it's it's not.

It was not.

It was a disappointment. Real Fleet week was a disappointment.

Well, you see, now it was a mix because the guys that were on the street with me when I stopped the taxi cab for Jessica, they were kind of the belt. They're more the guys that you say kind of I'll say, let you down.

They were very good looking young men.

They were very much but they were but then they cast you know, there was another guy who was like like a naval officer, you know what I'm saying, and like, yeah, they don't go those guys don't go out in New York for fear.

Yeah, the guys that are at that.

Level, Oh my gosh. I was going to say, like, I wonder what you get recognized the most for. And I bet it's like between Devilware's Prada and Sex and the City just because you know, you really stick out to women and they say.

Something like Devilware's Proud. I've seen at least twenty times. They watch it on flights all the time. It's just kind of always and same with Sex and the City. There shows that you NSVU, you're kind of like, we're going to see you a lot.

Yeah, yeah, sure. At Doubleware's crowd, it was a really good movie.

I thought it was just going to be kind of like you know what the people normally they basically chick flick that only women would want to watch it. But so many of my male friends were like, I watched it because of my girlfriend. But actually it was really good. I was like, it's it's a well done film. It's worth the price, the price of admission just to see Meryl Streep's performance.

Is like, no, it's so good.

Yeah, how is it working with Meryl Street?

So, to be completely honest, and I do like to say that I worked with her, but really I worked in front of her. I didn't really have a lot of dialogue. I can't even remember if we have.

In that movie of her like referencing you, like that's James Holt, like and then that you the camera pans and it's like you and it's like, oh, James Holt, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I guess the biggest scene that I had with Meryl was my character is presenting her with his new line, his new fashion line inspired by blah blah whatever.

And still I did have words to say to her.

But then in the movie, it's all over its voiceover, you can't hear what I'm actually saying. Right, you just see her purse her lips in dissatisfaction and turn her head to the left.

Soul crushing.

Do you think James Hole deserved the pursed lips?

Was that dress?

Suddenly?

I actually thought that that dress. You know, I don't know if I have great taste in fashion, but I thought it was pretty nice. But it just speaks to how high her character's standards were.

I think I don't know what your audition process was for Devilware's product, but were you like, like, you've played like a fireman, a navy guy, a CSU tech FBI agent, all these things, and then they're like, we want you to play a fashion designer, an up and coming fashion designer.

Were you like, Okay, yeah.

That's great.

I mean, anytime you have the opportunity to establish range outside of the way you have been being cast. Not the firef not the cop. This is like something totally different. And I don't even think James Holt's character is in the book.

I think it was.

I think he was created for in the context of the film. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think he's in the actual book. No, I was all over that, I was like, this is great.

Is there anything that you are working on now that you're really excited about or and you would would like to share, well.

Right now something that's airing that again in the spirit of a character that nobody would expect me to be playing. On the Stars Network, there's a show called Power Book two Ghost. So the flagship show is just called Power and I was a huge fan of that show.

Oh yeah Power, right yeah.

Courtney Kemp is the executive producer alongside Curtis Jackson.

Fifty cent right, I was.

Going to say, it's fifty cent show, right.

Yeah, yeah.

And so Power was on for six seasons. I watched every episode of every season because I just.

I really really liked it.

And then I got a call from Courtney Kemp and she just basically offered me this role.

The character's name is Mecha Mecca.

He's like a just like Where's like gorilla pimp, fur coats and bald shaved head. And they dyed my beard black and I was like working out like crazy trying to get like my idea of the character was he was like a big, physically imposing kind of like dude, and he's the heavy for the entire second season. He's the bad guy wow and Mary J. Blige's love interest. So I got to act with Mary J. Blige, who yeah,

I have been watching that. I have been.

Watching that, yeah, because I was excited to play that well Mary J. But the character, the character that I got to play was so unlike anything I've ever gotten to do before. And Courtney was like, how do you feel about rocking a bald head? I was like, yes,

Yeah, because like I think your hair is a little bit of part of your signature. Look like I think of you with your hair usually.

Sure, and I know it's short right now, but I still have my hairline.

Okay, And now I want you guys thinking, all right, Okay, this is this is a choice. This is a choice. That was a great experience.

And right now I'm shooting a show called Echoes for Netflix. It's a Netflix limited series. The star of the show is Michelle Monahan. After that it's Matt Boehmer, and then after Matt, it's me, is it like.

A murdery thing? What is it?

What's yes?

It's yeah, it's like it's like a it's like a there's a murder mystery aspect to it.

Michelle Monaghan plays twin sisters.

And uh and they're both married, and they both were in Virginia, but one sister and her husband moved to La Okay. And that's those are the scenes we're here to shoot. We're almost done. The other couple stays in Virginia. The sisters almost annually switch places and they think that the husbands don't know there's a reason for that, but that would also again be a spoiler. And they will, like when they're in transit, they will meet at a

You know.

One of them speaks with a you know, Virginia accent. The other is very la So the styles of the.

Two sisters are totally different.

So one of the exciting turning points in the show, and I don't think this is really that much of a spoiler, is that my character does know that they're switching.

He and he has and he's a he's a psychiatrist.

Are you one of the husbands?

Yes, I'm one of the husbands.

Yes, I'm the l a husband and so so he has known and he's always known that.

And that's a little weird right there.

Wait, this isn't true. I'm gonna I'm watching. But that's what's so TV. It's like we have to wait like what a year and a half. It's like I want it so bad.

Yeah, you know.

When it comes out, we're gonna get dive right in. That sounds right up my alley.

I think that should That should probably be Echoes Netflix limited series, only seven episodes and it.

Should come out later this year. I think that's it. That's all I got.

I wanted to add I'm from Skochie. I read that you're from Evanston, and so I got excited.

So I guess you could say I was born in Evanston, but I was raised on the South Side of Chicago, but technically born in Evanston.

I'm a White Sox fan, Okay, I'm a fan of all things Chicago.

Yeah, I don't take science Cubs, White Sox, Bears, Hawks, whatever.

It's all good, Daniel, Is there anything else you want to like, like any last minute tidbits, your memories, bond memories from the show, or anything.

Law and Order SVU did a tremendous amount to advance my standing and position as an up and coming actor, the level of visibility that it afforded me, the income to continue to pursue my dream, pay my rent as an actor. It really was probably one of the biggest moments, if you want to call it, well, it's over the course of about two and a half years, one of the biggest moments in my development. So it did so much for me and I always look back on those

It has done this for countless actors in New York.

It is a to say it's an iconic shows and understatements you can't. I can't overesteem how important the franchise has been from a creative standpoint, because nobody's ever done what Dick Wolf has done, but also just from the standpoint that I that I just enumerated, it's a great place to.

Be Daniel Sinjada, it's great.

I can't wait to watch the show Echoes. I can't wait. It's like Twins Secrets, give us more Net. I like Got Actress too. I like Michelle Monthaum.

Because a part of me wants to cancel Netflix with another price raise.

But for Daniel.

Sunjata, I'm sticking with it, and for our careers, I guess we just have to be I fucking flecks all the time, all day.

Every day.

But I'm really glad you made us through that episode, Lisa, because I mean, you didn't make us, but you suggested it, and I just like you were like the bottle moment. The bottle moment, I was like, do I remember this? And then when I saw the episode, I was like, oh, yeah, this episode is perfect twist and turns like so oh like crazy.

Yeah, there's so many elements we love, you know.

We love an expensive store moment, we love like a government worker being kind of shitty, like we.

Just like all of these things.

I was speaking a government worker, a girl from my old college, from my Christian college. She was like, yeah, you never really went to class, and when you were there, you were pretty rude to everyone.

And I was like, I don't remember this.

But then memories came to life.

What do we learn from this episode that we haven't learned a thousand times before?

But on she works in foster care. Oh, my friend from college.

It's part of what we do here, and like, you know, looking for Patricia's records and everything. But she works at foster care and she checks foster care.

Parents if they're like doing a good job or not. And I was like, well, what are the.

Signs that you look for when someone's not you know, you could just tell. She goes mostly lying, like if you say you don't have guns, and then I open a door and there's guns.

That's a problem, and.

I go, oh, okay, and I think I could tell that was a problem. But we talked about the WHOOPI Goldberg episode and institution will fail and just like foster care, and it was really.

Interesting to meet someone that does that.

Sorry, I don't mean to completely talk over Liza.

But it's you know, I like meeting people that are within the the things that we talk about because it means we're doing a good enough job for these people that are inside of it and talking about things that matter to them. So it makes me happy. But yes, please, what did we learn don't marry a man if you have children, they'll rape your children. No, that's not the lesson.

Well, I mean you gotta look out for red flags. It's like when you were talking about that other podcast, like she just knew something was up, Like trust your intuition, trust your gut, Like if you feel like your husband's doing something fucking weird, yeah, I guess, check all options.

But this bitch didn't care. That's the thing.

What the girl was like, my dad is the thing, and the mom killed her. You're saying, like, if you get a gut instinct that this man might be harassing.

You're talking about the other podcast you were talking about when the woman thought that her husband was cheating and it turned out he was taking the foot Yeah no, I yeah, and so what.

Yeah, don't be brooked. We learned that don't be brooked.

Don't like sacrifice your fucking teen daughter, so you can be rich and have two kids like with him.

Yes, real life, real life, I forget.

Yeah, yeah, I was talking about the real one. But also I did not like Craigan in this episode trying a stone wall and make it act like just because you're in a robe and just because like, have we not learned Have we learned nothing from years of SVU and years of real cases in the media where robes and uniforms hide what people's bad acts are.

Right?

Absolutely, I just didn't like that Daddy Craigs was giving people preferential treatment.

But I think in the end he be objective bit stuck it to Walter.

All right, let's wrap up this post mortem. Just a good episode, And I mean, I don't know what we learned from We learned that, like, if you grow up and your son is Woody Harrelson, you can literally just get away with.

Murder five time.

I mean I kind of got away with murder a lot of time.

Also, you think being in the FBI or an informant or like a worker in the CIA or something is hard. But if this hillbilly could do it, what is stopping all of us from going undercover? The fact that the FBI has not reached out to me. Is such an insult?

Let me help. Yeah, I'm willing would be.

The most unexpected undercover operative, right.

I mean, obviously I'm pissed you guys killed Martin, Luther King, Huey pu In, Like, I'm mad you guys killed all the Black Panthers and stuff. But if I need to, I'll help bring down a terrorist as long as they're why, Like, I'm not gonna help you, you know, cover it.

If you guys have any any contacts within the CIA, FBI, NSA, just drop us a DM or you know, hit us up on the National Security Association. That's like, also very.

Okay, But I won't do anything with Homeland, got it?

She has demands.

I yet watching salt Lake, and I do love the FBI thing. I just I'm in episode twelve right now.

So you be part of that Homeland, You're like, if it involves a housewife, I will be involved.

Yeah, but put me in a PA outfit. I'll the boom mic, I'll get the secrets.

Although the way that they treated her family was fucked up. They the way that they had guns on her teen sons.

Yeah, but the videos didn't look like the guns were up, but the boys did have their hands up.

Yeah, that seemed just like a way, like you're traumatizing these teen boys because their mom did like a fucking scam over the phone price.

It's weird watching people delusional saying they're innocent when that's like, we know that you're guilty, but you're right. Have Like watching her cry about her children was very guttural and rare.

Yeah, but it is wild that she's like acting like the FBI didn't do a year's long investigation on this.

The FBI doesn't fuck around like that, and.

The Southern District of New York has like a ninety nine percent conviction rate.

Girl, you think that you're just like an accident.

Like and everyone else in your company played guilty like girl girl.

Girl, Girl Girl. Anyway, let's get into our what would Sister Peg do segment this week. This is our weekly segment where we give you guys an organization, a book, an article, some kind of resource to give you more info on what we talked about in today's episode. And we just were thinking about poor Patricia and everything she went through. So we decided this week that we would direct you towards the American Academy of Child and Adolescents Psychiatries,

Living with cancer.

So that is a thing I wanted to just direct you guys to the No Time to Waste project.

I'm going to post that in our stories as well.

And she also was asking people to donate to First Dissents, which is First Underscored d s ce NTS, which is a nonprofit dedicated to helping those with life threatening illness continue to thrive through the power of outdoor adventure. You are feeling generous, I'm going to donate to that in the name of my friend, and I hope you do too.

Thank you, Kara. We're really well sorry to hear that.

And I hope you guys are able to give this week because a lot of you wrote and said that you do listen all the way to the end of the podcast because you're obsessed with us.

So thank you so much.

And I'm going to switch it over to what we're going to be doing next week in an awkward transition, but we will be watching street Wise. Feel but we've been waiting for this one for a really long time. I think street Wise has been on your requests in our hearts for a really long time. Season nine, episode eleven, Watch where you watch your SVUS.

I refuse to tell you where.

But you know we doret somebody write in and say that they're sad that you won't do it because they like they like the way you say peacock.

Okay, I mean if someone wants to get turned on, I will not say no. Okay if you well, now I'm shy. Plus listen Hulu. I can't next week. It's a teaser next week when I'm not nervous. Yeah, we love you guys.

Thank you so much for listening.

See you next week.

That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer Analie Snelson.

And to our mixing engineer RYO Baum.

And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song.

And to Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer and everyone at Exactly Right Me.

Yeah, listen, Subscribe and leave us a review on Apple podcast, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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