Intoxicated w/ Cathy Moriarty

Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done.

Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

My name is Kara and I am Lisa, and we're talking an episode of SVU, the true crime it is based on. And then we are talking to an incredible guest that was life changing. I did brag about this guest to my acting teacher and he was thrilled for us, and he was impressed at whatever. We'll we'll wait, we'll wait, wait for that. What's that, bitch? What do you have to say?

What is my whole deal? I I am good.

I had a funny thing happened to me over Friday. So unfortunately Lisa's out of town, or I would have gone with her. Because Trixie and Katia, two of our favorite drag queens, did play live in Los Angeles. We were very excited to go see them, but Lisa's out of town, so I went with another friend and I met my friend I was running late.

Oh he's a friend of the pod. Oh yes, it's Jed. If you were at our LA show.

He helped us sell some merch and he was there before me, having drinks and I was like rushing to get there. And so I get there and outside there's this huge line to get in, and I'm like, it's already seven thirty. Why doors were at seven? Why is there this massive line? But also we have a signed seats,

From like putting my kids to bed.

So as the line comes up and joins us, this girl behind us, like this girl with like fabulous makeup on, was like, oh, so you guys are just gonna cut And at this moment that this happened, Uh, that's messed up. Listener goes Kara Klank from that's messed up, And I go, uh what, And I like turn my head and it's this girl that's like, oh my god, I love your podcast. She introduces me to her mom. She's like, mom, she hosts one of my favorite podcasts. And I'm like, uh uh,

To meet you. Yeah, thanks for listening. Oh my god, I enjoy the show. Whatever.

And then by the time I turned around, Jed had just worked it out with the girl, so we were just in line, and I was like, wow, that was probably the best first recognition I could have gotten.

Like I just was like, are we gonna have like a fight?

I don't want to like fight with somebody, you know what I mean, Like, I don't want to get into a big thing. And then yeah, this girl was just at the moment that the girl said it, Kara L I was like, oh my god, this is perfect.

But it was fun. It's also perfect that Jed, your other fellow biggest gossip was both of you were handling your business on either end well, and I said to him, I go, what did you say?

And she goes he goes, well, she said, so you guys are just gonna cut, and I go, yeah, we are, and she was like okay. She just like respected it that. He just was like, yeah, I'm not going to fight you on this. I'm not gonna lie like we are kind of cutting. But honestly we were in line for five minutes and then we had to get into a separate will call line. I watched that girl walk in ten minutes before I could walk in, so it was like not, I didn't feel like we were horrible.

Don't come for me line cutter people. I would have said something too too.

I would have said something if it happened.

To me, But sometimes you just do bad things. Yeah, I was here just being jerks. But like it was hello to that listener. It was lovely to meet your mom, and I hope you enjoyed the show. I had a great time at trickstin Katia. They were fabulous and I think they're continuing to tour. If you guys, if they come near your city, go see them. And you got the cheas box I did.

If you guys checked out our stories a couple of weeks ago, you may have seen that I finally got the cheerios box with iced tea on it, and I'm gonna let Rosie know who coach Ice is.

It's gonna be really cute.

And then obviously the worst thing was we know about is like the mask thing. I feel like I have to finally go get boosted because I'll be flying.

I'm gonna be flying.

You gotta get boosted, girl. I'm going this week because if people are just gonna be maskless on tiny tiny fly its.

Just come do it. I didn't even have a reaction. Even if you do, it'll be like five hours, like, you'll be fine.

I don't care. I'm doing it. You don't even have to convince me anymore. I'm gonna do it. Well now I'll make a calendar and I don't think I will do.

You watch Potomac, of course, but I'm not. There's not a new season as no, there's not. But Ashley Darby just filed for divorce from Michael. Oh thank god. I feel like I have to scream to Julia right now. I'm in my friend's apartment.

Julia, Ashley Darby filed for divorce. We gotta woo wow.

This is huge.

Also, I haven't watched yet this is actually what I'm gonna do tonight, so maybe we'll have comments on it later. But Matt Rogers from less Culturista's fame, I'm a big fan of his, and I would say I think he's a bigger better friend to me than I like.

I think I think about him more than he thinks about me.

But he was on Watch What Happens Live with I heard Karen Huger looking fucking fabulous, So I cannot wait to watch that.

I know I can't wait to watch either.

At this point when this episode comes out, that'll be a little bit old, but like, go check out about Rogers on Watch What Happens Live?

He is a star. I'm so glad Ashley's filing for divorce. That is, he was a bad man and a criminal. And the fact that Bravo continued to have like a sexual assault on the payroll.

I feel like, I feel like maybe this is rude, but I feel like she was like, just get I just want a sibling for the kid and then get the hell out of here, you know, Like I don't know, because she got pregnant real quick after that first one, and their marriage did not seem like it was going great.

But it's also a reality show, so what are you? That is very my thing is So for those who don't know, Ashley did not grow up with her father, And then in the show first season maybe second, she goes to her bio daddy's house. He opens the door, seize it's her, and slams the door in her face. So for someone like her to then choose maybe not

She's a young'sh gorgeous, She's so gorgeous it's crazy. And she seems like she's a great mom, but Anyway, congrats Ashley, if you're listening.

Wait, we were talking before I got that big news.

We were talking about the mask mandates been lifted on airplanes, so you're gonna go get boosted. Honestly, I'll probably still wear masks on planes a little bit, but I will take them down once I'm in my own little seat and I'm just like got my jacket kind of like over my face, like when I.

Sleep, you know what I mean.

Maybe in first class. I don't know. I just maybe in first class there's no germs up there.

There's but the seats have like the barriers, like laid down seats are a little bit more aggressive. Yeah, that's true.

I just feel like if I'm traveling and it's a short trip and I can't get sick, like I've done so many little quick trips to New York where I'm like, fuck, I just got sick on that flight. Now I'm kind of like my baby shower for Rosie in New York, I was like sick the whole time because I'd gotten sick on the flight. So I don't know flights, I might keep them on, but a lot of people are pissed. I'm seeing a lot of epidemiologists on the old Twitter. They're mad, They're like, we shouldn't be doing.

This, but of course they're mad, and this is my thing. It's like, I don't want to wear a mask. We've I've been very clear. I do not love it as as much as all of you. I've gone to concerts and all of that, but like the celebrating, but also just like, so you want to be in a little tube for six plus hours with no mask with strangers, Like, how do you know someone's not flying with COVID and

Are absolutely unhinged on flights, Like it's gonna be You're gonna get sneezed on now now that the masks are gone. But I think my problem with this decision too, is that it was handed down by this judge in Florida who's some thirty five year old woman who's not has zero trial experience.

She was appointed by Trump.

She's a full like you know, hardcore Republican who like loves DeSantis, and she in her decision and was like, masks don't do anything.

It's like, it's okay.

I think it's okay to say numbers are down. Maybe we're at a place where now it can be an option. It's not a public health crisis anymore. That's like one thing to say that, it's another thing to say masks don't do anything. And the mask mandate was stupid from the beginning, Like that's what this woman is saying, and that's to me bullshit.

I also don't understand how but this keeps happening. It's like the Mitch McConnell of it all, Like how is one person ruining our lives?

That's what a lot of people were asking on Twitter too. They were like, how is one judge from Florida making this decision? I don't really get how that gets to happen.

I don't either. This is not about masks.

But I follow a tattoo artist and her partner on Instagram.

I follow them. I have tattoos by her Emily Malice.

Uh huh.

They were staying at a hotel and across from them in a building there was a man playing a snare drum. From one to four in the morning, and they were like, what the fuck? And then her partner posted that it's like an extortion tactic and people will play music outside and be like, if you give me four hundred dollars, I'll stop playing. And and he's by a hotel, so then it's like people might be more frivolous to spend money or their vacationing or a business trip the hotel.

They might have to people scream down to the hotel and say, hey, get rid of this person or all.

But can't they call the cops?

I mean, I'm not I don't like, I don't advocate calling the cops on like non violent criminals really, but like, can't you threaten to call the cops and they'll get you for a noise complaint?

I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea, but I guess because they were like, what the fuck, why is he doing this? And they did some research or someone let them know that it's an extortion tactic.

Wow, to just.

People finding out tonight? People finding out new ways to make money all the time.

Huh.

Well, I you know, I stayed in a luxurious hotel for a few days while I was here, in New York and I paid a little extra for a city view room. And I got to the room and it was truly looked at a building and I couldn't believe I was this person. But I called and I go, honey, no, no, no, no no, I'm either getting some discounted or you got to give me a city view.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah?

And the staff was incredible. They were like the best people. I really like loved everyone that worked there.

But they moved me.

But then it was a city view of Brooklyn, and I'm like this language, this is a trick. Yeah, this is a trick. I'm in New York. You know what I want to look at? Okay, you know what I want to see it night? You know what fantasy I'm trying to create for myself? How dare you make me look at Brooklyn? But it was pretty, but I did feel tricked and did not love that. Did we talk about our hotel that we stayed at in Portland. We loved that hotel.

It was really awesome.

In the bar was grabbing the bar servers were really weird and I think you'd left already. But I had a Gatorade bottle with me. I was like whatever, I ordered drinks like everything was fine, but I had a Gatorade bottle with me and one of the servers came up to me and goes, is that your gatorade?

And I went yeah, and he goes, can you put it underneath the table? And I was like okay.

But then Julia, our friend, mentioned like, of course it's my gatorade. Why are you approaching me this way? No, it's not fine. I'm just hugging it with my hold gatorade for a stranger. It was just such an asshole move to be like is this your Gatorade? And it's like, yeah, I'm holding it, but I'm also staying here and I don't know why you're treating me.

Like shit, but yeah, Like if you're staying, if it's a hotel bar, it's like it's an extension of where you're staying. Like I wouldn't walk into like a nice restaurant with a gatorade, but like the hotel bar where you're staying at the end.

It's it's midnight, it's like the end of the night. Well come on, and like Kara says, I love that shit. If I see a white glacier cherry Gatorade zero. There's no way I'm not buying it. But also you didn't know this, Like I ordered drinks, put my card down, and then you came and I wanted to run with you back up to the room to like just gossip and look through our presence. But they thought something was wrong with me, and they kept asking our friends, like

That is weird.

Oh, speaking of the gifts, though, I would like to say thank you to the woman who gave me and Lisa both these cute little pouches that say, forget being a princess, I want to be Olivia Benson. Rosie is now using it to keep all her gems in gems that Lisa has given her and I've given her, so now she has this cute little Benson bag of gems.

Also, I did wear the underwear of that listener gave you too. She said it wasn't weird, and we're like, this is weird, but it was. It was almost wrapped up plastic when we opened it, like it was fully wrapped in packaging. And I washed it obviously before I wore it. But they were very comfortable.

And another shout out to the Denver person who gave Rosie her drag squash mollow.

She shows it to everyone that comes into her house and is obsessed.

And all the gifts that you guys have given us have been so beautiful, but I really wanted to thank you guys for the pouch.

Well you know what else in that pouch there was a pink like squashy oh. I came it to Rosie, I know, because you were like, what am I going to buy her? I have to bring her something? And I actually forgot to text you, but I took a photo of my there's a toy in here for her.

No, and I went and I for I remembered as I was walking up to my gate, I go, fuck, I didn't get her anything. So then I'm there considering buying her this Delta plane that like makes noise, and I was like, I can't this will ruin my life. So I ended up buying her one of those magic marker books where like the marker like makes the pictures show up that you give to a kid to like busy their time on the plane.

And then as I get home, I'm like, I had a toy with me the whole damn time.

But that's okay. She got two she got two presents. But that was cute too.

You guys are always thinking about my kids and helping me be a better mom.

What else? That's it? I mean, you get started. We should definitely get started. It is a great episode. I went on a terrible date on Sunday.

You cannot say, let's get started, and then I went on a terrible date.

Liza, do you want to talk about it or do you want to tell me off camera?

It's gonna be a cliffhanger for next week? You do you think anybody does?

I'm gonna listen this week, and they're not coming back next week. I hope you guys come back every week. Jeez, let's kick off this episode. It's an awesome episode, and we will don't go anywhere. We'll be right here, all.

Right, everybody, buckle up.

We are doing Intoxicated, Season six, episode nineteen. We open on a couple rolling around under a floral comforter and you can tell it's a teens room. There's like oversized like lip kiss behind her and stuff like that. And then right away in walks the one and only Kathy Moriarty, a true like hero of mine from the movie Soap Dish. But I'm a cheerleader, and she is like in the

And that was a good impression. We also wanted to say it is cool that we each are obsessed with Kathy, but in different ways totally different movies. Yeah, and we have not seen the opposite movie. Yes, so I think this is a room for a slumber party. Yes, for sure, I'm We're having a Kathy Moriarty theme slumber party.

I need to see.

But I'm ature leader, like very badly because it's a total blind spot that I haven't And Lisa's never seen soap Dish, which I think that she would truly love.

Andrew Paul's in this one, and your's a star studded. But yeah, it was a great impression. She plays a great wild woman and I can't wait to well, I know what happens, but keep it going.

Well, So now we finally see this horny little couple go out from under the covers and the daughter is Danielle Panabaker, and it's like thirty seconds into the episode and we're already getting two stars.

Wait, how do you know Danielle.

Danielle Panabaker's from tons of stuff, Like my husband watches her in the flash, but I think she's wait, wait one minute, let me just it's not just some IMDb.

Here, because she is, like you were a star studded. I'm like, I've never heard of this woman, Amo you haven't.

Oh my gosh, she has three point eight million followers on Instagram.

Wow, I mean, I've to me she she had the potential of like a Lily Reinhart moment where it's like, oh, a popular white teen from the high school musical, you know, something like that. But like that's what I assumed. She was a team star. But who you're She's a legit bona fide working out well, She's literally worked a bunch and then did us for you. And then after like she was a regular on.

A show called Necessary Roughness, which I think was on USA, but then also Justified. She was in a bunch of episodes of Justified.

She's on Arrow.

She plays this character named Caitlin slash Killer Frost on Arrow and The Flash, and so I've seen it because Jared watches The Flash.

Well I be yeah, so I'm sure she's doing the superhero circuit.

Yes, and she also she also guests in Supergirl, so I bet she knows our our man Chadlow who's directed Supergirl and is in Supergirl.

So yeah, she is like well known I think for like the CW crowd not to know. There was no shade thrown at Danielle. You just real you just didn't ye star studded, and I was like, you gotta well, I wrote.

So many stars thirty seconds in like thirty seconds and we're eating like the two big stars of the show, and there's like all this there's this generic Foo Fighter's music playing behind them, and the mom is yelling at them like what did he do to you? And it's like very clearly it's consensual sex here, Like what's the

Moriarty heightened sass.

And then the next scene is like a regular cop walking Benson and Stabler through the whole situation.

He's like, her name is Carrie Eldridge, she's locked in her room.

She's crying that he's her boyfriend, but her mom's calling it a rape, and Stabler's like, you guys couldn't taken care of this, like come on, and they're like, we hear the R word we're supposed to call you, Like, I mean, I just love how it's very like, okay, panty police is here, you know. And so the mom is there and she's like, why don't you just break down the door. I caught this man raping my daughter. And Olivia's like did she say she was raped?

Like what's going on?

Like, you know, we can't press charges over sex that was consensual. And then she drops the box, which is he's twenty one, she's fifteen, and listen, that's not great. That is not a great age difference, you know, I don't love that. I mean, Danielle Panabaker definitely looks older. I'm sure is older, but it's like, not in this context, that's not a good look for this boy whose name is Justin. And then they somehow get Kathy Moriarty, the

He's gone out the window somewhere.

Stabler goes outside and finds him shivering underneath a blanket, naked on the roof, and he's like a million in trouble and.

He's like, are you twenty one? So he's arrested, baby, and then it's the credits. But he does look like an upstanding citizen, you know what I mean. He doesn't seem like a dirt bag, right, So that's what makes all of this so tough and gray and sv you worthy.

Yes, And also I think that they try to make that like a little bit clear at the beginning, because at the very beginning, when they're like canoodling under the.

Covers, it's like, you're so beautiful, I love you. Like they're very loving. It's not like a it doesn't seem like a, oh, I'm just gonna like molest this little girl and then bounce. But who knows men are wild?

So Olivia now has Carrie an interrogation and she's just still claiming that they're kissing, and then Justin's was stabler. It's the classic gender divide interrogation, and they're both denying that any sex happened. And then they're doing a little bit of like a Romeo and Juliet moment where he's yelling through the wall like.

I love you Carrie, and she's like, Justin, it's very you know, it's very CW. I'm loving it.

And then Daddy Craigan is talking to Denise the mom and she doesn't get what Carrie sees in this kid, and he Craigan's like, what about her dad? And she's like, Carrie's dad bolted the second I told him I was pregnant, and she doesn't want that to happen to Carrie, and she thinks all justin wants a sex so you're not like jection, Yeah, you can tell she's got baggage about it.

But also it's like, I would be nervous if Rosie was fifteen dating a twenty one year old. I wouldn't be happy.

I don't know that I would be bringing the authorities into it, but I wouldn't be excited. And then Craigan's like, have you guys ever discussed counseling? And Denise's like, Carrie refuses to go. But then we switched scenes to Carrie going, my mom flipped out when I even suggested counseling. So you get this idea that someone's not really fully telling

You know you'd have to she should hit up Stevie Lynn Jones, Yeah, about how to be an independent teen an independent teen woman who I think has a good relationship with her parents but just want to be an independent kid long hours.

Yeah, She's like, abuse my labor restrictions. So she explains that, you know, you can't really just get emancipated. Your mom has to give up parental rights or you have to be like living on your own and supporting yourself. It's not quite as easy as just like peace out mom. So Carrie is like, I love justin I'm not just running away from my mommy issues.

I swear like war in love.

And then Benson calls them Romeo and Juliet, and Stabler's like, yeah, but Juliet's too young and Romeo's too old, and it's like, actually, Stabler, I don't think you've ever read Shakespeare. Juliet is actually thirteen in Romeo is sixteen, so you're wrong. But I don't know how much Shakespeare they're getting over at, you know, Bayside whatever high school he went to on Staten Island

So she's gonna like force her daughter to get a rape kit. It's really yikes.

And so they're at Bellevue now with surferdo doctor who we've seen before, this man who I do not think fits in as a Bellevue doctor, but that's just me. And he's explaining like a rape kit to Carrie. He's like, we're gonna swab you for you know, DNA, and if we find any of his semen inside of you, then like that's proof that sex happened. And she's like, but I said it didn't have and doesn't that count for anything? And they're like, not really actually, because your mom is nuts.

That is so good?

I can't So this affair is confirmed, and it's like out there, it was on with.

It was on Wikipedia, and then there were all these like, you know, it's on her Wikipedia that she was married to John Malkovich and then they like and it's crazy because she was in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. And I think like nineteen eighty eight, and that was the same year as this like affair and everything. So just as her star is exploding, she finds out her husband's cheating and I love her so much and I was so I

Well, so what year was that movie, because now I'm I want to know when Michelle Pfeifer was already married, And it says she married David E. Kelly in nineteen ninety three.

Yeah, so I think this was late eighties, So I don't think she was yeah, yeah, because she's been with David E.

Kelly forever. Yeah, and they're like a very talented little duo. Yeah, they're like a hot Hollywood couple first and she's well, so you know, they're the movie game that I love, where like we all go in a circle and we list as many whatever. I got made fun of because during Doug Love's movies one time, the only Harrison Ford movie I knew was What Lies Beneath And so before we started playing the circle game. Someone was like, I just want to clarify. She only knows Harrison Ford from

I had no idea, and I'm like a very I'm like an old Glenn Headley fan, and I just did not know she was married to John Malkovich.

So I love this goss and arrested and he.

Does look like a cheater. I heard he's an asshole. I do I have heard.

Well, it was funny because all of the site sources that were cited on Wikipedia were like I'm John Malkovich, I do what I want or whatever, like I didn't actually get to read all of them, but it was like seemed like it was, you know, confirming it.

Yeah. But and all of his characters are like very cocky. Yeah yeah, he plays cocky, know it all very very well for sure, for sure.

So she breezes in Glenn Hedley and tells everyone she carries attorney Simone Bryce and that this rape kit ain't happening, and Denise is pissed. She's like, she doesn't have a lawyer, and she tells Simone to shut up, and Benson goes, take your daughter home, and she's like, my daughter's been violated.

Whose side are you on?

And Benson just like takes a second and goes hers and it's like a very classic Benson Burne that I love. And yeah, so this lawyer kind of showed up just in the nick of time. Back at the precincts, Elliot and Olivia are kind of arguing over the ethics of the whole thing as they are wont to do. Olivia wants what's best for Carrie, but Elliot's like, yeah, but it is a crime, Like we got to go buy

To have a test like this done. And he's like, my daughters have nothing to do with this, and it's just a you know, the classic tense back and forth between them. Well, yeah, I like that.

It's convenient.

It's not about your daughters unless you want to make it about your kids that we always do. All right, it's so true, that's so true. It's like, yeah, then my daughter's nothing to do with this.

And then he's like, I'm a father of five kids, like and then it's relevant, you know, whenever he says. But Craigan arrives and he's got a stern Olivia my office and it's like ret row, Daddy is pissed, so we are in trouble. And he's like, Denise has gone to one PP to say that you talked her daughter out of a rape kit, and Craigan's like, it's kind of funny how this child's writes attorney showed up just at the nick of time. And Olivia's like, yeah, I'm

Ready to rock again.

And she comes in locked and loaded with these jizzed on sheets and a comforter and she's like, I've also got all these emails from Carrie to Justin and they're like, okay, but does this say anything about sex and she's like.

No, but it's a proof of a relationship.

And they're like, we can't, like this comforter is not the smoking gun that you think it is, and she's like, but his fluids are probably everywhere and it's like yeah, but they have to actually be on or inside of Carrie to charge for this rape. And they can charge for in danger the welfare of a minor, but Craigan said that's a weak case and the DA might not prosecute, and she's like, well, I guess I'm gonna have to talk to the DA. She is like truly a Karen

Is like, are you the police? I called an hour ago about the ruckus from the apartment upstairs, Like he's very dramatic, this this actor, and they're like, uh oh, a ruckus. So they rush upstairs.

They find the apartment door open, there's blood spatter all over the wall, and then dunt On Denise is lying dead in the kitchen in a pool of blood, and then Stabler just goes Romeo and Julia kill themselves, not their parents.

End of act one. Wow, Wow, any thoughts before we keep going. I'm just sad we're not going to see where Kathy Moore are. Honestly, it's like obviously in the episodes, not as true. That is not as fun.

Denise, but she comes in.

I wanted to see her in court, babe, you know, I wanted to see her slap Novak across the face, spit on a judge, like I had a whole fantasy built in.

But she's great because she's so funny, but she also can be so villainous, Like she's a really versatile lady.

Very versatile. But you know, obviously this AD's to the to the episode. We want a dead body ten minutes in.

Obviously it's true.

So now next scene, we've got our Cudio Haller in there. He's like, I found the murder weapon. It's a big ass lamp and we found it in the incinerator room. And Warner is there too, and she's like her skull was cracked wide open, Like this was not like an oops a daisy fall like she got fully attacked. They're still looking for missing pieces of her skull. She had five blows to the head, plus wounds to her torso

They took my car.

The guy had blood on his shirt and the girl was screaming, please don't take me, we have to go back, etc. And then suddenly the anti crime unit radios them and goes, we just spotted the car, and then Ben's and his stabler are like, don't engage, we're on our way.

But also now we learn that she was right. I guess Justin did suck like she's dead in a pile of blood, like, I guess she was onto something. Well that's what we think, yeah, for sure. And you know, also like carjacking a young mom seems like not a great move either, I mean, you know. But so the anti crime unit's bout of the car.

They stopped this Volvo station Wagon and in the front seat is a couple that could easily be Carrie and Justin, but isn't that they're like lookalikes kind of, And the guy says, oh, whoa my friend Justin and I just switched cars. He's like, he's in my car, a ninety nine Mitsubishi that's silver. And they're like, is this your phone? And he's like, no, it's also Justin's phone. We switched phones too, Like what are you talking about? And he's like, oh,

She seems stoned as fuck, like the whole time, she's so relaxed, just like Olivia, you know, I can't do that. Yeah, I don't know. She's that's like her acting style too, which I kind of like.

So it's just like very chill, and she like, Olivia is like, you're obstructing justice. And Simone's like, Olivia, you don't even know that I know anything, so you know, I'm not obstructing shit, and Olivia's like, fuck, you got me, And so Novak confirms what she's talking about. She's like, she cannot break privilege unless Carrie calls her and says

Done.

Done. So then they're like, oh, right, done, But let's not pretend that's not a saying. It's not what I mean exactly.

Olivia's like it was Carrie's idea, and it's like, don't jump to conclusions.

That's literally a saying for sure, that does it.

I don't think that would hold up in court as like a full like murder plot is a one text that says that colloquialism. So then the info comes into Taru and he's like, okay, here's we call the phone three times, here's where it's been paying one is like Katona.

I like know where these places are because it's kind of near where I grew.

Up Katona, and then another place upstate, and then finally they they realize that they're basically just headed upstate, so they find this local.

Payphone where they made a phone call from. I don't know how they found the payphone but anyway, the local cop shows up and helps them out a little. You don't think in season six there are payphones.

No, no, no, there were payphones. But I just don't know how they knew that they made a phone call from a payphone. Oh, because it was to Simone's self. Sorry, it was to Simone's thing. That's how they found out they were making a call from a payphone to Simone and it was in this town. They go to this little town. The local cop like tries to help them out. He's like, I showed up, but they're long gone. And then they're like, let's go to the town's tiny restaurant, see if they know anything.

Like it's very funny to me, like just separate fork in the case where they're like, let's go check out this tavern. And they show a picture to the owner and he's like Justin, and he tells them he knows Justin's family. He used to work at that restaurant. He's got a family house up there, Ding ding ding. So they go and they find Justin's family's cabin. They surrounded, it's snowy. They both come out of the cabin, Carrie and Justin, and then they arrest Justin for kidnapping. So

They slap down a couple of risly photos of Denise's murder. He is being represented by Hattie, Trevor Langan, mister Hargateay and Stabler's all up in Justin's face and he just keeps like, very calmly, being like I did not do it, like I did not kill this person. And then Craigan's like, so was it Carrie's idea? And he goes, no, it was her lawyers, So what was her lawyer's idea?

Murder? Like what you know?

It's very uh, what's going on? Simone getting more involved? So now Olivia is talking to Carrie and Simone, who's like, yeah, I told her emancipation is easier if the parents are dead and there's no guardian. I wasn't suggesting she murder her mother. And Carrie is like not budging. She's like, I love Justin. He's all I have. I will not say that he did anything. So now they are kind

So anyway, but you know, there's like laws where if you're in the room and a crime takes place and you didn't stop it, you will be charged like you did it. You don't even have to be holding the knife, Like, if you're there not stopping it, you are held responsible.

I mean, I think Trump just put a guy to death who was involved in a really grizzly murder, but he didn't murder anyone.

He was just there and this guy just got the death penalty.

But anyway, Novak is like, listen, if Carrie doesn't give up what happened, the case against Justin is totally circumstantial. She's like, what I would love if you guys have a second is those bloody clothes. And they're like, yeah, those could be anywhere from like here to fucking Syracuse, Like we have no idea where those bloody clothes are. And then they're like, why don't you talk to Carrie and Justin's like work friends and people in their lives

You know.

Yeah, I'm gonna be like, let's smoke a thing together. No, I'm kidding, Jared would kill you. Oh my god, digrettes with Rosie if he came home and Rosie and I were just like gabbing around an ashtray. Oh my god, I don't even smoke everybody. I'm just saying we would all be taking the stand. And yeah, in a murder trial, yes, on a last would be called to testify.

Okay.

So they're like Okay, what about her friends? What's what's Carrie's like social stitch about? And they're like, she doesn't really have any She doesn't have any friends. She also didn't have a winter coat.

And one of the teachers centered to my office recently because her shoes were falling apart, and they they're like, did you tell her mom? And she's like, yeah, I called her. She didn't really give a shit.

But when Carrie skipped school, Denny's fully flipped out and sent a truant officer to the store where Justin works.

So it's weird where her priorities are.

She doesn't care for a daughter has a winter coat in a New York winter, but does care that she's hooking up with this boy who's older.

So also, our truant officer is the thing.

I think. So I don't think we had them where I grew up, but I think they exist in other places wild. Yeah, like people there, it's just their job to like chase down kids that are.

Not in school.

I don't know how that even works, but.

I'm sure someone listening is like, my uncle's a truant officer and we'd love to hear from you.

How does that work? And now they're at Justin's like computer job. I can't tell if he works for like Geek Squad or something comparable. It's like a computer job, but you don't really see like what it is.

And the boss is telling the cops like, yeah, I told Justin that Carrie's not allowed to be here when she's skipping school, like I don't want trouble with the truant officer and he says, you know what, Justin's a hard worker.

He's great with the customers. He's always on time.

I would be promoting him, but he spends too much time talking to Carrie on the webcam. And they're like, well, what happened yesterday? And the guy says, he came in at ten, he left at ten fifteen, he called back at two o'clock and asked for the rest of the week off, so sketchy. And then they're like, do you have those webcam conversations recorded? And he's like, yeah, they're

She's like please, I need you, I need you come over.

It's very whiny, it kind of annoyed me, but she's He's like, fine, I'm coming. So he hangs up, and then when you wait a second on the video, you see Carrie stand up and she's covered in blood on her shirt. So the cops are like, oh shit, Carrie was there first, like Carrie was involved in this murder. But Justin when he gets to the precinct, is completely unwilling to give carry up in any way, even though there's like full proof there, and his lawyer's like, dude, they know that you're innocent.

This would be the time to talk. He's like, absolutely not. I will say nothing against my team.

So maybe is a krimin. How does he know all this?

Maybe he's took a criminal justice class at the community college.

Because he is. He did have a whole plan set up.

He was very like, if we both don't talk, nothing can happen, Like they can't accuse one.

Of us if we both don't talk. But yeah, they got busted by this webcam. Shit, I don't know. She probably should have just texted him.

So Carrie and Simone are in interrogation and Olivia is like, your client has been lying, and she pretends like Justin has flipped, even though he fully refused to flip. She's like, yeah, Justin just told us everything. And she really turns the screws on Carrie and is like, yeah, it's like you know when Justin walks because you did everything, And she confesses to everything, and her lawyer keeps telling her shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up, and she's like, I don't even care.

Justin doesn't love me anymore. Nothing's worth it. Just who cares if I go to jail, I did it. I killed my mom.

So then they take her out, you know, in her handcuffs, to go to probably just like a holding cell, and they run into Justin, which is more of that hilarious TV magic that we see where suspects are always running into each other in an open place, and Justin's like, I never said anything. And then Carrie realizes that Olivia straight up lied to her, and she like comes for her and she keeps calling her, you lying bitch, Like she calls her a lying bitch like three or four times, and it's fun.

And her lawyer is like, yeah, that do that. I told you to keep your mouth shut.

She's like, can the cops lie?

And she's like absolutely, and that's why I was telling you to shut up.

And Olivia looks very shook, like because I think that she was trying to look out for Carrie, and like, now this girl is screaming bloody murder at her. So the next scene, Olivia's in the precinct and Stabler's just getting back from court and she's like, well, what happened, And she's like, Carrie's been remanded to Bridges and they're like, at least it's not Rikers. So that makes me feel like maybe that's some kind of female facility or something.

Isn't about PMS.

Like women with PMDD actually do get severe headaches, depression, paranoia, and the headaches can even cause like hallucinations, and Olivia's like it was definitely anger that made her kill her mom, and she's like, so she's gonna just get off because of this twinkie defense.

What's a twinkie defense?

I don't know.

I fall like fluff full of fluff and cream I guess never expires even in the apocalypse.

I don't know are Twinkie's good or not? Like, I don't know, I can't find.

My thing is with the Twinkie is I do like the Hostess cream because it's the same that goes into the Black cupcakes that I like, and like all the Devil Dogs and all the other well that's Drake's.

But you know what I mean.

It's a good cream, but I don't like the sponge cake around it. I don't think that that's good.

Annalie sent to something.

The twinkie defense is a derisive derisive. That's not a word. It's a derisive label for an improbable legal defense. Derisive is a word I've never heard. I keep wanting to say divisive. It's kind of the same word. It is not a recognized legal defense in jurisprudence, but a catch oh I'm gonna name my future Corgi jurisprudence, but a catch all term coined by reporters during their coverage of

Oh so, it's.

Literally not even about defense. It's not even about twinkies being like fluff.

It's about this guy said eating twinkies made him depress, Like eating twinkies in his depression made him kill.

Wow, I think you were just homophobic, sir. But oh yeah, someone who eats when they're depressed, I'll tell you never once have I wanted a murder. If anything, I'm full of love when I'm mean yeah food, Yeah, I'm like laying and can't function. Wow, the tweaky defense is real cool. Well, I'm glad we got I'm glad that Ane's was able to come in with the break. It's not a metaphor. It's like legit, you know, Capit be there, Novac being like actually in this case, blah blah blah blah blah.

You know, yeah, Chambers.

So Benson's all this twinkie defense and Novak's like, not on my watch, Huang, get your ass in there and examine her. So now she's having a Carrie's having a session with Wong, and she's describing her migraine severe mood swings, and she's like, I was always okay for like the ten days after my period. There's always like a reprieve period in PMDD where you feel okay. And then like when asked if she told her mom about it, she's like,

Doctor, And it was the New York Times. It was a New York Times. Yes, that's what I just like an if no grap you know. And we talked about this with UH with black people and doctors just being pieces of shit. I mean, I have several doctors in my family. I do love doctors.

I just think that there does need to be more attention paid to how women doctor and the pain of yeah, the pain of of you know, like people of color, and the pain of women is often ignored.

Well, that's the whole thing.

It's just like women are so used to pain in their day to day existence that they're just able to take it. And then men just can't handle even a side effect of a birth control, you know, like right, and so they're so dramatic and crying, and so that's why they're taken serious.

Like I don't know, I just don't get it. I don't get it.

Yeah. Like one of the main slides on that New York Times thing was like women go through enormous pain with like childbirth and period issues and all kinds of stuff that when they come to you with a with like a pain problem, you probably should listen to them.

They're used to ignoring pain like in a lot of ways, you know, so when they are actually taking it to a doctor. They're serious.

But she's got all this, you.

Know, information that kind of fits exactly into this PMDD defense, and she's like, I did feel angry towards my mom. My mom didn't want me to be happy, and she doesn't know how to love anyone except for herself, and she doesn't know if her mother loved her.

And then she's also I'm curious with PMDD, like are they like hatching up a defense altogether? Like how do they even bring this up? Did she know to lie about it? Or is she sitting trying to come up with a lie or do they believe it? You know what I mean? Like, how does PMDD come up in the convo? Is my kind of question with her lawyer?

You mean, yeah, well, I'm sure maybe the lawyer is going over with her like we got to go through your medical history like extensively to see if there's anything, you know, and she's.

Probably like, oh, I get horrible periods, and they're like boom, you know, yeah. Yeah.

So anyway, she also says, I don't remember anything. One second I was talking to my mom and the next she's lying on the floor in a pool of blood. And then she goes and I was so sleepy. So it is hard to know if she's selling the truth because everything is like fitting so perfectly into what Hoong just described.

But Huang is buying it.

Huang is like she's got all the classic symptoms, and Novak is worried that the jury will also buy it.

So you know, this is throwing a wrench into their case. So now in court, Justin is on the stand describing what happened. He said after it happened, Carrie was a zombie. She could barely walk. He was like dragging her, and he said that Carrie was like doctor jekyline mister Hyde, like she would all the time, be fine one second and then totally lose it.

So I guess I'm more I guess PMDD every day.

So Novak asks, well, did Carrie tell you that she killed her mother? And he hesitates, and Judge Petrowski's like, you got to answer, and he's like, I won't answer, and she's like, well you better answer or you're going to get contemptive court. And he's like, do what you gotta do. I love her and I'm not saying anything bad about her. And then he gets taken away for contemptive court, and he says, I love you to carry

Gotta be booze.

And so now Olivia goes to the Eldridge apartment and starts digging around and she somehow this is very funny TV moment for me, She somehow finds like thirty bottles of shitty vodka. But there was a murder in that apartment, like the cops would have found at least some of these bottles, Like they tore this apartment apart, but Olivia's like in the hamper, like she's finding all these like secret hiding places.

Well, maybe they weren't looking for it, because like let's say they're looking for evidence for a murder and they maybe they did find this booze, but it didn't matter to whatever was happening. Yeah, it just seemed to me like the amount that they found was like there might be an issue here, like this is a lot of vodka. Olivia was triggered by this woman before we find out the booze, like she just knew before she knew this.

Was definitely like Neil Bher being like, let's dive into a little bit more of Olivia's pass through this episode.

Okay, ye for sure.

So Stabler shows up at the same apartment, no clue why, and he's like, Olivia says, no wonder, I hated Denise. She didn't care about Carrie at all. She only cares about her next drink. And they're sort of like chatting, and you know, he's like, why did you come here? And she's kind of like I had a hunch or whatever. So then he finds birth control pills taped under the counter, and Olivia pops them open. Meanwhile, I can't look at my birth control pills and even figure out like what

Shows that the team did love her mom deep down, like didn't want to like smeth her as a drunk.

Like, yeah, personal shame that you're living.

Like that, but not having shoes and all that now makes sense, Yeah, exactly, And Olivia goes, you were too ashamed, Like I get that. Tell me what happened, and Carrie explains that when she was at school the day of the murder, she got a phone call from Justin who said he wanted to break things off because the mom was just making his life like a living hell. And she tried to deal with it at school but then she couldn't, so she went home and her mom was there.

So now we're at a bar.

Olivia is sitting there with Novak and she's like, nice, work on the birth control pills.

Now the jury is definitely going to convict. I kind of love Novack, like never having any sympathy for anyone, and Olivia asks her, like, Olivia, they suffered from schizophrenia. Yeah, she really exactly. And then she's like, well, I did have that one boyfriend. So she asks Novak like, would you please plead carry out? And she's kind of like, well,

She said yes because she just wanted to get away from her mother, and her mom said, if you don't break it off with him, I will get this dude kicked out of college. And she said, I'm moving out and the mom was halfway through a bottle of vodka.

She dropped it.

It shattered, and her mom picked up the jagged edge of the bottle and came at her, and Olivia said that her mom was screaming, I'll never let anyone else have you, And so she kicked her mom hard and then kicked her again and she flew across the room.

You know.

Now we're in court and Petrowsky is reviewing this plea deal. Carrie's going to get manslaughter and she's going to do five years. Justin hugs and kisses her as she's let out, and Casey clarifies because I thought it was five years in jail, and I was like, that's not going to be an easy five years for Carrie, but she'll be in a juvenile facility because she's only fifteen, so no hard time. And Simone asks Novak, like, why did you

And then it's dick wolf baby, Yeah, five years for killing your mom. Yeah, because when Ed Kemper got out after killing his grandparents as a teen, I was like, fuck this, but in this situation, yeah, let her out, you know.

But well they said it was just because Petrowsky said state correctional facility, so I assumed she was going to adult jail and then they clarify that it is not adult jail.

Well, thank you for that lovely episode.

Now I have zero of zero info on this case, so I'm excited for you to do. Yeah, not famous cases, but intriguing interesting. So we'll see you after our sponsored content.

Welcome back.

So one crime is based on this episode, the episode's based on the crime, and then one crime that is identical to this episode happened eighteen months after this episode aired, so we'll touch on it. But obviously, oh my god, I think it's so creepy when that happens, and like wild, Yeah, they don't either, they don't have a fortune teller on staff.

We would have known. I have Martin Short.

Yeah. I always love when I talk to people who aren't as SVU as us and I try to entice them and I'm like, you know, even Martin Short, and I go, what did Martin Short play? And it's so fun to be like a fake psychic who rapes virgins and murders them like a virgin psychic hound, because you know they're very shocked by that. So so we'll start here. We have a Valessa Robinson and she is a teen and the home of where this all happens is Tampa Bay.

Well, my family, A lot of my family lives in Sarasota, and you can fly into Sarasota, but it's more expensive, and so Tampa's like an hour away and it's better to fly in there.

So I've been to Tampa. I've spent some time.

Wow.

So Valessa's fifteen years old when this story takes place, and her mother, Vicki Robinson, was struggling to get control of her daughter. And I have Kathy Mori already in my head this whole time. But that's not what this woman looks like like if you google her, she looks on photos as a local bank teller with feathered hair in the eighties and a button down little power suit like. She looks quote unquote like a good mom or whatever,

And there was another daughter, Michelle.

We don't know much about her, but she was seventeen and she was actually visiting her father that night, and her sister said that Valessa just could not deal with the parents divorce. So the parents divorced when Valessa was eleven years old, and that caused her to change a lot and become quote unquote a bad teen. She was just not able to deal with the splitting of these parents.

It's like, did this mom do some shitty things?

Yes?

Do I think she should have been murdered? I mean, I don't know, Like, so this is the shitty thing.

So basically they were like fighting, and Valessa refused to go on to this vacation with her mom, and so the mom said, well, fuck you, then I'm going alone. And she went to Michigan for two weeks, which is wild that that's your vacation from Florida. But oh okay, So she went to Michigan for two weeks and she did not check on her daughter once, who was fourteen years old. That's wild. That's nice to get your kid taken away from you, for sure. Even yeah, so it's

Was two years old. Very roxy andrews of everything.

So he was a high school dropout and a drug dealer, and obviously he's a product of like his upbringing and like lack thereof and so this is a sympathetic case. But as a mother, I can imagine you not wanting your fourteen year old daughter dating this older guy who's dealing drugs. Right, so I get everyone, you know, it's like these are tough when you kind of understand everything. So the mom was very much like, if I pushed

But they just got way too obsessed with each other.

So by the time this mom tried to get involved Vicky, like they were intertwined so hardcore it was hard to break them apart.

And more about Vicky.

So she was forty nine, she was a real estate agent and a single mother of two. And so June twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, Vicky vanishes from her carol Wood home. And just before the murder, Vicki had planned to send her daughter of Alessa, to a Christian residential program called Stepping Stone Farm, and so a lot of the family says that she was working really hard to find a place to send her daughter to help her not be a bad teen, and so really stepping Stone

Left to step in Stone.

So we don't know if she found she got whiff of the step and Stone farm or now I feel funny saying it, or if she really didn't know that she was going to be sent away. So Valessa at fifteen, her boyfriend Adam Davis at nineteen, and a friend, John Wisple plotted her mother's murder.

They met at Denny's to hatch the plan.

And I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna hatch your murder plan, you gotta have moons over my Hammi?

Right? Isn't that Denny's. I don't know Denny's. I'm an eye hop girl. Denny's is below eye hop to me. And so I've only had Denny's maybe three times in my life. Well, I hop has rudy, tooty, fresh and foodie. Isn't Moon's over my Hammy Denny's. Uh No, Denny's to me is like to me, to this, to the grants, it's grand slam, Grand slam. Denny's is grand slam. It's just like so many meats. So that yeah, So they're

So I just googled it.

Though Moon's over My Hammy as Denny's. Okay, I didn't remember moons Moons over Hammy. I've never heard that. Is it also a is it a play on a pond? I've never even heard. Ye, there's a movie called Moon over My Moon over Miami, and so it's Moons over Miami. Sorry, I had to bring it up. It's so funny to me. No, I think it's I'm glad. But now I'm remembering when I Hop wanted to be I Hop and became a burger place for a day, and then we all was so mad, so dumb, so mad. I have this memory.

But I don't know, because do you have to get into the blood stream.

What if you're putting bleachin it would have done something. But maybe if you just do it into the like into the arm, nothing would happen, like into the muscle tissue. I don't know. Another great question for our medical listeners. So then when that didn't kill her, they he stabbed her to death? Is the official store the boyfriend Adam Yes wow. Wisper said that Valessa Robinson straddled the mother on the floor to help hold her down as she

Woo.

Yeah, so they went on a fun spree. But they used all her credit cards, Like it was not difficult to track them because I kept using Vicky's credit cards to do stuff. Vicky's body was found in a garbage can in the woods near her home. That's how she treated her mother. God get this woman off the fucking street. Vicky's family and Michelle, obviously the sister were pissed, you know, they were not happy, and they all stopped talking to Vellessa. They did not pay for a lawyer for her. She

Right.

Robinson did not testify in her own defense.

They did not let her, and then Wisple actually testified against the other two, so he turned on them. Officially, Davis went on to death row. That's the boyfriend, Yeah, and he stayed there for two decades, but was recently in twenty twenty one resentenced to life in prison and will not be killed because the jury split on his death decision was seven to five and now the low says you need a unanimous verdict for death, but he is spending life in prison. Wispole was sentenced to twenty

They're right, and I'm clicking, you know when it's always on right before drag Race. VH one always plays it because whenever I turn on my Dragways DVR, it's that shot of the little girls getting hit by the bus and then her like just kidding, and then the bus missing them.

Like I see that scene every Friday now watching drag Race. That's amazing now it really ooh, that would be fun Halloween costumes in that movie. It's just it launched it. I don't know, I fucking love that movie. We can go on and on, but we do have some murder to.

Come back to.

So Valessa was convicted of third degree murderer. She's only served thirteen years of her twenty years sentence. She's out. She's been out for like close to a decade, like she's been out, so that's wild. She was a minor, which changes the sentencing, But it's like she hatched the plan. I don't think they would have killed her mother without her, And the men are obviously pissed because they're spending their lives in prison, but they did the actual murdering. But

I don't know.

I don't really have an opinion about it. So when she first got into jail, she did get into a lot of trouble. There was threats, contraband sex acts. But then she got her act together and she became a model inmate. She took classes in fixing cars, building character, she taught aerobics to fellow inmates, and she cut off her hair for locks of love and studied nutrition.

So she went to a very high class jail.

So if you know someone that's committed a crime, I would try to maybe get them sent a Homestead Correctional Institution. It's near Miami, and it seems like they have a lot of great programming for their inmates. And so the reason she got released not only because of like her good behavior, that she earned. She earned one one and forty six days of gain time for her good behavior, but they also counted the days she served before she was convicted in this sentence, so that's what attributed to

This is fucked up, but is it?

Like I don't know it's but Robinson's lawyers opening statement really encapsulates maybe some thoughts that people have, which is, these nineteen year old men murdered her mom and now they want to blame her.

And it is true, she's fifteen.

You guys are full on adults legally, and you agreed to kill this teenager's mother. So I get both lawyers doing their job. But Velessa's now a mother of her own. She's been posting on Facebook from like twenty fifteen of her and a baby boy, so cool. She's married as far as we know, living in Ocean Springs, Mississippi. I saw photos of her in a bikini on a boat, so she was on a boat once. The judge who presided the case, though, was quoted in the Tampa Bay Times,

I don't know what to say now.

What happened eighteen months later, and this happened for the episode where we talked to Eric McCormick, And then during the interview, I go, did you hear about the real case of the woman being stuffed in a suitcase?

And it truly ruined his mood.

Yeah, we had a lot of listeners say, oh, you guys should do Intoxicated it's based on this case, and we're like, actually, this case happened eighteen months after the episode, Like yeah, so a lot of people connect these two.

Yeah, and it is an interesting case. I'm gonna touch on it pretty briefly. So it's the case of Barbara Mullinex, which sounds like musin X. It's difficult for me too, So I'm just imagining a family of little boogers living in a nose canal.

If I'm being honest, I like, that's who I see.

Rachel Mulnex Mulinex and Ian Allen of Huntington Beach, California were a couple who fell in love in two thousand and six. Rachel was seventeen and just moved to Huntington Beach from Oklahoma with her parents, Barbara and Bruce, who were divorced, but they still all live together until Barbara could get back on her feet and raise them alone. So Bruce and Barbara were not together, but they were

Now this is a trigger warning. I would say, Oh my god.

She was wrapped in a sheet and had a butter knife sticking out of an eye socket. The entire blade was embedded deep in her skull. And at first they did not have an ID for her body, but they were able to find and identify her through the serial number from her breast implants. So that's, you know, something else the su Yeah, and when the authorities got to the house, nobody was home, but they could tell that the murder had taken place. There there was like a

Was missing, he went nuts.

So he was very worried, and so that I think makes it seem like it wasn't him, since he's like, oh, fuck, if they killed Barbara, they took Rachel with so he's acting like a scared dad, but also did you murder your ex wife?

So he was suspect number one.

But as Alibi checked out very quickly he was in Fresno on business. They were all worried that the boyfriend had kidnapped Rachel after killing the mother, and an alert, a nationwide all points bulletin came out, which resulted in a sighting in Louisiana.

So they also went out on the.

Run and when they pulled over the truck, Rachel ran dreaming from the truck, but detectives right away were not buying her act.

Okay, she put it out there, but it didn't work.

They got footage from a convenience store in her and her boyfriend seemed real cozy together, you know, like they were buying snacks, very chill.

It did not seem like a kidnapp situation.

Or she was trying to get out and I know, we know about Stockholm and Patty Hurst and like maybe you were tricks, but they just were not getting that right. And as she was breaking down an interrogation, her boyfriend actually like felt bad and started confessing and explaining what really happened, and he had a lot of remorse.

He was not happy about what went down.

The prosecutor for the case said that Rachel is a sociopath who is incapable of feeling anything at all. The jury deliberated for four days and sentenced her and her boyfriend, both of them to twenty five years to life. Ian is in Chuckawalla Valley State Prison in blythe California and Rachel is spending her time at the Central California Woman's Facility and she will be eligible for parole in twenty

So it's we just get a.

Little bit about that. It's so close. It's like, do you think that she saw the SVU and was like, we can get away with this? Like I wonder, no, I this seems frenzied to me, because you'd cover your tracks, you would just do better, you like, but they're also teens and they're dumb, like if you're but we taught you know, some killers are smart, some killers are dumb.

I don't know what to say, but like not good, not good?

You know.

Well, thanks Lisa for doing the research on the dose crimes. There my pleasure, honestly. Yeah, And you guys, do not move.

A muscle because we have a killer interview coming up. Guys.

We obviously love every single person we get to talk to on this podcast, but sometimes we get someone that we're like, we really can't believe we got to talk to them. This actress has a body of work that is truly unparalleled. Raging Bowl nominated for an Academy Award. Soap Dish one of my favorite movies of all time. But I'm a Cheerleader one of Leeza's favorite movies of

Where are you? Where do you live?

I live out in Southampton, New York, way out Long Island, but I am my brother's right now where it's nice and quiet without dogs and children, and he's in Long Beach. So I'm a beachee type of girl.

I love it well before SVU if you don't mind, Ah, But I'm a Cheerleader was one of the biggest movies of my life. I would rent it all the time. It took over my life. And yeah, how I don't even have a question. I'm just so thrilled to talk to you. Did you keep any of your outfits?

No, but I heard that they made a fortune. We're not a fortune. Nobody made a fortunal of anything, but I heard the pink suit went for a pretty petty because you know, it's funny because we just did a zoom thing. It's a bunch of months ago now, because I think it was like the twentieth anniversary. So I got to like, you know, talk to Clea Deval and Natasha and Jamie and you know, a whole bunch of people. So it was kind of really cool to reconnect.

Well, yeah, Melanie Lynsky, who is this quiet character? And that is now, like did you watch I don't know if you watched Yellow Jackets.

It's so cool to see all of them.

Bigger than life. And it's funny because I just worked with Clia. She's producing, writing and doing. It's a cartoon Housebroken, So I did just a couple of episodes and that was fun amazing. Yeah, these girls turned in bigger than life.

Right, Well, both Natasha and Cleia are SVU alum as well.

Yes, they've had some episodes.

Yes, yeah, their episodes were really good.

I and one of the rare I guess RuPaul is like not in Drag Too, that movie, that's the movie I got introduced to RuPaul for it too. I didn't know about him before that. But do you get stopped a lot on the streets.

No, But then again I don't. I gave up walking the streets a long time ago.

Okay, amazing.

Okay, well, so Lisa is the but I'm a cheerleader fan and I'm the Soap Dish fan.

Like truly saw it in the theater.

I have to tell you it was two of my favorites. So, I mean, like, were my favorite two of my favorite movies that I did.

I love that movie so much.

I mean, huge iconic casts, like just so funny. Your character is like so I remember being like, who is this woman? This character is amazing? Were like so funny and mean and like a bitch.

It was so good, and I just like, I'm like, with all these reboots and everything being reimagined, where is soap Dish two point zero? And would you do it?

You know? Somebody just told me, actually I read about it somewhere that they were going to do a TV show based on Soap Dish and that I think Whoopie Goldberg had signed on. I read about it somewhere, but they haven't come to me on and I'm way too old to play Milton or Montana now. But you know it's funny because they had brought it up years ago. When the movie came out. One of the producers on the show, would I consider doing a TV like a spin off? And I was like, you know, call me,

Yeah. Yeah, well you really have a gift. And even with this character and sv you intoxicated where you play these quote unquote like bad evil people but so funny, Like they're all so comedic and evil at the same time. It's so rare and skillful.

I don't know.

It's very cool to watch, all right, not like them, but I'm not laughing and loving it.

And then you listen, anytime somebody makes you laugh, you have to be grateful.

Right, Yeah, they begged you to be on it. You weren't auditioning for SVU. I'm assuming no.

I did an audition. I love Lawn Order, I love everything about it, so my mission was to make sure I did each one. So I think the first time I did it, I think I just see the regular law and order is that I don't even note. That's what you'd call it.

They call it the Mothership. A lot of other we call it original recipes something, and then I did.

A couple of SVUS. Then I came back on SVU you, but I did the same character twice. So I would love to go back on it because it's just one of my favorite shows to work on. To work on that set, you are just at a level of, oh my god, professionalism but comfortable and relaxed. You go in. You got to make sure you know your stuff. The pace is quick and hard. There is not one person I did not like on any of the episodes, from the cameraman to the makeup, to the hair, to the actors.

Yeah, that's okay. You still did the Trifactor.

I did the trifacta exactly. I didn't hit the super factor, but that's okay, that's okay. But yeah, insosicated, that was a good one. That was a very good one actually, and that was way back in the day.

I think it's from two thousand and five.

And you you know, it's like your character is a little bit unhinged and we find out later an alcoholic. But I'm sort of on your side at the beginning when I find that a twenty one year old is hooking up with a fifteen year old, Ya, I'm a little having twenty one.

Year old yeah, and a twenty year old. Yeah, I'd become unhinged too, did you?

And Danielle Panabaker, you got to tell me that you guys had a nice relationship off camera, because it was so hard to watch you guys fight on camera that I have to believe you loved each other off camera.

Absolutely, just an absolute gem. Yes, and a good little actress too.

No.

I enjoyed doing that episode. That was fun. That was a lot of fun.

Do you have any like specific memories of that. I know it was so long ago at this point. If you don't, it's no problem.

But just I remember like doing the Law and Orders and either I was always killing somebody or getting killed. And I think my kid's father used to worry. He goes, why does it look so easy that you just kill people? And I was kind of like, we practice makes perfect, so be careful. But on that particular one I get killed, correct, Yes, Yes, And of course The highlight was when I have to

I loved your epic scene where you're yelling in the precinct and you get to go down the stairs and it seems like everyone's watching you.

How was that everyone was, weren't they?

Yeah?

Funny I forgot all about that scene until I knew I was going to do this, and I was like, what episode? And then they tell me and talx kit it and so somebody sent me like, you know, some things on it, and I was like, oh, yeah, I remember that day. It was so cool and down floor. Oh I love he He was in that scene too where I just come out and I'm just blasted drunk, you know. But and Chris Coloney, it just it was just fun. It was fun. They let you go for it.

Well the audience. We don't learn that you're in your character is an alcoholic til later in the episode.

That's what was tricky about that. Yeah, like too drunk, just being a bitch kind of you know, So like you really I don't think you knew even then that she was loaded all the time, but yeah, so you know, you to Yeah, I tread I tread it lightly and made some choices hopefully they were right ones.

No, for sure, No they were.

I read somewhere and like this also could be nonsense on the internet, but I read that you like, in some roles you try to like lose your New York accent, or you spent time trying to lose your New York accent when you first started acting. But for Law and Order, do you like ever do you like lay it on thicker? Since it's like such a New York show.

I definitely don't go trying to hide it. I mean I've done. Everybody just looks at me as a true New Yorker, which I am. I'm capable of dealing Southering and all that kind of stuff, but I can't get rid of the deep boys. So New York is just very natural. And you know, I'm born in the Bronx and this is really what I sound like. Yeah, you know, it's walk talk coffee, or I can say walk talk and coffee, you know, just as easy. But I'd like to have a paycheck behind it.

Yeah.

Wait, were you playing Southern when you were in Patty No Patty Cakes is New Jersey, right, Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that was another fun one that Yeah, we love Bridget we know Bridget from New York.

How could you not know? Everybody knows Bridget?

You know.

I went to coun to the Camp Film Festival with her. This is an amazing woman, an amazing, amazing woman who's like a trained opera singer. I basically stalked her on patty cakes on a day I didn't have to go to work. They were shooting up in my hometown in Yonkers, right, and I had to go up to sign papers or something, but I went. I said, oh, I'll just come to you just so I could hear her sing. She is so brilliant and so frigging funny, yet she's so shy

Oh I love that.

Yeah, I mean, when am I going to play an eighty year old chain smoking grandmother in a wheelchair raps? I think I actually got a residual check and I was like, from what is it from? And it was from rapping from the song. Oh yeah, you're getting iTunes money. You're getting that Spotify money. I think three dollars and sixty eight cents. I turned yeah, but I forgot I even did it.

I was like, what is that?

Oh my gosh, Yeah it was good.

Love that. Bridget Her like quote as dreams don't have deadlines, and I think about that a lot.

Oh that's nice, and hear that one.

Yeah, she says that often, and so sometimes I think about that.

I like it.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you're right, dreams don't have deadlines. No, I mean I'm up there now and I'm certainly not done.

Yeah, what are your Are there specific characters or types of parts you're still waiting to do that you'd love to?

Oh?

Yeah, I mean there's ones, of course that I want to, but I'll never I'll never get them unless I start creating my own stuff, you know. But yeah, I'm I'm not done, not yet.

Not.

Yeah. I mean, I'm old. My kids are young. They remind me every day, Oh my god, mom, you're so old. I was like, oh my god, but yes, I'm still paying for you. But you know, maybe because I didn't have children till I was forty, and then I had three in a year. I had twins and little kath and Joe and then Bella and I had all three and they, you know, now they're twenty and twenty one.

So yeah, I'm sort of in the same boat. I had my kids kind of late as well, so they're young now.

But how old are your kids?

Ten months and three on for Saturday?

Wow?

But I'm happy that I.

Like did a lot before I had kids, Yeah, because now now.

We just live for them and do nothing with yourselves whatsoever.

Yeah.

I got to travel, I got to party and have fun, and now i'm and then I was ready.

To Oh yeah, No, I've lived a nice life and now I kind of share things with them. But you know, good for you. I guess. I don't know if I planned on waiting.

I don't know.

Life happens for a reason. It's kind of like dreams don't have deadlines. I always, you know, wanted to have children, and I guess it happens when it was supposed to. I wasn't planned, that's for sure, so I just kept them coming. But you know, you can't plan twins. No I'm not, but no twins, and I certainly didn't plan. I did not plan another one within the same year. But anyway, these things happened. You know, everybody used to say, well, who'd you go to? And I didn't know what it meant.

I guess yeah, I don't know. Yeah, because they called they.

Start referring to you as geriatric pregnancy from thirty five and up, Like.

It's crazy, it's wild, but you know it's it's a really it's a big joy for me. It's you know, that's my biggest accomplishment for me. Yeah, you'll feel that way soon, I promise.

No, I'm on my way.

I mean, my ten month old is on a full hunger strike right now, where he's refusing all foods, So I'm kind of like that.

Can't do you know, Helen Shaver, I do extras direct. We interviewed her and she was saying how her son now works on sets and that like the most proud she's ever been in her life is going and watching that everyone on set saw him the way she saw him, and she it was just like a beauty. She just talked about it so beautifully and it touched me that that was like such a moment to see people see her son in the way that she loved him.

To see like, my kids really comfortable on set and it's really nice. But to see what my son has accomplished is I know, mind blowing. I hope he hires me one day. It's kind of like I'm not even on his lists or anything. You know, It's like he definitely does not need me in any aspect of his career. And I'm kind of like chomping at the bed that perhaps one day he'll hire me. And to see my daughter her writing skills for a person of that age,

Now can I ask you a quick question about when you came back onto SVU. You were now you're a cop, You're Tony Howard. First you're a lieutenant and then you're a captain. So you're moving on up in the Brooklyn moving on Brooklyn.

Side of the NYPD, And like, so your son gets killed in this episode poison Motive and you have to like you and Iced Tea got like a really nice moment together where you were like crying on a shoulder.

So yeah, what's your do you love?

Ice?

Like, what's they do? There isn't one person that I don't like, and I mean there's just silly stories. Yeah, that was great, And he's just a sweetheart. He's like a big teddy.

Bear, you know.

But in the you know, it's like the camera guys, you just know everybody. Yeah, because we've all been around for so long, you know, But I think SVU was the most fun. What was the other one? What did you guys call the original?

Well?

The Mothership is when people the mother ship?

The mothership is a great one. Also SVU is they just have it down to a science. They have it down to a science. And yeah, now I'm a captain. I don't know if I can come back now unless I play that part. I really would love to come back though.

I mean, they you know, it's been seven or eight years. They bring people back all the time for stuff, so who knows.

Let's get you back now.

That was my go to. I would do one a year, you know. Yeah, but you know, hopefully they'll have me back because I do it. I enjoy doing it, Yeah, for sure?

Really do Now do you prefer a Maloney or an Amorrow? Yeah, Christopher Maloney or Danny Pino In terms of sexiness.

That's a tough one. Now, that's a tough one. I've worked with Danny twice now.

Yeah.

And I love Elizabeth also, who's on it. She's just wonderful. We laughed so hard one day, I was we were like, what does this mean? She goes, Oh, I have no idea. It's all smoke and mirrors, Kathy, I don't even know what it was, something really simple that we both should have known, and we didn't have a clue because it's all smoke and mirrors. The wardrobe lady, if your shirt doesn't fit a couple of times, I was pregnant when I did the chat, So we'll just cut it off

I'd be like, whoa, you can't do that. It's three thousand dollars.

It's law and order.

They have plenty of money.

Oh my gosh.

But yeah, but I don't prefer either to or It's just I know Danny more than I know Chris.

Will you tell us this like story of how you got like discovered and cast in Raging Bull and all that, because.

It's like, oh, my host Cinderella. Well, I've heard I don't want to hear it from the Wikipedia. I'd love to hear it from you.

All right, I'll make it quit. Let's say I was seventeen I wanted to be an actress. When I was sixteen, I applied for a grant to go to acting school. It was nineteen seventy six, seventy five whatever. They didn't consider acting a profession then, so I drank my house into work am I left to say that, yeah, I can say whatever I want. So I went to work and I would work and then I would go and get you know, backstage drama, logue, all those things go on,

So I was very happy.

Anyway that they would show you pictures, they would have talent contests and singing contests and dance contests and blah blah, and my picture used to go up on the screen. They're like, Kathy, you know you really look a lot like VICKI lamatta, why don't you send your picture in? So I did. Now, it's not like I had a headshot or anything like that. It was a little three by five snapshot. And I lied and I said I was union. I didn't even know what a union was.

To do it.

Okay, So I sent it in and fis Gorman, who I love, who passed away. She was like, Kat, come down, I want to see you. So I went down and I met with her and she gave me what a cold side scenes from the script, which I don't even know if I ever got a script, but anyway, I would read them and she's like, hold on, I want you to meet some friends of mine. And I walked

So.

Now you have to remember, I'm born in the sixties and I'm playing somebody in the forties and stuff. And they had like these weird bathing suits and people had eyebrows and red lips back then. This is now the seventies. We all looked like Parah Foster or tried to so I did. I remember the first day. It was supposed to be like a two day screen test, and I was very uncomfortable with that time period because I knew nothing about it. I really had no formal training. My

I love that.

Yeah. And it was so funny because she's the one that told me that they called her and told her don't bother coming in. We found our girl. But while I would wait downstairs for my turn to go back up and do rehearsals and stuff, I would see all these huge movie stars and icons coming out of the building from auditioning. I mean, like some really big people, you know. So I do the screen test and Scorsese looked at me and goes, are you ready? I think

Begin with, and he went even like whiter.

He was like, what's wrong. I said, well, I'm waiting for all these people to leave. He said, Kathy, they're not leaving. I said, well, why didn't you just tell me that. I was like, all right, now I'm ready. I thought you just did it like in a room with the two people. I didn't know that you had every grip and lighting guy and ken, you know, all these people all around. I still to this day have a hard time with camera left. I don't know why they just don't say, take a step to your right, Cathy.

But O, could I tell you that's an amazing my silver story. And then you got nominated for an Oscar for your first role ever? I did, Yeah, I mean, was your mind just like blown?

Don't I don't even know?

I didn't understand what anything. You don't you remember now. I met them in October of seventy eight. I didn't get to part until like February or March. So I worked with them for like five to six months. Then we went to la and we shot from April until Christmas.

Wow.

Then it took a whole another year for the movie to come out, right, didn't come out til the following Christmas. Then the nominations came out, and you know you're supposed to like really stay put and do like a campaign. Well I got nervous and I just left and went to Europe. So you know, I just didn't really do things completely right. So shame on me.

No, I mean you were probably nineteen twenty.

Who knows how I was the right thing about seventeen and eighteen, and I guess at the Oscars I got Yeah, while I did the movie, I was twenty at the Oscars or twenty one. Yeah.

It just went on forever, you know, it went on forever. But you know, the greatest experience of a lifetime. And I will be indebted to all of them the rest of my life and completely grateful to them.

Kathy Maury Artie, I can't.

Like if you told me in fifth grade that I was gonna meet Montana Morehead from fucking soap Dish, I would have like fainted on the spot.

She was so cool.

No, she's incredible.

I also love people that are like about the work and pick interesting characters and just embody them and like we said, like such serious moments but so much comedy layered underneath it and just like a badass. I love the way she talked about her kids, her life.

Yeah.

Also just such a cool story of somebody Like honestly, you're watching stuff and you're like, I just found out Chris Pine is like also related to some famous Like you just don't have any idea how many people in this business are related to famous people. Like the nepotism is everywhere, And this is just a girl who was like, yeah, I want to do this. I'm just gonna like move

Yeah, absolutely so I love that.

I will say for what I've learned from this episode.

And like abusing you, you know, yeah, or just anything that brings shame to you. Because I feel like people whose parents are hoarders or.

You know, adult babies, like they want to hide all.

Sure.

I guess it's just like this girl was like, I'm a teenager, I'm like a fully formed person, and I can't like speak to my mom because like every time I try to talk to her she's drinking, she's an unreliable narrator, she's revising history. You know, it's just like you'd feel like you were going insane. It's like their entire personality is like gaslighting.

You you know. Yeah. I also, I don't know if it happens often, but I do like the idea of hiding bottles of liquor in like the toilet tank. Always a toilet tank opening in the bottle life hang in there.

In a light fixture that's hanging, like in the hamper, like wow, so many, so many creative places.

It gave me a good treasure hunt like map of like Okay, this is what I'm going to search for and look for it all. Yeah, but great acting teens murder. Don't murder your parents, but you could get away with it, so that's kind of fun.

Yeah, if you have if you have severe periods, you might have PMDD or whatever PMD I forgot what it's called, but go get that checked out. I don't want you to murder anyone, even though that's not what happened in this episode.

And oh yeah the real case.

Yeah, don't murder your parents and go on like a joy ride vacation with your boyfriend. They're gonna find you. And I just was reminded of how much I love Glenn Hedley. Please watch Dirty Rotten Scoundrels if you've never seen it. It's like one of my favorite movies of all time.

It's so good. No Scvu is just truly, I don't know, a little pot of talent, Like it really is incredible to be watching all of these actors.

It really is.

I mean, I don't think there's another television show that you can say gets as many people of the caliber that they get to just pop in all the time, right, Like there's nobody in the Guest Star Game like this show.

Right. No, and not only just like incredible actors or very famous actors. We're talking theater, we're talking music business, we're talking the people that are coming to direct like we're really talking about just from all different walks of entertainment as well, athletes, I mean presidential government.

People, yeah, vice presidents like you know, Serena Williams.

It's it's it's mind boggling how many different avenues of talent are also on this show.

And we're lucky to get to talk.

To these people.

I mean, we also learned that SVU is like predicting cases. I mean, like the Sick episode came out years before Gypsy Rose. This episode came out months before the Barber Moola X case. Like, it's just kind of wild when these like sort of specific crimes happen, not just like a and a murder, you know what I mean, like kind of more specific crimes happen, like after the show has done an episode about it.

It's wild. So I guess this was just her love and ode to SVU, and we've learned where to hide our liquor and not to be, you know, to be a better parent. I don't know.

Yeah, you gotta buy your you gotta buy your kid a wintercote in New York.

I'm sorry, you gotta. You just gotta do it. Also, satutory rape, I don't know tough. I don't like twenty one and fifteen. I don't either, But I don't like trying to get away from your wild mom. I mean, Benson related like something.

Even Benson was like even Benson was like I was sixteen, he was twenty. It was like a little bit closer or something when Benson told her story. But yeah, I mean, we'll see when Rosie's a teenager and she's like, here's my forty year old boyfriend.

But no, it was God. I'm just saying, I just know what's going to happen to me now, and she is truly going to be dating women, and I have no doubt about it too.

No, she literally all week has been telling me about how she's dating. She's gonna marry her best friend Isabelle, and I'm like, very possible. But also, my sister told me that a friend of hers said this, and that a couple of people have said this to me as well, that I'm not giving Oscar enough exposure on this podcast. Guys, he's a baby. He doesn't do anything funny, he doesn't say anything funny. He doesn't have a fun relationship with Lisa.

I'm like, what should I say?

Oh, Oscar spit food all over me today, lol, Like it's it's not in all.

It's also not just the podcast. He's the second kid. No one cares. Sorry, sorry, Oscar cut that. Oscar can never hear me laughing at that, just kidding, keep it in all right. Isn't that the stereotype where the first kid all the rules and then the more and more kids by the youngest kid, it's like, yeah, give us shit, you.

Know, yeah, who cares?

Give them?

Honey?

Yeah, my little brothers could do whatever they wanted after we pave the way for them. But speaking of children, let's get to our what would Sister Peg Do segment this week. What would Sister Peg Do is our weekly segment where we give you guys a charity, an organization, a book, a link to an article, something that's going to help flesh out a little bit more of what we touched on in today's episode. And today we wanted to highlight an organization called child Help. They are dedicated

Thank you for sharing that, Kara, And next week I hope you join us for a very highly requested episode. We are fulfilling all of your demands. We're doing forty one Witnesses. That's season seventeen, episode thirteen. Please watch along on Hulu. Peacock your VPN sticks and whatever illegal ways you are trying to get it, because we did meet some people from Canada that were like, stop fucking saying it, we can't find it, and I'm.

Like somebody Also, somebody messaged us and said that the guys on SmartLess call Peacock the cock, and they were like, we feel like that's an opportunity for you guys. So you guys can check out SVU on the cock I do love that.

Yeah Bye, guys, bitches, That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

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