Internal Affairs w/ Marc Menchaca

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories done Dune. Welcome to another episode of That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

My name is Lisa Traeger and.

My name is Kara Klank, and we're so excited to bring you a podcast where we talk about Law and Order SVU episodes, the true crime they're based on, and we interview an actor from the show. Today's a good one. But before we get into it, we like to chat. We like to catch up Lisa, what's happening.

I did tease some big news. I guess I'd have to let everyone know that. Like Kara, during helping me move from LA to New York, realized that I didn't have a trash can and it horrified her to her bones, chilling for her. Sh It just hit her like it was like the end of the movie Memento where it all made sense. I need you to know I got a tall silver trash can with a pedal.

Oh hell yeah, simple human.

No, it's some one of the big brands. Maybe Glad like I think it might be like a Glad one or something. But I did spend an extra twenty five dollars to get it all silver.

I did.

I did want the silver one. But I love having a trash can with a pedal. It's like it is fun to throw things in there.

Yeah, just make it a little game.

You know, all these water bottles with one sip left, they don't need to sit here, they can go right in that beautiful trash can.

Well, no, I do the recycling in another loose bag obviously, but that's okay.

You know that's okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's pedal throw it in pedal. Well, in New York, I don't actually believe it, but here people are really separating the recycling and trash.

Oh.

I got a ticket one time in New York for not having my recycling in a clear bag.

Yeah. It's really frustrating because I have a lot of white bags.

But whatever.

But also it's like I've watched you guys just throw the recycling in with the trash. So I don't know why I'm getting a ticket for like sixty five dollars right now.

But whatever. Well, because the world is corrupt, because it's yes.

Yes, Wait can we talk about the willy Wonka experience in Scotland?

Have you heard about this?

Have not at all? And I'm really on the internet, so okay, wait, hold on sending you a link. In Scotland there was some kind of Willy Wonka experience but they let AI like do the entire thing like and so the words are crazy. Everything it says willy Wonka Immersive Event leaves kids in tears. Quote it looks like a meth lab. Like there are videos all over Twitter about it. Kids are terrified, Like the poster for it has like all this gibber jabber on it that doesn't

I'm on the New York Times right now and it is all the headlines are really funny and like, yeah, so the subheading is families traveled to Glasgow. I've been there for an event that whatever. They got a couple of jelly beans, a few jelly beans in a world of disappointment, Like what people called the cops.

Like when you look at the side by side, it's like it looks like this gorgeous ai other world with like beautiful lollipops, like, and then you go in and it's just a fucking shitty party city rainbow that you're walking underneath.

I just can't get enough of it. It's too funny. But also it looks janky.

Yeah, so I just don't know how it's janky and terrified. No, it's terrible, Like are the kids crying because it's so bad. I'm just not seeing what the kids are seeing.

Like, wait, look at the tway I just sent you. Okay, this is the reason why some kids are crying. It's just like a freaky man that looks like a member of Kiss coming out from behind a mirror, jerking his body like the girl from the Ring. I mean, it's like, why did you think this was on par with like oopa loopahs, Like it's just really funny.

It's just the news story that we need in these trying times.

Yes, yes, we need a little pick me up. And it is the Willy Wonka Experience.

Oh I thought Ai designed it, but Ai created the poster and that it was.

About the ads.

So people think they're coming into this like magical Lisa Frank fucking amazing, colorful world, and it's this warehouse with like ten decorations in This is so bad. Oh, if you haven't heard the story, please google and enjoy yourself.

It's really bad. Okay, But I was confused.

I thought AI was like setting it up, like there were AI event planners or something. But now I understand that it was like the posters made it look so cool all the marketing. Either way, it's hysterical how bad it is. But yeah, the immersive photo of the AI looks good At first.

When Jared was telling me the story, he goes, it's in Vegas, and then I looked it up. I go, it's in Glasgow, Vegas. You cannot get away with that shit. I feel like Vegas. I don't think you can get away with like poor production quality in Vegas people.

The word spreads too fast. But this isn't poor production quality.

This looks like a sketch from the office, like in a warehouse. Like yeah, if you guys want to know, we're looking at a big conference center looking thing glass windows and then there's just a glitterally nice arch rainbow with clouds, and then there's desks, screens, loose doors, pipes, a hanging poster, its post pipes, post pipes and one and gum drop and caution tape on the crowd in between the clouds.

It's really something else. I don't know.

God bless the Scottish. That's fun. That's fun. Shout out to uh Glasgow. It really tickled us there. Yeah, it feels good to laugh.

Listen. Did I see friendly but WIT's at a party I was at. I did.

I don't know what else to say, Guys, I don't know what else to say.

Oh my god, yeah Bury the lead.

Uh. I was invited as a plus one with a friend to the I don't know the name. It's like the American History Museum of Natural History. Who knows the Museum of Natural History? Yeah, because the real one is Smith's like in DC. Kept popping at whatever. I don't care. It's a museum I'm not interested in. Yeah, I'd rather be at a zoo, an aquarium or an art museum.

But it was impressive. I did like the stuff. It was well.

I remember taking a kid. I baby sat there and I liked the squid in the whale and I like. There was a butterfly exhibit that we liked. Was cool that you could go in and just butterflies everywhere.

Well, we entered through the back for the events, so we weren't really like running around, but we obviously, like you know, we saw some ancient stuff and some displays of animals whatever. But it was a Kate Winslet show. I did get a peak of her. I did have a little puff thing with a caviar. But a lot of podcast guests, so I did see Josh Pisce, but he was talking to fig from Oranges, the New Black Sid didn't approach him, and then I lost him.

I should have just went in there. I should have went Josh.

He did my podcast for the love of God, scoop a memory of me out of your brain. But I didn't do it. But there was an oxygen bar. I saw a bunch of character actors.

Wait, what happens at the oxygen bar?

You just put a little mask on, breathe some oxygen, and you feel all like better.

I don't know about better, but yeah, they give you temporary like your own disposable nose holes, like if you were in a hospital. So that's kind of nose plugs. Oh but he did not holes, you know what I mean. Yeah, the thing that goes right under yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Like that feels weird. And then there's like five options of like bubbling oxygen.

Who knows one is.

They're named after the characters, so it's like Yelena eucalyptus, And there was a chill one and so I breathed a little of the stress, depression, anxiety, you know, But.

Okay, okay, feel any immediate effects.

No, no, we just did it for the Graham. You know.

I wasn't I didn't have high expectations. I was out there chasing for a lamb chop. That's what I was doing at this event. And I was trying to find a character actor and make eye contact and that's all I was doing, and chasing friendly But what's around till she was walked out.

I'm excited. I was so obsessed with Mayor of Easttown that I'm excited to see what this is.

It is weird, but she is. I'm gonna keep watching. Like the first episode ended that they screened and I was like, I'm watching.

I need more. I'd like more. Yeah, Oh, we were in.

The bathroom withstusis men obviously, and she's also on Watch What Happens Live, you know, like last week, so I'm wondering what she's promoting.

I'm interested.

How do we feel about this lawsuit that Leah McSweeney is bringing against Bravo.

It's also about Andy.

If these dumb bitches get in the way of my Bravo viewing and watch What Happens Live, I mean, I are ready to like Leah, you're a below bottom level housewife.

I don't know.

It's just like you all want to suck a little Andy's dick. You all want to be his number one girl. I'm sure he was out doing coke and partying with all of you as you kiss his ass for screen time.

And now it's an issue.

And I know we do a podcast where we do listen to women and we do take claim seriously, but I'm not right now, and I don't know what to tell you. I'm bothered. I'm bothered.

I'm annoyed.

You didn't do a good job. You're out of there, like, leave us alone.

She's mad, Yeah, she's big mad. Yeah yeah.

Who else is suing? Someone else is suing? There's like two lawsuits happening.

Well, there's the Caroline Manzoe, but that's specific about like Brandy Brandy.

Yeah, Brandy and Leah.

Why don't we give them a crappy lake but send them to Antarctica and see if they survive. That's what I think. Let's see if they can make it on that boat.

Brandy and Leah in crappy person lake and they get to go down to Antarctica.

That's a great idea. Let's pitch it.

Dum, I'm not gonna say it. I've gotten really loosey goosey with charisma, uniqueness, nerve, and talent. Yes, you know, it's really fun since my purse is drag Race themed, like people will go love your bag and then we'll get I get to talk to people about drag Race. It's really exciting. Yeah, Well, what else is exciting is I went to a store I haven't went into yet on my block filled with trolls, filled with movie like Death Becomes Her earrings. They have the same Dennis Rodman

I mean, I think that we need to make a troll budget. You know, we need to decide how many trolls were allowed to have for a month and stick to it.

I only bought one little one, but I was like, oh, you know, I actually just bought this grandma and grandpatrol that were very ancient and special, and she knew exactly what I was talking about, like she's a troll expert as well.

Well.

The good thing is the picture that you sent me. The trolls all looked pretty small. The grandma and grandpa are quite large. Yeah, yeah, those are Those are some hefty trolls. So I'm glad that you can introduce some more small babies into the family.

Yeah.

Absolutely, any grandkids, right these Grandma hung Gramatrol Lady Greg Absolutely absolutely. Okay, what do you think should we get started?

We should start it at This is a really long one. So all the all the people that are listening that are commuting. You're gonna have a few days worth of podcasts, so you're welcome.

It's nice and hefty.

Also check That's Messed Up Live dot com and go to Lisa's website link for all of Lisa's like upcoming dates.

She has so many dates where you can see her do stand up.

Yes, Philadelphia this month, Chicago this month, Nashville this month, and I'm sure another thing I'm not. I'm forgetting but into April and May, like, let's get this party started, guys. Yeah, go support the dolls and thanks to everyone who came to Boston.

We did. I did the Crystal Ballroom.

And it truly was a dream, a dream beyond a dream.

It felt really nice. I'm so happy.

And when you're on That's Messed Up live dot com, you can also go to our merch. We've got only a few of those college sweatshirts left if you've been eyeing one of those. We also have some of our tour specific merch that we put up there that are like less expensive items you can kind of throw in. And we also wanted to give a quick shout out to While Casey is on leave, we've had another very talented person assembling all of our episodes and making us

That's just me.

And especially because she either already has or she later has a dream where they're making out, and it's just it weirds me out that mister Noodle is giving her jewelry. So I get wanting this moment for the show. And maybe they could have just had Finn give it to her, but whatever, Live tears up when she sees it and the guy and she's like thank you, and the guy it's like you're welcome. And then it's like it is s fu. So my mind is already like set to creepy.

So that's pretty fun. Anyway, Cassidy and this.

Cop are shooting the shit talking about their commutes to the Bronx.

I wonder if they have a role play as brother and sister and have inces grassex.

He pretends to have one hand. Yeah, I don't know.

Oh did Jamie have one hand? He's the one that got it chopped. He gets his hand chopped off.

Honestly, I will I should revisit. I feel all this shows I watched with my ex back in the day, like over a decade ago that we didn't finish. I just never finished. Yeah, the Wire and Game of Thrones. I was like, all right, I guess I'm over it.

I did love Game of Thrones the whole time, but I feel like the first three seasons are the best ones, so you've seen the good stuff.

I mean, like it's still good.

I think Bingjing is gonna be better for me. It's just too many characters in too many places, spread apart over too many years. That like, yeah, it's just not for my stoner brain. But also I don't even need to see it. I'm just obsessed with all the actors. Yeah, I'm on board, you know, I'm I love all the girls.

But I would be I would love your take on the ending. Well, I read about it.

I read about it, Tidefell level controversy. What finale isn't Sopranos Breaking Back? They all are controversial.

I know everybody hates well Dexter, notoriously one of the worst Lost Dexter.

I guess people just love six Feet Unders. That's like known as the best. I feel like was Fresh Prince. But I guess that's like sitcom is different too than I think.

Sitcom's always had kind of sweet endings. I remember the Growing Pains one was really cute and like, but but dramatic shows, well, what was that?

What was the season finale of Sex and the City.

It's them all at the coffee like bring back our girl. It's big bringing her back from Paris, and they're all like together at the coffee shop laughing.

I feel right, or maybe it's her typing or something.

Yeah, I don't know.

I can't remember. I guess I don't know the final thing.

But besides six feet under what, there's another one that I feel like people were into.

That was drama I can't think of.

Well, if you tell us, tell us what you think a write us on Instagram and.

Tell us we're good dramatic finales. Yeah, but.

This guy is shooting the shit with Cassidy. They're talking about their long commutes to the Bronx and the other CoP's name is Groves, and he's like, yeah, that's how they punish you. That's when you find out n why

So he got busted for that by Tucker.

Suddenly, in the middle of this conversation about like, oh man, I had to take the train all the way from rockaway, Groves gets all serious. He hands Cassidy a little envelope and it's got a safety deposit box key in it, and he doesn't tell them where the box is, but he goes anything happens to me, A friend of mine will tell you where the box is. You take what's in there to the New York Times. And Cassidy's like, dude,

They rush this guy, Groves. He reaches for his weapon. They beat him to it. He's struggling. They tase his ass.

He's on the floor trembling the taser while Cassidy looks on and just like pockets the deposit key. It's like he just sensed it was coming. It's not like we heard anything. We didn't hear like a banging or like a anyone know where Groves is or anything like that.

He just sensed it and suddenly shit went nuts.

So now we cut to Cassidy unpacking boxes with Benson at a new apartment where they just moved in together. Cassidy is taking the skull of a long horn out of a box and it's obviously a Cassidy box. I'm really annoyed that she has to find a place for that in her house.

He's such a bro.

To bring a bone thing to her house. Get the fuck out of here.

I mean, you're in New York City.

Like, we're not doing skeletons on the walls of animal Like, it's just anyway. He's like, this place seemed and live is like bigger when it was empty. We'll figure it out. And then, uh, she's being very optimistic. She seems happy as a little clam to be unpacking, getting her domestic bliss on and Benson noticed it that Cassidy's mind starts

You know, excessive.

Cassidy's like, yeah, after the Twelfth got rid of him, he didn't take the hint and he went to Internal Affairs and that's the land of Ed Tucker, and Cassidy is torn because he's like, well, maybe he is crazy, but maybe I should go to IA and tell them what I saw and then live in kind of a real turn goes You're gonna go to IA, like they took your shield, and he's like, but what if Groves

And then he keeps it up nice.

I was just like, you got to keep all the black ones together, all the great You can't be like rifling through, you know, like so we do it by color. Rollin's funnily is like, you know, you can just throw them away a few at a time and the guy's

She's like, the.

Cabby dropped the charges. It was my fault. I was drunk. I'm going to meetings now. And they're like, well, we just want to know what happened to you that night, and she goes, you can tell them I said nothing happened, and then she's like, I gotta go.

I'm for work.

You know, nobody ever has time to talk to the cops in New York. And she's like a bat out of hell, and Benson is like, Okay, something definitely happened the way that she worded it, saying tell them I said nothing happened. So they think maybe the cops wanted to keep stats down told her to drop the whole thing or she'd be charged with assault. But if she was raped, then her rapist is out there. Let's go

One of my favorite lines from the show is in that episode where that, like Carrie there a meal.

She's talking about it, and.

Charlotte goes, I mean, it could be Bell's palsy, and Carrie has to go, it's not Bell's paulsy.

You definitely told me that before that.

You love that line because you know, I had a friend in college who woke up one day with Bell's palsy and just half her face was just like drooping. It went away after a few weeks, but it was crazy, like when she would smile, it would be like this.

No. I actually for some reason, I don't I can't pinpoint any actual information, but I feel it came into my brain recently of someone like, Yeah, you just have to get used to your face being droopy, like your life changes, like people look at you different. And then it goes back, like, yeah, you suddenly live a life as a droopy like people will look at you different. It's wild to experience that kind of shift in perspective. You know, it doesn't happen often. Yeah, and then it

Yeah, I don't know enough about it. It might not always go away.

Charlotte's just annoying. It's like, why are you giving this bitch the benefit of the doubt. Your friend is sitting right there. Yeah, I just like, why are you defending Nina Cats. You don't even fucking know her? If that is an issue for me, Oh, are you sure she wasn't having a bad day. No, I just told you she was a bitch and you better have my side. I don't care if that's toxic.

That show is like Seinfeld.

It does such a good job if somebody can be in one episode and not even in that much of it. And when I see this actress, Nadia de Johnny, I go, Nina Cats, that's a good Cats. Like everywhere I see her, it's like you're like, oh, that's man hands, you know, It's like you just know they do such a good job.

Yeah, there's the guy with the funky taste thing spunk. Yeah me, Bob Bobby Kenavalli's so bad, one of the greatest actors, and just be like, oh my god, we're the.

Funky tasting spunk.

Like nothing about all the stage work he's done, like so much.

So.

Quinn is Nina Katz and the other cop West is played by David Conrad, who I thought I recognized him, but when I look up his Instagram it's like he has a small part in wedding crashers, but he was a regular on The Ghost Whisperer, and to me, he just has like generic handsome man vibes.

He kind of looks a little bit like all of her Hudson.

He looks like a bunch of different, like sort of hot cop type guys that could be in procedurals and stuff. And he remembers Tanya. When they see her face. At first, they're like, oh my god, we pick up ten drunk girls all the time. But then they see Tanya has picture and they're like, oh, she was a mess. She was drunk, she was covered in vomit. They didn't bring her in because with the binge drinker, they kind of

How are you trying to lie to fucking Benson right now? Yeah?

Like, stop, You've never been that good of a cop compared to Benson.

You're not going to get anything past her. Yeah.

So she tells him about Tucker's little visit to the squad and it turns out Groves was onto something, and then she just point blank goes, did you go to Tucker?

And he goes, no, Tucker came to me tonight. That's why I'm late.

Tucker wants Cassidy to go undercover at the twelfth, but Cassidy said, fuck no, I don't trust them. You don't trust them, and then lives like, oh about that. It looks like two cops from the twelfth may have coerced this victim into dropping a sexual assault complaint. So I am working that case and Cassidy's like, what the fuck You're allowed to work with iab but I'm not. And then Benson gets a text in the middle of this little tiff and she's got a bounce. Rollin's found something

Finn's like, hold up, this isn't for us. This is ia.

They're the ones that go after cops lives Like they're not cops, they're rapists. So now they're playing these nine to one one calls and they're definitely Quinn, the female officer's voice like you can just hear it's her voice. And they're laying out all their findings for Tucker and he's like, yeah, all these tapes prove are misconduct, Like that's this isn't enough, and they're like, he goes, it was eight months ago. There's no rape kit. She was drunk.

What's a mick?

Nick is a slur of Irish people, but I think Tucker is also Irish Catholics, so maybe he's allowed to say that. But I looked it up and mick is like an abbreviation for Michael, and since Michael is such a popular Irish name. It's like a Mick is a Irish person, but it's derogatory, you know, so even for a Mick, he's thick. The guy says, which is so funny because I'm like, didn't we arrest your priest in

This happens where it's like every few years Benson does something not characteristic. Yeah, totally goes against her moral, ethical, professional codes, her better instincts. Like it is strange, and I don't know if it's like that is how humans are and sometimes you fuck up, or you're influenced in a weird way, or if it's the writer's being bad.

I also feel like it's kind of like a setup that Cassidy's not the right guy for her in a way, like she's always having to kind of like make excuses for him and be like yeah, but he doesn't want to do that, or like even later in this episode, I have more examples, like I just think they're kind of setting it up that like, yeah, we want her to be happy, but this isn't the guy, you know, like.

To me, no, but she knew he wasn't the guy season one. It is crazy that they ended up getting back together. I'm doing all these things because like she knew that he was beneath her in nineteen ninety nine and.

Like him going undercover and having a consensual relationship with an escort, that's what brought her around, like it's kind of wild. That's what made her be like, maybe he is different, maybe he's my guy. It doesn't it really doesn't make sense.

I don't know.

Maybe they were having an issue in the writer's room, but either way, Tucker offers to put her in tomorrow on backup, and he wants Benson to convince Cassidy to do it. He's like, you want him up at that Bronx courthouse till he breaks like Groves did. And it's like, we're not even positive anything's wrong with Groves, Like this feels like we're gonna get to the bottom of this.

Cassidy with Wes.

West goes, oh, the guy who got busted with hookers is trying to earn his way back into the department's graces and West is like, oh, if they put you on the back on the beat at your age, put in for your twenty. So it's like he's shading him all over the place, age past everything. So they're walking outside and West's like, I decide where we patrol when we stop to piss, like it's my I'm the boss. Whatever,

This is a quote.

So Wes goes that prosty you got busted for banging? Was she as hot as she looked? So it's like, are you a fan of his or what? Like was this in the newspaper that they were hooking? Like it doesn't that's weird, Like did you just hear that through police gossip? Like I don't understand how he knows that that's Cassidy. And Cassidy's like, screw you, but yeah, like he's trying to set the stage like I'm a dirt

It's like you are bad to be married too.

And then it's like it's one thing to be like how's your new living situation, it's another to be like, how's therapy going? You like your therapist? Tell me about therapy live and she's like, you know, I sent a dozen or more survivors to mister Noodle and it turns out I was right. He's really good. I feel very

She plays a drunk girl, like yelling at the cops or whatever.

So I remember when I watched the episode, I was like, that's Dan's girlfriend, and I did get it confirmed in a deep expanse of Reddit that I did not appreciate having to go to anyway. This girl's name is Gretchen, and she says that guy grabbed my ass, the wrong guy, and Cassidy's like, what about the right one? Like Cassidy just blatantly, out loud flirting with this girl, and the

Like she deserves better than this.

Gretchen says, nice upgrade on your partner to West. So I guess we're to believe that they know each other, Gretchen and West, and that they've met before. So they load her into the car and now we're at her home and West tells Cassidy, you chill down here. If I'm not back in twenty minutes, spring me with a bogus call. She can get clingy. So Lives like, are we just gonna let this happen? And Amarro's like it

So Quinn rolls up with her shorty.

In her police car and asks Cassidy is everything all right? Like she's kind of feeling out if Cassidy's cool with the situation, like you're playing lookout, you get that right, And she says, you know, not to put this in the memo book, and Cassidy goes, what memo book? It's very uh Mountain dew baby, And so liv wants to send Cassidy up there, and Tomorrow's like no, they're testing him, Like we cannot send him up. So when Wes gets back in the car, Cassidy's like, my turn, and he goes,

Is that it? Like what kind of undercover operation is this?

It's like, there's not enough. I sent you in there for one shift. Why didn't you find everything? It's like you begged him, You went around his back to his girl friend and begged her to get him to do it. And now you're like, you guys aren't very good at this. It's like really wild. So either way, if they make Cassidy, the whole investigation is going to go to shit.

And they're like, what whole investigation?

And Tucker admits, He's like, yeah, it turns out some stuff quote unquote shook loose and there's more moving pieces than expected, so there might be more girls, and then the victims are all going to be drunk and scared like Tanya. And Finn's like, well, if that's the case, then why don't you set up a honeytrap?

And of course pick me Girl of the Century goes.

Drunken, disorderly. Pick me, I can do that. Rollins wants to do undercover drunk work, so we cut to West's and Cassidy on the beat. They get a call about another drunk hottie. They take the call, Quinn responds as backup. When they arrive, it's Amanda undercover as a drunk bitch. Finn is her driver, but they are fighting because she fucked up his car or something. They break it up and they tell Rollin's to come with them. She's wearing

Do they have pictures of rollins up?

Like I'm wondering, you know, like how much do they

Are the airbnbing? Who's to say?

So they bring rollins in to this fake apartment. They lie her on the bed and West is talking about this is great because we don't even have to hose this one down, so you can tell they're really taking home like girls that have been sick and stuff. And Tanya had been. Cassidy goes, what if we get a call, and he goes, we can always come back.

I've got her keys.

So then he tells Cassidy get out of here, give me fifteen minutes with her. Then he gets a message on his phone. He goes, I have to make a call. Why don't you have at it? And he goes, quote unquote warmer up for me. Barf so in the car Olivia doesn't like how he's making Cassidy go first. He's like, something's up, Like this guy doesn't want sloppy seconds, like what's happening. Cassidy is going through the motions of like you know, kind of getting on top of Rollins, and

We gotta go.

Everyone is confused why Wes would possibly pass up like hot drunk Rollins on a platter and lives like I think they've made Cassidy like we're in trouble.

Yeah, it's like he did come on strong, but also it seems like they want him to fuck everyone immedia or rape them immediately too.

Yeah, because it's like they just came asking about Tanya maybe you guys take a week off, take a week off of grabbing girls from the clubs, Like, just take a little bit of time off. But they're like immediately back at it. But I get why when you find out what's happening later, kind of get why. So West is like rushing down the stairwell with Cassidy and Quinn shows up gun drawn, calling him a rat, and then Wes suddenly has his gun out too. They pull off

Piece of nothing.

Like.

They just touch his badge and it's like flute opens up. There's a wire, like they can tell he's been recording them. They march him out of there at gunpoint, and fuck now, we're worried because nobody wants to see Cassidy. He does have a texa, a long horned skull, but we don't want to see him die, you know. So back at Amanda's fake apartment and she's like, yeah, something was off.

Cut to them in a yellow cab. Quinn is driving a yellow cab.

They've got Cassidy in the back and West is in the front passenger seat. They made Cassidy hand over his cell. They dial nine one one and Quinn makes a fake call about a man on her fire escape with a gun. She gives an address and goes and he says he's coming back. Then she throws the phone out the window. Cassidy says, what I'm thinking, you're commandeering cabs and making nine to one wone calls from my phone?

That's your plan?

Like these are the dumbest cops.

Of all time.

So like cause they never really explained that, like the nine one one call will be traced to his phone when this is all done, So what's going on? The squad meets up to make a plan to find Cassidy back in the cab. Cassidy's like, you guys got me all wrong, and they're like, we know you worked with Groves in the Bronx.

And Cassidy's like he's a nutjob. I don't believe anything, he says.

The other cops find the little shorty Quinn's partner, and he's like, she got in a cab. She said it was personal. I just got out of the academy three weeks ago.

I do whatever she tells me.

And so now they're on a rooftop and at gunpoint, they ask Cassidy, what did Groves tell you about us? They pistol whip his ass. He keeps saying nothing. They keep saying what did he takes? He keeps saying nothing. Now Cassidy's down on his knees. Quinn gets on her radio and goes shots fired and starts shooting her gun. Wes also goes, can't find my backup into his radio because they're setting the scene for this to be like

The purp grabbed it.

So they're like, last chance to tell us what Groves told you, and Quinn starts counting down from five, and when she's done, Wes goes, you want me to call in the officer down or do you want to do it? And then we hear liv go how about I call it in for YOUA boom pan around to Olivia. Everybody's there. They're busted. They're like, we're on the job. It's like we know you're dresses. Cops like they cuff them, they walk off, and lives like are you okay, baby, And

No footprints of the other guys.

Nothing, no presence of another person, mar Tires, no nothing. It's just it is dumb decision after dumb decision. But at the precinct, Tanya is there and lives like we got them, we got West and Quinn. You don't have to be scared, but you just got to tell me what happened. And Tanya's like, oh yeah, and you'll believe me and do something about it. Like she's rightfully so very skeptical and does not trust cops and lives like, yes I will. Will you trust me, and then you

Girl.

So I think this is shocking on this part too, because I thought this was a reveal. I didn't know the lieutenant was in on this shit like I didn't. I thought the lieutenant was a good guy until just now.

Yeah, I think that's the point of the show. I don't know's that's it.

Yeah, but the girl is saying, Tanya's going I knew the lieutenant seemed like a bad guy, like there was she didn't get a good.

Feeling from the lieutenant.

But she did get a good feeling from Growth, so I just that's sort of like a reveal to me. But in the cement bars room, now Amanda's talking to Wes and he's like, it's entrapment, like you set me up. And they're like, Quinn's gonna turn on you, and he's like, nah, not Quinny, not my girl, Quinny. And now Amaro's talking to Quinn, being like, right now, this is all on you, girl. You made the nine one one call. You held the gun on Cassidy. She's like, no, I didn't, and Wes

A little coke.

She's like, what a little coke? A little bump here in there. I got hit with a random drug test. He gave me his urine and like bailed my ass out. So then lives like, you think that means he loves you. He was holding that against you, He knew you felt that way about him, and he was using that too. You can really see this woman like grasping for the

When they're watching this. Well, she's just humiliating this woman.

I mean, she's evistraating her. But don't you think she's also getting a little bit of shit off her own chest at the same time. These are internal affairs of the heart. Then Amaro goes, oh, what was it Wes said about you? Girls like Quinny, You throw them a couple of crumbs. They're so grateful they'll do anything. She doesn't believe he said that, but lives like he said that, And he said, worse, it's over. It's not gonna happen. It was never gonna happen. She's literally giving her that

We gave you a.

Chance, and she goes, actually I don't need him. She's ready to spill. So jess, you know, she says it wasn't only West, it was a lot of drunk girls, a lot of long nights. Guys were either into that, into coke or on the take or all three. So get me a pat and a pen. And she's really

You know.

She's just like, give me the pen. I'm writing it down. So this is the big reveal. How did you know Cassidy was undercover? Live, asks her, and she goes, I got a call mid tour from my lieutenant, So fuck I wrote the tree is rotten from the trunk. And then Tucker is watching and goes, bingo, that's what I was waiting for. But Cassie is like, how the fuck did the lieutenant know that I was undercover? And Tucker goes, cause, I told him the whole house was dirty, extortion, kickbacks.

Groves can't believe it. He's like, is this a trick?

I mean, I can't imagine the trauma of being hospitalized and put under a cycle of value, like a cycled when there's absolutely nothing wrong with you. Like that's so traumatizing. And they're like, no, man, you're a hero. And the guy can't believe it. He's like, let me take you home. He's like to the Rockaways, It's like they end talking about traffic the way they began talking about traffic. So at the end we got Benson and Cassidy snuggling on

Like you believe me?

Right?

When I was getting my dick sucked, I did not like it. And then she's like, shut the fuck up. Has anyone ever told you to just shut your fucking mouth and not talk? And he goes everyone all the time. Then they have a little smooch and that's dick wolf Baby. I'm not surprised. There's a real story, but I don't know it. So I'm excited for you to tell it to me.

M Yeah, I am too. I am too. So thank you for that episode. And you really did that Benson takedown incredibly. Okay, so I'm going to talk about the Adrian Schoolcraft scandal for all of this a New York crime broken by the Village Voice.

How exciting is that?

Ooh?

I love that.

But the other suggestion on the crime in like the document was rape cop scandal And I guess how many Google hits that hat?

There's not one?

Okay, You're like, do I have to narrow it down by state?

Yeah, Like it was so many rape cop scandals, so like I don't know which one they meant, so I'm not covering that. So yeah, Adrian's Schoolcraft. What a cool last name. So he this guy Adrian, he was an NYPD cop. Background on him. He's a registered Republican born in Texas. He's the son of a Dallas cop and a bank official.

He joined the US Navy.

He was on active duty in Japan as basically a paramedic, and he left with an honorable discharge. But like, I wonder what he was doing in Japan in the eighties, Like I don't, I don't get it, but I don't know history.

What years was it?

This is in the two thousands. There are tons of military bases in Japan. It said active duty.

There was like and I was a paradi there was eyeballs as something exploded, I would have I had just sew him up. And it's like in Japan and in Japan eighties nineties, I don't do I not know history. I don't know, well, I know I don't know history, but I really don't know this. So I whatever, But and then he came back after his honorable discs charge random jobs, some Walmart, some Motorola. He ended up going to take care of his mother and upstate New York

Wildly.

You know who else was at the eighty first Precinct before was famed whistleblower Frank Serpico. Oh, he spent a few years of his career there. Now I only know about it because there's a movie. I bet DeNiro's in it. I don't actually know who this guy is. Yeah, but I guess he whistleblowed in the Cops and works in the same precinct, so I don't know what that means.

I always think about that name too, because the actor who plays Olivia's current boss is Terry Cerproco. Yeah, and I was like, that is not like a famous cop. But I didn't know he was a big whistleblower. So maybe that'll be another case we cover or something. But personally I did not even google the name. I went, that's a movie and kept capt movie.

But I did find it important enough to include and continue talking about. Okay, so he was known in the precinct for so this guy, not Curproco. This Adrian school Crafts was known in the precinct for rescuing more than a dozen abandoned pets.

I don't know. Yeah, he saved dogs that were starving and bleeding and stuff.

But he had issues with how things were running in the department and how shit was going down at the precinct, and he started raising concerns. At first, it was like, oh, safety issues, Like he really had a big issue that cops worked twenty hour shifts day after day.

It's insane. You know it's not safe.

So he started carrying a digital recorder to initially record street encounters, like just to be safe.

But in two thousand and six.

Steve Morilo arrived as captain and then later became a commander, and he was all about numbers, and like numbers only, clashed with Adrian's philosophy of policing. Quoted in The Village Voice, Schoolcraft believes in a community model of policing, and he said, you pull someone over for a seatbelt violation and they have their idea, all their papers, you don't need to give them a ticket, just warn and admonish. You don't

They just started like nitpicking him.

So then he was put on performance monitoring for not hitting his numbers, and they threatened again to transfer him, and he's like, listen, I'm gonna work harder, but I will not be right.

Fake Summons is like, that's not what I'm doing.

And then a little birdie cop, a little friend whispers to him that they're trying to look for a way to force him out on psychiatric grounds, so like he better, you know, watch out. So now it's April April third, Adrian was having chest pains.

He didn't feel good.

He was sent to an NYPD doctor and he was complaining there, and then he complained to the department psychologists. And it's like, stop complaining to people at work, Like this is the thing, Like he did do good things, like iaby is good. Cops should not be breaking roles. We're gonna find out more about what the priescinct did. But like so it's like you are dumb. You seem dumb. You seem like an idiot. You don't understand what professionalism. And I've done this, but I'm also a comedian, so

Yeah, but also if you're just venting, vent to like a friend outside of work, this is just gonna get you in more.

PA. He clearly doesn't have friends. And so because of all of this and everything that happened, and like the psyche and all the shit he talked, they took away his guns and his shield and they put him on desk duty to protect him, they said in quotes. So cut to June where he gets the idea to write a patrolman's report to the commissioner. He got this idea from a book about NYPD corruption in the early nineteen seventies, and it's a book called Target Blue. He's like, I'm

Like, the dude was on top of it.

So Dirk also promised to call the captain at Eternal Affairs named Brandon del Pozzo, and so two days later, August twentieth, Schoolcraft finally reported to IAB. He said that two supervisors at the eighty first Precinct entered a locked file room and removed records of civilian complaints from the personal file of one of the supervisors. So right after that was submitted, the Lieutenant Timothy Coffee posted a memo at the precinct that said, all IAB inquiries should be brought to me first.

Lol.

Nothing happened though, until Dirt called del Pozo, and that's what made.

The department react.

I guess I find it funny that del Pozo like call, Like dirt calling is what got everything in notice. Not two years of recording precinct roll call, you know what I mean. Like, there was just so much evidence and it's while that they needed, you know, an old guy to come in to finally take it serious.

But Schoolcraft was very diligent.

There's two years of recordings, so every single precinct role call. What's embarrassing to me is over two years of recordings, not one cop noticed, Like, not one cop realized what was happening. So there was a hundred and seventeen roll calls recorded. He was also recording like his superiors. He also showed the manipulation of crime reports and the proof of using a quota system, the culture of retaliation against whistleblowers, which dues.

This is what we're talking about.

He also began recording stuff after he was accused of loafing, which is something you new. I guess when you loaf around, you're lazy, because he was not meeting goals for arrests and summonses, and so his allegations at that Bedstye Precinct led to internal charges against some of the officers involved, which also included the former commander of the precinct, Deputy

He was not punished at all.

He also in the Times in the New York Times as a quote the Steve Mariello guy that at a meeting warning the precinct leaders, he wrote, rats coming out of here wearing tape recorders and.

That image I just kind of enjoyed.

So also four officers faced internal charges because of the tape, two sergeants and two patrol officers, and failure to file a robbery complaint, all charges. The AP reported stemmed from the allegations made by school Craft.

So Edward D.

Mullins, president of the Sergeant's Union, is quoted in The Times in a nutshell, this is bogus. They all the quotes from the other cops and sergeants are really funny throughout. So, like cops and precincts are always trying to deny the existence of like quotas and New Yorkers, and I think most Americans know that that's not true, and they keep

It's all about quotas.

They just want they want Judy Hops to give out one hundred tickets and she goes, I'm gonna do two hundred, and she does that. I mean, they're parking tickets but still so.

On the tape.

In this evidence, the police captain Alex Perez is heard warning his top commanders that their officers must start writing more summonses or there would be consequences. Perez offered a precise number and suggested a method. He basically would switch your shift and fuck up your life. So on one of the tapes that was released, according to The New York Times, this Perez guy on the tape says, I don't care about people's families.

Don't.

If they don't want to do their job, they're going to start being productive if they want a tour that works for their family.

So that's basically a thing.

If you didn't get the numbers, they would put you on midnight or like stuff like that. Officers on a particular shift need to write as a group.

Twenty summons is a week.

He suggests to doing five each for double parking, parking at a bus stop, driving without a seatbelt, and driving while using a cell phone. And there's another direct quote from the tape and it says, you as bosses, have to demand this and have to count it. I really don't have a problem firing people. And this is what they called bogus. This is bogus evidence like the bed Siam Brownsville residents are like, fuck you. This directly results in the pattern of harassment we all experience, like the

She tried to file a report for over.

Two days, talked to five different officers, came in to talk to the lieutenant, who promised he would be there but wasn't.

And so then Adrian heard her story.

He wrote it all out and basically he bundled it with a button like dozens of other cases from crime victims who were quote trapped in a bureaucratic hamster wheels that seemed to have purposely been set up to make it hard to report serious crimes. And that's a quote from the New York Times. He was convinced it was a pattern. So on October seventh, two thousand and nine, he meets with investigators and tells them about the woman with the car and others and how their cases would

Oh my god, so the evidence.

Found and showed a deliberate underreporting of crime. He sat for three hours with the inspector, a lieutenant, and three sergeants with the Quality Assistance Division. On October twenty seventh, a Brooklyn North sergeant told Schoolcraft that he was on

Paid, still get paid.

Oh my god.

Ah, but this guy got suspended without pay. I mean that's what's so difficult, all of this. It's like, you know, if you're gonna say it's just a few bad apples, then you can't treat the good ones like this right, like it is just such proof that it is systemic and it's all of them, because good cops would be rewarded. Yeah, but also this guy does seem dumb. And like I've talked about this before. When I was a younger comedian, my day job was like pretending to be Wendy Marino,

Like I think this guy.

Did really good things and like did all this evidence and really wanted to be a good police officer who wasn't about the numbers. But I do think, like I don't trust him when he's like I wasn't feeling good so I left work early.

I'm like, yeah, you can't do that.

I don't know. There's just these like moments where I'm like, I don't know, like you.

Are still a cop.

And I was gonna say this for later, but he did say the end word on a bunch of these tapes and they were kept in court.

Oh school crafted, yeah.

And he tried, like his lawyer tried to get them out, but the judge would allow it. And so like in the tapes, he is also being like, I don't want to work with all these n words.

Move them over.

So it is just like they are also cops. Like he did do all these good things, I believe, but like he is still a cop Republican who was in the military, you know, Like I don't know, I doubt we would get along. But it is really fucked up. What happened to him, and he did do a lot of things. He put a lot on the line and like whatever. So the arrest in hospitalization were ordered by

And I also, like, I hated doing.

This research because I hate knowing like deputy chief, Deputy chief, lieutenant, captain, shut up, you're all losers, you know what I mean. I hate that I have to like learn all this so and they're all really hard words to spell too. He also felt like coffee was menacing him and he just was not feeling good, you know. He like his bosses were all mad at him, the energy, you know,

Then around six six thirty.

Different papers have different reports, but who cares, it's like a half hour difference. His dad called him about the cop lights outside of his place, but he thought that was strange because no one had knocked or buzzed into his home, but he did see all the lights. He checked his phone and there was messages from Sergeant Huffman and it was her saying she denied his sick approval. She did not approve his time off and he needs to return back to the station immediately.

And she never said he can go home sick.

But they kept trying to get into his apartment for three hours, and he wouldn't let them in. He like wouldn't open the door, and he wouldn't help anybody. So but then they started coming up the stairs. It was a group of officers and they went into his bedroom. They forcibly took him from his home in Queen's by all senior police officials and then was delivered to like a hospital psychiatric word and he fucking recorded it, dude, He recorded it.

Of course he did.

Because he had time, right so, like, because they he wouldn't let them in and they were out there, but they couldn't get into the apartment.

You know, there was just like a lot of stuff.

So during the raid, a senior official did confiscate his audio recorder that was on him, but he had a secret backup that was recording on a shelf. And one of the quotes on the recording, another funny thing is him going.

What is this Russia? And I like that?

And so the cops the way they got in was ended up using the landlord's key, but they lied to the landlord. They said that Schoolcraft was suicidal, you know, lie, and so that's why the landlord gave in, but he wouldn't have had Also, all the videos are excerpts and if you want to hear them, they're in an episode of This American Life on this story. Also, the Village Voice had a series started by this called the NYPD Tapes, and the recordings were made public to show a pattern

Like.

The Village Voices piece came out on June fifteenth, twenty ten, and in it it says the NYPD found in their budget to also send officers to his Upstate home to

Thank you very much. I mean, this is my you know.

I believe in free lunch for all children in all schools, breakfast lunch groceries to take home on the weekends, like kids should be fed.

I think my second thing that I.

Believe so hard in is cops need to pay for their own legal services, and if they get found guilty of stuff, it needs to come out of their pension. I bet they would start acting correct if they had to fucking pay for it. And I saw on TikTok there was like, I don't know who this was, but a black person was telling other black people to get life insurance policies and how important it is because if police do God forbid, something happens to you because of police.

You know who tries to get their money.

Insurance companies, and that insurance will go after cops. I think I've talked about this on this Yeah podcast before, but It's just like, thinking about all this money that is spent because cops get sued and that we pay for it is infuriating. Yeah yeah, okay, So six hundred grand he got. He also I'm very happy about got back pay and benefits starting from October two thousand and nine through the end of twenty fifteen. So that's pretty

Okay.

Oh.

Also, the end we'd thing I was talking about was from the New York Post. I did not see it anywhere else, but it was in the Post. So you know, take with that what you want. But I'm also not like, no, you know what I mean, I can't believe it. So the city's law department, in a statement, said the settlement should not be construed as an admission that the city or any city employee engaged in wrongdoing. Okay. So Also,

Retired in twenty twenty three.

Marino ended his career in twenty fourteen with twenty three complaints, forty one allegations, four substantiated, and those are for pushkicks, two of them push shoves and cursing Steven Mariello. He's still active. Let's visit his precinct when you come visit me. Since December twenty twenty three, he got a new job. Oh wow, as an inspector Transit Bureau, Manhattan. I'm sure

Adams is a fucking whatever.

I just feel like this guy getting this job with him him in office as mayor is just too convenient, like something I just don't buy.

What's this saying?

Yeah, but Steve Morello, he had another small lawsuit out only one complaint, two allegations, so one substantiated obviously.

Wow to a practically squeaky clean cop. Wow.

So I mean what is cool about this case? Obviously the documents that were like fucked around, and like people's investigations with the robberies were fucked with.

There are victims of this crime.

He was traumatized, like being put into psych word and handcuffed obviously.

But in terms of our podcasts.

Easy crime, Yeah, children are safe, there's no sexual I mean this was a pretty easy breezy except spelling lieutenant and sergeant.

This was like a nice yeah, a nice thing for me.

Yeah.

I mean these guys were just covering up like their literal comstat stuff like they were they were just covering up you know, robberies and like some violent crimes or whatever.

But they weren't covering up client crimes that.

They were they themselves committing as much as in the episode, which is probably just conflating other stories of there's plenty of cops that have committed like habitual sexual.

Yeah, because that's just one precinct with one guy with one set of people, you know, like.

Yeah, at one time in history.

Yeah, it's so much everywhere at all times, and.

Like it's everything everywhere all at once, bad cops.

And even though you're saying, like you know, it's like forging their police work, but it's like, you know, when things happen to people in the city or everywhere, it's like we'll go to the cops and it's like these people are and like thinking of like cab drivers and people at work and like older people just getting the ship beat out of them, and their case is not being taken seriously obviously, like sexual assault stuff. So it's like fuck the numbers, fuck funding, like fuck every like

It's tough, like you know, there are some joys, but we do have a great guest. Thank you for doing all that research. Let's get to our fun guests. Okay, our guest today, Lisa and I both clocked immediately on a cross country flight. I knew him immediately as Russ Langmore from Ozark on Netflix, but he has been in dramas and comedies alike. He's been on Curb Inside, Me, Schumer, The Sinner, Homeland talk about a Renaissance Man. He's also been on Lisa's favorite show, Manifest and a regular on

Well, this is a first for our podcast. Welcome.

We did meet at Delta one, yes, and now we're here. Are you at the level of flying where when it's an old plane you're kind of pissed.

Yeah, I was. I was a little bit pissed on that. One means yeah, it's a bummer when you get on the old planes. Yeah, it's like getting on South African airways in business and you're like, I went to South Africa two thousand and seven and it was the first time I'd ever flown up front.

I was like, oh my gosh, it's amazing.

And then I went back in twenty eighteen for another job and I was like, I think this is the exact same plane that I flew down and back on. I'm not sure if it's going to make it.

Wait, how many jobs are you doing in South Africa? That's cool.

I've only done two.

That's amazing.

Well, I thought you both looked comfy in Delta one. I was back in coach on that same flight.

Well, so Amy Miller was sitting that some mark and like being so chatty. And then later I was like, yeah, you're so chatty and cool, like I don't really do that, and she goes, that was for you. She's like, I would never talk to anyone on a plane, and I go, wow, thank you, bless you. Amy, What is your plane routine? What are you watch? What are you?

Are you just passing out? Kind of?

I never remember to download anything until like right when I'm about to leave for the airport, so I usually don't. The reason I was a couple of minutes later was because I don't use my iPad that very much, and I had to install Gmail again to get to the zoom link. So I used to watch a movie and I've been I try to read, but that usually sends me to sleep.

Yeah, my new thing is a Nintendo Switch, and I play a Mario from my youth. So and the flights fly by I land sometimes I go, oh ready, it changes everything when Yoshi's around.

I was never good at video games and they only made me mad.

So neither was I.

But now you're a grown up, I'm beating the games of my childhood.

There you go.

Well, Well, when I got on the airplane, I did recognize you from Ozark, which I loved your role so much on Ozark. But we'll talk about that later. But I knew you'd been on an SVU, so we looked you up. But I when I was rewatching the episode, I was like, I almost don't recognize him without his mustache. Don't you feel like your mustache is sort of like a signature thing.

Uh?

Yeah, And I don't like going without facial hair.

Yeah, I was what I was going to ask you, and s for.

You made me. I was like, mustache would be great, and they're like, nah.

Yeah, it wouldn't have really made a difference. I feel if you had had a mustache.

Yeah, no, they didn't want it.

I will say it did make you look a little like more maybe like boyish and like innocent, like and just getting hauled away and tased and everything. Maybe that was like their vibes.

They wanted people to feel bad for you.

Like this young this poor little guy is just like moving getting hauled off.

Possibly, so yeah, I do.

I lose several years when I shaved. I had to do it for Jack Ryan last year, and I'd come from just having like a very very big beard. I did Ozark, and then I had to shave for Jack Ryan. I went back to Ozark, I had to put the fake beard on, and then I grew a full beard, like an Ozark beard for this film. And then Jack Ryan called and they were like, we need to do like three or.

Four hours of reshoots.

Oh no.

I was also in Thailand, and I had to fly to Toronto to see my wife for like two days, and then I flew to Budapest to do Jack Ryan and I was I tried up until the last second. I was like, can we just shoot it from behind and you don't see my face? And they were like no, no.

Cigar, does the bearded set get up mad? Or They're just like, Okay, we've got to do the fake beard. And that's that, Like how do you do it when you're like jumbling the jobs with all this hair.

It's one of the most stressful things about the job. Ozark had a beard made in case I wasn't able to grow it out for when they brought me back

I'm taking that right now too, because I had two children and they stole my hair away from me.

Where do you guys shoot that?

Is it la or do you go on location for Ozart outside of Atlanta?

I love Atlanta. You're all over the place. That's cool, A good life.

Yeah, this last year was my wife is also an actress. We kind of, you know, with the strike, I kind of I worked on a show here and there. She was supposed to start a show in June, which obviously got pushed. So we kind of had most of last year just like hanging out, being together. And then I randomly got a job the other day and we were planning to go up state for you know, I have

I can't be thinking about leaving on twelve.

Where's Cologne, Germany?

Germany? Yeah?

I just thought cologne perfume. I cologne is a bliss. So you're married to an actress. Did you meet on set?

No, we have the same manager.

Ooh.

I mean she's been with my manager for probably twenty five years. I've been with them for fifteen or sixteen years. And then I think she was I think she just kind of tracked us and was like, now's Now's not the time. And then a little over four years ago we were both in La for I was out there for the outside of premiere and she was out there working and she put us in touch, and she hates going to premieres, but she came anyways. Yeah, and then it was it was kind of a magic night.

I love it.

Wow, that's so cool.

And then in two weeks and then a month, and then the pandemic hit and we were holed up and she went back to London. I went over to London right for everything shut down, and then we holed up in the countryside for five months or whatever.

Wow, that's cool. Where are you guys, base? Like, where are you now? Are you in New York?

We're in New York now? Yeah?

Wow cool?

Yeah?

Well, I mean we're going to get back to the SVU. But we talked to a lot of actors that are married to other actors, and we always asked like, do you guys help each other out with auditions or is that like a stay away from it, it's only going to cause problems kind of scenario.

No, we always do it. I mean we have quite a laugh doing it.

It's probably more takes than it should be because I mean she's an absolute goofball and she'll usually start doing something just to make me laugh during the takes and we get it done.

I love to hear that this is good.

We've talked to couples where it gets aggressive or they can't even do it because they fight so much. Oh really Oh and I've been a witness to it before too, where I was like helping someone with a tape and they were shocked by my kindness because their husband wouldn't let them do another take or something. I was like, why don't we do it again this way? And she was like, wait, we can do another one. I'm like, yeah, what's going on here?

But the only time that happened was did you see that film Barbarian? Not?

Yea, my husband did. My husband said it was awesome.

I'm too scared.

So good. So those guys it was their follow up to Barbarian and it was one scene, like seven page scene. It could possibly be a scene stealer of the film. I don't know, but they were making me read and I didn't really. I just kind of It's like me talking to someone who's speaking German and not. I'm kind of thinking I understand what they're saying, but I have no idea. And I did one take and she threw the pages out. She was like, I don't know why

And I was like, okay, we didn't get a fight it, Yeah.

But that was to defender honor.

Yes, yeah, then did you get it?

I did? Yeah?

Oh, she was right.

I love to hear that she's a goofball, because you know, I think of her as Sirce Lanister and she seems mean. But I like hearing that in real life people are so different than their characters. That's what people say about like Mariushka Hargate from SVU, that she's a real goofball, even though that's not what you get from her and like what you know her as?

I mean, I guess that's acting. I'm not really saying anything in name.

She's one of the wittiest, funniest people. She's quick. She needs to do a comedy.

I think people would love that. I think people would have really welcome that.

Yeah, yeah, I guess before we died fully into SVU. I'm a huge Miley Cyrus fan. You did do the Black Mirror? Do you have any scoop that maybe a fan would love to hear?

I only met her one day. We chatted for a while. It was just like pretty chill before we chot. The funny thing that happened was she wrapped. It was her last day and I had to keep shooting, and I got back to the trailers and I'd hung out with her sister and her sister's friend, Valerie, so Brandy and Vale, I'd hung out with them during the week. But Miley came out of the makeup trailer and I was just walking back into the parking lot where the trailers were, and she saw me.

This.

It was so larious because I was like, I can't believe, like she's Miley's Tyrus and I was. I was very cool and restrained when we chatted, and uh, and she came running out of the trailer and she.

Goes, oh my gosh, and she jumped literally like jumped legs around, arms around.

Here's a dude from Ozark. I have no idea, And I was like, I want to. I think I'm gonna. I should be doing that to you. You're stars.

Wow, you got a movie style jump hug from Miley.

Yeah, movie star.

That's pretty impressive. Yeah, that's the that's the story I wanted for sure. Thank you very much. Okay, so let's talk about this SPU episode you did. You're not a stranger to the Dick Wolf universe. You've done Criminal Intent, yeah, and you've done SVU and then recently you did organized Crime and so SVU. So when you did this, what was going on in your career? Were you like excited

I think it was SVU.

I don't know how many times I auditioned for that, And you know, I would walk in see the same producers, usually a different director.

It'd be like hey guys and be like, hey.

You know, I want to guess the other parts you got close to.

Did you go out for a military dude who like shoots his daughter's attacker, because I feel like that could have been you.

I mean, it's very very possible.

You don't have to do that.

Yeah, do you remember an audition from thirteen years ago?

When was this?

This episode aired in twenty thirteen.

Twenty thirteen, Okay, I was like, I'm not gonna audition for him anymore, Like I just won't do it. And then I didn't have anything, and then I think, but I mean, Jonathan the castro director is such a lovely guy.

I really like him.

And then I got an offer, and I was like, I think they were just like, we're out of options and this guy, we need to get him off the circuit for this show. We'll give him this.

Well, and you're friends with Dean Winters.

Yeah, yeah, I know Dean. We just had a FaceTime with him the other day.

Well, because that was fine.

On the plane, you were going through our podcast and almost like every few seconds you'd be like, that's my friend. Wait, I know that you know Robert John Burke, like you know so many of the svs.

Yeah. I called Kevin not long ago, and I was like, dude, I didn't know you were regular or recurry. I didn't know what he don't.

I still don't know what exactly he's doing.

Karas Max, we're recurring right now. We're hoping he becomes a regular. I'm annoyed. They just premiered the season this week, and I thought I was going to see him in the credits, in the main credits, I thought he was going to become one of the regulars. I think he's a very needed bit of humor to the show because he's funny, he's great.

Kevin's wonderful. I've known Kevin a very long time. We used to be in this theater group together.

Was it the one with Amy Schumer?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, the collective.

It was fun. A lot of us studied at the same place and I wasn't in their class, but I met them afterwards.

You probably know so many actors. I really hype up that time in New York in my head that I wasn't there where people were like auditioning in person and running around and you probably and not that any shows shot there, and you probably all saw each other, and I like have this fantasy of that time.

In my head. I loved that time of life, especially like before I had an agent or anything, and like I'd finished wait tables and I'd go and I had a manager's log in to break downs. I met her. I met her a few years ago at a film festival and I was like, thank you because I got a job because I had your log in.

That's so cool.

Like run around and like drop your head, shout out at casting director's offices and before they put out boxes that were like if you are submitting yourself, put it in this box ten blocks down the road.

Yeah, so you knew. Dean.

I was like set, I was shooting. I was getting tasted, you know, all the all the scoop.

Uh, it was good. Yeah, Dean, I mean Dean's he's a great dude. We have the same business manager. That's kind of how I met him originally. And then I think he and Lee Turgison are good buddies. I'm sure Lee's done every law and order there is.

Well yeah, and they're both OZ boys, and I like was a huge OZ person.

Oh yeah in OZ. Yeah, and getting taste. I sprained my ankle because I was trying to make it look real. And I was falling down that thing and I rolled my ankle over. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what else happened, So I ratted some people out.

You did a great job. It's a really terrifying scene. I mean it's so like FATS past. You're like, what's going on? And like, I mean, I'm sorry about your ankle, but I think you it was worth it.

Yeah, it definitely hurt. That's one of the one of the uh visceral memories of that show.

Who directed it? I can't remember. Do you know that information?

Jeandice Segodon Zach Oh, yeah, yeah, Jean.

Yeah, he does a ton of Dick Wolf World stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's done fifty two svs. Damn in their working.

Yeah, they have a cycle there.

So did you have to shoot it? Like a bunch of times of you just getting tased? I mean, like what, Yeah.

I think we also dented in the lockers. I remember the Yeah, the lockers got Danadenners and they weren't like breakaway.

Nothing good ever happens at the lockers. Whenever we get to see the lockers, you know, something's amiss.

Yeah, school lockers.

Too, Like honestly, this is a new thing. We're real.

If there's a locker, usually nothing's good is inside of it, or a CoP's about to do something shady.

Yeah.

But even when I saw you, I was like, oh, you were a bad cop, Like I forgot that you you were good, were a whistleblower.

Yeah that was the whistleblower.

Yeah yeah, but it's bookended, you know, you just you get dragged off and then we learned that you're a hero.

Well that that was the thing before when they offered it.

You know, I got the script and I one of the things I emailed back, and I was like, there's got to be some resolution to this, dude, Like we can't because they asked if, you know, if I wanted to do it and whatnot. I was like, we.

Should put in some resolution, like I just go away and then I'm kind of the hero and then don't get brought back in. So they wrote the scene of him coming back, coming to get me out of the hospital or whatever.

Yeah, thank god. That would have been really dark for you to just be committed to a mental institution against your will and then left there forever.

Yeah.

Yeah, onlike other svus. But yeah, we're glad you we got some resolution as well.

Yeah, did y'all start this because you wanted to?

You were like, we're going to watch all of SVU or were you SVU fans?

No, we started it because we have already seen every episode of SVU mosttimes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the day that me and Karen met. I don't know how sv got started. This was years ago, but I brought up. I used to follow a Twitter account called Doink Doink, and it would tweet anytime a Law and Order was on television what channel and what episode?

Oh really?

So I like I'd be on Twitter and be like, oh something, and I could change it.

And so that's how we bonded. And then years later she had this idea.

But now we're sick now, like we know the names of obscure episode who comes back? Like we're really at a place that's sick, and we'll start talking about plots very casually and forget that it is upsetting to certain people. You know, you can't just bring it up at dinner.

I shouldn't be so loose.

And it's We're also really annoying to be around because if we're watching anything and someone's from SVU, they'll be like, oh, he was in an episode. Oh you know it's bad. Yeah, and now I'm moving and I'm looking around my apartment at all my SVU memorabilia.

Now, yeah, it's a it's an issue.

You did Criminal Intent back in nine, and then you did this in thirteen, and then you did OC really like kind of recently.

Yeah.

Are you mostly a bad guy?

Yeah?

I always die except for this SVU episode.

Yeah, this was a turn as a good guy.

Yeah.

Wait, do you have any passions to be a good guy or.

No, there's a film that I really want to do that he's a good guy as long as they can. They're financing everything done. But I like twisted, fucked up guys. Yeah, which usually ends in death for the most part.

What's been your craziest death or most dramatic or something that maybe you just remember fondly.

I mean the Outsider I did put my mouth to a rifle and pull the trigger. I did a movie called Sick where I got thrown over a railing and landed on the antlers. Some antlers have been knocked off the wall and the antlers went through me like this, which.

Was pretty that's sick. That is sick.

That was probably cool to watch the makeup and people try to figure that out, right, or who does that?

Who gets the antlers through you?

I think one of the girls pushed me over the edge, you know, I mean, it's movie magic. What other deaths have been? I mean the frying on Ozark was a first. Yeah, to get fried?

That was a complicated one, like electric chair or like are you deep fried?

He touches a ladder to get out of a boat.

Yeah, the ladder is electrified. Oh that's fun.

Yeah, hell yeah. I've considered putting together a death reel and just sent it out to cast Greicher's.

You should you would blow up on TikTok. People would love that.

I've never been on tick.

I mean, I've seen somebody's TikTok before, never been on it.

I don't I'm not allowed to have it on my phone because I love it too much. Yeah, I don't even love it. It just sucks you in. It's you know, it's like a slot machine, and I'm ready to be taken.

I would much rather go to the slot machine.

Do you play backgammon any chance?

I play every morning. My wife and I play every day.

Are you serious? It's like her favorite thing. I played last night.

Yeah. I can't believe I got that vibe.

No, we just did a We just played a game before I was coming on here.

Wow.

Incredible. Yeah.

I brought it to the comedy store a couple weeks ago, and I started a trend, and now people play backgammon.

I'm excited.

We love it. We're extremely competitive.

Wow. Yeah, it's more fun when you're competitive in that game, and when it gets super close you're losing by a role.

Wow. I can't believe you guys play.

Every day, every single day.

That's so crazy.

We wake up, Wiley gets on the bus to go to school. We usually play three to four games, and then.

The daughter gets ready to go to school, and.

Then we come back and we play a few more games, and then usually we take little breaks during the day and play.

I'm obsessed And do you guys you have a little suitcase.

Yeah.

Wow, I can't.

Believe you sensed this, Lisa.

It's interesting how she was rolling really well today and I wasn't. But yesterday I rolled like three or four double sixes in a game, and you know, double fives and double fours, and it was almost like a perfect game. It's so fun.

Well, when that happens in my family's home and my dad has a good role, my mom accuses him of cheating, and then they don't play for him on set of time, so watch out.

There was one day recently where she had she had won a couple of games and then I started. I was just like looking in the little cup and doing this and then I rolled and I gotta I got a double six.

I did it like two or three games in a row, and she was like stop stop that.

I was like, people do it when they play craps, They like, you know, get the dice to the numbers that they want. And now my new thing is I go, I start shaking, I go, come on baby. And then.

And a lot of times I have rolled double six. It's first roll, which is a great first role.

Oh it's it's really fun. I love getting a five to six and a six one. Those always uh kind of excite me.

I've literally never played, so I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Well, I'm scared to I'm scared to teach Kara because she is very competitive. But I think for my own enjoyment, I got a teacher, so because I know you would take it upon yourself to get good, because I've sawt our other friend but he's not practicing. So then every time we play, it's not fun for me because he's not getting better. Yeah, so I think, Kara, maybe you would take it upon yourself.

To get good because you want to win.

We often say we're like, we have a problem.

And the other day I had I had a zoom with the creator of the show that my wife's going to go do and I'm gonna do some In the zoom, I kept having to remind myself to pay attention because I was like I was in my head. We had just finished playing games. In my head, I started going through different scenarios on the backgammon board of like if I rolled this and the this, and I would be like, no, stop, listen to what, listen to what he's saying.

Focus in forget about back Gavin for a second.

Yeah, you know who else?

I watched the Architectural Digests on YouTube and Aaron Paul and his wife play every morning too.

Oh really we should do a tournament with him, right.

Yeah, they live in some like cabins somewhere. But I get excited when I see it. You know, it's an ancient, ancient game, survived thousands of years.

It's cool. Yeah, and now we get to play it.

Do you have any other like memories of like the sview episode that you shot, or like our listeners will love any Maloney tidbits if you have those from OC you know Maloney.

I had no idea what to expect going in to meet him.

Uh huh.

He's a fantastic person, like just a good human.

I love going on a.

Show that has like with the lead is just.

Like somebody who's generous and gracious to everybody that works on the show.

He's exactly that way.

I went up to his room to rehearse something, and you know, we got to talking about he had one of those one of those rollers, those you know that you roll your muscles out.

Yeah, we got.

Chatting about that.

He's a very buff dude. As I'm sure you can.

Tell we've noticed.

Yeah, he was such a great guy who, you know, knew everybody's name on set, which I'm like, that's that's how you should be when you're number one, not like other number ones that all of us actors have seen.

Yeah, I'm going to ask a question after.

Oh no, Yeah, you know, he was just like collaborative, which was which was great, especially in the scene. I forget what it was that we had a bunch of back and forth, and I also just kind of wanted to have a whiskey with him. Didn't do that, but we ended up having a couple of friends in common. I should have watched the SPU episode before I did this, and I didn't. I mean, I was glad to finally maybe be accepted by them because it had been so

Well, apparently, like there's all different things we've heard, because at the very beginning they were like letting people come back and play different characters all the time, and then I think now they make you wait a few years like in between.

Yeah, yeah, but if you came.

Back with your beard and your mustache.

No one would know, no one would remember, I feel because they look very different.

Yeah.

Yeah, I want you getting arrested, you know at court freak out in the courtroom.

Yeah, we could. It be fun to recreate that. Do you see that that guy that jumped over the.

Yes, yes, do you think you can do that?

You think you can get that kind of height.

A little springboard down there.

He got so much air.

It really is horrifying that no one was able to stop him, but he got air air.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I would love to.

I've only auditioned for Dick wolf once and I wasn't told that he was going to be there, and it threw me off. I think it was for maybe FBI or something. I was, you know, I think I was also like in a weird spot, in a breakup or something, and I went in there and Dick Wolfe was in there. I'd never seen him. He didn't look like what I thought he would look like. So that also threw me off and turned out to be one of the worst auditions I've ever done.

And he may have just like flagged that been like that guy never again.

Well, you still but you've been on three.

I mean they just your OC episode was only a year or two ago.

Right, Like, so, yeah, you can't be blacklisted that hard.

No, that's that's true.

No, but I'm with you. When I first saw Dick Wolfe, I went to like a Pailey Center thing to watch them all talk. I was shocked when he walked out, and I don't even know what I was anticipating, but it was a real I don't know.

Yeah, I was like, wait, that's that's not what you've looked like in my mind for me however many years. But I will say that Mariska Hargite, I remember doing the going in for the table read of that for that episode, and she came in and she was just like, hey, everybody like you know, went around, hugged everybody's neck around the table, shook my hand, and yes, she was totally different than what I thought what you always see on TV.

Did twenty five? Diseason just started?

Holy Swim.

The premiere was last week and it was a good episode. I would say, yeah.

Now you got good number one energy from Maloney and from Marushka Hargita. What about Vincent Diinofrio from Criminal Intent?

Kara was a page on that set one time.

Yeah, oh you were well, yeah, I mean, I just always remember hearing things about him.

Here's what I remember about Vincent Andafrio. He got a sushi truck in one night, got sushi for everybody.

It was great. And I also was like, you know, I was still I was getting.

The bait, you know, the base rate, and I was about to go on a trip to Italy or something. And he came in in the scene where like I'm dead with blood coming out of the back of my head and we were already at like thirteen fourteen hours something like that, and he came in and he goes, just gonna let everybody know, I don't know any of these lines.

I'm not gonna rush it. We're gonna take our time.

And I was I go, yes, because I was like, I'm gonna get so much.

Over time, and I did, hell yeah.

Then it was it was a long scene.

I bet for that reason he was adored by actors and not as much producers and directors.

Problem.

I love that.

Well.

You mentioned wild number ones and without naming names. What is the craziest thing you've seen where you're like, what is happening?

Be like, we're just here to act. What's going on?

I mean I had one who just straight up left after their coverage and left their double to do my coverage. But I said something to like one of the hair and makeup ladies and they were like, she's crazy. She's like she tried to attack somebody with a pencil in the makeup trailer and she was like, there's nobody on the crew likes her. She just is a total mess. And she hadn't even worked that much. That was the thing.

Stabbing on a set is yeah, a pencil.

So yeah, you don't Yeah, I mean I guess it was a nice weapon, nice rute.

Yeah, it could have been worse. But the hair and makeup people always know everything.

Oh they know.

They're my favorite people, I would say to gossip with.

It is the gossip chain in there, and they see everything. They're the first people I make friends with.

Yeah, and they're the ones that are gonna make you look good, don't piss them off, that's true, or make you impaled with a dear antler, whatever, whatever's happening that day.

Is there anywhere that our listeners can find you, or something coming out that you'd like to tell them about or anything like that.

Yeah, you have like six things on your IMDb coming up. I was wondering if you was anything you wanted to specifically tell people to look out for.

The Big Cigars coming out sometime this year.

I don't know that it was one of those things get pushed because I'm hoping that's going to be a good show. Is fun, There's a lot of fun that one. And then American Rust had a great.

Time on The Big Cigar is Apple TV, Apple Plus Yeah, yeah.

Big Scars, Apple, American Rust. I think is going to Amazon. Okay, yeah, American Rest is going to Amazon. I think it's going to be in.

The spring, really doing cool stuff.

Yeah. I just got this cool I don't know if I can say what it is, but I got this great movie with Judy Greer and Emma Thompson.

Whoa two of my faves.

I was literally like I told my wife, I was like, I don't feel like I should be in their company and she was like, shut up.

Should She seems cool and.

It's kind of a three hander, so it'll be fun.

Thank you so much, Mark for taking the time to talk to us today and connect with a fellow backgammon enthusiast.

Yeah. Yeah, that was.

Pretty impressive of me that I just knew he would like backgammon. I think that's like a pretty psychic.

Moment, a psychic. I was like, where's this gonna go? He might not play backgammon, and then he was like, I just finished play. It was so good.

Listen.

You know people, you're intuitive, You're an unpath.

He's living a good life.

I like, was doing some crowd work and I looked at a guy to like agree or disagree with me, and I go, you know, I chose you because you do look like a Republican and then he goes, I am. I go, yeah, I sends it off of you. I'm like, I'm like, and I knew you would keep me honest because you're you know, you don't like women speaking, and that.

Is why your crowd work is so good, because you, oh, you do notice and sends things about people all the time.

You're like you guys just.

Get engaged and they're like yesterday, You're always like zeroing in on people.

It's so wild, it's so fun.

It's so fun to see everyone out and about and on the flight. I mean this was our first flight booking.

So that was exciting, Yes, booking somebody from Delta.

Amazing.

Good work everybody involved, including comedian Amy Miller post mortem on this episode. The cops are fucked, Like, I don't know, the cops are bad, uh in.

When they're bad, they don't care that they're bad. They're de Lulu, they're just punks.

Yeah, it's so wild to me because like this woman, the one that is Nina from uh Sex and the City, Like you've been in a male dominated field this and that, and you're just like letting men get away with stuff like over a crush.

It's like kind of disappointing. Listen.

You know, we talk about it, the like closeness to power sometimes is more appealing to people than like fighting the good fight or even not caring. But yeah, it's just like common. Yeah, a guy's gal, it's a you know, there's a term for it. She's a guy's gal.

A guy's gal. A picc me girl.

Yes, indeed, you want to be a girl's girl in this world because the men will always handmade.

Tail you you know what I mean.

Like, No, there's not gonna be a situe like ivy, Like the path to our birth control like to our iud is getting ripped out is months away, and it is just like they will not protect you. These men will never have your side. So it's like, why be a guy's goal. He's not even fucking you. It's not like you're even digmatized. Yes, it's so wild, it is wild. I also want to congratulate myself. I did not mention Taylor Swift, so that's congrats until just now. Yeah, So

Why does a scar gel need a fragrance?

No, Maderma doesn't it's supposed to be unscented, I know.

And so I bought this other brand.

We'll see it's scar Away, but I bought a gel, but there's also a patch that stays on for ten days and you know for my lifestyle, that works real great.

Yeah, so we'll.

See, Yeah, love that, but whatever, I just wanted to say, like why, like why is it in such crazy things? But also acab Forever. Sorry I made it about me and the fragrances, but it's just upsetting.

No one's like I love Maderma. It makes me smell like roses. I mean, that's like not the point of Maderma, you know, like it's not.

I just don't get why there's a fragrance. It's so crazy.

But let's chugg along to our what would Sister Peg do our WWSPD for the Week. That's our segment where we point you guys to a organization, a book, an article, something to give you more info about what we talked about today. And this week, we wanted to point out the American Civil Liberties Union, also known as the ACLU, and specifically highlight how they're working to stop systemic problem of police sexual violence and their recommendations for changes that

Thank you so much for that, Karen. I do apologize to the listeners.

I did put some gushers in my mouth as Kara talked, and I need a second and I'm back and next week please watch along as we do the episode cage from season eight, Episode eight, Double eights, Baby my lucky number? Did you used to go eight times eight? Fell on the floor?

Pick it up? It's sixty four? No, yeah, I did that. That's fun. It's fun.

Rate review, subscribe, Let's get to this party.

We'll see you guys next week.

Bye.

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