Institutional Fail w/ Jessica Pimentel

Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done. Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

I'm Liza Traeger.

And I'm Kara Klank, And you know what we do here, guys. We just talk about an SVU episode, We talk about the true crime that was based on and then we interview a fabulous guest. And before that we just kind of check in for a minute. So Lisa ban We bansed our baby. So at this point, we're a little bit of a time machine right now, like we're recording a few days before we normally do. But at this point, Lisa will be returned as a resident of Los Angeles.

We're so excited. I did to welcome you back.

Because I feel like you guys obviously want to talk about Stabler's return and the crossover event and everything. But I will be on a plane, I will be moving. Well we're talking. It's like it's fucked up the time. I don't know how to speak. I feel like I'm gonna do it but I did just do it. You're seeing behind the curtain. We had to do this sooner

I don't understand that. Didn't I pack a printer for you here?

Yeah, but my parents bought me. I can't again, I'm like fourteen, but I got a printer. Ship it. We're scared it's gonna break because my dad, because we're doing the brand shipping. My dad's like, well, can you write fragile? I'm like greyhound, We'll throw it and piss on it. Okay, there's no way it's gonna be taken care of nicely. So now he's scared the printer is gonna be destroyed,

My mom used to pick a fight with me anytime I was going away, like if I was going away to college, or I was going away for camp for the summer, or like even for like a long trip. We would always get into a fight right before does your parents do your mom? Does your mom do that?

Well?

You know why. It's because she loves you but can't express it. Yeah, she just turned down.

You would always just get into a fight, like right before a big trip.

Now, the amount that parents love their children is truly sickening. Get a life, guys, got a hobby. Parents are so desperate.

I mean yeah, I.

Literally my toddler pooped in her bathing soup bottom yesterday and I cleaned it up with not even a wine.

You know, it's like we love them so much. Well, so obviously the news of the world is little nas xworking on the devil.

I love it.

And at this point I hope people are still talking about it. I know it'll be next week. But it's it's my favorite thing. I haven't even watched the video yet, Lisa, and I'm so on Little naz X's side.

It's crazy, like, oh no, I love them, but it reminded me because everyone's like the children, the children. And our friend Solomon Georgio had an amazing tweet.

He goes, we.

Don't care about your ugly ass children. Shut up, we don't.

Care, and my friend wrote and goes, when did it become Cardi b and Megan is Stallion and Little naz X's job to raise your kid?

Like what are you talking about? Like, also, priests rape children, so go away with your religious nonsense. Is this too much for an intro?

I think so maybe, But I also agree like with your tweet that you had where you were like, I just adult people believing in the devil is just so like. Also on Real Housewives this week, I know it's a franchise you don't watch, but there was a franchise on Dallas.

One of the they did like a shaman thing. They had like a shaman knight, and.

One of the women was like that kind of made me upset because you're not supposed to turn to anyone except for Jesus, and that lets the devil in.

When you do things like that, that lets the devil.

I'm like, I just hadn't heard like an adult person reference the Devil as an imminent threat in like a long time, Like I just didn't think that was a thing.

No, it's pretty embarrassing. I keep laughing at myself, just being like if I was someone that was like the Devil, I don't know.

I don't just stand it at all.

And then people are like, and he's promoting Satanism with his Devil shoes and it's like and then someone posted this YouTuber I follow is like, Nike is supporting Satan, how dare they? And Miley Cyrus is wearing the Satan shoes and you guys are You're still so ignorant to the fact that Hollywood's run by Satan. I'm like, none of us take it seriously. Yeah, it's just su cool.

I couldn't even get Ivy park pants. I mean, I can't imagine the Satan shoes.

Shit. No, I want to tell far Bag too. I just I'm good at concert tickets. I've definitely spent a lot of my time on Ticketmaster apps, calling on the website. I got a Dell tickets. It took me an hour and a half, but I did it, like I am going to concert tickets. I got Gaga tickets, old fashioned ticket Master way, but the drops on fashion. I haven't honed in on that skill yet. But I love him. The whole thing is like religious people said gay people are going to hell. He's like, fine, I'll go to

You don't, bitches, It's not my fault you showed it to your children.

But also children don't get it. Like I watched The Simpsons as a kid, and I didn't get most of the jokes till I was older.

These are the same people that are like letting their kids like TWRK to fully dirty songs on TikTok, and they're like, isn't that cute? Or like half the songs that kids dance to and dance competitions are like filthy

Also, the name Tipper is out of control. I don't understand that. But I think we're skipping over the most important point, which is like all my queer ass friends are like if I had this as a teen, it would have changed my life.

Yes, it's fully homophobic.

I think the panic too because the people were talking about how other rap groups have talked about the Devil before and Satan and other. A ton of other people have done stuff like that and no one cares.

But because it's like this black gay man, that's a problem, you know, It's just never happened. I can't think of a gay pop man star in heels twerk like in my life.

So twerking on the lap of the devil. I think he was counting on that that you'd never seen that before.

Being of TikTok. I don't know if you saw this, but I guess a popular TikToker was on Jimmy Fallon do all the famous kiktok dances, and there was a tweet and it's like I didn't realize this because the TikTok dances look so stupid, but they're originated by black young people that are amazing.

Who are so good, and then like white girls do the slowed down like like completely robotic version of it, and that's like the stuff that goes like viral.

I didn't know. I'm an idiot. And then someone tweeted, this is the legit movie bring it On. Yeah, like this is bring it On? And I was watching all the black people do the dances, and I was like, oh, this is fucking cool, Like how are these basic bees on television. I mean, I don't want to be mad at teenagers, but yeah, it's so fucked up. I don't know, but all thrilling, TikTok you.

I've become very into YouTube. I know, Liza, I'm worried about you. You're buying merch You're buying coffee from YouTubers, like, I don't know what's going on.

I am gonna buy I'm a Chamberlain coffee, but I'm obsessed with them a Chamberlain.

But now it's gone. I watch Inked.

It's like a tattoo magazine. I've watched hours it's just tattoo artists making fun jokes. And I've and then I've been watching like Harper's Bizarre What I Eat in a Day and it's celebrities talking about what they eat. And then I started watching nutritionists watch with the celebrities eating a day and then judge them. And I don't even watch Netflix and nothing. I'm just like Svu and you Tube all day every day. It's never enough content. I'm just like waiting for Tricksy to put out a new

Wow, and she's twenty. She's nineteen. She wanted to clarify for everybody she's nineteen.

But like she was like, look, I got birkenstocks, and I was like, oh my god, I have birkenstocks in my storage. I can't wait to wear my birkenstocks again. I don't know.

I'm susceptible to marketing.

Maybe maybe if I was a kid, I would become into Satan honestly, Like, yeah, I am blinded by marketing. I'm a merch whore.

I don't know.

I'm basic, Like I think I just like things because people are selling them to me. I do want to say that before I leave. My family did find a new game. Oh, I'm bringing back Gammon to La. My dad gifted me a little sit you teach play. I don't know how to play Backgammon. I think you're gonna love it. We're gonna have fun. But then we started playing Rummy Cube, which yeah, I don't know who plays Rummy Cube. And then we played with my sister and the girl masks and she's good and we.

Learned a lot from her. She's been playing for a while.

But I got a message from someone saying that lots of people are regressing to their teenage self since we're all moving in back with their parents. Like it's not just me screaming at my mother that everyone is just regressing to their twin bed life, bad behaviors, bad communication.

And that's okay. We're all going to get out of it at some point. We're all going to graduate back into queen beds and full beds and everything's gonna be fine.

Are you gonna put my bed together? Bt?

Dubs?

I mean, if you're asking me if it's the first time I've put a bed frame together seven and a half months pregnant.

The answer is absolutely not. I've done it before and I will do it again.

That's like I was scared of, but I think I have.

I think like I'll be over there with my twenty dollars Ikia drill ooh.

It is it's gonna be an ikea bed. Yeah, all right, this is this turned into a text message at the end. We really came in strong with opinions and we're ending with just the message at the end.

I love it.

Okay, let's get into our episode. We have a really great one today, so let's jump right in.

So this is institutional fail. It's season seventeen, and then according to Hulu and lots of sources, it's episode three, and then if you go somewhere else on the internet, it's episode four.

I think it's episode four.

I think Hulu puts together episode sometimes, like they'll put together like episodes that are like to be continued episodes, when really they're their own episodes.

So I think it's actually episode four.

That's according to this sview fandom, and I feel like that should be our kind of bible, because people in the UK are listening, they don't have Hulu. You know, I don't know for sure, and we have personally found multiple mistakes in IMDb, so I don't know.

If that makes us better than everyone. But okay, we're going to get into this episode. It's pretty heartbreaking, one of the saddest. I don't even know how to pick which one's sad, and they're all sad, but whatever hurts.

Your heart, you know.

So it starts with a super little cute boy. He's so cute.

I like needed to not cast a boy that was this cute. It was too heartbreaking. He was so cute, and.

He's on the chair and his kitchen and he's looking for food to eat and there's just nothing. There's no food, and so he unlocks the front door and starts walking down the hallway of this building. It's a giant apartment building. People are selling drugs outside, it's bustling, it's nighttime, and this little angel is just walking trying to find food. And he goes to bodega. And this made me miss

Okay, So.

He goes and he has some coins, which I was shocked by. But he had money. Yeah, but he he buys like snowballs, the pink snowballs, it looks like, which is a perfect kid snack.

It's like, yeah, I'll take the pink.

I was about to say pink fuzzy ball, but that sounds disgusting, not delicious. And the bodega guy, obviously is like, whoa bro, Where's where's your mom? And cut to William Dodds and I think I might be calling him Gallagher throughout this episode, So if you hear Gallagher, I'm talking about William Dodds eyebrow, yes, who we have previously referred to as the biggest eyebrow guy in Hollywood, which I think he is. But then some people did point out to us Eugene and Dan Levy are also heavy into

Go on.

Okay, So William is walking out with our queen Marishka and she's wearing a black dress, and you know, if she's at a function and she's in a gown, shit's about to go down.

Okay, they like, yeah, they're never just going to show Olivia like going home and like tucking into bed.

After a nice night out.

That's never gonna happen. No, she's going to a crime scene in a gown, and that is That's exactly what happens. So I see he's already at the bodega and we have a former guest, William Scott Winter's officer.

Doom is there.

Yes, So that was really thrilling to see. And he's of course like missing kid. I don't need this. Get the sex police over here. So I sees at the bodega and Benson shows up and we're at the credits. We're like, we need to find what's up with this child and what's going to happen. So after the credits, we are with Benson and the kid and she's doing her kid voice, like, oh, it's you know, playing games to get information.

I don't want to.

I was about to do an impression, but then I remember not very good at those. So she's playing psychology games with the kid. We do find out his name is Bruno. I love that name. The doctor, doctor Darby Wilder, who's one of the most beautiful women in the world. She informs Benson this is a neglected kid. He has cavities, he's dirty, he's not being taken care of. And the Doctor's like, I need to talk to these parents, and Benson's like, get in line, bitch, on the talk to

You were doing errands, so right, but I wasn't at a crime scene.

No, I wasn't.

Like you gotta let me tail this suspect, Like, I mean, she really is like a little bit of overachiever.

Yeah, And so Benson's like, sit your ass down and call the food stamps people and figure something out. You're you're not coming with us. Benson and Creesy go to social Services and we see one of the biggest stars of our lifetime, Whoopy Goldberg.

Huge, huge influence on me, huge person I've been obsessed.

With since childhood. Love Love Love. What was your movie growing up? My movie?

I mean probably sister act. Yeah, same, But like I loved her in so many things.

I just thought she was great.

Well, the thing is to my uncle was a really small part in this movie with her in jumpin Jack Flash. So I just like would watch that movie even though it was like it was like a little too scary for me to watch, but I'd be like, Whoopy Goldberg, and like, I just loved her always. I've met her a couple of times too. And yeah, I've met her a couple of times. I think I've met her three.

Times, and every time I always, I mean I obviously.

I'm like remember me, like I was kind of teller.

I mean I met her working on a couple of projects in New York and then she was.

On Drag Race.

And yeah, I don't know if people know this, this is an interesting fact. Abou would be Goldberg and maybe it's made up, but this is what I heard. She when she was a young kid, she witnessed a plane fall out of the sky. She basically saw a plane crash, so she does not fly. So when she did Drag Race, she literally took a bus, like I mean a tour

She had to hug everybody. Yeah, is that what happens? She was hugging everybody and then this is really embarrassing. But I'm obsessed with the movie rat Race. Oh okay, my favorite.

Is making a set and making a face to us, like we watch it every Christmas.

Now.

My dad is obsessed with Amy Smart. I love brecken Meyer.

It is the funniest movie. John Lovetz is incredible.

I also just have to say the who people birthing is true?

Is there a part of rat Race where they go it is a race?

And I am for the way, Yes, that is mister bean.

Okay, my friend and I used to always say that.

But I never seen the movie. I thought Hannah was giving this emotion like wrap it up bitches. We have an episode to cover, but instead more rat race material, which is shocking and exciting.

This is how we know we have the right producer for our show.

I also can't believe it's a Christmas holiday movie and there's great Nazi jokes, which is okay, now I'm telling you to wrap it up, let's go. But seeing Whoopy Goldberg INNSVU is it's amazing, you know, it's huge make stars. It's a lot of people before they're famous, a lot of people during their years of famous, but like to have whoopee is it's exciting.

I think every season they try to get a few jewel names, like they try to get a few big names to kind of like be the jewel in the crown of the season, and Whoopy is for sure that for this season.

Yeah. So she's working at Child Services and we also meet Keith, who is the caseworker, and when asked about Bruno, he's like, ah, what, I don't know.

So that's not a good sign.

Okay, we all know Child Protective Services their overworks, too many caseloads, not enough funding. This is a tale is old at this time and Keith is played by John Macgaro, who I'm obsessed with, and he was in Orange is the New Black as one of the husbands, and he's just a really good act and.

He's in Penn fifteen. Oh yeah, this is star studded. So we get a last name.

Bruno is Zuno and Keith says he's like, yeah, I was there a couple of weeks ago. The kids looks fine and they're like, kids, excuse me. So they have to go to the building immediately because where what is this other child? And the elevator is broken. They have to walk up the stairs of this giant building. It's super hot, but Benson's in a jacket. It's very confusing, very old Augusto Sage County vibes, where it's like, take your coat off if it's so hot, Julia Roberts, just

If needs it's hard, okay.

Benson during the interrogation, she knocks on the window and the detectives go and meet her in the little spy room and Keisha has died. So now this mother is going down for murder. But she's so high she doesn't even understand what's going on. Benson and Rollins now are with Barba, and Barba's like, so, what's going on with child services?

Whose fault is it? What's going on?

The news is pissed, like there's just a lot of emotions and they're trying to figure shit out. So Rollin's and Benson are talking to Barba and they're like, we need to fucking take down Child Services.

They're not doing their job.

If they did their job, they would see Keisha was in a fucking cagun starving. No one has visited these children in forever. And Barbara, who everyone is horny for, is like, get over your emotions in this maternal outrage. I need some evidence, relaxed ladies. So the suspender man, it's.

A very big relax ladies. Or I mean, yeah, he's he's evidence based.

I get that, but he's.

Not being very empathetic.

No. And also, you know, just emotions are valid, and the patriarchy has told us they're not valid and we shouldn't listen to them, but they are very real. And if our body has emotions, it's because we want to shut up.

Okay.

So we're back with whoopee yay at Child Services and Keith is there and they're figuring stuff out and the Deputy commissioner walks into the meeting and he looks like a child pretending to be a grown man. That's his face. It's like, why is this child face on this grown man body. That's the vibe I get from the Deputy Commissioner and they and he says, listen, you need a subpoena. What are you? What are you fucking doing here? And

Why all this What is this?

Like months and months of reports have been submitted the day that this girl has passed. This little girl has passed away. So that's suspicious, right.

Yeah, So Barbara raises his eyebrows in a very sassy manner, and so he, you know, he's tipped off by this fucked up paperwork, and so he's gonna go meet Dodds and figure stuff out. And Dodds, he you know, this is a classic character. It's just like always wants to make things difficult. And so now Barbara and Benson have to convince him and Josh Paus, who is Hank Abraham, who's in charge of some cop stuff. I mean, I don't even know all these commissioners. There are so many

He's like higher up and Social Services is under his purview, and he obviously does not want this getting out that Social Services has like mass erosion to it as a system.

You know.

Yeah, it's all about the bad press and it doesn't matter that children are dead and being abused. It's like, I don't want this on the news, you know, I'm trying to trying to have a political career, and so Eyebrows and Josh Peius Hank Abraham tell them you can't investigate it.

Stop it.

I'm telling you you need to stop it. And then this is like one of my favorite moments of the episode. Benson and Barbara outside and she's like, oh, this sucks, and he goes, I don't work for them, I work for the DA's office. So Barbara switch, you know, being a dick about the emotions. He's won our hearse once again, and he's like, I'm going to take over.

I don't answer to nobody.

So that's really exciting Barbara does a press conference and he lets the world know exactly what is happening. Cut to Keith and he's putting flowers on Keisha's memorial outside of her home, and Careesy has to arrest him, and Iisen Rollins and the team are like arresting the deputy commissioner in Whoopi Goldberg and taking all the laptops and files from the Child Protective Services and they're charged for

So they're going to rikers.

Barba, Hank and Marishka and Rawlins are outside and He's like, I told you to stop, and Barbara is like shut up, and so they have a nice little thing. But then Hank calls Barbara poppy, which is this racist? It might be I don't know, is this a slur?

It seems like a weird thing for like, yeah, white guy to say to a Latino guy.

I don't know, Raphael, you know, don't. The only poppy that's appropriate is Britney spears a song from the album's circus. That's the only time whites can say poppy, I think, or I mean, I guess since six.

Okay.

So at the hospital, Manuela's handcuffed to a bed and as asking Rollins, like, can you please get the judge to release me to go to Keisha's funeral?

So this is fucking dark.

I mean, she's so now, she's not been able to get drugs, and so I think everything is like hitting her. She's handcuffed to this bed, her daughter's dead. This is just fucking dark. And Rollins wants to know how did it get this bad? What fucking happened? And she explains she was sober, she was doing good. And then of course a man, of course, her ex, who is Bruno's father, not Keisha's, got back out of jail and they started partying and doing drugs, and she's like, but we weren't junkies,

And god, this is bad.

So Felipe got shot fourth of July weekend and that like broke her world apart. So that's when she relapsed again and just became a fledged drug addict. Was after this guy got shot. Now Keith is in jail as well. That's the child services guy. He's in an orange suit, and the lawyer is annoying. This is one of those situations where the lawyer's protecting the child services and the people at large and not really looking out for the guy.

So the lawyers we know not to trust him.

And Careese straight up is like, yo, you're the lowest man on the totem pole. This is a union lawyer, so you need to watch out for yourself because they're gonna blame you. Like Caresee's always looking out for everybody. He's an angel among us. So Dodds and Abraham are like, back down, back down. You don't have a political bone in your body, and it's like, yeah, that's a good thing for a sex crimes detective. Okay, we don't need politics with the rape police.

Okay.

Yeah, So this is Meanwhile, like I.

Think, like some of the stakes here are supposed to be that Olivia is up for lieutenant. Like they mentioned at the very very beginning of the episode that like, uh, he looks like lieutenant might be right around the corner, you know, So like it's supposed to be, like they think, sort of threatening her to back down, that she'll be the kind of person that goes, Okay, I'll back down because I want this promotion.

And that's just not Olivia Benson. No, she has put herself into multiple hostage situations to save a person.

Yeah, bitch, don't give a shit about a promotion. Plus, she has a nice apartment.

She does have a nice apartment.

Carisee's little speech to Keith worked, so Keith wants to talk to Carisy and he explains that Whoopy Goldberg, that not Whoopie but her character who I don't remember because her name's fucking Whoopy Goldberg. I'm talking about Whoopie. I just don't need any sound bites coming out of this. But she told Keith stop coddling the clients. This is casework,

And Ice is ice.

Cold in this scene. I really like this scene. And she's flipping out about Bruno and Ice. He says he's been placed in a great family and hopefully when he gets older, he'll forget all of this and you, I don't know if we've ever seen ice this cold, right like maybe to like full blown hoodlums, but this moment was you see the little heart in iced tea in finn because to be like, I hope this kid never fucking remembers you. That's harsh, that's really but she killed her,

Such a good actress.

It's like, because the whole episode I was wondering, like this is such a small part, Like why is Whoopee here?

Like what did what's happening here?

She's got to do.

The view, baby, She's got to the view. She can't do full shooting days. She's just doing She's doing what she can. Yeah, And it's like the whole episode, I'm like, what's what's happening?

What's happening?

And this is where you're like, no one else could fucking do this but will be Goldberg but one of the greatest actresses of our time.

Like she takes the stand.

It's this blank stare, but it says so much so it's like in the distance, not caring, but beat down, but there's something happening in her brain.

It's just like such a powerful performance.

And Whoopee finally breaks and she goes, I didn't want any of this, And he says, what, you didn't want to advance your career by ignoring child death and pain or you didn't want to get caught and she says, God himself could not do this job and these like and she goes into this whole thing about how like these children are raised by wolves, it's the drudges of society. This is the worst thing ever. They come to you as criminals, and then what the fuck do you do

He's going to do a year.

And then an outside board is going to calm help restructure stuff because Keith's already in prison. He like testified, you know, so I don't have any updates on him here, Okay, So then Dodds is doing a little game with Benson at the end and she doesn't care, like, shut up, Dods, just be real with her.

It's like, you're so annoying.

But the SVU detectives broke a giant situation, something that has been fucked up for decades in the city, but SVU will always get to the bottom of it. So hopefully some great changes will happen with Child Protective Services. And then Dodds tells Benson at the end, like you're a lieutenant now, but we're going to need a sergeant and we have a great replacement. She goes, great, when

Well it's also like it's also like the episode starts out with Dodds and Benson being like all chummy, and you're like, oh, this is like he's really changed, because like he was really kind of evil in some of the earlier episodes and you're like, oh, I guess he's like a good guy now, and then at the end it's like, no, he's still just like a dick that's going to make Olivia do whatever he wants because he has power.

Over her in their jobs. And then the episode ends with Rollin's rubbing her pregnant belly and sighing heavily.

With the way to the world.

I think that that's like the show sort of like dramatically sort of tossing to like motherhood and like what is it? What are the implications of like bringing a child into this world? And is everybody ready for it? And a lot of people aren't. And these are the people that are. You see their children in acs and you know, that's what I got from the belly rub. But maybe I'm reading too far into it.

Oh that's exactly it.

Of course, it's you know, an illusion now not what is a metaphor a metaphors but yeah, so it ends on a pregnant belly.

Reb Yeah, it's a pretty like it's a tough episode because it's like the show is attempting to tackle a super enormous issue in most major cities, not just New York with with you know, child services and stuff like that. That just the like the problems in these systems, and you know they have to do it in forty three minutes or whatever.

So it's kind of it's ambitious and what Pie Goldberg should have won an Emmy for this. Did she not?

I don't know. Oh, I don't know.

I feel we would have known if she did. But she did not win an Emmy for this, Just so you know, yeah, I mean, even though she did not win an Emmy for this, she is an egot, baby, Yes, not a lot of those out there. It's true.

I can only think of like her and John Legend and John Legends and he got yeah, he just became an egot recently.

Oh oh my god, I mean he's perfect.

All right, Let's take a quick break and when we come back, get ready to get sad.

Okay, we are back back back again.

And the sad thing about this episode is that it could probably be based on a few cases, but it is widely thought to be based on the case of nicks Mary Brown, who was a seven year old girl and the longtime victim of child abuse who was ultimately murdered by her stepfather. So I'll just give this is

I don't really care. I don't really think any of that matters.

But she was definitely given the opposite of preferential treatment. She was like, she was definitely sort of targeted by her stepfather. And on January tenth, two thousand and six, Ni Salise, the mother went upstairs to her neighbor and told her that her daughter, Nix Maury, had drowned. And so when the neighbor, whose name was Olbis Rivera, arrived at the apartment, she was shocked and truly traumatized by what she saw. She saw seven year old Nick Murray,

This is just like all really really horrible. It's torture. It's like full blown torture.

Yeah, and it's really gross that they the stepfather always insisted she was this troublemaker who stole food and broke her siblings toys and stuff, and it's like I don't care what she does, Like no child deserves this kind of treatment. So ultimately, the medical examiner determined that she was killed by a fatal bloat to the head two days before she actually died, so she had a subdural hematoma, and that emmy said she died of child abuse syndrome.

So this was like long a long time coming.

So the mother apparently, well, I learned later, after her daughter is beaten and left there, she bathed her, she tried to get her warm, she apparently did some things and then put her to bed. But the child did die and was apparently gasping for air. It was like a horrible, horrible, horrible end that this poor angel had to go through. And the mother, once she was dead, calmly goes upstairs tells her neighbor RIVERA, my daughter drowned.

I need to call nine one one.

The neighbor calls nine one one, and Rivera testified that Nick Salice was completely calm, but the minute she got on the phone with a nine to one one call, the mom started wailing and moaning and going on and on, and then when they hung up, it completely stopped and she was calm again. So she testified that she believed the crying was fake and that the grieving and all this emotional, this, all this emotion was fake.

What's strange is why would you get the neighbor to watch you lie to the police.

I think she had to borrow the neighbor's phone to call nine one one.

Got it.

So Rivera's testimony ended up being crucial, improving that Nick Marie's mother did nothing to help her, like she was sitting there for a prolonged period of time meeting assistance and her mother did nothing and honestly waited until she was dead to call nine one one.

Obviously, they go to trial.

At trial, Rodriguez, the stepfather, tries to pin the whole murder on the mother, says she did it basically.

Even though he had it's to beating her.

He I sort of tried to make it seem like the mother dealt the death blow, even though there's like no evidence for that. And it was revealed a trial that he routinely had beaten her, he had routinely he had molested her, he had locked her in this dirty room, like we discussed again, and this is such a fucked up detail. But at trial they showed the jury photos of the fridge and it was stocked. This is what's

That he was an Okay, dude, are you kidding me?

That's like, I mean, I feel bad laughing, but that is no.

I know, I'm trying to bring a little bit of levity to like maybe one of the worst cases I've read about.

You know, it's like a Simpson's story, like exactly, It's like in.

The office he has world's best boss.

Mug and he's the worst boss.

Like it's just crazy.

So the jury was shown.

Also a horrific detail was they were shown a tape of Rodriguez and Santiago at Target the night before she Nick Murray died with all of their other children besides Nick Murray, because they obviously couldn't bring her out because she had already been beaten so badly. And they're taking out buying the other five kids sweets, toys, d Brat's dolls like all this wait, sorry, they're just called brad Stalls.

I just wonder what the other kids thought and It's like I would never blame the other children for not doing something about it, but like I am curious what they were thinking.

I think that in those kind of situations, those kids are like, as long as it's not me, I mean, don't I think that, like you literally get you have to build up like a protective barrier with this trauma that you have and say, well, if she's getting hit, I'm not getting hit.

Like it's just terrible.

But I'm not a psychologist, and I don't think any of the kids. I think maybe the oldest was fifteen or something or and I'm not even positive about that timeline because I read an article about the fifteen year old having to get therapy because the father forced him to do some weird sex.

Well, I was about to say, even if it wasn't as bad as Nick Marie, I'm sure that he abused the children.

Yes, I'm sure he abused the other children, but it was actually really difficult to find any evidence of it, or like it wasn't reported on. Everybody was really focusing on her, like this case rocked New York. Like I lived in New York when this case came out.

I remember her name. I remember reading about it, like it was really, really horrible. I really like that you are boots on the ground of a lot of New York crimes.

And I was reading the free paper every morning, so I was getting a lot of you know, horrible, horrible brief reporting on a lot of bad crimes. In the spring of two thousand and eight, Rodriguez was convicted. He was sentenced to twenty six and a third years to twenty nine years in prison. So he was given twenty five years for first degree manslaughter and one and a

Yeah, if you know this woman, please send us a DM or an email. We would love a little lunch date.

We will send her very merch. I would love to send her free merch for yelling out murderer. So this is a kind of a crazy twist in this case too, is like, so Santiago and Rodriguez had separate trials, so the Santiago is the mother. She is described in one article I read as slow witted, like she really had sort of a tough life. She had four kids by the time. She was twenty two and was living in a shelter when she met Rodriguez and they got married.

Like?

And so I don't think the mother is fully innocent here at all. And her lawyer did try to, you know, present that she ministered to her daughter, put her in a warm bath after this beating, gave her water, like, dressed her like, put her near to bed near the radiator so she could warm up. I don't really I

Verdict that Rodriguez received.

So she was acquitted of secondary murder because she was previously convicted of four lesser crimes, assault for binding the daughter with a bungee cord, giving her a black eye, unlawful imprisonment, and endangering her welfare. Santiago was sentenced to forty three years in prison, So while her husband got max twenty nine for actually committing the murder, she got

I don't think.

I don't know, But her reaction after her daughter died also is suspect.

But there's speculation that she had, you know, cognitive issues, cognitive issues exactly, developmental issues, et cetera. So the real connection to this case is and the episode is that it shone a huge spotlight on the New York City Administration for Children's Services ACS and their failure to handle

ACS has said that they tried to access the.

Home several times and Rodriguez always blocked their entry, and that there was a time where she had to get stitches and he brought her to the hospital, and when Social Services met her at the hospital, he swore at her and ended the conversation, and so he obviously knew he was committing crimes and was trying to keep the I wish that they had been able to pile more charges against him, like endangering the other children or you know.

Yeah, it's like I obviously am always pissed about sexism everywhere, but in this case, I'm not even I'm like, yeah, put her in jail.

I don't give a fuck, Like.

It is weird that I want her in jail, But you don't think it's like a little crazy that she's serving fourteen more years than her husband.

No, that's what I was gonna say, Like, I don't want her serving less time, I want him serving more time.

Yes, that's if he's in jail forty three years, he doesn't get out until he's in his seventies.

And I think that's great, you know, because he also like sexually abused her, Like yeah, more charging.

I think that, like, yeah, I don't know if those were like not provable or what, but it's really horrible. But much like in the episode, there was a report that they had visited the home.

Everyone looked good, there was plenty of food.

Toys, and meanwhile Nicks Marie was twenty pounds underweight, had missed forty six days of school and had showed up to.

School with welts and cuts and bruises.

So I don't really know where the disconnect is of like, I don't really care that there's a bunch of Tonka trucks around, like look at the child, like she does not look healthy. So the media came after ACS very hard,

Yeah, Like, if someone's refusing you access, that's more evidence to fucking go into that home.

Right exactly.

And school officials will have more license to alert authorities when a student has too many unexplained absences. So by March of two thousand and eight, which this case, like was from two thousand and six to two thousand and eight, this case was constantly in the media and ACS launched a one million dollar recruitment drive for new welfare caseworkers. They had a lot of applications, but retention was really

If anything good came out of this.

Horrific, horrific ordeal that this poor little girl had to go through. It was Nick Murray's Law, which was proposed in two thousand and six by a New York State senator, and the law was designed to deter or prevent child abuse related crimes by charging parents connected to the crime of the death of their children with first degree murder. So the maximum punishment in New York would be twenty five years to life in prison. I don't know how

So since the passage.

Of the law, reports to the New York States Child Abuse Hotline have increased, so at least there's become hopefully you know, and honestly, since it's happened, there have been several other high profile cases where children have died in acs custody and it is a broken system, but we need to fix it because we just can't have kids falling through the cracks like this.

It's just too sad. And do we have any information on what happened to the other children or is that all super private? They were all moved to foster care. Yeah, and then that makes me wonder, like what is their future going to be like and what they saw in the home and is you know, is that just going to be a fucking cycle with them in this broken system again. Yeah.

So anyway, very intense episode, very intense true crime. And you know, I just hope that there have been some changes at least to the acs where there are at least where people are not trying to cover up their visits and get paperwork done and fill quotas, because just this isn't the kind.

Of and I think a lot of people go into case work, have big hearts and want to do this work and then I'm sure very quickly it fucking breaks you seeing all these grafic things in and out, and then you're not compensated in any way.

It's like.

Yeah, and I mean the faster here system is also like extremely biased against families of color, and it's that's another issue as well, Like it's something like four times more children get removed from their parents from families of color. And I just think that I work for this organization that I'll talk more about later in the episode. But I was trained in sort of like trying to recognize biases when you're in homes of like what what is

What's going on.

In Native American cultures, it's disrespectful to look an adult in the eye. So you know, you have to go in knowing that there's all these different cultures to consider, and there's all these biases that both state employees and volunteers and all different people have when they're going in to like observe how a family lives in their own home. That's an example, But you know there's certain, there's just ways in which I think social workers can sometimes judge

Well, I there's no pressure to represent the entire continent.

Then I have to be honest.

And I know this is crazy and I know it's all acting, but because of your Orange character, I was so intimidated and scared to talk to you. I was like kind of panicked. And right away you're just like so kind and great and I know it's all make believe, but yeah, I was very nervous.

You know, why would you be scared of Maria? I think she's she is, she's great, she's awesome. She's misunderstood a bit, she's been through some shit and uh, you know she's in jail. What the fuck? Sorry for my part of my French. You know, it's a rough life, man. I don't blame her for some of the things that she's done.

Well, we definitely want to talk to you about Orange, but let's just like really quickly kick off with some SVU questions.

So our first.

Question is tell us about working with Bruno.

That little kid was so cute, the one that played your little son.

Oh my god, that little boy as cute as he looked in the TV show. No, this is good. He's a thousand times cuter in real life. I'm sorry, No, no, no, the nightmare. No, he was actually the sweetest. He was so shy, and he was so tiny and skinny like and he was so and he played so well. It was like did I do a cut? Like? He was so sweet.

My god, it was like too much.

I thought they they've done it too, it's too cute, Like you gotta find a less cute kid.

This kid's breaking my heart.

But that's the whole point. I mean, how could you not like watch that little boy and not be totally heartbroken? And he was just like that, and he was wonderful to work with. He was so like well behaved. He wasn't a brat like a lot of our A lot of our movie kids can be brats sometimes. I have had like a hundred movie kids at this point in my life, and they're not all easy to work with, you know, But this kid was a dream. He was sweet and lovely.

Okay, a plus for Bruno.

I love it well. And then that scene with the you getting to visit Bruno iced Tea is harsh with you. I've never seen him be this straightforward and mean to somebody before. It was like a wild scene. I don't know if there's a question, how was it acting with him?

ICE's ice And I think that's really I had done scenes with him before in a previous you know, one of my other previous hooker roles, and he was great. He's really personable. He's great to work with.

But it was that.

Particular episode that we became friends. Koca was there too, she's amazing. Their daughter's amazing. I mean, this family, they're all great. But I it's very professional. He's very easy to work with. He loves to play around, play with acting, you know, as we're doing a scene and we had too, like he chewed me out a couple of times in that episode. Man, I got like, people are taking this thing personally. I think, I don't know, but.

It's one of the more heartbreaking episodes.

It is really sad, but I mean everyone gives such great speeches about just how the system is overrun and overcrowded, and like whoopee Goldberg's big monologue there. It made me think about my mom a loge as my mom worked

Really well well done, well made for sure.

I mean, you're from New York and I was living in New York at the time of the case that this was based on, the Nick Murray Brown case.

Do you remember that?

Like, uh huh, yeah, I was gonna say it was so pervasive, Like I just feel like anybody that lived in New York at that time, like would remember that.

Absolutely. That's one of those stories that you hear on the news and you just weep, you know, because it's just so tragic, and you know that there were hundreds of people that would have taken her in or wanted to help, or or just people that can't imagine that this happens down the street, down the block and your neighborhood could be a kid that you see all the time and then one day you don't see them anymore. I mean, it's really heartbreaking. I think they did a

You know, right right?

What did they do for hair and makeup?

For you.

You were like so sweast, sweaty, and the hair was stiff, like what did they put on.

You when they first find you? You're real, like you're real sweat. It's like a very slick layer.

It's just straight grease. Man. It was gross. It was so gross. And I remember the costume and the makeup people. We hadn't had a meeting before, and I really I feel like that first scene you see me was the first scene we did, and the costumely is like, but she looks so healthy, like, how are we going? She was like, oh no, we really screwed up here, like we got she looks nice, like she looks good, and they're like, don't you worry? And that those hair and

Yeah, because you have great teeth, and you got to make it look like you've been that you've been using for a while so that's not that's not an easy can't just have you show up with those pearly whites.

Acting like a like a drug user, right.

So they they really cooked up those teeth. It was totally crazy. And it's so funny because my brother and his wife my sister in law were watching me shoot that scene and he was like still he got like upset. He's like, oh my god, oh my, Like you don't want to see someone you love like all messed up like that, you know. And they were they were watching this and they just couldn't believe that that change how

Oh okay.

And at one point, you know, they were setting up a camera shot and I was sitting outside. We were like in uptown New York and I'm sitting down on the sidewalk and someone actually gave me money.

That's awesome.

Cameras like because the cameras were pretty far away and the lighting you know, we were doing a night shot, so there was like no real lighting up yet because we're waiting for the sun to set. And someone just like felt sorry for the people were looking at me like oh disgusting, like pulling their kids away from me. You know, it was insane.

It was so wow.

That just shows the hair and makeups did a really good job.

But we did a great job.

It made you look the part.

So because you've been doing like so many law and orders and stuff, like when you ended up doing this role, like they just call you in and say we have this part for you?

Or do they do you audition every time? Or like, how does it work?

I auditioned for it. I think it's still uh good to audition for sometimes because sometimes you think like an actor might be the perfect for that role, the perfect person for that role, but then they come in and something's not quite right. So they did call me into audition, but maybe the list is a little shorter, you know. Sometimes.

I remember when I was auditioning in New York for commercials. I would be in there with like sometimes like Boo from Orangees and New Black would be in with me, or.

Like someone else. I'd be like, well, why am I here? Why am I here?

You never know they're going to pick these amazing actors.

Well, so over thirty five Oranges, the New Black people have been on SVU have you seen any of.

Your pals, like, like, have you chatted about it?

Of course? Listen, Law and Order is a rite of passage for every New York actor. It's like not official until you get that that ton ton money. You're like, yes, you have to do one, you know, and if you can do more, that's awesome. It's kind of like just always kind of grounding work. It always brings you back to your humble beginnings so to speak. You know.

So, I guess by the time you had done like this episode of SVU two, you'd already been on the Law and Order set like a bunch of times. But like, how do you find the set there? Like everybody tells us it's like a well oiled machine that everybody's like so pro. I mean, I'm sure it's like, did you have any like specific thoughts about like working on that set.

No, everyone is pro and they crank these out so they know what they're doing, they know how to do it. They get it done. You know. The only thing that we had a little setback with was so now it's the juicy part. Our lovely Miss Hargitay went to the MTV Music Awards on a Sunday night and she was supposed to shoot Monday morning.

Oops, was this during the Taylor Swift time?

It was exactly that. Oh my gosh. So as we can see, she had a lot of fun and I think she missed her plane. I'm not sure if she missed her plane or forgot or didn't want to take the plane, but we had to move some things around that day.

I love it, but.

I mean, you know, that's life. She does this so many of them, you know, like let her live.

I know exactly.

It's like how they once in a while let her wear a cocktail dress on the show. We're like, look live. She's been in four hundred and seventy five plus episodes of this show.

She's given her whole life to that show. Let her live. But I mean they were they were so quick to just figure out how to make things work without her there that it wasn't even an issue. But she had a great time.

That amazing. So let me ask you about let's ask I can't. I mean, we were both like huge oranges and new Black fans, like we both watched all the way the whole thing, every single episode, obsessed. I mean, how did you find it? Different being on I mean, that must have been such a different kind of show.

Every show is a different experience, every every show is their own family. Every show has their own way of working. Every show has different energy. We our crew was amazing, is amazing. They're still amazing. They're out there still working doing what did they do? Our crew was always amazing, always professional, always on point. Our actors, well, you know our actors. Everybody brings their A game every time time and if they don't, you're going to know about it.

Yeah, I'm embarrassed to say how hard I like, super super crying after I finished the last episode.

Like I just want to say, I cried a lot.

I was.

I was alone in my sister's apartment and I was like, don't come.

Home for a few minutes. I was like by myself dying. Oh no, no, Well, pajamas reminded me. I also, I really am a fan of your fashion. I love that dress you wore the sag Wards.

It was so good. And there was like a blue.

Dress that you wore to some premiere and yeah.

Oh thank you so much. Yah.

We were wondering, like, how does that? How does your red carpet style work? Do you do that on your own or do you get help or what's up?

No?

I have help. I have had wonderful stylists that have picked things for me. But a lot of the times I do pick things in advance, or like I'll see something and I just say one, I need to wear this and I don't know what too yet. But someday someday, like that red dress. I wore the scandalous red dress. I just saw that on a runway and I was like, I need to wear that, and then we got nominated

General, And you've been acting for so long, Like you went to the you know, the Fame high school and you went to college for the dramatic arts.

What sparked you?

Like, do you remember that one show or movie or like what got you into acting?

I have always been a musician my entire life, and I really dedicated a lot of my youth to studying music, playing the violin, and I did a lot of that outside of school. And so then I got to an age around junior high where there were special also special junior highs in New York where you could go for if you were an athlete, or if you were a mathematician, if or you were in science whatever. And my school had a great artistic program, but the music wasn't quite

So tell us a little bit about the metal music. Neither of us. My husband's super into it. When I told him I was interviewing you, he was like, send me her band. I'm going to listen to it. So yeah, I mean, he got you one new listener on Spotify. But but like, how did you get into that? I mean, I know you said you were a musician like in school.

I ha, did it make its way to metal? Just like teen angst Man's that I go?

One day? One day my friend and junior high handed me this tape called King Diamond, Who's you know, big heavy metal guy, a Danish guy. And I was hooked from that point on, you know, And it wasn't just metal. I'd always kind of been attracted to that stuff. I remember, I love rock and roll. Jone Jet was on TV and I was like, she has got it down, like that woman, She's got it down. That's how you live,

So cute, everything so good.

Worring, Yeah, worring. I want to do you know, dragons and magic or someone that was singing about my pain or singing about the rough streets of New York or you know. That's what attracted me. If you're gonna live through music and have a reality that is not yours, it should be interesting at least.

I lived with a hardcore band for a month in Boston named American.

Nightmare, one of my favorites. I love them real.

They used to play and you lived with the whole band, I the lead singer. Okay, I didn't live with him in a romantic way. I lived with my friend in like another room in the apartment. Okay, yeah, I'm that way.

I remember the first time American Nightmare played CBGB's it was a quite a spectacle. They caused quite a stir.

Ooh, like, who were these guys.

They're awesome. They're not from around here, They're from Boston.

I had no clue about that. Yeah, it's just a little thing about me.

She just likes to throw that out every once in a while. You know.

Actually it just came to me because I don't know, maybe I separated them in my mind, but when you said hardcore, I was like, oh, hardcore, Yeah, I knew this band. I was thinking of metal as like a separate thing, but they are kind of hardcore punk metal. It's all like from the same kind of family.

We all used to go see everyone's shows. You'd go to a ska show and then a punk show, and we'd go swing dancing on Wednesdays, and then you know, go to the goth club and look at the floor and be all depressed, and then like, you know, like we were pretty pretty open to everything musically. I think I was not everyone. I was pretty open to everything musically, and I just loved experiences. I love. It's nothing like

Oh my husband just texted me, he's really loving your band.

He's listening to to ala Quine's gun.

Yeah, it's just in. You have a new fan.

Awesome, give him the horns up right there?

Yeah, for sure.

Oh my gosh, love her, love Maria Luiz, love Manuela, don't love Manuela, don't love the character.

Love Jessica. Love Jessica. She's so great.

I love all her scoop and gossip and yeah, she's just a badass. And I do love how much she loves her characters.

And yeah, and now my husband like, actually, he was like, I love this band.

She was texting me. I found it funny that Jared is a metal.

Head huge like hugely like just sits like writing and it's like dinner like loves it.

I really can't imagine. Yeah, it's hard to it's hard. It's hard to imagine. But then I also can't imagine any other music he would be into. So then he's into much random music. Jared's into so much random music. So my dad, sorry to bring this up with my dad again, No, but he's a hoarder. So he keeps bringing up old DVDs and I keeping like, I don't know, I'll see if Jared wants them, and he's like no, and then he won't give him.

But I don't know if Jared do not bring any more DVDs into my home, Like I'm literally he already was like we're moving to Blue Ray, so we already have so many Blue Wratt and now it's like they're becoming completely obsolete.

Anyway, let's get to the post mortem of this episode.

What have we learned?

This is obviously a fucking gut wrenching episode, a horrific, horrific true crime.

A few lessons to learn from it?

Well, I think a big one is, you know, like we always say, don't go to jail for a man, don't let a man hurt your children. I don't is that a good one? Like, yeah, fucking kids over boyfriends. I think that is a lesson for sure.

And obviously there's a lot of reform to be done to the foster's care system and there's a lot of kids that are slipping through the cracks.

That's not not the best.

No, it sucks, And it's just like it makes you feel so powerless and how big these problems are and that it's been this way for thousands of years in all of humanity, that we just like let our most vulnerable people fucking perish like this, and it's like.

That, and it's like in the in the episode, obviously you're supposed to kind of be like, yeah, WHOOPI Goldberg's a little bit of a villain and so like, but I think in reality, a lot of foster care workers are or case workers and people that work in for.

The state are really trying.

But it is an overloaded system with low compensation, and like it's just it's broken.

So it's not it's not.

Necessarily I don't think there's like villains out there being like let's just do the paperwork and let kids get beat up. Like I don't think that that's like a probably commonplace.

But it's just a very overworked system. And now that you did meant, now that you've mentioned, now that you've said it, we're gonna say it.

Wait, what's the community of my life?

But we don't say that, but now we've said it. Woo pee Goldberg, give her another oscar. I mean the performance of a SVU history. I think, like that monologue on the stand to me is chilling as fuck.

What b Goldberg should be the first person to egot twice?

Yeah, she just fully just read does a lap around people and egots a second time.

You know what's gonna be. It's that married couple that wrote the Frozen song. Those fuckers are just gonna keep gotting in circles and just like fucking each other with their Oscar dildos like they are. They can't stop winning.

Well, I guess you know more about that Frozen couple than I do. But oh, another thing is is if mrsha Hart is gonna go to the VMA's and get em party and she's gonna miss her flight, everyone's just got to give her a pass. She's the hardest working woman in show business and we're just gonna give her a fucking pass. Okay, she'll get to set when she gets to set, Okay.

And this is not fully a post mortem, but Bade Wong was on last Culturista's podcast one that I listened to with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, and they asked him to describe Marishka in three words. And I think you guys might would like to hear this. You can listen to the episode. But he described Marishka as dedicated, moral, and irreverent.

So that's pretty funny.

And then Matt goes, we love a moral queen, and I just keep saying that to myself over and over on my walks to nobody.

I'm just like, we love a moral queen.

Queen for sure. So that's just something that I thought you guys would like to know. But yeah, also, if you see something, say something or not, I don't know, or it could be safe, but yeah, no, definitely.

I mean like people in the building of this, like if you if you're someone is in your building that you feel like is But that's tricky too because it's like there's biases and there's things you don't know about what's going on with people's families, like you don't.

Know all chat services.

To cultural services because you hear somebody.

Maybe yelling at their kid, like you know, it's like that's it's just not necessary just because it's like the way you wouldn't do it.

It's it's a slippery slope.

So I also just keep thinking about how their fridge was stocked and it's like, I know that's something like the yogurt like that, it's like they had the means, like what the fuck?

No, it was like I think it was like this little girl was strong willed, and it's like they say, it's like how we talked about in the fritzl case.

It was more satisfied.

He had so many daughters to choose from, he chose the one whose spirit he wanted to break. You know, like this little girl was probably really strong willed, and that was just like that something in this in this father and this mother that where they punished her all the time.

And maybe we can all focus on not looking away when things are difficult and taking that extra moment to like reach out to someone that's on the street or like give someone.

Money or go pro to.

I don't know, just don't look away if you have an opportunity. Yeah, that's great advice. Well, because now I'm thinking about that. What's happening in Echo Park. That's all so fucked up. That's like that kind of news, And just like the Derek Chauvin trial starting, and then the fucking laws, the Jim Crow laws that are happening in Atlanta.

Do you know that that representative in Georgia who got arrested for knocking is a friend of mine?

No?

I did not.

Her brother is her brother is my good friend. She went to my summer camp. I knew her when she was a teenager, and oh yeah she I've been following her career in the in politics and anyway. Yeah, if you haven't read about what happened to park Cannon in Georgia, please look it up. She's awesome and I think, honestly we're going to be hearing a lot more from her, and that's great.

The one funny thing about that I saw on the internet was someone wrote like, oh, if they want to play petty, black people are the most petty people. And if we can't have snacks one hundred and fifty feet from the thing, we'll have a booth one hundred and fifty one feet away. Trust us, we will be handing out snacks. So I don't know, but I just wish people didn't have to fight so hard, Like, yeah, that's the thing, Like it's just it's just all too much. I don't know, is that a lesson? Is that what

All right, let's get into what would this you peg Do? What this your peg Do is our weekly segment where we direct you towards organizations or articles or resources that can help shed some more light on the topic.

That we covered in today's episode.

Today, I mentioned earlier that I am a volunteer for a foster advocacy organization called KASA. It stands for quarter Pointed Special Advocate. These arequarter pointed special advocates and guardians for foster children. And I joined this organization after Trump was elected in twenty sixteen, and I was trained to become a volunteer. And I've worked with a couple of kids. I'm currently working with one. You work with one at a time, and you basically are the child's advocate, so

That's also going to be in our show notes.

And if you have the time, it's really like once you do the training, it's a monthly it's more of a monthly commitment, and then you write court reports and stuff like that. But I think it really does make a huge difference. There are statistics that show that kids with kasas have more success with getting adopted or graduating school, and so it's just like extra eyes on kids in this system. So yeah, you can message me if anyone

Kara, I'm very proud to be your friend.

I'm glad you are you are ACASA, and that you know these kids are lucky enough to work with you. Now, next week you're welcome. Don't interrupt me again. Okay, next week we will be covering the episode intent season nineteen, episode eight. It is a wild one, and you can always watch the episodes on Hulu or Peacock or any international service you use. And you know, check us out on social media. We're pretty fucking active and talk soon. Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our incredible producer, Hannah Kyle.

Kraichon, and to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producer, Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot com. Slash ads done done,