Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Dune Dune.
Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. I'm Lisa and I'm Kara, and you guys know what we do here. We talk about an episode of SVU, we talk about the true crime it was based on, and we interview an actor from the episode, and we chitchat with each other. But one of the first things we want to talk about is to tell you guys that in June we're going to be back out on the road.
Babies.
We're doing some random, little smattering of shows in June. We're going to be at Cobbs in San Francisco on June eighth, that's a Thursday. We're going to be in Tempe, Arizona, back at the Tempe Improv on June's fifteenth. Sorry, that's June fifteenth, one five, and that's another Thursday. And then we'll be back at Denver Comedy Works one of our first live shows. Excited to be back on June twenty fifth, So that's a Sunday night, and guys, please come see us.
Get tickets, text us, message us on when you get tickets because I love to hear that people are coming. And yeah, we're so excited to see you.
Guys.
All back at the Sasha Kolby Meet and Greet. I mean we do meet people after our shows. We play fun games, like we will tell you in advance what episode we're doing so you can watch along. It's kind of like the podcast, but with all this extra fun stuff, and we do PowerPoint and yeah, just in case you haven't come to see us before, or if you have come to see us before, we have different merch come see us and Lisa anything to add.
Oh, I'm going to be doing stand up in Denver too. Are some of those dates, so check around the calendar. I really can't. I can't keep it together. The world's asking too much of us I have. The Internet's too much. It's just too much. Yeah, yeah, all these videos, all this here, look at me there, buy a ticket there, Like, how did we used to do it before?
Yeah?
People, someone wrote what more information from Denver?
Fucking google it? I don't know google it.
Yeah.
When I used to try to find concerts. I wasn't.
I didn't have direct communication with the Backstreet Boys.
I'm not comparing us.
But if you want tickets for any of our live shows, I can message Kara, you can message me directly. But they're also at that's messed Up live dot Com. That's where all of our stuff is. They're at the link in our bio on Instagram or that's messed Up Live dot Com has ticket links to all these individual shows. And check all the calendars, like for Lisa's stand up too, because she's will be at Denver Comedy Works around the same time that we're there as well, and that will
be fun. What else? Oh, so we can talk about Drag Race. If you haven't watched season fifteen of Drag Race, I don't know fast forward we're gonna talk about who won, but it made sense.
I think we're all happy as a community, and that's everyone.
I think all the queens are happy. We're all happy.
I'm actually was I was team and Eitra, but I'm so happy for Sasha and I knew it would be Sasha, and I'm actually excited because that means we probably get to see an Etra on an All Stars and she's really fantastic, and I think, with like even more confidence from winning, she's gonna be like amazing on an All Stars.
You know.
Yeah, Sasha has that extra star sexy twinkle in her eye that just you can't fake. You can't fake experience, you can't fake that stuff, you know what I mean, there's just what is that French word said, She's got it, She's got something that none of you have. So sorry, Like the way she just works the camera and looks into my soul is something.
Like the queens are like I'm in love with Like I think guy have a crush on her, like they like everyone's obsessed like with in her competition.
Her performance, there's just a level of artistry that is a foot above the rest.
I don't think I can remember like a time where somebody just sailed through the competition with like no lip syncs, never being in the bottom pretty flawless all runways, all performances. Like I can't remember somebody who just like, well, no
one even talks shit, No one ever talks shit. That's the thing too, because I can think of other people that were really good but you like, or avoided the bottom two even but there's drama, they're not that good at makeup because I was thinking Bob, but then he was in the bottom two that like, you know, against Derek Berry for the Sylvester song. Yeah, but you know it's a professional never mad at a part, could do calm,
you know, just like nice to everyone. No competitive nature, well competitive obviously miscontinental, but like competing against yourself more yes, yeah, just no shade really in a negative way, but funny and confident but not arrogant. I mean, truly a professional, shining star that I was happy to be on my TV week after week. Yea thrilled and I loved everyone else, but like Mistress and Lux looking so upset at the finale, It's like that's the true drag delusion.
Are you out of your minds?
You thought you were being you were gonna be in the top two, take your top four, bow, smile and call it a day. Yeah. The look of sadness on their faces, I was like, wait, you didn't You didn't.
Really didn't think you didn't think? Why not? What?
Yeah?
I mean it's like I don't know, I yeah, I don't know what it's like to have that kind of confidence where you just like are delusional, but a lot of these queens do. But when we're talking about no Shade and something we enjoyed watching our television on our television screens, I'd like to segue into something that I truly disliked watching on my television. I flew on Delta recently and I decided to watch this movie because it had an all star cast. It looked it had the
sheen of Nancy Myers. It was not a Nancy Myers movie, but it had a Nancy Meyer sheen on it. With the poster, it was Diane Keaton, Nancy Meyers, muse, it's Richard Gear, it's William H. Macy, and it's Shannon uh Susan Sarandon as well as Emma Roberts. And it's called Maybe I Do. And I watched this movie and I was like, I watched it on American I took an American flight, honestly, and I had to watch it on my cell phone. And I was like, whatever, I'll watch this,
And I kept going, is this terrible? Like nobody talks like this. It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. I guess it was adapted from a play and it doesn't seem like they did any adapting. I felt like I was watching a play in that weird way where in a play you can kind of accept people talking in monologues for a long time in a way that you don't in movies because it's like not real life, and.
Because it was so bad that you can't even sleep to it, Like that's how bad it was. It was so jarringly upsetting that you couldn't even be lulled.
It wasn't a lullaby bad.
It was like uncomfortable, horrible, like what does someone have on these actors?
Whose cousin is this? What is this?
Did you finish it? I don't say. I think I had to turn it off. But Michael Kostrof, that's what that was exciting.
I took a photo.
We did see Michael Kostrof in a funn Former game. He stole his little scene that he had. He was like a motel owner when people are trying to check into like a CD hourly motel. But I ended up on Delta on my way home and was like, you know what, I didn't get to finish it. I only got to the part where they talked about this big dinner that's like the centerpiece of the movie. I was like, I'll just keep watching and see what happens at the dinner.
And I literally turned it off and I never turned movies off almost ever.
Like this writer is cool.
This writer director created the show the Dinosaurs.
Oh my god, not the baby, not the Mama.
Yeah, and he created and wrote Boy Meets World.
Well, I think the problem is he needs to stay with kidshit because when he tried to do something that was adult, it was like painful. It's people talking about love NonStop with nothing concrete, just bullshit word salad talking about love, And I was like, what's even going on here? Like basically the main couple in the movie is like the girls like marry me or we're breaking up, which
is like one of the dumbest ultimatums. I hate it so much, but like, if that's what your girlfriend wants and that's not what you want, I guess you do have to break up, but let's talk about why you don't want it. Like he just keeps being like we're us, Like what's wrong with us just being us?
And like it's no chemist, fucking zero chemistry.
They kept acting like I don't know and then she just like Emma Roberts is a great actress. I feel like I love her in Coven, I like her and other stuff she's done, And in this she's just like, Mom, you told me I would never be a ballerina. It's like, are you thirty? Why the fuck do you care that you're not a ballerina anymore? Like her childhood bedroom still has ballerina posters in it, Like it's the Oh my god, I could go on about this movie for fucking ever.
It was so like it's it's so like not to mention the plot is like pretty preposterous, like in general, but then just all of like in this movie that I love called Playing by Heart with Angelina Jolie and Ryan Philippy and all these famous people. It's one of those ensemble movies where they're all woven together. At the end, she says to his character. Her character says to his character, talking about love is like dancing about architecture.
Like I just don't want.
To see a movie where people are just talking about love for hours on end. It's too boring and it doesn't make any sense or resonate with anyone if you're
not talking about actual experiences or anything specific. Maybe what love is blind is honestly, but it is interesting because they're all delusional, and so maybe that's what makes it great, because the whole point about love is Blind is they're trying to convince themselves and the audience that the love that they have created within a week to two weeks not seeing each other in these pods is more real than anything that anyone has ever experienced on the planet.
And so that is why them discussing it is so fantastic, because they're trying to diminish everyone else's love and why theirs is better. My favorite is it's one of the girl's wedding days and she's sitting with you know, friends and family in her bridal sweep and she goes, it's just so pure because I didn't have any friends or family, like none of your influence.
It was purely what I believed.
And it's like, what a rude thing to say to the people who love you.
If I had let you guys meet him in advance, you probably would have ruined it.
Like that's essentially like it's.
Just such a weird thing to say, and it's saying that, like all of your love isn't as pure because you have outside influence.
It's just like it is.
That's such a classic talking yourself into it thing though. That's a classic talking yourself into it thing, And then when it doesn't work out, who's to blame? Only you? Like you can't look around and say, like, why did't any of you guys give me the red flags? Like you know, you're solely responsible for the failure if this doesn't work out.
Yeah, but just in general, when you're trying to yeah, you're right, it's a classic thing of like why yours is more real? Is like, yeah, so silly to me. I did like in the Love is Blind reunion, I
know you're not watching. What I did like was some of the people were like even they were like, you have to forgive us because it's a really crazy experience, and you like people that were wronged were really advocating forgiveness to the psychopaths because they're like, listen, it's a really fucked up thing we're going through, and please be nicer to us. Like they were all really kind kind of to each other in terms of like, yeah, we
all did weird things. It's a weird experience we went through, so I kind of liked that.
Yeah, well, anyway, don't be fooled by the fucking right that I got, and yeah, don't be fooled by the rocks that Diane Keaton's got, or like that, by the the you know, cream colored interior design that makes you think it's a Nancy Myers movie, because maybe I do. As one of the worst movies I've fucking ever seen in my life. It was really really bad, because sometimes on a you want a bad movie. You want something that's just like, yeah, simple, easy, predictable, fine.
That you can be in and out of. You can feel like that is perfect.
Well, speaking of I finally watched M three Gin on the plane on another flight, and I loved it.
I thought it was so fun. It's so fun.
It's my perfect horror movie too, because there's barely any like there's scariness and there's like murder, but there's not gore. You know, there's like one sighting of blood really like it's just not that bloody. Well, no, the couple, there's a couple gory things, but like it's not that bad.
Yeah, I'm just not anti gore, but it is really sounds like al Gore.
Wait, I went to a Dodgers game yesterday.
I heard how did you hear from the wife of the person you went with?
Oh, that's so funny. It was only decided like so less minute. That's so funny, but it was. I really love LA Baseball fans.
I loved fans, yeah, outside of the stadium and everything, but like these are great fans, great people, great vibe, great vendors, Like even the cops.
Are kind of chill.
Like, yeah, I probably not for everyone, so so you know, but even yes, Like I just really love the vibe of and I've not maybe other sports are great here too, but I love LA Baseball. I have a great time, and I actually my kids aren't ready, but I do want to go, Like really, I want to go without them, but then I want to take them eventually when they're old enough.
But I think it's really fun.
I agree, and like I'm not a huge sports person, but I love how everybody feels like they're having fun, like they're not like screaming at the players, like they could fucking do better.
Like I don't know, I just like I really families.
It was Hello Kitty night, which I wish I knew I would have gotten their own. God, I would have wanted the giveaway, but I didn't know.
I didn't know.
But there was a lot of Hello Kitty kids, and they keep U entertained, Like they play the Lion King music, the Simba reveal, and then people hold their babies up for the JumboTron.
Oh my god, that's cute, really cute, that's really cute. I'm I took Rosie to the Lion King. Have we talked about it?
No, not yet, not yet.
But I also wanted to say, also when the gameplay, I don't know how I feel about the pitching clock and the time, the new rules, I don't know how I feel.
I don't know what any of that means.
I just heard that it makes it the makes the baseball games shorter, and so they have less time to sell beer. So now they're selling beer longer at shows, I mean at shows, at games, I.
Sports psych, I mean, they they're doing their own thing. Everyone will get used to it. I think it's an American but I will deal with it. But there it does create more drama. For sure. There was like there was honestly, it was like two amazing teams playing that I don't give a shit about so to me, I was like relaxed, excited, just into the gameplay, watching families enjoying their lives.
No one's rushing. I don't know, like I just am like I it.
Was just like a glorious, glorious, relaxing evening. I love that and it was a nice night and I would go at any time.
No, but I don't know. I don't know. If you're yeah, we will go without the kids. No, no, no, no, no no.
I'm just saying I feel like it's a fun thing to bring your family to, but like my kids are years away from it. I mean, oh my god, Oscar won't stop waking up at five in the morning.
It's killing me. But I did take Rosie. Oh yeah, the bed. The bed is now open and he is well.
No, I didn't move him to the bed, Okay, So if anyone doesn't know what's going on, I am transitioning my children into bunk beds. Rosie last night slept in the bunk bed for the first time, top bunk like a champ.
No problem.
Oscar for the last four days has been waking up at five am, so I think he's going through what's called a two year old sleep regression. If you are a sleep person and you know how I can get him to stop this shit, please DM me your advice. I cannot let him cry it out because he shares a room with Rosie and he will wake her up, so it's a problem. So I do have to go in there and get him as soon as he starts stirring. And that's the problem. So we just watch Mawana at
five am every morning and it's killing me. So I'm not going to move him into the bottom bunk until he's done with that shit.
What's wrong with Mawana? Does he go back to bed when he watches Mahana? Or no?
No, no, we're up for the day at five point fifteen today five twenty five what a lion?
Not for you because you have the bunk bed situation. But I did see a friend of mine post on her stories like the baby's waking up too early.
I need advice.
We're not a cry it out family, And to me, I'm like, then go fuck yourself. Yeah, I'm sorry, Like I'm If he was alone, I would let him cry it out and maybe I'll move him into another room and like resleep train him.
But that's just a little bit tough because I just don't have the space in my house, so I me, it just bothers me. It's like, then, what advice do you want?
Yeah, your baby's awake, go deal with it if you don't want them cry, Like, what advice do you It's like people being like, how do you get into stand up without working hard and doing it all the time.
It's like, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, I'd love to just like get to the part where I'm headlining clubs. How what's your advice on that? You know, how do I get my baby to sleep?
But I don't want to leave them crying and I don't actually want to wake up either.
Yeah, I don't know.
No, I'm a cry it out person. I did sleep training with cry it Out. Let's like modified where you go in and you say I'm here, you're safe, so they don't feel like they're abandoned, but you don't touch them, you don't pick them up.
Or he's probably too young.
What I like that I saw on TikTok was like there's a green light and a red light and he's just can't do the house till the green light or the room.
You know, but our.
Mutual friend just told me she didn't start that until like two and a half. Like he's too young right now, he won't understand it. But when he's a little older, we're absolutely doing that fucking light.
But it's not a.
Problem for Rosie because that girl will sleep until seven. When we were on vacation in New York, she were sleeping until eight, eight thirty. I was like in heaven because I was going to bed at regular times and she was just like snooze and Lucci all morning. It was amazing. But I did take her to Lion King. She did really love it. But I told Lisa, Lisa got to see her right before. We have a cue picture.
Maybe I'll post it on the Instagram page. But I was My experience was almost ruined by a crazy lady behind me who just kept telling me that I was moving too much. I had Rosie on my lap because there were no more boosters and I couldn't see. She couldn't see if I didn't hold her on my lap. She was honestly staying very still, and this woman was like, you keep moving, my daughter can't see anything. And I was like, you already moved your daughter down to the
end of the aisle like it was crazy. She yelled at me twice and I was like, you need to go talk to an usher because I'm not doing anything wrong, Like I'm not going to deal with this with you, and then she stopped. But it kind of ruined the experience for me. But Lion King is really pretty and you know, beautifully done, good for kids.
So you hated it. I liked it.
I wouldn't go back and be like, oh my god, it's wicked. I'll see it as many times as I can in my lifetime, but like it's good, you know, it's really good.
Also, congrats to SVU getting picked up for two more seasons.
Oh was it two? Two more seasons?
We got to see this twenty five twenty six commitment, so hopefully I.
Was thinking, I was like yeah, I was just thinking like, yeah, wouldn't it be so random with it out of nowhere they were just like, yep, this is gonna be svu's last season. It's not gonna go it's not gonna stop till Marishka wants it to stop.
I'm sure.
So I'm glad we get two more and selfishly, I hope I know get an audition.
Jeez, I you know I flopped what ten years ago? Give her another chance? Now, do you have to like be registered as like a local person?
Maybe, but you can be.
No, it doesn't matter if I'm a local higher and I pay my own way. They yeah, you just fly out there, wouldn't they make it happen. You've got to make it happen. Let's start start episode. Guys, We've got a good one for you today. So stay right where you are, all right, Today's episode Inheritance. It is season three Back in the Marishka Short Hair.
Days, episode eight. Yeah.
This episode came out like November of two thousand and one, so back in the day, a post nine to eleven world.
Whoa yeah, Like really, Clese, I mean, I'm a freshman in high school here. This is wild? Yeah, yeah wild. You know, my best Sie Julia said that people ask her all the time, like if I really actually like SCVU or not. And you know, I was staying with her in New York a few a while ago, and she like she just kept hearing it from my room or like she would come to the living room and it'd be on the TV, and.
She's like, I like that.
I could really tell people that you're in it, that you are watching.
What a wild thing to think.
That we're faking, Like what you know what I mean, like that you don't really like it that much, but like you're just doing a podcast where we go so deep into it all but every week.
That's what I said.
And then she gave an example of someone we know that does do a podcast about something that I don't know if they actually care about.
Well, people are sociopaths, that's yeah, Yeah, that's not totally.
Because I reacted the same way you did. I was like, who would do that? And then she had an example a B. C. D. Like we know crazy people. That's so true. Yeah, but I have been watching I guess for decades, like it is sick, Like I remember these when I was younger, and now I remember them now, and I've watched this so many times, and I'm so.
I don't.
I just remember this episode so vividly, and I feel lucky that we finally got.
To cover it. Yes, we've been waiting.
We've been wanting to cover this for a long long time, so I'm glad we get to finally do it.
Yes, this one totally totally like it sticks in my brain.
It's one of those ones. Okay, So let's get started.
Open on a doctor describing the wounds of this woman, and we're going the camera's going over her face. She's got orbital fractures, knife lacerations, she's wearing a neck brace.
So we find out that she is actually alive, but despite the best efforts of whoever attacked her, like, she has been very severely beatn It's hard to watch, and there's it's like there's kind of one of those effects where like a camera's taking photos of her wounds and it's like a freeze frame in the episode, and that's not something they usually do, but it is season three,
so they're still experimenting. It reminded me, of course, of silence of the Lambs when they're like taking the photos of the body, and it's like you know and like you It's like that was a very The sound of that camera will be in my head forever. But Benson and Stable are standing over her. Basically, cops that were responding to a burglar alarm found her outside a warehouse in Chinatown. She also has cigarette burns on her arm,
and she has a tattoo of a purple dragon. The rape kit shows fluids, but then it's the fluids are tainted from bleach, so whoever did this had bleach on them was like covering it up. So she won't be able to talk tonight, the doctor says, and Benson's like, she's gonna have plates in her face for the rest of her life. Like this is a lot of rage for whoever did this. And also the alley where they found her was in full view of the streets, so
pretty ballsy, like person who did this? And Benson and Stabler are chatting and they're like, also, what are the chances that the assault of this woman and the burglary are unrelated?
And Benson's like, do you believe in coincidences? And then dun, dun, dun dun.
We are into the credits, and so now we're at the crime scene and it's Benson, Stabler, Fin and Munch the major four, and the burglars apparently took fifty thousand dollars in high speed computer processors, so this is like sort of a more upscale robbery. It's not like a smash and grab for drugs or whatever. It's like, where are you gonna move computer processors? Do you know where to sell those. It was five masked men. They jumped a janitor, locked him in the utility closet.
Non violent.
I like that they didn't kill him. And the vic and we saw earlier is Helen Chen. She's nineteen, lives on Hester Street, which is in Chinatown in New York. Stables shows them a picture of Helen's tattoo, and Finn has the lowdown. He's like, women aren't members of Asian gangs. They're just associates through bros and bfs, like brothers and boyfriends. But I wonder, like, are there gangs where women are members? Like are there female members of the mafia? I know
there's not female members of motorcycle clubs. Really, there's just like what do they call them? I forget what they call them. But there's like women that are part of my motorcycle clubs that they always say in sons of anarchy, And there's like the Irish mob. There's all kinds of organized crime and women can play parts like run drugs, keep secrets.
But are they ever like full fledged members? Have you ever heard of one?
No? But and like I guess I have visions of like maybe some old matriarch that's truly in charge somewhere.
Yeah.
No, No, if you're a super masculine organization, you don't respect women, that's a part of it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think all gangs like because they're like women. Women aren't eight members of Asian gangs, Like it's a separate like it's specific to Asian gangs.
I'm like, I think that's all gangs. Like, I don't think that.
I don't think, uh, what is the big one that ever that the Republicans were MS thirteen. I don't think they have female members, you know, Like, I don't think that there's that.
I do remember daytime talk shows where there were a lot of like Latina ctyle gangs where you can beat your way into that. Like, I don't I don't know. I don't think it's good. I don't know why you would.
I don't know.
I don't know why you're asking me, Like I'm a pro, like I have the low down on gangs.
I have no idea, Liza, I'm asking because of all your experience in the gang unit when you worked.
At the Chicago PD growing up.
No, I was just wondering if you'd ever heard of it in all of our all of our travels, some prime and stuff.
I'm like, I think on Jenny Jones there were like girls with lipliner and baggy pants that were in the gang.
Yeah, and they would call the girls like gang bangers, like and they're they're hanging out with gangbangers, but I don't think they're ever members. But anyway, Munch says something judge about Helen, about her associating with unsavory characters because of the tattoo, which seems like a weird thing for Munch to do.
Munch has a tattoo, and.
Finn knows a guy in gangs who knows all about these tattoos and witch gangs go to which tattoos, so they'll go talk to him. Here we are, Munch and Finn are talking to Matt Sue, a detective who tells them about the that the burns could be about initiation, it could be about number of kills, it could be a punishment, it could mean a lot of things. He's being kind of like, not like glib, he just kind of doesn't know a lot of specific answers for them.
He shows them tattoo the tattoo and he's like, yeah, that could be Chinese gang and they're.
Like, that's all you got for us.
And he goes, dude, I worked two years undercover in Chinatown and I barely scratch the surface, like they these people don't want to talk to cops, Like I didn't get a lot of information, like information. I guess the computer chip thing he says, also makes sense if that seems like a Chinese gang. And also they do use rape as punishment, so maybe she broke the rules somehow.
So now they're at the hospital, Benson and Stabler are talking to Helen and then her brother Johnny is there, and this guy is it's played by Nelson Lee, who, if you remember, was Sergeant Joe Chin in the episode counselor It's Chinatown. So he literally this actor went from playing like a like a kid who might be gang affiliated to like a full sergeant in the Gang Unit. So along a walk from season three to twenty one or something, but we.
Covered that episode, yeah, the one where Margaret show it was our guest, so yeah, like one of my visit, one of our earliest ones and truly a favorite.
Helen is lying on the end this hospital bed with her jaw wired shut and Johnny's like, don't make her cry. She starts to choke and they have to snap her jaw back open, and it's like fuck, like that's horrible, Like she's only making like little noises, and so they pull Johnny aside. They're like, Okay, if we can't talk to her, let's talk to the brother. And like she's as he's talking, she's just grunting and whining through the jaw,
like just to be like shut up. Don't say anything to her brother, I guess, and he's like, I don't know why she was in the alley, and they noticed that he has a mark on his arm where a tattoo was lasered off, and he's like, I'm not in a gang. I was with the Ghost Shadows, but I
got out. Helen is still in with her boyfriend who's Vietnamese named Doo Tran, and Johnny says that he told Doo to stay away from Helen, and Doo said he'd kill Johnny if he got in between them, and he says Dow is the one that robbed the warehouse, so a lot of info were getting from this brother here. Sabler suggests that maybe the Ghost Shadows did the robbery and raped Helen to get back at Johnny for bouncing out of the gang, and he goes, no, the ghost
Shadows would never do that. They know I'd kill anyone who hurt Helen. So he tells them they can find Doo and his gang is called the Born to Kill Boys at this restaurant on Canal Street, and born to Kill, I guess, he explains, is a ref friends from Vietnam and it's what American soldiers had written on their helmets, so yes, more money for the military. Anyway, at the restaurant, it's Munch Fin Live and Stabler and they show up looking for Dow and immediately there's like a hostess that's
like stonewalling. But the guy shows up and sees them and starts running into the kitchen, so they chase them into the kitchen, iced Tea grabs his ass and he's like banging his head against a bunch of dead chickens that are hanging on the wall. So very cinematic. And then they've got Dow in interrogation talking a Stabler. And this actor is a guy named Kevin Louie and acting did not work out for him. He has not been in anything really. He did like two or three things.
Actually he was in Sex and the City as intern and then this and then one other thing, and that's it. He stopped acting. But he is very hot. I'm surprised that didn't work out for him. He's a hot man. Dow's like, I haven't seen Helen in a week, and he's like, I didn't rape Helen. I love her, So twists they broke up, but they are still in love. He says Helen told him that the ghost Shadows did the warehouse and that she was the lookout, and he's like, he's like, I promise you Johnny did this.
He ordered to have it done.
Like maybe he obviously didn't rape his own sister, but he ordered it to be done. She didn't want to do the gangshit anymore, but Johnny had a hold on her, and he says, Johnny made Helen give herself the burnmarks. And they're like, okay, well it's your word against his,
and he's like, ask Helen. So now they go back to Helen, who now can talk more like her jaws still a shot, but she can still talk like this, and so it's like, but before she couldn't talk at all, So I don't know if some swelling went down or whatever, but she's got full metal head stabilizer head gear going on.
I knew a kid in school who had to walk around in that.
I knew this kid who was two grades blow me my sister's class, and he had to walk around with like full metal sticks cubes keeping his head stabilized at all times. I don't know what kind of injury he had, but not a good one. So Helen says her brother was not involved in her attack, and neither was Dow. Dow loves me, so we do see there's a cute little love story going on with these two. Maybe in
a little bit of a sharks versus Jets situation. They mentioned her brother making her burn her arm, and she doesn't really fight them on it, so maybe he did do that. She says she doesn't remember her attacker. She got hit and passed out, and then she's crying at the idea that her brother just left her there to die and may have been the one who ordered the attack. So she tells Benson and Sabler about a house where
the ghost shadows keep their scores. When the SVU squad shows up at the house to nab Johnny, they find detectives Sue our special gang unit guy from earlier. They're conducting a full raid and Munch is like, what the fuck, dude, you knew that tattoo was ghost Shadows and you lied about it. And he's like, I couldn't tell you. It's always like you would have jeopardized a fifteen month investigation. That's like we hear that line all the time. So
he's like, I couldn't tell you. And just as you think they're going to get into like a jurisdictional pissing match, which they love to do, Sue goes, you guys want Johnny, he's yours, and they just hand him over to SVU and Stabler like hauls him away. So now we're in interrogation with Johnny and he's like, I didn't do anything.
I provide for Helen. I take care of Helen.
He's very like late nineties early aughts punk guy. He's got like spiky hair, chunky metal necklace, like that's the whole look with this guy. He already got got on the burglaries.
He could have he could have gone to Emo Night with Arianna, Sheena and Katie.
For sure, absolutely absolutely he would have fit right on it.
I want to go to emo night.
I have gone to one of those nights, or I've gone to a goth night in La And the goth night is more the cure than you think. Like it's all very like light music. It's like the cure in the Smiths. It's not like I don't know. I just thought goth music would be more like dark metal and stuff.
But it wasn't.
No, because that's metal, I know, but that's what I thought goth people listened to.
I didn't know that goth music was like, you're a poser.
Well, I I went with friends who are self described goths. I was just a tag along, definitely a poser. I was a drag along. It was a goth drag along.
So it was so funny.
On Tricksy and Katya's podcast, they were talking about goths and tricks He's like, where are all the goths?
And Kantya goes at the goth clubs you more on. So Johnny's already gotten got on the burglary. So he admits that when they went into the warehouse, Helen was fine. She was the lookout we went in to do the robbery. But when we came out. I didn't see her. I thought she just ran off.
But then he.
Finds her, okay, and he goes, she was so beat up, I heard sirens.
She looked dead. So he just got the fuck out of there and stay.
Benson's like, so you saved your own ass, and he's like, you know, yeah, basically I thought she was dead. So then in the middle of interrogation, Craigan pulls them out with the classic our guys struck again and bleach Man is back. He says, so, apparently, thirty minutes ago in Chinatown, another victim has been attacked, but this time she is dead. Done, done, okay. So now top of AC two, we're at the crime scene. Benson's walking and talking with Lance Reddick, who so sadly
died recently. He was an emmy in the early episodes of the show, and he must have been like an emmy on episodes where like tomorrow too, and he wasn't available because he was on seasons one, two, and three. But she comes in season two and she's on all the time, and then he's just sprinkled in in the rest of.
Two and three. He was in six episodes.
This is his last one and obviously I love him from Bosh. He was also in Corporate, a comedy on Comedy Central and the John Wick Movies, and I just love Lance Reddick. And I just wanted to take a second to say I was so sorry to hear that he died like he apparently had a heart incident, is
what did it? And his family said that doesn't make any sense because he had this healthy lifestyle, and it just makes you scared because you know, my husband's got a grandma who's just sitting around eating cheeseburgers and she's ninety four. But then other people are, you know, healthy, young, and just dropping dead. So you never know with life, live every day like it's your last. Anyway.
The victim in this crime is Asian.
Bleach was used to clean it up, and she was beaten around the face and head, exactly like Helen's situation.
But this girl fought back.
She had blood underneath her fingernails that must have made the perp mad, and so he carved something into her chest.
They say it's a slur.
I can't make out what it is, and Benson's like, oh, this guy's racist. Could you see what it said? I watched it twice, so I couldn't see if it said anything.
Then I thought, is it.
A slur in like Asian characters? But I really couldn't make it out. But Benson comes to the conclusion, Okay, this guy's are racist. He's attacking Asian women like for a reason, so these are hate crimes. In Kragan's office, the gang is gathered around, but they don't have much to go on.
Huong is there.
He's like, the brutality suggests tremendous anger against Asian women. He was probably victimized by Asians at some point. It's like you're giving him a lot of credit. Hoong, he could just hate Asian people. I mean, I feel like there are men that have not been victimized by a certain group and just hate them, such as women. But this guy is so confident to believe that he won't get caught. But Houong's like, but maybe he wasn't always. I would look into his past, maybe you'll find smaller
acts of aggression like peeping exposure. He definitely built his way up to this, And Craigan's like, I'll call the Bias Task Force, have them send over anything involving hate crimes against Asian women. This is one of the episodes too, where you really see them like chipping away with the detective work because they don't have anything to go on initially, and they really get to some shit.
So of course, I'm just glad that this brother didn't set up his sister, you know what I mean.
Yes, yeah, he did just run away when he saw her there dying, but he did not set her up to be attacked.
So that is a good that is a good part of it.
So of course, whenever they get sent a bunch of boxes of files, Munch is pissed, right, Munches, They're like, God, there's nothing here, Like they always have Munch complaining whenever they're fielding calls and tips or whenever they're looking through file boxes, Munches not having a good time. He's like, there's nothing here but pages of racist scum, nothing specific. They're like, Oh, there's this peeping top who got away. There's a guy who shoved a woman and yelled a
slur but then disappeared. Like this guy's invisible, and it's like it might not all be him.
They're a racists everywhere.
Oh, and they're still waiting on the results from the fingernail blood so the girl the last victim that got the blood on her nails, they're still waiting on sorology. So Huang surprised that this guy was so careless to leave DNA behind when he's like meticulous about the bleach, so his rage maybe escalating. Live finds a complaint where a woman placed an ad in a Chinese newspaper and the guy pulled a utility blade on her, and that is the same thing that cut up the last victim,
whose name was Lucy Zang. I thought I said that before. So the girl dropped the complaint the next day, let's go talk to her. Benson's like a translator is going to take a long time, and Stabler goes, Hwong, do you mind translating? And he goes, you just assume I speak Chinese and he goes, no, I heard you order take out once. So that's like a little funny moment between them. It's oh, it's not even the first time.
I feel like that, because wasn't there also an issue with this in the debt episode as well.
I haven't seen that one in a while, the mngnah when I haven't seen it a little bit?
Why I feel there's also a thing of like can you translate?
And he's like, how dare you?
Like, I I just feel this isn't the first time where he's like pissed that stable at like I don't know, but Stabler is, and he's always mad at Stabler. I mean, Stabler is a like a he's the prototype of a cop that we would hate.
Yes, and he does seem like he would be racist.
Yeah, you know, but I'm thinking of the thing where it's like wacky African art and yes, he's like why does it have to be wacky?
And he's like, well if I'm paying for it, and yeah, so he's not wrong in this case. Huang does speak Chinese and so there go and they talk to Sonya he's translating. He explains that she came from China to live with her aunt. She tried to meet people through personal ads in the China Sun newspaper. Her and this guy who was an engineer from Beijing back and forth
for a while. They were going to have dinner, but she said when she arrived it was all lies and they're like, what do you mean it was all lies? And she's like, he wasn't Chinese, he was black. As they leave, the interview, Stabler's like, how many African American males are so good at Chinese that they could fool a native speaker.
And it's like, well, is that racist? You can't assume that you know whatever.
So then Huang go's, well, he might be a student or work at the World Bank, like he could have a job where he needs to use Chinese. Then he lies about his own race because these women wouldn't show up if they knew that he was black, and he assumes once they've met, the woman will be so into him, but then her reaction to his race is what sets
him off. So that's an interesting like profile of this guy, like he kind of knows what the reaction is going to be, but then he's still almost catfishes people into meeting him.
And then it.
Turns out he placed the ad in the paper with a stolen credit card. So now they go and they trace the guy who had his credit card stolen. This is Larry Tang. I actually I know this guy. He is a stand up comedian named Elliott Chang. He's done my shows many times. Wow, and he just yeah, he hasn't done that much acting, but this is one of the roles he did. He's like an HTML coder who the purp sole is the credit card from?
And he's like, yeah, I was abroad for a while.
I guess they just didn't notice and there were all these random charges and so like he's very clueless, like you know, just doesn't realize. And then he goes, but whoever did it probably was trying to hide something from their wife. And then he shows them the statement and there's like China Girl, a charge to China Girl for two hundred bucks. And that's a massage parlor that they all act like they know is not really a massage parlor or massaging is only partially the services that you get.
So now we're at the massage parlor. There's like twenty seven locations in this episode. We're at the massage parlor. They obviously threatened the owner with a raid, as they usually do, and ask about an African American man with the credit card, Larry Tang, who came in two weeks ago, and he goes, I don't even need to look at my records. I know exactly who you're talking about. He tried to kill one of my girls. And then they bust in on this girl. Clearly not giving a massage
to a large white man who is very shocked. And then they are separately in a room talking to her and she's like, yeah, the guy who attacked me was young, in his twenties. There was nothing really special about him. He said he wanted a girlfriend. I guess I laughed at one point and he got mad. He punched me. He pulled out a little army knife. He called me names. And then she shows what like right like not her shoulder, but not her breasts, like that little area right there,
he kind of like upper chest. He cut her really badly and there's like a deep cup there, and she can give them a description for a sketch artist. So now the gang is back at the squad, still trying to figure this out. The sketch has been spread out and they got nothing. No one is biting on this sketch. This guy Huang says picked a particularly insular culture. And he's like, I know, if my sister dated a black guy,
my parents would not They would have strongly objected. And of course, in my mind that sister is Margaret Chow, because she has cast herself as that and we have agreed to that casting. When hopefully they both come back for future episode. He puts himself in a position to get rejected and it's like he wants an excuse to get mad this guy, and then Munch comes in. Finally there's a hit on the blood as an African American man who was sent up state on multiple rapes and
homicides and was released last year. So like, okay, this is our guy. So they go find him at this halfway house. But when they sort of get eyes on him, he is in a wheelchair and the guy taking them up there taking them to him, is like, yeah, this is a halfway house for men with disabilities. So Harold starns this like convicted murderer rapists who's been let out probably for compassionate release, has advanced MS. And the actor
is actually Arthur French and Lisa. He was in the episode Vulnerable, the Andy Powers episode that we did remember when he's like a bad nurse at a nursing home and remember the guy who's like I saw Klansmen in the hallways.
That's this guy. Wow.
Wow.
Yeah, we liked him, and sadly.
He did pass away in July of twenty twenty one, but he was a very well known television and theater actor like doing a lot of New York stuff. So Arthur French, I think I said, what's his name? And this guy's like, I ain't helping the cops. And they're like, okay, but your DNA was all over a murder victim, so what's up? And he goes, I can't. He goes, I can't even get out of this chair, boy, And if I could, I wouldn't be it wouldn't be to get with no downtown bitch, Neil bhar.
I hope you wrote that line.
And so they're like, do you got any brothers, cousins who'd want to set you up? And he's like, I don't know. And then Olivia has like a light bulb moment. She goes, do you have any children? And he's like, what are you offering? And she goes, well, you've raped a lot of women. You could have gotten someone pregnant. And he's like, I guess so, lady. So now top of act three, we're at the lab and a tech is confirming that he's talking about a lot.
Of legal DNA stuff. I'm a little bit confused.
Why DNA would pop on someone who's the son unless they were only testing the paternal DNA. But it turns out these guys blood situations, they're alleles or whatever, are so close that they are definitely blood relatives and this guy could be the son because the DNA is super close. So now they have to go back and look at all of Starnes's victims. We've got Martha Shelby who had a child that fits the timeline after her assault and
no father listed. And then Starnes also had a girlfriend at the time named Pamela Tatum, and she had a kid while they were together, and he'd be twenty three now. So Finn brings up like, wouldn't it be wild if the father and the son were both rapists, and Huang chimes in and is like, yeah, I mean, some geneticists think that violence is inherited, and you know, drink because that's basically the name of the episode. And then Benson says that theory is ridiculous. It's just another way for
people to not take responsibility for their actions. And you know, we know that in very recent believe. I don't know if her mom dies in season two or three, but we kind of she's been trying to figure out, like who her mother's rapist was and stuff, So we know this is going to sort of hit for Live a little bit. So then Craigan goes, let's find the guy.
We can discuss the human genome project later. And then Sabler asks Benson if she's all right, and she's like, I'm fine, like brushes it off, but obviously not fine. So they go talk to Martha Shelby and we find out very quickly that her child was born premature and only lived for two hours. Feels like something that would be a public record and at the very least could
have been a phone call. But they needed this scene so that the woman could have the opportunity to say it was better for me not to have the constant reminder of my rape and to make Live feel bad about herself, like we needed this scene. So now Live seems rattled, like, oh my god, was I like a constant torture for my mother to face me every.
Day and whatever?
Outside Stabler's like, are you going to just pretend this isn't bothering you? And she's like, knock it off, Elliott, and he's like, what Professor Shelby said in there didn't get to you. And she's like, I've been a child of rape for a long time. I've known it my whole life. I've dealt with it. I'm fine, done, Okay. So she's being very maloney here and refusing to talk about her feelings now, so.
She's allowed to not talk about her feelings at work.
Elliott, Yes, yes, very true. So now we're talking to Pamela Tatum. It's Munch and Finn go to talk to Pamela Tatum, who was Starnes's living girlfriend, and she's like, that motherfucker like lived with me for all these years, and you know what I got out of it. He raped and killed my best friend in my own building. And it's like, fuck, lady, you have had a life. She's like, I had a son, Michael, but hell no, Harold is not his father. And they're kind of like, yeah,
but you slept with a lot of guys. You don't really know who the father is. They're kind of slept shaming her a little bit. Michael walks in and he goes what's going on and they're like, well, what's up?
Where have you been?
And he's like, I've been at my girlfriend's in DC for the last two weeks. Munch is like slept, shaming the mom for not knowing who the dad is, and so Finn tells the son, listen, if you're innocent, you've got nothing to hide, but she's like, get out of my house. So Michael follows them to the elevator and he's like, guys, like, seriously, I didn't do anything. And he's like, but I don't really want to know if I'm Harold's son. Is there a way we could do
this without DNA? And they're like, what about a lineup? Will you stand for a lineup? And he's like, yes, of course, because they can ask Helen, although Helen didn't see her attacker.
Oh, they can the woman who got attacked at the massage parlor.
So at the precinct, Craigan tells them, you know, we don't need to put Michael in the lineup.
His alibi cleared.
He was seen in DC and then Pamela mentioned that Starnes lived in Flatbush before Harlem. We never looked at him for his rapes in Brooklyn, So they go get the files. Now we are at the apartment of Susan Gwan and this she is played by y Ching Ho and she's a very well known actress. She's in another episode of SVU called Lost Traveler, which we covered early on.
She's in Nora from Queens. She was just in a recent episode of OC and if you've seen Turning Red, a very popular Disney movie starring little girls that turned into Red Pandas, she's the voice of the grandma. So I thought that was fun because I watched that a couple of times with Rosie. But she's got along IMDb and has been working for a long time. And Benson and Stabler are like, where's your son Darryl, And she's like, I don't know.
Sometimes he doesn't come home.
And then they ask her about her rape in nineteen seventy seven and if she became pregnant as a result, and she's very like skittish at first, like is my rapist out here? Like is he still out there? And she's like, no, he'll be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. And that kind of like makes her, you know, calm down a little bit, and she confirms that he was the father she got pregnant after her assault and thought maybe something good could come out of it.
And then Stabler clocks Daryl in a picture and they tell her about the blood at the murder scene and she says, oh, no, he's a good boy, and then she immediately changes her tune and she goes, no, it's my fault. I thought my family would accept him because he was mine, but they didn't. My parents told me to get rid of him, that he was half devil. Neighborhood kids taunted him, hurt him. He would cry to me every single day. Stabler's like, why didn't you move away?
And she was like, I guess part of me hated him too. Fuck pretty dark. They're looking through his room and Stabler is like, he doesn't look like the sketch. How come none of them reported that he was half Asian and we never really get an answer to that, Like none of them said, oh, he's a black man, but he.
Does look half Asian.
And they find a book on murder in his room and hunting human beings, and they find bloody jeens, so this is their guy.
Basically.
They go to the pharmacy where Darryl is the delivery guy, and the boss is like, I knew he was up to something. Women kept complaining he was asking them out. It's like, and yet you kept him employed. And so liv goes through the computer with a quickness. She's like blah bla blah bah bah blah blah blah blah bah, and she finds Helen and Lucy's mothers are both in the system with their home addresses, so that links him to the existing victims right away. They go out on
his delivery route to try to find him. Benson clocks him across the street, but he makes them and he starts to run. She chases him, and uniformed officers stop Daryl and he has his hands up, but Live still catches up and slams his ass against the wall. And it's one of those like, uh oh, this case is really getting to her kind of moments, because that's like violence that she doesn't really need to be pertaking in. And then they find a water bottle on him and
guess what's in it? Done Done Bleach. So this guy's got his bleach water bottle on him and he's ready to attack at any moment. I wanted to point out that the actor playing Darryl Gwan is Marcus Scott.
Chong and he is the.
Child of an African American father and a Chinese mother. But he was adopted by Tommy and Shelby Chong when he was a teen, when he was like sorry, like eleven. So Tommy Chong of Chichen Chong is this guy's adoptive father, and so I know totally, like I never realized that.
So he began acting at nine.
He's worked for a long time, and then he was in The Matrix as this character called Tank, and then he had this big problem with the Matrix where he wanted more money to be in the next Matrix movies and they didn't want to pay him, and he said he had a verbal agreement or whatever, and then basically they the Wachowski's Wakowski's who make those movies like rejected his demands and then he's not in those movies and it kind of ended his.
Career in a little bit of a way.
I mean, he hasn't been in a movie since twenty thirteen, and he hasn't done any TV since an episode of Burn Notice in twenty ten. So I think, I don't know what's going on. Maybe he's just like hanging out with his dad smoking weed. But interesting that I like he his biological father. It says was a sports reporter on his Wikipedia but I guess he was adopted by Tommy and Shelby Chong, so he is this exact ethnicity of the character.
I just thought that was interesting.
So now the top of Act four, Alex Cabot is walking in the courthouse halls and this lady lawyer slides up next to her and she's representing Darryl Gwan. And this attorney's name is Margo Nelson, played by Diane Baker, and I knew I recognized her from somewhere, and that is because she plays Senator Ruth Martin in Silence of the Lambs, Brooks Smith's mom, the one who he goes by the way Senata love you suit that.
He's talking to her.
So she's the one that's like, please help me find my daughter in Silence of the Lambs. And she's a classic actress who I guess has been in a ton of stuff, but she has not acted for a while. She's still alive, but I think maybe she's retired anyway.
She's kind of a fancy lawyer, and so you know, Cabot's like, this is a little bit above your below your pay grade or whatever, and she's like, oh, I'm defending Darryl probo now and she's asking Alex to keep the death penalty off the table, and Alex is like, girl, his crimes were premeditated. He targeted his victims, like based on their gender, race, like ancestry, all these things that
make it a hate crime. So that's in this escalation of a sentence right there, and she goes, he's not guilty of murder one, and Alex is like, how do you define guilt?
And then Margo gives the Dictionary.
Definition of guilt and then claims he's not reasoned by reason of mental disease or defect, and then she goes, my parents made me read the dictionary and walks away.
And I was like, I bet you're a lot of fun.
I think, like so cringe yef, like, I guess if you're young. But reading definitions from the dictionary to start a speech or anything is just it's bad.
No, my siblings did a speech for my wedding and Colin started out going Webster's Dictionary defines sister as but it was a joke, like he stopped. Of course, it was a funny, little funny little number from Collie Call.
It was just so bad. Yeah.
Yeah, But I also totally probably did that in papers when I was like in sixth grade and thought it was very clever.
Yeah, but as an adult it's bad. Yes, yes, don't do that.
If you're about to do a best man speech, a speech at work something, don't start with a dictionary definition. Okay, unless it's a hilarious joke and you figured out a way to flip it on his head. So anyway, Alex is now outside on the courtroom steps talking to executive Ada stan Valani. He is a character who's in four episodes of season three only. He's played by Ron Leebman, who also passed away and was married to Jessica Walter,
who's my absolute favorite from Arrested Development. They were like this super in love couple because I remember reading about them when she died, and they died within eighteen months of each other, so I feel like it was one of those things where they couldn't live without each other. And Margo wants to prove that Daryl inherited his violent tendencies, and Stan is like, well, what about the fry standard.
It has to be generally accepted by the scientific community, and Cabot's like, yeah, but it is kind of generally accepted that violence and genetics are linked, and he goes, linked, not causative, and Cabot's like, I don't know if a jury will be able to distinguish between the two, and she's like and he's like, well, that's your job to make them see between the two. And she's like, well, I've got Huang giving him a psych exam right now, and he goes, listen, if Margo pulls this off, it's
going to be Pandora's box. Everything can be blamed on Jean's No one will be responsible for their actions. So not a good precedence is set. So now we get to the interview with Daryl with between Huang and Darryl, which is a scene I always remember. It's like buried in my brain forever. And he's like, Wang goes, do you think you're crazy? And then he's like, well if I say that, do I get the death penalty or whatever?
And then he realizes Swang is Chinese and he goes, you're Chinese, right, and he goes, I am, and he goes me too, and then he goes, but you're only half, aren't you And it's like ouch, but I think you know Huang knows the buttons to push, so then he calls Huang in Chinese. He calls him something in Chinese, and Howang goes, you think I'm a privileged and spoiled landowner. Isn't that what native Chinese people call American born Chinese people?
But you're American born too, And he's like, yeah, Like I don't know. He just kind of handles that little diss and moves on, and then he's like, was it hard to grow up in Chinatown? And Darrel's like no, and he's like, because you speak the language really well, you know the customs probably better than I do, but in Chinatown you're still an outcast.
He goes, it didn't bother me. And then he's like, well, what do you know about your dad?
And he's like enough, he doesn't remember when he found out about the rape, but he said he was young and that his grandmother told him, and then he says the Chinese word for black devil, and his grandmother called him that. So Huang's like, well, how do you feel about your father? And he like leans into Huang with like a really creepy smile and he whispers, I'm nothing like him, and I always just remember that part being like h and then Huang's like, actually, bro, there's a
lot of similarities. You hurt people, you rape them, like fatherlike son. And then Darryl freaks out throws a chair at the one way glass, which we've seen many times, and then Live is on the other side of the glass and she looks like very taken aback by this whole turn of.
His, you know, into violence.
So now we're in court and Margo is asking this genetic expert named doctor Coffee and about violence genes, and he's like, oh, is there a gene for violence? And he goes, there's no exact violence gene, but violent behavior can be linked to several abnormal genes. And they're like, well, you tested mister gwand does he suffer from these genetic abnormalities. He's like, yes, he does, and his father has the exact same ones. So they're like, well, so would you
say he inherited these violent tendencies? Alex objects and says, with all your research, you cannot prove that. The judge agrees, And the judge is Harvey Adkin, who is Judge Alan ridden or also dead. A lot of people from this episode are dead, but a lot of people that are important to the SBU universe. This guy has done thirteen episodes as this judge, so we've seen him before. He's done a lot of good, big episodes we've covered. He says, let's keep it out of the realm of science fiction,
Margo or whatever, and then he explains. This guy explains like when somebody has cystic fibrosis, if the parents are both carriers, the child gets that disease. And if a child inherited the genes that made him violent, he would also have no way to avoid it. And it's possible that Starne's son was born violent as a result of these genetic defects. And Cabot objects and says, how did
we get from inherited genes to inherited behavior? And Margo goes, I'll speak slower and use smaller words so you can keep up with us, Like I thought you were trying to keep the death penalty off the table, bitch.
You can't keep sassing Cabot like this.
And so Cabot is like doctor Coffee has not proven inherited behavior.
Are we just going to make up theories as we go?
And Margo's like, no, let's just to you and assistant district attorney over a scientific expert. So these two are like, fully just bitch fighting in front of the whole jury, and the judge sustains Alex's objection and then Margo's like nothing further. And so then Alex gets up and expertly like, I just like love this next part.
She really just like handles it.
She's like, okay, so does everyone with this genetic abnormality become a rapist?
And he's like no.
She's like, okay, because with cystic vibrosis, which you brought up, if parents are carriers, you get it.
That's it.
If both parents are carriers, you get it. There's no avoiding it. That's not the case with your argument here. And he goes, well, a causative connection has yet to be established, and that's the whole fucking point. It has to be a causative connection. He also said there's other factors, like upbringing, and she's like, oh, interesting that you bring
up upbringing. You've never mentioned that before. So she's like, so violence is a combination of many factors, right, and he says yes, And then she's like, so you actually don't know shit about this and can't speak on this topic at all, and then Margo Margo objects, and the judge goes counselor, and Alex goes withdrawn. But she basically the same shit that Margo just did. So I think Alex did a good job of pointing out that these
are this is not like a legit argument. And then we cut to Margo's closing statement, She's like, genetics aside. Did Darryl Gwan choose to be the child of rape? Did he choose to be brought up in a community that hated him? Did he choose to have a genetic defect? Now that he's grown up and kind of turned into a monster, we just say, too bad. This boy was brought up in hell. His grandma called him the devil, and he was. He was engineered by nature and by nurture to be what he turned out to be. But
it's not his fault. And then Cabot's like, it's her turn, and she's like, he had a hard life. That's no excuse for murder. In society, we have to take responsibility for our actions. What is it to be human? It's not just genes, it's not just childhood experiences. He was in complete control. He selected his victims, and he tried to get away with it, like he brought bleach. He knew ways to, you know, get away with it. He chose the course of his life. And now he has
to take responsibility. And then we get a shot of Live looking very pensive in the gallery of the court, and then we cut too we don't get a verdict. Live Benson knocks on Huang's door to let him know Darrel's guilty on all charges, and Huang goes, this was a tough case for me.
Seems like it was tough for you too.
So now Live has to confess her personal life to Huang as well, saying she tells him she was the child of a rape and so for her or yeah, it was personal, And she's like, that's the biggest reason I became a cop and I joined us for you. I used to think it was because I wanted to do good and make a difference, but now I'm questioning it. Like in my job, I have to be aggressive, I have to be violent. I mean, let's think about how she slammed Daryl against a wall, even though he'd already
basically been apprehended. So then Huang says, you think that makes you like Daryl, and she goes, I keep trying to convince myself that he had a choice. But if he had this violence inside of him, then did he have a choice? Does anyone? And she's tearing up and he goes, you don't hurt people, you protect them. Your proof that we do have a choice, and she goes, or maybe I'm just lucky, And then executive producer Dick Wolf Baby.
Kind of a wild one, this one.
I mean, I do like, I don't agree with what Darryl Gwand does, but I do feel horrible for a kid that grows up in a culture where no one accepts him and is literally called names and bullied his whole fucking life. He's going to turn into a monster, you know, Yeah, but not that you can get away with this crime.
Jail bitch.
Anyway, That's that a classic, classic, classic, And I'm looking forward to hearing about the crime because I don't think I know.
Well, you know what, I actually always get this one and the foot one mixed step all the time.
Yes, but they are different, I do too, but they are similar in my mind. At one point, when we were like planning air this long time ago, I thought Oh yeah, the half Asian, half black guy who cuts off women's feet, Like yeah, different, it's a different thing.
Yeah.
The crime, you guys are it's infuriating. Stay tuned, okay, and we're back. And this crime happens in France. It's guy Georges and they've nicknamed him the Beast of the Bastille and Bastille is a neighborhood in Paris and that's where most of his crimes took place, so that's what he was called nicknamed when he was terrorizing Paris. So he was born in France in the sixties, and he's classic, you know, trouble kid in the social care system, and
he's a sicko, a fucking sicko. He assaulted thirteen women before, even before he went on to this murder spree where he was eventually convicted of murdering seven women between nineteen ninety one and nineteen ninety seven. He was raped his victims, he tortured them and murdered them.
Not good, okay.
And this guy, like in the episode, he was half black, so he was like an Afro European is official description. And this caused a lot of problems for him in his life. He was a well built guy. This was his official description, is that he is a well built guy, physically vigorous dude who is tidy, clean, shy, an IQ of one oh one, which I don't know what that means, and then verbal skills above average.
So that's the official description. Yeah, I don't actually know what a high IQ is.
I guess because although over one forty is a genius, one twenty to one forty is superior intelligence, but ninety to one oh nine it says normal or average. So I think basically they're just trying to tell you that he's not like dull.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, chatty Kathy. So he was really popular in the Paris squatting scene.
Cool.
Yeah, he was known as like, uh a swath, cool guy with all the squatters, and he would squash beefs and was just like a cool dude. But everyone was like shocked and they're like, we would never have suspected this double life. And it's like, squatters don't have a double life. What the hell are you talking about? Like, even if it's a choice, like you don't end up squatting without a double life. I'm sorry they.
Anybody has a double life. I have like three friends whose dad had secret families. I mean, you just like can't say who would have a double life, you know, like anybody I know.
I also really love the new memes circulating that's like women moms would never be able to have a double life or a second family.
Yes, we're so fucking busy.
Can you imagine I'll be back in a couple hours, just gonna go be with my second family.
Never never, wait, did I tell you?
You know how I do crowd work with dads and so, And I was like asking this dad, I'm like, what's the longest time you spent alone with your child? And he said while she's awake, and so obviously that's not good. And then and then the answer came out five hours, and you know that wasn't good. The reactions were mixed in the crowd, the place got tense, and then the dad finally went whatever, I never said. I was a
good dad. And then I heard later that the couple was fighting, that he was rubbing the like the wife's back and she wasn't having it, and that it caused a real big issue with Oh, the couple, it's not my problem, but I guess they were drinking tall boys.
I don't know what to tell you, but yeah.
Maybe you should have got Maybe you should have stayed home with the baby that night. Maybe this was the show for you. Maybe this wasn't the show for you, sir.
No, I can say my husband stayed home for eight days with our kids by himself, seven days, I mean, with some child wildcare involved as well.
But the fact that it's even a question to be asked is an issue to me. Yeah, I think that's the point. But you know whatever, the rubbing of the back was funny.
He was probably proud of himself when he said five hours too. He's probably like five hours, like the right, the right amount of time, the time that most dads spend.
But I just love that on SVU.
If a mom just has a joint, it's like, you know, we need to burn her in the steak, right, Like that's.
I played charades. I played charades and took two hits of weed. Get CPS in here and get her kids away from her.
Yeah.
So on all accounts back to guys, George, popular Squatter, average IQ and uh and all accounts a psychopath who stabbed women with butcher knives, and he was a loner, and he would prowl through Paris at night and he would pick women out of a crowd who seemed confident, had energy, and he would feed on their energy. And he would take these powerful, fun women and he would make them submit to his power.
And that's what he got off, got off on.
Four psychiatrists studied him after he went into custody, and taking him into custody took decades.
You guys are.
Going to be so pissed hearing the journey of this guy in his crimes. Get put buckle up. Buckle up, whether you're in a car or not, buckle up. So one of the psycho psychiatrists, doctor Henry grin Span, it's green Span, but French so have fun.
No, I don't know, maybe he's from a different criticy.
It's so funny to me that this guy's name is Onnri and then his last name is grin Span. I mean there's no way to say that in French. So like glass Band, like Hanri, grin.
Span like it is.
It is gonna be like horrific crimes. You guys are gonna be angry. And then I think you will giggle a little bit with me trying to pronounce all these people's names, and I'll try to be respectful as possible, because you know, the victims suffered. But yes, so what what Henry uh didn't even do that accident? Okay, so what Henry said was end quote. What was unbearable for him was the other person's successful life, which reflected his
own feelings of frustration and failure. The psychiatrists became obsessed with him, like little fanboys instead of disgust, which also like fully pisses me off, Like they became fascinated by this man who hid his real nature.
And it's like we all fucking do it.
Like I'm just so sick of these people that are like, ooh, this double life.
We couldn't believe it.
And it's like, yeah, you know, most people just binge eat in the dark, you know what I mean? Like I don't like, don't you don't have to stab someone to death because you're sad, Like I just fucking hate this. Well.
I think that they look at it like people sometimes look at it like it's some kind of spy movie and they're like, how cool that they were able to pull this off, And it's like, no, you were like murdering people in your free time, that's what you were doing. Yeah, Or it's like the lying and manipulating. It's like, I guess we're all capable of it and we choose not to.
It's not like some impressive diabolical thing, like oh fuck, because we've been talking a lot about this because of scandabal and like vander Pomp and like yet.
You're not, it's sick. You're just your scum, your fucking scum. And of course this man had girlfriends the whole time, of course, and one of his girlfriends, Sandrine, recalled that he made love to her on average eight times a day, okay, Larsa and constantly talked about starting a family in the
squatting area. So how did this all happen? He was abandoned by his mother when he was six, so not good, and his father's identity was concealed from him by this illegal maneuver, which the psychiatrists call a genealogical death, so like not knowing your pastor parents or anything. They call it a genealogical death, which I guess you know is
hard for people, not not trivializing it. But so his mother abandoned him to state custody because she wanted to marry a US service man and leave to California, where she still lives to this day. And she took her other son with her, Stefan, and he was three years older than his brother and conceived by another American. She was really hot for Americans. The difference between the two boys is Stefan is white and Guy is black, and so both were fathered by military dudes.
She just like loves military vibes.
So Stefan's dad was a white US serviceman and Guy's father was a US military cook stationed at a NATO base, And so her family was down to take Stefan, but refused Guy because he was black.
So very closely tied to the episode.
And even during the six years she had Guy, he bounced from Foster, her homes and his mother's house and her. The mom's house was in a super stuffy provincial town. And I always think of where a belle from Beauty and the Beast lived, so very judgmental.
There must be more than this provincial life. Yeah, yeah, you know.
There's Baker's, there's a lot of eggs, there's a book shop. This is this is what I'm imagining there's a beast who lives in a mansion with a bunch of dancing cutlery.
Yeah, it's like that. It's that, Yeahah.
And the town there was an intolerable social stigma attached to mixed race birth, and so he did not have a good upbringing at all. So it was like he was either in this like horrible town where the mom's family hated him, the town hated him, or he was in like bouncing around to foster homes. And then when he was finally given up as a ward of the state, a condition of the abandonment was the the they issued a new birth certificate with false information to prevent him
from ever knowing his origins. And that's what I said earlier about this genealogical death type thing. This practice was eventually banned in nineteen ninety six since it's a deprivation of basic rites. His surrogate mother was Gene Morin, and she was Catholic as hell. So she had twelve foster children and seven of her own.
Damn. Yeah, so classic Catholic.
And he started stealing from his family, you know, classic kind of killer vibes, got a knife and started to hunt and kill animals very early, and then at sixteen he attacked two of his foster sisters. He attempted to strangle his adoptive sisters Rosalin and Christian in the seventies and because of these attacks, he was placed into a
state orphanage for adolescence at seventeen. In nineteen seventy nine was his first non familial assault, the attempted strangulation of a woman, Pascal Sea, but thank god, she was able to escape and he was arrested by police and then released a week later. Jesus one week okay, So that was great because then he was able to commit two
more attacks. So in May nineteen eighty he did two separate attacks on women, Joscelyn S and Rosalind C. They were both attacked and Roslin was stabbed in the fucking face. Oh my god, both of them survived, Thank god. He was arrested and he served a year and then released. So he ran around Paris committing petty crimes. And then finally in nineteen eighty one, he committed his first rape
and with stabbings. It was his neighbor Natalie C. And he left her for dead, but again, thank god, she survived. And then in nineteen eighty two, he attacked another victim who escaped, Violet K and she was raped, stabbed, and strangled but lived, thank goodness.
He was then only sentenced to eighteen months in prison.
Wait, in what world is that's attempted murder twice and rape?
That's fucked up? Paris what's going on?
Like it's you know, because we think America is so fucked and it is, but it's everywhere. Men are everywhere, the justice systems, it's everywhere. Like what the fuck are we talking about? And obviously I don't love living in like a prison state that's like so racist and fucked.
But it's like.
What, yeah, but it's like which one were we talking about? I mean, I I'll never remember it because like but it was like a guy who.
The Scotland one. It was the London Scotland.
Yeah, Like he did one thing and then they put him in for like a year, and then another one and then it's like it's like this is escalation of behavior.
It's truly insane.
Eighteen months for rape, strangulation, stabbing, nabbing women for deaths, Like what the fuck?
Lock this fucker up?
He doesn't want to stop and right when he's released, he goes back. So February nineteen eighty four, this motherfucker attacks another Pascal, so Pascal in he rapes this woman, stabs her, she survives, alerts police, and finally they put him away for ten years. So but for me, it's like he's proven he doesn't want to stop, so like why ten years is still not even enough in my eyes, Like, yeah, it doesn't make sense to me, so so whatever, But
he's such a good boy in jail. By the end of his sentence, they allow him for day releases, so I guess in France you're allowed to like.
Go out and hang out for the day and then go back to jail. Yeah, give me a break.
But so he's allowed to do field trips and then one time he just doesn't come back.
Why would he come back?
So January twenty fourth, that night he didn't return to prison. He just went to Paris committed a murder. He killed a nineteen year old student, Pascal Escrafell. God, every woman in Parison's time is named Pascal. Then went back to prison a week later and was like, what's up, guys, And that's it, and they released him April fourth, nineteen ninety two.
He doesn't get tried or added sentencing on for the I don't know if he was called. He wasn't called.
He just like murdered someone and went back and like, I don't think they tied it to him, nothing, like, oh my god, he just.
He didn't even do ten years. Because you said they got him in eighty four. He was out in ninety two. That's not even ten Yeah.
Fuck, okay, just committed a murder, didn't go back to jail on his release, and that's that. Then he assaulted and attacked more people. A woman named eleanor, a woman named Annie, Elizabeth, Melanie, Valerie, all attacked and then he went on and murdered for six more years. He took the lives of Catherine Rocher twenty seven years old, Elsa Bennati twenty two, Agnes I think that's Nike, Agnes Nicamp thirty two, Helene Franking twenty seven, Megali Serati nineteen and
Estelle Magged twenty five. And I apologize if I said any of those names wrong. May all of these women rest in peace. I am so sorry for the horrific way that you had to die at the hands of these this deranged lunatic and the horrific way that the fucking France dealt with this man.
How are they not just like after the first body pops up, revisiting him like I'm so con like six years of just murdering.
Yeah. Wow.
Five of the women were killed in their Paris apartments, four of them around midnight. Two of the other women were found raped with their throat throats cut in underground car parks. Now, during the murder spree, he also found time to like assault women in the Bastille area for
fun as well. So March twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, is finally arrested in montmart and it took forever to get him because, according to the Guardian, it was slappy police work because rival police squads like weren't weren't working together.
So like some were working on the murders in the flats, you know, like in the apartments, and then like some were working on the underground car parks, and they failed to see the link between the two series of killings, despite several striking similarities obviously between all of these killings, and so and also the police were just very sure that serial killers were a white thing, and so they were just stubborn and they refused to believe like a black person could do it.
So they just refused.
To investigate him as a serial killer. And so that obviously caused time, like cost time and lives. One of the victims, Helene, the police didn't even question any of the neighbors until twenty three months after she was killed.
I'm sure their memories were sho his tacks two years later, Jesus.
And then one of his surviving victims, like they first sketch artists to do a portrait, it wasn't drawn until twenty eight months after the attack. Fucking crazy and so and then there were just like tons of other accurate descriptions from survivors and witnesses that were straight up ignored. And also let's not forget that they had him under arrest multiple times before this, linking him to all these crimes and then just kept letting him go whatever. So
after his arrest, he did confess to police. Following his arrest, and there was DNA found at four of the crime scenes. For his trial, he was found legally sane and you know, fit to stand trial, but he was declared a narcissistic psychopath, which makes sense and proven because even though he confessed and there was DNA, he still pled not guilty to the charges very sand of all, and the psychiatrists decided that he saw his victims not as people, only as
objects to support hisse attempts to appropriate their inner qualities. Eventually, he did just admit guilt and was sentenced to life on April fifth, two thousand and one, without the possibility of parole for twenty two years.
But like, why even the possibility of parole.
Yeah, this is a person that literally can't stop killing and doesn't see people as people. And it took twenty four years for him to get life of like him committing crimes.
It's insane wild. He is alive today.
He is in jail, he's at the Maison Centrell and his time or whatever. He says, he feels at home in prison and he really thrives there and it is where he belongs. So have fun in there, you fucker. He is too dangerous to be on the outside. And he said that himself. He knows he belongs in prison, and he is a true, true narcissist. He does not believe it's his fault. He told one of the psychiatrists.
I don't see why I should be the only one to pay for this, And he is referring to the lax way the French prison system let him out even though they diagnosed him as extremely dangerous nearly twenty years ago, and after they let him go onto the streets is without any treatment, money, or care.
So I'm with him there like.
They legitterate, like, wow, this extremely dangerous psychopath, get back out there.
Oh day release, have fun. Yeah.
He also, of course feels resentment for his birthright and how it was stolen from him, and that officials obstructed his attempts to find his father, and so that's why he stabbed and murdered and raped young women.
Cool, really unique.
And then also I think he kind of lost it because then he started to claim that he was framed by the French secret service because he supposedly stole an official limousine carrying confidential documents. Okay, that's a final thing. Netflix does have a documentary. I did not watch it. I turned it on and then I went, you know what, I don't want to watch it, not today, not today. Well, if anyone wants to, yes, if anyone wants to, and you're in the headspace, which I was not in. It
is called The Woman, The Women and the Murderer. So if you would like to watch The Women and the Murderer, it is on Netflix and it is about the Beast of best Steel and you can learn more about him.
I never heard about this case. Wow. Interesting, It's really.
Not that much to read about him, Like I couldn't find that many sources, but I'm sure there's tons in French. But yeah, fuck police a cab forever everywhere, all the time, like.
Go for it.
Also, I mean, I like to think that nowadays this wouldn't happen, but it probably would. I mean, like you know, like who the Scotland one that we were to, or the Scotland yard or what was the ripper and he was doing it like yeah, they just he was right there, like and they he just slipped through their fingers a million times and it's like, I don't know, it doesn't feel like it's very very different from the US to the UK, to bears brands you know all over the place of the Coulture.
No, it's probably like a personality trait that you want to be a cop that probably makes you the worst too.
Yeah.
And also I feel like a lot of times, especially when there's like somebody that's now the beast of best deal and it becomes like a myth, and then they all want to get the credit. So like the warring different, Like cops are like all trying to win the win the big prize at the end instead of working together and just fucking finding the guy, you.
Know, while like young women are getting fucking murdered.
Yeah, what a scary that must have been.
Like, I mean, but that's like a round sun of sam time. Right, It's like there's just no cool city in the world to live in where women are not just getting murdered left and right.
It's just like, if you're stabbing in what do you mean a year?
What do you mean a week? Like, what do you mean ten years? Put him out? Lock him up, lock him up. What I don't understand. I don't understand releasing people like that that are stabbing women in the face with butcher knives, like.
And strange women. Understand strange women.
It's not like these are crimes of passion or something, which I also don't like. I'm not like giving those a pass, but I'm just saying he's out there targeting, you know, fucked up. All right, Well, thanks for doing all that research, and we have a great guest. We had a We're really excited for you guys to hear this interview, so stay right where you.
Are, guys.
Our guest today is an actor who has worked steadily for the last twenty years. He's had recent roles in Clause, one of my faves, and the DCTV series Stargirl, and he was also in the live action version of Mulan NBD. And you know him also from another episode of SVU called Counselor It's Chinatown, but on today's episode you know him as the slippery Johnny Chen. Guys, enjoy our convo with the very talented Nelson Lee Nelson welcome, Thank.
You so much. No, no, not at all. It is so much fun. It's funny because I had to actually go back and watch it because I was like, it's been forever. You're a baby, I am an actual baby.
If your gelled up, spiky hair and like god, silver bead necklace.
Yeah, that thing that choker I had on was like amazing. I wish it was mine, but it was well.
Because it's also so hard sometimes to get people from those older episodes and like to remember stuff.
So thanks for watching it too.
Of course, of course, no, I was kind of.
Interested, and we just saw you so recently in the Counselor It's Chinatown episode, so I was like, that's yeah in this episode.
And I was like, oh my god, is that him? Because you just look so young. You're like a little baby.
I know. Yeah, I graduated to a detective. That's when you know you're older.
You stopped being in a gang, you went to the police academy.
Wow.
Yeah, I went clean Stabler, like, they put me on the right track. You're good. Huge.
But the Dick Wolf Universe were your like first official jobs, yeah, as an actor. Yeah. You know.
It's funny because I always think and I can't remember, but I almost think that OZ was my first job. But I think, but it's it's always listed as the first before, but I honestly cannot remember. But they came at the same kind of time. And the only reason I think it was OZ was first because I remember being on Law and Order, like, hey, I just saw you. Because he was also, of course Chris Maloney also on OZ. I mean that was when back in the day when everyone in New York was like in everything.
Yeah, so we hear he's like a serious, maybe prickly guy.
Did he remember you?
Was he like, oh, yay, Actually, it's funny he did. And he was super kind and you're super kind. He was always very and you know, because I was literally straight out of school. And there's a scene right and it's funny because I watched inhered As, I'm like, yee, but it's you know, it's funny. But I remember having like a little bit of problem. I remember he was just like, hey, it's just after lunch, don't worry about it. And he was like super cool, and it was it
totally relaxed me. Oh that's nice, yeah, very nice and unnecessary for him to do, but he did.
What did you do? You remember what you were doing?
I think I'm just really nervous, you know, it's like my you know, it's honestly, I just I don't think I even realized that. I remember when I was working on OZ, I had no concept of editing, and so I was constantly like on because I didn't know when I wasn't on camera that I wasn't being filmed, and so I was just like and everyone's coming like you're doing such a good job. Yeah, thank you. And I just didn't have any clue about editing or angles anything.
So even by that point, I was still nervous about, you know, when action was called and when to do stuff. So yeah, it was it was nice from the comb nerves.
You were holding your own. I mean, you were being interrogated by like Christopher Maloney.
Yeah, I know, they're badasses, and that's funny when I was watching, like, oh, it's good. I mean for a kid, it's not bad.
Did you go to school for theater? Were you a theater?
Yeah?
I did. I went to Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York and yeah, so when I popped out, it was I was lucky. I was one of the lucky ones. I kind of went right to work. So yeah, yeah, you know, and it just doesn't happen these days. And you know, I was like, you know, I was single card build and guest stars, like I don't even know what those things meant back then, but I was like cool, you just thought that that's how it always was. But yeah, you.
Were like also like fuck yeah, free snacks.
Oh yeah, oh my god. I was like because what At first, you're like that's for someone else, Like, well I could have and you're like, oh, have one. You realize you can have all of it.
Did you tell your hair like that in your personal life or was that very much character?
Like oh my god, yeah, like was my head shot Like that's basically like me and a headshot, like I wish I had one. Yeah, but it's literally like yeah, no, that was My hair was like dragon ball z. It was like very hair and makeup.
I don't even do anything.
Just yeah I And they're like you're good, Yeah, you're good.
Wow, And it was was it intense to shoot with her co star who was like in that metal thing and her jaws shutting stuff.
Well, the hard thing is with that you can't really talk to them, so you're like, you're doing great.
Yeah that scene where she just was going, I know, I know, just talking, I know, just talking over So do you remember any like other like do you remember any fun little tidbits from like being on set from that first episode when you did Inheritance?
I mean, you know, it's funny. It's like there's a scene and I forgot, like in my memory, I only had like that one scene with my sister.
No, but then they all win and they slam you down interrogation.
Yeah, and that's and that's the best part because I forgot about that because I remember I was, you know, being I was handcuffed from behind and I kept we kept doing this take with this this extra is pushing me into the cop car, right and you're supposed to be really hard, and I have no way to stop myself. And I'm letting him because I'm like, okay, game on, this is this is acting, and we're going to do this. And I was kind of getting injured and Iced Tea again,
nicest guy, and you know, it's funny. I worked with him recently again, but he's kind of like, hey, take it easy, like he told the game in and like told the guys, oh, I'm sorry you guys, like, I mean, yeah, you can go a little lighter.
Maybe.
I was like, maybe maybe let me lead you. I was like, I'll pretend to be thrown. But it was like because I was full on getting just like slammed take after take, and I was like, this is acting. I could take it.
But yeah, no for Iced Tea getting in there.
Iced Tea is the nicest, nicest dude, Like even even now twenty three seasons later, he was exactly like the same chill dude.
Well, so when you came back, did like, did people remember you know what?
I don't think so. And I never was going to be like, hey remember me twenty three seasons ago? How dare you forget me? Yeah? No, you know, I was tempted to. And also I think I was there for their like twentieth Yeah. I believe it was like their twentieth season like celebration, so that I was literally on we were doing a scene all of us. It was like me and Marishka and everyone basically, and we're doing anything about what we were going to do, and they're
all talking about the party. Later I was like, sound's fun. But I didn't you invite it? But it's okay. I'm like that would be great. What time is it? I was like, I'm like, so free tonight. But no, they did invite me.
We covered that episode.
We had Margaret Show on for Oh yes, she was so she talked about I mean, look, the great thing about his show, it's covered some horrific things. But luckily I think that kind of goes the other way with the people you have fantastic actors and people, and and she was one of them. She was so nice, and you know, I was kind of like, oh, my god's market show. Yeah, you know that table raid was pretty intimidating. Yeah.
Yeah, we couldn't believe when we got her on the podcast. We love her so much.
Well, it was even wilder because we were really new at the time and she contacted us.
It was like, wow, she knew or like our boss. I don't know. She was like I listened, get me on it, and.
So it was an extra special, exciting, that's so cool moment for us.
That's amazing.
But she called Peter Scanavino a a Scandinavian prince.
Is that how you would describe him or what?
You know, what you used? I absolutely wouldn't. Here's a little funny tidbit about Peter. I went to school with Peter,
and I also bartended with people. So it's so it's it's so funny because and I'll be honest, I kind of forgot and I got to the table read and Peter's like, hey, no, So it was like hey, and I was like, oh my god, yes, I was like because it would literally took my mom because you know, he looks a little different, and you know he's got his he's coming straight from setting, so he's got his like nice suit on, and so I was like, hey, nice meat. She's like, no, that was it's me the
Academy b Bar. I was like, oh my god.
I was like, yes, wait where did you guys bartend.
Together at the b Bar on Bowery in therapy?
Yes?
I went there.
Yeah, I bet you did. Everyone did. I worked there for years, for too many years.
What are the drinks you make?
I mean that that was luckily for me back in the day when mixology was not a thing, and I was taught by very by a very mean scanning him funny enough Swedish bartender. She taught me just like anyone asked Rand and he's like, no, next, I can give you a shot. No, get out of here next. So that's that was my style of New York bartending. So anything with a stir I did not do. So I
escaped you just like, wow, shot, I made cosmos. I made Cosmos was the most extravagant because you had to in New York at that time, right, And Apple teenies, Apple teenies, and yeah.
I remember Apple teeny time I made a good apple.
Teen don't don't shiver. I actually used to make some for myself back behind the bar.
You can only go one. It's so much sugar.
Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty sweet.
I'm just shivering because freshman year I drank too much apple pucker and had a big incident.
So I just I just with that flavor profile.
Yeah, that'll do it. But yes, back to back to Peter being a prince. He is indeed a prince. He is such a nice guy. I am so happy that he, you know, was on that show and has been such an integral part of it. So yeah, I can't.
I just am still excited for you guys bartending together.
You guys should I had a script?
Yeah, Like, was it like cocktail? Were you guys throwing each other bottles and stuff?
It was not nearly that exciting. It was us looking angry and sad behind the bar, wearing a Guia era shirt because we all were forced to wear these shirts, and you know, just like sweating outside because they had the outdoor patio and it'd just be like, you know, New York summers.
Yes, seriously, wonder if either of you has ever served me a drink one of these like the I have.
Did you when su started acting? Did you still up to bartend or was.
It like, well what I did? Was this a lovely dance of quitting and coming back every time of like I'm done, I'm going to big time And like a year later.
Hey guys, you need to pay my brother exactly.
I take back what I said. Luckily, I never left badly, so so it's just like I came back and forth, yes, but it's nice to finally yeah, I bet.
Was it like, did you notice like a big shift when you went from like when you came back in season twenty one? Were you like, oh, it's kind of the same old around here, or was it like very different?
I mean, I guess it's only different because it's different for me as an actor coming back. You know, it's so's it was nice, but it's still the same kind of thing and everyone's having They're having a ton of fun, so maybe you know it was it's a lot maybe a little looser, but they're all still doing the thing because they've done it for so long. It's just like having fun and then boom serious and really good. So you know, it's kind of like I remember when I
did an episode with Jerry Orbach bless him. It's one of the best and greatest, and he was literally a sleep between takes, but never like not dull at all. He'd like action awake and sharp, oh my sharp like that, just like just a pro being good and when you you know they.
Train, they take micro naps in between takes.
It was amazing. I was like, is he asleep? He's full on asleep, and then actually he was like, oh wow, he was back.
They really used your character in like a cool way. In season twenty one. I thought that they'd have you back, like I thought there'd be like more of you.
I would be like I was hoping to.
See that they were like, oh, okay, this guy's in charge of this big operation, like we're going to be seeing him, and yeah, I.
Kind of was hoping to be brought back. So you never know, never no trust me. Especially when organized crime happened. I was like, hey, everyone, how about Detective Chin.
You know, yeah, let's get some help with I mean, honestly, that would be a cool next step because they've.
Already done.
Army Albanians and then they just did They've done a bunch of other stuff, and I feel like it would be cool because your expertise is like Chinatown and if they got into like some of the Asian gangs.
Yeah, you know exactly, Yeah, think that would Because I had a friend that was just on organized crime and he was talking about the next stuff being Asian.
I'm like, we're hopeful, but okay, let's get a call.
You're a Dick Wolf Universe character, Let's get you in there.
Yeah, I know, I would love that it would be made. Look, you'd be a dream just to be in New York and be in those shows. They're always so much fun and everyone's so lovely.
Yeah, Operation Dragon Sleigh exactly.
It was absolutely called that.
And then we have like we call them bingo moments, like epic kind of sview moments, and you got to do one which is like arrest someone in a public thing.
Yeah, with Kelly Giddish.
Was that as my film as it is for us to like watch as a viewer.
It was so much fun because also, you know, Kelly is amazing too, Like everyone's so lovely, Like Kelly's lovely, you just and we're just being able to be over there and like, you know, let the old man speak and then we go and it's always fun to do that fun fast like hop walk with a badge and screaming out names, you know, as you go up you're under rest like it's it's awesome.
It never gets And she was on our podcast too, the woman who plays the the head like Masks was like the rich lady.
Yes, yeah, she was great. Yees, she was lovely well and Kelly Giddish Yes, and Kelly, oh.
Yes, we're collecting everyone from that episode.
We just need Scanavino.
You gotta get.
Do you go back and forth between playing like really really bad guys and like really really good guy like cops and then well not like all cops are good, but you know what I'm saying in the TV world, sure, because like I'm seeing you in Claus, one of my favorite shows, that you're.
Like a really bad guy in that right.
I was very bad in that. I remember, yeah, yeah, my entrance is I sliced the throat of a regular on the show and I hadn't watched it, so everyone and I remember everyone was like saying goodbye. I was like, did I just do something really bad? I was like, I was like, hi, I'm sorry. It's like hello and you're dead. Like I literally walk up behind her and slice her throat as my entrance.
That show is so wild.
That's of course how they would give you an entrance. Like it's such a while but but yeah, so what do you it feels. Do you feel like you do mostly extremes like good guy action or like bad guy like Underground.
I'm still I'm starting to like take a little closer to good guys sometimes, but I'm still very much of the bad guy, you know, but just different, you know, different kind of shades of it. But yeah, it is nice every time I get to you know, when you get to like on Chinatown, that was great to be a detective and to be on the right side. But yeah, but I definitely am not, you know. I sometimes I've
read from any a dad role. Now you know, I'm in my I'm getting there in my forties and in my forty seven, and you know it's I could have easily have kids. But it's still funny. They're always like, no, we don't see you as a dad. You killed, Yeah, exactly.
Is your long hair personal decision or for film TV?
Like well, you know, yeah, it's it's actually gone through many like COVID happened, and I'd done I've done Mulan right before, and I'd kind of been growing it since then, and then COVID hit and I was like, it's five oh yeah. And I also I was doing the show called Stargirl where I was like basically a superhero but in a hood all the time, so it didn't matter how long my hair was. So it's just kind of
going with it. And then COVID came and it just like kind of kept growing and by the end there was like, I don't know, if you've seen a picture, there's a picture of me, like I did better things.
That was weird questions. That's a favorite shows.
Really, so that was a fun that was super fun. She's awesome, but uh but yes, that was like past my shoulder. And after that episode, I was like, cut this off. So I've been short slowly coming back up and I think I've been on a couple of shows now so I've had to keep it, but I think after the matching goes, I might cut it back to actually the length of on Law and Order. I liked that length when I was a detective. It wasn't too in my way, but it was just long enough. That was like kind of cool.
Totally.
Do you feel like having your long hair helped you secure your better things part as a.
Oh, I think absolutely yeah that that hair was dumb, Like that hair was stupid long, and yes, sometimes, like you know, I got a roll on Madam's secretary once because I had a shaved head from an their thing, and I literally for the audition, I had like a red tablecloth and I remember saying my friends like, watch me book this right now, and I was like, put on this like tablecloth, glad is shaved. I was like, boom.
It's just when you make it, when you make it that easy for them, it's they're like, there he is, damn form on.
In the cartoon. He's like a goofy old man. Yeah, like an attractive young man. So did you like crush the audition and they changed it?
They wanted you like what? How did I think that?
Yeah? I mean I think Nikki always had her mind something very different. Obviously, of course everyone's like, where's moose shoe. I'm like, yeh here, but you know, but yeah, so even that it was very different. And I think with Jet they just, you know, they just want something different. But Yeah, it was. It was an interesting, very different so I know some people are pretty disappointed that they didn't have certain things, especially Mooshoo.
But yeah, it was a different vie. But were you pumped to.
That, Oh my god, Yeah it was. It was like obviously the biggest thing. It was like a three hundred million dollar movie, and I like, you know, it was I'd never been on sets like that. You know, we're all in New Zealand. It was amazing. It's beautiful. You're on these sets that they're talk about building, like they built everything so it's all real. It's all practical. So those thrones, those palaces are all real. So they built
that stuff, and it was it's amazing. You're standing on these huge sets and you have this like massive, you know, crane camera coming up sweeping around and they're on the god mic just like ah, actually, it's it's pretty. It's it's magical, and it's like you're like, oh, well, oh my god. Yeah, I gotta remind myself that you know, this is this is happening.
But yeah, so different in Zealand a while.
Yeah, it was like a few months, so a lot of those guys were there for like six so but it was and and talk about a beautiful place. New Zealand is epic and just like so awesome. Yeah exactly. And you know, especially go South Island, You're like, oh my god, it's like you see like the old the ring stuff, and it's yeah, it's so cool. It's like prehistoric without any bugs. Like that's the cool, like there are no, it's not like Australia when everything's trying.
To kill you. Yes, just like Scorpio.
Yeah yeah, no, it's just like it's like little bird like flightless birds walking and waddling around. That's like as dangerous as it gifts.
I love that.
Do you have like stuff coming up that you are excited about or what's I mean?
Obviously I am he's.
Only so accurate. I never know what people are really up to.
Yeah, of course there's a So there's a couple of things right now. I'm on a show on ABC called Company You Keep. I just have a small little arc on that, and then I have another show on free Form Disney that's called Good Trouble. Oh, and then so I'm I'm a new character and that's this this new season coming out, and I've got a couple of things
coming out. And I think there's an amazing film I did last year that should hopefully be coming out in May that Alex Garland did and with Cares and Dunce Lemons and Wagner or Mora, like huge amazing casts called Civil War. It's it was like the most intense and amazing acting job about.
The Civil War is about us Civil War.
I can't tell you it literally, but it is, but it is.
IMDb says plot is under wraps.
Yes, god, so the name is Civil War, got it? But that is. And then there's another show that I can't talk about either, but that's I'm very excited about, but that I'm not sure when that released. Oh my gosh.
Booked and Blessed baby exciting.
Yeah, very very exciting. Yeah, no, it's very I'm very very lucky. Yeah, so it's any time I get to, you know, work, it's.
Not just luck, because it seems like you got booked right out of school and then have been consistently.
Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's been a really nice writing. Look, there's always ups and downs, and there's some projects you're like, but you know, but then you get the better ones and You're like, this is great. You know you gotta you gotta pay your dues.
I loved when you called him slippery in the intro.
That was Casey. I gotta give that to Casey. Casey scripted that slippery for me. He is a slippery little He is a slippery little uh two thousands boy. He reminds me of like like he looks like in that episode. He looks like he would be one of the guys from No Doubt when they first like yeah to the scene, you know, the chunky necklace, the spiky hair.
Emo night baby.
I'm obsessed with Nelson in many ways. He was fun to chat.
With, such a like just like a light person, like just so nice and like smiling and just like wow, I'm so happy I have had all these opportunities and I can't believe that like him and Careesy like definitely served me at b Bar one time. Like I went there all the time when I was in the page program and I probably ordered like one mixed drink because I was so poor, but I'm sure they gave it.
To me one time. So what did we learn.
Let's not be racist, because if someone is genetically predisposed to violence, you're really just making it worse, and then.
The only reason, yeah, you're making it worse. Just stop.
No, And also, yeah, just don't be racist, I feel like is a central theme of our podcast.
But it's like so fucked to see like a baby child and not be cured of racism. Like I don't get it. Yeah, I really don't understand how you keep being so hateful.
Towards so much a kid.
Yeah, because adults they're annoying, of course, and then you can find any reason to be hateful, like you know, like once you're an adult, like racism sucks, but okay, but to look into like a little child and be like ah, yeah I've taken this fuck this kid, like what the fuck?
What's so crazy? Yeah?
So sad I also learned getting jaw wired shut nightmare.
And you don't want that, you know, I don't want that.
Also, I mean, I guess Johnny Chinnon wasn't the criminal, but he did leave his sister.
Don't leave your siblings behind.
Yeah yeah, no sibling left behind. You got to scoop her uppie, although I don't know, maybe she had a spinal injury and she ended up she did have a spinal injury. Her fucking head was in like head gears. Maybe you better he did it.
Move you sit next to her, and then you get go down and you go down for the robbery. You know, you do the acting skills and you go.
I don't know what happened, my sister.
You don't have to be in the robbery. Oh okay, you didn't learn. You didn't take improv with your crime troop, you know what I mean?
I didn't think.
I just think sp is going to see right through that, especially when they see this guy's a known gang affiliated man.
But the spiky necklace, yeah.
Yeah, and then laser tattoo, think why was he That was a weird thing too. Why was he getting the tattoo lasered off? Because you wanted to be in the gang, but his gang just did the robbery. I think it's hard to leave a gang. Okay, yeah, I don't think you can get so leave. We learn we need more gangs where women are members, because I feel like they would be better organized, less.
Violent women led gangs. Yeah, women led gangs. Let's look into it. Anyway. We can move on.
What would sister Peg do for this week? That is our weekly segment where we direct you to an organization.
No, we learned other things. Fuck acab France, how about that? Oh yeah, fuck Paris, Fuck I'm fuck You're you're mad at us because we're annoying Americans wearing sneakers. Well, fuck you for not putting rapists stab you guys.
Just let a guy murder for twenty years and gave him like slaps on the wrist for rape.
Jesus ah, he just stabbed a woman in the face. Give him ten months insane truly and continue.
Okay, So what would sister peg do our weekly segment where we point you to an article, an organization, a podcast episode, something to give you more info about an issue or a topic we talked on today in today's episode, And I just wanted to direct you guys this week to Embrace Race dot Org. Embrace Race dot Org's mission is to raise a generation of children who are thoughtful, informed, and brave about race. And there is a whole section titled things to know if you love a multiracial child.
So I just saw a lot of this episode involved like this family's inability to accept this child, and I thought this would be an interesting resource for people who have multiracial children in their life. I think there's just some things we can't understand if you're not straddling the line of two cultures the way a lot of multiracial
children are. So there are articles, audio stories, firsthand experiences from people raising multiracial children, and there's a lot of info on this site and their resources help educate on using proper terminology, tackling ethno racial identity, and so much more so check out Embrace Race dot org and as usual, that will be saved on the day this episode comes out in highlight on our Instagram page that's messed Up Pod in a highlight called WWSPD two amazing.
Thank you so much, and next week we will be doing the episode Inconceivable season nine, episode fourteen. We will see you there Hulu, Peacock, go rate us, review us on the Apple podcasts or Whatnot, see us live where you see us, follow us somewhere.
I don't know. We love you all. Thank you so much. Bye bye.
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Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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