Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
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Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an sv podcast.
I'm Kara and I'm Liza.
Did you get the.
Sisters from Ariel like a Qualita or whatever? Oh?
I was thinking more SNNW the Kristen wigs and yeah, but here we talk SVU true crime celeb guests sometimes sometimes not. You know, we're working women trying our best. We're here, I mean, we're in the time machine. This is this is post Same Patrick's Day. So you know I'm not doing well in real life. If you'd like to, if you're listening live on March eighteenth, maybe DM me, maybe dm me see how I'm doing.
Yes, CM Lee's the center a virtual bottle of Gatorade today is.
My god, Oh my god, I feel bad for you. What well, we're recording on March eighteenth, and I'm gonna be post Saint Patrick's Day.
Oh boy, I forgot about that.
But the Luigi Trials tomorrow, so you know I'm going to that we can't.
There's no move got around all day.
You got to black out the rest of the day on the eighteenth so that you're prepped for the nineteenth. But today is my twin brother's birthday, Colin and David, my twin brothers.
Happy birthday boys.
Colin listens, but he is behind, so he'll probably get this in like three months. He'll be like half. He'll be like at his half birthday when he gets this. But you know, love my little twinsies. So that's a little happy birthday shout out to.
That old are they now? I feel like thirty eight, thirty seven something like that.
I forgot. Sorry, Oh they're my age. Yeah, my brothers are like your age. There's like, yeah, I always.
Assumes someone that's a neurologist is older than me, but I guess not anymore.
You're old enough to be an neurologist, you know, which is cool.
Yeah, that's actually so that's always the annoying thing where it's like the strict parents that kind of want specific careers out of these kids.
It's like, there's no way I could do that.
Like if I had Russian ass parents that were like science, science, I would be miserable failing. I don't know what I would do, Like, I just don't understand, like you need some sort of aptitude. I feel for it, some natural inclination. It's weird when parents force kids to do, Like I can't imagine having to be a doctor if I'm not good at science or math.
Yeah.
Well it's funny too because my brother is very good at math and science. But then he's also very funny and good at the other He's just good at everything pretty much.
But well that's why he got like surgeon.
Yeah he was a surgeon, then he would have chip missing in terms of humanity.
Yes, and but he like took improv at UCB and was like very funny, like went through many levels, Like I mean, there there's like an alternate universe where he went goes into like more of a field like what I'm in, you know, so that you know, like I feel like, well, he's got special but yeah, you know, I think he's enjoying a lot more money than I am, which is nice, you know, for him, for.
Him in this moment, but not overall.
I think the richest doctor and the richest person in comedy the comedy is richer.
He likes what he does, though, I think I think he likes he's you know, he's he likes for me, it's.
The best special it's the I mean, it's the best schedule. Seven days on, seven days off. Oh he helps youel No, he is smart, he's doing a good thing. I just I don't know. It's just too much work. I would never if I had a kid, I would never want them to work that hard.
Ever, I'd be like, chill out, what are you doing?
Yeah?
I would not want my kids struggle. I mean, that's my mom raised me. My mom always says when I'm dead, that's when you can like learn about life. Oh my god, she goes, gone, you'll know how hard life is. But like, why would I ever do.
That to you? Yeah?
I just had parent teacher conferences for Rosie. Oh was like she was like showing me Rosie's report cards. She was like, yeah, she's doing great, She's doing great. And I was like, come on, like give me something like I want. I was like digging for I was like and her behavior.
She listening.
She goes, yeah, I have no problems with her. And I was like, wow, this is weird. Like it lasted ten minutes. I was like, okay, you nothing or nothing because I oh, she was like I didn't.
I'm just like surprised.
I'm surprised that she doesn't give like a little bit of behavior problem in school because like she does get hyper, she does like talk about poop, like she keeps coming home telling me that that's inappropriate for school, like she does, she leaves all her poop talk for home. But she's been using the word inappropriate a lot. Oh, she fell out of a window yesterday at our house.
What I mean, it's low to the ground. I do know that which way it is the ground. She okay.
So Jared has been meal prepping, which is really great. I'm happy for him. I want him to be healthy. But he makes like this broccoli chicken thing and our house smells like fucking broccoli all the time, and it drive me crazy. So I opened a bunch of the windows in the house because it was a nice day. I was like, I gotta get some cross ventilation. I can't smell brocoli every day. And then the kids got home and they were like, whoa, the windows are open,
because like, the windows are never open. There are screens, but you know, so they just get up on the edge of the couch and they're just screaming out the window. They're just yelling things, not at anybody, just into the void. They're just Oscar's going, hello Helena. He doesn't know anybody named Helena. I don't know where any of this came from.
And he's just like yelling shit out the window. And then I look over at the exact moment that I see Rosie's body like just gets like almost get sucked out of the window, like she just fell into the screen. But it looked like she fell backwards into like a portal to another dimension. And you've never seen me run so fast, like I go, oh fuck, and I like run out the front door and I get to her so quick, and then I go.
I go, oh my god, wro'sy are you okay?
She goes you got here so fast, it's like you teleported.
I was like, yeah, I mean, it just takes one of your kids.
I mean she fell out into essentially like a soft garden of like little trees and bushes and stuff, so like it wasn't but she was very shocked and upset, obviously, as anybody would be.
And I was just like, yeah, you guys watching her little legs dangle must have been funny, though, I to laugh. I know that iar in panic, but then.
Right I was like, I guess these fucking screens are not really in there very tight, so we'll be keeping the windows closed from now on. But it was funny anyway. She was so excited to tell everybody at school today how she fell out of a window. She was like, I can't wait to tell my teacher, my friends, my after school.
Like she's excited, so, you know, she loves a little story. But got it.
I don't know if I don't know, if I'm like, yeah, I don't know that I'm whatever. I would never push my kids into any career, so let alone. Like, but my mom never really pushed my brother into being a doctor. I think she was like, you're good at that, and he was good at it, you know, he was good at the chemistry and the classes and stuff, but we were never like like, when I told my mom I was a theater major, she goes, could you major in
one more thing? And so I majored in creative writing equally pointless, I mean, like great for me, but like equally not money making, you know, so like but that's like as most as I can think of as my mom ever, like pressuring me to do well.
It's also fresh because I just I namesh Patel his Netflix specials coming out in April good Friend. But he's just been doing shows at New York Comedy Club and it's a moment. It's a big Indian audience, so obviously the topics come up, but they're oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but there were So he does a joke where he was doing a show in Texas and someone like passed out, fainted, stroke something had and thirty doctors stood up at a Patel show.
Thirty He's like, everyone was rushing too.
It's like edit in Mesh show, you don't say is there a doctor in the room. You're like, is there a cardiac pulmonologist in the room? And then you probably have to sift out between the four of them.
So, oh, actually, I have my flight to LA got diverted medical emergency. We stopped at Kansas City for like an hour. Someone had to be taken. They asked for a doctor, then they asked for a certain medication if anyone had and.
Then we had to ground the plane.
Oh my gosh, yeah, wait that reminds me they were class so I couldn't see who it was like, I couldn't see the commotion. My mom has gotten up on a plane before when they've asked for a doctor, and she is a pediatrician, and she's usually a bottle of wine deep on the plane. So I don't know, maybe we should just check before we ask for doctors. Well, a lot of doctors won't do it because of malpractice stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like, and some are drinking.
Some are like, this isn't my responsibility.
I had a drink. I'm not doing that.
Yeah yeah, well not my mom. She's like, let me in there. You need you need a Maxa sell in.
Well, so wait, this is still at the Nemesta show. So then there's two twenty two year olds. So right away I go, are you guys children or human? You know, look grown up? They were twenty two. I'm like, oh, that means you just graduated. They're Indian. I go, what's your major? And he goes psychology And out of the whole room only one woman gasps and joy and she was white and I just had the field day. I was like, this is so funny. I'm like the rest
of your people are living at you. It's so disappointed.
I'm like, you only got a gasp from this white Like I was crazy.
It was just so fun, so funny. His audience was just so much fun.
It was also ask for Sunday and they all have jobs, so like when people are out on a Sunday night, you know they're down for a good night.
Yeah, yeah, that's fun. Yeah, you know what I was gonna say. Though, I don't know if you remember talking about this on the episode Manic that we did. We talked about gabapentin or whatever, okay, like that was the drug.
That that was the drug in real life.
I think that, like whatever, they still prescribe that to people. I just heard Tricksy talk about gabapentin for like twenty minutes on her podcast that she took for a muscle relax or or like she took for a muscle issue. People were writing us so many people were writing into our Instagram, going I give that to my dog, like they give gabapentin for like everything, And I was like, wait, what, like maybe they've changed the makeup of it or something.
But like I was like, in our episode, it was like making people have really and some people actually wrote and said I had really bad like like suicidal ideation and like bad dreams and stuff like that when I was on it. So it's not totally like a reformed drug or anything. But they're still giving it out like wild, they're given anything. They don't give a fuck. Yeah, they don't give a fuck.
Yeah.
But all of a sudden, did you see RFK All of a sudden, like, actually you need to get vaxed? Yeah, actually you need to get vax And it's like, oh, you think having a bunch of fucking freaks and power, Like what the fuck?
The week before he was like, measles is actually great for you, Like it actually it's character building, Like it's actually perfect for you, and get it and you should want it. And then the next week was like, actually, go get your vaxes, Like what a nut? I can't I count with that, man, I don't think. I just think we should just like turn him off, not listen to him. Also, did you know that the new Pete Buttera Jedge, the new Transportation Secretary, is Shawn Duffy from
the Real World. He was on the Real World. He's married to Rachel from the Real World. Who was Pedro's best friend. I'm like, Pedro's his grave right now, go la, I forgot what Arley like early nineties, yes, early the early seasons.
And they have nine kids, and he's the new Pete budda jite.
How do you do that job with nine kids? You shouldn't be able to work when you have that many kids. How are you in the government? Go take care of your kids?
And he's the one like that's all over the place being like, what's this congestion pricing in New York City? And it's like, I really don't think you know anything about New York City. I think you should let New York City do whatever they want.
You know, what we did need is some high power of rails and you shut that down, So go fuck yourself, whatever, whatever, whatever.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm just disassociating as much as possible.
Yeah, look, we have to find who is this a roach? I light it.
We have to find joy wherever we can, and I will in two short weeks be taking my children to Lego Lands. And I already bring that up. I told you guys, you practice up. Actually, I would say three weeks in a row. No one has sent me Lego Land tips I need them. No, it's fine. I think it's fine. I don't think I need any tips. But and then I know, I'm like, what else is?
What else is? What else am I looking forward to?
I have a lot of birthday parties coming up, a lot of kids' birthday parties, a lot of kid birthday parties.
I do not know what to do.
I think I'm just looking forward to being on the road and going about my life, living my dream well before it's taken away.
And then I do want to do. I have a volunteer things.
I do want to get more involved in a more real, consistent way in my community. And I always say that and then I don't do it. But that is you know, the Kevin Bacon Foundation woman Stacey that she told me it's the antidote to hopelessness.
Yeah, And I'm always buying supplies, I'm always sending stuff.
I'm about to do some ridafon for someone's kid, like I'm always, you know, like, but that's not what I want. I want to be involved with humans that something and people sent recommendations and I brought this up in the past, but I think that's what I need to look forward to it because I'm disassociating but being so self centered in the process, like it's all about just me. My show is my friend, my show like the TV shows I like to watch, Like I need to open up.
No, it does.
I mean the twenty sixteen election is what got me to be a casa, you know, like that's what led me to do that. And then with this election, I am like, I'm volunteering a lot for this place that a bunch of moms started in a life, for the people who lost everything in the fires. It's like a little store that we're running for people that they can just come and take anything they want. And so I've been volunteering there and then I'm even trying to do
like trying to get do more stuff. So yeah, I think that's like the best way, like just try to support and if you're the kind of verson's like I literally don't have a minute in my day, yes, sending money or or spreading awareness.
Like everybody has to.
Volunteer within the confines of their capabilities, you know, like if you don't have time to go work at a soup kitchen.
Five days a week, that's okay, you know, just.
Do what you can, because it has been like I don't know, at least post La and the fires, it feels like everybody really got came together to help people, and that gives me faith in humanity.
Like even though well Esther's co host, I think I mentioned her last episode on my La Trip Kalila, their podcast.
Trush Tuesday lost her home. Oh she did you told me that? Yeah?
Well I didn't. I know, I only know her casually, mostly through the internet. So but we we like met in a different apartment, like in a place where Esther had a confusing time getting in the gate, and I'm like, they're best friends. What's going on? And it's because the house burned down? Oh wow, it lost everything. Damn damn.
Listen, let's get started. Let's get started. We've got a classic f today, so let's get going.
All right, we are getting into a greatly named episode I would say top ten of SV history Hooked Hooked. So there's I would say, five metaphors, five layers. Honestly, could be like a college essay prompt, like explain all the different ways Hooked is involved in this episode.
Yes, I think a great Ideeah.
So if there's out there there should be a college course on his view. I mean, there's a college course on Taylor Swift's lyrics. I feel that there could be a college course on his view and off frankly, we could teach it. So I think we're available if any universities online.
I truly, I mean, this is annoying. But this person annoyed me. But he always annoys me. I'll say his name, we'll bleep it. Please bleep it. Yeah, always fucking trying to poke a hole in something. Negmy put me on my place. He's always got something to fucking say. And I basically was talking about my friend's roommate who almost killed me right by leaving the stove on. Do you remember, like snapping on the couch, he left the house of stoves on. So I'm talking and I'm like, oh my god,
you know his roommate tried to murder me. I've been like on edge. I keep like thinking he's gonna arrive in the house, like even though he doesn't live there, and then minutes go by, minutes go by, and then this person goes, I mean, after I tell the story, goes. You know, you said murdered. He didn't try to murder you. You kind of didn't really sell this story. I go, what are you talking about? Are you playing semantic games right now? Will you alluded to something else? I go, fine,
I didn't realize we were in court. It would be in voluntary manslaughter. I don't give a shit. I would be dead.
What are you doing? And when we're comedians, we all talk in hyperbole. That is so fucking wise, so annoying, so annoying.
And it was like at dinnerer And then also it was like a few now everyone will know, but no, no one cares about me that much. But like, and then this pissed me off. But it was three women and one man going out to dinner and he was gonna sit in the booth. And I decide, I go, are you out of your fucking mind? He goes, what, I go, this is why you can. I'm like, you
would fucking take the booth when there's three girls? I go, And he'd had no idea about that, And I'm like, that's probably why your life sucks.
I don't know what to tell you.
For you to think that you should have a booth over one of the girls is insane to me.
Like, you mean the inside of the booth. Now we're all sitting together.
Yeah, but you know sometimes it's like a booth in two chairs.
Oh, not a bad booth. I apologize.
He was getting he was taking the comfy seat, Okay, No, I stopped him.
He goes, I would take it. I go, no, you're not. You're sitting on this fucking chair. Are you out of your mind?
And that's all based on what you're talking about.
That's I guess I could tell other people that I was insane at the dinner too, now that I'm thinking about it.
Liza wouldn't was telling me where to sit and was accusing people of murder. That's his version of the story.
No, but then I talked about my monoxide PTSD and how it was like three months. Yeahle not listening and helping, and he started taking the fire fire's side.
Yeah.
He was like, well, yeah, like they didn't find it. That's not I go, but that's their fucking job. I go, the raidar said monoxide. They left a citizen in a monoxide house without finding the source. I go, why are you defending these firefighters? I go, this is bonkers. You're you're a maniac. I go, you're truly a maniac, and I don't want to hang out with you anymore. Like
I can't. I can't. I can't just be on trial at all times, like I'm so sorry I didn't say he involuntarily manslaughtered me, Like, but in my head, I'm like, is that even the true thing? But I act like I know, I act like I like when I talk about your regie, I truly am like I am his lawyer, and that's the way I like.
I truly am that in my head.
And I can't, like, God forbid, the day I get into a fight with a real lawyer out in the world, I'm going to lose.
Okay, it's hooked. It's Hooked.
Season six episodes air date February fifteenth, two thousand and five. So a post V Day situation. So we're stargazing. It's a lesson for some telescope boys, and of course they're young boys. They're going to start spying on topless women that are right out of the showers.
I think the shower and my daughter is a cub scout right now, the girls are in so.
So the teacher obviously goes over and is like, hey, quits spying, and but then one of the boys sees something bad.
What is it?
It's a dead woman on a roof, So Benson and Stabler with a uniformed cop giving them the low down on what the roof boy scouts saw. Sailor makes a joke about merit badges inappropriate. So there's a bag in the alley next to the building and we find an ID and it says Alison Downey. The address is in Yonkers and not a bench. This is a millennium. This is a very high end episode of shopping and I
love it. This episode's for the girls. So the so Melinda is on the scene and she goes, I mean, I bet that's a good address in Yonkers because this stress is eight hundred dollars and maybe she knows about the dress from her sister who works at Sacks.
So yes, that's that's.
Which was one of our That was one of our quiz show questions that I think was one of the hardest ones ever.
Yeah, because I already don't even remember what episode we learn that in.
It's like fucked up. I would put, Yeah, her sister's a buyer for Sacks. It's also like, I know if I'm looking if I'm like, oh wow, this is a Proda dress. This is a Mumer dress. This is a dull chain of bonness. Man'm like, I know it's expensive, but I don't ever really know how much, you know. I'm like, I don't know, what is this twelve hundred two grand, Like I don't know.
Yeah, So, Melinda says cracked skull was something blunt and heavy, no weapon recovered, no fluids, but panties are pulled down and there is trauma to the vaginal area. And again, this is not a sentence I would love you. It makes me question everything I say.
True.
I always think about the fact that if my computer gets caught, like discovered or something, or I don't know, like how much how many bad keywords I have written in my Google docs and on my computer, Like if you just were to like search the word rape on my computer, it would come up like dozens, if not hundreds of times.
And it's like, I don't know, and they would probably arrest you sooner than they would arrest a real rapist.
So yeah, they'd be like she had I mean, like literally, they tell the press that she had information of interest on her laptop or something like that, and then it's like, oh wait, but nobody put together. She has a podcast about this, and by then my reputation's ruined. You know, I thought about it. I thought it through.
So she has been dead for twenty to twenty four hours, which means that between eight and midnight the night before this could have occurred. And both roof doors are locked from the inside, so maybe the purpose like lives in the building. Munchin Fin are going to do a canvas and then Benson and Stable are going to go to Yonkers to do the no notification to the parents.
The mom.
We cut to the mom holding the driver's license, going, that's Allison, that's my daughter. She's crying. She saw her daughter yesterday morning. She's been living with her like since she graduated college.
Normal.
I mean, they were ahead of their times with that, like we're all moving back. But the mom says she goes to the city to hang with her friends and stays overnight. That's I just relate to that. And then she has a boyfriend who lives in Boston. But then the door rattles and who walks in. It's fucking Allison. I mean, can you believe the trauma to the joy? I like can't even imagine that, like kind of wave of emotions.
It's kind of like what every mom like wishes what happen when when this, you know, like it's oh my god, it's so yeah yeah.
But to me, I'm like, you guys are detectives for you to not see that the IDs didn't match or you would at least like match the DNA from the idea, like I can't. I am curious at what the fuck because they do look different to me, like the photo, they do look different. So it's weird. But I guess you don't question that's not your instinct. But I would feel for some of the best investigators in Manhattan, they would take a double shit.
Show a crime sceam photo, show her a photo of the body, you know, of the body too much.
But you know, great television, great television, And this is one of like eight.
This episode's amazing. I can't believe we are doing it.
This is up there with when they go into ID and they go, it's not her, it's not her, it's not her, you know, like yeah.
So she hugs her daughter, oh my, and she goes, they said you were dead. They said you were dead. The daughter's like whoa. She has an amazing blonde blowout, and we get to the credits. So now Allison's talking to the cops and like where they found the ID and it was in the murder victims per s babe, and she's like, oh, I lost mine and I got a new one, so I guess. And then Benson picks up a framed photo and there's a girl who it's it's at the actual dead body. Oh so now you
can figure it out, Benson. So Alison goes, that's my cousin, Lisa. She lives in Queens. Allison starts crying and trying to lie, but she then admits she gave her ID to Lisa, who just turned fifteen. That's so young. But she was going out with a college guy and she wanted to go to clubs in concerts with him. But Alison's like, she didn't do drugs. She was like kind of a door, which I didn't. I didn't think it would be a bad idea. She never got in trouble. She doesn't know
the college guy's name. She's crying hardcore and you know she did kind of like help her cousin be killed.
Maybe, So she feels bad.
And she is dead, and thank god, she's reacting how you would react if your cousin is dead, because the rest of the people we meet here snakes. Okay, So we're in Melinda's house. We see the dead girl on a slab and yeah, the girl has a Sarah bro cerebral. The girl has a god I want fruity pebbles. Okay, a cerebral hemorrhage from blunt force trauma. I feel like I kept trying to say cereal instead of cerebral.
Okay, blunt force trauma.
She thinks it like it was a metallic and rounded end weapon, but she can't really figure it out. She also has a bruise on her face that's like four to six weeks old, and it's sad.
She's only fifteen. And Stabler's pissed.
He's like, what kind of parents let their daughter go out clubbing on a school night? And Melinda goes, well, you can get ask the dad, go bully him. You know he's here. The dad identifies the body. He's crying. He's so sad. He can't believe it. She told him she was just going out for pizza with some friends. I mean, are you gonna AirTag your kids. What do you think you're going to do? Oh no, just follow like share location.
By the time they're doing that kind of thing.
I feel like they're going to have one of these little watches that a lot of the kids have, which I think are like so that you can text and call but no other apps, and I think you can.
I think that has GPS. Cool. I think I'll have to.
So he saw her Monday morning, the dad, but he's a truck driver, so you know, before he left on his long haul, he said bye, and then she called him to do the pizza check in that afternoon before she was killed. She and she left the day in her school uniform. Stabler's a dick though, and is like you sure about that. Sabler calms down a bit after the dad is visically just you know, upset his daughter's and they explained that she was wearing an eight hundred dollars dress.
He confuses him.
He doesn't know about an older guy or dating sugar. Dad like he doesn't know any how she would get the dress or the job, or who she was. Hey, you know the her mother died nine months ago, so double sad. So they leave the dad to sob which I think is nice. And then we're at the Catholic school. The lady in charge there says that she went to all her classes on Monday, so she know she doesn't
get in trouble. She also says that Lisa would be the last kid she would think something like this would happen to because after her mom died, she became like the head of the household and she had to like keep the house in checks since her.
Dad's always on the road.
The mom, you know, is dead, and so she cooked clean, did schoolwork just but was alone a lot. And then when the kid and so the principal explains, when the kids don't get the attention and affection they need, they look for it elsewhere. And the only time she had to call her in was over the sex bracelets. But she's like, I feel like that was just peer pressure
and say blurt sex bracelets. You know, he can't believe it, the principle, even though I think there was a season three episode about the sex bracelets, you know what I mean?
Yeah, there was a blow job party one too. I'm going to talk a little bit later.
Ye, the principal takes out a bunch you know, sex bracelets from the drawer. Basically, the girls wear them to indicate which sex sex are willing to perform. So the colors are like hugging, there's a kissing, a lap dance that's kind of fun and creative, a oral sex, and then you know, all the way all the girls were wearing it. But she can't, you know, she doesn't know like who did it for, you know, attention and who did it because they were acting on the sexual stuff.
So they go to talk to her best friend Angela and Ganlly, and of course it is Hayden Pantare back for her second Sview episode. She was a little kid in an episode called Abuse from It's a Wild Jump. It's only four seasons. Abuse was season two and this is season six right now.
That's four seasons.
I feel like they gave little Michael what's his name, Michael O'Keeffe.
I'm just like, yeah, I'm just seeing the ohum kids, Like I know, kids grow up quick.
But she was like a tiny little Olivia comes spend the day with me, and.
Then four seasons later she's like a high school babe, you know, like, I don't know, make wearing a sex bracelet.
It's like it's just was a jump for me.
Yeah, I get what you mean. But and then to grow up fast. These kids grow up fast. Obviously you're gonna get Hayden pan a teer back as much as you can. Yeah, and she's not our guest.
If you were wondering, We're going to talk to Hayden Panitar later today.
It's not.
Panater also reminds me of just like some like a panchetta, like it kind of makes you want to eat it like a deli meat like oh, or like panatone.
Yeah, but what is that?
Panatone is like an Italian Christmas cake? Oh yeah, no I don't but I've never had that. And I don't like panapata either.
Yeah.
No, I'm thinking like pshoot, Like it makes me feel like I just I want to meet so bad.
Right now pan tear. Yeah.
For me, she's remembered that Titans that was That's like the big thing for me.
I didn't even watch Heroes, but that was so big and she was the cheerleader. It was like save the cheerleaders, save the world, Like I think NBC at that point, because Heroes was NBC, Like I think they were, Like she's in our pipeline.
You know, we love her. Yeah, and then was Nashville NBC too. I wonder if she was a company now wes. I hope she has a Lindsay Lohan style comeback.
Just no, Nashville was ABC. She made a jump. Oh wow, and now we have Hayden.
She's in a ponytail Catholic schoolgirl caller and she says they wore the berry slits to school and it's a walk and talk. She and Angela says. She actually named them sex bracelets. So she's cool. But none of them have boyfriends, and they love studying. They don't have time for boyfriends because they're studying. They all want to go to college. But she really doesn't seem upset about her best friend dying in the at all. She's like, I
got to get to Spanish class. Like truly, you'd think the school would make an announcement of like if anyone needs to go to the school therapist or take a break like our fellow classmate, your best friend has been found brutally murdered on a roof. But yeah, I guess you got to get to Spanish class, so skip on a over there. But once she goes to class. Stabler goes, yeah, I'm actually stuck on this. Well, teenage girls are too busy for boyfriends. I don't get I'm not into that.
I don't buy it. Benson gets a call from Taru. Morales has something and they jog up the stairs. Really cute. Lisa's BlackBerry is what's been found by the dumpster near where the body was, And first it was jumped on and ruined on purpose. Water got inside of it. But of course it's Morales. He got some data out of the SIM card and she went to one website over and over and over again, and it's hot personals dot net, a teen singles website. You would think that the government
would shut that down. Does that exist and has it ever existed? Like that doesn't seem like a thing that's ever existed, a teen singles web.
I mean, like we've had friends or we've had MySpace.
You can hook up on these sites, but like they're disguised as friend sites. They're not like, Hi, I'm fifteen, I'm single. Like what you'd think that that would be shut down for sure.
For sure.
But this reminds me of something actually very wholesome from the Internet. But Coleman Domingo. I was watching an interview and he met his partner of now nineteen years from a Craigslist miss connections.
I have a friend who's married from a Craigslist misconnection.
I think it's like the coolest thing, and it's such a period of time, Like I wonder if it's still, like I just am obsessed. He was on it for something else. He's like, I guess I'll check, and then he realized it was him and like, oh my god, I don't know.
I love it. I think they kind of exist on Instagram.
I've seen them before, like I think, but they just don't go like it's just not the same, you know, like you used to be able to just go to your city and like scan and it would be like lady in the camel coat, Like that's how my friend.
Got met her husband.
Oh yeah, Like they were on the same flight and he was like, you were in like seat whatever, this camel coat married child children.
Wow. Yeah, all right.
So basically we're on you know, Lisa's page. Her likes her tattoos and six packs, her dislikes her piercings and ugly guys.
Her handle is Queen's teen and yeah.
So basically they go talk to someone who's a neighbor of Lisa, and the torp's like, Lisa, who and it's like, I don't know, maybe the woman that's been murdered, the girl the class like shut the fuck up, I'm sick of everyone, arrests everyone. And so they had a photo of Lisa to him and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he you know, he hooked up with her for a while, but that was months ago.
Friends with Benefits.
Munch asks why the benefits stopped, and then it cuts to Stabler talking to another teen, so you know what we're doing, just like a relay race of teens and detectives, and so he's like, well, how long you know were you and Lisa dating? And he goes, only ugly people date, and then he goes, I gotta fly and Stabler grabs him like, bitch, what the fuck?
Who is she hooking up with?
And then it cuts to Benson, who's talking to a girl who answers the question practically every cute guy at the school. The girl was on a mission and Benson goes, you weren't, and she goes, well, I'm into girls, and actually so was Lisa for a while, okay, season six, and then she started doing older guys she met on the internet. And Benson's like, wait, she wasn't scared to meet like men from the internet that she didn't know. And the girl goes, why would she be love that
love that? We would teach that on our syllabus for sure if we were to mess me plus that, what is there to be scared of? They have got a profile picture and they say everything about themselves.
What are checking out?
Yeah? But yeah, she likes old rich men, so that's what's up. And then she goes, but Angela would probably know about that. So now we find Angela. She's at Java Jake's coffee. There's cute groovy flowers stuck around the walls and windows. She's typing up a storm on a laptop and then she looks shocked to see the detectives, closes the laptop.
Benson kneels down and goes, hey, you.
Forgot to mention Lisa was hooking up with of queens Hayden Panetera says she wasn't doing that anymore, That's why she didn't want to mention it, like that was her olden days.
Sailor.
Then slutshames her outfit and then they're like, you lied to us. She goes, I'm sorry. I just didn't want you to think that she was a slut and tell her dad and then was like, she's gonna get in trouble. She's at the More Girl. So then they grill her to the old man online. About the old man online, they want information. She goes, he was in college and rich, but he started getting jealous because she was hooking up with everybody that he even hit her once and gave
her a black eye. Lisa never said that, but I knew what was up. His name's Andy Wall. So we're in cement room bars with this guy. He is an ugly guy, which is a Lisa dislike. So I am confused by what's going on here. No offense to the actor. It was just like a funny thing. I just said okay, And this boyfriend goes, I don't know about the fake ID.
I you know it's Alison. So they go out. They go Lisa.
Lisa goes, I don't know any Lisa, and then he's like, oh, you mean Alison. Then he's also shocked that she's fifteen. He is shocked that she is dead, and he is shocked that her name is not Alison so Bingo three across. That's not what I wanted to say, jackpot, jackpot. He says he would never hurt her, but also they split up and he hasn't talked to her in months, but they have the phone records and they talked all the
fucking time. And he goes, well, we're just friends. Friends talk to each other, and it's like, you just lie. I guess they might not have seen each other. They just talk on the phone, and that's his little semantics play. So he loved her but dumped her because she wanted to keep screwing other guys. Can I also say one thing the cousin told us. The cousin told us that she just turned fifteen, and everyone we're talking about is like, oh,
we were fucking, but we haven't fucked in months. So she was fourteen when she was mostly going around fucking all these people, and all.
These people are like, I thought she was twenty one. I'm like, she's fourteen. She's like two years into puberty. Like it's so fucking crazy. It is crazy, and I didn't even realize that. But it's also like I've performed at colleges four. Once you meet these kids and perform for them, you know that these people know their children. Yeah, I'm sorry, Like when you see a teen, you know
it's a teen. And I'm sick of people being like I just had no idea, Like you did have an idea people, It's like, yeah, it's not yeah, talk to them for three seconds.
Yeah, and it's like, we also know that that's what you like, Like there's porn categories you like, like like you can't have porn categories of a thing and then deny the thing that you're actually all into, like it's it's weird. Okay, So he loved her but dumped her because she wanted to keep screwing other guys. I did say that, So I said that again. And he also does have an alibi. He was in a study group till three am, and all five study buddies have vouched
for him, So fuck, what are we gonna do? Benson and Stable are chatting about the case. Craigan comes by and it's basically like, now, what what what Melinda called?
Drum roll? I mean a sad drum roll.
Never don't drum roll, Lisa has HIV, so that's had she's dead.
So the show.
Is obsessed with HIV and first ten seasons they really are obsessed, Like we have done so many episodes about it, Like I honestly forgot that this episode had an HIV component and was like, oh my god. Like again, like it's obviously it's great awareness at the time, very important, but it's like every season there's like two HIV episodes on this show. It's it is kind of it is kind of wild. Yeah, but yeah, you are totally right, and so now it's less in time. I always love this.
It's a walk and talk as Melinda is filling Benson and Stabler on the statistics of teen TEENHIV so a third of teens have an STI and then they go, this bitch got around. So basically every kid in Queen's is at risk, to be honest, and every positive HIV infection is to be reported, but names are kept anonymous, so like we can't give the names of everybody, but like we do know that she knew she was positive.
They found traces of anti retrovirals in her blood, so a doctor was giving her medication and Stabler is looking at the list Melinda gave him of like all of the people that Lisa had sex with, all her partners that we've compiled from the website. Her phone lists the interviews they've conducted, and Stabler recognizes a name. Oh my god father mode is activated. He shows up to talk to Kathleen asap. She's like, what, Dad, And she's like,
are you guys getting a divorce? And he goes, no, no, no, I just I need to make sure you didn't have sex with this guy. He has HIV. So I'm it's not as blunt as this. I apologize, guys. He doesn't say he doesn't. He doesn't say any of that. He doesn't break any hippo rules, don't worry, no, no, no, which he but he's done before. You know, he does not care when it comes to his children. Okay, so
she realized, you know, the dad's sailor seems serious. So she realizes the seriousness of the moment and answers truthfully and she goes, he actually dumped me for not being more sexual with him. I wasn't ready. So he hugs her. He's fucking, you know, thrilled. He pays extra for Catholic school. Yeah, so he kisses her forehead, which I don't know. It sickens me. So they're back at least is an apartment to talk to the dad and I don't know, does he have to know? They have to let him know.
I know they don't have to. They tell him, listen, your daughter also had HIV. This guy's in a fantastic actor. He's so sad and they actually have work to do. So Benson goes through the girl's closet finds more expensive outfits. So they're like, hey, did she have a job. What is going on? He goes no, the lounges was only twenty five dollars a week. So he's like, I guess I don't know anything about my daughter. She's rich and
has HIV. I had no idea. So they find a bag like a shopping bag from her boutique where most of her clothes are from, so and in the bag are all her pills, and then the pills are prescribed from a doctor named doctor Derek Tanner. Everything is a Sally Seashell shore thing for me right now. I'm like, everything is tongue twister in my mind. And in the back of clothes were her pills and in the pills.
There was a like.
So we got to go talk to doctor Derek Tanner. The doctor obviously can't be like talking about people's medical records and texts and like, what's going on? And he goes, I did everything I legally could for her. I try to do the right thing, but I can't do anything and like tell you any information unless you get a release from Lisa's father, and then I could tell you anything that you need to know. So Benson and Stabler leave and are like, okay, so how did she get
all this money? So like, and I love how they jumped from the HIV back to the money so quickly. So I'm still like, wait, can we get the release? What's going on here? But so they go to the store and a worker rushes to them because she's like, what are you guys doing here? You seem very poor, very civil servant. So the worker like looks up the dress though and Lisa that Lisa had on and they sold one on Monday with cash, so but she wasn't working.
But they do have surveillance, so now we're watching the tape, and this worker's very helpful, honestly, more helpful than her best friend. There's a man there, Brian, one of the managers. Brian and Lisa leave to the back together. Fast forward. She leaves wearing the dress after being gone for over ten minutes, and Brian is there again today. So they go to meet him back there and we hear moans
of passion and pleasure. They follow the moans he's getting his dick sucked in a stock room by who Hayden?
Panitare? Can you believe it? So they Angela Agonelli, you know, shocking.
So they go to woodroom blinds and she's like, ugh, I don't even know what I did wrong, And Benson's like, you're selling yourself for clothing, and she goes, it's not sex, it's oral the Bill Clinton effect, and so so she goes, whatever, it's what I did when I just hooked up, but now I get something for it, so whatever. And this is actually the one time because the costume and the department and everything at Sview is so incredible and professional.
They have a face black Louis. It'son marricam bag, like the logos are. It's clearly fake, but they're pretending it's real in the show, going, oh you have this louisv's on bag, but it's a it's a it's like even the symbols aren't the Louis It's on symbols or the letters, Like I don't understand what's happening, because like I wonder if they couldn't get clearance, and they were like and who will notice? Sure, but why not get like the product triangle or the like fake that's less noticeable.
Like it's such a noticeable because it's everywhere and the lv's are gone.
It just was such a confusing thing because the show is so grounded, not reality and like how things move, but you know they are.
It's a realistic show. They use real Yeah.
Yeah, because when we talk to I remember why Clef, I asked about his clothes and they were all really really expensive because his character was like the leads, so I know that they get expensive shit.
Yeah, so what the fuck? Confusing?
But Benson clock say, she goes, that's Louis bit'son bag, that's adult ching ub on the top, and those are prod Is shoes. So one guy spent that much on you. So she gets embarrassed and it's like whatever, it's not like I do it all the time. And Stablor goes, do you want to wind up? Like Lisa? She doesn't. So they were hooking at the mall, but then she
started using the hotels, so that's the thing. So at first they were just fucking around the stock rooms, but then Lisa got hooked and started going to the hotels. The hotel is the Barrington, so she, you know, starts spilling tea, tearing up. She's like, oh, we did it for clothes. But then Lisa was so into it. And then one time a creep picks us up at the mall and he was like, you can make some real money if you come to the hotel. So they go
to the hotel to talk to the man. It is Jerome, the front desk employee, and Stabler's undercover as like a jerk type of businessman, real sol easy in for a good time, looking for a massage.
So that was.
Takes us so many fucking directions, so many, I mean, we've already had like six Red Herring suspects, like and now Morning's undercover.
Like it's so nuts, Like I had.
To go back and like rewatch parts of it because I was like, wait, where who was that?
Like it's this one's really.
Wild it is, and like like there was a black Eye, and we have one theory of the black Eye. There's gonna be more theory. Like there is just like a never ending kind of a cool episode. So basically, Jerome's a bad guy. He's a pimpage. He works at this hotel and he sends up a young blonde named Brandy upstairs. They do a money exchange and he takes out his badge and well, first he.
You know, Sailor's like, why do you do this?
And her back's turned to him, and she goes, oh, you're one of those and he goes, no, I'm one of these badge out So it's kind of like cinematic.
I like it.
And she's three hundred for the hour and two thousand for the night, yeah, which I was like, damn in one direction, just like that's this is two thousand and five five dollars.
That's a that's a fucking lot, you know. Yeah.
But so the exchange, Yeah, so then she's pissed obviously, and we're all in cement room bars where with Jerome and they're like, we hate you because this motherfucker takes seventy percent from the girls seven. But that's so much you would think it would be a different split. So I don't like it. You're a bad pimp.
I hate you.
And he's like, I do know they were underage, and they're trying to get info from him, and he's being like cage and then they're like, okay, we're gonna tell your hotel that you're like a suspect for murder, and he slips and goes, wait, Allison's been murdered. So at first he was denying knowing who you know Lisa is or anyone, and then now he's like, Allison's been murdered, so he knows about the youth. So everyone just keeps letting it slip that they do know her. Everyone's like,
I don't know, and then they're like wait her. So that just keeps on happening. So then he finally is like, oh, I have to give them information or you know, the hotel's going to know him a murderer but like or suspect it. Either way, the hotel should fire him, like he is pimping ye scenes yeah, yeah, they're well they're threatening him with that, but it's like, honey, that's a lot. They're gonna tell them myself like you cannot work at the hotel.
No, thanks saving your job right now? Now, do you want to not go to jail. Let's get some info?
Yeah, so they go uh so then he's like there's a guy who's extra fond of her. And they're like okay, and they're like, oh yeah, that's all he wants to see. And it's the fucking doctor. It's the HIV doctor, doctor Tanner. He's ruining all these kids' lives. So then Lisa's dad, so they go to the doctor's office. Lisa's dad is beating the shit out of the doctor. The doctor's like, I want to press charges. Benson's like shut up, like
what are you talking about. So then Stabler bullies the dad like they're in a little He's like, let me do my job. It's my job. And the dad's pacing around like my wife's gone, Lisa's gone. Who gives a ship, My life doesn't matter. Sablor's wagging his finger, but you know, he gets it. And then Stabler hangs his head low and leans on a medical exam chair and breathes deep,
and then he goes, I've seen a lot. Honestly, I think this is the nicest I've ever seen Stabler to an adult, Like I think for kids maybe, but this was you know, he really is, like I mean, he relates father. I've seen a lot of good people who have lost everything that they thought they had nothing left to live for. But you got to keep going. Think about Lisa and your wife, what they want to see you sitting in prison. You can get through this. And
he promises to deal with doctor Tanner. Stabler's like, I got this, don't you worry. So they have the doctor in cement room bars and like Stabler enters with the fierceness and energy of ellipsying for your life.
Like he's He's like, this is my third time on the bottom. If I do not fucking get this, I am out of here and I need this.
He's sashe's into that room, and he grabs the guy by his hair, pulls him up up from out of the chair and keeps repeating, how did it feel?
And he does the classic like she came on to me. I didn't know she was fifteen. Again, you're a doctor, so that's even crazier.
And this must be a breakage of some sort of oath, you know, one of the oaths that you take like it's you're breaking it. Yeah, and he was actual. So this is how this all started. He was in town for a doctor's convention. She approached him in the hotel lobby, said she was twenty one. Again, he had no idea full doctor. He also then was like the sex was acredible. I was addicted, maybe another word for addicted, hooked hook. He denies killing her, and he's like, I don't care
about the HIV, I don't care about anything. And then he's like, I quit my job in Providence just to move closer to her. I gave up everything. I gave her everything she wanted. I loved her. Sailors like full disgust, face like full disgust, and.
Then looks him.
I mean, it's like giving the dad in bayn what's the bombshell? Bombshell, It's giving the dad in bombshell. But at least that was a grown fucking woman. Yes, she was fucking her, using you, but she was a grown woman. Yeah, oh my god.
Uh yeah, So I mean he's Stabler leaves in silence, cuts to him bench pressing. He's Benson walks in from behind the lockers.
Stabler sits up you know, out of breath.
His arms look fucking hot, and he's like, times have changed. And Benson goes, well, maybe you've changed, and he goes, maybe that's true. And so then he goes and gets some water. He leans on the water cooler, you know, iced tea rule of acting lean, baby lean. So then Benson says, you have great kids, and he goes, well, Lisa's father thought the same, and they had to. But they have to let the doctor go for murder because
his work. Alibi did check out, he was at the hospital, but like, can't they just get him on stats of shory rape? What's what? What's going on? He admitted to dating and moving to be with a fifteen year old? Arrest him? How was he back at work just because he didn't do the murder? Yeah, that I don't get Yeah, I don't get that. Sorry, we've become too inside, Like I'm just noticing too many little moments.
Maybe they like and like.
You said before, back at work, it's like, no, does his office not know that he's fucking a fifteen?
I mean like no, I mean the thing is is like, I guess you do you? I guess we did? A real kid?
He didn't know. Do you have the defense that you didn't know? I mean, this comes in later, This comes in later in the true crime a little bit. But like if you're just a guy and you have sex with a fifteen year old and you're like, she told me she was twenty one, But that's the patriarchy because they know, but you can know that in core, like.
I get it. I'm trying to think legally, is there like is there no?
Because like she showed me an ID and she showed me a fake ID or whatever.
Because remember the case with the NBA player, the Colorado one with the double catfish, Yeah, it was she he thought she was of age, but he she wasn't. And when then the pictures of her went out online, he was charged like he was taken in or investigated at least.
For child porn. Didn't matter.
Okay, I feel like it doesn't matter because if it's like you thought she was twenty but then you uh, yeah, it doesn't.
I don't think it matters.
Yeah yeah, because I also don't know how you prove it. Yeah, yeah, prove that you didn't know?
You know?
Yeah, I wonder, But Okay, this guy's even crazier Cara because then Benson drops it, like you don't know. Benson drops the bomb he's married with a kid back in Rhode Island, like you know, he had a full family. He ditched the family. And then Tanner has become broke out there. He ran out of all his money and now he's begging his wife to take him back. So I hope she doesn't take him back. He's like, I've made a huge mistake. He spent all her all his
money on Lisa. Stablor goes, maybe Lisa actually didn't want him to go, like, let's go talk to the doctor again, like maybe something's going on.
You know.
Stabler has his thinking face on, you know, we'll see what he's up to. So then but then when they get to the apartment to just you know, talk to this doctor about whatever was in Stabler's brain, the doctor's murdered. No pulse, blood poured out fully out of there. Stabler of course goes, Lisa's father did it?
Who else? So they have the dad in cement room.
Bars he's denying the murder, but his fingerprints are on the doorknob, and he goes, no, I know I went there to do something bad.
He goes I went upstairs.
Uh, he goes, I just I opened the door, but he was already dead, like I wanted to know what was up. And then Stabler sits down AND's like, listen, I know you've been through a lot, and if I'd found out that she was with an older man in a hotel, I would have shot the bastard too. We realized the dad has no idea what's going on, so that the dad goes, what are you talking about? And then starts slowly standing up and is now leering over Stabler, who remains sitting and goes, are you saying my little
girl was a whore? And his golden cross is dangling off his neck, and he says Lisa was a good girl, and then breathes deep and says he murdered her, didn't he? And he goes, I didn't shoot him, but I sure as hell wish I did. And Stabler truly doesn't move at all. He just looks ahead. He doesn't know what to do. The closing shot of this scene is like ten seconds on Stabler's face mildly moving in different directions, and so this scenem's bad. So it's like again, we're
slipping more information. So the dad just went to talk to the HIV doctor to be like who infected her?
Like who fucked her?
And then the stabler breaks it down and is like, oh no, she was fucking that old man in a hotel for money.
Yeah, the bad news doesn't end.
You'd think finding out your child's dead would be the worst news you got of the week, but it just deeps going.
So no, I think the death.
The death is worse, of course, but okay, so meeting in the we're in the meddle. We're in the meddle, meet me in the meetle. Okay, we're in a meeting in the middle precinct. And they searched the dad. They can't find any weapons, there's like no proof he did it, but and there are prints from one other unidentified person in the apartment. So Craigan's like, I still think the dad is the best bet and stands no, no, no, no, like he did not know. He truly was shocked in cement
room bars. He doesn't think that dad's the guy. Munchin Finn come in. They found a scarf from Saint Tabitha's high school.
Wait if the dad doesn't, I'm sorry, I'm like even backing up here, if the dad doesn't know that his daughter was fucking the doctor, why was he beating up the doctor two scenes ago?
Oh, he wants to know who gave her aids.
Gave h Okay, he wants scoop like he's like, help tell me.
Okay, yeah, I got it, got it. I was very confused.
Okay, it's very confusing, and so it must be Lisa's. But Benson goes, no, no, no, I found one of the scarfs already in Lisa's classet. She might have two scarfs, or it could be someone else's scarf. I also can't imagine any police officer being this good at their job that they would like be like I've seen the scarf before, Like I truly cannot. And so then, uh, there's a monogram. What's the monogram AA for Angela agon La the lying salute. So the Prince walk Stabler right over to her locker.
He opens the locker. What is that called? What is that thing like that to open a lock?
Lock? Cutter? Is it just a loutter cut a bolt cutter, bolt cutter? So he has a bolt cutter with him, you know, stabler with a tool. Okay, the principal walks into the locker, he holds it.
There's a gold, shimmery mini dress and she comes running Angela, Hayden, that's my stuff.
They find a VHS tape.
That's why you don't say anything to police, because you just admitted that everything in the locker is yours and that's your stuff. So I guess this tape is yours. But she's a fit fire and her hair is pushed back with a headband. I'm loving the look. I think like in the day, she's the head bam schoolgirl. At night she's swoop bang slut. So she says, oh, that's
that's Lisa's tape. Actually, she asked me to hold it for her, and Stabler says, well, we're going to take a look at it, and then Hayden looks so worried and we cut to the tape. It's Hayden and it's I keep saying Hayden, Angela. But I have to pick one, you know what I mean. I can't say I can't, I can't keep saying both. I'm gonna say Angela.
I'm gonna also say I'm gonna also do a little really quick Italian lesson Agnelli her last name. That's a famous Italian family, but also it means lambs in English. So I feel like they do that on purpose, Like these aren't little They're supposed to be little lambs, but they're not.
They're slutty sheep. You know they're slutty sheep. Yeah, so Hayden and so Angela. So Angela isn't a white button down and it's like open a little with a bra and a scarf, and she's looking at the camera. There's like a casting couch behind her. She's not looking thrilled. Lisa comes in, starts touching her, she takes the scarf off. They're kissing. Doctor Tanner shows up. He's fucking both of them.
So we have this tape. It's not good. And then this is what's worst of all, and it kind of goes back to what the principal said, if these kids aren't getting attention at home, they'll find it in other ways. And so basically they taught They called Angela's parents, they go, we'll give you the right to talk to her. We actually don't want to interrupt our European vacation. We're not coming back. So she has bad parents, even if they're rich.
What if they're doing like a time sure vacation in Europe? Okay, so the fact that.
They're that rich, but then they would also go, yeah, just talk to her that they wouldn't be like we're sending our lawyer you know. Ooh, you're right. It's like, what's going on? You guys really don't give a shit about this girl.
They really don't. I get yeah. Fuck so whatever.
It's a three sum and that means that she knew about Tanna and Lisa the whole time. So why have you not been helping this investigation? And she goes, this is humiliating. You didn't watch, did you? And Stabler's like, yeah, we did, babe. And they're in woodroom blinds though, and she's standing and Benson and Stabler are on either side of her, and she's like, I didn't want to do it. Lisa made me do it. She begged me to do it. She needed money, and we got five hundred dollars each.
She goes, it's true, and Benson quickly responds, you've lied to us about everything.
Why would we believe you? Now?
Benson does her voice and goes, we're trying to catch the person who killed your best friend, and you just keep lying to us. I would have loved just a hint of a funeral scene for Lisa, because it seems like no one like I just would like something. She says she didn't want them to find out what she did. Sailor goes, well, what else have you done? She goes, nothing, I swear, and then we're like, well what about Lisa? And she sighs, and she goes, she made other videos,
a lot of other videos. She was doing hardcore, she's doing porn. She took her friends to the porn store. They can't even get into the porn store without these fakes. So whatever she shows, she's on the cover of all these DVDs. She's a full blown porn star. And she was like, we can use the tape of us with Tanner as your audition tape. And it's for a guy named Max, So obviously we rushed to Max Long's studios.
He's directing a porno. We meet him.
He's very focused making this porno. The actors Matt molloy and this motherfucker is and everything. He's been working for like forty years. He's in every TV show, you can imagine, every Law and Order spin off every USA drama. He was and dropped dead gorge election and armaged it. I looked him because like, how do I know this guy?
And then I saw that the judges and drop dead gorgeous too, and I was like, yes, yeah, I.
Think he's the porno.
He's the he's the creep, he's the one with the tank no, yeah, yeah yeah. And then in Far from Heaven he's unfortunately playing the red faced man, so that's uh could have given him a name he was in hitch.
I don't know.
I just I love this little porn freak in the real world. So Stabler grabs one of the DVD's and that are stacked up, and he goes this girl Trudy Stroots, which is not even.
A sexy name.
Trutsruts like she struts, but still Trudy's not like, no offense to any truth's out there.
That's not like a super hot girl name truthy Boots. I don't know. Trudy Struts is hard for me. Oh my god.
Okay, so you also think but he's like, oh, yeah, that's Allison and they go no, it's not and he goes, no, I'm sorry, that's Allison. We have it on file and they're like, well, that's a fake, and he goes and it's and they go it's child porn, so bump, you know, but um but dumb. Okay, So then they ask where were you Monday night? He goes filming Wendy does the White House on an apartment at eighth Avenue till two am.
He says, I would have never killed her. She's like a daughter to me.
Oh Stadler's piss spins him around aggressively and goes, you get off watching your daughter have sex. He says, she wanted to do porn, you know, like she loved it. And if you want to talk to anyone, go talk to Derek's hand or not me. And they're like, yeah, we know about the doctor. He goes, whoa the guy's a doctor and they go yeah, and list says HIV. He goes, oh my god, not HIV. We have to shoot out a cancel production. I got to call my actors. We got to get them tested. This is a farce.
Poorn actors get tested every two weeks no matter what, or you can't work. You need clean bills of help. They're actually the cleanest people to fuck out in the world. So he's lawyered up fast fast, and he's like, oh, I'm going to make bail, and you know, his alibi does check out, So we're a little worried about that, but we're going to figure it out.
Find something.
The hospital was actually investigating Derek's billing and he gave a bunch of patients fake names and fake social Security numbers to treat them secretly, and Long Video was paying for the tests and treatment.
So this guy's lying.
Max has been paying Derek to secretly like treat his HIV positive porn stars without telling the other actors that the underage porn.
People have HIV. Craigan goes and I figure that's also how Lisa found out. Like if you're fifteen and you're just like hooking up, right, Like, I don't think you know you have HIV unless you get tested for it. I don't think fifteen year olds are like routinely getting tested for HIV. Right, I'm assuming she found out from this job, right, what do you think?
Yeah? For sure she did.
Okay, okay, but she she's hooked. She can't stop. So Craigan is like, stop it. Why would he risked his medical career for Max? Long and Benson goes, oh, Max was blackmailing him because he knew he was dating a fifteen year old, which means Max knew that she was a child and HIV positive.
So say like the amount of red string they must have been using on the writer's room board of this episode.
It is one of the most complex. I mean, Jerome Max Tanner the dad.
We've had like so many fucking bad guys, and I still don't even know who knew what when and what, like it's anyway going on and it's.
Still not solved. It's still not solved.
No, Stablers are like a cool clear map board and I feel like they built this just for the shot and it's really cool because we get to see them like work through the glass on this map. They figure out there is there's enough time for him to go from the shoot to Lisa like that he probably scheduled. Wendy does the White House close to the place where she was found. Trevor Langen is aka mister Mushko Hargate is Max's lawyer, and they walk in cocky.
They are like, we got it.
You know. It's Benson and Stabler at their smugginess. So they found traces of brushed aluminum in the wounds of Lisa's head, which are the same as the tripods you use, and the tripod at Max's office had Lisa's hair, skin, blood and hair in the screw threads. You're done. You're done, bitch. He's still denying and lying. They start throwing down all the evidence they have against him. Novak's like, hey, Max, follow me. They show him a precinct filled with the
whole cast of Wendy Does the White House. They're all spilling tea. They're pissed that he concealed Lisa's HIV status from them. All the porn actors are glaring at him, pissed off, and he's like, Okay, I admit I made a mistake in Casey goes yeah, and you risk all these people's like health.
That was a huge mistake.
You didn't want to stop filming, and now they all hate you so and then they also all say that you used to slap her around to shut her up. So and we know that you left the film set for twenty minutes the day she died.
You told her to meet her on the roof.
You beat her brains out because you knew you would be fucked when people found out she was a child with HIV and you had her working. Trevor's like, this is speculation, and Casey goes, you think, like, dude, you think once a jury hears the details of who you are in this case, they're gonna be like, oh, we have sympathy for this guy.
You suck. You're gonna lose in court.
And he goes, that's fine, But I didn't kill Tanner and at which I think is an admission to killing Lisa. So he but he was at a charity dinner during the killing of Tanner.
This guy, I mean.
This, this porn light lunatic, this like unethical porn guy who's molestor of children and is okay spreading HIV was at a charity dinner. What charity I want to know what charity dinner he was a part of. Yeah, Oh my god, Oh my god. So this is yeah whatever. So they arrest him for the murder of Lisa Downing. He uh, his face eludes, he's you know, he feels just only sorry himself.
He doesn't care about anyone.
The dad's in the hallway, I'm like a stabler going to tell him another evil thing that. Yeah, that she's truly struts. I can't believe, I said, streets, I'm like dying. Okay, So he's there to say thank you for finding the man who killed Lisa. And you know, I hope he remarries one day and yeah, moves moves forward in life in a positive way.
I hope so too.
But if you're just a trucker and it's you in the road, I think he might win.
Some civil he might win some civil lawsuits.
I think, yeah, yeah, I think he's gonna be able to sue the porn guy and the doctor.
I think he's dead and has no money. Oh, he's dead, I forgot already.
I think he's going to be able to sue Max Long in a civil case and get a lot of money. Good because I guess the residuals from the Soul DVD. I mean, this is a nightmare. Honestly, we just need to make sure.
A plan of how this dad can be Okay, I.
Want him off the road. Okay, So now what I'm done? I am tired.
Okay, So.
There's still so much more. Craigan called mystery prints from Tanner's apartment match the princes that were on the VHS tape. Oh my god, Stabler is thinking again. The school bell rings, and now we see Hayden Panita and a ponytail Stable, I mean a different hair cell and every scene. Stable lets her know they arrested Max Long for the murder of Lisa. She goes, great, I guess it's all over now,
no trauma over here. But they go no, he actually didn't kill doctor Tanner, and Stabler goes, do you know who did? She goes, no, why would I? Stable goes, listen, bitch, the tape in your locker. Lisa didn't ask you to keep it for her.
We know you. Stop lying, stop lying, just be honest, your your prince.
There's a gun residue on the tape, and your fingerprint is on the residue. You're done. So basically, she went to his apartment. She took her father's gun and she starts crying. She goes, I asked him for the tape back, and a tear rolls down her cheek. He said he couldn't hand over the tape because then he would go to jail. But all she kept thinking about, like someone's gonna see it, and my life's gonna be ruined. So she points the gun at him. She you know, he
tried to grab it, it went off. Stabler looks at her with you know, pity, pity on his face. She hugs him, starts bawling, crying, I'm so sorry. I just wanted my life back. Is she a victim or a psycho or both?
I can't I can't tell because is really sweet, like, let.
Me just finish.
Yeah, let's just finish. I gotta get this over with. So he I love this, but I got to end. He cups her head and pats her like a baby, saying sh He holds her as she like cries in this empty hallway. And I went to the school, I would try to be catching a peek. I'd be like, the detectives are back, Like I would be.
Like, can I go to the bath and they're hugging Angela, Yeah, I got my period, Like I would be running out of class.
But that's a digital baby.
I hope that she gets leniency in courts unless she's a psycho, and that's where I'm at. But if she's like a true fifteen year old who's been like hooked out and used and as a tape and like groomed by these older men. I hope she doesn't get a lot of jail time, but she's rich. Hopefully she gets a good lawyer.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I will say like that, why do Why didn't the two of them, her and Tanner destroy the tape?
It's bad for both of them if it gets out. Just destroy it together. Why is anyone murdered? Why is anyone keeping it?
Just destroy it, like, sit there together and go, hey, Lisa's dead. This is bad for both of us. Let's just fucking pull all the tape out. It's not the Internet. It's not on the internet yet. You know, we're pre internet.
We're pre internet right anyway.
But this is this is all wildly like tied into a bunch of different cases. So we'll get into it right now. This is kind of nuts. One of the first cases that fuck, give me a moment, I got it. Remember it's real, Jesus Christ.
Well it's not. I mean it's not. It's all like it's all little pieces.
But like there was a case that this is loosely based on, it seems, and but that is the Christina Long case, which you covered when we did Praternity, which I believe is season nine about Christina Long was like a girl. I believe she was like living in Connecticut and she moved there and then she was dating guys she met on the internet, and then one of them killed her. So it was that's like a semi link. But if you want to hear more about that case,
go back to our episode Praternity. Lisa covers that case. Obviously, they talk about sex bracelets, which everywhere you look up, you look that up. They are called an urban legend.
It's the urban legend of sex bracelets. So essentially, like different colored gel bracelets have been popular since like the two thousands, but in two thousand and three they had like a slutty little comeback, and urban legends spread that they were part of this like widespread sex game where teens would wear the bracelet that corresponded to the act they would perform, just like the principal said, yellow hugging, purple kissing, red lap dance, which I'm assuming lap dance
is just like dry humping, blue oral sex, and then black intercourse. And it was said also that if a guy came up to you and like broke your bracelet or like ripped it off you, that's like a coupon that they can use later to do that sex act with you. And then like a bunch of schools banned the bracelets of like schools in Florida, you know where they love banning shit. And then people also likened the
bracelet thing to like rainbow parties. Like these parties were allegedly girls would wear all these different lipsticks and then blow different guys. Honestly, when you look back at it, it all seems like satanic panic. It seems like it's overhyped hysteria. There wasn't a lot of proof. There weren't a lot of kids coming forward going oh yeah, we actually did these parties all the time.
Like did you ever wear those plastic bracelets and you could kind of like hook them into each other and it looks cooler.
That kind I wore, like the skinny gel, yeah, skinny gel. Yeah.
The two thus the three comeback was a lot with like the live strong bracelets and like the ones that are thicker that you see now it is you know, yeah, yeah, so those were like people we were in those colored
ones as well. But it just feels like there's not a lot of proof that these things were actually happening, Like there's not a lot of you know, you would think there were to at least be like therapists speaking and being like, yes, my clients are telling me they're doing that, like you know, even if there's not a bunch of kids running to newspapers going yeah, we did this. I mean two thousand and three is like roughly your high school time, Lisa, like you you were, did you
hear people doing this? Like, I just don't think that this was like actually done. I think this was like a thing that parents were like, people are doing this, or maybe it was like a joke that started out like what Hayden Pantier's character says, like, yeah, I'm the one that started calling them sex bracelets, but it's not real anyway. That's a little a little info on that. Then this is very interesting. Part of this episode is based on this case involving Tracy Lords.
Now do you know Tracy Lords is? Okay?
She's like I know her from like cry Baby and
she had a small part on Melrose Place. Like she was one of the first I would say, adult film actresses to make it into mainstream stuff that I knew of, Like you know, like you everything you knew about Tracy Lords when I was like a teen, was like, oh, she used to do porn or whatever, you know, And essentially this ended up becoming a Supreme Court case, the United States versus Excitement Video, which is obviously spelled X DASH C I T E M E N T so excitement.
And initially what happened was this guy named Ruben Gottsman, he owns Excite Entertainment and he's making all these, you know, adult movies and Tracy Lords isn't a bunch of them. And then an LAPD officer and an FBI agent went undercover together as retailers who wanted to like buy his videos, and they there were like tons of meats. This was like a long operation over the course of nineteen eighty
six and nineteen eighty seven. And then over the course of this operation, these officers said that Gotsman admitted to knowing that Lords was underage when he had her starring in his movies. So in nineteen eighty nine he's found guilty and he sentenced to one year in jail at a one hundred thousand dollars fine. That doesn't seem like a ton, but it is eighty nine. I think before the child sex abuse images were like as treated the way I think that they are more seriously now.
So I did not know this.
So then in nineteen ninety two, his lawyers get it overturned on appeal based on the law being vague grammatically, like the law is about transporting child pornography, is what they were calling it at the time, And they use the word knowingly, and they were talking about it being confusing the way the law is worded, And I think that's like what they borrow from in this episode where the guy's like, well, but I didn't know that, Like I got her ID and her idea was on file
as the right age, and so I didn't. So that's what I was kind of asking before, Like even outside of like the adult film industry, if you're just like dating a girl and she tells you she's twenty one and she shows you her ID, and you're like, for all intents and purposes, I think she's twenty one, even though you and I both know you fucking know she's fifteen or sixteen or whatever. What it like legally, what are the what is the recourse?
So I don't I don't really know. I'm sure some of our lawyer.
Lawyers will write us and tell us, I'm maybe it varies, But so in ninety two it gets overturned because knowingly is confusingly worded, they said. But then it goes all the way back up to the Supreme Court and it's the United States versus Excitement Video was a federal case brought in nineteen ninety four in Los Angeles in California federally, so it's California, but like it happened in LA and they the Supreme Court upheld the original conviction.
They were like they were basically like, yeah, I guess.
You could read it as knowingly this way, but you could also read it that it is the right way, like you could read it in the lawful way or the unlawful way. And of course, like Scalia and Thomas were the ones that dissented because they were like, they're all about every word in the Constitution, like being exact, and that's obviously what the point of.
The time until they get paid off and then it doesn't matter.
Right until somebody buys you a fucking buys your kid into college, and then you're like, it's actually, there's nowhere that it says that I can't do that. But then this is like the most interesting case and it's it's loosely based, but I think this is like I've never heard of this case. I thought it was really kind of like neat. So I'm going to talk about this one. And this is the case of Bob Crane. And this episode is you know, there's a you'll see which part
I think is based on this. But Crane is a guy from Connecticut. He was a radio DJ and a personality who interviewed a lot of famous stars back in like the fifties and sixties, like Marilyn Monroe, Bob Hope, Charlton Heston. And he's on this LA radio station. He meets Carl Reiner, who's a TV writer and producer on his show, and he gives him apart on some small show. Then he gets another part on a show. Then eventually he gets cast on the show called Hogan's Heroes as Hogan.
And this is a show that I used to hear about all the time because there is a character on it named Colonel Klink, which is not my last name, but you can tell that to every math teacher I've ever had.
Like well, and then the Simpsons that's how I know most things.
And they ain't made fun.
Of this, Oh they made fun of Hogans Well, it's actually reference.
I don't know if it was a full make fun, but it was a reference.
It makes sense because it's kind of wild. Like this show came out in nineteen sixty five, so it's twenty years only after the Holocaust in World War two and this is taking place. This show is about POW's in Germany, but it's a comedy, so it's like and a bunch of the guys playing the Germans are Jews who actually one of them escaped Auschwitz, like he had a tattoo,
so it's kind of like that. They thought the show was really good, they thought it was well read, and they were like, we're going to be in this show.
So it's wild.
This radio DJ now is the like number one on the call sheet for Hogan's Heroes, and I just used to hear about it so fucking much because everyone you to always go ah, Colonel Clink, and I'm like, it's spelled differently, And I'm also too young for that show anyway. Crane was also Bob. Crane was allegedly also a sex and porn addict.
Okay, he had.
A wife and three kids with her, but he had affairs with cast mates. He had affairs with people all the time. He was like just a perennial woman chaser. He divorced his first wife and he married a co star named Patricia Olsen, and you know, but he cheated on her all the time as well. So he has this big role on this show, one hundred and sixty eight episodes from sixty five to seventy one on Hogan's Heroes, and everybody knew him. But then things kind of slowed
down for him. Some say they thought that maybe he was getting a reputation because he would take polaroids of women that he'd hooked up with and he would just like show them around on the crew, to the crew on sets. And there was a rumor that executives found out about this and we're like, get this guy out of here. But I don't know, it's also the early seventies. I don't know if anybody gave a shit about that back then. In nineteen seventy two, Like so, right after
the show ends, he still got some fame. He took his son, who was twenty one at the time, to the premiere of Deep Throat, and his son talks about how he was so pumped to be around all these porn stars and meeting all these porn stars and like he was just very into this kind of stuff. So after things are slowed down for him, he doesn't really have much going on, but he still has like some
level of fame. So he buys the rights to this play called Beginner's Luck and he starts toring around doing Beginner's Luck at dinner theaters.
Okay, and you know that's still a thing. Is dinner theater a thing?
I don't know, because dinner theater was always a thing for like old people and you would eat and what I mean, I bet it is. But I do think it is truly like the depths of Hell because it's like people eat it. I mean, I don't know, we do our shows while people eat, but it just feels like the kind of people you don't feel like, yeah you're doing like yeah, you're doing like Death of a Salesman, like a monolog and you hear people like scraping their
fork and knife like on their salisbury steak. Like that sounds like I mean in Soap Dish, a movie that I'm obsessed with Kathy Moriarty's character classically has to go back to dinner theater at the end when when everything falls apart for her. So that's kind of was considered for a long time to be like the bottom when you have to do dinner theater.
But great question.
I mean, I don't know, let us know if there's dinner theater around you anyone. So he starts touring around doing dinner theater and at this play called Beginner's Luck. Now, earlier in his career, when he was more on top, he had met this guy named John Henry Carpenter who was a regional sales manager for Sony Electronics, and he had helped a lot of celebrities set up their av
equipment and stuff at their homes or whatever. And these two guys became fast friends because they like to hang out at bars and chase babes.
Okay, they like to pick up women.
And Carpenter introduced Crane to the world of videotape so that he could tape his sexual exploits and kind of make his own amateur pornography. And that's sort of where like the Doctor Tanner and the tape come in for all of this, okay. Carpenter allegedly scheduled his business trips around Crane's tour schedule so that they could like make
these movies together on the road. Like it's unclear whether like they would be like fucking in the same room or like whether one guy would be in there watching and taping it, or whether he would just set it up while Crane went and hooked up with these women. I don't know, but they were making these movies allegedly together. So now in nineteen seventy eight, so if you think about it, it's like he's seven years out from his big show ending. Crane is living temporarily in Scottsdale, Arizona,
for a run of the show. At dinner at a dinner theater there, and a co star enters his apartment because he didn't show up to a lunch meeting, and she finds Crane, forty nine years old, dead bludgeoned with a weapon.
There is allegedly like the.
Head injuries really bad, like his sheets are drenched with blood, like it's really really bad blunt force trauma to the.
Head and there.
The weapon is never found, but it is believed by some investigators to be a camera tripod, much like in the episode and elected the episode.
But I also like, anytime something like this happens, I'm like, I feel like I'd hide the weapon.
Good.
Yeah, well I can't. No one hide a weapon. I don't know, especially in New York. It's like throw it off any bridge. It's gone forever, you know. Yeah, I kiss the CCT and they did.
I just like don't get how all these weapons are constantly found.
You couldn't buy a new tripod. Yeah, they find them in sewer grades and shit. Yeah it's crazy. But in this case, they never found the tripods. Maybe this guy did hide it better, but investigators believed it was a tripod. There was an electrical cord tied around his neck as well, but that had nothing to do with his death, Like so maybe the person was trying to make it look
like something else happened. Scottsdale, aras Zona, at the time, didn't even have a homicide department, Like this is nineteen seventy eight, so they're in over their heads with this one. Like a celebrity has found bludgeoned in their district. They don't know what's going on, but they didn't have much to go on. Evidence wise either no forced entry, nothing
is stolen. They do find his videotape collection, which is extensive and wild, and that is what leads them to Carpenter, who actually had been in Arizona that month to hang out with Crane. They eventually search. I hardly can't even believe all this. I know they I just don't know why I didn't know that. I just feel like this is something we would know.
I know.
It feels like, well, wait, there's a movie about it. Let me get to it. Okay, So they find they search Carpenter's car. They find blood smears in his car that match Crane's blood type, but there wasn't DNA testing yet, so it's like you can't even really prosecute based on blood type. It's like blood types are one hundreds and thousands of people. Millions of people have every blood type. So twelve years later, so the case kind of goes nowhere.
Twelve years later, in nineteen ninety it gets reopened because some new DA or somebody comes in and wants to clear all these old cases. And then in ninety two they arrest Carpenter. He goes on trial in ninety four. Bob Crane's son testifies, Yeah, my dad was trying to ditch Carpenter.
He didn't want to be friends anymore.
He found he thought he was clingy and he he's like my dad called me and told me he wanted to like start making some changes in his life and that that started with cutting off some of these friendships like what he had with Carpenter, like you know, sex capaid buddies. The son also claimed that Bob Crane called Carpenter the night before that he was killed to end
the friendship. So investigators and the media starts speculating, Oh, Carpenter's angry that like Crane is going to be like ditching him and sort of cutting off his supply because he got a lot of women by hanging out with this like celeb, you know, and he.
Didn't want that to end.
So Carpenter's lawyers, though, in court they show proof like none of this is true.
These two guys are good as gold.
They had dinner the night before the murder together, and then the camera tripod theory was just a theory because the murder weapon had never been found. They pointed out a ton of sloppy police work, including that some evidence was lost by the police. Like again, this is they are now at trials sixteen years after the crime, and they're in a district where that didn't even have a homicide department when this happened. So yeah, they fucked up.
They lost a bunch of evidence. There was like genetic
material that got lost. They also presented the idea that since Bob Crane had filmed so many women having sex with them and many of them unknowingly, like to bring the word back knowingly or unknowingly, you know, that it could have been any of those women that committed the murder to stop the tape from getting out a Lah Hayden, Pantier Angela Agnelli, so not to mention that each one of these women's husbands or boyfriends could also be suspects.
So they basically just introduced reasonable out reasonable out reasonable doubt. Carpenter gets acquitted, and he maintained his innocence until he died just four years later in nineteen ninety eight. So
this case is still unsolved today, which is wild. And because they basically went back and tried to test DNA once DNA came back in, but they had lost a bunch of DNA and they they found some DNA matched a male and then other DNA was inconclusive, So it doesn't exonerate Carpenter, but it does seem like there would have been a maybe.
I don't even know if they had Carpenter's DNA before he died. I think they did.
They did, but it doesn't exonerate him, but it still doesn't solve anything. So eventually this was made into a movie called Auto Focus and Greg Kinnear which where the fuck is Greg Kenneyer? I feel like he was in everything for a little while. So this movie came out in two thousand and two, Auto Focus and Greg Kenneer plays Crane and Lisa's mom's favorite actor Willem Dafoe plays Carpenter. Okay, and guess who plays Patricia his second wife Maria Bellow aka Calvin's mom from Law and Order SBA.
Yeah, so everything comes full circle.
So I don't know if this movie Auto Focus like did well or got anything, but it was basically like about this Hogan's heroes Guy Rita Wilson's in the movie, Michael McKean's in the movie, like, but it's about you know, how this fucking TV star gets murdered and like, yeah, his case is still unsolved. So but I mean, I kind of believe in the Oukham's razor of it all.
It does feel like it would have been Carpenter, you know, like the most obvious thing is like that, or maybe that's Murphy's law, but like it just feels like it's probably Carpenter and they just simply didn't have enough evidence and the police bungled it. But no, you don't say, yeah, yeah, you can't be It's not impossible anyway. That is that that is the crimes of Hooked.
Yeah, it's a lot of It's a lot from the episode, but also like such an intersection TV the Holocaust.
Yeah, and this episode was all over the place, so obviously, I mean I wanted to I wanted to know if there was like a true story of like high school girls like from like you know, sort of participating in sex work for clothes or for you know whatever. But I guess that might be kind of too vague or I don't know if that's I'm sure plenty of girls do stuff like that.
I don't know, I don't know. I was wondering if that was.
Based on like a specific thing, but there was nothing I could find anywhere about it, so I'm sure the listeners will let me know if that's the case.
But anyway, we.
Could interview Hayden Panetare but from Remember the Titans.
Yes, baby girl.
Yeah, well we don't have a guest today, so we can dive right into the post mortem a lot to say, oh.
My god, oh my god, oh my god. Yeah that was fun.
Yeah, crazy episode crazy, so many twists, turns, like eighteen different little moments clues, like it really is a wild episode, and we I think we did catch three plot holes, so.
I don't know.
Yeah that's something about us, Like I just don't even understand they were, like were they like we got to get a certain number of guest stars in this episode, like just so many extra characters, so many people, and yeah kind of.
Care at her best. I'm sorry, I like teen sluts getting in trouble. I like it the character mean, I like babes. Like sorry, sorry that I like teen girls committing I.
Feel like in a weird SB though she is the girl that grew up from the episode abuse, like she like her parents were in Europe. They go, yeah, you could talk to her, like you know, like it altered a universe, Like that's just that little girl that was obsessed with Olivia and wanted to have a girl's day, just like now goes to Catholic school and hooks up for clothes.
Like this is so off topic, Like I don't know if it's because it's winter and I've been wearing a lot of clothes or like I've been in a rush. I don't think I've seen my tattoos in a long time, and I'm like looking at the zoom and I'm like, oh wow, I forgot look at all those or I don't think about it well because sometimes I'm like what am I doing? But then I look at them, like, oh, my arm looks so cool. I'm like a cool, Yeah, cool,
that is cool. As Hayden Paneterre, Yeah listen, it sucks, but I like the overall lesson And it's like if you're if you're not getting attention at home, you're gonna get it somewhere else. And it could be just being a people pleaser or like grades. You know, there was like this one incest case and this is actually happening podcast where like perfectionism is also a response to abuse, but like maybe not attention that might be different.
I just I don't know.
It's just how you can't escape your trauma and it manifests in all these different ways. And not to go back to our government, but these are like Trump, these are maniacs. These like you've seen Trump's Parencylon Musk's parents, bad parents, bad Yeah, those psychos, psychos. You can't escape the trauma. You got to dive in or you're gonna be stuck or evil.
Like it. It is hard.
And that episode, that one thing has just stuck with me, what an electric episode with that one line, like really kind of sick. It sticks with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And they didn't get attention for different things. One it's like we're poor, who has to work hard? The mom's dead, and then the other it's like we're rich, we're in Europe, we don't care.
So it's like I love that too, like I love us to be I I do you know?
We found all these little moments, but like such an incredible show.
Yeah, and wow, like this girl, this little teen, the main teen who dies. I mean she goes from hooking up with half of of the people on the teen dating site to hooking up with older men who are buying her stuff to full porn career and she just turned fifteen. We got to get her some more attention. We need the dad to get another job. He needs to stay home.
But he didn't know.
That's the whole thing, Like she was duplicitous, is that the But I mean her mom, I mean her mom's.
Death is probably what kicked out all all of this off. You know, she's probably just like very traumatized by that and then was looking for to fill the void.
But there's nothing old men love more than a teen, so that's a lot of it.
And Bob Crane, Colonel Roberty Hogan himself Bob Crane loving the girls. I don't think he liked him underage according to what I was reading. But you know this guy, I mean, he had a successful life and then it was just his He just liked the women too much and it led him to it led him astray or I don't know if it led to his ultimate death.
I don't know what the fuck happened.
But if you have any tips on the old Bob Crane murder, let us know. But anyway, let's uh, that was a great episode. Top to your teens. Yeah, let's move into our What was Mister peg Do, which is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization or a cause, or a document a documentary something to give you more info about today today's episode, We're gonna do something a little different today because we got this amazing email from two of our listeners named Coco and Quinn,
who work at the Center for Reproductive Rights. And that is a center that is a global legal advocacy organization headquartered in New York City that seeks to advance reproductive rights such as abortion. And the email that they sent us is so awesome. Lizai will forward it to you. Wait, no, you got it. You got it as well. She originally sent it to you. I don't know if you saw it.
But bump it up. Bump it up. Yeah, I'll bump it up.
But these girls sent us the most creative email where they use like the names of all the episodes, like basically it says less than a month in our work has already been majorly shaken by the born psychopath in the White House. Coco is our dearly beloved social media manager everybody follow at repro Rights on Instagram and is underwater trying to keep up with the bad news and obscene attacks that like, they just used all SVU episode titles in the whole email, and it goes on and on.
Quinn's role is doing global repro research. She can confirm that it's literally disturbing how all these anti human rights politicians and policies around the world are gaining traction. We're terrified that all the progress that has been gained towards liberalizing abortion laws will decline and fall in part because
of the devastating, disappearing act of us AID. So, like, it's just this wonderful email, and I like the I believe we are obviously a very pro reproductive rights podcast, so I wanted to call them out, thank them for their email, and send you guys to the Center for Reproductive Rights. Follow repro Rights on Instagram and get more information about that, because I'm sure that that organization is getting hit from all over the place from the fuckings born.
Psychopath in chief.
So follow repro Rights on Instagram, like we said, and then you can also go to reproductive rights dot org to get more information about amazing organization. And again, thank you so much to Coco and Quinn for listening and for all the work that you do that will be linked in our stories the day this episode comes out and saved forever on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod in our WWSPD highlight.
Thank you so much for that, and what do you know? Another episode next week Spellbound from season eighteen, episode eighteen not about a spelling bee, shockingly about witches or is it?
We love you guys, We'll see you next week. I appreciate you so much.
Bie, That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
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As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.
Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork.
Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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