Honor w/ Aasif Mandvi

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

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Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and.

I'm Li's a Trigger. We talk SVU true crime celebrity guests.

I'm up top.

We catch up, we see what's up, catch up and chat and what has been going on. You've been on the road. I just went away for a weekends. Tell us about your camp weekend.

I am.

I do a little camp weekend with my girls every weekend, and like last every weekend, every weekend, sorry, every weekend.

She's meeting up with the camps every weekend. I have no other friends.

No. Every year and last year they actually incorporated it with coming to see us on the road. So this year I was like, I'll travel for you guys. So I did go to I flew to New York and then I drove up to Newport, Rhode Island and it was fun. It's very beautiful up there, a lot of old mansions and uh, we had a blast. I laughed a lot and we had fun and yeah, I explained podcasting to a bunch of people that don't really know about it. You know, it was fun. And a lot

I'm on the grand Baby. Well I'm what I'm looking for. Because Taylor Swift has a home and Rhode Island, and I'm.

A Watch Hill. I believe she's in Watch Hill. Yeah, high watch And you'll be very proud of me. Because somebody in our group sent a photo that had obviously come up on their Facebook or something of Taylor paddle boarding with Tavy Gevinson in Rhode Island, and she was like, she was there the same weekend as us and I go. Honestly, the weather was not good for paddleboarding. It was cold, and I don't think her and Tavy had been friends for a while. I think this picture is old, like

And she reportedly paid for the mansion by wiring seventeen point seventy five million in cash to a realtor in twenty thirteen.

Can you believe just the amounts the amounts, I'll take it sending you money.

I'm sending you a venmo for seventeen million. Did you get it? Well, it's so funny.

So it's like the dining room seats eight and the kitchen comes with amenities like a sub zero fridge.

Yeah, of course it does. What are you talking about.

It's a seventeen million dollars home, you know, right, there's a white refrigerator in there.

So like a dining room for eight.

It's like, show me where the indoor like pickleball is or whatever, you know, there's got to be And now you got to show me some shit.

Wait, so why were you guys in Rhode Island? Does someone live there or no? And but you guys got a vacation home.

Yeah, we got like a.

Vacation home, very kind of cheesy with like my heart is at the beach, you know, follow the waves.

Of your you know, all the like beachy shit was up in the house.

It was just kind of like everybody lives a little bit spread and most people live in the Vermont area, like near our camp, but it's just like that's really far for me and my sister to go, and I'm already flying across the country. So we just did something that was mostly three hours for everybody to get there, and so it was really fun.

But I also, you guys sing camp songs. No, but we talk about camp a lot.

We talk about funny stories and like like just funny things, and a lot of them are still involved and still work there, and you know, like I work sometimes there and you know, it's a lot of and like the place has changed a lot. We talk about that and how what changes we think are good and bad. You know, we're in dilums, but they also are all very very funny, and we have like a really funny time and just like make fun of each other and we had some

I'm like, girls, I don't think you're shopping at old Navy.

Like I remember seeing the clip online and going where are they with plastic hangers? And then my sister's like, they're at old Navy and I was like, this is crazy, but you know, whatever, make the money. But this is what blew my mind. And you're gonna think I'm such a prude or something. I'm not prude. I just I watch Housewives I have not seen I saw a scene where Danielle gets naked and gets into bed with a guy and they just show him going down on her and I was like, they're just.

Showing them Bravo, Like I missed the go down, but she was full as crap crawling on a bed.

Yes, and then he's under the covers and then he comes up from under the covers.

See I miss that because I turned away and not look at her, but crawling Because I do think she's just like I mean, I don't want it's rude, but like she's pathetic.

Yeah, I mean she seems like a troubled person. But I just like was like, she knows cameras are on her, and everybody's just wasted.

She's a blackout drunk. Yeah.

It just reminded me of real world shit, like, and I just didn't think Bravo kind of had that stuff. It's not like I'm oh my god, I've never seen reality people get fucked up and have sex. I obviously have seen it, and on like on Love Island and stuff, people say that it's like.

Well and you yeah, because in Atlanta they flip the cameras up.

Yeah, but even on Summer House, Jesse Solomon and it's his first season, he brought home a girl and he

I think there's like an illness that sets in with like the fame or whatever like.

But there wasn't any But this is the thing.

Lindsay and her were friends, and so it was like one of Lindsay's friends that she dragged along. And then everyone because they hate Lindsay, took Danielle's side last year and if you see Paige and Amanda are talking and they're like, wait, Danielle's kooky, right, Like they finally are realizing that she is a wacko that Lindsay kind of pushed throughout all this.

Yeah, I was just like I felt like an old lady. I was like to my sister, I go, did they always show this much nudity? Like I just couldn't believe I was seeing a butt crack and like, you know, we just don't see that on the Housewives really, Like definitely there's allusions to them having sex with pirates and stuff like that.

We've seen them shit on the.

Floor, sure, I just hadn't seen like a full black and white night cam someone getting eaten out on uh on Bravo, and I guess I just didn't know that we were there, but yeah.

Yeah, I guess.

So I'm just like, I want Sierra and West to work. I want Wes to not be so annoyed with not getting fucked.

Yeah, I mean, he is such a little star. I'm getting the verb. I'm getting the vibe of the show. Like, you know, I my sister goes So you don't watch the show, you seem to know a lot about what's going on.

I go, well, Lisa tells me a lot.

But also if you follow Bravo and Botox or Bravo Bitches or whatever, like all the accounts you through osmosis, I know about people that are below Deck. I know about people that are on Summerhouse. You know, so I kind of know the main drips and drops. But now my big thing is like I like, I mean, I was interviewing my sister, I was like, so, what do you think about Lindsay and Carl?

Do you think Carl is gay?

Like I was just giving getting all of her opinions on it, But I'm gonna watch I have it all on my DVR for this season.

I'm gonna get into it now, yeah.

Because they are just so troubled in their relationship. But this idea that Carl's an angel and Lindsay's a manipulative psycho is just so played out and wrong and like I don't know.

I don't yeah, Like I saw this conversation with his parents where I was like, yeah, like they're sitting here telling you not to get married, but like they're only hearing your.

Side of it, Like I don't know, it just it didn't.

But also they shouldn't get married, but you should have this conversation with your wife. Like It's just what I'm seeing now online is that he was very much setting this all up to leave her in this big way.

Like instead of talking to her.

It's kind of sand of all ish of like I'm gonna win this breakup, right, to set it up in the way I need it to look, so don't I look good? Because it's also this idea is because he's sober and he has gone through tragedy that he's suddenly at this like great person and it's right. No, he's been awful to women since season one, and we can say it's just substance abuse, but it's not because we know someone that sent me an apology email or DM

Luck on sobriety. That's very hard.

I support you, but also I think you have a regressive view on race and women that has nothing to do with your alcoholism. Yeah, but before I can even respond, he started contacting mutual friends of ours and trying to get my phone number and relaying more apologies, and he wanted to be forgiven right then and there. And I was like, oh, that's actually not how sobriety or nine steps, tens or whatever twelve steps work. And I talked to someone else who's been sober for decades who's like, that's

It's like alcohol or not, you suck.

It's him talking about how he hates Neil deGrasse Tyson because he doesn't hate trans people.

It's like it's crazy, yeah, sober or not? I hate your worldview, like you know.

Yeah so. And also like what.

Carl is mad at is lindsay going, can you please make a job?

Have a job.

I need you to make money so if we have a kid, I can like stay home for a little bit. And he's like that crazy bitch wants me to work, and it's like, you are actually in your forties and why don't you have a job, Like she's not the crazy one. But then also what the internet is saying is like we're denying that they're not on this show that they're making money for and that he is making money off the internet and like deals.

So I don't know. But they also live in an apartment that's ten grand a month.

Yeah, and Caitlin was saying Cage's place is like nine grand a month.

I was like, damn, Page.

Has one of the top five podcasts in the world right now, and she does fashion things with Amazon and she does correspondence stuff like Age is making money, so that's different. She can afford it, but Carl doesn't. Like he's also not living there. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, well I don't know, but it's so funny. So on my little my trip with some friends, one of my guy friends mentioned like, how Arianna it's to get over Sandoval and not be angry, And I fucking lost it

I'm like, yeah, so stop it.

Stop fucking defending your shit when you know nothing about him. He still owes his mother two hundred thousand dollars, Like fuck.

Off, he still does.

Oh my god.

Anyone being like Arianna, move on, it's like it's also it's TV. So if it was a TV plot, yes, you would want someone to move on. In a TV plot of scripted characters, you'd be like, we've been on this.

For too long.

They're real people like this really happened to her in front of the whole fuck three months ago.

Yeah, like she's gonna be unpacking it forever, and people are using her like financial and like fame, success and already dating someone as like reasons to like, well, then you're over it, right, it's nine years. It took me like, yeah, I don't know. It's misogyny everywhere. I guess, I don't know.

I went to a little party last week that I know that I would have gone to with you if you were still living in la.

But yeah, it was out there.

It was tough because I think it was in one of the locations I've always dreamed of going.

Yes, So I was like, well, I can I think I can say. I mean, I I went to the Hack season three premiere party at the Chateau Marmont, and I had only ever been to the Chateau Marmont one time, to the bar when I brought my parents, which is so crazy, but I lived up the street from it, like I lived down the street from it for so long. My parents were in town, and I was like, oh, let's just go pop.

In there and have a drink at the bar.

And it was early, so they were like and it was a Saturday, but they were like, yeah, you guys can sit here, but like in ninety minutes, we have to give your table away. We were like great, So we just had like a drink and saw a little bit of the bar, but I had never seen like the hotel and everything. And when I first walked in, people were smoking cigarettes, and I just remember thinking, that's weird,

Was a guy who was it. No, I did go with Guy.

I drove Guy, but I brought my friend John Millheiser as my h Okay, okay, it's a very funny comic.

Follow him on Instagram. He's so funny everybody.

He is the one who got us Marsha Gay Harden, Yes, famously famously he was our connect to Marcia Gay and he so Guy.

I ended up picking up Guy as well, so the three of us showed up together.

We were kind of like a crew the whole time.

But I got to meet funny people I know from the Internet that I that I got to be friend and it was really fun and I saw a lot of fun people, and I was like, this would have been a really great Lisa moment if she was still in LA.

But you know, it was you're having great moments.

Because I love that show and I've always wanted to go to the Chateau.

So that was hard.

But I did get an invite, and I think I'm going to go to the Tom Brady Roast.

Oh wait, where is that? It's here. It's gonna be at the key of Forum. Yeah, that's like where I saw. That's like where Madonna played. No, she was at Staples. No, she was at the Forum.

Oh at the switch maybe because well we got tickets.

It was safe, I remember, but I but I actually spoke to John Early at the Cans. I was talking to John about the Madonna concert and he said it was so awesome because the concert was just like this isn't for kids, like Madonna is for adults.

And that's what I.

Like about, you know, I could I could have told him that when I went with my family during the Round World tour, I could have definitely told him it was not a family.

Friendly concert, family event.

Yeah, John Earley was actually just on Watch What Happens Live.

It was really exciting.

Come now his Indian made Yeah, I guess I'll announce I am going to film on Netflix our special. I'm excitedly excited, and that's gonna be June fourth in New York. You can go to my page if you'd like to get tickets, but I'd like for it to sell out sooner than later, so get to it.

And if you forget where she said to go, also, that's messed up. Live dot com has a link that says Lisa's website and that takes you to all of her ticket links for all of her road stuff and the Netflix thing. And we've already announced it on our Instagram, but some of you aren't following us there, so you know if you are, uh, if you already know, but if you're in the New York area anywhere, get tickets.

There's two shows.

I think I'm gonna Yeah, it's gonna be a cool background, cool outfit.

I gotta, you know, figure out my set.

But.

I'm like so pumped. I think it's gonna be amazing. Yeah, she's a Netflix thoroughly everybody.

Yeah, the industry is fucksed right now.

So it does feel very you know, it feels like a huge I.

Literally keep everybody keeps going how is everything? And I go, well, La is kind of terrible and everybody is upset, but Lisa's having the greatest year of all time.

Like I'm like, Lisa's doing great.

But no.

At this Hacks party, I was talking to people whose names I will not mention, who are well known and wealthy that were like, yeah, things are not looking good out there right now, and I was like, you're struggling. Oh no, Like so it's just it's just, you know what, Ella is in a rebuilding year after some strikes, and now twenty twenty five, you can expect to probably see a lot of good shit. But in the meantime, Lisa's crushing it. Go see her live and tape her Netflix.

Oh I okay, so sorry.

I keep talking about Soul Cycle as much as I do, but I guess you know, that's what happens to me. I went to the best class I have ever been to the theme was well also, Jordan, this teacher was out of this world. I think I have a new favorite teacher in New York, Diego forever in La but Tea Pain Pitbull Usher O.

I love that.

I don't think I've ever been so hyped in my life. I was so tired afterwards. I did take a nap till ten thirty at night.

Like it was because.

Even up top, she goes, listen, There's not going to be any spiritual moments. We're just going hard and nothing is better than t Paint Usher Pitbull.

I mean, I like it was electric. It was electric.

You know.

One of my favorite songs I used to work out to was an Usher song called Without You that I think is like with David Ghetta or something. It has like slow moments and then it like really freaking pumps up like and I think that's probably the vibe of a lot of the Tea Paint mister worldwide Pitbull and uh.

Uh just electric. Tonight, I'm going into a Taylor Swift Muna ride.

So I met one of the Muna's at the thing and we talked about you.

Sure you did? Okay? Love that? Okay?

I was being mentioned at the Chateau, which is all your air.

Your name was in the air at the chateau.

And the band number I met from MUNA was so nice and was like, oh.

You owe that thing with Lisa she I love her, blah blah blah.

So yeah, you are beloved by at least one third of MUNA, which is very, very huge to me. Yeah, that'll be a fun ride. The only other thing I had written down on my little notes to talk to you about was I did watch Mean Girls the musical yesterday on my flight home.

Okay, I've seen it. Did we talk about it at all? I think, I don't think so.

I know you've seen the musical, so I wasn't sure if you'd seen the movie yet.

I saw it on a plane as well. Okay.

And I think Renee Rap is so talented. She's like a great talent. And I think Rachel McAdams is incredible. But I think Amanda Seifried is a talent, and it is very clear when you watch the updated version that like what a master she is at what she does. But with Renee Rap watching her, I'm like, oh, you're fucking good every moment, every face to like, I just am like a few can of hers. I thought it

Doesn't compare the two. I would say the exact same thing. I would like the two other girls, the Karen and the Gretchen, were so sweet and cute girls, and I would love to see them do more stuff. They just don't really hold a candle, I think to the two originals. But then Renee rap I was like, you do have something that is a more modern mean girl thing going on that I liked about her. You know, they aged her into today, and yeah.

I love that.

To Meadows and Tina Fan, I love that. But this is very It's taken the hair Spray journey, right. It was like Hair Spray the movie, then the musical, than the musical on Broadway, and then a movie based on the musical from Broadway.

Like yeah, a lot of.

Yes, but I thought it was It was definitely a great plain movie. I thought it was really fun and I liked a lot of the music, and I had never heard really any of it, except for I'd heard that Apex Predator song a little bit somewhere, but I really hadn't.

Heard any of the music. What did you think of the main girl though, the Katie character.

Yeah, yeah, it was fine. Everything, everyone was fine. But the thing is, I'm glad people can sing. I love the music from I like the songs like I was very into that that kind of element. I also have to give a shout out to the person that did come out of their way to come see me perform at Springfield, Missouri for my friend Kenny's Funeral festival, and I would say my set was unhinged and maybe people

Maybe I just do comedy. I did go last.

I was the last comedian of the whole festival, and I would just say I wish I didn't have that pressure, because I buckled under the pressure. Everyone else was so funny, people were destroying, they were amazing, and I did call a woman a cut in the front row listen, and I.

Think that's just what Kenny would have wanted.

I have to be honest, I think that's something he would have been like classic Lisa.

Yeah, it was really it was a class it was I mean it was fun, but I felt, you know, a little like eh, but yeah, but it was funny to then take a photo with someone who was excited to come and I was like, you couldn't wait till I was in Saint Louis. But if you are listening, thank you for being there and you know coming to that show.

Yeah, and we're gonna get started. But just wanted to remind people that if you want to support our beautiful little show and buy any of the products that we talk about in our ads exactly rightmedia dot com forward slash promos baby, you can find and also I'm posting them actually, like today I'm going to post a story with all the promo codes in it, so there will be a highlight in our stories that has all of

Well, and our new merch is so cute.

I just it's got the mug and the toe bag and the mail so fucking cute.

So the T shirt and the mug are sold out right now. The toe bag is still up there. There's some smaller items, but also we're gonna be getting more of the T shirts soon, so stay tuned for that. And that's that's that. On match we get started. I think we gotta we gotta here we go.

All right, I would say, yay, but this isn't it. This isn't a YA episode. Okay, we're doing Honor season two, episode.

Two, not a YA episode.

No, I would say, I get ready to get very sad, you know.

Get ready to be devastated, devastated, devastated.

So we're in a park and it's a full on crime scene, and then a horse cop is telling Benson and Stabler in a walk and talk that you know, a woman was found moaning, bleeding and half naked and the face and privates beaten. And early seasons and then late seasons, I feel graph you know, we got like yeah, fifteen years in the middle where it was not as and then the first few and the last few.

Just they wanted to grab our attention.

And then maybe like after Stabler life, no, like a it was way after Stabler left that they started going back into the violent stuff.

I don't know why, I don't know.

But and then so we see your body being put on a stretcher, but there are also rocks that are bagged, and so some cop goes an old fashioned stoning and then it's a rape as well, stab wound on the chest as like the left side so towards the heart. And then the EMT New York accidents are so strong it seems like they should be working at a pizza shop, not with sensitive people. But you know, it happens. And then they also Stabler says wilding is back in vogue,

Yeah, it's a reference to the Central Park jogger ca I think because that was called a wilding and that happened in like like ten years earlier than this episode.

But it was like a pretty big thing in New York. Well, I think in the world.

Yeah, because it came up, yeah again in the twenty sixteen you know, elections and stuff like it was kind of exactly.

But I don't know, like, well, we learned a really.

Good lesson, you know, like you don't be in the park after dark and don't be black and alive, so that.

Yeah, exactly.

I was gonna say, like, I know, I'm not saying like a wilding has never happened, but I do think that they were exaggerated by racists and like people that were like any group of boys hanging out together that might not have white skin tone are getting ready to just fully attack people like a pack of animals.

And that's just not factual.

So you know, yeah, not factual at all.

I mean, yeah, they.

Sat, I mean Central Park five, yes, which, yeah, I'm going to touch on it later. I'm not actually covering that today, but yeah, yeah, I.

Think that's one we're avoiding. I would feel like it comes up a lot and we're like later, later, it's coming. It's like William Lewis, it's coming. We're just avoiding it.

Yeah, I think we were avoiding this one, but I'll be I'll do I'll do a coming up. We got a great guess. We had to do it. Yeah, that had to do it. So he stays behind. Stabler stays behind to work the scene. She enters the bus to go to the hospital with the victim, and then Cragan is in full Oh my god, I didn't even write credits. I always write credits in my notes, and I didn't even write them in this. But that is where the credits happen, so I do know scene by scene. So

So, yeah, I am not happy saying it. You're not happy hearing it.

Craigan, Uh yeah, o case he's upset, Okay, Sogan. Craigan's crossing guards everyone, and we end up with Benson and Stable are talking to the park cop and he's defensive as fuck. He's like, my park is safe, and then again it's like, are you sure it's not a wilding and he's like, it's an incident, it's an anomaly. He keeps wagging his fingers. He's not being helpful, and they're

Well, I guess still a city kid, but whatever.

And then the dad answers and goes, ugh, what now, So he knows his kid sucks, and the dad.

Is like totally used to it.

He goes, just call her attorney, hands over the card and Benson's like, easy way or hard way? You want to search warrant. He goes, fine, fine, we'll meet you our attorney's office. So the boy has spikey gel hair, like the some forty one lead singer Crispy and high.

The lawyer, yeah, yeah, that's a rough the one that was married to Avril.

I didn't realize they were married, but yeah, yeah yeah. The lawyer is like, that's just my quintessential hit, Like what would you say, to compare that hair, what comes to mind for you?

No, I that's correct, That is correct. I'm thinking like that's the reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

So the lawyer is like, I mean, or people from my high school, I can name name.

By name, specifically specifically Larry Jones, like his hair was ridiculous.

Yeah.

The lawyers like, why are you harassing my client? And they're like, we hate him. And then they asked where he was early that morning and the dad's like, you're sick.

We heard about that case.

There's no way my son is a poser, like he didn't do this, he wasn't there. And the dad grabs a son's arm and goes, don't you say another word, And the detectives are like, shut up, we want him to talk, and the dad's like, no, he's actually fifteen, so shut the fuck up. Benson's beeper goes off, so we can tell what time this really is. Is this pretty yeah? Pre nine to eleven? Okay, so the beeper is buzzin'.

Also, besides beeper, the word poser was at its peak. I would say at this time, oh really, like, oh my gosh, when I was like, I mean, when I was like in like high school, I feel like poser was like a slur, like it was like the worst thing you could call someone. You're like, I don't know, she's kind of a poser, Like, oh, it was so bad you never wanted to get called that.

No, And so then finally I do love this line so much. The boy says, so we like to look at the ladies, but what happened to that lady?

We're not down with that.

And he does have a librae piercing if you're wondering. He was online till one am and it wasn't him. So Benson's like, okay, we'll keep in touch, and they leave. Basically, the beeper was the lab. It's not what we thought. The victim only had one person's DNA inside of her. She was dumped after she was stabbed because she lost so much blood, but all that blood was not on the scene.

And this Emmy is a blonde woman.

The fibers that we found were white caught and found on the clothes, legs and genitals, and the attack followed the rate by eight hours. And then there's one bloody print on a rock, then on her clothes. There's so much blood and it says Hanford University. So they obviously go down to Hanford and they talk to an admissions office and they're just like searching on a database for women after woman after woman, and they think they find her. Her name is Nafisa Amir and she's twenty three years old.

If that's her.

She you know, if it is, she actually missed class this morning, and she never misses class, so obviously it's her. The professor talks to her all the time, and they do have a bond, it seems like. And a Fisa loves the freedom of the press and it doesn't exist where she's from with the Taliban government. The professor is like, unless she's snuck out of the country, her parents must be here, like women can't just move about freely. And she does know her best friend her her name is

She was loving life.

She wouldn't talk about her boyfriend and it was a way of protecting herself from her father, an Afghan diplomat, and she thought he had been looking for her, so she was a little freaked out and if he had his way, she says, Annett wouldn't even be friends with the FISA. He's a control freak, you know. She wouldn't. She would leave.

With the full robes. She call it the robes.

It's obviously a full as Berka, and then she would leave the house in that.

And at school she changed.

She hated so much that she had to live like that, and she was talking to Professor Husseini who was helping her to adjust, and she kept the clothing in her locker.

So that's the next stop. We go to the locker.

Benson starts going through the bag and they talk about Kathleen and how pissed she would be if she couldn't wear jeans. So they find a photo of a dude and the address is on the east side and it is the home of Salah and Aziza Amir and the mom is only eyes visible Burka. She's sitting in silence on the couch. And the dad, as a matter of fact, he's not sad at all. They're like, she's in the hospital and he's like, is she dead and they go, no,

She love this great life?

So then he says, well, we have a son, Jalil, but she's dead to me, and so now it's a walk and talk. Craigan is really confused about this. He's like, whoa, So it's her fault. She was raped, and Benson goes, yep, she brought shame and dishonor to her family. They be head women for that, he says. So Munch says, my wife dishonored me, and all I have to pay her is alimony. So that's nice, a nice little comedic break. Then Stabler says, look what's in the knapsack? No one

What do we do?

The only way we can contact them is updates on the daughter, or we'll get in big trouble.

Crazy, Why do we have that?

Why is it like you're coming to another country to do business in our country politically, so feel free to just like violate whatever law and do whatever.

I just don't get it. I don't either.

I don't get why we were just like, oh, but you're here on diplomatic business, Like, feel free to gamble, kill someone, do what E's like.

I don't get it.

But if someone is a diplomat, let us know if we have a diplomat listening to this podcasts, I mean, let's.

Call it a day. We did it.

Then Munch looks at the photo of the man and it's the dude from earlier who said he's never heard of her.

Yeah. Yeah, So they go pick him up, all hands on deck.

The walkie talkies are so giant, and then he walks and sees Fin and drops all the groceries. This guy like on the street and he starts running, but Staylor meets him on another side. He crosses a street, stable runs over a taxi, Finn tackles him. Munch arrives and then the guy goes, you will not find her. I will never tell you where she is. You will never find her. Okay, they read him his rights, they stuff

And it's like, yeah, you'll never see your family again.

You know, there is that connection, Like I understand why it's so hard where you're like, fuck, like, I'm also leaving my mom behind and you do still have this love and it's it's hard.

I feel for all these kids that.

Yeah, have a hard time letting go even though they know that's not the life they want to live, but it is. It's basically saying you'll never see your family again.

Yeah, but I hate that.

And also, just going back a second, this man needs to You just need to not say to the cops this is my I'm responsible for this, or this is all my faults. Just like, even if you feel the immense weight of guilt because somebody ran out of your fight with you and they got hit by a car, please don't say that to the cops.

They are going to use it as a confession against you. Well yeah, yeah, especially because they already mirandized you.

Bro. Yeah, So he goes, listen, I did overreact. Basically, he dared her to leave like they were fighting, and he's like, fine, then fucking leave. And he never thought she would leave. He loves her so much he wanted to marry her. Craigan tells Munch to go talk to people who heard them fight. So we're talking to a guy who seems to be a super of the building, and he did hear the fight, but it was in their language, which was gibberish to him, and so he

Okay.

He's being charged with one count of attempted murderer and the second degree in one count of rape in the first degree, you know, the drill.

So he's being.

Charged with one count of attempted murder and the second degree and one count of rape in the first degree, and you know the.

Drill remand remand no let him go.

Okay, So the judge puts them in remand and her parents are in the back of the courtroom, and his lawyer runs and tells Cabot like dell Wood wanted me to tell you that that his parents.

Her parents are here, And why are they there? Like they didn't even give a shit if she was dead or not, Like, why are they there? I don't really get it.

Well, I have a theory, but that'll give away some information from later, okay. And also he is willing to do a lie detector test, So they go to the lie detector test and he passes, and Saber's like, so he fooled a box. Who gives a shit in Cabits like, okay, But if he can fool a box, he can fool a jury. So and then she has a wild idea maybe he's telling the truth. Who would a thunk give? So they're like, well, who else knew about this relationship?

Sad sad Mac.

Oh my gosh, that's what he was in Sex and the City.

Oh yeah, you got sad maced Oh my god, yes, yes.

I also can Apple please bring back the colorful laptops?

Like why won't they do it?

Nostalgia is in that's all we want, Like like I don't understand why I can't have a fun, little, clear and colorful little laptop.

They gotta figure it out. They just boring.

It's it's silver, black, rose gold, right, that's like all we have right now.

Or they'll be like it's midnight and it's like it's fucking black, shut up, charcoal.

Yeah it's yeah.

I just it's just Nostalgia's so in everybodys does.

It want to go away from.

Like their aesthetic is so clean, it's so sterile, Like they're not just they're just like I know we did have the big colorful Max, but I feel like now their whole thing is just like the headphones are only white, you know, like everything is a mid century modern flat I.

Wonder if you're someone like super rich, famous, maybe a billionaire. I wonder who I'm thinking of, Like, I wonder if you can go to Mac and be like, build me this computer.

Probably yeah, custom.

All right, or even if Mac won't do it, some door will do it for you.

Who know how, Like you know, my friend Crystal just.

Took a part of computer and put it back together for fun, you know, like people can do all kinds of shit.

So it's a walk and talk and basically the professor is saying, and they're like outside in the college campus, and he's like, it's tough to assimilate. There's so many new things, like even leaving the house alone as a woman, she wouldn't be able to do that. And then Benson calls the tally Ben thugs, and I like that. And also he explains that the actually from the old regime, like like there the Taliban happened after they left the country, so that's kind of wild. The Psycho has been in

She says, listen, you confessed.

He goes, no, I didn't, and she's like, I'm responsible for this, and he's like, I feel responsible and not that I attacked her. This is not a therapy session, Cirta. No one cares what your feelings. There's no DNA and the stones, his lawyer says, And she's like, well he was inside her. And he gets up frustrated as he holds the bars in the cement room, and we find out that they fell in love, but they couldn't tell anyone. She didn't want her dad to find out, so they

Nothing.

Munch walks into a dark ass office with the whole gang in Cabot and the final lab report the blood on the stones was an a Fisa, but the other wasn't Tarsi, and the blood is actually really similar to Nafisa, which means it was a family member. The brother, Jalil A Mirr, just turned twenty one, graduated from NYU lucky him, great education. He lives with his parents and he is

Like the diplomat code.

Benson hangs up the phone and announces that unfortunately and Ifisa died ten minutes ago. And we're at a doorman building and the doorman starts spilling as well, and he's like, she was here Tuesday night. He didn't realize it was even her because she wasn't wearing the get up. He never saw her leave. But he gets off at eleven, so maybe the night guy. But the brother did come out, and so the and then he's like, oh, that bastard treats me like his personal slave. He asked me to

I just I hate the brass. Okay.

So Craigan is yelling at Stabler for the write up, like I need the rite up hurriyap.

Type faster.

Because the commissioner's pissed because the dad says he was harassed and Benson's like, we did not fucking harass him, and Stabler says, well, back home he would have been a fucking hero because of this. And so now we're in the judge's chambers and they're arguing about if the confession stays in. The judge says yes, an excited utterance with a plane of look like a planeload of witnesses is in and this is a thick must stash judge, if you're wondering, And he's been in eighteen episodes of

It's so fucking annoying.

Also, I love that you're admitting your religion as a disease, you know, like that's pretty.

Amazing, or just that they're ready for it. They don't even take a second.

They're just like, oh, so that's out mental disease, you know, like you were ready for him to just be not get like have that confession thrown out.

Yeah, And so he didn't know what he was doing. Killing his you know, killing his sister was wrong.

He didn't get in.

Cabots like, ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense. And the defense says he told the cops he was proud of what he did.

Does that sound sane to you? And Cabot says, this is bullshit.

Judge goes, listen, let's have a psychiatric evaluation.

So we're at Rikers and it's JK.

Simmons baby, and he's going to talk to this monster in a jumpsuit, and this guy compares himself to Abraham.

It's like, oh my god, you're all sick.

He sighs and says, I can't talk about this, and JK. Simmons pushes him, can't or won't. He starts talking about nightmares. He started having it eight years old because his grandfather slit his aunt's throat and his father made him watch very Richard Ramirez she cheated on her husband. And he's just following the rules. And Simmons is telling Cabot in the office late at night that he saw this as a rite of passage to manhood, to honor.

But JK. Simmons thinks that he knows what he did was wrong.

And Cabot's worried that the jury like might not see it and that they're gonna get confused, and Simmons goes, We'll get a fucking jury together that's not gonna be confused. So we're at jury selection and it's not going well. Cabot asks to approach the bench and basically the defense is dismissing anyone that is a woman or a Jew, so I guess we would not be on that jury's double. And he's like, you can't stack. You can't let her

So I'm really really happy.

So now we're at trial and it's Munch is on the stand and the parents are in the stands.

Munch explained that.

This motherfucker got up, smiled, confessed he was proud of what he did, and he thought that she deserved to die. Cabot sits down, and now it's the defense's turn and he's like, since he was so proud and smiling, does it I mean like that he's not sane and there's an objection he's not a doctor. And then he asked how many people have smiled at you as you arrest them? And Munch goes one and Munch isn't happy to give him this information.

Now JK.

Simmons is on the stand and he explains that this Julias shows signs of severe trauma, night terror and night terrors, but they do not make him not understand the difference between right or wrong. So the defense is trying to compare this to a home invasion, and basically they're saying, even like, if murder is morally wrong, if someone like breaks into your home, you get to kill someone to

Does that sound honorable to you? He starts stuttering.

He accuses her of twisting what he's saying, and the other guy tries to subject, but Cabot keeps going and goes, you keep looking at your dad to tell him what to do? Does he tell you what to do? Did your dad tell you what to do? And then you know, object but that objection does get sustained. We can whatever,

What do we do?

And Sailor says, it's not about culture, it's about the father. Everyone is scared of the father, and Benson says, except for one person, Miss is a mirror and they're like, she's not gonna give up her son or go against her husband, and Benson goes, she already has.

She told us he was on the plane.

So Finn says, if she testifies, she sentencing herself to death and he is the reason her daughter is dead and she wants justice for her memory. Benson argues, and Finn is like, we can't ask her to do this unless we're ready to protect her. Craigan says, we are ready twenty four to seven, but please do not cross any diplomatic lines. Benson is talking to the mom and Stabler as standing further back in the room. The mom is like, I already lost my daughter and I don't

It is wild, and he goes.

We can protect you, and she goes, I don't want your protection. I want my daughter, She cries, This is so sad, but she is on the stand now. Fisa came home to be with us. My husband asked her if she was still a virgin, and she wasn't. I don't understand why she wouldn't lie.

I don't know. Yeah, like you know, your dad's a psychopath.

Yeah, maybe she thought if I say that I've slept with this man, they'll let me marry this man because he is still part of the culture.

But he's just not a person that she was promised to. I don't know. I don't know why she didn't just lie.

Yeah, but or like if she wasn't, that means she couldn't be married off, Like you're right, maybe that would be her ticket to freedom.

Like if they can't do that, I don't know. So he hit her.

She fell, and while she talks, the dad just looks forward with an expression just shark guys, straight ahead, and you know, on the stand, she continues. When Juliel tried to help her, the husband said, let her lie there,

So I just don't get why right after her testimony they would have arrested him.

Why was he allowed to leave? Like what you know what I mean? Like she just testified that he was.

Uh, Like like, I wonder if it's diplomat shit.

Again, I don't know.

Because he was a full accessory to a murder, like to say, do it?

Do it right?

Like people have been put to death for less. Like Okay, I just google quickly. Why are diplomats given immunity? This immunity ensures that diplomats are able to conduct their duties and activities efficiently without being subject to oppression or reprisal from any entity in.

The receiving state.

Oh like that you like you can't frame them for anything, or like if your enemies or a contrary.

Because you could invite somebody over. Yeah, I guess you could invite someone to your country and then like fully throw them in jail.

Well yeah, it's The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which most countries have ratified, offers diplomats acting as officials of state almost total protection from subjectal subjection to criminal, administrative, and civil laws belonging to the country in which the diplomatic mission is located. I just don't understand why, like rape and murder can't be exempt they I.

Yeah, that feels wild. It says what happened.

I mean, these are just like basic Google stuff, So I'm sorry, but what happens if the diplomat commits a crime? However, this is not universal, and diplomats have been processed, get it, and jailed for crimes committed outside the country they're credited to. But diplomats are exempt from being prosecuted by the state and open court when they're suspected to be the guilty of a car crime. I mean, we'll have to go dig deeper into this because it is interesting. Yeah, all right,

And at first when.

They find the victim in this episode, they do bring up wild things like I touched on before, and that is a reference to the case of Trisha Maylee aka the Central Park jogger and what became known as the Central Park five case. But there is another sbu more closely related to that, so we will cover that another time.

Or for being a of sexual assault.

We have seen that in other episodes, the episode Night that we cover at our live shows. Sometimes there is a woman who in the Muslim faith, whose brother you know, is not he beats the shit out of Diane Neal because he exposed that his sister had been sexually assaulted.

You know?

Like and Julia in this case was twenty one, but had just been on the other side of his immunity protection. So according to the World Health Organization in twenty twelve, it was estimated that around five thousand murders occur each year worldwide in the name of honor, but I could not find a more recent statistic about that they are.

While I'm also curious if this is like ancient stuff or if this is Taliban stuff that like came in after revolution, you know, like I do wonder if says, oh, well, we used to do it thousands of years ago, or because you know, so much of the stuff going on there was not happening in the seventies, you know, like women wearing mini skirts. So I am so curious if this is ancient or just some new, fucked up rewording of things.

I do think it goes back, but you know, like, but then there's always there's modernity, and then there's cycles where things sway back to the ancient again. You know, people are like, that's not you know, what we were meant to be doing. So I do think it goes back. But you know, this journalist like risked her fucking life. She totally knew that she was going to be a target. She wrote all these reports about about honor killings, launched

I have two wives.

His religious beliefs told him that that was none of her business and he would tell her when she needed to know. She was pretty upset by that. But what can she do. She's married and she's pregnant. So they move all around with these children, either in North Carolina, Jersey, Puerto Rico, back to Brazil. In nineteen eighty Zion became a naturalized US citizen, and in nineteen eighty six they came to Saint Louis, where the father started like owning

And she is the only daughter at home at this point.

At one point, the mother and the sisters, Tina went to prom, and the mother and the sisters went and like tracked her down and like pulled her out of the prom and she was crying.

It was like a very you know.

I remember like hearing about kids randomly in high school that like weren't allowed to go to dances, and like I read, I remember someone's parents showing up and being like, you're not allowed to be at this dance, but I can't remember who it was.

And I just remember one friend and she was a Syrian but her mom did not want her on our basketball team. So she played for two years but then told to get out, was not allowed to She would work at the bank and then we would go visit her because that was the only way we could hang out because she came from such a strict family, so we would go to the bank to.

Talk to her.

Oh my gosh, that's what.

But then she said, but she was allowed to hang out with people from church, and like some of those girls are whores, you know what I mean, like the idea that the church girls were the good girls. And so she would hang out with this one girl who was like really I just remember she was just like really pretty and awesome. But so they would go hang out and the mom was like, oh, well, she's from church, but really they were out there making out.

Totally. Yeah, church girls.

But I didn't go to dances, but that's because I was at the movies every Friday with my parents.

So I think they would have loved for me to go to a dance. Dude, did did they did? You just didn't act. You were like, I'd rather go to the movie.

We just went to the movies every Friday for at least, so.

If anything came up on a Friday, you were like, can't go into the movies.

I didn't even think about it. I knew the dances were happening. But I had plans, right, I got plans.

Because after the movie, I'm going to see a movie that's probably wildly agent appropriate for me. Yeah, because after the movies, we would then hit up TJ Max Amazing Savings.

We'd go to Dominix, which is like the grocery store. Yeah, I'd get some briers. Listen, we had this.

This is a full Friday night. We have a traditions.

You know.

I had to do Rosie's heritage project with her. I can see what your heritage project would be showing the Friday night. Wait, I want to see the heritage project. Oh girl, you're gonna be embarrassed for us. It's just like whiteness everywhere. But I will take there is a picture of the kids with the manora, and I will take uh photo of it and send it to you.

Okay, dare have it.

But here's the thing about Tina. She's also an honor student. Okay, she moved there at fourteen and was like learning English. But she's doing so good in school, Like she's I don't know the fact that like we just can't see like these women as like fully formed people. She's a smart person. But it's like, no, she's just like a

Well in school.

And then her parents found out that she had been in a relationship with an African American guy named Cliff Walker. He was twenty, she was sixteen, and they were furious, not only because he is outside of their faith, but also the father was extremely racist against black people because he thought that Palestinian business owners in.

The US were being targeted by black criminals. That was his thought.

So what's wild, too, is the women in the family were not permitted to date outside their faith, even though the father is Muslim and the mother is Roman Catholic. So what you know this the hypocrisy abounds. Obviously, they were also furious that she was taking a job at Wendy's. They had said she wasn't allowed to. It's like it's unclear whether she told them that she actually.

Took the job.

And because they the only job she was permitted to take was to be working at the family grocery store. So apparently her father was making calls to other family members, also complaining about how she was bringing shame to the family and that she had to die. All this stuff. There is a book called Guarding the Secrets written by Ellen Harris, and it's a book completely about the murder, and in it she wrote that quote the problem was that Tina thought of herself as American or hyphenated American,

Hold on, hold on, I don't understand how this Brazilian Catholic woman became so radicalized in this way to hold her daughter down.

She did, She just did. Like this man, I don't know, I don't know. I would have it that the.

Religion has to be an excuse for the murderous race, like this is a psychopath that could have found.

Any reason to murder.

Like there's no way. I'm like, I'm devastated right now. I know it's the most horrible. But here's what's wild.

The reason we know all the detailed conversation that they had right before she died, the reason I can quote exactly what was said before they died, is because her father's Zion at the time of her murder was under investigation by the FBI because they thought he was involved in illegal activities on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization the PLO. So the home was bugged and audio of the entire murder was recorded.

There is a tape of the killing.

It is seven minutes long, and on it you can hear her father, who after he murdered her, shouting in Arabic to her die quickly, die quickly in response to his daughter, like pleading for her life and she's begging her mother to help her.

It's like, it's horrific, It's horrific.

He also admitted on the stand at his trial that he put his foot on his daughter's mouth to quiet her while she was dying.

The mother did not testify.

It is also unclear whether the FBI could have prevented the killing, because the FBI refuses to discuss the tapes. They just kind of handed them over to prosecutors. But you know, the FBI has all this protection and they can do it the fuck they want. But apparently he had been having many conversations with his older daughters that were begging him to discipline Tina, and they overheard him talking to his daughter Soriyah, who was twenty four at

And it's like, yeah, I'm.

Sure this honor student coming home from her job at midnight just decided to grab a knife and ask for five k. Like the story does not work. Tina Issa was buried at Sacred Heart Cemetery and Flora sent Missouri, where her family gave no notice of the funeral, specifically so that the boyfriend could not attend.

She was buried in a wedding dress.

And also not that it matters, but the boyfriend says they never slept together, so it's like they just murdered her for no not that there was a reason, even if they did, but even in their minds, their reason was incorrect. On October twenty fifth of nineteen ninety one, they were convicted of first degree murder. The jury deliberated for less than four hours. On December twentieth, they were sentenced to death by lethal injection. They did not give

End quote.

So when you ask how she's like radicalized, I mean she's just absolutely radicalized, Like no remorse after sitting in jail for two years waiting trial, and now you're going to like, the jury has convicted you, and you're just still like so brainwashed that what you did was correct and in line with your faith. The judge, Judge Charles A. Shaw, said, quote, culture is no excuse for murder. I see no reason

So they are both gone from this earth.

My thing is like, why come to America? Then, Like you're saying everything here is terrible, yet you're coming here, go like go live somewhere else.

Well, yeah, it's the thing. They had moved all they had moved from America. They'd been in I mean, well Puerto Rico was part of the States, but like they'd been in Brazil, Like she had family in Brazil. That's where they met the parents. It's like, go go somewhere else if you think that this culture. But I think they would have so different. So I don't mean to not even compare the two.

But my mom and I Kumil's movie The Big Sick. There's like a scene where he's arguing with his parents, and my mom I remember talking about it after she saw the movie, because he tells his parents like you moved to this kind like let me live as an like let me live here.

You moved here for my freedom, right, let me be free?

Like why do you want me to still do arranged marriage and do this old school shit like let me live? And I just remember that, Like, you know, my parents have always they knew they didn't have a chance. But and this is different. I think this is sociopath Like these are psychopath lers. If it wasn't her, they would have killed someone. Like I just don't feel like it, like the judge said, culture is no excuse for murder.

I don't know.

And since, honestly, since this episode came out, there's been a couple of other like high profile ones, like there was a girl that was her dad ran her over with a car and killed her, Like you know, there's there have been a few others in the States.

You know.

That's why I feel even strange bringing up the Big Sick because it is just like a comedy, you know, it is.

No no, but this is a moment and that is all of it. Moment in the about what we're talking about. Why from these the.

Whole idea as like an immigrant is you come to America for freedoms that you do not have where you are. Yeah, So then I don't understand why you would continue to not give the freedom to your kids.

Yeah, I don't know.

And I'm not saying throw away your culture and belief certain everything, but it is confusing to me.

Yeah, And I mean, honestly, the Wikipedia page on honor killings at the bottom just has like two dozen victims of those are just notable cases, you know, those are usually people that were living in places like where it would be you know, not as common, and so like media attention was brought to it, but I don't know, it's uh yeah.

And I'm also curious what portion of like the population of these countries adheres to this and how much of it is well this is pre nine to eleven, but like how much of this is.

Stirred up by Islamophobia?

Like I have no idea, Like I think about this with general mutilation like too, but I but they're both.

Even if it's a small amount, it's a bad thing.

Yeah, yeah, But I'm curious do we take honor killings to be scared of brown people, like, oh, look at them, they're backwards or is it like you said, a few doesen't you know? Like like I just don't and I just don't know how You're like living in a country and then all of a sudden, the tally but like the government changes and suddenly you're in a burka, Like

Next day, you can't, you'll be prosecuted, So I you know, does it happen?

So I just it's it's just too big, honestly for me to even be It makes me so sad.

Yeah, yeah, this is a really sad like this like was a girl who was also.

Just thinking about her, like thinking about her as her mom holds you down and your dad is stabbing you.

And that like and that they just never could even show remort like that is like so like that when you were talking about like being sociopaths. It's like they couldn't even later say we were caught up and you know we've had time to think about our actions.

Our daughter is dead. No there's no remorse. Well that's also probably self preservation too.

Yeah.

Yeah, this one is fucked.

But I will say we have an amazing guest that's going to really bring this back, this whole episode, because we had an amazing conversation with this actor.

So stay right there, okay, our.

Guests today, I'll get a get for both of us. We are we're so excited to get him. He is a prolific actor. He was a Daily show correspondent for a decade and he is also a main cast member on a show that my husband and I are obsessed with called Evil, which you can catch the new season coming out very soon on Paramount Plus, and past seasons are on Paramount Plus as well as Netflix. He's been on every major TV show, including for us a very special. He was the sad Mac computer guy on Sex and

Thank you so much for being here. We're excited to have.

You to talk about a show from two thousand.

Yes, to talk about a show you did over twenty years twenty four years ago.

Which I'm sure you have a crystal clear memory of and we are here to explore that.

You know. It's yeah, Surprisingly, I do have a very clear memory of it. I don't I haven't watched. I haven't watched the episode.

And it's a hard one to watch. It's a sad one.

A hard is it a sad one? I seem to where it's a sad one.

It's one that I it took me forever to rewatch because I just knew that I was going to be so sad.

I do remember that. I remember that I had a go tea. I remember I had a go tea in it and I spoke with an accent. And do you remember that I did. I do remember that. But you know I did so many law and orders.

Yes, you've been on four.

We talked to a lot of people that have done the three, like the Holy Trinity of like original recipe, SVU, criminal Intent. But you've also done trial by jury, which was short lived. So for you to be a a quattro is pretty impressive.

And I went from and I went from you know, starting off as a hot dog vendor all the way to trial by jury, which is the last one I did. When I was the judge, I was I felt like, I feel like I made my parents proud.

You know, you were a judge. That's a judge.

I was a young Indian conservative judge at the time. This was you know, pre Bobby Jindall, so, uh, it was it was pre Nikki Haley, you know. So it was sort of like, what is that a thing? And now I'm like, oh, that's a thing, that's a real thing. Yeah. Pre vivek Ramaswami, you know, yes, he was. He was sort of vivek ramaswami ish a little bit.

I don't know who that is.

I don't know who that is.

He's the guy that just ran for president. I'm sure you've seen him on your Instagram. He was like conservative conservative, like loves Trump and Elon.

Conservative has has this has a sort of like uh a hairdo that sort of starts like at the very top of his head and then just keeps going up kind of thing.

And young people are like young Republicans are like, we're gonna go for him because he knows how to use social media because he's like, I think, only in his thirties or forties or something.

He's like, uh, he's yeah, he's it's just new Google and you'll see.

No, I was gonna say.

Scrolling through your IMDb, not so much in the Law and Order Universe, but a lot of doctors.

You've played a lot of.

Well look at my face. Yeah, so are you when you have this, when you have this much melanin what happens in Hollywood?

Are you good with all the medical lingo?

Like when you get to set, now you know what I actually uh yeah, it's so funny, Like I literally played I've played so many doctors. I never got into like the but I there was. There was a couple of moments when one time I was a doctor on a soap opera. I forget which one it was. It was maybe it was Young and the Restless or or one of those. And they were just like, we're just going to use your name, and I was like, what do you mean And they were like, we'll just call

You know?

And then they were like, which is gonna do? So in the show, they're just like paging doctor Monvie, paging Doctor Monvie. And I literally was like, oh my god, this is my mother has to watch this. It's gonna be like her dream, you know.

It gets to hear it.

Yeah, So you were killing it in New York because also you're in Sex and the City.

You were in all the hip shows in New York in the city.

That was all the all the hip shows, the ohs, the Law and Orders, the Sex and the Cities, the uh. I was even on New York Undercover. Oh I was. I was on every show that was shooting in New York for a while, you know. I mean that's what you did when you're a young actor in New York, just trying to get your health insurance paid for sure, just do like all the guest spots and stuff on every show that's shooting. And I never went out to LA So it was always working in New York.

You know, do you remember like getting because it, like according to your IMDb like it sort of looks like original recipe. Law in Order, like the Dick Wolf Universe was kind of some of your first jobs. So do you ever being like, oh, it's happening well?

And The Cosby Mysteries.

Was, Oh yeah, I did The Cosby Mysteries. That was a short lived show where Bill Cosby.

Played a criminologist, criminologist the guy who And I, oh yeah, I like what I mean.

I loved Bill Cosby's stuff.

You know what's crazy about that is like now everything we know about Bill Cosby. You know. It was like he asked, so I was doing the scene with him. I don't know, we're talking about Lawn Order, but we can talk about this he was, He said to me, I was playing his cab driver. There you go. That was another round. That was another part that I did a lot a ken the face, right, so doctors and

Truly a knew definition of home box office, Like.

He was literally fitting it like a homebox Yes. I was like, holy shit, like you can do that, Like when you're that famous, you could do that.

What has been the coolest flex that you've been able to do? Or like a moment where you've used your success to get out?

You know what, Whenever I try to flex, it just backfires. Like I never I stopped trying to flex. I mean I used to do the whole like I'm on a TV show, you know, like I'm I tried to one time. I think I tried to. Uh, there was a there was a birthday party at some fancy schmancy like hotel here in New York where you had to like, you know, try to get in and and I had brought a cupcakes and they wouldn't let me bring the cupcakes in. This is so stupid, and I don't let me bring

Yeah, I feel like we need to get a little bit back to the to the to the SVU of it, even though we have other things we want to talk to you about. I wanted to know because I ran across this clip of you PBS talking about being asked to do accents by casting directors, and like, I was just wondering, because you do that in this episode.

But at the time that.

You did this episode, it was like what it was two thousand, so I don't know, were you still like, oh, yeah, I'm down to do any accent, But do you do that today?

Like what you know, what's your what's your feeling on that now?

It was always it was always the feeling of like, you know, you go in and my friends Sukina Jeoffrey and I came up well, she came up with it, and then I sort of started using it. And another bit, which was this term called p tanking, which was like basically it's the sound of the Indian accent to the non Indian ear. And it basically is like protank, protect, protect, protect, protect,

And so it's so wild if they made you, like what if John Oliver is just faking that accent?

I know. I hate to tell you. I hate to tell you no. I used to that was a joke of mine. You know, they'd be like, can you do an accent? I'd be like, yeah, I can do Irish, I can do Scottish. Which one do you want? I can do London?

Do you have any like? I know, it was like twenty four years ago.

Do you have any like memories of being on this college campus and doing this walking down?

Yeah, I do so hard. It was all those stairs.

It was filmed up filmed up at Columbia. Yeah, it was filmed up at Columbia on the campus up there. And then I was in, you know, I had had my My my memory of it is that I had been on Law and Order a couple of years before, and I had a really very sort of traumatic experience because I for whatever reason that day and this was not normal for me. I had this huge I was

And then the coddling. I feel like then they like coddle you a little extra, and then you feel like.

You feel like all eyes are on you, and so.

Now paying attention, Yeah, this is the actor's recurring nightmare.

What you're describing?

Yeah, yeah, then I'm sitting in the witness stand, So it's it's also physically kind of all the folks it boxed in and the focus on me, and so I was having and my count is supposed to be nervous, so it played well because I was genuinely nervous, but I was having a really hard time. But then so when I got this gig for this episode, I was so relieved that they were they hired me again because I was like, they're never gonna got it.

You were so prepared.

I was so prepared on this one. I was like, I want them to know that I know my shit, you know what I mean? Like, so I showed up like super prepared, and so I just remember doing the scene with Murska Hargate and Christopher Maloney and just like the whole time like I'm doing the lines, but I'm in my head, I'm just like nailing it. I'm nailing it good.

And it's tough because there was a walking talk and those are.

The walking talk and those are hard. You know. Yeah, then you.

Haven't had to go back into the stand, so you must have been really having the memories come back there too.

Yeah. I was having all that. So that episode actually was kind of just reaffirmed to me that like, oh, Okay, I know what I'm doing. Yeah, don't you know?

Well you said you didn't, you said you didn't watch the episode, but like you know, you do you get like the general plot of it is like this girl has been killed by her brother and it's sort of like an honor killing, and your role is to sort

I mean, look, I.

Think that I think that that at that time, as a young brown actor, there was always a kind of reductiveness, you know, whether it was your Indian ness or your muslimness or whatever, there was a kind of reductiveness to turn it into.

Like you know TV drama. You know, so Muslims were sort of portrayed, as you know, and this was before nine to eleven, you know, and you know, as you know, Americans discovered Islam after nine to eleven, so you know, and so then things became you know, then you had shows like twenty four and other shows which were really exploiting that kind of Islamophobia that then. So this was sort of pre the prevailing Islamophobia that existed after nine

I feel like we have to let you go soon, but I really we cannot leave let you go without talking about evil because I am, yes, I am an evil head. My husband and I I don't like horror stuff that much. My HU was like, watch this show with me, and did it come out during the pandemic. I think we started watching it more in the pandemic.

It came out, It came out prior to the pandemic. It came out actually in twenty nineteen was the first season, and then and then twenty two and then we took a break and it was you know, there was Yeah.

Well, co star Michael Emerson plays a real freak in one episode of US.

Oh yes, well he's been around, It's been around for a long time. He's so great, you know, a bad guy. He's one of my favorite actors.

And by the way, he did say he would do our podcast. We've been having a hard time de nailing him down. So if you see him on a press see him press, tell him we're cool, but tell me about like the doing Evil and like the final season.

I'm we're devastated. It's the final season.

My husband and I he says, you're My husband says you're his favorite character.

On Evil because you really are. For people that don't watch Evil, start watching Evil.

But you are a little bit of like the comic relief, Like you know, you're sort of this team of people that investigate, you know, religiously paranormal happenings, but you're kind.

Of like the skeptic.

That's like, I know, I can explain why this happened in like a technological way, like you're.

The tech guy. Yeah, right, exactly, I'm describing it correctly.

Yeah, that's totally right. And I think, you know, I'm the the tech guy. I'm sort of like a little bit like of a macguy vertype character, like I can sort of do everything. You know, it's very unlike me in real life. But he's great. I love Ben and just talking about you know, the idea of like Ben was originally written as a white guy. He wasn't written as an Indian guy or a South Asian character at all.

It's been great.

You know, I've had like a real character who like has a life and is multi dimensional, and so he's been great. And also like just to play with the Kings and they're such good writers and get to do all this kind of horror stuff, which is a genre that I had never really done before, you know, and to play with monsters.

Yeah, it's really great when your character, when your character gets scared, it's really fun to watch because you're always like, I can explain what this is. But then there's some episodes where you get really freaked the fuck out and it's so.

Fun to It's kind of great when Ben is like comes up against like, I can't explain this now, like you know, because he thinks he's always certain. He's so in a certainty about like I can explain stuff, and then when he can't, it's really kind of great because you see the whole thing like, well, what the you know.

And Christine Lottie, Oh, she's so good.

It is.

She's an sv girl. She's so good in it.

And Andrew and Martin.

It's like, truly, I think I might become an evil head you had intrigued.

It's so good on our Paramount Plus when you log in, you know, like my kid's icon is Paw Patrol. Our icon the adult is Andrew Martin as the nun and Evil. Oh yes, that's how we log into our Paramount Plus.

Like we love that he is so great. And I know Andrew because I did Oklahoma with her in two thousand and two on Broadway like years ago. So I worked with Andrew Martin back in the day. And then to have her come back and Young Evil has been such a treat, you know, and we get we get such great guest stars. Yeah, well like some amazing people. Yeah, come in and out, you know, and uh, it's been great.

What a career did Yeah? Do you have anything?

Do you broad still going?

I'm still going yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

Else you want our listeners to keep an eye out for beside the final season of Evil that's coming out on Paramount Plus.

I mean there's nothing like right now, I'm actually getting ready to do a play this fall. Uh in l A at the The Deaf Playhouse with Rain Wilson. Do you are you in l great? So? Uh Yeah, it's called Waiting for Goodell.

Reading for Good And I mean, who hasn't read that?

Right? Well?

I haven't.

Well, I mean like when you when you're a theater major, you like have to reader.

Go go slowgo Vivekramswami. Then you're waiting for good.

Oh my gosh, thank you so so much us if this was so fun, this is gonna be a great palate cleanser for our episode after Yeah, we talk about you know, honor killings and you know.

People, thank you.

Obsessed with him, I mean for such a sad episode, I just feel like, no better guests, no better guest. It was a joy to speak to him. I'm like, yeah, I was taken away. Well, he was so interesting in so many different ways, and like he just had so much to say.

And I don't know if that's like.

The comedian element of him or what, but he just we didn't have to drag anything out of him, and it's just like interesting, amazing. Not that an other guests aren't great, but he is my number one guest at this point. Sorry, and of course Lou Diamond Phillips, It's awesome.

Lou Diamon.

Yeah, he was so fun to talk to and uh love love smart a variety of topics.

Yeah.

Nice, But well, I'm sorry. So I do have a soul Cycle thing. So there's a comedian I was chatting with him. He likes soul Cycle as well, but he has a big issue with them because they don't He took off his shirt once and he was scolded and they said, sorry, shirts on nipples covered, and you know, the mesh didn't field good. Like we kept kind of I was like, maybe you could take a shirt and

Like if I had to wear a shirt, I would be miserable.

It is so hot in there. I do not want to wear a shirt. So I understand a man not wanting to wear a shirt. So I keep sending him like different nipple covers and like different kind of like obviously super homoerotic, like little garter nipple cover sports bras that are gender neutral, and I'm just trying to find him a way to cover nipples and still be able to cycle. But I also maybe with the so I just I know that I wouldn't want to wear a shirt.

Yes, no, me neither. I mean I wear like wicking tank tops that are you know whatever. But but it's interesting because it's like, I guess, if they say a man can take a shirt off, then can a woman take their shirt off?

Because that's only fair to me for sure.

But your titties bounce, Like if you are a woman who I need to be titties out at soul cycle, you are a full maniac.

Yeah, you are a maniac.

There's so much up and down, like I just can't even imagine. But if anyone has any you know, tiny little nipple cover things to do? Yeah, oh wait, did I get tell you? I got tickets to Broadway? Oh Mary.

So I had breakfast with my friend yesterday and she was like, well, if you could extend your trip, I'm going tomorrow and I think my husband's probably gonna bail on me for work, and.

I'm well, it's off right here. Well it's gonna be on Broadway.

Yes, tickets for the last of the current run. And then I tried, but it.

Was wild because I was sitting with a few friends and I was like, fuck, I'm not gonna be able to see it off Broadway. I bet it'll be on Broadway. I just have to be patient. Then next morning I woke up tickets were available.

You are incredible. I want to go so badly.

I want to go, But also my sister's fucking going, like everyone's going, I'm dying. Anyway, everybody goes see Cola Scola.

In O Mary. We're not being paid to say that.

No, but it's a twelve week It's a twelve week run starting towards the end of June. I believe, so your August trip could coincide with certain Broadway days.

Oh that's a good call. I didn't know it was so long. It's a twelve week run. I thought it went until late July. So I was like, oh, I'm not gonna make Maybe it's eight week, but I really think it's a twelve week round. No, okay, I'm googling it right after we get off here. Okay, all right, post morning. For this episode, we did a fucking episode called girl Dishonored and then an episode called I Mean Tough subject matter In both episodes.

Uh yeah, is that what we've been doing just talking about nipple covers and soul cycle to please not talk about honor killings and the sadness that brings us.

So that we don't have to like do a roundup of what we talked about today.

Yeah, the dead displayed out mother, No one could have helped her. I I mean, but at that point, do you even want to live? No, no offense should want to live. You'll get through it, but.

It's just.

Yeah, it's it's so tough. I mean, what my mars are made out of. And that's the whole thing of

I mean, it's or or you're you've been a tact I mean, like it's not even about your wants all the time. It's just like you represent the honor of your family, whether you like it or not, and whatever happens to you, or choices you make or not, or choices you don't make, it all reflects just back on your family. You're just a mirror for your family. And that's it. Like you don't really exist as your own person in a lot of ways, at least in the I think in the types of families that would you know,

And the Catholic I mean, it's it's it's maniacs hiding behind some sort of tradition, religion or not. I put it, it's not like that dad in the show was a killer. This way was a fucking cold blooded killer in the real case, like they all are you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, these are killers.

And the dad just in the episode just got away off he goes fucked. Anyway, let's make this a quick one. I can't to do good.

Cabot killed it in the courtroom, and so did the professor. So that was like some cool moments.

Yes, yeah, And I do feel like, as I said, like the first time I ever heard about this kind of thing was on this show. Like, so I do think this show like is what like always is trying to bring.

They don't always hit them all.

I've been holding the microphone while looking at my microphone stand for this whole time. I cannot believe I just didn't put it in this hole. But next I cannot believe it. It does look like I'm holding an oscar? Did you hear that? Kate Winslet keeps the oscar in her bathroom so people can do acceptance speech the bathroom in the mirror that feeling self conscious.

I love that.

And she says she can tell who does it because they come out with their face a little flushed or like it takes extra long to get out after they flush. But I think that's cool because who wouldn't want to hold an oscar into.

A little speech? I love it.

I love it, And I'm sure she has a cleaning person that comes probably twice a week at least.

I mean, she's wealthy.

I'm sure those oscars are getting wiped down on the regular for sure. Yeah, no fingerprints on those babies. But yeah, all I was gonna say was like this show like told me what even the concept of honor killing was Like.

Let's move on to what would Sister Peg Do?

What was Ster Peg Do was our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization, a book, a blog and articles something to give you more info about what.

We talked about today.

And for this week, our episode obviously focuses on a victim who is originally from Palestine, and we've been following the conflict in Palestine for the last few months and we've been really really impressed by all the work that's been done by World Central Kitchen, founded by chef Jose Andres in twenty ten. World Central Kitchen's mission is to provide fresh meals in response to humanitarian, climate and community crises. Andre says, quote, when people are hungry, send in cooks,

And next week we'll be doing the episode Resilience from season four, episode ten.

We'll see you then. We are so grateful for all of you for listening and until next time. Bye.

That's messed up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

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Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.

Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to.

Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.

Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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