Glasgowman's Wrath w/ Chloe Csengery

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.

Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

This is my co host Kara Klank.

And this is my co host Lisa Trigger. We're still doing this Freaky Friday intros.

Yeah, one of my favorite movie tropes. In this podcast, we talk about an episode of Law and Order s view the True Crivates based on and then we have a special guest from the episode because we're cool and important.

So that's that so cool and important that we are recording today from different hosts.

Is in New York again a jet setter. I'm in New York.

I'm in my friend's closet slash Peloton room, and there is a Route Paul ride and I will be riding this week.

And I cannot wait.

That guy Cody does it right, doesn't he love RuPaul?

Yeah?

I just cannot wait to bounce around to Rutpaul songs.

I actually can't wait.

I don't know if I'm going to survive this New York trip. I've already just taken shots of something called rum fire, and on the bottle it says overproofed.

So I don't know what that happens. I don't either, but it burned. She also sent me an email last night.

You sent me an email last night, though it was like long, with all these notes, and then at the bottom it was like, I am realizing that I'm kind of drunk right now.

So I forgot I sent that email till you just said it.

I remember.

No, I've been opening my phone and seeing photos. I mean, I feel like I'm in college again. Honestly, it's like I'm vaxed. I'm on the subway. I'm giving Yeah, I'm giving people.

In the streets money. I don't care. No, it's exciting. I'm going in August and I can't wait to get back to New York. No, I want to move back. It's not good. You're just saving back, not right away, but just let's be rich. I know.

It's just that's the thing with That's the thing though. You go back to New York and it's like Stockholm syndrome. You forget about all the bad stuff. You go back and you have these honeymoon periods where you're like, oh, especially right now it's like springtime in New York, like oh my god, it's magic, Like of course.

You are magic, and I was here.

I'd like to say, I'm filming my friend Sam Jay's new.

HBO Max show. Oh yeah, that comes.

That came out on the twenty first, so that was the premiere episode. I don't know what episode I'm in, but check it out because there I'm doing something perverted. So oh wow, stay tuned, so excited to watch it. Yeah, I'm doing some really wild things on this show, and I think it's going to be an amazing show.

So check out Sam Jay.

It's called pause with Sam Jay, right yeah, yeah.

Pa usc not pause like pause up for No one thought pause for Lady Gaga. Nobody thought that.

But she's amazing and it was an incredible set and I got.

To see a lot of friends and it was nice to work again.

You know, another show I want to mention I'm not in at all, but I think you guys might be interested. I watched all of Shrill, and the guy who plays ed Kemper and Mindhunter is like a love interest of eighty on Shrill, So that was like exciting and his voice is the same, and I'm like, wait, aren't you a murderer scared person?

And he's like kind of nice guy, a good guy that lives in Portland. Yeah, that's fun. Oh yeah, I'm like dying. I gotta get to SHRILL.

Well, once I start my nighttime routines with a new baby, I'll be watching SHRILL.

Wait, I need to tell you about this.

So I think you just heard about this, but we've been getting like a thousand DMS.

Everyone is telling us.

We tweeted this, of course, but everyone is talking about this little girl in Florida.

Who defended her elf.

She not only escaped to kidnapping attempt, but she was able to basically brand her attacker with blue slime so that when the police caught him, they I could positively identify that this was the guy who did it because she watches SVU. She's eleven years old and she's been watching SVU for a long time. So all you moms that follow us and her or daughters that follow us and have said I started watching SVU way too young.

I don't think it was young enough.

Like we are seeing SVU in these streets saving lives and I'm loving it.

Yeah, and Marishka, I guess reached out to her and she's going to get an SVU award because she did it.

I mean, let her have a little walk on part. Let her find a body.

Come on, where is the body? Also, you probably haven't seen this yet because you are a busy bee. But I was on Instagram, Sarah Jessica Parker did just post there is going to be a hocus Pocus too coming out twenty twenty two.

Aready knew about that? You did?

Yeah, but I wasn't allow to tell anyone because I know I my friend was approached to write it and didn't.

But wow, you kept it a secret, you dumb it. I you know what you know?

At least it wasn't even me keeping a secret. It's like I knew and I just forgot. I just forgot to tell you. I should have told you, and I just I filed it away because she was like, please don't say anything, and then I was like, oh, maybe it won't happen, you know, and then here we go, it's happening.

Wow, all right?

Well twenty twenty two, Oh my gosh, Liza, the countdown is on the countdown is on Baby.

That's amazing. I'm glad they got all three of them back on board. It's like, what the Sex and the City reboot? You know my thoughts.

I'm having a really hard time getting on board without Samantha.

Oh but they just hired someone for a Sex and the City from Grey's Anatomy, Sarah Romirez or something like.

That, Sara Ramirez.

Yeah, she got care to be the Samantha. I don't know if she's the Samantha. She's probably going to be a gay character, but she will be a new friend. I don't think she's gonna put on a blonde wig and pretend she's also an svulum.

Oh my god.

Can you imagine if they just like cast someone as Samantha. I meant, like as the Samantha, as like the you know, more sexually free friend, not somebody going hi, it's me.

Well. They also did a study and like Charlotte was the most prude, but she still fucked over seventy guys.

On the run of that show. Are you serious?

Yeah, Like they did the numbers like they're all sluts, you know what I mean?

Like I have the merch that says, are we sluts?

Oh? And we found out our Carly who are the did we already tell them this? I played tennis with Carly gen Andrews, who did our logo.

We went on a friend date and I got to meet her in person. We didn't tell them this. I don't know. Maybe it's not interesting. I don't know. But we played tennis. What's happening?

No, it is weird to socialize freshly with people, and like, I don't know, it is pretty wild to start over again and be in public and be at people houses and I could tell people are like, Okay, our hang.

Is done, but I'm like I'm not leaving it.

Yeah, I'm not ready to stop talking, so I'm pouring another one.

Yeah, it's fun. I went to like an indoor dinner last night, me and my husband that there are another couple and then his parents who were in town and who liked to do it up when they come to town. We went to a really nice place and had like a really long dinner. Like I had to keep texting my babysitter being like just a little bit later, I didn't realize we were getting dessert and coffee.

No, yeah, I heard that our friend's parents love a good time. Love a nice dinner, love a throwdown credit call like they like, yeah party, there are martini steaks. Yeah.

And there were a lot of drinks, a lot of drinks, and you know what, I didn't appreciate. The somelier at the place who does the wine was like bringing out glasses and there were six of us and he brought out five glasses. And it's like, yes, I know, I am nine and a half months pregnant, but I will decide if I'm having a glass of.

Wine or not.

You do not need to only bring five classes. So I made him bring me a glass.

Was he kissed or no? No, he was like oh oh so like yeah, he just like brought me one.

This actually reminds me of something else, but that I would like to talk about the fucking horrific abortion bill that was just signed by the governor in Texas. And then my friend Julia, who is here, was tweeted like, I wonder if all these freedom fighting Austin centered comics we're all about freedoms and no laws and no censorship, are gonna say anything about this fucking abortion bill or

Word, right, And to clarify, this is a law that makes it so that like you can't have you cannot have an abortion after six weeks I believe. Is that correct? Yes, And you can't even get in at a doctor until you're seven or eight.

Weeks to confine.

And anyone can sue you, like if someone like you can. You can sue the person who drives you to the clinic, you can sue the receptionist, like anyone can sue anybody if they find out you were at all a part of an abortion. Wow, it's like truly the most heinous act. And before the election of twenty sixteen, I remember a lot of me and my friends were like super concerned and scared about Roe v Way and all of this happening, and everyone was like, you're hysterical, shut up, relax, give

Five six years ago are now could happen? Yeah, and Mississippi is the same. I mean, it's going to be states.

I mean, it's just going to be people crossing state lines to try to get abortions.

Now, it's fucking crazy.

And what happened to all the anti mask people with my body my choice?

How is that different?

They're just all really big hypocrites and it's really upsetting and I'm just scared for everyone.

And I don't even know do I hope for the best.

It's like, we have all these justices and judges everywhere that are out of their fucking minds and people are gonna die from this in horrific ways.

Yeah, no, it's it's fucking tragic.

But you know, hopefully Joe Rogan won't get canceled like fucking it's so annoying.

Yeah, hopefully white men will still be able to speak their truth.

The balls of that man.

You just made a hundred million dollars on your own show and you move to a place to not pay fucking taxes and then you're talking about like are they gonna come for me? It's like you get paid millions to talk. How are you so diluted? It is so frustrating.

Well, he's speaking up for his brogans, right, He's speaking up for his followers.

You know, man, they need their voices heard, Lisa.

We need to hear their hot takes on fucking bitcoin and abortion.

Oh you know what's terrible. I have a diamond tattoo and it has BTC. It's like an inside thing with my friend and I. People think it's a bitcoin tattoo. People have been coming up to me going bitcoin, and I'm like, what the fuck, And so I have to get it covered up.

No you don't. Oh my god, people think I have a bitcoin tattoo.

Kara.

That's so fucking funny, Lisa.

Also, we do have to mention that was a funny video you sent me of Rosie. You were trying to have Rosie bond with your future baby Yes' Instagram.

I put it on our Instagram and I will save it in the mention it all highlight if people want to see it. But I was basically like pointing to my tummy and going like, hey, Rosie, who's coming next week?

Who's coming next week?

Like and like making her look at the baby, and she just like looks me in the eyes and like grins and goes Lisa like.

She's got you on the mind all the time. I liked when you went, oh my god.

All right, well, speaking of babies, this is a sort of kid centric episode of SBU. Let's get right into it and get going for today. All right, let's get going into the woods, guys. Today we're doing Glasgow Man's Wrath, which is season sixteen, episode six. So we open up on like home video footage of a little girl sleeping and then like her mattress gets tipped up, she falls

The older girls seem like.

They're around twelve and the younger girl is maybe nine or ten. The whole movie then kind of switches to them like being witchy, right, like you're having some kind of like witchy time, and they're like it's November first, the day after Halloween, and they're about to do a ceremony. Now they're outside on the street like with their little backpacks.

It's super super cute.

They film a lot of stuff up there to try to make it look like suburbs, because like it's very there's very cute little streets with houses and stuff. Like I went to a shoot once there that was on this like adorable little street where all the houses look the same. So anyway, they're making their spooky vlog and about how they're talking about how they're going to go into the park to find Glasgow Man and by dawn and their.

Journey will begin.

The girl videotaping Perry is trying to like freak out the little one whose name is Zoe, and he's like, oh, he likes the little ones about Glasgow Man. And then they like hear a sound, they start running, and we're just it's just very blair witchy found footage, like we're just seeing them kind of run and it's like it is pretty creepy. And then suddenly like you see Zoey go down and it's like he's got Zoe and the camera's on the ground like just obstructed by leaves.

I'm like, does did Found Footage exist before Blair Witch?

Like blair Witch is Found Footage?

Yeah, I know, and then and then paranormal like all the paranormal activities.

But that's post.

I feel like Blair Yeah changed the game for cheap filmmaking.

So true. And that came out in ninety nine, right. I remember me and my brother in law went to go see it.

I went to go see it Lisa. I was working at summer camp. I knew so no TV, I've got no Internet, I've got nothing. And my brother had told me about the movie before I went to camp and was like, yeah, it's real, like they found this footage of these kids like that that were never found again. And so when I went to go see it, I like fully thought it was real, Like it was the most terrifying movie going experience of my life.

So I remember not being scared enough to be honest.

Wait, but you're younger than me. I was like nineteen when I saw that. Weren't you like twelve? You weren't scared at all?

No, because I was ready to be so scared, and I was kind of disappointed.

I remember being like my brother in law was so scared. I remember my.

Brother in law and I went to go see the Hillary Swank movie about like the plagues, like the Egyptian you know what I mean, Like like there was focus and stuff, and I remember him jumping and going insane, and I'm like, this is humiliating for you.

Bro.

I have been known to scream like a cartoon character in horror movies in the theater, but that one, I've just scared the shit me because I thought it was real.

No, for sure, I've screamed at lesser things. I'm not a tough guy. Like I screamed at the Gift on a plane. Oh, my Gift is freaky. I remember screaming at the ring we saw us together.

I screamed, yes, you were a bundle of nerves during US.

I feel like I was scared.

I screamed during Yeah, I will scream, but maybe I didn't scream as much as a youth.

I don't know.

Blair Witch was a disappointment, but I'm impressed with their I don't know, like ingenuity.

Yeah, yes, like they were on the frontier of the found footage stuff. So now at the top of act one, it's regular TV again. We're not looking at the footage anymore.

It's sunrise. Rollin's and Crisey are on the scene.

A birdwatcher has found Zoe who's being loaded into an ambulance and she's been stabbed a bunch of times.

Koresy is going to talk to the.

Bird watcher, but first he's like any homeless around here, and the uniform police officers like what do you think? And he's like, go round them up, and I'm kind of like, not a great look that you like immediately are like it's the unhoused, you know, like give it a second, Like I don't necessarily think unhoused people are just wandering the parks to stab children. So now they're talking to the bird lady again. More birds on SVU.

Maybe because they're just always out and about looking paying attention.

Those are the people that like have a camera, I guess. So we're talking to the bird lady and she said she saw a guy.

Come out of the woods.

He was huge and hulking and standing over the girl's body. She said she shoot him off, but she also took photos and she's like they're digital, very cute. So now we're at the hospital and they're looking at the pictures on the phone that are like kind of blurry, and Rollin's we get a little we get a little glimpse into the personal lives where Rollin's asks tomorrow, like, how is California because at this point we know that his wife Maria and his daughter Zara have moved to California,

The most beautiful woman in the world. Yeah, she's so beautiful.

We've talked about her before, but her real name is Evanna Copat right. I'm probably saying her name wrong. I apologize. She's been in ten episodes of Best View but this is her first one. So she first appeared in season sixteen, and I believe has been in season sixteen through twenty one, so we'll see if she pops up this season. In twenty two, she says, Zoe's lucky.

To be alive.

She had all this head trauma, plus one of her stab wounds was millimeters from her friend Artery, and she is out of surgery, but she lost a lot of blood.

So now these two women rush up to Rollins and Tomorrow.

These are Zoe's mothers, and they want to know if Mia is there too, because they to their mind, Mia and Zoe both went to a sleepover at Perry's house, and Perry is a single mom who is not answering any calls or texts, but there the mom's tracker app says that the girl's phones are inside Perry's house. So Rollin's and Tomorrow had previously been debating whether to call Olivia because she's home on like her one day off with Noah, and they decide ultimately they have to call

I love him. I wish they could have just like kept rotating babies.

And she had like a Benjamin button like Noah that never grows up, because you will know how I feel about older Noah. So then she while she's playing with Noah, she gets the call from Rollin's and Tomorrow and she's like, yeah, let me just call my sitter.

I don't really.

Understand why they have to bother her, like it doesn't really seem like.

Well, it's an active chase. There's two missing girls. They need to find out the kid.

True, I guess. I just it's a big deal.

I know.

I'm just like, you guys know how to handle this. How long have you guys been on the squad? Gotta tell your lieutenant. I do get a live in nan. I don't understand this nanny that's just going to show up on Sunday in the middle of.

It day has a super nanny this because like later I think the nanny's name.

Is Lucy, and she's just like it's four am.

Lucy can you pop over like we've got a VIC Like, it's crazy how flexible Lucy is.

I hope she's getting the coin.

So when they get to Perry's apartment, Rollins and Tomorrow are coming up the stairs. They come upon Perry's mom, Barbara, who is seemingly being attacked right outside her apartment door. They pull weapons the guys like I'm on the job State police, and they were just doing like a sexy rape role play. I guess, I don't know. It was like very weird to me that that's like the moment that the cops get there is when they're just like playing break in.

It seemed weird.

So she doesn't really understand why the cops are looking for her kid, and it's like, have you not checked your phone in twenty four hours?

Like they said, They've been texting her and she's not answering.

So it's like you're on just like a date with your guy, overnight date, just not checking your phone even though you have a teenage kid. Sorry I'm being a judging mom right now, but that just seems weird. I'm looking at my phone constantly.

Yeah, care, but it's not always for parenting that you're staring at your phone.

No, but when I'm away from Rosie, I literally am.

Like looking at my phone just because I know my husband's gonna text me going she's having a meltdown, like and I'm gonna have to like do some kind of triage over FaceTime. But I'm just saying, like, it is kind of weird to have like a thirteen year old daughter who's home with a sitter and you just haven't looked at your phone in twelve hours, because like these kids have been gone all night.

I just wanted to call you out and your phone prads. You think I look at my phone too much? You look at it a lot? Yeah, I mean I look at it a lot.

Yeah, we're all looking at it a lot.

She Okay.

So they get into the apartment, they don't see the girls, there's no sign of struggle.

They call Perry's cell phone.

It starts ringing from inside the hamster cage, and that's where all three of the phones are. And here's where we find out that Perry just turned thirteen. Mia is twelve. So they're just like these are just little, I mean, like barely teens. So Olivia is now at the precinct, She's pissed they didn't call her. She's like, we got one girl stab, two missing, and they really don't have that much to go on, just some blurry photos of you know, this man.

That the birdwatcher took.

And then on top of that, every cop in the city is working the New York City Marathon because it's marathon Sunday. And then Zoe is awake, so we go over into Zoe's exam room so she can explain what's

Who are talking about. She's like, it was the Glasgow man.

So that is this figure who they were trying to meet, but then who.

Also attacked Zoe.

So the cops are all gathered about two search they're looking for a big guy, possibly with a scar on his face and an eyepatch. You can tell immediately because they're all wearing sailor hats that these are cadets in the police academy. They had to call him the Juniane Uivarsity because all the other cops were working at the marathon.

And I din't catch that. That's funny. Yeah.

They find kind of like a circle of sticks, very Blair witchy, and then that right near there they find Zoe's backpack, and then they find this sort of little cave and one of the cadets just saw a guy run in there, so he comes out eventually growling like holding a stick, like saying of like just like you know, and they tase him, and Rollin's increase here being like

But it's still selfish because they need him to find the girls. Sure, so they can't they they can't taste the shit out of him because they need him.

To chat, right, true, but they are also SVU yes, and they're very patient and kind with him kind of the entire time, which I just like feels very sv the show to me and not necessarily real life. But they've got this guy down, handcuffed. They're going to bring him in. So they bring Perry's mom and her horny boyfriend into the precinct. They show her the suspect. She's never seen him before, so she starts crying, being like we lost to them, they're dead, Like she's freaking out.

And probably needs a little bit of help.

Okay, they're talking about this guy being let out of the State asylum, and of course he went on to like reoffend and Cariese's like, I mean, you can't be surprised when you unscrew the lid of assault shaker and the next surprise when it spills all over the table, And I'm like, can I get a job? This is not a good metaphor. It's not funny, and it's just like who's unscrewing assault shaker and leaving it on the table.

It's like, what are you pranksters? Pranksters.

That's what they let him out of his They let him out of the state asylum as a prank and he stabbed a guy in a kidney.

So I think the prankster won.

So yeah, I just I was like, there's a better room for a better metaphor here, So no weapon on him. They're testing his clothes. The cave is pretty tidy. Of course, you noticed how tidy the cave was.

No, that's what they said. I was impressed when I saw it later.

When I saw it later, I was like, oh my god, he keeps it so clean. So they're talking about searching for these girls in the woods, but Tomorrow's like, the woods are really dense.

It's the last primeval forest in the area. And this is true. I looked it up.

So this is Inwoodhill Park, which is part of one of which is Manhattan's only primeval forest, and a primeval forest is basically just a forest that's been mainly untouched. So there's like a weird moment where Caresy and Tomorrow or like butting heads. Did you notice this?

We're like, oh, I noticed it, and I was like, wow, we don't really get them that much together, right, Like yeah, it's kind of a rare tree.

There is this like weird moment where Careese and Tomorrow are kind of having like a little bit of like a dick measuring contests of like, let me take it a run at this guy.

I actually have a pretty good relationship with him.

And then it's like Amanda and then Olivia is like, Amanda, pick with one of your boyfriends you.

Think is better? That was shady. Yeah, Olivia knows how to drum up some drama.

So Charlie is definitely kind of having like a paranoid mental health event when they go in to speak with him, like he's sort of going from howling like a dog to telling them he knows he's on their watch list. He said he saw a missile shoot down the plane that presumably Sully Selenberg landed, and that like they know that he knows the truth about Sully's flight and that's

A real Munch vibe. Yes, it's a very much vibe. Munch is like I've heard of weirder things.

So they're gonna go check out the device and he's like, I'm gonna need my eye patch back for that, and he's like, don't and he says he has like a really touching and he's like, don't threaten me with medication.

Just treat me like a man.

So it's like kind of a when I had pink Ey but still wanted a party in my early twenties.

I did go out with an eye patch with pink eye.

Yeah, my friend Chox, he bought me a pink eye patch with a butterfly on it.

Lisa, I appreciate the fashion moment, but I think you're supposed to let pink eye like breathe.

I know, but I used to get it all the time for some reason, and so I just needed.

To go out.

You know what, if we keep this in the podcast, people are gonna say, the reason you get pink eye all the time is because you're not washing your.

Hands after you go.

Yeah.

Are you sure you want that input, Liza.

Yeah, I haven't had pink eye like over in like a decade. Yeah yeah, but I had outdoors. I had shows last night, and I did go. I mean it's over, guys, right, Like I stopped washing my hands and I got laughs both times. So I think I think everyone's not washing their hands now. I think everyone's well noting happy birthday anymore.

Not to yes, and not to the degree that we were.

Like the minute we walked in the door, like before I even touched Rosie, I was like washing my hands. I'm definitely I've definitely lost that discipline.

My favorite is like when we all couldn't get wipes, and then I found, like through a friend that we can get wipes from U Salon websites like to clean tanning beds and hair studios, and so all of us bought jugs of these wipes.

I have had two massive ones that like one of them is unopened. One of them has like maybe ten wipes removed from it.

Like it was like over, like we got them too late in the pandemic process, and we all just have these Salon wipes time, like our eye tend group.

I literally this past weekend, I've had them on the counter like ready to sanitize, and I'm like, I think it's time.

To put these away. I just put them into a cabinet like goodbye, goodbye, sweet but.

That jug in suitcases like every time I've gone home to Skokie and back to LA I'm like, I gotta get my salon wipes, and then they're never used.

It's so big, I can't believe you traveled with it anyway. So now we're back at Charlie's cave with Charlie's help, and he tells them where to find quote unquote this device, and like he keeps asking Careesi to like switch his eye patch so that like people like can't see him or like he can't get hurt. It's sort of like a endearing little thing about Charlie. And then he's like, Okay, thank you, we found the device. Let me take you back in. Rollins is like, I'll stay here and guard

So I don't know.

I got the impression that Charlie had thought that that device had been planted in his cave like a long time ago, but I guess it was just the night before, like when these girls went missing.

I really don't know get the timeline sometimes with.

These things, So they are able to take off video off this like sort of smashed up camera there's video of the girls talking about how tonight glasgow Man's going to meet them and take them to his mansion and all this stuff, and they're like, Zoe didn't tell us any of this. So at the hospital, Zoe's claiming up. She's like, I can't tell you. I already broke the pact. It's like, your sister is missing. You do you've missed? Your sister is missing. Your moms are going nuts. The

Yeah, you're down. I'm down with a mansion with no rules.

A mansion, no rules, no school, I'm in, and that there are portals to other realms inside the mansion. And in the video they'd been talking about a map, and so they're like, well, where did the map come from? And Zoe's like, oh, from Leslie. Perry's babysitter plot twist. Leslie is a boy, So they go to Leslie's apartment. He is kind of just like this nerdy dude and he's got all these drawings up on his wall and he's wearing a Glasgow Man sweat, which.

I kind of like, yeah, I want glasgow Man. I was like, I.

Would totally get a glasgow mansbun shirt. So they're like, tell us about glasgow Man and he's like, glasgow Man isn't real.

So they show him a picture of Charlie. He says, oh, yeah, I know him.

I bring him food and he tells me crazy stories and the kids call him glasgow Man. I just took it and ran with it and like amped the story up for entertainment.

They treat him like a full on deviant criminal, and I'm like, he's clearly like a sweet nerd. I don't get their aggression towards him, Like I was thinking the same thing. I was like, you all guys need to calm down. They start ripping his shit apart, and it's like he's he's a good I don't know. It confused me, and I know they have to rush because they want to find these girls, but I was not into how mean they were to him.

He clearly is a chill dude.

And he has like a It's like, I think even since twenty fourteen, that kind of stuff has been more mainstream, just like graphic novels and you know, spooky mem type of stuff where it's like that doesn't necessarily mean you're like a deviant who kidnapped two kids, Like you just are into My husband's into that stuff.

He's not kidnapping anyone as far as I know. You know, he would not be able to be kidnapping.

Without you know it, without me knowing. He can barely eat at Arby's without me knowing. Okay, so Perry, he basically explains, he's like, Perry likes scary stories. I started telling them these stories. I'm trying to turn it into a graphic novel. Because then they find this picture of like basically the three girls and they're like have blood on them and they look spooky, and it's like, yeah, because he turned the little story he told them into artwork.

It's not that's not a crime. So they're like, where's the map.

Olivia starts like ripping things off the wall, and he caves because he doesn't want them to like destroy all his work. I don't know why he wouldn't just say before where he thought the entrance might be, but he basically says it's like an entrance that he created in his mind that would be upriver somewhere. And they talk about Spitan Devil Park, which I hope I'm saying the right way. It's in the Bronx. It's right when you cross over from Manhattan into the Bronx, and so that's

They enter an abandoned building.

First they see a knife on the ground, then they see a dead cat, and then Amaro finds this like abandoned room that has like you know, vinds all over it and breaks down the door and finds the girls lying on the ground bleeding, barely conscious. I mean they're talking, they're like help us, but they're they're not fully conscious, and they say, who did this to you? And Perry goes Glasgow man he said he was coming back to bleed the devil out of us, but he never did scary.

Okay.

So now we're in the hospital. Mia is giving her account. She seems fine. She's not even like in a hospital bed. She's like sitting on a hospital bed fully clothed. So I don't know if MIA's stab wounds were just kind of like shallow, like she's not even in a hospital gown. She said they were in the woods. Glasgow man saw

So he covered Zoe with.

Leaves and left her there. And now they're talking to Perry getting her story. And you can tell Olivia kind of clocks that they're using some of the same language, so like they like almost like they rehearsed their stories or were relished in some way ballistic.

That's kind of what stopped her.

Also, I do need to add, like while they're talking to Perry in the hospital, there is a the mom's hand with like red long nails as on her shoulder, and it is the most aggressive hand acting I've ever seen in my life. Like, I couldn't stop looking at this hand. It's giant, and the nails are so acrylic, and she's like petting her unwrinkling the show like it's just like a full with the Adams family hand.

Yes, it's so much and you don't and you only see.

The back of her head in her hand for like ten minutes, and I'm just like it was distracting for me.

Wait, I'm also humiliated. It's not cousin it. It's thing.

Oh, I can't believe I said cousin it. Cousin it means that way worth it.

I don't care.

Cousin it is the hair. I've just love the Adam's family and I don't want to embarrass myself. Well, when you just said cousin it, I went, oh, yeah, the bald one.

Like that's vester. Thing is the hand. Okay.

So Perry says that Glasgow man tied me up and they're like, but he didn't tie you.

Up, and she's like I was fighting him off.

It's like, okay, so you're you're stronger, what you're like smaller than me? This is none of this is starting to make sense and They're like, oh, yeah, Glasgow man hurt helicopters and got spooked and so he stabbed Perry, killed the cat and took off and she heard him kill the cat.

She didn't see it.

And she says this all happened last night, Sunday, and then she identifies Charlie from a lineup on the phone and says, oh my god, how did you get this close to him?

So at the hospital.

Now outside of this room, beautiful doctor is back and she tells Rollins that they have dehydration and exposure. They had food in their backpacks, mostly candy, which I love because I feel like I planned to run away like two or three times, made it to the top of my driveway and then was like, it's too windy.

I should try another day.

And I feel like all I ever had was like a package of dunk a Ruse and some fruit snacks, and I was like, this will last me.

Yeah.

I love. One of my favorite things is kids with little suitcases with their own bags and it's like, what.

Have you gotten there? I want to know, would you pack? It's cute. Yeah, So she explains that the stab wounds on.

Perry were all on the left side mostly arms, no organs, and they're not as deep as Zoey's.

She also says that these.

Wounds are fresh, like only an hour or two old, and that she had no defensive wounds. So Rollins, you know, meets up in the hallway with Live and Tomorrow and they're basically like the timeline on this is way off. They've had Charlie and custody since Sunday afternoon, So there's no way that these that he could have done at this because these wounds are fresh.

I love the confidence of children thinking they can mastermind a whole thing, I know, against a New York City police I know.

So Rollins has checked their social checked their texts, and she's like, they don't really have that much up there. They don't have that many other friends, and it's just like a ton of texts back and forth between me and Perry about probably about Glasgow man, and they're like

We're sisters. We love each other. It's like, really cute. She's in a couple other movies this, she's very sweet.

The knife in that they found in the gatehouse where they found the two girls only has Perry's prints on it, so now they basically have confirmed she stabbed herself. The knife that stabbed Zoe has DNA from Charlie, Perry, and Mia. So Charlie was telling the truth like he didn't do this, I think, because I don't know why. That leads them to believe that he's definitely telling the truth since his DNA is on the knife, but also the girls is on the knife, so.

They're like, should we call Barbara.

This is a bit of a blue balling for the Barbara Brigade because they go, should we call Barbara, and then they're like no, and they don't call Barbara, and he never shows up in this episode, so I could see how some of you would be upset. But Olivia

The girls are under fourteen. I don't know what the rules are.

So Crasy goes to Charlie and he goes, you know, I know you're crazy, but you're not paranoid, and he wants to get him into a program, onto some meds. He's like, we can't just like let you back out into the woods, and Charlie's like agrees.

He's like, I can do that for a little while.

So hopefully, you know, some piece is going to come to Charlie because ultimately he was a good guy who was just helping a little girl. Okay, So now we're in an interrogation room with Mia, and this is my favorite kind of interrogation on SVU. When it's like raining outside and dark and there's lightning, like I just think it's like like, I don't know, I love the feeling of it, so it's like spooky and fun. And I also like when it's pouring rain, but you're dry inside.

I think Rosie's rubbed off on you. Oh, because she likes sayings spooky.

Now, oh yeah, you can't stop. Well, this episode did come out around Halloween. It's supposed to be a Halloween episode, and you know Halloween is for spooky times. Yes, but my kid is all the time saying is that spooky to me? So she's trying to figure out the definition of spook. Okay, so they're interrogating Mia. She's like, I just thought we were gonna leave Zoe in the woods

I can see that so scary. You could see that happening. Yeah, you don't have a little sister. I wouldn't have done that to my little sister. No. I don't think my sister would have done it to me either.

But I don't think it's like that crazy to be like, oh yeah, let's just because I remember we did have a friend who was scared of the cemetery, and we tried to plan like a way to drop her in there at night or something, but we couldn't. Like we didn't, but I could. I just don't think it's that crazy.

I think bringing them in there and kind of like hiding from them is one thing, but like to leave them there, that seems like, I don't know, that seems really harsh.

I'm not advocating for it, I am Jaz.

It really sounds like you're telling people to leave children in the woods. That's kind of what I'm getting from you right now.

That's the vibe. So, And like the woods in New York, how big are they?

They're pretty big. This is a prime evil forest. Doesn't that scare you? Just the idea of a prime evil forest leaving a nine year old, I don't know. I don't know what prime evil means. I told you a primeval forest just means it's like an untouched forest. It hasn't been like manicured. It's not like Central Park with like a you know a lot of boat houses and cute little freakin rot like ice skating rinks.

Well, I would never say Central Park is a forest.

Okay, where do we go from here. I'm just telling you I don't think leaving a nine year old in a primeval forest, which seems like a very dense forest.

Is a good idea. I don't think it's a good idea. But I do understand that kid prank. You know, I could see it happening without it being like, these bitches need to go to jail, you know.

Okay, the snabbing is what takes me over the end.

The shabbing, Yeah, I would say the stabbing is a heightening, to put it in improv terms. So they're like, well, why did you bring a knife, And MIA's like, I didn't bring a knife. Perry brought a knife. She brought one for her and one for me, and it was for protection. And then basically the lawyers are like they need to know whose idea this was, and Mia completely flips. She's like, it was all Perry's idea. She hit Zoe on the head with a rock. She told me to

I guess that just means one of glasgow Man's people.

So when Zoe was lying there bleeding, Perry says, I didn't feel glasgow Man's presence. I started to doubt myself and that must be why he switched up the plan. He led us to this gatehouse in the form of a cat. I knew it was him.

He had Glasgow Man's eyes, and he told her to murder mea she.

Goes, the cat was glad at me so powerfully trying to make this hypnotic connection. I couldn't take it, Like, I just think the way she's talking as a thirteen year old is kind of funny. And then she stabbed the cat through the heart because she didn't want to kill her friend. The mom is like freaking out. This is horny mom. She's like freaking out. I've never heard her talk like this before, Like, this isn't my daughter. Now we meet Ada Peppa Cox. She says, this girl's

Like kids just have crazy ideas.

Of how the body works, Like I feel hot, I should cool off my blood by stabbing myself.

You know what I mean.

It's like weird kid, Yeah, kid anatomy. Okay, maybe you'd have a comment, but.

No, I'm on board with everything you're saying.

So she says, do you know, did you know stabbing Zoe was wrong? And she said no, the police were wrong. Them entering glasgow Man's realm made the world an unbalanced place, and glasgow Man's partners from the other realms are going to come back seeking vengeance.

We're all going to die. I mean, she sounds very cute and on to be honest with.

You, like she's really like, she's really like, you need to open your eyes and see what the truth is.

So the judge has.

Basically heard enough. She says family court is meant to be therapeutic, not punitive. Wouldn't it be cool if that was true of all court to be therapeutic or not punitive. She rules that Mia was also a victim and declares her not responsible, and she recommends, you know, weakly, psychiatric care for Mia and Zoe. And then she says, Perry, based on your testimony, I'm remanding you to a psychiatric facility to remain until you're no longer deemed a threat

Out, you know.

And then when they get in the elevator, Mia and Perry also get in probably not realistic. They get in with their parents and like the cop that has Perry arrested and everything, and then Chraesy looks down and sees these two girls, me and Perry link their little pinky fingers together for a couple seconds, and then he's like making an incredulous face and he sees that Rollins doesn't see it, and he's like, wait a second, and then we fade to Dick Wolf.

So they did trick everyone.

Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, like this was this seemed like a yeah, a story that they set up.

They nailed it. Yeah, as Nicole Byer says.

Famously, but let's take a quick break. And then Lee's like, can't wait for you to tell me about the real crime.

Okay, so this real crime.

What's wild is so much in the episode is exactly the crime.

Like the words ballistic are you used? In this case?

The stab wound missed the victim's artery by the thickness of a hair like half a millimeter, and so that's connected.

Just there's just a lot of.

Connections between the case and it happened within the same year, and it's like.

Pretty fucking wild. I love when it gets really close.

And I will just say, you know, also, like the show, the girl does not die, which is amazing, and I like that. Now, sorry if you were if you liked the suspense if this kid is dead.

Or not, sorry if you were hanging on waiting for a child death.

But she is alive, which is really happy, which is that's not proper, but it's a good thing. So there is a slender Man documentary HBO put out in twenty seventeen. This case happened in twenty fourteen, and then obviously, so the documentary ends before sentencing and all of that stuff,

I was getting.

Nervous during my research and this documentary, like I'm gonna kind of follow their pattern and the way it was basically like current time mixed with the past, so it was like you would see them in interrogation, and then you would see them in core, and then you would

Even believe it either, So it was wild.

So then the search begins for the other two girls, Anissa where she's a brunette and Morgan geyser blonde. I might be calling him brunette and blonde throughout, but it's Anissa brunette.

Morgan blonde.

And so they're looking for these girls, you know, sky and cars, and so the logline of what happened is they lured her into the woods and left her for dead. They used a five inch blade and stabbed her nineteen times. Like fact that Peyton survived is insane. And Peyton is also called Bella, so her name is Peyton, but she had a nickname and they called her Bella a lot, so it's interchangeable.

That's like what she went by with her friend group.

And when they asked, who did this to you, she said, my best friend. So this isn't a stranger and these girls have been best friends for years. And then so Morgan and Peyton best friends for years. And then Anissa is like Peyton didn't really know her, but Morgan and her were very very close, and Anissa had no friends at all. She was a dork and Morgan befriended her and they became friends, and Anissa was just so happy

And he's like a tall, thin man.

He's a faceless ghoul and basically he's like it's kind of like it follows where once he gets you, you will never escape him. He will always follow you for the rest of your life. You can't summon him. He just arrives and then you can't get rid of him, and he has tentacles that come out from his back and can choke you.

Yeah.

I remember when this case came out, like I specifically was very interested in it and also when it actually happened. Also, my sister's nickname is Creepy, so we were very into. We were very into talking about Creepy Pasta and calling her Creepy Pasta. But I remember thinking that the images were really really freaky, Like when they were posting just slender Man stuff on blogs and stuff.

I was like, like, I just know he is creepy, and then it's kind of like in Glasgow Man, where he's like bad, but also he is an escape. So if you're a kid who hates your life and thinks school sucks and you have no friends, you kind of want to go with slender Man and escape this sad reality I have. So to some they wanted to be with slender Man, and then to most I think they were scared of him.

And there's a lot of.

Like photoshop photos that I can understand why a child would be tricked of, like black and white photos with slender Man behind a tree in the distance or like away. And then people made videos there's tons of videos on the site of like kids running with found footage and seeing slender Man. So I can imagine someone being like I've seen the photos. You know, I don't think it's that shocking to for a kid to believe something like this.

I thought Bob from Twin Peaks lived in my basement.

So yeah, yeah, for a while, I was scared of Batman and I was too scared to go to the bathroom and I would pee behind my family.

Couch and I got in trouble.

What Yeah, because I was home alone a lot and I was just like terrified to go to the bathroom, so I would squat behind the couch and pee. I mean I was caught, but I would imagine, Yeah, it just I was scared of going.

I was scared.

Now, so that's like the background. Now our back to reality. So we have patents at the hospital and they're looking

Oh my god, they would have been start her.

Yeah, so like they left her and then started this walk that would have taken days. I would say, I mean, I don't know about You can do the math problem if you really want.

I don't. I'm not going to do it.

There's like tons of interrogation videos, and as an SVU watcher, I'm just like.

Shut your mouth, get a lawyer, don't tell them anything. They're not on your side.

But fun fact, in Wisconsin you do not need an adult present to interrogate a child.

Which is crazy because that's part of making a murderer. When they when they were interviewing his nephew, who had like a very low IQ and probably should definitely have had a parent with him, he confessed to all this stuff that he's like, that's actually just stuff I.

Read in the book Kiss the Girls. I read that book. Yeah, And so I was a big James Patterson girl. Yeah, and so they didn't wait for any parents. They did get their miranda rights written to them. But yeah, the girls just like confessed everything. They were in separate rooms, obviously.

But they both said, basically, slender Man made us do this. Well, they said a lot of stuff.

We'll get into everything, but they were very honest and it was slender Man, and it seems like they truly believe slender Man. So it's like they had to do this or slender Man was going to kill them in their families and they had to do it for slender Man. And then like Morgan said, I didn't want to do this, but she was scared what would happen if she didn't. That's what they kept saying, so like they had to do this to keep their families safe.

And they asked the.

Cop like, did you believe the girls when they said that the believed in slender Man, And the officers did say yes, like these girls fucking believed it. It wasn't a cover story or anything like that, like they believed it.

And yeah, yeah, it's a little bit different in the episode because you don't get the feeling that Mia is fully on board with the slender man shit at all or the Glasgow Man stuff like.

No into it enough to leave her sister stabbed in the woods, but yes, yes for her friend's attention. And then in the courtroom in the future, the cop, one of the cops that was interrogating, asked if Morgan was remorseful, and he says no, like she had no remorse or no emotions right all reading that, and then what's like

The nature of the crime.

I guess I think so because I'll be honest, like throughout this whole thing, I know what happens to them. And we talked about it and it was very much like, this is bullshit. This is bullshit, Like they should not have to sit in jail for decades and decades for something they did at twelve. But later and I'll go into it when the judge is explaining why. I understand where he's coming from. I still feel sad for everyone involved.

Like there's just a lot.

But the judge basically was saying, like it's it was premeditated, this was thought out, and we.

Have to think of the safety of people.

We can't guarantee the safety of others with these people out in the world. And can I just ask one quick question, Yeah, did they did they take turn stabbing or did one person do the stabbing? No, one person did so Anisa was like the ringleader in a way, but made Morgan do the stabbing. Oh, like she said the word and went now and then Morgan legit whispered into Peyton's ear, I'm so sorry, like she didn't want to do this and then just started stabbing her. I

Like he he was crying talking about it.

It's hard for him, but he was a functioning member of society and he was able. He goes, it's really hard because you know it's not real. You know, the devil is not in the backseat of your car, but it is real and you sense him and you feel him and you're scared. He goes, it's scary, and so you know it's not real, but you can't help but feel the fear and the real life reactions to it.

And the father is just crying a lot.

And unfortunately Morgan never talked about it, so they didn't even know she was suffering for it from it, and so it is really sad. And she talks about how she's had visions since she was three years old and she didn't talk about it with anybody, so like and now when she's incarcerated, the parents can't really discuss it with her either, and so they're really sad about it.

To leave her dead in the woods, yea.

And that that's intent and lying and manipulative, and they were going to leave her and not help her. And so it's like even after the fact, they weren't going to help her, and.

So I understand why the judge is like, nah.

Sorry, yeah, you know that makes sense. Yeah, you don't get to be released. But I obviously understand why the defense attorneys were gunning for that.

And that was like a year.

So the case to just like appeal if they're charged as adults or not was a whole year, and then they were going to be tried at all. And this is kind of, you know, a coincidence, because I'm a step getter. But Anissa ask the cops if they know how far she walked because she's usually not an athletic, but wants to know her step count. So that was like a little moment of funny in this horrific sadness.

But I liked that she wanted to count her steps.

So outside of adult or child, the next issue in court is competency and we see that in the episode with Pippa Cocks, like can these kids even are they sane enough to stand trial? So going a little bit backwards, like I said, you know, I'm going to go back and forth through things, is like how the doc went, and then I have other resources I'm putting in here, but I'm just going in the order. And so basically how they all hung out, as a niece's parents say,

Like nothing was, no red flags, no red flags.

And Morgan was saying that a Nissa said we had to do this or he would our slender Man would kill our families, and like she didn't know that much about Slenderman, but Anissa did. And so when you add Anissa's fascination with slender Man with Morgan's schizophrenia, that's a recipe for disaster.

Yeah, because it sounds like neither of them.

It sounds like they were both in a way a little bit out of touch with reality in terms of what a death actually means, like or like taking someone's life.

Morgan's mom was saying how Morgan like believed in Santa till she was eleven and like the Easter Bonnie and all of that.

That's what I'm saying, Like I don't think that there's necessarily like normal like not normal, but I don't think there's like typical development going on with ideas and concepts with these girls or at least or maybe at least with Morgan, like where ye like to stay sorry to someone and then stab them. It's like implies that you don't really understand how your how your actions are creator having an effect on someone.

So Richard Fuckins was explaining how, like what's the benefit of being a believer, And it's like it's the feeling that you're special and you're a part of something just by believing it, Like you don't even have to put in that much effort, Like suddenly you're in this group of people just because you believe.

In slender Man, right, and for people who have not found their people or not found that in their life, that's huge.

You know.

Yeah, And the whole thing he was explaining it's behind folk belief is you can't prove without a shadow of a doubt that slender Man isn't real, So like you can't and that's like with God, like you can't prove he's not real, so then that proves that he is or whatever, like if you know, without a shadow of a doubt. So that's how like folk beliefs grow, Like we can't judge these girls when people go to church

Okay, so we'll get into the details.

So on the stand during the trial was Michael, doctor Michael Calwell, a psychologist, and he gave them also he said that the girls they had schizo toopy. It took me a lot of pausing and Google it and like even.

Google was like, we don't know what you're trying to say. We cannot help you. So what is schizot to be?

It is the diminished capacity to know the difference between what is real and not real. Yeah, it's a personality disorder characterized by thought disorder, paranoia, and a form of social anxiety derealization. Yeah, psychosis, and uh, that's what it is. And people with this feel pronounced discomfort when forming and

Out your lives with no problems.

So he doesn't think Anissa is a psychopath or sociopath at all and has no signs of it. So we get to Morgan diagnoses and doctor Kenneth Kasimir is giving it up and it's schizophrenia and oppositional defiant disorder and she had asthma, which I don't know why they needed to add that on the stand, but cool. Also during the trial, Morgan still seemed really scared of slender Man, Like she was scared that something she would say would make him angry and he would kill her and her family.

So like nothing that anybody is saying to her is getting through to her that this is not real.

Yeah, and that's the thing where I think the mom was explaining she does think Morgan understands no one else sees what she sees, like her visions, but they are real to her, but she is aware enough to know it other people aren't seeing it, So I don't know if that's good or bad, but it is what it is.

And that was all found in her bedroom.

Okay, And if you ask Morgan, like what if slender Man doesn't exist, she does not tell that kind of discussion. She knows it is true. It can't be proven untrue, go fuck yourself, So she is not willing to discuss like maybe if slender Man is not real. And then a corrections officer actually testifies during this as well, and she said that Morgan, while incarcerated and juvenile detention, said it had to be done. The man ordered it, She said. The man started to visit her when she was three

Now, this is Morgan, But I thought that Anissa was more into slender Man. That's what was said towards the beginning.

I mean, that's kind of the thing where they were both pretty honest during the interrogations, but then there.

Were these moments of like she wanted it more, no, she told me what to do that.

So, yeah, and it sounds like Morgan may have just been having visual hallucinations like her whole life, like from the age of three, and then like when you heard about Slenderman.

She's like, oh, that's who this is.

Like that, you know, just seeing some kind of figure your whole life and then kind of just melding it together with this new thing you're learning about.

Yeah, it definitely took over her life. And then there again.

This is like I get like how the two girls stories differ a little. Anissa said that after they did it that she cried and said, I want to go home. And then Morgan said you can't tell anyone because you'll spend your life in prison or get executed, and then blamed Morgan for everything and said you will. You stabbed her, you wanted this, And Morgan's aware of what's happening, like in interrogation she does ask the officer are you going to put me in prison?

And am I going to rot and die?

And then on Anissa's phone there was a goodbye letter like please don't remember me for this and like just kind of suicide style letter. But I don't know if it's because she knew she was going to go to jail and it was like please forgive me by peace out, I'm going to jail or suicide.

It does sort of sound like they didn't want to.

It's like they had to, like or you know, they were scared of what this man was going to do.

Yeah, you're right, I don't Yeah, they didn't have bloodlust, like I don't think they but but they are dangerous, Like I wouldn't want to live in the neighborhood with these girls for sure.

But it's just it's interesting that they're not just like, yeah, what would it be like to kill someone?

They're just like, well, this is the.

Order we were given from our Supreme Master, and we have to do it or he'll kill our whole family, you know.

Yeah.

And so it took a like I said, it took a year to decide if they were going to be tried as adults and children, and we touched on this already. But the judge in the court basically finds that it was violent, premeditated personal offense and a decision made to let the victim die. It was an effort to kill someone, not attempted like a mistake. This wasn't Oh I pushed them and they fell down the stairs. They made an effort to someone And he said, I know they're young,

I'm like fuck yeah, Judge, And then I'm like damn, I don't know.

Yeah, because when we were talking about it, before all the research and all of this, we did talk like.

Come on, why so long the girl lived? Who cares?

You know, Like no, yeah, I mean not necessarily now, but like you know, the girl did live, and they were so young. I mean, like to me, it's like there's a big difference between like twelve and like sixteen or seventeen, Like that's still under eighteen, but you're like more.

Mature, and like, I don't know, twelve is like still so just a kid to me.

Yeah, like what if like they might have not even had their periods?

Like yai right, but that guy.

The case with the episode of With Conscience, he got life right, Yeah, he keeps getting paroled, but he keeps getting parole opportunities but didn't being denied.

And he was young.

Yeah, he was really young. And he's forty in his forties now and still in prison.

What chucking to me is that the person has like a mental health diagnosis and is still being sort of kept for so long like that it's like she wasn't being treated at the time.

So it's like now that she could be treated. That's a really good point.

And they, like Morgan pleaded guilty and then the court found her not guilty because of reason of mental disease or defect, and she is put in a mental institution for forty years. So in terms of getting care, it's not a prison, Like, she's getting care, but it doesn't change anything.

I was also reading that she was the youngest person in her facility, and I can't imagine that that's like an easy road.

No. Well, now I'm just thinking about it in terms of Orange as the New Black, and like, I hope the women.

Are taking care of her, or is it? But they're in June until eighteen? Oh was that how it was?

They were in juvenile detention until eighteen and then they were moved to mental facility.

No, no, like Morgan was being held at a state hospital and Anissa remained in custody at the County Jail for juveniles.

Oh, like, they're not just putting a.

Twelve year old in with like hardened right like fift twenty five year olds. But and then Anissa got twenty five years and eligible for release in twenty twenty. She was denied, but she can appeal again in June, and Anissa was charged as an adult with an attempted first degree intentional homicide in June twenty fourteen, but as part of her plea, the court lowered the charge to attempted second degree intentional homicide and took her insanity defense to

I'm just happy Peyton is alive and doing okay.

Yes, Bella, truly a miracle that she is alive.

Yeah, thank god for that off road bicyclist. Like the knife cut the tissue of her heart but not the artery.

Wow.

All right, well, let's let that sink in and take a little break and we'll be back with our guests. Okay, now it is time to talk to our very special guests. We were so happy to talk to this actor. You guys have seen her on tons of shows, Criminal Minds, Parenthood, Chicago med. She also has played the role of Katie in three of the paranormal Activity movies Spooky and she played the creepy Glasgow man devote Herself Perry Gilbert. Please check out our chat with Chloe Changrey.

So wait, so where are you are you?

I'm actually in California, so I'm originally from Houston, but I go to college out here.

So I'm in my.

Little apartment in north Ridge, California.

Were you living in Houston and then sending tapes or were you moving around sending audition Like how did your early career work?

So I started traveling to LA when I was around nine years old with my mom, but most of the time we would just come to LA for three months at a time and then go back to Texas. So when I auditioned for Law and Order, I was in Houston and I sent in a self tape for it.

Wow, you were young, so I'm assuming you never watched it.

I was when I auditioned for that. I was a freshman in high school, so I was fourteen years old.

So yeah, Like we get some listeners that are like, I've been watching the show since I was ten, but it was a little young.

Like did you ever watch the show before you?

Uh?

Were on it.

I had not, But my dad is the biggest st fan in the whole entire life.

Love it's your dad.

He's a little he's a dentist in my small town.

So when I booked the role, my mom usually goes with me on step but my dad was like, I am taking two weeks off work.

I am going to New York. I am going with Chloe for this one.

Oh my god, I love it. He's like, let him get cavities. I'm going to meet him exactly. I love it. That's so funny. So was he geeking out on set? What was his experience?

Like, Oh my god, he was fan going so hard.

He was absolutely in love with the whole experience, trying to talk to every single person.

I'm like, Dad, I'm on set.

Like You're like, Dad, leave ice tea alone.

Yeah, he was like, can I have a photo? Oh my god, can I have a photo? My dad?

Please go? That is so funny. I love that. So tell like what was the general vibe on set?

Like you were so young, like, and we were talking about how normally when a guest star comes on, they're usually like alone or maybe there's another guest star, but like you were on with like these two other girls that were like your age.

Did you guys all get along? Did you do you keep in touch?

Oh?

We do?

Yeah.

I actually still met Mina and Una still follow each other on Instagram, but we all became super close doing filming. And I had never been to New York. It was my first time there, and Mina and Una are both from New York. So on I think our second day of filming, Mina was supposed to go to a Broadway show with her parents, and she was like, how about you come with me? So she let me come to the Broadway show with her just so we could, like Vaughan, get to know each other.

And it was amazing.

We saw aDNA Menzel, which was incredible.

But yeah, the girls on set were amazing.

We definitely all got along really well, which I think made it a lot easier to all so young, So it made it easier when we were on set because we're all friends.

That's so great.

Well, this is jumping ahead, but you know, what is your theory? Who was in charge?

They saw the pink? What was the plan?

I go back and forth on this, but I genuinely think that they believed in Glasgow man that Perry and Mia believed in it, but once they realized that they were getting caught, I think they devised a plan. Okay, Perry's going to act like I'm crazy. I'm gonna act like I'm crazy, and you pretend like I made you do everything so.

Then I can get off.

Go to a mental institution, and you just get to go off and be with your family.

So you were only like fourteen when you shot this. Did you care about, like any of the other cast members that you saw? Were you like excited to see any of them? Or were you just like, who are all these old people?

I honestly had not watched the show show. I didn't know who they were.

But then it was so bad because after I was on the show, I started watching it and then I became the biggest SBU fan.

I've seen every single episode, and I.

Was like, God, why did I not like fully taking that experience when I was there?

Like, now I'm obsessed with all of these people.

That's amazing. Do you find Carees attractive?

Yes?

Yeah, I mean, come.

On, he's so cute, character's so sweet. How can you not like him?

Yeah?

Well, I'm like, I think he's very hot and Karen's I'm like, he's okay, whatever.

He's not man candy for you. Yeah, I'm more into some of the other guys on the show. But uh, I you know, I get the careasy thing for people, I really do. I just think his accent is a little bit dorky for me.

Yeah, his auction's a little much, but it's part of the charm.

I think.

Let's talk about when you're on the stand and you get those tears flowing.

How did that work? How did you?

I mean, I guess you'd been acting since you were like seven or eight or something, but that still seems like you were. That was multiple tiers you were pushing out without getting hysterical.

I was actually, I'm kind of funny story abou this.

So when we were doing that scene, I was very nervous and I can cry on cue.

But it's like it's a little hard for me to get there. And I was on set and I was really nervous.

I was shaking a little, and we had done a few takes and I was just having kind of a hard time getting there and Marshka came up to me, looked at me in the eyes, and she goes, you're gonna cry on this take.

I believe in you. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, we do the next take.

I start crying, and after we like cut the scene, she is running around the sound and saying, yes.

Oh my god, my girl. That was incredible.

Ah.

I reaked out. I was like in my head like, oh my god. Like she just looked at me in the eyes and started talking to me.

Wow, what a woman.

All right, she's incredible.

Tell us about the paranormal Activity movies because that's like a big thing for you, right, and like I can barely watch a horror movie now and I'm a full blown woman, and like you're eleven years old in these horror movies.

Well, so we watched the trailer.

Well I was watching the trailer, Oh my god, and I was like, what are you watching.

I was scared of Activity three, and I was like, she's the main person. You're the main Like, I mean it looks so I jumped like four times just in the trailery.

Yeah, it was definitely on set. It was not scary at all. And I think now I'm so susceptible to not being scared watching horror films because I was on that set and I did.

Three of those movies, so they just make it such.

A fun environment on set and everything's like in special effects afterwards, when you're on there, it's just completely normal. I remember in the Bloody Mary scene where the ghost is supposed to be banging on the door, it was just one of the ads and he was just banging on the door, so it's not scary at.

All, which is the scariest scene in the film.

But for me, I'm like, Oh, it's this big guy just banging against the door.

It's not terrifying. Wow.

What scared me was like some they poured of water and the ghost was there.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like when they do paint or whatever. Yeah.

We obviously were stalking you a little bit on your Wikipedia and everything, and we notice that your twenty first birthdays.

Coming up in a few months. You're the youngest person we've spoken to on our podcast.

And really, yes, still honored.

But you don't feel like we're talking to don't You don't feel like we're talking to somebody who's super young.

You feel like an old soul.

Oh thank you, But we want to know what your twenty first birthday plans are.

Okay, I think I'm actually going to be back in Texas because I go home for the summer. So I'm hoping that my parents said that they're maybe going to fly on some of my best friends from LA to come down to Texas. So hopefully we'll go to a few bars in downtown Houston, maybe a few clubs down there, right, because I mean, Texas is completely open now, which is very weird.

But.

I got my exactly. I'll be fully vaccinated by then.

I love how close you are with your parents. I would never celebrate my twenty first birthday with my parents. Actually I did, never mind, I did, I did, I did, I did, I forgot, But they are your close with them.

Extremely close. Like my mom is my best friend. She had done acting with me since I was nine years old. I owe everything to my parents.

I've worked with a lot of girls who were like Disney girls when they were younger and stuff, and they would come to LA with their moms and they're so close with their mom. I think when you like come to LA to like you guys live in like those furnished apartments in Burbank that everybody lives in. Oh yeah, yeah, like you know, like I feel like you're just there with your mom and you're like, hope I get this audition.

You're running lines with your mom, like you better be friends with your mom or song d you heard about those apartments?

I just said my from my Disney folks.

Where every child actor had lived.

It's like a classic place.

We lived in this really tiny apartment one time, and it was one room with it was a studio, and I had a little bed right by the bathroom, so every time my mom would get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night would wake me up because my head is literally right where the toilet is.

So that was probably one of the worst apartments we've stayed on.

But sacrifices for the art. I guess right, you gotta do it, Okay.

Wow.

I love talking to her. It's so nice to talk to a young, a young soul. She's so young, not even twenty one yet.

Now it makes me feel all confident in her future.

Yeah.

Same.

I love talking to like a young twenty nineteen year old person or whatever who just has like a great head on their shoulders and is not like all.

About fucking TikTok. And I want to meet her dad. Yeah, and her dad, huge, huge fan. I want to meet her dad. Mister Chendry, What up? Listen? What did we learn? The Internet's evil.

Creepy Pasta is not for me? I learned that, but I learned that a long time ago. I actually did go on Creepy Pasta. I don't know why I mentioned that, like when it when this case first happened, my sister and I went and checked it out.

We were like, this is too much. But yeah, I guess it's just like, keep an.

Eye on what your kids are watching and make sure they have a healthy sense of reality versus make believe or imagination.

And don't stab your friends. Yeah, don't stab your friends, you guys.

And also yeah, like, if you're thirteen, like the chances of you outwitting the cops are super super slim.

So I just wouldn't take the bat.

I don't know if you're thirteen and listening to this podcast and considering committing a heinous crime, but I would just, I mean, watch a few more seasons of.

Its view and for your some shit out. Oh, I learned what what is it? An unkept forest is prime evil forest. I learned about that. That's exciting.

Unkept forest.

I learned about Primevil and it sounds like something different. It sounds like a haunted forest, but it just means not chopped up. Yeah, not used for paper. Yeah, they haven't put a boat house with a Sauvignon blanc in it yet. Oh, we learned that Olivia Benson has one of the best babysitters with the most flexible schedule in the life of her own.

Like, honestly, yeah, drop take where you're using care dot com sitter city.

What are we talking about here? I need to know.

I need to get a babysitter that I can literally call at three am and say get over here.

Like she needs to have a plan, B babysitter. I can't always be lucy, Like that's my issue. There just needs to be another, right, It's just not realistic.

I have ten babysitters.

Names in my phone and I have one kid, and I've been mostly in a pandemic.

My whole life is a mom so, like, you definitely have to have a plan B babysit.

Are you sad when you have to call number eight or do you still trust them?

I actually haven't had to mostly my top two or three are available.

Yeah, babysitting so wild. Also like, don't leave your sister behind.

Oh my god, don't leave your sister in the woods at night in New York City. That's just not I don't think that that's that's not a cute prank.

No. And then also when your other sisters are missing, stop keeping secrets. Spill the beans. Spill the bean, like what is going on? Also, keep your cell phone close by, have an Apple Watch, you know, like, I know you want to play sex games with your boyfriend, but just keep an eye out on your kid.

Yeah, and I think we can all take a lesson from Careesy about treating the unhoused like people.

And manipulating them to get them to do what you want.

Well, he just said, treat me like a man, And I feel like that's what Creese tried to do. You know, he didn't treat him like he was like, they did lie to him a little bit.

You're right.

Someone online was like, I'm a Stabler fan, but I would want my sister to date Careesi, And I thought that was a nice way of putting it.

This was a great episode. It was what Zeo was a departure.

You know, we always say in SVU there aren't no comparisons of crimes.

But you know, this is a chill one. The crimes weren't so heinous. Yeah, well nobody did die, but you know, and d it was just girls stabbing each other lightly.

It was kind of you know some Yeah, in real life, if it was bad, it was Wait and actually somebody did write us and told us that they had like a friend who was like tangentially involved in the case and like wasn't allowed to obviously tell her anything, but said that it like the real life case like gave her nightmares because it was one of the there's stuff that's not been released about it. She said that is like horrific and like like you just would keep you up at night.

Yeah.

I always mean the SVU episode was like obviously sure, of course what happened in Wisconsin is not chill. I'm not advocating for any of that.

Just no chill.

Yeah, as far as crimes go. But and you know, killers, they're just like us. They're trying to get their steps into.

We're all working over Yeah, when those girls thought they could walk like ten miles to the park, well, you know I think that we did. We did speak about the real life girls involved in this case and how one of them was a person suffering from skits sophrennia. And so for this week's what would Sister Peg Do, which is when we direct you towards resources or articles or books or something to help you get more information about the.

Topics we broached.

In today's episode, we thought we would focus on NAMMY, which is the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It's NAMI dot org and it is the nation's largest grassroots mental health organization dedicated to, you know, building better lives for millions of Americans affected by mental illness.

So go check out their page.

There's a ton of resources on their website and you can get more information and things there.

Thank you, Karra, You're welcome. That was really good information. Well let me take that in thanks Kara. That was okay, back to you, Lisa, Kara, that was really informative. Boom goes the Dynamite. If you get that joke, you might be old. Okay, did you get it, Kara? No, you don't know Boom goes the Dynamite?

What is it?

It was like a really really famous YouTube clip and it was like a newscaster who is young?

I don't know if it was like.

School news, like a university or like local news.

But he just had a.

Brain fart and couldn't get anything out and he was like, oh, like started stuttering and saying words it didn't make sense, and just like truly lost it on air and at the end goes boom, goes the dynamite And those are the only words he.

Was able to cut get out of his like stuttering. I never say that, but I shall be looking it up.

It was awesome, So we'll post that because it is one of the greatest YouTube videos.

And next week we're taking it back. Baby.

We're gonna do Execution, season three, episode fifteen, So please do your homework with your cute pets and good snacks. You can watch all the episodes on Hulu and peacock and we'll see you soon.

Bye bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

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As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU superfan and our incredible producer, Hannah.

Kyle Kragon, and to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly Right Media.

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