Gambler's Fallacy w/ Donal Logue

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.

Done, Hello, we are here s I've done this eight hundred times.

I can't believe this just happened to me. This is thats messed up an sv podcast. And I am Lisa Trigger.

And I'm Kark Gleg and this is our two hundred and twenty third episode and Lisa is.

Not knowing how the name of the bob what happened.

I'm looking at the name of the episode we're covering, and it broke my brain. So I'm looking at our sheet and I'm like, what's going on here? But I do know the name of our podcast, and I wear our merch everywhere like I It is embarrassing because sometime, like I said, at soul Cycle, people be like, hey, love the pod.

And I'm wearing an icy sweatshirt holding.

Do you have a children detective bag? And I'm like, I need to get out of here.

No, I love it. And speaking of merch, by the way, everybody, you have to go see Lisa on tour because she is selling Did I make it to the fridge, Yeah, oh you're on my fridge. Baby baby Lisa will be looking at me on my fridge forever. She's right next to Honestly, this all ties in perfectly. She's right next to my magnet that I got from an amazing listener. That is the woman from It's Isabella Rossolini from Death becomes her as well as Meryl Street from She Devil.

So you need to go to see her on tour so that you can buy that.

Thank you so much, because it is a Mythsvah, you said that, And if you've seen me live, you know I've been talking about it. The magnets are so heavy. I'm so so mad at Kara. We've been selling magnets for the podcast for years. Not a peep, not a peep. Every club I go to that got the box, they were like, what the fuck is in there? That's the heaviest box we've ever got. And it's a small box. That's what's crazy. It's a small box. That weighs I would say sixty pounds.

Yeah, the box is wild because it is like a very small box that's just packed with magnets.

It's so heavy.

But I don't bring the whole box, like when we go on tour, I just bring. I usually bring what I.

Think you to be a little more organized than that.

Because the week before I was in Portland, I go, oh, I should have merch huh. And then I also like, also people come to see me that haven't seen the specials, so they're like, what is this, or they someone came from survival, and so then it's like it's also fully out of context. It's assuming so much onto the person. But I just like magnets I buy. I loved our magnets we sold, and I love Broadway magnets.

Yeah they're so cute. Oh my god, wait what you just saying?

That minds me that you saw death becomes her, that I saw death becomes her, and you told me how great the merch was.

And I didn't even go by the merch table. Fuck I had I had had a little bit of worry. I bought two pin sets. Okay, they were so too Maybe I can have one like I I we went and like I got I had a little bit of wine before and then I got the like the big wine there that comes in the little Death Becomes Her, like cup, You got the cup? Yeah, but I left

But like she was out that day.

But still the girl who played her was amazing, Like the understudy was sickening. They were so good, Like I just loved it. Maybe I was buzzed, but I loved every second of it.

No, And as a lover of the movie, I thought there would be moments of disappointment or confusion or I don't know, and I felt none of that. But it's so funny. So I just got my gray covered. And my hairstylist she loved it. But she her daughter, who's only like four or six sick. I don't know, ages are hard, but a child, No, she's six, because she's yeah.

I'm like remembering where she is in school and reading.

Okay, Anyways, she loved the music, so she actually took her child, who's seen it now twice, who loved it?

Who?

And then she's like, I don't know if I could show her the movie, because it's true, once you see.

The musical at my be hard to Yeah, especially as a child.

Well that's so funny because when I was watching it, I was like, I wonder if Rosie would like this, Like I would love to bring Rosie to this.

And then I loved the set I feel like Rosie would love the set and the darkness and like the effects of it all.

And honestly, I think Oscar might be my Broadway baby. Like Oscar is always asking me to play Wicked.

Oh, I mean the guy, the little guy who's wearing a Frozen dress.

Yeah, he might be the Broadway might be my musical guy.

Just saying he might be, I'm I know, I'm gonna make a huge swing here and say he might be. Like like I was like thinking this summer, I'm going to be in New York, and I was like, I should take him to a musical. But I would I like to say, so something that's not Lion King. I don't feel the need to see Lion King a second time and before, But why.

Don't you just go to theater that's not Broadway that's geared towards children that are that young, Cause it's like that's like, ugh, Like I don't know, I've gone to a bunch of stuff like that, and it's just more it's straight for the kids.

Like I'd like to go to something that we both enjoy, you know what I mean. Like if they were doing Frozen on Broadway, which I think they did, do, Like, I bet we'd both enjoy that, you know what I mean. But like I think right now, people let me know if there's something that you think a four.

Year old is there, like a turtle? Yeah, like I would maybe six. He might like six because there's no intermission. I think it was just one.

Act and the pop yeah, the gay pop is and Juliet. Oh that's right, that's right. Six is like but it is there's not much plot.

It's like each girl sings, but he's into dresses and they do look very yeah, and.

They look beautiful. Okay, that's what he likes, beautiful things, as he likes.

To say, I feel like six is really beautiful. But also in death becomes like the sexiness of the dancers.

Those outfits are so cool. Oh I did.

I kept saying, look how hot these fucking dancers are, Like I couldn't believe how hot everyone was.

I can.

And of course the guy who plays Ernest, that's an svulm he is.

Okay, I brought my prom home because I didn't get a chance.

We got there like with only a few minutes.

I usually have more time to like scan my program and see who everybody is.

And he's Sex in the City. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, he's in Sex in the City. He's the guy who works at Helena Rubinstein who goes down on the women but doesn't go down on Samantha and she gets him fired the women's luncheon. So I mostly remember him from Sex and the City of being the massage therapist.

Okay, wait, now I'm looking up who this guy is. Oh, Christopher Cyber. Okay, who is he on SVU?

I need to know?

Oh, yeah, I recognize him. Oh my god, totally. I didn't recgnize him in the musical because you're wearing a fucking mustache. Well, there was one complaint I had, but I didn't want to mention.

Yes, I wanted to do it. I was. I was watching the musical going, I wonder what Lisa's complaint is.

So I just feel like Isabella Rossellini is so sexual and sexy and powerful, and I think Michelle Williams hit her notes like sounds incredible, was regal, and hit her jokes to her too, like the timing was amazing, but like she was stiff.

Yes, yes, I just fine.

I agree because the people that I said that to, their kind of response was like, but the dancers and everyone else was so sexy and she just did a different thing, and I get that, but I just am really into Isabella Wrestlingi's character, and I was just I was a little thrown off by just that.

But that's so minor from a movie I love.

Well, I agree with what you're saying because that's true, Like she was kind of just standing there, but that's like famously, I think she is like the least sort of charismatic destiny child, I will say, but I thought her voice kind of covered for it because she sounded amazing, Like she sounded so good and I don't know, she has a huge reaction when the curtain opens, and it's heart like I mean, I but but I agree, Like, imagine somebody like who takes over for her that has

I could see that really crushing Tony Orb.

I did just see a video on my Instagram where it was like they were performing something at an award show for Michael Jackson, but Beyonce's obvious. In the middle, it's Kelly and Michelle, but Michelle's hat falls off and Kelly what a professional quick on her feet throws her hat off too, so it doesn't look weird. And I was like that, bitch, wow, backing up your girl. I like loved it well because it would have looked weird, just like I like that on The Fly Present Saturday, Theater of It.

Okay, Just to bring it all full circle, Chris for Cyber, the guy who is in death becomes her as earnest. He is in patrimonial burden with our girl, Geneva Carr, who we interviewed, and I think she's the He's the husband of the family like that has the kids that they're married, like the Dougger family.

Basically, Yeah, it was interesting. Well, it's so funny because the moment I saw him, I turned to who I was with and I went SVU and then later looked at the program. She's like, you were right, and I was like, well, I never questioned if I was right. Well, I do have something to say, yes pertaining to Luigi obviously, Bah Papa Luigi report. I'm not going to do everything I do want to say, Like news came out about how there's all these porns made with him and all

I saw it as a meme.

I saw it as a meme of like a girl being like you hear Luigi's in a bunch of pornos, like searching the computer, you know, like more of like a he's hot.

It's just no.

Now.

I looked at all the sources. It was like three magazines, all not real. So I'll Radmax. But it's also just like it just doesn't that doesn't make sense. But also what I found out that this is what I really wanted to talk about, but I knew people would would. People are sending me a lot of stuff, and I love that.

I'm really in the loop. I'm knowing at all.

But my big thing Karen, who is his attorney, She's incredible. She was like the da of Manhattan just seems really incredible. I went to the legal pages reading about the law firm. They also have like a few lawyers I just wanted to read. And she was a consultant for Law and order. Is a consultant for law and order. She might be a little too busy now I wonder if they're bothering her, but yeah, kind of exciting consultant for law and order.

Love that love that connection. I knew I loved her to begin with. So is she's Ditty's lawyer or her husband?

Is her husband?

Is?

Okay?

I think it would be crazy to do two giant cases at the same time when it's right, that's true.

That's true, that would be crazy. But do you think these two people.

Ever see each other? Like she's representing Luigi, he's representing Diddy. What is a fucking dinner between them?

Like?

I would love to know. I bet they bring work home. I bt I bet they each have their own office. I have bet it's a sprawling apartment leather. I think it reminds me of like I want the green desk library lamp, you know, like I'm imagining that kind of vibe.

But it's also kind of like I bet they watched White Lotus. Yeah, like, does it remind you of like that guy James Carville and like his wife, like how they're like the famous Republican Democrat couple. Like she's defending this guy who like is like a modern day Robinhood of sorts that people are really like lionizing and like, and then he's.

Defending doctor Michael Batten ended up marrying one of like Casey Anthony's a herne Is and Phil Spector's you know what I mean, and not marrying dating he left his wife for this woman.

So it's like, yeah, it's just like I mean, everybody deserves a defect.

That's like what lawyers. Yeah, yeah, lawyers know that everybody deserves a defense. But I met they don't even talk about it. I'm shocked.

She even hyphenated her name to include his, to be honest, Karen Friedman Agni filo.

Wow, Wow, Well she's amazing.

Of course she's involved with law and order, like lawn order is the best, so why wouldn't they use the best. So that's exciting. Well I did, I did you love it or leave it? Which I could. I never thought i'd be able to do. And I'm so excited. I did it, but I talked about Luigi a lot, and it is upper crust in a way where I'm like, maybe someone told Karen about it, and I did advocate. I did advocate, and I was losing some of the

That's you could see the three gays.

Because I always whenever I do love it or leave it at that theater, I can't see anybody in the audience. They keep it so dark, so I'm always like, is this hitting? Like I can never tell.

No, I had the time in my life and we'll do some celebri updates. So Jesse Tyler ferguson Modern Family. I also on an episode of el Sbeth recently. Okay, so noone else I mentioned it to him. He was like, okay, but walked in going already watched this, He goes, I already watched the special.

Loved it. Oh my god.

I told all my friends about it. They've already seen it. I guess I'm late to the game.

Oh I go. Jesse Tyler Ferguson you're right on time. You're right on time, honey.

But then obviously I'm a bad girl and I'm comfortable at Dynasty as you are.

So I'm smoking weed back there. I've been walking on stage.

I heard him go, oh my god, it smells like and then he came back out and was like, wow, it's pretty weedy back there, and like, yeah, I'm actually going there tomorrow. He was the coolest person I've ever seen. And then his he walked away and I took told the I looked at his pr person, I go, what an angel and she goes, He's my favorite. He's so incredible, and he was like making little jokes, but he knew who he was. He wasn't like fake humble where he doesn't know he's Jesse Tyler Fergus.

Yeah, and just.

Was making me laugh and make me feel so good, and I just like, it just made me really happy.

I love that.

I mean, he's that. I love Modern Family. It's a great show. Oh my gossip, my flag race. He was a judge on season five. I go, oh my god, not the best season, are you kidding me?

Yeah? Whoa he got in there early. Oh I love it, I.

Mean, and then friend of the pod Laura Bananti, posted about the special and DMed me we DM. I don't think she remembers she was on our podcast, but I.

Saw her post about it. She doesn't remember. Well, she you should have been like, girl, you had a yoga mat on your head.

I remember, it's one of our favorite memories. But she was just so I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it dead. So that's amazing. Well night, now, I was still streaming on Netflix. Everybody, get your butts to the Netflix to the I know I'm I usually try to be demure, but I have been way more vocal to strangers. I told the woman who does my laundry May. She was like, so, what do you do. You're traveling, you're in, you're out, And I uh, I said, honey, I'll show

So I go, okay, okay, okay, yeah, let's not let's not go too young.

Wait.

I'm actually going to be at Dynasty tomorrow night. Not that this is a promo, because this is happening. This episode's coming out after this happens. But I'm opening for a comedian who I've never heard of but has like a big social media following.

And her name is Shannon Fiebler. Oh my, not the Hoffs who produced my special produced hers.

Oh okay, yeah yeah yeah, I'm I were tomorrow night at Dynasty. So yeah, she's like pregnant. So I don't know if they like wanted a mom or whatever, but you can bring up the Hoffs. Yeah, okay, we'll do Yeah.

Wait, I can't even believe it.

That's why I mean, Dinasty is a great venue if you guys live in La, around La. Their programming is incredible. Yeah, they're so comedy like performer friendly. I mean, the snacks in the back alone are you're the best.

It's like fall of size candy bars.

First of all, that's where we did our first live show ever, not counting the one in my backyard.

That was where we did our first live show ever.

And they're just like, they're so nice to me when I go there just to see something, you know what I mean, Like some venues it's like if you're not on the lineup, they don't really they're like okay, but everybody's like always so nice and like what can we get, Like, I don't know. I love that venue. So shout out to Dynasty Typewriter. If you live in LA, do check out their calendar. They're the best. But I went to New York speaking of like comedy, I was in LA

Great crowds in DC, and we were happy to be there because truly, yeah, they are feeling the bleakness pretty hard, feeling it. But it's like a lot of these people work in the government and yeahah and even everyone.

Yeah, even talking to my friends that live there, I was like, what's it like to be here? They were like, it's like it's probably, I mean, it's probably we're all feeling it. But I think to live in like the belly of the Beast is like tough, you know, so they're like everyone we know, Like my friend's like I'm getting a call every Friday of people getting laid off.

It's like really really tough.

So I know it feels so hopeless, and I also and it is so big, and it's all the news is bad. I do have a new glimmer of hope, but I don't know if I'm being a fool. I think he's gonna start fucking people over faster than we think that like him, that they're gonna revolt. I think he's gonna fuck with the rich, the tariff, like, I think he's gonna crash the economy so bad, and I

But this is just this morning. But I also don't know.

Yeah, the problem is like because you're what you're saying is pretty much absolutely true, Like that is going to happen, I feel. But the problem is what I was reading this morning is that just like the their media, like the right wing media, is like he's killing it.

He's crushing so like people I'm talking about, yea, that are the reason they both looking at the Yeah, and once we're all fucked and we're not shopping and we can't you know, the Canada, all this stuff is happening. Yeah, the things are plummeting whatever, the stocks are plummeting, like I plummeted. Yeah, I feel like once, I think the rich people are about to get fucked faster than they thought, because he truly is a fool, Like he's a bankrupting fool.

But anyway, I loved talking about the DC show was amazing, and thank you for everybody that came out. We loved you guys, And it was just it was just so fun. And we got some really funny bracelets. Thank you to the person who made me a bracelet that says Clank Family Classic because that really tickled me. But then I was so I was in New York, and after DC, I went to New York. So death becomes Her obviously a huge highlight. And then Monday I kind of went

In a minute. It was fun. It was like fun.

It felt like I was like back in my my like twenties and early thirties when I was you know, like just going around doing like four or five shows a night.

It was fun. Had a blast. Yeah, where'd you guys, eat, what else did you do?

We went?

We ate at Rosemary's in the Way, which I hadn't been to before.

It was good. It was just like in between.

She had to show at Stonewall and she had to show at Pete's candy store, so we went in between, and then I got over. I got to go over to her house and meet and see Riz. He would not really give me the time of day. I tried a couple times and he was not having it. But that's okay. I met my sister's dog. My sister got a dog named Betty. You got to meet her dog. And then I went to New Hampshire and had a fun little weekend with my.

What kind of dog is Betty? We could tell you're not an animal person? Well, you're like the cat didn't do exactly what I wanted as I walked in, even though he doesn't know me, and I guess there's a new dog.

No.

I gave Riz a lot of time and then I just was like really trying to slowly approach him, and he was looking at me for a lot of it, but he was he would not approach. The dog is a rescue a mix, a pit mix. I think, but she's blind a bigger dog, but she's not that big, like she's not that big, like she's are they excited? Yeah, yeah, they love her. I mean, my sister's already like acting like a mom. She's always like well with Betty and like I have to take her to her blood work.

I'm like, oh my gosh, well because I know the true child this summer, so I wonder if they're gonna have to just now drive for their vacaate, like they're gonna not want a vacation in the summer.

Now, I think that they will because I think like this summer they weren't going to vacation anyway, Like they'll come out to they'll come out like and see us in Connecticut and stuff like that. I don't think this summer they were gonna do a trip because they did a huge one last summer. And then by next year, I think she'll be more tame and calm because she's

But also everyone fresh off the beat, Robbie Hoffman and Gabby Windy, No, I know, and I.

Can't believe that it's been like two months. It was a secret.

Oh okay, because I'm like, oh, they got married in Portugal.

They're in Portugal right now, That's what I thought.

Here was No, they got married in Vegas in January and they haven't told anybody. And I'm like, I was just texting with Robbie about Gabby like a couple weeks ago, and yeah, no, no, leak's there. She wasn't telling me the big secret. So I think it's so cute. I'm so happy for them, big big news. But no, I think my sister got the dog with her husband wanted it, by the way, to close the loop on that combo, not because of Benji.

She just he wanted one. How else was la you went due to the story how is your camp thing?

Oh, it was great, it was great. I went to New Hampshire. My friend lives in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. What a picturesque little fucking town that is.

I don't know.

It's also shout out to Vermont where your camp is, because they fucking said jd Vance do you want to ski?

Go fuck yourself? Yeah, they bullied J Vance right off that mountain. The fucking Yeah. New England doesn't fuck around. It's so funny because I posted the some of them are montras. My favorite things that they posted inside the signs they wrote for Vance. One was Advance puts his cast iron skillet in the dishwasher and the other one was Vance skis and jeans, and I thought those were my those were like my favorite ones, so I posted those and then the Vance puts his in the cast

Like?

So Portsmouth had like three or four stores that are like I don't know what the equivalent of like La stories maybe like spitfire Girl or something like that. Like gift stores, like stores where you can buy like little onesies, magnet socks like whatever, you know, funny books you know that.

I think, yeah, so many like that, and.

Like there were there were stores like that when I was younger, but now they all just have swear words in them. Like now it's just like, oh, you want to find me, I'm out fucking hiking.

Like everything's just like everything is like fuck fuck fuck.

Like there weren't onesies that said for a baby that said I came from nutting, like but spelled n U T T I N like just yeah, I got I gotta. They didn't have they didn't have patients and size. I'm so sorry, but yeah, I was just shocked. I was like, Wow, these like gifts kind of shops have been around forever, but like they're they're they feel like a little bit more high end now at the same time as feeling very like so like just dirty kind of like so

But anyway, or.

Like books that just say cheese porn, you know what I mean, Like I would just it's just funny to me. But I also have kids that are at home going fucking god damn it. So I don't know why I think swearing is going anywhere. It's where. I mean, swearing is fine obviously to me. It's just was shocking to me that at these little stores in New England where people are like, maybe I'll go pick up a gift, and then it's just like fuck everywhere. It was making me laugh. But New Hampshire was great.

We walked around, we saw the ocean, we went to dinner, We laughed.

We had a great time. I have the best time with them. We just laughed our little asses off. And then I had the longest fucking travel day ever coming back. And I got back to La right as oscar traffic was unleashing, so it took me forever to go home. Yeah, I forgot. I shouldn't have done that. I love the Oscars. I don't know why I booked travel. I guess I had to, like I had to get home, but like, I really like watching the Oscars and I was bummed that I watched it.

That I had to miss it. You know, not watching it live. How was How was La?

I'll say it was the best trip I've had in a while, the most fun I had.

It was like really busy.

I was like both two days, I had to be somewhere at nine am or like nine thirty so and I was go go go, had a nice had some meals, had a dinner, had Alfred. I was fine at my spots, played some games, did some podcasts. I saw a little esther, I met her baby, loved that.

Oh cute. Wait does she live in Oh yeah she lives here?

Do yeah?

Yeah? Yeah.

Someone recently was like, no one calls her little esther anymore, and I'm like, you're right.

She was a grown woman, she has a child. But it was it was just.

Fun, you know, because we've known each other since elementary school. Yeah, like really nice to hold her baby. She's so I haven't had a little baby in a while. That's so really sweet. It was nice. And then I got upgraded and fucking slip man. I Yeah, it was just so fast. I think, La to me is like my family trips three days max.

Yeah.

But yeah, I'm trying to think if there was like a big LA highlight.

But it was like a petticker with a friend. Sounds like it was pretty fun. Love it and leave. It was one of the best nights of my life. I was on a.

Buzz, like I went being like early night, I have to be up tomorrow morning. And then instead I was like, oh, I gotta go out, like I am jazzed, and I could tell I annoyed him at first, but then I really got because I was like, are you mad at me?

Cause I you know, I am who I am and he's a dork.

So he's like so smart, but it's cool to be around someone that's that smart. Like at one point he like mentioned like this person the sea blah blah blah, and in my head I went, wow, yeah, this is like actually really intelligent.

What was their hot take that you two agreed on. I saw it on your Instagram, but I forgot it.

Just that thin mints are are overrated. Oh they need to be in the fridge.

But I had one callback to something where I could tell he was impressed, and like there there was something about me where like I wanted to impress this like smart guy, but because your gold seem made fun of me.

He's like, do you have a crush on him. Oh I think I do. I'm like, I was just like, I don't know. It felt really fun. Yeah.

I like being on stage like I forgot and being back on the road. I'm like, oh yeah, I like to work and like yeah, yeah. Well, let's get started with our episode.

But speaking of you being on the road, go to That's messed Up live dot com, Lisa's links to Lisa's dates.

She's all over the place, watch night Owl.

You can listen to my other podcast that's called Who's the Bitch? I mean, what else anything else going on?

Well, Survival of the Thickest Season two comes out, oh March twenty seventh.

But that's that's that. That's still a couple away. But we'll be reminding you. Yeah, we will be reminding you to do remind me, but says coming up. But that's yeah. All right, Well let that's that's all for now.

Guys, let's get started on today's episode. All right, we are going to dive into gamb Fallacy Season fifteen, episode seventeen.

This is a Rollins heavy one. It's crazy.

It's a Rollin's heavy episode for those of you, for you Rollins heads out there. The title by the way, they never bring up in the episode. But gambler's fallacy, according to my Google search, is occurs when an individual erroneously believes that a certain random event is less likely or more likely to happen based on the outcome of a previous event or series of events. So, like, I'm

Not true, that's a fallacy.

It's just as likely to hit red every single fucking time as it, you know. And so but you know, we tell ourselves something when we're a little buzzed and having fun losing our money.

So I can't remember it.

Do we know before this episode about Rollins is big gambling or not? I like, it's hard to she has such a long tenure on the show, it's hard to like remember.

Well, not only that, there's just she's done almost every single thing right, Like her and Danny Pino joining the show was just like, let's see how much we can make these cops fuck up. And yeah, people want to like fuck them and have a like want them on the show.

Oh, in season thirteen, which is her first season. In the episode Home Invasions, she does confess that she's in twenty thousand dollars of debt with a.

Bookie, okay, and then I.

Think she does eventually go to like Gambling's Anonymous, but as we find out, soon she falls off the wagon. So we open the episode zoomed in on Rollins's face, and she looks a little sketch, you know, she's up to some shit. She's got shifty eyes. She says good night to the team, and Tomorrow's like, what are your plans? And she's like, I'm going to Niagara Falls. And I thought she's being sarcastic, but she's serious. And Finn's like, oh, you gotta go to the Canada side. That's where the

To take papers to get a dog across the border, and she's like, I'm on it Dad, but she gets really close to his face. It's flirty as usual.

But the episode where he actually is coming out of the shower at her place is later this season, so if you're picking up on vibes, that's what's happening. He offers to walk her out. He's headed to DC to Seezara. They leave, Benson walks out and goes, those two, I wish they'd get a room already.

It's like, okay, and then.

Live has a look on her face and Finn goes, I'll pretend you didn't. I didn't hear you say that. But Liv looks like pissed, concerned, like she ate bad sushi. It's hard to say. I can't tell what's wrong, but she looks annoyed to see them walk out of work together, as if that's not happened before. Then a song starts playing. It's called The Blackout Days by Fanta Graham. You know I have the captions on. That's the only reason I know.

What's up?

Is she meeting a day? Does she undercover? We don't know what's happening. Her hair is like criminally underrated. It's one of the best little messy fun news. I'm like obsessed with her hair else and I have and I have more comments on the hair. Later, she goes into some building. It's like a factory that's closed like after hours or closed down. A security guy is there. He wants her up and down. She gets let into this

They're like, why do you come with us? She's like, what's the problem.

I wasn't counting cards, and she's like, if I was counting cards, I would be I wouldn't be down fifteen K. So she's back in the hole pretty hard again. They don't want this to go down in front of all these people, and he's like, you don't want this night completely banjaxed, which is a word I've never heard or seen in my entire life, so I did look it up. It means, you know, ruined, fucked, but banjaxed, I never

This guy knows.

The song keeps playing and we hit the credits with Rollins tits out, guns points it at her. I bet Niagara Falls is looking pretty good right now. Top of act one, we're still in the back room. Rollin's shirt is now fully off, okay, like they've taken her shirt all the way off.

They're patting her down.

They obviously find her badge and she's like, I'm off duty and she goes, no gun, no wire, no worries, and unfortunately they're not down with that. He's like, bitch, you're down fifteen k standing here, half naked with a gun to your head, so yeah, you actually do have worries, like, and then he introduces himself as Declan O'Rourke, So I do. I love the idea that he just changes last names to something also irish to go undercover. Rollins is like,

And she's like, okay, cool, can I do the test with my shirt on?

And so they give her back her shirt and now she's back at the precinct and her hair looks perfect. Her hair is some hair up, some hair down, as I've always called it. And Amaro walks in and goes, what's up with your hair? And she goes, oh natural, and I'm like, it looks professionally done. What are we talking about here? Like I don't understand what's going on, but literally in the back it looks like it's clipped into this like sweet little shape. Like I'm like, I

How's your weekend? Finn goes, my.

Weekend was dope, and Amorrow asks have you noticed anything off about Rollins lately? And he thinks it's kind of shady. She never made it to Niagara Falls. It's like she changed her plans.

I don't know.

And now she's checking for parking tickets and Finn's like, you got a boner for her or what And he's like, no, no, of course not. And then Live busts in and goes, hey, gossip girls, and I do love that, and she's just like, we caught a suspect.

Move your asses.

Rollins is back now with Declan and he slaps down a dozen more parking tickets and Rollins is like, that's not my precinct, but I did find out when they do their blitzes, and he's like, I want these tickets gone. It's like you run an eily eagle gambling ring. This is truly what you're asking her to do is like fix these tickets. It's like so low stakes, Like don't you guys make it up? Pay the tickets, Like I

Robald also, I don't know, but it's also like, why does I just have the most giant budgets to just do these long undercover acting exercises.

I know?

Is it really is gambling and drugs that like I just don't get vice?

I really yeah, yeah, yeah yeah no, I like I understand, like when you're busting heroin, but then it's like we have these like cigarette operations and like gambling and stuff that it's like this just doesn't feel like it's really where the money needs to go.

And we're embedding a guy for like months and months and months.

It's crazy now Rollins is at the courthouse because she's gonna fucking do it, and she just straight up follows the juror home. I thought she was just gonna like look it up, like it's probably public, probably in some kind of police system who the jurors are. But then they she sees the juror has a kid in a wheelchair, and she opens up her ancient flip phone and she deletes the text that she was gonna send with the address. She uh gets back to the illegal club, she tells Declan, ah,

Like being dragged down, like towards the man, and that's a fade to commercial.

Back at the craps table, we've got Sondra the boss flirting with the same rich Brazilian dude who tried to buy Rollins the capirinha, and then she's like, you better mate, good tonight. My boss is getting impatient, and then she tells the waitress that guy's cut off, and when she goes into the back room, she finds Rollins and Declan looking like they're getting their clothes back on after their you know, little sexual payoff moment. Declan says she passed

He goes.

Now we know she's not undercover. Sondra tells Declan to leave. She pours Rollin's a drink and she goes, just so you know you're not gonna have to do that again, whatever you had to do, and Rollins is like, okay, cool girl power, like I work for you only now, like please let that Irish fuck know. And then they get down to the girl talk. Rollins tells her, look,

And Rollins goes, this place seems cool.

She's like, I get to smoke and drink and gamble, and I basically had to just fuck a strange man to keep my job. So this is this is great, And Sondra's like, yeah, you could do well here if you let go of your working class morality, and Rollins asks, yeah, if you can let go of my debt, and then they both laugh, but Rollins is like, Rollins is like JKJK, but also I'm kind of serious, like can you let go of my debt? And Sondra's like, you're gonna work

I don't know what's going on. Well, she's under a lot of stress. Yeah, yeah.

So back at the gambling club, Declan tells her that h Rollins that she has to take drunk Brazilian guy to his house and up the stairs, and just as Rollins is like, I'm not a sex worker, he goes, don't flatter yourself. He's not into trailer trash, and I'm like, I beg to differ. He was trying to buy Rowlins a drink, like he's very into her. Then Rollins is like,

So this is like more declan fucking up.

Rollins is now driving brazil drunk home and he's like lounging across the backseat slurring while Rollins drives. He reveals he's a diplomat, he has immunity, and he's never going to pay his debts to the club, but he owes them so much they need him and I don't really get that. I'm like, they need him for what if you don't have if you're not paying your debts, what do they need you for? I don't they need you for?

What they're doing with Rollins, you know, like favors. Yeah, that's true.

I don't know what the Brazilian diplomat could do for them, but maybe yeah. When they get to his house, his wife comes to the door and doesn't want Rolins to come in, but the husband makes up an excuse and is like, oh, she's just a receptionist from like the Russian mission.

Like we had too much vodka.

She's just taking me home and she says like, I'm just the designated driver.

The wife like like, eventually lets Rollin's in.

They bring him in, and then she's like, oh, this is a nice place and there's all this art up and the woman goes, yeah, it doesn't belong to us, it belongs to the Brazilian government. And then she goes, you can go now, and then she goes and please don't let my husband back into that club, like she knows he's that Rollins is not from a fucking Russian mission or whatever it is, Like, she's like, don't let

I'm not ready for another partner.

Finn walks out, we see Declan and one of his goons are sitting right there. They approach Rollins. She hands Declan the cash immediately and he's and she's like, maybe it's time for me to get out of this extremely dangerous situation and he's like no, Soandra needs another favor. The goon Carlos like the guy who's been with working with Declan the whole time. Is this guy Carlos and

And she's like, oh my god. She's like so much right, Like why didn't she just tell Benson.

Like this is so much worse, all this shit, I mean, we figure it out. But she asks like does he have a record, and he's like, I'm squeaky clean.

I don't even have a parking ticket.

And Declan's like okay, like see what you can do, and Rollin's looks stressed, and I can see it's like they're just testing the boundaries, like of her morality. Like at first it's like parking tickets. Like at first I was like, well, who cares about the parking tickets? I think they're seeing how far she can go, because first it's parking tickets. Then it's follow this, we went home and just get us her address and we're not going to hurt he.

We're actually going to give her money. Then it's oh man, it's a gun.

I was carrying a gun without a license, Like, I'm not hurting anybody, right, So they're seeing like how far up, how far she'll go? But literally checking out evidence is definitely a level up from the other two things. So cut to her looking incognito in a baseball cap at the evidence locker. She's keeping her head down. She shows

She looks shady as hell.

Back at the gambling club, Soandra is complimenting Rolins on a job well done. This pays off your interest at the club. I don't know if that pays off the base debt, but the interest. Carlos is like, uh so, now my DNA isn't in the system, and Rollins is like it never was. It only gets entered when there's a conviction. Sondra's like when's your next shift and like

Uh.

And there's a call and Finn writes down and address and Rollins recognizes the address and she goes, you know what, I'll take the call. You guys have been covering for me a lot lately.

And then Finn's like, I'll go with you, and then Amaro looks suspicious. He's like, because I think it's because Rollins does have It's obviously the act. It's obviously Kelly Giddish is like acting choices to like subtly telegraph that she is lying, but it seems very clear whenever she lies. And it is the house of the Brazilian diplomat, and apparently a purp used the key he pad to get in, pulled a gun, tied up the husband, and raped his wife.

Guys she's doing this.

I know he'll keep going, but like it's really weird because then she's like Rollin. But when she talks to the wife and the wife is clearly scared, it seems like Rollin's like, what, I'm just a cop, Why are you acting like this?

Like she's you know what I mean. I think she's used threatening or like what is going on?

She's trying to cover her ass because she knows she was at that house the night before and she's going to be on security footage or something. I think I think it's like a Brazilian diplomat's how she knows there's going to be camera footage. She's like, if I go, I can insert myself in the investigation and at least cover my own ass. I think that's why she's doing it, But it is it is wild that she would even yeah, go up to the lady and be like not without.

Some kind of plan, you know. Well, she also seems confused why they're all scared of for me, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So but the guy is obviously scared.

He's changing his story, like originally he said he saw the rapist face and now he's like, oh, no, the guy wore a mask. Now that he's seen Rolins, he's like, no, the guy wore a mask. And obviously he thinks the club is sending Rowlins to intimidate him. And you know, it's very scary to know that your enemies are like it, have the cops in their pockets. So upstairs, the wife is telling this other officer about her attack, and when she sees Amanda, she goes, Okay, I get the message.

I know what to do. I know what to do.

And then Rollins tries to like touch her on the leg and she slaps her hand away and starts going, I don't remember anything. I don't remember anything, and Rollins looks ashamed like she is spiralless cickets.

It's like a fuckingw it. Yeah, and it's your fault.

Rollins like, yeah, I honestly can't believes she kept her job and that we've had her on the podcast and like her like, I'm I do not forgive her for this.

It well, that's why we have to have forgiving Rollins, which is another episode later, like because she does so much bad shit that we have to forgive her. But live in Tomorrow now are on the scene. They're trying to figure out what's up. They're like, maybe they knew the assailant and they were scared of him. Rollin because the guy, the Brazilian guy, would know Carlos, because Carlos is at the club working, So it is weird he would even ever say that he saw his face.

It's kind of even weird that he would call the cops.

I'll be honest, like, because if he knows it's Carlos, he wouldn't call the cops. He's like, these people are doing this because of my fucking debts. But maybe because he has immunity. He calls for justice for his wife.

I don't know. I think it's rape and the art.

Yeah, that's true, and it belongs to the Brazilian government, so they're gonna get in trouble for that, You're right. So Rollins is like, I'll pull security footage because, like I said, you know, she's trying to cover her fucking tracks. Back at the precinct, She's running through some footage. Finn's look a looking over her shoulder and he's like, slow down, I can't even see what you're looking at.

She's like I got this, Like she's so shady.

Finn goes, well, the victim wouldn't do a rape kit, but there was semen and hair found at the scene.

Then they get a hit on the DNA Carlos Reva. Oh no, not.

Squeaky clean Carlos, and Rollins is like, sorry, if you're listening to this and you hadn't seen the episode, I did reveal that about a minute ago, and I apologize. It was Carlos, the guy who's the muscle guy from the club.

And Rollins is like, whoa are you sure?

Like what criminal would leave their jiz behind when their DNA is in the system. So it turns out that Carlos does have a record and the gun they can see the gun charge that was just dropped, but also that he has a stalking charge plea that he pled down to domestic assault from last fall. I don't know why his DNA would necessarily be in the system. Maybe if there was.

Like a physical altercation, but I think if you go to jail, you give up your DNA, not like a swab, I don't think, And.

Like, I don't know if I don't know if they do DNA. I know they do fingerprints and shit, I don't know if they do DNA. If you go to jail, I wonder. I don't know, but I wonder. But then tomorrow goes. Good thing. New York finally authorized all crimes DNA, so their act and I googled that, but I couldn't find anything.

So maybe some of our New York law.

People can get involved and tell me what's going on, because I assumed that they thought because this was like a misdemeanor or something, because it's not a felony maybe, but like now it's all crimes DNA, and so like that's why they thought that he would get away with it. Anyway, Rollins is like, oh, yawn, stretch, damn guys, I'm really sleepy. And so Finn sends her home and says me and tomorrow got it.

And then yeah, for detectives, they're really not catching on.

They kind of are, I mean, yeah, and Finn goes tomorrow.

Whatever you're thinking, don't.

So now they're at an art gallery and they're talking to some guy showing him a photo of Carlos and he's like, yeah, I don't recognize him, but like I can look into it and see maybe if he is

And I was like, I don't.

I know, We're going to get to this later, but I was like, what are you just are you shading her? Like what if she's one of the best, why don't you why don't you want her art? Anyway? Back at club no sorry, I was about to say, back at Club Rollins. Back at the club, Rollins is like you sick. Fox wanted me to clear the gun charge, so this guy could revenge rape Marcello's wife. They're certainly calling him Marcelo.

Sondra's like, she had fair warnings. So did he.

He thought he was untouchable and we had to, you know, send him a message. And Declan is pissed. He's like, this was a dumb move. I should have been consulted. Sondra's like, well, it's Rollin's his fault. She didn't get Carlos's DNA out of Cotis and Rollins goes crazy. She like rushes at her and goes, Carlos said he had no record, and Sondra just laughs and goes, he lied. He's a criminal. You should have run his name. Clean

You know.

Anyway, a little a little high for all I know, we have Irish listeners, So we're bringing up, we're bringing up your culture. And Rollins is thinking, and she's like, I need to get a DNA sample from Carlos.

So now at the lab.

Rollins is talking to friend of the pod Karen send Lee aka Emmy Susan Chung and asking her, Hey, can you run this sample on someone that our victim's been having an affair.

With it's just to eliminate him.

And Chung is like looking concerned because she does her job properly and is like, well, this isn't really going through the right channels, and Rollins is like, babe, babe, I'll get you the paperwork, like relax and just fully jeopardizing other people's careers like like slashing.

Yeah, it's like crazy that we keep having And now she's a professor like yeah, So now Amarro is talking to evidence locker guy and he's like, look, I signed it out to Megan Wheeler and then they are like, well, dude, she retired four years ago. So and on the security footage that Tomorrow's looking at, it's pretty fucking obvious it's Amanda. But then there's one shot where she looks up and

Live is like, stop digging, I'll handle this. Don't tip her off, pretend everything is normal, and Finn's like, I don't want to go behind your back, but I gotta let Rolins know what we know, like it's partner etiquette, and he goes, if this was Nick or Elliott, there's.

The magic word. There's the magic word.

He's been gone two seasons and she three seasons, and she's like, you're right, I would have definitely told him because I would have given him a kidney. So we cut to Finn and live at a bar with Rollins and they're fucking laying down the law with her. Benson is pretty disgusted with Rollins and doesn't even know if she believes that Rollins didn't know about the rape before

I just need a few hours.

So I can figure out what to do with Franny and Lives like eight am tomorrow, it's over, We're taking you in and that like that never works out whenever they go cool eight am tomorrow, see you there. We never that meeting never happens. Rollins shares a look with Finn. In the next scene, Declan is getting out of the car and Tomorrow goes up to him and Sucker punches

Know you, like Mariah Carey all the way.

She's like, I don't know you, bitch, and she's like, if you try to cut a deal, my boss will put a bullet in your brain. And the cop from the They're like, remember that cop from the twenty fourth who ate his gun that wasn't to suicide? So fuck these people are not just like gamblers trying to get rid of parking tickets. They're fucking scary psycho people. Rollins gets close to Sandra and then pulls a gun and presses it to her pregnant belly, and it's like, did

They get him to say, I actually knew it all along, but it's because I've seen this a lot.

Yeah, they get art gallery guys gun, they ask, and he goes if anything happens to that baby, and Rollins realizes that the boss man is the father of the baby, so him and Chandra are a thing, their their work and business. And then she goes nice work sister to uh Chandra, and then I think that's shady, just being like, oh, I thought you kind of like worked your way up,

Kind of know you you're not gonna get those right.

And then she wants to take Sondra with her for insurance, and Rollins is acting like unhinged and and like because at first Sondra's like, yeah, babe, let's all go. We can just all go on a little trip. It's fine. And then suddenly she gets a pain like in her stomach. She has to sit down. Everyone's worried about her. Declan grabs a gun and pistol whips Rollins across her face. She's on the ground, and then Anton, who's the name of the big boss, is like kill her.

And then suddenly you all wanted a twist.

Declan points the gun at Sondra and Anton and says, hands in the air, Lieutenant Declan Murphy, NYPD, you're all under arrest and done.

Done.

The Irish accent was fake two b B.

We did ruin this surprise for everyone. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I just think if you know the guy, you if you watched any episodes in season fifteen sixteen seventeen, like, he's all over it.

So yeah, it's like you we knew, but it is, it is.

It was a great twist, Like when you're watching this episode not having seen it, it's a great fucking twist. And this but this guy is Canadian American, but I've seen him in Sons of Anarchy also playing an irishman, so clearly Irish accents are like.

Sure, it's because he is er.

Yeah, and but he's good at the accent too, like he's killing the accent.

You know. Well, he's donal Logue. He must be Irish though, Like, but he grew up. Yeah, he's Canadian American. That's a funky name though.

Yeah, I mean his parents are Irish, so he does the accent well because his parents he went to Ireland in the Yeah.

Yeah, he was born in Ottawa.

He lived in Boston, California, and he's been studying his parents' accents. So anyway, in the last act, we opened the top of this with the tape. So obviously we knew when they set up that tape of them allegedly having some kind of sexual twist, that that tape was either gonna get out or you're gonna see a part of it. Okay, so we see the tape of when she allegedly banged or blue Declan whatever.

We didn't know what was happening, But.

What happened for real was he told her I'm not interested in whatever you're trying to offer me right now. I'm Lieutenant Declan Murphy, Manhattan, Vice. The color of the day is green. Don't forget that. That's how they id each other to each other. So now back to this IAB meeting Declan is basically like, as soon as that moment happened when I revealed myself to her, she was

That's what I mean.

Like how does Vice have these unlimited budgets forgetting I mean they're murders too, yeah, but like just get them on murder Like I don't understand these little games and full investigations.

And I wonder if, like when he's on Vice, like in a Vice investigation.

Does any enough evidence? There's not enough evidence after two years. That's crazy, I know.

I think it's like Anton, like nobody ever Sondra was always like as the boss, but he was like a shadowy figure that they couldn't figure out. And I guess putting a gun to his girlfriend's belly is like the only way we could get to him.

So but it's crazy that you couldn't figure that out.

You couldn't follow her, you could, Yeah, Like there's no way that she's she got pregnant by this guy she sees him, Like, there's no way you could have figured weaseled your way into meeting Anton after two years.

I always wonder too.

I'm like, if you're working at an illegal gambling club at night, like as an undercover, Like during the day, are you just like at your apartment doing your regular life and then you just go to work at night as undercover or do you have to be fully in like apartment like the idea.

Yeah, you have to be fully ameshed. But I think you rest in the day. I think you live that lifestyle. I don't think you're going to the office. No, but like if you had a yeah, I guess. I'm kind of like, no. Don you remember that episode Ze Wildlife where he's like I lost everything going undercover man?

Yeah?

Yeah, and Stabler's simply not calling his wife back. But that's also just Stabler, you know. I don't know if he's ever like actually allowed to slip away and go see his family, if it's a long mission, if it's two years, like I don't know, do you only get guys that have no families, no friends, no interest in their.

Regular life for two years? It's like, Wow, it's wild.

If you know any more information about going undercover, I'd love to know, please dm us.

So both of them, Declan.

And Rawlins are like, we did not know about the plan to rape the diplomat's wife, like we're sick about it. But they're like, Carlos Reva is in custody and will plead guilty to rape one and grand larceny. IAB points out that the man behind all of this is Anton Nadari and they're like, so the guy who was just profiled in the New York Times as a superstar art dealer, And they're like, yeah, art dealing is his cover. He's

Wait, what, oh my god.

It's like a ruby ring that he places down and goes His whole confession is on here, because like the guy goes to his own art gallery and goes, this is a front. I am running a criminal enterprise. We got it all on the ring. Like it's crazy. But so I don't know if I caught that really Yeah, as I went that little thing it's not even a camera. It's like a little ring hanging back, it made no sense. They're like, we're gonna get him on art theft, art forgery, extortion, rape, murder of.

A You had all that why two years.

Because they're saying Sondra is turning state's evidence. It wasn't until they got Sondra that they can get this guy and all this shit. She's selling that guy out, no problem. She's like, me and my baby are moving to the fucking multives, you know, like she doesn't care. She's ruthless.

Uh. And Declan is arguing, and that one been raped. Yeah, she doesn't give a fuck.

Yeah, And Declan is arguing that the ends justify the means. I mean, like, I don't know if I buy that, But like this poor woman who's just like a fucking wife of a alcoholic, gambling addict diplomat who probably cheats on her constantly, has to be the one that got punished. But they it did help them take down this fucking guy who's like killed cops and done all this other stuff.

A shit boy value and then he ends up being fathering a child.

Yes, everybody, yeah, just fyi, everybody. She is Billy's mom or dad? Which one is which one?

Oh?

God, now we have to look Rolin's fucking kids. Hold on, isn't is it Jesse and Billy? It's Jesse. Oh, you're right.

Jesse's the first one, so I believe Jesse is doctor. Uh the is the I thought that he was her first kid. Oh wow, yeah she doesn't have she doesn't have. The Doctor's the second kid.

Damn.

Ok yeah, Rolin's and then the and then Cariese's the third. She's got three baby daddies.

And is Donald Loga not an active father? Obviously?

No.

There's one point where he comes back and she's like, he's like, you didn't tell me, and she's like, I didn't really think you would want to, Like I kind of just made the decision for myself because people think that it's Amorro's baby. And then eventually it's like kind of revealed that it's Donald, that it's a Declan's baby, and I think He's like, if you need anything, let me know. But he's going back undercover. He's like an

The choice is yours.

Let's hope you make a better choice than like the shitty ones you've been making. Rollins wants to know how much live knows and he goes, well, I finessed it, but she's smart, so come clean and stay clean, and then he goes May the Road Rise to meet you, detective, which is part of the Irish Blessing, and they're laying on everything Irish so thick with this.

Guy, it's like hilarious.

Like later in another episode they have him in like a classic Irish like fisherman's sweater. It's like they're just really like the notes on Donald Loge's character is just like a shamrock. But when they're like handed to wardrobe, they're like, here's what this character is, an Irish man. So back at the precinct, Rollins is explaining to Tomorrow and Finn, like, this is I couldn't tell you like I had to tell Live. She had to know, so I guess Live knew the whole time, and that's why

And yeah, like this could have gone such a different way. Yeah, yeah, I could have had a yeah, blow like this dude.

Right, and then my god, thank god he was an under Oh my gosh. Yeah.

So the two crimes that she committed before she found out she was an undercover, though, is the trying to fix the parking tickets, which she it's not really like a crime. It is like she looked up where they do their like busts, and she followed the juror home, but she also didn't give them the information. So technically the only illegal thing that she did was gamble and then solicit not but like, I guess, no, you can fuck whoever you want for whatever reason you want, I guess.

I don't think I've ever seen her as mad, like, I know, outside of to.

Of herb yeah right, but to like one of the detectives and to somebody who eventually becomes like her best friend, Like it is kind of it's a it's a fun arc though, how those two move, you.

Know, But this is bad, like Rollins is bad. Yeah, I mean Rollins here, you know.

I know she just got desperate and did and like, I mean, I think I don't know how Live could ever forgive that your actions ledge with this woman being raped, Like, I don't know how she could forgive it, but.

It just seems like I'll make it like I don't know, she doesn't feel guilty and sad enough for me, Yeah, and going there and trying to investigate. Is it's fucked intimidating them at the crime scenes.

Fully, like trying to go, like trying to blow over, like tampering with evidence, like the whole case, like honestly the gun thing.

Like Carlos Reva's lawyer.

If they found out about her, as the OC could argue that this whole fucking case is fucked and that he can get off for the rate because there was a UC involved that was tampering with evidence, you know, yeah, hopefully giving his giving his semen to a fucking medical examiner. I don't think Vice would have approved all that shit, but you know, here I am with my law degree

Of this hole. What like four episodes, yeah, something like that.

I mean, she's literally fucking Nick four episodes later, Like she's literally in a in a relations like a casual relationship with Tomorrow four episodes later. So I guess everybody forgave him forget pretty quick.

All right, well, we can move right into these crimes. So this is the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum art.

Heist, which I know nothing about.

But when I saw this was it, I thought Lisa's gonna be thrilled.

I was thrilled. And you know, it's a heist. We can all deal like. It's nice to have a little heist with all the grapes. So in nineteen ninety there was a theft of thirteen artworks from this museum, Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston. They made off with hundreds of millions of dollars in stolen art. And it's coming out about thirty five years ago that this happened. And

In Manhattan, Okay.

She was known to enjoy flirting with scandal and gossip. According to CNN Style, she marries one of Boston's most eligible bachelors, and so that's how she got the gardener last name. And then he died in eighteen ninety eight, and suddenly she's like, you know what I'm going to realize, like our share dream of building a museum for all of our treasures. And it opened in nineteen oh three. There was a giant grand opening party, champagne and donuts.

Patty's Like, people are, I've been there for Saint Patrick's Day and it's fucking nuts. Wait, can I just wiggle it really quickly? Tell a story about when I went to Saint Patrick's Day in Boston. Of course I was fucked up, and I had a beer in my purse and somehow it got punctured and it started exploding all over my purse. So I got down on the street and I just dumped my whole purse out onto the street and I was just trying to like save my shit from getting soaked in beer.

And these two girls walk by, and I heard this one girl go, promise me you'll never let me get like that.

And you know what, I had a great day after that saved my shit kept going and I was in Southee. Okay, that's the most Irish fucking area to be in Boston, and.

It was nuts. That's so funny. That's it. Sorry to interrupt. I just had that thought PLoP into my head.

I love Saint Patrick's Day and just tying up two guards is like, is this a cartoon?

Is this Scooby Doo?

Yeah?

Oh, this is also the birthday of my brothers, my twin brothers. This would have been their third birthday, Okay.

And they and this guy, I mean, they took rembrands for mere about like five hundred million dollars worth, But they also took like different things.

They were kind of weird.

They took a nondescript Chinese metal vase, a bronze eagle from a top a flagpole. Five minor sketches by dig oz A, Mane, Manette, Manet Mene. I think it's just crazy that like change it like Monet, Like I don't know, it's just like kind of.

They're like, I'm gonna kind of do that too, but I'm mayne. It's a cheater brand. It's honestly a cheater brand. You cannot be tipsy girl after skinny girl.

Sorry, but the painting is the Chez Tortoni, or as I like to call it, Tordellini. And so they walked by tons of things worth millions, like jade figurines and are drawing by Michelangelo. But then they spent a giant amount of time fussing to get this vase. So it's just so really confusing. They also left behind a super prized red brand that they took down, but then they left leaning against a cabinet and then okay, so ANTHONYA.

Morey is the director of security at.

The museum now not during the heist, and he thinks that they just forgot it that red brand that was like you just.

Take down a multimillion dollar painting and you're like, fuck, do.

We forget that? That's so crazy?

But I wonder why they went for these like flagpole things and different stuff, but left to Michaelangelo like what the specific things and asked you, yeah, like it's it's interesting. They also cut some paintings out from the front, and Kelly Horn, a deputy editor of The Boston Globe, said that to even leave remnants of the paintings behind was savage and that in his mind, it's sort of like slashing someone's throat. I love that's the CNN style, so

I'm just confused.

He opened the door for them, and then no one found out about the theft until the next morning, Like they were tied up.

Oh that's right, da da da.

Yeah, so but not Also, not a single motion detector was set off, so they're like, are these people ghosts? The FBI says that eighty nine percent of museum heighs certain side jobs. No really, yeah, I mean, how like you need you need someone on the inside.

Yeah, and like kind of like even if you're like making money at a museum or you're an art dealer or anything like that, it's like the amount you could make selling one of these paintings is like astronomical. I'm sure it just like tempts people to like get involved in like the black market of it, all right, yeah, yeah, that's nuts.

Revenge or someone gets to you, like I just wonder if it's hot, like because the thieves have to manipulate you in some way and start a relationship with you or.

Yeah, you reach out, you know. Yeah.

But the director of security at the museum, Amore, he said, I'd be lying if I said it doesn't affect me. I walk by the empty frames every day.

I don't get the ones that they cut out, Like you can't resell a painting that you cut out of a frame. That feels like you're just doing it to be horrible. That's what I mean.

It's a lot of your behavior, Like they took some heavy frames but not others, like cut stuff out. But I think it's if it's an original, it's okay. If it's cut from the sides oh.

I thought maybe they were just yeah yeah in terms of like resale value, yeah, but I.

Wonder who they But like does a billionaire just keep it hidden and their basement.

I feel like you sell it overseas or something where they're not going to get you get like you get some fucking rich guy in Qatar to buy it, like no one's going to come looking for American stolen art in the Middle East, or like I'm just throwing that country out there, you know, like other places as well.

You know, I don't know. I don't know.

I just feel like or you know places where like billionaires here are such like public figures and people like know what's in their houses and they do like architectural digestors and shit like that, or you just.

Would see the art billionaire.

No, maybe not, but like they have parties, they have fundraisers, they have people in their homes that would see it. Like I think if you're just like if you own the police in the country where you live, maybe you're like who cares that's who you sell it to. I would imagine. I imagine that's who like is buying black market stuff.

I think if you have it, no matter what country are and you can't hang it up for public views or things.

Yeah, so you just like have a secret bunker gallery that you go in and just like look at your rem brands and then you go back to go up back upstairs.

One of the like craziest tice, Like if you are I just don't think you can let people know you.

But I always have wondered that my whole life. Whenever something huge, like when the Scream got stolen, I'm like, who's taking that?

Where are you putting it? Like what's the point of it?

Like if you can't look at it all the time and display it, Like I don't really get. I don't know, but I guess I'm maybe it's just the power and the that you have that you have it, you own it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they kept the frames up because it was important to Isabella that the art was displayed in her way, so nothing's been removed, rearranged or anything. They also believe that the paintings will come back, so they want to have the frames ready for them. The museum, Like our SVU squad got so many tips, emails, and a lot of the calls are people who thought they spotted the art during house showings are Zillow pictures, but those were clearly reproductions for staging homes versus.

I think that rant is in Saint Louis, Missouri, in a house that's for sale for three hundred and.

Fifty thousand dollars the museum, the FBI in the US, that's what I mean. But if these people going to house things are like, that's a stolen Rembrandt, Like, I don't think you can put it up anywhere. Yeah, nobody has ever been charged, and the statue of limitations on the theft ran out in nineteen ninety five, but the FBI says it's there's still an active investigation.

That's crazy.

You could just go steal a piece of art and keep it hidden for five years and then the statute of limitations is gone.

Yeah, weird. That's nuts, crazy, all right, that is nuts. So now I guess you can hang the paintings. Yeah, when you go to the museum, there's still a page with an active ongoing investigation, and the museum's offering ten million dollar reward for information leading to the recovery of the stolen works. Thomas Whalen, a social scientist at Boston University, say they've never had a satisfactory conclusion to it or any clue about what happened. And that's to the New

They say, yeah a more.

The security director says that an art theft has a high rate of recovery, but typically it happens generations later, when people have died and informants feel safer about coming forward. He also is reminding people that the ten million dollar reward is not for the paintings, but for information leading to the paintings. So maybe a listener has information.

Maybe you need your grandparents have some mov fucking rembrands hanging up.

And you would only have to give us like a half a million dollars. Yeah, just for telling you about it.

Yeah, just a.

He also says usually the stolen paintings stay local, so if it was taken in America, it stays in America. But I think that's like ignoring you know, private planes. Yeah, I think I could do whatever I want. But the email is theft at i SGM dot org.

So anybody have any tips c se us. Yeah, that would pot at gmail.

That would be huge for our podcast if we were able to crack. Yes, yes, that is my goal now because it's not like we'd be harassing like humans and thinking we could do police work.

You know, there's like ethical stuff with that. Yeah.

Though I would love to solve a crime. Are you kidding? But this would be a fun one for us. Yeah, just everyone, Yeah, everyone would be happy. Okay, now we have we do have murder though. So this is the murders of Prince Teddy Ktkar and Princess Nineshka Ketcar another nineteen nineties crime. April nineteen ninety three, a Park Avenue couple with the titles of nobility from India and connections in Manhattan social circles were found dead in their home.

And she was married to a shoe.

Manufacturer guy named Max Hoffman for ten years and lived in this apartment with him. So she was like wealthy on her own and the neighbors called them the Prince and Princess, even though there were suspicions of their actual nobility, and like they just called him Prince Teddy. But some of his social life friends were like not really believing a lot.

He was caught level of delusion. That's really fun. Yeah, that's really fun. Like I need to be called Prince Teddy. I mean, it's truly Countess Luanne.

It's count that she you know she I guess she had the receipts the Suez Canal and all that.

Wait, what about the canal?

She's like my husband's family, they're the count and countess because like my husband is a count because his family, his ancestors like founded the Suez Canal or something or conquered it or I don't know. That's but she would like people in a really condescending way in her early seasons before she truly found out who the real luandeleiseps is, which is a smoking, drinking, cabaret singing star that was beautiful but.

He was so this but he was successful, well groomed, and they lived a really rich, fun lifestyle. Some say he was all talk, but whatever. So a maid arrives to clean the apartment discover the bodies and notified the doorman, which when you just call the cops, but I guess you didn't touch evidence.

I don't know.

The husband was in a pool of blood, laing face down, bleeding from a neck wound. The princess was on her back on the floor of the bedroom. She had no marks on her body, no wounds, both fully clothed, and the sixth room apartment was in disarray, no evidence of forced entry as well. At first, investigators didn't know if

Damn.

So yeah, they killed two other people.

So they were brought back for like four murders in New York and they found them because they were using the victim's credit cards, which is the dumbest thing ever and kind of an easy way to track, right, Like I don't understand.

Yeah, yeah, but in the nineties, like in the nineties, when you.

Did your credit card, it was the thing, like it was the thing that like that did it.

On carbon copy.

So then by the time you like the store reports, it's like they probably had time to get away, like they'd be a couple, they could be a state away by the time they fucking got the credit company card to say it's not the right charge or whatever.

Okay.

So, but they were having a fun time like charging the credit cards, and then they got into a fight and George called the police. So these two guys, so one of the so it's George Cabo he's fifty six years old, and Tony Lee Simpson who's twenty one years old, and they are lovers. They're a coup ah. Okay, so they're a couple. They're having fun in Vegas. They get into a fight, George calls the police and goes Tony did everything. And as soon as they're caught, Tony's like, actually,

And then the other was like, oh.

Yeah, actually this is why you don't come at crimes with a romantic partner. You just too many emotions get in the way and one of you ends up just ratting on the other one.

Yeah, so you know they killed those guys. And then the additional crimes were the murder of Eric C. Prince and Milton A. Seltzer in their West End Avenue apartment one month sooner, Oh my gosh. And the those two murders were full blown to capitations. Oh now these are sikohs Oh my god. So January twenty third, nineteen nine.

I'm honest, I'm surprised that Ryan Murphy's not has not made a series about them yet.

Well, there's not it's not famous enough. I don't think a may a lot of research.

Like I'm May December, like gay couple going on a killing spree.

That's right up his fucking alley. We got to send it to.

Him because even for like I had to read the the court like report to find out their sentences. Like there wasn't even articles about it. Oh wow, Like I had to scroll through court documents. Yeah, it's like for some reason, I mean even the New York Times was like not a lot. There's just not a lot, but the decapitations and then the like wealth of this other couple, I'm shocked it wasn't a bigger deal. Yeah, but Georgia in nineteen ninety five got a hundred year prison sentence.

There must have been some evidence that he was really the doer, like they're like right, there had to have been some evidence, like maybe his height or something about him, that he was the doer and that the other guy was just kind of like accessory and was like involved and helped with all of it. But like, yeah, because that doesn't make any sense to me. The only difference between them is their age, Like Cabo is the older ones.

Maybe they thought he was the mastermind. I have no idea, but.

I'm wondering if Simpson is eligible for parole because it's been you know, I've been looking.

I couldn't find this, what I mean, like, I wasn't able to really find anything.

Oh crazy, all right, but wow, but I don't know if it's because the name is also a hard name.

Yeah, Tony Lee Simpson, it's not. Yeah, maybe it's Anthony.

I don't know. Wow.

These are kind of juicy, both of these crimes. Thank you for giving us all the research because I did not really know about either of these at all.

No, but they are, especially the museum one with that many millions, Like, that's pretty crazy.

It's also crazy that thirty five years have gone by, or twenty five years, thirty years or so. Yeah, five thirty five years have gone by, and like no one wants the reward, no one's stepping forward, Like it's kind of.

Not well and hopeful. I wonder if we'll be alive when the paintings are found.

Yeah, yeah, all right, Well we've got a great guest, so don't go anywhere. Oh my gosh, you guys today. Our guest is a truly beloved film and television actor. You may know him from shows like Vikings, Sons of Anarchy, Gotham, Grounded for Life, movies like Jared Guire Blade Zodiac, but you know him and you love him as the man trying to win an oscar for his undercover performances. Declan Murphy, Lieutenant Declan Murphy, please enjoy our chat with the amazing Donald Log.

There's been no one that does so many undercover characters as Declan Murphy.

But back to back.

It's like he's a pedophile in the cell. He's speaking an accent here. I mean, you got to like do so many different characters in such a short amount of time.

That was just Warren. Warren like like he knew he knew that. I like that he wanted to try that. So yeah too. It was so fun.

Now when we meet you in The Gambler's Fallacy, did you know there was going to be an arc that you were going to be back or was this like a.

One way Yeah.

The breakdown of it was, I'd come back from doing Vikings and I had a meeting with this amazing guy named renou Heller who created Rome and the Mentalist, and he was doing this show called Gotham, and so I had a meeting with him and they were like, we're just starting to set the cast. We'd like to start, you know, we'd like to make this character the first one we start with. Would you be interested in doing it?

To hear this, We love that you've done.

I mean it was it was exciting. Yeah, like and

I watched that in high school.

That was one of my shows, and it made this really weird move from Box to the WB And there there was a whole contractual thing where you can kind of you can get if you want, and you know that there are like two hundred people and families that are supported by the fact whether this ship is floating or not. Yeah, And there's a responsibility to the crew, and there's a responsibility to your bosses. And if you're on something that's it's like the Discovery Channel like in

We've also heard that they shoot like rain, shine, snow, whatever, like they're doing it outside no matter what.

And you shoot in New York all the time. Other show is not like that.

No, they're all like that. It's honestly, it's honestly, like can get tricky because I I know on Gotham, you know, because Gotham had this vibe of being at night, and so there was a lot where it was like on a bridge in February in its minus twenty five, and there's there's a physical element to it. Because I never I got sick on Gotham, but I never missed work. But there are things where you're like inevitably you get

But that's it. Oh my gosh.

You know, I've never personally, I've never missed five minutes of work in thirty six years, never never called in sick, pro bones whatever it was. Wow, but that's what. That's what.

Where'd your break a bone? The vikings on Terriers?

I broke my shoulder, and on this slow budge indie movie I broke my ankle. Oh, but it was Terriers was weird because it was the last day of the second episode and I just snapped this bone toward my laborm and snapped this bone. It's called And then I knew I was super screwed, and we were all super screwed because I had to be in every scene. And

Can I ask you a question about Gambler's Fallacy? And this is so funny because sometimes I think that you're an Irish actor because you are. You do add Irish accent, and I actually you came into my consciousness directly, even though I'm sure I've seen you in a million other things through Sons of Anarchy, and in my mind you were one of these Irish guys on Sons of Anarchy, but you weren't in Sons of Anarchy. I was just

Or was that always part of it? It was always part of it, okay, And it's really hard and in fact, there was a show I did called Sisters with Sarah Goldberg who is from Barry and this woman Susan Stanley from Ireland, and we did season one in Ireland and I played their Irish dad, And now season two's going down and I have to say, my parents are Irish, yeah, and they're from a very specific corner of Ireland.

And the accents are so difficult that one I vaguely know because it's my parents' accent and my uncles and my cousins, and like, if someone said you have to do a Dublin accent, I couldn't. I absolutely couldn't. Or Northern Irish or Cork or there are so many specific accents and so I had to bring it to a part of the country where I vaguely but it's still it's so hard.

Also, I wanted so Dan Florik was our first cast member guest so thrilling, but he said, being the captain feels like you are a traffic guard, like a crossing guard, because he's like, you're just always bossing everyone where to go.

I feel like you had more. But did you ever feel that way?

No, because I never inhabited that role and I wasn't there long enough for it, And then we had these special, weird episodes that kind of existed outside of what probably would have felt that way if if I had stuck around. But I do feel that there was something. By season fifteen, it seemed like there was legitimate concern about whether they were coming back. And this was some years before they This was some years before well Maloney you know.

Was Yeah, it was like a big shakeup, So that makes sense.

But that was this was seven, when Wind.

Twelve after twelve, so then fourteen fifteen, Yeah, it was just like.

This thing that happens where it's just political and it's weird and it's television. And there was something about that season fifteen that there was like some gas on the fire. There was something special about that run in when I was when I happened to be around SVU, I felt like it was crackling and.

Well you Rolins being a bad girl, you know, there was there's like a lot of term within the department.

And I will say, you know, I've worked with a ton of amazing people, but there are times where I'm in the middle of a scene and I can think of times I can think of a time with Vincentinoprio and this thing called Steal this movie. I can think of different times in the middle of a scene with someone, and one was with Kelly and where I was like, I'm so glad this person has chosen to do what they are doing with their life for a living because

I love it, and as a viewer, were relieved that Rollins didn't have to like go down on this guy.

We're like, right, and I tell people like that pushed this long orders for you land so far because when he's pressing record on me, you know, and it's like you assume that it went this dark and then it worked and then for him to go look and it was so great because he can come in and say she helped, she helped stop this, She helped. Yeah, but

Is totally how was this?

He's like talking about himself in third person, He's like, defly Murphy believes in redemption. Wait, but speaking of being amazing at what they do, I really really need to ask you.

We got to ask you about the scene.

We just covered this episode a few weeks ago on the podcast Thought Criminal, where you are in the cell with Kevin from the office. I believe the actor's name is Brian Bryan, but yeah, brought baumb gardener something and you just pissed yourself. You're undercover as another pedophile and then you piss yourself.

You are like the.

Oscar winning undercover cop of the NYPD, because that's.

What I was mentioning, because at that episode two you were a high end photography enthusiast pedophile. Then you're this like piss your pants like every socioeconomic pedophile you can get, and then you were an Irish Knitz sweater.

Oh lonely guy, Yeah, lonely guy.

On Vaca, I went, I was just back in Ireland and we still have a house in kemmy Kerry, and I was in this kind of quills, you know, Aaron sweater shop, and the women were like law and order, law and order, lawn order. And then they said everyone in Ireland was so bummed out about like he's wearing the big Irish knit sweater. And I'm like, I understand, but I will say the craziest thing and it's not it's it happened yesterday. I'm in Boston now for a few weeks. But the street love and had I stayed

What are you doing in Boston right now, Donald, what are you? Are you on a project?

Oh yeah, it's my girlfriend just moved into this apartment in Cambridge.

Oh so you're not You're not on a project there right now, You're just visiting, Okay.

I always, I always felt like I was more of a Boston person than a New York person. And I really I did time here. I did years here when I was a little kid in college, and then I did my years in New York. But Boston is Boston's produced spectacular.

Well, the big Irish community.

Maybe you felt like the Irish love in Boston.

I felt the Irish love. I felt the Irish awkwardness in Boston because my parents we came here when I'm in nineteen in the in the late sixties, and they were Irish immigrants, like a lot of Irish immigrants do. But there was a huge community here where where people are very Irish American. But it's like a hunt that it's one hundred and fifty years removed from when ancestors came over, and it's that weird. It's a different Irish

Robert John Burke.

Oh, Robert John Burke. We love him. He did our podcasts. We love him.

We talked to him for a while.

We do want to go to Fire Island and the.

House is phenomenal, and he's the.

Oh my god, he's.

My blood, he's my brother brother. And we met and like.

The listeners are gonna wait, and one of you has a character that was in love with Robins, and the other one has a character that was in love with Benson, and they're like sisters on the show.

This is all coming.

We also met in n like we met in nineteen ninety two. We were gonna go do We worked on this Oliver Stone movie called Heaven and Earth in Thailand, and I thought he was like the coolest dude of all time. And he's older than me and his parents are from Ireland like mine. And he's just the greatest.

I don't know.

And I'm like, Robert, why the fuck are people so competitive with you about your male friendships? You know? And but that was one thing that was sad because we talked about that because there was there was some discussion and the I'm like, of course Marishka would fall like who wouldn't fall in love with Robert Burke. Like that guy's he's like Gabriel Oak from far from the madding crowd, Like he just is as solid. He's an amazing actor too,

Hall yeah, and I was like, bet, it's the obsession. Yeah.

I'm like yeah, I'm like, lock, I get to I get to Like we were both like, holy shit. You look at our journeys since nineteen ninety two when we first sat that cool and all of them and Robert Burke's this buddy I have. We it's called like we do this. I don't know why it started in Bencok, but we'd have this kind of debrief about each other's lives over Turkey club sandwiches and I can measure through the birth of our children and good things and difficult

So that's so cool. Wow, I can't believe. And god we got that that we got to that, Oh my god. No.

We loved talking to him so much, like he was the best and like he got tierry talking about his mom, Like he was so open with us and like he was just such a great, great guest.

Zodiac.

What was it like working with David Fincher and then you co wrote Danny Trejose memoir.

So that's all we need to know about both of those things very quick.

I knew David super like. I knew David from just kind of around, and I did before the MTV Cab Driver. I did these weird like Rock the Boat spots or something with David Fincher as he's school MTV commercials or whatever. I think he's the greatest, And I yeah, Zodiac was. I think Zodiac is the best film I've ever been in.

And we've kept you for an We've kept you for over an hour. And what we could honestly have a part two with you.

Is so right to talk to your Do you have something?

Do you have anything coming up that you want people to look out for?

No, I just yeah, if I can leave it with anything, It's just about the quality of human beings that everybody at that place, and I'm talking about everybody and every single sling in department like that's and it wouldn't and it wouldn't go any other way, Like you couldn't wander into law and order SDU and not be a cool person and have it. It's like it regulates. There's no, it's not allowed, you know. And they're just yeah, they're

Your friends and your decades long friendships. That's like an accomplishment and cool thing as well.

Yeah, it's the most important thing, right like is to have yeah for us, Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I love that.

You Robert Burke our best friend. That is like the funnest thing ever. Robert John Berke, Sorry, Robert John Berke. Is there anything you want to Is there anything you want to plug before?

There's no like the only I'm doing a book because of the Danny book, but it'll take forever. And the business is so weird and it's just changing so radically, and it's pretty fascinating. I mean, they're always going to be making stuff. It's just yeah, I think unfortunately for people I started in nineteen eighty nine out of Boston, I've been a you know, I got my SAG card, I've worked in that business. I've maximized my union credits in terms of pension blah blah blah, like I had

Seriously, it was so great to talk to you. Donald Bye, Donald, thank you.

Well that was incredible. Oh my god, somebody I've wanted to meet. I think since day one. I do bring up grounded for life, yes, more often than not, and I'm like, yeah, it was also nice. I watched all nine of his episodes in prep for it, and it wasn't It was really funny for me to see all the undercovers in.

Rapid like that.

It's like, this motherfucker is just like a trunk full of costumes.

Yeah, but I just like love. I don't know, I love that guy. He works so much, he's so appreciative of his career, Like he seems like he loves everybody he works with. I mean, I think, I don't.

I just I was happy to get one of Rollin's baby Daddy's you know what I mean, Like that's a get that's a get for us.

Yeah, I mean, Rollin's the fact that she has a job at all, and as a professor, like the fact that that bitch has a pension.

And not in jail Like I cannot, I cannot.

It is one of the wildest stretches of the imagination that s FU makes us, makes us participate in, Like this whole episode is so crazy.

Like just that she's but she had us too, like just having that sort of twist handed like you know.

Yeah, well like also, well, I mean we forget that, like whatever happened when the video camera came on, Rollins was ready to get down on her knees, like she was ready to fuck this guy to keep her career and keep her life.

You know.

So you do get a sense of, like she is very good at conveying I think the rock bottomness of gambling addiction, and like any kind of addiction where you're just like, Okay, I guess I one bad decision to try to fix the last bad decision, stacked on top of each other forever, you know, Like but this time I think maybe it's stuck.

I don't know.

It feels like she doesn't gamble anymore now, now that she's got three kids.

No, I don't think she.

I think Cariese's keeping her on the straight and narrow, and I think.

I think she learned. She might, you know what I mean.

It's just it because I was about to say she's learned for good, but I'm like, she might have actually had more past this, Like I don't remember the order of her transgression, but I also don't know if this is pre your post, like lying for her sister, and I mean, yeah, she's lying all the time. Tomorrow's killing unarmed black teens. We have Benson covering for her brother.

My full cast SVU sweatshirt.

People probably assumed I had some sort of emotional problems, like the fact that I'm wearing the sweatshirt watching the show. I'm like, and then I met a baby in a Miss Rachel shirt and I'm like, oh, okay, I am I'm a baby. Well that's it makes sense.

When Jared gold See was just like, you're a fucking nerd.

I can't believe you don't know that, And then I'm sitting there in a nice sweatshirt on the show being like, Wow, I'm a nerd.

I'm a nerd.

I don't think you're that big of a nerd. Well, you're a nerd over certain things. Everybody's a nerd over some shit. You're a Luigi nerd, that's for sure, I know. And John Love it was not fully having it. He's well, his listeners, I don't know, he's gotta be like.

You know, but he said it.

He actually was pretty clever because we obviously I brought you up in Jared like the two people I know that goes to his holiday party, so I was like, oh, we have mutual so we brought the podcast up, and then I also with Luigi, I was just like, well, you know, Ariostour's done, so now we all have a new thing. And then once we start talking about the podcast, he goes, oh, you like mysteries, He goes, you like secrets, mysteries, figuring stuff out, and I go, yeah, you really figured

Well, the thing with the sv too is like the first half of the show is usually mysteries, and then the second half is like a justice system that will never be real, you know, like the feeling of the feeling of fulfillment of a of a criminal getting.

With Sometimes the mystery never ends, you know, in the second part. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

But back to this episode. Also, I really loved these two crimes. I mean I didn't love I don't love crimes. I don't love anyone getting murdered. But I had never heard of these two nineties crimes of like this big art heist and this like murder of this prince and princess, like.

Carrie, you won't even believe this. I was out socially. I was actually at the Hermiceo. I went to the Hermiceo to make some of our friends, and someone brought up the museum. I got to like, flex, yeah, it's so fresh in my brain because sometimes the thing's going out or I can dup it some pieces, but it was like so fresh in my brain that I got to yeah.

Kind of see.

Yeah, the similar situation, we were all sitting around the dinner table in New Hampshire, me and my camp girls, and somebody goes, you know what I just found out about this guy in Austria, FRITZL And I go, get the fuck out of here right now. I know every single fucking thing about this guy that you'll ever need to know. Like, like she was trying to tell the story, I go, are you seriously gonna sit here and tell the story in front of me?

Like okay?

Like it was, Oh my god, the movie theater by my house is playing Silence of the Lambs.

Ooh, I would love to see Sons of the Lambs on the big screen.

I never have. That is cool. That is really cool.

All right, all right, how we could help.

Let's get to our Yeah, let's get to our What would sister Peg do this week? For what Sister peg Do, which is our weekly segment where you guys know, we direct you towards uh an organization and article, a book, a doc something to give you more info about what that today's episode was about. And we'd like to point you to the National Council on Problem Gambling. This organization is the only national nonprofit organization that seeks to minimize

Thank you so much.

For that, and it is yeah local, I love that, I like it being a hub. Hooked season six, Episode fifteen, Get at It Motherfucker's huluc.

VP.

Guys, thank you so much for listening and keep sending us episode requests on our Instagram or anywhere.

And uh yeah Jack, we'll get more ga, we hear you. We'll get more guests. And I loved everyone typing to David Lynch. It made me so happy.

Yes, thank you for the David Lynch heads.

You guys will listen. Yeah, all right, we love you with see you next week. Bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.

To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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