Futility

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

We're coming to you live from Atlanta, Georgia, and here we do SVU. We talk true crime and because of the strike, we do not have any guests, but no fear. We're Virgos and we will continue talking. And it is Virgo season. Oh actually, as this as this releases, it's.

Not Virgo season anymore. It's Libra season. Damn.

Well yeah, but we are the forgotten Sign. If I'm being honest, Libra's like I remember playing a game where you have to name a name whatever, like you have to name all fifty states, and I always forget Connecticut. Now that you're in my life, I wouldn't, but I feel like Libra is the Connecticut of sign. Just like, what are you even about just hanging out there middle Fall?

You mean nothing?

They have that Libras are the scale, right, so are they? Like supposed to be balanced people.

I don't know. Oh, I guess we love justice on this pod. That's true. Oh my god. Svu is a Libra. That's so wild.

Okay, no, because it's beard on your birthday, my birthday. So s few is a virgo. Yep, fuck that s Few was born on my birthday. And we are coming to you live right now from not live, very unlive in the time machine.

We are coming to you from Atlanta.

Lisa and I are in a suite that has two bedrooms, and we are just in different rooms recording the podcast right now. I thought you guys might like to know that I can literally hear her echo outside of the room as she speaks. But last night we got into Atlanta early and we went swimming.

Oh yeah, at a at a.

Pal's pool, and I think I had a special connection with the Black Lab, if we're being honest, she.

Did Like this Black Lab was like, oh, this girl came to play and just did ninety thousand belly flops into the pool. Every time Lisa dove into the water, the Black Lab was like, yes, bitch, and like followed and jumped on top of her. It was wild. I've never saw Yeah, that. The people were like, oh, he will continue flopping until his paws bleed. Yeah, that's saying that the fur on his belly is gone because he cannot stop belly flopping. That he goes into the pool

We were in his worlds. He's like, what are these bitches doing?

Yeah, and he had this little chew toy that was a piece of brie. Right, it was like a little wheel of brie. So we kept throwing the bree to him. Time's funny to do something so much that, like your humans have to take you in because your paws are just bleeding, but you just can't stop.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know if there's anything I would continue doing until I was full of leaving, just bleeding and bleeding my body. No, couldn't be me. I guest smoking weed. But even then, my pawbeds are doing good.

You know.

Your little paws are intact. Yeah, oh I want Oh sorry, what about the flight. Oh, it was a fun flight.

And I loved being the gen Allians of the group in business class and watching you walk right past me. And I love that there's now a reference, like it would just be like, oh, I'm in first class and now I can go, oh, I'm just gonna be a little gen alliance today.

Like that, she's come at us strong.

I always love when the women of Real House has are a new franch or anything, they think they're gonna spin it and not be the villains. Like they thought we would all hate Jenna because she's rich and in first class, and instead we're like, leave her alone. Yeah, this is real House says of New York, if you're confused by it. And they all got mad at this

Can you imagine?

It was like one of the most manufactured, boring storyline things I've ever seen. Like I think maybe a long time ago people would have cared about that. I think maybe like the Ramota bethany days, people may have cared, but it's like, I just don't think anybody cares about that.

Kind of thing.

They were not separate flights. They care though, Yeah, I don't think it's manufactured. I think these bit are truly like jealous of her. They want to they think they're equal to Jena Lions. They're they're not self aware. They're delusional. They're delulu. That's a new word I learned. They're delulu. They're a little bit delulu.

They so.

I just as I opened my phone this morning, there's an article in the cut about Gena Lions and she has about like whether she could still form a beauty brand without ruining her reputation since going on The Real Housewives. I think she can because I think she's coming off very well on the show.

And she said an interesting thing.

Now of course I can't find it, but it was something along the lines of like, I'm twenty years older than these women, like I have spent a really long time like thinking before I speak, like trying to be professional, trying to be a boss, and then these like thirty six year old women come on the show and are just like why, Like, so, she's not going to be

It's like they're just like, honey, we're not posting her stuff for free. And it's like she was the head of j crew and work there for twenty seven Who do you think you are? She's remodeling Rockefeller Center, Like, I just don't get Sometimes someone is better than you, and it's it's better to admit it than to fight it and go.

How is the Four Seasons Jenna? It was honestly worse than her house?

How about that?

Like she's Jenna Fucking Lions and she's coming off stylish.

I want to know everything she's doing at every moment.

I don't believe she says shy and goody goody, because I've heard stories of her in the boardroom. Right, So yeah, this whole like I've never been on a girl's trip. It's like you've never been to Dinah Shore. I don't buy it. I don't buy it.

That's so true.

JFL used to stand for Just for Laughs Comedy Festival, but now Jenna Fucking Lions. Everyone's use it, throwing JFL around everywhere. I was wondering how you're gonna connect to the festival. Is what happened right now. But we took a turn. Wait, speaking of taking a turn, I don't. I just want to shout out a friend of the pod. If you came to our very first LA show, he sold you merch. My dear friend from high school, Jed. He listens to the pod. He just had a surprise

Oh my gosh.

I sort of love the idea of like a phone line, like a Google voice line for the pod, and people just call of us and text us. They tell us our secrets in their DA and the dms. We get some secrets loose on the insta. I guess a more not fun thing, but also good. Danny Masterson getting thirty years is I've heard of, because no one gets thirty years. It's usually like, did you rape a family, here's a

If you didn't do it.

Yeah, And there must have been like a lot of proof because this is that is a sentence. That is quite a sentence, And I guess we learned a lesson. Do not write character letters for rapists who cares if they're your friend or sibling or cause what are you talking about? You fucking yeah, somebody like this guy I follow on Instagram that I love, Matt XIV. Oh yeah, yeah, they have this great Instagram and I always love what

Know, behind in the woods. Yeah, yeah, you know.

There's a reason it's pastors. There's a reason it's people that are really nice on set, you know. But their apology was so wild because in it they're like, we just thought this was for the judge.

It's like, oh so secret.

Okay, No, they seem like more like especially her, she seems annoyed to even have to be talking about it, like, Okay, we support victims, and we thought it was for the judge. Okay, so stop it, like we support, We're not trying to invalidate what they said. And it's like you are and your attitude is weird. You stood up for a rapist, Like, I don't know why you're not more ashamed? Annoyed is not the right.

A adjective culture has an organization that literally fights shady.

It's shade is well, it's not shady.

I'm sure he's done amazing work, but it's a tech company. It's a FA facial recognition software that works in helping victims of human trafficking, but I think it does fuck over sex workers as well. He has saved young girls, that is great, But remember the SVU with that the guy who is helping the and he wanted he pretended to want to have sex with Olivia Benson and he was like, my sister's dead. I must fight all the pedophiles. But with Steve Tabolowski, Oh right, right, what episode is that?

So no, I don't.

I think they're I think in the organization and is great. I think he is trying to save children and people from human trafficking. But it is a software company. You never trust the rich like you never trust the rich.

And then it's also like the George Clooney of it all, where it's like, I don't trust a pranker.

A branker, Yeah you did punked.

I'm not trusting you a prank Once in a while, it's the right moment. Oh she's coming back, let's all hide.

But someone that's like Ellen Ellen is another notorious pranker, like not to be trusted.

Don't trust the franker. They're sociopaths.

They don't feel anything, so they need to like scare people to feel anything, and they like being in control of your emotions. Don't trust someone that's like a dick to There's actually someone at the comedy club at before Matt and this motherfucker, I don't trust him anymore because this is he'll pull these things where he'll go, what are you doing?

They just called your name on stage and so then you just start running like a crazy person. And yes, I'm kidding. And no matter how much you know he does this shit it like he is so good at it.

He will just say stuff that isn't true you believe it or reactor start running and then he'll laugh And I'm like, oh, okay, so you've committed crimes, right, you keep the secrets, you punk and you punk bitch. I did watch Punk. I liked watching justin Timberlake, cry should should we start this?

Yeah?

Start, But before we get going, let's just remind you of sas. We gotta tell the people we are coming to you very soon. Buffalo on the eighth of October, new Haven, Connecticut on the tenth of October, Burlington on the twelfth of October, then a few days later we got Cleveland on the eighteenth, Boston on the nineteenth. Boston, gets your asses out there. We are playing a very large venue and we need but in the seats. And then Ronto for the first time on the twenty fourth,

Okay, here we go.

We're doing Futility season four, episode twenty two, and we're starting at a poker night. Love that they're playing Texas hold them. Love that even more. And it's the Wonder Years actor. And he is being nuzzled on by a woman during the game, so that's cute. He's wearing a wedding band, so you know they're probably married. And I love wardrobe and storytelling. Very cool and his and his name is Fred Savage. I will be calling him multiple

Right yeah.

And then I think only one of them is a rapist, right yeah, but you guys can guess which one.

I guess. We're not allowed to.

Say, well, because it's alleged or what. I think it's alleged. I don't know if it's rapist. It's like me too, he got like me to I think he was inappropriate at work. I don't know if he actually went.

Well did I tell you?

No?

But did I tell you?

At the comedy store, I was doing a joke and someone yelled I don't know if I've talked about on this show. This was like last month, but someone from the audience yelled out, you've never been dick raped?

Did I not tell you to you?

Yeah?

I was on stage.

I was doing like my false rape accusation joke or whatever, just knute the backs or whatever.

I was working.

I was working on a bit, and some dude just yelled out, whatever, you've never been dick raped? And so I just said, oh, you have to go, and so I kicked him out, like I that's not even I don't know what he meant by it, and I wasn't gonna find even the whole audience was like, ugh, no one liked it. And then one of the door guys who's a comment, came up to me after and he said that it took five security guards to make this guy leave.

He would not leave.

And I also, usually I like dealing with Heckler, but it was just like, I can't even deal with you. But I guess when they were kicking him out, he said, what what's wrong with yelling to a female comedian about dick rape? Like he didn't understand, And then they found his scariest part, and then they found him tweeting about the comedy store and he wrote, I just got kicked out of the comedy store for yelling dick rape, and then he used the emoji of like the shrugging of the shoulders.

Like huh. I don't get it.

Like you can't say anything in this world anymore, you know, these libs.

You just can't say anything.

You can't yell at a woman you've never been dick raped. I don't even know what it means. It was very wild. I mean, oh, yeah, misconduct on the former, Yeah, allegations of misconducts whatever. So there's tons of articles I'm looking at the Times they have a look a closer look. At the end of the day, I didn't want to give them time because it's just like, I don't care, you know, if you're if you're fucking up and not treating women right.

Well, I do think that this one, I'm glad we're addressing it because I do think this one flew under the radar, and I wouldn't want people to be like, oh, we thought you'd get Fred Savage as your guests, because we're not. We're usually not really having people with uh misconduct allegations on the pod.

Yeah, and I guess I mean the La Times says that they've been dealing with accusations of inappropriate behavior on set since he was sick.

Because he went from an actor to a director.

He's directed a lot of episodes of Modern Family, like he's I think more so has been focusing on directing in the later part of his career than on acting. Though he was in a great show called The Grinder that I was obsessed with with Rob Low that did not get its true flowers.

I feel in the television business. It was such a funny sitcom.

With where he plays a lawyer Rob Low plays his brother who's an actor who's played a lawyer, and he like moves back to the town and starts to be a lawyer.

It's really funny. I always wild.

I didn't realize some of the suits go back to like nineteen ninety three, ninety four. I thought it was like some of these are And then twenty eighteen, speaking of the Grinder, someone worked in the wardrobe department on The Grinder sued him too ooh, and that it was alleged to salt and battery by the actor and he was aggressive, intimidation, constant use of profanity aimed towards female employees.

Yuck. Helloa.

One was that he violently struck her arm three times and asked her to brush dandruff off the shoulders of his suit. He says, untrue, these are no merit. I mean, obviously the case was dismissed.

Whatever.

If you want to know more information on him, obviously you know the la times.

You guys do it.

Yeah, that's why we're doing the episode. And we can't have guests if you're wondering, because we're not gonna have him.

Yeah, all right, So that was a nice aside and hopefully none of you are mad at us, but I can I see it coming, all right, So buzz buzz. Someone's at the door of this apartment with the poker game and the Wonder Years. Guy goes to open it, but it's really choppy sounding on the intercom, so he's like, oh,

Is Chinese too.

I didn't know why because this is also old and I feel like back in the day, the only things you really got delivered was pizza or Chinese.

Right, And if it was pizza, you'd see the box, right.

Yeah.

Now, I mean you can get a fucking bubble tea delivered, but back in the day it was way more limited.

I mean, maybe a diner, you know, maybe.

Sending you your birthday cupcakes was actually the first time I ever sent anything with Postmates that wasn't like food, like just regular food. You know, I like never sent a gift or anything by that, so you can really do anything these days. Yeah, I well, because the funny thing, I didn't include the card, so I didn't.

I was not happy with them. They did not include the card.

But what I loved about getting those cupcakes is I always send those cupcakes to everyone, but I never taste them. So I got to finally taste all the flavors I've been sending people all these years, So now for you, baby. So it was exciting. But he so he decides that he's gonna still pick up the food, even though this is obviously creepy, like the food is away from your door, no one is there.

Boo.

It's Stabler and Benson and he's under arrest and Finn. He's confused why he's being arrested and assures to them like, oh, you got the wrong guy. Benson goes, it's rape. You're being arrested for rape, and then he punches her in the face.

Oh my god, fucking crazy.

Your toast, dude, is the whole reason they're doing this little like ruse because of that whole thing that we've talked about before where you can't be arrested in your own house or something.

Yeah, correct. I just don't get that.

I feel like I've seen them show up at other people's houses and say you're under arrest before.

But maybe it's more of a warrant situation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, or no, it's usually at a banquet, it's usually at an event.

Yeah, it's not enough way.

They're not arresting people in the home unless they're actively doing it. But yeah, I don't know, but I think that's why ruse for sure. Yeah, and he decides to punch Benson in the face. The wife runs out and says, what are you doing? That's my husband. And it's like, okay, well, I guess we'll stop arresting him since that's your husband.

We don't care, we don't know you know him. He just cold cocked a cop, you dumb bitch.

Yeah.

He tells her to contact their lawyer, and as he's carried away, she asks, why are you arresting him? And Stabler turns around and says, your husband raped four women. Finn says, your dinner is here, it's on the NYPD love that her mouth is open. She is stunned and I'm wanting some sweet and sour chicken. Okay, but I think this is what I wrote here. I think that sushi is the best poker food because it's chopsticks, no hands, no mess, easy compact, Like you're not gonna get grease on the cards.

It's and nothing's gonna drip. And that's why we're having sushi the first night we're going to Vegas.

Yeah, because I don't want to get any grease on my poker chips.

Wait when does this episode air right before? Oh? This one? Are we back? We're back, we'll be back. We'll be back from Vegas. Yeah, we'll well, you'll hear. That's what's gonna be wild.

You'll hear about Vegas in the intro maybe or maybe not next week.

It's wild. Someone I did see a comment from someone. They're like, we hate the time machine, and it's like, well, that's how things work.

I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, we can't do it live, but I don't know we'll do it live.

We can't, we can't, we can't. Who's that's not enough time to edit out all of our ums likes?

Uh? Uh yeah, Casey needs weeks to do it to make us sound listenable.

Yeah, So she uh whatever, So rapist Chinese foods Soushi's the best. Now we have the older savage brother sitting in a cement room with bars and he it looks like he's in a dramatic one man play. He says he regrets hitting the women and that he lost his temper.

All the women are no no hitting.

I think just stip in I don't know why I wrote women, and it's like, okay, so then I guess you can leave like these people.

This couple just thinks that they could just say facts have nothing to do with it and be able to leave.

He says he takes full responsibility, and it's like, okay, great, Well, if you're taking full responsibility, then go to jail. The quickest episode ever, what do you think of responsibility and accountability is if it's not going to jail. So then a young severe woman with a cartoonish hair flip and a swoop bang is yelling about how you know my client is so banged up, and they're like, lady, he punched a lady cop in the face, so he's gonna

Does he? I don't think he cuts them off.

I think he just slashes them on their tip, slashes the tit. Yeah, I have had a tit removal episode and that's not this, No, we have that's Bengali and you can listen to that episode too.

My god, we're so sick. We knew that immediately. So it's a it's a tit slash.

And she says not enough evidence and not unique enough of a pattern, and they say, well, we have a victim who gave a description, so boom.

He still denies it. The lawyer is still trying to shut it down.

She says, listen, if they actually had a victim, you would be in a lineup, but you're not, so let's go, and Kabba goes, you're right, that's your next stop.

So it's time for the lineup.

And Carrie is the victim, played by the actress Mindy Christ And honestly, anyone would be proud to have an IMDb like hers, Like she's on every show ever. She's showing emotions, she's shaking, she's denying even actually seeing him. Uh oh, that's not good. And she but she's scared. She's like, if I don't pick the right person, that's going to be bad. And her advocate is there, and the advocate's really helping her and like, do your best, just say what is true.

She's crying, like what if the wrong person? And then he gets away and she's just really having a hard time. She would have been fun to talk to, Mindy christ We could have talked to her. That would have been fun. Yeah, but what are we gonna do?

It's a strike, Benson interjects, and she quizzes the victim on her memory to give her confidence. And she's clearly scared about this too, but Benson is gentle, sits her down and they start to talk. So she was choked from behind and then passed out, but she wakes up and so she remembers being on the ground on her back. He was on top of her, and he didn't say anything, and his hair was brown, wavy.

He had dark eyes. She pushes, like what else, what else do you remember?

What about the face and she says, dark eyebrows, clean shaven, he had a scar over his right eye and she thinks he saw the car and it was a white truck. Benson says, see you remember, and Benson allows Bethany, the rape crisis worker, to go with her. Bethany and Benson talk outside the room and leave Carrie crying alone, and she's like, this whole case relies on her, and Bethany's like, listen, I already know all the rules. I'm not gonna help her.

Also, like, the Upper West Side is not like Daniel Tiger's neighborhood. It's not like you know all your neighbors, like I've lived up there forever, and I would say, like I saw a few people I guess here and there, but it wasn't like you recognize all the people, Like you don't see people coming and going even the same four blocks. You're like, oh, there's mister Wilson leaving every day like he does. It's just like, I don't know.

But yeah, so Benson announces the news of this guy being booked right now.

The women are really excited.

All four victims are there and Benson explains the grand jury and the trial and everything with bail and just breaking down all the options that they have. It's a powerful group of women, and Benson's answering all of their questions and there are a bunch of annoying problems. So he knows where they live, so like they want his address so they know to how to avoid him, and

Now.

Munches at the corkboard speaking to the team and the photos of the women with their identical markings, so now they want to figure out the connection between the women and gain more evidence on the white truck maybe what's going on. They're chatting with Benson, and then Benson gets a call from Carrie Gardner followed her into a coffee shop. So now we know Savage aka Wonderers is Gardner, so I think it's the first time I said his name. So they go to Nice Perks Coffee. He left, Carrie

You know.

He has a perfect job and wife and looks good and he does all that to feel like a man because he wants to feel like a man. But inside he's an insecure baby and that's why he cuts their boobs because then they're scarred forever and they'll always think of him, and he's in control. He wants to instill fear in these victims because he gets off on it, and it's a way to take his control back because he doesn't think he's a real man. So what are we gonna do?

Fuck?

Benson and Stabler run off and take charge. They go to talk to the women.

One has a son, and Benson's like, just go stay with someone else, and she's like pull him out.

Of school, like I gotta work with the fuck what do you want from me? And so she slams the door in the face and is really mad, and then we see what.

What Well though, this woman, just FYI is the mom from Webb if you recognize her. She was just the mom of Teddy and Jake in Webb, which we just covered like a couple of weeks ago.

Wow yeah, wow wow.

I was like, she's so familiar. Have I seen her in something? And then I looked her up. I was like, oh, the mom from Webb.

So once Benson turns around, she sees who else but Wonder years across the street and he's walking.

A really cute puppy like a beanie bait, like a stuffed animal, gunned puppy, Like.

It's so crazy, how cute the puppy is just the chunky, little golden I mean it.

Oh my god, more puppy shots please, He's just perfect. And then Stabler picks up the puppy and it's just cute and sexy and amazing, and I can't, I can't.

It's like my favorite scene.

But it's like if it was like some snaggletooth like Mutt were they just gonna leave it there. But then Stabler's like, I can't leave this beautiful walk here as we pick him up.

I don't know what the policy is when you arrest somebody that has a dog with them.

I you know, you get around. Wait have you seen the video of Pinky? It's a viral video online.

Who's Pinky?

So it's like this cop is holding a cat named Pinky outside and he goes, hey, this is our cat of the week, Pinky, and he's up for adoption and he's a great gentle cat. The cat goes insane and it's like a minute and a half video of this cat trying to escape. They keep trying to put it in a box it won't and then we just hear then the cat grabs his leg.

And you just hear the cop go, ah, you just have a bitch, And.

It's like, Pinky is not a gentle and I don't think anyone adopted him. But it is a video that I cannot stop watching.

It's old, it's old, but I just it was recently shown to me though, But so whatever, he's outside the house.

So that's an you know, the broken order of protection.

And so they're back in court for charges of menacing, stalking and intimidating. He also fired him lawyer and is representing himself, and the judge is like, oh great, more work for all of us, and then brings Cabot and him to the bench. Cabbot believes he's doing this to fuck with the victims some more and not in good faith.

But he is right. He has the right to defend himself.

The rape and these charges are different judges though, so even though this guy allows it doesn't mean that the judge in the next trial will stand for this. He claims it was a coincidence, and Cabot goes, no way, not twice in a day, like you're lying. The judge does dismiss it though, because there's not enough evidence. Gabble, gabble. The wife is in the stands and gives him a hug.

He also lives in your neighborhood, and is that the coffee shops you go to, just having like a nightmare, possibly lurking around every corner.

It doesn't seem like a good option either.

Bethany is supporting Carrie's choice and Benson is convincing her to testify, and she says she knows nobody that has regretted testifying. Only women regret not doing it. So we got her on the stand. She's doing it. She still has a mark around her neck from the choking. She's speaking clearly effectively points him out. It's Michael Gardner, but we know he's going to pull some tricks, so he

That's kind of strange.

Cabot objects and is like, fuck, how many more ways can she answer the same question, like she was awake, you didn't notice. Move it the fuck along, and the judge agrees. He then pivots, someone was with you when you went to the cops. Yeah, she goes, yes, Bethany, and Bethany talked to her that night, and he wants.

To know what they talked about.

But that's shut that shut down because you know, both Cabot and the judge know that that's privileged information.

He sits down with no other questions.

And I'm a little taken aback that that was chill, you know, like I just thought he was gonna play some shenanigans on her. Benson is now on the stand giving all the info about the arrest, the prince, the lineup, and the bing bang bong vibes. Sorry to quote Stucky,

I'm obsessed with this.

So he says, well, I embarrassed you in front of colleagues, and she explains it's not uncommon for a purp to lose control and I certainly have been hit much harder.

Ah get her, Jade get her, and he you know, he smiles and I think you know that that got him. And he continues trying to trap her in something.

So he says that he saw her with Bethany at the precinct and he wants to know what they were talking about. And again we already covered privilege, but hairpipe, hair pipe, hairflip pipes, in, so she says that, like, no, that privilege is only with a victim, not with you know, loose detectives. And so what were they talking about? And she's like, I was advising miss Taylor not to interfere

What will happen?

So the word fishing ex addition is used. He feels like things are unfair. So the judge decides that she will question Bethany in chambers and she'll figure out what

She will not. She is in a cell. Cabot walks in too, like to you know, talk to her and talk her out of it. She will not end up stories. She is not talking.

So Benson is like, Bethany, you know, did Carrie tell you, like, did you tell her what you look like or anything? And you know Bethany didn't do that. She's a professional. So Benson's trying to, you know, push her and be like, so, why does it matter. You'll just tell the judge what you guys talked about. She'll find it immaterial to the trial and no one else has to hear about it.

Benson's at the end of her rope.

So she goes talk to talk to Carrie and tries to convince her to waive her right to privacy so Bethany can testify to the convo. Benson notices, though, that Carrie is no longer wearing her engagement ring, and she said that was her decision. She didn't want Aaron to have to wait around for her to get back to normal. She couldn't have sex without crying. Loves him, but she'll never be normal again. And Benson goes, this is not the right time to make these types of decisions, and

You have no idea.

I can't sleep for more than twenty minutes a night. I hate to be alone, but god, I hate to be around people more. And I'm so afraid to go outside or go to a crowded place because I might see him. And all I can think to myself is that it would be so much better if he just killed me. That's what I talked to Bethany about because she said I could say anything to her and no one would ever know. Benson says, nothing I do will

And he goes pass and it's like, you can't just go to the theater with your family for a day.

She's like, wow, you're night off with the kids and you go store shopping cool and he says, yeah, it's a grocery store with strippers. And he basically goes, live, you gotta let it go, and he you know, you put a rapist on trial, you know, And she says I made it worse. He says, you know that's not true. But she's making it about her. How she to she doesn't think the cost was worth it. He looks deep at her and says, you always identified with the victims and it's one of the things that makes you a

Brisk up beat vibe, you know, not a full jog. They run back out and are going to try to find him.

All alerts are on, all hands on deck and a busy scurrying energy in the squad room. Many targets out there. We need warnings out to everyone that could be his enemy. And Craigan tells him that he has had a heart on for you. Benson Wow NBC. So she says, I hope he tries something, and Stabler hangs up the phone. He already did another attack. They go to the alley and there's a crime scene there. The victim is dead,

The muscle, which got he bitter so hard.

This is so fucked up, and Melinda matched it to his dental record, so now there's no question we got the son of a bitch. So now Benson and Stabler are hounding hair Flip and they're like, it's a super windy day.

Everyone's hair is flying.

Benson is in her Bieber era short you know, short but long hair, and they're pleading like it's no longer a case of mistaken identity.

We got him.

Aaron guilty of rape and murder. She says, if I knew where he was, i'd tell you.

I just don't know.

So we're all back in the office and Munch goes, well, he has no family and he you know, we talked to the business partner's staff, nobody has heard from him. The wife is devastated, so they dump his phone to see who he like, calls all the time, Benson runs in with a file.

All the money is his wife's, but he.

Does have access to it, and recent activity shows five grand he took out yesterday morning in the Bronx. So then they heads to the Bronx to go to the cash and check place and the guy behind the bulletproof glass called him.

Richie Rich, and the camera of course is rolling.

There's money, there's bulletproof glass, there's a camera, and there's proof on the camera that he was there. And in the same frame we have the white truck in the background. So you know, Carrie mentioned a white car, but they couldn't find one registered to him or his wife. Who is driving that white car and it's a ninety nine Lexus r X three hundred, And they play the video longer and Joel Delafuente is blowing it up and getting so freaking close. Oh my god, he's kissing this person

Oh my god, exactly what I think of when I think of a white truck, a white Lexus, a SUV. Stabler says, the white I mean, it was just her memory after an Oh I'm not. I'm not, but I like, I wonder if they were like what the cops were looking for. Sailor sees the white Lexus trunk open. Not a great sign.

They run in.

They go into the Aaron's apartment, knock knocked, so we hear a voice go doors open and it's her and they walk in, guns up and they ask where he is, and she says he's here. She's uh, puts her hands up and they're covered in blood. They ask her if she's hurt. She says no, So she found the murder weapon in the car. He denied it even after she found everything. Benson says, if he attacks you, there's nothing you could have done, and she says, that's right, justifiable homicide.

She's a real one. She pulls back the curtain. He's dead.

Carrie stares at him, then walks away. Benson covers his blue body back up. It's the end of the episode. Dick wolf Baby.

I don't really I like wish she had just like made him, like she gets to kill him and now he's dead, like he doesn't get to like he doesn't really face the consequences for being a fucking serial rapist.

I don't know. I don't like that she vigilanted in that situation.

I disagree they're all happier that he's dead, you know, probably, Yeah, he can't make print calls or letters or not, you know, like he is dead dead dead dead yeah, yeah, true true. Oh and Lisa, thank you so much for that beautiful recap. Before we get into our true crime segment, I would just like to remind everybody gently in the middle of

So we are. We're getting low on tickets in Burlington, see us. Vermont, we love you so much. We need you to buy those tickets. For Boston and everywhere else, just come see us.

And also, Lisa will be at the Bellhouse in New York City on ten eleven, October eleventh, in between a couple of those dates, and I'll be doing a quick little opening set, so get tickets for that as well, because those are going fast. Okay, well, listen to these message from our sponsors, and then we've got some real true crime to talk about.

And we're back.

So this episode is based off of the case of the bike path rapist, who was a guy who would choke victims until they passed out and sexually assault them and then he eventually ended up murdering a few of his victims. Like he was at first just known as a serial rapist and then I don't know if he progressed to murder. It sounds like some of the murders were results of victims fighting back, but we'll get into it.

Wow. So yeah, So here's what happened.

This kind of came to prominence more in late September of nineteen ninety a woman named Linda Yellam had just begun her sophomore year at the University of Buffalo. She went out for a run on a bike path that goes through the campus into the town of Amherst, New York, and it was like a regular route for her. She was training for the New York City Marathon that was coming up in like just over a month, and it

And this.

As this is a verb and a noun, but it's called a garote and it's a rope or a wire or anything that's used to like strangle someone. And so I think garrot. When you garrot someone, it's actually pronounce garat. I think because I listened to a little Google thing that's like garat and tells you how to say it. But the rope left this woman unconscious and made deep

But she's so alive.

Sadly, on the day after she disappeared, her body is found and she's wearing a Nike T shirt with the wront words run like Hell on it, which is so horrible, and she has duct tape covering her nose and mouth, and it really looked like she fought back hard. Police knew when they saw the double ligature marks on her neck that this was the same guy, and that forensics from several of the previous scenes confirmed that this was the work of the bike path rapist. Police worked diligently

Was kind of creepy, and his name was Dave.

They got him, but everybody got exonerated by DNA because it didn't match. So by two thousand and two, the statute limitations is up on all these rapes, but not the murder, which obviously could still be proxiicant did so after nine After nineteen ninety, which is when Linda was killed. In ninety two, they found the body of Majean Mazur, who was a sex worker who was sexually assaulted and murdered by strangulation the same way as Linda was. She was found in a field in Buffalo, over three weeks

There's actually not very much information about her murder.

It's kind of like, I know she had a daughter who was five at the time of her murder, but that's kind of all I could find out about her. And then then what's creepy is On September twenty ninth, two thousand and six, which is six years sixteen years to the.

Day that Linda Yellam was killed.

Joan Diver, a nurse from Clarence, New York, disappeared after going on a run on a rural bike path. Her body was found two days later, also strangled, and interestingly, she was the only victim who was not sexually assaulted. It's thought that she may have died from strangulation before

Get this, This motherfucker actually registered.

And ran in Linda Yellham Memorial run in nineteen ninety six, which is a run that her family set up to like to honor her memory, and he murdered her and then for six years later ran in her memorial race that fifteen hundred plus people ran and it was like a three point one mile race, and come sick, come so sick. But also this is that's such an sbu plotline. I know, like to go to the memorial race.

Usually they just go to the press or the memorial or the cemetery, but to fucking race, that is.

To run in the race.

I mean, who would think, No one would think that you would be like that the killer would be on that list of fifteen hundred people.

Oh god, I wonder, Oh my god. Sick. And he actually had like pretty much no record.

He had two arrests for soliciting prostitution in ninety one and ninety nine, but they didn't go anywhere. In nineteen ninety the police questioned mister Sanchez and took his fingerprints after a coworker reported him lurking on a bike on the bike path. So but I guess fingerprints weren't part of the evidence they had gathered. In nineteen eighty one, five years before the first rape of his that we

And this guy just never told the cops.

And then twenty five years later, you've been basically harboring a serial rapist and murderer as your nephew. Worse still, is that a man named Anthony Capozzi, who was, you know, suffering from schizophrenia, served twenty two years for two rapes that are now through DNA tied to Sanchez, and his convictions have since been erased. But it was crazy because this guy was, like everybody said, he was severely debilitated. He was on medication that made him slow and lethargic.

But it wasn't him.

Just essentially how making a murderer starts, but then we know how it ends anyway, May two thousand, I think I said this, but just to be clear, he is arrested in January of two thousand and seven, and then in May two thousand and seven, he pleads guilty to the murders of Lynda Ellam, Majen Mazour, and Joan Diver. In August of that same year, he sentenced to seventy

Yeah, it's the profiling. It's like clearly a criminal their anti criminal minds.

Yes, specifically this specifically this says it basically talks about mindhunter criminal minds and says that like you see criminal profiles even in shows like The Alienist, which is about happens in eighteen ninety six, Like, like the article goes, we hardly do anything about human psychology in eighteen ninety six.

But I guess Malcolm.

Gladwell did like a thing about this a while ago, and then uh, the research that they are talking about just says like it's just not conclusive.

Like I mean, I guess I know, But I don't like Malcolm Gladwell. He's really like been a proponent about going back to the office, and I'm like, fuck off, I know you don't go to an office. I just find people that don't actually go to office as being like it's good for you. It's like this is all about real estate and money for rich people. Like everyone's lives are better not having to go to the office. And anyone that is pro office to me, you're not.

I don't. I'm against you. I agree, I agree with you on all that.

But Malcolm Godwell does call out a lot of bullshit rich people shit, Like he has a great article. He has a great episode of his podcasts Revisionist History about golf courses and how golf courses are like total bullshit. They take up so much fucking land in cities that could be used for people to enjoy. They're privately owned.

Clubs like people. So it's all set up like tax shields.

And you know, like there's places like in Toronto where there'll be private golf clubs, like the city will own golf clubs that members can only go to them on the weekends. It's members only on the weekends, but in the week anybody can go. And I'm like okay with that, you know, like let's let the membership money pay for something that helps other people in the city. But they just take up tons of public fucking land and they're just for rich people. So he definitely goes after other shit.

I'm glad they solved it.

Crazy that SVU kind of did a episode based on it and then it it all shook out.

Well and get ready for our post mortem because there are no guests. Well, this is wild because we were just talking in the intro about Danny Masterson and this is the This is like completely in line with reality.

You know, she's like, but he's my husband, but he has a puppy and well, now.

You've been a woman and cut off her skin, but not do I mean this biting whatever? Like this is actually the perfect episode too with what is going on where people just because they have friends they can't be rapists or because your friend didn't rape you.

Like, yeah, this guy almost reminds me of the guy from those episodes we haven't actually covered them, but like the ones with Michael Jay Fox's wife Tracy Pollen where the guy ends up he's just like a rich guy that just does this and he collects little tokens like he takes necklaces and bracelets and stuff.

You know what I'm talking about.

Uh, I remember the Tracy episode and it's like that episode's all about like the post trauma and they do a good job, but I don't Actually there.

Are two of them.

The bad guy, Yeah, there's two of them, because there's like one is like when it first happens to her, and then they catch up with her like a couple of years later, and she's like a vigilante now or something.

I don't trust people, like and it's transporting. Here's a potato salad I drove in my hot car, like ha ha, I understand telling people like, oh, bring some drinks and desserts some but like if you're hosting, fucking host And this actually showed up on my phone where it was you know, am I the ass list and that, and there were these white women were talking about if it's a child's birthday party, it said food will be there,

And then the one person who was not white, not sure where she's friend, was like, oh, yeah, no ethnic people's that's what you're saying is wild. Yeah, you feed every single person. There's an abundance of food, and you send people home.

With food, is what she was saying.

And they're like, well, what if the families have siblings? She goes, yeah, no, everyone gets.

They're like what about the spouses, like they couldn't under they could not believe feeding everybody.

No, like this is my problem.

When Jared's like, you invited so many people to Rosie's birthday, I'm like, no, the issue is if she has fourteen friends and they all have a little brother and they bring two parents, that's like fourteen times four. Like immediately it's a party of eighty people, you know what I mean, Like it's and you have to feed every That's just that's why I'm ordering massive pizzas that are the size of like a desk, because I need to feed everybody.

And it's like, yeah, that's who, that's who has a potluck. That's who goes come to my party. But by the way, it's buyob and potluck that's Byob and Paul. The only time a potluck is appropriate is when it's like a party where everyone at the school brings a dish from their heritage.

I can get behind that. You bring an Israeli.

Salad, you bring some strogan off, you bring paiea if we're trying to taste the world, yeah, children, then yes. And I've done it potluck stile at my house, I guess where I've said, like it's last minute and it's just good friends and I'm like can you bring this? And you bring this and I'll do this, and we kind of like divided off quick pay.

That's different. That's you going, hey, I'll order the dinner. Why don't you bring this?

Or yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's friendship. But the thing is that friend the times with friends, we will bring.

Stuff to each other's house, of course, but we are not what's the word made to feel like you have to yeah obligated?

Yeah, obligated because you know, I had a friend you know exactly who it is where if you stayed at their home and you did not leave them gifts, they would talk shit about.

You to your They would tell you, oh, will you were supposed to leave me a gift? Oh yeah?

They would scream at you, going, why didn't you pay for our pedicare? Like because I remember one time I was like trying to get until a flight and Kara was driving me. I wasn't living in La yet, and I was like, I have to go buy a gift. I have to leave them gifts. And she's like, do you really have to leave them a gift?

You got it. I'm like, I have to leave a gift or they get this.

And then I had real friends sit me down, going you could just hang out, you could truly come to our home.

We do not need gifts from you.

And it was a big learning experience because I felt so made to feel like a horrible person. If it wasn't, I don't know, And I'll always pay for a dinner. Yeah, well yeah with friendship, it's like I'll bring something.

But if I go to your house and I don't bring something, I don't think once I leave, you'd be like, God, that ungrateful little bitch.

She didn't bring a cheese. You know, I just don't.

Yeah.

Wait, I feel like we should at this point call out an article that our friend wrote that we both really enjoyed it. Let's do we have There's a comedian that are that we both like, named Matty Connors, and she wrote.

At the end of August.

So I guess the article came out about a month ago called Generosity and Paranoia, and it's the and then the subtitle is the American Love Language, and it's on Dirt and the website for Dirt is dirt dot FYI, we'll post a link to it in the show notes, but just want and I can also probably do a story of it day it comes out. But we really enjoyed this article and it was like a lot about giving gifts and generosity. That was interesting, So we'll call that out.

People are trash, but that's the thing.

It's like, I always want to bring stuff, but then someone that's like, listen, the flower shop was closed.

We're good friends who cares? Yeah, yeah, But I also don't like coming.

I think I'm full of contradictions, honestly in this post mortem, because I also I don't like going to places empty handed.

No me neither.

But if I really am, yeah, I usually bring a bottle of wine. If I can't, I go, I'm so sorry. I couldn't get it together to get the wine before I came, like, you know, and they're like, you're my friend, it doesn't matter, you know, And I think if you're habitually coming and being a bit like I have a friend that comes to parties and just like brings garbage and then just eats like he's never eaten before, like an animal, and you're just like, you have to like calm down at parties.

I mean, if you think you're not going to type into the chat who this is, you are mistaken. This is yes, eating all your food and bringing trash.

Yeah, oh yeah people. Yeah, I don't even know that. There's a few of Yeah, I don't even know.

I get confused between all the varieties of this person's name.

But okay, delete that break. Yeah, but one time I went, at least Mitch mcconald for a second.

I did.

We can leave the break, and if we were trying to prove it, people will probably think it broke it.

But I did Mitch the one time.

I wouldn't be offended if you said I'm Mitch mcconald, you know, because everything else is like I kicked school children and you're like, look at this McConnell.

Yeah.

No.

One time I went to the house of like a rich, famous person and I did bring like chips and white claws, and I immediately felt humiliated because he had a chef and two bartenders, and so I like hid my bag in the kitchen. So I guess if you're going to someone that's super rich, you don't have to bring it anything. What I what bothers me is I've read about etiquette that you can't you shouldn't bring flowers unless it's in a vase, and it's like.

It's hard to get a vase. That's crazy.

I do like flowers though, in like nice like paper versus like plastic, like you know, like it feels like it's classier when it comes from like the florist in our neighborhood does like this pretty like wrap around it, and it makes me feel like I've spent more neighbor our neighborhood's incredible. The florests, every single piece of our neighborhood is amazing.

Well, I woke up telling you this this morning. We're in the time machine. I don't know if you cared. But when I was talking to my mom, she goes, what are you doing for Russia, Shanna? And I'm like, nothing, like going to a couple of birthday parties. She goes, you better eat a circle hala and apples and honey. I go, I'll bet, I'll get a bagel and she goes, no, a circle Hala, apple and honey.

You have to.

And then I was on Instagram before bed and Belle's bagels goes last data pre order circle.

Halla is an apple cake. So I did it.

So I hopefully I'll see you that because I don't think I can finish a whole hala in apple cake.

Yeah, to come up from My kids will eat Halla and they eat apples and honey for breakfast, like all the time.

It's Russiashana in my house constantly.

Yeah, so I will bring I'll bring my Russia Shana goodies to your house for breakfast lunch vibes, and then we can do a little Jewish hang with the kids. Yeah, let's sprinkle a little Judaism on my children because they're not getting too much of it.

Yeah, it's a fun new year, you know why not?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, let's move on right to Sister Peg. No, let's talk more about Judaica. Yeah, let's move on.

For what would Sister Peg do?

Our weekly segment where we give you guys a resource, an organization, a book, a blog, something to give you more information about what we talked about in today's episode, We're.

Gonna point you once again.

I know we've we've pointed to this organization before, but not for a while, and they are like a vital national resource for rape survivors and survivors of abuse. And that's RAIN, which is the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network.

Thank you so much for taking us through that and next week please join us as we do. Why did I sound so NPR ye, we will be doing the episode Competence Season three, episode twenty two. Wow, we're really obsessed with these the early years, Glue, Peacock, all that good stuff, and we're obsessed with you.

Give us a nice little review, give us some stars. Let's go.

Yeah.

We love you guys. We'll see you on the road. We'll see you in your ears and check you later.

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