Dissonant Voices w/ Hana Hayes

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories done dun.

Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

I am Lisa Hello, and I am Kara Hello.

And every week on this podcast, we pick an episode of SVU that we just like, We run through it for you, and then we do the true crime that it was based on, and we chat with one of the very talented actors from the show.

But first we catch up.

We gab and today it's more needed than ever. Kara is in New York. I'm here in La and my apartment where the air conditioner is still broken. It is ninety degrees. Neither here nor there, Kara, what's up? Has Rosie even talked about me? She's really excited in New York. She's loving all the children she's meeting.

I've been taking her to a lot of friends apartments that have kids because it's hot as hell here so I can't really like bring her anywhere besides air conditioned apartments where there are toys. So she's loving it. She's a cosmopolitan girl. As she liking the busy streets. Is there a park, is there.

A baby a place?

She's pointing things out, she's loving seeing birds. She is pointing out a lot of garbage. She keeps going, there's garbage on the ground. I'm like, yeah, that's New York. There's a lot of garbage on the ground. But it's great. I took Rosie and Oscar today down to my old apartment and I got a little picture of them. I'm probably gonna put it on Instagram. I got a little picture of them in front of my old apartment. It was really cute.

And it's cool.

New York is wild, Like there's just so many All the restaurants have like little outdoor huts now of like where you can eat outside, and it's sort of amazing. I know it was caused by a pandemic that ravaged the city, but it's a lovely little silver lining.

I guess, like, no, you feel like you're in a different country. Everyone's just drinking wine and martinis out in the.

Streets, and there's like places that like, honestly their winter their storefront doesn't look that great.

And I'm like, I would never eat there. But now that they have like an outside.

Thing, I'm like, yeah, i'd eat there, you know, like i'd sit and have a glass of wine.

But it's been really fun.

I saw some of our mutual friends yesterday for dinner, and I saw some of my college.

Friends, and we've been having a blast.

And how's your family? The Connecticut house.

Was a hit.

The Connecticut house is a hit. Rosie is obsessed with it. She wakes up every morning and goes, where are all my friends? Meaning all my all my siblings and like her aunts and uncles.

Well, you haven't seen your sister in like two years? Yeah?

Yeah, it was wild. So now we've been hanging out a lot, which is good. And we're going to West Virginia tomorrow. Baby yeh no, sorry, West Virginia.

I'm sure Shelby Chill. I'm sure it's just as fun as New York City. It is. It is just as fun.

And you're driving the whole time. Yeah, better or worse? Will it be than the plane?

You think?

What?

How is the plane?

Was it?

The plane name of a nightmare? Nightmare? The plane was a nightmare?

Delta? What happened with COVID? Like they don't they can't afford any movies anymore. They had two kids movies and then the entire system did not work at all. I would have been fine with her just watching Finding Nemo over and over again, because that was basically all they had, but the full system shut down. Rosie was just wiggleworming in her seat for six full hours and Oscar Turbo barfed all over me.

But I was prepared for it because he does that.

Once in a while, and so I brought extra clothes for like everybody and including myself, and I was the one he barfed on. So it worked out, but it was harrowing. I really like feel. You know, our friend Cole Byer constantly is like tweeting keep children off of planes. I kind of agree, but I also have a person with two children and I need to fly, so you know, I try to keep them as quiet as I can.

I don't know if that happens on a plane, though, because I think all parents have to be on alert that they are the number one enemy. Like they know that people are I don't you know. I like to smile at a baby, but they have to know. No, people are terrible, Honestly.

People know now.

I I'm so lucky with Rosie. The first time I flew with Rosie alone. Famously, I flew to Chicago for Megan Gay's bachelorette party with a five month old and I took two flights there because I wanted to get status.

Did I end up losing my status? I sure did so.

I flew two fucking flights with a baby, and I luckily got seated. Its to like really nice grandmas both ways, and they would like hold her for me while I like once it like went to get things out of the overhead. You know, It's just like I got lucky.

But I'm sure Nicole like me.

Anytime I see the struggle, I just feel blessed.

Yeah, it's just a reminder. It's like you should have seen us.

I mean we literally looked like a cartoon from like a Christmas vacation movie or something like we. I like, we both were like loaded down with bags like car seats to gatecheck the little stroller I had for Oscar's car seat lost a wheel. The wheel kept popping off everywhere we went like a pilot had to help me stop and help me put the wheelback on.

Like it was harrowing. But we got there and we've been having a good time.

Yeah, you know, on pre check, I just I kind of arrive, I fall asleep immediately, and I love it.

Yeah. No, we're pre checked too, so that's the one blessing.

Yeah.

Yeah, actually we should cut that because I don't need anyone else getting pre checked.

I like my zoom in and out. That's the thing.

It's like, it's such an amazing service. It's people that don't use it. You're so dumb. But also I don't want you to use it. And how do so many people not purchase it? I know people that don't, like like my in laws.

I told them to get it and they were like, we just barely fly and I'm like, even if you fly once a year, it's worth it.

But again, cut all this.

We don't want people using our Yeah, but you're gonna make me do clear, I'm gonna have to like go up to the next level where they're scanning my eyeball.

No, by the way, so I got a new phone finally after years of bullying, and I have a lavender iPhone twelve. I think yeah, clear glitter case. Benjamin at the T Mobile and Highland Park fantastic service. I cannot tell you enough what an incredible employee he was. But the face lock, what the fuck? What the fuck is up with this face scanning. I'm wearing sunglasses, you can don't recognize me. I'm wearing a mask. You don't recognize me. It's like bullshit. I know the dumst invention. Give me

No, not sunglasses either. Damn.

I'm not in New York, I don't. I did brag about being able to fall asleep and stuff. I was in Arizona. I was in Scottsdale. They pretend it's Phoenix. What's with comedy clubs, lying like I'm going to rally and it's actually in.

Carrie, Like my brother lives in Carrie.

He's got to come. Wait when is it this week? I mean people are gonna listen to it was last weekend. Oh okay, I'm gonna tell him to go. He's got al komp him of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all his burgers are on me. I cannot believe it. I am so excited. But yeah, because our friend, I was like, how's Kara's sister. I've never met her. She said, not as chatty as you. A little quieter.

Well, when you can't get a real burden, yeah, you grow up a little less chatty.

So I can't wait to meet a bro. Oh my god, yeah Carrie, last time. I's whatever. The hotel is across the street from a Starbucks, and let's be honest, that's all I need. I just need little egg bites and I'm good to go.

I mean, if it was across the street of Starbucks and a Jimmy John's, it would be like you're moving there in Arizona.

I did have Jimmy Johnes three times and then I was sick of it. So hopefully I'll never have it again. But I was so happy to have it since I'm starting a health kick again.

Some kind of just like having quarter pounders.

Okay, anyways, but yeah, I'm sick of comedy club's lying, like the Chicago improv is actually in Schomberg.

It's like, stop it.

I'm having plans of rally, you know, I know a tattoo artist there, and suddenly.

I'm in Carrie. I don't know.

But anyways, I was in Arizona. I met some listeners. One was very nervous, like I felt like I was Michael Jackson and I was like, you need to stop doing this. She was just like she was a legit shaking a little bit, and I was like, what's up? And her fiance they just got engaged. He was like she's a little quiet, and I was like, yeah, she's so anxious.

But if I was a quiet person, you would be scary for me to talk to.

Yeah, I guess it's just like I know who I am and like I'm looking at like I don't know. It's just but once you know who you are and that, it is weird when someone is nervous to talk to you, right, like right, what do you talking? I hat, Jimmy John's in bed and sat at a pool alone for five hours, like I.

Don't know why.

But I also had problems the plaza they put you in at the pool closes at ten pm.

Bullshit, Like a person came to kick me out.

Oh, we're adults, You're gonna look at your own risk.

Yeah. Fuck. Old people suck and Republicans suck.

They love rules, they love fucking rules and interrupting. Oh. There was also a family at the show. One podcast listener. It was her eighteenth birthday. What's up with her sister, her parents, her grandma who's eighty four, a therapist still working, wear a mappard and she thought I was great. And I was like, if this eighty four year old therapist likes me, I'm doing something right, you know what I mean?

Amazing? I love that.

And what a fun family. I wouldn't see me with a family. I think that's the number one mistake you can make. Also, I don't even know if I should bring it up up, but a QAnon kind of lunatic made a video against me. Someone tagged me in it, and at first I was a little nervous. This person was like crying and going nuts, and I go, what could I have said?

What could I have said? That was so?

And then I started searching her stuff. It's all Jesus stuff, it's all blue lives mad. It's like, okay, so what's going on here? She was mad that I talked about pornhub. She's one of those people that thinks they care about human trafficking but actually just want to shut down any service for any sex worker.

And they think sex work.

Is wrong and they say, you know, it's like pre serve raping kids all the time.

Get off my back.

But yeah, it was actually a person who just doesn't believe in porn.

So yeah, but they made like a ten minute video.

Please send it to me. It's tears, ten minute video with tears. And she goes, she will, I'm not going to let this go, and I'm like, okay, you didn't even tag me. Also, she goes, and I kept thinking she would go back and say that she was just kidding, but she wasn't. She meant it, And I go, clearly, it's a joke. The whole hour is a joke. You want me after every joke to go, I'm kidding. I actually don't want to kill my father like, what are you talking about?

Wait? Where did she see to you? Is this based off of? This was in Arizona? This was a she left the show.

She made a video after seeing you live. She left the show go after my porn hub joke. She said she waited ten more minutes. She was crying in the video, how distraught she was because I love child abuse images. It's like, it's the most crazy. It's it was because at first, you know, I'm an empathetic person. I was like,

To me after the show. Yeah, at the very least tag you in this video. Yeah.

No, someone else tagged me and they were like, I see her all the time.

Hopefully she'll learn from this. I go, clearly it was a joke. Why would everything be a joke for an hour?

And then this one thing is not a joke because you seem like, like, why didn't she say she was kidding?

She wasn't kidding, of course I was kidding.

Imagine a comedian that just said just kidding after a repunchline.

That's what you pay for.

Yeah, it's it was a silly thing. But I can't wait to meet your brother amazing. Yeah, I'm gonna get him to come. I mean, he does have two kids, so hopefully we'll figure something out.

His mother in lave Stills down there. I'm sending him. He's going.

But let's let's get going into this episode because it's a good one and we got lots of.

No one else to talk shit about. I haven't talked to you in like a week and a half. I know we do. We need to just get on FaceTime. I don't know if it's all well.

I've been leaving you alone a little bit because you know, we are with two kids in New York City.

No, I'll definitely FaceTime you from West Virginia. I'll be very bored and have time.

How close is West Virginia and North Carolina? Should I meet up? I rent a car. That's what happened. I don't know if I've mentioned this before. I went to Australia for a comedy festival. My friend was living in Dubai at the time, and I was like, hop on over girl, and then she came and I was and she was tired, and I go, what's the problem. She goes, it was an eleven hour flight. I go, oh, I thought it was so close. She goes, what do you

I had a crush on someone already. So then I ignored her for a while.

And she's like, I flew from Dubai and I was like, oh, yeah, I thought it was a quick trip.

My bad.

Anyhow, all right, let's get going into today's EPP. All right, all right, we are talking today about Dissonant Voices, season fifteen, Episode seven exciting.

I love this episode, and let's get going.

We open on Jackie Walker, the amazing Billy Porter. I love this man so much. I follow him on Instagram. I watch him in Pose. I I honestly think this was my first exposure to him. When I saw him in Pose, I was like, oh, from that episode of SVU like that, this is how I he came into my life.

I saw him at a was it Virgin? I think I flew Virgin to Austria. I saw him in the lounge ooh, and it was thrilling. I left him alone. But it took a lot of strength and not to ruin his day.

It took a lot out of me.

And I do want to say, I mean, I'm sure other people, but I give him full credit and exploding men's fashion with that Christian Siriano velvet tuxedo dress like that to me really, after that it felt like even straight to we're wearing harnesses and different colors and Paisley print undershirts, like I really feel like him and Christian Seriano really did something.

Yeah, he brings it on the red carpet every time, and he is like the only one of the only men doing anything interesting. So I think that's great, And I mean, now more are like you said, but yeah.

So he is Jackie Walker.

He's backstage at some kind of production encouraging a young girl named Grace to go out on stage, like get out there and kill it. She looks nervous as hell. She looks on the precipice of barf And then we break into a graphics package for American Diva, which is clearly an American Idol ripoff, and it.

Is week one.

Grace steps out on the stage. The judges are American Idol alums Clay Aiken and Taylor Hicks and the incomparable Ashanti. She was a huge part of my college life. Love a shanty?

No, my notes say, is that a shanty? I couldn't believe it completely. She's this girl. Grace is like so so nervous. She stutters her name in her hometown. We see a package of her with her mom and dad, and then Grace like doing a confessional where she talks about her mom's cancer diagnoses. Very classic American idol to have, you know, get your background package and then spill your hardship.

I love this.

I love when they're watching the thing that's about to happen, Like, yeah, I enjoy that.

Also, Ice is he's drinking.

A Snapple, and I know that's everywhere, but I do feel like I drink more Snapple when I lived in New York. It feels like a more New York thing than any well.

I also I drink a Snapple, probably five snapples a week when I lived in New York, Like raspberry iced tea Snapple was my like, that was my drink of choice, and I cannot find one in California. They've either discontinued the flavor or they're just not sending it to the West Coast.

I got.

I'm going back to New York in a month, and I can't wait to find out where my snapp was.

I'm mom, I'm a diet lemon or peach iced tea girl, but as I was peach iced tea, yeah, Kiwi strawberry, Oh wow, I loved it.

But yeah, I love Snapple.

I hate that they went from glass to plastic but what I made, But I love that he was drinking it. And I'm glad you also think it's a New York thing. And I'm sure people will write to us going, how dare you we have Snapple here too?

But no, we have Snapple in my grocery store.

But it's just it's always just regular iced tea, peach maybe and like half in half.

I don't know. There's just not my raspberry iced tea that I want anyway.

Kara, one thing you might not realize is the girl that plays Grace was the second runner up season two of the X Factor. So she's saying for Simon Callan was on one of these shows herself.

Oh my gosh, I didn't even know that she was amazing.

She's saying feeling good and she was like twelve and crushed it and then was on Broadway after, so she experienced this in real life.

Kind of hilarious.

Oh wow, Okay, thank god you're doing this extra research because I just like, I didn't recognize it.

Now I watched the season, I didn't recognize her.

And I was just like I don't care. You know, like if I recognize an actor, I obviously look up their whole IMDb. But this girl, I was just like, okay, this is just like a young girl.

Wow. So an X Factor alum is playing Grace.

So we're cutting back and forth in and out of this package like rollins and f or eating the Chinese and watching the show. And then we get back into the package and Grace is there with Jackie and Jackie's her vocal coach, and he like they do a close up of him, like touching her mid section. So it's sbu so you know, like you know what's coming, and uh, Grace is like, this is all thanks to my mom and.

Dad, God and my coach.

Jackie Walker, and I'm like, okay, I mean I don't think God did anything, but whatever. I always like go crazy when like gymnasts are like I got to give it all up to God, and I'm like, no, give it up for yourself. You were the one driving to the gym at four am. Like you are the one that like didn't doesn't get a period anymore. Like God has nothing to do with this, but a noop dog has thanked himself. I forgot if he has when he

Yeah, and I get I know God helps you work hard. So okay.

So now we're back to the audition and she says she's going to sing for Once in My Life by Stevie Wonder and Klaike and is like, okay, bitch, how old are you? And she's like fourteen And he's like okay, let's see it. Like he's like, there's no way you're gonna nail this, like amazing song.

She starts singing.

She's so quiet, she sounds like she's bombing, and then like suddenly there's a turn and she has like the most soulful voice. She's killing it. She's the audience is going nuts and she's amazing. Now we cut to all the different cast members and people in the outside world watching this girl, like Sleigh on this audition.

We see a live on.

The phone talking to Cassidy. She wants to throw a housewarming party. We see amorrow with Zara, his daughter, at a diner.

She's like, Daddy, I want to be on American Diva. How do I do that?

And he's like, practice and I'm like, well, also, you have to have vocal talent, Like you just can't practice your way into being.

Good at it. I know.

But then the kid goes, you're silly, daddy. I'm like, nothing is silly about practice. Yeah, how we're talking about keep eating your pancakes, Zara, right, But it truly just set a statement like nothing is silly about it.

Then they cut back into Finn and Rollins.

At the precincton Rollins is like singing along and I don't really she super moved by the song or does Kelly Giddish want to have a moment where she can sing. I don't really know what's going on here. And then we cut to this family where this little kid, Cooper is like sitting too close to the TV. His teen sister and him are watching the show. And then another family, a blonde family, where the blonde teenager is like, where's Jonah. He's missing the best part, and Grace is like smashing

I don't think ever.

They would be like my vocal coach is coming out on stage. I would do that with my acting coach. Yeah, but I would stay here right now toward Ted's coming with him.

He's coming out on stage, and I got to give it up for my podcasting partner carry get out here, like that's what I want. I want that at your at your OSCAR acceptance speech, Wow, Oscar, I was totally thinking, like a people's choice, thank you for believing in me. Yeah, daytime, Emmy.

Maybe okay.

So then the in the blonde family, this little boy comes out Jonah, and the mom's.

Like, who's really cute? He's really cute. Yeah, he's super super cute.

And the mom's like, that's your music teacher, mister Jackie, Like, isn't that exciting? He's on TV? And Jonah's like, no, I don't like mister Jackie. He makes me play doctor and I don't like him, and he runs away and that's that's the end of the cold open. So we're obviously getting into a episode about accusations here. So now in the beginning of Act one, Olivia is interviewing Jonah. He's four years old, and he says, mister Jackie's a bad man. He followed me into the bathroom, and Pipa, well,

Jonah's mom and dad recently split. This is relevant.

Later in the hallway, fin and Tomorrow are talking to Jonah's mom, who says, well, one weird thing is that Jonah wet the bed at his dad's house.

What she hasn't done forever.

And then Jonah's dad like blows in, screaming like hot comes in so hot, Like they just are screaming at each other.

Like she's lying. She only cares about the money. She already made a false report to me about.

The UH to the IRS, which is like, that's so shady, like calling in a fake like you don't want to fuck with people's finances like that. I mean, no, you can't call in any false reports. The IRS is the best false report you can call in. You're gonna fuck with your husband, call the IRS. Don't accuse him of some kind of like crime he didn't commit. Very Blue Jasmine, Yes,

No, I'm loving Rollins and I love her got instinct and following it. But it's it is funny like when they choose because usually she's the dumbest bitch of all, you know what I mean. So I'm always so curious, like what about each case makes her not be the worst or any of them?

When they like are like, wait.

I have a hunch, cause it's like, well usually you're just like not hunching around.

Yeah and yeah, And it's like somebody not having a record doesn't really mean anything.

Somebody not you know.

Like everybody has to have the first blemesh on their record at some point. So at the school, Rollinson Finn find a bathroom that has bluebirds and flowers painted in it.

It's like a single stall bathroom.

In the music room, Jackie is talking to Cooper's mom from the first scene, and she's like very delusional, and she's like, I saw a YouTube video of a girl who was three singing opera and it's like you can just tell she's like this stage mom who thinks her children are more talented than they are. Jackie's like, excuse me, what are you doing here? Like this is rude, I'm

And also like if you were using vibrators on children, you would hide it a little, right, You're not just throwing it in the clap and place exactly exactly for like a kid to find in the middle of the day. It's very weird, and Jackie thinks he's being punked by one of his producers, and like in the next scene he's an interrogation. He's completely like flabbergasted, like he's denying everything.

He's stuttering like what the hell, Like none of this is this, that's not my tool, Like I don't know what that is.

I never you know.

And Olivia is like, you're famous and you're still teaching preschool kids like what? And Jackie's like, I care about what I do. Music is so important for kids and the early years are the most important. And then like he's just like, not, they're not believing anything he says, so he lawyers up.

Well.

I love his line during this where he's just like you are not listening to me. Yeah, like you are not seeing me, you are not you are not taking me seriously at all.

I need a lawyer.

And I just love the way he set up his boundaries and it was like it wasn't like, oh I'm scared, this is too much.

I'm getting a lawyer.

It's just like, you guys are fucking up. I just love the way he worded everything. He's an amazing actor. No, he is really great.

You really get the you really get this sort of like hysteric, like how upsetting it must be to just have everybody coming at you being like, yes, you did you did this, you did this, you did this, and you you didn't do it.

And I'm sure there's an added like distrust of the criminal justice system and everything being a black gay man and like these rich ass white spaces like it already.

It's just so many added layers and layers.

Yeah, clearly the listeners can see what's whose side we're on.

We're not hiding it.

Yeah, I'm sort of giving away a little bit of the end, but this is like the point of the episode. Rollins is like, Wow, you guys were like going out him pretty hard, and Benson's like, you're the one that found the eggs exactly where Jonah said they'd be, And I mean she's just kind of still like he's worked at the school for twelve years. There's been no complaints.

We can put a link to that in our thing too, But Elmo is still kicking. Yeah, Almo's not going anywhere.

This was like one guy that voiced Elmo and was his puppeteer had a scandal and it's like, yeah, Almo is here to stay. So they think Jackie has been grooming Jonah, and Rollins is kind of like, I don't know. He's four years old, like he might not know what's going on. Pippa says Jonah won't be swearable, even though she before said he was consistent and credible.

I guess because of age. He's too young.

So they're like, there's got to be other accusers. She said, I'll call the Principles see if there's other accusers, and I'll put some fear in them, is what she says.

Now, I'm just picturing Rosie as like an expert witness on the stand.

I bet she could do it. They'd be like, who did you see do this?

She'll go Leza under jack Aranda.

She does love talking about jack Aranda's.

Well, anyone that I tell about that, They're like, what's a jack Aranda?

I go, yeah, exactly. So now in the next scene, Rollins is talking to Cooper, who.

Is clearly another boy who's come forward, and he is the boy who his mom was talking about the opera singer and we were watching this boy and his sister watch American Diva at the beginning of the episode. So they're like, hey, Cooper, we heard you didn't want to go to music class the other day, and he goes, yeah, I didn't want to go because mister Jackie does bad things.

He came into the bathroom with me. There was a window.

Above the tub with pink flowers and she's like a tub and he's like, I meant sync. So he talks about the game and the extra special purple magic eggs and then he gets tickled with it. So it's a very similar story to Jonah's and apparently nobody things they sound coached. In the hallway. Cooper's mom is like a complete nut and she's like pacing the halls, fielding phone calls, like getting multiple calls like hold on, I'm on the

Jackie is still denying. I have to admit. This does look bad.

Does look bad for him, and he's denying, but every pedophile would deny, you know, Like so who knows. A bunch of kids say they saw him go into the bathroom with Cooper. So Jackie breaks down and says, okay, I did go into the bathroom with Cooper because the poor kid fell into the toilet. He was embarrassed, he was crying. I was trying to help him and save him from shame. I should have told his mother. She wasn't at pick up that day. I had to go

We go with?

Punk Like she's really kind of coming off a little bit more cynical than Olivia usually does. And now it's like the full scandal of this has launched right like it's on TV Grace from American Divas being hounded by the paparazzi and she's like, I thought I knew him.

I guess I didn't, you know.

Taylor Hicks makes a statement on behalf of American Diva saying that Jackie's taking a leave of absence. Iced Tea is like a little bit with Rollin's like, are we

In this show, it seems like it's two weeks, but it's years.

In a lot of cases, and you know, that's why we sort of need to change the whole bail system. But also, yeah, this is a semi famous, openly black gay man going to jail with the stink of pedophile on him. So he's not having a great time in jail.

And this is kind of like the Pipa Cox Tank Abraham episode in terms of like them telling Hank like, yeah, everyone's going to turn their back on you if they already haven't, right, Like you really need some great fucking friends to stand with you during a pedophile trial. Yeah, yeah, Like we might be best friends, but will you be my friend when I'm on.

Trial for pedophilia? Who knows?

Right?

In the next scene, Olivia's with her therapist, so they talk about the case. Olivia feels like she's playing whack a mole, like, which I'm sure it is what it's like when you work in sex crimes in New York City, Like it's never there's never like a slow period where people are not being hurt. So he's like, do you think of yourself as a savior, And it's like, yeah, Olivia Benson is one hundred percent of savior.

Lisa has the candle to prove it.

He's like, you've spent so much of your life taking care of others. You've never mentioned your parents, and I couldn't help but wonder very Sex in the City.

Dialogue, if when you were a little girl did someone take care of you?

Okay, so we're getting a little personal moment with Olivia where you get the feeling that she completely raised herself because obviously her father wasn't in her life and her mother was this alcoholic and so you don't get the feeling that she was taken care of and so maybe this speaks to her need to want to take care of people.

All the time.

So now in the next scene, the floodgates are open. All these kids are now saying mister Jackie's a bad man that touched them. But this next round of stories do not sound credible to me really as much or at all. So like one of the kids is like, mister Jackie is a bad man, and then she says it was uncomfortable. And now Finn is hearing from a little boy and says, mister Jackie played the game with me.

It was inappropriate. Like that's not words four year olds are using.

I mean, my daughter repeats everything I say, but she's not like in conversation saying inappropriate. And I know she's only two, but I don't really think that you can just tell that these are coached words, I think. And tomorrow is like hearing from a little girl who straight up goes, mister Jackie's a bad man to my mom says he is, so he is like you know, so that's like you're just fully hearing how these kids are

And they're all preschoolers at this.

School and they all said Jackie Walker tickled them. And all the kids are too young to be swearable, like they're all four around four. So now they're like, let's go to brook, Jonah's older sister, because she's been studying with him for ten years, even though she's like fourteen or fifteen now, she's studied with him when she was four. So Brooke says, Jackie didn't touch me. He just touches little kids. And they're like, yeah, but you were a

Watch and touch himself.

Now I'm watching this episode with my mother at this time, who is a pediatrician, and my mom goes, oh, come on, you could not put one of those toys inside of a four year old child without causing serious damage. And I was like, okay, so that's coming from a pediatrician that you could not put a full vibrator egg into a small child or it would cause bleeding, which a parent would notice.

You know what, this season, maybe a Neil Bear's a medical expertise on staff.

Yeah, you know what I mean, because she would have known you can't put an egg in a baby.

And you know what, Rosemary Clink is available and she can be paid in wine. If you pay her in rose she will absolutely be your pediatric consult I did.

Love watching your mom drink wine.

You did wait long. She was truly going through bottle after bottle. She was on vacation. If you're a patient of her, she was on vacation.

So now they go talk to Rachel Cooper's older sister. And I love this actress because her name is Kara with a K, and she is also the main girl from Moonrise Kingdom which was a movie I loved, and I actually tried to have a Moonlight Rice Kingdom themed backdrop for my photo booth at my wedding, but it was too hard to do. But I did call several Alamo draft houses asking if I could get their backdrop

Yeah, because he did spend ten years with them, probably multiple times a week.

That is fucked. But then it is like, you're right.

The acting is so good because it's vindication, it's relief, like you will get out, but then it's a heartbreak and then it's also my life will never be the same, these two dumb bitches. It is so many emotions that he's able to capture for sure.

So he starts crying and like tearing up when he realizes, like how like what has gone down? And they're like, wow, setting up your music teacher who dropped you for being a pedophile as hardball, like even for teens, and Rollins is like yeah, But Brooks sees the way her mom plays hardball in this divorce, and I mean admittedly like calling the irs, making up a story, like she sees like this is how you get back at people that make you mad.

But also is she is sociopath because it's like I don't care how mad I was at someone, I would not like frame.

Them for pedophile rape, you know what I mean?

Like, no, that has such Do you really think he should serve forty years in jail? Like it's fucked up? Yeah, these girls better get fucking locked up.

Well, I think we find out that they don't because it's like for sure, it's about privilege, Like they don't really see it as a thing of this is what's going to happen to this man's life. They're just like, no, he isn't going to make us be stars, so we're doing this, or he's not gonna help us be stars.

I guess Okay.

So we're cutting back and forth between the interviews with Rachel and Brooke, and they're asking Rachel like, so he had like a power over you, but like then you just quit working with him or did he drop you? And she's like, don't let them talk to me like this to her mom, which is a little bit you get like a little tinge of her being a little bit too entitled.

And then they corner Rachel.

They're like, oh, you bought the magic eggs online with your parents credit card.

Like that to me is like a smoking gun, like.

You got the eggs like that could have been checked to me before the press. Goot word, Let's look and see if anybody in like has bought these eggs or whatever.

Also, Amorrow is like yelling at her and I liked it. Yeah.

Amaro gets real pissed at Rachel, and then she breaks down and is like this wasn't my idea. This was all Brooks ideas. She made the whole thing up. She told me what to say, she told Cooper what to say. That's it. And then Brooke, in her interrogation, is like, I know I'm going to be a star, and Rollins is kind of like, really, girl, it's really funny. I love Rollin's sparring with a fourteen year old narcissist. And

Of your daughter, Shade. I love it, so you know.

In the next scene, all the charges against Jackie are dismissed. The City of New York extends their sincere apologies. I mean, he obviously has a civil case on his hands. He should get money.

Benson, Amaro and Rowlins apologize to Jackie, but Jackie does not give a fuck. His name is ruined.

He'll never teach again, and he's like, when did these girls get charged? And Barba's like, they got misdemeanor obstruction one year probation. They won't testify against each other, and the only way to prove it would be to have four year old boys take the stand and these boys are already damaged as it is, and he's like they're damaged, and it's like just a more great billy Porter acting and he's just like, get the hell away from me.

This didn't have to happen.

And it is kind of a good Rowlins episode because you're like, she had a punch the whole time, that this was like not what it seemed.

And I like that she's calling them out at the end too of just like whatever you need, bitches, but you're wrong and you did this and you fucked this man's life up forever, right.

And it is a rare occasion, I feel like where you see live making a big mistake too, like that, Like Olivia, I think that they're suppose they're trying to show you how affected she's been by the trauma that's happened to her. I think because she normally is a little bit more even keeled.

She hears both sides.

She like examines though it's in front of her and this she was just like, you're guilty, like immediately, so it was kind of you know, you don't see that a lot.

Anyway.

I'm excited and I don't again I always say excited, but I'm interested to hear the real story.

Yeah, unfortunately there is no false accusations here.

It is it is confirmed.

It is confirmed, and actually PIPA Cox mentions this case in this episode. Yes, so stay tuned everyone.

Welcome back. Okay.

I hope the commercials were nice and soothing or you skipped through them like we do.

Okay, and don't do it. Listen to them, guys. We need that money.

So this case is set in the UK in England. Jimmy Saville is the purp that we will be discussing.

And I learned about this case a few years ago.

I was performing at the Melbourne Comedy Festival and this comedian, Rosie Jones.

And I were hanging out.

I will never forget this, and there were other comics there too, and she just broke down and told me this whole story and it shocked my life up. I couldn't believe we didn't know about it in the States. But also it is truly heinous. It is so layered, so many facts over decades.

It is just a wild case. I know nothing about this.

By the way, I'm like coming in completely virginal to this story.

Oh, you will be shocked.

Yeah, So I do want to out out Rosie Jones for introducing me to this case.

She is a weak compan another Rosie.

Oh yeah, she's a really funny comic in the UK and really talented writer, so check her out. Maybe she has a podcast, who knows. But it is really shocking. And the way she explained it to me was like if mister Rogers had committed all of these crimes against children and stuff. But when I googled him, he does not look like mister Rogers. He looks wild and it is kind of part of his appeal that he looks eccentric and so abnormal. So I was like, Okay, maybe

So.

Jimmy Saville was a DJ television personality, children's television host, radio personality, and a dance hall manager and was super well known for his fundraising and supporting of charities and hospitals. A very very known philanthropist, he was knighted in nineteen ninety by the Queen. He also got like some other special religious nighting from Pope John Paul the Second. He was beloved and he used his reputation to commit these crimes. He hung out with the Royal family. He spent holidays

I'm just so weirdo, Like that's just me.

To kind of quiet everything down, and even in like nineteen seventy two in a documentary, he was quoted saying, it's a nice thing that I have nothing to hide from people, Like.

With every moment, you will be more emotion.

She's always so wild to me when people are just like flaunted a little bit, like I'm just an open book.

Like what it's like you're asking.

It's like it's like Erica Jane going on TV and showing how she spends her money when it's all being stolen, like.

And it is just so sad and disgusting that how far she's doubled down where she's just like, I don't have to give my money back, and it's like, you're disgusting.

I can't. I hope she ends up in jail, which is wild.

You know, we bonded going to her concert, I know, her forty five minute concert.

I was pregnant, brought I brought my rosie and you'd wrote to that show.

And the big thing with this case that makes it even more horrific, besides all the crimes, is like I mean, the question is did people know or not? The answer as they did. How much did they know? Were people covering it up? Were they surprised? And we're going to talk about all this. But he was able to get away with these crimes for decades and it was an open secret. Investigators now legit believe he has around five hundred victims.

Oh my god, some as young as two years old.

Ough at the height of his fame, he sexually abused hundreds of children, women, men, everybody. He committed these crimes at institutions including the BBC Broadcasting Studio, fourteen hospitals and twenty children's hospitals across England.

Oh my god, getting ahead of the story.

Though he did die in October twenty eleven at age eighty four, and then the story broke, so the story was kept hidden until after his death.

Wow, but that is what they refer to in the SVU episode. They refer to Jimmy Saville as like a guy that has victims of both genders and like who and various ages he is.

That's a little bit of a break from the norm with pedophiles.

I feel like, yeah, and then this isn't along in the story. But a Washington Post article from twenty fourteen. It started so shady and went Jimmy Saville was never a handsome man, and I'm like.

Okay, which Gay wrote this article.

So going back in time nineteen fifty five is the earliest incident of abuse recorded by the police in Manchester, when he managed a dance hall nineteen sixty a ten year old boy asked for an autograph and he took the boy inside and sexually assaulted him. By nineteen sixty five, records show abuse started at the BBC, at Leeds General Infirmary, where he was a longtime volunteer, and at Stone Mandeville Hospital where he also volunteered. His relationship at Leeds General

He also got his own parking spot.

He was there a lot and he had limitless range of facilities. He would actually park his camper van overnight at the hospital and workers would dispatch at eight am coffee to his door, so he was just like always out and about. Doctor Sue Proctor, who chaired an inquiry into his actions at Leeds, said that Savill had an unwholesome interest in the dead. If you can catch my drift, it is said that he posed for photos and performed sex acts on corpses in the hospital at mortuary.

Jesus.

This story lots of people claim across many sources, but I was not able to confirm this next statement. But a bunch of different people said that he would wear jewelry and rings that were made from glass eyes of dead bodies from the mortuary.

Oh my gosh.

He had a bedroom at Stoke Mandeville Hospital in Buckinghamshire and an office in living quarters at Broadmoor Psychiatric Hospital in Berkshire. He yes, he made inappropriate comments when female patients had to strip down. He showered naked in front of staff. He would watch women shower, molest and rape patients and staff. He had free reign and a set of keys. He had a set of keys to a

Oh my.

One hospital worker said he sort of basically had the run of the place. Some of his victims were attacked as they lay on hospital trolleys after operations.

Oh my god. And I learned about all this while we were like at a bar drinking.

I was just like, wait, what, like what like we do a crime show when we talk about Heinus crimes and you were like what the fuck? I was like having a cocktail with an umbrella and it as these Brits were just like yelling, like everyone was just telling me, and with every moment it got.

Like worse and worse and worse. So yeah, at the aft Drop.

Besides hospitals, he also raped and assaulted people in television dressing rooms, schools, children's homes, and in his car. And that's why he agreed to like bust patients around and drive everyone because it was like a great place to molest people they're in your car. He also would like be their version of make a Wish style, like he would be driving people in limos to get their like wishes because they were sick, and molest sick kids on

I mean it was like on fucking oh because yeah, but I'm sure by the time you're getting away with it for a couple of decades, you're like, well, I'm just gonna I'm untouchable now, you know.

Well, yeah, and we'll get to more of how he had leverage on people as well. In nineteen seventy three, year Radio one controller asked the station's press guy, Rodney Collins, to check whether any papers were planning to print any of these rumors, and all the papers said that they heard allegations but were unwilling to print them because, whether they were true or not, because of his charity work in popularity, they didn't want.

To fuck with it.

He would persuade the tabloids not to publish the stories because they would be responsible for the end of his charity fundraising. So Savill is said to have raised forty million pounds for charities and that became his effective form of emotional blackmail. So anyone that did want to speak up, including nurses, tabloids, coworkers, anyone, he would say, if you do this, you're the reason this hospital won't get money. So if you tell, then you guys don't get millions of dollars.

As if there's no other way to raise funds except for this man, Jimmy Saville, Like yeah.

But it worked, it worked.

The fundraising got him into everything and just like very powerful places. So like in nineteen eighty eight, he was even appointed by the Department of Health as the head of a task force overseeing broad more the psychiatric hospital he worked with, the Department of Health anointed him the head of something.

You know, that's so weird, like you have no medical training, Like that's just weird.

And even still though some people claim they had no clue and you don't know if they're being honest or protecting themselves or what's going on. But Roger Ordish was the producer of one of his shows, Jim Will Fix it, which ran between nineteen seventy five and nineteen ninety four. Like he that's one of his shows on the air for decades, Like we know how hard it is to just like sell a show.

That's never even going to be made.

To have a show for decades, that's a long time. And this Roger guy said he suspected no wrongdoing, but oftentimes grown men just do not see the signs, Like maybe you know, people that are more vulnerable would Yeah, but this producer said that one time Jimmy stayed over at their family home and he put jim in the bedroom next to their fourteen year old daughter. Like that's how not suspicious he was. And that Staman's from October

Enough and I think he regrets that now.

But they just talked about the rumors and Saville denied all of them, and through visited him in his home in Scarborough where Saville's mother lived, and he had many homes. He had like I wouldn't say, but he had like a ton of homes, more than a handful of homes all over and again more places to.

Fucking less people.

But in this home that was like where his mom lived, and through said that Saville had a continuing attachment to her twenty seven years after her death. He would have referred to her as the duchess and kept all of her clothing and stuff. So, you know, mother son relationship, so is difficult. Good luck out there, Kara. There were rumors and whispers and murmurs he was a sexual predator, but they never stuck and nobody believed that Jimmy could do that. Figures from the music and TV industry said

It's like they didn't want to press charges.

Maybe they were worried about like retaliation in some way, or they would be too hard for the kid to testify.

Who knows.

Yeah, but this is like a classic like where there's smoke, there's fire. You just don't have all these accusations about somebody when it's totally not true.

Well except in that sview episode and.

Distant voices, yes, but that was like in one isolated time period.

This is like over time and time.

I think that's why she keeps saying, like it's been twelve years he's been at this school and nothing, you know, Like, but I hear what you're saying. Yeah, So Saville was interviewed under caution. Basically he said the allegations have been invented by the people and that they just wanted money.

He just said everyone is after his money, which is.

What Michael Jackson always was saying. That was always like the Michael Jackson defense too, right.

I never knew that he even made any statements.

Everybody, well, I think people would that's like how they would discredit the witnesses in general, is just say they want money.

And it's like if they were molested and they want money, I'm okay with that. You know.

He threatened to take legal action against the police, and he mentioned that he had sued five papers in the past, so he threatened legal action. So nothing ever happens, and then the handle breaks after his death, So all these people sat on the info and he was laid to rest very respectfully October twenty ninth, twenty eleven, I mean like a full parade, okay. He had a golden casket, he like in honor of him. He was a very

He was eighty four.

He was able to kind of live this criminal life for so long, had a hero funeral.

Then the stories came out, infuriating.

One woman recalled Savile sexually assaulting her when she was sixteen and that he told her you won't talk about this nobody will believe you.

I'm Jimmy Saville. I can get you.

She remembers telling her mother, who didn't believe her, and she never talked about it again.

Oh.

Another account from a woman who was raped by him at age twelve said when she complained to a nurse, she was told not to say anything otherwise the nurse would get in trouble. Another victim than eleven was systemically abused by Savil in the hospital chapel during services. That's how arrogant this guy was during services. And Malcolm Gladwell, in a New Yorker piece about Sandusky, just kind of talked about how the most prolific pedophiles are rarely the

With children, you know. And that's kind of this thing.

It's like, be more worried about the likable person, right, not what we're always taught, but the truth. In twenty thirteen, Scotland Yard reveals two hundred and thirteen criminal offenses across twenty eight police forces between nineteen fifty five and two thousand and nine. Seventy four percent of his victims were children,

That was part of his personality.

But it's like, of course you hate children if you're abusing children, Like that makes sense.

But in that.

Documentary that through did, and I watched a clip of this, he asks him like, well, you know, why do you why do you hate kids so much?

Why do you insist on talking about how you hate children?

And he is quoted saying we live in a very funny world and it's easier for me as a single man, I say I don't like children, because that puts a lot of salacious, tabloid people off the hunt. What an innocent sounding answer, you know, like that is so guilty sounding.

Yeah.

So by twenty fourteen, in June, the BBC Panorama confirms at least five hundred reports of abuse. The BBC then sets up their own three year independent investigation to scrutinize its own behavior and culture during the years that employed him, and that was from nineteen sixty four to two thousand and seven. Dame Janet Smith, a retired judge, concluded in her seven hundred page report that he had raped at least eight people during his tenure at BBC, including one

Oh my god, come on, oh my god, right, pubic care trophies on display.

And this guy's still alive. He's ninety one and out of jail and he got out. Yeah that's what I mean. He maybe served thirty months, like he.

Oh my god.

Yeah yeah, and he's pissed about is that he had to serve time. But back to Savile, The psychologist Oliver James wrote that he believed Savile was afflicted with psychopathy, machiavellianism, and narcissism, and that he must have had a fantastical inner life that like that was super grandiose, wild and desperate and then.

That's the end of that. But then I was watching it was a little too much.

But I was watching the ITV documentary and one of the victims of him goes, he fumble around in my knickers and I'm like, that's too silly to mean rape, you know what I mean, Like, it's just.

Such a fucked up thing.

But fumble around in my knickers is such a silly sentence.

But she was describing being assaultant.

Yeah, don't let anybody fumble around in your knickers kids.

No, And can the Brits come up with more serious language like this is too silly? But yeah, so that's why this case is so fucked and it's stuck with me for years, and I was not excited to research it, but like to dive a little deeper because it's like, wait, so he's a necrophiliac.

It's like sick children.

It's all over, it's in the BBC, it's everywhere, and for decades, and he does look like a criminal.

God, that is just so heartbreaking.

It's just so gross when somebody is allowed to just walk around with impunity and then just fucking die without ever being punished or really having a day of grief in his whole life over his crimes.

Yeah, and they said, we have a friend like this, Hopefully she's not doing fucked up shit. But like he liked to keep all his friends separate and all his friend groups separate. Oh, and he had all of his different houses. Those were all like the friends, and he just kept everyone very far apart, so no one got to truly know him, and everyone only knew parts of him and they couldn't communicate with each other. So he was very smart about keeping people separate and not getting too close to people.

Yeah, because when your friends com mingle, they start to like compare notes.

Yeah, you know.

Wow, well, Lisa, that was terrible, but thank you for all your work.

Yeah, and it's fucked up because it's like, so, now, are we supposed to be suspicious of anyone that's charitable? I know, anyone that wants to volunteer at a hospital. Are we going to raise our eyebrow and follow them around? Like where do we draw the line to, Like, are you a molester? You just a great person that likes to help people?

You don't know?

Yeah, no, more millionaires than millionaires in the hospital helping hands on just give checks. You're not allowed to go in and be near anybody.

Sorry.

Let's check out our interview. I'm excited for who we talk to. All Right, I'm so excited for today's guest because she played Lizzie Sanderson on a show that I famously am obsessed with called The Grinder on Fox. She's also been on Criminal Minds, Gray's Anatomy, but you guys know her as Brooke Allen from this episode of SBU.

Check out our little chat ski with Hannah Hayes.

Hannah, We're so excited you're here.

It is Hannah, just so you know.

Oh it's Hannah, thank you, But you.

Know, what potato potato?

You know, no as coming to you as a Kara who is not a Carra.

I feel your I feel the struggle, and we will absolutely become you understand.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

And I'm a Lisa that's not Eliza, and you only have one end.

It's truly our fault.

It's from Hannah Maui. That's that's where it.

Came from, your little Hawaii baby.

My biological father was born and raised there.

Oh, I know, I love it. I go almost every birthday. I didn't get to go this birthday, but it was.

It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite places in the world.

What island do you go to?

Mostly a wahu Okay?

But and I've never been to hup to Hanna Maui, which is just a crime that I haven't been there yet because I have been to Hawaii like seventeen times in my.

Life, but I've just never made it to the road to Hanna. So that's definitely on the bucket list.

And were you always theater kid? Acting? When did you get into it?

I didn't come from a family that was very theatrical. My grandmother is you know, she's amazing. She should have been kind of been a movie star, so I kind of got that from her. But it's been fostered from a very young age.

But I was never like in the right environment for it.

But when I was ten, I kind of entered myself in an acting competition out of like they like trained in Tucson, Arizona, and then there was a big contest I'm sure, I don't know if you've heard of it, Like I amta it's like where all the Barbizon kind of goes there.

Yeah, so this is exciting. I did that.

Yeah, I did that, and I like.

Won a couple things, and my mom was like, I mean, you know, she had me at forty four. She was like, I.

Guess I'll retire and we can do your thing out here. And I was like, let's.

Go, girl, And we moved to La when I was ten. It was supposed to be for six months and it ended up being ten years.

So wow.

So the show obviously shoots in New York. Did you did your mom go with you? She had to be on set. You were young, right, yeah?

Yeah?

How old were you were? You like thirteen?

I think I was fifteen?

Oh fifteen.

I'm not positive. It's kind of bulblurs.

But yeah, I taped it in Santa Monica, pait my audition, and then.

Yeah, we flew out to New York and it was great.

Were you a fan of SVU before you did the show or no?

I mean, of course, like I would sneak and watch it at my you know, if my grandma had it on or someone had gone.

I love to watch it.

And I think Marishka is just amazing in every possible conceivable way, and so I knew her more so than like you like watch the show, So that's I was really excited to work with her.

That was like my number one thing.

But yeah, I saw it every you know, in passing, and I think it's amazing. But honestly, those procedurals and just they give me nightmares. They give me so many nightmares, and so I have to.

Be careful, you know.

Yeah, we definitely have had issues with going to bed right after doing research on these crimes and having some wild dreams.

So I'm sure we feel that.

Do you ever get nightmares listening to our podcast or my favorite murder?

Well, I have a rule, So my rule is I can only listen to them in the morning, because you know, as we said, before it gets it gets kind of scary later at night. So I've adopted my grandmother's rule of like making.

Sure I laugh before I go to bed.

So I'll always watch like Seinfeld or listen to like a funny podcast before I go to bed, and save my murder podcast for it the morning when it's light outside and I don't have to worry about what's under my bed.

So yeah, let's talk about your turn on this episode Dissonant Voices. You're this like innocent little blondie until you're not. You're very diabolical, right, Your character should have focused on acting, because just quite a few scenes where she's talking about the hard strings, like we think she's been molested. How did you get into the headspace to play such a like unhinged teenager?

Gosh, that's a really good question.

Or were you an unhinged teenager and it wasn't that much of a stretch.

No, I was not an unhinged teenager at all.

Like I'm a very strict rule follower, you know, I like to think I have a very strong moral compass, and so that it was far from from my everyday life.

Thank goodness.

So I think in scenes like that, in the scene where I'm sitting on the bed and Marishka's there and I'm talking about mister Jackie and how.

He may have touched me and or.

He did, you know, I say he did, I just kind of put myself in a place where it's like, this is the truth. The character has to believe that this is the truth in order for the scene to play, in order for the pivot to be so like to be so jarring for the audience.

So Meisner is the main kind of method that I use.

And so just kind of like having an intention and like creating my truth for the scene and then kind of playing off of.

The other actors in the scene.

So that's that's kind of I created my own little reality for each one of those scenes, and it mostly was like, this is the truth, this is what happened. This girl is having such like a psychological break from from not getting on American Diva that she has like spun this this truth for herself to kind of help cope.

And she sometimes you know.

If you tell yourself something enough, you kind of believe it to be true. And so that's kind of the stance that I took in the in the beginning and then kind of what it starts to unravel, like, you know, I dealt with that separately, but that's kind of what I did for the majority of the episode.

And then how was it?

What was the process for the like final freak out scene where you're in interrogation, your mom's there and everything like that is so good?

It was so exciting.

Thank you. I mean, yeah, it was amazing.

And Kelly Kiddish was so helpful for me in that scene because you know what we saw on on you know, in the final cut, she was she was angry and she was like trying to pick at me, but she was pretty composed, right, But when I was on my coverage instead of like she really helped me. I'm trying to articulate it, but like she was like screaming at me. She was screaming at me, saying a whole bunch of stuff to help me like understand that like this is I'm caught, Like this is over, you know, and this

You know, fifteen year old girl's.

Worst nightmare should be like in a perfect world, like you know, not being able to find the right pair of shoes or whatever.

You know, like, but in this, in this scene.

This girl has put herself in a position where, you know, she could go to jail. The rest of her life is ruined. She is ruined a man's career, She has ruined de Mand's entire life. And I don't think she understands the gravity of her actions until that moment, and it's very profound and terrifying, like she, I don't know, just breaks and so that's kind of what I did. And when I was screaming like I didn't do this to mister Jackie, like he did this to me, you know,

What was it like working with your little brother Jonah, He was very cute, he was.

So cute, he was fabulous. Oh my gosh him and his name escapes me right now. With the other little boy.

Yeah, Cooper is the character. I don't know his real name, Cooper.

Yeah, so Cooper and Noah.

They were both just so precious and I loved like when we were on set, we all had to do school at that age. You know, it was really nice because I don't think they had any idea like the gravity of what was going on, you know, the characters that they were playing, which I think is so important, especially at that age. You know, like they went in and they did their stuff, but then afterwards they were like, do you want to go play hot wheels? You know,

That's so cute. And are you a singer? Do you sing at all?

You know? I dabble.

I I'm writing an album right now, and my friend is yeah, which is like super random. It was something that I did kind of like as therapy, Like I find writing to be very therapeutic. And one of my friends is a super super talented producer in LA and so I was like, hey, here's some that I've just been playing around with and I can't read music, but I like to sing this, and he was like, let's do an album.

Like we should definitely do that. So I'm actually recording an album when I go back to LA.

That's awesome. So you are a singer.

Yeah, I mean.

Actor first and foremost, but I love all things creative, you know, So.

Any other stories from set that you think that someone like you would want to hear Iced Tea?

What was iced Tea was his viol Oh.

We haven't even talked about how improv calling Iced tea bitch.

No, I didn't know who you improvised that.

That's amazing I did, and it was quite bold of me in retrospect, quite bold.

I was just like, in that moment, I see was fabulous.

So his wife was amazing, their dogs were incredible, nothing but fabulous things to say.

But it was so funny because.

In that last take, I don't know what came over me, but I was just like he just like he's said something like you must be.

Really proud of your daughter.

Yeah, and then I just did without even I mean I think I like blacked out, like I just was like, bitch and then just walked out. It made the final cut like it and so and I walked on the door and he goes, did she just.

Call me a bitch?

And I was like, I was.

Like, oh my god, I just called them a bit.

So that was definitely one for a moment for the for the memory books.

You know, amazing, not that many people get to fucking call I see a bitch.

Congratulations.

Well, also, we should have talked about this up top, but you did send us amazing presents, and I couldn't believe it.

First guest to have sent us presents just to heads up to four future guests.

I really enjoyed it.

Well, I'd like that he put somewhere you know, my name, like a plaque or something.

No, I love it. So for yeah, it was.

We got Alexander Dumas books and they're like classic. I feel like, so, I haven't held a book like this since so long. So I'm wondering, are you a vintage person or you a crime reader?

Or are you?

But like, how did you find this? How do you know we would love it? What's your vibe?

Okay, well, I think I thought you would love it because obviously I listened to the podcast every week religiously. But I love thrifting. It's one of my favorite things. Like I most everything I wear is either like a family heirloom like my rings or whatever, or thrifted like my whole outfit whatever, And so I love to go to Savers.

It's really my happy place. And wherever there's a Savers.

I've heard there was a Savers here in Rhode Island, Like I cannot wait to go. So I was in sabers in twoson Arizona, and I was looking through all the old books and I saw those and I was like, this looks like it would kind of be in their wheelhouse.

And so I brought them home.

Dusted a moth, used to a little lisole, and and then.

I wrapped them with I got.

I also got this really cool like Life magazine coffee table book.

There, and I think I used some of the pictures from that.

Yeah, like we were like we realized later we were like the wrapping is on theme too, like it was amazing tension to detail.

Thank you.

Yeah, I just wrapped them up in that and I just I, you know, I like to show my appreciation and anyway, like I just anyway I can so.

And then Kara loves the grinder. I love the grinder. Grider. Yeah, I love the grinder too.

Honestly, I've talked about it more than once on this podcast, but I've definitely said, like, what a crime that people did not discover that show, like truly, like it was so so funny. I loved it so much. When I got canceled, I was devastated. But how was that experience?

It was absolutely like unreal. I mean it was unreal.

I met some of my best friends in Los Angeles, like Connor who played my little brother, Like he and I are still close. I was literally at his house the last day I was in LA And his older sister is like a close friend of mine. That whole family's amazing. So it just gave me so many gifts, you know, Like Johnny Lowe and I still talk. I think he's incredible. And just to get a little personal for a minute, like I just got sober two and a half months ago, just because you know, it just wasn't.

Serving me anymore.

And and so he's sober and like taught, Like you know, he's public about that, so I wouldn't say anything if it wasn't public. But like you know, I just I have such a great support group from that from that show, like Mary Elizabeth who played My Mama, Like we're still intact. I'm gonna I just sent with the same day I sent you guys your present. I sent her like a present, and I sent her the little Son to present and and and we're gonna get coffee when I come back.

Had no idea what was going on, and like so insecure.

And like the women on that show, like Maya Rudolph and Mary Elizabeth and Natalie Morales, like they really were so empowering.

They were so empowering.

And kind of like helped me see that like I belonged there, you know, like I deserved to be there.

I worked hard to be there. And Natalie Morales, I was just I just did her movie plan.

B Oh amazing. Did you direct that?

She directed it?

Yeah?

Cool. So for me, Grinder was kind of like the beginning really the beginning of like all of my closest friendships in La.

Hannah was incredible.

Yeah, we always we're enjoying talking to these young actors who are like good people. It's giving me faith in the future.

Yeah, and I like, we edited this out from the interview, but she was like in a bed and that was kind of exciting. Maybe she didn't want people to know, but it felt loungey, it felt cool. She was on vacation where Taylor Swift has a home. It just was a high class interview all around. And I want to watch The Grinder now.

Yes, love the Grinder so much, and that she improvised the bitch line. Are you fucking kidding me?

Yes, this is the kind of behind the scenes gold that we're bringing to you on this podcast.

Oh my god, I forgot to mention this up top, but I have huge news. I caught up and I finished this last season of SVU.

I saw the Careesi rollins kiss. Oh my god.

I saw the psychopath boy come back and kill his family.

So I thought people would.

What was your thoughts on the kiss? Anti climactic honestly, but happy.

I hope it.

I hope I hope it continued. I hope I hope he gets what he wants. I hope she's able to receive the love she deserves and he's able to have the family that he's always wanted.

Yeah, I wonder if, like in the new season, they're going to like disclose to Olivia or like keep it secret, or they all.

Watch them kiss. They all watched it kiss.

You think Benson, one of the greatest detectives of our time, at.

Our back turn the whole time while they were making.

Out, doesn't know that there's chemistry when Careese's like, only rollins is good. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely not the thing.

I also have one other big set of news, but I forgot.

So what did we Let's do our post mortem on this episode. What did we learn? What I mean, I guess we've learned people in power do abuse their power all the time.

A s F.

You decided to flip this episode to the point like where this is a false activisation, but.

So flip because that's what's so tough is.

Black men are falsely accused all the time, and there's like you, centuries of history.

I don't know what to say.

Yeah, there, yes, there are centuries I mean Emmett till there's centuries of racism of white women accusing black men of doing things that they did not do. And that's essentially what happened here. I mean, it was white children, but they were it was all being masterminded by a white woman, a white teen.

And also Carrie, you better watch what you do around Rosy. So she's not out there false accusing black powerful man.

I mean, Rosie would never because Rosie's going to be on American Diva and she's going to win American Diva because I am her tiger mom. No, just kidding, Are you kidding? Rosie's playing rugby and you know it. I know she's so I can't even tell if she can sing. She likes to sing, but I can't tell if she can carry a Tuneya, I don't know how soon they do that?

Do you really want her to? Yeah?

I think two is too young to decide if they're going to be singers for the rest of their lives.

Well, the woman on this episode was like, I saw a kid on the internet who was three singing opera.

Yeah, that's you know one kid. Yeah that's not your mine. Yeah, that's not mine, that's not yeah, I can't who knows. Maybe Rosie will be an opera singer.

I don't.

Yeah, bust out an aria here and there. I guess I learned that. Like if you're having a horrible, drag out divorce with your husband, like just keep an eye on your kids because they're following a lot of your diabolical tactics.

Like I remember the next thing I was going to say that was in my heart and mind.

Okay, remember the iced tea titty sucking comment from last week? Wait what Ice teammate a social media posts being like, oh, I said my daughter we both like to suck on Coco's titties. And everyone was like Ice, could you just what is happening? And then he wrote whatever I guess you know about my family. I'm a tit guy.

It's like and like, yeah, babe, they like they posted at they posted a like I'm I love We obviously love Chanelle's Instagram. We stand her, but it was a little weird to have, like to have her speaking at Like the captions are like in her voice, Like I have an Instagram for Rosie and I never write anything in her voice. I just write like Saturday fun or like very generic stuff because like I never assume that she's saying something, And like this whole caption is like, yeah,

Okay, anyways, Episode dissonant voices.

What did we learn?

I guess if you're gonna use a vibrator illegally and commit crimes, don't hide it with the rest of the toys.

I don't you know what I mean, hide your crimes or to the police.

If there's an evidence thing that's so blatant, it's fake, it's set.

Yeah, it's a setup.

If there's gone girl evidence that's so over the top, you gotta you gotta suspect. Okay, Like if someone's abusing kids and has gotten away with it, they're not leaving the vibrator.

With the maraccas. Okay, Yeah, I.

Will say something I learned this episode was like a little bit more respect. I learned myself a little bit more respect for Rollins. I kind of feel like there's some episodes that are Rollins heavy that are turning me around on Rollins a little bit. She knew from the beginning that this didn't pass the smell test. She knew at the beginning that this was like seemed a little bit weird.

I never Oh my god, men's health, Carara, where have you been.

Like, God, Liza, this is the most unhinged post mortem we have ever done.

But I'm loving. Well, this is what happens when we're not three blocks away.

I know this is Yes, the Men's Health, Maloney's PR team.

Give them all the awards.

I mean they are the summer of Maloney is just raging on, like just when you think it's over. Oh, his co star who I love this girl his co star on OC named Ainsley Seeger I think is her name. She's amazing. She I think she listened to our podcast. She follows she got the earrings that like the tiny made ear rings that are of Maloney and yes, order Peam, you got them?

You got them? Ahlet re order them. They're on the way, tiny maid. We're coming.

Then, thanks for all the listeners tagging us in them, because I will have those earrings soon.

Yeah.

But she wore them two set and took like video to see how long it was until he noticed and then he like, I think it took like fifteen minutes or something for him to notice that she was wearing him as ear rings.

And how did he react?

They like took Q photos together. She was like detailing the whole thing on her Twitter. It was really funny. And then like just like so, just as like the Mabelene picture is starting to fade, that starts happening. Then just as that's fading, Men's Health comes out. It's like this, man, we're never gonna get when it's never gonna be over.

I love the Men's Health one.

I felt like the interview one was very gay gay oriented, like, hey, I'm your daddy, you know. Yeah, I'm wearing pink, I'm eating pizza, a little crop top, Fuck me, daddy. I feel Men's Health is very heteronormative sexual.

I'm sure the gays are into it.

And it's also very like, look how good you can look at sixty. I think it's like it's like all about his age and how he looks so fucking good for his age.

Yeah, the split I really was into that. I really really liked it. I was actually at the comedy store last week with Seratia and a few people and they hadn't seen it, but they like SVU, so I brought it up and then I liked it in front of them and they all thought it was so funny and started laughing at me because they're like, wow, you're just they thought it was vulnerable to like something in front of an audience, like in front of them, And I was like, I don't care.

I like it while you're looking or not looking.

Like all their likes are surreptitious, like in bed, like in the dark.

Yeah, they were like they started laughing at me for like liking it. I was like, I like it. I don't know what to say, but yeah, that was like sexy as hell.

Yeah.

No, that man knows how to take a photograph and do a split and lift weights. I mean he does a lot of things really well.

And you're right, six he looks hotter.

I think he looks hotter and more built now than before, you know.

Yeah, and I think this is like new season.

He's going into oc with like a full like not beer, but like full go tea.

It's like a fold. It's not like a little go t. It's a full go tea.

Yeah.

Yeah, go go go oh nothing go white lotus. Oh.

And I was gonna say the Woodstock Documentary, we were not allowed to each the part for this long, like we just read just circled around and are doing another intro right now.

We'll just in a voice we'll talk about White Lotus next week because we have seen the finale.

And then we can't really get into it perfect. We won't doil.

But if you haven't seen White Lotus, yeah, there is a little true crime element hidden, I would say, yeah, but scathing, dark satire genius show.

It's so good.

It's so fucking good. Like the whole vibe, the acting is so good. Uh, you kind of hate everybody on it, but you love it. I don't know, I love it. It's so good. Let's segue into Let's sister Peglan. Just think of one more thing we learned from this episode.

I guess I didn't realize you have to take voice lessons that much. Five voice lessons, you know. I He's like, if you really want to, I know.

It's it's weird because it's like I think we all watched Kelly Clarkson win and she was just like a Texast girl with a great voice, and now she's like a huge recording artist, but she just like wandered on to you know, American idol. I think that it used to be probably more anybody could walk off on the street with like a like a great talent, but now it's like, if you're like a teenager and you want to like make it and you want to get on one.

Of these shows, Yeah, you get a vocal coach and you fucking.

Like Edwards dancers are going to be in America's got talent. They have been before, I believe, and I know they're going to be again. And I watched her full show Dancing Queen.

I love it.

I've been rewatchingdrag Race NonStop and it is just so soothing and so powerful and so good, so good.

I gotta get going on another season. I finished both seasons of UK. I've just finished Australia before I left on this trip. Anyway, we got to end. Now, this is it. Now we're fully into what we're watching again, like we can't stop talking about it.

I just gasped because I thought maybe it's Thursday and there would be more drag Race.

But okay, oh I'm not caught up on last week's All Stars, by the way, So no spoilers.

I have no idea who got sent home. No spoilers.

Listen dissonant voices, do your voice listens. Don't false accuse black man. You can false accuse a white man here and there, just to keep life interesting.

Yeah, great, a great episode. Get vaccinated. But also, I mean what we learned from like Jimmy Savile and that whole crime was that like don't I don't know, Like I hope people can come forward even though like there's horrible like listen to power and celebrity.

Yeah, everyone is a molester. Everyone, Everyone is a sexual abuser unless proven otherwise. That's how we have to live life. Unless it's Billy Porter, No, nothing makes sense. You're right, this is a very unhinged episode. But yeah, I was so focused on the episode and everything else we've been watching, I forgot that there's an actual crime spanning decades.

Yeah, and we.

All if you have kids, if you're a teacher, anything like you, we have to be more conscious of how we talk about Like when the Kavanaugh stuff was happening, I remember being so distraught because I was like, there are kids that are being abused right now that are listening to their parents talk shit about doctor Blassie Ford.

And you know how Kavanaugh's.

Great, and like these kids, like kids see what's happening, and you are making it tougher for them to come. I don't think our listeners, but it's just like fucking know how you like act better when someone comes forward with some information like that and stop fucking not coming forward for jobs or for newspaper articles or chairs like fucking.

We got to stop protecting celebrities. And no one gets a key to a hospital. How about that?

You, Yeah, how much you donate, you don't get open access to a psychiatric hospital.

In your own room to be your little molesting hotel room.

And you know what, sometimes you go to judge a book by its cover. Okay, if you look like Jimmy Savill, maybe I don't get why people just kept it kept it moving. It's a scary person.

So true.

All right, let's let's really truly move on to what would sister peg do.

I was just gonna say, Mike White, who wrote White Lotus wrote Orange County, one of my favorite movies in Skyler Fisk, who's from Taboo SVU is in it.

So if you need something to do.

Ties right back to the White Lotus conversation from minutes earlier.

Okay, what was its third Times of Charm?

This is our weekly segment where we talk to you guys about a organization. We give you a book or an article or something that can kind of help you flesh out the topic that we touched on in this week's episode. We've mentioned this organization before, but I think they're worth mentioning again. We're going to highlight RAIN, which is the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network. It's the

It's really inappropriate because this is such a great organization, but in my head I just kept going RAIN on me. Okay, next week's episode will be Patrimonial Burden.

That is straight from the request line.

Yeah, we've been getting a lot of requests for that baby.

Yeah.

Season seventeen, episode seven, Join us on that journey Hulu Peacock and what is it? A VPN stick if you're in Germany or England or Yeah, you.

Have to just go get a VPN.

If you live in another country and you want to get these episodes, basically you pretend you're in America.

Andy. You keep sending us stuff on Instagram and writing to each other and us and filling us in on everything that's happening in the sv world and dragging.

And if you're not following us on Instagram, follow us on Instagram at That's Mussed Up Pod because Lisa is fucking turning it out with these games and the stories.

They're so good.

I felt, they're really fun, I felt, and if you miss them when they were twenty four hours, I saved them as a highlight so that you can always go through. You can't vote anymore, but you can go through and see how like the matchups did and it's still fun and in your mind you can make your choices.

But that's We'll see you guys next week. Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod and follow us personally at Kara Klank.

And at Glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.

And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson.

And to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork.

Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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