Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Done done, Hello, and welcome to another episode of That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
I'm Kara Klink and I'm.
Lee's A Traeger and here we talk SVU true crime and we have cool guests and we're living a dream.
Jk No. We are micro microlife, great, Macrolife.
Every every perspective that's good micro Macrolife. Yeah, macrolife, losing our rights every second of the day, microlife.
I know, I'm doing a show and these people from Dallas or in the front and I went, how does it feel visiting?
Do you feel free? Do you feel fun?
And they had a nice little chuckle. I do want to say, I mean, we're in the time machine whatever. But Thanksgiving weekend, my family already pre bought tickets to see Wicked that Friday. On Friday, Yeah, the grandma's, me and my sister and the niece. Where I'll go in how fun? Yeah at a two pm. And my sister's like, whoa, there's barely any tickets.
I go. Yeah, I've been telling you for weeks, this is a big deal, Like.
You're going to Wicked on Thanksgiving and I'm going to Mawana too. I mean I'm excited. You know, I'm excited for ma Wana too, but Wicked. I really want to see Mawana. I really want to see Wicked. I just have to figure out who's gonna go with me. Yeah, I don't know. I just I know I'm gonna cry. I don't know what. There's just a lot of crying. There has been, like not that I would expect anything
last I mean, it is like a huge thing. And I've actually been hearing that the movie is good, like review wise, I think people are saying it is awesome.
I've just it's been so much marketing. I mean, you know, we.
Watch Housewives side like I Rebecca bing cough they did that full like so I actually, I mean, who knows everyone on the internet is a grifter.
But I happened upon like some marketing girl podcast and they were saying that it's actually places paying to license Wicked stuff and make products. It's not like Wicked is paying these people. It's not like a marketing thing where it's like, ah, ge get with this company. It's these companies being like could we please license it for our eyeshadow or whatnot.
And so it does seem like a lot.
Because it is, but it's because people are trying to capitalize on it or like these businesses and whatnot. I also was like, I don't know, it's split whatever. And then I saw these influencers going and doing a go before and after and everyone was in tears, and I go, oh, I cry just hearing defying grad like on the radio.
Not that it's on the radio, but.
And I think it really feels like and maybe they're just great actresses, but like Cynthia Rivo and Arianna seem like they have like a genuine friendship in.
Real theater kids, that's a lot of the TikTok too, people being like why do they keep crying? And it's like have you never done theater? Have you ever talked to somebody in a play? Yeah? Like these are mania and I mean just watching the Cynthia but I'm just
not as familiar with her as obviously Ariana Grande. But the I reposted this, but it was it's a video of her because John im chu is saying, He's like the fact that this bitch is doing her own stunts flying in the air, acting and singing is very few people in the world could do something like that.
Like I think she is like the.
Singular talent, and I'm excited to see how they're live singing in ropes, flying in the.
Air, Like, yeah, that must have been on your that must have been your in so that I saw that because I was watching a whole video of her with those fucking blue flips and it looks intense.
Yeah, and that yeah, whatever, I'm like really excited for things.
Well.
Also, you know, it was both my nephew's birthdays. One respects and does like me, and the other he likes vineyard vines and it's an issue and I think I've talked about it.
He is, like the transformation into bro is really moving forward. Vineyard vines. Oh I didn't tell you this. Yeah, Oh I didn't know about that.
Yeah, because I was like, hey, what should I get it? You know, birthday I want to do? And they're like, vin, I go excuse me, Like that is so gross. And it's like he like looks up to his cousins who are live in the South, so it's like they don't know any better. And you know, he he's young, and so I was like, Okay, I'm not going to change him, but I'm gonna get him nicer stuff, like better stuff of that genre. I can do that for him. But I'm old, so I don't actually know the cool stuff.
So I've been sourcing. I've been asking people. I've been trying to get brands of stuff that you know, the kids will think is cool. And then there were two twenty two year olds in the front row of a show and I was like, oh my god, you're young boys. Can you help me? And I go what about LA Costs? And I go, well, Notla Costs? And I go, okay, this is good. This is good, thank you. I need this feedback. This is so funny. And so they told me Barber bar bou r As was that is so fucking preppy.
And when I went to college, every girl wore a Barber jacket, like that is such a preppy brand. But it's like, I think it's British or something, so it is, yeah,
and I guess it's on succession a lot. But the sweatshirts all having in huge letters because then I bothered everyone at the cellar as well, and I was like, what do you guys know like, and someone was like, no, it's an old money brand, so like he should like if he were a sweatshirt and it said Barber, like that's kind of gross, and I was like, okay, fuck.
So I found a fleece and I've just been like searching these brands, like trying to impress them, and then I enlisted my other nephew's girlfriend.
I was like, why do I keep asking? They're old people? Like I have the source, so I actually oh. And then someone recommended Perry Ellis and I loved it and it looked so cute.
It's the skinhead brand. Did you know that?
No?
What?
Yes?
Before the purchase, Yeah, I google is Perry Ellis cool and it's all the reddits were skinhead, skinhead, proud boy, Nazi like Berlin, can you wear it in Berlin?
And I go, oh my god, thank god, No, Wow, you dodged a bullet with the Google. Good job.
Yeah.
So I'm really impressed with myself. It's not preppy, but I think because what I'm trying to show my nephew is like I'm actually cooler than anyone else you want to look up to, Like.
I'm in the know, you know what I mean, Like I'm cool.
So I got kiss, Okay, I bought ben Jerry Seinfeld. Yeah, but also the the dad from Succession did a campaign and their whole thing is like off kilter or like older peace. Well, because Maggie Smith, I feel like, did a campaign with that or did she know someone else sold? Then she had a last campaign, but it might not be with them, no lueve loev oh what.
Whatever? So I did Kith, and I was like, what is this? Praise this?
And then finally Benji's girlfriend was just like, trust me, he'll be happy with anything.
Kith. And his whole thing is like brands and like money and all that.
And so I got him like a sweatshirt, crew neck sweatshirt and a hat with the logos and it's all kids.
Yeah.
And then Benji's a little more calm, so I got him. It looks so cool. It's like a knitted sweater but a hoodie ooh yeah. And I know he'll like it because he's a little more hippie and chill. But I'm really excited. So you guys will find out how they reacted to the kith and if I'm cool or not.
See, but if you.
Also have brands going formate gift giver, You're you're researching, you're talking to the people. You're out there, like honestly, you this is why you have a skill.
But he likes like the quarter zips, but the one had stripes, and his dad was like, it kind of reminds us of the concentration camp. You can't do it, And I like, go, okay, I won't do it. Quarter zips like reminds me of old That's so funny. But I had stripes. Yeah, they didn't want it. That's so funny that.
Barber is back, because that was like the smell of barber jackets. They smell like Crayola crayons because it's like there's like a waxy thing on it, and it's like it will always remind me of college. Like if I smell someone in a barber jacket, I'm like college, of course. But then also to a surprise that will shock you very little, is that there is a vineyard vines in my hometown.
So I feel like your.
Nephew would love a shopping spree in Old New Kingaan, Connecticut.
It's just not even that expense.
That's what I'm I'm like, I'm like, honey, I got you, Like, stop looking up to these cause I just it's like.
Whales and watermelons and little embroidered belts and stuff like that.
It's very preppy. It's just like preppy stuff.
I know Kith isn't preppy, but hopefully you know he likes Travis Scott, which is cool. Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about. Like, I really don't even know. So when those little boys went well not la cost I go, oh my god. Okay, let's good.
Wait, let me ask you a question. Do you remember when your sister gave your nissa nephew's cell phones. No, it's been like a huge convo with like me and other moms and like just people that.
Well, I like what our friend did where it's like a kid Apple watch thing but it's only texts the parents or something.
Yes, like yeah, it's like like caul.
And text just parents, and I think it geolocates so like you can track them or whatever.
Yeah, so yeah, that is definitely the thing.
But like moms were talking about, like, well, what do you do when like they're ten or eleven and like all their friends have a full phone and you're and I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm holding out till fourteen. I think I'm just gonna have to be the jerk parent. But the parents are like, you have to,
you have to, you have to join together. Like there are schools where they do pledges to say, let's all not give our kid a phone till after eighth grade, like they and they ask all the parents to like sign the pledge.
I don't know, Yeah, but isn't the new thing. Were you talking about this? Or maybe it's someone else where. It's like their house you get exactly this house you don't. And we're all different. Different houses have different rules. Oh my god, let me tell you what happened. Let me
tell you what happened for different houses, different rules. Okay, So my friend was over here with her kid, who's Rosie's friend, and she's really cool, she's not like an up aty mom, but she did say the kids were like, we're not allowed to have skittles and the mom goes, it's the only candy. I say no too, because she's from the UK, and she's like, it's literally banned in other countries, like the red dye is supposed to be really bad, so it's the only one I say no too.
And I was like, okay, I just I honestly like, I feel like I read that and then I thought they changed it, and so I've never really like given much thought to It's not like my kids are having Skittles on the daily.
So then the next day and she kind of explains that, and Rosie hears it. And then the next day we're at ice skating and her friend alex gives her an osky each a little pack of Skittles, and Rosie's like, we can't have this. This is toxic.
You can't.
These are bad for your body. And I go, Rosie, that's the rule in their house. That's not even the rule in our house. And that's not the rule for Alexander, So don't don't say that. So I'm trying to like, I'm trying to like, you know, be like, you know, different rules, different houses. So we get home and Rosie goes, I know, let's take the skittles and put them in a cup of water and then the dye will come off and I can just eat them without the dye
on them. And Jared goes, yeah, right, that's gonna take forever. We stick the skittles in the water. The dye comes off in seconds. And my kids are just sitting there eating white skittles, and Jared is like, we need to call a science fair. Rosie is a genius. I don't know. I'm sure they still and they taste good. The dye is just for college. It's just the dye. They taste the same. They're just sitting there. We dried them, we strained them, we dried them off. They were eating white skittles.
I was never like, we have to be off skined. Skittles are such a rare occur, like it's Halloween whatever that once they eat a couple bags of skittles, they get a Halloween. It's not like I'm constantly bringing skittles into the home. But I just thought it was so funny that Rosie was like innovation.
Hold on, I've got an idea anything to get skittles.
Anything, And I was gonna get on anyway.
I don't, I don't know, I don't. That's just not where I go candy. I never was a starbarst Skittles person. I always wanted chocolate as a kid, and then like I love gummies now, but again, like I would never.
Buy skittles or Starburst.
I'll have a red one if it's around. That's what I mean.
It's like if i'm if they're getting a skittle, it's a kid's from someone else bringing into the home, because we're really chocolate people. But also, how is the die on a skittle different than the die on an M and M.
I should look that up.
I'm not asking you like like you like you should be telling me the answer. I'm just kind of thinking out loud, like I don't know. There's just so many things we're supposed to worry about. The phones, the skittles. All right, well, I gotta maybe I'll ask your sister. I'll be like, when to do phones? How do you control phones? I don't know. I'm nervous about phones. I feel like, Oh, my friend was telling me her kid is in a study. He's like the control of the study.
And it's like you and this scientist told her, like you, you cannot believe how much it's fucking kids up, like the screens, like having phones and iPads and stuff.
She's like it.
Literally you were seeing scoliosis and stuff like and joints like nexts, next posture, spine, spinal curvature because of like how they're bent down.
Look, well, I don't know why we're shocked, Like we as adults have no control over it. We're all addicted, I know, hours a day, so I don't know, like that's my whole thing. I'm like, well, I want to be on it, so like why would I? But like it was causing long term effects.
But the interesting thing was that they were saying TV's not as bad because it's far away from you. Like when you're watching it, like there's peripheral stuff happening in your vision. You're like, oh, my brother's playing, my dad's getting a phone call, it whatever, Like you're seeing other stuff like in around you when you're watching TV. But like if it's it's the up closeness of like the phone and the iPad that just kind of like you're just zoned into that world and like nothing else.
I saw really funny TikTok and it was a woman going, Hey, if you're a parent worrying about screen time, I want you to know that my kids have zero We do zero screen time, and they're the worst kids.
I've ever met.
I love that. That helps me so much.
Thank you.
She was like, so screens or no screens, these kids suck, so do what you want to do. And then, of course in the comments there is someone who was like, well, we have unlimited screen time and my kids the best.
And it's like, okay, but yeah, I thought that there's a million fucking factors. But that is so funny. I love to hear that. I mean, you know, I let my kids watch a ton of TV and movies and stuff. We don't have iPads or anything, but we do TV. The movie is also attention. You have to pay attention forurs. It's exact ten second YouTube slot and you don't know who is.
It's just like a girl, hi guy, I hate it. Yeah.
Yeah, Like I don't do the YouTube because I think that that's like him. Well had I had a woman tell me, she goes, that's the one thing the horse I wish I could put back in the barn is YouTube. Like I wish I didn't let my kids just like blindly watch YouTube because it's like, uh, it's like they can't watch a movie, they can't do anything for long periods of time. The attention span is completely fucked.
I think it doesn't fucking matter.
And if they feel left out, they feel left out, and then they can bitch about you. Like I just I don't think you should give in. I think you should stand strong no matter what the people around you are doing. I know.
And it's like I wasn't allowed to watch TV during the week and I'm obsessed with TV, and so am I gonna make them obsessed with their phones even more?
Who knows what can I do?
I can't control it, but I'm trying to just know of it until their brain's done developing.
It's not about obsession. It's about the curvature of their spine.
I know, you know what I mean. It's not like and a dude, they're gonna love it more.
It's they're they're truly ruining their I mean, the people that work in tech don't let their kids phones. The phones are in the kitchen like anyone that's close to it, and look around.
It's same.
There's a comic whose aunt worked on the team who made microwaves, and guess what, the bitch has never used a microwave in her life. Like, if the people on the inside are not doing it, you should either.
Right right, that's so yeah. Well this is coming out on a December third.
Happy Today is a Simpsons trivia night.
I wonder if I can make it or not. We'll see. Yeah, you gotta get back there. Oh and I'm on the road.
So this weekend, I'm actually in Cincinnati, so I'm gonna go to the Zoo on Saturday. But shows it's at the Commonwealth and my friend Tommy McNamara is opening, who's like really funny, And then I keep writing It's December ninth, and for people, I'm in red Bank, New Jersey on December nineteenth, which.
Is so cute. Red Bank is such a cute town. Oh great, Did I ever tell you about the job I had when I worked for the I worked for Illumination, the company that made the Minions before the Minions movie came out, Like I was, I saw the Minions before they ever hit those streets. And I would commute from New York to Red Bank two hours each way, but only every other week, and the every other week I could stay home, and so I thought it was worth it.
It was not worth it, but Red Bank is so cute, like it's so got.
It's a really cute town.
So go see Lisa red Bank if you want to find legit and then links.
Oh yeah, well, and then December twenty first, I'm at the Bellhouse in New York. And then twenty twenty five dates we could worry about. Yeah, then I don't know.
But don't just google Lisa Cincinnati because I feel like sometimes you get shitty links. So go to That's Messed Up Live dot com if you want, or Lisa's Instagram and those both take you to like the official link trees that have all of the ticket links to those shows.
No, hopefully you're all noticing my front facing videos. She's out there, she's marketing, she's promoting. But also while you're at Thought's Messed Up Live, you can go to our shop link and get tons of our fun merch We've got do you have children detective stuff. We also have a new Christmas ornament. You have to order by December twelfth in order to get stuff by Christmas, so get
on there. Orders over seventy five, get free shipping, grab yourself some That's Messed Up Love for Christmas, or you know, leave a little note for the leave the browser open for your partner or friend, who's looking for a gift idea for you? And that's that on that should we get started on the episode?
Yeah, let's go okay today, this one is a rough one. We are doing Decaying Morality Season sixteen, episode thirteen.
But it reminds me of defying gravity. But it's not just you and I Decaying Morality. Yeah, it's one of the worst. I texted care I started watching and I go, oh no, this one, please, no, I don't want to do this one. No, this is one of the worst, and I have yeah do it?
Yeah, yeah, okay, So yeah, this baby came out in twenty.
And Haley Lou, I mean it's exciting.
Yeah, it's exciting but dark but amazing actors, so many storylines at once. Yeah, I'm excited to Did you feel like it was a more recent episode? It is, but then it wasn't like I thought it was truly season twenty something and it's season what fifteen to sixteen, like and it's almost ten years old, like this episode it's crazy. It is weird for me when I was shocked when I saw it. Actually, yeah, because one of my cases too, it like started right before this, but it didn't.
End till twenty twenty three.
Wow.
So at first I went, oh, this is probably a wiki mistake, and then I was like, oh, it's like it was ongoing, and so I yeah, yeah, buckle up, Buckle up those who uh don't watch.
Because yeah, here we go. Yeah, a lot of twists and turns and nothing good. But you know, we love the show, so we and so we persist.
We open on.
Live and Rollins at a coffee shop, just having a little girl's night.
It's nighttime.
Rollins has been on a little hiatus the last two episodes, since the Forgiving Rollins episode, which we've covered, where the old Atlanta Boys came to town and she had to deal with all their raping asses and you know, she had to confess that like, shit wasn't great when she was down in Atlanta.
So she apparently just.
Got back from a yoga retreat in Costa Rica, and who's paying for that?
Yeah, I'm also like, I.
Kind of don't buy that for Rollins, but whatever, I'm like, you're like a you're like an adrenaline junkie.
You're not gonna like you know, she was so zen.
She said she didn't even flinch when a yogi tapped her on her shoulder while she was meditating at the summit of a volcano. It's like, I don't know, I don't see this for Rollins, you know.
What I see she she was fucking a few people. Yeah, I think she was fucking some people in this little Hawaii uh volcano getaway.
Absolutely absolutely and lives like, okay, cool, so you'll stay in therapy, and Rollins just kind of rolls over and it's like, I'm just really sorry for what I put you guys through, and lives like, girl, I'm sorry for what you've been through, and you know, classic as a
VU trope. Meanwhile, same night, on in another part of the city, a young girl is walking through the New York City streets and from her point of view, men are just harassing her NonStop, Like the camera is at her point of view and she's just trying to She looks a little bit shaken, and men just keep being like, hey, mommy, where are you going, Like what's up girl, like blah blah blah, and she's like heavy breathing.
She looks traumatized.
It is Haley lou Richardson, who has been working for so long but really came into my life the most through White Lotus season two is where I really feel like she popped playing Portia. I did see Split, but I don't remember her specifically, but her.
White Lotus character.
I feel got a lot of attention for the wardrobe and how bad it was, but how particular it was to this character.
And I just like she was so good.
That character was so good, that was so funny character like a like like, you know, a lot of assistance to rich people are played the same way all the time, and Porscha was so like what like she just had no idea and was so got completely wrapped up in an insane storyline. And yeah, she's a great character. I can't wait to see more from Haley Lou. It is funny that her name does sound like Hallolu, which is
Angela's catchphrase. But this poor girl, just like stress, walks right past Rollins and Benson's cute little girl's night okay, which they also love to do. Now she's in a nasty bathroom of a pizza place and she's still.
Which is like the most unrealistic thing has done that. You could just waltz into a pizza spot and use the bathroom. I don't think so no way, no, not unless you're buying a slice, babe. And I just don't feel like I've ever gotten to use the bathroom in a slice place.
Ever.
I don't think I have. I can't think of it. I can't think of one.
Yeah, I mean it's fine.
New York is a real gauntlet if you have to pee, it really is. It's like you got to really figure out the places that you can go. But she is splashing water on her face. She's looks really upset. Someone keeps knocking on the door, and he's like, I have customers waiting.
Are you okay?
And there?
What are you doing? What are you doing? Then he comes in and he's like you're okay. I got you, I got you, And she's like no, please leave me alone, and then the camera pans away and it looks like classic s few, like, fuck, something bad is about to happen.
This girl's about to get assaulted in the bathroom.
Rollinson Lives step outside into the cold New York City night and their outerwear talking about how Amorro's had a bad month, and I'm like.
When has he ever had a good month?
And like Noah's asthma's flaring up like everyone's got problems. And as they're about to call it a night, they see an altercation between the girl and the pizza place guy outside and he's like, I'm trying to give you your purse, and she's screaming accusing him he took my purse. He attacked me, and then she goes he raped me, and so Live cuffs the guy and credits all right, So.
And we have to say the dude is black and she is white.
So yes, yes, the guy at the pizza place is a is a black guy, and so it's not you know, it's a it's a bad situation for everybody that she's just like, it's also crazy that there's just two SBU cops hanging out nearby, you know. So at the hospital we find out that the girl's name is Jenna, that Haley Loew's name is Jenna, and she had alcohol and clonaza pan in her system. And I swear to god, we've talked about a lot of drugs on the show. They say clonaza pan like ninety times in this episode.
I had to write so many oh my god, so much Cleanazapan. There was bruising possible semen on the sweater and evidence of a Tornheimen and Rollins is like, wow, this guy rapes a semi conscious sixteen year old virgin on the floor of a pizzeria bathroom and lives like, welcome back, babe. And so now we're in interrogation. The pizza place guy is being questioned by Amorrow and Careesi
and he's like, you guys got it all wrong. I was trying to help her and the guys and he goes, I know you cops all hate me, but I didn't do this. And Tomorrow's like, we don't even know you. And the guy's like, well, now I know you're messing with me. And then Finn pops in and pulls the boys out while the pizza place guy is like puffing on his inhaler. There's a lot of asthma in this episode. Finn explains to Tomorrow and Careesi that this guy is
the Jerome Jones. He's one of the Prospect Park three and they are three kids that were held on a gang rape charge. All three of them confessed, then they got off because of some DNA to contamination issue with the lab. Then all three of them recanted and saying the confessions were coerced and they have a thirty six million dollar lawsuit pending with the city, and so the guys are horned to keep talking to Jerome, but Finn's like Barbara says, go easy on him until he gets there.
So now back to Live is at the hospital talking to Jenna's parents. The dad is played by Jamie McShane, who has been in a million things, like he's in Bloodline, He's in a ton of shows that I've watched, and another s of you that he's in is we've covered is called The Burden of Our Choices where that little girl Evangeline comes from Ohio to get an abortion because her dad, her fucking stepdad, impregnated her, and he's he plays her priest who's like God wants this baby whatever.
So now he's here.
Later as he's now here as the dad, I'm sorry, I think that Burden of Our Choices is a later episode, so he's the dad here and then later he's the priest. The mom is Eva Kaminski. She was also in the episode Cold, which is the episode where everyone thinks Chester Lake killed someone and he's like on the run the whole time, but I don't actually know who she plays
in that episode. Anyway, they're obviously upset. They tell them they have a suspect in custody, and then they're telling them there were tracing Jenna's like steps from earlier in the day, like she had a dentist appointment, and then she never came home, and the dentist is on his way, and Ben's makes a face like what, I'm sorry you called your dentist to come to the hospital, and they're like, no,
he's Jenna's uncle, the mom's brother. He consults for the NYPD as well, and they want to make sure everyone's taking the shit seriously, so obviously, you know here he comes. They say Jenna doesn't drink, she doesn't do drugs, she's a straight A student, and I'm like, you know, you can do both. Just FYI like, you can drink and do drugs and also gets trade. A's uncle dentist shows up and he is played by Paul Adelstein.
Who I really like him. I think he's attractive. I'm into what's his name, Paul Adelstein. Yes, I like Paul Adelstein. Well, it's crazy because he plays a lot of shitty guys, like he.
Was at show, Like I recognize him also from a show I barely ever watched, but because it was on Bravo, obviously I absorbed The Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, Oh, which he plays.
The ex husband of the main character. And that show. Oh, and I'm sure he's like a tool.
Yeah. And then and also in this show Chance that I watched, which is the show starring the guy from House, he plays like an extremely abusive husband. So I've seen him in a bunch of things where he's like a very bad but.
You know, and not that theater people can't be bad, but it's like he does play bad, but I'm sure he's just such a little theater dork in his yeah, true spirit.
Yeah, but yeah, physically he's hot. Yeah.
And he's here. He's doctor Alexander and Benson knows him immediately. She's like, yes, I recognize you from all of the dentistry cases that we've had to have you testify at she's been and and she was like, I recognize you from the case of Ellie Porter. And he calls her the burnt Girl, and you know, I think that makes live fluinch a little bit. And he says, yeah, listen, Jenna was in for an appointment. I gave her some
leighta Kane and Nitriss, but those were off fast. She was fine when she left, and now Jenna is waking up, so they all, like, you know, rush to her room, and he says to the parents, he's like, you should go to like you should be there. When she's talking to the cops, she doesn't remember how she got to the pizza parlor. She remembers leaving uncle dentist Neil. His name is Neil, the dentist. She remembers leaving Uncle Neil's and then going to her friend Kara's place to study
I love It Lucky Yeah, another Kara. She denies drinking, but says she felt sick at Kara's, so she must have decided to leave. She remembers going to the pizza place to go to the bathroom, and then she mentions the guy coming into the bathroom. She remembers that's when it gets hazy. She remembers being cold the sweater, her sweater and her skirt were pushed up. His belly was rubbing against hers. It hurt, but she couldn't move. He
got it all over her. She says she's apologizing to her dad, who looks like extremely shook and it is traumatizing to have to recount all of this in front of your parents.
And he tells her it's not your fault.
And at the precinct, Barbara breezes in in a tux now looking dapper as hell, like he has just come from some kind of met galas.
Or not met Gala.
He's come from like some kind of policeman's ball where the tickets are, and they tell him about the sweater seamen, which could either nail the guy or if it's not his, he like, you know, Jerome has grounds for another false arrests lawsuit and they'll be all working in Staten Island, which apparently is the worst nightmare for all of these cops. And Barba's like, well, let me go alone. Yes, yeah, Barba's like, let him go until this case is air tight.
This guy's waiting on a thirty six million dollar judgment that from the city that he's probably gonna get he is not a flight risk. And someone has to tell Live that they're cutting this guy loose and caresee's the new guy, so he gets the short straw. So Lives now on the phone annoyed because she's like, but Jenna, I did him, and she tells Careesi to talk to the coworkers, rush the DNA and get security footage from
the pizza place. So she gets interrupted by Uncle Dentist who's like, well, my dental connects at one PP just told me that you cut my niece's rapist loose.
What the fuck?
And then he tells the dad Luke and also that the suspect is one of the Prospect Park three. He goes and the dad goes, oh, he's one of them, a known thug rapist who got off on a technicality, which is like, look, the whole sentence is fully coded in racism. And Uncle Dentist is gassing Luke up too. He's like telling him about the lawsuit, that's why they're giving him special treatment, and Benson's like, we just need more evidence. We're still working on the case. But the
dad is like, who's pulling your strings? Al Sharpton, and then the dad storms off, So, you know, sadly, I think this dad did vote for Trump.
At the precinct.
The download from Kara's family is that Jenna's backpack is still there, but that they were not partying, but Jenna did look kind of Green when she left. Around six o'clock, traffic cameras have Jenna on the street heading to the pizza place. Ten minutes later, she leaves. They're getting terru on the footage from inside the pizza place because there was like a glitch and they obviously need Taru to like,
you know, clean it up. Live's phone rings, and before she picks it up, she calls him, Barbara, I can hear it, and it is there, tid cool she.
Does call it.
She goes, Barber's gonna want us to get on this or whatever, and so if you guys want to see it. End of act one of this episode, we get a Barbara from Live uh oh music swells Live is not getting good news on the phone, and she says, we don't need to put a rush on that DNA anymore. Cut to a crime scene. Forensics is already there taking photos.
Jenna's dad, Luke, is cuffed and looking despondent. Then, once Finn and Caresy arrive on the scene, they pan to the floor where Jerome is lying they're dead, near a tripod and a camera, and Luke is like, I was just trying to get him to record a confession. I didn't mean to kill him, but there's a chair with rope and Caresee's like, this doesn't look like an accident and he's not wrong. So now after the commercial break, we're seeing footage of the forced confession session where Jerome
is tied to a chair. Luke has a nail gun and just keeps like nailing nails into the wall right behind him, demanding that he confess to what he did to his daughter, and Luke keeps saying.
Nothing, nothing.
Jerome is coughing, He's begging the guy to stop. Luke is threatening to shoot the nail gun through his dick, and Jerome's like, okay, okay, I did it. I raped her, and then he starts saying my chest, I need air. He's coughing, and then they stop the video. I mean, thank god, I really did not want somebody to watch somebody suffocate on camera. They stop the video, Finn goes. It goes on from there. Luke did give CPR, but the medical examiner says he died from a heart attack triggered by asthma.
Luke called nine one one. He didn't mean to kill the guy.
Barba's like, it does not matter, Luke Davis is looking at felony murder, which, as we remember I've only learned through the course of doing this podcast, is when you kill somebody in the course of committing another crime, Like even though it's not like a planned murder, you did kill someone while you were doing so it's felony murder, which Careese is like, yeah, but he'll get off if he can prove extreme emotional duress, and Barbara goes boo, yeah,
fordam law, which feels like it feels like he's kind of being condescending but also giving a compliment like classic Barbera and Benson's like, we need to push the DNA and the tar oo footage from the pizza place to see if this guy is good for Jenna's attack. If he's the guy, no jury is gonna convict Luke, and Barba's like, cool, thanks. If you guys come to a raiment, keep your mouth shut, like I don't need you to be like helping get this guy off.
So now at a round.
I don't like that they're so gung ho about trying to get him off. They're like, it's I don't know, I don't like it. It's just like duress are not like this young man died without core. Its thing, and we don't know white woman, black man, Like I don't know. We believe victims here at SVU, but like, what the fuck. I don't care if he gave CPR, he was stressed, what happened to his daughter. I'm not I'm devastated. Yeah,
it's really hate the scene I get. And you someone who has asthma, how does that feel?
Yes, it's I it's scary. I mean like it is really like I don't know, it's ares me. But also I think like they are like I love this actor Jamie McShane, but like they're lightly coding this guy as like racist. He's immediately jumping to the fact that and this guy that's like I have to It's like you can't just let the cops do their job. You're like, I have to go seek justice, like I have to
go take care of my baby girl or whatever. And I think that's a little bit why we are not like finding a lot of sympathy for him, even though he did not want this to happen at least at this moment. Okay, So now at arraignment, Luke is represented by none other than Lorenzo D'sapio and if you'll remember, he is the attorney who entered into a relationship with his client, Kim rolins, Oh, so.
I wouldn't say not what is it, Vincenzo.
What his name Lorenzo, Direpio, Lorenzo. She's always like, well, mister D'sapio says, and then she starts calling him Lorenzo because now they're in a relationship, like because Kim is a freaking crazy person. So he's pleading not guilty for Luke mister Dasapio, and the courtroom erupts like. Jerome's family is all in there. They're furious. The mother is so upset,
she's crying. She's going he killed my baby. Barbara wants remand D'sapio wants ro r. The judge is like, sorry, no vigilantes aloud, and he sets the bail at one million dollars. Jerome's family cheers when they hear the bail amount. Jenna is there like apologizing, hugging her dad. Uncle dentist is like, we're gonna get you out. So in the hallway, Jerome's mom is talking to the press and telling them the NYPD framed my son for this. Rape for the
original rape and now they're doing it again. They set them up to be killed. She points to Jenna.
Looking that great for him though too, it's like multiple accusations at this point. Yeah, one false accusation. Okay too, that's you.
Know, right right, And then she sees Jenna points at her calls are a liar, goes, you killed my son, and Cariesi arrives with more bad news. Taru got the camera footage. Jerome was in the bathroom for less than two minutes, so now they're watching the video and Cariese's giving the play by play. She goes into the bathroom for eight minutes. A line forms again, who are all the people waiting in line to use this disgusting pizza bathroom?
But anyway, a line forms. Jerome knocks. He goes in at six point thirty and he's in there for ninety seconds with the bathroom door ajar the whole time, like if you were going to be attacking, you would close it, lock it behind you whatever. He follows her out with her purse. She has her clothes and tights on. The tights is the clincher too, because it's like, yeah, we've seen people commit rapes very quickly on this show. Remember the episode contact. I mean that is between two subway stops.
But we all we know as ladies, tights are not coming on and off in a quick way, you know, like tights are and he's fully closed. So maybe Jenna was assaulted first and conflated things Live suggests and they're like, or she's a sixteen year old girl who got drunk sex and was afraid to tell her parents and lives like go check with her friends, find out how she got the clonaza pan.
We're back on the.
Cut to jail where Jenna and her mom are talking to Luke through the glass with the phones right, like what do you call that? What do you call that little phone booth like on you know where you get to talk through the phones.
Oh, I never thought about my official name. Hopefully you never have to use one of those carats.
I hope I never have to, but maybe, like but in an acting scene or something, Yeah, to be like I wired you the money.
It should be coming through. There should be money in your commissary. Now that's my audition. I had the glass, yeah and go I'm thinking of you baby.
Yeah, So okay, the mom is going, well, they're saying this guy is innocent, and Luke's like yeah, but Neil, who is uncle dentist, is saying it's just politics, and he's like the dad asks Jenna, he did this to you, right, and Jenna's like, I mean, even if I'm not sure, it's better if I just say it was right, it's better for you. And then uh oh, honey, watch a
television show. They record those convos, so they cut to Jenna in wood room Blinds talking to Amarl and Rollins and they're like playing her the time, like.
You can't even shower in private, and you think you get to just go on the phone with no.
Yeah, no, yeah. So they're like, so, hey, girl, what do you mean when you said that? She's like, I won't do anything to like fuck over my dad, and they tell her, well, we know it wasn't Jerome, but we do think something happened to you. And now outside of this woodroom blind's interrogation, Jenna's mom is mad that she can't go in, but Finn and Careesi are trying to just convince her to chill so that Jenna will like spill, you know, which is like it's like much
easier without your parents there. She's already had to like give all the details about like semen in front of her dad and mom. So so, Jenna finally admits she had a couple sits from a vodka bottle, but no pills or drugs when she was at Kara's house, because you know how we party at Kara's house, guys, we get the vodka bottle passing. So after Kara's house, her
memory gets fuzzy. She remembers she was sitting during the attack, and Rollins goes show us, which they've never done anything like that before, Like I've never seen them be like acted out right now, and they make her like lean back in the chair. She leans back, She looks up. She remembers sliding down in the chair. She says, I was holding onto the arm rests. I remember his belt buckle clinked over and over. He pulled up my sweater. I couldn't move. His hands were so cold. They asked
her was there any watch? Was there jewelry? She goes a big ring like and then she stops herself and she goes, don't tell my mom please, Like she's clearly very worried for how much this has already affected her family. And then she goes a ring like my uncle Neil wears and she's like, I think it was him, and they say think or no, and she says it was him. My uncle Neil raped he raped me.
It's like the bit.
It's such a twist, but it's like, I also kind of know when you see the uncle come in Paul Adelstein, and you're like, he's got a lot of IMDb credits, Like, I don't think he's just coming in to be supportive uncle who works for the NYPD, you.
Know, No, And yeah, for me, it was the NYPD of it all, like, yeah, oh what a smart movie, little rape guy, you have volunteer for the cops exactly.
So Benson and CREESI are behind the glass and Caresa goes an uncle would do her?
Uncle did it?
I can't believe that and lives like yeah that what how long have you been? I mean it's like season sixteen. Haven't you been here for a minute?
Like we're we're seeing.
Uncles do this kind of shit all the time. Back at Live's office, they're figuring all this out. Barbara's not psyched. He's like, aside from being an NYPD consultant. He's big on the charity circuit. They were probably at the same black tie event earlier this episode, and he sets up dental clinics in third world countries.
I don't give a shit.
Remember Jimmy Saville, wasn't he like a huge charity guy too. He's testified in dozens of cases. If he's convicted, all those cases are under scrutiny, which it is wild how many times somebody directly involved with the NYPD does something fucked up and they have to be like all those cases, like if it's not Rudnick, this guy judges like all kinds of people that have testified, and Jenna has no motive to lie. They're like, she remembers the ring, the details line up with a dental DT.
Do you think she lied in the beginning and because she was scared and there is gil or do you think she really was in like a psychosis kind of state.
I think you could be so traumatized by someone you trust and know, who's a member of your family doing that to you, that she could have totally been in like a like a fugue state of like just complete trauma of like that happening plus the fact that she was on these drugs, you know, like kleanazepan is gonna make you all fucked up.
So that fucked with her memory.
Yea.
So I don't think she was lying on purpose about Jerome. I'd like to think not. But so they were like, yeah, she remembers the ring, and all the details line up with the dental office, including the clonazapan. Finn's like, this is why I don't trust dentists, and I just lol, I mean, like that's so good, Like when he just never goes to the dentist he doesn't trust them, or like he brings someone to watch while he goes under.
I just went to the dentist yesterday. You know, I love we usaid this. I miss him. I miss him.
I actually I don't know what I'm gonna do. It was a really pleasant experience. So I'm on the journey, okay.
And then Benson's like, why is the DNA on the sweater taking so long? So she tells Amorrow and Careesi, why don't you buddy up to uncle dentist and get his DNA. So at his office they're talking to him.
Like a pal.
They're like, hey, bro, like you're basically a cop, like we are, you know, let's talk bro to bro, you know. They're like, we're just trying to get all the Evans together so we can pin this on Jerome, and we just need your DNA so we can rule you out because obviously you're the greatest guy in the world. And then a hygienist comes in and Neil introduces her as his wife, Jaya. They also then she's like, come on, you have another patient, So right before he leaves, they're like, can we swab you?
And he's like sure.
So then Jaya is getting them a list of all the patients and explaining that anti anxiety drugs would be around, but they're usually locked up, and they're like, well, they have been in the room during Jenna's appointment, and she's like, oh my god, yeah, totally, it's totally possible.
They were in the room.
And she's a teen now, and you know teens are thieving drug users. So yeah. So outside, Amorrow and Careesi are talking about how they clocked how quick the wife wanted to paint Jenna as like a drugged out teen, and that she's obviously protecting her husband, like helping set up the story. At the precinct, the guys are telling the gang they think the wife stood guard for him while he did this attack, and that she's the only one with access to the back rooms. It's a really
small office. Theer's like a receptionist up front, and then it's just her and him in the back. So Benson is now gaming out a working theory. Jaya gives Jenna the drug in the chair, then the nitress. She's out of it, can't process the but she's in pain. After she does a couple shots at her friend's house that mixes with the meds, that's when she gets all out of it, and then the whole encounter with Jerome happens. Finn gets a call done done. The DNA sweater seamen
belongs to uncle dentist. Okay, we're closing in. They bring him in and they're like, what's up, bro, We just found JIZ on your niece's sweater and it's yours. And he's like, oh man, you're not gonna believe this embarrassing story, but please keep it quiet. My wife and I are so horny for each other. I boned her in the chair. We had a little quickie before in between patients and.
Yeah, she was coming in, but I thought I would just you know, fuck my wife, yeah quick in the office.
Then I pulled out, sprayed my jis everywhere, didn't clean it up, and let my niece come into the office and rub her sweater on it. And he's like, it's nothing I really want my patience to read about.
And they're like, oh, yes, of course.
But the thing is, Jenna says you raped her, and he's like what that It's impossible and horrifying, and he's like, you know, nitrous can cause hallucinations, and Jaya said she helped herself to some klnazepan. So now like suddenly these too are united front about the klnazepan and she had alcohol in her system and all this could lead her to accuse her uncle of rape. Then he threatens them with a lawsuit if they keep this up, and he
storms out, and Rollins is like it's true. Well, Rollins is like he's kind of right, Like this isn't the most air tight case with all the drugs and booze involved. But they also realized that if this dude raped his own niece with his wife right there.
This was not his first offense.
Okay, yeah, So she tells them give it a full court press. She wants uncle dentists in cuffs. This is what Live does. So now we're all checking in. Everyone's been looking looking, looking for more stuff to incriminate the dentist, and Robins found an old lawsuit that was settled, but that was not about bad dentistry. They have to see if Barba can possibly get along around the confidential of it all. In walks Jenna and her mom and they're like.
The mom's like, Jenna needs to tell you something. So now in Live's office, Jenna is fully recanting. She's like, I shouldn't have said that uncle Neil did this. She's not saying he didn't do this, She's saying, I shouldn't have said that uncle Neil did this. Her therapist said that she was confused and that trauma and drugs and
alcohol can mess with short term memory. And now Jenna's mom is saying that Jenna was suggestible at the time and that when she left Jenna alone with the cops, they planted the idea in her head.
So the mom goes, you're.
Framing my brother and you're using my daughter to do it, and Barba's like, oh did he tell you that? Who referred you to this therapist? And the mom is doubling down. She's like, don't try to twist it. And it's like, no, did your brother refer to you to the therapist or what? And like it is hard to watch how.
She is so like, well, it reminds me of the Natasha Leone episode too.
Yes, fuck these uncles yo.
Yeah, absolutely never trusts an uncle except my brothers are good.
It is true. I do like uncle, I do like.
And I love my own uncles. I don't have a single creepy uncle like I my uncle. Like, I had an uncle who suffered from schizophrenia and he told me the craziest stories and he would tell me perverted jokes all the time, and I never felt uncomfortable around him. He was great.
Well, I have an uncle put a knife to my throat as a joke. So I have a fucking creepy pun I guess yeah, yikes own the salami factory?
Wait what about the salami factory?
He owned it?
Oh, we owned a Hey, before I ate meet I would have really liked to have met him, because I do love salami. No, I just kidding the knife cancels that out. Okay, so they're like, how about the sweater semen? And how was it found inside your sweat? Because they were like what about the sweater semen? And the mom goes he explained how that got there, and they're like inside her sweater, which is the first time they're talking about that.
This was the semen was in it. It wasn't like on a sleeve. It was like.
Sloppy, are you with your come when you're fucking raping your knees? Like I lean up your giz like that's so confident, I know, I know so gross. And the mom was just like plugging her ears. She's like a la la la, and Jenna's like, I'm not accusing my uncle. He would never do that to me.
Later, Barba's like, well there goes the whole case and lives like you need to chill. The mother is obviously pressuring Jenna there are no other victims yet, why don't we subpoena his patient list? And Careese points out that that plays right into his claim that the NYPD is on a witch hunt to get him. Finn has the idea to call the press like live you still friends with that reporter Jimmy Mack and Live goes I am
and I do owe him a drink. And remember that Jimmy Mack is the reporter played by Alec Baldwin, and he's only in one other episode. He's referred to in this episode, but he only appears in what Don't We Hate Him?
When we meet him in that episode, Jimmy Mack, Yeah, like is obnoxious. Yes, he's up to no good. I feel like he fucks with the evid or the story or like.
He fucks with the story. But then I think he makes right in the end. I think he does something at the end to like get Live back on his good side. He Jimmy is in the episode called Criminal Stories, which is a horrific episode that we've covered, and at the end of it he does write how the guy that did it did it and then try to pin it on his best friend. So he makes up it, makes it up to Benson by you know, outing this
rich guy in the press and everything. Afterwards, and they have a toast and he says he's probably going to retire, but I guess he doesn't because he's back still working for the Ledger in this episode. So Barba's like, do not leak this to the press, and they're like, well, if there are more victims, they think they're all alone, and when they find out that there are more of them, they're gonna come running. And Barba's like, I'm not hearing this. And so now top of act four and the word
is out. Baby uncle duntist rapist is giving a press conference defending himself. His wife is by his side. Carisi goes, the wife looks drugged herself. I think that would have been a good touch to have Jaya feel a little bit more drugged out in the other in the earlier part, but maybe it would have been too obvious, and Carisi goes,
he probably does her high too. Textbooks somnophiliac sleeping beauty syndrome, which is disgusting, but a lot of men have this, Like a lot of men have no problem just having sex with a woman that is completely unresponsive and it's very disturbing. Amaro goes, what's the point of that, and Finn goes, they don't talk back, and.
I'm like, I don't know, Finn, I don't love that for you.
In season sixteen, that definitely seems like a season two comment of Finn's coming back in, but I guess he's explaining why some of these more misogynistic man would do something like that. But the dentist's lawyer is a defense attorney, Sophia Crane, who she's pictured here in the press conference.
She's also defended Betty Gilpin, who was famously a teacher who had sex with a student, and she goes on to defend Gregory Yeats in the day Dream Believer episode Yeah, and she's squawking about how this says all an NYPD tactic to distract from the whole Jerown Jones thing, and liv comes in holding a copy of the New York Ledger with demon dentist rapes niece on the cover, and she's like, well, Jimmy Mack promised to leave the vic's name out of it. But whatever the move worked, the
phones have been ringing. They've got five people calling so far claiming to have been victims of the of Neil, and Benson wants to wipe the smile off this son of a bitch's face. So now all these women are in the precinct, they're all telling their stories, were cutting towards like among all of them how the dentists assaulted them, and a lot of them knew him personally. A lot of them he was friends with their parents or he
was a family friend of some kind. So eleven victims total have come forward from the past twenty years, and you know, if eleven have come forward that there's probably more like fun and fifty. Benson doesn't know if this is enough. These are all tough cases, tough to prove, especially if Jenna and Marcy refused to testify and lives like, let's go talk to Luke the dad. So the dad, Luke is at Rikers and he's back on the phone through the glass.
He gets two of these.
He gets two scenes with the phone glass Lucky and he's talking to Finn and Creasy now and he's like, Neil, no way, he's paying for my lawyer. He's stood by me. And Finn's like, stood by you or set you up? He made you like they remind him. They're like, he's the one who riled you up about Jerome. He made sure that Jenna never talked to us alone and that the parents were with her so that she couldn't really
like say anything that would make her feel uncomfortable. Sent her to his therapist to convince her that she'd invented the whole thing. Like he's done a lot of shady shit to put you in this position. They tell him, come on, man, like she remembers details. You know, she's a good girl who tells the truth. Plus sweater seamen inside this. That's when the dad's face is like fuck and he starts freaking out. He's like, I gotta go, I gotta go. You gotta get me out of here.
I have to take care of this, which is more of this like macho bullshit of like, yeah, you're actually incarcerated. You can't take care of anything. Now talk to your wife. They said, could you do that for Jenna. So now the mom Marcy is talking to the cops and telling them that Luke is on suicide watch. At Rikers, she tells them you and now you can kind of tell she's moved over to their side because she's like, three friends have called me since that story broke to say
that he molested their daughters. Two of them he groped, the third he may have raped, and I referred all of them. So now she's finally like, oh my god, getting the picture that her brother is a psychotic rapist. She's like, I don't want to put Jenna through testifying and lives like, okay, so your husband does hard time, Jerome is dead, and your brother who's a rapist just gets to walk. And Barba is like, I mean, I can see about a plea for Luke, but you gotta
get Jenna to testify. And she's like the sister goes, he too smart, you can't catch him, and they're like, your daughter can. And now it's one of my favorite things on SBU A diner sting. I love when they're at a diner. Somehow this dumbass rapist has agreed to meet with his niece and accuser at a brightly lit diner in the middle of the day.
I do want to say I recently met someone. I'm not going to give any details, but they did a They did one of these secret phone things to get their abuser, who's surveying.
He was now serving twenty eight years.
But yeah, they like got together with a detective who believed her, and they put this big thing together and she kept him on the phone and got an apology out of him without any denial, which means you admit it. Holy shit, yeah, holy shit, Yeah, that's fucking nuts. Well I'm glad it were I look, it's only legal to conversations. But you in my head, I'm like, oh, this is a movies thing. This is what they do in the movies.
But I just recently met someone that had unfortunately a really uh fucked fucked up stuff happened in heart.
But she she's.
The one that put her abuse, her away with an undercover.
She got to be I'm glad she got to be instrumental and putting his ass away for a long time. So the diners thing is happening. The whole gang is watching from a van. Finn is at the counter, you know, relaxing, eating a piece of pie. Maybe. Jenna tries to get
her uncle to admit it. He won't, and then she's like, well, I heard you paid out some of your other victims, and he vaguely is like, I'll take care of you and your mom, but like this isn't enough, like this isn't enough, like what he's saying, he's being vague about his responsibility, and he's about to leave. So Jenna pulls out the big one. She's like, I'm late. I think I'm pregnant and he's like, you're not pregnant. She's like, no, I'm late. I'm think I'm bring it.
She's yelling.
So he like shoves her back down on the table and he's like, I couldn't have gotten you pregnant. I had of aseectomy. She's like, so you did it. You raped me. And he's like it's not a big deal. You're not so special, Jenna, and she goes, I was a virgin and she says it over and over and he like does not care, and he starts to walk out, and then Finn grabs his shoulder, flashes his badge and says, I never met a bad man that wasn't afraid of a baby. Works every time and put it on a
fucking T shirt that is so good. Same again, I never met a bad man that wasn't afraid of a baby. Like the like the things that these men will do just to like get a baby out of their life, you know what I mean.
Yeah, but that was like kind of a thing on TikTok warts Like if you want, like if a man's not leaving you alone and you want him to say that you need money, yeah, say you want to be a housewife.
Yeah, yeah, I would love to just and I have a really bad shopping problem. So Rollin's and Creasy come in. They tell Jenna she did great. So now back at the precinct, Jenna tells goes to see her mom and she's like, he admitted it, he did it.
They hug.
The mom says she's so sorry. Jenna says she's sorry. I'm at least glad that these two are on the same page now and have each other. Then of course they're bringing in Neil at the exact same time, and he's a cocky psychopath.
You know.
He's like, you guys have nothing. I was calming down a paranoid girl, and they're like cool, and what about the other seventeen victims that have come forward. When Jenna's mom sees him too, she goes nuts. She runs at him, calling him a son of a bitch, which is an insult against your mutual mother. But she's like, my daughter, how could you? And he's like, Jenna has issue, she always has, and it's like I thought she was like
a good girl, straight a student. Like it's one thing in the Natasha Lee Own episode where this guy specifically fucking targets her because she is troubled, but in this one it's like she has like, now you're really grasping at straws, dude. She's like, I'm your sister. How could you do this to your own family? Live calms her down. Cariese's fingerprinting Neil, saying I should have let her get a piece of you.
Raped her daughter.
Her husband's in jail for killing a guy that should have been you, and Neil goes, you're hurting me.
I'm a dentist and I need my hands.
As if he's gonna be doing like a fucking crown tomorrow morning. Cariese crunches his fingers k which we never see Careese get, like, do any like the Stabler stuff where he throws a guy against us of a wall, or like you know a little bit of a.
Neck show got a soft boy. He's a soft boy.
But he crunches this dentist's fingers and he goes, what hurts more this? Or what you did to Jenna? Ooh, that'll teach him. Amorrow is talking to Live. Jenna's family and Jerome's family are both destroyed. How can either of them start over? Live asks and at the courthouse. Barbara is meeting with Jerome's mother. He tells her listen, Jerome was innocent. He explains what happens and how Luke was
not trying to murder your son. We have footage of him administering CPR, but a jury might let him go if we bring him to trial, if he pleads to man's he'll do time.
So it's like, it's so fucked up. Barba's kind of asking like, can I give the deal? Like I think?
And the mom is like, so he gets a deal and my innocent son is dead whose life matters to you? And Barbara basically says, I'm sorry for your loss, but it is what it is. And then that's stick wolf baby. It's so it's really it's a really fuck episode. Yeah, because that poor mom, she's just like she does.
Fill as well time she'll be fucking alive, but she deserves justice, like what you know, But he's right, a jury could side with that man.
Yeah, and that he did CPR and he called ie one one and he never actually like he never actually I wonder how he got him there? How did he get him to this like room with the chair and the wood violence, nail gun yeah, like so assault at the very least. Anyway, I'm sure we have a lot of crime to dive into.
So oh, it's not going to be a good day for anyone who wants to be in a good mood. We'll dive into it. So two cases I'm focusing on. So the first is kind of a vengeance father situation and the other is doctors up to no good in New York City.
So that is the two that we'll be doing.
I know they mentioned the Central Park five kind of lawsuit false arrest situation, but there's other episodes that we can dive into that case. It's kind of yes, it's so big and decades and to be honest, it involves her stupid new president, and I didn't want to talk.
Or think about him more than I have to.
And he was just such a big part of trying to put to death falsely accused young black men. So thank god he's in charge of the free world. So this is the Gary Planchet case. So Gary Plichet at the time, thirty nine years old son is kidnapped for ten days. This dad is a heavy equipment salesman and the kidnapper is Jeffrey Dasset, twenty five at the time of the crime, was a karate instructor who taught Plache's
three sons. Dosset picked up Jody the Sun at the son's eleven years old, at the Planchet home on Sunday morning, February nineteenth, nineteen eighty four. He told June the Mom Planchet, I mean, I can't okay, I can't take this as seriously as they should because their names are out of control. But he told June the Mom, like, hey, we're gonna come back in fifteen minutes. I just want to show the boy some carpet I've been laying. I mean, I'm eleven. I don't want to look at carpet being laid. I
don't under stand this boy. I don't understand this being.
A good I'm watching cartoons and I gotta go watch carpet go down.
No, but she had little clause to doubt him because he was a frequent visitor. He was an ex marine who got the boys in shape, and yeah, they love it. They loved this Korean style karate. This guy would drive them down to tournaments. So Jody the Boy who was kidnapped about the Gary was like he's he's all our best friend. And that's a quote from the Washington Post. And I'm not going to use it on any current cases or anything post Bezos buying, since it's like the
dawn of a new era. But I think you know any old reporting I can use so But and he was a classic pedophile, said Mike Barnett, who is the sheriff deputy in this case. His definition to the Washington Post of a classic pedophile is they seek out the type of situation where they can be involved on a frequent basis with kids. But they're different from rapists who hate their victims, and that they love their victims, and a very concise way to put it.
I like that it started small.
First, you ask if any students want to learn to drive, and Jodie's hand went up in the air, and he remembers like sitting on the teacher's lap and getting touched in a.
Way he didn't like.
And now he understands his boundaries were getting tested, but he didn't say anything at the time. But he would let the rest of the kids go to seven to eleven for snacks, but hold him back for extra room. So Jeffrey faced sexual abuse, you know, wrong side of the tracks. Classic kind of situation for a lot of criminals that we cover on this. He was one of seven and he was molested numerous times as a child,
though his family would only confirm one incident. But I don't know why that's yeah, Okay, Gary moved out of the family home when his marriage wasn't working.
So this is Jody's father.
So at this time, you know, the Karate lessons are happening. He's grooming these kids. He has a focus on Jody. The dad and the mom are not The marriage isn't going well, so the dad moves out August of nineteen eighty three, and that's when this creep starts hanging out more and more with June, and then the wife slash mom and Dassett do end up having an intimate relationship
with each other. So oh no, yeah, and her friends said to the Washington Post that they understand how she came to lean on this younger dude when her separation became tense, because she does have all these kids and being a MoMA's heart, sometimes you need your back blown out. Okay, So, but she was starting to be confused by all the time he was obsessed with Jody and not the other kids, just Jody all the time. And Jody was obsessed with it.
Stopped doing basketball, stopped doing football, was just karate all the time. So, but this dude was bad on all accounts. So he had bad checks, there was fraud. He had a ninth great education, he was a dropout, but he was trying to fund this karate pedophile passion project of his. So because of that, there was a lot of schemes that he owed a lot of people money, and so there was a warrant out for his arrest because of some of his money situations.
He didn't want to.
Go to jail because he couldn't see Jody, and so he kidnapped him and he went to California. After several hours after Dawsett left with her son, June became alarmed finally, so she called her brother, she called the deputy sheriff, she called a family friend, and then she drove down to Port Arthur, where Dassett was from, to help like kind of boots on the ground for herself to find her son. But they had rode a bus to la and on the way, Dawsett shaved his beard and they
checked into a motel. Four days went by, and she finally told Gary on the racquetball court that Jodi was gone, and the FBI was alerted. One week after Jody vanished. The phone ring and it was a Dassett and he warned June against telling anyone he'd called and ordered her to bring the other children and their school transcripts and let's all meet where the film Hill Street Blues was filmed or the show whatever. Wherever they're filming Hill Street
Blues is where they were staying. And he's like, come meet me here if you ever want to see Jody again. And this is according to the Washington Post, so I guess he was. But the school's transcripts it was funny to me where it's like. But he was trying to set them up in school after they all ran away, Like I don't understand, but she begged this guy. She's like, if we don't get Jody back, I can lose custody of all my kids, and that carry was threatening her. But this was a ruse that was made up by
the cops. They were like giving her lies to try to convince him. She did everything the cops said. She played along and they recorded a bunch of the calls. They phone trap traced themsel the Samoa Motel in Anaheim, California, room thirty eight blocks from Disneyland. So February twenty ninth, the FBI agents make their Jody was actually pleading to stay with him.
Oh my god.
Yeah, his blonde hair was dyed black so he could like pass him off as his son. But Jody flew home while Dawsett was indicted for aggravated kidnapping. According to Barnett, the sheriff deputy, that outside of the Orange County, California jail, he confessed to having sex with Jody and all the gory details, along with other children in the Baton rouge aia whose parents were then advised that their kids were.
Also being assaulted.
So then Barnett tells the dad about the rape, and once he heard that, the dad goes to the bar with an executive from his job and the dads He worked at a radio station WBRZ. The exec called the radio station you know, his company, and confirmed to the bartender. Right, so he goes, So the execs everyone's at the bar, He calls his job. He hangs up and then tells the bartender. Yeah, they're they're flying dasset in at nine, I know eight. So then the dad overhears this remark
and goes to the airport. So at the airport he gets a cup of coffee, he has a drink at the bar. He paces in the lobby, you know, he keeps checking flight times. He called a friend from the payphone, and that friend did try to warn police, but it was too late. So Gary whispered to the phone in the row of payphones. Here he comes, you're about to hear a shot. The friend heard what happened next, So the man is accused of so, you know, raping.
His son is getting off a.
Flight in Baton Rouge from Dallas, and they bring this criminal cuffed up home, and the dad whirled from the bank of payphones and put a thirty eight. I don't know what that means, but again to Dossa's head and fired once. And that was on Friday night, March sixteenth, nineteen eighty four.
And then he slammed the phone down.
But because there's all this press there, the shooting was viewed by millions on the nightly news. No. Yeah, So then the sheriff's deputy tells the Washington Post, and the Washington Post is shady throughout it.
You'll see more.
They call him beefy, like they have really funny adjectives for everybody. But he became the first cop to lose a prisoner on TV since Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.
So wow, that's like a thing. Damn.
He screamed, son of a bitch, Why Gary, why'd you do it? And that's according to the Washington Post. He leaped at the dad, disarmed his old friend who he's known and whose son he helped track to California. The next day, Jeff Dawst died and the dad, Planchet, was charged with seconds agree murder. He got out the next day on one hundred thousand dollars bond that was posted by a friend. His lawyer, Foster Foxy Sanders, committed him to a psych ward to portray him as a distraught
father who believed his son had been sexually abused. Foxy believed that the shooting was a justifiable homicide and that Pluchet's deep depressed depression was caused by the belief that Jody was made into a sex object by the backwater Bruce Lee.
He idolized again from.
The Washington Post like they are shady shady. March twenty eighth, nineteen eighty four, the district Attorney Aussie Brown chose not to seek an indictment, and it was from the same grand jury that indicted Ducet for the kidnapping. But a lot of the hate was because Ducet was gay, So it's kind of fucked up. Like a woman who was a bartender at the airport heard the shot and she's quoted in the Washington Post going, if the man was a homo, he got what he deserved.
Oh my god, Like okay, Linda cool quote.
When did the mom realize, like because the mom was like in a relationship with him, Like when did she realize, like just after the kidnapped, like when he did she realize, like, oh fuck, this guy was just using me to get to my son.
I really none of the stuff I went into went into like her kind of journey. Yeah, but she was suspicious like eventually that he didn't care about the other kids and it was all about Jodi, and yeah, yeah.
Because it's like it reminds me a little bit of kidnapped and plain Sight, which he covered on this pod and like, you know, just in that situation, the guy starts a relationship with the mom and the dad to try to get to the kid, But here it's just the mom.
August twenty ninth, nineteen eighty five, Fluche was given a suspended prison term and sentenced to five years probation. Judge Frank Siah of the State District Court also sentenced to undergo treatment for substance abuse and performed three hundred hours of community service work. But he was no threat to the community, according to ESPN, which covered this case. So this is the first time I think ESPN has been a source for us.
But yeah.
The New Zealand Herald did a piece on this case in twenty twenty one, stating that even though the public supported the dad's killing of the pedophile, his own son, Jodi, did not agree with his actions. He did not agree with those who think of his dad as a hero. And he's quoted in this New Zealand paper is I think for a lot of people who have not been satisfied by the American justice system, my dad stands as
a symbol of justice. My dad did what everybody says what they would do, yet only few have done it, plus he didn't go to jail. That said, I cannot and will not condone his behavior. I understand why he did what he did, but it is more important for a parent to be there to help support their child, not put themselves in a place to be prosecuted. He said, I mean, he said, I didn't want him dead. I
just wanted him to stop. Yeah, Jody now helps parents help prevent situations like this, so you know, he goes, if you tell a kid that rape or assault or not being pure hurts a child's soul, they might not want to tell anybody that they were molested because they don't want their soul to die. And that's how he felt. And his dad was extreme and always said like I'd kill anybody that touched my kids, and because of that, he didn't tell him because he knew that the dad
wasn't kidding. So that's just like a couple good advice from like a kid that was molested that I don't know if we've really heard on this podcast. And then June the mom is quoted again an ESPN I can't say it with a straight face, in response to her son saying it's bad to take a life, she goes, are you kidding? Do you know how many kids weren't molested? Because he's no longer on this earth. So but yeah, the guy got caught, he would have gone to jail.
So I don't know. Gary died in twenty fourteen from a stroke, but always maintained he would have killed the man who abused his son.
Again.
And I mean, the video and photos exist. This was life, so if you want to watch it, you can't. Whoa crazy, Yeah that's crazy. I mean, like I like what Jody says there.
It's like it is very It's like we were saying about the character in the episode. It's very male centered, and you're centering yourself to be like, I have to go avenge this thing that happened to my kid. It's like your kid probably just wants to be like comforted by their parent and not lose their parent to jail or you know, death or whatever. Like you could just make them the center of this. You know, if your kid says, Dad, go kill that guy, that's a different story.
Maybe then you feel like you've got to do it.
Yeah, Okay, this will be rage and do thing for everyone, So buckle up and you might know about this for New York.
The Robert hadd In case.
Yeah yeah, so New York City most prolific predator in New York history, according to Forbes, again a source I don't think we've used before.
This is really uh wild, Sobes.
This happened at columb University. The guynecologists that work there's accused of sexually abusing more than two hundred patients over the course of decades. And that is an underestimated number. It's closer to five hundred. And then because on any given day, this motherfucker would see twenty five to forty patients.
Several said he would see uh, he would make it seem like the exam was over and then like would turn around and just after the nurse would leave the room and set and would go, oh, I need to just check one more thing.
And that's when the assaults would happen.
So a former patient said, in that moment, her thought was, oh, no, something must be wrong. And so the fear, you know, you have fear for your baby. It's obgyn, you have fear for what's going on. You know, the doctor is like, wait, fuck, one more thing. So he really took advantage of vulnerable patients who are scared of so many things going right or wrong. And it's a new time. Like you it's your first time being pregnant. It's like crazier for your
first time at a gaynocologist's office. Like we don't really talk about what's appropriate or not or what needs to happen.
And you know, predators are really smart with who they pick.
So one patient said, like her concern for her new baby twins led her to overlook Hadden's red flags, but he was groping her after she gave birth to the twins. In these moments, he would insert his tongue or unglum fingers into women. He would fondle breasts for several minutes under the guise of an exam, but it wasn't. And this guy is fucking sick, Like he he molested miners whom years earlier he had delivered as babies.
Oh my god, so he.
Delivered a girl and then when she was sixteen he assaulted her.
Oh my god, that's horrific. Yeah, I can't.
Yeah, my faces, I am.
I've read about this. I just like, oh, yeah, it's it's wild.
How many unpressed it in quotes, unpressed it at a most terrific wild caseys. We keep finding new like yeah, because I didn't know about this. So he was a practicing doctor from nineteen eighty seven to twenty twelve, when that's when accusations like really started going in twenty twelve. But like usual, like most cases, people had been making complaints for decades. So Columbia New Columbia aided this man, helped this man, and fucked with the investigation of this man.
Fuck Columbia University. Fuck you.
So one victim i'll highlight from a pro public a piece is Lorie Kenyak And she was thirty eight at the time, and on June twenty ninth, twenty twelve, while at her doctor's office, texted her boyfriend doctor hadn't just licked my vagina. I'm shaking and freaked out. So she'd already suffered a miscarriage. She had recently undergone a spinal treatment and she was just very extra scared that it
would inc used the risk of birth defects. So when she got with a doctor at such a distinguished institution, she was feeling grateful.
There were a few.
Appointments she dismissed because she was just focused.
On her baby.
She did hear him moan He was very forceful. One time he was so forceful with his fingers that lifted her from the table.
She said, oh my god.
And then six weeks after giving birth to her uh, to her daughter, on a late Friday, like I said, June twelfth, she this is when this happened. So she froze because he looked her vagina and texted her boyfriend and then he rushed there and called the cops, and the cops came over to their house. So like he picked her up, they would go to the house. Haddn't then called the house and so the cops were at their apartment while they're listening to this voicemail from the doctor,
and the voicemail was like, oh, misunderstanding. The cops are calling them off him like whatever, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, and the NYPD who's there, said fuck him, let's go get this pig.
So oh, kind of cool. We don't really expect that from the NYPD.
And you can listen to the full voicemail in pro publica if you want, and the resources, as always are in our show notes. When he was arrested, Columbia found him a lawyer.
Oh my god.
He was arrested that night, but was released on a Monday, so that was a Friday. He was released on Monday. He received a letter from Columbia handwritten that just said, hey, if you are with a chaperone in the room with patients, you're all good and you can resume clinical activities. So the document was signed by his immediate supervisor and he succeed The president of the New York Presbyterian, which is a hospital. The Columbia Affiliated Hospital System, where he was
an attending doctor, also cc to the email. The dean of Columbia's medical school, where he was a member of the faculty back on work on Tuesday.
They let him practice for.
Five more weeks, during which eight patients said they were assaulted by him.
Oh my god.
One of the patients, on his first day back, wrote a victim impact statement pro publica that said Robert Hadden was actually permitted to return to his medical office and sexually assault me just four days after being arrested for licking up patience genitals.
Oh my god.
Columbia during this time failed to hand over evidence in its possession. Despite subpenis. The university did not tell the DA when more patients came forward.
Finally, five weeks.
After this initial arrest, they suspended him because he would not cooperate with the internal investigation. Then he took a leave of absence in September, and at the end of the year the university didn't renew his appointment, so he retired and got to just live with his wife in Jersey, Okay. Meanwhile,
the Manhattan DA's opened an investigation into this creek. Lauren Mildendorff as a prosecutor grown up in a family of and she volunteered to take the case, but it was eventually shelved in twenty thirteen, and Kean Yak was like, fuck, let's just do a civil suit. I hate this guy.
He shouldn't be practicing medicine. And in April twenty thirteen, the New York Daily News published a short item on the lawsuit, and then in July a bigger story appeared with a large photo of him and the headline that said, Guyino is Sickoh. Because of this article, women started coming forward. By June twenty fourteenth, Millendorff had gathered enough to indict. He was charged with five felonies and formist demeanors involving six women for almost two years she built her case.
He was convicted of multiple sexual assault charges in twenty sixteen, but did not serve jail time. He pled guilty in twenty sixteen to two New York State charges of criminal sex act in the third degree and forcible touching. Not one day in jail because Cyrus Vance Junior, the DA at the time time, said if Columbia had fully cooperated and might have made a difference in his office's decision to accept a plea. But this motherfucker was part of
the problem too. It's even sicker than that. So just like the in SVU Sexual not our department when we watched the show, But like it's usually an issue with the bosses and the McGraths, and like the friend Thompson's in the SVU universe, where they only want to take sex crimes that they could win. You know, it's about winning, and they don't want to take cases to court they can't win, so they didn't. They just wanted to put
this case to bed. So Hadden's attorney, this guy Kershner, came to the DA's office February twenty sixteen, and she had worked at this office, so she had connects. She was close to Vance and she asked to like, she was so close to the DA she asked him.
To preside over her wedding. Oh my god. So they had a meeting. That's when the deal was agreed to.
Millendorf was not at the meeting and was told to tell the victims that this was a win and that she was she's devastated. More than two hundred of his former patient than end up settling lawsuits against Columbia University, reaching agreements more than two hundred and thirty million dollars, and the exact figures ranged between sources. But oh yeah,
a lot of hundreds of millions of dollars. Columbia, though admitted no fault and placing the blame solely on the doctor, even though their own records show that women repeatedly trying to warn Columbia doctors and staff about had him. They had concerns in writing, and they allowed him to continue practicing. Their interviews in pro Pluboka wonders forgot her stethoscope, stepped back, saw something fucked that sent in quote shock waves all
over her body. But she didn't say anything because she didn't think her word had any weight against a doctor, and she was right. A nurse for work there from nineteen ninety later testified she saw hat and move his fingers sexually around the lady of a woman in labor every.
Time he checked for surve dilation.
But on the stand, she said, historically there's always been a hierarchy between physicians and nurses, and she felt like she didn't have a voice.
Yeah, this is like what happened with doctor death, Like if you like that, Like eventually I think a nurse did try to bring him down, but like no one listened to her forever. She filed so many complaints, like this guy's fucking killing.
People, and I forgot we did a whole other one where it was like a pedophile doctor for decades, like Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, in one of these East coast states. Yeah, yeah, and fuck the school, obviously, Columbia administrators, nurses, other doctors worked there. They covered up this fucking abuse. Anthony Dpatrow, the attorney representing the victims in the civil suit, claimed that the university staff knew about the allegations against Haddan as early
as nineteen ninety four. A complaint was sent to the acting chair of obstetrics and guy in acology department claimed that he was abusing patients. They chose to conceal his crimes and gaslight his patients, which enabled this man's behavior and so a lot of the payouts by the school. But this dude got no jail time and it's not like his personal bankup.
Why would they do. I don't get it.
And he was in the age that he would ever retired anyways, he was like in his sixties, so he was classified as the lowest level of sex offender status after this, like Sivance deal, he decided to do, which means he was not listed in New York States online Sexual offender registry either. So he did agree to for pa his medical license, but that means prosecutors dropped all other charges and agreed not to pursuit cases related to
other alleged victims. In twenty twenty, this case got kicked back up when Evelyn Yang, whose husband Andrew Yang was running for president, mentioned this case in an interview and being abused by him, and she was one of the people that came forward for the first time around case that went nowhere.
But she was a Jane Doe who but because of her.
Forty women came forward right away during this It was really fucked up. She was a Jane Doe, and they pushed and they tried to make her come forward. She came forward about this case, and then all they fucked up.
All these women came forward.
Weeks after that, Manhattan District Attorney's office announced and assigned prosecutors to open this case back up. During this trial, there was credible evidence relating to forty victims. Prosecutors asked for twenty five years and the defense argued.
For three years. Are you kidding?
The case was based around four women though that he enticed and induced the four women to travel to New York is in the New York based office where he sexually abused them. So because of the moving of state lines he had he had patients come from Pennsylvania and stuff that adds to federal charges. So his defense claimed that he was innocent and that they just fought over the fact that prosecution could not prove that the women were lured across state lines for their abuse, but that
they chose to make appointments with him. But yeah, Dedra von Durnham in quotes for to CBS News, this is his lawyer wrote, cancel him, condemn him, do not convict him of a crime he did not commit. And she said this during the trial, like okay, Ddre, you're a bitch. Her other argument was end quote, he never intended to abuse his victims. Rather, it was a spur of the moment that was uh tavy.
So there's no intent, okay, But I think if you do it two hundred times, there's intent there, babe.
That's not spur of the moment. That's fuck. This is so fun.
Yeah, kannak she's who kicked this off in twenty twelve and her and her boyfriend called the police January twenty twenty three. She sat in the witness box and when she first went to police, her daughter was six weeks old. Now she's ten. She's ten at this time. That's how
long this fucking took for this. She's Bastepoliet justice. There was a two week trial and after being found guilty, they sent him home to be with his wife and son, and one victim from the back stood up, very s of you and said, oh, so he's a sexual abuser, but we're letting him go home. So then one week later they overturned that, and he was ordered to be detained.
US marshals approached him and arrested his ass His first night behind bars, ever, was February first, So then finally on July twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, he was sentenced to twenty years in federal prison.
The judge in this I know, God.
The judge in the case, Richard Berman, said, this is a horrific case and like no other. But I'm sorry doing this podcast. It's like a lot of others. We need to stop acting shocked. Stop acting shocked every time this happens. Normal ask people commit these crimes all the time. Stop it unprecedented. No, it's not. Stop because it makes victims. It makes it scarier to come forward when you act like it's not happening all the time, because it fucking is. Yeah,
the staff knew. I mean, fuck Columbia, like I can't.
You know, my brother went to medical school there and my mother went to My mother did nursing se No.
It's known as a good school. I mean that's the thing. A lot of these patients were like thrilled to be in such an amazing institution.
Yeah, he was sixty six at the time of sentence.
And the judge said that once he gets out, he will face the lifetime of supervision after his release as well, but hopefully he dies in prison on his last day after being given for sentences of the twenty years, but they're going to be served concurrently, he said, between sobs to the judge, hold your tears, bitch, But he says, I'm very sorry for all the pain I have caused.
Fuck you. That's from pro public up.
And I just want to say personally, thank God for the bravery of the victims that came forward, and because of them they were able to get rid of this guy. You know, the school did not care about getting rid of the serial sexual predator, and the institution was unable to do so. And it's because of these fucking patients and because of these brave people that he was able to He's.
I mean, they acted the same way as the Catholic Church does or anybody that just like moves somebody around or denies.
It or make it strike a religion. These are conked out people that are like the Lord, what is this.
I know, with an institution of higher education, you're like, what the fuck?
Like that's horrific, because if your whole thing is it's not on us. We're not taking responsibility. It's all him. Then why cover up for him? If he has nothing to do with institution, You're like, yeah, it's bogus. He still denies all allegations and charges beyond the two that he pled guilty for, and even with the school's apologies, Evel and Yang had had this to say some Forbes, there's no ownership of the university's past and ongoing failures.
The apology comes from a place of self preservation and does not acknowledge that Colombia enabled and protected Hadden's abuse. Well actually, at one point embarks on a campaign to foreseeing I mentioned this earlier to reveal her identity when she first came forward. Pro Publica says that they were deeply involved in containing, deflecting, and distancing itself from the scandal at every step. Pro Publica also is like, there isn't even anything special about this guy that would make
Columbia want to protect him. It's very confusing. He was not a prompt, he was not prominent with a bunch of elite clients. That wasn't him. He wasn't attracting millions in research dollars or in demands on the academic late lecture circuit. He was just one of dozens of doctors,
outwardly unremarkable. And that's what we see, and that's what that's what this past selection represents so much, and that's why it's so heartbreaking to be a woman, like, hundreds of women were fucking molested by this guy, unremarkable, one of a dozen doctors. No one gives a shit, No one asked him to speak, he didn't do research, he
wasn't special. Celebrities didn't go to it, nothing, But they were willing to protect this fucking creep fell In rapist monster, let him go home to his wife after being found guilty, not serve jail time. So at the expense of hundreds of women, and that is what the selection is to, at the expense of minority communities like immigrants that are here, women like all like upstanding fucking citizens no matter what we do, a fucking fellon rapist as president.
Yeah, and and this guy, this guy hadn't seems like he probably went into this profession on purpose.
I would never go to a man. I would never go to a man.
I never.
Gone to a man. I would never I've never gone to a man fucking freak in my life. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it. But you know, I don't know. I'm sure people are gonna write this and go, my dad's are going to collegists and he's.
I'm sure he's a fucking creep.
All right, I'm almost done, so yeah, But it's just it's all the same. It's just like we protect gross ass men all the time and push them up and let them do whatever, and women are not listened to, trusted like I can't imagine. And in sick rapist statistics that the number of survivors in this case is about equal to those of Larry Nasser, the you know, the fucking gymnast doctor at Michigan State University, so the numbers
are very similar. Hadn't all together had an abuse at least two hundred and forty five and then additional three hundred and one victims filed for the final lawsuit and the pro problem and the pro public article links in the show notes had dozens of people who I mean, I would have been talking for another fuck an hour and a half, like dozens of people who called. There is so much personal stuff in this piece, and they
really dug deep and interviewed so many victims. Yeah, dozens of people who called made complaints, told receptionists, told referring doctors, social workers at the hospital were told about this man.
So many people came forward.
So when we tell victims, come forward, come forward, it's not about them coming forward. It's about training and getting into people's heads what to do when someone comes forward. And we're like pushing these victims to do these brave, huge things and come forward.
And then everyone failed them.
Everyone and colleges and universities all the time are like fucking trying to hide their own bottom line. You know what's crazy too, is like that's so interesting what you're saying about him. This guy was like not special. It's like in the episode that's almost so unbelievable that they
try to make him more special in the episode. Like in the episode, he's a dentist, and he's not only a dentist, but he's builds all these churches or builds builds dental practices in third world countries, and he's big on the charity circuit and he works with the NYPD. Like they had to make him special in the episode because it's more believable why there would be cover up for him, you know, like, why are you covering up
for this mediocre fucking dude? I guess Columbia. Do you think that they figure, well, if he's if it's not true, and they if it's if he's innocent, we're not going to pay out all this money or whatever. And even if he did do it, but they can't prove it, then we don't have to pay out the money. Like, are they like literally trying to hide the money, because if they had just given the cops what they wanted,
that these people probably still would have sued Columbia. So I'm just wondering what Columbia is, like, what are they why would they impede this investigation?
I mean, but how many episodes the best view have we seen where it's like very confusing where they would rather just like protect the frat or protect whatever dude. Yeah, And I think it's just what is it like the unconscious bias of it all too where we're like trained to be like are you sure she wasn't trying? I don't know, did he realize I don't there was a nurse there. He wouldn't have fingered her, I don't know,
I have no idea. No, but like a lot of the women in this piece that I was reading, like told the receptionist or like one woman used to work there, laughs, came back to him, went to and then all the receptionists were like, yeah, we know he's a creep They all knew, Like they talked openly about what a creepy was at the office. The receptionist knowingly told women that complained like, oh yeah, sorry about that, don't come back
to him. Other people like nurses would tell women like, don't come back Jesus Christ.
Yeah, I just I don't know. I'm lady all the way when it comes to that. But we've got a great interview coming up too. Hopefully you're so defeated down, We'll be right back. Okay today's guest, Wow, what again? I was so excited to talk to him. He is a prolific character actor who was most recently on the Netflix show Wednesday Two Wednesday Actors in a Row. On the pod, he played Sheriff Donovan Galpin. He's also on mostly shows I've watched, Bloodline, Sons of Anarchy as well
as Southland. You know him today as the manipulated father Luke Davis. Please enjoy our conversation with the very talented Jamie McShane.
Well, you won't believe it.
We the interview we did before you was Ricky Lindholme, No, kiddy, I know you can't believe it.
Was that today.
Yeah, just an hour or so ago. Yeah, and she loves you. We were She was saying you're the best, and I was like, oh.
My god, she's better.
Yeah.
Yeah, we heard about Romania.
Oh good lord. Yeah, it was.
It was neat because it was pretty much Ricky and Hunter and I kind of had each other's backs. And then and Tommy Tomy l Jenkins when he was there.
But it was yeah, Ricky and I got very close Hunter as well.
I mean, you've been working for so long, so many cool things.
It was the Romania, the wildest location or have you shot in more?
Yeah, Romania was pretty well, it's the longest I've ever been anywhere, and it's the farthest away pretty much when you look at the globe, you know, as far from Los Angeles as you can get.
I did shoot.
I did a little independent film in twenty seventeen called Busman's Holiday, and we literally had a crew of like, there were just four of us total, me included, so there was a crew of two guys plus the my friend who wrote, directed, produced, did every department essentially hair and makeup, wardrobe.
But we went.
Around the world in the month of May, and we were in each place for like a week, couple of days, I guess a couple of days.
But it was.
Ireland, Norway, Italy, Mumbai, India, Sansabar, Africa, and then Sydney, Australia and a little north.
So Zanzibar was prett Yeah.
Well you did that all in a month.
Yeah, all in the month of May in twenty seventeen. Wow, it was pretty wild.
Yeah, that is it kind of sounds like an SVU. The log line, a disillusioned cop is forced out of retirement to find a troubled teenage girl who vanished on a trip across the world.
Sounds maybe it was this for you and I got very confused.
Could be an SVU. Yeah, Sbu has never gone to Zanzibar, but they.
Have gone to Romania. They have isn't that where he goes? They go to frog Prog.
Yes, they go to frog Zeck Republic.
Yeah, pretty pretty close.
Yeah, I mean this episode was hard to watch. We've we've wanted to talk to you, we wanted to do this episode, but we were kind of avoiding it.
It's pretty heartbreaking.
Yeah, decaying reality was tough.
Yeah, with the boy and then him die, it really is a tough episode.
Yeah. The writing on this.
Is really good, Like they bring up such topical points and really kind of somehow fleshed them out within the confines of their time period, and it's just been very interesting.
Yeah, no, it was.
I thought it was like also very sub like you portrayed it like in a great way, but it was very subtle about how like this man felt like he had to do like be a vigilante and like defend his daughter and go after the truth, the truth and everything when and didn't know the facts.
And you know, it's like it's.
Uh, you could you sympathize a lot with this character because you made him really like emotionally accessible. I feel like, but you're kind of like, dude, if you had just let the cops do their job for like one more day, we wouldn't have we would have, you know, you.
I know, I am I am a I am a parent and that sort of I don't know, being just that sort of anger and that like someone hurt my kids, someone did something like you freaking kidd me, And you guys aren't doing anything about it right this second?
Are you? And we know who it is?
Yeah, what do you mean?
No one's doing anything. It's kind of that response.
And your character is being manipulated by this uncle too, Like who knows if it was a normal person talked you down for a day. You know he wanted just like willing to ruin your fucking life too, bastard.
So like, what I think was so crazy is like you you've only you've done two episodes of s you you're such you're so prolific. I was expecting when I went to your IMDb to see you've done criminal intent, you've done regular law in order to but like, you haven't done those. You're just an SVU guy. When uh, when it when it uh came to you, were you like I only want us fine?
Yeah, no, you were like geez taking long wolf.
No no, no, no.
Actually, early one of my first jobs after I got my SAG card in like nineteen ninety was I did extra work on the original Law and Order whoa And I did stand in WHEK. I did extra work a couple episodes stand in work, like in that courthouse that was like twenty five years before I booked this first SVU, like nineteen ninety.
Wow.
So when they came to me the first one was like in twenty fifteen, I think, well that was this one to King More. Yeah, I was just you know, it was just wonderful. They came up to me with just an offer and hey, we want you to do this, and we really like your stuff. And you know, last time I was there, I was doing extra work in nineteen ninety So it was thrilling for me.
What a full circle moment? Wow.
Yeah, and especially this episode there was there was a scene we'll talk about later that had a whole thing about full circle about my life and career that was kind of blew me away.
You could just tell us, tell us, oh.
So the scene where I where I hurt Jerome, you know with the nail gun, you know, in that apartment that's being fixed up.
So they originally so you had a location for that.
We were going to shoot in some apartment that there was work being done on and they lost the location last minute. So we wound up shooting at the stages, and we shot those stages are connected to hockey rinks, like there's you know, I forget what. There's like a whole sports complaints there. Just thank you, Chelsea Piers. So we were on the way back of the stages. And I grew up playing hockey like I played hockey as a kid, and I thought I was going to play hockey in you.
Know, college and pro and blah blah blah.
And then I had a freak head injury in school had nothing to do with hockey, and I slipped on sawdust and smashed my head and I could never play hockey again.
So what was the whole circle for me?
Was here?
I was twenty five years after I did extra work on Law and Order, and I'm flown to New York and they're putting me up and I have this great role and I'm you know, doing well as an actor, and I'm sitting there in this cold room with sawdust all on the floor and behind the wall.
If you know what.
It is, it's hockey practice. I can hear the skates, I can hear the sticks, I can hear everything going on if you really listen and it was like my whole childhood of having played hockey and the smells and the feel of the cold, and that whole thing ended because it sawdust, which is all at my feet at this point. And there I am having a great part on a show, on something I did twenty five years ago as an extra when I was starting my career.
It really blew me away and it actually helped a lot with the emotions of the scene.
Wow.
Yeah, it's really I don't know if it was cathartic as much as just wow, like this is all piling in at once.
And everything's connected.
Yeah.
Wowah interesting.
Wait, so Kara is both a Sons of Anarchy and Bosh fanatic.
So oh, we would love to hear some scam.
Bloodline and Bloodline. I'll be honest, like, I'm really into like three of majors of your major projects.
I loved all of them.
I mean, Bloodline was I've been twenty five years acting and struggling and da da Da Da da da, and then I got my first series regular after twenty five years and it was Bloodline. Yeah, and it was it was like going from the miners to the All Star team, and you know, it was incredible and everyone was so nice, the writing was so good.
It was just need to be a part of it.
It was the best. It was such a good show. And you play Chloe Savigni's who's at SVU alum as well, you play her brother, right, and you guys are you guys are kind of like bad people, right, You're like, well.
If you watch the whole series, we're the only decent people.
Yeah in the end.
Yeah, but yeah, No, I loved working Chloe. We had some great stuff together. We really it was just wonderful.
She's great, Yeah, but this is like, this is great. We talked to Amy Landucker also on this podcast. I don't know if you've ever worked with her before, but she's somebody who also like like got she got a regular series regular role in her early forties.
You know.
It was like something like the just the longevity, thet you just have to stay in it and keep hustling for so long that you were an extra in ninety in nineteen ninety and that things weren't really starting to pop off for like ten or fifteen years is like yeah, yeah, yeah, And even like looking at your IMDb, it's like getting in the two thousands it's like customer, hotel manager, characters without names, and then suddenly it's like, okay, now we
got the repeating the big roles and stuff, and yeah, you've just been in like so many things that that I uh, that I love and thank you.
You're one of those.
You're I mean, people just come up to you all the time and say where do I know you from? Because like you have that like is in everything, and thank you.
It happens sometimes like it happened yesterday. I forgot where I was, and it's happened. Sometimes they know me from a specific but most of the time it's well, why don't I know you?
Like that?
Yeah, yeah, what what's the most thing?
What's the thing you get the most?
It's suns for that was when I first really started getting recognized, was for suns, and then that said, it's longevity.
I still get recognized from that Southland.
By cops because cops loved Southland, but they a lot of them also those sins of anarchy and a lot of a lot for Bloodline especially.
It seems like Bloodline.
Got revisited this year, like it popped up again because I was getting recognized a lot this year for Bloodline as well.
I think that's yeah.
And Lincoln Lawyer, Yeah, yeah.
That's kind of the cool thing about streaming. I feel like, even though streaming is changing the industry so much, and sometimes maybe not in good ways, but the good thing is like old projects like resurface and people are like refinding old things so much, where I don't know how you ever used to find a TV show that wasn't on the air anymore, you know, you couldn't really go like rent it, you know, And now it's like people are just like sixteen year olds rediscovering friends now, you know,
and all these shows that pop back off again. So I'm glad people are getting back into Bloodline. But I was there for the original. I was there as it was there, thank you. But so, how was when you were on this back SVU episode? How Haley lou Richardson has really your daughter has really had an assent with her White Lotus, uh, you know, appearance.
So I watched all of White Lotus.
Heather and I were watching it, and I'm like, God, this girl is so good because she's familiar, and you know, she's such a cute She's such a cute kid and all that too.
And I'm like, gods, I must have seen her. And then it wasn't until you guys.
Called me for this and we were rewatching this stuff and she's like, babe, that's the girl from White Loads by.
Your daughter.
And she was so good because she was so young then when we did ask for you don't know if she was like sixteen or whatever. She's still so young, but she was so spot on good and she could turn it on and off like that, you know, and she was such a sweet kid.
How was it filming the prison talking through a phone and a glass That seems kind of like a bucket list fun moment.
I you know, it was. But I had a scene, one of my favorite scenes in Bloodline where I was talking to Chloe like that and it we the reference was Woody the woodpecker, and it was such a bea. It was so well written, it was so sweet. So I had had that before. I probably had it before, and a couple other things, but so it.
Was really neat.
And you know, Peter and Iced Tea were great to work with. They were wonderful. Peter's so sweet, so nice, so is Iced team. But Peter's a little more effusive, you know, you gotta kind of pull it or I did anyway, But both times I've been on the show,
everyone in that show has been just you know. I was thinking about it earlier when when you're on a show where there's a regular cast and they kind of they're on their own thing, and most times everyone's very nice to the guest stars and all that, But on SVU, they were it was almost like they were more inclusive of you as a guest star then some other shows have been over the years. And I don't think it's
just because I've gotten a little more recognizable. I think it's just who they are, you know, they just kind of include you.
Yeah, And when I.
Went from one episode and did the other one a couple of years later, it was just like it was like, you know, I hadn't seen them in.
A little bit, and they're like, hey, Jamie, what's going on? What do you like?
House a family? You know, And it was really is very sweet. It was very kind of tender and like they included you.
Well, it's good to hear, considering the subject matter so tough for so many people coming on that show. It would suck if they were, you know, get in the corner in a box or in quarter or something.
But yeah, and then yeah, then they had you back like five four or five seasons later to do the burden of our choices.
And then you're playing a pre Yeah.
Yeah, have you ever played a priest before?
I was more of a minister in that one. I did play a priest. You're a minister, which was funny.
I played a priest, a very Catholic priest in the first season of Nip Tuck.
Oh my god.
I also watched Nip Tuck.
I was yeah, I was not a good priest.
Oh, I bet.
And it was so funny because my mother. It was a big It was a big break for me.
I beat out like some other actors who had big, big agents at the time, and.
I got this role.
And I called my mom and I'm like, you know, hey, I got this big role.
She's like, do you get killed? I go no.
She goes, do you kill anyone? I go no, she goes, oh, thank god. I go actually, I play a priest. She goes, oh my god, that's wonderful.
Oh. I was the worst type of priest there could be. So when they watched it, it wasn't so wonderful.
Oh my god got this priest was twisted?
Yeah, missed her.
I can't keep it. The minister in in for you, the burden of our choices.
I don't think he was twisted at all.
I'm glad you think so, but I think he was just he was straight up in what he believed, which is twisted. But yes, he was. He was straight up. This is what I believe, this is what I do. Yeah, I can see how that's twisted. Yeah, But for him as a character, he wasn't twisted. It wasn't like, yeah, I see, when did we.
Talk who's the actor in Charisma that was like my favorite. He plays this cult leader who impregnates his children and then he ends up killing all these kids in this incest cult.
But when we talked to him.
He goes, yeah, I didn't realize I was a bad guy until I watched it for this podcast, because he was so He's like, you know, he just believed that this was his religion.
And I'm like, that's so wild. True, Jeffrey Cobert, I.
Think, yeah, oh I know he is. Yeah, I know jeff Colbert. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen him all the time.
No, no, No, it's funny because he's also a not zen, but he's kind of a.
I'm not a guru, but yes, yeah, you know what I mean, Like.
Yeah, he does like meditating, he does m he's like very genetication yeah.
Yeah, and he teaches people that sort of stuff.
Yeah.
So he's kind of like a perfect like but one of the nicest people we've ever talked to, like, and he's absolutely freaky. And he's in a movie also from when I was younger that traumatized me. He's so scary in it called like the movie The First Power I think is what it's called, and like he's it's like I just watched it too young and was like, that guy is so scary. And then we talked to him
and one of the nicest people in the world. You know, you just hone what you know, probably his belief in meditation was his belief that he should have a child bride in spu you know, he just gotta you just gotta is that Meisner when you I don't know what what kind of what acting school that is, but are you a theater guy or always.
Tea No, no, no, I did a lot of like that's how I learned to to act.
Was I did a lot of theater, but I mean like so far off Broadway. It was in Jersey. I mean, you know I did.
I did dinner theater at a mall in New Jersey one time for a while.
Yeah, serving food and everything. It was fun. But I did.
I did a lot of plays, like back to back to back for the first four or five years.
And some were you know, one was a shick.
You know.
I played Patricio and Timmy of the Shrew at a college outdoor theater in Jersey. And you know, I did a bunch of one acts in New York and nothing real. I mean I did plays that you would know of, but not in venues that you'd know.
Other than I was. I was a swing in Tony and Tina's wedding, like a siller.
When you just said the dinner theater thing, I was like, well, I did go to Tony and Tina's wedding.
I mean that was fun.
Yeah.
Yeah. I did Tony and Tina's wedding in like the early two thousands. I went to it because I had a friend who was in it.
And it was it was a fun show.
Crazy.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I really learned to uh that show.
Yeah, because you'd like go to the bathroom and there'd be guys like pretending to do coke and stuff like.
It was like a whole It was so fun.
They were amazing.
I'm really so sad I never made it to that because that sounds like I would be really into it.
Yeah, it was fun.
It's hilarious. Miss that.
Oh my gosh, do you have upcoming stuff that you want to like, I'm looking at it right now.
Give us the heads up about like I did.
I did the show called Task, Yeah, and it'll be on HBO. Mark Ruffalo is the lead. Tom Pilfree, Sam Keeley. I get to work closely with an Irish actor. It's the first thing in my career to really surpass Bloodline as it's the best thing I've done in my career.
I think it.
Isn't it the guy who played yeah young version and Bloodline?
Yeah, yep. Oh and I got to hang out knowing quite a bit.
We were in We filmed in Philly, which I loved, or we stayed in Philly. We filmed in the suburbs. But Brad Inglesby, who created Mayor of East Town.
Yes, that's so funny when you just said it I clicked on it on IMDb, and when I saw the Mark Ruffalo thumbnail, I was like, this is giving me May of east Town. Like in my head, I was like, this feels like Mary of Eastown.
So Brad who created May of Eastown and wrote every episode. He created this show and wrote every episode. He's one of the nicest humans you'll ever meet. He's just such a good guy. Everyone on it was so nice. The writing was so good. The character I got to play was on and dangerous and exciting, and the chemistry with Sam Keeley was amazing. And then I got to do season two of nineteen twenty three. I was in a little bit in the first season, and Taylor brought my character back in a great way.
Oh this is part is this part of the Yellowstone the Yellowstone Universe?
Okay, cool?
Yeah, this is the one with Harrison Ford and he Yeah.
Geez, wow, you had to work with those suckers.
That's too bad.
I didn't.
I didn't get to work with them. I wish I did, but my scenes didn't have anything with them. It was really uh, it was really neat. Yeah.
And then I got to go back to Wednesday season two and do a little bit here and there.
That's great, And was the second season also in Romania.
Now it was.
It was in Ireland, which is one of my favorite places in the mine too.
I love Ireland.
Oh my god.
I got to go back and forth a few times, and it was just like wonderful.
I just want to seafood chowder all the time. What you say.
I love seafood chowder and just like sitting and you.
Said, I'd just like to sleep with chowder all the time. Wow, that is I never.
Think of Ireland as being like a seafood chowder place, but I guess under by walking.
Yeah that makes sense.
Yeah, so if you come back, because they've had you back now every five years, so you're about due for another season. I do like season twenty six, Like, yeah, that's been about five since season twenty one. So uh what what what do we like? You've played a dad, a vigil anti dad, a minister who obviously is anti abortion, a blonde ange.
Okay, okay, I.
Don't know whatever they whatever they say, Hey, Jamie, that'd be nice.
Yeah, we have moles on the inside.
Yeah, we've got we've got people that listen. I can see you as like a cop from another a cop from another precinct or something, you know, like that has they have to work with him.
But then maybe he's back. I don't know. I don't know.
Now.
I want people to see your good side, so I want you to play. I want you to just play good guys.
That'd be nice.
Well, I cannot wait to watch task see you in anything else you do. And thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. This was great.
He's too good.
I need I need a flaw. I need to find a flaw in this man. He's too positive. I'm like, can you talk a little shit, sir. But he's just happy.
He's like never had a bad experience, happy for the work. Can you imagine you're doing extra work in nineteen ninety but things like do not pop off for you into like the early to mid two thousand. It's just like fifteen years of auditioning and like damn doing shorts and stuff like Wow.
The I mean that is I mean, that is like how you build a career. It's like really rare to just hit it, you know what I mean, and anything like you gotta go to med school, you gotta get boots on the ground. Well, oh, my god. There's a new season of inc Master. You were in the group chat unfortunately of that conversation. But it's six episodes in when I found it. I'm still glad I found it. But it's OG's versus New Guns, So it's teams, and it's people with under ten years experience and then people
with over ten years experience. The most experienced is he's twenty six years in and the ogs are.
Like smashing the competition.
And there's a girl that's three years in that's like incredible, she'll probably make it to the top three, like she is magic.
Yeah, and that happens.
And Ryan, who's a judge now who won, who is also only four years in when she won, like it's not an end some like rule, but the ogs are demolishing. Yeah.
I mean it's like Malcolm Glodwell talks about the ten thousand Hours.
What a dumb bitch, fucking I know, and I'm done acknowledging him. You want people back in the office. We're not talking about him, no, no, no, fuck it.
But I yes, I don't love Malcolm Glodwell that much, but I do think the ten thousand Hours is like kind of legit, Like the more you work on your art, like how could you not be better? And of course there's exceptions like the random comedian who's like killer after one year, Like you know, of course that happens.
Well, I'm more thinking about the people that I've known for fifteen years who are still not good.
That is who I'm thinking about.
So I know ten thousand hours is a guarantee, but that's actually kind true.
Sometimes it's just not their honey.
Yeah, and that because also sometimes what happens on inc masters at least, it's like you could work for twenty five years and have the same bad habits, always not want to learn, think you know everything, and come in with like kind of outdated work without knowing different genres and being like, well this is actually what I do and I I know, and then the ego kind of takes over. So there have been instances where the people with twenty years experience really suck, but this season is
just like interesting. But yeah, things take a long times sometimes, but yeah, you got it, because I don't like it's always confusing when peoplere like, well I'll move to LA and if it doesn't happen in two years, I'm out, And it's like you shouldn't even start them.
Yeah, like what are you talking about?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's if you're willing to not do it in two years, you should just never ever do it.
It's like pretty hard.
It's like what do they say? It's like you do it because you can't do anything else, Like you do these things because like you have to do them, like.
In your way.
Are the convo that I had with the prop set design person on the India I did or not? We were like at the little wrap gathering and we're talking and she goes, well, what I love doing more is showing up, building the set and leaving. And she goes, because no offense, I don't like working with actors.
Go, I get it. I get it. She's like, I work with inadimate.
Objects on purpose, yeah, because they're should be on set maintaining. But like she said, she built one of the sets for Survival of the Thickest, which I didn't know, like she did them Garcelle's closet, I think. And so she goes, I just came in, did it and left, and she's like, I prefer that kind of work.
That's so cool.
Yeah it is, but yeah, you can't fake experience.
But Jamie's just like grateful for the learning the process, Like you can tell he really loves it and loves his kids and proud of them all. And I don't know in the him, Yeah great guy, Well what do we think about this episode? I mean this crime the crime like truly, like this is the kind of Oh my god, I forgot that we're in the post mortem. Yeah, we got to do our post mortem.
But like this kind of person, this hat and guy like truly makes me like ill that you would just abuse your power or that you would go to school to become both like him the coach, Like that you would go to school and like work hard and pass exams and do all this just you can be in a position to like abuse people. It's so diabolical.
It is diabolical, but it's not unique. And that is like what I'm the most mad at. It's like, yeah, these pedophiles do a lot, These molestors and rapists do a lot to be able to get away with it, Like why are we shocked they volunteer and do all these things on purpose, Like these urges are.
Like they can't control the I don't.
Yeah, but let's go to what would Sister Peg Do?
For the week?
You guys know what this is. It's our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization or a article, just more info or something you can do charitably to help. Regarding the subject that we talked about in today's episode, and this week for what would Sister Peg Do, we would like to point you to the Innocence Project. We have pointed you to them before, but you know, it's never it's never too many times because they do work
to free innocent people. We obviously hated the whole Jerome Jones storyline in this episode where someone is falsely accused twice and obviously it does not lead to anything good for him in the episode, but also in real life, many people go to jail for several reasons, and the Innocence Project works to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions, and create fair, compassion and equitable systems of justice for everyone. Their work is guided by science and grounded in anti racism.
And for more info go to Innocenceproject dot org. And as always, that's a story the day that this episode comes out, and then we save that story for Reva in our what would Sister Peg do WWSPD highlights on our Instagram page, which is That's Messed Up Pod. Go give us a follow.
Yay, all right, and next week I don't know why, yay the innocence, but it's good.
They do good.
We're gonna do an episode called Smoked legendary episode.
I would iconic iconic.
Yeah, Season twelve, episode twenty four, and I like a little number game twenty four divided.
By two thrilling. Yeah.
Okay, it's AKA Maloney's last episode, guys, so tune in. This is gonna be a good one.
And again, yeah, buy some Christmas gifts from our merch if you want that to happen before Christmas.
Yeah, and we'll see you next week.
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