Daydream Believer w/ Dallas Roberts

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. I am one of your hosts, Kara Klink, and I'm Liza Traeger. We talk SVU crimes. We have celeb guests. That's really a whirlwind and it's been time. I mean, I also got drunk last night, Cara. Oh my gosh, Liza. I had to recover. I had to regard. I mean I just I had like a half hour nap and then I went right back out. Hair of the Dog Baby. Yeah.

I went to Gelkos yesterday after we stopped working. And Gelkos, for those who don't know, Okay, sorry, I have like an active crush.

So the text came in. I had to It's just a fucking friend, just a dumb ass friend. So Gelkos is a vintage like soda pop shop and there's beers and it's just like liquids from around the world and they have a sandwiches in the back and they play like old timy music and it's so cute and I don't know why there hasn't been like a date filmed in there. Yeah, a movie and it has like old candy and stuff like. It's great.

I got jujifruits in honor of Seinfeld because I've never actually had them, and they're better than juju be's.

Oh I was good to say. I don't really like juju bees, but maybe jujifruits are better. They're softer. Ah, got it. But then you do have the licorice flavor, so that's upsetting. But what are you gonna do? Well? We had a listener by the just a quick shout out to a listener. I forget her name, but she was so sweet. She works at Trader Joe's in Chicago, and she brought us big bags snacks to our shows

What I also wanted to say about Gilko's is that Billie Eilish loves to go there.

Oh yeah, because she's a Highland park girl. Yeah, it's her favorite fucking spot, so that's exciting. Speaking of celebrities, I did humiliate myself. No, it was not that bad. So at learn the words, bitch. I ran into a delightful drag queen named Jackie Cox, who was on the season that I wrote on. So we were just like catching up and talking and then Lisa walks by and I go, Lisa, this is Jackie Cox, and Lisa's face it was like a little kid seeing Santa Claus, Like

But then the thing that came out was like, do you know this person? Which is like a random person. It has nothing to do with him. It's just because while we were watching the season, one of our friends thought that Jackie reminded I did her of our friend, and that's why I even said it.

It's not like they know each other or he's like crazy to think that they would know each other. She's a New York queen, he's a New York comic. I don't think that it does a direction, but it doesn't matter. There's like tons of people that he might know, like we could have been like, do you know, Bob, you know what I mean? Like it was, it was, it was just I don't know why I couldn't handle myself. Sometimes I fall apart. I don't know, and then sometimes

No, Sometimes you're in a room with a bunch of people and it's like, what, Oh I did meet one of my favorite porn stars turned DJs.

That was exciting. Oh, excuse me, that's exciting about out Carter? She ran up to me. What she ran up and hugged me. It was thrilling. How does she know you from your comedy from the internet? Wow?

Well, you know in my Netflix Stuff Hour, I do a joke about paying for porn. Yeah, obviously the porn stars loved it, so I kind of I've been passed around the porn community in terms of that clip.

Not in a typical way of being passed around the porn community. No, you would have heard about that. I was out there like fucking all these porn stars. Oh, definitely now, but it is wild they are out and about in La. Yeah. I mean I was with you when we saw one of your faves and who DMS who we DM?

Now?

I love that. Yeah, they've been at like a show. I've whatever. Listen you guys. I'm successful and porn stars loves me. I'm living a fantasy.

And what I love too is Karen and I were so hungover we separately each got McDonald yesterday, not the other one did, and that makes me happy to.

Yeah, there's not a lot of great delivery option. While Bells was closed, my favorite bagel place was closed. I really wanted a bell sandwich. But you would get Bells for hangover. Yeah, like I was. Bells is closed on Tuesday. Oh my god. So last night we went to the Hermiceo a bunch of us and getting drunk.

It was closing. Fuck, where are we gonna go? Fucking Goldfish closed, Juniors is closed. We went to fig Everything Clos're getting.

Out of a car. You always call it junior. Johnny is john is Johnny. They were all closed, all closed, So we drive to fig And in two separate cars, and then while we're going out, there's like a bunch of people standing outside Greyhound going it's all closed, and we keep walking. They're like, you will be coming back to your car, like they were just roasting the shit out of us, And it was. It was all closed, the Bowling closed, gold Line like everything. The time was

I saw a thing on Instagram that said that West Hollywood has like voted and decided that you could be opened til four. So that'll But it's not like, but once you're already back in your neighborhood, you're not going to go to.

Of course, of course, I'm just saying, if you knew you wanted to have like a late night, you could go out in that neighborhood. But yeah, I started my night at Silver Lake Lounge. Oh yeah, and that was fun. I watched our friend Josh, who sent me Taco Bell gift cards, play music. Talented, very talented. It was very excit, exciting, but yeah, everything was closed and then we got roasted by a group of people. But they love the Greyhounds,

The fuck.

Greyhounds? Fine? What about Goldline? Have you been there? It was all closed? No, I know, but I'm just saying in general, I haven't been there. I know people love it.

It's always two packed for me, I always and with people who want to go there, and I'm always like, m that's.

Fine for me, too busy. It's too busy for me.

But yeah, I just couldn't believe it, just like begging to have one more drink all over town.

Everything closed. Yeah. Also shout out Arsley for the edible you gave us. Oh yes, we did have an amazing listener named Arsley at the show. We had a couple other listeners that were there. Thank you guys for all coming out. That was so sweet. And the birthday cake edible candy bar. I don't even know where I put it, but I loved it. I have mine in the house. I got to keep it away from my kids because if Rosie sees that packaging, she will She's not going

Should we be talking about Uber Postmates prices or is through the roof?

Oh? Really do you order food anymore? I don't order food that much through It's insane.

Mates, Like I got, like, I've not had an order under thirty dollars even though the food total is like twelve dollars.

Oh really, Like my McDonald's yesterday was twenty and I got the hash browns and a egg and cheese and a coke. Yeah, it's a lot.

Yeah.

The economy, I'm noticing it because when I'm on the road all the time, I don't look at prices because it's like I don't really have a choice.

I'm out here, Like what am I going to do? Nitpick? In London? I'm getting the sandwich.

There's just no thinking when I'm on the road or I'm at a hotel or like whatever. And then now that I've been home for a few weeks, it's like, oh, I feel the economy.

Yeah, yeah, you can't kind of tell although gas prices are going down. Yeah, it's just like I usually don't pay attention and now I'm like, wait, what the fuck is happening? Yeah, I know everyone's been because people talk about the O eight crash and I'm like, could have beat me? I don't. I don't know about it, Like i've oh eight the crash. It's like I lost my job, but I was also broke before, and I was broke after,

Well I've only noticed mostly for post me. It's like keep having to to be like I guess I'll walk like I should be to get things.

But yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me just say a little bit of business that we are going to be in three days on the twenty ninth at the Montreal Comedy Festival. If you know anyone in Montreal, if you're in Montreal, please come see us. It's gonna be great. It's going to be you know, a totally original show that no one's ever seen before. And then also Lisa will be at mic Drop Comedy in San Diego in August. Get

Now, I always act like I'm going to be low key, and then I've already made dinner reservations two months out, like I mean.

Lunch lunch reservation. No, it's exciting.

I couldn't afford dinner there, dinners before booze.

That's nuts. That's like Jared and I went to Tokyo and we went We stayed at a really nice hotel for just two nights of it, and we were like, okay, we want to go to like a really upscale sushi dinner and they were like, okay, that runs about six hundred dollars a person. We were like, okay, medium scale. Then they sent us to it like another place. It was just a notch down but was still really good. People fucking love Japan. Oh yeah, Tokyo.

Can you believe that that their leader got assassinated, and it's like a blip in our news, Like what I.

Mean, he's he's the ex leader, so that's probably why it's not quite so, but it is. Oh he was the ex Yeah he stepped down in twenty twenty. Okay, but but but still I remember this guy in the news constantly because him and Trump were like buddy, buddy, you know, so I remember that all the time. And it's just wild that Japan has about six gun related murders a year, whereas we have three hundred thousand or something like or thirty thousand, some kind of crazy number.

I know, I do really dislike when the people immediately are like, oh, so gun lost, don't you have it?

Like I don't know. Yes, it's like drillful. Its murders in a year, like that's like in a day in one state here. But oh, another more uplifting thing I was going to bring up is suddenly our podcasts Instagram page has become a clear the list site for teachers, and I'm happy. I'm happy to do it. So if you are interested in giving helping some teachers fulfill their Amazon wish lists. A lot of teachers do not get are not given a budget to get enough supplies that

A love now?

No, no, no, I just like it. If you go to the highlight, I'm sure everyone's gonna click on the first one and then it's like the person who I last posted is gonna be like cool, I got nothing. But yeah, just that was another thing I wanted to shout out, but are we what do you think? So? And we got we should definitely start, but we did get a lot of feedback from people on the internet

We're in It's Daydream Believer season sixteen, and wildly we do start off with a previously seen little chunk, but it is so long the previously seen it's like, well.

It has to be, don't you think, because it's like it's from Chicago p D which, like, I don't know what the percentage I don't know what the percent Yeah, yeah, I don't know what the percentage of people. Yeah. Like this character of William Yates is introduced on Chicago PD and then crosses over to SVU because you know, criminals are moving from Illinois to New York constantly, and as the Dick Wolf universe would have you believe.

Yeah, and they all know each other. So it's a two parter crossover event. And it starts with a gray this so this is previously seen, starts with a gray haired, deep voiced man from Chicago p D. And he's zooming before zoom was in and he's talking to Olivia and so they had a case and it's very similar to a case that she had ten years ago, so you know. And on his desk I do see a Chicago flag I noticed, And then I think he has one of the old white max Do you remember the laptops that were white?

Yes, my sister had one.

Yeah, those are cool, not as cool as the colorful ones, but I.

Liked that era. I could see those coming back also because like mid century modern is very like white lacquer, shiny white, you know what I mean. Like these fuckers don't they don't give us what we want and not learned that yet. How long have we been begging for the colorful laptop? Oh? Remember when you also told me that you thought they were bringing us bees back. They're not. When I went to the when I went to Macio, I heard you're bringing usbes back and they were like, nope,

I mean, but did you see the finale. I finally watched the finale of this latest season, and it's you know, they are, She's trying to find happiness. We'll see, yeah, we'll see what happens. So this case obviously involves rape and torture. But then on a twist. There's some torching as well, and then Benson.

They wanted to leave the door open in case they wanted to involve Chicago fire as well. I think, yeah, that's exactly it. So Benson went.

To Chicago to investigate the case, and there was a man who's always dressed in scrubs, and we see we see Danny Pino interrogating this man in scrubs and it's Yates aka Dallas Roberts, aka our new friend that we met in New York City. So the squad is looking at Yates and he's walking out. He looks up and down at Detective Nadia and then he ends up knocking her out in front of her car and kidnaps her and she's missing. And then this episode Daydream Believer begins.

Yeah, and I don't think Donnie is a detective. I think she's like a usinar. Yeah, she's like, oh you said that out later. Yeah, she works at Chicago p D. Yeah.

So basically, Sophia Bush took a liking to this criminal and has moved her into her home and has coached her out of her bad life choices, and she wants to be a police officer. Big I just don't think there's that many criminals that are like, actually, now I want to be a cop.

There's no fucking way, there's no I just I kicked the heroin habit and now I want to work on the force. Yeah, I doubt it.

There's no fucking way after you get arrested, and I just don't see how you're like, oh, I want to be the aggressor now. So now the real episode begins and we open on a Chicago police logo and deep voice. Hank and Sophia Bush are walking and talking. I didn't learn her character name, and I will be calling her Sophia Bush for the rest of us.

Yeah, I can't think. Oh, I think her last name is Lindsay, but I don't even remember what her first name is. Yeah, don't care, So no offense Sophia Bush. But she also has a very deep voice. What's going on in Chicago? Or not deep but like raspy, you know, like both of these two leads are like they have nodes on nodes. I don't know what drinking I don't know. Our friend Sean Patten once said people in Chicago drink like it's the best or worst day of their life.

So they're walking and talking, so I love that they do walk and talks in the Midwest as well. He says that son of a bitch was toying with us, and she's like, yeah, he knew we were tracking his phone. He left it in the basement next to a lighter and nail polish. And we meet another detective with ideas and I refuse to learn who he is as well. And we have this guy's I pass and it's like a zoom thing for the holes if it's called something else where you live, and they have his credit cards,

So all hands on deck. They're going to try to solve this crime.

Now we realize they don't know that Nadya has been taken, so only we know, and I kind of like that.

I love when the audience knows more than the characters.

So gray hair Hank is trying to assign her work and then he's like, wait, where is she? And there's a posted note on her laptop and it says running an errand took Sophia Bush's car. Peace out, and they're pissed. They're like, she's running an errand, we need help. And then finally the undescript detective's like, she went to pick up her birthday cake. It was going to be a surprise, So that's cute. But then Sophia calls her straight to voicemail.

So that's obviously where we get the name of the episode, and that is like a Monk. That's a very popular monkey song from back in the day, but this is a cover they're using. This is not the original song. Yeah.

So he's now shopping at a very luxurious truck stop gas station or they stopped in the town, but this place had lots of shit, and he's helping a woman holding a baby carry shit, and that's you know, we learn this time and time again, the most charming helpful people are the worst killers and rapists of our time. Do not trust anyone that's nice to you. Yeah, don't trust men, whether their assholes are nice, they will throw

He paints all his victims nails with green nail polish. Yets. I looked up his full like Chicago background too, and it was like test saying that that's part of it. I don't know. He hates his mom obviously, so maybe it does something she wore green nail polish. I don't know, Wait, did it say something about his mom? Yeah, he was like sadistic as a child, and so his parents when they got pregnant with their second child, they like shipped him off to another family because they were scared for

Yeah, So when the mom walks away from that nice interaction, his face like drops, true manipulative nature shows. He walks back to the car, and as he's walking back, this like truck driver, like this friendly truck driver and a puffy vest walks up and it's like, hey, there's something moving in your car, and Yates tells the truth, like he's like, yeah, I kidnapped a girl and I threw her in the back.

Don't you hate when you kidnap a girl?

And she won't stop thrashing, And the truck driver looks concerned, and then he goes, I'm kidding, it's my dog, And then they laugh and separate, and that's the like why would you cover a dog with a tarp?

Though, like, truck.

Driver, your instincts were correct, but I also thought he was going to murder this truck driver, So I don't know. I'm glad he stayed alive. And so now he eats is a little more stressed out. He enters the car. He's not happy at the close call. He picks up the tarp she has tape on her mouth, and he's like, I told you to stop moving. So he does take the tape off her mouth and asks for a verbal yes, and like she's in an exit row on a plane, and.

So she says yes.

So she says they're gonna find you let me go, and he doesn't want to, and he touches her mouth with his fingers and says, no way, this is our honeymoon. And then the most chilling line, this is paradise compared to what's coming, Nadia.

Not good.

Then he tells her they're going to New York to achieve their dreams.

Okay, So she.

Starts pleading with him, and he says, you missed your shot. A trucker heard you, but I guess you weren't loud enough. So she starts screaming, but he pulls you know, he puts up the music. We can't hear her. She's too late. They drive off. We cut back to the Chicago offices. Two cops approached leather Daddy Gray and to let him

And it's like, get over yourself.

And then a call comes into like HIV boy and he answers and he said there was a hit on Lindsay's car, so they rushed to get to the car. They surround the car with lots of lights, screaming for them to get out of the car, and it's a dorkman with glasses who comes out and he's like, wait, what's going on?

And Yates switched the plates.

So there's a woman and two kids in the car and they've been driving from Pennsylvania and the last time they stopped was Indiana and that's where Yates probably switched the plates. And then Hank is like, oh my god. And then finally it's the credits. Okay, I cannot believe.

We are just at the credits. I know, No, I'm tired. No, No, it's just like a jam packed episode. It is jam packed.

So open back at the NYC offices and Benson's talking to Chicago's Stabler and she's saying that Finn and Tomorrow filled her in and.

They're really killing me. That you're never gonna call this man the same thing twice, Like he has ten nicknames already, and we just got out of the credits. Chicago's Stabler is so funny. I mean, he's one hundred percent that vibe.

Yeah, they're thinking that he's coming back to New York. That's his favorite place to be, and they're putting out photos everywhere and both their car.

You know, they're like trying to find this person.

So the Chicago squad is gonna fly out to New York to help our tax dollars at work. And then he reveals that Nadia is a good kid and we know what he's doing to her, so we gotta we gotta help, We gotta be quick. And then Benson says, don't go there, but how can you not? Okay, So now we're back on Yates. His car has Jersey plates

No, no, no, Yeah, that definitely has like we woke her up in the middle of the night vibes, because she's normally pretty buttoned up in like blouses and yeah, you know, out of white silk for some reason, always in a white, white silk top. She's like, you know, what'd be great for jogging through the city after criminals. White silk, Yeah, and a camel like trench coat. Peico. That's like, that's thess. So I caught the flannel.

They had a hit on the stolen car or card not you know whatever. He's stealing cars, he's stealing cards. This is a lot of stuff to be tracking. So they did in Jersey. He bought an ice pick and a shovel. Not good, but at least Jersey. You know, we're close. We're close. He has to use a tunnel or a bridge to get into the city, so we'll get him. Caresy's skeptical though, and it's like, what, We're gonna stop everyone with a camera and Benson's like, no, just every white male with a camera, dummy.

So then Rollin.

Says they got a hit on Lindsay aka Sophia Bush's car and it's south of Broadway Bridge. So they go to this abandoned shipyard. The music is pumping. Chicago and New York are on the scene full winter where there's snow on the ground. They start going through it, Sofia looks worried into the distance. There is nobody, just ropes and tarps and shit, and then there's evidence of blood on a scarf that Lindsey had given her, and Hank's like, she left that for us.

She's smart. It reminds me of the little girl who left her headphones shoved into the back of the car when the guy kidnapped her. Do you remember that episode? Very smart? If you're kidnapped, you gotta leave something shoved underneath the seat to prove you were there. Yeah.

Absolutely, there's some forensic files about that, and yeah, you gotta try.

Oh god, all right.

So there's hope that she's alive though, so they're getting They shouldn't, but there's hope. So they're getting back up and the canine units come into work. Everyone's coming to work, and Benson assures Sophia we're gonna get him. She starts to cry a little and hugs Hank. We have a brunette with a bold lip getting out of a cab with a purple suitcase and a bag from duty Free. So she's having fun and she's talking on the cellphone.

But she's a flight attendant, right, yeah. Yeah.

It's like, if you're gonna get booze and you're a therap one might as well just pick something up at Yeah, get one of those clear bags. So the camera pulls up and we see Yates on the street and he starts to watch her and he SIPs coffee. He smiles and crosses the street and he says, do you need help with that? And she's like, thank you and lets him go inside her building. You never want to blame a victim, but to let this man carry your luggage inside of your home, I can't.

It's also a carry on, and you're a flight attendant. You know how to carry your own shit, like the Alisa was recently traveling with a sixty pound huge away bag. Maybe you need a little help with that, maybe, but I'm talking the little baby carry on now.

I just love when you do have a heavy suitcase like I do. Often it is every Uber driver has something to say, so he's like, oh it's.

Heavy, yeah, oh youh god.

Here they're always and I'm like, yeah, this is a nightmare.

You think I like this. I want that big away though, Like whenever I pack that big away it's always overweight, Like it's just impossible to like not have that be weigh a thousand pounds. Like That's why I didn't mind picking yours up and putting it in the Uber for you, because I was like, this is me. Every time I travel with my kids, I always have that big ass away. It's just like, is it not an ad?

No, But if I had just maybe worn fifty percent of what I brought, then I'd feel better about it. But like, I didn't wear most of it, and that is what hurts my heart. So then now we're back, Okay, So this bitch let this guy in, and the next shot is there's signs of a struggle in the apartment. The luggage is on the floor, there's a lamp on the floor, the sofa's turned over, and then we see this girl.

She's on the ground.

She's not dead, but he's putting tape on her mouth and she's beat up and bloody.

This is not going good.

And then in walks another woman, but she just starts screaming and she's just frozen.

She's in shock in action.

He just closes the door very calmly and knocks her the fuck out, And now he's like out of breath but getting turned on, and there's like a sheen of sweat over him, and he's just like he's just getting pumped up for what's.

About to happen. I don't I don't love it.

So now we're at a very active crime scene and Hank approaches, asking if it was Yates and Benson and Rollins are there to say, I mean maybe, and Sophia

The lower level or on my Luman heads out there. Good night from the lower level.

So we do a quick cut to Hank walking out of the basement apartment aka the lower level, saying, this guy is an animal and they can't believe he just charms his way into these women's homes. There is no forced entry, but he is getting sloppy and it's either because he knows that they're closing in.

On him, so he has to do his last hurrah.

But shit is wild, like the doors are being held open, the bodies are visible, so what's going on? Christie and Sophia run over with important news. He has a parking ticket from years ago and it happened three blocks from this location, so we must live close by.

Finally, Finn is here. I've missed his ass.

He says that he was ided by someone in the neighborhood and confirmed a white man followed a woman into this house.

But why didn't you do anything about it?

So the whole team is here and we're about to break down the door and enter into Yates's home and they scream NYPD, and he's legit, just like with a woman eating calmly, and they don't seem stressed at all, as I would be if police just entered my home that aggressively. And Hank says, where is she? And he acts like he doesn't know what he's talking about. So Hank picks him up by his collar and throws him and holds him on the wall, and Sophia protects the

So they all look shocked as hell. He looks really satisfied.

And now we're back at the squad and rollins is an interrogation with the e with the Eights, and Hank tells the nondescript white man from the Chicago PD who just flew in, that we need a bad cop in there. So he enters to play some role playing games on and he's doing some lying and playing naive and they're trying to get some info from him, and he says that he was on edge and that Chicago PD was after him, so he was just going to visit the

Like it's like, this is the worst lie ever.

Yes, Nadia wanted to hang out and take a road trip with you, a fucking stranger.

She had a cake with her, a stranger that she knows the Chicago PED is looking at for like several murders.

Like it's wild, wild, So there's a huge audience watching in the middle of the you know, fish room, like the spy area. All the detectives are there. Hank's like, what the fuck is this a date or an interrogation? And he's not liking good cop Rollins and he knows the clock is sticking.

But Benson's like, chill out, let you know, let her manipulate him. Relax. Yeah, this is some of Rollins's best flirt work. Later late in later episodes, I feel like, yeah.

Carisy agrees, like, I don't think this is gonna work. I don't think he's gonna give like, I don't think he's gonna give up information. But Finn and Benson do believe in her skills. So Crisee's like, well, maybe the girlfriend, that's who's gonna crack. And so the girlfriend is in the fancier, classier interrogation room and Sophia Bush and Amaro in there, and basically the fiance has been with Yates for nineteen years, on and off.

They met in med school, on and off. We were on a break.

They moved to New York together, but only got engaged that day. He never wanted to commit, but it works for her because they never lived together. And they're like, you never thought that was strange, And she's like, I don't know. He's busy, he needs a loone time to hike and bike. I don't give a fuck what Mark.

Is like his motivation asking that woman to marry him, like when he knows the cops are closing in on him and shit, Like I thought maybe it was like he was going to try to marry her real quick so she couldn't so there'd be like spousal privilege, but like, well because like nineteen years she probably has seen some shit, maybe even though she seems dumb.

Well, in the future episodes with Yates, we find out like he could tell that she was pregnant.

That's right, Sorry, you're right, And so he liked that. So I think that's what, Like, couldn't black that out? Yeah, he can like smell if you're pregnant. Yeah, he does it to Rolins too. Oh yeah, you go to see this doctor. He just smells you and goes, I know exactly what's wrong.

Yeah, and Amaro's like, babe, you don't know who he is, like, and he starts showing her the missing person flyers of women that have disappeared, and that all these people disappeared anytime he was in a town. So we went to Duke and women were disappearing New York, New Orleans, Chicago. They were all right, beaten, burned, and Greg lived in all the cities where it happened. Before we can see what this girlfriend's gonna say, we cut back to you saying that Nadia saw him as a father figure. Bad

They're pleading with her.

They start showing her more evidence him at the truck stop buying an ice pick, stolen credit cards. The girlfriend starts looking worried and confused. They show more items in the car and she says, you're lying. You're not lying. I know that you're lying because he was at the beach. He had sand in his shoes. He sat at the beach and that's where he decided to propose to me. And she even calls the beach his special place, ding ding ding What beach? And now we're at Pelham Bay

Yeah, so many people at the beach. He got a lot fucking done. This guy too, he like cruised in from Chicago, got these two flight attendants, like was able to drop bodies in the Bronx, head to Elmhurst to see his fiance. This man is zooming around Manhattan at a.

Stay and before lunch, before lunch, made it back for lunch. Yeah, they don't see the bodies at the beach, but you know, they're also like, this is such a busy public space, like how could he do it?

And they're like, well, the woods are more sacred. Maybe it's in the woods.

And they find old ass bones, lots of bones, hands, they've been there for years. My god, Benson says. Then suddenly they find nautium. Sophia starts crying. Amorro says, sorry, she is dead. She's under the tarp, she's naked and there's blood on her face and it's sad. We come back from a long black fade out to someone's hand flipping through the crime scene photos on an iPad, and I'm like.

Who's hands are these? It's Barbara.

So he's with Hank and Benson at a long table and so far they've found seven remains and they're still working through the night to find more, and they're looking at dental records. They're going to match up the victims, but there's no forensics, unfortunately, so it's gonna be hard. He is a smart doctor. Everything he does is random. He chooses the victims at random. Sometimes he burns, sometimes he buries. And no evidence ever, Like there's no blood on him for his latest victims, and no DNA of

His hair is falling around. I was gonna say he might know how to like bleach shit down, but yeah, hair, I don't know. Other stuff like that's that is wild.

And then one of the women, one of the flight attendants, did survive the attack from earlier, but she has way too much brain damage to id him. And Barbara is getting really frustrated, and Benson has an idea Nadia was not random.

That was a screw you to the Chicago PD.

So Barba asked if they have any evidence of them being together in the car, and they do. You know, he admits driving together, So that's the best case to pursue. So we're at court on an April fifteenth day, and Yates wants to represent himself.

Of course, all the psychos do.

The judge presiding this case is Elena Barth, light red hair with hoops, and Melinda Warner's on the stand, what a little blessing, and we hear her voice and we see the jury passing down photos as she explains that the evidence shows that Nadia was struck over and over with a heavy object and was strangled bound like she just you know, gives the rundown of all the stuff that's happening. I mean, we know Yates is about to pull some nonsense, and so it's his turn to ask questions.

Like not a real lawyer can object you. It's just get it together, Barba.

I'm scared for what Yates is about to do to her in the stand. So Yates asks how she met Nadia, and basically she arrested her for working as an escort and she was on drugs and addicted to heroin when she was arrested, and the camera goes to the jury as one woman changes her face like I guess she was supposed to be murdered.

Yeah, they always get that with like these people that played jurors that are like hmm, like the face that's like heroin. Yeah, you kind of had it coming, sweetheart, Like it's fucked. Yeah, but that's how people are. It's just like most people, they're just on it reads on their faces so perfectly, you know. Yeah, it's Yeah.

What I keep thinking about is people on juries that are like these anti abortion people that are like, well just close your legs and that's it, and it's like, yeah, that's the Yeah, you're right, you just solved a big problem. It's like these dense as people who don't see anything.

Okay.

Yeah, Like because she was on heroine, she dug herself a shallow grave and jumped right in it and assaulted herself. So anyways, she did rehab, she was clean, she's been sober.

They became roommates. They hung out every day for a year. They're besties.

And then he calls Nadia a little rescue project and how I guess you failed. Then Barbara doesn't objection, and Elena is like, you're done. Mystery ates, and then he goes okay, Doki and just sits down like this is not affecting him at all. Sophia shakes her head in disbelief that this just happened, that, like, you know, Nadia was just discredited fully because of her you know, tumultuous past. She gets off the stand feeling bad but she tried her best. But her and Hank are not happy with

He he's a trickster.

So him and Benson go to prepmore, but Benson says, give me a second to go talk to her, you know, her friends from Chicago, and she says, maybe you don't want to be in the courtroom and he goes, oh, yes, I do, and then storms off to go listen.

To emo music in his room. And like punch a pillow.

So now Benson is now on the stand and Barba is questioning her. She's saying that they found Deanna and Lindsay's car and bled from the victim, and he claimed that Nadi and him into the car. He did not explain the blood, but he said he was sure that she must have suffered. First question out the gate for Yates is to asks you don't like me, do you? And Barbara objecks Elena sustains it questions to the case.

Where is this going?

Because basically Benson says they talked to this guy because he knew another woman that had gone missing, and that he's trying to pin it on this guy, so that's what he's trying to do.

So this guy came.

To Chicago right before that victim and works at the same hospital as the victim. So this Will Hallstead guy is a doctor at this hospital and the victim knows him.

And they talked to him and.

They're like, yeah, but we ruled him out because of an alibi, and Yates is smiling, so it's a bad sign. And basically the alibi was confirmed by Chicago Intelligence Unit, which is the nondescript white guy and so his name. So what we learn is the nondescript cop is Halstead, who is brothers with the doctor. So this cop brother is the alibi for this doctor. So this is fucking shady and Chicago should have taken care of this.

This is like such sloppy way. It looks bad, bad optics, for sure, it's so bad.

And they're like, yeah, you went to find someone else to pin the murder on. You're trying to defend this brother, and Benson's like, the doctor was cleared because he didn't do it. He Gates asked if they asked where he was when Nadia went missing, and Benson says no, and he says, well, I guess you didn't want to know that didn't you.

So that was a really good line of questioning.

And we're back in the hallway and Hall said, is trying to excuse this sloppy bs to Sophia Rollins and Hank and Finn, and Fing goes he's smart, and Hank says he's scum.

I just love this. Rollin says he knows what he's doing. He gets off on torture even if it's in court. They enter the elevator and the doors closed very dramatically, and then we open back up at the Supreme Court, Part twenty one and Yates is on the stand and he's claiming that he saw Nadia outside the police station and that she warned him that the police were looking for a patsy and he should watch out.

Like the story keeps changing. I hate him. And that's when you decided to move to New York with her?

Like what is happening?

And he said, no, you decided to leave with her when she described what Chicago Pede was doing to her. Barba, come on, get him, Like that's all I keep thinking about.

I'm like, get this motherfucker. And also Yates has co counsel and it's this woman in Tweed and we'll be calling her tweed for the rest of the show.

And he and like, he's a surgeon, so he's fucking rich. So I'm sure she's like a really good lawyer. So Yeates says that the boss, Hank Void, was making her have sex with him, and so Yates was helping her escape. He wanted to stop the boss from raping her, and she was just strawt and wanted to get high. And as she got to New York, she wents to go get a fix. And now Barbara, on his second objection during the line of questioning for hearsay like, you can't

In that moment she left behind.

Two thousand dollars in her savings, account, all her clothes, all her belongings, and just left with you.

And I'm like, get him, Jade and like, and Barbara goes.

So she wanted to leave all her friends at NA and all her new friends that she made, and Yates calls her desperate and he starts babbling about other shit and Barbara and the judge won't let him, like, no, bitch, you just answer the question. You cannot be babbling. And Barba then asked, did Nadia know you were a suspect for brutal rape murders? And he said yes, So you're telling me this entire squad is looking for you for

But obviously Yates is not going.

To listen to a woman, and he starts creaking his neck like he did you know earlier with his horny rage murder vibe at the stewardess's apartment and Barbara looks at Benson and they nod at each other, and Benson and Rollins meet in the hallway and tell Barbara go a job, and Rollins is like, you saw what we saw, Like we all saw the same thing and the real Greg yates and it's like yeah, and I hope the jury saw it.

And then Barbara goes, don't worry, they will. Yeah. This is like Dallas Roberts is like so good because just this like that horny like trance he goes into when he's like about to kill someone or thinking about killing the act of killing is really it's so fucking creepy. He's really good.

It's really good because it's it's like evil and turned on. And he's a great actor. You know, he's a theater boy. He's a theater boy. So we're back at court and Melinda is back on the stand and Barbara's gonna ask her to go through the injuries again and tweet Jackets like we already did this, and Barba says, I mean, you said the victim was a sex worker, and I have the right to refute that, and the judge agrees, So we let Barbara go to work and he displays

I don't remember that sentence, but now I'll never forget it.

So she was assaulted in both places by the same person, that is what she is saying is very likely, and the damage happened at the same time. So then Barbara goes and picks up the photo of the dead head and like fully is turning it to Yates, like full horizontal, like shoving it in his face.

Yeah, it's not even a cheating, it's like a full I want to see.

Yeah, And oh my god, did you watch the hocus Pocus two trailer came out this morning?

No?

Okay, So anyways, so Benson nods. She's like getting wet for what's about to happen. And then Barba sits down, and you know, it was a quick line of questioning because this is all just a ploy, and I wonder if from Melinda's in on it, but I think she is,

I know No, it is not likely, bitch, it is not likely.

She was fucking savage, And he asks how so, and Melinda goes into the details of all the injuries, and he starts asking more and more specific questions about the injuries. And I mean, he says anal sphincter. It's like not a fun line of sentences. I thought of that when I was lying in bed this morning. I was like, oh remember when he said that.

Oh yeah, I didn't like it.

And I'm not going to tell you what happened to the anal sphincter. I'll tell you that much respect then as or I thought if I type it, the government would come arrest me.

Okay.

So then he asked like was it painful and she says yes, it was a slow, painful death. And he asks how long she survived after first attack and would she be in agony the whole time?

And the judge is like, Barbara, do you have any objections? And he goes, oh, no, I'm fine, your honor, thank you. But what would the objection be about, Like here's say or like irrelevance, Like this guy's just jerking off to the details of the you know, like the horrors, and so yeah, I just probably irrelevance. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but I would imagine.

So he keeps asking if she was in a lot of pain. He likes knowing she was in pain. Melinda turns to make eye contact with the judge and they have a moment like what the fuck? And he is full creepy and Melinda's letting him know every detail that he wants to hear, and he asks, like what goes through a victim's head through her final moments in life? And finally the tweet jacket, It's like stop, can I can I talk to my client? And Gates is like,

You know, he's cracking his neck.

He asks if she had awareness of what was going on, like did she know these were the final moments of her life? And then he loses it and fully starts screaming, come on, doctor, we are both medical people.

Use your knowledge. And then he checks out the jury and finally he sees that they are horrified, creeped out and confused, like their faces have changed fully, and so he like snaps back into reality and easy. Breezy goes, or don't. That didn't make me laugh? And then he's use your knowledge or don't.

He's so talented, and he goes back and sits down, and Tweed can't even look at him, like I think.

She's like, oh my god, I gotta stay safe.

Benson looks hot, and then it's jury reading time, and this woman says rape and sodomy guilty, murder first degree guilty. Elena puts his ass in custody from until sentencing. Hank shakes Barba's hand. Yates looks at Hank. He gets carried off. Okay, So now everyone's at the cop bar and then there's a giant American flag and Holes said goes, we will miss her.

They're all very quiet.

Sophia raises her drink and says tonati and they all cheers, and Finn is drinking red wine. I didn't know that, and he has and he had a ring on, and Benson, of course is drinking red wine.

And then a bunch of them have liquor, and Caresy has a beer bottle, and now it's courthouse holding time, and Hank goes to sea Yates and starts choking him so obviously like he you know, sweet talked his way into the cell and starts choking the shit out of him and says, you didn't see me coming because you dropped your guard for a second. And he's choking, and he says it's really kind of hot. He goes, I can end this now, I can snap your neck and

But Hank goes super close to sim and says, what's the hurry. I want to make you feel what others feel, the pain, the fear, looking over your shoulder when you eat or take a leak, and sleeping with both eyes open, and someone will do to you what you did to Nadia. It's coming and Yates look serious, and then it's the end of an incredible episode.

Wow, thank you Lisa, what a good recap that was like so speedy for a jam packed episode too, because I think we were worried because you saw how many pages it was. But I guess you know I was. But it moves at a clip this episode.

But sometimes my lines are just like whoa, and then it's the.

Next line like, I don't it's not like yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say about a page of your notes are just your thoughts.

Yeah, side thoughts, okay, yeah, just in little increments. I don't know anything about that. You know what else fucks me up? With the beach scene. I kept anticipating the beach scene from Hunting Ground.

I know what you're talking about where all the dogs are. Yeah, I know. I have the exact same experience. And that's interesting that you say that. And we'll get into that right after the break when we talk about the true crime. Okay, we are back and this episode listen. I understand that some of you are probably waiting for me to talk about Ted Bundy. I think that this is really this character. There's really a mashup of Ted Bundy and the Long

But that makes me so happy. I am so I really hope he doesn't listen to this. The fact that you can be an at large serial killer, just like reading about your crimes and listening to people talk about you is so fucked up and it just hit me in a real way.

It's really wild too, because we have so few serial killers now that can avoid like DNA, CCTV, like you know, all the just like all the things that led in the seventies and eighties, things that were missing that led there to be so many prolific serial killers, we just don't have that. In the nineties and the two thousands, we haven't had as many of those. So it's it's interesting. So this guy was obviously a very organized killer who

Tammy Bahama Jimmy Buffett vibe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People are kind of like it seems like people are pretty wealthy out there, but I couldn't really get a beat on, like what else was going on out there. So anyway, this is just like a kind of a weird, very insular beachy town. And she gets this call out there for you know, someone interested in her services. And she gets out there around midnight and she's there with Michael Pack. It's not her boyfriend this time, it's Michael Pack driving her. The John comes out.

Like if we don't get on SVU, maybe we can be in a reenactment on HLN.

These Reinnacs are funny. I really recommend you guys go check it out. Like they just keep showing her putting on lip gloss as like a way to show that she's a sex worker. Anyway, Michael tries to calm her down. Joe Brewer's like, you gotta go. And I know this because I've listened to the nine one one call. And she runs out of the house and Michael Pack's like, what the fuck is going on? He's kind of annoyed. She starts running through the neighborhood, knocking on doors and

Wait, what is cider house rules about? I remember the ads. I know it's Charlie's and Toby, but what is it?

No idea. I think it's a bunch of orphans. I think it's an orphan house. I don't know if that's what it was. It looked like a romantic movie. No, but they may grow up, but it's about kids at the beginning. Oh really, yeah, I'm pretty sure. I have no idea. I've never seen that. Oh wait, someone I was hanging out with their son goes to school with Toby McGuire's kids, and you know, kids love Spider Man. So her son came home and was like, I'm not

World War two era main orphanage run by a doctor who trained him and his journey leaving the orphanage.

Okay, this is exciting news.

Yeah.

I mean I thought it was just like a fuck movie. Oh no, no, no, I.

Because I remember Shirley's and Toby McGuire like connecting in the ads. But then Michael Caine looks crazy on top of them.

I cannot buy that at all, because I find Toby McGuire to be so unattractive. I guess he was part of the Pussy Posse. You're fine, I know, oh, I know. Trust plenty of people in the Pussy Posse were not good looking in my opinion. But anyway, he so he asks for Shannon. He says he runs a home for wayward girls. He tells the mother that he saw Shann in the night she disappeared and gave her drugs to calm her down. Okay, And she says to him, how

So me, can't they tell with the decomp or like how long or like environmental damage to the parts if it was dumped when they were dumped or is that a Melinda Warner fantasy.

I think that might be a Milinda Warner fantasy, just because like everything's decomp like this is just bones. They're fighting at this point of these of these people, so.

You know, well and I guess Rudnick and we're murdering friends, like this could be just like some bros doing it together.

Too completely completely. I mean it's also what's crazy though, is it is just like a really really vast area, and so you could be dumping bodies anywhere, and you're dumping them sort of in the same place. And then in two thousand and six, which is earlier than they found the Gilgo Beach Girls, four victims in Atlantic City were found the victims of the Eastbound Strangler. They called him all sex workers, all strangled, All bodies were methodically

And did you know that the term stan came from an Eminem song? Yes, Okay, well I learned that yesterday.

I knew it only because when I worked at MTV we constantly talked about stands. And when I worked at MTV, like we'd be like, oh, the Beyonce stands this and that. So I knew it. I've known it since like twenty eleven when I worked at MTV. But yeah, I would say a lot of people don't know that, and now now you know I was the only one. But no,

Yeah.

I don't think so, Like this just does not track, Like no one buys this, okay. And then Shannon's family brought a lawsuit to force the people of Oak Beach to talk, and she thinks, like she's at press conferences going I think Peter Hackett is involved in this absolutely for sure. Okay. I found a funny little extra thing that in twenty twelve, Shannon's family Facebook page actually posted

Never show up? Why didn't they ever show up? And then nine one one call?

They could they It's really wild, like they couldn't track her or something like that. Remember I told you it like went to a different jurisdiction, Like she asked on the phone, can you track where I am? And the woman goes, I can't, and then they tried to like move her because it was like, maybe it's because Oak Beach is like this, like private community. I don't know what the nine to one one situation is out there.

Yeah, it's really like I don't get how she wasn't found. Yeah, And I don't get why they wouldn't investigate or bring in that. I just hate the police so much.

I think they blame it on like the marshland, Like the area where she was was like really hard to search, and they eventually got this like you know vehicle that I told you about that can like be on top of the marsh or whatever. But I don't know, I'm never going to Long Island. I mean it's wild. I mean it's just like it is scary that there's so I didn't I don't really think of Long Island as like that, as having all this abandoned area, like so

You sell yourself way too short.

Well, just for our listeners, I arrive at our friends show that we've been promoting NonStop on this podcast. Oh God, an hour about abortion at the Cheerleyan Theater and Lisa's like, our good friend Arden Marine is there and she goes art here and she brought a guy from SVU and I'm like cool, like a guy who found the body, like like whatever, like a guy who played a car parking attendant. I could care less. I mean not, I could care less. I was like neat, she just buried

Yeah, you know, who knew going to the theater could bring such fun.

In terms of do other SVU fans see you in the streets and get mad at you.

I can always tell when it's rerunning because I'll go order a beer or go to the deli or you know, I'll just be and they'll be like, oh can I help you? Oh no, no, no, I have It's uh. I think he's kept me from getting dates at times, like when people sort of you know, if they google, I don't. I don't have any social media, so you have to sort of google me and then that tends to be up there Gregory Yates and uh, you know, I genuinely think people have gotten spooked before. It's just acting.

Yeah, but it's it's a testament to how good you are, because there's plenty of creeps all over SVU every week, but you are like a you're a creep to remember what how did it like? We know that your character, this character started on Chicago PD and then it was a crossover into SVU, So how did it like all start? Did you just going it was going to be a lot? Yeah? So is that once or did you keep getting surprised?

Uh? I knew that it was going to be the crossover event of the decade. But I believe the chronology is right that I I get this is this is daydream believer talking about yes or yeah. I believe I get put away in this and then in the beginning of the next season of straight up Law and Order, I come back to sort of you know, uh, and

And so did you know you were going to be friends with Rednick?

That was all surprises, yes, No, that was surprises later.

Yes, So that's exciting. So you killed it. I mean, what we talked about.

A lot is your evil, horny, sweat like face that there's like a sheen of sweat cracking the neck. How did you how did you decide that characterization for the creepy vibe.

Yeah, it's the most fun, it really is playing bad guys because you just, first of all, you don't care about anyone else, and every time they like try and make you mad, or try and make you upset, or try and play on your heart strings, you just find it cute, hilarious. And so then you know, like I knew that he was going to have to be overcome by this sweaty, sheeny, horny face when looking at pictures of dead Nadia. So you try and put it in, layer it in, you know before, so the audience has

And do you decide that on your own doing your own work or is that something you talk about with the director or like or were they like, we love this, We're bringing you back for more of this vibe.

Yeah, I mean I knew that it was I knew that it was something I had to layer in because it was going to be such a turn for him. It's you know, he basically puts himself away from the fact that he can't control his tink. But you know, you talk with the other people, the writers and the director and just make sure that that line is tracking, make sure that you know it's there. Okay, we got it Okay, great, because I'm going to use that later, you know.

Yeah, and in all evil fashion, you did represent yourself, which.

Got to yeah, that's so fun.

Yeah.

I remember it was like the first day of that big courtroom scene and like everyone from both shows are there. There's like seventeen million dollars sitting in the you know, the gallery, and they were like, Oh, it's going to be this, and it's going to be this, and then you know, like halfway through the day it'll be you. And I was like, oh great, I can sit here and memorize my lines while this other eight hours of

Oh my god, I want to rewatch that. Yeah, that's perfect. An actor remembering his lines is a lot like a serial killer defending himself. I like that, Yeah, just learning as you go on the fly. Do you do research on killers? No?

I mean, you know, they described him as a Ted Bundy type guy, and I remember, like I'm an old man, so like when Ted Bundy was executed in Florida, I was in high school and I was very against the death penalty, even for people like Ted Bundy. So I sort of I was involved, you know, in a way that a sixteen year old can be involved, you know, So I sort of had that. I you know, because the killing all that stuff takes place off screen. I don't really care so much about that. It's more the

And then it's like annoying in the courtroom scene too, because like you're also smart, like you're also not a bad lawyer for like it's like you did go to medical school. This character is smart.

So yeah, no, I was watching it again. I have to say the writing was really really let me off the hook so in so many ways, in a beautiful way. Like he's he's pushing something. I forget exactly what it was, and he steps over the line and objection and the judge goes, you know, restrict your line of questioning to the thing, and he I'm sure I didn't improvise it.

Yeah, yeah, he's unbothered. He's not. Yeah, confidence to the max, confidence on steroids. Well, we wanted to know who do you think is more evil? Yates or Rudnick Long pause.

I mean what you know, like m once you're in the profession of killing people. Serially, the distance between evil is very slim. I don't know, I'll take it. I'm more evil.

It is put on trophy. Yeah, let's patterns and you like helped Redneck. So I don't know, so unfairly or.

Fairly us And the audience goes back and forth with hating Amanda Collins aka Kelly Giddish. You work with her a lot, so are there things you can tell us about your time working together that might switch the people that hate her?

Well, first of all, I met Kelly Giddish I can't even tell you when somewhere late nineties, early two thousands at the O'Neill Center in Connecticut, working on theater together. So I've known her for forever. And then when it was like, oh shit, dude's on Law and Order, and then it was like, oh man, I get to play with her. So we just had a ball the whole time because we're kind of especially in that episode, I'm

Not not really the actress. I think it's Amanda Rollins more as a person that they have the issue with. No One everyone hears that Kelly Giddish is a lovely person.

You know, you mentioned that you met Kelly Giddish so long ago through theater. You also went to Juilliard and at theater in New York for so long. Do you have tons of friends that have been on SVU and all the Law and Orders? Is it like Pokemon. You guys are like comparing and seeing what's up.

Yeah, it's like grad school. Like Jenna Stern was my judge on this episode, Shan I dated briefly no way, you know, like Coop back in the day. Oh, here's a good here's a good Scoop.

Uh.

The episode is called Daydream Believer, and I was circling this phenomenal young lady named Indigo Street and she at one point was like, Uh, what are you doing today? And I said, Oh, I'm getting I'm going to a costume fitting. I've got to play a serial killer on Law and Order. And she was like, is it the Law and Order where you sing Daydream Believer? And I was like yes, and she was like, I'm singing the track that you sing along to. So in the beginning

That's because we talked about that. We're like. I was like, oh, by the way, this is a monkey song, but this is a cover that they're doing, and so the singer of that cover is Indigo Street.

Wow. Yes and yeah, and we we literally sing a duet together. It's amazing. You know, two separate places.

Yeah, and you mentioned that you watched the episode this morning. Do you always watch your work or was it special.

For us, special for you? I stopped watching myself. I stopped watching myself. I think in twenty ten it it generally makes me feel not happy. I'm a very delicate flower. But I have to say, like I was. I was pleasantly surprised this morning. I was like, oh you did all right. Like my very first movie, Sissy Spacek played my mother, and she said, never watch yourself, don't watch yourself. And I was like, uh, Sissy, I'm going to be

Well, I'm like, I like, never read the comments, and I'm always like yeah, I don't read the comments, and then I fully read the comments. Right, I can't stop myself. It's like horrible. Did these basic daughter has been on SVU?

Oh yeah, yeah, oh nice?

Yeah, but she was wild.

She kept killing her babies that her father was impregnating her with.

Yes, SPA does some weird things. I think the first time I was on I was a I was a self loathing homosexual who dealt with that by raping women. And I was like, okay, these are what Wait?

Did you audition for this or did they bring you back after just because they remembered you from week.

I don't remember. Uh No, I don't remember whether I auditioned for it or not. It's that sounds like I'm getting offers all the time, and I have that's not true. But I remember there was a moment there where like me and Dick Wolf were friends. Like I was the bad guy on the pilot of Elementary. I was the bad guy on you know, like I was just sort of constantly around. So I don't remember whether I actually read or not, but or whether they just called and said, will you do this?

I don't know if I realized Elementary was a Dick Wolf part project.

It's not. It's sorry, I conflated two different things in my old age. Dick Wolf's Elementary on CBS, a.

Different network, different than Matt.

Yeah, I think maybe that's it. Maybe it was less Dick Wolf and more like I was the TV bad guy for a hot second there.

Well, that's what I was going to ask you about that, because it's funny to me, like you, to me, you're this TV bad guy. But then I watched you in Insatiable, where you're this like, you know, beauty pageant coach, and you're very funny in that. But then you've played a scientist in The Walking Dead, right, and then you just to me, looking at your IMDb, you you really play

Honestly, I'm just I think it's because I've never hit in anything big, like as soon as you if I hit Insatiable, it would not a lot of people would hire me to be the bad guy. If you know, if you hit in a comedy, they're like, he's a comedy guy. Some people manage to make it through and you know, continue to be a chameleon after really sort of bouncing off the the brain pen of you know,

Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting.

You probably have more time on your hands too. Oh, I spent fifteen hours a day on Instagram, so you're really probably accomplishing a lot.

I don't. I wish I could say that. Yeah, I do have a lot of time on my hands, just it's the nature of being an actor. But I feel it like I just spent the last I don't know three weeks learning to make English muffins from scratch.

Whoa, yeahs nooks and crannies, and my kid came in like for the fifth straight day after school and I'm like laboring over this stove and he just looked at me and he was like English muffins again.

And I was like yeah, and he goes, You're the king of side quests. That's what you can do America. If you in the world, if you put down the social media, you can get all sorts of side quests.

Then amazing. How old are your kids.

Seventeen and fifteen?

Wow? And are they into the acting game or what?

No? No, okay, yeah. Ten years ago when my eldest was like seven, it was some kind of television thing and I needed a picture of my family on my desk and they said, do does your son want to be the sun? And I was like, I don't know, I'll ask him. So I said, hey, buddy, there's this thing. They need a picture of my family and some mother and a son. Do you And they asked me if you wanted to be the sun? And he was like, well,

Whatever this is?

Yeah, I mean you keep doing that.

That's so funny. Do they come to your place?

They've never seen it. I was just realizing this, they've never seen a play that I've been in, because they the plays that I've been in have been not appropriate for their age. And then, uh, you know, I think they might have watched two episodes of Insatiable. I think just Dad in general is like boring, like you know, and they like all of my friends are actors and so all of like their uncles and aunts and you know, everyone's on TV. So they're all like they're just non

Oh my god, yeah, like a creepy teacher on Euphoria or something totally I could see it, or like a cool dad I don't know.

Yeah, he doesn't have to be creepy.

Wait, so, speaking of different roles that you played. So I do watch Big Sky, but I am behind by like this whole last season. It's sitting on my DVR waiting for me. I have two young children and have been unable to catch it up. But what do you play on Big Sky? Are you a creep?

I'm not a creep.

You're a good guy.

Well, oh, I mean I'm a rancher. I don't want to spoil it for you. Okay, Yeah, I'm a rancher whose son dies in a drug overdose and failing the sort of protections of that one would expect from the state and the government, he might take matters into his own hands.

Magil Ante justice. Yeah, there's a lot of ranchers with a dark side on Big Sky. And yeah, yeah, I'm okay, I'm feeling it. You're I'm going to get back into it. I got it just sitting there. I mean, I'm going to watch them. I like the show a lot, but I had to know if you were going to because, like, there's a lot of trafficking and psychopaths in that show, and I was just wondering if you were jumping back into that or not.

Yeah, No, I was. I think I was, you know, if you had to put a fine point on it, I was. I'm probably on the side of good on that show, even though I'm breaking also of laws and more is.

Yeah yeah, yeah, but I just saw a quote today if the laws are unjust, we must break them.

Hell yes, yes, glorious sign. I'm talking not just some rando. It was either my fitness influencer or I just found out one of the psychologists I follow is a cult leader, so I had done follow her, but I'm no, it's the holistic psychologists. She has like five point three million followers and is a culty bad Like, she's not a certified psychologist in any way, but she's acting like she is, and she's in whatever. Someone set me in FO. They're like,

Like truly for my mom's friend gave her social Security number into the computer.

I mean, yeah, people are being tricked. Someone in my mom group said her mother just took her mother, just took out four hundred thousand dollars, just wired it to Polish banks and no one flagged it. No one said anything about this elderly woman Chase Bank, like she just went in multiple times and was four hundred thousand dollars chaos crazy. Anyway, another back on track. We wanted to ask you about so this project that you're doing with Arden, because when we saw you in New York, that's what

Yeah, In the way that these things go, my presence is not enough to get financing for the movie. So I've been dropped from the movie, which is yeah, it's fine, it happened all that. Like when they call you to go, like sign a letter at intent so that we can take this to the financiers to get money, and I'm like, oh, you mean me, You want me to sign a letter of intent. I'm like, you're dead. You're dead in the water. So I don't know. I wish them the best, but I won't.

Be doing it, so I didn't mean to like bring it up. If that sounds shitty, that's sucking.

It's it's it is shitty. It's a shitty business. But it's not the first time, so I'm not you know, I'm I'm genuinely used to it.

It's just wild because your IMDb is fucking stacked. Like I'm even just like glancing at it again. Now you've been in you're like, we see, we meet so many people that have done like one little role on one hundred shows, but you like come back on everything you do, you're recurring, Like that's I think huge.

Yeah. No, I've been very fortunate, so fun sucks me. I mean, not to suck them, but you know, go with guy or however you wish to say that now. I've been fortunate to you know, to be it was very important for me to be a New York actor when I was coming out of school and managing to sort of cobble together you know, television and film whilst remaining in New York. I've been very fortunate in that regard. And you know, unless they shoot me dead, they usually will find a way to ask me back.

Yeah, Yeah, unfortunately you do die on Chicago PD. Right, they bring you back to Chicago p D and then you are killed, which I feel like I didn't even know that because I'm not a Chicago p D watcher.

Yeah.

I didn't even know that though until I started looking at this episode because I don't watch Chicago PD. So I think I was like, oh, what happens to eight's again? And then when you look it up, it's like, oh, full Chicago p D death at the hands of Sophia Bush, I think.

Right, yeah, in a basement, if I remember correctly.

Where you had just killed your own dad or something.

Yes, I pushed someone off of something. It was there was a height, yeah, and then I just I just remember them putting the like the dot on my forehead where the bullet went through on the ground for a while. Yeah. Well, after I'm dead, you know, like you go like they go bang and you go like that, and then they do it with computers. But then afterwards it's practical makeup.

Wow. Yeah, let me ask you this. So you had to you had to be violent with the actress that played Nadia, So how did that work out?

Like?

How does that work? I mean, you were like those scenes are so scary. You're like slapping her and like and.

That must not be real tape? Is there a movie magic with the tape or is it real tape?

On her? It's it's tape. But it's like they'll take they'll take Electricians tape and then they'll take just a tiny bit, smaller bit of Electricians tape and stick it to the back. So it's definitely it's sticking to her face there, and it's sticking to her face there, but I just have to barely peel it off and then it comes off.

Yeah.

Yeah. The slapping, you know, is all done with like uh, I mean people who you know, like you just you make it look like, you know, I'm never actually slapping anyone. Yeah, the camera makes it look that way. I did. There was a moment when she was in the trunk today and I'm done with her, and I like hit her with a newspaper or something. I might have actually done that, you know, like if it's something that you know, I know is not going to hurt you, because it wasn't

Yeah yeah, yeah.

I might do that. But you know, like because of some incidences in my career. I'm usually very careful about, you know, making sure that everybody's cool and safe, and I don't you know, the worst part about playing a killer is like you're you're genuinely with this other person who's a woman who's usually younger than you are, and you're just fucking with her so hard. So I try and switch it off immediately after and be like, are you all right? Is everything cool? Like do you know

Yeah, we always ask people that too. We're like, yeah, We're like, do you guys like joke in between takes or are you like Meisner, like keeping it fully real the whole time, because I would think that on that show you really have to. People have told us that you really have to joke around in between just because in general, the subject matter is so dark on us for you you know.

Yeah, that actress I forget her name, unfortunately, but she was she was less jokey because she was losing her job, you know, like at the end of the at the end of the yeah, so you know, I was. I was cognizant of that and sort of I try to be as gentle as I could with her about it, and we were talking, you know, just as actors in between, more about how crazy the business is and how you you know, you get this thing and then suddenly it goes away for you know what I mean.

Yeah, like you get the series regular dream job and then it's like bye.

Yeah, yeah, and yeah, somebody made that decision somewhere up the line, and it's just like what you have to do. But yeah, it just I would say, yes, when you're making something that sort of serious and dark, you tend to sort of lighten it up. But it also some some people are uh, you know, maisonery and stay in it and you know, so you just sort of have to play with who who? Who you play with? Yeah?

Against that.

Well, I've heard of someone was saying how it's like why is no one fully in character when it's a nice guy. It's always like when you're playing a Josh, you want to like fucking terrorize everyone, but no one's playing gandamn being like I'm gonna be Caine, right, So I don't buy it.

I'm like, I don't believe any of it.

No, it's it's a it's a I've never found a use for it, and I think it's because I came up in the theater where you know, you literally go like and then that's when my sister died, and like tears are falling down your face and they black out and you pick up the table with the other actor and move it off, and you know, like it's just there's no ability to stay in it like you have You're like, I'm.

Actually a little bit too distraught to move set furniture right now.

Totally.

Yeah, yeah, I was.

A big L word fan, so I just wanted to ask what was it like working with Pam Greer and being on that set.

And just that was incredible. That was my first time being a series regular, and it was my I sort of learned to make TV. I mean I've done you know, like Law and Order one episode, like New York Undercover one episode, like little sort of things, but that was my first, like, here's how to show up to work every day and do it. You know, it's it was It was really wild, Like it's first of all, the show was not about me at all. I just got to sort of pop in and be burst Pam's bubble,

Wild And is your name real? Yeah? I was like, Dallas roberts is like too perfect of an actor name.

Yeah, my real name is Todd Smith, but I decided to change it to Dallas. No, it's not my real Name's Dallas Robertson really yeah. I like that idea though, though, that I like at some point went like it's gonna be Dallas Roberts Yep.

My dad like if I met you, if I met you working at like a rental car agency, I'd be like, you have an actor's name, Like it's just such an actor's name.

Yeah. Yeah. My dad is a Texan, proud Texan, and he wanted his first son to be named Dallas, and my mother said yes. And then he wanted his second son to be named Houston and my mother said no. Yeah, so my brother's name is Brian, which is also city in Texas.

Okay, yeah, funny, Oh my gosh, that's what. That's so funny. Yeah. Well you never didn't have to change it. That's good. Wait, I wanted to ask one more question because you so to us, like we after we met you in New York when we took a photo. We did a couple of live shows and we showed people the photo and they were like going crazy, like to a lot of people your yates, but to a lot of people, I'm

Even that's there. There's there is a little bit of profiling that goes on because I'm I'm not famous, I'm famous, So it's very rare very that someone will go are you Dallas Roberts. It's usually like are you do I know you from somewhere right, And then I'll be like, I'm on TV sometimes and they'll be like, oh, yeah, yeah, what what is it? And then you have to guess

Alicia Floro's brother is Carrie.

Yeah, the Walking Dead. When I was on I think season three when it was like humming, yeah, and you never met I never met a fan that was like I dig The Walking Dead. Like every fan was like, oh my god, you know, so that was intense for a while.

Yeah, that's I think that's what I was what we were wondering because I've always heard that about their fans, and like, I listened to this podcast that later got made into a TV show where a girl was able to self defense herself from her own attempted murder and murder her attacker because she watched The Walking Dead.

Oh wow.

Yeah, And so the fans I just know, are like so hardcore that I was like, I wonder, yeah, was it the Dirty John thing? Yes? Yeah, Dirty John? Yeah? Do you know about that? It's like a crime podcasting. But yeah, the girl fought off her fucking attacker from the Walking Down. Her mom's boyfriend tried to murder her. He was a grifter age of the Drifter, and she like knew exactly what to do because she's like, I just watched The Walking Dead all the time, and you're like, oh my god.

I got out my chain I saw on my baseball bat with barbed wire on it.

Before we leave you any like tidbits from set, funny story, something about any of the cast members that you know we would all be excited to hear.

Yeah, no, I think we covered it, you know, like it was great to work with Kelly. It's great to you know, Ice is funny. I make music. It's part of my side quests and so I'm you know, like I've got all these like beeping lights and stuff and headphones on in my in my door was hoping. He walked by and he was like, what are you making? And so we had like a little sort of like yo, I haven't seen that, you know, like I'm making a beat with Ice.

Wo.

Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's I look, I look quite fondly on that.

That experience good and I'm glad you got to watch yourself in it because it is such a performance, thank you, such little moments and layered evil and it's just very very good. Yeah, so great. Is there any anything that you want our listeners to check out, like anything specific that's like recently come out or coming out or anything. Uh, since I know we can't direct them to your socials.

Right, yes, just uh you can't follow me on socials and don't follow me in the street.

No, we searched. Oh, we saw that there are some fan accounts. There are some fan accounts that are like going to art in who she follows, who follow her? We really went on a search and right too, pool for and stuff.

My kids have Instagram and so that's my sort of lens into it.

And you don't. I mean, I'll never get off of it. I'm addicted, but you don't need it. This was awesome, though, Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.

Guys, Thanks so much for having me. No, it was genuine pleasure and I got to, you know, go back and watch it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And hopefully we'll run into you through Arden again one of these days and we'll be more chill because now we've talked to you.

No worries.

That was fun, so fun. I love him. I could talk to him all day.

Yeah.

I bet we could see him in New York. I bet we could get a hang out of him. I wonder if I'm at Diane Neil or buds, we can all get fucked up, stay out past one in the morning, how about that? Yeah? What the fuck?

I'm still so pissed at this town and I keep trying to have you know, I go to the beach, I'm going pools, I'm making plans, I'm being out, I'm being active. Yeah, trying to enjoy this fucking town. And then at one in the morning, it's like, go home, you dumb bitch. Yeah, it's not a late town. It's so early to rise, early to bed kind of town. I mean I think that's yeah, I'm up early too. The sun is wild the sun is popping in my apartment.

The sun is popping, the sun is wilding out every fucking morning.

God.

Our friend Mike Joyce posted this. But you know, everyone's like so into the new Cosmos photos. They love the space, they love the galaxies, and they keep showing how Hubble sucks, and they're like, okay, drag Hubble all day, like it's done so much work. I just couldn't believe out. Michael's like, okay,

Like yeah, but I said this out loudest on yesterday and they go, no, the Hubble has done so much good work. And they started like telling me all these details about the Hubble and I'm like, okay, I don't I but I guess the Hubble's taken like seventy thousand folks like something like the Hubble's been working for the Hubble.

Oh, the Hubble's been booked and blessed. Baby, she wor she works. I like that.

Everyone likes space. It's just like, can we just get an alien though? Like, what the fuck? Why are these aliens playing with us? I don't know, Come visit, Come visit, visit baby. It's almost like maybe they're not there. What if there are aliens listening to this podcast? Like that would be fun.

Oh, that would be fun. They have Apple they download on or they listen to iHeart they have the iHeart app. Yeah, because it's not like podcasts or even like radio, like it's more likely that aliens can hear like your local z Morning Zoo DJ Like that's because that's like terrestrial like radio waves.

I will say a positive about LA great radio stations that I was good as Chicago, but like the wave and one O two seven are just like so good.

Oh and ninety three five KD for old school hip hop is really good. If you have that, I thought that's the wave. Maybe that's the way. What's the wave? I don't know, but ninety three five is Cada. That's yeah, that's the one I have one O two seven and then I think the wave. But do you remember? I mean I used to like call Eddie and Joebo, like I used to call for Pride, like the radio was everything. I used to call. It was one hundred in New York.

Was I had a VHS tape of Ace of Bass like behind the scenes, how they made it.

Yeah, we were a big Ace of Base household well.

And then the one of the Ace of basers was on below deck and was kind of a douche and like I remember, one of the crew members was like, Okay, you were an Ace of Base, Like we don't care, stop talking about.

Your songs. Okay, but we should talk about this. Let's talk about this episode. Let's do the post mort man into your house. No one should help you with your luggage, with your groceries.

I saw this online. We might have talked about last episode. I do repeat myself often. But a man would never ask a woman for help. Ever, So if a man's asking you for something, they're a criminal.

Yeah. Yeah. I had a guy come to my house once when I was pregnant and his head was bleeding and he was like, can I come in? And I was like, no, I'm sorry, I but I called him an uber? What did he want? Some paper towels for his bleeding head? I don't know. No, go to super a bitch? Are you kidding me? It was at my It was at my old house, and I was I was luckily I had a friend there, but I was

Yeah, we gotta get knives. These people are bold. But yeah, don't men do not need help? I might have said this on this episode already. Yeah, do you remember, I don't know, I don't know. I actually don't think you did. But yeah, I mean, let anyone in your house. Yeah, and even if it's honestly, even if it's like, you know, a woman with a baby, it's a fake baby.

Don't trust it. Yeah, help from a distance. That was how they got sister Peg in pure remember help me my baby. And then when they went back there, boom what else when talks a fucking sister peg? Yeah, and this crime like unsolved, so scary could still be out there. Cops never make it like you know, connections, it's a whole secretive town. Don't go to secretive towns. Don't leave your phone at home, like if someone if you go to someone's house and they're like, don't bring your phone

Well, we were at our friend's house and I saw a photo on the fridge.

I was like, oh, this looks cute. What's it from?

And Kara was there to witness her saying that she was at Adam Sandler's daughter's bot mitzvah and that's.

Fair see and it was star studded, dripping in celebs. I can't, Oh my god, I want to go to a rich ass bought mitzvah so bad you'll be you'll do you will? I see that for you. You think I'll have enough Jew friends that I'll get to go to a bouman? I think so, I think so. Yeah, I bet his wasn't at Ma Giano's.

Whatever.

It's a fox up crime.

MUDs are weird, marshas are weird, Stay out of swamps. Like everything is blaming the victim. All of my advice is like, don't trust anyone. I don't know, it's scary. The Long Island Killer is scary.

No, I know, I know. I mean it's just once again hammer home how vulnerable sex workers are, you know, like all the time.

Yeah, that's what I was about to say, Like bring back back pages, bring back how like make it legal?

Yeah yeah, it's really make it legal and keep people safe. Yeah, but so disrespectful and so disrespectful. Yeah, And like I like, there's a podcast that interviews porn stars all the time, not Asa Kire's this other one plug Talk, and like one of them was saying, she's like you don't realize how many people she goes. I get recognized all the time, Like I could tell people know who I am everywhere I go, and yet everyone denies it. Everyone is so mean,

Well, you know what they're trying to do right now, they're trying to put away the woman who lied about Emma tel Oh really yeah, she is alive in kicking and old, and people are like, put that bitch in jail, Like what are we waiting for? They put Nazis away all the time, like, put her away? Yeah, fuck, there is no doubt.

Yeah, as bridget Ever says, there are no deadlines. What is it? No deadlines for dreams. Dreams don't have deadlines.

And killers should be put away no matter what, or lying bitches like I'm sorry, yeah, should be put away.

No, for sure. That's horrible. I don't know why they have it. I don't know. Probably because everybody's racist. I don't know.

Well, also with like people trying to solve it, Like I was reading stuff and like there was like a lot of Twitter threads about people being mad that truth, Like family members of people who've been murdered are annoyed with people reaching out to them trying to like solve their family member's case.

Yeah, have you seen this stuff? No.

I guess like people like true crime listeners not ours, are like harassing surviving family members and being like, will help solve your daughter's case, and they're like leave me alone, Like, yeah, they're getting harassed.

I think about that with Cereal, like how popular Cereal was, and I'm like, wow, hay Manley's family must be like, leave us the fuck alone, because that was so viral and huge, and I bet everybody was just like everyone was sleuthing, you know. Yeah, I mean, and I get it.

I get the urge of wanting to solve a crime and be a hero, but also you gotta like resp I don't know, it's all so complicated, because I do know that there's like a backlash of like true crime stuff. But to me, I was thinking, like twenty twenty Dateline, all these shows were about crimes. It's all been true crime and no one cares, and then when it's women talking about it, suddenly it's like.

A big dilemma, right, right, And.

So obviously there's complications and there's things we care about. You know, it's sister Peg, and we try to do right by like all victims and all the crimes. You know, obviously we probably make mistakes. But it does seem suspicious.

That no one was mad at twenty twenty, but then everyone's mad at tea talking.

Yeah.

Interesting, Suddenly true crime has gotten too far. But not when you watched with your family on Friday, right, Like, Jean Benet, are you kidding?

Was that not toxic? Like what are you talking about? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, just a little, just a little thing I said.

But if we want to meet up at the Gilgo Beach murderers, let's let's I'll meet you.

Let's say that's the point. If we want to meet at the swamp, I'll meet you at the swamp, maybe at the marsh. Maybe I want to see what this community is. I bet I could, I bet I could. I bet I could look one of these guys up and down. And you think you could infiltrate You think you could infiltrate the Oak Beach Association. Yeah, yeah, I think you could. I don't know if they allow Jews.

They kind of seem like a no Jew crew, but maybe it seems like.

A part of the island with no Jews. Yeah, you know, there's not all Jew areas. That sounds like a fucking Jordan Peele movie, Like it's on Long Island, but it's like a sect where they hate Jewish people. Oh my god, love that. Okay, So anyway, just to circle back, that is gilgnews dot com that uh they leads, tips, lots of information, timeline of events, bios about the victims, lots of stuff is up there if you're interested in more

I don't think I've ever fully interrupted on what would Sister peg Do and go on a five minute tangent?

So thanks for that. Oh I loved it.

It was perfect.

You seem exhausted. Oh no, it's great. Next week, please join us in watching Zero Tolerance Season twenty, episode three. We love you guys, Hulu Peacock, you know the goods. See you next week. Bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, and on Twitter at messed Up pod and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer Annalise Nelson and to our mixer John Bradley, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Dun Dun