Damaged w/ Ari Graynor

Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done.

Welcome to episode two of That's Messed Up an SPU Podcasts.

We're so excited to be here.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. A happy, enjoyous honkah to you, Lisa.

Thank you so much. Potato pancakes all day, every day, so delicious.

Did you get any presents every night? Did Hanakah Harry visit you? Did you put any blue lights on your home?

I don't know.

My Pentecostal husband hasn't really picked up on the honka traditions yet.

I know my father puts a blue lit manora on our window, so just in case people didn't know we were Jewish, they know now.

Oh my gosh, it's episode two. We're back. We've had so much fun like tweeting and instagramming and going through all the fun and stuff that everyone is sharing in all their opinions. Thank you for your positive feedback everybody, and we've gotten a lot of questions. In love about our cover art slash logo, which we understand because it's incredible and it's Carly Jean Andrews.

And her Instagram's incredible. And I actually found her through Instagram because this summer during quarantine, she was making like people would send her nudes and then she would make paper doll outfits on top of them. And I'd never met this woman in my life, and I was like, hey, can I send you nudes?

And then I sent her fifteen nudes.

I had a two hour photo shoot alone in my home, and so.

She knows me very intimately. Yeah, her Instagram is awesome.

Everybody should go and follow Carly Jean Andrews and order her prints and stuff. She's really such a fantastic artist and we were so lucky.

Or you can hack her and you know, if you'd like to see me doing ice ice skating poses in the nude, she probably has them on her phone. I'm also care I don't know if you've been experiencing this, but like, I've become more investigative since we've started working on this podcast, and I'm scared what's gonna happen to me? Like I saw a glove on a branch I'm like, who's glove is this? We need to find it, and I'm very.

Near like picking it up with a stick to not break chain of custody.

I've got suspicious, Like my sister.

I was walking my sister's dog and it stared at a man and I'm like, he is a fucking murderer. There's a mirror that goes into his stairs and there's someone trapped, and my niece was like, I think it's just a man. I don't know why, but yeah, I'm like, I'm nervous for what's going to happen to my personality.

Oh man, yeah, I guess. No, you obviously have not experienced this, and you're you're your silence.

No, no, I will. I have definitely been on after a marathon. I think you've been binging a little bit lately, right, you've been catching up? You've been on season like twenty twenty one or something.

Yes, So, like, I have to be honest with everyone. After the or man up episodes in season twenty, it was just too much for me and with where the world was, and I did take a break. And obviously I always watched the old ones over and over, but I didn't watch twenty twenty one, and I've been watching them right now and I'm having a lot of problems because I'm in love with Caresy.

She's literally texting me trying to act like Corisy is hotter than Maloney, and I can't.

I don't even know what. I don't know how to react. Well, I don't want anyone to know that.

Well, we'll we just talked about it, because I think people will hate me. I think this, Yeah, I think it's a controversial stance. I don't know why I'm so obsessed with Caresy, but I love that he loves Rolins even you know.

That's one thing that you said because you're not a huge Rollins fan, and you said that his love of Rollins is making you like Rollins more so.

I think he's doing a service he is.

I just feel like he's like the feminist we really that's what Maloney was missing. Maloney was always like abortions are wrong, and I think Caresi has this like special sweetness where he's like, she can get an abortion, you know, And I like, yeah.

Well, we found out a couple of weeks ago on Instagram that in the new year we're going to be getting the return of Maloney, which is huge, and I was just like looking even him older, you know, a little bit more weathered in the face. I'm just a thousand times hornier for Maloney than I ever will be for Dominick Caresi.

But I will regret it. I will regret it.

And I do think that him constantly bringing Connoli is his mom made is a little overkill where we get it your Italian, but he's always just bringing a wedding soup to the plast accent.

I feel like that.

It's like he's a cornball. But I like him. I just don't want to like and I did time.

I did Google just like photos of him in his regular life and he seems to really love his wife, but so does.

You know, so does Maloney.

Yeah, yeah, I do love a man that's not gonna cheat on his wife, but not that I know anything. Also, we have been doing a lot of different shows together to like promote this podcast, and we did our friend Michelle Collins radio show, and she's obsessed with Peter Herman. And Peter Herman, for those of you who don't know,

I told her, I think Peter Herman is so so hot, and she goes, oh, I call him sexy Frankenstein.

Which we love.

So from now on we will we will be referring to him as Sexy Frankenstein, but we mean that in the only the most boner inducing ways, like I think he's so so hot.

Yeah, I'll buy any laundry detergent beads that he wants to sell.

He is not in this episode, but.

You know who is, my man, Christopher Maloney. He's also gonnaill my man. I just ca okay, okay. So we're gonna get into the episode. You're gonna get some heaping dose of Christopher Maloney. But we just wanted to remind you, since this is the second episode, what the show is. Obviously, we recap episodes of Law and Order SVU, and then we're going to get into the true crime that the

And as we know in the sv world, are the best episodes are usually the most messed up. So this is the best and messed up, and we have one of the best guests, best actors.

That have ever been on this show, according to me, So.

Stay with us, all right, Lisa, are you ready to talk about.

Your favorite episode? Yeah, of Law and Order SVU. Yeah, I'm thrilled. This is my favorite. I mean, so many haunt me, but this, you know, Ari Grainer is in it, so I don't.

Want to step on your position. But there's a monologue at the end that chilled chills up and down my spine here on my head, Like I just remember watching this as it came out. This is an early season being like, you are the best actress I've ever seen in my life.

How are you doing this at such young age?

This is the most twisted crime, the most shocking stuff, the saddest ending, the craziest trauma, the family. I mean, it is multi layered, and you know, a lot of the times the beginning doesn't match the end.

This it's like, I don't know, I love it. The cops play tricks on the bull. I mean, yeah, it's it's truly great, I can't wait. Thank you for agreeing to do this one.

No, this is an awesome episode and unfortunately, how bad I've been talking about how everything is. It is based on a trip.

Unfortunately, it is based on bad, bad, bad crimes. But yeah, this episode is called Damage. It's from season four, episode eleven, so you know they're really hitting their stride. The episode starts out with like, hits the ground running a couple is like, a guy's breaking up with his girlfriend outside of a video store and just gets shot dead in the middle of the street. Yeah, and she has a really bad hat on.

I'd like you ad Yeah, and she seems annoying. She seems annoying. He's like, bitch, I told you, she seems annoying.

Does she deserve to watch your boyfriend die in front of her in a split second as he's breaking up with her?

I don't think so, but it is a bad hat.

In the video store, a teenage girls crouched over a six year old girl who's been shot. And then there's also a dead guy with a mask on the ground.

And then there's.

A hysterical video clerk holding a gun.

And he has an emo band from the two thousands haircut like a my chemical romance, like dirty man type.

Look, Liza always has the hair reviews. Detective Dowthorn, I believe is how you say it? Played by Eric Palladino. He's kind of in and out guy. He's like a regular detective who's not an SPU detective.

So yeah, I call him a bad Yeah yeah, like a Guido.

Can you say Guido? I think Kenny Guido's okay, so because I think people like love being Guido's anyway. Uh, he shows up because it's just a regular crime right now. The six year old is en route to the hospital. Her name is Rebecca. The older sister is Missy played by Ari Greener.

Uh.

The kid who is dead on the ground who was trying to rob the video stores named Eric Campbell, and then Joey Field is the name of the clerk who is the one that killed Eric. The squad gets word that Rebecca, the six year old girl, is on life support at the hospital and has gone a rhea.

And I want to add that.

He doesn't say, oh, we'll contact the hot shot cop doesn't say, oh, we'll contact SVU.

I know, Benson. He goes get the sex police over.

Here, yeah, he says, he says, leave it to the sex police. And it's like the way that other cops make fun of SVU all the time is like literally proof that a sex crimes.

Unit is needed, because like you don't.

Even listen to people when they have prop like sex crimes committed against them. You're, yeah, should be a separate unit for this, there is, and you should respect them.

It's really funny.

But anyway, Uh, there's just a lot of like, you know what, Kitty the kitty rape police, so here, Like there's just always little jokes about them being the sex police.

And what is shocking about the sex police being called is you're looking at the crime and you're like, but what is why?

Yeah, it was just some shootings, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what is happening? What is it? And I never thought you will never believe it.

I did not think I would ever type the word gonorrhea so many times as I did watching this episode. I know how to spell it, and I will always know how I will win into spelling be of sexual transmitted infections. Okay, so Missy, the teenage sister of the victim, is crying freaking out.

She's like, uh, she.

Tells them about how she was adopted at twelve by the Kurtz family, but Rebecca, the six year old, is their biological child.

She's like, they're going to kill me. And that's what I learned from Sex and the City once.

Sometimes family is adopt then later when they're not trying, they do get pregnant.

One of my best friends. That happened in her family.

And Ari Granner. I should mention this is only the second thing she's ever done. She's been in a few episodes of The Sopranos and then this. So she's a wonder kid.

Let's see.

Yeah, she's like nine eighteen or something. She's very good, and the squad suspects the dad. Obviously, that's the first person that they suspect when like a little kid has a sexual uh you know, gone rhea And it's Dan Lauria from The Wonder Years.

I don't know if you did you ever watch that show? I did, but I was so you know, I remember the Pimple episodes.

Yeah, like that he like is so he's very good in this episode, but he makes me really like like he was such a mean dad in the Wonder Years that I'm always like about him, and he's in another episode of SVU where he plays a coach who I think is bad, but we'll probably talk about that episode.

So yeah, and then the cops are asking all these questions like what does your dad do?

Does he rape your sister?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah.

They also there's an expository question where they're like, your daddy's little angel too, right, which I like.

And then we get to Missy's trauma.

Right, so they are talking about how Rebecca's daddy's at a angel.

Just that term is gross.

I hate that means I hate daddy's girl, I hate daddy's attle angel, I hate all the daddy stuff.

You can just throw it away.

But Missy was adopted her biological father, like severely molested and assaulted her from the age of five to the age of twelve when she was taken into foster custody and then adopted by this family. So you'd think, oh, what a great turnaround, But she obviously doesn't think of herself as a daddy's little girl because of her traumatic

Yeah, dads really don't like to be accused of raping their children.

Yeah.

I also just want to point out that this is season four. This is after Benson has cut her hair into that super little spiky cup, but she's let it grow out and now it's got like this smooth wind swept justin Bieber quality too.

Any I wrote short swoop boy band realness.

Yeah, it's cute. It looks good on her, like you have to be. I just want to pull off that haircut.

We both went. We both described her the same swoops boy band type. I think there's a reason we're friends.

Bieber didn't have a band, but yeah, the dad definitely is like us whole.

Yeah, and she's like, her hair does look good, but she is asking a man to take a gun a reattest. So it turns out Missy has filed a complain against her adopted dad five years earlier, but she was actually just mistaking regular affection for sexual advances, and they kind of we get more information about how like Missy's dad like beat her, raped her, pimped her out to her to his friends, like he was.

Is not a good man.

Yeah, like raping your kid is bad enough, and then like pimping your kid up. No, it's like money, honestly unconscionable. It's like you can't even think that there's people like that in the world, but there are, and that the social worker is like I wish all my families were like the Kurtz family, like to get like to adopt a twelve year old girl too, who's been through a lot of traumas, Like that's you know, that's a big undertaking and it seems like they're this great family to her.

This is so they go to the school and this is an SVU trope like the Bartenders, you know, where it's like the principal knows.

Details of the kid.

I never met my principal and my principles like what a lovely girl. I'd be like, I've never I've never talked to you, mister Bozil.

Okay, well, I knew my elementary school tea principal. His name was doctor T. And I think if I was pissing myself and grade a bunch. Maybe he'd know about that.

But the thing is it wasn't a bunch. She only pissed herself twice. So they didn't realize, Oh, this is like a sign of sexual abuse. Oh that is a sign of sexual abuse.

I thought I didn't realize they said two times. Yeah, she only pet her pants twice, And it's like, you're in the no nor pants. I just am like, it's like, how the attention you get at a New York City private school?

Yeah, your principal knows every time you bet your pants. But we find out that they did take her to the doctor because she was wedding her bed at home too. Yes, yeah, so they took her to a doctor for that. Great parents, yes, yeah, everything points to them being good parents. But now they want to pull the plug on Rebecca because she's brain dead and they want to give her organs to a

I have two comments. Yes, of course it's their sexual abuse. What do you need a kit for? The girl has gone rhea? We know, yeah, Two.

Why do we need to waste time at a judge to get a thing? Do the test? Give the organs?

Like this storyline enrages me, where I'm like, why is it so much trauma for this family?

They're basically I just don't understand.

They want to do another good thing, another proof that they're a good family. They want to donate her organs. And the police are saying, no kid and Philly must die.

We need to do a rape kit, but we won't do the rape quit kit fast. We'll go to court first. What well, that's what I was saying, like, can't both happen?

Can't they just do it quickly and then go I don't understand why they even in corporate.

This is torture porn.

This is this is like I think me watching this episode started my life of like like.

This is torture porn.

So so the judge sides with the with the with Cabin one of my favorite das of all time. The judge sides with Cabin and says that they cannot pull the plug on Rebecca. They need to wait until this examination happens, and then Stabler and Benson ask if the entire family can attest it for gonerehea. So it turns out that Rebecca dies, and but the liver gets to the boy in Philly right on time, and she also did have the exam and it shows that she was repeatedly assaulted, which is I'm sorry, I wish.

I mean, there's a lot of trigger warnings in here. It sucks to talk about that. That it's what happens in the episode. I'm glad the boy got the liver. Yeah, the boy gets the liver.

So that's Yatally, there's a trope that I always love because you know, Benson and the Stable are different answers, but I love when parents go do you have children, Detective, and so we get one of them and then.

Like Benson gets this like ashamed look on her face, and it's like, it's okay, like that you don't have a kid like that, you could still imagine.

It's sad that your daughter was repeatedly raped, Yeah, gonorrhea. And then yeah, like I can't imagine it. I don't need to have a given birth.

And then Stabler, of course the horse, the White Horse and Shining dad armors like, I got four kids, I.

Love them all. So the dogs' emotional yeah, so yes, emotional. We go.

Now we see the doctor who was treating Rebecca's bed wedding and he reveals that Missy has gone rihea.

This is like their pediatrician.

So and at first the pediatrician, you know, like most doctors, doesn't want to give the goods tap because of their Hippocratic oath or whatever.

Well, Hippa also are the laws of privacy, and you're not allowed to tell things about people, but they broke it. I love the Hippocratic oath is the first do no harm, but it's also first, don't gossip with cops about whether kids have gone a rhea.

So, uh, the this is terrible news. As of Watcher, you realize, yeah, the two girls have gone real both of these girls have gone riha.

So Missy breaks down and says that she and Rebecca.

Were both raped by Joe, who is the clerk at the video store. We thought he was like a character that.

Was gone at the beginning. He's back.

He's apparently Missy's boyfriend, and he raped Missy and Rebecca as well. He made Missy bring Rebecca to the store when she threatened to tell on him. Missy said Joey Field and Eric Campbell, who was the shooter, that they're friends, they plan this whole thing together, or that really Joey was the mastermind.

And they say Joey comes.

From deep pockets, like his dad is a big lawyer and his family's like in with the mayor.

I'm like, why are you working at a video store, you know, to learn personality?

Yes?

I mean I feel like a lot of those kind of kids end up like clerking or putting away files at a law firm. Like they don't end up. I didn't even have a video store, so interesting. I did a video store where the owner keeps a loaded gun. It just seems a little bit of a low brow job for this high powered kid. This kid that's from a high powered family. They live on Park Avenue. You just don't see a lot of kids working at video store. Yeah, mostly video stores do not exist anyhore.

Okay, because you always hear of a rich kid having to get a for to learn a lesson yeah something, but yes, not this sure, that's it's I think the job's a little bit far fish.

But okay, So they go to visit Eric the house of Eric, the kid who was shot as the robber in the video store event.

One of the worst dads.

Oh my god, they go, he's in a bottle in the East Village and this guy's just like a drunk calling his dead son a loser.

He's like, you want to go to his room? Go ahead? Like he's horrible.

He goes, my son's a bigger loser than I even thought. And it's like, you're You're the biggest loser I've ever seen. He has, you know, the bald hair up top with the hair around the circles.

Yeah, yeah, the bozo the clon actually looks like I guess who character on that game board?

Yeah, it'd be like does he have swollen burst capilaries? So they he also when people are this poor and gross, I'm like, how do you live in New York? Why are you in New York in the East Village?

Wow?

And your son has his own room. So Eric has a bunch of quote unquote fancy electronics. But this episode did come out in two thousand and three, so it's like a massive stereo a box TV like nothing that would look nice now, but is kind of strange for like a kid to have they figure out that Eric was three feet away when he shot Rebecca through forensics.

So that's the thing with these teen any killer it's like, even though cops are dumb, detectives are not. And to think you are going to out smart detectives with your tails is just such arrogance.

And yeah, especially for in the world of forensics and stuff.

Yeah, where they were easily like he would have to point down because he's tall to hit the kid.

Yeah, it was a close range. It's like yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it was like so basically we're getting the picture that this isn't this was like an intentional killing, whereas they tried to make it seem like, oh, in this robbery, the gun like being like ricochet and like hit her whatever. So Ben's in a stabler go to Joey's apartment and tell him that he's gonna win an award from the day Apartments Townhouse Townhouse.

Excuse me, I misspoke. This is one of my favorite moments. And they say they're like, hey man, they're gonna give you a like a courage award from the Mayor's office.

Why don't you step outside? So when he steps outside, they arrest him.

And I didn't realize that.

You don't need an arrest warrant if someone's on the street, but if they're in the house, you need an arrest warrant.

Yeah.

And you hear the dad lawyer in the back being like, Joey, don't go outside, but it's too.

Late because the lawyer Dad knows. And I learned this from this episode. Yeah, to me, we learn a lot. I will never step outside. If it comes to my door.

You don't have to open the door. I don't think even without a warrant.

Uh.

Okay, So we figure out that Joey's dad is this big attorney he said.

Joey says he has no idea. He had no idea Eric was going to do any of this.

It's all kind of Eric on Eric's thing. Joey gets arraigned and remanded without bail. We get Judith light Baby.

Judge gets charged with first degree murder and two counts of rape in the first degree. Three charges.

Yeah. Yeah, so this is not going to be an easy case to get out of. And everyone's throwing around the death penalty a lot, which I didn't I don't even think is in New York.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Judith Light shows up as judge slash Bureau Chief Elizabeth Donnelly. She was on twenty five episodes of SVU from two thousand and two to twenty ten. I would consider her a main Yeah, she's cannon for sure, a huge part. Missy wants immunity. Her lawyer is played by a This is a classic episode because there's a lot of classic people in it. This classic SVU defense attorney named Roger Kressler, who was kind of like a sleezed ball that's.

Like, my client doesn't know anything about that.

You know.

He has the haircut, the ball in the hair, but black. He looks like he would.

Do your taxes.

Yes, he's played by a guy named Ned Eisenberger and he's been on twenty four episodes.

Yeah, I mean it gets better and better, yeah every moment.

Yeah.

So Joey's dad is basically trying to like bury all these motions.

Uh.

And then the episode flips when Craigan walks in with a VHS like a well, haunting haunting.

But I do want to reiterate, and you did say this that Missy got a deal, so she is immune from being charged because she gave the scoop on Joey and Eric, So I just need everyone to know she has immunity.

Yes, she has immunity.

Cragan walks in with this VHS tape and it's Missy and Joey, and it's Missy basically coercing Joey through like the promise of sex to molest her little sister who's lying pasted out on the bed.

It's a very gross syne. She drugs her sister.

She gave her sister syphilis, and she maria, I don't know how to spell syphilis. I know how to spell gonorrhea.

Why did I say syphilis?

I don't know.

They're both a stud and fucking You see on the tape, Joey's like, no, no, no, I don't want to rape her.

Some and she likes suggest She's like, you better do it if you want more of this, and it's like it's really disturbing.

And they go over to the daughter. Oh yeah.

So basically we now know that Missy has been masterminding this entire thing if she lied about being raped, Like who really planned these murders? Is what Olivia brings up, And that's the crux of the episode pretty much.

I just can't believe I love this episode so much. Something is wrong with my head. I have to bring it up in therapy.

My favorite episodes are the most traumatic. That's really it's terrifying.

Uh.

Now, Joey is being like a love struck teenage idiot, like he doesn't believe anything.

They're like, Missy's giving you up, Missy's pinning the whole thing on you. He's like, nah, you're lying.

Even thinks his dad is lying to him, Like he why.

Romeo and Juliet should not be taught in school.

Oh yeah, people think you're supposed to die for your high school partner or something.

And it's like yeah, because they were like thirteen and fifteen. Nah.

So he is willing to take the needle for this girl because the sex is so bomb.

Yeah, and he he don't want to cut that out. No, No, he says that.

He's like he's like Eric introduced me to Missy and it was like being on a drug to be with her, Like she's intoxicating. But I think a lot of people will find that about like a narcissist personality that like they can have like an intoxicating.

Personality to be around. Yeah, I think we both know people like that.

So there was one time they mostly drugged her when they molested her, but one time she woke up Rebecca, she said she was going to tell So Missy paid Eric and Joey told him what to do because Eric would do anything for money. So it's like, hey, just come in and pretend to rob this store. So we're going to shoot the sister. And I don't think Eric thought he was going to get shot in the robbery. Do you think they knew they were going to kill Eric?

Hmmm?

I don't know, Like was that something gone wrong? I don't know, because I wonder like, would you agree to get shot dead for some stereo?

Well, no, I don't think you would have done that. Yeah.

I think maybe it was like, oh, we're going to shoulder wound you and then you run away, like you know, these kids all think they're sharp shooters.

I don't know.

So Missy planned this entire robbery. Now she has immunity. She's completely played this entire like and I got everybody so cad.

Now knowing that she did that. The acting of these killer kids is insane, like crying about your sister up top, Like I don't understand how all these murderers are also amazing actors. Yeah, yeah, she she was sad about her sister.

I think sometimes you chat, you channel the sadness of you losing your freedom.

You know, you're like, I better fucking tap dancer. I'm going to be in jail. So you're like, no, you know, yeah.

But so Cabot wants to help get Missy's immunity reverse but that's actually not really within the scope of what she should be doing. So she basically goes to Joey's father, the lawyer, and kind of they hatch a plan to get this immunity reversed. So we're in Petrovski's courtroom aka Joanna Merlin forty three episodes.

Petrovski's an iconic judge. Yeah. Are they all do it?

Because everything I'm like, yeah, Bubby, it's like a bubby to me. You know, she would be a passover dinner. She you know, should try and be like did you try the gaffil to fish?

Yeah?

Like I fuck am? I love her so and the.

Side I want to add the data is really sad. He's like, my son won't even let me.

Safe, right, So they're trying to get Petrovski to overturn this immunity. They're saying this evidence of the VHS tape showed up after immunity was imposed. And then Joey's father's response is they can't put Missy on the stand without supporting perjury now that they've seen this video, which eliminates.

Joey's right to confront who accuser. So Petrofski revokes.

The immunity, which I think is very rarely done, and it's kind of a ball or move from them that they got it done.

But the judge and lawyer, of course are pissed or like you guys are canoodling together. They're hatching up plans the defense and Brock years together. Legal canoodling, yes, for sure. And Petrovsky's very pisted at Cabot. They always have like fun scenes together.

But Petrovsky loves Cabot deep down because later when Petrovsky, when Cabot gets quote unquote murdered but really goes into witness protection, Petrovsky's very hard on the criminals she thinks did it. So she's pissed a Cabot. She wants the trial to happen a s A p even though Cabot is I'm not ready. So yeah, the parents show up at SVU. Now they get shown the table.

Well, what's my favorite is they're pissed that the trust. They're pissed about something, the parents and they run into the squad room.

And they're like, we can't show you. They're like show us, and the mom my favorite goes what can be harder? And it can't be worse and what we're going through basically, and it's like, yeah, no, that's what's crazy. It's like your kid is dead or use your imagination. A lot of things can be worse.

But so this is this is where I've mentioned this before where SVU has a humor where before the worst thing ever happens, there's always a funny joke, and this is the joke where it's like this mom is in hysterics.

What could be worse? And it's like the squad will give it to you, baby, Right, So we're winding up.

The episode's kind of winding up now as we kind of realize that Missy is this sort of sociopathic mastermind. Joey admits that Missy paid Eric one thousand dollars to shoot at Rebecca, so we're trying to find out where she got that money. Dan Lauria and the adoptive parents are like, we're not going to help you take away our other daughter. And Missy's like, Joey will never testify against me, like she knows that she has this the

We get Ahong moment where he.

Meets up with Missy, tells the whole story about how her mom died when she was five, her dad molested her, and that the Kurts has only kept her out of pity and she has a flat affect. Huang says later tells everyone she has a flat affect and no capacity for empathy.

She's like a classic sociopath.

And one of my favorite lines in that little interview that really stuck with me is Cabots like, but Joey loves you.

He was going to take the death penalty for you, and she goes, but he didn't, did he?

Yeah he was in it for himself. Yeah yeah, where And that he's never had love.

Yeah, that's yeah.

And so they talk about how her early childhood was so severely traumatic that even by twelve, when she was adopted into this lovely family, it was too late.

Yeah, Like she.

Needed hardcore therapy NonStop, and it doesn't seem like she got it.

Yeah, and that she knows what she's doing is wrong, she just does not care. So they track down this pawn shop ticket and figure out this like three thousand dollars like pavet diamond Lockett necklace that's engraved that the parents gave Missy as a gift is what she gave to Eric.

To Pond for the money.

Yeah, And then Munch is like knows about all the jewelry lingo and I love ponn shop guy goes, look at you a connoisseur.

There's so many good pawn shop guys in the show. Yeah.

Actually, the ring I'm wearing today I got at a pawn shop in London. I paid cash.

So then missy Uh is like talking to Cabot about how you know she's not good. She could get the death penalty and she's like, you can't kill me. I'm already dead.

And when she sees the necklace hanging like holding she the anger on her face is like she's pissed, she's got got and she's done.

But the so the episode ends, Yeah, I think you think it's gonna end just like I'm usually you fade to dick wolf.

On I'm already dead like a line like that. You think, but supposed there it feel sad, Yeah, scared, I don't.

I mean, yeah, it's like a really it's a really good time. Because you said she was a team monologue.

She does look little like she looks like she's fourteen fifteen in this show.

Yeah, she's twenty nineteen or twenty.

So to me, like while watching it, thinking she's a teen, I'm watching these horrific cold and she does this murderous lean in. Yeah, it's like, I mean, the lighting in this show, everything is.

It's so good.

So then the episode kind of ends with the dad trying to ask Cabot to like spare her a little bit, like to take the death penalty off the table, and he's like, can't you see how damaged Missy is? And you don't always hear the title of the episode just so succinctly put in there, but and Cabot's just kind of like.

No, I gotta follow the law, which bothers me because Cabot breaks the law all the time. This reminds me of you don't even watch Below Deck, but it's like it's maritime lots, merritime lots, like you break the rules constantly, Cabot, can you just not kill this team?

Like, I don't understand why she kind of like that.

Jury would ever give us somebody with such a traumatic pass the death penalty like that though, I really don't Okay, all right, well.

That and then so with this, dad gonna visit her in jail, Like that's what I don't under I don't know.

Well, this was one of our favorite episodes, so our recap was extensive.

But yeah, hopefully feel depressed. Yeah, get ready to hear about how this happened in real life. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Let's dive in.

So this case, is there some sister and sister rape murder? There is, But so I'll just warn you up top, this is pretty fucked.

But what why this case? So first, this case.

Is Canadian, so that's you know, we think Canada is so nice and nothing happens there and so these are probably the most famous killers in Canada. Canada's pretty embarrassed about it. And then I don't know because the case is so fucked up. But I think the reason it's so popular is because they're hot.

They were called the Ken and Barbie Killers, and I think the the bar for hotness and killers is low, because you know they're fine.

There are for hotness in Canada as low. And I'm just kidding. No, Drake looks.

Yeah, so you know, blonde, they're blondes, they're and love, they're young, and so everyone was shocked at these canon Barbie killers and that's what they're called if you want to google.

Yah and one of their real names.

So their real names are Carla Hamalka and Paul Bernardo.

I don't remember what he looks like specifically, but I remember I've seen Carla Hamolka like in when I've looked up this crime before, and she's very like, yeah, eighties Barbie like big eighties hair like she looks like your eighties dream girl.

Yeah, And I'll just mention this up top if that name does sound familiar to you.

This past year, Don't Fuck With.

Cats came out on Netflix, Yes, which was a popular true crimey type docuseries about Luke Magnata Luca Magnata and basically he puts up videos on the internet of killing cats. He ends up killing a man and then these two dorks from the internet that deserve their own show loved them. They get this online community to help find this guy. And he was connected with Hamalka because he said that he dated her, but it's not true.

He just loved Well.

Then he came in a videos where he's like, Carla and I are not an item, and it was.

Like nobody said you were. Like he would create stories about himself.

And then refute them and like give interviews as if he was important, like he was TMZ or something.

Yeah, and he also so one of the people he killed he chopped up into different pieces and he sent some of the body to an address for Lauri Haimalka, like Carla's other sister.

That's a lie.

So if you are like, oh, I've heard these names recently, they were part of that.

And so this guy was I think it makes sense when you're saying about that this is like one of Canada's most famous crimes, because this guy wanted to be infamous. This Luca Magnata guy and so he's like, how can I be infamous? It's like trying to link yourself to Ted Bundy, you know what I mean. Like you just are like if I can somehow get involved with like get my name linked to her, everyone know who I am, you know.

Yeah, And so that's just you know, this is a crime that keeps on giving and so connected to this and it is fucked up people.

Yeah, he like vacuum sealed cats.

It was yeah, no that, but that's a recommendation if you're in two did you watch it?

Oh yeah you did watch Oh I watched work with the Cats. No, but did you watch the cat killing videos?

Well? Only what they showed on there?

Okay, because you know that he called it like two cats, one one killer or something like he kind.

Of fucked with the poop video. Yeah, all right, so let's see where this starts. Okay. So Carla.

Basically, well this is really funny. The cops are like, this was a match made in hell, not heaven. So I love a cop with a saying all right, Basically, she was young.

She was like a teen when she started dating him, So she was like later teen, like seventeen something, and he was in his twenties, so that's, you know, a little weird. But she brought he was six years older than her, and she was popular and pretty. But she just thought he was the fucking Beasneyes and would do anything for him. She bragged about him all the time, talked about him like she was devoted to this man,

I think it's a peeping tommy when you're a teen. Oh is it?

No, No, it's not.

I'm so they're dating and there is a Scarsborough rapist that's out. So the whole town is scared and everyone is in fear of getting raped and attacked from behind. All these women are getting attacked and raped. And they said, light.

Hair, young, and just the knowledge of a rapist rapists being around is terrorizing this town. In Canada, he made women call themselves degrading names. He brutalized people on the verge of homicide, and so the attacks were getting more and more violent, and we escalated, and we learned that in SVU, and you know, people get more comfortable. You can tell if it's someone's first crime or they're an experienced killer. And so they were scared that this was

I mean, have I said the town name wrong every single time? Probably?

I've said it different every time. So there were already three rape attacks before before they started dating. The sketches released and it looks just like him. He starts getting called from everywhere being like, bro, are you the Scarborough rapist? You know, like I just didn't apt out of a phone.

If anyone wants to know that, I am committed to this podcast. But yeah, so everyone's like, uh, our friend is a rapist. We think he looks exactly like this drawing that's been released. And the cops said that they've never heard of men turning their friends in for rape. Usually they defend I said that, never mind, I thought the cops those my noteses didn't say that.

I was shocked that boys are turning in their friends.

Usually boys like have their friend's backs and don't turn them in and defend black.

Yeah, it's weird. This guy that looks like you is doing all these crimes.

That, yeah, I can't believe it. So so whatever. So the Scarborough rapist things happened. So he moves to Saint Catherine to live with her parents. So suddenly the Scarborough attacks stop, and in Saint Catherine.

The talks start.

Oh wow, and no one suspects the thing that no one thinks, no one cares, no one, but legit. They stop in one town, start in another, all based on his movements.

Uh huh.

Now Christmas rolls around and he asks her to have sex with her sister, which is rape. Obviously she's underage. Tammy is fifteen at the time, and I wrote she's a virgo, which is where vogue virgos.

She's not.

I just looked up.

It says Tammy was a virgo and Paul wanted a fuck a virgin.

It is virgin, because why would I write virgo? It just auto correction.

It did because the next one he was a virgo and Paul wanted a fuck a virgin.

Okay.

Tammy was a virgin and Paul wanted a fuck a virgin, and she agrees. She just loves Paul so fucking much that she agrees to drug her sister and let her my fucking my notes changed Beyonce to finance. I mean, I need a this is nuts, okay, But she lets Paul drug and rape her sister. They used animal tranquilizer that they stole from.

A vet clinic. Jesus, and they videotaped the whole thing.

So while the family is all sleeping on Christmas, they are drugging and raping one of the daughters.

I mean, it.

Is so fucked up. And then he orders Carla to assault the sister. So this is a little different from us to you. She's the yeah h he makes her do it, and so they both rape Tammy. Tammy begins to vomit and choke, and they dress her and hide the camera. They call nine one one and they act shocked and everything they said. They try to revive her but couldn't, and Christmas Eve she was dead.

Nobody taught the sister she.

Was actually fourteen and her birthday was like on New Year's Day. Wow, a few days later she would have turned fifteen. She never made it, shees, nobody thought the sister did it. They did find a burn mark on her face, but she's but they also said she died of natural causes.

So this is like pretty bad police work. But they said that it was a the Carla and Paul said the burn mark on her face was from rugburn from trying to revive her, and so they just took it at face value. Drugs, drinking, it's the holidays, totally normal, and.

She was just taking veterinary tranquilizers for fun. Well, my ketamine is right, people take ketamine for fun, and this is a horse tranquilizer.

Yeah, I guess, but maybe they didn't even do the the test yet. But also I don't think the cops brains went to Oh of course they drugged and raped your mind to go. Yeah, so that's a great thing.

Yeah, Okay, so I know one thought that did Carla and Paul move into their own home and poor de Lucy And I'm saying that correctly because I spelled it phonetically. No, so they moved to Port de Lucy and his aggression actually starts to turn onto Carla and that's the thing with narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, anything.

You you think.

That they're going to treat you different or that you're special, and it's not like they're eventually going to treat you like they treat everybody else.

And so that's just something.

If your friends with someone that you think you can change, you're not gonna So he he lets her know that he's this rapist and that he's the Scarborough rapist and.

He's been all this time and now he just finally tells her this, yeah, okay.

And then starts abusing her, and she doesn't want to leave him and fear that he will tell her parents that she killed her sister, which I think is a fair fear to have. And then he did give DNA two months earlier, but it wasn't tested yet because DNA is just like not the same as it is now as parts of using So they decide to get married, and as a wedding present, he brings Carla a young

You know, teens love a cigarette. Yeah, I don't.

I would have, you know, because people are like candy or puppies and like, I wouldn't betray me.

If you had been like, hey, i've got a Parliament light, I would have been like, where are coming?

Yeah?

So unfortunately that sucks. So June ninety one, middle of the night, he wakes her up and he's like, guess what, babe, I got a fourteen year old girl here, and together they hold her captive in their home and assaulting her, recording this all on video.

They strangle her, cut up. This is intense.

They strangle her, cut up her body in case, the pieces in concrete blocks and drop them in the water. And this is two weeks before their wedding. Jesus, I've never even heard of all the movies, all the shows, all the true crime.

It's like what the Mob used to do was put people in concrete.

I thought it was full bodies though, I've just never but that wouldn't make sense.

Yeah, I don't know. It depends on what kind of cement access you have, I guess. Yeah, and the mob does, aren't they like all construction? Everyone?

Yeah, sleeping with the fish Oh, there's a funny Simpsons a fish called so I'm sorry.

No, they say sleeping with the fishes.

They think someone's dead, but actually Troy McLure focks fish and it's like funny if anyone wants like an appetite, not an app and a palette cleanser. After we find out about the Yeah, I mean, the thing is they're like a young hawk, like who knows how to cut people up.

And put them in concrete blocks. It's just like so fucked up. They find the body of Leslie the day of the wedding in the concrete blocks. How I don't know they find it. So it's fucking gruesome.

It's you know, it's heinous as fuck, and there's a veil of fear in Ontario. People are scared, but you know, these people are dancing the horror at this wedding.

So they bring this FBI guy to help. They need the FBI.

And I was really confused about this, Like I didn't realize FBI people because I know, like through Dexter, I learned like you can FBI people go help police stations and you.

Can him it in Canada.

Yeah, I think it's wild that they don't have their own FBI. But maybe we just have more crimes here. I have no idea, but they brought someone from the FBI to help the case because it was like, so I brought like is it under the table? Is it consulting? I didn't know about their friends, so whatever. So Carla starts enticing girls like she's now an ant. So he wants virgins and yeah, so they find virgins.

He's obsessed. She becomes like the Gallain Maxwell, yes.

Yeah, yeah, And they want moments and trophy, like they want memento, so they videotape all of it. So they videotape all the attacks. So Kristin French was walking home from school in nineteen ninety two, so this is now. Leslie was in ninety one, this is nineteen ninety two, and Carla asked, will you help with directions? And they had a map. They're very good actors. I think that's what we're learning. Killers really know how to act. And so I wonder how many hall I mean, who knows?

Okay, Meryl Streep is a murderer.

So they have a map out they're like, we need help. They bring her into the car. She's a reported missing ASAP. Witnesses do tell police they saw a girl with two people in a church parking lot in a beij Camaro. There's yeah, God, if you're gonna drive a Camaro, why would you have a to be bage? But the thing is it was the wrong lead of a car, so that bought these two some time. He drove a gold Nissan, not a tan Camaro. So and we learned this from

Yeah, the tips range. They're afraid there's too many.

Yeah, some aren't real, so it's really it's hard to go off of people tips.

But whatever, So they got the call wrong.

Paul and Carla keep her for several days, raping and sodomizing.

Her, and then they strangle her good.

They're fucking lunatics. The body has found April of nineteen ninety two. In nineteen ninety three, Paul beat the shit out of Carla and she had to go to the er and the DNA is finally tested like I don't know from them or what, but they knew it was Paul Bernardo. And the FBI guy said that he didn't figure it out faster, but that he's the Scarsborough rapist

But they were right. He did escalating, It did go to murder, it did get more.

Vicious, and it sucks that they weren't faster in finding well.

DNA would have helped if it was like as commonplace because this is the early nineties, it's just not as big yeah as it is now.

Yeah, So it's less than two years of marriage.

She moves out.

Okay, she thought that she was at the police for domestic violence against her, but they knew she was married to the psycho. So these are the cop games that were used to on SBU. She confesses everything to the family. She gets a lawyer and tells the truth. The truth in quotes, I would say, because she holds the key to putting him away. But she only agrees to testify for a reduced sentence, and a lot of Canadians and a lot of people and people that are interested in

Concurrently, not consecutively. Yeah, they call it the deal of the century, truly, the deal of the century.

And they had to keep it Serve twelve. You think we'll get to it, okay, But so there's no news. There's a news ban, like no one is allowed in. That's a report, like they are keeping this trial so secret. They cannot fuck with this trial.

Shit in the US because everyone's just is too hungry for are there no trial bards.

There are trials that are kept like not secret, but no press is allowed. But I mean I think that they still are like sensationalized in the media either way.

Yeah, they kept this so secret.

This is also before OJ, and I feel like OJ was probably like the big media circus that kind of changed crime reporting forever. I would say, I don't, I can't, but I'm it could also been before Ojan.

I'm just young and I'm not thinking about history. But OJ did really feel like the first kind of public crime that we were let into the yeah detail for DA four or something for years.

So in May ninety five in Toronto, Paul Bernardo trial happens, people line up for.

Blocks to get a seat inside. He pleads not guilty, of course, to nine charges, and the videos were crucial evidence that Carla is raping her sister and assaulting and nobody is forcing her. There wasn't a gunder her head or anything, and the tapes would have changed her sentencing for sure.

Wow yeah, so well.

I okay, and just to play devil's advocate because listen, I.

Know, listen to this, you're gonna love this.

When he was on his own, the women lived, whoa, he just raped them. But when it was with Carla, the women were killed because she probably had like a resentment towards them for like sleeping with her husband, even though it was like this psychosexual.

Game that they were doing. She's the true killer. Yeah, like green, like Gary Greener.

But it is that to me, is like would he have escalated all the way to murder on his own or did he need Carla to complete the murders because without be pre Carla, everyone survived. So it's again it's theory because we'll never know time wise. She says he's the mastermind. And then they played the tapes. You know, the tryal lasts four months. The public can only hear audio but not see them, and the jury did get

I mean, you know, there was a lot of stuff. He was found. The jury only deliberates for eight hours. I believe in that along with tapes. Yeah, I wonder.

You know, there's probably one guy that was like, oh but come on, are you sure?

But those smuts wanted it, Okay, I need to know how much time these people got. Okay. So yeah, the worst deal ever in Canada. Oh what's amazing is there was a six month inquiry into the police work because the cops failed and mishandled the case so badly. There were so many mistakes and it fell through by just like moving from community to community, so they like the cops are unable to work together. And because they just moved, this didn't go anywhere. And this actually made the Canadians

I mean that's like the Golden State killer. Like he was all up and down californ and none of these jurisdictions talk to each other, so he just was getting away with it for so long. She is.

Yeah, so I'm glad that Canada did something about it and created a new system to track people. In two thousand and five, a twenty five year old Carla Is let out of jail after serving twelve years. People didn't think it was long enough obviously, and that she's the true psychopath of the group.

But what are you going to do? In February two thousand and seven, she gave birth to a baby boy.

Oh so this is what always makes me mad when I think like dating and stuff as hard as when I see these psychopaths just like get.

Love and children. Yeah, I don't want a child. Wait, did you say how what Paul happened to Paul?

He was found guilty on all counts and he got life in prison, eligible for pearl and twenty five years.

Wow.

I doubt they're going to give him pearle. So, yeah, life in prison.

I wonder if he I wonder if he tried to ever say oh no it was Carla, Like do you think he.

Ever turned on her? I don't know.

And also, well I saw somewhere like Carla's volunteering at a Montreal school sometimes like she paid her debt and she's out and about and she's raising her son, And I'm like, are you gonna tell your son he's gonna find out?

Is it immoral?

You must not have a sex defender registry in Canada because you wouldn't be allowed to be near children if you were found guilty of like killing a fourteen year old.

Oh yeah, and then with sexual registries, can you have your own kids? Yeah? I mean I can't hire a life.

You have to go to iced attention for that to happen to you in this country. Sorry, I'm getting political.

I don't know. Maybe I should have found more information on what they're up to.

Now, this is what's tard because I was about to say, don't do things to impress your boyfriend, but she could have been the mastermind of a lot of.

The Yeah, we don't know. That's what's really wild.

Yeah, I'm just gonna say, if a man asks to rape your sister on Christmas, say no, that's not the man for you.

Yeah.

So, but you have to think also that it's not like he threw that out her at her Like first thing. They obviously had some kind of like psycho sexual relationship going on where he was probably manipulating her a lot, and she was so in love with him, Like you said, she talked about him all the time, she bragged about him.

So it's like, yeah, he probably.

Kept inching up and inching up, like how much he could push her boundaries until he suggested this thing. It was never like let's kill her. It was like, I want to have sex with your sister, Like won't that be hot?

She's like the same as you. I mean he probably just you know.

And then like maybe that wasn't supposed to be a murder because it sounds like the way she died was more of an accident. But yeah, because she woke up, but even the second not the crimes that followed, so they obviously got a taste for it afterwards.

And I want to give a quick shout out.

I think SVU did a really great job of like somehow making the story even more disgusting and wild when.

You make it younger, it's more traumatic, but also sticking to a lot of these facts and switching it.

And like they they globbed on the baby details and put them in. I think they did a really good job adapting this crime into their show. And now we have a guest and I can't wait.

Yeah, excited to talk to our guests, and we will be back with all that.

It is now time for our guests, and I'm super thrilled. She is the star of this episode and in one of my favorite movies for a good time call.

She starred this year in Hulu series Missus America. You've seen her on showtimes I'm dying up here. She was truly Liza's first request when we decided that we were going to have guests on this podcast. That is not a joke. We also discovered that she and I went to the same college at the same time for a brief amount of time, and we are so so thrilled to have Missy Kurtz herself on the podcast. Please check out our interview with Ari Greener.

You're IMDb your first roll with Sopranos, and then you got this giant partner to you.

Were you like, I'm so good?

Yeah, Yeah, I had been doing listen. I had been hitting the pavement for many years on the local community theater scene in outside of Boston, and then was doing like children's theater there and was like doing all this stuff, and then I did the Sopranos and then I mean, the Law and Order SVU episode was kind of a big deal because I was like, this is a complete rite of passage for every actor in the world, and

I mean, did you watch the show beforehand?

I wasn't today watched the show.

It was only season four, so it's not crazy that you wouldn't like it was. You were on season four, so like it wasn't like at USA marathons all the time status yet you know.

Yeah, like how many seasons are we at now?

They're about to start twenty two that's what's about to Holy shit. Yeah, so you're like, yeah, early days, like I.

Think i'd seen and you know, i'd seen it, but it wasn't like, uh, it was not my I was not recording the show, you know what I mean and watching it when I got home from school kind of deal. But it was still a very thrilling opportunity and it.

Was like a big role. Yeah, it was like a big part.

But when you read the script and realized how insane your character was going to be and how wild, what did you do to prepare and how did you feel when you read that you were like raped and helped kill your sister.

I mean, listen, my memory, full disclosure, my memory is not great, probably because I've been smoking a little bit too much quante, but my uh, I mean I think I just was like, what a fun, what a fun, outrageous thing to do. I didn't totally understand about how

I haven't watched I haven't watched it, Like.

Do you guys watch all the episodes before you have these conversations?

We also seen your episode. Probably it's one of my top favorites.

It's haunting. Come on, no that I'm not a bit I'm not.

I'm not exaggerating to you in one And any way, when we came up with the idea for this podcast, the first thing Lisa said was, oh, my god, do you think we can get Auri Greener for the episode she's in.

I swear to God, because up, what a triumph do.

Because I also love for a good time call. I think it's like the best movie about female friendship. I have a movie sized poster of it, and so I was just so thrilled but that speech at the end that you give that it's so chilling when you're like, you can't kill me, I'm.

Already, I mean it is.

It launts me and you're playing a teen and it's just it's one of the twists.

It's so scary. I don't know. It just haunted me for years now.

I will say, and I don't know what this says about my career, but that episode, in that line in particular, is so is still oft quoted to me.

Oh my gosh.

It really resonated with people. I guess it really hit really hit a nerve.

Yeah, there's so many it's just it's so twisted, and there's so many turns where then there's a restraining order, they can't get to the sister, there's organs and needing to be donated.

It's it's did somebody did she die? Yeah? Or yeah?

Did I kill her?

No?

You?

I mean you, well she died in the shooting that you set up with your boyfriend and your boyfriend's friends, right, and you a necklace.

For money and you paid them and then they he was willing that's another favorite line where he was willing to take the death penalty for you but then and they're like, of course he loved you, he would have done that and you go, but he didn't, and it's that was really a good one too.

Oh wow.

I do remember shooting like there was some scene the scenes that I remember shooting.

I remember shooting that end.

Scene and I remember like being in my jail jumpsuit and Stephanie Marsh being there and thinking she was really pretty and like leaning into the camera for like, you can't kill me, I'm already dead.

And then I remember, and then I remember.

There was like a secret camera footage of me seducing my boyfriend h As played by Chris Denham.

He's such a good actor, and that was kind of the.

First time that i'd ever like gotten to do something kind of sexy, and so I remember that was kind of fun, and I feel like maybe like like like I and I remember like really kissing him like I'd never done a kiss before like that, So I didn't know like the protocol about like using tongue or not, and it's possible that I did.

Just lifted in there to be as real as possible.

I was like this, you have to make this real.

I remember that, and then I remember some scene where I'm crying, like where they come to maybe they come into the house and interview me, and I'm like, you're in the hospital.

You're crying, and att house. She's in a peasant tops.

I have two braids? Is it possible that I had two braids?

Yeah?

Okay?

And I remember that was exciting because that was the first time, like in a nerdy actor way, that I really it was like the first time that I like really really cried doing something, Like I felt like I got into enough where I was like, whoa, this is a feeling when you like really feel the feeling of what's going on.

That was a big deal. It was a big bumm.

There was also a scene at hospital where it's like Richard Bellser and iced tea and then you're there and was do you remember that?

Like that seems so intimidate, Like if I was, I would be so because you're this like young actress. It's only your second credit. You're there with like iced tea and Richard Belzer and you're bawling, and this is when we really believe you that you're like upset about your sister and all this stuff.

Right, I definitely remember that's my dog that's my dog. My dog toutsie, Hey touts It's cool. We're all cool, thanks.

Man. I do remember being like generally intimidated, and I was.

The kind of person on a set, especially like for those first few and by few, I mean like ten years on set where I would be like I don't want to be in anyone's way, Like I don't want to.

Like some people are like, hey, here I am, I'm on set and pain.

By the monitor, and I was always like I never want to step on anyone's toes.

I never wanted to be.

You know.

So I remember being like nervous, but I feel like everyone was really nice. Oh man, I really wish that there was a that I could remember, like me and Richard Bilser we must have talked about something like we must have had like a chit chat. Me nice, But I can't recall it. I should just make up some story about it.

Well, no, because we were also going to ask you about Mariska's highlights if they looked as good in person as on TV. But that seems like a very specific, crazy question after so many years.

Yeah, I mean, I just remember whenever that scene was, she walked in and she was super nice, but.

Was also like, okay, guys, let's let's do it.

Let's get out, Like maybe she had theater tickets or something like.

There was something about.

Now, let's let's do let's get this, And of course I was just so excited to be on the set. I was like, why wouldn't everyone just want to be here for as long as humanly possible?

But she does have great highlights. I wonder what she thought about.

I wonder what like signing up for a show like that and ever imagining you would be doing it for twenty two years?

Yeah, have you gotten her on the.

Show where it's a dream.

It's a dream. We're gonna try try our best. Yeah, first we got to impress her, I think.

Yeah, all this, Yeah, just thanks for taking the time, and I'll smoke a lot of week today and on review.

Yeah, oh good, Yeah, thank you so much too.

And I hope you and TUTSI make it through the pandemic still friends. All right, let's get that was an amazing interview and honestly a dream come true. Lisa was glowing the entire time.

I was and now, well I'm excited.

Well, yeah, she was amazing, So this is our what we call our post mortem. Yeah for anyway, And this is where we wrap it up. We tell you our lessons, what we learned. And it's a fun clever name that has to do with law and order, murder postmortem but fun Morgan's here post mortem.

But make it, make it.

I hope we can go to a morgue one day for not sad reasons. I'd like to see what they're like, Oh yeah, like a tour.

Hey, if you're a mortician listener out there, or you were or a medical examiner, hit us up, because I'm also thinking of like death Becomes Her and men in black like I've just never been a part of you want to slide one of those bodies out of the thing, Yeah yeah, open one of those little refrigerator doors and be.

Like, psh, what did we learn? Let's learn.

My major takeaway is, look, I've got a little sister. You are a little sister. Let's not let's just not give up our little sisters as sexual favors to people. I know that that was in the real case that she gave her little sister up, and in this case, uh, Missy's character just kind of like wanted.

To trouble I love when Ari goes, you know, I'm playing a girl that's really troubled. I'm like, that's a vag understatement to say full blown psychopath. I also would like to say, if you're going to pawn stuff for money to commit a crime, leave town. Yeah, go do another jurisdiction to pawn. Yeah, you don't want to get caught, because I think.

Our goal is to also, through these tips, help people commit crime successfully, like stop being dumb.

Yeah, but I didn't realize.

But I guess the pawn people and the police and authorities probably have a close knit relationship.

Sure.

I don't know the answer to this, but if your kid kills your other kid, do you forgive that kid or do you hate that kid?

I think that depends on the circumstances.

I mean, that's really tough. It's tough.

I don't know that's happened a lot of times. I've read a lot of, you know, stories about that.

The only time I've heard parents turn in their kid was in the movie Alpha Dog with Justin Timberlake, which was based on a real crime as well. Watch out for our next podcast. I also would like to say, if the cops ask you to step outside your home.

Do not do it. Yeah, do not do it.

If they say you've won an award even though you shot multiple people.

You need to you need to stay inside the house.

If your dad is trying to make sure you don't get the death penalty, listen to him.

Yeah. If hot girl, even though she's great at sex, is telling you kill my sister and fuck her, you you don't have to do it.

There are so many other girls you can fuck. There are so many others. I know that you're fifteen and you think this is a hot girl, there are so many other options out there.

And we did research how to get girl on girl gonorrhea. Yes, and basically if you like use a dildo or any other item in yourself and then put it into it.

Can be transferred. I mean I think you can just say it could be transferred through sex choice. Okay, how many people get it?

So we've learned a lot.

I think this was one of the more horrific episodes season four, right out the gate, and.

Yeah, yeah it was. It was truly a to talk to Ari. I know, it was like one of our first things we wanted when we came up with this podcast.

Also, don't ever go don't ever utter the words out loud what could be worse, because they'll find a way, you know.

What I mean.

When the mom was She's like, what could be worse than this? It's like we have to sit down.

Says yeah, I got something to tell you out loud? Ever ever, ever.

And now it's time for what would Sister Peg Do? Which is our weekly segment where we take a moment to give you some more resources to further your knowledge on a topic that was tackled in today's episode.

This week, it's just a book.

This week's episode dealt with teen psychopaths, so we thought we'd I'd recommend John Ronson's book. It's called The Psychopath Test and it's a really interesting book about psychopathy that is very factual, provides a lot of factual information, but it reads more like a fun novel and not like a psych textbook or article.

So we recommend that to all of you guys.

And next week we'll be covering the Sview episode raw, so watch along with us. It's season seven, episode six, and you can do that on Hulu peacock and if you're rich, you.

Know, buy it. See you next week.

That's messed up as an Exactly Right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klink and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer and fellow s View super fan Hannah Kyle Creighton.

Thank you to our heroes Stephen Ray Morris and Annalie Snelson are Engineers.

To Henry Kaperski Musical Extraordinaire for our theme song.

To our artistic Queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of our artwork. Thank you to our executive producer, Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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