Crush w/ Noel Fisher

Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

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Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Mussed Up, an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

We're here talking s VW, true crime, celebs, fun up top. We chit chat a little bit, and if you'd like to know Kara's hair isn't the last samurai type of vibe at the moment?

Very Tom Curry. Yes, a some hair up, some hair down.

Yes, I'm ready to samurai. And we facetimed yesterday. That was really fun quick, yes, very brief, very briefly. I was chopping up a fruit platter.

What you were doing.

Lisa was living a New York St. Patrick's Day fantasy with her friends having fun corn beef. I was also at a corn beef party with our other friends, preparing the fruit for my children that won't eat anything.

We're a veg head.

I forgot well because our other friend was also making corn beef, and I realized we have so many Irish corn beef people like, well.

Lane's more just of a chef.

But it is fun that all of us were eating corn beef throughout the country together and that makes me happy.

So I loved that.

Actually, the thing where I was was fellow RM host Bananamal kurb Bronneler, and he made these green rice crispy treats and look the green food coloring.

It didn't turn out that great.

I said, it looks like gravel, but it tasted like heaven. Like these were the best rice crispery trees. I go, you got to give me your recipe. He goes, it's just a rest. I go, No, When I make them, they're too dry. They get dry. So these were like so much marshmallow.

He goes.

We were low on rice crispies and I think he used extra butter.

And I was like, I want the recipe, like I need it, Like it was so good. I was eating so many green gravelly rice crispy treats yesterday.

Well, for me, my great thing was, you know, we were hanging out all day and then at night was when you know, I was drunken high. So then I made a sandwich with this horse rattish creamy spread that land made on sour dough rye that I brought, and then corn beef and oven roasted cabbage and that.

Was my late night dinner.

And it was amazing and I'm craving it already again, like I like worse radish and even the smell of corn beef makes me pumped.

Like I walked into the apartment, I was like.

This is it.

I loved it.

It's all happening Sheenachet style. But I didn't wear green. I didn't wear green. I didn't wear green.

We all threw on a little green. The kids were wearing green, and I like, you know, but it was really cute. I said, please that video of like all these little kids like demanding they they demanded a dance party. They go, we want to have a dance party. We brought them into the office. They were like, it has to be dark. We shut all the blinds. We put on like a little rotating like light that makes, you know, shoots light around the room. And then they were demanding

Was in a dress.

Huski, my daughter was in a dress, which is weird, and everybody was pumped.

Oski was in a dress. It was really cute.

Yes, Rosie was demanding sandstorm by dar rude. Then after a sandstorm we moved into a tailor medley that at our friend's oldest daughter was obviously like fucking like singing her heart out like she is tailor's with well.

And that was really shocking because usually she's like, stop taping me, get the camera away, I don't want any photos. And in this one she was singing to the camera performing at the Grammys. She was so in tune with what I wanted. Yeah, I got a Taylor Swift balloon and give.

It to me by a friend, which you did send me a picture of and I was like, wow, that looks so big.

It's such a good bloon. Did you bring it home on the subway or like in a cab?

I took a car. I took a car. But what was interesting was she did warm me.

She goes, I have a surprise for you, And for some reason I thought she bought me a bath mat because I've been talking about like bath mate struggles.

I don't know whatever.

And when I arrived and it was a Taylor Swift bloon, and I was a lot happier because I wouldn't even thought of that, And I can get my own fucking bath mat right. They just get too dirty engrossed right away. I don't want to be picking it up and down. So I have to get like a wood one or a fast drying like I don't like this rigamarole.

Well, I have a fast drying one. I have a fasting also black send me a link, so.

It's not picking up every little you know like thing, and but I washed them when my like every two weeks.

Basically, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that.

And so our friends have this like it's just wood planks and it doesn't really work and it's kind of a nightmare. But I think I might do it just so I don't have to wash it, wash it or deal with this rug. I just don't want. There's just certain things. It's kind of like when I didn't want to put the silverware in the containers.

There's just certain things that bother me.

The one I have is not expensive, So what if you got too and you just like every two weeks, swapped it out, put it in with your laundry.

But then you have the other putting a rug in with my laundry. Oh, you don't want to do that.

There's no fucking way. No, okay, okay, okay, No. I mean, I'm sure my amazing lady will do a separate wash. It just sickens me.

I just don't want to do I understand that I actually put my MAT's in separate I do.

But I did find a nail place. Oooh they look great. Yeah, so that's really good.

But what is that?

I can't tell? Like a light purple, light pink. It's a lavender. It's a lavender.

Yeah. I have to do quiet money or luxury or whatever. I'm filming a short part in a TV show and I'm an upper class woman, and so I was told to do quiet luxury nails.

Didn't know that quiet luxury. I love that. Wait, you've never heard that. You're not on the internet. You're too busy.

No.

I think I know about quiet luxury. I think we've mentioned it.

Yeah, you're Connecticut, of course. Yes, No, I know about quiet luxury. Oh my god, Kara. So I was in Philly this weekend. We've been before. I've been before. I fell in love with Philly this trip, I truly fell in love.

Oh, I love it.

I got to do an interview on a trolley and they took me around. I learned so many cool lessons I didn't know Philly cheese steaks, Pat, that's a jew.

The reason it used to be just me and the reason it's cheese.

Whiz, It's because it's cheese in a can, so it didn't fuck with the kosher kitchen. Oh interesting, And that's how it all started. And I was like, wow, that's exciting. I went to the Fourth Street Deli. I just there was something in the air in Philly this weekend where I fell in love. But I heard about some of their killers and they're twisted. I don't know if people we have to see if there's an SVU episode based

Oh my god.

And he was like a shoe cobbler, like fucking sick. Yeah, he committed later crimes with his twelve year old son. Yeah, and then there's also a criminal of a cookie monster. He did have special needs, but he was killing sex workers, but he carried around a stuffed animal.

I'm like, Philly, you take everything to.

The next level, Like you guys can't have gritty and the cookie monster that's too crazy for me, that's too.

Much, and the hh Holmes and like all of it. I just wow.

The killers isn't what and the people were just great. I just really I felt it. I felt it.

I like the brick buildings, I felt the history. I felt it. I love that.

I have to tell you something I did this weekend, which is I was scrolling my Insta and I see this headline for a Vulture article that says Irish Wish is a crypto fascist AI generated harbinger of doom. If you fucking think I did not read that Kara before and after watching Irish Wish, then you don't know me.

Oh that's yeah. I have to say, how damn you. I just want to give a shout out.

The Vulture writer is named Rachel Handler, and I see this thing and I go, oh my god, Jared, Like, I'm not going to read the full review, but I think we should watch Irish Wish.

So on Saturday night we watched Irish Wish.

Both of the hosts fell asleep and went to bed, and I stayed in their house alone to finish Irish Wish.

That is what I did. I was like last night, Yes, amazing. So I did this on Saturday night.

I literally Jared and I were roasting it so hard together as it was happening. We were having we were dying, like I thought I was going to take my inhaler, Like I was wheezing, Like we were laughing so hard at how much wacko shit there is in this movie. Like, and then I went and I read this girl's article afterwards, and like the combination of the.

Two just really gave me so much joy.

She was such a funny writer, and she was pointing out most of the stuff that we pointed out.

There were some things she missed.

Mine is still open in my tabs, like I'm looking at because that's how much I was so taken by. It's like, I mean, it's like, you know, we do both also like to watch Housewives and like read Brian moylan recaps, like it is fun to like watch something that's kind of campy with a funny recap to it, and this girl's Irish wish recap. She literally just does a list of like forty to fifty things that are

This is not even what did the premiere feel?

Like?

Did Steph Curry go to the premiere to support his wife and go good job?

Like what?

I just need to know that what is happening in everyone's brains as they want, Like it's Lindsay like we killed it?

Or is she like is it Ai? What are the sets? They're not actually in a car in Times Square? What is being filmed? What is real?

No, it's a lot of it is like insane, like green screen backdrops like this Times Square, Like some of the photos that are even lying around the house are like so photoshopped, Like it's crazy. The script seems like it was written by Ai, which is what this girl points out a million times, like it's like not the

But she looks good.

Now I understand the genre, Like to me, okay, you're doing a Hallmark Christmas movie, like this is for the masses for a holiday.

But this isn't even that genre.

It's really more twisted than I could have ever imagined, how weird and funky it is. That Like, why is a tour bus of Ireland dropping people off door to door at.

Door to do at their house? No, I mean that's why I go.

The bus is backing up now the bus drove her down a driveway and is backing out, Like what's happening?

Also, nothing in Ireland looks like that, Like, I'm not a profet. I've only been to Ireland. Well, I've been there three times thank you. I do love it there. I've been to the Cliffs of More where they go, but it just is so And then I like the way she described that the Irish winking woman that shows up out of nowhere wearing a quilt.

Yeah.

Oh, and Jane Seymour also just the four D looks bad, like it's just too I don't know.

Everyone should watch it though.

And I like how they also make fun of like expository language, like I understand sometimes you do have to explain thing so the audience knows, but the dialogue is so heavy handed, or like they go to Jane Seymour and she works out of college and just like over the football field it says like University of des Moines, like in giant lights on a field.

The lettering was so insane because it's not like they went back and we're like back in Ireland or they or they wrote this place in Ireland in the same massive lettering. Like the lettering was so insane. Everything was crazy. All the choices were wild. I did not understand anything. But if you want to see a ninety minute enjoyable, roastable, funny, don't have to think about.

It movie, but also scary this is the future if we do not invest in art. Yes, like this is what you get, like if you guys are not terrified of AI and the like modernization of whatever. I don't even know what words to use, but this is the future if we do not take a grass Agreed. Agreed.

And it was interesting to read in the article some stuff I didn't know, which was like that Lindsay Lohan's husband is like a co producer of the movie and that's why, like she's really dressed very modestly the whole time.

She's dressed like she's going to a job interview in two thousand and seven. There's no kissing, there's no low cut anything like, no, like everybody is so modest, Like it's really it's like it feels like it's for like Maga tradwives.

Like I don't know, it's wild.

But I also laughed my ass off watching it and reading this article as an accompaniment. So read it, watch it, enjoy it, but just be careful because this is what Oscar movies are gonna look like.

Well be cause that is that's what else.

I was thinking, Oh, we're watching this and we see the flaws and like, are there people watching this going.

That was awesome. I got to tell my cousin to watch it.

A lot of the comments were just like it's camp, don't take it so seriously, and I'm like, yeah, it's camp. And she's writing about how it's camp and funny. I mean, like, I don't think, but the comments are like, I loved it. I just thought it was fun and like light and easy. I think some people times when the world is in shambles, some people need really mindless stuff to lean on.

Because I liked her Winter one.

We watched her like Christmas Christmavie last year, and I thought that one was truly like Casa Blanca.

Compared to this one, you know what I mean, Like.

Yeah, because I think also they let Lohand be a little bit of like the bitch at the beginning, so she kind of had like a character shift and was funny in that Christmas one, because the Christmas one was basically overboard, where you know, amnesia and then she becomes a nice person. But like I I don't know, I just had a blast. I really had a blast watching this insane fucking movie.

But I agree, I.

Don't want to see more of these. I just wanted to be this one special one for me. So she's like a book editor. You know, she edits this guy's book, but then she keeps carrying the book everywhere. She goes like put the book down. And at the party, her.

Best friend Steph Curry's wife Ayosha Curry goes, she goes, you really killed it on the cover art? Stunning? Are you seeing it for the first time today at the book release party? You're the book editor. What's happening? Everything is so insane.

And then my friend reminded me of this.

I don't know if you remember this, because I think I blocked it out, But remember Lindsay Lohan five years ago did try to kidnap children off the street.

Do you remember.

No, they were like Syrian refugees, like a Syrian family was hanging out, and Lindsay Lohan tried to take the kids away from the mom to quote unquote save them. And then in the article it sad the mom punched Lindsay to make her drop her children, and Lindsay's like, I was just trying to help these refugees, and the mom's like, we don't need your help. Stop taking my children. And she tried to kidnap Syrian children off the street. I mean, she has incredible pr I'm sorry the fact

You don't remember it, do you? I don't. I now that you're saying it. It's it's ringing a bell. It's not like totally not ringing a bell. But I forgot. I mean, she was doing a lot of crazy shit back then.

It was the mikon Nos and like the you know, there was a lot of crazy stuff happening with the Lindsay Lohan beach club, and owning a beach club is different than then capping a family.

I understand that. I understand that.

It doesn't feel like she got as close to it as I mean, I don't think they were calling Olivia Benson. But you know, that is really fucked. That's very fucked. Obviously, let's start. We got to get into this because okay, we have the Guests of the Century. We have a crazy good episode for you guys today so let's get going. Obviously, go to Thats Messed Up Live dot com for merch tour dates all that other kind of stuff, But for now, listen to our glorious podcast.

Okay, I'm excited.

Today we are doing the episode Crush, Season ten, episode twenty. Do you think of the song? It's just yeah, a little crush. Yeah, that's what I think of. I was really into that song my freshman year of college. It was on more than one mix. This episode's from two thousand and nine, baby, and it's wild. I was telling Lisa this earlier, but this is one of those episodes like I know I've seen it, but I absolutely suppressed it.

Me, not for me, not for me.

I know this pretty well. I probably didn't even have to watch it again to really I really.

Know it well.

I know it because you know it has we'll get to it. But it has a guest star who is I'm obsessed with. She's just such a bitch. Yeah, and I know that I've seen her episode, But as I was watching this, I was like, wait, what happens? Like I didn't know what happened, so I was really excited to rewatch it. Of course, now I've rewatched it twice. So the first thing we see when we open that episode is an extreme close up of a girl being kind of slammed against a locker. But then she's being

What's the theme? Lockers or like game?

No, just like loving somebody but also not being comfortable with things that are going on, and you know, being something like are you into it or you not in you know, like that kind of thing. So yeah, the bell rings and she's like, okay, horn dog, I have class,

Down those stairs.

So at the hospital, now Benson a sailer there getting the rundown from a doctor.

The girl's name is Kimberly Garnett.

She's fifteen and she's in a coma from an intracranial bleed. Elliott and Olivia are like, okay, why are we here? And the doctor's like well, this girl's been abused. We found a bruise on her scalp that's unrelated to this fall, and he guesses she was kicked in the head a couple of days ago and it wasn't the first time. She's got calcifications on her brain from an old subdrylhematoma,

Dun't dunt, dun, duh, duh.

And then we're at the credits and now top of act one, Kim's mother, Liz is talking to the cops as she looks like through a window at her daughter in the hospital bed. And she's played by Kelly Overbee, who was familiar to me. She also played the mother in the episode Complicated, which is not Stranger. It's another episode where a missing girl shows up after years and it's not really her because in reality, the girl's brother killed her Jean Benet style, and the dad, who is

And I didn't even know.

We're bouncing back and forth to obviously a gender divided questioning. We're stablers talking to the dad and he's like, oh, why didn't she tell us, and stablers like, you know, shame, you know, maybe she's scared of whoever's been hurting her. And the dad's like, well, her grades had slipped from a's to b's. We've been honored to drop a sport and clean up her act. And I was like, wow, imagine if my parents were just begging me to drop a sport to get my grades up. The dad's like,

I want it gone.

I know, but did you see the daddy daughter dance that I posted? That was like the most incredible thing ever. And I go, this is the only daddy daughter dance I can get behind. Was it Russell Wilson and his daughter?

No?

Who wasn't. No, it was not Russell Wilson. No, it wasn't. Okay not but it was an amazing performance.

We'll have to post it it was just like it was more of a on a recital, so it was a performance, not a virginity based party, you know. Yeah, but he just like showed out and the girl was amazing and they were doing lifts and her form was so good and it was just like and they skipped off together at the end and it was really cute.

They did a lift like dirty dancing style, right.

There was lifts, there was lists, yeah, yeah, and they both just like killed it and it was really cute and fun. That's great to find one daddy daughter thing that I don't hate.

Is pretty cool. A daddy daughter performance. Let's do it.

There's a guy on TikTok I really love who does like gymnastics with his daughter and like he's always lifting her up because he's a gymnast, and like I love that. It's like the whole getting dressed up and like going on a date with your dad. I know some of you have written us and said you've done it and it was cute and sweet, and I want you to have that memory.

It's just I don't like the vibe for me.

As long as it is not based on your mind until your husband.

Yeah, you give me your virginity. Yeah, this is about God.

Like, yeah, I feel like a daddy daughter party is cool, right, not slow dancing or.

Like go camping with your dad. Do something that's like useful. I don't know, like go survive in the wilderness for two days with your dad.

I do not want to camp. I would rather go dance than camp.

Caara, I was thinking about Rosie and Rosie would like to go camping with her dad, but Jared would be.

So bad at it, and it just really got me laughing.

But also just the phrase daddy's girl. I just don't like daddy's little girl, like you're I just don't like it. It's like, yeah, I don't know. But at the same time, I do always say my son is a mama's boy, so maybe I'm being a hypocrite. He is obsessed with me. But Rosie's not a daddy's girl. I wouldn't say she likes this sequally memore, but you know she likes her dad.

No, don't worry.

I've been in the Instagram comments fighting about just men feeling forgotten after their wives give birth, and I'm like, I'll kill you, I'll die. Oh my god, you won't be forgotten. If you did some work, why don't you get up and do something no one will forget you. Then did you see the British video will You Make a Roast? And she just had a baby two days ago. I was just hoping it wasn't real. I was just I had to hope it wasn't real. But of course

It's like so insane to me.

And then to even discuss why Mother's Day is more important than Father's Day or like that they feel forgotten when women are straight up dying, giving birth, right, getting injured, but even postpartum, all of this stuff.

I keep having a delete Instagram. I just the kids.

The kids can feel who's carrying the mental load. Let's just say that they can feel it, or the.

Caring or any of it. And of course they're going to do it. And if you are jealous of that, do more. Like it's just so wild. It's like, yeah, you're not the center of it. Yeah, and it's moved over. But the internet, the roast thing was that was wild, I know, but that's crazier than just I don't know, because I saw one video of a woman whatever it was about, shoveling snow.

Narcissus. Don't change whenever read a book. Keep talking. Okay, crush, does this make you want an orange soda? Oh?

I love orange crush and grape crush. Me too, well, I have ollipop, orange and grape in the fridge. You're a change person, Ollipop. If you're listening, we're sponsoring you already. Throw some money at us.

Nine grams of fiber and a delicious drink. That's great.

I should give it to my kids. Rosie doesn't get enough fiber. Nine grams of fucking fiber. They should give us money. Yeah, I mean we really love it.

Okay.

So liv is like the you know, talking to the mom about Kim being a dotty's girl. She's digging like, oh, well, maybe the dad takes it out on Kim because he's pissed and stressed out, cut to stable and doing the same shit. And he's pressing the dad and the dad's like shut up, and he's not having it, and Stabler's like, I get it.

I hate my daughters too, dating guys.

I don't like giving me lip talking back, and the guy keeps telling him stop it, but Stabler keeps going and pushing until the dad ends up pummeling a gennery vending machine that says refreshments on it, so it's a real outburst, and.

Then he goes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's not who I am. And it's like, sir, like I don't know, no, I'm sorry.

If someone accused you of raping your child and you didn't, I bet you'd swing a punch.

Oh sure, I mean, well he was accusing him of meeting her up, not not sexually assaulting her, but also wouldn't you swear?

Yeah, it's just like punching a vending machine.

Who is that?

I don't know.

I don't get I just don't. It's it's just not wired in my brain to hurt myself to get my anger out. No, I usually scream, yeah, yeah, I scream, or I walk away. I run away because I like get too mad. So the mom runs in when she hears the vending machine assault and like the guys swearing up and down, I didn't hurt Kimmy, And they're like, is there anyone She confides in, and sure enough, let

So cuts to the pool. All right, I was wrong a swimmer. He's not.

In my experienced swimmers have more close cropped haircuts because of the swim cap.

No, you're wrong.

They grow their hair long for resistance and then shave shave it right before I meet.

Yes, got it.

Sorry to stop you early, but you know, I am a pro got it swimming. Yeah, but it just that's not what I imagine immediately. I think it's because I imagine like Michael Phelps and like not like that crazy curls. Anyway, he's getting out of the pool talking to the cops like she's gonna be okay.

Right.

They've been dating for about a year. They were really good friends. She tutored him in math, and then like you know, things just happened. And he's like, her parents hate our relationship, which sucks because we always have to go back to my place to bone. And it's like, why does it matter where you bone if you're getting it. You're getting sex at the age of fifteen or sixteen,

Like you think I hit her.

It's like yes, sir, and they're like, well somebody did, and he's like, no way, not me, and he did notice a couple months ago she didn't want to mess around because her shoulder was fucked up, and he noticed bruises on her ribs and she told him it was from her boxing class. But no one's supposed to know about that. So now we cut to a one of the most classic Law and Order guest star moves. I can see is just a boxing instructor who will not stop hitting a punching bag for even a second to

That was John Edwards.

He hits on Kim a lot, and then he fucks with her workouts when she rejects him, like trips her up on the jump rope or whatever. And he was just bothering her recently when she was at the gym and They're like, where can we find him?

Good news, he's right there at the gym.

So she calls up to the guy in the boxing ring and goes, hey, Edwards, get your ass down here, and he goes, what you want, bitch, So he's a prince. Stabler flashes his badge on the guy. Edwards does not give a shit, so he just keeps boxing. Elliott gets in the ring with Elliott has what my dad used to call a shit eating grin. It's like my dad used always be like, wait, that shit eating grin off your face, and I'd be like, why would eating shit make me grin?

Like?

But it is just like this the cocky elliot grin where he's about to, you know, teach this kid a lesson. And the guy tries to step to Stabler and stab knees him right in the dick and then cuffs him for assaulting a police officer, so he cuts the precinct. Stabler is like bringing in the prince of men for trespassing and assaulting a cop.

He's like, I never hurt Kim. I was just trying to talk to her.

They go to throw him in a holding cell with a very large bald man child rapist named Little Pete and suddenly Ricky is singing like a bird.

He's like, you can't leave me in here with him, and so he's not so tough.

Anymore without his bucks and gloves on, and he says he waited outside the gym for her. She wouldn't give him the time of day. He wanted to throttle her, but he didn't like lock this guy up forever like this is. It's only a matter of time, you know, before he fucking kills a woman. And also let's keep in mind that this is a fifteen year old girl, Like Rick Edwards looks like an adult to me, and he's like pissed at a fifteen year old girl won't

And then he goes into how this underage teen is smoking hot. That's what Stucky starts talking.

About, and like, I know he's an idiot, but like you do remember that you went to a high school and Jimmy'd open a locker to get the cell phone, right, Like you remember that it's a kid pretty much no matter what. And so Elliot's like, give me the phone, and there's a pick of Kim lying on a bed like on her stomach, like, you know, hands head in your hands, in a completely covered up pose, like it honestly looks like a resort brochure, Like it looks like

So who sent that?

Stucky checks and like the information on the text and it says that it came from Kim's own phone, and Kragan's.

Like, why would she send a death threat to herself? Dun dun? Act two.

Okay, So now we're talking to a CSU tech that we actually love and respect O'Halleran, and he's telling them I don't think Kim sent this text message and Stucky then starts to tell them about spoofing, and it is two thousand and nine, so he does have to explain that to Stabler, where you know spoofing is like he basically kicks o'haleran out of his seat and asks Stabler to write down his digits, and Stabler goes, you sex me,

A subpoena for all of them.

So Ohalarin's like, yes, just Stucky wasting our time again, Like this is not leading anywhere, so let's get back to work, and he shows them how he's been tracing the image to who she originally sent it to. Steve Walker is on her phone bill, but she first texted them to Ethan Morse. His cell tracks to an address in Little Neck and Elliott is rushing off to Queen's when Stucky's like, actually, he's in Manhattan.

It just hit me. That's where all the clams come from. Cute. Oh yeah, a Little neckclam. Wow. Local.

So Elliott he's like, all right, off to Queen's where I know the name of every single private school and Catholic school.

And then Stucky's like, wait a minute, he's in Manhattan. I just googled him.

He goes to Grandview Prep, which is the school from the episode. They don't really clarify that, but it is the school where the other kids have gone. And Ethan got great reviews for his performance in Oklahoma last fall.

He's the star of their theater program.

Wow, Stucky amazing at Google found all that stuff very quickly. So now we're at the Grand View Prep auditorium and the young guy in a full gangster outfit Fedora comes up that balcony like you guys wanted to see me, And then it's like, you guys wanted to see me? A like, and he goes, let me guess you're from William Morris here to give me my big break, and Finn goes, we're not that kind of agent. A little

This is the actor.

I didn't like put that together until when I saw them later in the courtroom that that's who I was watching.

I know Ezra, which is a fun name from Perks of Being a Wallflower.

Oh that's right. Yeah, I've never seen that and in train Wreck, right, yeah, train Wreck.

But it is pretty wild that they were in this episode fifteen years ago and now they have all these allegations, you know, of abuse. So we'll leave you guys to it to research that we're going to kind of focus on the episode. So they start asking about Kim and he's like, we're friends. And so then they ask about the nudes and he's like, everyone got those. She meant to send them to her boyfriend Steve, and he's like, look, fellas, Like he's basically has a good cigar in his hand.

I got a run.

So he said he last saw her after first bell on Monday. So now back at the precinct, Finn's telling Stabler that Ethan isn't being totally truthful.

And by the way, just to go back Monday, I believe is the day of the fall.

So back at the precinct, Finn's telling Stabler that Ethan's not being totally truthful. Kim was actually in his part of town Friday night. Tarru checked her cell bum bah bah bah, so why was what was she out there eating clams?

What was she doing in little Neck?

So she was hanging out with Ethan while sexting dirty pictures to Spido's Steve.

Plus, Ethan has.

A record, it turns out, at least at school where he's been suspended twice for starting fights and he kicked a student in the head, So the plot thickens.

Finn got all this info.

From a buddy who happens to be the head of security for grand View Prep. I love Finn's connections and he's like, yeah, he slipped me Ethan's file on the DL and then in walks Samantha Copeland and she goes, well, slip them back. And this is an actress named Melinda McGraw and she was a regular on the COMMISSH and she's working. This woman works, so I don't really know other stuff that she's from, but the COMMISSI was, you know, something in my conness when I was younger, and she's

You know?

And Stabler's like everything points to Ethan.

Like even if it was any job, like I'm just trying to take this prosecutor cop relationship out and that's not how you act when you start.

A job anywhere.

I know, Like, it's just so wild to just show up to a restaurant gig and be like what are the specials?

Like say, hello, who are you? Yeah? Anything here? Any I can actually serve to people?

Any of this food edible? So Stabler says, everything points to Ethan, and I'm like.

How like a text message? Like not everything points to Ethan.

She was definitely assaulted on Friday, and on Friday she was in Little Neck, So they think his motive is that he had a crush on her. Drink for the name of the episode, and they think that she sent him these pictures and then he's pumped and invites her over to score, but then she tells him, oops, it was a mistake. They were meant for speedo Steve and Ethan flips out and beats the shit out of her. It's a good theory, I wouldn't say all arrows point

So that's like what everybody's trying to make happen.

And uh, Steve's like Why does it look like you're stalking her, like you're not buying tickets together, and he's like, it's her idea. It was in case somehow Ethan saw us on the train to like be separate. Okay, that feels a little bit too Agatha Christie.

But go off, king uh.

Stabler shows him the sex and is like, did you send this death threat? And Ethan's like, I did not send the death threat. I was bummed. I wasn't homicidal that she didn't want to hook up with me. They're like, you spoof the number, and he goes spoofing?

What what are you guys?

Even I'm talking about even this kid does not know what fucking spoofing is. And Finn is like, really going after this theater kid like he's laying into him, like just beating up girls make you feel like a big man. And finally Ethan's mother is like enough, no more talking without a lawyer. Back to Steve and the dad is basically doing the same thing. He's like, I know my rights, I know what's up. We're out of here unless you

This is someone who lost their way. It's not about the victims, now, you know what I mean?

Like, what are you doing?

What are you doing? Yeah? Playing your little legal games for what?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah totally.

So yeah, She's like, you do it, or I'll find someone who will, and I'll report your ass to IAB. So Damn Live goes in and, against her better judgment, cuffs Kim to her hospital bed.

Kim is crying and is like, what are you doing?

I thought you wanted to help me, and Live is just like reading or her rights like a robot and that's you know, that's the fade to commerci. So at the top of act three, we meet who is representing Kim, and it is defense attorney Miranda Pond and she is played by Alex Kingston and who I was really obsessed

Yeah, I love her.

She's also been in a lot of British stuff, like I think she's been in Doctor Who, and she was married to Ray Fines sexy and he had a affair with a co star and that's what ended their relationship, but they were together. Yeah, they were together for ten years. So she talked, I guess openly about how she was very,

So her name rhymes with Lucy, not Woozy.

But she is a huge person in my family because she's on the show's Sisters, which I've talked about many times.

There's a judge.

Patricia Callimber plays a judge, and she was on Sisters as well. Cela Ward was also on Sisters, and Swusy Kurtz played Alex, and I've just loved her since then. She's one I think Tony's and Emmy's. I mean, she's a very accomplished actor.

And just her red hair is iconic and this episode, yeah she has like iconic red hair.

Yeah, I mean, we'll get to know her more.

But I obviously have a full fan fiction of her and Judge Oliver Tait and they are together, they're out of prison and they're getting their life back while being sparred. You know, That's why I'm so shocked that you don't have such a like strong picture of this episode in your brain, because she, to me is just so like good in that I don't know, I'm just obsessed with her.

I'm obsessed with her.

Maybe I just wasn't willing to allow her to be what she ultimately turns out to be because I love her so much from sisters and is like a good guy character, you know. Like but in my family, we used to like anytime we saw her, we would always go swuz.

Like we just always would say swooze all the time.

And so like, if I was to call my sister right now and be like, who was alex on sister, she'd be like, oh, swooz, Like that's like always what we called her. So loving her as a guest star in this episode, and she's like, well, I can't define child pornography, but I know it when I see it, and this sure looks like kittie porn, Miss Pond, and Pond and Samantha go back and forth about how oh Kim distributed porn and then no, the law is to protect children and she is part of the protected class.

I know you don't.

And then Benson gets a phone call and uh oh, it is not good news, and she's like, Pond, hop in my ford tourists, we need to take a ride. So in the hospital it's the same doctor as before. He's briskly walking and talking with Benson and Pond telling them about compound fractures because Kim has been attacked again. Pond says that kids dating is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be about prom dress colors, not visits to the er. And the doctor's like, I actually see

That does.

That seems like low to me. But Kim is still lying about what happened. When they walk in, she immediately goes it was an accident, and she has a truly horrific black eye, like a real not like a ooh see, I bumped into.

A Heather Gay black eye. Yes, a Heather Gay full black eye.

And the parents are begging her to tell the truth, and she's like, I fell off my skateboard and it's like this girl's playing sports trying to pull straight a's but her glades are slipping, and then she's like taking time to board on the side.

I don't buy it.

So she doesn't trust Olivia because she arrested her, which is fair, and she just wants them all to leave her alone. But it's like, Babe, you know Olivia Benson can't do that. So Kim screams, get out. I want her out of here. Benson hit the bricks and so

No, they fucking do this.

Once in a while, they'll just like, for some reason, one of the characters will act wildly opposite of anything they've ever stood for in their whole life. Yeah, you know what I mean, They'll just like out of nowhere, flip flop where they're like, there's no evidence, but lock them up and you're like yeah.

Or Benson'll be like I just don't believe this little girl no way. Like so, Liv argues, how is a team sending pictures to two boys her own age considered kitty porn? And Craigan admits the law hasn't caught up with the tech and lives like, well, we're criminalizing private behavior. Craigan's like, it's not private when it's sexting college admissions officers,

Why are the boys not on trial? Not getting it?

So, now it's Sam's turn, and she's like, so you sent the picks to the boys and then one of them viral the picks to get back at you, and they are really trying to make Virald happen on this episode, and Pond objects it's sustained and they're like, well.

She goes, well, do you think one of them sent you the death threat? And Kim's like, I don't know.

Sam's like, well maybe it was the same person who beat the shit out of you yesterday. And Pond tries to object, but Sam lays it all out and she's like, no, I think this witness was physically assaulted to intimidate or influence her testimony, and Judge Marsden looked shocked. She's like, young lady, is this true. Kim's like, I had an accident with her, you know. Signature monotone and the judge

And they send this poor.

Teen who it has still a gleaming black eye and her arm in a sling to court lock up. So Sam says, well, at least she'll be safe tonight, and then Pond tells liv this might be the only way, like she won't listen to anyone, and Benson's like, light bulb moment, I have someone that I might think might be able to get through to her, so he cut to the lock up. Pond and Benson enter with who

But then she tells the whole story.

She's like, Okay, Friday, at school, I noticed my phone was missing when I went to go make a call, and it was Steve who stole it because he's always checking up on me. He found the picks to Ethan and he thought I was cheating on him, so he sent them to everyone in the school and spoofed my number so that no one would know it was him. And then he said if he saw her ever talking to Ethan again, he'd kill her. And so as she's telling the story, we've moved to voiceover and we're watching Speedo.

But done done. Judge Marsden denies the motion.

We had a moment like this in the Tom Scarett episode Poison, which is Oliver Tait, the judge that Leasa mentioned before, who just sort of, you know, overrules a jury or like overrules you know, emotion that is perfectly acceptable for everyone else, and everyone looks gagged. They're like what, and the judge goes, the respondent will rise for my decision, and Pond is like, your decision. We haven't had closing arguments, and the judge is like, we're not required to hear

In this role.

She finds Kim guilty of producing, possessing, and distributing a sexual performance by a child. Her sentence is incarceration in a juvenile sex offender facility in Ohio for one year. This is wild. She's a first time offender. It's a nonviolent offense. This is insane. So Kim yells at Olivia on the way out, like I listened to you and you lied to me. And then the camera stops just on Judge Marsden's evil smirk before it fades to black.

She's shocked.

She's like, I thought she'd get probation at worst, and they're like, this prison is five hundred miles away. If something happens to her there, it's on you. She's like, what do you want me to do? And they're like, get the judge to reconsider, and Sam is scared. She's like, I have other cases before this judge. She can make my life a living hell, and Pond is like, uh, I'm gonna make your life a living hell too, bitch.

They're like, what the hell is going on?

Like, New York City has three juvenile facilities, why would you send her to this one in Ohio.

Or like even Connecticut?

Penncilvan New Jersey like Ohio as far as fuck from New York and lives like not gonna let this go. So now they're at the clerk offices for Family Court and they're asking this little dorky clerk guy for statistics on Judge Marsden, and the guy they're talking to is like, no problem, let me get that for you. But suddenly a guy behind them is like, actually, I'm Ed Mangini. I'm the senior clerk and everything has to go through me.

I was about to say well, there's sweet old dork and then there's irs audit kind of guy.

Yes, yes, now just that's warp totally.

So sweet old dork goes ask her yourself, Her honor wants to see you both pronto. So they show up in Judge Martinson's courtroom and she's taking a recess from a trial she's currently presiding over, and she asks Pond, oh, are you representing Olivia? And she's like, does she need a lawyer? And Marsden is like, of course not. This is all off the record, a friendly little chat. Come join the party. Come on, ladies, let's gab. So why

Someone has to take a stand.

It's like, where was she with these kids that were drinking in the episode responsible that we do at our live shows. We got we had Jude a light giving them chance after chance lives like, oh is that it? Or do you get off on the power? And the judge tells Olivia you better watch it or I'll hold you in contempt and she goes, how I thought this was just a friendly chat, and I really like love it when Olivia gets like sarcastic and sassy, but uh oh,

Well, yeah, obviously, because it's someone that no regard for anyone else's life. You know, like this girl's now on a sexual registry list. Yeah, because she took a photo and accidentally sent it to an extra friend who then spread it. It's like, it's wild to just want to ruin someone's life and no no care, no care in the world.

Yeah.

So in the next scene, the two ladies are in a cell when Cragan shows up and Benson's like, what are you waiting for?

Spring us?

And Craigan's like, I'm just savoring the moment, but like it lasts one second and then the door opens and Olivia comes out, and I'll tell you something. Her hair looks bouncy and shiny and gorgeous even in a musty cell. And she's like, we didn't even get our phone call. How do you know we were here? And he goes Sam called the corporation council. So then they go to speak to her and they're like, I thought you were scared of crossing this bitch, and she was like, well,

Dent in a car.

You know, you don't want that whole booty denting your sports car. So Stabler's like, nice wheels?

Is it a rental? And the guy's like, I own it?

And he's like pretty pricey for a government hack and you know, flashes his badge. And then in the next scene, Manginie's an interrogation with both Benson and Stabler asking this rat to explain himself, and he's like, I want a lawyer, and they're like, great idea, And maybe your lawyer can't explain a Mercedes and a seven figure condo in Boca on a salary of fifty six K. I'm sorry, a one million dollar condo in Boca in two thousand and nine.

This better be ocean front. Like I don't know the market in Boca, but that shit better be on the water. But yeah, it's also like you couldn't get an Audi. You had to get the Mercedes. I know, like you

You're driving it to the courthouse where you are doing crimes. In New York City in New York City where no one drives. It's too crazy. And they're like telling him, They're like, so listen, right now, you're going down alone. We've got you on corruption, tax evasion. You cooperate with us. Now you're a witness and you're not a co conspirator. And he's like, okay, all right, and he just he doesn't even wait for that lawyer anymore. He's like, Judge Martin likes a certain kind of case, and I'm the

Yeah, because I do remember voting for Chicago judgeler like Cook County and like going Aho website.

Yeah yeah, who was good and bad? And so many bad judges.

It's like people before voting should look like I mean, obviously going to cover this real case, but like, I think these judges are causing a lot of problems.

All over town today that we're actually recording.

This episode is primaries here in California, and I voted for all these judges, but I consult like a progressive voter guide so that I'm hopefully voting for judges who are not you know, fucking Swoosy Kurtz.

Like, I just don't know if normal, chill, good people want to just be judges. Except for one person I know who's on a judge bath. But I believe in her. But that's because her father was a judge whatever. So it's like a pilot, you know, like even if you're doing good work, you do have an ego.

Surgeons, you know, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.

So anyway, Elliott undercover as Saroda pulls out a big yellow envelope full of cash, presumably and throws it on her desk, and then she shuts her portfolio on top of it, so clearly.

A motion of accepting it. And now we're in court and it's a full school play.

Okay, we've got Elliott in his glasses, Huong playing a defense attorney, and Ethan grand views star of Oklahoma has landed the role of Polly Catilano.

I love out of all the detect to everyone that could have used undercover, they're like, you know, let's go to the back to the high school and.

Get that theater kid. He's gonna kill it. It's like the best.

This should be a spinoff movie, honestly. And then he starts just like going undercover for the cops.

I mean, yeah, I love this. I mean role of a lifetime. I love it.

So anyway, Judge Marsden is like doing the thing that she does, and she's up charging the defendant. She's changing all the charges to grand larceny, auto custodial interference, and endangering the welfare of a child.

And it's interesting because this one I don't think is.

Gonna get her any money, because I don't think that this is gonna get sent to Wellsburg.

But it does show that she just has a pattern of.

Like taking bribes and she doesn't give a fuck about kids, and so she escalates all these charges and then Huang objects and Marsden is like, don't tell me how to run my court room, and Polly aka Ethan has an outburst and Kragan's there playing his dad and is like, calm down, Polly. And we just don't get episodes like this anymore, like a full sting operation in court where everyone is acting and bringing their Thespian game.

I'm obsessed.

So she remands the kid to jail until trial, which is also a wild thing to do for a non violent offense, like to deny bail, Like I learned all about that during you know, the odd non saied is Like one of the reasons that people think he did not get a good defense is because he never once they took him, the police took him from his home, he never went back to his house again. So he like to let not let kids out on bail is

They hug. Maybe they'll start dating.

Maybe she needs a theater dork to help her heal from this horrible relationship. She's getting out of her verdict and her sentence have been vacated, there's no record.

It's like it never happened.

And Kim says, a lot happened, and you all helped me, and Liv goes, no, you helped yourself, and then Kim smiles, and that's dick Wolf.

Baby Very After School Special.

Very.

Here's the thing.

I have a couple holes with this episode, which is like, like, one, why are we not trying the boys for disseminating the child pornography? Like that's like we could have easily figured that out. But also it doesn't really track for me that this judge was doing this to a girl who

It's like, you think she's gonna let this happen. She obviously gonna get you.

No, I do.

I think power corrupts your brain and it knows you, and I think you think you can get away with everything. I think it makes you arrogant, and that's when you get slappy and start making mistake. Yeah, you're getting all this money, You're controlling everything.

Yeah, it's sick. I guess she's close with this cousin.

I mean I don't know.

Yeah, this cousin. How much could you possibly be getting? Oh my god, Well, hold on to your seat belts. Guys.

I've heard of this crime, but I don't know a lot, so I'm excited for you to tell me.

So this episode is based on the Kids for Cash scandal and sets of crimes, not to be confused with Cars for Kids, which is what I thought this was this whole time before I started researching, was so fully separated. Did you think there was a scandal at Cars for Kids? One hundred percent correct?

Yes, wow wow wow wow wow.

Okay, because it seems shady cars is spelled with a K the billboards, like, I didn't believe in that either, So I did think that this was going to be a car I didn't. Yeah, I didn't realize that this was a different thing. So anyways, not good. There's a lot of different reporting, and maybe it's throughout the times, but between twenty five hundred and five thousand kids were affected by this Kid's for Cash scandal one judge aka one and a half. I would say two judges, a

I think it's Luzerne. Yeah, I would, That's how I would say it.

And if it's not, you're in a dumb town, okay, Well yeah, you're known for this okay. So basically what the Law Center discovered beyond horrible. And so this county, Luzerne County was formerly known for coal and now for organized crime and public corruption.

Is it's number one claim to fame.

So basically, all of these kids, they all stood in front of Judge Mark Sierra Virella. But I might call him citronella throughout, because it's an easier word for me to say, but it seems like the same, you know what I mean. And then he saw these kids without counsel most of the time, found them guilty very very quickly for minor offenses, and then immediately transferred them out of their home immediately, which of course this is not allowed.

And it shows us how bureaucracy is stupid.

So in his courtroom, these kids were seen without counsel like five times more the state average from nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and three, and then once all of these deals and business things and corruptions started, from two thousand and three to two thousand and seven, it was ten times the state average that he was seeing kids without counsel. And then I wrote, OMG in my notes, Yeah,

Oh my god.

Sorry if I popped anyone's ear vault like earbuts by yelling, but four minutes.

Fuck.

And then not only that, more evidence was the detention center workers were told in advance how many juveniles to expect at the end of each day. But that was before hearings, So like before the hearings to determine if these kids were innocent or guilty even happened, they were already telling the detention center workers how many and take that people were going to come in, and lawyers told families even don't even bother hiring us, because he doesn't

And there is a documentary on all of this called Kids for Cash.

It came out in twenty fourteen, so if you want more information, and it was done by a legit reporter.

So in two thousand and eight.

They petitioned the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to vacate all these juveniles and expunge the records. But the court denied the initial petition. But then the United States Attorney alleged that this judge, you know, Citronella and another judge in Luzern County named Michael Conahan had accepted two point six million dollars in kickbacks from two private for profit juvenile facilities.

That's what I love.

I love that these like super like always are the ones committing all of these fucking crimes.

Yeah.

So they lived right next to each other. They bought houses next to each other in this wealthy suburb called Wilkes Bar. There's like another co conspirator that lived in that neighborhood too, We'll learn about him.

So, and they were close.

These judges, they would get RVs as families had to penn State games Florida. They were all friends, and they also had a lot in common, like sending children as young as.

Eight to detention centers. Oh my god, yeah eight.

Oh yeah, And if parents were unable to pay the costs of detention, their children were held longer. One teen social security survivors check from her dead father were garnished to pay the costs of being sent away by one of these judges.

Wait a minute, you have to pay for it when you get sentenced to a juvenile facility.

You pay for it, well, I know, for jail, Like I got a bill after I got out of jail for a few days. You owe money, who you owe money for your time? That's why it's crazy.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, I mean it's for profit, like oh my god, or you owed the city. But yeah, you get bill. You get like a bill.

Anyone can write in and tell me if I'm wrong, but yeah, fuck okay.

Many of these children first time offenders for things like petty theft, jaywalking, true and see smoking on school grounds. So like one girl, Hillary Transu, did not have an attorney, She was not told she had the right to one. She appeared in his courtroom Sevrella in two thousand and seven for building a MySpace page that made fun of

Oh my god.

One parent he threw in jail who could not pay the court and posed fees for his daughter who was locked up. A thirteen year old was incarcerated for throwing a piece of steak at her mother's boyfriend. There was a fifteen year old who was sentenced for throwing a sandal at her mother. An eleven year old who called the police after her his mother locked him out of

Oh my god.

So this girl wrote something on a stop sign and then ended up like full on physical harm. One fourteen year old pocketed changed from unlocked cars in the neighborhood and a cop caught him, and so this eighth grader was taken away and shipped to a school for troubled teens for nine months.

Jesus, this is so bad.

The judge would find kids delinquent and straight up shackle them and take them away without giving them a chance to put up a defense or even saying goodbye to their families. Many of these kids were traumatized for life, as you can imagine being shipped off to jail and then having so much struggle when they come back, and then they're shunned by their friends.

It's like, you know that this guy, besides the fact that he's getting kickbacks or whatever the fuck, thinks that like this is like a scared straight tactic that's like good to help these kids like never commit a crime again. And it's like, how much do you want to admit that this fucked them all up so much that like they can't hold jobs, they commit crimes, Like do you know what I mean?

Yeah, but I don't even think he thought he was doing good. I really don't see that in him, Like I just think he's a piece of shit.

Yeah, God, no, just to say that, like, traumatizing kids doesn't teach them a lesson, you know, he just traumatizes them.

Yeah, trauma is just trauma. Doesn't make you stronger, better, anything like that.

But it wasn't even just juvenile cases, like this guy was just corrupt, you know, you would help his friends out. He had a friend from high school who ended up standing before him in court. He was going eighty and a fifty five and the judge said no, he wasn't, he was going sixty.

Matter closed and it was dismissed and done. Wow that was that. And so for me, I'm like, well, how did this go on for so long?

So like people must have seen it, right, prosecutors, public defenders, teachers, court employees, everyone saw what was going on. Like Severrella even told juvenile probation officers that talk to kids. He's like, talk kids out of exercising their right to count. So he gave direct orders to employees to convince kids not to get lawyers. But later when he was asked why he didn't make a habit of doing the opposite, you know,

Yeah, because at the age of eleven, you should know how the justice system works and that you're allowed a lawyer.

Like, what are you talking about? You better start getting some tutoring for those kids. You know, Rosie is gonna be up to no good. She needs to know this stuff. Yeah, yeah, knock on wood. I could see her making a little MySpace page.

Oh absolutely, And yeah, I gotta definitely tell her don't say anything to me on the phone from jail, Like what that TikTok says. Yeah, Like she's gonna call me from jail and I'm gonna go.

Just But even though I'm like where were the people, there were people that were trying to help, and you know, some got pushed through and did some tried. You know, there were local reporters who broke the story. There was another whistle blowing family court judge. Like I mentioned the Juvenile Law Center attorneys from Pennsylvania who represented some of the detained children, and they were the ones that petitioned the Supreme Court. There were parents that like fought for

Kickbacks and in charge of all of this. Oh my god, and he was the head of stuff.

So it was just like even the people that were trying to do stuff really couldn't do much, no authority, and you know, the voices are coming from inside the house. There was also another judge who tried to do something named Chester B. Morosky, and he sent a letter to the county commissioners raising concerns about the detention costs, and he was transferred to a different court a few days later by Judge Michael Conahan, who was like one of the duos.

Wow.

Yeah.

And then there was Steve lud the county controller, and he leaked a state audit about the Center and how bad the deal was. But with that audit, the Center ended up filing a trade secrets lawsuit against Flood, and then Conahan sealed the suit to limit other documents from getting out. It was later overturned and we got the information. But like everybody's just fucking covering for each other.

Right, Like, how fucking crazy? And so for years though before this.

Youth advocacy groups complained that this prick was ridiculously harsh and trampled on these kids' rights. He was sending a quarter of his defendants to detention centers while the statewide average was one to ten. And you know, most likely these young kids were dealing with emotional or mental health issues, and then he ended up ripping them from their home while they're already like struggling in some sort of ways in the most critical years of their childhood and development.

So Robert J.

Powell was a wealthy personal injury lawyer and a longtime friend with Judge Michael Conahan and he wanted to know if he could get a contract to build a private detention center. Yes, my Google docs changed it to dental center. So then Judge Siverrella thought that he could help with this plan. So the two judges met and they put this all together. So first Sivirella put Powell in touch with a developer who was also an old friend of his named Robert Miracle to start working on finding a site.

Wow, dia Ballacle long.

I mean it took him years to get the plan in place, and like run for office and get these positions, get.

Like they are Diabolla call.

So they were paid to shut down, you know, the county center, and so the profits ones were the only options starting in two thousand and two. So then Judge Michael Conahan was the head of the county's court system also from two thousand and two to two thousand and six, so he had the power to close it all down.

I like love it.

They were pretty average guys, average people with lots of money. And it's like, yeah, you average pieces of shit. Like even the superintendent can be like they're trash. They're not people that have money like this, something's weird.

Yeah.

And in front of the condo there was a fifty six foot yacht and that belongs to Powell and he was spending a lot of time outside the condo of the judges, which is like what are you doing?

And get this. The boat was named Real Justice. R ee l. I'm about to fucking throw something across the room. Yeah, with your pun boat yacht name, you stupid piece of shit. Well, putting eight year olds in jail Real Justice ha ha. It's like Sandoval and Schwartz, just like in front of everyone's face. Oh my god.

Wow.

With the boat.

Though, they had to renew the slip lease and he refused and there was a fight. So then like this is how petty and crazy these people are. So he set up a motion about the slip fight. But in Luzern County in Pennsylvania, I don't even know how you're allowed to do that, not in Florida. So then the marina's lawyer couldn't get to Pennsylvania in time with one day notice, and so then they lost the case of

So that is good news.

The Juvenile Legal Center then partnered with some pro bono council and filed a federal class action lawsuit on behalf of the children and parents. So that was going after the judges, the private facilities, the co owners, developers, everyone, and those judges were ordered to pay more than two hundred million dollars. So it's one hundred and six million in compensatory damages and one hundred million in punitive damages to nearly three hundred people. Because it was only the

Wow.

Yeah, Like the initial case was set forth like two thousand and nine when it could, but it did not settle till twenty twenty two.

At that point, those kids are like in their mid twenties probably adults.

Yeah, yeah, like they're going to see a small fraction of that money.

But basically, the judge the calculations were every plaintif was going to get a base rate of one thousand dollars for each day of wrongful detention, and then an adjusted amount after that, like per case. Looking into it years prior, though sorry I'm bouncing a little bit, the builder and the owner of the private lockups already settled their cases

They should be charged for murder.

US District Judge Christopher Connor ruled on all of this after hearing from two hundred and eighty two people who were children that were fucked up by these guys, and then thirty two parents. Connor said to the AP in quotes, they recounted his harsh and arbitrary nature, his disdain for due process, his extraordinary abruptness, and his cavalier and boorish behavior.

In the courtroom end quote, and I wrote cocky fuck.

But like a lot of the lawyers and everyone involved in the case are like, yeah, the money, But it's also just like vindication too, you know, of all of this, and like the recognition something wrong happened is a victory. Also, Siverrella did write a letter to his former colleagues. I don't buy, I don't care, but this is according to NBC News, and in it he wrote, I have disgraced my judgeship. My actions have destroyed everything I worked to accomplish,

Conahan.

He's old and he got more than seventeen years in prison, but in twenty twenty he was released to home confinement with six years left on his sentence because of COVID. He was high risk. I don't care about him, but yeah, he had some issues. He had hard issues and Ghoul and Bear do you know this, Jullian Bear, Julian Bear. I feel like I've heard this. It's when your immune system attacks your nerves or something like that. But he had high blood pressure, he had a lot of like

Yeah, you know what I mean.

It's the ever after punishment. I don't know if you remember the Drew Barrymore Angelica Houston moment.

And no I don't, but I've never seen that you've never seen ever after. No, it's so good care.

And that's wild because I'm a huge I'm a huge Angelica Houston fan.

She's so evil and good and that the costumes are insane. Leonardo da Vinci is a character wildly like just the guy Drew Barrymore's friends with, but also are Queen Melanie Lynsky, Oh my god.

But it's you know, it's a play on Cinderella. I'm sure you know that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, So basically like at the end, you know Cinderella, Drew Berymore gets the Prince, everything's great, but

Bitches, you know.

Yeah, and it's just like cool because Drew Bermer still gets to be like, yeah, just treat you in the loving, amazing way that you treated me, and yeah, so fuck this guy when she died of COVID in the jail, okay, and the New York Time piece like that. I read one of the pieces I read, and this is like

There's just like.

Needs to be oversight as well for these like judges, for people that are in power, Like nobody should have any carte blanche. Like no one's gonna let a surgeon just keep killing people, you know what I mean, Like there's going to be a review board that's like, what's up, dude, You've been killing a lot of people, you know. I mean that's kind of what happened in one season of Doctor Death. But like, you know, these I don't know.

Yeah?

Road Track I wonder if they could take random visitors, because I'm sure they're lonely, Like I'm sure they would want to meet us if we showed up, like even if we were mean and we just said fuck you, we hate you and left, and they're like put.

Five dollars in my commissary at least, like before we leave.

I mean to like take a girl, lock her up for something she probably didn't do anything bad for it, and then taking her dead dad's social Security checks to guard Like what the fuck are you doing? It's not even real, and like we have a because I remember I was at the stage and I was talking about how like I probably talked about it on this podcast. But in Finland, the nice hotel we stayed at was uh an old jail, and it had a jail theme and people are like eugh, and it's like yeah, but

They don't look like the ones here. No, no, So I don't know. We are addicted to incarceration.

So many people are imprisoned, and I wish people got to go to school more. And I just don't understand how the neighborhood you live in, those taxes go to your school, so if you're poor, you get a bad school.

Sorry, that's the way it is, Like I don't get that. Yeah, like how did that start?

Like how like that must have been a race thing, because that's the end of the day, that's the whole thing with our country. It's like we would rather have like make black people get nothing then improve white people's lives. It's like, you know, like education used to be affordable and then so many black people were going to college that Reagan then made it expensive to keep black people out of college.

But it's like, okay, well now everyone care.

Like that's what I mean, Like as like right wing white people are they would rather keep their lives terrible than have a black person has Like okay, yeah, yeah, I'm sure it sounded crazy, but like I keep reading more and more stuff about that, but it's like they would rather punish black people than improve their lives in any way. Yes, yes, I hear that, And that's how I feel in terms of schools, Like how did that even start? The amount of taxes you pay, and that

Like to pay taxes based on your income. So obviously Richard towns have better schools. And yeah, I don't know when that all started. We're about to improve our listeners' lives with an amazing guest that I think is really really make you guys happy.

So don't go anywhere.

This is an all time legendary episode, I would say all time.

Oh my gosh, today's guest. We are so excited. This has been a long time in the making. You might know him as Mickey Milkovich on Showtime Shameless, or maybe even as Michael Lane in the film Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but we know him as the CSU tech that you love to hate, Dale Stucky. Please enjoy our chat with the one and only nol Fisher.

Oh my god, Stucky, Oh my gosh, so great to meet you. I can't believe we finally are talking to you. This is so great.

We did it too.

So I'm Kara.

I'm friends with Clint and Tony who you know sing your praises, And my husband and my son were just at little Cash's birthday party last weekend and apparently it was a real rager out of my gym.

We have no mutuals. But I'm a shameless girl. So I've been following you enough. Yeah, I mean, what's so wild? No, Like, are you familiar with the fury and attention your character has in the SVU fandom?

Not a lot, A little bit. I know that he was. While I was doing it, I was like, this dude's annoying. This guy's very annoying. So, you know, I feel like I feel like if people were annoyed, maybe I did my job.

Yeah, yeah, I know you you didn't nail it. Were you a killer the whole time? Or did you have a mental break?

I don't know, it's hard to say, you know, Like it's that joker thing, right, it takes one bad day or something like that. I think he seemed like a guy who was pretty unstable to begin with, you know what I mean. Likes there's a lot of a lot of the early scenes where he's the way he speaks so casually about dead bodies and murdered people and stuff. Is it's just sort of like it's a red flag, you know.

What I mean, it's just a concerning Yeah, there's some parts where he's smart, but he just has like no emotional intelligence at all. It feels I don't even know how this worked out because I don't know where you were in your career when you got this part. But like, did they tell you this is going to be like a for a recurring or was it like one and then they just liked you and kept bringing it back?

Like how did this work?

Like go, it was a recurring from the start, I didn't know where the recurring was going to end, Okay, So I entered it just being like, okay, well I don't I don't know quite where he's where he's going to land. But yeah, they said it was an interesting arc.

And it was.

It was I think nine I want to say, oh yeah, yeah, nine something around there. I mean, I grew up was born in eighty four, so I'm like right in that in the heart of like the original Law and Order, like you know, when it was like just huge. I grew up watching it. I was a big fan of it, and uh, and then it was you know, not early on in my career, but it was definitely one of those things like, oh, I get to go and like I'm gonna go doing a law and order you know thing.

I mean, to be a fan of law and Order and get that kind of an arc is wild.

It was a lot.

You get to be on the law enforcement, you get to be with the detectives, and then you get to really go wild and make and make out with Benson.

That that said kisses are weird. I like that scene was so big. It's such a big scene, right, Like there's so much and we probably spent four hours or more like just recording all the different pieces of it. And you know, I'm in the my characters stuck. He's in the middle of a breakdown. Is he is off

I think she's only kissed like five people in the history of the show. Like, she does not kiss people. Even there's like people that she has relationships with where there's like forehead kisses and like hugs and like she doesn't do a ton of making out.

So she really you really got you know, saved it up for the psychopath, you know what I mean, Like that's who you want to that's who you want to be making.

Out of it and to beat the shit out of Stabler. I mean, so we have a running thing between us. How Benson realizes because you go, oh, me and Stabler are having sushi, and she knows that would never be the case.

What is your sushi?

Like if someone says, like if someone was like, hey, I'm with Noel doing this they were like, oh, he's kidnapped, we have to call nine one one.

Oh, like you'd never be doing it. There's no way this is him. He is kidnapped. He would never say this. Like for me, it's like, I don't drink coffee.

So if somebody called Lisa was like, oh, Kara's just out grabbing a coffee, she'd be like she's dead.

I would know. You know something's happening.

How do you how do you operate? I don't have that at all. I don't understand that at all. My whole life is wrong. Caffee.

She likes full fat coke, that's her thing.

Yeah, if I need a burst, if I need it, if I'm really dragging, I'll do a full fat coke.

You want that, You want that sugar, that sugar hit nice.

She is lying.

It's not only when it's dire. She does want it. You don't have to force it. Oh yeah, but I'm trying. I'm actually trying to quit it this year.

Really do twenty twenty four. No more coke?

Yeah, no more cokes for me. Look, it's too much. I'm just having them whatever I want now. It used to just be for a jolt.

Yeah, I had to put a stop to it anyway, So what is yours? What is yours?

Like someone your wife calls and they go, Noel's doing this, and she's like, this isn't right, you know.

Like you know, the first thing that comes to mind is probably like watching any sporting event. Oh yeah, someone was like, Noel's I'm with Noel. We're watching the Super Bowls. Be like is he tied up? Like what's what's going on? What's happening. Not that I don't like sports. I like sports, I just don't like watching them very much. I don't. I don't. I don't really understand it.

I'm with you.

I that would actually probably be one of mine too, Like Kara's just watching a hockey game, like I'm dead.

Yeah, playing them playing football hockey great, but watching Yeah, but.

You like a good time.

I feel like if there was a gathering and someone was like, she's at the hockey party, I'd be like, okay, yeah, if there's a part.

Yes, yes, if there is. Yeah. It would more just be like if if me and a lone friend, you know, if someone called my lone friend and you know, you were trying to suss out if I was kidnapped, they.

Probably get yeah, yeah, it would be. I have a question and it is was bing bang Bong in the script or did you improvise that?

No, that was in the script. That was in the script. That's yeah. That was the first flag, like, oh he's irritating. Okay, he's going to be this guy all right?

Cool? Cool.

If we ever post about you or anything or like do any like or talk about you, people always write.

Bing bang bong in the comments. It's like a very big it's a very big couchphrase for you.

Well, and then you are very beloved because we did make when we first started a fun meme with Stucky and then people are like Stucky and then people go, he is so talented, Nola is an incredible actor. How people really come into and we're like, yeah, we know they can separate you from the Stucky.

Yes, yeah, yeah yeah, well again, if my goal is to irritate done, yeah yeah, I know.

It all high energy, like no sympathy or empathy for the people. Yeah, it's a real wild and shady.

I was just gonna say, anybody you know in real life that you kind of drew from to do your like little Stucky annoyances and mannerisms you got like a cousin that's got a stucky vibe or anything.

No, not really, No, it was more just like the writing of the character was really he's very much on the page, like he's very kind of when you're reading, you're kind of like, oh, okay, this is just like

You're going to like this episode Crush, he's looking at a picture of like a fifteen year old.

A girl and he's like she's smoking hot, Like I don't.

Even really, I didn't even remember that. Oh yeah, man, red flags all over for this guy.

Well, because Kragan's usually chill. Dan Floriic and he even got in your face. I feel like he shoves you in Zebra's or something where he's like get.

Out of here.

Yeah, yeah, he or I was welcome pretty quickly, you know.

But also your episodes are so iconic, like such cool guest stars Hillary Duff, you got Carol Burnett, Judith Lee, like so many cool actors.

Yeah. I actually I was listening to the I don't know if you've released it yet or not, but the Matthew Lillard interview did oh we had Oh yeah, that was so funny because I was, again eighty four. I was again like my teen years were right when Scream kind of came out and all that. That was like a big kind of I was part of that. Oh man, this movie is so cool and he was so good

That's awesome. And Hillary Duff.

I think that was your first episode, right, is that the first Valerie selfish?

Oh? Vallerin is the first one where we meet Stucky.

I think it's because he goes in he's like, this happened, this happened, this happened, and this happened. And then they're like, well actually or maybe now.

The window the windows? Is that the window scene? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't actually know that I met Hillary Duff.

Oh too bad.

No, I must have. I must have.

The Hillary Duff one is when like you're digging for a baby and then you're just like you just are like I think I got something lacking. This is more archaeological stuck.

Yeah yeah, yeah, he's come away from the tr X bones.

Man.

That guy just no chill.

So Matthew Lillard was nice. You guys had some moments.

He was great. I mean it was really it was a quick, little interaction. But I just remember he was very very kind and very kind of like, you know, his sort of enthusiastic self, you know, from from what I could tell, Scream is so good.

That was that was exciting.

Now you're in a lot of fandoms like s View is Shameless such a strong group? Twilight Final Destination? What are people coming? Can you tell what people are when they come up to you? Are you getting recognized? Has anyone that yelled at you for being stucky on the street or is it mostly shameless?

Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it's because I've done I've done some other stuff in New York. I did both of the the not the most recent Turtle movie, but the motion Capture and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movies. I was one of the Turtles, and so I like got to spend a lot of time in New York over two different summers, which was awesome. But yeah, I got a lot of like going into Cobye shops, I'd get a like hey, bing bang bom, like like oh yeah,

What is that?

I know your face kind of thing, and then it.

Comes out that it's that, I mean, a groundbreaking character.

Yeah, it was really fun that the right I always say, the writers on Seamless really gave him a really beautiful arc and it was such a cool thing to be a part of it. Yeah, I was very very happy how that turned out.

Are you friends with me? Are you guys all connected?

Like yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean because your.

Girl Shanola is killing it and watching her on Found I can't get enough. And then obviously Jeremy Allen White is like, dude, the bear is so good, Calvin Klein, Emmy of it all, it's just so fun. You're all doing great. But yeah, I love Found Founds great.

Chanola's one of the loveliest people. She's just like wonderful. I don't know. There are certain people that kind of have like endless energy and are just like extra greamely caretaking and like loving with everyone they interact with, and she's one of those people. She kind of is, Yeah, pretty cool. And then Jeremy obviously is. I mean, Jeremy's so talented, He's always been super talented, and he's like just a just a really good dude, just a very

It was such a good show. Well, he's been an s VU I forgot. Carl has been an s v O. Ginger Cameron has been on one, and the Tall One, the Kevin. Yes, have you seen any of their episodes?

No, I haven't. I have seen stills of of Ethan's. He's he's a little he looks like a low murder. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what his episode was about, but he looks like a little killer.

Oh no, it's born psychopath and then what is it death? Like he's brought back like he's a psychopath, but then they release him when he turns twenty one because of juvenile laws and then he kills his family and like goes nuts.

Bad call, bad call, and released there.

But it was cool because they had the actor when he was so young and then they brought him back like ten years later and like felling. You know, shows don't always have the ability to do that, so I thought it was that was a cool art for him.

But you should watch Howie's too, because what intent.

It's like a double catfish where he thinks he's meeting up with he's an famous MMA fighter. He thinks he's meeting up with someone who has a rape fantasy because someone catfished them, and then he does assault the person, but he has the text to prove and it's like kind of a wild case, but he ends up being a really good guy.

I don'tkay, you know, try to help someone with a fantasy went very, very wrong.

I'm surprised the USA Network has it done like a shameless marathon for so many of you, you know, because they'll do like Orange is the New Black marathons, where like it's all the people from Orange who have done the show, and there's a lot of you shameless guys in there too.

Yeah.

Well, we had someone on I forgot his name, the flute player who's the floutest Zach McGowan.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, another really good dude. That show was really cool. Yeah. McGowan's great man that he's got the craziest voice I've ever heard. His voice is awesome. It's just like if his voice was like it's down on the floor, it's so low.

You're like, oh man, Yeah, he seemed manly and he's like, yeah, I just like eat steaks and do pull ups and have beer and we're like nice.

But he yeah, I remember he was when we were doing Shame a shameless episode in Chicago. We would go to Chicago like to block shoot out that exteriors on the show, and and uh and I remember it was like I think it was maybe fall time we were there, and he was he was really into like barefoot running at the time, and he would just go out there and like run maybe he had I think it was barefoot and it was just I was like, oh, oh man, you go for it. That's Chicago. That's Chicago. That's cold Chicago.

Yeah. He plays a famous floutist who gets drugged and commits a crime.

All right, like a famous floutest.

I like that.

That's what we joke about.

Yeah, Joe Cusack did say no, but one day, one day, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna collect.

All the shameless people, like we have the Oranges the New Black People.

Oh nice, there you go. So many people have been on lawn Order like you. I mean that that that must just be like an endless list.

No, for sure, it is. This is so thrilling.

We get to talk to really cool people where we're like very happy that we get to do this.

How was it being a Ninja Turtle? You did mention?

It was fun? It was super fun. I mean again, I grew up a kid of the eighties, so I grew up I was Hinja Turtles as a as a kid, and then getting to do that was Yeah, that was pretty that was pretty special.

It was fun.

Hell yeah.

We had another guy on our podcast, Josh Pie, and he was in the one that like we watched as kids, the one with like Corey Feldman, and then oh yeah, he was actually in the outfit suit some of them it was just the voice and some of them did the voice and they were in the suit. And he said he was in the suit and they would like glue on the head every day and then they would all get so hot and they'd have to like, I mean, it's like we've come a long way.

I think in terms of.

Fathom breaks must have just been a nightmare that must have been.

So bad, like the costuming and cgi and all that has come a long way. I was obviously poking around on your Instagram. I saw you a beautiful wife who's also an actor as well. Yeah she is, Ye did a little who did a part on Shameless as well, I think like for a couple of episodes.

Yep.

So we always ask.

People when we interview them, like when they're married to somebody who's also in the business, like do you guys like to work together? Do you help each other with auditions and stuff, or do you kind of try to keep it okay?

Yes, Leila is the only reason I actually have I booked Shameless funny enough, like she were really we're yeah, we're each other, She's we were each other's coaches, and you know, so every every time you see me or her on anything where you know the other person's pretty intricately involved. I had an audition for Shameless, and I was working on a guest star on Light to Me, and I was doing an episode on that and I couldn't make the I had a test with John Wells.

Wow. Yeah that's so cool.

While you were talking about Crazy, the actress who played your sister's also been on Shameless and she is actually the birth mother of Mursco Hargate say like Benson's adopted son in the series.

Really she has a very tragic she's Ellie Porter Caro. Oh. Yeah, I'm like, who are we talking about. She's your sister on the show on Shame list at right?

Gotcha?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, they just keep popping up. I'm so sorry.

No, it's all good. I get confused myself because I did I did Law and Order, but I also did a guest spot on Criminal Intent as well, So yeah, it's a little you know, there's there's lots of these shows. There's so many of them.

What did you do in Criminal Intent?

Who are you the son of a a rock star? Basically? And the episode is me finding out that I'm the son of this rock star. The actor was Michael Massey, I think, and lovely guy, and he kind of plays like a you know, like an Aerosmith typer, like a Mick Jagger type kind of character.

And I was just gonna say it sounds like liv Tyler finding out later in life that she was Stephen Tyler's yes daughter.

It was.

It's that kind of a thing. But yeah, that was that was I think that was my first I think I did that before.

Yeah, yeah, I think according to your IMDb that was a little bit before.

Yeah.

Did casting just know you and bring you in for Stucky or did you audition for Stucky?

I did not audition for Stucky. That was an would offer only stuck you offer, Yeah, which was really cool. I think that was like my first offer as I have this is not that I'm down.

I like this, this makes me have Yeah, it's like, in retrospect, we should have known something was going to go down with you because no csu text. I mean, we've they've got they do a little joke here and there, but we don't really they don't have much of a personality. They're kind of just there to feed information into the scene. And then in comes this guy who's got like this

Yeah, I mean like, do you remember when you got the script for that, were you like what?

Yeah, yeah, I kind of knew. I mean like again, you know, any anytime you have a character saying, hey, check out this hilarious dead baby I found is you know you're sort of like, well, maybe you know something something's off with this dude. But yeah, when I saw that the depth that he goes to, he's at them murdering judges or trying to murder judges, and like he's yeah,

And you try to murder Judith Light, who's like an iconic judge and you know, is a big like a recurring person on SVU and uh, kind of a ballbuster.

I mean she because she humiliates you.

He's trying to take apart the universe.

I was getting humiliated by Judith Light. Was that fun?

Well, getting basically his whole his whole arc is just getting humiliated over and over again by basically everybody interacts with, right, So it's kind of like, all right, this is just another person. Fine, I guess I'll start killing people, you.

Know, perfect. Hopefully this isn't a weird question.

We stalk the IMDb, we do the research, and some of your early credits from Freddy Got Fingered and a guy thing you were pimply manager and Acne face team.

What the hell?

Yeah, well, I mean I was going through I was going through a part of my life.

You know.

No, that's the worst is that they couldn't give you a name.

Geez No, that was from my Vancouver days and so you know, it's a lot of the a lot frequently, not always, but frequently, you know, American show comes, and a lot more of the kind of the co stars and like the supporting characters are are are going to be Vancouver based and so yeah, those were some of my some of my earlier credits. I think in one of them, I think a guy thing. I think they

You don't really think about the the tribulations of being a teen actor.

Yeah, you think about the skin. Well, your skin looks incredible, So.

It's improved somewhat since Freddy got fingered and being acne manager or whatever.

Guy you're on the other side of it.

Yeah, yeah, I made it.

What was the moment where you knew you had to move to La or the States? How long were you acting in Canada.

I had my first I had my fourteenth birthday on my first job. So I've been doing it since I was, you know, slightly before fourteen. And my mom is American, She's from Ohio, and so basically I sort of figured I didn't. It wasn't like a conscious decision I like I have to go now. It was more just sort of like, okay, well, there's there's a fairly specific This isn't always the case, but sometimes there's a ceiling in

Yeah, The Riches was great. I watched that back in the back when it was on. I loved that.

It was fun and you probably get to breathe, like, fuck, I'm a series regular.

I can like chill for a moment in time.

Yeah, a little bit. I have somewhat of a for an incredibly unstructured, you know, career path that sort of allows a little bit of kind of like oh no, you have like a ninety five minute like that. You have like a good job, I know.

Yeah, it's so nice. You didn't have to do the paperwork.

So many Canadian performers, I know, it's really like so much paperwork, so much cash, so many years.

So that's fucking awesome.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a big bureaucratic, you know process to get Thursday. Yeah, I'm a greatful I didn't have to do that one.

And have you gone back to Vancouver on like a job you book in the US ever to like film.

Yeah, only twice. I have only booked two jobs. They did a month of the Twilight movies.

Yeah, those were all up there, right, yeah.

Well, the bulk of it was actually Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Oh yeah, yeah it was.

It takes place in like Seattle or Washington State, right, yeah.

Yes, I think I think we were in bat Us because it was especially the movie, the one that I was on. The final too. They shot as one movie and it was mostly soundstage. There was just like it was like even even that whole I don't know if you either you're familiar with the movies, but there's a huge snow battle sequence at the end of the whole of the whole series, and that whole field was in a sound stage with Fate snow for a month.

In Lousu Woa in Louisiana. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, last place I would expect interesting.

But then but then I went back to Vancouver for like a few I think I had like three days and I got to hang out there for a few weeks, which was which is always fun.

Well, Yeah. What's that hotel we stayed in it.

What's the like famous hotel where all the actors stay, the Sutton Place.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I have been there as well.

It's so cool anytime I'm there that I feel like there, I'm always looking for actors, like I want to see something.

You go out to the bar, you go down to the bar, You're going to rend it somebody.

Yeah, it's nice there.

Yeah, it's a good little I like my city. Vancouver's fun. Vancouver's a good little, good little, good little town.

I had a great brunch there. Yeah, it's so beautiful. We wanted to say. I wanted to stay there longer.

Anything you are working on now that you are excited about, Yeah, that's what I want to know.

What's the current project.

I just got done doing my first little comedy horror movie called Cognitive, which is really fun. It's going to be a totally insane movie, but it's gonna be a lot It's gonna be very a lot of laughs, a lot of kind of craziness, which is blood of Blood.

Oh cool. Yeah, that's fun. Keep an eye out for that.

I love comedy horror so much and I'm so glad people are making it.

It's having a real moment.

Yeah, it's good. It's a good comble of a murder and laughter. You know, again back to stuff. It's very stucky.

Yes, yes, very stucky, very stuffy. Did you meet Neil Bear on set, like I mean the showrunner? No, no, no, no, I did not, because we miss him.

In the humor that he put in those earlier seasons.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's like today there would not be a Stucky on the show. Like the current seasons, they would never have a Stucky, you know, like they allowed for a smidge of campiness.

I feel in the earlier seasons they've.

Gone a little they've gone a little more more dark. I think everything's gone a little more dark.

Though.

It feels like the tone of most stuff is a little more, a little more hardcore.

Yeah.

Do you have any other like little memories of shooting these episodes, any any interactions with iced tea, anything, any tea you want to spill like tell us.

Yeah, I have.

I have a couple of a couple of good memories. Uh so the big scene, that big final scene, I got to you know, I'm very excited to be part of this thing. I'm all all amped up to do my big kind of you know, crazy scene, and I get there in the morning and I get pulled into

That seems such a weird choice for them, Like why put it on the corner.

Why I think it was above his kind of heart.

Because you have to pop the thing, so it has to be a knife.

Oh my, yeah it was.

It was. And it wasn't like it wasn't like they had they had like a dull down one. But it's still knife, you know what I mean.

Yeah it was.

It was still it was pointy. It was pointy enough to go in, you know what I mean.

So it was and he's like the number one on the call sheet. You don't want to stab the star?

Yeah exactly, this is real. Yeah, this is you know, this is however many fifteen years ago or whatever, and I'm like, oh man, I don't want to stab Christopher Maloney. I really don't want to stab Christopher Maloney. I feel like that would not go well at all.

Oh my gosh.

Like in the same shoot, you have to like kiss one star of the show stab the other star of the show.

That must have been a stressful work week.

It was. It was a day. It was a big day.

But you know that's what I signed up for or day. Yeah, they probably happened on the same day.

Yeah, this is just like a like a me being an idiot story. But but Marishki is really lovely. Right, She's a very very warm person. I'm sure everyone else that you've interviewed has kind of said the same thing. Very professional, very inclusive. And so she runs a charity for it might be sex workers.

It's a Joyful Heart Foundation.

Yes, yes, yes, and she does everything.

They do a lot of stuff they do like testing of rape kits, they do victim services, I think, and what's that when you tell people about stuff advocacy?

Yes, so you know, she invited me like this then all the recurring you know, actor guy, she invited me to they were having one of their big charity events. And as I said, this was I think my second time ever in New York, and I just wasn't This was before kind of like Google Maps was really much of a thing, and and I just sort of like she invited me, and I was like, Okay, should I should go? This is lovely? What a nice thing I want? It sounds like a cool charity, Like let me go

Yeah, that's how Stuck. You would have shown up. Stucky would have walked in and been like, sorry, liv got caught in a rainstorm and like high fived everyone.

Shake himself off like a dog, and like, you know, get water everywhere.

Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. Oh my gosh, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for talking to us a dream.

Thank you, yeah, of course, yeah, thank you for actually making this happen. I'm sorry it took so long. When I'm glad we finally got it.

We were determined you're a busy guy. We totally get it. Yeah, yes, that was my god. I love conversation. Oh my gosh, he was sweet.

We waited and waited and we finally got him. And I'm so glad we finally talked to Stucky.

Like what a thrill? What a thrill?

And I do love that people do say bing bang bong to his face every day of his life and he needs I like that.

Don't be scared to do it if you see him, I mean, don't don't go up to him when he's like in a serious conversation with someone. But if you have the opportunity presents itself, please do bing bang bong him. Let's get into I don't know, let's get into our post mortem. I don't know how we uh talk in these kind of cases really boil our blood the most.

It's really wild that these people like ruined thousands of children's lives without a care in the world.

Yeah.

No, nothing, like I've never been so happy with the jail sentence in my life.

Yeah.

Because the thing is is like, sure, there's judges taking kickbacks for like real estate development version shit like that. Okay, Like I guess, I mean fuck those guys too. I'm sure ultimately that trickles down and hurts people. But this is like you're actively just looking children in the eye and being like I'm going to ruin your life. It is sociopathic. It's really really sad and fucked up.

I mean, I would love to have this type of money, so I'm not saying it like that, but that's it's not even that much money. Yeah, two point eight million dollars for thousands of kids, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, you can buy maybe a two bedroom in LA, you know what I mean. Like it is a lot of money.

I think all of our lives would change with two point eight million dollars. But it's not a deal with the devil kind of money that you're doing. You know, I understand ruining a few kids' lives for a hundred mil, But like, what are we talking about here?

Shutting down facilities?

I mean and the people that knew and we should just not give judge that much power, is what I'm learning. I'm just I think I'm against lifetime appointments and judges and any of that.

Yeah, it is like crazy, I just did vote for our judges here in LA. And I mean I go off of these progressive groups. I think most people probably a skip that part. Like I don't think a lot of people are heavily invested into judge races and we probably should be. Yeah, I mean, because they are elected in a lot of cases, unless it's you know, Donald Trump just putting in whoever the fuck he wants.

Well, yeah, I'm threatening bloodshed. I mean, I just don't know how people are not more terrified. But maybe they're disassociating like a lot of us.

Like, I don't know.

Well, I also keep reading in my newsletter that Biden has a ton ton of money for this campaign, and Trump's like kind of being a little bit more tight

I don't know, I don't trust.

I just I feel if you're still thinking about Trump, you're not smart enough to understand where what your money is going to.

I know, like, what if you're still on his side?

I don't know of giving money for the Stormy Daniels case, is the straw that breaks the camel's back, Like I just I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, who knows. I think he's lost people. I do think he's lost people, but who knows. Of course, there's also a bunch of kids who have become eighteen since the last election and probably like him because of their parents or whatever their values. Yes, but I heard a lot of gen Z like are actually the other way, Like they've lost hope. They don't want to go anywhere, they don't do anything, they don't want to vote, they

Yeah, who knows. I hope they vote.

We gotta get we gotta We're gonna be postcarding for gen Z. We're gonna be like sending gen Z postcards out being like please get out of bed, put down TikTok and go vote, please please please please. I mean TikTok might be fully banned me. I mean, let's talk about that next week. For now, let's get into our What would Sister Peg Do? This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization, blog, post, documentary, podcast episode, something that gives you more info about what

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