Closure (Part I & II)

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done.

Yay, that's messed up an sv podcast.

We're here. My name is Lisa Trager and I'm Kara Klank. And you know the drill on this pod. It's SVU, it's true crime, it's guests, and it's chatting, and it's movie reviews. And I did see one battle after another and I fucking loved it good.

Yeah.

I mean I have not heard one person not like it. Eve very Quarterrarians of the world, and I'm I can't wait to see it. It's just been gorgeous in New York. I know, I'm sure it's been between seventy five and eighty. I've been out in the streets, like I cannot sit in a movie theater at the moment, and I live by them. I smell the popcorn I want in, but I can't. I have to enjoy every moment.

Yeah.

The thing is is like it's two hours and forty minutes, but you don't notice at all, Like it goes like it.

It is well paced. It is a good movie. Like and I hear.

Imax, I think I'm gonna do the Imax or the thirty five millime. I'm gonna do something, you know that that the people are saying to do.

I don't.

And I'm not even like a big pt Anderson fan. Like I like some stuff.

I love that what you say nothing just like the PTA of it all is funny to me. Yeah, the New DA makes me laugh.

I'm I'm on the PTA, but I'm not for the PTA, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't.

I I don't know what Like I love Phantom Thread, I didn't like Liquorice Pizza. I mean there's He's very up and down for me, this movie rocks. It's really like an It reminds me of just like a nineties classic that we you could watch like a bunch of times.

Case you haven't seen it yet either. He hasn't.

Oh oh, I also heard Teyana Taylor did like ninety nine percent of her own stunts too.

Is what I hear. They said, watch out Tom Cruise is what I was. I'm hearing. She's good.

Her Her career trend trajectory has been so crazy.

Like yeah, I mean she came out as the baddest bitch we've ever seen, and I guess continues to do it.

I kind of. I think it's been quite consistent.

No, but like music videos, reality and now like a big.

Blockbuster like or not even blockbuster.

Big like you know sort of thing movies like I don't know She's I had no idea Sean Penn was in it, and then I saw the movie. I was like yeah, and then I was like remembering. I was like, oh man, he like is bad right, Like he he's an example of My husband always has this theory of pre too. I think I've talked about it on this podcast, like if you got like in trouble for like beating a woman or doing something bad before the Me Too era, it's almost like they're like, well, we're not talking about

Because it was like, girl, I was just getting my eyebrows wax and Mariah Carey was playing so I just was like to the girl, like, oh have you seen Mariah's doing all this press. She's being more open and silly than she usually is. So we start talking about Mariah. She goes, I need to see her. I go she does Christmas concerts every year, Like, what are you talking about? See her very easily, but she goes, yeah, I love concerts anytime.

Who was it was? It was Chris Brown and someone else.

She goes, I would never miss a Chris Brown show, and then she said another person.

And I had to be like, uh huh for sure?

And I go, so, you like, she's like, r Kelly, Chris Brown, I don't miss I.

Yeah.

I was like, I can't relate to that, but yeah, you know I didn't.

I don't know.

My friend was telling me this, like they are any nikey stuff. Oh my god, I've been following the Cardi and Nikki stuff. Is fucking dark as hell. Anything's into it. It's really fucking dark. Like I'm so surprised. I mean not that I know that there isn't, but I'm like, how is there not a publicist like or an agent being like stop now, this is this is going nowhere.

But I guess they're like unstoppable.

Well, people like Cardi because she's funny and cool, so I think her like she's not going to listen. And then a Nikki, I think she's like hard to work with. Like I think the people that work around her with her are probably not like people to let her know what's up.

Yeah, yeah, that's I mean.

I will say when I met Nikki, she was very nice, but that was for two minutes once.

But drag Race maybe like works. I don't know.

I just yeah, on drag Race, I don't know if she has They've definitely saying they've definitely like lip syncs to her.

But yeah, like yeah, I don't know. I just I googled it and it said, oh, she was All Stars seven in twenty twenty two. Okay, I guess she was. She served as a judge for Snatch Game. It says, but that's ai. I don't know if it's true. Why don't you do minus AI? I don't understand. Why are minus AI? I try to do that and it didn't work. Oh it works for me? Yeah, I don't know. I tried to do that. It doesn't whatever my settings are,

I like it.

This is the thing, so I really like it. It kind of is reminiscent to me of like old like Abba and like ace of bass vibes for a little bit of it, like I like it, so Opalite's my favorite. I love the single The Fate of Ophelia. I think

I really do like it.

But.

I listened to the I listened to the whole thing, which I never do when albums first come out, Like I usually like wait for the singles to hit me, you know, and what is embarrassing at the end of the day is really made me cringe, Like I was also.

Cringing, like you're doing.

A song about Olivia Rodrigo. This girl is fifteen years younger than you. What are you doing?

Is that? What that about father Figure is about Olivia Rodrigo.

Oh and Charlie XCX coke thing is just like I hate how self referential she is and how slighted she feels that anything. And it's like people are allowed to talk shit about you, like you're such a fuckaire, You're such a baby.

It just it bothers me. I didn't like the movie cash Grab of it All.

I don't like how desperate she's being about beating Adele's record, like I.

Got all I'm hearing is like a.

Lot of like that, like even from Swifties that are just like the consumerism is getting a little bit like fever pill.

I have the tape and yeah, I got a tape delivered yesterday. Oh way, a cassette. I ordered the cassette. How are you gonna play it? Well, I wasn't gonna play a record or a CD either, but it's tastes up the smallest amount of space.

Player. Oh cool, yeah, yeah, next time I bought like one of those.

I bought one of those like seven and one things that's like a record player, tape CD radio you know.

Anyway, I like it.

I can play my old mixes from high school because I'm a dinosaur.

But oh but it is so fun.

I I'm into wish like I'm into it, So I don't know, but going after because it's just But then someone mentioned like she's been depressed, like TTPD. She didn't want to do press because it was about like all these sad things. She's like, it's fun to see her happy and excited. Yeah, I like the outfits. I like all the things, but it's just.

Well the song Canceled was making me a little bit confused too. But I'll say I only listened to it like one time, and I mean kind of like you have you ever been canceled?

Has anybody around you been?

It's about Blake, It's about how she likes her friends canceled like she likes her friends on the edge, like it's something else. And then I heard a theory that it could be a reputation vault track that she added to this, but I don't think she would do that.

But I don't know. The Lamb the Sea. I like it, it's fun. I like the video.

I wish it wasn't all so serious in terms of the opinions we have to have. But I think if it is the worst album, I don't know.

But that's when you have.

That many romantic song because it's it sounds like a Weezer song to me, and I should love it.

But if it wasn't about Charlie, I would like it. I'm just embarrassed for like, I don't understand yeah, immaturity, Like eventually you do have to escape this. I'm a girl being picked on in high school mentality she has for some reason. It's like very frustrating as a fan to be a part of but my yeah album and.

You are thirty five years old, so yeah yeah, And then other people are like, so the man made you.

But it's like you're allowed to like because someone's like, babe, you shouldn't be gushing about a guy like this. You're thirty five. Its it'd be cutef you're twenty two, and it's like, well, she fell in love at thirty five, so like, why can't she h, No, I don't care about that gush.

Stupid, But I don't care about the gushing.

I mean a lot of dick illusions, Just a lot of dick illusions on that wood song, like a lot.

It's embarrassed singing about your husband, Like I don't get it, but yeah, open lie fado Ophelia, give it to me, put it in my veins. I also did go to the dune Dune Diner. Oh my gosh, tell me so. I had an amazing Saturday. I exit soul Cycle and I have a text for my friend Sofia, who's in town. We were supposed to meet up later in the day, and she goes, I'm in the line. It's a two hour wait get here, And I go, you know that stressed me out a meeting.

So I'm like, okay, I have to rush home.

I have to shower, I have to get dressed, and then I have to get to Rockefeller Center within two hours.

But I did it and Rockefeller Center. Sorry, Matt Rogers. Song.

Way have you seen the new less culture? Says clip that's been going viral with Malala. No, they're recording in like a new room and Bowen goes, hey, so we're not in our usual room. We did get booted for Malala.

And then Matt.

Rogers goes, yeah, you know, between Matt Rogers and Malala, you have to go with Malala and that's the role of culture. And then they start talking and Bowen goes, but if this was kickball, like I would be picked before Malala. And Malala ripped that audio and made a video of her at the gym doing leg day and it's all like, you don't know what Malala's legs are up to.

Oh my god, I love that. I'm obsessed. That's so funny. Yeah, it's so cool. So wait, so you have to get to a rockefella set up and then what Yeah? So I get there and it is. It was incredible.

I hope someone from the Sview universe is listening. The staff and people that were working were beyond. And you also got free stuff. I didn't realize it was all gonna be free. But you got like a free bagubag that said like a lead Squad and it was a mug and a choice of three hats. The food was free, the cookie was free, the coffee, like everything's included.

The fun little newspaper, the photo booth.

They're so patient, they want you to look at all the stuff, and then they stick to it. They're like, hey, detect dives and they sit you down, and when you do the trivia on the place mats, they're like, did you get a break in the case? Like they treat you like you're a detective. But then finally I asked one that the waitresses. I go, listen, girl, this is incredible. I go, you are all so friendly, You're so good at your jobs and committed, Like is this a marketing company?

Are you an outside events you? Are you an inshant? Like?

What is this? Are you hired actors? Is this NBC Universal? Who hired you? And she's stating characters. She wouldn't talk to me, she wouldn't give me the scoop. But I'm so curious because these people were elite as fuck. And on the way out, if you filled out a survey, you got a choice between another a T shirt or a bracelet. I got the bracelet. What would Olivia Benson do? But and then you can buy stuff, so like my friend bought the T shirt and I got the socks.

Yeah yeah, yeah that's a lot. And wait so you sit down and eat at the diner.

Yes, And not only that, like on the outside where you see like the dun Dawn and the stuff, employees are taking photos of you. They're like, you want some separate, some together, whatever you need right this way. Like I've just never seen such kindness from a free fan event, Like I don't know, I was really impressed. Yeah that's cool,

Cool look at me, I just know stuff.

Yeah, it was like a lot of photos an ode to Benson.

And if I knew.

It was all that, I would have like flown in for it, Like if I you know, like next year in the ball, if I know they're doing something for season twenty eight, I'm coming, I'm gonna fly out.

Because it's like it.

Was just a class act, like even without like seeing any of the slabs or anything, like they just really were so fan friendly.

But did you see any because like we had a listener that sent us like Marishka signing her thing and then she spelled her name wrong and she was like it's fine.

It's it's two ends, but it's fine.

She goes no girl, and she gave her another poster and was like, you got it. You should like speak up for spelling your name right, and like then they.

Took out a picture and everything. So I was wondering.

I'm sure she came for like an hour or two and then maybe other people came.

I was wondering if you saw anybody. No, there was no like, no one was there signing.

And that's what I mean, like just on its face, it's like such an actually cool fan event where you do not have to spend a dollar. Wow, you know what I mean, and you get all this stuff like I can't wait to wear my done Dune diner hat.

You know.

So if you guys have any scoop, I'm like, who put that together?

Wait?

Did anyone respond what our merch should be? Have we got any responses? It is a due day. I don't think we're gonna have a holiday merch.

That episode only came out today and so we've gotten a few, but it's a lot of stuff where people are like, oh, Benson's haircuts. Throughout the years, it's like somebody has done that, or somebody said wood room blinds and cement room bars, which we do sell pens on our live shows.

That one is what are our pens?

Our pens are ambitious and tipsy, cement room bars and dumb bitch bitch.

So I get them, dumb bitch.

I think we should get the dumb bitch socks back in rotation too. Would people wear like just a dumb bitch? No, those socks are awesome. Let's just let's just do dumb bitch socks and Christmas colors. I don't even think we need to do it in Christmas colors. Great, people are just gonna buy it for each other. Yeah, we're we're doing dumb bitch socks again. As we never sold them on the internet, did we on the show?

No?

We only sold them live at live shows. Great, we got our merch. It's dumb bitch socks. Put them in your cart.

I'm gonna think a little bit harder. So if anybody does, I'm.

Gonna think, well, by the time this episode comes out, we know, but it's like a few I know I'm going to think today I've been like I've been a little swamp, but like I want to think of something because I think that. And well, we were getting a lot of ideas, like people were like, please make a rape whistle and I was like I would love to, and they were like, or like make make a defense like a knife that says.

Do you have children, detective? And I was like, I don't know about Like, let's send an email. Like right, I'm sending an email right now. Can we have weapons? Can we make what?

They're gonna say, no, one weapons, But I bet a rape whistle is going to be okay, I'm just predicting.

Well with the rape whistle, say you did what you needed to to survive. Yeah, your god, that's so good. No, it's not.

No, not that it's like you did the only thing you had to do you survived or like some I mean that's okay. Wait, we got to think about that. We gotta we gotta work shop it.

But oh wait wait, So because this weekend was huge obviously with the Dunda and that inner and the Taylor swift of it, and I had six spots.

And uh and New York weather was popping. I mean, it's really a confluence of events.

You know.

I went to Union Square did I buy six prints from a woman where I have note? And she goes, so, what's up? You're just walking around? I go, yeah, I have spot pay ears one hundred dollars.

Do you want the money or not?

Bitch, here's a pair of dumb bitch sucks. Stop trying to downseell me.

I know it was crazy, but this is one of the best things that I've been waiting for my whole life. Did happen to me? I'm walking to my spot and I hear my name. I turn around and there's two young boys, like young men, sitting and one of them.

Goes, hey, you used to babysit me. Shut up, buck up.

He's twenty one years old now and I baby sat him in like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen when I was in New York.

Wait, back up nanny, Yeah, and ran down to the backup nanny kids.

Yeah.

So it was it was the family, because there's two families that like two boys like that. I really loved the kids, and this was one of them and his dad's an author and was a professor at Columbia and their apartment. I'm like, do you guys still love the apartment? He goes yeah, and he's like, and I live with my parents.

I'm not good. Like that apartment was incredible. But they were this great family.

He did ballet and like they took the train and they would break dance and like, I don't know, they were just like an amazingly smart, eccentric, cool family that got along and were hip and cool. And his friend was nice, and so we chatted. But then his friend had a little book car. He's like, hey, do you want a shot? And I go, well, I'm a grown woman, so it would be really crazy if I started drinking from your bookardi in the street.

But and then we.

Talked for a little longer, and I could tell he was like over and I go, I'm sorry, this is like longer a conversation than you wanted. But I really like loved your family. I thought you guys were so cool and like loving towards each other. And he goes, you were a really great babysitter. He goes, you showed us mean girls and see him punk clips. And I

He makes sculptures and they're really cool. So it's really exciting.

That's so funny because I was just yesterday I ran across an email from like some old mom I babysat for, just when I was like searching for something else. It was like, I wonder what those kids are up too, Like so many kids I baby step for are grown adults now, and I wonder what they're like. But that's crazy. I cannot believe because I'm curious what all these kids

But so is there hip hop classes?

Well yes, but this is a this is a half and half that he's in right now, so he half the classes ballet and like then he does hip hop, but it's it's very light hip hop, like they're doing K pop Demon Hunters. But he has decided on his Halloween costume and hold on, I want to send you the link in the chat because he like he was going back and forth between being the different K pop Demon Hunters, but now he's gonna be Glinda from Wicked. And the thing is, though, he spotted the costume that's

So I don't know.

I mean, I think he's just gonna I'm also like, I'm also just like low key nervous that he's gonna get a lot of kids. It's gonna be the first time that kids at school are gonna go, why are you dressed like a Why are you dressed like a girl?

Like?

You know what I mean? Because he wears that stuff around the house. No one has ever said anything to me wears it. What do you think what do you think his response will be.

I don't know.

I don't know, Like he is such a weird, like intuitive dude. I'm just kind of like, I wonder if he's gonna be like, yeah, no, And I said, so you're gonna wear this to school? I was like, this is what you're gonna wear for the parade, And everyone at school is gonna is gonna ask you who you are, and you're gonna say I'm Glinda, and he's like yep, yep, Like he's so excited about it. So I'm like, great, you know, I'm like, but I just like I have really been.

It's gonna be the moment that changes his life forever.

I've been at his school before and heard kids go, yo, bro, that's gay, and I've literally shot looks to fourth grade kids, and so I'm just making sure. I'm just like, you know, I'm just like tentative of like I hope no one says anything mean to him, you know, but he is four and he's.

Gonna they might. But he also seems like he's above it. I don't know.

I know, he's probably like not gonna give a fuck to be honest, Like I hope.

So, but he needs to pick a costume of a movie that's been out already. That's the big problem. The dress doesn't matter. It's like, bitch, the movie's not out, you can't I know. But he just saw it and he like loves the purple, you know what I mean, he could just have the dress.

I don't know.

Yeah, because if he wears the little if he wears the pink one. Dude, there's the consumerism is crazy. There's like an oz dust ballroom Glinda outfit, like I don't even remember what she was fucking wearing. There's a little stripey number that she wears when they all get there. There's and then there's the pink one, and it's like wild. There's so many costumes and they make the Glinda one for adults. I almost accidentally bought him an adult one yesterday.

Are you guys dressing up or are you doing? I think we like to do.

I think we have to because we're doing a trunk or treat for our kids' school. So it will depend on what the theme of the car is, like you know what I mean, if we do like a Pokemon car, we might like dress up like that because it's the parents are running it. So we'll see, we will see. I you know, I'm normally throw something together at the

What are you gonna be something?

Yeah, well, I'm performing in Baltimore, so you guys will see I'm gonna wear a different costume every night. Oh wait, what's the venue in Baltimore. I'm playing the Port Comedy Club. I was their last time. It's sam by the water Town. Okay, I was. It's gonna be fun.

I was like, please don't say Magoobi's House of Joke because it's just that the name of that place kills me.

So I'm gonna wear a costume Friday and one Saturday. But I did buy them from Dolskill. So they're the shortest sluttiest things I've ever worn. But I will be wearing them at the show.

Oh so you're not gonna say You're not going to say this is for Baltimore.

I know, I kind of wanted to be surprised. I guess it doesn't matter.

No, say after say after you can tell me off Mic and tell them after Sorry, you got to go to Baltimore if you want to see what slutty outfits Lisa's being I hope you're being like a slutty laboo boo.

That'll be kind of funny, all right.

Well, if you want to know more of Lisa's dates, go to That's Messed Up Live.

Tell your friends in the Amsterdam, Paris, Dublin, London come see me.

Or tell your friends, yes, tell your euro friend to get to your ass their asses to see. There's more Americans over there than ever. People are fleeing. Tell your friends to go to see Lisa. If you want to catch Lisa live on the road.

I'm rehauling my internet presence I'm doing. I'm using this new site called punch Up Live. I'm rehauling my website. Just go to my bio. Please come see me live.

Go to the Glitter Cheese Instagram bio. That is where you get the information. Also, if you haven't given my other little pod that I do with Jackie Zabrowski called Who's the Bitch A listen, follow us over there. We're getting wild calls all the time and giving advice, So come on over and give us a little We've got a lot.

It's cute.

There's a lot of like people that are like have followed her for a while. Or have followed that's messed up for a while, and so they're merging and it's cute little it's a cute little community.

Oh my god.

So speaking of community, I'm walking, I'm walking the streets and I see a Corgi that is like the ansomous little boy, like with such a pepinist step. Like I am looking at this Corgi being like, wow, what a happy little guy.

And the woman walking the corky goes glitter cheese and is a listener of the pod.

So, oh my god, shout out, I recognize each other. Well, no, I just was like a fan of the corgy. But she was great and she was going to a dog bar. So I'm gonna start going to this dog bar.

Oh hell yeah, that sounds like a great a great way to meet new friends, I'd say too. Uh, not that you need new friends, but the people that are hanging out at a dog bar, I will say. Because you were asking if we got any suggestions for merch, somebody did write in and go, why don't you call your listeners badge bunnies? And I'm like, I don't know. Those are people who want to fuck cops, Like, I don't think we can do that.

It's cute. We like the name. We love a badge bunny.

I just don't think that most of you are actual badge bunnies. You know. No, they're not messy bitches. Should that be what our girls are called? Because messed up and bitch? Oh mess messy, dumb bitch, dumb messy dunban. Wait wait, there's a show coming to New York called Messy White Gaze and I saw it.

This is not a paid advertisement.

I saw a staged reading of it at Dynasty in LA like literally the actors holding scripts and I was dying. I mean they're not sitting down. They were acting it out but holding their scripts. And it was so fucking funny. And it's in New York. Go see it, you guys. Drew Drogi from the Mind of Drew Drogi one of my faves. So funny, go see it. It's like a fucking hilarious, like murder mystery with a bunch of like gays at brunch.

Speaking of I wonder if okay, So, so you know, I like all my fucking movie games. So someone messaged me and went, I bet this movie is good for your movie game. It's star studded and it just got on Amazon and it's called The Ten but it's Ken Marino and David Wayne wrote it and it's their set. The movie right after wet hot American Summer, and it's about the Ten Commandments. It's a bunch of short movies

It's like Star stud Ashida Jones, I mean.

Justin Thireau, like Jason Sudacas, Joe la Truglio, Oliver Platt.

It is.

It keeps going and going, and I really really liked it. Geni Garoffalo and I wonder if you would like it because it's wet hot American humor. It's so it's really fucking funny. And he said it was impurgatory and unable to be released for years, and now it's on Amazon and I watched it and I really liked it.

Okay, I'm gonna watch I'm gonna see I Jared. I'll I'll watch this with Jared because I bet he'll love it too. All right, let's get started. Longest intro ever uh and uh, yeah, we've got a great episode for you guys. Don't go anywhere, Okay, we I'm excited about this one. This one is definitely lodged in my brain

And we've never done an episode that I don't think.

I guess we did cover Born Psychopath and like Postgraduate Psychopath, which had like a ten year spam, but this is the only one that has like a little time jump that we're doing in the same episode. So it's I think it's kind of fun and I love a season one episode. So we open on a blonde with wet hair sitting in her bedroom smoking a sig. It's kind of giving Carrie Bradshaw, but this is SVU, so I don't think she's overthinking a comment for mister Big like

It's like this.

Big ass brick landline phone from two thousand and she slowly dials nine to one one. We can see there's a big bruise on her cheek when the camera kind of pans around to her other side and she tells the operator, I've just been raped. Cut to a pile of clothes on the floor with a beeper going off, and who reaches for it but the beeper king himself Dennis Duffy aka Detective Brian Cassidy aka New York Magazine cover boy Dean Winters, and he's in bed with Benson.

Nah uh he yes, yeah, seeing them in bed together. We've never seen Benson in bed again with anyone.

Well, I said that we don't see her after we saw her in a shower towel.

No, but we see her in bed in season twenty three when she has after having sex with Aiden Quinn's character, who we hate because he groomed her as a teen, yeah, and like that's that's happening. Yeah, yeah, Like but it's twenty three seasons later they're like, all right, let's put her in bed again, you know.

But like that, we.

Don't get any like sexy stuff we see or maybe leaving a date we have her like you know, getting a kiss on a forehead from Tucker. Like we do not see her actively like naked implications of nudity. I mean, she's like not wearing a shirt for sure.

And not to give too much away, but you know, he's obsessed and she's like, theybe I used you for sev eight, Get out of my face.

Yeah.

So they're both like kind of scrambling whose beeper is it. I'm also noticing when Cassidy reaches for the pager that I see a tattoo of like a long horn or it might be a long horn skull, but it's like it's on his I think it's a long horn. It's like some kind of cow with big horns, and it's on his arm. And then there's also a long horned skull hanging on the wall of their apartment when him live eventually move in together. Like many seasons later, So

Anyway. It's Benson's beeper.

Going off and she's like, gotta go, and he's like that was incredible and she's like, don't get used to it while she ties a robe on and then boom. It's the credits, the most concise cold open of all time, exactly one minute, including in the criminal justice system, like so concise, and then the gang in the opening credits in season one is only Benson, Stabler, Cragan, and Belzer, a skeleton crew Jeffries.

Isn't there no one else?

So now Live is at the er at the top of act one and the timestamp is twelve forty two and she meets Harper Anderson played by Tracy Pollin, who she's an actress. She was on Family Ties in the eighties, and there she met Michael J. Fox, and she's been married to Michael J. Fox ever since the meeting him there. But then a lot of what I read about her said she took a step back to concentrate on her marriage and her children and whatever. She's acted on and

Rape kits, Chiller like, I don't get it. There's gotta be a better way.

I mean that member we read about the woman that tried to do at home rape kits, It's like those are never going to survive chain of custody. But the timestamp is now one oh three am, and you know

This is two thousand, like a bunch of shows weren't doing that.

And it's a slow, work paced episode, Like it's definitely different. I wonder if they had pushed you know, it's like it's not a bottle of it, but it's different. It's like different paste than a lot of s you yes, and the rape Kits scene is longer than most I would say, though, is just shann Asassman episode Yeah with the gray that like really takes you through it, but it's it's it's.

A long scene.

Jennifer Love Hewett episode Behave, Like I think they take you through it, like you know, they take you through it a lot to show you because I think the show's goal has always been to like show that when people are like just report it, go to the hospital, it's like, look at what everybody has to go through, Like, look at what you have to go through this like invasive exam after it's hours after you've just been assaulted, and there's a doctor that barely wants to do it,

Like maybe they did something like this on ER.

I'm not like an ER completist, but this is you know, they're doing it here, and I think it's like, we got to give them props because it's twenty twenty five years have gone by and not as much has changed in the world of sexual assaults as we would have hoped. But they're doing what they can. At SVU. As the doctor's doing the vaginal swab on Harper, Benson's like, okay, well we need a UV light to look for the semen on her stomach and the doctor's like, yeah, we

Live tells her like, don't worry.

The state pays for all this, and Live needs her formal statement, and she's like, but we could do it tomorrow if you want. And Harper's like, I want this to be over with, So they go down to the station.

Could be worse. What are you talking about. It's like anyone can game into our home. It's like, t like, why are you downplaying a thing? Yeah, to do the punch to her face could be worse.

She got punched in the face, like, yeah, her face be ripped off, Like could There's a million ways anything could be worse, you know. But then Harper had earlier mentioned that she had a uniform police officer with her, but he wasn't with her when Benson walked up because she found him annoying and sent him to the cafeteria. So no, that UNI comes back and Stabler's like, never leave a rape victim alone. I don't care what she says. It's like, well, she did hate you, so I don't know.

And then he, you know, ejaculated on her.

Stomach, and then he made her shower and he said please when he was having her get in the shower, and like the whole time she walked to the bathroom, she says, her arms are still over her head, like

And this is.

A man now who she's seen him like, she saw him and he's not wearing a mask. She's seen him standing over her bed. Then she doesn't see him for a while. Then she sneaks a peek in the shower, but she has seen him. And so five oh one am Harper is describing the ring that he took. It was her grandma's. It was very rare, platinum branch with diamond leaves. And he took her wallet as well, and he must have taken the T shirt that he used to clean up the.

Jizz on her stomach, and then it was her. It took you a second to figure out what word you are going to use in there. I know jizz I picked.

Jizz I'm sorry I chose jizz I chose violence. And then she said it was her Rosie the Riveter t shirt, which is kind of like a sad irony that like, Rosie the Riveter is like, we can do it, and that's like the shirt he uses to like clean up the aftermath of him violating her. But it was also Rosie the Riveter was Rosi's first Halloween costume and it.

Was really cute anyway.

Five point nine we find out that Harper waits tables and when then's table asks her what laundromat she uses, she like at this point, she like puts her head on the table and she's sighing, like she looks so tired. She's like, my laundromat, Like what are we Like? They're combing through every detail of her life, Like she has now been poked, prodded and questioned for six hours. So now it's six thirteen in the morning. They are finally done. She's gonna have them take her to her boyfriends. She

Books too, and it's kind of in the real crime too, but that like the people around you don't know how to deal with it or like yeah, of course you know, yeah, yeah awful. That's why it's annoying when it's like all about the guy's future, not about the victims.

It's like so like Fox.

You up, yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole the whole thing is very dehumanizing from start to finish.

And I mean, I also wish there was a better way.

Uh So at seven oh one, Live walks Harper up to her boyfriend's door and is like, Okay, we're going to go search your apartment. The state's going to pay to change the locks. A counselor is going to call to set up an appointment. She gives Harper her page your number and says call any time day or night. It doesn't matter if I'm midfuck with Cassidy. This bitch

She made it up.

She didn't mention smoking a joint, so she's making it up and they think maybe he They haven't found her underwear, so they think maybe like he kept it as a trophy. But then in the bathroom, lives like, well the curtain's wet, and Cassidy goes but the soap isn't and lives like, no, I know where you're going with this and you're wrong, and he goes, come on, you know, this is what happens with staged rapes. Women will wet the shower curtain but not the soap. And I'm like, do all women

I just don't get how that's even, Like that's like thousands of years of conditioning and brain stormy, Like why would your instinct always be the question of victim of assault.

Yeah, or you wouldn't in any other crime. It's like yeah, and you're the detectives that are supposed to do it, Like, I don't know what you see. It happen all the time, so why are you shocked?

Yeah, It's like if you walked into a robbery victim's house and they still had something expensive there and you're like, well, they didn't take this. This might be right, this might be staged. Like it's like all bad, it's all bad faith. So there are stablers like no semen, no vaginal trauma. And Cassidy's like maybe she was high and paranoid, it's like, and spent seven hours describing it in detail, and Live goes, well, this morning she said she felt like it never happened.

So no fingerprints, no DNA.

This guy's five eight, white, sandy haired, right handed, so very not specific, like you know, that's many men in the city, many men anywhere. He smelled rich, is what Benson adds. Let's check his mo against other cases. This guy asked her if she liked it, said please. In his fantasy, he's the perfect gentleman. So they're gonna check pawn shops and vendors at the Halloween carnival. Check pawn shops for the ring, check vendors at the Halloween carnival

Just throw people in jail for that.

So at Harper's boyfriend's place, we meet her boyfriend Benji spelled with a JY and he is played by Roger Bart who is a Tony Award winner in Tons of Stuff, and he's the freaky conservative talk show host who rapes Anna Schlumski in the episode twenty five acts that we've covered. So he's got us season one and then he's got like a way like a teen season I think later. So Benji's pissed, he wants to kill the guy who did this, and Benson's like, I think what Harper needs

So why they ask her about the pot? Why didn't you mention it?

And she's like, listen, smoking pot's not part of my routine, Like I had a job interview. I was just trying to mellow out. And she's very bothered by the question, and rightfully so. So now at Harper's apartment, the locksmith is changing the locks and the super is like the super goes, I mean, nothing like this ever happens in this building, Like, yeah, we found a body in a

He knows nothing.

So now we're talking to an sbu classic, a funny old lady who didn't see anything but knows somebody who did. And she points up to an apartment across the street where we see a sketchy.

Man peering out from behind a curtain.

So clearly some neighborhood peeping tom that everybody knows about. And that wasn't my community back in New York, and I kind of wish it was. So they go to that guy's apartment is named Sam Lardner, and he's got three previous call ins for trespassing. I don't know if that means he ever got arrested or anything, but the

Says, what you know? Like they tricked him.

He knows exactly where she lives, and when he sees that they might be accusing him, he admits, Okay, it wasn't me.

I saw everything.

I saw the guy climb the fire escape, the previous tenant broke the lock.

Creepy that you know that.

He describes the attack exactly as Harper describes it, and he has no answer when they ask him, why didn't you call the police, And he can't describe the purp and why because his eyes were on Harper the entire time that she was being assaulted, because he's a fucking freak.

So not call for hell? I just can't. I can't.

Obviously, the cops are staring at him like you're a fucking heartless freak.

How could you just watch this.

Woman be attacked and basically get a boner and not call anyone?

And he's like, what are you gonna do to me?

And Benson goes the same thing you did for her and turns around, We're gonna do fucking nothing to you.

You're not worth our time.

But back at the house, Craigan asks the gang if Harper seems like the kind of gal who would buy five hundred dollars of hand packed meats, and done done, someone has used her credit card. So Munch brings in the perp and looky, looky, who it is. It's Baby McGrath aka Terry Serpico, friend.

Of the pod who we just had last week. We did not mean to back.

To back his Baby Days episodes, but we did. As they're hauling Baby McGrath off to an interrogation room, Cassidy has a like you left your scrunchy at my place moment with live and like hands her her watch. Yeah, it's like a it's like a it's a watch. But she's like put she goes, oh yeah, thanks, and like puts it on and you could tell she does not want to talk to him, and he shoots a shop for another date and she's like, babe, we went to Maloney's.

We got drunk.

I wanted it to happen as much as you did, but that's all I wanted to happen.

And he's like, is this because I doubted a rape victim? And he's like.

He's like that was the job that is a personal and live goes you know what. Neither was last night and I'm shivering. That is so cold. It is so cold and so good.

And then I had like a consent moment in to you both wanted like, yeah, I like sex.

I'm a grown woman. I wanted to bang you. But like you know, we find out. I mean, like so in the next scene, Stable and Benson are at their lockers, which I think we see some of these lockers at the very beginning and like never again, but there is a locker.

That's also lockers.

Also like change located, like sometimes they're just right in the middle of the pre stasm of the are the side room.

Sometimes they have it in the crib, like the rumin Sleep has lockers.

Yeah, so I don't know.

It's very confusing, but at this point and I like the early season room the most. Like the squad room. I like it so much. I like the ringing of the phones, I like the click clack of the typewriter paper. I like the like the big paper stacked up on the desks, like the regular corkboard that like is kind of shitty and not like nothing is electronic yet, you know, like, I get it, we got to evolve with the times. But like, I love the squadroom. I think that's why

Like you love this. So the lockers are iconic, but like you don't see that.

But there is one that says brisco And I'm like, is that Kenny Briscoe the son who is in one episode?

Because I don't think that.

I don't think that the other law and Order people work out of the same precinct the ones from Regular, Right, they're different people.

I don't know yahing about Regular, Like it really ends with me and people always want to bond with me, and I'm like, find another friend.

Yeah, I've seen a few episodes, but I couldn't even really point out any of their plots, Like I don't Yeah, it's not really that's not my I'm a We're one.

We're one alley Way gals.

Okay, So Stabler and Benson are shooting the shit at the lockers about meat guy, and then out of nowhere, he goes, so how long you've been banging Cassidy?

I mean he doesn't say it like that, but he asks.

Her and she denies it and is like, no, I mean no, it's not that's not happening.

Like and then finally.

She gives it up and she's like, is it that obvious? And he's like, I'm your partner. We all know way too much about each other, blah blah blah, and she's like asking Stabler kind of like like what do I do? Like I didn't want it to go this far, like he wants to see me again, like I don't you know? And Stabler says, be nice, maybe even be over nice. He'll be cold, but he'll get over it. It happens, and she's like, really, I mean, I think the issue for her is not that she doesn't like like Cassidy.

With anybody at work, which is smart.

So but when you're married to the job, unfortunately, that's the only kind of person you're really going to meet. So that is who she has available for fucking. So now they're talking to the meat thief baby McGrath, and he has a long rap sheet.

Benson is able, we're questioning him.

And five hundred pounds did he want to start like a restaurant?

I just don't get why you need that much. And they don't get into it. They don't ask him. They're not like, what were you doing with all that meat? Bro like not like just five hundred pounds? Sat like you're gonna have a barbecue.

Like it's not your card, but you didn't want to start with maybe twenty pounds of meat and see what happened?

Yeah, yeah, wild.

I think a lot of people, though, go for big because they think if the card's going to get if it goes through, they're like, great, I got a run, because then it's eventually gonna get called in, so they don't go for small.

I don't know. It's like when people I remember always hearing in New York.

That when people steal credit cards, the first thing they do is they go by monthly metro cards because they're like one hundred and thirty dollars and you can just get them. You don't have to put in a pin, you don't have to sign, you just and it's like expensive and you can get it quickly. But yeah, anyway, so okay, so Benson is table are questioning baby McGrath about anything but the meat, and he starts to get the idea that he starts to like they start to ask about like the rape, and he's.

Like, whohahahaho, who who woa?

I did not rape anybody. He goes, I was in a holding cell last night for jumping a turnstyle. Imagine that, like your life involves, just like being in jail multiple days in a row. You're like, oh, no, yesterday, I'm here now, but yesterday I was here for a different thing, like I was not committing a crime. So he's he I was in jail for holding him for jumping a turnstyle, and he's like, I found that wallet in a garbage can.

There was no cash, so obviously I had to use the.

Credit card by five hundred pound a met This is not weird, So they check it out. The guy's alibi checks out he was in jail. So then Harper shows up looking nervous. They called her. They didn't even ask this guy, like what's up? Where were you? He's got a very easily provable alibi, But they call Harper and go, we got the guy. So Harper shows up and she's like, is he here? And they're like, sorry, it's not him. I blame them for that. That's bullshit. You can wait

So I just don't like that he's implying that she's gonna have these issues, but like, not him.

Right, well like that, I think he's like I doubt rape victims, and I like treat this like a job, and you treat it like personally, you help people, like outside of work hours, and you do more.

You know, I think he's kind of like, you know whatever, it's kind of a.

Dig because it's not like that that's what they were talking about. It's not like she said I don't have time for a relationship because of the job. She said, I don't want to shit where I eat, like, you know, she doesn't want a relationship at work, and he's like just trying to insult her, I think, being like you're

He had a great lawyer, which is like, oh.

My god, this fucking systemwhere if you have a good lawyer you can get anything done. The other detective is like yeah, it was weird. Why is this West Village guy who's got a lawyer on retainer, why is he breaking an entering? And the guy says, but this woman didn't get raped. It was just a breaking and entering thing. So this guy was wearing a mask, so he's getting better. So Liv thinks this is definitely the guy. She's like, I know it in my gut, and we've got to

He is douche central.

Okay, he's making up a story about rolling his ankle, that's why he was limping when they found him. He said he was clearing his head. And they're like at two forty five in the morning, eighteen blocks from where you live. And he's like, I got some big accounts on the brain and they're worth a lot of money. And then they accused him of, you know, raping Jane Ann Harper, and he's like, oh please, and Benson gets up close and takes a huge hit of his cologne.

Call my lawyer. And then even though he's.

Basically lawyered up, he keeps talking to them and he's like, oh, I got it on the street. And she's like, oh, hey, that's a nice watch. Can I see it? And she takes it off and it's engraved with the word Leo, and he's like, oh, that's my extra astrological sign.

He's got an accuse like so quickly.

It's like he's a freak, Like I don't realize that's actually like a clue that you're more full of shit when you have an answer for everything.

Yes, exactly, So he tells them, I mean because he could have said, oh, I also got this set upawn shop and it just I didn't mind the inscription, you know, like if you're really trying to cover your tracks. He tells them his jeweler is even change it that it's a name for someone. Yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio. You're a big fan.

I love Leo.

Yeah, totally, uncle Leo from Seinfeld, he tells them.

So anyway, he.

Makes up this this freak makes up this whole story about his jewelers named TJ. He's a black guy who hangs out on the street between Canal and Mott, and Stablers goes those streets intersect, You can't be between Canal

I think that's a weird thing to be caught lying on.

But now talking to Craig and Benson's like, he smells expensive, and Craigan goes, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you to smell the defendant, which is a I'd say up in the classic pantheon of crazy SVU lines.

They I've seen this one before on lists the.

Watch and the trophies they're explaining, and Craigan is like, well, we actually only have one victim technically, because Jane did not report her rape or the watch theft, and she couldn't even id the guy, so they won't reopen the case. It's like, are you not allowed to go amend your case and say something else happened?

Like I thought you were.

But they're like, well she couldn't ide him, so like they're not going to spend the man hours on this case.

And Harp.

They're like, Harper, will I d the ring and the creep get her down here. He has a right to a speedy arraignment, which is twenty four hours. So they go to Harper's apartment and the super lives there. Now he's like, Harper never slept here another night, So now they go find Benji, and Benji talks about how Harper fell apart after the attack. She stopped eating, lost her job because she never slept. She had to sleep with the lights on. Then he couldn't sleep, so he was

You have to go when you get a warrant.

It has to be to look for specific things, not like let's just see if he has any other trophies. So and then Benson's like, can we compel Harper to like maybe she's got unpaid parking tickets? And Carmichael's like, yeah, no, bitch, I'm not gonna like rape this woman again.

So you got to use your own powers of persuasion.

It's a weird idea, yeah, And Benson's like, but that's not what I meant. And it's like, I don't know how else you would compel a rape victim to talk to you. But Stabler is now out there digging up info on Cleary and then they're like, get his picture in a.

Photo array, get it to Harper. We only have a few hours.

So Cleary is now shooting the shit with Munch, talking about aggressive accounting, and he's got the most punishable face, like of all time.

This man, like he's like, what do you make.

Fifty sixty five sixty K a year and then eighty with overtime. He's trying to tell him how he can turn his money into more money, you know, and Stabler comes in going you're a cancer, which is a funny double entendre because this man is a cancer like on Society, but he's also astrologically a cancer, not a Leo. And he claims, oh no, it's a nickname for my grandfather and they're like, your grandfather's name was Percy.

He's like, wouldn't you rather be called Leo than Percy.

It's like the guy lie with a quickness that is, like, you know, very concerning, and they ask him some questions, but everything they ask him his lawyer Stone Walls. So now Benson and Cassidy are at Harper's door, yelling through the door, being like, we can stay here all night.

We're just as stubborn as you are. Blah blah blah.

She finally opens it and they want to show her the array and she goes, I never want to see this guy again. She goes, I don't and she honestly doesn't care about this other victim or if there are any other victims, and they're like, well, there's no case without you, and she's like, okay, well what does that do for me?

Like and they're like, well, we could put.

His ass away, and she goes, is that supposed to change something for me? Like give me some sort of closure? Parentheses Part one, You guys should drink if you've heard that. And she's already made peace with it, she says, she goes, I did therapy, I did yoga, I lit a candle, I cut my hair. I'm over it, and you know, she walks away as Cassidy says, to live like kind of under his breath, but so she can hear it. Cassidy goes, maybe he's not the one that did her,

Did the cops fully believe her? Did all the cops fully believe her?

And then even then with all the information, there was nothing that happened for six months, and she's like, my god, this guy just got away. So like, I can understand why a lot of people don't want.

To put themselves through this.

But uh, Live goes, you are obviously not fine, and Harper's like, well, that's not your place to tell me. And then she's like, well, if you knew anything. I've talked to survivors. Closure is a myth. Survivors say you never get over this. When was the last time you slept in your bed without running shoes on? And you know that hits Harper because how did you know about

Multiple times? And it's kind of why that line.

Is like like drawn into my head, Like it's basically drilled into my head. So Harper shakes her head at the lineup and goes, the guy's not there, which is crazy because she's the only guy that's seen his face. But I'm sure that happens all the time, Like there's witness meet misidentification all the time, Like no, I swear it was that guy, and then that guy has an alibi, you know what I mean. It's like people do misremember.

You know, like you don't think that's going to happen.

But Live hugs her as she cries, and that's Dick Wolf Parentheses part one.

So now we're moving on to closure.

I wanted to say, knew they were going to do a part two the whole time, or it came about after the season, like when they started writing season two.

I am curious.

Well, also, I wonder because Tracy Polland got nominated for an Emmy, so they were like, probably like we could do another episode, like sort of following up on it, bringing her back.

Damn say they had season one fucking nominations. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

So anyway, Closure Part two opens with a nine to one to one operator taking a call and it's a woman reporting a rape. Now we know because we've just listened to a full episode of her talking that this is Harper's voice. Okay, she's calling in this call and a dog is barking, and the woman says, get away from me at this dog, and then the call gets disconnected.

It's like a scuffle with a dog, you can tell.

The operator calls the cops and says there's a rape in progress at the scene. Benson is there with her. Now it's for season two, people, So the hair that silky little brunette bob is gone, and we've got the spiky little situation from season two. He's doing press right now, I think for the upcoming season. Yeah, she just did an interview, She's like, I thought I was going to get fired.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I saw that too. Shoot, yeah, I love one. She said.

Basically what happened was I thought she got the care cut on her own. But I think like the article that I saw or the interview I saw with like she got blamer. Yes, some guy was like, do you on a little trim and just cut cut, cut, cut cut and gave her like a full pixie without asking, you know. So it's kind of crazy, especially when you're the lead of a television show. Certainly it's not Chris whatever his name is, the guy that cuts her hair

I'll be honest, I really can't stop thinking about baby Chanelle on the runway, Like I just love her helping a little girl out. That was just her instincts.

She's sweet instinct was like come on, and like that could not be staged, do you know what I mean? Like it's just a pure moment of a kid being a good kid, Like I just love.

Her because she could I mean, you know, who knows what she's like, you know, but she could be a spoiled brat, Like, yeah, she seems very sweet for the privileged life that she has.

Yeah, I bet Ice drops a lot of like miniature Ice cult facts on her and doesn't let her get take things for.

The way she spoils the shit out of her.

No, I know, but I bet he also like teaches her like in life, you gotta work for your money. You got to sign your checks. You're not gonna get anything handed to you, Like even though I'm spoiling you now with five bulldogs or whatever the fuck, Like, you're gonna work so short hair. Benson and Stabler are on the scene. One of the uniforms has them an evidence bag with like a bracelet on it that says Laurie,

I don't know. Oh no, it's how they find the victim.

Okay, because they're in they like know where the building is, but they don't know which apartment. So now the unities come out and they're like, we found the apartment. We found the apartment. So they go into the apartment. The victims in the bathroom with the shower running. Laurie keeps going, don't come in here. The place is filthy. This place

She opens the shower.

The girl is like in the shower like scrubbing the drain with a toothbrush, and she's like, I need to get all this stuff that he washed off me.

I needed to go away.

Like she's obviously like having a very very traumatized reaction to what has obviously just happened to her. Live calms her down, covers her with a towel, and Laurie says that the guy just kept saying, is this how you like it?

This is how you like it?

And it's really sad because she says, to be and this is really happening, isn't it? Like she was, It's like she just snapped into like lucidity a little bit more and was like fuck, this like, this thing actually happened to me. And then Benson and Stabler compare notes, same neighborhood, same type of woman, like these all these women so far, I forgot to say last episode, but Jane Tyler was like a petite blonde as well, like he's always going after petite blonde. Samemo Bastard is at

It's like, no, no, Harper was raped a year ago.

Then six months later you brought him in as a suspect, and really it was May, and it's October right now, so it's five months have passed. And if so, like, if he's a suspect in May, six months later, it's not crazy to show. It's crazy to me to shut down a theory that this guy could still be back at it after five months, Like that's not weird. Even after a year, these things happen. Benson and Stabler are sure this is Cleary who they had and they lost

Sabler's behind the glass and.

He's saying the fishbowl like he's saying all these pieces of the story before she says them. So it's like, this is how textbook this guy is, Like, everything's the same. She's like, he ripped off my necklace. Munch reports that there was nothing from forensics, which duh. This guy never leaves forensics. He never leaves any evidence. So when he heard sirens, he pushed Laurie and liv goes, wait, did you call the cops and she says no, So they

It's like whatever.

It all leads us to this guy who is who owns a stand down the block, and that's where you find this sweet little pooch who will not shut the fuck up. And this is definitely the dog who barked at the nine one one callar. The guy that's there, he's like smoking a cigar. He describes her, the woman using the phone as blonde, thirty, thin but not too thin, black sweater, black pants, thong panties. They're like, how did you know you could see her underwear? And he goes,

And they're like, so you noticed all that, but not her face for one second?

Okay, He's like, I noticed what I noticed? Deal with it, you know, like he's I mean, he he runs a tight news stand. I guess this guy sucks. But inaugural season, Finn walks in with an interesting tidbit. Right after the nine to one one call was placed, a call went from that payphone to where dun done the Cleary home. Cragan sends Munch and Fin to the Cleary's house because they already have a history with Benson and Stabler, so

Wow, it's the.

Strangest imdbfen not a veo, not a commercial, not a like uncredited part in another thing, just these three things. So she quit acting, but she looked familiar to me. I thought she did other stuff anyway. Maybe she's just like a wife of someone on the crew who's like, I'm good at acting, let me do it one episode. But anyway, she's like, about damn time you showed up. I've been after the phone company for months. Someone is harassing me with phone calls. And the woman's like, well

It's like okay, lady.

And then she goes last night when she called, she said he's raping someone right now.

And then they're like, where was your husband?

And she's like home with me all night, which is like always what she says without like a shred of looking guilty, and she didn't want to wake her up.

They're like, did you wake him up? Like whatever.

She's like, well, we don't both have to be awake because someone's calling our house and trying to ruin our lives. And I called the phone company in the morning, so she goes They offered to like basically tap our phone line, but my husband doesn't want that because they could listen to our private conversations and you know that, he writes in finance he can't have that, And she's like.

This woman is ruining our lives. Why won't you stop her.

It's like they're prank calls, and literally this woman's been raped, so it's like kind of crazy. So now the gang is in a huddle in the squad room, and the

This entire episode is wild.

Harper's apartment door opens and she's smiling immediately going you should be at his place, not mine. Her hair is long again, grows extremely fast. It's been five months and it's way down to her boobs again.

But good for her. She's probably taking collagen.

And she says, they're like, you've been stalking Cleary and she's like, stalking is illegal. I surveil from a legal distance, and she's got everything covered. She saw this guy go into alley. She circled the building, making sure that she hadn't like lost him, that he'd gone out a different way, and then she figured he was definitely raping someone and she called nine one one. The whole time she's talking

Cabinets as like a piece of art.

And Stabler she's like, want some wine, and Stabler turns her down and she's like, it's six o'clock.

You guys clock out? Did it work days over?

And she's like, Clear's a workaholic and he doesn't leave the office until eight, so we've got plenty of time to chat like an hour and a half, so it's clear, like she follows this guy like every day. Liv points out that Harper couldn't id Cleary in the lineup, So how do you know he's the guy who attacked you? She goes, I went to the sentencing for his trial for possession of stolen property. When he left court, he

Then you knew he would rape again?

And they're like, true, but even though there's like no way that they have the resources to do that, they have done that many times, Like I don't know why they didn't do that. They do it all the time, but in this case they couldn't. So Lives like, you can't handle this on your own. And Harper's like, what, I'm basically doing what a PI does and I don't need a license to do it for myself. And they're like, you're harassing his wife, and she's like, she's enabling a rapist.

I mean, we.

Almost literally caught the guy because of her, and the system failed her, so she's basically doing this on her own.

Like live can kind of understand where this girl's coming from.

And Craigan traffic cops like Finn and Munch, you go bring Harper in for a stern talking to, and Benson and Stabler go get in Cleary's face and maybe that'll stop him from raping.

I mean, he was literally brought in.

And almost busted, and he keeps doing it, but you know, maybe you guys could scare him. So then they go to Cleary's house and when they get there, there's flyers taped up everywhere of his mugshot and the word rapists written below it, and then down the block we see Meredith Cleary the wife yelling at Harper, who's actively hanging up the flyers, going.

Stop a you're owning our lives, Like.

You know, she can't have the neighbors seeing these signs. So in the middle of this scuffle, the rapist of the hour, Cleary, comes speeding up to the curb in this little BMW convertible, like honestly just cementing his duchary in my mind. And they tell Cleary, well, a woman was raped two nights ago, and he's like, I was home with my wife. And Harper's like, you're lying, I saw you. And he's like, how much longer are you gonna let this woman who forgot to take her lithium

Fuck that.

She grabs a huge metal bar which is in a trash pile, and in New York City there's a massive metal bar in nearly a retrash piles, so you could just grab one, and she smashes the windshield of this douchey little I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or legit.

I am being sarcastics. It's like wild.

She's like, I'm mad, and she reaches and there's like a perfectly shaped weapon for smashing a car roof like sitting in a trash pile.

It's like ridiculous, but it's TV and I love it.

So she just smashes the shit out of this shitty, little fucking car that this guy has, and then they take her away and she's like, yeah, arrest me, not the rapist, and gets in Cleary's face and he's like.

Grinning, like this guy is so gross, and his wife.

Looks at him like she's pissed off, Like the neighbors are going to see this, like why are you smiling?

You know?

So Benson and Stabler are now chatting with Craigan and Cabot. Harper puts Cleary at Laurie's building, but that's it, not in the apartment. And after her little stunt with the car, she's not gonna fly as a witness, right Benson. I mean, also, she wouldn't fly as a witness just because of the fact that she's accused it like he's been like actually maybe because he hasn't been officially brought up on charges

We are down to work for free? What do we make? Sixty five? K let's do it. It's season two.

They are not making They are not like getting big salaries these two. Okay, So now they're at Cleary's work at a venture capital firm. He wants to know why they're there and they're like, oh, we're here to talk to your boss.

Is that okay?

So they tell the boss we're investigating a serial rapist. What's Kindeth Cleary.

Like to work with?

And I think this is so fun. This is like the ultimate shade. Like they're not telling him that he's a serial rapist. They're like, Hi, work cops investing a cereal rape. Tell us more about Kenneth Cleary like it's you can connect the dots, sir. And the boss is like, is he a rapist? And they're like so, or have you seen his haircut? Yes, of course he's a rapist.

Uh.

And then boss says he's a workaholic. And then he mentions like he works all the time. We lost two assistants in Philly who couldn't keep up with him. We're opening a branch there, so he's there half his time. And now they're like, could we see his travel records? Cleary, who is like the personification of smug, he's like so smug.

Fuck off, Because that is another thing I liked about Dexter that he like had.

To work out. That was like a part of it. Or like now there shoulder hurts and he's older and he's like, oh geez, I know he doesn't have the mobility. I like that realistic element. But yeah, if you're a killer, not only do you have to be an incredibly award winning actor, but then you also have to be athletic. You need to work out, and you need attention to detail attentions, you know.

Yeah, I remember that about Deb. Deb was always working out. She was always like on the treadmill.

Like running. Yeah.

Oh, so after he says this gross line, Sabler grabs him by the tie and brings him in close and goes, you won't be eating out anymore, and then like lets him go, which I love. And now Munch is researching rapes in Philly and three of them have Cleary's signature, and Cleary was there in town for all three of them. Craigan wants Munch to go down to Philly and interview the victims, and Munch is like, can't they just fax the case files? And Craigan's like, Billy's SVU sucks. They're

I understand.

So if I'm married, I can't decide to testify against my husband. Like that makes no sense. I understand if I don't want to, if I want to be like, no, I'm married, but like that, it is suddenly a contract where you cannot and everything you say is it admissible?

Like I don't get it. Well, we talked about this before, I know, but it still bothers me and I don't remember what I am.

No, but.

Like, but I don't get it. They're like, we can't she can't say anything, But it's like, can't she decide to betray her husband?

No? I know when we talked about it before, somebody wrote in about it like a lawyer, and he right in again, well hold on, let me just see if I can find it if I just write spousal and okay. So to answer your spousal slash marital privilege question from the podcast episode this was back in June. Somebody wrote us, the person who would be testifying can either invoke the privilege or wave it, and it relates to conversations within the marriage, not actions.

That are observed.

So if you see your husband murdering someone, you can say I saw my husband murder someone. But if your husband told you, I guess conversations, that's privilege. If your husband told you they murdered someone, it sounds like but it sounds like you should still be able to wave it if you want, If you're the person, you shouldbible to wave it. I think what he argues, what later the lawyer argues, is that the gifts of the jewelry

This guy does not deviate.

At the Cleary home, Meredith won't let Stabler in, but he's like, listen, I know you're a victim too, Like whenever there's a rape victim, there's other victims as well who aren't necessarily the victims of the rape. And he's saying he's saying rape a lot of times, and she does not like that because the neighbors are going to hear. And she's a very you know, keeping up with the Joneses kind of like woman and cares what people think

So I guess.

They pass Harper's apartment and Meredith Cleary is outside of it and she's like, I was just leaving you a note. And so it's confusing because it seems like they're just walking down a city street. And then suddenly the wife of the rapist is there and she's like, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. And she's like, I feel responsible and I feel guilty and I just wanted you to know that.

And they're like, what are you talking about?

And she pulls out a ziploc bag and it's got.

A bunch of jewelry in it. So done done.

This fucking guy has more than just the few victims that we've seen at the precinct. She's explaining how her husband would give her surprise gifts all the time. He'd gets so excited when she tried the on, she thought it was romantic. She's crying and then she's like, I need a second and then she just like gets on the phone and calls her husband says, I.

Can't take it. Come home.

You've got to come home right now, and then she turns around stone faced and goes He'll be on the next train from Philadelphia, So the wife is on board now. At Penn station, Munch and Finner following him out of the station, they meet up with Benson and Stabler and they all arrest him together. They bring in the Douche Parade again for a lineup, and Laurie immediately recognizes Cleary's voice after they all say is this how you like it?

Again?

He's smugly staring through the glass to freak her out, which is unhinged, and it does freak her out. Another lineup happens with one of the girls from Hilly Ray.

Also, I don't know if intimidating through the glasses that crazy.

Yeah, you're right, Like, I mean, it's not weird for him to be like staring creepily smuggly through the glass, but it's like the cops are watching you.

So it's kind of strange. But whatever, I hate this man. So much.

Then there's another lineup with one of the victims from Philly, and she also Id's Cleary by his voice. And then now we're at arraignment and he turns around and grins at Harper, who's sitting in the gallery, And when somebody moves out of his field of vision, it reveals that his wife is sitting right next to Harper, and that smug little smile goes bye bye real quick, and it's

She gives Cabot her number. She's staying on long Island.

She's like, yeah, I need to talk to you about your testimony, and then they're like anything else I could do for you?

And she goes, do you know a good divorced lawyer?

And then she stomps off and then one of Cleary's other lawyers walks up, and it's the late Great Ned Eisenberg. I had no idea that he plays three different defense attorneys in SVU.

He plays a.

Lawyer named Jerry Kleinert, a lawyer named Klein Rothberg, and then finally he becomes Roger Kressler, who's like the recurring, recurring lawyer. I just don't get why they would change his name so many times. Just keep it, But I will say, in this episode he's Klein Rothberg, which sounds like a made up name of your like name a Jewish lawyer, and you're like, klein Rothberg, Like, it just

He's emotions. He's filing.

He's like in Leminae Suppress spousal privilege, he's filing them all okay. In the judges chambers, we have a queen an icon, Doris Black. She is Judge Margaret Barry. She is also the judge in Peak and that's it. Like, so she's not an icon SVU why is necessarily? I just love her. She was on One Life to Live for like eight hundred episodes back when I used to watch it. She was a voice on Doug. She's done like fifty eight episodes of Doug. She's some voice like

We just asked who gave it to you?

So like that would be a violation of spousal privilege if Cleary said I got this from whatever. But for her to say, my husband gave me this, that's an action. And then he argues, well, wouldn't you say the act of giving jewelry is a communication and the judge is kind of buying it, so she goes, limit the scope. You can only talk about the receipt of the jewelry

Why did you not object before she answered her?

I mean she did object, but for some reason, I feel like the judge allowed it. I can't believe it was allowed, and then it was sustained, like the jury should never have heard her not to get that voice, I'd because that's bullshit. Next up, Cabot is prepping Meredith Cleary, and she's like, why are you asking me these questions so specifically and so narrowly, And they're like, ma'am, we

Fuck, et cetera, et cetera.

Immediate mistrial is granted, like this dumb bitch, like I thought that they made it clear to her this could throw the entire thing. The judge calls Cabot over is like, I hold you specifically responsible for this. You prepped the witness and you knew she was in a fragile emotional state and could not stick to the scope of the questioning. You have the privilege of now starting over, and in the meantime, I hope you acquire some professionalism.

Burn.

This felt right out of the Petrovski playbook, except for calling her Alexandra. It was basically like it was Petrovski pre Petrovski Cabot. I think, I don't know when Petrovski started. But Cabot looks shook. She's been scolded. Meredith apologizes to Harper. She's like, I'm so sorry. Harper's like, it's okay, it's okay. Clearly smirk, said Harper. He is so nasty. This man. His name is Neil Maffin. He stopped acting in two thousand and five, but he could have come back to

I have to go work on my face or something like. I don't know.

But Cabot is in Craigan's office now, she's drinking and she's like, do you want any Cabot doesn't know yet that Craigan is a sober a Sally and is in AA. So she's like, I feel like a kid who got scolded. And then she's like, we cannot try this again.

We have no case.

His attorney's blue holes in the ID. The wife maybe sabotage us on purpose. Cleary now and she's like and how Cleary walks and the people get a black eye, and Craigan goes, so it's all about you, and Kbbot goes, I don't need this Kragan, which you never really hear her say anything like that to him. I don't need this, Kragan, And then Craigan goes, well, you're whining about your case. You forgot about Harper and Laurie and the victims in Philadelphia.

He wouldn't stop and.

Cleary is lying there dead on the floor, and Benson asked who tried to clean up? And Harper goes, oh, I did well. Meredith was hysterical about the blood seeping into the floor. Does it make a difference? Like she's acting so like clueless, like on purpose. It's very fake, and Benson goes, you know it makes a difference. Harper Bleach ruins the gunshot residue test and Harper's like really,

That's the end.

And there's a lot of like Reddit threads and stuff about like who did it Harper or the wife? It's absolutely Harper did it. Absolutely In my mind, Harper did it. They ruined the gun residue test because I'm also sure she got when she was cleaning up the bleach got on her hands, so like, yeah, so she's not gonna

You never have to.

He could get out in twenty years and then he's back in your life trying to talk to your kid, who knows.

You know. I feel like it was a plot and that Harper had this.

Harper had a good six months to fucking research every in and out of this and get trained in shooting. And then she tells, she tells Benson. You think I'm this vigilante just trying to shoot him and that's not what I want. Like, it's like, no, I think it is. I think it might not be totally, but I think you love doing it. I think it's probably a great thrill for you.

And I wish I got to see his face the moment he realized he was about to get shot by her.

Yeah, yeah, me too, me too.

All right, Okay, so excited to hear about this happening in real life.

It's two crimes with two really like silly sentences, like hundreds and thousands of years, so I don't know how that.

Well.

Also, we should say that this episode is based on the Kathleen Ham case, which we already covered when we did the episode Limitations, So if you want to go listen to the Limitations again, there's a similar It's The Woman who Limitations is the episode where the woman won't testify because now she's a Quaker and she thinks that her rapist has made good and changed his ways and she doesn't think she needs to be forced to testify against him, and the statute de limitations is running out.

This is the Bronx rapist case. Isaac sometimes Ricky Jones, Isaac Jones, Isaac Ricky Jones, serial rapist. He's accused of attacking fifty one victims over six years in the Bronx, Upper Manhattan and Westchester County, but thirty nine instances because sometimes multiple women at once, Oh my god, two or three. He was truly a maniac. Was a maintenance worker, lived

That's so crazy to me.

Yeah, yeah, that's a disordered way I think of looking at sex and sexuality.

Yeah, for sure. And of course he had priors. Of course he had priors. Convicted of sodomy in nineteen eighty three, robbery in nineteen eighty nine, then released from prison in ninety three and was on parole until nineteen ninety six. But the rape started in nineteen ninety three, and the cops did not recognize a pattern until nineteen ninety seven, and then started working backwards and finding cases that fit the pattern and bringing them forward.

But that means he was doing all of this on parole. Jesus, Yeah, which is like, okay, fire that parole officer. I guess fifty one rapes, yes, I guess.

But if you're showing up to your parole stuff, what does the parole officer do.

They don't follow you, you.

Know, maybe they should? No, I don't, Yeah, I mean a surprise visit. You couldn't have surprised him on one of these rapes. Like, I just I don't understand. It's it's wild and I betty, I wonder if he was like planning all this in jail in his head, like or he did it pre like he did have that sodomy charge, but like I just wonder.

Yeah.

So he was arrested finally for his crimes with his girlfriend outside of a Bronx pawn shop and trying to sell jewelry that he of course, like took from a victim, so a lot of similarities to the episodes. So the cops sat outside the pawn shop day and night for two months to catch him.

And this jewelry was.

From a Valentine's Day double rape, Oh my god, which his girlfriend then, who was like getting the jewels, said she was sitting with him on Valentine's Day watching the news of the Valentine's Day double rape, so she was like shocked at all this information as well. But like, so on Valentine's they're like hanging out watching the news, which is like a weird.

Valentine's Day to be honest, local news.

Yeah, but then they're like watching a peace on the on the rapist Oh my god.

He's and she just thought they were selling probably jewelry that he had just like randomly stolen.

Yeah I found or gotten, Betty. If you do maintenance in a building, I'm sure he could.

Be like I found him. Yeah, yeah, that's true. One of the perks he confessed.

He confessed though, to four rapes and eight arm robberies, and then his DNA then linked him to seventeen attacks. So I mean, he of course is like I was coursed. I was this DNA. It's like there's seventeen Dana like shop it just plead Dancy, just plead guilty. But he did confess to these rapes and robberies. Other charges he got was menacing, possession of stolen property and a weapons possession. His victim's crazy age thirteen to fifty three.

Wow. Yeah.

And one he raped a woman in front of her daughter. Another time raped a daughter in front of the mom in an elevator. One time a woman was five months pregnant. One just rejected his advances and he raped her like he really was, like not discriminated.

I don't know, just like out there raping.

He got one hundred and fifty five years to life, and then in an additional one hundred and seventy seven years for the other crimes and so that and then he was sentenced to three hundred and seventy five years in jail as well from like og like a dozen of other rapes because and it was also like Westchester, Bronx, Manhattan. Yeah yeah, so they all there were rapes in all of them.

So he got all of these years, which I don't know why.

I think it's like funny like, I don't know if I hate it or like it, or I could just be indifferent and not have a strong opinion. But like, I don't know how I feel about these kooky sentences.

I know, I think that they're supposed to be like have impact or something. But I feel like you could just say for life, no, no parole for life.

Yeah. I don't know why three hundred and seventy five.

I guess maybe it makes victims feel like twenty of those years are for me, and twenty of those years, or you know, maybe that makes.

It feel like or I was singing, if technology gets ahead, you know.

Maybe we'll get outchnically free, saying that in jail.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. Actually, I was like, you could just say for life, because that covers it. Even if we figure out some new technology. There's some new berry you can eat that makes you live till your fourth hundred, you know, just like yeah.

And they get free slave labor in there so they'll keep them alive, yeah, yeap, or get new ones of whatever. Its so hard not to go to the depths of hell. Okay, he was not whatever. He kept saying he's innocent. He wanted appeals he's like, yeah, I feel bad for these women, but I didn't do it. And it's like you had the jewelry you at the DNA, don't. I don't understand

If it's rape, the DNA puts you.

In jail, Yeah, your jiz is there being like it actually isn't.

No, the DNA is actually all we need. Yeah yeah, yeah.

They're always like adding things that are like it has to be you know, it should actually be four different points of if somebody doesn't see it happen, it can't it's not real, you know, like it's really just and if there's.

A witness should unreliable, unreliable.

Yeah, and what years was this? This was like in the eighties, three to ninety ninety seven, So it's like this guy was probably just like a lawyer that's like, fuck this DNA is really fucking a lot of my clients over because like the DNA is starting around then you're totally right, You're totally right, and now it's like dog, it's the standard.

So don't leave your DNA somewhere where you're committing a crime.

The Daily News also wrote that the judge said, you subjected these women to tearor and no one should have to experience this kind of humiliation. You are a persistent, violent criminal. And then another judge, and this is in the post. It's in the post, but this judge said, a remorseless menace to society who hunted women and terrorized them for his own pleasure. And that judge gave him one fifty five one hundred forty five years. And then

You know. I think they definitely took a lot from this case for the episode.

Yeah, and it's probably consistent for most victims of this type of crime. And the judges were going off. One of them, Justice Fish. He quoted Shakespeare. He wrote, we are reminded in Hamlet that the devil hath power to assume a pleasing shape. That's in the times like these these judges were really going off. He's like, he might pretend to be chill, but yeah, whatever, you don't seem to be as turned on by this Hamlet.

No, I'm just kind of like, what does that mean? The devil has a pleasing shape? Doesn't that mean that, like the devil is this guy hot?

Like? What are we talking about? Smiley? I think he was like, you know, I think people like him.

I'm literally googling the guy's image to be like, what is he gorgeous?

What's happening when we talking about just this fucking judge I'm obsessed with. Yeah, there is a twist.

There's a twist in a weird element of this case is that the cops were staking out for this guy, but instead, while they were in playing clothes, they gunned down a different man and so I'm sorry for but they murdered an African immigrant named Amadu Diallo, and they decided to blame Jones for this instead of themselves.

There was forty one bullets.

And this is the this is the song that y Kleff, friend of the pod, has a song called Diallo where he sings about this and like this about this case from y Cleff, Like because I was like, what's this song about, and I like looked it up and it's like, this is one of the biggest cop shootings that kind of started a lot of the you know, especially the NYPD racism against from the NYPD racism against black men and just like random shootings of people who are not even armed.

He was reaching for his wallet, Diallo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so you lived less than a mile away from Jones, but he fit the description probably just black. And so yeah, there was all these protests against Giuliani the police, and I'm like, I can't believe they're even trying to spin this, like to try to blame this other guy.

Like it's so it's crazy to me.

All the news kept saying the cops were looking for this man and killed another man, and that's Isaac's fault. And it's like, no, make me side with a rapist. You guys are fucking like so annoying to me, Like if it wasn't and one of the judges even said, like, if it wasn't for you, Amadu Diello would be live today, and it's like, well, he would be alive if the cops didn't shoot him forty one times.

Yeah, And if you're wondering, the cops were acquitted.

For sure, they were acquitted of the crime February two thousand and Yeah.

They thought the wallet was a gun. That's what they they thought, and they found them not guilty, and they're blaming this other guy. It's like so crazy.

So now Ronnie Shelton, we got Ronnie Shelton, the West Side.

Rape Little Ronnie Shelton. Wait, why'd you say that? I don't know, it just sound doesn't it sound like a guy that's like a dork in an eighties movie? Well, well it isn't little Ronnie Shelton more than two hundred counts of rape? Yeah, asshole, he would be fucking torn apart on the con air. They wouldn't have liked him. Oh yeah, wouldn't have enough body. That's what I mean for little Ronnie Shelton on conn Air.

That's right, all.

Right, whatever he got three thousand years, Why are these cases together? Like so, yeah, this guy got three thousand years for being convicted of more than two hundred counts of rape, longest sentence in Ohio history.

But he did take his own life and is dead. But it's crazy.

So September twentieth and you know when like a death happens or something different and then all the stuff you can find is about that and not the original news. Yeah, it was like so hard to dig back. I finally found some FBI reports, but it was just like.

That happens all the time, where you're like, you're just trying to find out what a serial killer did, and it's like he died recently, and you're like, I don't care about the death.

Give me like age twenty of Google. I'm like, what the fuck I'm typing in all these different other things of like original news victim timeline. Yeah, yes, but September twenty eighteen, he was found dead at the Grafton Correctional Institute.

And it's good he's dead. He was thirty years into his sentence, which is also a long time. But he jumped off the roof of the prison, so that I have a lot of questions. We don't know how he got on the roof, but his skull was fractured and he was fifty seven, damn. But I wonder if someone let him get on the roof because he wanted to die, like and Courty was like, give me the needle. I don't deserve to live. I sayah, I shouldn't have done it.

So I shouldn't have done It is kind of rough when you've done something two hundred times. Sorry, yeah, like a murder, a bank robbery, I shouldn't have done it, but like, yeah, you did it two hundred fucking times.

Bro.

I just can't believe raping so much. And so this is the eighties, so pre total DNA for sure. But he terrorized women in the eighties across Cleveland for six years. He was twenty eight years old when he was convicted of raping at least thirty women, and they knew it was one person because of them. And it's a again tied back to that episode. So he always said the same things, don't look at me, don't say anything, if you do that, you're gonna get hurt.

And that's like a local Channel three NBC affiliate in Cleveland.

But so he would say that he was finally captured on an ATM again using a victim card, Like what is up?

Stop doing that, I mean, get caught.

I'm happy, but like geez, yeah, so yeah, he was using a victim card. We got him on ATM on the ATM camera, but he was getting caught for voyeurism and he would like stake these women out for days, but for some reason they kept letting him go but also not tying him to any of the attacks, and which is strange. But I did find a reddit so because it was hard to find like sources for the things I needed. But there is a book that was written by James Nef that actually seems really really good

And in the book, this Reddit guy read the book and is talking about the book and he said how he would break into homes all the time and he's been a voyeur since he was young and kind of classic bad parents. He was beat a lot, you know, shit like that.

But it is like sounds exactly like the Cheshire Murder guys, like the guy one of the guys was like fully a voyeur, was doing tons of B and E and then accelerate, know, but leveled.

Up, honey. He lefveled up at twelve. At twelve, he was convicted of hammering a twelve year old dead and he also raped a twelve year old as a child.

Oh my god. So there was no rambing.

He truly was like like following this guy, Yeah, like how are we Wow? So the FBI report I found, you know, it's zot gov that he was exceptionally verbally degrading and vulgar. And while he would do it, he would always like he would bring up the voyeurism. So he's like, I've seen you with your boyfriend, I've seen you around you know who I am. You would have details about that and then these details are really fucked so but like you're listening.

To this podcast. But he would rape them vaginally, but he would ejaculate on them.

And so this is very like night stalker to me. The eighties, like you could just jiz and puke and like piss everywhere.

Yeah, because they weren't testing anything.

Yeah, So he was just like jerking off on every because he would mass stbade over them and use their clothing to wipe it off. He would then force like oral and manual rape and make them swallow as well, but yeah, chaotic loose with the fluids, and then the the and the fbim O was entering a victim's dwelling.

Why dwelling? What are you guys trying to be so poetic? Dwelling? Is that a thing? I don't know? We're losing it.

So his emo, he would go through a window or a patio entrance that faced a wooded area or bushes. He wore ski mask, stocking, or scarf. He would convince the victim he was just there to rob them, not rape them. But then once he had him under control, he would go into rape mode and he would tell them to keep your eyes down, cover your eyes, don't look at me. I will kill you or hurt your kids.

I did like it. The other one stay also too.

Yeah, but it was like he would take their licenses or something, or he would always say I'll come back and yeah.

Yeah, and he was a cop.

Yeah, but I because I liked in the episode that it was like, I'm not going to insult you, like you're gonna call the cops. Yeah, yeah, it is kind you know, he's a good boy rapist. He wants to be seen as a good guy. Isn't that what they said in it?

Yeah?

They did. But like he's so smarmy, like I can't even imagine gentleman. Yeah, and you can't call a rapist a gentleman. But you guys get what I'm saying. Okay, so whatever before we.

Don't get into the psychology in the episode, but I think that kind of guy is like these women probably would love this because I'm amazing. I make so much money, I'm rich, like whatever, Like they they just don't know that they want it, you know. Yeah, and that's why he gets pissed when he tries to kiss them and they like pull away.

He's like, why wouldn't you want this? I'm amazing?

Yeah, So intimidation, and he picked victims he could control, manipulate, and who he could project his anger onto. And then in nineteen eighty nine, at his trial, according to Channel three, none of the girls for who I Okay, So he said, none of the girls for who I am responsible for, deserved what happened to them. So you know, okay, this is the judge I want to have sex with.

Okay, So Timothy J.

McGuinty, he's an assistant Cuyahoga County prosecutor, but he handled the case and then became a judge and then chief prosecutor. But he said, I'm so glad these ladies outlived that son of a bitch.

That's kind of hot ap news.

He also praised more than the third more than thirty women who came forward to press charges even after this motherfucker taunted them and told them he knew where their children went to school and where their mothers lived and threatened to kill them and their families if they went to the police. And then, this is my favorite judge mcinty to Cleveland dot Com he said he was the devil's disciple. I've never met a person that evil. I don't know, Like these judges are getting poetic, Like, I

You know.

Yeah, maybe I was just horny.

I don't know why I was like so obsessed with these judges quotes. I'm like reading them back being like, I guess they're fine, but whatever, No, and then if you want more information, the book like Jim Knaff published in nineteen ninety four called Unfinished Murder, The Capture of a Serial Rapist Gez Louis.

I mean, there's also something so sick about like being like I'm just gonna rob you and like kind of getting people to like, calm down, well, it's not you.

And it also was like to get them used to the violence and know that he was going to be violent because like they would, they would because he would. He would be violent, and then they would chill during the robbing and then he would go back, but they they were already scared. I guess that was like part of them too.

But if you're just sitting there thinking, Okay, he's just gonna take my jewelry and then he's gonna get the fuck out of here, and then he does, like it's awful. I mean, it's all awful, but Jesus Christ, a wild double episode, wild crimes. Let's we don't have a guest today, so let's just jump right into the post mortem. Thank you for riding with us through a double episode. I try to recap as quick as my little brain can

And it's just an old It's like.

They really reiterate how damaging it is to be assaulted and the aftermath and all of that. But this one, it truly is like slowed down in such an impactful way.

I would say, yeah, and like I like I was saying earlier, like sure, we've seen that from them now a few times, but this being like the first time. You're like, you guys really were so fucking ahead of your time in like two thousand, like doing you know episodes like that. So I and we got to see Benson in bed. Yeah, the beeper king fighting over a beeper in bed. It was amazing. What was I What

We gotta get we gotta do Behave at some point.

But I mean, that's what we're waiting There are some we're waiting out for. We're not doing that without Jennifer love Hewett.

We are not. And did I want to know? I know what you did last summer? This week? I did you did original or the brand new? No? I watched the original? Oh I forgot about the new one.

No.

I was in the background while I did research for our podcasts. It's spooky season.

Yeah, I think that the newest one my at least my brother in law told me it was kind of trash.

So I don't know if I'm going to watch it. I mean, I've watched horror movies where it's like a killer sloth at a sorority house. I think it can like bad. I know what you did.

That one really scared me. I know what you did last summer of the original, Like I saw it in the theater and like I was in high school and was, so did they clean all.

Those crabs out so fast from the trunk? It's hard to move a dead body, like there are some you know.

This is kind of my problem with like campy horror classics is I think about logistics too much, and I feel like that might be that's the virgo in me. I am like, how they do that and no one saw that, but like I'm always like thinking about that kind of crap, you know. Same when I'm watching for you, I'm trying to find holes, plot holes, baby, But I don't know. The post mortem takeaway from this episode is like, yeah, never say to a person, why didn't you go to

Sure there's shoes.

But it's also like thinking you've moved on when you haven't and just being frozen in time. And it's just like, I don't know with this, we're not even in the time machine, but like we do this while we're also recording like full episodes and you'll know what I'm talking about, but researching certain crimes, it's just like it's so sickening the idea of like ruining a man's future while ignoring that being a victim of this type of crime is forever.

Yeah, the trauma is forever.

And I don't know, like it just kills me that it's even a discussion that we have to like plead and beg and be like wait, wait, what about this woman's future.

Yeah, we're we're literally about to record an episode where this is like fucking it's rue it.

And we're worried if a guy is gonna be able to work again or not. I know, I'm so sick of it. I'm so sick. Oh my god, I saw the best fucking tweet or meme or whatever. I'm online twelve hours a day. I don't know what it was, but it's that's something like sexism towards men isn't true because it isn't real, because I've been trying to make it real for years.

And I loved that where it's like, oh, I've been trying to ruin men's lives forever. It doesn't see it's not working. It's not working.

Some of the worst guys we know are getting chance after a fucking chance, you know my god.

One of them said, something is so weird to me. I can't, I can't.

These pedophiles are running rampant, and it's like, Bro, I've been trying to avoid you, like my body language and the way I treat you has changed so much, Like you really need me to spell it out for you.

You really need me to go.

I'm uncomfortable with the rumors about you and the crimes you've committed, and I want you to stop fucking trying to talk to me, Like, is that what needs to happen? Me truly turning away, shrinking, being uncomfortable, not asking that none of that is and.

It's so it's so it's weird because it's like you'd think that these guys would be like, oh, fuck the haters, but they do try to get everyone to like them, especially the ones that don't.

They dig in and.

You know, everyone's still talking about the Saudi Arabia festival.

Oh my god.

Well, you know we did get like one comment where people were like, the and you okay, so Lisa did this show that I threw in New York. We were all talking about this backstage, and we were talking about it with like Josh Sharp and Jay Jorden, and people are like, the US is bad too. Don't act like our government's not doing horrible shit. A. We know, we talk about it all the fucking time. B Neither of us is performing at the behest of Donald Trump. Like,

It's not the same thing.

Yeah, it's cliff Tony Hinchcliffe performed at a Republican and we hate him and I judge him and I think less of him, and I didn't even think much of him to begin with. So it's like you're not catching anything that you're trying to catch, and stop trying to like this is our industry. But yeah, doing a show for people, it's a detailed matter. The government who is signing your check does matter. Yeah, and if I found out someone was performing for ICE or our president, yeah,

Yeah, that like I saw a video that I know you saw because I saw.

You liked it.

That was like, you know, talking about Taylor's consumerism and someone's like girl while you're drinking a diet coke and it's like, what was she supposed to stand like naked in front of a brick wall while she makes this thing like yes, we're all consuming. No one is saying stop consuming things like it's just like I don't know.

Everybody's what about? What about? All the time. It's driving me crazy.

Yeah, but you went and did a show for people that did nine to eleven.

I'm gonna have an issue.

And I think it's different than if you did a show for like, I don't know, if you went to Kentucky and performed I don't.

Know, right, like a red state. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, don't agree with their government. Still the government is. But also were the people allowed? Were women allowed to come watch this show? Are gay people even allowed to live there?

Like?

What are we even talking about? I was at that show though. Any video from that show it's half empty. I did not see one arena.

Any video.

I figured phones would have been massively confiscated and they'd be like, what are you talking about?

It's propaganda videos.

They're like they're truly making videos of Like I had so much fun in Saudi Arabia. I can't believe I didn't want to go sooner, Like they're making videos doing the customs being like we were treated so oh well.

Oh no oh no. But I mean like footage of the show like.

And it's like, yeah, it's like, uh, it's like one of the comics walking out and you look out into the venue and like more empty seats than filled seats.

WHOA embarrassing. Well, it's also embarrassing.

And it's also and what we were saying was it's like it's it's fine, do whatever you want.

But Bill Burr, shut your mouth.

Yeah, you know, three years ago on your podcast there's you're talking shit about celebrities doing gigs over there, and now you're doing it and on your podcast talking about how great it was. It's fine, do whatever you want. We're all hypocrite. It's like watch my Netflix special. I do a joke about this, but like then I don't want to hear what you have to say.

But that's the funny thing too, is like he was kind of kind of trying to spin it like but I was performing, performing for the regular people of Saudi Arabia. It's like, is that who was coming were the regular people of Saudi Arabia coming like I feel like it's the only people that were at these shows were like connected to the government, like right, like elites like right.

It's not fair to other people at I mean, I have no idea.

I know one of the most famous comics, her wife was disappeared because she drove a car I don't know.

And yeah, and I heard that that he's back and she's still missing. He got disappeared and so did his wife.

And he's listen, I'm meeting up with lots of people. Go you wouldn't go. That's what I keep I interacted with a few other people that went to somebody saying that same to me, what's your price? What's your price for the rial comedy? Fives? But enough money.

It's not even hypothetical the idea of like, well, you wouldn't. There are people who declined it. There are dozens of people who declined it. It's not some hypothetical thing of who can say no or not. Stop saying you would do it when there are you would do it.

You wouldn't.

But there are people who said no. So there are people who were who didn't take the money, who were offered it. So stop acting like it's this thing that no one could say no to when people already.

Did say no to it.

Yeah, people are like, it's life changing money. I'm like, I don't know half of it's going to taxes and agents. It's not life is And if you decide you want to do it, fucking do it.

You know what I mean. I did a show with Louis c K. I knew he took his dick out.

I don't know, Like we're all of what's going on, and I don't think I'm more or less ethical or moral than these people. But I'm allowed to judge you over the fuck I want and be a guy or whatever I want.

Paul he fracks, I mean, come on, we can't be perfect, but we're trying our best and we're not going to read.

For me, it's not even about any ethics.

To me, I would not feel safe, and my life is worth more than my parents grieving for my death.

I don't care.

Yeah I would, I would. I would not go for safety, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I would be scared. So I don't care if it's a million dollars.

And I'm sorry these people were making less, but I also don't dream of extreme wealth that's not the life I live.

What are we talking about?

We just want enough to go on the fucking below deck yacht. That's not that's not that extreme, Like we just want that. I get ice, coffees, I don't drive.

I don't know. I buy weed and.

Trinkets like get me Like, I don't give a fuck one dude that way. I was like, well, my wife said, we'll pay for the wedding. It's like, okay, I don't know why you think that's a necessity of life, but sure go have a giant wedding.

Yeah, you're already that extreme wealth though.

I feel like you'd have a driver, you'd be like Seema, you'd have a driver, a cool little around the city.

To be wealthy, and I make lots of choices not to be I don't know.

Yeah, okay, So what would sister Peg do? Our weekly segment where we try to help make the world a little bit better and direct you to an organization, a doc something to give you more information about what we talked about in today's episode, but also a lot of times organizations that are trying to help victims, marginalized communities.

Et cetera.

And today listen, we're pointing you to an old standby. We've pointed you to them before, but it's RAIN. It's the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. They are the nation's largest anti sexual violence organization and operator of the National Sexual Assault Hotline. I truly believe in supporting them. I have no idea if they get government subsidy at all, but I'm sure they're on there. If they do, they're on their way to going away. So support that organization

Go over and give us a follow.

Hell yeah, and next week we will be doing Probability of Doom Season twenty five, episode seven.

Thank you all so much for watching we love it. We love you guys, See you next week.

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