Chameleon w/ Sharon Lawrence

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories done done, Hey bitches, It's That's Messed Up an SVU podcast. My name is Lisa Traeger and my name is Kara Klank.

And every week we dive into an episode of Law and Order SVU, we get out of the pool, we dive back into the true crime. Then we interview an artist, an actor, someone involved with the episode. And before all that, we just chat and check in on each other's lives. Lisa, you always have fun shit going on.

Yeah, because we don't text NonStop it Yeah, all times, we have to check up through zoom. Well, I do have some spooky season news. I feel like I might have watched this as a kid. I don't know, but I watched Alvira with my friend in Chicago, and it was such an enjoyable experience and so ahead of her time.

Wow, I've seen like so much Alvira, but I don't know if I've seen like a full No, we just.

Watch We just watched drag Race. We just know, how's your head? A kid, I knew who Elvira was when I was a kid.

It was like I've seen like bits, but I don't think i'd ever seen like the full movie. But yeah, she's ann and she just came out after like two decades or something.

And yeah, it's really timely. But she was ahead of her time in the subject matter, the humor and everything. And I was with my friend Marty and him and his girl Sarah. They love you like they are the king and queens of YouTube clips, like we watch old commercials like they always have a new genre of YouTube. Should have showed me. And so right after we watched it, they were like, let's watch Roger and Ebert talk about it. And then we watched Roger and Ebert talk about Elvira.

That is one of my favorite things to do, and that's something I didn't really start doing until LA. Like I don't know why I didn't do this with people in New York. Maybe it was just like when people started getting smart TVs where like their TVs were hooked up to YouTube.

Was more like around when I was in and out of.

LA, but like going to people's houses and just being like, oh no, this is my favorite video and like just show it. Like watching a bunch of like funny YouTube clips is like really fun.

Yeah, but they're like professionals, So anything I suggest, they're like, oh yeah, they we've seen that. Oh okay, And I'm like, okay, cool, Like I am never the ones suggesting everything I suggest. They're like, that's from nine years ago. Oh, I mean it's it's when I messaged you go you and my all like this teen singing paparazzi at a show and I sent it to Dave Mazzonia Matt Rogers and they

I'm the same. I'll be like, have you seen the kid? I'll be like, have you seen the man Tito lip sync?

The news?

Like guys or like I just watched Like yeah, i will watch the shit that's so old, and I'll watch the same ones over and over.

That really cracked me up. But I'm like, have you seen Charlie bit my finger?

And they're like, yeah, have you seen that kid that's at the State Fair going?

Oh?

Apparently apparently YouTube? So that was my spooky season thing. And I am doing a show at Union Hall in New York City on Halloween.

Oh yes, this episode comes out a few days before Halloween. So if you haven't gotten tickets, We've posted about in our stories, but go to Lisa's page Glitter Cheese on Instagram and get all the scoop on that New York show because that's going to be dope. And Union Hall is such a fun venue and not huge, so tickets will go and it will sell out, So got them quickly.

Yeah, and it's the start of the night, so then you can party all night. I just knew if I didn't have structured fun, I wouldn't wear a costume. And I knew I wanted to be fun like I need.

Are you are you announcing in advance what your costume is because I know what it is? Or are you waiting for people to see it?

I have to wait? I have to ready. Yeah, but I think I'm going to be a hit. I think New York City is going to come out for me. I think they're going to be excited for what I am offering. Well, it's gonna be in West Nayak the weekend before. Listen, I'm on the road and I, oh, it's eleven eleven. Make a wish. Oh, you guys don't know. You can be listening to this at all times. But it just hit eleven eleven, which means we're doing everything right in our lives. We're on the right path, and

She did thought she sent us a message, but I didn't realize that. Lee's never mind, you guys get it. But like she did respond, so I, you.

Know, no, I think the reason is and I read about the ears. So with tattoos, like you have to be careful, but after a few days, like it's fine, you know, it's it'll be fine. But piercings, I didn't really They're an open wound, yeah, and you have to treat it like a wound. So I accidentally, I think in Chicago while partying, maybe didn't wash it for a day or two, or like I slept on my dirty

So oh yeah, that's like maybe that might be like an old wives tale, yeah thing and.

It's like your dirty hands and in the cut, so I think it was just like a two day Like I was just like kind of shady for two days and that was enough to get infected. And I was like, oh, yes, piercings are wounds. Tattoos are also wounds, but they're just more relaxing to take care of. I think for sure this is two months.

It's gonna hurt, oh girl, as I told you when I was a kid, and yes, I was a kid, so I'm sure it was like dirty and I'm sure my mom.

Did not get me like pure gold jewelry.

But like I went through like two years of in and out of having my ears infected, but now they're perfect, Like I can not wear earrings, wear earrings like, well, I can wear cheap earrings, I can wear anything. Like my ears are like I'm just indestructible now. But it did take like some time to toughen them up.

And it's just embarrassing to go through this much pain because I want to be like Emma Chamberlain. The only reason I want second second Pierce Tolls is because of a twenty year old YouTuber and that and now I'm like infected and in pain and can't sleep, like it is pretty Upsey. I gotta do what you gotta do. You're you're an influencer on the rise. I'm trying, so I do want to give a shout out. So I got to stay at the Drake Hotel in Chicago, which was my childhood dream. And did I talk about this

I would never I would have been like, oh cool, your company sends you to Chicago.

Nido, what do you do? No, Immediately I'm like brand name. I was embarrassed to put my fanny pack on the bar because of his Louis wallet. But fifteen weeks in the fall is just so specific. So I got to like hang out with this cool football player and I was like, this is this is what dreams are made out of. And at the Drake they have couches in the elevator. You could take a seat if you want.

Ooh wow, I've never seen a couch in an elevator.

That's excited. Yeah, just see. And I found an Instagram called eating in Bed and my new goal in life is to be featured on it.

Oh, anyone got the tip for Lisa to get on eating in bed? I am actually the opposite, as so much of our personality is are opposite.

I never eat in bed, and it makes me nervous to do it. Yeah. No, Sometimes I'm sleeping and I feel crumbs all around me. It is part of no.

I listened to this podcast with Casey Wilson and she constantly she has like full meals in bed, and she talks about it all the time, and it's just like that. It gives me anxiety even to hear her talk about it. I'm like, oh my god, you're eating like a huge, like a huge takeout meal in a hotel. I have done it because I don't care as much. But in my own personal bed, no, Well, I also don't have a table, so it's tough.

It makes it difficult.

No.

The trick in hotels is if you have two beds, once for eating sleeping. Yeah. Yeah, Wait, are you telling people for Halloween or are you keeping it secret too? Yours is a good costume, you know what.

I actually saw Georgia on the weekend and was like we were going to tell each other our costumes and then we're like, let's just wait and like find out. So I'm not going to say because I don't want anyone. I don't know, not that I even know if Georgia listens to our podcast. But I was just like, I'm keeping it secret. So I'll tell you guys. You'll see, We'll put our costumes on our Instagram, right, We'll like take pictures and show on our Instagram like what we were for Halloween.

So oh oh yes, I will be and mine is so obvious. I won't even have to do a side by side of the real thing, like you'll see and you'll be like, wow, yeah. It also might be a popular one this year too. I don't. I don't really who knows, I don't know.

I think yours is really fun and yours is a very I think both of us are doing, if you know, you know, kind of costumes. Your description of the Drake kind of reminded me of the Campbell Apartment. Have you ever been there in New York? Never even heard of it. It's this really like beautiful bar right off of it's attached to Grand Sound, and it's what you're describing like dark leather, old money, Like the drinks.

Are like twenty dollars, you know, like it's but it's uh.

Next time you're in New York, if you want that kind of experience, you should go well.

And you know, some people commented like, oh, but that's like a powerful move, and then some people. I don't know, but it was fun to be sitting in the tea room in a sweatshirt while like high as hell, while everyone is in tuxedos gowns, really dressed up for the affair, and I was just like postmating dunkin Donuts to the Titanic. I just heading down in my brawsers sweatpants and so I liked that. And then I stole the door sign, of course, so I have my drink door.

I always have to create a memory for myself. You're very vivian at the plaza or whatever. No, No, where is she theis?

No? No, I'm talking to woman woman okay, eloise hit the plase. No, No, what she's saying. I'm pretty woman like the Beverly Hilton or something like that. But I don't remember. But she was more slutty, I mean, if I could, Yeah, she's more slutty, but.

She was definitely kind of like, I don't care, you know that vibe?

Yeah, you have nothing to prove here. It feels nice. It feels nice to be so chill. Also, last night I ran into someone that's obsessed with forensic files and we got to talk back and forth about our favorite forensic files and everyone around us was disgusted and why. And I met someone else that collects Simpson's toys. I had a really what a weekend, a real wild weekend. And I don't know if I told you this. I ran into Asafali. Do you know him? Yeah, you guys

And I was like, wow, that's there's there's a reason you have a born to chat bitcoin tattoo on your body.

I mean, you are you are born to chat. That's who I watched Alvira with as who I have the matching tattool right right right. But I just was like laughing so hard that they kept they just like we just couldn't stop talking. Oh wait, do you love that Joe Cooy and Chelsea Handler are in love? Because I do. Yeah, it's cute.

It's so funny to me, because I was obsessed with Chelsea Handler, Like I was obsessed with the show Chelsea. I like I watched it like truly every night, and like he was always on, and like I never even saw a spark between them, do you know what I mean? Like I never saw any kind of thing like that. And so when she heard really announced it, I was like, is this a gag? And then I was like, oh my god, they're so happy, and like she seems so excited.

I'm happy for her, yeah, and she commented like age is a wonderful thing or something like that. Yeah, Like, I don't know, I like love their love and I'm ready for this journey.

It's a lot, I feel like where people grow up and then they realize that their old friend is kind of like the one you know, I mean yeah.

Yeah, and they're both like successful and funny and attractive. And then Ausuf brought this up, but he's like, and they're age appropriate. That never happens in Hollywood. You have Dane Cook fucking stroll in high school. So it's it's exciting to I don't know. I'm like I they can never post enough. I want more and more.

Oh yeah, they're probably going to have a really fun like Instagram life and then the breakup could be explosive.

But let's hope they know. I'm gonna see wedding picks. I'm on that train. I love true love.

Yeah yeah, yeah, No, I'm definitely I'm happy for her, Like you know, I.

Have a new crush and I'm trying to not repeat patterns and project everything onto this person and be casual at this. Yes you do, oh yes, I do, Yes, I do yes. I do. Sorry, Sorry so annoying I do. Oh my god, Sorry, I.

Just thought for a second it was a different thing.

I was like, I know about it, of course, and I'm trying to stake Oh my god, we have to move on. But we have to talk about the news too, before we get into this horrific episode. Actually I hit well because it's just whatever. I'm making connections to sex and the city that don't even make sense. But there was news. I didn't go too much into it because things like this upset me, and most of Kara and my lives are researching horrific things, so sometimes I try

This popped up on my red This popped up on

And all these people just watch.

And are like ugh, and it's like very you know, I'm sure everybody wants to bring in like Kitty Genevez and like the bystander effect and everything, but that scene haunted me. And then that's exactly what just happened. And it's like I understand everybody thinks they're helping by getting shit on video, but like if there's a way that you can help without endangering yourself.

Or you know, you're stopping a rape, like what the fuck?

Yeah, it's really so horrific, Like I can't even.

And it's a group of you, like you could have done it. I mean, I never mind my business, but you never know what you're how you're gonna act in the moment. You know, you think you're preps for stuff, and then you know, it's what we talk about. You can't act normal and abnormal circumstances. But I just can't imagine sitting watching someone get raped. There's no fucking way. And I actually know that because I have intervened in multiple things throughout my life. Content.

Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean hopefully they caught they got the guy, right. I mean I didn't even look into it enough, but I hope they got the guy.

They got the guy. Hannah knows they got the guy.

I think the most horrific thing though about the news article is that it lasted over six minutes in the previous forty five minutes before he was harassing her in front of people. Oh so that really people need to step up their case.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Like if you're just sitting there and taping it, I feel like you should be like ashamed of yourself.

It's like, it's like horrific. I bet those people will hope fully live with this guilt and shame for the rest of their lives. I hope it weighs heavy on them forever. Yeah, because it is.

Go get a conductor, Go get like I don't know, go get somebody a ress.

The emergence the emergency thing.

Like there's ways you can do if you feel physically anxious or you that you are like know, compromised in a way that you can't help physically, like there's got you know, there's things you can do, like Jesus.

But what is it? What is it? Is it? Like I is it the I don't want to be wrong?

Is it?

It's not my business? Is it? Maybe she want? Like what is in the minds of the people.

I think it's a fear usually, I mean I don't know, Like I said, like I feel I just told you guys this story off camera. But like I one time, my sister and I walked him on to a huge crowd watching a homeless guy get beat up, and I got right up to the guy's face, and my sister was halfway down the block, like she's so such a nervous person, like that flight is her response and fight was more my response. And that's just I think that's

There's other things you can do. And you know what, I actually have a positive way to get us into this episode that is not watching someone get raped on a train and it is Alyssa a friend, a comedian, a baker. Our friend, Lindsay Adams got secret married this weekend. Yes, so congrats Lindsay. If you're listening, I know you are.

Thank you, Lindsay for allowing your marriage to segue us into our episode and off of this horrific news.

I knew you did it.

For us and we just if you guys watched the live show, she was one of our comedians that came on and did trivia when we did our virtual live show. And we're so happy for them. I love them so much.

Yeah. So Lindsay and Nick cool. They've been together for like a decade.

Yeah, they did like a fun courthouse thing, but they looked really beautiful and it was awesome. But yeah, let's get going. We have a classic p for you today and an amazing interview and yeah, just we have a lot of stuff for you.

Oh right.

Chameleon Baby, Season four, Episode one, the premiere.

Of season four of Long Orders for You. They're really hitting their stride here.

Not to be confused with a really great podcast that I think I've shouted out on this podcast before called Chameleon that I was really obsessed with the first season I haven't watched the second season, but I mean, listen to it.

But it's great anyway.

We open on some kind of like very techno since party happening.

I don't know.

Maybe it's a sex club. You don't really know what it is. Initially everybody is lots of butts are being grabbed. It's safe to say it's a sex club.

You I don't know.

I never in New York was like, oh, that's a sex club walking by a place, but I guess some clubs have sexy nights. I don't know, Liza, any.

Sex clubs, so you are, yeah, but you have to know. It's like if you know, you know, you're not.

You can't. You're not going to walk by and just see a sex club. I went to clubs where like people were doing coke and stuff. I never was like, oh, hey, we're going to a sex club to night, or like none of my friends were like the other day I went to a sex club, Like, I don't know. We maybe we have separate friends. Yeah, oh, maybe we have separate friends. We definitely do have a lot of separate friends. So I'm asking you to tell me.

Yes, there are sex clubs in New York have you gone to Canada, I have not known. Oh, okay, but they exist. No, I know, Oh I know, I know, I know. I'm just saying.

In my experience of New York, I was like I was at clubs that were letting you sneak cigarettes when the laws first changed. I was never in a sex club, but maybe never say never, Okay, so you know, you definitely know it's a sex club because suddenly the NYPD raids the place that doesn't really happen at like Marquis. So there's a few like makeshift fuck stalls in the back, so it is very much a sex club.

And there's a bar in a DJ of course at this sex club.

And then one of the sex workers is telling the cops that a guy tried to rape her, and this one cop is being very two thousand and two about it. He's like, if they don't pay you, it's not rape, it's theft of service, like he's very not sensitive to sex work. And she insists that she was attacked and wants to report it. And now Benson and Stable are on the scene and this douchey Wall Street guys walking by them and he goes, I didn't know what kind of club. This was like he's me being like, is

Suffer from ago when having your fly down was the most embarrassing thing that could ever happen, and now it's like, truly, we were with people and I was like, your flies down. Someone zipped it and it meant nothing, Like it wasn't embarrassing and nothing. It means nothing anymore. Yeah, it was like the hugest embarrassment that you could ever live through.

Yeah, you would say X, y Z like code words to let people know that their fly was down.

It was.

It was truly, Yeah, definitely a humiliating moment back in the day.

Now maybe we've embraced it.

The name of the sex worker who's making the report says her name is she and Tilly, but it's actually they were like, let's get your real name, babe, and she's like, it's Lisa Perez and she actually played by Sara Ramirez from Grey's Anatomy fame and this is her second appearance on SVU. Actually, I'm sorry, but Shantilly does not roll off the tongue.

I know. That's not a sexy name or an easy name or a fun name to say at all. You know.

The only thing I could think of for the angle would be like, if you're trying to get like southern businessmen that are there like being turists, like Shantilly has like a Southern kind of like genteel thing to it that that's my only grasp at a straw for that name. It's not a great sexy name. No, So they're Benson and Stabler aren't really giving Shantilly the time of day either. They're kind of like, okay, what happened, and like Stabler is like very much rolling his eyes while he gets

I like a diva, you like, yeah, no, I was just wondering.

Your your sense of it compared to Shantilly.

Well, no, Goodiva, rich, smooth, delicious. I understand that, you know, elegant.

That's yeah, that's not a for Rochet, that's a Goodiva baby, right right, Okay, So Goodiva has worked in the club a little over a year.

I kind of love the name Godiva. Now I'm having a moment seeing another future for my life.

A screen name, something a tattoo could work.

Something good dive into your life. Well, because I used to tell you if you sign up for the Godiva Club, you can get one free chocolate a month. Oh yeah, I would take a nie, sir, a nephew to them all and I'd be like, get a snack, babe, and I'll get them one chocolate.

Whoa cool aunt with the chocolates.

You know, Chantilly is a type of frosting, right, No, someone will call you out on it if you never watched bake Off.

It's a type of very sweet frosting for a cake. So they kind of go hand.

Maybe that's why I think of Chantilly lace.

I don't know. We'll cut it. Wait wait, wait, why don't we leave it in?

We obviously have got two non British Bakeoff people here, and if we can avoid people, if I can avoid seventy five DM saying Shantilli's a frosting, I'd love to. So we find out that good Dive has worked in this club a little over. Ye, she's got two priors for prostitution, and Lisa Slash Chantilly is like sassing the cops. She's like, oh, you guys are taking a break, and then she's like nudging the sketch artist's arms like she's

But they're the sake of television, very rock Sy Andrews, Yeah, thick and juicy of her way to go.

Baby, Yeah, it was like a wig and a wig reveal, Yes for sure. And Lisa says, you know what, like nobody watches out for us, we watch out for ourselves. I should have listened to Sister Peg. She warned them about this, like asshole who's out there trying to choke girls out. So now we go to talk to Sister Peg, the patron saint of good people.

Sister Peg keeps a bad trick list.

Like John's to avoid and you know, they take a look at it and they're kind of making fun of it, which is like rude, that's like, oh, this guy punches you,

It's like, you can't take offense from.

Sister Pat and she says she'll show the sketch that they have to the girls, the sketch that Lisa Seles hintil he was working on, which was really funny because I forgot to mention like this the sketch artist was like, can you stop bumping my shoulder like while she was he was doing the sketch and she was just not giving a fuck. A very chaotic energy in the precinct and I liked it in.

A silky turk boy's dress.

Anyway, Now they're talking to Warner about Randy's body if she's giving them the rundown like that.

Randy was kind of had a lot of STI.

She had heppie hepsi pid. She was twenty three years old, and had she lived, she probably would have been like unable to have kids. Like I don't know, so I guess she's been through a lot. The cause of death is strangulation. She was hung with the belt postmartem, so that's not actually what killed her. And it looks like the person used their forearm to choke her because there's like an impression of a button on her neck so

Same exact sort of scenario.

When they get to this crime scene, there's a woman, a working girl, hanging from a fence.

Here.

Warner finds a perfect thumbprint in lipstick around this girl's face somewhere. So they tracked down a man named Sean Becker, convicted of assault and attempted rape years ago, like in ninety four, so years earlier, and he's been out. Yeah, he got out of jail three weeks ago. Oh my god, he's reoffending. Who could have suggested that? Who could have

The gun went off.

So when they get there, they open the door and there's a woman sort of like scantily clad, holding a gun and saying I shot him.

And this is Sharon Lawrence.

This actress is Sharon Lawrence, who is very well known for NYPD Blue. She's been on Desperate Housewives. I mean her IMDb is extensive. She has very prolific but I always remember her as a big role on NYPD Blue for years and years in the nineties. Anyway, Shawn Becker is next to the bed dead, blood etc.

Yeah done, I'm for vigilante justice. I don't care. You heard it here first? Yeah, killing right.

So at the hospital they're talking to this woman and calling her debuta.

Do you think it would be psychotic or cool. If we went to New York and did a tour of all the motels that all the sex workers have stayed in, and stay at all the at the Palm Hotel, in all these places.

I would go to a tour. I would not stay in them. Okay, I go to you.

You wouldn't want to take some clients and do a full on, a full on documentary experience. Yeah.

So they're talking to Debra about what happened, And.

I don't know.

It's funny to me because Sharon Lawrence just like has I don't know. I just don't know if I like buy her as this like sex worker. But that might be my own biases or something. But it's just an interesting casting. But she is, she's they're calling her Debor and she basically explained, she's like, I asked him to settle up, and he hit me and he just kept hitting me. He threw me on the bed, he raped me. He pulled out a gun.

We fall. He dropped the gun. I grabbed it. I shot him three times. We both reached we were Do you know that we both reached for the gun? Oh? Yes, so yes, yes, yes, yes, So that's the booth they both. Yeah, that's what I was trying to get that rhythm. But yeah, I love that.

Yeah, I love Chicago, the city and the musical.

I think it's the best movie musical of all time. I have never seen a better movie musical than Chicago. Interesting. I think it's the best one ever made. Yeah, it's very good. I mean I saw it on No.

I'm trying to think because I'm like, no, Rent, the movie really was bad. Hannah, you're a musical person. What are the other musicic movie musicals?

I would say I liked Hairspray.

Oh I've never saw Oh I do love Hairspray better it was Oscar Worthy. Yeah, I never saw Hairspray, but that's a good call.

Yeah. Yeah, very very good.

But I did see it on Broadway with Babe Newarth, and that's like one of my most treasured memories because she's a legend and nsvu elum.

Okay.

So basically, this feels like we know it's not over because we know we're watching a television show, but this feels like it's over right, Like Stabler's talking a Cabot and she's like everything checks out for self defense, pretty open and shut. We're not going to press charges against her. She was defending herself. And then we are at ballistics with Munch and Finn and we find out that there's another body on this gun, meaning that another body, another

All her info was fake, her social was fake, etc.

Craigan sends Benson and Stabler to the twenty two to investigate what happened with the Leonard Graves murder. The twenty second precinct and Munch and Finn go to try to track down Debra, who they're calling Mystery Hooker, not my words, but kind of a fun name for maybe a movie or something. About a month after Leonard died, his credit card bill had been run up and signed by missus Leonard Graves.

And the description was only that she was blonde.

And one of the biggest charges on the credit card was to Fao Schwartz storied toy store in the middle of New York.

But why did they close? There was also one in Chicago and stuff, and why did they not survive?

The only reason I can think that they didn't survive is because of where they're located. I mean, like it's located truly, like right near the Apple Store, right near the plaza, Like it just must be a very very expensive location to be selling toys.

I guess. I don't know. It's crazy though, because I went there and there.

Oh, I took Rosie there like two Christmases ago when she was a baby, and I got her a little key chain that she has on her diaper bag. I mean, it's like it's a rite of passage to take a kid to Fao Schwartz. I didn't even realize that they'd fully shut until you.

Said that, well did they. Did you ever have an Fao Sweets?

No, we had an Fao Sweet attached to the Fao Schwartz and the Old Orchard mall.

Wow, And it was like just all good candy. Yeah, like you know those bins and scoop bat Yeah, scoopy scoopy candy. That was hard as an immigrant kid to convince your parents because there's also a sweet factory in the mall. But like to them, it's like the eighteen dollars for a pound. It is insane, but it is so fun. I love the school, yeah, to get all different kinds.

You know what I love getting at places like that are chocolate covered gummy bears.

I love chocolateming. We've never talked about this, No, I love chocolate covered gummy bears. They're one of my favorite things.

They're very rare to find, Yeah, but they're almost only at scoop places.

Oh my god, I can't believe we didn't know this because I learned we both like Junior Men's a few months ago. But now this is a whole new level.

This is I mean, this is what's great is we're still finding things to defind out about each other.

I also love like the little pastel, rainbow colored little minty yogurt chip looking things with little white sprinkles on it.

Oh yeah, those I actually always think are going to be gross, and then when I eat them, I think that they're so good.

Yeah, I love it. I thought you're about to say chocolate covered almonds and I was like, this sucks, and then it took such a turn.

No, I love a chocolate covered gummy bear so good. Okay, So the Fao Schwartz thing is is like a Okay, that's like a clue for them. And then meanwhile, Munch and Finn track a call that was made from the hospital during Deborah's stay in the hospital to a daycare, and the daycare was like, uh, They're like, oh, we got this. We saw this call that came in and who was that And they're like, oh, that was Maggie. This one has an encyclopedic memory for all calls that come in at her daycare and she's.

Like, well, from the hospital, you'd remember if someone was in the hospital. Yeah right, I guess, yeah sure. And so even if it was three months ago, if someone was like, did someone from the hospital call you, I'd believe.

Oh, but I didn't know that the hospital was like, actually divulge like I thought Maggie just made a phone call from the hospital saying, Hi, it's me I'll be late picking up my son, not like it's me calling from the hospital.

But you're right, maybe she did say that. Uh, were you one of those people that if you went to the hospital, you keep your hospital bracelet on for a long time to show off.

I never went to the hospital. Oh but who did that? People still do it for adult still. It's a thing they want you to ask what happened?

Oh my god?

I like even you and I just went to a festival and we had to have like we had to wear bracelets the entire time for to show that we were vaccinated, and I wanted to take it off every night, like I don't like to go to sleep with Like.

I actually did show anything the night after, Like we landed and had a show that night, and there were multiple people still wearing their bracelets with me. That's fun.

Yeah, I just like, so, I'm definitely not a person that would wear my hospital bracelet. Like the only time I've been to the hospital is to have my kids, and I was like, snip, snip, but I did keep them as keepsakes anyway. So the woman at the daycare is like, oh, yeah, Maggie called. She told us she'd been mugged and that she wanted to pick up her son, joey early, and now they're on a little vacation together.

And she.

Maggie Peterson is her full name. So Benson went through viscap, which, if you remember, is like the computer system that police departments can use to check likem os so like, oh, this guy always does this after the murder, Like that's how you can sort of link a bunch of different crimes together. So she searched homicides in known areas of sex work where a credit card had been stolen and anything had been stolen, like like anything had been charged

So that's a little bit of a red flag.

But Wong is also not comfortable labeling her a serial killer just yet. Munch does a whole monologue about how female serial killers don't have a profile because like historically they just people think, like female serial killers don't exist, and historians believe that many unsolved murders were committed by women because people just assumed that women couldn't kill or be violent like that. And I'm like, I guess historians have never seen the oxygen network.

Well, no, and women are better at committing crimes. That's what it's like. I guess women didn't do it, And it's like, no, they're just poisoning you with little flowers really every morning and your oatmeal.

You know.

Yes, they are meticulous. Yeah, anti freeze having a new uh, a distinct taste now really fucked up a lot of secret murtering. Really a real fork in the plan.

Yeah, back when it tastes like gatorade, we had a lot of options.

No, chicks are just good at murder hopefully. I mean they get angry like Chicago. You know, Bubba, what is it? Snaps? Yeah, that's a row.

Yeah. So Wong argues that she was raped and so she might have rape trauma syndrome, that maybe this guy does something that provokes a feeling from a past assault and that's what leads her to kill who knows. So Elliott and Olivia get called to another crime scene. A guy is bloody in his car with his pants undone. He's got six stab wounds. His name is Vincent Bertram, and they're checking to see if any of his credit

Sorry, why was that so hard for you? I don't know.

I don't know why that was so hard because I was trying to say he didn't We're trying to be appropriate. Why, Yeah, I was.

His balls were filled with giz and he didn't come yet.

Yeah, he didn't come yet, and so he basically died of blue balls.

You guys, So it's real.

Everything that guys tell you in high school about how painful it is, that's what happened to this guy. No, And somebody goes, oh, is that significant, and he goes ice T.

He goes, no, that's just cold classic.

But they do see a charge on one of his credit cards for a hotel. They bust into the hotel. This seems like very sloppy. We're talking about how women do good work. It seems very sloppy to kill a guy and check right into a hotel with his credit card. But okay, they bust into the hotel. Maggie's there with her little son, Joey, who's very upset.

He's like, mommy, mommy, mommy.

So in the next scene, they're at the precinct and little Joey is sitting on Munch's lap, and I that was very touching for me, Like, I think we've all seen all of them all be with like tiny babies before, but like Munch bouncing a two and a half year old, like probably whispering theories about the Kennedy assassination into his ear was cute to me. And Wong is like, give me a chance to talk to Maggie. Let me examine her.

She is voting for Stabler. She is so flirty.

Immediately like starts unbuttoning her cardigan. She's wearing one of these cardigan sets that were very hot. I had many of them, were very big in the early two thousands. I would say hot, because I don't think a cardigan set's ever considered super hot. But she's unbuttoning it and she's got like a little sort of tank underneath.

It that matches it. And she sits up on the.

Table like in front of Stabler, basically telling him he has a hot body. But she knows it's only to impress other people, so she basically is like straddling Stabler. This is very basic instinct. She's talking in a sultry voice. It's very she's trying really hard. And then there's a knock and Stable just gets up and walks out like he's very immune to her sexy ways. And then Wang

Yeah, if you study a cocktail personality, please let us know.

Yeah, because when you look it up, it literally is like what cocktail is your personality?

And it's like gin and tonic.

I mean, so basically he says that a cocktail personality is someone who uh senses other people's vulnerabilities, reads their personalities and then performs accordingly. So it's a classic sign of a sociopath. So when she was speaking to Huang, she was appealing to his vulnerable side, and you know that he's this sensitive, sort of more of a care

And she's talking.

She's explaining this to Wong and talking about whether she's going to go for the death penalty, which would be the first time New York State has executed a woman, and Cabot feels, based off the evidence that it's a death penalty case. Wong doesn't believe in capital punishment. I don't believe in capital punishment either, so I'm with Wang here on this. Wong doesn't believe that she's legally insane.

If you get your wish, you're going to be the enemy.

Of feminism, and Cabot's like, I think this is a win for feminism. Maggie deserves a needle in the arm, just like any other cold blooded killer, a man, or you know, anyone else. And then we hear the soft voice saying, so she should just take it like a man. Oh shit, Diane Waste is here, da Nora Lewin.

Hopefully that didn't hurt everyone's ears. But I am a huge Diane Waste fan.

Yeah, she's so good in this one little scene, she's so like quiet and amazing, Like she's really really good. She has been on I associate her so much with law and Order, but I think that's just because I used to watch a lot of more original recipe back in the Day. But she was on forty six episodes of Original Law and Order and she's only been on two of SVU, So this one and one other one.

For me, she is practical Magic in the bird Cage. That's what I think about when I think of her. Well, you've never seen those movies either, No, no, no no.

I first of all, the Bird Cage. I was trying to think who she is. She's married to Gene Hackman, right, yeah, she's the mother. And then I just watched Practical Magic over Pandemic at our friend Rene's house, and I think I would have been better if I had watched Practical Magic as a team. Maybe, I mean, yeah, to watch it now as an adult, it did not hold up for me watching it now as an adult, it was fun.

It was a fun little romp. Well, because I sometimes I feel like my hairdoos look like Stockard Channing in that movie. I'm always like, oh, I'm having a Stockard witch Day. And I also like when I'm in a town like that, I'm like, oh, this is a practical magic yeah town like I like Burlington, Vermont to me is like, okay, practical magic vibes basically New England. Yeah, yeah, but little you know, yeah, little New England. Well, you should come to my town where I grew up.

You'll get some you'll get practical magic yacht club vibes from my town.

Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no no no, do not try to put Connecticut into my practical magic fanis.

I'm telling you there are practical magic towns in Connecticut, but maybe not mine.

I can't believe it didn't hold up for you. You didn't like the dance with the margarita and the frogs spitting out the thing and the pancakes.

It was just wild to see these two actresses that are just so acclaimed now in this like very very like hokey movie about magic.

It's not hokey, and it's not about magic. It's about sisterhood and fulfilling your full potential and not being scared to be magical and don't fuck you know, murderers. Yeah, yeah, but about it's about connection and family and being who you truly are. Okay, so people trying to shut down women.

The themes did not strike to my heart the way that they did for you. Maybe we should rewatch it together.

You know what our friend's wedding I mentioned practical magic in my speech. I forgot that. I'm sorry.

I remember you crushing, but I was also extremely incapacitated at that point. Already I was pretty fucked up by dinner. But anyway, I had to do the marriage ceremony. So by the time I got done, I was like, give me every drink that exists on this property.

Oh yeah, we both had really heavy lifting jobs. Yeah.

So by the time your speech was happening, I remember laughing so hard, but I could not tell you quotes.

I could not. No, I wouldn't need a quote.

I'm not that, I'm not insane.

Okay, we move on. What is dian anyway?

Anyway, Diane Weese has this like very very like powerful conversation with them right about the death and this is like three women talking about the death penalty. And it's very interesting to me because Nora, that's Diane Wee's name, her characters like, I don't like this. You think the first female we execute should be a single mom sex

Next term. Boom, boom baby shacka laka for sure, boom goes the dynamite.

Yeah, but.

Maybe it is different. I like, it's it's weird that equality is. I don't know, I don't want. I actually don't have the brain capacity to talk about the.

Thing is that almost there's almost never a serial killer or a killer, a person responsible for multiple deaths who's going to be executed, who has not had a fully traumatic childhood and upbringing. I don't think that that's very common, and I think we need to consider that with every person that is being put to death.

But that's why I don't believe in the death penalty.

Like we just executed someone under Trump, this woman who had like truly one of the most horrific upbringings and lives and she actually her story is based on an SVU is based on her story. She did cut a baby out of a woman. Murdered a woman and cut the baby out. That is a horrific crime. This woman was like beyond mentally unstable, like there was her life was a string of traumas. I just don't think killing people like that is what we're supposed to be doing.

But my opinion, well that's just our whole society. It's like dealing with the symptoms and not with the issue. Yeah, because they all make money off capital punishments. I'm sure, like there's a reason the forty five administration was rushing to murder tons of people the end. It's not just because of justice.

Yeah, but doesn't it It costs a lot of money to keep people on death row.

And now what if you invest in the injection, Like I don't know, I don't have any of these. It was just weird how many people they just wanted to kill at the end.

Yeah, yeah, and it's it's also been proven that it's not a deterrent to crime. So anyway, no, because if you're so fucked up, why, like you don't have anything to live for. I mean that's the whole thing, where, yeah, when you don't have anything to live for, the death penalty means nothing exactly. So in court, the defense attorney for Maggie is cross examining an er doctor that has treated Maggie, and she's just like reading out all of

She thinks he would have raped or killed her.

And so then they have Maggie on the stand and she testifies that all the men that she has killed would have killed her, so like she was always acting in self defense. And Cabot's like, why would you put yourself in harm's way when you say you do everything you do is for your son, Like why would you have done this? And she's like, I assume the risk

Where did this kid come from?

Twist baby Eighteen months ago, a twenty six year old woman went grocery shopping. Her body was found strangled in the store parking lot. Her six month old son was never found. Yeah, she just gets what she wants. Yeah, no matter what, no one's gonna buy your story now, babe about how your son's the best thing you ever did and how you do everything for him.

Yeah, it's a user. Yeah, she's using him. It's like her alibi, like her story. Oh my god, totally.

So she's like where's Joey, where's Joey? And Olivia's like back with his father who thought he was dead.

You monster.

So like it's really we're getting a lot more beneath the surface of Maggie here. They offer her murder two on all counts concur sentences, so fifteen to twenty years. She'd be out probably in fifteen, especially someone manipulative like her, like she'd probably get good time, good behavior or whatever. Yeah, but Jale's filled with people like her. Yeah, that's it's tough.

And they're like, he goes, there's a problem. Anyway.

If you watch the episode, you notice that this man is a full robot. And Benson and Stabler go to check out what's going on with Maggie.

Why has she's not shown up at court?

And dunt on she has hung herself with her stockings in a very much sort of interesting not flashback, but like, you know, connection to the two other dead sex workers that we saw earlier who were like basically hung up after they were killed. She's hanging but in a really really weird way, like she didn't get on a table and hang from the ceiling. She's like hanging from the bars of the cell. So she just so the guy goes.

Her hair and makeup looks perfect.

She gets to go out like a beauty queen, like this is all a performance and like the final shot is just like a zoom in on ournechoks very beautiful and even in death, she's kind of like, no must like her faces, makeup is perfect and everything. And then nuts Dick Wolf Baby, thank you so much. The incredible episode.

Yeah, lots of twists and turns, and we'll be right back with a famous, famous crime. So welcome back, all right. So this is so famous Eileen Warros and Worros Warns Warnos, Eileen Warnos. Both names are hard to spell and say. It's like grew up in such a small place. It's like, can't she just be Stacey? But I have not seen the movie Monster or Boys Don't Cry. I don't know those like tough Tough Women oscar Roll movies. Really I can't watch them. It's too tough. It's too hard for me.

I've seen it, but not for a while. So I'm I'm looking forward to getting the recap.

On this, and I you know, I was doing a lot of research. So I saw Roger Ebert was like Charlie's this is the best performance of all time. But there's been documentaries. This was a really famous case. So I tried to do some research that maybe brought some new things to light. It's some information. And you know, our first episode we ever did. My friend called me out that I was totally on Leona Hemsley's side, and it's like everyone could tell, and I do feel like, listen,

I'm sure it was like an amazing like sense of control after being abused by men for decades to be able to just you know, have the upper hand.

Yeah, it's probably like the what Bad Wong mentioned in the episode about like the you know, you've been raped so much that any sort of thing can trigger a trauma response. But yeah, all right, So and at the end of the day, she was really frustrated and pissed how much violence came from her job, both from the

Why did it switch it to Tyria.

I think her name was just Tyra. So Tyra Moore, who was her lover, who was like Christina Ricci in the movie, spoke to her by phone in front of police and elicited a confession to the murders. So even yes sold her out and sold her out on the stand, like testify to fucking against her. So her one love in her life fucking sold her out. She was tricked into confessing by her lover without a lawyer present. And

He was fighting, that's that strange. Yeah, because he hated sex workers. I think that fucking tracks perfectly with these kind of people. These are the same people that don't think women should have abortions because they want to fight for a baby that's not been born, but they don't want to help women with their health care in any other way.

Yeah, So it's like, what's the difference between Ted and Eileen, And it's he hated sex workers, So it's this Christian thing, but like fifty times he visited Ted Bundy, who had so many more victims, and he was like the number one person who wanted Eileen fucking executed. Tons of right wing Christians were fighting to have her executed. Beyond me, Yeah, beyond me. I mean that's like Hugh Religion. Right wing

WHOA, that's those statistics are fucked.

Yeah, we hate women. Women can't do anything. It's like, and that's the Diane we sa of it all. In all of this, it's like, what are we fighting for with feminism when it's like we want more killers, but it's like no, But even when there are these crimes, it's like it's I it's not even fair. Yeah, so life in prison was just never offered to her and everyone like I mentioned, involved in the case was trying to sell the story and make money of her life.

Yeah?

Why does it? I don't understand if you're a feminist in any capacity. It's like man hater, man hater. Why don't we ever get to call like why is that not in the zeitgeist? So like women hater? Why is Ted Bundy not a woman hater?

Yeah, that's just ye know, it's I never thought about that, But that's a great question.

Because I had a try, I had an ish. I ran into an issue at a comedy club that I frequent where she was like you, the booker said, my man hating material needed to stop. And my man hating material was that men should make women come more so evil. And you know, looking around, it's like there was a dude who was doing jokes about how countries that beat women have better tasting food. I'm not saying if the

Right right, Like it's just not that's just not part of the lexicon to be a mamin hater.

Man hating is a thing that men have created. Yeah, and we talk about this a lot with the Violence Against Women Act, where it's like, why isn't men committing violence? It's like always violence, it's always passive. It's like who's committing all these crimes against women? But from now it's like we all have to make it our mission that anytime there's an Abel Castro or any of these fucking lunatics that attack what, they're women haters. Yeah, we just

Well, it's kind of like we talked about this in the Nicks Mary Brown case where her husband was the one who murdered this little girl, but she got a longer sentence because there's a thing about what you're a mother, you're a woman.

Like why didn't you protect your child?

Or like women are supposed to be good people or something, And I mean, he just reminds me. I know, she wasn't a mom, Eileen Morenos, But like, you know, there's just for some reason women get punished because it's like you're supposed to be good, so you doing.

This bad thing. Men are expected to do shitty stuff. Yeah, and it's not just in the criminal world. I mean I think for parenting and stuff too. As a mom, you could truly do everything and it's never enough. And a guy, if you just hold the baby at a party, people are like, oh my god, the shother of the year.

So her legal team wouldn't call any of these people even though.

No, So this woman put together this pro bono like set of experts that were never called to trial at all. And also Eileen refused an insanity defense. I don't know if that would have helped her or not. And like I said earlier, just to reiterate how alone this woman was. Her lesbian lover testified against her. Yeah, Eileen kind of broke down and cried in court as they played the tapes of her getting a confession out on tape. So they were like playing Tyra's shit, and like you can see,

I mean, no one is suggesting that she'd be like let out to live her life freely, but she could have been, you know, she could have maybe you know, had some kind of rehabilitation in jail and been able to.

Just been in jail fine, because she also she hated being in isolation. I mean, it's like if she could be in mass pop first, like death Row, it's like more intense. She could have found like a lover and a friend in jail and been living I don't know, yeah, but well it's upsetting.

We do, as usual, have a great palate cleanser of a guest for you, so don't go anywhere.

All right.

Today's guest is an icon Honestly, she has been nominated for four Primetime Emmys. She's been on Broadway as Sally Bowles and Velmakelly iconic roles on TV, You've seen her on Grey's Anatomy, Shameless, Desperate Housewives, I'm Becoming a God in Central Florida, and most famously, she played Sylvia Costas Sipowitz on NYPD Blue. But today you know her as the cocktail personality baby Maggie Peterson. Guys, get into our talk with Sharon Lawrence.

So this is an iconic episode, one of our favorites. When you got the script, you read about it and the character, were you very jazzed excited? How did you sure?

At that point I was playing mostly good women, so it was fun that sense changed. I find more bad women than good women now, and I don't know whether that's because of SVU and the success of that character, or just the way things happen as you evolve in the canon of women in television, but at that point it was it was a nice stretch for me. And when I read the script, it was a mystery to me how anyone could actually that kind of character, could be based on something that's real.

But at the time.

I was let's see, when was this filmed?

Two thousand and two?

I think, yeah, yeah, right, okay, So I was already married to my husband, who's a psychiatry trust and he let me know that this chameleon, the cocktail personality, I should say, the episode is called chameleon, but as some bad Walk's character talks about, it's a cocktail personality. They change in accordance to what they recognize will give them an advantage with whoever it is or talking to so you know, to me that that just sounds like somebody.

In Hollywood, But.

It's so true.

It's a real psychiatric phenomenon. It's not a diagnosis, but it is a phenomenon.

That's so, that's so interesting. Your husband must have helped you a little bit. Did he help you a little bit, like get like telling you about that whole.

Well, he just he just made it legit for me. And that's that's what I needed, the medium and all I needed was for him to say that's real and I could buy in and do the work to make it happen in a real way for me first and hopefully for the audience on stage and for the lens on a camera.

Yeah.

Wow, you have like your own in house doctor Wong. That's so exciting.

Yes, indeed, I do.

Can we ask you we were obviously researching you before we got on this call with you. And there's an uncited piece of information on your Wikipedia that says that you got married to your husband in the same church that your NYPD Blue character got married to Dennis Franz.

Is that true? Because it says citation needed.

Well, let me get on there and cite that right now, because Ding ding Ding. It's true.

Yes.

Wow.

When I met my husband, he's Greek. The church that I belonged to beck in my home day in North Carolina was no longer my church. When he said, would you be opposed to getting married in the Greek church? I said, well, honey, I've already done that and I just like it what I met by, and of course it was. It was an easy yes for me because I knew how beautiful this place was. So what my concern was with would it feel like I had done

Wow.

Okay, well we're going to get on Wikipedia and clear that right now because it is all true.

That's amazing. I do have some more NYPD Blue. Do you keep in touch with Garcel? We're big Real Housewives people. Have you been watching Real Housewives? Any information that you can give me us? I don't.

I don't watch a lot of reality TV. Not really my thing on I Garcel and I have seen each other at events, and I love her. She's a great gal. She's so charming, and you know, she she was a you know, a bright light on the show. We didn't ever really cross pads, but I certainly watched her on it, and she's got a great vibe, just a great energy.

Yeah, no, she does on the show. We love her.

We really have to bring up that you played Velma Kelly in Broadway, which is like one of our favorite of all time musicals, and that's wow, like and I want to know what that was like. But I also want to know if you challenge any of that femme fatale energy, channels any of that fem fatal energy into.

Your chamelion stroll you.

Rather than tell you, I'll show you wow.

Oh wow baby. Oh yes, that looks amazing. Yeah, smoke show. That's a bad girl.

So I wore the black wig, as you can tell.

I had to.

Okay, I couldn't play Velma without it.

Yeah, you have more of roxy hair in real life.

Yeah right, I couldn't. I couldn't smoke, uh in real life, you know, but I could smoke on this and I had a great time. Yeah, you know, It's it's always an honor to step into a classic show. You know, it's it's great to create a show, but to step into a show that's already so iconic, uh means they trust you.

Just to uh get back a little bit to the SVU episode, we obviously need to talk about the scene where you are basically straddling Christopher Maloney.

I mean, like, how how was that?

Our listeners are going to need to hear the details?

You know you said, Uh, that came so easily to me because I'm a dancer, and I yeah, I have no compunction about listen in in Chicago, we were straddling the audience basically especially the front row because in the in the song he had at common.

Uh, we are.

The sub black tango is the proper name for the dance, and so we we are all using our power zones right sometimes and power zones come in many, many versions of the female body and the female presence. And one of those power zones is to not be afraid of your growing area, of that area that is that scares

Right. Wow. The other you know, the ending of the episode with you hanging in your jail cell pretty wild. That was you. That wasn't like a yeah, a dummy situation.

Yeah yeah. And it was me that had the fight with Marriscow, which was really fun because again we know, we were acting class together, Larry Moss's class, and it was really fun to get that physical with her and for us to to because you know, we've hung out, and to have that that playful moment, because it does feel like play and it's rare that women get to do that, women of our age get to do that, you know. And then the scene in the jail cell,

My neck right right.

The hair and makeup was beautiful. I think I'd already done the courtroom scene, which those courtroom scenes are their own challenge, just the length of ours, the fact that you are not able to move as much, your energy doesn't get to move as much because you're in the in that witness stand. But by the time we shut that, you know, I had pretty much my work was done.

I know you were in a DA and NYPD Blue, were you like sizing up? Stephanie March was there like eighty eight competitive games.

She was so good, she's so good and and and they get to do so much more a DA work than I ever did on NiPd. But it was very rare that they really cases really went that far because it was about the cops and Sylvia became about the romance much more than about the system, the judicial system. What I also loved seeing was Judith Light because Judith and I did a musical together, we did company together.

Well, we went on your Instagram and you are shooting Christmas House too, and two of your co stars are s vu a lum and I don't know if you knew that or not, but we got excited. Treat Williams and Jonathan Bennett were both in SVU episodes, so that was like a jam packed photo we saw. Did you guys ever chat about your SVUS?

No, but I'm going to get on our family text right now. I knew it. Doesn't surprise me. Treat did because Treat's a New York based guy, so of course he did. He might have done it more than once, but I didn't know Jonathan. Good for him.

Yeah, he was a high younger. He had some relations with a stepmother. It was a wild episode. Ooh ooh, okay, oh.

What a nice lady. People are cool.

She's also I wish you guys could I wish we could tape our interviews sometimes with visuals because she's so gorgeous. She looks like the same as she did on NYPD Blue, like twenty years ago.

It's wild.

Yeah, you can catch her beautiful mug in the drama series Joe Pickett coming to Spectrum this winter, and she's going to be in the Christmas House too. Deck those Halls on Hallmark on December eighteenth. If you need a little Christmas movie in your Life and she's on that with Treat Williams, another SVU alum, Jonathan Bennett, and another SVU alum.

It's like jam packed. And I love talking to people where you can tell they love their job, they're grateful for their lives and they're just like on the fucking ride and enjoying it. Yeah, and some love.

You know.

She just really she has it all for me.

And we were able to confirm a citation needed from Wikipedia.

I mean, that's a dream.

We got to get in there and like put our like link to our episode as the confirmation that she got married in the same church as her character.

So fun. No, we're very cool. Anytime I like start thinking about our lives and who we've talked to him, Like damn, just talented people everywhere. Such a blessing.

But in today's post mortem, we probably learned.

That the world is sex again. The page knucks. We have to We're gonna eventually have to change what this little segment is called, because what we learn every week is the world is endless horrors. Everyone hates women and there's nothing good in the world. And that's what we learn. You're just you know, kidnapping babies, hanging yourself at the prison and that's life.

Wekay, Yeah, But I mean I do think the story of Eileen Morenos is like really is really tough. And I mean, I know everybody, like you know, everybody knows about it from Monster, the Charlie's movie and stuff and the Oscar buzz, But if you really think about it, it's like this was a person who had a really really traumatic upbringing and yes she committed some crimes, but it seems like a lot of her crimes were in

We could protect sex workers more absolutely. And I think this kind of touches back on what we're talking about with the train attack in Pennsylvania recently, where it's like you knew this child was prostituting herself for cigarettes, you know, and food, and that her grandfother slashed dat whatever, was beating the shit out of her, like the community knew

We need to take a We need a referendum capital punishment in this country because it's just really not it's not the answer. It doesn't deter it doesn't do the things we think it's going to do. And I think that it's, uh, it's not the right way.

Yeah, it reminds me of Yosemite Sam's style government. You know, it's like, why are we taking clues from like a little cartoon guy, And that's what I feel. It's just a bunch of Yosemite Sam's running around me like let's shoot them all up? And it's just the women hating man hate. It's just yeah, I don't know. And why are expert witnesses not being called? You know, our judges just like having so much bias. What's up with the juris?

But I think it's I think a good postpartum takeaway is like, look out for people that have that, Like, look out for people that are telling you what you want to hear, and like then they tell the next person what they want to hear. Like just like, beware of those people because they're charming as fuck, but they are narcissists and.

They'll fuck you in the end or kill you. And in comedy, well, so we have a friend who works in higher education and she did confirm that professors are more insane than comedians, so that's been nice. And then someone that works with comedians told me, she goes, that's horrifying that there's a group of people worse than comedians. And I hope that's not the takeaway I got from this, but I do think in our line of work we

Like my like, we have a friend who's got a step child with her partner, and like the biological mom is like just a powder keg constantly about to go off. Like whenever something bad happens in her life, they know that they're going to start to get something from her, do you know what I mean?

Like she's going to start to give them static.

Because like it's something that happened to her, and so now she's like got to take it out on everyone around her.

What's this powder? What's powder? Powder? Would you say? Powder? Like a powder keg?

Never, I don't know, like a powder keg, like like I think, like an explosive base. A powder keg is like an explosive Yeah, oh I love it. I love getting a little word teaching to you, like a little phrase, turn a phrase, Hannah, Are you here to tell me that I'm wrong?

Absolutely not, I'm here to have Lisa do a pickup.

It's four percent of ordinary people one in twenty five, not one and four, which I feel like is an important thing to do a pickup of.

I'm like, I think I just like make up or something like that.

It's like not one and four, And I was like, I'm going to make sure that's correct.

But four one in twenty five, but one in twenty five. We all know twenty five people. We all know multiples of twenty five PEPs.

So you all know a few sociopaths in your life for sure.

Yeah, nar like we're all I mean, yeah, the older you get, I mean, I can't wait to get more and more wise and understand more of the world. Like what I see now verse ten years ago is just such a difference about just like how to react. I don't know how to see things, like I can't wait to see what I learn in ten years. Yeah about all that. And you'll be dating Joe KOI, yeah, I'll be dating Joy No I who knows? Who knows? But that's funny. No, I want them to beat together.

I know, I know you'll you'll be dating your Jokoy, your Jokoy, like whoever your JOKOI is.

Yeah, I wonder. I think I did one episode of Chelsea with him, for sure. I did. Well.

We probably don't have a picture of probably you and him and Margaret that you don't even remember. Oh no, it was you and Margaret and Ross Matthews.

I can't believe you don't remember.

But now you're so obsessed with drag Race you don't even remember that you've fully met him.

Anyway. No, but someone on my Twitter was like, oh, are you going to be Ross Matthews for Halloween, and I'm like, is this shade or what? What are you doing? I don't know what that means. I don't know. Wait what is this?

Yeah?

Always wait, we're looking at Oh, it's me.

I'm looking at a photo of a guy named Jeff Wilde, Liza Jokoy and Chewie Bravo, who was uh who has since passed, but I'm so jealous that Lisa got to meet him. I'm with you and that guy Jeff is who I wrote on white Out with Oh no way, Jeffy pot Jiffy call him Jiffy goes by jeff Now again, I think he only went by Jiffy because Chelsea called him that.

And it was twenty fourteen everybody and twenty four boys Facebook. How did you find that so quick?

I mean, that's why she's making the big books. And then all the comments are like, I love you, and then one of the comments is she's such a dick to you, Joe, Lol, guess what you're fucking now?

Well, in the interview, she or they were like on INSTALLA, I don't know, I saw them talk. I'm like obsessed and on every content about Chelsea and Joe Koy, but she was just like, You've always had a crush on me and he's like, no, I did n't, and she's like, hiss, you did, but we had a Riffin wrap. I don't know, it's just it's cute.

Yeah, let's segue into this week's what would Sister Peg Do. I just wanted to highlight I found this Instagram account a while ago and I still fall of them.

It's Her Whole Truth is what it's called.

It's Instagram dot com forward slash Her Whole Truth w h O l E Truth, and it highlights stories and challenges of women on death Row and it's basically aiming to end the cycle of trauma and find out women's truths. So I just they were doing a lot to try to get a stay of execution for this woman that I've mentioned before who committed a horrible crime but also

Thank you for that. Yeah, this podcast is not for capital punishment. If you were wondering, So next week's episode, we're doing one of the best, one of the faves, one of the classics. I can't believe we finally get to talk about it. Taboo Seasons, episode fourteen fourteen divided by two is seven. It is magical, So enjoy that on peacock, Hulu or wherever you're catching up on SVU episodes, And as always, we're so happy that you listen and

And feel free to dm us with your episode suggestions, and some people are sending us merch suggestions. We love talking to you guys, so yeah, send us messages and we'll see you next week.

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