Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies these episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done done, Hello, that's messed up. I'm Lisa Traeger.
And I am Kara Klink And this is the podcast where we take you through an episode of Law and Order SVU, discuss the true crime that it's based on, and then give you a hard hitting interview with one of the actors from the show. But first we chit chat. But first we talk. It's almost twenty twenty one.
We are almost dragging ourselves on our forearms out of this horrible year.
I mean, this has been a good year for me in some ways. And that we started this podcast, that's been a really fun a plus to twenty twenty.
Yeah. Without this podcast, I don't know what else I would have. Yeah, really, I no. I mean, I feel like my hair is getting long and that's pretty exciting. So, oh my god, I'm really grasping it. Positives for twenty twenty. I'm getting very good at bat gammon. That's been a number one activity. I got it.
They should make a Queen's gambit. That's like Lisa with backgammon. I would loving international tournaments.
Well, did I tell you my father wanted me to be a chess girl when I was growing up, and we would go to the library and rent chess books and he would force me to play. Of course. I mean, isn't that just like Russia.
That's like how I don't know, It's like how people in the US want their kids to like read before other people.
I think in Russia it's like you need to be good at chess. Yeah, my sister and I were just reminiscing in her backyard with the fire and how my dad would he he worked at the pool, so he would force me to sit at the pool, but I couldn't go in the water, and I had to read and write out of an encyclopedia until he thought it was and then I would I would be able to go swim. I mean, I feel like I turned out
pretty fucking good for everything that's happened to me. Considering my big story this year, as my dad was going into heart surgery and I did say I love you and he did not say it back. And my friend was like, you need to tell people that when you meet them, so then they understand you as a human a little bit better. I've never heard I love you from your father. Oh my my.
I did not grow up in a big I love you household either. We really started saying it later in life, where I was like, why don't we say it? My mom was like, I don't know. I always grew up thinking that people say it too much. And I was like, okay, that because she's Hungarian, right, No, that's my dad side.
Because my mom says that too about my sister's family. She goes, Ugh, they just say it all the time, like it disgusts her.
That because it starts to lose meaning if you say it like all the time, like bye, love you, bye, I love you, love you, love you like all the time, it starts to lose me. I'm like, I don't know. I say it to my kid. I scream it in her face constantly. I'm like, you know, I love you so much. She's so lovable. I hope she has a great twenty twenty one.
I hope so too. She's just gonna have her second pandemic birthday pretty soon. It's gonna be great. But New Year's for US is like Christmas in the Russian for the Russians, we give presents, we get a new Year's tree, we celebrate the old year. We eat meat jello, we celebrate the last year.
Yeah, I think you need to stop and back it up and let's talk about meat jello.
My every New Year, our fridge is just filled with like bowls of clear It's exactly like I wish it was a sitting you know. It's it's just ground beef in jello. It's like chunks of chicken with pepper in a sea through jelly, hard form in a bowl.
Okay, so not sweet jello, No, no, no, no, a savory jello. It's a savory you know, it's a savory jello. You're okay, it's a savory jello.
Got it? Did you ever eat the jellos that were pink and red at the store, in those the combo flavors. Yeah them.
So my parents wouldn't really buy as cello, but I feel like I found a way to get those somehow.
We would make it from the powders. Yeah.
Yeah, See, my mom's not a big maker like we did big cupcakes.
We didn't do that kind of stuff. Well, you know, so I grew up. Were your parents good cooks?
Mmmm?
My dad is terrible. My mom is like fine. Well, because our friend Lauren, I didn't know this, but her family is notoriously bad at cooking, to the point where the grand they would leave their grandma's house and be sick, puke and have to go to the hospital. Oh my god, did you know this? I did not. That is some Irish insanity. She said she made burneise sauce, but it was just microwaved mayonnaise, and then she served it and the children got sick and like, my god, Oh my god.
I literally had to just put my hand over my mouth for a second. Yeah, no, it's bad. It's uh my because even though meet Jelly Aside and meet Jello Aside, I own you Min's cooking. I really love it.
Tell me more about this Russian New Year. I feel like I learned so much about Russia from you.
Will we do presents, and our family alone liked to do a theme, and so we would wear we all wore ties one year. Well, that's definitely stayed with you. Lisa loves a theme. I do I do. One year, we all dressed like movie stars and I did a Gwyneth Paltrow at the Oscars look. I dressed like Madonna one year. Maybe we did musicians. Yeah, and then yeah, everyone gets hammered, except for me because I was a kid.
But it was weird growing up because for everyone New Year's is like, you know, we're doing clubbing and you're like, I'll be with my family dressed as Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah. What do you normally do you raise New Years? I usually just rage. I mean I have literally I threw when I was in high school, I threw parties when my parents were out of town. When I was in college, I would meet up with my college friends and just get blacked. They left you alone over New Year's all those kids.
No, they took my brothers them to Ireland and left me home with my brother and my sister. But they were staying at different places, and so I was staying with my mom's best friend.
But I was a sophomore.
My friends could drive, so they just picked me up and brought me back to my house.
We don't even have locks on my house. Please don't google where my parents live. There's nothing worth stealing.
But like, my house is never locked, so It's like I just let myself in and just had a party.
I would like to share with everyone my favorite Papa Clank story, which is he refuses to pay for a garbage disposal, so he takes his garbage to the dump. Yeah yeah, yeah, how much is he saving money? You know what, his car? You can tell it from his car and you can smell. It's probably saving twelve dollars.
I have no idea, but it's just one facet of his insanity.
Yeah, what do we do? We were talking like do we even talk about resolutions? Hopefully, no one has a resolution except to survive.
I mean, like I've said before, I feel like we can only go up from here. And I'm I'm really entering twenty twenty one with positivity and hope.
I hope soul cycle opens up soon.
On that name of positivity, I do have to let you know that today's episode is called Burned, is a pretty graphic episode. I know we say this a lot because you know, most of what we talk about relating to SVU is traumatic and upsetting, but this episode, you know, just wanted to give everyone a heads up. This is a season eight, episode eleven. Why don't we just get going. Let's talk about Burned. Let's get into Burned. This is a horrific episode based on a horrific crime.
This episode has haunted me since it's come out, Like I think about it regularly.
Yeah, I remember it being one of those and it's one of those episodes too, where it kind of ends and you're like, you don't really know what happened like that, Well you do, but let me, let me get into it. So this is essentially a very like a custody battle episode, he said, She said episode. Blair Underwood plays Miles, the very hot Blair Underwood that we all know from Text and the City doctor Robert Lee.
Doctor Well because I obviously loved him in that show and he's so hot. But he said I love you in a cookie cake and everyone's like that's sweet, and I'm like, that's bad because I had an X onece right down I love you, and we never said it to each other, which puts the pressure on me and you don't get to do anything. Yeah, you just write it and then I have to respond fuck you. So I purposely didn't say it because I was like, I pretend to say somebody texting you, I love you, for
the first time instead of saying it. So it's like I didn't like whatever, Let's get Back.
The City podcast, which is a bit available on our Patreon. No okay, So Blair Underwood plays Miles. His ex wife is a woman named Valerie, who is played by the beautiful Michael Michelle. Like just a stunningly gorgeous woman. Uh, and they have a daughter named Tessa. So at the beginning of the show opens with Tessa is whether her dad on a court appointed or a court supervised visit?
Excuse me? And you can tell they have a close relationship, but like yeah, he's like, are you working out so you can get boyfriends? And it's like that's not a thing to say. Yeah.
So there at this visit, the court appointed supervisor cuts the visit short, and as she's leaving, the daughter says to the dad, like, what's a Dallas headhunter? So it's very clear that which is like girls, shut up. Yeah, she's basically relaying information because these parents do not talk. This is like a very contentious divorce.
I was also wondering why did the court appointed woman make the visit shorter, Like this is very missus doubt fire, But it's not a mom doing it, like, oh, I have to go here, there's a dinner. Why is this woman doing that? Well, they get into that later.
What that They say, it's an abuse of her power, Like she's really she's taking it upon herself to say, Tessa's struggling in school, so I'm going to just take her out of her visit early, which is not cool. And yeah, so the Dallas headhunter thing is like kind of the last thing we hear. It's a little bit of a tip off. And then back at the Valerie's apartment.
Way to get this going, it's just so funny. Yeah, who talks about Dallas. I don't know, I just I want to. I want to be in the writer's room when they're like what do we say?
Yeah, like something has to tip him off that they might be leaving town. Yeah, So we get to Valerie's apartment where she's showering and she is pulled out of the showers psycho style, like very scary. And then the next thing we see is Benson and Sabler interviewing her about her rape. She says that it was her soon to be ex husband, Miles, So they're in the process of a divorce I suppose I didn't. I thought that
they were already divorce, but they're in the process. So she has a protection order against Miles and that's why the visits are supervised, and so they're trying to figure out how even how he even got into the apartment because he's not supposed to know where they live and he's and there was no forced entry, so he obviously had a key somehow.
So and she also said he's addicted to drugs and alcomy.
Yeah, so he's had previous issues with drugs and alcohol. Apparently he's supposed to be sober now. And she tells him about how she had an order of protection against him and it was said to expire, but an extension was not granted. So then we go they go and they talk to this judge who's the one that did not grant the extension on the order of protection. He immediately uses the word feminazis, so I immediately hate him, like, what a stupid.
Boomer word to use to talk about feminists. And this is the judge that looks like the old schlubby man that would be at Shull, you know, it's Hassover, and he is just just like gross his shirt's disheveled. He's, you know, eating some apples and honey in the corner, right, that's his vibe. And he is like, she's watched too many women in Jeopardy movies and it's like, oh, do you mean life, Like women are constantly in Jeopardy, Like I don't understand you working in the courts and see this.
Yeah, And then he introduces the idea of silver bullet strategy, which is something I've never heard of, which is apparently like in divorces, to say that you've been sexually assaulted in your divorce proceedings by your husband. And Stabler actually says that his wife's lawyer, who he is in the middle of a divorce right now in this episode.
Wow's that's the meat.
They're weaving in and out of the story with Stabler and his wife having their divorce looming, and Sabler says his wife's lawyer suggested it as a strategy and that she turned it down.
And I was like, I find it hard to believe that lawyers are telling women to just like, oh, just say you were raped and you'll get custody of your kids or whatever.
That seems insane. But the law is crazy. Who knows, So Benson is stabler. This is very This is a very contentious episode between the two of them.
Like, yeah, because since Maloney is going through the divorce.
Of course he has the man's Yeah, he's very much on the man's side. Benson's very much on the woman's side. And then Munch and Finn go to speak to this court appointed supervisor, who you know is a very She is very like Missus Doubtfire. She's like, very similar to the woman in Missus Doutfire. He's like, I think that's the classical list. Yeah, if you're going to tell a dad he can't hang out with his children, she's like severe looking white woman with a tight butN and she is.
She's like, yeah, he definitely harasses the mother. He stays within five he doesn't go within the five hundred feet, but he's around that. You see him like whatever, And he gets violent at visits. But then this is kind of how the show doesn't make anything black and white here, because Finn's like, you shouldn't be cutting those visits short. It's not your job to assess his behavior, and like that,
he's you know, if he's doing something violent to the daughter. Sure, but he's only getting violent at you because you're cutting the visit short and that's why he's getting mad.
So but I also saw because I saw that side, because even in the top of the episode, I was like, fuck, fuck this woman, like why are you ending the visits? But then on my notes, I wrote, like she is scared of him, Michael. Michelle is scared of him, and how is that not enough? And why aren't we taking women's fear seriously right? Like she's not why is her fear not enough? Right?
And they people look at it as like, no, it's a war for the child and she's just trying to win it at all costs.
That's like what the other side was. You know what I hate with this war thing. When the cops were like, well, let's get around how can we get around parental consent to interview the daughter?
Yeah, that's coming up, I was like, yeah, so that's exactly where we are. So they they can't talk to Tessa because Valerie won't allow it, so they just go to her school to speak to her, and like, which is insane. I think that's insane and like illegal, but like.
They do this all time. There's another episode where the daughter told the nurse, the school nurse and malloney and Ben's like, we don't give a fuck, you go anyway, Yeah, and like ruin the secrecy medical codes, and they just will break any rules, medical secret codes. They just will try to get a kid to talk and ignore all the parents. And a part of me is like, yeah, you're helping, but it's like, what you can't do this?
Yeah, but Tessa says, like, there's she did not give the dad the key, you know, and she they think she's hiding something, but she he hides the key in the backpack or not hid she just puts He says, she keeps her key in the backpack. So now we know that the key is accessible to him, and there's he easily could have made a copy of it at some point.
I don't really know how during a.
Visit, but he could have Benson as Sabler going to talk to Miles. He admits that he's a recovering alcoholic, a drug addict, said that there's no way he raped his ex wife. He wouldn't touch her with a like a ten foot pole. He agrees to take a polygraph, so he seems very convincing in his innocence, like admitting to a polygraph, Like he's like, you can do anything
you want, Like I didn't do this. And then when they get to the they do this all the time where people are at the precinct and they like run into each other. So we see this couple together for the first time in the episode, and they are flipping out on each other screaming. Valerie is there to recant her allegations, so he's technically free to go miles and they and then they have this like crazy fight, like he calls her a bitch and she's like you're the bitch, which I like.
What's crazy. So you know, when people fall in love and get married and decide to have kids and all of that, there's just so much love and happiness, like positivity there and it is so crazy to think of things going this sour. And so while you're talking, I'm like imagining you and your husband, Oh my god, one day, can you imgine being in a precinct screaming at each other for Rosie's custody? No, I can't.
But like then again, it's like you never know where things go, like Luckily and London, Yeah, you never know.
Yeah, And them. In the precinct, Benson says something that I find very important. She goes, I know when an abuse of man is escalating. Yeah, and we see that a full on abuse does not happen out of thin air. Right, This is patterns, and it gets bigger and worse and worse. So that Benson saying that meant a lot to.
Me, right, But what's very interesting is like, so in the next act, we're still seeing Benson and Stable are having a ton of tension about this case.
Yeah.
He's like, she recanted fuck yeah, yeah, yeah, And she's like, I know something's going on here. I know this woman was raped. Huang interviews Tessa and she gives the history of the alcohol and like, you know, him being passed out, him being high, but says that he's never laid a hand on Valerie or Tessa. So you know, you you want to believe this kid is telling the truth that She's like, he's never laid a finger on us. He'll punch walls, he'll do this and that, but he is never liked her.
Because I was about to say, like you hopefully as a kid, you don't, I mean, if they're hopefully hopefully there's no abuse, but maybe the parents do it secretly. But this reminds me of big little lies where the dad thought he was like beating the shit out of Nicoleon's secret and his little boys were videotaping it and watching it. So kids are smarter than we give him credit, course or not. And so it is like, is Tesla lying or did she really not see anything? Is she
living in a bubble you know right right? Or yeah? Was he abusing her? Yes, exactly on the side or whatever? And she loves her dad, so even if she did he did you know he did do something wrong? Like would she maybe lie to make sure her dad is in her life? Yeah, because sometimes I think kids of like divorce might blame the mom and be like, it's your fucking fault that I can't see my dad.
You know, the dad's terrible. Yeah, for sure, life is rough, Yes, indeed. So basically Valerie is sticking to her guns that he did rape her. They find out that Miles bugged the social worker's car and that's how he found out where they live. And then so Benson arrests Miles because I think the bug is like enough proof he Oh, they also found hairs. Sorry, they also found hairs of vipers, so there's like enough evidence that he was in the house,
so they bring Miles in. He fully admits to being in the house, like bugging the car, the whole thing. He said he went and yanked Valerie out of the tub and just shook.
Her and left.
He says it's because he heard the Dallas headhunter comment and was like, you're not allowed. You cannot move to Texas with my daughter. So that's what prompted him to go pull a naked woman out of the shower and shake her. I mean, this is also very not okay behavior, and I feel like you should have been charged for that. And he says Valerie treats Tessa like a hostage in there in their relationship, and Huang kind of backs him up and says that there is no pattern of abuse.
He believes Tessa he is this, you know, psychological.
Why do you think Michael Michelle recantd because she.
Was saying I just wanted to go away. I just want this to stop.
Now.
Benson and Stabler get into a very intense fight and then Benson says like he says stuff to her like I'm the longest relationship you've ever had and with a man, so you don't really know how marriages work. And then she's like, she says that Stabler has a dying marriage and a history of violence, so she kind of like throws it right back at him, which is true. True, he does and his marriage is in shamble an Benson could get it if she wanted.
Yeah, if she wanted to get married and have kids. She goes like one of the top most beautiful women on this planet and like tough and cool. I mean, I'm obsessed. Yeah.
So Benson meets up with Kathy Stabler's wife, and basically she wants him to She wants Olivia to convince Elliott to sign the paper so that they don't have to do a contested divorce, which is a lot more difficult. We basically get this little snippet where a neighbor of Valeries saw her with a man named Phil from her attorneys.
And fuck this neighbor, what are you telling your friend's business for? What the Yeah, it's weird.
She's like, yeah, we're friends, we just gossip did see her with a guy named Phil. Once It's like the classic neighbor testimony, Oh your friend.
The cops are asking me question, what do you that is anti girl coat? You do not tell the cops who your friend is fucking? That is insane. Right.
So, now we are at Miles's bail hearing and Casey Novak asks for like two hundred k bail or something, and Judge Petrovsky, iconic judge of the franchise, Judge Petrovski clearly like, does it like to see women beaters get off? She's like, no, let's make it five hundred k, which everybody is kind of shocked by, which I think is more how the episode is trying to get you to be like, is everything fair here?
Is? Like what? Like? I think they're really the whole time trying to get you to question who is in the wrong here because now he's got this massive bail which we can talk forever, but because bail is problematic against I thought it was because the order of protection was expiring two that she made it so high. Sure, but that was like another judge's called and like she didn't, you know, like even Novak says, that's excessive, your honor,
Like even she thinks it's too high. I mean, at the end of the day, two hundred grand and five hundred grand I they're both insane.
No, but well they're not though, because like your bail is only ten percent of that, So it's like whether you can raise twenty k or whether you can raise fifty k. I mean it's you know, twenty k. You can like sometimes put your house up. This like his parents had to put their retirement home up or something like that.
It was like a whole thing.
It just is more bail is like more punitive. So it's like she is passing a judgment on him already and he has not been convicted of anything, got it. So I think that's what the show is trying to get you to question, like who's in the wrong who's in the right here? Because that seems unfair to him a little bit. So then this is where the episode takes a.
Really really grew some turn. Oh you know what I wrote here? I go Michael Michelle and what's his name? Blairon would stare at each other. They're both hot and angry, like Lisa, Renna and Denise Richards. So any Housewives fanatic, if you're energy, yeah, if you're a crossover fan, like when Renna goes ooh, you're so angry.
Okay, So we find out that Valerie has been attacked in the street. We get to the hospital, she's in the burn unit. She's been set on fire. She's been doused in gasoline and set on fire, which is really terrible. This is very graphic, like this scene in the burn unit, like.
You're seeing just like burnt, bloody flesh. It's very awful. And her face is like she's lame.
They have her lying on her stomach, and like, what's crazy is that the detectives are allowed into the operating room, which I don't really think is a.
Thing, especially now with COVID, Like there's so many things we see where it's like even just people hugging or kissing on housewives, I'm like, oh, don't do that, or you know, high fiving a stranger, but this was insane. We're in a burn unit or without masks, just in their gear, not even they're wearing like.
Those tear away scrubs or whatever that are like very but still it was like you're just letting these cops into this woman who's like bleeding on an operating tape.
When the er people and the doctors are like, you can't leave her alone. She can't don't touch her. At point they try to touch her. They're like, don't touch her, but the doctors they keep going, is she gonna make it? And the doctors are like, doesn't look good. She's conscious, like she's alive, conscious, and you're just talking about how she's gonna die any second. And the thing is, they're all the crimes on SPHEW are bad, you know, but
something I got to burn you. I don't know what it is, but it is obviously an extra horrific crime and injury to heal from it. But they they're just my stomach sink. Yeah, it's really horrible.
And it's also something about like it's to me, it's something about destroying like how beautiful she is, Like Michael Michelle is like extremely beautiful his wife Valerie in this situation, and it's like, I'm just gonna make it so that you're not beautiful anymore.
Like even if he didn't mean to murder her, you know, Anna, I think it also shows like the rage and hatred and what Benson said, the escalation. Yeah, because he could have just walked up to hearrd shot her. He could have poisoned her.
I mean, there's a million ways he could have killed her, but like up to set someone on fire is like, we should look into the psychology of what that means, because I think it's like about destroying like the physical, like what.
She looks like.
Valerie says they have to talk to her in this burn unit because she has to make a dying declaration if she is going to pass away, and she says, Miles the one who set her on fire. So then and now Maloney's blaming himself and he should yes, And now Maloney is like, I should have listened to you, Olivia, and Olivia is kind of like, you know, how could we have possibly known it was going to escalate this far? You knew, yeah, but she was like, I didn't know it was going to go from like zero to one
hundred or whatever. I guess in this case, like fifty to one hundred.
And my page where I take notes, it won't remember Malone. So his name is Melon in all of my notes.
So Melon and Stabler are I mean, Melon and Benson are kind of you can tell things are kind of He's a little bit apologizing without saying I'm sorry. Okay. So we're in Central Park. Miles is like meeting up with Tessa. The cops are surrounding. Tessa's like, Daddy, don't do this, AND's he confesses to his daughter, I killed your mother today, like which is wild, and she's like, I won't love you anymore. But then she's like, daddy, don't go and she doesn't want the cops to kill him.
So then they get Tessa out of there. The cops carry Tessa off and.
Miles they're out to Alice in Wonderland statue I loved, okay at Central Park, So you need to know the location it's at, Like if you know a beautiful whimsical statue which something is on accident.
Yeah, they will have childlike It's like basically, this is a place where like Alice in Wonderland is like a symbol of childhood and like then this is a place where this girl is like officially losing her childhood because her dad murdered her mom. And then her dad Miles pulls out a knife, like fully, I think prepared to do like a suicide by cop thing. I don't think he's gonna trying to kill any stab anyone. I think he's trying to like end it, and they shoot him.
He's on the ground. Benson unloads her gun and goes, your ribs are gonna hurt. Plastic bullets. I'm like, what the fuck those exist? Like, I know there are rubber bullets that they use in like protests and stuff, but if you can like disarm someone with plastic bullets, and like, why are cops not using those like all the fucking time?
Because they want their goal. That's the thing where people talk about police reform, it's like, oh, we have to know they want to kill black people. That is what is happening, because really there are Because when Benson shoots him in his chest, I immediately was like, what the fuck. I can't believe they kill him? And I was thinking about the real world and how this happened. And when she mentioned the rubber bullets, I was like, I thought,
how you thought I go this? They could do this? Yeah, they have the opportunity to do this.
They can if someone has a knife, because like you don't bring a gun a knife to a gunfight, you know what I mean, Like if someone has a knife, for if someone has like a like a metal pipe, like your gun is obviously going to get them. So use rubber bullets, use plastic bullets and that's not showing.
And this is again how we always talk about the fantasy of this show is Benson didn't want to kill him and did what she needed to do to make sure that didn't happen. And so it's the choices that cops make, and they choose not to do that, right, So that's why you're like, why don't they do it? They don't want to do it. They are losers from high school that can't get their dick's hard. Okay, that's what it is, not all Okay, they go to anyways, but that rubber bullet scene is epic.
Yeah, yeah, it's really wild. So they go to visit Valerie, who is still like not doing great. She's about to go into the oer for like, you know, to be operated on, and they tell her Tessa's, okay, we've got Miles in custody.
She wants to know if he's.
Been killed, and then she says, in this sort of deathbed confession that he still raped her. Like Olivia asks again, did he rape you? And she says yes. So then the scene ends like really traumatically. She's cry You just hear her screams of pain as they leave the burn unit. Sabler goes to his house and delivers the divorce papers to his wife because he's clearly now seen too much violence from like husbands against wives.
But it's like like he puts it in the mailbox sneakily. Yeah, he doesn't want to talk to her. He's just like, here you win.
So after the divorce papers, we see Philip Anderson. So this little phil tidbit did not did not go.
Phil little and I was like, he looked like a tall man. Little tidbit.
Yes, this little tidbit like actually pays off where he comes in. He comes into few basically tells Benson that he's been having like a very casual affair with Valerie, so casual that he like barely blinks an eye when it's like she's in the burn unit dying and he's like, we were just banging once in a while.
She goes, aren't you going to visit?
Yeah, And it turns out that he had sex with her the day of this rape, this alleged rape, and didn't and used a condom. So she goes to Stabler's house at like like four am. They meet up downstairs or having coffee and she's like, Valerie wasn't raped, and I'm like, why did they come to that conclusion.
It's possible she.
Was had sex at five o'clock in the evening and then was raped at ten o'clock at night.
I don't understand because was there condom or not? I remember because there was a condom in both cases. There were no fluids, so that's the same. Maybe there was two sperms, but yeah, no, that would have made more sense.
So that's really weird to me that they're just like she lied, like on her deathbed, she lied about being raped, which doesn't really track for me, and it doesn't track for Benson and her personality seems weird.
But I didn't catch this. I was like, I guess they're showing that hatred and divorce after death whatever, But you're right, yeah, she could.
They're just acting like the fact that she had sex with this guy Phil on the same day means that she wasn't raped by her ex husband, And I'm like, I don't know. That seems weird. But she also died twenty minutes ago, so rip Valerie. That's like the most horrible, horrific death I can think of. And then I remember watching this episode when it was on live, when they were sitting outside and he's delivered the worse papers to his wife Stabler and him and Benz are sitting there,
and I go, this is it. They're gonna kiss. I remember that we are happy. No, because I mean, I just I think it's great that the show never had them get together.
I really do.
But I remember so vividly being in my apartment in New York watching this episode and going, oh my god, he's divorced now, Like there's no moral there's no moral quandary, Like they're going to get together now, like and it's crazy, and that obviously doesn't happen.
No, they just go to the diner. Yeah, but I love the New York coffee cups. I love. Yeah, they always have those little Greek diner coffee cups. They drink coffee, and I love their relationship. And I think they had to end it in some sort of upbeater positive way because it's so horrific that like sometimes they end on horrific stuff and you're just like left to be like geez, but they really I think they knew they had to
give us something good because this was like too intense. Yeah, anyway, let's hear let's take advertisers.
Let's take a quick break and cleanse the palate, and then we'll hear about the real.
Horrific crime is based on. We'll be right back, welcome back.
So obviously this is a horrific case, and you can imagine that this is a really horrific case in life. There are two good tidbits that I will start with up top. One is that she is alive. So yes, the real life victim of this, you vet caide, she is alive.
You're saying her name very Russian. What is her fit? Most people would say vat Oh okay, but I love it because your name is Julia, so you're saying it like your own name.
I think it's cool. So Vett is alive, so that's really great. And he got life in prison. Okay, perfect, So he is in jail right now, so we don't have to worry about any of that.
We just wanted everybody to hear that right up top, so you know that this isn't all awful.
Well, and I just want to differentiate because you know, Michael Mitchell dying in the episode was just like really sad, So this is like yeah, I just yeah, she's alive, which is huge. So besides Roger Hartgrave, there is another villain in this dute episode, So we'll get into that. Now. This happened in October, and i'll go a little bit October two thousand and five, but i'll go back when she met him. So, Yvette had a daughter and he had a son, and they met and she said their
relationship was awesome. He was fine, everything was good. This is kind of a classic tale where it went bad after the marriage. Okay, So they got married and it just drugs, alcohol, and he became just verbally abusive. And her sister said anytime she called Ivett, like you can hear in the background him just screaming at her. She said he used to call her a fat beached whale, and just it got worse and worse, and she didn't want her daughter to be a part of this abuse.
She felt guilty for bringing her daughter into this. Parenthood is hard, well, motherhood, I'm a parent, okay, whatever, but I just you know, even in the episode where she gets raped at may or attacked and then the next she waits till the morning after her kid goes to school to call the cops to shield her away, as like mothers just are always thinking about their kids before themselves. And this is another case where she's like, I need to get my daughter out of here now. She they
were going through the divorce. It's very contentious. She does get a protective order. They go back to cor because Roger wants to fight the protective order and the judge does not extend it. And this burn attack happened three weeks after the judge refused to extend the protective order and he is disgusting. I'm getting chills thinking about this fucking judge, Judge Palumbo, and he is on administrative duty and retired, like he did not work on the bench.
But he is disgusting. And there's tapes from that hearing where she's like, I you need to do this, like I am not safe and he goes and I want to be six five, that's not my problem. Go to divorce court for that, Like so dismissive.
They definitely base the judge in the episode on this pace of work, yes.
Because you know it's tough with that show, because you're like, people can't be that bad, and they are, And like, I think we learn a lot from SVU that judges take bribes, judges have their personal van data and like they just have their own shit, and you know, they could also be sexist pieces of garbage. But he's a full psychopath. He dismissed her, and he's never apologized because he doesn't admit he did anything wrong, and he says it's a clerical.
Error, even though he's like on tape denying the extension. He says that it like the denial of extension.
Yeah, because the chief District Court judge disagreed and was like, there is no error. He's like fucking lying, And so he was temporarily removed from the bench. But then the Washington report the Washington Post reported later that he like a Maryland state trooper gave him a ticket and then avoided it because he was a judge, which is illegal. So he was he cannot be on the bench anymore. But the fact to not apologize when something this but this is why the news got such attention. I think
just a public burning like that would get attention. But the fact this is just like, well what actually happened, but one hundred percent, but like just that, what is it called when you want people not a protective order. But all of those, like you know, cops in our judicial system so often wait till something happens and they
have they can't do anything beforehand. And so many women end up being murdered by their spouses and exes and lovers whatever because of this and our fucking archaic court system. So that's another reason this was such big news. So basically, a Vett went to work at her T Mobile store. She worked at a T Mobile store. Roger called Yvette six hours before the attack and said to her, I want to fry you like Crisco grease, and she didn't take that literal, I bet, because he's been verbally abusive
throughout their marriage. So she went to work at T Mobile and he came in and in a soda bottle he had gasoline and doused her with it. She said she didn't even realize it was gasoline because she was so concerned with not causing a scene at her job, so she even then like she was just like didn't want to cause anything. So she's running out the door. So as she's running out the door, he's chasing her,
and this is all caught on camera. Everything Because it's a store, there's fucking security cameras everywhere there you can I mean I did not. I chose not to watch the video. So she's running out of the store. He steps on the back of her shoe to stop her, and she said she felt something on her back and was in full flames, and she ran back into the store because she knew there was a sink and so
she wanted to get to water. So she runs back into the store to get to the sink and she starts putting water on her face, and she says she remembers thinking and feeling, my face is melting. Oh my god. She was burned sixty percent of her body. She barely survived. She barely survived. And all of these injuries have weakened her immune system and she suffers now from PTSD anxiety and fear of fire obviously, and trust and how do
you trust a partner every again. So when this happened, before she was able to go home from the hospital, she had seventeen surgeries before returning home, and it was hell. She's lost her ears, so she doesn't have ears anymore, and she had to wear a plastic face shield for twenty three hours a day, and because the burn and scar tissues obviously hardens. She just really tough. She said, brushing teeth and just simple tasks were so painful and
so tough. And I saw she was on OPRAH in two thousand and six and it was a rough go. I've seen more current video footage of her. What's Wild about evet Is has found a lot of interviews with her talking about other cases where this has happened, like this keeps happening. So I would click on a video thinking she'd be talking about herself and her experience, and it was her talking about all these other women that
this has happened to. So two of the videos I found were her giving advice and talking about this happening and it fucked up. And she says the reason she went on OPRAH and was so vocal and wanted to speak out so much is because her daughter saw all this and she doesn't want and that's all her daughter knows. So she didn't want her daughter to think it's okay or accidentally fall into a pattern thinking, oh, well, this is all I know and this is what a relationship is.
So she really wanted to speak out, to be public and to make sure that her daughter knew this is not what you put up with. So they went to core. The jury took two days and seven hours of deliberating, and he was found guilty of first and second attempted murder, first and second degree attempted murder, and first degree assault. And I don't know this of how many attempted murder people go to jail for life, but they did the right thing. This man should not be in the open.
He should not be a free man. If you can burn your ex well as someone you knew intimately like that, what can you do to strangers or in the future or when you snap? He should not be out in public. He also, which is so weird, was like I wasn't trying to kill her, I was just trying to burn her, Like that is some sort of excuse. And they said throughout the whole court proceedings he was expressionless. He did
not testify in his account. I think they yeah, they had nothing to offer that was in his own defense, you know. And this is a little nice, little fun, fun moment, you know, as fun as you can get with the case this brutal. But when the guilty verdict was read in the court, Robert again made no expression
his face, Roger, I told you. And when the bailiffs or whatever went to take him away, two of her friends that were in the group with Evet in the courtroom went by in unison, which is amazing, and those are the friends that we all deserved. And they said that he turned around but looked at them expressionless, which makes me think, you're so sealed. Yeah, if you don't even have fear of life and pursue or any remorse or anything and nothing, And I'm glad he's fucking behind
bars for everything. And there was just it was all on video and so many witnesses at the store and the job that there's really like no way to get out of this. But yeah, she has a lot of psychological damage. And she was saying that it's really hard because now like her hands will always look burned, but she looks quote unquote normal. I don't know how to discuss this without being like, I don't know, she actually
don't know the proper way to talk about that. She looks as normal and not burned as you can, Like, what, how do you sure? I don't know what to say, but she said that's what's tough is because she looks so normal. She feels she has to explain her psychological drama trauma uh huh, and prove it to people all the time, and she hates talking about it because she feels like she constantly has to prove that she has problems. But of course you're gonna be fucked for life psychological.
I can't imagine getting through something like this unscathed at all. But this is another good moment. She were they're talking about the scars. She's on Oprah, and she said, I know what it feels like to be pretty, So if they don't like it, that's too bad, because she's like, I don't care people think about how I look burned now, and I just love that confidence beautiful where she's like, I know what it is to be hot and I have a great person, Like yeah, I don't need that
validation from you anymore. And you know, there was a complicated journey, and she talks about like people being like, but you're still beautiful, and like believing you're beautiful? And are you still beautiful? And what does beauty? And is it inside outside? I mean it's I really can't imagine living with this sort of trauma and the guilt of like marrying someone and bringing your daughter into that. Like I'm sure there's a lot to it, and I hope
she's getting all them therapy and everything that she needs. Yeah, and fuck Judge Palumbo. And if you ever see him out in public, you can spit on him.
I mean, I it, Yeah, I mean, And it's like what we were talking about before, like this is very common. It seems like not common, but more a lot. It has happened a lot of times that men are just setting it on fire. And I would love if anyone has a psychology background, Like, but I think you were.
About the looks and the ownership and if no one can have, you know, like making you look awful.
Yeah, because like it didn't seem like he didn't he didn't intend to kill her. He intended to just make her suffer.
Oh you know what. One of the other cases you vet was on the news commenting on was actually like a wife and husband and the husband was cheating. She burned the woman, the woman who was like an objectively like megablonde hot babe. Wow. And yeah, fully so it was an ex wife. So it's like, I think you're right in terms of like ruining the looks because this wasn't a husband. This was like a woman jealous. But it's like burn your husband. Don't burn anybody, please, don't
burn anybody. Please. But it's like I hate I hate this equal responsibility. I mean, I'm sure it's denial in lots of things, but like I hate the I hate the thing of like the other woman's to blame. And it's like that other woman owes no one anything, like they're allowed, they're free to fuck who they want. Like the anger should be at the person who's made a commitment to you or to be faithful, who is down right.
The concept of the home wrecker is very problematic. I think it is because even if let's say a woman has super low self esteem, a fucking town slut who's just out there trying to get married men, that is her prerogative and she owes no one nothing, Yeah, you know, like it is the husband's job is to not Yeah. I've definitely gotten to a fights with my friends about this. But it's like I don't care if there's a woman naked,
spread eagle, you cannot enjoy it. You cannot like that woman. Yes, you shouldn't be blaming her when people blame the other woman all the time. It's like she even a little legs open, but like fully naked, being like penetrate me. Like it is up to the person who made a commitment to say no, thank.
You as appetizing as you made that sound, A lot of men would have a hard time saying no.
I do want to say. I would like to just quickly mention the five indicators that are relationship can turn violent. And this is back to what Benson said about like you can see when someone is escalating, you don't. And that's what's so fucked about our courts. They wait till it's too late. So it's possessiveness and jealousy, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, threats to harm you, friends, family, or pets,
and isolation from friends and family. Yeah, if you just think your significant other is just a little jealous or you know, doesn't let oh he doesn't like me going out without you know, like these are signs. Yeah, because I like to go on the m I the asshole Twitter, right, Yes, a lot. And there are cases sometimes where people write and I don't. I'm not privy to it. It's just like a dude, or it's I'm just I keep wanting to be gender neutral and like respectful and like lesbians.
I'm sure can be violent too, but I am just speaking in such heteronormative terms. But a lot of times, like a guy's acting weird, and then all the comments are people being like these are morning signs, get the fuck out, this is not okay out And I'm like, he just said this little thing, or he just won't
let her do that. But people that know this, or have dealt with this, or have seen it, or are educated in this, you know that those are indicators that could happen later once you're married, Like he didn't get violent, Like he didn't do this till after marriage, right, So just to make sure that you're not like, oh my boyfriend's jealous, it's cute, haha, or like he doesn't let me go bowling, or he doesn't like those things are clues and to make sure that you're being treated like
an autonomous, amazing humane. But the thing that's scary is people that are abusive are master manipulators, and they're able to be like members of the community and positive and happy, and so people don't believe it, and there are good at manipulating. I've been manipulated before, and it's like they're good at it or Benson always talks about this, how like predators know who to victimize. They know that you've been raped before, that you have problems, or your dad
didn't like Okay, y are in tune tonight. So don't feel guilt, shame or embarrassment if you are in a situation that ends up being abusive or violent, because these people are good hiding it and manipulating you to think that.
Well, thank you for taking us through that very harrowing case.
And you know what, I'm just so thankful that she survived such a drawa and Jesus.
Okay, well, let's get to our guest interview.
Our guest today was a little bitty child in this show, which is amazing, and now she's a full fledged R and B hip hop musical superstar.
Yeah even younger when she was on Star Search, the only person to ever get all tends from the judges.
And what I love is I did you know. I was listening to all her YouTube videos and the first person in all of history I would say only positive comments. I did not see one negative comment on her videos. Every video was like she should be more famous. She's incredible voice of an angel. She is gifted, like there was not one not nice thing. She directs a lot of her videos. She dances, she acts, she sings, and while we talked to her, this was our first time she was in a makeup chair.
She was a girl on the go talking to us about to shoot a music video. Because she is now a member of an R and B duo called Juwan and Tiffany stylized Juwan x Tiffany with Juwan Harris. They released a debut single called Finally in October, and they're gearing up to release their first project in early twenty twenty one. Guys, we have with us today from the episode Burned, we have Tessa. Please welcome Tiffany Evans.
Hey girlkay, girl bye.
As a New Yorker. When you got the call that you got the part in Lawn Order SVU. Were you a fan of the show, familiar with the show. Was it like a big deal when you book that part?
You know, I was a kid, Yeah, I do. I do remember seeing it on TV like all the time, and I just I just knew at that point, I really I really loved I really loved to act and I'm like, Okay, you know, honestly, if I get this part, then that makes me like the real deal Hollywood. You know what I'm saying, Like people are gonna take me serious as an actress. So yeah, I really wasn't familiar with the show, like as far as like watching it or whatever, but as far as knowing about it and
how important it was to people, I knew. I knew that much, and it made me want to go for it.
Now, your episode is pretty intense and has haunted us for over a decade. Now, how do you does? Like usually when you do a TV thing, you want to get together with your friends and watch it, but it's such a serious episode, Like, yeah, how did you feel on set? Did they shield you away because you were young? And yeah, all of those questions and when you did you watch it when you were that young?
It's so funny because the Holy experience was really really cool, Like I was on set with some pretty serious actors. Yeah, Like they take that acting business very serious.
So I kind of got to.
Channel channel my own emotions and and bring more of my own feelings out into the character. Because my parents at the time they were kind of going through nothing like the storyline, but they were they were going through a nasty ending divorce and so yeah, so my parents they didn't really see eye to eye at the time, and they were really like, you know, I mean, she should still do the role, you know, even though it's kind of hitting.
Close to home. Blair Underwood is like undeniably hot, but he has to be your dad. Yeah, I had a crush on him.
I was like, wait, it's just like I mean, I know, he wasn't paying me any attention at all. Like I was just like, oh my gosh, like having daydreams about him.
Yeah.
And then your mom is like the most gorgeous woman in the world, Like you literally had the hottest parents I've ever seen on an SVU episode.
They were gorgeous and they had a beautiful child too.
So yeah, yeah, So did you have any like memories. I know that you were like fourteen or fifteen when you did this, so I know it was a long time ago, but do you have any like specific memories from like, I don't know, did Ice Chase say something funny to you or like anything with Blair Underwood or like Michael Michelle or anything like that.
And our Queen Mariska Hargitay, Yeah, and our queen. Can I be honest, yes, yeah, yeah.
So basically I think ice team was like, who's this little kid. I don't think he was really focused on me.
That was probably before it was because it was before he had his little baby Chanel, Like now he hasn't been now he has a little daughter.
So I'm sure he'd be a lot nicer to a kid on that.
I'm sure too because he I think he was just looking at me like, yeah, she's just here to do her job or whatever. But you know, I think I'm just gonna be really, really honest. Everyone was super serious because of the nature of the production in the storyline. Yeah, and so I do remember Blair would be more friendlier. He was friendlier. He had a calm spirit, but he
stayed in his dressing room most of the time. And when he did come out, like he smiled and he would ask me if I'm ready, or you know, if I need any help going over my lines.
Oh that's nice, Michael Michelle's.
She was very serious. I mean, and I understand why, I really do. As I got older, I'm like, you know what, they had to be a character.
Yeah, and She's like, that's based on a real story. So like, I'm sure they wanted to like, you know, be respectful to like the real well.
And I'm also thinking about the scene at the end where he has the gun and all the cops are around and you're in like Central Park, Like that must have been intense.
Oh, that was intense. That that was intense. It almost felt like the real thing, you know what I'm saying. Like I was just like wow, like all of these people around it. Okay, I do remember being really really cold.
Yeah, it seemed cold. It seemed like a cold time of year.
I think it was in the winter time that we shot it. I'm not sure, but I remember it being really really cold. And I remember rehearsing my lines with Blair Underwood, and I remember him just like, when you need to cry, you know, I need you to pull that emotion from the experience, the experiences that you've had in the past.
That impacted you the most.
And he was like, so, think of something that really really hurts you. Like it could be you're losing a loved one, it could be you know, maybe your parents have gone through something similar to this in which they were like just not super similar, just the divorce part.
Yeah yeah, not the violence. I'm sure you're right, but.
It's just being really nasty with them partying ways. And so I'm like, you know what, I'll think about my my my grandma passing away, and I'll think about my parents kind of going through this nasty divorce and I wish it was just I wish I wasn't in the middle of it. Wow.
That like changes that I feel like, if I go back and watch the episode now, I'm going to be like so much more sad for you.
It's like you're going through it.
Yeah, yeah, and that's that's the that's the sad part about it. But you know, honestly, I was able to pull my emotion out and kind of just feel like, Okay, Tessa, Like I can only imagine what you're going through because you know, your mom is claiming that she's been you know, violated, and your dad is someone that you love and he's saying that he didn't do it, and you want to
protect them. You want to protect the both of them because you love the both of them, and it's like you're being forced to choose, and I'm just like, man, like I can relate to that in a sense, because I do feel like, you know, my parents are kind of like, you know, forcing me to choose a little bit because one is unhappy with the other, and I
love the both of them. And so yeah, that moment was pretty intense, and they had like a whole bunch of people around staring, and it was just I thought it was really cool though.
Overall, Yeah, I bet, I mean, you slay your performance. So yeah, you're amazing, very good. I hope you, darlings made time to act again. So I was watching some of your music videos and you directed them, And this might be a stretch, but did you learn anything on set at SVU that kind of you kept with you to help you and you're the number one on the call sheet or directing.
I got a lot of information as far as just you know, the call sheet, how to work a call sheet, how the production assistance work. The director, you know, he's very like he goes over the shot list, and it's that's something that you have to do when you're working on music videos.
You have to have a shot list.
There's so many moving parts and continuity is extremely important and that's something that you have to also consider when you're directing a music video like so that the themes connect to each other. But it's a lot of hard work. I love grinding like that, like I love being a part of a production. I love seeing things on paper and then actually coming to life. Like I think that's really really cool.
It sounds like at the moment, you're mostly focusing on your music, do you, But are you still doing acting like here and there on the side, or is it mostly like music right now?
I love music, you know, I love acting. It's just really wild because I can sing and act.
But I really did have to.
Take some time out to focus on the music because that's my first love and I wanted to get, you know, my team together. I wanted to get all of the key people together to make what my what my dreams are for my music to happen. But as far as acting, I know that I'm gonna have to take the same amount of time to put into acting because both worlds
are very very busy. Let me just say that both worlds are very very busy, and you can you can be a singer and an actress at the same time, but the focus is intense, especially for acting, and I don't ever want to get on camera or you know, on a film, and people are like, oh man, she's a great she's a great artist with who she cannot act she's very stiff.
So I would I would.
Want my focus to be really like centered. If I'm gonna if I'm gonna act, then I'm going to focus on acting. And so I feel like I have to take some time out for that, just like I've done with singing.
Did you grow up in a creative home? How did you find out that you could like sing and act? I watched your star searches there. Incredible voice.
So you're so cute and you're like so passionate, like so common, and you like sing like an adult.
You they're so sweet.
I was such a baby. Yeah, that's crazy. You guys watched all of those videos. I still get embarrassed.
I can't even watch them. Know you were so and like you're you're like the only thing that was weird to me is why that one of the judges was Ben Stein, the guy from the Eye Drop commercial, And I was like, what's he doing there?
I know, I know, I remember him too. And they were all nice though. They were all very nice and honestly, like I think I was kind of like oblivious. I really didn't know what was going on exactly. I just knew I was a kid who wanted to sing and who wanted to eat and you know, go to Hollywood. That was my first That was first on my list, Like I told my dad when I was nine years old, I was like that, you know, I want to go
to Hollywood. I really want to be like j Lo, And so that was the first place I went to. It's crazy how it manifested.
Wow, that was amazing. I'm sort of starstruck.
She has like twenty million views on one of her YouTube videos with Sierra Well.
I love glam. I like that she was going to make up donel'le talking. She's like, I'm a girl, I'm a go in a pandemic. I gotta go. Yeah. I can't wait to listen to her new stuff. And it makes sense. I mean, obviously we want dirt from the set and how everyone was just high fiving and like eating cakes together, but it is a serious episode. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if the vibe does change from episode to episode.
Very true, Yeah, because it's like, hmm, I'm trying to think of who else we've talked to.
I'm not evenna say anyth because I don't even know the order, but like, there's just something so scary about the burned, the end the burning. Like obviously the show is about sexual assault, like there's every episode's pretty hard, but there's something about that ending that lingers and scares me. I really well.
I think it's because there's almost like two endings of that episode. There's like the scream when they're walking out of the burn unit, where you're like, oh my god, that's so horrific, and then there's the second ending later where you find out that she dies, So it's like a double trauma whammy.
It must have been so crazy to have your parents be going through a divorce and then being on the set of like the worst divorce you could ever imagine.
Yeah, yeah, totally as like a teen. Yeah, I'm glad she was able to pull from it because she was really good, and.
I'd like to I think I learned that I would love to be in a movie with Blair Underwood and have him coach me, give me some acting tips.
You'd love to have Robert crom Sex in the city give you some acting tips. I would, Yeah, I guess it's like I don't know what the I don't know what the what we've learned is here because it's like no one can anticipate that their ex is going to douse them with like gas and like.
The thing, yes, but the thing is Kara, she did and she begged for a restraining order and continue in real life. Yeah, so in yeah, you're right in real life. So I think the lesson we kind of know, but I wish everyone else would learn is we need to change the way.
To process women when they talk about domestic violence, they're not exaggerating.
Yeah, and like we shouldn't wait until something bad happens. And I voted this last selection. Voting for all the judges was so fucked up. I was researching all the judges in Illinois. One had sexual assaults accusations against him, called a prosecutor a bit. I've just one judge put two people away unfairly for decades for crimes they didn't command. I was reading about like probably fifty judges, and so many of them are shady. I feel like, take polity
out a judge. I don't know what is the answer, but like get old way gross people off the benches. I don't know, I don't know what we have to do.
But if you're listening and you're an old, white, gross judge, we common for you.
But like, yeah, we need better judges, a better court system, and maybe this podcast will fix everything. Yes, I also learned iced hated children until we had channaw.
So for this week's what would Sister Peg Do, where we direct you towards a resource. We wanted to get your eyes on the Hotline, which is www dot the Hotline dot org, which is a place you can go for domestic violence resources and help. And I'm actually really
impressed with this website. Like the minute you go to it, it gives you like a security alert in case your Internet usage is being monitored, like it's very It gives you can live chat, you can talk, get a phone number, and it's the National Domestic Violence Hotline and it is of coursempletely confidential.
Next week we will be covering iconic episode Babes Season ten, episode six. Please watch along with us Hulu Peacock. Buy some DVDs while you're at it. It's the holiday season.
I bet they're all on super discount now because it's after Christmas. Go out and buy all twenty two seasons of SVU on DVD and we'll see you guys next week.
That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
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